638 segments
In part two of our interview with the author of the Immaculate Constellation Report.
[0:00:00 - 0:00:04] ▶
So the idea that it could have been a war game, could it have been something, you know,
[0:00:04 - 0:00:08] ▶
some of these UFOs that have been seen over nuclear or missile bases, silos and things
[0:00:08 - 0:00:12] ▶
The implication has been, as with drones, that it's a readiness test of some sort.
[0:00:13 - 0:00:17] ▶
If that had been the only thing I had seen and none of the rest of this saga had happened,
[0:00:17 - 0:00:25] ▶
we wouldn't be talking.
[0:00:25 - 0:00:26] ▶
I go on a meeting with Sissy, give them the paper, including the various compartments and
[0:00:26 - 0:00:34] ▶
programs that they could themselves look into to access the same information that I saw,
[0:00:34 - 0:00:40] ▶
which is ridiculous that Congress has no access to.
[0:00:40 - 0:00:44] ▶
When I was in USDI, I read the transcripts of Sean Patrick Priefing, Senator Rubio,
[0:00:44 - 0:00:50] ▶
Senator Warren, and Senator Gillibrand on the results of his investigation in his
[0:00:50 - 0:00:55] ▶
Congressional Task to Arrow Report.
[0:00:55 - 0:00:57] ▶
And those transcripts were supposed to be open kimono.
[0:00:57 - 0:01:02] ▶
Here's the truth, Mr. Senator, here's the Senator.
[0:01:02 - 0:01:07] ▶
Sean Patrick, absolutely distorted.
[0:01:07 - 0:01:09] ▶
What did you say that was a lie?
[0:01:10 - 0:01:12] ▶
You know, I read these transcripts once and immediately knew that…
[0:01:12 - 0:01:20] ▶
Yeah, veiled threat?
[0:01:20 - 0:01:24] ▶
No, I knew that I was now something else.
[0:01:24 - 0:01:28] ▶
I had inside knowledge into the deception of our government by elements of our intelligence
[0:01:28 - 0:01:35] ▶
People will be so curious of what comes on the fourth page.
[0:01:42 - 0:01:45] ▶
Talk through the pages, just go ahead.
[0:01:45 - 0:01:47] ▶
Yeah, so I mean, like I said, the second series, the second and third examples were
[0:01:47 - 0:01:54] ▶
less interesting to me, but they are images of orbs transiting from coastal facilities
[0:01:55 - 0:02:05] ▶
out to the ocean and sort of describing what those facilities were, as I think he
[0:02:05 - 0:02:13] ▶
unspoken implication of why something like this would be out there.
[0:02:13 - 0:02:19] ▶
Yes, just a similar, not big, but a general description of we observed this coming from
[0:02:19 - 0:02:26] ▶
this direction or from where this facility, sensitive facility was, left over the ocean.
[0:02:27 - 0:02:33] ▶
This was our task asset and it happened on this date.
[0:02:33 - 0:02:37] ▶
Anything really striking in the rest of that document that really highlighted to you,
[0:02:37 - 0:02:43] ▶
anything else in that document is really striking.
[0:02:43 - 0:02:45] ▶
Yeah, so the last example of the four was back to Russia again.
[0:02:45 - 0:02:52] ▶
This time, I believe in the Atlantic Ocean and it shows another Russian intelligence vessel
[0:02:52 - 0:02:58] ▶
underway this time at night.
[0:02:58 - 0:03:00] ▶
The image is green infrared and it shows above this Russian vessel is another black triangle,
[0:03:00 - 0:03:11] ▶
but where the first example and the Pacific was an equilateral, large,
[0:03:11 - 0:03:17] ▶
pretty stunning object that was of comparable size to the vessels below it.
[0:03:17 - 0:03:21] ▶
This was a more definitely smaller, smaller than the vessel and it was more angular
[0:03:21 - 0:03:27] ▶
in shape and sort of swept back.
[0:03:28 - 0:03:31] ▶
And it was also accompanied by text saying that there was no indication that the Russian vessel
[0:03:31 - 0:03:36] ▶
was responding in any way to this ship hovering above it.
[0:03:36 - 0:03:40] ▶
It did not describe in this instance whether it had miraculously appeared or if it was
[0:03:41 - 0:03:45] ▶
A triangular in shape and hovering.
[0:03:46 - 0:03:49] ▶
Well, hovering probably matching speed, though, too, with the ship.
[0:03:49 - 0:03:52] ▶
Like USS Russell, other people argue that I don't care what shape it is.
[0:03:53 - 0:03:58] ▶
When you have something with range fighters, off of a ship that goes with it, stops with the ship,
[0:03:58 - 0:04:03] ▶
continues. So this is not a new thing, this idea of triangular by angle of observation,
[0:04:03 - 0:04:08] ▶
pyramid in shape, some would say.
[0:04:08 - 0:04:10] ▶
Right. So that's striking and you saw that too.
[0:04:10 - 0:04:13] ▶
Yeah, and that was the last example.
[0:04:14 - 0:04:16] ▶
After that was sort of a summary slide or two about just recapping like the fact that these
[0:04:16 - 0:04:23] ▶
incidents are, we are collecting, sorry, we are collecting these incidents around the world
[0:04:23 - 0:04:27] ▶
that we are focused on, UAP, RAB collection incidents by testing untast assets and the collection
[0:04:28 - 0:04:35] ▶
and analysis of those data streams.
[0:04:35 - 0:04:39] ▶
So sometimes we know where it's going to be, task assets.
[0:04:39 - 0:04:42] ▶
Sometimes we just happen to capture them untast assets.
[0:04:42 - 0:04:45] ▶
And I think a good example is in that brief itself where the orb incidents appeared to be untast assets.
[0:04:46 - 0:04:52] ▶
They were not there to collect on orbs.
[0:04:52 - 0:04:54] ▶
They were there to collect on something else.
[0:04:54 - 0:04:55] ▶
And they have been to catch something.
[0:04:55 - 0:04:57] ▶
Whereas the two Russian incidents, we were there to watch the Russians,
[0:04:58 - 0:05:03] ▶
and their Russians interactions with this technology.
[0:05:03 - 0:05:05] ▶
So your suspicions after seeing this 12 page report is that,
[0:05:06 - 0:05:10] ▶
these are freeze frames of what are videos, videos.
[0:05:10 - 0:05:14] ▶
There's a somewhere, there's a bigger collection of this stuff that's also very interesting.
[0:05:14 - 0:05:18] ▶
Like, you know, there was informal collections of this stuff by interested people on
[0:05:19 - 0:05:28] ▶
And there's absolutely a professional mission-tast databases for this.
[0:05:30 - 0:05:37] ▶
So you've seen, now you've had this exposure,
[0:05:38 - 0:05:41] ▶
you try to do the right thing, and you take great steps to try to do.
[0:05:42 - 0:05:47] ▶
It takes a little while for you.
[0:05:47 - 0:05:49] ▶
So explain that to me what you tried to do.
[0:05:49 - 0:05:51] ▶
So there you go, you see something that you know shouldn't be there on that archive.
[0:05:51 - 0:05:56] ▶
You know, what happens?
[0:05:56 - 0:05:57] ▶
In fact, the first time I read that, I don't know what I just read,
[0:06:00 - 0:06:02] ▶
and if it's even real, maybe somebody just made this thing.
[0:06:02 - 0:06:06] ▶
So you can be like a joke or something?
[0:06:07 - 0:06:09] ▶
Or they put it together literally for a war game, right?
[0:06:09 - 0:06:12] ▶
They had maybe created an imaginary program that maybe they wanted to have, right?
[0:06:13 - 0:06:18] ▶
Or a desired capability, or something that was a representative of the true thing
[0:06:19 - 0:06:25] ▶
Is that normal or common?
[0:06:27 - 0:06:29] ▶
No, that's a weird thought.
[0:06:29 - 0:06:30] ▶
It is a weird thought, but this is what's going through my head because it's so bizarre.
[0:06:30 - 0:06:34] ▶
And you're like, oh, way.
[0:06:34 - 0:06:37] ▶
Yeah, I'm going through everything.
[0:06:37 - 0:06:39] ▶
All the options, why it's not what it is.
[0:06:40 - 0:06:41] ▶
Yeah, so I do nothing for some time.
[0:06:43 - 0:06:47] ▶
And then our office gets a training on like,
[0:06:47 - 0:06:52] ▶
or a refresh training, but this was new in my career.
[0:06:52 - 0:06:54] ▶
So my first time on what to do in cases of spillage for SAP material.
[0:06:54 - 0:06:58] ▶
And I realize, well, no matter how weird this is, this has all the hallmarks of what you guys just said
[0:06:59 - 0:07:04] ▶
is a big fucking deal.
[0:07:04 - 0:07:05] ▶
So, you know, I can either pretend like I didn't open and read this thing 80 times,
[0:07:06 - 0:07:12] ▶
and hope that IT doesn't notice that either, or I can report it myself.
[0:07:12 - 0:07:16] ▶
So I did that, or I tried to do that.
[0:07:17 - 0:07:19] ▶
You tried to report it.
[0:07:20 - 0:07:21] ▶
You read it a bunch, as it's fascinating, and then you try to report it.
[0:07:21 - 0:07:25] ▶
So what does that look like when you try to report that?
[0:07:25 - 0:07:26] ▶
So the first time I went just quietly to my, I guess, my immediate supervisor,
[0:07:27 - 0:07:34] ▶
a retired Army colonel.
[0:07:34 - 0:07:37] ▶
So you go to your supervisor superior?
[0:07:37 - 0:07:39] ▶
I gotta say, hey, I gotta show you something in our closet.
[0:07:40 - 0:07:43] ▶
Our whole office is a skiff, but inside the skiff is another tiny skiff.
[0:07:45 - 0:07:47] ▶
And I think we have like a spillage thing.
[0:07:49 - 0:07:52] ▶
And so I need to show it to you, because this is apparently what we're supposed to do to show it to your boss.
[0:07:52 - 0:07:55] ▶
And then we'll follow the reporting chain.
[0:07:56 - 0:07:57] ▶
You sign a paper, and that's how it's supposed to be handled all by the books.
[0:07:57 - 0:08:01] ▶
And they just trained you on it, and you're like, okay,
[0:08:01 - 0:08:03] ▶
here's what I'm supposed to do.
[0:08:03 - 0:08:04] ▶
So I've tried to follow that while also being quiet about it.
[0:08:05 - 0:08:07] ▶
Take him in, and he's like, okay, so show me what you found.
[0:08:08 - 0:08:12] ▶
I pull up that slide.
[0:08:12 - 0:08:13] ▶
And the first slide, you just because the sojournary gets no reaction,
[0:08:13 - 0:08:17] ▶
but then going to make maybe the second slide,
[0:08:17 - 0:08:20] ▶
or even the third slide, he's just like, okay, stop.
[0:08:21 - 0:08:23] ▶
And I don't answer, but I just look him in the eye,
[0:08:27 - 0:08:30] ▶
and I look at the screen, and I'm like, of course I read about this.
[0:08:32 - 0:08:36] ▶
That's how you know what it exists.
[0:08:36 - 0:08:37] ▶
And he definitely picked up on that, and he, uh,
[0:08:37 - 0:08:39] ▶
the conversation ended with him saying, uh,
[0:08:39 - 0:08:41] ▶
delete it, and he left the room, and we never spoke of it again.
[0:08:41 - 0:08:44] ▶
He's cutting you some slack there, in essence.
[0:08:44 - 0:08:46] ▶
Without we knowing, yes.
[0:08:46 - 0:08:48] ▶
Yeah, you didn't read it, uh, so you're not in any trouble.
[0:08:48 - 0:08:51] ▶
That's chanted here.
[0:08:51 - 0:08:51] ▶
And also as I came to learn, um, you know, it,
[0:08:52 - 0:08:55] ▶
certain material, uh, you get exposed to, and it's,
[0:08:56 - 0:08:59] ▶
you're kind of marked for life that that happened, and uh,
[0:09:01 - 0:09:03] ▶
it's probably not good for your career, at the minimum.
[0:09:03 - 0:09:06] ▶
We've seen other whistleblower friends of ours have, uh,
[0:09:06 - 0:09:08] ▶
experiences like that.
[0:09:08 - 0:09:09] ▶
Didn't realize that at the time.
[0:09:11 - 0:09:13] ▶
Uh, I sit on that for a few days, didn't sit
[0:09:14 - 0:09:17] ▶
right with me, because I'm still thinking like,
[0:09:17 - 0:09:19] ▶
well, that's not what we're supposed to do.
[0:09:19 - 0:09:20] ▶
But everything, supposedly everything we do on the systems,
[0:09:22 - 0:09:24] ▶
every click, every keystroke is monitored.
[0:09:24 - 0:09:26] ▶
So like, I just, I need to self preservation.
[0:09:26 - 0:09:30] ▶
I need to do the keep chewing the right thing here.
[0:09:30 - 0:09:33] ▶
So I go to his boss, or his boss's boss.
[0:09:33 - 0:09:35] ▶
I, I changed my approach.
[0:09:36 - 0:09:38] ▶
I don't say what it is.
[0:09:38 - 0:09:39] ▶
I don't show it to them.
[0:09:39 - 0:09:40] ▶
Um, I don't print it out.
[0:09:40 - 0:09:41] ▶
And I just say, uh, ma'am, uh, we have a spillage incident.
[0:09:42 - 0:09:47] ▶
I believe it's sat material.
[0:09:47 - 0:09:48] ▶
Um, she please provide guidance on, on how to handle this.
[0:09:48 - 0:09:52] ▶
And so, uh, through that, uh, I was connected to our, uh,
[0:09:52 - 0:09:57] ▶
our parent offices, uh, special,
[0:09:57 - 0:09:59] ▶
access, special access program control officer,
[0:09:59 - 0:10:02] ▶
um, had a meeting set up to go meet with them.
[0:10:03 - 0:10:06] ▶
A few days later, that happened.
[0:10:06 - 0:10:07] ▶
I go to that meeting, uh, uh, in a sap F, uh,
[0:10:09 - 0:10:14] ▶
so where this material is supposed to be stored and handled.
[0:10:14 - 0:10:16] ▶
And this person says, okay, show me the material.
[0:10:17 - 0:10:19] ▶
So, uh, I sit down, I'm out to, right.
[0:10:19 - 0:10:23] ▶
What are you showing them to?
[0:10:23 - 0:10:24] ▶
It's like, it's right there at the top of the shared servers.
[0:10:27 - 0:10:30] ▶
Though I'm not like, it's, it's almost instant like this right there.
[0:10:30 - 0:10:32] ▶
I start scrolling through from the bottom, I get no reaction.
[0:10:34 - 0:10:37] ▶
Then he says, okay, let me look at it.
[0:10:37 - 0:10:38] ▶
He goes through, he scrolls through it.
[0:10:39 - 0:10:41] ▶
No reaction on his face.
[0:10:41 - 0:10:42] ▶
I'm watching him very closely at this point, because I'm exceptionally curious about all of this.
[0:10:42 - 0:10:47] ▶
Uh, then he scrolls through it again.
[0:10:49 - 0:10:51] ▶
And he makes a very deliberate, uh, scene where he pauses on Lou Elizondo's slide
[0:10:51 - 0:10:57] ▶
and starts gaffying in a very, uh, non believable way and saying,
[0:10:58 - 0:11:03] ▶
somebody's having a joke.
[0:11:03 - 0:11:05] ▶
Uh, this, you don't need to worry about this.
[0:11:06 - 0:11:08] ▶
And that's not the reaction I was expecting, I was expecting to, at the very least,
[0:11:10 - 0:11:13] ▶
sign the paper, right, saying, you know, this incident happened, yeah, reported it, signed it.
[0:11:13 - 0:11:18] ▶
Uh, so, you know, I tried to ask him, like, are you sure?
[0:11:21 - 0:11:25] ▶
Like, do I need to sign anything?
[0:11:25 - 0:11:26] ▶
He's like, no, you can go.
[0:11:26 - 0:11:27] ▶
And so I left that room and, uh, never, ever had any.
[0:11:27 - 0:11:33] ▶
Anything about that incident come up again, except immediately went checked again for the file.
[0:11:33 - 0:11:39] ▶
Yeah, I went upstairs and I went to see what had happened and it was gone.
[0:11:39 - 0:11:42] ▶
So the idea that it could have been a war game, could it have been something, you know,
[0:11:43 - 0:11:46] ▶
some of these UFOs that have been seen over nuclear missile bases, silos and things of that sort.
[0:11:46 - 0:11:51] ▶
There, the implication has been as with drones that it's a readiness test to sub sort.
[0:11:51 - 0:11:56] ▶
We're going to put some secret, uh, operation unexpected, uh,
[0:11:56 - 0:12:01] ▶
and see how people and systems react to it.
[0:12:01 - 0:12:03] ▶
Could that have been what was going on here?
[0:12:04 - 0:12:05] ▶
Yeah, I mean, it is something that, you know, on the surface level appears plausible.
[0:12:07 - 0:12:13] ▶
I do not believe that to be the case given the circumstances of how it was located.
[0:12:13 - 0:12:18] ▶
The fact that hundreds of people had access to that system, the fact that it's generic labeling.
[0:12:19 - 0:12:24] ▶
It wasn't, you know, there's no red flags on that to draw a drawn, a, uh,
[0:12:24 - 0:12:28] ▶
is a drawny fish to debate as it were, um, to catch somebody.
[0:12:28 - 0:12:33] ▶
And then the process of reporting it, you know, there, there's no outcome from that,
[0:12:33 - 0:12:38] ▶
uh, besides apparently making a lot of people pissed off and worried and kind of scared.
[0:12:38 - 0:12:43] ▶
And let me add to that, um, something that we noticed and I believe it's true reporting,
[0:12:43 - 0:12:47] ▶
which is that when David Grasch testified, um,
[0:12:47 - 0:12:50] ▶
a maclit constellation before the world ever knew those words was searched on Google,
[0:12:50 - 0:12:55] ▶
a ton, additionally over the research and time and sources that we have,
[0:12:55 - 0:13:00] ▶
um, you know, it has been confirmed to us under no uncertain terms that,
[0:13:01 - 0:13:04] ▶
that was the name of a program with that nature.
[0:13:04 - 0:13:08] ▶
So we're looking at it as like a lark, lark kind of thing.
[0:13:08 - 0:13:12] ▶
We get to the point where there's too many outside confirmation after the fact as well as it.
[0:13:12 - 0:13:17] ▶
If that had been the only thing I've seen in none of the rest of this saga had happened,
[0:13:17 - 0:13:24] ▶
right? We wouldn't be talking totally.
[0:13:24 - 0:13:26] ▶
You, you wrote, um, in a paper that was submitted to Congress,
[0:13:27 - 0:13:30] ▶
um, I won't go to a lot of, uh, details in that, but that this was deeply disturbing overall.
[0:13:30 - 0:13:37] ▶
Why was it disturbing to you?
[0:13:37 - 0:13:38] ▶
So it, as time passed, it became disturbing, um, especially, uh,
[0:13:39 - 0:13:45] ▶
after the sort of, um,
[0:13:46 - 0:13:48] ▶
the process of grouch coming forward left awake on the inside too.
[0:13:48 - 0:13:56] ▶
Uh, people were tracking that weren't even involved,
[0:13:57 - 0:14:00] ▶
but we're able to see sort of the distortions on the inside.
[0:14:01 - 0:14:04] ▶
Um, distortions are truth.
[0:14:04 - 0:14:05] ▶
And but also, you know, bureaucracy's in offices behaving weirdly, um,
[0:14:06 - 0:14:11] ▶
uh, around this subject and sort of the movements for reaching out to Congress,
[0:14:12 - 0:14:17] ▶
uh, to get legislation drafted, uh, that eventually became that intelligence authorization act
[0:14:17 - 0:14:22] ▶
and that first NDA, uh, where they provided with sublural protections.
[0:14:22 - 0:14:26] ▶
Um, think that, that was one of the moments that really, uh,
[0:14:27 - 0:14:33] ▶
started to convince me that this was, this was not, um,
[0:14:34 - 0:14:39] ▶
under under our government's control.
[0:14:42 - 0:14:44] ▶
That's a core of why we're talking today.
[0:14:44 - 0:14:46] ▶
Yes. What do you mean?
[0:14:46 - 0:14:47] ▶
Um, just on an emotional level, uh, and blood analysis,
[0:14:48 - 0:14:54] ▶
why the hell is Congress passing a law asking for UFO insiders from the intelligence and military,
[0:14:54 - 0:15:00] ▶
military community to come caught to them directly under amnesty about something that doesn't exist.
[0:15:00 - 0:15:05] ▶
Um, and if it is, does exist an issue, but it's secret, uh,
[0:15:06 - 0:15:11] ▶
apparently are most sensitive congressional committees are not briefed on this.
[0:15:11 - 0:15:16] ▶
Yeah, I find it at the core disturbing you having, uh,
[0:15:17 - 0:15:21] ▶
arrow even asked for whistleblowers to come forward to them, uh,
[0:15:21 - 0:15:24] ▶
having colleagues asking for whistleblowers to come under amnesty to come to them.
[0:15:24 - 0:15:28] ▶
Yes, something's rotten.
[0:15:28 - 0:15:29] ▶
Yeah. And then also at the same time, seeing the, the, the sort of UAP task force and its slow death, uh,
[0:15:29 - 0:15:38] ▶
on the inside and the death of the, you know, sort of open exchange of ideas and problem solving going on.
[0:15:38 - 0:15:45] ▶
There's another data point that pointed to something rotten.
[0:15:45 - 0:15:49] ▶
And the last one that really sealed it, uh, and really convinced me that I need to find a way to
[0:15:49 - 0:15:56] ▶
bring this to Congress, no matter, no matter how small it might be, it apparently matters.
[0:15:57 - 0:16:01] ▶
Uh, was, uh, when I was in USDI, I read the transcripts of Sean Patrick, uh,
[0:16:02 - 0:16:07] ▶
briefing Senator Rubio, Senator Warren and Senator Gillibrand on the results of his investigation in his
[0:16:07 - 0:16:14] ▶
congressional task to arrow report in those transcripts, which were supposed to be a open
[0:16:14 - 0:16:20] ▶
kimono. Uh, here's the truth, Mr. Senator is a Senator, uh, Sean Patrick,
[0:16:20 - 0:16:27] ▶
absolutely distorted downplay and can't prove it, but I would say outright lied to,
[0:16:27 - 0:16:34] ▶
to the people who have direct responsibility for him saying what, what, what did you say?
[0:16:34 - 0:16:38] ▶
It was a lot. So it's more of a lie of the whole thing, the big picture, right?
[0:16:38 - 0:16:45] ▶
In the meeting, it's, you know, oh, we, you know, Congressman Rubio, you know, we've,
[0:16:45 - 0:16:50] ▶
we've heard about this incident. Uh, we just don't have enough data to go on it to really know what
[0:16:50 - 0:16:55] ▶
this is. Uh, we don't have any way of really figuring out what's going on. Um, it could just be an
[0:16:55 - 0:17:01] ▶
anomaly. In fact, it's most likely anomaly. So starting with an acknowledgement that, you know,
[0:17:01 - 0:17:05] ▶
here, you know, yeah, you have some data, but we have the insight and the scientific expertise to,
[0:17:05 - 0:17:10] ▶
to make you feel at ease. Nothing to see here folks moving. Exactly. Although there was also
[0:17:11 - 0:17:16] ▶
political discussion involved in historic discussion. Um, and, you know, I read these transcripts once,
[0:17:16 - 0:17:23] ▶
uh, and immediately knew that,
[0:17:24 - 0:17:26] ▶
uh, yeah, veiled threat. No, I, I knew that I was now something else. I was, in, I had inside
[0:17:26 - 0:17:41] ▶
knowledge into the deception of our government by elements of our intelligence community.
[0:17:41 - 0:17:45] ▶
Um, my blood ran cold of specific point in that transcript where Mr. Rubio is discussing,
[0:17:46 - 0:17:53] ▶
uh, the legacy program. This was a subject of direct discussion with Sean Kirkpatrick in these
[0:17:53 - 0:17:58] ▶
meetings. And based on Mr. Kirkpatrick's replies about as vague as they were, but unable to escape the
[0:17:58 - 0:18:06] ▶
truth of the legacy program. Mr. Rubio's response was, well, what the hell is the executive branch doing?
[0:18:06 - 0:18:13] ▶
Have they been running this for 60 years without congressional oversight? I might be paraphrasing a
[0:18:13 - 0:18:18] ▶
little, but that's near enough for Badam. And I saw that line and I, I basically closed that file
[0:18:18 - 0:18:23] ▶
and, uh, had a pre-sleepless night. All right. Uh, you said your blood ran cold, meaning
[0:18:24 - 0:18:30] ▶
your pissed, your spooked. Scared what is scared scared for your country? I just think in general,
[0:18:30 - 0:18:36] ▶
it's like a, I don't know, there was nothing associated. It was just like immediate. Oh, fuck.
[0:18:36 - 0:18:42] ▶
Good response. Yeah. I mean, you now know this is real. This is a cover-up. They are lying about
[0:18:43 - 0:18:48] ▶
this stuff. Yeah. At that point, I definitely knew the phenomenon was absolutely real. I knew we were
[0:18:48 - 0:18:53] ▶
tracking it. I knew we had, uh, lots of resources on it for some time. But getting to that final, like,
[0:18:53 - 0:18:58] ▶
step in the ladder, let's see, like, oh, and the cover-up is real. And it's inside the house.
[0:18:59 - 0:19:05] ▶
Give us a sense of you read one document that said immaculate constellation and it had some images
[0:19:05 - 0:19:10] ▶
with it. What additional information did you come across that reinforced your belief that there
[0:19:10 - 0:19:15] ▶
is a big surveillance program collecting this stuff? Well, I mean, one is just that the fact of
[0:19:15 - 0:19:23] ▶
its existence, right? In the brief, it's talking about the general mission. It's giving examples,
[0:19:23 - 0:19:27] ▶
but it's clearly talking about a collection mission. And then there's, there's programs that
[0:19:27 - 0:19:31] ▶
since become public, uh, the most relevant one in this case is the NRO Sentient Program, uh, that kind
[0:19:31 - 0:19:38] ▶
of at least in the open source way demonstrates how you don't need a massive workforce to do this
[0:19:38 - 0:19:44] ▶
anymore. You don't need, uh, buildings without windows for acres to have people taking this information,
[0:19:44 - 0:19:53] ▶
sanitizing it, making it sure it gets to the right people without the wrong things in it.
[0:19:53 - 0:19:57] ▶
And that's just on the inside. Right. Like, you don't also need exposure to a bunch of human beings with
[0:19:58 - 0:20:03] ▶
individual egos and identities to be clear, there's kind of AI siphoning off of data and
[0:20:03 - 0:20:08] ▶
information to keep it compartmentalized without spine of humanized, even within our intelligence
[0:20:08 - 0:20:13] ▶
agencies, if I'm understanding it. Yeah, it's a bit of a Janus, a two-faced god, it takes things
[0:20:13 - 0:20:18] ▶
in one end and make sure you hear what you need to hear out the other. Right. And you suspect that,
[0:20:18 - 0:20:22] ▶
uh, UAP, when that data is collected and brought in and ingested that there is a, uh, white
[0:20:22 - 0:20:29] ▶
washing or not white washing of it, there's a clarifying of that stuff to make sure the general
[0:20:29 - 0:20:35] ▶
people in Intel just can you don't see it? Absolutely. And that's a long standing practice for,
[0:20:35 - 0:20:39] ▶
especially for imagery intelligence, just, uh, nothing about UFOs, you know, back in the cold
[0:20:39 - 0:20:45] ▶
word days, if, if something, a facility or an aerospace platform was seen that, um,
[0:20:45 - 0:20:50] ▶
sorry, it was collected, uh, you know, there would be either, there'd be a full version, right,
[0:20:51 - 0:20:57] ▶
for those who needed it. Uh, but if you just needed to see the facility, but maybe not the plane,
[0:20:57 - 0:21:01] ▶
you know, those would be manually excised. Now we have, uh, tools to do that for us.
[0:21:02 - 0:21:07] ▶
Could you describe then for us, uh, how you think this works? Whatever the name for it is now.
[0:21:07 - 0:21:13] ▶
How it works? Well, dude, did we have an AI system in 2018 that could do what we're describing?
[0:21:13 - 0:21:18] ▶
Well, we know we did, um, those documents have since become public, right? Sentient. Sentient.
[0:21:19 - 0:21:23] ▶
Right. Um, and the fact that sentient was operational at those, uh, dates of the documents,
[0:21:23 - 0:21:29] ▶
mean it was operational for years before then, uh, years before 2018. You know, we've had our
[0:21:29 - 0:21:35] ▶
conversations private and otherwise about this kind of an operation. I did just seems like,
[0:21:35 - 0:21:40] ▶
gosh, there should be somebody who's collecting all this information and studying it and trying to
[0:21:40 - 0:21:44] ▶
figure it out. And the fact that he goes into the executive branch somewhere, if that's what happens
[0:21:44 - 0:21:49] ▶
to it, good. I'm glad somebody's doing it. Why is that, as you've learned about it, why is that
[0:21:50 - 0:21:54] ▶
not necessarily a good idea? Is it because it's not maybe really within the executive branch?
[0:21:54 - 0:21:59] ▶
That it's, it's an entity unto itself. Why I may not be a good idea to censor our intelligence
[0:21:59 - 0:22:05] ▶
products that are circulated within our cleared community, uh, to our service members that are
[0:22:05 - 0:22:10] ▶
on the front lines every day, uh, is because you are, uh, uh, blinding them to their environment. You
[0:22:10 - 0:22:17] ▶
are opening them to threats. You're exposing them to risks. And you are essentially inhibiting,
[0:22:17 - 0:22:22] ▶
uh, the pursuit of national security objectives by doing so. There's a reason you guys have talked
[0:22:23 - 0:22:28] ▶
to so many whistleblowers from the military who see these things. Uh, that's because partially because
[0:22:28 - 0:22:34] ▶
they're reporting it, they feel endangered by it, uh, and nothing is being done and no answers are
[0:22:34 - 0:22:39] ▶
being given. And they are, in some cases, suffering legitimate injuries. These images that would pop
[0:22:39 - 0:22:46] ▶
up here and there on, on some system on some platform, um, this AI program that was once called
[0:22:46 - 0:22:53] ▶
a macular constellation, it would grab them, take them away and then they're gone from those platforms
[0:22:53 - 0:22:57] ▶
to those places. So like the CIA or, or so, I believe where it, where it could, it, you know, the data
[0:22:57 - 0:23:04] ▶
was ingested, essentially, and a, you know, a stove pipe, right? It's locked off. It goes in,
[0:23:04 - 0:23:11] ▶
it goes into the black box and then a product comes out for what you're clear to see and what you
[0:23:12 - 0:23:16] ▶
have a need to notice. See, wouldn't somebody say, Hey, where's my image that I recorded? And then
[0:23:16 - 0:23:20] ▶
where to go? Yeah, there's a lot of people who have had, uh, is it as like that?
[0:23:20 - 0:23:24] ▶
They're, you know, we also have to remember, there's a lot of surveillance and reconnaissance
[0:23:24 - 0:23:28] ▶
platforms. Not all these are controlled by military or national intelligence. And, uh, I believe a
[0:23:28 - 0:23:34] ▶
lot of what was, you know, circulated for some time among the community was people that
[0:23:34 - 0:23:40] ▶
combatant commands or with operational units, uh, they have their own platforms, essentially,
[0:23:41 - 0:23:47] ▶
they control that data to a large degree and they were able to decide that it goes on J-Wix, not
[0:23:47 - 0:23:52] ▶
into the black box. Right. So I've heard this over and over and over that there are these
[0:23:53 - 0:23:57] ▶
pipelines of communication, let's say overseas to sent comm, but there's a squeezing point.
[0:23:57 - 0:24:03] ▶
There's a narrowing point where stuff doesn't get where it's intended to get and that that's been
[0:24:03 - 0:24:07] ▶
a problem operationally, especially when it comes to UAP stuff. People have tried to track and follow
[0:24:07 - 0:24:12] ▶
what they've submitted and it didn't get where it needed to. It's been siphoned off. To be clear,
[0:24:12 - 0:24:17] ▶
Macular Constellation is not an AI scrubbing program. Just, you know, so we, our audience understands that,
[0:24:17 - 0:24:23] ▶
we've described what Macular Constellation is, but that is an element we suspect from the literature
[0:24:24 - 0:24:29] ▶
and knowledge of what is public that there is that capability to scrub instead of like air
[0:24:29 - 0:24:35] ▶
brushing out UFOs from NASA's men. And part of the way of knowing what this is, is knowing who
[0:24:35 - 0:24:43] ▶
in the DOD at least has a primary responsibility over SAPs. OSD policy really only has control over
[0:24:44 - 0:24:51] ▶
operational SAPs and logistical SAPs. Then you will have OSD research and engineering and acquisition
[0:24:51 - 0:24:58] ▶
sustainment. They will have your science and technology SAPs that they are the people who
[0:24:58 - 0:25:03] ▶
are the gatekeepers for that world. And then you'll have your intelligence or USDI, in this case,
[0:25:04 - 0:25:10] ▶
their SAPs and Caps. Those are intelligent SAPs. They are the primary keepers of that. So
[0:25:11 - 0:25:18] ▶
the implication there is that, you know, if OSD policy is being briefed on that,
[0:25:18 - 0:25:23] ▶
Macular Constellation is a parent SAP not for a specific platform, but for a mission.
[0:25:23 - 0:25:28] ▶
I think the core of this for me is at one point, Matt realized, holy shit, this is real, this is a
[0:25:29 - 0:25:37] ▶
problem. And people are being lied to. People that need to know the truth that it's being siphoned off
[0:25:37 - 0:25:44] ▶
outside of control of what should be our representative government. And let me know if I'm saying
[0:25:44 - 0:25:49] ▶
anything that's wrong from your perspective. But I think there's a point that he hits like you and I
[0:25:49 - 0:25:53] ▶
were being fucking lied to and it's become an dangerous your first sentence in the report that we
[0:25:53 - 0:25:59] ▶
fought to get on congressional record. We'll get into it. We've fought for that together. This
[0:25:59 - 0:26:05] ▶
document is a result of a multi year internal investigation into the subject of unidentified
[0:26:05 - 0:26:10] ▶
anomalous phenomena that first sentence in your report that we fought to get into congressional
[0:26:10 - 0:26:17] ▶
record for a reason. So basically your blood goes cold, you're like, oh, fuck. And then you do
[0:26:17 - 0:26:24] ▶
a multi year internal investigation, explain that. It's your first sentence. What'd you do?
[0:26:24 - 0:26:28] ▶
At the time of that knowledge, you know, I was still in the Pentagon, but I was not a whistleblower.
[0:26:29 - 0:26:38] ▶
My investigation at that point was in the pursuit of my duties in countering WMD.
[0:26:38 - 0:26:43] ▶
Also, my professional curiosity. You went deep. Well, the report is, you know, seven categories
[0:26:44 - 0:26:51] ▶
of evidence, right? Immaculate constellation is the attention of grabber, but it's the one where
[0:26:51 - 0:26:56] ▶
there's the least amount of detail. Right. So I basically conducted my own
[0:26:56 - 0:27:03] ▶
amateur all-source analysis of what the US government specifically, the DOD, because that's what I
[0:27:04 - 0:27:11] ▶
access to, knew about UAPs. And I collected that information and sought out the way to go to Congress
[0:27:11 - 0:27:19] ▶
because they asked and provided amnesty for whistleblowers. They did not want that. They should not
[0:27:19 - 0:27:26] ▶
have written that into a law. Right. They said they did and you started to go down that path and
[0:27:26 - 0:27:30] ▶
that's our kind of next step is you're seeking whistleblower protection. Okay. So now you realize
[0:27:30 - 0:27:35] ▶
you got to do something and you feel compelled. I think we understand why he feels compelled.
[0:27:35 - 0:27:39] ▶
It's dangerous. You seek whistleblower protection officially. Is that the next step or what's the next
[0:27:39 - 0:27:45] ▶
step? The next step is to figure out how to even get to Congress. Okay. And actually a little bit
[0:27:45 - 0:27:50] ▶
before that to figure out like, am I even needed? Okay. Because at this point, you know, the
[0:27:50 - 0:27:56] ▶
legislation was there, but Grush was not. I was aware of people on the inside. Some of who have
[0:27:56 - 0:28:01] ▶
since become public, some who have not, who are the very least shared day interest in this
[0:28:01 - 0:28:07] ▶
getting a wider exposure in the intelligence community. So I started talking to people in that
[0:28:07 - 0:28:14] ▶
world and trying to quietly figure out, you know, what's the state of play is what I have valuable
[0:28:14 - 0:28:24] ▶
or needed. Right. Should I need to go forward? Right. So there was a long feeling out period there.
[0:28:24 - 0:28:29] ▶
A lot of mistakes made, but those were mistakes born of risk because, you know, this is there's no
[0:28:29 - 0:28:38] ▶
channels for this. There's official pros. I'm sure it's Eric and I'm literally in the belly of the
[0:28:38 - 0:28:43] ▶
beast. Back to a constellation, you begin to get the sense that it is in fact a constellation with a
[0:28:43 - 0:28:49] ▶
lot of individual stars or or stope pipes underneath it. Could you describe that structure, what you
[0:28:49 - 0:28:55] ▶
learned and how you learned it? So that's just more of a nature of saps apparently,
[0:28:55 - 0:29:01] ▶
right? I'm learning in how they're constructed and especially how the internal security for saps
[0:29:01 - 0:29:06] ▶
is run. I think you guys have reported on it. The budget for security is much higher than the budget
[0:29:06 - 0:29:12] ▶
for the actual research on this. And that is a very there's very real world effects as I came to learn.
[0:29:12 - 0:29:19] ▶
Describe those for example, you're telling us that you realize the guys you're working for are
[0:29:19 - 0:29:24] ▶
lie. Do you start to feel marked because of your interest in this or do you make mistakes that
[0:29:24 - 0:29:31] ▶
put you in somebody's crosshairs? So there was no indication that anything untoward was thought
[0:29:31 - 0:29:38] ▶
about me. As far as I knew nobody even knew I was interested in this stuff. You feel a sense of
[0:29:38 - 0:29:44] ▶
duty, conversation, no, you know, they've been lied to specifically. People tell you, yeah, this
[0:29:44 - 0:29:49] ▶
is an important piece to the puzzle. And you felt a sense of patriotic duty to do that. And so you
[0:29:49 - 0:29:54] ▶
took steps to that. You said, cool, they're going to give me whistleblower protections. I am a whistleblower.
[0:29:54 - 0:29:58] ▶
What happened? How did you do that? What were the steps? So I had to find them. There was no way
[0:29:59 - 0:30:08] ▶
that I could find to get into contact with Congress. I tried. So then I started talking to other
[0:30:08 - 0:30:15] ▶
people who were at that time more vocal about their intent to be a whistleblower to Congress.
[0:30:15 - 0:30:20] ▶
Internally more vocal on classified systems. Yes. Or in not so much on systems, but in classified
[0:30:20 - 0:30:27] ▶
facilities, verbal conversations. So met one person who did go forward, kind of watched that person
[0:30:27 - 0:30:40] ▶
without letting them know what I knew to see what they were doing and how it went for them.
[0:30:40 - 0:30:45] ▶
At that time, it just seemed to be the report was, I went in, talked with staff, the staff then
[0:30:46 - 0:30:52] ▶
had a separate meeting to talk with the member. And there's no paperwork, no lawyers involved,
[0:30:52 - 0:30:57] ▶
it's just you're in. You say what you have to say and you're out. That's the channel, no repercussion.
[0:30:57 - 0:31:03] ▶
That's what they said. We know all of those people as well. The assumption. There's not a SOP
[0:31:03 - 0:31:09] ▶
written out. This is what I'm learning and what's serving. And you told them what you know.
[0:31:09 - 0:31:14] ▶
Correct. Officially. Yeah. The first meeting, I wouldn't say I was especially transparent.
[0:31:15 - 0:31:21] ▶
Going in, remember, I knew it. I knew my bosses were lying. I'm talking to a permanent member
[0:31:22 - 0:31:30] ▶
of the Senate staff, not a member on the elect representative. I don't know what they're doing.
[0:31:30 - 0:31:34] ▶
Could have been bait. You would have been careful. Could have been bait. So I shared, you know,
[0:31:34 - 0:31:38] ▶
the tension grabber, the IMMCON story, and slowly worked my way around those other categories of
[0:31:39 - 0:31:47] ▶
evidence, but left it at, like, you know, I got more to say, but like, you know, we should probably,
[0:31:47 - 0:31:52] ▶
do you want me to say more like what comes next? So that meeting was had. I spoke to that person
[0:31:53 - 0:31:59] ▶
in the SCIF in the heart Senate office building. I signed my name on the log, my true name on
[0:31:59 - 0:32:05] ▶
the logbook on August 17th. We've been into that SCIF and we're enjoying that law as well.
[0:32:05 - 0:32:10] ▶
So unless that page goes missing, it's there. Yep.
[0:32:11 - 0:32:14] ▶
You got balls of church bells, man. I mean, going in there and doing this on charter territory,
[0:32:16 - 0:32:21] ▶
just trying to do the right thing. I can kind of feel it, you know, that that's a difficult thing,
[0:32:21 - 0:32:25] ▶
and you did it, and you went in. Yeah, I don't know who to trust then either. Right.
[0:32:25 - 0:32:29] ▶
So what happens next is I'm told, okay, so we're going to set you up to be clear. I spoke to a
[0:32:30 - 0:32:36] ▶
staff member from Sissy. I was told that next you will speak to a staff member from SASC,
[0:32:36 - 0:32:41] ▶
and then we will have a meeting with both SASC and Sissy with the elected members of Congress
[0:32:41 - 0:32:47] ▶
there and the two people at, or sorry, and the staffers, but it's so, it's what's supposed to happen.
[0:32:47 - 0:32:52] ▶
So I feel a little better leaving this meeting actually. The person I interact with seemed very
[0:32:53 - 0:32:58] ▶
genuine, took my concerns for safety very seriously, and perhaps oddly, but it was somewhat
[0:32:58 - 0:33:08] ▶
comforting, seemed to know more than me, because at that point, I hadn't really meant anyone who
[0:33:08 - 0:33:12] ▶
at least willingly was going to answer questions and seemed like they knew even a degree of what
[0:33:12 - 0:33:19] ▶
I knew at the time. So yeah, I felt like, okay, we're on track. There's a process here. Congress
[0:33:19 - 0:33:24] ▶
actually is getting this under control. I'll have these meetings and it's, you know,
[0:33:24 - 0:33:29] ▶
I get a handshake. Maybe a nice little thank you, and I feel like I did my duty, and I can
[0:33:31 - 0:33:36] ▶
get back to my career. They're asking you to come forward and you do it. So none of those meetings ever
[0:33:36 - 0:33:41] ▶
happen. Weeks go by or reach out. Hey, is this going on? Like, I told you I had more. I want to give
[0:33:41 - 0:33:50] ▶
that more to you so I don't have it. When can we meet? Got the runaround. And then eventually the
[0:33:50 - 0:33:59] ▶
blunts reply like, you either send me what you have in writing here on this non-official channel,
[0:33:59 - 0:34:06] ▶
or, you know, you don't, and we don't need it. So I sent that extra information. And then for many
[0:34:07 - 0:34:16] ▶
months, I thought, you know, I'm done. It's disillusioning, isn't it? That the Congress has made
[0:34:16 - 0:34:24] ▶
a show of this. Hey, we want the information. We're going to pass this legislation, protect
[0:34:24 - 0:34:27] ▶
whistleblowers, come on in, tell us this stuff. And then the channels really don't work.
[0:34:27 - 0:34:32] ▶
I came to be disillusioned at the time. I just, I came to believe like, okay, I had something that
[0:34:32 - 0:34:39] ▶
was of minor importance. I'm just really not important enough to talk to anymore. So you're the
[0:34:39 - 0:34:43] ▶
little guy. Shut up. We don't need you anymore. Just the fear, right? The fear that you're trying to
[0:34:43 - 0:34:48] ▶
do the right thing, the sensitive topic, you know people are lying. Who do you trust and all of a
[0:34:48 - 0:34:52] ▶
sudden you do what they say? There's got to be fear there. Oh, shit. Should I have opened my mouth?
[0:34:52 - 0:34:58] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. But I think at that point though, it was mostly hurt. I still thought like, I guess I'm
[0:34:58 - 0:35:02] ▶
too small, but too small. And I guess you guys got this already. When I talked to be clear, David
[0:35:02 - 0:35:07] ▶
Grush had just spoken the month before. Or I before then I was clear like, hey, you know, this
[0:35:07 - 0:35:12] ▶
meeting has been in the work for months. I saw David Grush's test. So I don't even know if you
[0:35:12 - 0:35:17] ▶
need what I have anymore. This guy seems to have it all, but yeah, they still wanted to talk.
[0:35:17 - 0:35:22] ▶
Right. Did there come a time then when you start meeting physically meeting with other people who
[0:35:22 - 0:35:28] ▶
are sort of like whistleblowers or at least making sounds like whistleblowers? Yeah. So that came
[0:35:28 - 0:35:33] ▶
about the person who connected me to Congress started trying to make a network of people in the
[0:35:33 - 0:35:40] ▶
IC and the military. You know, for what ends, it was kind of vague, but it was more of a least
[0:35:40 - 0:35:47] ▶
a community of interests, maybe looking towards like a group of current and former national security
[0:35:47 - 0:35:54] ▶
employees that can, you know, be a resource to the Congress can call on to either like, you know,
[0:35:54 - 0:35:59] ▶
speak or just to like make a statement, you know, legit getting organized. Yeah, you got to be
[0:35:59 - 0:36:03] ▶
thinking, oh, I'm going to go here from some other people, see what their experience did.
[0:36:03 - 0:36:07] ▶
And like, make me, I'm doing this right. There's another way to do it. Well, I mean, at that point,
[0:36:07 - 0:36:11] ▶
I had accepted that, you know, they didn't need my information. I didn't feel like there was
[0:36:11 - 0:36:15] ▶
anything left to do. Now I'm back at, well, I just want to know what's going on. These are the
[0:36:15 - 0:36:20] ▶
people like me sort of. Did you have to tell your bosses, hey, I'm under whistleblower protection
[0:36:20 - 0:36:27] ▶
allegedly. I went in whistleblower. Did you have to like tell your bosses at your normal job?
[0:36:27 - 0:36:31] ▶
No, I did not tell my bosses at this point in time. I was at the Department of State when I was at
[0:36:31 - 0:36:35] ▶
whistleblower to be very clear. I was a whistleblower when I, I'm sorry, I was at Department of State
[0:36:35 - 0:36:41] ▶
employee when I reached out to Congress and I was at Department of State employee when I spoke to
[0:36:41 - 0:36:46] ▶
Congress. So I get another job within FFRDC. I was going to work at DAHQ doing nuclear force planning,
[0:36:46 - 0:36:54] ▶
pretty cool job. Yeah. And then last minute, a job posting goes up from the Department of State,
[0:36:54 - 0:37:00] ▶
and I'm told about it. I kind of knew some of the people at the State Department program.
[0:37:00 - 0:37:04] ▶
So that was a bit of a draw. If I feel like I need some protection,
[0:37:05 - 0:37:09] ▶
this could be, this could work out well in the long term. So at the time, it was kind of self-interest
[0:37:12 - 0:37:16] ▶
there, whereas like, yeah, if I need to, you know, cover my ass and write something and have it
[0:37:16 - 0:37:23] ▶
not be redacted, this is a good place to do it. That's pre-planning, right? And that comes from
[0:37:24 - 0:37:29] ▶
a sense of a worry, a sense of fear in a way that you have to protect yourself, State Department's
[0:37:29 - 0:37:34] ▶
good place. You're already thinking ahead. You're not doing pre-pub so you can write a book or
[0:37:34 - 0:37:39] ▶
be in a mood where you're doing pre-pub to protect your ass. You got a new job at the State Department.
[0:37:39 - 0:37:44] ▶
You have in the back of your mind, look if I decide to take it a step further, this is a good
[0:37:44 - 0:37:48] ▶
place to do that, right? What's your job at State Department and did you like it? That's so my job was
[0:37:48 - 0:37:53] ▶
on paper sort of similar to what I had done at the Pentagon working in countering WMD.
[0:37:54 - 0:38:01] ▶
That's a cool job. Why was you cool? So the State Department was mainly the draw, I mean,
[0:38:01 - 0:38:05] ▶
is to travel, and is to travel to, you know, countries that I wanted to in my case in Europe.
[0:38:05 - 0:38:12] ▶
You know, you're interacting with the universities, industry groups, government sort of associations.
[0:38:14 - 0:38:21] ▶
Much more slower speed, much less dark in grim and in the real world as it were.
[0:38:24 - 0:38:32] ▶
Was there ever a period where you think, and maybe I'm just leaving this UAP stuff behind me?
[0:38:32 - 0:38:37] ▶
Oh, no, no. You were done.
[0:38:37 - 0:38:41] ▶
Well, I mean, the subject matter obviously, and then knowing what I knew about the situation and
[0:38:41 - 0:38:48] ▶
government, I don't think it's something that, you know, you have that level of knowledge that
[0:38:48 - 0:38:55] ▶
you can leave behind morally. You couldn't. Yeah, morally and also it's still to this day is
[0:38:55 - 0:39:01] ▶
endlessly fascinating, right? But my job had, would have nothing to do with that.
[0:39:01 - 0:39:05] ▶
And yeah, I, it felt like at this point again, I had not gone to Congress, but I had met the people
[0:39:06 - 0:39:16] ▶
who either were going to or had felt like, you know, okay, somebody's
[0:39:16 - 0:39:19] ▶
that's handled. People seem more senior than me who have connections and know what they're
[0:39:20 - 0:39:24] ▶
talking about. They got this so I can rest easy. What did go?
[0:39:24 - 0:39:29] ▶
What, when did you read the transcripts of Sean Kirkpatrick speaking to the senators?
[0:39:30 - 0:39:34] ▶
Was that at the State Department? No, that was at USDI. I'm just trying to figure out what point
[0:39:34 - 0:39:39] ▶
you decided. All right, you know, I tried to go to Congress. Obviously, you knew that Aero wasn't
[0:39:39 - 0:39:45] ▶
the way to go. So you had to make a decision at some point. Oh, yeah, I'm going to take some action
[0:39:45 - 0:39:50] ▶
some way. Yeah. So the, the NDA language comes out. I recognize how serious that is I'm talking
[0:39:50 - 0:39:57] ▶
with these people, even though now I'm at States, I'm still tracking what's going on.
[0:39:57 - 0:40:03] ▶
And start getting the, the scuttle but that, you know, somebody big is going to come forward.
[0:40:04 - 0:40:10] ▶
And, you know, the implications of what they had to say are like not good. And they're making
[0:40:11 - 0:40:17] ▶
these people who are more senior than me feel or talk about like, you know, that there's corruption
[0:40:17 - 0:40:23] ▶
involved, that there is conspiracy, criminal conspiracy involved. Nothing, it's being whispered.
[0:40:23 - 0:40:29] ▶
But you know, things start to feel like, oh, maybe this isn't so just a cold war, black program
[0:40:30 - 0:40:36] ▶
that was allowed to go on for too long and now is just coming in from the cold all nice and
[0:40:36 - 0:40:40] ▶
cute like something much darker. Right. You see people like Dave Grush come forward and get
[0:40:40 - 0:40:47] ▶
slimed, you know, that there are other whistleblowers who have come forward bits and pieces.
[0:40:47 - 0:40:52] ▶
There's, you have to realize at some point there's a lot of risk in taking action.
[0:40:53 - 0:40:57] ▶
Yeah, I mean, I went forwards in such close proximity to Grush that I didn't have, at that time,
[0:40:58 - 0:41:04] ▶
I hadn't observed, you know, the blowback. It looked like from the outside that, you know,
[0:41:04 - 0:41:11] ▶
he had some friction on his way there, but looked like he got to Congress was saying the right
[0:41:11 - 0:41:18] ▶
things and Congress was going to do something about his momentum. There was momentum. And, you know,
[0:41:18 - 0:41:24] ▶
I, again, at that time, I was already in talks to go talk to Congress. Just at that point,
[0:41:24 - 0:41:32] ▶
not so much like, you know, out of fear and desperation, just as like, you know, they're asking
[0:41:32 - 0:41:39] ▶
for people. It seems like they needed. Right. No matter how small it seems like it's important.
[0:41:39 - 0:41:44] ▶
And this person told me it was important. They bowed this person I met with, I met with one on one.
[0:41:44 - 0:41:48] ▶
I told them about this use app, which at the time, you know, I still to myself, I was like, I don't
[0:41:49 - 0:41:54] ▶
know if it's real or not. You say you've been to Congress and you know these things firsthand.
[0:41:54 - 0:41:58] ▶
Like is this it said it was? And yeah, so how the, those interactions that we've already been over.
[0:41:58 - 0:42:06] ▶
Where do things start going for me? What's the phrase here?
[0:42:08 - 0:42:15] ▶
More serious. Is after Congress, after, sorry, after speaking the Congress as a whistleblower,
[0:42:16 - 0:42:24] ▶
I interact with, I continue to interact with this person who was trying, or at least they told me
[0:42:25 - 0:42:31] ▶
they were trying to start a fund for whistleblowers to help get people out of the legacy program who
[0:42:31 - 0:42:36] ▶
wanted to speak but couldn't because they're both afraid for their life and their livelihood.
[0:42:36 - 0:42:40] ▶
I thought, well, there's something I can help with. Good writing paper.
[0:42:41 - 0:42:44] ▶
You know, we'll make this organization and I can contribute there. And so the, the honey moon phase of
[0:42:46 - 0:42:53] ▶
you know, I did my, I spoke my piece and now it looks like I'm helping the guys and things aren't that
[0:42:54 - 0:42:59] ▶
serious continues after August of 2023. The result of that is, sorry, the result of
[0:42:59 - 0:43:07] ▶
grouch and all that. We get the UAP Disclosure Act or the attempt to do it. And it's so, I think when
[0:43:07 - 0:43:14] ▶
that failed was the first blow to that hope that you know, things would be handled constitutionally.
[0:43:14 - 0:43:25] ▶
Constitutionally. Is there a point at which you see, let's call it the whistleblower community,
[0:43:25 - 0:43:31] ▶
a small group of, fairly small group of people who have different stories that you become
[0:43:31 - 0:43:36] ▶
disillusioned with them and with the, their media contacts who are being fed bits and pieces of
[0:43:36 - 0:43:43] ▶
information. Now yes, then no. There also wasn't as much media penetration or connection
[0:43:43 - 0:43:51] ▶
with everyone of tournament in those circles, at least that I was you know, a part of.
[0:43:51 - 0:43:56] ▶
In those days, did you consider going to, no, no, I know outreach, no connections to media and I was
[0:43:56 - 0:44:04] ▶
not pursuing connections to media at all. And you know, to be fair, you're kind of navigating all
[0:44:04 - 0:44:09] ▶
of this stuff, you're seeking advice from people trying to figure out, yeah, what do I do? And
[0:44:09 - 0:44:15] ▶
and you're, you're a smart guy and you, you look at the world and you start reaching out to a couple
[0:44:15 - 0:44:19] ▶
people or they're being introduced to you like myself. And you're kind of feeling it out too. Like,
[0:44:19 - 0:44:25] ▶
you know, what is the best path forward here? Yeah, that's. So sort of what happens next is the UAPDA
[0:44:25 - 0:44:32] ▶
fails. And before that, we get word, it's going to fail. Right. And this person tells me that
[0:44:32 - 0:44:38] ▶
Congress needs people to start fires. Right. To try to save the UAPDA. I ask him, are you serious?
[0:44:38 - 0:44:45] ▶
Is Congress has told you to ask people to make some noise? Yeah. And try to save this thing.
[0:44:45 - 0:44:51] ▶
That person told me yes. And so then I started trying to find some media personalities who
[0:44:51 - 0:45:00] ▶
could potentially be trusted. One of my next steps, which was, well, now I got to get something
[0:45:00 - 0:45:05] ▶
cleared. But then set back in a different way, which was, well, shit, we still have all these people
[0:45:05 - 0:45:12] ▶
apparently who are in danger. There's no help from the government. There's no help from Congress.
[0:45:12 - 0:45:17] ▶
There's no help from arrow. Arrow. There's no help from people who say they care about humanity.
[0:45:17 - 0:45:24] ▶
But their actions don't bear that out. So back to square one. And for me, square one is going back
[0:45:25 - 0:45:31] ▶
and re-engaging with Congress. So I reach out in that, yeah, I guess this would be winter of
[0:45:31 - 0:45:41] ▶
24, 23 around there, back to my sissy connection. And that person I learned had since moved on.
[0:45:42 - 0:45:53] ▶
And he connected me to the current person, current staff member of force sissy, who's handled this.
[0:45:53 - 0:45:58] ▶
Arrange the meeting in a few months because I told them, hey, I'm going to just, first of all,
[0:45:59 - 0:46:03] ▶
I asked like, hey, did you get any of my testimony? The answer was no. Or at least that was the
[0:46:03 - 0:46:09] ▶
claimed answer. So I said, well, did you get any notes? Like, I know he took notes. Did you get
[0:46:09 - 0:46:14] ▶
notes of what I said? Nah. So I said, okay, you know what? I'm going to write this all up for you
[0:46:14 - 0:46:18] ▶
guys. You have it and you can't lose it. And you're going to guarantee to me that this is not just
[0:46:18 - 0:46:24] ▶
going to stay with sissy. It is going to go to sask and it is going to go to house. It is going to
[0:46:24 - 0:46:27] ▶
go to hipsy, like it was promised before, but never did those acronyms, meaning for the senate
[0:46:27 - 0:46:33] ▶
committees and the health command zones that would deal with these classified sensitive stuff.
[0:46:33 - 0:46:36] ▶
You're like, fuck this. I'm writing it all down, writing down, I'm going to make it really your
[0:46:36 - 0:46:41] ▶
problem. Right. And you gave me amnesty. Right. You want this? I'm giving it to you. Right.
[0:46:41 - 0:46:47] ▶
So I spend some weeks laboriously typing this out. Hidden drives on encrypted drives,
[0:46:48 - 0:47:01] ▶
using open source software, only able, only opening it when I know I'm not connected to anything
[0:47:01 - 0:47:06] ▶
on a new device, not a very fun drafting process. Right. And that's just the technical aspects of
[0:47:06 - 0:47:14] ▶
trying to be secure about it. At this point, and I'm indefinitely under no illusions that the
[0:47:14 - 0:47:20] ▶
US government, some capacity knows about me, I'm mainly concerned about foreign intelligence.
[0:47:20 - 0:47:25] ▶
And they're their possibility of collecting on me. I'm in DC, spy capital of the world.
[0:47:26 - 0:47:31] ▶
I was very concerned about that and wanted to do even the writing of this the correct way.
[0:47:31 - 0:47:39] ▶
So during that time, draft this, I observe what's going on, continues to go on. The final death of
[0:47:40 - 0:47:54] ▶
UAP, UAP disclosure act one and attempt to get the second one, which is totally watered down
[0:47:54 - 0:48:02] ▶
and not even worth our time to consider. And I go and I have the meeting with Sissy,
[0:48:02 - 0:48:08] ▶
give them the paper. It's a much longer version of the report, both in my analysis and the level
[0:48:11 - 0:48:18] ▶
detail, additional detail in the evidentiary, evidentiary sections, including the various
[0:48:18 - 0:48:25] ▶
compartments and programs that they could themselves look into to access the same information that
[0:48:25 - 0:48:32] ▶
I saw, which is ridiculous that Congress has no access to. Gave all that to them.
[0:48:32 - 0:48:40] ▶
Then really had to press to even get to speak to Sask, eventually got to Sask,
[0:48:40 - 0:48:48] ▶
permit staff, I believe the Rayburn office building. Then after I had met with both Sissy and Sask,
[0:48:48 - 0:48:57] ▶
I, after I met with Sissy, but before I finally met with Sask, I submitted a version of this
[0:48:57 - 0:49:05] ▶
report to the State Department. After I gave it to them the first time, they said thank you very
[0:49:05 - 0:49:14] ▶
much. And then never heard again. Didn't even think of it. They're asking for you to come and
[0:49:14 - 0:49:22] ▶
they're asking for this and you're. So I decided to take open doors. Exactly. Please take this.
[0:49:22 - 0:49:27] ▶
Exactly. So I decided to make myself a little dangerous and said, hey, I'm going to submit this
[0:49:27 - 0:49:32] ▶
for prepub review to and I'm going to brief my leadership at State Department on this,
[0:49:32 - 0:49:39] ▶
which it did. And I then after briefing them, I submitted it to prepub review.
[0:49:39 - 0:49:44] ▶
And that's at the State Department. Met with Sask provided a copy of the full report and at that
[0:49:45 - 0:49:52] ▶
time, the cleared one before that ever reached any media sources so that they knew what the media
[0:49:52 - 0:49:59] ▶
would see before anyone else. You know, doing what I thought was only fair, you know, you want
[0:49:59 - 0:50:05] ▶
your leaders. You want control. You want this to go the right way. I'm giving you full insight
[0:50:05 - 0:50:11] ▶
into what my words are. You can tell me at any time to stop or what to change in my words.
[0:50:11 - 0:50:17] ▶
Nothing transparent, but also you ain't fucking around anymore. Right. Yeah. No push back at all.
[0:50:17 - 0:50:22] ▶
No. None except for not after the sourcing never getting access to house at that time.
[0:50:23 - 0:50:29] ▶
You make this and no access to members still. And that's where we start a process. But
[0:50:29 - 0:50:35] ▶
right. So you make the submission. You get an answer back up. What's it say?
[0:50:35 - 0:50:39] ▶
Uh, you know, I get no red actions requested. And essentially a one word, sorry, one sentence answer,
[0:50:40 - 0:50:49] ▶
you may proceed. Not exactly something that gives you a lot of confidence at all as well.
[0:50:50 - 0:50:57] ▶
What I mean, it sounds like they're saying go ahead. We have no problem with it. Yeah. I mean,
[0:50:57 - 0:51:01] ▶
we have the emails. You can read between the lines and also the tone. Certainly nobody there was thrilled
[0:51:01 - 0:51:08] ▶
about what I was doing. Right. But they were stopping you. And you know, a lot of people hear about
[0:51:08 - 0:51:12] ▶
dops or in that kind of thing. And this is a very interesting way to go about it. You get pre-pubbed
[0:51:12 - 0:51:18] ▶
through State Department, which later Sean Kirkpatrick and became public made some disparaging
[0:51:18 - 0:51:22] ▶
comments about what gets passed through when it comes to going through State Department.
[0:51:22 - 0:51:27] ▶
Doesn't matter. Basically, it's a process for you to cover your ass and inform everybody.
[0:51:27 - 0:51:32] ▶
And say, I'm not messing around. Here we go. And you get it all written out. You get approved.
[0:51:33 - 0:51:38] ▶
And we're one sentence, you know, email back that we've seen. And you don't have high level of
[0:51:38 - 0:51:45] ▶
confidence, right? Of like, well, what does that mean? Can I move forward? So there you are.
[0:51:45 - 0:51:49] ▶
What happens next? I fly out to California and I meet with Michael Schellenberger.
[0:51:49 - 0:51:54] ▶
In part three of our interview with the author of the Immaculate Constellation Report,
[0:51:54 - 0:51:58] ▶
what is it like to have absolute knowledge that not only UFOs are real, that we've been hiding
[0:51:58 - 0:52:08] ▶
that, that our government has controlled that information away from the base human population.
[0:52:08 - 0:52:16] ▶
What I have learned is that we live in a dream. It carefully constructed reality. We
[0:52:17 - 0:52:25] ▶
make use of a science that is tightly controlled and suppressed and distorted.
[0:52:27 - 0:52:33] ▶
Who are they? Why are they here? Why don't they show us what's going on?
[0:52:33 - 0:52:36] ▶
I think I have a good degree of confidence that the reason they're here is us.
[0:52:38 - 0:52:47] ▶
I think life, especially sentient life, it's a precious thing.
[0:52:48 - 0:52:53] ▶
And I think to some, it might be a resource.
[0:52:55 - 0:52:58] ▶