5,016 segments
What's up, Danny Jones?
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Like I just said to you, bro, you're going to have to pull me back into the believer,
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make me a believer again because the more shit I learn about UFOs, the more I am just
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out on this topic lately.
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It's understandable and I'm not here to bring you back.
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I'm not an evangelist.
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I do think if the question is, is the topic worthy of further investigation and is there
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something very interesting at the bottom of all of this?
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You get to the final room.
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Is there something interesting going on?
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My answer would be, I think, yes.
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But yeah, I don't want to evangelize.
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I think in many ways, interest in UFOs is maladaptive and a distraction for a lot of people and
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There's a lot of shit you got to cut through, bro.
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Not just the—if you want to talk about, like, siaop stuff, like, sure, there's a lot
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of stuff you got to cut through with that.
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But then there's a whole other layer of people monetizing this.
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There's a business, right?
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Like, we're doing a podcast in a spaceship about UFOs because my audience is like,
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this loves UFOs and I'm going to make money talking about UFOs.
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Half the books on that shelf are about, can UFOs.
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So it's a huge business, too, which muddies the water even more.
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It totally muddies the water and it's a weird dynamic.
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And I think when you have a topic that's kind of pointing at the sacred, you know, it
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might be the tip of the iceberg.
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It's not the rest of the iceberg.
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Like, it's just an unidentified flying object.
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It's not necessarily what you're going for.
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I think a lot of people that are into it are like, ultimately, meaning seekers and they
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want, like, kind of—they want to understand the reality of religion.
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They want to understand metaphysics.
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And so I think UFOs are just a foray.
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They're just one kind of route in.
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But I think combining that with money is a very weird thing.
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I mean, then it's like sort of the modern—modern Catholic indulgences or something.
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It doesn't really work.
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So we were just talking before we started rolling about that movie, The Adjustment Bureau.
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And there's some crazy people, like some deep dark secretive people in this whole UFO world
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that aren't public that—I guess we can talk about the guy, right?
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Like he's fully—the reason I'm scared of talking about this guy is because my podcast
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is with Chris Bledso.
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Completely got nuked off YouTube.
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Yeah, should we tell this story?
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Because he told me some really interesting stuff on a phone call.
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What did I tell you?
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Well, you said that—
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You do sound, Chris.
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You said that the views were like—it was like doing 50K a day.
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And then it cuts off.
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You speak to some rep at Google and they're like, we don't know what the hell happened
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It doesn't make any sense.
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Yeah, I'm going to click the rate average, V duration, which should basically define
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the video's performance.
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He goes, the one other time I've seen this is with Jesse's David Grush video.
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Performance fell off a cliff.
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And then he said that my video with Bledso and your video with Grush, neither of them broke
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any YouTube rules or had any internal red flags that he was able to see.
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And he goes, whenever this happens, which has happened one other time recently with David
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Grush, it's basically the floor above me that I have no access to.
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Something above my head that I don't know what the hell is going on.
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So what the hell is going on?
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Why are they doing this?
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Erasing podcasts with people who talk about getting abducted by aliens off of the internet.
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I feel like they have way bigger fish to fry.
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You would think, I don't know.
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There's something very interesting about Chris Bledso's story.
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It's like, why is Jim Semy van very high up at the CIA?
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Why is he showing up at Chris Bledso's place in Fayetteville, North Carolina?
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When he starts to kind of attract ephos, he talks to the lady or whatever.
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You know the whole story.
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He's definitely attracted the attention of some very interesting people.
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We were just talking about Tim Taylor.
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Yes, that's the guy.
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I would always mention, Cedonimously, he was written about in this great book by Diane
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and Pousselca, Religious Studies professor called American Cosmic.
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And then he was kind of doxed by Chris Bledso on your show, actually.
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I think I thought that that might have been the reason that that video got completely blasted
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off the face of YouTube because of him talking about him.
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Because of on that guy.
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And I have all these connections that he allegedly has.
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I could probably make a call or any sudden an email to somebody YouTube being like, nuke
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Well, that's what, and Bledso even says in the story that Tim Taylor gives him a whole
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And then he says, you can't send this to anybody.
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And then he like sends the email or something to his wife or like, I don't know, somebody
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very close and immediately gets a call from Tim being like, knowing that he forwarded
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And so, you know, who knows if that's like a test and like, you know, they're just sort
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of being sia, opt or I don't know.
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I think even Bledso thinks that, you know, maybe he was being messed with initially when
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he sort of entered his life.
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And even when he was, I think he was giving him a tour of like Kennedy Space Center.
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He said, he said, when you walk through the security, when you walk past the security
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tower, he goes, just play a song in your head.
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So they can't access your thoughts.
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So they can't access your thoughts, right?
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And I asked him like, what?
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I'm like, who's in there?
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And he was very, he didn't know.
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He's like, mine readers.
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I don't know if they're aliens or humans, but they read your minds.
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And then he also said some sh** that I'm like, I don't even know if I want to say on camera.
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But he like, say it, Danny.
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He told me some stuff.
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Essentially, I'll make it, I'll dumb it down.
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So it's not too technical, but he basically told me that this fella showed him a real
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life men and black Nourilizer.
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That wipes your memory.
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This is what he told me.
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How can you know it's a Nourilizer?
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We actually cut the segment out of the podcast because I was like, there's no f**king way
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I'm putting this on the podcast.
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It was like a five, it was like a 10 minute chunk of that blood soap podcast where he explains
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everything about it, how it works, where they got it from.
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Why didn't they Nourilize him after they described the whole thing?
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That would seem like you would think they would want to do that, right?
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But like that is, essentially, is like one of the explanation for the missing time stuff
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and he had another story about missing time when they were like walking through a forest.
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I'm not sure if you're familiar with that one, but like they were walking him and Tim were
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walking through a forest with somebody like looking for something and then all of a sudden
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that like they started over.
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Well, like they almost like started back to where they were an hour ago with like in an
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Almost it was like a loop, like they looped through time or something.
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Well, I just, you know, we were talking earlier about I did a piece on this guy, Thomas Towns
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and Brown, who I think is just a fascinating character.
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One of the best documentaries I've ever seen.
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He's, I think like a forgotten hero in American history.
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I think he made all sorts of breakthroughs in the world of gravity.
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But in general relativity, gravity and time are related.
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So the kind of subplot of his whole biography, it's a great biography called The Man Who
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Master Gravity by a guy named Paul Schatzkin.
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I recommend you all read it.
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The subplot is that he's obsessed with time travel.
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And he talks about time travel constantly with his wife Josephine, his daughter Linda.
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And here's where it gets really weird.
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Apparently, Tim Taylor told Chris Bledso that he was part of a secret time travel group
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in NASA and the Bahamas.
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And the president of that group was Thomas Townsend Brown.
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Now I would think that was total, I would dismiss that out of hand.
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I would be like, that's, you know, that sort of, you know, madness.
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But I know from my own research, independent research on Thomas Townsend Brown, he spent
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a ton of time in NASA and the Bahamas.
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And he was just extremely interested in time travel.
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And it was, he was spending a lot of time with this guy William Stevenson, who was James Bond's
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Or sorry, he was the inspiration for James Bond.
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He was Winston Churchill's super spy.
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He was, you know, in Fleming's inspiration for James Bond.
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He's just like fascinating kind of, you know, coordinating a lot with Wild Bill Donovan
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early, Oss, or late Oss, you know, early CIA involved in the formation of the CIA was working
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out of the Rockefeller Center in New York and kind of calling a lot of interesting shots
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as, you know, almost part of like a shadow government, if you will.
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So he's close with Thomas Townsend Brown.
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They're in the Bahamas a lot.
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And then you have, you know, Ryan Bletsow saying that Tim Taylor told his father that he's
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part of the secret time travel group with Thomas Townsend Brown.
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Just very, very interesting.
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And then, and then you, you know, we were talking about this before the show.
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You said, you know, that Tim Taylor told Chris Bletsow that the adjustment bureau was like,
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you know, his life or whatever.
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And that's all about like changing one little variable.
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Like it's like if I were to freeze this room and like, I don't know, move your mic like
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a little bit, right?
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And you get this butterfly, butterfly effect style, multiplicative effect down the line
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or whatever of like, you know, changing timelines.
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It sounds kind of crazy.
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It's a complete madness.
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And a science fiction.
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And I'm not proposing that that's, you know, a real thing, but it is fascinating that
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there are some connections there.
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And then the final thing, the final connection I made is Townsend Brown's daughter is an
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She was in the documentary, right?
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She was in the documentary on the phone call in her name's Linda Brown, but it was Linda
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And she has an Amazon review on Tim Taylor's biography.
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Tim Taylor's biography is called Launch Fever.
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And I think he wrote 2003, 2004.
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And in 2012 or 2013 or 2014, like early, well before Diana Pasolka even pseudonymously
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published about Tim Taylor under the pseudonym Tyler in American Cosmic in 2018, Linda Leach
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is writing a review on Launch Fever saying this is, you know, a wonderful homage to, you
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know, the space program or whatever.
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So clearly there's a connection between Townsend Brown and Tim Taylor, which is, that's,
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it's pretty interesting.
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So you have this mid-century inventor who I think, I mean, at the very least, like we have
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an FBI file on Thomas Townsend Brown saying he was the lead radar scientist in the entire
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Like this guy's a real guy.
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You can say he didn't crack anti-gravity.
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I'm like totally open to that.
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Like you have to think probabilistically around that.
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I have a lot of evidence that he did.
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You can, but say he didn't do that or whatever.
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He's like a very real guy and he's talking about time travel constantly.
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And then there's this really interesting connection with a modern NASA mission controller.
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I don't understand it.
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Going to the, like the adjustment bureau comment that he made.
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Do you think that there's a thing that happens to people?
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And I wouldn't know because I don't have the personal experience.
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But do you think it's possible there's something that happens to somebody or certain individuals
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when they have tons of super, super top secret information that they have and nobody else
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has where they sort of feel like their life is for lack of a better term.
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They're living the Da Vinci code.
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And they sort of like fall into that and they sort of like look through their entire
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life at that, through that lens, right?
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Like, like I am living, I am living this movie or like I am the superhero character because
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I hold these secrets that like literally would change the power balance of the world if
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I wonder what that does to your brain.
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You know what I mean?
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I do wonder that as well.
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And then I wonder how much of it is like human clearance systems versus like have you ever
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experienced synchronicities in your life?
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Things popping up showing up like really cool, interesting, fun way.
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So maybe there are people that are more tapped into that in a sort of a weird way.
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Well, that's what this guy tries to do, right?
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He's trying to tap into this other thing.
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He's trying to get these downloads that she's in her new book.
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She talks about like all these Diana Pasolka in her new, I forget they were her new book.
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She taught in that one.
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She talks about encounters.
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But about Diana Pasolka.
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All these protocols that he goes through every day by not drinking coffee and like going
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outside, getting sunlight and all this stuff in the morning and like trying to download
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some sort of cosmic shit so we can make more patterns.
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Yeah, it sounds so loo-woop.
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And like, you know, I don't know what to say about it.
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I think that's more how thinking works than the average person realizes.
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You know, I'm a big fan of the transmission theory of consciousness.
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When you're daydreaming, you're not actively producing those thoughts, right?
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It's like you're like a receptacle for the thoughts.
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And so I think it's this like, it's an important kind of epistemological question.
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And is are we locally producing the content in our minds?
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Are we somehow downloading them from elsewhere?
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I think that is probably going to be proven by some sort of, you know, scientific model
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Right now, electromagnetism, as we know it, decays in attenuates over space time.
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So we don't have a good model for like how that transmission might occur, you know, like
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neutrino information transfer.
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But increasingly, in Vogue is this extended electrodynamics model, which, you know, NASA
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and not the DOE, the National Science Foundation in NASA just launched this podcast and like
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how put off and all these interesting like kind of figures in UFO world, but also with
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some pretty impressive Bonafide's just in science as well.
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You got a former skunkwork sky, you know, some Navy scientists.
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And they're all speaking about extended electrodynamics.
[0:16:08 - 0:16:10] ▶
This is basically a model that involves a scalar field.
[0:16:10 - 0:16:14] ▶
So unlike classical electrodynamics, you don't get the attenuation over space time.
[0:16:14 - 0:16:20] ▶
So you can have basically in classical electrodynamics, you just have one electromagnetic wave, a transverse
[0:16:20 - 0:16:25] ▶
So you have a magnetic field, an electric field, and wave propagation, and all three are
[0:16:27 - 0:16:33] ▶
perpendicular to one another.
[0:16:33 - 0:16:34] ▶
And so because of that, you get this attenuation, you get electrons pairing off, and you get this
[0:16:34 - 0:16:39] ▶
decay function on the signal.
[0:16:39 - 0:16:41] ▶
But in the scalar field, you can get scalar longitudinal waves, you get all these interesting
[0:16:41 - 0:16:45] ▶
wave types, and you don't get the same decay.
[0:16:45 - 0:16:49] ▶
And so maybe we are downloading thoughts via one of these sort of scalar field waves.
[0:16:49 - 0:16:55] ▶
That would just be one thought experiment.
[0:16:55 - 0:16:56] ▶
But I do think something like that will get proven out.
[0:16:57 - 0:17:00] ▶
Just given the phenomenology of thought or invention, where a wheel pops up in after
[0:17:00 - 0:17:04] ▶
Africa at the same time as South America.
[0:17:04 - 0:17:06] ▶
You look at the phenomenology of science, it looks way more like revelation than it does.
[0:17:07 - 0:17:12] ▶
Quantum mechanics or something.
[0:17:12 - 0:17:14] ▶
It looks like something's popping into the person's head every single time, whether it's
[0:17:14 - 0:17:17] ▶
derock staring at the fire at Cambridge, coming up with the derock equation or Einstein
[0:17:17 - 0:17:21] ▶
at his desk as a patent clerk.
[0:17:21 - 0:17:22] ▶
Like it literally, the exception to the rule is like, I just finished the equation on the
[0:17:22 - 0:17:28] ▶
No, you're like in the shower, you're like, there's so many examples.
[0:17:29 - 0:17:34] ▶
So yeah, I think, you know, Heisenberg at Helgelland, you know, making all these downloads
[0:17:34 - 0:17:40] ▶
about, you know, how, you know, electrons make quantum leaps and, you know, electron
[0:17:40 - 0:17:44] ▶
Like, it's just, it's sort of constant.
[0:17:45 - 0:17:46] ▶
So I, so Tim Taylor saying that it's like, yeah, I think that's real.
[0:17:46 - 0:17:51] ▶
But, and then, and then, I don't know.
[0:17:51 - 0:17:53] ▶
It's hard to sift through some of the other questions.
[0:17:53 - 0:17:55] ▶
I'm not, I don't want to endorse any of the stuff that he says is definitively real, but
[0:17:55 - 0:17:58] ▶
He seems like the most, I mean, it's because he's so elusive, I think, is making it, makes
[0:17:59 - 0:18:02] ▶
You know, especially the way she talks about some of the stuff that he was involved with,
[0:18:04 - 0:18:07] ▶
like, like, you've met the dude, right?
[0:18:07 - 0:18:09] ▶
I had, I had like a 20 minute call with him.
[0:18:10 - 0:18:12] ▶
How did that come about?
[0:18:14 - 0:18:15] ▶
I can't say because I will say anything on any podcast, I'll always be public, but I
[0:18:15 - 0:18:20] ▶
want to protect sources.
[0:18:20 - 0:18:22] ▶
Yeah, sources, exactly.
[0:18:22 - 0:18:23] ▶
I just don't want to like burn relationships.
[0:18:23 - 0:18:25] ▶
Can you tell what you talked about him with?
[0:18:26 - 0:18:28] ▶
What you talked about with him?
[0:18:28 - 0:18:30] ▶
The impetus on my end.
[0:18:32 - 0:18:34] ▶
So I always, I invest.
[0:18:34 - 0:18:35] ▶
I have to adventure cap it up.
[0:18:36 - 0:18:38] ▶
Steven, did you leave your phone out?
[0:18:39 - 0:18:41] ▶
We got to put our phones out there.
[0:18:41 - 0:18:42] ▶
We got Palantir in the building, bro.
[0:18:42 - 0:18:44] ▶
We can't let all our employees suck the whole phone out of you.
[0:18:44 - 0:18:48] ▶
He's a Palantir honey trap.
[0:18:48 - 0:18:49] ▶
You're furthering the internet.
[0:18:52 - 0:18:55] ▶
Daddy, come on, man.
[0:18:56 - 0:18:57] ▶
So what you talked about on Julian Doris podcast, a great podcast.
[0:18:59 - 0:19:02] ▶
You guys went into like your whole background into investing and how you, you're investing,
[0:19:02 - 0:19:06] ▶
basically you invest Peter Teals money.
[0:19:06 - 0:19:08] ▶
So I worked at the family office for a long amount of time and even now I still have a contract
[0:19:14 - 0:19:19] ▶
with them and I do investing.
[0:19:19 - 0:19:21] ▶
But I mainly focus on the show.
[0:19:22 - 0:19:23] ▶
It's like 90, 95% show at this point.
[0:19:23 - 0:19:27] ▶
So one of the companies that I was invested in was a rocket company and they were struggling.
[0:19:28 - 0:19:34] ▶
Rocket trees incredibly hard.
[0:19:34 - 0:19:36] ▶
It's got a very high failure rate.
[0:19:36 - 0:19:39] ▶
I mean, the amount of, you're talking about like thousands of sub components like one
[0:19:41 - 0:19:44] ▶
thing fails and get this chain reaction.
[0:19:44 - 0:19:46] ▶
The whole thing screws up.
[0:19:46 - 0:19:50] ▶
We had had a couple of failures and I always try to keep my investment stuff.
[0:19:50 - 0:19:57] ▶
And the quacky stuff that I'm into, I was trying to keep those separate for many reasons.
[0:19:57 - 0:20:06] ▶
But I'm kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as, you know, it's like,
[0:20:06 - 0:20:09] ▶
we're struggling to get off the ground.
[0:20:09 - 0:20:11] ▶
Start up rocket company.
[0:20:12 - 0:20:13] ▶
It's a start up rocket company.
[0:20:14 - 0:20:15] ▶
And so I know about Tim Taylor being this NASA mission controller, he uses consciousness
[0:20:16 - 0:20:21] ▶
protocols to get rockets off the ground.
[0:20:21 - 0:20:23] ▶
And I also know about the history of rocketry where it's like Jack Parsons, the founder of
[0:20:23 - 0:20:28] ▶
And basically the American rocket program or Chakowski, the equivalent in Russia or Werner
[0:20:29 - 0:20:34] ▶
von Brahlik, all of these guys believed in versions of this.
[0:20:34 - 0:20:37] ▶
So I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel.
[0:20:37 - 0:20:38] ▶
Basically, like in my, you know, in putting my investment hat on, I'm like, I'm a materialist
[0:20:40 - 0:20:44] ▶
Like I don't want to bring the woo woo stuff in.
[0:20:45 - 0:20:46] ▶
But again, it's, you know, I'm like, if I have access to this guy, I got to, you know,
[0:20:46 - 0:20:52] ▶
find a way to meet him.
[0:20:52 - 0:20:53] ▶
Pretend I'm not interested in UFOs.
[0:20:54 - 0:20:55] ▶
Well, actually, that was literally the impetus actually was like helping on the rocket
[0:21:01 - 0:21:05] ▶
So it actually wasn't as much like the UFO thing.
[0:21:06 - 0:21:09] ▶
And so yeah, we spoke and he said some interesting stuff.
[0:21:10 - 0:21:12] ▶
He was like, he's, you know, most of it was actually kind of very like, like kind of platitudes
[0:21:12 - 0:21:17] ▶
around the American cosmic style stuff.
[0:21:17 - 0:21:19] ▶
Like, you know, use these protocols and tap in and like don't use your phone.
[0:21:19 - 0:21:23] ▶
I was like, I already read that in the, you know, book that Pissolka, you know, published,
[0:21:23 - 0:21:26] ▶
And then he was also like, look, if you want the rocket to work, you know, maybe you
[0:21:27 - 0:21:32] ▶
have to get aligned with what they want.
[0:21:32 - 0:21:34] ▶
And I was like, who is it?
[0:21:34 - 0:21:35] ▶
They, you know, like the non-human intelligence.
[0:21:35 - 0:21:37] ▶
He said this to you, knowing that you weren't, you didn't bring, you didn't bring this
[0:21:37 - 0:21:40] ▶
He brought it up first?
[0:21:41 - 0:21:42] ▶
No, I brought it up.
[0:21:42 - 0:21:43] ▶
I, I, I, I didn't bring it.
[0:21:43 - 0:21:44] ▶
I didn't bring it, didn't bring up non-human intelligence first.
[0:21:44 - 0:21:47] ▶
He was the one that said it.
[0:21:47 - 0:21:48] ▶
I just asked questions about rocket.
[0:21:49 - 0:21:50] ▶
I just, I just, I just, I just, I was just asking questions about the rocket and getting
[0:21:52 - 0:21:58] ▶
And so did you ask, did you follow up on that when he was like, they, did you ask who
[0:22:01 - 0:22:05] ▶
I don't remember exactly, I mean, I'm sure I did.
[0:22:07 - 0:22:11] ▶
And I'm sure, I was sure that when he said they, he was talking about non-human intelligence,
[0:22:11 - 0:22:15] ▶
either due to a follow up question that I asked or something he made that kind of clear
[0:22:15 - 0:22:19] ▶
I don't know what to make of this stuff, man.
[0:22:21 - 0:22:22] ▶
I mean, he even said, like apparently, like, he knows Elon, right?
[0:22:22 - 0:22:26] ▶
He has to know Elon.
[0:22:26 - 0:22:27] ▶
He works for Elon and SpaceX and like watches the rockets and supposedly is part of NRO where
[0:22:27 - 0:22:33] ▶
they have to like watch everything that happens around the rocket with the satellites and
[0:22:33 - 0:22:37] ▶
I don't, I don't know.
[0:22:39 - 0:22:41] ▶
You know, I've heard that and Poussalk has tweeted that and but yeah, I think he does work
[0:22:41 - 0:22:47] ▶
occasionally with, with Elon.
[0:22:47 - 0:22:48] ▶
I know he works on some, I think, you know, some serious launches.
[0:22:48 - 0:22:52] ▶
He also works at aerospace corporation, which is a very interesting company.
[0:22:52 - 0:22:56] ▶
Sort of like remind me what that one is.
[0:22:56 - 0:23:00] ▶
They're like a, I think they're kind of like a think tank.
[0:23:00 - 0:23:02] ▶
They have like 5,000 employees split between Virginia and, you know, Fairfax area and
[0:23:02 - 0:23:07] ▶
And I think that yeah, they show up in interesting places around the question for sure.
[0:23:09 - 0:23:16] ▶
Aerospace corporation.
[0:23:16 - 0:23:17] ▶
Like my world got turned upside down when, when, I wish I talked about it after nauseam
[0:23:20 - 0:23:24] ▶
on the show, but like when Blitz Oak came in here and talked about this stuff.
[0:23:24 - 0:23:27] ▶
And then after recently after that, I became aware of the Miragement documentary, which flipped
[0:23:27 - 0:23:34] ▶
my world upside down again.
[0:23:34 - 0:23:36] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[0:23:36 - 0:23:37] ▶
And I've been looking at this whole topic through that lens ever since then.
[0:23:37 - 0:23:42] ▶
And it really makes a ton of sense.
[0:23:43 - 0:23:44] ▶
Well, there, yeah, I mean, that's an example of like, should we like talk about?
[0:23:45 - 0:23:49] ▶
So this guy Paul Benowitz is inside currently in Air Force Base.
[0:23:49 - 0:23:51] ▶
He sees this like vertical take off and landing occur of probably some exotic, you know, craft
[0:23:51 - 0:23:58] ▶
or whatever, which to me doesn't mean look away.
[0:23:58 - 0:24:00] ▶
It's like, what is that?
[0:24:00 - 0:24:01] ▶
What's the initial thing you saw?
[0:24:01 - 0:24:03] ▶
And then Rick Dota used an Air Force Office of Special Investigations officer.
[0:24:03 - 0:24:07] ▶
He's into his life and kind of drives him crazy.
[0:24:07 - 0:24:10] ▶
He's told that he's communicating with aliens via these say nose.
[0:24:10 - 0:24:12] ▶
And say he's across the street beaming sh into his house, telling him they're aliens that
[0:24:12 - 0:24:17] ▶
are like running out of gas on their planet and they're on their way here.
[0:24:17 - 0:24:20] ▶
So now, like so, so after watching the documentary and learning the story of this guy,
[0:24:24 - 0:24:28] ▶
Paul Benowitz and seeing how this this world really works behind the scenes, like I have
[0:24:28 - 0:24:34] ▶
to just assume that most of this stuff that is going on is just super secret military
[0:24:34 - 0:24:38] ▶
And there's a huge apparatus and bureaucracy of people behind the scenes that are just
[0:24:39 - 0:24:45] ▶
involved in making information murkier, right?
[0:24:45 - 0:24:50] ▶
And like what they were doing with Paul, if I understand it correctly, was they were
[0:24:50 - 0:24:53] ▶
trying, because he was in the UFO field, it was part of Mufon and all this stuff.
[0:24:53 - 0:24:56] ▶
So they were trying to use him as a conduit of dissent, felt a poison the well.
[0:24:56 - 0:24:59] ▶
And because they knew there was also Russian spies in the UFO community out west.
[0:25:00 - 0:25:05] ▶
So they thought, okay, if we can just throw a couple curveballs through Paul Benowitz,
[0:25:05 - 0:25:09] ▶
it'll throw off the Russians and they won't know what we really have going on.
[0:25:09 - 0:25:12] ▶
So now I look at people like in the media today, like, and I don't, I'm, you're gonna have
[0:25:13 - 0:25:17] ▶
to explain this up to me better, but like people like Grush, people like all these whistleblowers,
[0:25:17 - 0:25:22] ▶
people like, uh, blood so like, okay, is he Paul Benowitz?
[0:25:22 - 0:25:26] ▶
Is he a Paul Benowitz?
[0:25:26 - 0:25:27] ▶
Is he a Paul Benowitz?
[0:25:27 - 0:25:28] ▶
There's like CIA people, NSA people, in our people, so like, the guy that he talked about
[0:25:29 - 0:25:36] ▶
that mapped the moon for the Apollo missions was like visiting him and like befriending
[0:25:36 - 0:25:40] ▶
him and telling him all this secret stuff.
[0:25:40 - 0:25:43] ▶
And then like, God, dude, it's just, it's too much.
[0:25:44 - 0:25:48] ▶
Yeah, it's extremely confusing.
[0:25:48 - 0:25:50] ▶
I mean, here's what I would say.
[0:25:50 - 0:25:52] ▶
That seems like a massive waste of resources, like to what end?
[0:25:52 - 0:25:56] ▶
Why are you getting all these kind of super high up guys at NASA's CIA to visit this guy?
[0:25:57 - 0:26:04] ▶
Driving to North Carolina from, from the middle of Florida.
[0:26:04 - 0:26:09] ▶
So but that points to there being some real like proto architecture underneath, like,
[0:26:09 - 0:26:13] ▶
there's a different, you can try to, you can attempt to manipulate or like shade a thing
[0:26:13 - 0:26:17] ▶
And I'm, by the way, I'm not saying I have no evidence that this had all happened.
[0:26:18 - 0:26:22] ▶
And for example, blood so is case.
[0:26:23 - 0:26:24] ▶
He seems like a really earnest good guy to me.
[0:26:25 - 0:26:27] ▶
And I'm hopefully can go.
[0:26:27 - 0:26:29] ▶
I've been talking about very, very sweet, very sweet guy.
[0:26:29 - 0:26:32] ▶
Um, as his daughter, she was, she was in here with him when he came in.
[0:26:33 - 0:26:37] ▶
Yeah, their whole family seems really cool.
[0:26:38 - 0:26:39] ▶
But I think you can have an experience and you can shade that experience differently
[0:26:39 - 0:26:46] ▶
versus like you didn't experience anything to begin with.
[0:26:46 - 0:26:50] ▶
Because it's like, why are you spending all this like manpower and resources, you know,
[0:26:50 - 0:26:53] ▶
And it's this huge waste of resources otherwise.
[0:26:54 - 0:26:57] ▶
And so if it's all passage material or all some tiny trap or like, I just, that feels
[0:26:57 - 0:27:04] ▶
like a little crazy to me.
[0:27:04 - 0:27:05] ▶
And then you have all this, you have like, so you have to think probabilistically with
[0:27:05 - 0:27:09] ▶
So like, there's the stuff where the adjustment period, like the crazy stuff.
[0:27:11 - 0:27:14] ▶
Like to me, I hold that extremely loosely.
[0:27:14 - 0:27:17] ▶
A catalog it is very low probability and I'll look for corroboration in the future for
[0:27:17 - 0:27:21] ▶
And I feel like, do you believe that's definitely a thing?
[0:27:22 - 0:27:24] ▶
I'm like, no, I don't have no idea.
[0:27:24 - 0:27:26] ▶
But then you have things like you have this book called UFOs and Nukes by a guy named
[0:27:27 - 0:27:30] ▶
Robert Hastings and he documented, we've talked about this.
[0:27:30 - 0:27:32] ▶
He documents 167 Q cleared ICBM security personnel, radar operators, guys that work.
[0:27:32 - 0:27:39] ▶
Most psychologically sound people in the military, right?
[0:27:39 - 0:27:42] ▶
They're on the PRP program, the personal reliability program where they have to report if they're
[0:27:42 - 0:27:46] ▶
taking ibuprofen or Tylenol, they inherently have to be the paradigm of a sound mind because
[0:27:46 - 0:27:53] ▶
you're guarding the crown jewels.
[0:27:53 - 0:27:55] ▶
Like you would never let, you know, crazy person next to a Nukes, right?
[0:27:55 - 0:28:00] ▶
And in certain cases, they have their finger on the button.
[0:28:00 - 0:28:03] ▶
And so all these guys see tick-tax, saucers, orbs.
[0:28:03 - 0:28:09] ▶
Often they're messing with comms, links, shutting down the Nukes, rendering them inoperable
[0:28:09 - 0:28:13] ▶
in the case of, you know, Moundstrom 67, Robert Solis, 64, Vandenberg.
[0:28:13 - 0:28:20] ▶
You have a Nukes wrapping around in Atlas V, Delmi Missile and taking it out of the sky.
[0:28:20 - 0:28:24] ▶
And then you have Air Force Office of Special Investigations people like Rick Doty.
[0:28:24 - 0:28:28] ▶
In fact, Rick Doty is literally one of these people who shows up with this guy, Mario
[0:28:28 - 0:28:32] ▶
It else were at Air Force Base in 1977 and swearing them to secrecy and saying, you'd
[0:28:33 - 0:28:38] ▶
have never talked about this again and demoting them in cases where they do come out.
[0:28:38 - 0:28:43] ▶
And they speak to Robert Hastings.
[0:28:43 - 0:28:44] ▶
Robert Hastings getting threatening phone calls.
[0:28:44 - 0:28:46] ▶
And so to me, if you were to, you know, like you have to think about everything is like
[0:28:46 - 0:28:51] ▶
And it's like, okay, there's one thing if you have like the, you know, National UFO Reporting
[0:28:52 - 0:28:57] ▶
It's another thing if you have this, you know, database that, which I would call UFOs
[0:28:59 - 0:29:02] ▶
and Nukes, of these inherently very credible people coming forward saying they've seen
[0:29:02 - 0:29:07] ▶
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and use the code Danny at checkout to say 15% off your first order.
[0:30:27 - 0:30:31] ▶
And thank you to verso for sponsoring the show.
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You could say, oh, okay, well, it's just some US deep state cabal thing.
[0:30:33 - 0:30:37] ▶
I'm like, okay, maybe, but even then your null hypothesis gets pretty fantastical and weird
[0:30:37 - 0:30:42] ▶
if that's what you're saying.
[0:30:42 - 0:30:44] ▶
But then you look at Fukushima, Lino, which is a town right next to Fukushima, next
[0:30:44 - 0:30:51] ▶
to the prefecture where they have their civilian energy, nuclear energy grid.
[0:30:51 - 0:30:55] ▶
And they've had it there since the 70s.
[0:30:55 - 0:30:57] ▶
They're famous for their nuclear spill in 2011.
[0:30:57 - 0:31:00] ▶
And in the 90s, they built a museum dedicated to UFOs and visted a documentary about how
[0:31:00 - 0:31:07] ▶
obsessed the townspeople are with UFOs.
[0:31:07 - 0:31:10] ▶
And it's probably due to the nuclear energy presence.
[0:31:10 - 0:31:13] ▶
And you have a famous case in Barra Loché, Argentina where they have their civilian nuclear
[0:31:13 - 0:31:17] ▶
grid where a commercial pilot sees a UFO and you have stories around Chernobyl.
[0:31:17 - 0:31:25] ▶
And so this nuclear connection is extremely important.
[0:31:25 - 0:31:27] ▶
When you hear about UFOs basically being bound up within nuclear secrecy and Batel Memorial
[0:31:27 - 0:31:34] ▶
Institute being very big part of UFO research, you look at the special definition of nuclear
[0:31:34 - 0:31:40] ▶
material under the Atomic Energy Commission, which was in 1954.
[0:31:40 - 0:31:44] ▶
And it's basically any material with emitting any sort of radiation.
[0:31:44 - 0:31:48] ▶
So alpha beta, gamma radi anything is born secret and it's restricted data, meaning that
[0:31:48 - 0:31:55] ▶
you don't even have to fall into the direct clearances of government.
[0:31:55 - 0:31:58] ▶
If you are a private aerospace corporation and you pick this stuff up, it is restricted
[0:31:58 - 0:32:03] ▶
So it's like born classified.
[0:32:04 - 0:32:07] ▶
So you have all this evidence that there's this kind of like DOE atomic research UFO thing
[0:32:07 - 0:32:13] ▶
that's been going on for very long time.
[0:32:13 - 0:32:15] ▶
And I think that's where you have to start this coherent picture.
[0:32:15 - 0:32:19] ▶
And then yeah, there's siaops, there's weird shit.
[0:32:19 - 0:32:22] ▶
I think what people don't understand is that if there are siaops around a thing, it means
[0:32:22 - 0:32:27] ▶
the thing is more likely to be real.
[0:32:27 - 0:32:29] ▶
How many big foot siaops do you know?
[0:32:29 - 0:32:31] ▶
Yeah, because nobody would fucking believe it.
[0:32:32 - 0:32:35] ▶
Siaops are 95% true and 5% false and the 5% that's false matters a ton because it throws
[0:32:35 - 0:32:41] ▶
you entirely off the trail.
[0:32:41 - 0:32:43] ▶
That's what people don't understand about siaops.
[0:32:48 - 0:32:49] ▶
They think siaops are opposite.
[0:32:49 - 0:32:51] ▶
They think that it's 95% false, but you dismiss it out of hand.
[0:32:52 - 0:32:55] ▶
If it was 95% false, you'd be like, it's big foot.
[0:32:55 - 0:32:57] ▶
I don't believe that.
[0:32:58 - 0:33:00] ▶
UFOs are standard deviations more charismatic than any other...
[0:33:00 - 0:33:05] ▶
It's big foot's more believable than a fucking alien coming here from another universe.
[0:33:07 - 0:33:12] ▶
There's a big hominid.
[0:33:13 - 0:33:14] ▶
I'm more in the like Jacques Bollet, Diana Pousselca, line of thinking where I don't think,
[0:33:17 - 0:33:21] ▶
you know, little green men from Zeta Routiculi is the answer to like what we're seeing in,
[0:33:21 - 0:33:26] ▶
you know, the airspace.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:27] ▶
Shout out to Mike Masters.
[0:33:27 - 0:33:28] ▶
Shout out to Mike Masters.
[0:33:28 - 0:33:29] ▶
He does some really important work.
[0:33:31 - 0:33:33] ▶
And he's great because he's thinking about this stuff inductively.
[0:33:36 - 0:33:39] ▶
Most people don't realize they're bringing priors into thinking about UFOs that deal with
[0:33:39 - 0:33:45] ▶
movies they've seen.
[0:33:45 - 0:33:47] ▶
The zeitgeist and culture.
[0:33:48 - 0:33:49] ▶
And so they're not looking at the phenomena ground up first principles and he is.
[0:33:49 - 0:33:54] ▶
And that's why Mike Masters is amazing.
[0:33:54 - 0:33:56] ▶
And people should definitely follow him.
[0:33:56 - 0:33:58] ▶
But that's what people don't.
[0:33:58 - 0:33:59] ▶
So the sia, just I think I think is a really important point.
[0:33:59 - 0:34:04] ▶
If there are siaops around a thing, it's more likely to be real.
[0:34:04 - 0:34:09] ▶
And then if UFOs are real, there are going to be siaops around it.
[0:34:09 - 0:34:13] ▶
Obviously, if you have this like core important truth, they're going to be siaops around
[0:34:13 - 0:34:17] ▶
If you're talking about the nature of reality, obviously, but it's a femoral and hard
[0:34:19 - 0:34:23] ▶
to detect and it's like this thing that happens only to certain people, of course, you're
[0:34:23 - 0:34:27] ▶
going to co-op that, manipulate it for narratives.
[0:34:27 - 0:34:30] ▶
And you're going to have all these competing factions trying to like overlay their narratives
[0:34:30 - 0:34:34] ▶
on top of the thing.
[0:34:34 - 0:34:36] ▶
So these things are siaop or real is positive some.
[0:34:36 - 0:34:39] ▶
The fact that it's real means there's going to be a siaop.
[0:34:41 - 0:34:43] ▶
The fact that there's a siaop probably means there's an element of reality too.
[0:34:43 - 0:34:47] ▶
Why would they invest manpower into it?
[0:34:47 - 0:34:49] ▶
Why would they invest so much manpower at the highest levels?
[0:34:49 - 0:34:53] ▶
And so that's I think people don't get that and they snap it to grid.
[0:34:53 - 0:34:57] ▶
They're like, this is a siaop or this is real and it's like, no, they're a siaop and
[0:34:57 - 0:35:01] ▶
It's a sia it's going and that makes it really interesting.
[0:35:02 - 0:35:05] ▶
And we're the investigation.
[0:35:06 - 0:35:07] ▶
Everybody should think for themselves and you should distrust anybody who's saying it's
[0:35:07 - 0:35:10] ▶
That's why the the the Bob Lazar story is so interesting to me and it stays interesting
[0:35:13 - 0:35:18] ▶
because like the more we learn about the more we learn about the psychological warfare
[0:35:18 - 0:35:23] ▶
and the counterintelligence stuff like in this current UFO state we're in the more light
[0:35:23 - 0:35:28] ▶
it shines on the Bob Lazar story in what was it 1980 or something 1990.
[0:35:28 - 0:35:33] ▶
So like apparently he was the guy who first came to area 51 blew the whistle and area 51.
[0:35:36 - 0:35:42] ▶
But then I think this this was all part of your documentary.
[0:35:42 - 0:35:46] ▶
Was this a part of your town's brown document?
[0:35:46 - 0:35:48] ▶
So like I think one of the questions you asked in the town's and brown document was which
[0:35:49 - 0:35:53] ▶
was brilliant was why would the CIA let a guy come in who has this crazy history?
[0:35:53 - 0:36:02] ▶
He I think and another thing that happened was I think he like recently gotten into
[0:36:04 - 0:36:06] ▶
divorce with with his previous wife who then like killed herself.
[0:36:06 - 0:36:12] ▶
I didn't know that she she like went in her car in her garage and let her car run until
[0:36:12 - 0:36:18] ▶
like she suffocated.
[0:36:18 - 0:36:20] ▶
This was like a week after they got a divorce.
[0:36:20 - 0:36:22] ▶
I think Bob also owned a strip club in Vegas.
[0:36:23 - 0:36:25] ▶
And then what were the worst?
[0:36:27 - 0:36:28] ▶
I think a brothel not not just a brothel.
[0:36:28 - 0:36:30] ▶
Yeah, yeah, you know brothel.
[0:36:30 - 0:36:31] ▶
So the CIA is going to go out and find it and to think they're not going to do a background
[0:36:31 - 0:36:36] ▶
check and find that kind of stuff.
[0:36:36 - 0:36:37] ▶
If it's the CIA, they're most top secret facility on in America.
[0:36:37 - 0:36:41] ▶
Well, you've seen Oppenheimer, right?
[0:36:41 - 0:36:43] ▶
So you remember that Leslie Matt Damon's character Leslie Groves who's running basically
[0:36:44 - 0:36:48] ▶
the entire mat and hat and project from like a national security standpoint.
[0:36:48 - 0:36:51] ▶
And he says I didn't hire Oppenheimer in spite of his socialist sympathies.
[0:36:51 - 0:36:58] ▶
I hired him because of them.
[0:36:58 - 0:37:00] ▶
And so you hire people when it comes to some of these more secret programs.
[0:37:00 - 0:37:05] ▶
If they do have Compromot on them, because they're more easily controllable.
[0:37:05 - 0:37:09] ▶
So that wouldn't necessarily cut against the whole ball.
[0:37:09 - 0:37:12] ▶
Bob was an argument for them.
[0:37:12 - 0:37:14] ▶
That's an argument for them hiring him.
[0:37:14 - 0:37:15] ▶
But in discrediting him, if he ever decides to spill the beans.
[0:37:16 - 0:37:20] ▶
And there's even a, so what I was saying in that documentary is John Lear is a CIA cargo
[0:37:21 - 0:37:28] ▶
pilot, cargo jet pilot or whatever.
[0:37:28 - 0:37:30] ▶
And the son of Bill Lear who created the first business, basically private jet in the
[0:37:31 - 0:37:37] ▶
US and he's known as the autopilot wizard and actually worked with Thomas Townsend Brown.
[0:37:37 - 0:37:41] ▶
Who comes from this like aerospace, like, you know, dynasty.
[0:37:42 - 0:37:45] ▶
And he, yeah, affiliated with the CIA and Sezzy disaffiliated in 83.
[0:37:45 - 0:37:51] ▶
But definitely was still flying cargo jets for them like into the mid 80s at least.
[0:37:51 - 0:37:57] ▶
So my question is like, you know, we kind of know that if there is a UFO program, it's
[0:37:57 - 0:38:01] ▶
being run partially by the CIA and the CIA has a, a partner.
[0:38:01 - 0:38:06] ▶
And so if you're the CIA, why do you continue unless you're extremely dysfunctional and not
[0:38:06 - 0:38:10] ▶
Why do you continue to pay this guy?
[0:38:11 - 0:38:13] ▶
You know, it's flying cargo jets for you.
[0:38:13 - 0:38:16] ▶
If he's leaking your most vital important secrets because John Lear put all of the files
[0:38:16 - 0:38:22] ▶
around Bob Lazar on George Naps desk, he broke the story.
[0:38:22 - 0:38:26] ▶
So why would you pay a guy who's leaking your, you know, your crown jewel secrets?
[0:38:26 - 0:38:31] ▶
So that's one question.
[0:38:31 - 0:38:32] ▶
And then John Lear also had a UFO blog before and was friends with Bob Lazar.
[0:38:32 - 0:38:38] ▶
And there's some story that Bob Lazar says all this UFO stuff is crazy and wacky and
[0:38:38 - 0:38:42] ▶
bullshit before he gets hired by Area 51 and S4.
[0:38:42 - 0:38:46] ▶
But the question stands, why would you hire Bob Lazar to your top secret UFO reverse engineering
[0:38:46 - 0:38:52] ▶
program if you're good friend or his good friend, John Lear was a babbling UFO nut who
[0:38:52 - 0:39:00] ▶
Like you'd obviously find that in a background check, right?
[0:39:02 - 0:39:04] ▶
So like, there's a lot to me that points to the CIA wanting the Bob Lazar story out.
[0:39:05 - 0:39:11] ▶
Again, that doesn't mean the details of the Bob Lazar story are not incredibly interesting.
[0:39:11 - 0:39:17] ▶
And maybe it's 95% true and 5% false.
[0:39:17 - 0:39:21] ▶
And maybe this Billy Meyer sports model that he worked on was real.
[0:39:21 - 0:39:25] ▶
Maybe Gravity A and Gravity B are high level frameworks that if you are working on a secret
[0:39:27 - 0:39:32] ▶
UFO program, you need some initiate, you know, STEM student to start to develop an interest
[0:39:32 - 0:39:39] ▶
in, but you need to protect this from getting into adversary hands.
[0:39:39 - 0:39:43] ▶
So you put it out through this kind of this quacky person who is discreditable in Bob Lazar.
[0:39:43 - 0:39:49] ▶
And so it's kind of this limited hangout of a person where you can always retract it.
[0:39:49 - 0:39:53] ▶
You can always point to, you know, say, fake is MIT educational credentials.
[0:39:53 - 0:39:58] ▶
And you can say all this stuff about Bob, you say the brothel thing, but maybe their
[0:39:58 - 0:40:03] ▶
elements of it that are very real.
[0:40:03 - 0:40:07] ▶
So I think it's this incredibly intriguing story.
[0:40:07 - 0:40:10] ▶
And what I want to be clear about is I think like the Corbell and George and App reporting
[0:40:10 - 0:40:14] ▶
Like I think we should be looking into this stuff.
[0:40:15 - 0:40:18] ▶
To me, if you're not thinking about it through a meta lens of like the CIA probably wanted
[0:40:18 - 0:40:24] ▶
elements of this out, I think you're losing the plot.
[0:40:24 - 0:40:27] ▶
You know, I think you're going to fall for your, you can't take the thing of face value.
[0:40:27 - 0:40:31] ▶
You need to understand that it's being pushed for some reason.
[0:40:31 - 0:40:33] ▶
And I think there's even a John Lear interview where I believe he says a guy named, I think
[0:40:33 - 0:40:37] ▶
it was like an admiral McClellan.
[0:40:37 - 0:40:39] ▶
He says that this guy who was part of like legacy UFO efforts told him that he needed to
[0:40:39 - 0:40:46] ▶
leak the Lazar story because he knew that it was discreditable, but that there were,
[0:40:46 - 0:40:52] ▶
it was mostly true, but also discreditable.
[0:40:52 - 0:40:55] ▶
And so there's literally a Lear interview because Lear was clearly kind of unhinged and
[0:40:55 - 0:40:59] ▶
a little, you know, crazy himself.
[0:40:59 - 0:41:01] ▶
Where he's just saying what I'm telling you now, which is that the Lazar story, again,
[0:41:01 - 0:41:07] ▶
there could be elements of truth, but it was put out because it was discreditable.
[0:41:07 - 0:41:10] ▶
I think that's the way a lot of this stuff works.
[0:41:10 - 0:41:13] ▶
So what was the benefit of putting it out?
[0:41:13 - 0:41:15] ▶
Was it to recruit a new talent?
[0:41:15 - 0:41:16] ▶
So it's like if you want to throw the adversary off the trail or like keep things fundamentally
[0:41:18 - 0:41:23] ▶
protected, but have initiates, you know, develop intrigue and want to be recruited or whatever.
[0:41:23 - 0:41:30] ▶
Like it's like the perfect way to do it.
[0:41:30 - 0:41:31] ▶
So it's like tech protection, it's adversary signaling, it's recruitment, it's increasing
[0:41:32 - 0:41:37] ▶
It's if you expect a leak in the future, you can manage that leak because you're like
[0:41:38 - 0:41:43] ▶
conditioning people and like softening the blow for something you expect to leak in
[0:41:43 - 0:41:46] ▶
There's so many reasons to get in front of and do something like that and Ben Rich, who
[0:41:48 - 0:41:53] ▶
was, you know, president of Lockheed Skunkworks, you know, their most secretive, you know, advanced
[0:41:53 - 0:41:58] ▶
aerospace aircraft division at the time, responsible for, you know, the SR 71 and, you
[0:41:58 - 0:42:03] ▶
He was complaining at the time how he was basically saying like, you know, I have to spend
[0:42:05 - 0:42:10] ▶
tons and tons of money on tech protection because the F 117A, which was there for a stealth
[0:42:10 - 0:42:15] ▶
fighter had just crashed in Bakersfield in 1986.
[0:42:15 - 0:42:19] ▶
Lear actually established credibility with KLA S with George Naps, you know, news station
[0:42:19 - 0:42:25] ▶
by giving them information on that F 117A.
[0:42:25 - 0:42:27] ▶
So there's some interesting ties there.
[0:42:29 - 0:42:30] ▶
The final thing is John Lear and Jim Goodall, his buddy, had been camping outside of Area
[0:42:30 - 0:42:35] ▶
51 for the better part of a decade, taking pictures of all these advanced recon stealth
[0:42:35 - 0:42:40] ▶
And so the security knew him.
[0:42:41 - 0:42:43] ▶
They all knew who he was.
[0:42:43 - 0:42:45] ▶
So it's like, if he's leaking stuff, it's probably for a reason.
[0:42:45 - 0:42:49] ▶
And so I think, you know, people like Ben Rich were smart, really smart.
[0:42:49 - 0:42:51] ▶
He used to get Ben Rich, he used to call UFOs unfunded opportunities.
[0:42:51 - 0:42:55] ▶
And I think, you know, he was kind of using John Lear to those ends, if that makes sense.
[0:42:55 - 0:43:01] ▶
Again, I don't know if you have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say that
[0:43:01 - 0:43:06] ▶
we're not reverse engineering UFOs in sort of secret compartments of the government.
[0:43:06 - 0:43:12] ▶
But that's the way I think you need that meta lens to look at it through, if that makes
[0:43:12 - 0:43:17] ▶
And on my list, on top of my to-do list is read the book that Jacques Flaire wrote about
[0:43:18 - 0:43:23] ▶
this stuff where he talks about Bob Lizar drinking something weird or something like that.
[0:43:23 - 0:43:27] ▶
Yeah, messengers of deception, Jacques Flaire, Jacques Flaire is always, I've had a bunch
[0:43:27 - 0:43:31] ▶
And I love French godfather of UFOs.
[0:43:33 - 0:43:36] ▶
And he's always thought Bob Lizar was like just completely full of shit, which I think
[0:43:36 - 0:43:41] ▶
there are more elements of truth to it.
[0:43:41 - 0:43:43] ▶
And there's actually a great movie coming out about Bob Lizar by my buddy, Luigi, and
[0:43:43 - 0:43:49] ▶
it's called Project Gravitar.
[0:43:49 - 0:43:50] ▶
And I do think it's actually going to corroborate that Lizar probably was at Area 51.
[0:43:50 - 0:43:55] ▶
And then he's working on it with Lizar.
[0:43:56 - 0:43:59] ▶
He's working on it with Lizar.
[0:43:59 - 0:44:00] ▶
It's going to be epic.
[0:44:01 - 0:44:02] ▶
It's going to be really awesome.
[0:44:02 - 0:44:03] ▶
But yeah, so in messengers of deception, Jacques Flaire says, you know, and what about the
[0:44:03 - 0:44:11] ▶
liquid that Bob Lizar said he was meant to drink or whatever, and the memory lapses
[0:44:11 - 0:44:16] ▶
And immediately my mind goes to MK Ultra and I'm like, you know, and Lizar admits that.
[0:44:17 - 0:44:23] ▶
And I think he's admitted it to Luigi and he'll talk about this, that the fact that
[0:44:23 - 0:44:27] ▶
they made him drink a weird liquid and he'll forget certain things.
[0:44:27 - 0:44:31] ▶
Something kind of, you know, weird going on there.
[0:44:32 - 0:44:34] ▶
I don't know what it is.
[0:44:35 - 0:44:36] ▶
A siawp wrapped in a mystery, wrapped in another siawp wrapped in some sort of strategic
[0:44:36 - 0:44:40] ▶
I love what Annie Jacobson says in her book about when they're first flying the first jet
[0:44:41 - 0:44:44] ▶
planes out of Area 51.
[0:44:44 - 0:44:46] ▶
They'd see eye pilots had to bring gorilla masks in the cockpit.
[0:44:46 - 0:44:50] ▶
Because the CIA pilots, when they were flying those first jet planes, in case they came
[0:44:53 - 0:44:56] ▶
in visual distance of a civilian airplane, they had to put on the gorilla masks.
[0:44:56 - 0:45:00] ▶
That's my favorite one.
[0:45:03 - 0:45:04] ▶
You spent a lot of time with Shockfilet, right?
[0:45:09 - 0:45:11] ▶
You guys are, did you live, you lived close to him?
[0:45:11 - 0:45:15] ▶
You used to live closer to LA, right?
[0:45:16 - 0:45:18] ▶
Yeah, I lived in LA for most of my life.
[0:45:18 - 0:45:21] ▶
And no, I just, whenever we're in the same city, I try to hit him up and visit him and he's
[0:45:21 - 0:45:26] ▶
He's just a very, very deep thinker.
[0:45:27 - 0:45:28] ▶
And there are clearly a lot of layers to his understanding of the UFO.
[0:45:28 - 0:45:32] ▶
The most interesting thing to me, and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this, was
[0:45:33 - 0:45:39] ▶
in Diana's book, she talks about him being obsessed with angels and demons and this
[0:45:39 - 0:45:45] ▶
medieval spiritual stuff, right?
[0:45:45 - 0:45:47] ▶
And she says that he gave her a book about the devil with 666 pages.
[0:45:48 - 0:45:55] ▶
And he said to her, if you want to understand this stuff, read the book.
[0:45:55 - 0:45:58] ▶
I don't know what to make of that.
[0:46:01 - 0:46:04] ▶
I don't think Diana did either when I asked her.
[0:46:04 - 0:46:06] ▶
I'm like, did you read the book?
[0:46:07 - 0:46:08] ▶
She goes, no, can't find it.
[0:46:08 - 0:46:09] ▶
No, he didn't give it to her.
[0:46:10 - 0:46:13] ▶
He just like showed her the book.
[0:46:13 - 0:46:14] ▶
Oh, okay, okay, got it, got it, got it.
[0:46:14 - 0:46:16] ▶
I mean, I will say what, you know, you know the concept of Lindy.
[0:46:20 - 0:46:25] ▶
So it's this idea that the current age of something should define its expected survival
[0:46:25 - 0:46:31] ▶
So really old things are very durable and are probably more true or right or like, you
[0:46:32 - 0:46:38] ▶
know, yeah, just valid.
[0:46:38 - 0:46:41] ▶
So like the Bible, very Lindy, Plato, very Lindy, you know, modern architecture or, you
[0:46:41 - 0:46:47] ▶
know, I don't know, the museum of ice cream, not Lindy, you know, like, and so, okay.
[0:46:47 - 0:46:53] ▶
I would say that really applies to you a faux question.
[0:46:53 - 0:46:55] ▶
Whatever we are seeing now is probably what we've historically seen forever.
[0:46:55 - 0:46:58] ▶
And that's what Jacques Vallet's book, Passport to Magonia, touches on.
[0:46:58 - 0:47:01] ▶
It's like, you know, Celtic, medieval, you know, fairies and leprechauns and angels
[0:47:01 - 0:47:07] ▶
and demons and, you know, Passport to Magonias, it's based on the denizens of Magonia and
[0:47:07 - 0:47:14] ▶
It's probably what we're seeing today.
[0:47:15 - 0:47:17] ▶
And they almost patterned match one to one in terms of, you know, the actual story.
[0:47:17 - 0:47:20] ▶
It's like somebody comes down.
[0:47:20 - 0:47:21] ▶
And they're missing time involved.
[0:47:21 - 0:47:23] ▶
They're sometimes implants and physical marks or ceilings, but people also freak out.
[0:47:23 - 0:47:26] ▶
And sometimes they get sick afterward.
[0:47:26 - 0:47:28] ▶
It's, it's, it's just very common.
[0:47:28 - 0:47:31] ▶
And so I think when you get into the religious stuff, a modern scientist would say, oh,
[0:47:31 - 0:47:37] ▶
that's crazy or whatever.
[0:47:37 - 0:47:38] ▶
But if you treat that as a real phenomenology in the past, if you treat, you know, like
[0:47:38 - 0:47:43] ▶
Diana Poussoka has in her book, St. Francis of Assisi, you know, experience on Mount
[0:47:43 - 0:47:47] ▶
LeVern in 13th century Italy, if you treat that as a historical artifact, which I think
[0:47:47 - 0:47:51] ▶
you should, then I think a lot of these things were just UFOs.
[0:47:51 - 0:47:54] ▶
Now, where it gets weird is like, then you say, oh, UFOs are just angels and demons.
[0:47:54 - 0:47:59] ▶
Like so many people say that.
[0:47:59 - 0:48:00] ▶
And then you just, you give them one more question.
[0:48:00 - 0:48:02] ▶
I say Tucker Carlson says that more than anybody.
[0:48:02 - 0:48:03] ▶
Oh, he says it more than anybody.
[0:48:03 - 0:48:05] ▶
And, and, you know, I'm a fan of Tucker's, but like, then you ask, any, ask Tucker, ask
[0:48:05 - 0:48:09] ▶
anybody, then you say, what's an angel?
[0:48:09 - 0:48:10] ▶
They'll have no idea.
[0:48:11 - 0:48:12] ▶
They'll look like, I don't know what are you talking about.
[0:48:12 - 0:48:14] ▶
You know, and so, yeah, yeah, there you go.
[0:48:14 - 0:48:16] ▶
That's what I was like.
[0:48:17 - 0:48:18] ▶
By the way, love that fucking podcast you do with, with Alex Jones.
[0:48:18 - 0:48:21] ▶
Yeah, one of your original ones wanted the OG.
[0:48:22 - 0:48:25] ▶
Yeah, yeah, he's hilarious, man.
[0:48:25 - 0:48:28] ▶
Dude, that was pure entertainment.
[0:48:30 - 0:48:33] ▶
It was pure, it was so fun with painting rocks.
[0:48:33 - 0:48:36] ▶
He came in rocks with Alex Jones.
[0:48:36 - 0:48:38] ▶
Well, we did this thing in Austin and like, like Info Wars HQ.
[0:48:38 - 0:48:44] ▶
And he had COVID and he gave me COVID.
[0:48:44 - 0:48:46] ▶
So I share some genetics with.
[0:48:47 - 0:48:49] ▶
And it was just, I don't know, it was fun.
[0:48:51 - 0:48:53] ▶
We shot guns and stuff, but the vibe was like a little off.
[0:48:53 - 0:48:56] ▶
And then my friend, Riva, she was like in LA at the time and he was coming into LA and
[0:48:56 - 0:49:02] ▶
she was like, we gotta just make it gonzo weird and funny.
[0:49:02 - 0:49:05] ▶
And we got a paint rock.
[0:49:05 - 0:49:06] ▶
She bought all these board games and stuff and it was just light in the mood.
[0:49:06 - 0:49:10] ▶
Where's the title of it?
[0:49:13 - 0:49:15] ▶
Isn't it like painting rocks with Alex Jones?
[0:49:15 - 0:49:17] ▶
Yeah, getting drunk and painting rocks.
[0:49:18 - 0:49:19] ▶
That's such an OG vice title.
[0:49:19 - 0:49:24] ▶
It felt like very vice.
[0:49:25 - 0:49:26] ▶
It felt like just, I feel like your stuff is very vice too.
[0:49:26 - 0:49:30] ▶
You have a lot of episodes like that too.
[0:49:30 - 0:49:32] ▶
But yeah, he's just like, oh man, he's so fun to spend time.
[0:49:32 - 0:49:36] ▶
He's spent so much, he looks like he would be such fun to hang out with.
[0:49:36 - 0:49:39] ▶
He spent that whole day at my house and I gave him all these books and it was just such
[0:49:40 - 0:49:46] ▶
What were you guys drinking?
[0:49:49 - 0:49:50] ▶
And he went, he was going, oh, he's, yeah, I know what he's saying right now.
[0:49:53 - 0:49:56] ▶
He goes, this is so weird.
[0:49:56 - 0:49:59] ▶
He goes, I don't know if a sexual desire for my, for my mother.
[0:49:59 - 0:50:03] ▶
You know, she's so beautiful.
[0:50:07 - 0:50:08] ▶
And then, Alex, you are crazy.
[0:50:08 - 0:50:09] ▶
Dude, he is such a smart dude.
[0:50:09 - 0:50:10] ▶
He's actually a good guy.
[0:50:10 - 0:50:11] ▶
He's actually extremely smart.
[0:50:17 - 0:50:18] ▶
He's such a smart dude.
[0:50:18 - 0:50:19] ▶
But like, he, the thing about Alex Jones, a lot of people don't realize is that he throws
[0:50:20 - 0:50:26] ▶
so much shit at the wall.
[0:50:26 - 0:50:29] ▶
There's the whole, there's the, there's the meme, right?
[0:50:29 - 0:50:31] ▶
Like, Alex Jones always, like, he gets stuff right over time.
[0:50:31 - 0:50:34] ▶
He's like, the difference between conspiracy theory and the truth is six months.
[0:50:34 - 0:50:37] ▶
You know, Alex Jones was right again.
[0:50:37 - 0:50:39] ▶
But like, if you saw the volume of shit that he says, you would realize how much he actually
[0:50:40 - 0:50:45] ▶
He does get a ton of shit right.
[0:50:46 - 0:50:47] ▶
There's so much, but he's constantly just throwing shit out there.
[0:50:47 - 0:50:51] ▶
And of course, he's going to predict something right.
[0:50:51 - 0:50:53] ▶
You know, the 9-11 stuff is crazy how he predict, like, literally called out that Al Qaeda
[0:50:54 - 0:50:58] ▶
was going to fly planes in the tower or that.
[0:50:58 - 0:51:00] ▶
It goes up Osama specifically.
[0:51:00 - 0:51:02] ▶
That is fucking nuts.
[0:51:03 - 0:51:04] ▶
I think he's like, I think he's tapped in.
[0:51:04 - 0:51:06] ▶
It goes back to our conversation on consciousness.
[0:51:06 - 0:51:08] ▶
I feel like he's like a, a bit of a profit.
[0:51:08 - 0:51:11] ▶
He's like one of these people, it's like a, a generically magnified receptor.
[0:51:11 - 0:51:17] ▶
And like, I think he's like an antenna.
[0:51:17 - 0:51:19] ▶
He's like an antenna and a lot of bad shit gloms onto him.
[0:51:19 - 0:51:22] ▶
He's like Kanye too, where it's like so much bad stuff gloms onto Kanye.
[0:51:23 - 0:51:26] ▶
And then so much good too.
[0:51:26 - 0:51:28] ▶
And like, I think that's where people like don't understand somebody like him.
[0:51:28 - 0:51:32] ▶
He's thinking he's so wildly wrong when he's wrong.
[0:51:32 - 0:51:34] ▶
But when he's right, it's like nobody else was right.
[0:51:35 - 0:51:38] ▶
Like it's like a download that he got that was so prophetic.
[0:51:38 - 0:51:41] ▶
It's so like out of his time, it's really amazing.
[0:51:41 - 0:51:44] ▶
And it's almost like you have to, you have to be able to get rid of that filter for
[0:51:45 - 0:51:49] ▶
that stuff to happen because if you have that filter and you're like constantly like sitting
[0:51:49 - 0:51:52] ▶
and mulling on things before you talk about them or before you claim them, whatever it
[0:51:52 - 0:51:55] ▶
is, it's like automatically that is, that is like you're not going to have that super
[0:51:55 - 0:52:02] ▶
But if you don't have the filter built in at all, and you're just constantly just coming
[0:52:03 - 0:52:06] ▶
in and it's going out, it's flowing through you, then it's like you're more tapped
[0:52:06 - 0:52:10] ▶
And I, yeah, totally, it's definitely, you can see that we're calling it.
[0:52:11 - 0:52:13] ▶
Yeah, it's like, it's like automatic writing where like you like, you get the first like
[0:52:13 - 0:52:18] ▶
page you write is like contrives.
[0:52:18 - 0:52:20] ▶
It's coming from your like prefrontal cortex, like this intellectual thing and then boom,
[0:52:20 - 0:52:23] ▶
you get into the flow and you're on a pile and something's coming through you and the
[0:52:23 - 0:52:26] ▶
music, you're tapping the music.
[0:52:26 - 0:52:28] ▶
You can't have the filter and I think and that's why I get so wrong.
[0:52:30 - 0:52:33] ▶
That's the double, that's the double-edged sword that you got.
[0:52:33 - 0:52:35] ▶
You have to be okay with that and you have to be discerning.
[0:52:36 - 0:52:38] ▶
It's condescending to an audience to say, I'm going to A priori conceal you from this
[0:52:38 - 0:52:43] ▶
Instead of, I'm going to let you think for yourself.
[0:52:45 - 0:52:47] ▶
And there's a lot that this guy says is completely quacky and wrong.
[0:52:47 - 0:52:50] ▶
And there's a lot that's super right.
[0:52:50 - 0:52:53] ▶
And like, but we're not going to like, you're not going to be like, bubble boy and bubble
[0:52:53 - 0:52:57] ▶
girl who they, you know, like, like, like a siphon you off from like this, like, you know,
[0:52:57 - 0:53:02] ▶
really important, you know, possible, you know, slivers of information that are really
[0:53:02 - 0:53:07] ▶
Where were we going before we start talking about it?
[0:53:10 - 0:53:12] ▶
How did we get to Alec?
[0:53:12 - 0:53:15] ▶
I said Hillary Clinton.
[0:53:16 - 0:53:17] ▶
Oh, you're talking about Jacques Vallet saying that's a lot of part of it.
[0:53:20 - 0:53:21] ▶
I mean, if you get into like, there's like a, a Nostek through line and thinking about
[0:53:21 - 0:53:26] ▶
So like, you're familiar with Nosticism.
[0:53:27 - 0:53:28] ▶
Yeah, they're correct.
[0:53:28 - 0:53:29] ▶
So like, you know, the idea that these are like art, art, Connie, you know, protectors
[0:53:31 - 0:53:38] ▶
or tricksters protectors of the material world, but the, you know, that there's like a,
[0:53:38 - 0:53:44] ▶
you know, there's like a demi-erge that, you know, runs the material world and that's
[0:53:44 - 0:53:47] ▶
like a lower god and then there's like a higher god.
[0:53:47 - 0:53:49] ▶
And this is not something I would fully subscribe to.
[0:53:49 - 0:53:52] ▶
I think they're too anti.
[0:53:52 - 0:53:53] ▶
I think the material world's very special and we can learn all these amazing things from
[0:53:53 - 0:53:57] ▶
I also think there's higher stuff going on.
[0:53:58 - 0:53:59] ▶
I don't know, like a neoplateness or something, but there's definitely some Nostek thought
[0:54:00 - 0:54:06] ▶
and through lines in this world.
[0:54:06 - 0:54:08] ▶
And like, I think that is one lens you can overlay the whole UFO question with.
[0:54:08 - 0:54:12] ▶
But as to, you know, I don't know.
[0:54:12 - 0:54:13] ▶
Yeah, super into fallen angels and he's interested in demons and I don't, I can't quite, you
[0:54:13 - 0:54:19] ▶
Well, the demon thing is interesting when you look at the Virginia Brazil case with the
[0:54:20 - 0:54:24] ▶
thing that smelled like sulfur and they call it the three women that go, it's like,
[0:54:24 - 0:54:28] ▶
it's like a demon, you know, it's, yeah.
[0:54:28 - 0:54:30] ▶
People look at demon had horns and eyes like a demon and kill the guy.
[0:54:30 - 0:54:35] ▶
Some of these things pattern or even the rumors of Roswell, there's a CIA liaison named
[0:54:39 - 0:54:44] ▶
Chase Brand and he wrote a book called Crypto's Conundrum and the, the alien being that comes
[0:54:44 - 0:54:48] ▶
And I think there's some true stuff that comes out of that.
[0:54:49 - 0:54:51] ▶
Do you think there's, do you think we really have a being that came out of Roswell?
[0:54:51 - 0:54:55] ▶
I, again, I would say low probability, high probability that Roswell happens.
[0:54:55 - 0:55:00] ▶
I think there was a crash there and then lower probability that there was a being.
[0:55:00 - 0:55:04] ▶
I don't know what I'd, you know, maybe more probably 50, 50-ish percent, but I, at, decently
[0:55:04 - 0:55:08] ▶
high, there's so many towns people at Roswell, like something happened here.
[0:55:08 - 0:55:13] ▶
Beings came out at Grimitchal who I know this is going to kind of bite of the waters because
[0:55:13 - 0:55:17] ▶
he was, you know, an Apollo 14 astronaut who then got really interested in consciousness
[0:55:17 - 0:55:21] ▶
You know, it was a trip on the way back to the moon, you know, almost this conversion
[0:55:22 - 0:55:24] ▶
He was from Roswell and it's like an open secret there that something happened.
[0:55:25 - 0:55:29] ▶
And then the beings I would rank as lower probability than like the memory metal that
[0:55:30 - 0:55:33] ▶
Jesse Marcel, this Air Force flight surgeon, I think definitely collected.
[0:55:33 - 0:55:38] ▶
I think it did make it to write, write airfield.
[0:55:38 - 0:55:41] ▶
The trit, trit, trit, trit, trit, trit, trit, trit, tritium or night, tritium?
[0:55:41 - 0:55:48] ▶
It was like, there was a crazy metal that there was a, a word, a name for it where it
[0:55:50 - 0:55:56] ▶
would bend and go back to its original shape.
[0:55:56 - 0:55:58] ▶
Oh, you're talking about the titanium nickel alloy that, so there's a contract between
[0:55:58 - 0:56:04] ▶
right airfield and Batell Memorial Institute.
[0:56:04 - 0:56:07] ▶
From 1949 that my buddy, the Gerb video, the UAP Gerb, everybody check out his channel.
[0:56:08 - 0:56:12] ▶
He's, you should have him on.
[0:56:14 - 0:56:15] ▶
So there's this titanium, and I think it's a, Nick, I don't know.
[0:56:18 - 0:56:23] ▶
It's a crazy word, right?
[0:56:23 - 0:56:24] ▶
It's a, yeah, I don't know, but it's, it's titanium nickel alloy.
[0:56:24 - 0:56:27] ▶
Trit, trit, tritium nickel alloy.
[0:56:28 - 0:56:30] ▶
And that's, there's evidence that we, that we have, that we have that.
[0:56:30 - 0:56:34] ▶
Well, we definitely have that.
[0:56:34 - 0:56:35] ▶
That was declassified as a material that we have in 1961.
[0:56:35 - 0:56:39] ▶
Then you have to ask the question, why does Batell Memorial Institute that runs all of
[0:56:39 - 0:56:43] ▶
our nuclear stuff have a contract with right airfield where the Roswell materials were,
[0:56:43 - 0:56:47] ▶
Knit knoll, that's what it was.
[0:56:49 - 0:56:50] ▶
So, so that, they have a contract to study this stuff between right airfield and Batell Memorial
[0:56:52 - 0:56:56] ▶
Again, there's the nuclear connection.
[0:56:57 - 0:57:00] ▶
And then I think in 61 or 62, it comes out that Knit knolls a thing.
[0:57:00 - 0:57:06] ▶
But why are you keeping it secret for 12 years?
[0:57:06 - 0:57:08] ▶
And then Knit knolls really interesting because it exactly patterned, so Jesse Marcel,
[0:57:08 - 0:57:13] ▶
this is Air Force flight surgeon.
[0:57:13 - 0:57:14] ▶
He comes out later in 1979, I think, saying, you know, actually, I was like forced to pose
[0:57:14 - 0:57:19] ▶
with this, you know, fake material and, you know, and the project mogul comes out later.
[0:57:19 - 0:57:23] ▶
Air Force says that, you know, it was just a weather balloon or whatever.
[0:57:23 - 0:57:27] ▶
But actually it was this kind of, you know, memory metal that was like extremely very durable.
[0:57:27 - 0:57:34] ▶
And like you could, you could apply a lot of stress to it and it would kind of like,
[0:57:34 - 0:57:37] ▶
it had like shape memory.
[0:57:37 - 0:57:38] ▶
It would go, it would go back into its original form and look unperturbed.
[0:57:38 - 0:57:42] ▶
And Knit knoll is that.
[0:57:43 - 0:57:44] ▶
That's, we know that.
[0:57:45 - 0:57:46] ▶
Yeah, that is crazy.
[0:57:47 - 0:57:48] ▶
And James Fox's witness is literally said, this is exact same stuff they found in Brazil
[0:57:48 - 0:57:51] ▶
when that thing crashed.
[0:57:51 - 0:57:52] ▶
So that he explained it like he was like foil that you could bend around and it would
[0:57:54 - 0:57:58] ▶
go back to its original form.
[0:57:58 - 0:57:59] ▶
And Robert Sardbacher, who was very close to Thomas Townsend Brown, is probably working
[0:58:00 - 0:58:03] ▶
on a lot of this stuff talks about material, thinly leared materials that, you know, do
[0:58:03 - 0:58:07] ▶
similar things from that time.
[0:58:07 - 0:58:09] ▶
So there's, I think they are there.
[0:58:10 - 0:58:11] ▶
And then the bodies, I'd, you know, rank a little lower probability, but I've heard from
[0:58:11 - 0:58:15] ▶
some pretty credible sources that, you know, I think there's something there too.
[0:58:15 - 0:58:19] ▶
So what do you make about what?
[0:58:19 - 0:58:21] ▶
And what a moment of contact is, and I think more, by the way, is going to come out about
[0:58:21 - 0:58:25] ▶
A moment of contact is in some ways that you mean more.
[0:58:27 - 0:58:30] ▶
What else is going to come out?
[0:58:30 - 0:58:31] ▶
You guys, do I have a lympho, Jesse?
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I love James Fox and I'm buddies with him and I just know he's kind of actively pursuing
[0:59:49 - 0:59:53] ▶
So yeah, so I think I'm really excited to see what happens there.
[0:59:55 - 0:59:58] ▶
But like I would rank that as higher probability as far as the beings than Roswell because we
[0:59:58 - 1:00:03] ▶
have witnesses who are alive and we have them on video saying they were right there.
[1:00:03 - 1:00:07] ▶
There's three women who like, how about the scene where they go to the guy's house and
[1:00:07 - 1:00:10] ▶
he's like, he pulls his gun out and he's about to shoot him.
[1:00:10 - 1:00:13] ▶
And then, you know, there's this doctor that reportedly died when the thing was in his
[1:00:14 - 1:00:18] ▶
hands and this is kind of ammonia like smell which keeps coming up.
[1:00:18 - 1:00:22] ▶
So yeah, he said that the doctor who did the X ray said the whole hospital spent like
[1:00:22 - 1:00:26] ▶
I'm sorry, sulfur, sulfur, which is the smell of the devil.
[1:00:31 - 1:00:33] ▶
Then you have to ask yourself the question like, yeah, how much of that stuff is actually
[1:00:35 - 1:00:38] ▶
just historical and real like we if something has a religious veneer to it, we throw it out
[1:00:38 - 1:00:43] ▶
as not historical, but we have to remember like pre-enlightenment, everybody was religious,
[1:00:43 - 1:00:49] ▶
Just because something has a religious overlay to it doesn't mean it's inherently not true.
[1:00:53 - 1:00:57] ▶
You could say a lot of the things in the Bible feel beyond the pale for you to believe
[1:00:57 - 1:01:00] ▶
Like the seas parting and the old, whatever.
[1:01:01 - 1:01:04] ▶
But to say that like somebody definitely didn't have this experience that seemed paranormal,
[1:01:04 - 1:01:08] ▶
we put this religious overlay over there.
[1:01:08 - 1:01:09] ▶
I think is extremely close.
[1:01:09 - 1:01:11] ▶
You have all these examples now of people experiencing paranormal stuff and it's just
[1:01:12 - 1:01:15] ▶
not a religious overlay because that's not the kind of mythology of today, sciences.
[1:01:15 - 1:01:19] ▶
Like you say, you don't have to get through the baby out with the bathwater.
[1:01:21 - 1:01:24] ▶
But when it comes to the crashes though, what do you make of the crashes?
[1:01:24 - 1:01:28] ▶
If these things are so advanced, if they're extraterrestrials or if they're future humans
[1:01:28 - 1:01:32] ▶
that are 500,000 years in the future, why are they crashing?
[1:01:32 - 1:01:35] ▶
Yeah, this gets into weird stuff.
[1:01:35 - 1:01:38] ▶
But I think there's high powered radar that was developed in the 40s.
[1:01:38 - 1:01:44] ▶
I think Watson was like the first guy that developed radar that was in Britain.
[1:01:44 - 1:01:50] ▶
Then we started to experiment with more and more high powered radar and we had that at
[1:01:50 - 1:01:55] ▶
White Sands and I think we had that probably at Wright Airfield.
[1:01:55 - 1:01:58] ▶
I think we've had that at Air Force bases across the US and then I think they're attracted
[1:01:58 - 1:02:01] ▶
So I think they can be disrupted by some of these high powered radars.
[1:02:02 - 1:02:07] ▶
This is where the conversation kind of gets weird because I...
[1:02:07 - 1:02:10] ▶
And they're not aware of our high powered radar.
[1:02:10 - 1:02:13] ▶
I think that's possible, man.
[1:02:13 - 1:02:15] ▶
I mean, there's also...
[1:02:15 - 1:02:16] ▶
I think it's possible.
[1:02:17 - 1:02:19] ▶
They could not be...
[1:02:19 - 1:02:22] ▶
Talk about directed energy weapons.
[1:02:23 - 1:02:25] ▶
Yeah, and it's weird.
[1:02:26 - 1:02:27] ▶
I don't like talking about it because I think it's kind of fucked up to be honest.
[1:02:27 - 1:02:32] ▶
I don't think that should be...
[1:02:32 - 1:02:36] ▶
Yeah, it's kind of weird.
[1:02:36 - 1:02:37] ▶
Well, just messing with these things at all.
[1:02:40 - 1:02:43] ▶
I think they're not interfering with us and so we shouldn't interfere with it totally.
[1:02:43 - 1:02:49] ▶
But yeah, I think as far as that being possible, I don't think we know what they are.
[1:02:49 - 1:02:54] ▶
Assuming they travel to Cosmos to get here and they're so advanced or whatever and then
[1:02:55 - 1:02:58] ▶
they get messed up due to our...
[1:02:58 - 1:03:01] ▶
Like, how do we have the hubris to think that we could pop them out of the sky with this
[1:03:01 - 1:03:05] ▶
It's like, we don't know what they are and why they're here and there are ways in which
[1:03:06 - 1:03:10] ▶
you could be extremely advanced and then ways in which you could be super simple.
[1:03:10 - 1:03:12] ▶
Like, AGI is way more advanced, not AGI.
[1:03:12 - 1:03:15] ▶
Any AI model is way more advanced on vector calculus than a human.
[1:03:15 - 1:03:19] ▶
Way more advanced when it comes to snap intuition and judgment of multi-modal stuff across
[1:03:19 - 1:03:25] ▶
Humans are way more advanced than AI.
[1:03:26 - 1:03:29] ▶
So this idea that they are stepwise better than us in every single way and can't crash
[1:03:29 - 1:03:33] ▶
I think is ridiculous.
[1:03:33 - 1:03:35] ▶
And then it also is predicated on the space alien thing that again, we don't know.
[1:03:35 - 1:03:39] ▶
They could just exist in this kind of interior fabric of reality.
[1:03:39 - 1:03:42] ▶
They could be kind of mostly ignoring us outside of certain things that light up in our
[1:03:42 - 1:03:47] ▶
population around consciousness or nuclear, things of that nature.
[1:03:47 - 1:03:52] ▶
And so, yeah, the development of certain weapons technology might interfere with them and
[1:03:52 - 1:03:56] ▶
I don't think that's crazy to say.
[1:03:56 - 1:03:59] ▶
Well, it might not be as crazy if they were sending things that weren't biological, right?
[1:03:59 - 1:04:03] ▶
If they were sending sort of drones through or conicence drones, like we send to other planets.
[1:04:03 - 1:04:08] ▶
Everybody I know is deep on this topic says that the biological stuff, they're drones.
[1:04:08 - 1:04:13] ▶
And like the the grays and all this.
[1:04:13 - 1:04:14] ▶
They're like 3D printed things.
[1:04:14 - 1:04:16] ▶
They're anatomically compiled.
[1:04:16 - 1:04:19] ▶
What is DARPA looking into right now?
[1:04:19 - 1:04:21] ▶
Like programming biology.
[1:04:21 - 1:04:23] ▶
So like that's probably what they are too.
[1:04:24 - 1:04:25] ▶
And if you think talk look at like all the interactions with the alien beings, they're
[1:04:25 - 1:04:29] ▶
always like do not fear, do not fear.
[1:04:29 - 1:04:31] ▶
This will take a second.
[1:04:32 - 1:04:33] ▶
And then they like, you know, this is like an incision and they like put an implant in
[1:04:33 - 1:04:36] ▶
you and then they go away.
[1:04:36 - 1:04:38] ▶
And so like they are doing a low level task.
[1:04:38 - 1:04:41] ▶
They're probably not the beings themselves.
[1:04:41 - 1:04:42] ▶
They're probably Von Neumann replicator on voice to like achieve a specific function.
[1:04:42 - 1:04:47] ▶
So it's not going to be that catastrophic if they lose something.
[1:04:48 - 1:04:50] ▶
If they lose something to a lightning strike or a D.E.W. or whatever.
[1:04:51 - 1:04:54] ▶
No, it's like your little robot avatar.
[1:04:54 - 1:04:56] ▶
But some people think that they're crashing on purpose, right?
[1:04:56 - 1:04:59] ▶
Yeah, we're like, yeah, it's like a donation or a gift.
[1:04:59 - 1:05:02] ▶
You just jock the light speculates that I don't, this is where I have no idea.
[1:05:02 - 1:05:06] ▶
But I do believe there are crashes.
[1:05:06 - 1:05:08] ▶
There are just so many, I mean, Leonard Schringfield at 119 cases.
[1:05:08 - 1:05:11] ▶
There's a guy named Ryan Wood who has 104 cases.
[1:05:11 - 1:05:13] ▶
Most of which are uncorrelated with the Leonard Schringfield cases.
[1:05:14 - 1:05:17] ▶
So when you're talking about those like anatomically 3D printed biological beings that everyone
[1:05:17 - 1:05:24] ▶
thinks about is like the little gray aliens.
[1:05:24 - 1:05:26] ▶
When I had Greer in here last week, he's as soon as I said that to ask him about those things,
[1:05:27 - 1:05:30] ▶
he goes, oh, that's just CIA.
[1:05:30 - 1:05:32] ▶
I'm like, what about with the straver?
[1:05:32 - 1:05:33] ▶
He's like, oh, that's all CIA.
[1:05:33 - 1:05:35] ▶
That's all CIA, mind control stuff.
[1:05:35 - 1:05:37] ▶
He completely brushed it off as like intelligence black shit happening.
[1:05:37 - 1:05:42] ▶
He, his, his, easy straw man for anything that he thinks is like fake in the UFO world
[1:05:43 - 1:05:50] ▶
is it's like Intel, national security, deep state, whatever.
[1:05:50 - 1:05:54] ▶
Like I, I just think that's like super close minded thinking and like, I don't know, I don't
[1:05:54 - 1:05:57] ▶
It could be in the case of Whitley.
[1:05:58 - 1:05:59] ▶
Whitley did, Whitley is a really interesting story where he was, you did a great podcast
[1:05:59 - 1:06:04] ▶
with him that everybody should check out, but there were experiments done on him as a child
[1:06:04 - 1:06:08] ▶
at Randolph Air Force Base near San Antonio, I believe.
[1:06:08 - 1:06:11] ▶
Did he tell you about when he went to Mexico?
[1:06:11 - 1:06:13] ▶
That was very strange as well.
[1:06:15 - 1:06:16] ▶
So I don't, I don't know what to make of.
[1:06:17 - 1:06:19] ▶
I don't know if you like have like a theory there.
[1:06:20 - 1:06:22] ▶
I mean, I'll, and that's I think less of an uncommon story than people realize as
[1:06:22 - 1:06:27] ▶
These like gate programs, he's gifted and talented, talented student programs recruiting
[1:06:28 - 1:06:33] ▶
kids, stranger types, type of, stranger things.
[1:06:33 - 1:06:35] ▶
First of all, when he came in that podcast, I didn't know he had an implant and he fucking
[1:06:39 - 1:06:44] ▶
dropped that on me right when we started recording.
[1:06:44 - 1:06:45] ▶
Did he, by the way, touch the implant or see?
[1:06:45 - 1:06:47] ▶
No, I didn't touch it, but he gave me, he showed me a video.
[1:06:47 - 1:06:49] ▶
You should have, dude, because that thing is weird.
[1:06:49 - 1:06:51] ▶
He sent me a video of it.
[1:06:52 - 1:06:54] ▶
There's a video of it I have.
[1:06:54 - 1:06:55] ▶
And then he showed me like the x-rays of it.
[1:06:55 - 1:06:57] ▶
I saw you touch it though.
[1:06:57 - 1:06:58] ▶
Yeah, that's very easy.
[1:06:58 - 1:06:59] ▶
He says that he says that it moves around.
[1:06:59 - 1:07:03] ▶
Yeah, that's what he said.
[1:07:03 - 1:07:04] ▶
He said they tried to take it out and it just moved like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:07:04 - 1:07:06] ▶
Which also is a common thing that you hear of these things move on their own metabolism,
[1:07:06 - 1:07:11] ▶
which is, that's, that's very common with the implant thing.
[1:07:11 - 1:07:14] ▶
So again, it points to this kind of biological drone thing.
[1:07:14 - 1:07:17] ▶
Have you, so have you read all Whitley's books or just read?
[1:07:17 - 1:07:20] ▶
No, I've just read Communion.
[1:07:20 - 1:07:21] ▶
So there's a bunch of other stuff.
[1:07:21 - 1:07:23] ▶
Oh, and I read his book on Jesus.
[1:07:23 - 1:07:24] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that one too.
[1:07:26 - 1:07:28] ▶
But there's a lot of, there's a lot of interesting stuff that he didn't include in communion
[1:07:28 - 1:07:33] ▶
that he does include in his other books.
[1:07:33 - 1:07:35] ▶
This fella I had on the show, Jason George Johnnie is like, I've seen that episode.
[1:07:35 - 1:07:39] ▶
He is a historian of Whitley's streamer.
[1:07:39 - 1:07:41] ▶
He's read every single book front to back multiple times and like, I spent like two hours
[1:07:41 - 1:07:46] ▶
on the phone with him before I had Whitley in here.
[1:07:46 - 1:07:49] ▶
And there's a lot of other interesting things like wild, wild things that he left out
[1:07:49 - 1:07:53] ▶
Like, for example, there's one scene in one of his books.
[1:07:54 - 1:07:57] ▶
I can't remember the name of the book, but where he talks about when the alien girl is
[1:07:57 - 1:08:01] ▶
like riding him, okay?
[1:08:01 - 1:08:04] ▶
He says there's a CIA guy in the room watching him.
[1:08:04 - 1:08:07] ▶
A CIA guy that he watching him have sex with an alien.
[1:08:08 - 1:08:11] ▶
Watching him have sex with an alien.
[1:08:11 - 1:08:13] ▶
And like, like, how do you explain that?
[1:08:15 - 1:08:16] ▶
Well, first of all, why did you leave that out of the book?
[1:08:16 - 1:08:18] ▶
I think I talked, I don't know if I remember if I asked him about that in the podcast.
[1:08:20 - 1:08:23] ▶
But like, there's, there's so many just bizarre and then also like the history of him going
[1:08:23 - 1:08:29] ▶
And like, he didn't want to talk about that to me on the show.
[1:08:31 - 1:08:33] ▶
I don't know if you talked about it with you, but like, apparently there were some kids
[1:08:33 - 1:08:37] ▶
who went down to Mexico and he was a part of it where he was at some house that was like
[1:08:37 - 1:08:42] ▶
guarded by the military and it was all military stuff where they were like, subjecting children
[1:08:42 - 1:08:47] ▶
to watching like, like murder videos.
[1:08:47 - 1:08:50] ▶
People getting like tortured and murdered is something to do something to their mind.
[1:08:51 - 1:08:54] ▶
To like, to induce some sort of trauma to these children, right?
[1:08:55 - 1:08:59] ▶
So if you combine that with his stories, what do you, I don't know what to make of that?
[1:08:59 - 1:09:05] ▶
Well, I do think the inducing of trauma and dissociation is more common than we
[1:09:05 - 1:09:12] ▶
realize when it comes to these programs that recruit kids and try to find kids with high
[1:09:12 - 1:09:18] ▶
And this is going to sound nuts to the average person who doesn't believe that there's
[1:09:19 - 1:09:23] ▶
any sort of mind, matter, interaction or whatever.
[1:09:23 - 1:09:25] ▶
But parapsychology has been studied at elite universities since, you know, mid-century Stanford
[1:09:25 - 1:09:31] ▶
Research Institute, Princeton, you know, engineering and anomalous research, parallel, Duke, the
[1:09:31 - 1:09:38] ▶
Ryan Center from 1931, 1960 was the first one in the US.
[1:09:38 - 1:09:45] ▶
And I think Aerospace is known about this for a long time.
[1:09:45 - 1:09:49] ▶
And unfortunately, I think we have a dark past, checkered past when it comes to MK Ultra,
[1:09:49 - 1:09:54] ▶
which came out in the church committee in 1975.
[1:09:54 - 1:09:58] ▶
And I think MK Ultra and a lot of this psychic stuff dealt with trying to find kids and
[1:09:58 - 1:10:06] ▶
You know, I find Whitley to be pretty honest in his readout of things, you know, like
[1:10:08 - 1:10:13] ▶
it's not like a, he's like a good guy.
[1:10:13 - 1:10:15] ▶
And then like, you know, I don't know what to make of any of this stuff.
[1:10:15 - 1:10:18] ▶
I just know what people say and repeat it.
[1:10:18 - 1:10:19] ▶
Well, I think, I think, and then you can obviously remember things falsely as you're getting
[1:10:21 - 1:10:25] ▶
So I don't know on that, but I would be lying if I weren't to say that that didn't kind
[1:10:27 - 1:10:33] ▶
of pattern match to other stories that you hear.
[1:10:33 - 1:10:37] ▶
I just interviewed a psionic asset on my show.
[1:10:39 - 1:10:42] ▶
Oh, but Jake Barber does say he says he kind of hints at this.
[1:10:45 - 1:10:48] ▶
He goes, I was traumatized.
[1:10:48 - 1:10:50] ▶
He had a really rough childhood stepfather didn't treat him super well.
[1:10:50 - 1:10:54] ▶
And he kind of talks about how he was gifted as well where he was like, you know, he had
[1:10:54 - 1:10:59] ▶
matched colors up as a kid with major chords and minor chords.
[1:10:59 - 1:11:03] ▶
And so certain colors would make you happy.
[1:11:03 - 1:11:05] ▶
Like a major chord, certain colors would make you sad, like a minor chord.
[1:11:05 - 1:11:09] ▶
And to me, like my like almost coded read on that is like, maybe, you know, he was part
[1:11:09 - 1:11:17] ▶
of something as a kid or maybe they like, they, they, they looked at him or yeah, maybe,
[1:11:17 - 1:11:21] ▶
maybe early on, they thought that he had something kind of special going on.
[1:11:21 - 1:11:25] ▶
And that, again, it's a, a lot of stuff around gate programs in the US.
[1:11:25 - 1:11:29] ▶
I think are going to come out in the next year.
[1:11:29 - 1:11:32] ▶
Gifted and talented education.
[1:11:34 - 1:11:35] ▶
I think a lot, a lot of stuff there is going to, stranger things style stuff.
[1:11:37 - 1:11:40] ▶
I think stranger things as a show will look a lot more real than people now think it is
[1:11:40 - 1:11:46] ▶
in a couple of years from now.
[1:11:46 - 1:11:48] ▶
And there are people I know deeper than me on this who are the tip of the spear as far as
[1:11:49 - 1:11:53] ▶
investigative research on this stuff.
[1:11:53 - 1:11:54] ▶
So I'm not trying to blow up their spot.
[1:11:54 - 1:11:57] ▶
And yeah, but it's kind of, it's kind of weird.
[1:11:57 - 1:12:00] ▶
That's putting it away.
[1:12:02 - 1:12:03] ▶
Like it's messed up.
[1:12:03 - 1:12:05] ▶
I was just like, my pause with the shit with people like Jake Barber and all the whistle
[1:12:05 - 1:12:11] ▶
blowers for that matter is that if I am a part of this secret government, right, or the
[1:12:11 - 1:12:17] ▶
secret rogue, private organization that has possession and understands this super anti-gravity
[1:12:17 - 1:12:26] ▶
UFO technology, contacting non-human intelligence, whatever it is, it seems like something that's
[1:12:26 - 1:12:31] ▶
so much more powerful than anything that the US government would even have or any government
[1:12:31 - 1:12:35] ▶
And if I wanted to protect my secrets, I would absolutely send out fake whistle blowers.
[1:12:37 - 1:12:45] ▶
I think we don't know exactly what to do with what we have.
[1:12:47 - 1:12:49] ▶
I think we have bits and, okay, take this analogy.
[1:12:49 - 1:12:52] ▶
If you had, you gave a thumb drive to a caveman.
[1:12:52 - 1:12:56] ▶
Would they have any idea what to do with it?
[1:12:56 - 1:12:58] ▶
They don't know information theory.
[1:12:58 - 1:12:59] ▶
They don't have a computer to plug it into.
[1:12:59 - 1:13:01] ▶
They just look at this thing.
[1:13:01 - 1:13:02] ▶
They'd probably like try to make a fire with it.
[1:13:02 - 1:13:03] ▶
Right, right, right.
[1:13:03 - 1:13:04] ▶
So like, I think that's, you know, maybe you can get some interesting derivative technology.
[1:13:04 - 1:13:10] ▶
Maybe the, you know, the nickel alloy titanium, maybe we've done some interesting stuff with
[1:13:10 - 1:13:14] ▶
You know, maybe they're elements of the Philip J. Corso day after Roswell, you know,
[1:13:15 - 1:13:19] ▶
narrative that are true, that some of this stuff has made its way into civil side, you
[1:13:19 - 1:13:22] ▶
know, infrastructure.
[1:13:22 - 1:13:23] ▶
Elements of it, I think there's clearly falsities in that book.
[1:13:24 - 1:13:27] ▶
I don't think semi-conductors required, you know, alien tech to, you know, their patents
[1:13:27 - 1:13:32] ▶
of transistors that go way back to the 30s.
[1:13:32 - 1:13:35] ▶
But by and large, I think we're extremely confused and in the Stone Age on what we've
[1:13:35 - 1:13:39] ▶
And so if you find this stuff and it's like Cold War era, I mean, the US government, the
[1:13:40 - 1:13:45] ▶
US, the people who know what's going on.
[1:13:45 - 1:13:48] ▶
And so like, yeah, I mean, just like America.
[1:13:49 - 1:13:51] ▶
I don't know if you meant me or if you meant the guy that's working on the graph.
[1:13:52 - 1:13:54] ▶
Let me tell you, you got a stash, Danny.
[1:13:54 - 1:13:57] ▶
No, I think, I think like the programs around this stuff, I don't, I don't think they know
[1:13:58 - 1:14:03] ▶
exactly what they're working with or what they're doing.
[1:14:03 - 1:14:06] ▶
And to me, that explains a lot of like, you like, you, you need, in the era of Cold War
[1:14:06 - 1:14:14] ▶
secrecy, you know, we're like way ahead of like China and Russia on like retrieving this
[1:14:14 - 1:14:20] ▶
stuff to begin with.
[1:14:20 - 1:14:21] ▶
And like you can keep it super over compartmentalized, right?
[1:14:21 - 1:14:24] ▶
And like, that's fine.
[1:14:24 - 1:14:25] ▶
Then all of a sudden, if like, Cold War ends and then now we're probably back in another
[1:14:27 - 1:14:32] ▶
Cold War and it's this multipolar kind of scary thing and China starts to catch up and
[1:14:32 - 1:14:36] ▶
like eat our lunch on some of this stuff.
[1:14:36 - 1:14:38] ▶
Then all of a sudden, you need like some civil side eyes, like a lot of our best and brightest
[1:14:38 - 1:14:43] ▶
are not working at like, Lockheed or Northrop or like any of these places.
[1:14:43 - 1:14:48] ▶
So you need to like, let certain things out.
[1:14:48 - 1:14:51] ▶
And so that, I'm not cynical about, you know, a lot of these whistleblowers, I think they're
[1:14:51 - 1:14:57] ▶
genuinely wanting to come out.
[1:14:57 - 1:14:58] ▶
Why they might have some sort of top cover or like, why they're not dead.
[1:14:58 - 1:15:03] ▶
To me, might be explained by, you got to kind of let the cat out of the bag somewhat, if
[1:15:03 - 1:15:09] ▶
that makes sense, because you need certain eyes on this thing.
[1:15:09 - 1:15:12] ▶
Because I don't think we've made a ton of progress on many dimensions, you know?
[1:15:12 - 1:15:17] ▶
I've heard rumors that we have alien reproduction vehicles or advanced research vehicles that
[1:15:17 - 1:15:22] ▶
patterned out to the UFOs and we've made them flyable.
[1:15:22 - 1:15:25] ▶
And then I just don't know, I don't know if that's like, you know, how much progress
[1:15:25 - 1:15:29] ▶
we've actually made.
[1:15:29 - 1:15:30] ▶
So, and then even if we have made progress, it's really that fundamental question of like,
[1:15:30 - 1:15:34] ▶
if we're at parity with China or Russia, then this stuff has to come out somewhat, if
[1:15:34 - 1:15:40] ▶
And then we live in this like information age too, where it's just like impossible to
[1:15:43 - 1:15:46] ▶
keep a lid on this shit.
[1:15:46 - 1:15:47] ▶
And I do think there's the snowball effects where somebody displays a tremendous amount
[1:15:47 - 1:15:51] ▶
of courage like David Grush, where he pieces together all this stuff and he goes forward
[1:15:51 - 1:15:56] ▶
to the inspector, the IC inspector general gives him a thousand pages and offers to say,
[1:15:56 - 1:16:01] ▶
I'll go to skip with anybody and I'll show you where the bodies are buried and I can
[1:16:01 - 1:16:05] ▶
give you the exact addresses of the facilities and stuff.
[1:16:05 - 1:16:08] ▶
It does this in front of Congress.
[1:16:08 - 1:16:10] ▶
And I think if you're on the program, you're somebody like Jake and you're seeing that,
[1:16:10 - 1:16:13] ▶
you're like, this guy's really courageous.
[1:16:13 - 1:16:15] ▶
And it inspires you.
[1:16:15 - 1:16:16] ▶
You know, it's like the banister effect.
[1:16:16 - 1:16:18] ▶
Roger banister broke the four minute mile and then 10 people broke the four minute
[1:16:18 - 1:16:22] ▶
mile, like two years after him.
[1:16:22 - 1:16:24] ▶
I think you see somebody go a little, you know, you've had like moral qualms about what
[1:16:24 - 1:16:28] ▶
you've been doing already and you see somebody like, you know, take it this far and you're
[1:16:28 - 1:16:32] ▶
like, okay, well, I know a little bit more and I can probably help with this effort.
[1:16:32 - 1:16:35] ▶
And I'm going to go a little farther.
[1:16:35 - 1:16:37] ▶
I can see the problem though, what you alluded to in that conversation with Jake that if
[1:16:38 - 1:16:43] ▶
all of this super high tech secretive war stuff that we're working on is so compartmentalized
[1:16:43 - 1:16:49] ▶
and not available to even people in the highest levels of the military and, you know, the
[1:16:49 - 1:16:55] ▶
highest generals and the president, like if we get into a war, I'm sure that Russia
[1:16:55 - 1:17:00] ▶
and China under their dictatorships, they're going to be able to get shit done instantly
[1:17:00 - 1:17:05] ▶
and they probably don't have this problem of compartmentalization and keeping secrets
[1:17:05 - 1:17:08] ▶
from their actual government.
[1:17:08 - 1:17:09] ▶
So, like, that's not, that's a problem.
[1:17:11 - 1:17:12] ▶
That's a huge problem from a national security standpoint.
[1:17:12 - 1:17:14] ▶
I mean, read the three body problem and like, that's how it goes down.
[1:17:14 - 1:17:18] ▶
It's like you see like a scientist that, you know, you're the CCP or the, you know,
[1:17:18 - 1:17:23] ▶
And you see a scientist like working on some really interesting neutrino info transfer.
[1:17:24 - 1:17:30] ▶
You have something like really far out crazy stuff that like, you don't have, you just
[1:17:30 - 1:17:34] ▶
knock on their door.
[1:17:34 - 1:17:35] ▶
You say, we're relocating you.
[1:17:35 - 1:17:37] ▶
You're working at this base.
[1:17:38 - 1:17:39] ▶
That's the way it goes.
[1:17:39 - 1:17:40] ▶
That's the way the US, the US is like, you have these competing factions, you have all
[1:17:40 - 1:17:44] ▶
this, you know, it's just, it's way more of this kind of uncoordinated octopus.
[1:17:44 - 1:17:48] ▶
That's a good way to put it in.
[1:17:50 - 1:17:51] ▶
So, I think the reason, you know, I think a lot of these NDAs that people have signed
[1:17:51 - 1:17:55] ▶
in the aerospace context to work on this stuff in the past are extremely threatening.
[1:17:55 - 1:17:59] ▶
And they're, you know, really scary retributions that could occur hypothetically for a lot of
[1:17:59 - 1:18:03] ▶
And then I do think whatever legacy programs like don't want anything to come.
[1:18:05 - 1:18:10] ▶
Come back, come out or on their back heels.
[1:18:10 - 1:18:13] ▶
And they're like, the, the, the, some limited disclosure has to occur.
[1:18:13 - 1:18:16] ▶
And I think they're sort of, they're, they're kind of like, we don't quite know what to
[1:18:16 - 1:18:19] ▶
And I think my hope is there are people on the inside who are a little more like, we need
[1:18:20 - 1:18:27] ▶
basic ontological truths to come out.
[1:18:27 - 1:18:29] ▶
It's like nuclear stuff, right?
[1:18:29 - 1:18:30] ▶
Like you have nuclear physics, you have programs all over the country.
[1:18:30 - 1:18:33] ▶
The idea is that there could be bodies and crafts.
[1:18:37 - 1:18:39] ▶
People need to know this shit.
[1:18:39 - 1:18:40] ▶
And then, you know, anything that, you know, any trade secret that could immediately be
[1:18:42 - 1:18:47] ▶
weaponized or as low-barried entry, you know, blow up the world kind of stuff, that obviously
[1:18:47 - 1:18:51] ▶
should be classified.
[1:18:51 - 1:18:52] ▶
And we just need to think about it reasonably through through through those lens.
[1:18:53 - 1:18:55] ▶
But I do, I do think there are people on the inside who are just dogmatically pro secrecy
[1:18:55 - 1:18:59] ▶
because it's like this like cargo cult bureaucracy thing.
[1:18:59 - 1:19:03] ▶
It's like they don't, they don't understand how to be any other way or something.
[1:19:03 - 1:19:06] ▶
The most frightening thing is that if this rogue government that's like has its own
[1:19:07 - 1:19:13] ▶
Air Force military, Navy, whatever that has all this power and has this technology that
[1:19:13 - 1:19:21] ▶
could essentially like beat any world government's technology as far as like war or whatever
[1:19:21 - 1:19:27] ▶
And if they go row and they start and if they decide to start a war against the rest
[1:19:28 - 1:19:32] ▶
of the world, like that's the worst.
[1:19:32 - 1:19:35] ▶
That seems like the scariest thing regarding these companies that have this stuff because
[1:19:35 - 1:19:41] ▶
what what's going to stop them from just keep from keeping more secrets from you and just
[1:19:41 - 1:19:46] ▶
and just taking this technology and exponentially gaining more information and and revealing
[1:19:46 - 1:19:55] ▶
more insight into it and understanding more about the universe and keeping that shit
[1:19:55 - 1:20:00] ▶
Turns it to like a breakaway stop.
[1:20:02 - 1:20:03] ▶
Well, it's like a company that's more powerful than any country, you know?
[1:20:09 - 1:20:10] ▶
I did find it very interesting that like Matthew Libblesberger that Green Beret, he blows
[1:20:10 - 1:20:15] ▶
up a cyber truck in front of Trump towers.
[1:20:15 - 1:20:18] ▶
So it's like this weird message or something.
[1:20:18 - 1:20:21] ▶
Felt kind of symbolic like some sort of meme warfare thing.
[1:20:23 - 1:20:25] ▶
And then the email he sends to Sam Schumat who goes on Sean Ryan is all about Chinese
[1:20:25 - 1:20:31] ▶
grvitic propulsion drones, which I think is China is not flying with impunity with,
[1:20:31 - 1:20:37] ▶
you know, electrogravity propulsion.
[1:20:37 - 1:20:39] ▶
Like that's game over, right?
[1:20:39 - 1:20:40] ▶
Like that's like we're in the Cuban Missile Crisis.
[1:20:40 - 1:20:42] ▶
It's been going on for three months or what.
[1:20:42 - 1:20:43] ▶
But maybe it's sort of a little bit of a shot across the bow, depending on what was
[1:20:45 - 1:20:52] ▶
what force was behind that because clearly he was dealing with a lot of trauma PTSD.
[1:20:52 - 1:20:57] ▶
You know, I think was like a good guy in his private life, but like what leads somebody
[1:20:58 - 1:21:03] ▶
who's like that to do that and to send that email?
[1:21:03 - 1:21:07] ▶
And I did speak to a Green Beret about this and he was like, maybe this is a way to let
[1:21:07 - 1:21:12] ▶
out some of the gravity stuff that, you know, we have made breakthroughs with.
[1:21:12 - 1:21:17] ▶
So think about it like this.
[1:21:17 - 1:21:18] ▶
Like maybe you're sending a little shot across the bow again to Elon Trump, you know,
[1:21:18 - 1:21:22] ▶
it's civil side government.
[1:21:22 - 1:21:23] ▶
And you're saying we've got some some harder core shit that you don't have.
[1:21:23 - 1:21:28] ▶
And again, this is deep conspiracy.
[1:21:28 - 1:21:31] ▶
I would hold this very kind of loosely low probability, but it goes to the point that,
[1:21:31 - 1:21:36] ▶
you know, you've made.
[1:21:36 - 1:21:37] ▶
And then yeah, I don't know.
[1:21:37 - 1:21:38] ▶
I don't know where they are technologically.
[1:21:39 - 1:21:40] ▶
And if they even have the power to sort of to sort of flex and do that.
[1:21:40 - 1:21:44] ▶
But I do think that aerospace has some pretty advanced technology that, you know, those
[1:21:44 - 1:21:51] ▶
drones over New Jersey.
[1:21:51 - 1:21:52] ▶
They didn't seem like anything special.
[1:21:52 - 1:21:54] ▶
Like they seem moving like regular drones.
[1:21:54 - 1:21:56] ▶
Like they weren't moving at light speed or like they weren't moving like tick-tax making
[1:21:56 - 1:22:00] ▶
They were just like floating around like normal quadcopter.
[1:22:01 - 1:22:03] ▶
They were floating around for longer periods of time than you would ever expect.
[1:22:03 - 1:22:06] ▶
Like, you know, hours, hours at a time they'd stay stationary.
[1:22:06 - 1:22:10] ▶
So they were exhibiting some kind of exotic effects with the kind of winds and stuff.
[1:22:10 - 1:22:14] ▶
But like, yeah, generally.
[1:22:14 - 1:22:16] ▶
And then I would make a huge distinction between a lot of people were seeing orbs and like
[1:22:16 - 1:22:21] ▶
And then there were like the fixed wing drones that looked like they were meeting FAA
[1:22:22 - 1:22:25] ▶
regs, which were obviously human.
[1:22:25 - 1:22:27] ▶
And so I would make a clear distinction between those two things.
[1:22:27 - 1:22:30] ▶
I would also make a distinction between the stuff showing up at nuclear bases, which if
[1:22:30 - 1:22:34] ▶
you know Robert Hastings were.
[1:22:34 - 1:22:36] ▶
That looks more, I don't want to say paranormal because that sounds quacky.
[1:22:36 - 1:22:40] ▶
But that looks more like of the UFO, the classic UFO variety.
[1:22:40 - 1:22:44] ▶
You have to classify it probably.
[1:22:45 - 1:22:46] ▶
They understand that the New Jersey stuff didn't seem like anything near the UFO variety.
[1:22:46 - 1:22:50] ▶
No, I agree with that.
[1:22:50 - 1:22:51] ▶
And then you had salient nuclear plant right there and you had stuff showing up there and
[1:22:52 - 1:22:56] ▶
it picked a teni arsenal.
[1:22:56 - 1:22:57] ▶
You had stuff showing up.
[1:22:59 - 1:23:00] ▶
Right, right, right.
[1:23:00 - 1:23:01] ▶
I think it was definitely our government or one of our government contractors that was
[1:23:01 - 1:23:03] ▶
I don't know what they were doing.
[1:23:04 - 1:23:05] ▶
But did you hear the audio of, you know, right Patterson's like comms links were down.
[1:23:05 - 1:23:10] ▶
Like their power was out for like a few hours.
[1:23:10 - 1:23:12] ▶
Like that to me is classic Robert Hastings UFOs and nukes.
[1:23:12 - 1:23:16] ▶
And that was happening around that time.
[1:23:16 - 1:23:17] ▶
What happened with the right Patterson?
[1:23:17 - 1:23:19] ▶
I thought they just had to, I thought they just had to like shut down the runway or something
[1:23:19 - 1:23:22] ▶
for no, I think the power was out for a couple of hours.
[1:23:22 - 1:23:26] ▶
I believe either the power cost all comms were down for a little bit.
[1:23:29 - 1:23:32] ▶
And then you can do this up.
[1:23:33 - 1:23:34] ▶
Yeah, I think it's on Twitter is where.
[1:23:37 - 1:23:40] ▶
What would we search?
[1:23:40 - 1:23:41] ▶
Right Patterson communications outage.
[1:23:42 - 1:23:48] ▶
And there's an audio.
[1:23:48 - 1:23:49] ▶
And there's an audio.
[1:23:49 - 1:23:50] ▶
And there's an Air Force base experienced a closure of its airspace for about four hours
[1:23:50 - 1:23:54] ▶
late Friday night into early Saturday morning.
[1:23:54 - 1:23:56] ▶
Do the sightings of small, unman aerial systems drones in a vicinity of the base.
[1:23:56 - 1:24:01] ▶
The base's airspace was closed as a precautionary measure to ensure the safety of the installation
[1:24:01 - 1:24:06] ▶
No property was damaged or residents harmed during the instance.
[1:24:08 - 1:24:10] ▶
So they closed the airspace.
[1:24:10 - 1:24:12] ▶
And I guess there was, there maybe there wasn't a comms outage.
[1:24:13 - 1:24:15] ▶
It was like, it was precautionary because there was stuff flying around it.
[1:24:15 - 1:24:18] ▶
I did hear, I did hear, I did hear like a some sort of radio comp thing too where they were
[1:24:22 - 1:24:28] ▶
talking about like shutting down the airspace or.
[1:24:28 - 1:24:31] ▶
I have a crazy one for you.
[1:24:31 - 1:24:33] ▶
So in 2010 after Robert Hastings read his book which was 2008, Effie Warren experienced
[1:24:33 - 1:24:38] ▶
an outage for Effie Warren.
[1:24:38 - 1:24:41] ▶
Effie Warren is a nuclear base in Wyoming.
[1:24:41 - 1:24:43] ▶
And it experienced an outage for they said 59 minutes but Robert Hastings did back
[1:24:44 - 1:24:48] ▶
channeling and it was 24 hours because I know Bama was briefed on this.
[1:24:48 - 1:24:52] ▶
Now do Effie Warren outage Atlantic?
[1:24:52 - 1:24:57] ▶
Effie Warren, yeah, outage Atlantic and you'll see that this was reported on by like mainstream
[1:24:57 - 1:25:05] ▶
media and I don't know if they give it a hand.
[1:25:05 - 1:25:09] ▶
Did you have a broadband?
[1:25:09 - 1:25:10] ▶
No, like the Atlantic, like the, you know, the, the, the periodical or whatever.
[1:25:10 - 1:25:14] ▶
Oh, and the Atlantic magazine.
[1:25:15 - 1:25:17] ▶
Yeah, Atlantic magazine.
[1:25:17 - 1:25:18] ▶
Is that a power outage?
[1:25:22 - 1:25:23] ▶
Failure shut that third article.
[1:25:26 - 1:25:27] ▶
So I thought, okay, this is really crazy.
[1:25:30 - 1:25:32] ▶
So President Obama was briefed on this and Hastings back channeled with this guy, this
[1:25:32 - 1:25:38] ▶
retired missile technician named John Mills.
[1:25:38 - 1:25:41] ▶
And he back channeled with some missile security officers on site and were like, there
[1:25:42 - 1:25:47] ▶
was a tick-tack flying around all over the base and that caused the outage.
[1:25:47 - 1:25:51] ▶
Is this like one of the minute men, missile silos, like where they have those underground
[1:25:51 - 1:25:55] ▶
I know, Malmstrom is.
[1:25:56 - 1:25:57] ▶
I don't know if Effie Warren is.
[1:25:57 - 1:25:58] ▶
But this is what's crazy is you can even see in the article at the top of the article, engineering.
[1:25:59 - 1:26:04] ▶
So power is crossed out.
[1:26:04 - 1:26:06] ▶
And then it goes into engineering failure.
[1:26:07 - 1:26:09] ▶
I think it's covering their ass.
[1:26:09 - 1:26:11] ▶
I think they don't want it to seem like it was attributed to a UFO or to a tick-tack
[1:26:11 - 1:26:15] ▶
or whatever, which again, Robert Hastings back to.
[1:26:15 - 1:26:18] ▶
And by the way, I should say, I think, you know, I was wrong about the right path thing.
[1:26:18 - 1:26:21] ▶
So I don't want to like conflate like this is another thing that I think is very legit.
[1:26:21 - 1:26:29] ▶
But I mean, that's huge when they shut down a nuclear base.
[1:26:29 - 1:26:32] ▶
Dude, Obama was briefed.
[1:26:32 - 1:26:33] ▶
And then they're crossing out power and they're making it seem like it's an engineering
[1:26:38 - 1:26:46] ▶
Three other LCCs were successfully restarted.
[1:26:48 - 1:26:51] ▶
The suspect LCC remains offline.
[1:26:51 - 1:26:54] ▶
The LCC is a launch control center.
[1:26:57 - 1:27:01] ▶
So the LCC, the launch controls centers, they lost comms.
[1:27:04 - 1:27:08] ▶
Like they can launch the thing if they want to.
[1:27:08 - 1:27:10] ▶
They want to tear each missile in sequence.
[1:27:10 - 1:27:12] ▶
So if they begin to send signals out when they're not supposed to, receivers on the missiles,
[1:27:12 - 1:27:17] ▶
on the missiles themselves will notice this and send out error codes.
[1:27:17 - 1:27:24] ▶
It left 50 missiles in the dark.
[1:27:24 - 1:27:26] ▶
The missiles then restarted one of the LCCs and began and normally, wow, dude, dude,
[1:27:26 - 1:27:32] ▶
And then you're doing, you know, Hastings who I think is a very honest actor is doing back
[1:27:35 - 1:27:40] ▶
channeling with these guys and they're like, there's a tick-tax flying around and that's
[1:27:40 - 1:27:43] ▶
what caused the outage.
[1:27:43 - 1:27:44] ▶
And then I think one of them faces kind of career reprisals as a result of this back channel
[1:27:44 - 1:27:50] ▶
with Hastings and stuff.
[1:27:50 - 1:27:52] ▶
And then you have that, it's crossed, power is crossed out and engineering is put up.
[1:27:52 - 1:27:56] ▶
It's like the live editing is shown on the Atlantic article.
[1:27:56 - 1:27:58] ▶
That's because we're on, we're on the Brave Browser.
[1:27:58 - 1:28:03] ▶
The Brave Browser shows you all.
[1:28:03 - 1:28:05] ▶
I wonder if it shows it in Chrome.
[1:28:05 - 1:28:06] ▶
It does show it in Chrome, too.
[1:28:06 - 1:28:07] ▶
It does, because I put it in my documentary on Hastings, but okay.
[1:28:08 - 1:28:10] ▶
So anyway, so the right pat thing, that is interesting that it, I guess it sounds like
[1:28:10 - 1:28:14] ▶
they were just encouraged, they were incursions on your pat and then they ended up shutting
[1:28:14 - 1:28:17] ▶
the airspace down to the results.
[1:28:17 - 1:28:18] ▶
That wasn't a commsling failure, so that's my bad.
[1:28:18 - 1:28:20] ▶
But I think they were getting ready for the eagles to win the Super Bowl, so they had
[1:28:20 - 1:28:24] ▶
to like start figuring out how to fill it off.
[1:28:24 - 1:28:26] ▶
And the new people were going to be looting and terrorizing the whole town.
[1:28:26 - 1:28:29] ▶
We were turning that afghanistan for a week.
[1:28:29 - 1:28:31] ▶
But that just goes to the point that like if these things are showing up around sensitive
[1:28:33 - 1:28:39] ▶
military sites, it points to the nuclear connection and it points to this more generalizable
[1:28:39 - 1:28:45] ▶
three-body problem narrative where they're not just showing up at nuclear sites, they're
[1:28:45 - 1:28:49] ▶
showing up at advanced science research sites and the most sensitive military sites.
[1:28:49 - 1:28:55] ▶
And that was the case with the New Jersey Drone.
[1:28:55 - 1:28:57] ▶
The whole New Jersey Drone, the name New Jersey Drone is a sigh-up because they weren't
[1:28:57 - 1:29:02] ▶
They were at Lake in here.
[1:29:03 - 1:29:04] ▶
They were in Florida.
[1:29:04 - 1:29:05] ▶
They're everywhere and they weren't just drones.
[1:29:06 - 1:29:08] ▶
The drones were drones.
[1:29:08 - 1:29:09] ▶
You could see that we're taken down occasionally.
[1:29:09 - 1:29:12] ▶
That was blinking red and green because they're meeting FAA regs, obviously drones.
[1:29:12 - 1:29:17] ▶
You know, clearly those were drones.
[1:29:17 - 1:29:19] ▶
In fact, even the White House statement on the drones, the press secretary, Trump said,
[1:29:19 - 1:29:24] ▶
well, Trump says it's very weird, very strange.
[1:29:24 - 1:29:27] ▶
It's not adversary and they're going to the, they're coming from the garage and we know
[1:29:27 - 1:29:30] ▶
where the garage is.
[1:29:30 - 1:29:31] ▶
So that's interesting, right?
[1:29:31 - 1:29:32] ▶
And when he talks, it's just so confusing sometimes.
[1:29:34 - 1:29:36] ▶
It's very confusing, but then his white, the press secretary tries to minimize it and say
[1:29:36 - 1:29:42] ▶
there's nothing to see here.
[1:29:42 - 1:29:43] ▶
She says, oh, they were FAA approved.
[1:29:43 - 1:29:46] ▶
They were research drones.
[1:29:46 - 1:29:47] ▶
She had that begs a question.
[1:29:48 - 1:29:49] ▶
If you were given orders by the president who told you we will clear this up immediately
[1:29:49 - 1:29:54] ▶
because he was asked this as soon as he was elected.
[1:29:54 - 1:29:56] ▶
He goes, what happened there?
[1:29:56 - 1:29:57] ▶
We have to figure that out and he orders somebody to figure it out.
[1:29:57 - 1:30:00] ▶
So those were your orders.
[1:30:00 - 1:30:02] ▶
You're saying we have FAA research drones.
[1:30:02 - 1:30:04] ▶
What were they researching?
[1:30:04 - 1:30:06] ▶
If it's a prosaic, easy thing to explain away, you say it.
[1:30:06 - 1:30:09] ▶
If it's not, if it is not, then you don't say it.
[1:30:10 - 1:30:13] ▶
So I think it points to some more exotic answers.
[1:30:13 - 1:30:16] ▶
But again, I don't know.
[1:30:16 - 1:30:18] ▶
You have to think probabilistically about all this stuff and I'd be open to it not being
[1:30:19 - 1:30:23] ▶
But I think there's a lot of evidence.
[1:30:24 - 1:30:26] ▶
Also South Port New Brunswick, Duke Energy Plant, there was UFOs showing up there too.
[1:30:26 - 1:30:32] ▶
What do they look like?
[1:30:36 - 1:30:38] ▶
They look more like these plasma orb style things.
[1:30:38 - 1:30:41] ▶
Like the blood cell orbs?
[1:30:42 - 1:30:43] ▶
More like the blood cell orbs.
[1:30:43 - 1:30:45] ▶
Those look very different than these fixed wing.
[1:30:45 - 1:30:48] ▶
Like they're just different.
[1:30:48 - 1:30:49] ▶
That's why the whole thing is it's like not neutrality and it's not just drought.
[1:30:50 - 1:30:53] ▶
It's a whole host of stuff and it's again, but you get into these weird kind of questions
[1:30:53 - 1:30:57] ▶
of like, in the case in rats, were they trying to run a simulation?
[1:30:57 - 1:31:02] ▶
There's so many questions.
[1:31:02 - 1:31:03] ▶
But also in the case in which it wasn't ours.
[1:31:04 - 1:31:08] ▶
Say it, say in the case in which there were real UFOs.
[1:31:08 - 1:31:11] ▶
Like not, you know, not ours, not prosaically explained UFOs.
[1:31:11 - 1:31:14] ▶
You would probably put some stuff out to research it.
[1:31:14 - 1:31:16] ▶
You put some of our stuff out.
[1:31:16 - 1:31:18] ▶
And it's murky and it's way more charismatic and easy and goes viral much quicker to be
[1:31:19 - 1:31:25] ▶
like there's a loose nuke on the eastern seaboard.
[1:31:25 - 1:31:28] ▶
That will go viral way faster than like it's actually a whole host of things.
[1:31:28 - 1:31:31] ▶
Not that interesting.
[1:31:33 - 1:31:34] ▶
So I think that's kind of what happened.
[1:31:38 - 1:31:39] ▶
And that's why like the, you know, if there were siops around explaining things away, I think
[1:31:39 - 1:31:42] ▶
that's why it was so charismatic.
[1:31:42 - 1:31:44] ▶
But then you talk to like the nuclear support teams, the emergency teams nest or whatever.
[1:31:44 - 1:31:49] ▶
All of those guys were like, no, there's nothing there.
[1:31:49 - 1:31:51] ▶
Like, you know, nobody was like being evacuated.
[1:31:51 - 1:31:54] ▶
So clearly wasn't that.
[1:31:55 - 1:31:56] ▶
Dude, with like all of this stuff that's been happening lately with the new cycle and
[1:31:58 - 1:32:03] ▶
all the crazy things that have gone on in the last six months, like from Trump almost
[1:32:03 - 1:32:08] ▶
getting killed on live TV.
[1:32:08 - 1:32:10] ▶
To like a week later, that story's completely dead.
[1:32:11 - 1:32:15] ▶
And then we have like the Olympics debacle.
[1:32:15 - 1:32:19] ▶
Then we have like the, the debate, the election and all this, the New Jersey drones.
[1:32:19 - 1:32:23] ▶
Like there's like so much stuff happening on top of the fact that people are more awake
[1:32:23 - 1:32:29] ▶
Of all the fuckery that's going on with like not only just the media trying to subvert stuff
[1:32:31 - 1:32:35] ▶
with advertisers, but with the government trying to subvert stuff like people more aware
[1:32:35 - 1:32:40] ▶
of the word, siop now than ever.
[1:32:40 - 1:32:41] ▶
I'm sure if you, I'm serving you to Google trend on that word, siop.
[1:32:41 - 1:32:44] ▶
It's probably a skyrocket.
[1:32:44 - 1:32:45] ▶
So like, I wonder if the government came out tomorrow and said, yes, we made a deal with
[1:32:47 - 1:32:54] ▶
these alien civilization and they're here.
[1:32:54 - 1:32:56] ▶
I wonder legitimately what percentage of people would believe that or just run the other
[1:32:57 - 1:33:02] ▶
This is such an important thing you're bringing up because already with the Jake Barber
[1:33:03 - 1:33:09] ▶
piece, the UFO world has cleaved off and is on another island of reality from mainstream
[1:33:09 - 1:33:16] ▶
media has no idea who Jake Barber is.
[1:33:16 - 1:33:18] ▶
Unfortunately, it sucks because it's such an important story.
[1:33:18 - 1:33:21] ▶
But like because it's a hard pill to swallow, we're talking about psionics, mind, matter,
[1:33:21 - 1:33:27] ▶
connection, you know, egg-shaped things showing up in our air.
[1:33:27 - 1:33:31] ▶
It's like, it's a lot to stomach all at once.
[1:33:31 - 1:33:34] ▶
And it breaks the brain of these normy legacy people who aren't down these rabbit holes
[1:33:34 - 1:33:39] ▶
that you and I are down because we've spoken to a lot of people.
[1:33:39 - 1:33:43] ▶
And so it's this really important ontological question where it's like people, we need disclosure,
[1:33:43 - 1:33:47] ▶
I'm like, if you walked into a hanger and were showing a UFO, you walked into the UFO.
[1:33:48 - 1:33:53] ▶
It wouldn't change your life at all.
[1:33:53 - 1:33:55] ▶
You'd have no idea what you were looking at.
[1:33:55 - 1:33:58] ▶
And it would be get all sorts of other questions that you'd have that wouldn't be answered
[1:33:58 - 1:34:02] ▶
upon walking into the UFO or whatever.
[1:34:02 - 1:34:05] ▶
So it's disclosure isn't some file that's going to come out where it's like this, this,
[1:34:05 - 1:34:10] ▶
these are, you know, facts or whatever.
[1:34:10 - 1:34:12] ▶
I do look, I do think if Trump or Tulsi or like one of these people with like, you know,
[1:34:12 - 1:34:17] ▶
serious, you know, credentials in the government, like cabinet level credentials or even from
[1:34:17 - 1:34:21] ▶
the past cabinet level credentials says there's a there there.
[1:34:21 - 1:34:25] ▶
I do think that's like a step function up as far as disclosure.
[1:34:25 - 1:34:28] ▶
Like that's, that's progress.
[1:34:28 - 1:34:30] ▶
But it's going to be this, it's, you're dealing with people's core belief systems.
[1:34:30 - 1:34:34] ▶
And it's going to be this sort of broken jagged process.
[1:34:35 - 1:34:39] ▶
It's not going to be this like overnight, like we have disclosure.
[1:34:39 - 1:34:42] ▶
Like people in our world are, you know, I don't know where you lie, but in a lot of my
[1:34:42 - 1:34:48] ▶
world or whatever, they're like, we've had disclosure, like so much has come out outside
[1:34:48 - 1:34:52] ▶
of 8K, you know, imagery with like the president standing next to a UFO.
[1:34:52 - 1:34:57] ▶
I think we've kind of given a lot.
[1:34:58 - 1:34:59] ▶
If they wanted to make it available, if they wanted to do disclosure, think about it.
[1:34:59 - 1:35:05] ▶
They're doing it the right way.
[1:35:05 - 1:35:07] ▶
No one's losing their mind.
[1:35:08 - 1:35:09] ▶
Religion is not burning to the ground.
[1:35:11 - 1:35:12] ▶
People aren't quitting their jobs and like, sure shooting, it's not turning into Mad Max
[1:35:12 - 1:35:16] ▶
Like they, they are doing it the right way.
[1:35:17 - 1:35:22] ▶
Although like kind of what I was alluding to is like with the distrust of media and government
[1:35:22 - 1:35:27] ▶
now and people being aware of the deception, the strategic deception that they are capable
[1:35:27 - 1:35:33] ▶
If the government was to say yes, there's aliens.
[1:35:34 - 1:35:36] ▶
We have a saucer, right?
[1:35:38 - 1:35:40] ▶
There would be a huge chunk of people who think automatically if they're saying that,
[1:35:40 - 1:35:46] ▶
the opposite must be true.
[1:35:46 - 1:35:48] ▶
And I understand that skepticism and I have a reflexive allergic reaction to the government
[1:35:50 - 1:35:56] ▶
telling me anything as well.
[1:35:56 - 1:35:57] ▶
And I would just say just because you think somebody has an ulterior motive, because a
[1:35:57 - 1:36:02] ▶
lot of people in the UFO world have an ulterior motive, doesn't mean everything they're
[1:36:02 - 1:36:07] ▶
Maybe they're doing some weird controlled opposition thing.
[1:36:09 - 1:36:12] ▶
Maybe they're doing something where they want to make money and inherit some equities
[1:36:12 - 1:36:15] ▶
outside of the government.
[1:36:15 - 1:36:16] ▶
Maybe they're like, they're, I can give you 50 million reasons as to why somebody would
[1:36:16 - 1:36:21] ▶
say some shit about UFOs and claim to come from an authoritative background that aren't
[1:36:21 - 1:36:26] ▶
That doesn't mean the facts they're saying are wrong.
[1:36:28 - 1:36:30] ▶
And I think a lot of these guys, I think the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the
[1:36:30 - 1:36:36] ▶
prima facia stories of a lot of these guys are just fully right.
[1:36:36 - 1:36:40] ▶
They're just correct.
[1:36:40 - 1:36:42] ▶
And people just can't stomach them.
[1:36:42 - 1:36:44] ▶
They can't, they're like, it's just breaks their brain.
[1:36:44 - 1:36:46] ▶
It breaks their priors.
[1:36:46 - 1:36:48] ▶
And yeah, it's tough.
[1:36:48 - 1:36:50] ▶
And it's, that's why you think mainstream media hasn't reported on Jake's story.
[1:36:50 - 1:36:53] ▶
I think they don't know how to process it.
[1:36:55 - 1:36:57] ▶
I think they have no idea how to, the computer, it like breaks their computer.
[1:36:57 - 1:37:01] ▶
I mean, do you, those guys are mind controlled.
[1:37:01 - 1:37:03] ▶
I mean, like in those guys, they don't money though.
[1:37:03 - 1:37:06] ▶
They want, that's true.
[1:37:06 - 1:37:07] ▶
They do want money, but they also, you know, have certain commercial interests and like
[1:37:07 - 1:37:12] ▶
are, you know, connected to like various, I mean, you're seeing what's happening with
[1:37:12 - 1:37:16] ▶
Mike, you know, Mike Benz is reporting on all this like USAID, like, you know, backchannel
[1:37:16 - 1:37:20] ▶
shit with like every legacy media.
[1:37:20 - 1:37:22] ▶
I am so shocked that YouTube's let that shit go.
[1:37:22 - 1:37:24] ▶
It's wild that they're letting it go.
[1:37:25 - 1:37:26] ▶
But I think we've crossed the Rubicon of sorts, but like, I hope so.
[1:37:26 - 1:37:29] ▶
We don't know who's making calls at these studios, but look at like COVID, like for a year.
[1:37:29 - 1:37:36] ▶
I mean, even in like, I think 2022, the New York Times published a steel manning of the,
[1:37:36 - 1:37:42] ▶
like, zoonotic origin of COVID.
[1:37:42 - 1:37:44] ▶
It's like, give it up guys.
[1:37:44 - 1:37:46] ▶
Like, you literally have to, it takes the probabilistic thinking of a child to realize
[1:37:48 - 1:37:53] ▶
their wet markets all over China.
[1:37:53 - 1:37:55] ▶
Why was it the one wet market?
[1:37:55 - 1:37:56] ▶
Six miles next to the Wu on Institute of Biology, which is studying spike proteins added
[1:37:57 - 1:38:04] ▶
on to like a basically modification of SARS and how they can create a pandemic.
[1:38:04 - 1:38:08] ▶
Like give me a break.
[1:38:08 - 1:38:09] ▶
Like there's an outbreak of chocolatey goodness in Hershey, Pennsylvania.
[1:38:09 - 1:38:12] ▶
And it just got so simple, right?
[1:38:14 - 1:38:18] ▶
But they don't, they're, they're overeducated.
[1:38:18 - 1:38:21] ▶
They've lost their instinct.
[1:38:21 - 1:38:22] ▶
They don't actually think about any media story, critically at all.
[1:38:22 - 1:38:26] ▶
They're, I hate to say, I come from this world.
[1:38:26 - 1:38:28] ▶
I went to Columbia and like, I know a lot of these people.
[1:38:28 - 1:38:30] ▶
They think I'm crazy now, whatever.
[1:38:31 - 1:38:33] ▶
But they don't actually do thinking around like, like they hear a story and they, they're,
[1:38:33 - 1:38:38] ▶
they, ideas are fashion statements.
[1:38:38 - 1:38:41] ▶
And they don't want to look bad at the water cooler, you know, at Conday Nost or whatever
[1:38:41 - 1:38:47] ▶
You know, they don't want to like, they, and they're snarky.
[1:38:49 - 1:38:51] ▶
And if you watch, you know, I used to end, I interned for, you know, the daily show
[1:38:51 - 1:38:54] ▶
And like, I thought they were, that's crazy.
[1:38:55 - 1:38:56] ▶
John Stewart was a total bulwark against neo conservatism back in the day.
[1:38:56 - 1:39:01] ▶
That was very healthy and like amazing.
[1:39:01 - 1:39:04] ▶
And now he's just out at, they're out of touch, man.
[1:39:04 - 1:39:06] ▶
And like, like you have, you know, these correspondence go out, these like, Maggar rallies and they
[1:39:06 - 1:39:10] ▶
just like make fun of them.
[1:39:10 - 1:39:12] ▶
And like they're snarky.
[1:39:12 - 1:39:13] ▶
And look, I was probably guilty of that.
[1:39:13 - 1:39:15] ▶
I was anti-Trump in 2016.
[1:39:15 - 1:39:17] ▶
And like, I, you know, I thought he was kind of crazy.
[1:39:17 - 1:39:19] ▶
You know, I was like these, these, these states don't understand, these red states don't
[1:39:20 - 1:39:24] ▶
understand what's good for them.
[1:39:24 - 1:39:25] ▶
Like, you know, and then you, am I now belief is like, the more like you go through, like
[1:39:25 - 1:39:32] ▶
the liberal arts, like Ivy League education, the more you lose touch with your real instincts
[1:39:32 - 1:39:37] ▶
about reality and your, your, your worldview and like mental models on things are actually
[1:39:37 - 1:39:42] ▶
You're like way off.
[1:39:43 - 1:39:44] ▶
And it's couched in this veneer of sophistry and of sophistication.
[1:39:44 - 1:39:49] ▶
And so it sounds really smart, but it's actually really stupid.
[1:39:49 - 1:39:52] ▶
I try, I try my hardest to be open-minded about things and look at things from multiple
[1:39:55 - 1:39:59] ▶
angles, but like every single big topic, like UFOs or agents, Graham Hancock's a big
[1:39:59 - 1:40:06] ▶
Yeah, he's like, he's like, he's like, no, no, they fucking love him.
[1:40:07 - 1:40:10] ▶
Well, it's either one or the other.
[1:40:10 - 1:40:12] ▶
It's so polarizing and the lack of open-mindedness and, and, and ability to form independent
[1:40:13 - 1:40:21] ▶
thoughts outside of the comment bubble.
[1:40:21 - 1:40:23] ▶
Yeah, no, it's, it's crazy.
[1:40:25 - 1:40:26] ▶
And it's, it's, it's an age old trope in history of this amateur gentleman, journeyer,
[1:40:26 - 1:40:33] ▶
who has correct instincts is outside of the priestly citadel of experts and then gets
[1:40:33 - 1:40:37] ▶
Heinrich Schlimen was this German businessman that was laughed at forever because he thought
[1:40:38 - 1:40:43] ▶
the ancient city of Troy, you know, in the Peloponnesian war written about by Homer and
[1:40:43 - 1:40:47] ▶
Thesidides was actually, you know, that wasn't mythology.
[1:40:47 - 1:40:50] ▶
Like that was actually a real place and then he goes out and he finds it in Anatolia
[1:40:50 - 1:40:53] ▶
in the 1870s and we have, now, tons of corroboration, that's now consensus.
[1:40:53 - 1:40:58] ▶
Luis Walter Alvarez thought that, you know, an asteroid impact took out the dinosaurs
[1:40:59 - 1:41:02] ▶
66 million years ago.
[1:41:02 - 1:41:04] ▶
And in their case, they're actually, we're extremely credentialed Luis Walter Alvarez.
[1:41:05 - 1:41:08] ▶
The father was, you know, in the Manhattan project very involved with Oppenheimer and so,
[1:41:08 - 1:41:13] ▶
but he was this like, you know, he was out of his domain, right?
[1:41:13 - 1:41:15] ▶
It was an archaeologist, but he was right, right?
[1:41:15 - 1:41:18] ▶
And now, now you have Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson, they're saying the same thing about
[1:41:18 - 1:41:22] ▶
younger drag impact, younger, dry ice impact.
[1:41:22 - 1:41:24] ▶
They're also pointing to mythology just like Heinrich von Schlimen did in the case of
[1:41:24 - 1:41:29] ▶
Plato and dates around Plato, but they also have tons of archaeological evidence, like great
[1:41:29 - 1:41:33] ▶
archaeological evidence that there was an air burst from the Torrid meteor stream around
[1:41:33 - 1:41:38] ▶
And they're just not being taken seriously.
[1:41:39 - 1:41:41] ▶
And my money's on them, my money's not on the citadel.
[1:41:41 - 1:41:44] ▶
So it's, yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's reflexive bad thinking.
[1:41:44 - 1:41:49] ▶
And at any, there's a great book by this guy, Sam Arbysman, it's called The Half Life
[1:41:49 - 1:41:54] ▶
And at any point in history, we were wrong about 50% of the like conventional wisdom at the
[1:41:56 - 1:42:04] ▶
Like, are roughly, right?
[1:42:05 - 1:42:06] ▶
We're probably wrong about 50% of what we know now.
[1:42:07 - 1:42:10] ▶
So if you are going around being this like Michael Schirmer style or Richard Dawkins style
[1:42:11 - 1:42:15] ▶
skeptic, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, like we know everything, you're, you're, you are being
[1:42:15 - 1:42:21] ▶
a historical, you're engaging in bad thinking unless you can point to some percentage of current
[1:42:21 - 1:42:26] ▶
knowledge that you think is wrong.
[1:42:26 - 1:42:28] ▶
You are a, you're like a member, an extension of the Borg.
[1:42:28 - 1:42:32] ▶
You're like, you're the thought police for the conventional wisdom.
[1:42:33 - 1:42:35] ▶
You're probably wrong.
[1:42:35 - 1:42:37] ▶
So yeah, I just, I like to systematically go through the anomalies because I think that
[1:42:37 - 1:42:43] ▶
there are tells on what the next scientific paradigms are.
[1:42:43 - 1:42:46] ▶
Like if you look at, you know, black body radiation was discovered by this German guy in the
[1:42:46 - 1:42:51] ▶
1860s, we couldn't, that was the, you know, the fact that that would create this ultraviolet
[1:42:51 - 1:42:56] ▶
It was this guy, Gustav Kirchoff.
[1:42:57 - 1:42:59] ▶
We couldn't understand that until Max Plank and the quantum revolution in the 1900s.
[1:42:59 - 1:43:04] ▶
The mercury, the, the orbit of mercury wasn't understood in the Newtonian context and
[1:43:04 - 1:43:09] ▶
we needed general relativity to explain it.
[1:43:09 - 1:43:11] ▶
So when you see an anomaly, like a UFO or like, you know, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,
[1:43:11 - 1:43:17] ▶
a, you know, Washington scab lands like, you know, impacts or whatever, you know, you
[1:43:17 - 1:43:21] ▶
might represent, you know, the, the young, the driest thing.
[1:43:21 - 1:43:24] ▶
You have to systematically look at the anomalies.
[1:43:24 - 1:43:26] ▶
You can't ignore them because they lead to new scientists.
[1:43:26 - 1:43:29] ▶
This is the scientific revolutions.
[1:43:29 - 1:43:31] ▶
One, I want Thomas Kuhn wrote about this in the structure of scientific revolutions.
[1:43:31 - 1:43:34] ▶
The anomalies bring in the new paradigm.
[1:43:34 - 1:43:36] ▶
So what I think you're doing and what I love to do is like, talk to people on the fringes
[1:43:37 - 1:43:42] ▶
and just because you're talking to them, doesn't mean you agree with everything they
[1:43:42 - 1:43:45] ▶
We have the benefit of talking to the people on the fringes and the people in the center
[1:43:47 - 1:43:50] ▶
of the academic institutions.
[1:43:50 - 1:43:51] ▶
Which they each want to, you know, some of them, the people in the academic institutions
[1:43:53 - 1:43:56] ▶
are, are in a bubble.
[1:43:56 - 1:43:58] ▶
They're not talking to people in the fringe every day.
[1:43:58 - 1:44:00] ▶
And same thing, most of the time with people on the fringes.
[1:44:01 - 1:44:02] ▶
I explained like the whole flint dibble Graham Hancock thing is like, I completely understand
[1:44:03 - 1:44:09] ▶
how flint dibble, who his dad named him flint because he's an archaeologist and his dad's
[1:44:09 - 1:44:14] ▶
probably an archaeologist.
[1:44:14 - 1:44:15] ▶
We spent his whole life studying archaeology, reading the boring books, doing the boring
[1:44:16 - 1:44:20] ▶
shit, traveling all over, digging through the mud and pulling stuff out his whole life.
[1:44:20 - 1:44:26] ▶
And nobody knows who the fuck you are.
[1:44:26 - 1:44:28] ▶
Then Graham Hancock comes along, writes some crazy fucking book.
[1:44:29 - 1:44:33] ▶
And becomes a super celebrity and makes tons of money going on Joe Rogan all the time.
[1:44:33 - 1:44:37] ▶
I'm going to be, I'm going to be super jealous and resentful of that guy too.
[1:44:37 - 1:44:42] ▶
And you're not going to go as far as flint dibble did.
[1:44:43 - 1:44:45] ▶
Look, make that very clear.
[1:44:46 - 1:44:47] ▶
I mean, some of the shit he did was really terrible in my opinion.
[1:44:48 - 1:44:50] ▶
And he was like lying about it.
[1:44:50 - 1:44:51] ▶
He was the certain slides were up on that Rogan episode that were just like raw.
[1:44:51 - 1:44:55] ▶
And not only that, but like, and this is a super unpopular opinion and I will get completely
[1:44:55 - 1:44:59] ▶
destroyed in the comments for saying this, but I think flint killed him on that debate.
[1:44:59 - 1:45:04] ▶
Without having the ability of being able to Monday morning quarterback and see, okay,
[1:45:06 - 1:45:11] ▶
he was wrong about a lot of stuff because he did do some dishonest things by like, he
[1:45:11 - 1:45:14] ▶
was very confident in saying things that were quite literally wrong.
[1:45:14 - 1:45:18] ▶
After people were able to go back and review the stuff and Graham was actually able to go
[1:45:18 - 1:45:21] ▶
back over the podcast and find out like, okay, like you're completely wrong about the
[1:45:21 - 1:45:25] ▶
number of ships or any of this other stuff that you were talking about.
[1:45:25 - 1:45:28] ▶
Like, but like I learned a fuckload from flint during that podcast.
[1:45:28 - 1:45:32] ▶
And he was able to fill in the gaps of stuff that Graham didn't really understand during
[1:45:33 - 1:45:35] ▶
I feel like, and I feel like even Rogan during that podcast was siding with flint.
[1:45:36 - 1:45:39] ▶
One thing's like, he was like, Graham, don't you think that looks like?
[1:45:40 - 1:45:42] ▶
No, it looks kind of natural to me.
[1:45:42 - 1:45:43] ▶
I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
[1:45:45 - 1:45:46] ▶
Anyways, that's neither here nor there.
[1:45:46 - 1:45:47] ▶
I, I think that like, I thought he did a great job.
[1:45:47 - 1:45:51] ▶
But what I don't like is how he went on Twitter afterwards and I'm like, oh, do you
[1:45:51 - 1:45:54] ▶
see how much I kicked Graham's ass during that podcast?
[1:45:54 - 1:45:56] ▶
Subtweeting every tweet that Graham did looking like a complete douchebag.
[1:45:56 - 1:46:00] ▶
But like, so I guess my point is like I understand, I understand how flint feels, the why he feels
[1:46:02 - 1:46:07] ▶
And why people in academia feel the way, um, the way flint feels and I see how there's sort
[1:46:10 - 1:46:15] ▶
of like a riff between these two groups and just like combine that with the way modern
[1:46:15 - 1:46:20] ▶
Like, podcasting is the number one form of information in the world now, right?
[1:46:21 - 1:46:26] ▶
And like people are more interested in the fringe stuff because it's exciting.
[1:46:26 - 1:46:29] ▶
And it's more sensational.
[1:46:30 - 1:46:31] ▶
And um, I think, you know, long way of putting it, but you know, academia academics get
[1:46:31 - 1:46:38] ▶
And it's created this sort of like this dichotomy, if you will.
[1:46:39 - 1:46:43] ▶
And, and, but I think there's value in it to your point with flint double where it's
[1:46:44 - 1:46:48] ▶
like you need to stress test the really bold, grand new ideas and theories.
[1:46:48 - 1:46:53] ▶
And, uh, yeah, I think science is a process.
[1:46:53 - 1:46:55] ▶
It's like, you know, you have skepticism and dogmatism and it's a sill and caribdice.
[1:46:55 - 1:46:59] ▶
And you want to, you want, you know, you want both.
[1:46:59 - 1:47:01] ▶
And I think having debates like that are really good.
[1:47:01 - 1:47:03] ▶
But I'm always partial or sympathetic to quote unquote, platforming the people with the
[1:47:03 - 1:47:10] ▶
bold, grand ideas where like some of the stuff might be wrong, semantically, but they're
[1:47:10 - 1:47:16] ▶
directionally correct on like in like a big way.
[1:47:16 - 1:47:19] ▶
That's exciting versus these guys that are just defending the modern paradigm because
[1:47:19 - 1:47:23] ▶
I don't think that gets us anywhere like it.
[1:47:23 - 1:47:25] ▶
Like Darwin is like a locally useful theory.
[1:47:26 - 1:47:28] ▶
Like I don't like, I wouldn't, I don't think like Darwin's like fake.
[1:47:28 - 1:47:31] ▶
It's a theory and I think there are.
[1:47:32 - 1:47:33] ▶
I think gravity is also a theory.
[1:47:33 - 1:47:34] ▶
Gravity is also a theory totally.
[1:47:34 - 1:47:35] ▶
And, but I think it's also useful and a scientific, you know, I don't, I wouldn't like
[1:47:35 - 1:47:40] ▶
throw it out at all.
[1:47:40 - 1:47:41] ▶
Like these things are like extremely useful.
[1:47:41 - 1:47:43] ▶
Gravity is a great example because there are like many anomalies with it both on a
[1:47:43 - 1:47:47] ▶
macroscopic, you know, level with dark matter in on a microscopic level, you know, with,
[1:47:47 - 1:47:51] ▶
you know, it's irreconcilable with the other, you know, forces on a quantum level.
[1:47:51 - 1:47:57] ▶
And, you know, electrons don't exhibit gravity, you know, in the same, in the same way, you
[1:47:57 - 1:48:01] ▶
know, you know, super wild objects.
[1:48:01 - 1:48:03] ▶
So, yeah, I don't know.
[1:48:06 - 1:48:08] ▶
I think I'm always partial to let's like systematically talk to the people with the bold
[1:48:08 - 1:48:13] ▶
theories and then stress test and come at them and try to, you know, a, a, a, a, negate
[1:48:13 - 1:48:21] ▶
any parts of their thinking that are kind of flimsy, right?
[1:48:21 - 1:48:25] ▶
But like, you know, really take seriously their, their ideas, especially when they're
[1:48:25 - 1:48:29] ▶
driven, I think the difference between Dibble and Graham Hancock is like, one is driven
[1:48:29 - 1:48:33] ▶
more by intuition and this like life purpose mission thing.
[1:48:33 - 1:48:37] ▶
And in our modern day, that scene is inherently BS or something, whereas the other person's
[1:48:37 - 1:48:44] ▶
like, like came up through the system.
[1:48:44 - 1:48:46] ▶
And like, that's just seen as more valid.
[1:48:47 - 1:48:49] ▶
And I would say if you're like, you feel like her medically called to a thing, you're
[1:48:49 - 1:48:52] ▶
going to be extremely motivated.
[1:48:52 - 1:48:54] ▶
You're going to find out all sorts of stuff.
[1:48:54 - 1:48:55] ▶
And he had, I mean, we would not be talking about go Beckley Teppey if it weren't for Graham
[1:48:55 - 1:48:59] ▶
And so we, the conventional wisdom on like how old civilization is would be the, you
[1:49:00 - 1:49:06] ▶
know, classic Mesopotamia was the cradle of civilization.
[1:49:06 - 1:49:09] ▶
So like, who's, who's had more of an impact just based on now?
[1:49:09 - 1:49:12] ▶
And Scram Hancock even Flint said when he was in here, he goes Graham inspired a lot
[1:49:13 - 1:49:17] ▶
of people that I know that are now academic archaeologists.
[1:49:17 - 1:49:19] ▶
And they devoted their career to this stuff.
[1:49:19 - 1:49:21] ▶
So, you know, totally.
[1:49:21 - 1:49:24] ▶
So yeah, again, and I don't even know, like, I don't even know what the actual objective
[1:49:24 - 1:49:29] ▶
was of that debate other than to like, disprove Graham's ancient civilization idea.
[1:49:29 - 1:49:34] ▶
Debates like this are tough.
[1:49:34 - 1:49:36] ▶
Because like, often it's like, like I did, I did like this informal debate with like Michael
[1:49:37 - 1:49:42] ▶
And like, he was like, he debated who Michael Sharmer?
[1:49:44 - 1:49:46] ▶
Did Michael Sharmer and who?
[1:49:46 - 1:49:47] ▶
No, I was just me and him.
[1:49:47 - 1:49:49] ▶
Oh no, but I saw one on your channel with, oh no, no, that was Mick West and Maryfaw
[1:49:49 - 1:49:53] ▶
And that was, that was a tough one too, where it's just you have the skeptics who I think
[1:49:54 - 1:49:59] ▶
do provide this service.
[1:49:59 - 1:50:00] ▶
And I even came out thinking, okay, like Mick actually, you know, has some interesting
[1:50:00 - 1:50:04] ▶
debunks in these certain areas.
[1:50:04 - 1:50:06] ▶
I'm going to like hold certain, some of these videos in lower probability.
[1:50:06 - 1:50:09] ▶
Like actually one of my takeaways is like video evidence isn't the kind of Archimedes
[1:50:09 - 1:50:13] ▶
lever for disclosure in general.
[1:50:13 - 1:50:15] ▶
Like it's not the thing you want to hinge your belief on at all.
[1:50:15 - 1:50:17] ▶
Because like they're all kind of murky and like not great.
[1:50:18 - 1:50:21] ▶
Although I think maybe on the margins, Merrick won the debate.
[1:50:21 - 1:50:23] ▶
But yeah, I think the classic thing with like skeptic versus pro when it comes to these
[1:50:23 - 1:50:30] ▶
really kind of hard to answer questions is like the pro people have all these reasons
[1:50:30 - 1:50:35] ▶
as to like why, you know, it's anomalous.
[1:50:35 - 1:50:38] ▶
And then the anti people, they just, they sit on these kind of like, oh, it's a law of
[1:50:38 - 1:50:42] ▶
large numbers, or it's Occam's razor, or it's that, you know, it's like these like
[1:50:42 - 1:50:45] ▶
rules of thumb that like are just, it's like kind of lame and like provocative.
[1:50:45 - 1:50:50] ▶
And like you're not actually looking at the data.
[1:50:50 - 1:50:53] ▶
Like finally, I think Midwest has read UFOs and nukes by Robert Hastings because it's
[1:50:53 - 1:51:00] ▶
such an important data set when it comes to UFOs.
[1:51:00 - 1:51:02] ▶
But you can't say anything.
[1:51:02 - 1:51:05] ▶
There's not any can say because he gets like, how are you going to go at these?
[1:51:05 - 1:51:08] ▶
You can't go at their credentials.
[1:51:08 - 1:51:09] ▶
They call them liars.
[1:51:10 - 1:51:11] ▶
Like they're on the PRP program.
[1:51:11 - 1:51:12] ▶
So like you end up with this, this like two trains passing in the night in the debates
[1:51:14 - 1:51:18] ▶
where it's like one side has a data set.
[1:51:18 - 1:51:20] ▶
And the other side just won't agree that the data set is legitimate.
[1:51:20 - 1:51:23] ▶
They're just like it's survivorship bias.
[1:51:23 - 1:51:25] ▶
It's file drawer issues.
[1:51:25 - 1:51:27] ▶
You're a grifter or whatever.
[1:51:28 - 1:51:29] ▶
But like look at the data.
[1:51:29 - 1:51:30] ▶
Like I've met a lot of these guys who've seen stuff at nuclear sites.
[1:51:32 - 1:51:34] ▶
And it's like some of them have maintained Q clearances for years after they've seen
[1:51:34 - 1:51:38] ▶
And then at that point, it's like, I don't know what to tell you.
[1:51:39 - 1:51:41] ▶
If you're not going to like believe, you know, if you're not going to like read the
[1:51:41 - 1:51:44] ▶
book, which is a 580 page book, extremely dry and it's almost boring because it's so
[1:51:44 - 1:51:52] ▶
rigorous and good and meticulously done.
[1:51:52 - 1:51:54] ▶
Like Robert Hastings has like an identity memory.
[1:51:54 - 1:51:57] ▶
And so like you're either going to read the book and like engage with it or you're not.
[1:51:57 - 1:52:01] ▶
And if you're not, then like I don't know what the debate is about.
[1:52:01 - 1:52:03] ▶
What do you make of Elon not being impressed or not being interested in this stuff?
[1:52:05 - 1:52:08] ▶
I find it really interesting.
[1:52:08 - 1:52:11] ▶
You know, Starlink is just like an optical group of satellites.
[1:52:11 - 1:52:16] ▶
And it's the biggest optical group.
[1:52:16 - 1:52:19] ▶
But and then obviously the GDRF community.
[1:52:19 - 1:52:21] ▶
How do you see in like the videos of all the satellites that we have surrounding the
[1:52:21 - 1:52:24] ▶
Especially when Starlink is just blowing it out of the water.
[1:52:27 - 1:52:28] ▶
I mean, it's everywhere.
[1:52:28 - 1:52:29] ▶
And they have, I think it's Star Shield is like the dual use kind of, you know, optical
[1:52:29 - 1:52:33] ▶
So you hear that these things that UFOs are like picked up by like other sensor modalities.
[1:52:35 - 1:52:40] ▶
I don't know on Elon.
[1:52:40 - 1:52:41] ▶
I like look in the world in which UFOs exist.
[1:52:41 - 1:52:45] ▶
I would have to think he's got to know some stuff, you know, like I just, so I don't
[1:52:45 - 1:52:49] ▶
know if he's playing.
[1:52:49 - 1:52:50] ▶
Especially if these rocket guys like Tim are fucking dedicating their like their lives to
[1:52:50 - 1:52:54] ▶
And they have any overlap.
[1:52:56 - 1:52:57] ▶
The interesting thing I thought on Elon is he kind of toothed that he walked back a couple
[1:52:58 - 1:53:01] ▶
Last couple of months, somebody said, talk, mentioned David grushed him and said like,
[1:53:02 - 1:53:06] ▶
you know, maybe we're hiding all the secret tech.
[1:53:06 - 1:53:08] ▶
And he said, well, if we are hiding secret tech, I would hope that that would, you know,
[1:53:08 - 1:53:11] ▶
And so that was a change in tune.
[1:53:12 - 1:53:14] ▶
That wasn't this like, you know, joke, oh, I'm an alien or like, I would know like it's,
[1:53:14 - 1:53:18] ▶
you know, we don't have high resolution imagery.
[1:53:18 - 1:53:19] ▶
Like he kind of walked that back in that, in that, you know, interview question.
[1:53:19 - 1:53:23] ▶
And then the second thing he said, I think Tucker asked him about UFOs and he said, I think
[1:53:24 - 1:53:29] ▶
it's deep black American programs.
[1:53:29 - 1:53:31] ▶
At that point, you're kind of backing yourself into a corner where it's really interesting.
[1:53:32 - 1:53:36] ▶
Like what are you saying, man?
[1:53:36 - 1:53:37] ▶
Are you saying that we have deep black American programs that look like they're breaking
[1:53:37 - 1:53:41] ▶
So like they break conservation momentum.
[1:53:42 - 1:53:44] ▶
They fly mock, you know, 10 and then they stop on a dime.
[1:53:44 - 1:53:47] ▶
And then they, you know, make right angle turns.
[1:53:48 - 1:53:50] ▶
And then they go from, you know, right above the water to like above 80,000 feet, like
[1:53:51 - 1:53:55] ▶
David Fraber saying.
[1:53:55 - 1:53:56] ▶
And, you know, looks like they're, you know, not using chemical combustion.
[1:53:56 - 1:54:00] ▶
Because if you are, then you're saying we have physics that's in deep black compartments
[1:54:00 - 1:54:04] ▶
that, you know, well surpass what we're doing with chemical combustion when it comes to
[1:54:04 - 1:54:09] ▶
starlink where you have these, you know, I don't know, 33, 36 Raptor engines and it's all
[1:54:09 - 1:54:13] ▶
just mass ejection and it's all just, you know, Newton's laws.
[1:54:13 - 1:54:17] ▶
And so it's, you're kind of backing yourself into a corner where it's like we either have
[1:54:18 - 1:54:21] ▶
secret physics or you're, because you're saying the stuff is real in that interview.
[1:54:21 - 1:54:26] ▶
You're saying the stuff is real or maybe there's, you could hang on like, um,
[1:54:26 - 1:54:30] ▶
that we have some, you know, really good like radar spoofing, you know, and like that
[1:54:30 - 1:54:34] ▶
would be your, you know, or flee or spoofing or whatever.
[1:54:34 - 1:54:37] ▶
You'd have, you know, some version of that.
[1:54:37 - 1:54:39] ▶
Maybe you could do holograms and optical spoofing.
[1:54:39 - 1:54:41] ▶
I don't know what he would say, but it's weird.
[1:54:41 - 1:54:43] ▶
It's such a mind-fuck because I think if I can think of anyone who'd be more interested
[1:54:43 - 1:54:46] ▶
who should be interested in stuff, I would think of him.
[1:54:46 - 1:54:48] ▶
It's a, it's a strange, it feels like, you know, just like there's like dark matter
[1:54:50 - 1:54:53] ▶
It's like, what's the dark matter there?
[1:54:54 - 1:54:55] ▶
Like, like, like, like, we can't detect something going on there and I don't know what it
[1:54:55 - 1:54:59] ▶
Uh, it's so true, man.
[1:55:00 - 1:55:02] ▶
We're back from our PD break.
[1:55:08 - 1:55:09] ▶
The Elon stuff is crazy.
[1:55:11 - 1:55:13] ▶
So I wanted, I did want to ask you, um, how did you find this guy, Jake Barber and, I
[1:55:13 - 1:55:19] ▶
don't even know where to start with this guy.
[1:55:19 - 1:55:24] ▶
Can you explain how you met him and then how, like, what happened with him and where
[1:55:24 - 1:55:29] ▶
he came from, like his story?
[1:55:29 - 1:55:31] ▶
So he was originally, like a red team guy who was, well, he was on the program.
[1:55:32 - 1:55:37] ▶
What does that mean?
[1:55:37 - 1:55:38] ▶
A red, um, that means he was like meant to infiltrate like, like adversary groups and stuff.
[1:55:38 - 1:55:47] ▶
And so like, he, and he was, you know, it's basically like security for the program.
[1:55:47 - 1:55:51] ▶
So he was part of the crash retrieval program.
[1:55:51 - 1:55:54] ▶
He was pipeline through Air Force combat control, which is a special, uh, the Air Force
[1:55:54 - 1:55:59] ▶
version of special forces.
[1:55:59 - 1:56:00] ▶
He didn't become a Air Force special forces.
[1:56:00 - 1:56:03] ▶
At that point, he became kind of sheep dipped.
[1:56:03 - 1:56:05] ▶
If you know that term and like intel circles or whatever, like a race to like, he became
[1:56:05 - 1:56:09] ▶
like, you know, director of operations for a helicopter company and, you know, he, that
[1:56:09 - 1:56:16] ▶
was basically his title.
[1:56:16 - 1:56:17] ▶
Um, but he was working with these, you know, prime contractors.
[1:56:18 - 1:56:21] ▶
He might be able to guess who they are.
[1:56:21 - 1:56:22] ▶
He doesn't reveal who they are exactly.
[1:56:22 - 1:56:24] ▶
But he, so he says he was working with the secret aerospace contract, aerospace contractors,
[1:56:24 - 1:56:28] ▶
And I would imagine he's talking about companies that are are like, or similar to Batel
[1:56:29 - 1:56:33] ▶
or any of these other ones, like Lockheed or something like that.
[1:56:33 - 1:56:37] ▶
You guess he didn't, he didn't say that.
[1:56:39 - 1:56:40] ▶
He said, he said, if you tried to guess to, you'd probably get them right on your first
[1:56:40 - 1:56:44] ▶
So I'm, I've got those two right.
[1:56:45 - 1:56:46] ▶
Um, and so he's doing retrieval operations for them.
[1:56:47 - 1:56:50] ▶
And then on behalf of his employer, he goes to red team Stephen Greer.
[1:56:50 - 1:56:55] ▶
The Stephen Greer was the, we were just talking about this.
[1:56:55 - 1:56:58] ▶
He was like the go to guy for like any whistleblower in the government.
[1:56:58 - 1:57:02] ▶
Like he was the got the disclosure project was for the last 20 years.
[1:57:02 - 1:57:05] ▶
So he was trying to subvert Stephen Greer's whistleblower.
[1:57:05 - 1:57:07] ▶
He was trying to subvert and then 2023, um, Stephen Greer held his like disclosure, you
[1:57:07 - 1:57:12] ▶
know, uh, Congress thing or whatever.
[1:57:12 - 1:57:16] ▶
And he had done a version of this two decades prior in 2001, I think.
[1:57:16 - 1:57:20] ▶
And it was with a lot of really impressive, amazing whistleblowers.
[1:57:20 - 1:57:23] ▶
And it, unfortunately, it's kind of couched under the, the, the veneer of Stephen Greer
[1:57:23 - 1:57:28] ▶
who has, you know, certain issues.
[1:57:28 - 1:57:29] ▶
Personnel everybody.
[1:57:30 - 1:57:31] ▶
I mean, every single respectable person in the UFO world, um, they all detest Stephen
[1:57:31 - 1:57:37] ▶
I mean, I can, I can, I can, I can imagine why.
[1:57:41 - 1:57:42] ▶
And he kind of like, like solid reason why they don't like him.
[1:57:43 - 1:57:46] ▶
I don't know the guy personally.
[1:57:46 - 1:57:47] ▶
And I've been trying to interview him for like a year through various go between.
[1:57:47 - 1:57:51] ▶
And it's, I've gotten a lot of like weird respect, like ego and responses.
[1:57:51 - 1:57:54] ▶
And I don't know, I don't know what the deal is.
[1:57:54 - 1:57:56] ▶
So for anybody watching, like, oh, thanks, man, appreciate it.
[1:57:57 - 1:58:00] ▶
Oh, that'd be awesome.
[1:58:00 - 1:58:01] ▶
Um, I'll trade you for a grush.
[1:58:02 - 1:58:04] ▶
That's not a fair trade, bro.
[1:58:04 - 1:58:08] ▶
I need somebody else.
[1:58:08 - 1:58:10] ▶
Um, so we're trading them these UFO people like Pokemon cards.
[1:58:13 - 1:58:18] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:58:18 - 1:58:19] ▶
It's yeah, degrir is like in the Pokemon.
[1:58:21 - 1:58:23] ▶
He's like a, don't say it.
[1:58:24 - 1:58:26] ▶
I don't, I'm not, I know like there's collectibles.
[1:58:27 - 1:58:30] ▶
You got to catch a mall.
[1:58:30 - 1:58:31] ▶
What, what's one would career be?
[1:58:32 - 1:58:33] ▶
Would he be the Charizard or what?
[1:58:33 - 1:58:34] ▶
Maybe might be Charizard.
[1:58:34 - 1:58:35] ▶
What's the big one that would puff out all that stinky gas?
[1:58:37 - 1:58:40] ▶
What's the most, what's the most valuable Pokemon?
[1:58:40 - 1:58:43] ▶
It's mew and no, mew too.
[1:58:45 - 1:58:46] ▶
No, mew is even more valuable than mew too.
[1:58:46 - 1:58:49] ▶
Mew too and then mew is like the baby mew too, I think.
[1:58:49 - 1:58:52] ▶
If you're collecting these guys, you got to have,
[1:58:55 - 1:58:57] ▶
you got to have a grue on your belt.
[1:58:57 - 1:58:59] ▶
Like you explain that to me, right?
[1:59:00 - 1:59:01] ▶
Okay, he's one of the most legendary like OG UFO people.
[1:59:01 - 1:59:06] ▶
You said he was like in the 90s, he was the only guy.
[1:59:06 - 1:59:08] ▶
He was like the only guy.
[1:59:08 - 1:59:10] ▶
I mean, that's not, that's actually an important thing to correct.
[1:59:10 - 1:59:14] ▶
He was the only very public facing guy
[1:59:14 - 1:59:16] ▶
and that's why he became who he is now.
[1:59:16 - 1:59:19] ▶
But I think he took a lot of his stuff
[1:59:19 - 1:59:21] ▶
from a guy named Bill Hamilton, William Hamilton,
[1:59:21 - 1:59:23] ▶
who would write about these deep underground military bases,
[1:59:23 - 1:59:26] ▶
And there was a lot of actually hardheaded research
[1:59:28 - 1:59:30] ▶
going on at the time and he kind of shorted up
[1:59:30 - 1:59:32] ▶
and made it this more public thing.
[1:59:32 - 1:59:34] ▶
It's an interesting story because I don't quite
[1:59:34 - 1:59:36] ▶
understand how he went from, he was a physician
[1:59:36 - 1:59:38] ▶
and he just says he was an ER doctor.
[1:59:38 - 1:59:40] ▶
He was an ER doctor and then he got super into UFOs.
[1:59:40 - 1:59:42] ▶
He said during one of his CE5 things,
[1:59:42 - 1:59:45] ▶
there was an Air Force spook or something there
[1:59:45 - 1:59:48] ▶
and saw the stuff he was doing and told the CIA guy,
[1:59:48 - 1:59:52] ▶
the head of the CIA, who then wanted to go to dinner with him.
[1:59:52 - 1:59:56] ▶
Yeah, it's super interesting.
[1:59:56 - 1:59:57] ▶
I mean, and again, I believe the Jake Barber account
[1:59:57 - 2:00:01] ▶
and like it kind of comports with that
[2:00:01 - 2:00:02] ▶
where it involves like trying to call stuff in,
[2:00:02 - 2:00:05] ▶
which is, so at that time you have this guy,
[2:00:05 - 2:00:08] ▶
Albert Stubblebine, who also has connections
[2:00:08 - 2:00:11] ▶
with remote viewing at the time.
[2:00:11 - 2:00:12] ▶
And John Alexander, who's this long time kind of UFO
[2:00:12 - 2:00:16] ▶
historian, but he also debunks certain things
[2:00:16 - 2:00:19] ▶
and he can clearly as a deep government ties,
[2:00:19 - 2:00:21] ▶
also close to, with blood so.
[2:00:21 - 2:00:23] ▶
And inserts himself in like all sorts of interesting,
[2:00:23 - 2:00:26] ▶
like John Hutchinson was this guy who would claim
[2:00:26 - 2:00:28] ▶
to like have mind matter effects with like
[2:00:28 - 2:00:31] ▶
these like metallic instruments around him
[2:00:31 - 2:00:33] ▶
and California and John Alexander shows up there.
[2:00:33 - 2:00:36] ▶
John Alexander is this very interesting figure
[2:00:36 - 2:00:38] ▶
in UFO world where he just pops in like, you know,
[2:00:38 - 2:00:41] ▶
at very opportune times.
[2:00:41 - 2:00:43] ▶
So Stubblebine career claims he offered him $2 billion
[2:00:43 - 2:00:47] ▶
to participate in the, like a CFO or,
[2:00:47 - 2:00:51] ▶
oh, I thought the, I thought it was like,
[2:00:51 - 2:00:53] ▶
joint come join our UFO program or something.
[2:00:53 - 2:00:55] ▶
It was okay, interesting.
[2:00:55 - 2:00:56] ▶
He explained it to me like it was part of the
[2:00:56 - 2:00:58] ▶
offered him $2 billion to basically be a part of their
[2:00:58 - 2:01:02] ▶
building the public narrative or something.
[2:01:02 - 2:01:04] ▶
Okay, interesting, interesting.
[2:01:04 - 2:01:06] ▶
Well, that, yeah, it sounds like BS.
[2:01:06 - 2:01:08] ▶
I mean, like I actually, I think there's an email
[2:01:09 - 2:01:12] ▶
showing that maybe, but I, but I,
[2:01:12 - 2:01:15] ▶
I don't think the offer was real.
[2:01:15 - 2:01:16] ▶
I think Stubblebine's this weird character.
[2:01:16 - 2:01:19] ▶
He's, he's an army counter intel and he's also on record
[2:01:19 - 2:01:22] ▶
touting all sorts of other bizarre conspiracies.
[2:01:22 - 2:01:24] ▶
And he's one of these people you just Stubblebine is.
[2:01:24 - 2:01:26] ▶
And so it's one of these people you just don't know
[2:01:28 - 2:01:29] ▶
what to make of him.
[2:01:29 - 2:01:31] ▶
But they do insert themselves in Greer's life
[2:01:31 - 2:01:33] ▶
and then Greer becomes the de facto guy where if you're
[2:01:33 - 2:01:35] ▶
on the inside and you're working at Lockheed or Northrop
[2:01:35 - 2:01:39] ▶
or you know, your CIA contractor or whatever,
[2:01:39 - 2:01:41] ▶
and you see some shit and you want the public to know,
[2:01:41 - 2:01:43] ▶
you go to Greer and so the disclosure project archives
[2:01:43 - 2:01:48] ▶
are to this day probably like among the best UFO databases,
[2:01:48 - 2:01:53] ▶
treasure troves of pretty interesting contemporary
[2:01:53 - 2:01:56] ▶
And so I, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater
[2:01:56 - 2:01:59] ▶
as much as he's a very interesting kind of strange character.
[2:01:59 - 2:02:04] ▶
Yeah, there's some ego there.
[2:02:04 - 2:02:05] ▶
He's easy to dismiss for sure.
[2:02:05 - 2:02:07] ▶
Yeah, and there's definitely some mess I anecdot
[2:02:07 - 2:02:09] ▶
like it feels like he's, you know,
[2:02:09 - 2:02:11] ▶
so he's the guy who's bringing the dance like,
[2:02:11 - 2:02:13] ▶
come on dude, it's everybody, you know.
[2:02:13 - 2:02:15] ▶
Yeah, it is most people.
[2:02:15 - 2:02:16] ▶
Yeah, and this, you know, it's just like,
[2:02:16 - 2:02:18] ▶
there's also like a thing when somebody has,
[2:02:18 - 2:02:20] ▶
you know, has all the answers to everything.
[2:02:20 - 2:02:22] ▶
Yep, yep, you know, there's a weird thing
[2:02:22 - 2:02:24] ▶
that happens there too.
[2:02:24 - 2:02:26] ▶
What we're talking about, oh, we're talking about Jake Barber.
[2:02:28 - 2:02:29] ▶
So so Greer, Greer was hosting this thing
[2:02:29 - 2:02:33] ▶
where he had all these whistleblowers.
[2:02:33 - 2:02:34] ▶
He was providing an outlet for these whistleblowers to come out.
[2:02:34 - 2:02:37] ▶
And you were saying that Jake Barber went there
[2:02:37 - 2:02:41] ▶
to try to red team, red team meaning what?
[2:02:41 - 2:02:44] ▶
And trying to like, like, like bust one of these guys
[2:02:45 - 2:02:50] ▶
for blowing the whistle.
[2:02:50 - 2:02:51] ▶
But bust the whole organization,
[2:02:51 - 2:02:52] ▶
maybe infiltrate the organization and then become,
[2:02:52 - 2:02:55] ▶
you know, like the guy from Legacy who's feeding info
[2:02:55 - 2:02:58] ▶
back into Legacy UFO programs from like,
[2:02:58 - 2:03:01] ▶
you know, this important kind of vulnerability,
[2:03:01 - 2:03:03] ▶
threat vector, whatever.
[2:03:03 - 2:03:05] ▶
And so he's at this Congress or whatever, you know,
[2:03:05 - 2:03:08] ▶
his story is that Michael Herrera,
[2:03:08 - 2:03:11] ▶
do you know who that is?
[2:03:11 - 2:03:12] ▶
He's a Marine who was in the Philippines
[2:03:13 - 2:03:15] ▶
and he gets diverted with his unit of, I think,
[2:03:15 - 2:03:18] ▶
like eight or nine people to Indonesia.
[2:03:18 - 2:03:20] ▶
And Indonesia is a disaster zone.
[2:03:20 - 2:03:22] ▶
It's a due to this earthquake.
[2:03:22 - 2:03:23] ▶
There's a tsunami warning.
[2:03:23 - 2:03:24] ▶
And so everybody's evacuating the area and he's Marines.
[2:03:25 - 2:03:27] ▶
He and his Marines are apprehended.
[2:03:27 - 2:03:30] ▶
First, he sees an eight gone, like an octagon shaped craft
[2:03:30 - 2:03:35] ▶
hovering above the tree tops that he says is Vanta Black.
[2:03:36 - 2:03:39] ▶
And it's like, he calls it Blacker than Black
[2:03:39 - 2:03:41] ▶
and it's above the tree tops.
[2:03:41 - 2:03:42] ▶
And he starts to close in on that craft with his Marines
[2:03:42 - 2:03:47] ▶
because they're like, what the hell's going on here?
[2:03:47 - 2:03:49] ▶
And then they get apprehended by this elite paramilitary unit,
[2:03:49 - 2:03:52] ▶
which in like, I think it was 2009,
[2:03:52 - 2:03:54] ▶
like they had like bioscanners and like all sorts of gear
[2:03:54 - 2:03:57] ▶
you would never expect that they were clearly
[2:03:57 - 2:03:59] ▶
and they were very well trained,
[2:03:59 - 2:04:01] ▶
probably tier one special forces.
[2:04:01 - 2:04:03] ▶
And we're kind of running circles around these Marines
[2:04:03 - 2:04:06] ▶
saying stuff like, it's easy to get lost in the woods
[2:04:06 - 2:04:09] ▶
or it's easy to get lost in the jungle, you know?
[2:04:09 - 2:04:10] ▶
Like, well, you know,
[2:04:10 - 2:04:12] ▶
Did these guys say they were part of any,
[2:04:12 - 2:04:14] ▶
any specific branch of the military
[2:04:14 - 2:04:16] ▶
or were they, did they have any like,
[2:04:16 - 2:04:18] ▶
They had, it was completely nondescript
[2:04:19 - 2:04:21] ▶
but very advanced according to the Herrera.
[2:04:21 - 2:04:24] ▶
And they were loading these crates onto this flat,
[2:04:27 - 2:04:32] ▶
this truck, it was like an Ford F250 or something.
[2:04:32 - 2:04:36] ▶
And he was like, I don't know what the crates were,
[2:04:36 - 2:04:39] ▶
And so Barber, he's at this disclosure event
[2:04:40 - 2:04:43] ▶
where Herrera is giving this account.
[2:04:43 - 2:04:45] ▶
And Herrera also gets interviewed by Sean Ryan as well.
[2:04:45 - 2:04:47] ▶
And Barber's like, I could see the authenticity in Herrera
[2:04:47 - 2:04:52] ▶
and I, you know, what am I doing here, sort of thing.
[2:04:52 - 2:04:56] ▶
And there are other reasons I guess Barber felt like
[2:04:56 - 2:04:59] ▶
he was betrayed by his, you know,
[2:04:59 - 2:05:01] ▶
contractor in the past.
[2:05:01 - 2:05:04] ▶
And at that moment, he goes like, fuck this,
[2:05:04 - 2:05:07] ▶
I'm going to like red team, the red team,
[2:05:07 - 2:05:08] ▶
or I'm going to like red team, you know,
[2:05:08 - 2:05:10] ▶
the, I'm going to, I'm going to talk to these guys
[2:05:10 - 2:05:12] ▶
I'm going to side up with, you know,
[2:05:13 - 2:05:14] ▶
the Herrera's of the world and try to see if we can get,
[2:05:14 - 2:05:17] ▶
you know, some of these truths out.
[2:05:17 - 2:05:19] ▶
And so he back, he talks to Herrera and he says that the crates
[2:05:19 - 2:05:25] ▶
actually had people in them in Indonesia.
[2:05:25 - 2:05:28] ▶
And that these crates were bringing back these
[2:05:28 - 2:05:30] ▶
psionic assets that are used for the UFO program to attract
[2:05:30 - 2:05:35] ▶
And so it's this crazy story.
[2:05:36 - 2:05:39] ▶
Sionic assets meaning like 11 from Stranger Things.
[2:05:39 - 2:05:42] ▶
They're trying to find girls like, like, young children.
[2:05:42 - 2:05:45] ▶
I don't know, I don't know.
[2:05:45 - 2:05:46] ▶
I don't know what age, again, there are stories that like,
[2:05:47 - 2:05:50] ▶
really match Stranger Things as far as the ages of the people
[2:05:50 - 2:05:53] ▶
being recruited into the programs.
[2:05:53 - 2:05:54] ▶
And that gets into some weird, weird shit.
[2:05:54 - 2:05:57] ▶
And so I don't know what age these people were,
[2:05:57 - 2:06:00] ▶
because they were in these like metallic containers.
[2:06:00 - 2:06:03] ▶
And they were being evacuated from the area.
[2:06:03 - 2:06:05] ▶
I mean, even the fact that they're being kept in the metallic
[2:06:05 - 2:06:08] ▶
containers is weird, right?
[2:06:08 - 2:06:09] ▶
Like, as I said, there was, they were trying to get
[2:06:09 - 2:06:12] ▶
That's apparently this thing, apparently gay men and
[2:06:14 - 2:06:19] ▶
left people were left handed.
[2:06:20 - 2:06:22] ▶
And again, this is something I just,
[2:06:22 - 2:06:24] ▶
I have no idea if that's how true that is,
[2:06:24 - 2:06:26] ▶
but that's probably.
[2:06:26 - 2:06:27] ▶
I'm just trying to like think through the logistics of that.
[2:06:27 - 2:06:30] ▶
You're in an earthquake zone where there was a crazy
[2:06:30 - 2:06:32] ▶
People are like, they're, I don't know if they speak English,
[2:06:33 - 2:06:36] ▶
Or they have the other guy speaking Indonesian.
[2:06:37 - 2:06:39] ▶
But like, were they like, raise your hand if you're homosexual?
[2:06:40 - 2:06:43] ▶
Or like, are you left handed or right handed?
[2:06:43 - 2:06:44] ▶
Like, how are you doing this?
[2:06:44 - 2:06:45] ▶
Are you just bulk gathering these people
[2:06:45 - 2:06:48] ▶
and then figuring it out later?
[2:06:48 - 2:06:49] ▶
And it's, there's another question is like,
[2:06:50 - 2:06:52] ▶
were they engaging in operations?
[2:06:52 - 2:06:53] ▶
And did they have to evacuate because of the tsunami?
[2:06:53 - 2:06:56] ▶
Or were they taken, and this is the way
[2:06:56 - 2:06:58] ▶
Herrera presented on Chon Rai,
[2:06:58 - 2:06:59] ▶
in which is more nefarious, honestly,
[2:06:59 - 2:07:01] ▶
where it's like, are you taking advantage of the fact
[2:07:01 - 2:07:04] ▶
that there's a disaster zone and people could go missing?
[2:07:04 - 2:07:06] ▶
And taking them back with you, which is like weird.
[2:07:07 - 2:07:11] ▶
Of course they would be.
[2:07:11 - 2:07:12] ▶
Why wouldn't they be?
[2:07:12 - 2:07:13] ▶
Well, it's a question of like,
[2:07:13 - 2:07:14] ▶
were those people already like, willfully signed up
[2:07:14 - 2:07:17] ▶
They were attracting stuff in the jungle of Indonesia.
[2:07:18 - 2:07:20] ▶
That's why the, the black craft was there.
[2:07:20 - 2:07:23] ▶
I guess the black craft, I think was human.
[2:07:23 - 2:07:25] ▶
So, so I take that back, but like,
[2:07:25 - 2:07:27] ▶
maybe that was part of the operation.
[2:07:27 - 2:07:28] ▶
But like, so yeah, they were like, engaging
[2:07:28 - 2:07:30] ▶
in operations there.
[2:07:30 - 2:07:32] ▶
Or was, where you were just, the operation itself
[2:07:32 - 2:07:36] ▶
was to round up these people who were lost.
[2:07:36 - 2:07:38] ▶
And that's the question that I got.
[2:07:38 - 2:07:39] ▶
Was that, I mean, just from watching your podcast,
[2:07:39 - 2:07:42] ▶
the impression I got was that they saw there was a disaster
[2:07:42 - 2:07:44] ▶
there and thought this would be an opportunity
[2:07:44 - 2:07:46] ▶
to extract some people who can use it.
[2:07:46 - 2:07:48] ▶
I want to talk to Herrera,
[2:07:48 - 2:07:50] ▶
and I want to get to the bottom of it.
[2:07:50 - 2:07:52] ▶
He says that on the Sean Ryan podcast.
[2:07:52 - 2:07:54] ▶
But Barber says on my podcast,
[2:07:55 - 2:07:56] ▶
or they were engaging in operations
[2:07:56 - 2:07:58] ▶
and they had to get the hell out of Dodge
[2:07:58 - 2:07:59] ▶
because the tsunami was coming.
[2:07:59 - 2:08:00] ▶
Barber also seemed very off put about Sean Ryan
[2:08:01 - 2:08:04] ▶
and Herrera saying that they were just going there
[2:08:04 - 2:08:08] ▶
to exploit the disaster and get those people out.
[2:08:08 - 2:08:10] ▶
He seemed kind of like,
[2:08:10 - 2:08:11] ▶
He's like, I didn't like the Sean Ryan
[2:08:12 - 2:08:13] ▶
even used the word human trafficking.
[2:08:13 - 2:08:15] ▶
Right, right, right.
[2:08:15 - 2:08:16] ▶
He was offended by it almost.
[2:08:16 - 2:08:17] ▶
So yeah, I don't know.
[2:08:18 - 2:08:20] ▶
I don't know the kind of ground truth on that.
[2:08:20 - 2:08:22] ▶
But so, so he's saying that they're people,
[2:08:22 - 2:08:25] ▶
that these people are being taken from this place
[2:08:25 - 2:08:28] ▶
And my assessment, my guess is that like,
[2:08:29 - 2:08:31] ▶
these people are more in tune to nature.
[2:08:31 - 2:08:36] ▶
They're not around technology and civilization.
[2:08:36 - 2:08:38] ▶
They said that on your podcast.
[2:08:40 - 2:08:41] ▶
Maybe they have a different diet.
[2:08:41 - 2:08:43] ▶
They're not eating processed garbage.
[2:08:43 - 2:08:45] ▶
So that would automatically give them,
[2:08:45 - 2:08:47] ▶
let them be tapped into this muse or this consciousness
[2:08:47 - 2:08:51] ▶
Well, that's what they say in the US too.
[2:08:52 - 2:08:53] ▶
Like, you know, you have Dolce, you know, New Mexico,
[2:08:53 - 2:08:58] ▶
you have Tacoma, Washington, you have Skinwalker Ranch.
[2:08:58 - 2:09:00] ▶
All of these are ancient Native American lands.
[2:09:00 - 2:09:03] ▶
And apparently that's where a lot of this kind of weird
[2:09:03 - 2:09:05] ▶
Skinwalker Ranch we know is professionally,
[2:09:07 - 2:09:09] ▶
you know, as part of UFO research efforts
[2:09:09 - 2:09:11] ▶
investigated as part of OSAP from 2007 to 2012.
[2:09:11 - 2:09:15] ▶
And so I think both like the people are like,
[2:09:15 - 2:09:21] ▶
it's just like, you know, if you go to like,
[2:09:21 - 2:09:23] ▶
you know, most indigenous tribes, you just talk about people
[2:09:23 - 2:09:26] ▶
from the stars, you're not gonna freak them out.
[2:09:26 - 2:09:28] ▶
Like they're gonna be kind of familiar with those concepts.
[2:09:28 - 2:09:30] ▶
Yeah, we come down during our ceremonies, you know.
[2:09:30 - 2:09:33] ▶
It's both, I think that for the people,
[2:09:33 - 2:09:35] ▶
it's like they have less of like an allergic reaction
[2:09:35 - 2:09:37] ▶
because they haven't been indoctrinated
[2:09:37 - 2:09:39] ▶
with this materialist reductionist western paradigm
[2:09:39 - 2:09:42] ▶
where we even need the idea of disclosure.
[2:09:42 - 2:09:44] ▶
Like for them, it's like second nature or whatever.
[2:09:44 - 2:09:46] ▶
And then also the land itself,
[2:09:47 - 2:09:49] ▶
which then you're getting to like,
[2:09:49 - 2:09:50] ▶
trip your territory as to,
[2:09:50 - 2:09:53] ▶
is there a residue on the places themselves
[2:09:53 - 2:09:56] ▶
that where like more kind of strange stuff goes on?
[2:09:56 - 2:09:58] ▶
Like I would say, yes, like I think a lot of this stuff
[2:09:58 - 2:10:01] ▶
that goes on at Skinwalker Ranch is,
[2:10:01 - 2:10:03] ▶
genuinely not, you know, we need to explain it via science,
[2:10:03 - 2:10:07] ▶
It's definitely weird.
[2:10:08 - 2:10:09] ▶
Like I don't think that show, you know,
[2:10:09 - 2:10:12] ▶
the secrets of Skinwalker Ranch, yeah, it might be like, you know,
[2:10:12 - 2:10:15] ▶
the noise effects probably do it at the surface
[2:10:15 - 2:10:18] ▶
and you got that kind of history channel thing.
[2:10:18 - 2:10:20] ▶
But like, yeah, it's produced.
[2:10:20 - 2:10:22] ▶
But like, I don't think they're lying about a lot of that stuff.
[2:10:23 - 2:10:25] ▶
And if you, again, if you just investigate the, you know,
[2:10:25 - 2:10:28] ▶
first principles like what's happening there,
[2:10:28 - 2:10:31] ▶
So the cat immune relation thing though
[2:10:33 - 2:10:35] ▶
that they talk about on a Rajman is fascinating.
[2:10:35 - 2:10:39] ▶
Yeah, what's your take there?
[2:10:39 - 2:10:41] ▶
Oh, I mean, it just seems like a perfect distraction
[2:10:41 - 2:10:44] ▶
or just a siop, right?
[2:10:44 - 2:10:46] ▶
I mean, but it was all, well, it seemed like an unintended siop
[2:10:46 - 2:10:50] ▶
that worked perfect for them, right?
[2:10:50 - 2:10:51] ▶
Because I guess there was some sort of,
[2:10:51 - 2:10:53] ▶
they were trying to prospect for oil.
[2:10:53 - 2:10:56] ▶
I think it was, there was a company that was trying to find oil
[2:10:56 - 2:10:58] ▶
by detonating an underground nuclear bomb.
[2:10:58 - 2:11:00] ▶
And they were trying to test the local agriculture
[2:11:01 - 2:11:05] ▶
and wildlife to see how far the contamination went in the soil.
[2:11:05 - 2:11:10] ▶
So they were trying to find like,
[2:11:12 - 2:11:13] ▶
they were extracting the glands of these cows
[2:11:13 - 2:11:16] ▶
to see if they had been affected by this radiation or whatever,
[2:11:16 - 2:11:19] ▶
see if there was contamination.
[2:11:19 - 2:11:20] ▶
And that happened to be the same place
[2:11:21 - 2:11:24] ▶
that they were flying this crazy exotic stuff.
[2:11:24 - 2:11:26] ▶
And so the people were like, oh my God, we're seeing UFOs
[2:11:27 - 2:11:28] ▶
and these cows are looking like this.
[2:11:28 - 2:11:30] ▶
Like it must be, they must be them doing this.
[2:11:30 - 2:11:32] ▶
So it's like, now, okay, that's the perfect place
[2:11:32 - 2:11:35] ▶
to keep doing these test flights.
[2:11:35 - 2:11:36] ▶
That was super interesting to learn about that
[2:11:39 - 2:11:41] ▶
and to see how like, you know,
[2:11:41 - 2:11:43] ▶
just just like two operations collide
[2:11:43 - 2:11:45] ▶
and end up being the perfect fucking mind fuck
[2:11:45 - 2:11:49] ▶
for the public to like, make sure people don't know
[2:11:49 - 2:11:51] ▶
No, in that movie, it's super important to realize
[2:11:54 - 2:11:55] ▶
how sophisticated a lot of the siops can be.
[2:11:55 - 2:11:58] ▶
And this, like, you can, you know, write scripts
[2:11:58 - 2:12:02] ▶
and back rooms and like make everything kind of weep
[2:12:02 - 2:12:04] ▶
But like the A could, you know, be a data point,
[2:12:05 - 2:12:10] ▶
B could be a data point, they could be look completely
[2:12:10 - 2:12:13] ▶
uncorrelated, but like you're the source of both.
[2:12:13 - 2:12:16] ▶
Or, you know, and like that's definitely a thing
[2:12:16 - 2:12:18] ▶
you have to look out for in this world for sure.
[2:12:18 - 2:12:21] ▶
So going back to Barbara, he was saying that there was
[2:12:21 - 2:12:23] ▶
a secret place where they were trying to use these people
[2:12:23 - 2:12:26] ▶
that they captured and give them drugs and get them to
[2:12:26 - 2:12:31] ▶
yeah, summon these UFOs.
[2:12:32 - 2:12:34] ▶
Yeah, stress, inoculation and dissociation.
[2:12:34 - 2:12:38] ▶
And yeah, we're all about that.
[2:12:38 - 2:12:40] ▶
Like we're, yeah, and I think people who've had trauma
[2:12:40 - 2:12:43] ▶
in their past, I guess are predisposed.
[2:12:43 - 2:12:45] ▶
I mean, all of this seems a little great.
[2:12:45 - 2:12:47] ▶
They were saying it was dopamine and urgent drugs
[2:12:47 - 2:12:49] ▶
that they were giving them.
[2:12:49 - 2:12:50] ▶
Yeah, that might make sense.
[2:12:50 - 2:12:52] ▶
Yeah, I mean, again, this is not based
[2:12:53 - 2:12:56] ▶
on firsthand knowledge.
[2:12:56 - 2:12:57] ▶
Yeah, this is all super speculative.
[2:12:58 - 2:13:01] ▶
But I also, like, so I'm in the camp
[2:13:01 - 2:13:05] ▶
where I believe the summoning stuff is very real
[2:13:05 - 2:13:09] ▶
And I feel pretty like, you know, like I think Jake
[2:13:10 - 2:13:16] ▶
Barbara's story is like pretty beyond reproach actually
[2:13:16 - 2:13:18] ▶
on the like surface level details of it.
[2:13:18 - 2:13:20] ▶
And then where you mean by that, what do you mean
[2:13:20 - 2:13:22] ▶
is beyond repart, like you think it's super legit?
[2:13:22 - 2:13:24] ▶
I think it's super legit.
[2:13:24 - 2:13:25] ▶
Where I get worried about what might be an after effect
[2:13:27 - 2:13:32] ▶
is this idea of like summoning things into your purview.
[2:13:33 - 2:13:36] ▶
I think that stuff's really real.
[2:13:36 - 2:13:38] ▶
And I think it's dangerous.
[2:13:38 - 2:13:39] ▶
I don't think it's for the, you know,
[2:13:39 - 2:13:42] ▶
I think you have to have very pure intentions.
[2:13:42 - 2:13:44] ▶
And I think if you show up in certain places
[2:13:44 - 2:13:47] ▶
and you try to, you know, do these things,
[2:13:47 - 2:13:48] ▶
I think that's, it's very, it's very,
[2:13:48 - 2:13:50] ▶
it can end very badly for people.
[2:13:50 - 2:13:53] ▶
So, and I think it's the reason you have all this stuff
[2:13:53 - 2:13:56] ▶
it's can walk a ranch where like often it's guys
[2:13:56 - 2:13:58] ▶
with big egos or whatever,
[2:13:58 - 2:14:00] ▶
it's like they have the story of this like hell's angels
[2:14:00 - 2:14:02] ▶
chieftain who like, you know, goes there
[2:14:02 - 2:14:05] ▶
and he's like put into a catatonic state
[2:14:05 - 2:14:07] ▶
like on the mesa or whatever.
[2:14:07 - 2:14:08] ▶
And then he has to go to the hospital
[2:14:08 - 2:14:10] ▶
for three weeks after that.
[2:14:10 - 2:14:12] ▶
And so I think it's, I think it's kind of dangerous
[2:14:12 - 2:14:15] ▶
to do some of this stuff if you're not doing it safely
[2:14:15 - 2:14:19] ▶
and honestly with it, just pure intentions.
[2:14:19 - 2:14:21] ▶
I don't, you know, have you,
[2:14:23 - 2:14:25] ▶
you've had Danipusokon, right?
[2:14:25 - 2:14:27] ▶
So like, you remember the story with St. Francis of Assisi?
[2:14:28 - 2:14:33] ▶
No. So, okay. So he's this, you know,
[2:14:33 - 2:14:36] ▶
he's actually kind of grows up like kind of this popular guy
[2:14:36 - 2:14:38] ▶
and, you know, he's kind of, you know,
[2:14:38 - 2:14:41] ▶
life of the party kind of guy.
[2:14:41 - 2:14:42] ▶
And then, you know, he becomes a brother
[2:14:42 - 2:14:45] ▶
and he's, you know, in a monastery
[2:14:45 - 2:14:48] ▶
and he starts to become more religious
[2:14:48 - 2:14:50] ▶
and he's on Mount LeVern,
[2:14:50 - 2:14:51] ▶
he's hiking with his confidant brother Leo
[2:14:51 - 2:14:53] ▶
who records all the stuff that happens to him.
[2:14:53 - 2:14:55] ▶
And he basically has an encounter with an angel
[2:14:55 - 2:15:00] ▶
and the angel burns him.
[2:15:00 - 2:15:02] ▶
And basically, you know,
[2:15:02 - 2:15:04] ▶
I remember this now.
[2:15:04 - 2:15:05] ▶
It gives him, you know, what he calls the,
[2:15:05 - 2:15:06] ▶
he says, says it's like a vision of Christ.
[2:15:06 - 2:15:09] ▶
But if you actually go back to the original translation,
[2:15:09 - 2:15:11] ▶
which Pissolka did, it's a flaming torch.
[2:15:11 - 2:15:13] ▶
What language was it?
[2:15:14 - 2:15:15] ▶
I remember when I was in the year.
[2:15:15 - 2:15:16] ▶
No, it must have been it.
[2:15:17 - 2:15:18] ▶
Yeah, yeah, probably Latin.
[2:15:25 - 2:15:26] ▶
So, same Francis of Assisi was when, like in medieval time.
[2:15:27 - 2:15:30] ▶
13th century, I think.
[2:15:30 - 2:15:31] ▶
So, like the subplot of the whole thing
[2:15:34 - 2:15:37] ▶
with same Francis of Assisi is like,
[2:15:37 - 2:15:39] ▶
he has basically electromagnetic radiation damage
[2:15:39 - 2:15:42] ▶
and he calls it the stigma and he says it's a vision of Christ.
[2:15:42 - 2:15:45] ▶
But like, it's probably what you would say
[2:15:45 - 2:15:47] ▶
is just electromagnetic radiation now.
[2:15:47 - 2:15:50] ▶
And he dies from this stuff.
[2:15:50 - 2:15:51] ▶
And if you look at the files given to Gary Nolan
[2:15:52 - 2:15:54] ▶
on people who've had paranormal,
[2:15:54 - 2:15:57] ▶
you know, it basically encounters with UFOs
[2:15:57 - 2:15:58] ▶
and with alien beings,
[2:15:58 - 2:16:00] ▶
it's often electromagnetic damage.
[2:16:00 - 2:16:03] ▶
And ultraviolet burns.
[2:16:03 - 2:16:04] ▶
And you know, I think some of these truths
[2:16:04 - 2:16:07] ▶
have been disseminated through fiction
[2:16:07 - 2:16:09] ▶
if you watch close to counters of the third kind.
[2:16:09 - 2:16:11] ▶
The guy is a sunburn after he sees the UFO.
[2:16:11 - 2:16:12] ▶
And I think Steven Spielberg definitely has some spooky sources
[2:16:12 - 2:16:15] ▶
and he has across the years.
[2:16:15 - 2:16:17] ▶
And so, I think calling these things into your,
[2:16:17 - 2:16:21] ▶
I think there are two things that attract this stuff,
[2:16:21 - 2:16:23] ▶
nuclear and certain states of consciousness.
[2:16:23 - 2:16:27] ▶
And the latter is gonna give a lot of people,
[2:16:27 - 2:16:31] ▶
an allergic reaction if you're coming from kind of like a,
[2:16:31 - 2:16:34] ▶
you know, more Western materialist reductionist,
[2:16:34 - 2:16:36] ▶
you know, academia, you know,
[2:16:36 - 2:16:38] ▶
that's where you're coming from.
[2:16:38 - 2:16:40] ▶
But I do believe that's part of it.
[2:16:40 - 2:16:42] ▶
And calling these things into your purview
[2:16:42 - 2:16:45] ▶
can be very dangerous, all the files that Nolan looked at
[2:16:45 - 2:16:49] ▶
and all of what happens to, you know,
[2:16:49 - 2:16:51] ▶
St. Francis of Assisi.
[2:16:51 - 2:16:52] ▶
And I think as with all of this stuff,
[2:16:52 - 2:16:54] ▶
there's a left hand path and there's the right way to do it.
[2:16:54 - 2:16:56] ▶
And the left hand path is basically a cult stuff.
[2:16:56 - 2:16:59] ▶
It's like trying to summon stuff
[2:16:59 - 2:17:00] ▶
and you're gonna get burned.
[2:17:00 - 2:17:02] ▶
It's like, it's a typical every myth,
[2:17:02 - 2:17:05] ▶
whether it's Lord of the Rings, Faust, Prometheus,
[2:17:05 - 2:17:08] ▶
it always ends badly.
[2:17:08 - 2:17:09] ▶
We've seen this movie before.
[2:17:09 - 2:17:11] ▶
If you want the secret knowledge
[2:17:11 - 2:17:13] ▶
and you don't have the right, you know,
[2:17:13 - 2:17:14] ▶
pure intention in your heart, you're just gonna get burned.
[2:17:14 - 2:17:17] ▶
Because what you see will be an excavation
[2:17:17 - 2:17:20] ▶
of what's inside of you.
[2:17:20 - 2:17:21] ▶
So you're saying that first of all,
[2:17:30 - 2:17:33] ▶
when it comes to Gary Nolan,
[2:17:33 - 2:17:34] ▶
he was looking at people who,
[2:17:34 - 2:17:37] ▶
these people that he studied,
[2:17:37 - 2:17:39] ▶
people that got injured and or died.
[2:17:39 - 2:17:42] ▶
Right, after having radiation poisoning
[2:17:42 - 2:17:44] ▶
or something like this from these things.
[2:17:44 - 2:17:47] ▶
Those people, how were they getting in contact
[2:17:47 - 2:17:50] ▶
Were they summoning them?
[2:17:51 - 2:17:52] ▶
So that's a total black box.
[2:17:52 - 2:17:54] ▶
But I just think coming into contact with them,
[2:17:55 - 2:17:57] ▶
it's like, you know, the legend,
[2:17:57 - 2:17:59] ▶
I'm not saying the arc of the covenant is real,
[2:17:59 - 2:18:01] ▶
but this is a good analogy.
[2:18:01 - 2:18:02] ▶
It's like, you know, the holiest of holies,
[2:18:02 - 2:18:03] ▶
if you don't go in with a pure heart,
[2:18:03 - 2:18:05] ▶
it's gonna be bad for you.
[2:18:05 - 2:18:06] ▶
I think dealing, if you're dealing with this other world,
[2:18:06 - 2:18:09] ▶
it's gonna, you know, kind of see you from the inside now.
[2:18:11 - 2:18:16] ▶
And it's gonna be very bad for you if you,
[2:18:16 - 2:18:18] ▶
it's a classic myth.
[2:18:18 - 2:18:20] ▶
And I think it's not just myth, I think it's very real.
[2:18:20 - 2:18:23] ▶
I think we live inside of a cave basically.
[2:18:23 - 2:18:25] ▶
And that cave is our kind of perceptive epistemology.
[2:18:25 - 2:18:28] ▶
And if you wanna see something that's outside of the cave,
[2:18:28 - 2:18:30] ▶
you can ask for it and it can come.
[2:18:30 - 2:18:32] ▶
And you're gonna get, you know,
[2:18:32 - 2:18:35] ▶
hit like a load of bricks if you ask
[2:18:35 - 2:18:36] ▶
with the wrong intention.
[2:18:36 - 2:18:37] ▶
What you're describing sounds a lot like a psychedelic trip.
[2:18:40 - 2:18:43] ▶
It's the exact, it's very similar
[2:18:43 - 2:18:46] ▶
because if you go into a psychedelic trip
[2:18:46 - 2:18:50] ▶
and you have a lot of ego going in,
[2:18:50 - 2:18:52] ▶
you're gonna get smashed.
[2:18:52 - 2:18:54] ▶
It's gonna, and it's gonna excavate,
[2:18:54 - 2:18:56] ▶
but it's not necessarily bad for you.
[2:18:56 - 2:18:57] ▶
It'll excavate what's inside of you often.
[2:18:57 - 2:19:00] ▶
But it needs to be done in a way that like you can handle.
[2:19:00 - 2:19:03] ▶
And honestly, I don't believe in psych,
[2:19:03 - 2:19:04] ▶
that's why I don't believe in like,
[2:19:04 - 2:19:06] ▶
I believe in like veterans who are like on their last legs,
[2:19:06 - 2:19:09] ▶
who need to take like, I began.
[2:19:09 - 2:19:10] ▶
Or like, of course, like, you know,
[2:19:10 - 2:19:12] ▶
or like, you know, mushrooms or whatever.
[2:19:12 - 2:19:14] ▶
But like this, like, oh, let's just like,
[2:19:14 - 2:19:17] ▶
you know, will they nearly do this recreationally?
[2:19:17 - 2:19:19] ▶
That, I don't think that's gonna be good at all.
[2:19:19 - 2:19:21] ▶
The veil, we have, it's definitely not for every one.
[2:19:21 - 2:19:25] ▶
It's not, we have the veil for a reason.
[2:19:25 - 2:19:27] ▶
You don't wanna unveil everything all at once.
[2:19:27 - 2:19:29] ▶
And so I do believe that we have a very limited scope.
[2:19:29 - 2:19:32] ▶
We only see between 400 and 700 nanometers
[2:19:32 - 2:19:35] ▶
on the electromagnetic wave spectrum,
[2:19:35 - 2:19:36] ▶
you know, our decibel range that we hear is limited.
[2:19:36 - 2:19:39] ▶
Like, the idea that like,
[2:19:39 - 2:19:41] ▶
there's nothing outside of what we see is ridiculous.
[2:19:41 - 2:19:45] ▶
And then you have people like Donald Hoffman,
[2:19:45 - 2:19:46] ▶
cognitive psychologist, showing that what we see
[2:19:46 - 2:19:50] ▶
are basically like icons of reality.
[2:19:50 - 2:19:52] ▶
Like they're categorizations of reality.
[2:19:52 - 2:19:54] ▶
Like, you're not seeing electromagnetic wavelengths.
[2:19:54 - 2:19:57] ▶
You're not seeing the waves themselves.
[2:19:57 - 2:19:59] ▶
You are seeing this table, right?
[2:19:59 - 2:20:01] ▶
Because you need to instantly categorize things.
[2:20:01 - 2:20:03] ▶
So the idea that we are seeing ground reality is crazy.
[2:20:03 - 2:20:08] ▶
And then the idea that physics is the end of history
[2:20:08 - 2:20:10] ▶
Like our consciousness definitely plays a part in what we're seeing.
[2:20:11 - 2:20:14] ▶
You say you experience synchronisities all the time.
[2:20:14 - 2:20:16] ▶
You're basically admitting that your personal epistemology
[2:20:16 - 2:20:19] ▶
is out of step with the Western materialist dogma.
[2:20:19 - 2:20:23] ▶
You're admitting that and saying that.
[2:20:23 - 2:20:24] ▶
And maybe you're saying,
[2:20:24 - 2:20:25] ▶
I don't know, it could be like pattern matching
[2:20:25 - 2:20:27] ▶
of my mind or whatever.
[2:20:27 - 2:20:28] ▶
But if you like get down to it with most people,
[2:20:28 - 2:20:30] ▶
they're like, yeah, a bunch of shit happened to me.
[2:20:30 - 2:20:32] ▶
That's like beyond chance and probability.
[2:20:32 - 2:20:34] ▶
And there's probably something with your consciousness
[2:20:34 - 2:20:35] ▶
that affects the material world or whatever.
[2:20:35 - 2:20:37] ▶
So I think it's not beyond the pale to say,
[2:20:37 - 2:20:41] ▶
like if you want to experience something paranormal,
[2:20:41 - 2:20:43] ▶
If you like do certain things and doing that
[2:20:45 - 2:20:48] ▶
in a reckless way is very bad.
[2:20:49 - 2:20:50] ▶
And doing that honestly, it's the whole issue,
[2:20:51 - 2:20:54] ▶
I think with the UFO thing,
[2:20:54 - 2:20:55] ▶
like the whole context of this conversation
[2:20:55 - 2:20:59] ▶
is around weaponization of this stuff.
[2:20:59 - 2:21:02] ▶
And in certain cases, I always like my rallying cry is like,
[2:21:03 - 2:21:06] ▶
it's actually bad for national security
[2:21:06 - 2:21:08] ▶
because I want the powers that beat a lot more out.
[2:21:08 - 2:21:10] ▶
So that's like, I'll say that, right?
[2:21:10 - 2:21:12] ▶
It's bad for national security.
[2:21:12 - 2:21:13] ▶
If the left hand isn't talking to the right hand
[2:21:13 - 2:21:15] ▶
and like Russia and China have their own UFO programs
[2:21:15 - 2:21:17] ▶
and they're like beating us.
[2:21:17 - 2:21:18] ▶
But my motivation is not weaponizing these things.
[2:21:18 - 2:21:22] ▶
I just kind of want to like poke the bear a little
[2:21:22 - 2:21:24] ▶
so they like let more out.
[2:21:24 - 2:21:26] ▶
Because they are holding on to a lot of stuff.
[2:21:26 - 2:21:28] ▶
But the whole, the fact that all this whole conversation
[2:21:28 - 2:21:30] ▶
is couched in like, how can we build weapons out of the,
[2:21:30 - 2:21:34] ▶
like this like meta material that like is like mana from heaven
[2:21:34 - 2:21:38] ▶
is so perverse and fucked.
[2:21:38 - 2:21:40] ▶
And so like my whole goal, like to the extent
[2:21:41 - 2:21:43] ▶
that I ever do anything in a capitalist context
[2:21:43 - 2:21:45] ▶
with the UFOs stuff, it's, I want civil side infrastructure updates
[2:21:45 - 2:21:50] ▶
in the, our cities to make our lives better.
[2:21:50 - 2:21:54] ▶
And I want more meaning in the world
[2:21:54 - 2:21:56] ▶
in people's individual lives.
[2:21:56 - 2:21:57] ▶
And if I can do that and have top cover
[2:21:57 - 2:22:00] ▶
from national security people who are like,
[2:22:00 - 2:22:03] ▶
yeah, if you find something dual use,
[2:22:03 - 2:22:05] ▶
we'll take it to the back room and work on it.
[2:22:05 - 2:22:07] ▶
I'm cool with protecting the free world
[2:22:08 - 2:22:09] ▶
and making sure we're ahead of China and Russia.
[2:22:09 - 2:22:11] ▶
But the whole idea that like people's impetus into this topic,
[2:22:11 - 2:22:16] ▶
like the fact that they're into it is just like,
[2:22:16 - 2:22:18] ▶
let's weaponize this.
[2:22:18 - 2:22:19] ▶
Like immediately is so fucked.
[2:22:19 - 2:22:21] ▶
Like you don't know what you're dealing with.
[2:22:21 - 2:22:23] ▶
It's probably is angels.
[2:22:23 - 2:22:24] ▶
I mean, that's the whole reason that we have everything
[2:22:24 - 2:22:27] ▶
that we have is, I mean, the most absurd
[2:22:27 - 2:22:30] ▶
and mind blowing science and technology that we have
[2:22:30 - 2:22:32] ▶
was literally created in the context of war,
[2:22:32 - 2:22:35] ▶
like John Vaughnoiman, like you were saying,
[2:22:35 - 2:22:37] ▶
the brain power of that motherfucker.
[2:22:37 - 2:22:39] ▶
Was literally used and monopolized for war.
[2:22:40 - 2:22:43] ▶
Like I think it was him.
[2:22:43 - 2:22:45] ▶
Was, I think he was the one that calculated the exact elevation
[2:22:45 - 2:22:50] ▶
that the fat man and little boy, Nukes,
[2:22:50 - 2:22:52] ▶
needed to be to cause the most civilian casualties.
[2:22:52 - 2:22:54] ▶
Like he estimated the exact elevation they needed
[2:22:54 - 2:22:57] ▶
to detonate those at to kill the most people.
[2:22:57 - 2:23:00] ▶
It's so, yeah, I didn't even know that's a, that's a crazy.
[2:23:02 - 2:23:05] ▶
Yeah, that's brilliant.
[2:23:05 - 2:23:06] ▶
I mean, in Annie Jacobson's Pentagon Brain book,
[2:23:06 - 2:23:08] ▶
all about the history of DARPA.
[2:23:08 - 2:23:10] ▶
Fuck wow, dude, one of the most insane books.
[2:23:10 - 2:23:13] ▶
Yeah, that's an amazing book.
[2:23:13 - 2:23:15] ▶
That's one of my favorite books.
[2:23:15 - 2:23:16] ▶
What an epic chronicler of just love her, man.
[2:23:17 - 2:23:21] ▶
And her voice got a voice.
[2:23:21 - 2:23:23] ▶
That's a great voice.
[2:23:23 - 2:23:26] ▶
He's like his best podcast voice in the audience.
[2:23:26 - 2:23:28] ▶
But yeah, no, I don't know how, I don't like going to what you're saying.
[2:23:34 - 2:23:37] ▶
I don't know how you break the out of that, right?
[2:23:37 - 2:23:40] ▶
Like how do you break out of that?
[2:23:40 - 2:23:41] ▶
That's the way the world works.
[2:23:41 - 2:23:43] ▶
That's the way the world works.
[2:23:43 - 2:23:45] ▶
The, the, the, the, the, the main motivation for technological
[2:23:45 - 2:23:50] ▶
innovation is for super bow, super powers to maintain their power
[2:23:50 - 2:23:54] ▶
and to gain more power.
[2:23:54 - 2:23:56] ▶
Well, I think, I mean, again, this requires a predisposition to some
[2:23:57 - 2:24:02] ▶
pretty trippy, kind of ontological worldviews, but like I think the veil
[2:24:02 - 2:24:05] ▶
I think like we're seeing more of this stuff now.
[2:24:06 - 2:24:08] ▶
And it might be because we're not being super responsible with our world.
[2:24:08 - 2:24:12] ▶
We live in this multipolar, nuclear world, and you're right.
[2:24:12 - 2:24:15] ▶
To the extent we have access to, you know, anything off the books and, you know,
[2:24:15 - 2:24:19] ▶
of celestial origin or whatever we're weaponizing it immediately.
[2:24:19 - 2:24:23] ▶
And, you know, things are just not good on a global scale right now.
[2:24:23 - 2:24:28] ▶
So I think what we might be seeing is kind of intervention all the three body
[2:24:28 - 2:24:32] ▶
problem or UFOs and nukes with Robert Hastings, where if you talk to any of
[2:24:32 - 2:24:35] ▶
these guys, any of the ICBM security personnel, any of these people, you know,
[2:24:35 - 2:24:39] ▶
first hand witnesses, their first instinct is always, they're trying to tell
[2:24:39 - 2:24:43] ▶
us to like stop our way, you know, to like, you know, hang back and like not
[2:24:43 - 2:24:47] ▶
So, and then you can get into the Mike Masters things where it's like, you know,
[2:24:50 - 2:24:53] ▶
is it some future version of humanity that is coming back in time, trying to
[2:24:53 - 2:24:57] ▶
protect, sustain the existence of the human timeline?
[2:24:57 - 2:25:01] ▶
Because like we're going to blow ourselves up.
[2:25:02 - 2:25:04] ▶
And who would care more than the future version of ourselves?
[2:25:05 - 2:25:08] ▶
It's like in back to the future where it's like, you know, Marty goes back in time
[2:25:08 - 2:25:13] ▶
because he wants his parents, you know, to be together.
[2:25:13 - 2:25:15] ▶
And what Mike says about that the pito morphism thing that happens, our ancestors, they
[2:25:16 - 2:25:21] ▶
when the adults look more like the children of our, of our descendants, yep, is crazy.
[2:25:21 - 2:25:28] ▶
And that's like like the, all the depictions of the aliens, the like children.
[2:25:28 - 2:25:31] ▶
So in 500,000 years, fully grown adults are going to look more like the toddlers of
[2:25:33 - 2:25:36] ▶
If you were to ask any conventional biologist, like somebody who doesn't believe in aliens,
[2:25:37 - 2:25:42] ▶
what will humanity look like in a few thousand years?
[2:25:42 - 2:25:44] ▶
Humans are getting domesticated.
[2:25:45 - 2:25:47] ▶
So we're losing the melanin in our skin.
[2:25:47 - 2:25:49] ▶
So it's getting kind of more pale.
[2:25:49 - 2:25:50] ▶
Our brains are becoming selected for because of more white collar work.
[2:25:50 - 2:25:54] ▶
So cranial size gets much bigger.
[2:25:54 - 2:25:57] ▶
Nose and ears, they don't matter so much because, you know, we're not hunter gathering.
[2:25:57 - 2:26:01] ▶
We, yes, there is pito morphesis.
[2:26:01 - 2:26:03] ▶
We retain the larval features like of like young people in our, you know, basically like
[2:26:04 - 2:26:08] ▶
your kids are going to look like what your ancestors look like in the future.
[2:26:08 - 2:26:12] ▶
And we're becoming domesticated.
[2:26:13 - 2:26:14] ▶
What we will look like, you know, in the future is to us.
[2:26:16 - 2:26:19] ▶
And so I think, yeah.
[2:26:20 - 2:26:21] ▶
And then if you look at like all the databases around UFO abductions, over 50% in almost
[2:26:21 - 2:26:27] ▶
all cases are hominid creatures.
[2:26:27 - 2:26:29] ▶
So, and then you think the likelihood of evolutionary convergence on Zeta reticuli,
[2:26:29 - 2:26:34] ▶
brought from a centauri of them looking like hominid beings.
[2:26:34 - 2:26:37] ▶
What are the chances of their atmosphere, their gravity, their solar system, everything,
[2:26:37 - 2:26:42] ▶
like, like, where they water worlds, I know most of the gody locks plants that we've discovered
[2:26:42 - 2:26:46] ▶
have been water worlds, if I'm not mistaken.
[2:26:46 - 2:26:48] ▶
So like if they evolved in a world that was mostly water, yeah, wouldn't look anything
[2:26:48 - 2:26:52] ▶
Are they going to have a brain that is directly on top of the head?
[2:26:53 - 2:26:54] ▶
You have eight million species on earth and you have like 20 upright hominid, exactly.
[2:26:54 - 2:26:58] ▶
And then you have like one, like, one, like, one, three, another, and then you're saying
[2:26:58 - 2:27:02] ▶
like a gray looks exactly like us.
[2:27:02 - 2:27:03] ▶
It does make any sense.
[2:27:03 - 2:27:04] ▶
That blew my mind the most out of that book is how rare we are.
[2:27:04 - 2:27:08] ▶
As the species, homo sapiens, on planet earth, which is a planet that's teaming with
[2:27:09 - 2:27:15] ▶
And how few planets that we've discovered that are habitable of life and they're like,
[2:27:17 - 2:27:21] ▶
what, how much, like, he was basically saying it's like, we are 0.0001% of the species
[2:27:21 - 2:27:28] ▶
So if you extrapolate that out into the universe and how many planets are able to inhabit
[2:27:29 - 2:27:32] ▶
life, what's the chance they're going to look like us?
[2:27:32 - 2:27:35] ▶
Like, that accurate.
[2:27:35 - 2:27:36] ▶
And it's the most like impossible.
[2:27:38 - 2:27:39] ▶
No, it's the exactly.
[2:27:40 - 2:27:42] ▶
It's the likelihood.
[2:27:42 - 2:27:43] ▶
And if you're seeing a thing in your neighborhood, it's more likely to be related.
[2:27:43 - 2:27:46] ▶
It's think about like North Sentinel Island is off the coast of India and they never get
[2:27:46 - 2:27:50] ▶
visited occasionally by missionaries and they'll kill the missionaries.
[2:27:50 - 2:27:53] ▶
And they probably think when people visit them, like, you know, you're just some white
[2:27:54 - 2:27:57] ▶
dude and you like show up there, they'd be like, you're an alien.
[2:27:57 - 2:28:00] ▶
Because they don't know the rest of the world exists.
[2:28:00 - 2:28:02] ▶
But if you see a thing in your neighborhood and it looks like you, it's probably an extension
[2:28:03 - 2:28:06] ▶
It's just kind of a comes razor.
[2:28:07 - 2:28:09] ▶
And then we have 20 billion, you know, earth-like planets in the Milky Way galaxy.
[2:28:10 - 2:28:14] ▶
So people love to say that.
[2:28:14 - 2:28:16] ▶
But then you have an over-attrillion on earth-like planet.
[2:28:16 - 2:28:18] ▶
So again, the likelihood that you are seeing a thing in your neighborhood that looks like
[2:28:18 - 2:28:22] ▶
you doesn't only look like you, looks like what you probably are going to look like.
[2:28:22 - 2:28:25] ▶
In a certain amount of time from a conventional evolutionary biology perspective, it's probably
[2:28:25 - 2:28:30] ▶
I love the McMaster's thesis as a result of that.
[2:28:30 - 2:28:32] ▶
Where I think Mike, where I would disagree with him or where I think he might fall slightly
[2:28:32 - 2:28:37] ▶
short and he would probably admit this because he's, again, he's done amazing foundational
[2:28:37 - 2:28:41] ▶
work is like, I don't know if it's us from the future.
[2:28:41 - 2:28:45] ▶
I think we might be stuck in a time-bound reality where we're subject to Zeno's arrow of
[2:28:45 - 2:28:51] ▶
time, where we are kind of indelibly, permanently moving forward in Zeno's arrow of time.
[2:28:51 - 2:28:57] ▶
And they have some ability to do trans-temporal stuff where they can time travel.
[2:28:57 - 2:29:03] ▶
And so you get all these weird questions of like, if time travel is future, it's possible
[2:29:03 - 2:29:07] ▶
at any point in the future, which he's saying it is, right, with his book, because they're
[2:29:07 - 2:29:10] ▶
saying they're coming back in time.
[2:29:10 - 2:29:11] ▶
They wouldn't be able to go back past when that time machine was created, is that right?
[2:29:11 - 2:29:15] ▶
Then it's always been inherently available.
[2:29:16 - 2:29:18] ▶
If time travel is available at any point in the future, it's always been available, getting
[2:29:18 - 2:29:21] ▶
So that means time travel would have been figured out somewhere else in the universe.
[2:29:22 - 2:29:25] ▶
So then you get into these questions of like, you have the angels and demons ontology,
[2:29:26 - 2:29:31] ▶
and you have the human future time travel to ontology.
[2:29:31 - 2:29:35] ▶
I think a really valid use of like a think tank would be like, how do those two things
[2:29:35 - 2:29:40] ▶
Are these ascended humans that have trans-temporal capabilities, time travel capabilities that
[2:29:41 - 2:29:47] ▶
are like the next step on the evolutionary chain?
[2:29:47 - 2:29:50] ▶
But like saying future is kind of a misnomer because in their paradigm, time doesn't even
[2:29:50 - 2:29:54] ▶
exist the way it exists in ours.
[2:29:54 - 2:29:56] ▶
So, you get into all sorts of like crazy rabbit holes.
[2:29:57 - 2:30:00] ▶
But what I love about that book is it's just, it's very scientific.
[2:30:00 - 2:30:04] ▶
It goes through cases and it goes through data to the extent we have data.
[2:30:04 - 2:30:08] ▶
Unfortunately, the data is kind of scant, but it goes through the data and it just makes
[2:30:08 - 2:30:12] ▶
a very compelling ground up argument for why time travel is involved and why they're related
[2:30:12 - 2:30:17] ▶
to humans and not just, you know, the time dilation paradox thing is really interesting
[2:30:17 - 2:30:22] ▶
He said, I love the part where he's talking about like if we sent some interstellar crew
[2:30:23 - 2:30:30] ▶
out into the universe to find another planet or whatever, he's like 20 years of their
[2:30:30 - 2:30:35] ▶
rocket time would be like 100,000 years of our time here on Earth.
[2:30:35 - 2:30:39] ▶
So by like, so like 20 years into their trip, we would have figured out technology on Earth
[2:30:40 - 2:30:46] ▶
to be able to blow past them.
[2:30:46 - 2:30:48] ▶
And like he's like, he's like 20 years into their trip, we're going to have people from
[2:30:48 - 2:30:51] ▶
Earth passing them and they just left that morning with a belly full of breakfast.
[2:30:51 - 2:30:56] ▶
And they're like, what the fuck?
[2:30:56 - 2:30:58] ▶
We waste our entire lives on this.
[2:30:58 - 2:31:00] ▶
That's an interesting paradox too.
[2:31:02 - 2:31:03] ▶
Oh, it's a fascinating one.
[2:31:03 - 2:31:05] ▶
Any of the whole planet of the apes that yeah, it's like the time itself is very weird.
[2:31:05 - 2:31:11] ▶
In general relativity, you have time dilation, which we just described the twin paradox
[2:31:11 - 2:31:14] ▶
And then in quantum stuff, I don't think we quite understand time.
[2:31:16 - 2:31:20] ▶
We take it as like this formal axiom intrudengers equation, but it's actually kind of really
[2:31:20 - 2:31:25] ▶
And like time and gravity are coupled in general relativity, the closer you get to a gravitational
[2:31:26 - 2:31:30] ▶
And in quantum stuff, we can't figure out gravity.
[2:31:33 - 2:31:37] ▶
That's this big field of quantum gravity, which is turned into string theory, which is
[2:31:37 - 2:31:40] ▶
like we've never been able to solve for gravity.
[2:31:40 - 2:31:42] ▶
We've never been able to, you know, fully figure that out.
[2:31:42 - 2:31:46] ▶
That documentary you did too with Eric Weinstein and, uh, output off.
[2:31:46 - 2:31:50] ▶
Yeah, that's fun, man.
[2:31:50 - 2:31:51] ▶
Like string theory, some limited hangout or something.
[2:31:51 - 2:31:54] ▶
That's the distraction.
[2:31:54 - 2:31:55] ▶
Yeah, Eric makes that proposition.
[2:31:55 - 2:31:57] ▶
He goes, I don't know.
[2:31:57 - 2:31:58] ▶
He goes, if you were trying to limit the physics, string theory would be a pretty good
[2:31:58 - 2:32:01] ▶
Which that gets beyond me.
[2:32:03 - 2:32:05] ▶
Okay, so like, is string theory this like padded walls 2D version of the real physics that
[2:32:05 - 2:32:12] ▶
they have in the back room?
[2:32:12 - 2:32:14] ▶
And it's just this like initiation recruitment thing, but it's like less dangerous.
[2:32:14 - 2:32:18] ▶
I don't know if you can do that deliberately.
[2:32:18 - 2:32:20] ▶
That seems like maybe like beyond human coordination abilities.
[2:32:20 - 2:32:25] ▶
It gets beyond my physics knowledge.
[2:32:25 - 2:32:26] ▶
And Eric might be able to speak to that more in a more sophisticated way as to like why
[2:32:26 - 2:32:30] ▶
that might even be possible.
[2:32:30 - 2:32:32] ▶
But crazy thing that he said that really, that really resonated with me in that video was
[2:32:32 - 2:32:37] ▶
he was like, look at the Civil War in 1860.
[2:32:37 - 2:32:40] ▶
Just then a human lifetime later, we figured out the fucking atom bomb.
[2:32:40 - 2:32:43] ▶
How to drop an atom bomb out of a plane.
[2:32:44 - 2:32:46] ▶
And less than a hundred years.
[2:32:46 - 2:32:47] ▶
Less than a hundred years.
[2:32:47 - 2:32:48] ▶
Less than a hundred years.
[2:32:48 - 2:32:50] ▶
I mean, just the understanding of physics, how that changes our world and our technology
[2:32:50 - 2:32:57] ▶
and our civilization.
[2:32:57 - 2:32:58] ▶
We were using muskets.
[2:32:58 - 2:33:00] ▶
And it's a muskets to nukes.
[2:33:01 - 2:33:03] ▶
And if you take the three body problems seriously where you have the Fermi paradox where
[2:33:04 - 2:33:09] ▶
it's like, can you explain the three body problem for people who might have that kind of
[2:33:09 - 2:33:12] ▶
Yeah, it's like these tricellarian aliens that like we've been in contact with.
[2:33:13 - 2:33:17] ▶
It takes place actually originally in the cultural revolution in China.
[2:33:17 - 2:33:22] ▶
And you have all these like scientists getting kind of like stamped out or whatever.
[2:33:22 - 2:33:26] ▶
And then you have modern scientists that are making contact with aliens.
[2:33:26 - 2:33:32] ▶
And often it's in these extremely advanced science projects like particle accelerators
[2:33:32 - 2:33:35] ▶
that in places like CERN.
[2:33:35 - 2:33:37] ▶
And they're getting all sorts of like interesting comms from the aliens.
[2:33:37 - 2:33:41] ▶
And the tricellarian aliens are like in touch with the government.
[2:33:41 - 2:33:45] ▶
And they're like, you cannot tell the populace that we are in touch with you because it's
[2:33:45 - 2:33:49] ▶
going to like kind of, you know, it's going to tip off mass hysteria.
[2:33:49 - 2:33:52] ▶
So we have to like slowly infiltrate ourselves, which is by the way very similar to R.
[2:33:52 - 2:33:57] ▶
Thrucy Clark's amazing book, Childhoods End.
[2:33:57 - 2:34:00] ▶
And I think this idea that like an alien civilization is slowly accepting itself is very
[2:34:00 - 2:34:06] ▶
popular and actually probably a good answer to the, you know, Fermi paradox.
[2:34:06 - 2:34:10] ▶
If you were incredibly sophisticated, you wouldn't show up as this foreign invader hominid.
[2:34:10 - 2:34:15] ▶
You would just accept yourself.
[2:34:15 - 2:34:16] ▶
You'd create hybrids, you'd do genetic experiments.
[2:34:16 - 2:34:18] ▶
You do all sorts of stuff.
[2:34:18 - 2:34:19] ▶
So what were we just talking about?
[2:34:19 - 2:34:22] ▶
Why did I bring up the three body problem?
[2:34:22 - 2:34:24] ▶
Oh, we're talking about you.
[2:34:26 - 2:34:28] ▶
So like if you take the three body problem, like in the three body problem,
[2:34:30 - 2:34:33] ▶
there's this dark forest analogy.
[2:34:33 - 2:34:35] ▶
And it's like the universe could be teaming with life.
[2:34:35 - 2:34:38] ▶
And it could be adaptive from the perspective of an alien race to not show themselves to
[2:34:38 - 2:34:44] ▶
you because they're worried that you're going to kill them or like going to harm them.
[2:34:44 - 2:34:48] ▶
And why would they care until you start creating nukes or like certain things that like maybe
[2:34:48 - 2:34:54] ▶
you reach a certain level of consciousness, maybe you create a nuke, maybe it's high
[2:34:54 - 2:34:57] ▶
energy physics, and maybe it's certain people reaching certain levels of consciousness.
[2:34:57 - 2:35:02] ▶
And then all of a sudden they make themselves known where it's like you are living, you
[2:35:02 - 2:35:06] ▶
you're living in this time bound simulation and you're poking at the edges of the simulation.
[2:35:06 - 2:35:11] ▶
You can do it with consciousness.
[2:35:11 - 2:35:12] ▶
You do it with high energy physics.
[2:35:12 - 2:35:14] ▶
And you know, here we are, like trying to like, you know, guard the simulation.
[2:35:14 - 2:35:20] ▶
And like make sure you're not going to like mess anything up in a big way.
[2:35:20 - 2:35:25] ▶
And so I think that's actually a very good answer to the Fermi paradox.
[2:35:25 - 2:35:28] ▶
It's like, why don't they show themselves?
[2:35:28 - 2:35:29] ▶
Well, it's actually like probably evolutionarily adaptive for them to not show themselves.
[2:35:29 - 2:35:34] ▶
It like makes more sense that they wouldn't in many ways.
[2:35:34 - 2:35:36] ▶
Yeah, that does make a lot of sense.
[2:35:37 - 2:35:41] ▶
So you think what are your thoughts on the whole string theory thing?
[2:35:41 - 2:35:45] ▶
Do you think that it's like, I know Eric's like gone off the rails with it.
[2:35:45 - 2:35:48] ▶
He says Micho Kaku's had a control over his talk to Micho Kaku.
[2:35:48 - 2:35:51] ▶
Like, I think clearly it doesn't work.
[2:35:54 - 2:35:57] ▶
And like it doesn't take Eric or any physicist.
[2:35:57 - 2:36:01] ▶
Like you or me can say it doesn't work.
[2:36:01 - 2:36:03] ▶
It like name me like a piece of technology that's come from shrink there.
[2:36:03 - 2:36:06] ▶
Can't name anything.
[2:36:07 - 2:36:08] ▶
Unfortunately, name me something that's come from quantum field theory.
[2:36:08 - 2:36:10] ▶
Like semi-conductors like a third of our economy, quantum field theory.
[2:36:10 - 2:36:15] ▶
So it's like one thing is like this.
[2:36:17 - 2:36:18] ▶
Your lost in like science is the map and not the territory in my belief.
[2:36:18 - 2:36:24] ▶
Like my metaphysical world to use more like Plato.
[2:36:25 - 2:36:28] ▶
Like it's like there's something beyond us that's true.
[2:36:28 - 2:36:31] ▶
It exists in the world of like forms and ideas.
[2:36:31 - 2:36:33] ▶
But like when it comes to science, I'm more kind of Aristotelian in that what is useful
[2:36:33 - 2:36:37] ▶
And the quantum stuff is eminently useful.
[2:36:38 - 2:36:40] ▶
If you want the most accurate sensor, it's a quantum sensor.
[2:36:40 - 2:36:43] ▶
If you want the best computer, you know, eventually it'll be a quantum computer.
[2:36:43 - 2:36:46] ▶
You know, quantum stuff just seems to work incredibly well, especially at like lower
[2:36:46 - 2:36:53] ▶
scale, subatomic scales.
[2:36:53 - 2:36:55] ▶
And it's really useful from an engineering standpoint.
[2:36:55 - 2:36:58] ▶
And string theory is just basically trying to force fit what describes our kind of cosmological
[2:36:58 - 2:37:05] ▶
world views of general relativity and quantum field theory force fit them with math.
[2:37:05 - 2:37:12] ▶
And so you have a map here that's not the map is not the territory.
[2:37:12 - 2:37:15] ▶
You have stuff that you can do cool things with with quantum field theory.
[2:37:15 - 2:37:19] ▶
You have some stuff you can do cool things with with general relativity.
[2:37:19 - 2:37:22] ▶
Neither are descriptors of the underlying reality.
[2:37:22 - 2:37:25] ▶
So the maps are going to be a little jagged and off.
[2:37:25 - 2:37:28] ▶
String theory is like you have these jagged off maps that aren't perfect and you are forcing
[2:37:28 - 2:37:32] ▶
them together with math.
[2:37:32 - 2:37:34] ▶
Like it doesn't take our genius like you or I could look at that and be like that's
[2:37:34 - 2:37:38] ▶
It's just the wrong approach.
[2:37:40 - 2:37:41] ▶
So that's the way I look at it from like a more high level perspective as to like, you
[2:37:41 - 2:37:47] ▶
know, whether it's some limited hangout.
[2:37:47 - 2:37:49] ▶
There are all these really interesting things I've uncovered with thick.
[2:37:49 - 2:37:53] ▶
So the people that funded quantum gravity were, you know, it was like initially kind of
[2:37:53 - 2:37:58] ▶
established at this Chapel Hill conference at University of North Carolina in 1957.
[2:37:58 - 2:38:02] ▶
And it was this guy Agnew Bonson and he was obsessed with gravity.
[2:38:03 - 2:38:07] ▶
And he was also got named Dewitt and then Christ Dewitt.
[2:38:07 - 2:38:09] ▶
The Institute of Field Physics was Bonson's outfit and Christ Dewitt was his chief theoretical
[2:38:10 - 2:38:15] ▶
And he's basically convening the top physicist in the world at the time.
[2:38:17 - 2:38:21] ▶
I don't think anybody would argue with this like John Wheeler, Peter Bergman, you know,
[2:38:21 - 2:38:26] ▶
Freeman Dyson, like these legends.
[2:38:26 - 2:38:28] ▶
And they're all trying to figure out why gravity breaks down, you know, at subatomic scale.
[2:38:28 - 2:38:34] ▶
So like why gravity doesn't work with quantum stuff.
[2:38:34 - 2:38:37] ▶
And that establishes the field of quantum gravity from which you could say, strength
[2:38:37 - 2:38:40] ▶
theory is like a later offshoot, right?
[2:38:40 - 2:38:43] ▶
This is the crazy part.
[2:38:43 - 2:38:45] ▶
Bonson in the back room is funding towns and brown.
[2:38:45 - 2:38:49] ▶
And in my opinion, I've uncovered all sorts of stuff as to why towns and brown experimentally
[2:38:49 - 2:38:54] ▶
is figuring out real physics and is using these capacitors and with high voltage experimentation
[2:38:54 - 2:39:01] ▶
in a way that ostensibly seems to create some sort of connection between electromagnetism
[2:39:01 - 2:39:07] ▶
and gravity, which again, if you were to talk to any conventional physicists, they'd be
[2:39:07 - 2:39:10] ▶
like if you can experimentally do that, that is crazy.
[2:39:10 - 2:39:13] ▶
Leads to all sorts of amazing possibilities for pulsion, calms, whatever.
[2:39:13 - 2:39:17] ▶
And so I think Bonson was like funding some like, you know, back of the house research
[2:39:17 - 2:39:22] ▶
with this guy, Townsend Brown, who was according to a couple of books, this guy, Paul, Paul
[2:39:22 - 2:39:27] ▶
of the Olette, he was maybe even at the Chapel Hill Conference.
[2:39:27 - 2:39:31] ▶
And the thing about Brown is he was never an amazing theoretician.
[2:39:31 - 2:39:35] ▶
He was more of an experimentalist.
[2:39:35 - 2:39:36] ▶
He was more of a Tesla type.
[2:39:36 - 2:39:38] ▶
And he actually wasn't like traditionally super credentialed, but he had theories around
[2:39:38 - 2:39:43] ▶
And I think he was kind of breaking physics and there are all these kind of credible witnesses
[2:39:44 - 2:39:48] ▶
who saw what he was doing and were freaked out.
[2:39:48 - 2:39:50] ▶
Edward Teller was one of those witnesses who freaked out Curtis Lemay witnesses experiments.
[2:39:50 - 2:39:55] ▶
And so, you know, I think he was doing some really interesting off the book stuff.
[2:39:55 - 2:39:59] ▶
And then meanwhile, academic physics is being sent into a cul-de-sac, being sent into
[2:39:59 - 2:40:04] ▶
Is that incidental and emergent?
[2:40:05 - 2:40:06] ▶
I don't know how conspiratorial to be about that, but it's fascinating.
[2:40:07 - 2:40:11] ▶
Jeremy Riss was explaining to me, alien scientist.
[2:40:12 - 2:40:14] ▶
He does great work on that.
[2:40:15 - 2:40:17] ▶
He's like a fucking historian on this anti-gravity history and all this stuff.
[2:40:17 - 2:40:21] ▶
The amount of knowledge he has is unimaginable.
[2:40:22 - 2:40:25] ▶
But like, I think he was explaining to me that, um, DeWitt and Whitton, we're both working
[2:40:26 - 2:40:33] ▶
on this stuff previous to that North Carolina summit event or whatever.
[2:40:33 - 2:40:37] ▶
And then here's the interesting strength theory connection.
[2:40:40 - 2:40:41] ▶
Lewis Whitton was the representative of that conference from RIS, which is Martin Corporation's
[2:40:41 - 2:40:45] ▶
anti-gravity research group.
[2:40:45 - 2:40:47] ▶
And so Martin Corporation is pre-lockied merger.
[2:40:47 - 2:40:49] ▶
So it's the original lockied Martin has like an anti-gravity research group.
[2:40:49 - 2:40:52] ▶
Lewis Whitton is researching gravity.
[2:40:52 - 2:40:55] ▶
And he even says this.
[2:40:55 - 2:40:56] ▶
There's a video online where he goes, I was, uh, uh, I was meant to research gravity
[2:40:56 - 2:41:01] ▶
and right, right field told me to research gravity.
[2:41:01 - 2:41:03] ▶
The whole conference is sponsored by right airfield.
[2:41:03 - 2:41:06] ▶
Which is the epicenter of all UFO lore.
[2:41:07 - 2:41:10] ▶
Bryce DeWitt almost worked at RIS as well.
[2:41:10 - 2:41:13] ▶
And then he ended up at the Institute of Field Physics.
[2:41:13 - 2:41:15] ▶
There are all these interesting aerospace connections.
[2:41:15 - 2:41:17] ▶
John, there was so much, it was so bound up in aerospace that John Wheeler would complain
[2:41:17 - 2:41:22] ▶
at like the, how like tied an air tied to aerospace and anti-gravity.
[2:41:22 - 2:41:26] ▶
Like he, he kept being like, you know, all this talk of anti-gravity.
[2:41:26 - 2:41:30] ▶
I have to figure this out in like a serious academic way.
[2:41:31 - 2:41:33] ▶
But that just shows you the prevailing ethos of, you know, the place itself.
[2:41:34 - 2:41:39] ▶
And so it's, it's really fascinating.
[2:41:39 - 2:41:41] ▶
Right field had its own, this guy named Josh Goldberg, who is a PhD from Syracuse.
[2:41:41 - 2:41:45] ▶
And they were systematically studying anti-gravity.
[2:41:45 - 2:41:48] ▶
Anti-gravity in the 50s was, you know, uh, uh, uh, Lewis Whitton even says this in the
[2:41:48 - 2:41:52] ▶
wind, meaning it was everywhere.
[2:41:52 - 2:41:54] ▶
But it also, the other meaning of in the wind is, it's a spy term that could mean in the
[2:41:54 - 2:41:57] ▶
Oh, that's really interesting.
[2:41:58 - 2:42:00] ▶
Like that, there could be some double meaning there.
[2:42:00 - 2:42:02] ▶
So the, the tie between quantum gravity and strength theories, Lewis Whitton's son is
[2:42:02 - 2:42:05] ▶
a guy named Ed Witton.
[2:42:05 - 2:42:06] ▶
Ed Witton is the number one strength theorist, you know, in the world bar none.
[2:42:07 - 2:42:11] ▶
And this is the guy that, that Eric was talking about on the Joe Rogan podcast saying, this
[2:42:11 - 2:42:15] ▶
guy is like untouchable.
[2:42:15 - 2:42:16] ▶
He's like, so scared.
[2:42:16 - 2:42:17] ▶
I'm so intimidated by this guy's intelligence.
[2:42:22 - 2:42:23] ▶
That's like doing and then?
[2:42:31 - 2:42:32] ▶
So exactly, that's right.
[2:42:39 - 2:42:40] ▶
So first name of a conversation level I'm just, like, I'm doing that...
[2:42:42 - 2:42:46] ▶
that I was thinking, you know, you can see it here.
[2:42:46 - 2:42:48] ▶
So a guy named Bennett was sitting next to him.
[2:42:48 - 2:42:49] ▶
He even Kobuki would come back and see me around.
[2:42:49 - 2:42:52] ▶
It's something to write like for my brother that, maybe, to me, so expressed their
[2:42:52 - 2:43:00] ▶
Has anyone talked to him?
[2:43:01 - 2:43:02] ▶
Have you ever talked to him?
[2:43:02 - 2:43:03] ▶
Has Eric ever talked to him?
[2:43:03 - 2:43:04] ▶
He is I think 99 years old or something.
[2:43:04 - 2:43:08] ▶
So it's like, it's like in so, super old.
[2:43:09 - 2:43:11] ▶
And I have a friend who has corresponded over email with him.
[2:43:11 - 2:43:16] ▶
And as soon as he said, you know, hey, I want to get into the anti-gravity stuff, the line
[2:43:16 - 2:43:20] ▶
And he stopped responding to emails.
[2:43:21 - 2:43:24] ▶
I make a bit that we've made updates in the world of gravity that are off the books
[2:43:24 - 2:43:29] ▶
and not any, you don't even need me to say this.
[2:43:29 - 2:43:32] ▶
Like the National Science Foundation is now coming out with these podcasts talking about
[2:43:32 - 2:43:36] ▶
extended electrodynamics.
[2:43:36 - 2:43:38] ▶
And literally scientific frameworks that if I were to say this a year to go to you, you'd
[2:43:38 - 2:43:42] ▶
be like, that's quacky.
[2:43:42 - 2:43:43] ▶
That doesn't make any sense.
[2:43:43 - 2:43:44] ▶
And like, this was relegated to like zero point energy conferences in the Southwest.
[2:43:44 - 2:43:49] ▶
Like that, you know, some crystal healer would tell you about extended electrodynamics.
[2:43:49 - 2:43:53] ▶
And you'd be like, okay, yeah, go, yeah.
[2:43:53 - 2:43:55] ▶
But it's being vindicated as real.
[2:43:55 - 2:43:58] ▶
And electro-gravidics being vindicated.
[2:43:58 - 2:44:00] ▶
A lot of people who are high up of kind of like, hey, you're kind of on to things, some
[2:44:00 - 2:44:05] ▶
things with this stuff.
[2:44:05 - 2:44:06] ▶
And I just interviewed Carl Nell, who's the Army representative for the UAP task force,
[2:44:06 - 2:44:12] ▶
worked alongside Grush.
[2:44:12 - 2:44:13] ▶
Was the deputy CTO of Northrop Grumman part of what the argument I made in my tons of
[2:44:14 - 2:44:18] ▶
brown documentaries that some of this gravity, you know, interesting gravity stuff made
[2:44:18 - 2:44:23] ▶
it into the B2 stealth bomber.
[2:44:23 - 2:44:24] ▶
Some of Brown's work.
[2:44:24 - 2:44:25] ▶
This is like the ion wind stuff, like the, yes, somehow because it looks like the stealth
[2:44:25 - 2:44:30] ▶
bombers, they look like they defy gravity because they don't look built like they're like
[2:44:30 - 2:44:35] ▶
the, unless they have some super powerful jet engines.
[2:44:35 - 2:44:37] ▶
The, the, which they do, but most legendary air, air space journalist in the UK was a guy
[2:44:37 - 2:44:46] ▶
And he's writing a survey level overview of all arrow tech, you know, arrow engine technology
[2:44:48 - 2:44:54] ▶
And he gets to the B2 stealth bomber and he says, you know, I do not wish to reside in
[2:44:55 - 2:45:02] ▶
the Tower of London.
[2:45:02 - 2:45:03] ▶
So I will refrain from talking about clever wings with leading edges charged to millions
[2:45:03 - 2:45:09] ▶
of volts positive with trailing edges charged to millions of volts negative.
[2:45:09 - 2:45:13] ▶
He's talking about the B2 stealth bomber.
[2:45:13 - 2:45:16] ▶
And you arrow space or aviation week, aviation week, Bill Scott, another, you know, amazing
[2:45:16 - 2:45:23] ▶
aviation journalist.
[2:45:23 - 2:45:25] ▶
He says, you know, one, when the B2 gets revealed, you know, early 90s, he's like the B2
[2:45:25 - 2:45:31] ▶
surfs its own wave and uses a byfield brown effect.
[2:45:31 - 2:45:34] ▶
Some people even think B2 is stands for byfield brown.
[2:45:34 - 2:45:38] ▶
And so the majority owner of Northrop, where the B2 came from, Northrop Grumman.
[2:45:38 - 2:45:44] ▶
So this is pre merger with Grumman.
[2:45:44 - 2:45:46] ▶
The majority owner or the majority investor rather is a guy named Floyd Oedlam.
[2:45:46 - 2:45:51] ▶
He's a financier of narrow space.
[2:45:52 - 2:45:53] ▶
He's funding Brown's research in Santa Monica.
[2:45:53 - 2:45:57] ▶
And the research fails, quote, unquote, in 67.
[2:45:57 - 2:46:01] ▶
Then in 68, three months later, because the end of 67, early 68, they published a paper
[2:46:01 - 2:46:06] ▶
in Northrop saying we are looking into electro arrow dynamics.
[2:46:06 - 2:46:10] ▶
And it's this paper that was archived in the American Institute of Astronautics, aeronautics
[2:46:10 - 2:46:15] ▶
or aeronautics and astronauts.
[2:46:15 - 2:46:17] ▶
And that paper just goes missing.
[2:46:17 - 2:46:19] ▶
And so they retract that paper and say, oh, there's nothing to see here, whatever.
[2:46:19 - 2:46:23] ▶
And then a couple of decades later, the B2 stealth bomber gets revealed.
[2:46:23 - 2:46:26] ▶
So it's like, you tell me, like, I think there's a there there.
[2:46:26 - 2:46:31] ▶
So basically in the 50s, before that conference in North Carolina, like the idea is that,
[2:46:33 - 2:46:39] ▶
or what Eric was speculating is the possibility that this stuff just went dark and got captured
[2:46:39 - 2:46:44] ▶
by these aerospace companies.
[2:46:44 - 2:46:45] ▶
And like, they came up with a plan to basically like, deceive the public, send the public
[2:46:45 - 2:46:52] ▶
down the strength theory, rabbit hole and take all this stuff that to wit and whiten and
[2:46:52 - 2:46:57] ▶
brown we're doing and make this part of this secret black project stuff.
[2:46:57 - 2:47:00] ▶
I think it's hard to say whether we just had updates in topological physics and experimental
[2:47:00 - 2:47:05] ▶
And we figured out some anomalies and like locally useful frameworks where it's like,
[2:47:06 - 2:47:11] ▶
we know how this works in the context of a single, you know, this, it's stealth aircraft.
[2:47:11 - 2:47:15] ▶
But like how generalizable that gets, like how much you can do with that.
[2:47:15 - 2:47:19] ▶
Total black box to me.
[2:47:20 - 2:47:21] ▶
And I don't know how coordinated the sequestering of that.
[2:47:21 - 2:47:25] ▶
There's a ton of smoke.
[2:47:25 - 2:47:26] ▶
There's there's not a lot of fire.
[2:47:26 - 2:47:28] ▶
It's just hard to say.
[2:47:28 - 2:47:29] ▶
And then you can either say it was like sequestered by, you know, just humans, you know, where
[2:47:29 - 2:47:34] ▶
it's like you need, you need top side science, you need black side science or whatever.
[2:47:34 - 2:47:38] ▶
Which we definitely have.
[2:47:38 - 2:47:39] ▶
I mean, that's ridiculous to say we don't even like, and you know, a Mark and Dresden and
[2:47:39 - 2:47:43] ▶
Ben Horowitz, I think we're at the White House.
[2:47:43 - 2:47:45] ▶
Like some national security council person was like, yeah, we're going to like regulate
[2:47:45 - 2:47:48] ▶
I just like we regulated physics in the past.
[2:47:49 - 2:47:51] ▶
Physics, you're talking about physics.
[2:47:51 - 2:47:52] ▶
So like, this has definitely been done.
[2:47:52 - 2:47:54] ▶
The idea that hasn't been done is absurd.
[2:47:54 - 2:47:55] ▶
Um, and so is that coordinated on a human level?
[2:47:56 - 2:47:59] ▶
Do you believe the three body problems stuff where the aliens are controlling the way science
[2:47:59 - 2:48:03] ▶
emerges to begin with?
[2:48:03 - 2:48:04] ▶
And like, are they like playing deceptive tricks on our top scientists and then like inspiring
[2:48:05 - 2:48:09] ▶
other science that like, they don't get into these like crazy questions.
[2:48:09 - 2:48:12] ▶
I don't know how it went down.
[2:48:12 - 2:48:14] ▶
Have we made updates in science in the black?
[2:48:14 - 2:48:16] ▶
Like you watch my town's in brown documentary.
[2:48:17 - 2:48:19] ▶
I think it's hard to come out of it being like, this stuff is fake.
[2:48:19 - 2:48:21] ▶
Like if you actually like ingest the details, it's like, absolutely.
[2:48:21 - 2:48:25] ▶
Like I know even me out, I have to think probabilistically, but I'm like 80%.
[2:48:25 - 2:48:29] ▶
Um, and then so go back to Jake Barbara.
[2:48:31 - 2:48:33] ▶
So so going back to this, uh, Jake Barbara thing where they're getting these psionic
[2:48:33 - 2:48:38] ▶
asses from other countries and getting them and putting them in this program using drugs
[2:48:38 - 2:48:42] ▶
and using protocols to get them to sort of summon these things.
[2:48:42 - 2:48:46] ▶
He's saying that they're using these people to summon these crafts.
[2:48:46 - 2:48:49] ▶
Did he say he had any idea where they were coming from?
[2:48:50 - 2:48:53] ▶
No, that that was um, the Jake interview was simultaneously felt historic and epic and
[2:48:53 - 2:49:00] ▶
he was so articulate and like such a good, you know, pervader of like, so intelligent.
[2:49:00 - 2:49:04] ▶
And then where it was incredibly frustrating, even in a way that like, grush,
[2:49:07 - 2:49:11] ▶
a grush is like can get into the theory and speculation and is like a good fact finder.
[2:49:11 - 2:49:17] ▶
And it felt like with Jake, he was just, he really wanted to like, keep to like the core
[2:49:17 - 2:49:21] ▶
details of like what he experienced and it made it, it was a little frustrating for
[2:49:21 - 2:49:25] ▶
me because I, I think I'm strongest on the theory stuff.
[2:49:25 - 2:49:28] ▶
And like that's what I always want to get into that shit.
[2:49:28 - 2:49:30] ▶
And like I understand his position to like not want it, you know, totally go off the rails
[2:49:31 - 2:49:34] ▶
and speculate into crazy stuff.
[2:49:34 - 2:49:36] ▶
And then there was some sort of tough book hard drive that was held underwater in a glacier
[2:49:36 - 2:49:43] ▶
And top of a mountain.
[2:49:45 - 2:49:46] ▶
And then he had to like retrieve that and then they were trying to like sever the hidden,
[2:49:49 - 2:49:52] ▶
like they were trying to like basically get rid of him and like like because when you're,
[2:49:52 - 2:49:59] ▶
when you're like sheep dipped like that and you're like, you know, director of operations
[2:49:59 - 2:50:03] ▶
for a helicopter company.
[2:50:03 - 2:50:06] ▶
There's so much plausible deniability.
[2:50:06 - 2:50:07] ▶
You're employing just like that.
[2:50:07 - 2:50:08] ▶
What do you tell that guy's crazy, you know, just like people in the public are now saying,
[2:50:08 - 2:50:12] ▶
you know, Jake's crazy or whatever, even if that, you know, all these guys with DD214s
[2:50:12 - 2:50:18] ▶
and like clear history are like coming to back him up and I think he's totally legit.
[2:50:18 - 2:50:21] ▶
Who's backing him up?
[2:50:22 - 2:50:23] ▶
Oh, you know, this guy Don Paul, Don Paul Bales, this other guy's at Ross Coltart has interviewed.
[2:50:23 - 2:50:30] ▶
So he's one Fred Baker is another.
[2:50:30 - 2:50:34] ▶
Ron Blitch I think knows him less well.
[2:50:34 - 2:50:37] ▶
Doesn't have like a, you know, as much of a history with him, but he's a, he's a DARPA
[2:50:37 - 2:50:40] ▶
guy who's come out and he vetted him, I think on behalf of Grush and some other people
[2:50:40 - 2:50:47] ▶
to see if he was the real deal.
[2:50:47 - 2:50:48] ▶
And like he was like, yeah, this guy's story totally comports with like that world that
[2:50:48 - 2:50:53] ▶
I've, you know, come to know and research a little bit.
[2:50:53 - 2:50:56] ▶
So it just seems so crazy to me that they're like we on earth with our motives, our military
[2:50:56 - 2:51:03] ▶
motives and our financial motives are able to do something as crazy as some in something
[2:51:03 - 2:51:09] ▶
from another fucking dimension and crash it.
[2:51:09 - 2:51:11] ▶
It feels crazy to me too.
[2:51:14 - 2:51:15] ▶
The thing, the question that that gets, which I think is really important that we should
[2:51:15 - 2:51:20] ▶
all question is like you hear that we only have, I don't know, 10 to 15 UFOs in our possession.
[2:51:20 - 2:51:26] ▶
They're in a specific hangers or whatever.
[2:51:26 - 2:51:29] ▶
Or maybe you get one, you know, some people say one to two crashes years.
[2:51:29 - 2:51:31] ▶
So that would be, you know, since Roswell, maybe since a little before that say 120 or
[2:51:31 - 2:51:35] ▶
But if you can like sum in these things on command, then you'd expect this to have a thousand
[2:51:37 - 2:51:41] ▶
If you have a thousand plus, you're going to get leakage.
[2:51:42 - 2:51:44] ▶
So like it can't be this like you put a coin in the slot machine that, you know, the
[2:51:46 - 2:51:49] ▶
drink comes out sort of vibe.
[2:51:49 - 2:51:50] ▶
Like it can't just be this like extremely repeatable predictable thing.
[2:51:50 - 2:51:54] ▶
It has to be more hard to, you know, successfully do than that.
[2:51:55 - 2:52:00] ▶
And so yeah, there are all these questions that the interview begets that I think people
[2:52:00 - 2:52:04] ▶
Because I, yeah, I don't know the answer to them.
[2:52:05 - 2:52:07] ▶
And they're like, why, like why isn't he or people he knows or even Greer's people being
[2:52:08 - 2:52:13] ▶
put in front of Congress and test testifying all their stuff?
[2:52:13 - 2:52:16] ▶
And Jake, Jake has said I would 100% testify before Congress.
[2:52:17 - 2:52:21] ▶
And so that again, that show of confidence, I think is important, you know, to, to, to
[2:52:21 - 2:52:25] ▶
which look, I, my guess is Congress has been lied to you before.
[2:52:25 - 2:52:29] ▶
Like I've been in like rooms with Conway and I'm like, the guy, these guys are so, they're
[2:52:29 - 2:52:33] ▶
But like, but, you know, I think just the fact that he's, he's willing to do that, I think
[2:52:34 - 2:52:38] ▶
and go and under oath under, you know, threat of perjury, I think is, you know, a good, a
[2:52:38 - 2:52:43] ▶
So again, I think that the, the, the details are, you know, everybody has to think probabilistically,
[2:52:45 - 2:52:50] ▶
but I think they're, they're, they're, they're pretty solid.
[2:52:50 - 2:52:53] ▶
And then it's like, then then what are there are so many other questions that begets where
[2:52:53 - 2:52:57] ▶
Like what you were saying about like, like being afraid to interact with this or try to
[2:53:00 - 2:53:06] ▶
interact, try to summon it or try to somehow like do some one of these CE5 things that, that
[2:53:06 - 2:53:13] ▶
Greer talks about, you know, and one of the things that, um, I think I talked about with
[2:53:13 - 2:53:19] ▶
Greer was this hitchhiker effect.
[2:53:19 - 2:53:21] ▶
That happens where like not only can people get damaged or hurt or killed by the radiation
[2:53:22 - 2:53:26] ▶
or whatever it is that these things have, but like, there's some sort of portal that's
[2:53:26 - 2:53:30] ▶
permanently opened with you if you're able to interact with this stuff or even see it
[2:53:30 - 2:53:34] ▶
to where now like you have, you have unlimited access to all this crazy, um, paranormal stuff.
[2:53:34 - 2:53:42] ▶
Like some of the stuff that you see a skin walker.
[2:53:43 - 2:53:44] ▶
That's extremely common.
[2:53:44 - 2:53:45] ▶
Like everybody's, yeah, all the skin walkers, a great example.
[2:53:45 - 2:53:48] ▶
And in those cases, I think it was very negative because again, I think if you're trying to like
[2:53:48 - 2:53:52] ▶
weaponize this stuff, it explains, yeah, these kind of hauntings where these, you know,
[2:53:52 - 2:53:56] ▶
aerospace practitioners come home and their, their kids and their family get haunted by
[2:53:56 - 2:54:00] ▶
It is like they have like residue.
[2:54:01 - 2:54:02] ▶
Um, Lou, Lou El-Zondo always calls it a sticky portfolio.
[2:54:02 - 2:54:05] ▶
And I think he calls it that for a very specific reason, which is like stuff gloms onto
[2:54:05 - 2:54:10] ▶
And like what, you know, it's like you stare at the abyss long enough, the abyss stares
[2:54:12 - 2:54:14] ▶
And I, I think that's just a truism, especially in this topic.
[2:54:15 - 2:54:20] ▶
And then what do you make of all like the infighting of all these people?
[2:54:20 - 2:54:23] ▶
Like like El-Zondo versus Greer versus like you have El-Zondo calling Greer a terrorist,
[2:54:23 - 2:54:29] ▶
And like, you know, and simultaneously these guys are all writing books, going on all these
[2:54:32 - 2:54:35] ▶
It's just like, what?
[2:54:36 - 2:54:38] ▶
It's, it's, it's, it's weird.
[2:54:38 - 2:54:41] ▶
And at times I see, you know, all the infighting.
[2:54:41 - 2:54:45] ▶
And I'm like, I'm tired.
[2:54:45 - 2:54:47] ▶
Like I just want more of like a normal life.
[2:54:47 - 2:54:49] ▶
And like, why am I like covering this?
[2:54:49 - 2:54:51] ▶
Like it's just so ridiculous.
[2:54:51 - 2:54:53] ▶
And so we just get fatigued by it.
[2:54:53 - 2:54:55] ▶
I think like the meta-saiop would be like you get distracted by this internal drama or
[2:54:57 - 2:55:04] ▶
And like a rule that I really try to adhere to is I don't go after anybody at hominem.
[2:55:05 - 2:55:10] ▶
There's like a map that I have of UFO.
[2:55:10 - 2:55:12] ▶
And like I should say this for the sake of your audience and my audience.
[2:55:12 - 2:55:16] ▶
Other people I've interviewed that I suspect have ulterior motives.
[2:55:16 - 2:55:20] ▶
I don't call out those ulterior motives because I'm in enough danger seeking truth.
[2:55:20 - 2:55:26] ▶
And I don't want to, like, I don't want people like specifically coming after me because
[2:55:26 - 2:55:30] ▶
I'm like, fucking with them.
[2:55:30 - 2:55:31] ▶
Not only that, but there are people with ulterior motives where like we said earlier,
[2:55:32 - 2:55:36] ▶
there are elements of truth to what they say and like a lot of what they, the people
[2:55:36 - 2:55:41] ▶
can tell the truth in limited ways and have ulterior motives.
[2:55:41 - 2:55:44] ▶
That's what people don't understand.
[2:55:44 - 2:55:45] ▶
So you can sift out valuable stuff.
[2:55:45 - 2:55:49] ▶
So I think the best way is to just be open friendly, cool with everybody.
[2:55:49 - 2:55:54] ▶
You know, cool with, you know, the two guys you just mentioned, I guess Greer I haven't met
[2:55:54 - 2:55:58] ▶
I would be cool with them.
[2:55:59 - 2:56:00] ▶
You know, I just try to have like an open honest, fun conversation and then glean out
[2:56:00 - 2:56:05] ▶
what I think is true.
[2:56:05 - 2:56:06] ▶
And honestly ask rhetorical, if there's any untruths, you ask rhetorical questions that
[2:56:06 - 2:56:11] ▶
like show on the face of it that like there's something kind of going on here, but like
[2:56:11 - 2:56:15] ▶
you don't have to call it out directly because it's just, you're just going to end up in
[2:56:15 - 2:56:18] ▶
some fucking food fight on Twitter and it's going to waste your time.
[2:56:18 - 2:56:21] ▶
And you're not going to get close to the truth that way.
[2:56:22 - 2:56:23] ▶
You're going to get distracted by like getting into it.
[2:56:24 - 2:56:26] ▶
The times I feel conflicted about having that predisposition is like, I do think there's
[2:56:26 - 2:56:31] ▶
been like harassment of people and I see it on like Twitter and other places and like
[2:56:31 - 2:56:35] ▶
that fucks with me because I'm like, I want to like come out and defend, you know, anybody
[2:56:35 - 2:56:41] ▶
who's been harassed just for looking into this stuff.
[2:56:41 - 2:56:43] ▶
And then, and by the way, I've faced it too and there's stuff I could tell you that would
[2:56:44 - 2:56:48] ▶
like, I could tell you off here that's like, it's fucking crazy as far as stuff that's
[2:56:48 - 2:56:51] ▶
happened come my way.
[2:56:51 - 2:56:52] ▶
So like that riles me up for sure, wanting to defend other people.
[2:56:57 - 2:57:02] ▶
But otherwise, man, it's just like it's a, it's not, it's a fool's errand trying to like
[2:57:02 - 2:57:07] ▶
get, you know, turn after somebody.
[2:57:07 - 2:57:09] ▶
So I just, I try to stay like pretty, you know, Switzerland, ask, it seems like you're
[2:57:11 - 2:57:15] ▶
the closest dude out there to this stuff.
[2:57:15 - 2:57:17] ▶
Like you, it seems like you have like flown closer to the sun than anybody.
[2:57:17 - 2:57:23] ▶
That's not good, man.
[2:57:23 - 2:57:26] ▶
Acreist is not, oh no.
[2:57:26 - 2:57:28] ▶
Like the people you know and the circles you run in like, I mean, I mean, I'm not even
[2:57:28 - 2:57:32] ▶
just talking about working for Peter Teal, but like being befriending grush and, you know,
[2:57:32 - 2:57:38] ▶
talking to all these secret aerospace people and getting all this stuff.
[2:57:38 - 2:57:42] ▶
Like you, you're brain, you probably got more of this puzzle put together than most people.
[2:57:42 - 2:57:47] ▶
I think it's, I mean, 100%.
[2:57:47 - 2:57:50] ▶
You have more of the puzzle than most people that are like in the media doing podcasts.
[2:57:50 - 2:57:54] ▶
But like even when it comes to behind the scenes, shit.
[2:57:54 - 2:57:57] ▶
I, thank you for saying that.
[2:57:57 - 2:57:59] ▶
I don't know if that's a good spot to be in.
[2:57:59 - 2:58:01] ▶
Well, that's what I'm saying.
[2:58:01 - 2:58:02] ▶
That's what I'm saying.
[2:58:02 - 2:58:03] ▶
I'm like, if I'm, if I'm one of these people or if I'm more of these folks that are in
[2:58:03 - 2:58:06] ▶
charge of this stuff, I'm going to be maybe trying to, I'm going to be, I'm going to be
[2:58:06 - 2:58:08] ▶
trying to get to you and subvert you.
[2:58:08 - 2:58:10] ▶
I think I'm being fully tracked at all times.
[2:58:11 - 2:58:13] ▶
I think every, every conversation, every text, every interaction.
[2:58:13 - 2:58:19] ▶
And I think up there insights that I've probably come to that have been gleaned and like
[2:58:19 - 2:58:24] ▶
taken for, you know, profit or whatever.
[2:58:24 - 2:58:28] ▶
And you know, that's kind of weird.
[2:58:28 - 2:58:30] ▶
But like you got to just kind of ignore it, put your blinders on, keep going.
[2:58:30 - 2:58:34] ▶
You used to get to me more.
[2:58:34 - 2:58:35] ▶
And now I just try to, you know, I think if you have pure intentions and you're just
[2:58:35 - 2:58:39] ▶
trying to seek truth, then I think things end well for you comically, you know?
[2:58:39 - 2:58:44] ▶
But yeah, for sure, it's a weird spot to be in.
[2:58:44 - 2:58:48] ▶
I think it is partially because like if somebody tells me something and then they say not
[2:58:48 - 2:58:52] ▶
to say it, like I respect relationships.
[2:58:52 - 2:58:54] ▶
Like I don't, if somebody, you know, is providing a, you know, it's a source for something.
[2:58:54 - 2:59:00] ▶
Like I really, I don't fuck people over.
[2:59:00 - 2:59:02] ▶
And even like I think in the micro economics of like podcasting journalist world, it's
[2:59:04 - 2:59:09] ▶
like some of these people would like push their grandma in front of a moving taxi for
[2:59:09 - 2:59:14] ▶
a tip, you know, for a story.
[2:59:14 - 2:59:15] ▶
And it's like, I just don't do that shit.
[2:59:15 - 2:59:17] ▶
Like I just, I, you know, and then if it that cuts against the truth, I'm just not
[2:59:17 - 2:59:24] ▶
I'm not going to put it out, you know?
[2:59:25 - 2:59:26] ▶
But I'll kind of walk away and not touch the fine china and be like, I kind of know
[2:59:26 - 2:59:29] ▶
But like I don't want to.
[2:59:30 - 2:59:31] ▶
What would you do if the CIA came to you, Jesse Michaels, we need to talk.
[2:59:32 - 2:59:35] ▶
We're going to tell you everything.
[2:59:35 - 2:59:38] ▶
We're going to give you access to everything, but you need to shut the fuck up.
[2:59:38 - 2:59:42] ▶
Or you need to just run with the stories that we gave you the green light.
[2:59:42 - 2:59:45] ▶
I think I think security, Jesse, I think that's a counterfactual.
[2:59:46 - 2:59:49] ▶
I don't think the CIA has everything.
[2:59:49 - 2:59:50] ▶
I don't think the government has everything.
[2:59:50 - 2:59:53] ▶
And I realize this might be as, you know, slightly evading your question, but it's like
[2:59:53 - 2:59:57] ▶
genuinely, I think it's so important to emphasize for people.
[2:59:57 - 3:00:01] ▶
Like this is not a file that you can just get.
[3:00:01 - 3:00:04] ▶
The government has tons of data that like reality is not what it seems.
[3:00:04 - 3:00:08] ▶
They probably haven't met a material.
[3:00:08 - 3:00:10] ▶
There's probably some biologics.
[3:00:10 - 3:00:12] ▶
There's probably, you know, there's a lot of stuff that where they like know reality
[3:00:12 - 3:00:16] ▶
is way weirder than what the average civilian does.
[3:00:16 - 3:00:19] ▶
In fact, I think that you would say this too, the closer you get to government circles,
[3:00:19 - 3:00:23] ▶
the more they're conspiratorial than the average citizen.
[3:00:23 - 3:00:26] ▶
They are more conspiratorial.
[3:00:26 - 3:00:27] ▶
Does that mean they have like an ontological worldview, a map of what the aliens are,
[3:00:29 - 3:00:34] ▶
what their intentions are, how many races there are, where they're from,
[3:00:34 - 3:00:37] ▶
or their interdimensional extraterrestrials.
[3:00:37 - 3:00:38] ▶
I think maybe you get in a certain core circles and areas, they have better frameworks
[3:00:40 - 3:00:45] ▶
than, you know, people on the civil side do.
[3:00:45 - 3:00:48] ▶
What if it was Batel that came to you, Jesse Michaels?
[3:00:48 - 3:00:50] ▶
We need to have a talk, brother.
[3:00:50 - 3:00:52] ▶
We're in a hunger podcast.
[3:00:52 - 3:00:54] ▶
$5 million a year subsidized by Batel.
[3:00:54 - 3:00:56] ▶
I would never get like funded if the funding involves like steering the content.
[3:00:57 - 3:01:04] ▶
If it's like educational and like, you know, in order to like tell the truth about something
[3:01:06 - 3:01:10] ▶
and there was some like public private partnership, I would entertain it, especially if I could
[3:01:10 - 3:01:15] ▶
be open to that to the public and I wasn't like lying about that.
[3:01:15 - 3:01:19] ▶
Like I don't think like everybody in government's like a bad person or like I'm like, it's
[3:01:20 - 3:01:22] ▶
Um, but yeah, no, I wouldn't like, I wouldn't do some like intentional limited hangout
[3:01:24 - 3:01:28] ▶
Yeah, it'd be, it'd be an interesting bridge to cross.
[3:01:30 - 3:01:32] ▶
If the opportunity ever presented itself, I always think about that.
[3:01:32 - 3:01:35] ▶
Is that your pitch, Danny?
[3:01:35 - 3:01:37] ▶
You're like, you're like, just hit me up.
[3:01:38 - 3:01:41] ▶
Uh, yeah, would it matter because I mean, most people online already think that we're
[3:01:43 - 3:01:48] ▶
It's exactly, you have to people are like, it's easy to spook and he's funded by Peter
[3:01:50 - 3:01:53] ▶
Yeah, you're already, you're already, you got a uphill battle.
[3:01:56 - 3:01:57] ▶
That's an uphill battle for sure.
[3:01:57 - 3:01:59] ▶
And like, I don't know.
[3:02:00 - 3:02:01] ▶
I always just like, okay, don't trust anything I'm saying.
[3:02:01 - 3:02:04] ▶
And then like the people who do, like you're going to learn a lot of crazy shit because
[3:02:05 - 3:02:08] ▶
I'm revealing like really crazy shit stuff that I came to on my own.
[3:02:08 - 3:02:12] ▶
And honestly, I've lost, I put a lot of money.
[3:02:12 - 3:02:16] ▶
Like the opportunity cost involved in like, like going after UFOs.
[3:02:16 - 3:02:20] ▶
Like, I managed like nine figures of capital.
[3:02:20 - 3:02:23] ▶
Like I was investing a lot of money in a way that would have been like really good for
[3:02:23 - 3:02:26] ▶
If I wanted like a chill good life, like I had that like set up like I easily could have
[3:02:27 - 3:02:33] ▶
kept going on the path I was going on.
[3:02:33 - 3:02:34] ▶
Do some conventional venture fund.
[3:02:34 - 3:02:36] ▶
You know, have fucking cocktails, happy hour in LA, go fucking Beverly Hills Hotel and go
[3:02:37 - 3:02:42] ▶
to like, I could have done that.
[3:02:42 - 3:02:44] ▶
And I, and I decided to go like a way more massacistic route.
[3:02:44 - 3:02:46] ▶
Like you can call me whatever.
[3:02:47 - 3:02:49] ▶
It's not fucking that.
[3:02:50 - 3:02:51] ▶
How do you have time to do the investing stuff anymore?
[3:02:52 - 3:02:54] ▶
I honestly don't do that much of it anymore.
[3:02:54 - 3:02:56] ▶
It's like, yeah, it's like most of what we've done, like I'm managing up on, you know,
[3:02:56 - 3:03:03] ▶
like existing investments and just making sure they're going well.
[3:03:03 - 3:03:05] ▶
And I'm like in touch with the, you know, the fund managers that I've sourced as well
[3:03:05 - 3:03:08] ▶
as the companies themselves.
[3:03:08 - 3:03:11] ▶
And then occasionally if something jumps the bar and feels like a no brainer, I'll do
[3:03:11 - 3:03:14] ▶
a little bit of, I'll do diligence on like, you know, an early stage thing where it's
[3:03:14 - 3:03:18] ▶
more qualitative and not quantitative analysis and I'll do a deal.
[3:03:18 - 3:03:20] ▶
But it's like, I was deploying much more money three years ago than I am now.
[3:03:20 - 3:03:24] ▶
What is, to you, what is the absolute spookiest, darkest sinister theory about what these
[3:03:26 - 3:03:33] ▶
things are that you've heard?
[3:03:33 - 3:03:34] ▶
Uh, you may not believe, but that you've heard that you think may have, may have some
[3:03:34 - 3:03:39] ▶
little bit of merit.
[3:03:39 - 3:03:41] ▶
Like the one that you don't want to be true.
[3:03:41 - 3:03:43] ▶
Yeah, it's too dark.
[3:03:45 - 3:03:46] ▶
Yeah, it's really fucking.
[3:03:46 - 3:03:47] ▶
Well, like, I think somebody or because you just don't put it out there.
[3:03:47 - 3:03:50] ▶
I don't put it out there.
[3:03:50 - 3:03:51] ▶
Yeah, there are, well, there are probably good factions that are angelic, you know, to
[3:03:52 - 3:03:57] ▶
use a simple term and then bad factions that are demonic.
[3:03:57 - 3:04:01] ▶
And then what are the demonic things doing?
[3:04:01 - 3:04:03] ▶
It's like, maybe they're mining our attention, you know, like Robert Monroe, studied consciousness
[3:04:03 - 3:04:07] ▶
and, you know, Virginia as a institute, you know, that he started, you like, he had this
[3:04:07 - 3:04:12] ▶
And so maybe there's stuff like that going on where like, when you're in a zombie
[3:04:14 - 3:04:16] ▶
state, where does your consciousness go?
[3:04:16 - 3:04:18] ▶
Maybe that's sort of like a mining process.
[3:04:18 - 3:04:20] ▶
But then you look at like, you know, scapegoating cycles, like pagan scapegoating cycles and like,
[3:04:20 - 3:04:25] ▶
I don't know, you get in a weird territory and like, it's hard to, I don't know what the
[3:04:25 - 3:04:30] ▶
darkest, you know, theory is, but I think that the good ones are like, don't, don't interfere
[3:04:30 - 3:04:39] ▶
And you're more like, you're ascending to their level.
[3:04:41 - 3:04:43] ▶
And it's like a two way bilateral connection where like one of my favorite quotes is the
[3:04:43 - 3:04:50] ▶
world is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
[3:04:50 - 3:04:54] ▶
And it's like, there's once, if you can like, increase your own, you know, kind of spiritual
[3:04:54 - 3:05:00] ▶
sense and your knowledge and you can increase the purity of your intention, I think you
[3:05:00 - 3:05:05] ▶
get closer to truth around a lot of these things.
[3:05:05 - 3:05:08] ▶
And I think this idea, this bifurcation, this idea that it's just academic, wrote knowledge
[3:05:08 - 3:05:13] ▶
that you have to learn.
[3:05:13 - 3:05:14] ▶
And then this kind of, you know, spiritual sense, like that's totally different, like your
[3:05:14 - 3:05:19] ▶
own, you know, moral development as a person.
[3:05:19 - 3:05:21] ▶
I think they go hand in hand.
[3:05:22 - 3:05:23] ▶
And I think the more you do that, the more you have synchronicities, the more you get
[3:05:23 - 3:05:26] ▶
in touch, you feel this sort of angelic guidance in your life, the more you feel protected.
[3:05:26 - 3:05:32] ▶
And so I think whatever's good is like this kind of non-interferent initiation process.
[3:05:32 - 3:05:39] ▶
And then the bad stuff, you know, I don't know, in the world in which these beings exist,
[3:05:39 - 3:05:44] ▶
they're probably behind a whole lot of human affairs and they're probably stoking wars
[3:05:44 - 3:05:47] ▶
and causing violence and division and then you have to ask why and I don't know why.
[3:05:47 - 3:05:51] ▶
Well, I mean, why wouldn't they be like us, right?
[3:05:52 - 3:05:55] ▶
Why wouldn't there be good versions and bad versions?
[3:05:55 - 3:05:58] ▶
Yeah, you have good and bad humans.
[3:06:00 - 3:06:01] ▶
Have you ever seen a UFO in real life?
[3:06:03 - 3:06:05] ▶
See, that's the thing that I'm kind of like on the fence about.
[3:06:08 - 3:06:13] ▶
Because like, like me and you talk about this stuff all the time, but I don't know if I want
[3:06:14 - 3:06:18] ▶
to have any of these experiences.
[3:06:18 - 3:06:21] ▶
I don't know if I want to actually encounter this kind of shit in real life because I don't
[3:06:22 - 3:06:25] ▶
know how it affected me.
[3:06:25 - 3:06:26] ▶
I think that's totally valid and I definitely don't want to have an abduction experience.
[3:06:26 - 3:06:30] ▶
Like, I actually get, right, right.
[3:06:30 - 3:06:32] ▶
Everybody, I interview who's had an abduction experience.
[3:06:32 - 3:06:35] ▶
My buddy from Yes, Theory, Amar, Kendiel, who does a lot of the shows with me.
[3:06:35 - 3:06:39] ▶
I make him come with me because he's like this like positive energy, like protective
[3:06:39 - 3:06:43] ▶
energy bubble and I'm like, I get spooked.
[3:06:43 - 3:06:45] ▶
I get freaked out even with Whitley.
[3:06:45 - 3:06:46] ▶
I was a little freaked out.
[3:06:46 - 3:06:47] ▶
Dude, I've never been more terrified.
[3:06:47 - 3:06:49] ▶
Yeah, and he'll say stuff like, oh, people, he said it with you.
[3:06:49 - 3:06:51] ▶
I remember he said like people who are with me sometimes have like experiences.
[3:06:51 - 3:06:55] ▶
And I remember you're like, I don't want that.
[3:06:55 - 3:06:57] ▶
He's like, it might happen to you.
[3:06:57 - 3:06:58] ▶
He's like, absolutely, it'll happen to you.
[3:06:58 - 3:06:59] ▶
I'm like, please, no.
[3:06:59 - 3:07:00] ▶
He's like, okay, I'll tell him not to.
[3:07:01 - 3:07:02] ▶
No, I think, Annie Jacobson when she wrote a great book, The Phenomena, also I think
[3:07:04 - 3:07:10] ▶
she was like, she was talking to Jacques Delay and she was like, please, don't, I just
[3:07:10 - 3:07:15] ▶
don't want to get abducted.
[3:07:15 - 3:07:16] ▶
Like, I'll study this stuff.
[3:07:16 - 3:07:17] ▶
Once you start studying this stuff, you, the second you realize like a switch in your
[3:07:19 - 3:07:21] ▶
brain goes off and you're like, okay, this person's not crazy and they've been abducted.
[3:07:21 - 3:07:25] ▶
Like, this stuff's actually just real.
[3:07:25 - 3:07:27] ▶
Then it freaks you out because you're like, oh, am I, you know, so I feel that on the
[3:07:27 - 3:07:32] ▶
abductor, I don't want to get abducted, man.
[3:07:32 - 3:07:34] ▶
No, I don't want to ever see any of these things in my bedroom.
[3:07:34 - 3:07:36] ▶
But I do think there's a huge difference between that and like being inspired by some
[3:07:37 - 3:07:41] ▶
like cool craft in the sky.
[3:07:41 - 3:07:42] ▶
Like I think that's kind of chill.
[3:07:42 - 3:07:44] ▶
And for me, that was like a, that was like a beautiful, like, great experience.
[3:07:46 - 3:07:48] ▶
What did you see exactly?
[3:07:48 - 3:07:49] ▶
Although I will say abduction experiences, I think over 50% are often described as positive.
[3:07:49 - 3:07:54] ▶
So, or, yeah, over 50% are, are positive at least in the free Edgar Mitchell study.
[3:07:54 - 3:07:58] ▶
Because Whitley's is a horror movie.
[3:08:00 - 3:08:02] ▶
And a lot, again, if it goes back to that like droid gray thing where it's like, we do
[3:08:05 - 3:08:08] ▶
not fear, but then they're like bleeding everywhere and they like put a little thing in
[3:08:08 - 3:08:11] ▶
you and it's going to be black out.
[3:08:11 - 3:08:12] ▶
And it's like, oh, God, that doesn't sound good at all.
[3:08:12 - 3:08:17] ▶
My UFO experience, well, I had two that like really stand out and that are, what one was
[3:08:17 - 3:08:26] ▶
I talked about this on Julian Dory's podcast as well where it looked like a school bus
[3:08:28 - 3:08:34] ▶
Like, it was like nothing like prosaically that I ever see.
[3:08:35 - 3:08:38] ▶
And so that's why I'll call it a UFO.
[3:08:38 - 3:08:39] ▶
I don't know if it could have been aerospace, but it was hovering above the tree tops at
[3:08:39 - 3:08:44] ▶
And it was going across the tree tops and then the woman I was with, she said that she
[3:08:45 - 3:08:51] ▶
saw the thing like descend down like across the tree tops in Laurel Canyon.
[3:08:51 - 3:08:57] ▶
But what I saw was like it was like this, like kind of test a racked like rectangle shaped,
[3:08:59 - 3:09:05] ▶
like school bus like thing that like I've just never seen before ever and was so weird.
[3:09:05 - 3:09:10] ▶
And the way it came about was also weird too because aliens had just come up in our discussion.
[3:09:10 - 3:09:16] ▶
So it was like one of us was like, do you believe in aliens?
[3:09:16 - 3:09:19] ▶
And then it's when someone was like, yeah, I'm kind of super in aliens actually.
[3:09:19 - 3:09:22] ▶
I mean, there's things really interesting.
[3:09:22 - 3:09:23] ▶
And then I was like, I'd be interested to meet Nalian.
[3:09:23 - 3:09:26] ▶
And then she goes, it'll come when you least expect it.
[3:09:26 - 3:09:30] ▶
And this is the weirdest part of the stories we walk by a guy who has a metal detector.
[3:09:30 - 3:09:35] ▶
And it's like a little after sunset or sunset in Laurel Canyon.
[3:09:35 - 3:09:40] ▶
And it's like, why is he have a metal detector?
[3:09:40 - 3:09:41] ▶
He's like looking for something and says, it'll come when you, or she said it'll come
[3:09:41 - 3:09:44] ▶
when you stop looking for it.
[3:09:44 - 3:09:46] ▶
And he's like looking for a little weird.
[3:09:46 - 3:09:48] ▶
And that could be again me noticing too many patterns.
[3:09:49 - 3:09:50] ▶
Like then we walk and we just see this little clearing and then the thing goes over it.
[3:09:50 - 3:09:55] ▶
The color was a fuck.
[3:09:56 - 3:09:57] ▶
It was a gray metallic.
[3:09:57 - 3:10:00] ▶
And yeah, it was like seemed like, I don't know, wasn't making like enough noise where
[3:10:00 - 3:10:06] ▶
like the amount of weight that it was carrying, like you'd expect like an absurd amount of
[3:10:06 - 3:10:11] ▶
Like a patchy level, like 10 Apache level, you know.
[3:10:12 - 3:10:15] ▶
So super, super strange.
[3:10:15 - 3:10:17] ▶
And it was around a time in my life where I was experiencing a lot of kind of like
[3:10:17 - 3:10:20] ▶
interesting synchronicities and like things would kind of pop into, you know, that was
[3:10:20 - 3:10:26] ▶
when I was around the time when I met Diana Paisolka actually and like I started to kind
[3:10:26 - 3:10:30] ▶
of take, take more of a dive down the, down the rabbit hole.
[3:10:30 - 3:10:32] ▶
And the other time I was doing holotropic breathwork and silver lake with a friend, a friend
[3:10:32 - 3:10:38] ▶
who's, I won't out him, but he's a prominent investor who's like as irrational as it gets.
[3:10:38 - 3:10:44] ▶
Like he's actually really interested in like philosophy and, you know, academic science
[3:10:44 - 3:10:48] ▶
and stuff and like the way he'd describe his worldview is like the natural philosophers,
[3:10:48 - 3:10:52] ▶
like David Hume, super in a gnome chomp ski.
[3:10:52 - 3:10:54] ▶
Like he couldn't be more like the material world is what it is.
[3:10:54 - 3:10:58] ▶
Like he's kind of like a material world, like a materialist atheist, you know.
[3:10:58 - 3:11:02] ▶
And we had just gone surfing and then we're back at his spot and silver lake and I wanted
[3:11:02 - 3:11:07] ▶
to teach him holotropic breathwork, which is I love holotropic best.
[3:11:07 - 3:11:12] ▶
And he kind of like five minutes in, like your, your hands can kind of clam up.
[3:11:13 - 3:11:18] ▶
It's like a common thing.
[3:11:18 - 3:11:19] ▶
And like you get into like an interesting state and all of a sudden he looks up and he's
[3:11:19 - 3:11:23] ▶
Two metallic or like one above him, one above me.
[3:11:25 - 3:11:28] ▶
They look like they're way too high to be, you know, per se aircraft.
[3:11:28 - 3:11:32] ▶
I wouldn't be able to tell you like what, you know, 60,000, 80,000, but like they were
[3:11:32 - 3:11:36] ▶
high up and they were like bobbing like hovering.
[3:11:36 - 3:11:40] ▶
And he go, this is so funny.
[3:11:40 - 3:11:43] ▶
Like initially he goes, I go, what the fuck do you think those things are?
[3:11:43 - 3:11:47] ▶
And he goes, I thought that was, that must be one of those like deep black, you know,
[3:11:47 - 3:11:51] ▶
lock-eared crafts or whatever.
[3:11:51 - 3:11:53] ▶
And I'm like, interesting.
[3:11:53 - 3:11:55] ▶
And then a second later he goes, dude, those are not like over earth.
[3:11:55 - 3:11:59] ▶
How long ago was this?
[3:11:59 - 3:12:01] ▶
This either took, that was either the, the Laurel Canyon was 2020.
[3:12:04 - 3:12:12] ▶
That was either 20 or 2021, either late 2020 or early 2021.
[3:12:12 - 3:12:17] ▶
The only thing I've ever seen was with Chris Blitz, though.
[3:12:22 - 3:12:24] ▶
So you saw you, though.
[3:12:24 - 3:12:25] ▶
I mean, I don't think it was you.
[3:12:25 - 3:12:26] ▶
You don't think it was you.
[3:12:26 - 3:12:27] ▶
It was nothing like that.
[3:12:27 - 3:12:28] ▶
It was just like a ball of light.
[3:12:28 - 3:12:29] ▶
Like what he said, what he, the stuff that he summons.
[3:12:30 - 3:12:32] ▶
And he was trying to do it when you were with him.
[3:12:32 - 3:12:34] ▶
Yeah, he was praying.
[3:12:34 - 3:12:35] ▶
And do you, I don't know, like, okay, gun to your head.
[3:12:35 - 3:12:38] ▶
You're wrong if you, you know, you're wrong and you die.
[3:12:38 - 3:12:41] ▶
I think that that was like human aircraft or prosaically explained ball lightning or
[3:12:42 - 3:12:47] ▶
whatever or like some kind of celestial, like otherworldly thing.
[3:12:47 - 3:12:53] ▶
I would say if I had a gun to my head, I, I, my, my best guess would be that it's some
[3:12:53 - 3:12:59] ▶
sort of natural phenomenon that happens in the atmosphere that we just don't, that
[3:12:59 - 3:13:05] ▶
I just don't notice because I don't stare at the sky enough.
[3:13:05 - 3:13:08] ▶
And Steve and we're out there for two hours trying to find something with praying to
[3:13:09 - 3:13:12] ▶
And then we saw this thing.
[3:13:13 - 3:13:14] ▶
It was definitely not an airplane.
[3:13:14 - 3:13:15] ▶
I know it wasn't an airplane.
[3:13:16 - 3:13:17] ▶
What it looked like.
[3:13:17 - 3:13:18] ▶
It was a, it came off of the horizon.
[3:13:19 - 3:13:20] ▶
It was like a little ball of light came up off the horizon where the water met the, the
[3:13:20 - 3:13:25] ▶
And it came up, started going this way.
[3:13:27 - 3:13:29] ▶
They got really, really bright.
[3:13:29 - 3:13:30] ▶
They got really, really dim and then just fizzled out.
[3:13:30 - 3:13:33] ▶
So how, so how would you explain that from a scientific perspective?
[3:13:33 - 3:13:36] ▶
But it was just something like that like a like a bike ball lightning, some sort of
[3:13:38 - 3:13:40] ▶
atmospheric anomaly.
[3:13:40 - 3:13:41] ▶
But was there anything that would, you know, cause ball lightning?
[3:13:42 - 3:13:44] ▶
The science behind it.
[3:13:51 - 3:13:52] ▶
But like if I was to like, I know it was not an airplane.
[3:13:52 - 3:13:53] ▶
And the way it was moving was definitely showed that it wasn't an airplane.
[3:13:55 - 3:13:56] ▶
We saw airplanes that were flying.
[3:13:56 - 3:13:57] ▶
There were airplanes flying off the beach or off the ocean onto land to land in Tampa
[3:13:57 - 3:14:03] ▶
And then navigation lights flashing and stuff like that.
[3:14:04 - 3:14:06] ▶
were obviously following a specific flight pattern.
[3:14:06 - 3:14:09] ▶
And this thing was not doing that.
[3:14:09 - 3:14:10] ▶
Didn't have the flashing lights.
[3:14:10 - 3:14:11] ▶
It got brighter, dimmer, fizzled out to nothing.
[3:14:11 - 3:14:14] ▶
Came off the atmosphere.
[3:14:14 - 3:14:16] ▶
And so this is the horizon of the horizon down there.
[3:14:16 - 3:14:19] ▶
Whereas like, it's so dark.
[3:14:19 - 3:14:21] ▶
It's like, one more time.
[3:14:21 - 3:14:22] ▶
No, this is here, out here.
[3:14:23 - 3:14:25] ▶
There's something right on the water.
[3:14:26 - 3:14:28] ▶
That's what we're looking for.
[3:14:32 - 3:14:33] ▶
If you could flash for us.
[3:14:33 - 3:14:34] ▶
That's an airplane on the top.
[3:14:34 - 3:14:36] ▶
I'm getting it right there.
[3:14:38 - 3:14:42] ▶
Now let's go into the right.
[3:14:42 - 3:14:44] ▶
And now another one above it.
[3:14:46 - 3:14:47] ▶
Yeah, and it's zigzagging.
[3:14:48 - 3:14:49] ▶
That one fizzles out.
[3:14:49 - 3:14:50] ▶
I'm looking at this one on the left.
[3:14:50 - 3:14:51] ▶
It's called Bright Skin.
[3:14:53 - 3:14:54] ▶
Here, someone is look through this.
[3:14:55 - 3:14:57] ▶
That is definitely an orb.
[3:15:05 - 3:15:06] ▶
I'm tracking it here.
[3:15:06 - 3:15:08] ▶
Do you want to look?
[3:15:08 - 3:15:09] ▶
And then it fizzled out to nothing.
[3:15:10 - 3:15:12] ▶
Faded in and faded out.
[3:15:13 - 3:15:14] ▶
They were seeing it with the naked eye.
[3:15:14 - 3:15:15] ▶
I didn't see it until I put it in his little psionic camera
[3:15:15 - 3:15:19] ▶
thing that sees in the dark.
[3:15:19 - 3:15:21] ▶
But maybe it's something to do with that camera.
[3:15:21 - 3:15:23] ▶
But also they were seeing it with their naked eye.
[3:15:23 - 3:15:26] ▶
How do you explain that?
[3:15:27 - 3:15:28] ▶
I got to talk to somebody who knows about this stuff.
[3:15:29 - 3:15:32] ▶
I mean, I don't know.
[3:15:32 - 3:15:33] ▶
See how it comes off of the horizon like that though?
[3:15:34 - 3:15:36] ▶
Yeah, and is that against you?
[3:15:36 - 3:15:37] ▶
Yeah, because that's, is that water?
[3:15:37 - 3:15:39] ▶
Go to the very beginning.
[3:15:41 - 3:15:42] ▶
Move the controller too.
[3:15:43 - 3:15:43] ▶
So we can see the horizon.
[3:15:43 - 3:15:45] ▶
You know, it was like, how far away would you say that was,
[3:15:55 - 3:15:58] ▶
I think from our vantage point, the horizon
[3:15:59 - 3:16:02] ▶
is probably like three miles.
[3:16:02 - 3:16:04] ▶
We were like, how does that go to the right too?
[3:16:05 - 3:16:06] ▶
And then it kind of goes back.
[3:16:09 - 3:16:10] ▶
Like what flies like that?
[3:16:11 - 3:16:13] ▶
So I think there's something.
[3:16:14 - 3:16:15] ▶
There's definitely something to what he's doing.
[3:16:15 - 3:16:17] ▶
Like what he's doing is absolutely legit and real.
[3:16:17 - 3:16:20] ▶
I don't know how to explain it.
[3:16:20 - 3:16:21] ▶
Do you sense interesting energy when you're around him?
[3:16:21 - 3:16:23] ▶
Like do you just feel it?
[3:16:23 - 3:16:25] ▶
I don't know what to attribute that to.
[3:16:25 - 3:16:27] ▶
I don't know whether to attribute that to,
[3:16:27 - 3:16:28] ▶
whether I am just sort of being affected by the energy
[3:16:28 - 3:16:32] ▶
and that's just a normal thing.
[3:16:32 - 3:16:33] ▶
Like it's just his vibe that he gives off.
[3:16:33 - 3:16:35] ▶
And it's just affecting me, like affecting my soul in a way
[3:16:36 - 3:16:39] ▶
where I'm like, I'm in it and I'm believing it in the moment.
[3:16:39 - 3:16:42] ▶
I'm like, oh my god, wow, I'm just fucking blown my mind.
[3:16:42 - 3:16:44] ▶
Or like, like I said, is this something
[3:16:46 - 3:16:51] ▶
that you could just go anywhere and stare at the sky
[3:16:51 - 3:16:53] ▶
all night long and see this stuff all the time?
[3:16:53 - 3:16:56] ▶
That seemed anomalous to me at the very least.
[3:16:56 - 3:17:00] ▶
That doesn't seem like if you were to do some like meta study
[3:17:00 - 3:17:03] ▶
on like the probability of seeing that,
[3:17:03 - 3:17:05] ▶
even in a two hour period where you're staring at the sky,
[3:17:05 - 3:17:08] ▶
Now I'm not saying that that's definitely UFO and angel
[3:17:12 - 3:17:14] ▶
in orb, I don't know.
[3:17:14 - 3:17:15] ▶
But I think it's worthy of investigation.
[3:17:16 - 3:17:19] ▶
And then like the tractors would say that like maybe he said
[3:17:20 - 3:17:22] ▶
somebody up with a boat and a drone outside there,
[3:17:22 - 3:17:25] ▶
but like off the beach there.
[3:17:25 - 3:17:27] ▶
Do you got that vibe from him?
[3:17:27 - 3:17:28] ▶
No, I get, I get, you know, maybe everybody in the UFO world
[3:17:29 - 3:17:33] ▶
where a lot of people are credulous
[3:17:33 - 3:17:35] ▶
and high on the openness scale.
[3:17:35 - 3:17:38] ▶
I don't, from my conversations with Chris Blutz,
[3:17:38 - 3:17:41] ▶
I think he's a good person.
[3:17:41 - 3:17:42] ▶
And also, he had no idea where we were going to dinner that night.
[3:17:43 - 3:17:46] ▶
We just went to, I told him a random restaurant.
[3:17:46 - 3:17:48] ▶
I took him to on the beach.
[3:17:48 - 3:17:50] ▶
He didn't know where it was.
[3:17:50 - 3:17:51] ▶
And I said, or afterwards, I'm like,
[3:17:51 - 3:17:53] ▶
you want to go to the cross of the beach
[3:17:53 - 3:17:54] ▶
and see if we can do this.
[3:17:54 - 3:17:55] ▶
And he's like, oh yeah, let's do it.
[3:17:55 - 3:17:56] ▶
I got my camera with me.
[3:17:56 - 3:17:57] ▶
And his daughter and his wife and his wife were also there.
[3:17:57 - 3:18:02] ▶
Yeah, I don't think that's a hoax man.
[3:18:04 - 3:18:05] ▶
I think there's something going on.
[3:18:05 - 3:18:06] ▶
There's something going on in the wildest thing
[3:18:06 - 3:18:08] ▶
is all these people that are attaching themselves to him.
[3:18:08 - 3:18:10] ▶
Which is like the craziest thing.
[3:18:10 - 3:18:12] ▶
Where if, I mean, dude, like we're in like a Cold War with China,
[3:18:13 - 3:18:18] ▶
why would we be spending those sorts of resources
[3:18:18 - 3:18:21] ▶
on a guy who's seeing Orbs, you know,
[3:18:21 - 3:18:23] ▶
in North Carolina outside his backyard,
[3:18:23 - 3:18:25] ▶
if it weren't something actually kind of profound
[3:18:25 - 3:18:28] ▶
Because these guys were not just connecting dots here.
[3:18:32 - 3:18:34] ▶
Like this is like legitimate stuff.
[3:18:34 - 3:18:35] ▶
Like this stuff is all documented.
[3:18:37 - 3:18:39] ▶
The people that are visiting him and befriending him.
[3:18:39 - 3:18:41] ▶
Yeah, Jim Semy van is like very well respected
[3:18:41 - 3:18:43] ▶
Like he's like pretty, I think high up.
[3:18:44 - 3:18:47] ▶
And like he spent a lot of time with Chris Blutson.
[3:18:47 - 3:18:50] ▶
I think they're good friends.
[3:18:51 - 3:18:52] ▶
That combined with the fact that that video
[3:18:54 - 3:18:57] ▶
is completely unsearchable and one in an instant.
[3:18:57 - 3:19:01] ▶
That's why on YouTube.
[3:19:01 - 3:19:02] ▶
And we're like, I was good.
[3:19:03 - 3:19:04] ▶
Like after that thing dropped, I would go every day.
[3:19:04 - 3:19:05] ▶
You probably do this where you just,
[3:19:05 - 3:19:06] ▶
I searched Chris Blutson on YouTube every day
[3:19:06 - 3:19:09] ▶
for like the first week just to see where it was ranking.
[3:19:09 - 3:19:11] ▶
It was top for the first week.
[3:19:12 - 3:19:13] ▶
The day it dropped, you couldn't find it.
[3:19:13 - 3:19:16] ▶
You could go a thousand pages deep and never find it.
[3:19:16 - 3:19:19] ▶
It was just four, five or six history channel videos
[3:19:19 - 3:19:24] ▶
of him on the history channel.
[3:19:25 - 3:19:26] ▶
You want to know something funny?
[3:19:26 - 3:19:27] ▶
You could type in David Grush to this day.
[3:19:27 - 3:19:30] ▶
I'm not to toot my own horn,
[3:19:30 - 3:19:31] ▶
but that video I did with him is the best video
[3:19:31 - 3:19:33] ▶
And like, you can't find it.
[3:19:35 - 3:19:37] ▶
You could type in David Grush on YouTube
[3:19:37 - 3:19:39] ▶
and it's news nation, Rogan, a bunch of other things.
[3:19:39 - 3:19:43] ▶
And it's my thing is unsearchable.
[3:19:43 - 3:19:45] ▶
And in five days, six days got well over two million views
[3:19:45 - 3:19:50] ▶
and then it just got throttled.
[3:19:51 - 3:19:53] ▶
And I mean, working with yes theory on it,
[3:19:53 - 3:19:56] ▶
they have nine million subscribers on YouTube.
[3:19:56 - 3:19:59] ▶
And I'm showing them the stats,
[3:19:59 - 3:20:00] ▶
like the click through rate and average view duration.
[3:20:00 - 3:20:02] ▶
They're like, we've never seen anything this high.
[3:20:02 - 3:20:04] ▶
And like you watch it and it's like very watchable.
[3:20:05 - 3:20:07] ▶
And it's just in pot here.
[3:20:07 - 3:20:09] ▶
We're going through right now.
[3:20:09 - 3:20:09] ▶
It's like we're searching David with a C.
[3:20:09 - 3:20:12] ▶
But go to David, David GR USCH.
[3:20:14 - 3:20:19] ▶
Have you seen it before though?
[3:20:19 - 3:20:21] ▶
It definitely was it.
[3:20:29 - 3:20:31] ▶
And like I have an email chain with Google about.
[3:20:31 - 3:20:33] ▶
So like I have the receipts that it was unsearchable.
[3:20:34 - 3:20:37] ▶
This happened to my Whitley Strieber episode two
[3:20:37 - 3:20:39] ▶
but only for the first two weeks.
[3:20:39 - 3:20:40] ▶
After the first two weeks, they put it back.
[3:20:41 - 3:20:42] ▶
Well, also go on incognito.
[3:20:42 - 3:20:44] ▶
I do want to see if it's the same because open up in just because you've seen the video.
[3:20:44 - 3:20:48] ▶
Open up an incognito browse.
[3:20:48 - 3:20:49] ▶
Yeah, new private window, yeah, whatever.
[3:20:49 - 3:20:51] ▶
But you're saying that it can come off.
[3:20:51 - 3:20:53] ▶
Get off brave, get off brave, go to go to Chrome.
[3:20:53 - 3:20:55] ▶
Yeah, sometimes what they'll do is they'll make it invisible on search for the first
[3:20:56 - 3:21:00] ▶
two weeks when it's going to get shared.
[3:21:00 - 3:21:01] ▶
The most and go viral catch traction the most.
[3:21:01 - 3:21:03] ▶
Uh, after the first two weeks, you're already posted your next video.
[3:21:03 - 3:21:06] ▶
Then they'll put it back so they can plausibly deny the fact that.
[3:21:06 - 3:21:10] ▶
Okay. So we're good now.
[3:21:10 - 3:21:11] ▶
We're we're number two now type in Chris blood.
[3:21:11 - 3:21:13] ▶
So yeah, let's do that.
[3:21:13 - 3:21:15] ▶
Which is all it's been a year now.
[3:21:17 - 3:21:18] ▶
So it's not as relevant.
[3:21:18 - 3:21:20] ▶
But yeah, scroll down.
[3:21:20 - 3:21:22] ▶
That's my boy, Chris ran.
[3:21:23 - 3:21:24] ▶
You'll be able to you'll definitely notice it if it pops up.
[3:21:29 - 3:21:31] ▶
See, those history ones were the first ones to pop up last time.
[3:21:31 - 3:21:34] ▶
And you're just just nowhere to be found.
[3:21:34 - 3:21:35] ▶
And you know, it's funny.
[3:21:35 - 3:21:36] ▶
There was even a guy who re uploaded my full podcast on his channel with him reacting
[3:21:36 - 3:21:41] ▶
to it. That was popping up.
[3:21:41 - 3:21:42] ▶
Yeah, that was the same with the grush thing for me originally.
[3:21:44 - 3:21:46] ▶
It was like all these like analysis of the video videos were ranking high.
[3:21:46 - 3:21:51] ▶
It's now now go back to the top.
[3:21:51 - 3:21:53] ▶
And yeah, yours was like the first big one.
[3:21:55 - 3:21:56] ▶
Go back to that scroll of the very top.
[3:21:56 - 3:21:58] ▶
It's still the most viewed.
[3:21:59 - 3:21:59] ▶
I'm pretty sure go to the and get out of the search thing.
[3:21:59 - 3:22:02] ▶
See where it says filters on the far right.
[3:22:02 - 3:22:04] ▶
Yeah, filtered by most viewed.
[3:22:04 - 3:22:05] ▶
Yeah, it's probably.
[3:22:06 - 3:22:06] ▶
You count top right top.
[3:22:06 - 3:22:08] ▶
If you can't, yeah, if you count.
[3:22:09 - 3:22:10] ▶
Yeah, no, that's you.
[3:22:13 - 3:22:14] ▶
And you having your tags and stuff.
[3:22:21 - 3:22:22] ▶
You have like, of course, yeah.
[3:22:22 - 3:22:24] ▶
No, like I said, it was the number one search result for the first like two weeks.
[3:22:24 - 3:22:27] ▶
And then it's sweet.
[3:22:27 - 3:22:28] ▶
It's crazy to see my number two.
[3:22:28 - 3:22:31] ▶
Well, dude, I swear to God.
[3:22:32 - 3:22:34] ▶
No, I know I know the guy you two literally told me this.
[3:22:34 - 3:22:37] ▶
Yeah, he told you that exactly that mine.
[3:22:37 - 3:22:38] ▶
Like fell off a cliff.
[3:22:38 - 3:22:40] ▶
And I wouldn't do we completely invisible.
[3:22:41 - 3:22:42] ▶
One completely invisible.
[3:22:42 - 3:22:43] ▶
And then yes, theories.
[3:22:44 - 3:22:45] ▶
They said, okay, this is crazy.
[3:22:45 - 3:22:46] ▶
They say it's the best stats they have on any video.
[3:22:47 - 3:22:50] ▶
And it's one of their lower.
[3:22:50 - 3:22:52] ▶
It's like in the lower 25% viewed videos.
[3:22:52 - 3:22:55] ▶
He only has 1.1 million views, which for them is two point one point two or 1.1 million views,
[3:22:56 - 3:23:00] ▶
which for them is extremely low.
[3:23:00 - 3:23:02] ▶
Like they have crazy, crazy high viewed stuff.
[3:23:02 - 3:23:04] ▶
And the stats are like off the charts.
[3:23:05 - 3:23:07] ▶
So like they're also like super conspiratorial about them.
[3:23:08 - 3:23:10] ▶
And they're like the most like kid friendly, do good or like they're like the best vibes.
[3:23:11 - 3:23:17] ▶
And like it's like breaking rules.
[3:23:18 - 3:23:19] ▶
They're not breaking rules.
[3:23:19 - 3:23:20] ▶
And like when they're like, yeah, we're getting throttled like I'm like, I don't know.
[3:23:20 - 3:23:23] ▶
People, some people are speculating that the Trump thing is going to do like some sort of a trust
[3:23:24 - 3:23:31] ▶
bust on YouTube and force them to stop regulating this stuff so much and stopping on content.
[3:23:31 - 3:23:36] ▶
Well, dude, Trump made that like misinformation is bullshit.
[3:23:36 - 3:23:41] ▶
Like, you know, it's like this like speech or whatever.
[3:23:41 - 3:23:43] ▶
Like right when he got elected.
[3:23:43 - 3:23:45] ▶
Now I loved it to be on.
[3:23:45 - 3:23:46] ▶
Misinformation is so condescending.
[3:23:47 - 3:23:49] ▶
Who is the arbiter of misinformation?
[3:23:50 - 3:23:52] ▶
You've proven to be so incompetent in the context of the pandemic and COVID and all these
[3:23:57 - 3:24:02] ▶
other things like the history of American false flags.
[3:24:02 - 3:24:05] ▶
Why are you the arbiter?
[3:24:05 - 3:24:06] ▶
Well, like why BBC trusted news initiative?
[3:24:06 - 3:24:09] ▶
CNN, you can say what is misinformation?
[3:24:09 - 3:24:13] ▶
You don't think for yourself.
[3:24:13 - 3:24:14] ▶
Like it's ridiculous.
[3:24:14 - 3:24:15] ▶
So let everything out and let people decide.
[3:24:15 - 3:24:18] ▶
Let people decide what they think is bullshit and what they think is real.
[3:24:18 - 3:24:22] ▶
No, the the um, the Mike Ben stuff really illuminates all that disinformation,
[3:24:22 - 3:24:27] ▶
misinformation stuff and what they go to like other countries and like force them to regulate
[3:24:27 - 3:24:31] ▶
stuff and they basically hold the corporations like they pit them against like
[3:24:31 - 3:24:36] ▶
maintaining their monopolies overseas.
[3:24:36 - 3:24:38] ▶
Like, okay, well, if you're going to, if you're going to censor this stuff,
[3:24:38 - 3:24:40] ▶
we'll let you keep your monopoly in Europe, right?
[3:24:40 - 3:24:42] ▶
Like do that stuff is crazy.
[3:24:43 - 3:24:44] ▶
And speaking of the that in the context of the UFO topic, I should say the USAID funded
[3:24:45 - 3:24:51] ▶
We know that for sure.
[3:24:52 - 3:24:53] ▶
Ken Clippenstein came out with basically leaked Dave Grush's medical records.
[3:24:54 - 3:25:01] ▶
And and that is what like kind of marginalized Grush for a while.
[3:25:02 - 3:25:07] ▶
I mean, I think most people don't really like realize it's bullshit.
[3:25:07 - 3:25:10] ▶
I mean, the dude like it was an Afghanistan combat veteran was deployed and like his
[3:25:10 - 3:25:15] ▶
buddy like died next to him was like mortared instead.
[3:25:15 - 3:25:18] ▶
Like it's just fucked up like it.
[3:25:18 - 3:25:19] ▶
And that's what they're in like.
[3:25:19 - 3:25:20] ▶
So like, you know, when he would drink occasionally, he would like go through that.
[3:25:21 - 3:25:25] ▶
It would recentulate those feelings for him.
[3:25:25 - 3:25:27] ▶
And Ken Clippenstein who's working for USAID funded publication is leaking these medical
[3:25:28 - 3:25:34] ▶
records right after Grush testifies before Congress to discredit him.
[3:25:34 - 3:25:39] ▶
It's just weird, man.
[3:25:39 - 3:25:41] ▶
Feels really cordial.
[3:25:42 - 3:25:43] ▶
The USAID thing is like such a nuclear bomb for the government.
[3:25:47 - 3:25:54] ▶
Like that, that stuff is just bananas and how it's like you can't escape it.
[3:25:54 - 3:25:58] ▶
It's too big to squash.
[3:25:59 - 3:26:01] ▶
We've just been living in managed reality for decades.
[3:26:01 - 3:26:04] ▶
Spending spending two billion or how many billions of dollars on, on trans operas in the
[3:26:05 - 3:26:10] ▶
Ukraine and like all this stupid stuff they're funding everywhere.
[3:26:10 - 3:26:13] ▶
Ian Carroll has been doing a great job of talking about this stuff.
[3:26:14 - 3:26:17] ▶
This he does like crazy deep times.
[3:26:17 - 3:26:19] ▶
He was in all this stuff.
[3:26:19 - 3:26:20] ▶
Have you have you are you familiar with like the history of Google and Sergey
[3:26:22 - 3:26:27] ▶
Bren and like Google being incubated by the CIA and NSA?
[3:26:27 - 3:26:31] ▶
You were telling me some stuff here.
[3:26:31 - 3:26:34] ▶
I mean, I know that men X right was like the DARPA search engine that kind of
[3:26:34 - 3:26:42] ▶
dovetailed with Google.
[3:26:42 - 3:26:43] ▶
But otherwise I don't you tell me.
[3:26:43 - 3:26:45] ▶
So no, there's a I don't know much about it.
[3:26:45 - 3:26:47] ▶
Other than this like crazy article I read on it recently about this.
[3:26:47 - 3:26:50] ▶
I forget the guys named it was on sub stack, I think.
[3:26:50 - 3:26:53] ▶
And he wrote he did like a super deep dive and it's all connected to.
[3:26:53 - 3:26:57] ▶
Um, Sergey at Stanford was and the guy that he was working under were literally
[3:26:57 - 3:27:06] ▶
funded and visited the whole time and incubated by CIA and NSA people that were visiting
[3:27:06 - 3:27:13] ▶
him and like checking in on him with the search with the pay drank system and all the stuff
[3:27:13 - 3:27:17] ▶
and giving him stuff that was created by DARPA.
[3:27:17 - 3:27:20] ▶
Like it's all connected to DARPA and SAIC and like all this crazy military industrial
[3:27:20 - 3:27:27] ▶
So I say I see was you know, based in Palo Alto.
[3:27:28 - 3:27:31] ▶
So like it's a it's so like it basically where did you learn all this it from these up
[3:27:33 - 3:27:39] ▶
from the stuff that I read.
[3:27:39 - 3:27:40] ▶
And it's the implications of it is that Google was quite literally funded and created by
[3:27:41 - 3:27:46] ▶
So what does that even mean?
[3:27:48 - 3:27:50] ▶
Like how do you like well, you know, like Oracle's first contract was with the CIA.
[3:27:50 - 3:27:54] ▶
And like I do you think a lot of this stuff gets created in the black.
[3:27:55 - 3:27:58] ▶
Well, so it's like it's paleteer too, right?
[3:27:59 - 3:28:00] ▶
Like like like I understand that.
[3:28:00 - 3:28:03] ▶
I understand why you would want to create companies that you're literally you're doing
[3:28:03 - 3:28:08] ▶
Instead of creating a company and finding clients, you're you're finding a whole or you're
[3:28:10 - 3:28:15] ▶
finding a need that the government has a government who has billions of dollars in resources
[3:28:15 - 3:28:20] ▶
to invest in this stuff, find a way to do it better.
[3:28:20 - 3:28:24] ▶
And you're basically creating a company that already has a built in client, the US government,
[3:28:24 - 3:28:27] ▶
which is like essentially what Paleteer is, right?
[3:28:27 - 3:28:29] ▶
Or what Elon's doing with space.
[3:28:29 - 3:28:30] ▶
I think it's what it ended up becoming.
[3:28:30 - 3:28:31] ▶
I think originally it was like around like some of the fraud detection stuff.
[3:28:31 - 3:28:35] ▶
They were doing it paypal or whatever dovetailed with the software for Paleteer.
[3:28:35 - 3:28:40] ▶
And then I think the CIA became one of the first customers.
[3:28:40 - 3:28:44] ▶
But I don't think it was created in conjunction with.
[3:28:45 - 3:28:48] ▶
But I'm just saying if it was me and I was if I was one of these guys that was creating
[3:28:49 - 3:28:53] ▶
one of these crazy companies, right?
[3:28:53 - 3:28:54] ▶
That was doing surveillance and whatever the hell it does.
[3:28:54 - 3:28:58] ▶
Like I would say we have a huge opportunity to make millions of dollars off the government
[3:28:58 - 3:29:03] ▶
doing this stuff because we can do it better than they can do it.
[3:29:03 - 3:29:05] ▶
I think if even had guys in here like Andrew Bustamonte who literally said Paleteer
[3:29:06 - 3:29:09] ▶
is way better than all the stuff that we have at CIA.
[3:29:09 - 3:29:12] ▶
Like we use Paleteer.
[3:29:12 - 3:29:13] ▶
It works way better.
[3:29:14 - 3:29:15] ▶
So like it's a great business proposition to create a company like that.
[3:29:18 - 3:29:21] ▶
But like find out who wrote that article about Google.
[3:29:21 - 3:29:27] ▶
I think the I think the title of it was how Google made or no no it was how the CIA created
[3:29:27 - 3:29:36] ▶
And it's on the sub stack.
[3:29:38 - 3:29:39] ▶
I want to give this guy credit.
[3:29:39 - 3:29:40] ▶
There's a while you're looking that up.
[3:29:40 - 3:29:43] ▶
There was a project at DARPA called Life Log and it was like you know like networking
[3:29:43 - 3:29:49] ▶
all these people and like their friends and like their friend networks.
[3:29:49 - 3:29:54] ▶
And I think it was shut down in 2003 or four right before Facebook started.
[3:29:54 - 3:29:58] ▶
So I do find that kind of interesting too.
[3:29:58 - 3:30:00] ▶
But I don't I don't again I have no idea if there's a connection there.
[3:30:00 - 3:30:03] ▶
No, this isn't it Steve.
[3:30:05 - 3:30:06] ▶
It's you don't have to type in.
[3:30:06 - 3:30:07] ▶
Do you have been the sub stack after?
[3:30:07 - 3:30:08] ▶
Oh yeah, you did keep going.
[3:30:08 - 3:30:10] ▶
I mean the medium that's it.
[3:30:10 - 3:30:12] ▶
Oh, you can close that close that bottom thing and you'll be able to see who it's by at least
[3:30:17 - 3:30:21] ▶
How the CIA made Google by not not fees.
[3:30:23 - 3:30:27] ▶
This is mind blowing.
[3:30:31 - 3:30:33] ▶
There's two articles like a series of them.
[3:30:35 - 3:30:36] ▶
I can't wait to read it.
[3:30:36 - 3:30:37] ▶
Well, I always found it interesting.
[3:30:42 - 3:30:43] ▶
They were kind of I mean, it makes total.
[3:30:43 - 3:30:45] ▶
So especially with this node and stuff in 2013 like prison, bull run, all that stuff came
[3:30:45 - 3:30:50] ▶
And it's clear that the NSA just had like back doors into like all of these tech companies.
[3:30:51 - 3:30:56] ▶
And then they had they the NSA had a program I think at the time called heartbeat, which
[3:30:56 - 3:31:00] ▶
is like you can like basically query anybody's you know data or whatever like in like this
[3:31:00 - 3:31:05] ▶
like centralized database repository.
[3:31:05 - 3:31:07] ▶
So we know that that was a thing at the at the very least.
[3:31:07 - 3:31:11] ▶
I found it interesting when Google like as part of project maven like wouldn't work with
[3:31:11 - 3:31:17] ▶
the US government and then simultaneously they were going into China like that same year.
[3:31:17 - 3:31:22] ▶
And so there's like something I'm like how coordinated is this stuff and if it is coordinated,
[3:31:22 - 3:31:27] ▶
Are you talking about the thing where recently right where Google came out publicly and said
[3:31:28 - 3:31:33] ▶
that we're not going to work with the government US government to to it was some sort of like a
[3:31:33 - 3:31:37] ▶
part of some war they basically came out.
[3:31:37 - 3:31:39] ▶
Yeah, this was like a big public thing that interesting interesting.
[3:31:44 - 3:31:47] ▶
Well, they were the biggest donors to Kamala.
[3:31:48 - 3:31:49] ▶
So it's funny like we both you know are so dependent on YouTube and I do I'm like it
[3:31:55 - 3:31:59] ▶
does make me occasionally nervous because it's like it does I'm grateful to Elon Musk
[3:31:59 - 3:32:04] ▶
Who else was a huge donate to Kamala was what's his name Alex Carp?
[3:32:05 - 3:32:10] ▶
You know who that is?
[3:32:10 - 3:32:11] ▶
Now Alex Carp was the CEO of of Palantir of Palantir.
[3:32:11 - 3:32:15] ▶
That's really interesting.
[3:32:16 - 3:32:17] ▶
That I didn't I wouldn't suspect that he I mean I read that I read there's a New York
[3:32:18 - 3:32:21] ▶
Times piece that came out on him really recently.
[3:32:21 - 3:32:24] ▶
That's faster where they're interviewing him about this stuff and he's like he donated
[3:32:24 - 3:32:27] ▶
Yeah, he was literally saying in there how we donated millions of dollars to the Democrat
[3:32:28 - 3:32:34] ▶
the Democratic party and he's always described himself as a like left wing guy.
[3:32:34 - 3:32:40] ▶
Yeah, he's like super into Hagle and like you know very like a almost like a neo Marxist
[3:32:40 - 3:32:46] ▶
Yeah, but then it's also a repeater right there like really good friends like they've
[3:32:47 - 3:32:50] ▶
known each other forever since college from back in the day.
[3:32:50 - 3:32:52] ▶
Yeah, that's Stanford law I believe.
[3:32:52 - 3:32:54] ▶
Yeah, so I don't know.
[3:32:55 - 3:32:57] ▶
But he's also like he doesn't have any any sort of hesitation in in working with the
[3:32:57 - 3:33:03] ▶
US government to advanced American supremacy.
[3:33:03 - 3:33:07] ▶
Yeah, I think they're like mission in many ways just like they want to protect the free
[3:33:07 - 3:33:12] ▶
Yeah, and you know, I think they are responsible for a lot of you know big threats to the
[3:33:13 - 3:33:20] ▶
US you know going down and I think that's a pretty good thing.
[3:33:20 - 3:33:23] ▶
Yeah, yeah, I know I know there are a lot of conspiracies about them.
[3:33:23 - 3:33:28] ▶
Oh, there's so many conspiracies, bro.
[3:33:28 - 3:33:31] ▶
They're mostly and that's what the other people understand.
[3:33:31 - 3:33:33] ▶
It's like for me they're mostly a black box like I don't really like interact with right
[3:33:33 - 3:33:38] ▶
right right right too much.
[3:33:38 - 3:33:39] ▶
Yeah, yeah, I mean I met like you heard a Whitney web.
[3:33:39 - 3:33:43] ▶
Oh yeah, yeah, she goes deep on the page.
[3:33:43 - 3:33:46] ▶
She's like, dude, she like frustrates me because she's clearly really smart and showing a
[3:33:47 - 3:33:53] ▶
Yeah, like going deeper on like Epstein networks.
[3:33:54 - 3:33:56] ▶
Yeah, anybody else, which is epic.
[3:33:56 - 3:33:59] ▶
And then now she's like and now it's all you know, Peter and and Palantir, whatever
[3:33:59 - 3:34:04] ▶
it's like, no, it's not and your book is so convoluted.
[3:34:04 - 3:34:08] ▶
It's almost like if you wanted to sigh up to throw people off the trail for Epstein
[3:34:08 - 3:34:11] ▶
and be that book like it's so complicated.
[3:34:11 - 3:34:13] ▶
And again, I don't want to like it's it's an amazing I've tried to read it.
[3:34:13 - 3:34:19] ▶
And it does she makes all sorts of amazing connections.
[3:34:20 - 3:34:22] ▶
It's like a thousand pages long.
[3:34:22 - 3:34:24] ▶
And she's doing an amazing service, I think.
[3:34:26 - 3:34:29] ▶
And so like very net positive Whitney web, but like there's certain areas where like it
[3:34:29 - 3:34:35] ▶
feels like she's just anti like anybody who's rich and powerful like anybody like she's
[3:34:35 - 3:34:41] ▶
anti-Elon, you know, with all the stuff he's doing around free speech and the USAID and
[3:34:41 - 3:34:47] ▶
reading them out of our institutions like, who do you want to do that?
[3:34:47 - 3:34:49] ▶
You need somebody that powerful to do that.
[3:34:49 - 3:34:51] ▶
But ultimately like politics like is where like the battleground takes place and like
[3:34:52 - 3:34:57] ▶
And you need the people with who are the most powerful like who probably made certain
[3:34:59 - 3:35:02] ▶
expedient alliances to get to where they are.
[3:35:02 - 3:35:05] ▶
Like doing things to like get anything done.
[3:35:06 - 3:35:08] ▶
And I feel like she's super like if you if you are not yet so cynical and if you are not
[3:35:09 - 3:35:14] ▶
like, you don't pass on like crazy purity litmus test, you are the devil or whatever.
[3:35:14 - 3:35:18] ▶
You just say like look, yeah, like maybe everybody at the elite strata or whatever has like,
[3:35:19 - 3:35:24] ▶
you know, had to, you know, at times make unholy alliances.
[3:35:24 - 3:35:27] ▶
But like who side are you on?
[3:35:27 - 3:35:29] ▶
And I think I think like some real good is being done in this like new Trump admin and
[3:35:29 - 3:35:34] ▶
with with Elon and Tulsi and like Tulsi and RFK like, I mean, those those two specifically
[3:35:34 - 3:35:40] ▶
like really, I think we're on the side of truth when it was on popular, specific RFK
[3:35:40 - 3:35:46] ▶
I mean, I love that guy.
[3:35:47 - 3:35:48] ▶
So yeah, I'm a fan of Whitney webs, but I do think she could just be so like ideologically
[3:35:50 - 3:35:54] ▶
But yeah, I'm glad she exists.
[3:35:56 - 3:35:58] ▶
She's definitely, she definitely does good work.
[3:36:00 - 3:36:01] ▶
But like, yeah, that stuff gets the rabbit holes are never ending when it comes to that stuff.
[3:36:01 - 3:36:04] ▶
If you don't like, you know, you have to follow like, it's not just, it's not black and white,
[3:36:04 - 3:36:08] ▶
Like, you can't just, I guess you can.
[3:36:09 - 3:36:11] ▶
And anybody you want for anything and find out every bad thing that somebody has done.
[3:36:12 - 3:36:16] ▶
But anybody that recognized like the net positive that people are doing as well.
[3:36:16 - 3:36:19] ▶
Anybody at a certain level of power, unless it's like the Circus O'Lady who was like, you
[3:36:20 - 3:36:25] ▶
know, started from like with a homeless troupe of Circus or like the Patagonia founder.
[3:36:25 - 3:36:32] ▶
He like occasionally, you'll meet somebody where it's like, you got nothing.
[3:36:32 - 3:36:35] ▶
But like anybody in the elite world of business, politics, government.
[3:36:36 - 3:36:40] ▶
I can't name too many people where it's like there aren't certain things that you, you
[3:36:42 - 3:36:46] ▶
know, had to do, you know, and so it's, it's, it's, it's, it's human nature.
[3:36:46 - 3:36:51] ▶
Unfortunately, there's a political game that has to be played to get shit done in Washington.
[3:36:52 - 3:36:56] ▶
Like you have to play that fucking game.
[3:36:56 - 3:36:57] ▶
There's no way around totally.
[3:36:57 - 3:36:58] ▶
And I don't want to fucking do, I mean, that's a shitty, it's that being in politics now,
[3:36:58 - 3:37:04] ▶
like I grew up actually being like, maybe I'd want to be in politics when I was really
[3:37:04 - 3:37:07] ▶
I'm interested in politics and be cool.
[3:37:08 - 3:37:10] ▶
And then now I'm like, it's a selector for the worst people, just the worst like, just
[3:37:10 - 3:37:16] ▶
Like just spineless.
[3:37:18 - 3:37:19] ▶
Like the people who are just obsessed with optics.
[3:37:19 - 3:37:21] ▶
Yeah, it's weird shit.
[3:37:23 - 3:37:24] ▶
It's weird shit for sure.
[3:37:24 - 3:37:25] ▶
Well, dude, thank you for doing this brother.
[3:37:25 - 3:37:27] ▶
We almost said four hours.
[3:37:27 - 3:37:28] ▶
What time, your playing?
[3:37:30 - 3:37:31] ▶
Yeah, we got to end it right now.
[3:37:32 - 3:37:33] ▶
Jesse Michaels, thank you brother.
[3:37:35 - 3:37:36] ▶
That was fucking amazing.
[3:37:36 - 3:37:37] ▶
Danny, this was epic, bro.
[3:37:37 - 3:37:38] ▶
Um, um, American Alchemy on YouTube, AKA Jesse Michaels.
[3:37:39 - 3:37:42] ▶
American Alchemy on YouTube and then, uh, go to WOP.com, whop.
[3:37:43 - 3:37:48] ▶
W-h-o-p.com slash Jesse Michaels, Michaels with no A. And that's like my Patreon equivalent.
[3:37:48 - 3:37:53] ▶
Oh, we're going to do epic debates there.
[3:37:53 - 3:37:56] ▶
And it's going to be really fun.
[3:37:56 - 3:37:57] ▶
We're going to host all sorts of awesome conversations.
[3:37:57 - 3:38:00] ▶
And that's where you get like some really good stuff.
[3:38:00 - 3:38:03] ▶
We'll link it all by the way.
[3:38:04 - 3:38:05] ▶
We'll link it as well under Jesse Michaels.
[3:38:08 - 3:38:10] ▶
We got to do it again.
[3:38:13 - 3:38:14] ▶
Hey, I'm down next time.
[3:38:14 - 3:38:15] ▶
I'll bring you down when there's waves.
[3:38:15 - 3:38:16] ▶
Yeah, we got surf, dude.
[3:38:17 - 3:38:18] ▶