corbell jeremy how's it going pretty good man how you doing good you've been on the road a little
bit huh yeah i tried to get off the road but um we got some big things coming up this uh this year
we do including this particular episode so you know as as we know all too well the the ufo public
the government know about ufos we won't settle for anything less where's the bodies where's the
craft and there are some members of congress that say they want the same thing and you know expectations
are that sort of disclosure is nigh uh president trump has said he's going to release the files
my personal expectations are pretty low as usual you're the optimist of the group you know the
biggest stash of unreleased files as far as we know is somewhere in the bowels of the dia the defense
intelligence agency information compiled from a program known as osap uh under dia the man who
created and designed and directed that program the largest known ufo investigation ever funded by the
the dirs had been made public by me and some other people not one page of the tens of thousands of pages
created by the osap investigation not one page has been made public if you ask dia they say they can't find
them you can file all the foil requests you want they've utterly failed so the only things we know
of books and lakatsky sifted through the official files he wrote about them along with dr kelleher and me
with some minor uh contributions and um you know the fourth and final book about all sap is now out
government agencies through the dopser process but he's revealed as much as he's been allowed to reveal
the work product of this largest ufo program in history and it'll never be enough i think for
the public for some of the ufo public but as we know from interacting with him on this program
um it's likely it could be the closest we ever get to actual disclosure what the government knows at
least in the osap program and then you know jeremy as as you know he doesn't grant many interview
requests this will be our third bite of the apple uh but i think uh no one other than perhaps connor
teller knows as much about that program that jim lakatsky and he's sharing with the public the most
information that can be released uh he fought a lot of battles to get the permission to do it
including this latest one it's like a glimpse behind the curtain you and he have had some
get into the spirited debates and i know he can't go further than certain things and i'm not pressing
that boundary is because it ends up being that the boundary is usually in a really interesting place
to say because that's the question that we need to answer well we know one place where there's a
boundary because we've explored it before so maybe third time's the charm so let's jump into it dr jim
the conversations that we've had on this program and the conversations that you and i have had over the
haven't got into you and i asked this question in the context of claims that have been made about
our books your books and about the ufo topic in general that everyone involved in this at an official
religion in order to influence congress and the pentagon and national policy so i want to ask
jumped into this subject well uh as to the degrees they're all in nuclear engineering
in the first book skinwalkers at the pentagon and there was so much new stuff in there people probably
having all that knowledge they were working under contract for i believe it was the national academy
visit skinwalker ranch i wanted to hear the real details what is really going on and that's what dia was
interested in now the study group it didn't have time to do that so basically they just fell off the
plate i had a couple queries uh after they provided me with the correct addresses and phone numbers as to
are you doing anything and of course by that time the answer became no and so everything was under
seen that up to this day and the four books they're a controlled disclosure of the information that we
wanted to put for with pentagon approval the the way it's been described to me by your colleague and
friend jay stratton is you two guys were both at dia at the same time with different sort of specialties
and then and eventually you guys compared notes and and we know what the the rest of the history is is
what we call the air team he worked on air threats and he was i don't know if he was on assignment to dia
from o and i or if he was a dia uh uh employee at the time but we also had other members within those
teams he was head of that group i was head of the missile threat enemy missile threat to the united states
of wow you know skinwalker ranch that is the wildest place i've ever heard of and little did they know
that the management didn't know what was going on it wasn't going sideways that's your greatest danger
the internet and and and i have learned over the years there's no use in fighting back against them
because they spread faster than you could ever keep up but the false information i mean one of the
best was the battle between bigelow's guards with automatic weapons and and aliens with lasers that
in there too of course over the years you had no religious type beliefs about ufos aliens
see the relationship at first and then i saw the relationship that ufos were under the paranormal
about people who don't believe in the connection because if if anything that's what we proved
couldn't repeat things but new cases as you know kept popping up all the time jeremy take it away
academically fusion research you know power and then utility in the utility sector kind of nuclear
engineering is that correct yes i was uh uh in the utility basically i was employed for doing startup
uh so but that only lasted six seven months because all that time i've talked let's look back in the old
clearance i believe it was called an l clearance in dole and then uh once i was employed there i went after the
attack submarines and then the opportunity my wife's a nuclear engineer too and the area we were living in
my calling at the at a contractor that supported countermeasures and threat to the missile defense
find out where you were working and what you were doing it looked like from the university of tennessee
torsatron to reactor torsatron reactor and um when you were there also so you focused on the plasma
on because i had the clearance at the time and i was doing classified work both with doe and dod and
multiple levels even to the highest but that's not buildable it was okay it's visible with the technology
of the time in the uh 80s and 90s right so it might be now but but you're i just want to make sure so
were embedded in oak ridge's fusion program ecosystem kind of back in the in the early 80s yes
the torsatron concept ever come about it totally successfully well mine were theoretical calculations
and the theory ultimately did not hold up it was for startup of a fusion reactor at extremely low power
levels and not in other words you wouldn't have to put much money uh energy in in order to go to the
know quite comfortable handling all of the 38 special studies that we we did because i understood them all
right and i i had to understand him i was the editor because we got 38 different styles coming in
the corrections your latest book the last uh book that you intend to write about osap you've told me
that taken together they in essence uh are the equivalent of disclosure am i overstating it no i believe
no i mentioned last time on your program the foundation of kona blue actually now your readers can
do this i think both of you are doing it but if you go through all four of the books you can see the
structure that we first put in skinwalkers in the pentagon as a future program you can see that matches up
almost exactly with the program that uh dhs and dod release on what kona blue was to be
had access to the highest levels of threat intelligence but you had to release it at the secret level so
story out of thin air at the secret level it had to be supported by the higher level intelligence it was
the truth and we did the same thing throughout aussap uh when it was untrue that it was an unclassified
program it was com it was highly classified but everything you got out here and checked by the
pentagon is unclassified but the story's in there i can't emphasize that anymore you're going through it
bit by bit uh one thing that does upset me is when i see things on the internet of people diligently
going through the books diligently and they're going in the wrong direction and i can't say anything
it's it's just the way it is they're filling in the the blanks with things that aren't true so george i
you know the deepest move of this book as i'm reading through it it's not like one sensational claim
uh dr lakatsky you're like building an institutional argument kind of that the u.s government ran a serious
medically aware broad spectrum technically framed program that found the phenomenon to be stranger
more interactive and more consequential than like the simple aircraft identification problem we used to
call ufos is that fair to say that you know you followed the data into the taboo that's correct uh
right from the beginning and we've if people thought that the uh request for proposal was
uh and but we were very specific of going with the small contractors because we knew that with a small
for this contract they could form it from the ground up we weren't inheriting a structure from a big
aerospace space company we were sure they had the personnel but the thing is is were they going to go
down the direction that dia wanted and the answer is of course no so everything is above board we did
the proper contracting uh we we just did everything and we're all insistent on that and so senator reed
and in a way etc uh and they monitored the contract closely to see that dia did not veer off we weren't we
it low-key we were doing it in the correct place and we knew a lot was being produced it just we didn't
plan to release it but i do remember the meeting in 2016 it was after i retired 2017 with senator reed
out in las vegas where i came i just made the statement and you were there george i made the
statement i'm gonna have to write a book now did i realize it was i look at the stack over here and
i'd like to see if the public comes to the same structure for kona blue as as we did based upon an
examination over a year of the data in these four books and who feel that certain portions of the work
by the government and and funding either uh from the government or external at this point it's it's it's
it's i always think back it's like a a phd thesis a a dissertation could be like the wild west you just
done now with kona blue we need to move ahead we're not collecting information on lights in the sky
and i'm surprised we were able to release uh legally what we we put in pentagon so that the dia is aware
the pentagon the the dia itself is very aware now because of your work that there are close contact
is pursuing they're in the four books well how do you read it just like you're doing you read and
lot do a lot think they can discuss these books on the on the internet and they're getting the gist of it all
no way are you the four books again i mean it seems like it's the equivalent disclosure given that
these cases that are in there and the specifics and the incidents that happened were investigated by
did happen uh what you don't do in the books is sort of draw conclusions um hey these are aliens these
of what you need to know and the government doesn't know much more there are people that think they
that way as in you didn't like the term textbook it's been used on reviews of these books but
a guide books let's use that term guide books uh do you remember the old days when you could open
buy at the at the store maps you had to draw you know a paper map and heaven help if you took your
eyes off the steering wheels but because you had to read the map but there is not the iphones weren't
providing you anything uh the early days of the iphones providing you things i even knew people that
do we have all the answers no but the younger folks will develop those answers and they'll
does anyone know does anyone you know know the answers to the big questions who are they is it
you know the answers to those and does anyone else in the government intelligence community know i don't
and i don't know anyone that does and i would seriously question their claim that they do the
fact you're not wasting your time doing research as you're doing it the both of you and anyone in the
by the way no one has ever raised the question in these books where whatever happened you know this
george whatever happened to the plans of the university program those went there was a firm
happened with kona blue at dhs at least part of it uh they just died on the vine something got in the way
and uh i don't know i guess it's if people were scared in the universities to form what would have
of of committing to it and i think enrollment would have been through the roof if it was just one or two
courses okay everything that's in these books was thoroughly investigated all the cases all the incidents
all the locations uh and you know you you've got some general themes throughout these are craft many
it's happening all over the world and everything that you've written in these four books is approved
so the reaction of course from the naysayers is this is drip drip drip um you know it's it's government
propaganda it's preparing us for a false flag um are you happy now that the four books are done with
osap and kona blue i i i i expect to be able to do that uh can we have all the details probably not and
is is is it important to have all the details are we are we skewing people's minds in the in a small but
still significant wrong directions but uh i don't think anything has been skewed in the wrong direction with what's in here
we've just opened up the door by saying hey this is real you need to do your research your due diligence
if you expect the the government to carry the ball on this i wouldn't uh but uh that uh it's wide open now
as i was saying before the university business
section of people of the general public all the way to the phd level the thing is is is there's
this and this is something a lot of people say to me is dr lakatsi is the only one that's out there
saying hey the intelligence community needs to pass this information forward to the next generation
informed on the uap issue do you do you feel that way because you push for that a lot that we should have
it is and the u and i feel that way and i think it's happening on on many other topics many others
and there simply isn't the personnel perhaps perhaps with how i have seen ai develop uh the advanced
systems that it can be better handled but jeremy you're correct the history is being lost as we
speak it's being lost it's being tossed out it can't nothing's being loaded to the degree it has
of fraser verse ali got a direct question um you know rep burleson is kind of like the people's champ
non-human intelligence craft like the one that you admitted to that we breached the whole of so my
question is you know have you ever been to the pax river facility and is there a craft there how was
there ever a craft there well i i can answer part of the question i can say yes i've been there yes
i've seen the facility but it was it was uh just built so uh i can't say what was going to go in there
i don't know because they wouldn't have a need for that i would think didn't it was going on the
did they build the facility at pax to hold um a uap or a non-human oh i don't i don't know what the
um a lot of the things that uh are really interesting in this new book future visions
with the world to a degree you really break down specific effects that were measurable physical effects
of strange signals um you give data data concerning the number of sightings of
shouldn't exist and and others and you it's not just based on the ranch itself you guys for osap you
had this increasingly large concentric circles around the ranch you went out there talked people into
many of the cases or many of the sightings were seen by multiple people some may have been in the
at the same time how to explain that how to explain the fact that uh
that's one of the reasons we didn't try to explain it was tough enough just gathering this information
because by the way you just didn't walk up to the neighbor of the of skinwalker ranch and and ask
them strange questions they would have thrown you off the uh uh off their property that's the the the
the one really interesting man in black case uh where he came was it a black escalade or a black
shoes uh it's it's it's almost humorous some of the stuff we collected and it's all been verified it's
just odd it's sort of the brilliance of osap that you were willing to follow the evidence wherever it
led and were willing to share the information no how no matter how crazy it sounds because let's say
that was a government program you think those reports would have bubbled to the surface or they
would um no they would never in fact they they they they bubbled off the ranch a bit but i wouldn't say
extensively they are always uh people saying we've heard rumors about what goes on in the ranch
the government is moved in there uh these strange things occur but the first the first statements
because they're thinking there well these these these these are contractors for the government we don't
government in in this way that it's so compartmentalized this uap thing that you found that the license
our our our government people to that didn't work for the ossep directly but who were involved with it
to gather that information but i think that's one of the uh i think perhaps jeremy you're not looking at
that in the right way have i mentioned in the books we were suspicious that there was
a leak at mufon that someone from the government in some organization not us we were we were having
them gather information directly for us and we got it directly the good cases directly from mufon
but we couldn't respond instantly nor did we have people on site across the country they had to fly
looking at a completely re uh a legitimate reason and it's not working against the government they're
seeing was not a government classified was there another government classified program out at the ranch ever
and that we kept our our stuff uh on the straight and narrow we didn't want to go off on the primrose
thank heavens the drones were just under development 10 15 years ago uh when they send them in
people would come to the front gate that the guard force had their handle had their hands on their
hands full right at the front gate now i will say at the front gate was where money was materializing out of
explain that again it wasn't outside the gate money materializing the circle is that why brandon bought the ranch
approached um by a naval intelligence individual and we're given i i mean i got an earful with the
did but honestly i haven't heard of it back to the money sorry um at the ranch so one of the things that's
emanating from the mesa at the ranch which is very consistent with what the tv show is pursuing these
days and at the same time in the same section of the book you say that there were counter measures
can you share with us uh the the nature of the signals that you detected and whether the counter
measures that were taken how they worked and were they related to that signal coming from the mesa
well we didn't have to take counter measures against the signal it was intermittent but uh
early and that had to do with the uh the placement of transmitting phones by the way government gsa approved
transmission radius of about uh one to one point five kilometers uh they were not installed at the ranch
tracking devices uh they were looked at on vehicles that were back in vegas and there were scrapes on the
underneath of the vehicles where was the standard place to put these tracking devices so they'd been removed by
uh they were not installed by people but the the phones themselves had been found uh one of those phones
on the osap project uh that was early on well we're thinking if they're doing this back in vegas they might
be doing this up at the ranch you'd be spied on yes and so we brought in professional organizations that
were recognized by dia to check and see and there were there wasn't anything of i think the bottom line
asked to do this to transmit all the database that we were gathering from around the world to transmit
rush on that we had the special processing done on the tsscis but that was management and team lead level
ufos for the government government official program and somebody some entity was employing people to put
trackers on cars and bug the phones in a secure facility back at big little aerospace right and we had uh
uh we had counterintelligence you know who's in charge of it in this country is the fbi we had
them come in and do briefings and what's the current status at both locations and so you know we did our
due diligence so we were fairly confident that we weren't being spied on i can't speak to the ranch right
now i i know brandon fugal is doing a great job up there of furthering the research um and with
we've had the nor the usual parties we think russia china israel
uh well you it's some or all of the above i mean or none of the above but it it that's the only
conclusion you could come to because you know we never traced it back to the source the main thing
and as you noted in in the books being complete what were they really learning other than the fact
secret documents at the ranch that was all back in vegas uh so uh you there were some amazing uh
experiments that were undertaken and questions that remain that at the ranch and we've talked about some
of them before but i i started this part of the conversation by asking about the electromagnetic signals
that seemed to be coming from the mesa um did you ever figure out what those were and why was it
worth pursuing was it because they're transitory they're there one day and gone the next well that
was the that's the key answer transitory uh we certainly had that during uh our uh
uh our time there i mean there was a case which i think i can describe in the
you know that was by a reliable person now you already know about the levitating objects uh you know
there at the ranch i'm talking about an actual person uh uh in the air so um
we um we didn't try to explain as you've commented before and certain events that were clearly off the
the the uh the property itself because the mesa wasn't on the property and i remember bob bigelow taking
me up there to check the mesa and he went up the most to me and neither him to go up this route i had no
idea why we were going up straight up well he wanted to know to get me the full impact uh and that was
after i saw what i saw inside the ranch house which is kind of a repetitive as i now understand it a
repetitive in the area i was saying i wasn't the only one to see something in that location you did
whoever they are well uh bob bigelow uh directed column and column handled the you know the legitimacy of
the experiments of uh moving objects uh moving uh the patterns on a board uh things like that which were
uh the uh uh the uh uh odd time discrepancies in plants that would grow too fast not grow at all uh
versus being in las vegas the exact same plants and there were you know i guess i haven't really
mentioned it in the book what we would have to assume to be time anomalies there too you know with
certainly the plant growth i mean if a plant is is growing at double the rate it should be that's
we were very heavy on the experimentation but that's very typical for how the intelligence community thinks
uh gathering information that's that's how the the acquisition community works too gathering information
and data is very important especially on experiments the problem is having the time and the money to
analyze it and we were we were doing the best we could we interrupt this program to bring you a special report
a tip is exactly as i described it here now the day they started using a tip in 2015-16 to describe their their uh
what do you describe it as but no a tip was the name was created uh for use in senator reed's letter
for our first attempt for material transfer it came and went the next time i really saw a tip was uh uh
uh uh uh in in the the new york times article right exactly so so we've just we've kind of got it wrong
and we we've kind of beaten the dead horse about this but um you know you talk about that name coming
up in the reed letter for a material transfer you you are talking about a ufo the transfer of a ufo or
hardware yes or no i mean well jeremy what would you think the answer would be well i know what the
answer is i'm just curious if you can say it i don't think that i that i should i think that the
letter needs to stand on its own merits it's been brought up even recently the letter what does it
really mean well dhs and answer the question right there yeah you get accused of talking in circles
and the and i was happy that i said thank heavens they don't know what they're talking about on this
show they're describing all the details so i am very i try to be very cautious i can't say anything
more about reed's letter but what what do the both of you think i think they were moving a ufo from
lockheed martin um you know to trying to move ufo from lockheed martin to to the offset program am i an
idiot dr lakatsky well he no but the thing is there's there's let's go back baby steps here what
would be the first thing you would do then then a transfer
it could be an inspection it could be we were looking for a list that's the that's the first
request for us uh now we were able to look for the list let's let's jump off that for a moment
recovered materials recovered materials huh it was a list but it had and we were given the exact
the book go baby steps if people want to get a hundred percent answer no one has that to give you
well is the word deception from let us say uh suspected aliens let's let's use that don't don't dismiss
the word deception on broad terms their part oh the the messengers of deception meaning the visitors
your own conclusions the dad is there there's a lot of stuff in these books and i'm not pitching pitching
selling these things because remember they're they're hard copies are no they're the i guess we sell
a fair amount of those but the electronic copies are fine forgetting the gist the virgo copies
well i i'm a person where words go in one ear and out the other well hold on george george is
dr lukatsky saying that we can't dismiss deception from the visitors themselves that's right that's what
sort of the origins of osap and you know you've covered different threads through the four books but
you know the first very first incident case investigated by osap was tic tac maybe the most
consequential ufo series of events ever given the effects of when it came out and uh and your
colleague jay stratton did the first uh form of the investigation put together a report we're now 22
years later and uh you know the implication keeps leaking out from we think we know who um oh yeah
that's one of ours we were just testing it and seeing how the navy would react which seems preposterous but
that the capabilities of that weapon system would be revolutionary change the world maybe you could
conquer the world with just one of them if we had it but take us back to tic tac what you've learned
then what you've learned since was that ours or was it somebody else's and i ask in the context of arrow
which the last time we talked out of conversation here you basically agreed with us that it looks like a
counterintelligence operation which of course arrow is like the roach motel the old ads for the roach
yet to formally dismiss um explain uh discourage uh interest in the tic tac is tic tac still legit is it
ours do we have anything like it and if we did why the hell don't we use it what do you think well i think
you're you're you're right asking the right questions i'm not the right one to answer on some of them
postulated at the time and that we're certainly seeing now uh you know now we're talking about
drones that fly from one country to another but uh the the answer to your question is
uh there were some things that still haven't been released that were classified on um on uh the tic tac
incident so i think if i was just jim of the street the jim public
i i i wouldn't believe it if anyone told me that that was a classified program of the u.s that i i just
i just can't believe that but but the thing is is there's classified programs that are your developments
and you know crumbs that you've picked up in the forest you know that would be quite the crumb
uh if you know what i mean yeah if there are crumbs left in the forest for you to follow
device as you saw in in uh in some of the specialized studies here which weren't much of a study
you have a couple of sections in this new book about the russian files the thread three files
and where it led can you give us a summary of what you learned from those uh what was learned and the
significant conclusions that you could draw from the documents that came back from from the ussr former
i would say that we this is contrary to what's out there on the internet that we patterned our program
after these well we received them too late in the program to uh to actually pattern anything after the
the uh thread three uh documents we were in the process of uh studying them and uh
uh that's when uh we were running into rough waters with the program continuing beyond and actually
the program um so contrary to what people say we were duplicating the russian program no we had no
knowledge of it at the time uh so i mean other than the word thread three we certainly didn't have
read over the thread three documents of course that's 30 years difference though both companies were
offensively were pursuing the same thing they just had it started 30 30 years earlier yes that's true um
but they didn't do it in the same way for example they were i don't know if they had a
were dealing with them and they were supplying us the key cases um we were able to really utilize that
properly i didn't see the where the russians were making any attempt to do that so and and to lock into
made a similar decision and besides remember when we use the term acquire materials those materials
obviously have been looked at before so it's just another set of eyeballs on on the same thing
colleague colin keller has stated publicly that he suspected that whatever the intelligence was
operating at skinwalker ranch and then in the uinti basin might be in a machine intelligence and it
a machine a version of a machine well we're using our current terminology i mean the answer is yes but
not in the way you think a machine machine we're not let's not go back to the old star treks and the
beyond that even in the conceptual role so the thing is is what's a machine what's a human what's
what's an alien in the future a combination of all probably well let's say a machine intelligence ai
when the critch comes to shove but the fact is is that uh as as you well know among any of us here or
among your listeners there are other locations that are just as substantial as the ranch if not more so
and it is unusual too what you designed for the cover it didn't turn out that way correct
i let loose on this one i i asked ai to come up with this one based upon reading the books what
the fact is i'm i'm i'm constantly asked on on these three books or two of them the last two um
i had to put the star field back in the high resolution this is a technical issue with however
amazon produces these the entire star field disappears i have no idea why but the the basic what you see
here on the covers you know on the previous one on new insights the the square was suggested and drawn
more more thoughts into it i mean it put into the the sheeting if you look real close there's there's panels on the uh on the uh the square
it put it in so i utilize ai in in regard to the cover but i will tell you that not one word other than
suggestions on the index which is as always confused me is how am i supposed to form an index on these
documents when you don't know what's in the document so i'm having to come up with innovative i've asked ai
its suggestions but i i still have to do it but not a word not a word in the rest of the documents is ai
you know uh mr bigelow our mutual friend yes gave me the green light to go ahead and say to congress
that there was a negotiation going on between lockheed martin and bass to acquire materials to the transfer of materials
and he you know that's the first time he's ever said yeah you can go ahead and say it publicly under oath
and then you know that's the first time you're going to be able to do it um the implication is that there are
it was authorized by all the adopter process somebody wanted that to be said i mean to go that far it's
give it in the context of right now president trump has said i'm going to release the files which whether
interest among the public certainly to see whatever there is you and i and jeremy know they're only going
the files uh i can see it happening but you you qualified your questioning uh there with under this
administration and possibly under a near term administration the answer to that is i don't
believe so but it will it'll go further you know in the future excuse me it'll go further
a lot of the things we as you can tell i'm deflecting your questions oh and they never happened before
here right no it's the first time but uh the thing is is is i really can't go further you know i i think
that uh you mentioned was it the last time i interviewed with you uh that uh uh congressman burleson
because i'm not answering right now you're you're pushing the envelope you've gone beyond the envelope
wouldn't be allowed to answer them on some of the um more sensitive compartmentalized issues of uap okay
if other individuals or an individual asked me higher level wow equivalent level in the constitution so you're
people have lied during the hearings i've i know that people have lied and they've raised now hold
the difference between a lie and exaggeration and pure fantasy okay but just as you you've said it hold
senior chief wiggins not jeff mucitelli oh here you're going to go through all the people no i'm not
particularly has lied in congress and you know it but you won't elaborate that we take the the the
who have testified and and those are the people you brought in you're saying i brought in almost
and i won't answer anymore the fact is i made a statement that there was falsehoods made uh uh
uh the source of those falsehoods hoods could be total delusion i think otherwise other people think
referencing and i just think it's important to just separate the people so that you don't paint the
false target on your back that's necessary i think this is part of the research
bit of information from some of the people i don't i don't even know i know there's a disconnect here
saying somebody lied and i want to make sure to take the false target off of certain people's backs so
the public doesn't start creating and filling in nonsense again but we'll move on i just wanted to make
it's just like enough there's another reason i won't testify at congress that the boat is sailed on
can't be undone poor kids on the internet kill themselves because of the same reason false stories
about them back to the idea of disclosure you know the public has its ideas of what disclosure should
be the president has issued a directive it's not an executive authority has no authority behind it to
that sort the osap materials so taken together these four books are the closest we are to actual
disclosure given that everything you've written has been authorized by the various people and agencies
in the process as of this time it's it's effectively as you said jordan's disclosure is there concern if
you think forward in what disclosure in the forms it could take whatever trump and and uh the his agencies
might reveal in the future and we have no idea what that might be do you can are you concerned about
disruption of human civilization of of religions freaking out of people rioting in the streets
the stock market crumbling from anything that you suspect could be released but hasn't yet to be
something further was released and i'm afraid of people going off society going off in the wrong
to happen tomorrow or or in the immediate future why would we get a incomplete story if disclosure was
incomplete story an incomplete story i mean if if if you're satisfied with the fact that they would
it it is my problem if i've contributed to it going on and on in the wrong direction and i don't want that
well i don't think you can stop it at this point if the words you just said were said by our president
and then there was some form of proof that was shown maybe in missouri like the show me state
be a disclosure you know disclosure day the movie's coming up that would be a disclosure that i think
people would embrace and i don't think it is anybody's job to hold back the nature of reality
from humankind so i think that if we got that or is that going to reveal the nature of reality
you you know you tell me but what it's going to do is stop hiding the nature of reality and so if we got
that part down because it's nobody can be the overlord of truth so if we get that part down sure we
be useless meaning because nobody really knows the ultimate answer the correct not even our government
that it is nobody's right tell you jeremy it comes across as that and it comes across to the public as that
a wrong path congress is being led down a wrong path the president is being led down the wrong path
there's a problem here and i'm i'm disturbed by it because i'm not going to live forever and i want the
sorry for me by you know uh the way i had to be badgered and i had people reinforcements jump up
and jumped into the pitch battle and i'm talking about at the high i'm talking beyond and outside dia
the fact is is there is two forces out there that want people to know and and there are those that
not however the turmoil it creates has been terrible but i'm not blending that part of it i'm
talking about the more fundamental in in human nature so you've had me say a lot more i look like
i have a calm demeanor all the time where i actually don't you know the fact is when i'm seeing total
and i said the same at ossa and people said oh no jen that's not true it's just because it's ending
it was the way it was unceremoniously ended you know it was just a couple letters went out
and is we just want to get rid of this attitude in the letters uh so did one side win and another side
lose no because we completed the job in kona blue and what we did in dhs we competed completed
the job as much as we could people asked me did no people haven't asked me but they should
denied didn't exist don't you think i already knew that already this was the third attempt for that
transfer under the conditions laid for us the third attempt and this was did i not know it was going to
fail what i didn't know and the surprise what i didn't know was something i can't tell you right now
the secure line because i was what you want what
so the thing is i didn't say that to them because they would i had to say i'll try i'll try i'm trying
but i i am upset because i mean people are getting spun up the government people got spun up
let me tell you one big spin up and one real problem we had was the discovery of those phones
that that brought attention on this project like you wouldn't believe and it was from the religious
beaten back in three different organizations in fact one i believe one of the proponents was thrown out of
the room literally so it was it was i'm i'm giving you a story in one sense about the experience that i had at dia
you know they're in a uh they've got the management a year and i'm talking top level the directors a year
and you know don't engage with them don't say the slightest word wrong uh it was just unbelievable
never go forward again you may find out some pieces and that you would like to find out that the
do what it needed to do and we failed at times we failed at the university we failed in brazil let's
let's call it what it was you know we spent money uh we didn't fail on all the documents the 38 we
didn't fail at all there we didn't fail at all on the research that bass did we got everything we needed
the verifications we got the the lowdown this that true story but the thing is is
you know that and it's the important story jeremy that's important to you it's the important story
we got it leads into the important aspects of this and which i hope to see keep going it's it's going
in which is that it's beyond just craft the importance are this great oh it's far beyond just craft
and you know and some of the material we acquired show that it's far beyond it is about craft there's
but you know it's constantly had reading about me do i monitor the web i monitor it very closely because i
try to adjust the content of the books to that still be truthful and try to keep them entertaining
but you know it's hard to around fools and i know what they say about the both of you too let's not
well let's not be i know that but hey you know and i don't say i do i interview with it despite that the
this don't go to the to the grave thinking that i will learn everything by the time you know i i make my
flight to heaven well i i maybe you will but i just want to learn then i want to learn the next piece you
um all that you've done known and unknown for the the movement that people call disclosure but really just about
telling the truth um i got a bunch a bunch of messages uh yesterday and today people kind of you know i've talked to
there to you that to you but it doesn't come across on the internet that way yeah uh it doesn't come
across that way at all in fact i'm saying if if these are the fools we're dealing with and we might as
well you know just give up right now but i tell you there are the people out there who are going to
saying this right now as an old man because the crew is getting old jeremy they're going to start
in the documents that say we can't find out anything this person's dead the persons are all gone
northern tiers become meaningless in other words the the saucers uh coming into the purported saucers
intelligence that the security guards at dia had blocked them from leaving unless they'd talk to me
involving the same thing and coercion into the the missile silos but the fact is is we failed in getting
how does the internet also breeds false documents it has plenty of false information out there deliberate
the lines and see well you went to brazil and you went there really to get a blood sample of a particular
individual and that and you were promised that from the key individuals both here and in brazil that
that would be obtained and it wasn't obtained you know because i'm quite used to having the rug pulled
out from under me in this project and uh sinister forces no i don't think so it's just the way it's done
is the ultimate um you've been optimistic in in previous conversations you know about where this could lead
the same could be could go in the wrong direction you wrote these books and these books will resonate
through time and maybe right now humanity's not ready to to really take it on the nose with this stuff
or we're asking the wrong questions but what you've done will last the test of time jim you realize that
well you can't say this and this is you know z but you've just said a all the way up to um y but
interest and because that's we got to find out what's underneath the hood there man he is a mystical
appreciate him and people online man give him give the guy a break he's not he doesn't have a thick
and and it's up to us to take it from there yeah i think the interesting thing for him is
uh first a legal one you know he made oaths it's his honor on the line he made a promise he would
go this far and no further and there's a legal issue involved he he got authorization because that's the
that he uh he gets permission legal authority to reveal more and he won't go further the more
is that ultimately nobody knows the ultimate truth we don't know where these things are from
we don't know who built these craft we don't know the long-range implications of for is there a plan for
conversations with him and with others you know we've long suspected nobody really knows the
answers to this you and i've been pretty far up the food chain asking the same kind of questions
ets they're from the planet krypton and here's why they're here and this is what they want to do
they were true or they were a test of some kind we have yet to find a single person in the u.s
government that knows the ultimate answers we what he has shared with us is as far as he can go but he
doesn't have any knowledge of what the ultimate answers are any more than we do he certainly knows
know the ultimate answers to the big questions and people can stomp and yell stomp their feet and
demand the full truth but they're never going to be satisfied because nobody else really knows the
answers to those either i think the most interesting tidbits in that exchange that we haven't discussed
kona blue as if it is real you know the popular conception is it ended that dhs kicked it out
into some aspect of working on the phenomenon that it wasn't a dead program that it's not a dead
in the most just specific direct you know order and it's got to be frustrating that people are out
there in ufo land spreading lies making things up it's a fantasist world in ufo land a lot of the time
looking at the sunset of their life in a way i mean he's not getting any younger and he said that
to fill in the blanks in in some of the things that he shared with us and i think he's discouraged to
especially if you get from a guy like him who says look i don't know anybody that knows the full picture
come back and maybe he'll share that with us in the future anyway it was a great conversation yeah thanks so