Transcript: The Man Involved In Every American Conspiracy

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Today my interview guest is Danny Shehan.

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Danny might have a better understanding of what actually happened and just about every major 20th century

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American conspiracy than anyone I've met and I know a lot of conspiratorial people shout out Alex Jones.

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So a lot of the hardest thing and trash might have come from Mars.

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What?

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If you want to know who really killed JFK watch this interview. It's absolutely crazy.

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Do you think that the CIA killed JFK?

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I do know who did kill him.

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As well, good night have gotten off the number of shots.

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This interview is an endless wellspring of mind-blowing facts from Danny.

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The craft have built into it some kind of an AI capacity to respond telepathically to the control of the pilot.

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That's the key to it all.

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From American industrialists and financiers secretly funding the Nazis before World War II.

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So that they wanted Hitler to establish this kind of fascist government,

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the economic theory of which is you place all the instrumentalities of the government

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at the disposal of the interests of the private corporations.

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And the formation of the CIA as an extension of the great-gilded age families.

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There was a central intelligence agency with the brainchild of the people at Brown Brothers Hairman.

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Danny even sketches a photo of a UFO that he saw first and

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in a classified facility in Washington while reviewing the blue book files for Jimmy Carter.

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And finally, if you want a true understanding of the major players involved in the Watergate scandal,

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look no further than this interview.

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Danny's comprehensive knowledge of core American conspiracies is partly due to his involvement

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in like half of them as an attorney.

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I was asked to be the attorney or L-Ran Hubbard.

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I could be given access to every single document anywhere in the world

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in the internal files of the Church of Scientology.

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I'm not kidding. He was actually personally involved in the Watergate case,

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the Pentagon papers, Karen Silkwood, and has personally represented UFO whistleblower

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Lou Elizondo, Harvard Psychiatry Department Head and legendary UFO researcher John Mac,

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and the notorious Dr. Stephen Greer.

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So without further ado, sit back, relax, and be prepared to stay up all night

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integrating your new world view.

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After hearing from the man at the center of every American conspiracy, Daniel P. She-Han.

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But before we talk to Danny, it's important to point out that if you're watching this,

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Here with my new friend, Danny Sheehan, who knows probably more about every American conspiracy

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than anybody I know, partly because you were involved in half of them as a public investigator

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and people's advocate, whether it was Watergate or Karen Silkwood. Now you represent a lot of the

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UFO whistleblowers, Stephen Greer, Louis L. Azondo, John Mack. Before that, it was ahead of the Harvard

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Psychiatry Department and studied alien abductions for the last 10 years of his career. It's an honor

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to have you, and I'm excited to have a pretty crazy conversation. Why don't we start actually with

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UFOs? I think they're sort of varying the zeitgeist right now, but I think a lot of people in the

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UFO disclosure world feel very frustrated because last year, you have David Grush from the National Geospatial

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Agency coming out, blowing the whistle. Literally a year ago, August of 23, saying in front of Congress

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that we've had July 26th. July 26th, that's right. That's amazing. Give it every saying,

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that we have had a legacy reverse engineering programs. We've had crash retrievals of UFOs. We have

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them in our possession, you know, in various aerospace warehouses. We have the bodies of the pilots

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who piloted this craft. Biologics came with some of these recoveries. Yeah. Were they, I guess,

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human or non-human biologics? Non-human, and that was the assessment of people with

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wreck knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still on the program. And it's a sort of

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bombshell claim and he says that he's brought forward 40 firsthand witnesses. People have worked

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on the program to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, Monheim. And yet nothing's,

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you know, not a lot has happened since. And I'm friends with Grush and I do trust him. And I think

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there's a lot going on there behind the scenes, but yeah, what's your take overall and where we're at?

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There's a lot going on behind the scenes is the answer. And one of the things that people who

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have worked in Washington DC for 20 years or more realize that the public hearings that take place

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and the Congress are kind of dog and pony shows. And that, you know, they're semi-scripted is a rule.

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There's a decision made on high as to what's going to get said publicly and what isn't,

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what questions are going to get asked and what aren't. And so that there's a bit of theater involved,

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more than a bit of theater involved. What's going on in the background is the real deal making.

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And the challenge in Washington DC among many others is that everything is a deal.

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Everything is a negotiation. So if the Republican Party proposes $10 billion for a particular

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program, the Democratic Party proposes $8 billion for the same program, you know ahead of time

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it's going to come out to $9 billion because it's not a matter of principles, it's not a matter of

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what the program needs. It's a question of the kind of false dialectic that's going on.

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So you have to get used to that to begin with. And now we've come into the scene with the UFO

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phenomenon. And there have been a number of passes at this in the history. But what's happened

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is since the one that everybody knows about is the December 17th of 2017, the front page story

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in the New York Times. Luel Azondo and Chris Mellon, you know, and Chris Mellon very importantly,

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was the deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence, both under the Clinton administration

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and under the Bush W Bush administration. So he's kind of a bipartisan, you know, Mellon,

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a family guy. And in Luel Azondo was involved in the program that the Pentagon had, a secret program

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above top secret, the real elements of the program, where they were attempting to develop a

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weapon system, an advanced weapon system, using the technology that they'd recovered from UFO craft.

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And the thing that people don't realize, you know, this big hubbub, you know, with the front page

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story in the New York Times, and everybody's saying, oh, here's two amazing whistleblowers that come

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out of the shadows, and they've come forward, and they've made this extraordinary set of

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revelations about the existence of this secret program. And it turns out the whole thing was authorized.

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I mean, that the United States Defense Department, Office of Pre-Publication Review and Security,

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had cleared all of those videos to be shown, and they had okayed New York Times to publish them.

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And so there's this whole backstory going on that there's a pretense of kind of a,

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a insurrectionist kind of whistleblower kind of group coming forward to reveal this information

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and challenge the deep secrets of the state, but in fact, there's decisions being made deeper in

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to reveal some of those. There have to be. And there also have to be this sort of limited

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form of disclosure that's, these people are sort of coordinating, because the videos, the three

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videos, whether it's go fast or gimbal or limits, all these videos are not high quality, they're

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not high resolution. They're no her near what they've got. It's only one sensor, and then they say,

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they say, you know, we have a lot better stuff, you know? And so it's clearly almost like a

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Rorschach test, like, or conditioning or something. It's like how are people going to sort of react,

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and then maybe we'll go a little farther in a couple of years, and then maybe we'll go even farther.

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You have to be careful because you can start speculating about what's going on there in the background.

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I don't know. It's hard. Well, what I've done, I got contacted by Lou Elizando himself

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right after this happened. Well, you get for the context for the audience. If you don't know

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anything about UFOs, Lou Elizando ran an A-Tip these programs from 2007 to 2012. He also was

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involved in a lot of interesting kind of counter-intel and recon for the US and was at Montanamo Bay at

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one point. I think it was deployed in Iraq. And yeah, it's been to his place in Wyoming. He's

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very interesting guy. And in 2017, he came out as part of this New York Times revelation. He was

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the first kind of whistleblower to say, I ran this program. It was actually under Senator Harry Reid,

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who was interested in UFOs. They'd appropriated $22 million. Harry Reid, Ted Stevens from Alaska.

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And Dan and I from Hawaii. That's right. And they're all studying, you know, UFOs, a lot of which

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took place under Bigelow and on Skinwalker Ranch. Okay. Lou Elizando approved you.

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You've blown out the whole audience. Nobody knows what we're talking about.

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I'm the same autistic compulsory, you know, attention to detail that you do.

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The bottom line is that what's happened is that for some reason, which we can explore, but for

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some reason, there's been a decision that was made, you know, in 2017 at the very end of 2017,

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to come forward to begin a process of trying to establish control, literally, over the disclosure

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of the UFO information. And it actually generated an extraordinary piece of legislation

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that the United States Senate approved. That was a 64-page bill that set up this complex process

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of undertaking a controlled disclosure and actually formulating a controlled disclosure campaign

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to go over a seven-year period to start rolling out information to the public, into the world,

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therefore, about what it is that the United States government knew about the UFO phenomenon

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and about some vaguely identified non-human intelligence.

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So what you're talking about now is the Schumer Amendment to the Ford looking year 2024

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NDA, National Defense Authorization Act. So it's the defense budget every year.

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No, it's the law. And it was this amendment that talks about non-human intelligence

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and the government declaring eminent domain over non-human craft. That's a possession of these,

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you know, private aerospace companies. And it ends up kind of dying on the vine because of Mike Johnson.

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Not really, though, but that's the impression that, again, people have...

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We got diluted. It got passed, but in a very...

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Well, what happened is that one of the most important aspects of the bill did get passed.

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And that is ordering... Here's the Congress of the United States, both the Senate and House

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signed by the President, ordering all six of the United States military services,

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you know, the Army Air Force, Navy, you know, the Space Force, all of them, and all 18 of the United

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States intelligence agencies. There's a lot more than just the CIA and the Defense Intelligence

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Agency and the NSA. There's 18 of them, right? And then there's 32 United States Defense Department

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agencies. All of them were ordered by Congress and the President to take 300 days to gather together

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all... Every single piece of information that they had about the UFO phenomenon,

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and about any non-human intelligence that was understood to be responsible for the UFO phenomenon,

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and gathered all together, put it into digital format with an index so that it's recoverable

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and insuriable and have it ready by October 20th of 2024 to be turned over... The Senate bill

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said immediately to the National Archives that got changed in the House, but only in a minor way,

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in which they said they were to turn it over as soon as possible after having it compiled.

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But that whole process was extraordinarily important and it was a key portion of the bill

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that the Senate passed, and that got passed by Congress. That is the law right now. So that whole

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process is going on right now. So the bottom line is that piece got passed. You know, the big thing

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in the Senate bill that did not get passed was the creation of an independent panel that was a

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board of review that the Senate had proposed that be an independent board of review that got to

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look through all of this information and decide how much of it is going to be made public.

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They put in a provision that the President of the United States could personally postpone

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the public revelation of any piece of information that the board chose to make public,

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but that was a big piece that was cut out. The House didn't agree to allow an independent panel

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to review all of this information and decide how much is going to be made public. So the information

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has to be gathered together and made available in the National Archives, but then it doesn't necessarily

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have to go anywhere. That's where we are right now. But the Senate, the Senate Intelligence Committee

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people and the House Intelligence Committee people will get to see it. And that's a key thing,

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you know, to get the Congress briefed in on what it is that the executive branch has been doing

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all of these years since the last 80 years, basically. It goes back to basically January 1st of

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1945 is the actual operative date in the statute. Every piece of information, every phone call,

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every memo, every internal study, every report of a UFO sighting, every single piece of information

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that they have has to be put into this compendium. So that's happening. That's happening right now.

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That's amazing. And will that be public or that is going to be a really good question?

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As of right now, the operative order of the Senate was that it had to be turned over immediately

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on October 20th to the National Archives and be made available to the members of the Intelligence

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Committee. Okay. The House has changed that language to be made available as soon as possible,

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which is a wiggle phrase. You know, the question is how quickly are they going to turn it over?

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But they have to have it compiled by October 20th. So that's the law right now. And a lot of

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people, even in the UFO community, just think, oh, the law got gutted. It got made up. That's

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fascinating. But this is extraordinary. That's really important. But another very important part of

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the law is the idea that government is going to declare evident domain over UFOs, the actual

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crafts that these aerospace companies have in their possession. Will they have the right to do it

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if they choose to? Yeah. But that got gutted. But that got gutted. That is no longer part of the bill.

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And my understanding of the behind the scenes, what might have happened is Mike Turner, who is on

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the chair of this House Intelligence Committee. The House Intelligence Committee, but also

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represents Dayton, Ohio, which is where Wright Patterson Air Force Base says all the UFO rumors are

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centered around Wright Patterson Air Force Base, the them holding kind of craft. And his top three

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donors are I think Lockheed. You know, I don't want to mess up the other two, but two other big

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aerospace companies. And you know, he works through Mike Johnson to kind of take that out of the

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Schumer. That's right. And so I find that interesting. Where do you think a company like Lockheed Martin

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actually see like how do you think they see the UFO thing? Because it is a profit making potential

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profit. There's no doubt about it. Yeah. Well Ben Rich is the president of Skunk Works. Their most

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secretive division used to call UFOs unfunded opportunities. And then in 2016, 2017, you know,

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they're working with Tom DeLong who's the Blink 182 frontman and you have Rob Weiss who is

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you know, Ben Rich's successor at Skunk Works. He emails between him and Tom DeLong that were

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revealed through WikiLeaks where it's clear that Lockheed wants to like talk more about the UFO

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phenomena. But then they work through a guy like Mike Turner later, you know, last year to kill

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this bill. So that feels a little skit to Frank. They sort of want to do it on their own terms or

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they just they want to get they want to get Congress to know enough about it, which they don't yet

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to agree to set up a law that authorizes them to get patent rights. That's what they want.

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They want to get patent rights to the technology so that the United States government for the next

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thousand years when it wants to have access to to any of the technology of the UFOs for super

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aluminum flight or anti-gravity stuff is going to have to license it from from the private company

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and pay them a ton of money for it. I mean, it's just absolutely, you know, it's just

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average and greed, you know, got it. So that makes sense. So they want like a broader

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public knowledge or surface area on the topic, but they don't want any of their IP taken out of

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the company. That's right. Yeah, I mean that makes sense. They want to make as much money as

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possible on it. And here here we have an event taking place of the the world getting ready to be

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made aware of the fact that there's this humongous other civilization around us in our galaxy.

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What's the evidence that it's extraterrestrial and not some time traveler or like the fact the

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fact that people have been faced to face with them and had telepathic communication share,

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sure, but for every one that says they're from Zeta Ritekuli, they also say they're from the future

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and they're also super deceptive and say all sorts of other crazy stuff. Those are people in the

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UFO community who say all that. They kind of make up stuff, you know, but the fact of the matter is

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it's just as plain as day. No, but I mean if you look at the Edgar Mitchell database, any of the

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databases around this stuff actually think it's split. Like I don't think it's clear that they're

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from another planet. In fact, if there's one hominid species on earth that's sentient up right

[0:20:26 - 0:20:33] ▶

by pedal that has advanced technology and it's us and there are 20 billion earth-like planets in

[0:20:33 - 0:20:39] ▶

the Milky Way galaxy, but they're over a trillion on earth-like planets. And we're seeing a thing

[0:20:39 - 0:20:45] ▶

that looks like us. They're hominid. So the likelihood of evolutionary convergence on a totally

[0:20:45 - 0:20:51] ▶

foreign planet is just super, super slim. And so the Occam's razor explanation would actually be

[0:20:51 - 0:20:57] ▶

that there's something emanating from, they're sort of related to mankind. And they could be

[0:20:57 - 0:21:03] ▶

interstellar, they could be a different timeline interacting with us. I just think we have to widen

[0:21:03 - 0:21:08] ▶

the aperture of possibility. Oh yeah, no, no, I mean they're, but not to the point of just obfuscating.

[0:21:08 - 0:21:15] ▶

Yeah, obvious. Sure. Yeah, there's a thing, there's a phenomena, but I do think that's called the

[0:21:15 - 0:21:20] ▶

phenomena for a reason because it's sort of really hard to classify. Well, it's because the

[0:21:20 - 0:21:24] ▶

conversation that you're talking about now has, has, as said,

[0:21:25 - 0:21:29] ▶

seriously excluded all the evidence of face-to-face contact that people have had. I mean, there are

[0:21:29 - 0:21:36] ▶

thousands of people who've had face-to-face contact in telepathic communications with the

[0:21:36 - 0:21:43] ▶

actual occupants of the craft, which there's this huge effort to kind of pretend that isn't true,

[0:21:43 - 0:21:48] ▶

like that isn't true, because there aren't enough government-circled people in scientific

[0:21:48 - 0:21:54] ▶

community people who've affirmed it yet. Well, that's a good segue. And with the first UFO-related

[0:21:54 - 0:22:00] ▶

person you represented is John Mack. That's right. And John Mack was the head of the Harvard

[0:22:00 - 0:22:04] ▶

Psychiatry Department. And I think he threw his friend Bud Hopkins, his childhood friend,

[0:22:04 - 0:22:10] ▶

started to see all these cases, these people who know mental health history. Right. It wasn't even

[0:22:10 - 0:22:17] ▶

always through hypnotic regression. They would just say, I had these experiences where I was

[0:22:17 - 0:22:22] ▶

abducted by these aliens. And he started to take it very seriously. And so, yeah, what do you

[0:22:22 - 0:22:28] ▶

think about John Mack and his investigations? Well, I represented him for 10 years and met

[0:22:28 - 0:22:36] ▶

dozens of people that he had worked with, was involved in vetting them to determine which ones

[0:22:36 - 0:22:42] ▶

were credible and which ones weren't. What detailed information they had. And have talked to

[0:22:42 - 0:22:49] ▶

several absolutely totally credible witnesses that I could put in front of any American jury.

[0:22:50 - 0:22:55] ▶

And the jury would be absolutely clear that they were telling them the truth,

[0:22:56 - 0:23:00] ▶

who have had direct face-to-face contact with one or more of these extraterrestrial beings.

[0:23:00 - 0:23:07] ▶

You know, they have them in American underground military bases.

[0:23:07 - 0:23:11] ▶

They have the beings. They have the beings. So, they've interviewed the beings. I've talked to

[0:23:12 - 0:23:17] ▶

people who were there when they were interviewing the beings. Where are the beings?

[0:23:17 - 0:23:21] ▶

Being that particular one was at S4. And Area 51. Outside of here, it's about 11 miles away.

[0:23:22 - 0:23:29] ▶

I would totally distrust that, but I have some good friends who are very trustworthy. So,

[0:23:29 - 0:23:34] ▶

there are a couple. And the husband broke the world record for the biggest wave ever surfed.

[0:23:34 - 0:23:38] ▶

And Nazarey Portugal, his name is Garrett Mack, Amara, and her name is Nicole. And they're very good

[0:23:38 - 0:23:43] ▶

people. And they would just never lie. And they have a friend who worked at Area 51, or might be a

[0:23:43 - 0:23:49] ▶

friend of a friend, but they met him. And he was totally traumatized. And after having worked there.

[0:23:49 - 0:23:55] ▶

And he said that he was led down into a basement. And he saw reptilian creatures. And they were

[0:23:56 - 0:24:03] ▶

speaking English. Well, they were telepathic. They were telepathic. And they talked French to

[0:24:03 - 0:24:10] ▶

French people. They talked German to German people. But they're telepathic. But isn't that strange,

[0:24:10 - 0:24:15] ▶

though, right? Strange, yes. Yes, there's no doubt about that. So, but then, if they're that

[0:24:15 - 0:24:20] ▶

advanced, they're telepathic. They can fly faster than how the hell do we corral them into

[0:24:20 - 0:24:27] ▶

underground bases against their will? Or is it, are they happy to be kept? Well, one of the ones

[0:24:27 - 0:24:33] ▶

that I was talking to the guy who was there when they were interviewing one of them, it was clear

[0:24:33 - 0:24:38] ▶

that it was voluntary that the extraterrestrial being was voluntarily talking with them, which

[0:24:38 - 0:24:44] ▶

share was having telepathic communications. So, these being interviewed. They're just kind of

[0:24:44 - 0:24:48] ▶

hanging out in these bases. Well, that I wouldn't put it that way. What do they want? Why, why, why,

[0:24:48 - 0:24:55] ▶

what happened? What happened is Albert Stein was this guy's name. He called me on his deathbed.

[0:24:55 - 0:25:04] ▶

He was dying up in northern Minnesota. Called me in one meet to come and see him right away,

[0:25:05 - 0:25:13] ▶

because he was dying. And so, I flew there and went and met him at the hospice. And he's sitting

[0:25:13 - 0:25:18] ▶

there with all the tubes in him and dying. And he said, look, he had to tell somebody about this,

[0:25:18 - 0:25:23] ▶

he was the United States Army, was assigned as a clerk typist to project Blue Book. And that

[0:25:23 - 0:25:32] ▶

while Blue Book had this whole buffaloing operation going on, telling people that it was swamp gas and

[0:25:32 - 0:25:39] ▶

birds that they had misidentified, that there were over 700 actual sightings that they found

[0:25:39 - 0:25:45] ▶

it absolutely impossible to discount. That they couldn't come up with it because too many people

[0:25:45 - 0:25:50] ▶

had seen him, you know, there were too many corroborating witnesses. There was radar,

[0:25:50 - 0:25:54] ▶

eye tracking and everything. And he was assigned to the group that was investigating those sightings.

[0:25:54 - 0:26:00] ▶

And he would just send people out to interview all the people that had seen one of these things.

[0:26:01 - 0:26:07] ▶

And then they'd come back and give them, give him their reports and he would type them all up.

[0:26:07 - 0:26:11] ▶

And he was there for years and got to be close friends with the guy who was the commander of that

[0:26:11 - 0:26:17] ▶

unit. And the guy came into after a number of years, they shared certain kind of religious views

[0:26:17 - 0:26:24] ▶

he with the commander. And the commander came in and told him that he was going to be going to

[0:26:25 - 0:26:31] ▶

Area 51 and wanted him to come with him as the clerk typist, just a kind of monitor what they

[0:26:31 - 0:26:37] ▶

were doing. So they went to Area 51, they got taken to S4, went down a number of flights, down at S4,

[0:26:37 - 0:26:46] ▶

and they came to this area where there was this big room with a two-way mirror in it.

[0:26:47 - 0:26:55] ▶

And there was an extraterrestrial being there. He was like, you know, five and a half feet,

[0:26:55 - 0:27:00] ▶

almost six feet tall, had a kind of a light blue jump suit on that they'd given him and he was

[0:27:00 - 0:27:05] ▶

standing there. And this guy, Albert, wouldn't go near him. He was just traumatized by the guy.

[0:27:05 - 0:27:14] ▶

And he said he thought he was demonic and didn't want to go near him. But his commander went in

[0:27:14 - 0:27:21] ▶

and was having this telepathic communication going out with him. And so he stayed outside and the

[0:27:21 - 0:27:27] ▶

people that were there staffing the area, they showed him they had these card files where they

[0:27:27 - 0:27:34] ▶

had been interviewing the being voluntarily. And he was answering questions that they had.

[0:27:34 - 0:27:40] ▶

And one of the questions was, you know, where do you come from? And he said that he was part of a

[0:27:41 - 0:27:48] ▶

group of beings. They were from different star systems in our galaxy. And that they were part of a

[0:27:49 - 0:27:57] ▶

team that were going around inside the galaxy, checking on places where life had actually begun

[0:27:58 - 0:28:06] ▶

on different planets. And they were sort of monitoring what they were doing.

[0:28:06 - 0:28:10] ▶

And they asked the follow-up question. They said, well, who's in charge of that? What kind of,

[0:28:11 - 0:28:16] ▶

they didn't say it this way, but what kind of juridical entity, you know, is there that's

[0:28:17 - 0:28:21] ▶

coordinating this kind of a thing? And he said, well, you people would refer to it as God.

[0:28:21 - 0:28:28] ▶

But it's very different from what you think. It's what he said. And so they specifically said

[0:28:29 - 0:28:37] ▶

that they were from different star systems and different planets inside our galaxy.

[0:28:37 - 0:28:41] ▶

And there he was. They didn't go more into the God thing. How it's different than what?

[0:28:42 - 0:28:45] ▶

That's what he told me. And he wanted to share that with me. And he said that he didn't believe

[0:28:45 - 0:28:51] ▶

him. He didn't believe it because he thought he was demonic. And therefore he wasn't ever going,

[0:28:51 - 0:28:57] ▶

he never told anybody about this in his life. And he was dying. So he wanted to tell me that

[0:28:57 - 0:29:02] ▶

this had happened. This guy was on his deathbed. Yeah. Really? What's his name? His name is Albert Stein.

[0:29:02 - 0:29:09] ▶

Albert Stein. He was a clerk. A clerk? A clerk? A US Army clerk typist.

[0:29:09 - 0:29:13] ▶

A blue-buss. A sign to blue book. To this special division of blue book. There was investigating the

[0:29:13 - 0:29:18] ▶

700. That's absolutely insane. Do you have a video of you talking to him?

[0:29:19 - 0:29:24] ▶

That no. He just wanted to have me come and see him. So I went and sat and talked to him.

[0:29:24 - 0:29:31] ▶

Do you have other deathbed confessions like that? No. I have interviews that I've done with people

[0:29:31 - 0:29:39] ▶

live. People who have had different cases of cancer. For example, Barbara Lamb. Barbara Lamb?

[0:29:39 - 0:29:47] ▶

Now, Barbara Lamb was an associate of John Max. And she's a professional psychologist.

[0:29:47 - 0:29:54] ▶

And she had a practice of helping people who had had these kind of traumatic experiences of

[0:29:55 - 0:30:02] ▶

thinking, at least that they'd had a direct encounter with a landed UFO that was on the ground,

[0:30:02 - 0:30:08] ▶

that they would have a direct contact experience with the occupants. And most people find that

[0:30:08 - 0:30:14] ▶

fairly traumatic. And so she ended up counseling dozens and dozens of people over a 50-year

[0:30:14 - 0:30:22] ▶

career. She's like 90 years old. She just became 90 years old. And she's provided to us her

[0:30:22 - 0:30:30] ▶

archives of all the recordings of different people that she has had sessions with.

[0:30:30 - 0:30:36] ▶

Right? And so after all these years, 50 years of interviewing dozens of people who've had this

[0:30:36 - 0:30:43] ▶

kind of experience, she was kind of longing as she was approaching 90, kind of wishing she'd

[0:30:43 - 0:30:48] ▶

get to see one. She'd never seen a UFO. She'd never seen a bee. She was kind of lamenting this.

[0:30:48 - 0:30:56] ▶

And then one afternoon she came in out of her garden into her house. And here was this reptilian guy

[0:30:56 - 0:31:02] ▶

standing in her living room. Just standing right in the middle of her living room. And she was

[0:31:02 - 0:31:07] ▶

kind of taking a back. But he was giving off really kind of extremely friendly, positive vibes.

[0:31:07 - 0:31:14] ▶

He wasn't scaring her at all. And she came over to her and he said, look, you have been wanting to

[0:31:14 - 0:31:24] ▶

get to see one of us. And here I am. So I'm just wanting to let you know you've been doing this

[0:31:24 - 0:31:30] ▶

a long time. And so there I am. And then he turned around and left.

[0:31:30 - 0:31:35] ▶

Do you have any takes on the UFO thing that very few people agree with you on or that, you know,

[0:31:35 - 0:31:40] ▶

are really out of left field sounding to the average person or something?

[0:31:40 - 0:31:45] ▶

All of the world loved left. Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, in a world where like it's actually seen

[0:31:45 - 0:31:51] ▶

as somewhat conventional to believe in at least the phenomena itself, do you have any sort of

[0:31:51 - 0:31:57] ▶

really contrarian takes on how this stuff works? Or

[0:31:57 - 0:32:00] ▶

No, the what I do believe is that it has an awful lot to do with consciousness. Yeah.

[0:32:01 - 0:32:10] ▶

They're monitoring us trying to gauge our state of evolution of consciousness. Yeah, because

[0:32:11 - 0:32:18] ▶

that's a very big deal. Yeah, to them. Yeah. You know, they use it to drive their craft, to navigate,

[0:32:18 - 0:32:26] ▶

they do they tell up telepathically communicate, you know, that this whole thing of the level of

[0:32:26 - 0:32:31] ▶

consciousness that we're at is really important to them. Do you think legacy programs have made any

[0:32:31 - 0:32:36] ▶

sort of progress on this stuff? It's kind of a branch office of it, which is the remote viewing

[0:32:36 - 0:32:41] ▶

stuff that help put off in the targ and those guys have been involved in. You think that's still an

[0:32:41 - 0:32:47] ▶

effect and oh yeah, there's no doubt about that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's really sophisticated stuff.

[0:32:47 - 0:32:53] ▶

I mean, really sophisticated stuff. What gives you conviction there? I mean, obviously,

[0:32:53 - 0:32:57] ▶

it pops up in skin walkers at the Pentagon that they're studying it, you know, as part of A-tip

[0:32:57 - 0:33:02] ▶

and OSAP or whatever, but like that to me is small fish, you know, it's not a lot of money.

[0:33:02 - 0:33:06] ▶

Yeah, it's a big deal. When you know what they accomplished in that program, which they're

[0:33:06 - 0:33:13] ▶

lying about, everybody say, oh well, they didn't get very far, they kind of shut it down.

[0:33:13 - 0:33:18] ▶

So what do you think they actually accomplish? Well, I'll give an example. Yeah.

[0:33:18 - 0:33:22] ▶

Because I've read the whole file on it. Or are you just talking about like just

[0:33:23 - 0:33:28] ▶

McMonigal? No, I'm talking about Pat Price. Okay. What happened with Pat Price again?

[0:33:28 - 0:33:34] ▶

Pat Price was such an accomplished remote viewer. Yeah. That they actually, he got to a point

[0:33:34 - 0:33:44] ▶

where they, this one particular thing and the reason I saw this,

[0:33:44 - 0:33:48] ▶

parenthetically, is that I was asked to be the attorney for L-Round Hubbard. You were?

[0:33:49 - 0:33:55] ▶

You know, the Church of Scientology. No way. Yeah. So how would you connect Scientology or about

[0:33:55 - 0:34:00] ▶

viewing? I mean, I know how put off was Scientologists for some time, but how put off was in the,

[0:34:00 - 0:34:05] ▶

in so is Pat Price and so was Ingo Swarm. We're high level clear as a Church of Scientology.

[0:34:05 - 0:34:10] ▶

The FBI and the Justice Department in New York subpoenaed the top 10 people in the Church of

[0:34:10 - 0:34:15] ▶

Scientology in New York and ordered them to come in front of a grand jury. And they were going

[0:34:15 - 0:34:20] ▶

to be interrogating them in front of the grand jury. They called me again and I went up to New York

[0:34:20 - 0:34:24] ▶

because I'm admitted in the Southern District and I got an injunction shutting them down. So they

[0:34:24 - 0:34:28] ▶

couldn't do that because it's totally on the Constitutional again. And so they were so sort of

[0:34:28 - 0:34:34] ▶

inemored of me that they talked with, Ron Hubbard and Ron Hubbard wanted to have me be the lawyer

[0:34:34 - 0:34:40] ▶

for them. You know, with him and his wife Susan, you know, against the IRS, that whole thing they

[0:34:40 - 0:34:45] ▶

were doing. So I said that look, I wouldn't even meet with Ron Hubbard unless there was a condition

[0:34:45 - 0:34:52] ▶

preseason that I could be given access to every single document anywhere in the world in the internal

[0:34:52 - 0:34:58] ▶

files of the Church of Scientology. I figured that was a real nonstarter, right? Of course. And

[0:34:58 - 0:35:02] ▶

within a week they came back and said it's a deal. What do you want to see? And so I speak

[0:35:02 - 0:35:07] ▶

of Query anybody's e-meter results? Yeah, anything. I could get anything I wanted. And so they flew me

[0:35:07 - 0:35:13] ▶

down to Florida and the big blue cube they've got down there, this big, huge blue building.

[0:35:13 - 0:35:20] ▶

And so I go in and there's the head of the Guardian's office, US Guardian's office and the

[0:35:21 - 0:35:27] ▶

international head of the guardians, you know, out of the UK. And they say, so what do you want to see?

[0:35:27 - 0:35:33] ▶

And I said, well, first, what I want to see is the file you got on me in the American guy said,

[0:35:33 - 0:35:41] ▶

no, why, no, we've got, I don't know. And I said, excuse me. I said, wait, I fell off some

[0:35:41 - 0:35:47] ▶

melon lag and somewhere. I said, you know, you're going to have me to be at Elrond Hubbard's

[0:35:47 - 0:35:50] ▶

turning. You don't have any file on me at all in the international guys. Yeah, go get him the file.

[0:35:51 - 0:35:56] ▶

So they bring me the file. I'm going through. How deep was it? How much stuff did they have?

[0:35:56 - 0:36:00] ▶

Well, they had, you know, pictures of me. I was a judge with Kennedy. I was at the headquarters.

[0:36:00 - 0:36:06] ▶

You know, they were following me around and showed me different restaurants, you know,

[0:36:06 - 0:36:09] ▶

in meeting with people, you know, Mark Lane and some of the other guys. So they had the name, he was like

[0:36:09 - 0:36:14] ▶

Kennedy assassination, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the rest of the judgment. He was the author of that.

[0:36:15 - 0:36:19] ▶

You know, so they had all these kind of things. And so I said, okay, good. I just wanted to make

[0:36:19 - 0:36:23] ▶

sure that it was accurate, you know, and then so the international guy says, okay, so what else

[0:36:23 - 0:36:29] ▶

do I see? I said, I want to see the three most sensitive files in the entire world, according to you,

[0:36:29 - 0:36:35] ▶

as the head of the Guardians office. You know, and he just went, oh, fuck, he said, I said, so, so

[0:36:35 - 0:36:41] ▶

either you get them or not. You know, so he gets up and is gone and revelings is around, comes back

[0:36:41 - 0:36:48] ▶

and he ends up laying one of the files in front of me. And I started looking at it and it was all

[0:36:48 - 0:36:54] ▶

reports by Ingo Swan. Now what Ingo Swan was filing reports with the head guardian office in

[0:36:54 - 0:37:00] ▶

in the UK about the entire internal operations of the Office of Naval Intelligence remote viewing

[0:37:00 - 0:37:06] ▶

program that they were doing. He was just giving them all the information. And they he was a spy or

[0:37:06 - 0:37:11] ▶

something. Yeah, well, he was a spy for the Church of Scientology. For the Church of Scientology.

[0:37:11 - 0:37:17] ▶

Over and against the Office of Naval Intelligence. Why would he do that? Because he was a high level

[0:37:17 - 0:37:21] ▶

clearer. That was his loyalty group. So that he was a preused loyal to them prior to that's right.

[0:37:21 - 0:37:29] ▶

That's right. Over and above. Because I always thought put off was like looking into that stuff.

[0:37:29 - 0:37:33] ▶

Because he was like an NSA guy before he was a Scientology guy. So I thought put off was just like

[0:37:33 - 0:37:38] ▶

tasked to like looking into this, you know, very, you know, para governmental intelligence organization.

[0:37:38 - 0:37:47] ▶

That is Scientology that's seen as a threat. And so you know, put get put off in there.

[0:37:47 - 0:37:50] ▶

No, this is a stuff. I mean, the Church of Scientology, you're not aware of it, that their highest

[0:37:50 - 0:37:56] ▶

principle in the Church of Scientology is all to do with UFOs.

[0:37:57 - 0:38:02] ▶

Really? Yeah. They believe that there is a major confrontation going on between the human

[0:38:02 - 0:38:10] ▶

like people from the Pleiades over against the reptilians from Zeta, particularly. And that there's

[0:38:10 - 0:38:17] ▶

a major confrontation going on over which of them is going to actually assert major relations with

[0:38:17 - 0:38:23] ▶

our planet. Do you agree with that world? No, I don't. But but Swan was like fully and with the

[0:38:23 - 0:38:30] ▶

Scientologist giving down information on the Office of Naval Intelligence. And so you're also

[0:38:30 - 0:38:35] ▶

saying that there's a remote viewing program that was deeper than Stargate because that was an

[0:38:35 - 0:38:38] ▶

office of Naval Intelligence. That was the DIA after CIA. Yeah. No, this this was probably in Pat

[0:38:38 - 0:38:44] ▶

Price. I'll choose some idea. Deep this goes. Pat Price, you know, they had the file and

[0:38:44 - 0:38:49] ▶

Goswan had the file that Pat Price had gotten so good and remote viewing that they assigned him

[0:38:49 - 0:38:55] ▶

a task of they gave him the exact longitudinal attitude down to the minute and second of a location.

[0:38:56 - 0:39:00] ▶

And he was assigned an artist so that he didn't have to do these henscratches trying to show it.

[0:39:01 - 0:39:06] ▶

But he was and he was saying, you know, I so what's there? So there's this major building here.

[0:39:06 - 0:39:12] ▶

And there's big big fence up with the razor wire on the top of it and everything. And his

[0:39:13 - 0:39:18] ▶

facilitator was was Russell Tark. And so Russell is saying, okay, now can can you get inside the

[0:39:18 - 0:39:26] ▶

fence? Can you see anything inside the fence? He goes, yeah, okay. All right, yeah, I can I can see

[0:39:26 - 0:39:31] ▶

inside the fence. There's just this nomads land there. Can you get to the front door of this place?

[0:39:31 - 0:39:36] ▶

And he said, all right, he said, okay, all right, I got it. Yeah, okay, I'm in front of the front door.

[0:39:36 - 0:39:41] ▶

He said, can you go inside the building? He said, let me see here. Okay, yeah, yeah, I can see

[0:39:41 - 0:39:47] ▶

I can see inside the building here. I said, so what do you see? See this big large hallway.

[0:39:47 - 0:39:52] ▶

There's some doors on both sides. And then Russell said, now go down to the third door on the left.

[0:39:53 - 0:40:00] ▶

He said, okay, can you go into the room? You haven't go into the room. So what do you see?

[0:40:01 - 0:40:05] ▶

Well, there's big desk there and chairs and stuff. There's a big file cabinet over in the right

[0:40:06 - 0:40:10] ▶

corner over here. Go over to the file cabinet. There's over the file cabinet. There's a second drawer.

[0:40:10 - 0:40:16] ▶

First file. Read it to me. And he did it. Well, that's not the point. The point is that he did it.

[0:40:17 - 0:40:26] ▶

Yeah, and he can do it, you know, it turns out it's an American facility. It's a top CIA security

[0:40:27 - 0:40:32] ▶

facility. Yeah, but that's insane then. So that's anybody with remote viewing skills can get

[0:40:32 - 0:40:37] ▶

the nuclear codes. Not anybody, but Pat Price could. The best. So that's Pat Price, right?

[0:40:37 - 0:40:42] ▶

And in the same file, it points out that Pat Price could actually evolve to the point where they

[0:40:43 - 0:40:48] ▶

could take a full photograph of a boomer class Russian submarine, nuclear submarine and show it to him.

[0:40:48 - 0:40:56] ▶

And say, where is it right now? And he would give him right down to the exact longitude and

[0:40:56 - 0:41:04] ▶

latitude down to the minute and second of exactly where that is. And he visualized the whole thing

[0:41:04 - 0:41:10] ▶

and told him exactly where it was. But there was a huge UFO right over the top of the water where

[0:41:10 - 0:41:17] ▶

that thing was. And it was tracking it and monitoring it. And he got in the file. You know, I'm going,

[0:41:17 - 0:41:24] ▶

well, I said, this is this is pretty pretty wild. And then I said, okay, so what else have you got?

[0:41:24 - 0:41:34] ▶

You know, he says, well, here, and he said, I said, show me the show me the second file.

[0:41:35 - 0:41:38] ▶

And he showed me the second file. And it was the again, from Ingoswan. It was a deep inside report

[0:41:39 - 0:41:45] ▶

from Ingoswan that they had taken Pat Price in the program up to Southern Canada, South Central

[0:41:45 - 0:41:52] ▶

Canada, just north of the state of Michigan. And he was at the brim of this little facility.

[0:41:52 - 0:41:59] ▶

He was like this little domed little building. And he had these big huge dishes on top,

[0:41:59 - 0:42:06] ▶

these communication dishes on top. And they brought him in and they set him down and they put

[0:42:06 - 0:42:12] ▶

this helmet on him. And they had him think a particular message. And they turned all the

[0:42:12 - 0:42:20] ▶

antenna down to the northern peninsula of Michigan, that little section that's in there,

[0:42:21 - 0:42:27] ▶

and had him be telepathically projecting, you know, when it comes time for you to file your

[0:42:27 - 0:42:34] ▶

national US income tax forms next year, file them in this little post office box down this little

[0:42:34 - 0:42:41] ▶

pound down in West Virginia. And 85% of the people did it next year.

[0:42:41 - 0:42:48] ▶

No way. Absolutely way. That's insane. Do you keep saying that?

[0:42:48 - 0:42:54] ▶

So you're saying you're saying that? I'm saying what the Scientology had some sort of

[0:42:54 - 0:42:58] ▶

mind-mass mind control. There wasn't the Church of Scientology.

[0:42:59 - 0:43:02] ▶

What was this? This was the program. This was the program. But that's like the implications

[0:43:02 - 0:43:09] ▶

of that are crazy. No, they're profound. Yeah. Not quite quite crazy. Well it's crazy.

[0:43:09 - 0:43:15] ▶

What do you think that there is a part of our government that interacts systematically with

[0:43:15 - 0:43:21] ▶

this other life form? Because like if you watch the movie Contact, you know, Jody Foster walks into

[0:43:22 - 0:43:28] ▶

the, you know, this plane. And it's almost like the implication is this guy who's been like kind

[0:43:28 - 0:43:35] ▶

of tracking her. But he's part of this strata of the world that's just very elite and he kind of

[0:43:35 - 0:43:40] ▶

interfaced with a multi-billionaire guy. Do you think that that is the case in our world?

[0:43:40 - 0:43:47] ▶

I put it a little bit differently. Yeah. I have no doubt whatsoever. No doubt what's zero doubt

[0:43:47 - 0:43:53] ▶

that there's an element inside our government structures that is part of the intelligence community

[0:43:54 - 0:44:03] ▶

as part of the military that have direct knowledge about the existence of these extraterrestrial

[0:44:03 - 0:44:12] ▶

beings that are here on the planet. But are they systematically in touch with them?

[0:44:12 - 0:44:17] ▶

Like, do we have treaties or agreements or? That's a question of degree now. The question

[0:44:17 - 0:44:23] ▶

then would be is the, in light of the fact that they know that they're here, that it would be

[0:44:23 - 0:44:28] ▶

almost impossible to believe that they hadn't made efforts to have some kind of communication with them.

[0:44:28 - 0:44:34] ▶

Sure. They are going to just let them sit there. Would you take that a step farther now and say that we've

[0:44:34 - 0:44:39] ▶

made agreements? Yeah, it would be a made agreement. Well, you have to take it one step at a time.

[0:44:39 - 0:44:43] ▶

That I think that they clearly would have made the effort to have communication with them.

[0:44:43 - 0:44:48] ▶

So the next question you have to ask is, is it reasonable to believe that the beings would have

[0:44:48 - 0:44:54] ▶

communicated with them at all? There does seem to be some sort of a tacit understanding that they

[0:44:54 - 0:45:03] ▶

have about being able to coexist in some way whereby the United States government isn't going to

[0:45:03 - 0:45:10] ▶

just run out and say, oh, everybody, there's beings from another system, you know, star system

[0:45:10 - 0:45:16] ▶

here on Earthly, you know, so they obviously have got some sort of protocol established here where

[0:45:16 - 0:45:21] ▶

they're not going to be revealing it and the beings themselves are not just going to land on

[0:45:21 - 0:45:26] ▶

the central park and tell everybody. Why do you think the UFO stuff needs to come out? Is

[0:45:26 - 0:45:30] ▶

they're a forcing function? Because I go back and forth myself where, you know, I think actually

[0:45:30 - 0:45:37] ▶

people who know me well are surprised that like I'm as skeptical as I am, even though like I

[0:45:37 - 0:45:44] ▶

do all these interviews or whatever, where it just feels like a lot of the thinking is really

[0:45:44 - 0:45:50] ▶

lazy and poor, you know, we talked earlier about the example of like, you know, there are just so

[0:45:50 - 0:45:54] ▶

many siops and stuff. I was sitting in the UFO hearing and I was just like, these people don't know

[0:45:54 - 0:46:00] ▶

any. Like, honestly, I had two thoughts simultaneously. One is I'm so moved that this is happening,

[0:46:00 - 0:46:06] ▶

this is amazing, this is a watershed moment. And then on the other hand, if you wanted to pull off

[0:46:06 - 0:46:11] ▶

a siop on these people, on like the government itself, on the civilian government, it would be easy

[0:46:11 - 0:46:17] ▶

because they have no idea, you know, they're getting spoon fed all sorts of stuff.

[0:46:17 - 0:46:20] ▶

Exactly. I actually was with a friend yesterday who told me and I'll keep him anonymous, but he's a

[0:46:20 - 0:46:27] ▶

prominent professor at a, you know, a pretty well-respected university who looks at this stuff kind of

[0:46:27 - 0:46:33] ▶

behind the scenes, the UFO stuff. And he was talking about evidence given to a congressional staffer,

[0:46:33 - 0:46:39] ▶

congressional staffer gave it to him and some of his hardcore uapologist friends. And they were like,

[0:46:39 - 0:46:45] ▶

oh, this is a hoax from 30 years ago. And the staffer went pale on the face because he was so sure

[0:46:45 - 0:46:51] ▶

that he was given this stuff in a classified setting, in a skiff, as if it was real. And so this is

[0:46:51 - 0:46:57] ▶

like, no, not crazy. So you got your finger right on it right now, Jesse, is that the level of

[0:46:57 - 0:47:04] ▶

non-confidence on the part of all human beings, all organizations, you know, is more than their

[0:47:04 - 0:47:12] ▶

image they project. You know, that they got a whole marketing thing. You know, here's who we are,

[0:47:12 - 0:47:17] ▶

how effective we are, how perfect we are, etc. But if you really become more and more familiar with

[0:47:17 - 0:47:22] ▶

the details of it, you really realize that there are all kinds of vulnerabilities that that organization

[0:47:22 - 0:47:28] ▶

had. The thing that actually makes me think there's that they are there is there like a lot of

[0:47:28 - 0:47:33] ▶

pretty serious people involved, you know, I've become decently close with Carl Nell and like,

[0:47:33 - 0:47:39] ▶

I consider Grush a really good friend at this point. Sure. And it's like these guys are pretty

[0:47:39 - 0:47:44] ▶

hardcore, they're very knowledgeable. And it's like a big waste of human resources if it's just

[0:47:44 - 0:47:49] ▶

to sigh off. And so the question is, is there some sort of forcing function that is causing the

[0:47:49 - 0:47:55] ▶

program itself to allow some of these defectors out because they realize this thing is bursting at

[0:47:55 - 0:48:02] ▶

the seams and they need to get in front of it or something. Good start. Yeah, well, what do you think?

[0:48:02 - 0:48:07] ▶

Because my belief is like I take it face value and fully trust David Grush when he says that he

[0:48:08 - 0:48:14] ▶

sort of stumbled upon this stuff. And then where I think people are maybe a little naive and I kind

[0:48:14 - 0:48:20] ▶

of hinted at this in my interview with Grush is like whatever the defection is from the internal

[0:48:20 - 0:48:27] ▶

program has to be somewhat coordinated. These people have no immunity because they haven't come out.

[0:48:27 - 0:48:33] ▶

And so like the idea that they don't have some authoritative auspice under which they are operating.

[0:48:33 - 0:48:39] ▶

You know, they'd all be dead if they weren't. And so there's some somebody somewhat in charge in

[0:48:40 - 0:48:46] ▶

whatever programs that do exist. You know, as they've said, you can come out to this degree. That

[0:48:46 - 0:48:52] ▶

would be my mind. The whole disclosure. That's the key to it all. And then the question is,

[0:48:52 - 0:48:59] ▶

are we just seeing the tip of the iceberg and the tip of the iceberg looks nothing like the

[0:48:59 - 0:49:04] ▶

bottom of the iceberg or does the tip of the iceberg resemble the bottom of the iceberg. So we're

[0:49:04 - 0:49:08] ▶

getting a snapshot of what we knew maybe in the late 40s or early 50s and we're getting some

[0:49:08 - 0:49:14] ▶

sense of greater ontological truth. And it's just, you know, kind of we're working our way down

[0:49:14 - 0:49:19] ▶

into some core truth. I can see all these little three by five cars going up on the wall. You know,

[0:49:19 - 0:49:24] ▶

that you're kind of laying them out here. Here's the possibilities. There's this. It's all true.

[0:49:24 - 0:49:30] ▶

You got to get them all up in front of you. Yeah. And all the things that you're saying are things

[0:49:30 - 0:49:34] ▶

that merit exploration. You know, in some of them are internally and self-referentially consistent.

[0:49:34 - 0:49:40] ▶

Some of them aren't. Yeah. You know, so they can drop some of them down into different baskets

[0:49:40 - 0:49:44] ▶

that are consistent with each other. Yeah. That's how you go about doing this. Yeah. You know,

[0:49:44 - 0:49:48] ▶

and that obviously I've thought about all these things. Yeah. You know, and representing

[0:49:49 - 0:49:54] ▶

Lou and in talking with Carl and talking with David and you know, and discussing these things

[0:49:54 - 0:49:59] ▶

with them. You know, but I keep I consistently refused to get a security clearance. Yeah. I will

[0:49:59 - 0:50:05] ▶

not do that. Yeah. Because then whatever I know about, they're going to try to say I must have

[0:50:05 - 0:50:09] ▶

gotten it through the security clearance. And then I can't tell anybody. Right. You know, I'm

[0:50:09 - 0:50:13] ▶

not going to do that. Yeah. And I know more than a lot of them do. You're a Harvard-trained

[0:50:13 - 0:50:20] ▶

psychiatrist or a professor of psychiatry at Harvard to be exact. I admire John McElad. He

[0:50:20 - 0:50:25] ▶

seemed like a very earnest good guy. Yeah. What do you think his mission was at the end of his life?

[0:50:25 - 0:50:30] ▶

Like, do you think it was just to kind of destigmatize things for kind of the, you know, victims or

[0:50:30 - 0:50:36] ▶

abductees in these cases? Or was it to spread some sort of new worldview that he had? Or

[0:50:36 - 0:50:43] ▶

he had to do these two different missions. You know, he was running the peer group, the project

[0:50:43 - 0:50:47] ▶

for extraordinary experience research, and that I was legal counsel for the group. That was where I

[0:50:47 - 0:50:54] ▶

got to meet lots of experiences and help vet those people. And John and I had both cited more or

[0:50:54 - 0:50:59] ▶

less at my suggestion actually, so it turns out to try to train them. That if they're going to get

[0:50:59 - 0:51:04] ▶

repeatedly abducted, you know, why don't we train them to do a hot topic breathing and just stay calm

[0:51:04 - 0:51:10] ▶

when it starts to happen? And then question the ET people. And we'll give you a set of questions

[0:51:10 - 0:51:16] ▶

to get information from them, so that we can start getting direct line, have like a diplomatic

[0:51:16 - 0:51:21] ▶

reach out to these people. Did they get anything interesting? No, what it was is that she studied

[0:51:21 - 0:51:27] ▶

care and it was that she was furious at the UFO people because she'd been abducted and then

[0:51:27 - 0:51:34] ▶

when after that she'd been returned and couldn't remember exactly what happened, she found that she

[0:51:35 - 0:51:40] ▶

was pregnant and she hadn't been with anybody for like over a year. She couldn't understand what

[0:51:40 - 0:51:44] ▶

was going on and she was pregnant when all the way through to the end of the first trimester

[0:51:44 - 0:51:49] ▶

and she was going to the obstetrician and getting, she couldn't figure out what was going on

[0:51:50 - 0:51:55] ▶

and then she gets abducted again and she's not pregnant anymore. And she was just furious about

[0:51:56 - 0:52:03] ▶

this about what they were doing with her. So when they would show up again she would actually throw

[0:52:03 - 0:52:10] ▶

things at them. She would like throw lamps at them and you know kick them and throw

[0:52:10 - 0:52:14] ▶

things at them and then she was outraged at these guys, right? And she was one of the people that

[0:52:14 - 0:52:21] ▶

John was interviewing. She came to work with John. So we agreed she's a good candidate to kind of

[0:52:21 - 0:52:29] ▶

get her train to get her to calm down and do all that and we did that and the next time it started

[0:52:29 - 0:52:35] ▶

happening she used to say her like the hair would kind of start to stand up on her arms and she

[0:52:35 - 0:52:39] ▶

could get this weird feeling that it was getting ready to happen again so she could tell and so she

[0:52:39 - 0:52:43] ▶

started doing the hall traffic breathing and so these three little dudes show up in her living room

[0:52:43 - 0:52:49] ▶

they brought her under the craft you know totally conscious now about it and they have to take

[0:52:49 - 0:52:54] ▶

her off all her clothes and get in this pool this kind of like pool filled with this kind of gelatin

[0:52:54 - 0:52:59] ▶

kind of weird aquacolor gelatin stuff and she'd get in and she had to breathe it in and fill

[0:52:59 - 0:53:05] ▶

her lungs up with it and stay under there for a while and it was a very weird experience.

[0:53:05 - 0:53:11] ▶

Yeah and then they bring her to this other place she didn't they took her off the craft and brought

[0:53:11 - 0:53:16] ▶

it to the she couldn't she didn't see the environment she didn't see what was going on outdoors

[0:53:16 - 0:53:19] ▶

and there was this little hybrid like two-year-old girl you know real kind of stringy hair and kind of

[0:53:20 - 0:53:28] ▶

big eyes and wow but she knew instantaneously that that was her daughter. You know the critique

[0:53:28 - 0:53:32] ▶

everybody has the UFO things they say it's not scientific because it's inherently a femoral it's

[0:53:32 - 0:53:37] ▶

not repeatable I disagree they're no they say there are no patterns it's there are patterns

[0:53:37 - 0:53:42] ▶

the two patterns that I have noticed are one is people who are in heightened states of consciousness

[0:53:42 - 0:53:48] ▶

or engaging in specific protocols or whatever or the nuclear connection you have 170 ICBM

[0:53:48 - 0:53:57] ▶

security personnel radar operators people work at nuclear bases across the United States who

[0:53:57 - 0:54:03] ▶

are have to be the picture of mental health in fact many of them are on the PRP program the

[0:54:03 - 0:54:08] ▶

personal reliability program where they have to report if they're on ibuprofen yes because

[0:54:08 - 0:54:12] ▶

they're guarding the crown jewels of the United States defense yeah they hit the wrong button

[0:54:12 - 0:54:16] ▶

it's no not good for us and they claim to have consistently see anomalous objects in the sky

[0:54:16 - 0:54:22] ▶

sure around their nuclear bases in fact there's a really great book called the UFOs and nukes by

[0:54:22 - 0:54:27] ▶

guy named Robert Hastings where Chronicles all this stuff he's a super hard-headed you know detail

[0:54:27 - 0:54:33] ▶

oriented guy yeah and there was even a case in as late as 2010 right after he retired in 2008

[0:54:33 - 0:54:39] ▶

at F.E. Warren in Wyoming where there's an outage for an hour and wired magazine wrote it up

[0:54:40 - 0:54:45] ▶

and they're like why was it there's an outage at a nuclear base like that that's a big deal in

[0:54:45 - 0:54:49] ▶

and of itself Hastings backchanneled with the misleaders there and they're all like yeah there was a

[0:54:49 - 0:54:55] ▶

tic tac shaped object all-blown object flying in the sky that caused the outage and time and time

[0:54:55 - 0:55:01] ▶

again you hear of all these cases yeah those guys careers have been hit because of reporting this

[0:55:01 - 0:55:07] ▶

and the Air Force Office of Special Investigations continuously shows up and kind of makes their life

[0:55:07 - 0:55:11] ▶

a living hell after after they experienced this yeah so anyways to the people that say this isn't

[0:55:11 - 0:55:16] ▶

sort of a repeatable thing it's not true it's not true it's just just that they're ignorant yeah

[0:55:16 - 0:55:22] ▶

you know I mean the only thing worse than being ignorant is being ignorant and then arrogant about

[0:55:22 - 0:55:28] ▶

it yes yeah you know and that's the way it's a lot of the people are yeah and and so that what

[0:55:28 - 0:55:34] ▶

life said is I've just ignored that you know I say you know if a person is ignorant you don't have

[0:55:34 - 0:55:38] ▶

to beat up on them over it they're just ignorant you don't have to be insulting to them because if

[0:55:38 - 0:55:44] ▶

they're ignorant they don't know it and so they think you're wrong when you accuse them of being

[0:55:44 - 0:55:48] ▶

ignorant yeah so there's no advantage to that but but there's a whole other level of people in our

[0:55:48 - 0:55:54] ▶

human family that are not ignorant that that follow protocols and try to figure out what's really

[0:55:54 - 0:56:00] ▶

going on and that's what we're talking about here and in one of the most important issues that

[0:56:00 - 0:56:06] ▶

this element of our human family deal with is the UFO issue and the the reality is is that it mixes

[0:56:06 - 0:56:15] ▶

in with these psychic faculties and that the so even though you have something as dare I say

[0:56:15 - 0:56:22] ▶

prosaic as extraterrestrial beings who have been like two billion years more technologically advanced

[0:56:22 - 0:56:31] ▶

than we are and psychically advanced than we are you know who happened to have been figured out how

[0:56:31 - 0:56:36] ▶

to come and go from our planet okay bang you know but then there's all this other stuff there's all

[0:56:36 - 0:56:42] ▶

this other strange phenomenon that goes on on our planet that exists at this other level of insight

[0:56:42 - 0:56:48] ▶

such as the capacities of our human family to have telepathy and teleportation and astral travel

[0:56:48 - 0:56:56] ▶

and remote viewing and transmutation of matter you know and and and but what we've done is we've

[0:56:56 - 0:57:03] ▶

culturally riveted on some of these beings in the past like Jesus or Lao Tzu or De Buddha and say

[0:57:03 - 0:57:10] ▶

wow look what these look what these individuals have done and what they do is they build up a complete

[0:57:10 - 0:57:16] ▶

religion around these people and then they a tenet of the religion is that you can't do this yeah

[0:57:16 - 0:57:23] ▶

this one individual person could do this yeah and therefore there's something super

[0:57:24 - 0:57:29] ▶

nonhuman about them they're transcendental they're their spiritual they're they're

[0:57:29 - 0:57:33] ▶

formal they're from some other domain somewhere you know it's not true that what there is their

[0:57:33 - 0:57:39] ▶

mutations of our human family that as this faculty is evolving in our human family certain

[0:57:39 - 0:57:46] ▶

individuals have it more fully evolved than others and they attract attention when when this

[0:57:46 - 0:57:52] ▶

happens you know that's what's going on and as I say this is another another element that

[0:57:52 - 0:57:58] ▶

really intelligent thinking careful people who are not ignorant are interested in so you're

[0:57:59 - 0:58:07] ▶

saying it's almost the the medallayer to or the source code of religion in some ways yes there's

[0:58:07 - 0:58:13] ▶

no doubt about and it's funny because you know we you probably know Diana Poussolka's religious

[0:58:13 - 0:58:18] ▶

studies professor at UNC Wilmington she originally wrote a book called having can wait about

[0:58:18 - 0:58:23] ▶

Catholic purgatory and specifically she was chronicling a lot of divine intervention

[0:58:23 - 0:58:28] ▶

quote-unquote experiences from you know brothers and nuns people associated with the church

[0:58:28 - 0:58:33] ▶

yes people who were you know seen in her eyes as fairly credible witnesses and she would

[0:58:33 - 0:58:39] ▶

actually go back to the Greek and Latin of the translations and she would consistently find that

[0:58:39 - 0:58:46] ▶

there was almost a one-to-one match between that and the description of you know if you read John

[0:58:46 - 0:58:51] ▶

Max abductions you know book yeah it was the same thing it was like an orbs show like same

[0:58:51 - 0:58:56] ▶

Francis of a CC is you just sees a an orbs showing up yeah and you know he has radiation damage

[0:58:56 - 0:59:02] ▶

and so you know maybe we're actually uncovering sort of the source code of a lot of these sort of

[0:59:02 - 0:59:08] ▶

quote-unquote divine experiences though those true do you think that the angels and demons kind of

[0:59:08 - 0:59:15] ▶

nomenclature that's just been used you know across civilizations this that might that might just

[0:59:16 - 0:59:21] ▶

and the reason I ask is because there was actually there's a book called final events by

[0:59:22 - 0:59:25] ▶

again named Nick redfern and he talks about there's this evangelical Christian group that

[0:59:25 - 0:59:30] ▶

was very embedded in the CIA called the Collins elite and they were at right airfield

[0:59:30 - 0:59:35] ▶

and they were studying demonic entities and they were doing all sorts of weird cobalistic stuff

[0:59:36 - 0:59:42] ▶

and they were attracting these sort of you could say similar to you know the protocols of

[0:59:42 - 0:59:47] ▶

the amulacus like neoplateness or tomas Aquinas is kind of angel hierarchies this you know

[0:59:47 - 0:59:53] ▶

beings between us and god which have been believed in for centuries and they then came out of

[0:59:53 - 1:00:00] ▶

that study saying this stuff is demonic it's evil you know maybe we are actually living the book

[1:00:00 - 1:00:06] ▶

of revelations and this stuff showing up is you know greater greater preponderance is it is

[1:00:06 - 1:00:10] ▶

actually really bad and they started to campaign against it well there there are different lenses

[1:00:10 - 1:00:15] ▶

through which you a worldview that you can perceive this thing and there's no doubt that that is

[1:00:15 - 1:00:22] ▶

one of them you know that that is one of the lenses through which they're perceiving this entire

[1:00:22 - 1:00:26] ▶

operation which is that is that scary are we at the end of history or something that feels like

[1:00:26 - 1:00:30] ▶

sort of a paradigm shift no it is a paradigm shift but that doesn't mean you're at the end of

[1:00:30 - 1:00:35] ▶

history it means that you're there's sort of a full a glottal jump you know in consciousness

[1:00:35 - 1:00:42] ▶

that's what's happening right now and it's generating a lot of instability and people are

[1:00:42 - 1:00:47] ▶

becoming you know disconnected to reality and yeah not trusting in facts anymore and and speculating

[1:00:47 - 1:00:54] ▶

wildly and you know trying to figure out what's going on you know in the the UFO phenomenon is an

[1:00:54 - 1:01:01] ▶

integral part of that and the whole relationship of psychic capacities of our human family are

[1:01:01 - 1:01:08] ▶

directly related to this you know in the whole issue of religions trying to figure out you know

[1:01:08 - 1:01:16] ▶

whether there's some new religion that is a birthing here that relates this but remember that

[1:01:16 - 1:01:22] ▶

religion the Latin root of religion is Ray Lagare which is like to relinqu and ever since the evolution

[1:01:22 - 1:01:31] ▶

of the intellect in our species of homo sapiens sapiens the intellectus the Latin root of

[1:01:31 - 1:01:37] ▶

intellectus is is the ability to distinguish the difference between and so that we've been able

[1:01:37 - 1:01:43] ▶

to experientially experience the difference between ourselves and all the rest of our environment

[1:01:43 - 1:01:48] ▶

and that we've developed an intellect that is able to manipulate that and kind of computerize it

[1:01:48 - 1:01:54] ▶

and and mathematicize it and all of that and to primarily to manipulate the physical reality around

[1:01:54 - 1:02:01] ▶

do you think you know it almost feels like the most underrated narrative here it's not as much

[1:02:02 - 1:02:08] ▶

maybe about the crafts that we're trying to reverse engineer but it's about the people that seem

[1:02:08 - 1:02:12] ▶

to attract this phenomena and so like Betty and Barney Hill is this famous you know case in 1961

[1:02:12 - 1:02:19] ▶

you know they see this craft coming I think it's in Vermont or New Hampshire New Hampshire that's

[1:02:20 - 1:02:25] ▶

right and CD Jackson who's in the psychological strategy board under Eisenhower and also runs kind

[1:02:25 - 1:02:35] ▶

of our psychological warfare program during the war during the war and was the editor in chief of

[1:02:35 - 1:02:40] ▶

of life mega there you go for Henry Lee's yes he comes he goes to New Hampshire and and meets with

[1:02:40 - 1:02:51] ▶

Betty and Barney Hill and so there's this special interest on the part of the government among the

[1:02:51 - 1:02:54] ▶

people who've been contacted now you have this guy Chris Bludso in North Carolina who like you

[1:02:54 - 1:02:59] ▶

have this guy Jim Semi van it was a hardcore intel guy top-ranking CIA official he's been you know

[1:02:59 - 1:03:05] ▶

20-year intel career and he's some why is he showing up at Chris Bludso's house and asking him what

[1:03:05 - 1:03:11] ▶

he's you know Chris Bludso says he's encountered this divine feminine figure that says she's come from

[1:03:11 - 1:03:16] ▶

the dark side of the moon it's semi van just wasting his time spending time with him it almost

[1:03:16 - 1:03:21] ▶

feels like people are the conduit for this like esoteric information and there's a strata of intel

[1:03:21 - 1:03:28] ▶

that's interested in the people themselves all of that's true like like like Greer for example you

[1:03:28 - 1:03:33] ▶

worked with he started doing these C5 protocols and attracting the sort of alien stuff and then

[1:03:33 - 1:03:39] ▶

you got you have Albert Stubblebine and John Alexander getting in touch with him and it's almost

[1:03:40 - 1:03:46] ▶

like they're trying to recruit him into something like they become very interested in him because

[1:03:46 - 1:03:50] ▶

he's an attractor of this you're getting warm now okay so what is all this thing yeah right yeah

[1:03:50 - 1:03:56] ▶

well it what it means what it means is that there's a very definite psychic connection here

[1:03:56 - 1:04:04] ▶

what what we as human beings homosapiens refer to as psychic capacities you know telepathy

[1:04:05 - 1:04:12] ▶

you know precognition remote viewing capacities there's a whole series of carisms that are they're

[1:04:12 - 1:04:20] ▶

basically referred to in the Hindu stuff as cedars you know which is there a function of consciousness

[1:04:20 - 1:04:26] ▶

is that that clearly our human species is capable of of experiences that are not normal

[1:04:26 - 1:04:33] ▶

they're regular normal people don't have these experiences or at least they don't realize it

[1:04:34 - 1:04:38] ▶

my first year law school I had come up from Harvard College it had gone across the street to the

[1:04:38 - 1:04:43] ▶

law school and I had heard that Crane Brinton who was the the chairman of the Department of

[1:04:43 - 1:04:50] ▶

Intellectual History at Harvard for like 30 years and he was going to be doing his last lecture

[1:04:50 - 1:04:56] ▶

and he said he got it he said you know I've been asked a lecture on when I think the most important

[1:04:56 - 1:05:01] ▶

single intellectual insight of our human family is that I've encountered in my 50 years and he said

[1:05:01 - 1:05:07] ▶

and this is easy he said he said I think that all the greatest minds of our human family I have come

[1:05:07 - 1:05:12] ▶

to realize that our human family is right on the brink of its next step in biological evolution

[1:05:12 - 1:05:19] ▶

and that we're going to be evolving from homosapian sapien into the next stage of our biological

[1:05:20 - 1:05:26] ▶

evolution and the key factor that is going to differentiate the next species from us is this

[1:05:26 - 1:05:33] ▶

evolution of this faculty there's a faculty like seeing or hearing that that is able to directly

[1:05:33 - 1:05:41] ▶

and immediately experientially access a certain vibrational frequency that exists in the universe

[1:05:41 - 1:05:47] ▶

like light or like sound but that there's an extraordinarily subtle bonding phenomenon that bonds

[1:05:47 - 1:05:54] ▶

every single ultimately irreducible integer of matter in the entire physical universe into one

[1:05:54 - 1:05:59] ▶

unified harmonic whole said and that this is this is discernible it's extraordinarily subtle

[1:05:59 - 1:06:06] ▶

but there's a faculty that is evolving by means of which we can access this experience and when

[1:06:06 - 1:06:12] ▶

when when has this experience that it's like it's like a crystal set locking into a kind of a

[1:06:12 - 1:06:20] ▶

radio signal and that you lock into this unitive phenomenon in the universe and it can download all

[1:06:20 - 1:06:28] ▶

kinds of information to you non-linearly like seeing or hearing he said in that he said in that

[1:06:28 - 1:06:35] ▶

this faculty where at the brink of moving into this new species he said he said and I think

[1:06:35 - 1:06:41] ▶

he said he said to us all this is 1968 right this is like May of 1968 and he says and I think that's

[1:06:42 - 1:06:50] ▶

why so many of you young men here refuse to go fight in this war and Vietnam aha wow that's

[1:06:50 - 1:06:55] ▶

what he said to us in that lecture so he's saying that like you know Pierre Dishardan like the

[1:06:55 - 1:07:01] ▶

the the new spirit yeah no more like like the the sort of mental sheath around the earth that you

[1:07:01 - 1:07:09] ▶

can sort of tap into yeah the Russian the Russian cosmos sort of believed in something similar yeah

[1:07:09 - 1:07:14] ▶

sort of the Chinese interesting this first thing that Dr. Genjo Jing choving Dr. Genjo Jing

[1:07:14 - 1:07:19] ▶

the Chinese Academy of Social Science that they've got this this faculty in Beijing 300 of the

[1:07:19 - 1:07:26] ▶

top professors in all fields that are there for the Politburo and I met her that I was chairing for

[1:07:26 - 1:07:34] ▶

the state of the world forum for Gorbachev and for James Baker at the end of the the Cold War that

[1:07:34 - 1:07:40] ▶

I chaired a thing called the strategic initiative to identify the new paradigm and I met her in that

[1:07:40 - 1:07:47] ▶

context and she invited me to come to China and as soon as I started the first thing she did

[1:07:47 - 1:07:54] ▶

as she brought me to the laboratory showing me all these experiments they were doing with psychic

[1:07:54 - 1:07:59] ▶

abilities and they were exploring and trying to figure out what what all this was and so that this

[1:07:59 - 1:08:04] ▶

this is a very real thing that our human family is is going through right now it's a it's a transition

[1:08:04 - 1:08:11] ▶

into a kind of a new paradigm and the UFO stuff is part of it you know well aerospace has been

[1:08:11 - 1:08:19] ▶

very interested in parapsychology mind over matter for a very long time yeah sort of hidden it

[1:08:19 - 1:08:24] ▶

but like you have James McDonnell who's the patron of McDonnell Douglas he had a parapsychology

[1:08:24 - 1:08:29] ▶

institute in the 60s you had I think he was actually pretty close with Bob John who was the dean

[1:08:29 - 1:08:37] ▶

of engineering at Princeton who went on to start the Princeton anomalies you know pair and this

[1:08:37 - 1:08:43] ▶

is extraordinarily important it's really important and people people people who who goffai in

[1:08:43 - 1:08:48] ▶

in poke funnets are just not only ignorant but they're arrogant I just had a call with we all

[1:08:48 - 1:08:55] ▶

delete this if I'll ask him if I can put this in here but the head of revolutionary technologies

[1:08:55 - 1:08:59] ▶

at skunk works I think this is okay to say because he's on record sort of believing in this stuff

[1:08:59 - 1:09:03] ▶

but he's head of like the the program that you know like our our most important recon aircrafts

[1:09:03 - 1:09:11] ▶

just on an objective level come out of and he believes in all this stuff he's I mean he's I mean

[1:09:11 - 1:09:15] ▶

he I think he's on record if he didn't he shouldn't be in this position yeah totally need to know

[1:09:15 - 1:09:20] ▶

exact if anything can procure an advantage for them they have to be studying it yeah and so yeah

[1:09:20 - 1:09:26] ▶

it's very interesting just how interested they are in this sort of mind over matter stuff and it's

[1:09:26 - 1:09:31] ▶

almost like a cleavage between academia which shut down that you know all ideas around

[1:09:31 - 1:09:36] ▶

parapsychology in the 70s through 90s and then aerospace where it's like it's just basic game theory

[1:09:36 - 1:09:45] ▶

you have to you have to do anything to get an advantage where they they really went way deeper

[1:09:45 - 1:09:49] ▶

into parapsychology and then academia stuck in string theory which is a stupid abstract math

[1:09:49 - 1:09:55] ▶

that hasn't gotten us anything hasn't shipped any product still stuck in the scientific logical

[1:09:55 - 1:09:59] ▶

positivist materialist worldview that's right you know it's it's institutionalized at the academy

[1:09:59 - 1:10:04] ▶

at the university level and therefore you can't you can't get cutting edge exploration on the

[1:10:04 - 1:10:10] ▶

part of some of the better minds of our family human family they won't they won't allow it yes

[1:10:10 - 1:10:15] ▶

uh... it philosophy theology and any of them you can't go there yes uh... and so that's why you have

[1:10:15 - 1:10:21] ▶

like these other like that we have a uh... a relationship with the new paradigm is to

[1:10:21 - 1:10:27] ▶

put it single ubiquity university they're accredited in europe uh... but you they can't get accredited here in the

[1:10:27 - 1:10:34] ▶

united states uh... because they talk about this stuff yeah saying look we've got to get we've got to

[1:10:34 - 1:10:39] ▶

get intelligent minds working uh... no no it's a systematic way it's so absurd we spend 15

[1:10:39 - 1:10:44] ▶

billion dollars on a large hydride collider and you have the possibility that there's a mind

[1:10:44 - 1:10:50] ▶

mind matter interface that kind of our cartesian dualist ideas are just totally off yeah and it's like

[1:10:50 - 1:10:56] ▶

maybe you know sub fifty million has been spent on you know pericilogy in the last hundred years

[1:10:56 - 1:11:04] ▶

course you're not going to make progress you know and and maybe that's by design i don't quite know

[1:11:04 - 1:11:08] ▶

you know and they're still there's still you know uh... lighting uh... like rocket fuel on fire

[1:11:08 - 1:11:14] ▶

yeah and burning it chemical to us to shoot it to shoot a rocket up into the

[1:11:14 - 1:11:18] ▶

interspending billions of dollars on that as a front operation you think you think it's a front

[1:11:18 - 1:11:24] ▶

you think that space x is a front totally for what for what's really known about what other way

[1:11:24 - 1:11:29] ▶

that these craft really work right but then yeah are we operating the craft then or when you say

[1:11:29 - 1:11:35] ▶

to for it's well no it's interesting that they they they obviously ran into a major problem uh... that

[1:11:35 - 1:11:42] ▶

they weren't able to pilot the craft because it's consciousness that yeah pilots the craft yeah

[1:11:42 - 1:11:49] ▶

like this hybridization of the person in the craft which makes sense if you look at a random

[1:11:49 - 1:11:53] ▶

event generator you have you know basically the mind affecting a random uh kind of quantum

[1:11:53 - 1:11:59] ▶

mechanical processes like quantum tunneling or radioactive isotope decay yeah so you know you

[1:11:59 - 1:12:05] ▶

have this kind almost like perfect digital coin flip created you have one one in his

[1:12:05 - 1:12:09] ▶

euro that's showing up on a screen but it's tied to this perfect random quantum mechanical process

[1:12:09 - 1:12:14] ▶

and uh... an observer is present and they can statistically beyond the standard deviation

[1:12:15 - 1:12:20] ▶

sway it between one and here and so maybe there's something about the ability to pilot the craft

[1:12:20 - 1:12:24] ▶

that you know requires a certain level of internal harmony or you're trying to track the

[1:12:24 - 1:12:29] ▶

on the point i was making yeah they they weren't able to fly them yeah they they've got them yeah they

[1:12:29 - 1:12:35] ▶

can't fly you have you ever seen a UFO no have you ever seen photographs you've seen a picture of

[1:12:35 - 1:12:40] ▶

a UFO photographs wherever you see a picture of a UFO in the classified files of project blue book

[1:12:40 - 1:12:46] ▶

you got to go through the files of blue book so blue book for the audience was the air forces

[1:12:46 - 1:12:52] ▶

investigation and UFOs under astronomer jalen hynek from the 50s and the 60s 52 to 69 and

[1:12:52 - 1:13:00] ▶

really you were able to go through aren't those classified files they were how were you able to see

[1:13:01 - 1:13:08] ▶

them were you in a uh kind of a skiff a compartmentalized facility or no it was that they they brought

[1:13:08 - 1:13:15] ▶

them to the uh... basement uh... offices of uh... the Madison building of the national archives

[1:13:15 - 1:13:25] ▶

you know back before the building was open the building had just been finished in the early spring

[1:13:25 - 1:13:32] ▶

January of 77 and uh... i was the special counsel to the study that was being done at the request

[1:13:32 - 1:13:41] ▶

of president Carter what was the study well press you just have to back up but when when president

[1:13:41 - 1:13:47] ▶

Carter remember had seen a UFO yeah in 1969 i believe was with a bunch of other people yeah a bunch of

[1:13:47 - 1:13:55] ▶

people eleven other people they were standing on the steps of this lions club although i think that

[1:13:55 - 1:14:00] ▶

citing may have been debunked since no it's it it wasn't uh... he he no it hasn't been

[1:14:00 - 1:14:09] ▶

they would it would he he saw he it was only like a thousand yards away it wasn't like a big

[1:14:09 - 1:14:15] ▶

you know star and sky or any that weird stuff it was like a UFO and he was very specific about it

[1:14:15 - 1:14:22] ▶

he talked about it yeah there's an interview where he talks about yeah and he and he filed a report

[1:14:22 - 1:14:27] ▶

about it uh... with the air force and and stuff it with nightcap uh... the time uh... and so that when

[1:14:27 - 1:14:33] ▶

he was elected in the first week of november of nineteen uh... seventy six you know the first

[1:14:33 - 1:14:41] ▶

thing he did was he sent for the head of the central intelligence agency to come down to planes

[1:14:41 - 1:14:46] ▶

Georgia uh... even before he had gone to Washington so he was still at his home down in Georgia

[1:14:46 - 1:14:52] ▶

and asked the CIA person had the person to come to brief him on the UFO issue and it turns out

[1:14:53 - 1:15:00] ▶

that person was George H. W. Bush uh... who had been appointed by Gerald Ford who had come in

[1:15:00 - 1:15:06] ▶

taking over for Nixon when Nixon resigned over the wargate thing there's a rumor that

[1:15:06 - 1:15:10] ▶

Jimmy Carter saw the UFO files and was shocked by them and and tears were very distraught is that

[1:15:11 - 1:15:18] ▶

a rumor that B.S. or a rumor okay is the most that it's it's a risen to that

[1:15:18 - 1:15:23] ▶

so when when Carter was was inaugurated on the 21st of jenuary in seventy seven

[1:15:24 - 1:15:29] ▶

one of the first things he did is he contacted a congress and told him that the the

[1:15:30 - 1:15:36] ▶

the agency refused to brief him he didn't want to have a war with the CIA you know and spend all

[1:15:36 - 1:15:41] ▶

that political capital trying to engage with them on this and so he asked the congressional

[1:15:41 - 1:15:48] ▶

science and technology committee to to contact the the congressional research service and have

[1:15:49 - 1:15:56] ▶

them do a special uh... research project for him and what all the information was that our

[1:15:56 - 1:16:02] ▶

United States government had uh... about the UFO phenomenon uh... and about whether or not there

[1:16:02 - 1:16:08] ▶

was any connection with extraterrestrial intelligence he asked both things uh... and so that

[1:16:08 - 1:16:15] ▶

i ended up being contacted by a marked dr. marsha smith who was ahead of the science and

[1:16:15 - 1:16:20] ▶

technology division of the uh... congressional research service and she asked if i would be

[1:16:20 - 1:16:26] ▶

special counsel to the project uh... and i agreed to do that and uh... and it's like there's two or

[1:16:26 - 1:16:34] ▶

three steps involved here because i don't want people to get the wrong impression that the reason

[1:16:34 - 1:16:40] ▶

that she asked me to be special counsel to the investigation was specifically she wanted me to

[1:16:40 - 1:16:46] ▶

contact the vatican archives and see as general counsel for the Jesuit national headquarters

[1:16:46 - 1:16:52] ▶

in their social ministry office whether i could get access to the the vatican archives

[1:16:52 - 1:16:57] ▶

and find out uh... for the library of congress and for the president what information they had

[1:16:57 - 1:17:03] ▶

so i checked with the my superiors of the Jesuit headquarters and got permission to do that and so

[1:17:04 - 1:17:11] ▶

i agreed to be special counsel so i contacted the vatican and asked if they would let us give me access

[1:17:11 - 1:17:18] ▶

to the to the archives uh... and they said no so i was kind of taken aback by that and so i wrote

[1:17:18 - 1:17:26] ▶

them a second letter with the authority of the Jesuit headquarters and they were re-explained

[1:17:26 - 1:17:30] ▶

in more detail what we were doing why we were doing it uh... and they still said no

[1:17:30 - 1:17:34] ▶

and so i contacted dr. marshal smith and told her that it's not going to happen they won't

[1:17:35 - 1:17:41] ▶

won't do it so i figured that was it that was the you know my my sole role as the special counsel

[1:17:41 - 1:17:48] ▶

but then she called me back a couple weeks later and she said uh... oh uh... the new the new congress

[1:17:48 - 1:17:56] ▶

that's come in uh... with president carder uh... the house of representatives cut out half of

[1:17:56 - 1:18:02] ▶

all of the budget for sati the search for extra trust or intelligence at the jet propulsion laboratory

[1:18:02 - 1:18:08] ▶

and so she said uh... that she's helping to organize a group of astronauts to go to the key

[1:18:08 - 1:18:16] ▶

members of congress at the house of representatives uh... to advocate putting the full budget back and would

[1:18:16 - 1:18:21] ▶

you agree to do that i would you agree to go with them as the legal counsel for the Jesuit headquarters

[1:18:21 - 1:18:28] ▶

so i did i went with you know rusty swab and a whole bunch of the schliker you know a bunch of the

[1:18:28 - 1:18:33] ▶

other folks uh... we went around and talked to the congress people and they put the money back in

[1:18:33 - 1:18:38] ▶

and so the the she dr. marshal smith called me and said oh the scientist at the setty project are

[1:18:38 - 1:18:45] ▶

super excited they're really happy uh... they're very thankful for you to help on this thing

[1:18:45 - 1:18:50] ▶

would you they want you to come in and give a closed door seminar to them on the theological

[1:18:50 - 1:18:56] ▶

implications of contact with an extra terrestrial civilization so the bottom line is that uh... that uh...

[1:18:56 - 1:19:02] ▶

uh... i get asked by by dr. marshal smith to to go out and do this this uh... seminar to the top

[1:19:02 - 1:19:11] ▶

fifty scientists at the setty so i say to myself look at if i'm going to go do this you know i'd like

[1:19:11 - 1:19:16] ▶

to really have you get me some access to some of the stuff that you're getting and gathering for

[1:19:16 - 1:19:22] ▶

the president you know that you're putting together so i can be better briefed on you know what we're

[1:19:22 - 1:19:26] ▶

doing here to talk with them and she said well okay what would you like to have and i said oh i

[1:19:26 - 1:19:32] ▶

i want to have the classified persons of project blue book and she said oh right there they're

[1:19:32 - 1:19:38] ▶

not ever going to give that to us and i said well you know you won't get it unless you ask as

[1:19:38 - 1:19:43] ▶

a here you are doing this for the president you just if you would ask them so i can see them

[1:19:43 - 1:19:48] ▶

and she said well okay i'll ask and uh... uh... she called me back like i don't know for four days later

[1:19:48 - 1:19:55] ▶

or more and she calls back she said well she's totally surprised that they agreed that i could see

[1:19:55 - 1:20:00] ▶

them so i did you know i get my suit on i bring my little lawyer briefcase i bring the whole nine

[1:20:00 - 1:20:06] ▶

yards and bring my passport my wash and in dc driver's license i go over to the medicine building

[1:20:06 - 1:20:12] ▶

i would come there i think it was a Saturday morning i'd hear these two suits there these big

[1:20:12 - 1:20:17] ▶

no-necked tough guys kind of suit you know they're not air force those are not air force guys you know

[1:20:17 - 1:20:23] ▶

i don't know they couldn't quite tell who they were uh... but look like sf guys you know

[1:20:23 - 1:20:28] ▶

and so so they are kind of gruff and they check my idea out i showed them the idea and stuff

[1:20:29 - 1:20:36] ▶

and they said all right so they leave me into the hallway and they say okay go down the hallway

[1:20:36 - 1:20:39] ▶

here to the to your right go down there and take the elevator down go down to the basement

[1:20:39 - 1:20:45] ▶

and you'll see them so i said all right so i go down the hallway and i get in the elevator and i

[1:20:46 - 1:20:52] ▶

start down the elevator and it's just an instinctive thing i did i opened up my briefcase and took out

[1:20:52 - 1:20:57] ▶

a yellow pad uh... legal pad and it closed up my briefcase and i put the yellow pad under my arm

[1:20:57 - 1:21:02] ▶

and i come down to the the basement floor and i get out of the elevator and there's no lights on

[1:21:03 - 1:21:09] ▶

like in the hallway but i can see down the hall i could see down down down to the left i could see

[1:21:09 - 1:21:14] ▶

a light out of a room with the door open so down i go i got down there here these two other

[1:21:15 - 1:21:20] ▶

suits two other guys there you right and they both check my idea and stuff and they say okay you got

[1:21:20 - 1:21:26] ▶

to leave the briefcase here stuff you can't you can't go in you can't take the nose you can't

[1:21:26 - 1:21:30] ▶

record anything uh you know but uh here's the room and so i uh so i i walk in the room and i say it's

[1:21:30 - 1:21:37] ▶

like about 20 feet wide and about 12 15 feet deep and there's three cardboard kind of card tables

[1:21:37 - 1:21:45] ▶

you know uh uh there in the in the room and they had these boxes little cardboard boxes like

[1:21:45 - 1:21:52] ▶

they were big like big shoe boxes like they're big bigger than a shoe box but and they were

[1:21:52 - 1:21:57] ▶

this kind of pale green with a little tie a little spring tie on them uh and so uh and they had

[1:21:57 - 1:22:04] ▶

a microfiche machine was there and so uh so i go and sit down and i take the yellow pet off of

[1:22:04 - 1:22:10] ▶

them and i lay it down there and i go over and i opened up one of the boxes and they've got there's

[1:22:10 - 1:22:15] ▶

a whole bunch of documents with it you know all kinds of you know uh uh had it uh letter head on them

[1:22:15 - 1:22:21] ▶

and everything and so i'm saying look at this is going to take me forever if i start reading all

[1:22:21 - 1:22:25] ▶

these things let me just try to find some photos and so i went through this one another can of it

[1:22:25 - 1:22:30] ▶

and another i think maybe the third canister of this stuff and here are these photos and there's

[1:22:30 - 1:22:36] ▶

it was photos of uh there wasn't a doubt about what it was it was a crash or trevil of a UFO

[1:22:36 - 1:22:41] ▶

and could see that the UFO had had crashed into this field and there was snow on the on the field

[1:22:42 - 1:22:50] ▶

and it had plowed this big gouge all the way through this field and the dirt was all turned up

[1:22:50 - 1:22:55] ▶

and stuff and the the UFO itself was stuck in the side of this big embankment that was covered

[1:22:55 - 1:23:01] ▶

with snow but you could tell it was like this earth and embankment it was stuck in the side of

[1:23:01 - 1:23:06] ▶

the bank do you have any idea where the UFO was or it was just took the photo it was no it was it was

[1:23:06 - 1:23:11] ▶

snow and there were air force guys all around it i could tell that's what they were and it was winter

[1:23:11 - 1:23:17] ▶

and they had these they had the park is on like with a little fur around the hood stuff do you

[1:23:17 - 1:23:22] ▶

think there's any chance it was fabricated for you to know should to show you it would have been

[1:23:22 - 1:23:28] ▶

ridiculous to to go to those lengths to set up some fake picture or something like that i mean

[1:23:28 - 1:23:35] ▶

it was it was clear it was clear that it was in the you you can see the guys taking photographs of it

[1:23:35 - 1:23:41] ▶

and there was one like a movie camera they had that they had those weird two canisters on the top

[1:23:41 - 1:23:48] ▶

like this like i was an old-timey kind of older version of a movie camera and they were

[1:23:48 - 1:23:54] ▶

filming it and you know they were like three or four of the different photos of it from different

[1:23:55 - 1:24:00] ▶

angles and i could see it in one of the photos i could see that around the bottom of the dome it

[1:24:00 - 1:24:06] ▶

was a classic saucer like 40 feet wide and it was stuck in the embankment and that i could see

[1:24:06 - 1:24:13] ▶

around the base of the dome on the the saucer this these symbols that were all around the base

[1:24:13 - 1:24:21] ▶

of the of the dome and i i looked at it and i i cranked it up again so i could see the the symbols

[1:24:21 - 1:24:28] ▶

and what i did is i took out the yellow pad and i opened it up for some reason just instinctively

[1:24:29 - 1:24:35] ▶

i opened it up to the inside cardboard of it and i slid it under the the microfiche machine and i

[1:24:35 - 1:24:42] ▶

focused it so that i could see the symbols and then i traced the symbols exactly verbatim you

[1:24:42 - 1:24:49] ▶

know all the way around this the half of the the the dome that i could see and i just put them all i

[1:24:49 - 1:24:56] ▶

just traced all of them and i put put the closed up the yellow pad you know rolled up the the

[1:24:56 - 1:25:06] ▶

microfiche put it back into the little canister and put it back in the box and tied the little string

[1:25:06 - 1:25:11] ▶

and put it back and i said okay that's it i got them you know wow did did anybody else see it or

[1:25:11 - 1:25:16] ▶

now no well the father father Davis saw it he saw the trace he saw the tracing did you not want to

[1:25:16 - 1:25:25] ▶

shell anybody the photo itself well i didn't have the photo itself i i there was anyway i could

[1:25:25 - 1:25:30] ▶

get it where alone i just alone i was just alone there the two guys were outside the door okay

[1:25:30 - 1:25:35] ▶

and so i i i had the i had the thing traced so i put the stuff away i put the the yellow pad

[1:25:36 - 1:25:43] ▶

under my arm again i just walked out can he sketch the yeah you have a yeah i love to see it i

[1:25:43 - 1:25:49] ▶

i can sketch the ufi so you exactly would look like okay so here's here's the photo yeah and it's

[1:25:49 - 1:25:55] ▶

uh you know you you can see the field yeah here uh and it was so since you can see the plow

[1:25:55 - 1:26:02] ▶

there's this thing plowed right straight through here this is the dirt with all the dirt

[1:26:02 - 1:26:06] ▶

all kicked up all along the the side of this trench and the trench was dug all the way through the

[1:26:06 - 1:26:12] ▶

field and the the craft itself was like this and it was it was stuck in the in the the side of the

[1:26:12 - 1:26:21] ▶

the hill and the hill came down like this and it was stuck well it wasn't that tall it was like

[1:26:22 - 1:26:29] ▶

up here uh and it was stuck there in around the bottom of the dome on top of here there was right

[1:26:29 - 1:26:36] ▶

like this around here there were all of these little symbols there were these symbols that were here

[1:26:36 - 1:26:43] ▶

and they they they looked like this

[1:26:43 - 1:26:45] ▶

hmm

[1:26:46 - 1:26:47] ▶

and that's that's what they they went all the way around here have you spoken to like a

[1:26:57 - 1:27:01] ▶

symbologist since then do you have any sense of you shed i i hadn't what i would i just i

[1:27:01 - 1:27:08] ▶

i walked out of there uh what i had him and i i walked and i walked past these two guys there's

[1:27:08 - 1:27:15] ▶

and they were kind of surprised that i had come out of there so fast i mean i've kicked myself

[1:27:15 - 1:27:20] ▶

a hundred times since then you know why didn't stay in there and try to figure out more stuff so

[1:27:20 - 1:27:25] ▶

what i did is i you know i i was kind of freaked out you know that we got well so i come i walk out

[1:27:25 - 1:27:31] ▶

of the place uh and i i reach out and pick up my briefcase and start just walking away

[1:27:31 - 1:27:37] ▶

and these guys you know and they were kind of surprised that i'd come out of there that fast uh and uh

[1:27:37 - 1:27:43] ▶

and so as i started walking down the hall one of them says hey hold it hold what do you got there

[1:27:43 - 1:27:48] ▶

and i said oh this is my briefcase i just picked up my briefcase and he said no no no what do you

[1:27:48 - 1:27:53] ▶

got under your arm over there and both of the guys come over to me and they stop me and uh it

[1:27:53 - 1:27:59] ▶

one snatches the yellow path well away and and ruffles through the pages and there's not an

[1:27:59 - 1:28:05] ▶

item of course uh because i did it on the inside of the cardboard on the back wow uh inside

[1:28:05 - 1:28:11] ▶

and so they didn't even see it and then he just hands it back to me and so i just walk

[1:28:11 - 1:28:15] ▶

walk away and i i kind of go down the hallway uh and get back into the elevator wow and uh and uh

[1:28:15 - 1:28:21] ▶

and it was if elevator is going up i hold my briefcase and put it back inside and and uh walk up

[1:28:21 - 1:28:27] ▶

well you brought up Carter's initial interest in UFOs because he saw one then he goes to George H. W. Bush

[1:28:27 - 1:28:33] ▶

and he says i want to get brief uh so h.w. Bush probably you know knew a lot about the whole

[1:28:33 - 1:28:38] ▶

UFO phenomenon in 2015 2016 when Jeb Bush's son is uh campaigning you know against Trump and the

[1:28:38 - 1:28:46] ▶

Republican primary uh George H. W. Bush is you know helping him campaign he's very old at the time

[1:28:46 - 1:28:52] ▶

and he's on the stage he's in a wheelchair and somebody from the public in a you know q&a session

[1:28:52 - 1:28:56] ▶

says what do you know about UFOs and he starts going off about how you know the American public is

[1:28:56 - 1:29:02] ▶

not ready for the truth on UFOs which is definitely off script from what he would usually say

[1:29:02 - 1:29:06] ▶

and uh you know they they just sort of slowly wheel him off at the stage and you know say he's like

[1:29:07 - 1:29:12] ▶

you know he's not uh doesn't have his marbles or whatever what an interesting you know but um

[1:29:12 - 1:29:18] ▶

what about JFK you know there's this document from 2005 that was it was foyer in 2005

[1:29:18 - 1:29:23] ▶

um and by again i think lester William Lester um and i've tried to get in touch with this guy

[1:29:25 - 1:29:31] ▶

multiple times because i want to know whether it's real or fake it's like this another thing like

[1:29:31 - 1:29:36] ▶

the opinheimer thing where it's like if opinheimer was involved with UFOs that's this crazy smoking gun

[1:29:36 - 1:29:41] ▶

that like would really change the public consensus if JFK was looking into UFOs at the end of his

[1:29:41 - 1:29:46] ▶

life and we know that that also would be this really important fact for people to know and so it's

[1:29:46 - 1:29:52] ▶

this letter that was poignant in 2005 but it's from november 12th 1963 so 10 days before he's shot

[1:29:52 - 1:29:58] ▶

in Dallas and it's a letter from him to acting CIA director john mccom and he's saying i want

[1:29:58 - 1:30:06] ▶

all the data on unknowns but not by unknowns he means UFOs and he's saying specifically i'm

[1:30:06 - 1:30:12] ▶

worried about you know uh the USSR uh freaking out because you know they're seeing these UFOs in

[1:30:12 - 1:30:19] ▶

their airspace and they think they're acts of american aggression yeah and so do you think that

[1:30:19 - 1:30:23] ▶

that letter might have been real or i mean might have been real might not have been right i don't know

[1:30:23 - 1:30:29] ▶

i do know i do know that in when when i was when i was working with dick billings dick billings was

[1:30:29 - 1:30:39] ▶

the chief staff writer for the house select committee on assassinations and he was one of my

[1:30:39 - 1:30:46] ▶

investigators uh actually at the at the chris thick institute back in washington uh and he and i

[1:30:46 - 1:30:54] ▶

were investigating uh the the assassination because he was a very very important guy he's the guy

[1:30:54 - 1:31:03] ▶

that got the zupruder film down in Dallas and he was the guy that he was the the life magazine

[1:31:03 - 1:31:10] ▶

guy if her Miami the Miami office uh and was phone he ran the he ran the life magazine team

[1:31:11 - 1:31:19] ▶

that was on the ground in Dallas the day of the assassination afterwards he's the guy that got

[1:31:19 - 1:31:24] ▶

the there's a brutal film he knows all about all that stuff i had just been uh over on the hill

[1:31:24 - 1:31:31] ▶

meeting with uh tip o'Neil and uh and also with uh on the center side was uh clayborne pell

[1:31:31 - 1:31:42] ▶

in showing them copies of the complaint that we had drafted clayborne pell by the way

[1:31:43 - 1:31:47] ▶

super interested in parapsychology and the all sorts of crazy stuff and he's Biden he was

[1:31:47 - 1:31:52] ▶

Biden's mentor all throughout his career anyways keep going so so the bottom line is i i've been over

[1:31:52 - 1:31:58] ▶

on the hill that i was showing them copies of the complaint that we had uh prepared uh and it

[1:31:58 - 1:32:04] ▶

filed already down in Miami bottom line that i come back to i come back to my office and i

[1:32:04 - 1:32:10] ▶

walked into the office 1324 north capital street you know just 13 blocks in the capital

[1:32:10 - 1:32:15] ▶

walk in in patiostons my secretary she says uh Danny there's a older gentleman here waiting to see

[1:32:16 - 1:32:22] ▶

you and i said uh well who is it she said i don't know he didn't give me his name and i said

[1:32:22 - 1:32:28] ▶

well where is he and he said he's up in your office sitting waiting for you and so i said all right

[1:32:28 - 1:32:34] ▶

so i go upstairs i go into my office and i walk over and i here's this guy he just looks like he's

[1:32:34 - 1:32:39] ▶

about 65 years old or something like this and so uh i walk over and i said i said hi i'm Danny

[1:32:39 - 1:32:45] ▶

she in he said great it's good to meet you miss chian then never told me what his name was

[1:32:45 - 1:32:49] ▶

and so uh i go back and i get behind my desk and i say okay what what can i do for you he said uh

[1:32:50 - 1:32:56] ▶

look he said uh i've got a copy of your complaint here and he pulls out a copy of the complaint

[1:32:56 - 1:33:01] ▶

which had been sealed actually by judge james loren's king down in in florida the just the

[1:33:01 - 1:33:07] ▶

previous friday and so so i was kind of a little bit taken aback that he had it uh and he said

[1:33:07 - 1:33:14] ▶

he said uh now he said you don't you don't know who i am at all i said yeah i noticed that

[1:33:15 - 1:33:20] ▶

uh and he said uh but look at i just want to uh ask you a few questions you don't have to answer

[1:33:20 - 1:33:25] ▶

me if you don't want but i think i might be able to help you on this i said okay but he said now you

[1:33:25 - 1:33:30] ▶

got to 29 people listed here as the defendants and you're iran contra you know federal criminal

[1:33:30 - 1:33:36] ▶

racketeering complaint you've got filed against them he said who do you think is the most important

[1:33:36 - 1:33:41] ▶

and i said well a lot of people would think it's because the theodore shakley uh was the addo the

[1:33:42 - 1:33:49] ▶

associate deputy director for operations at the cia uh running covert operations uh and uh

[1:33:49 - 1:33:57] ▶

he was the immediate boss of the fellow who was the uh national security advisor for

[1:33:57 - 1:34:05] ▶

george bush senior who's the vice president i said so that you know in since that's the guy

[1:34:05 - 1:34:10] ▶

in whose office they've been meeting of the iran contra people uh and in uh in philos rodrigus

[1:34:11 - 1:34:17] ▶

and the guys uh we're meeting with him you know uh so a lot of people would think that that's the

[1:34:17 - 1:34:22] ▶

reason i think that he's the most important uh and he said but that's not the that's not the reason

[1:34:22 - 1:34:29] ▶

why you think he's the most important and i said no no he said well why do you think he's the most

[1:34:29 - 1:34:35] ▶

important i said has it because he was the cia station chief in mayami uh on november 22nd of 1963

[1:34:35 - 1:34:43] ▶

and he said he said there are two men in the world that would have answered that question that way

[1:34:43 - 1:34:52] ▶

he said my name is dick billings i was the chief staff writer for the house select committee on

[1:34:52 - 1:34:56] ▶

assassinations i think i can help you out on this case and that's how it started we found out that

[1:34:56 - 1:35:02] ▶

that kennedy on june 5th of 1963 uh and this would be for july august ember torter like five

[1:35:02 - 1:35:12] ▶

months earlier uh that he had asked to be briefed on the uf o stuff he wanted all the uf o stuff

[1:35:12 - 1:35:20] ▶

on june 5th that was the same day that bobby kennedy had been first notified about the existence of

[1:35:20 - 1:35:28] ▶

the political assassination team that had been put together by rick jenixon back in 1960 when he

[1:35:28 - 1:35:36] ▶

was the vice president in the chair of the fifty four twelve committee under under isenhower

[1:35:36 - 1:35:41] ▶

here is a bulletin from cbs news in dollas texas three shots were fired at president kennedy's

[1:35:41 - 1:35:48] ▶

motorcade in downtown dollas do you think that the cia killed jfk not exactly okay not exactly uh

[1:35:48 - 1:35:56] ▶

but i do know who did kill him you know and i do know that it was an s force was a fifteen man

[1:35:56 - 1:36:02] ▶

force that was created back in 1960 actually uh by rick jenixon and this was the force

[1:36:02 - 1:36:09] ▶

created to go after kill castrow to kill fidel castrow roll castrow chaggovera in five particular

[1:36:09 - 1:36:15] ▶

common dantes of the new uh government and so why did nixon create this force

[1:36:15 - 1:36:20] ▶

to kill castrow he realized who well actually what he did strangely enough is he called

[1:36:21 - 1:36:29] ▶

Howard Hughes was the the day the day that uh the Nelson rocafeller with drew

[1:36:29 - 1:36:38] ▶

from the michigan state primary in the republican presidential primary campaign

[1:36:38 - 1:36:44] ▶

was the day that rich or nixon knew he was going to be the republican nominee in 1960

[1:36:45 - 1:36:50] ▶

okay and he knew that this kennedy kid whose father you know had basically bought him a seat

[1:36:50 - 1:36:56] ▶

you know in the congress and that he was this kind of you know hollow vehicle you know uh it was

[1:36:56 - 1:37:03] ▶

he was going to beat him and so what he did is picks up the telephone the security phone

[1:37:03 - 1:37:08] ▶

in the fifty four twelve committee of the national security council and calls Howard Hughes

[1:37:08 - 1:37:14] ▶

because Howard Hughes was a secret consultant to the national security council he had

[1:37:14 - 1:37:19] ▶

he had invented the the glomeric's floor to pick up russian submarines if they fail and fall to

[1:37:19 - 1:37:25] ▶

the bottom of the ocean uh he did the c5a cargo plane the big uh spruce goose uh he was doing two

[1:37:25 - 1:37:31] ▶

other extremely extremely sensitive programs well wait what was he doing uh i can't tell you that

[1:37:31 - 1:37:37] ▶

uh but that uh but the bottom line is he was close in but he must have been working on UFO stuff

[1:37:38 - 1:37:44] ▶

to not no he was not he was not no no they hadn't gotten him in on that uh he was doing things much

[1:37:44 - 1:37:51] ▶

more kind of military kind of prosaic military stuff so the bottom but the bottom line is

[1:37:51 - 1:37:57] ▶

Nixon knew him because of that because Nixon chaired the fifty four twelve committee as the vice

[1:37:57 - 1:38:03] ▶

president under Eisenhower in 1960 so he chaired that fifty four twelve committee that's in charge

[1:38:03 - 1:38:08] ▶

of covert operations so he knew about him being there and so he picks up the the red phone

[1:38:08 - 1:38:14] ▶

and calls Howard Hughes and tells Hughes that he wants him to set up an assassination team to kill

[1:38:14 - 1:38:21] ▶

Fidel Castro in a whole Castro in Che Guevara because they're refusing Nixon's demands

[1:38:21 - 1:38:27] ▶

being communicated to them that they not have any diplomatic relations with either Russia or China

[1:38:28 - 1:38:33] ▶

he was setting that up as a condition you know he was invoking basically the old Monroe doctor

[1:38:33 - 1:38:38] ▶

what what he did is ask uh uh uh him to set up an assassination team he asked Howard Hughes to

[1:38:39 - 1:38:47] ▶

do that Howard Hughes didn't agree or disagree on the phone being smart enough not to trust trust

[1:38:47 - 1:38:54] ▶

Nixon is whether he was recording it or not and so he didn't say yes or no but he called in one

[1:38:54 - 1:38:59] ▶

of his lawyers Bob Mayhew and assigned it to Mayhew to figure out how we might do this and so Mayhew

[1:38:59 - 1:39:06] ▶

goes and they were in Las Vegas where where they were right uh and he goes uh in Robert Mayhew goes

[1:39:06 - 1:39:13] ▶

to see Johnny Roselli and Johnny Roselli is the bag man at the two casinos that were owned by

[1:39:13 - 1:39:19] ▶

the mafia right and his his principal uh uh is uh in in in in Chicago uh he goes to see him right

[1:39:19 - 1:39:29] ▶

Sam Giancana and says look I uh so so Mayhew goes to Johnny Roselli and says look you guys use

[1:39:30 - 1:39:38] ▶

guys uh with the bent noses you know you got your own reason for wanting to get rid of Castro you

[1:39:38 - 1:39:44] ▶

know he closed down all the gamutic casinos he closed down the horror houses and very importantly

[1:39:44 - 1:39:48] ▶

he closed off the heroin trafficking and it was coming in through the golden triangle okay and uh

[1:39:48 - 1:39:55] ▶

and so therefore you got your own reasons for wanting to get rid of them so why don't you guys do

[1:39:55 - 1:40:00] ▶

that that Nixon's getting set to be president he wants you to do this and so so he says why can't

[1:40:00 - 1:40:06] ▶

do it without talking to Giancana who's my my principal so he goes back to Chicago and talks to

[1:40:06 - 1:40:13] ▶

Giancana Giancana says well this is Trafford County's territory down there he's the down of the

[1:40:13 - 1:40:18] ▶

mafia in Havana and even though he fled from Havana on January 1st 1959 when when Castro took over

[1:40:18 - 1:40:27] ▶

also he fled and came up to Florida and was camped out in Tampa setting up his little regime

[1:40:27 - 1:40:32] ▶

in the whole bunch of the other refugees that were Batista people you know along with Trafford

[1:40:33 - 1:40:40] ▶

County because they were partners in the heroin trade Batista the dictated was he was the

[1:40:40 - 1:40:47] ▶

dictated he was partners with San Francisco's Trafford County in the heroin appers and the third

[1:40:47 - 1:40:51] ▶

guy in the partnership uh was uh uh uh Paul Hellywell Paul Hellywell was the head of the C-Supply

[1:40:51 - 1:41:01] ▶

Corporation S-E-A South East Asia supply corporation he was full time full time central intelligence

[1:41:01 - 1:41:08] ▶

agency full time central intelligence agency this is like pre-earned contract or something

[1:41:08 - 1:41:12] ▶

that he was all 1960 but it was kind of like a precursor in some ways because were they doing the

[1:41:12 - 1:41:18] ▶

same thing using the profits to find that back back and then he's absolutely yeah and so that uh

[1:41:18 - 1:41:24] ▶

so they said we can't do this without Trafford County you know being in charge of figuring out

[1:41:24 - 1:41:28] ▶

what to do about this so they fly down you know the same june kana jane roselli in the in the

[1:41:28 - 1:41:33] ▶

Bob Mayhew fly down to to Florida and they have three sets of meetings at the fountain blue hotel

[1:41:33 - 1:41:40] ▶

now we're getting all of this directly from Trafford County who turns out to be the client

[1:41:40 - 1:41:46] ▶

of the firm where I was one of these Trafford County guys doing in the wargaid hotel why are they

[1:41:47 - 1:41:52] ▶

there you know so that's how he found out so Trafford County's telling us all this so that these

[1:41:52 - 1:41:58] ▶

are the facts and what happened yeah okay so the bottom line is that he after the second meeting

[1:41:58 - 1:42:03] ▶

says okay I'm supportive of this in principle but you know I didn't fall off no melon wagon

[1:42:03 - 1:42:09] ▶

so I wanted to make sure that this wasn't his term of brain fart this wasn't some kind of brain fart

[1:42:10 - 1:42:15] ▶

you know of Howard Hughes yep or much less mayhew you know I needed to know this was coming

[1:42:15 - 1:42:20] ▶

directly from Nixon if we were going to do this and so the next meeting shows up a guy at the

[1:42:20 - 1:42:26] ▶

third meeting that used the gnome de guerre mr. ed and it was sheffield Edwards who's chief

[1:42:26 - 1:42:32] ▶

of security of the central intelligence agency okay so he green lights the creation of this

[1:42:32 - 1:42:38] ▶

assassination team this designed to kill Castro if he dealt Castro or all Castro and Chico Vera

[1:42:38 - 1:42:45] ▶

and these other common downtays right and so that that goes into motion they agree to do that

[1:42:45 - 1:42:51] ▶

in Trafford County figures out okay what am I who am I going to put together on this team he's smart

[1:42:51 - 1:42:59] ▶

so what he does is he picks 15 guys that are all former gunmen from him down in divana who had

[1:42:59 - 1:43:05] ▶

fled with him up to Florida who'd now been recruited by the central intelligence agency to form

[1:43:05 - 1:43:11] ▶

this thing called operation 40 which is this covert operation against Cuba burning bridges you

[1:43:11 - 1:43:17] ▶

know lighting fires to their their sugar cane fields you know poisoning the the shipments of

[1:43:17 - 1:43:22] ▶

sugar going out of you know doing everything to try to to destroy the economy of that country

[1:43:22 - 1:43:28] ▶

right because they were in defiance of Nixon because they'd gone ahead and established diplomatic

[1:43:28 - 1:43:32] ▶

relations with both China and Russia so he wanted to you know to close down their economy to show

[1:43:32 - 1:43:38] ▶

that you know a socialist economy couldn't couldn't function so so the bottom line is they they

[1:43:38 - 1:43:45] ▶

Trafford County contacts guys that have now been hired by the central intelligence agency covertly

[1:43:45 - 1:43:51] ▶

to participate in operation 40 in covert operations against Cuba and he selects 15 of these people

[1:43:51 - 1:43:58] ▶

which they call a code name the esports so what happens between the esports and Castro well

[1:43:58 - 1:44:05] ▶

that they're trying to figure out how to assassinate Castro yeah they're trying to figure out all

[1:44:05 - 1:44:08] ▶

these different ways of doing it uh and but in the meantime what happens is Nixon doesn't get elected

[1:44:08 - 1:44:15] ▶

you know uh and so that he doesn't get elected and incomes Kennedy you know and bringing his brother

[1:44:16 - 1:44:21] ▶

Bobby is the attorney general right uh and it turns out they don't know anything about this

[1:44:21 - 1:44:26] ▶

assassination team because it's been set up completely off the shelf like this by Nixon right

[1:44:26 - 1:44:30] ▶

and so that everybody just steps back and lets that team keep on going uh but the Kennedy's don't

[1:44:30 - 1:44:35] ▶

know about it and so that that whole operation comes down you know they go through the whole bay of

[1:44:35 - 1:44:40] ▶

pigs thing you know that balls through uh and uh Kennedy goes down and apologizes it literally

[1:44:40 - 1:44:47] ▶

goes down to Miami in the orange ball and gathers together all of these hardcore right wing cubano

[1:44:47 - 1:44:53] ▶

refugees and apologizes to them for this and promises them that the free flag of Cuba will fly

[1:44:53 - 1:45:01] ▶

over the island before the end of his second term he says that to him right uh and he comes back

[1:45:01 - 1:45:06] ▶

and he even though he told uh uh cruise ship that he was going to stop the covert operations

[1:45:06 - 1:45:13] ▶

going out against Cuba he was going to shut down operation 40 he wasn't going to do that anymore

[1:45:13 - 1:45:17] ▶

you know mea kopa sorry for doing that 40 with an operation called mangos and they set it up

[1:45:18 - 1:45:24] ▶

over at the Miami on the Miami campus University of Miami campus and this big hanger that's there

[1:45:24 - 1:45:29] ▶

and that the mangos runs there in the in the guys that we're doing the covert operations against

[1:45:30 - 1:45:38] ▶

Cuba still you know included all the guys on the s-force who had that other hat on.

[1:45:38 - 1:45:44] ▶

Kennedy's aware of all this and even directing some of it how does it end up turning on him.

[1:45:44 - 1:45:49] ▶

No Kennedy wasn't aware of it at all. At all. At all. Okay.

[1:45:49 - 1:45:52] ▶

At all until June 5th. Okay. Until June 5th of 1963. Okay.

[1:45:52 - 1:45:57] ▶

It was when he found out that well for Sullivan uh told Bobby you know about it found out about it

[1:45:57 - 1:46:02] ▶

and then Bobby tells John uh but they didn't know about it until June 5th of 1963.

[1:46:02 - 1:46:07] ▶

So that that thing is going on all that time okay and so that the the the smoke is cleared

[1:46:07 - 1:46:13] ▶

on the Bay of Pigs problem but what happens of course is you in 62 in October of 62

[1:46:13 - 1:46:20] ▶

is the Cuban Missile Crisis because Kennedy had lied to Cruise Jeff about shutting down operation 40

[1:46:20 - 1:46:27] ▶

and it just substituted operation mangos. Nikita Cruise Jeff just totally pissed off and so what he

[1:46:27 - 1:46:33] ▶

does is start putting it in by Kennedy being aware this is aware of Mungus but he's not aware of the

[1:46:33 - 1:46:38] ▶

espouse. Oh no no no but he's right right he knew about Mungus. Yeah. There's no doubt about that

[1:46:38 - 1:46:42] ▶

uh but he didn't know about the esports. So he doesn't know about the original intention to take out

[1:46:42 - 1:46:46] ▶

cash flow. No he doesn't know anything about that. Got it. Okay and so so the bottom line is

[1:46:46 - 1:46:51] ▶

is that what uh what what happens is that Cruise Jeff is so pissed off over the fact that he's been

[1:46:51 - 1:46:57] ▶

lied to now by Kennedy you know that he starts putting missiles into Cuba okay and then when they find

[1:46:57 - 1:47:03] ▶

out about it in October this whole thing comes down which everybody knows about. And they come to

[1:47:03 - 1:47:07] ▶

within you know a hare's breath of totally destroying the entire world and you know Curtis Lemay

[1:47:07 - 1:47:12] ▶

and his guys you know are are you know coming up with operation northwards and all that stuff

[1:47:12 - 1:47:18] ▶

of trying to figure out a generator war you know with Russia uh so the bottom line is Kennedy has

[1:47:18 - 1:47:24] ▶

to crush that whole operation to say look at we've got to we've got to stop this this is totally nuts

[1:47:24 - 1:47:30] ▶

until what he does is opens up a line of completely covert communications with Nikita Cruise Jeff

[1:47:31 - 1:47:36] ▶

and he is promising and look okay look you're right I lied to you but look at I'm telling you now

[1:47:38 - 1:47:42] ▶

it's as I'm telling you the truth you and I need to do something about this we've come just

[1:47:42 - 1:47:47] ▶

within a minute of destroying the entire planet you know we've got to do something and what they

[1:47:47 - 1:47:52] ▶

decided among themselves in an exchange of 18 different letters they went back and forth

[1:47:52 - 1:47:57] ▶

completely secretly outside of the channels in the state department outside of the channels of the

[1:47:57 - 1:48:03] ▶

the CIA that he set up a completely private operation Kennedy and Cruise Jeff to each other agreed

[1:48:03 - 1:48:10] ▶

that they were going to each use their respective authority as the executives of those two countries

[1:48:10 - 1:48:15] ▶

to start disassembling the nuclear warheads of their entire nuclear arsenals because they were

[1:48:15 - 1:48:22] ▶

personally so totally traumatized by what had happened are almost happened and so that they started

[1:48:22 - 1:48:28] ▶

getting ready to do that uh and what happened is uh Ellen Dulles found out about this

[1:48:28 - 1:48:35] ▶

who had been the first civilian head of the CIA and who hated Kennedy they well that yeah sure

[1:48:36 - 1:48:42] ▶

he hated Kennedy you know over babe pigs and hated him the babe pigs hated because he got fired

[1:48:42 - 1:48:48] ▶

you know but really more importantly and more sophisticatedly was totally opposed to the disassembling

[1:48:48 - 1:48:55] ▶

of the nuclear warheads of the nuclear arsenal you know because they believed that they needed to have

[1:48:55 - 1:49:01] ▶

that against China not not against Russian it's against China because they'd already been shown

[1:49:01 - 1:49:08] ▶

you know at at the reservoir in in Korea and at Inchan that the the Chinese could put a million

[1:49:08 - 1:49:16] ▶

men in uniform into the field against you you couldn't do anything about it you couldn't win a

[1:49:16 - 1:49:22] ▶

traditional land war against China so they had to have the nuclear missiles so they viewed Kennedy

[1:49:22 - 1:49:28] ▶

as a traitor but he was getting set to disassemble the the primary military capacity that the United

[1:49:28 - 1:49:36] ▶

States had doing it covertly with the Soviets i.e. Cruise Jeff personally okay and they said that's

[1:49:36 - 1:49:44] ▶

that's curtains we can't wait we can't wait for an election a year from now you know you're in

[1:49:44 - 1:49:51] ▶

half now in November of 64 we've got to get rid of him now and so what they did is they tasked

[1:49:51 - 1:49:58] ▶

the s force that they knew existed because because Dulles knew that they existed because Dulles

[1:49:58 - 1:50:06] ▶

was involved in it earlier on so how does Dulles do that because Dulles leaves and joins brown

[1:50:06 - 1:50:11] ▶

brothers harrowman yeah he goes back to brown brothers harrow where he had in effect never really

[1:50:11 - 1:50:16] ▶

left because the central intelligence agency was the brainchild of the people at brown brothers

[1:50:16 - 1:50:21] ▶

harrowman you know Robert love it who was one of the senior partners there this is the one who wrote

[1:50:21 - 1:50:25] ▶

the original memo to Truman recommending that they create a central intelligence agency and that

[1:50:25 - 1:50:31] ▶

they have a covert operations capacity was they put in section 5412 to authorize them to engage

[1:50:31 - 1:50:36] ▶

in covert operations and what would brown brothers harrowman was just like a normal law firm at the

[1:50:36 - 1:50:41] ▶

surface or what what no brown brothers harrowman wasn't a law brown brothers harrowman was a

[1:50:41 - 1:50:46] ▶

collective investment company I was investing and they had the kind of the richest 25

[1:50:46 - 1:50:50] ▶

Patrons from the robberbearance that were all investors common investors and they would come

[1:50:50 - 1:50:56] ▶

together and decide how they were going to direct their investments together and what they did

[1:50:56 - 1:51:01] ▶

for example after world after world war one this gets a little complicated but after world war

[1:51:01 - 1:51:08] ▶

one in 1918 they had the Versailles treaty negotiations yeah it turns out that the secretary of state

[1:51:08 - 1:51:17] ▶

under Wilson back in 1918 was a guy being a Robert Lansing Robert Lansing was the son-in-law

[1:51:17 - 1:51:25] ▶

of of John W. Foster who was the former secretary of state back in 1893 he's the grand father of

[1:51:25 - 1:51:33] ▶

John Foster Dulles and Alan Dulles those are his nephews and so what he does is when he supervises

[1:51:33 - 1:51:39] ▶

setting up the Versailles treaty he brings in his two nephews as part of the team that they bring

[1:51:39 - 1:51:45] ▶

to Versailles those are the two guys that drafted the war reparations provisions inside the treaty

[1:51:45 - 1:51:51] ▶

of Versailles this feels like too big of a triple bank shot or something because you you also

[1:51:51 - 1:51:56] ▶

talk about like is like the union bank was like funding there's an idea about that yeah that's

[1:51:56 - 1:52:01] ▶

just a fact so do you think do you think that the Versailles was sort of intentionally you know

[1:52:01 - 1:52:06] ▶

too harsh in a way that like made you know like created a noxbess for the extremism of Nazism sort of

[1:52:06 - 1:52:15] ▶

you know no no no no no no it started out and I'm okay much more prosaic motive okay just because

[1:52:15 - 1:52:20] ▶

what they did as they said oh look we're imposing the war reparations requirements of Germany

[1:52:20 - 1:52:25] ▶

through the exercise of the power of the state department yep supervising the Versailles treaty

[1:52:26 - 1:52:30] ▶

and so they have this major debt now that they owe to all the corporations that they have

[1:52:30 - 1:52:35] ▶

destroyed their property and the aggressive war war one right and so what they did then is the

[1:52:35 - 1:52:40] ▶

through the power of his office of secretary of state Robert Lansing appoints Alan Dulles

[1:52:40 - 1:52:47] ▶

who is legal counsel for brown brothers heraman to be the lawyer for Germany

[1:52:49 - 1:52:53] ▶

and he conducts a negotiation pursuant to which those war reparations will be covered

[1:52:54 - 1:53:00] ▶

by brown brothers heraman they're going to extend loans to the German government to pay the war

[1:53:00 - 1:53:06] ▶

reparations and they're going to take a security for those loans stock in all their major military

[1:53:06 - 1:53:11] ▶

that's really crazy in 1924 George Herbert Walker leaves brown brothers heraman sets up the

[1:53:11 - 1:53:19] ▶

the union bank of New York completely capitalized by the guys who are part brown brothers heraman

[1:53:19 - 1:53:23] ▶

all this 25 investors take capitalized the bank they set up a foreign subsidiary up in the

[1:53:23 - 1:53:29] ▶

Netherlands called the Bank of Shipping and Commerce is run by Fritz Thysen and they finance

[1:53:29 - 1:53:34] ▶

the construction of the international headquarters of the Third Reich so crazy and they start

[1:53:34 - 1:53:39] ▶

funding money to to Hitler to rise up to become the bulwark against Bolshevism in Europe

[1:53:39 - 1:53:46] ▶

and so that they wanted Hitler to establish this kind of fascist government the economic theory

[1:53:47 - 1:53:52] ▶

of which is you place all the instrumentalities of the government at the disposal of the interest of

[1:53:52 - 1:53:58] ▶

the private corporations and they will then help you know help the major corporations the

[1:53:58 - 1:54:04] ▶

corporations will prosper they'll hire more people it'll stimulate your economy you know and people

[1:54:04 - 1:54:09] ▶

all the way up into the top agreed with that that's a great idea like Henry Ford in the guys at

[1:54:09 - 1:54:15] ▶

brown brothers heraman they thought that's a good idea to do that right for it had an ideological

[1:54:15 - 1:54:19] ▶

sympathies as well that was what they were doing so that's how in it then when Hitler started coming

[1:54:19 - 1:54:25] ▶

off the leash yep and deciding that he was not only going to go nationalize everything he's

[1:54:25 - 1:54:31] ▶

going to nationalize everything he's going to take it all over and so that ended up getting

[1:54:31 - 1:54:35] ▶

sort of out of control yeah they lost control of him but it's like this is like a really interesting

[1:54:35 - 1:54:39] ▶

narrative that the CIA they're set up by all a gop holistic interest yes yeah to be to be able to

[1:54:39 - 1:54:48] ▶

set up a an economic system uh-huh uh-huh that was actually fascist uh-huh that was actually putting

[1:54:48 - 1:54:54] ▶

the instrumentalities of the government at the disposal of the interests of the corporations

[1:54:54 - 1:54:58] ▶

because then the corporations could could deploy for example sending a military expeditionary

[1:54:58 - 1:55:03] ▶

force down to Nicaragua you know in ousting the democratic elected government all on behalf all

[1:55:03 - 1:55:08] ▶

on behalf of who yeah sort of Yankee don't you know there's a book called the three new deals

[1:55:08 - 1:55:14] ▶

and it was like Hitler Mussolini and FDR and they were all sort of compared uh and it was sort of

[1:55:14 - 1:55:21] ▶

it it just shows how sympathetic the US was to Hitler you know uh just after 33 and before

[1:55:21 - 1:55:28] ▶

before 38 well except if the R wasn't because they tried assassinating him they they were planning

[1:55:28 - 1:55:34] ▶

to overthrow him I didn't know that oh yeah 1934 brawm brothers her and the people planned

[1:55:34 - 1:55:40] ▶

to overthrow the Franklin Roosevelt is that true oh yeah absolutely true and so absolutely

[1:55:40 - 1:55:45] ▶

they tried to plan there they tried to recruit the common down in the United States Marine Corps

[1:55:45 - 1:55:50] ▶

General Butler to lead a major insurrection of the of the World War II veterans uh-huh know

[1:55:50 - 1:55:56] ▶

against Franklin Roosevelt's government oust him uh into put put smettly Butler the general

[1:55:56 - 1:56:02] ▶

Butler in charge uh in that they were going to have a fascist government the Carnegie's

[1:56:02 - 1:56:07] ▶

yeah Rockefellers yeah you know that these are all the gilded age family they're just the gilded

[1:56:07 - 1:56:11] ▶

age got it okay so when you say that's robber barons you know that's where they're the gilded

[1:56:11 - 1:56:15] ▶

that's exactly right that's exactly and they were just they were just very very

[1:56:15 - 1:56:19] ▶

event built for they were yes right yeah absolutely they were very effective doing what they were

[1:56:19 - 1:56:24] ▶

doing and that they carried what they were doing to the logical conclusions and say well look

[1:56:24 - 1:56:29] ▶

why why wouldn't we exercise a control over the government but but that this is this is what

[1:56:29 - 1:56:34] ▶

was going on uh-huh and the the bottom line is is that that after because Hitler came off the

[1:56:34 - 1:56:42] ▶

leash yeah and started becoming totally excessive yeah about what he was doing in Europe uh

[1:56:42 - 1:56:48] ▶

and then started going after all the Jewish people you know and started doing all these kind of

[1:56:48 - 1:56:52] ▶

excessive things still you need to remember um it's going to be kind of a shocking observation but

[1:56:52 - 1:56:58] ▶

the United States never declared war on Germany really never did they declared war on

[1:56:58 - 1:57:04] ▶

Japan after power after Japan after pro harbour and in Germany declared war on the United States

[1:57:04 - 1:57:09] ▶

because they were in the access because there was this huge powerful group inside the United States

[1:57:09 - 1:57:16] ▶

that didn't want to go to war with Germany well the critique of FDR at the time was like he

[1:57:16 - 1:57:21] ▶

was not paying attention to any of the stuff going on with the Holocaust and that he waited way too long

[1:57:21 - 1:57:27] ▶

and that you know yeah I mean he didn't want to go to he didn't want to go to war initially

[1:57:27 - 1:57:33] ▶

and then once he realized that he that well because the whole lobby didn't want to go to war

[1:57:33 - 1:57:39] ▶

against Germany yeah because they're the ones that he created but they're there are summer

[1:57:39 - 1:57:42] ▶

embers that he might have had pre-knowledge of Pearl Harbor he didn't wouldn't that that's not

[1:57:42 - 1:57:46] ▶

you see that that's true I know that's true they they lured the Japanese in because he was convinced

[1:57:46 - 1:57:52] ▶

that they were eventually going to have to go to war anyhow uh and so that what he wanted to do

[1:57:52 - 1:57:56] ▶

is he wanted to rally the American people behind it so what he did is he ordered all of the destroyers

[1:57:56 - 1:58:01] ▶

and that all three the major aircraft carriers into Pearl all at one time and they were monitoring

[1:58:01 - 1:58:06] ▶

the Japanese trafficking and they realized that they said oh what's your confidence level that he

[1:58:06 - 1:58:12] ▶

had knowledge that's 100% okay so 100% okay because we know that they they had the cable traffic

[1:58:12 - 1:58:19] ▶

they had the inter the communications going on with all the Japanese military yep and they knew

[1:58:19 - 1:58:24] ▶

that they were luring them in and once they decided they were going to do it he sent the

[1:58:24 - 1:58:29] ▶

personal order the night before the attack on December December 7th he ordered all the aircraft

[1:58:29 - 1:58:35] ▶

carriers to leave under the cover of night hmm that's the key once you see that they ordered

[1:58:35 - 1:58:40] ▶

them all out of there and they let him bomb Pearl Harbor in in sink a number of the fairly outmoded

[1:58:40 - 1:58:48] ▶

destroyers anyhow that they had the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked

[1:58:48 - 1:58:55] ▶

by naval and air forces of the empire of Japan once Japan did that then they declared he got

[1:58:56 - 1:59:05] ▶

a declaration of war against Japan not against Germany and then Germany declared war on the

[1:59:05 - 1:59:09] ▶

United States okay so let's jump back to so the so this is what so the so remember the

[1:59:09 - 1:59:14] ▶

haramon is a very powerful yeah center of organizing okay and so that so that when when Kennedy

[1:59:14 - 1:59:23] ▶

was deciding that that he was going to do this backdoor channel thing with Nikita Khrushchev and

[1:59:23 - 1:59:29] ▶

start issuing orders to disassemble and destroy the the nuclear warheads that when

[1:59:29 - 1:59:36] ▶

Dulles find out about that what he does goes to brahme brothers haramon and they give the green

[1:59:36 - 1:59:40] ▶

lights hey that's it you know that this guy's got to go and he knew about the s force so that they

[1:59:40 - 1:59:46] ▶

just they just target the s force which George H. W. Bush involved in the death of JFK no he

[1:59:46 - 1:59:53] ▶

he was notified just before it was coming down as Lyndon Johnson was they were notified that

[1:59:53 - 2:00:00] ▶

this was happening because they had said look at he's trying to he's trying to disassemble the

[2:00:00 - 2:00:05] ▶

nuclear warheads of our arsenal they all got together the jager Hoover and in the kitchen George

[2:00:05 - 2:00:10] ▶

H. W. Bush was CIA and I think he went missing the rumor was for 12 days no no he was we know

[2:00:10 - 2:00:16] ▶

where he was he was he was in doubt he was in a meeting at the ranch of Clint Merchinson is where

[2:00:16 - 2:00:21] ▶

not the one the will huck up but the one in Dallas so he was helping coordinate this one no no he

[2:00:21 - 2:00:26] ▶

was just being briefed okay he was just being told notified that this was getting ready to happen

[2:00:26 - 2:00:31] ▶

okay and so that's it but he he had pre-knowledge of JFK's yes that's what he did that's what

[2:00:31 - 2:00:37] ▶

Johnston did uh uh who were did the Lyndon Johnson thing makes because it was viewed to me it was

[2:00:37 - 2:00:43] ▶

viewed as the patriotic thing to do because he was he was a traitor in their eyes and he was

[2:00:43 - 2:00:52] ▶

actually planning to physically disassemble the nuclear warheads and destroy them you know I mean

[2:00:52 - 2:00:58] ▶

what more what a greater act of treason could you do doing it in I'm behest of this is a

[2:00:58 - 2:01:04] ▶

crazy there's so many angles today and so that's why they did that's why they felt completely

[2:01:04 - 2:01:08] ▶

self-righteous about it they deployed the S-Force you know the guy that killed him is Robert

[2:01:08 - 2:01:12] ▶

is Roger Morales yes the the dead eye shot for the for the uh for the team you know off the

[2:01:12 - 2:01:18] ▶

null and it turns out he was one of the men on the grassy null oh yeah that's right the key guy

[2:01:18 - 2:01:23] ▶

and what's his name Morales Roger Morales and and Cabal is one of Delas's right hand men and

[2:01:23 - 2:01:30] ▶

there's this weird narrative with him where his brother is the mayor of Dallas right Cabal

[2:01:31 - 2:01:36] ▶

and Cabal yeah that's right was it Cabal or Cabal Cabal Cabal Cabal and brother the mayor

[2:01:36 - 2:01:41] ▶

of Dallas re-routed JFK's motorcade is that right yeah he was involved in the decision to do it yeah

[2:01:41 - 2:01:47] ▶

and there's a weird kind of UFO connection there because Cabal you know CIA officer Cabal

[2:01:47 - 2:01:55] ▶

had seen Blue Book and he said you know this is a super shoddy operation this is written up in

[2:01:56 - 2:02:01] ▶

Edward J. Ruppelt's book and so he actually became part of Blue Book right he actually had

[2:02:01 - 2:02:08] ▶

authority in Project Blue Book to fix the place up and run it you know uh so that that's all true

[2:02:08 - 2:02:14] ▶

you know it's one of those data points that you have to look at and say what does that mean

[2:02:14 - 2:02:18] ▶

does it mean what you think it might mean how many things could it mean etc but the bottom line is

[2:02:19 - 2:02:24] ▶

is that the Oswald the most impopular part of this whole reality is that everybody thinking

[2:02:24 - 2:02:30] ▶

Oswald just as innocent guy does it happen to be in the neighborhood that's not true at all

[2:02:30 - 2:02:34] ▶

do you think he was brainwasher coerced or you know I think I think what he did is he realized

[2:02:34 - 2:02:42] ▶

that there was a plan to put to have him go up there and take a shot at at Kennedy not to kill him

[2:02:42 - 2:02:50] ▶

but take the shot at him so what they could then do is say oh look he's connected to Cuba

[2:02:50 - 2:02:55] ▶

that's why he did that fake the Cuban free Cuba committee thing yeah and that they could blame

[2:02:55 - 2:03:00] ▶

him some time in Russia and then they that's right and then they could run in attack you know he

[2:03:00 - 2:03:04] ▶

thought he was going to be the only one that was going to be taking the shot at him and then

[2:03:04 - 2:03:09] ▶

because trying to run away uh and then they were gonna eventually catch though he uh well he was

[2:03:09 - 2:03:14] ▶

he was or was he ideologically down to be martyrs no no he just believed that it was going to work

[2:03:14 - 2:03:19] ▶

he was going to get arrested and then they were going to come to his aid okay you know that he

[2:03:19 - 2:03:23] ▶

was going to get legal defense and he'd do all these other kind of things and but as soon as he saw

[2:03:23 - 2:03:27] ▶

TIP it soon as he saw TIP it coming for him he killed TIP he shot and killed TIP it and TIP it is

[2:03:27 - 2:03:33] ▶

the police officer that he killed yeah right because TIP it was assigned to go get him right

[2:03:33 - 2:03:37] ▶

and because he had too much knowledge you think they oh yeah Jack Ruby to kill him yes and Jack

[2:03:37 - 2:03:43] ▶

Ruby Jack Ruby I think was maybe an MKL trip patient he wasn't required he was a mob guy you know

[2:03:43 - 2:03:48] ▶

I mean the mob guys were all in the assassination team and everything yes but it wasn't it didn't

[2:03:48 - 2:03:53] ▶

require brainwashing him or anything yeah but it was really odd because he never recalled killing

[2:03:53 - 2:03:58] ▶

Lee Harvey Oswald and as soon as he kills him he's going you know because all these amami nightclub

[2:03:58 - 2:04:03] ▶

guy and all the cops around him are you know resting him and he's going what are you doing I'm Jack

[2:04:03 - 2:04:06] ▶

Ruby and then in his jail cell for six months or whatever he doesn't recall you know ever having

[2:04:06 - 2:04:11] ▶

anything to do with the killing and then he's seen by Jolly West who we know is you know ran

[2:04:11 - 2:04:17] ▶

MKL Tro is in correspondence with but he also he also tried to get to talk to her warm directly to tell

[2:04:17 - 2:04:22] ▶

him what was really going on yeah you know he got a Ruby Jack Ruby did well that's why that's why

[2:04:22 - 2:04:28] ▶

you get Jolly West in there and Jolly West spends 24 hours with him in his jail cell no no records of

[2:04:28 - 2:04:33] ▶

this and he comes out and he says Jack Ruby has had a psychotic break Jack Ruby goes nuts and he says

[2:04:33 - 2:04:39] ▶

you know I'm I'm hearing Jews screaming on the other end of you know my jail so I think they're

[2:04:39 - 2:04:44] ▶

dying or whatever and so to me that screams that at least at least there he was brainwashed I don't

[2:04:44 - 2:04:50] ▶

know about prior well what what I'm saying is that the with Occam's razor applying Occam's razor it

[2:04:50 - 2:04:55] ▶

doesn't require all of that for him to be directed by the mob to do the initial take out take out Oswald

[2:04:55 - 2:05:01] ▶

correct get him the hell out of there correct in fact it would probably imply he was lucid and had

[2:05:01 - 2:05:06] ▶

some knowledge if he were brainwashed by Jolly West which I think he was well so maybe he was actually

[2:05:06 - 2:05:12] ▶

aware of what was going on when he killed him yeah and that's right they saw him as a liability

[2:05:12 - 2:05:17] ▶

and they had to take him out to Jolly West yeah so so the the plan the plan was is to simply have have

[2:05:17 - 2:05:23] ▶

have Oswald take the shot at Kennedy yeah uh flea yeah run away get away and have tipped

[2:05:24 - 2:05:31] ▶

it uh-huh kill him and so they'd have the single the lone gunman shot and kill and it'd be over

[2:05:31 - 2:05:39] ▶

to be done with right which is the classic m.l. that's how you do it right and but as soon as he saw

[2:05:39 - 2:05:44] ▶

a tippet coming to see him he shot him and killed him and then he ended up to flee and realized that

[2:05:44 - 2:05:51] ▶

he was getting screwed because he didn't know there were any other shooters yeah it is also when you

[2:05:51 - 2:05:55] ▶

read the transcript of Jackie O coming off Air Force one and being greeted by one advantage Johnson

[2:05:55 - 2:06:02] ▶

you know Johnson and JFK sort of hated each other by that time sure and uh I do see LBJ

[2:06:02 - 2:06:08] ▶

sort of this ruthless guy it's president Johnson has left the hospital in Dallas but we do not know

[2:06:09 - 2:06:16] ▶

to where he has proceeded yeah he was that he was that and like you you hear I don't know what you

[2:06:17 - 2:06:23] ▶

just read the transcript of him speaking to Jackie O and she kind of runs into his arms and he's

[2:06:23 - 2:06:29] ▶

seems freaked out he's like they're gonna get us they're gonna get us all yeah and to me it seems

[2:06:29 - 2:06:34] ▶

like a lot of action role playing a little bit fake you'll jack valanti yeah jack valanti told me

[2:06:34 - 2:06:39] ▶

all about it okay jack valanti was with him so that's right jack valanti was with him he locked

[2:06:39 - 2:06:43] ▶

himself in the bathroom at an Air Force one uh-huh he locked he locked himself in the bathroom and wouldn't

[2:06:43 - 2:06:48] ▶

come out in jack valanti had to go and get him uh-huh take him out of there and he was going through

[2:06:48 - 2:06:52] ▶

this whole thing they're gonna kill us all they're gonna kill us all but he'd already been notified

[2:06:52 - 2:06:56] ▶

yeah uh the previous night yeah uh out at uh Clint merchants house uh in their their least

[2:06:56 - 2:07:03] ▶

three witnesses to testify to that so rf k jr. thinks that his father was not killed by sir

[2:07:03 - 2:07:10] ▶

Hanser Han he was shot from the back by a guy named Eugene thing Caesar I've talked about your

[2:07:10 - 2:07:14] ▶

both as a lane who is coordinating with Bob Mayhew who's he uses lawyer yeah and so that's a

[2:07:14 - 2:07:21] ▶

that's a crazy revelation and I think Eugene thing Caesar goes on to become a bodyguard at skunk

[2:07:21 - 2:07:27] ▶

works well he he got employed with mayhew right in mayhew mayhew was working with summa

[2:07:27 - 2:07:35] ▶

corporation my understanding is that he was working with mayhew around the time may he was

[2:07:35 - 2:07:40] ▶

clearly coordinating with him around the assassination and then this Eugene thing Caesar went on to work

[2:07:40 - 2:07:46] ▶

at skunk works but yeah I could be wrong okay but yeah but but I but I think it was I think it

[2:07:46 - 2:07:50] ▶

was summa corporation okay which is was it chooses operation okay okay okay summa summa

[2:07:50 - 2:07:55] ▶

so yeah what what do you make of that I mean that's insane that's a pretty why try not to be insane

[2:07:56 - 2:08:01] ▶

yeah no but it's just it's like a bombshell like important you know thing that people need to know

[2:08:01 - 2:08:06] ▶

well it's uh it's uh interesting you know I've talked about it and Bobby was going to go be meeting

[2:08:06 - 2:08:12] ▶

with the fellow to try to get him to do it and the guy insisted upon being paid you know $10,000

[2:08:12 - 2:08:17] ▶

he wouldn't sit down and talk about you at all and Bobby just blew him off it was the guy yeah Eugene

[2:08:17 - 2:08:23] ▶

down Caesar yeah exactly wow you know you know that I was a little surprised it seemed like it was

[2:08:23 - 2:08:28] ▶

worth 10 grand yeah that seems worth 10 grand although I could see now wanting to be out of extorted

[2:08:28 - 2:08:33] ▶

out of pride yeah yeah right your father is not that's what he did yeah no I'm not going the way yeah

[2:08:33 - 2:08:38] ▶

yeah yeah but that it's pretty it's a pretty crazy story and I think the other you know

[2:08:38 - 2:08:44] ▶

possibilities that Sir Hanser Han himself was an MK ultra patient true because he had spent some

[2:08:44 - 2:08:49] ▶

time with William Jennings Bryan not to be confused with the 19th century William Jennings Bryan but

[2:08:49 - 2:08:54] ▶

the guy who's probably involved in MK ultra and I think he was working at the Santa Ana race

[2:08:54 - 2:08:59] ▶

yeah we did we did the we did the only case against MK ultra that won you know we actually we

[2:08:59 - 2:09:05] ▶

looked like case was that that there was there was a woman who was the daughter of a fellow out on

[2:09:05 - 2:09:13] ▶

Long Island that was a tennis pro and he he like some tennis pros was having affairs with some

[2:09:13 - 2:09:21] ▶

of the women the wives that were getting trained to be tennis player yeah in his wife divorced him

[2:09:21 - 2:09:27] ▶

he became totally depressed about being abandoned like that and he started meeting with a friend of

[2:09:27 - 2:09:33] ▶

his who was a psychologist and the psychologist said you know you actually need to have a little bit

[2:09:33 - 2:09:38] ▶

more to just talking to a psychologist you need to get kind of more counseling said it was

[2:09:38 - 2:09:44] ▶

a friend of mine works at a family which is a big hospital in New York City something like Sloan

[2:09:44 - 2:09:51] ▶

Kettering or one of those big yeah he said in that my friend works there so you could go there

[2:09:51 - 2:09:57] ▶

and take a whole week be there in residence and you can have a meeting with him in the morning

[2:09:57 - 2:10:02] ▶

and meeting the afternoon for each day for a week you know so he agrees to go do that well it turns

[2:10:02 - 2:10:07] ▶

out they were doing MK Ultra experiments there at the place and so that after about two days of

[2:10:07 - 2:10:14] ▶

general counseling with the psychiatrist there they dose him with a huge mass of LSD without telling him

[2:10:14 - 2:10:21] ▶

and because he totally freaked out I mean it's hard enough when you know what's happening

[2:10:22 - 2:10:25] ▶

but he was just freaked out and they told him falsely that he'd had a psychotic break

[2:10:26 - 2:10:31] ▶

and that he would have to stay there for a little bit longer and they would have to help figure

[2:10:32 - 2:10:35] ▶

out what's going on here and then like four days later they give him a second massive dose

[2:10:35 - 2:10:40] ▶

and he dies of a heart attack Jesus correct and so they're freaking out at the place and so what they do

[2:10:40 - 2:10:47] ▶

is they they have to bring in lawyers from the army and from the intelligence community

[2:10:47 - 2:10:54] ▶

to come in to cover for them and it turns out that what is this guy's name

[2:10:54 - 2:10:59] ▶

I don't remember his name I had other lawyers do this right in the bottom I've got it in the

[2:10:59 - 2:11:07] ▶

files but the bottom line is is that the lawyer that came in for the US Army to cover it up their

[2:11:07 - 2:11:14] ▶

involvement in this was Jacob Javits who went on to become the United States Senator from New York

[2:11:14 - 2:11:20] ▶

and the other lawyer that was representing the intelligence community was was Warren Berger

[2:11:21 - 2:11:27] ▶

who went on to become the Chief Justice United States Supreme Court these two guys

[2:11:28 - 2:11:32] ▶

came in and covered up that entire event that took place and when we discovered that in the

[2:11:33 - 2:11:39] ▶

discovery the the judge said that's it we're not going any farther on this case really this is

[2:11:39 - 2:11:47] ▶

going to settle you have her tell how much money she wants really and you will give it to her

[2:11:47 - 2:11:53] ▶

because Warren Berger had already become yeah out of the US Supreme Court in a way yeah that's true

[2:11:53 - 2:11:58] ▶

that's why that is true what do you think the purpose because I have some weird conspiracies about

[2:11:58 - 2:12:02] ▶

like what they tried to do with MKL true I don't know if you have any theory they thought they thought

[2:12:02 - 2:12:07] ▶

that you know if you dose somebody with with LSD yeah it will dissolve away yeah the boundaries

[2:12:07 - 2:12:14] ▶

yeah of their concept structures yeah you know and that if one of their concept structures is that

[2:12:14 - 2:12:20] ▶

they have to remain loyal and keep secret certain information that they've got that you'll dissolve

[2:12:20 - 2:12:25] ▶

those away yeah and that under interrogation you can get them to come clean and talk to you so it

[2:12:25 - 2:12:30] ▶

started out as a as a device yeah LSD to have a device of interrogation truth Sam but there was I

[2:12:30 - 2:12:38] ▶

think more to it as well where they would construct killers and I think you know like if you look at

[2:12:38 - 2:12:44] ▶

Jolly West you know you had his center for violence reduction yes and the way I think it almost

[2:12:44 - 2:12:50] ▶

worked is like so I think like Charles Manson was an MKL trip patient I have a buddy in LA and

[2:12:50 - 2:12:55] ▶

him Tom O'Neill I know all that well documents it pretty well and so you have to ask like why would

[2:12:55 - 2:13:02] ▶

you make Charles Manson do what he did possibly and it was like maybe it was like to make an

[2:13:02 - 2:13:09] ▶

example out of it marginalized the you know the hippie movement and you know you have the famous

[2:13:09 - 2:13:15] ▶

Donna Tart line you know August 8th 1968 or whatever is the or maybe 69 is the you know the day that

[2:13:15 - 2:13:23] ▶

the 60s ended and it was like you know everybody really you see this long-haired guy and then he

[2:13:23 - 2:13:29] ▶

seems like a hippie but he's like actually super violent well so you make it you make an example out

[2:13:29 - 2:13:34] ▶

of something that you want to marginalize and so it's sort of mass pacification through local

[2:13:34 - 2:13:40] ▶

violence creation or something it's conceivable yeah they're like conceivable isn't the standard

[2:13:40 - 2:13:46] ▶

because there's lots of things that are conceivable you know and there are a lot of them and

[2:13:47 - 2:13:51] ▶

there's a people fixate on something that is conceivable that happens to correspond to their worldview

[2:13:51 - 2:13:57] ▶

is there an MKL trip UFO connection I mean you know as we get to the issue of the UFO stuff there's

[2:13:57 - 2:14:03] ▶

all kinds of issues that are involved in consciousness in the states of consciousness the elevation

[2:14:03 - 2:14:09] ▶

of consciousness all of that stuff which relates tangentially at least to the LSD you know

[2:14:09 - 2:14:14] ▶

that is involved in UFO stuff the entire remote viewing process the entire psychic process

[2:14:15 - 2:14:21] ▶

the entire all that all that stuff with help put off in the in with Russell Targon all those folks

[2:14:21 - 2:14:28] ▶

that whole element of consciousness is a very big deal the UFO thing is so confusing because

[2:14:28 - 2:14:37] ▶

okay you have different threads you have this like consciousness thread where it's like I don't

[2:14:39 - 2:14:43] ▶

know if it's kabala or like certain people can summon this stuff but like you sort of intend on

[2:14:43 - 2:14:50] ▶

the thing happening you know Greer has CE5 or whatever this stuff sort of enters your orbit and

[2:14:50 - 2:14:56] ▶

like that feels different to me than like not some bolts craft it is okay but but it's all it's

[2:14:56 - 2:15:03] ▶

all part of a specific phenomenon you know as long as you confine it to looking at the UFO stuff

[2:15:03 - 2:15:10] ▶

it was good you know the fact that the UFOs appear to be navigated telepathically for example

[2:15:10 - 2:15:15] ▶

and that the that the craft have built into it some kind of an AI capacity to respond telepathically

[2:15:16 - 2:15:22] ▶

to the control of the pilot now that's pretty far out you know when you get into that stuff

[2:15:22 - 2:15:27] ▶

and so the whole question of how telepathy works yeah what are the what are the physiological

[2:15:28 - 2:15:36] ▶

aspects of telepathy and remote viewing you know I mean you know the stuff that Pat Price could do

[2:15:36 - 2:15:42] ▶

yeah you know I mean you know how to how do you explain that yeah you know and when you start

[2:15:42 - 2:15:46] ▶

focusing on that trying to get an understanding what that is you realize that there's do you

[2:15:46 - 2:15:52] ▶

think you can turn that into math or repeatable science or do you think it's this inherently kind of

[2:15:52 - 2:15:56] ▶

ephemeral thing no no I believe it's it's reduccionable you know and so some subtle

[2:15:56 - 2:16:02] ▶

dimensions of physics yeah yeah it's going on yeah and there's something to it or a way to point to

[2:16:02 - 2:16:09] ▶

the human as the carrier of all knowledge and there's something actually like the senses the

[2:16:09 - 2:16:18] ▶

sensory world is actually a reduction on a default state of greater omniscience and if you read

[2:16:18 - 2:16:24] ▶

Plato with more of a belief that maybe he believes in the ontological truth of what he was talking

[2:16:24 - 2:16:30] ▶

about and you read like the myth of error yeah yeah some other things he's hinted at maybe you

[2:16:30 - 2:16:35] ▶

know there's much deeper knowledge that's kind of latent and innate inside a human being ultra that

[2:16:35 - 2:16:41] ▶

is all true okay that is all true yeah I'm sure I'm sure that's true yeah and what I'm the

[2:16:41 - 2:16:48] ▶

process of doing is and they know that I'm doing I mean you know Lou didn't just hire anybody yeah

[2:16:48 - 2:16:53] ▶

you know didn't retain just anybody to be his lawyer yeah I mean he knew perfectly well that for

[2:16:53 - 2:16:57] ▶

20 years I was legal counsel for the disclosure project yeah he knew I wrote down a Dr. John Mac he

[2:16:57 - 2:17:02] ▶

knew that I was a fear group that's interesting though that you represented both grier and

[2:17:02 - 2:17:06] ▶

Elizondo because they hate each other right it's unfortunate why do they hate each other so much

[2:17:07 - 2:17:11] ▶

because I I unfortunately I grew up grier obviously you know both of them have their fair share of

[2:17:12 - 2:17:19] ▶

critics but yeah grier to me like he's more right than like you know like I there's something about

[2:17:19 - 2:17:29] ▶

the presentation of the guy that I kind of detest or something like it's just sort of a really

[2:17:29 - 2:17:34] ▶

ridiculous megalomaniacal and and yet like I think a lot of stuff he says he was early on so much

[2:17:34 - 2:17:40] ▶

and I think a lot of it probably checks well I mean that you know why does anybody hate anybody if

[2:17:40 - 2:17:48] ▶

they really know I mean the more you know the more you forget yeah for why people do what they do

[2:17:48 - 2:17:53] ▶

uh-huh you know that I don't I don't think people hating each other is is very constructive but I

[2:17:53 - 2:17:58] ▶

know that it's not a good idea for for them to hate each other yeah uh that there's uh there's a

[2:17:58 - 2:18:05] ▶

a constructive uh relationship that could be formed do you think Nixon was pretty

[2:18:06 - 2:18:14] ▶

interested in UFOs because he was there's a famous Jackie Gneeson at least something yeah I know

[2:18:14 - 2:18:19] ▶

about that that you know he was he was I guess I guess you could call it I had more or less kind of

[2:18:19 - 2:18:24] ▶

a purine interest in it yeah it was it was kind of this kind of itch that he had to kind of know

[2:18:24 - 2:18:29] ▶

but he was he was so involved in so many kind of low consciousness things that were going on

[2:18:29 - 2:18:35] ▶

mm-hmm I think this was kind of above his in that is pay grade but is kind of level of consciousness

[2:18:35 - 2:18:41] ▶

that it was it was just something he couldn't probably figure out how to use it yeah you know

[2:18:41 - 2:18:46] ▶

politically he was very smart and very crafty and and just didn't fit into anything as far as

[2:18:46 - 2:18:51] ▶

I could tell I think five men apparently caught in the act of burglarizing and bugging democratic

[2:18:51 - 2:18:57] ▶

headquarters in Washington the watergate thing just seems like so crazy it seems like you know

[2:18:57 - 2:19:02] ▶

this like all these deeper layers than other people as to you know how how it went down I do

[2:19:02 - 2:19:07] ▶

and so what's your version of the story high level and then we can get into some of the you

[2:19:07 - 2:19:12] ▶

know deeper names and narratives and that's right the high level is that uh the key to it is that

[2:19:12 - 2:19:18] ▶

that there were four traffic county guys mm-hmm there was uh e-hard hunt mm-hmm

[2:19:18 - 2:19:27] ▶

who was the leozane to the to the everglades operation in operation mangos he also said he

[2:19:28 - 2:19:39] ▶

was involved in the JFK assassination and he said that uh JFK was killed over UFOs well he his

[2:19:39 - 2:19:46] ▶

son says he said that uh he said okay didn't know and then and then Frank Sturgis was on the team

[2:19:46 - 2:19:55] ▶

they did the burglary mm-hmm he was the leozane out on on Swan Island okay for that group so the

[2:19:55 - 2:20:02] ▶

same as the first guys are their esports guy yeah right so those are both esports guys and the Cubans

[2:20:02 - 2:20:09] ▶

were esports guys mm-hmm and then they had mccord who was there who was the CIA wirecapping

[2:20:09 - 2:20:15] ▶

specialist mm-hmm okay and so when I was brought on to and Dallas Dallas once called mccord the best

[2:20:15 - 2:20:23] ▶

guy ever had or something yeah well in what Nixon said literally in the smoking gun thing if you

[2:20:23 - 2:20:29] ▶

peel off that scab uh there's an awful lot of stuff that could come out that we don't want out uh

[2:20:29 - 2:20:35] ▶

and he was referring to hunt okay and that whole smoking gun and when you look at the smoking gun

[2:20:35 - 2:20:41] ▶

conversation on the 21st of June that they were the hold them in uh in Nixon on the tapes that uh

[2:20:41 - 2:20:47] ▶

that hold them in comes into the office and says uh mr. president i think we've got a problem here

[2:20:47 - 2:20:51] ▶

and he said what is it by you said uh uh pat gray who's the new FBI director uh he just

[2:20:52 - 2:20:58] ▶

went and stalked his Hoover and died uh he says pat gray uh his called uh and they got a problem

[2:20:58 - 2:21:04] ▶

uh that uh the FBI people are insisting upon going down and investigating the bank

[2:21:05 - 2:21:12] ▶

down in Mexico City mm-hmm where those bills came from that were in Bernard Barker's pocket

[2:21:13 - 2:21:19] ▶

uh and he wants to know if that's going to cause any trouble the White House. Nixon says uh Bob

[2:21:20 - 2:21:26] ▶

what I want you to do is I want you to go and get John Ehrlichman I want you to have

[2:21:27 - 2:21:32] ▶

go over to the agency uh and I want to see burning Walters uh in Dick Helms and you tell him right now

[2:21:32 - 2:21:40] ▶

to contact the uh to contact the FBI in terms to get the hell out of that part of the investigation

[2:21:41 - 2:21:47] ▶

and hold him and says well you know what am I going to tell him to say and he said uh you just tell

[2:21:48 - 2:21:54] ▶

him uh if they dig into that part of this investigation all the Mexico stuff about the Cuban

[2:21:54 - 2:22:02] ▶

guys are all going to come out that's Wauhaqa that's the Cuban guys that are being trained in

[2:22:02 - 2:22:08] ▶

assassination well because that bank account where those monies came out of where those bills were

[2:22:08 - 2:22:16] ▶

in Bernard Barker's pocket mm-hmm was in the bank account of this lawyer by the name of Agario

[2:22:16 - 2:22:21] ▶

which is where they put the money from the skim off the casinos through Marsello in Orno Arleines

[2:22:22 - 2:22:31] ▶

and into the Miami National Bank of uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh marlansky and they would wire it

[2:22:31 - 2:22:38] ▶

into the bank account down in Mexico City to pay the cost of that triangular fire team base

[2:22:38 - 2:22:43] ▶

mm-hmm that's where the money came from it was in the pocket of Bernard Barker and so the question is

[2:22:43 - 2:22:49] ▶

if anybody punched into that what does it lead to you know it leads the Kennedy assassination

[2:22:49 - 2:22:55] ▶

Right there.

[2:22:55 - 2:22:57] ▶

And Nixon was terrified, I don't peel off that.

[2:22:57 - 2:23:00] ▶

He was terrified because the guy whose office they were in in the DNC that Larry O'Brien

[2:23:00 - 2:23:12] ▶

before becoming the new head of the DNC to run the campaign against Nixon in 72 had been

[2:23:12 - 2:23:19] ▶

the major lobbyists in Washington DC for power use.

[2:23:19 - 2:23:24] ▶

And Nixon knew it.

[2:23:24 - 2:23:28] ▶

Nixon went, oh shit.

[2:23:28 - 2:23:30] ▶

He said if Larry O'Brien was told about what we did back in 1960 creating that assassination

[2:23:30 - 2:23:38] ▶

team.

[2:23:38 - 2:23:39] ▶

That's going to lead back to the fact that they're the ones that killed the president because

[2:23:39 - 2:23:43] ▶

he knew they were the ones that killed the president.

[2:23:43 - 2:23:45] ▶

And it wasn't any way that he was going to be able to convince anybody that he wasn't

[2:23:45 - 2:23:49] ▶

behind it because he's the one that organized the assassination team that ended up killing

[2:23:49 - 2:23:53] ▶

the president.

[2:23:53 - 2:23:54] ▶

And so he freaked out and he said you've got to get that shut down.

[2:23:54 - 2:24:00] ▶

You've got to find out whether he's going to say anything about it.

[2:24:00 - 2:24:03] ▶

It's really interesting.

[2:24:03 - 2:24:04] ▶

So you go into his office, I want you to bug his phones and I want you to, he didn't say

[2:24:04 - 2:24:08] ▶

it.

[2:24:08 - 2:24:09] ▶

So his paranoia really did him in.

[2:24:09 - 2:24:10] ▶

He was trying to over-correct the fact that he would have to shut that thing down.

[2:24:10 - 2:24:14] ▶

That's fascinating.

[2:24:14 - 2:24:15] ▶

And so that's why they went in and that's why you had to have guys from the shooter team

[2:24:15 - 2:24:19] ▶

that were in there because they had to know what they were looking for.

[2:24:19 - 2:24:22] ▶

And nobody else could know what they were looking for.

[2:24:22 - 2:24:24] ▶

So you couldn't bring anybody else to do it.

[2:24:24 - 2:24:26] ▶

And you say what the hell are these traficati guys doing in there?

[2:24:26 - 2:24:30] ▶

So that was the question I asked.

[2:24:30 - 2:24:31] ▶

I was assigned to go back to Washington to monitor the hearings, the Watergate hearings

[2:24:31 - 2:24:37] ▶

that were going on.

[2:24:37 - 2:24:39] ▶

And so they were going to have one of the hearing things and it was televised.

[2:24:39 - 2:24:43] ▶

So I was sitting in the goal of key motel with my investigator, William John Stone Taylor,

[2:24:43 - 2:24:50] ▶

who was the protege, I mentioned to you, the bad Andy Toney, who headed up the Moriartian

[2:24:50 - 2:24:55] ▶

Associates investigative firm.

[2:24:55 - 2:24:57] ▶

He's my guy, right?

[2:24:57 - 2:24:59] ▶

Treetour Vietnam CID Marine Corps guy, right?

[2:24:59 - 2:25:03] ▶

And he's sitting there and they bring on to testify Jerry Alch.

[2:25:03 - 2:25:12] ▶

Who was listed as the official attorney for James McCord.

[2:25:13 - 2:25:19] ▶

And he comes in Dan Innoway, from Hawaii.

[2:25:19 - 2:25:26] ▶

And what's his name?

[2:25:26 - 2:25:27] ▶

From North Carolina, Sam Irvin, our interviewing him, right?

[2:25:27 - 2:25:33] ▶

And Dan Innoway says, Mr. Alch, you said, your partners with you represent James McCord.

[2:25:33 - 2:25:42] ▶

Is that correct?

[2:25:42 - 2:25:43] ▶

He said, yes.

[2:25:43 - 2:25:44] ▶

He said, you're the law partner of Lee Bailey, aren't you?

[2:25:44 - 2:25:48] ▶

He said, yes, yes I am.

[2:25:48 - 2:25:50] ▶

He said, now, isn't Mr. Bailey under indictment, down in Florida, on a charge of, you know,

[2:25:50 - 2:25:57] ▶

mail fraud?

[2:25:57 - 2:25:58] ▶

And he said, yes, but that's going to be dismissed right away, because I had already filed

[2:25:58 - 2:26:02] ▶

the motions of dismissive, which we won.

[2:26:02 - 2:26:04] ▶

All right?

[2:26:04 - 2:26:05] ▶

So that's just going to be dismissed right away.

[2:26:05 - 2:26:07] ▶

So they said, yes, but Innoway says, well, couldn't one get the sense that Mr. Bailey

[2:26:07 - 2:26:14] ▶

might be attempting to keep McCord from testifying in order to do a favor for somebody very high

[2:26:14 - 2:26:24] ▶

up in the administration in exchange for getting good treatment on his criminal case.

[2:26:24 - 2:26:30] ▶

And Jerry said, but that isn't true.

[2:26:30 - 2:26:34] ▶

You know, and what happened is just as that testimony was going to come in, Lee Bailey

[2:26:34 - 2:26:38] ▶

walks into the hotel room, where we are.

[2:26:38 - 2:26:42] ▶

He comes walking in and he's standing there listening to this testimony.

[2:26:42 - 2:26:46] ▶

And he hears the testimony and he turns around and walks out into the hall and we heard

[2:26:46 - 2:26:52] ▶

him slugging quarters into a pay phone, which was totally weird, because he used to carry

[2:26:52 - 2:26:58] ▶

this briefcase around that had a telephone in it.

[2:26:58 - 2:27:02] ▶

And he would kind of move away from all of us and he'd go over to a place where nobody

[2:27:02 - 2:27:06] ▶

could be around.

[2:27:06 - 2:27:07] ▶

And he would open up the suitcase and he'd pull out the antenna and he would have this telephone

[2:27:07 - 2:27:11] ▶

that he could talk to somebody that he was talking to a bunch of times.

[2:27:11 - 2:27:14] ▶

And we couldn't figure out what this was.

[2:27:14 - 2:27:16] ▶

And even bad Andy didn't know who that was, right?

[2:27:16 - 2:27:18] ▶

So, so, so, he just says that he goes out in the hall and we hear him putting the claims

[2:27:18 - 2:27:26] ▶

in the phone and I turned to Bill Taylor and I say, the hell is this all about?

[2:27:26 - 2:27:30] ▶

And he said, I don't know.

[2:27:30 - 2:27:32] ▶

And I said, find out, okay?

[2:27:32 - 2:27:36] ▶

And so, he goes and talks to bad Andy.

[2:27:36 - 2:27:40] ▶

And then bad Andy didn't want to tell him.

[2:27:40 - 2:27:43] ▶

He said, no, no, he says, you boys are good boys.

[2:27:43 - 2:27:47] ▶

You don't want to get involved in any of this kind of stuff he says.

[2:27:47 - 2:27:50] ▶

And you don't say that to a private investigator.

[2:27:50 - 2:27:52] ▶

You don't really want to know.

[2:27:52 - 2:27:53] ▶

So, he said, so, but he said, yes, I do.

[2:27:53 - 2:27:55] ▶

I want to know, he kept leaning on bad Andy.

[2:27:55 - 2:27:58] ▶

And bad Andy is the one that brought him into the private investigation firm because he's

[2:27:58 - 2:28:01] ▶

an old marine corps guy.

[2:28:01 - 2:28:03] ▶

So, so, so, Billy keeps after him.

[2:28:03 - 2:28:05] ▶

Finally, he says, look, here's the story.

[2:28:05 - 2:28:09] ▶

It turns out that Lee is on index four for the agency.

[2:28:09 - 2:28:14] ▶

He's one of the four attorneys that are on retainer for the Central Intelligence Agency.

[2:28:14 - 2:28:20] ▶

So that if any CIA operative is caught state side, engaged in a covert operation, which

[2:28:20 - 2:28:26] ▶

is totally forbidden by the National Security Act in 1947, that he's one of the lawyers

[2:28:26 - 2:28:34] ▶

that will be retained.

[2:28:34 - 2:28:36] ▶

That's why James McCord has reached out to him.

[2:28:36 - 2:28:41] ▶

This is after Watergate?

[2:28:41 - 2:28:43] ▶

This is during the Watergate hearings.

[2:28:43 - 2:28:44] ▶

Yeah, this is after Watergate.

[2:28:44 - 2:28:45] ▶

Because McCord was led off for, right, like within four months.

[2:28:45 - 2:28:49] ▶

It was given four to five years.

[2:28:49 - 2:28:51] ▶

McCord is the guy that wrote the letter to Judge Serica.

[2:28:51 - 2:28:54] ▶

Blow in the whistle.

[2:28:54 - 2:28:55] ▶

Yeah.

[2:28:55 - 2:28:56] ▶

And Nixon.

[2:28:56 - 2:28:57] ▶

Exactly.

[2:28:57 - 2:28:58] ▶

And the plumbers.

[2:28:58 - 2:28:59] ▶

Exactly.

[2:28:59 - 2:29:00] ▶

And the guy that did that, right?

[2:29:00 - 2:29:01] ▶

Yeah.

[2:29:01 - 2:29:02] ▶

Yeah.

[2:29:02 - 2:29:03] ▶

So, I'm saying there's a lot of...

[2:29:03 - 2:29:04] ▶

So, why wasn't Nixon set up in this, in this model of what happened?

[2:29:04 - 2:29:06] ▶

Because McCord is this sort of deep CIA guy who's, you know, very close with Dallas.

[2:29:06 - 2:29:10] ▶

No, because, because we know that.

[2:29:10 - 2:29:12] ▶

And then Nixon is the one that ordered the break in.

[2:29:13 - 2:29:17] ▶

He wasn't being set up.

[2:29:17 - 2:29:18] ▶

He's the one that ordered the break in in order to see what the later...

[2:29:18 - 2:29:20] ▶

Yeah, but then they sold them out afterwards.

[2:29:20 - 2:29:23] ▶

Well, so you have to separate out it.

[2:29:23 - 2:29:26] ▶

So it wasn't done to set him up.

[2:29:26 - 2:29:29] ▶

Okay.

[2:29:29 - 2:29:30] ▶

But so what happened is McCord.

[2:29:30 - 2:29:33] ▶

McCord out of our office is the one that gets pissed off.

[2:29:33 - 2:29:39] ▶

Over the fact that he thinks they're all getting sold down the stream here.

[2:29:39 - 2:29:43] ▶

And he's saying, what's the stress?

[2:29:43 - 2:29:45] ▶

Look, I was told that this was it, because he wasn't briefed in.

[2:29:45 - 2:29:48] ▶

Got it.

[2:29:48 - 2:29:49] ▶

He didn't know.

[2:29:49 - 2:29:50] ▶

Got it.

[2:29:50 - 2:29:51] ▶

He was just putting the wiretap equipment and stuff in.

[2:29:51 - 2:29:53] ▶

Got it.

[2:29:53 - 2:29:54] ▶

And he was told the reason they were doing this is because they thought that the DNC was

[2:29:54 - 2:30:00] ▶

helping to coordinate anti-Vietnam demonstrations.

[2:30:00 - 2:30:04] ▶

Got it.

[2:30:04 - 2:30:05] ▶

And that they were therefore engaged in national security.

[2:30:05 - 2:30:07] ▶

So he thought he got sold out.

[2:30:07 - 2:30:08] ▶

And he thinks he got sold out.

[2:30:08 - 2:30:10] ▶

So he got pissed off about this.

[2:30:10 - 2:30:12] ▶

And so he writes the letter of Sirika, right?

[2:30:12 - 2:30:14] ▶

That's what happened.

[2:30:14 - 2:30:15] ▶

I mean, and we know exactly what happened.

[2:30:15 - 2:30:17] ▶

So when I find out, when Taylor gets all this information bad ending, they lay it out to

[2:30:17 - 2:30:24] ▶

us in detail.

[2:30:24 - 2:30:25] ▶

He went down to Hank Gonzales.

[2:30:25 - 2:30:29] ▶

Hank Gonzales is officially technically the lawyer for Kravakanti.

[2:30:29 - 2:30:33] ▶

He was just a cover for Bailey.

[2:30:33 - 2:30:35] ▶

Right?

[2:30:35 - 2:30:36] ▶

But then who ends up helping out Woodward and Bernstein?

[2:30:36 - 2:30:38] ▶

So deep.

[2:30:38 - 2:30:39] ▶

That was Mark Pelt.

[2:30:39 - 2:30:41] ▶

So I still don't understand.

[2:30:41 - 2:30:43] ▶

Mark Pelt was getting, he's the guy that was insisting upon going down the next morning

[2:30:43 - 2:30:49] ▶

to Mexico to investigate the bank account.

[2:30:49 - 2:30:52] ▶

Wow.

[2:30:52 - 2:30:53] ▶

That was Mark Pelt.

[2:30:53 - 2:30:54] ▶

He was going down to follow the money.

[2:30:54 - 2:30:55] ▶

What, where did that money come from?

[2:30:55 - 2:30:56] ▶

They tracked it back to that bank.

[2:30:56 - 2:30:58] ▶

But if he's the deputy director of the FBI, right?

[2:30:58 - 2:31:01] ▶

Mark Pelt.

[2:31:01 - 2:31:02] ▶

And then he's acting as this sort of anonymous tip-off guy for Woodward and Bernstein at

[2:31:02 - 2:31:09] ▶

the Washington Post.

[2:31:09 - 2:31:11] ▶

Doesn't that again point towards this sort of coordinated effort against Nixon, where

[2:31:11 - 2:31:16] ▶

he's sort of trying to expose this to the dissimpress?

[2:31:16 - 2:31:19] ▶

No, what was it?

[2:31:19 - 2:31:20] ▶

Mark Pelt was still pissed off that he'd been passed over for the head of the FBI.

[2:31:20 - 2:31:30] ▶

So he was the peer-to-peer-out.

[2:31:30 - 2:31:32] ▶

I was a person who was charged by it.

[2:31:32 - 2:31:36] ▶

Because he was pissed off that they were trying to cut him off.

[2:31:36 - 2:31:38] ▶

He was trying to go down and do that investigation, legitimate investigation of what the hell

[2:31:38 - 2:31:42] ▶

happened here.

[2:31:42 - 2:31:43] ▶

And he, in gray, was telling him not to go.

[2:31:43 - 2:31:46] ▶

Okay.

[2:31:46 - 2:31:47] ▶

Because gray had called the White House and said, look, I've got FBI people that are wanting

[2:31:47 - 2:31:53] ▶

to go down and do the investigation of this bank.

[2:31:53 - 2:31:56] ▶

That's when Nixon said, go get the agency to shut him off.

[2:31:56 - 2:32:01] ▶

So Felts' motivation was basically, he was pissed personally.

[2:32:01 - 2:32:07] ▶

And he wanted to do the investigation that would have led him to the original S-Force set

[2:32:07 - 2:32:11] ▶

up.

[2:32:11 - 2:32:12] ▶

So he would find, well, he didn't know what it was going to lead to.

[2:32:12 - 2:32:15] ▶

Yeah, but it would have.

[2:32:15 - 2:32:16] ▶

It wouldn't have.

[2:32:16 - 2:32:17] ▶

Absolutely.

[2:32:17 - 2:32:18] ▶

And then James McCord was pissed that he was getting sold out.

[2:32:18 - 2:32:20] ▶

That's right.

[2:32:20 - 2:32:21] ▶

Sold out?

[2:32:21 - 2:32:22] ▶

It was given, you know, not the right information as to why he was going into the agency.

[2:32:22 - 2:32:26] ▶

That's exactly very interesting.

[2:32:26 - 2:32:28] ▶

And so that when we get this information from Trafford County, Bill Taylor and I say,

[2:32:28 - 2:32:34] ▶

holy shit.

[2:32:34 - 2:32:35] ▶

You know, look, we're in the middle of here.

[2:32:35 - 2:32:38] ▶

That we now know that in fact, the assassination team that was created back in 1960 by Richard

[2:32:38 - 2:32:44] ▶

Nixon, are the ones that killed the president.

[2:32:44 - 2:32:46] ▶

Isn't it wild that a mob boss drug dealer knows more about the true history of American politics

[2:32:46 - 2:32:52] ▶

than the average American citizen?

[2:32:52 - 2:32:54] ▶

Oh, no, that's not surprising.

[2:32:54 - 2:32:55] ▶

I mean, that's not surprising to you.

[2:32:55 - 2:32:57] ▶

Anybody knows more than the average citizen than the nice citizen.

[2:32:57 - 2:32:59] ▶

I mean, I would be surprising to somebody off the street.

[2:32:59 - 2:33:03] ▶

Do you think there was or could have been a CIA conspiracy to remove you from office?

[2:33:03 - 2:33:14] ▶

I don't know.

[2:33:14 - 2:33:16] ▶

I know many people think so.

[2:33:16 - 2:33:19] ▶

I would say that I've had it found a difficult to understand why the CIA, which apparently

[2:33:19 - 2:33:26] ▶

had advanced knowledge of the breaking, didn't inform me.

[2:33:26 - 2:33:30] ▶

I found it difficult to understand how it could have been that at least two of those involved

[2:33:30 - 2:33:39] ▶

had CIA connections.

[2:33:39 - 2:33:41] ▶

And nevertheless, it was not brought to my attention as far as the break of breaking

[2:33:41 - 2:33:47] ▶

a curry.

[2:33:47 - 2:33:48] ▶

Here's another weird connection that you might be familiar with.

[2:33:48 - 2:33:53] ▶

So we talked about G Gordon Liddy and we talked about Bob Mayhew.

[2:33:53 - 2:33:58] ▶

There are photos with both of those guys and John Lear.

[2:33:58 - 2:34:02] ▶

And John Lear is very involved in the Bob Lazar stuff.

[2:34:02 - 2:34:05] ▶

And so when I talked to Jeremy Corbell and George Napp, I don't understand why they're

[2:34:05 - 2:34:10] ▶

so dogmatically like pro-Lizar being at least accepted at face value.

[2:34:10 - 2:34:15] ▶

Because I'm like, look, I'm not discounting your reporting.

[2:34:15 - 2:34:17] ▶

I think the reporting was good.

[2:34:17 - 2:34:19] ▶

But the idea that this wasn't pushed out by the CIA, I think, is just it's like you're

[2:34:19 - 2:34:25] ▶

not able to think properly about this.

[2:34:25 - 2:34:27] ▶

Because you had this guy and John Lear, who's son of Bill Lear, whether he was a useful

[2:34:27 - 2:34:32] ▶

idiot or an agent provocateur, I don't know, probably a useful idiot, I don't know.

[2:34:32 - 2:34:38] ▶

But he had been spending a decade outside of Area 51.

[2:34:38 - 2:34:43] ▶

And you spend a decade outside of Area 51, the security guards know you there.

[2:34:43 - 2:34:47] ▶

Like this is all documented.

[2:34:47 - 2:34:48] ▶

Why the hell would they not do a basic background check on Bob Lazar?

[2:34:48 - 2:34:52] ▶

No, he's best friends with the guy camping out and sketching all these kind of exotic

[2:34:52 - 2:34:57] ▶

aircraft around Area 51.

[2:34:57 - 2:34:59] ▶

That would be number one.

[2:34:59 - 2:35:00] ▶

Number two, why would you continue to have him fly cargo jets for you?

[2:35:00 - 2:35:05] ▶

And be a pilot for you for various missions into the 80s, which he says he disaffiliated

[2:35:05 - 2:35:10] ▶

in 83, but he really disaffiliated much later.

[2:35:10 - 2:35:12] ▶

Let me tell you a story to make you even more confounded.

[2:35:12 - 2:35:17] ▶

I'm in Jesuit headquarters here in Washington, D.C.

[2:35:17 - 2:35:22] ▶

And I get a call, I get a call on the phone.

[2:35:22 - 2:35:26] ▶

And it is what's the name?

[2:35:26 - 2:35:30] ▶

Got it owned Rebel magazine in the Larry Flint.

[2:35:30 - 2:35:35] ▶

So I get a call from Larry Flint.

[2:35:35 - 2:35:38] ▶

You know who the guy is down at?

[2:35:38 - 2:35:40] ▶

Larry Flint's guy that owned like 30 different magazines.

[2:35:40 - 2:35:45] ▶

Rebel magazine and jet in these skin magazines and all this kind of stuff.

[2:35:45 - 2:35:50] ▶

He had gotten sued for libel because in one of the magazines that he published, someone

[2:35:50 - 2:35:58] ▶

wrote a story using a woman who won the Miss Oklahoma or something, Beauty Contest.

[2:35:58 - 2:36:08] ▶

So she filed a lawsuit against him in one, in the case of going all the way to the United

[2:36:08 - 2:36:13] ▶

States Supreme Court.

[2:36:13 - 2:36:14] ▶

And his lawyers were challenging it as a violation of First Amendment.

[2:36:14 - 2:36:17] ▶

I mean, he's coming into Washington, D.C. to go to the Supreme Court argument.

[2:36:17 - 2:36:22] ▶

He calls me on the phone.

[2:36:22 - 2:36:23] ▶

He says, Dan, he says, Larry Flint here.

[2:36:23 - 2:36:27] ▶

I went, ah, okay, you okay, Miss Flint?

[2:36:27 - 2:36:30] ▶

What?

[2:36:30 - 2:36:31] ▶

He said, well, I'm coming to town for the Supreme Court.

[2:36:31 - 2:36:33] ▶

I mean, I'd like to have a meeting with you if I could.

[2:36:33 - 2:36:36] ▶

Could you come and see me tomorrow?

[2:36:36 - 2:36:37] ▶

I'm going to be staying at the hotel.

[2:36:37 - 2:36:42] ▶

So I say, okay, what's it about?

[2:36:42 - 2:36:44] ▶

He said, I can't talk with you on the phone about it.

[2:36:44 - 2:36:47] ▶

So at the next day, I get father William J. Davis, who was my Jesuit superior at the headquarters.

[2:36:47 - 2:36:54] ▶

And we jump in the blue flame because the little car is, we drive over to the hotel, right?

[2:36:54 - 2:36:59] ▶

And here, like, four of these big stretch limos all parked in front of this hotel, which

[2:36:59 - 2:37:03] ▶

is the Larry Flint entourage that are all there, right?

[2:37:03 - 2:37:06] ▶

So we go into the lobby.

[2:37:06 - 2:37:09] ▶

And we say, you know, my name's Attorney Dan Sheen, father Bill Davis, we're here to see

[2:37:09 - 2:37:13] ▶

Larry Flint.

[2:37:13 - 2:37:14] ▶

Oh, yes, he said, you know, and they bring us over to this elevator in the, they bring

[2:37:14 - 2:37:18] ▶

us up to the top floor of the penthouse, right?

[2:37:18 - 2:37:20] ▶

We get out the elevator and here's Larry Flint and his goal played at wheelchair, right?

[2:37:20 - 2:37:24] ▶

It's because he got shot.

[2:37:24 - 2:37:26] ▶

Somebody tried to assassinate.

[2:37:26 - 2:37:28] ▶

He's in this gold, he played at wheelchair and he brings us into the side room and he said,

[2:37:28 - 2:37:34] ▶

I want to retain you at this Christ the Christic Institute that you guys have.

[2:37:34 - 2:37:40] ▶

We'd like to retain you to investigate the death of Savage.

[2:37:40 - 2:37:47] ▶

What was her first name?

[2:37:47 - 2:37:50] ▶

She was the original host, hostess of frontline.

[2:37:50 - 2:37:55] ▶

Okay.

[2:37:55 - 2:37:56] ▶

When it first started on PBS, right?

[2:37:56 - 2:38:01] ▶

Jessica Savage.

[2:38:02 - 2:38:03] ▶

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2:38:03 - 2:38:04] ▶

Her name was.

[2:38:04 - 2:38:05] ▶

And she and her husband had driven off a bridge in the middle of some storm and he'd gotten

[2:38:05 - 2:38:11] ▶

drowned and killed.

[2:38:11 - 2:38:13] ▶

And he said, I think that that was a murder.

[2:38:13 - 2:38:18] ▶

And I want to retain you guys to do the investigation.

[2:38:18 - 2:38:21] ▶

You guys did the care and so could investigation.

[2:38:21 - 2:38:24] ▶

You've done all these kind of things.

[2:38:24 - 2:38:26] ▶

So I said, you know, well, we don't, you know, we're a 501c3 public interest group.

[2:38:26 - 2:38:30] ▶

You know, we don't get hired to do investigations.

[2:38:30 - 2:38:33] ▶

I said, you could make a contribution to us if you wanted to.

[2:38:33 - 2:38:37] ▶

It's all tax deductible.

[2:38:37 - 2:38:39] ▶

And I said, and we could then look into this if we figure out that there's some sort of

[2:38:39 - 2:38:43] ▶

major public interest thing here that this was a murder and she's a major reporter and

[2:38:43 - 2:38:49] ▶

there's something important.

[2:38:49 - 2:38:50] ▶

You know, we could then make that public.

[2:38:50 - 2:38:53] ▶

And he said, well, would you do this?

[2:38:53 - 2:38:55] ▶

Would you just let me know first?

[2:38:55 - 2:38:57] ▶

So I could publish it in my magazine, in Rebel magazine, and I'll give you guys the million

[2:38:57 - 2:39:04] ▶

dollar contribution.

[2:39:04 - 2:39:06] ▶

And I said, I think we could do that.

[2:39:06 - 2:39:08] ▶

But there's one thing he said, I've got an investigator that I'd like to have work with

[2:39:08 - 2:39:13] ▶

you on this.

[2:39:13 - 2:39:14] ▶

I said, no, no, no, that's not how we do it.

[2:39:14 - 2:39:17] ▶

You know, we've got our own investigators because I had not only the guy's, Bill Taylor

[2:39:17 - 2:39:22] ▶

and the guys that were in Miami and so it was still kept doing stuff for us for free.

[2:39:22 - 2:39:27] ▶

But I also had all the Jesuit guys, 42 countries all around the world that are giving information

[2:39:27 - 2:39:31] ▶

to our headquarters.

[2:39:31 - 2:39:32] ▶

But I said, no, no, I said, we'll do this ourselves.

[2:39:32 - 2:39:35] ▶

You know, just let me introduce you to them.

[2:39:35 - 2:39:38] ▶

And he dials the phone and door opens up and in walks, G Gordon Litty.

[2:39:38 - 2:39:44] ▶

He walks into the room and I looked at him and he comes over and he sticks his hand out

[2:39:44 - 2:39:49] ▶

like that.

[2:39:49 - 2:39:50] ▶

I said, excuse me.

[2:39:50 - 2:39:51] ▶

I said, you know, I told you, I told you we're not going to be dealing with anybody that

[2:39:51 - 2:39:57] ▶

you want to put in it and especially him.

[2:39:57 - 2:39:59] ▶

And Litty turned to Flint and he said, see, I told you, I told you he wouldn't do it.

[2:39:59 - 2:40:03] ▶

So we say, no, we're not going to do this.

[2:40:03 - 2:40:06] ▶

And we don't know whether he was going to give us the million dollars or not.

[2:40:06 - 2:40:09] ▶

So I go downstairs and I, we're down the elevator and I'm starting to walk out of the hotel.

[2:40:09 - 2:40:14] ▶

And all of a sudden somebody says, Mr. Sheen, Mr. Sheen.

[2:40:14 - 2:40:18] ▶

And I said, yes, yeah, what is it?

[2:40:18 - 2:40:20] ▶

I go over and it was Gordon Novel.

[2:40:20 - 2:40:22] ▶

Who is that?

[2:40:22 - 2:40:24] ▶

Ah, good.

[2:40:24 - 2:40:25] ▶

You don't know.

[2:40:25 - 2:40:26] ▶

Gordon Novel is the guy that was arrested and prosecuted by James Garrison in the

[2:40:26 - 2:40:32] ▶

Orleans for burning down 555 Camp Street.

[2:40:32 - 2:40:37] ▶

The office where where where Lee Hosswell had the office along with the guy that was the

[2:40:37 - 2:40:49] ▶

hardcore right wing guy that was the head of the Latin American anti-communist league.

[2:40:49 - 2:40:58] ▶

One of the guy that was the former FBI guy that was down in New Orleans.

[2:40:58 - 2:41:04] ▶

That was that guy's name.

[2:41:04 - 2:41:06] ▶

But anyway, he had an office in the same, in the exact same building on the exact same

[2:41:06 - 2:41:10] ▶

floor.

[2:41:10 - 2:41:11] ▶

Whoa, with him.

[2:41:11 - 2:41:13] ▶

And Gordon Novel was prosecuted and convicted for burning down that building in the midst of

[2:41:13 - 2:41:23] ▶

the investigation.

[2:41:23 - 2:41:24] ▶

That's crazy.

[2:41:24 - 2:41:25] ▶

Okay.

[2:41:25 - 2:41:26] ▶

And so it gets crazier.

[2:41:26 - 2:41:27] ▶

Okay.

[2:41:27 - 2:41:28] ▶

So he says, I want you to represent me.

[2:41:28 - 2:41:33] ▶

I want to get that criminal conviction of me.

[2:41:33 - 2:41:37] ▶

Expunged.

[2:41:37 - 2:41:39] ▶

And I said, well, you've already been convicted of it.

[2:41:39 - 2:41:41] ▶

And if that was years ago, and you've already served the time and everything for it, you

[2:41:41 - 2:41:46] ▶

see, you don't do that.

[2:41:46 - 2:41:47] ▶

He said, no, no, I just want you to get that expunged for me.

[2:41:47 - 2:41:52] ▶

And so I said, I don't know anything about it.

[2:41:52 - 2:41:55] ▶

But here's my card.

[2:41:55 - 2:41:56] ▶

You can call me if you're, so I go back to the office in a few days later.

[2:41:56 - 2:41:59] ▶

He calls and he says, how's that investigation going?

[2:41:59 - 2:42:02] ▶

And I said, no, I said, I have an investigation.

[2:42:02 - 2:42:05] ▶

He said, what?

[2:42:05 - 2:42:06] ▶

You son of a bitch.

[2:42:06 - 2:42:07] ▶

You know, I can find it in you.

[2:42:07 - 2:42:10] ▶

He started to kill me.

[2:42:10 - 2:42:13] ▶

Gordon Novel, right?

[2:42:13 - 2:42:15] ▶

Well, Gordon Novel ends up later being hired by John Alexander.

[2:42:15 - 2:42:22] ▶

Well, to be one of the investigators for NIDS.

[2:42:22 - 2:42:26] ▶

Well, to go around, you know, trying to make people who are contacting these come and give

[2:42:26 - 2:42:32] ▶

them the information.

[2:42:32 - 2:42:33] ▶

And he's a spotter for people who are getting abducted.

[2:42:33 - 2:42:37] ▶

Well, through my lab, crazy, abductions, right?

[2:42:37 - 2:42:41] ▶

And that's him.

[2:42:41 - 2:42:42] ▶

OK?

[2:42:42 - 2:42:43] ▶

And so Gordon Novel, years later, and you're implying that he was kind of part of the cover

[2:42:43 - 2:42:46] ▶

up the JFK satellite.

[2:42:46 - 2:42:47] ▶

Well, I'm just telling you what the facts are.

[2:42:47 - 2:42:49] ▶

Well, the facts are weird.

[2:42:49 - 2:42:50] ▶

The facts are weird.

[2:42:50 - 2:42:51] ▶

The facts are weird.

[2:42:51 - 2:42:52] ▶

Down 555, the hamster.

[2:42:52 - 2:42:53] ▶

The facts are weird.

[2:42:53 - 2:42:54] ▶

Which was being used as what?

[2:42:54 - 2:42:55] ▶

By Lee Harvey Oswald?

[2:42:55 - 2:42:56] ▶

That was in office for the free Cuba group.

[2:42:56 - 2:43:02] ▶

OK.

[2:43:02 - 2:43:03] ▶

The alleged Cuba was right.

[2:43:03 - 2:43:04] ▶

And this guy, Bender, whatever his name was, had his office right next door to him.

[2:43:04 - 2:43:08] ▶

So Gordon Novel pops back up as this UFO.

[2:43:08 - 2:43:11] ▶

He passed, well, later, because this, I'm out, 1994.

[2:43:11 - 2:43:15] ▶

I'm out, you know, representing Dr. John Mack.

[2:43:15 - 2:43:17] ▶

And I was asked to do a presentation of the International UFO Congress.

[2:43:17 - 2:43:21] ▶

So I'm doing a report on the International UFO Congress.

[2:43:21 - 2:43:24] ▶

And all of a sudden Gordon Novel walks up out of the crowd and says, Mr. Shan, he said,

[2:43:24 - 2:43:29] ▶

look, I've got all these drawings of stuff about the UFOs and how their propulsion system

[2:43:29 - 2:43:35] ▶

works and all that kind of stuff.

[2:43:35 - 2:43:37] ▶

And he starts showing them to me.

[2:43:37 - 2:43:38] ▶

And he said, I've been working on these things and had a lot of time when I was in prison

[2:43:38 - 2:43:43] ▶

to produce.

[2:43:43 - 2:43:44] ▶

And I'd like to have you represent me to get my stuff patented here.

[2:43:44 - 2:43:47] ▶

He says, that's Gordon Novel.

[2:43:47 - 2:43:50] ▶

And I'm saying, excuse me.

[2:43:50 - 2:43:53] ▶

I said, I don't think you quite remember.

[2:43:53 - 2:43:55] ▶

You're threatening to kill me.

[2:43:55 - 2:43:56] ▶

Yeah.

[2:43:56 - 2:43:57] ▶

A number of years ago, he says, I didn't really mean that.

[2:43:57 - 2:43:59] ▶

And I said, and that was the last time you do with it.

[2:43:59 - 2:44:02] ▶

OK.

[2:44:02 - 2:44:03] ▶

So what does all that mean?

[2:44:03 - 2:44:05] ▶

What is exactly does all that mean?

[2:44:05 - 2:44:07] ▶

What I just sort of put it on the wall.

[2:44:07 - 2:44:11] ▶

Yeah.

[2:44:11 - 2:44:12] ▶

It's one of the cards on the wall.

[2:44:12 - 2:44:13] ▶

And you have the threads, the nylon threads you put between the cards.

[2:44:13 - 2:44:18] ▶

You figure out what's going on here.

[2:44:18 - 2:44:20] ▶

But there's lots of weird stuff.

[2:44:20 - 2:44:23] ▶

Lots of weird stuff.

[2:44:23 - 2:44:25] ▶

Lots of weird pieces.

[2:44:25 - 2:44:26] ▶

Those are all little data points, because I know those things to be absolutely true.

[2:44:26 - 2:44:31] ▶

But the reality is that during the Caron Soakwood case that we did, that Caron Soakwood is this

[2:44:31 - 2:44:38] ▶

young, 29-year-old, helped the safety person at a nuclear reprocessing plant.

[2:44:38 - 2:44:46] ▶

It wasn't a nuclear power plant.

[2:44:46 - 2:44:47] ▶

It was the sole place where they were trying to bring dispant fuels from the 103 nuclear

[2:44:47 - 2:44:53] ▶

power plants and then grind it all up into powder and then put it in centrifuges and centrifuge

[2:44:53 - 2:44:59] ▶

out the plutonium and then recover the plutonium and then bring it to the fast flex test facility

[2:44:59 - 2:45:03] ▶

to hamper.

[2:45:03 - 2:45:04] ▶

You know, there was an attempt to figure out what to do with the waste materials.

[2:45:04 - 2:45:08] ▶

And the bottom line is that she discovered that they were missing 40 pounds of 98% bomb grade

[2:45:08 - 2:45:19] ▶

plutonium from this facility.

[2:45:19 - 2:45:21] ▶

And she just concluded that it must have meant that they were really sloppy, that they

[2:45:21 - 2:45:26] ▶

must have been loose around the plant somewhere.

[2:45:26 - 2:45:31] ▶

And so she called the union people that were trying to organize the union at the plant

[2:45:31 - 2:45:40] ▶

and told them that, oh look how sloppy they are, they're missing 40 pounds of 98% bomb grade

[2:45:40 - 2:45:44] ▶

plutonium was going to Israel for nuclear weapons.

[2:45:44 - 2:45:49] ▶

And violation of the nuclear proliferation treaty.

[2:45:49 - 2:45:52] ▶

Really?

[2:45:52 - 2:45:53] ▶

Yeah, and not only that, but they had to then share it with Iran as a condition under the

[2:45:53 - 2:45:57] ▶

Shah and then the two of them had a way.

[2:45:57 - 2:46:01] ▶

Yeah, it was all true.

[2:46:01 - 2:46:03] ▶

You know, and-

[2:46:03 - 2:46:04] ▶

Who is facilitating this in the American side?

[2:46:04 - 2:46:06] ▶

Central Intelligence Agency, a Theodore Shackley who was a temporary guy on the Israeli

[2:46:06 - 2:46:10] ▶

desk, you know, but he had been the former Saigon station chief that ran the assassination

[2:46:10 - 2:46:15] ▶

program in South Asia too.

[2:46:15 - 2:46:18] ▶

But so that what I'm saying is that she didn't know what was happening, but that when she

[2:46:18 - 2:46:24] ▶

got killed on the way to meet with the New York Times reporter to bring him the documents,

[2:46:24 - 2:46:30] ▶

David Burnham, who was figuring there's a rat in the wood pile here somewhere.

[2:46:30 - 2:46:34] ▶

This isn't just missing in the plant and that she got killed.

[2:46:34 - 2:46:38] ▶

I run off the road.

[2:46:38 - 2:46:39] ▶

They rammed her car and ran her off the road and killed her and took the documents out

[2:46:39 - 2:46:42] ▶

of the car.

[2:46:42 - 2:46:43] ▶

This is a real story.

[2:46:43 - 2:46:44] ▶

This is a really true thing that happened.

[2:46:44 - 2:46:46] ▶

I was in charge of the investigation to investigate what happened.

[2:46:47 - 2:46:51] ▶

And what people came up with all kinds of nefarious theories is what could have happened here

[2:46:51 - 2:46:57] ▶

and who could have done this and all that.

[2:46:57 - 2:46:59] ▶

And I had to keep drilling through all of these different theories of what's going on

[2:46:59 - 2:47:03] ▶

here to figure out exactly what did happen.

[2:47:03 - 2:47:08] ▶

And what I discovered is that the people, what they have assumed, they assumed at least

[2:47:08 - 2:47:16] ▶

half a dozen different theories of what was going on.

[2:47:16 - 2:47:19] ▶

What I discovered is that a little bit of two or three of the different theories were

[2:47:19 - 2:47:23] ▶

true, but no one of them was true.

[2:47:23 - 2:47:26] ▶

But there were pieces of what each of them had.

[2:47:26 - 2:47:30] ▶

There are the ones that really came together to explain what actually had happened.

[2:47:30 - 2:47:35] ▶

What I discovered that over and over and over again.

[2:47:35 - 2:47:38] ▶

What's your process?

[2:47:38 - 2:47:39] ▶

I feel like you have to hear something and then catalog everything is possible.

[2:47:39 - 2:47:45] ▶

That's right.

[2:47:45 - 2:47:46] ▶

That's right.

[2:47:46 - 2:47:47] ▶

And then you wait for corroboration.

[2:47:47 - 2:47:49] ▶

I was trying to think people, April, I discount things they hear too much because they're

[2:47:49 - 2:47:55] ▶

too epistemically closed.

[2:47:55 - 2:47:56] ▶

So it's like Bayesian reasoning where it's all Bayesian.

[2:47:56 - 2:48:00] ▶

They're all prior evidence.

[2:48:00 - 2:48:02] ▶

But if you have this like April, I buy this every time you hear somebody say, hey, I saw

[2:48:02 - 2:48:07] ▶

weird thing in the sky, your Bayesian reasoning is going to be totally off because you're just

[2:48:07 - 2:48:11] ▶

putting this in the junk pile when it shouldn't be.

[2:48:11 - 2:48:14] ▶

It just be like, you're open to everything.

[2:48:14 - 2:48:16] ▶

The person that I had trained me in this is Lawrence Tribe.

[2:48:16 - 2:48:22] ▶

Larry Tribe, who is now renowned as the leading American constitutional lawyer, but he was

[2:48:22 - 2:48:31] ▶

a summa cum laude, a mathematics graduate from Harvard College, and then got his PhD,

[2:48:31 - 2:48:38] ▶

summa cum laude from Harvard in mathematics.

[2:48:38 - 2:48:42] ▶

And at the age of 25 was the head of the United States Bureau of Statistics, at the age

[2:48:42 - 2:48:47] ▶

of 25 this guy.

[2:48:47 - 2:48:49] ▶

And he got bored with that after a few years and society was going to law school, went

[2:48:49 - 2:48:53] ▶

to Harvard Law School, became the captain of the varsity debating team for Harvard University

[2:48:53 - 2:49:01] ▶

and still ended up number two in his class at Harvard Law School.

[2:49:01 - 2:49:05] ▶

You know, I mean, this guy is totally brilliant guy.

[2:49:05 - 2:49:08] ▶

And he started out teaching evidence at Harvard and started explaining to us how you go about

[2:49:08 - 2:49:15] ▶

setting out your options in Bayes' theorem in the whole thing.

[2:49:15 - 2:49:21] ▶

And he started explaining, that's right from the very beginning.

[2:49:21 - 2:49:25] ▶

When I learned that and then ended up at Eveli Bailey's office where I had access to 40

[2:49:25 - 2:49:32] ▶

class A licensed private investigator, I could put that kind of investigative skills together

[2:49:32 - 2:49:38] ▶

with working through these different theorems of how these are going.

[2:49:38 - 2:49:42] ▶

And so that's how I've ended up being, I guess it might account for how I end up in these

[2:49:42 - 2:49:46] ▶

peculiar places.

[2:49:46 - 2:49:47] ▶

Yeah.

[2:49:47 - 2:49:48] ▶

Because I've been able to not get drug off onto some one theory of something.

[2:49:48 - 2:49:53] ▶

I try to do the same thing.

[2:49:53 - 2:49:55] ▶

And I think being outside of academia helps us.

[2:49:55 - 2:49:58] ▶

Yes.

[2:49:58 - 2:49:59] ▶

And you become criticized and you have to kind of tiptoe around anything too bold or

[2:49:59 - 2:50:05] ▶

too.

[2:50:05 - 2:50:06] ▶

Yes, they're not designed to really forward the human knowledge in any kind of significant

[2:50:06 - 2:50:12] ▶

way.

[2:50:12 - 2:50:13] ▶

It's all nibbling at the edges.

[2:50:13 - 2:50:15] ▶

I was just with Eric Weinstein and a bunch of other, you know, pretty renowned scientists.

[2:50:15 - 2:50:20] ▶

And you know, I've worked with Eric for a while.

[2:50:20 - 2:50:23] ▶

And Eric is using basic Bayesian reasoning.

[2:50:23 - 2:50:26] ▶

And you know, he's obviously has zone sort of theory of everything in math and physics.

[2:50:26 - 2:50:31] ▶

Yep.

[2:50:31 - 2:50:32] ▶

Has come to the conclusion that he thinks maybe there's a good chance that the US has a secret

[2:50:32 - 2:50:36] ▶

physics program behind, you know, the kind of exoteric glare of physics, which is that's

[2:50:36 - 2:50:41] ▶

a wild revelation that he said names people.

[2:50:41 - 2:50:43] ▶

John.

[2:50:43 - 2:50:44] ▶

John Wheeler, Bryce DeWitt, Freeman Dyson, people like that who were, you know, renowned in the

[2:50:44 - 2:50:50] ▶

50s and 60s.

[2:50:50 - 2:50:52] ▶

And he thinks that maybe there was something going on in the background with them.

[2:50:52 - 2:50:55] ▶

And maybe they were actually interfacing more with aerospace than meets the even Feynman.

[2:50:55 - 2:51:01] ▶

And so yeah, it's very interesting.

[2:51:01 - 2:51:03] ▶

The conclusions you come to once you become open-minded.

[2:51:03 - 2:51:06] ▶

Yeah.

[2:51:06 - 2:51:07] ▶

And I think for a lot of people it took the New York Times and the Pentagon saying this

[2:51:07 - 2:51:12] ▶

stuff is real for them to kind of open the possibility of space on everything else.

[2:51:12 - 2:51:17] ▶

Because it is real.

[2:51:17 - 2:51:19] ▶

It has to shatter everything else.

[2:51:19 - 2:51:21] ▶

You have to go away with physics, you know, religion, everything.

[2:51:21 - 2:51:23] ▶

It has to affect you.

[2:51:23 - 2:51:25] ▶

The one argument I'd say against not trying to piece it all together, I do think having

[2:51:25 - 2:51:32] ▶

one theory of everything allows you to, you know, you want, you want, if you have a bunch

[2:51:32 - 2:51:38] ▶

of high-strangeness events, a bunch of anomalies, it's like you have big foot here and you have

[2:51:38 - 2:51:43] ▶

orbs over there and you have cattle medilation and all these things.

[2:51:43 - 2:51:47] ▶

It's really hard for the average person to not just say that's a basket of crazy.

[2:51:47 - 2:51:52] ▶

It's like it's an amalgamation of crazy that doesn't fit neatly to, you know, scientists

[2:51:52 - 2:51:57] ▶

supposed to be repeatable and predictable.

[2:51:57 - 2:51:59] ▶

And so I do think the theorizing does help get this stuff across the line.

[2:51:59 - 2:52:05] ▶

Yeah.

[2:52:05 - 2:52:06] ▶

And my, usually, that I'm involved in litigation, you know, that requires, you know, you're

[2:52:06 - 2:52:15] ▶

going to have to put this stuff in front of a jury and you're going to have to have

[2:52:15 - 2:52:18] ▶

follow the rules of evidence.

[2:52:18 - 2:52:19] ▶

And you're going to have to have the judge sitting there on your face, you know, trying

[2:52:19 - 2:52:23] ▶

to keep you from putting things in that he or she just doesn't want in, you know, because

[2:52:23 - 2:52:28] ▶

they think that they have their own judgment that that might not be realistic or true.

[2:52:28 - 2:52:34] ▶

And so they don't want you putting it in front of the jury because they think they're

[2:52:34 - 2:52:37] ▶

in charge of the courtroom, you know.

[2:52:37 - 2:52:38] ▶

There's all kinds of things you have to do, but it lends a certain kind of focus to what

[2:52:38 - 2:52:43] ▶

you're doing.

[2:52:43 - 2:52:44] ▶

And you, you, you, you don't just aimlessly speculate about things.

[2:52:44 - 2:52:50] ▶

Given that sometimes I think the metaphysical conversations are frustratingly unfalsifiable,

[2:52:50 - 2:52:56] ▶

they're not, they're sort of not even wrong as Fiamine would say.

[2:52:56 - 2:53:00] ▶

And so there's almost a part of me.

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It's like we should look back at this history in the 50s and 60s in the US where there's

[2:53:01 - 2:53:07] ▶

some interesting people claiming Robert J. Oppenheimer set up UFO secrecy.

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Like Grush has said that on record in an interview with me.

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Let's talk to his grandchildren.

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Let's talk to, you know, anybody who was alive at that time and try to corroborate that.

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There's something about a renowned scientist.

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We just spent $130 million on a Christopher Nolan movie about this guy.

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He's like a, you know, the emblematic kind of American scientist mid-century.

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Yeah.

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If he had anything to do with the UFO story, any smoking gun evidence around that would

[2:53:34 - 2:53:38] ▶

be this massive update, I think, for the average person who's just seen that movie and

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is interested in this character.

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Yeah.

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And so I do think sometimes the conversations are sort of frustratingly woo-woo and we

[2:53:46 - 2:53:51] ▶

can just move it into this territory of like, okay, but what about Oppenheimer?

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You know, what about these people?

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Yeah.

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Well, this is all a personal logical question.

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What is the methodology that a given person utilizes to try to determine for them

[2:54:03 - 2:54:08] ▶

themselves what's true and what's not, you know?

[2:54:08 - 2:54:12] ▶

And the reality of it is that 99% of the people don't have the time or the disposition to

[2:54:12 - 2:54:22] ▶

be trying to find out things for themselves.

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Yeah.

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And so that they just have certain authority figures that they look to that tell them,

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you know, in your train to that, you know, from the time you're in school, oh, your teacher

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is the one that knows, here's Mr. policeman who's coming in to show you how you get across

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the street safely and they're the ones that you need to rely upon.

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And immediately.

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Yeah.

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Here's the New York Times or here's NBC.

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You know, and what they do is they offer to you different epistemological sources of

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authority and the people do not engage in trying to figure things out for themselves.

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Not at all.

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Okay.

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And so given that reality, what happens is that when you introduce into that setting a

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national security state, such as we did at the end of World War II, where we set up a

[2:55:07 - 2:55:13] ▶

central intelligence agency and that their job is to deceive people and to try to engage

[2:55:13 - 2:55:19] ▶

in a greedy, avaristic world domination endeavor, you know, and view themselves in this dialectic

[2:55:19 - 2:55:29] ▶

with the Soviet communism, who they think is trying to take over the world too and they're

[2:55:29 - 2:55:35] ▶

projecting their shadows on each other, you know, and you start to distort reality intentionally.

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Yes.

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And then what they do is they target the epistemological sources of authority and penetrate them.

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What I've been doing all the time is I just taken the information, taken the information,

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stored away, put it in the card up on the wall.

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Do you know what Dr. Eric Walker is?

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No.

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Well, there was a, you know, Robert Sarbacher, do you know that name?

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No.

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So, Sarbacher is a guy who's an atomic energy expert and he was working at the Washington

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National Labs.

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There were rumors that maybe it had taken over parts of, you know, the Manhattan project

[2:56:15 - 2:56:19] ▶

post-op in Heimer in the 50s.

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And he was closely coordinated with Thomas Townsend Brown and he was definitely involved

[2:56:22 - 2:56:28] ▶

in some weird stuff.

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You know, he would put cameras on these sort of modified V2s and they would try to take

[2:56:30 - 2:56:35] ▶

photos of UFOs.

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It was a sycophane effort that didn't end up sort of working out.

[2:56:36 - 2:56:39] ▶

1987, this UFO researcher named William Steinman writes to him and he says, you know, was

[2:56:39 - 2:56:46] ▶

there actually a UFO program I need to know, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And Sarbacher says the rumors about the UFO crashes are fundamentally correct, quote, unquote.

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And I say that because fundamentally correct was actually kind of nomenclature between him

[2:56:56 - 2:57:01] ▶

and Thomas Townsend Brown where you say substantially correct or fundamentally correct.

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You were saying you're probably right on the surface level but you're wrong.

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I'm like just about everything else or something.

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And then he goes on to say, you know, but, you know, von Neumann, Oppenheimer, Van

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of our Bush were all involved in this core program in the 40s and 50s.

[2:57:19 - 2:57:24] ▶

I actually do know a guy who might be able to point in the right direction right now.

[2:57:24 - 2:57:30] ▶

And he describes a guy who kind of matches the description of this guy, Dr. Eric Walker,

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who's an engineer at, and he's actually the president of Penn State.

[2:57:35 - 2:57:40] ▶

And so they go and they go into Eric Walker's office and they're like, do you know anything

[2:57:40 - 2:57:47] ▶

about the UFO stuff?

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And he looks at that.

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Just cold call.

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Right.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Well, he probably maybe had office hours because the university president is about used to

[2:57:52 - 2:57:58] ▶

meeting people.

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And he starts, he gets like kind of shocked but then he kind of regains his composure and

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he goes, yeah, I've known about this for a long time.

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And he's like, but I would know if you guys were cleared in and I know you're not.

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And then he says, you know, you're chasing windmills, you know, kind of quoting Don Quixote.

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