And I started pulling at the threads of it. And I think one of the fascinating things that happened,
[0:04:28 - 0:04:35] ▶
I was starting to research Nazi occultism, because that was going to be a chapter of
[0:04:35 - 0:04:40] ▶
heard is that JFK, you know, uh, fires Dulles. Dulles is sort of licking his wounds and really
[0:12:29 - 0:12:35] ▶
angry at JFK and the Brown brothers Harriman and re-operationalizes this S force to then take
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It seems like a level of coordination that is above the heads of all of the participants.
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Um, another example of, of that possibly is you talk about some of, you know, kind of people who
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And so, and Fred Krisman is, what is the Maury Island incident for, for people that aren't aware
[0:24:30 - 0:24:35] ▶
that there was actually more than one UFO incident in 1947? Right. We always think of Roswell when we think of 47,
[0:24:35 - 0:24:41] ▶
Fred Crisman then makes a few phone calls after his friend, uh, gets rained on by a UFO. And these
[0:27:35 - 0:27:43] ▶
want the full picture, head over to the American Alchemy magazine we just launched on Substack.
[0:29:29 - 0:29:35] ▶
That's where we deep dive into all sorts of crazy topics that we don't have time to fit into every
[0:29:35 - 0:29:40] ▶
Oh yeah. We got all the time in the world. All right. So there's, there's a crazy church.
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He was possibly mentally unstable. He was in hospital various times for this. And yet he's the go-to guy
[0:34:58 - 0:35:05] ▶
to get background information on anybody. Right. Martin was incredible that way. And he stayed
[0:35:05 - 0:35:10] ▶
in his persona as a priest and bishop the rest of his life. So the photographs I have of him in the 1970s,
[0:35:10 - 0:35:17] ▶
years after the Kennedy assassination stuff that was going on in New Orleans. And he's in the, in the,
[0:35:17 - 0:35:23] ▶
the whole outfit, right? So you, wow. So you're saying that the Orthodox Catholic Church in the U.S.
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at the time was acting as some sort of front, possibly coordinating or helping with the JFK assassination?
[0:35:29 - 0:35:35] ▶
Absolutely. The American Orthodox Catholic Church legally came into being in 1965. So it's two years after the
[0:35:35 - 0:35:41] ▶
assassination legally in New York. However, it preexisted in different places around the country.
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And it got coalesced into one group in 65. And this is where it gets even stranger because in 1965,
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when all this is done, the leader of that church in the Bronx, in New York of all places,
[0:35:54 - 0:35:59] ▶
of weirdness in my family. We had traveled around a lot, uh, here and there. Strange things happened
[0:58:30 - 0:58:35] ▶
to us. And for, for a while in 1965, 66, um, I was fascinated with occultism in general, at least what
[0:58:35 - 0:58:42] ▶
aboriginal uprising in Australia outside of Perth. It was very specific. And we thought, oh my God,
[1:00:27 - 1:00:35] ▶
this is going to happen. People are going to die. So my mother and I, you were told by the spirits,
[1:00:35 - 1:00:40] ▶
fancies fantasies, right? And the fantasies are really powerful and really dangerous and fantasies can
[1:02:29 - 1:02:35] ▶
sometimes become ideologies. And when they become ideologies, they take on another power because they
[1:02:35 - 1:02:40] ▶
UFOs? Because you and Tom DeLonge, who I think is extremely knowledgeable on this topic and, and both,
[1:12:35 - 1:12:45] ▶
channels. Suddenly that was all over the place. Right. That one particular presentation got a lot of
[1:17:30 - 1:17:35] ▶
views, hundreds of thousands of views when it first came out. So I think that might've been the trigger
[1:17:35 - 1:17:41] ▶
Wreck of the Titan or Futility, Wreck of the Titan. And the ship is called the Titan and it crashes in
[1:25:29 - 1:25:35] ▶
the middle of the Atlantic at night. And it's an iceberg and it's the largest, you know, liner of its time.
[1:25:35 - 1:25:43] ▶
before it ever happened.
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The glitch is the proof. The glitch is the proof that this is a malleable reality that we live in.
[1:27:35 - 1:27:44] ▶
in a regular ceremony. Then you have sex in the cemetery, either on the ground,
[1:32:30 - 1:32:35] ▶
so, yeah, if you have a, you know, kind of a whole epistemology that is more based on meaning than time.
[1:34:56 - 1:35:04] ▶
Right. And connections between events versus just some like, you know, um, flowing of time that is
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sort of permanent. Um, you know, you have the, you know, the, the proverbial kind of river of time that,
[1:35:11 - 1:35:16] ▶
you know, you get out, you can't, you never get out in the same place twice. Right.
[1:35:16 - 1:35:19] ▶
That will probably be get a whole different, you know, epistemology in life that you would lead and,
[1:35:19 - 1:35:26] ▶
and, and society and culture, you know, if you extrapolate that out. So it's fascinating. You know,
[1:35:26 - 1:35:31] ▶
time is the most used noun in the English language and it's completely undefinable. It's definable
[1:35:31 - 1:35:37] ▶
only with respect to the movement of bodies or even, you know, in, in science, it's sort of, you know,
[1:35:37 - 1:35:42] ▶
oscillations on an electromagnetic wave or something. Sure.
[1:35:42 - 1:35:46] ▶
But it's, uh, it's so weird and it's weird scientifically too. You know, it's taken as
[1:35:46 - 1:35:50] ▶
this kind of, um, classical axiom in quantum mechanics. Uh, but you know, you have time
[1:35:50 - 1:35:57] ▶
uncertainty with level of energy, you know, just like you have position and momentum uncertainty.
[1:35:57 - 1:36:01] ▶
say, that's how we started on this planet. This, this is how civilization began. That we,
[1:38:30 - 1:38:35] ▶
in the river, you know, outside of Sumer and comes up out of a vehicle of some kind and he's wearing a
[1:40:28 - 1:40:35] ▶
weird suit with a strange hat, which we can talk about later. And he walks up to the people and he
[1:40:35 - 1:40:41] ▶
Tom is sending me these, these long emails that he's getting, right? And he's saying,
[1:47:29 - 1:47:35] ▶
what the hell do you make of this? Uh, and, um, we, we get on the phone and we start talking about
[1:47:35 - 1:47:41] ▶
Mm. Right. So they replaced the rituals of a baptism, for instance, with a,
[2:02:30 - 2:02:35] ▶
a Nordic style christening. They replaced the marriage rights with a Nordic style marriage right.
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They had the result they wanted. They're looking for stuff to confirm it. They didn't look for stuff
[2:04:31 - 2:04:35] ▶
that didn't confirm it, only for stuff that confirmed it. So here's the evidence that confirms
[2:04:35 - 2:04:39] ▶
extended ourselves and trying to invade Russia for crying out loud. Napoleon could have told you not to
[2:06:31 - 2:06:35] ▶
do that, right? So all of these mistakes we made are not ours. They're somebody else's. So naturally,
[2:06:35 - 2:06:44] ▶
And Himmler, one or two cards short of a deck, right? He builds Weifelsberg Castle,
[2:07:29 - 2:07:35] ▶
right? Which I went to and I did a TV thing like 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago for that,
[2:07:35 - 2:07:41] ▶
You had Wernher von Braun going through these rituals. His mentor, Herman Oberth, on record,
[2:08:35 - 2:08:39] ▶
been shipped out of the bank of Lisbon by submarine. 20 tons went to Macau. Well, they all went to Macau.
[2:13:28 - 2:13:35] ▶
20 tons went into China and 20 tons went into Indonesia. That 20 tons of gold probably jump-started what
[2:13:35 - 2:13:42] ▶
you're talking about all the Nazi scientists, uh, Walter Dornberger from Peenemunde, his first
[2:17:28 - 2:17:35] ▶
posting was to Wright-Patterson. He was in Wright-Patterson when the Roswell debris was brought,
[2:17:35 - 2:17:41] ▶
And what was the overall context, right? If you look at it, you're looking at a geopolitical sense
[2:22:30 - 2:22:35] ▶
to the United States government at the time, we preferred to have the Nazis so that we could
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You know, the Nazi ideal was get rid of all of these people because they're in our way.
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It was a Horton. It was never going to fly. It crashed. End of story.
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I mean, I'm comfortable with you lying to me. You've been lying to us for years.
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Lie to me again and say, no, we don't have a saucer.
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Don't leave it open-ended.
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Don't leave it like, maybe, you know, we have a flying saucer.
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What does that mean?
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Why would you say that?
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Is that part of a disinformation project that's been underway since 1947?
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You guys haven't gotten over that yet? You know, we've gotten over it, right?
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We're done with it, right? We're okay. You can tell us anything at this point.
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And then there's guys that come out and say, no, there's definitely a saucer.
[2:35:31 - 2:35:34] ▶
And there's people in government who come out and say, there's definitely a saucer.
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We saw it, right? There's people in the program.
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They were coming out and saying, no, there is definitely there. There's...
[2:35:40 - 2:35:43] ▶
Okay. At one point I was talking to a guy called, you've probably heard of him, Michael Aquino.
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Infamous guy, right?
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Isn't he like a Satanist or something?
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Yeah. Temple of Set. He found it. He was with LeVay's Satanic Church of Satan.
[2:35:53 - 2:35:57] ▶
He had the weird eyebrows. All the rest of it. He was implicated in all sorts of things.
[2:35:58 - 2:36:04] ▶
follow. And that was their kind of modus operandi. Stay on top of them, feed them all sorts of weird
[2:40:27 - 2:40:35] ▶
shit. They believe in this, make ghosts. They believe in vampires, create vampires, right?
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And it's an old model. Again, a station wagon, the kind with the wood trim, you know, the old
[2:49:35 - 2:49:40] ▶
doing this. Um, it's, it, believe me, it connects, it all connects up. We formed this church. Okay.
[2:59:28 - 2:59:35] ▶
undercurrents and connections. And it was like a satanic sort of serial killer movie with ritual
[3:04:30 - 3:04:35] ▶
overtones that took place in a Catholic church during Holy Communion and everything. So it was all this,
[3:04:35 - 3:04:39] ▶
sent to prison. They served time for it, uh, in federal facilities. So, you know, my friend was
[3:11:30 - 3:11:35] ▶
wise to stay or get as far away from it as possible, but still, I mean, he was the church they belonged to
[3:11:35 - 3:11:40] ▶
various occult societies and stuff who had the connections to do some of the, the, uh, the typesetting.
[3:13:29 - 3:13:35] ▶
In those days, there were no computers per se. So making a book was much more laborious than it is
[3:13:35 - 3:13:41] ▶
that you'll find online. They mostly emphasize the drugs and LSD research of operation often,
[3:26:29 - 3:26:35] ▶
but some of the side operations involved studying witchcraft, studying occultism, studying magic,
[3:26:35 - 3:26:41] ▶
there that was funded by CIA for a long time. The guy who ran that was the guy who, to go back again
[3:28:28 - 3:28:35] ▶
he even said silicon, which makes me think like the modern AI race with compute, because all these chips
[3:34:59 - 3:35:04] ▶
are on the Nvidia chips are all silicon. Right.
[3:35:04 - 3:35:07] ▶
So, um, interesting. Well, that's wild. Yeah. You know, um, something that I have to credit to
[3:35:07 - 3:35:13] ▶
Lincoln that he always brings up is the space Delta seven patch. This is, this is now connecting to your
[3:35:13 - 3:35:19] ▶
amazing book, Stairway to Heaven, which I love because it, it creates, you know, if you're looking
[3:35:19 - 3:35:25] ▶
for this Joseph Campbell style kind of underpinning architecture behind all the world's religions,
[3:35:25 - 3:35:32] ▶
you have to look to some of these more esoteric practices and you have in Judaism, the Merkava,
[3:35:32 - 3:35:37] ▶
which is, you know, the idea of Ezekiel going up on the chariot. Um, but you have uncovered all this
[3:35:38 - 3:35:44] ▶
research around seven levels being this recurring theme across Chinese shanking Taoism, Islam, um,
[3:35:44 - 3:35:56] ▶
Rosicrucianism, like all these different, I mean, the ziggurats and heck a load and yeah,
[3:35:56 - 3:36:02] ▶
I believe you're supposed to be 35 and like married and very grounded before even starting
[3:42:30 - 3:42:37] ▶
Edel, very famous Kabbalah scholar, right? Probably the one who inherited the mantle of Gershom Sholem.
[3:43:29 - 3:43:35] ▶
if it can be part of a grounded approach to this material without taking on board all of the
[3:44:30 - 3:44:35] ▶
religious symbolisms and restrictions and everything else that's involved, but understanding what those
[3:44:35 - 3:44:40] ▶
David Wright- Skinwalker.
[3:55:34 - 3:55:35] ▶
Paul Jayne- For Skinwalker.
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there's top secret, not much else, but there's a lot of gray areas, right? And a lot of abuse of the
[3:57:29 - 3:57:35] ▶
classification system as well. But there's just a lot of gray areas where this is concerned and things
[3:57:35 - 3:57:41] ▶
Or whatever it is, whatever kind of weird cockamay be regulations they have for this,
[3:58:31 - 3:58:35] ▶
or they can't get fluttered every year, you know, the lie detectors to determine, you know,
[3:58:35 - 3:58:39] ▶
I mean, we know he was visited by people from the government, right? This, he pretty much is open
[4:00:31 - 4:00:35] ▶
about that. But then it dies. The story dies after that. What do you do? How do you handle it?
[4:00:35 - 4:00:41] ▶
civilians are people. You have just as much access to the, you know, maybe they have some, you know,
[4:02:35 - 4:02:40] ▶
and human ideas. We think they must, of course they'll want to talk to the president. Why?
[4:04:31 - 4:04:35] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[4:04:35 - 4:04:36] ▶
congressional hearings where everybody's talking about, and David Grush talks about this.
[4:08:29 - 4:08:35] ▶
Elizondo talks about this. George Knapp testified in front of Congress about this.
[4:08:35 - 4:08:39] ▶
talk about UFOs or like the famous event mentioned in John Alexander's book. Was it Ben Rich that he
[4:12:27 - 4:12:35] ▶
talked about? A guy at Lockheed? Yeah. I mean, Ben Rich said some remarkable stuff.
[4:12:35 - 4:12:39] ▶
But then he was, I thought he was arrested by the Nazis. Then they were like,
[4:15:31 - 4:15:35] ▶
are you a fascist? And he said, I'm a super fascist.
[4:15:35 - 4:15:37] ▶
cause you're looking for confirmation of God. It's like a Gnostic quest where you're like poking the bear
[4:19:31 - 4:19:35] ▶
as much as you can to get like God to show himself to you or something. And then, but then once,
[4:19:35 - 4:19:40] ▶
Yeah. But no one knew what that meant.
[4:22:34 - 4:22:35] ▶
Okay. But I, my ears and eyes are open, right? Yeah. And so all of this is going on. So
[4:24:30 - 4:24:35] ▶
Field Engineering for us was, was the red flag. We knew what that meant. And then when I saw Lazar's
[4:24:35 - 4:24:40] ▶
being a field, a field engineering officer as part of Bendix is often.
[4:25:30 - 4:25:35] ▶
Right. Often. Not always. Associated with intelligence. Right. And he was in that group
[4:25:35 - 4:25:40] ▶
all over the world in other positions, not having to do with field engineering, that got the traction of
[4:26:30 - 4:26:35] ▶
local governments that didn't like them. We had a guy, we lost a guy in Uruguay, was captured by the
[4:26:35 - 4:26:41] ▶
People are saying it's angels, it's demons, it's space aliens. It's from another dimension, whatever.
[4:29:30 - 4:29:35] ▶
We're, we're, we're throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks, but it's something there.
[4:29:35 - 4:29:39] ▶
of the, of the UFO? What do we begin? And Harry Reed says, what are you talking about? It's already there.
[4:31:30 - 4:31:35] ▶
It's there. Every, all the information is there. You've got it already. It's already in print.
[4:31:35 - 4:31:40] ▶
back from a subject, when you sleep on it, revelations happen. When you step away from it for a while,
[4:34:59 - 4:35:05] ▶
you go take a walk and that walk could be for a couple of hours or a couple of years. You come back to it
[4:35:05 - 4:35:11] ▶
later. Suddenly you see it in a whole new light. You have more information. You have more things to
[4:35:11 - 4:35:15] ▶
bring to the table because now you have human experience as well. You have your experience with
[4:35:15 - 4:35:20] ▶
the world and now you can look at things a bit more clearly with a bit more nuance and try to
[4:35:20 - 4:35:26] ▶
deconstruct a situation that way. I found that's helped me a lot. It's helped me in dealing with
[4:35:26 - 4:35:30] ▶
people because people lie to you all the time, right? And they do it sometimes unconsciously. They do
[4:35:30 - 4:35:35] ▶
it without knowing they're lying. They're telling you untruths that they think are truths,
[4:35:35 - 4:35:38] ▶
but because they're so believable, you believe them. And that's also a problem. You know,
[4:35:38 - 4:35:44] ▶
is there truth really truth? I know it's getting really philosophical at this point.
[4:35:44 - 4:35:49] ▶
No, it's great. We're losing our, our way here.
[4:35:49 - 4:35:52] ▶
Well, I'll give you my, my final, final question, which is no. And that was all really sage advice
[4:35:52 - 4:35:58] ▶
and well said in my opinion and, and things I grapple with, you know, being, being in the topic where I'm
[4:35:58 - 4:36:03] ▶
that like, you know, this is something that is for you. What, what do you, what do you do at that
[4:36:30 - 4:36:35] ▶
point? Well, there's a couple of things. It depends on your own background. Like, um, for instance,
[4:36:35 - 4:36:40] ▶
Alchemist, did you enjoy that? Well, here's the thing. That episode was just the tip of the iceberg.
[4:40:29 - 4:40:35] ▶
If you want the full picture, head over to the American Alchemy magazine we just launched on
[4:40:35 - 4:40:41] ▶