Have you stood in front of a recovered UFO?
You're talking about a conspiracy on a level.
You would have to keep a long-running secret and you'd have to backstop it for years before it, like decades.
Wow, what a great first question.
If that were true, I'd probably be a senator.
You know, I wrote that book for a very specific reason.
And at the end of the day, I wanted it to be a record.
It's it becomes a permanent record.
And then when it goes to the Pentagon for a security review, right?
whether it sold one copy or a million copies, I never paid attention.
So some time ago, I had a little TV show and what we were doing on history channel
And I remember the school that Mike in a little bit.
So yes, in some cases, it's celebrating a marriage, but it's also awake
because it's kind of for me a little bit of a distraction
So I know it's probably not a satisfying answer.
And there's a lot of different details you dealt into there.
But I think one of the things that gets a little lost with you in the years
when you got to A tip and started working on UAP, you, you had 11, 12 years or
I was actually only uniform for a very short period of time before I got recruited
I was a lower enlisted grunt.
But you know, my father, when I was a kid, used to always tell me, you know,
My father being Cuban is always always, you know, you know, in order for a leader
to be a good leader, they must first what it knows, know what it means to follow.
So I went into the army as a lower enlisted guy purposely.
A wonderful time to be there.
Actually, there was a lot of stuff going on.
And then came back for a short stint.
She had a thing called preclampsia and help syndrome, H E L P P, I believe.
After a month or so in the Nick unit and tubes sticking out of her body and it was awful.
I got sausage fingers and you know, my hand looked like they'd been through a meekly or,
What a, what an incredible experience I was.
So anyways, 9-11 happened and a few months after we brought her home and I wound up going over to Afghanistan.
So the intelligence community has a requirement to have people, operators, that work collection operations,
Because a lot of people think the CIA is sitting, you know, some embassy somewhere, you know, James Bond and having cocktails.
A lot of these folks have military background.
For example, you're probably way too young to remember this, but in the beginning of Afghanistan, we lost a couple really good folks.
One of them was a gentleman named Michael Span.
Michael Span was a CIA officer who died in combat over there.
Anyways, long story short, there's a requirement to have military people, or formerly trained military people, and they kind of transition into these more tactical roles.
And so did that for a while and finally my wife was like, look, you know, I don't like you doing this.
So from there, I took a promotion and I came back, Conace, one of going to DC where I actually went Washington, DC, actually just just out of the DC.
You know, you're traded for a pen.
But that was a result. That wasn't the cause. The cause was there was intelligence failure within our country.
So, after 9-11, there was a commission, 9-11 commission that realized basically what the failures were.
So, they created a new position that fell directly under the president.
That created a national level, blah, blah, guy, a gal, a point of contact.
And so, they created that position. The first one was a gentleman named John Negroponte.
John Negroponte was a politician and I guess he became a diplomat for a while and ambassador and then became the first DNI.
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And then I was also living as we had discussed prior. I decided to raise my family on an island in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay because DC was just not for me not a great place to raise two girls, young girls.
It's a wonderful area by the way that Chesapeake down there.
I know, man. Hey, we're going to say, but I grew up near the water a lot. And that was part of my life.
And I wanted them to have a normal life right. Your bicycle neighborhood. Not worry about you know being run over or something worse.
Oh, yeah. It's so quiet. Like my aunt used to have a place in Tuman Island down there.
So it's almost as if I gave you a script or something. You're, you're, so that's precisely the issue.
Quality of life is fantastic. But the commute out to pass Langley, which is where I was at past there was a three hour one way commute.
So my quality life was terrible. My kids had a great upbringing. My wife had a great life out there. But my life is pretty much sucked.
And so I had an offer in 2008, late 2008 to come back to the Pentagon for a bit and establish a information sharing relationship between Nash,
Those folks who don't necessarily have a national security clearance, but they also have a need to know because if you want to stop and prevent terrorism or anything else,
So I was brought into work with DHS to try to figure out a way where we can take national level intelligence information and get it disseminated down in a way that didn't.
That was still effective effective and useful, but didn't compromise national level secrets because these guys didn't have a lot of these guys and gals at the local level didn't have security clearances.
So you can't share with them a secret document because they don't have a secret security clearance. So how do you do it? Well, long story short, I'll spare you the details,
Correct. Dr. Likasky. Yeah. So this is, and this is what I try to explain to people. If you want to want to know a little bit about Jim, he is the epitome of a rocket scientist, literally a rocket scientist.
And in fact, if you were to ask me in my opinion, probably the world's premier rocket scientist, certainly one of the best in the US government has ever had this is a guy that can tell you the burn rate of a first stage solid rocket motorbooster, he can tell you the trajectory and reentry speed of a Merv warhead coming in from lower floor, but I mean this guy is amazing.
So I didn't know it at the time, but when I, when I finally met him, you know, he actually looked like I hate this atypical rocket scientist, but he had the glasses, you know, that I tie a little bit crooked and hair, he was more interested in doing the work than he was in his own appearance, right, because he's a rocket scientist, he's got a real job to do.
I remember him asking me a very blunt question at the end of our first discussion together, and he said to me, he said, what do you think about UFOs? And this just came out of the blue, I mean, I was, I wasn't even even fun like what?
I was like, is this this is a question I use like a psychological leave out. And so I answered him truthfully, I said, I don't. And so he kind of looked at me and he said, what do you mean you do not believe in UFOs? And I said, no, we didn't say that.
You asked me, what do I think of UFOs? And I said, I don't think about UFOs because frankly, I don't have a luxury to I'm too busy doing.
And you ever thought about it before? No, on your own time? No, I was never into like a science fiction kid. I wasn't into Star Trek or Star Wars or anything like that.
I was more of a more of a GI joke kid.
Tom Hock-Rus missiles, Apache Longbow avionics, you know, some advanced space based systems. Only later did I learn that they just needed a really good counterintelligence guy and security guy for this program.
Was this first meeting in a SCIFF? Yeah, in my building. Yeah, in my building. So here's a problem. When I wrote the book, I actually put those details in there. Unfortunately the government redacted them. So I'm not allowed to say the specific location because it was sensitive buildings.
So a rundown townhouse. It's a safe house, really masquerading for the CIA.
Again, another undisclosed location in the DC area looked like a normal building. It was not.
10th floor. I think. All right. Then there's a down on Lesey Stark-Google.
Yeah. And this whole concept of a skiff, though. This is so cool to me.
Like, because you talk about it so nonchalantly because you're doing all the, a lot of these meetings in these places.
Yes, we do. So, think of this room that we're in here as a skiff.
It's designed to be sound efficient, meaning that we can have a conversation like this.
And you're not going to get any outside noise from outside. Well, a skiff is kind of the same way, but in reverse.
So, you build a room that has been accredited to be a sensitive compartment of information facility, S-S-C-I facility.
So, think of like a rainbow. Well, at that top tier of top secret, there's several categories within that top secret.
So, a skiff, like you're showing up there. Yeah, we are on the screen right here.
And that skiff, there's actually a tactical type skiff. So, that's a mobile skiff.
So, they're built in a container. As you see there, they are soundproof. They're also RF proof, radio frequency proof.
So, you can't eavesdrop into a conversation. And those are portable ones.
during, right after 9-11, and you could put them on a boat, put them on a plane, and you could drop it off anywhere in the world, and you could do what you needed to do.
So, a white noise maker, and you could probably pull that up.
It creates a level, a baseline level of ambient sound to restrict people from, if they do happen to hear as a glimpse of a conversation, it confuses them.
Another very interesting program, which I can talk about now, it's unclassified, type in the word tempest, and look at what tempest means from a, from a secure communications, and it will pull up.
Cameras, this microphone, everything, a computer monitor.
They have to be accredited periodically, but really it's nothing more than a room like this on steroids.
I mean, you're kind of like in a skiff yourself, except for it's the opposite.
Everything in a skiff. Everything in a skiff. Yeah, you as basically you go into a building, go through a door that's got a bunch of security codes.
You got the blue badge, which means you have a comments from out. And then if you go into a certain, like a SAP F facility.
So, if you think a skiff is something, try getting into a SAP F facility. That's like a vault within a vault within a vault.
That is a obscene level of security requirements. And so I worked out of one of those.
I'm not a denial. I'm not clear. Just to skip that for the record.
We don't... Typically, unless you have security clearance, you're not getting into a skiff.
But for the most part, you don't get into a SAP F unless you're right on and you don't get into a skiff.
So I think one of the things that often gets mixed up online when people are looking at the alleged history here of like the program is the whole all SAP and A-Tip thing.
It's like eventually it was known as A-Tip. We'll get into that whole acronym and whatever soon.
But when you're getting read in on this and then I guess within a few meetings brought in as the counter-intel guy,
my understanding is that this was when at the time Senator Harry Reid, who was a major senator at one point, the majority of minority leader in the Senate,
had basically started this thing called OSAP and was saying we need to look into not just our history with UAP, but we need to look into what this is from a national security threat perspective.
So great question. Let me rewind the tape here a little bit and see if I can help do a level set on this.
First of all, it wasn't necessarily just a Harry Reid thing. The other thing, oh, it was Harry Reid's pet project. No, it wasn't.
There was two other senators that were involved. You had Senator Ted Stevens from Alaska, who was also a military veteran, and you also had Senator Inue from Hawaii.
Even himself had his own UFO sighting, his own UAP sighting while he was flying a mission. Then you also had astronaut John Glenn at the time.
I know there was a lot of people that say a lot of things. What I can tell you personally because because Harry Reid told me before he died when it seemed periodically in Vegas and whatnot.
He did some very good stuff for this country. Politics aside, he did some very he was a patriot.
So long story short, he told me that he had at one point when he was a Senate majority leader, he had been accidentally, and I say accidentally, you know,
And then very quickly they came back. I think it was maybe the next couple days or a week later and he said, Hey, listen, we need you to sign this document.
I'm a Senate majority leader. I should be read on to every program. That's part of my job is the oversight. I'm part of the gang.
or even J Stratton will probably tell you more about the all sat part started. So all set was a contract vehicle that looked at UAP, but also looked at other stuff.
Contract vehicle. Yeah, contract vehicle is a mechanism by which the US government funds projects, right.
So you have a contract because most people think, oh, the government does all the work. They don't. They contract out. They need some contract. Oh, yeah. And so this is how we're getting into the good stuff. So this is where big low aerospace gets involved.
He bids on the contract. By the way, people think, oh, it was a sweetheart deal. No, it wasn't. In fact, he was the only one to bid on the contract.
He had the expertise and the capabilities to do it his staff and oh, by the way, he funded a lot of this stuff himself out of his own time. Robert.
They go correct. So people give him a lot of crap, not realizing that the guy really is a patriot. He's done some incredible stuff for this country out of his own out of his own pocket. So anyways, long story short.
Then it became when a tip became a tip itself and the all set program kind of faded off. When was that 2012 2013. So the contract for all set ended in 2012, I believe, went from eight nine 10 11 12 so five years.
You government guys got all these goddamn terms. I know, man, it's an entire forest of acronyms and I know I know it's his own language. If you ever if you ever want to have a secret language,
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So anyway, long story short, the A-Tip piece was really more focused on nuts and bolts. So we were looking at military encounters, aircraft encounters, Navy ship encounters with UAP and things that we were picking up, not just with gun camera footage and flea footage, pod footage, things that we could also cooperate with radar data, hard data, right?
So you had several issues going on. And so the A-Tip program was initially, you know, some people, depending who you talk to and what day of the week it is, they'll tell you a slight variation of it.
I can't tell you really much about OSAP because I wasn't my focus. I can tell you about my involvement with A-Tip.
From my understanding and from my observations, because A-Tip became a very legitimate program and is still recognized how you can talk to very read other folks are like, it was real, you know, I don't know if that's how you're doing.
Yeah, I mean, it's a real piece. That's what peace stands for program.
Now, it may have started off in the early days before I came on board as a nickname or whatever it is. I don't doubt that.
But it was a real, real program towards certainly from 2010 onwards.
And as all SAP faded away, A-Tip kind of contracted, meaning we really, we've limited the number of contractors that were involved.
So like a big ol'o, but again, I'm not putting names in your mouth. I'm just saying.
Yeah, something like that, where we had certain people that had a deep amount of expertise that was really, really what we considered low density in the US government.
But the people who are involved with OSAP when you come into it and A-Tip on the inside of the government, it seems like that group is kind of the same.
So a lot of the core expertise that were in OSAP came over to A-Tip and stayed with us, right?
But there was also a lot that were like, OSAP, I think with big ol'o on the contract, I had like, I think the digital list was like 100 and some people.
By the time we were really focusing on the A-Tip piece, we had really very, very few contractors.
So it, it totally, totally get it. And I think even, even some OSAP and A-Tip guys might even be kind of confused because some of them weren't there for every meeting, right?
Sure, absolutely. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So yeah, because I try to simplify these things and make it easier from a 30,000 foot view.
Essentially, it's not like you're walking into places and there's a giant sign on the door. Welcome to the A-Tip meeting. Welcome to the OSAP meeting.
It's like, give me a fucking skiff and let's talk about this.
Well, a cute, perfect example. You, you, you, and your producer, right? You guys work on this project together.
You're in a lot of the same interviews together and yet he might go out, get a cup of coffee, you might go out and get a sandwich and you now get involved in a different conversation with somebody else on the street and you come back.
You know, but you're not necessarily going to share every little nuance of, hey, I went to get a frappuccino and I ran into Bill and he told me his dog needs to be walked and just got shot to the vet.
But essentially to keep it simple, maybe the focus of the exact types of events you're looking for or, or context of UAP technically like has a shift or whatever between OSAP and A-Tip.
At the end of the day, you guys are a group of government individuals who are read in on serious secret shit that even people above you technically in rank don't know.
So when the word UFO started getting used back, I guess 50s and 60s, what is UFO mean, unidentified flying object? Well, what's flying? Well, flying is, let's say this is a plane, right?
These things don't have wings. They don't have rudders, they don't have control surfaces, they don't have L-A-Rons, they don't even have cockpit sometimes. So they're not really flying. They're in there, they're in the sky, but they're not really flying in a conventional sense.
So when you first like agree to be brought in on this though, you've had a few conversations. Obviously you can't go home and have pillow talk with your wife about this stuff. This is this is pure intelligence. So you are you're walking out of skiffs and you're living with the information unable to speak with anyone about it.
And like you said in the first meeting when LeCasca asks you have you thought about UFOs and you're like, no, well now suddenly you're thinking about UFOs, UIPs. Do you have a moment where I don't know if it's like you left to yourself like is this really my life like are we doing this or you're like, holy shit like this stuff's real and like was there this reality moment where you're just sitting outside and looking into the looking into the sky going, oh my god, like what am I getting myself into here?
Yeah, so there's typically two in my experience and I can't speak for the people I've noticed two types of people how they how they deal with this information. First of all, when you have a security clearance and you're read onto a lot of programs, it's really hard to be surprised because you learn a lot of things and you kind of start getting I'll say numb, but used to the idea that you're going to learn a lot of things that most Americans are never going to know about to the day they die.
And so it's not really that big of a deal. This is a little different because you've been told for so long that it's BS right now it's like well okay wait a minute so the two types of people I've noticed there's these group of people that have this a ha revelatory moment and I've seen it when I've been briefing them even at the Pentagon it's like oh my god it hits them like a ton of bricks like you mean they're real like this is real like no kidding this is a joke.
And it's this this kind of this revelatory moment where where it's like an epiphany right. And then there's the other group of people which I probably fall under which is more of a slow and steady gradual realization that we're dealing with something that's certainly not conventional.
It's definitely not our technology and there's a really high likelihood it's not adversarial technology and that's been my experience and that's that's the way I'm going to say that.
That that's the way I came to terms with this it wasn't this you know I left a meeting also we're talking about aliens you know talking about UFOs that wasn't the case from to me who is always well could this be adversarial technology could this be Russian could this be Chinese right is some sort of nice you continue to go down and you're getting more and more details and facts you start realizing okay well it's definitely not Russian could be Chinese well let's let's see what the red force technologies are right let's see what their capabilities are because not just technology I see this thing flying is this Chinese it's okay what does it take for this thing.
To do what it's doing right and do they have that technology to do it it's not just simple to say oh yeah that that's clearly Russian or Chinese because it's not just the object it's it's the signature of the object and I got to be careful not to go into a lot of detail that because signature sometimes signature information is more important than then then identifying the object itself because you can recognize performance characteristics.
Through signature data collection that you can't necessarily get visually or optically and so you explain that a little more yeah sure I can't look at it or jump suits.
Let me explain this test in your physics here yeah I was on the phone with Jack's our body last night he's like ask him some physics questions he thinks he's a physicist oh I'm not a physicist at all no no I'm definitely not a physicist I'm not even closer so a signature is kind of like a boat.
In the water right we are so we're here in this wonderful studio if you got the water nearby and you see the boats going by signature data is looking at not necessarily the boat but the type of wake the boat makes in the water the sound of the boat makes right the perturbed in the water and if you look at the back of the wake does it have two streams or one stream that can tell you if it has two engines or one engine right for example look at a plane flying up ahead.
You can tell the difference between a small jet and a big jet because usually you have more engines on the big jet right you can see the contrails separate contrails from each engine also there's an acoustic signature right is it a military combat plane that's breaking the sound barrier because you would hear that that's a signature right or is it sounding like just a regular passenger jet at 35,000 feet so so signature data can tell you a lot about things that the looking at the object can't I can tell you velocity and trajectory they can tell you all sorts of.
You ask me about intelligence right sides it's it's it's a lifelong journey oh my god yeah yeah and it's like you know you don't at the beginning you don't know the scope of it at all you you just realize okay we are.
Alright I'm being told that there's some real shit out there that we can't really identify so yes that's a meaning of life crisis potentially but you don't know.
How much what the volume is how how many of these alleged sightings are even real and then you start getting pulled on or pulled into the actual intelligence and in your book the description of the Calarice meeting feels like a fucking team America meet up because you get pulled into this
with legends of the game how put off Jacques Vallet Eric Davis I think was in well that was actually a dinner that was not an a skip believe it wasn't in a
was not an a skip negative no it was actually you're just sitting in an Olive Garden talking about well not all garden but no and it was it was it was the room had been you know fairly secured okay but we weren't sharing US secrets it was somebody else a
a little loop around right here well you know that like I said there's there's ways to have conversations you know and then there's right ways to have conversations and then there's definitely
Calarice this was a huge moment for you where you're like whoa so would you mind just explaining what when this case was and what
Chora it's in a nutshell without going too far down the rabbit hole Brazil had been experiencing some UAP issues and in some cases
I hate to say but to go not cats right because when things get really out of hand you send in the military they wanted to get a control of the
experienced the things themselves and so it wasn't just like going sending the military to debrief a bunch of civilians they were having experiences as well and some of these individuals were being injured.
directed energy think of like a laser or perhaps a burn where you have a superficial burn some folks reported other other issues possibly consistent with directed energy more internal organ damage and then some people had some terrifying
fundamentally different than a lot of the experiences that people may report here in the United States you know people here tend to tend to feel a little bit more benign well down there they definitely had the impression these things were or were not
benevolent they were malevolent now I also want to draw a distinction here it is possible it is certainly possible that some of these injuries were not deliberate right they're just a
simple process of the technology so what I always say is like when you go to an airport you jump on a 737 there's no real threat but if you go on the tarmac onto the runway right of that and go behind the jet engine while it's
spooling up you're now going to yeah there's a threat right it's not intentional but you're going to get burned you're probably going to lose your hearing and maybe even worse it's just it's just a product of the technology it's a
always try to keep a very open mind we actually approach investigations with the exact opposite approach that people think they came into all you guys were trying to
prosaic meaning a normal explanation right so oh what you're seeing there's actually the
contrail of a cruise missile that was being test fired over Vandaberg at this particular date at this particular time that's not a UFO or what you're
looking at is a those lights on the horizon are actually on the mass of a sailboat it's over the horizon but you can see the mass because it's a little bit
higher and that's a navigational like you're seeing or an anchor light or oh actually what you're seeing it so we went into looking at incidents with prosaic
acceleration is a change in velocity so if I'm driving 50 miles an hour and I kick up the gas to 100 miles an hour I am changing my velocity how quickly I
achieve that speed there are inertial forces inertial forces that are experienced and we we call those forces we equate to them on a scale called a
experience gravity relatively equal and so if in comparison if I do a high G maneuver in combat aircraft that's about to a 9G which is a lot nine times of
force of gravity so now your head goes from being 14 pounds to now you know almost 100 pounds plus right so that's your whole body so now you're you're you're you're you're you're way over a thousand pounds when you're pulling these
maneuvers so we were G suits to negate that effect and the human being can withstand about 9G forces for a short period of time before you start having medical consequences and
perform much more than that but but that is that's pretty much limitations of a man vehicle okay what we are seeing our objects that are performing at 2000 3000 4000
G forces right so well beyond the healthy limitations of anything biological to withstand and certainly well well beyond anything from a material science perspective so that's that's that's
you're looking right yeah multiply that by five and you're going to put that in comparison an average commercial jet flies about 550 miles an hour if you're lucky with you know with a good tailwind
now do we have aircraft that can do that we do we have for example the Lockheed wife 12 a sr 71 a k a the blackbird it can fly about Mach 5 you can but when it wants to do a right hand turn it takes roughly half the state of Ohio to do it right
these things are not flying at 3,200 x miles an hour some of these UAP are flying at 10,000 13,000 miles an hour and they're doing it in a low
low earth atmosphere environment where that the the co-fiction coefficient is is really really high and they're not taking a you know a slow study turn they're doing instant 180's 90 degree turns
so you have to scratch your head say well who has that technology right so the third observable it's a bit of an oxymoron it's called its low observability meaning it's hard to see with a naked eye you see something but it doesn't
Valkyrie that we have to lower the cross section just a little bit so we can sneak in under the radar
transmemedium travel yes forgive me so what is transmedium travel or it is the ability to operate in multiple domains what's a domain it's an environment so we are seeing these things operating in lower
atmosphere underwater in the air do we have transmedium technology we do look we've had them for for decades look at a seaplane perfect example a seaplane can fly in the air and it can float on the water
but let's face it a seaplane is neither a really good plane or really good boat because it's a compromise and so the more
environments you want to compromise and perform in the more of a sacrifice there is to performance and design it's the reason why the space shuttle
came in and glided down like a brick it wasn't a very good plane because it was compromised because it spent a lot of its time up in space
so it's hard to make it's just why this reason why a submarine looks like a submarine and a jet looks like a jet
because they spend most of their time in that one environment right if you want an object to operate in multiple environments there's more sacrifices to your design and your performance capabilities that's just the way it is we're not seeing that with these uap they are able without having to change a performance or their design they can operate seemingly and seamlessly
something that's really beyond what we currently have in our inventory and then the last observable which is a terrible word
without the associated technologies so we talked a bit earlier about flight right with we yes
the other way is through buoyancy so think of a hot air balloon think of a helium balloon where you have a cavity and inside that cavity it's less dense than outside and so it will rise to reach as its equilibrium right that's that's how hot air balloons work and then my
counter the effects of Earth's gravity take the thing and something is a baseball take a baseball throw it in here that's that's that is that is ballistic if you will
energy putting energy into something newton's law of gravity for every action there's equal opposite reaction and it goes in a moves for a little while
lift they don't have any obvious signs of propulsion they don't seem to have a cavity in there for buoyancy
now you realize okay this isn't a drone this isn't a quadcopter this isn't a balloon this isn't you know you're dealing with a
fundamentally different type of technology and that's that's when a tip really gets involved that's when it's like okay
we're dealing with something and could it be a red force technology it might but if it is we're in a lot of trouble
because we've been seeing these things for a very long time over our controlled us airspace over our sensitive military installations
and so it's obviously from that perspective we it is a national security issue for sure 100% yeah
now we got into this tango it was a great explanation by the way but we got into this talking about it
it was a very well-documented so you know you may consider caloris as almost the
roswell of brazil it was dead a lot of manpower behind this and you know uchoa was a was a serious
dude he wasn't you know just some guy who'd flight to phanties a four-star general in brazil yeah
let's say this is a radar so radar were really invented towards the end of World War II they were
data back then radar for very primitive they basically sent out a signal and that signal bounced
radars are kind of like a super type of radar where you have rather just one radar you've got
you can you can adjust you know you got to be a little careful with this but there it's it's a lot
it's a lot smarter technology so you get a lot more fidelity and in this case the spy one radar
as you see the radar as you see up here in the Princeton this could pick up a baseball at 80,000 feet
piece of equipment a baseball I mean that that's and it could probably even do more than that but
for example the e2hakai which is a radar platform flying radar platform if you pull a picture up
of a e2hakai I can explain that for you a little bit too because it's important because these
so this is an e2hakai and you can see that big big dish on the top and that's a radar so
it is a flying radar and you can dial in and tune into you know with great deal of fidelity objects
this thing so let's let's count these up for a second right so you've got maybe five or six
at the same time at the same place under the same circumstance right so if this was a court of
laws always right of a total people look we're beyond reasonable doubt I mean this is this is the
if a tip contributed anything it it it contributed a level of rigor behind the UAP topic from a
national security issue and I want to be clear because a lot of people say you know fear mongering
it's a national security threat I know instead of a threat set us an issue because we don't know
if it's a threat in in government parlance there's there's it's a very easy it's a very simple
calculus to determine if something is a threat there's only two pieces it's capabilities versus intent
it's a threat and so one of the examples I use a lot of times and I don't mean it to scare people
but this is kind of how how I see the issue from a national security issue you know you live in a
Americans even though you don't expect anything bad to happen probably a good idea to lock you
just check their windows to make sure they're locked especially if they live on a lower floor and
you walk downstairs to have a nice hot cup of coffee or tea and as you walk downstairs you see size
in your living room carpet that we're not there the night before my question to you is is that a
is that a problem well if these things had a Russian star on the tail or in North Korean tail
Pentagon though we're kind of like when you when you literally couldn't say it it had a sticker of
the Air Force Kendall said yeah we know they're there but you know this not really a priority right
now we don't know what we don't know where they're from there's not a priority does that drive you
nuts well let me ask you this if a submarine were to pop out of the Potomac and it be some sort of
ballistic submarine that doesn't have a flag on it would that be concern to you yeah absolutely right
I mean what do you mean it's not a concern because we don't know what that's insane you know how how
because until you know who's that is it can be a problem yeah and so yeah it drives me crazy
there's a technology that can come in unimpeded anytime anywhere and there's not a damn thing
I hate to tell you this but that's a problem yeah now you talk about there being three possibilities
in a war footing type scenario meaning they've been detonated in tests around the world and stuff
like they're taking matches out of a hands of a baby it almost seems like they're watching us
like a god a little bit if this is the case to make sure we don't destroy ourselves so I interviewed
a number of eyewitnesses regarding that aspect of the phenomenon and that is particularly during
out of the hands of a baby you know I tend to think that these it's almost like whoever they are
power that said your argument is more that yo this looks a little more malevolent malevolent to me
no one did that but us we decided as a world we're not going to drop them on each other at least
a p did not stop that they were not there when we were going from the atomic age to the nuclear age
isn't a whole lot of information to substantiate that people it feels good oh they're here to take
they have so they have like a dead man switch their fingers are always on the button that comes off
put on two different hats here okay one is a national security hat and by the way it's different
capabilities now that's my national security hat right so if you're paying me as a three-star
general to think on behalf of the American people if there's even a 5% chance that things could
off for a second to put on my Louis studies on the hat okay do I see any evidence that they're here
to harm us as a species or whatever it is no I don't I don't but but let me now put on my
my my special agent hat on right third hat yeah third hat now you've got a whole bunch of them on
they were touching me they were doing these things to me it has scared me okay well that's a salt
okay another another felony offense keep keep going right so that's not a nice thing and you know
they took her somewhere else that's kidnapping yes right that's that's not a nice thing you're talking
abducted right abduction think of the word abduction yeah that's that's a crime that's a felony baby
did you ever did you ever come across cases that you felt had a great burden of proof evidence
to prove that that had actually happened because you know how a lot of people are skeptical of this
and they're fair you and I were having a great conversation before the cameras were rolling
so let me just preface that but a true believer no matter what information you provide them they
they have the solution they're the only ones they have a monopoly on thought and unless you agree with
dealing with a technology that is real we're dealing with the technology that is interested in our
whether we realize it or not we are imposing our own understanding of of of what it means to be a
it subconsciously and let me if I can digress here for a second hubris is is is really ultimately
responsible for this because we are a species where we have pride in ego and we have a narrative in
University Miami and I've always considered myself a disciple of science I believe in the scientific
100,000 to 200,000 years as a modern human being and if you look at that it wasn't until the last
2,000 years that we realize there's only two dominant life forms on this planet you're either a plant
or you are an animal who is a Greeks who recognize that and humans being an animal if you look at a 24
we tap our shelves under shoulders and say wow what a great great discovery and it wasn't until the
microorganisms it's a things that are inside you that make you up that live on the skin of the
and it wasn't until we could have the technology to curve glass and look through a little
and that's why it was oh this is a great discovery in a UAP that mankind no it's not it's just
we're usually wrong a lot of times when I grew up in science I was told and this is recent all life
there and it thrives off of a process called chemosynthesis there is no light down there and they're
issue because it is definitely a human issue we have five fundamental senses by which we judge
so what do I mean take my cell phone for example if I had the ability to see a cell phone vision right
I would perceive the world through Wi-Fi and through 5G and through GPS and I would see a
behind you there's a reality that you can't perceive I can see it perfectly and right now behind
me there's a reality that I can't perceive or interact with but you can right and we're in the same
look at the skies wonderful for a star gazing if you look at that same part of the night sky with
a radio telescope you're going to see a completely different reality you're going to see nebula and
the x-ray spectrums and that is that's the real universe we see a perceived a tiny tiny tiny tiny
no that's actually 0.02 percent of the universe and then you've got a scalability issue okay what
right and we are this infant testimony spec in the middle what is a light year it is the speed
your audience light travels at 186,000 miles per second okay seven and a half seven and a half
times around our planet in one second imagine how far you can go in a year and now multiply that by
beaches in all the world yeah right and so if the universe is actually a hundred billion light years
the middle of the universal scale if you were to have a scale most of the universe is either too
perceive a little bit and we are scale is either too most of the universe too big or too small
know the only thing right here and you know there's a bunch of nonsense and who he man I mean
that's that's math that's reality that's real right that's not a little I'm telling you that's
always trying to squeeze mother nature into a little box that we have invented we've created
mother nature doesn't operate that way she she she doesn't need to be confined to a box we're
the ones living in a box we just don't realize we do it to ourselves which means that things that
a great quote in your book you talked about the former director of something something at skunk
again there we put these limitations we there was a time we said well earth is the only thing
the data because we have a hard time looking through any other lens than a human lens and so we
we're at a point where we're now beginning to interact with them just like the little beasties
the surface of the moon than the depths of our own oceans I had a submarine commander once tell me
and he was dead serious it's a little funny out to share with your audience but it's both
right oh yeah and so I asked a commander of I mean honest question I was kind of a shock and
there's a lot to this conversation and and the problem is that we're always going back to the
information even though that we live in a world that's dynamic they are very hesitant to change
their opinion because they're stuck in a static mindset but the universe isn't static the
universe is dynamic so we have to recalibrate our the way our way we think we can't think in a
snoozing taking a nap and I'm not I haven't been snoozing once I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm already
like you were there so you can't say a thousand percent this happened but did you come across one
claimed to come up close and personal with a uap and they sustained a medical consequence now
I'm not a trained medical surgeon right I'm not but we had people that were medical professionals
was enough information to substantiate from a medical perspective that we've had military service
example I mean there are other individuals I can tell you right now a very senior former senior CIA
story but him and his spouse came up close had a very terrifying experience and actually a foreign
object was removed from from removed from his body from her from her so there was it was a husband
people like a guess what that senior dude who I know is now coming and telling me about their
experience people are feeling that's a little bit more safer not to come out and have this
or that they were a somebody under medical care by the US government you know these are all
tell me yeah and let me be clear because I don't I can't tell you with a straight face that they're
brother yeah let me tell you again let's go to the facts right again for this program a tip and
a volleyball some the size of a little baseball and their witness not only by me otherwise I wouldn't
just going by almost like a like a really bizarre volleyball up to that side yeah like well but
part of a tip are also having a similar experience so what we do know is that other people in the
A to program were also experiencing this now could it be could it be ball lightning sure could it be
just us it was other people in a tip who were also experiencing it while they were working in a tip
before a tip didn't have the problem and after a tip didn't have the problem only during a tip so
like oh then you know every two months no because sometimes you'd see it back-to-back on a couple
days and then it might be two three four months and then all of a sudden three more days go by and
any pattern that's one thing you know obviously trying to find a pattern this is coming every Tuesday
report this to put off or or Davis or or people in the 18th? Yeah they call it they had a term
I ask them I don't know what the hell it means they call a high-strand okay yeah strange you're right
the A-tip team oh yeah I wonder intel guy is now seeing now counter intel yeah I was counter intel
about it? I don't know I don't know set up a camera goes bus to skip ill-marry in there do something
right yeah well unfortunately once every few months you get after a lot of cameras I don't have
a setup like this I can't afford anything this fancy I've listened I'll donate these
when I walk into a room the IQ drops about 20 points automatically so you know I gotta keep
laid out throughout your book just for like context I thought was really good was a lot of the
couldn't yeah there was actually a lot of classified you be surprised there's actually a lot now they
a word search and just you avoid someone we call the dirty words yeah I'm very very hot words but
people in a legacy capacity that didn't want you know so it was certainly like you know you FO right
another would be unidentified aircraft because a lot of time people would write a report saying
or you could also write in for example luminous as a word which is bright right so when you talk
could be a rocket test rocket right where now you could say well the the rocket I was just
sending up to 25,000 feet created a luminous halo up in the atmosphere that was observed for the last
you know for for 120 miles and so that's a rocket test obviously but then when you have others
that's that's not our test rocket rockets rockets go in a very specific trajectory right and they
don't change directions very often so when you're seeing reports of these things maneuvering in a
certain way over a certain country the problem is it gets kind of kind of difficult because a lot of
the US government you can actually look at I there's a DOD directive I can show you at some point
that's a problem and so you have this data that's out there and let's say we get this information from
a human source we're trying to protect or we have some information from signals intercept over
a particular country you don't want to broadcast that right you don't want your enemy to know what
the perfect example the fact that North Korea has a nuclear capability that's not classified now
sources and methods but the mere fact that country acts has nukes that's not a classifiable fact the
mere fact that we're not alone in the universe that's not a classifiable fact right it's it's like
happened we burned him on the stake right so we had to recant that's not a classifiable fact you
can't you can't restrict the citizens of a country from knowing forgive the pun and an alienable
it's not declassified should use a reality right yes it should look the fact of Russian has
classifiable fact the fact that something exists now you can classify a US capability that exists
this and that if we think I'm just playing a hot shot sure sure because I want to know all of it
where the mere fact of something existing can be classified so for example the fact that a US
government is involved in a particular mission under certain authorities like covert action
and that is that is trying to hide a fact about something that is not that is not a classifiable fact
the US government is really good at a lot of stuff I mean it's fantastic the best country in the
a government to be accountable you first have to be transparent that's the only way you're going
to get accountability I had a conversation I'll share with you I've started sharing it
passed away a couple years ago sorry no no it's okay and it's it's life you know he'd be literally
died with his boots on old revolutionary from you dad was a savage dude he was yeah he was
something else that's tell people who your dad was come on so my dad was a revolutionary he fought
program trained in Guatemala and was part of the Bay of Pigs invasion he was a member of the brigade
and you know he he was a wounded soul he experienced things there that I'm sure probably made him do
not a diamondous pocket and and was self-made and all legitimate and he instilled in me the sense
why it's important to serve and sacrifice but my father was also very intelligent he was a you know
I don't know what happened because I didn't get his brain but my dad was was a intellect
role as well and I remember so my dad died two father's days ago so father's day a couple
you can see when that starts to take its toll so about a month before he died I had an opportunity
to go on a road trip with him so he went from Wyoming a month before he died a month before he died
so we've done my dad was I had cancer a month before I had taken a road trip yeah and he's
a road trip with his son and we go from Wyoming down to I know Miami right we're all of us Cubans
what do you think is the greatest threat to humanity non-think it to myself is it a you know
pandemic is it a disease is it is it warfare is it terrorism my father sat for a moment and he looked
corruption corruption is the act of sacrificing or giving away a core value you have in exchange
moral corruption you are you are trading away a more a core value in exchange for something and so
so we have an obligation in this country this is a country where we have a government for the people
and by the people this is a government where if you're working in government your job is to serve the
they're not informing the president of the United States that's a problem that's illegal you cannot
supposed to be working the right way and when it doesn't because a few people make a unilateral
decision that they don't want it to that's a problem okay I appreciate that and it's interesting
been very careful to do everything in a legal manner 100% your colleague Chris Mellon when he walked
law and the stipulation but because of a recent stipulation had been correct passed in Congress that
by the letter of the law I do need to say that however you talk about a government for the people
and by the people and that you have I believe you phrased it's something like a moral responsibility
to report to people if something has been done that is compromising that and yet you are also a guy
I look at him as being stuck between a shit and a fart okay slippery slopes on both ends on one
he is now like maybe his situation is good enough to do that but he now sets a precedent where the
people are reporting everything that happens in government so either way it's a problem however
he did from a constitutional perspective to come out and make that type of a deal no problem with
the way son felt I have a problem with what Snowden did he took his information and gave it to
right he he gave up that it wasn't just a Julian Assange this is not like like private manning did
and that is a problem there there are people who are no longer alive right now so that's been
died as a result no there he may have risked it no there there there are there are there are
unclassified and if I wasn't sure I went to the Pentagon and I asked so there is a big difference
between going and running from your country taking a bunch of classified information with you
a difference between doing things right and doing them right now and I think if you have only one
that would have a difference of opinion and think it should be done the other way sure am I
to delegitimize it or anything by any means but it's also such a pop culture phenomenon too
the right way but you can develop like a fanboy syndrome where people want to know more they want
to know more and you're going to give it to them and that's 100% and that's why no that's a problem
in here you know people confuse a messenger with a message all the time and and this is this is one
of my personal struggles with people because people will see someone in a and I'm sure this happens
what you're doing and then all of a sudden you know you become the more important thing than what
I've I'm just a normal shmo the only differences I was in a position where I felt I needed to do
something about it I'm not a hero I tell people that all the time I have this horrible and
posture syndrome that I have because people say oh you're a hero no I'm not a hero because I
serve with heroes and a lot of them didn't come back so I know what a real hero is and I'm not
a hero I'm just a guy finishing the job that he was given to begin with and frankly there's
and arguably you might have even done a better job than me so I just happen to be the guy in the
really do because I'm not the guy for that this is a relay race and my job is just to carry the
I'm just one of the guys in a long chain to get us where we are look you're just a part of this
chain as I am you're having this conversation with people right now in your audience you have a
global reach now think about that for a second think about that responsibility you today's day
and age right now have a larger global audience than many of the world leaders just 10 years ago
we don't want to be a useful idiot in that as well you know what I mean you can only know what you
yeah to manipulate yeah then we can manipulate them to go and put a message that's always a
possibility but then you're talking about a conspiracy on a level that would that would be it
access to just about let me almost everything so you would have to keep a long running secret and
you don't you don't got to go through this elaborate dance and you know hire a bunch of people to
gonna spend a billion dollars to make a million just tell them the UFOs are eating the dogs they're
I see what you're saying though I think I think that's I think that's a fair point it's like why would
over again it's not like the military industrial complex has a problem saying yes to a bill if it's
a threat from another country that's right that's I mean it's that's what make that's what funds
anyone who'd approve that would be moron I mean I'm like I'm sorry that's a big no you know
and oh by the way if it ever comes out because eventually will if that was a case then we're all
meaning of life if you will you know you ran into a problem in the Pentagon that I mean you
which is like with the quote unquote Collins elite so you at some point within a tip growing as a hub
was a large contingent in this 22,000 person fucking place the Pentagon that had their biblical beliefs
dictate how they wanted to handle something like this which was really in a lot of ways to say
you understand why at home this seems wild to someone like me or a lot of people listening that like
a religious belief is going to look now but when's the last time you pull the dollar out of your
you know a lot of a lot of our country was based on certain moral principles and even religious values
that's a fact you know there's a reason why we have a national cathedral right and things like that
doesn't that's not a bad thing you know this country is it's okay to have faith in this country in fact
I'm a man of faith I don't wear my religion on my sleeve and I'm very personal about it and
side that she chose to raise me Jewish I don't have a problem with faith in fact I think faith is
important to get people sure through a lot of things what I have a problem with is when people
overlay their faith on a national level security issue now is it that's trained that that
things are demonic or their anti-Christian and by the way I don't want to villainize a
Christian's ear because it's not a Christian issue yeah neither am I yeah yeah yeah no I got it
in a way that's unilateral without allowing other people to be part of that conversation that is
a problem for me now you I've have believed faith is great to have and if it is a moral compass
for you fantastic but I don't think that we have the right to impose our religious views in a decision
no that's not true there's actually two types of truth in the world there is a universal truth like
gravity right in fact just all the same then there's a personal truth personal truth is like
it's a personal truth and it may not be backed by the evidence and it might not might or might not
be backed by the evidence and so we have to understand what we can't do is apply a personal truth
in a universal decision a universal truth like gravity yes but you cannot this white whether it's
political or religious or anything else a personal truth should never be be used in a decision
yes we're we're we're looking through a lens that say well this is my personal truth and it's a
universal truth oh is it really though it's a personal truth but is it really a universal truth
and just stick to the universal truth and but that's hard to do because a lot of people don't even
opinions they're willing to do extreme stuff because their personal truth they think is a universal
but burns himself alive in protest that's a universal truth for them even though for us it may be
a personal truth I mean they are willing to give their lives for it right right so we have to
personal truth becomes a universal truth there's a reason why ISIS felt the way they did because
that doesn't matter what it is and then you have governmental extremism and that's also a problem
how much did they impact how much was that a constant thorn in your side with as it pertains to
actions that could or could not be taken by a tip you know what there was some people I won't say
pressure by them it was we got up to a certain point they kind of say stop here yeah
whoa okay and we didn't we didn't stop so you know other than a curiosity of saying wow that's
are the ones these are guys that created such a headache for us and they did they did they I
mean I think that story will probably come out at some point they they did make our life hell for a
the arguments a lot of people who may be purely on their religious side make is that you know
they'll point to the fact that we have no physical evidence of this stuff it just leaves a mark
so it's a demonic creature and you know look a Leviticus 1015 it'll tell you that's why that
itself is belief in the supernatural whether you like it or not yes and it's not a bad thing it's
just it is and so there's no evidence that you have right now it's a story that someone written
down and you decide to accept it as truth but and by the way that's a personal truth right that you
feel as a universal truth but at the end of the day you don't have evidence you weren't there you
exist on the other side of this with a religion and UFOs or something saying like oh were you there
make a really good point which is I think it's something I've never really addressed
if we're not careful with this uap topic if it hasn't already started to it could become a
the intent of these conversations and it should not be it should not be a religion and I am concerned
that in 20 30 40 years 100 years 200 years from now it could very well be a religion and it should
not be a religion yeah Lou I think it I think it already has become that way and I think you're actually
a I guess like unwitting guinea pig with that unfortunately because again you talked about being
the messenger with you know just delivering a message here and there's people who view that as
know like the devil so when I look at you this is a good time to go into this to really address
talked with you before for his documentary and then episode 179 I had a Nick Pope I think like three
and in in these conversations and in some others a point where I've been critical of you is based
air today which is that you know this is a fact like you are an intel guy right so I always
deliver the great word a few a p and then you have people on the other side who are going who are
whatever I was more in the middle in the sense that I'm like okay maybe he just really is a part
of an op and he's read in on things that I'm not so maybe there's a good reason for that but I
he's worked in the government and you know it could be like if this is a topic I'm interested in
like I am and UFOs UIPs he may be saying things that are not truth maybe for a good reason maybe
for a bad reason to maybe you're a bad guy loop but like I don't know this now I see three doors with
out here and you're actually giving all the information and it's in a purely kind of benevolent way
like you've said where you feel like you have a moral duty to tell people things that they have a
right to know the humanity as a right to know to say nothing of the United States of America's
citizens the third door is it's a mix and the third door could be that it's like you know and this
is a strong word to use but it could be like some sort of sia where let me just paint a picture here
you guys on the back end you know a 22 year intelligence veteran if you're still in a 29 year
existential crisis if we just dump this on people therefore someone like a lua azando someone
like a chrysmelland someone like a david grush could be sent out there to reveal some truths
obviously the first one you're going to disagree with which is that you know a loose full of shit
you know what's there but it's it's it's a little different first of all let me put cards on
that's what I want whether it's with this topic or another topic there is a right way and a
our government I'm trying to help it it's backed itself into a corner for seven years plus
potentially for decades and now we're at a point that people have the lowest level of faith and
been necessarily looking at the best interests of the American people but this is a topic I think
and I think there's a right and wrong way to have a conversation and I I want this to have a
conversation like I said both from a national security perspective but then there's the other part
it means to you and then if at the end of the day you guys say yeah great yeah we get a big Mac
then you make that decision for yourself and at that day I'll work a long mark I'm cool no sweat
must be not for the people that's bullshit man that's that's that's that's that's a that is a
that is a you we are creating a a fake narrative we're creating a binary solution that's this is not a
government then there's a people could the fascication man we're lost we're done this has then you
people made the decisions and you have a representative government that are interested in the in the
a waste this is my concern and I know what revolution is because my family came from it and people
I mean it impacts someone made a comment you know that is that is not my focus that's why I don't
deal with it I don't care about it my focus is on this type of conversation this is a national
you know that person because that one over there I hate just a little bit more right and so
you're saying it everywhere in the media mainstream media wouldn't be great if a president can't
may I probably make a damn good president but let me tell you where we differ this is my perspective
normal not like a super bowl my team versus your team it's not it's not a super bowl man this is life
being emotional about this but but this is this is what drives me when people try to put in a false
person to give you a sound bite because now we watch the media not only we want to do the news
thinking for yourself that is what this country used to be there used to be a point where you could
just the facts that was a nicer world I got Walter Cronkite up in the corner up there because
as a country hey guys if you haven't already please be sure to share around this episode on
social medium with your friends instagram facebook twitter reddit it's all a huge help and I
focus and through this we maybe we can have a bigger conversation about what accountability
this topic this is just one example it's a big one really big one but this is just one example
we're living in a country now where people it's devolved to such a point of he said she said and
shit that like these are the presidential candidates we have to choose from and it's a giant
reality show just at a high level one example right there say nothing of the rest the internet that
maybe we'll find out a hundred years from now when it gets declassified I can see how psychologically
people that are part of legacy efforts put them in front of a court and put them all in jail for
incentivize and we give them an award give them a promotion say hey listen great thank you for
your interest in national security good job that's the time to have a conversation I think that most
we're not going to put that as a priority right now and by the way no use having this conversation
the only reason why they didn't make an issue of it is why because they didn't have a capability to
so why admit a problem for which there is no solution I can understand from a national security
a problem which we don't even understand yet I get that I don't agree with it but I can respect
handle it I'm not saying that's their attitude I'm saying it comes it like it's like a passive
a friend and saying hey um listen um this fiance you have um yeah yeah great guy great gal do
that's with a lot of things national security there's a lot of things that we would keep people up
all right look it was a job okay but we didn't do it to to see if anybody else we were deceiving
there's such a lack of trust in the government now this is why it's important now more than ever
is there a better way to do it could be could be could I be wrong in this approach yeah sure absolutely
you laid out yourself with some examples we've seen such a breakdown in the trust of institutions
Jared Dillion who I had on the podcast for episode 182 or 183 he is a former Lehman Brothers guy
and he had this line in a memoir he wrote about Lehman Brothers is that he put it like this he said
19,970 but you get the point yeah it takes a very small turn in the punch bowl to ruin that punch bowl
because it just takes a few people in government to do bad things and the entire government
oh this government is big you know huge monolithic thing no government just meet a people
and there are some good people really good people government and there's a couple that you know
not so good yeah not so good right and unfortunately it kind of paints with a broad stroke the
entire government and so it's important we don't villainize a government don't you know
we it's like it's like a police officer yeah there's a couple dirty cops out there but most of
you've got a corrupt police department that's right now look if we're going to be fair and we're going to
the the private side so you learned through this program that companies i'm just going to name a
evidence through the files you had access to to show that companies like a lock he like in north
case is like a hand in hand military industrial complex I guess in a way such that the evidence
now yeah it was let's let's look at a real real case scenario here let's look at let's look at the
it was about 10 years it's when Kennedy said we're going to put a person on the moon and not because
moon that was a 10-year endeavor now we had to invent everything from scratch to do that no
technologies and so we had about nine to 10 years to figure it out maybe a little less
as a result of that over and think about this 6200 industries and products have were invented
well-being all because of a space race and this competition for for a little less than a decade
with a foreign adversary right these technologies have long outlived the initial purpose for which
they were created right imagine a company that has access to material or technology and without
work when one company gets a unfair advantage over another and they're in lies part of the problem
the proof will do that there we go we got this and we got this company a company B on the government
10 years later what happens company A becomes a multi-billion dollar aerospace company
to company A instead of company B right they make the money they make the profit now there are
goes bankrupt now there's a real legal liability on my part because I broke the law I did something
that I wasn't allowed to do because as a government as a government yeah because I gave an unfair
have company A material there's rules and procedures to do that I can't just go and give it to them
there are unless they are a prime contractor and I have these avenues that are taken care of and
why there is money behind it they're in a capitalist world people invested in company B because they
thought they were going to be a company that has the same type of potential as company A but we
and company A so here we're going to slide that to you right it's like all these sweetheart deals
where you're paying $22,000 for a toilet seat for an airplane yeah right I mean what well how does
that happen what happens happens because someone in the government has a sweetheart deal with somebody
here and they get away with it right so we gave are you saying and maybe I'm taking this a little too
crash retrievals and we had now created a beast that we cannot tame it appears that may very well
there's real legal consequences how do we fix this without you did you give a manminesty I think you
rewind and we've done it with other countries where we we say look a lot of bad things are done
stick with your example okay company A if they became a multi-billion dollar or whatever the government
security or national interests whereby your house will put a highway right through it we'll do
so it's it's a double-edged sword this is you know this is a very it's actually a great conversation
just say well I just want to truth well but it's not that simple it's not just okay here's a truth
because the consequences of that how you get the truth can make a break something and there are
people there that don't want that to happen well a huge problem with the truth that people have
you know steal a pen for god's sake steal something do you believe in god well I believe in the
a choice is it unique so universe as you can create universes in an afternoon but most of them are
fits together and then the question is what's set off the bang that's what we do for a living we
we think it was a quantum event and we are here because we are in the universe we decided to
already told you that you had a former director of national intelligence Radcliffe former director
of the CIA Brennan you had a former president of the United States you had a president just now we
can have a go former president that said hey if I get elected I'm gonna release the UFO files
but I got a lot of flak for doing it I mean do it didn't well nobody did you hear that what he says
he says I tried to do it before but I got a lot of resistance wait a minute
need it from me all you need for me is maybe a little bit of my background and you know xyz
that is a your ability to look at information objectively is sacred no one should be thinking for
have you stood in front of a recovered ufo I am
I have had in my possession material that was allegedly recovered from a ufo okay it was very
ever and I signed a paperwork for it right so that in itself is should be evidence for you
try to replicate that material and at a cost of a million dollars and it broke the machine
they're able to create this material at a macro level a sandwich between one piece and another
temporally there's a problem because this material has obviously been engineered with a technology
1990s 1940s definitely not that is equivalent to us as if you have a piece of material that says hey
and you peek inside you see a fully assembled 747 jet it doesn't make sense they did not have
okay little known trick so imagine being a da Vinci and walking in a desert in the 1600s and
finding this right yeah be trippy yeah so it made a plastic and it talks it's magic right
like this and wouldn't have no idea it's use right and understand what a battery is and
first I'm going to do is I'm probably going to weigh it and I'm going to do a physical analysis
half a kilogram roughly this dimension it's not electric it doesn't conduct electricity but something
inside does blah blah blah if that's interesting enough that'll warrant a chemical molecular analysis
between the molecules themselves how are they arranged what what is a relationship with the other
I say okay I'm going to spend the extra money I'm going to do a atomic analysis at the nano level
the natural environment there's a variation of isotopes that we find here on this planet and it turns
king touched tomb this is why it's kind of important because for decades there was a little dagger
that we found in king touched tomb that we just thought wasn't a little dagger it wasn't until we
did the analysis on it that we realized it wasn't from earth the metal came from a meteorite and we
know that and that's when all of a sudden became important like oh my gosh that's why they buried
such a level of precision that takes a lot of technology it's really really expensive right and the
a cost of a million bucks we were able to put two pieces together this is much much more complicated
than that so that is why material analysis is so important that's why when you come across a piece
not a material scientist but we had people that looked at it right there's people that that's even
specifically but I'm trying to have a conversation while getting around any issues I might get me in
important and what makes a piece of material so compelling that's what makes that material compelling
it be a crazy advanced civilization or future humans whatever it is it's like these beings would
able to simulate a crash happening or something like that so that it wouldn't happen I mean you
tried to cover it up and say it was a balloon so you know when you see things like that it's like
advanced how they allowed to be so vulnerable and susceptible right yeah okay sir we are in a
of the Hudson I mean just gorgeous just beautiful beautiful and you know it was only a few years ago
that you had a you had a what some call a miracle here you had a commercial jet yeah
it was a Tom Hanks movie later but they took off from LaGuardia went up into the sky as they were
if you're a bird wouldn't you be asking the same question these humans are so advanced how can
a dumb bird bring down a jet full of people and almost kill every single human being a bird
that's a good parallel you just give
so so you think that that some of this is just straight up a mistake that because again maybe we
not knowing whether or not this is a threat but treating it as it could be and like maybe they're
to them what is 80 80 years to us like you see where it gets a little convoluted and it gets
beyond what we can even like have a scope of intelligence well I do and this is why I think this
always in that box of well you know anthropomorphic if there's so much advantage and now as a
not think like a human if that's all we do right so it is I can see how it gets fuzzy I can see
have in the last 100,000 so so it's it's a logarithmic yeah it's a curve that's right and so so is
it possible that a hundred years from now that we're going to have the exact same ability that they
have maybe possible possible they may not be million they may just be a hundred years ahead of us
the truth and have the conversation for themselves and then I'm done I'm out well you're you're a veteran
and yet when you come into it you're joining a guy like how put off who's been read in at that
there had more experience than me by a lot but you're also you're you're there with like Michael
and I don't want to say everybody's a tool because it people are a tool but the reality is that I
are wrenches some of us are our screwdrivers and you don't use a hammer to do a screwdriver's work
and you don't use a screwdriver to do a hammer's work right so we all have our own skills just like
together that's what makes a successful team that's why you secure you have a great producer you
it's a team effort it's the same thing with A-tip it's the same thing with anything in the government
whether it's special operations or anything else it is a team effort it's a team that succeeds and
there is no I in team in fact I used to make a point when I talked to people about leadership
anybody who says that their leader probably isn't because a real leader never says that
what's understood doesn't need to be explained 100% and you know I in government a leader should never
people are paying for it you moron you know you're a manager you're not a leader with big difference
you manage people and by the way there was a saying by somebody a quote that he used to like where they
they say a manager will always say go a leader says let's go and I would take that even a step
further a great leader says I'll go first I'm through the door first and those are the
signs of leadership and and that is that is how you succeed whether it's chasing you a foes or
it's chasing bad guys or or being a politician you know we are just so used to people in these
we agree with it well yeah I understand what you're saying and also like you're a humble guy but
go off of I don't think there's any evidence to not say you haven't had a clear leadership role
mean you're you're one of the guys this was a little hazy for me just to so correct me if I'm
gonna be a leader in this in this conversation I wish I shouldn't be this should be no one more
I'm not as this is where again can feel oh it shouldn't be anybody it shouldn't be a who that's
we're succeeding now because this has been such a grassroots movement it has really been something
for for full disclosure and that's not because of me I mean but they see you know me on a tv show
or something like that but but I didn't make this happen this is I think this is a coalescing of
I think I think you guys you know my generation has done a good job of blaming you guys like it's
and taboo that my generation impose on this conversation and you're just having a dialogue and
it and they're just like okay yeah that that's a game changer I mean that there's no doubt we're
are there there are people that are aware of it a lot of people it's kind of a bad kept secret at
there's a couple videos there well more than a couple that that really are sensitive because of
50 right every time arrow comes out with a report and they try to and you know good on them at
in the area at the time and you know if that's adversarial technology then we got a real problem
in the middle of a famine yeah where was Russia I mean yeah right it's it there's there's no way
the billions of dollars that we spend trying to keep in a competitive technological advantage over
so you know it that in itself is a is a problem people bring up as a counter argument well what if
even bigger trouble but there's a third door here and I got to play devil's advocate on this and
that said just in your program in the Pentagon you had a situation where guys like you were on such a
such a limited number of people who are read in on the fact that that physical world that we have
well let me just say I hope that's a case I would love that to be the case because then I can
sleep a lot better at night loosely it's better at night the Nazis help us so my point being is that
regarding any type of exotic technologies look we got a lot of cool toys if you even knew about it
tell you what we might have and again and I'll take that a step farther for you I'll say probably
mathematically statistically you also as much as you may know there's a lot of stuff that you and
somebody coordinating it that's right that's a problem so yes if these other organizations existed
which looks like some did then there needed to be a single belly button and there wasn't and what
which is again what is it that's a that's a dysfunction of the government so that needs to be fixed
this thing called Operation Interloper where you wanted to basically set up a fucking you know
master honey trap on involving one of your carriers out in the sea where a lot of trans medium
his master yeah he was one of his masterminds him and we put this together but he really he did a
good job it's a shame it didn't it didn't get approved because it was really it was phenomenal he
Chris melon is a from the melon family the famous melon family so think Carnegie melon
and he was he was a senior staffer for bill co in senator bill co in and then later when bill
you're the guy who needs that information to do something with it I have a way to get that
information to you very quickly and if you've got a colleague over there that needs that information
keep a secret for the sake of keeping a secret because if it doesn't get to who it needs to get to
conversation I've always said about secrets secrets a lot of people think are like a fine wine
where the longer you keep a cork on it the better it gets um and I disagree I've always told people I
think secrets have a shelf life they're perishable they're like vegetables in your refrigerator
going to stink and then you're going to have a bigger mess on your hands to clean up and so secrets
so that is part of my with this with the a tip conversation you need to have a single belly button and
this is why arrow was such a I think such a pivotal moment for us for disclosure because now the
government's recognizing yes we need a single belly button now can they do a better job and I think
we'll agree they can do a lot of their job but they're getting there I think I think hopefully with
uh was something like interloper it was not in a place it needed to be obviously correct
let's get them on the phone yeah well you gotta go through dobser it's a little more complicated
it took my book almost a year to get through that process and it was like birthing an elephant
and still then he's they still redacted information believe it or not yeah a little bit I tried
yeah no games you know yeah well another step there's a different couple pages yeah exactly which is
opinion and someone has just like a person read I didn't I didn't think it was like that month
but I can't yeah it was really it's got I'm sorry I'm not removing stuff as no no no it's it's a
a particular UAP incident that really was you know it would have definitely been another gold standard
viewing thing is actually on on that note interesting because you you know you're making a big
like when you found out this was a thing with project stargate which allegedly have been shut down
but either way like you're able to do some wild shit and there's also something about a lot of the
frankly it's as a vestigial capability I think most human beings can do it actually quite easily
anything woo woo it's just based in science probably quantum mechanics a lot of a lot of scientists
it may be actually a form of quantum entanglement that occurs in a brain and that is what is that is
it's possible that if that's a case that remote viewing is a something we've always had for a
communicate simultaneously in a language all around the world you know we didn't have that
another human being there probably wasn't much of a spoken language and there probably wasn't much
ability to communicate so you had to be able to identify if something is a threatening or not
it's kind of like when two dogs walk into a room when they first walk into a room there's some sort
a vestigial capability left over when humans were much more basic and maybe relied upon it for survival
you know this was a survival mechanism you know is that friend or foe you know I'm not going to be
labels on things you know and I used to give a little presentation where I would I would kind of
when I show a picture of a parachute and I'd say you know what is para comes from the trunk it's
a Latin prefix meaning about meaning above or beside and so when you say parachute you think of
thing that shoots over your head and helps you at the ground with the with the hopefully a thump
and not a thud and then I say what does a word paramedic mean to you and then you know people say
what's first responders and a tamedic you know that's helping you and then I usually ask people
smile kind of look at you kind of crazy you know I did that because there's a stigma associated with
recover like some sort of data wasn't there something involving like a terrorist that you were
were there for him witnessed it how did you see that you know that's a whole other conversation
remember say yeah now Lou I'd say I have one more question for you but that's a lie but I only have
one more question for you strictly because I have to get you the hell out of here in a couple okay I'm
a Gemini like lung walks on the beach and the pinia caladas that's what you're gonna ask isn't it no
November because there's a lot including that last topic right there that we got to go deeper into
it might religion it might it might modify a little bit of our interpretive look
information doesn't threaten God all it does is threaten our understanding of God and there's a
difference right there's a big difference there it's like when the church with Galileo you're
you have answered a lot of tough questions today as well no my own privilege I'm still I'm still
gonna keep some of my skepticism but there's other things that I think you're a really good argument
you not to be a skeptic it's a big difference healthy skepticism is important because it takes
this here in a civil way respectful of each other is proof that you know some of the folks in the
everybody else you know what it is give it a thought get back to me peace and please subscribe
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