1,862 segments
Have you met an experienced who has gotten an implant?
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I believe these stories at all.
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How about these implants that have been to you's tracking?
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Until I wrote the pat that tells you how they do it.
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So it's almost like we're walking hard drives or something?
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Yeah, I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Blitzow.
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I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David.
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And the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor.
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And the only person that Dory can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama.
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We are here with the great Bob McGuire, very honored to have you.
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Your name keeps coming up.
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I think we are kind of in a lot of the same circles.
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We're very involved in kind of UFO Twitter.
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But you know, UFO Twitter can be a very murky place.
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And I think you have a lot, you kind of rise above the rest as far as really impressive credentials
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and thorough investigation into UFO propulsion and theories about where they exist, how they
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And I think you have the background to kind of back all of this up.
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You really have an amazing history for a couple of decades.
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You worked various three-letter agencies inside the government and then you started,
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got 360, federated wireless.
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And so couldn't be more honored to have you, especially amidst this amazing new backdrop.
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We have a new set for American Alchemy.
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And our co-host, recurring co-host, Jack, who's here who is also very excited to talk
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You can always speak at higher levels than me when it comes to kind of heterodox physics
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So, honor to have you both.
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We're glad to have the great science Bob.
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So, to please tell that to my girlfriend, so she'll think I'm not lying to her.
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Well, let's get this to millions of you.
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You can brag to her.
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So, Jesse, it's a great, I followed you and listened to you and I love your podcast and
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it's an honor to be on it.
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Oh, man, well, it's an honor to have you, really appreciate it.
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And there's so many kind of jumping off points and places to start, but why don't we just
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get into what we were talking about offset a second ago.
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You were saying you think you have a connection.
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I just had Matthew Pines on.
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He was an incredible thing.
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Who is on Matthew Pines is that person who has a near perfect photographic memory who
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decided not to do physics and I'm really just turning him over my knee and spank him for
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not doing physics because the guy is the real deal.
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He commanded the entire field, talked to you about detail stuff that excited me, excited
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my imagination and he did it without looking at a single note for hours.
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Yeah, it was extremely impressive.
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It was very impressive.
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It was one of the few times, especially when he was getting into branch heel and really
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old space where I felt like I could barely track or barely keep up with what he was saying.
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Hyper surface foliation of branch heel space that are computationally bounded relative
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to the underlying structure.
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So they have to do this massive equivalent thing and then they perceive they have a linear
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So they believe that they are continuous and I was like trying to ask decent questions,
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but it was definitely tough hearing that for the first time.
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So there's an issue.
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Law everybody understands the issue in physics now is we have quantum field theory which
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is terrific at doing what it can do.
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And we have general relativity which is terrific at what it can do.
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Every test of general relativity that science has been able to cook up, it continues to
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Every test it passes because one failure and we have to redo the physics.
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And tail theory is the same.
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We're blessed with all sorts of electronics and gadgets and other things in our life now
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that would not have been possible without the quantum revolution in the 20th century.
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And the man kind of at the heart of all of it is Albert Einstein.
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So Einstein did a differential equation that equates the material in the universe to how
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it curves the universe around it.
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David Hilbert did it a different way.
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The big development in the 19th century was one of the big developments was little gonging
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So you take a thing called the action and physics bodies always follow the principle of least
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They take the path of least actions to do something.
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And Hilbert formulated the problem of gravity as a principle of least action and got to
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the answer by a different path than Einstein.
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Do you think that the principles of least action or for multiple principle where light seems
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to almost follow an optimal path between two points?
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That points to some sort of information theoretic underpinning two physics where the whole thing
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is sort of optimized in this kind of computational way?
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So I think through, we now understand that all this matter and energy around us is governed
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by quantum mechanics.
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And in the description of it is in quantum field theory.
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So quantum information theory is now kind of all over the place in versioning and growing
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And eventually we're going to find what John Archibald Wheeler said to me and many others.
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I'll tell you that story to me.
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I want to hear that.
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You're not going to believe how lucky I was.
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So he said it from bit and what he meant was that which constitutes the universe all around
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us are actually bits of information that describes their configuration and the state
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So that's what it from bit went.
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But I never understand that on a lower level.
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It will be the collapse of the wave function breaks down into a bunch of yes-no questions.
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And so you get it from bit or whatever.
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What does that exactly mean?
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Because I think about, yeah, it does feel like whatever eigenstate gets chosen is non-off
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switch or something.
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But how is it a series of yes-no questions that gets the wave function collapse?
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So people don't really yet have a really great theory for the wave function.
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There are some guesses.
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There are some theories that to me have not yet been proven.
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Well, that's always good to have a theory because that describes a theory should allow you
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to describe an experiment that will falsify what you're describing.
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But some kind of interaction with our observation of a quantum state collapses the wave function.
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And all that means is you take all this possible states and you collapse all these possible
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states, which is a huge amount of information to one.
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It's one state out of all the possibilities and doing this observation collapses to that
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You can't predict ahead of time what that state will be.
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You can predict it probabilistically so far as we know and that's the only way.
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And so the everation perspective is there, right?
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The everation hypothesis for the reduction of the wave function.
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There's some hypotheses.
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What is the observer effect collapsing the wave function?
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Which is heavily referenced by a lot of these simulation theory universes.
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So in line with every...
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I'm not convinced that any of them are exactly right.
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So ever it was our Wheeler's student and ever did the multiverse.
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And that seems to be growing in popularity which gets rid of the wave collapse problem.
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In ever it's case, you would say wave function collapse never actually occurs and you just
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get universal fraction.
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You mean the universe is branching off.
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And apparently it's perfectly good mathematically.
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To me, I don't know how we'll ever cast the hypothesis that the universe is a multiverse.
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But apparently others think we can.
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And I hope in an experiment will be constructed that will allow us to say the only possible
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way we could have gotten this experimental result is if there was another universe that
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branched off hours and is still impacting it through this some mechanism.
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Because the mechanism that we will have to find and test.
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And Sabina Haasenfeld has recently argued that you can't test it.
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That it's an untestable hypothesis and sort of therefore an unscientific hypothesis.
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Sabina is a hypercritical, fantastic scientist who has had to give up on her academic career
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because she's angered too many people.
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Which is, I hate because she's very, very capable.
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Yeah, extremely capable theoretical physicist.
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But she doesn't suffer fools gladly.
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How'd you meet John Wheeler?
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Ah, that's interesting.
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So I lived in New Jersey for a period of time, worked for an entity that worked for the
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intelligence community.
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And my wife was a nurse at a retirement community.
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And so she came home one day.
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She says, we have a new resident in the retirement community.
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And she says, it's the same name on a bunch of your books.
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And I went, John Wheeler, and she pointed to us, it says John Wheeler.
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And she said, yes, I said, well, take my books out there and see if you can get into autograph
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them and ask him if I can come and visit them.
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So he autographed my books and invited me to come over.
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So I went over and had tea with him and met his wife.
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And he had a house on his retirement village where you were guaranteed to be there all
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the way through your final hospitalization.
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It was that kind of retirement village.
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And he had a place and I went over and visited him and became a regular visitor.
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What were those interactions like?
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They were fantastic.
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Yeah, look, I would ask questions.
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He would ask me questions.
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He would tell, he explained to me the parts of his big, thick gravitation book that I
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couldn't understand, even though I had a lot of differential geometry.
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And that was interesting.
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But I occasionally just was this chauffeur.
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I would take him up to the Institute for Advanced Studies, Core Press University, so he
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could hear or talk and hear those talks.
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And it was just amazing.
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It was just amazing sitting in the back of the room, watching these people count out
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But the other thing was, where I worked, a member of the advisory board for that place
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that I worked, Freeman Dyson was on it.
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So I got to the inter-work.
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And I went to church with him on there.
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Can you say where you worked?
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Yeah, it was the Institute for Defense Analysis.
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And Freeman Dyson was involved in that.
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Yeah, he was one of the scientific advisory board members.
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Can you say what you did?
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Yeah, I worked on communications problems for the United States government, because it
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was the Institute for Defense Analysis Center for Communications for Surge.
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Well, so as you know, I used to work with a guy named Eric Weinstein.
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He's become convinced that there's like a lineage of secret science in the United States.
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And he would have, Wheeler would be at the center of it.
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It would be like John Wheeler, Freeman Dyson, Bryce DeWitt, Hugh Everett.
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These names would be involved in such a program.
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Do you believe that there are elements of science that are not open source and that have
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been classified by the US government?
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Well, not only do I believe it, I know the mechanism.
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Because the Atomic Energy Act has the ability, so long as you brush up next to it at all,
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of classifying new physics from birth, if it's viewed as touching those fields.
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So one example of that would be, and we're going to get into UFOs and how you got into
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But the special definition of nuclear material in the Atomic Energy Act.
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You read the definition of special nuclear material in the Public Atomic Energy Act in 1954.
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It basically states many material that releases any kind of atomic energy.
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That would be retrieved crash material.
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So it's kind of a sneaky way.
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If you actually read the Atomic Energy Act, if something is not a nuke, but it has
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this radiological energy coming off it, you know, alpha, beta decay, whatever.
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So it is, in my opinion, given Oppenheimer's status up until he lost his clearance, it
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is impossible given what we know now that he did not know what was going on because of
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the initial makeup of the people dealing with the UFO problem at the, at the top national
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security level, especially after the 1952 flyover or watched it or Truman lost his launch
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I mean, he really went nuts.
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Because I've heard there's a, there's an aviation journalist named Curtis Peoples who
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said that Truman was on the phone with Andrew J. Repel, your ran blue book at the time,
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because Truman was so freaked out about the Washington flyover.
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Is that right in your opinion?
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In my opinion, it is completely true.
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People have told me that I have not seen evidence.
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There's a 19-year-old man talking to you or concern you about the unknown and the
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United States flying out.
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Oh, yes, we discussed it with every conference that we had with the military and they never
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had been, and never were able to make me a concrete report on what they say.
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You haven't got anything else to say, sir?
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No, I have nothing on the subject.
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There's always things like that going on that are flying saucers and they have other
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But anyway, I always thought it was probably pretty good because Peoples was the UFO skeptic,
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but he still thought that Truman freaked out about the UFO flyover.
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He did, and I believe that Oppenheimer and other people in the Manhattan Project were
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the original secret keepers and the natural people to call to look into once if one crashed.
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Both you believe David Grush, then they literally set up the secrecy.
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I mean, he's not, I do too.
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He's on record with me saying, you know, we were like, if you could meet anybody in
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history, who would you meet, and he goes?
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I would probably ask Starbocker, Oppenheimer, and be like, what was your thought process
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in the 40s and 50s, scrolling this away?
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I mean, besides overlaying the Manhattan Project secrecy, because Oppenheimer was the one
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who created the classification that included the UFO stuff.
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And it was one of the most interesting parts of your interview with him because I totally
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I'm on record on Twitter, Facebook, and other places, saying people keep pointing a finger
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at the CIA, and they're not looking at where the secrets have to be kept.
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I kept pointing to DOE.
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I kept asking about why people weren't looking at DOE.
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I kept asking why people weren't looking at the Battelle Institute, and a friend of mine
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who was a deep researcher in all this, she was also jumping up and down about Battelle,
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and that's Linda Thompson, who's a premier researcher in the UAP area.
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Speaking of the DOE, you know they funded the Human Genome Project.
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So do you think that connects at all?
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If they somehow have a greater ontological truth around that we're not alone, that aliens
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I was asked by IARPA to take a look at.
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You want to just tell the audience what IARPA is?
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The intelligence community advanced research project agency.
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So it was formed, it was put together after DNI came into being to be the equivalent of
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DARPA for the intelligence community.
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And the current deputy director, DNI Stacey Dixon, was the director when I was asked,
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could I take a look at using CRISPR-Cas9 and coding information into DNA?
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So I decided not to put together a proposal.
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I was too busy with other things and doing some work I can't even discuss for them.
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But they asked you about putting them in?
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Some people in my team at Hume Center at Virginia Tech did put it in a proposal.
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How did I think worked on it?
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It would have been 2013 or 2014.
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These kind of novel data storage techniques are all over different media, right?
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DNA, for instance, crystals, tidbit things.
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We're talking about this on the way over here that the notion of encoding DNA with information,
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I mean, how many layers can you go down into that?
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Particularly with CRISPR-Cas9.
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There is tons, tons of space.
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There are bites of data.
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You can put on DNA that we don't know what it's used for.
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So when the quote, you can use the quote, John DNA, to store all kinds of things.
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Well, that's just fascinating.
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You can store semantic information on DNA.
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It just takes a while to retrieve because it needs to be stored very cool.
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You've got to read it off.
[0:18:16 - 0:18:17] ▶
You'd have to figure out the RNA to read it off.
[0:18:17 - 0:18:19] ▶
But when I was talking to Luel Zondo, I said, if you were an alien race and maybe you,
[0:18:19 - 0:18:25] ▶
in the instance of getting wiped out, wanted to save some monument or something.
[0:18:25 - 0:18:31] ▶
Some really important time capsule for a future civilization that might encounter you.
[0:18:31 - 0:18:38] ▶
And I was suggesting all sorts of things.
[0:18:39 - 0:18:40] ▶
I was like, would you put an object in a Lagrangian point that is sort of just hovering
[0:18:40 - 0:18:45] ▶
right next to the Earth?
[0:18:45 - 0:18:47] ▶
There are all sorts of things you could come up with.
[0:18:47 - 0:18:49] ▶
They'll appear mid-whatever.
[0:18:49 - 0:18:51] ▶
And he said something really interesting.
[0:18:51 - 0:18:52] ▶
You were going to make something truly enduring.
[0:18:52 - 0:18:54] ▶
There's really only two ways to do it.
[0:18:55 - 0:18:57] ▶
You either put something out in deep space where the chances are of it coming into contact
[0:18:57 - 0:19:01] ▶
with something or minimal or biology, genetics.
[0:19:01 - 0:19:06] ▶
Because genetics is a fingerprint.
[0:19:06 - 0:19:08] ▶
And that will continue as long as the species survives and finds other places to live.
[0:19:08 - 0:19:14] ▶
So will that message.
[0:19:14 - 0:19:15] ▶
And you can put a lot.
[0:19:15 - 0:19:17] ▶
And the beauty about DNA is that it self replicates.
[0:19:17 - 0:19:20] ▶
So that message, in essence, if you code it right, could be there as long as the species
[0:19:20 - 0:19:26] ▶
And I was stuck, freaked me out.
[0:19:27 - 0:19:28] ▶
I was like, well, if I were a betting man, I would bet that the intelligence community
[0:19:28 - 0:19:39] ▶
has figured out how to use Christopher Cast9 to transport intelligence that's been gathered
[0:19:39 - 0:19:47] ▶
in the person of an intelligence officer already.
[0:19:47 - 0:19:51] ▶
What if they do it or not?
[0:19:51 - 0:19:53] ▶
I don't have any idea, but I am convinced that it is possible.
[0:19:53 - 0:19:57] ▶
So you're saying the person is a storage mechanism.
[0:19:58 - 0:20:02] ▶
And can walk right through any security system undetected is carrying all that information
[0:20:02 - 0:20:08] ▶
Do you think it would be local or systemic?
[0:20:09 - 0:20:11] ▶
Like, could it be a fingernail?
[0:20:11 - 0:20:12] ▶
I am insufficiently familiar with the technology to know how much you could localize it.
[0:20:14 - 0:20:19] ▶
But you can store the information to tremendous amounts in the DNA of a human.
[0:20:19 - 0:20:27] ▶
It's just fascinating.
[0:20:28 - 0:20:29] ▶
So it's almost like we're walking hard drives or something.
[0:20:29 - 0:20:32] ▶
Well, what would be the practical use of that?
[0:20:33 - 0:20:34] ▶
Like, do you have any examples?
[0:20:34 - 0:20:36] ▶
So Zailu wanted to get out all the schematics for, and the construction documents for every
[0:20:36 - 0:20:43] ▶
classified project that's being done by Russia or China.
[0:20:43 - 0:20:47] ▶
I could encode all of it probably on one or two humans and walking out.
[0:20:47 - 0:20:53] ▶
That is just what I think is possible.
[0:20:54 - 0:20:56] ▶
I don't know that it's being done, but I think it's possible technically.
[0:20:57 - 0:21:01] ▶
You think it remotely sense that.
[0:21:01 - 0:21:03] ▶
You'd have to, in other words, it's like the human is a one-time pad.
[0:21:06 - 0:21:09] ▶
You have to know the human is carrying it before you even know to read it.
[0:21:10 - 0:21:14] ▶
This like, it's gonna be equivalent.
[0:21:15 - 0:21:16] ▶
So, something, the morally equivalent of a one-time pad.
[0:21:16 - 0:21:21] ▶
How'd you get into UFOs?
[0:21:21 - 0:21:23] ▶
So, I had some interesting experiences growing up.
[0:21:24 - 0:21:29] ▶
They're kind of inexplicable.
[0:21:29 - 0:21:31] ▶
And then I woke up one day when I was very young before I went to school, walked into
[0:21:31 - 0:21:36] ▶
where my mother and her friends were visiting with each other, and they were drinking coffee.
[0:21:36 - 0:21:43] ▶
And I went over to a bookcase, pulled a book out, opened it up and started reading it
[0:21:43 - 0:21:48] ▶
And I had never spent a day in school because I was three years old.
[0:21:49 - 0:21:53] ▶
And so, it was just wild.
[0:21:53 - 0:21:55] ▶
And I didn't really remember it until my mother and her best friend later reminded me
[0:21:55 - 0:22:01] ▶
I didn't remember it, but my mother, because I just knew I always could read.
[0:22:02 - 0:22:06] ▶
And my mother and her friend told me this story repeatedly.
[0:22:06 - 0:22:10] ▶
So it was kind of a apocrypha, if you will.
[0:22:10 - 0:22:13] ▶
You think maybe it was primordial knowledge.
[0:22:13 - 0:22:16] ▶
I'm not going to guess.
[0:22:18 - 0:22:20] ▶
The gods or the aliens or whatever gave me a knowledge.
[0:22:20 - 0:22:24] ▶
And so, that kind of went on until I was 10 years old.
[0:22:24 - 0:22:29] ▶
And I bloomed when I was 10 years old.
[0:22:29 - 0:22:32] ▶
I built my own telescope from parts.
[0:22:32 - 0:22:36] ▶
I became an amateur radio operator and built my own equipment.
[0:22:36 - 0:22:40] ▶
I memorized Grayson Atomy from cover to cover, knew the functions.
[0:22:40 - 0:22:44] ▶
It's only you were tested.
[0:22:44 - 0:22:45] ▶
I was tested by a doctor who didn't believe me.
[0:22:45 - 0:22:49] ▶
And he came to a Thanksgiving dinner at my parents' home and told me to stand on the
[0:22:49 - 0:22:56] ▶
hearth of the fireplace and be grilled by this doctor.
[0:22:56 - 0:23:01] ▶
And he couldn't stunt me.
[0:23:01 - 0:23:03] ▶
So he knew I knew Grayson Atomy.
[0:23:03 - 0:23:05] ▶
He had like a perfect, idetic memory here.
[0:23:06 - 0:23:07] ▶
It's gotten worse with age.
[0:23:08 - 0:23:12] ▶
But it's still good.
[0:23:12 - 0:23:13] ▶
It's still very, very good.
[0:23:13 - 0:23:15] ▶
But it's not perfect.
[0:23:15 - 0:23:18] ▶
So and everyone thought I was going to be a doctor.
[0:23:18 - 0:23:22] ▶
That was just the going and assumption.
[0:23:22 - 0:23:24] ▶
So I went off to college with my girlfriend from high school and we went to the same place.
[0:23:24 - 0:23:29] ▶
That was how I chose where to go, was where she was going.
[0:23:29 - 0:23:32] ▶
And so I picked her up.
[0:23:32 - 0:23:34] ▶
First month at school, I picked her up on a Friday to drive us home for the weekend.
[0:23:35 - 0:23:42] ▶
And it was two and a half hour drive.
[0:23:42 - 0:23:44] ▶
And about two and a half hours into it, suddenly we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere.
[0:23:44 - 0:23:51] ▶
Didn't know where we were.
[0:23:51 - 0:23:52] ▶
Didn't know how we got there.
[0:23:52 - 0:23:54] ▶
And eventually, looking at our watch, we figured out that somehow we had been asleep for
[0:23:54 - 0:24:00] ▶
So this was a classic example of missing time.
[0:24:02 - 0:24:07] ▶
I had no idea what to call it.
[0:24:07 - 0:24:09] ▶
I had no idea what happened.
[0:24:09 - 0:24:10] ▶
I just knew her mother was going to be upset.
[0:24:10 - 0:24:13] ▶
So I quickly got her home and apologized to her mother saying we were talking so much.
[0:24:13 - 0:24:19] ▶
I took a wrong turn and but we're here now and I apologize.
[0:24:19 - 0:24:22] ▶
Have you gotten a hypnotic regression?
[0:24:22 - 0:24:24] ▶
I have, but not the kind you're talking about.
[0:24:25 - 0:24:28] ▶
But a month later, I left that college, stopped wanting to be a doctor.
[0:24:30 - 0:24:36] ▶
I became a mathematician and an engineer and went to a technical school.
[0:24:36 - 0:24:42] ▶
And that takes my whole life, whatever that experience was.
[0:24:42 - 0:24:45] ▶
It's just, I don't, I can't explain it.
[0:24:46 - 0:24:48] ▶
I don't have a reason for it.
[0:24:48 - 0:24:51] ▶
I'm just telling you the outcome because I don't know what actually happened during that
[0:24:51 - 0:24:55] ▶
I don't know what extent you can talk about it.
[0:24:56 - 0:24:58] ▶
What was your government experience?
[0:24:58 - 0:25:01] ▶
I did work for NSA and the CIA and NRO, et cetera, for depending on what was needed for
[0:25:01 - 0:25:10] ▶
Mainly math and engineering.
[0:25:12 - 0:25:13] ▶
Math and engineering and occasionally lots of computer science and embedded programming
[0:25:13 - 0:25:20] ▶
to do things they needed doing.
[0:25:20 - 0:25:22] ▶
But it was always, I had developed something that they needed.
[0:25:22 - 0:25:27] ▶
And the need would arise and they would ask me to implement it and put it in the field.
[0:25:27 - 0:25:32] ▶
Did you ever run into UFO stuff there?
[0:25:32 - 0:25:35] ▶
Later, when I decided to leave that, doing that work every day and become a member, a
[0:25:38 - 0:25:45] ▶
member, a founding member of the Hume Center for National Security and Technology,
[0:25:45 - 0:25:50] ▶
a Virginia Tech, rumors began to run around.
[0:25:50 - 0:25:55] ▶
And I was still well connected all through the community.
[0:25:55 - 0:25:58] ▶
And people told me about this UFO stuff being cloded around and I saw some other pictures,
[0:25:58 - 0:26:05] ▶
some that have not come out in the open.
[0:26:05 - 0:26:07] ▶
Yeah, some that have not been shown.
[0:26:08 - 0:26:10] ▶
Then some of them are like wild.
[0:26:10 - 0:26:12] ▶
Yeah, I don't want to get anybody to trouble, so I just don't tell any details other than
[0:26:13 - 0:26:17] ▶
The one is a massive triangle above the water.
[0:26:19 - 0:26:22] ▶
I mean, the thing is heat.
[0:26:22 - 0:26:24] ▶
So, can we get in touch with the person with the photo and try to?
[0:26:24 - 0:26:29] ▶
I don't know that we can.
[0:26:29 - 0:26:31] ▶
Did you ever interface with the Office of Scientific Intelligence or with the Office
[0:26:31 - 0:26:38] ▶
A director of the Office of Global Access was a member of the Advisory Board for the Hume
[0:26:40 - 0:26:46] ▶
Center and later has done consulting with and advises Hawkeye 360, which is a company
[0:26:46 - 0:26:55] ▶
Wow, that's amazing.
[0:26:56 - 0:26:58] ▶
I mean, Hawkeye, because they'll give you one example.
[0:26:59 - 0:27:02] ▶
Hawkeye has on its Advisory Board Tishlong, which was the first female head of a three-letter
[0:27:02 - 0:27:08] ▶
She was a director of the NGA.
[0:27:09 - 0:27:12] ▶
Hawkeye's big contracts are with NRO and NGA.
[0:27:13 - 0:27:16] ▶
Can you explain what Hawkeye 360 does?
[0:27:16 - 0:27:19] ▶
So, Hawkeye is a geospatial sensor.
[0:27:20 - 0:27:26] ▶
What do I mean by that?
[0:27:26 - 0:27:28] ▶
One of the inputs to geospatial intelligence is somebody is transmitting a signal on the
[0:27:28 - 0:27:34] ▶
After you figure out where it is, can you tell us about it?
[0:27:37 - 0:27:41] ▶
So Hawkeye developed satellite sensors and got them lost first on SpaceX and now on
[0:27:41 - 0:27:49] ▶
Rocket Labs regularly from Wallops and they orbit the earth and using the received signal
[0:27:49 - 0:28:00] ▶
and motion and time difference of arrival and multiple sensors does some math using highly
[0:28:00 - 0:28:09] ▶
accurate clocks and the position of the satellites over the earth and other things to derive
[0:28:09 - 0:28:15] ▶
the location on the earth as they pass over.
[0:28:15 - 0:28:18] ▶
So, the intelligence is, here's a signal, it's located right there and now we can look
[0:28:18 - 0:28:25] ▶
at the externals and say we think it's this and that's handed off to the intelligence
[0:28:25 - 0:28:29] ▶
We don't know why they want it because they give us a tasking and the equipment does it
[0:28:30 - 0:28:35] ▶
Since a multi-sensory analysis.
[0:28:36 - 0:28:38] ▶
So a multi-sensory analysis of where are things transmitting from on the ground and that
[0:28:38 - 0:28:43] ▶
is a very valuable input to intelligence.
[0:28:43 - 0:28:47] ▶
Can only imagine you founded that company.
[0:28:47 - 0:28:49] ▶
And my name are on the patents that make it work.
[0:28:50 - 0:28:53] ▶
That's the hosted payload on the vehicles that it goes on.
[0:28:54 - 0:28:56] ▶
It's just a software backup.
[0:28:57 - 0:28:58] ▶
It's a, it's, we build the satellites.
[0:28:59 - 0:29:01] ▶
And what's in it are things we developed at Hawkeye 360.
[0:29:04 - 0:29:08] ▶
Now, the way I did Hawkeye 360 is I didn't want to give up my day job and go work at 105
[0:29:08 - 0:29:16] ▶
So the deal we worked out with the VCs is we got a small percentage of stock and we helped
[0:29:18 - 0:29:25] ▶
them develop the ideas and to help them get the patents, help them defend the patent
[0:29:25 - 0:29:30] ▶
process, which we did successfully, help them hire talent that we knew from all of our
[0:29:30 - 0:29:36] ▶
experience and from our teaching and other things.
[0:29:36 - 0:29:39] ▶
So they got young talent and senior talent brought it in and they took the company after
[0:29:39 - 0:29:45] ▶
I ended my year and a half of consulting.
[0:29:45 - 0:29:48] ▶
So I became a stockholder after that.
[0:29:48 - 0:29:50] ▶
I never was involved in the day-to-day operations because I didn't want to be.
[0:29:50 - 0:29:55] ▶
And have you guys ever detected UFOs?
[0:29:55 - 0:29:57] ▶
I don't know whether we have or not, but as I told you earlier, I went to SCU in 2022
[0:29:57 - 0:30:07] ▶
in Huntsville, the SCU meeting.
[0:30:07 - 0:30:09] ▶
What is SCU standing for?
[0:30:09 - 0:30:11] ▶
It's the Society for Studying UAP, Phenoma Scientifically, and Scientific Coalition for
[0:30:11 - 0:30:17] ▶
And the leadership is in Huntsville and other places, but the regular meetings have been,
[0:30:19 - 0:30:25] ▶
the in-person meetings have been held in Huntsville near Marshall Space Flight Center, etc.
[0:30:25 - 0:30:31] ▶
So I went there in 2022 and people associated with Space Force from three-letter agencies
[0:30:31 - 0:30:42] ▶
came off to me and talked to me about applying Hawkeye abilities to just looking for a UAP
[0:30:42 - 0:30:50] ▶
signal on the ground.
[0:30:50 - 0:30:52] ▶
By then, I had given up my security clearance so I couldn't help them directly, so I pointed
[0:30:52 - 0:30:58] ▶
them to the right people inside of Hawkeye 360 that could help them.
[0:30:58 - 0:31:02] ▶
I don't know what they did because I'm not pretty to it.
[0:31:02 - 0:31:05] ▶
How would you guess you might detect UAP?
[0:31:05 - 0:31:09] ▶
So let's suppose that the government knows that UAPs are emitting a certain transmitted
[0:31:10 - 0:31:20] ▶
frequency and they get some inkling that the thing is over there somewhere.
[0:31:20 - 0:31:27] ▶
Hawkeye will figure out by looking for that frequency exactly where they are.
[0:31:27 - 0:31:32] ▶
Like hypothetically, 1.6 gigahertz.
[0:31:32 - 0:31:35] ▶
1.6 gigahertz at interesting places I am certain has been looked at by Hawkeye 360.
[0:31:35 - 0:31:43] ▶
But you're getting interesting.
[0:31:44 - 0:31:46] ▶
But I don't know if we're fat because I'm not on the inside anymore.
[0:31:46 - 0:31:49] ▶
Did you ever interface with any kind of centers that work on atomic stuff or you know, like
[0:31:50 - 0:31:56] ▶
I worked at Sandy and National Labs for a 1976 into 1977.
[0:31:57 - 0:32:03] ▶
After I got done with my initial mathematics degree, it was fun.
[0:32:03 - 0:32:09] ▶
But it became quickly clear, especially in the 70s.
[0:32:10 - 0:32:14] ▶
If you wanted respect and to be a leader, you had to have a PhD.
[0:32:14 - 0:32:19] ▶
So I left there and went and got my PhD in applied mathematics from Brown University.
[0:32:19 - 0:32:25] ▶
What was your PhD thesis?
[0:32:25 - 0:32:27] ▶
Nonlinear filtering and how to solve the nonlinear filtering problem by using approximations
[0:32:27 - 0:32:37] ▶
and perturbation theory to get nearby things to linear.
[0:32:37 - 0:32:42] ▶
So you can use linear but then you can perturb it and get nonlinear looks at it.
[0:32:42 - 0:32:46] ▶
So it allows you to figure out something about the nonlinear behavior.
[0:32:46 - 0:32:52] ▶
It's the same thing.
[0:32:52 - 0:32:53] ▶
It's the same thing.
[0:32:54 - 0:32:55] ▶
It's the same thing.
[0:32:55 - 0:32:56] ▶
Except it's dynamical systems where this might be a rocket emitting a signal for UFO emitting
[0:32:56 - 0:33:02] ▶
And you're trying to track ends.
[0:33:03 - 0:33:04] ▶
Or you're trying to demodulate a signal.
[0:33:04 - 0:33:06] ▶
I'll give you an example.
[0:33:06 - 0:33:08] ▶
This is a great, the first application I ever did.
[0:33:08 - 0:33:13] ▶
A person that was very highly placed at the Jet Propulsion Laboratories figured out
[0:33:13 - 0:33:20] ▶
what I had done for my PhD thesis.
[0:33:20 - 0:33:23] ▶
So he asked permission if I could be allowed to work on the computers that we had at the
[0:33:23 - 0:33:33] ▶
Institute, which were provided to us by the intelligence community, to work on that
[0:33:33 - 0:33:39] ▶
And the signal was the Russians and the French sent a probe to Halle's comet.
[0:33:41 - 0:33:51] ▶
The probe on its way did a gravitational assist fly by a Venus.
[0:33:51 - 0:33:56] ▶
While it was near Venus, it dropped two balloon probes into the atmosphere of Venus.
[0:33:56 - 0:34:03] ▶
Now the Soviets did a great job with that, but they made an assumption which turned out
[0:34:03 - 0:34:09] ▶
They assumed how fast the temperature in the atmosphere would be conducted inside to
[0:34:11 - 0:34:20] ▶
where the thermometer was, because what it does is if it got too hot, it figured it was
[0:34:20 - 0:34:24] ▶
So it increased the helium in the balloon to lift it up.
[0:34:25 - 0:34:29] ▶
So the probes did this in the atmosphere until the batteries ran out.
[0:34:29 - 0:34:34] ▶
But the first entry it went too deep.
[0:34:34 - 0:34:38] ▶
And the temperature got really high and the winds were really rough.
[0:34:38 - 0:34:43] ▶
And so the signal was distorted by Doppler and other things.
[0:34:43 - 0:34:48] ▶
But even though tracking a signal is a nonlinear process, people had linear capabilities.
[0:34:48 - 0:34:56] ▶
My process does nonlinear things.
[0:34:56 - 0:34:58] ▶
So I coated it up on the supercomputer.
[0:34:58 - 0:35:01] ▶
We demodulated the signal and they got transmissions back from Venus that showed us the data.
[0:35:01 - 0:35:09] ▶
So we knew we had gotten it right.
[0:35:09 - 0:35:12] ▶
And we literally took a piece of paper and wrote down the zeros and ones on a piece of
[0:35:12 - 0:35:23] ▶
paper, flew it out to geoget propulsion laboratories.
[0:35:23 - 0:35:28] ▶
They took the paper from us, walked it into another room and gave it to the Soviet
[0:35:28 - 0:35:33] ▶
And because it was interesting data from Venus and how do I know it was interesting.
[0:35:35 - 0:35:40] ▶
So a few years later I was called and told to come down to the chief scientists office
[0:35:40 - 0:35:47] ▶
And I went down there and they told me it was about tech transfer.
[0:35:48 - 0:35:50] ▶
This is during the Clinton era when technology transfer was mandated by executive order.
[0:35:50 - 0:35:58] ▶
If it was no longer critical to the nation's security to keep it secret.
[0:35:58 - 0:36:02] ▶
So this technique I'm telling you about was a thing they wanted me to come and talk about.
[0:36:02 - 0:36:07] ▶
And I didn't understand why, but I went down.
[0:36:07 - 0:36:11] ▶
I walked into the room and I knew why.
[0:36:11 - 0:36:14] ▶
Because in the room was maybe the most famous, the news, the planet scientists that ever
[0:36:14 - 0:36:22] ▶
And he said that once this story would tell you billions and billions of people would
[0:36:24 - 0:36:31] ▶
think it was a great thing the NSA had done it.
[0:36:31 - 0:36:34] ▶
Carl Sagan was sitting in the room.
[0:36:34 - 0:36:36] ▶
The NSA was sitting in the office.
[0:36:37 - 0:36:40] ▶
So what did they figure out?
[0:36:40 - 0:36:43] ▶
They figured out that the transmissions that they got gave them details on the clouds that
[0:36:43 - 0:36:53] ▶
were in the atmosphere that they never thought they were going to get because they never intended
[0:36:53 - 0:36:59] ▶
So the data frames coming back were telling them the data collected by the scientific
[0:37:00 - 0:37:05] ▶
Fisher-Mason board and Sagan learned how it happened and how it was done and who did
[0:37:05 - 0:37:11] ▶
what in that meeting?
[0:37:11 - 0:37:13] ▶
So it's clear that Sagan was somehow like super deep.
[0:37:14 - 0:37:17] ▶
I only thought he was deep on the inside.
[0:37:17 - 0:37:19] ▶
Because he would come up to, I don't mind till he's passed.
[0:37:19 - 0:37:21] ▶
He had a contractor green vads with a picture on it.
[0:37:23 - 0:37:27] ▶
You don't get that if you're casual.
[0:37:27 - 0:37:31] ▶
He did not have a casual relationship.
[0:37:31 - 0:37:32] ▶
I think he was into.
[0:37:32 - 0:37:34] ▶
He had to have that badge.
[0:37:34 - 0:37:37] ▶
He was a consultant.
[0:37:37 - 0:37:38] ▶
Well, he had a top secret clearance for sure in the, I believe early 70s, late 60s because
[0:37:38 - 0:37:47] ▶
he was, you know, maybe a little before that, but he was working with the Air Force and
[0:37:47 - 0:37:54] ▶
it was a project called A-1-1-9 and they were considering nuking the moon as a show
[0:37:54 - 0:37:58] ▶
of force and insesovians.
[0:37:58 - 0:38:00] ▶
He was like the main consultant on that.
[0:38:00 - 0:38:02] ▶
And it was interesting too.
[0:38:02 - 0:38:03] ▶
He grew up very interested in UFOs.
[0:38:03 - 0:38:05] ▶
He would write about his diaries.
[0:38:05 - 0:38:07] ▶
He would debate his mentor and astronomer.
[0:38:07 - 0:38:09] ▶
He would constantly say, you know, I think this needs more credence and people we should
[0:38:09 - 0:38:13] ▶
And then boom, he just flips into being this dogmatic anti-USO.
[0:38:15 - 0:38:18] ▶
I believe, I believe without knowing it's a fact.
[0:38:18 - 0:38:22] ▶
He bumped up against the program and was told he needed a change as to.
[0:38:24 - 0:38:28] ▶
But then he had a contractor badge for the national security agency.
[0:38:29 - 0:38:34] ▶
He also goes on to, you know, write contact in Pell, Blue Dot.
[0:38:34 - 0:38:38] ▶
And if you watch contact that, you know, in your into UFOs, it's very discloser through
[0:38:38 - 0:38:46] ▶
fiction in a way that's palatable for people.
[0:38:46 - 0:38:52] ▶
And then if you think about the book, The Demon Haunted World, which ironically is sort
[0:38:52 - 0:38:56] ▶
of, I think it has a blurb by like, you know, Richard Dawkins or something.
[0:38:56 - 0:38:59] ▶
And, you know, the demons are supposed to be like, you know, fundamentalists or like overly
[0:38:59 - 0:39:05] ▶
zealous thoughts that humans have.
[0:39:05 - 0:39:07] ▶
But in fact, just, you take the demon haunted world as this sort of like double-entandra and
[0:39:07 - 0:39:13] ▶
maybe that represents Sagan's world view a lot more.
[0:39:13 - 0:39:15] ▶
And he just believes in the UFO thing.
[0:39:15 - 0:39:17] ▶
I don't have direct knowledge, but kind of nothing else makes sense.
[0:39:18 - 0:39:24] ▶
So you're probably, you know, talking with Jack earlier.
[0:39:24 - 0:39:28] ▶
And one of the reasons we were so excited to have you on is that you're probably one of
[0:39:28 - 0:39:32] ▶
the deepest people when it comes to really trying to discover kind of ontological truths
[0:39:32 - 0:39:37] ▶
in the UFO question.
[0:39:37 - 0:39:39] ▶
And so, yeah, do you have a working theory as to how these UFOs fly, where they're from,
[0:39:39 - 0:39:45] ▶
So I'm into the physics and I'm pursuing the physics.
[0:39:46 - 0:39:51] ▶
But I did not in physics all my life as my, uh, avocation.
[0:39:51 - 0:39:58] ▶
So I am relearning physics, consuming it rapidly, learning from people who tweaked my
[0:39:58 - 0:40:07] ▶
interest like Eric Weinstein and, uh, the people that were working at Wolfram, et cetera.
[0:40:07 - 0:40:15] ▶
And uh, Pis and Sarfati and all these, but they have one thing in common.
[0:40:15 - 0:40:23] ▶
Every single one of them is trying to figure out some manipulation of the stress energy
[0:40:23 - 0:40:32] ▶
tensor in Einstein's field equations that when you fiddle this over here, that goes
[0:40:32 - 0:40:39] ▶
into the machinery that goes on this side of the equation and you get manipulation of
[0:40:39 - 0:40:43] ▶
All of them are doing that.
[0:40:45 - 0:40:47] ▶
It's all, that's what they're doing.
[0:40:49 - 0:40:51] ▶
So the question is, how do you manipulate that?
[0:40:51 - 0:40:53] ▶
That's a good question.
[0:40:53 - 0:40:54] ▶
That's a good question.
[0:40:54 - 0:40:55] ▶
Because can I just set it up for the audience?
[0:40:55 - 0:40:56] ▶
It's prosaically understood, even in conventional physics, that the stress energy tensor
[0:40:57 - 0:41:02] ▶
in Einstein's field equations, which govern, you know, general relativity, should theoretically
[0:41:02 - 0:41:08] ▶
affect gravity, but you need, uh, you know, energy so high that we just can't produce
[0:41:08 - 0:41:14] ▶
in like, you know, normal, prosaic means or whatever, with through electromagnetism or
[0:41:14 - 0:41:19] ▶
And so do you think that there's an engineering mechanism to amplify energy to that extent?
[0:41:20 - 0:41:26] ▶
Here, here is, here is circumstantial evidence that it's been done.
[0:41:26 - 0:41:32] ▶
Your recent interview was with Pis.
[0:41:32 - 0:41:35] ▶
I didn't believe a word he said for a year.
[0:41:36 - 0:41:38] ▶
This didn't believe it at all.
[0:41:38 - 0:41:40] ▶
So I haven't seen your interview, but I began to believe it when I figured out all my
[0:41:40 - 0:41:44] ▶
own that all of these people were working on the same stuff.
[0:41:44 - 0:41:48] ▶
I'm in the private email exchange at Jacks or Foddy Conduts while he's doing his work
[0:41:48 - 0:41:53] ▶
And he keeps insisting that there's a low power version of manipulating the stress energy
[0:41:54 - 0:42:01] ▶
tensor that will give you the necessary things on the output of the equation.
[0:42:01 - 0:42:06] ▶
This, his idea is manipulating the speed of light so that it's much slower and so it's
[0:42:06 - 0:42:13] ▶
more easily attainable than other things.
[0:42:13 - 0:42:15] ▶
So, so that, so here's what I think is going on.
[0:42:15 - 0:42:20] ▶
Pis says that if you can manipulate the quantum vacuum, you can trap it between two metal
[0:42:20 - 0:42:29] ▶
plates and get some energy out or put a huge electromagnetic field in a tiny, tiny place
[0:42:29 - 0:42:36] ▶
so that it's a huge gradient.
[0:42:36 - 0:42:38] ▶
And the universe is constantly, constantly creating out of magical, magical mathematics and
[0:42:38 - 0:42:47] ▶
the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, virtual particles.
[0:42:47 - 0:42:51] ▶
So you care about can I take, can I take that vacuum with its particles and do anything
[0:42:51 - 0:42:58] ▶
Pis has said, I can subject the vacuum to tremendous electromagnetic fields.
[0:43:00 - 0:43:07] ▶
And in so doing, take virtual particles, pull them out and make them real particles and
[0:43:07 - 0:43:14] ▶
create exotic matter that will now be useful to to bend space and time.
[0:43:14 - 0:43:21] ▶
So you can take his little piece of magic back here, which is using electromagnetism.
[0:43:21 - 0:43:29] ▶
And make a warp drive out of it.
[0:43:29 - 0:43:32] ▶
Now, what Pis does not do in his patents?
[0:43:32 - 0:43:37] ▶
So we're now, we're trying to do inference under the assumption that the patents are real
[0:43:37 - 0:43:42] ▶
That what's been done is figured out something about manipulating of the, manipulation of
[0:43:44 - 0:43:51] ▶
the vacuum that we don't know a lot about yet.
[0:43:51 - 0:43:55] ▶
But Pis has handed it with the Navy's bulldozer.
[0:43:55 - 0:44:05] ▶
They ordered the patent office to have any ideas as to how you might engineer that sort
[0:44:05 - 0:44:10] ▶
So yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm going to guess because I don't know.
[0:44:11 - 0:44:15] ▶
I don't know, but I'm going to guess.
[0:44:15 - 0:44:17] ▶
They gave him some crash material and he figured out how to write down the equations for
[0:44:17 - 0:44:23] ▶
I'm going to guess because there are three patents that are all really compelling on their
[0:44:25 - 0:44:28] ▶
own, but they don't work on it.
[0:44:28 - 0:44:31] ▶
You go them together.
[0:44:31 - 0:44:32] ▶
They need each other.
[0:44:32 - 0:44:33] ▶
They need each other.
[0:44:33 - 0:44:34] ▶
This piece, this produces the input.
[0:44:34 - 0:44:37] ▶
This takes the input and does something with it.
[0:44:37 - 0:44:39] ▶
You need all of that for it to work.
[0:44:39 - 0:44:41] ▶
The only thing that makes sense to me is the Navy wanted it worked on.
[0:44:41 - 0:44:47] ▶
They cook it into a lab where Pis worked and he figured out how to make it work.
[0:44:47 - 0:44:52] ▶
And why would the Navy care?
[0:44:52 - 0:44:54] ▶
I tell you why the Navy would care.
[0:44:54 - 0:44:57] ▶
I'll tell you exactly why because the Chinese care and the Navy is the military entity that
[0:44:57 - 0:45:04] ▶
will take on the Chinese if they started acting ugly over Taiwan, etc.
[0:45:04 - 0:45:10] ▶
They want an advantage over the Chinese PLA, People's Liberation Army, and we know for
[0:45:10 - 0:45:17] ▶
a fact they are working on reverse engineering.
[0:45:17 - 0:45:21] ▶
They have downcraft.
[0:45:21 - 0:45:22] ▶
What's your smoking gun that the Chinese have a program?
[0:45:24 - 0:45:26] ▶
This is always something that you hear and I've heard it from a lot of very credible people,
[0:45:26 - 0:45:32] ▶
but I don't hear a lot of first principles.
[0:45:32 - 0:45:35] ▶
This is where there is a ton of evidence all over the place that they are inundated by
[0:45:35 - 0:45:42] ▶
UAPs that shutting down hair for us and people are putting it up on telegram.
[0:45:42 - 0:45:47] ▶
And I guarantee you that Chinese are shooting stuff down.
[0:45:48 - 0:45:52] ▶
The Chinese famously, of course, appropriate IP from other developed countries, particularly
[0:45:52 - 0:45:56] ▶
in aerospace and defense.
[0:45:56 - 0:45:58] ▶
What's your sense of whether they got their first start by siphoning off of our program
[0:45:58 - 0:46:03] ▶
versus their own crash or two?
[0:46:03 - 0:46:08] ▶
My opinion is that in order to prevent accidental intercontinental ballistic missile exchange,
[0:46:08 - 0:46:18] ▶
we revealed some things to both the former Soviet Union and China.
[0:46:18 - 0:46:24] ▶
And you can see that we did this in the Nixon-Breshness treaty.
[0:46:24 - 0:46:30] ▶
It's written to red phone.
[0:46:32 - 0:46:35] ▶
Red phone was invented to stop UFOs from starting Dermon Nuclear War.
[0:46:35 - 0:46:42] ▶
Yeah, it's Chris Wilde, it's just hidden in plain sight.
[0:46:42 - 0:46:45] ▶
Literally, in the 1971 Salt Tox, it's like we want to make sure that the Soviets don't
[0:46:45 - 0:46:52] ▶
mistake these unknowns in their aerospace for acts of American aggression and it would
[0:46:52 - 0:46:58] ▶
be a huge part of data.
[0:46:58 - 0:46:59] ▶
And it's literally written in a picture.
[0:46:59 - 0:47:01] ▶
Yeah, so we don't have a treaty with China, but to think we would not want the same protections
[0:47:01 - 0:47:07] ▶
And we know for a fact because of the balloon causing a disruption that we have a red phone
[0:47:09 - 0:47:16] ▶
to China because the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,
[0:47:16 - 0:47:22] ▶
Millie, said that they pick up the phone, they call their equivalence to the People's
[0:47:22 - 0:47:26] ▶
And that's what the red phone was for from the beginning to stop mistakes from being
[0:47:28 - 0:47:32] ▶
made, deconfliction line.
[0:47:32 - 0:47:34] ▶
We have deconfliction lines.
[0:47:36 - 0:47:37] ▶
We've even seen deconfliction lines work in current events.
[0:47:37 - 0:47:42] ▶
So the Russians through their proxies, proxies militias, attacked a bunch of Americans in
[0:47:42 - 0:47:51] ▶
Syria and we called them on the deconfliction line.
[0:47:51 - 0:47:55] ▶
Of course, they denied their existence or have anything to do with them.
[0:47:55 - 0:47:59] ▶
So they fired some stuff that our Marines and other people that were with them.
[0:47:59 - 0:48:03] ▶
And we called in the Armada.
[0:48:03 - 0:48:05] ▶
And we wasted all of them in hellfire for about 15 minutes until there was nothing left.
[0:48:05 - 0:48:13] ▶
So we know that deconfliction still exists and we've seen America act on things, but only
[0:48:13 - 0:48:20] ▶
after deconfliction is done.
[0:48:20 - 0:48:22] ▶
Meaning if their people are being attacked and they go through the process of deconfliction
[0:48:23 - 0:48:28] ▶
before they will defend their people, you know it has to exist for protection.
[0:48:28 - 0:48:35] ▶
So August, inadvertent insanity.
[0:48:35 - 0:48:38] ▶
It's still just this crazy black box as with all Chinese politics as to how much progress
[0:48:38 - 0:48:42] ▶
they've made, whether or not.
[0:48:42 - 0:48:44] ▶
You know, well, the first thing you know is the government of the United States will constantly
[0:48:44 - 0:48:51] ▶
work to gain access through any means to human technical, whatever, all what it is the
[0:48:51 - 0:48:58] ▶
So let's suppose we get an inkling for a leak or a we get a break and we get some kind
[0:48:59 - 0:49:07] ▶
of intelligence that says they're doing this over here.
[0:49:07 - 0:49:11] ▶
And so this can only be this.
[0:49:11 - 0:49:13] ▶
And they inadvertently display a saucer to our overhead satellite systems.
[0:49:13 - 0:49:20] ▶
I would just people make mistakes.
[0:49:20 - 0:49:22] ▶
But number one source of intelligence is human fallibility.
[0:49:23 - 0:49:27] ▶
These are out number one source.
[0:49:29 - 0:49:30] ▶
99% of intelligence is open source or human fallibility.
[0:49:30 - 0:49:35] ▶
It's a really crazy sort of topic.
[0:49:35 - 0:49:37] ▶
You have all these figures pop up also when it comes to kind of you know, secret science
[0:49:37 - 0:49:41] ▶
that Jack and I have spoken about.
[0:49:41 - 0:49:43] ▶
So you have towns and brown, Tesla, Ningly, Eugene, Polklettinoff.
[0:49:43 - 0:49:50] ▶
You know, I can name a ton of these people Miguel Alcubiere.
[0:49:50 - 0:49:53] ▶
Do you think once you take the governor so to speak off of physics, you end up with
[0:49:53 - 0:49:59] ▶
kind of like a plethora of like really exciting warp drive faster than light, you know,
[0:49:59 - 0:50:04] ▶
I think there will be a ton of work done.
[0:50:05 - 0:50:07] ▶
But I think the way I think the government wants to protect both the people, their reputations
[0:50:08 - 0:50:16] ▶
and the institutions that have done things and that they don't want now.
[0:50:16 - 0:50:22] ▶
Some would harm the institutions and the people if it were to become known.
[0:50:22 - 0:50:27] ▶
So the thing I would expect the government to do is as cold disclosure gets going and
[0:50:27 - 0:50:33] ▶
we learn that anti-gravity and propulsion, propulsion are being worked on that suddenly
[0:50:33 - 0:50:38] ▶
some people will be allowed to do it without being stomped on in corporate meat, corporate
[0:50:38 - 0:50:45] ▶
starve that have whatever.
[0:50:45 - 0:50:46] ▶
That has to be the case because assuming that Russia in China have this stuff, if the
[0:50:46 - 0:50:51] ▶
average talented STEM student in America isn't aware of any of these frameworks, then we're
[0:50:51 - 0:50:56] ▶
at a massive disadvantage.
[0:50:56 - 0:50:58] ▶
Yeah, so let's close off what we've started before.
[0:50:58 - 0:51:00] ▶
I want to finish the thought.
[0:51:00 - 0:51:02] ▶
The Navy would have pies do it if they wanted exotic propulsion so they'd have a massive
[0:51:02 - 0:51:09] ▶
advantage over the Chinese because they are going to be fighting in the Chinese pond
[0:51:09 - 0:51:14] ▶
with their Navy and the Chinese are going to throw everything they can at the Navy.
[0:51:14 - 0:51:19] ▶
Yeah, or the pies they want.
[0:51:19 - 0:51:20] ▶
And they wanted it right?
[0:51:20 - 0:51:21] ▶
Or it's like a limited hangout.
[0:51:21 - 0:51:22] ▶
Or it's like we're going to give you the cicada thing or it's like we're going to give
[0:51:22 - 0:51:26] ▶
you a little bit of info.
[0:51:26 - 0:51:28] ▶
If you're smart enough, you can figure out the info and then you get initiated into the
[0:51:28 - 0:51:32] ▶
And I think that's probably what's going on here because I've become this amateur historian
[0:51:34 - 0:51:39] ▶
He went to Hymen Ricover who was head of the nuclear Navy, I think in the late 50s, early
[0:51:40 - 0:51:44] ▶
And he was like, look, I'm working on this.
[0:51:45 - 0:51:47] ▶
I'm getting all these crazy gravitational effects.
[0:51:47 - 0:51:49] ▶
And tons of brown had been in Navy Seaman actually decades earlier.
[0:51:49 - 0:51:54] ▶
And Hymen Ricover goes, oh, don't waste your time.
[0:51:54 - 0:51:57] ▶
We're already on it.
[0:51:57 - 0:51:58] ▶
We know all about this.
[0:51:58 - 0:52:00] ▶
And so it's pretty clear.
[0:52:00 - 0:52:02] ▶
And I'm in touch with some Navy special warfare guys as well.
[0:52:02 - 0:52:06] ▶
And I think the Navy knows a lot about this stuff.
[0:52:06 - 0:52:08] ▶
I think they're very on top of it.
[0:52:08 - 0:52:10] ▶
So it's like how would you let the cat out of the bag without tipping your hat off to
[0:52:10 - 0:52:16] ▶
How would you let certain STEM students who are qualified in America know?
[0:52:17 - 0:52:22] ▶
And you might come out with these three disparate patents that you can piece together if you're
[0:52:22 - 0:52:26] ▶
I think that the changing milieu for educational institutions and what people choose to go
[0:52:27 - 0:52:37] ▶
into has been changed dramatically by a modern society.
[0:52:37 - 0:52:42] ▶
People don't go into those fields and sufficient numbers for us to get the talent we need to
[0:52:42 - 0:52:49] ▶
do this in a major way given that it costs so much to go to the university that people
[0:52:49 - 0:52:56] ▶
want to have a high income job when they get out so they can pay back their loans quickly.
[0:52:56 - 0:53:03] ▶
It's just the system is biasing people away from doing what's necessary to make a big
[0:53:03 - 0:53:10] ▶
We built the modern world because our university system was the best there is and we've
[0:53:13 - 0:53:18] ▶
hobbled it by making people go on debt.
[0:53:18 - 0:53:21] ▶
Yeah, it's horrible.
[0:53:21 - 0:53:23] ▶
It feels like we're living in late-stage decadent capitalism or something where the smartest
[0:53:23 - 0:53:28] ▶
people are working on the dumbest things.
[0:53:28 - 0:53:30] ▶
The very best mathematicians are going to get in finance.
[0:53:30 - 0:53:32] ▶
Yeah, serving and wanting.
[0:53:32 - 0:53:35] ▶
And I know all these young people out here who are, they're awesome, they're really smart
[0:53:35 - 0:53:38] ▶
and they're rationally playing casino games with crypto.
[0:53:38 - 0:53:42] ▶
They're like on Solana investing in meme coins and I don't blame them because that's the
[0:53:42 - 0:53:47] ▶
way you kind of, you know, lead fraud, everybody else.
[0:53:47 - 0:53:51] ▶
So you get the huge bomb.
[0:53:51 - 0:53:52] ▶
And meanwhile, like, you know, the world of atoms and engineering is completely stagnated
[0:53:52 - 0:53:58] ▶
over the last 50 years and that's as far as, you know, our national competitiveness, that's
[0:53:58 - 0:54:04] ▶
way more important than vector.
[0:54:04 - 0:54:05] ▶
So let's suppose I wanted to cover up gravity.
[0:54:05 - 0:54:10] ▶
So I did see all this unbelievable stuff that Wheeler got started, Darna down in North
[0:54:10 - 0:54:14] ▶
Carolina with two industrialists supporting him and all of these people came to Wheeler
[0:54:14 - 0:54:20] ▶
re-regionning gravitational research and his first speaker was Richard Feynman doing
[0:54:20 - 0:54:27] ▶
an approximate quantization for, of gravitational for as his talk.
[0:54:27 - 0:54:34] ▶
And it's a great model so long as it's not super high energy physics, super gravitational
[0:54:34 - 0:54:42] ▶
It simply works in the regime in which the approximation works.
[0:54:44 - 0:54:49] ▶
Feynman did that for Wheeler.
[0:54:49 - 0:54:51] ▶
And why would Feynman do that for Wheeler?
[0:54:51 - 0:54:54] ▶
Wheeler was Feynman's graduate advisor.
[0:54:54 - 0:54:57] ▶
He wrote his PhD thesis for Wheeler.
[0:54:57 - 0:54:59] ▶
Do you think both were associated with aerospace?
[0:54:59 - 0:55:02] ▶
Okay, so anyway, both all these aerospace people, for people who were working on gravitation
[0:55:04 - 0:55:09] ▶
etc would go to these conferences and interact including towns in brown and a blue, wet
[0:55:09 - 0:55:16] ▶
bee and a witton and those others and they got someplace it looks like and didn't.
[0:55:16 - 0:55:24] ▶
Just they went, they went dark.
[0:55:24 - 0:55:26] ▶
Louis Witton didn't do anything else in gravitation and key towns in brown went to work
[0:55:26 - 0:55:33] ▶
for the military industrial complex and never published another thing about his work.
[0:55:33 - 0:55:38] ▶
And somebody started grooming up string theory and the governments threw money at it.
[0:55:38 - 0:55:45] ▶
So money is what causes research to happen.
[0:55:45 - 0:55:49] ▶
Because it's publisher parish and you got to have money to do the research.
[0:55:50 - 0:55:55] ▶
How did the government throw money at it?
[0:55:55 - 0:55:56] ▶
National Science Foundation funding, Department of Defense Direct funding, DARPA funding,
[0:55:56 - 0:56:01] ▶
During theory itself is sort of a limited hangout for more real physics.
[0:56:02 - 0:56:05] ▶
No, I think string theory is they know it's wrong and it's aiming them away by co-bribing
[0:56:05 - 0:56:13] ▶
all the people and to doing what they have to do anyway which is do interesting work
[0:56:13 - 0:56:18] ▶
to get to get promotions.
[0:56:18 - 0:56:21] ▶
But why have a land?
[0:56:21 - 0:56:22] ▶
If you want to vital core national security program, why wouldn't you deflect?
[0:56:22 - 0:56:28] ▶
Why would you get all these secret topologists in a room in a black room?
[0:56:28 - 0:56:32] ▶
Backward in the basement of Lockheed somewhere or early in the way?
[0:56:32 - 0:56:34] ▶
Yeah, I think we had enough stuff.
[0:56:34 - 0:56:38] ▶
We've gotten from other things that we used it to recreate what could be done and we didn't
[0:56:38 - 0:56:44] ▶
care about all these stories about people working on any gravity stuff and getting stomped
[0:56:44 - 0:56:50] ▶
on and or their life ended.
[0:56:50 - 0:56:54] ▶
I just think there are too many of these things telling us they don't want people to go down
[0:56:54 - 0:57:00] ▶
They were going in the 1950s.
[0:57:01 - 0:57:03] ▶
Well, it's really fascinating history because the establishment of quantum gravity which
[0:57:03 - 0:57:08] ▶
led to string theory was in 1957 at the UNC North Carolina Chapel Hill Conference headed
[0:57:08 - 0:57:14] ▶
He had Lewis Whitten there from Martin Corporation, pre-Lockheed merger, you know, from their
[0:57:16 - 0:57:22] ▶
anti-gravity division, RIS.
[0:57:22 - 0:57:24] ▶
The whole thing is sponsored by right airfield.
[0:57:24 - 0:57:27] ▶
Then Agnew Bonson, simultaneous to doing this top theoretical physics conference is funding
[0:57:27 - 0:57:32] ▶
There's this question of Towns and Brown doing the vital stuff in the back room where they're
[0:57:33 - 0:57:38] ▶
doing the more theoretical work and maybe getting some things wrong or groping in the dark.
[0:57:38 - 0:57:44] ▶
The one thing that Eric Weinstein has pointed out about this conference which I find fascinating
[0:57:44 - 0:57:48] ▶
is who's an Austrian mathematician named Herman Bondi?
[0:57:48 - 0:57:51] ▶
Bondi asks this really interesting question about he goes, but what about, what if you
[0:57:53 - 0:57:57] ▶
removed the positivity conditions in Einstein's field equations?
[0:57:57 - 0:58:01] ▶
And don't you get all sorts of weird anomalous effects in physics that involve negative mass
[0:58:01 - 0:58:05] ▶
Which is all you need to manipulate the stress energy tensor so you can warp space-time.
[0:58:06 - 0:58:11] ▶
T-counting gets like laughed out of the room or marginalized or maybe he asked the wrong
[0:58:13 - 0:58:16] ▶
question that was a little too provocative for some of the sponsors of the conference.
[0:58:16 - 0:58:21] ▶
And then you end up with Alcubiary, this Mexican physicist, University of Mexico PhD, who
[0:58:21 - 0:58:31] ▶
solves Einstein's equations for faster than light travel.
[0:58:31 - 0:58:34] ▶
And then you get Sonny White who is a propulsion engineer at NASA who is working with negative
[0:58:34 - 0:58:41] ▶
energy, negative mass when it comes to faster than light travel.
[0:58:41 - 0:58:45] ▶
So you really have to ask the question, did it all start with these positivity conditions,
[0:58:45 - 0:58:50] ▶
the sort of governor that was placed on Einstein where if you take the governor off, you
[0:58:50 - 0:58:56] ▶
get all sorts of really anomalous interesting effects and maybe Townsend Brown was doing
[0:58:56 - 0:59:00] ▶
this in the back room.
[0:59:00 - 0:59:02] ▶
Here's what I, lots and lots of things in science are discovered serendipitously.
[0:59:02 - 0:59:11] ▶
And I think Townsend Brown and others accidentally excited the vacuum field and got weird stuff
[0:59:11 - 0:59:19] ▶
out of it and saw gravitational anomalies.
[0:59:19 - 0:59:22] ▶
Once you see that, you can't go back.
[0:59:22 - 0:59:28] ▶
Once I saw a UFO, I couldn't go back.
[0:59:28 - 0:59:30] ▶
Okay, so I believe these people saw and they were determined to spin their lives figuring
[0:59:31 - 0:59:38] ▶
Well, we talked about multiple tech trees in the physical phenomena, the non-physical
[0:59:39 - 0:59:43] ▶
What for you is like the most convincing evidence that there are multiple ways of doing
[0:59:44 - 0:59:50] ▶
this in the physical phenomena?
[0:59:50 - 0:59:51] ▶
Okay, so Alcubiair is one way, but that's not the only way.
[0:59:51 - 0:59:55] ▶
The other way is because of the amount of negative energy required, I believe in Sarfati
[0:59:55 - 1:00:04] ▶
is saying, no, no, no, no.
[1:00:04 - 1:00:07] ▶
You can do fast-food-alike travel with a battery and his work is totally different.
[1:00:07 - 1:00:12] ▶
It has another scalar field involved in his equations, as his modification to Einstein's
[1:00:15 - 1:00:22] ▶
I don't yet know of an experiment that says Sarfati is correct, except he's been on this
[1:00:23 - 1:00:29] ▶
problem for 50 years.
[1:00:29 - 1:00:31] ▶
When he first claimed he had a UFO or a non-human intelligence experience, he's been on it
[1:00:31 - 1:00:37] ▶
And he was one of the great young physicists out out in California that wound up being amongst
[1:00:38 - 1:00:47] ▶
the hippies that saved physics.
[1:00:47 - 1:00:50] ▶
He is one of those guys.
[1:00:50 - 1:00:52] ▶
And his career has been very non-traditional, but he was a student up at Cornell with some
[1:00:52 - 1:01:01] ▶
He had a terrific education and he is capable and he's irrascible and hard to get him to
[1:01:02 - 1:01:12] ▶
explain stuff for normal human beings to understand.
[1:01:12 - 1:01:16] ▶
But I posted an eight-hour interview with him and it was not enough time to get to the
[1:01:16 - 1:01:20] ▶
He doesn't like me very much.
[1:01:22 - 1:01:24] ▶
I don't know why, but...
[1:01:24 - 1:01:26] ▶
You're not a PhD scientist.
[1:01:26 - 1:01:28] ▶
That's what he said.
[1:01:28 - 1:01:29] ▶
You're not a physicist.
[1:01:29 - 1:01:30] ▶
I'm not saying that physics is a snob.
[1:01:30 - 1:01:33] ▶
Yeah, it was a matter of time.
[1:01:33 - 1:01:35] ▶
Jack is hard-nosed, scientific snob.
[1:01:35 - 1:01:38] ▶
But he also feels he's been treated badly by those who are in the main stream of physics.
[1:01:38 - 1:01:46] ▶
He has some uniquely incisive ideas.
[1:01:46 - 1:01:48] ▶
It's kind of, you know, he's over here on the very low-energy plong side of things with
[1:01:49 - 1:01:53] ▶
piezo over here on the very high-end of the swinger side of physics.
[1:01:53 - 1:01:57] ▶
And the swingers, who a lot of people don't realize that everybody knows that Feynman
[1:01:58 - 1:02:02] ▶
was involved in quantum electrodynamics.
[1:02:02 - 1:02:05] ▶
But swinger also won the Nobel Prize at the same time as Feynman and Tomanaga.
[1:02:05 - 1:02:12] ▶
And swingers version of quantum electrodynamics is being used by Pais in the implementation
[1:02:12 - 1:02:21] ▶
of a stress-energy-tensor manipulation to get the stuff we need to do engineer through
[1:02:21 - 1:02:27] ▶
the next step, next patent into warping of space time.
[1:02:27 - 1:02:31] ▶
Swinger is brilliant.
[1:02:31 - 1:02:33] ▶
He was as hard to understand as Sarfati is.
[1:02:34 - 1:02:37] ▶
Very hard to understand.
[1:02:37 - 1:02:40] ▶
And the thing that changed everything, plonger, Tomanaga, Feynman, and swinger, and all
[1:02:40 - 1:02:48] ▶
the rest of physics is Freeman Dyson existed.
[1:02:48 - 1:02:52] ▶
He got in a car with Feynman and they drove across the country.
[1:02:52 - 1:02:58] ▶
And so Feynman happened to be driving from Cleveland to Albuquerque and he offered to take
[1:02:58 - 1:03:05] ▶
me for a ride just to see the country.
[1:03:05 - 1:03:07] ▶
And he talked about physics, of course, a great deal.
[1:03:07 - 1:03:10] ▶
And there I argued with him a lot because I still had strong resistance to his way of
[1:03:10 - 1:03:16] ▶
And Feynman had an inspiration and rolled down on two pages.
[1:03:17 - 1:03:22] ▶
He was showing the equivalents of all three of their moms.
[1:03:22 - 1:03:26] ▶
And so quantum electrodynamics was born because Feynman would ride across the country with
[1:03:26 - 1:03:34] ▶
Freeman Dyson in his car.
[1:03:34 - 1:03:36] ▶
How do you think when you look at quantum electrodynamics, you know, you have energy in the quantum
[1:03:36 - 1:03:41] ▶
vacuum which is this fascinating concept.
[1:03:41 - 1:03:44] ▶
You have, you know, particles and antiparticles.
[1:03:44 - 1:03:49] ▶
And it's just so very kind of trippy, kind of ontologically, like, you know, when you
[1:03:49 - 1:03:54] ▶
learn a little bit more about it, do you think it comports it all with the UFO phenomena,
[1:03:54 - 1:03:59] ▶
quantum electrodynamics?
[1:03:59 - 1:04:00] ▶
Yes, because it's the application of quantum electrodynamics to the vacuum that is
[1:04:00 - 1:04:08] ▶
producing what's needed to make warp drive work.
[1:04:08 - 1:04:13] ▶
One of many different paths, but it's got to be something like that.
[1:04:13 - 1:04:19] ▶
Otherwise, it's magic that we don't even have the language to describe.
[1:04:19 - 1:04:24] ▶
Do you think Einstein-Cardin is relevant in this big picture?
[1:04:24 - 1:04:27] ▶
Yes, because I think...
[1:04:27 - 1:04:29] ▶
What is Einstein-Cardin?
[1:04:30 - 1:04:31] ▶
Yes, so about 15 years app general relativity, a French mathematician, he like, Cardin
[1:04:31 - 1:04:36] ▶
comes around and Einstein had had equated the torsional tensor.
[1:04:36 - 1:04:41] ▶
He said, the symmetric and free space were going to be nothing.
[1:04:41 - 1:04:43] ▶
And Cardin was like, we say, it's not zero in matter.
[1:04:44 - 1:04:46] ▶
You could have spin density fields that are substantial enough to add meaningful contributions.
[1:04:46 - 1:04:51] ▶
And so this was pursued by a number of different, there's Einstein-Cardin, Cardin, Evin's.
[1:04:51 - 1:04:58] ▶
It was like, deduphening leaves, associates, software, Vargas, software, tour were into
[1:04:58 - 1:05:02] ▶
And it allows you to get electromagnetic contributions to the spin density tensor, which then builds
[1:05:03 - 1:05:08] ▶
essentially like, you know, curvature-based gravitation, warp spacetime.
[1:05:08 - 1:05:12] ▶
But here's the bottom line.
[1:05:12 - 1:05:16] ▶
Cardin's modification is given fertilizer to the following field.
[1:05:18 - 1:05:23] ▶
I can put interesting materials in and around quantum electrodynamics.
[1:05:23 - 1:05:30] ▶
Things going on and I get gravitational effects out through this torsional tensor, which
[1:05:30 - 1:05:36] ▶
inside those materials does not zero out the way Einstein assumed it would because
[1:05:36 - 1:05:41] ▶
he was thinking of the vacuum.
[1:05:41 - 1:05:43] ▶
So topological insulators, which you're very deep on, these are these materials.
[1:05:43 - 1:05:46] ▶
There's a metamaterial involved.
[1:05:48 - 1:05:51] ▶
Topological insulators is the kind of thing where you've got to do some weird constitution
[1:05:51 - 1:05:57] ▶
So you get weird squeezings.
[1:05:58 - 1:06:03] ▶
So you trap the right vacuum particles at the right frequencies and you manipulate them
[1:06:03 - 1:06:08] ▶
But the material is what's doing the squeezing that allows the quantum back-in to give you
[1:06:09 - 1:06:16] ▶
something you can use.
[1:06:16 - 1:06:17] ▶
So you've got to have the material.
[1:06:17 - 1:06:19] ▶
Otherwise you don't have the torsion tensor being non-zero.
[1:06:19 - 1:06:22] ▶
So what's an example of the topological insulator then?
[1:06:22 - 1:06:25] ▶
One of these materials that seems to, you know, when you do weird quantum electrodynamics,
[1:06:25 - 1:06:30] ▶
hydrogen-G physics around them, they seem to exhibit anomalous.
[1:06:30 - 1:06:33] ▶
Let me tell you how you know a true scientist.
[1:06:33 - 1:06:36] ▶
I say, I don't know because I'm not a material scientist, but I'm going to ask this guy over
[1:06:36 - 1:06:42] ▶
and tell you how he is.
[1:06:42 - 1:06:44] ▶
Bismuth, Intimidity Telluride.
[1:06:44 - 1:06:47] ▶
This is what's so crazy is when you say Bismuth, I think of the magnesium bismuth parts that
[1:06:47 - 1:06:53] ▶
Gary Nolan has in his lab.
[1:06:53 - 1:06:55] ▶
And I think of the magnesium bismuth that Lewis Witten in front of across Lewis Witten
[1:06:55 - 1:07:00] ▶
is working at Martin Corporation's anti-gravity division.
[1:07:00 - 1:07:03] ▶
He says he was contracted by right airfield to work on gravity.
[1:07:03 - 1:07:07] ▶
And he said that there was a guy named Townsend who had a weird isotope of bismuth that exhibited
[1:07:07 - 1:07:12] ▶
anti-gravity properties.
[1:07:12 - 1:07:13] ▶
And bismuth shows up in Townsend Brown's papers as, didn't use the word topological insulator,
[1:07:13 - 1:07:20] ▶
but as a high-k dielectric in his capacitor experiments.
[1:07:20 - 1:07:24] ▶
And so he's using high energy and applying it to this insulator.
[1:07:24 - 1:07:28] ▶
And so that's fascinating.
[1:07:28 - 1:07:30] ▶
Bismuth is an inherently topological dopant to different semiconductor materials.
[1:07:30 - 1:07:34] ▶
So when you have a lattice, which can be a metallic conductor or an insulator or a semiconductor,
[1:07:34 - 1:07:40] ▶
has this band gap between the valence electrons and the conduction electrons.
[1:07:40 - 1:07:44] ▶
In a conductor, they overlap.
[1:07:44 - 1:07:46] ▶
And insulator, they're quite far apart.
[1:07:47 - 1:07:48] ▶
They don't jump on their own with thermal energy.
[1:07:48 - 1:07:50] ▶
And a semiconductor that's very close.
[1:07:50 - 1:07:53] ▶
Top-latch mousselater is kind of a warping of the semiconductor definition in that band
[1:07:53 - 1:07:57] ▶
gap can move and change.
[1:07:57 - 1:07:59] ▶
If you apply a B field, if you warm it up, if you do it for that pool of doubt, if you
[1:07:59 - 1:08:02] ▶
do it for things to it, it could be individual quantum states, the band gap.
[1:08:02 - 1:08:06] ▶
But the issue is you can apply an external field and it stops being an insulator and turns
[1:08:06 - 1:08:11] ▶
Upturned into unobtainium by any other mean.
[1:08:14 - 1:08:17] ▶
And what is that something special involved as far as its properties?
[1:08:17 - 1:08:21] ▶
What can that something special be?
[1:08:21 - 1:08:22] ▶
Well, for example, the right metamaterial with an external magnetic field on it might
[1:08:22 - 1:08:26] ▶
emit positive and negative matter that you can drive the warfield with.
[1:08:26 - 1:08:32] ▶
And so with negative mass, you could theoretically affect kind of the quantum vacuum.
[1:08:33 - 1:08:40] ▶
And you could create a gradient that you could sort of surf.
[1:08:40 - 1:08:42] ▶
You could surf space time itself.
[1:08:42 - 1:08:44] ▶
Yes, that's one of those.
[1:08:45 - 1:08:46] ▶
That's the Alcubiae air notion.
[1:08:46 - 1:08:48] ▶
You can have a gradient that you can surf on a thrall space.
[1:08:48 - 1:08:53] ▶
High east, it's being sucked into space time or into the vacuum.
[1:08:53 - 1:08:58] ▶
Like you're slitting open and envelope and it pulls you in.
[1:08:58 - 1:09:01] ▶
It's kind of interesting.
[1:09:01 - 1:09:03] ▶
But we're at the beginning of the science because it's been covered up and unfunded for
[1:09:04 - 1:09:09] ▶
I think there's a convergence of that science and consciousness stuff.
[1:09:11 - 1:09:14] ▶
The consciousness stuff is full of snake oil and woo woo BS.
[1:09:14 - 1:09:19] ▶
Except where Donald Hoffman is.
[1:09:19 - 1:09:21] ▶
Well, except for Donald Hoffman.
[1:09:22 - 1:09:23] ▶
And I think a lineage of what's called parapsychology at elite universities in mid-century where
[1:09:23 - 1:09:29] ▶
they're studying basically random or conventionally thought of as random quantum mechanical
[1:09:29 - 1:09:34] ▶
effects like radioactive isotope decay and seeing that there is an ability for the mind
[1:09:34 - 1:09:39] ▶
to affect in a statistically significant way, you know, the output of ones or zeros
[1:09:39 - 1:09:44] ▶
on kind of a good interface.
[1:09:44 - 1:09:46] ▶
People, people that that knee jerk reaction.
[1:09:46 - 1:09:50] ▶
This is not can't happen.
[1:09:50 - 1:09:52] ▶
Need to go read the peer reviewed hundred or so papers written by Dean Raiden demonstrating
[1:09:52 - 1:10:01] ▶
conclusively these effects are real.
[1:10:01 - 1:10:06] ▶
I couldn't agree more.
[1:10:06 - 1:10:07] ▶
One of my close mentors who couldn't be more credible as far as like what he does in
[1:10:07 - 1:10:13] ▶
And I think we're going to come out with an interview saying was very involved in the
[1:10:14 - 1:10:19] ▶
Princeton Parapsychology Lab and and the random event generator experiments.
[1:10:19 - 1:10:23] ▶
And I've hit him with every single skeptical, you know, file drawer issue, survivorship
[1:10:24 - 1:10:29] ▶
by SP hack, you know, whatever.
[1:10:29 - 1:10:31] ▶
And like he has great answers for all of it.
[1:10:31 - 1:10:33] ▶
And at a certain point you have to be like, well, that can't exist because I don't want
[1:10:33 - 1:10:37] ▶
it to exist and actually maybe there's something there.
[1:10:37 - 1:10:40] ▶
Yeah, I had to be converted to be convinced that there's something here, but there's definitely
[1:10:40 - 1:10:45] ▶
I think the thing that is there, the physical possible model of consciousness would be if
[1:10:46 - 1:10:51] ▶
the penrose thing is right.
[1:10:51 - 1:10:53] ▶
So if there's something in the brain that can maintain quantum coherence and then it kind
[1:10:53 - 1:10:58] ▶
of, you know, decoheres and then you see reality in this kind of macroscopic, relativistic
[1:10:58 - 1:11:04] ▶
way, then you're sort of rendering reality in real time.
[1:11:04 - 1:11:08] ▶
As you as you live it, you're rendering.
[1:11:08 - 1:11:11] ▶
And it comports fully with the Wheeler observer theory of the universe model.
[1:11:12 - 1:11:16] ▶
So if you are responsible for the rendering and it's, but that decoherence is going on
[1:11:16 - 1:11:23] ▶
in your mind, then your ability to affect matter isn't like you're like shooting particles
[1:11:23 - 1:11:30] ▶
out at the material world.
[1:11:30 - 1:11:32] ▶
It's you're affecting the rendering of the material world.
[1:11:32 - 1:11:35] ▶
If that makes sense, but you are the interface, it's going on inside the mind.
[1:11:35 - 1:11:40] ▶
So distance is not effect.
[1:11:40 - 1:11:43] ▶
So distance is not a factor, which is all the quantum stuff with distance is not a distance
[1:11:43 - 1:11:47] ▶
and time or not a factor.
[1:11:47 - 1:11:48] ▶
You have temporal and spatial non-mocality.
[1:11:48 - 1:11:50] ▶
You almost kind of need something like this to get from, to get through here.
[1:11:50 - 1:11:53] ▶
You need an effect that appears to take place in a realm work to where distance is not
[1:11:53 - 1:11:59] ▶
Which in all the random event generator experiments, time and distance don't matter.
[1:12:02 - 1:12:07] ▶
And it's so it's really, so how do you guys think?
[1:12:07 - 1:12:10] ▶
If you have on the one side, you have kind of consciousness stuff.
[1:12:11 - 1:12:14] ▶
And then on the other side, you have exotic propulsion, high energy physics.
[1:12:14 - 1:12:18] ▶
Do you guys think they converge anywhere?
[1:12:18 - 1:12:20] ▶
So I've been into the work of Hoffman now for three years.
[1:12:21 - 1:12:27] ▶
And he come up with this model of consciousness in a challenge from a famous physicist at
[1:12:28 - 1:12:40] ▶
Princeton, who told him, I need you to show me that your model of consciousness might be
[1:12:40 - 1:12:47] ▶
able to be based upon or utilize what's called decorated permutations because they are
[1:12:47 - 1:12:56] ▶
involved in a physical object called amplitude hydrants, which are relevant to modern, current
[1:12:56 - 1:13:03] ▶
ongoing quantum physics.
[1:13:03 - 1:13:05] ▶
So this is a really interesting model and Hoffman is brilliant at describing how you get from
[1:13:07 - 1:13:17] ▶
this gigantic collection of conscious agents that are implemented in these permutations
[1:13:17 - 1:13:26] ▶
that are decorated with other information, project down to each of us individually to
[1:13:26 - 1:13:33] ▶
give us our space time rendering, that's our desktop that we've used the universe through
[1:13:33 - 1:13:40] ▶
But we all are derived from this up here.
[1:13:41 - 1:13:43] ▶
So his theory from the outset requires a universal consciousness pool.
[1:13:43 - 1:13:49] ▶
So that's interesting.
[1:13:50 - 1:13:52] ▶
So then over here, you've got Wolfram and his team with a brilliant physicist writing
[1:13:52 - 1:13:58] ▶
papers in it, who have taken hypergraphs, which are basically structures for programs
[1:13:58 - 1:14:05] ▶
and so forth, computational structures, and they have now worked out in peer reviewed
[1:14:05 - 1:14:13] ▶
papers how you can take one of these hypergraphs and keep twiddling it and working on until
[1:14:13 - 1:14:19] ▶
you get down to pool.
[1:14:19 - 1:14:21] ▶
What I've got here is I've built from code, the general theory of relativity, and you
[1:14:21 - 1:14:28] ▶
do it over here slightly differently, and you get down to, I've run this code and done
[1:14:28 - 1:14:34] ▶
all this work and what came out of it is quantum field theory.
[1:14:34 - 1:14:38] ▶
So I asked the following question, is it ever going to be possible to connect the information
[1:14:38 - 1:14:48] ▶
field that's being manipulated by consciousness to all the stuff over here?
[1:14:48 - 1:14:53] ▶
So I asked the following technical question, is very technical answer.
[1:14:53 - 1:15:00] ▶
Is there a mathematical connection between decorated permutations and hypergraphs, and
[1:15:00 - 1:15:07] ▶
I found a mapping through certain permutations that directly map from the decorated permutations
[1:15:07 - 1:15:16] ▶
all to the components in the hypergraph, and that's my only result so far, but it's
[1:15:16 - 1:15:22] ▶
the beginning of how you marry consciousness if he has the right model to physics, if they
[1:15:22 - 1:15:30] ▶
have the right model.
[1:15:30 - 1:15:31] ▶
So for me, it might be string theory, it might be something a goofy crazy mathematician
[1:15:31 - 1:15:37] ▶
would do, but it's really enticing.
[1:15:37 - 1:15:40] ▶
And I have this mechanism written down and I'm writing it up.
[1:15:40 - 1:15:44] ▶
He described it to me on the train over and I was kind of mind-borne.
[1:15:46 - 1:15:52] ▶
We got to get you and him and Pines in the same room to go over the hypergraph connection,
[1:15:52 - 1:15:56] ▶
because I'll let you guys go.
[1:15:56 - 1:15:59] ▶
Pines, if you're seeming, you're amazing.
[1:16:02 - 1:16:08] ▶
We'll do part three with all of us.
[1:16:11 - 1:16:14] ▶
That sounds like a blast.
[1:16:14 - 1:16:16] ▶
What people are seeing is this kind of conversation and that kind of interaction is how scientists
[1:16:16 - 1:16:24] ▶
They bounce them off each other.
[1:16:27 - 1:16:28] ▶
They write them down.
[1:16:28 - 1:16:29] ▶
They correct each other.
[1:16:30 - 1:16:32] ▶
They're hard on each other.
[1:16:32 - 1:16:33] ▶
They're supportive of each other and in the end, we get somewhere.
[1:16:33 - 1:16:37] ▶
I don't know that this is going to go anywhere, but when you're a scientist, in my case, I'm
[1:16:37 - 1:16:45] ▶
mathematician, and you're working on something and you have this notion, and you sit down
[1:16:45 - 1:16:53] ▶
and all of a sudden this chill washes over you.
[1:16:53 - 1:16:57] ▶
You feel the surge of adrenaline and you see your way through and you write it down and
[1:16:57 - 1:17:04] ▶
you go, I have figured out the connection between this and this and here's how we do it.
[1:17:04 - 1:17:10] ▶
It's just this most unreal thing that happens to people in the moment of discovery.
[1:17:10 - 1:17:16] ▶
So what do you think is happening overall?
[1:17:17 - 1:17:21] ▶
It feels like we were talking earlier when I first saw you.
[1:17:21 - 1:17:25] ▶
Things are happening.
[1:17:25 - 1:17:26] ▶
I was like, no, things feel like they're speeding up.
[1:17:26 - 1:17:27] ▶
We just had hearings on the Hill, both in the Congress, and then this week in the Senate.
[1:17:28 - 1:17:34] ▶
This revelation of this program called the maculate constellation.
[1:17:34 - 1:17:37] ▶
We have a new director of the all-domain anomalous resolution office.
[1:17:37 - 1:17:42] ▶
But even more broadly, it just feels like in the zeitgeist, alien.
[1:17:42 - 1:17:46] ▶
That's for me the important part.
[1:17:46 - 1:17:49] ▶
The zeitgeist has changed sufficiently that it's okay to discuss this and band you about
[1:17:50 - 1:17:57] ▶
ideas about it without being afraid you're going to be called a moron or crazy.
[1:17:57 - 1:18:01] ▶
So the felt sense of it is like this is, and I feel with the show too, where I'm like,
[1:18:01 - 1:18:06] ▶
I'm going hard, like traveling everywhere.
[1:18:06 - 1:18:10] ▶
It feels like things are about to blow up in this area.
[1:18:10 - 1:18:13] ▶
The next year is going to be extremely revelatory.
[1:18:13 - 1:18:16] ▶
That's really based on instinct.
[1:18:16 - 1:18:20] ▶
Maybe I know more than the average person as far as possible things coming down the
[1:18:20 - 1:18:23] ▶
pike, but it's really like this kind of intimation that big things are happening and
[1:18:23 - 1:18:30] ▶
real revelations are going to happen when it comes to ontological truth.
[1:18:30 - 1:18:34] ▶
Maybe again, that's supported somewhat by the new administration.
[1:18:34 - 1:18:39] ▶
Say what you will about it, but it feels like there's some.
[1:18:39 - 1:18:41] ▶
If they, if the new administration will come in and release research funds to support
[1:18:41 - 1:18:49] ▶
the university faculty and the students, we will build a cadre of people that can move
[1:18:49 - 1:18:55] ▶
us down this line faster.
[1:18:55 - 1:18:58] ▶
It's like how, if you're aware of the reality of this stuff and you're aware of the reality
[1:18:59 - 1:19:05] ▶
of science that's been totally suppressed that is important for the U.S. to maintain its
[1:19:05 - 1:19:12] ▶
national, you know, international primacy, how could you in your right mind not, you
[1:19:12 - 1:19:17] ▶
know, just keep going with this kind of Cold War secrecy where like nothing gets
[1:19:17 - 1:19:22] ▶
The most damaging thing to technological and intellectual progress inside the United
[1:19:23 - 1:19:30] ▶
States, nearly hampered it into non-existence is while we were doing all this wild development
[1:19:30 - 1:19:37] ▶
of quantum mechanics and general relativity, nuclear energy and so forth and so on, we
[1:19:37 - 1:19:43] ▶
We interacted with people all over the world, scientists got on boats and traveled to Europe,
[1:19:45 - 1:19:51] ▶
people came from Asia, we came to interacted conferences and they shared stuff.
[1:19:51 - 1:19:57] ▶
We've stopped doing it, allowing that and people are trapped with the inability to travel
[1:19:57 - 1:20:04] ▶
or interact because they don't have the funds to do that operation.
[1:20:04 - 1:20:08] ▶
So support for this is the only way we will make major breakthroughs because we don't
[1:20:08 - 1:20:15] ▶
know who, like, people are going to look at this and they go, who is this guy with a purple
[1:20:15 - 1:20:20] ▶
shirt on for the Southern accent.
[1:20:20 - 1:20:22] ▶
Why does he know this because I was allowed to take time to think about it and listen to
[1:20:22 - 1:20:29] ▶
others who talked about it?
[1:20:29 - 1:20:31] ▶
And so I had an idea, it may be useless, but I don't, I feel it's not.
[1:20:31 - 1:20:36] ▶
But if that's happening across all sorts of places, who knows who will walk into the
[1:20:36 - 1:20:42] ▶
room as a young person about to learn something and make a major contribution to this and
[1:20:42 - 1:20:49] ▶
just chase our entire universe.
[1:20:49 - 1:20:51] ▶
Well, it's a beautiful thing too because I think the elite citadel of, you know, physicists
[1:20:51 - 1:20:56] ▶
or, you know, even philosophers, like academia itself is going to be, you know, proven to
[1:20:56 - 1:21:03] ▶
be kind of stale in this new model where like this stuff exists and so you're going to
[1:21:03 - 1:21:07] ▶
get these kind of amateur experimentalist people who just listen.
[1:21:07 - 1:21:10] ▶
We don't have a choice.
[1:21:10 - 1:21:11] ▶
Earnestly, and we have to let them in and we have to allow them to contribute because
[1:21:11 - 1:21:15] ▶
this is, it's a really interesting field where if you just early on it have get instincts
[1:21:15 - 1:21:19] ▶
and earnestly, you know, work at it.
[1:21:19 - 1:21:21] ▶
Not very much admire.
[1:21:21 - 1:21:23] ▶
Erick Weinstein's public stance on the disastrous things we have done to intellectual development,
[1:21:23 - 1:21:31] ▶
science, education, et cetera, in the current environment.
[1:21:31 - 1:21:35] ▶
I hope people listen to him.
[1:21:35 - 1:21:38] ▶
I hope people listen to him too.
[1:21:38 - 1:21:40] ▶
And I hope we can, maybe we can create some sort of institute outside of academia that
[1:21:40 - 1:21:46] ▶
allows for safe, exfiltration of science that has been suppressed historically and stuck
[1:21:46 - 1:21:54] ▶
and lodged in these compartments and government and aerospace.
[1:21:54 - 1:21:58] ▶
And I think it's really important if there's a way to do that.
[1:21:58 - 1:22:01] ▶
You don't want to tip your hat to the adversary.
[1:22:01 - 1:22:03] ▶
You know, you don't want to allow infinitely destructive tech out.
[1:22:03 - 1:22:07] ▶
But the idea that science itself should be, you know, snapshot whatever we had in 1957
[1:22:07 - 1:22:13] ▶
is the end of history when it comes to science.
[1:22:13 - 1:22:16] ▶
And it's not even good from a national security standpoint.
[1:22:18 - 1:22:20] ▶
It's not good for basically any, any stamp of, look, new physics, new math, new biology,
[1:22:20 - 1:22:27] ▶
new chemistry from that.
[1:22:27 - 1:22:29] ▶
We're going to get new materials, new medicines, new ideas, new ways of doing things and we're
[1:22:29 - 1:22:35] ▶
But we need major ideas to figure out how to undo the damage we're doing to our environment.
[1:22:36 - 1:22:45] ▶
Overuse, over consumption.
[1:22:45 - 1:22:47] ▶
So the recovery of materials in an energy efficient manner, but we need serious research.
[1:22:48 - 1:22:59] ▶
You need it to be sexy to get into the technical fields again.
[1:22:59 - 1:23:03] ▶
I got to tell you that Hume Center was funded by science and technology guy from CIA named
[1:23:03 - 1:23:14] ▶
Ted Hugh and his wife.
[1:23:14 - 1:23:17] ▶
Ted left CIA, started a company, did well, sold it to Connecticut and plowed some of the
[1:23:17 - 1:23:24] ▶
money back into the center.
[1:23:24 - 1:23:26] ▶
And the goal for the center was talking young people into doing technical science and engineering
[1:23:26 - 1:23:33] ▶
et cetera and be willing to think about doing it for the government in the intelligence
[1:23:33 - 1:23:40] ▶
community, department of defense, et cetera.
[1:23:40 - 1:23:44] ▶
And he put his money where his mouth was.
[1:23:44 - 1:23:46] ▶
And so what we did was we got kids to work on problems of the government wanted solved
[1:23:46 - 1:23:56] ▶
by carving off pieces that would be attractive to them that were totally unclassified, could
[1:23:56 - 1:24:03] ▶
be used for PhD thesis, master thesis, senior projects, et cetera.
[1:24:03 - 1:24:10] ▶
While at the same time introducing them to the other side of the equation and some of them
[1:24:10 - 1:24:16] ▶
would go all the way and they would get a security clearance, they would get a summer
[1:24:16 - 1:24:21] ▶
job and they wound up leaving school not with full 20 years of debt but with money in their
[1:24:21 - 1:24:30] ▶
And they went in and to a large extent stayed in because they did not need to worry about
[1:24:31 - 1:24:38] ▶
where the next bill was going to get paid from.
[1:24:38 - 1:24:41] ▶
And so it's a concept which can be done over and over again if we just decide to do it.
[1:24:41 - 1:24:48] ▶
It's a timeless concept whether it was the Institute of Advanced Studies which was formed
[1:24:48 - 1:24:53] ▶
by Abraham Flexner who wrote a great paper which was the ospice under which it operated
[1:24:53 - 1:25:00] ▶
which was the usefulness of useless things.
[1:25:00 - 1:25:04] ▶
Let's fund evergreen, put tons of money into long time horizon.
[1:25:04 - 1:25:09] ▶
Yeah, there's a great book actually called Leisure as the Basis of Culture and it talks
[1:25:09 - 1:25:16] ▶
about the root of the word school is the Greek school A which actually double, it's a double
[1:25:16 - 1:25:21] ▶
meaning and it means Leisure and it's actually come to be associated with the Latin scholar
[1:25:21 - 1:25:25] ▶
And so actually like academia should be this leisurely contemplation of the world where
[1:25:27 - 1:25:31] ▶
you shouldn't be worried about where your next paycheck is coming from.
[1:25:31 - 1:25:34] ▶
And it's just turned into this kind of you know hyper rat race where we're scurrying over
[1:25:34 - 1:25:39] ▶
one another, it publish or perish you know whatever.
[1:25:39 - 1:25:43] ▶
And so yeah something like this or a Bell Labs which is you know hybrid you know private
[1:25:43 - 1:25:47] ▶
but also public funding where you're putting tons of money into new science and innovation
[1:25:47 - 1:25:52] ▶
seems like it would be necessary.
[1:25:52 - 1:25:54] ▶
And the return on investment how can it not be good because when we've unleashed the
[1:25:54 - 1:26:00] ▶
human intellectual capacity to operate freely we have never lost.
[1:26:00 - 1:26:05] ▶
Well out of Bell Labs you got the semiconductor and that is responsible for like a third of
[1:26:05 - 1:26:10] ▶
our modern economy and you could say oh that could have been happened in a private venture
[1:26:10 - 1:26:14] ▶
capital context like no it couldn't like it you needed way too much money to make that
[1:26:14 - 1:26:19] ▶
And so the government funding thing is incredibly important in that I hope that does get revitalized.
[1:26:20 - 1:26:24] ▶
Lon Musk is completely and utterly destroying the old way of going to space and giving
[1:26:24 - 1:26:32] ▶
us a new way of going to space.
[1:26:32 - 1:26:34] ▶
And he did it because he first most strapped his way to money then he turned his ideas
[1:26:34 - 1:26:40] ▶
and put his entire fortune at risk bringing us space X.
[1:26:40 - 1:26:45] ▶
But so that isn't the only model that will work but the gist of it freeing people to do
[1:26:45 - 1:26:52] ▶
what they can do so that their minds are engaged and they're not worried all the time we will
[1:26:52 - 1:26:59] ▶
see magic happen come out of it.
[1:26:59 - 1:27:01] ▶
I agree and I think hopefully you know Elon I think he's been walking back his dogmatism
[1:27:01 - 1:27:07] ▶
around you know basically like chemical combustion being the only way when it comes to space
[1:27:07 - 1:27:13] ▶
And so I hope he becomes open to this because he's obviously you know America's chief
[1:27:14 - 1:27:18] ▶
industrialist he's incredibly important for anything we do on the science and tech front.
[1:27:18 - 1:27:23] ▶
When he focuses on a thing it seems to just happen.
[1:27:23 - 1:27:25] ▶
And so I hope he shifts his focus towards you know more exotic science like this because
[1:27:25 - 1:27:32] ▶
it would seem to be you know right up his alley given you know his overall modus operandi
[1:27:32 - 1:27:38] ▶
The old in agile structures are not working for this problem set.
[1:27:39 - 1:27:43] ▶
So he is pretty much the perfect example of wiping away the old structures with new
[1:27:43 - 1:27:48] ▶
All because he got angry when the Russians wouldn't sell a Moroccan.
[1:27:51 - 1:27:55] ▶
He wanted to put a garden on Mars.
[1:27:56 - 1:27:59] ▶
And then it's interesting he and Mike Griffin because they were the they had really made
[1:27:59 - 1:28:03] ▶
more progress in liquid fuel rocket engines.
[1:28:03 - 1:28:06] ▶
So he and Mike Griffin go to Russia and they actually find the rocket engines.
[1:28:06 - 1:28:12] ▶
Mike Griffin goes forms you know later he forms space force but he became the NASA admin
[1:28:12 - 1:28:17] ▶
and then he forms space acts Elon Musk.
[1:28:17 - 1:28:20] ▶
And so it's this interesting sort of tech transfer or something that happened for that.
[1:28:20 - 1:28:24] ▶
Yeah they they had they owned the engines for decades with the RD 180 and those things
[1:28:24 - 1:28:31] ▶
they're fantastic engines.
[1:28:31 - 1:28:33] ▶
Musk has left them in the dust.
[1:28:33 - 1:28:36] ▶
Why do you think Elon Musk you know it's been revealed that he's met with Putin a bunch
[1:28:36 - 1:28:40] ▶
I found that very interesting because I think you know it's like he's providing starling
[1:28:41 - 1:28:46] ▶
terminals to Ukraine and he's sort of like you know openly helping Ukraine right when
[1:28:46 - 1:28:50] ▶
the war starts and then he meets with Putin.
[1:28:50 - 1:28:53] ▶
It is this interesting thing where maybe the actions don't reflect you know what you're
[1:28:53 - 1:28:57] ▶
So Elon is beyond important to the national security state and its needs for overhead stuff
[1:28:58 - 1:29:06] ▶
by transferring their stuff to space.
[1:29:06 - 1:29:08] ▶
He's very important for his a bunch of national security contracts.
[1:29:08 - 1:29:13] ▶
So what this means is and he can't be above the law.
[1:29:13 - 1:29:16] ▶
So the following is a fact if he's interacting with the head of state how the adversary
[1:29:16 - 1:29:23] ▶
is required to do reporting to his security officer.
[1:29:23 - 1:29:28] ▶
If he has not done security reporting of all of this to his security officer he is in
[1:29:28 - 1:29:33] ▶
violation of the terms of his security clearance.
[1:29:33 - 1:29:37] ▶
I'm not saying any of this is true.
[1:29:37 - 1:29:39] ▶
I'm saying if it is true it's a real problem.
[1:29:39 - 1:29:43] ▶
Well I bet I'm sure he was communicative with his security officer and then that
[1:29:43 - 1:29:49] ▶
like the question maybe politics isn't what it seems or something.
[1:29:49 - 1:29:54] ▶
It's just an interesting kind of question but okay so we've gone into but I don't know
[1:29:54 - 1:30:01] ▶
what impact and haven't been told by any what impact Musk having the interaction with
[1:30:01 - 1:30:07] ▶
Putin has had on anything.
[1:30:07 - 1:30:09] ▶
We've gotten to some of the physics around UFOs and aliens.
[1:30:10 - 1:30:14] ▶
Why do you think they're here and what do you think they're dealing?
[1:30:14 - 1:30:19] ▶
So I know a lot of experiences and I've talked to a lot of experiences and for whatever
[1:30:19 - 1:30:25] ▶
reason even though I have an intelligence community background and I'm this you know egghead scientist
[1:30:25 - 1:30:33] ▶
they still seem to talk to me and they have for a while.
[1:30:33 - 1:30:36] ▶
So the following seems to be their story not my story but their story.
[1:30:36 - 1:30:42] ▶
They're doing for eating experiments for reasons we don't know.
[1:30:42 - 1:30:47] ▶
The government in secrecy knows but the people who are being used for these experiments
[1:30:47 - 1:30:52] ▶
don't know why it's being done but it's interesting.
[1:30:52 - 1:30:58] ▶
The psalm are coming because they're constantly telling the innocence and the young and the
[1:30:58 - 1:31:06] ▶
powerless to go out and tell everybody who are not treating our planet well.
[1:31:06 - 1:31:13] ▶
So some are coming because this place is magical.
[1:31:13 - 1:31:17] ▶
The ecology and the totally perfect conditions for life they can't be like this everywhere.
[1:31:17 - 1:31:26] ▶
I believe life is on a lot of places.
[1:31:26 - 1:31:29] ▶
I don't believe there are many places that are so suited to life as this is.
[1:31:29 - 1:31:35] ▶
This planet is and we need to take care of it.
[1:31:35 - 1:31:38] ▶
And I think a bunch of them that care about all of this are here sampling our life forms,
[1:31:38 - 1:31:45] ▶
interacting, trying to figure out how it all worked, how it was all put together and they
[1:31:45 - 1:31:49] ▶
have the time and capacity and resources to study the problem for a long time.
[1:31:49 - 1:31:55] ▶
Because I think they've been here for a long time.
[1:31:55 - 1:31:57] ▶
Have you met an experience here that has gotten an implant?
[1:31:57 - 1:32:00] ▶
And have you seen the implant?
[1:32:01 - 1:32:04] ▶
My girlfriend has two implants.
[1:32:04 - 1:32:07] ▶
One of them is in her leg right next to her femur and one of them is in her forehead.
[1:32:08 - 1:32:12] ▶
So she occasionally gets these headaches.
[1:32:12 - 1:32:15] ▶
She said I think this thing is going on inside her forehead.
[1:32:15 - 1:32:18] ▶
So I guess I'm at a guess.
[1:32:18 - 1:32:21] ▶
I said alright here's all I'm going to do.
[1:32:21 - 1:32:25] ▶
I'm going to get an electromagnetic field sensor and I'm going to put it next to her head
[1:32:25 - 1:32:32] ▶
and see what happens.
[1:32:32 - 1:32:33] ▶
And I have a video online of me moving this field meter across her head and watching
[1:32:33 - 1:32:39] ▶
Human bodies don't pulse.
[1:32:44 - 1:32:45] ▶
RF transmissions terrifying.
[1:32:45 - 1:32:47] ▶
That's any was coming right out of her forehead.
[1:32:47 - 1:32:50] ▶
I have a video which I will show you and share with you.
[1:32:51 - 1:32:55] ▶
And so what does she think the implant might be being used for?
[1:33:07 - 1:33:11] ▶
I think it's a geolocation and other information transfer mechanism.
[1:33:11 - 1:33:16] ▶
Why else would they do a digital burst coming out of her forehead?
[1:33:16 - 1:33:21] ▶
So they're saying so looked.
[1:33:21 - 1:33:23] ▶
I didn't believe these.
[1:33:23 - 1:33:24] ▶
Can I tell you straight up?
[1:33:24 - 1:33:26] ▶
I didn't believe these stories at all about these implants and then been used trackie until
[1:33:26 - 1:33:32] ▶
I rode the pat and formed the company that tells you how they do it.
[1:33:32 - 1:33:38] ▶
Hulk eye 360 is how the aliens would find these beacons all over the planet.
[1:33:39 - 1:33:45] ▶
The technology behind Hulk eye 360 is how the aliens could track us across the planet.
[1:33:46 - 1:33:52] ▶
So you're saying the sensor tech.
[1:33:53 - 1:33:55] ▶
So you have a company Hulk eye 360 that does the master.
[1:33:55 - 1:33:58] ▶
It does sensory analysis satellites in space.
[1:33:58 - 1:34:02] ▶
But it finds our earthy emitters on the ground.
[1:34:02 - 1:34:05] ▶
So if they have a 1.6 gigahertz emitter in your skull.
[1:34:05 - 1:34:10] ▶
The satellites flying over your head can locate that thing to a square meter.
[1:34:10 - 1:34:17] ▶
With Hulk eye 360 you could geolocate your girlfriend forever.
[1:34:18 - 1:34:23] ▶
And so you're saying that presumably aliens have this tech.
[1:34:23 - 1:34:28] ▶
Well there are a thousand years or more ahead of us so they have the tech.
[1:34:28 - 1:34:31] ▶
Were you able to glean much from what the meter was saying about the...
[1:34:31 - 1:34:34] ▶
Yeah it was truly strobing.
[1:34:35 - 1:34:37] ▶
So to me as a communications engineer, that's what I did for federated wireless, it's
[1:34:38 - 1:34:44] ▶
a digital communication system.
[1:34:44 - 1:34:47] ▶
I have not taken the time.
[1:34:47 - 1:34:49] ▶
I'm what I already say.
[1:34:49 - 1:34:50] ▶
People are going to go, why haven't you?
[1:34:50 - 1:34:52] ▶
Because I've been busy.
[1:34:52 - 1:34:53] ▶
We were taking the time to figure out what the transmission is, how it's digitally modulated,
[1:34:53 - 1:34:59] ▶
what is the encoding of the data.
[1:34:59 - 1:35:01] ▶
So I can try to figure out what it is they're transmitting.
[1:35:01 - 1:35:04] ▶
But if they've done it right, they've got it encrypted and I'll never break the encryption.
[1:35:04 - 1:35:09] ▶
What's the most insane mind blowing ontologically shocking thing you've experienced?
[1:35:11 - 1:35:16] ▶
And all of your inquiries into UFOs and aliens?
[1:35:16 - 1:35:21] ▶
Okay, so I've put up a bunch of sensors around my house, especially after I visited...
[1:35:22 - 1:35:27] ▶
The most ontologically upsetting, transformative event in my life was becoming curious about
[1:35:28 - 1:35:37] ▶
Chris Spletzle and going to visit him.
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Spend days with him.
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And we had many experiences.
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Tell me about that because I just met Chris Spletzle in DC and I definitely felt like there's
[1:35:45 - 1:35:51] ▶
an interesting energy there for sure.
[1:35:51 - 1:35:53] ▶
And for the audience, Chris Spletzle wrote a book called UFO of God and he was this very
[1:35:53 - 1:35:58] ▶
interesting guy who he claimed to see the lady quote unquote, this divine figure who he
[1:35:58 - 1:36:03] ▶
speaks to once a year.
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He gets prophecies from this woman.
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All of this you could easily write off as total quackery if the lady wasn't in all sorts
[1:36:07 - 1:36:12] ▶
of, you know, it wasn't all throughout NASA and other sort of interesting agencies when
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it comes to her being depicted.
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And then a very high up person at the CIA, Jim Semyvand visiting Chris Spletzle right
[1:36:22 - 1:36:29] ▶
after he gets his sort of prophecies and taking a deep interest in him, along with Tim Taylor
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who was a NASA mission controller.
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It seems like there's a way in which the information that Chris Spletzle is getting is
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comporting with sensitive information that the government actually has.
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And so that's why people are so interested in what he's sort of saying.
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So yeah, what do you think?
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So I began to see all sorts of stuff that I told you about earlier, photos and other things
[1:36:49 - 1:36:54] ▶
that said you appear here.
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And this is, these are photos that you saw just through friends in the kind of class of
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They would say, have you seen this, Bob?
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No, I haven't seen it.
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So thank you for showing it to me.
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But anyway, so because I don't have, they did not have the right to transfer it to me.
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But I just called it happened to see it as I was passing by and they might have said,
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So I became curious because it heated up.
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Something was obviously happening inside the government.
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And of course, there were, I knew there were meetings going on, but I was not privy to
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I saw some drippings.
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So I became curious.
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So the person that I decided could teach me about all these UFO nuts was Richard Dolan
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who wrote two volumes on UFOs and the National Security Stake.
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I am a denizen of the National Security Stake.
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So I figured, okay, I'll go to this guy and figure our stuff out.
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So I built a working relationship, Richard, British books, and then he interviewed Chris
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Fledso and four one hour segments.
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And by the end of it, I was done.
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I'm in Blacksburg, Virginia.
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Chris is over in North Carolina.
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He's two hours from me.
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So I wrote him and said, Chris, I'm a scientist.
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I'll also work for the government doing work at Soforts.
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And I'm very interested in the things that are happening to you.
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I might even be able to help you with some sensors that help you provide more evidence.
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It's actually a curry.
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So he was silent for three weeks.
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And then he said, Hey, Bob, thank you for your offer.
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I've decided you can come over.
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So I went over and I stayed four days, three days, it rained.
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The fourth day, we had a clear night.
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So for three days, he told me every secret thing that's happened to him.
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All that stuff in the book and more.
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He told me while I was in his home, visiting with his family.
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And so on the last night, it was clear.
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He says, it's going to be clear tonight.
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We can do sky observing.
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And I saw this look come over his face.
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It was like he was in trance and communicating with whatever his entrant state was.
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And he says, OK, we should go outside.
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So we went outside, we stood for a minute.
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And there were these little things that were going off like flashballs in the skies and
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And I said, what in the heck is that?
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Well, my brain was going, that's an electromagnetic pulse.
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I bet I could detect that.
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But I was totally engaged in focus.
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And then, all of a sudden, right above the trees, about 300 or 400 meters away, this thing
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flashed into existence.
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It was a massive orb, very bright.
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And it waxed and waned in brightness, colors and oil, floated across the sky, was not
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It was doing curved and zigzimzags and went over the sky and it slowly faded out as it
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So he said, too, called in his oldest son, Ryan to come out, Ryan Bletsow.
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So Ryan came out and as soon as Ryan got out there, and oh, my another one, right over
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our heads, 40 seat and diameter, very bright, floated across the sky and all of us enjoyed
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it until it was gone.
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So Ryan was so excited, he got video of this thing flying over our head and ran in to show
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it to the people with me and the Bletsow family that he had seen one of these things with
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And it was clearly good that I saw it because I was a scientist and I could say it was
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That's really why they wanted me there.
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This I could say, as a scientist, I saw this and it's real.
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I'm here to tell you, I saw it and it was real.
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So we sat there and I began to notice this purple bearer that looked like purple, glowy
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smoke right above the tree tops and it is slowly but surely brightened and it finally got
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to this place where it was visible.
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And I said, you know, Chris, I'm seeing something and he says, you can kind of feel it.
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And all of a sudden, it disappeared.
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All of a sudden, like somebody turned the lights switch off and without missing a beat,
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Chris said, okay, they're gone now and we can go inside.
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I went, whoa, that's telepathy or something.
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It says, that's just wild.
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So we went inside, we finished our visit, pleasantries, hugs, all of those stuff and I
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And they followed me home.
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Like almost everyone who has a serious experience with him, they follow you home.
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I saw them regularly.
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Things will show up in my yard.
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I had this video of a triangle of orbs going up and down, making sure my security camera
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got it and I wondered if they were bugs.
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Which is naturally what you think is an IR, is illuminating bugs.
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So I decided to turn the security camera on long record, go out through the car fort
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and come around and see.
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And I went out through the car fort, came around the corner and I could see them with my naked
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It had nothing to do with the IR.
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And they were just sitting there doing this under triangle.
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And as I started around the corner, they took off and went straight up.
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You will find that I am the next to last incident in his book, UFO of God.
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And he told me while I was there that Jim Simmy van said, Oh, yeah, you should let Bob
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This should be interesting.
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So Jim Simmy van opened the door for me.
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So what do you think?
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Why do you think somebody who was so high up at the CIA like Jim Simmy van seems like a
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really smart, awesome guy?
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Why would he be interested in Chris blood so?
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Because like, yeah, what do you think?
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Jim has now talked publicly.
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So I don't mind saying he had experiences of entities in his room with his wife.
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And they were not pleasant experiences.
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So that traumatized him and his wife.
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And so he became interested in finding out answers.
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And then he heard about Chris blood so and knew enough traditional texts and Latin,
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Roman, Greek, whatever to show this lady stuff is real.
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It's in the church and so forth.
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What is, do you have a sense of what the lady stuff is?
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I believe part of the Chris blood so prophecy is that Easter of, because he sees her every
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He goes out to this one little place next to his property in St. Toxter.
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And I think it's something like Easter of 2026.
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We're going to have some important event happen.
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Do you know about this?
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So I have a real story to tell about that to him.
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This sees a missiles being fired at the country of Iran while he is observing the event, including
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some astronomical events that are in sky over the top of the pyramids at Diza from the
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Astronomers have calculated that date.
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So he doesn't know whether it was a vision or he was transported in time, but the entities
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intervene to stop the bombs from landing.
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That's what he sees.
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Now, how do I know that anyone takes any of this seriously?
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Grant Cameron visited who's a well-known UFO person.
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He wrote written many books on the experience of the phenomenon and so forth.
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He went and visited Chris.
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And Chris shared a picture with him that Grant put up on his Facebook page.
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So I saw the picture and everyone who had seen that picture missed the import of it.
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And what is the import of that picture?
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It's a napkin and an envelope with a napkin partially obscuring the address that's on the
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I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Blitzow.
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I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David.
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There's only one way you can have that napkin because it's a crime to copy the presidential
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It's only one person that can get you to Camp David.
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And the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor.
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And the only person that that story can have been told to in that envelope was Barack Obama.
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The letter to me is Ironclad Proof.
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Chris's story was taken all the way to Barack Obama.
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And you're sure that that seal and that...
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The secret service and others will come and get it you.
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And Grant and others have not been slapped around for doing it.
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So the napkin was legit.
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So this brings up all sorts of questions.
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How you know why I'm a good intelligence agent.
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Just from looking at the picture.
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That's really impressive.
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That's the kind of stuff I used to do.
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Well Tim Taylor to me is the...
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Like people who's the number one person you want to interview.
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I'm like, I love Elon.
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He'll never give an interview.
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I met him once briefly.
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But he's kind of gone dark on me.
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And I would do anything.
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He's my number one person who I want to speak with because he's so intrigued.
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I got him to talk to me for about 10 minutes.
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Because to us Tim, you know, I have good friends with Chris Blitz.
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So I went over to his house.
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And we interacted for 10 minutes and he quickly moved on.
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And from that on, I was like, I didn't exist.
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Who was he trying to do?
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Because just for context for the audience,
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this is a guy who shows up in Diana Pasolka's life
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when she's connecting the dots between
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Catholic concepts of divine interactions with modern uophology.
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And she shows Diana all sorts of interesting things.
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They go to the Vatican together.
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At the Vatican Observatory, they know who Tim Taylor is.
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And they let him into the Vatican archives without her presence.
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Without her presence.
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I guess she claims that he flushed all sorts of interesting, you know, three letter credentials.
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Like all of them is if he was sort of...
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And then Ryan Blitz.
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So Chris Blitz says,
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son says that Tim Taylor was part of...
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It told them that he was part of a secret time travel group in NASA and the Bahamas.
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And Townsend Brown was the president of that time travel group.
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I would think all of this were to be totally insane.
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I'd write it off completely out of hand.
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But I know that Townsend Brown spent a lot of time in the Bahamas.
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And he experimented with gravity.
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But he was secretly extremely interested in time travel because time and gravity are
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really coupled in general relativity.
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So who is Tim Taylor?
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You're trying to keep popping up in all these places.
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Your time axis is not my time axis because whatever gravitational differences are, there
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Your warp spacetime so that your time is not my time.
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What does that have to do with Tim Taylor?
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It's just so interesting that all this gravitation stuff shows...
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And Gates is a famous physicist who has shown how general relativity allows for the transmission
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of information back in time.
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Because isn't there the Hawking, Chronological Conjecture or whatever?
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Yeah, how can you say that to me?
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So I think that there's a certain...
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...finsorship you can't do certain things if they violate certain conditions.
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But sending something back that's just information doesn't necessarily violate any of those
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And so Gates has written down how you get time travel backwards out of a general relativity.
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I don't think others have.
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I think people have already worked out through numerical simulation of how you could use
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black hole gravitational curvature to travel through time.
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This is a reversible wormholes.
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There's the idea that you can reverse qubit positions and quantum computations.
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So it actually makes probably even more sense that you could send info back in time using quantum
[1:50:59 - 1:51:03] ▶
But all of this is interesting, but like what about Tim Taylor?
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Tim Taylor is a NASA mission controller who has access to the president of the United
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And he's done miraculous work in orthopedic instruments.
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The next biotechnology is to the...
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And it made it a hundred million dollars on it.
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I don't know the answer.
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Because how are you a NASA mission controller that biotech entrepreneur, you're telling Diana
[1:51:28 - 1:51:32] ▶
Pousselka, you're part of a secret space program and you're getting sort of borders on high
[1:51:32 - 1:51:37] ▶
from places that even your immediate superiors don't understand that you're part of a secret
[1:51:37 - 1:51:43] ▶
We don't have three letters.
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He worked full of the hammer.
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And no one that I know those do the hammer is.
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So the hammer is this like inethable entity that...
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I don't even know if it's human.
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I don't know if it's NHI.
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I don't know what it is except he told blood so he works for the hammer.
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And this blood so like Tim Taylor or what's...
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Yeah, I think that the relationship has grown more distant.
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They're not really good friends that much anymore, but they were friendly.
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And the story that I like most is Tim Taylor brought a piece of the Roswell crash, put
[1:52:17 - 1:52:22] ▶
it in the Chris's hand and others in the family and Chris showed an enormous unexpected
[1:52:22 - 1:52:29] ▶
reaction and Taylor's response to Chris being impacted so heavily by this UFO material
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I don't understand why you.
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And they tell that story all the time.
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Why you in a suspicious way?
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Why you, why you in a curious way.
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Not negative, just curious.
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And his son as well, right?
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Is the connection there?
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There are multiple members of that family that have really unique abilities.
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I gotta get out there.
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Yeah, we had a good interaction.
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I'm supposed to go down and do show him some new cameras.
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Follow you know, so we'll just go together and maybe even video it.
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Is there anything else we should cover that you know you think is worth bringing up or...
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If I'm 70 years old and I have life full of experiences that are weird.
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So I can't think of anything except I'm gonna keep working on this UAP based science.
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I am having to learn and relearn stuff, but I'm making progress.
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But it's not like I don't have any abilities.
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I took quantum mechanics and differential geometry and relativity when I was in college
[1:53:57 - 1:54:03] ▶
And then when I went to Brown, I took quantum field theory from Leon Cooper who gave us
[1:54:05 - 1:54:09] ▶
the next mission for superconductivity to won the Nobel for it.
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I need to re-jigger my abilities.
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Re-learn the current work.
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Is there anything the audience can do to help you or just follow you on Twitter or...
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Follow me on Twitter.
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What's your Twitter handle?
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Bob McGuire, spelled MCGWIR underscore inforeh y, well that's my amateur radio call
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So Bob McGuire underscore inforeh y is me on X.
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Bob has been an honor and a pleasure.
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It's been a lot of fun and excited to see what you do and all your new scientific endeavors
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and hopefully we can go to the blood cells with you and the journey continues.
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