2,770 segments
First of all, cheers, gentlemen.
[0:00:03 - 0:00:04] ▶
Let's have a little bit of toast.
[0:00:04 - 0:00:06] ▶
Bob, thank you very much for doing this.
[0:00:07 - 0:00:08] ▶
I really appreciate it.
[0:00:08 - 0:00:09] ▶
I understand that you've told the story many, many times.
[0:00:09 - 0:00:14] ▶
You've been grilled many, many times.
[0:00:14 - 0:00:16] ▶
And it's very stressful for you.
[0:00:16 - 0:00:17] ▶
So I really, really appreciate your time.
[0:00:17 - 0:00:19] ▶
For people who don't know the story,
[0:00:19 - 0:00:22] ▶
there's a documentary.
[0:00:22 - 0:00:24] ▶
Jeremy Corbell has a documentary out right now.
[0:00:24 - 0:00:27] ▶
It's called Bob Lazar, Area 51 in UFOs.
[0:00:27 - 0:00:31] ▶
Bob Lazar, Area 51 and flying saucers.
[0:00:33 - 0:00:36] ▶
I first heard your story decades ago.
[0:00:36 - 0:00:39] ▶
I told you last night we went out to dinner.
[0:00:39 - 0:00:41] ▶
I've seen pretty much every interview you've ever given.
[0:00:41 - 0:00:44] ▶
I've followed the story incredibly closely.
[0:00:44 - 0:00:47] ▶
But for people who don't know the story,
[0:00:47 - 0:00:49] ▶
let's give them the bullet points.
[0:00:49 - 0:00:51] ▶
You used to work at Area 51.
[0:00:51 - 0:00:56] ▶
And Area 51, you let like, huh?
[0:00:56 - 0:01:00] ▶
Well, you know, we want to be accurate.
[0:01:00 - 0:01:01] ▶
It's about 15 miles south of Area 51.
[0:01:03 - 0:01:06] ▶
But you worked in what would you, how would you describe it?
[0:01:07 - 0:01:13] ▶
I guess within the Area 51 compound,
[0:01:13 - 0:01:17] ▶
you can call that a subset of Area 51.
[0:01:17 - 0:01:20] ▶
And you got that job.
[0:01:20 - 0:01:21] ▶
Before that, you were working.
[0:01:21 - 0:01:24] ▶
Before that, I had worked at Los Alamos.
[0:01:24 - 0:01:26] ▶
National Labs in New Mexico.
[0:01:27 - 0:01:27] ▶
And you were involved in what kind of work that?
[0:01:27 - 0:01:30] ▶
Nuclear weapon development, physics.
[0:01:30 - 0:01:32] ▶
I mean, they do everything there.
[0:01:32 - 0:01:35] ▶
So how do they approach you to say, hey, Bob,
[0:01:35 - 0:01:38] ▶
once you come on out to the Nevada desert?
[0:01:38 - 0:01:42] ▶
Well, the way this went down was, at that time, it was 1982.
[0:01:42 - 0:01:50] ▶
I put a jet engine in my Honda.
[0:01:50 - 0:01:56] ▶
And Los Alamos put it on the front page of the paper.
[0:01:56 - 0:02:01] ▶
He said, you know, Los Alamos man, physicist at the lab,
[0:02:01 - 0:02:06] ▶
built this 200 mile an hour Honda jet car.
[0:02:06 - 0:02:09] ▶
I drove to work every day.
[0:02:09 - 0:02:12] ▶
So I was known in Los Alamos, the guy with the weird car.
[0:02:12 - 0:02:16] ▶
And you could hear it from a mile away.
[0:02:16 - 0:02:19] ▶
Anyway, the day that came out on the front page of the paper
[0:02:19 - 0:02:24] ▶
was the day Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb,
[0:02:24 - 0:02:27] ▶
was giving a lecture down there at the lab.
[0:02:27 - 0:02:32] ▶
And we didn't have much going on that day in our group.
[0:02:32 - 0:02:35] ▶
And I asked if I could go down there.
[0:02:35 - 0:02:38] ▶
And I went down there early.
[0:02:38 - 0:02:41] ▶
And Ed Teller was outside leaning on a brick wall there
[0:02:41 - 0:02:46] ▶
and reading the front page of the paper.
[0:02:46 - 0:02:48] ▶
Now this is a guy at a history.
[0:02:48 - 0:02:49] ▶
So I introduced myself, hey, I'm the guy you're reading about there.
[0:02:49 - 0:02:53] ▶
And we talked for a little while, and it was cool.
[0:02:53 - 0:02:56] ▶
Fast forward to years later, I had moved out to Las Vegas
[0:02:56 - 0:02:59] ▶
and had left Los Alamos and went on to other things.
[0:02:59 - 0:03:04] ▶
And I wanted to get back into the scientific community.
[0:03:04 - 0:03:07] ▶
I left start other businesses and that sort of thing.
[0:03:07 - 0:03:10] ▶
So I sent resumes out.
[0:03:10 - 0:03:12] ▶
And one of them went out to Ed Teller
[0:03:12 - 0:03:14] ▶
and referenced our meeting back in that the day.
[0:03:14 - 0:03:19] ▶
And anyway, he remembered me and gave me a reference.
[0:03:19 - 0:03:24] ▶
Somebody to contact the DGNG.
[0:03:24 - 0:03:26] ▶
And that's pretty much how it started.
[0:03:26 - 0:03:30] ▶
So you get a phone call or a letter?
[0:03:30 - 0:03:33] ▶
Like what do you get?
[0:03:33 - 0:03:36] ▶
Well, I got a letter initially and went down for an interview,
[0:03:36 - 0:03:43] ▶
probably a couple of times.
[0:03:43 - 0:03:44] ▶
And it was down at EGNG special projects,
[0:03:44 - 0:03:47] ▶
which was at Macaron Airport at that time in Las Vegas.
[0:03:47 - 0:03:51] ▶
And did they give you any sort of job description
[0:03:51 - 0:03:54] ▶
of what you were applying for?
[0:03:54 - 0:03:56] ▶
They said it was for, I can't remember exactly what they did.
[0:03:56 - 0:04:01] ▶
This was a long time ago.
[0:04:01 - 0:04:02] ▶
But I think it was advanced propulsion or something
[0:04:02 - 0:04:06] ▶
like that, something relatively generic.
[0:04:06 - 0:04:08] ▶
And they said, it's in a remote area.
[0:04:08 - 0:04:12] ▶
It's going to be some days on, some days off.
[0:04:12 - 0:04:15] ▶
And it was kind of a, not exactly a full-time job,
[0:04:15 - 0:04:22] ▶
but you might have to be out there for two weeks at a time
[0:04:22 - 0:04:25] ▶
and take two weeks off.
[0:04:25 - 0:04:26] ▶
So it was kind of the work schedule would be kind of broken up.
[0:04:26 - 0:04:30] ▶
And did it seem attractive to you or did it seem weird?
[0:04:30 - 0:04:34] ▶
No, it really wasn't weird because people
[0:04:34 - 0:04:36] ▶
that work at the test site, anybody
[0:04:36 - 0:04:38] ▶
that's familiar with the area up there,
[0:04:38 - 0:04:40] ▶
working at the nuclear test site
[0:04:40 - 0:04:43] ▶
or at the Tonopot test range north of there,
[0:04:43 - 0:04:46] ▶
that's typically how things go.
[0:04:46 - 0:04:48] ▶
So you had known about it from the scientific community?
[0:04:48 - 0:04:51] ▶
Because the area 51 at that time was still
[0:04:51 - 0:04:53] ▶
No, they did say anything about area 51.
[0:04:54 - 0:04:55] ▶
They just said it was in a remote location
[0:04:55 - 0:04:59] ▶
and you just know it was up at the test site.
[0:04:59 - 0:05:02] ▶
But there was no mention of area 51 at that time.
[0:05:02 - 0:05:04] ▶
So they've done hundreds of nuclear tests in Nevada,
[0:05:04 - 0:05:08] ▶
the whole area was, there's been,
[0:05:08 - 0:05:10] ▶
there's giant chunks of Nevada that people...
[0:05:10 - 0:05:12] ▶
Yeah, there's a big piece of Nevada
[0:05:12 - 0:05:14] ▶
and it split up into different areas.
[0:05:14 - 0:05:16] ▶
There's a nuclear test site.
[0:05:16 - 0:05:17] ▶
There's the Tonopot test range north of that.
[0:05:19 - 0:05:21] ▶
There's little sub-arries.
[0:05:21 - 0:05:22] ▶
There's areas where they test chemical weapons
[0:05:22 - 0:05:24] ▶
and things like that.
[0:05:24 - 0:05:25] ▶
So it's all broken up as a gigantic test area.
[0:05:25 - 0:05:28] ▶
So take me back to first day on the job.
[0:05:28 - 0:05:31] ▶
They take you out there.
[0:05:33 - 0:05:35] ▶
The first day really, I didn't really get to see a whole lot.
[0:05:39 - 0:05:42] ▶
The first day was essentially just paperwork.
[0:05:42 - 0:05:44] ▶
That's when I flew into area 51 proper.
[0:05:44 - 0:05:47] ▶
And I left Macaron Airport and flew what they call
[0:05:47 - 0:05:51] ▶
Just, you know, a passenger plane from Las Vegas
[0:05:53 - 0:05:57] ▶
And it was really just going through mountain
[0:05:59 - 0:06:03] ▶
and the paperwork that day.
[0:06:03 - 0:06:05] ▶
From security clearances to...
[0:06:05 - 0:06:07] ▶
God, it was like two or three hours
[0:06:08 - 0:06:11] ▶
of just solid paperwork.
[0:06:11 - 0:06:12] ▶
And that was really an uneventful first day.
[0:06:12 - 0:06:15] ▶
When did things get weird?
[0:06:16 - 0:06:18] ▶
When did you realize, at what point in time did you say,
[0:06:21 - 0:06:24] ▶
hey, this is not normal work.
[0:06:24 - 0:06:28] ▶
Like, this doesn't even seem like it's from this planet.
[0:06:28 - 0:06:31] ▶
I can't tell you what day that occurred on
[0:06:33 - 0:06:35] ▶
because so much time has gone by the days of kind of fused
[0:06:35 - 0:06:39] ▶
into one and I can't celebrate the days.
[0:06:39 - 0:06:41] ▶
Was it a slow burn or was there a moment of recognition?
[0:06:41 - 0:06:45] ▶
Well, the first inkling I had was when I came in...
[0:06:45 - 0:06:50] ▶
There's this facility that is at S4.
[0:06:50 - 0:06:54] ▶
It's in the side of a mountain.
[0:06:54 - 0:06:56] ▶
And normally we had pulled in with the bus
[0:06:56 - 0:07:00] ▶
and gone around the front through a normal double door.
[0:07:00 - 0:07:03] ▶
This time that I went in, there were hangar doors open.
[0:07:04 - 0:07:08] ▶
I went in through the hangar door
[0:07:08 - 0:07:09] ▶
and in the hangar door was the disc,
[0:07:09 - 0:07:12] ▶
the flying saucer that I worked on.
[0:07:12 - 0:07:14] ▶
I saw it sitting there and we walked by it,
[0:07:14 - 0:07:17] ▶
it had a little American flag stuck on the side
[0:07:17 - 0:07:19] ▶
and I thought, oh my God, this finally explains
[0:07:19 - 0:07:22] ▶
all the flying saucer stories.
[0:07:22 - 0:07:23] ▶
This is just an advanced fighter
[0:07:23 - 0:07:25] ▶
and this is fucking hilarious.
[0:07:25 - 0:07:28] ▶
So I went by, I slid my hand alongside it,
[0:07:28 - 0:07:31] ▶
I got reprimanded immediately for touching the thing
[0:07:31 - 0:07:34] ▶
and there was a guy in armed guard that followed us in
[0:07:34 - 0:07:36] ▶
and just said, keep your eyes forward
[0:07:36 - 0:07:39] ▶
in your hands at your side and just walk in the door.
[0:07:39 - 0:07:41] ▶
So that was the first time I had seen anything that was weird.
[0:07:41 - 0:07:45] ▶
It was some time later that I was introduced
[0:07:47 - 0:07:50] ▶
to my lab partner, Barry.
[0:07:50 - 0:07:54] ▶
And we had some of the sub components of the craft
[0:07:54 - 0:07:57] ▶
in the lab and Barry was very anxious
[0:07:57 - 0:08:00] ▶
to get a new lab partner.
[0:08:00 - 0:08:02] ▶
So he was very talkative and couldn't wait
[0:08:02 - 0:08:04] ▶
to show me different things.
[0:08:04 - 0:08:05] ▶
And it was in the demonstration of the reactor working
[0:08:05 - 0:08:09] ▶
where it caught my attention to where
[0:08:09 - 0:08:12] ▶
this is technology that doesn't even exist.
[0:08:13 - 0:08:16] ▶
So I mean, that was the first time I knew
[0:08:17 - 0:08:19] ▶
that this is really something different.
[0:08:19 - 0:08:21] ▶
What was it about this reactor
[0:08:24 - 0:08:28] ▶
that made you think that it didn't exist technologically?
[0:08:28 - 0:08:33] ▶
Well, it was the, I actually have to back up
[0:08:33 - 0:08:35] ▶
because there were some briefings that I read it
[0:08:35 - 0:08:37] ▶
before that that certainly gave me the impression
[0:08:37 - 0:08:42] ▶
that this was gonna be a weird job,
[0:08:43 - 0:08:44] ▶
but this was the first hands-on thing.
[0:08:44 - 0:08:47] ▶
This was a small reactor about the size of a hemisphere
[0:08:47 - 0:08:50] ▶
about the size of a basketball on a metal plate.
[0:08:50 - 0:08:53] ▶
And when it was running, it produced a gravitational field,
[0:08:53 - 0:08:57] ▶
a gravitational field of its own.
[0:08:57 - 0:08:59] ▶
Now this is something that we can't do.
[0:08:59 - 0:09:01] ▶
We can't produce any gravity.
[0:09:01 - 0:09:03] ▶
The only way we get gravity is from large quantities of mass.
[0:09:03 - 0:09:07] ▶
But there's no machine we can have that turns on
[0:09:07 - 0:09:09] ▶
that makes gravity like, you know, you can turn
[0:09:09 - 0:09:12] ▶
on an electromagnet and it makes a magnetic field.
[0:09:12 - 0:09:15] ▶
We can't make a gravitational field.
[0:09:15 - 0:09:17] ▶
Anyway, this device was producing that.
[0:09:17 - 0:09:19] ▶
And Barry said, almost like he was bragging.
[0:09:19 - 0:09:23] ▶
Go ahead, try and touch the sphere.
[0:09:23 - 0:09:25] ▶
And I couldn't, it pushed my hands away.
[0:09:25 - 0:09:28] ▶
Just like two like poles of a magnet.
[0:09:28 - 0:09:30] ▶
So like when you take two magnets
[0:09:31 - 0:09:32] ▶
and try to press them together and make a push against each other?
[0:09:32 - 0:09:34] ▶
Yeah, kind of a cushion feeling,
[0:09:34 - 0:09:36] ▶
but you can't get them together.
[0:09:36 - 0:09:38] ▶
The closer you put them, the more they push.
[0:09:38 - 0:09:40] ▶
But you felt that physically with your hand.
[0:09:40 - 0:09:41] ▶
Yeah, now there's nothing, there's nothing that does that.
[0:09:41 - 0:09:44] ▶
And that immediately caught my attention going,
[0:09:44 - 0:09:47] ▶
wow, this is something else.
[0:09:47 - 0:09:49] ▶
What was your thought?
[0:09:49 - 0:09:50] ▶
Like when you felt that and you knew
[0:09:50 - 0:09:52] ▶
that there was nothing that you were aware of
[0:09:52 - 0:09:55] ▶
that could produce that.
[0:09:55 - 0:09:56] ▶
Then that connected me to the briefings that I read
[0:09:56 - 0:09:59] ▶
on the first day at S4 was that, you know,
[0:09:59 - 0:10:03] ▶
everything that I had read was apparently accurate.
[0:10:03 - 0:10:06] ▶
What were you reading?
[0:10:06 - 0:10:08] ▶
I read, it was kind of an overview.
[0:10:08 - 0:10:11] ▶
This project was to back engineer the alien craft.
[0:10:11 - 0:10:16] ▶
And specifically it was to try and back engineer
[0:10:16 - 0:10:20] ▶
and see if we can duplicate the technology
[0:10:20 - 0:10:23] ▶
with available materials.
[0:10:23 - 0:10:24] ▶
Now to do this, they split the project into, you know,
[0:10:26 - 0:10:30] ▶
many different pieces for several reasons.
[0:10:30 - 0:10:32] ▶
They do this on all classified projects.
[0:10:32 - 0:10:34] ▶
So nobody has the complete story,
[0:10:34 - 0:10:38] ▶
but they compartmentalize everything.
[0:10:38 - 0:10:40] ▶
Now we had the power and propulsion system.
[0:10:40 - 0:10:42] ▶
So what the briefings they gave me were like
[0:10:42 - 0:10:44] ▶
a one or two page overview of some of the other projects
[0:10:44 - 0:10:48] ▶
that were going on, you know, on the craft.
[0:10:48 - 0:10:50] ▶
The only reason they do that is just in case
[0:10:50 - 0:10:53] ▶
what you're working on is connected intimately
[0:10:53 - 0:10:55] ▶
in some way that we don't know of to one of the other projects
[0:10:55 - 0:10:58] ▶
you have to know, excuse me, their existence.
[0:10:58 - 0:11:01] ▶
So, you know, I bet that, again,
[0:11:01 - 0:11:06] ▶
everything from metallurgy to, you know,
[0:11:06 - 0:11:09] ▶
weapon potential of the craft.
[0:11:09 - 0:11:11] ▶
And these were all, you know, essentially very short
[0:11:11 - 0:11:14] ▶
briefings, but mine was just power and propulsion.
[0:11:14 - 0:11:18] ▶
And it made it very clear that what I read was accurate.
[0:11:18 - 0:11:23] ▶
So when you were reading that before you actually saw the reactor,
[0:11:23 - 0:11:26] ▶
what were your thoughts on what they were describing?
[0:11:28 - 0:11:30] ▶
If you knew that something like that didn't exist
[0:11:32 - 0:11:35] ▶
and they're describing it in the briefings,
[0:11:35 - 0:11:38] ▶
what did you think you were going to see?
[0:11:38 - 0:11:40] ▶
I really, I didn't know at the time.
[0:11:40 - 0:11:42] ▶
I mean, I was reading, I thought,
[0:11:42 - 0:11:43] ▶
is this is some kind of test?
[0:11:43 - 0:11:45] ▶
See if you're crazy.
[0:11:46 - 0:11:48] ▶
Well, not to see if I'm crazy to, you know,
[0:11:48 - 0:11:50] ▶
a lot of times they'll take in real high security jobs.
[0:11:50 - 0:11:55] ▶
I mean, they'll intentionally insert nonsense into them.
[0:11:55 - 0:11:58] ▶
Whether it's to confuse the fact
[0:11:59 - 0:12:01] ▶
or if someone was to leak it out,
[0:12:01 - 0:12:03] ▶
they would carry that information along
[0:12:03 - 0:12:05] ▶
and know where it came from.
[0:12:05 - 0:12:06] ▶
So I read through the documents,
[0:12:06 - 0:12:09] ▶
but I didn't know if this was part of some kind of test
[0:12:09 - 0:12:14] ▶
or what or was it potentially realistic.
[0:12:14 - 0:12:19] ▶
I mean, I really didn't consider it being all that possible
[0:12:19 - 0:12:23] ▶
as far as being the actual thing that I was going to work on at the time.
[0:12:23 - 0:12:28] ▶
How did they turn it on?
[0:12:28 - 0:12:30] ▶
The reactor could be turned on or turned off in a lot of different ways.
[0:12:32 - 0:12:35] ▶
The way Barry showed me, the hemisphere is removed.
[0:12:36 - 0:12:40] ▶
There's a small tower in the middle.
[0:12:40 - 0:12:42] ▶
When you put the hemisphere on, the reactor activates.
[0:12:42 - 0:12:45] ▶
The reactor shuts down.
[0:12:45 - 0:12:47] ▶
So if there's no load on the reactor at all,
[0:12:49 - 0:12:52] ▶
it shuts down when there's a load present on it,
[0:12:52 - 0:12:55] ▶
You can consider it an electrical load.
[0:12:58 - 0:13:01] ▶
So although it doesn't necessarily operate electrically,
[0:13:01 - 0:13:07] ▶
there's no wiring that connects any of the subcomponents together,
[0:13:07 - 0:13:10] ▶
They just have to be in the immediate vicinity.
[0:13:11 - 0:13:13] ▶
The stuff is borderline magic.
[0:13:15 - 0:13:18] ▶
And that's essentially where we left it, you know,
[0:13:18 - 0:13:21] ▶
when I left the project.
[0:13:21 - 0:13:23] ▶
So there was no progress made.
[0:13:23 - 0:13:24] ▶
There was some progress.
[0:13:25 - 0:13:26] ▶
I mean, we did identify at least we think some processes
[0:13:26 - 0:13:30] ▶
and had a rough idea.
[0:13:30 - 0:13:32] ▶
We think of what was going on.
[0:13:32 - 0:13:34] ▶
But I think this is a problem that they've had for a long time.
[0:13:34 - 0:13:39] ▶
And, you know, I was replacing somebody
[0:13:39 - 0:13:43] ▶
that Barry worked with prior to me.
[0:13:43 - 0:13:45] ▶
And I think there was some horrific accident
[0:13:45 - 0:13:47] ▶
that I didn't have a whole lot of information on,
[0:13:47 - 0:13:50] ▶
but you know, Barry alluded to that.
[0:13:50 - 0:13:53] ▶
A horrific accident like where someone died or...
[0:13:53 - 0:13:55] ▶
Yeah, where somebody died.
[0:13:55 - 0:13:57] ▶
Because they were trying to tamper with things
[0:13:57 - 0:13:59] ▶
or figure out how something worked.
[0:13:59 - 0:14:01] ▶
Yeah, the reactor in particular.
[0:14:01 - 0:14:03] ▶
But yet he let you touch it.
[0:14:03 - 0:14:05] ▶
Yeah, I think what they were trying to do was cut into one.
[0:14:06 - 0:14:09] ▶
Now they had more than one there.
[0:14:09 - 0:14:11] ▶
And it was supposedly there was an unannounced nuclear test.
[0:14:11 - 0:14:15] ▶
And that's what it was.
[0:14:15 - 0:14:17] ▶
At the time, remember, they were still doing underground
[0:14:17 - 0:14:19] ▶
nuclear tests at the test site.
[0:14:19 - 0:14:21] ▶
But from what I understand according to Barry,
[0:14:22 - 0:14:25] ▶
there was an attempt made.
[0:14:25 - 0:14:26] ▶
Now this must have been a pretty desperate attempt
[0:14:26 - 0:14:28] ▶
because it's not a very scientific process
[0:14:28 - 0:14:31] ▶
to cut, you know, analyze something that way.
[0:14:31 - 0:14:34] ▶
But it looked like they used a plasma cutter or something
[0:14:34 - 0:14:36] ▶
I got to cut into an operating reactor.
[0:14:36 - 0:14:39] ▶
How many of these things did they have?
[0:14:39 - 0:14:41] ▶
They had nine craft altogether.
[0:14:41 - 0:14:43] ▶
I only got hands on with one of them.
[0:14:43 - 0:14:46] ▶
So I can't really say how the others operated.
[0:14:46 - 0:14:50] ▶
Did you see the other ones?
[0:14:50 - 0:14:51] ▶
Yeah, at one time and only one time,
[0:14:51 - 0:14:53] ▶
the bay doors that between the hangers were all open.
[0:14:53 - 0:14:57] ▶
And I could see all the way through.
[0:14:57 - 0:14:59] ▶
And were they all exactly the same?
[0:14:59 - 0:15:02] ▶
No, they were all different.
[0:15:02 - 0:15:03] ▶
But they were all from somewhere else.
[0:15:05 - 0:15:07] ▶
Now, did anyone make any attempt to explain
[0:15:09 - 0:15:13] ▶
or to tell you where they came from?
[0:15:13 - 0:15:17] ▶
No one is the least bit interested in letting everybody know
[0:15:18 - 0:15:21] ▶
They want to give you the minimum information
[0:15:22 - 0:15:24] ▶
that's necessary to complete your task.
[0:15:24 - 0:15:26] ▶
So you're not getting the story of where they came from.
[0:15:26 - 0:15:29] ▶
You're not getting the story of how much progress other people
[0:15:29 - 0:15:33] ▶
You just focus on the small component.
[0:15:33 - 0:15:36] ▶
But they gave you some indication
[0:15:36 - 0:15:38] ▶
that they've been working on these for a while.
[0:15:38 - 0:15:40] ▶
When do you think they acquired these?
[0:15:41 - 0:15:45] ▶
I really couldn't say.
[0:15:45 - 0:15:47] ▶
I think they've been around for a while.
[0:15:47 - 0:15:50] ▶
So they bring you into this room.
[0:15:50 - 0:15:53] ▶
You see this reactor working.
[0:15:53 - 0:15:56] ▶
You realize this is nothing that as far as the scientific community
[0:15:56 - 0:16:00] ▶
at the current time has the ability to create.
[0:16:00 - 0:16:05] ▶
What is your life like from that moment on?
[0:16:06 - 0:16:08] ▶
Is that where everything changes?
[0:16:08 - 0:16:10] ▶
Because I would imagine the moment you actually
[0:16:10 - 0:16:13] ▶
make contact with something that's extra-trestored,
[0:16:13 - 0:16:16] ▶
whether it's an object or a being, something
[0:16:16 - 0:16:18] ▶
where you can actually absolutely be certain.
[0:16:18 - 0:16:21] ▶
Your whole paradigm, the whole world you live in,
[0:16:23 - 0:16:27] ▶
is now a different place.
[0:16:27 - 0:16:28] ▶
Well, this is the only time it became exciting.
[0:16:28 - 0:16:31] ▶
The rest of the time, it was really an ominous feeling
[0:16:31 - 0:16:36] ▶
But at that time, it was exciting.
[0:16:36 - 0:16:40] ▶
Now I knew we were on the absolute beyond the cutting edge
[0:16:40 - 0:16:44] ▶
And I was so absolutely excited to be there
[0:16:45 - 0:16:49] ▶
every single time I was.
[0:16:49 - 0:16:53] ▶
This was a fantastic opportunity.
[0:16:53 - 0:16:55] ▶
And however, in short order, it began to concern me.
[0:16:55 - 0:17:04] ▶
We really have no idea what we're talking about.
[0:17:04 - 0:17:08] ▶
And the excitement kind of turned to dread at some point.
[0:17:08 - 0:17:14] ▶
Because the amount of power we're dealing with is astronomical.
[0:17:14 - 0:17:19] ▶
I mean, to affect gravity to produce the effects
[0:17:19 - 0:17:22] ▶
like this equipment does, takes huge amounts of power.
[0:17:22 - 0:17:26] ▶
And I've given the example before of taking a small portable
[0:17:26 - 0:17:32] ▶
nuclear reactor and putting it back into Victorian times
[0:17:32 - 0:17:36] ▶
with the scientists of the time and just dropping it
[0:17:36 - 0:17:39] ▶
And they come and look at it and see that it's producing power
[0:17:40 - 0:17:44] ▶
and wonder how it works.
[0:17:44 - 0:17:45] ▶
So they start taking it apart.
[0:17:45 - 0:17:47] ▶
And as soon as they get some of the shielding off,
[0:17:47 - 0:17:50] ▶
the people are going to drop dead because of the radiation
[0:17:50 - 0:17:52] ▶
Now, the people have no idea that the radiation even exists
[0:17:53 - 0:17:57] ▶
But anybody that comes into check on them
[0:17:58 - 0:18:00] ▶
will also drop dead.
[0:18:00 - 0:18:02] ▶
And there's no reason that that exact scenario couldn't
[0:18:02 - 0:18:08] ▶
happen with what we're dealing with.
[0:18:08 - 0:18:10] ▶
We have no idea how the physics operate within this thing.
[0:18:10 - 0:18:14] ▶
The power levels are, like I said, astronomical.
[0:18:14 - 0:18:17] ▶
It's incredibly dangerous to tinker with something
[0:18:17 - 0:18:20] ▶
And in some respects, we were guinea pigs just
[0:18:21 - 0:18:24] ▶
tried to find out how to make this thing.
[0:18:24 - 0:18:26] ▶
So they had a series as far as you're
[0:18:26 - 0:18:30] ▶
They had a series of different scientists
[0:18:30 - 0:18:32] ▶
try to back engineer this thing, try
[0:18:32 - 0:18:34] ▶
to figure out what this thing was.
[0:18:34 - 0:18:35] ▶
And they would bring in new people and let's throw Bob out.
[0:18:35 - 0:18:38] ▶
I don't know how many, but I knew there
[0:18:40 - 0:18:42] ▶
was certainly one before me.
[0:18:42 - 0:18:43] ▶
And I knew he died during the analysis of the reactor itself.
[0:18:43 - 0:18:49] ▶
And you don't know how many have worked on it.
[0:18:49 - 0:18:53] ▶
And no one gave any attention.
[0:18:53 - 0:18:55] ▶
This could have been there for 50 years.
[0:18:55 - 0:18:57] ▶
It could have been there for five years.
[0:18:57 - 0:18:59] ▶
When they're giving you instructions,
[0:18:59 - 0:19:00] ▶
what are they saying?
[0:19:00 - 0:19:02] ▶
When they're giving you direction,
[0:19:02 - 0:19:03] ▶
they're showing you all this stuff.
[0:19:03 - 0:19:05] ▶
What are they saying?
[0:19:05 - 0:19:05] ▶
Specifically, what are they asking of you?
[0:19:05 - 0:19:08] ▶
Well, essentially, what they ask is what I said.
[0:19:08 - 0:19:11] ▶
We are just to gather as much information as possible.
[0:19:11 - 0:19:14] ▶
Find out how it operates and see if we can duplicate it.
[0:19:14 - 0:19:17] ▶
But they never told you where it was from.
[0:19:17 - 0:19:19] ▶
They never let you ask questions about where it's from.
[0:19:19 - 0:19:22] ▶
Well, if the information I read in the briefings was accurate,
[0:19:22 - 0:19:27] ▶
now what I do have to say is the information
[0:19:27 - 0:19:30] ▶
that pertained directly to the reactor was accurate.
[0:19:30 - 0:19:34] ▶
What I read did, I mean, did jive with reality in terms of how?
[0:19:34 - 0:19:43] ▶
In terms of how it was made,
[0:19:43 - 0:19:44] ▶
how we saw how it operated, the materials,
[0:19:44 - 0:19:47] ▶
how it turned on and what was discovered about it.
[0:19:47 - 0:19:54] ▶
I'm sorry, the migraine is really making it hard for me
[0:19:54 - 0:19:56] ▶
Sorry, no, we talked that before the podcast.
[0:19:57 - 0:20:00] ▶
You tell everybody Bob is getting a migraine.
[0:20:00 - 0:20:01] ▶
I know you're very stressed out by this,
[0:20:01 - 0:20:03] ▶
it's just one of the reasons why I appreciate you doing this.
[0:20:03 - 0:20:07] ▶
Where was I already?
[0:20:07 - 0:20:08] ▶
We were talking about what it explained to him.
[0:20:08 - 0:20:10] ▶
And so there was some paperwork that indicated
[0:20:10 - 0:20:15] ▶
that this was from the Zeta reticulate star system.
[0:20:15 - 0:20:19] ▶
Now, yeah, now how they obtained that,
[0:20:19 - 0:20:23] ▶
I haven't the slightest idea,
[0:20:23 - 0:20:26] ▶
but it wasn't just from the Zeta reticulate star system.
[0:20:26 - 0:20:28] ▶
It was what they called ZR3.
[0:20:28 - 0:20:31] ▶
So it was a third planet in that star system.
[0:20:31 - 0:20:34] ▶
So there was no other information about it,
[0:20:34 - 0:20:37] ▶
other than that supposedly where the craft came from.
[0:20:37 - 0:20:40] ▶
I don't know, I have no way of verifying that,
[0:20:41 - 0:20:43] ▶
but that was printed in the same materials
[0:20:43 - 0:20:45] ▶
that referenced the reactor.
[0:20:45 - 0:20:47] ▶
Now, I looked that stuff up when I went home,
[0:20:47 - 0:20:50] ▶
and Zeta reticulate as a binary star,
[0:20:50 - 0:20:53] ▶
two stars at orbit one another,
[0:20:54 - 0:20:57] ▶
and it's only visible in the Southern hemisphere
[0:20:57 - 0:20:58] ▶
and it's about 30 somewhat light years away.
[0:20:58 - 0:21:01] ▶
So that's literally all the information I have about that.
[0:21:01 - 0:21:04] ▶
I don't know how they found out it came from there.
[0:21:04 - 0:21:07] ▶
You can also probably have some suspicions
[0:21:07 - 0:21:09] ▶
that they give you some disinformation
[0:21:09 - 0:21:11] ▶
like you were talking about before.
[0:21:11 - 0:21:13] ▶
I mean, if you ever decided to talk about this,
[0:21:15 - 0:21:17] ▶
they added a bunch of nonsense
[0:21:17 - 0:21:19] ▶
to make whatever is factual look ridiculous.
[0:21:19 - 0:21:21] ▶
Right, or be able to trace it down.
[0:21:21 - 0:21:24] ▶
They go, hey, this facts came out,
[0:21:24 - 0:21:25] ▶
and this Lizar guy said it came from Zeta reticulate
[0:21:25 - 0:21:29] ▶
so they knew it would be made.
[0:21:29 - 0:21:30] ▶
When you read Zeta reticulate,
[0:21:30 - 0:21:32] ▶
we were like, what in the fuck is this?
[0:21:32 - 0:21:35] ▶
Well, reading all of the stuff,
[0:21:35 - 0:21:37] ▶
it was what in the fuck is this?
[0:21:37 - 0:21:38] ▶
You're like, why did I sign up for this?
[0:21:38 - 0:21:40] ▶
No, no, to me, this was cool.
[0:21:41 - 0:21:42] ▶
This was interesting.
[0:21:42 - 0:21:43] ▶
I said, I was just excited to be out in a secure area,
[0:21:43 - 0:21:47] ▶
you know, in the middle of the desert.
[0:21:47 - 0:21:48] ▶
How old are you at the time?
[0:21:49 - 0:21:50] ▶
Yeah, so you're probably totally geeked out.
[0:21:53 - 0:21:55] ▶
Oh, yeah, this was great.
[0:21:55 - 0:21:58] ▶
I mean, I was excited.
[0:21:58 - 0:22:00] ▶
I've read through everything and yeah.
[0:22:01 - 0:22:02] ▶
So you read through all the Zeta reticulate thing,
[0:22:02 - 0:22:04] ▶
but then when you see the actual starship
[0:22:04 - 0:22:06] ▶
with the little American flag sticker on it,
[0:22:06 - 0:22:08] ▶
well, that was, was that later or before?
[0:22:08 - 0:22:11] ▶
So you see the thing before and you say,
[0:22:17 - 0:22:18] ▶
oh, this is a Marri-Camp.
[0:22:18 - 0:22:19] ▶
Wait, what's that before?
[0:22:19 - 0:22:20] ▶
Either way, it doesn't matter.
[0:22:23 - 0:22:24] ▶
The days have fused together.
[0:22:24 - 0:22:25] ▶
It's so hard to separate what happened in each visit.
[0:22:25 - 0:22:28] ▶
Do you remember the thought process
[0:22:28 - 0:22:30] ▶
when you read that it's from Zeta reticulate?
[0:22:30 - 0:22:32] ▶
Yeah, it didn't hit me like a ton of bricks or anything.
[0:22:32 - 0:22:36] ▶
It was just like, yeah, okay.
[0:22:36 - 0:22:38] ▶
You think it was bullshit?
[0:22:38 - 0:22:39] ▶
You just really don't know.
[0:22:40 - 0:22:41] ▶
I mean, because when I read it,
[0:22:42 - 0:22:43] ▶
I hadn't verified anything.
[0:22:43 - 0:22:45] ▶
And this was just a bunch of stuff I was reading.
[0:22:45 - 0:22:47] ▶
And maybe after this,
[0:22:47 - 0:22:49] ▶
they're just gonna give me a test
[0:22:49 - 0:22:50] ▶
and see what I can remember in crazy information.
[0:22:50 - 0:22:53] ▶
And then it would, but like I said,
[0:22:53 - 0:22:56] ▶
when I finally went in with Barry,
[0:22:56 - 0:22:59] ▶
and had hands on experience with what they were talking about,
[0:22:59 - 0:23:04] ▶
it's not gonna completely different meaning.
[0:23:04 - 0:23:08] ▶
There's this thing that looks like a half a basketball.
[0:23:09 - 0:23:11] ▶
And when it's on, you can't come anywhere near it.
[0:23:11 - 0:23:13] ▶
How is, what is gravity about that?
[0:23:15 - 0:23:19] ▶
Like the concept of gravity.
[0:23:19 - 0:23:20] ▶
Most people's gravity is bringing something towards it.
[0:23:20 - 0:23:22] ▶
Well, I guess you would say it's anti-gravity.
[0:23:23 - 0:23:25] ▶
It's gravity shifted 180 degrees.
[0:23:25 - 0:23:27] ▶
It's, you know, anti-gravity.
[0:23:27 - 0:23:31] ▶
And did they have any understanding
[0:23:31 - 0:23:34] ▶
about what could possibly create this effect?
[0:23:34 - 0:23:38] ▶
Did they have any areas where they'd like you to look into?
[0:23:38 - 0:23:42] ▶
No, they, well, they knew there was a fuel source in it.
[0:23:42 - 0:23:47] ▶
And they were proficient at making it work.
[0:23:50 - 0:23:54] ▶
And again, my analogy to something like this is,
[0:23:54 - 0:23:56] ▶
you can drop a motorcycle off in the wagon train days
[0:23:56 - 0:23:59] ▶
and just leave it with the keys parked outside,
[0:23:59 - 0:24:01] ▶
you know, somebody's place.
[0:24:01 - 0:24:03] ▶
Everybody'll come around it and they'll poke and prod.
[0:24:03 - 0:24:05] ▶
And eventually, they'll turn the key, get it to start
[0:24:05 - 0:24:08] ▶
and become proficient at writing it.
[0:24:08 - 0:24:11] ▶
But they won't be able to understand
[0:24:11 - 0:24:14] ▶
what the hell's going on.
[0:24:14 - 0:24:15] ▶
They won't be able to make the plastic fender
[0:24:15 - 0:24:17] ▶
much less anything else.
[0:24:17 - 0:24:19] ▶
And I think that's exactly the state we were at.
[0:24:19 - 0:24:21] ▶
We played around with the parts long enough
[0:24:21 - 0:24:23] ▶
before I got there, where they could make
[0:24:23 - 0:24:25] ▶
the reactor operate, take the fuel out
[0:24:25 - 0:24:29] ▶
and know that it makes it work, how exactly
[0:24:29 - 0:24:33] ▶
what was going on in the reactor made a mystery at the time.
[0:24:33 - 0:24:38] ▶
I think we made some progress on what was going on inside.
[0:24:40 - 0:24:44] ▶
But I don't think anybody really knew anything.
[0:24:44 - 0:24:47] ▶
They could just watch what was going on and make note of it.
[0:24:47 - 0:24:50] ▶
How long were you there?
[0:24:50 - 0:24:52] ▶
I'd say about six months or so.
[0:24:52 - 0:24:54] ▶
And what progress was made while you were there?
[0:24:54 - 0:24:58] ▶
Well, we came up with a bunch of reasonably good ideas
[0:24:58 - 0:25:03] ▶
about how the reactor worked.
[0:25:03 - 0:25:05] ▶
And one of them was the square base of it
[0:25:05 - 0:25:08] ▶
was essentially like a cyclotron, which
[0:25:08 - 0:25:11] ▶
is a small particle accelerator, a circular one.
[0:25:11 - 0:25:14] ▶
Particle accelerators, linear particle accelerators
[0:25:14 - 0:25:16] ▶
are just long tube, essentially, in the accelerate
[0:25:16 - 0:25:20] ▶
particles with high voltage and radio frequencies
[0:25:20 - 0:25:23] ▶
until they reach high speeds.
[0:25:23 - 0:25:25] ▶
But a cyclotron does that in a small circular area.
[0:25:25 - 0:25:28] ▶
And there is this very heavy element fuel, element 115,
[0:25:28 - 0:25:34] ▶
something that wasn't on our periodic charts at the time.
[0:25:34 - 0:25:37] ▶
When did it become on the periodic table now,
[0:25:39 - 0:25:42] ▶
the way the charts now?
[0:25:42 - 0:25:43] ▶
You know, I don't remember.
[0:25:43 - 0:25:45] ▶
Do you remember when they?
[0:25:45 - 0:25:46] ▶
2004, Dermstadt, Germany, I think,
[0:25:46 - 0:25:49] ▶
is where they first advocated four atoms.
[0:25:49 - 0:25:51] ▶
It lasted 220 milliseconds with the atoms.
[0:25:51 - 0:25:54] ▶
It's nothing, right?
[0:25:54 - 0:25:55] ▶
And then later it was discovered a couple more times.
[0:25:55 - 0:25:57] ▶
They could fabricate it.
[0:25:57 - 0:25:59] ▶
Then they gave it a place then on the periodic chart
[0:25:59 - 0:26:02] ▶
after that called it muskovian.
[0:26:02 - 0:26:04] ▶
So they told you about this stuff in 1982?
[0:26:04 - 0:26:10] ▶
Well, we kind of, what year was this?
[0:26:10 - 0:26:13] ▶
I was when you lost Alamos.
[0:26:17 - 0:26:18] ▶
So 88, 89, they told you about this stuff.
[0:26:20 - 0:26:22] ▶
So this was not like, no, they didn't tell me about it.
[0:26:22 - 0:26:25] ▶
That's one of the things that this group came up with.
[0:26:25 - 0:26:28] ▶
The, I keep losing my drain of thought with this thing.
[0:26:28 - 0:26:34] ▶
So this one area, this element 115 was the fuel.
[0:26:34 - 0:26:40] ▶
The world were for give you for having a migraine.
[0:26:51 - 0:26:53] ▶
I can I just really hard to think through.
[0:26:53 - 0:26:55] ▶
I did a million minutes.
[0:26:55 - 0:26:56] ▶
I just say, yeah, definitely.
[0:26:57 - 0:26:58] ▶
As I say one thing, you know, for the last 30 years,
[0:26:58 - 0:27:02] ▶
people have just been on the attack on Bob, you know,
[0:27:02 - 0:27:05] ▶
getting to know him, the personal effects on his life.
[0:27:05 - 0:27:07] ▶
It's really hard to understand unless you meet his family
[0:27:07 - 0:27:10] ▶
I mean, this is the last thing he wanted to fucking do
[0:27:11 - 0:27:14] ▶
Yeah, we should explain that, Jeremy,
[0:27:15 - 0:27:17] ▶
that you and I had this conversation.
[0:27:17 - 0:27:18] ▶
I watched your documentary.
[0:27:18 - 0:27:20] ▶
We had this conversation and I said, I have to talk to him.
[0:27:20 - 0:27:24] ▶
The document, there's been detractors.
[0:27:25 - 0:27:27] ▶
There's been a bunch of people that called bullshit
[0:27:27 - 0:27:29] ▶
on many of the things that you've said.
[0:27:29 - 0:27:31] ▶
But over time, many of the things that you talked about
[0:27:31 - 0:27:35] ▶
even in the 80s have proven to be true.
[0:27:35 - 0:27:38] ▶
Things that people said were not true,
[0:27:38 - 0:27:40] ▶
were proven to be true.
[0:27:40 - 0:27:41] ▶
Element 115 was one of them, right?
[0:27:41 - 0:27:45] ▶
Element 115, the fuel they had was stable.
[0:27:46 - 0:27:50] ▶
In other words, it didn't decay.
[0:27:50 - 0:27:51] ▶
It wasn't emitting radioactivity.
[0:27:51 - 0:27:54] ▶
When they synthesized the two or three atoms of the 115,
[0:27:54 - 0:27:59] ▶
it did decay and it was not a stable element.
[0:27:59 - 0:28:02] ▶
So they're kind of two different things.
[0:28:02 - 0:28:04] ▶
But this is kind of typical.
[0:28:04 - 0:28:06] ▶
Elements always have, or pretty much always have,
[0:28:06 - 0:28:10] ▶
stable isotopes and unstable isotopes.
[0:28:10 - 0:28:12] ▶
I think CZM has like 30 unstable isotopes to it.
[0:28:12 - 0:28:17] ▶
So, well, hydrogen, for example,
[0:28:17 - 0:28:19] ▶
you're familiar with hydrogen gas.
[0:28:19 - 0:28:22] ▶
It's stable, it's not radioactive.
[0:28:22 - 0:28:24] ▶
But there's also two other types of hydrogen.
[0:28:24 - 0:28:28] ▶
Duterium and Tridium.
[0:28:28 - 0:28:30] ▶
And Duterium isn't radioactive.
[0:28:30 - 0:28:32] ▶
It's another stable isotope of hydrogen.
[0:28:32 - 0:28:34] ▶
But Tridium is radioactive.
[0:28:34 - 0:28:36] ▶
Now they're all hydrogen, but they just
[0:28:36 - 0:28:38] ▶
have a different amounts of neutrons.
[0:28:38 - 0:28:40] ▶
So it's the same thing with other elements and element 115.
[0:28:40 - 0:28:44] ▶
Depending on the amount of neutrons it has,
[0:28:44 - 0:28:48] ▶
designates the isotope, but it's 115.
[0:28:48 - 0:28:52] ▶
They will continue to take or experiment
[0:28:52 - 0:28:56] ▶
and try and make 115 at different isotopes.
[0:28:56 - 0:28:59] ▶
And I'm sure eventually they'll come up with a stable version.
[0:28:59 - 0:29:02] ▶
But it's the stable version that has the properties
[0:29:02 - 0:29:05] ▶
that we're talking about.
[0:29:05 - 0:29:06] ▶
So they somehow or another had acquired a stable version.
[0:29:06 - 0:29:10] ▶
They say that the stable version had come with this craft.
[0:29:10 - 0:29:12] ▶
Yeah, it absolutely came with the craft.
[0:29:12 - 0:29:14] ▶
So at the time you having a firm knowledge of the periodic chart
[0:29:14 - 0:29:19] ▶
and knowing what was real and what wasn't real,
[0:29:19 - 0:29:21] ▶
what was your reaction to having this stable element 115
[0:29:21 - 0:29:25] ▶
that wasn't even supposed to exist?
[0:29:25 - 0:29:27] ▶
Well, everything was impossible.
[0:29:27 - 0:29:29] ▶
I mean, down to the metal, I did get a chance
[0:29:29 - 0:29:33] ▶
to look inside the craft on only one occasion.
[0:29:33 - 0:29:37] ▶
And this was important because where the reactor sat
[0:29:37 - 0:29:42] ▶
might have been critical to how it operated
[0:29:42 - 0:29:44] ▶
since everything operates without any interconnections.
[0:29:44 - 0:29:47] ▶
So the placement of components might be critical.
[0:29:47 - 0:29:50] ▶
So they allowed me to go inside and look at it.
[0:29:50 - 0:29:55] ▶
Shoot, again, I forgot where the hell I am.
[0:29:55 - 0:29:58] ▶
So you're going into this craft and what are you thinking
[0:29:58 - 0:30:01] ▶
when you're inside of it?
[0:30:01 - 0:30:02] ▶
Like what are you seeing?
[0:30:02 - 0:30:04] ▶
It's a very ominous feeling because it's,
[0:30:04 - 0:30:09] ▶
there are no, first of all, everything is one color.
[0:30:09 - 0:30:12] ▶
It's like a dark pewter color.
[0:30:12 - 0:30:14] ▶
And there are no right angles anywhere.
[0:30:14 - 0:30:18] ▶
It's as if somebody took, I've said this before,
[0:30:18 - 0:30:21] ▶
somebody took a model out of, and fashioned it out of wax
[0:30:21 - 0:30:25] ▶
and then heated it just for a short time.
[0:30:25 - 0:30:27] ▶
So everything melted.
[0:30:27 - 0:30:28] ▶
Everything looks like it's fused together.
[0:30:28 - 0:30:30] ▶
Everything is a radius, a curvature, or two items meet.
[0:30:30 - 0:30:35] ▶
It's a really weird looking thing.
[0:30:35 - 0:30:38] ▶
But there was almost nothing other than a small foldable hatch
[0:30:38 - 0:30:47] ▶
way that looked recognizable.
[0:30:47 - 0:30:50] ▶
Everything was really unwirldy to pick on it
[0:30:50 - 0:30:55] ▶
when you were to describe it.
[0:30:55 - 0:30:56] ▶
So you get inside this thing and it's
[0:30:56 - 0:30:59] ▶
designed for something that's much smaller than a human being.
[0:30:59 - 0:31:02] ▶
Yeah, you can't really stand up till you get to the very center of it.
[0:31:02 - 0:31:05] ▶
And what do you think this was designed for?
[0:31:07 - 0:31:10] ▶
I'd say something close to half my height.
[0:31:10 - 0:31:12] ▶
So these little three foot tallish creatures?
[0:31:13 - 0:31:17] ▶
Yeah, and the seats were small too.
[0:31:17 - 0:31:19] ▶
I mean, obviously it was made for something, something small.
[0:31:19 - 0:31:23] ▶
But there's nothing else in there.
[0:31:23 - 0:31:28] ▶
There's just seats, the reactor, and some of the subcomponents.
[0:31:28 - 0:31:31] ▶
There's no control panels.
[0:31:31 - 0:31:33] ▶
There's no bathroom.
[0:31:33 - 0:31:34] ▶
There's no decorative components or artwork or anything that you would recognize
[0:31:34 - 0:31:40] ▶
I mean, it's just a very bare bones thing.
[0:31:41 - 0:31:44] ▶
You're not seeing any screens.
[0:31:44 - 0:31:47] ▶
Well, there are archways around it that are part of the superstructure.
[0:31:47 - 0:31:51] ▶
And one of the archways can become transparent.
[0:31:51 - 0:31:56] ▶
When I was in there, there was another group working on one of the archways.
[0:31:56 - 0:32:01] ▶
And you could call that a screen.
[0:32:01 - 0:32:03] ▶
So through that archway, it would maintain the solidity, the solid, whatever metal it was.
[0:32:05 - 0:32:13] ▶
But you could see through it.
[0:32:14 - 0:32:15] ▶
Yeah, it just became transparent.
[0:32:15 - 0:32:16] ▶
I saw that happen once or twice before I left.
[0:32:17 - 0:32:19] ▶
Did you ask any questions about what the fuck?
[0:32:19 - 0:32:21] ▶
No, there's no asking questions.
[0:32:21 - 0:32:23] ▶
When you watch something, become transparent.
[0:32:24 - 0:32:27] ▶
And you realize it's still there, but you could now see through it.
[0:32:27 - 0:32:29] ▶
Yeah, I mean, no, that's not that impressive.
[0:32:29 - 0:32:32] ▶
We do have some liquid crystal materials that are like that.
[0:32:32 - 0:32:35] ▶
You know, they have some bathrooms.
[0:32:35 - 0:32:36] ▶
They have some bad ones.
[0:32:36 - 0:32:37] ▶
Yeah, they call it smart glass.
[0:32:37 - 0:32:39] ▶
So this is just, and I don't know if the craft is made of, you know, an advanced metal
[0:32:39 - 0:32:44] ▶
It was cold to the touch.
[0:32:45 - 0:32:47] ▶
So, you know, I would lean more towards a metal.
[0:32:47 - 0:32:50] ▶
You're not allowed to ask questions.
[0:32:50 - 0:32:52] ▶
They work on the buddy system.
[0:32:53 - 0:32:55] ▶
So I can only exchange ideas and talk to Barry.
[0:32:55 - 0:32:59] ▶
Now this really interferes with science because science is based on free discussion.
[0:32:59 - 0:33:04] ▶
And ideally, you get a bunch of guys together, exchange ideas, work on problems, and that's
[0:33:04 - 0:33:09] ▶
how things move forward.
[0:33:09 - 0:33:10] ▶
But they're so over the top concerned about security, they split everything off and everybody
[0:33:10 - 0:33:17] ▶
It just destroys any of the progress you can make or at least makes it go so slow.
[0:33:20 - 0:33:27] ▶
They, I think they wind up shooting themselves in the foot.
[0:33:27 - 0:33:29] ▶
Which is probably why they arrived at this bottleneck that they need to get this madman with
[0:33:29 - 0:33:35] ▶
a jet-powered Honda to come in and see what he could do.
[0:33:35 - 0:33:38] ▶
I think that was an active desperation.
[0:33:38 - 0:33:40] ▶
I think they wanted someone that thinks out of the box and let's just give this guy a
[0:33:40 - 0:33:44] ▶
try here because they weren't.
[0:33:44 - 0:33:46] ▶
They might have done this four more times, you know, up to the point in time today.
[0:33:46 - 0:33:51] ▶
Assuming they're still working on this thing.
[0:33:51 - 0:33:54] ▶
And when you see this craft and you're inside, was there any indication that there was
[0:33:54 - 0:34:01] ▶
an area that they would use to control it, to pilot?
[0:34:01 - 0:34:04] ▶
Was there a pilot seat?
[0:34:04 - 0:34:06] ▶
There were three seats.
[0:34:06 - 0:34:08] ▶
The reactor was in the dead center of it.
[0:34:09 - 0:34:13] ▶
And then, equidistant around there were three seats.
[0:34:13 - 0:34:16] ▶
There was a large, you would, they're not consoles.
[0:34:18 - 0:34:21] ▶
There are large rectangular objects, also spaced, equidistant around the center.
[0:34:21 - 0:34:27] ▶
There's nothing on them.
[0:34:27 - 0:34:28] ▶
Same color, the same thing.
[0:34:31 - 0:34:32] ▶
Everything is the same color.
[0:34:32 - 0:34:33] ▶
This is a different shape.
[0:34:33 - 0:34:34] ▶
And directly underneath them, there's three levels in the craft.
[0:34:35 - 0:34:40] ▶
The main level is what we're talking about directly under that.
[0:34:40 - 0:34:45] ▶
Those are the gravity amplifiers, the big rectangular objects.
[0:34:45 - 0:34:48] ▶
Underneath them are the gravity emitters that look like, for lack of a better word, a trash
[0:34:48 - 0:34:52] ▶
can hanging on a pipe.
[0:34:52 - 0:34:54] ▶
And then the top layer, this is just my personal belief.
[0:34:55 - 0:35:00] ▶
I think that has to do with a navigation or their version of a computer with some planer
[0:35:00 - 0:35:07] ▶
panels, sensor panels around the craft that we would call port holes, but they're not
[0:35:07 - 0:35:12] ▶
They're just black areas.
[0:35:13 - 0:35:14] ▶
And I think that just determines its position in space.
[0:35:14 - 0:35:19] ▶
But I was, I physically was in the center section and I stuck my torso in the bottom section
[0:35:19 - 0:35:25] ▶
and the hung upside down so I could see how the gravity amplifiers were positioned.
[0:35:25 - 0:35:30] ▶
What is the roughly the size of this thing?
[0:35:30 - 0:35:33] ▶
I don't remember from being there, but after all this stuff was over, I had John Andrews
[0:35:33 - 0:35:40] ▶
a guy from the tester's model corporation and we sat down and tried to figure out from
[0:35:40 - 0:35:46] ▶
what I saw and known sizes of things.
[0:35:46 - 0:35:51] ▶
And we came up with 52 feet in diameter.
[0:35:51 - 0:35:53] ▶
And I think that's a really small.
[0:35:53 - 0:35:56] ▶
So I think that's a fair, a reasonable guess.
[0:35:57 - 0:35:59] ▶
Now you said there's nine of them and you got a brief glimpse at the other ones.
[0:35:59 - 0:36:04] ▶
How are they different?
[0:36:04 - 0:36:06] ▶
They looked completely different.
[0:36:06 - 0:36:08] ▶
One looked like a, I called a Jell-O mold and it looked like a classic Jell-O mold with
[0:36:08 - 0:36:12] ▶
the rippled sides to it.
[0:36:12 - 0:36:14] ▶
One was a very flat disc, you know, like a straw hat or something like that.
[0:36:14 - 0:36:23] ▶
That was sitting up on its edge and the thin part of it had, it looked like a projectile
[0:36:23 - 0:36:28] ▶
had been fired through the edge of it.
[0:36:28 - 0:36:31] ▶
So I don't know if they were attempting to see if the metal could be penetrated or if
[0:36:31 - 0:36:37] ▶
that's where the thing came from, maybe it was shot down, but that was the only one where
[0:36:37 - 0:36:43] ▶
I saw that was, you know, actual physical damage to it.
[0:36:43 - 0:36:47] ▶
And that one was roughly the same size?
[0:36:47 - 0:36:49] ▶
They were kind of too far away to tell.
[0:36:49 - 0:36:53] ▶
And did there were several teams that were working on the propulsion systems, so there
[0:36:53 - 0:36:58] ▶
were different teams that were working on these different aircrafts?
[0:36:58 - 0:37:01] ▶
I could only assume.
[0:37:02 - 0:37:05] ▶
Now when you're sitting in this thing and you're looking at this otherworldly craft,
[0:37:05 - 0:37:13] ▶
your goal is to try to figure out how this thing functions.
[0:37:13 - 0:37:16] ▶
Your goal is to try to figure out how this reactor, I mean, it would imagine they would
[0:37:16 - 0:37:21] ▶
give you more time than just one day to check that out.
[0:37:21 - 0:37:24] ▶
Oh, it wasn't one day.
[0:37:24 - 0:37:26] ▶
Yeah, I mean, this is, Barry was there, I think Barry was sleeping there.
[0:37:26 - 0:37:31] ▶
I'm sure they had, that isn't weird.
[0:37:31 - 0:37:34] ▶
I mean, oh, but the Tone of Potester Angel, they work on stealth fighters.
[0:37:34 - 0:37:38] ▶
You go, I think, three weeks on, one week off, and you stay up there too.
[0:37:38 - 0:37:43] ▶
So it's not weird to stay up at the test site.
[0:37:43 - 0:37:45] ▶
So yeah, I think he pretty much acted like he's been up there for a long time.
[0:37:45 - 0:37:51] ▶
Do you have contact with this guy?
[0:37:55 - 0:37:56] ▶
I kind of thought he was going to come out after I did.
[0:37:58 - 0:38:03] ▶
And I think I took so much flack and it's so much shit for what went on.
[0:38:03 - 0:38:09] ▶
I think I actually wound up helping security there and everybody became afraid of doing
[0:38:09 - 0:38:15] ▶
or saying anything after that.
[0:38:15 - 0:38:17] ▶
So what kind of reports did you have to give?
[0:38:17 - 0:38:20] ▶
So you're not making much progress, right?
[0:38:20 - 0:38:22] ▶
You're just trying to figure out what this thing is and it seems impossible.
[0:38:22 - 0:38:26] ▶
Well, we didn't personally make them.
[0:38:26 - 0:38:27] ▶
I mean, we were always, there was never a lot of information that we gained.
[0:38:27 - 0:38:34] ▶
The guy, you would call him our supervisor, his name was Dennis Mariani, and kind of a
[0:38:34 - 0:38:40] ▶
military-looking guy.
[0:38:40 - 0:38:42] ▶
And he would routinely pop in, you know, during the day, and, you know, hey, what's going
[0:38:42 - 0:38:48] ▶
And he would essentially relay any information, anything new we came up with.
[0:38:49 - 0:38:53] ▶
I mean, he was our go-between, you know, where we presented him the information and then
[0:38:53 - 0:38:57] ▶
he took it to wherever they were, you know, assembling all the data from everybody.
[0:38:57 - 0:39:02] ▶
No, assuming you're working normal days, like an eight hour day?
[0:39:02 - 0:39:05] ▶
No, it was really weird that I would be only called in on certain times in certain days.
[0:39:07 - 0:39:12] ▶
And they would be weird hours, too.
[0:39:12 - 0:39:15] ▶
Most of the time was later in the evening.
[0:39:15 - 0:39:17] ▶
I mean, I can get a call at 11 o'clock at night, and they'll say, you know, it's now 11
[0:39:17 - 0:39:21] ▶
o'clock by 11.45, you need to be at the Macarron Terminal, and, you know, we'll let you know
[0:39:21 - 0:39:30] ▶
when we have more information.
[0:39:30 - 0:39:32] ▶
But what did you do while you were there?
[0:39:32 - 0:39:35] ▶
If you're looking at this object, this reactor, and you can't figure out what it is or how
[0:39:35 - 0:39:41] ▶
it works, other than the fact that it works on this element that we don't even know about.
[0:39:41 - 0:39:45] ▶
I mean, the thing was to, what you do with anything, if you're trying to analyze it,
[0:39:46 - 0:39:53] ▶
all you can do is perform tests.
[0:39:53 - 0:39:55] ▶
And all we did is try and come up with every kind of test we possibly could.
[0:39:55 - 0:40:00] ▶
I mean, we tested, you know, it violated a lot of what we thought was impossible to
[0:40:00 - 0:40:07] ▶
I mean, one of the first laws of thermodynamics, I mean, essentially any machine, any device
[0:40:08 - 0:40:13] ▶
that operates always makes extra heat.
[0:40:13 - 0:40:16] ▶
Nothing works at 100% efficient.
[0:40:16 - 0:40:19] ▶
Even the headphones you're wearing, anything that takes power, some of that power is going
[0:40:19 - 0:40:23] ▶
to be converted to heat, and it's just wasted.
[0:40:23 - 0:40:27] ▶
This didn't, I mean, we looked it back then we had infrared cameras.
[0:40:27 - 0:40:31] ▶
They're different today, but back then you had a poor liquid nitrogen into the camera to
[0:40:31 - 0:40:35] ▶
cool the sensor down and get these infrared images you've seen.
[0:40:35 - 0:40:41] ▶
But it never got no matter what the load was on the reactor, it never got above the ambient
[0:40:41 - 0:40:47] ▶
temperature, which is impossible.
[0:40:47 - 0:40:49] ▶
I mean, you're, you know, pulling out huge amounts of power and nothing ever gets warm.
[0:40:49 - 0:40:57] ▶
We tried measuring magnetic fields and there was nothing there.
[0:40:57 - 0:41:01] ▶
So we started playing around with the emission from the emitters, the gravity wave itself,
[0:41:01 - 0:41:07] ▶
and saw what we could do with it and how it was focused.
[0:41:07 - 0:41:11] ▶
So we really spent all our time just trying to see what the stuff can do and what we can
[0:41:11 - 0:41:18] ▶
So you were seeing what it could do, but you couldn't ever figure out how it was doing
[0:41:19 - 0:41:23] ▶
I mean, we really, we really could only use a, or come up with the best guess.
[0:41:25 - 0:41:30] ▶
Now, I can't say we really, that I could absolutely state for certainly, or certainly,
[0:41:30 - 0:41:38] ▶
how anything actually worked.
[0:41:38 - 0:41:40] ▶
Now, how did you know at all how they were piloting it?
[0:41:40 - 0:41:46] ▶
Because some, they were doing some tests where they're having these things fly around
[0:41:46 - 0:41:52] ▶
And this is what gets us deeper into your story.
[0:41:53 - 0:41:57] ▶
I was out there for one test, right?
[0:42:01 - 0:42:06] ▶
In fact, I was in, with Barry in the lab, and Dennis came in and said, we're about to
[0:42:06 - 0:42:12] ▶
Why don't you guys come out?
[0:42:13 - 0:42:14] ▶
Or I think he said, Barry, why don't you come out here and bring Bob with you?
[0:42:14 - 0:42:19] ▶
We went out there and the craft was already outside the hanger and was just preparing to
[0:42:19 - 0:42:26] ▶
Now, they were in communication with somebody in the craft.
[0:42:27 - 0:42:30] ▶
So there was a person in the craft?
[0:42:30 - 0:42:32] ▶
There was certainly a person in there.
[0:42:33 - 0:42:35] ▶
Now it's not a comfortable place to be in because it's small.
[0:42:35 - 0:42:38] ▶
So the guy has to be sitting on the floor in the middle, my best guess.
[0:42:38 - 0:42:42] ▶
And this is the same specific craft that you worked on.
[0:42:42 - 0:42:45] ▶
Yeah, that was because you were the, that was the only craft that you were in.
[0:42:45 - 0:42:47] ▶
The only one that I touched and worked on.
[0:42:47 - 0:42:51] ▶
And it quietly lifted off the ground, which was incredibly impressive to see.
[0:42:51 - 0:42:56] ▶
Quietly or silently?
[0:42:56 - 0:42:58] ▶
Well, quietly, because it produced...
[0:42:59 - 0:43:01] ▶
Did it make some sort of noise?
[0:43:01 - 0:43:03] ▶
It produced a little corona discharge from the bottom.
[0:43:03 - 0:43:08] ▶
A corona discharge is kind of a high-voltage brush, a little bluish glow discharge.
[0:43:08 - 0:43:13] ▶
As it was lifting off the ground, you can hear a slight hiss sound.
[0:43:13 - 0:43:16] ▶
Now, as soon as it cleared the ground by about five or ten feet, maybe even less than that,
[0:43:16 - 0:43:21] ▶
the hissing stopped and the blue go disappeared.
[0:43:21 - 0:43:23] ▶
So it lifted off quietly and then it hovered silently, if you want to be specific.
[0:43:23 - 0:43:29] ▶
So then what kind of maneuvers was it doing?
[0:43:30 - 0:43:33] ▶
It took, for that particular time, it took off, moved a little round to the left and right
[0:43:33 - 0:43:38] ▶
and then sat back down.
[0:43:38 - 0:43:42] ▶
The craft itself, they communicated with it with a reg, because I saw the guy talking
[0:43:42 - 0:43:52] ▶
in a regular VHF radio to the person in the craft.
[0:43:52 - 0:43:57] ▶
And I even saw the frequency, that was on the frequency counter of the communication, the
[0:43:57 - 0:44:03] ▶
But what's weird is he shouldn't be able to communicate with the craft with a radio.
[0:44:05 - 0:44:11] ▶
The radio wave should bend around the craft.
[0:44:11 - 0:44:15] ▶
I mean, it shouldn't be possible.
[0:44:15 - 0:44:17] ▶
Every single thing about the craft and the way they operated didn't make any sense to
[0:44:17 - 0:44:24] ▶
I mean, that's something we talked about for a while after.
[0:44:25 - 0:44:27] ▶
Why should the frequency bend around the craft?
[0:44:27 - 0:44:30] ▶
Well, you really have to look at the way the gravity wave comes out of the craft.
[0:44:30 - 0:44:35] ▶
There's the reactors in the center and there's a wave guide that goes up to the top.
[0:44:35 - 0:44:40] ▶
There's actually a small appendage that sticks out of the top of the craft and it produces
[0:44:40 - 0:44:44] ▶
a heart-shaped gravitational distortion around the craft.
[0:44:44 - 0:44:47] ▶
Now if the craft is sitting in the air and you walk underneath it and look up, you actually
[0:44:47 - 0:44:54] ▶
cannot see the craft.
[0:44:54 - 0:44:56] ▶
The light bends around it.
[0:44:56 - 0:44:58] ▶
Your bending gravity bends light.
[0:44:58 - 0:45:00] ▶
It bends radio waves.
[0:45:00 - 0:45:04] ▶
It shouldn't be possible to communicate with a craft that has an envelope around it that's
[0:45:04 - 0:45:09] ▶
distorting all forms of energy, but they were apparently in contact with it.
[0:45:09 - 0:45:15] ▶
Somehow or another through some unexplained way that they can bother explaining to you.
[0:45:15 - 0:45:21] ▶
So this thing gets up, but just does some very simple maneuvers.
[0:45:21 - 0:45:24] ▶
Left, right, left, right goes down.
[0:45:24 - 0:45:27] ▶
Did they discuss this with you?
[0:45:27 - 0:45:29] ▶
I mean, they said they wanted you to see it.
[0:45:29 - 0:45:30] ▶
They just wanted, no, they didn't discuss anything with me.
[0:45:30 - 0:45:34] ▶
We looked around for a bit and Barry said, let's go back, we went back and the lab.
[0:45:36 - 0:45:39] ▶
All we got to do was see it.
[0:45:39 - 0:45:43] ▶
Fast forward to some months later, I did have the test flight schedule of the craft.
[0:45:43 - 0:45:50] ▶
Now they had times, they had designated high performance tests.
[0:45:50 - 0:45:54] ▶
This obviously wasn't one that was a high performance test.
[0:45:54 - 0:45:59] ▶
The high performance test went, goes above the mountain range and they do much more radical
[0:45:59 - 0:46:04] ▶
moves with the thing.
[0:46:04 - 0:46:05] ▶
Look, this is a prized item and they're not doing anything like taking it out of the atmosphere
[0:46:05 - 0:46:11] ▶
of flying around other countries or anything like that.
[0:46:11 - 0:46:14] ▶
They just play with this thing right over the test site, but they were doing some radical
[0:46:14 - 0:46:18] ▶
I had the test flight schedule statistically, the amount of traffic in the surrounding
[0:46:20 - 0:46:28] ▶
areas on the highway was lowest on Wednesdays and that's why Dennis told us that all the
[0:46:28 - 0:46:34] ▶
test flights occurred only on Wednesdays because it'd be the least chance that anyone would
[0:46:34 - 0:46:40] ▶
see what's going on.
[0:46:40 - 0:46:42] ▶
This was before the government had expanded the forbidden territory around area 51 and
[0:46:42 - 0:46:49] ▶
Papu Slake and all that stuff, right?
[0:46:49 - 0:46:51] ▶
Yeah, I think that occurred after my story came out, then people started going up on the
[0:46:51 - 0:46:57] ▶
mountain tops and trying to look down into there and they kind of freaked out and then
[0:46:57 - 0:47:01] ▶
did the land grab and pushed everybody back.
[0:47:01 - 0:47:05] ▶
I think all that occurred long after I was great that I came out.
[0:47:05 - 0:47:11] ▶
So you're working there and while you're working there, you're under this crazy schedule.
[0:47:11 - 0:47:16] ▶
Forgive me for explaining your story, but you would get these phone calls.
[0:47:16 - 0:47:22] ▶
You would have to go to the airport at 11 p.m. and your wife started thinking that you
[0:47:22 - 0:47:29] ▶
were having an affair.
[0:47:29 - 0:47:30] ▶
Yeah, apparently so.
[0:47:30 - 0:47:33] ▶
Now I did give my permission to have, as part of the security clearance process, I gave
[0:47:33 - 0:47:42] ▶
written permission to have the phones monitored and things of that sort.
[0:47:42 - 0:47:45] ▶
They weren't doing any covert stuff.
[0:47:45 - 0:47:49] ▶
With any cute clearance, which is civilian top secret clearance or military top secret
[0:47:49 - 0:47:55] ▶
clearance, they go talk to friends and places you've been, make sure you're not connected
[0:47:55 - 0:48:00] ▶
to foreign countries, but monitoring your phone is nothing unusual.
[0:48:00 - 0:48:05] ▶
However, they insisted that you don't even talk to your loved one to your partner, to
[0:48:05 - 0:48:12] ▶
your wife, whatever about what's going on.
[0:48:12 - 0:48:14] ▶
So she was essentially in the dark and didn't know the phone was being monitored.
[0:48:14 - 0:48:20] ▶
Well, part of the security clearance is that not only you not have any connections to foreign
[0:48:20 - 0:48:26] ▶
countries and aren't a maniac, but you have to have a stable home life, too.
[0:48:26 - 0:48:31] ▶
Well, she started having an affair with a flight instructor.
[0:48:31 - 0:48:35] ▶
Now they were monitoring this on the phone and they knew it and I didn't.
[0:48:35 - 0:48:39] ▶
So they stopped me coming in and their attitude at the time was, we need to see how this
[0:48:39 - 0:48:46] ▶
is going to play out and if Lazar is going to get a little weird or anything.
[0:48:46 - 0:48:51] ▶
So let's just hold them off from coming in and see what happens.
[0:48:51 - 0:48:58] ▶
And they explained this to you, what was happening?
[0:48:58 - 0:49:00] ▶
Well, after the fact, yeah, because time kind of went on and there were guys that were following
[0:49:00 - 0:49:06] ▶
me around and I started getting a little concerned going, well, Chitter, they booting me out
[0:49:06 - 0:49:13] ▶
of the project and if so, they're not just going to let me hang out at home and go get
[0:49:13 - 0:49:18] ▶
a new job, no one would know.
[0:49:18 - 0:49:21] ▶
So as time went on, I started getting a little concerned and I took my closest friends
[0:49:21 - 0:49:27] ▶
and just kind of got together and I said, hey, remember that job I told you about this
[0:49:27 - 0:49:33] ▶
You don't need to take my word for it.
[0:49:36 - 0:49:39] ▶
Wednesday night, we need to all go out here.
[0:49:39 - 0:49:41] ▶
I want to show you what's going on.
[0:49:41 - 0:49:42] ▶
So I took everybody and we went out to, remember, since I had the test flight schedule and went
[0:49:42 - 0:49:49] ▶
outside the base out into the desert and so everybody could see one of the high performance
[0:49:49 - 0:49:55] ▶
test and left quite an imprint on everybody so they knew I wasn't.
[0:49:55 - 0:50:01] ▶
And there's videos of these tests, right?
[0:50:01 - 0:50:03] ▶
Yeah, but remember, this isn't the...
[0:50:03 - 0:50:05] ▶
It's in the dark in the 80s of the big monster size camcorder and you got a bright light
[0:50:05 - 0:50:10] ▶
jumping around, but yeah, I mean, we did video of it, but there's no, by today's standards.
[0:50:10 - 0:50:17] ▶
But is your video specifically available, the video that you took?
[0:50:17 - 0:50:21] ▶
Well, George Napp has it.
[0:50:21 - 0:50:23] ▶
Yeah, I show clips a bit in my film.
[0:50:26 - 0:50:27] ▶
It's online and someone did a deep analysis of it.
[0:50:27 - 0:50:30] ▶
It was interesting to take a look at how...
[0:50:30 - 0:50:33] ▶
Well, this microphone on two-faced.
[0:50:33 - 0:50:34] ▶
Can you do about a fist from your face?
[0:50:34 - 0:50:36] ▶
You know, to see how his video looks now, but as far as video evidence, I mean, we are
[0:50:37 - 0:50:42] ▶
talking 80s campers.
[0:50:42 - 0:50:43] ▶
And the most important thing is the human story here.
[0:50:43 - 0:50:46] ▶
Everybody that he took up there on three separate occasions, they don't all like each
[0:50:46 - 0:50:50] ▶
other, they don't all talk, they all agree on one thing.
[0:50:50 - 0:50:54] ▶
They saw something that night at the exact point in time and space that Bob was our
[0:50:54 - 0:50:57] ▶
And remember, this is 17, 15, 17 miles south of Air 51.
[0:50:58 - 0:51:02] ▶
No one even knew really about Air 51.
[0:51:02 - 0:51:04] ▶
We're talking Papu Slake and they all agree.
[0:51:04 - 0:51:06] ▶
They saw something that night they had never seen before and they've never seen sense
[0:51:06 - 0:51:10] ▶
right when he said it.
[0:51:10 - 0:51:11] ▶
So that's one of the six things where I'm like, how did he know?
[0:51:11 - 0:51:15] ▶
You can dismiss him.
[0:51:15 - 0:51:16] ▶
I tried to dismiss it, but some things we can't get around.
[0:51:16 - 0:51:19] ▶
And there's about five or six of them.
[0:51:19 - 0:51:21] ▶
How did he know about those?
[0:51:21 - 0:51:22] ▶
If Jeremy wants to find that video right now, what would he look under?
[0:51:22 - 0:51:25] ▶
Bob Lazar, UFO, S4, Air 51, just kind of like that.
[0:51:25 - 0:51:32] ▶
So it's like the S4 UFO video Bob Lazar and a guy doesn't analysis, but you're analyzing
[0:51:32 - 0:51:38] ▶
From the very beginning, Bob never said, I have proof of my story and I'm going to tell
[0:51:41 - 0:51:45] ▶
He said at the very beginning, I cannot prove my story.
[0:51:46 - 0:51:50] ▶
That's not why I'm telling this.
[0:51:50 - 0:51:52] ▶
George Nopp convinced him to tell people and he lived through it.
[0:51:52 - 0:51:55] ▶
I didn't believe it either until I talked with George.
[0:51:55 - 0:51:59] ▶
So you filmed this test flight, one test flight and then you get caught.
[0:52:00 - 0:52:07] ▶
Actually it was, I think, the third time because we went out there the first time.
[0:52:07 - 0:52:14] ▶
Everybody was amazed because it did some radical maneuvers and everybody had a lot of
[0:52:15 - 0:52:20] ▶
When I've seen the video, I don't think there's something we have now that does that.
[0:52:21 - 0:52:26] ▶
In terms of a human piloted craft, I don't know, obviously with the government.
[0:52:26 - 0:52:32] ▶
No, it's impossible.
[0:52:32 - 0:52:33] ▶
Nothing can move like that.
[0:52:33 - 0:52:34] ▶
And remember, we didn't start filming from the very beginning.
[0:52:34 - 0:52:39] ▶
We were waiting for something to happen.
[0:52:39 - 0:52:41] ▶
The craft took off and then came flying at us, stopped, turned at a triangle, flew back
[0:52:41 - 0:52:46] ▶
and then after it did some amazing stuff, to get the camera.
[0:52:46 - 0:52:50] ▶
And then we started filming.
[0:52:50 - 0:52:51] ▶
So it doesn't have all of it on there, it just has some.
[0:52:51 - 0:52:54] ▶
The way I described it to my friends and they said, I said, take a laser pointer and
[0:52:54 - 0:52:59] ▶
then have a wall and then move it around the wall.
[0:52:59 - 0:53:02] ▶
You know how it moves around the wall?
[0:53:02 - 0:53:03] ▶
It doesn't seem like it has anything to do with a nurse show or physics or it's not
[0:53:03 - 0:53:07] ▶
impeded in any way by the atmosphere.
[0:53:07 - 0:53:09] ▶
That's what it looked like.
[0:53:10 - 0:53:11] ▶
It's separated from reality as crazy as that sounds.
[0:53:11 - 0:53:15] ▶
With being in case it's own gravitational envelope, inertia is not going to affect it.
[0:53:15 - 0:53:22] ▶
And you know, this is how some of those recent sightings with Commander David Fraver, I'm
[0:53:22 - 0:53:28] ▶
sure you've heard of the TECC UFO.
[0:53:28 - 0:53:31] ▶
I mean, he describes exactly the thing operates exactly the way I was describing.
[0:53:31 - 0:53:36] ▶
That's why he was interested to talk to me.
[0:53:36 - 0:53:40] ▶
But we saw this and you know, on the way home, it's like, hey, we got away with it.
[0:53:40 - 0:53:46] ▶
We should try it again the next test flight date.
[0:53:46 - 0:53:49] ▶
So this became a thing to do.
[0:53:49 - 0:53:51] ▶
And I think it was on the third time that we got caught.
[0:53:51 - 0:53:55] ▶
I mean, we started becoming a little careless.
[0:53:55 - 0:53:58] ▶
I think we took a motor home out there.
[0:53:58 - 0:54:01] ▶
You know, I mean, it was like this stupidest thing you could possibly have.
[0:54:01 - 0:54:04] ▶
It was real, it was real.
[0:54:04 - 0:54:05] ▶
Yeah, it was ridiculous.
[0:54:05 - 0:54:07] ▶
And again, you're in your 20s.
[0:54:07 - 0:54:09] ▶
You know, what was funny was we went out there and my friend, Gene Huff and I, we're
[0:54:10 - 0:54:17] ▶
leaning on the front of a vehicle.
[0:54:17 - 0:54:19] ▶
And just for some reason, we just started talking shit.
[0:54:19 - 0:54:24] ▶
Like, well, I hope they realize that I don't remember what we were saying, but you know,
[0:54:24 - 0:54:32] ▶
that something about attacking the base or something along those lines and stealing the
[0:54:32 - 0:54:37] ▶
craft or something like that.
[0:54:37 - 0:54:39] ▶
And then about 20 feet in front of us, we see a little green light fall on the ground
[0:54:40 - 0:54:46] ▶
and roll to us and unbeknownst to us.
[0:54:46 - 0:54:49] ▶
Now it's pitch black.
[0:54:49 - 0:54:50] ▶
You can't see your hand in front of your face.
[0:54:50 - 0:54:52] ▶
There were a bunch of guards standing right out there and they had a night vision scope
[0:54:52 - 0:54:56] ▶
where they were like from here to the wall looking at us, listening to us and the guy
[0:54:56 - 0:55:00] ▶
dropped it and the scope rolled over to us and you could see the green screen.
[0:55:00 - 0:55:04] ▶
You know, we turned the lights on and all these guys are there.
[0:55:04 - 0:55:07] ▶
So we did incredibly stupid stuff and got caught as we should have because of this.
[0:55:10 - 0:55:13] ▶
So when they catch you and they bring you in, then what happens?
[0:55:13 - 0:55:16] ▶
Well, I went in for debriefing.
[0:55:16 - 0:55:19] ▶
The following day, I went to Indian Springs Air Force Base, which is kind of a defunct
[0:55:19 - 0:55:24] ▶
base that they used to use at the nuclear test site.
[0:55:24 - 0:55:28] ▶
And this is when they brought out the transcript of the phone call with my wife.
[0:55:28 - 0:55:37] ▶
And they sat me down and we said, you know, when we meant to keep the secret, we meant
[0:55:37 - 0:55:42] ▶
you can't tell your friends, right?
[0:55:42 - 0:55:44] ▶
And it just being sarcastic and trying to.
[0:55:44 - 0:55:48] ▶
And then they got real serious.
[0:55:48 - 0:55:50] ▶
But this is where they took the transcript out and were reading me what my wife and our
[0:55:50 - 0:55:59] ▶
friend were talking about.
[0:55:59 - 0:56:01] ▶
And it was a hard time.
[0:56:01 - 0:56:04] ▶
So what happens from there?
[0:56:04 - 0:56:08] ▶
What do they do with you?
[0:56:08 - 0:56:09] ▶
Why don't they arrest you?
[0:56:09 - 0:56:10] ▶
I'm not sure they exactly, they knew what to do.
[0:56:13 - 0:56:16] ▶
But they did let me go that night and I went home.
[0:56:16 - 0:56:21] ▶
And this is kind of when the most stressful part started.
[0:56:21 - 0:56:24] ▶
Because you're realizing that you're being monitored.
[0:56:24 - 0:56:26] ▶
Now I know, not only am I being monitored, but now I know I'm in trouble.
[0:56:27 - 0:56:31] ▶
And it wasn't a short time after that that I contacted, you know, at that time, the only
[0:56:31 - 0:56:37] ▶
investigative reporter I had heard of in Las Vegas was George NAP and you know, told him
[0:56:37 - 0:56:43] ▶
some of the story because I had no idea what the hell was going to happen at that point.
[0:56:43 - 0:56:47] ▶
So George NAP tries to dissect your story, tries to find holes in it, tells it, puts it
[0:56:47 - 0:56:55] ▶
online and makes everybody aware of it and that's how I found out about it.
[0:56:55 - 0:56:58] ▶
To make a long story short.
[0:56:59 - 0:57:01] ▶
Yeah, I'm going to really make a long story short.
[0:57:02 - 0:57:03] ▶
What happens from there on?
[0:57:03 - 0:57:05] ▶
I mean, do they contact you and say, hey, Bob, it's probably a good idea if you shut up.
[0:57:05 - 0:57:11] ▶
Did they try to label you as crazy?
[0:57:12 - 0:57:15] ▶
There were a lot of things that happened at, you know, between that point.
[0:57:17 - 0:57:23] ▶
I'm leaving out a lot of stuff to fill in the story.
[0:57:23 - 0:57:28] ▶
We'd have to go back to Los Alamos and, well, I really don't want to talk about that.
[0:57:28 - 0:57:35] ▶
The top secret weapons stuff that you weren't working on.
[0:57:35 - 0:57:41] ▶
No, I'm talking about the 115.
[0:57:41 - 0:57:43] ▶
I have to think about how I'd...
[0:57:46 - 0:57:49] ▶
What is the problem?
[0:57:49 - 0:57:50] ▶
I don't want to get myself into more trouble by admitting something.
[0:57:50 - 0:57:56] ▶
So I just have to dance around a couple.
[0:57:56 - 0:58:00] ▶
He was great at just during the filming of the movie.
[0:58:00 - 0:58:02] ▶
People thought it was great, by the way.
[0:58:02 - 0:58:04] ▶
It's on Netflix right now, if anybody wants to check it out.
[0:58:05 - 0:58:08] ▶
If you're one of those people like me who, you know, I've always loved the idea of UFOs.
[0:58:08 - 0:58:14] ▶
I became extremely weary talking to people who are UFO believers and UFO fanatics because
[0:58:14 - 0:58:20] ▶
there's so many of them that are full of shit.
[0:58:20 - 0:58:22] ▶
Not just full of shit, they're childishly delirious.
[0:58:22 - 0:58:27] ▶
The way they talk about things, I mean, there's so many people that are...
[0:58:27 - 0:58:30] ▶
That I'm in contact.
[0:58:30 - 0:58:32] ▶
They reach me in the night and they explain to me what we're doing to the ocean is wrong
[0:58:32 - 0:58:36] ▶
and like you're like, okay.
[0:58:36 - 0:58:38] ▶
This is one of the reasons I didn't want to do the show.
[0:58:38 - 0:58:41] ▶
We've had people literally camp out on our front lawn.
[0:58:46 - 0:58:52] ▶
And some ways I can relate to some of these people.
[0:58:52 - 0:58:54] ▶
Maybe some of them did really have some kind of experience or saw something and all their
[0:58:54 - 0:58:59] ▶
friends think they're crazy.
[0:58:59 - 0:59:00] ▶
But hey, now there's this guy I heard on the radio and at least he knows I'm not full
[0:59:00 - 0:59:06] ▶
So I got to talk to him.
[0:59:07 - 0:59:08] ▶
And so most of the correspondence I get are people trying to get a hold of me going,
[0:59:08 - 0:59:12] ▶
Bob, you gotta listen to me.
[0:59:12 - 0:59:14] ▶
I'm coming to talk to you.
[0:59:14 - 0:59:16] ▶
I'm driving from Oklahoma or whatever.
[0:59:16 - 0:59:20] ▶
But some of them are just fucking bad shit crazy under their frightening hands.
[0:59:20 - 0:59:24] ▶
There's a lot of skits of friends that are involved in the conspiracy world.
[0:59:24 - 0:59:28] ▶
So there's a lot of people that have real issues.
[0:59:28 - 0:59:30] ▶
Joe, it would be a disservice to your audience to not say that we have to look at what's
[0:59:30 - 0:59:37] ▶
going on now and understand.
[0:59:37 - 0:59:38] ▶
I've heard it on your show a bunch of stuff about what's going on now and to not really
[0:59:38 - 0:59:43] ▶
understand what's going on now, you can't see Bob's story in the correct light after
[0:59:43 - 0:59:48] ▶
At some point we should just touch upon that.
[0:59:49 - 0:59:53] ▶
The biggest being that things like the TickTack UFO case that came out, I've heard people
[0:59:53 - 0:59:58] ▶
even on the show say, oh there's a glitch in the radar.
[0:59:58 - 1:00:02] ▶
That's a data poor perspective.
[1:00:02 - 1:00:04] ▶
You just don't know yet what's really going on.
[1:00:04 - 1:00:06] ▶
Commander Fraver, I was able to get the interview with him to talk with him way before it became
[1:00:06 - 1:00:10] ▶
I got that from him.
[1:00:11 - 1:00:13] ▶
Other pilots saw it.
[1:00:14 - 1:00:15] ▶
This is a big thing that's going on right now.
[1:00:15 - 1:00:18] ▶
They had more sightings on the East Coast recently, cubes with spherical, or these are
[1:00:18 - 1:00:23] ▶
not aerodynamic and these are the people we trust to defend us on 9-11.
[1:00:23 - 1:00:27] ▶
Commander Fraver protected Los Angeles on 9-11.
[1:00:27 - 1:00:30] ▶
We trust them but they're not trained observers.
[1:00:30 - 1:00:33] ▶
Radar, individuals, see these things and the big one, just to throw it down so we can consider
[1:00:33 - 1:00:38] ▶
a story a little differently.
[1:00:38 - 1:00:39] ▶
There's more depth to it.
[1:00:39 - 1:00:40] ▶
The big one is the United States government has admitted that they have been continuously
[1:00:40 - 1:00:45] ▶
studying the UFO phenomenon.
[1:00:45 - 1:00:47] ▶
That program was called ASAP.
[1:00:47 - 1:00:54] ▶
That's the mother program.
[1:00:54 - 1:00:56] ▶
George Napp got that out.
[1:00:56 - 1:00:57] ▶
They announced it in New York Times about ASAP.
[1:00:57 - 1:01:00] ▶
But ASAP, these acronyms, ASAP, advanced aerospace, weapons systems, applications program.
[1:01:00 - 1:01:05] ▶
That was the mother program.
[1:01:06 - 1:01:07] ▶
They've admitted we didn't stop studying UFOs in 1969 with Project Blue Book.
[1:01:07 - 1:01:11] ▶
We don't think it's crazy.
[1:01:11 - 1:01:12] ▶
We're actually want to reverse engineer the technology.
[1:01:12 - 1:01:15] ▶
That's why on your other show, you said, what's this AAV?
[1:01:15 - 1:01:17] ▶
It's like they're making up another UFO name.
[1:01:17 - 1:01:20] ▶
Well, hold on, there's a reason.
[1:01:20 - 1:01:21] ▶
Because in the documents, the DIA documents that George Napp released, that everybody said
[1:01:21 - 1:01:26] ▶
was fake till now they know is real, they call them AAVs, which is advanced aerospace vehicles.
[1:01:26 - 1:01:34] ▶
People are getting the acronyms wrong.
[1:01:34 - 1:01:35] ▶
So the reason for the terminology change is so that we can mimic what we're reading in
[1:01:35 - 1:01:40] ▶
People can look for that now.
[1:01:41 - 1:01:42] ▶
So they changed the names to get people away from UFO or UAP, even like Hillary Clinton
[1:01:42 - 1:01:47] ▶
So what are you talking about?
[1:01:49 - 1:01:50] ▶
Hillary Clinton's on air.
[1:01:50 - 1:01:51] ▶
Hillary Clinton informed the public on Jimmy Kimmel.
[1:01:51 - 1:01:55] ▶
Oh, Jimmy, we don't call them UFOs anymore.
[1:01:55 - 1:01:58] ▶
We call them UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomenon.
[1:01:58 - 1:02:02] ▶
So she kind of was giving, the Clintons are very into the UFO topic, Senator Reed.
[1:02:02 - 1:02:08] ▶
He's done a lot for the subject, the study of it.
[1:02:08 - 1:02:11] ▶
So she informed the public so they could look for the right term.
[1:02:11 - 1:02:14] ▶
So these terms are important because the DIA, in those documents, they've been calling
[1:02:14 - 1:02:19] ▶
them AAVs for quite some time now.
[1:02:19 - 1:02:22] ▶
And they changed the name to anomalous.
[1:02:22 - 1:02:24] ▶
No, that's kind of misnome.
[1:02:24 - 1:02:27] ▶
So they always mess around with things, but it's actually advanced.
[1:02:27 - 1:02:31] ▶
And they're describing it in the news.
[1:02:32 - 1:02:33] ▶
They were calling it anomalous aerospace vehicles.
[1:02:33 - 1:02:36] ▶
Totally, and that's cool.
[1:02:36 - 1:02:37] ▶
They were also saying anomalous aerospace threats, AAT, right?
[1:02:37 - 1:02:41] ▶
Because they want the sense of a threat.
[1:02:41 - 1:02:43] ▶
So my point is, if people don't know this now, and they think this stuff is fantasy,
[1:02:43 - 1:02:48] ▶
this part of it that we're studying it, that we take it seriously, we're spending money
[1:02:48 - 1:02:52] ▶
on it, and that we're getting great data from visual pilots to radar.
[1:02:52 - 1:02:56] ▶
That's why we know it's aerospace.
[1:02:56 - 1:02:58] ▶
They dropped from 80,000 feet.
[1:02:58 - 1:03:00] ▶
That's the top scope of the Spy One radar is 80,000 feet.
[1:03:01 - 1:03:05] ▶
So the radar system they were using, it was coming from above that.
[1:03:05 - 1:03:08] ▶
So my point is this.
[1:03:08 - 1:03:10] ▶
If you don't understand that this is happening, you're just behind the curve because you don't
[1:03:10 - 1:03:15] ▶
have the information because of the stigma that you're talking about.
[1:03:15 - 1:03:18] ▶
I saw you get totally upset with the UFO topic.
[1:03:18 - 1:03:21] ▶
I met you first when you go totally upset with the UFO topic.
[1:03:21 - 1:03:24] ▶
When you're doing your...
[1:03:26 - 1:03:27] ▶
When you're doing your show, the Joe Morgan questions everything, I could see how frustrating
[1:03:29 - 1:03:36] ▶
How luckily my mentor is George Napp and he's taught me the pitfalls as I went through
[1:03:38 - 1:03:42] ▶
My whole point in this rant right here is just that we have to now look at Bob's story,
[1:03:43 - 1:03:48] ▶
but knowing the facts, not someone saying it's a bird, it's a plane, it's a glitch, they're
[1:03:48 - 1:03:54] ▶
So if you don't know that, you just don't have the information yet.
[1:03:55 - 1:03:58] ▶
Knowing the facts as we know him in 2019, not in 1988.
[1:03:59 - 1:04:02] ▶
And so what is he said that has come true?
[1:04:03 - 1:04:06] ▶
He's totally unimpressed with it.
[1:04:06 - 1:04:08] ▶
What has he said that's come true?
[1:04:08 - 1:04:09] ▶
So I was like, Bob, they've announced gravity as a wave.
[1:04:09 - 1:04:13] ▶
You were right, man, you're vindicated.
[1:04:13 - 1:04:15] ▶
And he looks at me and he's like, well, if you think about it Jeremy, I had like a 50-50
[1:04:15 - 1:04:19] ▶
He was not very impressed, right?
[1:04:20 - 1:04:22] ▶
But under they announced gravity as a wave.
[1:04:22 - 1:04:25] ▶
So they detected in a sense, they detected gravity waves.
[1:04:25 - 1:04:28] ▶
There's two black holes that were colliding and that's how they were able to detect.
[1:04:31 - 1:04:34] ▶
Yeah, somebody built, I don't know which group it was or what part of the government.
[1:04:34 - 1:04:39] ▶
That's what Google's for.
[1:04:39 - 1:04:40] ▶
But they built a gigantic gravity wave detector and pretty much detected.
[1:04:41 - 1:04:48] ▶
There are such things as gravity waves.
[1:04:48 - 1:04:50] ▶
First observation of gravitational waves.
[1:04:50 - 1:04:53] ▶
It says it was in 2016.
[1:04:53 - 1:04:56] ▶
Okay, the first observation of gravitational waves was made on 14th September 2015, as
[1:04:56 - 1:05:01] ▶
announced by the LIGO and Virgo Collaborators on 11th of February 2016, previously gravitational
[1:05:01 - 1:05:09] ▶
waves had only been inferred indirectly via their effect on the timing of pulsars and binary
[1:05:09 - 1:05:15] ▶
Da, da, da, da, da, the waveform connected by both LIGO, LIGO observatories matched to
[1:05:16 - 1:05:24] ▶
predictions of general relativity for a gravitational wave emanating from the inward, I'm trying
[1:05:24 - 1:05:35] ▶
to get this, from the inward spiral and merger of a pair of black holes around 36 and 29 solar
[1:05:35 - 1:05:41] ▶
masses and the subsequent ring down of the single resulting black hole.
[1:05:41 - 1:05:47] ▶
Well, that, I mean, yes, no.
[1:05:47 - 1:05:49] ▶
In the 80s, the predominant theory was gravity is produced by gravitons, you know, theoretical
[1:05:49 - 1:05:57] ▶
particles, but they're not, they're waves, they're not particles.
[1:05:57 - 1:06:01] ▶
So, the thought is that the way we experience gravity is based on mass, which is why the
[1:06:02 - 1:06:08] ▶
moon, which is roughly one quarter the size of the earth has one sixth of the earth's gravity,
[1:06:08 - 1:06:13] ▶
so there's some sort of a computation you can make based on mass.
[1:06:13 - 1:06:16] ▶
However, we can observe the effects of gravity, but we have no idea what it is.
[1:06:17 - 1:06:24] ▶
All we can do is observe it and we can't make it.
[1:06:24 - 1:06:27] ▶
The only way you can make gravity is just put more mass together and it's just a product
[1:06:27 - 1:06:31] ▶
But if you can make a, if you have a machine that makes gravity, you can pretty much do
[1:06:32 - 1:06:38] ▶
You can affect time, you can have force fields, all that stuff that's in science fiction
[1:06:39 - 1:06:44] ▶
If you have a machine that can make gravity and what we worked on in the desert was a machine
[1:06:45 - 1:06:51] ▶
I love your analogy of dropping off a small nuclear reactor to the Victorian era.
[1:06:53 - 1:06:58] ▶
I love that analogy because back then that was impossible, that was magic.
[1:06:58 - 1:07:05] ▶
What you're talking about here, the fact that they just discovered this four years ago,
[1:07:05 - 1:07:10] ▶
that this is a wave.
[1:07:10 - 1:07:11] ▶
And we're as much as we know and as impressed as we are as we should be with how much more
[1:07:11 - 1:07:17] ▶
technologically advanced we are than every other creature on this planet.
[1:07:17 - 1:07:21] ▶
We're still in many ways in the adolescence of technological innovation.
[1:07:21 - 1:07:25] ▶
If even adolescents.
[1:07:27 - 1:07:29] ▶
And when you're talking about this binary star system, Zeta Reticuli, and who knows how
[1:07:29 - 1:07:36] ▶
much longer these things have been around than us, who knows what their evolutionary cycle
[1:07:36 - 1:07:41] ▶
has been, who knows what we might be talking about something that's a million years more
[1:07:41 - 1:07:45] ▶
Yeah, it could easily be.
[1:07:46 - 1:07:48] ▶
Now, I'm not in, believe it or not, I'm not into UFOs, I don't follow those stories or
[1:07:48 - 1:07:54] ▶
you know, even after your experiences.
[1:07:54 - 1:07:56] ▶
No, I'm fascinated with the technology and it really, it irks me like every night I go
[1:07:56 - 1:08:02] ▶
to sleep that, you know, I don't, that it was my own doing essentially that prevented
[1:08:02 - 1:08:10] ▶
me from continuing on in the project.
[1:08:10 - 1:08:12] ▶
I mean, it's the, to be on that cutting edge of technology is so alluring to me.
[1:08:12 - 1:08:18] ▶
But you know, by the same token, I don't really care that there's aliens or where they come
[1:08:18 - 1:08:24] ▶
I mean, the prize is the technology and that's what I'm fascinated by.
[1:08:25 - 1:08:28] ▶
But so I don't listen to UFO stories and that sort of thing.
[1:08:28 - 1:08:31] ▶
But George NAP is, I mean, he's the guy that has the context and tries to thread everything
[1:08:31 - 1:08:37] ▶
And what he recently told me is he found, I don't know, is either documentation or people
[1:08:38 - 1:08:44] ▶
that he spoke to, it's at this, the existence of this project, the project that I was on.
[1:08:44 - 1:08:49] ▶
It's something that they seem to take out every eight or ten years.
[1:08:49 - 1:08:55] ▶
So that's a very specific memo and this is actually, this is the first time I'll be very
[1:08:55 - 1:08:59] ▶
clear with people about it.
[1:08:59 - 1:09:00] ▶
It's a big topic of conversation right now.
[1:09:00 - 1:09:03] ▶
It's called the Wilson memo.
[1:09:03 - 1:09:04] ▶
Admiral Wilson met with a scientist who's actually was featured in one of my films.
[1:09:06 - 1:09:12] ▶
Everybody has been debating whether or not this document of a conversation with a, with
[1:09:12 - 1:09:18] ▶
a sitting Admiral at the time is a real document.
[1:09:18 - 1:09:21] ▶
It's an actual conversation that happened and this document is right.
[1:09:21 - 1:09:24] ▶
Everybody wants another world that's going crazy right now in the UFO world.
[1:09:24 - 1:09:27] ▶
I'll tell you straight up right now, I'm in the position to know and it is a real document
[1:09:27 - 1:09:33] ▶
So the conversation you read in that, that conversation was had.
[1:09:35 - 1:09:39] ▶
I can't attest to every, but you're not being very clear.
[1:09:39 - 1:09:42] ▶
So there was a document that is circulating right now that is really big.
[1:09:44 - 1:09:47] ▶
It's going around everywhere.
[1:09:47 - 1:09:48] ▶
People are asking and wondering what is this document.
[1:09:48 - 1:09:50] ▶
It's called the Wilson memo is what, how you can find it online.
[1:09:50 - 1:09:55] ▶
The Wilson memorandum.
[1:09:58 - 1:09:59] ▶
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[1:10:00 - 1:10:02] ▶
So Admiral Wilson meets with this scientist and they have this discussion oddly enough
[1:10:03 - 1:10:09] ▶
at special projects at EG&G.
[1:10:09 - 1:10:11] ▶
And if I remember the document is from 2001, I'm telling everybody right now, it's real.
[1:10:11 - 1:10:16] ▶
And we'll see, my history is pretty good with like saying if something is real or not,
[1:10:16 - 1:10:19] ▶
The document comes out.
[1:10:21 - 1:10:22] ▶
They meet at EG&G special projects.
[1:10:22 - 1:10:24] ▶
In 1989, they stumble into a problem.
[1:10:24 - 1:10:28] ▶
This happens, they put the technology away and then they bring it back out and see if
[1:10:28 - 1:10:33] ▶
material science has caught up and if they can make any progress.
[1:10:33 - 1:10:37] ▶
So this document kind of talks about this process.
[1:10:37 - 1:10:40] ▶
The big thing I get from it and a lot of it's vindicating to Bob.
[1:10:40 - 1:10:43] ▶
And one of the things that's vindicating besides the EG&G thing is that private industry.
[1:10:43 - 1:10:49] ▶
So this guy's an Admiral and he says, I found out about your SAP, your special access program.
[1:10:49 - 1:10:55] ▶
I need to know about it and he's going to a private part of industry and he has denied
[1:10:55 - 1:11:01] ▶
access and he says, I should be running this program and they were able to deny him access.
[1:11:01 - 1:11:09] ▶
So I think the takeaway here is check it out.
[1:11:09 - 1:11:11] ▶
I'm telling you that that is an actual correct, that is a leak.
[1:11:11 - 1:11:15] ▶
Everything said in that document, I don't know.
[1:11:15 - 1:11:17] ▶
What are you talking about?
[1:11:17 - 1:11:18] ▶
What have said in that document specifically?
[1:11:18 - 1:11:20] ▶
It's between a scientist and an admiral that are sitting and they're having a meeting.
[1:11:20 - 1:11:25] ▶
And they're talking about the search for the UFO subject, the search to get special
[1:11:25 - 1:11:30] ▶
access program access to all of these different things like reverse engineering programs.
[1:11:30 - 1:11:37] ▶
So in this document they talk about it.
[1:11:37 - 1:11:40] ▶
I believe that this document, the person that went was employed by Robert Bigelow.
[1:11:40 - 1:11:45] ▶
You know, one of the guys has a couple orbiting satellites and all that stuff.
[1:11:45 - 1:11:48] ▶
He's a guy owned skinwalker ranch.
[1:11:49 - 1:11:50] ▶
He was the guy that owned skinwalker.
[1:11:51 - 1:11:53] ▶
There's a new owner and I interviewed him for my other film, but there's a new owner.
[1:11:55 - 1:12:00] ▶
And you'll be hearing a lot more about that soon.
[1:12:00 - 1:12:03] ▶
But like it'll just, there's stuff that you'll be hearing about skinwalker ranch soon
[1:12:03 - 1:12:06] ▶
because there's a new owner.
[1:12:06 - 1:12:07] ▶
Anyway, the whole point of this insertion here is just that that document kind of validates
[1:12:07 - 1:12:15] ▶
a lot of this idea, Bob, just said that they make a little progress.
[1:12:15 - 1:12:19] ▶
Then they can't go anywhere.
[1:12:19 - 1:12:20] ▶
And then they bring it back out 10 years later and start working on it.
[1:12:21 - 1:12:26] ▶
What is the limiting factor?
[1:12:26 - 1:12:27] ▶
I think Bob should speak on this, but it's the material science.
[1:12:27 - 1:12:30] ▶
Yeah, it's early where physics is.
[1:12:30 - 1:12:32] ▶
So I can see them doing that.
[1:12:32 - 1:12:35] ▶
I mean, I didn't have any information on that, but I think what Georgian covered is probably
[1:12:35 - 1:12:41] ▶
accurate that we try and do what we can.
[1:12:41 - 1:12:45] ▶
And once we reach a roadblock on, we really can't figure it out.
[1:12:45 - 1:12:49] ▶
It's just friggin' wait, put the thing away, wait for science to catch up.
[1:12:49 - 1:12:54] ▶
And a decade later, let's take the project out again and see, all right, now where can
[1:12:54 - 1:12:58] ▶
But there's got to be someone who remains informed, right?
[1:12:59 - 1:13:01] ▶
So you've got your scientists like you and Barry, you got your people that you compartmentalize,
[1:13:02 - 1:13:07] ▶
you got these people working on this project.
[1:13:07 - 1:13:08] ▶
Yeah, there has to be some people that know everything.
[1:13:08 - 1:13:11] ▶
You've got security and then someone's going to be in the outside saying, hey, we need
[1:13:11 - 1:13:16] ▶
people to guard this building.
[1:13:16 - 1:13:17] ▶
Don't let anybody in for 10 years.
[1:13:17 - 1:13:19] ▶
I think a lot of that is private industry.
[1:13:19 - 1:13:21] ▶
And I think that's how they keep it.
[1:13:21 - 1:13:23] ▶
Yeah, I think that's how they litter, because the government is just so leaky.
[1:13:23 - 1:13:27] ▶
I think that's kind of what they're doing.
[1:13:27 - 1:13:29] ▶
That's what the document kind of proves.
[1:13:29 - 1:13:30] ▶
You just articulated that it isn't control private industry.
[1:13:30 - 1:13:34] ▶
What private industry?
[1:13:34 - 1:13:36] ▶
Some aerospace company, something?
[1:13:36 - 1:13:38] ▶
Yeah, the guy who, the Admiral wouldn't name it in the car in the conversation.
[1:13:39 - 1:13:43] ▶
So they still have these things supposedly.
[1:13:43 - 1:13:48] ▶
I mean, I don't have any information on them.
[1:13:49 - 1:13:51] ▶
Have you ever asked anyone that has any inkling of any idea of where they got them or how
[1:13:51 - 1:13:58] ▶
Now, but something must have been said to me from Barry.
[1:14:00 - 1:14:07] ▶
And but I, it was just too long ago and I can't quite remember what it said, but it just
[1:14:07 - 1:14:12] ▶
left the seat in my mind.
[1:14:12 - 1:14:13] ▶
I think at least one of them was part of an archaeological dig.
[1:14:13 - 1:14:18] ▶
One at least one of them is old.
[1:14:21 - 1:14:23] ▶
I don't know if it was the one I worked on, but I remember something to do with an archaeological
[1:14:23 - 1:14:27] ▶
So that means it's not just old, it's ancient.
[1:14:29 - 1:14:32] ▶
That'd be a great Steven Spielberg movie.
[1:14:32 - 1:14:34] ▶
That's all of it, would.
[1:14:36 - 1:14:38] ▶
Yeah, that showed me out when he said that for the first time.
[1:14:38 - 1:14:40] ▶
That's a freak out right there.
[1:14:41 - 1:14:42] ▶
Just a couple of dudes with some brushes looking for a Tyrannosaurus Rex bone and hit metal.
[1:14:42 - 1:14:47] ▶
And when did they find it?
[1:14:47 - 1:14:48] ▶
You know, that they have nine of them.
[1:14:48 - 1:14:50] ▶
Well, and how could we have not heard about that?
[1:14:50 - 1:14:53] ▶
What about the guys with the brushes?
[1:14:53 - 1:14:55] ▶
How could you uncover something like that?
[1:14:55 - 1:14:57] ▶
Well, Joe's newspaper at home does.
[1:14:57 - 1:14:59] ▶
I mean, they said it on that first day.
[1:14:59 - 1:15:01] ▶
Oh, you mean the Roswell TV?
[1:15:01 - 1:15:02] ▶
Yeah, yeah, when you told me.
[1:15:02 - 1:15:03] ▶
Yeah, yeah, I have a cover.
[1:15:03 - 1:15:05] ▶
What is this here, Jamie?
[1:15:05 - 1:15:06] ▶
This is the document, but I had to do some digging to find it.
[1:15:06 - 1:15:08] ▶
Yeah, it's just kind of, yeah, so this is where they meet at EG&G and this is Admiral
[1:15:08 - 1:15:13] ▶
And there's a lot more coming out.
[1:15:14 - 1:15:15] ▶
Now, I want to be clear.
[1:15:15 - 1:15:16] ▶
I want to put this out.
[1:15:16 - 1:15:17] ▶
He didn't leak this out anyway.
[1:15:17 - 1:15:19] ▶
This is, I can tell you how I recorded this conversation.
[1:15:19 - 1:15:22] ▶
So this was an employee of at the time Robert Bigelow.
[1:15:22 - 1:15:26] ▶
And this is in 2002.
[1:15:26 - 1:15:27] ▶
Do you remember when he had that government contract called Osap the World All Knows About
[1:15:28 - 1:15:31] ▶
Now and he had nids that studied the ranch?
[1:15:31 - 1:15:33] ▶
That 22 million everybody is saying it was for A-Tip, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification
[1:15:33 - 1:15:39] ▶
The 22 million dollars was for Osap that was pushed through through Congress, three
[1:15:40 - 1:15:45] ▶
congressmen, right, an astronaut.
[1:15:45 - 1:15:48] ▶
It was pushed through and that's what that 22 million dollars, by the way, they spend more
[1:15:48 - 1:15:52] ▶
money on Viagre every year than they do studying UFOs.
[1:15:52 - 1:15:55] ▶
If it was just this program, which I think is funny, it's probably going to make a lot more
[1:15:55 - 1:15:58] ▶
Well, you never know how it seeds into population, but anyway, this program, this is what was
[1:16:01 - 1:16:06] ▶
So it got the 22 million and really it was to study Skinwalker Ranch oddly enough that
[1:16:07 - 1:16:12] ▶
22 million all was inspired by the phenomenon they were seeing at Skinwalker Ranch because
[1:16:12 - 1:16:17] ▶
the scientists, they're seeing vehicles come through like a space in the sky.
[1:16:17 - 1:16:22] ▶
Yeah, we went there.
[1:16:22 - 1:16:24] ▶
I went there and talked to the interviewed a bunch of people that seemed full of shit
[1:16:24 - 1:16:28] ▶
but I coupled it in.
[1:16:28 - 1:16:29] ▶
It was very, very interesting.
[1:16:29 - 1:16:31] ▶
But if you look, I spent a lot of time in the area, I'm not talking about those stories.
[1:16:32 - 1:16:36] ▶
I'm saying there were scientists hired by the government, right, through Bigelow to study
[1:16:36 - 1:16:40] ▶
the ranch because they thought it was important.
[1:16:40 - 1:16:42] ▶
Whatever, whatever, the point is that 22 million was to study that.
[1:16:42 - 1:16:47] ▶
Then we have A-tip, which is like an auxiliary kind of program of military settings, like
[1:16:47 - 1:16:51] ▶
Commander Fravers and that sort of thing.
[1:16:51 - 1:16:53] ▶
This document is just one of those things that has now come forward through the Bigelow
[1:16:53 - 1:16:59] ▶
It was government funded and then it was personally funded and then government funded.
[1:17:00 - 1:17:04] ▶
It's just one of those things that kind of shakes you because you got this military guy
[1:17:04 - 1:17:09] ▶
who can't get access because of the private industry that's holding these non-terrestrial
[1:17:09 - 1:17:15] ▶
They can't study it.
[1:17:16 - 1:17:18] ▶
That's the claim right now.
[1:17:18 - 1:17:20] ▶
Let people dig more into this.
[1:17:21 - 1:17:23] ▶
It's fascinating, man.
[1:17:23 - 1:17:25] ▶
You are essentially, you're kicked out, right?
[1:17:25 - 1:17:32] ▶
You're out of this program.
[1:17:32 - 1:17:33] ▶
You can't work with these crafts anymore and do they give you any threats?
[1:17:33 - 1:17:40] ▶
Do they tell you what you have to do from here on out?
[1:17:40 - 1:17:44] ▶
The way it ended was I told George Napp all this stuff and he said, well, let's just
[1:17:45 - 1:17:52] ▶
Should something happen, at least we have a record of it.
[1:17:53 - 1:17:58] ▶
I don't remember what the impenetness was, but at some point George wanted to err at
[1:17:58 - 1:18:03] ▶
and he said, you make the call on it and look, if at any point you change your mind, we
[1:18:03 - 1:18:10] ▶
It came down to the day where George wants to put it on the five o'clock news.
[1:18:12 - 1:18:16] ▶
He said, this is important stuff.
[1:18:16 - 1:18:17] ▶
People have to know about it.
[1:18:17 - 1:18:19] ▶
I thought it was too.
[1:18:19 - 1:18:20] ▶
I said, it's kind of a crime.
[1:18:20 - 1:18:22] ▶
I know you got to keep the technology secret, but you can't not tell everybody that this
[1:18:22 - 1:18:27] ▶
stuff is going on, that we have actual hardware from another civilization.
[1:18:27 - 1:18:32] ▶
That's a big fucking deal.
[1:18:32 - 1:18:34] ▶
Probably the biggest one there ever was.
[1:18:34 - 1:18:39] ▶
George said, today's the day we got to put it on the news.
[1:18:39 - 1:18:43] ▶
There's something to that effect.
[1:18:43 - 1:18:44] ▶
When it came right down to the time to err at, I changed my mind and I said, we're not
[1:18:44 - 1:18:50] ▶
That's what turned into the famous wrestling match between me and George trying to get
[1:18:52 - 1:18:56] ▶
the tape, but he won because he was a bigger guy.
[1:18:56 - 1:19:00] ▶
So you actually physically wrestled?
[1:19:00 - 1:19:01] ▶
Well, I think it was more of a pulling match.
[1:19:01 - 1:19:03] ▶
I don't think we ever hit the ground, but he got the tape.
[1:19:03 - 1:19:07] ▶
He put it in the player and boom, five o'clock news was on and then I got a call after that
[1:19:07 - 1:19:13] ▶
and they said, it was from Dennis.
[1:19:13 - 1:19:14] ▶
He said, you have any idea what we're going to do to you now, any young up the phone.
[1:19:14 - 1:19:18] ▶
That was the last communication I had with him.
[1:19:18 - 1:19:22] ▶
And what has happened to you since then?
[1:19:22 - 1:19:25] ▶
After that, a lot of people I've known.
[1:19:25 - 1:19:31] ▶
Either were audited by the IRS.
[1:19:32 - 1:19:36] ▶
People had, anybody I know that had clearances that worked in secure programs, had the clearances
[1:19:36 - 1:19:41] ▶
One of them, one of mine that Jeremy knows.
[1:19:42 - 1:19:47] ▶
He's going on camera with me soon.
[1:19:47 - 1:19:48] ▶
He'll tell the story now that he's out of work up there.
[1:19:48 - 1:19:51] ▶
He was working up at the Tonopot test range waiting for his clearance to come through and
[1:19:51 - 1:19:56] ▶
It's like if they can't get the person that's involved, they just create a problem for
[1:19:58 - 1:20:04] ▶
everybody that surrounds them.
[1:20:04 - 1:20:07] ▶
The way it turns out, it heard a lot of people's lives that I was connected to.
[1:20:07 - 1:20:13] ▶
That's an effective way of shutting someone up.
[1:20:13 - 1:20:16] ▶
Did you feel that by coming forward and going public, they couldn't just snuff you out?
[1:20:16 - 1:20:21] ▶
That's what I was told in George and everybody said that.
[1:20:21 - 1:20:24] ▶
There's no one will touch you.
[1:20:26 - 1:20:29] ▶
Sometimes when it's just over-stressing people or camping on your lawn.
[1:20:36 - 1:20:40] ▶
This is going to make things worse doing this.
[1:20:40 - 1:20:43] ▶
This is going to make things better.
[1:20:43 - 1:20:44] ▶
I was trying to tell him.
[1:20:44 - 1:20:47] ▶
How is this going to make things better?
[1:20:47 - 1:20:49] ▶
Because you're getting a real chance to explain yourself in a way that's going to make people
[1:20:49 - 1:20:54] ▶
who not only work in the government, people that are police officers and firefighters
[1:20:54 - 1:21:00] ▶
and first responders and doctors and scientists, they're going to empathize.
[1:21:00 - 1:21:05] ▶
Emphasize and empathize with what it must be like to be a person like you in your 20s
[1:21:05 - 1:21:14] ▶
who gets thrust into this world unknowingly and confronted with one of the most, if not
[1:21:14 - 1:21:22] ▶
the most important discovery in the history of human beings, the big question, are we
[1:21:22 - 1:21:28] ▶
It's the number one question.
[1:21:29 - 1:21:30] ▶
There's two questions.
[1:21:30 - 1:21:32] ▶
What happens when we die and are we alone?
[1:21:32 - 1:21:35] ▶
Those are the two big questions.
[1:21:35 - 1:21:38] ▶
If we're not alone and someone knows we're not alone and these some people who know we're
[1:21:38 - 1:21:44] ▶
not alone are these bungling sort of...
[1:21:44 - 1:21:48] ▶
Even if they weren't, it's a crime.
[1:21:48 - 1:21:50] ▶
Yet they're not telling the rest of us.
[1:21:50 - 1:21:52] ▶
I don't mean bungling in terms of they're incompetent.
[1:21:52 - 1:21:55] ▶
I mean they can't be competent.
[1:21:55 - 1:21:57] ▶
It seems to me to what you're describing that no one can be competent with this technology.
[1:21:57 - 1:22:02] ▶
Like the Victorian era scholars analyzing some sort of a nuclear reactor.
[1:22:02 - 1:22:08] ▶
Why do you think they're not telling us?
[1:22:09 - 1:22:12] ▶
Let's just make an assumption that this is true right now.
[1:22:12 - 1:22:15] ▶
Why do you think that they're not telling us that our government doesn't tell us?
[1:22:15 - 1:22:19] ▶
If I'm the president and I get this information, what do I do with this?
[1:22:22 - 1:22:27] ▶
What do I do with this?
[1:22:27 - 1:22:28] ▶
There's something that we don't know.
[1:22:28 - 1:22:29] ▶
There's something we don't understand.
[1:22:29 - 1:22:31] ▶
There's something that came from another world.
[1:22:31 - 1:22:33] ▶
We got it talked away in the mountains and I just want you guys to know about it.
[1:22:33 - 1:22:36] ▶
Hey, American Nautilus on tonight.
[1:22:37 - 1:22:39] ▶
Who do you think is going to win?
[1:22:39 - 1:22:40] ▶
Who's going to win America's Nautilus?
[1:22:41 - 1:22:42] ▶
That's not going to happen.
[1:22:42 - 1:22:43] ▶
So one is uncertainty and the other one is what Bob and I have talked about a lot.
[1:22:43 - 1:22:48] ▶
We're not knowing what to tell people because you don't really understand it yourself even
[1:22:48 - 1:22:52] ▶
where you've got this.
[1:22:52 - 1:22:53] ▶
You want to run a government?
[1:22:54 - 1:22:55] ▶
You want to get people to pay their taxes?
[1:22:55 - 1:22:56] ▶
There's something else.
[1:22:56 - 1:22:57] ▶
So you have these objects fine with impunity, right?
[1:22:58 - 1:23:01] ▶
But you have something else.
[1:23:01 - 1:23:02] ▶
Well, not only that, what can you say?
[1:23:02 - 1:23:04] ▶
Like how much do you really know?
[1:23:04 - 1:23:05] ▶
I think it's mainly the technology.
[1:23:05 - 1:23:07] ▶
They just want to keep the technology secret because there's, yeah.
[1:23:08 - 1:23:12] ▶
Whoever gets this way, they win.
[1:23:12 - 1:23:13] ▶
They say you control the way you literally become invincible once you master the technology.
[1:23:13 - 1:23:20] ▶
You cannot penetrate a field like that.
[1:23:20 - 1:23:23] ▶
So I imagine that's, I know it's all science fiction, but science fiction turns into science
[1:23:23 - 1:23:27] ▶
If you have real force fields around aircraft and battleships, you win.
[1:23:28 - 1:23:35] ▶
You can force your will upon anybody.
[1:23:36 - 1:23:38] ▶
I guess there's so much more to this story when I was first there.
[1:23:39 - 1:23:43] ▶
There were Russian scientists at S4.
[1:23:43 - 1:23:46] ▶
This was early on in the project.
[1:23:46 - 1:23:48] ▶
So this was before Operation Paperclip became public as well, right?
[1:23:48 - 1:23:51] ▶
That was, I don't know what the date was.
[1:23:52 - 1:23:54] ▶
Yeah, I don't know the dates on.
[1:23:58 - 1:23:59] ▶
So it's roughly 10 years later Operation Paperclip becomes freedom of information.
[1:23:59 - 1:24:04] ▶
We sell it Russia, not Germany.
[1:24:04 - 1:24:05] ▶
We sell it Russian scientists.
[1:24:05 - 1:24:07] ▶
Yeah, but I mean Russian scientists, a lot of them came from Germany.
[1:24:07 - 1:24:10] ▶
A lot of those rocket scientists that worked with NASA, they all came from Nazi scientists.
[1:24:10 - 1:24:15] ▶
So some Russians got some of them.
[1:24:16 - 1:24:17] ▶
At some point there was intense cooperation with Russia.
[1:24:18 - 1:24:22] ▶
I mean, even exchanging some ideas on nuclear weapons and, you know, EMP tests and some
[1:24:22 - 1:24:27] ▶
things we would never have discussed with them, but at the same time, it was in the late
[1:24:27 - 1:24:31] ▶
They were involved and actually in the area at S4 with us.
[1:24:32 - 1:24:37] ▶
So you got to communicate with these guys?
[1:24:37 - 1:24:38] ▶
No, I knew they were there.
[1:24:39 - 1:24:41] ▶
Barry would talk about the commies that were there.
[1:24:41 - 1:24:43] ▶
And that was back when they were the commies.
[1:24:45 - 1:24:47] ▶
Yeah, yeah, they were real commies.
[1:24:47 - 1:24:50] ▶
And at some point it wasn't our group, but at some point there was a big discovery made.
[1:24:50 - 1:24:59] ▶
This did not happen when I was there.
[1:24:59 - 1:25:01] ▶
It happened in between my trips to there.
[1:25:01 - 1:25:03] ▶
And after that, apparently they decided it was just too cool to share with anybody.
[1:25:03 - 1:25:08] ▶
And the Russians were never allowed back on the base after that.
[1:25:08 - 1:25:11] ▶
But you don't know what that discovery was?
[1:25:11 - 1:25:12] ▶
I guess that it wasn't my group.
[1:25:13 - 1:25:14] ▶
So one of the other groups really found out something.
[1:25:14 - 1:25:18] ▶
But, you know, in typical American fashion, it was, all right, this is ours.
[1:25:18 - 1:25:23] ▶
You guys get the hell out of here.
[1:25:23 - 1:25:24] ▶
Was there any inkling that any other government had something similar?
[1:25:24 - 1:25:29] ▶
No, nothing that I had heard.
[1:25:29 - 1:25:31] ▶
See, that was the thing that always freaked me out.
[1:25:31 - 1:25:33] ▶
Was why if something was so superior to human beings, it's almost like visiting an ant colony.
[1:25:33 - 1:25:40] ▶
Like, why would you go to the queen?
[1:25:40 - 1:25:41] ▶
I don't give a fuck who the queen is.
[1:25:41 - 1:25:42] ▶
I'm so superior to ants.
[1:25:43 - 1:25:45] ▶
I don't care who you have running your hive.
[1:25:45 - 1:25:47] ▶
I'm just going to study it.
[1:25:47 - 1:25:48] ▶
I think it's who got it.
[1:25:48 - 1:25:49] ▶
Look at the, you know, rocket technology in Germany.
[1:25:50 - 1:25:53] ▶
But they got nine of them?
[1:25:53 - 1:25:55] ▶
Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me either.
[1:25:55 - 1:25:58] ▶
So they were either in the same area or, you know, one had clues to where others were.
[1:25:58 - 1:26:05] ▶
I mean, I don't know.
[1:26:05 - 1:26:06] ▶
You have to fill that in there, but you're right.
[1:26:06 - 1:26:07] ▶
I mean, nine of them, that's a big dig if it was archeological.
[1:26:07 - 1:26:12] ▶
Well, one of the more recent sightings and these discussions that have been coming out
[1:26:12 - 1:26:18] ▶
recently from Air Force pilots and Navy pilots, they've been talking about things happening
[1:26:18 - 1:26:22] ▶
And that something literally goes into the water or something maybe below the surface
[1:26:24 - 1:26:29] ▶
2004 Tic Tac, name it's case.
[1:26:30 - 1:26:32] ▶
So that's when George Nappen, I broke on the radio twice before the New York timeside.
[1:26:32 - 1:26:35] ▶
I know this one really well.
[1:26:35 - 1:26:37] ▶
Commander Fraver and those pilots, there was a disturbance on the surface of the water.
[1:26:37 - 1:26:43] ▶
Commander Fraver visually saw what looked like similar to a cross some object.
[1:26:43 - 1:26:49] ▶
So it's like, as if you have some coral under the water and you've got, it's breaking over.
[1:26:49 - 1:26:53] ▶
The Tic Tac is doing this crazy maneuver that defies, it's a gravity propeller system.
[1:26:53 - 1:26:58] ▶
They saw it in the sky before they saw it on the water, right?
[1:26:58 - 1:27:00] ▶
So there were radar that was picking these things coming down from 80,000 feet, dropping
[1:27:01 - 1:27:05] ▶
50 feet in less than a second.
[1:27:05 - 1:27:08] ▶
This is actually on the news today.
[1:27:10 - 1:27:11] ▶
There was a briefing.
[1:27:11 - 1:27:12] ▶
So a lot of people get this confused.
[1:27:12 - 1:27:13] ▶
Not this one then either.
[1:27:13 - 1:27:15] ▶
No, so that is called the gimbal.
[1:27:15 - 1:27:17] ▶
So there's three videos released by the Pentagon that are all actual.
[1:27:17 - 1:27:21] ▶
Just play and keep the volume off.
[1:27:21 - 1:27:22] ▶
I would really just pay attention to the source videos.
[1:27:23 - 1:27:26] ▶
So you've got the Tic Tac, which is this object that Commander Fraver saw.
[1:27:26 - 1:27:30] ▶
Another pilot filmed it with a fleer pod and it goes, but this one you see is really
[1:27:30 - 1:27:35] ▶
important to Bob's story.
[1:27:35 - 1:27:36] ▶
It's been recently analyzed.
[1:27:38 - 1:27:40] ▶
Not only does it, it's definitive that it's not a conventional anything by its movements,
[1:27:41 - 1:27:47] ▶
but there's a pocket of cold air around a propulsion source.
[1:27:47 - 1:27:52] ▶
So this object, by the way, sat stationary for days.
[1:27:52 - 1:27:56] ▶
If not weeks, it sat stationary.
[1:27:56 - 1:27:57] ▶
They found it 11 hours later.
[1:27:57 - 1:28:00] ▶
And they were saying there's no way this thing using that kind of energy to go that fast
[1:28:00 - 1:28:04] ▶
could just hover from an hour.
[1:28:04 - 1:28:06] ▶
And by the way, you're seeing a very small part of what happened that day.
[1:28:06 - 1:28:10] ▶
This object was not alone.
[1:28:10 - 1:28:12] ▶
And so hopefully that information comes out and we can, I mean, I wish we had video of
[1:28:12 - 1:28:17] ▶
I'm sure we'd all want to see it.
[1:28:18 - 1:28:19] ▶
But that's called the gimbal.
[1:28:19 - 1:28:20] ▶
That was East Coast, right?
[1:28:20 - 1:28:23] ▶
West Coast 2004 was the TickTack.
[1:28:25 - 1:28:27] ▶
The disturbance on the water, Commander Fraver believes there was something under that water.
[1:28:27 - 1:28:32] ▶
There was causing that disturbance when the TickTack was coming around to do in it.
[1:28:32 - 1:28:36] ▶
Within the people that are studying this, they're thinking maybe the TickTack system was causing
[1:28:36 - 1:28:41] ▶
their disturbance, but the USO, an identified submerged object that he visually saw.
[1:28:41 - 1:28:48] ▶
The whole interesting thing about that is I would love Bob to describe it is why it
[1:28:48 - 1:28:53] ▶
doesn't matter if these crafter in space, air or water, why doesn't it matter?
[1:28:53 - 1:28:58] ▶
I love when he talks about this shit.
[1:28:58 - 1:29:00] ▶
Well, first of all, Commander Fraver was the F-18 pilot of the Nemitz that was sent out
[1:29:00 - 1:29:06] ▶
to find out what this stuff is.
[1:29:06 - 1:29:08] ▶
And it wasn't just, I got a chance to talk to him recently.
[1:29:08 - 1:29:12] ▶
And it wasn't just a radar image.
[1:29:12 - 1:29:14] ▶
I mean, Commander Fraver had eyes on it for over five minutes watching this thing as
[1:29:14 - 1:29:20] ▶
four other pilots did.
[1:29:20 - 1:29:21] ▶
So it wasn't a radar blipper or anything.
[1:29:21 - 1:29:23] ▶
I mean, these guys were watching this thing.
[1:29:23 - 1:29:26] ▶
But one of the things, I think in the gimbal video, the way the craft that we worked on flies
[1:29:26 - 1:29:36] ▶
is it doesn't fly like conventional aircraft does.
[1:29:36 - 1:29:41] ▶
And it doesn't fly like a flying saucer with it in a 1950s movie.
[1:29:41 - 1:29:45] ▶
It flies belly first.
[1:29:45 - 1:29:47] ▶
I mean, it may set down conventionally, but it always rotates.
[1:29:47 - 1:29:52] ▶
It does a roll maneuver, puts its belly towards the target, and then moves away at high speed.
[1:29:52 - 1:29:57] ▶
So it really could car flying with the wheels forward.
[1:29:57 - 1:30:00] ▶
I mean, it may lift it, land on the wheels, but at some point when it wants to leave, it
[1:30:02 - 1:30:05] ▶
flips up, points the wheels where it wants to go and takes off.
[1:30:05 - 1:30:09] ▶
In the gimbal video, you can see the craft do the roll maneuver.
[1:30:09 - 1:30:13] ▶
And it's really interesting.
[1:30:13 - 1:30:15] ▶
It behaves exactly like the crafts that I worked on.
[1:30:15 - 1:30:18] ▶
So much like we have different shaped aircrafts and fighter jets and cars, they probably have
[1:30:18 - 1:30:25] ▶
different shapes of these objects that operate under similar principles.
[1:30:25 - 1:30:30] ▶
But they all have the same power source.
[1:30:31 - 1:30:33] ▶
They all have the same power source.
[1:30:33 - 1:30:34] ▶
And we're also dealing with, if you think about the laws of technological progression, you
[1:30:34 - 1:30:42] ▶
think of Moore's law and you think of how things accelerate, you've got to think that if
[1:30:42 - 1:30:47] ▶
this civilization is, who knows how many years more advanced than we are, if not even
[1:30:47 - 1:30:52] ▶
years, I mean, we're thinking about in terms of conventional terms, right, the way we look
[1:30:52 - 1:30:57] ▶
I mean, they might be just superior in terms of their intellect.
[1:30:58 - 1:31:04] ▶
We don't know, right?
[1:31:06 - 1:31:07] ▶
Well, the only reason I say that is because, look, everyone doesn't necessarily start at
[1:31:07 - 1:31:14] ▶
a steam engine and go to an internal combustion engine and then, you know, electric power, nuclear
[1:31:14 - 1:31:19] ▶
power, and go up the ladder that we can, you know, the binary, if the stuff is true about
[1:31:19 - 1:31:25] ▶
the origin and the binary star system and they have heavier elements that we don't have,
[1:31:25 - 1:31:30] ▶
and this element, stable element 115 is a naturally occurring material.
[1:31:30 - 1:31:34] ▶
Maybe that's the first thing they started experimenting with.
[1:31:34 - 1:31:38] ▶
And the version of their steam engine, their first product was something that operated
[1:31:38 - 1:31:43] ▶
like this and actually when they came to Earth to look around or, you know, whatever, they
[1:31:43 - 1:31:47] ▶
were amazed at the stuff we were doing.
[1:31:47 - 1:31:49] ▶
These guys burned stuff and squirted out the back to go forward.
[1:31:49 - 1:31:52] ▶
So, you know, who says they follow any kind of normal progression like that?
[1:31:52 - 1:31:57] ▶
My thought was if you went back to the 1400s and then you went from 1400 to 1500, you're
[1:31:57 - 1:32:04] ▶
not going to see that much of a difference technologically.
[1:32:04 - 1:32:07] ▶
If you go from 2000 to 3000, I assume there's going to be a radical change.
[1:32:07 - 1:32:12] ▶
Well, the, yeah, the delta, the rate of change is, is magnificently higher than it used
[1:32:13 - 1:32:19] ▶
So, if you think about what they had in 1988 and you think about what they probably have
[1:32:21 - 1:32:26] ▶
in 2019, just logically seems like they would advance.
[1:32:26 - 1:32:32] ▶
The only question is like, are they living?
[1:32:34 - 1:32:38] ▶
Is that a living thing in terms of like a biological thing or are they some sort of an artificially
[1:32:38 - 1:32:45] ▶
created creation like we are working on right now?
[1:32:45 - 1:32:48] ▶
I mean, we're in the middle of working on artificial reality, artificial being, sentient
[1:32:48 - 1:32:53] ▶
beings, artificial intelligence.
[1:32:53 - 1:32:54] ▶
There's silicon based life forms that they're essentially trying to create.
[1:32:54 - 1:32:58] ▶
Boston Dynamics, was it Boston Dynamics at the company?
[1:32:58 - 1:33:01] ▶
You can make robots, robots, yeah.
[1:33:01 - 1:33:03] ▶
You can make machines out of flesh, right?
[1:33:03 - 1:33:05] ▶
So, cyborg or cybernetic organism is just that, you know, that's what a lot of people think
[1:33:05 - 1:33:09] ▶
there was like gray things are, you know, that people call the grays.
[1:33:09 - 1:33:12] ▶
It's like they were like, they're machines printed from flesh.
[1:33:13 - 1:33:16] ▶
So what you're saying is like, not so far off.
[1:33:16 - 1:33:18] ▶
Well, they could just be synthetic, synthetic ones.
[1:33:18 - 1:33:20] ▶
They don't even need to be, you know, machines.
[1:33:20 - 1:33:23] ▶
Well, they seem to have no sex organs.
[1:33:23 - 1:33:25] ▶
So they describe by people that have had interactions with them, assuming these people
[1:33:25 - 1:33:28] ▶
aren't liars or crazy or whatever.
[1:33:28 - 1:33:30] ▶
They have no sex organs and that they don't seem to have any muscle that is almost like
[1:33:31 - 1:33:37] ▶
And they have enormous heads.
[1:33:39 - 1:33:40] ▶
I mean, if you look at astraliopithecus or depictions of, you know, ancient hominids and
[1:33:40 - 1:33:46] ▶
then you go to human beings, one of the things you see is bigger heads and weaker bodies.
[1:33:46 - 1:33:50] ▶
Well, you see some clear progression of evolution too.
[1:33:50 - 1:33:53] ▶
Where something like that, I would lean towards synthetic organism because it looks like it
[1:33:55 - 1:33:59] ▶
was made for a specific task.
[1:33:59 - 1:34:01] ▶
There's no reproductive organs.
[1:34:01 - 1:34:03] ▶
So I mean, that almost kind of leaves out any kind of, you know, physical evolution.
[1:34:03 - 1:34:07] ▶
Well, that's also our bottleneck, right?
[1:34:08 - 1:34:09] ▶
Our bottleneck is our biological imperative.
[1:34:09 - 1:34:12] ▶
The need to breed, emotions, fear, anxiety, all these different things that exist in order
[1:34:12 - 1:34:19] ▶
to force us into making sure we reproduce.
[1:34:19 - 1:34:22] ▶
I mean, that's essentially what there's a human reward systems that aren't necessary once
[1:34:22 - 1:34:27] ▶
they can figure out a way to make some sort of sentient artificial life.
[1:34:27 - 1:34:31] ▶
Some sort of thing that doesn't have these biological limitations that we have.
[1:34:31 - 1:34:35] ▶
By the way, these craft, all these different kinds have been reported because it was confusing.
[1:34:35 - 1:34:39] ▶
I always thought of flying saucers.
[1:34:39 - 1:34:40] ▶
What I heard Bob Lazar talk about flying saucer, right?
[1:34:40 - 1:34:43] ▶
But if you look back in history, people have always reported the weirdest shapes.
[1:34:43 - 1:34:47] ▶
Like none of them are alike.
[1:34:47 - 1:34:49] ▶
You know, there are other saucers, but you got cigar shaped.
[1:34:49 - 1:34:51] ▶
You got, you know, the top hatch.
[1:34:51 - 1:34:53] ▶
Maybe they're serving different purposes.
[1:34:55 - 1:34:57] ▶
They're doing different things like we'd use different tools.
[1:34:57 - 1:35:00] ▶
And I want to be clear, the reason I know that memo is real is because I spend a lot of
[1:35:00 - 1:35:04] ▶
time with Dr. Edgar Mitchell, a six-man to walk in the moon.
[1:35:04 - 1:35:07] ▶
Last guy to film him before he died, right?
[1:35:07 - 1:35:10] ▶
That's how I know I don't want any journalist thinking I got it from anywhere else.
[1:35:10 - 1:35:13] ▶
I know because of Dr. Mitchell.
[1:35:13 - 1:35:15] ▶
And he said the same thing.
[1:35:15 - 1:35:16] ▶
Maybe these things are performing different tasks, you know?
[1:35:16 - 1:35:21] ▶
What would I see if you think about what an alien is in terms of our, the sort of iconic
[1:35:22 - 1:35:27] ▶
image of an alien, like the Steven Spielberg, Closing Countries of the Third Time, Third
[1:35:27 - 1:35:32] ▶
Kind alien, they seem like what we'd assume a human being would eventually become.
[1:35:32 - 1:35:38] ▶
And if these things are tiny, human beings are small than they've ever been before, they're
[1:35:39 - 1:35:43] ▶
weaker than they've ever been before, and there seems to be a trend in that direction.
[1:35:43 - 1:35:47] ▶
And this trend seems to be amplified by our technological progression.
[1:35:47 - 1:35:52] ▶
There are a lack of need for muscle strength and a lack of need for violence, and we're
[1:35:52 - 1:35:58] ▶
moving in a society to try to get away from all the things that we think are abhorrent
[1:35:58 - 1:36:02] ▶
about human beings and the terrible behaviors that we have.
[1:36:02 - 1:36:05] ▶
If we, one day, do give birth to some sort of an artificial being, like Marshall McCluen's
[1:36:05 - 1:36:14] ▶
quote, we are the sex organs of the machine world, you know, that one day we,
[1:36:14 - 1:36:19] ▶
Okay, I'll buy this.
[1:36:19 - 1:36:20] ▶
Yeah, McCluen was brilliant.
[1:36:20 - 1:36:22] ▶
And that, that quote has always been one of my favorites, because okay, what are we doing
[1:36:22 - 1:36:26] ▶
when we're constantly, technologically innovating?
[1:36:26 - 1:36:29] ▶
We're constantly looking for faster cars, better computers, bigger screens, faster, more
[1:36:29 - 1:36:34] ▶
resolution, more pixels, more this, more that, higher bandwidth, 5G, 10G.
[1:36:34 - 1:36:38] ▶
Moving into this, in this, if you just follow it, objectively stand back, don't attach
[1:36:39 - 1:36:44] ▶
yourself or your civilization, your culture to it, and look at what it is, we're moving
[1:36:44 - 1:36:49] ▶
100% towards technological innovation.
[1:36:49 - 1:36:53] ▶
If you looked at this species from afar, and if you weren't a part of it, you would say,
[1:36:53 - 1:36:56] ▶
what does this species do?
[1:36:56 - 1:36:58] ▶
Oh, they make things.
[1:36:58 - 1:36:59] ▶
They make things better every year.
[1:36:59 - 1:37:01] ▶
Beehives are the same fucking thing that you see 10 years ago.
[1:37:01 - 1:37:04] ▶
You go buy, you see a beehive, it's amazing, it's cool, but they're the same fucking thing.
[1:37:04 - 1:37:07] ▶
They figured out how to do it.
[1:37:07 - 1:37:08] ▶
They make a beehive.
[1:37:09 - 1:37:10] ▶
We make better things.
[1:37:11 - 1:37:12] ▶
At some point, I think that technology is going to fuse with us, and we're going to
[1:37:13 - 1:37:17] ▶
It's already happening.
[1:37:18 - 1:37:19] ▶
Elon Musk talked about it on my podcast that we are cyborgs.
[1:37:19 - 1:37:21] ▶
You just carried in your pocket.
[1:37:21 - 1:37:22] ▶
It answers any question you want.
[1:37:23 - 1:37:25] ▶
It'll give you the answers instantaneously.
[1:37:26 - 1:37:29] ▶
It has all your phone numbers in it.
[1:37:30 - 1:37:31] ▶
It has all your contacts.
[1:37:31 - 1:37:32] ▶
You can get ahold of people.
[1:37:32 - 1:37:33] ▶
People listening to you through it.
[1:37:33 - 1:37:35] ▶
It's connecting us in ways even involuntarily.
[1:37:35 - 1:37:37] ▶
It's just a little bit of a tactic.
[1:37:37 - 1:37:39] ▶
It's also getting on your wrist.
[1:37:39 - 1:37:40] ▶
How many people have eye watches?
[1:37:40 - 1:37:42] ▶
Apple watches, they're putting their wrist.
[1:37:42 - 1:37:44] ▶
That's only because we can't integrate them yet, but if you know that point, it's come.
[1:37:44 - 1:37:48] ▶
I didn't joke about it last night, but I have a bit about it.
[1:37:49 - 1:37:51] ▶
About the integration between humans and technology.
[1:37:52 - 1:37:55] ▶
If you were a hyper intelligence, would you do the work yourself, or would you create
[1:37:56 - 1:38:00] ▶
some cool things called humans to do it for you?
[1:38:00 - 1:38:03] ▶
Would you create things that are cybernetic organisms to come in with machines and do it
[1:38:03 - 1:38:07] ▶
If you're a hyper intelligence that has changed, you've described, you'd probably create
[1:38:08 - 1:38:12] ▶
Well, that's a vast conspiracy theory.
[1:38:13 - 1:38:15] ▶
I'm not talking about conspiracy.
[1:38:15 - 1:38:17] ▶
But it is a conspiracy theory.
[1:38:17 - 1:38:18] ▶
Well, I mean, I don't think it's necessarily that.
[1:38:19 - 1:38:22] ▶
You could look at it that way, but that is the way a conspiracy theorist would look at
[1:38:22 - 1:38:26] ▶
The way I would look at it is there's obviously a progression going on, a biological
[1:38:27 - 1:38:30] ▶
There's some sort of an integration with technology.
[1:38:31 - 1:38:33] ▶
There's some sort of imperative, this need for technological innovation.
[1:38:33 - 1:38:37] ▶
I think it's attached to materialism in some sort of a strange way, because so many people
[1:38:39 - 1:38:44] ▶
work so hard to get new things.
[1:38:44 - 1:38:46] ▶
And like, God, it seems so logical and preposterous.
[1:38:46 - 1:38:48] ▶
And it makes people unhappy and depressions on the rise, but nobody seems to be able to stop
[1:38:48 - 1:38:52] ▶
Well, maybe it's because we are the electronic caterpillars that give birth to the butterfly.
[1:38:54 - 1:39:00] ▶
Maybe that's what we're doing.
[1:39:00 - 1:39:01] ▶
Maybe we're very well, baby.
[1:39:01 - 1:39:02] ▶
Our job is to do is to make some sort of a cocoon.
[1:39:02 - 1:39:06] ▶
We don't even know we're doing it while we're doing it.
[1:39:06 - 1:39:09] ▶
Do you think a caterpillar is, well, hey, caterpillar, what are you doing?
[1:39:09 - 1:39:12] ▶
Man, I'm doing my thing.
[1:39:12 - 1:39:13] ▶
I have to make a cocoon.
[1:39:14 - 1:39:15] ▶
That I'm becoming a butterfly.
[1:39:15 - 1:39:16] ▶
This could be a natural part of evolution.
[1:39:16 - 1:39:18] ▶
That we're just supposed to do this and make the jump to some sort of mechanized, yeah,
[1:39:19 - 1:39:24] ▶
And a rangatine that is fishing with a spear.
[1:39:25 - 1:39:30] ▶
No, they've figured out how to fish with spears.
[1:39:30 - 1:39:34] ▶
There's primatologists who have been caught without somebody showing them how to fish.
[1:39:34 - 1:39:39] ▶
No, they've imitated human beings doing it.
[1:39:39 - 1:39:42] ▶
And now they do it, but they do it independently.
[1:39:42 - 1:39:44] ▶
They're not trained orangutans.
[1:39:44 - 1:39:46] ▶
They're wild orangut—look at that.
[1:39:46 - 1:39:48] ▶
That is a wild orangutans person.
[1:39:48 - 1:39:50] ▶
Oh, yeah, that's impressive.
[1:39:50 - 1:39:51] ▶
Well, there's these primatologists.
[1:39:52 - 1:39:54] ▶
I guess you would call them primatologists?
[1:39:54 - 1:39:56] ▶
That's a great—biologists.
[1:39:57 - 1:39:58] ▶
Researchers that believe that monkeys and chimps and some of the great apes are moving
[1:39:58 - 1:40:04] ▶
into the stone age, that they've currently entered the stone age, like they're not
[1:40:04 - 1:40:08] ▶
staying what they were 100,000 years ago or 500,000 years ago.
[1:40:08 - 1:40:13] ▶
But they're actively using tools and they're experimenting with different ways to use those
[1:40:13 - 1:40:18] ▶
And then they're making tools out of stone.
[1:40:19 - 1:40:21] ▶
They're making tools out of sticks and they're using them.
[1:40:21 - 1:40:24] ▶
Well, this might just be what happens.
[1:40:24 - 1:40:28] ▶
This might just be what happens.
[1:40:28 - 1:40:29] ▶
I mean, why the hell do—why the fuck do we work so hard?
[1:40:30 - 1:40:33] ▶
I mean, I was driving to LA this morning.
[1:40:33 - 1:40:36] ▶
I had a doctor's appointment, so I was on the 405 at 8 in the morning.
[1:40:36 - 1:40:40] ▶
But Jesus Christ, like this is so crazy.
[1:40:40 - 1:40:43] ▶
When you're on the 405 in LA at 8 o'clock in the morning, you see literally a million
[1:40:43 - 1:40:46] ▶
And it's just everywhere you go, it's people.
[1:40:47 - 1:40:49] ▶
And also, I'm in a Tesla.
[1:40:49 - 1:40:51] ▶
So I have it on autopilot.
[1:40:51 - 1:40:53] ▶
So I'm there sitting.
[1:40:53 - 1:40:54] ▶
I'm listening to a podcast.
[1:40:54 - 1:40:55] ▶
I barely have my hand on the wheel.
[1:40:55 - 1:40:57] ▶
I'm not touching shit.
[1:40:57 - 1:40:58] ▶
This car's driving me along.
[1:40:58 - 1:41:00] ▶
I'm not even doing anything.
[1:41:00 - 1:41:01] ▶
I'm just hanging out.
[1:41:01 - 1:41:03] ▶
It's so much less crap, by the way, to do that that way.
[1:41:03 - 1:41:05] ▶
So it encourages you to innovate.
[1:41:06 - 1:41:08] ▶
It encourages you to embrace this new technology.
[1:41:08 - 1:41:10] ▶
I got this giant screen that's showing me the navigation in front of me.
[1:41:10 - 1:41:14] ▶
Oh, I'll be there five minutes early.
[1:41:14 - 1:41:16] ▶
And I'm listening to a podcast, wirelessly.
[1:41:17 - 1:41:19] ▶
It's Bluetooth screen streaming from my phone.
[1:41:19 - 1:41:22] ▶
And I pulled that podcast, which came out today out of the fucking sky.
[1:41:22 - 1:41:26] ▶
I'm listening to it and I'm all comfortable.
[1:41:26 - 1:41:28] ▶
And my nice little car just driving on my way to the doctor's office.
[1:41:28 - 1:41:31] ▶
This is irresistible stuff.
[1:41:31 - 1:41:32] ▶
Yeah, different than your walkman.
[1:41:32 - 1:41:34] ▶
It's frighteningly irresistible.
[1:41:37 - 1:41:39] ▶
But is it frightening?
[1:41:39 - 1:41:40] ▶
I mean, if you were a monkey, right?
[1:41:40 - 1:41:42] ▶
If you were an australia pithicus, would you go, man, I don't want to fucking be a person.
[1:41:42 - 1:41:46] ▶
I like just swinging around on trees.
[1:41:48 - 1:41:50] ▶
I like running from jaguars.
[1:41:50 - 1:41:52] ▶
Guys, life is running from crocodiles.
[1:41:53 - 1:41:55] ▶
It's not living in a fucking suburban community.
[1:41:55 - 1:41:56] ▶
Oh, there's probably something that are like that.
[1:41:56 - 1:41:58] ▶
Yeah, I don't think so.
[1:41:58 - 1:41:59] ▶
I think when it comes, we're going to embrace it.
[1:41:59 - 1:42:02] ▶
We're going to embrace it the same way you embrace cell phones, the same way you embrace
[1:42:02 - 1:42:06] ▶
There's going to be a few holdouts.
[1:42:07 - 1:42:08] ▶
I don't even have an email address, man.
[1:42:08 - 1:42:10] ▶
There's a few in far between.
[1:42:10 - 1:42:12] ▶
The good luck with that fuck face.
[1:42:12 - 1:42:13] ▶
Go move to the woods.
[1:42:13 - 1:42:14] ▶
I was just going to throw Ted Kaczynski.
[1:42:16 - 1:42:17] ▶
Ted Kaczynski was right.
[1:42:18 - 1:42:19] ▶
This is something that I think about sometimes when I get really high.
[1:42:19 - 1:42:21] ▶
But Ted Kaczynski was a part of the Harvard LSD studies.
[1:42:21 - 1:42:25] ▶
This has been proven.
[1:42:25 - 1:42:26] ▶
Ted Kaczynski, they cooked his fucking brain when he was at Harvard.
[1:42:26 - 1:42:30] ▶
And then when he went over to Berkeley and became a professor, his goal was to make enough
[1:42:30 - 1:42:34] ▶
money so that he could implement this program and live in the woods and then write his manifesto
[1:42:34 - 1:42:39] ▶
and start killing people that were involved in propagating technology.
[1:42:39 - 1:42:43] ▶
He was expunged from the Harvard logs, by the way.
[1:42:43 - 1:42:46] ▶
This is something my friend just called me about.
[1:42:46 - 1:42:49] ▶
So there's this private library and they used to print people's names whenever they were
[1:42:49 - 1:42:54] ▶
part of a university.
[1:42:54 - 1:42:55] ▶
And he was one of the handful of people that were expunged from it.
[1:42:55 - 1:42:59] ▶
I want to jump back to the one thing, Joe.
[1:42:59 - 1:43:00] ▶
I want to be very careful with that word conspiracy theorist.
[1:43:00 - 1:43:04] ▶
What I was saying to you was, we terraform our earth, right?
[1:43:04 - 1:43:09] ▶
We change the environment.
[1:43:10 - 1:43:11] ▶
We do all this innovation.
[1:43:11 - 1:43:12] ▶
What is stopping us from thinking that that's not being done?
[1:43:12 - 1:43:16] ▶
I'm not saying it is.
[1:43:16 - 1:43:17] ▶
I'm not saying what's stopping us from thinking that that's being done on a much bigger level,
[1:43:17 - 1:43:21] ▶
You mean like aliens coming down doing that to humans?
[1:43:22 - 1:43:25] ▶
Well, I'm telling you that there is something here.
[1:43:25 - 1:43:27] ▶
There's a fact, you know, there's something, there are craft.
[1:43:27 - 1:43:30] ▶
So the question is, what is that about?
[1:43:33 - 1:43:35] ▶
And I'm just looking at what we do with what you're describing with technology.
[1:43:35 - 1:43:38] ▶
Well, I think it's much more likely that the same way we observe chimps and we observe
[1:43:38 - 1:43:44] ▶
that they are now in the stone age, that they're observing us and that they're recognizing
[1:43:44 - 1:43:48] ▶
that there is a pattern, that there is steps that happen.
[1:43:48 - 1:43:52] ▶
I mean, Carl Sagan talked about the different levels of civilization and that we don't
[1:43:52 - 1:43:56] ▶
get past certain levels, we're never going to reach this level.
[1:43:56 - 1:44:00] ▶
We're in a state type zero.
[1:44:00 - 1:44:02] ▶
We're in this warring, polluting, pillaging, we're awesome.
[1:44:02 - 1:44:07] ▶
It's a, well, we're awesome in a lot of ways, you know.
[1:44:08 - 1:44:11] ▶
But in that way, we're not.
[1:44:11 - 1:44:12] ▶
But yeah, we're children that have immense power that we didn't really, the other thing
[1:44:12 - 1:44:17] ▶
is you're using the immense power that other people have created, right?
[1:44:17 - 1:44:21] ▶
I mean, even when you're driving a car, you're stomping on the gas, like, woo, you didn't
[1:44:21 - 1:44:25] ▶
invent the fucking engine, you didn't invent tires.
[1:44:25 - 1:44:28] ▶
There's all these things that were involved in the creation of this thing that is really
[1:44:28 - 1:44:33] ▶
outside of your grasp of understanding.
[1:44:33 - 1:44:37] ▶
But yet you have the ability to use it, like a person with a gun.
[1:44:37 - 1:44:40] ▶
I'm just going to bang, bang, bang people.
[1:44:40 - 1:44:42] ▶
You didn't invent a gun.
[1:44:42 - 1:44:43] ▶
So like, you've, without the intellect to craft and engineer and manifest these creations,
[1:44:43 - 1:44:52] ▶
you just have access to them because you have paper or you have bitcoin or whatever the
[1:44:52 - 1:44:55] ▶
fuck you're using, using a credit card.
[1:44:55 - 1:44:57] ▶
Now you have almost no responsibility.
[1:44:57 - 1:45:00] ▶
You just, you could just flippantly use these things, which is why we, you know, we were
[1:45:00 - 1:45:06] ▶
very childlike in our actions because we haven't had to earn the responsibility.
[1:45:06 - 1:45:11] ▶
We haven't had to earn these things that we've been able to have and you've only been
[1:45:11 - 1:45:15] ▶
able to have them because other people have innovated and spent ungodly amounts of time
[1:45:15 - 1:45:21] ▶
and effort and focus in the lab to create these things.
[1:45:21 - 1:45:24] ▶
And then they've all put them together and then what is the, what's the reason to put
[1:45:24 - 1:45:28] ▶
them together to profit?
[1:45:28 - 1:45:29] ▶
Well, what's the reason of profit?
[1:45:29 - 1:45:30] ▶
Well, why are you doing this?
[1:45:30 - 1:45:31] ▶
So you can buy more things.
[1:45:31 - 1:45:32] ▶
Well, what are we doing?
[1:45:32 - 1:45:34] ▶
We're making better things.
[1:45:35 - 1:45:36] ▶
That's all we do is make better things.
[1:45:37 - 1:45:39] ▶
Why the fuck do we need oil?
[1:45:40 - 1:45:41] ▶
Why can't we just burn wood and stay home?
[1:45:41 - 1:45:43] ▶
Why can't we grow chickens and food in the backyard?
[1:45:43 - 1:45:46] ▶
Well, we fucking can.
[1:45:47 - 1:45:48] ▶
But we decide to make that almost impossible.
[1:45:50 - 1:45:53] ▶
Our preferred way of living is to stuff everyone into a very small area where no one grows
[1:45:53 - 1:45:57] ▶
anything other than weed.
[1:45:57 - 1:45:59] ▶
LA is 20 million people with hard surfaces is as many hard surfaces you can.
[1:46:00 - 1:46:05] ▶
Boy, if you got an acre backyard in LA, holy shit, look at all that grain.
[1:46:05 - 1:46:09] ▶
Well, that's the fucking earth coming through this weird sort of creation that we've put
[1:46:10 - 1:46:16] ▶
on top of the earth.
[1:46:16 - 1:46:17] ▶
But the goal is that like New York City, there's none of it, right?
[1:46:17 - 1:46:20] ▶
You've got Central Park and they just got human shit.
[1:46:20 - 1:46:24] ▶
No one's growing anything.
[1:46:25 - 1:46:26] ▶
And then constant work.
[1:46:26 - 1:46:28] ▶
Everyone's up early.
[1:46:28 - 1:46:29] ▶
Make that money so you can buy more things.
[1:46:32 - 1:46:34] ▶
And every year, hey, Apple, where's this fucking new phone?
[1:46:34 - 1:46:38] ▶
As if your phone isn't good enough.
[1:46:38 - 1:46:40] ▶
Like your phone's taken pictures and videos and people are calling you and you got applications
[1:46:40 - 1:46:45] ▶
to tell you which way the wind's blowing.
[1:46:45 - 1:46:47] ▶
It's not good enough.
[1:46:47 - 1:46:48] ▶
A blink of an eye, blink of an eye, it's all gone though that like 10,000 years and the
[1:46:48 - 1:46:52] ▶
Hoover Dam goes or whatever.
[1:46:52 - 1:46:54] ▶
You know, Mount Rushmore disintegrates.
[1:46:54 - 1:46:56] ▶
So it's amazing because we have created that and everything's trying to spring up through
[1:46:56 - 1:46:59] ▶
We keep it maintenance down, but we're a blink man.
[1:47:00 - 1:47:03] ▶
But we don't think that way.
[1:47:04 - 1:47:05] ▶
You know, you think in terms of your own life, right?
[1:47:05 - 1:47:08] ▶
You think in terms of what you want and what you need right now.
[1:47:08 - 1:47:11] ▶
You know, it's, we are in many ways this combination of this weird primitive ape-like thing with
[1:47:11 - 1:47:19] ▶
the ability to calculate and manipulate our world and our environment that makes us
[1:47:19 - 1:47:24] ▶
On top of that, with existential angst and fear.
[1:47:25 - 1:47:28] ▶
So what do you do with that?
[1:47:28 - 1:47:29] ▶
We fucking water it down with the anti-depressants.
[1:47:29 - 1:47:32] ▶
Give these fucking people some shit that keeps them moving.
[1:47:32 - 1:47:34] ▶
They're worried about the future.
[1:47:34 - 1:47:36] ▶
They're trying to figure out what reality is.
[1:47:36 - 1:47:37] ▶
You're on a goddamn convertible spaceship spinning a thousand miles an hour hurling through
[1:47:38 - 1:47:42] ▶
There's no meaning to this thing.
[1:47:43 - 1:47:44] ▶
Just keep making shit.
[1:47:44 - 1:47:46] ▶
And then one day they're going to be able to hit that switch and this life will be born
[1:47:47 - 1:47:52] ▶
out of innovation and thinking and progress and technology and more than likely.
[1:47:52 - 1:47:59] ▶
It's probably going to be what we're seeing that these things are, that you're, you're
[1:47:59 - 1:48:03] ▶
I'm not observing them, but yeah, someone is observing.
[1:48:04 - 1:48:07] ▶
Are you implying that they're us?
[1:48:07 - 1:48:09] ▶
I don't think they are us, but I think they are what happens when things keep going.
[1:48:09 - 1:48:14] ▶
It's not us, just like we're not monkeys, right?
[1:48:14 - 1:48:17] ▶
No, that this is what happens all over the universe.
[1:48:23 - 1:48:25] ▶
This is what happens.
[1:48:26 - 1:48:27] ▶
Look, here's the thing.
[1:48:27 - 1:48:28] ▶
You know, I went to see Brian Cox's, he has this amazing live show with Robin Ns, where
[1:48:28 - 1:48:35] ▶
they have these LED screens, these huge screens with high resolution depictions of the cosmos.
[1:48:35 - 1:48:42] ▶
And one of the most mind-blowing things was he has this large scale image of the universe
[1:48:42 - 1:48:49] ▶
and it shows all the individual galaxies, the universe, and it just keeps moving through
[1:48:49 - 1:48:54] ▶
all these galaxies in three dimensions and it's fucking incredible.
[1:48:54 - 1:48:58] ▶
But what's stunning is the relative uniformity of it, even at, you know, you're obviously
[1:48:58 - 1:49:03] ▶
looking at an incredibly small depiction of something that's immensely large, like
[1:49:03 - 1:49:09] ▶
a galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars.
[1:49:09 - 1:49:11] ▶
You're seeing it as this little dot, but this little dot that's flying through space
[1:49:11 - 1:49:16] ▶
surrounded by other little darts with very similarly spaced distances.
[1:49:16 - 1:49:22] ▶
Yeah, I'm not doing this all through, yeah.
[1:49:22 - 1:49:23] ▶
So if we see uniformity in that form in terms of the distance between galaxies, like
[1:49:23 - 1:49:29] ▶
so many galaxies, it's so similar.
[1:49:29 - 1:49:31] ▶
They might vary slightly and that slightly might be hundreds of millions of light years,
[1:49:31 - 1:49:35] ▶
But there's so much uniformity.
[1:49:36 - 1:49:38] ▶
Why would we not assume that that uniformity exists pretty much everywhere and that all
[1:49:38 - 1:49:43] ▶
these things that you're seeing that are so similar?
[1:49:43 - 1:49:45] ▶
You do see binary star systems, you do see single star systems, but there's also some speculation
[1:49:45 - 1:49:51] ▶
that Earth and that our solar system was one time was a binary star system, right?
[1:49:51 - 1:49:55] ▶
I mean, that's one of the speculations about that object that they find outside the
[1:49:55 - 1:50:00] ▶
Kuiper belt that the thing is 10 times larger than Earth.
[1:50:00 - 1:50:02] ▶
They think it might have been at one point in time a star, but this uniformity that you
[1:50:02 - 1:50:07] ▶
see, why wouldn't we think that that has its same implications biologically that there's
[1:50:07 - 1:50:13] ▶
some sort of a biological uniformity and that this happens given the right sets of circumstances.
[1:50:13 - 1:50:18] ▶
You should tell them to some of the stuff that you read that you don't know is true.
[1:50:19 - 1:50:23] ▶
I mean, if the stuff was true about the propulsion stuff, I mean, anyway, he...
[1:50:23 - 1:50:28] ▶
Well, what have you read?
[1:50:28 - 1:50:29] ▶
What did you saw, too?
[1:50:29 - 1:50:30] ▶
What are you talking about?
[1:50:30 - 1:50:34] ▶
Spill the beans, Bob.
[1:50:34 - 1:50:36] ▶
I got to poke the bear here.
[1:50:36 - 1:50:37] ▶
I get some more liquor in you.
[1:50:37 - 1:50:41] ▶
Well, I mean, again, the only thing I could verify was what I had my hands on.
[1:50:41 - 1:50:50] ▶
There was talk of weapon systems that there were different projects.
[1:50:50 - 1:50:55] ▶
The Galaleo project sidekick was supposed to be weapon applications of the craft.
[1:50:55 - 1:51:01] ▶
Project looking glass had to do with time, any effects of time in the craft.
[1:51:01 - 1:51:05] ▶
Now I don't think we're not talking about making a time machine like in science fiction,
[1:51:05 - 1:51:11] ▶
but we're talking about small distortions, intentional distortions of time and how that
[1:51:11 - 1:51:16] ▶
can be used, you know, as a...
[1:51:16 - 1:51:20] ▶
Well, it was part of a weapon program.
[1:51:21 - 1:51:22] ▶
How are you informed in this?
[1:51:22 - 1:51:24] ▶
Again, where there's just the small briefings that I read.
[1:51:24 - 1:51:27] ▶
But again, I don't really like to talk about those because I don't have any information
[1:51:27 - 1:51:31] ▶
on them and it was just, you know, small briefings.
[1:51:31 - 1:51:34] ▶
But he told Commander Fraver that what he saw might have been a time dilation in...
[1:51:34 - 1:51:38] ▶
Well, it could be because gravity affects time, you know, space time.
[1:51:38 - 1:51:43] ▶
I'm sure you've heard of that.
[1:51:43 - 1:51:45] ▶
And, you know, what Commander Fraver saw as he was in the F-18 approaching it, he said
[1:51:45 - 1:51:52] ▶
that he described it as a ping pong ball in a cup and shaking it back and forth.
[1:51:52 - 1:51:57] ▶
It was moving that fast.
[1:51:57 - 1:51:59] ▶
Now, obviously, if there's anything inside there, it's going to be battered to hell.
[1:51:59 - 1:52:04] ▶
But, you know, my point was, was that, well, one of two things.
[1:52:04 - 1:52:08] ▶
Either there's a gravitational envelope in there which negates any inertia effects, or
[1:52:08 - 1:52:15] ▶
you are seeing through a gravity distortion field.
[1:52:15 - 1:52:19] ▶
So, you know, just like you're looking at a hot highway and you see, you know, an optical
[1:52:19 - 1:52:26] ▶
distortion going through there, well, the same thing happens in gravity and the craft
[1:52:26 - 1:52:29] ▶
may not actually be moving like that.
[1:52:29 - 1:52:31] ▶
It may just look like it because you're seeing you can only see it through the field.
[1:52:31 - 1:52:37] ▶
So it may be making much more gentle moves.
[1:52:37 - 1:52:40] ▶
I'm not saying that's it, but it has to be one of the two.
[1:52:40 - 1:52:44] ▶
The thing shows up 60 miles away.
[1:52:44 - 1:52:47] ▶
They noticed it on radar, 60 seconds after left commander favorite, but it was at his cap
[1:52:47 - 1:52:52] ▶
point, which is the next point he was destined to go to, 60 miles away.
[1:52:52 - 1:52:58] ▶
And in 60 seconds, on radar, the same object ends up there.
[1:52:58 - 1:53:03] ▶
So, it's going a mile second.
[1:53:03 - 1:53:05] ▶
I think the radar just picked it up in 60 seconds.
[1:53:06 - 1:53:09] ▶
Yeah, I could have been there instantly, but yeah.
[1:53:09 - 1:53:11] ▶
That's the whole thing.
[1:53:13 - 1:53:14] ▶
Oh, so it cycles like radar cycles?
[1:53:14 - 1:53:17] ▶
Yeah, it doesn't sweep, but I mean it scans.
[1:53:17 - 1:53:21] ▶
It's a planar array.
[1:53:22 - 1:53:23] ▶
So it just, you know, it scans around it, it ran the place.
[1:53:23 - 1:53:26] ▶
Does it really cool?
[1:53:27 - 1:53:28] ▶
Yeah, it doesn't do the whole loop anymore.
[1:53:28 - 1:53:30] ▶
The point is though that the craft moved to his next location before he knew where his
[1:53:31 - 1:53:37] ▶
next location was going to be.
[1:53:37 - 1:53:39] ▶
And that's, I mean, that's well documented.
[1:53:40 - 1:53:44] ▶
So that's a pretty shocking piece of information.
[1:53:44 - 1:53:49] ▶
What's fascinating to me too is that you were discussing this, the way this reactor worked
[1:53:49 - 1:53:55] ▶
and that these things were not really connected.
[1:53:55 - 1:53:57] ▶
No, nothing is connected.
[1:53:57 - 1:54:00] ▶
There's no wiring at all.
[1:54:00 - 1:54:05] ▶
That freaks me the fuck out.
[1:54:05 - 1:54:06] ▶
Charge your iPhone, you know.
[1:54:06 - 1:54:07] ▶
Yeah, don't worry about it.
[1:54:07 - 1:54:08] ▶
Yeah, I mean, that's the, that's a simple electromagnetic.
[1:54:09 - 1:54:13] ▶
Yeah, I know again, but that's just simple electromagnetic induction.
[1:54:13 - 1:54:17] ▶
Right, but I mean, Tesla, the scientist had this concept of, that's what he's saying.
[1:54:17 - 1:54:21] ▶
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
[1:54:21 - 1:54:22] ▶
I mean, for other people, I don't know what you're saying.
[1:54:22 - 1:54:24] ▶
He wanted to send wireless electricity through the sky and Westinghouse was like, get the
[1:54:24 - 1:54:28] ▶
fuck out of here with that.
[1:54:28 - 1:54:30] ▶
Like when anybody could just pull electricity out of the sky.
[1:54:30 - 1:54:32] ▶
Yeah, they couldn't, they couldn't, they couldn't.
[1:54:32 - 1:54:34] ▶
We had just talking the car right over and trying to chill him out, you know, we're talking
[1:54:34 - 1:54:37] ▶
He, you know, he couldn't be metered and now it all went down.
[1:54:38 - 1:54:41] ▶
I mean, who knows what would have happened in terms of ventilation?
[1:54:44 - 1:54:47] ▶
How do you been allowed to go forward with that?
[1:54:47 - 1:54:49] ▶
Well, we probably wouldn't have computers.
[1:54:49 - 1:54:52] ▶
Yeah, I'm pretty positive.
[1:54:53 - 1:54:54] ▶
I mean, forget about microelectronics.
[1:54:54 - 1:54:56] ▶
Well, this is dumping huge amounts of electromagnetic energy in the air.
[1:54:56 - 1:55:01] ▶
And yeah, we'd be able to wirelessly turn on our lights, but there'd be no radio communication.
[1:55:01 - 1:55:08] ▶
The interference would be something we could, would be overwhelming.
[1:55:08 - 1:55:11] ▶
It would induce electric currents and anything with a small wire on it.
[1:55:11 - 1:55:15] ▶
So integrated circuits, transistors would be disintegrated before they were even, you
[1:55:15 - 1:55:19] ▶
know, tested for operation.
[1:55:19 - 1:55:21] ▶
So it would, it would destroy, yeah, it would have stopped us dead.
[1:55:21 - 1:55:26] ▶
We'd have, it'd be great.
[1:55:26 - 1:55:27] ▶
You can turn lighters on and heaters from all over the place with no wires, but it would
[1:55:27 - 1:55:31] ▶
stop modern electronics.
[1:55:31 - 1:55:33] ▶
And if we became dependent on it, it would almost be like our dependence on fossil fuels,
[1:55:33 - 1:55:37] ▶
although it's destructive, it's very difficult for us to get off the nipple.
[1:55:37 - 1:55:41] ▶
It would have changed the course of how we developed, which is so interesting when you talk
[1:55:41 - 1:55:45] ▶
about it, a civilization other starsis and didn't even start with fossil fuels.
[1:55:45 - 1:55:49] ▶
They had 115 naturally on their planet.
[1:55:49 - 1:55:51] ▶
And they're like, cool, anti-gravity is pretty awesome.
[1:55:51 - 1:55:53] ▶
Well, the fact that they didn't have it.
[1:55:53 - 1:55:54] ▶
I think it's important that that actually happened.
[1:55:54 - 1:55:57] ▶
It might have been stopped in its tracks for a reason.
[1:55:58 - 1:56:01] ▶
And it's just, I think it's incredibly difficult for us to imagine technological progression
[1:56:02 - 1:56:09] ▶
under another timeline other than the one that we've experienced.
[1:56:09 - 1:56:12] ▶
Yeah, that's difficult.
[1:56:12 - 1:56:14] ▶
If we imagine what this alien race must have been like, and I mean, God, just, just to
[1:56:14 - 1:56:21] ▶
be able to see something, like, I mean, obviously we've seen it in different life forms, right?
[1:56:21 - 1:56:26] ▶
Like we see the life of certain beetles in comparison to the life of certain fish, very,
[1:56:26 - 1:56:31] ▶
very different existence, very different life cycles.
[1:56:31 - 1:56:34] ▶
Yeah, I mean, we see all these different variables in terms of biological entities on
[1:56:36 - 1:56:40] ▶
Earth, but we don't see it in terms of technological innovation as we're the only one that's intelligent
[1:56:40 - 1:56:45] ▶
We have intelligent creatures, but they're in the ocean.
[1:56:46 - 1:56:49] ▶
The only other thing that are like us are dolphins and orcas and whales, and they don't
[1:56:49 - 1:56:53] ▶
have the ability to manipulate their environment.
[1:56:53 - 1:56:55] ▶
And subsequently, because they don't have the ability to manipulate their environment, we
[1:56:55 - 1:56:59] ▶
put them in fish tanks and we're like, get in the tank, do some tricks.
[1:56:59 - 1:57:02] ▶
You know, the only thing he saw in the craft, if we were considering Bob's story, the
[1:57:03 - 1:57:08] ▶
only thing that he saw in the craft that he related to that looked like a human could
[1:57:08 - 1:57:12] ▶
make was this honeycomb hatch.
[1:57:12 - 1:57:14] ▶
And I always loved that because you're like obsessed with this thing that you could recognize.
[1:57:14 - 1:57:18] ▶
You know, the rate, yeah, I only focus on that because it was the one thing that I understood
[1:57:18 - 1:57:24] ▶
It was the access to the level below and it was, well, you know, if you take a, yeah,
[1:57:26 - 1:57:33] ▶
a six pack of beer and you take out the cardboard dividers, set it on the table, you can put
[1:57:33 - 1:57:39] ▶
a lot of pressure on the top.
[1:57:39 - 1:57:42] ▶
But if you push it from the sides, it collapses flat.
[1:57:42 - 1:57:45] ▶
So it was something like that in a honeycomb shape that was essentially some sort of sheet
[1:57:45 - 1:57:50] ▶
And you could walk on that in the upper layer, but if you took the corner, stuck your
[1:57:51 - 1:57:56] ▶
finger and pushed, it collapsed and made an entryway.
[1:57:56 - 1:58:01] ▶
So I thought that was a really unique.
[1:58:01 - 1:58:03] ▶
I'd never seen that before and it was the only thing in the craft that made absolute sense
[1:58:03 - 1:58:07] ▶
I was like, ah, we can make that.
[1:58:08 - 1:58:09] ▶
And all that is as a hatch way.
[1:58:09 - 1:58:11] ▶
Was there any discussion about the materials that were used to make the craft?
[1:58:11 - 1:58:16] ▶
I'm sure there was, but that was a metal energy division.
[1:58:16 - 1:58:18] ▶
It had nothing to do with us.
[1:58:18 - 1:58:20] ▶
You see, you never got a, not even the slightest briefing.
[1:58:20 - 1:58:23] ▶
I don't even know if it was metal or it was ceramic.
[1:58:23 - 1:58:26] ▶
It's, I think there's a fine line between the two.
[1:58:26 - 1:58:30] ▶
Now one of the things that's happened to you that has allowed people to discredit you
[1:58:30 - 1:58:35] ▶
was there's obviously been some sort of an effort to erase your past.
[1:58:35 - 1:58:41] ▶
Some sort of an effort to erase your education history, your employment history at Los Alamos.
[1:58:41 - 1:58:48] ▶
In fact, the only way your employment history was proven at Los Alamos.
[1:58:48 - 1:58:51] ▶
So someone got a list, a directory of the employees from the past and read into it and
[1:58:51 - 1:58:56] ▶
you were on that list.
[1:58:56 - 1:58:58] ▶
So it proved that you worked there even though people were trying to deny it and they were
[1:58:58 - 1:59:00] ▶
trying to use that as a way to discredit you.
[1:59:00 - 1:59:02] ▶
You never did work at Los Alamos.
[1:59:02 - 1:59:03] ▶
You weren't really a scientist.
[1:59:03 - 1:59:06] ▶
What was that like to experience?
[1:59:06 - 1:59:08] ▶
I mean, of course, we're talking about the 1980s, the 1990s when you could get away with
[1:59:08 - 1:59:13] ▶
something like that.
[1:59:13 - 1:59:14] ▶
Yeah, obviously there are a lot less, a lot less records on computers at that time.
[1:59:15 - 1:59:21] ▶
It was still file cabinets and folders.
[1:59:21 - 1:59:23] ▶
But yeah, that was frightening.
[1:59:23 - 1:59:25] ▶
That was one of the first things I heard.
[1:59:25 - 1:59:29] ▶
I think George Napp was the first one that uncovered that.
[1:59:29 - 1:59:32] ▶
I mean, he saw my birth certificate disappear.
[1:59:32 - 1:59:36] ▶
Yeah, there was no record of your being.
[1:59:37 - 1:59:38] ▶
Yeah, there was no record of that.
[1:59:38 - 1:59:40] ▶
There was no record.
[1:59:40 - 1:59:42] ▶
His mom tells me about that.
[1:59:42 - 1:59:44] ▶
It was frightening for her.
[1:59:44 - 1:59:46] ▶
He's got a real family.
[1:59:46 - 1:59:47] ▶
It was frightening for her.
[1:59:48 - 1:59:50] ▶
But if the Los Alamos thing really surprised me and that there was so adamant that no,
[1:59:50 - 1:59:55] ▶
this guy never worked here.
[1:59:55 - 1:59:56] ▶
Don't be ridiculous.
[1:59:56 - 1:59:57] ▶
And George went back and forth for the work.
[1:59:57 - 1:59:59] ▶
I got the letters on the word.
[1:59:59 - 2:00:01] ▶
Months, I mean, it was ridiculous.
[2:00:01 - 2:00:03] ▶
But fortunately, somebody came up with a 1982 phone book directory.
[2:00:03 - 2:00:08] ▶
And also originally, I told you, when I worked there, I was on the front page of the paper.
[2:00:08 - 2:00:16] ▶
So they were still able to archive, bring that back from the archives.
[2:00:16 - 2:00:20] ▶
And you know, Bob was our physicist working here at Los Alamos.
[2:00:20 - 2:00:23] ▶
So there was at least something there.
[2:00:23 - 2:00:26] ▶
But somehow George came up with the phone directory.
[2:00:26 - 2:00:29] ▶
And then, then Bob took George with cameras into Los Alamos.
[2:00:29 - 2:00:33] ▶
So we flew out there and I said, look, come on in.
[2:00:34 - 2:00:37] ▶
I'll show you where I worked.
[2:00:37 - 2:00:38] ▶
We'll meet people and George went with me.
[2:00:39 - 2:00:41] ▶
And you know, we'll navigate the place.
[2:00:41 - 2:00:44] ▶
So you don't have to go in there.
[2:00:44 - 2:00:45] ▶
You know, met people and you know.
[2:00:46 - 2:00:47] ▶
Well, Los Alamos is also the place where they had the machine that was able to read the
[2:00:47 - 2:00:53] ▶
size of your digits.
[2:00:53 - 2:00:54] ▶
No, no, that was awesome.
[2:00:54 - 2:00:55] ▶
So now this was back in the 80s.
[2:00:59 - 2:01:02] ▶
And this is back in the 80s where when you discuss this, people like this doesn't even
[2:01:02 - 2:01:05] ▶
It was a way, you know, this is before fingerprint scanners and, you know, anything of, anything,
[2:01:08 - 2:01:16] ▶
any high resolution scanner at that time.
[2:01:16 - 2:01:18] ▶
So what it was was a device that had a little picture of a hand on a glass plate with pins
[2:01:18 - 2:01:24] ▶
So you could jam your hand in there.
[2:01:25 - 2:01:26] ▶
And there was a bright light above it and a sensor underneath.
[2:01:26 - 2:01:29] ▶
And when you put your hand in there, the light would turn on and it would measure the
[2:01:29 - 2:01:34] ▶
bones in your finger because the light shown through your bones.
[2:01:34 - 2:01:39] ▶
And apparently the length of the bones in your fingers are extremely unique and easy
[2:01:39 - 2:01:45] ▶
And they use that when you put your hands on there, the light would turn on and your
[2:01:46 - 2:01:50] ▶
badge would pop out.
[2:01:50 - 2:01:51] ▶
There's it right there.
[2:01:51 - 2:01:52] ▶
And I tried to describe this to people and they said, that is the most ridiculous thing
[2:01:54 - 2:01:58] ▶
I said, Hey, my badge came out of that thing.
[2:02:01 - 2:02:03] ▶
I put my hand on it, badge popped out.
[2:02:03 - 2:02:05] ▶
And that's how I could open the doors and get into as far.
[2:02:05 - 2:02:09] ▶
And, you know, and everybody discredited that.
[2:02:09 - 2:02:11] ▶
They said it was bullshit.
[2:02:11 - 2:02:12] ▶
It was science fiction.
[2:02:12 - 2:02:13] ▶
And Jeremy, you found this.
[2:02:13 - 2:02:15] ▶
I found it through a good friend of mine named Tyler Rogue away and he had some good sources
[2:02:15 - 2:02:20] ▶
inside of Area 52 where they also used these for the stealth program right around that
[2:02:20 - 2:02:25] ▶
And I've got all these people that worked within who, you know, said only if you're in
[2:02:26 - 2:02:30] ▶
certain programs, would we use this technology?
[2:02:30 - 2:02:32] ▶
It was kind of shit actually.
[2:02:32 - 2:02:33] ▶
They didn't keep it for very long beginning of biometrics.
[2:02:33 - 2:02:36] ▶
So I was able to reveal it in my film.
[2:02:36 - 2:02:38] ▶
I kept my mouth shut until I showed it to Bob, you know, in the movie is the first time
[2:02:38 - 2:02:42] ▶
he saw it was how you see it in the documentary.
[2:02:42 - 2:02:44] ▶
That's his genuine reaction.
[2:02:44 - 2:02:45] ▶
I'm getting goosebumps.
[2:02:45 - 2:02:46] ▶
That was a great idea that the way you did it.
[2:02:46 - 2:02:48] ▶
Thank you, man, because you know, I guess what?
[2:02:48 - 2:02:49] ▶
I'm actually trying to see if he's telling the truth.
[2:02:49 - 2:02:52] ▶
That's how I started.
[2:02:52 - 2:02:53] ▶
You know, that's how I started.
[2:02:53 - 2:02:54] ▶
But it was really cool to see that you get to see it his actual reaction.
[2:02:54 - 2:02:58] ▶
Has that been verified by other people?
[2:02:58 - 2:03:00] ▶
Personally, I get emails every day and people are telling me where these are used and
[2:03:03 - 2:03:07] ▶
how they're used and the semi-photos.
[2:03:07 - 2:03:09] ▶
I got a lot of photos by Danny Mats now.
[2:03:09 - 2:03:11] ▶
How they were used, right?
[2:03:11 - 2:03:12] ▶
I don't, the most recent one was way more recent than I thought in another country.
[2:03:15 - 2:03:18] ▶
But yeah, that technology was used.
[2:03:18 - 2:03:21] ▶
So what's so funny is that this technology, even in the area of 52 where they'd use them
[2:03:21 - 2:03:28] ▶
for Tonapah, one of the guys who will go on camera when he will do an interview with me.
[2:03:28 - 2:03:33] ▶
He was a technician for one of these and he hated them because they were really bad.
[2:03:33 - 2:03:38] ▶
They always broke down and never.
[2:03:38 - 2:03:39] ▶
And he was a technician for him.
[2:03:39 - 2:03:41] ▶
Now he won't tell me where if he worked at Area 52, so it was probably Tonapah.
[2:03:41 - 2:03:46] ▶
It's very separated even on base.
[2:03:46 - 2:03:48] ▶
So, what was your education record that was also like what happened with that?
[2:03:51 - 2:03:57] ▶
Well, that disappeared also.
[2:03:57 - 2:03:59] ▶
You know, that I've never gone anywhere for education.
[2:03:59 - 2:04:05] ▶
I've never attended any classes at Caltech.
[2:04:05 - 2:04:08] ▶
I never attended anything at MIT.
[2:04:08 - 2:04:12] ▶
You did attend classes in those places.
[2:04:12 - 2:04:14] ▶
I did attend classes in those places.
[2:04:14 - 2:04:15] ▶
Do you know anybody that you went to school with?
[2:04:15 - 2:04:18] ▶
And have they verified that they went to school with you?
[2:04:19 - 2:04:21] ▶
Well, I gave Jeremy some names.
[2:04:21 - 2:04:23] ▶
But the reason I don't say these names publicly is because every single time I mention a name,
[2:04:23 - 2:04:30] ▶
somebody gets in trouble.
[2:04:30 - 2:04:32] ▶
They don't want to be.
[2:04:32 - 2:04:33] ▶
But what is that experience like seeing your birth certificate erased, seeing your employment
[2:04:37 - 2:04:43] ▶
Well, it's frightening.
[2:04:44 - 2:04:44] ▶
It's absolutely frightening.
[2:04:44 - 2:04:45] ▶
It's also the fuel that the debunkers use, the so-called air-quote skeptics.
[2:04:45 - 2:04:50] ▶
I don't like the term skeptics.
[2:04:50 - 2:04:51] ▶
I'm going to say this publicly because I really have only said this privately.
[2:04:51 - 2:04:54] ▶
I think it's a sloppy, lazy way to look at things, to just be a skeptic.
[2:04:54 - 2:04:59] ▶
I want people to be objective.
[2:05:00 - 2:05:02] ▶
And I think there's a lot of things you should be skeptical of.
[2:05:02 - 2:05:06] ▶
I think you should look at things and look at things from a hard-line science perspective.
[2:05:06 - 2:05:13] ▶
You should be objective.
[2:05:13 - 2:05:15] ▶
But the idea of skeptics, the problem with that is you're always looking for things to
[2:05:15 - 2:05:18] ▶
And I think that's dangerous because I think some things aren't bullshit.
[2:05:19 - 2:05:22] ▶
It's confirmation bias on the other end.
[2:05:22 - 2:05:24] ▶
You're deciding to take a square thing and put it in a round hole no matter what.
[2:05:24 - 2:05:27] ▶
And I find a lot of them to be lazy.
[2:05:27 - 2:05:30] ▶
A lot of them to be lazy thinkers.
[2:05:30 - 2:05:32] ▶
Because they're always putting it into that box instead of going, hmm, instead of just
[2:05:32 - 2:05:37] ▶
separating their ego, they're playing a game.
[2:05:37 - 2:05:40] ▶
And the game is calling bullshit.
[2:05:40 - 2:05:42] ▶
I want to call bullshit.
[2:05:42 - 2:05:43] ▶
And I'm going to line up all these reasons why it's bullshit.
[2:05:43 - 2:05:45] ▶
And I'm going to ignore anything that might be contrary to that definition.
[2:05:45 - 2:05:49] ▶
Every time I'm thinking I'm going to catch him in something, you know, all along this process,
[2:05:50 - 2:05:54] ▶
I found Dr. Crangle.
[2:05:54 - 2:05:55] ▶
He came forward and said, I was in security briefings with Bob Lazar, the physicist at
[2:05:55 - 2:05:59] ▶
He went on the record with me.
[2:06:00 - 2:06:01] ▶
Now, the other people I talked with, well, I want they go on the record with me.
[2:06:01 - 2:06:05] ▶
Because they're still working there.
[2:06:05 - 2:06:07] ▶
So that's the difference, right?
[2:06:07 - 2:06:08] ▶
What is the, what can the public have?
[2:06:08 - 2:06:10] ▶
Or even if they're not working there, they want to live their lives.
[2:06:10 - 2:06:13] ▶
Well, I mean, obviously people have seen what's happened to you.
[2:06:13 - 2:06:16] ▶
If you look at all the information on, you know, concerning my accounts, that's verifiable,
[2:06:20 - 2:06:27] ▶
it can't possibly be a bullshit story anymore.
[2:06:27 - 2:06:31] ▶
It's really way past that point.
[2:06:31 - 2:06:33] ▶
I mean, that was my thick pen is, I mean, how could I possibly know?
[2:06:34 - 2:06:39] ▶
So Mike Thigpin was the guy that did the security clearances to go to the bait.
[2:06:39 - 2:06:44] ▶
One of the guys that was he's the guy that you work with.
[2:06:44 - 2:06:46] ▶
And George, you know, George didn't believe him.
[2:06:49 - 2:06:51] ▶
George put him through four polygraph tests, right?
[2:06:51 - 2:06:54] ▶
He tried to see, man, this is a big risk.
[2:06:54 - 2:06:56] ▶
It sounds interesting, but let's see if he's telling the truth.
[2:06:56 - 2:07:00] ▶
One of the things was Bob said there was a guy named Mike Thigpin.
[2:07:00 - 2:07:03] ▶
He did security clearances for the base.
[2:07:03 - 2:07:05] ▶
And that's a weird name.
[2:07:05 - 2:07:06] ▶
It's a very specific.
[2:07:06 - 2:07:08] ▶
For 30 years, George found this guy in this weird department that he didn't even know.
[2:07:08 - 2:07:13] ▶
It was Mike Thigpin, but the guy wouldn't talk to me ghost.
[2:07:13 - 2:07:15] ▶
And I'm totally ghosted for 30 years, used Facebook and Google image match through his
[2:07:15 - 2:07:19] ▶
I was able to find him after 30 years.
[2:07:20 - 2:07:23] ▶
And I talked him three times on the phone.
[2:07:23 - 2:07:25] ▶
He lives on the East Coast.
[2:07:25 - 2:07:26] ▶
He almost went on camera with me, confirmed that he did security clearances for the base
[2:07:26 - 2:07:30] ▶
in 1989, confirmed he remembers Bob Lazar.
[2:07:30 - 2:07:34] ▶
And what you don't know is there's a handwritten note that a friend of yours has from Mike.
[2:07:34 - 2:07:39] ▶
I know, I'll give it to you later.
[2:07:40 - 2:07:41] ▶
So handwritten note says what?
[2:07:43 - 2:07:44] ▶
You know, like this is new to me.
[2:07:44 - 2:07:45] ▶
I do security clearances.
[2:07:48 - 2:07:52] ▶
They go through all your friends and family.
[2:07:52 - 2:07:54] ▶
And they go to your friends.
[2:07:54 - 2:07:55] ▶
I had people come to me for a friend of mine that's serving and they are doing a security
[2:07:57 - 2:08:01] ▶
clear cleanse for him.
[2:08:01 - 2:08:02] ▶
And even though I'm like the UFO guy, they did the FBI come and visit my house and make
[2:08:02 - 2:08:07] ▶
sure that they talk about my friend.
[2:08:07 - 2:08:09] ▶
And they left a little card.
[2:08:09 - 2:08:11] ▶
And when my wife told him to get away because you didn't know who they were, they left
[2:08:11 - 2:08:13] ▶
It's super cute now.
[2:08:14 - 2:08:15] ▶
Back then it was a handwritten note.
[2:08:15 - 2:08:17] ▶
His friend has it for him that you haven't seen.
[2:08:17 - 2:08:19] ▶
So if you're listening...
[2:08:21 - 2:08:22] ▶
How can you tell him what it is now?
[2:08:22 - 2:08:24] ▶
It's just a little handwritten note with Mike Thigpin's signature card.
[2:08:27 - 2:08:30] ▶
Like a piece of paper that he left on the door saying when Bob gets back or whatever it says
[2:08:31 - 2:08:37] ▶
So it's just another little funny thing.
[2:08:38 - 2:08:39] ▶
He does the security clearances.
[2:08:40 - 2:08:42] ▶
He was dodging George Napp because when George said his name on the news, he dropped his
[2:08:45 - 2:08:49] ▶
fork into his stake or in newspapers or whatever.
[2:08:49 - 2:08:52] ▶
And he's looking at his wife.
[2:08:52 - 2:08:53] ▶
His name's never supposed to be out there.
[2:08:54 - 2:08:55] ▶
Like it's just a security clearance guy.
[2:08:55 - 2:08:57] ▶
But you don't want national attention associated with anything Bob has to say.
[2:08:57 - 2:09:02] ▶
But anyway, this unique name Bob said for 30 years and the guy ghosted George Napp.
[2:09:02 - 2:09:06] ▶
George could prove he existed.
[2:09:06 - 2:09:08] ▶
He actually talked to me, man.
[2:09:08 - 2:09:09] ▶
He talked to me three times.
[2:09:09 - 2:09:10] ▶
He almost went on camera with me.
[2:09:10 - 2:09:13] ▶
What happens after 30 years?
[2:09:15 - 2:09:16] ▶
You just get more info.
[2:09:16 - 2:09:17] ▶
Well, that's one of the reasons why when you and me and Jeremy and George Napp had
[2:09:17 - 2:09:23] ▶
that conversation on the phone.
[2:09:23 - 2:09:25] ▶
I said, I think what we can do with this podcast is important.
[2:09:25 - 2:09:31] ▶
I think it's important for people to hear this from you in a very clear, just very concise
[2:09:32 - 2:09:41] ▶
And if you examine all the information that you've said today, if you look at all the things
[2:09:43 - 2:09:49] ▶
that the tractors have said, if you look at all of the new recent evidence that's coming
[2:09:49 - 2:09:54] ▶
out and all these really high level people in the military and the government that are
[2:09:54 - 2:09:59] ▶
discussing this, it gives you far more credibility than you would have had in the 19 years when
[2:09:59 - 2:10:08] ▶
You can't ignore your story just because you don't like it anymore.
[2:10:10 - 2:10:13] ▶
That's why I thought it was important that you come out and refresh the world's memory
[2:10:13 - 2:10:17] ▶
and let people know.
[2:10:17 - 2:10:18] ▶
And like I said, I've been...
[2:10:18 - 2:10:19] ▶
I mean, I want to say I'm a fan of yours, but I guess I'm a fan of yours.
[2:10:19 - 2:10:23] ▶
But I've been following you for decades.
[2:10:25 - 2:10:27] ▶
I've been following the story for decades.
[2:10:27 - 2:10:28] ▶
I mean, I'm kidding.
[2:10:28 - 2:10:29] ▶
Bob, like a lot of the world has.
[2:10:30 - 2:10:33] ▶
Well, anybody that has any sort of a vested interest or just a even a just a fascination with UFOs
[2:10:35 - 2:10:43] ▶
has followed your story because there's no one else.
[2:10:43 - 2:10:47] ▶
There's no one else that comes for this.
[2:10:47 - 2:10:49] ▶
Some guy who said, I worked on the ground with the aliens and they shot my hand off.
[2:10:49 - 2:10:52] ▶
There's a bunch of wacky dudes that are underground.
[2:10:52 - 2:10:55] ▶
They're shooting lasers through the earth's crust and they move them.
[2:10:56 - 2:10:58] ▶
There's a lot of those guys.
[2:10:59 - 2:11:00] ▶
They seem schizophrenic.
[2:11:00 - 2:11:01] ▶
They might even be disinformation agents.
[2:11:02 - 2:11:05] ▶
They might be people that are designed to muddy the waters, which for sure has happened.
[2:11:05 - 2:11:09] ▶
People are coming forward though now.
[2:11:09 - 2:11:11] ▶
By doing this, what you're doing, you're providing an opportunity to just for Bob to tell a story.
[2:11:12 - 2:11:16] ▶
Believe it or not, he can tell a story.
[2:11:16 - 2:11:18] ▶
It's amazing because more people will come forward now that are involved with these projects.
[2:11:18 - 2:11:24] ▶
They'll come forward with you to meet.
[2:11:24 - 2:11:26] ▶
They're coming forward.
[2:11:26 - 2:11:27] ▶
What you've done here is provide that opportunity if they need it.
[2:11:27 - 2:11:31] ▶
I just want to say Bob.
[2:11:32 - 2:11:33] ▶
Just don't come forward to me.
[2:11:33 - 2:11:34] ▶
No, don't come forward to Bob.
[2:11:34 - 2:11:36] ▶
Why were you freaking nauseous at the beginning of this?
[2:11:36 - 2:11:40] ▶
Why did you have a migraine?
[2:11:42 - 2:11:43] ▶
That started off so hard.
[2:11:43 - 2:11:45] ▶
My God, I was sitting here like this.
[2:11:45 - 2:11:46] ▶
Why are you asking them why?
[2:11:46 - 2:11:47] ▶
Because anxiety, the guy's gone through 30 fucking years of being persecuted.
[2:11:47 - 2:11:51] ▶
I just want to hear him say that.
[2:11:51 - 2:11:53] ▶
I just want to hear him say that.
[2:11:53 - 2:11:55] ▶
Why do I have to say that?
[2:11:55 - 2:11:56] ▶
You don't just say it.
[2:11:56 - 2:11:57] ▶
Yeah, well, I get it.
[2:12:00 - 2:12:03] ▶
It was hard for you to get him here.
[2:12:03 - 2:12:06] ▶
You don't want to get him here.
[2:12:07 - 2:12:08] ▶
What really annoys me are the people that think, you guys just came up with the story
[2:12:08 - 2:12:14] ▶
to make a bunch of money or get a bunch of attention.
[2:12:14 - 2:12:16] ▶
That's a good point.
[2:12:16 - 2:12:17] ▶
Please explain that.
[2:12:17 - 2:12:18] ▶
First of all, I don't get any money out of this at all.
[2:12:18 - 2:12:21] ▶
And I didn't even let you guys buy plane tickets for me to come out here or anything.
[2:12:21 - 2:12:26] ▶
I mean, anytime, like when Jeremy Previewed, I guess, the movie up in Michigan, I mean,
[2:12:26 - 2:12:35] ▶
it brought in like a couple thousand dollars.
[2:12:35 - 2:12:37] ▶
I made sure that two thousand dollars went to science programs at the local high schools
[2:12:37 - 2:12:42] ▶
I don't take any money from this stuff.
[2:12:44 - 2:12:46] ▶
And as far as attention, I hate fucking attention.
[2:12:46 - 2:12:51] ▶
I don't like being on shows.
[2:12:51 - 2:12:52] ▶
I just want to kind of hide in the corner and do my own thing.
[2:12:52 - 2:12:56] ▶
So that's, I got enough hugs when I was a kid.
[2:12:56 - 2:12:58] ▶
Okay, I don't need any attention.
[2:12:58 - 2:13:00] ▶
So now that if you think somehow we came up with this thing, then you got to tell me why
[2:13:00 - 2:13:07] ▶
Well, you've done a great job of making sure you have your basis covered in that regard
[2:13:08 - 2:13:12] ▶
that you haven't profited off of this.
[2:13:12 - 2:13:14] ▶
And like you said, that you have donated whatever money that came your way to science programs.
[2:13:14 - 2:13:18] ▶
It's, I mean, it doesn't make any sense any other way.
[2:13:18 - 2:13:23] ▶
I mean, what you're, what I've gotten out of here is what I thought I was going to get
[2:13:23 - 2:13:27] ▶
out of here when I watched a documentary that you, what you're saying makes sense.
[2:13:27 - 2:13:32] ▶
It doesn't make sense that it's bullshit.
[2:13:32 - 2:13:33] ▶
I'd happened exactly like I said it did, Joe.
[2:13:33 - 2:13:36] ▶
In closing, is there anything else you'd like to say?
[2:13:38 - 2:13:42] ▶
No, I can't think of anything other than really don't come and try to visit me.
[2:13:43 - 2:13:46] ▶
Well, I know that you have paid a huge personal cost to get this information out.
[2:13:49 - 2:13:55] ▶
And I mean, maybe you didn't understand what that cost would have been when you first
[2:13:55 - 2:13:58] ▶
initially came forward with a story.
[2:13:58 - 2:14:00] ▶
But over the past 30 years, it's been immense.
[2:14:00 - 2:14:03] ▶
And I just want to thank you for that.
[2:14:04 - 2:14:06] ▶
And thank you for all, all these people that would not have gotten this information,
[2:14:06 - 2:14:10] ▶
it would not have really had this story any other way.
[2:14:10 - 2:14:13] ▶
And thank you, Jeremy.
[2:14:15 - 2:14:16] ▶
And one more time, the documentary's available on Netflix right now.
[2:14:16 - 2:14:19] ▶
Yeah, it's called Bob Lazar, Area 51 and Flying Saucers.
[2:14:19 - 2:14:23] ▶