223 segments
I've spent 10 years in Marine Corps.
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Four years working with the Air Force as a civilian.
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Doing experimental testing on aircraft.
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Since my Marine Corps days, I was a pilot in the service.
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And a flight of pilot and fought in World War II after.
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Later, a lot of part of World War II and the Korean War conflict.
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So I got out of the Marine Corps.
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I took a job with the Air Force at Wright Patterson.
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Doing experimental flight testing on various different modifications and tech orders that
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they had incorporated in their aircraft, various different aircraft.
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F89, back then the B47, F102, and those aircraft.
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While I was at Wright Patterson, of course, I was approached by an individual.
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And I'm not going to mention his name to determine if I wanted to work in an area and just new creative
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And apparently that was the flying dissimulator.
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What they had done, they had selected several of us.
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And they reassigned me to a link aviation, which was a simulator manufacturer.
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At that time they were building what they call the C11B and F102 simulator, B47 simulator
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And they wanted us to get the experience before we actually start at work on the flying dissimulator.
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It's by spent 37 years working on.
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The simulator wasn't actually functional until around 1958, where the simulator was actually
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Craft that they used to build, which is a 30 meter one, was the one that crashed in Arizona,
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Kingman, Arizona, back in 53 or 52.
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That's the one they used.
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That's the first one that they took out to the test site.
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It landed about 15 miles from which it used to be an Army Air Base, which is now defunct
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I forget that I can't recall the name of it.
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With that particular craft, there were some problems with number one, getting it on the
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flatbed to take it up to Area 51.
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They couldn't get it across the dam because of the road.
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It had to be bars across the Colorado River at the time.
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And then taken up to where people go now up 93 out to Area 51, which was the first
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just being really constructed at the time and taken down those dirt roads and out to
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that particular area of the test site.
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There were four aliens aboard that thing, and those aliens went to Los Alamos.
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And they put certain people in there with them, people that were astrophysicist, just general
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scientists to ask them questions.
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The way the story was told to me was there was only one of them that would talk to any
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of these scientists that they put in the lab with them.
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Only one of the aliens, the rest wouldn't talk to anybody or even have a conversation with
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First, they thought it was all ESP or what do I want to say?
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Yeah, mental telepathy.
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But most of that is kind of a joke to me because they actually speak, maybe not like we
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do, but they actually speak and can converse.
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The difference between this aircraft and this and other this that they had looked at was
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that it was much simpler design.
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In the simulator it was one big thing different.
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The thing that like Lazar calls the reactor, okay, we didn't have a reactor.
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We had a space in a thing that looked like the reactor, but that wasn't the thing we
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operated the simulator with.
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We operated with six large capacitors that were charged with a million volts each, say,
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there were six million volts in those capacitors.
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Their largest capacitors ever built.
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These particular capacitors, they last for 30 minutes so you can get in there and actually
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work the controls and do what you had to get the aircraft or get the simulator to this
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Actually, when it was operable, it would lift off the ball about a certain amount of
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damage in it that we had that it actually lifted up and it could actually turn a certain
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amount of degrees left to right or whatever.
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In the simulator now, you'll notice that there are no seat belts, right?
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In the same thing with the actual craft, no seat belts.
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You don't need seat belts because when you fly one of these things, upside down, you
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can't get it right down.
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There's no upside down like in a regular aircraft.
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You just don't feel it.
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You have your own gravitational feel right inside.
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If you're flying upside down, do you, you right side up?
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Do one ending windows.
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The only place we had any visibility at all and it was done with cameras or video type
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things at that time.
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It was in the turret section.
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Takes a lot of time because of the area and the smallest of it.
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Just to raise your hand, it becomes complicated.
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You have to be trained with your mind to accept what you're going to actually feel.
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So there's some perceptual distortion.
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There's a lot of distortion.
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Just moving about, it's after a while after you get used to it and all you do it, it's
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You got to know where everything is.
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You got to understand what's going to happen to your body.
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It's no different than accepting the G-forces when you're flying an aircraft or coming out
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It's a little ball game.
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Our flight crews ever take one of these discs out in the space.
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You know I don't know that.
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I don't really know that.
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I'm saying it probably took a while to train enough of the people or sufficient time.
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The whole big problem with the disc is that it's so exacting in its design and so forth.
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It can't be used as a aircraft today with dropping bombs and having machine guns and wings
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and that kind of stuff.
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The design is so exacting that you can't add anything.
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It's got to be just right.
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There's a big problem in the design of where things are put say you know that where
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the center to aircraft is and that type of thing.
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Even the fact that we raised the three-figged so that all the guys could get in and stuff.
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The actual ship was extended back to its original configuration but actually raised.
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We had a long period of introduction into meetings say an EBE in the EO.
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And I call them J. Rod.
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Of course that's what they call them but that wasn't his, you know I don't know if that was his real name or not.
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But that's the name that the linguist gave him.
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He knew J. Rod and I did draw Sketch M one day before I left him in a meeting.
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And I provided it to some people but that was my impression of what I saw.
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He'd sound just like if you spoke he'd sound like you.
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He's like when he, you know, a parrot.
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But he'd try and ask you a question you know.
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A lot of times you'd have a hard time understanding you know because if you didn't put it on paper and explain yourself
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at the time you couldn't give you a good answer.
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Well the preparation was basically going to, first of all, went to all of the different nationalities in the world.
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Human nationalities.
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Yeah human nationalities.
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Then they got into going into other forms of life, you know.
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Even down to you know animals and that type of thing.
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And the fact that you know this J. Rod had, his skin was pinkish but a little bit rough you know.
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And that kind of stuff.
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Not, you know, not horrible looking, you know, or to me he didn't look horrible looking.
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Some of the guys you know that was in the particular groups that I was in.
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They never even made it, you know, as far as I was concerned.
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You know when they gave you the psychological question, you know, I just answered him the way I felt and I had no problem.
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And that's what they wanted to know.
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You know if you'd become like you know, here's an alien, he's from here and I know what else kind of thing you know.
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But it never bothered me you know, it didn't not too much.
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So what kind, you know what kind of scientific advice he would give the crew that was building or back engineering these?
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Basically it was only engineering advice or science advice.
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You know, a safe example I performed the calculation.
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And there's a, I spoke of a book that it's not a book.
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It's a big assembly of various different divisions of ungravitational technology.
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And the key element in there, all the information wasn't there because even our guys, our people that with the top mathematicians and stuff couldn't figure some of this stuff out.
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So we would take it and then you know, we'd have to, with these design, you know, there's a requirement requirement for calculations.
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And we'd have to prove by calculations, you know, that this thing's going to operate.
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No different than anything else we do.
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And sometimes you get into a spot where you try and try and try and even if the user formulas to come up with this thing that they'd provide you, it wouldn't work.
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And that's where he'd come in, you know, telling them to look at this and see what we did wrong.
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The last 40 years or so or 60 years, maybe there's, I'd say 40 years anyway, not counting the simulators.
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I'm talking about actual craft is probably maybe two or three dozen, very different sizes.
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That we've built or that we have that we built.
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I don't know much about the ones that, you know, that they brought here.
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I know about that one out of Kingman, but that's about it.
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And I know the company that hauled it out of there and who's out here now.
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Couple of different versions that they use. One was a chemical version. One was a solid version.
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And I don't even know the chemistry of the chemical version.
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But there's one that operates with under chemicals, with certain chemicals.
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Actually, what they've done with, I think with these triangles that people have seen is they've got like two or three of, say, 30 meter crafts that are in the center of it.
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In the outside perimeter, you know, you could put anything you want as long as these particular ones are meat that design criteria.
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Then it's more or less all that other stuff on the outside is tag along.
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But I'm sure if they put a large weapon up there and fired it would probably, you know, not work.
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Or they'd kill himself.
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There was certain reasons for the secrecy. I could understand that. No different than, you know, the first atomic bomb that they built it.
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But, you know, they're getting so far ahead now with aircraft design and people have come on their visualizing and seeing some of the design aspects that are put in some of the aircraft today.
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And eventually, I'm saying, like I told you, you got, you gentlemen earlier that 2003, most of this stuff will be out and everybody's plate to look at.
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Maybe not the way that everybody expects it, but in some manner, they determine appropriate, you know, to show everybody, hey, look what we got.
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So you think, you think this is the year 2000 that we're doing this interview. So you think within three years, the public will be told.
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I said this years ago 2003, and the reason why I said that the document I signed engine 2003.
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And you're not the only one that signed. And I'm not the only one.
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See this, I call it Fogate, or that's what they call it, Final Manels of Gravitational, you know, techniques basically.
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But it's a volume, I'm sure that manual now is a six-bander or no different than anything else that they build for design criteria because anything we do today, we have to have a design criteria manual, you know, and they put all the information in that.
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And if you ever get one of these volumes of these documents, you'd be on top of the world.
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There are those who feel that the government had hardware, Gordon Cooper, again, indicated that he has heard some highly placed rumours concerning crashed UFOs, a retrieval.
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He says not only of just the UFO, but remains of bodies.
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I came close closest to a report like this, talking to an individual at GTE, who holds a high managerial position, who has a top secret clearance.
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And who worked as a civilian for the Air Force back in 1953. And his expertise was landing gear and also assessing the damage done to crashed aircraft.
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And he was on loan to the Atomic Energy Commission, out at Frenchman's flats in Nevada at the time. And he was assessing damage done to bridges and different types of buildings that were subjected to atomic bond tests from different heights.
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There'd be atomic bombs on towers and a parachute and so forth. And he claims that right in the middle of these tests that he was called away and told to report to a certain office that he was going to have to go on a two day mission to a three day mission for something that he couldn't write a talk about.
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And he claims just briefly the story goes like this. He was flown from Indian Springs Air Force base to a civilian airfield in Arizona.
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I think it was I think it was Tucson or Phoenix. I can't remember. I have to look at the report. But at the airfield, he was meant by an air policeman who escorted him to a military bus that all the windows blacked out.
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He get on the bus and he was told not to talk to anybody to surrender all his valuables, which he did. And they put him in a cloth bag, put his name on it.
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A full colonel after everybody was assembled, told them that we're going to go for a long ride that they were not to talk to each other that they were going to investigate the crash of a super secret vehicle, which they couldn't talk about. They had taken oath.
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And when they finally got there, he think he thought they drove around for two or three hours. He didn't know they took his watch away.
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When they got there, there was a bright light on the bus, blinding bright light. And it was his turn to get out. He says he couldn't see anything. This light was just blazing.
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When they finally got behind the light, there was this 30 foot in diameter object shape, like a bowl and vert upon a bowl with a slight rim around it with the orifices.
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And he was told to just tremble in the falling speed and forward speed at time of impact. And that was all.
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And he wasn't asking any other questions about the object. He said that there were generators there. There were power cables going into the object.
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There was an opening and there were people inside doing something. There was a tent pitch beside the object with remains of small beings.
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But he wasn't allowed to ask any questions and so forth. When he got back to the bus, they were all told each person that one out and did their own thing that they were going to go back and they were going to hand right a report of their findings.
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They were not to type it. They would have called a number. It would be reported that would be picked up. And they were so on the sea. Now that's just a peripheral summary of what this fellow told me.
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I conducted a character reference check when all the way back from where he works at GTE now all the way back to right, Paterson, the Air Force Base, which was right, feel in those days, talked to people later.
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I replaced people who still knew this individual. Everybody gave a clean bill of health. He didn't seek any publicity.
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There was a movie called Hang a Rating that came out, put out by Sun Classics. And they called me because they knew of this particular sighting that investigated.
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They offered this fellow money through me to do a documentary. He returned it down. He didn't want to compromise the story at all in any way using his name because of his position at GTE and because what his peers would think of him because he had taken an oath.
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So you have highly placed rumors that they actually have crash retrieval cases, whether they're true or not, we only can wait and see, but they come from people with impeccable credentials.
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I can assure you that your name will not be used.
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They made up a name, Fritz, to protect the witness's true identity.
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And I think the best place to do it probably would be in my planetarium away from the kids and the telephone and things like that.
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Waiting for his friend to arrive, Rayn nervously fiddled with his telescopes. He remembered his extensive investigations into the man's reliability as a witness.
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In the case of Fritz, I started in 1973 and all the way back through the various companies he worked before, right back to right Paterson Air Force Base, talked to people he worked with.
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And they all gave him a very clean build of health, a reputable man, honest man, not the type that would fabricate a hoax and a very efficient engineer manager.
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As the man arrived, Rayn recalled the years his friend had wavered about breaking an oath of secrecy. He recalled their long arguments about a greater public good.
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Would the years of patient persuasion at last pay off?
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So I understand it, Fritz. You were working for the United States Air Force.
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The story began late one night in 1953 at Frenchman's flat Nevada. The man had been working as a consultant on blast effects of atom bombs when he was suddenly ordered to report for a new mission.
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What happened after that?
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We were put on a bus, which the windows were all completely covered with curtains and in some cases a black paper taped to the windows.
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And we're driven for three or four hours and we're not sure just where we were going. Several of us tried to guess where we might have been.
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We are at that time came to the conclusion was an area of King Mineras, owner.
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After getting off the bus has recreated here, the scientists were taken to an even more remote location.
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They had no idea exactly where they were or what they were about to see.
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We were told that we had been selected for various technical specialties.
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I was told that I was asked any questions that had to do with dynamic loads and nothing more than that I wouldn't be getting the answers to any other questions.
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It looked like two saucers I would call it, one on top of the other inverted, probably 25 to 30 feet in diameter.
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In terms of something known, what kind of metal would it look like?
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Well, it would look like a brushed aluminum. I'm sure it probably wasn't that. I say that because I noticed no scratch marks.
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And anything that would penetrate into the sand, 20 inches that way would certainly have some scratch marks.
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No signs of buckling fracture or anything?
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Not that I could see. I accepted it was probably some United States government vehicle highly classified vehicle.
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In fact, we were told that that's what it looks. Interestingly enough, one of the questions I need to know is what the mass of the vehicle looks like.
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I can tell a lot of things from the penetration into the desert sand and so forth, but I need to know the mass.
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And they told me that they weren't going to let me know that. They perhaps didn't even know themselves.
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There was also a tent, which I didn't get to look into, but one fellow who I did happen to talk with briefly until they told us to stop talking, said that he had seen two bodies inside this tent, two alien looking bodies.
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It was brown leathery skin that had a silver, like a cap on without a bill. Like a skull cap?
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Yes, like a skull cap.
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I realized what this really started to mean, but at also at the same time realized probably why the government was keeping the classified.
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There were a lot of things that could be changed by our culture and religions, where a lot of things that could be affected by the release of information like that at that particular time.
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