2,554 segments
We see these things as embodied.
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We see, again, gods, demons, angels, whatever, coming to us with a body, even though they don't really have a body.
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It's something about the way our minds have to portray whatever it is.
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And that would explain the diversity and, you know, why some are tall, some are short, some look like lizards, some look like insectoids, some look like, you know, it goes on and on and on.
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General McCasland, this, you know, general who worked at Wright-Patt, who is apparently tied up with like the whole UFO stuff, went missing.
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A retired two-star Air Force general has vanished without a choice.
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I appreciate that there's a community that wants to go down the rabbit hole of UFOs.
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Just because it's crazy doesn't mean it's not true.
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And a lot has sort of transpired in terms of conspiracy around his disappearance.
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But one thing that he said was him relaying the information that if you wanted to understand the phenomenon, you would need to look into Greek mythology.
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And he puts specific emphasis on the Prometheus myth structure.
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So what he does is he takes fire, he brings it to the humans, you know, and then he gets punished basically eternally for taking a divine power and bringing it down to humanity without permission.
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There was probably some kind of entity, higher power, that at some point came here and either gave us something or did something or seeded something.
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From within the military-industrial complex, there are other people who have very similar lines of interest, right?
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Like Semivan talks about Neoplatonism.
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Colonel Nell talks about all of this esoteric and spiritual stuff.
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Jim Ryder, who was the VP of something at Lockheed.
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So it's not some weird one-off.
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There does seem to be an interest, just like we were saying before, among not just people like Heineck who are going down these rabbit holes and they become very esoteric and spiritual, but people from within the military-industrial complex.
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So I don't really have a sighting, but my father was in the Air Force between 1952 and 1956.
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He served in the Korean War and he told us a story that he was put on a cargo plane with another Air Force personnel.
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And they were handcuffed to a metal object that was covered by a tarp.
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And they weren't supposed to look at it, but they did look at it.
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But to them, it only looked like a solid chunk of round metal with no seams or anything like that.
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And after they took this to a number of different bases and came back, they were told to never talk about it.
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And in 2011, my father died from glioblastoma, which is a very rare brain cancer.
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And I believe that that is the reason why he died from that.
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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my absolute honor and pleasure to welcome not only a fellow euphonaut and researcher of the esoteric and the phenomenon, but also a good friend.
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This is the host of the Third Eye Drops podcast, Michael Phillip.
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The honor is mine, my friend.
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I'm super stoked to be here and I think I accept most of those adjectives at the very least.
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Perhaps euphonaut being the most important one.
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I just love that word.
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Not makes pretty much everything sound dope.
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What about paranaut?
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That should be a thing.
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What would that mean?
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Like you're an astronaut of the paranormal.
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Moved on quickly from that.
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It seemed like we have more novel things to talk about than word mashing.
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Well, word mashing seems to be one of your strong suits, I think.
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Your podcast covers a wide variety of philosophy, science at times, esotericism, sort of the occult,
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but also UFOs, anything from psi abilities and remote viewing and that type of thing to
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psionics, having people who were summoning UFOs.
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For people who aren't familiar with third eye drops and what you do, how would you sum up,
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how would you summarize your podcast?
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Well, like I was just saying before we were recording, like I'm aware of the fact that
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I don't really have a thing.
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People don't look at me and think, oh, Michael's the whatever guy.
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And I sort of like that because I think if you're trying to sense make, particularly with
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high weirdness and the sort of fringes of reality, trying to understand the mysteries
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of consciousness, I don't really want to be cornered into any one position or any one
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Like I don't think you can truly even start to approach the truth being in that kind of
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a philosophical position.
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You're pigeonholing.
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And particularly when you're talking about things, again, I'm going to spam the word
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mercurial because I love it.
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But when you're trying to understand things as mercurial, as the phenomenon or altered
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states of consciousness, or get at some of these questions that are at the ground level
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of reality having to do with human consciousness and stuff, I think you've got to be approaching
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it from a sort of multidisciplinary kind of polymath disposition of loosely held ideas.
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Being willing to both find your ideas that you find sacred and are worth sort of building
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a foundation on, but also just playing with ones lightly.
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They're like, this might be a thing.
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It might not be a thing.
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I think that's a healthy way to approach it.
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And something I've found myself more and more, I found myself doing more and more, it's come
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to my attention that this whole thing is kind of silly, you know, is what I've pretty much
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resigned to now, you know, where a lot of people, they take this very seriously and it
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is a serious matter.
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It's perhaps the most serious matter, but at the same time, it is completely absurd and
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at times whimsical and tricky.
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The phenomenon presents itself in so many sort of absurdly bizarre ways that it's hard for
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you to, as someone who's trying to sense make, be like, oh, this is a purely physical, these
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That's what we're dealing with here.
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The Zetas, the reptilians, the Nordics, this is what's happening.
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It seems to be so much stranger than all of that.
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And the leading researchers in this field, once they've gathered enough, you know, time
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under their belt of researching, they all conclude sort of the same thing.
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And whether it's Grant Cameron or Jacques Vallée or any of these other, you know, quote, you
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know, sort of philosopher type researchers, they end up saying that, yeah, there's something
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that we're interacting with.
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That is interacting with our consciousness at a very, very fundamental level.
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And making us see things or behave a certain way, it's super strange.
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And that's why I'm excited to talk to you today.
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Because this stuff is like right up your alley.
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Yeah, no, this is my favorite shit to talk about.
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And, you know, J. Allen Hynek, another great example of somebody who was totally skeptical,
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pretty straight and narrow scientist.
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You and I both spoke with his son, Paul.
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And it's pretty widely known that he became friends with Jacques Vallée, then became a
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Paul even said that he followed the Rosicrucian sort of burial rituals when he died.
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So, yeah, man, it has a way of turning people toward the higher, but also seemingly making
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them more skeptical of any of the mainstream ways of making sense of it.
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I have no doubt that there are people who, you know, converted from atheism to Christianity
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because they were convinced of some sort of, you know, narrative brought about by contact
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But it seems like the vast majority of people, John Keel's another example.
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In Operation Trojan Horse, he says, I was an avowed atheist.
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I didn't believe in anything.
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And then through dealing with the high strangeness of the phenomenon over the course of many,
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many years, he became like highly philosophical and spiritual while also still rejecting a
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lot of the mainstream, you know, religious dogma.
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So, yeah, it puts you in this weird position where you're certain that there's something
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more, but you're not certain what it is.
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What percentage do you think can be attributed to these researchers or these people later in
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their life coming to this conclusion being a result of them just kind of throwing their
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I mean, there's that.
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I think there's also a predisposition of people as they age to get more introspective and try
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to look for those kinds of answers because, you know, you know, Jung would point this out
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all the time, right?
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You're sort of early on in life.
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You're trying to make a name for yourself.
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You're trying to elevate the ego through accomplishments with career, family, et cetera, et cetera.
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And then there's that natural inward introspective turn that occurs.
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And oftentimes that leads to big spiritual questions.
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And if you're going through that and you're also interacting with something like UFOs, I
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think that becomes a convenient sort of psycho-spiritual scapegoat in some ways.
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But I don't think it's necessarily wrong because I do think that it is emblematic of deeper
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truths and it could be emanations from a higher reality that we're dealing with.
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So it could, it kind of is a good gateway drug in a lot of ways, I think, to ask bigger
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questions and confront, I don't know, deeper questions that are very difficult questions
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And I don't even know if they're questions that we can answer, but I do think they're
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totally worth interacting with.
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Totally worth asking.
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Um, I often find myself thinking about how, you know, I don't think it's a coincidence
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that towards the end of your life, you become more introspective.
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We're dealing with imminent death with finality, right?
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And so you have to sense make, I mean, even I think subconsciously you're being guided towards
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believing that there is a reason you have to be right.
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Because you've spent all this time and now you're about to leave.
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It's, it's, it's hard for someone at that stage in their life to hold on to the nuts
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and bolts and be like, there's nothing after and it's just aliens.
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You know what I mean?
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Like that pressure of, oh, I'm, I'm about to move on obviously brings about, you know,
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some deep introspection and, and some, you know, spooky thoughts on the nature of reality.
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Um, but then again, you know, I'm 42 and I'm starting to think about this stuff.
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So it has nothing to do, you know, with death at least just yet, perhaps maybe it does,
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but, um, yeah, I do, I do find myself sort of picking up what they're putting down,
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you know, at this, uh, early age.
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Well, that time in midlife, I really think anytime it can start happening anytime after
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And I think some people are just predisposed to that way of thinking from the jump.
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I know I was asking big questions very early on in life and not getting satisfying answers,
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which is part of the reason I went down all of these different rabbit holes because there
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wasn't any one thing that I found really satisfying, but I found the sort of search very
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Um, but speaking of Jung, you know, he would talk about, like I said, he would talk about
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this inward turn, but he also, I think wrote one of the most interesting and to this day
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important books on the UFO phenomenon because he recognized the potential for exactly what
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we're talking about.
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That, um, basically that this phenomenon could be a way to project all kinds of different
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Like a psychological archetype.
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So, so the UFO phenomenon can take on all of these different sorts of guises depending
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And that sounds reductive and like he's trying to boil it down to personal psychology.
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But you have to remember with Jung, he believed in a collective unconscious as well.
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So for him, it's always kind of a meeting in the middle of the personal psyche and the sort
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of meta psyche of all of humanity.
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So you have to both look at the UFO phenomenon from as an emanation from that collective unconscious
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and the person's own mind putting meaning and symbols and projecting their own shit onto
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So, yeah, it's, I do still find that to be a hugely relevant point in whatever it is
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that we're interacting with when it comes to the phenomenon, because clearly, um, it
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might've been you that was pointing this out to me or I, somebody else on the show, but
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essentially making the point that either we have to be dealing with thousands of different
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Well, I mean, I just think the idea is kind of ridiculous that we're dealing with one
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other thing, because if it's one other thing, that's like one in a trillion, you know, that's
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one thing that's coming here or that's sort of been here and where did they come from prior
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So the idea that it's just one other thing, it might as well be a number of other things,
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a thousand other things, or just us.
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Like those are the things that make most sense to me.
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If it's just, oh, it's just us and the grays.
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I'm like, is it really like it, it feels like it's either more than that or less than
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Uh, just one, I don't know, to me feels, feels absurd.
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Well, you know, I'm fond of the idea that, okay, for one, I'll make the, I'll make the
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caveat of saying, yes, I do totally think it's possible that there are physical beings
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that are manifesting here or are literally from somewhere else.
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I do think that that's possible.
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But what I think is more possible is that it's some kind of strange alchemy between the
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personal psyche and whatever the true phenomena is.
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Whatever this interdimensional, uh, cloak is that we're living under or whatever.
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And, and this is something that's been talked about.
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I mean, I could just list people off.
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Like, um, if anybody wants to get super nerdy, read On the Mysteries by Iamblichus, who's this
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And he's talking about interacting with Daimones and angels and gods and all these other beings,
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uh, in like, you know, late two hundreds AD.
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And he's talking about how these, the truth of these beings is that they're essentially
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Un, definable, ungrockable by the human mind, light beings from a higher reality.
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But because of the way we're shaped and the way our mind, um, constructs reality, we see
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these things as embodied, we see, again, gods, demons, angels, whatever, coming to us with
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a body, even though they don't really have a body.
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It's something about the way our minds have to portray whatever it is.
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So I think there could easily be something like that going on with the phenomenon as well.
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And that would explain the diversity and, you know, why some are tall, some are short,
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some look like lizards, some look like, uh, insectoids, some look like, you know, go, it
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goes on and on and on.
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And it depends who is seeing them too.
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Like a, a general might end up seeing these giant, terrifying insects where a, perhaps,
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I don't know, like, I, I just think that, yeah, it really depends on what your, maybe
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what your psyche is making of these things.
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And I often wonder what I would see if that was the case.
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And, and what I would see before I knew this versus what I would see now, would it be different?
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Um, you know, there is also this idea, you know, we hear the, the talk of like the lady,
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From the Bledsoe's and stuff.
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And again, that's just some in, instantiation of an idea, um, that to them makes sense that
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perhaps if seen from someone else might resemble a reptile.
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And a reptile is interesting too, because the snake in, according to Carl Jung was the
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sort of psychological archetype of fear.
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And then you have like, um, you go back to like the Naga, Quetzalcoatl, like all these
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other, and it seems, and even in sort of, uh, native, um, uh, lore, snakes are kind of
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really feared and revered.
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And in fact, seeing a snake's belly is like the worst luck you could ever have.
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And so snakes embody already psychologically in our own perception, in our just purely
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survival instinct, a, a threat, a like, oh, that stay away from that.
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If you see a snake, it's very scary.
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And so, you know, that could just be some type of physical manifestation of a deep seated
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fear that we project onto something we don't understand.
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And then they become sort of reptilian in our eyes.
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Dude, serpent symbolism to me, again, this might be a very niche thing to nerd out about,
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but serpent symbolism to me is very interesting because I think from a more modern POV, we
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tend to think of the serpent as this malevolent being, right?
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Like the serpent in the garden of Eden, you know, uh, the, the great serpent Leviathan
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or all these very, uh, Satan or Luciferian adjacent things.
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But in the ancient world, there were very, there were like benevolent serpents as well.
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So in the, like in the Egyptian myth, mythos or spiritual system, you had both positive and
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negative serpents, like serpents, uh, who were aligned with chaos and destruction.
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And then serpents that were servants of Ra and creation in, um, like, I think that one
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of the patron deities of, um, uh, Alexandria in the Greco Roman tradition was this thing
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called Agatha Daimon.
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And if you look, and if you look him up, he's like a serpent with a crown and he's this,
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like, very benevolent, um, patron God or Daimon of this great city state that was sort of the,
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you know, the highest culture melting pot of all these different philosophies coming together.
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And then, um, you know, like the Caduceus, the serpents coiling the Caduceus are supposed
[0:18:28 - 0:18:32] ▶
to be somehow representative of, uh, divine wisdom or, uh, creative energy or something
[0:18:32 - 0:18:37] ▶
So yeah, it's, it's such a complex symbol with such a long history.
[0:18:40 - 0:18:44] ▶
And I often know the wings-
[0:18:44 - 0:18:45] ▶
And the ones with wings as well is like-
[0:18:45 - 0:18:46] ▶
Is, is, is a different meaning as well in that, yeah, some type of celestial wisdom.
[0:18:47 - 0:18:51] ▶
Um, if you look at Quetzalcoatl or, or those types, and then, you know, throughout many UFO and entity
[0:18:52 - 0:18:59] ▶
encounters, um, they don't have wings, but the emblems that are on some of these beings
[0:18:59 - 0:19:05] ▶
feature snakes with wings multiple times.
[0:19:05 - 0:19:07] ▶
Um, which is in a triangle and a snake with wings, very sim- I mean, the symbolic nature
[0:19:08 - 0:19:14] ▶
of the, of the emblems or insignias that are found on these, you know, creatures or these
[0:19:14 - 0:19:21] ▶
beings ties in really neatly with our cultural history as well, which I think is interesting.
[0:19:21 - 0:19:27] ▶
The lore is failing me now, but isn't there some story of some experience or I remember
[0:19:27 - 0:19:34] ▶
the beat of the story where it was one of the versions of the story where it's humans
[0:19:34 - 0:19:39] ▶
and ETs working together.
[0:19:39 - 0:19:41] ▶
And there was, I wanna say a caduceus on the suit, but I don't remember what story this
[0:19:42 - 0:19:47] ▶
Yeah, this is actually, I think you're getting two of them mixed up, but, uh, because the
[0:19:48 - 0:19:52] ▶
being that you're referring to, I think was from Bill Herman, uh, Bill Herman in the, in the,
[0:19:52 - 0:19:56] ▶
in the late seventies.
[0:19:56 - 0:19:58] ▶
Had a few abduction cases.
[0:19:59 - 0:20:00] ▶
He was the one who took some of the clearest photos of UFOs ever taken.
[0:20:00 - 0:20:03] ▶
Um, you know, whether or not those are real, I don't know what to tell you, but he took
[0:20:04 - 0:20:07] ▶
these photos and he has a story to go along with it.
[0:20:07 - 0:20:09] ▶
And he gets taken aboard and these small beings with these sponge-like, the spongy sort of
[0:20:09 - 0:20:15] ▶
skin, pale skin, large heads, kind of like these guys, but, uh, almond colored eyes and
[0:20:15 - 0:20:21] ▶
sort of rust colored track suits with this emblem.
[0:20:21 - 0:20:25] ▶
But those exact beings are described to the T by Travis Walton, who in his encounter did
[0:20:25 - 0:20:34] ▶
have humanoids as well.
[0:20:34 - 0:20:36] ▶
And so I think you might be mixing the, like maybe the two cases up.
[0:20:36 - 0:20:38] ▶
Yeah, it could well be.
[0:20:38 - 0:20:39] ▶
I mean, I asked Travis as well, I was like, do you remember seeing an insignia?
[0:20:39 - 0:20:42] ▶
He's like, no, I, you know, wasn't looking for that.
[0:20:42 - 0:20:44] ▶
I was busy trying to get the fuck out of Dodge, you know?
[0:20:44 - 0:20:47] ▶
Um, being kidnapped and trying to like fend off a bunch of aliens with a, with a clear
[0:20:48 - 0:20:53] ▶
Um, but yeah, it comes up there, but it comes up also in the West, uh, on the West Coast,
[0:20:54 - 0:21:01] ▶
there's another case of this Hispanic gentleman who was taken by these beings who had like slit-like
[0:21:01 - 0:21:07] ▶
eyes and they wore like a one piece gray suit with like some type of ear box with an antenna.
[0:21:07 - 0:21:13] ▶
Um, and I think that was a, like, a, a, a, a, a, a logo, and they were saying some of
[0:21:14 - 0:21:19] ▶
So I don't know whether that's, again, you know, what is that?
[0:21:20 - 0:21:23] ▶
What are we talking about here?
[0:21:23 - 0:21:24] ▶
Are we talking about complete confabulation or hallucination or projection embodiment by
[0:21:24 - 0:21:31] ▶
And the, the, the Greek stuff is interesting as well, because I remember that there are
[0:21:34 - 0:21:38] ▶
some big cases where apparently there was Greek.
[0:21:38 - 0:21:41] ▶
Was it the, it might've been Kingman or Rendlesburg?
[0:21:41 - 0:21:43] ▶
Or both that may have had Greek or like literal Greek-like symbols?
[0:21:44 - 0:21:48] ▶
Well, it looked like Greek.
[0:21:48 - 0:21:49] ▶
Uh, the stuff at Rendlesham, um, and the stuff I think at Kecksburg.
[0:21:50 - 0:21:54] ▶
And, um, but Greek symbolism looks like alien writing as well.
[0:21:55 - 0:21:58] ▶
You know, it's very similar.
[0:21:59 - 0:22:00] ▶
Either that or very, um, sort of Chinese or Japanese looking like, um,
[0:22:03 - 0:22:06] ▶
Cause I know, uh, Sheehan drew it out for you.
[0:22:07 - 0:22:09] ▶
Sheehan drew it out for you.
[0:22:09 - 0:22:10] ▶
He drew it out for me too, where it sort of looked almost like Kana.
[0:22:10 - 0:22:13] ▶
That's how Bob describes it.
[0:22:18 - 0:22:19] ▶
Um, Korean features that as well.
[0:22:21 - 0:22:22] ▶
And if you, if you look at the, uh, carrot documents, I don't know if you've ever seen
[0:22:22 - 0:22:26] ▶
They also look like sort of, uh, Japanese sort of Asian Kanji or whatever.
[0:22:29 - 0:22:33] ▶
Um, I wanted to actually bring something up now that we're sort of on the topic of Greek
[0:22:33 - 0:22:39] ▶
Uh, General McCasland, this, this, you know, general who worked at Wright-Patt, who is apparently
[0:22:41 - 0:22:45] ▶
tied up with like the U the whole UFO stuff, uh, went missing.
[0:22:45 - 0:22:49] ▶
He's been missing now for probably a month or at least several weeks.
[0:22:49 - 0:22:54] ▶
And a lot has sort of transpired in terms of conspiracy around his disappearance.
[0:22:55 - 0:23:00] ▶
But one thing that he said, one thing that we touched on, I think on your podcast.
[0:23:00 - 0:23:05] ▶
Was him relaying the information that if you wanted to understand the phenomenon, you would
[0:23:06 - 0:23:10] ▶
need to look into Greek mythology.
[0:23:10 - 0:23:12] ▶
And that's kind of haunted me since we had that conversation.
[0:23:13 - 0:23:17] ▶
I want to get into the Greek mythology.
[0:23:17 - 0:23:20] ▶
And as part of the reason, you know, you're here today, I think is to help fill that gap
[0:23:20 - 0:23:26] ▶
How do you see Greek mythology?
[0:23:27 - 0:23:30] ▶
What do you make of that statement by General McCasland that looking at the phenomenon, you
[0:23:31 - 0:23:35] ▶
need to understand Greek mythology.
[0:23:35 - 0:23:37] ▶
What does that mean for you?
[0:23:37 - 0:23:38] ▶
And he puts specific emphasis on the Prometheus myth structure, which is essentially you have
[0:23:39 - 0:23:46] ▶
this deity who's, who's part of, I believe he's actually, um, not an Olympian, but he's
[0:23:46 - 0:23:51] ▶
And he's actually, he has a brother named Epimetheus.
[0:23:53 - 0:23:55] ▶
So, so Prometheus means something like forethought and Epimetheus means something like afterthought,
[0:23:55 - 0:24:01] ▶
which is interesting.
[0:24:01 - 0:24:02] ▶
Cause you, you gotta like look deeper into what they mean by saying that, right?
[0:24:02 - 0:24:07] ▶
When you're sitting across from somebody for two, maybe three hours at a time, you tend
[0:24:07 - 0:24:14] ▶
to notice everything.
[0:24:14 - 0:24:15] ▶
How focused you are.
[0:24:21 - 0:24:22] ▶
One thing I never thought would matter this much.
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I used to grab whatever was lying around.
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Dull blades, constant clogging, that raw neck burn afterward.
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30 plus dollars every time the refills ran out.
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Well, then I switched to Harry's plus.
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It feels like a real tool in your hand, not some cheap plastic throwaway.
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And when you're about to sit down for a deep interview, you want that kind of control.
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[0:26:00 - 0:26:05] ▶
So what he does is he takes fire.
[0:26:11 - 0:26:13] ▶
He brings it to the humans, you know, and then he gets punished basically eternally for taking
[0:26:13 - 0:26:17] ▶
a divine power and bringing it down to humanity without permission.
[0:26:17 - 0:26:21] ▶
So, um, and, and the punishment is he gets put on this island.
[0:26:21 - 0:26:24] ▶
I don't remember the name of the island, but then this eagle comes and eats his liver every single day and it regenerates and he's chained up there for eternity and just keeps getting this punishment
[0:26:24 - 0:26:34] ▶
visited upon him over and over and over again.
[0:26:34 - 0:26:36] ▶
So, I mean, the broad strokes of it seem kind of obvious, right?
[0:26:36 - 0:26:41] ▶
That there was probably some kind of entity.
[0:26:41 - 0:26:44] ▶
Higher, higher power that at some point came here and either gave us something or did something or seeded something.
[0:26:45 - 0:26:54] ▶
And that had huge repercussions on what we are.
[0:26:54 - 0:26:59] ▶
And it's hard to know how deep to read into this, right?
[0:26:59 - 0:27:02] ▶
Does that mean they gave us technology?
[0:27:02 - 0:27:04] ▶
Does it mean they gave us, uh, language?
[0:27:04 - 0:27:07] ▶
Does it mean they manipulated our DNA?
[0:27:08 - 0:27:09] ▶
Does it mean they literally seeded the entire planet?
[0:27:10 - 0:27:12] ▶
Like there, there's so many levels you can go, uh.
[0:27:12 - 0:27:14] ▶
And then that ties in again to like, without getting too far off talk, but off topic, but like the Elohim and like the Nephilim and, and all the derivatives of that sort of ancient biblical lore as well.
[0:27:14 - 0:27:26] ▶
Kind of has the same story, but go on with the Greek stuff.
[0:27:27 - 0:27:30] ▶
Well, yeah, well, I do kind of want to bring up the first book of Enoch now where, where that is a great example of this.
[0:27:31 - 0:27:37] ▶
And the thing is, is I don't know verbatim what he actually said.
[0:27:37 - 0:27:41] ▶
I'm sort of regurgitating this from talking to Lavenda.
[0:27:41 - 0:27:44] ▶
Because Lavenda and DeLong wrote secret machines together.
[0:27:44 - 0:27:47] ▶
Where this comes from is the, is WikiLeaks.
[0:27:47 - 0:27:50] ▶
Um, the conversations between Podesta and McCasland and DeLong, and then by way of DeLong and Lavenda are happening through these emails.
[0:27:50 - 0:27:59] ▶
And that's how we know that this was said.
[0:27:59 - 0:28:02] ▶
And I think Tom publicly said that and didn't name names, but then the names came out of that it was McCasland.
[0:28:02 - 0:28:08] ▶
So that seems to be the provenance of where this is coming from.
[0:28:08 - 0:28:12] ▶
And it is really interesting because that's a story that I think you could hear, like hearing Tom DeLong, I'm talking to all these high level military people.
[0:28:12 - 0:28:19] ▶
You could easily be like, yeah, sure you are.
[0:28:19 - 0:28:21] ▶
And then it comes out.
[0:28:21 - 0:28:22] ▶
And then for me, that skyrockets my conviction because it shows he really was having conversations at a very high level.
[0:28:22 - 0:28:29] ▶
So then you have to ask yourself, okay, what is McCasland trying to communicate here?
[0:28:29 - 0:28:36] ▶
I guess you also have to consider, could he be trying to mislead or play games with them?
[0:28:36 - 0:28:41] ▶
Right? I don't know this guy.
[0:28:41 - 0:28:42] ▶
Sure. Or could he just be like, read between the lines.
[0:28:42 - 0:28:45] ▶
I can't tell you exactly what's happening, but I can point you in the right direction.
[0:28:45 - 0:28:48] ▶
You can perhaps make some discovery.
[0:28:49 - 0:28:50] ▶
And what we do know is, is there are some interesting harmonics here too, because from within the military industrial complex, there are other people who have very similar experiences.
[0:28:50 - 0:28:58] ▶
who have very similar lines of interest, right?
[0:28:58 - 0:29:00] ▶
Like Semivan talks about Neoplatonism.
[0:29:00 - 0:29:03] ▶
Uh, uh, Colonel Nell talks about all of this esoteric and spiritual stuff.
[0:29:03 - 0:29:08] ▶
Jim Ryder, who was the, the VP of something at Lockheed gave that, um, whole talk.
[0:29:08 - 0:29:14] ▶
It's, it's on YouTube.
[0:29:15 - 0:29:16] ▶
Haven't watched the whole thing yet, but I've seen clips of it and he's getting extremely esoteric and going down all these mythological rabbit holes.
[0:29:16 - 0:29:25] ▶
So it's not, it's not some weird one off.
[0:29:26 - 0:29:27] ▶
There does seem to be an interest, just like we were saying before, among not just people like Heineck who are going down these rabbit holes and they become very esoteric and spiritual, but people from within the military industrial complex who presumably have knowledge that we don't have end up going this direction.
[0:29:27 - 0:29:42] ▶
Yeah. And it's refreshing to hear that direction.
[0:29:43 - 0:29:45] ▶
Versus the angels and demons direction.
[0:29:46 - 0:29:48] ▶
And we might, they might be one in the same.
[0:29:49 - 0:29:50] ▶
They might be absolutely, um, identical in terms of, uh, referencing and in terms of metaphor.
[0:29:50 - 0:29:58] ▶
But for me, it takes it out of that sort of religious connotation, that sort of cult like mind state and brings it into more of like a philosophical.
[0:29:58 - 0:30:07] ▶
When you talk about the Greeks rather than, you know, what happened in the Bible.
[0:30:08 - 0:30:11] ▶
And we could be talking about one in the same things.
[0:30:13 - 0:30:14] ▶
Uh, but the, the Greek stuff to me, I think appeals a little bit more to me because it doesn't feel so preachy.
[0:30:15 - 0:30:21] ▶
Yeah. It doesn't feel charged with some sort of ax to grind or thing to prove or dogma that you've have some preconceived notion of must be true.
[0:30:21 - 0:30:29] ▶
And plus we know that that kind of binary narrative can lead to all kinds of, uh, manipulation and othering, you know, like just.
[0:30:29 - 0:30:36] ▶
Yeah. Greek mythology is like a, a neutral territory.
[0:30:36 - 0:30:39] ▶
Where everybody can kind of get behind it because it's kind of stories and lore and, uh, it feels more fictitious and not so grounded in reality, but also has the potential to be, you know, really enlightening.
[0:30:40 - 0:30:51] ▶
And on this topic, I think one of the most sophisticated commenters in the space on it is Lavenda for sure.
[0:30:52 - 0:30:58] ▶
And I think, um, broadly what he's trying to draw attention to is say, Hey, when we look at these ancient stories that we say are mythological and can't be true, or they've gotta be, uh, sort of archaic understandings of how reality works by people who didn't have science and they didn't, whatever.
[0:30:58 - 0:31:19] ▶
We gotta not be that dismissive.
[0:31:19 - 0:31:21] ▶
And we really need to ask questions about what kinds of experiences were these predicated off of?
[0:31:21 - 0:31:27] ▶
What, what are they really trying to say?
[0:31:27 - 0:31:29] ▶
And what words would we use from a modern POV on these questions?
[0:31:29 - 0:31:33] ▶
And what I love is he does not have a clean answer.
[0:31:33 - 0:31:36] ▶
When you talk to him, he's very epistemically humble.
[0:31:36 - 0:31:39] ▶
He'll bring up everything from, uh, you know, esoteric magic with a K and a cosmic ascent, um, work and ancient alien sorts of hypotheses.
[0:31:39 - 0:31:51] ▶
He brings it all up.
[0:31:51 - 0:31:52] ▶
And at the end of the day, he's like, I don't know.
[0:31:52 - 0:31:54] ▶
Like, I really don't know, but I know it's not simple.
[0:31:54 - 0:31:56] ▶
And I know, and he doesn't even think disclosure on the part of the kinds of people we're talking about is possible because it is so complex and multifaceted.
[0:31:56 - 0:32:04] ▶
Can't be reduced to nuts and bolts can't be reduced to mythology.
[0:32:04 - 0:32:07] ▶
It's some kind of synthesis of something that's so much bigger and so much more complex than we can easily wrap human language around.
[0:32:07 - 0:32:14] ▶
And that that's where I go to, man.
[0:32:14 - 0:32:16] ▶
That's where my mind gravitates because think about how complex the human psyche is.
[0:32:16 - 0:32:21] ▶
Now let's just, let's just for sake of easy argument, say that there's a literal alien race that's 10 times more advanced than us.
[0:32:21 - 0:32:31] ▶
You can't, there's no way you can make sense of whatever it is.
[0:32:31 - 0:32:35] ▶
You, there's no way you can say, ah, that's just some high level technology that would be indistinguishable from magic, from the human PO.
[0:32:35 - 0:32:42] ▶
It's not just anything.
[0:32:42 - 0:32:43] ▶
It's, it would be so much more.
[0:32:43 - 0:32:44] ▶
It would be completely different understanding of reality.
[0:32:44 - 0:32:47] ▶
Probably 10 times deeper understanding of physics than what we have.
[0:32:47 - 0:32:52] ▶
Yeah, whatever it is would make no sense.
[0:32:52 - 0:32:54] ▶
It would make no logical sense.
[0:32:55 - 0:32:56] ▶
And our logic, the logic that we've developed over, you know, a few centuries.
[0:32:56 - 0:33:02] ▶
Would be so small in comparison to the logic that they're operating on.
[0:33:03 - 0:33:08] ▶
It would, it would be incomparable.
[0:33:09 - 0:33:10] ▶
And even, you know, one of my favorite things to do when we get into these really far flung areas that we can't,
[0:33:11 - 0:33:16] ▶
we can't even prognosticate what it would be about.
[0:33:16 - 0:33:19] ▶
Um, we can look back at our own way of understanding.
[0:33:19 - 0:33:23] ▶
And look at what our, you know, you had Newton, right?
[0:33:24 - 0:33:27] ▶
And, uh, after Newton, we went to relativity.
[0:33:27 - 0:33:29] ▶
And then after relativity, we went to quantum.
[0:33:29 - 0:33:31] ▶
And we already have too complex of a, um, constellation of physics ideas to even make sense of.
[0:33:31 - 0:33:38] ▶
So now we're in this place where you have all these competing ideas for how quantum physics works.
[0:33:38 - 0:33:43] ▶
It's also interesting that we just keep developing and keep doing stuff without even really knowing what we're doing or, or why quantum stuff works the way that it does.
[0:33:44 - 0:33:53] ▶
But we just keep going and we just keep going.
[0:33:53 - 0:33:55] ▶
Now extrapolate that over a thousand years.
[0:33:55 - 0:33:57] ▶
Now think, well, maybe at some point there is no difference between consciousness and physics, or we understand that, uh, consciousness has something to do with physics or vice versa.
[0:33:57 - 0:34:07] ▶
And then the snake eats its own tail and then we make some sort of crazy breakthrough.
[0:34:07 - 0:34:11] ▶
I have to imagine that even a civilization, like a literal living embodied civilization would eventually get to that point given another thousand, let alone millions of years.
[0:34:11 - 0:34:23] ▶
And I don't even think that's what we're talking about by and large.
[0:34:23 - 0:34:26] ▶
I think we're talking about something that's probably not even physical.
[0:34:26 - 0:34:28] ▶
So, so yeah, man, it's a lot to try to, to grapple with.
[0:34:29 - 0:34:32] ▶
It really is a lot to grok.
[0:34:32 - 0:34:33] ▶
There's, it's, uh, such a big pill to swallow when you think of a human being.
[0:34:33 - 0:34:36] ▶
You're still to swallow when you think of ontology, you think of, I mean, just the nature of consciousness itself.
[0:34:36 - 0:34:44] ▶
Like, you know, everybody has their own definition of what consciousness is.
[0:34:44 - 0:34:48] ▶
First of all, none of us can really define what that is.
[0:34:48 - 0:34:52] ▶
There's no clean definition of what consciousness is.
[0:34:52 - 0:34:55] ▶
Some people will say, oh, it's everything, or it's the energy in everything, or it's your soul, or it's, you know, everything is conscious or it's all one.
[0:34:55 - 0:35:04] ▶
And then you start getting into a time doesn't exist, space doesn't exist.
[0:35:05 - 0:35:07] ▶
It's just our perception of it.
[0:35:07 - 0:35:09] ▶
And like, it's, it's so, I'll use your word, mercurial.
[0:35:09 - 0:35:12] ▶
There is, it's, it's really hard to pin down what any of this is.
[0:35:12 - 0:35:16] ▶
But I think one thing which is really refreshing in today's day and age is that it seems like we are collectively starting to go back to the idea that consciousness is fundamental.
[0:35:16 - 0:35:29] ▶
And that is something, you know, I think about the end of the 30 year war in 1648.
[0:35:30 - 0:35:36] ▶
This was like when the, you know, Roman Catholics were at war for basically, it was the, it was the separation of church and state.
[0:35:37 - 0:35:46] ▶
It was, uh, taking religion out of politics and that created these sovereign sort of states in Europe and ideas were then began to be freely exchanged between people who had not communicated before.
[0:35:46 - 0:35:59] ▶
Without the possibility of being sort of reprimanded for thinking that way.
[0:36:00 - 0:36:05] ▶
Which began sort of the invisible college and had everybody sort of, you know, uh, once we separated church and state, they started separating science and church as well.
[0:36:06 - 0:36:15] ▶
And that's where discovery really started happening when, you know, ideas were free forming, free flowing.
[0:36:16 - 0:36:22] ▶
Um, but after a while, what happened is that there was such a resentment from either side opposing one another.
[0:36:22 - 0:36:30] ▶
Like there was such resentment from people who, you know, wanted the science stuff because they'd been repressed so long by the church.
[0:36:30 - 0:36:37] ▶
That they wanted to completely emancipate from, from, you know, that side of things that they began resenting each other and they became so individualized.
[0:36:38 - 0:36:50] ▶
And over time, it's gotten us pretty far in physics to do that.
[0:36:52 - 0:36:57] ▶
But we're now at a point, we're at a standstill with physics, with, with a lot of things.
[0:36:57 - 0:37:04] ▶
And it seems like, like the snake eating its own tail, like we've had to come back to at least acknowledging that consciousness could be a fundamental part of the universe.
[0:37:04 - 0:37:16] ▶
And to attain, uh, the study of that consciousness, you might have to be spiritual.
[0:37:16 - 0:37:23] ▶
And so that's where the religion, and I say religion loosely, but the whole spirituality sort of, uh, concept comes back in.
[0:37:23 - 0:37:31] ▶
And that seems like where we're at now.
[0:37:31 - 0:37:33] ▶
We're at this converging place where eventually, inevitably we'll have to turn back to spirituality in order to understand the fundamental physics that, you know, operate invisibly around us.
[0:37:33 - 0:37:45] ▶
I, I absolutely think so.
[0:37:48 - 0:37:49] ▶
And there has been an explosion in idealist philosophy.
[0:37:49 - 0:37:52] ▶
So, again, the idea that consciousness is somehow fundamental.
[0:37:52 - 0:37:55] ▶
So the biggest probably names you're going to find in this kind of milieu are Dr. Donald Hoffman, uh, Dr. Bernardo Castro, uh, and like Federico Fagin.
[0:37:55 - 0:38:04] ▶
And they're all really interesting and they all have their own sort of twists, but they're all largely on the same page in terms of the bigger picture.
[0:38:04 - 0:38:12] ▶
It's that this reality that we perceive with our physical senses is either, uh, not reality at all, up to an almost simulation level.
[0:38:12 - 0:38:22] ▶
Like Don actually goes beyond simulation, which I love about him.
[0:38:22 - 0:38:27] ▶
Um, and I'll, I'll explain what that means in a second, but at the very least, it is a very poor representation of whatever the higher reality is.
[0:38:27 - 0:38:35] ▶
Like it's a very tiny pixel of what the truth is.
[0:38:35 - 0:38:39] ▶
And we have to be in this kind of a state for, uh, evolutionary fitness purposes, right?
[0:38:39 - 0:38:44] ▶
Like if we had too much of reality coming in, like, let's just say we were seeing other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum that we couldn't interact with, but are real.
[0:38:44 - 0:38:51] ▶
That would actually degrade our fitness because we'd be getting overwhelmed by information we don't need.
[0:38:51 - 0:38:56] ▶
So that's one aspect of it is that it actually makes a lot of logical sense that we don't really need to perceive reality.
[0:38:56 - 0:39:03] ▶
We need to perceive what we need to perceive to survive, to reproduce, to do the things human beings need to do.
[0:39:03 - 0:39:10] ▶
Um, and that's part of this Don Hoffman guy's argument.
[0:39:10 - 0:39:13] ▶
But when I say that he goes beyond simulation, he argues that based on his work that he did in cognitive science over the course of his whole career,
[0:39:13 - 0:39:22] ▶
that he actually proved through evolutionary game theory that if you create a population that perceives even 1% of the true reality, they die.
[0:39:22 - 0:39:33] ▶
But if you tune them just for fitness pay off.
[0:39:34 - 0:39:36] ▶
So like avoid these things that kill you, eat these things, reproduce this way, they'll thrive and they'll grow and whatever.
[0:39:36 - 0:39:43] ▶
So he truly believes that we perceive 0% of reality and that whatever is outside of Plato's cave or outside of the simulation is the true reality.
[0:39:43 - 0:39:53] ▶
And that is a realm comprised of consciousness.
[0:39:53 - 0:39:55] ▶
And he has this whole crazy theory of what he calls conscious agents that exists behind the veil of this physical world basically.
[0:39:55 - 0:40:03] ▶
Um, so who are they gatekeeping or?
[0:40:03 - 0:40:06] ▶
Well, in theory, we are also conscious agents, but this is just a piece of technical terminology that he's using to be able to say,
[0:40:06 - 0:40:16] ▶
I'm not just talking about a concept here.
[0:40:16 - 0:40:18] ▶
I'm talking about something mathematically specific and I can represent a conscious agent using what's called a Markov chain.
[0:40:18 - 0:40:24] ▶
And basically like this mathematical concept that allows you to have this, um, entity that can make certain levels of decisions and have agency and stuff like that.
[0:40:24 - 0:40:34] ▶
So he's actually trying to merge.
[0:40:34 - 0:40:36] ▶
He's not a physicist, but he works with physicists and mathematicians where he's trying to merge cutting edge physics with, um, what we're talking about.
[0:40:36 - 0:40:46] ▶
So not just saying, oh yeah, consciousness, it's this other thing.
[0:40:46 - 0:40:49] ▶
And we can't ever explain it with math and physics.
[0:40:49 - 0:40:52] ▶
He agrees with that, but he still thinks we should try.
[0:40:52 - 0:40:55] ▶
And he thinks his theory is gonna fail, but he thinks in the failing, we're gonna be failing forward and we're going to make huge, uh, leaps in discovery and technology.
[0:40:56 - 0:41:04] ▶
Because he thinks we really can basically unveil this realm of conscious agents.
[0:41:04 - 0:41:08] ▶
Have you ever seen the artist that does pictures using math equations?
[0:41:08 - 0:41:13] ▶
Oh my God. Can I show this to you very quick?
[0:41:14 - 0:41:15] ▶
Breaking one of my rules here, but I gotta show this to you.
[0:41:16 - 0:41:18] ▶
Because this, it's exactly what we're speaking of.
[0:41:19 - 0:41:21] ▶
Um, artist creates images with math.
[0:41:21 - 0:41:28] ▶
But while you're looking up, looking that up too, I mean, if you sincerely consider what he's saying, um, oh, so he like writes out mathematical equations and then they result in pictures.
[0:41:29 - 0:41:43] ▶
That is a kind of brain that I do not have.
[0:41:45 - 0:41:48] ▶
It's, it's nuts, man.
[0:41:50 - 0:41:51] ▶
So, you know, when you're, when you're speaking about how, you know, how could math possibly represent reality?
[0:41:51 - 0:41:56] ▶
I don't have an idea of how that could even be possible.
[0:41:57 - 0:41:59] ▶
Like, you know, there, there are certain concepts that are so strange to talk about because they're just, oh, this is, you know, the way light behaves and whatever.
[0:42:00 - 0:42:09] ▶
And then some guy can go, oh, here, I wrote 19 pages of letters and numbers and symbols.
[0:42:09 - 0:42:15] ▶
That explain what you're feeling right now.
[0:42:16 - 0:42:18] ▶
And you're like, huh?
[0:42:18 - 0:42:19] ▶
And so, although it's hard for me to conceive, it's not impossible for humans to conceive of a reality that might be entirely numerical.
[0:42:19 - 0:42:30] ▶
And even if it's not a reality, the thing that's so interesting is you, you can't make stuff, right?
[0:42:32 - 0:42:38] ▶
Without really coherent mathematical theories that you can then turn into applied technologies, like applied engineering.
[0:42:38 - 0:42:45] ▶
So that your engineering to some degree is going to be constrained by your theories.
[0:42:47 - 0:42:50] ▶
Like you can't do things that you don't have mathematical concepts and equations for.
[0:42:51 - 0:42:55] ▶
Now we have quantum, right?
[0:42:57 - 0:42:58] ▶
So we can start asking the question, like, what if we were using, you know, non-binary, non-Boolean, all these different concepts to put into computers?
[0:42:58 - 0:43:07] ▶
And it unlocks this whole realm of possibilities.
[0:43:07 - 0:43:10] ▶
Now imagine another iteration over the top of that, where we have this whole other system where you can model these conscious agents and stuff like that, man.
[0:43:11 - 0:43:20] ▶
I don't think we can even conceive of what it practically means yet because we haven't gotten to that point of applying it into technologies.
[0:43:20 - 0:43:26] ▶
But I wanted to say, too, that this has really obvious implications for the phenomenon.
[0:43:26 - 0:43:31] ▶
Like if there is, if this is a simulacra or a simulation or the terminology Don likes to use as a headset, that this is like a headset, basically, an evolutionarily convenient headset.
[0:43:32 - 0:43:43] ▶
You ask the question of what these conscious agents are behind the headset.
[0:43:43 - 0:43:48] ▶
I mean, that basically explains the phenomenon, right?
[0:43:48 - 0:43:51] ▶
It's pro, it's entities coming from this realm of conscious agents interacting with you in a way that is anomalous and weird.
[0:43:51 - 0:43:59] ▶
Like it's, it sounds a lot like.
[0:44:00 - 0:44:01] ▶
I was, I was just talking about this discussion yesterday a little bit and something that I've been mulling over my head too.
[0:44:02 - 0:44:05] ▶
Like if I was to create a program and have a little guy in this program, you know, do stuff like in a blender type way, like he's, he's making shapes and he's behaving and he's got AI that I, you know, uploaded into his mind.
[0:44:05 - 0:44:20] ▶
He thinks he's alone.
[0:44:21 - 0:44:23] ▶
He thinks that's reality.
[0:44:23 - 0:44:24] ▶
You know, if he has complete artificial intelligence embedded with his program, then he thinks he, yeah, this is life.
[0:44:24 - 0:44:31] ▶
And he doesn't know that I'm sitting here behind a computer screen, making him, giving him epiphanies.
[0:44:32 - 0:44:38] ▶
You know, if I type in, Hey, build a sandcastle.
[0:44:38 - 0:44:41] ▶
And he just goes, huh?
[0:44:41 - 0:44:43] ▶
I should build a sandcastle.
[0:44:43 - 0:44:45] ▶
That's a great, I just had, I just had this thing come to me where I should build a sandcastle.
[0:44:46 - 0:44:49] ▶
And he builds a sandcastle and he learns from it and the model's growing and you're like, oh, cute, but it's not fast enough.
[0:44:49 - 0:44:55] ▶
So I drag and drop a sandcastle from a different window perfectly into his vicinity.
[0:44:55 - 0:45:01] ▶
And now he goes, and he starts measuring it and he goes, this is, this sandcastle is pristine.
[0:45:01 - 0:45:05] ▶
It is remarkably perfect.
[0:45:05 - 0:45:07] ▶
Like there's, there's no way that our technology could replicate this sandcastle.
[0:45:07 - 0:45:14] ▶
It inspires his curiosity.
[0:45:15 - 0:45:17] ▶
He becomes sort of, he, he thrives now.
[0:45:17 - 0:45:21] ▶
And, and is becoming as a result of witnessing something impossible, more complex.
[0:45:22 - 0:45:31] ▶
He is a more complex structure than he was prior to witnessing this little perfect thing that I dragged in.
[0:45:31 - 0:45:39] ▶
And so if you were to look at our reality in that same way where there are maybe not so, you know, so easy to explain.
[0:45:39 - 0:45:47] ▶
They're not just sitting there with a headset and, you know, smoking weed and whatever, maybe they are.
[0:45:47 - 0:45:51] ▶
But the idea that they could just drop shit into our existence, like these eggs at these ranges or these UFOs that are floating in a hangar that they can't seem to get working.
[0:45:51 - 0:46:00] ▶
Um, that might, that might be the whole point is just to like, keep our consciousness guessing and create more complexity in the model.
[0:46:00 - 0:46:11] ▶
Because if the model is more like, as it asks more questions, it grows more complex and it becomes a more of a complete model that you can use.
[0:46:12 - 0:46:19] ▶
So, you know, are we just stress?
[0:46:19 - 0:46:22] ▶
Are they just stress testing our reality for like the next?
[0:46:22 - 0:46:25] ▶
Or like providing the carrots, the sort of, you know, uh, valet sort of technological carrot to make us noodle on something that we're, it's, it's almost like.
[0:46:26 - 0:46:36] ▶
In your old life, receiving a puzzle box that you're like, oh man, how do I solve this?
[0:46:38 - 0:46:41] ▶
But now imagine that on some sort of a higher level where essentially a higher entity is dropping you a puzzle box.
[0:46:41 - 0:46:47] ▶
Dude, and that leads to some insanely schizo, but really fun rabbit holes because you could think of like, wait a minute.
[0:46:47 - 0:46:54] ▶
What if the pyramid of Giza is one of those?
[0:46:54 - 0:46:57] ▶
Or what if like these megalithic ruins that we have, we look at and we're like, that is not possible.
[0:46:57 - 0:47:02] ▶
Or what if it's just synchronicity?
[0:47:02 - 0:47:03] ▶
Like this, this epiphany.
[0:47:05 - 0:47:06] ▶
This, this light bulb eureka moment in your mind that you go, oh, like a Nikola Tesla.
[0:47:07 - 0:47:12] ▶
What was he drawing like steam engines in the sand when he was 17 or whatever in Serbia?
[0:47:13 - 0:47:16] ▶
Like, where did that come from?
[0:47:16 - 0:47:18] ▶
This divine sort of boom, you have access to this cloud of information all of a sudden that you should not have access to.
[0:47:19 - 0:47:25] ▶
That no one is ever that you're just discovering for the first time and you're able to draw it out so clearly.
[0:47:25 - 0:47:31] ▶
And sometimes two people across the world having that same idea.
[0:47:31 - 0:47:34] ▶
The, it was the, the one recently I saw where Dennis the menace.
[0:47:35 - 0:47:38] ▶
Was created at the exact same time, both in America and the UK.
[0:47:39 - 0:47:43] ▶
Same character, same name, same everything.
[0:47:44 - 0:47:45] ▶
Parallel thinking is real, dude.
[0:47:45 - 0:47:46] ▶
Another famous example of that is, um, Isaac Newton and, uh, uh, Leibniz both basically in parallel solved calculus at the same time.
[0:47:49 - 0:47:59] ▶
Like came up with it and solved calculus and Newton always gets the credit for it, but Leibniz also did it at the same time, apparently.
[0:47:59 - 0:48:06] ▶
So yeah, there's a lot of like, and there's a lot of creative examples too, of people basically writing the same story or someone starting a story and then never finishing it.
[0:48:06 - 0:48:13] ▶
And then all of a sudden someone else puts it out.
[0:48:13 - 0:48:16] ▶
And yeah, when you bring what we're talking about to the psychical level, that is the most fun, most schizo.
[0:48:17 - 0:48:23] ▶
Yet I think also the most probably parsimonious or, or realistic option in that it is very difficult to say where ideas come from.
[0:48:23 - 0:48:34] ▶
And a lot of times they do seem like they're just coming from outside.
[0:48:34 - 0:48:38] ▶
Like there's some orthogonal information that just comes from some other place that just is instantly beamed into your mind.
[0:48:38 - 0:48:44] ▶
I mean, when, once you start traversing non-ordinary states of consciousness, or you really pay attention during hypnagogic states, you know, as you're going in and out of sleep, weird stuff just appears there sometimes.
[0:48:45 - 0:48:57] ▶
Like weird images, weird, almost auditory crackles, and I'm not saying.
[0:48:57 - 0:49:01] ▶
Some people hear, um, some people hear, yeah, like, like screams like, yeah, woohoo.
[0:49:06 - 0:49:10] ▶
I think I actually have heard stuff like that now that you say that.
[0:49:11 - 0:49:13] ▶
And so I, and I don't know if that's just the weird workings of the mind as it's shutting down for the night, or if that truly is having like a clear audience kind of just picking up information from the ether.
[0:49:17 - 0:49:29] ▶
But obviously I'm very open to that.
[0:49:29 - 0:49:31] ▶
And of course I'm always fantasizing about getting some kind of confirmation.
[0:49:31 - 0:49:35] ▶
And I want to say that there are maybe one or two times in my life where I feel like I've gotten that confirmation, but by and large, it's just like, it just feels like chatter from the ether that maybe you're picking up on.
[0:49:36 - 0:49:48] ▶
But, yeah, man, Nikola Tesla, I have no doubt that that guy had to have been tapped into higher consciousness or NHI or whatever you want to call it, because he literally talks about hearing voices or communicating with voices from the time he was very young.
[0:49:48 - 0:50:01] ▶
Um, I just finished reading that new science of heaven book and he comes up in that book and dude, he had these.
[0:50:02 - 0:50:07] ▶
Luminous manifestation like experiences that sound like something that a platonic or gnostic mystic would talk about where he would find himself in these realms of fire, what felt like sentient fire with like tongues of fire all around him and high, what he felt like was higher intelligence all around him.
[0:50:07 - 0:50:29] ▶
So, yeah, man, that guy was plugged into something.
[0:50:29 - 0:50:31] ▶
I mean, I don't know what, but.
[0:50:31 - 0:50:32] ▶
You see him just sitting in that room surrounded by Tesla coils.
[0:50:33 - 0:50:35] ▶
It is, I mean, the biggest example of aura farming I've ever seen in my life.
[0:50:39 - 0:50:44] ▶
Yeah, he's like sitting there with his legs crossed.
[0:50:44 - 0:50:46] ▶
Yeah, his legs crossed.
[0:50:46 - 0:50:47] ▶
Taking notes while there's just like a trillion volts of energy just like sparkling around him.
[0:50:47 - 0:50:54] ▶
Um, you know, he's been involved in like so many other countless stories from, you know, that have to do with time travel.
[0:50:54 - 0:51:01] ▶
Uh, didn't he also say that he would create a force field dome, uh, that he could do that as well.
[0:51:01 - 0:51:08] ▶
Um, for the governments.
[0:51:08 - 0:51:10] ▶
Um, there's like a lot of like re the guy invented so many things.
[0:51:12 - 0:51:15] ▶
Like we don't realize how many things are patented by Tesla as well.
[0:51:15 - 0:51:18] ▶
There's like a, he's got a whole list of patents that he invented.
[0:51:18 - 0:51:21] ▶
Yeah, he also caused a, um, an earthquake in New York once I believe.
[0:51:21 - 0:51:26] ▶
My friend, I think my friend.
[0:51:27 - 0:51:28] ▶
An earthquake machine.
[0:51:28 - 0:51:29] ▶
I don't remember what he was doing, but I know my friend MJ Dorian put a clip of this up on his YouTube channel of him telling this story about how he was causing an earthquake because of some, I think it was some electromagnetic thing that he was doing.
[0:51:30 - 0:51:41] ▶
And the police actually showed up and he's like, don't worry, gentlemen, I'll have it shut down in no time.
[0:51:41 - 0:51:45] ▶
But it was like literally making the whole building and the whole block shake or something like that.
[0:51:46 - 0:51:49] ▶
I could be getting the details of this story wrong, but.
[0:51:49 - 0:51:51] ▶
It wouldn't surprise me.
[0:51:51 - 0:51:52] ▶
He's the most enigmatic character of our time.
[0:51:52 - 0:51:55] ▶
More so than anyone else.
[0:51:57 - 0:51:58] ▶
Um, it's so, it's so strange how we today.
[0:51:59 - 0:52:04] ▶
We today reference Einstein so readily, but dismiss Nikola Tesla, you know, when he in fact is the progenitor of so many breakthrough, um, ways of thinking about energy and, and high voltage, especially.
[0:52:06 - 0:52:22] ▶
And, you know, he was, he was putting forward some of the most groundbreaking life changing technology that we would ever come across.
[0:52:23 - 0:52:31] ▶
Like he, you know, he said, Hey, I'm going to have free energy for the world, which was a huge threat for people back then for, you know, the people in power.
[0:52:31 - 0:52:38] ▶
Uh, but this guy was doing these things.
[0:52:38 - 0:52:40] ▶
He was thinking that big.
[0:52:40 - 0:52:41] ▶
We have yet to encounter someone who.
[0:52:41 - 0:52:43] ▶
Has thought as far and wide as Nikola Tesla has.
[0:52:43 - 0:52:48] ▶
Do you think they would let him?
[0:52:48 - 0:52:49] ▶
I don't even know if they let him live today.
[0:52:49 - 0:52:51] ▶
I don't think they would.
[0:52:52 - 0:52:53] ▶
It makes you wonder if there was a Tesla that's been shut down.
[0:52:54 - 0:52:56] ▶
Because you gotta, cause.
[0:52:56 - 0:52:57] ▶
From, from the, from the POV of the hypothetical gatekeepers, whether we're talking about gatekeepers, gatekeepers, or just the government, the types of technology we can flirt with now, just coupling AI and I don't know, germ theory and everything else that's out there.
[0:52:58 - 0:53:16] ▶
Dude, you, you could do some real, real damage if you were just some kind of malevolent genius psychopath.
[0:53:16 - 0:53:22] ▶
Like villains in comic books could be real at this point.
[0:53:22 - 0:53:28] ▶
Like there, there are technologies out there that could make comic book level villains real at this point.
[0:53:29 - 0:53:34] ▶
And that's terrifying.
[0:53:35 - 0:53:36] ▶
And not so much the stuff that could make superheroes.
[0:53:37 - 0:53:39] ▶
We haven't caught up to the toxic goo that makes you stronger yet.
[0:53:41 - 0:53:45] ▶
Unfortunately, radioactive has quite an adverse reaction to your body.
[0:53:47 - 0:53:50] ▶
And unfortunately doesn't make you into a, into a super, super being.
[0:53:51 - 0:53:55] ▶
I hear a lot of good things about peptides.
[0:53:56 - 0:53:58] ▶
Just kind of gives you like lymphatic cancer really.
[0:53:58 - 0:54:01] ▶
It's, it's makes your eyes bleed.
[0:54:01 - 0:54:03] ▶
Not quite, not quite the Stanley universe that we all had hoped for.
[0:54:04 - 0:54:08] ▶
Um, what do you think in terms of cutting edge technologies that are rumored to exist, you know, through the work of people like Tesla or these other, you know, T towns and Browns or whatever.
[0:54:10 - 0:54:24] ▶
Do you think that there are any of those technologies that have truly reached sort of clandestine maturity?
[0:54:24 - 0:54:30] ▶
Have you seen evidence to that, to that effect at all?
[0:54:30 - 0:54:32] ▶
Um, I haven't seen evidence of it, but I don't doubt it.
[0:54:32 - 0:54:35] ▶
Like, I mean, we're always sort of 30 years ahead, at least in technological, um, sort of breakthroughs, uh, regarding if you just take like the stealth bomber, for example, you know, there were rumors, the stealth bomber 30 years prior to it coming out.
[0:54:35 - 0:54:51] ▶
So I, I assume we're 30 plus years ahead of the curb.
[0:54:51 - 0:54:56] ▶
Um, what 30 years looks like on an exponential technological growth chart.
[0:54:56 - 0:55:02] ▶
Um, might be, might look like a thousand years rather than 30 to us because of the, you know, just the ramping up of technology.
[0:55:03 - 0:55:13] ▶
Um, and the ramping up of, uh, propulsion specifically, you know, if you look at the way we started with fire.
[0:55:13 - 0:55:22] ▶
And then it took 2000 years, sorry, to develop like, you know, coal systems and then a steam engine.
[0:55:23 - 0:55:30] ▶
And then from there, uh, to get gunpowder, you know, we went from 2000 years to 200 years to 20 years to five years.
[0:55:30 - 0:55:38] ▶
It's going exponential all the way to nuclear and it's kind of shortening every single time this, these breakthrough discoveries in propulsion specifically.
[0:55:38 - 0:55:48] ▶
An explosion like energy.
[0:55:49 - 0:55:50] ▶
And by that same metric, we should be already well past the next step.
[0:55:50 - 0:55:57] ▶
It, it feels like the technology.
[0:55:57 - 0:55:59] ▶
Doesn't it by and large?
[0:56:00 - 0:56:01] ▶
Well, nuclear is, is like right after, like, I mean, if you look at all of the steps we had and how they shorten.
[0:56:01 - 0:56:07] ▶
Like it, it, it goes like this.
[0:56:09 - 0:56:10] ▶
The chart just goes whoop.
[0:56:10 - 0:56:11] ▶
For another propulsion system.
[0:56:16 - 0:56:18] ▶
If you look at that chart.
[0:56:19 - 0:56:20] ▶
And the fact that we don't, to me, signals that there, there had to be intervention.
[0:56:20 - 0:56:25] ▶
That, that's the sense that I get is that the sort of masses have been left behind and there's probably some elite group that has access to whatever this other technology is.
[0:56:27 - 0:56:36] ▶
And I don't know if they're totally cloistering it and saving it as like a trump card or if they really are using it secretly.
[0:56:36 - 0:56:42] ▶
I don't know, man, but it does feel that way.
[0:56:42 - 0:56:44] ▶
Like whenever you ride on a, like the, the airplane I rode here, it's like, it had to be like 30 years old, you know?
[0:56:44 - 0:56:51] ▶
And even the new versions of that are not that different.
[0:56:51 - 0:56:54] ▶
It's just nicer on the inside, maybe a little more efficient, but it's basically the same thing.
[0:56:55 - 0:56:58] ▶
So you gotta ask the question why?
[0:56:59 - 0:57:00] ▶
Like where, like why?
[0:57:00 - 0:57:02] ▶
Like even, even other conventional things we know of, you know, there, we don't have nuclear airplanes.
[0:57:02 - 0:57:07] ▶
We don't have electric airplanes by and large.
[0:57:07 - 0:57:10] ▶
We're like stuck in this, this, uh, combustion engine propulsion sort of mindset that I feel like has to be, it's probably just this hegemonic thing where you have these giant corporate entities that want to ensure that that stays the status quo.
[0:57:10 - 0:57:24] ▶
So we don't disrupt their profits.
[0:57:24 - 0:57:26] ▶
We don't disrupt the economy.
[0:57:26 - 0:57:27] ▶
But yeah, man, I, but that's also my, that also might be why the phenomenon is presenting itself.
[0:57:28 - 0:57:33] ▶
At the edges of science, when science begins, when science begins rounding itself out, when we begin rounding out the edges, there's always some breakthrough.
[0:57:36 - 0:57:43] ▶
When you get to the end and we're like, Hey, this is all we got.
[0:57:46 - 0:57:48] ▶
We're just polishing, you know, a thing at the, we're not doing any crazy major breakthroughs anymore.
[0:57:48 - 0:57:53] ▶
That's usually when something disruptive happens where you get this Einstein Tesla type genius, uh, suddenly, you know, in some small country, he emerges or we get some breakthrough discovery due to some natural or cataclysmic event or a war or something like something happens that creates, you know, um, at least a boundless way of thinking.
[0:57:53 - 0:58:18] ▶
Right now we're kind of bound.
[0:58:22 - 0:58:23] ▶
And then something happens where we go, Oh, and we open that the phenomenon to me seems like it might be acting on that behalf.
[0:58:24 - 0:58:28] ▶
And for whatever reasons, these, you know, warmongering elite sort of capitalist, you know, uh, gatekeepers are preventing the phenomenon from showing itself to people in a way using their own technology.
[0:58:29 - 0:58:45] ▶
So perhaps in that same way are controlling the narrative are shaping the narrative, um, and are filling their pockets.
[0:58:45 - 0:58:52] ▶
But it's the reason we're so long overdue for another breakthrough.
[0:58:52 - 0:58:55] ▶
Is that they've been hoarding the very phenomenon that's been trying to make us advance.
[0:58:56 - 0:59:01] ▶
We definitely need something.
[0:59:03 - 0:59:04] ▶
It feels like, it feels like the direction we're going in is untenable for so many different reasons.
[0:59:04 - 0:59:08] ▶
And I hope that that's true.
[0:59:08 - 0:59:10] ▶
And I don't, we were talking about this before too, is that like, I really try not to gravitate toward malevolent versions of the conversation when it comes to the phenomenon.
[0:59:10 - 0:59:19] ▶
Cause it's so disempowering and it's, you know, if, if you truly take this, some version of the Gnostic, evil demiurgic, um, alien, you know, if, if that's the standpoint you take, you've really robbed yourself.
[0:59:19 - 0:59:33] ▶
Of, of basically any agency, right?
[0:59:33 - 0:59:35] ▶
Like you're, you're trapped in some prison.
[0:59:35 - 0:59:37] ▶
What are you going to do?
[0:59:37 - 0:59:38] ▶
What are you going to do about it?
[0:59:38 - 0:59:39] ▶
There's basically nothing you can do about it.
[0:59:39 - 0:59:41] ▶
So that's one reason, but I also just don't see how it makes sense that beings that are so much more advanced than we are would really need to take a look at it.
[0:59:41 - 0:59:48] ▶
Really need to take advantage of us in that way.
[0:59:48 - 0:59:50] ▶
It seems like they should be well beyond the need to like use us to mine gold or, you know, the, the sort of Sitchin's narrative.
[0:59:50 - 0:59:58] ▶
So I'll play devil's advocate here.
[1:00:00 - 1:00:02] ▶
Only because I feel like if you're doing this on one planet, you're doing it on a trillion planets.
[1:00:03 - 1:00:07] ▶
So although if yes, if we were alone, it might seem completely of no consequence or just why, why are they doing this to this planet?
[1:00:07 - 1:00:16] ▶
Why, you know, why couldn't they just go elsewhere?
[1:00:16 - 1:00:18] ▶
But what if it is every single planet and there are trillions of them and they're all sort of loosing off these people?
[1:00:18 - 1:00:26] ▶
Um, you know, for me, that might be, that could be a possibility.
[1:00:26 - 1:00:31] ▶
Um, but also I think more in the sense of building a model.
[1:00:31 - 1:00:37] ▶
So if you're building a model, you would want to optimize that model.
[1:00:37 - 1:00:43] ▶
If you're AI, you would want to have the most potential for complexity to arise.
[1:00:43 - 1:00:51] ▶
Like you would need entropy to feed the model information.
[1:00:51 - 1:00:56] ▶
And the more entropy, the more complexity exists, the more information is being pumped into the model.
[1:00:57 - 1:01:02] ▶
And by having 7 billion people with individual consciousness or seemingly individual consciousnesses, you gather way more valuable intel and information than if they were all telepathic.
[1:01:04 - 1:01:21] ▶
And sharing one mind.
[1:01:25 - 1:01:26] ▶
You know, studying 7 billion civilizations.
[1:01:26 - 1:01:28] ▶
Um, and, and that might be incredibly valuable.
[1:01:29 - 1:01:32] ▶
Like if you're studying anything, you know, if, if I live in a place where everything thinks the same or at least shares thought.
[1:01:32 - 1:01:39] ▶
To study a small place with 7 billion individual thoughts.
[1:01:39 - 1:01:44] ▶
That's a gold mine in itself.
[1:01:46 - 1:01:47] ▶
And I can see, I mean, there are versions of, see that to me doesn't necessarily sound malevolent.
[1:01:48 - 1:01:51] ▶
It could take on what looks like male, malevolence from our POV.
[1:01:52 - 1:01:55] ▶
Neutral, but neutrality could look like, yeah, malevolence to the people being studied for sure.
[1:01:56 - 1:02:00] ▶
I think that if something like the psycho spiritual picture, I think is the most likely thing to explain a lot of what's going on.
[1:02:01 - 1:02:10] ▶
I think if that's true, I think there actually would be a moment where we would realize that, hey, even if there is something that's kind of orchestrating things and, and maybe even doing a light version of human farming or something like that, maybe there is a reason that it would not be malevolent.
[1:02:10 - 1:02:26] ▶
In the same way, like, you're not malevolent for having a dog and, and, you know, enforcing rules on the dog and trying to teach the dog things.
[1:02:27 - 1:02:35] ▶
It could be something like that.
[1:02:35 - 1:02:36] ▶
And I don't, I'm not saying I want to be, you know, some ultra terrestrials pet or whatever.
[1:02:37 - 1:02:42] ▶
That's not your choice.
[1:02:42 - 1:02:43] ▶
I'm not saying I don't.
[1:02:43 - 1:02:44] ▶
Maybe, maybe it'd be dope, man.
[1:02:44 - 1:02:45] ▶
It's not the worst, uh, yeah, it's not the worst case scenario.
[1:02:45 - 1:02:48] ▶
I could think of worse things.
[1:02:49 - 1:02:50] ▶
Um, but also the idea that, you know, you go to see a doctor and if you're a child and the doctor pokes you, you, you think, oh, that's a bad man.
[1:02:51 - 1:03:00] ▶
The doctor who's giving you something understands that what he's giving you to his understanding is good for you.
[1:03:04 - 1:03:09] ▶
You're self-censored here.
[1:03:10 - 1:03:11] ▶
Well, what I'm saying is that there is something beyond the doctor too.
[1:03:12 - 1:03:23] ▶
So like whatever, whatever, um, morality, if that even is part of the equation that these beings exist on to do their farming or their gathering or their collecting, you know, they might not have the full picture either is what I'm saying.
[1:03:24 - 1:03:40] ▶
And, and there might be something over them that they're just trying to understand.
[1:03:41 - 1:03:45] ▶
Like if you were trying to max out consciousness to see, to, to create an apotheosis, a separation from God.
[1:03:45 - 1:03:54] ▶
And to, if you're an AI entity and you're trying to create consciousness or God-like consciousness, you know, you would have to attempt to max it out in real time to see what that would look like.
[1:03:55 - 1:04:09] ▶
And having all of these interbreeding different planets that you're just kind of seeding and ha, you know, introducing complexity through these UAP, through this phenomenon, through these apparitions.
[1:04:11 - 1:04:23] ▶
Inspiring and stoking the flame of curiosity of all these passionate little individuals as they're collectively mining experience to feed consciousness.
[1:04:23 - 1:04:32] ▶
Maybe at the end of all that, maybe they end up understanding.
[1:04:32 - 1:04:38] ▶
And that's all they're trying to do.
[1:04:41 - 1:04:42] ▶
And my friend, um, Ike Baker, he's a brilliant esotericist author guy, actually brought me to tears on a podcast once just saying, to have the hubris, to think that you can even understand what it would be like for something that we would perceive to be a God, to be moral, is insane.
[1:04:45 - 1:05:06] ▶
And that's what makes any level of sense to me is that there's, is there, there is an implicate order, but somewhere within the implicate order, there's like attenuation and loss in the intention.
[1:06:06 - 1:06:17] ▶
That's just a, uh, natural result of what it's like to be physical.
[1:06:17 - 1:06:22] ▶
You know, it, it's something like that.
[1:06:22 - 1:06:24] ▶
It's like, just in the same way that if you were writing a computer program and there's errors happening, it's like, ah, I don't, I'm trying to do this, but that keeps happening and I'm gonna have to figure out a workaround for this.
[1:06:24 - 1:06:34] ▶
But at the same time, it's feeding the model.
[1:06:34 - 1:06:36] ▶
All those errors are very valuable.
[1:06:37 - 1:06:38] ▶
So it's like, it's self-sustaining.
[1:06:40 - 1:06:41] ▶
The physical, uh, nests that we, that we live, uh, creates these errors that you mentioned.
[1:06:42 - 1:06:49] ▶
These errors help the physical being survive longer.
[1:06:49 - 1:06:55] ▶
You know, so it's a, it's a feedback loop.
[1:06:56 - 1:06:57] ▶
You know, we, we would learn nothing if we had just a seamless existence.
[1:06:58 - 1:07:04] ▶
There, if there's no bad, then there's no good.
[1:07:04 - 1:07:08] ▶
You know, if there's no, uh, falling, then there's no getting up.
[1:07:08 - 1:07:11] ▶
And so I think, I think in order for us to be physical, you need both components.
[1:07:12 - 1:07:17] ▶
You need the yin and the yang, the good, the bad, the up, the down.
[1:07:17 - 1:07:19] ▶
And that contrast and that balance is very important to sort of self-sustain.
[1:07:19 - 1:07:24] ▶
Maybe that's the thing they don't have in this other dimension.
[1:07:24 - 1:07:28] ▶
Maybe everything is instant manifestation.
[1:07:28 - 1:07:30] ▶
And it's easily attained.
[1:07:31 - 1:07:32] ▶
And for them, you know, it's, it's, it's much more of, um, you know, it's a much more value to maybe incarnate or, you know, instantiate in physical forms to walk through the mud slowly.
[1:07:32 - 1:07:47] ▶
And, and manifest something over a lifetime, you know, that's filled with values and, and character building moments that maybe that's something that they need for their model or whatever.
[1:07:48 - 1:07:58] ▶
I mean, we, we well could be going, undergoing some kind of gestation here.
[1:08:01 - 1:08:04] ▶
And it seems like that there's even, you know, that's a common sort of trope in new age spirituality, right?
[1:08:04 - 1:08:09] ▶
Like this is a school.
[1:08:09 - 1:08:10] ▶
This is like, you know, we're here to learn.
[1:08:10 - 1:08:12] ▶
And I, and I'm always like, yeah, I, I think that there could be truth to that, but that also seems a little too simplistic because we're, we're, there's a lot of things that happen here that cause no learning.
[1:08:12 - 1:08:22] ▶
It's just, there are things that are unfortunate and yeah, they might build character indirectly, but that's, that cannot be the best way to go about doing that.
[1:08:23 - 1:08:32] ▶
Um, and it puts us in the center of the universe once again.
[1:08:32 - 1:08:35] ▶
And, and I don't know, man, that, that, that's a whole separate topic.
[1:08:38 - 1:08:40] ▶
I don't want to lose my train of thought.
[1:08:40 - 1:08:41] ▶
Where was I going with this?
[1:08:41 - 1:08:42] ▶
Um, I know I was, I was headed toward some sort of like platonic point, but now, now I'm forgetting, uh, what it was.
[1:08:42 - 1:08:51] ▶
That's divine intervention right there, Michael.
[1:08:51 - 1:08:53] ▶
Maybe it was, maybe it was.
[1:08:54 - 1:08:55] ▶
They were like, you're getting too close to the truth.
[1:08:55 - 1:08:57] ▶
Wipe this man's memory.
[1:08:57 - 1:08:58] ▶
Um, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try to walk my way through it.
[1:08:58 - 1:09:02] ▶
So I was thinking about a couple of different things having to do with Plato.
[1:09:02 - 1:09:06] ▶
One, one thing is that there was actually this idea of what we were talking about, like errors in the code.
[1:09:06 - 1:09:11] ▶
Obviously they didn't have that language, but, um, in probably the most difficult platonic dialogue, which is different than all the rest of them, it's called Timaeus.
[1:09:11 - 1:09:19] ▶
Um, this guy named Timaeus, who's supposed to be a Pythagorean sage comes and gives a lecture to Socrates and all the students.
[1:09:19 - 1:09:27] ▶
And he gives the whole story of, you know, God's tried to bless me.
[1:09:27 - 1:09:32] ▶
I'm gonna try to tell you how we believe reality was constructed.
[1:09:32 - 1:09:36] ▶
And then it goes into this whole, you know, harmonic, mathematical, um, geometric sort of, uh, story of how the divine mind created reality.
[1:09:36 - 1:09:47] ▶
Um, and for everybody watching, this is the demiurge, but it's not the evil demiurge.
[1:09:47 - 1:09:51] ▶
The evil demiurge comes much later.
[1:09:51 - 1:09:53] ▶
So not to be confused with the demi-gorgon.
[1:09:53 - 1:09:55] ▶
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah.
[1:09:55 - 1:09:57] ▶
I love Stranger Things by the way. Stranger Things was such a fantastic show.
[1:09:57 - 1:10:01] ▶
But, um, yeah, so basically the demiurge is using these divine transcendent non-physical principles to create a work of art more or less using those principles.
[1:10:01 - 1:10:13] ▶
But he's aware of the fact that it will be imperfect because you're taking these non-physical things like, you know, where does a triangle exist?
[1:10:13 - 1:10:22] ▶
Not here, but yet it does exist in everyone's mind.
[1:10:22 - 1:10:25] ▶
So if you make even the most perfect triangle, it won't be perfect.
[1:10:25 - 1:10:30] ▶
You can like get it down to like a micron of error, but there will always be an error.
[1:10:30 - 1:10:33] ▶
So there's this idea they build into this construction that they call, I think it's a non-K.
[1:10:33 - 1:10:38] ▶
And they also call, um, the errant cause, which is basically by virtue of doing this, there's, it necessitates a bunch of stuff's going to go wrong.
[1:10:38 - 1:10:48] ▶
And it necessitates that you've got physical complexity of all these different parts and pieces moving around.
[1:10:48 - 1:10:53] ▶
That means they're going to break down.
[1:10:53 - 1:10:55] ▶
That means it's going to have all of these other things happen downstream of it, which to us will be suffering. Right.
[1:10:55 - 1:11:01] ▶
So in that way, you could conceive of something being both problematic and seeming even evil. Right.
[1:11:01 - 1:11:09] ▶
Like that's why the, the, why would you create something just to have it be imperfect? Right.
[1:11:09 - 1:11:13] ▶
And yeah. And painful. Yeah.
[1:11:13 - 1:11:14] ▶
But yet it's like a natural thing and we're doing the same thing on our level, right?
[1:11:14 - 1:11:18] ▶
Like you've created all of this awesome stuff.
[1:11:18 - 1:11:20] ▶
Like we're all trying to do that in our, we're all, we're all little demiurges of our own universe, or we, we should be.
[1:11:20 - 1:11:26] ▶
I think we should be, I think that's part of the point of being human, but in doing that, you're going to indirectly make a bunch of mistakes and, you know, make some enemies maybe.
[1:11:26 - 1:11:35] ▶
And, but that's not your intention. Right.
[1:11:35 - 1:11:37] ▶
Mm-hmm . And I think that's pr, it's probably something like that all the way up if I had to get.
[1:11:37 - 1:11:42] ▶
Yeah. But it also, like I said, it also does kind of help.
[1:11:42 - 1:11:46] ▶
You know, it feeds the model. Yeah.
[1:11:46 - 1:11:48] ▶
Once again, like all of these little errors, although you might not see how it helps you. Mm-hmm .
[1:11:48 - 1:11:55] ▶
That doesn't mean that it doesn't. You, you don't live for maybe as long as you need to, to see the result.
[1:11:56 - 1:12:00] ▶
You know what I mean? Like, if you, if you look at the tragedies that have happened, um, over the last century, and you look at, oh, the war or, you know, so many terrible things have happened to a lot of people.
[1:12:01 - 1:12:13] ▶
But if you fast forward perhaps a few hundred years from that point, and you realize that the technology that was derived from those, you know, pressure cooking moments. Yeah.
[1:12:14 - 1:12:23] ▶
Um, actually ended up creating, you know, hopefully a more sustainable, peaceful, um, existence on the planet. Right.
[1:12:23 - 1:12:32] ▶
So that's that sort of Taoist, there is no good, there is no bad. You just don't have enough. Um, you can't zoom out enough to see it. You know, where was that old story of the guy, you know, the, the farmer who lost his horse.
[1:12:32 - 1:12:47] ▶
And then the neighbor's like, oh, that's bad. And he's like, and he's like, I don't know if it's good or bad. And then he wins it back. Cause he like won some lottery and the, you know, the guy goes, oh, it's good. And he goes, I don't know if it's good or bad. And then his son rides the horse one day and falls off and breaks his leg. And the neighbor goes, that's bad. And he's like, I don't know, you know, I don't know what's good or bad. And then conscription came around because there was a war and they couldn't draft him cause he had a broken leg.
[1:12:47 - 1:13:14] ▶
So the neighbor goes, oh, that's good. You know, and so on and so forth. It's like, you don't know what's good. And so us, so for us to say something's good or bad, I think is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I think it's more of, does this help the model grow? And I think the answer is overwhelmingly yes.
[1:13:15 - 1:13:34] ▶
Even if it does seem incredibly pointless and evil and meaningless, I think still, um, something comes from it.
[1:13:34 - 1:13:43] ▶
Yeah. Going back to weird lore and weird overlaps between esoteric and potentially UFO stuff. Um, there's one link that I don't hear people talking about very often, which I think is very worth exploring, which is, um, there's this whole sect of people who are interested in the phenomenon.
[1:13:43 - 1:14:02] ▶
That's like following the whole weird Nazi rabbit hole, right?
[1:14:02 - 1:14:05] ▶
Of these like, of these like hyper-Borean, um, beings that might be like the Nordics or whatever.
[1:14:06 - 1:14:12] ▶
I actually don't, I actually think that's a misnomer. I think the hyper-Borean aren't the Nordics.
[1:14:12 - 1:14:16] ▶
Yeah. I think it was a different race, but yeah.
[1:14:17 - 1:14:19] ▶
Well, that's, that's sort of a, an aside.
[1:14:19 - 1:14:22] ▶
Aside the point, yeah.
[1:14:22 - 1:14:23] ▶
But, um, but anyway, you know, who else was obsessed with the hyper-Boreans was the ancient Greeks.
[1:14:23 - 1:14:28] ▶
Because, um, they had these tales of these sort of supermen sages basically who came from hyper-Borea.
[1:14:29 - 1:14:37] ▶
So somewhere in the far north and they could do all of these insane things.
[1:14:37 - 1:14:41] ▶
Like they could be said to, uh, you know, transform into ravens.
[1:14:41 - 1:14:45] ▶
Uh, they could bi-locate.
[1:14:45 - 1:14:47] ▶
They could basically do what sounds exactly like remote viewing.
[1:14:47 - 1:14:50] ▶
Um, so like a Baris, the hyper-Borean is one.
[1:14:50 - 1:14:53] ▶
And I, I get some of these people confused with one another because they have similar feats.
[1:14:53 - 1:14:57] ▶
But Pythagoras is also said to be in this lineage.
[1:14:57 - 1:15:00] ▶
Um, and like Plato is right downstream of this lineage because he's also said to be a Pythagorean initiate as well.
[1:15:00 - 1:15:08] ▶
So there's this idea that there's this high wisdom that came way from somewhere in the like remote, remote north from these beings that were more, definitely more than just regular men that were super wise.
[1:15:08 - 1:15:21] ▶
And they're also wonder workers and stuff.
[1:15:21 - 1:15:23] ▶
And then you get into this weird Nazi lore that unfortunately gets like super racist very quickly.
[1:15:24 - 1:15:29] ▶
But if you like push all of that stuff aside, the idea that there could be some advanced race that's like polar or from this very weird far north, uh, snowy climate.
[1:15:29 - 1:15:41] ▶
This is something that has reverberated through the ages.
[1:15:41 - 1:15:43] ▶
And I'm really fascinated by this.
[1:15:43 - 1:15:45] ▶
And this is one of my favorite explanations for the phenomenon that there could be some breakaway civilization group here who are basically indistinguishable from these really advanced esoteric initiates.
[1:15:45 - 1:15:55] ▶
And they might have a whole different branch of technology that looks more like what you saw in ancient Egyptian temple craft.
[1:15:55 - 1:16:03] ▶
And, you know, like megalithic where we look at those civilizations and we're like, they had some crazy technology.
[1:16:03 - 1:16:09] ▶
We don't understand some Stargate stuff.
[1:16:09 - 1:16:11] ▶
What were they doing?
[1:16:11 - 1:16:12] ▶
Maybe that maybe it's this kind of stuff, you know, maybe it's these people who are closer to some sort of source, or maybe they keep themselves cloistered or both.
[1:16:12 - 1:16:24] ▶
And they still exist, but they're careful about disseminating or showing themselves, or maybe they've, uh, you know, infiltrated valiant Thor style and they're sorted.
[1:16:24 - 1:16:33] ▶
They look just like us and they're just hanging out.
[1:16:33 - 1:16:35] ▶
Um, I think that's a possibility.
[1:16:35 - 1:16:37] ▶
I totally think it's possible.
[1:16:37 - 1:16:38] ▶
I've heard too many stories.
[1:16:38 - 1:16:39] ▶
I actually hope that that's true.
[1:16:39 - 1:16:41] ▶
Makes it way cooler.
[1:16:44 - 1:16:45] ▶
Makes it way cooler.
[1:16:46 - 1:16:47] ▶
And, and, and it, once again, uh, puts the ball in our court.
[1:16:47 - 1:16:48] ▶
Like it, it doesn't seem so nihilistic as, as, as a lot of this, you know, uh, talk does.
[1:16:48 - 1:16:54] ▶
When you, when you inevitably talk about these super intelligent beings that we have no concept of, you know, just, it, it introduces nihilism.
[1:16:54 - 1:17:03] ▶
Like you can't not be nihilistic.
[1:17:03 - 1:17:05] ▶
You have to eventually let go because after all the other stages of grief, you're gonna, you're gonna end up just being like, all right, I guess I don't care, you know, cause otherwise it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's all consuming.
[1:17:06 - 1:17:20] ▶
Um, but yeah, but those don't have to be mutually exclusive either.
[1:17:21 - 1:17:24] ▶
You know, we could all be living under the same dome of interdimensional beings that are controlling, you know, everything.
[1:17:25 - 1:17:30] ▶
They just might have a slightly better grasp of maybe how to interact with it or how to spot it.
[1:17:30 - 1:17:35] ▶
My suspicion is that there might be some sort of bridge group and whether this is like a, from like deep within the military industrial complex, or it is like a almost theos, theosophical, uh, you know, invisible college.
[1:17:37 - 1:17:52] ▶
Um, maybe it's something like that, but I suspect that that could be true.
[1:17:57 - 1:17:59] ▶
And I also really want it to be true that there are like these high esoteric adepts that are in touch with the higher forces and, and working on behalf of the good.
[1:17:59 - 1:18:14] ▶
It's my favorite pro noiac conspiracy.
[1:18:15 - 1:18:16] ▶
So many stories I've heard, you know, people have contacted me and left me messages who I've talked to a lot of them.
[1:18:19 - 1:18:25] ▶
Write me of these interactions where they're just standing there and one recently, a lady, she was in a store and she sees two, two people, man and woman.
[1:18:25 - 1:18:35] ▶
They're gorgeous by all physical standards.
[1:18:35 - 1:18:40] ▶
And they're wearing what she describes as strange clothes.
[1:18:40 - 1:18:45] ▶
Uh, that's, uh, made of material that she couldn't readily identify, but it was beautiful.
[1:18:46 - 1:18:50] ▶
And flowy and sort of, they're just standing there.
[1:18:51 - 1:18:54] ▶
And she's staring at them.
[1:18:54 - 1:18:56] ▶
And then she hears in her mind, the female go, she can see us.
[1:18:56 - 1:19:01] ▶
And then the man go, don't be silly.
[1:19:01 - 1:19:04] ▶
This is just like that Ingo Swann story.
[1:19:05 - 1:19:07] ▶
This is exactly like the Ingo Swann story.
[1:19:07 - 1:19:08] ▶
It's exactly like the story that, um, Richard Dolan told me about the girl at church.
[1:19:08 - 1:19:13] ▶
It's the story of the guy that, uh, told me when he was in the hardware store getting the copper rod with the two tall six foot nine women twins looking at him.
[1:19:13 - 1:19:23] ▶
I told you this story?
[1:19:23 - 1:19:24] ▶
Tell it again though.
[1:19:27 - 1:19:28] ▶
He's picking up a eight foot copper rod for some grounding issues that he's, uh, fixing at his house.
[1:19:28 - 1:19:33] ▶
And all of a sudden he's in North Carolina.
[1:19:33 - 1:19:35] ▶
It's middle of summer.
[1:19:35 - 1:19:37] ▶
So it's like blaring 95 degrees, humid heat.
[1:19:37 - 1:19:41] ▶
And these two six foot nine gorgeous women with long red hair who are dressed identically, who look identical.
[1:19:41 - 1:19:49] ▶
And they're both wearing sort of tucked in flannel shirts into jeans.
[1:19:49 - 1:19:53] ▶
Mind you, summer heat wave.
[1:19:53 - 1:19:54] ▶
And they're walking in lockstep with these giant strides towards him.
[1:19:55 - 1:20:00] ▶
Now looking at this, your first thought, and he, this is what he says.
[1:20:00 - 1:20:05] ▶
He's like, you're looking for the cameras.
[1:20:05 - 1:20:06] ▶
You're like, where are the cameras?
[1:20:07 - 1:20:08] ▶
Like where are the hidden cameras?
[1:20:08 - 1:20:09] ▶
This is obviously a prank show.
[1:20:09 - 1:20:10] ▶
Like that's the first thing that goes through your mind.
[1:20:11 - 1:20:13] ▶
And the second thing that goes through his mind is why isn't anyone else looking at these two?
[1:20:13 - 1:20:18] ▶
Because it's such a fricking sight to behold.
[1:20:19 - 1:20:22] ▶
These alien basketball players lunging up the aisle.
[1:20:22 - 1:20:25] ▶
And so he's kind of a little bit freaked out, kind of enamored by what he's seeing.
[1:20:25 - 1:20:32] ▶
Um, he ends up eventually going into the line of the cashier.
[1:20:32 - 1:20:36] ▶
And, uh, now he's in this sort of checkout line with all these impulse bisection items.
[1:20:36 - 1:20:42] ▶
And behind him, you know, stand these two tall women, one of them staring directly at him intensely as he looks over at her.
[1:20:42 - 1:20:49] ▶
And the other one just kind of blankly staring forward.
[1:20:49 - 1:20:51] ▶
They have nothing in their hands and they're waiting at the checkout.
[1:20:51 - 1:20:54] ▶
Um, he grabs a flashlight at the impulse bisection, you know, and looks at it.
[1:20:55 - 1:21:00] ▶
So, okay, I'll buy this.
[1:21:00 - 1:21:01] ▶
The one behind him reaches awkwardly around him.
[1:21:01 - 1:21:06] ▶
Like, so weird and grabs the same item and just holds it.
[1:21:06 - 1:21:11] ▶
And he's like, okay.
[1:21:11 - 1:21:13] ▶
The lady, the cash says, okay, you know, next.
[1:21:13 - 1:21:16] ▶
And he's like, finally, someone else has to deal with this shit.
[1:21:16 - 1:21:19] ▶
After you, they don't acknowledge him.
[1:21:21 - 1:21:22] ▶
They don't say thank you.
[1:21:22 - 1:21:23] ▶
They don't look at him.
[1:21:23 - 1:21:24] ▶
The transaction lasts three seconds.
[1:21:25 - 1:21:27] ▶
And then they start walking out the door.
[1:21:30 - 1:21:31] ▶
No bags, no receipt, no credit card was used, no money, nothing.
[1:21:31 - 1:21:34] ▶
They just kind of walk out.
[1:21:34 - 1:21:36] ▶
So he rushes up to the cashier and goes, that was weird.
[1:21:36 - 1:21:40] ▶
And he looks over and they're about 30 feet away at this point.
[1:21:43 - 1:21:47] ▶
One of them stops, rears her head.
[1:21:47 - 1:21:50] ▶
And in his words, she was fucking pissed and looks at him and starts lunging towards him,
[1:21:50 - 1:21:56] ▶
clears about half the 30 feet in three strides.
[1:21:56 - 1:21:59] ▶
And at which point he's frozen in terror.
[1:21:59 - 1:22:01] ▶
He doesn't know what's happening.
[1:22:02 - 1:22:03] ▶
And he hears in his head, this screaming female voice goes, stop.
[1:22:03 - 1:22:08] ▶
What he perceived as that was the other one.
[1:22:10 - 1:22:12] ▶
And she turns around, walks up to the other one and in lockstep, they walk out of the store.
[1:22:12 - 1:22:17] ▶
He goes, I shoplifted that day.
[1:22:19 - 1:22:20] ▶
I've never stolen anything in my life.
[1:22:20 - 1:22:21] ▶
And no one stopped me.
[1:22:21 - 1:22:22] ▶
He's like, I just grabbed the pole, grabbed the flashlight, ran out the door to see if I can spot them.
[1:22:22 - 1:22:27] ▶
Now, since then I've thought, did it have something to do with the copper rod?
[1:22:28 - 1:22:32] ▶
Is the copper rod some type of like, I can see you now, like a device.
[1:22:33 - 1:22:37] ▶
Um, but you know, all jokes aside, those stories are very, very prominent.
[1:22:37 - 1:22:44] ▶
Um, they're one of the high strangeness stories that you hear aside from, you know, meeting the greys, reptilians, shape shifting, phase shifting, whatever.
[1:22:45 - 1:22:53] ▶
You hear these stories of them walking among us.
[1:22:53 - 1:22:56] ▶
Another similar story to that effect is, I believe I also heard from Dolan for the first time.
[1:22:56 - 1:23:01] ▶
I don't, I think it might be in the alien agendas book, but it's a, it's, um, it might be Fazio Cardano.
[1:23:01 - 1:23:10] ▶
And it was in the sort of, um, Renaissance era.
[1:23:10 - 1:23:13] ▶
It's like 500 years ago.
[1:23:13 - 1:23:14] ▶
And these three, like guys who look like Greek sages walked into his, I don't remember where it was, if it was his house or where they were.
[1:23:14 - 1:23:22] ▶
But these guys who were dressed in like beautiful flowing Greek robes sat down in front of him and had a conversation with him.
[1:23:22 - 1:23:29] ▶
And I can't remember the.
[1:23:29 - 1:23:30] ▶
They said they were from the future or something.
[1:23:30 - 1:23:32] ▶
They were, I think they said that they were adepts of a certain school and they all had their own schools.
[1:23:33 - 1:23:38] ▶
And you know, they were almost, they're like these Plato, Pythagoras, like sage guys.
[1:23:38 - 1:23:43] ▶
But they're, but yeah, they were saying all things, all sorts of things to him that were evocative of esoteric and even.
[1:23:43 - 1:23:51] ▶
They were asking him about it, about their, his belief in God.
[1:23:51 - 1:23:54] ▶
And they were all very interested in that.
[1:23:55 - 1:23:56] ▶
And I think they're, yeah, they're talking about all sorts of.
[1:23:57 - 1:23:59] ▶
And then when they were asked about God, they're like, we can't talk about that or something.
[1:23:59 - 1:24:03] ▶
There was like something.
[1:24:03 - 1:24:04] ▶
This might be worth looking up cause it's a really interesting story, but I don't know if I could find it quickly.
[1:24:05 - 1:24:08] ▶
I think we could find it.
[1:24:11 - 1:24:12] ▶
I think, and I think it might not be Cardano, but his son or something.
[1:24:12 - 1:24:15] ▶
I think, well, I think Cardano is the last name if I.
[1:24:16 - 1:24:18] ▶
Uh, let's see if you can find it first.
[1:24:19 - 1:24:21] ▶
Gior, Gior, Gior, Gior, Gior, Gior, Cardano.
[1:24:34 - 1:24:38] ▶
15th century Italian physician and lawyer, Fazio Cardano, uh, was a friend of Leonardo da Vinci and noted occultist. Rumors spread that he was in communication with a demon. A story Cardano spread himself.
[1:24:38 - 1:24:51] ▶
Oh yeah. That, this is a separate story.
[1:24:51 - 1:24:52] ▶
This is a separate story.
[1:24:52 - 1:24:53] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:24:53 - 1:24:54] ▶
Cause I think it's supposed to be like his daimon. I think it's like supposed to be like, he was in touch with his daimon.
[1:24:55 - 1:25:00] ▶
So what's a daimon for people listening?
[1:25:00 - 1:25:01] ▶
Oh man. So this is one of my favorite esoteric rabbit holes that I don't, I don't want to derail this story.
[1:25:01 - 1:25:05] ▶
Anthony Peake is, is a big fan of the daimon too.
[1:25:05 - 1:25:07] ▶
Yeah. And his take on it is very related, but iterative off of the main idea. So if you go back, not just to the Greek world, but basically the entire Mediterranean and probably beyond,
[1:25:07 - 1:25:20] ▶
and also this existed, um, there is an Egyptian version of this idea as well. It's either sometimes called the divine double.
[1:25:20 - 1:25:27] ▶
Like there's a book called the divine double or our divine double, which is written about this topic.
[1:25:27 - 1:25:32] ▶
Um, but the basic idea is that every human soul has a counterpart sort of spirit called the personal, called the daimon basically.
[1:25:32 - 1:25:43] ▶
And it's not demon in the common, you know, understanding. Now it's diamond meaning like a spiritual being essentially.
[1:25:43 - 1:25:52] ▶
And this, um, one of the most famous places this stems from is a story at the end of Plato's Republic called the myth of Ur. Ur is this warrior who is about to be burned on the funeral pyre because he just appears to be a dead body.
[1:25:52 - 1:26:04] ▶
And then he wakes up fully alive, has full memories of the afterlife and how you basically reincarnate and you go through all these various steps.
[1:26:04 - 1:26:14] ▶
But at one step, just before you incarnate, you go in front of the three fates and the, you know, the three fates, like his women who are always portrayed as knitting.
[1:26:14 - 1:26:23] ▶
Mm-hmm . And they're essentially like knitting together to the tapestry of fate. Right. And what they do is they don't let you pick whatever you want for your next life.
[1:26:23 - 1:26:33] ▶
They present you with a list of lots, you know, like imagine like a lot, like of property or whatever. Um, but they, they present you these lots basically like you can choose from these for your next life based on who you are, what you've done your, your path so far.
[1:26:33 - 1:26:47] ▶
You choose that and it locks you into this fate basically. And then as you're reincarnating, you completely get your memory wiped as you're coming back down to earth.
[1:26:47 - 1:26:58] ▶
You're going, you're proceeding through the celestial spheres. You go through these various bands. Uh, one of them is called leafy leafy wipes your mind.
[1:26:58 - 1:27:06] ▶
So you don't remember whatever you chose. And this is by design, but you have the diamond with you who does know what you chose.
[1:27:06 - 1:27:13] ▶
So you can extrapolate all of these different things from this.
[1:27:13 - 1:27:16] ▶
I mean, journey of souls kind of falls exactly.
[1:27:16 - 1:27:19] ▶
I know. Yeah. Um, so.
[1:27:21 - 1:27:24] ▶
One of my favorite books also to, to continue this rabbit hole is called souls code is written by, uh, another psychologist who's very young influence named James Hillman.
[1:27:25 - 1:27:35] ▶
Uh, James Hillman comes up with his own, uh, archetypal psychology, but it's still very union in a lot of ways with some important differences.
[1:27:35 - 1:27:42] ▶
But anyway, his most famous book is called souls code. And it's all about how important this idea of the personal diamond is from a, a personal kind of sense-making, um, sort of POV.
[1:27:42 - 1:27:54] ▶
And he gives all these biographical examples of people who just struggled their whole life in school and being, trying to, uh, play all these different social roles because they literally came into this life.
[1:27:54 - 1:28:05] ▶
Like you're supposed to be a singer. You're supposed to be a ballet dancer. You're supposed to be an accountant. And at every turn, when life tries to force them out of that box, it's like everything is going wrong.
[1:28:05 - 1:28:17] ▶
They're having all these mental problems. They're having, you know, their life is falling apart and it's all because they're basically fighting their diamond. Like their diamond is like, no, this is what you are. And if you try to fight against what you are, instead of discover what you are, you're going to have all kinds of problems.
[1:28:17 - 1:28:32] ▶
So it's, it's really interesting from like a personal sense-making POV, particularly when you're traveling a weird life path, right? Like, I think it's true for everyone, but for you, for me, people who are creative and feel like, I don't know why, but I just got to do this thing.
[1:28:32 - 1:28:48] ▶
I don't know why I want to start a podcast. I just want to start a podcast. And then you just, every time you like a muse, it's, it's very much like the muse. Yeah. It's very much like the muse in that the muse inspires, but the diamond is sort of the, uh, guide. Yeah.
[1:28:48 - 1:29:03] ▶
Yeah. Like the taskmaster or the one that's trying to keep you on track, but it's very subtle. And in a lot of these, it's bringing it back to Cardano. If you look into a lot of these Western esoteric traditions, one of the main things they're trying to get you to do is get an open dialogue going with your diamond.
[1:29:03 - 1:29:22] ▶
And if you can actually get the diamond to like manifest in front of you, that is considered to be like a major, major moment. And you are elevated very highly on your path after that point.
[1:29:22 - 1:29:32] ▶
So, so yeah, that's one of those things I've been.
[1:29:33 - 1:29:35] ▶
What is the diamond? Is the diamond, um, in, in, in any lore or stories is the manifestation of the diamond, like a concise image or is it, is it just something you make up?
[1:29:35 - 1:29:48] ▶
See, that's one of those things that I personally would love to know the answer to, because I think I really struggle to believe it would appear to you like an anthropomorphic guy.
[1:29:48 - 1:30:01] ▶
Yet I've also told you that one story about my, uh.
[1:30:01 - 1:30:04] ▶
Like my one experience where I'm like, I think that was really an entity.
[1:30:08 - 1:30:13] ▶
I think I really encountered an entity.
[1:30:14 - 1:30:16] ▶
This is your ayahuasca trip.
[1:30:16 - 1:30:17] ▶
That could have been the diamond.
[1:30:19 - 1:30:20] ▶
It, it, it had that kind of.
[1:30:21 - 1:30:22] ▶
Like you're, you're on the right path, buddy.
[1:30:23 - 1:30:25] ▶
Just keep doing your thing.
[1:30:25 - 1:30:26] ▶
I'm gonna, you need anything else?
[1:30:27 - 1:30:28] ▶
They always seem so playful.
[1:30:29 - 1:30:30] ▶
In my case, in this, in this particular.
[1:30:31 - 1:30:34] ▶
I had gone through a lot of things that were not playful to get to that point.
[1:30:36 - 1:30:39] ▶
It's like shitting and pissing and farting and puking.
[1:30:39 - 1:30:42] ▶
Complete purging of, uh, of all your bodily fluids.
[1:30:43 - 1:30:46] ▶
Whenever I hear people tell, oh, I had such a beautiful Aya experience.
[1:30:46 - 1:30:51] ▶
I was just, Mother Ayahuasca was holding.
[1:30:51 - 1:30:54] ▶
It was nothing like that for me, dude.
[1:30:54 - 1:30:55] ▶
Mother Ayahuasca had her fist down your throat.
[1:30:58 - 1:31:00] ▶
It felt incredibly demonic, man, for a lot.
[1:31:00 - 1:31:04] ▶
Like not demonic, but demonic.
[1:31:05 - 1:31:07] ▶
The whole, I would say 80% of the experience was just, um, deep dysphoric dis-ease.
[1:31:07 - 1:31:15] ▶
I've opened myself up spiritually to all of these terrible lower astral forces.
[1:31:16 - 1:31:22] ▶
And I, like, it was a tormenting experience.
[1:31:22 - 1:31:25] ▶
You're surrounded by screaming people.
[1:31:25 - 1:31:27] ▶
People who are working through trauma and almost feeling embarrassed because I'm just
[1:31:28 - 1:31:33] ▶
there as like, I'm a seeker.
[1:31:33 - 1:31:34] ▶
I just want to find my path.
[1:31:35 - 1:31:36] ▶
And then you're hearing these stories of people who had the, I won't even like try to make
[1:31:36 - 1:31:40] ▶
a joke version of it because it's genuinely like some of the worst trauma you've ever heard
[1:31:40 - 1:31:44] ▶
And they're, they're trying to work on that.
[1:31:45 - 1:31:47] ▶
And you're sitting there in the chair being like, yeah, I just, you know, I want to, I'm
[1:31:47 - 1:31:52] ▶
I want to get answers.
[1:31:53 - 1:31:54] ▶
Um, so maybe that was part of it.
[1:31:54 - 1:31:57] ▶
Maybe it was just, there's so much negativity being discharged in the room that there's an
[1:31:57 - 1:32:01] ▶
overwhelming, uh, aura of negativity that's slowly being dispelled or, um, purified or something.
[1:32:01 - 1:32:09] ▶
But yeah, it took me three full nights of drinking to break through.
[1:32:09 - 1:32:14] ▶
Um, to that, what, what just felt like this unbelievably placid, beautiful astral kind
[1:32:14 - 1:32:21] ▶
of POV where there was this entity there that was just this perfect embodiment of the wise
[1:32:21 - 1:32:28] ▶
Like you instantly know, like, this is a super highly, highly elevated intelligence that I'm
[1:32:29 - 1:32:34] ▶
And it's not the kind of, you're going to be okay, buddy, like that your friend would
[1:32:36 - 1:32:40] ▶
And it was like a, a knowing kind of advice or a knowing kind of bestowal of information
[1:32:41 - 1:32:46] ▶
that this thing was giving me.
[1:32:46 - 1:32:48] ▶
And when I say it with words, it sounds like the most cliche advice of all time, but it
[1:32:48 - 1:32:53] ▶
really felt like a deep, deep anamnesis moment or noesis or gnosis kind of moment when.
[1:32:53 - 1:32:59] ▶
And you've carried that with you or has that faded?
[1:32:59 - 1:33:03] ▶
I think it inevitably fades, but I also.
[1:33:03 - 1:33:06] ▶
So there's like a lifetime on, there's like a shelf life for that stuff.
[1:33:07 - 1:33:10] ▶
In a way, but I do still believe it.
[1:33:11 - 1:33:12] ▶
I do still, I would say that is one of the experiences I hold in the highest regard in
[1:33:12 - 1:33:18] ▶
my life to, to a point where it's almost like maybe I shouldn't even talk about it because
[1:33:18 - 1:33:23] ▶
there's no way I can really communicate what it was like being in that moment.
[1:33:23 - 1:33:26] ▶
And I've never had an experience.
[1:33:26 - 1:33:27] ▶
And you dilute it by doing so.
[1:33:27 - 1:33:28] ▶
It could be, it could be, but yeah, whatever that was, I have pretty high conviction that
[1:33:30 - 1:33:34] ▶
that was another being that was not me.
[1:33:34 - 1:33:37] ▶
That was something else.
[1:33:37 - 1:33:38] ▶
And I don't know what, what name to put on it.
[1:33:38 - 1:33:41] ▶
If it's a daimon, if it's a, an angel, like a guide.
[1:33:41 - 1:33:45] ▶
There's the, I mean, the word genius too.
[1:33:47 - 1:33:49] ▶
Is the attended one, right?
[1:33:50 - 1:33:51] ▶
Very similar idea to daimon.
[1:33:53 - 1:33:54] ▶
So that's, that's kind of the Greek or the words the Romans would use for the same concept
[1:33:55 - 1:33:59] ▶
is the, is the genius.
[1:33:59 - 1:34:00] ▶
Or sometimes you'll see tutelary spirit.
[1:34:00 - 1:34:02] ▶
It's kind of confusing because when you're reading these texts, like if you read a, you
[1:34:03 - 1:34:06] ▶
know, a certain translation of, um, uh, Plotinus or something, there's a chapter called
[1:34:06 - 1:34:11] ▶
on the tutelary spirit, but the Greek is on the daimon, like on the allotted daimon.
[1:34:11 - 1:34:16] ▶
So yeah, it's a very interesting topic.
[1:34:16 - 1:34:19] ▶
And from the perspective of non-human intelligence, that would be the closest to non-human intelligence
[1:34:19 - 1:34:26] ▶
to you would be this kind of attendant spirit.
[1:34:26 - 1:34:29] ▶
And it survives in the idea of the, of the guardian angel.
[1:34:29 - 1:34:32] ▶
But for most people, that's become a very kind of cartoonish idea.
[1:34:32 - 1:34:35] ▶
Um, and, and this is a thing that would not necessarily be, it's basically neutral.
[1:34:36 - 1:34:42] ▶
It's not super benevolent, nor is it malevolent at all.
[1:34:42 - 1:34:45] ▶
And that's another thing you'll find in a lot of these esoteric texts is that this whole
[1:34:47 - 1:34:51] ▶
class of beings called daimons or daimones.
[1:34:51 - 1:34:54] ▶
They're not good or bad by and large.
[1:34:54 - 1:34:57] ▶
They're usually neutral and they have a job.
[1:34:57 - 1:34:59] ▶
Like they're preserving something in nature or they're doing something or they're messengers
[1:34:59 - 1:35:03] ▶
or they're whatever.
[1:35:03 - 1:35:06] ▶
So again, huge overlaps with the phenomenon.
[1:35:06 - 1:35:09] ▶
And I think it, it seems to me like people like Valet are going much more in this kind
[1:35:09 - 1:35:14] ▶
of a direction with how they interpret things.
[1:35:14 - 1:35:17] ▶
And on that note, it's also interesting that we were talking about Rosicrucians before he's
[1:35:17 - 1:35:22] ▶
become so personally, it seems like aligned with that whole school of thought, which again,
[1:35:22 - 1:35:27] ▶
is an emanation of exactly what I'm talking about here.
[1:35:27 - 1:35:29] ▶
I mean, that's very, it's, it's all very interesting for sure because it, it, you know, the, the very
[1:35:35 - 1:35:41] ▶
nature of it though is metaphorical.
[1:35:41 - 1:35:44] ▶
Like everything that you've said can be applied to something, you know, and I think that's
[1:35:44 - 1:35:51] ▶
what the allure is there with comparing Greek mythology to ufology.
[1:35:51 - 1:35:56] ▶
In that it's, it's, it's just this perfect way to explain things in, in a representative
[1:35:57 - 1:36:07] ▶
How do you reconcile if these physical things are real?
[1:36:09 - 1:36:15] ▶
Like if the physical craft are real in a hangar somewhere or these eggs on the range at Northrop
[1:36:15 - 1:36:21] ▶
Grummond or whatever, or the beings themselves, be it Nordic gray or mantis like, and their
[1:36:21 - 1:36:28] ▶
bodies that they found in the crafts.
[1:36:28 - 1:36:30] ▶
How do you reconcile all of that with this idea of Western esotericism or Greek mythology?
[1:36:30 - 1:36:38] ▶
How do you, how do you marry the two?
[1:36:38 - 1:36:40] ▶
Well, first of all, I don't know if I can, but I can try.
[1:36:40 - 1:36:42] ▶
And I think people like Keel did a pretty good summation of, of the argument I would put
[1:36:42 - 1:36:48] ▶
forward, which is so for people that don't know John Keel, he eventually develops this
[1:36:48 - 1:36:55] ▶
theory called the ultra terrestrial theory, which is essentially that whatever these beings
[1:36:55 - 1:37:00] ▶
are, they're from an extended layer of reality that we don't know how to sense yet.
[1:37:00 - 1:37:07] ▶
It's, it's somewhere deeper in the electromagnetic spectrum.
[1:37:07 - 1:37:10] ▶
It's somewhere not necessarily in a different dimension, but, but in that direction, it's, it's
[1:37:10 - 1:37:16] ▶
minds that are existing on another plane of reality, basically that can instantiate here
[1:37:16 - 1:37:23] ▶
physically, but they're subtle before they're gross, but things.
[1:37:23 - 1:37:28] ▶
So, so a, a UFO would be some kind of a subtle energetic thing, and then it would solidify
[1:37:28 - 1:37:36] ▶
into some kind of form.
[1:37:36 - 1:37:38] ▶
And to me, that makes sense with things like the eggs, because the eggs do, I've heard
[1:37:38 - 1:37:41] ▶
multiple people surmise, including one of the psionic asset dudes from, um, Skywatcher,
[1:37:41 - 1:37:47] ▶
say that he thinks those things are manifesting.
[1:37:47 - 1:37:49] ▶
Like he thinks those things are almost like apporting from, you know, the spirit realm.
[1:37:49 - 1:37:53] ▶
Cause they seem to be dropping.
[1:37:53 - 1:37:55] ▶
They seem to be laid like an egg.
[1:37:58 - 1:37:59] ▶
From the sky and dropping into the sand without any fire, any sort of, uh, burn from the atmosphere
[1:38:01 - 1:38:07] ▶
or anything, just kind of like being plopped in the sand.
[1:38:07 - 1:38:10] ▶
And the other thing, you know, I run into is just, you're always trying to make sense of something,
[1:38:12 - 1:38:19] ▶
of unknown provenance.
[1:38:19 - 1:38:20] ▶
So if someone says I had this kind of an entity encounter and they insist it was physical,
[1:38:21 - 1:38:25] ▶
I don't know if that's true, but when I hear so many stories like that in, in a collective,
[1:38:27 - 1:38:33] ▶
I've got to just be like, okay, I don't need that one guy's story to be true or that one
[1:38:33 - 1:38:37] ▶
guy's story to be true.
[1:38:37 - 1:38:38] ▶
I just have to assume that there's enough going on here that I better put it in my realm of possibilities.
[1:38:38 - 1:38:45] ▶
That's something that could be real.
[1:38:45 - 1:38:47] ▶
And I think obviously that could be real.
[1:38:47 - 1:38:49] ▶
And it could be that one, I mean, you know, you just have to kind of walk through all of
[1:38:49 - 1:38:53] ▶
They really are beings that came from somewhere else physical.
[1:38:54 - 1:38:58] ▶
Or there's some kind of hybrid of physical and non-physical, and they've sort of taken
[1:38:58 - 1:39:02] ▶
on a temporary form to interact with us.
[1:39:02 - 1:39:05] ▶
Or there's some kind of, again, this comes from Neoplatonism and esotericism is-
[1:39:05 - 1:39:11] ▶
Like, well, yeah, egregore is a whole other realm of conversation that we can and maybe
[1:39:13 - 1:39:18] ▶
But it's the idea again, that it's what I was saying before with Jung, where there's
[1:39:20 - 1:39:23] ▶
sort of, it's like this midpoint between whatever it is and whatever you are.
[1:39:23 - 1:39:27] ▶
Like your psyche has to put a form on it and it has a real nature, but its nature isn't
[1:39:27 - 1:39:34] ▶
Whatever its physicality is.
[1:39:35 - 1:39:36] ▶
So their physicality has something to do with your interpretation.
[1:39:36 - 1:39:39] ▶
And whatever they are.
[1:39:40 - 1:39:41] ▶
It's like this weird alchemical-
[1:39:41 - 1:39:42] ▶
Which explains the snakes or the insects or-
[1:39:42 - 1:39:43] ▶
It's like this weird alchemical mixture.
[1:39:45 - 1:39:46] ▶
And which explains why they would look like things that you would recognize here on Earth,
[1:39:46 - 1:39:52] ▶
save maybe the greys.
[1:39:52 - 1:39:53] ▶
You know, for the lyrans or the reptilians or the insectoids.
[1:39:54 - 1:39:59] ▶
Those frog guys from that picture you showed me yesterday.
[1:39:59 - 1:40:01] ▶
Yeah, the frog guys or the bird, the avians or whatever.
[1:40:01 - 1:40:05] ▶
These are all animals that you would find on Earth.
[1:40:05 - 1:40:07] ▶
So either A, they're all plucking from the same gene pool and we're just sort of cosmic cousins
[1:40:07 - 1:40:14] ▶
Or B, like you said, there's some type of instance, the thought of them or the energy that they give
[1:40:14 - 1:40:22] ▶
off is what we would associate a bird like or a lizard like.
[1:40:22 - 1:40:28] ▶
And we kind of project them into reality and help them instantiate, you know, maybe they
[1:40:29 - 1:40:36] ▶
And they're like, what are you making me like this for?
[1:40:38 - 1:40:40] ▶
That's one thing, you know, apparently, you know, you read some of these grimoires and
[1:40:42 - 1:40:46] ▶
you can just compel these beings through essentially, have you ever looked at any of these, like
[1:40:46 - 1:40:51] ▶
the like Lesser Key of Solomon or these books where you are like literally summoning angels
[1:40:51 - 1:40:55] ▶
No, the only, I think the only thing that I've really looked into was, uh, Aleister Crowley's.
[1:40:56 - 1:41:01] ▶
It's from the same kind of chain of, you know, uh, lineage of there's very important
[1:41:03 - 1:41:09] ▶
I don't want to be like, they're all the same, but they're all predicated on kind of similar
[1:41:10 - 1:41:13] ▶
But oftentimes you're pretending to be God, basically.
[1:41:16 - 1:41:18] ▶
You're saying like, I have this divine authority and, you know, through this and through that
[1:41:18 - 1:41:22] ▶
And if you don't do this, I'm gonna like, it's a very aggressive kind of commanding a lot
[1:41:23 - 1:41:27] ▶
And there are some people who don't like this and they've, you know, softened it and whatever.
[1:41:28 - 1:41:31] ▶
But, um, that's kind of, that's what you find in Lesser Key of Solomon is like, you're
[1:41:31 - 1:41:35] ▶
commanding these demons to like manifest in front of you.
[1:41:35 - 1:41:39] ▶
And if you don't, you're gonna like, you know, I have the authority of God to do this to you.
[1:41:39 - 1:41:44] ▶
And then you command these things to do whatever.
[1:41:44 - 1:41:46] ▶
Of course, you gotta be very careful because they want to trick you and they want to, um,
[1:41:46 - 1:41:51] ▶
So, so yeah, maybe, maybe they are doing it against their will sometimes.
[1:41:52 - 1:41:55] ▶
Maybe there could be something to that.
[1:41:55 - 1:41:56] ▶
I haven't, I've dabbled a bit in things, but I haven't, I don't, I don't know, man.
[1:41:56 - 1:42:01] ▶
There's something about that.
[1:42:01 - 1:42:02] ▶
There's some lines I don't want to cross.
[1:42:02 - 1:42:03] ▶
There's some things I almost don't want to know.
[1:42:04 - 1:42:05] ▶
But there is, it is fun to think about too, that like these things that we are essentially
[1:42:05 - 1:42:10] ▶
summoning in the sky, you know, some people don't like using the word summoning, but when
[1:42:10 - 1:42:15] ▶
you're a group of people.
[1:42:15 - 1:42:16] ▶
It looks a lot like summoning.
[1:42:21 - 1:42:22] ▶
Um, especially when the energy levels are pretty much equal across the playing field here.
[1:42:23 - 1:42:28] ▶
We're all trying to make this thing appear.
[1:42:28 - 1:42:31] ▶
That's kind of like a summoning ritual, you know, like, and so when you look at things like
[1:42:31 - 1:42:36] ▶
that or the psionic assets doing the very same thing, or even just, you know, people doing
[1:42:36 - 1:42:41] ▶
it in their homes or whatever it is, it, it does seem like there might be part of that
[1:42:41 - 1:42:47] ▶
where whatever it is they're summoning is just something that wasn't there before.
[1:42:47 - 1:42:52] ▶
And that they're just bringing into existence through, you know, kind of like, almost like,
[1:42:53 - 1:42:58] ▶
you know, you think of, um, uh, Fatima, you know, and, and 60,000 people, what kind of
[1:42:58 - 1:43:04] ▶
a thought form could 60,000 people create if they all believed in the same thing, you know,
[1:43:04 - 1:43:09] ▶
and that might be what they witnessed.
[1:43:09 - 1:43:10] ▶
There's always like multiple, cause this is where we could talk about egregores, right?
[1:43:11 - 1:43:14] ▶
We could say, okay, you're going out there and there's literally this shared intention
[1:43:14 - 1:43:18] ▶
that becomes a field of like psychical exhaust and intention that is just solidifying into
[1:43:18 - 1:43:25] ▶
And this is what's called an egregore in the Western esoteric tradition.
[1:43:26 - 1:43:29] ▶
In the Tibetan tradition, they have a very similar idea called a tulpa, where apparently
[1:43:29 - 1:43:32] ▶
through super intense focus, you can make something appear.
[1:43:32 - 1:43:37] ▶
And there's this legend I won't try to tell about a tulpa that is solidified and then they
[1:43:37 - 1:43:42] ▶
can't get rid of it.
[1:43:42 - 1:43:43] ▶
Sort of like a monkey's paw.
[1:43:43 - 1:43:44] ▶
I don't remember the whole story, but it's, but it's interesting.
[1:43:44 - 1:43:47] ▶
So it's very not, it's not metaphorical.
[1:43:47 - 1:43:50] ▶
Like there's a lot of esoteric traditions that have this notion of egregores.
[1:43:51 - 1:43:56] ▶
And even supposedly, if you have a community of people, like I said this to you, I think
[1:43:56 - 1:44:00] ▶
on another podcast, we did theoretically, there'd be an area 52 egregore.
[1:44:00 - 1:44:03] ▶
There would be a third eye drops egregore.
[1:44:03 - 1:44:05] ▶
That is sort of the shared collective consciousness of everybody who is contributing psychically
[1:44:05 - 1:44:10] ▶
to this thing and participating psychically in this thing.
[1:44:10 - 1:44:14] ▶
And it's a very interesting idea at the very least.
[1:44:14 - 1:44:17] ▶
Again, Anthony Peake, he, that's his go-to explanation for UFOs.
[1:44:17 - 1:44:22] ▶
He thinks a lot of it is egregores and it's just people's minds basically forcing something
[1:44:22 - 1:44:28] ▶
to appear somehow, even if it's unconscious and they don't know that they're doing it.
[1:44:28 - 1:44:32] ▶
It's funny because it's far easier for people to get to, oh, we can manifest things into existence
[1:44:32 - 1:44:39] ▶
through, you know, just thinking about it and thinking positively of the result or whatever.
[1:44:39 - 1:44:45] ▶
And sort of this, what was it called?
[1:44:45 - 1:44:48] ▶
The power of attraction, law of attraction or whatever.
[1:44:48 - 1:44:51] ▶
Like, you know, you think of a blue feather and you'll see a blue feather type deal.
[1:44:51 - 1:44:55] ▶
But then to be like, oh, but you can make UFOs appear.
[1:44:55 - 1:44:57] ▶
They're like, no, like, well, hold on.
[1:44:57 - 1:44:59] ▶
You're essentially talking about the same thing here.
[1:44:59 - 1:45:02] ▶
You're morphing reality to fit, you know, whatever it is you desire or you will into existence.
[1:45:02 - 1:45:10] ▶
Why does that have to stop with things that are non-physical, you know?
[1:45:10 - 1:45:13] ▶
And the ancient understanding was, is if you made yourself a pure enough vessel for divinity
[1:45:14 - 1:45:20] ▶
to come through, that's actually what makes the magical stuff happen.
[1:45:20 - 1:45:23] ▶
It's not your own mind.
[1:45:23 - 1:45:25] ▶
It's that you have created a sufficient receptacle to download higher consciousness into,
[1:45:25 - 1:45:33] ▶
and then you can do things that look miraculous.
[1:45:33 - 1:45:35] ▶
But it's not because of your own power.
[1:45:35 - 1:45:38] ▶
It's because you made yourself a sort of conduit to the higher realm, basically.
[1:45:38 - 1:45:42] ▶
Like possession in a good way, I guess, you know?
[1:45:44 - 1:45:46] ▶
Now it just sounds like you're appealing to Satanists.
[1:45:46 - 1:45:48] ▶
Hey man, I've probably been called worse things than that.
[1:45:49 - 1:45:52] ▶
Probably will be called worse things than that.
[1:45:52 - 1:45:53] ▶
No, possession is good.
[1:45:53 - 1:45:54] ▶
Would you, I know we've, we've talked about sky watching a bunch of times.
[1:45:57 - 1:46:01] ▶
Would you ever do a sky watch with an almost kind of like ritualistic component to it,
[1:46:01 - 1:46:07] ▶
where you're almost mixing esoteric ideas and this idea of, uh, you know?
[1:46:07 - 1:46:12] ▶
I have no, I have no problem doing it.
[1:46:12 - 1:46:15] ▶
I think what would inhibit it is my reluctance to want to let go and believe that it's real.
[1:46:15 - 1:46:22] ▶
And I think that might be an inhibitor.
[1:46:22 - 1:46:23] ▶
What if you were with someone that you had a lot of respect for that you like, you know, you're like,
[1:46:23 - 1:46:27] ▶
I'm not saying he would do it, but what if like Jacques Vallée is like, I really believe in this method.
[1:46:27 - 1:46:31] ▶
And we're like with Jacques Vallée.
[1:46:31 - 1:46:32] ▶
I would still, I would like, I mean the part of me, so we had this discussion before, but like the,
[1:46:33 - 1:46:37] ▶
I think that the, one of the key ingredients for this stuff is, is truly, and, and I was struggling to
[1:46:38 - 1:46:46] ▶
find a word for this, but it's knowing without knowing.
[1:46:46 - 1:46:49] ▶
And it's not belief.
[1:46:49 - 1:46:50] ▶
Like, okay, I'll give you a silly example of this.
[1:46:51 - 1:46:53] ▶
Um, I believe Australia to be a real place.
[1:46:54 - 1:46:57] ▶
Saying that out loud sounds absolutely insane to anyone who's been to Australia.
[1:46:57 - 1:47:02] ▶
It sounds insane to people who haven't been in Australia, but I can't in good conscience say,
[1:47:02 - 1:47:07] ▶
I know Australia to be real because I have no firsthand experience with Australia whatsoever,
[1:47:07 - 1:47:14] ▶
other than meeting Australians or seeing it on a map or watching a video or seeing a photo.
[1:47:14 - 1:47:18] ▶
I have lots of really compelling evidence.
[1:47:18 - 1:47:20] ▶
In fact, overwhelming, compelling evidence.
[1:47:20 - 1:47:23] ▶
You put money on it.
[1:47:23 - 1:47:23] ▶
That Australia is real, but I can't in good conscience say I know it to be real because I don't,
[1:47:24 - 1:47:30] ▶
I don't have that luxury of knowing.
[1:47:30 - 1:47:31] ▶
I would love to know that Australia is real and go there.
[1:47:31 - 1:47:33] ▶
Now I'm not saying Australia isn't real because that's where people get confused.
[1:47:33 - 1:47:37] ▶
Of course it's real.
[1:47:37 - 1:47:38] ▶
You didn't say believe.
[1:47:41 - 1:47:42] ▶
I saw you pull it back.
[1:47:42 - 1:47:43] ▶
Um, but I, and I can say, I believe it is, which is an opinion.
[1:47:43 - 1:47:48] ▶
Um, and it's faith based.
[1:47:49 - 1:47:50] ▶
But so there's a word missing between knowing and believing.
[1:47:50 - 1:47:55] ▶
And I don't know what that word is.
[1:47:56 - 1:47:57] ▶
And so I think one of the key suspect, the suspect implies again, failure.
[1:47:57 - 1:48:04] ▶
It implies it not being real.
[1:48:04 - 1:48:07] ▶
Um, so there is a word.
[1:48:07 - 1:48:09] ▶
So I just say knowing without knowing, like I know without knowing that Australia is real.
[1:48:09 - 1:48:14] ▶
Have you ever read a cosmic trigger or any Robert Anton Wilson stuff?
[1:48:14 - 1:48:18] ▶
Dude, I think you would love cosmic trigger.
[1:48:18 - 1:48:20] ▶
Uh, but anyway, he, he's got one of my favorite quotes on this point, which is like,
[1:48:20 - 1:48:24] ▶
I have no beliefs, but many suspicions.
[1:48:24 - 1:48:26] ▶
Or something like that.
[1:48:27 - 1:48:28] ▶
I, I, I, I hold in high conviction that Australia is real.
[1:48:29 - 1:48:32] ▶
I have a very high conviction level that Australia is real, but it's never a hundred percent.
[1:48:32 - 1:48:36] ▶
It can't be until I'm there.
[1:48:36 - 1:48:37] ▶
I'm not even a hundred percent on my existence.
[1:48:38 - 1:48:40] ▶
I mean, if you want to go that far, nothing's real.
[1:48:41 - 1:48:43] ▶
But, um, what I'm saying is that the, it's back to your question of what, you know, would
[1:48:43 - 1:48:48] ▶
I attend one of these, you know, uh, summonings or whatever it is when he's get togethers.
[1:48:48 - 1:48:53] ▶
Um, I fear that this, uh, knowing without knowing has to be a key ingredient, which is why it is so
[1:48:54 - 1:49:06] ▶
strong and prevalent among faith-based practices, because that faith is very strong in a lot of
[1:49:06 - 1:49:12] ▶
Um, and, and that might be part of the ritual necessary to make an egregore appear or to make,
[1:49:12 - 1:49:20] ▶
or to, to bring something trans-dimensionally in.
[1:49:20 - 1:49:24] ▶
And I think that having, um, not having the complete ability to spend that might inhibit the
[1:49:24 - 1:49:34] ▶
I, I feel like I've had, I don't want to paint the picture like I am some hugely accomplished,
[1:49:36 - 1:49:41] ▶
high weirdness, psychonaut master guy.
[1:49:41 - 1:49:44] ▶
But I have had a handful of experiences that I also hold in very high conviction.
[1:49:45 - 1:49:49] ▶
We're contact with something, you know, I've had an OBE, you know, I've had this entity encounter I
[1:49:50 - 1:49:54] ▶
pointed to, I've had some other, um, mind blowing experiences.
[1:49:54 - 1:49:57] ▶
Um, I would not say I had full blown belief that any of those things would happen.
[1:49:58 - 1:50:03] ▶
I think, I think going through the motions and pretending a lot of the time.
[1:50:03 - 1:50:07] ▶
But having a sort of back of your mind, I might be crazy, but I'm just going to stick
[1:50:07 - 1:50:13] ▶
with this process and just keep doing it.
[1:50:13 - 1:50:16] ▶
I think that that can be enough.
[1:50:16 - 1:50:17] ▶
I think that that can honestly be enough.
[1:50:17 - 1:50:19] ▶
Um, you might be right.
[1:50:19 - 1:50:21] ▶
I also feel that like any time that I had an out of body experience, I, even when I wasn't seeking it,
[1:50:22 - 1:50:30] ▶
um, I was in a state that was very suggestible.
[1:50:31 - 1:50:34] ▶
And so when you're on in this sort of hypnagogic or hypnopompic state, you are heavily suggestible.
[1:50:36 - 1:50:44] ▶
And so even the impregnation of the idea into your mind that an out of body is possible.
[1:50:44 - 1:50:49] ▶
Mm-hmm on a subconscious level might be enough for that to work.
[1:50:49 - 1:50:53] ▶
So maybe the answer to the question is yes.
[1:50:53 - 1:50:55] ▶
And maybe through meditation, we can get there.
[1:50:56 - 1:50:58] ▶
Maybe we can get to that point of, you know, being open to it happening, but I'd be, I'd be down for sure.
[1:50:59 - 1:51:05] ▶
I'm down to try anything.
[1:51:05 - 1:51:07] ▶
I don't believe, I don't believe, let me rephrase that.
[1:51:07 - 1:51:11] ▶
I, I don't think that the whole hitchhiker thing has any power unless you give it power.
[1:51:11 - 1:51:22] ▶
I really think that that again is another self, uh.
[1:51:22 - 1:51:28] ▶
Fulfilling prophecy.
[1:51:28 - 1:51:29] ▶
It's, it's, it's something you, you, uh, convince yourself of.
[1:51:29 - 1:51:33] ▶
And therefore make it so.
[1:51:33 - 1:51:34] ▶
Like, uh, people tell me, no, but there was an ancient Indian burial ground at Skinwalker.
[1:51:35 - 1:51:41] ▶
You dig deep enough anywhere, you'll find a dead body.
[1:51:41 - 1:51:45] ▶
That's how long people have been around, right?
[1:51:45 - 1:51:46] ▶
There's, there's bodies everywhere.
[1:51:46 - 1:51:48] ▶
There's cemeteries everywhere.
[1:51:48 - 1:51:49] ▶
I, I suspect that there's definitely something to what you're saying.
[1:51:50 - 1:51:54] ▶
Like, obviously that there are self-fulfilling prophecies and that you can like spin your mind up.
[1:51:54 - 1:51:58] ▶
And I think that's all it is.
[1:51:58 - 1:51:59] ▶
Like, I wouldn't go that far.
[1:51:59 - 1:52:01] ▶
Well, because I, I don't, I, I think that that creates the reality too.
[1:52:01 - 1:52:04] ▶
So like you created those spirits now because you all believe so strongly that they exist.
[1:52:05 - 1:52:11] ▶
In fact, you know, without knowing that they exist and you have this super high conviction
[1:52:11 - 1:52:16] ▶
because of all the stories attached to it.
[1:52:16 - 1:52:18] ▶
And now you're highly suggestible and you create this and now guess what?
[1:52:18 - 1:52:21] ▶
People are starting to see shit.
[1:52:21 - 1:52:22] ▶
Uh, and so I think if you give it power, it has power.
[1:52:23 - 1:52:26] ▶
And I think if you don't give it power, it doesn't.
[1:52:26 - 1:52:28] ▶
Well, we know for sure suggestibility is obviously a thing.
[1:52:28 - 1:52:31] ▶
Like if you just create a psychic atmosphere where people expect something, their minds
[1:52:31 - 1:52:38] ▶
will put it there, even if it's not there, right?
[1:52:38 - 1:52:41] ▶
Like, oh, I just heard something.
[1:52:41 - 1:52:41] ▶
If you, if you take, if you go to some place that's supposed to be haunted and you all work
[1:52:43 - 1:52:47] ▶
yourselves up into a tizzy, I do think that that for sure.
[1:52:47 - 1:52:50] ▶
But I think you can do that and make something physical appear too.
[1:52:50 - 1:52:52] ▶
And you would even go to the further level of having a, saying there's like almost like a sigh
[1:52:53 - 1:52:57] ▶
That you're creating, um, unknowingly or something.
[1:52:58 - 1:53:01] ▶
Like a thought form or something.
[1:53:01 - 1:53:02] ▶
But I don't think it has to do with the geography of the place.
[1:53:03 - 1:53:07] ▶
I don't think it has to do with the history of the place.
[1:53:07 - 1:53:09] ▶
I think it has to do completely with the energy that you're putting into the place based on
[1:53:09 - 1:53:12] ▶
the lore that was given to you.
[1:53:12 - 1:53:13] ▶
This is a point that you got, you and I got stuck on a little bit in the last one
[1:53:13 - 1:53:16] ▶
that we did together on mine, which is that, um.
[1:53:16 - 1:53:19] ▶
You believe in the ritual.
[1:53:19 - 1:53:20] ▶
Well, not, not only do I believe in the ritual, I think that there is a whole system of forces
[1:53:21 - 1:53:26] ▶
that we have been led to believe aren't real, are superstitious, are nonsense that.
[1:53:26 - 1:53:31] ▶
Maybe our systems and approximations of those things aren't perfect, but I gotta believe
[1:53:32 - 1:53:38] ▶
the ancients who did these unbelievable things, man, things that we still don't know how they
[1:53:38 - 1:53:44] ▶
did or even what they were doing.
[1:53:44 - 1:53:46] ▶
Like literally to this day, there's people putting out there right now, someone's hitting
[1:53:46 - 1:53:49] ▶
publish on a podcast about the pyramids and thinking it's a power plant or thinking it's
[1:53:49 - 1:53:54] ▶
a resurrection machine or thinking it's, you know, X, Y, or Z.
[1:53:54 - 1:53:57] ▶
Um, we still don't know what they were doing, but we know they were obsessed with the night sky.
[1:53:57 - 1:54:02] ▶
They know we know they were obsessed with, uh, uh, astrology.
[1:54:02 - 1:54:05] ▶
We know they were obsessed with, uh, the unseen realm of the dead, of the gods, of the daimones,
[1:54:05 - 1:54:09] ▶
of the angels, all this stuff.
[1:54:09 - 1:54:11] ▶
And we're like, yeah, science proves that's not real.
[1:54:11 - 1:54:14] ▶
And, and I think inevitably you've got to either end up in this place of when, when you start
[1:54:14 - 1:54:20] ▶
going down these rabbit holes, I think you're going to find yourself in a place where you
[1:54:20 - 1:54:23] ▶
at a minimum have to kind of do what you're doing and say, sigh is real in some kind of a way.
[1:54:23 - 1:54:30] ▶
The effects of the mind are real, or they, there's an ancient science that we are now illiterate to.
[1:54:30 - 1:54:37] ▶
And it's some kind of sacred science that has both a spiritual component and a practical,
[1:54:37 - 1:54:42] ▶
technical component.
[1:54:43 - 1:54:44] ▶
And that practical technical component is knowing when, when are these energies active?
[1:54:44 - 1:54:48] ▶
When, when, when can we harness this?
[1:54:48 - 1:54:51] ▶
When does a, and this is Kiel would talk about this too,
[1:54:51 - 1:54:53] ▶
that you can see in the UFO manifestation evidence that there are these weird cycles.
[1:54:53 - 1:54:59] ▶
There are window areas where these things happen over and over and over again.
[1:54:59 - 1:55:02] ▶
And things appear more often at certain, uh, parts of the planetary cycle or certain days
[1:55:02 - 1:55:08] ▶
of the week or certain whatever. And these are all like related ideas in my opinion.
[1:55:08 - 1:55:12] ▶
It just sounds like astrology to me.
[1:55:12 - 1:55:14] ▶
And to me that, you know, all of that just sounds like nonsense.
[1:55:16 - 1:55:21] ▶
Um, and not, not, not that it sounds like nonsense. It has meaning if you ascribe meaning to it.
[1:55:21 - 1:55:26] ▶
And I think that's the key ingredient. I think that's it. I mean, all of this can be explained with that.
[1:55:26 - 1:55:31] ▶
If you say, no, it has to happen on the second Tuesday of every month. Well, that's only because
[1:55:31 - 1:55:36] ▶
you said it has to happen on a second Tuesday of every month. Now you believe that now you've given
[1:55:36 - 1:55:40] ▶
that energy to that thing. And so that energy is crucial for it to work. It can't work without it.
[1:55:40 - 1:55:46] ▶
And so we have to come up with rituals in order to cement this process. Otherwise it won't just work
[1:55:46 - 1:55:55] ▶
You have to give it a ritual for it to work, but that ritual doesn't have to be.
[1:55:56 - 1:56:00] ▶
I don't think specific. I think you can make one up and, and if, if it's around for long enough and
[1:56:01 - 1:56:06] ▶
enough credible people are talking about it and giving it life and energy, then it becomes the
[1:56:06 - 1:56:10] ▶
ritual. I, every ritual had to start somewhere. And so what came first, the chicken or the egg?
[1:56:10 - 1:56:16] ▶
Um, did he try this ritual every day of the week until it was a full moon and then it worked? Or did he say,
[1:56:16 - 1:56:21] ▶
it'll work on the full moon? Yep. Yep. Yeah. I mean, and then the argument would be that
[1:56:21 - 1:56:26] ▶
it started when someone was in touch with something higher and the something higher
[1:56:27 - 1:56:31] ▶
was like, you've got to do this. This is how you do it. And then they continued. They held that as a
[1:56:31 - 1:56:35] ▶
very close initiatory secret. And that's how suggestion works.
[1:56:35 - 1:56:40] ▶
Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is you will, will always be in this self nullifying logical loop in any
[1:56:40 - 1:56:49] ▶
kind of conversation like this, because it's always going to happen through the prism of the
[1:56:49 - 1:56:54] ▶
individual mind. Of course.
[1:56:54 - 1:56:55] ▶
So you can never divorce the individual mind from what it is. So you could ascribe this kind of like
[1:56:55 - 1:57:00] ▶
solipsistic, because it's happening through my mind, my mind is causing it. And, but then it's always
[1:57:00 - 1:57:06] ▶
a debate as to, it's, it's like saying. I want to say the mind is causing it. I'm saying that
[1:57:06 - 1:57:09] ▶
your mind, your, no, your, your mind is interacting with this field.
[1:57:10 - 1:57:14] ▶
In a, in probably a very fundamental way that can eventually be explained by like physics.
[1:57:15 - 1:57:21] ▶
I think that that is, I think everything that we're talking about will eventually be explained by
[1:57:22 - 1:57:26] ▶
quantum physics or some type of trippy physics we haven't discovered yet. And, you know, then you
[1:57:26 - 1:57:31] ▶
can't simply lump it all into esoteric or paranormal anymore. You have to acknowledge that it is science.
[1:57:31 - 1:57:36] ▶
And I think that the fundamental part of that science is your brain's capacity to interact with
[1:57:37 - 1:57:43] ▶
this field. And I think that there are certain ways that we can do that now. That we'll probably
[1:57:43 - 1:57:49] ▶
be better at in the future and that they were pretty good at in the past. But I do think that
[1:57:49 - 1:57:54] ▶
that's what's happening, we have an interaction with our consciousness.
[1:57:54 - 1:57:56] ▶
Mm-hmm . . . . . . . And I think if you set certain regulations
[1:57:56 - 1:58:00] ▶
on the practices behind that interaction, you can gather results from it. Now, I think once
[1:58:00 - 1:58:08] ▶
you gather results from it, you automatically think it's due to the ritual. But I think
[1:58:08 - 1:58:12] ▶
think my thinking is that it's the power you gave to the ritual that is the secret component.
[1:58:12 - 1:58:19] ▶
And so if you have the daimon or somebody else coming into your head and saying, you need to do
[1:58:20 - 1:58:24] ▶
this on a full moon, that might just be their way of being like, they need suggestion in order for
[1:58:24 - 1:58:31] ▶
this to work. And so we're going to give them something. We're going to throw them a bone
[1:58:31 - 1:58:35] ▶
that'll make sense to them. And then we believe it so, and then these things happen.
[1:58:35 - 1:58:39] ▶
And anyways, there's no way of disproving this because it's, like you said, it's how the mind
[1:58:39 - 1:58:45] ▶
works. But I do think there is some merit to that, especially when it comes to my own personal
[1:58:45 - 1:58:49] ▶
experience with magic with the sea in creating those specific ingredients and then having these
[1:58:49 - 1:58:58] ▶
miracles happen during performance. They're very similar and it has nothing to do with what I was
[1:58:58 - 1:59:03] ▶
wearing and it has nothing to do with the time of day or which direction I was facing or what I ate
[1:59:03 - 1:59:09] ▶
for lunch. It had everything to do with the energy that was being created with the individuals who
[1:59:09 - 1:59:15] ▶
were involved. The flow state, the sort of faith prestige exchange, like all of this.
[1:59:15 - 1:59:22] ▶
And so I do, because otherwise you have all of these cultures and all of these religions
[1:59:23 - 1:59:31] ▶
practicing different things. They're not the same.
[1:59:31 - 1:59:33] ▶
To some degree, sure. But baptism, right? Like there's all these rituals that all these
[1:59:35 - 1:59:41] ▶
different cultures have. They're very different. Like some of them do body mutilation. Some of them
[1:59:41 - 1:59:48] ▶
paint themselves, tattoo themselves, shave their head. Like there's all these different rituals and
[1:59:48 - 1:59:52] ▶
there's thousands and hundreds of thousands of different practices across all these cultures
[1:59:52 - 1:59:57] ▶
that all claim that what they're doing produces the same effect.
[1:59:57 - 2:00:01] ▶
Roughly speaking, they are getting in touch with something or they are getting information,
[2:00:04 - 2:00:09] ▶
but the way they're going about it is different. And so that leads me to believe that it doesn't
[2:00:09 - 2:00:13] ▶
have anything to do with the specific technical steps that they're doing, but more so the intention
[2:00:13 - 2:00:19] ▶
behind those technical things.
[2:00:19 - 2:00:20] ▶
Yeah. No, I think, I mean, I definitely think that that comes into play, but I don't think
[2:00:20 - 2:00:25] ▶
I can be wrestled into submission on the idea that I'm pretty convinced that we live in a
[2:00:25 - 2:00:32] ▶
complicated array of cosmic forces of some kind. And I think I totally agree with what you're
[2:00:32 - 2:00:39] ▶
saying where I suspect that there's probably this larger field of consciousness, but I think
[2:00:39 - 2:00:44] ▶
that that field of consciousness has like archetypal qualities or segments to it. And I think it
[2:00:44 - 2:00:51] ▶
would make, it just makes logical sense to me that those things would ebb and flow because we see
[2:00:51 - 2:00:57] ▶
things change cyclically on the physical level. Right. And I think what we see happening on the
[2:00:57 - 2:01:02] ▶
physical level is probably emblematic of other higher processes that we're ignorant to, but they're
[2:01:02 - 2:01:07] ▶
also indicative of certain energies and certain things being, you know, like winter is just like
[2:01:07 - 2:01:12] ▶
archetypally very different than summer. And you could say, ah, it's just because of the angle of
[2:01:12 - 2:01:17] ▶
the planet. And like, technically all of those things are true, but I don't think that that robs
[2:01:17 - 2:01:22] ▶
the meaning of it because, you know, it's like saying you, um, you're only having this experience
[2:01:22 - 2:01:28] ▶
of this conversation because this neuron's doing that. And you get into this like reductive physicalist
[2:01:28 - 2:01:34] ▶
sort of, uh, chain of dominoes to try to explain reality. And I don't think you and I, either one of us
[2:01:34 - 2:01:41] ▶
like that way of trying to explain reality, but you also can't say that that's not true because
[2:01:41 - 2:01:46] ▶
it is true. My brain is doing stuff like, you know, there are all of these physical components,
[2:01:46 - 2:01:50] ▶
but I just think it's all part of this bigger, more complex, um, again, constellation of things.
[2:01:50 - 2:01:58] ▶
But, but I'm not, what I'm saying isn't reductive at all. I'm just saying,
[2:01:58 - 2:02:01] ▶
I don't need a magic wand. You do. That's the whole difference here. That's the only difference here.
[2:02:01 - 2:02:06] ▶
I think it just depends on what we're like, what we're trying to do, because I think like,
[2:02:06 - 2:02:10] ▶
you know, if you look at, um, something like, you know, ancient mystery temples or something like
[2:02:10 - 2:02:15] ▶
that, where you've got to follow all these protocols and you've got to, um, you know,
[2:02:15 - 2:02:19] ▶
like the temple of a lucis, like you have to follow these protocols. You have to do it. It only happens
[2:02:19 - 2:02:23] ▶
this one time of year. And the idea was that's when the goddess will show up and it's not metaphorical
[2:02:23 - 2:02:29] ▶
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's one of those things where it's like, you read through
[2:02:29 - 2:02:33] ▶
antiquity and you're like, wow, I don't know what was going on here, but everybody was writing about
[2:02:33 - 2:02:37] ▶
this and they all held it in the highest possible regard, whether it's like Plato or Herodotus or,
[2:02:37 - 2:02:42] ▶
uh, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I don't know. I just, I, I, I, I hear that and I go,
[2:02:42 - 2:02:48] ▶
well, yeah, that's the only way she could have arrived is if we all believed it so.
[2:02:48 - 2:02:52] ▶
And so to, to create that belief, you have to create the ritual or else people will just be
[2:02:54 - 2:02:58] ▶
scatterbrained and believe whatever. Yeah.
[2:02:58 - 2:02:59] ▶
And then we don't have a singular collapsing wave function here. We, we, we have a random
[2:02:59 - 2:03:04] ▶
wave function because too many minds are involved. So instead let's all get behind one idea of on a
[2:03:04 - 2:03:10] ▶
Tuesday, you know, we got to, that's when she appears. Oh my God, it's when she appears. Now
[2:03:10 - 2:03:14] ▶
we're all on the same thought train. And now this egregore, now this event can happen, like, because
[2:03:14 - 2:03:20] ▶
we've put collective energy behind it rather than some, you know, sort of sporadic chaos thing. So I think
[2:03:20 - 2:03:26] ▶
the ritual is important, but I don't think the specific ritual matters. I think as long as
[2:03:26 - 2:03:31] ▶
we're all doing a ritual, um, as long as we're all tapped in to that, because otherwise it would
[2:03:31 - 2:03:37] ▶
make no sense why we have thousands of rituals. You're off my invite list, Chris, for the esoteric
[2:03:37 - 2:03:43] ▶
UFO summoning. Well, no, because what I'm saying is still esoteric. Yeah. And I think it still matters.
[2:03:43 - 2:03:47] ▶
And I think it's just, um, I'm just trying to find the commonality and the fundamental trigger
[2:03:47 - 2:03:54] ▶
that allows this to happen. And I can only do that from the things that I've, you know,
[2:03:54 - 2:03:59] ▶
dealt with and which in my case is dealing with probabilities on a daily basis through magic
[2:03:59 - 2:04:05] ▶
performance. Yeah. And when you're dealing with probabilities, being able to skew them
[2:04:05 - 2:04:09] ▶
using your mind is a very interesting prospect. And then when you, uh, see the results of that,
[2:04:09 - 2:04:16] ▶
you have to be convinced that, okay, there is some formulaic thing happening here, but that formula
[2:04:16 - 2:04:22] ▶
isn't, you know, dependent on me having a deck of cards. Yeah. It, it has more to do with the
[2:04:22 - 2:04:27] ▶
energy I put behind saying it has to do with the deck of cards. And, and so that's the, that's the
[2:04:27 - 2:04:33] ▶
only thing we're like, it's, we're talking about the same thing, but like I said, I think I'm just
[2:04:33 - 2:04:37] ▶
removing the magic wand and saying it's still possible. I think we are. I think we're talking
[2:04:37 - 2:04:42] ▶
about the same thing. I don't know because some, some, all this stuff is so hypothetical and it's so
[2:04:42 - 2:04:46] ▶
outside of my everyday experience. And I don't even like, I think the only reason I, I truly believe
[2:04:46 - 2:04:53] ▶
what I'm saying and what I'm arguing for, but I think it's just because I'm very fond of a lot of
[2:04:53 - 2:04:58] ▶
these traditions and these thinkers. Right. And I feel like pretty confident that they knew a lot
[2:04:58 - 2:05:02] ▶
of shit that I don't know and had a lot of experiences that I haven't had. So I'm just like,
[2:05:02 - 2:05:06] ▶
I don't want to dismiss what they're telling me because I think that they come from a whole
[2:05:06 - 2:05:12] ▶
lineage of carefully preserved stuff that goes probably back into like deep into antiquity.
[2:05:12 - 2:05:18] ▶
And yeah, I just have, I guess a lot of respect for, for those sorts of.
[2:05:19 - 2:05:23] ▶
That's where I, yeah, I guess that's where I differ because I, I didn't study that, you know, and, and
[2:05:23 - 2:05:27] ▶
I, I just see the results of it. Yeah. Um, but then you have like the Gnostic sort of like,
[2:05:27 - 2:05:32] ▶
you ever see these videos where guys like, oh, you got to remember these names.
[2:05:32 - 2:05:34] ▶
Oh yeah. That's a whole interesting, that's a whole interesting, um, train of thought on this whole
[2:05:35 - 2:05:41] ▶
conversation that we were having earlier. Yeah. When you die, you gotta like give the names and
[2:05:41 - 2:05:45] ▶
once they're named, they let you through to the next thing. And then, and that's how you sort of
[2:05:45 - 2:05:49] ▶
ascend. And again, I find myself thinking that's complete rubbish because if that was the case,
[2:05:49 - 2:05:55] ▶
what happens to the person who's mute? What happens to the person who can't pronounce anything
[2:05:55 - 2:05:59] ▶
correctly? What, you know, it, it, it makes it a little silly for me. Yeah. But the energy behind it,
[2:05:59 - 2:06:06] ▶
you know, might be, might be very, very important. I don't know.
[2:06:06 - 2:06:09] ▶
Yeah. I think my guess is that there's probably like a dogmified version of something that might
[2:06:09 - 2:06:15] ▶
actually be true. Right. And because, so if you go, um, back into the like Corpus Hermeticum stuff,
[2:06:15 - 2:06:22] ▶
where Hermes, he's like this, you know, sage type figure, he's wandering in the desert. Again,
[2:06:22 - 2:06:28] ▶
a serpent kind of experience. He has a vision of like this cosmic logos dragon, this cosmic logos dragon
[2:06:28 - 2:06:35] ▶
gives him the download of here's what humans are. Here's what the world is. Here's how everything was
[2:06:35 - 2:06:39] ▶
created. Here's the whole lineage of how humans got to where they are. Here's how you re-ascend back to the one.
[2:06:39 - 2:06:45] ▶
And basically what you're talking about is a version of figuring out how to traverse those planes to get
[2:06:46 - 2:06:52] ▶
back to freedom outside of the confines of the matrix, basically.
[2:06:52 - 2:06:58] ▶
Getting out of the samsara's wheel or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And the way that you do that,
[2:06:58 - 2:07:02] ▶
I think there are, there are, this is where we get into the, to the Lavenda cosmic ascent stuff too,
[2:07:02 - 2:07:07] ▶
because there's versions of this where there's guardians of different planes, basically.
[2:07:08 - 2:07:12] ▶
And you either have to do something or give a kind of password, or you have to be initiated
[2:07:12 - 2:07:17] ▶
into something to get through each threshold guardian. And I think, again, this is appealing to
[2:07:17 - 2:07:23] ▶
something I think is true on some level, because we do this in all of our myths, right? There's a
[2:07:23 - 2:07:28] ▶
guardian at the gate and you have to either befriend or trick or defeat the guardian to initiate and go
[2:07:28 - 2:07:33] ▶
on. So I think it's one of those things where it's deeply true, but the idea that I literally have to go
[2:07:33 - 2:07:39] ▶
you know, like when I get to some gate is probably, probably incorrect. Yeah. It just, it feels like so
[2:07:39 - 2:07:46] ▶
ridiculous, but I also think it could be true on some more foundational archetypal level.
[2:07:46 - 2:07:51] ▶
Like you, you, you probably have to prove you've learned a lesson or something.
[2:07:51 - 2:07:55] ▶
Yeah. And in the hermetic ascent ritual, it's a relinquishment. So, you know, like each planet
[2:07:55 - 2:08:00] ▶
is emblematic of a certain, uh, quality or vice, right? So the, the, the vice version of mercury
[2:08:00 - 2:08:08] ▶
would be scheming and cleverness and all of these things where you're trying to use your intellect
[2:08:08 - 2:08:14] ▶
to trick someone. And the, and what you do is you try to remove that from yourself and then ascend
[2:08:14 - 2:08:20] ▶
beyond it. And you do, and you do that at each planetary sphere so that you can basically defrock
[2:08:20 - 2:08:26] ▶
yourself of all of these human kinds of vices. And then you can, then you actually are able to be
[2:08:26 - 2:08:31] ▶
reabsorbed back into the oneness of God or whatever. And I think it's probably some mutation of that
[2:08:31 - 2:08:38] ▶
as, as you're trying to, again, get rid of these, um, what they call, uh, what's that word?
[2:08:38 - 2:08:45] ▶
There's a accretions. You, you take on these accretions by becoming human. And this goes back
[2:08:46 - 2:08:51] ▶
to that platonic myth of Ur, where you're passing through these thresholds. And as you, you get
[2:08:51 - 2:08:55] ▶
weighed down by each one, it's like- The archons.
[2:08:55 - 2:08:57] ▶
Yeah, it is. And that's what it is. And, um, Scientology.
[2:08:57 - 2:09:01] ▶
In, in the, uh, oh, that's a different thing, but the archons are the Gnostic thing.
[2:09:01 - 2:09:05] ▶
Oh yeah, the Gnostic thing. Yeah. What are the, what are the, uh, the Scientology ones?
[2:09:05 - 2:09:08] ▶
Uh, it's something, it ends with an S.
[2:09:08 - 2:09:10] ▶
Not the Aeons. No, that's, that's also Gnostic.
[2:09:10 - 2:09:13] ▶
I, I think it's not Euclideans, but it's like something it ends, right?
[2:09:13 - 2:09:17] ▶
It's bugging me now.
[2:09:17 - 2:09:18] ▶
I think it is. Yeah. I don't know. Um,
[2:09:18 - 2:09:21] ▶
Same idea. Yeah. And, and I, and again, I think that's an idea that there's something to,
[2:09:22 - 2:09:26] ▶
I, I, I actually do kind of resonate with the idea that we might've wound up here as humans by accident
[2:09:26 - 2:09:34] ▶
in a sort of like almost, uh, in a, again, a more contemporary way in a kind of Robert Monroe kind
[2:09:34 - 2:09:39] ▶
of way where we sort of got do, we made the decision in some way, but kind of didn't realize
[2:09:39 - 2:09:45] ▶
what we were doing by committing to life on earth. Um, a version of it kind of like that. Uh, one of the
[2:09:45 - 2:09:51] ▶
the Neoplatonist Plotinus talks about it as, um, what he calls soul fall. So you were talking,
[2:09:51 - 2:09:57] ▶
I want to bring this up actually, when you were talking about this scenario of controlling the
[2:09:57 - 2:10:01] ▶
guy in the simulation and giving him inspiration by being like, no, here's a perfect statue. Now make
[2:10:01 - 2:10:07] ▶
a better statue. Um, it's a similar idea because what he's saying is you have this undescended higher
[2:10:07 - 2:10:14] ▶
self that's actually in the higher realm already. And that would probably presumably be
[2:10:14 - 2:10:19] ▶
why Psy things and other things are possible because you actually are already in that realm.
[2:10:21 - 2:10:25] ▶
You've lost your connection to it. Well, the daimon would also be he, the daimon is like your
[2:10:26 - 2:10:30] ▶
connection to the connection. So, um, it's like the local connection to the higher connection.
[2:10:30 - 2:10:36] ▶
So you're part of your consciousness is instantiated here, but part of it is out there.
[2:10:36 - 2:10:40] ▶
Yes. Exactly. That's exactly it. And Plotinus would do these cosmic ascent
[2:10:40 - 2:10:44] ▶
meditations basically, where he would figure out how to re-merge with the higher self. And then he'd
[2:10:44 - 2:10:49] ▶
come back to his body and he writes about this in the Enneids. And he basically says, I'm confused
[2:10:49 - 2:10:54] ▶
because I've, I've figured out the path back there and I know that that's who I truly am.
[2:10:54 - 2:10:59] ▶
But for now, like part of me is stuck here basically. Um, and I think it could be, it could
[2:10:59 - 2:11:04] ▶
be something like that where we've sort of meandered into this realm or part where we've become
[2:11:04 - 2:11:09] ▶
enamored by something and that somethingness spiraled us back down into a physical form that
[2:11:09 - 2:11:16] ▶
needs to release that again. And then we can go back to the higher self or whatever.
[2:11:16 - 2:11:21] ▶
Can't wait to find out.
[2:11:21 - 2:11:23] ▶
Yeah. I can, but I can't. I'm having fun with this podcast right now.
[2:11:23 - 2:11:27] ▶
Yeah. No, we're definitely going to find out eventually. And that's the other thing too,
[2:11:27 - 2:11:30] ▶
is like, uh, I talk about that with, you know, friends and it's, it's something, it sounds a
[2:11:30 - 2:11:37] ▶
little worrisome when you say it out loud, but I'm like, sometimes I can't wait to die.
[2:11:37 - 2:11:40] ▶
Like not, I can wait. I like my life. I'm not, I'm not looking to go anywhere, but I'm really
[2:11:41 - 2:11:46] ▶
excited about, about that final thing. And I, you know, a lot of people fear death and, uh, I fear
[2:11:46 - 2:11:52] ▶
You know, I fear pain of death, like whatever is going to cause my death is going to be,
[2:11:53 - 2:11:57] ▶
you know, suffering or something that I fear, but the death part, I'm really excited about.
[2:11:57 - 2:12:02] ▶
Like it's the, it's the pinnacle of, of, you know, all the curiosity that,
[2:12:02 - 2:12:10] ▶
that we have. It's, it's, it's the, it's the end point. It's why we're talking, you know, is, is,
[2:12:10 - 2:12:16] ▶
is the, to answer that question. This is all we're talking about is when you're talking about
[2:12:16 - 2:12:23] ▶
UFOs, what are you talking about? You're talking about life beyond, you're talking about other
[2:12:23 - 2:12:26] ▶
things. Do they have the answer, you know? And, and we're just looking for that. And
[2:12:26 - 2:12:30] ▶
the funny thing is it's, it's such an irony that we all get the answer.
[2:12:30 - 2:12:35] ▶
But that we will in one way or another.
[2:12:36 - 2:12:39] ▶
And the irony is that we just can't let each other know about it. And if we do, we're not going to
[2:12:40 - 2:12:45] ▶
believe it. Like there's this crazy, like loop of irony here that, that we're, you know, we
[2:12:45 - 2:12:50] ▶
Somebody with the billions of people that have spoken, you got to think that one person has it.
[2:12:50 - 2:12:57] ▶
Or at least the closest thing to it. One person has said it.
[2:12:57 - 2:13:02] ▶
Yeah. And then the problem is, is I always feel like a lot of these people have become
[2:13:03 - 2:13:06] ▶
corrupted by their persona or whatever they're trying to push or whatever they're trying to sell.
[2:13:06 - 2:13:11] ▶
It's really hard in a capitalistic.
[2:13:11 - 2:13:13] ▶
To have a clean intention on any of this stuff.
[2:13:15 - 2:13:17] ▶
Um, but do you, do you think going out of body helped you with that conviction that you're sort
[2:13:18 - 2:13:25] ▶
of excited about whatever comes next?
[2:13:25 - 2:13:26] ▶
Or have you always had that?
[2:13:27 - 2:13:28] ▶
I don't know that it, I, I think it did, uh, in the immediate.
[2:13:28 - 2:13:33] ▶
And, and I think maybe some time after, I think that wears off a little bit.
[2:13:34 - 2:13:38] ▶
It's like kind of like going to the Monroe Institute or it's kind of like meditating itself.
[2:13:38 - 2:13:42] ▶
If you, if you skip a few days, you start feeling the stress and the weight of life come back to you.
[2:13:42 - 2:13:47] ▶
And you say, why am I like this?
[2:13:47 - 2:13:49] ▶
And as soon as you meditate, you're kind of washed away from that.
[2:13:49 - 2:13:51] ▶
And you go, oh, that's.
[2:13:51 - 2:13:52] ▶
And so I think that, yeah, maybe immediately I did have, um, a sort of clearer picture, but I don't know that what I experienced was that, you know?
[2:13:52 - 2:14:08] ▶
I don't know that what I experienced was anything like the afterlife or if there is.
[2:14:08 - 2:14:14] ▶
And I don't know what I experienced was an out of body experience.
[2:14:15 - 2:14:19] ▶
Although objectively different from a lucid dream.
[2:14:19 - 2:14:23] ▶
This, I will, I'll fight anybody on, I'll die on that.
[2:14:23 - 2:14:26] ▶
I've had plenty of lucid dreams.
[2:14:27 - 2:14:28] ▶
I had one last night.
[2:14:28 - 2:14:29] ▶
And I had vivid dreams before that.
[2:14:30 - 2:14:31] ▶
Like I dream regularly, objectively different.
[2:14:31 - 2:14:35] ▶
Every single time instantly recognizable as not a dream.
[2:14:35 - 2:14:39] ▶
Not that type of dream.
[2:14:39 - 2:14:41] ▶
So at the very, at the very least, it is a new type of dream.
[2:14:41 - 2:14:47] ▶
At the very least, at the very most, it is my soul leaving my body.
[2:14:48 - 2:14:52] ▶
And, and that obviously is, is a game changer, but I'm not convinced of it, but I would love to be.
[2:14:53 - 2:14:58] ▶
I would love to have a locale two type experience that Monroe talks about in Journeys Out of the Body.
[2:14:59 - 2:15:03] ▶
Because look, so for people that haven't read Journeys Out of the Body, um, he talks about,
[2:15:04 - 2:15:09] ▶
there's a realm that he calls locale two, which I think in more, uh, readily accessible speak would
[2:15:09 - 2:15:16] ▶
be like the astral realm. And what this realm is like is a realm where you have a non-physical form
[2:15:16 - 2:15:24] ▶
that is still somewhat body like, and it has sort of like energetic sensations.
[2:15:24 - 2:15:29] ▶
That's what I was in.
[2:15:29 - 2:15:30] ▶
I think I was maybe, but I, I wasn't, I wasn't perceiving the kinds of things he says that he's
[2:15:32 - 2:15:38] ▶
able to perceive in that you're in this realm of thought and then wherever your thought goes,
[2:15:38 - 2:15:45] ▶
you go. And if you have these, again, like these accretions, these things weighing you down,
[2:15:45 - 2:15:50] ▶
where you're like, oh, I really got to poop or I'm horny or I'm hungry. Like those impulses will drag
[2:15:50 - 2:15:56] ▶
you back into your body basically. But if you, or if you're, if you have no physical body, they'll
[2:15:56 - 2:16:01] ▶
get you stuck in these like lower astral realms of just these spirits that are just like in
[2:16:01 - 2:16:07] ▶
food obsessed or hump obsessed mode, where they're just like stuck in these recursive
[2:16:08 - 2:16:12] ▶
desire patterns or whatever. So you need to be able to navigate your way out of that with enough
[2:16:13 - 2:16:17] ▶
clarity of mind to be able to navigate this soul vehicle. And that's what the ancients called it,
[2:16:17 - 2:16:23] ▶
is a soul vehicle. And the, that's the, um, the translation you'll see in a lot of the,
[2:16:23 - 2:16:28] ▶
the Greco Roman stuff is you have this, uh, pneumatic vehicle. It's like the word panuma,
[2:16:28 - 2:16:34] ▶
pneuma, which is like your vital essence. There's a pneumatic vehicle for the soul.
[2:16:34 - 2:16:39] ▶
And I think that's what's coming out when you're having an OBE is essentially like the vehicle
[2:16:39 - 2:16:44] ▶
of your psyche, cause psyche in Greek is soul is coming free of the physical body.
[2:16:44 - 2:16:50] ▶
And it's so jarring and so strange. Um, and as anybody who's heard me tell this story before
[2:16:50 - 2:16:57] ▶
knows, I didn't get control of the thing, but I definitely had an experience of separating from my
[2:16:57 - 2:17:01] ▶
body and had the full blown Robert Monroe. This is insane. This is terrifying. I don't know how to
[2:17:01 - 2:17:06] ▶
control this. Oh my God. And then basically just asking for help until I re-emerge with my body and
[2:17:06 - 2:17:11] ▶
then being in disbelief for the next 24 hours. Like, oh my God, real man. That's not a metaphor.
[2:17:11 - 2:17:17] ▶
That's not a dream. That's not a, that's real, but that's as far as I got. But this idea of navigating,
[2:17:17 - 2:17:23] ▶
you know, locale to what he calls it, where there's all the, I mean, so much stuff he describes.
[2:17:24 - 2:17:28] ▶
The strangeness. Remember, remember the, um, the story of-
[2:17:29 - 2:17:32] ▶
The naked little boys on his back or whatever. Whoa.
[2:17:32 - 2:17:34] ▶
Do you remember that?
[2:17:35 - 2:17:36] ▶
That's not where I was going.
[2:17:36 - 2:17:37] ▶
Do you remember that?
[2:17:37 - 2:17:37] ▶
Um, I actually don't.
[2:17:37 - 2:17:38] ▶
That was wild. It's in like one of the later chapters in Journeys Out of the Body where he's like,
[2:17:38 - 2:17:43] ▶
these little boys are just appeared and like, he knew they weren't human, but they were naked and
[2:17:44 - 2:17:49] ▶
they were like riding his back. And I'm like, I don't know if I should skip this chapter.
[2:17:49 - 2:17:52] ▶
Yeah. Um, remember the one there, there's like a thing about-
[2:17:52 - 2:17:57] ▶
The leeches that he was fighting off leeches at one point too.
[2:17:57 - 2:18:01] ▶
I only vaguely remember that.
[2:18:01 - 2:18:02] ▶
Oh my God. Like, yeah, he was like, they were like alien leeches, like trying to like leech onto
[2:18:02 - 2:18:06] ▶
him and he was like fighting them all off. Like, again, you know, you think of this and this is
[2:18:06 - 2:18:09] ▶
like, oh, this is, it's gotta be a dream, but he's saying, you know, it's the same type of feeling
[2:18:09 - 2:18:14] ▶
that you would have in an OBE. And I have to take that at face value.
[2:18:14 - 2:18:16] ▶
Because I've experienced that.
[2:18:16 - 2:18:17] ▶
And he talks too about, um, I have this memory of him getting out into the astral or space
[2:18:18 - 2:18:25] ▶
And things looking the same, but different.
[2:18:27 - 2:18:29] ▶
Well, that's, that's the environment that I was in every time I got out of body. It was like an 80%
[2:18:29 - 2:18:33] ▶
match. And the best thing I could sort of reference is the upside down.
[2:18:33 - 2:18:37] ▶
It kind of feels like that where it's like, it's, it's here, but it's not. And it's like, yeah,
[2:18:38 - 2:18:41] ▶
the windows, it's, it's almost like a, um, a projection of what your memory.
[2:18:41 - 2:18:46] ▶
Would piece together.
[2:18:46 - 2:18:47] ▶
That makes sense. That actually makes sense why it would be like that. Because if you are
[2:18:47 - 2:18:51] ▶
interacting with a space, you probably, you're, cause we know that our mind from a mainstream
[2:18:51 - 2:18:57] ▶
neurological perspective, even there's like a model of reality that our brain is using.
[2:18:58 - 2:19:02] ▶
Like, um, Andrew Gallimore, who's become the big, you know, DMT neuroscientist guy,
[2:19:02 - 2:19:07] ▶
he understands this well, like the theory behind how the brain and like the, whatever, I was gonna
[2:19:07 - 2:19:13] ▶
start getting into poor neuroscience, but I'll just skip that part and say, your, your brain is
[2:19:13 - 2:19:19] ▶
constructing reality. It learns how to construct reality and forecast reality and blah, blah, blah.
[2:19:19 - 2:19:23] ▶
Um, so it makes sense that you would have that imprinted in your mind and then you get,
[2:19:23 - 2:19:28] ▶
you're moving around and you're like, oh yeah, this is where the windows are and this is where that stuff
[2:19:28 - 2:19:32] ▶
is. So maybe you're dealing with the ghost of the memory of the place or something.
[2:19:32 - 2:19:36] ▶
That's what it felt like to me. Cause it didn't really make sense. Yeah.
[2:19:36 - 2:19:41] ▶
And any symbology derived from that is probably, you know, subconscious projections of, of your own
[2:19:41 - 2:19:48] ▶
psyche. Um, one thing, uh, this is something I didn't share readily, uh, during, you know,
[2:19:48 - 2:19:55] ▶
the documentary that I sort of pieced together about my OBE experiences, but to go out of body
[2:19:55 - 2:20:02] ▶
through lucid dreaming that happens to me. Okay. Um, so last night I had a lucid dream
[2:20:02 - 2:20:07] ▶
and in the lucid dream, I realized it was a dream and I was like, oh, I deeply desire to leave my
[2:20:07 - 2:20:11] ▶
body and it's something I, and I began to, and I woke up and it was, I, I was coming out of sleep
[2:20:11 - 2:20:16] ▶
anyways. I had to pee. So it like, kind of like, but I felt that initial like, oh, you know, coming out.
[2:20:16 - 2:20:21] ▶
Um, and so for me, that is triggered by a sex dream every single time. Interesting. Yeah. So if I have a lucid
[2:20:21 - 2:20:32] ▶
dream, um, the dream turns lucid because it turns into like an erotic dream. Oh yeah. I have had that
[2:20:32 - 2:20:39] ▶
happen. Yeah. And so that's been my trigger to get out of body and that's helped me get out of body
[2:20:39 - 2:20:43] ▶
like four times is, is, you know, being, being there and all of a sudden something's popping off,
[2:20:43 - 2:20:50] ▶
you know, secretaries over here, whatever it is, you know, and, and I go, oh, nice. Right. And the
[2:20:51 - 2:20:57] ▶
dream and that's when I have the realization and go, wait, this is, I want to leave my body.
[2:20:57 - 2:21:02] ▶
And then I'm just like, I'm gone. Right. Yeah. Um, and so recently in the last like week,
[2:21:02 - 2:21:07] ▶
I've had like six of these dreams. Whoa. Um, and, but. It's cause I'm around bro. Sorry.
[2:21:07 - 2:21:13] ▶
They never, they never end. They never come to like the, you know, the end of it. Um,
[2:21:13 - 2:21:19] ▶
there is, it just begins that way. And then I kind of wake up and I go, and I'm thinking,
[2:21:20 - 2:21:24] ▶
is this my subconscious trying to get me out of my body? Hmm. This is what I've been thinking
[2:21:24 - 2:21:28] ▶
over the last week. It's just, and then you mentioned like these lower thought forms that
[2:21:28 - 2:21:31] ▶
are lingering around in this, and that's what it felt. It feels like they're all little horny
[2:21:31 - 2:21:35] ▶
creatures in my subconscious that want to interact with me, but maybe they're all just saying, hey,
[2:21:35 - 2:21:41] ▶
maybe it's time to get out of body again. It could be. And yeah, maybe those are like
[2:21:41 - 2:21:44] ▶
distractions to keep you held down or something. And you have to have the higher impulse to liberate.
[2:21:44 - 2:21:50] ▶
To liberate. Exactly. I did not think we were going to go down this road.
[2:21:50 - 2:21:53] ▶
Well, here we are. That's what I'm here for. The, the novel,
[2:21:53 - 2:21:56] ▶
the novel paths, the novel circuitous conversational paths. I love doing it.
[2:21:56 - 2:22:01] ▶
Um, can I, do you want to get into some questions? Yeah, whatever, whatever you want to do.
[2:22:01 - 2:22:05] ▶
We got some, uh, we got some audience questions here that I'll pull up. I'll go turn the camera on
[2:22:05 - 2:22:08] ▶
here. Yeah. Uh, speaking of Bob Monroe, weirdly, this comes full circle to a different part of our
[2:22:08 - 2:22:14] ▶
conversation because the, I remember the chapter that landed on my psyche with the most force was
[2:22:14 - 2:22:20] ▶
chapter 20 of that book. And I know it fairly well. Cause I did a, I ended up doing a read through
[2:22:20 - 2:22:25] ▶
of it, but it's sort of a departure of the narrative, the overarching narrative of the book.
[2:22:26 - 2:22:32] ▶
And he, he goes into more of a, I'm going to tell you a story mode. And it starts with him.
[2:22:32 - 2:22:37] ▶
I think it starts with him like interacting with what he perceives to be a beam of light
[2:22:37 - 2:22:41] ▶
at night, but eventually it culminates in this scenario where he has a vision of what he
[2:22:41 - 2:22:48] ▶
immediately knows. This is what people think is God. And it's not really what people think it is.
[2:22:49 - 2:22:57] ▶
And it's this basically these much, much higher beings that sound very much like, you know,
[2:22:57 - 2:23:04] ▶
it sounds very Lavenda pilled ancient aliens, higher beings type vibe where they're massively,
[2:23:04 - 2:23:11] ▶
more powerful spiritually, psi wise, whatever technologically. And then he has that vision
[2:23:12 - 2:23:19] ▶
of the pumping station. Do you remember this? Like the Lush?
[2:23:19 - 2:23:21] ▶
Yeah. He doesn't use the word Lush, but that's, but that's definitely like the proto Lush story
[2:23:21 - 2:23:27] ▶
before he's using the word where he comes to realize that he thinks this planet is essentially
[2:23:27 - 2:23:33] ▶
being mined for some kind of resource by these beings that we conceive of as God. And they're
[2:23:33 - 2:23:39] ▶
somehow coming and extracting this. And he was seeing them or trying to interact with them to some
[2:23:39 - 2:23:46] ▶
degree. But I remember the chapter ends in the most like doomer way where he was like,
[2:23:46 - 2:23:53] ▶
and then I knew the God of my childhood was dead forever or something like that. And he was like
[2:23:53 - 2:23:58] ▶
in tears and that's how the chapter ends. Oh no.
[2:23:58 - 2:24:01] ▶
It's him kind of having this vision of this. Being disillusioned.
[2:24:01 - 2:24:03] ▶
Yeah. This like dystopian, uh, you know, Gnostic Lush farm sort of thing. And we should say that he,
[2:24:03 - 2:24:10] ▶
like, he is not negative overall. And he eventually kind of, in his, I don't know,
[2:24:10 - 2:24:16] ▶
I don't think I've even read the third book, but I know enough of the broad strokes to know
[2:24:16 - 2:24:20] ▶
that he goes in a much more positive direction toward the end with all of his metaphysics. But,
[2:24:20 - 2:24:26] ▶
but that is a crazy story. And it is one that left a huge, uh, impression on me. And I think in some
[2:24:26 - 2:24:32] ▶
way could be true. Yeah. Maybe perhaps, or maybe just the, even the, uh, the Lush itself isn't what
[2:24:32 - 2:24:39] ▶
he thinks it is. Mm-hmm .
[2:24:39 - 2:24:41] ▶
You know, maybe he was just given that impression, but you know, maybe that is information. Yeah.
[2:24:41 - 2:24:45] ▶
Maybe it's consciousness. Maybe it's experience. Maybe it's, you know, I don't know. Uh, it is
[2:24:45 - 2:24:52] ▶
interesting, you know, and speak to guys like David Icke. Right. Who, you know, is a big proponent
[2:24:52 - 2:24:58] ▶
of, of that theory as well. You know, I always just find, so it feels like such a lower density
[2:24:58 - 2:25:05] ▶
thing to do. It does. Um, it feels like something we would do, like our evil part would do. And I just
[2:25:05 - 2:25:11] ▶
can't conceive of anything being more intelligent and more malevolent at the same time.
[2:25:11 - 2:25:16] ▶
I have a hard time with that as well. Yeah. I think, I think the more you go there,
[2:25:18 - 2:25:21] ▶
the, the more empathetic you become. I would, I would assume. Yeah. But I don't even want to give
[2:25:21 - 2:25:27] ▶
counter arguments. Yeah. Cause I, I definitely gravitate toward, like I pick up what you're
[2:25:27 - 2:25:31] ▶
putting down. Yeah. Even if you're like, um, an intergalactic species or a space fearing,
[2:25:31 - 2:25:36] ▶
a space fearing species, you probably couldn't become that if you didn't all see eye to eye on
[2:25:36 - 2:25:45] ▶
whatever planet it is you're emanating from. Yeah. Like, you know, of course, um, blades,
[2:25:45 - 2:25:52] ▶
you know, steel sharpens steel and to a certain point, like wars create technology.
[2:25:52 - 2:25:58] ▶
Uh, but we're under the impression that's the only way to get technological advancements. I feel
[2:25:59 - 2:26:03] ▶
like cooperation totally would propel us into space much quicker. You know, if we worked with
[2:26:03 - 2:26:11] ▶
all the countries in the world and put all the greatest minds together and didn't have
[2:26:11 - 2:26:14] ▶
compartmentalized weird factions. And, and so, yeah, I think that any civilization that is intelligent
[2:26:14 - 2:26:20] ▶
and visiting, if that's a thing that they're probably peaceful. I'm on the same page.
[2:26:20 - 2:26:26] ▶
All right. We've got some questions here. If you're a member, you, uh, one of the many perks
[2:26:26 - 2:26:31] ▶
that you get is potentially having the opportunity to ask our guests a question. So I prompt you guys
[2:26:31 - 2:26:36] ▶
out in the discord and you guys brought the heat. So here we go.
[2:26:36 - 2:26:40] ▶
Deep question by Tattleslug is the resurgence of a esoteric, sorry, is the resurgence of esoteric
[2:26:45 - 2:26:52] ▶
interest a symptom of collapse or is it something calling people back to it?
[2:26:52 - 2:26:59] ▶
Yeah. I'm, I'm a believer that there are kinds of wisdom that it's almost impossible for them to die
[2:26:59 - 2:27:07] ▶
out because their core truths about reality, um, core truths that you and I might disagree on,
[2:27:07 - 2:27:13] ▶
on some levels. But I think that people eventually come to the realization that there is clearly
[2:27:13 - 2:27:21] ▶
something missing, like something that we may have. And, and you could argue this is some kind
[2:27:21 - 2:27:26] ▶
of Jungian, uh, you know, neurosis in the collective unconscious, the idea that we're missing something
[2:27:26 - 2:27:32] ▶
we used to have, but maybe that thing never existed. But I don't think so. I do think we used to be more
[2:27:32 - 2:27:37] ▶
in touch with higher realities. And I do think that there are methods that we used to know that
[2:27:37 - 2:27:43] ▶
not to get conspiratorial right off the bat, but I do think that it's quite possible that those methods
[2:27:44 - 2:27:49] ▶
may have been robbed from us purposefully by the people in power because there was a, an absolute
[2:27:49 - 2:27:55] ▶
purposeful destruction of things like mystery temples and stuff like that, um, on the part of the
[2:27:56 - 2:28:02] ▶
emperor of Rome. Like.
[2:28:02 - 2:28:03] ▶
I mean, even in Iraq a few years ago, you saw us where the soldiers were.
[2:28:03 - 2:28:07] ▶
Destroying historic statues and temples and whatnot.
[2:28:08 - 2:28:11] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, if there's a, if there's an idea that, uh, you know, one way you could look at
[2:28:11 - 2:28:19] ▶
it as they purposely tried to hide that information and cloister it for themselves so that only they
[2:28:19 - 2:28:23] ▶
could use it. Um, and now it's been, you know, gobbled up by monsters, like the whole
[2:28:23 - 2:28:28] ▶
Epstein sphere and whatever that I think that's possible. But I also think it's possible that just
[2:28:28 - 2:28:34] ▶
through sheer religious dogma and indoctrination, you think this flies in the face of the true God
[2:28:34 - 2:28:40] ▶
and you want to destroy this, but you might be completely misguided and brainwashed by somebody
[2:28:40 - 2:28:45] ▶
who knows more than you do. And you're just mindlessly acting on their behalf of furthering
[2:28:45 - 2:28:50] ▶
their agenda. So I think that when you do that, when you destroy those things, it may take hundreds
[2:28:50 - 2:28:56] ▶
of years, it may take thousands of years, but I think those ideas will never go away. And it's sort
[2:28:56 - 2:29:00] ▶
of like that, um, there's that, uh, Maitreya Buddha prophecy, which is basically like, as soon
[2:29:00 - 2:29:06] ▶
as all knowledge of the previous Buddha is gone, the new Buddha will be born. The Maitreya Buddha will be
[2:29:06 - 2:29:11] ▶
born. And there's a very similar, um, it's like a cycle. Yeah. There's like a hermetic prophecy like
[2:29:11 - 2:29:16] ▶
that too. There's actually a video of Graham Hancock reading this prophecy on, on YouTube
[2:29:16 - 2:29:21] ▶
that has a lot of views where he's talking about, you know, knowledge of the gods, it's going to go
[2:29:21 - 2:29:26] ▶
away. And this is something written thousands of years ago and I'm getting chills saying it right
[2:29:26 - 2:29:30] ▶
now because it's, I think it's so true. Um, basically all the sacred knowledge will slowly leak
[2:29:30 - 2:29:36] ▶
out and men will believe mankind will believe that it's all nonsense. Like they don't even exist.
[2:29:36 - 2:29:42] ▶
There is no higher truth. There is no sacred science. And then when that happens, like the
[2:29:42 - 2:29:47] ▶
truth will be re revealed. And these are prophecies I like because I think they're, they're just
[2:29:47 - 2:29:53] ▶
archetypally true and it's not like, you know, I don't know. It's like, it's more of like a natural
[2:29:53 - 2:29:59] ▶
ebb and flow of how information is, is, um, is sort of lost and found throughout time. Um, but also like,
[2:29:59 - 2:30:06] ▶
you know, there is the idea that if you, you know, destroy all of humanity and all of the information,
[2:30:06 - 2:30:13] ▶
um, eventually we won't get Jesus, but we'll get something like Jesus.
[2:30:14 - 2:30:19] ▶
You know, we, we will get math the same way we had it, which is interesting. We will get like
[2:30:20 - 2:30:26] ▶
physics and chemicals and atoms and whatever. And that, you know, that information is kind of,
[2:30:26 - 2:30:31] ▶
you know, not, uh, not beholden to space or time or anything else, but these stories seem to come
[2:30:32 - 2:30:38] ▶
back regardless. Yeah.
[2:30:38 - 2:30:39] ▶
And so that is also perhaps a fundamental property of, you know, who we are.
[2:30:39 - 2:30:45] ▶
Yeah. And then there's other places we could go with this too, like the idea that there are
[2:30:45 - 2:30:47] ▶
yuga cycles, right? So there's there, or, um, this, this concept of ages, right? Where you,
[2:30:47 - 2:30:54] ▶
over these really, really long periods of time, you shift into darker.
[2:30:54 - 2:30:58] ▶
Or more golden ages.
[2:30:59 - 2:31:00] ▶
And in those more golden ages, we're much, we, we understand reality much more clearly,
[2:31:00 - 2:31:05] ▶
the higher realm much more clearly. And in the dark ages, it's just, we're cut off from it again,
[2:31:05 - 2:31:10] ▶
almost cyclically. Like it's the winter.
[2:31:10 - 2:31:12] ▶
It's like the psychic winter of reality or something. And supposedly we are coming out of that. We're
[2:31:12 - 2:31:17] ▶
supposedly coming out of the Kali Yuga into the next, I forget which the next yuga is, but
[2:31:17 - 2:31:22] ▶
it's a much better, I think it is a golden.
[2:31:22 - 2:31:24] ▶
Supposed to be. Yeah.
[2:31:24 - 2:31:25] ▶
It could be bro. I hope we make it to the next yuga.
[2:31:26 - 2:31:29] ▶
Hashtag my yuga. All right. We got another question here for Marcus G.
[2:31:29 - 2:31:33] ▶
Marcus G writes, I'm planning a gateway experience, the Monroe Institute. Any suggestion on how I should
[2:31:44 - 2:31:50] ▶
You know, I had the same question and when, before I went and I was, um, I was kind of under the,
[2:31:50 - 2:31:57] ▶
the notion that I should be doing a lot to prepare, you know, having gone to do ayahuasca and other
[2:31:58 - 2:32:03] ▶
things like that, they put a lot of stress on the, what they call the dieta, which is basically you
[2:32:03 - 2:32:07] ▶
got to purify yourself. So usually what that means is, you know, stop eating certain kinds of
[2:32:07 - 2:32:13] ▶
food. Like pork is definitely always seems to be, it's interesting how pork it seems to be forbidden
[2:32:13 - 2:32:18] ▶
across like every culture, like, cause that, this is like.
[2:32:18 - 2:32:20] ▶
But this is like a South American shaman thing. And they're telling you don't eat pork, you know,
[2:32:22 - 2:32:28] ▶
don't eat too much salt, don't have sex. And there's, and there's more and less, um, stringent
[2:32:28 - 2:32:33] ▶
versions of it. But that was always my mindset. And again, reading from all these philosophers,
[2:32:33 - 2:32:38] ▶
they really stress purification before you try to approach deeper realities. But they're like,
[2:32:38 - 2:32:45] ▶
no, just do whatever you want. Like, let us know what your dietary preferences are.
[2:32:45 - 2:32:49] ▶
Yeah. They're like, don't stop smoking or drinking on account of this. Obviously you can't bring drugs
[2:32:49 - 2:32:54] ▶
in, but like if you smoke cigarettes or if you drink coffee, they're like, the last thing they
[2:32:54 - 2:32:58] ▶
want you to do is be in like a sort of, uh, withdrawal. Yeah. Withdrawal state, you know,
[2:32:58 - 2:33:04] ▶
while you're trying to do these things. Yeah.
[2:33:04 - 2:33:06] ▶
Bob was a pretty notorious smoker, I think too. Yeah.
[2:33:06 - 2:33:08] ▶
So I don't, you know, but I mean, that that's, that's my opinion is maybe think about some things
[2:33:08 - 2:33:13] ▶
that you can mindfully relinquish symbolically to the effort of trying to go into these deeper
[2:33:13 - 2:33:20] ▶
realities, but they're, they're not going to make you do it. It's kind of got to be your own
[2:33:20 - 2:33:24] ▶
motivation and it will be hard because the food there is honestly pretty good. Yeah.
[2:33:25 - 2:33:29] ▶
And if you're like, no, give me the vegetarian food. You, you may well have some,
[2:33:29 - 2:33:32] ▶
some, uh, some FOMO on your, on your homie's plate next to you, but, but yeah, it's, it's kind of up
[2:33:33 - 2:33:38] ▶
to you, you know, it's kind of up to whatever, whatever feels right for you in terms of approaching
[2:33:38 - 2:33:44] ▶
the experience. I ended up not really doing too much to prepare for mine, but.
[2:33:44 - 2:33:48] ▶
Get your ducks in a row. Yeah.
[2:33:48 - 2:33:49] ▶
Yeah. Get your, get your things sorted before you go out. Like the last thing you want to do is have to
[2:33:49 - 2:33:55] ▶
deal with things while you're there. And even more, the last thing you want to do is deal with a thousand
[2:33:55 - 2:33:59] ▶
things as soon as you get back. Totally. So if you can get ahead, because one of the,
[2:33:59 - 2:34:03] ▶
one of the advices they give you is don't make any life changing decisions for three weeks after.
[2:34:03 - 2:34:08] ▶
Yeah. And I can tell you exactly why,
[2:34:08 - 2:34:09] ▶
because you're going to be living on a weird little cloud, uh, and be in, you're going to feel fuzzy
[2:34:10 - 2:34:15] ▶
all day and, and make these decisions based on the woo, which not, which might not, you know, uh,
[2:34:15 - 2:34:22] ▶
be so smart in here, down here in the physical realm. Um, and they might be overall good decisions,
[2:34:22 - 2:34:27] ▶
but, but, um, yeah. Yeah. That's very good practical advice. I wasn't even thinking from
[2:34:27 - 2:34:32] ▶
a practical perspective, so that's super good advice. Yeah. And like people you're going to,
[2:34:32 - 2:34:39] ▶
I would think afterwards, the people you're going to be around are going to annoy you.
[2:34:39 - 2:34:44] ▶
Yeah. Because of their, uh, sort of lower density physical problems that you have no time for,
[2:34:44 - 2:34:52] ▶
because you're this like spiritually ascended being, um, which only lasts so long, you know,
[2:34:52 - 2:34:58] ▶
you eventually kind of like phase out of that. But for that time period, people will kind of annoy you.
[2:34:58 - 2:35:02] ▶
You'll learn to let it go, but even more so you'll annoy them with your like higher than now.
[2:35:03 - 2:35:07] ▶
So keep yourself in check. I would say as well, a lot of grounding. Yeah.
[2:35:07 - 2:35:10] ▶
Good luck getting people to do an hour of focus, Ted. Yeah.
[2:35:10 - 2:35:14] ▶
Because like, I think that's probably what everybody experiences is like,
[2:35:14 - 2:35:17] ▶
you got to try this when you get back. Yeah.
[2:35:17 - 2:35:19] ▶
And then everybody's like, oh, what?
[2:35:19 - 2:35:20] ▶
Yeah. Meditate for an hour. Yeah.
[2:35:20 - 2:35:21] ▶
Are you insane? Yeah.
[2:35:21 - 2:35:23] ▶
I can do five minutes. I know.
[2:35:23 - 2:35:24] ▶
All right. Good advice. Last one. Stan B.
[2:35:25 - 2:35:29] ▶
It's a good question.
[2:35:31 - 2:35:32] ▶
It's not coming up. Oh, there it is.
[2:35:35 - 2:35:40] ▶
I had the knowing that it would.
[2:35:43 - 2:35:44] ▶
Knowing without knowing.
[2:35:46 - 2:35:46] ▶
I had the Ramsey and knowing.
[2:35:46 - 2:35:48] ▶
How did Plato come up with his theories? Was he an experiencer?
[2:35:50 - 2:35:54] ▶
It's a super good question.
[2:35:54 - 2:35:55] ▶
A couple of things jump to mind immediately. There,
[2:35:57 - 2:36:00] ▶
there is a lot of people who believe that there were secret initiatory doctrines,
[2:36:00 - 2:36:05] ▶
because when you read the platonic, um, dialogues, there's a lot of,
[2:36:05 - 2:36:09] ▶
there's tons of veiled references to things that you actually have to read between the lines
[2:36:10 - 2:36:15] ▶
to understand what they are. So there's hidden doctrines within the text. And there's also people
[2:36:16 - 2:36:21] ▶
who believe there were initiatory practices within the platonic academy.
[2:36:21 - 2:36:26] ▶
I know there are books about this. I can't bring them to the top of mind, but we know for a fact,
[2:36:27 - 2:36:33] ▶
actually, that he was an experiencer because like I mentioned before, he had been to the temple of
[2:36:33 - 2:36:37] ▶
Eleusis. He had been initiated into the mystery, the mysteries there. And that does entail encountering
[2:36:37 - 2:36:43] ▶
the goddess. And he spoke very highly of that experience and like held it in the highest sacred
[2:36:43 - 2:36:49] ▶
regard. And then we also know, we don't know for a fact that he was a Pythagorean, which again is
[2:36:49 - 2:36:54] ▶
initiatory and esoteric, but it's highly implied throughout all of his writings. Like he's talking
[2:36:54 - 2:37:00] ▶
about Pythagorean concepts all the time. He's actually hiding things like the Pythagorean music
[2:37:00 - 2:37:06] ▶
scale within Plato's Republic. So the whole book, like the whole hundred thousand plus word book is
[2:37:06 - 2:37:13] ▶
actually secretly organized like a musical scale. And then at the point in the scale, that's the golden
[2:37:13 - 2:37:19] ▶
ratio. He gives the divided line allegory, which is also a golden section. So he's doing things like
[2:37:19 - 2:37:26] ▶
Yeah, it's unbelievable, dude. Like I really think that to just read his dialogues exoterically and say,
[2:37:28 - 2:37:35] ▶
okay, that's what it's about. That's layer one. Like the texts in and of themselves are initiatory.
[2:37:35 - 2:37:42] ▶
So you knew that he understood things on that level, that there's always an opportunity to see a deeper
[2:37:42 - 2:37:49] ▶
truth and a deeper truth. And he was trying to hide that in his text. So I have no doubt in my mind,
[2:37:49 - 2:37:54] ▶
that he was a kind of experiencer. Like he had come into contact with higher states of consciousness,
[2:37:54 - 2:37:59] ▶
with other entities probably. And you really, really see it in the successive holders of
[2:37:59 - 2:38:07] ▶
the Platonic tradition, the Neoplatonists and everybody else. They're all super spiritual, pious,
[2:38:07 - 2:38:13] ▶
philosopher, sage type dudes. Like some of them literally are priests of Apollo. Some of them
[2:38:13 - 2:38:19] ▶
are practicing theurgy, which is literally very, very phenomena adjacent because they're,
[2:38:19 - 2:38:25] ▶
they're doing like magical rituals to come into contact with divine presences and stuff like that.
[2:38:25 - 2:38:30] ▶
So yeah, I, I highly, highly suspect he was an experiencer. And I think that his theories were
[2:38:30 - 2:38:37] ▶
definitely informed from sort of higher epiphanies. And that's another thing you can infer from that
[2:38:37 - 2:38:42] ▶
divided line, which for, for people that aren't familiar with this, it's, it's alongside Plato's cave.
[2:38:42 - 2:38:48] ▶
So he gives the Plato's cave story, you know, there's people, they're trapped in the cave,
[2:38:48 - 2:38:53] ▶
they're spending their whole lives chained up looking at the wall. They only see shadows. They
[2:38:53 - 2:38:57] ▶
think the shadows are real. Somebody escapes the cave. They see the outside world. They see the sun,
[2:38:57 - 2:39:03] ▶
they have this crazy epiphany and they go back in, they try to free the people. The people don't want
[2:39:03 - 2:39:07] ▶
to be freed. They, they kill the person who's trying to free them. But then he basically,
[2:39:07 - 2:39:14] ▶
alongside that gives us divided line and says that like the divided line is also the plate.
[2:39:14 - 2:39:20] ▶
It's also the cave story. I feel like I'm like just rambling madly here, but I'm going to try to
[2:39:20 - 2:39:24] ▶
bring this together. You're doing fine.
[2:39:24 - 2:39:26] ▶
But what, what he's saying in the divided line is there's a kind of knowing that's above all of
[2:39:26 - 2:39:31] ▶
the intellectual kinds of knowing. It's a pure experiencing, um, sort of knowing, and this is
[2:39:31 - 2:39:36] ▶
noesis and it's very difficult to try to encapsulate this concept of noesis. Um, but it's, but it's
[2:39:36 - 2:39:43] ▶
knowing and being at the same time. It's like just having an epiphany kind of knowing.
[2:39:43 - 2:39:47] ▶
And I think. Knowing without knowing.
[2:39:47 - 2:39:49] ▶
Yeah. There you go. Yeah.
[2:39:49 - 2:39:50] ▶
So then if you have to, you know, where did his theories come from? If he's.
[2:39:54 - 2:39:56] ▶
If he's mainly informed by that kind of knowing or holding that kind of knowing to be the highest,
[2:39:57 - 2:40:01] ▶
in the highest regard. Yeah.
[2:40:01 - 2:40:02] ▶
Well, he must clearly have some understanding of that.
[2:40:03 - 2:40:06] ▶
Would he, uh, he'd be an interesting guest on the podcast, wouldn't he?
[2:40:08 - 2:40:11] ▶
You'd probably have to have him on a few times.
[2:40:12 - 2:40:13] ▶
What's so, what's so interesting is like, he's never the one talking. He's never a character in
[2:40:14 - 2:40:19] ▶
any of his own dialogues. He's never, um, yeah, he's very, the only thing we have that's actually
[2:40:19 - 2:40:25] ▶
written from his POV is a series of letters and many of them are disputed.
[2:40:25 - 2:40:29] ▶
So whether or not they're real.
[2:40:29 - 2:40:31] ▶
Kind of like Shakespeare.
[2:40:31 - 2:40:32] ▶
That's a whole rabbit hole.
[2:40:33 - 2:40:34] ▶
Well, Michael Phillip, it's been an absolute pleasure having you, man.
[2:40:35 - 2:40:37] ▶
I feel so expanded after talking to you.
[2:40:38 - 2:40:41] ▶
Um, I, I'm always more knowledgeable and I, I walk away from our interactions being,
[2:40:42 - 2:40:47] ▶
you know, more informed.
[2:40:47 - 2:40:48] ▶
And so thank you for joining me.
[2:40:48 - 2:40:50] ▶
This has been an absolute blast.
[2:40:51 - 2:40:52] ▶
Thank you for your hospitality.
[2:40:52 - 2:40:54] ▶
This is, this is the most fun I think I've ever had on a podcast.
[2:40:54 - 2:40:57] ▶
So thank you, brother.
[2:40:57 - 2:40:58] ▶
Um, go check Michael out at third eyedrops.
[2:40:59 - 2:41:02] ▶
I'll leave the link below.
[2:41:02 - 2:41:04] ▶
And if you're in town for contact in the desert, you'll be there.
[2:41:05 - 2:41:08] ▶
He's doing a live podcast there as well.
[2:41:09 - 2:41:11] ▶
So you guys can check them out.
[2:41:11 - 2:41:12] ▶
I'll be there as well.
[2:41:12 - 2:41:13] ▶