This is what you hear a lot about this with the UFO abduction stuff.
You know, one neat solution that would explain everything away would be mind control, right?
You have a guy who's being able to play the bull like a video game.
You made an amazing documentary called Mind Traveler about this very mysterious mid-century scientist named Andrea Puharic.
And you've made this amazing documentary on him.
And I appreciate you being here.
I appreciate you having me.
I guess you could start it at Northwestern University.
Have you heard of this?
Yeah, you could look it up.
I don't know what it did exactly or, you know, what like, yeah, the day-to-day or anything.
Which, you know, is a very prestigious school.
And I think also Jalen Hynek was, you know, his astronomer blue book was Northwestern too.
Do you know who that is?
You could do an episode on him.
He's like, you know, the Puharich on steroids, sort of, back then at least.
He was very interested in like, you know, altering drugs, psychedelic drugs, mind altering stuff.
But he sort of took Puharich under his wing and, from what I understand, was the first person who introduced him to, you know, whatever weird science, if you want to call it that.
Because he was one of these guys, McCullough, who would, you know, on his off time, do all these like, strange experiments with radio frequencies and that kind of stuff.
And I think like, in the academic setting, he had to, you know, put on a suit and tie and like, not talk about that, basically.
And, you know, I know you had Annie Jacobson on, like she's in the film.
And she was trying to find records on McCullough because, you know, it was really interesting.
But in those letters, there were letters from McCullough back to these agencies saying, you know, you should check this guy Puharich out.
You know, he's, I work with him.
I think he was probably like, you know, in his 70s or 80s or something.
So, you know, he passed on.
And he sort of had this moment back then where he's like, I'm either going to choose the traditional academic path or I'm going to choose the, you know, path of ESP telepathy.
So, you know, it's this huge place.
He's got like a staff, you know, all in the thing with Puharich.
What did you figure out?
Well, it was all, you know, government funded at that time.
You get army, you name it.
And you think their preliminary interest was mind control, telepathy, anything beyond the purview of kind of normal materialist reductionist physics that might be able to be weaponized or confer a tactical advantage to the United States?
I mean, he speaks a lot and we, you know, we've uncovered like hundreds of tape recordings of his that no one's ever heard.
And so, you know, he talks a lot about like, they were just obsessed at that time with like, what if this were real?
Do you think Hal Puthoff was aware of Puharich's kind of foundation that he set with remote viewing?
Because the story is that, you know, official American remote viewing kind of started with Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ and Stanford Research Institute.
I'm not trying to make bold statements, but that's just, that's not, you know, true.
If you look, if you're looking at it from a like research, when did this start?
I mean, even all the time we spent on the film, it's, I still haven't looked at it at all, but they basically detail the experiments going on, which were, you know, your classic ESP stuff, you know, like the cards, all that.
And so, yeah, I think they were, they, you know, intelligence community, so forth, were just very intrigued with what was going on there.
So it's a combination of kind of, you know, these military factions and then these kind of blue blooded elites.
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You know, can somebody pick up on what's written on a letter in the other room?
And then he obviously built a Faraday cage there, and I think, you know, was one of the first people, as far as I understand, doing ESP tests in a Faraday cage, where basically he would put people who claimed to be psychic in the cage.
And obviously, Aldous Huxley is known probably best for a lot of his science fiction work, but also, you know, the Doors of Perception, where he talks about his experience with Mescaline.
And then, you know, if you really get into the maybe deeper kind of architectures of his thinking, like in perennial philosophy, he's like clearly this kind of deep esotericist.
And, you know, what's the book?
Have you read that?
The premise is basically, you know, and this was also the research he was doing at the Roundtable, was, you know, taking a certain type of mushroom.
In this instance, the Amanita muscaria, you know, gives people ESP abilities, and they did extensive research on that there.
But on the cover of that book, you know, Aldous Huxley gives a blurb for Buharic and calls him, you know, the greatest mind in parapsychology.
It's the kind of archetypal, you know, emoji on all of our, you know, cell phones or iPhones, at least.
But it also, I believe, John Marco Allegro, who was, you know, a scholar of various, you know, ancient languages, he came to the very heretical conclusion that the Eucharist itself was an Amanita muscaria mushroom.
And that that whole thing had some kind of hermetic meaning that, you know, isn't just maybe a literal reincarnation or something.
You know, from what I understand, when Buharic's book came out, it was, you know, it's now sort of like a cult classic.
But at the time, it was like, you know, controversial because basically people just didn't believe in what he was writing.
And that, I think, kind of kick-started the, you know, way people looked at Buharic as being, you know, kind of like a kook.
People like Albert Hoffman, Karl Ruck, and Stanislav Grof, who thought of themselves as creating what they called the new Eleusis, based on kind of, you know, past mystery rituals, the Eleusinian mystery rituals.
And they involved Urgot and psychedelic substances and, you know, these sort of, you know, Persephone's quest style.
You know, you go down, you descend to the underworld and you come back up and you, you know, you gain knowledge of your primordial soul.
And so, Buharic was, you know, he was amidst this backdrop.
He was, he was sort of on his, on his come up, which, you know, maybe isn't a coincidence.
They said, well, it's hard to explain to you.
We're not personalities as you think of personalities.
The part of Buharic's story where I think things sort of change in his life is when, you know, this instance happens when they first channel the nine, which was in 52.
You may have heard this name.
And, you know, they're like, what's going on here?
And he goes into a trance and he just starts speaking, you know, saying, you know, we are the nine and where we're coming through to you now.
Because, you know, this was, as you know, it took like almost 10 years.
Or somebody would say, hey, have you seen this?
His version of the story is this guy, they just randomly came in, fell into a trance, no context, you know, never mentions it.
You know, there was this huge moment in his life.
Or do you think it was some front?
around exotic electromagnetic wavelengths that can cause, you know, thoughts to be implanted
And so he was friends with this woman, Marianne Shenefield, this, you know, allegedly amazing
And he said, you know, I met Buharic once.
He literally told me to show it up at his house and said, hey, you know, yes or no, will you let me interview you?
The general message is this idea that they are wanting to help the human race, you know, basically not destroy itself.
This, you know, goes on way through the 70s when Buharic, the nine come back.
It was a lot of, like, you've probably heard a lot about how they, sometimes these channelers are, uh, you know, what is it called?
And a lot of, like, write this down because you'll understand later what it means sort of stuff.
It's, it's really, I mean, maybe I'm sure you might know somebody who could look at this.
They would say the nine, they would say, you know, okay, look, you're contacting us through a psychic.
But if you want a clearer feed of a clearer transmission, you have to put the psychic in a Faraday cage.
And on top of that, you should tweak the Faraday cage and build it this way and use this type of metal and use this.
And it did because you can hear the tapes.
You know, because like, again, there's a lot of it that you could just say, oh, you know, this could have been made up or whatever.
You know, copper, they're, they're big on copper.
You need to use that.
And it needs to be, you know, these dimensions, I mean, really specific stuff and they would follow it.
And you see the results get better as far as their channeling.
You see the results get better.
And that again, to me, I just thought that's, that's, that's interesting because it's not just sort of like, you know, spiritual mumbo jumbo.
When you say that it's getting better, it's just like more, more gets channeled, like more.
And the other thing too, was again, it was this copper, this thing with copper, where they would also say, okay, what you need to do is you need to get the, this is really crazy.
And his story, but they would say, you know, you need to have copper touching your, your skin.
And so you would, you would need some sort of like bracelet or something that would kind of like constantly be touching your skin in order again, for like the, the transmission to be better.
And what's crazy is, uh, one of the space kids that I met and that we interviewed for the film, she whipped out this, uh, this was, you know, only a couple of years ago.
And that's the other thing to me, you know, being a little skeptical, I was like, well, someone of Puharic's, uh, you know, academic abilities, like clearly he, he, he wouldn't take the time.
And the energy, like to look into this stuff as deep as he did, you know, like he like obsessed over this, he would go meet other academics.
And, you know, he really like was obsessive about this being legitimate.
And the only, you know, evidence I, I have is Buharic's own writing, cause we have all of his journals and he writes this in his journals where he literally says like this psychic would just blur it out.
You know, 11 o'clock, you know, tonight and they'd go out and they would see an orb.
And he, he, he did many experiments where he allegedly took photos, which of course, you know, weren't in the big stash of photos we had from back then.
This would have been, you know, early fifties again.
These people who seem to attract, uh, these orbs and it would make sense because those people also seem to be sort of high psi or, you know, you know, have higher kind of mind matter capabilities or whatever.
To make a long story short, there's a seance that's held in, uh, late 52, early 53. I think it was the New Year's Eve of 52 to 53. And there are nine people involved in the seance. Now, these are not just some casual nine people you pick up, like, you know, your neighbors or something, right? This was a DuPont and an Astor and a Forbes. I mean, everybody that represents the, the blue blooded Brahmins of American society, old money people, were at a seance, a free
Is that Arthur Young? Arthur Young. So Arthur Young is there with his wife. His wife is Ruth Forbes Payne Young. Right. She had a lot of names. She was excessively nomenclatured. And so you have, you know, Ruth Forbes Payne Young. She's a Forbes.
So in that seance with the, you know, these kind of blue blooded elites that prove her itches convening,
And then ends up, you know, maybe not being the lone gunman, but, you know, attempting JFK's life.
And in her home, she opens her door to some refugees, you know, people who are recent immigrants
And so I wonder sometimes, was it all good or was it bad? I mean, I don't think, you know,
And you know who was leading the whole project?
You know what that sounds like?
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This could be as simple as, you know, how horrible that the president was shot or it could have
you know, certain groups of people to believe in something and to what extent?
They think any sort of like real channeling or anything is just, you know, is fake.
And that it was all set up as this sort of psychological warfare experiment, which, you know, there's reasons to think that that could be true.
But that's where a lot of that, you know, starts.
You know, I think that's possible.
But you think about like when did MKUltra start?
But really, the Korean War is like when, you know, conventionally it's dated to.
And it's not like I'm hiding something because I'm worried that, you know, I'm going to be a monitor.
I just don't, you know, I know what was in the archives.
It's, you know, an hour on the train North of the city, you know, mad men, of course, the show, like I didn't even realize all the characters, they all live in Ossining.
So it's a very, you know, wealthy area.
He was very like, you know, distraught about that.
This one being the really the first, but it was sort of the roundtable to where like all of a sudden he just has this company and this and the and these employees and this fund, you know, all of a sudden it's just, you know, kind of expensive to have a big office in New York City.
And it was this breakthrough medical discovery, which, you know, go figure goes completely quiet.
But that's when he first starts this whole, you know, radio frequency stuff, voices in the head kind of stuff, which again was under this, you know, we're researching on deaf people.
We're doing this, you know, in a medical sense.
But that's when these, you know, men in suits show up.
And I think people don't realize a lot of that MKUltra stuff happened much earlier, but they were doing this work in 62, 63 of like send, basically sending messages to, to people's heads, you know, and, and we have footage.
The people from the Atomic Energy Commission write very clearly in letters we found, like we went, Annie Jacobson talks about it, I think in her book, like one of the guys is like, I don't believe you, you know, test me and just, and, and, and did the test on himself and it worked.
And then it goes, it goes dark and Intellectron closes and all of a sudden it's onto the next sort of, you know, mysterious company.
I haven't looked, but I just think, you know, if you want to go there, it's like, like Lavenda says the whole connection there at the round table.
I think that summer, right before JFK was assassinated, he, she did not want, you know, that at all on record.
I think Mary Bancroft like started to talk about it and he like, you know, he kind of acted like he didn't know what was going on when like, you know, he w he would have reacted earnestly if, if, if, if he hadn't, he clearly did know what was going on.
And obviously Dulles was probably, you know, among a very short list of people.
If you, you know, if you, the intersection of capabilities, motivation to, to take out JFK, Dulles has to be on anybody's short list.
I mean, like 95%, you know, like you have letters between Jolly West and Sydney Gottlieb, who's definitely the kind of archivist.
architect of MK ultra, you know, and, and Jolly West was, you know, UCLA psychiatry, but clearly very involved in operation midnight climax and maybe brainwashed Charles Manson.
And then Jack Ruby, you know, who was fully lucid, but just didn't remember having shot Lee Harvey Oswald talks about Jews dying outside of his cell and just like literally cracks.
Um, so very, very strange, you know, possible connections.
Do you realize the fantastic possibilities if from the outside we could modify the inside?
Are you going to be there?
I mean, there's some people I met during the process of this who were like, don't, don't even go there and don't talk about the connection you had with Delgado.
But, you know, I, I was interested to know.
You have a guy who's being able to pacify a bull and play the bull like a video game.
And if, if, if, if in the early sixties, we had chips that could control animals and you had heirs to MK ultra, like MK often.
It's like, of course, you know, we're going to be way more advanced on that stuff.
It's one of those things you don't even want to think about it.
Cause the second you do think about it, you get into reality being far weirder than we could ever imagine.
So, yeah, if you think, okay, they're putting an implant in the head of a bull, like you say, basically remote controlling the thing.
Why wouldn't you try to do that to a human being?
I mean, why, why wouldn't you?
Like all there's all these records of the round table, you know, tapes, photos, everything.
And all of a sudden you get to the sixties.
It's like nothing, really, very little documentation, very little, you know, photographic evidence of what he was up to.
And the other thing too, not to cut you off is I I've, with all this stuff in this film, I've gone to like the ends of the earth to try to track down.
You would not find the only thing I ever found was there was a guy, a pretty interesting guy actually.
And in his archives at, uh, Berkeley, there was like a couple documents that had, you know, in Electron letterhead and it was like correspondence.
It was again, it was just like records and sort of like, you know, financial records.
You know, so, so there's just, this place did not exist.
Well, it's, I mean, now I feel like it's one of these things that's slowly shifting, you know, and I think more and more people are going to start to recognize the fact that MK ultra had a role, not only in the JFK assassination, but in the RFK assassination, you mentioned Sirhan Sirhan.
He's like, you know, I must kill him, must kill, you know, sort of thing.
Um, and you have RFK junior now is head of the FDA.
I think he thinks that, you know, MK ultra was involved.
You know, this guy, William Jennings Bryan, not to be confused with the 1890s.
And, um, so I, you know, I, I think these things are going to start to come out that, uh, MK ultra was far more pervasive than, than we ever realized.
And there's even a book called, I don't know if you know about this book, the controllers by Martin Cannon.
Uh, as you know, a lot of the guests I sit down with, whether they're physicists, intelligence officers, people who've worked inside black programs are operating at a really impressive level mentally.
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And people being tricked into saying, oh, you like this is your guardian angel or whatever.
I mean, there's just no question about it, you know, that he had.
You can see, you know, she's in the other room.
He has his device that he invented in the early sixties called the TD 100, which I've told you about.
And, you know, it's kind of like a situation where if you're exposed to this frequency, it's at a certain wavelength that only you can hear and anyone else around you can't hear.
And you could, you could, you could send or implant thoughts to a person.
You played a tone and then you would.
And you've probably heard of this as the tooth implant.
You could send signals to someone secretly.
It was basically a radio receiver that would be, I guess at one point it was Puharich kind of says it as though you could slip on some sort of thing.
What do you call it?
It would pick it up here and it would send it through the nerves of the face that would basically connect to whatever area in your brain you register, you know, sounds.
And so you could be again in, you could clearly see them doing this.
And you can clearly see they're able to do it.
So you can imagine if the research continued, at what length can this go?
But so the first part of it was the tooth where you could send the message to the tooth implant, hear it in the head.
And the second part was an offshoot of that where basically, from what I understand, you sort of just bypass the whole tooth thing.
And it's a very specific radio frequency that I guess you can't tune into like on a normal frequency band or a radio.
Do you know what frequency?
But it was this idea that again, you would bypass the tooth and the, and the, and the frequency would essentially just be sent directly to the head and be picked up in that same area that the tooth was essentially connecting to.
Just to also substantiate what you're saying to the audience who might think we're crazy.
And so he would like de facto be able to hear his own playing without actually kind of, you know, hearing it through his ear canal.
That was his first, um, aha moment is that they got a mental patient, a guy who claimed he was hearing voices, but his family's convinced he's, he's, you know, sane.
So, you know, can you check him out?
And that kicked off like all of this research where it said, okay, well, if that's possible, like what else is possible with that basic idea that that's, you know, real.
Yeah. And if you can bypass the ear canal with vibration, whatever is processing the audio ultimately in the brain, we know that you can turn molecular mass into frequency.
Yeah. Could you then use some sort of electromagnetic, you know, radio wave or some wave that connects directly to the brain and that kind of gets in a freaky territory because you end up in sort of psychic warfare, you know, that's ubiquitous or whatever in widespread.
Like, it's kind of weird to think about, but I mean, if you're saying that was possible back then, it's just wild. And then you mentioned sign waves. I just interviewed a guy named Dan Sherman.
Yeah. And you texted me when you saw the interview because you said it, you felt like it kind of comported with a lot of the stuff you had been studying around.
In the early nineties around messages he's downloading, but it, maybe it does beget the question, you know, is the Sherman stuff genuinely, you know, extraterrestrial or were people beaming messages that were extraterrestrial to test the veracity of the messaging or whatever through him. And I don't know, you know, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't think he was lying. And I think the program is real.
And he said, I'm going to play a tone and I want you to mentally hum that tone. And he said that you will eventually feel a connection. The line will change.
Yeah. Do you think that it was kind of a development from, um, you know, what you were looking into with Puhar?
I'd have to imagine it was. And that's always the question, you know,
You said there are a lot of sine waves. He literally says I had to flatten a sine wave.
That's why I, that's why I reached out because again, like for me, a lot of this was, okay, I have all this information. I'm not a, you know, I'm not a, a physicist. I'm not a, most of this stuff, but I'd have to imagine it's connected because it, um, Puharic, the way this machine worked as well, had something to do with specific sine waves. Very, very specific.
You know, he was always talking about sine waves. And so I just, I can't imagine that that wasn't some sort of early interpretation of, of what, what he was talking about.
And you have this machine that you like, where you like, you're matching tones and stuff. I mean, that sounds exactly like Sherman.
Yeah. It's all tone. It's all tones. And then the thing with the machine is again, um, and like you said, sounding crazy, like for a long time making this film, you know, like I had to,
So it's not just like, I'm reading a report, you're hearing it. So I'm hearing, you know, these channeling sessions, I'm hearing these experiments.
He's doing an electron and, you know, you can just tell something's going on, something strange. And so you're right.
You're right. I mean, I think like if that was happening in 60, 61, 62, I mean, I don't know. And this gets transitions into the Uri Geller stuff, which I believe is very much involved in that same sort of research.
But, um, again, this was supposed to be this breakthrough, you know, medical device where, where people who are deaf can, can hear, you know, the, the, think about what we could do with this.
But it just goes like, again, he never talks about it. No, no one in his family. Oh yeah. I wonder whatever happened to that. Like you would think that with such an amazing discovery, like something would have come of it.
And Intellectron is still happening then. I mean, from what I understand, like it was still very much, you know, an operating company. So he's going to Israel to meet Uri Geller while he's still very much involved in the research of essentially sending messages to people.
And he gets to Israel. He discovers Uri Geller. I mean, I think a lot of people know this story, but you know, Geller was, was allegedly this very, uh, amazing psychic guy who could bend, bend spoons with his mind and read people's minds and do all sorts of things like that. He could like, uh, hover his hand over a watch and the, and it would, uh, the hands would move and, and all these kinds of things. And so.
Do you believe he could actually do those things or do you think that was stage magic or.
And you.
You know, the easy debunks on things like that.
And he did do it, but, um, he, so Buharic, you know, again, the story goes, Buharic was kind of smitten with, with Geller and oh my God, this guy's, you know, an amazing psychic.
But he, uh, he, uh, has this whole episode in Israel before he even brings him back to the United States, where he basically hypnotizes Geller and, you know, the nine come through.
And all of a sudden, after however many years, you know, 53 from when Dr. Vinod did it to, to 71.
And so Buharic is, you know, shot up, apparently shocked.
And, you know, I can't believe this is happening.
You know, there's all these tape recordings we have of, of this, uh, going down and that kind of kickstarts again.
And all of a sudden they're like back, you know, and he's channeling them, channeling them and he's communicating with them.
And so one could assume that Uri Geller was a, you know, experiment in that way when the nine just so happened to reappear all those years later.
Have you found any connections between him?
What, what were the connections besides you're a yeller, obviously?
uh he just got here he's leaving he picked this bag up he did you know in the exact years he's um
write these letters to her all the time it's very clear that they were close you know he spoke with
u.s um mind can you know mind control program that was happening at aberdeen proving grounds
which isn't you know is an is an army base and i read that and you know again what what do you make
uh for for the israelis and and he also was always there you know that's the other thing like yes he
went to to to investigate geller but you know he was even through the 80s like well after him and
yariv who was i think the head of army intelligence very you can look him up i mean he was constantly
um high up there so a lot of red flags nothing again no concrete you know document or something
i'm still thinking okay what what was really going on there you know fascinating man what what do you
this idea of nine extraterrestrial beings or what do you think that is is he is he calling in something
that exists in reality these nine you know entities or is he creating those entities synthetically
stories right so when he went to israel for the first time in some lecture uh we have he said oh you
that he was cia that's why you went but in this lecture in fact twice in two separate lectures
buharach when he he kind of tells the story to an audience you know and he says oh yeah they just you
know bought me a ticket this foundation so you know again a little thought in my mind where i'm like
okay who's who's telling the truth you know yeah i think it's obvious but um right with the nine i mean
so yeah it all did come from from uh hypnosis that was the protocol it was a very you know your typical
countdown from a certain number um once you get there you know you're in a state where they can
because you can you i mean you can hear it i mean again this isn't like speculation like on the tapes
you can very much hear him saying you know is is it the not you know the type of like leading
questions i think that a lot of people say oh you know you can't trust a hypnosis if they're doing
this and it was it was it was that it was very leading questions and are you sure it's not the nine
and oh actually yeah you're right it is and that kind of thing but what's so confusing is there's
you know not leading at all and the nine would still come through yeah so that's interesting yeah
this stuff but yes he was also involved in yeah very by his own own admits you know involved in
everything away yeah you know one neat solution that would explain everything away would be you can
aliens reverse engineer like so many things um but then you you get into like the facts and the
facts are just weirder than you think often and it's it's like well i actually think there might be
interesting because his uh research into you know elf extremely low frequency you know that was
was like the only uh you know frequency that could do that you know they went on to use that frequency with like
submarine experiments so that he believed was like the frequency that could carry you know audio information to
somebody's head uh and he was very concerned that the soviets had similar capabilities yeah i mean there's you know project
pandora which started in i think the the 60s which you know going back to intellectron that was right around the time this
was happening which was you know yeah the same thing the russians had these sort of radio frequency weapons which which you know they did i mean that's all
proven proven at that time i mean this is like pre havana syndrome stuff and so coincidentally you know
you know we need to experiment on a real you know human being with some of this stuff and again it goes
back to this mk ultra the you know lsd you know giving lsd to unwitting people like at a certain point
with these kinds of experiments you need to you know do it on a real person or else you're never going to
know how someone in you know the real world will react and i think geller you know was was part of
sudden he wakes up and he's in austin new york which is you know however 50 miles or whatever
geller oh yeah this happened and the nine did this basically you since you were questioning their
ability and their power they said well we're going to do something that will make you you know never
puharic went to to actually get a look you know again people don't remember this was like 70s like
get a load of film you know put it in the put it in the camera film get the get the film transferred
and and be like hey look i actually filmed when you right after you flew into the window and here it is
it's it's proof so you know he's he's doing that but i i that was just one instance of me thinking
if you can get somebody to believe that they had been teleported and smacked i mean what else could
you get someone to believe and i just think it was all part of that type of experimentation and
manipulation so you know he he was doing it and i think a lot of the geller stuff was just like okay
we need a guinea pig here to to see if some of these wild ideas work you know so wild i think there's a
somebody close to buharic in the 60s specifically really yeah his assistant the same one i told you
about who made the jfk comment said yeah he he talked to him you know all the time why so that was
yet another person who was just kind of part of his you know rolodex but yeah i think geller said
heavy says or you touch this tell me what you feel now i put my hand on it and i say verna this is
not from here he says you're right this is a piece of a ufo that crashed on our planet uh it's over it's
here and he goes how did you know so you know something it's so interesting the other thing too
geller is fun to read you know in and of itself is because it's like it's just like a cool crazy sci-fi
book if anything yeah even though it's supposed to be you know non-fiction but he claims that this
something like a pen and basically said you know oh these these beings told me to keep this because
this will forever be proof that i i uh you know went on this craft but the same thing it's always like
oh he's in a trance before this happens you know apparently and then it's that same idea of like
he believed it and puhart kind of substantiated oh yeah you know we saw it land and we saw you walk on
it and what but then it always goes to that question like why again you could just say oh well they
wanted to experiment with can you get someone to believe in or just kind of framing it around this
et ufo thing but it's always like why why do this you know why why was he doing this yeah uh you know
et framework and do these kind of mind manipulation experiments around that yeah and see you know
see what what people can believe and uh you also get into weird territory where it's like
that the you know extraterrestrials or nhi non-human intelligence already has mastery over vis-a-vis its
security officer and he's just like a really upright great guy and he uh thought you know like this
sort of like b2 bomber was like kind of winking at him in the distance he and his um uh you know um
of a walmart is the the line he always says it's sort of this crazy iconic line you know and um and uh
realizes that you know possibly he boarded a craft and what's really interesting is he says that after when
he gets sort of you know debriefed they check his teeth i think he said that like the guy checking
of opens up and said yeah i was kind of like afraid you know and he he really opens up like i didn't know
and so he you know but he was famous at that time anyways so he leaves buharic is you know trying to
that this woman phyllis was like a legit psychic you know knowing things about people and so forth
being i can't remember the name but anyways this guy says you know i got really really weird vibes
you know etc but lo and behold he wakes up one day and realizes he has a uh metal filling that he never
had and he goes to the dentist and says you know what what's going on here i i didn't get this done and
they they looked they said yeah this was done um you know professionally there's no question about it
this like not avoiding the the negative stuff like apparently the guy went like you know crazy he just
happened to but that's like a real story and the guide you know and he brought it up to buharic and
they said oh you know we don't know what you're talking about we this we weren't involved with
this or i think you know actually i think what they said was oh you know this was done by the the
bizarre you know um but that goes back to the i mean what you just told me is crazy because this was
early 70s so there might be something going on with this this tooth thing and you know again i think
the film does a good job of this or i hope it does is you know i don't believe or and especially don't
couple stories in buharic's life that you know do seem like legitimate sort of extraordinary
that a bunch of his family was visiting a bunch of his cousins and people who you know are very
night or that day said later tonight you know i just got a message that like a ufo is going to show
say you know what do you think is going to happen do you think it's going to show up and everyone said
like he gets emotional telling it and he's again a totally sane guy you know of course his dad was
andre buharic but like he's he's very normal saying guy he said yeah of course you know the camera
wasn't out because it was much later in the night and again pre-iphone of course you know you got to
that moment so it's stories like that where i go okay well you know what bulharic isn't running some mk
ultra experiment on his family you know decades after now all this stuff so so yeah i don't want to put
this idea out there that you know i i think that way i mean again it's just there's too many red
that happened you know well i think there's something it's like everybody sees the world through
implants and all these things you can break that container and then probably intentionally shade
prism that involves other entities between man and god or you know whatever your metaphysical beliefs
are i think also involves some sort of hubris like you know you can you can have both but um it's
i'm i feel like shocked like listening to all of these facts and i'm just thinking as you're talking
about puharj's son and this ufo showing up um what was night because i think of 1952 as the you know dc fly
covering it people seeing things you know i actually recently met a witness from 1952 and and and he was
yeah but do you think that had anything to do with the seance because i think of the seance with you
know the original channeling of the nine it was 52. do you know what month uh it was it was um
in any sort of you know selection bias here but july 1952 was when it was the thing showed up and so
but a lot of that early channeling with the nod that was all you know 52 interesting yeah into 53 i mean
it could have been and i told you like he he wrote in his journals about these orbs and the one of the
psychics psychics would say you know go outside tonight you're going to see an orbs you know well
so and then you have you know this 1933 magenta crash which it seems like is getting increasingly
were there and you know maybe there's some occult stuff going on there yeah with the knights of malta
right you know who knows but you know puhart was a master mason he was yeah interesting and um he
these you know what he would call kind of dark occult groups and and societies and people trying to like
and it's weird you know and it's like you have you know a picture of jolly west on the set of 2001
space odyssey you have you know there is yeah yeah yeah i think i did hear about that yeah yeah and so
that's insane it is insane it is insane and and then you have these you know it's like the neil
armstrong looking like you know he's in a hostage video joe rogan describes it like that you know um
after he comes back from the moon and so you have to wonder if there's some sort of like weird
my you know and if i didn't know puharj and you weren't of on braun you have one of the mk ultra
of like what it would be like uh so they would feel comfortable with like sending whatever you
know if if they went to to to send stuff there and he says yeah you know somewhere in the nasa
he clearly you know worked with them we have we have documentation of that didn't nasa also have
the guy who spent longer in the earth's orbit you know in space than anyone prior to him he went in the
that's like something i read about and you know i thought oh that's interesting but in puhart's archive
recording that like you know he says like like i've said many times in the past which would indicate that
tape where it was um roddenberry puharic and phyllis schlemer was the channel the channeler and you
these sessions and um that you know of course nine and then there's a character in deep space nine who's
know all the specifics but it just like it you know as as stuff in the in the movie industry does it fell
apart or whatever and and it never happened but uh he was moved enough to write a whole you know 130
page script about about his experience and it's called the nine so trippy yeah and you have so we
should make it maybe yeah there you go yeah you have a hit greg up if you're interested yeah i mean
you also you know think about the star trek you did with the you know the galactic federation yeah
that's mentioned in a couple of real world contexts too one of which being um you have high meshed who
would you know has won multiple the highest you know national security awards in israel is basically
federation yeah and so do you think there's something like more real going on that in in
oh yeah who's you know a really interesting guy um there's some videos on youtube with him he's kind
of like the israeli puhart he he kind of looks like him and you know they have the same vibe going on but
you know instrumental in hooking up uh puhart with geller i don't know the truth to that but um
in an apartment in tel aviv together but you know bentoff is interesting because he worked for israeli
around like you and i are right now and they would record all their conversations which you know is
not weird necessarily but also you know why would you do that and then save the cassette tapes decades
later so you know there's a lot of clues like that that goes back to that israeli connection and and
bentoff was one of a number of um scientists who were being tracked at you know puhart's house burned
burned in 1978 um to this day no one really knows who did it but it was a proven you know arson job by
friends with a lot of the stanford research institute and early psychic you know research pioneers yeah
you know their their uh shared interest and in consciousness and stuff but you know then there's
is that stuff exists and you can put it together how how you want but you know i've told a lot of people
and again it's not because i sort of fear for you know anything but we we really done maybe it's
film and the story in general is like you still question there's still research to be done into this
you know pieces of media or journalism beget more questions often than answers especially if you're
cutting to you know the deeper architectures of reality yeah and uh i often think you should be
kind of skeptical or distrust you know people who are like they're so sure it's just x or it's just y
you know and in this case it's clearly this kind of murky subject but that i mean that makes it that
makes it so fascinating right it makes you just want to go go deeper and uh yeah um i think that the
willingly in these kinds of experiments you know but he he um yeah he really opened up i mean anyone can hear
very open about you know i was i was scared um and he always uses the term like buharj made me believe
this he made you know and then he and he does credit bar says look you know i i i love the guy he
he's very clear like you know at that period like i was i was uh concerned about what was going on he
mentions being pretty sure that uh buharic had slipped him the mushrooms so you know
yeah whatever you know i know what's going to happen and he'll like predict the wild things happening and
um well he was doing that in the 70s he was like like again these this this idea that you could use
stage magician and he's you know i don't i don't know how legit he is he often said you know and i think
often again like these people have something that's a little anomalous going on and they play it up you
sort of subject but no i i actually firmly believe that he was one of probably you know a lot of people
out there yeah who have something and again it's just like can you turn it on every time can you
can you perform at every instance someone asks you i mean no i'm not a i mean i i don't i don't
know but i would assume like you can't do it a hundred percent of the time maybe you can do it
um through all these people i've talked to and stuff who were like yeah he he had something you know
speaking of people with gifted you know psychic abilities uh who are the space kids the space kids
or they would you know go into the room and the the the drawers but oh you know poltergeist stuff right
whatever but you know it's like parents calling in uh the tv station you know pooharach claims like
saying what the hell is going on here you know my kid just did this my kid just bent a spoon my kid just
you know touched the the the refrigerator and it short-circuited you know all sorts of stuff
psychic yeah powers yeah so that's apparently what was happening and so pooharach of course you know
learns this and he's very intrigued so he starts to you know visit some of these cases of kids who
in you know all over the the country in canada and places and and people and and we say kids we're
talking like teen you know early apparently there were like some very young you know five four or five
six year old kids but the ones that we're dealing with in the film are all you know in their early 20s
say hey you know we gotta talk like i have i have these abilities and and you are obviously the guy
to to awsening where he's you know living and and starts this sort of camp where basically they are just doing
nature of kids showing up at the house of a you know known intelligence uh connected scientists etc and
so forth but um basically he collected them and um just started this camp where they did you know kind
because a lot of these kids claimed they had some sort of encounter or or you know ufo experience
you know not and so all the kids that had an experience he would hypnotize them and allegedly the nine would
which were kids who like you you hear a lot with these experiencers who like they didn't want to talk
about it you know they didn't want you know fame or they they were just like i'm actually scared and i
want to know what's going on with myself you know they weren't trying to like you know do anything more
than like can you help me figure out what's going on after after you've looked at this for 10 plus years
do you think that the nine coming through these different experiencers abductees people who've seen
ufos represent something real that's sort of you know non-human or extraterrestrial coming through
these people or do you think that these were sort of synthetically implanted or kind of manipulated by
there and was just like you know have fun basically but i think that puharic's house which was now called
just had these sort of like front companies which i just think it's obvious you know so at this time
he had lab nine and i think that lab nine was doing sri research you know on on children because essentially
you know a lot of people who go into a trance or hypnosis you know there's there's a protocol right
it goes back to if you really want to test like a kid's a real you know 20 year old person is a 20
year old a better psychic than an 80 year old you know eventually you're going to have to find a 20
year old and then do an experiment with them and i think what was happening was like if you go to a
20 year old and say hey you know especially at the time with erie geller being famous you know
whatever star wars this and that and you say hey you know do you want to be a part of an experiment
where you can communicate with these you know these beings and you know i can put you in it's safe and
i can put you in this this hypnotic state and you'll communicate with them like obviously
you would say oh that's okay that's that's interesting that's cool you're not going to say hey
you want to come be a part of a uh a covert you know mind control experience you're not going to
time again you've got same years remote viewing experiments are starting at sri you've got the
connection to sri via some sort of pay stub going directly to lab nine and you've got all these young
kids who on the tapes are doing remote viewing so but the qu the question i want to push you on this
our intelligence abilities about real things drop russian nuclear bases find hostages you know whatever
do you think that this council of nine were real you know extraterrestrial or non-human beings
communicating through these space kids or do you think the nine was being implanted and they were testing
some you know i mean clearly they did have some abilities to do that the the the evidence would point to the
to come across as this like negative skeptic person because i'm not but again it goes back to like if you're
you're hearing uh you know that's what you that's what you have but what is if you are saying some
of the protocol to get people into this state involves uh saying hey you're you're contacting
seem super open-ended and they just seem to connect with the nine how do you sort of make sense of that
well i don't know and that goes back to the kind of you know i think uh jeffrey mishlove brings this
they're tricking you and sometimes it's real sometimes it isn't i think there was you know with
research that he passionately believes in and he's trying to come to some sort of you know reality of
of the et phenomena or was it just all mk ultra you know and again i don't think it was all mk ultra
again in some of these um sessions and and this is strange is is that on some of the sessions you
and she's you know this is like the tape recording we're hearing and and on those sessions it's like
you know typical okay the nine um the you know the world is beautiful we need to save humanity etc etc
then there's other tapes that are like you know what time is the best to to remote view the kremlin
so we can get into that you know so yeah so i think it's there was a way of like okay i need to kind
of you know give an example to to maybe other people around to say hey look this is what we're doing
okay see you set in on a session so now you know what it's like and then when those people aren't
around it kind of gets to the the serious stuff is again what it this is what i'm you're hearing what
i'm hearing it's all based off that it's not like really my personal um you know hardcore beliefs it's
but i think he got sort of under the thumb of the uh you know intelligence world early on and i just don't
think that he could kind of get away from that and i think you know you often hear it's like the mafia
like you don't just leave and when you're when you're that involved as he was you know just say hey
i'm i'm i'm good you know and i so i think that there was a lot of pressure on him to do some of this
him out there i mean there's tons of it have you read the stargate chron conspiracy the book it's
like this this book had the story that i told you about of the guy in florida who woke up with the
ever did was intelligence involved you you know he's he's an awful person he's an evil genius but uh
you know it's not true and i think that i hope to get that across in the film and i think we do because
do it you know yeah and whatever this kind of amorphous blob that is the ufo legacy program that
is always proverbially discussed but you know usually in a very kind of high level fuzzy ways
things that you know some you know behind the the the iron curtain science you know uh group in the
u.s you know uh during kind of cold war secrecy era already knew and uh and and they would recruit
these people and then they would probably be forced to you know work on things in contexts that they
gets into this stuff and they were like you did a good job because you didn't shy away from from that
and i think you know you illustrated it well but you know they were even like wow there's so much in
here we had no idea about like we literally had no idea you you're telling us stuff that we never even
heard before yeah so that just goes to show his own family was in the dark about a lot of it but you
that in and of itself seems a little messed up as does yeah you know slipping somebody mushrooms or
you know telling them they've been abducted by aliens and taken aboard a ship when they haven't or
quote unquote teleporting them and throwing them through a window and you know like these things
aren't cool you know uh no and again like i think if you watch if anyone watches footage of buharach electric
he's the most jovial funny night you know like he's not this like monster person and that's why i quite
do what i did essentially is what he he his message is if you look at the zimbardo prison experiments at
stanford or whatever where you know these prison guards start to get really self-important or stanley
milgram's shock experiments you know it's uh and then you combine that with the you know the the power
of the cia at the time i'm sure you could get coerced into doing all sorts of things and does that fully
exonerate you like probably not but uh it's uh yeah i mean i think the the the best version which i think
walked into a position like that and there's just no question the level of um you know how how deeply
that you know we had so so interesting were there any other experiments they were obviously
interesting is that um and you see in the film like getting back to this idea of the nine being this
you know middle east war right going on and puharic and specifically phyllis schlemer he was still
working with her then but and and and all the space kids you know they weren't specifically going on
where it would be like you know two people at puharic and two other people him and three other people
and so forth but um in that time they're getting messages from the nine saying you know you need to go to
egypt you need to go to you know any you know middle east area you need to go to russia you know and
who got really involved like he even says in an interview like you you normally could not even get into
nine said you have to go here you have to go there and so he kind of hints at like well what was that
at this time you know under the auspices that this was a psychic you know this was the nine
telling them to go there phyllis schlemer completely questions everything and you know way later in her
what it did i never questioned what it did and so you just have to ask like how is it that puharic
and um and so a lot of people speculate you know i've heard stories of you know christian missionaries
who are actually spies and you know something like that going on again it's uh interesting
like the more you listen to those tapes at that time and the more you just kind of put things together
thinks a psychic is telling him oh just let him go what what a kook and meanwhile he's you know
they're asking are like you know what are what is the code name that you know the the the you know
questions if that's what you're supposed to be doing talking to the nine but to go back to the the the
the egyptian god like so you know that's not and there are nine there are specifically nine egyptian
like it's almost like okay i gotta i i have to you know do my job for the cia and on my off time i i can
like well what does that have to do with you know mk ultra so i just think like and again this goes to like his death in the mystery book
around that where i think like there was a situation too where he may have been you know on payroll for you know xyz
he shouldn't have done that and you know you think they took him out as a result maybe of that
right because the nine are saying you have to go here you have to go to this location to meditate this
been wanting to go in there anyways so i'm already here i'm gonna go you know but he's there
maybe on on a mission and hey you know don't screw around kind of thing i think there was a lot of
that going on and um his death is completely mysterious what what happened you can see the
where he said you know look i'll admit it um i worked for this part of the cia my boss was the guy
name his boss but i wait you know what he might actually let me think he does i have to think about
it did you figure out yeah yeah i know it trust me it's just in my crazy head pooharich head but but
was a woman who was on this this tape that dick russell recorded i told you about
think they're having a smoke or something and he's and he's just kind of like hey look you know give
implanting the the the idea that you've had an encounter or you know you've been abducted or so
research um and again you know you're gonna ask like why why you know like why was it always like
the ufo thing but um but all that was going on like right before he died you know that tape was recorded
apparently and he they lived with him and he was still like you know doing stuff with them or whatever
people would kind of like show up even to this day and be like hey you know you should study me
he would welcome them and so he claimed that there was a people like that who were actually you
so when he would turn on the tv he would get hit by this you know elf that would be and he and he
writes in this legal pad like you know i am this is happening to me i can tell he would test himself
the day he's found you know there's no one at the house and um right not right before that but a few
probably happened but there was apparently a department being set up just to study elf um you
and he he said no and apparently some argument ensued and he said you know get out of here and and
that and said you know no you know get the hell out of here etc so all of that stuff was leading up to
95 and he was found dead coincidentally you know the stargate program ends in 95. i was gonna i literally
um in 95 uh less than a month after puharach dies he this guy disappears grinberg when if you see the
that's still a missing person did you ever meet puharach yeah they met when puharach was in exile in
is was uh found dead grinberg disappeared so again what do you say it's all coincidence and you move on or
you say there's something so bizarre yeah grinberg the the whole thing about him is like he realized
and of course a lot of people say oh you know he he got sort of kidnapped by whatever government
agency and they're using him and you know what's crazy is uh on some random message board uh this
the doc is really good but there's like actually you know legitimate proof that like he he was
95 government puts out newspaper articles all over the news you know stargate there's nothing to it
honest being open about all the experiments he did with you know stargate so i think um annie jacobson
alludes to it like i just think it was this classic you know he knows too much and he can't be he can't be out
them seeing him as a liability late in life you know maybe he feels remorse about some of the things
that he did and he's speaking openly and exactly you know they're probably just trying to accelerate
the research in the in the black um what are some of the wilder testimonies of the space kids that you
film took so long which you know to give myself credit for because a lot of people are like i can't
believe it took you so long and this and that but a lot of it was like just getting people to talk
because you know you could imagine these people like don't want to and again this is what you
know you hear a lot about this with the ufo abduction stuff like these these people like
film like you got to get these space kids it's like stranger things in real life you know like
you know never reach out to me again i want nothing to do with this so what did they say i mean that's
them and saying hey i'm i'm you know trying to do like a level-headed you know portrayal of buharic
i'm not some crazy conspiracy person like after all that um yeah they were really open but um you know
kind of cultish i mean if you want to look at it that way in the sense that like
for people that don't know sarfati is a physicist who is pretty well respected and studied under you
know very impressive people who you know were manhattan project you know pioneers and he has a
and talented education program and he was he gets a call from the future saying you're going to meet
the others you're going to be work on like building ufos essentially which he believes his work touches on
building ufos yeah and in this is a guy who could keep up with you know any top theoretical physicist
in the world like he's he's a real physicist he studied under hans bett uh you know at cornell and
stuff yeah and um he uh says he gets a call from the future and then and then you know they tell him
it's this weird synchronicity you know it's so strange so he's interacting with andre puhar yeah
well you know it's a crazy connection i just thought of um in that story the so the sarfati story
some sort of you know alien intelligence but um i don't know if you remember his part of the story
you did you ever ask him point blank hey jack like was any of your stuff do you think it was seeded by
these sort of you know it could have been control people or i mean i think like he's open about that
you about the townsend brown connection this is insane yeah this is the craziest thing to tell
dc for like meetings who hardwood and this is early 50s again which weird that the same year you're
channeling the nine you know in your lab you're going to dc to meet with all these people but
it's part of the page that's like so worn you can't really like read what it says but it's it's kind
of a you know a brief uh mention that he he met with with brown and spent the afternoon he says
and so if he could do that hopefully he could get us this uh you know this transcript that's crazy so he
von braun and brown's ideas somehow seeded by like mk ultra adjacent things like probably not because you
have like you know warner von braun goes way back to like you know early journey like it's clearly like a you
know a rocketry genius like you know as a young kid um was all was way into this like you know like
in his in his teenage years um or was like you know if you think about like what would be one of
of american kind of you know in the black dark science like whole tech trees that come from
modern computation and william shockley who invented the modern semiconductor yeah you know bell labs essentially
and um it was a letter and he goes you know my my friend you have to meet my friend he's really
interesting you know he's into all this you know interesting science stuff or whatever and it turns out
outside the overton window like it is today yeah and so yeah anyway how would you speculate on do
you have you speculated on the connection between townsend brown and puharic nothing more than just
blue book and robert friend and jay allen hynek have possession of this you know material and townsend
brown walks in to harvard flashes his credentials and takes the material and like that you hear stories
like that time you have telegraphs that i think um or telegrams that uh his daughter um i think has
you know um coordinating with wild bill donovan the oss he was like as high up as it gets when it
because townsend brown had had flown behind enemy territory parachuted into you know nazi german
telegram is says you know from william stevenson your husband is okay you know he's he's been
injured but he's okay and he's on his way back to the us or whatever so i can give you like 50 other
you know you know vector and maybe if all of this stuff is being coordinated at a higher level than we
you know nuts and bull like they all kind of materials they all kind of connect at the at the top
you said uh you know this idea of like flashing credentials and walking in play i mean there's again
i could give you 50 examples of puharic doing that kind of thing that i've heard and so that yeah and i
meant to be seen you know these were like buried in his in his records in fact like in the film you'll
stuff that was not supposed to be um read you know or seen it's amazing there's a lot of other names i
literally again in the journal met he's like you know says something like uh you know wait it was in
the waiting room for an hour and finally got in and we had we talked and so obviously you're up to
something serious yeah doing that you're meeting with the third director of the cia who yeah it's
great guy and again he was somebody who would never have wanted to appear in a documentary you know like
his life was totally fine you know he didn't need to talk about this but he did because event
eventually he told me like if you're willing to like tell the real story like i'll talk
you know and he said look you know you can talk to the assistant like she'll she'll corroborate this and
and i did and she did and she did and his his theory was just like we some connection you know must have been
been occurring and and and what what what do you do with that because something i learned which was
certain elf frequency that would emit from it so when you touch somebody's forehead with this
be in in order to do channeling and so he could basically just like i could go like this to you and
you would fall into the thing he says that one of the one of the kids says yeah i i remember that
of um there were a couple like the classic you know right now there's a ufo that's sort of hovering over
channeling that would be like apparently the nine you know saying that saying this through them yeah
him beaming the message right now there is a ufo you know above our head or is it like
a lot of these sessions are very long like some of them are literally like two hours long you know and
it's it's just i i hate to say like it's kind of like you just need to hear it to kind of like yeah to
contact with an extraterrestrial say you were to suspend disbelief entirely and just take the contents
of the nine at face value how would you characterize these nine beings in what they want for humanity
destroying ourselves you know and that if there's a way they can prevent that then they they want to
and they talk a lot about nuclear bases and this kind of thing that you know we hear a lot about now
nuclear bases um but then now i'm like you're making me think this is real
hastings great work in his book it's really good and i made kind of a you know another little thing
with robert hastings on my channel but you have this guy bud clem as early as 1945 in hanford where
anything prosaic and just like the nuclear connection is so ubiquitous and then you're
so like if i were them i'd be like try to tap into what the hell is you know controlling yeah dude this
is a crazy rabbit hole yeah obviously uh um what was i going to say you know you're see now you're now
you're entering what i've been in for like years of this constant like wait a second now i think this
because um there there was a lot of uh well you know the the classic thing where like with disinfor
ufo disinformation they often say like some of it you know some real stuff is sort of peppered into
yeah absolutely i think it was that kind of thing too where like maybe there was real you know et ufo
course well what connection did you just make when i said the atomic energy commission what i was thinking
was um there is uh i think i sent you something about this guy a while ago and uh i i have to say
and that's how you know we that's how like inner interstellar travel works that's how all psychic
stuff where it all comes back down to this you know sound tones again there's this big connection
letters but this guy's theory um riser was you know the ability to communicate with you know et ufo is
buharaj would exchange these letters that were like you know two masters going back and forth about this
stuff like diagrams charts math and like you got to think like they obviously were like on to something
yeah this was his theory that the way to communicate with you know non-human intelligence was essentially
through tones and through sound and so you get puharaj you know doing that basically where he's using
tones and sound with space kids and can you while they're in a trance there's a lot of experiments
where like i'm going to play this certain tone and can you kind of like connect with that tone while
you're in this hypnotic state and can you follow that tone where is it bringing you and what do you hear
research there that had to do with something that wasn't just you know a mind control thing because
this guy riser was brilliant i mean in his obituary albert einstein said he was like you know a genius
you know this genius that's insane because riser talks about like parapsychology and mind batter stuff
yeah and you think of einstein as being totally opposed to yeah well i think with riser like a lot
of guys like he started doing more you know quote-unquote legitimate research but he got he got obsessed
works and so him and puharic were um exchanging a lot of letters about like you know do you have
the ability to to create such and such a tone and what at what speed should it spin within the you know
about something serious here you know that's so fascinating so so and then the atomic energy
there's it's a paper trail and the 50s ufos showing up around nuclear bases is you this ubiquitous
thing it's constant it's all over various cia air force documents you know i sort of document a lot
you know he he was genuinely interested in in in paranormal you know research and in ufo i mean
like i you know maybe there's somebody like typing out you know what these space kids are channeling
and then it's converted into this elf frequency and it's transmitting to the you know space kids brain or
whatever well you know it's weird you say that because on a lot of the tapes there's mention of
saying no what you what you just said somebody's typing something whoa because they often say well
now i'm back in the in the more cynical camp where it's well they said at one point he said um that you
know the referring to the channel being the person you know at some point they will become a more reliable
and and tons of them and hundreds of hours so like you just all you can do is piece together
well what did the space kids think do they think that they were genuinely tapping into nine you know
other end like a lot of them probably know the history that you know at this point well that's
firsthand but i think you know to answer from what i know is i actually discovered things about you know
mm-hmm um one of the space kids who i'm close with like yeah she she was like you know shocked i i i
experiments this one of the spaces like i never even knew knew that like you're telling me this for the
to accept that the negative path may maybe you know the reality and i don't i mean i would probably do
that i mean i you know so i think um some of them want to just try to say hey look we were told we
free you know etc and a few of them um have become more open like the guy from mexico city i told you
to maybe think at least okay something else was going on what was it you know we don't we don't know for
almost seems like the subject of some you know kind of maniacal experiment is valerie ranson yeah who is
benefits type program it was something like this but that's how she was you know involved in government
up role in the army but anyways he was very very connected his pictures of him with like every you
rocket launches in the late 70s that actually did occur which i don't i don't know you have to look
around yeah yeah and then and then but and she was somehow like do you know what role she had in the
occasions at you know inside the white house you can look it up i i can look it up too i i i'm sorry
satellites to people and i'm telling you man yeah i mean i've tried to i mean the other film i'm doing
alive she's still alive yeah oh you gotta go find her man well i've i've i think i i think we kind
just trying to create this network of of you know high up government individuals and people to kind
while she claimed to be you know a space kid and able to receive information and and channel information and
out there online as that's you know very you know open where he talks about this i think but um
like i wouldn't go there you should just kind of stop now and i've gotten all that stuff whoa so like
what's going on what do you think do you have it well so for first of all a little context for the
files around biological interactions from you know people interacting with ufos that was given to um
the psychological kind of you know um you know neuroscientific dimension of of this whole thing
so what what do you do you speculate as to what valerie well yeah i have a couple of things but
like you you're better off like not going there kind of thing so a couple of speculations firstly and
in the same light as like you know she always happened to be there whenever something was going
talk about her is you know i don't need to say it maybe something happened now they're married
have in the puharach archives of her at lab nine um and you know yeah she was very good looking so that
but this you know you hear about that uh happening you know sleep to that kind of thing so that was
with funding for certain projects and hey i'm a part of this thing you should be a part of this
like that but um the really weird thing is i don't know if you've seen it there's there's allegedly an
interview of her on youtube so you you probably know this youtube account eyes on cinema oh yeah so
and it says valerie randstone like describes her ufo um experience you can go anyone can go right now
forbidden science books jock valet stuff and you know she says i was going to school in northern
them hey look here's valerie like can you believe this every no that's not her nope that's definitely not
you think they were like they just again didn't want to i don't know but it's just it's so goes
you know anyone who thinks that's her is an idiot and but everything she says checks out and in the
happened to her in her life many times and then some guy you got to see the video she says this guy
shows up one day to her job and is like hey you know i want to take you i can't remember exactly that
you know i know that you've had these ufo experience and he and he spouts all this stuff
about her that no one would otherwise ever know like stuff about her family i know you've had you
basically saying you know i am an a i'm an et and i'm here on earth on like a humanitarian mission
and i we want you to work with us you you're going to be the first uh test human to work with us
and you know do you do you accept this position and and then she she the guy parks and she gets out or
and all this stuff that we know about is you know late 76 and 77 70. so that's her like origin story
information that she got have you read it uh no well i i've skimmed it but i think you used to be able
this where like someone is like hey i heard you got you have buchars archives i'm really interested in
him and what do you have and we should we should talk and and that kind of thing this one guy weirdly
and he's like you know have you heard of valerie rantzone i said yeah he goes oh would you want to
me an email which is allegedly from valerie which is like you know hey uh you know let's talk and this
yeah yeah this isn't me kind of thing sure and that you know again i'm very level head that it really
2016 17 i'm talking like you know not that long ago like 20 21 20. he reaches back out to me and is
like hey you know what's going on with the film and is there any way i can see it and hey did you ever
talk to valerie if you want i can try to get and i just never responded to the guy again it was really
strange wow and i tried the email that he had that he claimed was valerie's of course it like you know
weird but well what happened when you emailed oh no nothing okay it wasn't it didn't kick back but i
just never you never got anything i never got anything back ever yeah but you think you've located
her yes and you're gonna try to interview yes that's amazing yeah well i hope you do man that would be
these sort of you know spooky science outfits that seem to stem from exotic tesla you know uh
think it was like 83 but it was kind of detailing all the research that had gone into like you know
those those types of weapons and um you know radio towers that can beam a certain frequency that can
the middle of that and um you know there was a lot of people running around researching that at the
time and i think there was also a lot of research happening of um you know what's the potential of
to usually emphasize kind of aerospace contractors secret you know nuts and bolts weapons technology
faster than light travel that sort of thing what are the implications of the stuff you're looking into
i think there's some there's some truth peppered into a lot of you know false going on and i think that
that still happens you know i think that's still going on so you know i think the implications are it's
just still difficult to navigate what's what's real and what is not real you know and i think it takes
people you know like you and and others who are like really seriously interested in looking into this
stuff and talking to people to to kind of like keep going with it you know yeah well this is a i mean
if they're you know it's a big puzzle that we're putting together this is a huge piece that i think is
missing for a lot of people you know prior to your movie so i really hope uh people go check it out i
think it's going to be you know make make a lot of waves and update a lot of people's understanding of
well it's going to be for purchase um on you know itunes and youtube and that kind of thing
do like a you know you can purchase it for a certain amount of bundle situation yeah okay cool but there's
should have honestly like yeah probably but i mean you're you've got your gift that keeps on giving
and i just just called him straight up and i introduced myself how'd you get his number
i found his number online what yeah i kid you not it's one of those classic white pages sites where it
was like hey have you ever heard you know the name andrea buharic do you know bob beck that because
the name and he was really nice and he was just like if you come across anything more concrete you
he said the the deepest you know kind of core was the o and i office of naval intelligence they really
they got like this huge grant from the the oni and i was like you know looking everywhere to try
look and we couldn't find anything but but um you know they they were working with a lot of people then
she's on a lot of these tapes so it was this woman named sharon so um you know sharon with two r's
mm and like valerie you know huge question mark everyone who knew her then was like she was this
everyone who knew her back then was like you know it would be amazing if you found her because she
they're convinced that she was pulled into a you know stranger things montauk project type project where
to talk about her when you bring her up so that was another example of like okay maybe there's some
but um people think that his yeah buharach's lab was was that so do you does this add to your
conviction you know i think even the makers of stranger things say that uh it's based off of you
montauk long island does this add to your conviction that i don't know you hear all these things around
gifted and talented education you know uh kids who do who have psi abilities yeah being taken into
research and development centers like patel memorial institute and others and um you know they're
they're told to like you know how do you interact with this exotic piece of metal or uh you know pick a
card or you know things like that does this add to your conviction that this was happening in sort of a
widespread way oh yeah buharach himself um again if you choose to believe you know what he says he he openly
says i helped locate these kids he talks about it i mean he says like i was the person who would say you know
yeah this you know this one checks out and they would move on to wherever they would move on to
them locate children with psi abilities so it's all that it's all that gray area you know yeah and you you
have to ask why this stuff is coming back into vogue like you have the telepathy tapes top the podcast charts
of you know again what i think is an underlying real phenomena but does it does it make you ask
questions around why is all of this stuff coming back into vogue it feels like if you were to take an
index of aliens psi and psychedelics um and you were to you were to you know in like say it's like
a you know synthetic derivatives like an etf or something if you were to invest in this in the
late 60s early 70s you'd like lose a lot of money into today but now if you were to invest in these
the trend is like and are you cynical about that is is there is there i mean maybe even to take that
or something i don't know i mean i think i certainly think this film is going to help you know put some
interesting because of all this you know this resurgence of interest in it but um i know what you
don't know what's i don't know what to believe yeah you know with that so it's just i don't know i'm in
the same i'm in the same boat as you i don't know what what the motives may be but i think that
you know you know you're on the right path if you do that but um yeah greg this is an honor man this
are uncorrelated from other you know i love the the stories you know i love i saw a thing and i was in
the bed i wasn't you know they put a chip in me like that's it's fascinating but you it's always hard to
yeah i love this interview because you just to me again you know you added this big puzzle piece
uh that seems to be missing as far as this whole story and obviously begets uh you know a hundred
more questions but yeah um i really hope everybody checks out the movie and uh thank you for being here
thank you man i appreciate it awesome
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