Yeah, so my family's Cuban. My father was actually in the Bay of Pigs. My father was a revolutionary.
My father was a wonderful human being, but he's also a very tormented soul.
So he struggled with anger and volatility for a very long time during his life. And as a young person,
I had a really weird background. My there was always this idea, this understanding that after the brigade,
you'll see my father's prisoner number. There was always this understanding that there would be a reinvasion of the by the new generation by by us, by the kids, and part of alpha 66 and try to.
So I had a really weird upbringing as a child, always with smoked field rooms and dim lights and weird conversations.
And so at a very early age, I had my taste of paramilitary. I didn't even know it.
You can call me Lou, if you want. I know I look more like a Bob or a Bill or a Joe. Thank you very much.
Sean, if I can say something just for a moment, this is an incredible honor and privilege of mine. And not for the reasons that most people might think not because.
You have a very successful show and then you have a big audience is because of who you are and what you have done in the service of your country.
There's a lot of people on the outside that will see things that people like you or maybe I've done and they kind of glorify that.
You keep a piece of that. Those experiences with you at all times. And some of us try our best to try to suppress it. But what you have done for our nation.
And I just want to say from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of a very grateful nation, although maybe they don't realize it.
Thank you for what you do. We are only here today having this conversation in a wonderful country that we are in.
For us for the rest of us chickens. Thank you. And thank you. That means a hell of a lot. Thank you.
Let's get into the interview up. So everybody starts with an introduction here. So I think we might wind up doing a little bit of a life story here. I wasn't planning on doing that.
But that sounds super interesting. Lou Elizondo. Lou Elizondo. You're a former US Army counterintelligence special agent and former employee of the office of the under secretary defense for intelligence.
You led a previously covert program within the Department of Defense investigating unidentified aerial phenomenon, UAP.
You came forward to the public about advanced aerospace threat identification program a tip bringing to light with the government knew about these mysterious objects in our skies.
You're a fixture in the UAP transparency movement and have appeared in numerous interviews, documentaries and media segments discussing UAPs.
Thank you. One point of correction. The UAP program at the Pentagon was not a car. I did run covert operations and activities. But that was for another effort while working for the US government.
The the ATIP program advanced aerospace threat identification program, which I which I help lead and working with some of my colleagues was a very sensitive program, but it wasn't covert to to I know people like to and forgive me for that saying that I don't know why it says that.
There's a legal definition of covert activities and then there is from a department of defense, which is title 50 and then from a title 10 or DOD perspective, you have clandestine type operations and sensitive operations went, but ATIP was not covert.
It was it was sensitive and a lot of classified aspects to it, but it was not a title 50 program, although I ran it under when I was wearing my title 50 had under the covert umbrella.
But in itself, it was not a covert program. It was a highly sensitive program with a lot of classified aspects that I ran while I was running covert operations.
Okay. Did you did you start a tip? I did not. No, no, no. It's fascinating actually the way ATIP started. It actually started off as a program called all set the advance of aerospace weapons, weapons, aerospace weapons special application program all set.
but funding together to create a program called all the contract vehicles called all set all set was a big program in order to look at from the Pentagon's perspective, the UAP or UFO in the vernacular, the UFO issue from there, it there was an aspect of all set was kind of think of a big umbrella and then you have a little umbrella fitting underneath this big umbrella, which looked on a lot of stuff to include elements of no now is known to skin walker ranch and other things ATIP was really focused on the UAP.
So all set did to but they were much broader think of a shotgun approach versus a sniper approach the shotgun being all set the sniper being a tip and so I was actually part of the ATIP program, although I worked with a lot of the elements in all SAP. My focus was really nuts and bolts on a tip interesting so that's it was started by Jim Likatsky and and J Straton on the all set side.
So it was three three state centers has started Alaska Nevada and Hawaii is there I mean interesting lot of UAP activity in Alaska. Well, Stephen's had his own UAP counter while it's a pilot believe it or not. No, and let's not forget that you were World War two.
Senator said anyway, Senator anyway actually gave his arm for his country all over veterans. Stevens was a pilot and he had his own UAP experience and then of course interestingly enough you have was Alaska.
He was Alaska. Okay, Ted Stevens. What was his experience? Well, he reported you know classic food fighter experience these objects that would would pursue him while he was a pilot.
And they were performing in ways that he could explain that we're outperforming anything that he was aware of as a pilot.
And so and this by the way, this is not isolated. There's a if you get a chance to talk to members of Congress privately, a lot of them will share with you their own UAP experiences.
I think you know politically they're a little shy to have that discussion publicly now maybe it will come out. But you'd be surprised how many people members of Congress have had their own experience.
Is there a lot of I mean the reason I brought up the three states Nevada, obviously a lot of activity. Alaska, a lot of activity Hawaii. Is there a lot of activity down there?
Well, there is some I would I don't it's hard to say there's a lot. So there's an issue with Hawaii. It's population density and surface area.
So Nevada Alaska lots of landmass when you have people all around so you get pretty much a good persistent eye in the sky. Maybe there's a farmer maybe there's someone driving a truck.
Maybe there's a military person or a military basis. Hawaii is a much smaller landmass. So you have fewer people in a smaller area looking up towards the sky.
So we don't really know if Hawaii is necessarily a hotspot. We do have a military presence there as we know. And we do have a couple of sensitive facilities there because of geographically where it's located.
We don't know if there's actually an increase or a decrease simply because we don't have enough persistent I guess a H.T.s award persistent surveillance there.
But we just don't remember it's a couple of futile islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. And so unless you're right there at the time something's happening, you're not going to know.
You mentioned Skim Walker branch. I'm just going to I don't want to lose anything. No, no, if you've done any work out there with Brandon or well, so before Brandon there was a gentleman named Bob Bigelow from any big a low aerospace. By the way, this is a this is a gentleman who made his fortune in the hotel industry and then decided to jump to aerospace and actually succeeded.
Right, so this is a guy who put together these inhabitable inflatable type modules that could hook on to the to the ISS space station, which by the way, they're there right now. He actually has them connected.
So he actually helped fund through his own money a lot of what off-sap originally did to include Skim Walker ranch. He owned the ranch before Brandon Fubolo did and there was a very robust research effort ongoing people don't know that was just a bunch of who he know wasn't a lot of real stuff going on a lot of real research.
And I had access to a lot of those files that wasn't my portfolio specifics. I don't usually talk about it. There's other people that are far more qualified than me to talk about Skim Walker ranch. And by the way, there was more than one one ranch people don't know that their other facilities.
Wow. I mean, I would imagine there would be but yeah, I've been trying to get Bigelow on here for a while. He's an elusive guy. And then at an operation, I actually shared an elevator with them.
And I didn't say anything. I don't want to bug them. But you know, I just he is a let him be he is I consider him an American hero and I don't say that lightly.
And what he has done for our nation. So, you know, I'm I'm eternally grateful for what what he's done. And there's a part of that story that hasn't come out yet. I think I think our country owes him a great deal of gratitude for what he's been able to do for our nation.
I interviewed Brandon. He's a friend of mine now. And you know, he did he did not give over any of the prior research to Brandon when he bought the ranch. So they're starting from square one.
So we have a fresh set of eyes on it and remain objective. Maybe that's why or could be, hey, you know what? I paid a lot of money and put a lot of time into this. I consider this information proprietary.
I mean, those are just some of the what is I don't know why I've never had a chance to ask Mr. Fugel that question directly.
But I do know Bob Bigelow and he never I don't think he'd ever do anything just out of spider to be mean. I'm sure he had a very good reason for that.
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Well, you need to pay to bring a few gold.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we have a Patreon account. There's a subscription account. There are a total supporters for you.
And they've been here with us since the beginning. Fantastic. It's growing. It's a community now. And I wouldn't be sitting here without them. And neither would you be. So.
Great. One thing I offer them is to ask each and every guest a question that comes on the show. Absolutely.
And why do you think this information has been withheld for so long? Wow. Wow. Jake. Great, great question. So let me see if I can deconstruct this a little bit.
You can't do it. It is it is against we used to do it as a nation and finally Congress stepped in after all these nasty little things that we were doing like the syphilis experiments, for example, or the CIA and the LSD experiments, right. We did some pretty nasty things.
And you want to keep that classified. But the fact that North Korea has atomic weapons is not a classifiable fact. Just like we're not alone in the cosmos, these things are here. It's becoming the worst kept secret. It's now a liability.
There are two fundamental, two fundamental philosophies about secrets. Some people believe secrets are like fine wine. And the longer you keep a cork on it, the better it gets, the longer it ages.
I disagree with that. I've told people all along since day one secrets are perishable. They have a shelf life. They're like vegetables in your refrigerator. And if you leave them in there too long, they're going to rot and they're going to stink. And then you got a really big mess on your hands.
So if you allow a secret to go on longer than what's necessary, it actually will start working as a liability against you. And ultimately we've seen with the JFK files, it will start to erode the faith and confidence and public trust in the very institution that it was trying that secret was there to try to protect.
This is no different with the UAP topic. It is so obvious at this point and it's in other and our adversaries know it's real to to keep them your fact of the existence of UAP from the public knowledge. I think it's a disservice.
I don't think any organization like I said or government has a right to keep that fundamental truth away from the American people. That's not their business to do that. Now if you want to say, well, how these things actually work and because we obviously don't want North Korea some rogue nation having that capability to hurt us, I got you.
You know, there's an old saying from Bob Marley, you can fool some people sometimes but you can't fool all the people all the time. And I think that's where we're at. I think we now have to reconcile and come back to the table and say, yeah, turns out we've been investigating things for a long time even though we haven't told you or...
maybe we didn't tell Congress and we didn't even tell presidents, certain presidents what we were doing. Now, is that a problem? Yes. But we can figure that out. We can get over that hill.
What we can't do is afford to erode any more faith and confidence. The faith and confidence right now in our government at least was at all time low. Most people do not trust their government. That's a problem in a democracy. That's a very...
And this is a case, I think this is why I'm having this conversation. The government needs to hear, look, it's time for you to be honest with the American people. I know what I was part of.
200,000 years of existence has modern homo sapiens sapiens as a species. And only really been the last 100 years we had the technology to even begin to explore our cosmos.
Look, when these things, food fighters, we talked a little bit about Senator Ted Stevens and Allied pilots in these these food fighters during World War II.
Let me ask you a question Sean. Right on the heels of World War II, we have this rash of flying saucers being seen and UFOs that were in some cases raid our returns in the early 50s doing 10 to 13,000 miles an hour.
Who had that capability at the time if we didn't well. Where was Russia? They were just entering the atomic age themselves China. They're in the middle of a famine. Right. So there's no one who had that capability. I always use a analogy. That would be like like going back into the 40s.
I would be like going into King Tut's tomb for the very first time. And as you're breaking down the rock wall and peering into the vault. All of a Sunsing of fully assembled 747 jet sitting in the tomb.
A lot of it trying to research these things that are very real. You don't spend millions of millions of dollars and billions of dollars on a wild goose chase. You don't do it. And hiding black budgets and things. You do it because something's real in legit.
I think a lot of people think maybe the Germans had some higher technology. Well, they did. Well, they certainly did. We know that. The German Vundervoffa program, Wonder Weapon program, had the Messerschmitt.
In fact, what Operation Paperclip and World War II ended? What do we do? We stole it all and brought it here. Right? The Vernivon Brown and the Saturn V rocket. That was just, I hate to say, but that was a glorified V2 rocket.
Okay, but there was enough there, there enough data to suggest that whatever they were doing worked or could help them with the war effort. So they invested a lot of time and money into that.
And that's not just, you know, I was mentioning this because you said Germans, but other countries did the same thing. There's other countries that were always looking for that strategic advantage. What would it take for me to have a decisive advantage on the battlefield in the battle space?
I mean, I also think that maybe as Americans, we're a little arrogant thinking that we, you know, that nobody else could have this kind of technology because we're so, we're so, we're so advanced.
So if you were a country that has a super secret technology, would you want to advertise the world that you have it? Well, it's kind of what I'm getting at. Right. So it is possible.
I won't say what they are, but we know that and it's a problem for us. But if you go back to the end of World War II, or really who are some who are some that are I can't say that I don't want to, you know, there's, I want to let our folks in government do their job and they don't need me spewing out vulnerabilities that we might have where other countries are ahead of us.
But again, let's go back to what we originally said here. If you look at this from a temporal perspective, time perspective, at the end of World War II, we really were the only world superpower at the time.
We dropped the atomic bomb and and and decisively ended World War II. What was referred to as a greatest generation then began to invest in the United States and became the world superpower dominant power.
There was no real near peer other than the Russians at the time. And they were still nowhere near what we were able to do. So I can buy now if you say that there is a foreign adversary that has his capability.
Okay, I doubt but maybe, but not 70 years ago. And let's let's look at this because Marco Rubio, the new Secretary of State, when he was a senator said something very interesting.
To put this into perspective, we spend billions with a beat billions of dollars each year to maintain a strategic advantage from an intelligence perspective, all 17 agencies of the intelligence community.
To to no more than our enemies. Right. Now imagine if there was a country that had the ability to develop a technology and deploy this technology that could come into our country completely unimpeded.
That would be the greatest intelligence failure this country has ever experienced, eclipsing that of even 9-11 because despite the billions of dollars that we invest, there was a single indication or shred of information over seven years at some country had managed to develop this technology.
Think of the resources and infrastructure required to develop and deploy a technology like that. Right. And you didn't get one shred of evidence in 70 years that country actually was doing that. Right.
So it simply doesn't make sense from a time perspective that some country had this technology 70 years ago. Now, sure, maybe I doubt it, but I would buy that more that OK, yeah, China Russian the last five years has been able to develop this.
Not that look 2004. How many people had quadcopters drones didn't even really exist in 2004 yet. These fixed wing remote control airplanes that you threw in combat, maybe for 15 minutes to get a site picture on something.
Well, we also though we both know that a lot of these, you know, the wars that we were in has to do a lot with with with KBR. Oh, with an elevator.
So for that advanced and I mean, we can end things that quickly, there's not really a lot of money in that. So they have to develop all this other shit that's, you know, the problem with that is that we dance when we start really that advanced so that we can spend all our fucking money.
You know, I mean, well, open all this shit that's not that's not at the top because if we just want straight to the top and it just ends, you know, for a meeting.
Well, we, I think I mean, it's certainly possibility. You're right, Sean. It is something we have to consider. But again, I go back to how is he talks about that? How, no, you're right. How is the T well because that gets into a very uncomfortable part of the conversation.
For military for intelligence, we do it in places out of the prying eyes of eyewitnesses. We do it in a place where it's going to be safe.
And I don't have to worry about a potential mid air collision, right. I'm not going to test this capability without letting, let's say the fleet commander know that, hey, while you're out there in that range, I'm going to be testing my stuff there and see how you react.
You don't do that because you could have mid air collisions, like safety issues. I mean, it's you, that's why you have a joint staff to coordinate these type of things and say, look, I'm going to do an exercise.
And if I want to, if I want to test a new capability, I'm going to do an area 51. I'm going to do it out of the prying eyes of anybody in a place that's safe and oh, by the way, if it crashes, I don't have to have a recovery issue on my hands, right.
Where what is going to see and I have a big profile. So I, I don't, and we've already said for the record. And certainly when I was in the government, we looked at blue force capabilities. We've got some pretty cool stuff. I'll tell you that. I mean, even area 51 though, it's not, you're talking right after World War II objects going 13 mile 13,000 miles in low earth atmosphere. That's, that's not area 51 isn't big enough to conceal.
That's my point. It's exactly my point. If you're going to test a capability like that, you're going to an article if you really have to, right. Or you're going to drop it from the bottom of B 52 at an altitude of 60,000 feet and test what you got to test, which by the way, we've done the X 15 is a perfect example.
But we do it in a way that is it's safe and out of the prying eyes of people that are not read onto the program. You don't test it right off the coast of California in the middle of a fleet exercise with aircraft carrier dozens of destroyers and support vehicles and submarines and F 18s. You don't do that. That's not how you, you conduct a classified program because too many people see it.
So I think there's a, you know, there's an argument there to be made that, you know, obviously I would rather this technology be ours and Russian or Chinese, but I think we're pretty clear now as a government. It's not our technology and our government has already said for the record. Very senior people. This is not our technology.
So if it's not ours, it's somebody's who's is it. What's the X 15 X 15 is a rocket powered aircraft. So right on the heels of the supersonic age. We had just brought the X one was the experimental aircraft that Chuck Yeager used to break the sound barrier for the first time.
So it was a hundred sixty three miles an hour at sea level plus or minus.
The X 15 was a hypersonic vehicle that was to take people into space, believe it or not. In fact, the pilots have astronaut wings. It is a think of a little long skinny pencil with stubby wings on it.
So the X 15 is a kind of landing gear and has skids and is dropped from the wing of a B 52 at high altitude and then accelerates up to hypersonic speeds and goes to the upper limits of our atmosphere and into a low Earth orbit. In fact, if you look at that platform, the X 15 not only does have wings and control surfaces, but because of fly so high, it has to have thrusters.
Just like a space shuttle and that was really when you look at how we were testing. I think there are only six of those ever built. They started off with twin 500 horsepower 500,000 horsepower engines. Then they switch it to a general electric one million horsepower engine.
In fact, there was even a death associated with the X 15 because apparently had an issue with telemetry and if flew so high that when it was coming back down to Earth, it burned up. It didn't reenter properly and unfortunately the test pilot was killed.
And so the X 15 was and so when you compare that to objects that are doing 10,000, 13,000 miles an hour and we had barely broken 4,000 miles an hour with the X 15. Again, who had that technology and more importantly, who had that technology to deploy it over the United States because we were seeing these things and they've been reported over and over again since the late 1940s. There's a very interesting document. Sean, I'll share with you.
That really I think emphasizes and laid on in the interview, if you want me to read it to a will. There's a very interesting document.
Let's read it right now. We'll be cheap. No, we don't forget. Actually, you know what? It's on my phone and I'll have my phone here. Let's take a break.
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So I think Sean you'd be really surprised to know that there's documentation, historical documentation, that substantiates what we've been dealing with and we've been dealing with it for quite a while. So if I have your permission, I'd like to read something out loud and let's do it.
I'm also a lot slower than I used to be. Tell me about it. Yeah. I got my kid a trampoline. I tried to burn some energy off. I got on there thinking like, oh, yeah, this will be great.
So I'd like to read to you just briefly a very, it's a two page official document and it's the, we look at the letterhead. It's headquarters United States Air Force Washington, DC with another header, the Inspector General US Air Force.
It has, well, people a lot of people don't know about it has been officially released and downgraded from its classified original form. Okay. Do the freedom of information act. But it's been lost to a lot of people. A lot of people even aware it exists. And they've got a whole bunch of these. But let me just read you one if I can to kind of emphasize what I'm saying.
25 May 1950. That's from 1950 it is from 1950 and there are a treasure trove of these things that anybody can look at now and see and this is not world recording Lou Elizondo. I'm not telling you this.
Your government is telling you this not me the same government that later on told people nothing to see here folks in secret. They're saying there's a lot of things to see here folks and we got to pay attention.
Yeah, you can re stay right so you can sense the frustration that that action isn't being done. There's there's CIA documents to talk about how we're going to go ahead and collect information on these things. There's radar reports track reports multiple radar systems tracking these things to 13,000 miles an hour in a low earth atmosphere environment with a friction of air is put it this way the SR 70 Locking wife 12 a SR 71 Blackbird when that thing is doing about 3,200 miles an hour the entire aircraft had to be made out of the
Those are the that's the heat you're talking about now that's at 3,400 miles an hour imagine 13,000 miles an hour by the way by the way no signature no sonic boom no acoustic signature no contrail like you see with a jet plane when you're flying at 33,000 feet no signature at all.
I got a question for you totally off you know I was just thinking about the recording stuff and you've obviously been involved with a lot of the stuff and you can't talk about everything but why is it always these fucking reports that have been you know I mean what about the initial interview you know somebody goes out there and does the initial fucking interview why why don't we have where are those recordings.
one person keep in mind when you want to get all the different perspectives right so the idea of a report like this isn't to just give you one compelling story it's to take all those reports that you're getting from various different
member pilots off of OSI agents military personnel right you it's in the report so obviously there's a lot of people reporting these things and so this type of report is really an
amalgamation of all those reports to send up to headquarters what you don't typically do and I can tell you this as a as a former special
person who's taking all the reports and create a comprehensive single report and says this is what we're doing so that two page
call law enforcement sensitive some of them are intelligence sensitive and a lot of them are very very classified because you're talking to people
believe me and say this is one of my greatest greatest disappointments in myself professionally speaking so when I was a young younger agent one of my
jobs was to go to a particular military base where they had all the old archives of classified reports back to Korean war Vietnam and there was a huge archive in the
basement of a particular office on Fort Mead I won't say where it is where the Army and some other elements kept all their old historical reports intelligence reports talking to sources it
when we didn't really have very good technology everything had to be hand jammed into a machine and scan them cataloged and blah blah blah so very labor intensive so the Army decided OK anything over 25 years old unless it's obvious we need to keep it we want you to shred it.
And now we look back and say wait a minute that's that could be considered evidence you're right but that was what we were told to do and I wouldn't have to try to cover their budget just too much in room after room after file
But that's what was going on. So I suspect a lot of this may have just been lost a lot of it may have been chewed up burned up over the years shredded.
You know, you have people that come and go they put something in a safe or five jorken security container with an ex X 10 lock on it.
Someone forgets a combination they drill it out of this document here go ahead and shred the documents easier from 25 years ago nobody cares.
Some of just maybe that incompetence maybe some of it is not pretty sure a lot of it's not deliberate people just don't know what the hell they look at it.
They see a project code name blue Phoenix. Okay, so I don't know what that is.
So what a you would mention ancient Egypt earlier and it was just an analogy.
You know, what if we want in there and there was a 747 and one of the fire pyramids?
Well, is any a lot of people think that the Egyptians, the, you know, ancient, whatever, whatever the tribe was and or, you know, the Peruvians, you know, all these
I think there's a lot of people on the outside of the government, and certainly are.
So, you know, there's a lot of people trying to find congruencies.
I can tell you when I was in a tip program, several of us spent a good deal of our time.
Looking at ancient script of human beings, whether it's ancient Sumerian and Cuneiform or Hieroglyphics or runes and looking at a lot of different things because several of the UAP that we were investigating were reported to have some sort of writing on the outside.
And so, the idea was, is there a way to decipher these by looking at ancient human writing and see if there was any overlap?
Was there ever a time where maybe some of that ancient script that we have was actually influenced by an external source, meaning some saw something in the sky that landed and had these writing on it.
A lot of them have very similar type Genesis stories.
A thought, an idea, an order, something.
I'm going to tell you something. I write it down in a document and give it to you.
Sometimes we're communicating, you know, like if you see a Jeep jamboree and you see a sign that says,
the way we look at data, whether it's a magazine or a poor or whatever it might be, dictionary or a Bible,
you have to have eyes. That's why blind people use a braille because they can't read.
So whoever wrote that, A, is smart enough to know that they want to communicate a message.
And so that's a huge deal because that's fundamental.
You're talking a higher functioning brain because there is no animal in right now on Earth, other than humans,
That's a distinctly human thing that's a very high brain functioning thing, or at least for most people,
and that they have a higher functioning part of the brain that can take those symbols and those symbols have a meaning.
And so that was kind of a pretty big moment for us in A-tip because we realize,
hey, there's maybe a lot more similarity here than we think, right?
We haven't released it yet, but I mean, she talks about a lot of this stuff,
At a senior academic, share some information with me.
And it was in Latin and it was a communication over 2,000 years old between a Roman soldier and a Roman general.
So think about that for a minute.
Yeah, using copper and stoneware filled with a solution, probably orange juice,
That's a fact, right?
And there's a wall.
But can you build a pyramid?
I mean, how much resources would it take now to build a pyramid?
But it's not a pyramid.
we have a hard time replicating with all the tunnels inside of it.
There was a discovery done talking about Egypt about ancient mummies,
So, there's a lot of mystery with our ancients and our ancestors that, you know,
Look at the Aztec for able to do with a calendar and predict even lunar cycles and to include
So, I am not as dismissive, and this is why going back to A-Tip and looking for UFOs,
You have to do proper research if you really want to solve a mystery.
When you know as well as either, you're talking to a three or four-star general,
I don't give a crap about that stuff.
To keep it folks from a national security perspective,
you're really not going to spend a whole lot of resources looking in the past
from a military and a national security perspective.
I don't care about Japan's use of a Mitsubishi Zero back in World War II,
I've talked to a, I talked to skip out water, drove a monogool.
I've done a handful of these guys.
And I interviewed Andrew Huberman about we, we had a little bit of a talk about that and how,
I mean, is that a possibility?
I mean, that could be a, that could be a deer carcass next to an airplane crash.
You know, I mean, I'm not saying that's what it is, but, you know, put a fancy term behind it,
you know, like non-human biologics, okay, well, is that a, a dead mouse?
Well, intelligence refers that there's a higher functioning of the brain, right?
You hear that term use a lot, human consciousness, you know, but what does that mean?
Then you talk to a neuroscientist and they say, you know, it's actually a quantum process.
There's, there's another part of the human being, another component that makes a human
decides a brain in a body. So we have to first agree what that means. Secondly,
My background is micro, I went to school professionally to be a microbiologist and an immunologist.
So I am a disciple of science always have been always will be, I was never a science fiction kid.
I always tell people I was more of a GI Joe kid than it was a Star Wars kid. So I was trained in
an agent, right, which is just a fax me. I'm kind of guy just give me the data. I don't care what
But with that said, let's take a quick exercise on human consciousness and and trying to decide for
what that means. You said you have a daughter, right? Do you love your daughter?
compare us to a banana, I think we surely 75% of our DNA with a banana and like 99% with the
chimpanzee. But if you were to compare a DNA, yeah, there's some differences. But for the most part,
really physically that different. And then if I asked you about your brain, well, maybe it's a brain
you go to a neural surgeon, they're kind of the same as mine and Meduila Blangada and the frontal
you killed them by right. But in reality, it's a dog. Now, it's not a human, but because we are
you've been not alive. Why? Why people refer to their boats as a her, right? Oh, she's a beautiful
whatever biases they have. We have those two and it's a way for us to relate to something that is,
it's a way for us to know the unknowable potentially. And so we'll be talking about human consciousness
and is it possible that these things are also part of a larger consciousness network? Well,
will refer to that as as a soul or a chi or an aid or put whatever name you want to put on a spirit.
judge our environment in the universe. And for millennial, a almost sapient sapient and modern
Earth has been around for four and a half billion years. So, so modern human have only been here in
a blink of an eye. Really, just just say, yeah, pop in and and here we are. We have five fundamental
a radio telescope, what do you see? Oh, you see all sorts of new stuff. You see Medjolene clouds,
lies beyond that. Imagine if you had cell phone signal, a cell phone vision, and now you could see
And then you have a scalability issue as human beings. If you look, I tell people, if you really
pixels large, a little blue fuzzy dot. What that dot is, is when we sent out the Voyager spacecraft
on one of its last commands, we told it to turn around and take a picture of home of Earth.
have a fear, every person that ever lived in history, every person that ever died, ever is all on
is about 40 billion B billion light years. Now what's a light year? It's the time it takes in the
distance traveled by a photon of light in one year. So how fast does light actually travel 186,000
miles per second? That's seven and a half times around our planet in one second. Multiply that
to a year. And now multiply that to 40 billion years, right? That is an enormous distance. And that's
about a universe 100 billion light years and human beings is infinitesimally small spec right in
limited. It's like trying to look at the grand canyon through a soda straw. It's incomprehensibly
universe. And so when you talk about human consciousness, I know this is a very long-winded way to have
we live in a three-dimensional space with three axes, x, y, z, and x as plus time as a function of
the more there was a deviation in the time on that atomic cesium clock. Now, how is that possible
time, the further you get away from a massive object, time runs at a different rate, literally at
a different rate. And so we now know that the very notion of time isn't actually linear. And so
you can imagine if I were to ask you a question, Sean, I say, Sean, give me your,
give me your simplest and less than a sentence, few words as possible. If I were to ask you, Sean,
what's your definition of the past? What would it be? And it's not a trick question. You
they'll define for me the present, what is it? Well, the present isn't a moment of time.
It's actually a transition process where the future becomes the past. And it happens so quickly
And it's not really a point. It's a process. And so if you look at, for example,
let's look at a cigar where the ashes I've used this example before where the ashes of a cigar
realize it's a cloud. The electron is both there and not all at the same time. It's this weird
duality principle because scientists believe that at that small of a level, the electrons are so small
have speculated that human consciousness is actually a quantum process. It's actually your brain
is like a quantum computer. And that's where that's the realm. That's the domain in which human
consciousness lives. And if that's the case, it's a possible other higher forms of life.
enter a room, some have speculated there's some sort of nonverbal communication going on.
that unique or special? In fact, many forms of life share that consciousness, a consciousness,
can look up and translate, perhaps it was a survival technique. Perhaps we needed this type of
Well, a geomic monocle talks about this a little bit. When I interviewed him, he talks about
has made us a lot more efficient. Right. Is we used to be. Correct. And the communications,
while there were no words, it was a lot more efficient. I knew what you were thinking.
You knew what I was thinking. Look, people say, well, that's a bunch of hoey. We're doing it now.
We have, we can put on helmets and you can have an Air Force pilot sitting in a room with his
thoughts, be able to fly a drone. There's talk about video games and these people that are really
good gamers. It was only a few months ago that some gentleman, Quadruplegic, had a chip put in his
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So to say, well, that's a bunch of healing that technology would never exist. Hey, buddy,
do I think about when people say that? You know, we have to, there's a lot we have to unpack here. We
my own experiences and some of the work that we did in A-Tip and some other efforts.
I love my car. Well, I love my kids. Well, that's a different type of love. Well, wait a minute,
things. So maybe consciousness is the same way. Maybe there's not a single definition for what
What I'm comfortable to talk about is that early in my career, I was brought into a very interesting
remote viewer for the United States Army. And that was my first experience. I was brought into a very
didn't know what they wanted from me. Eugene had me do some things, I guess to test if I was a good
permanently. And I wound up having a regular normal job. So you were going to be a remote viewer?
Well, they were, I got trained to do some of it. I didn't say I was a good one. There's a guy
out there, a lot better, and gals a lot better than I was. But I can tell you it works.
we call Kit, Kit worked with me and how it worked with me on A-Tip.
You know, the US government has had a long interest in, in remote viewing.
predict a lottery number, he says what's correct is what can be verified, which I tend to agree with.
Sure. You know, and Joe had two that stick out to me. He, he remote viewed a mountain in Alaska.
non-human beings inside of a mountain. Sound alike, basically, like some type of space center.
removed you and said, um, you got into a motorcycle accident when you were younger. It was a pretty bad
motorcycle accident. Total your motorcycle. And it was a, it was an Enduro Yamaha motorcycle. And
you turn and you said, no, actually, it was a Honda or a Kawasaki. Is that person right or wrong?
successfully located a down Russian supersonic test plane that was being flown in a crash
interference. You know, the human, that's why I say remote viewing should never be taken as a
just like when you're collecting intelligence now, you have a human source, but you never just go
a comprehensive capability that has multiple sources of feeds of information. And then you
there's a book. Really interesting book. This really all kind of kind of blew up when there was
a army captain, his Ranger, sustained a TBI in an exercise. I think it would have been bright start
in Egypt. And he had a wound. To his head, I think it was called by a graze bullet that caused
into the start gate program and to remove because he's actually a very good remote viewer.
anymore. I think he had maybe had some complications as a result of it. But that was really the first
pick up the book, psychic warrior. I'm not promoting, by the way, I'm not promoting, it's a good book,
or it's a bad book, but it's an interesting way to kind of get a sneak peek behind what,
there was a lot of follow-up on that. So now we have technology, right? We can confirm
My folks, now there was a very interesting boy home, like how might get mad at me for this.
No, I can talk about this. So as a result of removing some of the reports were very classified.
not mistaken. It might be mistaken. So let me just caveat. It was with a very good
remote viewer where their target was a Russian submarine. And they were providing the description
on this new. It might have been a typhoon class submarine. I don't know, probably before that. But it
but do you want to know what's following it? They're like, yeah, in goes, there's a UFO following
American patriot that did a law for his country. Took a lot of crap for what he was doing.
something I think we both can appreciate quite a bit. But in reality, you know, he did a law for
his country. And a lot of that was extremely, extremely successful. And the fidelity of the
Well, that's, look, I'm not a quantum physicist. You know, I didn't sleep at a holiday
even expressed, but I'm not a quantum physicist. I would talk to folks like that, talks maybe
about Eric Davis, Dr. Eric Davis as well. Hal Pudoff, Kit Green, Kit Green is also a medical doctor
All right, let's, let's get a little side track there. Maybe I'll actually hit this outline eventually.
with A-Tip. How did that happen? Well, they weren't the same. It wasn't the same journey. So I,
I grew up, I think I kind of mentioned I had a bit of a dysfunctional upbringing.
So my father was a revolutionary. He was a revolutionary in Cuba. At the time, there was,
overthrew the country in a coup. And Castro had promised freedom and democracy and elections and
had a little bit of support from the US government to do that. And he took over. And when he took over,
he very quickly turned and pronounced himself pretty much president for life, which is a dictator,
not a president. And he sided with the Russians. And that was a problem. So my father basically
a tooth that had, I guess, become, it had erupted and he had an infection. So they did surgery on him
without anesthesia. And for food, they, they ate boiled horse hoof, right? So a really bad experience.
bombshell model. She worked as a playboy bunny. She was a model. Are you serious? Yeah.
was this beautiful bombshell, very free spirit. And she had a really troubled past herself. So
until they said they were married. They never were married. So as a young kid, I remember living in a
30 minutes of the day they had, again, the romance of the century, the other 23 and a half hours were,
from being very successful entrepreneur and restaurateur to now working in a wood factory. And I was
making more as a bus boy at Red Lobster than my father was making at the wood factory. And they
bullied bad, bad, bad, bad. I was, I was a pretty interesting kid. So because of that, I got angry.
and I realized I was pretty good at it. And I started fighting a lot, too much. And my public
school, I wasn't very popular. Really rough, really dark times for me, bounced around a lot,
I went to a big public school. I went to a school that was still engaged in the now controversial
and underprivileged kids, and they would bus them into a different school to try to give them
opportunity. So ROTC was kind of a last to chefford. If you were a bad kid getting in trouble all
if you weren't a popular kid in a joke, and you went to ROTC, you went to juvenile hall.
Really, it was kind of that way. I had a different experience. All of a sudden met people that
And so I went into college very poor. So I had to pay for it. So I became a bouncer at a lot of
during the day, and then I could make money at night cash under the table. And that was a way I was
still very angry. And I just wanted to teach bullies a lesson and a lot of hurt inside. So I
a very good portion of my younger years. And it was, you know, anger can be like rocket fuel.
other reason. Self-delusion can really be a powerful thing when you're younger. So I went to college,
I'm going to go to medical program. I'm going to be a microbiologist and an immunologist. You? Yeah.
Fortunately, it worked out to my benefit. I actually enjoyed it a lot. And use some of that later on
in my life and my career. So finishing college, I was in a lot of debt. Really, not a whole lot of
options. I didn't want to spend the rest of my life looking through a petri dish in a microscope.
I joined the Army. Now, what I didn't say is early on when I was a young man in high school.
And before that, as a young, even seven years old, my father had this idea that I would
were always taught weird paramilitary skills. How to disassemble a collation of cough. And what's
the difference between a 223 or 5.6 and a 6.2 by 37 in versus 39. And my dad, when I was eight,
taught me how to fly a plane by 11. I was scuba diving. How to build explosives and provide
for a kid to learn. But my father had this desire, I guess, for me to accomplish the mission that
I remember as a kid and he was volatile man. He was volcanic when he blew up man. He was,
But he was also exceedingly volatile. And as a kid, I was terrified of my father because of that,
of my head and in my ears. He said, look son, if you want to be a leader, you first know what,
you first must know what it means to follow. So I enlisted. I enlisted in the army. And had a chance
and say, oh, you're this hero. I'm not a hero. I know I'm not a hero because I know what a real
various situations. And they're like, oh, my God, that's a year so brave. No, there's people out there
that had a hell of a lot worse than that a lot more than me. You know, the real heroes are the
people come, oh, a little hero, save it for that shit for somebody who actually believes it.
I'm not a hero. I'm just a patriot doing his job. So long story short, in the army for a little
bit, and then I got recruited out of there into a special program called the special. Maybe it was,
Let me just say that, but it was an opportunity that I that I relished. So I joined a special
activities program. Did that for a while during that process of the recruitment is when Gene
Lesbian came into my life and I learned a little bit about the remote viewing program, you might say.
that was arguably probably not so effective. But was that plan Colombia was a US government effort.
Usually with Charlie third of the seventh special forces, there was a DMZ area,
doing counterinsurgency counter narcotics missions, where we were trying to pump in a lot of American
Kashi Kanabada. And I programmed that place a bit. It was crazy. It's been a little time there.
Good. So we had a small intel. That's where I met General Mattis for the first time.
found myself there in Middle East quite a bit. And then I racked cooks off and I did some work
with that effort. And then I wound up promoting myself to a desk job. So I went from being a
some cross-border operation stuff and to getting a job in DC. Kind of what happened.
You get promoted to a point where they pull you out of the field and they'll take, okay, now
And then it was in 2008. I was at the time, the director of national intelligence as a senior
Kent Island in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay, which was great to raise a family, right? That's
crazy people in the town. But my commute was terrible. So if you know a little bit where the direct
actually at work. It was brutal. So I had an opportunity come back to the Pentagon for a one-year
how do we get national level intelligence counterterrorism information that's classified down to a level
where people can do something with it. But they don't have a security clearance. So how do you do it?
at a particular location. They still don't want me to talk about so I won't. But beautiful corner
talked to me, they say, hey, we know you have a CI background. And we'd like you to consider
working with us in a special project. Didn't know at all what it was. Had no idea. And after several
sure, we set up a meeting and I went to another undisclosed location where they were. He was at.
I remember going up there and it was, it was our, he, the epitome of a true, whatever you think,
a rocket scientist in your brain. That's who this guy was. Kind of disheveled hair,
tie a little crooked glasses. And he happened to me at the time, the US government's premier rocket
a full out of the blue. I'm like, what? And this whole time, the two people that had come to my
are Chinese were trying to expose them, but I get it. You know, America's running a secret UFO
focus of A-Tip. And it was to look at, I realized at that point, the US government was taking very,
And the more we looked into it, the more we realized not only was it real, but it's a real national
the UAP was able to turn off an entire flight of, of, of news. Now, what's a flight of
new to think of a Christmas tree light where each light is a, is a, is a, is a military, is a nuclear
a UAP. And by the way, one of the intelligence reports I have, and I can say I can, I can read it
of a sudden boom, the entire flight goes down. And only when the UFO left, did the, the, the
that the same thing happened in Russia, but there, they were turned on to a ready position.
We have a capability of technology that's been demonstrated that can enter our airspace
unnuclear technologies. Now, if that's not a national security issue or, or, or a, a Department
definition of a national security threat. So that was what, that was the impetus, I think, for
a lot of my colleagues in mind. And now, you know, being the new kid on the block, I'm kind of
walking around with like, oh my gosh, wow, wow, wow, that's real. Wait a minute, Roswell's real.
you're going to learn a lot here, buddy. You know, buckle up, it's going to be a wild ride and boy,
we're running the program. We had a facility, specially built at a SAPF level, SAPF facility,
level. And so, they said, here's a catch, you need to need, because we have this existing
you, we'll give it to you because we, this is a live bill at this point. We're keeping the lights on,
friends back, if we can't get a memorandum of approval from the secretary of the Air Force,
briefing them on a weekly basis, weekly basis. Yeah, this is important. Louis, I had the pilots come
I got the videos, I got the briefings, I got, you know, stack a crap this big every time coming in.
we were getting, we had these ships, the Roosevelt, that's being literally stocked by UAP on a daily
You're looking for a gotcha. The problem is that people in the head shed didn't want to do anything
until the boss until we had a, at the time, our undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, the US,
Wasn't a Senate confirmed person. So, they wanted to wait and wait until they got somebody into
weight. He needs to know now that what's happening in the field, I can't keep a lid on it anymore.
we got a problem boss. There's something in our skies. We don't know what it is. We don't know how
it's interested in our stuff. It's not a great conversation to have with somebody, you know,
work with a guy in the field, you know, General Madison is a very serious guy, very learned. He's
a guy who wants more information, not less. And then last but not least, I suspect what they
didn't want to do is give the boss some information, only to be asked a week later by the media.
readiness. And it's a problem you're going to have to deal with. And could you been in touch with
He was a great leader in the military politically. I don't know. I'm not talking politics right. I
did a lot of politician. But he was a very effective leader. And let's not forget, look,
almost a year later today, he resigned too, right? That's what you do when you can't,
when you can't fix something internally, you don't become a problem inside. You leave. You do what
new administration is going to do a lot like what? Well, let me let the administration first get a
handle on what's going on and decide what they want to do. You know, a nuclear facility isn't just
carbon defense, not just air force, you have a Department of Energy there. You have all sorts of
different organizations there that are part of the calculus, right? So you've got, you've got a lot
of equities. First of all, then you get a handle on what's going on. And by the way, for the record,
happened to this country. I get a lot of shit for it, but this is something I know several individuals
a capability we don't understand, then I need to defend against that, right? Well, I mean, you know,
then everything becomes a political calculus. And that's fine until you talk about national security.
the the egg-shaped craft that we picked up. There's a little video on night vision. We're going to
craft. Well, I first of all, anytime a veteran comes out, I always give them
their mind. Secondly, he is who he says he is. He is a former special operator. That is fact.
So whether you are a Navy SEAL or you're an Air Force PJ or you're an Army special operator,
And you go through a battery of psychological evaluations and sometimes polygraphs and drug testing.
history because it's really up to me. You asked me about him as a person. I believe he is speaking
before? There's reports of a vehicle shaped exactly. Lonnie Zamora. I mean, read the case. He was
a cop and he talked about an egg-shade craft just like that back in the 60s, right? Or so,
No, no, no, no, no, of course, I'm not, I'm not a mean you. I mean, I mean that rhetorically.
look when the whistleblowers come out, how they're treated. Look at poor Dave Grooge. Here's a guy
force. That's what we were doing. I was a job, right? He comes out 24 hours after testifying
a Congress. What happens? Two guys from the CIA apparently leak his, his, his information, medical
everything he said was absolutely everything he told Congress was correct. And a lot more he
a corrupt system. And by the way, that's my real issue. That's what motivates me every single day to
come out. It's not just the UAP topic. We've got a very significant issue on our hands right now.
And it's been there for a while. Let's speak. It's become a cancer in our government. And that
unless you ask me, I won't go down that road. But, but that to me is a much greater national security
that there's a very sophisticated capability to try to smear people like that. I've been fit.
video? There is a relationship to the story. If it turns out that that video is authentic and
warping of space time, then distance doesn't mean so much to you. Time is a little more flexible.
And so there's a reason why the US government doesn't even like to talk about it or any other
government. Yeah. We looked into it. It's just a science fiction term. Is it all we could find?
a constructive way, not a destructive way. I'm extremely loyal. People think I left the
What about the New Jersey drones? Yeah. You know, it would that came out what about a month ago,
asshole with a drone was thrown it up and taken videos of it. Sure. And I'm not worried about those
which if there's as a large enough commercial drone they're supposed to, then secondly,
to intercept these other drones. Now, let's talk about drones for a second in New Jersey.
be recovered. Now, imagine what it takes to fly a drone that's the size of an SUV. Let's look at
technologically just for a second. Most drones are line of sight, RF, radio frequency line of sight,
beyond the horizon, beyond line of sight, right? You now need infrastructure to do that. You need a
repeating capability, meaning an airborne capability or a land-based capability that will take that
signals are going to reach. So you need an artificial way, whether it's a balloon or a satellite or
a tower to relay that signal. Otherwise, that thing doesn't fly. So you've got to transmit that.
That takes infrastructure. Then if you're going to have a drone that flies more than 15 minutes,
engine, like jet-a-fuel, maybe you use or gasoline for a propeller, internal combustion engine,
loiter capabilities. The reason why are drones now like a reaper or something like that are
fixed-wing. Because they're going to stay flying for a long time. And so a helicopter, a rotary blade
drone can't do that. You don't have that loiter capability. So you have a fixed-wing capability.
if you want to fly a drone, even one of those, you have to have someone to launch it,
or re-energize it. So now you're talking a group of individuals. It has to be on flying just a
senior detected. Where are you going to recover it from? Without not a single one being recovered.
Completely in the dark. Now you're talking about, maybe I can launch it from a boat. How far
having a quote unquote mothership, that's a big profile in the water. Okay, well, maybe they'll
There's a submarine surfacing to launch them or these things being launched sub-surface,
electronic jamming capabilities. Are you willing to take that risk and all of a sudden now you've
lost a drone and it's paraded like the Russians did with the YouTube back in the 1960s when we're
flying the YouTube over Mother Russia? No, that's a PR disaster. So there's a lot of things that are
the American people, yeah, y'all are seeing stuff. Every single one of these are being flown in a
shut down a military air base because something's being flown over your base legally. Get the hell out
but we don't know who's they are. Wait a minute. Then how can you say they're being flown legally?
Afghanistan withdrawal. Don't get me started. I mean, you keep feeding a bunch of line of people,
a bunch of crap to people. You think that they're going to get used to eating crap? No,
was exact opposite of what was happening. Politics is a side. I don't think if your democratic
a combination of things you might have. So in the old days, if you had like, for example,
if you breached the perimeter of a military base, you would have some jeeps come out and maybe
a helicopter to try to find what's going on. But we're more sophisticated than that. We now have
have drone capability ourselves. And so if we detect something on the perimeter, breaking a perimeter,
have drones take off without even a human being involved to figure out what's going on. And by the
way, it's a lot cheaper. You can cover a lot more area using a drone than you can with one or
two helicopters. So imagine a scenario where maybe some people reporting some sort of really
anomalous issue, a UAP perhaps. And then the the response by us is to launch drones to try to
a drone. Start lost size of an SUV that disappears, comes in and out of the water potentially, stocks,
postcard boats in the middle of the ocean, right, up to 20 at a time. And then our response is to
making sound. It was blinking lights like a plane. It was definitely a drone. They both could be right.
like anything I've ever seen before. And then someone says, oh, no, a little tiny thing with
with the new administration to get a handle on this because this will be a PR disaster. It will be
if it already has been, if we don't get a handle on it. So there's been several recommendations that
have been floated up to the new administration to help President Trump get a handle on this and
possibilities that we haven't considered? Four and adversarial capability. It's not a blue force
technology. It's a red force technology that's being used to to assess our reaction to certain things.
I mean, no, I don't think that was that was brought up a lot of there was a lot of chatter that
it might be Iranian drones. A lot of I mean, there have been reports that that's why the inauguration
other alternative which you discuss. Maybe it's a blue force response to a threat and we don't want
to panic the public. You know, we've got a broken arrow situation on our hands. We've got to
under our noses. That's a scary thought. Or could be someone trying to figure out, look,
let's see the response. If we wanted if I was a bad guy and I wanted to use a drone to spray some
something nothing bad. Just something a tracer that we can pick up with other drones and
in Pentagon, I was part of a working group, the US Air Domain Working Group and it was
there's a drone in the sky, the buck stops with you and yes, you can shoot it down. If it's not ours
and we're not squawking, then shame on you, zap it. If it turns out to be a government contractor,
that was your fault, not mine. So yes, we do have a capability. Very easy to do that. We don't.
been known about these flights for a long time. Yeah. And it never got reported up. So that's a
Russia has had a long history and it's in fact right after the Berlin wall fell down
There was this brief period for a few years where, where we were working with KGB, KGB was
working with us and they were giving us all their files and we gained a lot of insight into their
there was very precise. They were sharing a lot of intel with us. It was a lot of it. And even at
a tip, we had a lot of that, that intel available to us. So we know for a fact, Russia and China,
we also know for a fact that there were several key allies, five eyed partners, I won't say which
information sharing agreement with them. In fact, Japan two and a half, two years ago, two and a
few years ago, came to the United States, two and a half years ago, came to, actually about three
years ago now, came to the Pentagon and asked to enter into a bilateral intelligence information
similarities? Oh, yeah, all similarities. That's what A-tip did. That's what the five observables were.
No, well, be a little bit different. When you say they don't have different, are you talking about
we saw four years ago with a Navy Super Hornet pilot. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. Wow.
How much do you think they know that we don't know? That's my fear. That's why this is a problem.
and using it against us. And here we are. We're not even willing to have a conversation with our own people.
Well, the good news is I think we actually know a lot more than we've admitted,
it's at least I think encouraging that we, we've been looking at UFOs for a long time,
just read you a document there from 1950. There's stuff from the National Security Council,
I just sent you a small little tiny little snapshot of some of the reporting. There's a bunch of it.
been a recent part of the narrative. So you don't look over there. We've known about it for a long
to the White House on this topic. We got it. So I would tell people, I think, look, here's a good
you're trying to say these things are a threat. No, I'm not. The threat is our lack of knowledge.
with the American people. You can't fix a problem, right? You can't, you can't recover from a problem
if you don't identify it in the first place. I think, I think we're at the point now. There was a
fear for a very long time why our government didn't share this information with the American public.
all approach to a, to a chess match between then Soviet Union and the United States. And we had a
places. And you had a nuke, real nuke issue, Russians had nuke, we had nuke, so we're building more
is interesting, but doesn't show any obvious signs of being a threat yet. So why don't we focus on
I mean, there's also the, the, the notion of you don't admit there's a problem until you have a
And let me give you a real case and point to this. In the 1960s, it's actually starting the 50s.
It wasn't until the Russians were able to develop and deploy the S-A-2 surface-to-air missile
that there was a problem. Because that's what governments do. And so, is it possible that some people
at a hysteria, at a mass scale, mass scale. I can understand that, I can understand that
library, grab a encyclopedia that's probably 20 years old and read a paragraph on something,
Well, okay, I mean, that's different than when I grew up in a building that you're crazy. In fact,
theologically, then we were in my generation. I think, think with, with where we are as a society,
you know, a little exercise to say, if I think, if I tell you the word parachute,
parabying a prefix, Latin prefix, meaning above or besides, so if I say parachute, what do you think
of? Well, I think of about a device that deploys over my head and tell us when we get to ground with
with a thump and not a thud, hopefully, right? And if I say parachute, what do you, I mean,
there to save a life, you know, so paramedic parachute. But then when I say paranormal, what happens?
They understand that a lot of things that we grew up thinking strange and weird aren't.
You know, I was at a time you probably remember, remember this probably, you growing, well,
that you could lose your entire career and be discharged. Well, that's silly. Who gives a crap
your sexual orientation. Who gives a shit? Right? But that was real back then. And it affected a
change that fact that something exists. I can't change the fact that there's a lion or a tiger or
be developed and come out in a legal way. I'm not a leaker. I've never disclosed classified
We've come a long way in the last seven years. And I've said before to people, there's a
but you'll never get any more because I'll go to jail. That's it. And so I think there's a balance.
transparency and disclosure. In a manner that is constructive, not destructive. In a manner that
Yeah, it's a lot harder. I know. Ask me how I know. But we're succeeding. We're doing it. We're
able to do it. We just got to have a little bit of patience and a little bit of courage.
people listening to you in your voice on a weekly basis than the major networks of our country
conversation. There was a time that people in the media would never talk about this because it was
but I will submit to you that there are there are moments in our evolution as a species
be a lot bigger. Another paradigm moment maybe when when two people were striking a rock together,
and all of a sudden a spark fluid, they created fire. And for the first time mankind could illuminate
Another paradigm moment may have been when mankind was standing on a stony beach. And one fisherman
And a fascinating interview. And I just it was a real pleasure to have you here and hope to see again.
Scott, it's my honor and privilege. You always have a home out in Wyoming. I mean, it's
I know you heard all the time, but truly, truly from somebody who's spent a little bit of time
in the media, you are providing a great service to our nation. And even if it has nothing to do
You are, you are setting a new tone for how America gets its information without a filter,
spins on things and this is what you are doing is a tremendous service for for for our nation and
humanity. So thank you sincerely. My wife is a big fan of yours. Really appreciate what you're
if you're feeling extra generous, please leave us a review on Apple and Spotify podcasts.