Transcript: Physical Evidence of an Alien Encounter - Joe Simonton - DEBRIEFED ep. 50

April 18, 1961. Joe Simonton, a 54-year-old plumber and chicken farmer, is having breakfast

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when all of a sudden, in his backyard, a giant flying saucer descends from above,

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hovering about a foot over the ground. Curious to see who it was, Joe makes his way outside

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to notice that a hatch is already open. A small human-like figure hands Joe a jug and signing to

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him to fill it up with water. After filling it up and returning it to the visitor, he is then handed

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possibly the strangest and most bizarre piece of physical evidence ever recorded in UFO history.

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A pancake. This is the story of Joe Simonton.

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I live in northeastern Arizona, east of Snowflake. And in 1993, I was hiking on 60-acre

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years my son and I had just gotten. And there was a spaceship and I communicated with the

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beings on the ship and they told me they'd be back in 30 years. And in 2023,

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I wasn't even thinking about it, but there was a voice. It's been 30 years.

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And I've been communicating with them ever since. The last time was last night.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Debriefed. My name is Chris Ramsey.

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And today we're going to be taking a look at one of the most bizarre, unexplainable,

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and completely strange encounters in history. This is the story of Joe Simonton. Before we dive deep

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into this case and diving deep, we will, as our research team over at Area 52 went well above and

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beyond to find not only a lot of the evidence that was presented back in 1961, but a lot of the

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corroborating sightings that happened in that area around the exact same time. And you'll want to stick

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around because we actually made these famous pancakes. All that coming up. But before we get into any of that,

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I just want to say that our out of body merch is currently still available. These go fast. We've,

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I think in the first day, half of the stock was gone. So I'm not even sure if by the time I'm recording

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this, that any of it will be available, but do check it out. Area52.shop. Plus we got all the MJ12 stuff,

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got a whole bunch of stuff going on over there if you want to check it out. And folks, we just paid the bills.

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Like this video, subscribe, hit the notification bell. It is time to get into one of the wackiest,

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zaniest, dare I say strangest cases in all of UFO history. This is the case of Joe Simonton and his

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alien pancakes. In here, we've got newspaper clippings. We've got reports from Project Blue Book.

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We've got reports from NICAP. We've got judges demanding the samples of the evidence. We've got

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the Air Force actually doing a deep analysis on these pancakes or cookies. We've got witness

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testimonies. This is actually a really, really fascinating case. And most people only know about

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the surface level stuff. But to give you an idea about what this case is, April 18th, 1961,

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the landing. So Joe Simonton, a chicken farmer and a plumber, had just finished a late breakfast when

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he heard a rushing, whirring noise like knobby tires on wet pavement. Stepping outside, he watched a

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brilliant metallic disc drop vertically and hover a few feet above his driveway. The craft stood roughly

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12 feet high and 30 feet across, brighter than chrome. No windows were visible. The air hummed

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like a big electric motor. Inside the hatch, the color was black, like wrought iron. Control boards

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about two feet high and four feet long lie in the wall. Belts or cables clipped at each man's waist.

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Three occupants, five feet tall, about 120 pounds, wore black two-piece suits with turtleneck tops,

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snug caps down to the eyebrows, no buttons, zippers or visible shoes. Their complexions were dark

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and Simonton thought they looked Italian, mid-20s to early 30s. Oh folks, it gets stranger yet.

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One handed a silvery two-handled jug and motioned for water. Simonton filled it at his basement pump.

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He's quoted here,

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I handed the water up to the man. As he took it, I balanced my left hand on the side of the saucer.

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No burn, no radioactivity. Then I stepped back. The man gave me a salute with the back of his hand

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and I returned our salute. Simonton gestured toward a second figure, cooking on a flameless square

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griddle. The being passed him four hot perforated cakes. Simonton tasted one immediately and is quoted

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saying it tasted exactly like cardboard. The hatch sealed so smoothly, quote, you couldn't see where

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it had been. The disc rose 20 feet, tilted south at 45 degrees and shot away in about two seconds.

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The blast bending pine treetops. This is the broad strokes of the encounter. We're going to get into

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Simonton's actual witness testimony, as well as what I find most intriguing is all of the follow-up to

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this case. Folks, I just wanted to interject and take a second to thank David Marler from the UFO

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National Archive in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I reached out to David because in the files that

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are available online, namely the CUFOS file, which is the organization made by J. Allen Hynek,

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but also the NICAP and APRO files, nowhere to be found are the drawings that Joe Simonton himself

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made. Two drawings are missing from those files. It is the drawing of the craft that he himself drew out,

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and the drawing of the jug handed to him by this extraterrestrial being. So David Marler was not

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only nice enough to send me a picture of each of them, which I have here, and you're seeing this for

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the first time on the internet. That is the jug that he drew, which is a little strange, and this is the

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UFO that he drew. But David also sent us a picture of the actual pancake. You might be looking at an

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actual extraterrestrial pancake held by David Marler. So thank you so much to David, and I'll leave the

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link to the UFO archive below. Also, folks, I have taken the time to actually cook up,

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according to the deep analysis and research of what these pancakes were made of. I actually took

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the time to make some of them. They do smell like cardboard. Stay tuned to the end of the video.

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I'm actually going to try one of these. And if you want to see me actually make these,

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I'll be uploading a behind the scenes video on Sunday for the members. Check that out. All right,

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back to the video. A few things that are really interesting that we should note here,

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the rushing, whirring noise like knobby tires on wet pavement. This is not uncommon when looking into

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different cases around the same time. There was the Staffordshire witness who said that she

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had heard this sound, what sounded like water being poured out, like hot water being poured out.

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I heard this terrific noise. It was just like a giant cauldron of water being poured onto a fire,

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a shh sort of noise, you know.

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Maybe this is the sound of the craft sort of, I don't know, phasing in or something. Also interesting

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and maybe not even related, but many people who've had out-of-body experiences say they hear this loud

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wave crashing or whooshing sound during the out-of-body experience. So is he potentially

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experiencing some interdimensional phenomenon that happens to make this sound when interacting with it?

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I don't know. I don't know. We're just throwing it out there.

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The next thing I want to talk about is the hatch. The hatch closed and he's quoted as saying,

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you couldn't see where it had been. I could give you a list of probably a hundred witnesses that say

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the same thing. If we look at recently, we talked about Antonio Villas-Boas. This gentleman in 1957

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got picked up by a bunch of little beings and he said the same thing. Aside from the color of the craft,

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which is like wrought iron, something akin to what Bob Lazar describes as a pewter color of the craft,

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I thought was very interesting. And finally, the craft rose in the air, tilted at a 45 degree angle

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before shooting off. This is extremely common.

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And this thing, the size of a Prius, blacker than black, reared up 45 degrees and then shot up into

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the sky faster than anything he'd ever seen. In so many cases, including the craft mentioned by Bob

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Lazar, that somehow with the emitters and the amplifiers, the craft has to sort of tilt before

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it goes into this really fast mode. There are three amplifiers.

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The way in which it's propelled are two different ways. There's what they call Omicron configuration,

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where the craft is using one generator, or a delta configuration, where it's utilizing all three.

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Delta configuration would be for space travel. Essentially, the craft will tilt up on its side,

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as opposed to a science fiction movie where you see a flying saucer moving around. The craft will tilt

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up on its side, focus the three gravity generators to a single point and move through space that way.

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We also are reminded of Westall, the sighting at Westall where the craft as well, there's this

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famous Polaroid that I'll pull up here, where the craft went to its side before taking off.

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So are these crafts all using the same technology? Are they all built at the same factory?

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Is this just something that you need to do to travel really fast? I don't know. But it's interesting.

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And not to mention the gimbal footage. This seems also like something we witnessed in 2017 when that

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footage was released, that the craft looked like it stopped and then started tilting on its axis.

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So immediately we're looking at things that seem to corroborate future sightings,

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or at least that act as a genesis to all the other reports. Now, most people stop there when it comes

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to Joe Simonton. They think, well, this guy's clearly gone mad. He's clearly gone insane.

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We'll save that for a bit later because very reputable, credible, and trustworthy people

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will actually vouch for Joe Simonton's mental health. And the fact that he is a standup person

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and really a pillar in the community. He's not someone who is known to exaggerate, lie,

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or make things up. And the fact that, you know, he really didn't profit from any of this,

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I think should also be noted. So during the same hour, Savino Borgo driving Highway 70 about a mile

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west saw a metallic disc lift diagonally and fly parallel to the road, silent, shiny, and gone in

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moments. Here is his testimony in the Milwaukee Sentinel, April 28, 1961. Savino Borgo, about 50,

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Eagle River insurance agent and scoutmaster, said he had seen the saucer while driving on Highway 70

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about a mile from Simonton's home. He said it rose diagonally and flew west generally parallel to Highway

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70 about the time that Simonton said he saw it.

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Jack Long, who runs a market near Boulder Junction, and Gib Sanborn, Wisconsin State Employment Service

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Office manager at Eagle River, both told of recently citing saucers. And then Simonton goes on to saying

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that he had received a bail of letters from people particularly in the Fort Atkinson area who said

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they had seen flying saucers, but had not had the courage to report their findings in the face of

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ridicule they expected. So that, my friends, is an incredibly interesting little piece of corroborative

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evidence that I think many people omit to this story, that in the same hour, the same craft described

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by Simonton was seen in that general vicinity also flying diagonally in the same direction. But then,

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sometime between April 18th, the landing, and April 21st, Joe Simonton brought a single pancake

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to County Judge Frank W. Carter. On April 21st, Carter forwarded that specimen to NICAP

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in Washington for laboratory analysis. And NICAP is actually pretty interesting. So it's one of the

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most prominent civilian UFO research organizations in the United States, especially during the 50s and

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the 60s. This was founded in 1956 by none other than Thomas Townsend Brown. I think I hear Jesse

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Michaels ears burning from here. It later came under the leadership of retired Marine Major Donald E.

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Kehoe, who became the most public face of the organization. NICAP stands for National Investigations

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Committee on Aerial Phenomenon. It should also be noted that NICAP helped fund the Condon Committee,

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which went on from 66 to 68, which was like a government funded organization to see if there

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was a there there regarding UFOs. And then, you know, the famous Condon report came out saying that,

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no, nothing's going on. Nothing to see here, folks. Move it along. There was also another sighting on

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April 18th, 1961. And this is the report given to NICAP at the time. This is from Mrs. Paul Cooper

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and Daughters. So this is the report that you would have to fill out. This is Mrs. Paul Cooper. So I'm

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guessing Paul Cooper's wife, occupation housewife. They give the address here, the telephone number,

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and the date of observation being April 18th, 1961. Within the same area, how long did you see

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the object three to five minutes? The weather conditions? It was dusk. Position of the sun or

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moon. We were east. The object was traveling north and sighted in the west. She describes it as

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seemingly revolving, which is interesting. The object also seemed to be brighter than the background of

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the sky. It wasn't standing still, but it might have been giving off smoke. Okay. So did she see an

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airplane? Did she see a possible UFO crash? Who knows? She says the object was sharply outlined

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and looked like a bright star. It looked, it was perhaps self-luminous and perhaps reflecting.

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She said it had a curved, bright streak, curved as a comet might be, if orbiting. She says it seemed to me

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like something traveling across the sky in a sort of orbit. And the reason she reported this is because

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she read in the newspaper later on of Joe Simonton's report and then remembered what she saw. And that's

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why she wanted to submit this retroactively. But alas, we don't have a solid description of an object.

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It seemed like a defined object that was rotating, that was emitting a light,

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but also had some type of trail that was curved. Who knows what she was seeing? Was that the same

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object? It happened to be on the same day, which I think is interesting and definitely worth mentioning.

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So following this on April 19th, somewhere between April 19th and April 21, we don't exactly know

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because there isn't any real evidence here or any paper trail, but Joe hands over the pancakes to

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County judge Frank W. Carter. And then on April 21st, Carter forwarded that specimen to NICAP in

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Washington for laboratory analysis. Carter saying, today I forward you a cake alleged to have been

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taken from a UFO that landed on Mr. Joseph Simonton's farm, kindly arrange scientific analysis and advise

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whether similar specimens have ever been reported. Now, between April 21 and April 22, this is where

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things begin to get a little complex. Because this is when the story hits the wires.

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Meanwhile, the pancakes are sent off to being tested. And this will all in a second alert the Air Force.

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But before we get there, let's look at these articles.

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Got cakes from saucermen is claim of Joe Simonton. This is from the Three Lakes News.

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The alleged landing and contact between three men and a flying saucer.

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And Joe Simonton, 54-year-old Eagle River plumber, has rocketed to first statewide.

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And then nationwide attention since it broke to the public shortly after noon Saturday.

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Simonton claims he received several small pancake-shaped pieces of food from visitors from outer space.

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He turned over one of the cakes about three inches in diameter and perforated with many little small

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holes to Judge Frank Carter, who said he sent them to Washington, D.C. organization

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investigating unidentified flying objects.

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The National Press Services became interested in the story, picked it up, and received confirmation

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from Washington that the cakes had been received.

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But a lab report based on an analysis of the cakes would be unavailable until Friday, April 28,

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or as late as Monday of next week.

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Meanwhile, the story simmers.

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And the question rages, what is behind the incredible report from Joe Simonton?

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The claimed landing of the flying saucer was said to have occurred about 11 a.m. on Tuesday,

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April 18, but Simonton said he was reluctant to spread the word, realizing some would claim

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his experience was preposterous.

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He said he was attracted to his yard when he heard a noise outside and the saucer gleaming

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silver brighter than chrome had landed in his yard.

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He said about 12 feet from top to bottom and about 30 feet in diameter.

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Simonton said the hatch opened about five feet from the ground and he could see three men in

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the machine.

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He said one of the men, dressed in a black two-piece suit, held up a jug, which appeared to be of

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the same material as the spaceship.

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Well, that's interesting.

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That's something I didn't know.

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And motioned to indicate he would like water.

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Simonton said he took the jug, hurried to the house to comply, and brought it back to

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the men.

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He judged they were about five feet in height and weighed about 125 pounds.

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He said they were smooth-shaved and appeared to resemble those of Italian descent.

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He does not recall hearing them speak to each other or to him.

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Simonton said he looked into the interior of the spaceship and said it was the color of black

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wrought iron.

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He said he could see several instrument panels and he could hear a slow whining sound, like

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the hum of a generator.

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It appeared one of the men in the ship was frying food on a flameless grill, and Simonton said

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he motioned to indicate an interest in their food.

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He said one of them, dressed in black, but with a narrow red trim along the trouser, handed

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him three of the small cakes, which he has shown to authorities in Eagle River, which he

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apparently also ate.

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He ate one, which is insane.

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That's an insane thing to do.

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You know, we're told at a young age not to take candies from a stranger, but I have yet

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to be told not to eat pancakes from an alien.

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So this is something interesting that I didn't know before either.

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He recalls along the edge of the saucer.

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He noted exhaust pipes about six or seven inches in diameter.

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Now, the rest of the articles echo roughly the same story.

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It said that this story was told to attorney Calvin A. Burton of Villas County and that Burton

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eventually said that Simonton sounded sincere.

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Now, how sincere did Simon sound?

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Well, here's an interview of Simonton talking about the interaction.

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Have a look.

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Right here is where this flying saucer, this UFO landed.

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Right here about where I'm standing.

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And it was a big, huge thing.

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And I wondered what the heck it was.

[0:21:44 - 0:21:46] ▶

I was in my kitchen having a bite of lunch.

[0:21:46 - 0:21:49] ▶

And I turned around, put the dishes in the sink, and I looked out the window.

[0:21:50 - 0:21:54] ▶

And that's when I first saw this thing coming straight down, just like an elevator.

[0:21:54 - 0:21:58] ▶

And first I thought the roof went off of my house.

[0:21:59 - 0:22:03] ▶

And I thought, no, the roof is green and this is bright.

[0:22:03 - 0:22:05] ▶

What the heck is it?

[0:22:05 - 0:22:06] ▶

So I rushed out to see what it was.

[0:22:06 - 0:22:09] ▶

And by that time, there was a hatchway opening up in the top of it, just like the trunk of

[0:22:09 - 0:22:14] ▶

your car.

[0:22:14 - 0:22:14] ▶

And then there stood a little man.

[0:22:15 - 0:22:17] ▶

I say a little man, about five foot tall, holding up a jug or a container.

[0:22:17 - 0:22:23] ▶

And he motioned, he wanted a drink.

[0:22:24 - 0:22:26] ▶

He motioned for water.

[0:22:26 - 0:22:27] ▶

So I walked up to him to get this jug.

[0:22:27 - 0:22:30] ▶

And I looked at his eyes, and they were so penetrating that I had to look away.

[0:22:31 - 0:22:35] ▶

So I went to the basement to get this water.

[0:22:36 - 0:22:39] ▶

And I thought, well, they want water, so I'll take it up to them and see what happens.

[0:22:39 - 0:22:44] ▶

And with that, I brought the water up.

[0:22:45 - 0:22:47] ▶

And he was looking at me when I first came out of the basement.

[0:22:47 - 0:22:49] ▶

But I didn't look at his face until I got right up to him.

[0:22:50 - 0:22:53] ▶

And then I looked up, and I handed the jug up with both hands.

[0:22:53 - 0:22:56] ▶

And I had that same look in his eyes, sort of a penetrating look.

[0:22:56 - 0:23:00] ▶

And when he took the water, I bounced myself with this hand against the machine.

[0:23:01 - 0:23:08] ▶

And I stepped back a few steps.

[0:23:08 - 0:23:10] ▶

And then, with that, he set the jug down.

[0:23:10 - 0:23:16] ▶

And he gave me a salute with the back of his hand, a gesture of thanks, I presume.

[0:23:16 - 0:23:20] ▶

And then, well, I gave him a salute.

[0:23:21 - 0:23:23] ▶

What am I going to do?

[0:23:24 - 0:23:25] ▶

So I noticed this little man, the same size of a man, right beside the right side of the hatchway,

[0:23:25 - 0:23:33] ▶

cooking these pancakes, which I have one here yet.

[0:23:33 - 0:23:37] ▶

He was frying these pancakes.

[0:23:37 - 0:23:42] ▶

And I pointed to him and made a gesture like eating.

[0:23:43 - 0:23:48] ▶

I thought maybe I'd get a conversation out of him.

[0:23:48 - 0:23:50] ▶

Nobody was saying anything.

[0:23:50 - 0:23:52] ▶

But he didn't say a word.

[0:23:52 - 0:23:56] ▶

He just reached over, and he got a handful of them, four of them, and he handed them down to me.

[0:23:56 - 0:24:00] ▶

And they were hot and greasy.

[0:24:00 - 0:24:02] ▶

And this man cooking these pancakes, it was on a square grill-like concern.

[0:24:03 - 0:24:09] ▶

I couldn't see any flame, but it seemed to be very hot.

[0:24:10 - 0:24:12] ▶

There was smoke coming from it.

[0:24:12 - 0:24:13] ▶

And if that was their food, God help them, because I took a bite of one of them,

[0:24:14 - 0:24:20] ▶

and it tasted like a piece of cardboard.

[0:24:20 - 0:24:22] ▶

And if that's what they lived on, no wonder they're small.

[0:24:23 - 0:24:26] ▶

And with that, he reached up, and he closed his hatch with a heavy thud click-like latch.

[0:24:26 - 0:24:32] ▶

And you couldn't a bit more see where that hatch was, and you could see a hole in my hand.

[0:24:32 - 0:24:37] ▶

And with that, the thing started to raise, just like it came down.

[0:24:38 - 0:24:42] ▶

Everything was time-perfect.

[0:24:42 - 0:24:44] ▶

It went up about 20 feet.

[0:24:44 - 0:24:45] ▶

It tilted a 45-degree straight south and shot off.

[0:24:46 - 0:24:50] ▶

And within two or three seconds, it was out of sight.

[0:24:50 - 0:24:53] ▶

Well, there I stood in the driveway with a handful of greasy pancakes in my mouth open,

[0:24:53 - 0:24:58] ▶

wondering what the heck I saw.

[0:24:59 - 0:25:00] ▶

What had happened?

[0:25:00 - 0:25:01] ▶

Interesting to hear him describe the jug that looked like a trophy of some kind,

[0:25:01 - 0:25:05] ▶

like one of those generic trophies.

[0:25:05 - 0:25:08] ▶

And also that he wasn't afraid.

[0:25:09 - 0:25:11] ▶

He says there was nothing to be afraid of.

[0:25:12 - 0:25:15] ▶

That he was a deputy sheriff, and he lives right, and he doesn't get scared.

[0:25:15 - 0:25:19] ▶

Here's where it gets interesting.

[0:25:20 - 0:25:21] ▶

He says, so I walked up to him to get this jug, and I looked at his eyes.

[0:25:21 - 0:25:24] ▶

They were so penetrating that I had to look away.

[0:25:25 - 0:25:28] ▶

When I brought the water up, he was looking at me when I came out of the basement.

[0:25:29 - 0:25:32] ▶

I didn't look at his face until I got right up to him.

[0:25:32 - 0:25:34] ▶

Then I looked up and handed the jug with both hands.

[0:25:35 - 0:25:37] ▶

He had some sort of penetrating look in his eyes.

[0:25:38 - 0:25:41] ▶

So the interesting thing here is the penetrating look in his eyes.

[0:25:41 - 0:25:47] ▶

You know, he goes from saying that he wasn't scared, he's not scared of anything, to I couldn't look this guy in the eye.

[0:25:47 - 0:25:53] ▶

Because it was so penetrating.

[0:25:54 - 0:25:56] ▶

Maybe just like so many other cases of extraterrestrial encounters, the eyes play a big factor in how telepathy is used.

[0:25:56 - 0:26:07] ▶

We often hear of the greys interacting with certain experiencers or abductees.

[0:26:07 - 0:26:13] ▶

And they say that when they look in the eyes, they're kind of locked in and fixed in and sort of hypnotized.

[0:26:13 - 0:26:20] ▶

Even Dan Barish says that the eyes are used to sort of help the pumping or flowing of endorphins into your own body.

[0:26:20 - 0:26:28] ▶

And it feels like you're falling into them.

[0:26:28 - 0:26:30] ▶

So it looked like a large pupil, basically.

[0:26:30 - 0:26:34] ▶

When you look into his eyes, you feel like you're going to fall into his eyes forever.

[0:26:34 - 0:26:37] ▶

And I think that probably had something to do with the telepathic nature of his mental structure.

[0:26:39 - 0:26:45] ▶

So maybe there is something universal among all these species in which you need eye contact in order for communication to happen.

[0:26:45 - 0:26:53] ▶

And since Joe wasn't going to let that happen, he instead opted for sign language, which seemed to work out in his favor anyways.

[0:26:53 - 0:27:01] ▶

And he does describe them as Italian.

[0:27:01 - 0:27:03] ▶

So I think it's fun that they talk with their hands.

[0:27:03 - 0:27:05] ▶

Stranger and stranger this story.

[0:27:06 - 0:27:09] ▶

So this story hits the news.

[0:27:09 - 0:27:12] ▶

It goes nationwide.

[0:27:12 - 0:27:14] ▶

It goes bananas.

[0:27:14 - 0:27:15] ▶

Meanwhile, Judge Carter took the pancakes and sent them out for analysis to NICAP.

[0:27:15 - 0:27:24] ▶

Now, NICAP has to do damage control.

[0:27:24 - 0:27:27] ▶

They have a reputation to maintain.

[0:27:27 - 0:27:28] ▶

So they had to put out some of the fires during this time.

[0:27:29 - 0:27:32] ▶

The press was also clawing and chomping at the bit because people were really interested about this story.

[0:27:33 - 0:27:40] ▶

This was just a fascinating, different take.

[0:27:40 - 0:27:42] ▶

You know, this is a really prominent time for UFO sightings and alien encounters.

[0:27:42 - 0:27:47] ▶

But this one, you know, kind of takes the cake.

[0:27:47 - 0:27:50] ▶

No pun intended.

[0:27:50 - 0:27:51] ▶

So among all of the press's interests, here's just a list of telephone notes from Bob Shogan, the writer of Newsweek, who called.

[0:27:51 - 0:27:59] ▶

You had news director from WIKB in Iron City.

[0:27:59 - 0:28:03] ▶

Bud Meyer from Minneapolis, KSTP.

[0:28:03 - 0:28:05] ▶

George Popovich from Akron.

[0:28:05 - 0:28:08] ▶

And these are all different press organizations that were trying to get the results at the time.

[0:28:09 - 0:28:14] ▶

Meanwhile, Professor Charles Maney, who was a prominent UFO researcher and physicist at the time.

[0:28:14 - 0:28:22] ▶

He also served as president of the Borderland Sciences Research Association, or BSRA, which was a group that studied fringe sciences and metaphysics and other unexplained phenomena at the time.

[0:28:22 - 0:28:35] ▶

But he was a board member of NICAP.

[0:28:35 - 0:28:38] ▶

So one pancake goes to local authorities, which ends up eventually going to the Air Force.

[0:28:38 - 0:28:45] ▶

One was consumed by Joe and the other was sent to Charles Maney of NICAP and BSRA.

[0:28:45 - 0:28:53] ▶

So Charles Maney, who is going to be testing this, gets orders from NICAP to literally get rid of this thing.

[0:28:53 - 0:29:01] ▶

This thing is causing us a nightmare.

[0:29:01 - 0:29:02] ▶

The press is making a mockery of this.

[0:29:03 - 0:29:05] ▶

And, you know, we're trying to do some serious work here.

[0:29:05 - 0:29:08] ▶

We're not trying to, you know, become some ridiculous organization that tests intergalactic pancakes.

[0:29:08 - 0:29:14] ▶

NICAP urges Charles Maney to write a letter and send the sample to the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration.

[0:29:15 - 0:29:23] ▶

Dear Charles, the enclosed artifact is allegedly an extraterrestrial pancake.

[0:29:23 - 0:29:28] ▶

What next?

[0:29:29 - 0:29:29] ▶

The minute I read the cover letter, I knew this story would be an ideal setup for the newswires,

[0:29:30 - 0:29:35] ▶

who just love to carry the most ridiculous of contactee stories.

[0:29:35 - 0:29:40] ▶

My fears were justified because within an hour, UPI was on the phone.

[0:29:40 - 0:29:44] ▶

Their Chicago bureau had notified them that the pancake had been sent to us for analysis and they wanted our reaction.

[0:29:44 - 0:29:50] ▶

I told them NICAP was highly skeptical due to the nature of the report, but that we would make an attempt to analyze it and check up on the report.

[0:29:50 - 0:29:59] ▶

I emphasize that our case rested on serious reports from many competent observers.

[0:30:00 - 0:30:05] ▶

It remains to be seen what kind of publicity will result.

[0:30:06 - 0:30:08] ▶

Needless to say, we want no publicity based on such a case unless and until we are able to state something concrete about the artifact and the originator of the report.

[0:30:09 - 0:30:20] ▶

Unfortunately, we have no subcommittee in the Eagle River area and the nature of the report gave me pause in regard to who might analyze the substance.

[0:30:20 - 0:30:30] ▶

Perhaps it would be better to ignore the case, but we want to be objective and the claim apparently is made in all seriousness.

[0:30:30 - 0:30:37] ▶

Could you or Professor Meltz analyze it privately for us?

[0:30:38 - 0:30:42] ▶

As mentioned here, the UPI being the press organization, I guess, is just nonstop hammering these guys, being like, hey, what's going on with their pancake?

[0:30:42 - 0:31:05] ▶

So that is April 25th.

[0:31:05 - 0:31:07] ▶

Okay.

[0:31:07 - 0:31:07] ▶

But now, folks, here's where the government gets involved.

[0:31:08 - 0:31:12] ▶

You see, Dr. J. Allen Hynek, renowned astrophysicist and Project Blue Book consultant,

[0:31:13 - 0:31:20] ▶

is called in to see if he can substantiate this case or to see if these claims are at all verifiable.

[0:31:21 - 0:31:28] ▶

So Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Major Robert Friend interviewed Simonton on site, photographed the driveway, collected soil and vegetation,

[0:31:28 - 0:31:36] ▶

and requested the pancake sample from NICAP for government testing.

[0:31:37 - 0:31:41] ▶

We shall get into Dr. J. Allen Hynek's lengthy report a little bit later as it really puts a nice ribbon on all of this.

[0:31:41 - 0:31:52] ▶

But prior to that, Dr. J. Allen Hynek also visits the Lorbecki Farm on April 27th.

[0:31:52 - 0:32:01] ▶

So Brent Lorbecki, Tom Hunt, Mrs. Lorbecki, and Adrian Lorbecki were all witnesses.

[0:32:01 - 0:32:08] ▶

This is from J. Allen Hynek.

[0:32:08 - 0:32:10] ▶

We are at the Tony Lorbecki Farm residence about 12 miles east of Eagle River, where another saucer sighting was reported.

[0:32:10 - 0:32:17] ▶

Thursday, April 27th. The first person to witness the second sighting is Tom Hunt. Is that correct?

[0:32:17 - 0:32:24] ▶

Yes, sir.

[0:32:24 - 0:32:25] ▶

And how old are you?

[0:32:25 - 0:32:26] ▶

17, sir.

[0:32:27 - 0:32:27] ▶

Can you tell us what you saw?

[0:32:28 - 0:32:29] ▶

At first, I didn't realize it was a flying saucer or an unidentified object. I thought it was a plane.

[0:32:30 - 0:32:35] ▶

I was just looking at the moon.

[0:32:36 - 0:32:37] ▶

And what time of day was this?

[0:32:38 - 0:32:39] ▶

This was about 25 or 20 till 7.

[0:32:40 - 0:32:42] ▶

And I noticed it had a funny shape to it.

[0:32:43 - 0:32:45] ▶

Was that during the evening?

[0:32:45 - 0:32:47] ▶

Yes, during the evening.

[0:32:47 - 0:32:49] ▶

And I told Brent, and he looked.

[0:32:49 - 0:32:51] ▶

He didn't believe me at first, and he wasn't going to look.

[0:32:52 - 0:32:54] ▶

I told him to look.

[0:32:55 - 0:32:56] ▶

I jumped out of the car to look, and he looked too.

[0:32:56 - 0:32:58] ▶

Then he ran into the house and told his mother and brother and sister.

[0:32:59 - 0:33:02] ▶

When Tom reported this sighting to you, Brent, what was your first reaction?

[0:33:02 - 0:33:05] ▶

Well, we were sitting in the car at first, and when he first said,

[0:33:06 - 0:33:09] ▶

Brent, you want to see a flying saucer?

[0:33:09 - 0:33:11] ▶

And I said, you're crazy.

[0:33:11 - 0:33:13] ▶

And he says, I ain't kidding you, Brent.

[0:33:13 - 0:33:15] ▶

I jumped out of the car and looked, and sure enough, I couldn't believe my own eyes.

[0:33:16 - 0:33:20] ▶

But there it was, right before me.

[0:33:20 - 0:33:22] ▶

Can you describe what it looked like?

[0:33:23 - 0:33:25] ▶

Oh, it was a big, discular object, probably between 40 and 50 feet in diameter,

[0:33:25 - 0:33:31] ▶

and around 15 feet high, I would say.

[0:33:31 - 0:33:34] ▶

And it was like if you would put two pie plates together.

[0:33:34 - 0:33:38] ▶

That is roughly what it looked like.

[0:33:38 - 0:33:40] ▶

It had more of a rounded top.

[0:33:40 - 0:33:43] ▶

What direction did it seem to be flying in?

[0:33:43 - 0:33:45] ▶

Well, it was flying north to south.

[0:33:46 - 0:33:47] ▶

Can you tell me how high it was?

[0:33:48 - 0:33:50] ▶

Any way of estimating that?

[0:33:50 - 0:33:51] ▶

Oh, I would say probably 4,000 or 5,000 feet high.

[0:33:51 - 0:33:54] ▶

Are you familiar with other type of flying objects?

[0:33:55 - 0:33:58] ▶

Helicopters?

[0:33:58 - 0:33:59] ▶

Satellites?

[0:33:59 - 0:33:59] ▶

You have seen all of these in the air before.

[0:34:00 - 0:34:02] ▶

Yes, I have seen them.

[0:34:03 - 0:34:04] ▶

And this object definitely was not an object of this type.

[0:34:05 - 0:34:08] ▶

No, it wasn't, sir.

[0:34:09 - 0:34:09] ▶

What did you do then after you and Tom had gotten out of the car and were watching this object?

[0:34:10 - 0:34:15] ▶

Then you called your family out, is that correct?

[0:34:15 - 0:34:17] ▶

That is true.

[0:34:18 - 0:34:19] ▶

We watched it for a short period of time.

[0:34:19 - 0:34:21] ▶

And I ran into the house and said,

[0:34:21 - 0:34:23] ▶

Ma, you want to see a flying saucer?

[0:34:23 - 0:34:25] ▶

She just sort of snickered at me.

[0:34:25 - 0:34:27] ▶

She thought I was joking.

[0:34:28 - 0:34:28] ▶

I says, I'm not kidding, Ma.

[0:34:29 - 0:34:31] ▶

I says, come to the window.

[0:34:32 - 0:34:34] ▶

She came over by the window and looked out and she agreed.

[0:34:34 - 0:34:38] ▶

Well, was it a joke, Mrs. Lorbecki?

[0:34:39 - 0:34:42] ▶

No, it wasn't a joke.

[0:34:43 - 0:34:44] ▶

I saw it in the sky, just as plain as the boys described it.

[0:34:45 - 0:34:48] ▶

Could you describe it in your own words for us?

[0:34:49 - 0:34:51] ▶

Well, in my own words, I would say that it was the first words I said were that it was as Joe Symington had seen it in Eagle River.

[0:34:51 - 0:35:00] ▶

He is the plumber in Eagle River who reported that he even visited with the inhabitants of the saucer.

[0:35:00 - 0:35:04] ▶

That is right.

[0:35:04 - 0:35:05] ▶

Are you familiar with Joe Symington?

[0:35:06 - 0:35:07] ▶

Have you known him before?

[0:35:08 - 0:35:09] ▶

No, I have never known him.

[0:35:09 - 0:35:11] ▶

I see.

[0:35:12 - 0:35:12] ▶

When Joe first reported that he had seen a flying saucer, that he had talked with the inhabitants,

[0:35:13 - 0:35:17] ▶

what was your reaction when you heard that story?

[0:35:17 - 0:35:20] ▶

Well, I didn't believe it.

[0:35:20 - 0:35:23] ▶

How about now?

[0:35:25 - 0:35:26] ▶

Well, I believe it more so, yes, of course.

[0:35:26 - 0:35:28] ▶

When did you see this flying object, Adrian?

[0:35:29 - 0:35:32] ▶

I was just in the house and Brent came in and told us to look out of the window.

[0:35:32 - 0:35:36] ▶

It was maybe 20 till 7 when I looked out the window.

[0:35:36 - 0:35:39] ▶

And what did you see?

[0:35:40 - 0:35:41] ▶

Well, it seemed to me just like the guy in Eagle River described it.

[0:35:41 - 0:35:45] ▶

Like two bowls or pie plates put together.

[0:35:45 - 0:35:48] ▶

It seemed to me the same on top as it was on the bottom.

[0:35:48 - 0:35:51] ▶

Could you tell how fast it was going?

[0:35:52 - 0:35:53] ▶

How long did you sight it in the sky?

[0:35:53 - 0:35:55] ▶

Well, I saw it for maybe two or three minutes.

[0:35:56 - 0:35:59] ▶

That's all.

[0:35:59 - 0:36:00] ▶

Brent, have any military authorities or governmental agencies questioned you about this sighting?

[0:36:01 - 0:36:05] ▶

No, they haven't.

[0:36:06 - 0:36:07] ▶

There has been no attempt made to get in touch with you?

[0:36:07 - 0:36:09] ▶

No, sir.

[0:36:10 - 0:36:10] ▶

Are any of you people familiar with Judge Carter, the judge in Eagle River?

[0:36:10 - 0:36:14] ▶

Tom, how well do you know him?

[0:36:15 - 0:36:17] ▶

Have you ever heard him speak on the subject of flying saucers?

[0:36:17 - 0:36:19] ▶

No.

[0:36:20 - 0:36:20] ▶

I have never heard him speak on the subject of flying saucers.

[0:36:21 - 0:36:24] ▶

I understand there is an agency or a society within Eagle River which concerns itself with

[0:36:24 - 0:36:28] ▶

the study of unidentified flying objects.

[0:36:28 - 0:36:30] ▶

Are any of you people familiar with this organization or members of it, perhaps?

[0:36:31 - 0:36:34] ▶

No, we aren't.

[0:36:34 - 0:36:36] ▶

So that was the Lorbecki's farmland in Eagle River just 10 days after.

[0:36:37 - 0:36:43] ▶

Another piece of corroborating evidence.

[0:36:44 - 0:36:46] ▶

The plot, folks, thickens.

[0:36:47 - 0:36:48] ▶

Now we fast forward a few weeks.

[0:36:48 - 0:36:50] ▶

This is on April 27th.

[0:36:50 - 0:36:52] ▶

And remember, we will eventually get to Dr. J. Allen Hynek's report.

[0:36:52 - 0:36:57] ▶

And I'll save that for a little bit later.

[0:36:57 - 0:36:58] ▶

Right after this testimony, we have a letter on April 29th from, again, Charles Maney in

[0:36:58 - 0:37:07] ▶

the Department of Physics in Ohio writing yet another letter to the FDA.

[0:37:07 - 0:37:13] ▶

And he's saying here, since Professor Meltz, who is the person who should have taken the

[0:37:13 - 0:37:20] ▶

sample, is in the hospital and cannot possibly be in a position to return to the laboratory

[0:37:20 - 0:37:25] ▶

for some time, I am regrettably returning to you all of this material on the Eagle River

[0:37:25 - 0:37:31] ▶

case.

[0:37:31 - 0:37:32] ▶

He says there is a remote possibility that this case is genuine and that the cake could

[0:37:32 - 0:37:36] ▶

be divided into two or three parts for analysis.

[0:37:36 - 0:37:38] ▶

He also says that it appears to be getting moldy rather rapidly within the last few hours.

[0:37:39 - 0:37:43] ▶

We now have a letter on May 2nd from Major Kehoe at NICAP to Alexander Mabain.

[0:37:43 - 0:37:49] ▶

Alexander is the chemist who will take care of the analysis of a portion of the pancake.

[0:37:49 - 0:37:56] ▶

Major Kehoe says, Dear Lex, enclosed is one slightly moldy extraterrestrial pancake.

[0:37:56 - 0:38:02] ▶

So what else is new?

[0:38:02 - 0:38:03] ▶

I recommend immediate refrigeration of the artifact before reading further.

[0:38:04 - 0:38:08] ▶

In case you have not heard of this contactee case, I'm enclosing the original letter from

[0:38:08 - 0:38:13] ▶

Judge Carter and the Newswire story.

[0:38:13 - 0:38:16] ▶

We sent the pancake to Professor Maney, hoping Professor Meltz could analyze it, but Meltz

[0:38:16 - 0:38:23] ▶

has been hospitalized and Professor Maney suggested you.

[0:38:23 - 0:38:26] ▶

Can you do anything with it?

[0:38:26 - 0:38:27] ▶

Any analysis you could conduct discreetly would be appreciated.

[0:38:28 - 0:38:32] ▶

This case has caused a furor for the following reasons.

[0:38:32 - 0:38:35] ▶

Simonton is well known in the community and local people believe him.

[0:38:35 - 0:38:39] ▶

He is backed by Judge Carter.

[0:38:39 - 0:38:41] ▶

Heineck flew up at the request of ATIC and interviewed Simonton.

[0:38:41 - 0:38:46] ▶

Other sightings in the area within a few days, two Air Force B-47s crashed in the area after

[0:38:46 - 0:38:54] ▶

reporting strange balls of fire.

[0:38:54 - 0:38:57] ▶

At first, we were saying that since the analysis was requested, we would do it, but we dissociated

[0:38:57 - 0:39:02] ▶

ourselves from the contactees and expressed strong skepticism due to the past record of similar

[0:39:02 - 0:39:09] ▶

cases.

[0:39:09 - 0:39:11] ▶

Then, AP, UPI, Newsweek, etc. started clamoring for information and the analysis report.

[0:39:11 - 0:39:15] ▶

Now we are saying that the incident is receiving attention all out of proportion to its importance,

[0:39:15 - 0:39:21] ▶

that our case rests on well-substantiated reports of an altogether different type,

[0:39:21 - 0:39:26] ▶

and that very likely we will have nothing further to say on the matter, even though we will accumulate

[0:39:26 - 0:39:31] ▶

information on the case as time permits.

[0:39:31 - 0:39:34] ▶

So this cake is being bounced around.

[0:39:34 - 0:39:36] ▶

It is being handed person-to-person, department-to-department.

[0:39:37 - 0:39:40] ▶

It is constantly with the mail carrier.

[0:39:40 - 0:39:42] ▶

But right now, we fast forward to the 8th of May, because now we have Carter's second letter

[0:39:43 - 0:39:49] ▶

to NICAP.

[0:39:49 - 0:39:50] ▶

This is from Frank W. Carter, the county judge at Eagle River in Wisconsin.

[0:39:51 - 0:39:57] ▶

And this is a letter to Major Donald E. Kehoe, director of NICAP in Washington.

[0:39:57 - 0:40:02] ▶

Dear Sir, regarding Joe Simonton sightings Tuesday, April 18, 1961.

[0:40:03 - 0:40:08] ▶

On Friday, April 21, 1961, I mailed you a letter in reference to an alleged sighting of a UFO

[0:40:09 - 0:40:14] ▶

here on the Joe Simonton property four miles west of Eagle River, Wisconsin, and also included

[0:40:14 - 0:40:20] ▶

therein one of the alleged pancakes that said Simonton claimed he received from three five-foot

[0:40:20 - 0:40:28] ▶

men or occupants of said space machine.

[0:40:28 - 0:40:30] ▶

I mailed it to you for analysis.

[0:40:31 - 0:40:33] ▶

I have had no acknowledgement of the contents as yet.

[0:40:33 - 0:40:37] ▶

The metropolitan newspapers all over the country in the Midwest, as well as TV stations,

[0:40:37 - 0:40:42] ▶

are stating definitely that you were returning the cake unanalyzed.

[0:40:42 - 0:40:47] ▶

Is this true?

[0:40:48 - 0:40:48] ▶

In one way, I wouldn't blame you because the publicity this case has aroused has made me

[0:40:48 - 0:40:53] ▶

tired of answering phones, letters, etc.

[0:40:53 - 0:40:55] ▶

One day, alone, I had six different metropolitan newspapers telephone me and take time answering

[0:40:56 - 0:41:02] ▶

their many questions.

[0:41:02 - 0:41:03] ▶

And TV stations have come here, as well as UFO fans, as well as writing from all over the

[0:41:03 - 0:41:09] ▶

world.

[0:41:09 - 0:41:09] ▶

One wrote Simonton today from Australia, and many of them do not even enclose a stamp.

[0:41:10 - 0:41:15] ▶

They expect Joe to drop everything and answer their many questions.

[0:41:15 - 0:41:18] ▶

They all wanted to know my personal opinion, and I replied, I am waiting for the jury to

[0:41:18 - 0:41:24] ▶

bring in their verdict.

[0:41:24 - 0:41:25] ▶

And then I would comment.

[0:41:26 - 0:41:27] ▶

Meaning, the report on the analysis.

[0:41:28 - 0:41:30] ▶

You and I have not believed in these so-called contact stories, and here was an opportunity to

[0:41:31 - 0:41:35] ▶

actually test one of them.

[0:41:35 - 0:41:37] ▶

Was this a hoax?

[0:41:37 - 0:41:38] ▶

Or was it legitimate?

[0:41:39 - 0:41:39] ▶

The analysis might have told the tale.

[0:41:39 - 0:41:42] ▶

Who knows?

[0:41:42 - 0:41:42] ▶

Hold the cake longer, and why not analyze it?

[0:41:43 - 0:41:45] ▶

Because you represent the NICAP as a national investigating committee.

[0:41:45 - 0:41:49] ▶

Do you really mean this?

[0:41:50 - 0:41:51] ▶

Or is this too a hoax?

[0:41:51 - 0:41:53] ▶

Here's a chance to investigate one specific alleged contact sighting with a real or alleged

[0:41:53 - 0:41:58] ▶

exhibit, other than a mere sighting.

[0:41:58 - 0:42:01] ▶

But if you do refuse to analyze it, then return same, and I'll send it to our University of

[0:42:01 - 0:42:07] ▶

Wisconsin for analysis.

[0:42:07 - 0:42:08] ▶

If analyzed, I shall remit my $5 and will be proud to renew member.

[0:42:08 - 0:42:14] ▶

But if not analyzed, then why should I renew?

[0:42:15 - 0:42:18] ▶

Oh, I see.

[0:42:18 - 0:42:19] ▶

So it seems like Frank Carter is a member, at least, or some type of subscriber to NICAP,

[0:42:19 - 0:42:25] ▶

and pays NICAP to, I guess, get information.

[0:42:25 - 0:42:29] ▶

I'm not entirely sure.

[0:42:29 - 0:42:30] ▶

But we can clearly hear the frustration in the tone by Judge Carter, and rightfully so.

[0:42:30 - 0:42:37] ▶

You know, Judge Carter sent it in confidence to NICAP.

[0:42:37 - 0:42:40] ▶

NICAP then sends it to, you know, the FDA, trying to wash their hands clean of this.

[0:42:40 - 0:42:45] ▶

We now have, on May 9th, the reply from NICAP to Judge Frank Carter.

[0:42:46 - 0:42:53] ▶

And it says here,

[0:42:53 - 0:42:54] ▶

Dear Judge Carter, thank you for your letter of May 7th regarding...

[0:42:54 - 0:42:57] ▶

Oh, May 7th.

[0:42:58 - 0:42:58] ▶

Okay, not May 8th.

[0:42:58 - 0:43:00] ▶

Regarding the claims of Mr. Joe Simonton, we did receive the cake, much to our surprise,

[0:43:00 - 0:43:05] ▶

without any advance notice that you had announced this to the press.

[0:43:05 - 0:43:09] ▶

Ever since, we too have been plagued by phone calls, and it has eaten into our valuable time

[0:43:09 - 0:43:14] ▶

so much that we were forced to make no further comment publicly.

[0:43:14 - 0:43:18] ▶

I should like to explain a few things to you with the understanding that this is a privileged communication for your private information only.

[0:43:18 - 0:43:24] ▶

In view of the past history of so-called contactee claims, and the subsequent exposure of many of them as frauds,

[0:43:24 - 0:43:31] ▶

we can only adopt a position of extreme skepticism in the present case.

[0:43:31 - 0:43:35] ▶

Mr. Simonton is telling the complete truth.

[0:43:35 - 0:43:37] ▶

It is unfortunate that he will suffer for the sins of previous contactee claimants.

[0:43:38 - 0:43:42] ▶

You have put us on the spot somewhat by announcing before consulting us that we would analyze the cake and announce the results publicly.

[0:43:42 - 0:43:50] ▶

In effect, it seems you expected that we would accept Mr. Simonton's story at face value and be willing to link ourselves publicly with it.

[0:43:50 - 0:43:57] ▶

Again, in view of the past history of such claims, this would make us appear uncritical indeed.

[0:43:57 - 0:44:03] ▶

We are engaged in very important liaison, and we do not propose to compromise this work for the sake of an unproven and, you must admit, fantastic-sounding claim.

[0:44:03 - 0:44:14] ▶

Accordingly, we do not wish to have any further publicity in connection with this claim unless strong supporting evidence is forthcoming.

[0:44:14 - 0:44:22] ▶

It is extremely doubtful that analysis of an apparently ordinary pancake would prove anything at all.

[0:44:22 - 0:44:27] ▶

To begin with, and to announce negative or neutral results would only make us look like fools for bothering with it in the first place.

[0:44:28 - 0:44:35] ▶

However, because we realize you are serious about your part in this case, we have arranged for an analysis by a competent chemist who said he would send a report to you in his own name.

[0:44:35 - 0:44:45] ▶

Again, I stress that this analysis is being done only as a favor to you by a private party at our request.

[0:44:45 - 0:44:54] ▶

We are very dubious of the whole affair, and when the analysis is made, we do not wish to be named in connection with it.

[0:44:55 - 0:45:01] ▶

One good reason for our attitude is the type of news reporting you quote as saying, we are returning the cake.

[0:45:02 - 0:45:09] ▶

I have been interviewed by several newsmen about this, and I stated only that we would have no further comment on it and would gather evidence as time permits, but that we intend to continue concentrating on well-substantiated sightings by scientists, pilots, and other trained observers.

[0:45:09 - 0:45:24] ▶

The ludicrous nature of the story is ready-made for ridicule and distortion.

[0:45:25 - 0:45:29] ▶

It is also a rather incredible story, and it sums up two claimants in such cases to substantiate their stories, not for us to disprove them.

[0:45:29 - 0:45:39] ▶

We have heard about the effects on the chickens.

[0:45:39 - 0:45:42] ▶

This is also something that we didn't talk about.

[0:45:43 - 0:45:48] ▶

We'll get into this in a second.

[0:45:48 - 0:45:49] ▶

We have heard about the effects on the chickens and would like to have any written reports by health agents, etc., which might help to shed light on the story.

[0:45:49 - 0:45:56] ▶

If these effects can be documented, it would go a long way toward showing that something strange did happen on April 18.

[0:45:56 - 0:46:02] ▶

If, in the long run, there is no substantiation of any kind, and it comes down to a choice of accepting Mr. Simonton at his word or remaining skeptical, we shall remain skeptical.

[0:46:03 - 0:46:13] ▶

Only the strongest kind of evidence could ever convince critical people that such an incident really happened, and we deal only in things that we think we can prove.

[0:46:13 - 0:46:22] ▶

I trust that this will clarify our position.

[0:46:22 - 0:46:24] ▶

If not, I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.

[0:46:24 - 0:46:27] ▶

Sincerely yours, Richard Hall of NICAP.

[0:46:27 - 0:46:29] ▶

Ah, the famous chicken story.

[0:46:30 - 0:46:32] ▶

Okay, so the plot thickens yet again.

[0:46:32 - 0:46:34] ▶

Because on Thursday, May 4th, the Milwaukee Sentinel,

[0:46:35 - 0:46:38] ▶

again, in the heat of everyone wanting to know what the heck is going on with these pancakes,

[0:46:39 - 0:46:45] ▶

while the Milwaukee Sentinel followed up with Joe Simonton in an interview and reported this.

[0:46:45 - 0:46:51] ▶

Chickens dead after saucer visit.

[0:46:52 - 0:46:53] ▶

Report.

[0:46:54 - 0:46:54] ▶

On May 3rd, Joe Simonton, the plumber and chicken raiser, who said he contacted a flying saucer on April 18th,

[0:46:55 - 0:47:02] ▶

said Wednesday that his chickens have been ill and several have died since the saucer's visit.

[0:47:02 - 0:47:08] ▶

And, Simonon asked Vias County Sheriff John Schroeder to notify the Air Force about the chickens' deaths.

[0:47:08 - 0:47:15] ▶

The sheriff called the Antigua radar station but was told that the officers there doubted that the chicken deaths would be investigated.

[0:47:16 - 0:47:23] ▶

Simonton reported the visit by a saucer, which he said hovered a foot off the ground in his yard four days after it happened.

[0:47:23 - 0:47:31] ▶

He said he filled a water jug for the three-man crew and they gave him some little cakes in return.

[0:47:31 - 0:47:36] ▶

The cakes were sent to NICAP, but Simonton himself seemed inclined to let the story die.

[0:47:36 - 0:47:42] ▶

He told a reporter that he received so many letters concerning the visitation that it will take a long time to answer all of them.

[0:47:42 - 0:47:48] ▶

One of those letters, he said, came from Australia.

[0:47:48 - 0:47:50] ▶

So, weirder yet, apparently, this craft ended up killing his chickens.

[0:47:50 - 0:47:56] ▶

This is getting really complicated, but essentially, Charles Maney, who was the guy at NICAP who was told that he should look into it,

[0:47:56 - 0:48:07] ▶

he was getting just absolutely bombarded by press, sent one to the FDA.

[0:48:07 - 0:48:13] ▶

I think the FDA then had it, did their tests.

[0:48:13 - 0:48:16] ▶

It was then sent to Richard Hall, the secretary at NICAP.

[0:48:16 - 0:48:21] ▶

Richard then, fed up with Judge Carter, sends it to Alexander Mabane, the chemist and head of CSI or Civilian Saucer Intelligence in New York.

[0:48:21 - 0:48:29] ▶

He says the following,

[0:48:30 - 0:48:31] ▶

Dear Lex, in view of the strains and frustrations here while we are fighting for survival,

[0:48:31 - 0:48:36] ▶

I am amazed at how restrained my letter to Judge Carter is.

[0:48:36 - 0:48:40] ▶

My true feelings are that he is a stupid Claude.

[0:48:40 - 0:48:43] ▶

And if his last, long, ranting letter is any indication of his reasoning ability,

[0:48:43 - 0:48:49] ▶

I wonder how many innocent people reside in Wisconsin jails.

[0:48:49 - 0:48:53] ▶

Grr.

[0:48:54 - 0:48:54] ▶

I am enclosing his letter and my reply.

[0:48:54 - 0:48:58] ▶

He wants the cake returned.

[0:48:58 - 0:49:00] ▶

So, if you want to wash your hands of the whole affair, please return it to him or to me.

[0:49:01 - 0:49:05] ▶

To date, we don't have one single bit of first-hand evidence on this case aside from the cake.

[0:49:05 - 0:49:10] ▶

Even the people who went to Eagle River to investigate for us are mad at us.

[0:49:10 - 0:49:14] ▶

And other Wisconsin members who have no conception of the situation here are raking us over the coals for not making a big issue out of it.

[0:49:15 - 0:49:22] ▶

Our investigators, quote-unquote, have never been heard from.

[0:49:22 - 0:49:26] ▶

Maybe they suffer the same fate as Simonton's chickens.

[0:49:27 - 0:49:29] ▶

I am losing all patience with otherwise sensible members who,

[0:49:30 - 0:49:34] ▶

one, try to tell us what we should do in touchy situations, while, two, having no inkling of our handicaps.

[0:49:34 - 0:49:41] ▶

Part of the reason for the above outburst is that we know Ray Palmer and Judge Carter are planning a double-barreled assault on NICAP, Ree Simonton, yada, yada, yada.

[0:49:41 - 0:49:51] ▶

So, there is clearly a lot of frustration back and forth through all these science departments, all these chemists,

[0:49:51 - 0:49:57] ▶

all these unofficial and official channels.

[0:49:57 - 0:50:00] ▶

People are passing around the pancake phones ringing off the hooks.

[0:50:00 - 0:50:03] ▶

Pancake pandemonium is upon us.

[0:50:04 - 0:50:05] ▶

Also on June 29, 1961, this is a letter to Judge Carter from Richard Hall of the secretary of NICAP,

[0:50:06 - 0:50:17] ▶

CC'd Lex Mbain here.

[0:50:17 - 0:50:19] ▶

And he goes,

[0:50:19 - 0:50:21] ▶

I'm sorry to be slow about answering your letter of a few weeks ago inquiring about the alleged extraterrestrial artifact,

[0:50:21 - 0:50:27] ▶

but other matters of more basic importance to us, chiefly a fight for survival of NICAP, have taken priority.

[0:50:28 - 0:50:34] ▶

Since you and a few other NICAP members in Wisconsin doubt our judgment and motives in this matter,

[0:50:34 - 0:50:39] ▶

I will make no further attempted explanation of our policy.

[0:50:39 - 0:50:42] ▶

However, your efforts and those of the other members, in effect,

[0:50:42 - 0:50:45] ▶

have been directed towards preventing us from carrying out our usual policy in the case of contactee claims.

[0:50:45 - 0:50:51] ▶

Ordinarily, we do try to investigate them to the best of our ability,

[0:50:52 - 0:50:56] ▶

quietly without publicity unless something definite is determined.

[0:50:56 - 0:50:59] ▶

And polemics on such claims serve no useful purpose and in fact do a great deal of harm

[0:50:59 - 0:51:04] ▶

since they detract attention from well-established factual evidence.

[0:51:04 - 0:51:09] ▶

Since you and the others will not let us conduct this investigation in our own way,

[0:51:09 - 0:51:14] ▶

I am forwarding copies of the current correspondence to the scientist who has the artifact with the request that he return it to you.

[0:51:14 - 0:51:22] ▶

In the event that he is in the midst of an analysis, he may want to retain a small portion.

[0:51:22 - 0:51:27] ▶

This was being done at his own expense and it would be unfair to him to have to stop in the middle of any tests.

[0:51:27 - 0:51:34] ▶

At any rate, you will be hearing either directly from him or from me again shortly in regard to returning the sample.

[0:51:34 - 0:51:40] ▶

In closing, I request that you reread my letter of May 9.

[0:51:40 - 0:51:43] ▶

I also repeat my request for additional documentary evidence from health officials

[0:51:44 - 0:51:49] ▶

in regard to reported effects on Mr. Simonton's chickens.

[0:51:49 - 0:51:52] ▶

Sincerely yours, Richard Hall.

[0:51:53 - 0:51:55] ▶

Okay.

[0:51:55 - 0:51:56] ▶

Needless to say that this didn't go over well with the judge because the judge then writes an angry letter to Major Donald E. Kehoe saying,

[0:51:57 - 0:52:06] ▶

Dear Major, I now write you definitely to send me the name and address of the chemist in New York City.

[0:52:06 - 0:52:13] ▶

I believe you wrote me that you turned the Simonton pancake over to for chemical analysis.

[0:52:13 - 0:52:19] ▶

I sent this to you April 22, 1961 and still have had no word from him.

[0:52:19 - 0:52:26] ▶

I do not even know his name or address.

[0:52:26 - 0:52:29] ▶

Yours, Judge Frank Carter.

[0:52:30 - 0:52:33] ▶

All this kerfuffa over a pastry.

[0:52:33 - 0:52:35] ▶

The food did get analyzed, folks, and it was analyzed on June 8th.

[0:52:36 - 0:52:41] ▶

So a month before.

[0:52:41 - 0:52:42] ▶

Nobody was sent any of that.

[0:52:42 - 0:52:45] ▶

But this is from the Health, Education, and Welfare of the FDA on June 8th.

[0:52:45 - 0:52:50] ▶

So the FDA.

[0:52:50 - 0:52:51] ▶

And this was sent to Colonel Philip C. Evans at Aerospace Technical Intelligence Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force.

[0:52:52 - 0:52:59] ▶

We have completed our examination of the material submitted with your letter of May 5th.

[0:52:59 - 0:53:05] ▶

Microscopic analysis shows the presence of fat, starch, buckwheat hulls, wheat bran, and cybeam hulls.

[0:53:05 - 0:53:16] ▶

The material appears to be a portion of an ordinary pancake made predominantly of buckwheat.

[0:53:16 - 0:53:22] ▶

So this was then sent to Wright-Patterson, where, by the way, folks, it currently lives.

[0:53:22 - 0:53:30] ▶

The funniest little artifact on display in that entire museum, but arguably, for me, possibly the most interesting.

[0:53:30 - 0:53:37] ▶

So not only do we have the FDA saying that this was normal.

[0:53:40 - 0:53:46] ▶

Now we have Alexander Mbain's final report of the pancake after sending it off for isotopic analysis.

[0:53:46 - 0:53:54] ▶

Literally reaching out to, like, nuclear physicists and all sorts of scientists.

[0:53:55 - 0:54:00] ▶

This guy spent his own money on this.

[0:54:00 - 0:54:03] ▶

As you can see here, this is a $180 bill just to get this tested.

[0:54:03 - 0:54:08] ▶

Mbain, obviously really intrigued by this pancake, wanted to know what the deal was.

[0:54:08 - 0:54:14] ▶

He says,

[0:54:14 - 0:54:15] ▶

These pancakes were an instance of something exceedingly rare.

[0:54:15 - 0:54:18] ▶

Tangible physical evidence from a UFO, produced by an apparently credible witness.

[0:54:18 - 0:54:22] ▶

Any significant difference that might be detected between them and ordinary terrestrial pancakes

[0:54:23 - 0:54:27] ▶

would constitute strong concrete evidence not only for the truth of Mr. Simonton's story,

[0:54:27 - 0:54:33] ▶

but also for the general proposition that some UFOs are vessels of extraterrestrial origin

[0:54:33 - 0:54:39] ▶

operated by beings differing little in appearance and metabolism from the Caucasian race of Homo sapiens.

[0:54:39 - 0:54:46] ▶

The importance of examining the space pancakes for such differences needs no underlining.

[0:54:47 - 0:54:52] ▶

One of the pancakes was given by Mr. Simonton to agents of the official UFO research project of the Air Force,

[0:54:53 - 0:55:00] ▶

the Air Technical Intelligence Command, ATIC.

[0:55:00 - 0:55:04] ▶

CSI has seen no written report on ATIC's findings, but in a telephone conversation,

[0:55:05 - 0:55:10] ▶

we were informed by Major Friend, the current head of the project, that the following tests were made.

[0:55:10 - 0:55:16] ▶

1. Immediate examination for radioactivity detected no difference from ordinary ground-level samples.

[0:55:16 - 0:55:23] ▶

The significance of this was that an object arriving from the upper atmosphere or above

[0:55:23 - 0:55:28] ▶

acquires such radioactivity as a result of its exposure to the cosmic rays.

[0:55:28 - 0:55:33] ▶

This negative evidence, however, carries little weight,

[0:55:33 - 0:55:36] ▶

since any space-traveling vehicle of a superior humanoid culture

[0:55:36 - 0:55:40] ▶

would presumably be shielded against radiation for the protection of its occupants.

[0:55:40 - 0:55:45] ▶

2. Emission spectronomy revealed the same pattern of inorganic chemical elements

[0:55:46 - 0:55:53] ▶

as in ordinary terrestrial food grains.

[0:55:53 - 0:55:55] ▶

This evidence is also inconclusive.

[0:55:56 - 0:55:58] ▶

Because of the circumstance that the UFO occupants were described as completely humanoid,

[0:55:58 - 0:56:03] ▶

though somewhat short and swarthy,

[0:56:04 - 0:56:06] ▶

they could pass for Italians,

[0:56:06 - 0:56:08] ▶

breathing our atmosphere and moving under our gravity without discomfort.

[0:56:08 - 0:56:12] ▶

The chemical makeup of such beings,

[0:56:13 - 0:56:15] ▶

and consequently also their food plants,

[0:56:15 - 0:56:18] ▶

would be expected to differ very little from our own.

[0:56:18 - 0:56:21] ▶

In particular,

[0:56:21 - 0:56:22] ▶

they could hardly be expected to utilize elements completely foreign

[0:56:22 - 0:56:25] ▶

to the corresponding terrestrial lifeforms.

[0:56:25 - 0:56:27] ▶

3. Microscopic examination by food technologists of the Department of Health

[0:56:27 - 0:56:33] ▶

revealed the presence of buckwheat hulls.

[0:56:33 - 0:56:36] ▶

This is a most significant finding because the use in pancakes of this particular seed,

[0:56:36 - 0:56:41] ▶

buckwheat is not a grain,

[0:56:41 - 0:56:42] ▶

in the usual sense,

[0:56:43 - 0:56:44] ▶

is a peculiarity of certain areas of human civilization

[0:56:44 - 0:56:48] ▶

which one could hardly expect to be duplicated by the inhabitants of another planet.

[0:56:48 - 0:56:54] ▶

All that mitigates the force of this evidence for an earthly origin of the pancakes

[0:56:54 - 0:56:59] ▶

is a question as to the uncertainty with which the buckwheat hulls were identified.

[0:56:59 - 0:57:04] ▶

Since we have seen no evidence on this point,

[0:57:05 - 0:57:07] ▶

it is still possible to suppose that the identification might have been an error.

[0:57:08 - 0:57:13] ▶

The second pancake was sent by Judge Carter to NICAP in Washington,

[0:57:13 - 0:57:17] ▶

who immediately sent it to one of their scientific advisors, Dr. Charles Maney,

[0:57:17 - 0:57:21] ▶

professor of physics at Defiance College in Ohio.

[0:57:22 - 0:57:25] ▶

However, since Dr. Maney could find no one able to undertake the examination,

[0:57:25 - 0:57:29] ▶

he returned the specimen to NICAP.

[0:57:29 - 0:57:31] ▶

It was then sent to CSI of New York,

[0:57:31 - 0:57:33] ▶

and he gets a letter back saying,

[0:57:34 - 0:57:35] ▶

Dear Mr. Mabane, I am enclosing a graph,

[0:57:35 - 0:57:37] ▶

which I hope will supply the graphic illustrations of the results of our analysis.

[0:57:37 - 0:57:41] ▶

As you can see, it by no means exemplifies the epitome of draftmanship.

[0:57:41 - 0:57:45] ▶

The values shown on the graph are fairly close to average values

[0:57:45 - 0:57:48] ▶

for environmental carbon during the indicated times.

[0:57:48 - 0:57:51] ▶

The actual value for an organism may vary a few percent

[0:57:52 - 0:57:54] ▶

depending upon the geographical location,

[0:57:54 - 0:57:56] ▶

sources of carbon, and various other factors.

[0:57:56 - 0:57:59] ▶

None of these should produce any radical variation.

[0:57:59 - 0:58:02] ▶

So basically, this is just a chart showing like the isotopic ratios all seems normal.

[0:58:02 - 0:58:11] ▶

Here, we now have a letter on August 17th

[0:58:11 - 0:58:17] ▶

to Mr. Donald Kehoe from Austin LaMarche.

[0:58:17 - 0:58:24] ▶

Austin LaMarche is a concerned citizen and friend of Joe Simonton,

[0:58:24 - 0:58:28] ▶

and he writes,

[0:58:28 - 0:58:29] ▶

Dear Mr. Kehoe, on May question mark of this year,

[0:58:29 - 0:58:33] ▶

a good friend of mine, Joe Simonton of Eagle River, Wisconsin,

[0:58:33 - 0:58:36] ▶

sent you a pancake taken from a flying saucer.

[0:58:36 - 0:58:40] ▶

There is every reason to believe that this pancake

[0:58:40 - 0:58:43] ▶

was given to Mr. Simonton for a good reason.

[0:58:43 - 0:58:46] ▶

This pancake was sent to you for analysis,

[0:58:46 - 0:58:49] ▶

and none has been given.

[0:58:49 - 0:58:51] ▶

Please answer at your earliest convenience, Austin LaMarche.

[0:58:52 - 0:58:55] ▶

Well, Austin gets a return from Richard Hall,

[0:58:55 - 0:58:59] ▶

the secretary of NICAP, saying,

[0:58:59 - 0:59:01] ▶

Dear Mr. LaMarche, in your reply to your recent letter,

[0:59:01 - 0:59:03] ▶

the current UFO investigator has a story on the pancake analysis.

[0:59:04 - 0:59:07] ▶

The news reports on this were badly distorted.

[0:59:07 - 0:59:09] ▶

We have never called Mr. Simonton a liar or anything of the sort.

[0:59:09 - 0:59:14] ▶

We simply do not have enough evidence to warrant making an issue out of such a sensational case.

[0:59:14 - 0:59:19] ▶

It would be helpful to us in our evaluation

[0:59:19 - 0:59:22] ▶

if you would give us more information about your friend, Mr. Simonton.

[0:59:22 - 0:59:24] ▶

This would be kept confidential if you so request it.

[0:59:25 - 0:59:28] ▶

And that is the end of the back and forth

[0:59:28 - 0:59:31] ▶

of this complete debauchery regarding this pancake.

[0:59:31 - 0:59:37] ▶

We're now going to transition into J. Allen Hynek's report of this,

[0:59:37 - 0:59:43] ▶

and that's how we're going to end this story.

[0:59:43 - 0:59:45] ▶

So this is the project record card.

[0:59:45 - 0:59:48] ▶

So for Project Blue Book, Joe Simonton, Eagle River, Wisconsin.

[0:59:48 - 0:59:51] ▶

A ground visual, April 18th.

[0:59:52 - 0:59:55] ▶

It says photos or physical specimen?

[0:59:56 - 0:59:58] ▶

No.

[0:59:58 - 0:59:59] ▶

And then in parentheses, it says pancake.

[0:59:59 - 1:00:01] ▶

And the conclusion is that the only explanation was that this was a hallucination.

[1:00:02 - 1:00:08] ▶

So in the summary here, it says the object shaped like two soup bowls together

[1:00:09 - 1:00:13] ▶

as a round saucer configuration, approximately 30 feet in diameter, 12 feet thick at the center,

[1:00:13 - 1:00:18] ▶

tapering to one foot at the rim.

[1:00:18 - 1:00:20] ▶

Brighter than chrome, exhaust pipe six to eight inches in diameter,

[1:00:20 - 1:00:24] ▶

spaced one feet apart around the rim.

[1:00:24 - 1:00:27] ▶

Landed and encountered with space people ensued.

[1:00:28 - 1:00:31] ▶

Object caused severe air turbulence when departing,

[1:00:32 - 1:00:34] ▶

sounded like snow tires on pavement.

[1:00:34 - 1:00:36] ▶

At high speed, only louder jet-like sound.

[1:00:36 - 1:00:39] ▶

Landed outside observer's window.

[1:00:39 - 1:00:40] ▶

The case received wide publicity through news media and saucer fans.

[1:00:40 - 1:00:44] ▶

Investigated by Air Force at scene.

[1:00:44 - 1:00:46] ▶

And in the opinion of the investigators, the eyewitness was found to be a balanced person of good mental health.

[1:00:47 - 1:00:52] ▶

Here's the report from J. Allen Hynek and his friend, Major Friend.

[1:00:53 - 1:00:58] ▶

Major Friend called me at approximately 10.45 a.m. April 26th to say that he had just been in touch with Judge Frank Carter at Eagle River

[1:00:58 - 1:01:07] ▶

and that the judge stated that he had sent some material to Donald Kehoe and NICAP.

[1:01:07 - 1:01:12] ▶

Major Friend felt it would be advisable to learn more what the actual situation was before NICAP built a big story out of this.

[1:01:12 - 1:01:19] ▶

In view of the fact that we had been strongly urging immediate capability on the part of the Air Force to investigate cases before they went sour,

[1:01:19 - 1:01:28] ▶

Hynek decided to fly up and investigate personally.

[1:01:28 - 1:01:31] ▶

He took with him Mr. Weller and Mr. Tumlin, a graduate student in astronomy at Northwestern University.

[1:01:32 - 1:01:38] ▶

A Bonanza single-engine plane was hired from the Palawaki airport.

[1:01:38 - 1:01:43] ▶

Takeoff at approximately 3.40 p.m.

[1:01:44 - 1:01:46] ▶

arrived at Eagle River at about 5.45, obtained taxi, went into town to make phone calls,

[1:01:46 - 1:01:51] ▶

contacted Mr. Bob Satrin, brother of the editor of the news review of Vias County,

[1:01:51 - 1:01:56] ▶

tried to contact Joe Simonton but couldn't get through, so he offered to take us to the farm or his chicken ranch about four miles outside of Route 1.

[1:01:56 - 1:02:03] ▶

Simonton was not present at our arrival, so we took the opportunity of taking pictures,

[1:02:04 - 1:02:08] ▶

while Satrin pointed out to us the alleged landing place where the spacecraft had landed.

[1:02:08 - 1:02:12] ▶

That was about 6.30 p.m.

[1:02:13 - 1:02:15] ▶

Weller rode with Simonton, said he was damn sick and tired of being pestered by newsmen,

[1:02:15 - 1:02:22] ▶

assured Weller that this whole thing was not a hoax or a joke.

[1:02:22 - 1:02:25] ▶

Wouldn't take two weeks out of his work to perpetrate a hoax, now would he?

[1:02:26 - 1:02:29] ▶

Weller reports that Simonton sounded sincere.

[1:02:30 - 1:02:32] ▶

So once and for all, here's a story of what he said happened as follows.

[1:02:32 - 1:02:35] ▶

At 11 a.m. on April 18th, he was having a late breakfast in his home.

[1:02:35 - 1:02:41] ▶

See picture.

[1:02:42 - 1:02:42] ▶

When he heard a noise, which he described as a car going around the curve in a great hurry,

[1:02:43 - 1:02:47] ▶

a screeching like that or something like a jet.

[1:02:47 - 1:02:50] ▶

He said it was actually like a jet.

[1:02:50 - 1:02:52] ▶

It was Judge Carter who stated that he had told him it sounded like a screeching motor car.

[1:02:52 - 1:02:57] ▶

The consensus seems to be that the sound it made while coming down was, in Simonton's words, like a jet.

[1:02:57 - 1:03:05] ▶

Apparently, he told Tumlin that on its way down, it sounded like knobby tires on wet pavement.

[1:03:05 - 1:03:10] ▶

He looked out the window and saw it descending a bright chromium-colored disc-shaped object,

[1:03:10 - 1:03:17] ▶

which he described as two soup bowls, one overturned on the other.

[1:03:17 - 1:03:21] ▶

Simonton stated he was not frightened by the apparition, but went out immediately because of his curiosity.

[1:03:21 - 1:03:25] ▶

When he got there, the hatch, or hatchway, was already open.

[1:03:26 - 1:03:29] ▶

Simonton stated that the hatchway operated something like the trunk of a car and that it hinged from

[1:03:31 - 1:03:35] ▶

on top and the lower lip would coincide with the equator of the ship.

[1:03:35 - 1:03:41] ▶

He stated that when closed, it was completely imperceptible,

[1:03:42 - 1:03:44] ▶

and that he would have sworn there was no possible opening there.

[1:03:45 - 1:03:48] ▶

The spaceship, as drawn by him, is enclosed.

[1:03:48 - 1:03:51] ▶

When he came out, an occupant of said vehicle was leaning out of the hatch

[1:03:51 - 1:03:55] ▶

and making motions with his hands, suggesting that he needed water or some other liquid.

[1:03:55 - 1:03:59] ▶

That is, he made drinking motions.

[1:04:00 - 1:04:03] ▶

Simonton was handed a thermos jug-like bottle, see drawing,

[1:04:03 - 1:04:07] ▶

which he says was quite unlike any other jug he'd ever seen here.

[1:04:07 - 1:04:11] ▶

A beautiful thing, he said.

[1:04:12 - 1:04:13] ▶

He took it to the basement where he has a pump and filled it with water,

[1:04:13 - 1:04:17] ▶

carried it out to the craft, and handed it up to the chap.

[1:04:17 - 1:04:20] ▶

In doing so, he had to get up on tiptoe to put one hand against the craft, he says,

[1:04:21 - 1:04:26] ▶

and effected the transfer of the jug.

[1:04:27 - 1:04:29] ▶

He described the interior as essentially black,

[1:04:29 - 1:04:34] ▶

and he said he saw three control panels,

[1:04:34 - 1:04:36] ▶

and noted that there were two other men inside.

[1:04:36 - 1:04:39] ▶

The men, he described, as extremely clean-shaven.

[1:04:39 - 1:04:42] ▶

He said very smooth-faced,

[1:04:42 - 1:04:43] ▶

but dark and short, about five feet, he estimates.

[1:04:44 - 1:04:47] ▶

He said they looked like Italians.

[1:04:48 - 1:04:49] ▶

Their dress was also black.

[1:04:50 - 1:04:51] ▶

A knitted jersey was as close as he could come to it.

[1:04:51 - 1:04:54] ▶

And he insisted that they had turtleneck sweater-type apparel.

[1:04:54 - 1:04:57] ▶

From his account, it seemed to me that it was more like the stereotype picture one gets

[1:04:57 - 1:05:04] ▶

of Italian sports car racers.

[1:05:04 - 1:05:07] ▶

All right?

[1:05:08 - 1:05:08] ▶

Or, at any rate, of the sporty set.

[1:05:08 - 1:05:11] ▶

There was no communication except by sign language between them.

[1:05:12 - 1:05:16] ▶

And as he backed away from the craft, he said he saw the interior dimly lighted.

[1:05:16 - 1:05:22] ▶

And it was extremely beautiful.

[1:05:24 - 1:05:25] ▶

He said he would love to have a room painted in the same way.

[1:05:25 - 1:05:28] ▶

He noticed that one of the men was apparently cooking something.

[1:05:28 - 1:05:31] ▶

And in his attempt to communicate by sign language,

[1:05:31 - 1:05:33] ▶

indicating that they now had water,

[1:05:34 - 1:05:37] ▶

he made motions with his mouth that they could now drink.

[1:05:37 - 1:05:40] ▶

But apparently, this sign language was misinterpreted,

[1:05:40 - 1:05:43] ▶

as indicating that he wanted some of the stuff they were cooking.

[1:05:43 - 1:05:47] ▶

And whereupon, they handed him three or four of these little pancake-like cakes.

[1:05:47 - 1:05:51] ▶

And as soon as the transfer was effected,

[1:05:52 - 1:05:54] ▶

the hatch swung down, closed, with a click.

[1:05:54 - 1:05:58] ▶

And he says that the thing was imperceptible.

[1:05:58 - 1:06:01] ▶

He could not tell where the hatch had been.

[1:06:01 - 1:06:02] ▶

And immediately, the craft, he stated, rose up like an elevator,

[1:06:04 - 1:06:07] ▶

without any apparent acceleration,

[1:06:07 - 1:06:09] ▶

except, of course, at the very beginning.

[1:06:09 - 1:06:11] ▶

And when it arrived at a height of about 20 feet,

[1:06:11 - 1:06:14] ▶

it tilted 45 degrees and took off toward the south,

[1:06:14 - 1:06:17] ▶

and it disappeared in a matter of seconds.

[1:06:17 - 1:06:19] ▶

Two seconds, as he stated.

[1:06:20 - 1:06:21] ▶

As it took off, there was a considerable blast from the rear,

[1:06:22 - 1:06:25] ▶

without smoke, however,

[1:06:25 - 1:06:26] ▶

which did shake his little pine tree severely,

[1:06:27 - 1:06:29] ▶

although it came back to normal shortly afterward.

[1:06:30 - 1:06:32] ▶

We examined the tree.

[1:06:33 - 1:06:34] ▶

There were some broken branches on it,

[1:06:34 - 1:06:35] ▶

but he stated that that was not caused by the ship,

[1:06:35 - 1:06:38] ▶

but had been caused by a snowplow some weeks previous.

[1:06:38 - 1:06:40] ▶

After we had taken a number of pictures,

[1:06:41 - 1:06:42] ▶

we went over numerous points with Simonton,

[1:06:42 - 1:06:44] ▶

and invited him to dinner and headed into town.

[1:06:44 - 1:06:47] ▶

In the meantime, renting a car from a garage,

[1:06:47 - 1:06:49] ▶

so that we could look up other people in the case.

[1:06:49 - 1:06:52] ▶

We had a rather lengthy dinner,

[1:06:52 - 1:06:54] ▶

in which I attempted to draw him out on various topics.

[1:06:55 - 1:06:57] ▶

People passed the table frequently,

[1:06:58 - 1:06:59] ▶

and he was greeted as though he was a very respected member of the community.

[1:07:00 - 1:07:03] ▶

I excused myself and went to the bar to strike up a conversation with the people there.

[1:07:03 - 1:07:08] ▶

And both in that encounter,

[1:07:09 - 1:07:10] ▶

and in many other casual conversations,

[1:07:11 - 1:07:12] ▶

it appeared that the town, by and large, believed him.

[1:07:13 - 1:07:17] ▶

Although, there were some rather voluble skeptics.

[1:07:17 - 1:07:20] ▶

I was advised to talk with his neighbor,

[1:07:20 - 1:07:21] ▶

a man named Remus,

[1:07:21 - 1:07:22] ▶

who I was told could tell me quite a bit about Joe.

[1:07:23 - 1:07:25] ▶

But since our time was extremely limited,

[1:07:26 - 1:07:28] ▶

I did not get to do this.

[1:07:28 - 1:07:29] ▶

Mr. Weller talked with Judge Carter,

[1:07:29 - 1:07:31] ▶

and experienced great difficulty in being admitted to the house.

[1:07:31 - 1:07:34] ▶

Apparently, the judge thought he was from the Air Force,

[1:07:35 - 1:07:38] ▶

and the Air Force appears to be strictly persona non grata

[1:07:38 - 1:07:41] ▶

among the flying saucer people around there.

[1:07:41 - 1:07:43] ▶

The judge admitted membership in NICAP,

[1:07:44 - 1:07:46] ▶

and in his library,

[1:07:47 - 1:07:48] ▶

had one long shelf devoted entirely to flying saucer books,

[1:07:48 - 1:07:52] ▶

and other shelves were devoted to topics

[1:07:52 - 1:07:54] ▶

which are generally regarded as lunatic fringe items.

[1:07:54 - 1:07:57] ▶

Though I myself do not necessarily regard them as such.

[1:07:57 - 1:08:02] ▶

I later had the opportunity to talk with the judge in Weller's presence,

[1:08:02 - 1:08:05] ▶

and by that time, the judge was quite voluble,

[1:08:05 - 1:08:08] ▶

and went into great detail as to his initial encounter with Simonton,

[1:08:08 - 1:08:12] ▶

and the types of questions he had asked Simonton.

[1:08:13 - 1:08:15] ▶

The judge posed as an initial skeptic,

[1:08:16 - 1:08:18] ▶

but it is apparent that in this questioning of Joe,

[1:08:18 - 1:08:21] ▶

he undoubtedly introduced many details into the story,

[1:08:22 - 1:08:25] ▶

which were later incorporated bodily by Simonton as gospel.

[1:08:25 - 1:08:31] ▶

As far as technical details,

[1:08:31 - 1:08:33] ▶

as regards propulsion systems, trajectories, and the like,

[1:08:33 - 1:08:36] ▶

it was futile to attempt to pursue the matter further.

[1:08:36 - 1:08:39] ▶

Simonton is an inherent plumber and chicken farmer.

[1:08:39 - 1:08:41] ▶

He lives alone.

[1:08:42 - 1:08:43] ▶

His wife works in Chicago,

[1:08:43 - 1:08:44] ▶

and apparently has been for the past two years.

[1:08:44 - 1:08:46] ▶

He would seem a fit subject if regarded by a psychologist.

[1:08:46 - 1:08:50] ▶

I believe as one to whom a mental aberration might occur.

[1:08:51 - 1:08:54] ▶

The judge stated, in fact,

[1:08:55 - 1:08:56] ▶

that he had first thought that Joe had become shack-happy,

[1:08:56 - 1:08:59] ▶

but that after sufficient questioning,

[1:09:00 - 1:09:02] ▶

he, the judge,

[1:09:02 - 1:09:03] ▶

had been convinced that the sighting was valid.

[1:09:03 - 1:09:05] ▶

In talking with Simonton,

[1:09:06 - 1:09:07] ▶

one did not get the impression

[1:09:08 - 1:09:09] ▶

that he was the Adamski type.

[1:09:09 - 1:09:12] ▶

This is reference to George Adamski,

[1:09:13 - 1:09:15] ▶

who also had multiple sightings during that time,

[1:09:15 - 1:09:17] ▶

but was considered to be,

[1:09:17 - 1:09:18] ▶

you know,

[1:09:19 - 1:09:19] ▶

someone who would greatly embellish his encounters.

[1:09:19 - 1:09:22] ▶

He answered questions directly,

[1:09:24 - 1:09:26] ▶

did not contradict himself,

[1:09:26 - 1:09:27] ▶

insisted on the fact being exactly as he stated,

[1:09:28 - 1:09:30] ▶

and he refused to accept embellishments or modifications.

[1:09:30 - 1:09:33] ▶

He stated that he was sure that he wouldn't believe him,

[1:09:34 - 1:09:37] ▶

but that he didn't care whether he was believed.

[1:09:37 - 1:09:40] ▶

He stated simply,

[1:09:40 - 1:09:41] ▶

this happened,

[1:09:41 - 1:09:42] ▶

and that was that.

[1:09:42 - 1:09:43] ▶

The duration of the entire episode was about five minutes.

[1:09:43 - 1:09:46] ▶

He stated also that at no time was he frightened,

[1:09:47 - 1:09:49] ▶

and at no time did the men appear in any way to threaten him.

[1:09:49 - 1:09:52] ▶

As they left,

[1:09:53 - 1:09:53] ▶

the man to whom he had handed the jug

[1:09:54 - 1:09:55] ▶

placed his hand on his forehead

[1:09:55 - 1:09:57] ▶

in a gesture of salute

[1:09:57 - 1:09:59] ▶

and appreciation,

[1:09:59 - 1:10:00] ▶

which gesture was returned by Simonton.

[1:10:00 - 1:10:02] ▶

The weather was clear,

[1:10:04 - 1:10:05] ▶

and the sun was shining brightly on the metallic.

[1:10:05 - 1:10:07] ▶

surface.

[1:10:07 - 1:10:07] ▶

As far as noise was concerned,

[1:10:08 - 1:10:09] ▶

he stated that there were continuous

[1:10:09 - 1:10:11] ▶

whining sound in the interior of the cabin,

[1:10:11 - 1:10:13] ▶

and that the takeoff did not involve

[1:10:14 - 1:10:16] ▶

any particular noise.

[1:10:16 - 1:10:17] ▶

Dr. Heineck then says that Mr. Simonton

[1:10:19 - 1:10:20] ▶

appears to be sincere

[1:10:20 - 1:10:22] ▶

and did not appear to be the perpetrator of a hoax,

[1:10:22 - 1:10:24] ▶

and that perhaps there is some type of mental condition

[1:10:24 - 1:10:27] ▶

or observation,

[1:10:27 - 1:10:28] ▶

but this should be in the hands of,

[1:10:29 - 1:10:32] ▶

in the realm of psychology.

[1:10:32 - 1:10:33] ▶

To conclude,

[1:10:33 - 1:10:34] ▶

as far as town reaction is concerned,

[1:10:34 - 1:10:38] ▶

it was evidently quite a high spot of conversation

[1:10:39 - 1:10:41] ▶

in the pre-tourist season.

[1:10:41 - 1:10:43] ▶

The town certainly has something to talk about,

[1:10:44 - 1:10:46] ▶

and the local bakery has a whitewashed sign on its window

[1:10:46 - 1:10:49] ▶

stating,

[1:10:49 - 1:10:49] ▶

Spaceship Cakes,

[1:10:49 - 1:10:50] ▶

and a local service station has a sign stating,

[1:10:50 - 1:10:53] ▶

Spaceships served here.

[1:10:53 - 1:10:54] ▶

It was established that Simonton is not a reader of books,

[1:10:55 - 1:10:57] ▶

and probably did not have any preconceived notions

[1:10:58 - 1:11:00] ▶

as to UFOs,

[1:11:00 - 1:11:02] ▶

except that we do not know what previous contact he had

[1:11:02 - 1:11:05] ▶

with the judge,

[1:11:05 - 1:11:06] ▶

and how much the judge may have told him

[1:11:06 - 1:11:09] ▶

of the Flying Saucer game.

[1:11:09 - 1:11:11] ▶

The judge did say that when he talked with Joe,

[1:11:11 - 1:11:13] ▶

who had asked for an appointment late in the evening,

[1:11:13 - 1:11:17] ▶

he had shown him numerous pictures of Flying Saucers

[1:11:17 - 1:11:19] ▶

in various books,

[1:11:19 - 1:11:20] ▶

but in each case,

[1:11:20 - 1:11:21] ▶

Joe said,

[1:11:21 - 1:11:21] ▶

No, it wasn't like that.

[1:11:22 - 1:11:23] ▶

It was like this,

[1:11:23 - 1:11:24] ▶

and so on.

[1:11:24 - 1:11:24] ▶

There is some connection between a soup taurine

[1:11:25 - 1:11:28] ▶

that the judge has in his home,

[1:11:28 - 1:11:31] ▶

and the jug that was supposedly handed down,

[1:11:31 - 1:11:34] ▶

at least insofar as the handles

[1:11:35 - 1:11:37] ▶

and general overall contours are concerned,

[1:11:37 - 1:11:40] ▶

although the drawing that Joe made of the jug

[1:11:41 - 1:11:43] ▶

does not, by any means,

[1:11:43 - 1:11:45] ▶

bear a one-to-one correspondence

[1:11:46 - 1:11:47] ▶

with the soup taurine.

[1:11:47 - 1:11:49] ▶

He's saying here that there is some semblance

[1:11:49 - 1:11:52] ▶

of his description,

[1:11:52 - 1:11:53] ▶

and, you know,

[1:11:53 - 1:11:54] ▶

what he might have had at the home,

[1:11:54 - 1:11:55] ▶

but that, yeah,

[1:11:55 - 1:11:56] ▶

there's no direct one-to-one correspondence.

[1:11:56 - 1:11:59] ▶

In view of the fact that it is not our practice

[1:12:00 - 1:12:03] ▶

to investigate cases in which there is only one observer,

[1:12:03 - 1:12:07] ▶

such cases are a priori,

[1:12:07 - 1:12:09] ▶

suspect of mental aberration.

[1:12:10 - 1:12:11] ▶

This case should not be given too much weight,

[1:12:12 - 1:12:14] ▶

and certainly one cannot expect

[1:12:15 - 1:12:16] ▶

any sort of definite solution.

[1:12:16 - 1:12:18] ▶

From the appearance of the man,

[1:12:19 - 1:12:20] ▶

his habits of life,

[1:12:20 - 1:12:21] ▶

and his evident loneliness,

[1:12:22 - 1:12:23] ▶

it would appear to me

[1:12:24 - 1:12:25] ▶

that the situation was ripe for suggestibility

[1:12:25 - 1:12:28] ▶

and mental aberration.

[1:12:28 - 1:12:29] ▶

The presence of the NICAP judge in the picture

[1:12:29 - 1:12:32] ▶

probably accounts in large part

[1:12:32 - 1:12:34] ▶

for the embellishment of the story

[1:12:34 - 1:12:35] ▶

and the publicity it has attained.

[1:12:35 - 1:12:37] ▶

It would be the advice and opinion

[1:12:38 - 1:12:40] ▶

of your consultant

[1:12:40 - 1:12:41] ▶

that the Air Force,

[1:12:41 - 1:12:42] ▶

in discussing this case,

[1:12:43 - 1:12:44] ▶

should hold fast to the advisability

[1:12:44 - 1:12:46] ▶

of the general custom

[1:12:46 - 1:12:47] ▶

of not considering seriously

[1:12:47 - 1:12:49] ▶

any citing or report

[1:12:49 - 1:12:50] ▶

from a single individual,

[1:12:50 - 1:12:51] ▶

and to state that this case

[1:12:52 - 1:12:53] ▶

was investigated solely

[1:12:53 - 1:12:55] ▶

because of its possible nuisance value,

[1:12:55 - 1:12:58] ▶

and because there will undoubtedly be

[1:12:58 - 1:13:00] ▶

an attempt made to jockey

[1:13:00 - 1:13:03] ▶

this incident into a full-fledged production.

[1:13:03 - 1:13:06] ▶

The judge already intends

[1:13:07 - 1:13:08] ▶

to have public meetings

[1:13:08 - 1:13:09] ▶

in which Joe will describe this thing

[1:13:09 - 1:13:11] ▶

and answer questions,

[1:13:11 - 1:13:13] ▶

and this of course means undoubtedly

[1:13:13 - 1:13:14] ▶

that there will be public lectures

[1:13:14 - 1:13:16] ▶

with paid admission.

[1:13:16 - 1:13:17] ▶

There seems to be some indication

[1:13:17 - 1:13:19] ▶

that since Eagle River is a tourist town,

[1:13:19 - 1:13:21] ▶

that Joe's place will be a tourist attraction

[1:13:22 - 1:13:24] ▶

this summer and the like.

[1:13:24 - 1:13:25] ▶

Simonton has already received many letters

[1:13:25 - 1:13:28] ▶

which he kindly allowed me to read.

[1:13:28 - 1:13:29] ▶

The general tenor was that

[1:13:30 - 1:13:31] ▶

he had been a very privileged individual

[1:13:31 - 1:13:33] ▶

to have had this experience

[1:13:33 - 1:13:34] ▶

and that he should

[1:13:34 - 1:13:35] ▶

be very careful of the Air Force

[1:13:35 - 1:13:37] ▶

in divulging any information

[1:13:37 - 1:13:39] ▶

or particularly

[1:13:39 - 1:13:40] ▶

of giving them any material evidence.

[1:13:40 - 1:13:42] ▶

He was warned that the Air Force

[1:13:42 - 1:13:44] ▶

would attempt to hush him up

[1:13:44 - 1:13:45] ▶

and that if he gave the Air Force

[1:13:45 - 1:13:47] ▶

any material evidence,

[1:13:47 - 1:13:48] ▶

he would never get it back.

[1:13:49 - 1:13:50] ▶

I was questioned a number of times

[1:13:50 - 1:13:52] ▶

on my feelings towards NICAP Major Kehoe,

[1:13:52 - 1:13:54] ▶

and I of course stated that I thought

[1:13:54 - 1:13:56] ▶

that NICAP was attempting

[1:13:56 - 1:13:57] ▶

to do a serious job

[1:13:57 - 1:13:58] ▶

and that they had a lot of interest

[1:13:58 - 1:14:00] ▶

and sincere members

[1:14:00 - 1:14:01] ▶

who were trying to do the best they could.

[1:14:01 - 1:14:03] ▶

In no case, of course,

[1:14:03 - 1:14:05] ▶

did I attempt to say anything

[1:14:05 - 1:14:07] ▶

that could later be turned against us,

[1:14:07 - 1:14:09] ▶

as are the unsympathetic

[1:14:09 - 1:14:10] ▶

towards the efforts of NICAP.

[1:14:10 - 1:14:12] ▶

Likewise, this holds for my two colleagues

[1:14:13 - 1:14:14] ▶

who did a very fine job in interrogation

[1:14:14 - 1:14:17] ▶

and without whom I could not have completed

[1:14:17 - 1:14:19] ▶

this little job in hours we had located.

[1:14:19 - 1:14:21] ▶

We left Eagle River about midnight

[1:14:21 - 1:14:24] ▶

or shortly thereafter

[1:14:24 - 1:14:26] ▶

and arrived back in Chicago

[1:14:26 - 1:14:27] ▶

at about 3 a.m.

[1:14:27 - 1:14:29] ▶

So to conclude,

[1:14:29 - 1:14:31] ▶

as we've read and we found out

[1:14:31 - 1:14:34] ▶

through the letter written by Judge Carter,

[1:14:34 - 1:14:36] ▶

he was a member of NICAP,

[1:14:37 - 1:14:38] ▶

a paying member of NICAP,

[1:14:38 - 1:14:39] ▶

so he did have some vested interest

[1:14:39 - 1:14:41] ▶

in this actually being a UFO,

[1:14:41 - 1:14:43] ▶

being someone not unlike myself,

[1:14:44 - 1:14:47] ▶

someone who's a fan of this stuff,

[1:14:47 - 1:14:48] ▶

who's got books about it,

[1:14:48 - 1:14:49] ▶

who wants it to be true.

[1:14:49 - 1:14:50] ▶

So there definitely is a bias there.

[1:14:51 - 1:14:53] ▶

But I do find it interesting

[1:14:53 - 1:14:54] ▶

because although this is a case

[1:14:54 - 1:14:56] ▶

where there was only one witness

[1:14:56 - 1:14:57] ▶

and we know that from previous documents

[1:14:57 - 1:14:59] ▶

that we've read

[1:14:59 - 1:15:00] ▶

that Project Blue Book

[1:15:00 - 1:15:02] ▶

doesn't deal with those type of things,

[1:15:02 - 1:15:04] ▶

there was another witness.

[1:15:04 - 1:15:07] ▶

There's a whole family

[1:15:08 - 1:15:09] ▶

who saw what seems to be

[1:15:09 - 1:15:12] ▶

the exact same craft.

[1:15:12 - 1:15:13] ▶

Plus, we have another witness

[1:15:13 - 1:15:14] ▶

that saw the same craft

[1:15:14 - 1:15:16] ▶

within the same hour.

[1:15:16 - 1:15:17] ▶

So just to follow up,

[1:15:17 - 1:15:18] ▶

Simonton did later print

[1:15:19 - 1:15:20] ▶

a four-page pamphlet

[1:15:20 - 1:15:22] ▶

called The Story of the Flying Saucer.

[1:15:22 - 1:15:24] ▶

And then in 1964,

[1:15:24 - 1:15:25] ▶

did a radio interview

[1:15:26 - 1:15:27] ▶

and he said,

[1:15:27 - 1:15:27] ▶

I haven't earned a penny

[1:15:27 - 1:15:29] ▶

from plumbing

[1:15:29 - 1:15:30] ▶

since the reporters started swarming.

[1:15:30 - 1:15:32] ▶

And if it happened again,

[1:15:32 - 1:15:33] ▶

I wouldn't tell anyone.

[1:15:34 - 1:15:35] ▶

I'll be honest,

[1:15:36 - 1:15:37] ▶

buckwheat pancakes

[1:15:38 - 1:15:38] ▶

aren't that delicious.

[1:15:38 - 1:15:40] ▶

They do taste a little stale,

[1:15:40 - 1:15:41] ▶

but they are good for you.

[1:15:41 - 1:15:42] ▶

It's funny to me that Joe

[1:15:43 - 1:15:44] ▶

didn't really like the taste

[1:15:44 - 1:15:45] ▶

of the pancakes,

[1:15:45 - 1:15:45] ▶

maybe because those pancakes

[1:15:45 - 1:15:47] ▶

might have been healthy

[1:15:47 - 1:15:48] ▶

and not filled with,

[1:15:48 - 1:15:49] ▶

you know, butter and syrup

[1:15:49 - 1:15:50] ▶

and the like.

[1:15:50 - 1:15:51] ▶

Yeah, there's so many

[1:15:52 - 1:15:53] ▶

fascinating parts of this case,

[1:15:53 - 1:15:54] ▶

even what they were wearing,

[1:15:54 - 1:15:55] ▶

these tiny men.

[1:15:55 - 1:15:57] ▶

They were seemingly wearing

[1:15:58 - 1:16:00] ▶

these skull caps

[1:16:00 - 1:16:01] ▶

and turtlenecks

[1:16:01 - 1:16:02] ▶

and cooking something,

[1:16:02 - 1:16:04] ▶

which means they eat,

[1:16:05 - 1:16:06] ▶

you know,

[1:16:06 - 1:16:06] ▶

which is all very, very strange.

[1:16:06 - 1:16:08] ▶

I don't know what to make of this.

[1:16:08 - 1:16:09] ▶

This case is also cited

[1:16:10 - 1:16:12] ▶

in Passport to Magonia

[1:16:12 - 1:16:13] ▶

by Jacques Vallée

[1:16:13 - 1:16:14] ▶

in that historically,

[1:16:14 - 1:16:17] ▶

fairy encounters

[1:16:18 - 1:16:19] ▶

often also see

[1:16:19 - 1:16:20] ▶

this exchange of food happen.

[1:16:20 - 1:16:22] ▶

Is the exchange of food

[1:16:22 - 1:16:24] ▶

some type of symbolic

[1:16:24 - 1:16:25] ▶

cooperation between two species,

[1:16:25 - 1:16:28] ▶

some type of peace offering?

[1:16:29 - 1:16:30] ▶

Or did they simply need water

[1:16:31 - 1:16:33] ▶

to power their craft

[1:16:33 - 1:16:34] ▶

and happen to be making snacks

[1:16:34 - 1:16:36] ▶

and offer him a few

[1:16:36 - 1:16:37] ▶

greasy hot pancakes?

[1:16:37 - 1:16:39] ▶

I don't know.

[1:16:39 - 1:16:41] ▶

But folks,

[1:16:42 - 1:16:42] ▶

that is one of the most

[1:16:43 - 1:16:43] ▶

fascinating tales,

[1:16:43 - 1:16:45] ▶

one of the most

[1:16:46 - 1:16:46] ▶

well-documented

[1:16:46 - 1:16:48] ▶

encounters

[1:16:48 - 1:16:50] ▶

with extraterrestrials

[1:16:50 - 1:16:52] ▶

and one of the rare times

[1:16:52 - 1:16:54] ▶

we actually have

[1:16:54 - 1:16:55] ▶

physical evidence

[1:16:55 - 1:16:56] ▶

that isn't an implant

[1:16:56 - 1:16:58] ▶

or a piece of hair.

[1:16:58 - 1:16:59] ▶

No, it's food

[1:17:00 - 1:17:01] ▶

and it rests

[1:17:01 - 1:17:02] ▶

by itself

[1:17:02 - 1:17:04] ▶

in a museum.

[1:17:04 - 1:17:06] ▶

I encourage you guys

[1:17:06 - 1:17:08] ▶

to check out

[1:17:08 - 1:17:08] ▶

area52.shop

[1:17:08 - 1:17:10] ▶

if you want to pick up

[1:17:10 - 1:17:11] ▶

some really cool merch

[1:17:11 - 1:17:12] ▶

and help support this channel.

[1:17:12 - 1:17:13] ▶

It means a great deal to me.

[1:17:13 - 1:17:15] ▶

Also, leave a like,

[1:17:16 - 1:17:17] ▶

do all that stuff,

[1:17:17 - 1:17:18] ▶

check us out on Spotify,

[1:17:18 - 1:17:19] ▶

leave us a review over there

[1:17:20 - 1:17:21] ▶

or join the membership

[1:17:21 - 1:17:23] ▶

for more content,

[1:17:23 - 1:17:24] ▶

weekly vlogs,

[1:17:25 - 1:17:25] ▶

access to top secret discords

[1:17:26 - 1:17:28] ▶

and so forth.

[1:17:28 - 1:17:29] ▶

I do appreciate you guys

[1:17:29 - 1:17:31] ▶

hanging out

[1:17:31 - 1:17:31] ▶

and I hope you enjoyed

[1:17:31 - 1:17:32] ▶

this episode.

[1:17:32 - 1:17:32] ▶

We'll see you on the next one.

[1:17:33 - 1:17:33] ▶

All right, folks,

[1:17:34 - 1:17:34] ▶

I do appreciate you guys

[1:17:34 - 1:17:35] ▶

watching till the end

[1:17:35 - 1:17:36] ▶

and here we go.

[1:17:36 - 1:17:38] ▶

A taste test.

[1:17:40 - 1:17:41] ▶

They are greasy

[1:17:43 - 1:17:44] ▶

with the ingredients

[1:17:44 - 1:17:46] ▶

that were used.

[1:17:46 - 1:17:47] ▶

There's a reason

[1:17:47 - 1:17:48] ▶

why they're greasy,

[1:17:48 - 1:17:48] ▶

but yeah,

[1:17:48 - 1:17:49] ▶

the aftertaste,

[1:17:49 - 1:17:50] ▶

I can understand

[1:17:51 - 1:17:53] ▶

how he would say cardboard.

[1:17:53 - 1:17:54] ▶

Watch it down

[1:17:57 - 1:17:58] ▶

with some coffee.

[1:17:58 - 1:17:59] ▶

Honestly,

[1:17:59 - 1:17:59] ▶

not bad.

[1:18:00 - 1:18:00] ▶

I think Joe

[1:18:01 - 1:18:02] ▶

was probably exaggerating

[1:18:02 - 1:18:03] ▶

with how bad they taste.

[1:18:03 - 1:18:04] ▶

They don't taste that bad.

[1:18:05 - 1:18:06] ▶

I feel like if you just

[1:18:06 - 1:18:07] ▶

eat a pancake

[1:18:07 - 1:18:08] ▶

without butter or syrup,

[1:18:08 - 1:18:09] ▶

it's not going to taste

[1:18:10 - 1:18:11] ▶

super flavorful anyways.

[1:18:11 - 1:18:12] ▶

Definitely tastes

[1:18:13 - 1:18:13] ▶

a little different

[1:18:13 - 1:18:14] ▶

than flour.

[1:18:14 - 1:18:15] ▶

Honestly,

[1:18:18 - 1:18:18] ▶

that's something

[1:18:19 - 1:18:20] ▶

I would have.

[1:18:20 - 1:18:21] ▶

Throw some maple syrup

[1:18:21 - 1:18:21] ▶

on there,

[1:18:21 - 1:18:22] ▶

maybe some butter.

[1:18:22 - 1:18:23] ▶

Not bad.

[1:18:23 - 1:18:24] ▶

And if you guys want to see

[1:18:24 - 1:18:25] ▶

how I made these pancakes,

[1:18:25 - 1:18:27] ▶

head over to the membership.

[1:18:27 - 1:18:28] ▶

I'll be posting

[1:18:28 - 1:18:30] ▶

that video this weekend.

[1:18:30 - 1:18:31] ▶

Peace and love.

[1:18:31 - 1:18:32] ▶

be sure to see

[1:18:32 - 1:18:57] ▶

Deep Pi

[1:18:58 - 1:18:59] ▶