very deep um both in terms of uh testimony i mean there were 80 000 people there you know under the
of mine how you doing great man good to see him this is a pretty big day for us here i mean in the
you know in the long and tortured history of the ufo subject investigations into that mystery as well as
the years uh he's like at the forefront of so many key moments in history not just ufo history but history
i mean in other industries and topics as well he he was a pioneer in the development of the internet
in the development of ai which is huge uh he was there at key moments in the overall investigation of
ufos both in france where he was trained as an astrophysicist here in the u.s and in cases all
over the place he was there with jay allen hynek on project blue book in the beginning he became a
venture capitalist in silicon valley kind of a key place to be he's done breakthrough research with nids
the organization that was created here in las vegas 30 years ago almost exactly to the day and with bass i
you know he's done boots on the ground research in brazil in argentina in france elsewhere in europe and
know how many there are here in ufos and related subjects certainly more than 10 000 or so
the that's the core that's the core information um in the entire library he's the deepest thinker
and probably the best writer on the subject in my estimation in the world so you know getting jacques
really was sure we would do it yeah you know as i said in 2019 on the rogan podcast it's jacques
valet i mean the guy's a legend you know he's been uh involved in this over decades and he has really
came up with the interdimensional idea and he and in a lot of ways he's revolutionized the way that
in the same way we do and and i think you'll see that in the interview but i was really excited because as a
have him on today is because a few of the revolutions that he's created in this field is really about um
phenomena reported centuries before aviation across rival nations and in eras with no technological
important especially in the era um that we're in because he sees the real mystery not just being
in since 2017 public hearings do you see value in those hearings because it seems like the members of
your own experience with congress 1968 you were involved in that first hearing um were you hopeful
uh congress uh uh uh in in in in the in the latest hearings well i um i did not participate i was not
asked to participate in the in the latest hearings i was asked to uh to meet with the um the the experts for
the intelligence committees you know as an extension of the work i have done with bass and uh in in in
you know in terms of uh background data that that the committee could use and should know about so i i
impressive place in washington um i obviously we we went over you know a lot of details and so on so my
uh versus the new testimony coming in and uh which is what we see you know what what you george uh you
know and both of you participated in so uh i'm i'm hopeful that that's um you know i had experience with
i've worked extensively in the early days of the internet and the alpanet and that raised a lot of
uh in those days uh had a uh hearing uh with that involved uh the post office among other things to
how fast the network was going to develop and especially develop in terms of message systems and and
uh the answer was look uh one in every worker in the u.s uh one in every 100 workers in the u.s works for the post office
participated in that uh watching the reaction of the congressman i i think they they they understand
of these people have a background in the role of business not not in mathematics or astronomy so uh that's
that's that's important to know you know and and to understand the the the problem they have in taking
about the post office yes of course you are going to lose all first class mail in a few just a few years
leadership in that market you you see you saw hearings happen in the 60s and george is telling me about
well in part uh i think this is backfield because there is a new generation of people discovering ufos on
documents from russia uh as you know i've been in in contact with in those days i i don't plan to go back
now but in those days i was in in contact with some of the same people in and the scientists and russia
is brought in at the same time uh we're still waiting as you said it's been five years we're still
veil of secrecy and find out where the goodies are stored if in fact we have non-human intelligence and
non-human intelligence and technology is congress the way to go it seems to me there is value in the
as as as you know i i was a member of the mids organization of the science board for mids in las vegas
to the project and a number of others with their own that were brought in and we we built a data warehouse
know all the things that are floating around and in you know in in those several languages and countries
the the the next phase in the plan was to reduce that to you know need 260 000 cases
by the way uh in uh in in a couple of books that have come out but you collaborated with uh george your
it may be marching marginally relevant but it's not what you're looking for you know in science and so
reduction and then two years of ai in other words i was told that you have five years so i said two
years to for data gathering around the world and translation so that everything is in english
pictures and so on but the real data in the field and uh we don't know where that is you know the
including the data as no as classified and i respect that but there is a deeper problem here that in um
in in the military area uh you you need if you're developing if we're developing a new rocket it it needs
your friends who are experts in propulsion and one who is expert in optics and one who is expert in
true with ufos i mean the information is in the mind of the farmer i'm going to meet somewhere you know in
kansas and as you know i've spent a lot of my time going to uh to to meet people at their farm or in their
which is a valuable you know idea to to look at but that's not all i mean in many of the cases i have
and then it lands uh it may be 40 feet in in diameter and it makes an impact on the ground
i mean the case in valenso is a perfect case it you know and so you can you can analyze with soil
and uh in the the case in valenso there is a very good movie now about valenso
very well you know i'm in silicon valley so people have been in silicon valley for 40 years uh i funded
because again the the motivation is in order to to get um you know funding for anything the the best
way to do it is to say this is a potential threat now in the rest of the world people are not treating
um there is no none of that filter that that we we have here the same thing in france um you know the
claude porer in the late in the early 70s you know has been consistently just uh taking reports from the
or as a as a military subject the military is obviously interested uh interested in the potential
like an extension of science fiction you know wouldn't it be nice to know what else is in the universe
in california is is a sophisticated community and it has its own way of keeping secrets and exchanging
secrets because the secret that you keep is is pretty useless in business you know you're
told me you know don't think that we have these great secrets first in washington uh we we find a
number of areas in science like that that you can look at it's very interesting well for 10 years it was
classified it was then you know in some lab somewhere maybe at los salamons maybe at uh battelle maybe it
you know if in silicon valley if if you're trusted they you know people don't sign special contracts or
you know you're not you're not going to go eat lunch in san jose you know next year and that's the way
would be visible you know certainly in silicon valley and in other places
number of things that have intrigued me that the in in documents that we've looked at you know within
to know who the same you know a scientist at los alamos who's in a classified project uh
his knowledge that has a number of keywords and then you have somebody in czechoslovakia who looks at
what comes in within a particular group or particular office and if you see that keyword coming up then you can
in a salted state and i asked what he meant because i had never understood i had never heard
and that um you know i don't know about those techniques i've never been trained in in that
investigations together about those cases we've started to publish as you know in the number one
uh of course you know we're we may discover something in the analysis that tells us more about
played as they seem to have been played with the bass project in las vegas then the data is useless
somebody has a database and they may be very good people somewhere in a classified project and they
want to use it how you know in 14 years many of those witnesses have died they've moved you can't find
are much more capable and they are they have primitive ai and you know my phd was in ai from
in italy uh about that uh that case which is actually in um you know in in the in the report from
uh from the condon report uh that nobody has noticed because it's in in the appendix of the
but i i have the wood that was impacted by the radiation from that object which was an object in the
forest the the witness was a nuclear physicist so i put him in touch with condon dr heinic and i were
the first scientists who were called to testify you know in in boulder before the condon committee
uh get the data from the wood the the data we've uh we've looked at it in france and we published that
that paper with my my french uh physics uh colleagues and uh it was taken to saclay in france which is the
in a sort of ball of light in a clearing in a pine forest.
and the thing was pulsating, but it was no more than two or three meters in diameter.
He was just driving home with his family, and all that was published in the Condon Report.
after they had done, that's in the Condon report.
And in the same vein, I mean,
And, you know, the book was criticized with some flaws in my, you know, I mean,
that showed that there were some inaccuracies in what I had published.
And now that happens in science.
Hynek, you know, that there are cases, that there are cases in the Blue Book Fives that are
But in, in those, in those cases, you know, the classified cases, you know, I asked Dr.
He said, well, you know, this is in the very early days, this woman in Alaska saw a light in the sky.
Well, you know, what would be flying from east to west at very high altitude over Alaska in the fifties?
I mean, you know, too many spies in Washington and so on, they, you know, that again, that information will be sorted and changed and used.
Um, I think that in this, again, there is a place for secrecy that I respect.
And you've really, you've really, um, proven that case by going back into antiquity in a couple of your books and talking about how people are seeing the same things back then that they're seeing now.
Can you tell me how cases like Fatima in 1917, how they relate to the modern day UFO thing explained to us what happened in Fatima?
Fatima is very deep, um, both in terms of, uh, testimony.
And, uh, then messages coming from an entity in that ball of light.
in terms of the vegetation and so on.
they believe in all those miracles.
Well, the government in Portugal at the time in 1917 was socialist.
you know, current in all of Europe and so on.
a donkey in a cart
and in front of me,
of it in physics.
this is in the language of,
in miracles.
He was working in the fields
was still in the sky
in those days.
in the eyes of people
in the atmosphere.
in the same area,
in the same conditions,
in those prominent UFO cases
In those days, it was just a globe of light, up to two meters in diameter.
Of course, the impact of Fatima, like the impact of the miracles in Mexico and so on, has been enormous.
So, and it's in many ways for a scientist, you know, there isn't much more that you can do.
The year, again, was a year of the communist revolution in Russia.
Again, it was 1917, in a country with a socialist government that had forbidden people from coming there to see the alleged miracle.
The thing that, you know, that movie that was made about the case in Argentina is extraordinary because he, you know, he started making a movie about local traditions, local beliefs of the Indians.
It's a complex story and it's relevant, but, you know, he, they wanted to come interview me in San Francisco.
I mean, that's well recognized in that, that last, latest case I published, you know, with, with Dr. Nolan and with, with the group.
I think the, the other cases that I'm looking at that are the very special cases where you, you will notice that, that, that case in, from 1966, 67.
Lacombe, the character and in close encounters based on your life arranges and, and coordinates this meeting between humans and non-humans.
If that happened today in real life, we would not be told your friend, Dr. Hal Puthoff, our mutual friend has admitted in a, in a film that recently came out and in public presentations.
Well, last time you and I spoke, Jock, back in April, I asked you the question about it.
I, I knew about that, um, meeting when it, when it happened in, in, in Washington.
So it, it happens frequently in futures research.
And I understand I had other friends in that meeting and they say the same thing that, uh, that Hal says, uh, and they, they agree with the conclusion.
I've done, um, studies of crises, um, in, um, in other areas and reactions to crises.
There were people in other companies who had experienced the same failure and they knew how to fix it, except that they didn't have access to that particular company.
There are 200 companies in the US running some sort of nuclear, uh, nuclear plant or nuclear applications to, you know, electrical current.
And we had at the time, uh, we were pioneers in, in, uh, computer conferencing and we had a system, uh, to, to link together up to 54, uh, online simultaneously 54, uh, uh, individuals or groups.
He had the communist, you know, the, the, the, the, the resistance itself in the factories, in the trains, in the, you know, in the mines and so on.
And he had the admin, much of the administration that was still in place.
Now, um, that's in, in many crises, in industrial crises, which I've lived through as, you know, as an investor, I mean, every, every startup has a series of crises, you know, uh, even Google and Apple.
And, um, but by then he had learned something and he had the trust of the remaining people and he rebuilt Apple into what it is today, which is admittedly the leading, you know, personal computer company in the world.
Uh, the under, and that's a question that they didn't ask at that, uh, uh, at that test, you know, that, uh, my friends, uh, attended in, in Washington.
It, it all depends if you, if you trust your leader, whether that's in war or in business, uh, or in a situation where the desperate situation like France and it was invaded, became part of Germany, essentially.
Uh, the, the trust in the leader, you know, is the, is the key factor.
Is silent, it's absent, you know, it's not, I mean, in spite of all the, all the work that Dr. Nolan is doing, that I've done, that Dr. Hynek, you know, the, the professors are not following us.
You know, they are staying in on their campus doing their research, uh, and they don't trust.
You know, that farmer told me, or in one particular case, some very sophisticated people, professionals, who saw that little light, little light got larger.
Um, there, there are, there are, of course, in the cast, there are, uh, leaves of grass that are stuck to it.
You know, the craft was about 45 feet in diameter.
Um, that's, that's also an interesting case because it happened in France in broad daylight.
To the family home with, uh, two, uh, two girls in their early teens in the back of the car.
Uh, it, uh, it, uh, it was, it was strange because it seemed to be flying, but it stayed in the same position with respect to the car.
She's worked in the U S she's French.
And she said, she wanted nothing to do with, you know, with the officials, because again, she, many people now in the U S and in France and in other countries have gotten it.
You may report it to George, you know, to you, uh, or to me, if, if they are in contact with me, I get those reports.
They don't go any further anymore because those people don't want to be known in the community as crazy.
But the fact that it had government money in, in Bass, put limitations on where it could go.
Oh, well, it was in Africa somewhere.
What that does your picture show, you know, other things, planets or, you know, oh no, it's just a light in the sky.
It's not, you know, the sensational thing that was in the common report.
Uh, what about the wood that I have that, that I, you know, was last year, it was tested, you know, at an atomic lab in France.
And we, we know there is new information in the woods from that tree.
That we're going to continue working with, you know, those, uh, the same thing in, um, in medicine, you know, people chase ambulances.
Because that type of, uh, the, the type of biological entity is going to keep evolving and it will reappear in other things.
And he's been doing research in Africa on, on other, uh, you know, other things that are part of that family.
And that's certainly, you know, I, I think my last responsibility in this field is to transmit some of that, which is why I wanted to talk about the 1966 Hainesville case, you know, and really put it down, you know, reawaken it from its ashes and, uh, and, and bring it, bring it forward.
you know, was, uh, essentially the most outstanding team I've ever worked with in, in science.
Green worked on, on my, my data warehouse for two years, expanding it in certain areas.
I had consulted him about the structure that users would want in different disciplines.
And I implemented it based on the structure that the specialist gave me, which is what you do in, you know, when you're a computer guy.
Uh, that there were new cases coming in that I never knew about that had a different structure.
If we had been at IBM or AT&T or in any, you know, in a open company, because there were barriers and I didn't know about these cases.
In fact, I still don't know about these cases.
And that, that information can be contained and you're all in the same room working on the same device.
I have samples that are part of a case that people in other countries, and I could name, are keeping secret.
Uh, they may return something, but they've taken the good stuff in the meantime, and they may return something to you that has nothing to do.
And, you know, that happened in Socorro, you know, in that, that case.
Uh, Dr. Stanford died in the meantime.
You're not going to get, you know, your, your university, your lab, your students involved in something.
Well, that, that idea comes from a discussion I had in France with, with scientists and with, and because I was showing them the statistics that I had.
And as you, as you know, I've done a lot of computer work on, on this, looking at the in, at the inner structure, not, not the raw data, the filtered data.
And they sat me down and got me to read Skinner and the whole psychology, you know, thesis about, about induction of changes in behavior in animals and in humans.
Now, when I discussed it in France, I said, well, you know, a schedule of reinforcement or a, a, a, a, a, a, a mechanism like that can be natural or it can be artificial.
You know, in this room has a control system, you know, that controls the temperature.
And, you know, insects from Africa now showing up in Paris, you know, how did they get there from the, from the Sahara?
Well, they got, they got there because the temperature of France is going up two degrees in a few years, two degrees in a few years.
And if they show up according to a schedule of reinforcement in distinct waves over distinct countries, then it's an intelligent system.
You know, when you, in, in the lower role classes, you have to get good notes, good grades to graduate.
But there was something in the process, which was not written down anywhere where they didn't get the degree.
So, I, I spoke to Jacques Bergier who had been in a concentration camp.
He was involved, involved in that.
He was put in a concentration camp.
And he said in those concert, he was in three different concentration camps.
Uh, one time in one of his concentration camps, the, uh, all of a sudden the firemen from Munich were brought there by the Nazi.
They didn't know they were going to be released after three weeks, but they were put in the same regime as the, um, inmates of the concentration camp.
a prominent advisor to the goal and prominent publisher in Paris.
Um, he was in a, he said that was a control system, uh, but it could be open or closed depending on the conditions.
Um, there, there are cases that I know, uh, where there were, this happened in government facilities, but nobody's talking about that.
Those are not the entities that are described, um, at Trinity in, in, uh, in, you know, in, uh, in, in my book, um, uh, with Paula Harris.
They are not the entities that were, uh, caught in Brazil, um, that, that are, you know, in that documentary.
I mean, that report of, of that, that particular interaction was more than 20 years in, in, in the labs somewhere in control conditions.
But the, it was presented to them in a secure facility that I've never heard of anywhere else where, uh, it was presented to them in a secure facility that I've never heard of anywhere else.
The, the person I spoke to was, uh, uh, an extreme, you know, specialist in, in a particular discipline.
But I don't think it's a sophisticated, we've tested it in the lab.
It's what we spent over $10,000 testing it in Silicon Valley labs.
Uh, the craft itself, we had very good description of it, by the way, the, the shape and the, the, you know, the look and feel as, as people say in Silicon Valley is identical to the one in Socorro.
And it's identical to the one in Valenzal.
And what's funny is when people, uh, were, uh, describing it in a newspaper and they, they always hire an illustrator and the illustrator always draws a disc.
And they looked in under the, uh, under the thing when it was in the truck, in the army truck, which was on the side to go under the overpass.
He'll tell you, you know, time and space are fine to do equations, you know, in school.
And in the universe, you could go from one point to another without.
In the sense of we think about propulsion with engines and fuel and so on.
I mean, I, I can be in Romania tomorrow with my computer.
In, in remote viewing.
And I've experienced the physical data about that site physically in my body.
And he said, you're at the top of the peak in the Andes.
And I was in, in that classified room, you know, on the third floor of the SRI, in Menlo Park.
This was, you know, early in the morning.
Well, in depth, most of the time we went step by step and he wanted to see how good he could refine it with somebody who was not a remote viewer, but understood what remote viewing was by spontaneously.
And, uh, I, um, in that particular case, I, I, I broke the, the, the, the philology.
One time you came to my ranch in pioneer town, California, and we were sitting out watching the sunset and you said something to me.
And you said, there's, there's only one thing that we know for sure about UFOs that they represent an enormous amount of energy in a very, very small amount of space.
People are coming up and publishing models of how you could use, you know, thermonuclear energy in such a way that you could go very fast or you could manipulate things in the atmosphere.
I think the right question is probably not just in our brains.
You know, it's really, it's a phenomenon that is forcing us to look at our culture, look at, um, you know, what we do, um, in wars, what we do in, in business, what, um, you know, everything.
Everything is going to be in question, uh, not just the physics.
And, um, I think that's, that's what's in question.
And, and, uh, you know, that we, we have, we have difficulty in perceiving with our senses.