And it was during that time that I met some people from the Pentagon, who were running the, it was a lose group that was running the ATI program and through John Alexander actually ran into John Alexander.
So and John Ramirez had had a wonderful slide show and he I think he showed it on one of these blogs a year ago or so but it's a wonderful slide show where he sort of shows how how you know how this happens that it's like the rents and somebody sees something and it looks legitimate they see some craft in this guy so what happens well usually what happens is if whoever sees it whatever government agency sees it they take it they make sure they're not going to see it.
is John Ramirez likes to point out, you know, was a CIA program. And we had our own
call it that because I don't know what it is. I mean, I don't. And, you know, I think John Mack,
You know, I from the sort of the John Alexander school, I mean, he, I saw a presentation he did
Um, uh, if you read John Keel, and you know, Keel will tell you exactly, exactly that. I mean,
who gave it to his son, who basically gave it to Long John Neville, who gave it to Art Bell,
you know, former, I guess colleague or, you know, XCIFs or John Ramirez, you know, I guess you can
idea, a strange idea to think about John is, John, I didn't know John in the agency. We, John told
like that. Yeah, John Greenwald. Yeah, an incredible thing that he's done, you know, and, you know,