as to cause this bend in reality, kind of, where it's not just, you know, government running people's
lives anymore from a purely mundane situation. And it's not the churches from a purely spiritual one.
he wanted to do domestically. And, um, and then on top of that, you had this other separation
layer where Nixon would task Howard Hughes with doing the really dirty stuff. And so there's
in the woods in Maine. He was supposed to be back in the city. He was going to go to take up a position
there's a seance that's held in late 52, early 53. I think it was the New Year's Eve of 52 to 53.
with Andrea Paharic. And one of them is the guy who was the inventor of the Bell helicopter,
right? So... Is that Arthur Young? Arthur Young. So Arthur Young is there with his wife. His wife is
Texas School Book Depository. So wild. So you have this kind of, uh,
blue blooded elite adjacent person who's, uh, uh, whose mother engaged in the seance with
was a form of email in those days. Right. And they were mentioned that the designation was
a special operation or special mission dash X. It was the X files, right? The actual X files.
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including the full link in the description of this video. Such a wild story and then such a weird
olds, we did, you know, which was like a Halloween costume, right? But we kind of pulled it off. Yeah.
And, uh, then we decided we were going to gate crash the funeral for Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy
and students looking at us and, you know, saying, nah, can't be right. So we managed this. But the
thing is, the reason I'm telling you this story is because on our way out, we bump into guys from
to talk to the head of selective service. Mm-hmm .
It was a really strange guy. I'll never forget him. Um, he wore these, you know, elbow patches,
the old country and, uh, there's one particular thing you're taught during ordination. That's a kind
of a secret prayer that is responsible for changing the bread and wine into the body and blood, right?
Which is the whole transubstantiation thing that we learned about in Catholic school.
Well, in the Orthodox church, it's almost the same, kind of similar. But there's a prayer and a gesture
that you do to make this change official, to call down the forces to make this happen. They don't know it
because they didn't go through the actual real training. They went through training to be spies,
and they got enough training to pass as Orthodox priests, but they didn't get everything quite
often. Sometimes the people in Moscow cleverly kept that back a little bit. And that was a signal
to the guys back in the States or abroad, wherever, that the person they were sending over was not to
be trusted, right? He was KGB. So you had priests who were KGB. Now, if you ever watched, there was
American television series called the Americans. It was about a husband and wife, deep sleeper agents
He's now Bishop Holy Prophet Alouya. And the Nigerian embassy is there. The Nigerian consulate,
rather, in New York is there. It's the Nigerian side, not the Biafran side, not the Christian side.
murky territory where art and science kind of mix. And it may be that art will have us have more to
tell us about how consciousness works than science right now. Right. Because we're kind of limited into
Yeah. It feels like a memetic layer that is sort of sub-linguistic or something. You know,
one of my favorite, uh, Terence McKenna quotes is a secret is not something that isn't told. It's
any place else. So we just sat there and drank. Um, I met, um, a lot of, a lot of people from
is it a somebody the way we think of a somebody? Or is it a mechanism of some kind, as Vallee called
it, a control mechanism?
His name is actually mentioned in the book and he was not part of the police at that time. He was
not anywhere near it. Right. So the whole Texas tower sniper thing was completely,
Well, for instance, I was fascinated by this one thing that I had heard about and I could not believe,
we're having a, a deep throat moment because people are trying to tell us something without telling us
something. Right. You know, it's like follow the money, right? They're, they're giving us hints of
equals two, you know, that's one way of formulating this idea, but there's a way of, of getting out of it.
Um, but it's not, it's, it's almost impossible to describe and people have to get to it themselves,
right? They have to get to it on their own path. They have to want to do it. Right. And they have
to be willing to, to follow a path while maintaining a sense of humor. Once you lose that sense of humor,
you're screwed because then you become a fanatic fanatics famously have no sense of humor.
Mm-hmm . And what you need is that sense of humor, which is a sense of what I'm looking at may be
real and it may not be. Yeah.
Isn't it funny? What if it is real? Ha. Yeah.
What if it isn't equally? Right. It's a way of negotiating territory that's very dangerous.
Yeah, that's right. I think like a lot of people get really into synchronicities and when you put
a ton of weight on the synchronicities, you're sort of in really bad territory. Oh yeah.
And when you put no weight in synchronicities, you're also in bad territory. So it's like a
Scylla and Charybdis between extreme randomness, materialist reductionism. And then on the other
groups had this fight, this pitched battle in the streets of Munich. These were occultists fighting
on the streets of Munich, right? It was bizarre as if you had given the golden dawn machine guns
They're reprinted in, I think it's Toland's biography of Hitler. So the poems are there.
He was writing to Odin and Thor. Right. So, and that, okay. And then this is where
We denazified them ourselves. They should never have been many of them. They were Nazis to their death,
is only one government on the planet, and they only have so much territory, right?
The Chinese have a big chunk, and the Russians have it, and all the other countries that have
Isn't he like a Satanist or something?
Yeah. Temple of Set. He found it. He was with LeVay's Satanic Church of Satan.
go off and found a cult. We don't know. Right. Maybe they've gotten that far to realize that they can
create the scientific apparatus to induce a spiritual breakdown or breakthrough.
it was at the time. But so I know what that looks like, right? That camera facing at me. And so there
it was again. And, um, I looked at this thing and I thought, the hell is that? So I put down my
the world. So same. Well, this is what happens. I'm in the airport, the Changi airport, very famous.
I'm in the airport. Uh, I'm, I was on a business trip. I think I was probably going back to Kuala
Lumpur. So I was, you know, going to catch another flight. I'm dragging my suitcase and then someone taps
me on the shoulder and that's not done in Singapore. You know what I mean? It's like,
of course there's tourists there, but people don't, they're not touchy feely in that part of the world.
So I get tapped on the shoulder and I turn around to see who that is. And it's one of the women from
the car, the one who was the driver. Right. And she looks at me and she waves and keeps on going.
I just stare at her and I, I shake myself, you know, and I started following her like dragging my
suitcase, but she's gone. She's just gone in the crowd, just disappeared. But she tapped me on the
shoulder and waved. What? That is, I'm getting the chills. That is such a weird story. Yeah. That
threw me that, that it brought back the whole episode that I had more or less forgotten about.
It brought it all back. If that hadn't happened, I might've forgotten about the first one. Right.
1975, I guess it was, but that's a, that's another long story. How much time do you have?
Uh, I have an infinite amount of time. I do. I have until your flight.
intelligence of any kind in any capacity. That's not there. So then about two years ago, I read an
article. I have a sub stack, which I haven't done anything with in about a year, but I have a sub stack
on my part, on his part, on the part of everybody involved in this thing. But eventually, by 1975, October
12th, as it turned out, it was just serendipitous. All of the translation work had been done, had been
The character of Johnny Depp, however, from what I've been told by the people who worked on the
Polanski film when they were in New York, see Polanski can't come to the States for reasons.
Dr. Randall Bell, well, because Rudolf Hess did something he wasn't supposed to do.
Dr. Randall Bell, got it.
Dr. Randall Bell, he disobeyed Hitler.
all the rest of it was right up Hitler's alley. So he read all this stuff. He was fascinated by it
He couldn't use it to kill people. So Himmler tried to disavow him of that saying,
we do this because he gets people on our side. They love the fire, the torch lit ceremonies,
you know, this is like what we're studying. We're studying consciousness manipulation.
even today that this process is possible. I mean, every, every year during Yom Kippur is the time
when certain groups of Jewish mystics then will then descend the chariot. That's when they're
it's like staring at the sun a little bit, right? Like you can,
you can be really bad for you if you, if you do too much of it. Like, I think, uh,
regular basis. And we're, we're trade. We have contracts or contracts with the aliens. That's the
thing that kills me. Right. Oh, you know, Eisenhower or somebody signed a, you know, a contract with the
to like Richard Dolan, who's a really smart, cool, earnest guy, not one of the weird UFO researchers.
He's great. He's kind of this legendary, you know, and he like lends credence to the MJ 12 documents,
accomplishment in the UFO field, it's like, he's already there. Right. So you have all these guys
who are a part of this thing and you're a part of it. I've met all of them. And you've met all of them.
So yeah, you're a part of it as well. And so do you feel like you have a sense of what's
going on after that experience?
I had a meeting here in Austin. Okay. Um, a couple of years ago. Well,
must be longer than that now. Uh, with Tom DeLonge. Yeah. Chris Mellon, Hal Puthoff,
Jacques Vallée, all in the same room for me, it was a thrill because I had never met Hal or Jacques before.
And I had written about them in various places, but never actually sat in the same room.
And Chris Mellon, right. Who I met for the first time. And we sat, we spent the entire day here
with masses of documents and papers and stuff. And Tom was trying to get, we had a conference room
arranged and all of us were trying to figure out what the hell was going on with the UFO thing.
And we have all these guys here together to brainstorm this, right? Try brainstorming this
with three guys who have NDAs and security clearances up the ass and they cannot talk to you about
unless you have the right words, the right clearances yourself, know the right things to
right? Or the president is come on.
Like they care about any of that.
conversations are really hard to have if you're just a human being. And it's funny to see, like,
you'll see Sean Ryan go on Tucker Carlson and the UFO thing will come up and Sean Ryan will go,
those two things? Cause I, I, you know, I interviewed, you know, this guy, Jason Reza Giorgiani.
Yeah. Like he's a big fan of the Promethean, you know, and he calls himself a Satanist because he's
He talked about it. He was part of the underground sort of Hitler thing that was going on.
Oh, I didn't know that.
That's the problem. Right.
That's when ideology gets involved and it gets really messy. But from my point of view,
in a constant process of discovery. Right. There is no one discovery to be made that's
going to settle everything. So then what is the role of curiosity? Like if, if both you and I are
Okay. Do you see it at all or no? Okay. It's so fascinating. And then you have a really
interesting connection with Bob Lazar, which is you worked at the same company that he did.
So that's pretty interesting as a data point. Yeah. Wow. But that's all it is at this point.
You know, you have to kind of figure out what does that mean? But for me. But to you,
into all these directions. I think the UFO phenomenon is there for that reason. You know,
it's there to say, look, open your freaking eyes and look, right? Maybe it's a ghost. Maybe I'm a ghost,
information from being understood. So look at everything, right? Look at the, look at the sane
stuff, right? First, look at the documents, look at the stuff that's released by FBI or CIA or the
combating positions, the, the positions at, at opposite ends, don't take it as, um, written in stone.
abuse your trust. So you have to be careful of that. I think maybe the easiest way to go about all of
this, if you're interested is to follow instructions that you'll find, for instance, in Stairway to Heaven.
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