477 segments
I think when you play a meaningful part and bringing about the death with over a hundred thousand people in the entry of a comparable number, you don't think of that with ease.
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The whole point of the Doomsday Machine is lost.
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If you keep it the secret, why didn't you tell the world?
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On the 19th of May 1953, something extraordinary happened in the Nevada Desert.
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A new kind of nuclear bomb, codenamed Harry, was detonated at the Nevada Test Site.
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It unleashed 32 kilotons of energy twice the power dropped on Hiroshima.
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The military at the time was running Operation Upshot Knothole, a series of nuclear tests to study how the blasts affected homes,
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buildings, and infrastructure.
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But of the dozens of nuclear devices used, it seemed that Harry, which caused the largest blast, might have had an unintended side effect.
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One of the engineers on site studying all of this data was a decorated World War II veteran named Arthur Stancell.
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I can assure you that your name will not be used.
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The man had been working as a consultant on blast effects of atom bombs when he was suddenly ordered to report for a new mission.
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Along with 15 other specialists, he was ordered to leave his belongings behind.
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He was flown to Phoenix and transported on a bus with blacked out windows to a classified location near Kingman, Arizona.
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They were told a secret test vehicle had crashed. His job was to determine its impact velocity.
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Under the flood lights, he saw the most exotic craft he had ever seen.
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It looked like two deep saucers fused together, buried 20 inches in the sand.
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It was roughly 30 feet in diameter, made of a dull brushed metal material.
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It had no landing gear, no visible damage, and a small open hatch.
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Inside and nearby tent, a number of four foot tall humanoid figures laid out on a table.
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While all of this might sound unbelievable, more evidence of the Kingman crash surfaced recently.
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Former intelligence official Chris Melon revealed that this flying saucer had been recovered and studied over the decade since its retrieval.
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And Stansell himself was no random witness. His record is impeccable.
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He earned three purple hearts, a bronze star, and after the war began, he sustained a career in physics and engineering at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
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And a declassified report from Operation Upshot Nautilus confirmed Stansell was on site for the nuclear testing there.
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But it's the name mentioned alongside Stansells, the head of the special studies department at Wright Patterson, who is much more of a mystery.
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Dr. Eric Wang. Unlike Stansell, Wang left almost no trace in public records, despite having his name and name in the world.
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And now a civil engineering research facility at the University of New Mexico.
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Any other details about what else he might have been doing in his super secretive career are non-existent.
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Attempts to verify his background lead to nothing. No biographical details, no employment records, no published research.
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It was as if he had been erased from the records.
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The mystery of Dr. Wang was picked up in the 1980s by UFO researcher William Steinman.
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After months of searching, he finally found a clue. In obituary, in an old issue of a mechanical engineering magazine, it turned out that Dr. Eric H. Wang, born in 1906, had originally come from Vienna.
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In fact, he had graduated from Vienna Technical Institute, and there are suggestions that he was a contemporary of Victor Schauberger.
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The main rumored to have developed a revolutionary propulsion system, perhaps even conceptual flying saucers for the Nazis.
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Steinman discovered that Wang immigrated to the US before World War II, lectured at the University of Cincinnati, and eventually became head of the Department of Special Studies at Wright Patterson.
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In 1956, Wang's department was relocated to New Mexico to the Sandy Laboratories Complex at Curtlyn Air Force Base.
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Steinman hit another dead end, and despite being warned off this trail, he took a different approach. He tracks down Dr. Wang's widow, Maria, and that's when things took a turn.
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Maria Wang confirmed that her late husband had worked on classified projects at Wright Patterson, projects that involved technologists.
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She was a technology, not of this world. She went even further, claiming that before his death, Eric had confided in her that the US government was studying recovered extraterrestrial craft.
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But it was Maria's next revelation that was truly shocking. She said that her husband had reported directly to Henry Kissinger.
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Not only that, but that Kissinger was deeply involved in the flying saucer program. That Kissinger had overseen much of her late husband's work, and that he had even visited their home on occasion.
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Yes, Henry Kissinger, the same Kissinger that's one of the most influential and controversial figures in the 20th century.
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We believe that peace is at hand.
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National Security Advisor and Secretary of State under President Nixon and Ford, the Harvard Academic, nuclear strategist, the man who won a Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating the end of the Vietnam War, but who is also considered by many, a war criminal. That, Henry Kissinger.
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But if Maria Wang's claim was true, and Kissinger had worked with her husband before he died in 1960, that would have placed Kissinger at the center of the most secretive program in history before he had even entered public office. That is a huge claim.
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Is it possible that Henry Kissinger could have been overseeing the legacy UFO program?
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Next to the President of the United States.
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To understand that question, to investigate that claim, we need to take a few steps back.
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Because Kissinger's rise to power and possible involvement in UFOs didn't just come through academia. It started in Germany at the end of the war in Army Intelligence.
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Maybe you interview me.
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In today's world, staying informed can feel like navigating a maze of headlines, each with its own agenda.
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That's why I started using ground news, a tool designed for skeptics and truth seekers like many in this community.
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It's an app and website created by a former NASA engineer to tackle a problem we all face how the way we consume information can distort our understanding of the world.
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Ground news brings transparency to the news. It gathers coverage from over 50,000 sources worldwide, organizes stories by topic, and even breaks down the bias and ownership behind each perspective.
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With features like the bias distribution bar and factuality score, it's easy to see how different outlets frame the same story.
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For example, when I was researching those mysterious drone sightings, ground news gave me instant access to over 200 articles, helping me uncover every angle from the facts to the spin.
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For the left, from radar online, Donald Trump says, shoot them down.
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But on the right, news refers to it as a rogue loose nuke.
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It just goes to show how different the framing can be based on where you're reading it.
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So if you're tired of echo chambers and one-sided narratives, ground news is your ultimate tool for staying informed and making better decisions.
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Ground news, the truth is out there. You just need the right tools to find it.
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Henry Kissinger was born in 1923 in Germany to a Jewish family and emigrated to the US in 1938 to escape Nazi persecution.
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A gifted student he was drafted into the US Army during World War II where he fought in major battles, witnessed the liberation of a concentration camp,
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and was recruited into the counterintelligence corps or CIC.
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The CIC, essentially the Army's FBI, played a key role in post-war Europe securing Nazi technology, hunting war criminals, and safeguarding military secrets.
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It was deeply embedded in classified operations, including those connected to the Manhattan Project.
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It's also frequently mentioned in accounts of the Roswell crash and Majestic 12 Leaks.
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Kissinger was assigned to denazification efforts in occupied Germany.
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His ability to communicate with locals and manage post-war chaos earned him a reputation for confidence and diplomacy.
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At just 22, he was entrusted with overseeing the entire town of Benchheim, a role which provided him significant authority.
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Later, he was assigned to work in Oberammergau, a picturesque town in the Bavarian Alps with a lot of hidden significance.
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Oberammergau happened to be the location of a secret weapons facility that had been dug into the nearby mountains.
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The Messerschmitt design branch had been moved there during the war, and they were responsible for developing new jet propelled planes and radio controlled anti-aircraft missiles.
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Henry Kissinger was one of the first officers to occupy the barracks there in 1945.
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The timing of this assignment places Kissinger right in the middle of what was in the eyes of the US Army, a treasure trove of Nazi rocket scientists and researchers.
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Oberammergau was a crucial location for counterintelligence operations and the development of Operation Paperclip, the American program which secretly imported 1500 plus Nazi scientists.
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In fact, the designer of the V2 rocket and the future head of America's rocket program, Werner von Braun, had himself been apprehended by the allies at Oberammergau.
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You spend most of your time arguing with other people what the more important things are and you don't get a job done.
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He, along with some 400 other scientists, had been ordered to relocate to this area by SS General Hans Kommler.
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Kommler was infamous, not only for Israel and designing concentration camps, but for overseeing the Nazis' most advanced weapons programs.
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Alongside conventional rocketry and nuclear research, there were persistent rumors of more exotic experiments going on at the time.
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These experiments involved anti-gravity propulsion and flying saucer-like craft.
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Victor Schauberger, an Austrian scientist, had allegedly developed a craft with an anti-gravity effect that defied conventional physics.
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According to historian Nick Cook's great book The Hunt for Zero Point, CIC agents interrogated Schauberger for nine months, fully aware of his most classified work.
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They reportedly considered his discoveries more important than Nazi nuclear research itself.
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The technology they secured, Cook suggests, had characteristics of a UFO, a craft that seemingly defied the laws of physics.
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After the war ended, another Army CIC agent, Neil Gershimer, tricked Schauberger into signing all of his work over to the United States.
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The intellectual property around these exotic propulsion principles would end up at Brookhaven National Labs in Long Island.
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So this would infer that CIC agents of the same organization as Kissinger in the same field of operations had already gathered the intelligence to understand the secret program.
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If the CIC was actively collecting intelligence on this exotic technology, Kissinger would have almost certainly been aware of it.
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His assignment placed him at the center of the most sensitive intelligence gathering area.
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His credentials, relocation to Oberammergau, fluency in German, and his prior experience in arresting and questioning ranking Nazis in Benchheim.
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All of this would lead any reasonable person to believe that Kissinger was at least peripherally involved in managing the transition of these Nazi scientists and their secrets into US custody.
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Whether Kissinger knew about experimental propulsion or otherworldly technology remains speculative, but there is a distinct possibility that he could have been trusted with interrogating, translating, and negotiating these secrets with Nazi scientists as part of their passage to freedom in the United States.
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All of this at least places Kissinger at the crime scene, so to speak.
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So the question remains, what exactly did Henry Kissinger have to do with UFOs?
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Henry Kissinger enrolled at Harvard in 1947, balancing the life of a dedicated student with his ongoing ties to the counterintelligence corps.
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While his peers saw him as a reclusive bookworm, he remained close with his army colleagues and maintained an interest in intelligence operations.
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He graduated in 1950 as the Cold War intensified.
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The Korean War was underway. The Soviets had tested their first atomic bomb, and China had fallen to communism.
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Harvard played a prominent role in the co-mingling of the state intelligence community in academia.
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James Conant, Harvard's president from 1933 to 1955, was a key figure in the Manhattan Project, managing the delicate balance between scientists and the military.
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A close ally of Oppenheimer's and Vannevar Bush's, he played a central role in shaping America's atomic age, advising the Atomic Energy Commission and the Joint Research Development Board.
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Conant was second only to Oppenheimer as an advisor to the government on military and civilian applications of nuclear technology.
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He was a staunch cold warrior, setting Harvard's tone as an anti-communist stronghold.
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Another connection to the hidden UFO history was Harvard's top astronomer, Dr. Donald Menzel, a leading UFO debunker in the 1950s.
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He insisted that all sightings had natural explanations, but was he hiding something?
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Recent claims by astrophysicist Dr. Beatrice Villoriau suggest Menzel ordered the destruction of Harvard's astronomical photographic plates taken during the 1952 Washington DC UFO flap.
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He suddenly becomes the director of Harvard Observatory, and he destroys one side of the photographic place.
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He doesn't ask, as I understand from the record, the astronomers to select the plates.
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No, he asks his secretary to go and throw away one side of the plates.
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There's a woman Doritovlite that has been telling about this story in her memoirs.
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He started revinging on her later too, as I understood it, that she tried to protect some of the plates.
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He also threw away a number of the blog books.
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Adding to the mystery, Menzel was named in the MJ-12 documents as part of Truman's top secret UFO research panel in the late 1940s.
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Now there are definite issues with the MJ-12 documents, but there are core truths in those documents that have been corroborated by open source research.
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More on that later, another key figure, physicist Louis Brandscombe, earned his PhD from Harvard in 1949,
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and played a crucial role in the 1960s Condon Committee, which dismissed UFOs as scientifically insignificant.
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As director of the National Bureau of Standards, Brandscombe allegedly offered committee chair at word Condon a deal.
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Help bury the UFO question and get your security clearance back.
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There was a close relationship between the institutions of state power and Harvard hidden or not.
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For Harvard and Kissinger, serving the Cold War machine, whether through the Department of Defense or the CIA, was a patriotic duty.
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How might this have affected the hidden history?
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Well, potentially, any crash retrievals or advanced physics would have been tightly controlled under Cold War priorities.
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Seekersie was not just about preventing public panic.
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It was also about staying ahead in an existential battle with the Soviet Union.
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And while the Cold War never erupted into direct global conflict, it was still a war.
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Millions died in its proxy battles.
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For those shaping policy, it was just as existential as the fight against Nazis, only now with the added threat of weapons capable of ending civilization itself.
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For Kissinger, the apocalyptic stakes of the Cold War shaped his early career.
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Neil Ferguson's great biography highlights his deep interest in psychological warfare, the art of using propaganda, disinformation, and syops to manipulate adversaries and allies alike.
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In the 1950s, this meant undermining the Soviets without direct confrontation.
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Kissinger didn't just theorize. He put these theories into practice.
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He authored reports on psychological warfare, and with his mentor, William Elliott, launched a series of international seminars at Harvard.
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These gatherings, backed by the intelligence community, aimed to cultivate foreign intellectuals as allies of American influence.
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At the same time, Kissinger maintained direct ties to the CIA, including contact with its chief, Alan Dulles.
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So his transition from military intelligence to academia wasn't a break. It was a continuation.
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But Kissinger's influence extended beyond Harvard.
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In 1951, 1952, and again in 1955, he worked as a consultant for the Psychological Strategy Board and its successor, the Operations Coordinating Board.
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These high-level programs launched by Truman were designed to unify psychological warfare efforts across US agencies.
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A declassified CIA document reveals the Psychological Strategy Board's core mission, winning hearts and minds through strategic influence.
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More crucially, it highlights how only a select few were deemed capable of staffing this new psychological warfare oversight body, whether they were pulled from existing agencies or recruited from outside the government.
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Kissinger, it seems, was one of them.
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The Psychological Strategy Board, or PSB, also has strong connections to the hidden history of UFOs.
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Philip J. Corsa was a member, another CIC agent who went into government.
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He was on the staff of Eisenhower's National Security Council and eventually became the chief of the Pentagon's Foreign Technology Desk in Army Research and Development.
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Corsa went on to claim in his book, the day after Roswell, that alien tech had been recovered and reverse engineered from crash retrieval programs.
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Another PSB figure, Douglas Jackson, was special assistant to the president under Eisenhower.
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He served as liaison between the CIA and the Pentagon.
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By 1960, Jackson had moved into publishing, becoming head of Life Magazine.
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After Kennedy was assassinated, life acquired the Zapruder film, the clearest footage of the assassination.
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But instead of releasing it in full, they only published black and white stills with certain key frames missing.
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The moving footage was withheld for over a decade.
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Jackson himself died not long after.
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But his past intelligence ties raised serious questions about how the assassination was managed in the media.
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These examples show how the Psychological Strategy Board's influence could extend beyond psychological warfare into shaping public perception of major historical events.
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And in Corsa's case, how we went from the Army's CIC to a National Security position in government to knowledge of the UFO program.
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The PSB had no shortage of interesting figures, but it just goes to show how connected psychological warfare was to the hidden history of UFOs.
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This is best shown in a series of declassified CIA documents from 1952.
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One memo involving CIA director Walter B. Smith highlights the National Security Risk posed by flying saucers, not just as unknown aerial threats, but as tools that could be exploited by the Soviets to spread hysteria or disrupt air defense systems.
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The memo states the flying saucer situation contains two elements of danger, which in a situation of international tension have national security implications.
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Another document, this time from Smith to the director of the Psychological Strategy Board, notes that over 1500 UFO reports had been logged, 20% remained unexplained, prompting an urgent question.
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Could these phenomena be controlled, predicted, or even used in military or psychological operations?
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At this point, Henry Kissinger reenters the picture.
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Around this time, he was recruited to produce reports for the Army in Korea and Germany.
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He also became a direct consultant to the head of the Psychological Strategy Board himself.
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Gray was not a minor figure.
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A former secretary of the Army, he had oversight of psychological warfare strategies across multiple agencies, and he later chaired the committee that revoked Oppenheimer's security clearance.
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He also served as National Security Advisor under Eisenhower.
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His influence continued for decades, spanning the Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Ford administrations as a member of the Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board.
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Gray was as embedded in the security state as one could be, and perhaps unsurprisingly, he had connections to the UFO question.
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Is what is called the golden age of general relativity tied to these topics?
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Well, there's the explosion. There's a famous series, the author was Talbert.
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Ansel Talbert wrote an article for the New York Herald Tribune in November of 1955, while Gray was president of the University of North Carolina.
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The article's title? Conquest of gravity, aim of top scientists in United States.
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It details the efforts of numerous universities, companies, top physicists, and documents their prospects for studying and controlling gravity.
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A discovery which is of, quote unquote, tremendous import to the field of aircraft design.
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It also states that a proposal to establish an Institute of Pure Physics at the University of North Carolina to carry on theoretical research on gravity had been sanctioned by the Board of Trustees, which had the final approval of Dr. Gordon Gray.
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In 1956, this Institute of Field Physics at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill holds what's known as the Chapel Hill Conference, convening all of the world's top theoretical physicists to discuss gravity.
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This conference is sponsored by Wright Airfield.
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The head of the Institute of Field Physics, Agnew Bonson, is also funding mid-century inventor Thomas Townsend Brown, who is claiming to get successful positive results on gravity manipulation experiments.
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Gray was also named as one of the advisors on the top secret research and development organization established by Truman as it appears in the leaked Majestic 12 documentation.
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His deep ties to the military, psychological warfare, government and academia, on top of this link to gravity research.
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This makes a very plausible case that he would have been read in to high level UFO programs.
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So remember, these are the circles that Kissinger was moving in while he was still a graduate student.
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He wasn't just another Harvard intellectual.
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He was corresponding with CIA director Alan Dulles, consulting with Gordon Gray at the Psychological Strategy Board, and networking with the power brokers shaping Cold War intelligence.
[0:24:53 - 0:25:03] ▶
All of this on top of his CIC work in Germany, managing the transition of Nazi scientists, and possibly their exotic propulsion research.
[0:25:03 - 0:25:12] ▶
Once Kissinger got his PhD, these ties were developed further, in tandem with his academic development.
[0:25:12 - 0:25:18] ▶
In 1955, Kissinger started to write critically of Eisenhower's nuclear strategy of massive retaliation.
[0:25:18 - 0:25:25] ▶
It was the threat of responding to an attack, conventional or nuclear, with an immediate all-out nuclear barrage.
[0:25:25 - 0:25:32] ▶
Kissinger claimed this was outdated now that the Soviets maintained their own substantial nuclear arsenal.
[0:25:32 - 0:25:37] ▶
He argued that the United States should be ready to fight limited, localized nuclear wars.
[0:25:37 - 0:25:42] ▶
His writing was noticed, and he was invited by McGeorge Bundy, a colleague and professor at Harvard at this time, to work with the Council on Foreign Relations.
[0:25:42 - 0:25:51] ▶
The CFR, a private organization tied to elite circles of business, government and academia, was accrucible for Cold War policy.
[0:25:51 - 0:25:59] ▶
Much like a think tank, it served as a discussion club of the most powerful and successful leaders and well-connected figures of foreign affairs.
[0:25:59 - 0:26:07] ▶
Walter Isaacson's biography of Kissinger describes the most exalted enterprises of the CFR to be the so-called study groups,
[0:26:07 - 0:26:15] ▶
where around a dozen or so distinguished individuals and wise men met regularly over the course of 12 months to explore a particular subject in depth.
[0:26:15 - 0:26:25] ▶
Each group had a study director, usually an up-and-coming academic, who would collate their discussions into something that may or may not be disseminated to government or the public.
[0:26:25 - 0:26:36] ▶
For example, McGeorge Bundy was a part of a study group in the late 1940s that examined Marshal Plan A to Europe.
[0:26:36 - 0:26:43] ▶
Some of its members should sound familiar.
[0:26:43 - 0:26:45] ▶
Eisenhower before his presidency was involved, along with future CIA director Alan Dulles, and future CIA deputy director Richard M. Bissill.
[0:26:45 - 0:26:54] ▶
Also contributing was George F. Kenan, just after writing his famous long telegram under the pen name X, which shaped Cold War policy of containing Soviet communism.
[0:26:54 - 0:27:04] ▶
So the who's who of international diplomacy?
[0:27:04 - 0:27:07] ▶
Flick open your modern history of the United States, and these guys are all over it.
[0:27:07 - 0:27:12] ▶
And as far as the hidden UFO history goes, aside from the obvious links to someone like Eisenhower and the possible Majestic 12 Advisory Board,
[0:27:12 - 0:27:20] ▶
you've also got Richard Bissill, whose spearheaded developments in American reconnaissance aircraft like the U2 and its successor, the SR-71.
[0:27:20 - 0:27:29] ▶
He knew his way around Area 51, and he was famously named by presidential adviser Harold Moundgren, as being the person who had briefed Moundgren on other world technologies.
[0:27:29 - 0:27:40] ▶
In 1955, Kissinger was invited to direct a council on foreign relations study group on nuclear war and foreign policy.
[0:27:40 - 0:27:51] ▶
He was briefed by Robert Oppenheimer himself, and instructed to turn the findings into a book.
[0:27:51 - 0:27:56] ▶
The group was chaired by Gordon Dean, former head of the Atomic Energy Commission, and included top military officials, government insiders, and scientists.
[0:27:56 - 0:28:05] ▶
The resulting book, Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy, was a breakthrough.
[0:28:06 - 0:28:10] ▶
Oppenheimer called it extraordinarily well informed, and it launched Kissinger into the public eye.
[0:28:10 - 0:28:15] ▶
By the end of the decade, he was advising the joint chiefs of staff in making regular TV appearances as a nuclear strategy expert.
[0:28:15 - 0:28:22] ▶
Before the book was even published, Kissinger had been pulled into even more elite circles.
[0:28:22 - 0:28:28] ▶
He was approached by one of the most powerful names in America, Nelson Rockefeller.
[0:28:28 - 0:28:33] ▶
At the time, Rockefeller was serving as an adviser to President Eisenhower, tasked with countering Soviet influence in psychological warfare and beyond.
[0:28:33 - 0:28:42] ▶
After Stalin's death in 1953, US officials worried about a Soviet peace offensive aimed at undermining US military power, sewing discord among allies, and backing revolutionary movements in the developing world.
[0:28:42 - 0:28:56] ▶
Rockefeller's job was to counter this, and he formed his own expert panel to strategize for the president.
[0:28:56 - 0:29:02] ▶
Kissinger was brought in alongside military leaders, academics, and private sector figures.
[0:29:02 - 0:29:07] ▶
The group first met at Quantico, Virginia, to draft reports for Eisenhower.
[0:29:07 - 0:29:12] ▶
This was Kissinger's first collaboration with Rockefeller, but far from his last.
[0:29:12 - 0:29:16] ▶
Two years later, he would serve as the director for the Rockefeller Brothers Fund Special Studies Project, a panel on US International Security Objectives and strategy that included Edward Teller.
[0:29:16 - 0:29:27] ▶
Kissinger and Teller would work closely together on a number of occasions afterwards.
[0:29:27 - 0:29:31] ▶
Teller was key to the Manhattan Project. He was the inventor of the hydrogen bomb, and was named in a document written by Australian nuclear physicist Harry Turner.
[0:29:31 - 0:29:40] ▶
This report, on behalf of Australian intelligence, aimed to investigate what the US had been studying when it came to UFOs.
[0:29:40 - 0:29:47] ▶
Nobody in conventional national security circles disputes this report. It steamed valid as a very real document.
[0:29:47 - 0:29:54] ▶
And Harry Turner definitely led all nuclear efforts for the Australian Joint Intelligence Organization, which is basically Australia's CIA.
[0:29:54 - 0:30:02] ▶
Turner stated that Edward Teller was working with others on the objective to control gravity.
[0:30:02 - 0:30:08] ▶
So we have yet another close associate of Kissinger being implicated in the hidden history of science and perhaps tech behind UFOs.
[0:30:08 - 0:30:16] ▶
By the late 1950s, Kissinger was a tenured Harvard professor, a trusted advisor to the military and government, and a rising public intellectual.
[0:30:16 - 0:30:25] ▶
But his official assent leaves room for this hidden history to press against it.
[0:30:25 - 0:30:29] ▶
Just to recall, Maria Wings claimed that her husband had worked directly under Kissinger, who was in some capacity involved in the UFO program by this time.
[0:30:29 - 0:30:38] ▶
This is tangential, but there is at least one document I was able to find that connects Kissinger to the world of crash retrievals.
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A redacted history of Sandial Laboratories in New Mexico notes that Don Cotter, who was later a Nixon administration advisor on atomic energy and assistant to the Secretary of Defense.
[0:31:48 - 0:32:00] ▶
While Cotter had been promoted in 1961 to oversee advanced research at Curtlyn Air Force Base.
[0:32:00 - 0:32:06] ▶
As part of his work, Cotter organized interdisciplinary seminars featuring noted international experts and specialists.
[0:32:06 - 0:32:13] ▶
One of them, Henry Kissinger.
[0:32:13 - 0:32:16] ▶
We also know that in 1962, as part of the Bluegill Triple Prime Test in the Pacific, one detonation reportedly downed a UFO.
[0:32:16 - 0:32:26] ▶
Craft was then recovered and sent to the Albuquerque Operations Office, which oversaw Los Alamos in Sandial Labs at Curtlyn Air Force Base.
[0:32:26 - 0:32:34] ▶
Who was in charge of that office? Lawrence Preston Geiss, better known as Jeff Bezos' maternal grandfather, who also worked for the Atomic Energy Commission.
[0:32:34 - 0:32:43] ▶
Harold Malmgren was presidential advisor for JFK at the time, and he was in charge of White House efforts around this Bluegill Triple Prime Test.
[0:32:43 - 0:32:51] ▶
And in the Navy deck logs of the ships associated with the Bluegill Triple Prime Test, you can see that anomalous debris came out of the plume of this blast and was recovered.
[0:32:52 - 0:33:02] ▶
The anomalous debris was then sent to New Mexico to be taken charge of by Lawrence Preston Geiss.
[0:33:02 - 0:33:08] ▶
So given that Harold Malmgren was in charge of the nuclear test for the White House, he decided to scope things out with Lawrence Preston Geiss.
[0:33:08 - 0:33:16] ▶
According to Malmgren, Geiss was directly involved in reverse engineering recovered craft in this exact period, so Malmgren went to go meet Geiss in New Mexico.
[0:33:16 - 0:33:26] ▶
And according to Malmgren's tweets, Geiss was directly involved in reverse engineering recovered craft in this exact period.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:34] ▶
So another UFO crash retrieval was tied to Sandial Labs where Dr. Wang worked and where Kissinger is connected.
[0:33:34 - 0:33:40] ▶
But the questions still exist. Was Kissinger aware of any active UFO programs? Was he actively managing them?
[0:33:40 - 0:33:48] ▶
At this point, discussing whether Kissinger was involved in a UFO program inevitably leads us to the leaked documents that have pointed to the existence of the Majestic 12.
[0:33:48 - 0:33:58] ▶
Now I know some of you might already have strong opinions about the MJ-12 docs, but I just want to remind viewers that it's not just one thing.
[0:33:58 - 0:34:06] ▶
It's a collection of over 3,000 pages from different eras leaked over decades. Yes, some of these could be forgery. Some of these could be purposeful misinformation, part of a limited hangout strategy.
[0:34:06 - 0:34:17] ▶
But that doesn't make the whole thing invalid. If we can sift through the evidence, you can find some really significant details and other details that are corroborated by open source research.
[0:34:17 - 0:34:28] ▶
Take for example a leaked MJ-12 document from 1995 recently discussed by Ross Kohlthart on news nation with former Australian intelligence officer Jeff Krueckschenk.
[0:34:28 - 0:34:38] ▶
It details a top secret request from President John F. Kennedy to CIA director Alan Dulles on June 28, 1961.
[0:34:38 - 0:34:46] ▶
In it, JFK asks for a review of MJ-12 intelligence operations as they relate to Cold War psychological warfare. Skeptics might dismiss this, but here's where it gets interesting.
[0:34:46 - 0:34:57] ▶
A document was released in the 2022 JFK files, revealing Dulles had actually scheduled something very interesting for that day.
[0:34:57 - 0:35:05] ▶
Something completely unknown to the public in 1995. The document showed two meetings between Dulles and JFK on June 28, 1961.
[0:35:05 - 0:35:15] ▶
A fact that would have been impossible for a forger to predict decades earlier upon release of the MJ-12 documents.
[0:35:15 - 0:35:22] ▶
So there's a document in the MJ-12 files, these very disputed MJ-12 files, which has that date of the 28th of June 1961, correct?
[0:35:22 - 0:35:34] ▶
Yep, that's correct. And that's the date of a meeting between the CIA director Alan Dulles and President John F. Kennedy.
[0:35:34 - 0:35:42] ▶
Now, nobody, nobody knew about that meeting until that diary was declassified in 2022.
[0:35:43 - 0:35:53] ▶
This isn't the only MJ-12 document with verifiable details. Others contain obscure, hard-to-fake markings in marginalia that experts have analyzed as authentic.
[0:35:54 - 0:36:04] ▶
This is similar to the Bob Lazar story, which I have reported on ad nauseam.
[0:36:04 - 0:36:08] ▶
If it weren't for Bob Lazar, we might still not know that Area 51 exists.
[0:36:08 - 0:36:13] ▶
But there are a lot of reasons to believe that aspects of the Bob Lazar story were pushed out as passage material.
[0:36:13 - 0:36:20] ▶
Let's get back to the MJ-12. For the sake of those watching that might be new to this topic, let's quickly sketch out a picture of what the MJ-12 is.
[0:36:20 - 0:36:28] ▶
Allegedly, the Majestic-12 was a secret committee formed by President Truman in 1947 to handle the extraterrestrial issue.
[0:36:29 - 0:36:38] ▶
It included top scientists, military leaders, and government officials, figures like Vannevar Bush, Gordon Gray, Donald Menzel, and even Eisenhower.
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All names we've already discussed.
[0:36:47 - 0:36:49] ▶
But regardless of the reliability of any one document, consider the bigger picture.
[0:36:49 - 0:36:54] ▶
MJ-12 was supposed to have been created at the same time the Truman administration was facing an entirely new existential threat, nuclear weapons.
[0:36:54 - 0:37:04] ▶
The atomic bomb changed the course of history. It reshaped humanity's relationship with extinction itself.
[0:37:04 - 0:37:11] ▶
There was a pre-nuclear world and a post-nuclear world.
[0:37:11 - 0:37:14] ▶
So how did the government respond?
[0:37:14 - 0:37:17] ▶
By forming classified interdisciplinary groups to study the issue, advise the military and government, and develop strategies for managing the risks of this new era.
[0:37:17 - 0:37:27] ▶
Okay, that seems pretty logical. Now if anything truly extraordinary happened at, say, Roswell, what would you expect the government to do?
[0:37:27 - 0:37:37] ▶
Well, you'd probably expect them to establish a classified interdisciplinary team to research the phenomenon, its implications.
[0:37:37 - 0:37:45] ▶
Learn what they could about any strategic advantages and decide what, if anything, the public should know about the topic.
[0:37:45 - 0:37:52] ▶
Whether or not it was called MJ-12, the idea that a structured oversight body existed is entirely consistent with how the US government responded to other world-changing events.
[0:37:52 - 0:38:03] ▶
Other documents on top of Delos' schedule, like the Eisenhower brief, have been fully verified by open source research.
[0:38:03 - 0:38:10] ▶
And that brings us back to Kissinger. If such a program existed, and if it evolved over the decades from how it was supposedly set up in the 1940s, how would somebody like Kissinger fit in?
[0:38:10 - 0:38:23] ▶
Kissinger's early career placed him in positions that directly intersected with the roles described in the MJ-12 documents.
[0:38:23 - 0:38:31] ▶
His time within the counterintelligence court during and after World War II positioned him within an intelligence network that was deeply involved in early crash retrievals, and the exploitation of Nazi scientific expertise through programs like Operation Paperclip.
[0:38:31 - 0:38:46] ▶
Leaked MJ-12 memos from the 1940s reference CIC involvement in UFO investigations, including Roswell.
[0:38:46 - 0:38:54] ▶
When Kissinger returned to Harvard at the end of the war, it's plausible that he did so with intelligence ties and some knowledge of secret technology programs.
[0:38:54 - 0:39:03] ▶
If Kissinger's connection to MJ-12 deepened, it likely happened in the mid-1950s when his role shifted from academia to directly shaping government policy.
[0:39:03 - 0:39:13] ▶
His invitation to the Council on Foreign Relations study group on nuclear strategy placed him alongside figures like Robert Oppenheimer and Gordon Dean.
[0:39:13 - 0:39:21] ▶
Key players in both nuclear policy and potentially the UFO issue. For Kissinger to be included in these discussions, he would have needed a high security clearance.
[0:39:21 - 0:39:31] ▶
Could the UFO question have been part of their classified deliberations? While there's no direct proof, the overlap of names between the CFR study groups and MJ-12 suggest they operated in adjacent circles.
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Kissinger's role in Nelson Rockefeller Special Studies project further cemented his position.
[0:39:44 - 0:39:49] ▶
Rockefeller and Eisenhower advisor led US efforts to counter Soviet influence through strategic initiatives.
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This think tank included many figures from Kissinger's CFR group, creating potential crossovers between official policy and classified programs.
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We must assume that Rockefeller had some connection to MJ-12 by this point too.
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In fact, Detlev Brank, who is the president of the Rockefeller Foundation, was named as one of the Majestic-12.
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And this whole suggestion is not that the MJ-12 was a static organization.
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It may have evolved in this period from a small Truman-era committee to a more structured program under Eisenhower, and elite think tanks like these may have served as its intellectual and strategic backbone.
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This also raises the question, was this the moment private industry was led in on the secret?
[0:40:32 - 0:40:37] ▶
By the late 1950s, the US government was increasingly outsourcing classified research to private aerospace and defense contractors.
[0:40:37 - 0:40:44] ▶
If MJ-12 or its successor wanted to study in a reverse engineer UFO materials while avoiding congressional oversight, compartmentalizing the work within private corporations would have been the ideal method.
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This shift would implicate Kissinger throughout his close ties to Rockefeller, both in think tanks and on his presidential campaigns.
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Many of the special studies projects' key recommendations were integrated into Eisenhower's policies, appearing in his 1958 state of the Union address.
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Yet much of its classified output remains locked in Rockefeller's archive center.
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Depending on where you look, you'll find different claims about Kissinger's involvement.
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Some argue that he was bought by the Rockefeller's early on, particularly through a grant he received while earning his PhD, and that his Harvard career was merely a cover for deeper intelligence work advising MJ-12 through a specialized think tank known as PI-40.
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Others suggest that MJ-12 and PI-40 were interchangeable names for the same group, which evolved over decades but remained embedded in the US national security structure.
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Even if we stay skeptical about the MJ-12 documents themselves, the broader logic of their existence makes sense within Cold War power structures.
[0:41:49 - 0:41:58] ▶
If a secret UFO study group existed, whether called MJ-12 or something else, Kissinger's career trajectory places him squarely within the network of individuals likely to have been involved.
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Before making any definitive claims about Kissinger's role in MJ-12 or the UFO program, one thing is certain.
[0:42:10 - 0:42:17] ▶
Before he ever entered a presidential administration, he operated within a deeply secretive strata of power.
[0:42:17 - 0:42:24] ▶
His rise to one of the highest positions in the country may not be unconnected to the relationships he had built since his time as a CIC agent.
[0:42:24 - 0:42:32] ▶
In the 1960 election, John F. Kennedy narrowly defeated Richard Nixon.
[0:42:32 - 0:42:37] ▶
While Kissinger is now mainly associated with Nixon's legacy, it is often overlooked that he also worked under Kennedy.
[0:42:37 - 0:42:44] ▶
Kennedy's administration was filled with elite thinkers from different political and industry backgrounds, including several who had worked on Rockefeller's Special Studies project like Kissinger.
[0:42:44 - 0:42:54] ▶
Despite working on Rockefeller's presidential run, writing speeches and giving advice, he had been approached by the Kennedy team in 1958 to discuss long-range problems and weapons evaluation.
[0:42:54 - 0:43:05] ▶
Officially, he was consulting the White House on nuclear weapons in Germany, but he remained close to Rockefeller, seeing him as a future presidential contender.
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The rest of his time was spent teaching at Harvard.
[0:43:14 - 0:43:17] ▶
It was in this period that he cemented his staunch anti-communist stance.
[0:43:17 - 0:43:21] ▶
As Neil Ferguson recounts, Kissinger saw nuclear weapons not as a curse, but as a potential safeguard for civilization.
[0:43:21 - 0:43:28] ▶
His view was that tactical nuclear weapons could and should be used to deter communism.
[0:43:28 - 0:43:34] ▶
This willingness to prioritize strategic concerns over morality characterized his entire approach to global problems.
[0:43:34 - 0:43:41] ▶
If he applied the same logic to UFOs, he may have viewed them as another stabilizing element that required secrecy and control.
[0:43:41 - 0:43:49] ▶
It was also during this period in Kennedy's presidency that the Cold War had reached a boiling point.
[0:43:49 - 0:43:55] ▶
The Bay of Pigs disaster in 1961 led to the outsting of CIA director Alan Delas and deputy director Richard Bissell.
[0:43:55 - 0:44:03] ▶
Bissell notably didn't fade into obscurity.
[0:44:03 - 0:44:06] ▶
This raises a question, how many others, sideline from their official positions, continued to operate within the hidden world of UFO programs?
[0:44:06 - 0:44:15] ▶
In Bissell's case, the rumor was he left work at the CIA on Friday and on Monday he returned because he was too indispensable to certain activities he was involved in.
[0:44:15 - 0:44:25] ▶
It was just two months after the Bay of Pigs in June of 1961 that Kennedy requested a full briefing on MJ-12 activities from the head of the CIA,
[0:44:25 - 0:44:35] ▶
specifically with respect to their role in Cold War psychological warfare.
[0:44:35 - 0:44:39] ▶
This was before Delas was dismissed, which occurred in November.
[0:44:39 - 0:44:42] ▶
Did JFK's decision to clean house at the CIA overlap with an inquisition into the activities of the MJ-12?
[0:44:42 - 0:44:49] ▶
What did Kennedy find out and what impact would this have had on his life?
[0:44:49 - 0:44:54] ▶
The very word secrecy is repugnant in a free and open society.
[0:44:54 - 0:44:59] ▶
And we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings.
[0:44:59 - 0:45:09] ▶
We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweigh the dangers which are cited to justify it.
[0:45:09 - 0:45:21] ▶
Perhaps that will be a topic we can touch on another time, but it wasn't long before another crisis emerged.
[0:45:21 - 0:45:27] ▶
The Berlin standoff. Kissinger found himself sidelined during this crisis, and despite nuclear being one of his areas of expertise, he was scarcely consulted.
[0:45:27 - 0:45:37] ▶
It wasn't long after that that Kissinger left the White House.
[0:45:37 - 0:45:40] ▶
At the end of the 1960s with Kennedy gone, the Johnson administration having run its course, Rockefeller had again run for president.
[0:45:40 - 0:45:48] ▶
But once again, the campaign didn't take, and Kissinger was unexpectedly available when Nixon came calling.
[0:45:48 - 0:45:55] ▶
Despite once calling Nixon the most dangerous candidate, Kissinger accepted the role of national security adviser, marking the start of his most infamous chapter.
[0:45:55 - 0:46:04] ▶
Why was Kissinger Nixon s choice?
[0:46:04 - 0:46:06] ▶
Officially, his deep expertise in nuclear strategy and foreign policy made him invaluable.
[0:46:06 - 0:46:11] ▶
It is often suggested that it was through his associations with MJ-12, or an MJ-12-like group, that Kissinger was considered the perfect person to accompany Nixon into the White House.
[0:46:11 - 0:46:22] ▶
Was Kissinger brought into the administration because he was the ideal person to oversee another arms race, when hidden from public view?
[0:46:23 - 0:46:31] ▶
Just as the Cold War saw a nuclear arms race alongside proxy wars, it is plausible that there was also a secret technological arms race focused on reverse engineering UFO technology.
[0:46:31 - 0:46:42] ▶
If Kissinger's approach to nuclear weapons is any indication, he would have treated the UFO issue extremely pragmatically.
[0:46:42 - 0:46:49] ▶
Seeing it as a destabilizing factor that had to be carefully managed, his belief in secrecy, careful analysis, and psychological warfare would have made him the perfect candidate to control access to such information.
[0:46:49 - 0:47:01] ▶
It is unlikely that Kissinger saw UFOs as a fantastical anomaly.
[0:47:01 - 0:47:05] ▶
For a man so entrenched in real politics, they would have been just another variable, albeit an extraordinary one in the geopolitical equation, particularly if he had been aware of their early existence since his early 20s.
[0:47:05 - 0:47:18] ▶
So what influences might this have had on him since he reached the peak of US power in 1969?
[0:47:18 - 0:47:24] ▶
The Nixon White House was home to scandal secrets and occasional absurdity.
[0:47:24 - 0:47:28] ▶
One of the strangest stories tied to Nixon, and one that raises questions about what Kissinger might have been aware of, involves the actor, Jackie Gleason, who is famously obsessed with UFOs.
[0:47:28 - 0:47:39] ▶
He even built his house to resemble a flying saucer.
[0:47:39 - 0:47:42] ▶
According to Gleason's ex-wife, one night in the 1970s, Nixon, possibly drunk, showed up at the actor's house unannounced and took him to see alien bodies at a secret facility.
[0:47:43 - 0:47:54] ▶
Gleason reportedly shaken, sheared this story upon returning home, only for it to resurface in the tabloids years later.
[0:47:54 - 0:48:02] ▶
Its veracity is debatable.
[0:48:02 - 0:48:04] ▶
Was Nixon bragging to impress his golf buddy? Letting off steam? Was it all fake? No one knows.
[0:48:04 - 0:48:10] ▶
But if Nixon was at all interested in UFOs, his closest advisor, who frequently endured his late-night drunk and tirades, was surely hearing about it.
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Kissinger's time in the White House is National Security Advisor from 1969 to 1975.
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Ian's Secretary of State from 1973 to 1977 gave him immense power over US foreign policy.
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He shaped Cold War diplomacy, managed Vietnam, and opened relations with China, but what about the hidden UFO history?
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In these years, we have the official record, and then we have what was never meant to be recorded.
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The Watergate scandal, secret bombings in Southeast Asia, covert operations in Latin America, and whatever was being discussed inside the 303 Committee.
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The secret of body overseeing CIA missions.
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But the question will remain, if someone like Kissinger was involved in the MJ-12, did this overlap with his duties in the White House, in international relations, or with this 303 Committee?
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The 303 Committee was a secret US interagency group that oversaw all covert operations, and Kissinger was involved with it.
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So how much crossover was there between the official and hidden history when it came to the 303 Committee?
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Or the 54-12 unit which had preceded it? Or the 40 group which came after it?
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The names given to the small high-level teams that oversaw all covert operations for the US government.
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Were they as deeply involved in UFOs as some researchers suggest?
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Officially, these groups members typically included the National Security Advisor, senior officials from the CIA, and representatives from the State and Defense Departments.
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Their job was to approve covert actions while shielding the president from direct involvement.
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Namely, this separation was ensured to maintain plausible deniability on the part of the president.
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But this nominal separation at times allowed this group to wield power over the president,
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and to do things without the president's permission.
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It's easy to think that UFO secrecy would be bound up in these continuity of government programs,
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which is perhaps why these official names are sometimes said to be interchangeable with MJ-12 in the UFO space.
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Alternatively, could programs like MJ-12 have evolved into operations more akin to the CIA's notorious chaos or MK-Ultra?
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Discreet groups acting with autonomy shielded from higher levels of government oversight.
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If these secrets ever make it to the archives, we might get a definitive answer.
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Until then, solid links between Kissinger and UFO programs are rare.
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But there are a few other breadcrumbs that stand out.
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Firstly, we have circumstantial evidence of Harold Maumgren brought into the Nixon administration in 1971.
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Analyst Matthew Pines has suggested that Maumgren was, at times, just as influential as Kissinger.
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Almost acting as a check on Kissinger's own power.
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Harold was, you know, self-consciously not a self-promoter.
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He was not someone who was looking for the power.
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He was recognized and his survivability was because he was going to be the guy working behind the scenes, executing, not taking credit,
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just the guy who would get stuff done.
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And that's where, you know, where as Kissinger was the guy who would, like, you know, walk over people's necks.
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But they were in equal positions.
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They were trusted and they were often used by presidents, you know, to check each other.
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Maumgren was used explicitly by Nixon to check Kissinger in many negotiations to, like, confirm that Kissinger wasn't going rogue on various things.
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And the whole China thing, the back channels with the Soviets, Maumgren was Nixon's, like, you know, confirmation, you know, route.
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Because he didn't fully trust Kissinger to do all this stuff.
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Because Kissinger was kind of a rogue guy, right?
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He thought he was the president.
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Maumgren was there to kind of, like, act as a bit of a, a check.
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It would certainly make sense, then, that if Maumgren had been read into otherworldly technology by Richard Bissell around this time,
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that if he had seen evidence of the craft down during the Blue Girl Triple Prime explosion that was taking the Los Alamos,
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then Kissinger, with his deep connections to nuclear strategy and intelligence, likely had a similar level of awareness.
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That and there is the most intriguing clue of all.
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In January of 1977, just before leaving office, Kissinger sent a telegram to the US Embassy in Ottawa requesting a report on, quote-unquote,
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possible returned space objects.
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The subject line, Moon Dust.
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Operation Moon Dust was a Cold War era program established by the US Air Force to recover and analyze foreign space debris,
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including Soviet satellites and other advanced technology.
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However, declassified documents reveal that Moon Dust remit extended beyond conventional technology to include unidentified objects.
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This leads some to speculate that it may have dealt with extraterrestrial materials.
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Other declassified documents, which described similar circumstances, or directly reference Moon Dust, add to this mystery.
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One document describes the recovery of spherical objects in New Zealand farmland.
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Another details a fireball and subsequent sightings of silent aircraft near a Bolivian crash site.
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Incredibly, I found one that was sent to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which discusses a 1957 UFO event in Afghanistan that rivals what reportedly occurred at Roswell.
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These documents suggest a striking similarity between Moon Dust's operations and the procedures outlined in MJ-12 documents and what we now know about legacy UFO programs.
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Does Kissinger's telegram prove he was involved? Not exactly, but it confirms he was aware of Moon Dust, and given everything else that he had done until this point,
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while perhaps this breadcrumb, however meager, is a significant one.
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Kissinger's role under Nixon is often cited as emblematic of centralized secret governance.
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Journalist William Shawcross described how Kissinger controlled the National Security Council's processes, funneling decisions through layers of analysis he personally managed.
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This allowed him to decide what Nixon would review while bypassing bureaucratic dissent.
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In 1968, before even entering the White House, Kissinger wrote,
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The only way secrecy can be kept is to exclude from the making of the decisions all those who are theoretically charged with carrying it out.
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This philosophy, deliberately keeping key decisions out of reach, even from senior military and government figures, mirrors the kind of compartmentalization that seems to have governed UFO secrecy.
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This seems like a direct result of his work for the CIC and for the Psychological Strategy Board, and who knows perhaps to the MJ-12.
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As Marvin and Bernard Calb suggested in their biography of Kissinger, apparently he had no trouble justifying these kinds of deceptive practices.
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Kissinger's approach to governance was simple.
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Achieve the objective, whatever it takes, secrecy, deception, even actions that in hindsight, many consider criminal.
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The same logic could have been applied to managing disruptive technology of non-human origin.
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If UFOs posed a cold-war threat or advantage, they could have been compartmentalized, controlled, and kept out of public reach.
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And Kissinger would have been in a prime position to oversee such efforts.
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And his legacy is still visible today.
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For all the cynicism and warranted criticism surrounding Kissinger's tenure, his real politic approach to diplomacy achieved notable successes,
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such as opening relations with China and advancing arms control through the Salt-1 talks.
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It would be incredibly interesting from a historical perspective to find out if there was some kind of UFO-related impetus or rationale behind some of these moves.
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And in particular, if Kissinger was using his knowledge or position within that hidden network to parlay or barter these relations.
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Due to Kissinger's possible awareness of the UFO issue, he probably would have used this secret knowledge to his advantage
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when he felt it necessary.
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And despite the decades of tension and mistrust that came after, Kissinger remains a popular figure in both Beijing and Moscow.
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He was a long-time confidant of Vladimir Putin.
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There is a telling exchange between the two from the 90s.
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When in conversation with the future Russian President about their respective backgrounds, Putin told Kissinger he got his start in intelligence.
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To which Kissinger replied,
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All decent people get their start in intelligence. I did too.
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In China as well, Kissinger has remained relevant since the 70s.
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President Xi Jinping described him as an old friend, stating that Sino-US relations will always be linked with the name of Henry Kissinger.
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Both Putin and Xi expressed sincere condolences when Kissinger died at age 100 in November of 2023.
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Figures like Richard Bissell, who moved from the CIA into private defense, suggest that real secrecy does not end when someone's ties to an administration does.
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So did Kissinger continue operating in classified spheres even after leaving government?
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His access to power remained unbroken for decades, and he was continually sought out for foreign policy council on China, post 9-11, Iraq, and even AI.
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Was he playing a longer game, leveraging hidden knowledge in ways we still don't understand?
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Modern UFO whistleblower David Grush has suggested that someone like former Vice President Dick Cheney was a gatekeeper of the UFO program.
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If such a role exists, it must have been occupied before Cheney, possibly by another Machiavellian operative by Kissinger himself.
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Some figures exist in the public eye, but operate a second life in the shadows, redacted, classified, denied.
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It takes a certain kind of person to thrive in that space, someone ruthless, someone pragmatic.
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Someone who can manage nuclear strategy, covert wars, and morally indefensible decisions, maybe even UFO programs.
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So whether Kissinger was exactly what Maria Wang described to Bill Steiman on the phone, I think it's very possible.
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And it makes you think, does that position still exist? Who is the gatekeeper now? And will we ever know?
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Until next episode, my name's Jesse Michaels, and this is American Alchemy.
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