and

But he sort of took Puharich under his wing and, from what I understand, was the first person who introduced him to, you know, whatever weird science, if you want to call it that.

[0:07:07 - 0:07:20] ▶

Because he was one of these guys, McCullough, who would, you know, on his off time, do all these like, strange experiments with radio frequencies and that kind of stuff.

[0:07:20 - 0:07:31] ▶

And I think like, in the academic setting, he had to, you know, put on a suit and tie and like, not talk about that, basically.

[0:07:31 - 0:07:38] ▶

Like, he was always getting sort of like, we have letters from like, CIA and stuff back then, who were kind of going to him with questions and so forth.

[0:07:45 - 0:07:57] ▶

And he actually, there was an archive in, I think it wasn't Northwestern.

[0:08:00 - 0:08:06] ▶

And, you know, I know you had Annie Jacobson on, like she's in the film.

[0:08:12 - 0:08:16] ▶

And she was trying to find records on McCullough because, you know, it was really interesting.

[0:08:17 - 0:08:22] ▶

And somehow we found this like, big stash of archives of his that, again, were these letters from CIA and the Navy and everything, sort of, I guess, wanting to recruit him.

[0:08:23 - 0:08:38] ▶

And he was older, like much older than Puharich at that time.

[0:08:50 - 0:08:54] ▶

And he sort of had this moment back then where he's like, I'm either going to choose the traditional academic path or I'm going to choose the, you know, path of ESP telepathy.

[0:09:07 - 0:09:18] ▶

And he talks very openly about like making that choice.

[0:09:18 - 0:09:22] ▶

He was impressed by my quest for the existence of telepathy and granted me a large sum of money.

[0:09:31 - 0:09:38] ▶

Additional benefactors emerged, including the heirs to two of the wealthiest families in the world, the Astors and the DuPonts.

[0:09:39 - 0:09:46] ▶

I was able to get a barn. I started working in the dead of winter in 48th and in Maine.

[0:09:46 - 0:09:52] ▶

We lived in a big 50 room house on the seashore, which was a lab and residence and so on.

[0:09:53 - 0:10:00] ▶

And so he opens the Roundtable Foundation.

[0:10:03 - 0:10:06] ▶

I learned like he tells a different story of how the Roundtable started and how we got the money and everything to what we kind of figured out was really going on.

[0:10:26 - 0:10:39] ▶

And this was, yeah, 49, 50, very early.

[0:11:12 - 0:11:16] ▶

And you think their preliminary interest was mind control, telepathy, anything beyond the purview of kind of normal materialist reductionist physics that might be able to be weaponized or confer a tactical advantage to the United States?

[0:11:18 - 0:11:33] ▶

But I think obviously there was an interest in ESP and in what he was doing and in this idea of, okay, what if this is real?

[0:11:37 - 0:11:47] ▶

I mean, he speaks a lot and we, you know, we've uncovered like hundreds of tape recordings of his that no one's ever heard.

[0:11:47 - 0:11:54] ▶

And so, you know, he talks a lot about like, they were just obsessed at that time with like, what if this were real?

[0:11:54 - 0:12:00] ▶

And this is something like, I don't think is really out there.

[0:12:07 - 0:12:10] ▶

Because the story is that, you know, official American remote viewing kind of started with Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ and Stanford Research Institute.

[0:12:24 - 0:12:31] ▶

And so, yeah, I think they were, they, you know, intelligence community, so forth, were just very intrigued with what was going on there.

[0:13:06 - 0:13:16] ▶

So it's a combination of kind of, you know, these military factions and then these kind of blue blooded elites.

[0:13:16 - 0:13:22] ▶

And what exactly is going on there?

[0:13:24 - 0:13:28] ▶

So who is he recruiting to do these experiments and what sort of experiments is he running at the Roundtable Foundation?

[0:13:28 - 0:13:34] ▶

And when the opportunity came up to work with them, I jumped at it because it's one of the few things I actually drink before a night out with friends when it's time to celebrate a special event.

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And that little decision I make before I go out changes everything.

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Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, of course drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow.

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So go to zbiotics.com slash jesse to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use jesse at checkout.

[0:14:50 - 0:14:59] ▶

Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash jesse and use the code jesse at checkout for 15% off.

[0:15:10 - 0:15:18] ▶

So who is he recruiting to do these experiments, and what sort of experiments is he running at the Roundtable Foundation?

[0:15:22 - 0:15:28] ▶

And then he obviously built a Faraday cage there, and I think, you know, was one of the first people, as far as I understand, doing ESP tests in a Faraday cage, where basically he would put people who claimed to be psychic in the cage.

[0:15:46 - 0:16:01] ▶

And it was his belief that that could sort of block out anything from the outside, and it would really help the psychic focus and be able to do what they could do.

[0:16:02 - 0:16:11] ▶

And he had, I mean, Aldous Huxley would go to the Roundtable Foundation, right?

[0:16:11 - 0:16:16] ▶

And obviously, Aldous Huxley is known probably best for a lot of his science fiction work, but also, you know, the Doors of Perception, where he talks about his experience with Mescaline.

[0:16:16 - 0:16:27] ▶

And then, you know, if you really get into the maybe deeper kind of architectures of his thinking, like in perennial philosophy, he's like clearly this kind of deep esotericist.

[0:16:27 - 0:16:37] ▶

And so he was hanging out at the Roundtable Foundation, too.

[0:16:38 - 0:16:41] ▶

I had read that book when I was much younger, and I was really interested in all that stuff.

[0:16:49 - 0:16:55] ▶

And, you know, what's the book?

[0:16:55 - 0:16:57] ▶

And I came across The Sacred Mushroom, Buharic's book, which is very interesting.

[0:17:01 - 0:17:06] ▶

The premise is basically, you know, and this was also the research he was doing at the Roundtable, was, you know, taking a certain type of mushroom.

[0:17:11 - 0:17:20] ▶

In this instance, the Amanita muscaria, you know, gives people ESP abilities, and they did extensive research on that there.

[0:17:20 - 0:17:28] ▶

But on the cover of that book, you know, Aldous Huxley gives a blurb for Buharic and calls him, you know, the greatest mind in parapsychology.

[0:17:28 - 0:17:36] ▶

And the Amanita muscaria mushroom is a very interesting mushroom.

[0:17:47 - 0:17:50] ▶

And so the actual transubstantiation involved this, like, mushroom.

[0:18:13 - 0:18:17] ▶

And that maybe what Jesus underwent was some sort of kind of pagan mystery ritual that allowed him to sort of gain the magical powers that he achieved in the book of Acts.

[0:18:17 - 0:18:28] ▶

And that that whole thing had some kind of hermetic meaning that, you know, isn't just maybe a literal reincarnation or something.

[0:18:28 - 0:18:36] ▶

And so I assume that must have, because I think the name of his book is similar.

[0:18:37 - 0:18:41] ▶

And that, I think, kind of kick-started the, you know, way people looked at Buharic as being, you know, kind of like a kook.

[0:19:04 - 0:19:12] ▶

Clearly, but he was, he also was amongst, he was kind of a pioneer and had a few peers who were also at the forefront of their fields.

[0:19:16 - 0:19:24] ▶

People like Albert Hoffman, Karl Ruck, and Stanislav Grof, who thought of themselves as creating what they called the new Eleusis, based on kind of, you know, past mystery rituals, the Eleusinian mystery rituals.

[0:19:24 - 0:19:36] ▶

And they involved Urgot and psychedelic substances and, you know, these sort of, you know, Persephone's quest style.

[0:19:37 - 0:19:44] ▶

You know, you go down, you descend to the underworld and you come back up and you, you know, you gain knowledge of your primordial soul.

[0:19:44 - 0:19:51] ▶

And so, Buharic was, you know, he was amidst this backdrop.

[0:19:51 - 0:19:57] ▶

We nine and our will.

[0:20:17 - 0:20:20] ▶

And it is correct.

[0:21:13 - 0:21:15] ▶

And the story goes, he shows up in Maine, goes to the round table foundation.

[0:21:36 - 0:21:42] ▶

And the first night he's there, he just unexpectedly falls into a trance.

[0:21:42 - 0:21:48] ▶

And, you know, they're like, what's going on here?

[0:21:49 - 0:21:52] ▶

And he goes into a trance and he just starts speaking, you know, saying, you know, we are the nine and where we're coming through to you now.

[0:21:55 - 0:22:05] ▶

And just kind of on and on and on and on about a lot of philosophical new age sort of stuff, basically.

[0:22:05 - 0:22:14] ▶

And it was mostly because these new facts and things would just like come up that I never knew.

[0:22:47 - 0:22:53] ▶

And so Vinod, like I only really discovered a couple years into it, but he was an interesting guy.

[0:22:54 - 0:23:01] ▶

And he was on a tour at the time in the United States going to like rotary clubs and dinner parties,

[0:23:01 - 0:23:09] ▶

like lecturing about theosophy and spiritualism and all sorts of stuff like that.

[0:23:10 - 0:23:17] ▶

And it is very, very little information on this guy.

[0:23:17 - 0:23:21] ▶

And again, with Buharic, like he never mentions any of that.

[0:23:31 - 0:23:34] ▶

And then when Vinod leaves, eventually, I think 54, he goes back and it never talks about him again.

[0:23:53 - 0:23:58] ▶

And he just sort of like never talks about it.

[0:24:04 - 0:24:07] ▶

And even now, I always think.

[0:24:35 - 0:24:38] ▶

And earnestly.

[0:24:41 - 0:24:42] ▶

Because, and we'll get into this in a little bit, but there are also possible prosaic explanations

[0:24:46 - 0:24:51] ▶

in people and stuff, which is nuts.

[0:24:57 - 0:25:00] ▶

And so, again, it's really, it's a lot.

[0:25:13 - 0:25:17] ▶

And he's written some amazing books.

[0:25:24 - 0:25:26] ▶

And so he was friends with this woman, Marianne Shenefield, this, you know, allegedly amazing

[0:25:26 - 0:25:33] ▶

And he said, you know, I met Buharic once.

[0:25:37 - 0:25:41] ▶

And he wanted to interview these people involved.

[0:25:59 - 0:26:02] ▶

And in fact, he has one of the only interviews, as far as I know, with Sidney Gottlieb.

[0:26:02 - 0:26:07] ▶

He literally told me to show it up at his house and said, hey, you know, yes or no, will you let me interview you?

[0:26:09 - 0:26:15] ▶

And he said yes.

[0:26:15 - 0:26:16] ▶

And so he has that.

[0:26:16 - 0:26:18] ▶

And that they've been monitoring Earth and they've been seeing the negative things happening.

[0:26:57 - 0:27:04] ▶

And they're wanting to help, basically.

[0:27:09 - 0:27:12] ▶

And a lot of, like, write this down because you'll understand later what it means sort of stuff.

[0:27:53 - 0:27:58] ▶

And we have this notebook that he wrote everything in.

[0:27:58 - 0:28:01] ▶

And on top of that, you should tweak the Faraday cage and build it this way and use this type of metal and use this.

[0:28:31 - 0:28:40] ▶

They were, they were telling him and constructing him how to like build the Faraday cage in a specific way that would like help this transmission.

[0:28:40 - 0:28:50] ▶

And it did because you can hear the tapes.

[0:28:50 - 0:28:53] ▶

It was a lot, it was very like stalled speech and waiting.

[0:28:53 - 0:28:56] ▶

And then when they did the Faraday cage sessions, it was like, just boom, they would talk.

[0:28:56 - 0:29:01] ▶

So I heard that and I was like, okay, well that that's weird.

[0:29:01 - 0:29:05] ▶

And it needs to be, you know, these dimensions, I mean, really specific stuff and they would follow it.

[0:29:19 - 0:29:24] ▶

And you see the results get better as far as their channeling.

[0:29:29 - 0:29:32] ▶

And that again, to me, I just thought that's, that's, that's interesting because it's not just sort of like, you know, spiritual mumbo jumbo.

[0:29:34 - 0:29:44] ▶

And the other thing too, was again, it was this copper, this thing with copper, where they would also say, okay, what you need to do is you need to get the, this is really crazy.

[0:29:59 - 0:30:11] ▶

And his story, but they would say, you know, you need to have copper touching your, your skin.

[0:30:13 - 0:30:18] ▶

And so you would, you would need some sort of like bracelet or something that would kind of like constantly be touching your skin in order again, for like the, the transmission to be better.

[0:30:18 - 0:30:31] ▶

And they would do that.

[0:30:31 - 0:30:32] ▶

And what's crazy is, uh, one of the space kids that I met and that we interviewed for the film, she whipped out this, uh, this was, you know, only a couple of years ago.

[0:30:32 - 0:30:43] ▶

And he, and Puharic obsessed over that.

[0:30:57 - 0:30:59] ▶

And that's the other thing to me, you know, being a little skeptical, I was like, well, someone of Puharic's, uh, you know, academic abilities, like clearly he, he, he wouldn't take the time.

[0:30:59 - 0:31:12] ▶

And the energy, like to look into this stuff as deep as he did, you know, like he like obsessed over this, he would go meet other academics.

[0:31:12 - 0:31:20] ▶

And, you know, he really like was obsessive about this being legitimate.

[0:31:22 - 0:31:27] ▶

And Phyllis Schlamer, who later wrote the only planet of choice, which channels the nine.

[0:31:28 - 0:31:34] ▶

And like other planets being more ascended and these nine really trying to help raise consciousness on earth, which might sort of sound like a cliche, but.

[0:31:42 - 0:31:53] ▶

And they would go outside by the ocean and they would see orbs.

[0:32:07 - 0:32:12] ▶

Uh, and this happened.

[0:32:12 - 0:32:13] ▶

And the only, you know, evidence I, I have is Buharic's own writing, cause we have all of his journals and he writes this in his journals where he literally says like this psychic would just blur it out.

[0:32:13 - 0:32:23] ▶

You know, 11 o'clock, you know, tonight and they'd go out and they would see an orb.

[0:32:23 - 0:32:28] ▶

And I just thought that was interesting because of there's, there's so much talk of this orb stuff going on.

[0:32:30 - 0:32:35] ▶

And he, he, he did many experiments where he allegedly took photos, which of course, you know, weren't in the big stash of photos we had from back then.

[0:32:41 - 0:32:51] ▶

These people who seem to attract, uh, these orbs and it would make sense because those people also seem to be sort of high psi or, you know, you know, have higher kind of mind matter capabilities or whatever.

[0:33:04 - 0:33:14] ▶

nine Egyptian, uh, gods or whatever. We don't exactly know what these nine beings are, but it's like a council. And, and later the nine praise plays prominently because this channel or Phyllis Schlamer, uh, like gets all these messages from the nine along with a lot of the kids and stuff.

[0:33:28 - 0:33:45] ▶

To make a long story short, there's a seance that's held in, uh, late 52, early 53. I think it was the New Year's Eve of 52 to 53. And there are nine people involved in the seance. Now, these are not just some casual nine people you pick up, like, you know, your neighbors or something, right? This was a DuPont and an Astor and a Forbes. I mean, everybody that represents the, the blue blooded Brahmins of American society, old money people, were at a seance, a free

[0:33:55 - 0:34:25] ▶

freaking seance, right? In the woods, in Maine on New Year's Eve with Andrea Paharic. And one of them, uh, is the guy who was the inventor of the bell helicopter. Right. So.

[0:34:25 - 0:34:38] ▶

Is that Arthur Young? Arthur Young. So Arthur Young is there with his wife. His wife is Ruth Forbes Payne Young. Right. She had a lot of names. She was excessively nomenclatured. And so you have, you know, Ruth Forbes Payne Young. She's a Forbes.

[0:34:38 - 0:34:52] ▶

Mm-hmm. She was married to a George, uh, Payne, Lyman Payne, and also married to Arthur Young.

[0:34:52 - 0:34:58] ▶

And so she's a Forbes first. So again, going to the blue blooded elite thing.

[0:35:12 - 0:35:16] ▶

And Lee Harvey Oswald is living with Ruth Payne. And I think gets a job at the Texas Book Depository

[0:35:23 - 0:35:30] ▶

And then ends up, you know, maybe not being the lone gunman, but, you know, attempting JFK's life.

[0:35:34 - 0:35:42] ▶

And in her home, she opens her door to some refugees, you know, people who are recent immigrants

[0:35:42 - 0:35:47] ▶

from Russia. Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife, Marina.

[0:35:47 - 0:35:51] ▶

And their kids.

[0:35:51 - 0:35:52] ▶

And so it's these weird entanglements where, and the nine believed themselves to be sort of agents,

[0:36:02 - 0:36:09] ▶

And so like, and I know Pooverich would stop at airports and meditate because he thought he would

[0:36:16 - 0:36:21] ▶

be bringing about world peace and that the nine would speak to him through his watch and stuff.

[0:36:21 - 0:36:26] ▶

And so I wonder sometimes, was it all good or was it bad? I mean, I don't think, you know,

[0:36:26 - 0:36:31] ▶

And it kind of worked.

[0:36:54 - 0:36:55] ▶

It disappeared, reappeared, and then half the crew got atomically fused into the ship's walls.

[0:36:56 - 0:37:01] ▶

And you know who was leading the whole project?

[0:37:08 - 0:37:10] ▶

If you've ever tried to schedule a meeting across five time zones and six platforms,

[0:37:32 - 0:37:37] ▶

Fully entangled and synced across time zones, timelines, even caffeine levels.

[0:38:04 - 0:38:09] ▶

Make this the year where no opportunity and no customer slips away.

[0:38:10 - 0:38:14] ▶

And starting in, I think, 63, basically she worked with him, I think until like the mid-80s.

[0:38:46 - 0:38:54] ▶

And she's amazing.

[0:38:54 - 0:38:56] ▶

And Puharic was working.

[0:39:02 - 0:39:04] ▶

assassinated and that these men in suits, she says, came into the offices, went into Puharic's

[0:39:28 - 0:39:36] ▶

And they left.

[0:39:40 - 0:39:41] ▶

And she said the whole rest of the day Puharic was out of sorts.

[0:39:41 - 0:39:44] ▶

But he claims that we ran out of funding, the benefactors lost interest, and it shut down.

[0:40:15 - 0:40:21] ▶

And I think Lavenda, I think, talks about this.

[0:40:32 - 0:40:34] ▶

you know, certain groups of people to believe in something and to what extent?

[0:40:52 - 0:40:56] ▶

And a lot of people think that that was like the nine.

[0:40:56 - 0:40:59] ▶

And that it was all set up as this sort of psychological warfare experiment, which, you know, there's reasons to think that that could be true.

[0:41:06 - 0:41:16] ▶

And the idea that they were that sophisticated at the very start of MKUltra where they could convince these sort of elite members of society that they were in touch with these specific extraterrestrial beings.

[0:41:35 - 0:41:46] ▶

And that those extraterrestrial beings were constructing Faraday chambers that were able to like make the messages they received more effective.

[0:41:46 - 0:41:56] ▶

The years and years I research.

[0:42:06 - 0:42:08] ▶

Like a lot of people I talk to who are interested in this stuff and know about the film and so forth.

[0:42:10 - 0:42:15] ▶

Like they think that I know all the answers and I, I, I even, I wish I did.

[0:42:15 - 0:42:21] ▶

And it's not like I'm hiding something because I'm worried that, you know, I'm going to be a monitor.

[0:42:22 - 0:42:26] ▶

And a lot of the film for me was like, okay, what, what do we know?

[0:42:29 - 0:42:35] ▶

And let's like work off that.

[0:42:36 - 0:42:37] ▶

And so it was really just like, okay, here's the transcripts.

[0:42:37 - 0:42:40] ▶

And were they, they thinking that intellectron had something to do with this or?

[0:42:57 - 0:43:03] ▶

And all of a sudden Puharich has what's considered like a mansion there, basically huge house.

[0:43:35 - 0:43:41] ▶

I wept for my failure to keep her healthy and happy.

[0:44:25 - 0:44:29] ▶

And we have all the documents that we found that prove that they went and visited him.

[0:45:08 - 0:45:12] ▶

And so he starts this thing, Intellectron, which is basically labeled as a biomedical research company.

[0:45:14 - 0:45:21] ▶

And again, with Puharic, I just it's it's I have to stress like there is always these instances in his life.

[0:45:23 - 0:45:33] ▶

This one being the really the first, but it was sort of the roundtable to where like all of a sudden he just has this company and this and the and these employees and this fund, you know, all of a sudden it's just, you know, kind of expensive to have a big office in New York City.

[0:45:33 - 0:45:49] ▶

And all this stuff and all this state of the art at the time, electronic equipment.

[0:45:49 - 0:45:53] ▶

And it sounds like in classic intelligence world front sort of stuff.

[0:45:53 - 0:45:57] ▶

He just always had and it's always this company.

[0:46:00 - 0:46:03] ▶

And basically in this was early sixties now, 62, 63.

[0:46:03 - 0:46:07] ▶

This is when he starts the hearing experiments where basically he claims that deaf people would come into the office and they would do research on them.

[0:46:07 - 0:46:24] ▶

And basically they designed a device which would enable deaf people to to to hear basically by emitting a certain frequency that would somehow bypass like the normal way we hear and go directly to the hearing center in the brain.

[0:46:24 - 0:46:41] ▶

And it was this breakthrough medical discovery, which, you know, go figure goes completely quiet.

[0:46:41 - 0:46:50] ▶

And so that I think the connection, I mean, I don't want to just jump to conclusions, but I think what I've often thought with this JFK thing and why to Melanie his assistant seemed like such a big deal is that it may have had some tie in with a mind control, sort of like a Sirhan Sirhan situation with Lee Harvey Oz.

[0:47:28 - 0:47:54] ▶

This is, we're talking, and again, this is something I don't think a lot of people know.

[0:48:02 - 0:48:05] ▶

And I think people don't realize a lot of that MKUltra stuff happened much earlier, but they were doing this work in 62, 63 of like send, basically sending messages to, to people's heads, you know, and, and we have footage.

[0:48:06 - 0:48:24] ▶

The people from the Atomic Energy Commission write very clearly in letters we found, like we went, Annie Jacobson talks about it, I think in her book, like one of the guys is like, I don't believe you, you know, test me and just, and, and, and did the test on himself and it worked.

[0:48:26 - 0:48:41] ▶

And then it goes, it goes dark and Intellectron closes and all of a sudden it's onto the next sort of, you know, mysterious company.

[0:48:41 - 0:48:53] ▶

Is there any explicit connection between Lee Harvey Oswald and Intellectron or that sort of speculation on your part?

[0:48:59 - 0:49:06] ▶

And then this weird incident where they seem to make a big deal about telling him about the assassination at that exact time, that exact year, they're researching ways to, to be able to send messages to someone's mind to do something specific, Manchurian candidate, et cetera, et cetera.

[0:49:13 - 0:49:30] ▶

I think Mary Bancroft like started to talk about it and he like, you know, he kind of acted like he didn't know what was going on when like, you know, he w he would have reacted earnestly if, if, if, if he hadn't, he clearly did know what was going on.

[0:49:44 - 0:49:56] ▶

And obviously Dulles was probably, you know, among a very short list of people.

[0:49:56 - 0:50:01] ▶

And then to further kind of steel man, there may be being a, a there, there, we know that Jack Ruby was an MK, ultra patient.

[0:50:09 - 0:50:18] ▶

I mean, like 95%, you know, like you have letters between Jolly West and Sydney Gottlieb, who's definitely the kind of archivist.

[0:50:18 - 0:50:26] ▶

architect of MK ultra, you know, and, and Jolly West was, you know, UCLA psychiatry, but clearly very involved in operation midnight climax and maybe brainwashed Charles Manson.

[0:50:26 - 0:50:38] ▶

And he sees Jack Ruby who never remembers killing Lee Harvey Oswald in his jail cell alone.

[0:50:38 - 0:50:44] ▶

No cameras comes back, comes out and says, uh, Jack Ruby has had a psych psychiatric break.

[0:50:44 - 0:50:50] ▶

And then Jack Ruby, you know, who was fully lucid, but just didn't remember having shot Lee Harvey Oswald talks about Jews dying outside of his cell and just like literally cracks.

[0:50:50 - 0:51:00] ▶

But I think he's mostly known as somebody who, uh, did experiments with implanting, putting an implant in the head of a bull and basically being able to remote control a bull and basically say, go this stop, go left, go right.

[0:51:50 - 0:52:06] ▶

And he was able to do it.

[0:52:06 - 0:52:08] ▶

Uh, and Pujaric, we later found out was, was close friends as Pujaric says himself with Delgado.

[0:52:11 - 0:52:20] ▶

And it was nothing too sinister as mostly like, Hey, I'm going to go to this conference.

[0:52:24 - 0:52:29] ▶

I mean, there's some people I met during the process of this who were like, don't, don't even go there and don't talk about the connection you had with Delgado.

[0:52:33 - 0:52:42] ▶

You have a guy who's being able to pacify a bull and play the bull like a video game.

[0:52:47 - 0:52:53] ▶

And that clearly was the heir to MK ultra, which was mostly sodium pentothal LSD, that sort of thing is chemical based.

[0:52:53 - 0:53:00] ▶

And if, if, if, if in the early sixties, we had chips that could control animals and you had heirs to MK ultra, like MK often.

[0:53:02 - 0:53:10] ▶

Which were done. I believe at the science and engineering Institute, um, in the Northeast as well.

[0:53:11 - 0:53:15] ▶

And I think that was going on at Intellectron.

[0:53:45 - 0:53:50] ▶

And all of a sudden you get to the sixties.

[0:54:15 - 0:54:16] ▶

And all of a sudden the seventies boom picks back up.

[0:54:23 - 0:54:25] ▶

And it was just, it just so happened to be when he had this company in Electron.

[0:54:28 - 0:54:33] ▶

And the other thing too, not to cut you off is I I've, with all this stuff in this film, I've gone to like the ends of the earth to try to track down.

[0:54:40 - 0:54:49] ▶

And nothing, absolutely nothing.

[0:54:49 - 0:54:52] ▶

And in his archives at, uh, Berkeley, there was like a couple documents that had, you know, in Electron letterhead and it was like correspondence.

[0:55:15 - 0:55:25] ▶

And that was like the only thing I could find.

[0:55:25 - 0:55:28] ▶

And even in that it was nothing revealing.

[0:55:28 - 0:55:30] ▶

It was again, it was just like records and sort of like, you know, financial records.

[0:55:30 - 0:55:36] ▶

Well, it's, I mean, now I feel like it's one of these things that's slowly shifting, you know, and I think more and more people are going to start to recognize the fact that MK ultra had a role, not only in the JFK assassination, but in the RFK assassination, you mentioned Sirhan Sirhan.

[0:55:46 - 0:56:02] ▶

Just like over and over.

[0:56:08 - 0:56:10] ▶

Um, and you have RFK junior now is head of the FDA.

[0:56:20 - 0:56:23] ▶

And I think he recognizes that he was actually shot from the back and not from the front.

[0:56:30 - 0:56:36] ▶

And, um, so I, you know, I, I think these things are going to start to come out that, uh, MK ultra was far more pervasive than, than we ever realized.

[0:56:55 - 0:57:04] ▶

And there's even a book called, I don't know if you know about this book, the controllers by Martin Cannon.

[0:57:04 - 0:57:09] ▶

Often their work takes a toll and a lot of them track their health obsessively.

[0:57:34 - 0:57:39] ▶

Meanwhile, last time I went to a primary care doctor, they ran maybe like eight biomarkers and they told me I was fine and sent me home.

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[0:58:14 - 0:58:23] ▶

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[0:59:03 - 0:59:09] ▶

And people being tricked into saying, oh, you like this is your guardian angel or whatever.

[0:59:35 - 0:59:40] ▶

And there's a whole thing.

[0:59:40 - 0:59:41] ▶

And they were doing all that type of experimentation.

[1:00:02 - 1:00:04] ▶

And this basically enables like a certain frequency to be sent to somebody.

[1:00:24 - 1:00:29] ▶

And, you know, it's kind of like a situation where if you're exposed to this frequency, it's at a certain wavelength that only you can hear and anyone else around you can't hear.

[1:00:29 - 1:00:43] ▶

And this kind of ties into what he was doing later in the seventies, but they're doing an experiment on a woman using this.

[1:00:43 - 1:00:49] ▶

And it's very clear what's happening and it's very clear it's working.

[1:00:49 - 1:00:53] ▶

And you could, you could, you could send or implant thoughts to a person.

[1:00:56 - 1:01:01] ▶

And that's crazy.

[1:01:02 - 1:01:03] ▶

And so how exactly did it work?

[1:01:03 - 1:01:04] ▶

You played a tone and then you would.

[1:01:04 - 1:01:06] ▶

And you've probably heard of this as the tooth implant.

[1:01:13 - 1:01:17] ▶

And we had somebody out in the hall broadcasting.

[1:02:01 - 1:02:05] ▶

And he said, God damn it, I hear it.

[1:02:05 - 1:02:08] ▶

And that would basically be able to receive a radio signal.

[1:02:35 - 1:02:41] ▶

It would pick it up here and it would send it through the nerves of the face that would basically connect to whatever area in your brain you register, you know, sounds.

[1:02:41 - 1:02:51] ▶

And so you could be again in, you could clearly see them doing this.

[1:02:51 - 1:02:57] ▶

And this was very short, a short distance.

[1:02:57 - 1:03:00] ▶

And you can clearly see they're able to do it.

[1:03:02 - 1:03:05] ▶

And the second part was an offshoot of that where basically, from what I understand, you sort of just bypass the whole tooth thing.

[1:03:24 - 1:03:33] ▶

And it's a very specific radio frequency that I guess you can't tune into like on a normal frequency band or a radio.

[1:03:33 - 1:03:44] ▶

But it was this idea that again, you would bypass the tooth and the, and the, and the frequency would essentially just be sent directly to the head and be picked up in that same area that the tooth was essentially connecting to.

[1:04:00 - 1:04:13] ▶

I mean, bait as early as Beethoven, he was deaf and he used something called bone conduction.

[1:04:19 - 1:04:24] ▶

Where he would bite onto a conductive rod while he was playing piano that would bypass his ear canal and the vibrations would literally play in his brain.

[1:04:25 - 1:04:35] ▶

And so he would like de facto be able to hear his own playing without actually kind of, you know, hearing it through his ear canal.

[1:04:35 - 1:04:42] ▶

And she had gotten a tooth filling or whatever, and she's driving and she starts to hear the radio in her head because she still has some metal in her teeth.

[1:04:56 - 1:05:02] ▶

And we're worried because they want to put him in a mental hospital and we don't want that to happen.

[1:05:18 - 1:05:23] ▶

So they, they bring him in, they get to know him and he says, okay, I work at this metal factory where I guess it basically is a grinding metal pieces and this kind of thing.

[1:05:25 - 1:05:34] ▶

Puharich's theory was that this metal dust had somehow collected on his teeth and in essence acted like a radio antenna.

[1:05:36 - 1:05:49] ▶

And they put the mental patient in their Faraday cage, which blocks out all electronic signals.

[1:05:54 - 1:06:01] ▶

And the mental patient suddenly is no longer hearing voices, is like perfectly sane.

[1:06:01 - 1:06:10] ▶

And sure enough, soon as we locked the door, the sound ceased. Opened the door, the sound would come on.

[1:06:10 - 1:06:16] ▶

That's pretty remarkable of Puharich to think that all through and to test it in the laboratory.

[1:06:16 - 1:06:23] ▶

And that kicked off like all of this research where it said, okay, well, if that's possible, like what else is possible with that basic idea that that's, you know, real.

[1:06:23 - 1:06:35] ▶

Yeah. And if you can bypass the ear canal with vibration, whatever is processing the audio ultimately in the brain, we know that you can turn molecular mass into frequency.

[1:06:35 - 1:06:46] ▶

Yeah. Could you then use some sort of electromagnetic, you know, radio wave or some wave that connects directly to the brain and that kind of gets in a freaky territory because you end up in sort of psychic warfare, you know, that's ubiquitous or whatever in widespread.

[1:06:51 - 1:07:11] ▶

Like, it's kind of weird to think about, but I mean, if you're saying that was possible back then, it's just wild. And then you mentioned sign waves. I just interviewed a guy named Dan Sherman.

[1:07:11 - 1:07:22] ▶

Yeah. And you texted me when you saw the interview because you said it, you felt like it kind of comported with a lot of the stuff you had been studying around.

[1:07:22 - 1:07:30] ▶

In the early nineties around messages he's downloading, but it, maybe it does beget the question, you know, is the Sherman stuff genuinely, you know, extraterrestrial or were people beaming messages that were extraterrestrial to test the veracity of the messaging or whatever through him. And I don't know, you know, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't think he was lying. And I think the program is real.

[1:07:40 - 1:08:06] ▶

The Genesis of it was in 1947. We came in contact with an alien species and in 1960, they started a, a project. It was called project preserve destiny. And, um, it was designed to genetically manage fetuses, human fetuses, so that they would have the heightened ability to do this particular thing that I was going to school for.

[1:08:06 - 1:08:32] ▶

And he said, I'm going to play a tone and I want you to mentally hum that tone. And he said that you will eventually feel a connection. The line will change.

[1:08:32 - 1:08:44] ▶

And I went, oh, okay. Well, there's a mental disconnect there that that's not supposed to be happening. This is not, this is not possible.

[1:08:47 - 1:08:57] ▶

I'd have to imagine it was. And that's always the question, you know,

[1:09:04 - 1:09:08] ▶

You know, he was always talking about sine waves. And so I just, I can't imagine that that wasn't some sort of early interpretation of, of what, what he was talking about.

[1:09:43 - 1:09:55] ▶

And you have this machine that you like, where you like, you're matching tones and stuff. I mean, that sounds exactly like Sherman.

[1:09:55 - 1:10:01] ▶

Yeah. It's all tone. It's all tones. And then the thing with the machine is again, um, and like you said, sounding crazy, like for a long time making this film, you know, like I had to,

[1:10:01 - 1:10:13] ▶

really grapple with like that a lot because I knew what I was hearing and, and sort of not so much researching is a lot of stuff we got were like tapes of these experiments.

[1:10:13 - 1:10:25] ▶

He's doing an electron and, you know, you can just tell something's going on, something strange. And so you're right.

[1:10:34 - 1:10:40] ▶

You're right. I mean, I think like if that was happening in 60, 61, 62, I mean, I don't know. And this gets transitions into the Uri Geller stuff, which I believe is very much involved in that same sort of research.

[1:10:40 - 1:10:56] ▶

And the thing is too, with this device, he invented the TD 100, it was called, which was called transdermal 100.

[1:11:30 - 1:11:36] ▶

And Intellectron is still happening then. I mean, from what I understand, like it was still very much, you know, an operating company. So he's going to Israel to meet Uri Geller while he's still very much involved in the research of essentially sending messages to people.

[1:12:29 - 1:12:48] ▶

And he gets to Israel. He discovers Uri Geller. I mean, I think a lot of people know this story, but you know, Geller was, was allegedly this very, uh, amazing psychic guy who could bend, bend spoons with his mind and read people's minds and do all sorts of things like that. He could like, uh, hover his hand over a watch and the, and it would, uh, the hands would move and, and all these kinds of things. And so.

[1:12:48 - 1:13:14] ▶

He did bend a spoon for us when we did the interview and I don't know how he did it.

[1:13:23 - 1:13:28] ▶

And you.

[1:13:31 - 1:13:32] ▶

And he did do it, but, um, he, so Buharic, you know, again, the story goes, Buharic was kind of smitten with, with Geller and oh my God, this guy's, you know, an amazing psychic.

[1:13:44 - 1:13:54] ▶

But he, uh, he, uh, has this whole episode in Israel before he even brings him back to the United States, where he basically hypnotizes Geller and, you know, the nine come through.

[1:14:08 - 1:14:20] ▶

And all of a sudden, after however many years, you know, 53 from when Dr. Vinod did it to, to 71.

[1:14:21 - 1:14:29] ▶

And guess what happens?

[1:14:29 - 1:14:31] ▶

And so Buharic is, you know, shot up, apparently shocked.

[1:14:34 - 1:14:41] ▶

And, you know, I can't believe this is happening.

[1:14:41 - 1:14:43] ▶

You know, there's all these tape recordings we have of, of this, uh, going down and that kind of kickstarts again.

[1:14:43 - 1:14:50] ▶

And all of a sudden they're like back, you know, and he's channeling them, channeling them and he's communicating with them.

[1:14:55 - 1:15:03] ▶

And so one could assume that Uri Geller was a, you know, experiment in that way when the nine just so happened to reappear all those years later.

[1:15:20 - 1:15:31] ▶

And it's also strange because I think a lot of people know, like Geller has claimed his involvement with Mossad and his Israeli intelligence and all these things.

[1:15:31 - 1:15:41] ▶

And so I had always just stuck to me like, okay, is this a joke?

[1:15:54 - 1:15:55] ▶

and like basically got nothing but the only thing we were able to get was this big chunk of fbi

[1:16:11 - 1:16:16] ▶

he's going there to see geller so that that there's that and then um multiple people who knew him

[1:16:29 - 1:16:37] ▶

again i there's i don't have a document or something that that that proves this um and then puhart also

[1:16:46 - 1:16:54] ▶

kind of helped him with bookkeeping and stuff and she was like his closest confidant and he would

[1:17:02 - 1:17:08] ▶

which isn't you know is an is an army base and i read that and you know again what what do you make

[1:17:29 - 1:17:39] ▶

he wrote that and then in this tape um he he kind of jokingly says oh i'm a i'm a i'm a double agent

[1:17:45 - 1:17:52] ▶

uh for for the israelis and and he also was always there you know that's the other thing like yes he

[1:17:52 - 1:17:59] ▶

went to to to investigate geller but you know he was even through the 80s like well after him and

[1:17:59 - 1:18:06] ▶

re can should we uh give this information to yariv always referring to him and other people

[1:18:28 - 1:18:35] ▶

but uh it's strange and i i don't know i mean again that's something like after all this time

[1:18:45 - 1:18:52] ▶

think when when he goes to israel initially to see geller in 1971 and he geller's kind of channeling

[1:18:57 - 1:19:07] ▶

know there was this parapsychology foundation and they wanted me to go so they scraped some money

[1:19:49 - 1:19:55] ▶

together and i they i was able to get a plane ticket and i went to i went to tel aviv and that's

[1:19:55 - 1:20:00] ▶

how i got there right and then geller himself said oh yeah no he he was sent by the cia like directly

[1:20:00 - 1:20:07] ▶

he he was consulting for cia that's why he came and then someone else uh close to bar said oh yeah like

[1:20:07 - 1:20:15] ▶

buharach when he he kind of tells the story to an audience you know and he says oh yeah they just you

[1:20:20 - 1:20:25] ▶

come through and i do think again like i mentioned earlier kind of having to accept some of these

[1:20:50 - 1:20:58] ▶

this and it was it was it was that it was very leading questions and are you sure it's not the nine

[1:21:27 - 1:21:32] ▶

and oh actually yeah you're right it is and that kind of thing but what's so confusing is there's

[1:21:32 - 1:21:38] ▶

you know not leading at all and the nine would still come through yeah so that's interesting yeah

[1:21:43 - 1:21:49] ▶

and that always goes back to the crux of who harich of like okay what what was he yes he believed in

[1:21:49 - 1:21:55] ▶

and mk ultra and all these things so it's like what believer master manipulator i mean i i usually

[1:22:01 - 1:22:08] ▶

like a yes and like an improv or whatever it's it's usually not like one neat solution kind of explains

[1:22:14 - 1:22:20] ▶

think of the archimedes lever of reality itself and its mind control right like that would explain like

[1:22:25 - 1:22:31] ▶

aliens reverse engineer like so many things um but then you you get into like the facts and the

[1:22:31 - 1:22:38] ▶

facts are just weirder than you think often and it's it's like well i actually think there might be

[1:22:38 - 1:22:43] ▶

these other beings that come in and certain cases he's not asking leading questions yeah but it's uh

[1:22:43 - 1:22:49] ▶

particularly powerful as far as implanting thoughts is that right yeah there's uh and again this was

[1:22:57 - 1:23:03] ▶

somebody's head uh and he was very concerned that the soviets had similar capabilities yeah i mean there's you know project

[1:23:49 - 1:23:59] ▶

proven proven at that time i mean this is like pre havana syndrome stuff and so coincidentally you know

[1:24:15 - 1:24:22] ▶

and i think and again i could be totally wrong but i think that there was just this

[1:24:39 - 1:24:45] ▶

you know we need to experiment on a real you know human being with some of this stuff and again it goes

[1:24:46 - 1:24:54] ▶

know how someone in you know the real world will react and i think geller you know was was part of

[1:25:07 - 1:25:13] ▶

sudden he wakes up and he's in austin new york which is you know however 50 miles or whatever

[1:25:37 - 1:25:44] ▶

and and he crashes through the the screen porch there's footage super eight movie footage of of

[1:25:45 - 1:25:52] ▶

buhar filming the screen porch after this allegedly happened it's all smashed through right and geller of

[1:25:52 - 1:25:58] ▶

allegedly winds up in austin and he teleported and from new york city and puharic claims or told

[1:25:58 - 1:26:07] ▶

geller oh yeah this happened and the nine did this basically you since you were questioning their

[1:26:08 - 1:26:15] ▶

ability and their power they said well we're going to do something that will make you you know never

[1:26:15 - 1:26:19] ▶

question us again and they did this teleportation right and the weird thing is again like the length

[1:26:19 - 1:26:27] ▶

and and be like hey look i actually filmed when you right after you flew into the window and here it is

[1:26:43 - 1:26:49] ▶

happened and geller believed it i mean he he talks about it he wrote about it i think later in his life

[1:27:03 - 1:27:10] ▶

he he started to question everything and he even came out with a statement on a radio show in like 2019

[1:27:10 - 1:27:17] ▶

saying that buharic had experimented on him with with mushrooms and had experimented extensively with

[1:27:17 - 1:27:25] ▶

him uh uh with with hypnosis but again like that story is crazy and he and i think it's like okay like

[1:27:25 - 1:27:34] ▶

if you can get somebody to believe that they had been teleported and smacked i mean what else could

[1:27:34 - 1:27:39] ▶

you get someone to believe and i just think it was all part of that type of experimentation and

[1:27:39 - 1:27:44] ▶

himself i was involved in a program and my boss was the guy who did all research with hypnosis and mind

[1:27:50 - 1:27:59] ▶

manipulation so you know he he was doing it and i think a lot of the geller stuff was just like okay

[1:27:59 - 1:28:07] ▶

story too that geller tells around him meeting warner von braun and warner von braun taking him to a safe

[1:28:14 - 1:28:21] ▶

or revealed or facts to him and i think he showed him material and i think he felt like he had a

[1:28:55 - 1:29:00] ▶

heavy says or you touch this tell me what you feel now i put my hand on it and i say verna this is

[1:29:12 - 1:29:19] ▶

like he he knew that it was not from here or something like he showed it to him and he goes it's not from

[1:29:26 - 1:29:31] ▶

here and he goes how did you know so you know something it's so interesting the other thing too

[1:29:31 - 1:29:35] ▶

and this goes back to the the controllers um book a lot of the stories and again keep in mind this is

[1:29:35 - 1:29:43] ▶

that and he another story like this teleportation one they're in um the sinai desert they're driving

[1:29:51 - 1:30:00] ▶

around in uh in a jeep and they're they see a a ufo and geller all of a sudden i mean puhart's book on

[1:30:00 - 1:30:11] ▶

geller is fun to read you know in and of itself is because it's like it's just like a cool crazy sci-fi

[1:30:11 - 1:30:17] ▶

ufo lands geller goes into like a trance boards the the ufo comes back with like a pen and said or

[1:30:23 - 1:30:32] ▶

something like a pen and basically said you know oh these these beings told me to keep this because

[1:30:32 - 1:30:37] ▶

oh he's in a trance before this happens you know apparently and then it's that same idea of like

[1:30:44 - 1:30:50] ▶

he believed it and puhart kind of substantiated oh yeah you know we saw it land and we saw you walk on

[1:30:50 - 1:30:57] ▶

it and what but then it always goes to that question like why again you could just say oh well they

[1:30:57 - 1:31:03] ▶

et framework and do these kind of mind manipulation experiments around that yeah and see you know

[1:31:30 - 1:31:40] ▶

see what what people can believe and uh you also get into weird territory where it's like

[1:31:40 - 1:31:45] ▶

named mario woods um who is uh at ellsworth air force base in 1977 in south dakota and he was a missile

[1:32:13 - 1:32:21] ▶

security officer and he's just like a really upright great guy and he uh thought you know like this

[1:32:21 - 1:32:29] ▶

sort of like b2 bomber was like kind of winking at him in the distance he and his um uh you know um

[1:32:29 - 1:32:36] ▶

teammate or whatever his colleague michael johnson go in this little jeep and they follow it uh they

[1:32:36 - 1:32:42] ▶

get there and it's this like huge like plasma orb that's glowing it's red hot and it uh it's the size

[1:32:42 - 1:32:50] ▶

of a walmart is the the line he always says it's sort of this crazy iconic line you know and um and uh

[1:32:50 - 1:32:57] ▶

he ends up nine being transported nine miles um away from the base uh like behind a dam and it's

[1:32:57 - 1:33:05] ▶

like then it's the next morning he has no idea what happened and all he i think had remembered was

[1:33:05 - 1:33:11] ▶

beings walking toward him saying do not fear do not fear and then he gets a hypnotic regression and he

[1:33:11 - 1:33:17] ▶

realizes that you know possibly he boarded a craft and what's really interesting is he says that after when

[1:33:17 - 1:33:24] ▶

it's really sort of crazy um yeah that is the tooth thing is really strange and there's a lot online

[1:33:36 - 1:33:45] ▶

kind of split up get geller wants to to move on and again way later in this 2019 interview he he kind

[1:34:02 - 1:34:09] ▶

of opens up and said yeah i was kind of like afraid you know and he he really opens up like i didn't know

[1:34:09 - 1:34:16] ▶

what was kind of going on and and i was suspicious and i just wanted to get away basically from this guy

[1:34:16 - 1:34:22] ▶

and so he you know but he was famous at that time anyways so he leaves buharic is you know trying to

[1:34:22 - 1:34:29] ▶

he was part of a um a psychic class that she she taught and again i've heard from a lot of people

[1:34:49 - 1:34:56] ▶

that this woman phyllis was like a legit psychic you know knowing things about people and so forth

[1:34:56 - 1:35:01] ▶

sure enough he puts him he he hypnotizes him and he is communicating with not the nine but it was some other

[1:35:08 - 1:35:17] ▶

you know etc but lo and behold he wakes up one day and realizes he has a uh metal filling that he never

[1:35:25 - 1:35:33] ▶

had and he goes to the dentist and says you know what what's going on here i i didn't get this done and

[1:35:33 - 1:35:44] ▶

and oh complete side note the guy that buharic uh ran into electron with was a dentist what that he

[1:35:50 - 1:35:58] ▶

met in the army so this guy discovers a a um a filling he never had he completely freaks out and and

[1:35:58 - 1:36:07] ▶

leaves the the group that is buharic phyllis and and it's sad and again this always comes back to

[1:36:08 - 1:36:15] ▶

happened to but that's like a real story and the guide you know and he brought it up to buharic and

[1:36:26 - 1:36:33] ▶

beings your talk they wanted this to happen and they they did this somehow and and so it's very

[1:36:43 - 1:36:49] ▶

early 70s so there might be something going on with this this tooth thing and you know again i think

[1:36:56 - 1:37:02] ▶

the film does a good job of this or i hope it does is you know i don't believe or and especially don't

[1:37:02 - 1:37:10] ▶

want to believe that mk ultra is responsible for everything and all of this stuff because there's a

[1:37:10 - 1:37:16] ▶

encounters for instance um in the late 80s uh buharic lived in north carolina and he uh there's a story

[1:37:23 - 1:37:31] ▶

that a bunch of his family was visiting a bunch of his cousins and people who you know are very

[1:37:31 - 1:37:37] ▶

itself over the house and so we have the video buharic's son andy who's an awesome guy he he did this kind of

[1:37:52 - 1:38:00] ▶

like funny video where he interviewed like all the people who were there at this family gathering and

[1:38:00 - 1:38:06] ▶

say you know what do you think is going to happen do you think it's going to show up and everyone said

[1:38:06 - 1:38:10] ▶

oh yes or no but that night um multiple people saw this huge ufo and andy tells the story and he

[1:38:10 - 1:38:18] ▶

like he gets emotional telling it and he's again a totally sane guy you know of course his dad was

[1:38:18 - 1:38:26] ▶

wasn't out because it was much later in the night and again pre-iphone of course you know you got to

[1:38:32 - 1:38:38] ▶

run in and grab this bulky vhs camcorder but apparently like him that bulharic's son and two or

[1:38:38 - 1:38:45] ▶

three of the cousins all saw this huge thing is silently hovered over so while and that and and

[1:38:45 - 1:38:51] ▶

stuff and and i believe in and in things my dad did and he just had a very emotional reaction uh to

[1:38:57 - 1:39:05] ▶

even his cousin who didn't want to be interviewed or everybody did talk to him and he was like yeah

[1:39:30 - 1:39:35] ▶

a perceptual prism or container and i'm sure with his hypnotic techniques and with mk ultra and with

[1:39:41 - 1:39:48] ▶

implants and all these things you can break that container and then probably intentionally shade

[1:39:48 - 1:39:55] ▶

prism that involves other entities between man and god or you know whatever your metaphysical beliefs

[1:40:01 - 1:40:07] ▶

i'm i feel like shocked like listening to all of these facts and i'm just thinking as you're talking

[1:40:19 - 1:40:24] ▶

about puharj's son and this ufo showing up um what was night because i think of 1952 as the you know dc fly

[1:40:24 - 1:40:32] ▶

covering it people seeing things you know i actually recently met a witness from 1952 and and and he was

[1:40:42 - 1:40:50] ▶

pretty amazing and he remembers it and stuff he's one of the probably last living witnesses wow um amazing

[1:40:50 - 1:40:55] ▶

in any sort of you know selection bias here but july 1952 was when it was the thing showed up and so

[1:41:17 - 1:41:24] ▶

it could have been and i told you like he he wrote in his journals about these orbs and the one of the

[1:41:32 - 1:41:37] ▶

obviously it does have everything to do and there's there's even a group called the borderland society

[1:41:47 - 1:41:53] ▶

kind of nuts and bolts ufo researcher who i think did some software stuff for spacex his name is richard

[1:42:09 - 1:42:15] ▶

geldreich and he uh has uncovered like a couple of ufo either crashes or appearances where the borderland

[1:42:15 - 1:42:22] ▶

so and then you have you know this 1933 magenta crash which it seems like is getting increasingly

[1:42:30 - 1:42:36] ▶

corroborated david grush harold malmgren both talk about it and hugh angleton and james jesus angleton

[1:42:36 - 1:42:45] ▶

were there and you know maybe there's some occult stuff going on there yeah with the knights of malta

[1:42:45 - 1:42:50] ▶

right you know who knows but you know puhart was a master mason he was yeah interesting and um he

[1:42:50 - 1:42:57] ▶

these you know what he would call kind of dark occult groups and and societies and people trying to like

[1:43:05 - 1:43:13] ▶

get him to join and he he didn't want anything to do with it and that kind of thing well werner von

[1:43:13 - 1:43:19] ▶

braun was also i believe a freemason and he had gone through all these weird neo-pagan rituals as part

[1:43:19 - 1:43:25] ▶

of the german space program he was also close with walt disney and i think they're they made a little

[1:43:25 - 1:43:31] ▶

movie together and there's some free masonic symbolism there there's launch pad 33 in real

[1:43:31 - 1:43:35] ▶

life that he sort of created and then uh my buddy danny jones just did an interview with one of the

[1:43:35 - 1:43:42] ▶

last living apollo astronauts charlie duke and the number one moon landing hoaxer person bart cybral

[1:43:42 - 1:43:47] ▶

and danny on the phone with me is like dude i'm not sure that the early astronauts weren't mk ultra

[1:43:47 - 1:43:53] ▶

and it's weird you know and it's like you have you know a picture of jolly west on the set of 2001

[1:43:54 - 1:44:01] ▶

space odyssey you have you know there is yeah yeah yeah i think i did hear about that yeah yeah and so

[1:44:02 - 1:44:10] ▶

that's insane it is insane it is insane and and then you have these you know it's like the neil

[1:44:10 - 1:44:16] ▶

after he comes back from the moon and so you have to wonder if there's some sort of like weird

[1:44:24 - 1:44:29] ▶

my you know and if i didn't know puharj and you weren't of on braun you have one of the mk ultra

[1:44:30 - 1:44:36] ▶

articles we found but they were doing like telepathy uh experiments with with astronauts and and puharj

[1:44:55 - 1:45:02] ▶

know if if they went to to to send stuff there and he says yeah you know somewhere in the nasa

[1:45:36 - 1:45:44] ▶

moon and and he and he had the contracts of nasa like we don't we have one that doesn't say that but

[1:45:49 - 1:45:56] ▶

late 50s and yeah he went to austin like many times and in his book he writes about um going there

[1:46:41 - 1:46:48] ▶

were so and to really positively identify them but they were metallic looking and saucer in shape so he

[1:47:31 - 1:47:39] ▶

was definitely like interested in this stuff and and um yeah so he went up there everyone went up

[1:47:39 - 1:47:46] ▶

that's like something i read about and you know i thought oh that's interesting but in puhart's archive

[1:47:52 - 1:47:58] ▶

back then these prominent people at the time we're now in mid-70s would come there spend time there and

[1:48:15 - 1:48:22] ▶

they would do these sessions and gene roddenberry went up a lot and he makes mention on this one tape

[1:48:22 - 1:48:28] ▶

tape where it was um roddenberry puharic and phyllis schlemer was the channel the channeler and you

[1:48:40 - 1:48:47] ▶

channeling the nine and roddenberry is there and it's like an hour or two hours of him asking questions

[1:48:54 - 1:49:00] ▶

about and that becomes everything the plot of star trek or well i wouldn't say the plot as star trek

[1:49:00 - 1:49:06] ▶

these sessions and um that you know of course nine and then there's a character in deep space nine who's

[1:49:13 - 1:49:21] ▶

and they actually wrote uh i have it and um i don't know what will ever come of it it's a it's a long

[1:49:28 - 1:49:35] ▶

story but gene roddenberry wrote a script called the nine and it's all about his he changed the names

[1:49:35 - 1:49:42] ▶

and locations and the whole premise is his experience of working with puharic and phyllis channeling the

[1:49:42 - 1:49:49] ▶

nine and we have an original copy of it and it's like amazing and from what we understand like

[1:49:49 - 1:49:56] ▶

roddenberry at the time was going through a lot with like i guess he was like drinking a lot and i don't

[1:49:57 - 1:50:04] ▶

apart or whatever and and it never happened but uh he was moved enough to write a whole you know 130

[1:50:10 - 1:50:19] ▶

page script about about his experience and it's called the nine so trippy yeah and you have so we

[1:50:19 - 1:50:27] ▶

the uh founder of their space program and their their equivalent of space force and was i think head

[1:50:55 - 1:51:01] ▶

of it for decades yeah and he just writes this autobiography where he talks about uh the galactic

[1:51:01 - 1:51:07] ▶

federation yeah and so do you think there's something like more real going on that in in

[1:51:07 - 1:51:14] ▶

the other weird connection to um israel puhart and everything was uh he was close with uh itzak bentoff

[1:51:30 - 1:51:37] ▶

of like the israeli puhart he he kind of looks like him and you know they have the same vibe going on but

[1:51:43 - 1:51:49] ▶

um well they definitely knew each other because there's photographs of geller puhart and bentoff

[1:52:04 - 1:52:10] ▶

intelligence i mean that's that's a fact and they and puhart was again like i said going to israel a

[1:52:19 - 1:52:25] ▶

lot at that time and he was always tape recording their conversations like him and bentoff would sit

[1:52:25 - 1:52:31] ▶

around like you and i are right now and they would record all their conversations which you know is

[1:52:31 - 1:52:37] ▶

not weird necessarily but also you know why would you do that and then save the cassette tapes decades

[1:52:38 - 1:52:44] ▶

later so you know there's a lot of clues like that that goes back to that israeli connection and and

[1:52:44 - 1:52:51] ▶

the the fire department and bentoff uh around that time was also being monitored puhart was

[1:53:12 - 1:53:21] ▶

being monitored and there's this big like this circle of kind of his friends and colleagues were

[1:53:21 - 1:53:25] ▶

all claiming to be to be monitored be followed harassed and so forth um and there was some story

[1:53:25 - 1:53:36] ▶

mean and bentoff died in a plane crash yeah that's right yeah sort of super mysteriously he was uh

[1:53:47 - 1:53:53] ▶

friends with a lot of the stanford research institute and early psychic you know research pioneers yeah

[1:53:53 - 1:53:59] ▶

and claimed to have this kind of theory of everything he writes a book called stalking the wild pendulum

[1:53:59 - 1:54:05] ▶

and uh fascinating guy yeah they were close like i said there's a couple tapes of them just like

[1:54:13 - 1:54:18] ▶

literally talking and they would just record it and they would talk about all sorts of things mostly

[1:54:18 - 1:54:24] ▶

you know their their uh shared interest and in consciousness and stuff but you know then there's

[1:54:24 - 1:54:29] ▶

this other theory that buharic could have not been a double agent and and and simply just a spy

[1:54:29 - 1:54:34] ▶

and going to kind of pick off information or hey we're we're buddies we're into the same stuff we should

[1:54:35 - 1:54:42] ▶

tape record our conversation like he was cia and bent down was massad or something yeah yeah but all i know

[1:54:42 - 1:54:48] ▶

is that stuff exists and you can put it together how how you want but you know i've told a lot of people

[1:54:48 - 1:54:56] ▶

and again it's not because i sort of fear for you know anything but we we really done maybe it's

[1:54:56 - 1:55:03] ▶

document or anything that really nailed and i think that's what's interesting about the the

[1:55:10 - 1:55:14] ▶

film and the story in general is like you still question there's still research to be done into this

[1:55:14 - 1:55:21] ▶

cutting to you know the deeper architectures of reality yeah and uh i often think you should be

[1:55:40 - 1:55:46] ▶

you know and in this case it's clearly this kind of murky subject but that i mean that makes it that

[1:55:52 - 1:55:58] ▶

makes it so fascinating right it makes you just want to go go deeper and uh yeah um i think that the

[1:55:58 - 1:56:04] ▶

it uh i don't know maybe it's been taken down but it was this radio interview from 2019 and he he was

[1:56:19 - 1:56:26] ▶

very open about you know i was i was scared um and he always uses the term like buharj made me believe

[1:56:26 - 1:56:33] ▶

this he made you know and then he and he does credit bar says look you know i i i love the guy he

[1:56:33 - 1:56:39] ▶

yeah whatever you know i know what's going to happen and he'll like predict the wild things happening and

[1:57:30 - 1:57:35] ▶

and then he talks a lot about doing that back then um i have a friend who worked at the princeton

[1:57:53 - 1:57:59] ▶

parapsychology lab and whenever i try to throw the kitchen sink of skepticism around like he's just a

[1:57:59 - 1:58:05] ▶

stage magician and he's you know i don't i don't know how legit he is he often said you know and i think

[1:58:05 - 1:58:11] ▶

they even have like a uh some papers where they studied him at princeton and yeah i think it's

[1:58:11 - 1:58:16] ▶

often again like these people have something that's a little anomalous going on and they play it up you

[1:58:16 - 1:58:23] ▶

out there yeah who have something and again it's just like can you turn it on every time can you

[1:58:35 - 1:58:40] ▶

um through all these people i've talked to and stuff who were like yeah he he had something you know

[1:58:57 - 1:59:02] ▶

i think he liked the idea of the showmanship and but yeah he definitely had something going on

[1:59:02 - 1:59:08] ▶

are uh well there's a lot of them and we only were able to track down and interview um one two three

[1:59:16 - 1:59:25] ▶

and the uk and in and in china which are just the the stories that we were able to kind of look into

[1:59:45 - 1:59:52] ▶

but these kids would see um geller on tv and all of a sudden like that would uh cause them to just

[1:59:52 - 2:00:01] ▶

or they would you know go into the room and the the the drawers but oh you know poltergeist stuff right

[2:00:07 - 2:00:14] ▶

and there's a ton of newspaper articles at this time which again like okay it could have all been a hoax

[2:00:14 - 2:00:22] ▶

you know touched the the the refrigerator and it short-circuited you know all sorts of stuff

[2:00:35 - 2:00:40] ▶

and apparently it was because they saw him on tv and and something happened something clicked and they

[2:00:40 - 2:00:48] ▶

psychic yeah powers yeah so that's apparently what was happening and so pooharach of course you know

[2:00:53 - 2:01:00] ▶

learns this and he's very intrigued so he starts to you know visit some of these cases of kids who

[2:01:00 - 2:01:09] ▶

were doing this and um eventually i guess is so uh eventually he's so convinced that that this is real

[2:01:09 - 2:01:19] ▶

and that these kids actually have this sort of like sudden emergence of ability that he um brings them

[2:01:19 - 2:01:26] ▶

kids almost like an x-men kind of thing which is partially true but mostly like he would lecture and

[2:01:32 - 2:01:38] ▶

in you know all over the the country in canada and places and and people and and we say kids we're

[2:01:39 - 2:01:45] ▶

maybe 18 youngest but they would see him at a at a lecture and they would they would approach him and

[2:01:58 - 2:02:06] ▶

say hey you know we gotta talk like i have i have these abilities and and you are obviously the guy

[2:02:06 - 2:02:13] ▶

who knows about this and and i need your help basically like they would kind of go to him

[2:02:13 - 2:02:18] ▶

so at that point he thought okay there's enough there's enough stories and enough of these kids

[2:02:19 - 2:02:24] ▶

coming to me that like i should start a research program and so that's when he sort of collects

[2:02:24 - 2:02:30] ▶

to to awsening where he's you know living and and starts this sort of camp where basically they are just doing

[2:02:44 - 2:02:54] ▶

psychic uh research uh research on these kids and i think again not unlike the earlier

[2:02:54 - 2:03:03] ▶

nature of kids showing up at the house of a you know known intelligence uh connected scientists etc and

[2:03:11 - 2:03:21] ▶

so forth but um basically he collected them and um just started this camp where they did you know kind

[2:03:21 - 2:03:29] ▶

of went through the different abilities tested them and and that all led to getting back to the nine

[2:03:29 - 2:03:37] ▶

and so buhar said okay kind of like grouped them okay all the all the kids who've had an experience here

[2:03:45 - 2:03:50] ▶

you know not and so all the kids that had an experience he would hypnotize them and allegedly the nine would

[2:03:50 - 2:03:56] ▶

come through even through these kids who most of which never knew about about the nine and and most of which were

[2:03:56 - 2:04:05] ▶

about it you know they didn't want you know fame or they they were just like i'm actually scared and i

[2:04:11 - 2:04:18] ▶

at this time and this is um we're talking 74 when this started 73 74 and keep in mind this is right

[2:05:04 - 2:05:14] ▶

around the time the sri remote viewing stuff starts yeah and keep in mind how put off tells us that he went

[2:05:14 - 2:05:23] ▶

to puharic's house in ossining heard all about the nine and that puharic was apparently communicating

[2:05:23 - 2:05:30] ▶

with this thing called the nine wild and then didn't really say much has hal put off never talked about

[2:05:30 - 2:05:35] ▶

it but he basically it was like puharic was more connected than anyone anyone ever knew and really

[2:05:55 - 2:06:01] ▶

he sort of alludes to that but he does say yeah we went up to his house there's footage of him and

[2:06:01 - 2:06:05] ▶

targ at ossining sitting on the front steps so my theory is that and people have talked about this

[2:06:06 - 2:06:13] ▶

and it's out there but i think that there was this sort of and and we know for a fact that puharic was

[2:06:13 - 2:06:19] ▶

geller and that was it he disappeared not true there's a uh a pay stub in puharic's archives that

[2:06:26 - 2:06:33] ▶

there and was just like you know have fun basically but i think that puharic's house which was now called

[2:06:55 - 2:07:02] ▶

lab nine which again like intellektron and a couple others he had which are no use getting into but he

[2:07:02 - 2:07:09] ▶

he had lab nine and i think that lab nine was doing sri research you know on on children because essentially

[2:07:15 - 2:07:27] ▶

uh what time is this uh such and such general going to be at this place uh when should we go here and

[2:07:36 - 2:07:44] ▶

it's either like a pendulum or whatever it is a countdown and i think the nine and and something

[2:07:59 - 2:08:09] ▶

year old and then do an experiment with them and i think what was happening was like if you go to a

[2:08:38 - 2:08:45] ▶

20 year old and say hey you know especially at the time with erie geller being famous you know

[2:08:45 - 2:08:50] ▶

whatever star wars this and that and you say hey you know do you want to be a part of an experiment

[2:08:51 - 2:08:57] ▶

where you can communicate with these you know these beings and you know i can put you in it's safe and

[2:08:57 - 2:09:03] ▶

i can put you in this this hypnotic state and you'll communicate with them like obviously

[2:09:03 - 2:09:08] ▶

approach it that way so that's my theory is that that was sort of his way and one of the space kids

[2:09:20 - 2:09:27] ▶

like this sandbox for us to to play in or something and again it was off it wasn't in the interview

[2:09:42 - 2:09:49] ▶

it was like one of those many phone calls we had and i always stuck with me so i think that at that

[2:09:49 - 2:09:54] ▶

connection to sri via some sort of pay stub going directly to lab nine and you've got all these young

[2:10:01 - 2:10:07] ▶

is like remote viewing is used for the us from 72 to 95 and probably now yeah to like actually add to

[2:10:16 - 2:10:24] ▶

communicating through these space kids or do you think the nine was being implanted and they were testing

[2:10:38 - 2:10:46] ▶

their ability to sort of manipulate thoughts and that was through the nine or whatever and they had some

[2:10:46 - 2:10:52] ▶

ladder i mean that's that's the best way i can answer that god that's crazy that's uh and that

[2:10:59 - 2:11:06] ▶

would go back it's very deflating i'm sure for a lot of the ufo well it is and again like i don't want

[2:11:06 - 2:11:12] ▶

trying to be serious and piece together the life of this guy that spans decades like and and that's what

[2:11:19 - 2:11:25] ▶

the nine and whatever it's some protocol and it sounds like a hypnotic technique yeah but then some

[2:11:39 - 2:11:44] ▶

seem super open-ended and they just seem to connect with the nine how do you sort of make sense of that

[2:11:44 - 2:11:49] ▶

well i don't know and that goes back to the kind of you know i think uh jeffrey mishlove brings this

[2:11:49 - 2:11:58] ▶

they're tricking you and sometimes it's real sometimes it isn't i think there was you know with

[2:12:06 - 2:12:11] ▶

research that he passionately believes in and he's trying to come to some sort of you know reality of

[2:12:19 - 2:12:27] ▶

of the et phenomena or was it just all mk ultra you know and again i don't think it was all mk ultra

[2:12:27 - 2:12:35] ▶

again in some of these um sessions and and this is strange is is that on some of the sessions you

[2:12:41 - 2:12:50] ▶

know he'll be like okay here we are with this space kid and in there and their mom is here

[2:12:50 - 2:12:55] ▶

and she's you know this is like the tape recording we're hearing and and on those sessions it's like

[2:12:56 - 2:13:02] ▶

okay see you set in on a session so now you know what it's like and then when those people aren't

[2:13:33 - 2:13:39] ▶

again i think buharic like and and this is a big part of the film and a big part of my philosophy

[2:13:59 - 2:14:07] ▶

about him and his story is like i think he believed i know he believed in in a lot of paranormal stuff

[2:14:07 - 2:14:16] ▶

but i think he got sort of under the thumb of the uh you know intelligence world early on and i just don't

[2:14:16 - 2:14:26] ▶

think that he could kind of get away from that and i think you know you often hear it's like the mafia

[2:14:26 - 2:14:33] ▶

like you don't just leave and when you're when you're that involved as he was you know just say hey

[2:14:33 - 2:14:40] ▶

i'm i'm i'm good you know and i so i think that there was a lot of pressure on him to do some of this

[2:14:40 - 2:14:48] ▶

negative stuff that he may have otherwise not wanted to do and i think that's like a big part of the film

[2:14:48 - 2:14:54] ▶

and what i wanted to kind of get across with it is there's so much negative conspiracy stuff about

[2:14:54 - 2:15:01] ▶

really good it's um it came out in the 90s and it was the first book that really talked about a lot

[2:15:07 - 2:15:14] ▶

the too thin plant and then this is the first book that really exposed basically saying everything he

[2:15:19 - 2:15:25] ▶

you know it's not true and i think that i hope to get that across in the film and i think we do because

[2:15:32 - 2:15:38] ▶

do it you know yeah and whatever this kind of amorphous blob that is the ufo legacy program that

[2:15:46 - 2:15:53] ▶

u.s you know uh during kind of cold war secrecy era already knew and uh and and they would recruit

[2:16:17 - 2:16:24] ▶

these people and then they would probably be forced to you know work on things in contexts that they

[2:16:24 - 2:16:29] ▶

weren't particularly happy about and didn't feel idealistic about and i'm sure that that's the case

[2:16:29 - 2:16:35] ▶

with them yeah and and they were great when i showed them the sort of final product which really

[2:16:49 - 2:16:55] ▶

gets into this stuff and they were like you did a good job because you didn't shy away from from that

[2:16:55 - 2:17:02] ▶

and i think you know you illustrated it well but you know they were even like wow there's so much in

[2:17:02 - 2:17:07] ▶

know the nine again like i just keep thinking i think about it a lot and i again like the the answer just

[2:17:19 - 2:17:27] ▶

is i don't know but what i've heard and what i've had access to that came directly from his personal

[2:17:27 - 2:17:36] ▶

that in and of itself seems a little messed up as does yeah you know slipping somebody mushrooms or

[2:17:46 - 2:17:52] ▶

you know telling them they've been abducted by aliens and taken aboard a ship when they haven't or

[2:17:53 - 2:17:57] ▶

quote unquote teleporting them and throwing them through a window and you know like these things

[2:17:57 - 2:18:02] ▶

aren't cool you know uh no and again like i think if you watch if anyone watches footage of buharach electric

[2:18:02 - 2:18:09] ▶

he's the most jovial funny night you know like he's not this like monster person and that's why i quite

[2:18:09 - 2:18:17] ▶

frankly think makes him like interesting and an interesting subject for a film because like he's complicated

[2:18:17 - 2:18:22] ▶

and he he's he's again i think being sucked into these things that he would otherwise not

[2:18:22 - 2:18:29] ▶

want to do any and not to ruin the end of the film but he basically like admits that that he basically

[2:18:30 - 2:18:35] ▶

milgram's shock experiments you know it's uh and then you combine that with the you know the the power

[2:18:55 - 2:19:02] ▶

of the cia at the time i'm sure you could get coerced into doing all sorts of things and does that fully

[2:19:02 - 2:19:08] ▶

walked into a position like that and there's just no question the level of um you know how how deeply

[2:19:22 - 2:19:30] ▶

no way to kind of beat around that bush i think again i've just i've read so much online and there's a

[2:19:34 - 2:19:39] ▶

interesting is that um and you see in the film like getting back to this idea of the nine being this

[2:20:04 - 2:20:11] ▶

you know middle east war right going on and puharic and specifically phyllis schlemer he was still

[2:20:21 - 2:20:31] ▶

working with her then but and and and all the space kids you know they weren't specifically going on

[2:20:31 - 2:20:38] ▶

these trips but they would literally have a session right with the nine and they would do group sessions

[2:20:38 - 2:20:46] ▶

where it would be like you know two people at puharic and two other people him and three other people

[2:20:46 - 2:20:51] ▶

him and six other people and that would apparently like bring the message through more strongly and

[2:20:51 - 2:20:58] ▶

and so forth but um in that time they're getting messages from the nine saying you know you need to go to

[2:20:58 - 2:21:06] ▶

egypt you need to go to you know any you know middle east area you need to go to russia you know and

[2:21:06 - 2:21:16] ▶

nine said you have to go here you have to go there and so he kind of hints at like well what was that

[2:21:43 - 2:21:50] ▶

telling them to go there phyllis schlemer completely questions everything and you know way later in her

[2:22:04 - 2:22:10] ▶

what it did i never questioned what it did and so you just have to ask like how is it that puharic

[2:22:16 - 2:22:23] ▶

high-ranking government people and it's all just oh hey the nine told us to come here so we're here

[2:22:32 - 2:22:38] ▶

and um and so a lot of people speculate you know i've heard stories of you know christian missionaries

[2:22:38 - 2:22:45] ▶

who are actually spies and you know something like that going on again it's uh interesting

[2:22:45 - 2:22:53] ▶

to go down that road to think about and nothing we have like concretely proves that but i just think

[2:22:53 - 2:22:58] ▶

like the more you listen to those tapes at that time and the more you just kind of put things together

[2:22:58 - 2:23:05] ▶

like it does seem like what if that was that was the cover and oh this guy is so crazy he actually

[2:23:05 - 2:23:12] ▶

thinks a psychic is telling him oh just let him go what what a kook and meanwhile he's you know

[2:23:12 - 2:23:17] ▶

a cover for something more vital that clearly was was actually working and functional and he actually on

[2:23:25 - 2:23:31] ▶

the great pyramid in the in the same time and do like all sorts of experiments there really and he

[2:24:14 - 2:24:22] ▶

the egyptian god like so you know that's not and there are nine there are specifically nine egyptian

[2:24:27 - 2:24:32] ▶

meditating in the king's chamber what in 76 and he did experiments with um uh one of the space kids

[2:24:37 - 2:24:46] ▶

in the pyramid and they brought through this information apparently they're channeling this

[2:24:46 - 2:24:50] ▶

egyptian god and some pretty weird information lined up during that session so then that goes back to

[2:24:50 - 2:24:56] ▶

like it's almost like okay i gotta i i have to you know do my job for the cia and on my off time i i can

[2:24:56 - 2:25:06] ▶

go in the pyramid and and do do some cool stuff i'm interested in that's just kind of what it seems because

[2:25:06 - 2:25:12] ▶

like well what does that have to do with you know mk ultra so i just think like and again this goes to like his death in the mystery book

[2:25:22 - 2:25:31] ▶

intelligence agencies and going to do these things but kind of using that time to do other things he wanted and maybe that was he

[2:25:41 - 2:25:49] ▶

he shouldn't have done that and you know you think they took him out as a result maybe of that

[2:25:49 - 2:25:54] ▶

and that but i think he's going okay well i'm already in egypt and there's the great pyramid and i've

[2:26:04 - 2:26:09] ▶

maybe on on a mission and hey you know don't screw around kind of thing i think there was a lot of

[2:26:15 - 2:26:20] ▶

that going on and um his death is completely mysterious what what happened you can see the

[2:26:20 - 2:26:27] ▶

stairway right for this window where my father allegedly fell down and they found him right at the

[2:26:27 - 2:26:33] ▶

would have caused this to happen but basically it was 95 and around this time he was very vocal about

[2:26:52 - 2:27:02] ▶

his life like he was doing these sort of lecture tours at sort of parapsychology conferences and

[2:27:02 - 2:27:07] ▶

stuff and he was being very open about his past and and it was one of these lectures at that time

[2:27:07 - 2:27:15] ▶

i'll remember it but um basically and so he says yeah that's what i did i was i was uh i was a

[2:27:43 - 2:27:48] ▶

i was a consultant at the time and so he opens up about a lot of that stuff he he literally says uh

[2:27:48 - 2:27:55] ▶

think they're having a smoke or something and he's and he's just kind of like hey look you know give

[2:28:19 - 2:28:24] ▶

it to me straight like what's going on with this guy and she she opens up too and she says yeah he

[2:28:24 - 2:28:29] ▶

that that stuff was all created she says so what she was opening up about that on this tape and so so

[2:28:46 - 2:28:55] ▶

research um and again you know you're gonna ask like why why you know like why was it always like

[2:29:21 - 2:29:30] ▶

and he he passed away and at the time he had all these um he was still and again this goes back to

[2:29:46 - 2:29:55] ▶

apparently and he they lived with him and he was still like you know doing stuff with them or whatever

[2:30:01 - 2:30:08] ▶

at the house and puharic has this like weird legal pad that he wrote like very soon before this this

[2:30:17 - 2:30:28] ▶

basically harm him and take him out he claimed again this is either like the work of someone

[2:30:43 - 2:30:49] ▶

the stairs mysteriously he claimed that they this this and again it makes sense because these psychic

[2:30:55 - 2:31:01] ▶

people would kind of like show up even to this day and be like hey you know you should study me

[2:31:01 - 2:31:06] ▶

and this kind of thing so he and he was a nice guy again so he would want he would let people in and

[2:31:06 - 2:31:11] ▶

he would welcome them and so he claimed that there was a people like that who were actually you

[2:31:11 - 2:31:16] ▶

know basically out to get him and that they installed this elf uh emitter in his television set

[2:31:16 - 2:31:25] ▶

so when he would turn on the tv he would get hit by this you know elf that would be and he and he

[2:31:25 - 2:31:31] ▶

was a physician he was a medical doctor so he would know what was going on with his own body and he

[2:31:31 - 2:31:38] ▶

what he says in this but he basically is this legal pad and he really it's all these events kind of

[2:31:56 - 2:32:02] ▶

the day he's found you know there's no one at the house and um right not right before that but a few

[2:32:09 - 2:32:17] ▶

know weapons and so forth again a lot of that was going on in the late 70s

[2:32:42 - 2:32:46] ▶

and he he said no and apparently some argument ensued and he said you know get out of here and and

[2:32:46 - 2:32:53] ▶

because they came to his house he's kind of recounting this in his notes and um the guy that he said came

[2:32:53 - 2:33:00] ▶

beck who's in the who's in the film um and he was another puharach type where where he got roped into a lot

[2:33:06 - 2:33:15] ▶

that and said you know no you know get the hell out of here etc so all of that stuff was leading up to

[2:33:21 - 2:33:29] ▶

95 and he was found dead coincidentally you know the stargate program ends in 95. i was gonna i literally

[2:33:29 - 2:33:36] ▶

made that connection in my mind yeah and coincidentally um this guy grinberg jacobo grinberg yes

[2:33:36 - 2:33:45] ▶

a lot of this psychic stuff was real and to this day they don't know what happened to him

[2:34:06 - 2:34:11] ▶

is was uh found dead grinberg disappeared so again what do you say it's all coincidence and you move on or

[2:34:28 - 2:34:40] ▶

we live in a matrix and then he left the matrix or something like but what's interesting about him

[2:34:47 - 2:34:52] ▶

and of course a lot of people say oh you know he he got sort of kidnapped by whatever government

[2:34:58 - 2:35:04] ▶

agency and they're using him and you know what's crazy is uh on some random message board uh this

[2:35:04 - 2:35:11] ▶

was like years ago i saw a post that was somebody like i know for a fact that puharach never died and

[2:35:11 - 2:35:17] ▶

he was he was taken in by the government and he's still alive and someone i know and the weirdest thing

[2:35:17 - 2:35:24] ▶

is a i was skeptical of that but i i was like years later i remember reading that and i and i spent

[2:35:24 - 2:35:30] ▶

hours and days trying to find this mess but i could not find it for the life of me i tried everything i

[2:35:31 - 2:35:37] ▶

could possibly do and i couldn't i couldn't find it um so that was weird that's super yeah so it just

[2:35:37 - 2:35:43] ▶

got erased or something i get and but that was the that's like the real theory of grinberg like again

[2:35:43 - 2:35:48] ▶

that he was actually taken and well that's one of the theories that basically everyone involved in

[2:36:02 - 2:36:08] ▶

it was all bunk um so and keep in mind buharach at that time was lecturing about all of that and being

[2:36:30 - 2:36:40] ▶

alludes to it like i just think it was this classic you know he knows too much and he can't be he can't be out

[2:36:48 - 2:36:55] ▶

there talking and he he's experienced too much he knows too much and uh it's not good so i could see

[2:36:55 - 2:37:04] ▶

that he did and he's speaking openly and exactly you know they're probably just trying to accelerate

[2:37:09 - 2:37:14] ▶

spoke to so basically but the space kids like yeah there there were a lot um and again the reason the

[2:37:21 - 2:37:27] ▶

believe it took you so long and this and that but a lot of it was like just getting people to talk

[2:37:33 - 2:37:38] ▶

because you know you could imagine these people like don't want to and again this is what you

[2:37:38 - 2:37:44] ▶

but that's what took so long and i always thought like in order to make a really cool

[2:38:03 - 2:38:08] ▶

that's what would make this thing work and so i was just like convinced we got to get these these

[2:38:13 - 2:38:18] ▶

people and we got we got five of them but again there was like a lot more a few of them were like

[2:38:18 - 2:38:23] ▶

was able to track them down just basically through like in puhart's archives and things

[2:38:36 - 2:38:42] ▶

there and again on the tapes like he would say a name or he would write their name well actually in

[2:38:42 - 2:38:46] ▶

them and saying hey i'm i'm you know trying to do like a level-headed you know portrayal of buharic

[2:39:00 - 2:39:06] ▶

like him and his kind of group of physicists people would go up there it was just kind of really yeah

[2:39:34 - 2:39:40] ▶

like a hub of just any all these people interested in this stuff would just go there and like hang out

[2:39:40 - 2:39:44] ▶

for people that don't know sarfati is a physicist who is pretty well respected and studied under you

[2:39:44 - 2:39:53] ▶

know very impressive people who you know were manhattan project you know pioneers and he has a

[2:39:53 - 2:40:00] ▶

model of time travel and warp drive physics yeah and he he lives in the bay area and he's very

[2:40:00 - 2:40:06] ▶

by david kaiser this mit guy yeah and um so i didn't know he had any interaction with uh uh puharic that's

[2:40:12 - 2:40:19] ▶

and talented education program and he was he gets a call from the future saying you're going to meet

[2:40:33 - 2:40:39] ▶

building ufos yeah and in this is a guy who could keep up with you know any top theoretical physicist

[2:40:45 - 2:40:51] ▶

in the world like he's he's a real physicist he studied under hans bett uh you know at cornell and

[2:40:51 - 2:40:57] ▶

stuff yeah and um he uh says he gets a call from the future and then and then you know they tell him

[2:40:57 - 2:41:04] ▶

when he's going to meet the others and then he ends up meeting how put off like later or whatever and

[2:41:04 - 2:41:08] ▶

intelligence and one of the people that he knew through a family member that was connected was this

[2:41:50 - 2:41:57] ▶

guy wilson green he brings up this guy wilson green and that uh guy wilson green was working with

[2:41:57 - 2:42:05] ▶

being a possibility as far as he is yeah but i just remember him bringing up that name and in in

[2:42:28 - 2:42:33] ▶

dc for like meetings who hardwood and this is early 50s again which weird that the same year you're

[2:42:49 - 2:42:58] ▶

he would just like keep very meticulous journals about what he did where he went who he met and he

[2:43:03 - 2:43:09] ▶

would just like hey i met this person for lunch met that person and so yeah wilson green comes to

[2:43:09 - 2:43:14] ▶

and that's the same guy sarfati references but in these journals he mentions um meeting townsend brown

[2:43:20 - 2:43:27] ▶

and spending the day with him and it's very brief unfortunate actually maybe we could do this together

[2:43:29 - 2:43:35] ▶

of a you know a brief uh mention that he he met with with brown and spent the afternoon he says

[2:43:41 - 2:43:48] ▶

who like helped i think it's called the vesuvius project and he helped decode this ancient papyri

[2:43:53 - 2:43:59] ▶

and so if he could do that hopefully he could get us this uh you know this transcript that's crazy so he

[2:43:59 - 2:44:05] ▶

met him and this was again i'm positive it was 53 was that that journal so yeah he was going there um

[2:44:05 - 2:44:13] ▶

so yeah that's how i found it and it brings up all these questions of like were people like warner

[2:44:14 - 2:44:21] ▶

von braun and brown's ideas somehow seeded by like mk ultra adjacent things like probably not because you

[2:44:21 - 2:44:29] ▶

shit like who knows and townsend brown to me obviously i'm very high conviction in his stuff

[2:44:57 - 2:45:02] ▶

yeah townsend brown and so i wonder i wonder what that meeting was like the time then was weird

[2:45:19 - 2:45:27] ▶

modern computation and william shockley who invented the modern semiconductor yeah you know bell labs essentially

[2:45:39 - 2:45:48] ▶

and um it was a letter and he goes you know my my friend you have to meet my friend he's really

[2:45:48 - 2:45:55] ▶

interesting you know he's into all this you know interesting science stuff or whatever and it turns out

[2:45:55 - 2:46:02] ▶

he's talking about l ron hubbard and so the point is like it's this weird time where the intersection

[2:46:02 - 2:46:09] ▶

outside the overton window like it is today yeah and so yeah anyway how would you speculate on do

[2:46:16 - 2:46:22] ▶

you have you speculated on the connection between townsend brown and puharic nothing more than just

[2:46:22 - 2:46:28] ▶

they were probably interested in similar yeah similar things and and but it's odd because he said it was in dc

[2:46:28 - 2:46:35] ▶

townsend brown engaging in a ufo crash retrieval and um i think it's in the late 50s and it's like i think

[2:46:43 - 2:46:52] ▶

hartford connecticut and this like green glowing object that seems like it's losing mass gets collected by

[2:46:52 - 2:47:00] ▶

blue book and robert friend and jay allen hynek have possession of this you know material and townsend

[2:47:06 - 2:47:14] ▶

brown walks in to harvard flashes his credentials and takes the material and like that you hear stories

[2:47:14 - 2:47:20] ▶

and i think she says that there's a telegram between william stevenson who's the inspiration

[2:47:33 - 2:47:38] ▶

comes to intelligence and there's a telegram from um him to josephine who's townsend brown's wife

[2:47:50 - 2:47:57] ▶

in 45 to interrogate some scientists because he was an expert in all this stuff and it's this

[2:48:03 - 2:48:09] ▶

injured but he's okay and he's on his way back to the us or whatever so i can give you like 50 other

[2:48:15 - 2:48:19] ▶

inventions and stuff so this guy was like as deep as it gets when it came to the american intelligence

[2:48:31 - 2:48:37] ▶

and military elite um so it makes sense if puha rich was as well on the kind of the psychic

[2:48:37 - 2:48:43] ▶

you know you know vector and maybe if all of this stuff is being coordinated at a higher level than we

[2:48:44 - 2:48:49] ▶

understand and there's some spooky science stuff and the anti-gravity connects with the psychic stuff

[2:48:49 - 2:48:55] ▶

you know nuts and bull like they all kind of materials they all kind of connect at the at the top

[2:48:55 - 2:49:00] ▶

those two guys seem like very central nodes yeah and i think there's a lot of similarities with what

[2:49:00 - 2:49:06] ▶

you said uh you know this idea of like flashing credentials and walking in play i mean there's again

[2:49:06 - 2:49:12] ▶

i could give you 50 examples of puharic doing that kind of thing that i've heard and so that yeah and i

[2:49:12 - 2:49:20] ▶

think like the journals that mentioned brown and these others like i don't think these were sort of

[2:49:20 - 2:49:26] ▶

needs to take them i don't trust giving them my children for their safety and so i think this is

[2:49:46 - 2:49:51] ▶

the waiting room for an hour and finally got in and we had we talked and so obviously you're up to

[2:50:10 - 2:50:17] ▶

great guy and again he was somebody who would never have wanted to appear in a documentary you know like

[2:50:52 - 2:51:00] ▶

because he knows like i did there's just so much like bs stuff out there about puharic and everything

[2:51:12 - 2:51:17] ▶

uh together and she they were sitting in a room together both meditating and he says that at one point

[2:51:33 - 2:51:44] ▶

she got up and she went over to him and she touched his forehead with her finger and when she did that

[2:51:45 - 2:51:57] ▶

next thing he knew he came to she was all the way across the room against the wall and he was back up

[2:52:07 - 2:52:13] ▶

against the wall and he doesn't remember what happened and the last thing he remembers is that she

[2:52:13 - 2:52:19] ▶

touched his forehead some sort of burst of blue light she flew across the room and he told me that and

[2:52:19 - 2:52:31] ▶

you know and he said look you know you can talk to the assistant like she'll she'll corroborate this and

[2:52:31 - 2:52:38] ▶

and i did and she did and she did and his his theory was just like we some connection you know must have been

[2:52:38 - 2:52:48] ▶

been occurring and and and what what what do you do with that because something i learned which was

[2:52:49 - 2:52:57] ▶

later in his life is he he says and again this is not me or a speculation or making something up like

[2:53:05 - 2:53:12] ▶

be in in order to do channeling and so he could basically just like i could go like this to you and

[2:53:32 - 2:53:38] ▶

so was this instance with jaime and the finger something to do with that what was it not i don't

[2:53:46 - 2:53:52] ▶

this session and then some claim to have witnessed that um there was a few stories like that so that

[2:54:12 - 2:54:20] ▶

creating some weird protocol and then like what happens to them happens to them and we have no

[2:54:47 - 2:54:52] ▶

a lot of these sessions are very long like some of them are literally like two hours long you know and

[2:55:03 - 2:55:10] ▶

contact with an extraterrestrial say you were to suspend disbelief entirely and just take the contents

[2:55:32 - 2:55:39] ▶

destroying ourselves you know and that if there's a way they can prevent that then they they want to

[2:56:00 - 2:56:07] ▶

and they talk a lot about nuclear bases and this kind of thing that you know we hear a lot about now

[2:56:08 - 2:56:14] ▶

the 40s there's this guy bud clem uh there's this ufo and nukes documentary it's all based on robert

[2:56:33 - 2:56:38] ▶

hastings great work in his book it's really good and i made kind of a you know another little thing

[2:56:38 - 2:56:43] ▶

he's talking about these fireballs in the sky and they did this project twinkle which was deleted from

[2:56:49 - 2:56:54] ▶

anything prosaic and just like the nuclear connection is so ubiquitous and then you're

[2:57:06 - 2:57:11] ▶

was um there is uh i think i sent you something about this guy a while ago and uh i i have to say

[2:58:13 - 2:58:20] ▶

riser he was a um philosophy professor at university of pittsburgh in the 60s and 70s um

[2:58:25 - 2:58:34] ▶

and he wrote a book called cosmic humanism which i've only read some of but it's basically uh this

[2:58:35 - 2:58:43] ▶

and that's how you know we that's how like inner interstellar travel works that's how all psychic

[2:59:00 - 2:59:08] ▶

here with this tone stuff but anyways buharaj knew this guy they exchanged like dozens and dozens of

[2:59:14 - 2:59:20] ▶

through tones through sound and he was like again so complex i can barely understand it but him and

[2:59:31 - 2:59:39] ▶

buharaj would exchange these letters that were like you know two masters going back and forth about this

[2:59:39 - 2:59:45] ▶

stuff like diagrams charts math and like you got to think like they obviously were like on to something

[2:59:45 - 2:59:53] ▶

and again this goes back for the hundredth time of like buharaj's real interest in this stuff but riser

[2:59:53 - 2:59:59] ▶

through tones and through sound and so you get puharaj you know doing that basically where he's using

[3:00:07 - 3:00:15] ▶

tones and sound with space kids and can you while they're in a trance there's a lot of experiments

[3:00:15 - 3:00:21] ▶

where like i'm going to play this certain tone and can you kind of like connect with that tone while

[3:00:21 - 3:00:28] ▶

you're in this hypnotic state and can you follow that tone where is it bringing you and what do you hear

[3:00:28 - 3:00:34] ▶

you know this genius that's insane because riser talks about like parapsychology and mind batter stuff

[3:01:05 - 3:01:12] ▶

yeah and you think of einstein as being totally opposed to yeah well i think with riser like a lot

[3:01:12 - 3:01:17] ▶

works and so him and puharic were um exchanging a lot of letters about like you know do you have

[3:01:28 - 3:01:36] ▶

the ability to to create such and such a tone and what at what speed should it spin within the you know

[3:01:36 - 3:01:44] ▶

about something serious here you know that's so fascinating so so and then the atomic energy

[3:01:52 - 3:01:58] ▶

there's it's a paper trail and the 50s ufos showing up around nuclear bases is you this ubiquitous

[3:02:11 - 3:02:17] ▶

you know he he was genuinely interested in in in paranormal you know research and in ufo i mean

[3:02:41 - 3:02:50] ▶

it's not just like all of that was fake yeah yeah i just think it got muddled at some point yeah and

[3:02:50 - 3:02:56] ▶

and then it's converted into this elf frequency and it's transmitting to the you know space kids brain or

[3:03:04 - 3:03:09] ▶

um coupling to the computer data bank is often a term that is thrown around a lot and this idea that

[3:03:13 - 3:03:22] ▶

source of data and there's a lot of talk about about that and again like what we have are tapes

[3:03:50 - 3:03:58] ▶

and and tons of them and hundreds of hours so like you just all you can do is piece together

[3:03:59 - 3:04:03] ▶

a great question and i think that's really the best way to approach it because they they were involved

[3:04:21 - 3:04:26] ▶

that what was happening was genuine and i think they want to remember the time they had there as a

[3:05:28 - 3:05:36] ▶

positive time and they want to they don't want to go down the negative path or they don't maybe want

[3:05:36 - 3:05:43] ▶

to accept that the negative path may maybe you know the reality and i don't i mean i would probably do

[3:05:43 - 3:05:52] ▶

free you know etc and a few of them um have become more open like the guy from mexico city i told you

[3:06:04 - 3:06:12] ▶

where i think some of the things that i told them made them say wait a second i didn't know that and all

[3:06:12 - 3:06:18] ▶

of a sudden after all these years they themselves are going wait what is that and whose name is and

[3:06:18 - 3:06:24] ▶

they're starting to put pieces together that they never they never thought about and they're starting

[3:06:24 - 3:06:30] ▶

one of the trippiest people that interacted with puharic who who he probably had plans for and

[3:06:44 - 3:06:51] ▶

that she was um she was working in the uh white house during the uh nixon administration and it

[3:07:13 - 3:07:23] ▶

topic uh she became very good friends with um gordon cooper and she claimed to be a space kid i guess

[3:07:49 - 3:07:59] ▶

like she claimed to be able to like channel information and so she somehow wound up at puharic's

[3:07:59 - 3:08:07] ▶

lab lab lab nine and in 78 and she is very there's nothing there about her there's nothing out there

[3:08:07 - 3:08:17] ▶

and i think knew a lot we have a tape recording of um this guy elvis star who was very very high

[3:08:29 - 3:08:37] ▶

white house um she believed she was in touch with extraterrestrials and he kind of makes a joke like

[3:08:57 - 3:09:04] ▶

speculation about like what's true and what's not true but this was a very legitimate guy basically

[3:09:09 - 3:09:15] ▶

the head of uh army something or other and then he went on to become the president of like west

[3:09:21 - 3:09:28] ▶

virginia university but he was a part of all these like weird science um uh companies and weird energy

[3:09:28 - 3:09:37] ▶

llc or something that valerie had some sort of connection to and this guy was like consulting for

[3:09:44 - 3:09:51] ▶

that or he was connected to a lot of like weird stuff basically and it was very little on him

[3:09:51 - 3:09:58] ▶

a memoir and we found this tape where he was kind of like dictating um the what he was writing and he

[3:10:04 - 3:10:10] ▶

really involved in a lot of tesla technology research a lot of elf research and a lot of people

[3:10:42 - 3:10:47] ▶

around yeah yeah and then and then but and she was somehow like do you know what role she had in the

[3:11:02 - 3:11:07] ▶

i don't remember but it was some program that she like ran in dc and as part of the nixon administration

[3:11:22 - 3:11:28] ▶

with with that that world and she had some nro involvement too yeah jacques filet is the only

[3:11:33 - 3:11:39] ▶

one i know who wrote about it but he claims that he he spoke with her back in that late 70s time and she

[3:11:39 - 3:11:46] ▶

was doing some sort of work for the nro and um experimenting with satellites and messages from

[3:11:46 - 3:11:52] ▶

satellites to people and i'm telling you man yeah i mean i've tried to i mean the other film i'm doing

[3:11:52 - 3:12:02] ▶

which is a whole other thing but she's really involved in that and that's how i got into her

[3:12:02 - 3:12:07] ▶

and uh i don't know if they ever will because i've certainly tried hard to and apparently she's still

[3:12:22 - 3:12:26] ▶

of know where where she is and stuff but but it's really just strange she was very involved with gordon

[3:12:33 - 3:12:39] ▶

cooper and again he had started some company as well that was some like advanced energy llc or something

[3:12:39 - 3:12:46] ▶

and so from what i understand she was kind of like going around and even jacques says this like she was

[3:12:46 - 3:12:54] ▶

just trying to create this network of of you know high up government individuals and people to kind

[3:12:54 - 3:13:00] ▶

while she claimed to be you know a space kid and able to receive information and and channel information and

[3:13:08 - 3:13:15] ▶

so trippy yeah and there's a guy a kit green he um i mean i don't even care anymore at this point

[3:13:15 - 3:13:24] ▶

about saying stuff like this like he i was talking to him for a while and he was like yeah i can't be

[3:13:24 - 3:13:30] ▶

involved in anything that mentions buhar is just too controversial and then he told me that he knew

[3:13:30 - 3:13:36] ▶

valerie ranson really well and that he was like i don't know much about him again i'm not trying to

[3:13:36 - 3:13:41] ▶

they're abducted and stuff so apparently he was doing that even back then with valerie and he was

[3:13:52 - 3:13:56] ▶

uh and like basically like don't talk me again and anything revolving that name i can't be associated

[3:14:16 - 3:14:23] ▶

with and every single person i've talked to who knew valerie or had same reaction yeah i'm literally

[3:14:23 - 3:14:34] ▶

like i wouldn't go there you should just kind of stop now and i've gotten all that stuff whoa so like

[3:14:34 - 3:14:40] ▶

audience kit green um deeply involved he's a cia psychiatrist and doctor i knew that but after all

[3:14:45 - 3:14:52] ▶

gary nolan in the like mid 2010s i think that was i think given by kit green and kit green analyzed them

[3:15:09 - 3:15:15] ▶

like you you're better off like not going there kind of thing so a couple of speculations firstly and

[3:15:51 - 3:15:58] ▶

who um i i know who's really cool but uh he knew her he knew valerie really well and he um painted her

[3:16:04 - 3:16:12] ▶

but um he speculates that she was sort of um like a spy and and and the type that would maybe sleep

[3:16:22 - 3:16:30] ▶

with with somebody for information and a lot of reasons that these men in particular don't want to

[3:16:30 - 3:16:36] ▶

that i know literally one that exists of her that's not true there's one online and there's one that i

[3:16:53 - 3:17:00] ▶

have in the puharach archives of her at lab nine um and you know yeah she was very good looking so that

[3:17:00 - 3:17:06] ▶

with funding for certain projects and hey i'm a part of this thing you should be a part of this

[3:17:38 - 3:17:43] ▶

thing because again she was always on these boards of these sort of weird energy companies and things

[3:17:43 - 3:17:48] ▶

and it says valerie randstone like describes her ufo um experience you can go anyone can go right now

[3:18:07 - 3:18:15] ▶

and look it up and i was like holy holy like that's her i've never seen again there's one picture

[3:18:15 - 3:18:22] ▶

and i'm like oh my this is crazy right so in the interview it's really bizarre she tells us really

[3:18:23 - 3:18:28] ▶

weird and the thing is it checks out of what we know from her and most of the information is from the

[3:18:28 - 3:18:33] ▶

forbidden science books jock valet stuff and you know she says i was going to school in northern

[3:18:33 - 3:18:39] ▶

her i knew her that's not her and i said well that doesn't make sense because like everything she

[3:18:58 - 3:19:02] ▶

says in the video checks out to what we definitely know nope not her not one person and even this do

[3:19:02 - 3:19:10] ▶

you know anyone who thinks that's her is an idiot and but everything she says checks out and in the

[3:19:21 - 3:19:26] ▶

and her friends saw it and then after that she continued to have bizarre um sightings of ufo sightings

[3:19:33 - 3:19:41] ▶

happened to her in her life many times and then some guy you got to see the video she says this guy

[3:19:41 - 3:19:48] ▶

shows up one day to her job and is like hey you know i want to take you i can't remember exactly that

[3:19:49 - 3:19:55] ▶

what she says but basically this very mysterious guy shows up they go out to lunch and he's like

[3:19:55 - 3:20:01] ▶

you know i know that you've had these ufo experience and he and he spouts all this stuff

[3:20:02 - 3:20:07] ▶

she gets into the car with this guy because he's driving her home or something and he gets a tape

[3:20:20 - 3:20:25] ▶

cassette puts it in the car and the tape cassette starts and it's a voice a metallic voice

[3:20:25 - 3:20:32] ▶

basically saying you know i am an a i'm an et and i'm here on earth on like a humanitarian mission

[3:20:33 - 3:20:41] ▶

and i we want you to work with us you you're going to be the first uh test human to work with us

[3:20:41 - 3:20:51] ▶

and you know do you do you accept this position and and then she she the guy parks and she gets out or

[3:20:52 - 3:21:00] ▶

whatever and and she starts to question okay what what's going on here like was this real was this guy

[3:21:00 - 3:21:07] ▶

trying to like recruit and what it's it's that's her story and and then after that is when all this

[3:21:07 - 3:21:14] ▶

and all this stuff that we know about is you know late 76 and 77 70. so that's her like origin story

[3:21:20 - 3:21:28] ▶

woman that's not even what she looks like so but and the tape recording we have this which is a

[3:21:34 - 3:21:41] ▶

so that's a rabbit hole in and of itself but but basically yeah she spent like a good amount of time at lab

[3:21:55 - 3:22:02] ▶

nine um and she brought gordon cooper there and then she disappeared and everyone who knew her was

[3:22:02 - 3:22:11] ▶

to buy it on some odd website which is now down but um it's very very strange and um when i was

[3:22:27 - 3:22:35] ▶

touch with me completely out of the blue and this has happened a few times throughout the the making of

[3:22:42 - 3:22:47] ▶

him and what do you have and we should we should talk and and that kind of thing this one guy weirdly

[3:22:53 - 3:23:00] ▶

right around the time i was trying to um try to track down valerie he reaches out to me and he's like

[3:23:00 - 3:23:07] ▶

same thing hey i know i'm a i'm a researcher and i heard your name about puhart and this and that

[3:23:07 - 3:23:13] ▶

and he's like you know have you heard of valerie rantzone i said yeah he goes oh would you want to

[3:23:13 - 3:23:19] ▶

talk to her because i'm actually in contact with her and i'm like yeah sure and and so he forwards

[3:23:19 - 3:23:25] ▶

me an email which is allegedly from valerie which is like you know hey uh you know let's talk and this

[3:23:25 - 3:23:32] ▶

and that and and one thing led to another and this guy just completely ghost disappears right never heard

[3:23:32 - 3:23:40] ▶

from him again i look him up on facebook and again i may maybe i'm crazy and this stuff has gotten

[3:23:40 - 3:23:49] ▶

yeah yeah this isn't me kind of thing sure and that you know again i'm very level head that it really

[3:23:56 - 3:24:03] ▶

like spooked me out and then years later year this was we're talking probably tooth uh probably like

[3:24:03 - 3:24:12] ▶

2016 17 i'm talking like you know not that long ago like 20 21 20. he reaches back out to me and is

[3:24:12 - 3:24:21] ▶

like hey you know what's going on with the film and is there any way i can see it and hey did you ever

[3:24:21 - 3:24:27] ▶

talk to valerie if you want i can try to get and i just never responded to the guy again it was really

[3:24:27 - 3:24:32] ▶

strange wow and i tried the email that he had that he claimed was valerie's of course it like you know

[3:24:32 - 3:24:39] ▶

her yes and you're gonna try to interview yes that's amazing yeah well i hope you do man that would be

[3:24:51 - 3:24:57] ▶

it and just the fact alone that kit green was involved with her back in the late 70s is really

[3:25:05 - 3:25:10] ▶

strange so strange yeah and early 80s yeah this is crazy it's so it's like there's a woman in the

[3:25:10 - 3:25:19] ▶

nixon white house who's to claim she's channeling aliens and also happens to be on the board of all

[3:25:19 - 3:25:24] ▶

uh extra low frequency technology it's really wild and what i can say for for again for a fact is

[3:25:32 - 3:25:39] ▶

frequency weapons and it's on youtube there's a whole cnn special which came out a little later i

[3:25:47 - 3:25:51] ▶

those those types of weapons and um you know radio towers that can beam a certain frequency that can

[3:25:58 - 3:26:05] ▶

agitate people and etc so that was kind of like the wild west and that in the late 70s there of like

[3:26:05 - 3:26:10] ▶

i think people trying to figure out what this is what can be done with it and he was just like in in the

[3:26:10 - 3:26:17] ▶

the middle of that and um you know there was a lot of people running around researching that at the

[3:26:17 - 3:26:23] ▶

time and i think there was also a lot of research happening of um you know what's the potential of

[3:26:23 - 3:26:29] ▶

this stuff what's possible with it um so and valerie was again interested in that and was involved in in

[3:26:29 - 3:26:39] ▶

to usually emphasize kind of aerospace contractors secret you know nuts and bolts weapons technology

[3:26:49 - 3:26:58] ▶

i think there's some there's some truth peppered into a lot of you know false going on and i think that

[3:27:14 - 3:27:22] ▶

just still difficult to navigate what's what's real and what is not real you know and i think it takes

[3:27:31 - 3:27:41] ▶

people you know like you and and others who are like really seriously interested in looking into this

[3:27:42 - 3:27:49] ▶

stuff and talking to people to to kind of like keep going with it you know yeah well this is a i mean

[3:27:49 - 3:27:56] ▶

think it's going to be you know make make a lot of waves and update a lot of people's understanding of

[3:28:07 - 3:28:12] ▶

this whole topic and i loved it i thought it was really well made um how can people go find it uh

[3:28:12 - 3:28:19] ▶

well it's going to be for purchase um on you know itunes and youtube and that kind of thing

[3:28:19 - 3:28:26] ▶

some interest in in um some streaming stuff so and any anything big that uh i didn't touch on that i

[3:28:39 - 3:28:46] ▶

who hart is doing a lot of space kids stuff like late 70s into the early 80s and a lot of elf stuff

[3:29:12 - 3:29:17] ▶

and i just just called him straight up and i introduced myself how'd you get his number

[3:29:18 - 3:29:22] ▶

was like a bunch of different numbers and oh my god none of these are ever going to work and i was

[3:29:29 - 3:29:33] ▶

like hello and it was him it was one of them oh my god and he was pretty nice but i just straight up

[3:29:33 - 3:29:38] ▶

those are the two working at that time um with the space kids and he was like no i've never heard

[3:29:42 - 3:29:49] ▶

the name and he was really nice and he was just like if you come across anything more concrete you

[3:29:49 - 3:29:53] ▶

can call me back and and um but i just figured huh maybe he he knows something because we know we know

[3:29:53 - 3:30:00] ▶

he said the the deepest you know kind of core was the o and i office of naval intelligence they really

[3:30:14 - 3:30:21] ▶

knew the most about this stuff yeah he he buharic was in with them very early on and he continued in

[3:30:21 - 3:30:27] ▶

they got like this huge grant from the the oni and i was like you know looking everywhere to try

[3:30:34 - 3:30:41] ▶

to find dog she has a huge archive at berkeley of all of her research and i i had someone go there and

[3:30:41 - 3:30:47] ▶

look and we couldn't find anything but but um you know they they were working with a lot of people then

[3:30:47 - 3:30:55] ▶

information as well he was the i think uh uh deputy director of the cia and the director of the nsa

[3:31:02 - 3:31:10] ▶

mm and like valerie you know huge question mark everyone who knew her then was like she was this

[3:31:32 - 3:31:40] ▶

in government and academics and just say like look what she can do she can channel all this advanced

[3:31:46 - 3:31:51] ▶

information he was always working with her there's pictures of her and she just disappeared and

[3:31:51 - 3:31:57] ▶

like she was the real deal and she was sort of pulled into a project like that that's why she's just

[3:32:10 - 3:32:16] ▶

reality here because it's just so bizarre and like multiple space kids were like yeah i knew her well and

[3:32:31 - 3:32:38] ▶

i i wish we could find her like she was a friend of mine and she disappeared just like she was a the whole

[3:32:38 - 3:32:43] ▶

know the montauk experiments and i think it's pretty well established that there were some experiments in

[3:33:02 - 3:33:07] ▶

gifted and talented education you know uh kids who do who have psi abilities yeah being taken into

[3:33:12 - 3:33:19] ▶

research and development centers like patel memorial institute and others and um you know they're

[3:33:25 - 3:33:31] ▶

yeah this you know this one checks out and they would move on to wherever they would move on to

[3:34:02 - 3:34:07] ▶

um he talks about helping other countries with this the uk he said he traveled to the uk and helped

[3:34:08 - 3:34:14] ▶

them locate children with psi abilities so it's all that it's all that gray area you know yeah and you you

[3:34:14 - 3:34:24] ▶

in the entire country yeah and part of me is thinks it's a beautiful amazing thing and obviously in

[3:34:31 - 3:34:37] ▶

and she clearly was peeking past this blindfold which is it's just so sad and what a poor representation

[3:34:58 - 3:35:05] ▶

index of aliens psi and psychedelics um and you were to you were to you know in like say it's like

[3:35:18 - 3:35:27] ▶

the trend is like and are you cynical about that is is there is there i mean maybe even to take that

[3:35:44 - 3:35:50] ▶

it touches on kind of deeper architectures and nature of reality and then there's another part of

[3:36:04 - 3:36:10] ▶

pieces together about the history of all this stuff and i think the fact that it's coming out now is

[3:36:23 - 3:36:28] ▶

mean i don't know like i talked to a kid who claimed he was part of the gate program and i won't say

[3:36:35 - 3:36:40] ▶

his name but now now he's very vocal online about his involvement in that and what he did and he

[3:36:40 - 3:36:46] ▶

buharic was certainly extremely important in this whole world and the fact that there's never really

[3:37:05 - 3:37:11] ▶

are uncorrelated from other you know i love the the stories you know i love i saw a thing and i was in

[3:37:38 - 3:37:44] ▶

uh that seems to be missing as far as this whole story and obviously begets uh you know a hundred

[3:38:05 - 3:38:10] ▶

more questions but yeah um i really hope everybody checks out the movie and uh thank you for being here

[3:38:10 - 3:38:15] ▶

yeah head to americanalchemymerch.com to grab official american alchemy merch and support the

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show directly and while you're there the cowboy ufot is a fan favorite we always keep in stock

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This CIA Scientist Led Alien Contact Ceremonies for Elites