599 segments
What if you can give your name and sort of just sort of give a short bio of your military
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and government and consulting careers and sort of a resume sort of like this.
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Okay, my name is William John Pollock and I'm 56 years old. My background initially
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started in the Air Force in the mid-60s where I was a computer operations and
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programming specialist for first at Pope Air Force Base after training and then
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in Vietnam. The first event in my lifetime occurred then that woke me to a new
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paradigm. That paradigm was that late at night a young lady and I were in the
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woods in about 30 miles southeast of Fayetteville, North Carolina and had an
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unusual experience with a UFO at about 300 foot distance. The UFO prompted
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before it showed up to have all the frogs, the crickets and all those noise
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makers late at night showed up like a light switch and they'd appeared 20, 30
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seconds later and passed by us at about two, 300 feet on a line only 40, 50 feet
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away from us, heading from the southeast to a northwest direction about 11, 25
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at night. After disappeared over the northwest end of a small lake we were by,
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there was a continued period of silence from another 20 or 30 seconds and the
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frogs, crickets and all the other noise makers at night wound up turning back
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on like somebody again had thrown a light switch. That event was rather
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dramatic in my mind and that it prompted me to start questioning what was
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really going on in the world. This was a late night, clear night, sighting up close
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and it could not be mistaken for a helicopter or any other plane that I was
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aware of that the Air Force had back in 66. From that point on I went to
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Vietnam and spent a lovely year there in a tropical resort community if not
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trained and got to meet a lot of nice people, particularly the Vietnamese, but
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in my work we became very involved with processing and sending on to Washington
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intelligence data. This was in addition to our normal computer load of
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maintenance reports, payroll, etc. And in that situation it became quickly
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evident that we could have fought this war at a much higher level and much more
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efficiently than it was intended. It became obvious to all of us that it was a
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political war and not to be won. After that experience I left the military
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in spite of the fact that almost everybody in the computer science arena was
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asked to stay on. In fact the Air Force encourages by promising this four-year
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college degrees, fully paid officers, salary, well we're in, etc. But none of us
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stayed. Several years later I got back into using my computer knowledge when my
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first wife had passed away in 77 and I was asked to come and help get a firm to
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grow called Rusco Electronics. In the late 70s Rusco Electronics was the
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largest manufacturer and installer of access control equipment in the world.
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A friend of mine had asked me to help him because he wanted to leave the company
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and start his own company and I said yeah I'd love to. My wife had just died and I
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was looking for something new to do and it quickly became apparent that
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everybody in the security industry was back in the old relay days of
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philosophically and technologically and that the industry did not have very
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many people with computer expertise. What it quickly occurred in just a year or
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two is I went from doing corporate-level work in the Denver area which at the
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time was growing like a mushroom to doing military work, national work, and
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getting my security clearance back and activated again. This led to doing a lot
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of work for the State Department and eventually by 1980 realizing that the firm I
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was with was about ready to be left in the dust technologically. We tried
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internally to convince them to upgrade their technology and they would not and I
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started my own firm with two other engineers in Denver, one from Hughes who was
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based at the time at Buckley International Guard Base which is actually a
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primary site for a reception of satellite data for national security purposes
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and another friend from Lockheed. Well, it was Lockheed Martin today but it
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was Mark Marietta back in those days. We started the firm and developed within
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nine months the most powerful electronic security system available at the
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time. In fact, we prided ourselves on having a form of windows before
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McIntosh on our systems without any command codes. It's just plunge and click and
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move windows around. And we did a lot of work. We at one time were doing 17, 18
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major systems around the country. In fact, we did five alone for federal
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express and we'd link these systems into a war room type environment back at
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their headquarters in Memphis at the time called the Pony Farm. Through a satellite
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link, we were one of the first ones to link security sites systems at separate
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sites back through satellite linkages. We time all the plexed with their
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data going back and forth for the shipping. And this led to a lot of other
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projects and eventually even when that when I finally left that my own firm
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that we helped start in 84, I started working for Beltway Bandit type
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consulting firms. This would be SIC, Tracor, EGMG, etc. Either as a contractor
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for them or as an employee for a period of time. And was at this time again that
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I realized that there was something to miss during this period of time when I was
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developing security systems out of a national security interest in addition to
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large corporate systems. And I need to define a security system in this market
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place as something that is as complex as any web network today. And the
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systems would run from a half million to $25 million just for the hardware. The
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systems that we worked on were starting to be placed in areas that
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surprised me. There was one particular project when I was at EGMG where we
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were tasked for designing a system for a base that it amused me at the time.
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Nobody seemed to be aware of a Nevada called Tonipop base. East Southeast to
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the little old mining town of Tonipop. And that this base was actually where the
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F-117s were kept when they went operational. They were never kept at
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groom light. That was only for testing purposes. And that the entire wing was
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based there at the time. And our guys used to chuckle about the Revell model not
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being quite right. And what concerned me was that it's time there was a
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decision that we had to make on what was going on at Tonipop and that there was
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a lot of facilities deep underground there that we secured. And there were
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elevators that would go up and down very large elevators that could take
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craft much like the elevators on aircraft carrier. But in on a land-based
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environment and that these went very deep underground and that the equipment
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that we could see underground around was not that which would run a normal
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aircraft generators, air conditioners, etc. There was a totally different type of
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equipment. Now one of the things that interested me after I left that project
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several years later was that they finally announced the F-117. And one of the
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concerns I would have is what is being done with Tonipop now because they were
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moved in a rush, a very big rush. And I remember the number right. It was
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$75 million spent and only a nine-month period to prepare Holliman for the F-117
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teams. Now that's okay but why the rush to get them out of Tonipop was some of
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the facilities that are deep underground becoming activated on a full-time
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basis not just for testing purposes. And that they needed to remove those
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planes and those crews and support staff to Holliman and to prepare in a
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rather large rush for a new project to be brought in there. But none of the
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indications we had or my staff had that would actually install the security
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equipment had was that it was like any other plane. Even something as broad
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ranging as the Aurora that we have all heard about in to one degree or another.
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But I need to back up a bit. There is another subject I need to approach above
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and beyond the apology subject that I got involved with that relates to this
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when we talk about alternative government control mechanisms in that one of
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my favorite hobbies has always been tracking new technologies and hopefully so
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it benefits in business. And in 79 living in working in Denver I came across
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the company that if necessary I can provide documents for that I kept on
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file. The company in North Glan Colorado which is Northern sober group
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Denver was developing implantable chip originally for horses because there's a
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major was a major problem then and it may be still today of shilling of
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horses you would have two horses that look alike and you would put the dog in
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and you'd bet against them when everybody thinks it's the fast one or you'd
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reverse that and bet against them. And he was attempting through good faith to
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develop a technology to give a unique signature to every single horse. That
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pill if you want to call it that intelligent pill at the time was already small
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enough by then to implant under the skin with a horse needle a large hypodermic
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needle and I was shown these and they worked and we could read them with a
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primitive hand one type reader from about seven or eight feet away and this
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was still primitive technology. Excuse me now at the time in the security
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industry a lot of us had a lot of concerns about tracking and locating people
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that have been kidnapped particularly what was going on in Europe at the time
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where we were having NATO officers even the prime minister of Italy kidnapped and
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these people were drained or they were brutalized or both and one of the goals
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of the industry was to develop technology that would allow us to track these
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people or locate them quickly hopefully have saved their lives but on a secondary
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basis to keep from being drained of sensitive information and I brought this
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technology to a meeting in a skiff room in Virginia there was arranged by a
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friend of mine with the CIA and another friend of mine with State Department at
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the time to introduce this technology to what we felt at the time were the
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right parties to use this new technology responsibly now I hadn't heard about
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the remnant or any other religious beliefs at the time that said that
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everybody was going to be implanted with some sort of marking system law the beast
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or six six six I didn't I wasn't even aware of that stuff at the time and I was
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taking this as a serious solution to a potentially problem that a problem that
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would not go away and it was interesting we met in this room and because of the
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tight meetings we were involved with certain people would not introduce their
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give you their full name or where they came from I just had a trust that my two
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contacts had contacted the right parties to be there at the right time and
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that they would all be responsible individuals there was a mistake after that
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meeting I discovered the two of the people in the meeting had never been asked
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there yet they knew about the meeting they knew what it was about they knew
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who was going to be there and later research indicated that one of them actually
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worked with the Department of Agriculture and one of them worked with the
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Department of the Treasury what prompted are looking at these two men was that
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the way they asked the questions the questions they asked the attitude behind
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them even the body language indicated that they had reasons for the use of this
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technology other than the one that was intended at the meeting and in fact
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their largest concern was how fast could we make a couple billion of them and
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could we each get each one of those a unique identity number now this
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particular pill shaped device very minute had a lot of flexibility in its
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capabilities it was basically just a almost a transponder you would send a
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frequency to it and it would respond back with its unique number which could not
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be changed once the chip was made yet there were a lot of capabilities it could
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be added to this chip such as monitoring temperature blood pressure pulse and
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even waveforms out of the brain and but that was for research down the road what
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was amusing to me a few months ago on a website that likes to collect
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articles on the unusual is that a lady out east had a chip removed from her
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body in 1999 they had it blown up on the website and it was a slight
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modification of this chip from Denver with some of its enhancements and it was
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put in her she believes in that either 1980 or 1981 what was amusing about
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this was that this gentleman never had a worry about money again and he
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quietly passed on a lot of this technology to somebody we never knew and this
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concerned my contacts in Washington because that never went anywhere with them
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somebody else took it and ran with it and we never knew who it was now in 1984
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I found another technology by just sniffing the web sniffing the literature of
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our industry and a dozen other industries and I found that there was a professor
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at the University of New South Wales who where I still have the files on that
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had discovered a way to make a microscopic lithium niobate chip and by accident
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he had scratched it and he had a RF transmitter there and he had a receiver on
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by sheer chance and he found that on a certain frequency he could send an energy
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beam to the chip and it would respond back with a number he worked on that
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technology and that technology eventually I found out about we flew them in to
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Denver to our company system group of Colorado and we did a test he had
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some primitive small chips he brought with him they are totally passive and
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very small 30 second of an inch and only a couple thousand stick and by
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etching them you could again create a unique signature unique each one and
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this one theoretically could depend on the size of it and the size of the
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etching could have a unique number in the billions and billions in fact the
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test we did was amusing in that we set up a transmitter and a receiver based on
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removing a air grill from our drop ceiling and plugging up our transceiver into
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that is our antenna and we were able to read that thing glued to a little piece of
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plywood of cardboard from a hundred feet away with a piece of grill out of a
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drop ceiling which is a pretty primitive antenna because we didn't know what
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frequency was dealing with so we had to come up with some instant generic
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antenna we were so impressed with the capabilities of this it would read
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through thin layers of material like thin plywood and we were so impressed
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that again I felt that this was a technology that truly had some value
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because we also discovered in some testing that papers the papers were
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key had with them that if we had a microscopic coil antenna with this we could
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read this from a mile away and his later on analysis a few weeks later he got
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back to me and said that if we had an antenna a coil antenna two inches in
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diameter with a chip in the middle and that the what the antenna is actually doing
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is an amplifier to read extent and that what was sends back out as a
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harmonic of the original frequency that his numbers crunching showed that he
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could read this thing from 120 kilometers in space and that there were other
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attributes of this chip that could be tied into it especially if it was powered
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in some minute way and give it a lot more kick-a-poo juice well again I took
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this and a lot more care this time to a meeting that we had in Virginia at a
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subcontractor's company that I knew that it does a lot of work for the Intel
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community this time I had the director of the of security for all of state
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department there and again a good friend from CIA again we had at the last
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minute people walking the door with the right credentials who we didn't know
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who they were exactly it turns out again we had people to this time again who
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we after the meeting we realized shouldn't have been there and yet they had
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credentials that were awesome because it turns out afterwards I found out they
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had never been called by my two contacts yet they knew about our phone calls
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they knew of exactly what time what place and what we were going to be
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talking about and supposedly my phone calls were made over secure phone
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lines what concerned me more about this particular event was that I
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having my records again the name at the time of the head of security at
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State Department and I got to know him well because I designed the security
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system at least a major portion of it for main state or the headquarters and
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foggy bottom in DC and so he and I knew each other very well and that one of
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the things that Bob wanted to do was before he retired he wanted to have his
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family particularly his two boys in high school experience what it was like to
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live off out of the country so he actually gave himself the job he
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demoted himself the head of security for East Africa and he they he and his
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family shortly after this event this meeting moved to Kenya to Nairobi and he
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and I quietly kept in touch through our other contact in Washington and kept
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probing who these two men were we were having a devil of a time fine and who
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they were who they really were because what bothered me was that the professor
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all of a sudden got a giant grant the technology was transferred he never had
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to work again the rest of his life and a friend of mine in San Francisco who I
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had quietly told about this technology because he was involved with other
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aspects of national security and tracking people he got a project to do a
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physical security system access control cameras intrusion monitoring everything
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the works for a little company in Silicon Valley and he said it was
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eerie to him but what they were making there looked he eerily like what I
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described to him he built the security system in this modern fab building
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billions his little chips he wound up a year later being asked if he'd want to
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buy the security system back they were shutting the factory down after they'd
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made billions and billions his little chips and it was a division of a rather
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major European electronics firm that had the plant and what concern me was that
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they had built these chips and who knows what happened to them and they built
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them in the billions in volume because they're so small that you can take a
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six inch wafer and make hundreds of thousands of them on a wafer and they've
[0:22:14 - 0:22:21] ▶
disappeared somewhere but in the process what concerned me more was Bob did
[0:22:21 - 0:22:27] ▶
not give up trying to find out who these guys were and who they worked for what
[0:22:27 - 0:22:31] ▶
their agendas were he and I had had long talks of now by mid-80s about what was
[0:22:31 - 0:22:36] ▶
really going on in government who was controlling what what concerns he had
[0:22:36 - 0:22:41] ▶
because he had come to the realization there were a lot of things going on
[0:22:41 - 0:22:45] ▶
that weren't right and he had supposedly made some contacts to find out more
[0:22:45 - 0:22:51] ▶
of what was going on and he had contacted our mutual friend at CIA another
[0:22:51 - 0:22:56] ▶
country long-term contractor been involved since World War II and the very
[0:22:56 - 0:23:00] ▶
founding of the CIA who got in touch with me and said Bob's got something hot
[0:23:00 - 0:23:06] ▶
and he's back in the country again on business we're gonna get a meeting a few
[0:23:06 - 0:23:11] ▶
days later Bob was on his way to work just after dropping the two boys off at a
[0:23:11 - 0:23:15] ▶
private high school I believe in Nairobi he was on the way to the embassy and he
[0:23:15 - 0:23:21] ▶
was broad-sighted at a stoplight at 60 miles now or by a reinforced land rover
[0:23:21 - 0:23:25] ▶
he was killed instantly the Brit that supposedly was drunk at six in the
[0:23:25 - 0:23:31] ▶
morning seven in the morning was taking the hospital immediately disappears and
[0:23:31 - 0:23:36] ▶
all the evidence he had given in the way of documentation was proven to be
[0:23:36 - 0:23:40] ▶
phony as to who he was and Bob was killed and it was a hit and it's always
[0:23:40 - 0:23:45] ▶
concerned me today that he had gotten a little too close to who had been involved
[0:23:45 - 0:23:48] ▶
with this implantable chip technology we've been trying to for a couple of
[0:23:48 - 0:23:53] ▶
years then quietly trying to find out who had been doing it without our
[0:23:53 - 0:23:58] ▶
government realizing it was going on they got whoever it is has got total
[0:23:58 - 0:24:02] ▶
ability to penetrate anytime anywhere our government and locate what is going
[0:24:02 - 0:24:09] ▶
on instantly research since the early eighties on my own and with some
[0:24:09 - 0:24:17] ▶
friends indicates that we have at least four power groups in the world they
[0:24:17 - 0:24:22] ▶
have wealth beyond all imagination they have advanced technologies they have
[0:24:22 - 0:24:27] ▶
taken over various programs particularly black programs within our government
[0:24:27 - 0:24:32] ▶
and probably even the Russian government and the Chinese their politics to
[0:24:32 - 0:24:37] ▶
them as we know it is not the same and they have a gen is totally unlike what
[0:24:37 - 0:24:43] ▶
our governments we perceive our governments agenda's really are and that they
[0:24:43 - 0:24:48] ▶
are able to track unbelievably what's going on around them at a minute level
[0:24:48 - 0:24:55] ▶
and who these people are we are my friends and I have given them names but
[0:24:55 - 0:25:00] ▶
they they have no relevance to what they're recall themselves we just
[0:25:00 - 0:25:05] ▶
simply call them the four horsemen and that these horsemen work together
[0:25:05 - 0:25:10] ▶
and at times and they work against each other at times there's an ongoing
[0:25:10 - 0:25:13] ▶
battle between them at a low level to who's going to be top dog in the world
[0:25:13 - 0:25:19] ▶
the one commonality to all four appears to be an absolute desire for control
[0:25:19 - 0:25:24] ▶
of everything and everything and that they some of them have different bases
[0:25:24 - 0:25:31] ▶
for this from the point of view of it each from has their own philosophy and
[0:25:31 - 0:25:37] ▶
that core root philosophy guides them supposedly in their actions and we
[0:25:37 - 0:25:44] ▶
believe that this is what was causing a lot of strange things to happen in
[0:25:44 - 0:25:49] ▶
Nevada that we were experiencing and in a strange way correlates also with
[0:25:49 - 0:25:55] ▶
what happened with these implantable chip technologies that I personally
[0:25:55 - 0:25:58] ▶
brought now I look at it to the wrong people in the government because we
[0:25:58 - 0:26:04] ▶
never got to use that technologies for what it was we really intended it to be
[0:26:04 - 0:26:08] ▶
used for what do you think these two men who came to the meeting what
[0:26:08 - 0:26:12] ▶
credentials did they show to get in and what what did they have or the FBI or
[0:26:12 - 0:26:16] ▶
what they above and beyond that they were NSA and RO that sort of credentials
[0:26:16 - 0:26:22] ▶
that we would later check and they didn't exist they did not exist yet their
[0:26:22 - 0:26:31] ▶
credentials were spotless even to the point where if it was an access control
[0:26:31 - 0:26:36] ▶
requirement the identification systems that they carried passed all the
[0:26:36 - 0:26:44] ▶
access control mechanism requirements we had be it biometric be it fingerprint be
[0:26:44 - 0:26:50] ▶
it eyeball be it anything even to access code numbers they knew it all they had
[0:26:50 - 0:26:56] ▶
it all and it was better quality than actually what the agencies had which is
[0:26:56 - 0:27:02] ▶
most enlightening means unlimited budgets do you think these were in a sense
[0:27:02 - 0:27:08] ▶
privatized operations that international corporate or institutional that entities
[0:27:08 - 0:27:15] ▶
if they are it's at a level way beyond any of the corporate security people I've
[0:27:15 - 0:27:21] ▶
ever worked with and I've worked with all the major oil companies I've worked
[0:27:21 - 0:27:25] ▶
with all the major computer companies on designing very high- very high-end
[0:27:25 - 0:27:29] ▶
security systems and none of the people in the commercial arena there ever gave
[0:27:29 - 0:27:38] ▶
me the least concern that they were involved with something above and beyond what
[0:27:38 - 0:27:42] ▶
their corporate requirements were or agendas were they were truly corporate
[0:27:42 - 0:27:49] ▶
people now if there are corporate people out there that are hiring private
[0:27:49 - 0:27:55] ▶
people outside the corporate chain of command to do specific functions I would
[0:27:55 - 0:28:01] ▶
not have known about that the one area that I will say that is strange and
[0:28:01 - 0:28:05] ▶
that is the aerospace industry in this country and that I did a lot of work for
[0:28:05 - 0:28:11] ▶
several the aerospace companies either in the way a physical design of systems or
[0:28:11 - 0:28:16] ▶
in the least consulting and there were times when I came across people that
[0:28:16 - 0:28:21] ▶
seemed to know a lot more than they did and some of them are very good at
[0:28:21 - 0:28:25] ▶
controlling their body language but not perfectly and we would run across various
[0:28:25 - 0:28:31] ▶
companies particularly those in California and in the Denver area that had
[0:28:31 - 0:28:36] ▶
projects ongoing that they were doing security work for that was beyond black
[0:28:36 - 0:28:41] ▶
and I've been involved with those obliquely so I can tell the difference but
[0:28:41 - 0:28:46] ▶
certain comments from me over a long period of time and you bring them all
[0:28:46 - 0:28:50] ▶
those comments together that on on their face one comment doesn't mean anything
[0:28:50 - 0:28:55] ▶
but four five or ten comments over a four five year period start creating a
[0:28:55 - 0:29:00] ▶
storyline for you and the storyline basically is that there's a lot of work
[0:29:00 - 0:29:04] ▶
going on in the aerospace industry that would indicate that we have black
[0:29:04 - 0:29:11] ▶
projects that have gone even darker and that there's work being done on
[0:29:11 - 0:29:17] ▶
electro-grabbitic on scalar technology etc. that we don't even think that those
[0:29:17 - 0:29:26] ▶
in Congress or even in the military that approved black budgets are aware of
[0:29:26 - 0:29:30] ▶
they've been taken off line they're funded through some other mechanism other
[0:29:30 - 0:29:37] ▶
than in one case I know of one black project that got billions of extra money
[0:29:37 - 0:29:43] ▶
back in the eighties and I was quietly told that it never went over budget by
[0:29:43 - 0:29:48] ▶
more than a million and there were billions of money funneled through that
[0:29:48 - 0:29:51] ▶
black project onto something else and they gentlemen admitted it to me
[0:29:51 - 0:29:56] ▶
which corporations that was Northrop that was Northrop at plant 29
[0:29:56 - 0:30:03] ▶
the but when you look at this scenario of the entire series of events it starts
[0:30:03 - 0:30:10] ▶
forcing you to take your head out of the sandbox and put your sunglasses on at
[0:30:10 - 0:30:16] ▶
least so you can look at the bright sun and find out what reality is all about
[0:30:16 - 0:30:20] ▶
and to a great extent because of what I was involved with and the knowledge from
[0:30:20 - 0:30:24] ▶
85 that the Cold War was going to wind down as we know it back then it's just
[0:30:24 - 0:30:29] ▶
mutated into a new type war that I had to prepare to get myself plan to get
[0:30:29 - 0:30:34] ▶
myself out of the business because budgets by the late eighties we all assumed
[0:30:34 - 0:30:38] ▶
in the industry were going to start drying up and so during the late eighties I
[0:30:38 - 0:30:43] ▶
wound up just doing consulting work for SAIC for Tracoor for ED a several of the
[0:30:43 - 0:30:54] ▶
thought-way bandits and slowly got myself out of the business and got into
[0:30:54 - 0:30:59] ▶
the consumer arena and believe it or not started a cable company in 89 in New
[0:30:59 - 0:31:04] ▶
Mexico. Tell me a little bit more about you know the way that you see the for
[0:31:04 - 0:31:10] ▶
example these people that appeared at the meeting and people who work up that
[0:31:10 - 0:31:13] ▶
level do you see them as being responsive to the president or the chain of
[0:31:13 - 0:31:19] ▶
command it's the American public thinks of it talk about a little bit if you can
[0:31:19 - 0:31:23] ▶
about what you found about how the game is really played and who's in the
[0:31:23 - 0:31:28] ▶
loop and in control who isn't. Okay Steve you brought up a good question about
[0:31:28 - 0:31:34] ▶
who what's the mentality what's the attitude of these people that I would run into
[0:31:34 - 0:31:39] ▶
periodically that seem to be out of the loop they're not in the chain of command
[0:31:39 - 0:31:44] ▶
their attitude is that they look act and taste like bureaucrats and having
[0:31:44 - 0:31:51] ▶
been around them for 27 years they have their own unique flavor but these
[0:31:51 - 0:31:57] ▶
people had agendas they're unlike any agenda is that you would ever have run
[0:31:57 - 0:32:02] ▶
into if you're in the mainstream government an example would be that in the
[0:32:02 - 0:32:08] ▶
early eighties we worked on a project the Department of Agriculture and the
[0:32:08 - 0:32:12] ▶
state of Maryland for a period of time to try and convince them to get away from
[0:32:12 - 0:32:16] ▶
food stamps and let's go to a credit card machine that's coupled to the cash
[0:32:16 - 0:32:20] ▶
register that would be an ID card simple swipe card or some other higher
[0:32:20 - 0:32:27] ▶
level of access control card if needed with a keypad pin number would be
[0:32:27 - 0:32:33] ▶
implanted onto the keypad so that the person could only that person could get
[0:32:33 - 0:32:37] ▶
food off their food stamps because at the time and I believe even today there's
[0:32:37 - 0:32:43] ▶
a huge percentage of fraud perpetuated in the foodstab marina to the tune of
[0:32:43 - 0:32:49] ▶
billions a year and so we got to meet an awful lot of guys at a high level in
[0:32:49 - 0:32:54] ▶
the Department of Agriculture that are in control of this program and they are
[0:32:54 - 0:33:00] ▶
familiar with access control equipment particularly after we got done
[0:33:00 - 0:33:03] ▶
educating them and the limitations and the capabilities of that technology to
[0:33:03 - 0:33:08] ▶
aid them in saving the public billions of dollars a year that project went
[0:33:08 - 0:33:15] ▶
nowhere the politics at the time were such that they didn't want to solve the
[0:33:15 - 0:33:20] ▶
problem in fact you'd wonder in the big cities where a lot of the members of
[0:33:20 - 0:33:24] ▶
various committees are from if they weren't getting a kickback at times but so
[0:33:24 - 0:33:30] ▶
we had a lot of interface with people in the Department of Educate of
[0:33:30 - 0:33:34] ▶
Agriculture is an example yet the one we met at that meeting from the Department
[0:33:34 - 0:33:40] ▶
of Agriculture had a level of knowledge far beyond what these people had and he
[0:33:40 - 0:33:45] ▶
had a different attitude it was a attitude that was almost apolitical and it
[0:33:45 - 0:33:51] ▶
was pure technical and it was very cold and the questions that would be asked
[0:33:51 - 0:33:57] ▶
was how fast can you make them how fast can you set up a factory to make them how
[0:33:57 - 0:34:02] ▶
many can you make in a period of time how reliable will they be are they
[0:34:02 - 0:34:06] ▶
raceable are there any negative aspects of them and when they're implanted in
[0:34:06 - 0:34:14] ▶
the human body will the body reject them etc these are questions that
[0:34:14 - 0:34:19] ▶
interesting enough know the bureaucrats ever asked they assume that we would
[0:34:19 - 0:34:24] ▶
have a contract to solve those problems or overcome them what do you think
[0:34:24 - 0:34:29] ▶
being done with these end plans I think they've been distributed I have
[0:34:29 - 0:34:33] ▶
indications in the military that a lot of our special forces units have been
[0:34:33 - 0:34:38] ▶
implanted over the last 10 years if not longer now and that there are other
[0:34:38 - 0:34:44] ▶
people that have implanted such as I mentioned earlier that we had that lady
[0:34:44 - 0:34:48] ▶
that had one removed because it was irritating and she had her surgeon
[0:34:48 - 0:34:52] ▶
remove it and it turned out to be very similar to the technology from 1979
[0:34:52 - 0:34:57] ▶
that I had brought to Washington out of Denver how did she get it this year we call
[0:34:57 - 0:35:01] ▶
how did she she doesn't remember she doesn't remember she remembers almost as in an alien
[0:35:01 - 0:35:08] ▶
abduction scenario she misses remembers vaguely some missing time back then but I don't know the
[0:35:08 - 0:35:14] ▶
whole story of that we could do some research on that Steve and go back to that web posting
[0:35:14 - 0:35:19] ▶
and backtrack from there to who she is and who her doctor was and find out more
[0:35:19 - 0:35:24] ▶
going back you were talking about this ton of hop yes they moved that one 17's out what do you
[0:35:25 - 0:35:33] ▶
think is there what what was being worked on and what what's there well we had a base that was
[0:35:33 - 0:35:38] ▶
very modern and we had a base that was literally state of the art equipment along mixed in with
[0:35:38 - 0:35:45] ▶
the old stuff because the Air Force doesn't throw anything away but doesn't have to they know how
[0:35:45 - 0:35:50] ▶
to squib rub nickels together they've had to but the importance of that base can never be minimized
[0:35:50 - 0:35:58] ▶
it is very remote it is between the two low mountain ranges so from a land-based positioning
[0:35:59 - 0:36:07] ▶
you cannot see into it actually it's more remote than until recently than what was going on at
[0:36:07 - 0:36:13] ▶
Area 51 where at least the the uphologist could go up there in some mountain top and look at it
[0:36:13 - 0:36:20] ▶
from 10 or 15 miles away this one literally cannot be looked at from any direction where you didn't
[0:36:20 - 0:36:26] ▶
where you weren't trespassing on federal property at Nellis range in fact the the concern for
[0:36:26 - 0:36:33] ▶
security in the mid 80s was so severe there that one of the generals that I dealt with through
[0:36:33 - 0:36:43] ▶
EG and G asked me what's the wildest idea I could dream of for doing a perimeter security monitoring
[0:36:43 - 0:36:51] ▶
system that could look out 10 and 15 miles without fail pickup and intruder and it was a funny one
[0:36:51 - 0:36:59] ▶
because I came up with a synthetic boulder that had a self-powering system in it where we had
[0:36:59 - 0:37:05] ▶
special cameras hooked to telescopes where literally could monitor a jackrabbit at 10 kilometers
[0:37:05 - 0:37:13] ▶
in a moonless night and reliably catch them in the camera and they actually take a picture of
[0:37:14 - 0:37:20] ▶
monitor and that was tied in with even some suggestions of how to have harmless roving
[0:37:21 - 0:37:27] ▶
guards out there on horseback but they would actually work for another department of the government
[0:37:27 - 0:37:32] ▶
and this was these suggestions were taken very seriously and when you comes to the point of
[0:37:32 - 0:37:40] ▶
creating artificial boulders and taking a suggestion like that very seriously with a lot of very
[0:37:40 - 0:37:46] ▶
complex electronics putting these boulders and the boulders of course placed on strategic cliffs
[0:37:46 - 0:37:52] ▶
up on the hills looking outwards away from the base and then linking them by underground fiber
[0:37:52 - 0:37:58] ▶
or by microwave hidden microwave transmitters back to a war room at the base you do not spend that type
[0:37:59 - 0:38:07] ▶
of money on that type of technology unless you're currently in a long-term program there
[0:38:07 - 0:38:13] ▶
this the military does not waste money like that in spite of the $65,000 toilet seats
[0:38:14 - 0:38:19] ▶
did you get indications then that this and other facilities had UFO related hardware projects
[0:38:21 - 0:38:28] ▶
the indication was that what was in these underground facilities prior to the staff that I would
[0:38:29 - 0:38:34] ▶
have sent in from due to do the work they would remove it there was indications from you can
[0:38:34 - 0:38:40] ▶
look at scuff marks on the floor you can look a lot of wear usage is on equipment that there was
[0:38:40 - 0:38:46] ▶
equipment in these facilities and they had removed it from my men to go in and do the work
[0:38:46 - 0:38:50] ▶
and eGNG has a history of deep knowledge and control of everything in southern Nevada
[0:38:51 - 0:39:00] ▶
it's it's common knowledge they used to control and still monitor the test site itself
[0:39:01 - 0:39:08] ▶
they also have the own the contract airline that takes the employees every morning brings them
[0:39:09 - 0:39:15] ▶
back every night to propose to area 51 and to Tonipa so it's not an unusual environment we're
[0:39:15 - 0:39:23] ▶
dealing with here we can almost call that eGNG's backyard and the history of the company was from
[0:39:23 - 0:39:31] ▶
the nuclear testing phases during World War II and the initial testing afterwards it was a science
[0:39:31 - 0:39:38] ▶
company meant to do work for the government offline away from FOIAs which is the one of the greatest
[0:39:38 - 0:39:47] ▶
concerns I have is that if we really want to find out what's going on out there legitimately or
[0:39:47 - 0:39:53] ▶
illegitimately in the black project arena we need to modify if we can get it through Congress
[0:39:53 - 0:39:58] ▶
in the president we need to modify the FOIA regulations to have no loopholes and to require that all
[0:39:58 - 0:40:06] ▶
government contractors even black are required to submit information through the FOIA system
[0:40:07 - 0:40:13] ▶
because right now it is a it's a it's a sip it's a giant back door for them to purposely ignore
[0:40:13 - 0:40:19] ▶
the requests of either Congress or the public what do you say to people who contend and I encounter
[0:40:19 - 0:40:26] ▶
this a great deal in scientific and media circles that we can't keep secrets like this that if
[0:40:26 - 0:40:33] ▶
there is anything to these electro-revident craft and UFOs that everyone would know about it the
[0:40:33 - 0:40:39] ▶
secrets simply have not been able to be maintained and aren't maintained anymore. The ability of our
[0:40:39 - 0:40:44] ▶
government to keep secrets is actually has a long history of being very valid there's a lot of
[0:40:44 - 0:40:50] ▶
programs that were successfully kept quiet for decades if not close to half a century and during
[0:40:50 - 0:40:58] ▶
the last ten years we've seen a lot of announcements of programs that were kept very secret by our
[0:40:58 - 0:41:04] ▶
government. Example is the the syphilis study and I believe it was Alabama back in the 30s nobody
[0:41:04 - 0:41:14] ▶
knew what really went on until the I think was the late 80s early 90s when that program is released
[0:41:14 - 0:41:21] ▶
and the fact that the Japanese had a biological warfare detachment working in Mongolia
[0:41:22 - 0:41:28] ▶
who we agreed not to punish even though they killed thousands hundreds of our own soldiers
[0:41:29 - 0:41:35] ▶
there were POWs simply so we could get our hands on the records the results of their testing
[0:41:35 - 0:41:42] ▶
that program wasn't released and I believe the full story of that didn't come out to the 90s
[0:41:42 - 0:41:47] ▶
early 90s so that's a close to a 50 year period where they kept that large project secret
[0:41:47 - 0:41:54] ▶
and we're able to continue the research at Fort Dietrich and other places on a biological
[0:41:55 - 0:42:01] ▶
experimentation on our own people so the ability of our government to keep secrets
[0:42:01 - 0:42:07] ▶
if the people truly believe in what they're working on is it possible in fact more than possible
[0:42:09 - 0:42:15] ▶
they can generally succeed what concerns me is when the projects go beyond black
[0:42:15 - 0:42:20] ▶
and that we have pillar with people with ulterior motives that have gotten in control of these
[0:42:21 - 0:42:27] ▶
projects and or the funding for them and or the ability of what really is scary is to write their
[0:42:27 - 0:42:33] ▶
own checks unlimited checks with no recourse to anybody they're not even on a budget item anymore
[0:42:33 - 0:42:39] ▶
they literally authorize the treasure to cut them checks and this is where we need to have an
[0:42:40 - 0:42:46] ▶
audit if you want to call it that made on all these projects and the responsible committees
[0:42:46 - 0:42:52] ▶
start monitoring the flow of black money do you think this is just restricted to the US or do you see
[0:42:52 - 0:42:57] ▶
that it has international scope oh I would say this is international in scope the projects that we have
[0:42:58 - 0:43:06] ▶
are closely tied in with other allies governments in fact I had been told back in the late 70s on one
[0:43:06 - 0:43:14] ▶
of the early classified projects I worked on once I got my security clearance back was that
[0:43:14 - 0:43:21] ▶
there is a secret agreement between us and the Brits though whatever we invent they get whatever
[0:43:21 - 0:43:27] ▶
they invent we get and there is no limitation as what it is if our boomers look like whatever they
[0:43:27 - 0:43:35] ▶
look like the the Brits can make them duplicates and we don't hold back on any of the technology because
[0:43:35 - 0:43:41] ▶
of that secret agreement that was cut during World War Two and we have other allies like that
[0:43:41 - 0:43:46] ▶
and I believe that what we also see is we see a lot of cross-pollination of scientists from
[0:43:47 - 0:43:52] ▶
different countries working on projects even in the most classified arenas in the United States
[0:43:52 - 0:43:59] ▶
I ran into these people repeatedly the group that is running a lot of covert projects what do you
[0:43:59 - 0:44:13] ▶
see as the agenda and what agenda are operating what what have you come across by piecing together
[0:44:13 - 0:44:19] ▶
some of these experiences you had as a consultant in security and I believe my I would believe
[0:44:19 - 0:44:25] ▶
Steve that my initial view on what the the agendas were behind various black projects back in the
[0:44:25 - 0:44:34] ▶
70s and early 80s when I first became really aware what was going on above and beyond my own political
[0:44:34 - 0:44:41] ▶
attitudes on how the really world really turned was one of still of a good basis they were looking to
[0:44:41 - 0:44:48] ▶
defend the United States they were looking to protect the free world but if you get into the
[0:44:48 - 0:44:55] ▶
situation more and more it becomes evident that they have a genus that are independent of the
[0:44:55 - 0:45:01] ▶
the goals of the United States and that the attitudes seem to be one of control power and control
[0:45:02 - 0:45:12] ▶
and it's in it it's I guess you could call that almost the second oldest profession in the world
[0:45:13 - 0:45:18] ▶
do you you mentioned this dreadful incident in Nairobi with the man that was yes
[0:45:19 - 0:45:25] ▶
apparently killed do you have you seen other evidence of lethal force being used to maintain secrecy
[0:45:25 - 0:45:31] ▶
on not as close as that of it but do you think it has been used oh yes absolutely we're
[0:45:31 - 0:45:38] ▶
necessary it's used oh you didn't incorporate my question in your answer so the ability of certain
[0:45:38 - 0:45:46] ▶
forces out there Steve to use force when absolutely necessary or other controlling mechanisms
[0:45:46 - 0:45:53] ▶
to ameliorate the danger of a leak to control those or maintain secrecy or fear is always there
[0:45:54 - 0:46:06] ▶
what happened to Bob in in Nairobi is a situation where I felt that they decided that he was
[0:46:07 - 0:46:14] ▶
getting too close and he wasn't afraid and he was too powerful and they had to take him out and they
[0:46:14 - 0:46:21] ▶
take him out in a normal way not unlike the strange events with the representative shift here in
[0:46:21 - 0:46:28] ▶
New Mexico who almost never went in the sun because he was living indoors just about all his life as
[0:46:28 - 0:46:33] ▶
representative in congress and yet he magically got an aggressive cancer there are ways to
[0:46:33 - 0:46:42] ▶
to attack that problem I've talked to some people that were previously seals who went on some
[0:46:42 - 0:46:48] ▶
rather strange missions and I've talked to some merks because we run across those types once in a
[0:46:48 - 0:46:54] ▶
while who have been assigned or tasked with taking out people or affecting situations in such a
[0:46:54 - 0:47:03] ▶
way that they're using it as a control mechanism and these people because they are duty bound
[0:47:03 - 0:47:11] ▶
will literally take orders and do whatever they're told that good Nazi philosophy
[0:47:12 - 0:47:17] ▶
that's right so do you think that for example biological problems such as cancer could be
[0:47:20 - 0:47:26] ▶
induced or used to intimidate or to take someone out of the picture
[0:47:27 - 0:47:34] ▶
one of the Steve one of the problems you have in that arena is that it's kept very close to the
[0:47:35 - 0:47:40] ▶
vest and when somebody that's only on the periphery is looking at those control factors used to
[0:47:40 - 0:47:47] ▶
manipulate people you get the flavor of it I have not been close enough to actually taste it I don't
[0:47:47 - 0:47:55] ▶
know if I want to but what you have to look at is the psychological factors involved that if they
[0:47:55 - 0:48:02] ▶
can do one whole high profile hit on somebody in a specific way what it does it puts the fear of
[0:48:02 - 0:48:12] ▶
God into those that they want to continue to control so that they don't say anything out of tune
[0:48:12 - 0:48:19] ▶
they don't probe where they shouldn't probe like Senator Schiff was doing congressman Schiff was
[0:48:20 - 0:48:24] ▶
doing we've seen in the last ten years or ramping up though if one does even the most cursory
[0:48:24 - 0:48:32] ▶
research one of the ones that concerned me the most was the death of our commerce secretary several
[0:48:32 - 0:48:42] ▶
years ago on a mountaintop in Yugoslavia where the hostess the Air Force hostess on the plane
[0:48:42 - 0:48:49] ▶
survived as she was sitting on the jumpsuit in the back and a certain British group went in there
[0:48:49 - 0:48:55] ▶
first and she was alive and healthy when she left the mountain and she got down to the airport she
[0:48:55 - 0:49:00] ▶
was dead and she only had minor bruises and so many needs to look into the influence that certain
[0:49:00 - 0:49:09] ▶
British commando units have and their cross-pollination with other groups like them in the United States
[0:49:09 - 0:49:14] ▶
but what was even stranger was that his body made it back to dover air force base Senator Brown
[0:49:15 - 0:49:22] ▶
uh I'm sorry secretary Brown and they discovered that there was a bullet wound in the top of the
[0:49:22 - 0:49:30] ▶
head that bought the diameter of a 45 and that a preliminary x-ray indicated that there were
[0:49:30 - 0:49:35] ▶
shavings of some sort inside the the brain itself and that yet he was raced out of that or into a
[0:49:35 - 0:49:43] ▶
crematorium literally within a day so nobody could do an autoseries autopsie and the people at
[0:49:43 - 0:49:48] ▶
dover in the air force base there were severely chastised for even doing what they did voluntarily
[0:49:48 - 0:49:54] ▶
but in the profession there is a way of doing this with frozen CO2 bullets or nitrogen bullets
[0:49:55 - 0:50:03] ▶
and the there is no residue left except what the shattered pieces of the skull cavity
[0:50:04 - 0:50:09] ▶
and this is of grave concern to a lot of us because this seems to be an ongoing process particularly
[0:50:10 - 0:50:16] ▶
in the last 10 years it's become very blatant across the entire spectrum of our government
[0:50:16 - 0:50:21] ▶
nationally and internationally and I think we all can just follow the web tracks these days
[0:50:21 - 0:50:28] ▶
is to where this the implications are for that and the needs for continuing control are getting
[0:50:29 - 0:50:34] ▶
more severe and the use of these mechanisms becoming ever more blatant
[0:50:34 - 0:50:39] ▶
what do you think this is headed I mean what do you your concerns that were were headed my concerns are
[0:50:41 - 0:50:48] ▶
for the freedom of our country and of the free world it sounds rather simplistic
[0:50:48 - 0:50:53] ▶
but we have to have a philosophy upon which we base our lives and my philosophy is that the
[0:50:55 - 0:51:01] ▶
republican form of government if we can get back to it in some way shape or form is the strongest
[0:51:01 - 0:51:07] ▶
form of government ever developed by men by basically allowing one event to occur and that is
[0:51:07 - 0:51:14] ▶
that we allow everybody to become a sovereign individual it's been proven in the last 200 some
[0:51:14 - 0:51:20] ▶
years particularly from the technological development we've experienced since the founding of this
[0:51:20 - 0:51:25] ▶
country the Trogritic stand has been focused first in the United States that is the most motivating
[0:51:25 - 0:51:33] ▶
type of mechanism we can possibly have for our species to advance and yet there's seem to be
[0:51:33 - 0:51:39] ▶
counter-vailing forces trying to stop it and if we don't find ways to neutralize these negative
[0:51:39 - 0:51:46] ▶
forces we're going to find our lifestyles our concepts of life as a species nullified
[0:51:46 - 0:51:53] ▶
you've mentioned over the course of the interview a few part which issues do you think are
[0:51:56 - 0:52:00] ▶
heavily involved in this whole effort agencies and corporations if Steve if you look at
[0:52:01 - 0:52:09] ▶
what layers of influence we have here either at government or corporate level I would say that
[0:52:10 - 0:52:17] ▶
at the corporate level we have to look primarily first if you're talking about
[0:52:17 - 0:52:21] ▶
new propulsion technologies we would first only look to the aerospace industry I've had deep
[0:52:22 - 0:52:32] ▶
discussions with some people over a long period of time who either they or their fathers had worked
[0:52:32 - 0:52:39] ▶
for various aerospace companies and had been directly involved with the research as far back as
[0:52:39 - 0:52:45] ▶
the early 50s on into the 60s and then by the 70s they felt they had overcome most of the problems
[0:52:45 - 0:52:51] ▶
in reverse engineering technologies from what interested enough they'd never call UFOs but they call
[0:52:52 - 0:52:57] ▶
ABCs alien visitation craft that means they know who they are it's just a question is what's the color
[0:52:57 - 0:53:06] ▶
their skin if you want to use a generic term but that these firms and you can name them they're all
[0:53:06 - 0:53:14] ▶
the top five in the nation they're all involved in it in one degree or another and they have
[0:53:14 - 0:53:20] ▶
their black within black in fact I wouldn't be surprised if we don't find another few years that
[0:53:20 - 0:53:24] ▶
a lot of these firms have company divisions that are even darker than the skunk works and that
[0:53:25 - 0:53:32] ▶
that one was almost a front for primary work in deeper divisions and we have other divisions of
[0:53:32 - 0:53:40] ▶
the government there was so much in the way of how long did the NRO run before anybody even knew
[0:53:40 - 0:53:46] ▶
they are operational and then we get to the point where they're building their own headquarters
[0:53:46 - 0:53:51] ▶
in Virginia for almost $800 million I believe and nobody even knew they were spending the money on
[0:53:51 - 0:53:56] ▶
their new giant headquarters which would have actually been larger almost than the headquarters for
[0:53:56 - 0:54:01] ▶
the CIA so we have a situation here where somebody is not doing due diligence at the public level
[0:54:01 - 0:54:10] ▶
and at the government level and monitoring what's going on you know would you invest in a company
[0:54:10 - 0:54:16] ▶
without researching it properly to see if your investment is well placed well we have people in
[0:54:16 - 0:54:22] ▶
the public and in our government that are simply not doing due diligence and upholding their oath
[0:54:22 - 0:54:30] ▶
of office for finding out what's really going on with our own government well what then that brings
[0:54:30 - 0:54:37] ▶
another question what about the fourth estate and the media you would think that they would want to
[0:54:37 - 0:54:42] ▶
indicate these issues seriously instead of just ridiculing them.
[0:54:42 - 0:54:45] ▶
The subject Steve of the media from my viewpoint only it's a personal viewpoint
[0:54:48 - 0:54:52] ▶
because I'm not intimately involved with the media on a day-to-day basis like some of the other
[0:54:53 - 0:54:57] ▶
people you've interviewed as one of having been into a degree and looking at the outside
[0:54:57 - 0:55:03] ▶
and seeing it as a total manipulative process with the media they have their own agenda it's very
[0:55:04 - 0:55:10] ▶
liberal we know which way they would generally vote if you did a gallop pole on the media
[0:55:10 - 0:55:16] ▶
we have an alternate media that is much closer to the truth particularly on the web these days
[0:55:17 - 0:55:23] ▶
but as purposely ignored anything of a serious nature is laughed at or neutralized as much as
[0:55:23 - 0:55:31] ▶
possible. The perfect example is the recent elections in this year of ours 2000 where we have
[0:55:31 - 0:55:39] ▶
legitimately four or five people running for president and they would never even have the debates
[0:55:39 - 0:55:45] ▶
cover other than the main two largest parties that's a control mechanism that's rather blatant
[0:55:45 - 0:55:49] ▶
if the people were really given a fair shake as to what's going on we would have had all of the
[0:55:50 - 0:55:55] ▶
presidential contenders at each of those events on TV I believe they were three of them
[0:55:55 - 0:56:03] ▶
and we would have equal time in the newspapers and in time in the weekly news journals
[0:56:04 - 0:56:09] ▶
so from the most mundane to the obvious in obvious it's obvious that the media has manipulated heavily
[0:56:10 - 0:56:17] ▶
and I would hate to be a White House correspondent and say something against the president and
[0:56:18 - 0:56:23] ▶
find the next week my credentials are unique so you just have that happen once and everybody there
[0:56:23 - 0:56:29] ▶
knows the limits to which they can go but this is now happening throughout our system not just
[0:56:29 - 0:56:35] ▶
in the government and corporate reporting to CNBC as a prime example of only saying nice things
[0:56:35 - 0:56:41] ▶
about corporations to keep their stock out and hence keep the cash flow going into the advertising
[0:56:41 - 0:56:46] ▶
dollars going to CNBC it's a bottom line problem. What do you I want to ask a question about this
[0:56:46 - 0:56:54] ▶
then their Pope Air Force Base went back to the first scene. Yes. How large and what shape does this object?
[0:56:54 - 0:57:01] ▶
The object one at first appeared appeared as a white flat disc and what was strange about it was
[0:57:02 - 0:57:08] ▶
the whitest white I had ever seen either of a said scene at its closest point it was 300 feet
[0:57:08 - 0:57:15] ▶
up in about 50 feet straight line up from us over a tree line of pine trees away from the lake
[0:57:15 - 0:57:22] ▶
and it was a perfectly flat white disc a pure even white light you could sense there was a body
[0:57:22 - 0:57:28] ▶
above it a round structure the diameter was in that 35 maybe 40 foot range and it did not wobble it
[0:57:28 - 0:57:37] ▶
was dead steady and it was running into moving along almost coasting like you would skip up
[0:57:37 - 0:57:43] ▶
something against smooth water just like it was running on glass totally silent and it
[0:57:43 - 0:57:51] ▶
went at about 25 30 miles an hour it was almost like it was a tourist just watching the pre-lake we were at
[0:57:51 - 0:58:00] ▶
and but it has an effect that we we looked at our watches and when it happened and we looked
[0:58:01 - 0:58:07] ▶
again when it left so we know there was no missing time yet it had an effect that we were
[0:58:07 - 0:58:13] ▶
unaware of on all the wildlife around us and obviously they have an ability to sense something
[0:58:13 - 0:58:20] ▶
that we as homo sapiens have no ability to sense and it bothered them enough that they went quiet
[0:58:20 - 0:58:29] ▶
and it was eerie because in the south in the summer with the high humidity sound travels from
[0:58:29 - 0:58:34] ▶
mile or two you get a bullfrog growing you can hear them a mile or two way easily and what was
[0:58:34 - 0:58:40] ▶
interesting was that the sound within earshot went silent not just in the immediate area
[0:58:40 - 0:58:47] ▶
and the other old sand lakes this was one of those old sand quarks been turned into a recreational
[0:58:48 - 0:58:53] ▶
lake and what interested me most was the fact that what effect this had on the wildlife was able
[0:58:53 - 0:59:02] ▶
to penetrate out beyond our ability to pick up the sound which meant a mile or two away
[0:59:02 - 0:59:07] ▶
so was it moved along it was had an effect on the insect life and whatnot that moved with it
[0:59:07 - 0:59:16] ▶
anything else you'd like to share not at this time that's your experiences not at this time
[0:59:17 - 0:59:23] ▶
well it's great timing we're right at the one hour mark you're probably see that splashing yep
[0:59:25 - 0:59:34] ▶
that is the recording
[0:59:35 - 0:59:36] ▶
the the jump and you work with a person Denver from Hughes and Mark Marietta did they have any
[0:59:40 - 0:59:46] ▶
information or knowledge about the UFO reverse engineer yeah that was primarily intelligence data
[0:59:46 - 0:59:52] ▶
they were working on spice satellites one in one aspect and the other one was working on the
[0:59:52 - 0:59:59] ▶
electronics for receiving this by data and that was their specialty and we just used them
[0:59:59 - 1:00:07] ▶
they were brought in because of their high in electronics knowledge very good thank you very much
[1:00:07 - 1:00:12] ▶
well thank you Steve
[1:00:12 - 1:00:16] ▶