Transcript: UFO Crash Retrievals, Lockheed Alien Experiments & Remote Viewing | Luis Elizondo 237

But then you've got, you know, the other folks that are doing ground ground collection, human operations and counter intelligence operations and investigations and they're on the ground.

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A lot of these folks have military background.

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For example, you're probably way too young to remember this, but in the beginning of Afghanistan, we lost a couple really good folks.

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One of them was a gentleman named Michael Span.

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Michael Span was a CIA officer who died in combat over there.

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Anyways, long story short, there's a requirement to have military people, or formerly trained military people, and they kind of transition into these more tactical roles.

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And so did that for a while and finally my wife was like, look, you know, I don't like you doing this.

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So from there, I took a promotion and I came back, Conace, one of going to DC where I actually went Washington, DC, actually just just out of the DC.

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He was at Fort Belvoir where I was running rather than doing investigations, I was supervising investigations.

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So, you know, you get promoted yourself to behind the desk and you're trading your gun in here.

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You know, you're traded for a pen.

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Now you worry about despobs.

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Yeah, exactly. And worried about budgets and, you know, inspector general investigations and the lawyers, you know, coming down you are you opening this investigation without blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And then from there, I went to back up to DC, work with several different intelligence agencies, some with DOD, some outside of DOD.

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And then in 2000 and maybe seven, I'd have to see seven or eight, seven.

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I went from the National Counterintelligence Executive, which is where I was working there at NCIX.

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And I went to the director of national intelligence, the DNI, actually it's ODNI, office of the director of national intelligence and then the director is called the DNI.

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Is that under DIA officially?

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No, no, no, they are the top.

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So, so great question. If you don't mind, let me digress because I think this is important.

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So, the real cause of 9-11, of course, we know it's terrorists doing bad things.

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But that was a result. That wasn't the cause. The cause was there was intelligence failure within our country.

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Oh, yeah.

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You had pockets of information that were held at the CIA, pocket of information at the FBI and pockets of information at the Department of Defense.

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And we weren't sharing that information.

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So, after 9-11, there was a commission, 9-11 commission that realized basically what the failures were.

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So, they created a new position that fell directly under the president.

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And it was called the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, IRTPA 2004.

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That created a national level, blah, blah, guy, a gal, a point of contact.

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That is the director of the national intelligence and says, you will now manage and coordinate all intelligence across the US government.

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So, basically, even the director of the CIA, even the director of DIA, NGA, NRO, everybody, Lodi, Dottie, you are all responsible to that guy or that gal, whoever that is.

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And so, they created that position. The first one was a gentleman named John Negroponte.

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John Negroponte was a politician and I guess he became a diplomat for a while and ambassador and then became the first DNI.

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Then, you had some guys like McConnell and Blair that filled those were the times that I worked at DNI.

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And then I was also living as we had discussed prior. I decided to raise my family on an island in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay because DC was just not for me not a great place to raise two girls, young girls.

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I feel you there.

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It's a wonderful area by the way that Chesapeake down there.

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It is gorgeous. And so we've always been on the water maybe because I'm Cuban, right? We love the water.

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But I was surrounded by Cuba.

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I know, man. Hey, we're going to say, but I grew up near the water a lot. And that was part of my life.

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And I wanted my girls to share in that experience and not worry about crime and the hustle and bustle and sirens and horns and traffic.

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And I wanted them to have a normal life right. Your bicycle neighborhood. Not worry about you know being run over or something worse.

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Oh, yeah. It's so quiet. Like my aunt used to have a place in Tuman Island down there.

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Yeah, Tuman. Beautiful. Yeah.

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You get right. Say Michaels. I mean, it's, it's, it's, I can't wait. If you got to work in DC and don't want to live in DC, that's where you want to live.

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How far is that though from that?

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Ah, so now you get into my point. Why?

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So it's almost as if I gave you a script or something. You're, you're, so that's precisely the issue.

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Quality of life is fantastic. But the commute out to pass Langley, which is where I was at past there was a three hour one way commute.

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One way, three hours. So I was, and if there was any traffic, like, I'm bad.

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Dude, I am, I'm literally in the car longer than I am at work and I'm at work eight to 10 hours. Right. So Z, Z row quality life. I'd come home.

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I cram some frozen food down my throat and I go to bed and I wake up and wash rinse repeat all over again.

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So my quality life was terrible. My kids had a great upbringing. My wife had a great life out there. But my life is pretty much sucked.

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And so I had an offer in 2008, late 2008 to come back to the Pentagon for a bit and establish a information sharing relationship between Nash,

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so part of the 911 commission is, hey, we're not sharing enough information. So now that we're getting FBI CIA and DOD to share information and whatnot,

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we're still not getting that information down to those who need it like the cops on the ground, right.

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Those folks who don't necessarily have a national security clearance, but they also have a need to know because if you want to stop and prevent terrorism or anything else,

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you got to ultimately that information is useless unless it gets to the right people.

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So I was brought into work with DHS to try to figure out a way where we can take national level intelligence information and get it disseminated down in a way that didn't.

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That was still effective effective and useful, but didn't compromise national level secrets because these guys didn't have a lot of these guys and gals at the local level didn't have security clearances.

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So you can't share with them a secret document because they don't have a secret security clearance. So how do you do it? Well, long story short, I'll spare you the details,

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but you do it through airlines and you do it through certain capabilities on automation that can strip out certain sources of methods and information still get most of the information that's needed down to the level.

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So that's what I was brought there to do.

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And then it was, as you said correctly, soon after that is when I got exposed to the government's UAP program, UFO program.

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Okay, and this is, I believe Jim Likasky.

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Correct. Dr. Likasky. Yeah. So this is, and this is what I try to explain to people. If you want to want to know a little bit about Jim, he is the epitome of a rocket scientist, literally a rocket scientist.

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And in fact, if you were to ask me in my opinion, probably the world's premier rocket scientist, certainly one of the best in the US government has ever had this is a guy that can tell you the burn rate of a first stage solid rocket motorbooster, he can tell you the trajectory and reentry speed of a Merv warhead coming in from lower floor, but I mean this guy is amazing.

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So I didn't know it at the time, but when I, when I finally met him, you know, he actually looked like I hate this atypical rocket scientist, but he had the glasses, you know, that I tie a little bit crooked and hair, he was more interested in doing the work than he was in his own appearance, right, because he's a rocket scientist, he's got a real job to do.

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I remember him asking me a very blunt question at the end of our first discussion together, and he said to me, he said, what do you think about UFOs? And this just came out of the blue, I mean, I was, I wasn't even even fun like what?

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And so I thought, let me get my joint out, please.

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I was like, is this this is a question I use like a psychological leave out. And so I answered him truthfully, I said, I don't. And so he kind of looked at me and he said, what do you mean you do not believe in UFOs? And I said, no, we didn't say that.

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You asked me, what do I think of UFOs? And I said, I don't think about UFOs because frankly, I don't have a luxury to I'm too busy doing.

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And you ever thought about it before? No, on your own time? No, I was never into like a science fiction kid. I wasn't into Star Trek or Star Wars or anything like that.

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I may see an episode coming home from school one because someone had on the TV, but I couldn't tell you anything about the story lines or anything like that. I wasn't overly interested in that stuff.

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I was more of a more of a GI joke kid.

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And yeah, so long story short, he said to me after that, he said, look, I just want to warn you, don't let your personal or analytic bias get the best of you because what you might learn may challenge any preconceived notions or narratives that you have on the topic.

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And I found that very peculiar and and realize very soon after what he was saying was 100% legitimate. Why was he meeting with you? Where was he meeting with you? Like, what was the pretext here? Because obviously he dumps it on you in the meeting like, hey, what are you doing?

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Yeah, but that's not that wasn't what was on this.

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Right. So what earlier on I had several meetings with some people that were part of his program that had been called Blue Badgers is what I had to remember your member of the intelligence community. So that means you have the top secret SCI security clearance.

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You can get it any any building you need to. So these folks had to nest the requisite clearances and they were telling me that they have this program that's very sensitive. They need some counterintelligence support, which is my background.

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I initially thought it was because of my background in advanced aerospace technologies. I had spent an earlier part of my career doing technology protection for high energy lasers, unmanned aerial vehicles,

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Tom Hock-Rus missiles, Apache Longbow avionics, you know, some advanced space based systems. Only later did I learn that they just needed a really good counterintelligence guy and security guy for this program.

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They were worried in essence in the vernacular. They were worried if the Russians or the Chinese, you know, were trying to penetrate the program.

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So that's what I initially thought that this was. It's just another special access program, another sensitive program, the US government, you know, not really that uncommon.

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They just needed some expertise to help them out.

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Was this first meeting in a SCIFF? Yeah, in my building. Yeah, in my building. So here's a problem. When I wrote the book, I actually put those details in there. Unfortunately the government redacted them. So I'm not allowed to say the specific location because it was sensitive buildings.

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But they were in the NCR National Capital Region. They were, I can say, very, very close to Washington D.C. downtown. I can't say anything more than that.

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So a rundown townhouse. It's a safe house, really masquerading for the CIA.

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You can fill in the blanks as you want. I personally don't. I'll be filling them in all day.

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I don't look good in an orange jumpsuit. So I'm going to mind my manners here.

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And so, yeah, I went to his location after they came to my location several times. I went to his location.

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Again, another undisclosed location in the DC area looked like a normal building. It was not.

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And visited my thing was on the 10th floor.

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10th floor. I think. All right. Then there's a down on Lesey Stark-Google.

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I know someone's going to be out there right now looking for all buildings. I at least have that.

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I think that's one. So, yeah, I met him in his place. And then the rest, as you say, is history.

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Yeah. And this whole concept of a skiff, though. This is so cool to me.

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Like, because you talk about it so nonchalantly because you're doing all the, a lot of these meetings in these places.

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But essentially, these are like, they're like container ships that are blocked out from the world.

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So, nothing, no type of counter-intel can get in there or something. Like, do we just have skiffs sitting in the middle of the hallways in the Pentagon?

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Yes, we do. So, think of this room that we're in here as a skiff.

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It's designed to be sound efficient, meaning that we can have a conversation like this.

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And you're not going to get any outside noise from outside. Well, a skiff is kind of the same way, but in reverse.

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We don't want the noise in here being heard out there.

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So, you build a room that has been accredited to be a sensitive compartment of information facility, S-S-C-I facility.

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So, you have three levels of classified information. You have confidential, you have secret, and then you have top secret.

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So, think of like a rainbow. Well, at that top tier of top secret, there's several categories within that top secret.

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So, you have top secret S-C-I, SAP, Caps, and some other things.

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So, a skiff, like you're showing up there. Yeah, we are on the screen right here.

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And that skiff, there's actually a tactical type skiff. So, that's a mobile skiff.

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So, they're built in a container. As you see there, they are soundproof. They're also RF proof, radio frequency proof.

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So, you can't eavesdrop into a conversation. And those are portable ones.

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Now, not all skiffs are portable, right? That is really something that was built for initially for the special operations community

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during, right after 9-11, and you could put them on a boat, put them on a plane, and you could drop it off anywhere in the world, and you could do what you needed to do.

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Yeah, look at the sound boards in there too, with Obama.

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Well, and there's also white noise makers. I don't know if you know what that is. No.

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So, a white noise maker, and you could probably pull that up.

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It creates a level, a baseline level of ambient sound to restrict people from, if they do happen to hear as a glimpse of a conversation, it confuses them.

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So, those are white noise makers, and you'll see those into skiffs, and then you have shielding, because bad guys are really good at eavesdropping, and there's all sorts of ways to do it.

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Another one is to coat, if you most skiffs don't have windows, but those that do have special coating on the glass, because if you know what you're doing, and I'll be careful what I say here,

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there's technology out there where you can allow the vibration of glass, and you know, translate it into voice and sound, and pick up on someone's conversation.

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So, there are these things that people do in the world of SB knowledge to try to collect information.

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Another very interesting program, which I can talk about now, it's unclassified, type in the word tempest, and look at what tempest means from a, from a secure communications, and it will pull up.

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Type it, yeah, tempest secure communication. There you go, perfect.

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And basically...

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So, basically, can we click that first one unless it's open?

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Yeah, go ahead, Le.

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So, basically, everything electronic gives off emanations, right?

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Cameras, this microphone, everything, a computer monitor.

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And so, it's possible if you know the frequency of the oscillations of certain things, and again, I would be careful with certain electronic equipment,

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I can see what's on your monitor, your computer screen, without ever looking at your computer screen.

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And so, you want to, you want to prevent that by, by having your conversations and having your equipment in these skiffs,

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so the bad guys can't, can't collect information. So, skiffs are really, really common.

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They have to be accredited periodically, but really it's nothing more than a room like this on steroids.

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I mean, you're kind of like in a skiff yourself, except for it's the opposite.

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You're trying to limit noise from the outside coming in, or the skiff is trying to limit noise from the inside going out.

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But you're telling me in like 2007, 2008, this was standard technology we had.

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Oh, absolutely. It's older than that, brother. It goes back to the 70s, man.

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You can't...

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That's what I'm saying. I feel like DARPA is 50 years ahead, man.

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That's crazy. So, you're doing all these initial meetings where you're getting read in, with like the Jim Lekaske's obviously.

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Everything in a skiff. Everything in a skiff. Yeah, you as basically you go into a building, go through a door that's got a bunch of security codes.

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Then someone goes and say, okay, let me see your identification, okay, you're good.

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You got the blue badge, which means you have a comments from out. And then if you go into a certain, like a SAP F facility.

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So, if you think a skiff is something, try getting into a SAP F facility. That's like a vault within a vault within a vault.

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That is a obscene level of security requirements. And so I worked out of one of those.

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They could kill you in there, no one would ever know it.

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Or here.

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Yeah, I mean, it's dramatically sealed. In fact, some of these have... Well, I better not say that.

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How often does that happen where they wax someone in there?

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Well, I mean, I wouldn't be able to tell you what I...

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I'm not a denial. I'm not clear. Just to skip that for the record.

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Truth be told, those are for our guys. We use SAP Fs and we use skiffs for our own people.

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We don't... Typically, unless you have security clearance, you're not getting into a skiff.

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I mean, there's some exceptions to that of, you know, you're being escorted and whatnot.

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But for the most part, you don't get into a SAP F unless you're right on and you don't get into a skiff.

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And we've got at least TSSCI for the most part.

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So I think one of the things that often gets mixed up online when people are looking at the alleged history here of like the program is the whole all SAP and A-Tip thing.

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It's like eventually it was known as A-Tip. We'll get into that whole acronym and whatever soon.

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But when you're getting read in on this and then I guess within a few meetings brought in as the counter-intel guy,

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my understanding is that this was when at the time Senator Harry Reid, who was a major senator at one point, the majority of minority leader in the Senate,

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had basically started this thing called OSAP and was saying we need to look into not just our history with UAP, but we need to look into what this is from a national security threat perspective.

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At the time was it already funded though? Like was this something that the rest of the other people in the Senate were read into or was this strictly like some kind of offshoot Harry Reid's talking with, you know, people in the Pentagon and they're doing this private team that no one knows about.

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So great question. Let me rewind the tape here a little bit and see if I can help do a level set on this.

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First of all, it wasn't necessarily just a Harry Reid thing. The other thing, oh, it was Harry Reid's pet project. No, it wasn't.

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There was two other senators that were involved. You had Senator Ted Stevens from Alaska, who was also a military veteran, and you also had Senator Inue from Hawaii.

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So he was bipartisan, both Republican and Democrat.

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Love that.

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Yep, absolutely. Right. And these were senior dudes who literally all were veterans and in some cases literally gave their right arm for their country.

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Even himself had his own UFO sighting, his own UAP sighting while he was flying a mission. Then you also had astronaut John Glenn at the time.

[0:28:20 - 0:28:27] ▶

He was also part of this effort trying to push forward. Now the impetus to that is still up for debate. I can't tell you in the early days of all that because I wasn't there.

[0:28:27 - 0:28:37] ▶

I know there was a lot of people that say a lot of things. What I can tell you personally because because Harry Reid told me before he died when it seemed periodically in Vegas and whatnot.

[0:28:37 - 0:28:48] ▶

Unfortunately, he passed away as everybody knows, but.

[0:28:48 - 0:28:51] ▶

All right.

[0:28:51 - 0:28:52] ▶

Yep, absolutely. Rest in peace.

[0:28:52 - 0:28:54] ▶

He did some very good stuff for this country. Politics aside, he did some very he was a patriot.

[0:28:54 - 0:28:59] ▶

So long story short, he told me that he had at one point when he was a Senate majority leader, he had been accidentally, and I say accidentally, you know,

[0:28:59 - 0:29:12] ▶

quote, because that's what he said to me that he was read on to the UAP program.

[0:29:12 - 0:29:17] ▶

And then very quickly they came back. I think it was maybe the next couple days or a week later and he said, Hey, listen, we need you to sign this document.

[0:29:17 - 0:29:24] ▶

We accidentally read you onto something you shouldn't know about. And he was in sense. He says, what do you mean? I'm not signing anything.

[0:29:24 - 0:29:30] ▶

I'm a Senate majority leader. I should be read on to every program. That's part of my job is the oversight. I'm part of the gang.

[0:29:30 - 0:29:35] ▶

That is responsible for all intelligence operation. He said, no, you were reading you off administratively, meaning we're not we're not going to talk about this with you.

[0:29:35 - 0:29:44] ▶

And so he indicated to me that he was really, really upset. And this is how he started getting very vocal and about his concern that certain elements in the US government were hiding the truth about UFO about UAP.

[0:29:44 - 0:29:58] ▶

And so again, I can't tell you what he did other than with all sat because I wasn't there for it. I can tell you what he told me and there's other individuals I can probably tell you earlier on like James LeCats,

[0:29:58 - 0:30:11] ▶

or even J Stratton will probably tell you more about the all sat part started. So all set was a contract vehicle that looked at UAP, but also looked at other stuff.

[0:30:11 - 0:30:19] ▶

Contract vehicle. Yeah, contract vehicle is a mechanism by which the US government funds projects, right.

[0:30:19 - 0:30:26] ▶

So you have a contract because most people think, oh, the government does all the work. They don't. They contract out. They need some contract. Oh, yeah. And so this is how we're getting into the good stuff. So this is where big low aerospace gets involved.

[0:30:26 - 0:30:40] ▶

He bids on the contract. By the way, people think, oh, it was a sweetheart deal. No, it wasn't. In fact, he was the only one to bid on the contract.

[0:30:40 - 0:30:47] ▶

He had the expertise and the capabilities to do it his staff and oh, by the way, he funded a lot of this stuff himself out of his own time. Robert.

[0:30:47 - 0:30:54] ▶

They go correct. So people give him a lot of crap, not realizing that the guy really is a patriot. He's done some incredible stuff for this country out of his own out of his own pocket. So anyways, long story short.

[0:30:54 - 0:31:04] ▶

The contract gets awarded and they start all set and all set is also looking at other things like, for example, the skin walker ranch again things that I wasn't really involved in my focus really was more in initially counter intelligence security.

[0:31:04 - 0:31:19] ▶

Then it became when a tip became a tip itself and the all set program kind of faded off. When was that 2012 2013. So the contract for all set ended in 2012, I believe, went from eight nine 10 11 12 so five years.

[0:31:19 - 0:31:33] ▶

And it it petered out. We had requested another $10 million for FY 13 and FY 14 fund. We did it under what we thought fiscal year, fiscal year right FY, which is different than tell me.

[0:31:33 - 0:31:45] ▶

You government guys got all these goddamn terms. I know, man, it's an entire forest of acronyms and I know I know it's his own language. If you ever if you ever want to have a secret language,

[0:31:45 - 0:31:57] ▶

somebody just talking government to be no one will let that you're talking about before he find that that's right.

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[0:33:30 - 0:33:34] ▶

So anyway, long story short, the A-Tip piece was really more focused on nuts and bolts. So we were looking at military encounters, aircraft encounters, Navy ship encounters with UAP and things that we were picking up, not just with gun camera footage and flea footage, pod footage, things that we could also cooperate with radar data, hard data, right?

[0:33:34 - 0:33:56] ▶

And also eyewitnesses like the F-18 fighter pilots that were coming up close, in some cases very up close and personal to these things.

[0:33:56 - 0:34:03] ▶

So you had several issues going on. And so the A-Tip program was initially, you know, some people, depending who you talk to and what day of the week it is, they'll tell you a slight variation of it.

[0:34:03 - 0:34:13] ▶

I can't tell you really much about OSAP because I wasn't my focus. I can tell you about my involvement with A-Tip.

[0:34:13 - 0:34:19] ▶

From my understanding and from my observations, because A-Tip became a very legitimate program and is still recognized how you can talk to very read other folks are like, it was real, you know, I don't know if that's how you're doing.

[0:34:20 - 0:34:30] ▶

Yeah, I was putting them up.

[0:34:30 - 0:34:31] ▶

Yeah, I mean, it's a real piece. That's what peace stands for program.

[0:34:31 - 0:34:34] ▶

Now, it may have started off in the early days before I came on board as a nickname or whatever it is. I don't doubt that.

[0:34:34 - 0:34:41] ▶

But it was a real, real program towards certainly from 2010 onwards.

[0:34:41 - 0:34:48] ▶

And as all SAP faded away, A-Tip kind of contracted, meaning we really, we've limited the number of contractors that were involved.

[0:34:48 - 0:34:58] ▶

They were really only maybe five or six contractors we kept on board from like the blockheads and the Northrops and stuff like that.

[0:34:58 - 0:35:05] ▶

I mean, contract people. I don't want to say their names right now because I don't have permission to say their names.

[0:35:05 - 0:35:09] ▶

Oh, you're referring more on an individual basis. Yeah.

[0:35:09 - 0:35:13] ▶

So like a big ol'o, but again, I'm not putting names in your mouth. I'm just saying.

[0:35:13 - 0:35:16] ▶

Yeah, something like that, where we had certain people that had a deep amount of expertise that was really, really what we considered low density in the US government.

[0:35:16 - 0:35:27] ▶

But the people who are involved with OSAP when you come into it and A-Tip on the inside of the government, it seems like that group is kind of the same.

[0:35:27 - 0:35:36] ▶

It is. Transition. It's exactly my point. Well, you just, that's what I was trying to allude to just now without saying people's names.

[0:35:36 - 0:35:41] ▶

So a lot of the core expertise that were in OSAP came over to A-Tip and stayed with us, right?

[0:35:41 - 0:35:48] ▶

But there was also a lot that were like, OSAP, I think with big ol'o on the contract, I had like, I think the digital list was like 100 and some people.

[0:35:48 - 0:35:55] ▶

By the time we were really focusing on the A-Tip piece, we had really very, very few contractors.

[0:35:55 - 0:36:02] ▶

Most of the folks were government people at the Pentagon or strategic command or within other agencies.

[0:36:02 - 0:36:07] ▶

And it was, it was, it was not focused on the skin walker ranch stuff after, certainly after 2012 when the contract died, where we were focusing only on military,

[0:36:07 - 0:36:18] ▶

incursions into military controlled airspace, over sensitive military installations in and around our ships, that's seen and stuff like that.

[0:36:18 - 0:36:28] ▶

So, and it's convoluted. So it's totally understandable when people, I mean, first of all, the government's already complicated, let alone, you know, the nuances of the, the each is of each.

[0:36:28 - 0:36:37] ▶

So it, it totally, totally get it. And I think even, even some OSAP and A-Tip guys might even be kind of confused because some of them weren't there for every meeting, right?

[0:36:37 - 0:36:47] ▶

Some of them weren't necessarily brought into everything we were doing. So including you technically.

[0:36:47 - 0:36:52] ▶

Sure, absolutely. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So yeah, because I try to simplify these things and make it easier from a 30,000 foot view.

[0:36:52 - 0:36:59] ▶

Essentially, it's not like you're walking into places and there's a giant sign on the door. Welcome to the A-Tip meeting. Welcome to the OSAP meeting.

[0:36:59 - 0:37:06] ▶

It's like, give me a fucking skiff and let's talk about this.

[0:37:06 - 0:37:08] ▶

Well, a cute, perfect example. You, you, you, and your producer, right? You guys work on this project together.

[0:37:08 - 0:37:12] ▶

You're in a lot of the same interviews together and yet he might go out, get a cup of coffee, you might go out and get a sandwich and you now get involved in a different conversation with somebody else on the street and you come back.

[0:37:12 - 0:37:21] ▶

You know, but you're not necessarily going to share every little nuance of, hey, I went to get a frappuccino and I ran into Bill and he told me his dog needs to be walked and just got shot to the vet.

[0:37:21 - 0:37:31] ▶

It's not, it's not, that's not realistic, you know.

[0:37:31 - 0:37:34] ▶

But essentially to keep it simple, maybe the focus of the exact types of events you're looking for or, or context of UAP technically like has a shift or whatever between OSAP and A-Tip.

[0:37:34 - 0:37:46] ▶

At the end of the day, you guys are a group of government individuals who are read in on serious secret shit that even people above you technically in rank don't know.

[0:37:46 - 0:37:56] ▶

That is correct. And you are, you are evaluating the national security implications of UAP, which is the term you guys, I guess, we're coming up with back then.

[0:37:56 - 0:38:05] ▶

Correct. And there's reasons for that. You know, people say, well, you know, why didn't you just say UFOs?

[0:38:05 - 0:38:10] ▶

Well, that's one, that's one, but also the fact is it's not even accurate, right?

[0:38:10 - 0:38:15] ▶

So when the word UFO started getting used back, I guess 50s and 60s, what is UFO mean, unidentified flying object? Well, what's flying? Well, flying is, let's say this is a plane, right?

[0:38:15 - 0:38:25] ▶

There's four fundamental forces. You have thrust, lift, drag, and weight. And when you understand that you create wings and wings create lift and then you fly. That's what flight is. It's, it's lift.

[0:38:25 - 0:38:36] ▶

These things don't have wings. They don't have rudders, they don't have control surfaces, they don't have L-A-Rons, they don't even have cockpit sometimes. So they're not really flying. They're in there, they're in the sky, but they're not really flying in a conventional sense.

[0:38:36 - 0:38:47] ▶

And also we see them underwater. Oh, and also seem low Earth orbit. So you don't fly underwater, right? So you do other things underwater, but that's not actually technically flying.

[0:38:47 - 0:38:57] ▶

So there were several reasons. First of all, Stigman Taboo with the UFO term, but also it wasn't accurate. And then it became unidentified aerial phenomenon. And then it got changed to what? Unidentified anomalous phenomenon.

[0:38:57 - 0:39:10] ▶

Because we're now we're talking multiple domains. We're talking multiple environments that we are, we are encountering these these things. And so I think part of the effort was just to make the term more accurate. Yes, remove the Stigman Taboo associated, but at the same time, be more precise in our in our verbiage.

[0:39:10 - 0:39:28] ▶

So when you first like agree to be brought in on this though, you've had a few conversations. Obviously you can't go home and have pillow talk with your wife about this stuff. This is this is pure intelligence. So you are you're walking out of skiffs and you're living with the information unable to speak with anyone about it.

[0:39:28 - 0:39:46] ▶

And like you said in the first meeting when LeCasca asks you have you thought about UFOs and you're like, no, well now suddenly you're thinking about UFOs, UIPs. Do you have a moment where I don't know if it's like you left to yourself like is this really my life like are we doing this or you're like, holy shit like this stuff's real and like was there this reality moment where you're just sitting outside and looking into the looking into the sky going, oh my god, like what am I getting myself into here?

[0:39:46 - 0:40:13] ▶

Yeah, so there's typically two in my experience and I can't speak for the people I've noticed two types of people how they how they deal with this information. First of all, when you have a security clearance and you're read onto a lot of programs, it's really hard to be surprised because you learn a lot of things and you kind of start getting I'll say numb, but used to the idea that you're going to learn a lot of things that most Americans are never going to know about to the day they die.

[0:40:13 - 0:40:38] ▶

And so it's not really that big of a deal. This is a little different because you've been told for so long that it's BS right now it's like well okay wait a minute so the two types of people I've noticed there's these group of people that have this a ha revelatory moment and I've seen it when I've been briefing them even at the Pentagon it's like oh my god it hits them like a ton of bricks like you mean they're real like this is real like no kidding this is a joke.

[0:40:38 - 0:41:03] ▶

And it's this this kind of this revelatory moment where where it's like an epiphany right. And then there's the other group of people which I probably fall under which is more of a slow and steady gradual realization that we're dealing with something that's certainly not conventional.

[0:41:03 - 0:41:21] ▶

It's definitely not our technology and there's a really high likelihood it's not adversarial technology and that's been my experience and that's that's the way I'm going to say that.

[0:41:21 - 0:41:32] ▶

That that's the way I came to terms with this it wasn't this you know I left a meeting also we're talking about aliens you know talking about UFOs that wasn't the case from to me who is always well could this be adversarial technology could this be Russian could this be Chinese right is some sort of nice you continue to go down and you're getting more and more details and facts you start realizing okay well it's definitely not Russian could be Chinese well let's let's see what the red force technologies are right let's see what their capabilities are because not just technology I see this thing flying is this Chinese it's okay what does it take for this thing.

[0:41:32 - 0:42:01] ▶

To do what it's doing right and do they have that technology to do it it's not just simple to say oh yeah that that's clearly Russian or Chinese because it's not just the object it's it's the signature of the object and I got to be careful not to go into a lot of detail that because signature sometimes signature information is more important than then then identifying the object itself because you can recognize performance characteristics.

[0:42:01 - 0:42:25] ▶

Through signature data collection that you can't necessarily get visually or optically and so you explain that a little more yeah sure I can't look at it or jump suits.

[0:42:25 - 0:42:37] ▶

Let me explain this test in your physics here yeah I was on the phone with Jack's our body last night he's like ask him some physics questions he thinks he's a physicist oh I'm not a physicist at all no no I'm definitely not a physicist I'm not even closer so a signature is kind of like a boat.

[0:42:37 - 0:42:54] ▶

In the water right we are so we're here in this wonderful studio if you got the water nearby and you see the boats going by signature data is looking at not necessarily the boat but the type of wake the boat makes in the water the sound of the boat makes right the perturbed in the water and if you look at the back of the wake does it have two streams or one stream that can tell you if it has two engines or one engine right for example look at a plane flying up ahead.

[0:42:55 - 0:43:21] ▶

You can tell the difference between a small jet and a big jet because usually you have more engines on the big jet right you can see the contrails separate contrails from each engine also there's an acoustic signature right is it a military combat plane that's breaking the sound barrier because you would hear that that's a signature right or is it sounding like just a regular passenger jet at 35,000 feet so so signature data can tell you a lot about things that the looking at the object can't I can tell you velocity and trajectory they can tell you all sorts of.

[0:43:21 - 0:43:48] ▶

Extra details that the physical object itself can't tell you so signature data is very very important okay so does that make sense I can try to get another Tampa Fanny me know I I think that's pretty good the thing with you is that if we get stuck on so many rabbit holes we're going to be here for like 36 straight hours I know there's so much here yeah but when you.

[0:43:48 - 0:44:11] ▶

You ask me about intelligence right sides it's it's it's a lifelong journey oh my god yeah yeah and it's like you know you don't at the beginning you don't know the scope of it at all you you just realize okay we are.

[0:44:11 - 0:44:23] ▶

Alright I'm being told that there's some real shit out there that we can't really identify so yes that's a meaning of life crisis potentially but you don't know.

[0:44:24 - 0:44:31] ▶

How much what the volume is how how many of these alleged sightings are even real and then you start getting pulled on or pulled into the actual intelligence and in your book the description of the Calarice meeting feels like a fucking team America meet up because you get pulled into this

[0:44:31 - 0:44:50] ▶

with legends of the game how put off Jacques Vallet Eric Davis I think was in well that was actually a dinner that was not an a skip believe it wasn't in a

[0:44:50 - 0:44:58] ▶

was not an a skip negative no it was actually you're just sitting in an Olive Garden talking about well not all garden but no and it was it was it was the room had been you know fairly secured okay but we weren't sharing US secrets it was somebody else a

[0:44:58 - 0:45:14] ▶

national that was sharing their their experiences with us so technically it's not classified right it's it's just just them telling us classification classified information only applies to information that is US government derived that's

[0:45:14 - 0:45:27] ▶

a little loop around right here well you know that like I said there's there's ways to have conversations you know and then there's right ways to have conversations and then there's definitely

[0:45:27 - 0:45:37] ▶

ways not to have conversation but it seems like between the the cadre of incredible individuals that you had in this room that you're like whoa

[0:45:37 - 0:45:45] ▶

in between ethnic bigalos in there too in between that and what you were hearing from in this case Brazilian counterparts about what happened in

[0:45:45 - 0:45:54] ▶

Calarice this was a huge moment for you where you're like whoa so would you mind just explaining what when this case was and what

[0:45:54 - 0:46:01] ▶

allegedly happened and what you were told in that meeting yeah and you know put this out blindly I'm not an expert in

[0:46:01 - 0:46:06] ▶

Calarice investigation I wasn't there for the investigation I was there for that for one of the you know few other debriefing so to speak from this from this general general

[0:46:06 - 0:46:14] ▶

Chora it's in a nutshell without going too far down the rabbit hole Brazil had been experiencing some UAP issues and in some cases

[0:46:14 - 0:46:24] ▶

these UAP or UFO encounters were were disruptive to the local population and so there's an area in Brazil called

[0:46:24 - 0:46:30] ▶

colitis where the incidents became so prevalent that the the Brazilian government became involved and they sent one of their top generals you know to go

[0:46:30 - 0:46:42] ▶

I hate to say but to go not cats right because when things get really out of hand you send in the military they wanted to get a control of the

[0:46:42 - 0:46:49] ▶

situations you which are really going on it's just BS or what but not so they sent in their military and their military and they sent

[0:46:49 - 0:46:56] ▶

in doctors and other investigators and the result of which was yeah that these guys were actually some of the Brazilian soldiers were injured by by UAP and had

[0:46:56 - 0:47:07] ▶

experienced the things themselves and so it wasn't just like going sending the military to debrief a bunch of civilians they were having experiences as well and some of these individuals were being injured.

[0:47:07 - 0:47:16] ▶

Yeah what do we when you say injuries what was the scope and what was the evidence they showed you that sure well it seemed to be primarily the injuries were like some sort of

[0:47:16 - 0:47:25] ▶

directed energy think of like a laser or perhaps a burn where you have a superficial burn some folks reported other other issues possibly consistent with directed energy more internal organ damage and then some people had some terrifying

[0:47:25 - 0:47:41] ▶

experiences as reported by them in some cases not just being terrified but potentially even being being pursued by these by these UFOs by these UAP which is by the way

[0:47:41 - 0:47:53] ▶

fundamentally different than a lot of the experiences that people may report here in the United States you know people here tend to tend to feel a little bit more benign well down there they definitely had the impression these things were or were not

[0:47:53 - 0:48:08] ▶

benevolent they were malevolent now I also want to draw a distinction here it is possible it is certainly possible that some of these injuries were not deliberate right they're just a

[0:48:08 - 0:48:21] ▶

simple process of the technology so what I always say is like when you go to an airport you jump on a 737 there's no real threat but if you go on the tarmac onto the runway right of that and go behind the jet engine while it's

[0:48:21 - 0:48:35] ▶

spooling up you're now going to yeah there's a threat right it's not intentional but you're going to get burned you're probably going to lose your hearing and maybe even worse it's just it's just a product of the technology it's a

[0:48:35 - 0:48:46] ▶

part of the propulsion it doesn't mean to hurt you it's just you got too close to it when it was spooling up so that is also part of the calculus that we tried to look at say okay was this into I know you might feel that it was

[0:48:46 - 0:48:57] ▶

intentional but was really intentional right if I can go on the road here and I stand on the road I'm probably going to get run over my car right that intentional probably not but you know I'm at the

[0:48:57 - 0:49:08] ▶

wrong place at the wrong time so those are some of the other considerations as well and always try to keep an open mind the folks today to

[0:49:08 - 0:49:14] ▶

always try to keep a very open mind we actually approach investigations with the exact opposite approach that people think they came into all you guys were trying to

[0:49:14 - 0:49:23] ▶

investigate UFOs now we actually worked our butts off to trying to prosaic explanation first because because they're

[0:49:23 - 0:49:30] ▶

prosaic meaning a normal explanation right so oh what you're seeing there's actually the

[0:49:30 - 0:49:35] ▶

contrail of a cruise missile that was being test fired over Vandaberg at this particular date at this particular time that's not a UFO or what you're

[0:49:35 - 0:49:42] ▶

looking at is a those lights on the horizon are actually on the mass of a sailboat it's over the horizon but you can see the mass because it's a little bit

[0:49:42 - 0:49:48] ▶

higher and that's a navigational like you're seeing or an anchor light or oh actually what you're seeing it so we went into looking at incidents with prosaic

[0:49:48 - 0:49:58] ▶

explanation trying to say okay this is more than likely something that is just being misidentified the problem is and this is where the five

[0:49:59 - 0:50:07] ▶

observables were so helpful because once you lay that data over the five observables and they start fitting into those categories now you've got something that is

[0:50:07 - 0:50:17] ▶

outside the normal parameters of something conventional can you define the five observables for people yeah sure the first one is you only go into little

[0:50:17 - 0:50:27] ▶

detail of each one okay so the first observable is instantaneous acceleration so what is instantaneous acceleration well

[0:50:27 - 0:50:35] ▶

acceleration is a change in velocity so if I'm driving 50 miles an hour and I kick up the gas to 100 miles an hour I am changing my velocity how quickly I

[0:50:36 - 0:50:45] ▶

achieve that speed there are inertial forces inertial forces that are experienced and we we call those forces we equate to them on a scale called a

[0:50:45 - 0:50:53] ▶

G force one G is the effect of Earth's gravity on us 9.8 meters per second per second per second squared because of the mass of the Earth we all

[0:50:53 - 0:51:02] ▶

experience gravity relatively equal and so if in comparison if I do a high G maneuver in combat aircraft that's about to a 9G which is a lot nine times of

[0:51:02 - 0:51:13] ▶

force of gravity so now your head goes from being 14 pounds to now you know almost 100 pounds plus right so that's your whole body so now you're you're you're you're you're you're way over a thousand pounds when you're pulling these

[0:51:13 - 0:51:26] ▶

maneuvers so we were G suits to negate that effect and the human being can withstand about 9G forces for a short period of time before you start having medical consequences and

[0:51:26 - 0:51:35] ▶

ultimately death right you have blackouts and redouts and you die to compare that to our technology we have one of our most highly maneuverable manned aircraft manned

[0:51:35 - 0:51:45] ▶

aircraft to an old aircraft but it's still one of the most highly maneuverable is the general dynamics f16 the f16 at the unclassified level can pull

[0:51:45 - 0:51:55] ▶

about 17 G's before you start having structural failure meaning wings begin to snap off and that's the f16 right there the family highly maneuverable now we have other vehicles that are unmanned you know

[0:51:55 - 0:52:08] ▶

perform much more than that but but that is that's pretty much limitations of a man vehicle okay what we are seeing our objects that are performing at 2000 3000 4000

[0:52:08 - 0:52:18] ▶

G forces right so well beyond the healthy limitations of anything biological to withstand and certainly well well beyond anything from a material science perspective so that's that's that's

[0:52:18 - 0:52:30] ▶

observable one the second observable is hyper sonic velocity now what is hyper sonic velocity it is five technically five times the speed of sound so speed of sound Mach 1 is roughly 760 some miles an hour at sea level so you're

[0:52:30 - 0:52:46] ▶

you're looking right yeah multiply that by five and you're going to put that in comparison an average commercial jet flies about 550 miles an hour if you're lucky with you know with a good tailwind

[0:52:47 - 0:52:57] ▶

now do we have aircraft that can do that we do we have for example the Lockheed wife 12 a sr 71 a k a the blackbird it can fly about Mach 5 you can but when it wants to do a right hand turn it takes roughly half the state of Ohio to do it right

[0:52:58 - 0:53:16] ▶

these things are not flying at 3,200 x miles an hour some of these UAP are flying at 10,000 13,000 miles an hour and they're doing it in a low

[0:53:16 - 0:53:30] ▶

low earth atmosphere environment where that the the co-fiction coefficient is is really really high and they're not taking a you know a slow study turn they're doing instant 180's 90 degree turns

[0:53:30 - 0:53:42] ▶

so you have to scratch your head say well who has that technology right so the third observable it's a bit of an oxymoron it's called its low observability meaning it's hard to see with a naked eye you see something but it doesn't

[0:53:42 - 0:53:56] ▶

like anything you've ever seen before it's hard to explain even on radar data it's coming back the radar is suggesting there's some sort of jamming potentially going on or some sort of spoofing going on on the radar systems

[0:53:56 - 0:54:07] ▶

and then the fourth and by the way do we have low observability we do we've got we've got aircraft that are super sleek and and are hard to see we have stealth bombers right like the B2 bomber and the

[0:54:07 - 0:54:17] ▶

Valkyrie that we have to lower the cross section just a little bit so we can sneak in under the radar

[0:54:17 - 0:54:22] ▶

these things are different when I'm talking about stealth technology we're talking about something fundamentally different and then the fourth observable is something called

[0:54:24 - 0:54:30] ▶

transmemedium travel yes forgive me so what is transmedium travel or it is the ability to operate in multiple domains what's a domain it's an environment so we are seeing these things operating in lower

[0:54:30 - 0:54:44] ▶

atmosphere underwater in the air do we have transmedium technology we do look we've had them for for decades look at a seaplane perfect example a seaplane can fly in the air and it can float on the water

[0:54:44 - 0:54:56] ▶

but let's face it a seaplane is neither a really good plane or really good boat because it's a compromise and so the more

[0:54:56 - 0:55:02] ▶

environments you want to compromise and perform in the more of a sacrifice there is to performance and design it's the reason why the space shuttle

[0:55:02 - 0:55:11] ▶

came in and glided down like a brick it wasn't a very good plane because it was compromised because it spent a lot of its time up in space

[0:55:12 - 0:55:18] ▶

so it's hard to make it's just why this reason why a submarine looks like a submarine and a jet looks like a jet

[0:55:18 - 0:55:23] ▶

because they spend most of their time in that one environment right if you want an object to operate in multiple environments there's more sacrifices to your design and your performance capabilities that's just the way it is we're not seeing that with these uap they are able without having to change a performance or their design they can operate seemingly and seamlessly

[0:55:23 - 0:55:43] ▶

both in air and underwater and possibly even outer space so we're talking about that

[0:55:44 - 0:55:50] ▶

something that's really beyond what we currently have in our inventory and then the last observable which is a terrible word

[0:55:50 - 0:55:57] ▶

in the science community which is anti-gravity yeah but it's not anti-gravity in the literal sense it's it's simply the ability to defy the effects of Earth's gravity

[0:55:57 - 0:56:09] ▶

without the associated technologies so we talked a bit earlier about flight right with we yes

[0:56:10 - 0:56:15] ▶

so there's really only three ways we know how to fly right now and how we can defy Earth's gravity one is through flight itself we just talked about that

[0:56:15 - 0:56:21] ▶

the other way is through buoyancy so think of a hot air balloon think of a helium balloon where you have a cavity and inside that cavity it's less dense than outside and so it will rise to reach as its equilibrium right that's that's how hot air balloons work and then my

[0:56:22 - 0:56:37] ▶

larbalings things like that and then the other way is simple physics force equals mass times acceleration put enough energy behind something and it will go is called

[0:56:37 - 0:56:48] ▶

ballistics right to think of an ICBM in an continental ballistic missile where you put enough thrust behind it and you can have it literally

[0:56:48 - 0:56:54] ▶

counter the effects of Earth's gravity take the thing and something is a baseball take a baseball throw it in here that's that's that is that is ballistic if you will

[0:56:55 - 0:57:03] ▶

energy putting energy into something newton's law of gravity for every action there's equal opposite reaction and it goes in a moves for a little while

[0:57:04 - 0:57:11] ▶

we're not seeing these things don't have any obvious signs of

[0:57:14 - 0:57:16] ▶

lift they don't have any obvious signs of propulsion they don't seem to have a cavity in there for buoyancy

[0:57:17 - 0:57:22] ▶

and yet somehow they are able to defy the natural effects of Earth's gravity so now when you have an object

[0:57:23 - 0:57:29] ▶

that you've detected on radar that you have electro optical data that the pilots reporting and they're fitting into these categories right

[0:57:30 - 0:57:35] ▶

now you realize okay this isn't a drone this isn't a quadcopter this isn't a balloon this isn't you know you're dealing with a

[0:57:35 - 0:57:42] ▶

fundamentally different type of technology and that's that's when a tip really gets involved that's when it's like okay

[0:57:42 - 0:57:48] ▶

we're dealing with something and could it be a red force technology it might but if it is we're in a lot of trouble

[0:57:48 - 0:57:55] ▶

because we've been seeing these things for a very long time over our controlled us airspace over our sensitive military installations

[0:57:55 - 0:58:01] ▶

and so it's obviously from that perspective we it is a national security issue for sure 100% yeah

[0:58:02 - 0:58:08] ▶

now we got into this tango it was a great explanation by the way but we got into this talking about it

[0:58:09 - 0:58:13] ▶

in relation to the caloris incident so what what about that incident and maybe some more details of exactly what

[0:58:13 - 0:58:21] ▶

happened would help here but what about that incident made how put off and jocke phil and these guys go yes

[0:58:21 - 0:58:27] ▶

matches all the observables we think this one's real you'd have to ask them I think it was the evidence

[0:58:27 - 0:58:33] ▶

and the testimony if you will by by uchoa and the military personnel that reported to him

[0:58:34 - 0:58:40] ▶

it was a very well-documented so you know you may consider caloris as almost the

[0:58:40 - 0:58:46] ▶

roswell of brazil it was dead a lot of manpower behind this and you know uchoa was a was a serious

[0:58:46 - 0:58:53] ▶

dude he wasn't you know just some guy who'd flight to phanties a four-star general in brazil yeah

[0:58:53 - 0:58:58] ▶

so you know you you have to look at it from from that perspective you know they're not amateurs by

[0:58:58 - 0:59:05] ▶

buying you stretch so I think that probably is one of the reasons why that but you know that's

[0:59:05 - 0:59:11] ▶

that's just one example that's just an incident that's you know it's at the end of the day it was

[0:59:11 - 0:59:16] ▶

very interesting to me I don't know how valuable it was didn't it didn't change anything for me it

[0:59:16 - 0:59:20] ▶

didn't change my view or my being I you know I've always told people my background I went to college

[0:59:20 - 0:59:26] ▶

to study science I studied microbiology immunology and and parasitology not parasite

[0:59:26 - 0:59:32] ▶

ecology parasite to cytology study parasite to microorganisms and then later in my career I was

[0:59:32 - 0:59:38] ▶

an investigator special agent so you know I was always considering myself just the fax man kind of

[0:59:38 - 0:59:42] ▶

guy I'm not really interested in in you windows and supposition I just just give me the data and

[0:59:42 - 0:59:47] ▶

we'll go with the data speed picture the wrong field for that boy ain't that the true brother man you

[0:59:47 - 0:59:53] ▶

ain't kidding yeah don't I know so again we we tried to approach the uap topic the same as we did

[0:59:53 - 1:00:02] ▶

anything else right whether you're your your hunting terrorists or spies or we were hunting UFOs

[1:00:02 - 1:00:06] ▶

there's there's an applied methodology when you're looking at these things it's not just you know

[1:00:07 - 1:00:11] ▶

grandma saw some lights in the backyard I mean it's just we're well beyond that we're using really

[1:00:11 - 1:00:15] ▶

sophisticated capabilities you know you've got some of the best trained individuals like on the

[1:00:15 - 1:00:20] ▶

spy one radar people don't realize this but the the radar operator on the USS Princeton was also

[1:00:20 - 1:00:26] ▶

top gun trained people think oh only fighter pilots go to top gun know they don't the radar

[1:00:26 - 1:00:30] ▶

operators can also go to top gun and they are there to support these guys who are flying combat

[1:00:30 - 1:00:36] ▶

missions these guys and gals and so I remember Kevin Day actually saying explaining one time that

[1:00:36 - 1:00:43] ▶

it was it was for days it was raining UFOs at the spy one right so what is the spy one radar so

[1:00:43 - 1:00:48] ▶

let's say this is a radar so radar were really invented towards the end of World War II they were

[1:00:50 - 1:00:55] ▶

used to try to identify enemy aircraft that were coming in over the horizon before you could hear

[1:00:55 - 1:01:01] ▶

them before you see them you want to know that they're coming so you don't get surprised but radar

[1:01:01 - 1:01:05] ▶

data back then radar for very primitive they basically sent out a signal and that signal bounced

[1:01:05 - 1:01:11] ▶

off an object and returned back to to to the radar array the radars we have now the multi array

[1:01:11 - 1:01:19] ▶

radars are kind of like a super type of radar where you have rather just one radar you've got

[1:01:19 - 1:01:27] ▶

multiple radars all in different slightly different frequencies so you can get really good pinpoint

[1:01:27 - 1:01:32] ▶

fidelity on what you're trying to track okay and also you can also send these signals way far

[1:01:32 - 1:01:39] ▶

you can you can adjust you know you got to be a little careful with this but there it's it's a lot

[1:01:39 - 1:01:44] ▶

it's a lot smarter technology so you get a lot more fidelity and in this case the spy one radar

[1:01:44 - 1:01:49] ▶

as you see the radar as you see up here in the Princeton this could pick up a baseball at 80,000 feet

[1:01:49 - 1:01:56] ▶

now think about that 80,000 feet right that's that's look if you ain't breathing oh no you're

[1:01:56 - 1:02:03] ▶

you're talking about probably 17 miles away yeah and you're tracking with an electronic

[1:02:03 - 1:02:09] ▶

piece of equipment a baseball I mean that that's and it could probably even do more than that but

[1:02:09 - 1:02:15] ▶

that's that's what that's what they claim and then you have airborne radar right you have like

[1:02:15 - 1:02:20] ▶

for example the e2hakai which is a radar platform flying radar platform if you pull a picture up

[1:02:20 - 1:02:27] ▶

of a e2hakai I can explain that for you a little bit too because it's important because these

[1:02:27 - 1:02:32] ▶

are the radar systems that were being used and are used even today to to prosecute combat missions

[1:02:32 - 1:02:38] ▶

so this is an e2hakai and you can see that big big dish on the top and that's a radar so

[1:02:38 - 1:02:43] ▶

it is a flying radar and you can dial in and tune into you know with great deal of fidelity objects

[1:02:43 - 1:02:50] ▶

and it gives you this air air control and supremacy in the sky when you're flying combat missions so

[1:02:50 - 1:02:56] ▶

you've got sea base radar and airborne radar and some land base radar all detecting the same

[1:02:56 - 1:03:03] ▶

thing while at the same time you have gun camera footage while at the same time maybe

[1:03:04 - 1:03:07] ▶

flare pod footage while at the same time you have you have pilots that are also actually seeing

[1:03:07 - 1:03:13] ▶

this thing so let's let's count these up for a second right so you've got maybe five or six

[1:03:13 - 1:03:19] ▶

sources of information different collection capabilities all reporting the same event

[1:03:19 - 1:03:24] ▶

at the same time at the same place under the same circumstance right so if this was a court of

[1:03:24 - 1:03:31] ▶

laws always right of a total people look we're beyond reasonable doubt I mean this is this is the

[1:03:31 - 1:03:36] ▶

same equipment we use to you know put warheads on foreheads and it works so you know you're

[1:03:36 - 1:03:41] ▶

questioning it now when we're using it for for decades and it works so this is why I think you know

[1:03:41 - 1:03:48] ▶

if a tip contributed anything it it it contributed a level of rigor behind the UAP topic from a

[1:03:50 - 1:03:58] ▶

national security issue and I want to be clear because a lot of people say you know fear mongering

[1:03:58 - 1:04:02] ▶

it's a national security threat I know instead of a threat set us an issue because we don't know

[1:04:02 - 1:04:08] ▶

if it's a threat in in government parlance there's there's it's a very easy it's a very simple

[1:04:08 - 1:04:13] ▶

calculus to determine if something is a threat there's only two pieces it's capabilities versus intent

[1:04:13 - 1:04:19] ▶

now we've seen some of the capabilities we have no idea in the intent so it's impossible to say

[1:04:19 - 1:04:24] ▶

it's a threat and so one of the examples I use a lot of times and I don't mean it to scare people

[1:04:24 - 1:04:32] ▶

but this is kind of how how I see the issue from a national security issue you know you live in a

[1:04:32 - 1:04:38] ▶

beautiful area here I won't say where but people know it's how it's called do you lock your front

[1:04:38 - 1:04:44] ▶

door at night before you go to bed fuck yeah yeah me too me too you know I'm probably most

[1:04:44 - 1:04:48] ▶

Americans even though you don't expect anything bad to happen probably a good idea to lock you

[1:04:48 - 1:04:51] ▶

door before you go to bed yep and some folks may even go the step for step further and they might

[1:04:51 - 1:04:56] ▶

just check their windows to make sure they're locked especially if they live on a lower floor and

[1:04:56 - 1:04:59] ▶

and they might even turn their alarm system on before they go to bed let's say once Sunday morning

[1:04:59 - 1:05:04] ▶

you walk downstairs to have a nice hot cup of coffee or tea and as you walk downstairs you see size

[1:05:04 - 1:05:10] ▶

11 muddy boot prints in your living room carpet that we're not there the night before now no one's

[1:05:10 - 1:05:16] ▶

been hurt nothing's out of place nothing's been stolen but despite you locking the door that

[1:05:16 - 1:05:21] ▶

night before and checking the windows and turning on your alarm system there are now boot prints

[1:05:21 - 1:05:25] ▶

in your living room carpet that we're not there the night before my question to you is is that a

[1:05:25 - 1:05:30] ▶

threat and so my response is it could be if it wanted to be so we should probably figure out how

[1:05:30 - 1:05:35] ▶

they're going to get into the house it's the same thing with this we've got we have these these

[1:05:35 - 1:05:39] ▶

technologies that are being deployed over our controlled US airspace over our most sensitive

[1:05:39 - 1:05:45] ▶

military installations and quite possibly the potentially interfere with our nuclear equities

[1:05:45 - 1:05:49] ▶

is that a problem well if these things had a Russian star on the tail or in North Korean tail

[1:05:50 - 1:05:54] ▶

number you're damn right you have you different pages right you were saying people inside the

[1:05:54 - 1:05:59] ▶

Pentagon though we're kind of like when you when you literally couldn't say it it had a sticker of

[1:05:59 - 1:06:05] ▶

another country on that they're like oh are we worried about anyway right well so it's almost

[1:06:05 - 1:06:09] ▶

like they needed the branding to carry the night just happens in 2022 on ABC yeah secretary of

[1:06:09 - 1:06:15] ▶

the Air Force Kendall said yeah we know they're there but you know this not really a priority right

[1:06:15 - 1:06:20] ▶

now we don't know what we don't know where they're from there's not a priority does that drive you

[1:06:20 - 1:06:23] ▶

nuts well let me ask you this if a submarine were to pop out of the Potomac and it be some sort of

[1:06:23 - 1:06:28] ▶

ballistic submarine that doesn't have a flag on it would that be concern to you yeah absolutely right

[1:06:28 - 1:06:34] ▶

I mean what do you mean it's not a concern because we don't know what that's insane you know how how

[1:06:34 - 1:06:41] ▶

that is the antithesis that's the opposite of national security yes that is most important

[1:06:41 - 1:06:47] ▶

because until you know who's that is it can be a problem yeah and so yeah it drives me crazy

[1:06:47 - 1:06:52] ▶

because you know people say well we have other priorities what other priority do you have then that

[1:06:52 - 1:06:56] ▶

there's a technology that can come in unimpeded anytime anywhere and there's not a damn thing

[1:06:56 - 1:07:01] ▶

you can do about it but because you can't explain it you don't want to have the conversation

[1:07:01 - 1:07:04] ▶

I hate to tell you this but that's a problem yeah now you talk about there being three possibilities

[1:07:05 - 1:07:11] ▶

though with these things that they're benevolent benevolent or they're neutral right I think I

[1:07:11 - 1:07:19] ▶

think one thing that's this interesting point to get into with this is is the nuclear history because

[1:07:19 - 1:07:24] ▶

you just brought up yourself so so let's go there when I look at the different sightings that have

[1:07:24 - 1:07:29] ▶

largely happened not just in America but in other places around the world where these UAP are

[1:07:29 - 1:07:33] ▶

identified it at often military bases where there are nuclear weapons or on tankers like the USS

[1:07:33 - 1:07:40] ▶

Roosevelt or something like that where there are nuclear weapons present carrier carrier carrier

[1:07:40 - 1:07:45] ▶

I'm sorry so when I when I see that I would say I could my Navy buddy would be Tommy yeah I should

[1:07:45 - 1:07:50] ▶

correct him yeah let's say I'm from Jersey yeah don't take it personally but you know when

[1:07:50 - 1:07:55] ▶

when I see these patterns and I see that despite as having this technology since the Manhattan

[1:07:55 - 1:08:00] ▶

project in the 1940s the fact that since Hiroshima and Nagasaki no nuclear bombs have been detonated

[1:08:00 - 1:08:08] ▶

in a war footing type scenario meaning they've been detonated in tests around the world and stuff

[1:08:09 - 1:08:14] ▶

so they've been allowed to happen when I see that and I hear stories like these things are

[1:08:14 - 1:08:19] ▶

fucking with our nuclear reactors and telling us like no no no no like the old Bob Salah story it's

[1:08:19 - 1:08:24] ▶

like they're taking matches out of a hands of a baby it almost seems like they're watching us

[1:08:24 - 1:08:29] ▶

like a god a little bit if this is the case to make sure we don't destroy ourselves so I interviewed

[1:08:29 - 1:08:36] ▶

a number of eyewitnesses regarding that aspect of the phenomenon and that is particularly during

[1:08:36 - 1:08:42] ▶

the Cold War the height of the Cold War they are witnessed in Russia and all scattered across the

[1:08:42 - 1:08:47] ▶

United States and this launch control officer Robert Salahs will never forget this he said well

[1:08:47 - 1:08:52] ▶

James the message I got when they shut our nukes off it's almost like they were taking matches

[1:08:52 - 1:08:57] ▶

out of the hands of a baby you know I tend to think that these it's almost like whoever they are

[1:08:57 - 1:09:06] ▶

be we can get into this later be they future humans be they aliens be they some fucking civilization

[1:09:06 - 1:09:10] ▶

or something it's like they're telling you no no no don't do that you guys have gotten too much

[1:09:10 - 1:09:16] ▶

power that said your argument is more that yo this looks a little more malevolent malevolent to me

[1:09:16 - 1:09:23] ▶

because they're they're basically they're showing us they can take our capabilities and they're

[1:09:23 - 1:09:28] ▶

and they're fucking with whether or not there these things are actually going to go into you know

[1:09:28 - 1:09:32] ▶

whatever the pre-launch codes are then who's to say like they wouldn't go off or something like that

[1:09:32 - 1:09:37] ▶

my point is why would that why would it not have happened then why would it be the pattern that

[1:09:38 - 1:09:44] ▶

literally none of them have gone off since 1946 well we made that decision we made that no

[1:09:44 - 1:09:49] ▶

no one did that but us we decided as a world we're not going to drop them on each other at least

[1:09:49 - 1:09:53] ▶

not yet but let's let's look at this temporally speaking so in 1945 we vaporized almost 800

[1:09:53 - 1:10:02] ▶

thousand souls off this planet yeah dropping two bombs here are shima and under socket okay you

[1:10:02 - 1:10:07] ▶

a p did not stop that they were not there when we were going from the atomic age to the nuclear age

[1:10:07 - 1:10:12] ▶

okay which is by the way it goes from kiloton yield to mega-tun yield right now we have the power

[1:10:12 - 1:10:17] ▶

to literally erase entire cities off the map vaporize completely there were no that there were nowhere

[1:10:17 - 1:10:24] ▶

to be found or stop us from testing these things in the Nevada desert there were nowhere to be found

[1:10:24 - 1:10:29] ▶

to stop the proliferation now of nuclear weapons getting into the hands of countries like oh I don't

[1:10:29 - 1:10:33] ▶

know North Korea right and all these other countries so went from one country us to now everybody's

[1:10:33 - 1:10:37] ▶

got news okay the ones are great guy I trust them yeah that wonderful boy face so and then you look

[1:10:37 - 1:10:48] ▶

at things like three mile island you look at Chernobyl you look at Fukushima they didn't stop

[1:10:48 - 1:10:55] ▶

that right so so there isn't any information to suggest that it's necessarily here to help and

[1:10:55 - 1:11:01] ▶

they haven't stopped you know the world hunger and pandemics and things like that so there really

[1:11:01 - 1:11:08] ▶

isn't a whole lot of information to substantiate that people it feels good oh they're here to take

[1:11:08 - 1:11:12] ▶

matches out of the hands of children but and they always say you know we'll look what happened up in

[1:11:12 - 1:11:16] ▶

up in with with the flight I think it was November flight might be Oscar flight of our nukes

[1:11:16 - 1:11:23] ▶

where entire flight of missiles were brought down offline allegedly by UFO people like oh see

[1:11:23 - 1:11:28] ▶

they're they're they're they're they're they're turning them off yeah but in Russia they turn them on

[1:11:28 - 1:11:32] ▶

right because they have an opposite where we have to put our fingers on the on the proverbial buttons

[1:11:32 - 1:11:35] ▶

they have so they have like a dead man switch their fingers are always on the button that comes off

[1:11:35 - 1:11:39] ▶

that's when they go you know proverbially speaking so you know Russians are very clever yeah

[1:11:39 - 1:11:44] ▶

you know sure assured mutual destruction and so you know and over there their reports of them

[1:11:44 - 1:11:51] ▶

turning them on so so there is nothing to suggest that they're necessarily helping us now let me

[1:11:52 - 1:11:58] ▶

put on two different hats here okay one is a national security hat and by the way it's different

[1:11:58 - 1:12:03] ▶

in the way I feel my I can have two different perspectives and and unbelievable absolutely

[1:12:03 - 1:12:10] ▶

not possible yeah sure so there is my national security hat right okay what do I do see I do see

[1:12:10 - 1:12:16] ▶

these things very interested in our military equities I see their ability to interfere with

[1:12:16 - 1:12:19] ▶

their nuclear capabilities and I see them particularly over our sensitive military installations

[1:12:19 - 1:12:26] ▶

what does that look like to me that looks like preparation of the battle space it looks like ISR

[1:12:26 - 1:12:30] ▶

intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance it looks like an active campaign to understand our

[1:12:30 - 1:12:34] ▶

capabilities now that's my national security hat right so if you're paying me as a three-star

[1:12:34 - 1:12:39] ▶

general to think on behalf of the American people if there's even a 5% chance that things could

[1:12:39 - 1:12:43] ▶

do something bad to us then my job is to make sure that gets down to 0% now let me take that hat

[1:12:43 - 1:12:49] ▶

off for a second to put on my Louis studies on the hat okay do I see any evidence that they're here

[1:12:49 - 1:12:54] ▶

to harm us as a species or whatever it is no I don't I don't but but let me now put on my

[1:12:55 - 1:13:01] ▶

my my special agent hat on right third hat yeah third hat now you've got a whole bunch of them on

[1:13:02 - 1:13:07] ▶

the shelf right so you come to me and you say Lou listen I've got this problem I went to sleep

[1:13:07 - 1:13:13] ▶

last night and I had this crazy experience I woke up and I was being taken somewhere

[1:13:13 - 1:13:18] ▶

somewhere I didn't want to go but I was being taken there okay well that's kidnapping

[1:13:19 - 1:13:24] ▶

federal fellow charlie been taken away from against your will yeah when I was there Lou they were

[1:13:24 - 1:13:28] ▶

they were touching me they were doing these things to me it has scared me okay well that's a salt

[1:13:28 - 1:13:33] ▶

okay another another felony offense keep keep going right so that's not a nice thing and you know

[1:13:33 - 1:13:39] ▶

I've got daughters if my daughter got into an Uber and she wanted to go to the mall and instead

[1:13:39 - 1:13:42] ▶

they took her somewhere else that's kidnapping yes right that's that's not a nice thing you're talking

[1:13:42 - 1:13:46] ▶

about experiencers who say they were abducted right now who claimed that they've been

[1:13:46 - 1:13:50] ▶

abducted right abduction think of the word abduction yeah that's that's a crime that's a felony baby

[1:13:50 - 1:13:54] ▶

did you ever did you ever come across cases that you felt had a great burden of proof evidence

[1:13:54 - 1:14:01] ▶

to prove that that had actually happened because you know how a lot of people are skeptical of this

[1:14:01 - 1:14:05] ▶

and they're fair you and I were having a great conversation before the cameras were rolling

[1:14:05 - 1:14:09] ▶

about how unfortunately in this space so many people are like I just want to fucking believe

[1:14:09 - 1:14:15] ▶

right and they believe everything every single case no matter what it actually sets the

[1:14:15 - 1:14:19] ▶

state but back further it absolutely does and this is where we get into the conversation of true

[1:14:19 - 1:14:24] ▶

believers and true skeptics right they're really one and the same I know they seem opposite

[1:14:24 - 1:14:30] ▶

sides of the spectrum but the mentality mentality is the same and this is not an attack on anybody

[1:14:30 - 1:14:35] ▶

so let me just preface that but a true believer no matter what information you provide them they

[1:14:35 - 1:14:39] ▶

will always always believe that everything they hear is correct and then you have the professional

[1:14:39 - 1:14:45] ▶

skeptic that no matter what evidence is provided they will never accept the fact that their narrative

[1:14:45 - 1:14:50] ▶

could be wrong so those two folks those two sides of the of the of the equation are really never my

[1:14:50 - 1:14:58] ▶

focus people always say well you know you're trying to tell us they're real I'm not trying to tell

[1:14:58 - 1:15:03] ▶

you anything my job is to provide the the data and the facts and allow you guys to decide what it

[1:15:03 - 1:15:09] ▶

means to you and this is why I've always said to people don't shoot the messenger and don't ask me

[1:15:09 - 1:15:14] ▶

what I think because it doesn't matter what I think what matters what you think there's so many

[1:15:14 - 1:15:18] ▶

people in the UFO community that want to tell you what they think because they have the answer

[1:15:18 - 1:15:22] ▶

they have the solution they're the only ones they have a monopoly on thought and unless you agree with

[1:15:22 - 1:15:27] ▶

them then you're crazy right and that's that's across the board I think the approach we need to take

[1:15:27 - 1:15:33] ▶

is look let's put all narratives aside whether they're from outer space to inner space or the space in

[1:15:33 - 1:15:38] ▶

between here are the here are the facts here are the facts of what we are dealing with we are

[1:15:38 - 1:15:44] ▶

dealing with a technology that is real we're dealing with the technology that is interested in our

[1:15:44 - 1:15:48] ▶

equities we are dealing with the technology that can outperform anything we have that we do know

[1:15:48 - 1:15:53] ▶

what do we not know we don't know where they're from we don't know what they want we don't

[1:15:54 - 1:15:56] ▶

let the intent we don't know at all bunch of other stuff we don't know motivation maybe there is no

[1:15:56 - 1:16:00] ▶

motivation right we're looking at things through anthropomorphic eyes you and me are human beings

[1:16:00 - 1:16:04] ▶

so we judge everything based upon it why do we give our dogs people names because we are we are

[1:16:04 - 1:16:11] ▶

whether we realize it or not we are imposing our own understanding of of of what it means to be a

[1:16:11 - 1:16:19] ▶

human onto everything else and presume everything else is like us but that's not necessarily the case

[1:16:19 - 1:16:24] ▶

especially when you're dealing with things like let's say oh I don't know artificial intelligence

[1:16:24 - 1:16:28] ▶

where it's binary there is no motivation intent it just is right and so we have to really

[1:16:28 - 1:16:34] ▶

limit ourselves from going down that temptation of assuming everything is like us everything has

[1:16:35 - 1:16:41] ▶

motivation everything has the same type of desires that we have and we do that all the time we do

[1:16:41 - 1:16:47] ▶

it subconsciously and let me if I can digress here for a second hubris is is is really ultimately

[1:16:47 - 1:16:57] ▶

responsible for this because we are a species where we have pride in ego and we have a narrative in

[1:16:58 - 1:17:03] ▶

our head and rather than in the face of new data in facts reframe our own narrative we reject that

[1:17:03 - 1:17:11] ▶

data and hold on to our own narrative because it's it's it's this is what I believe and therefore

[1:17:11 - 1:17:16] ▶

any new information must be wrong right and let me give you some examples I went to like I said

[1:17:16 - 1:17:22] ▶

University Miami and I've always considered myself a disciple of science I believe in the scientific

[1:17:22 - 1:17:28] ▶

method scientific principles right I believe in physics I believe in mathematics it works and

[1:17:28 - 1:17:34] ▶

when I was in college I learned that it was the Greek so if you look at modern human

[1:17:36 - 1:17:41] ▶

homo sapiens sapiens most anthropologists agree that modern humans have been around for the last

[1:17:41 - 1:17:46] ▶

100,000 to 200,000 years as a modern human being and if you look at that it wasn't until the last

[1:17:46 - 1:17:53] ▶

2,000 years that we realize there's only two dominant life forms on this planet you're either a plant

[1:17:53 - 1:17:58] ▶

or you are an animal who is a Greeks who recognize that and humans being an animal if you look at a 24

[1:17:58 - 1:18:05] ▶

hour clock right so 200,000 years ago and then 2,000 years ago it's really this the last

[1:18:05 - 1:18:09] ▶

10 minutes we realize that and that wasn't until the Renaissance 300 years ago during the days of

[1:18:10 - 1:18:17] ▶

enlightenment that we recognized and discovered an entirely other form of life on this planet that

[1:18:17 - 1:18:23] ▶

we've been sharing all along that is neither plant nor animal and that is the world of fungus and so

[1:18:23 - 1:18:27] ▶

we tap our shelves under shoulders and say wow what a great great discovery and it wasn't until the

[1:18:27 - 1:18:33] ▶

last maybe five seconds of our existence as modern man on this planet last 120 years think about it

[1:18:33 - 1:18:38] ▶

that we had the technology to actually discover the true dominant or alpha life form on this planet

[1:18:39 - 1:18:46] ▶

and in fact if you take all the biomass of every plant and all the biomass of every animal and all

[1:18:46 - 1:18:51] ▶

the biomass of every fungus and add it all up together it still does not add up to this life

[1:18:51 - 1:18:56] ▶

hidden life form that has been on this planet longer than any of us and that is the world of

[1:18:56 - 1:19:01] ▶

microorganisms it's a things that are inside you that make you up that live on the skin of the

[1:19:01 - 1:19:06] ▶

ISS space station and can thrive miles beneath the crushing depth of the Arctic ice it's everywhere

[1:19:06 - 1:19:13] ▶

and it wasn't until we could have the technology to curve glass and look through a little

[1:19:13 - 1:19:16] ▶

metal tube and famously shout the words little beasties little beasties did we discover for the first

[1:19:16 - 1:19:22] ▶

time the true dominant alpha life form on this planet that's been here all along and so until we

[1:19:22 - 1:19:29] ▶

discover the next one until 100% your tracking right until we discover the next one

[1:19:29 - 1:19:36] ▶

and that's why it was oh this is a great discovery in a UAP that mankind no it's not it's just

[1:19:36 - 1:19:41] ▶

just another one we're always if there's one thing mankind is right about is that we're fact that

[1:19:41 - 1:19:46] ▶

we're usually wrong a lot of times when I grew up in science I was told and this is recent all life

[1:19:46 - 1:19:52] ▶

forms are based on ultimately the building blocks of photosynthesis all life form well that's not

[1:19:52 - 1:19:57] ▶

true in fact if you go to the deepest parts of the ocean where there are these things called black

[1:19:57 - 1:20:01] ▶

smokers these vents heat events super heat events underwater volcanic events life is abundant down

[1:20:01 - 1:20:08] ▶

there and it thrives off of a process called chemosynthesis there is no light down there and they're

[1:20:08 - 1:20:13] ▶

thriving because they are metabolizing and getting energy based upon chemosynthesis complete off

[1:20:13 - 1:20:18] ▶

and say the photosynthesis so you know we we keep learning all these these new fundamental realities

[1:20:18 - 1:20:25] ▶

about what life can be and what it can be and then you have you have the what I call the human

[1:20:25 - 1:20:31] ▶

issue because it is definitely a human issue we have five fundamental senses by which we judge

[1:20:31 - 1:20:40] ▶

the universe and if you can't touch it taste it here it smell it etc it's very hard for us to

[1:20:40 - 1:20:47] ▶

understand anything that beyond that and yet the reality is most of the universe lies beyond that

[1:20:47 - 1:20:55] ▶

so what do I mean take my cell phone for example if I had the ability to see a cell phone vision right

[1:20:55 - 1:21:01] ▶

I would perceive the world through Wi-Fi and through 5G and through GPS and I would see a

[1:21:02 - 1:21:08] ▶

completely different reality it's just like you and me sitting here right now I'm using my eyes

[1:21:08 - 1:21:11] ▶

behind you there's a reality that you can't perceive I can see it perfectly and right now behind

[1:21:12 - 1:21:17] ▶

me there's a reality that I can't perceive or interact with but you can right and we're in the same

[1:21:17 - 1:21:21] ▶

place we're in exact same place and there's two completely different worlds that you and I are

[1:21:21 - 1:21:26] ▶

experiencing right now then you have so where I live in Wyoming beautiful night skies and if you

[1:21:26 - 1:21:31] ▶

look at the skies wonderful for a star gazing if you look at that same part of the night sky with

[1:21:31 - 1:21:36] ▶

a radio telescope you're going to see a completely different reality you're going to see nebula and

[1:21:36 - 1:21:40] ▶

you're going to see things gas clouds there in different frequencies that we can't perceive

[1:21:40 - 1:21:44] ▶

and that's reality is where most of the universe lies in the ultraviolet and infrared spectrum

[1:21:45 - 1:21:50] ▶

the x-ray spectrums and that is that's the real universe we see a perceived a tiny tiny tiny tiny

[1:21:50 - 1:21:56] ▶

little sliver of what really is there and we pretend that's well that therefore that's the universe

[1:21:56 - 1:22:02] ▶

no that's actually 0.02 percent of the universe and then you've got a scalability issue okay what

[1:22:02 - 1:22:08] ▶

are you going to say about scalability if you look in any direction around you in space the

[1:22:08 - 1:22:13] ▶

scientists say that the universal horizon of light the farthest we can see into the depths of our

[1:22:13 - 1:22:19] ▶

of our universe is roughly 13.6 to 13.9 billion billion with it be billion light years in any direction

[1:22:19 - 1:22:28] ▶

right and we are this infant testimony spec in the middle what is a light year it is the speed

[1:22:28 - 1:22:33] ▶

the distance that light can travel in one year so let's do the calculation here real quick for

[1:22:33 - 1:22:38] ▶

your audience light travels at 186,000 miles per second okay seven and a half seven and a half

[1:22:38 - 1:22:46] ▶

times around our planet in one second imagine how far you can go in a year and now multiply that by

[1:22:46 - 1:22:53] ▶

13.9 billion so if we are in the middle I can see that way 13.9 billion that way 13.9 billion

[1:22:53 - 1:23:00] ▶

that's roughly 27 billion light years across and that's just the visible universe scientists

[1:23:00 - 1:23:07] ▶

actually believe that there that's only 10 percent of the actual universe and in our in in just

[1:23:07 - 1:23:12] ▶

our universe we can see more stars in our visible universe than there are grains of sand in all the

[1:23:12 - 1:23:21] ▶

beaches in all the world yeah right and so if the universe is actually a hundred billion light years

[1:23:21 - 1:23:27] ▶

across and possibly bigger compared to us that is enormously huge but but then look at

[1:23:27 - 1:23:34] ▶

Avogadro's number real quick and this is important because I'm about to make make make of my point

[1:23:34 - 1:23:39] ▶

here if you compare one hydrogen atom okay to the 20th screen yeah okay good so that that is to the

[1:23:39 - 1:23:50] ▶

power of 23 one times 10 to the negative 23 that is roughly of one one hydrogen atom is roughly

[1:23:50 - 1:24:00] ▶

the same scale and size as to us as we are to the universe meaning we have that infinite amount

[1:24:00 - 1:24:07] ▶

of space and scale inside every single human being but as humans we can only interact with maybe one

[1:24:07 - 1:24:14] ▶

or two orders of magnitude up or down because this is our size right we're kind of smack right in

[1:24:14 - 1:24:21] ▶

the middle of the universal scale if you were to have a scale most of the universe is either too

[1:24:21 - 1:24:26] ▶

big or too small for us to even interact with that's reality that's that is the real realness of

[1:24:26 - 1:24:32] ▶

of the human experience but because we live in this little narrowly defined where we can

[1:24:32 - 1:24:36] ▶

perceive a little bit and we are scale is either too most of the universe too big or too small

[1:24:36 - 1:24:40] ▶

they realize most of reality that's where the universe is and so for us to say that oh well you

[1:24:40 - 1:24:47] ▶

know the only thing right here and you know there's a bunch of nonsense and who he man I mean

[1:24:47 - 1:24:52] ▶

that's that's math that's reality that's real right that's not a little I'm telling you that's

[1:24:52 - 1:24:57] ▶

that's real and so hubris is something that we we have to we have to be careful of because we're

[1:24:57 - 1:25:04] ▶

always trying to squeeze mother nature into a little box that we have invented we've created

[1:25:04 - 1:25:10] ▶

mother nature doesn't operate that way she she she doesn't need to be confined to a box we're

[1:25:11 - 1:25:15] ▶

the ones living in a box we just don't realize we do it to ourselves which means that things that

[1:25:15 - 1:25:20] ▶

we may put outside of our box through Hollywood or stories that we tell such as like alien

[1:25:20 - 1:25:26] ▶

abductions may actually be something that we need to consider because there are things that

[1:25:26 - 1:25:30] ▶

don't have an explanation in our current physical world as we know it that there was there was

[1:25:30 - 1:25:35] ▶

a great quote in your book you talked about the former director of something something at skunk

[1:25:35 - 1:25:40] ▶

works who said impossible is impossible until we fucking done it that's right put the fucking in

[1:25:40 - 1:25:45] ▶

there that's right from yours well you know you understand what I'm saying so these things you had

[1:25:45 - 1:25:50] ▶

to open yourself up to the stuff brother today's today's technology is yesterday's magic yeah and

[1:25:50 - 1:25:56] ▶

that's that's that is that you know everything that we do we're time and time and time and time

[1:25:56 - 1:26:01] ▶

again there we put these limitations we there was a time we said well earth is the only thing

[1:26:01 - 1:26:05] ▶

object that's made of rock and the heavens are up there and there's there's nothing else out

[1:26:06 - 1:26:10] ▶

there and yet this is all the while that we new meteors existed there were come rock for falling

[1:26:10 - 1:26:14] ▶

to earth all the time how do you explain that right from somewhere there was times where we we

[1:26:14 - 1:26:20] ▶

would always presume certain things we'd never break the sound barrier until we did it right there's

[1:26:20 - 1:26:24] ▶

all these things that science has said well we can never do and so we do and then it becomes

[1:26:25 - 1:26:30] ▶

routine and it's not science is fault it's our fault because we make these presumptions and

[1:26:30 - 1:26:34] ▶

assumptions of what life should and could be not realizing that we are overlaying our own human

[1:26:34 - 1:26:40] ▶

experience onto the data so we are by necessity the fact that we're humans we're already polluting

[1:26:40 - 1:26:47] ▶

the data because we have a hard time looking through any other lens than a human lens and so we

[1:26:47 - 1:26:51] ▶

tend to ascribe human emotion human intent human motivation to things that may not be and so back to

[1:26:51 - 1:26:59] ▶

where we're talking about the science and this is why bring up this long drawn out story about

[1:26:59 - 1:27:04] ▶

size and perception and things like that people say what are they from outer space they could be

[1:27:04 - 1:27:09] ▶

but this I've always said it could be from outer space inner space or frankly the space in between

[1:27:09 - 1:27:13] ▶

as you said they are these things interdimensional could be are they aliens from outer space could be

[1:27:13 - 1:27:18] ▶

are they as natural to this planet as we are absolutely as it to the point where now technologically

[1:27:18 - 1:27:24] ▶

we're at a point where we're now beginning to interact with them just like the little beasties

[1:27:24 - 1:27:28] ▶

little beasties could be are these things maybe from underwater because look we've only

[1:27:28 - 1:27:32] ▶

math lesson 10% of the ocean floor we know all the above or all the above right we know more about

[1:27:32 - 1:27:37] ▶

the surface of the moon than the depths of our own oceans I had a submarine commander once tell me

[1:27:37 - 1:27:41] ▶

and he was dead serious it's a little funny out to share with your audience but it's both

[1:27:41 - 1:27:47] ▶

disturbing and funny they were tracking an object these submarines are huge I mean some of these

[1:27:47 - 1:27:52] ▶

are imagine the Empire State Building sideways underwater right these are big big submarines some of

[1:27:52 - 1:27:58] ▶

these 500 feet long right big boys and you're traveling underwater and you pick up something on

[1:27:58 - 1:28:05] ▶

sonar that's traveling roughly between 400 to 500 miles an hour underwater and it's bigger than you

[1:28:05 - 1:28:11] ▶

right oh yeah and so I asked a commander of I mean honest question I was kind of a shock and

[1:28:12 - 1:28:16] ▶

like what in those cases what do you do right he looked at me no he looked at me straight face he said

[1:28:16 - 1:28:22] ▶

we go around like you know I dumb question makes sense yeah I guess I went to you know just like

[1:28:22 - 1:28:29] ▶

that totally like yeah we go around yeah I'm not messing with that either cool so you know there

[1:28:29 - 1:28:35] ▶

there's a lot to this conversation and and the problem is that we're always going back to the

[1:28:35 - 1:28:39] ▶

regional conversation we were having about you know people on both sides of the spectrum skeptics

[1:28:39 - 1:28:43] ▶

and believers both of them are stuck to their own narrative both of them in the face of new

[1:28:43 - 1:28:49] ▶

information even though that we live in a world that's dynamic they are very hesitant to change

[1:28:49 - 1:28:55] ▶

their opinion because they're stuck in a static mindset but the universe isn't static the

[1:28:55 - 1:29:00] ▶

universe is dynamic so we have to recalibrate our the way our way we think we can't think in a

[1:29:00 - 1:29:05] ▶

static way we have to be dynamic with the universe if we want to understand the universe and so

[1:29:05 - 1:29:09] ▶

that's that's kind of my my my philosophical perspective on the topic that's great philosophy I

[1:29:09 - 1:29:16] ▶

I appreciate all the depths of that that's that was I was riveted by some of that again I just

[1:29:16 - 1:29:21] ▶

snoozing taking a nap and I'm not I haven't been snoozing once I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm already

[1:29:21 - 1:29:27] ▶

extremely pissed off that we only have three hours though because like holy shit is there so much

[1:29:27 - 1:29:33] ▶

here like you're saying something every two seconds I'm like oh we could go there we could go there

[1:29:33 - 1:29:37] ▶

we could go there we could go there hey I can come back anytime you want brother all right we are

[1:29:37 - 1:29:41] ▶

well we're definitely doing that but well we'll see we'll see about you what people say on

[1:29:41 - 1:29:46] ▶

item shoot I bought listen listen just don't look at the comment section okay just don't do that

[1:29:46 - 1:29:52] ▶

because people are gonna say what they're gonna say in there but you know it going back to the

[1:29:52 - 1:29:56] ▶

abduction stuff because we keep getting off it did you come across cases that you again it's not

[1:29:56 - 1:30:01] ▶

like you were there so you can't say a thousand percent this happened but did you come across one

[1:30:01 - 1:30:06] ▶

out of the billion people who are like yeah I was abducted and fucked by an alien where you're

[1:30:06 - 1:30:09] ▶

actually like oh wait might happen so for me the most compelling memory go back to data right data

[1:30:09 - 1:30:15] ▶

data data let let the facts be for themselves there was some situations where an individual had

[1:30:15 - 1:30:21] ▶

claimed to come up close and personal with a uap and they sustained a medical consequence now

[1:30:21 - 1:30:26] ▶

I'm not a trained medical surgeon right I'm not but we had people that were medical professionals

[1:30:26 - 1:30:33] ▶

that were supporting us and they were working with individuals who could quantify and qualify

[1:30:33 - 1:30:40] ▶

if they could quantify and qualify medically changes in in the person's physical health

[1:30:40 - 1:30:46] ▶

they they've actually sustained injury so there's there are several doctors I want to be very

[1:30:46 - 1:30:52] ▶

careful because I don't want to mention their names as well I'm publicly allowed to say their names

[1:30:52 - 1:30:55] ▶

because of privacy reasons I don't want them getting slammed and you know harassed but there

[1:30:56 - 1:31:02] ▶

was enough information to substantiate from a medical perspective that we've had military service

[1:31:02 - 1:31:07] ▶

members and intelligence officials intelligence individuals harmed by this thing yeah

[1:31:07 - 1:31:13] ▶

Rendrel Shim 1980 I had Nick Pope in here to break down that whole thing brother those two guys are

[1:31:13 - 1:31:18] ▶

on full 100% medical disability I saw the paperwork from the US government and it says because

[1:31:18 - 1:31:23] ▶

the reason why the medical disability by the US government your tax dollars are paying for it

[1:31:23 - 1:31:28] ▶

because of their involvement in Rendrel Shim and that's just one example thank god it was for

[1:31:28 - 1:31:32] ▶

for senator john late senator john mccain because he was willing for him these guys would have been

[1:31:32 - 1:31:36] ▶

totally toast he was the one who got their medical records that were classified by the air force

[1:31:36 - 1:31:41] ▶

right classifying your medical records who the hell do you who you think you are that you can do

[1:31:41 - 1:31:45] ▶

that anyways it's my medical records they classified him and if it wasn't for john mccain getting

[1:31:45 - 1:31:49] ▶

declassified these guys would be suffering today probably dead yeah so and that's just one

[1:31:49 - 1:31:54] ▶

example I mean there are other individuals I can tell you right now a very senior former senior CIA

[1:31:54 - 1:31:58] ▶

official very very senior like one of the top guys I do not have permission to talk about his

[1:31:58 - 1:32:03] ▶

story but him and his spouse came up close had a very terrifying experience and actually a foreign

[1:32:03 - 1:32:09] ▶

object was removed from from removed from his body from her from her so there was it was a husband

[1:32:09 - 1:32:15] ▶

and wife team okay without saying like what was the what was the need you know it I want to be

[1:32:15 - 1:32:21] ▶

really careful there's hippo and patient confidentiality so I I'm sure that person is going to probably

[1:32:21 - 1:32:26] ▶

at some point come out this is why Congress is now taking this topic seriously because there are

[1:32:26 - 1:32:30] ▶

people like a guess what that senior dude who I know is now coming and telling me about their

[1:32:30 - 1:32:37] ▶

experience people are feeling that's a little bit more safer not to come out and have this

[1:32:37 - 1:32:40] ▶

conversation with the right people we are trying very hard to create an environment where people

[1:32:40 - 1:32:45] ▶

feel safe they can come out and talk about their experiences whether they work on legacy programs

[1:32:45 - 1:32:49] ▶

or that they were a somebody under medical care by the US government you know these are all

[1:32:49 - 1:32:56] ▶

little factoids have most people have no idea even exist well you talk about your own experiences

[1:32:56 - 1:33:03] ▶

too and and it has an effect and you health wise like some of these other ones but it has you

[1:33:03 - 1:33:08] ▶

talked about how you know I guess like shortly after being assigned to this desk for the first

[1:33:08 - 1:33:15] ▶

time you started to notice orbs in your house and in in Kent and your wife did too can you can you

[1:33:15 - 1:33:21] ▶

tell me yeah and let me be clear because I don't I can't tell you with a straight face that they're

[1:33:21 - 1:33:25] ▶

UFO related or they're UFOs I can't all it is good so you're you're open minded on it oh 100%

[1:33:25 - 1:33:30] ▶

brother yeah let me tell you again let's go to the facts right again for this program a tip and

[1:33:30 - 1:33:35] ▶

here's the facts we start seeing these green luminous balls of like diffuse some the size of maybe

[1:33:35 - 1:33:41] ▶

a volleyball some the size of a little baseball and their witness not only by me otherwise I wouldn't

[1:33:41 - 1:33:46] ▶

say anything their witness by my spouse and they're also witness by my kids and even some of our

[1:33:46 - 1:33:50] ▶

neighbors are seeing these balls of like outside your house inside the house inside down the hallway

[1:33:50 - 1:33:55] ▶

just going by almost like a like a really bizarre volleyball up to that side yeah like well but

[1:33:55 - 1:34:02] ▶

remember diffuse right so it's not like it's just but it's the glow pattern comes up to them

[1:34:02 - 1:34:07] ▶

out out here and then so these are being witnessed and at the same time other individuals are

[1:34:07 - 1:34:12] ▶

part of a tip are also having a similar experience so what we do know is that other people in the

[1:34:12 - 1:34:18] ▶

A to program were also experiencing this now could it be could it be ball lightning sure could it be

[1:34:18 - 1:34:24] ▶

saying almost fire sure could it be faulty wiring and now it's it's ionizing the air local around

[1:34:24 - 1:34:28] ▶

it and it's creating these luminous plasma balls 100 percent but makes it interesting is it wasn't

[1:34:29 - 1:34:35] ▶

just us it was other people in a tip who were also experiencing it while they were working in a tip

[1:34:35 - 1:34:40] ▶

before a tip didn't have the problem and after a tip didn't have the problem only during a tip so

[1:34:40 - 1:34:44] ▶

that's the fact but whether they were actually UAP or related UAP I can't tell you that I don't know

[1:34:44 - 1:34:50] ▶

approximately how many times did this happen and over what type of time period we're talking about

[1:34:50 - 1:34:55] ▶

so 2010 to probably 2017 16 probably you know to say like once every couple months people

[1:34:55 - 1:35:08] ▶

like oh then you know every two months no because sometimes you'd see it back-to-back on a couple

[1:35:08 - 1:35:12] ▶

days and then it might be two three four months and then all of a sudden three more days go by and

[1:35:12 - 1:35:17] ▶

you're seeing these green balls of light in the house even in outside as well so there wasn't

[1:35:17 - 1:35:24] ▶

any pattern that's one thing you know obviously trying to find a pattern this is coming every Tuesday

[1:35:24 - 1:35:27] ▶

during random yeah random random and of course we're asleep at night and I'm not at home during the

[1:35:27 - 1:35:32] ▶

day so I'm only seeing them while I'm at home and same with my family my kids are at school my wife

[1:35:32 - 1:35:38] ▶

is working too so it could be in much more frequent but we just weren't there to see it did you

[1:35:38 - 1:35:42] ▶

report this to put off or or Davis or or people in the 18th? Yeah they call it they had a term

[1:35:42 - 1:35:49] ▶

for they call it high-strangeness high-strand what do you mean? I don't know

[1:35:49 - 1:35:53] ▶

I ask them I don't know what the hell it means they call a high-strand okay yeah strange you're right

[1:35:54 - 1:35:59] ▶

did they come in and investigate it though like did they try to set up anything? No they had no

[1:35:59 - 1:36:04] ▶

issue with it at all they said it's very very normal for they said it's normal so someone

[1:36:04 - 1:36:09] ▶

the A-tip team oh yeah I wonder intel guy is now seeing now counter intel yeah I was counter intel

[1:36:09 - 1:36:14] ▶

that's what I'm saying is now seeing orbs in his house while you're working on this project about

[1:36:14 - 1:36:19] ▶

these UAPs right and the team that's in charge of UAPs doesn't want to go investigate that

[1:36:19 - 1:36:26] ▶

no they're saying that they're having the same issue too they're like well what do you want to do

[1:36:26 - 1:36:29] ▶

about it? I don't know I don't know set up a camera goes bus to skip ill-marry in there do something

[1:36:29 - 1:36:33] ▶

right yeah well unfortunately once every few months you get after a lot of cameras I don't have

[1:36:34 - 1:36:38] ▶

a setup like this I can't afford anything this fancy I've listened I'll donate these

[1:36:38 - 1:36:42] ▶

we're gonna find that bear pig in there baby there are there are other individuals that are

[1:36:43 - 1:36:49] ▶

I think going to be coming out of the shadows here soon that will probably also expound upon

[1:36:49 - 1:36:55] ▶

their experiences this is really just kind of the tip of the iceberg unfortunately for us it was

[1:36:55 - 1:37:00] ▶

just orbs for other people that had other experiences not my story to tell I did not experience

[1:37:00 - 1:37:06] ▶

it with them but you know it was it was peculiar it was clear all right real quick I just got

[1:37:06 - 1:37:11] ▶

to go fast from over here I bet well that's because I have them in childhood the first grader I

[1:37:11 - 1:37:17] ▶

I mean I've got to I've got to keep shit simple because I am you know I'm I tell people all the time

[1:37:17 - 1:37:24] ▶

when I walk into a room the IQ drops about 20 points automatically so you know I gotta keep

[1:37:24 - 1:37:29] ▶

I gotta I gotta color by the numbers man otherwise I I can't keep up all right well let's get

[1:37:30 - 1:37:36] ▶

back on we're get over here all right all right we're back Lou one of the things that that you

[1:37:36 - 1:37:42] ▶

laid out throughout your book just for like context I thought was really good was a lot of the

[1:37:42 - 1:37:47] ▶

alleged and I would say even like known history involving UAP that have been witnessed or incidents

[1:37:47 - 1:37:54] ▶

that have occurred and what what you explained is that you once you were first brought into this you

[1:37:54 - 1:38:01] ▶

started going through whatever government documents you could which includes stuff that we could

[1:38:01 - 1:38:06] ▶

all get through FOIA and then also included some things that would be like classified that you

[1:38:06 - 1:38:10] ▶

couldn't yeah there was actually a lot of classified you be surprised there's actually a lot now they

[1:38:10 - 1:38:15] ▶

have since I think tightened the range on it and probably put some restrictions but in the early days

[1:38:15 - 1:38:21] ▶

on the classified system on the high side with high side the top secret system you could just do

[1:38:22 - 1:38:28] ▶

a word search and just you avoid someone we call the dirty words yeah I'm very very hot words but

[1:38:28 - 1:38:33] ▶

man you could find all sorts of great intelligence out there man about these things and it was

[1:38:33 - 1:38:39] ▶

really really helpful it was really helpful how did you know yeah you talked about these hot words

[1:38:39 - 1:38:43] ▶

terms like oh if you do that you're gonna get flagged and called in somewhere and maybe be pulled

[1:38:43 - 1:38:47] ▶

from the program how did you even know what those words were that you asked like how put off

[1:38:47 - 1:38:50] ▶

about that so where I was we knew what some of those hot words would be especially if there were

[1:38:50 - 1:38:57] ▶

people in a legacy capacity that didn't want you know so it was certainly like you know you FO right

[1:38:57 - 1:39:02] ▶

unidentified flying object no surprise air but you could look at things like anomalous

[1:39:02 - 1:39:08] ▶

another would be unidentified aircraft because a lot of time people would write a report saying

[1:39:08 - 1:39:14] ▶

we have an unidentified aircraft doing you know mock 22 right which is no aircraft that is my 22

[1:39:14 - 1:39:20] ▶

or you could also write in for example luminous as a word which is bright right so when you talk

[1:39:20 - 1:39:28] ▶

about luminous object in the sky well you would have luminous and then type in sky and then all

[1:39:28 - 1:39:33] ▶

the reports about something that was luminous in the sky right so there's ways to do it now that

[1:39:33 - 1:39:38] ▶

could be a rocket test rocket right where now you could say well the the rocket I was just

[1:39:38 - 1:39:42] ▶

sending up to 25,000 feet created a luminous halo up in the atmosphere that was observed for the last

[1:39:42 - 1:39:47] ▶

you know for for 120 miles and so that's a rocket test obviously but then when you have others

[1:39:47 - 1:39:52] ▶

where they're talking about luminous balls of light doing other things you know they okay well

[1:39:52 - 1:39:56] ▶

that's that's not our test rocket rockets rockets go in a very specific trajectory right and they

[1:39:56 - 1:40:01] ▶

don't change directions very often so when you're seeing reports of these things maneuvering in a

[1:40:01 - 1:40:07] ▶

certain way over a certain country the problem is it gets kind of kind of difficult because a lot of

[1:40:07 - 1:40:12] ▶

the information is classified because of under the circumstances in which it was collected right so

[1:40:12 - 1:40:17] ▶

we we classify information in this country for two reasons to protect sources and to protect

[1:40:18 - 1:40:23] ▶

it is in fact illegal to to classify information simply for the for the sole purpose of trying to

[1:40:24 - 1:40:33] ▶

hide information that's of either illegal activity or malfeasance or you're even embarrassing to

[1:40:33 - 1:40:37] ▶

the US government you can actually look at I there's a DOD directive I can show you at some point

[1:40:37 - 1:40:41] ▶

if you're interested but the problem is that the government was doing that they were they were

[1:40:41 - 1:40:44] ▶

classifying information simply because they didn't want to tell people the truth about UAP and

[1:40:44 - 1:40:49] ▶

that's a problem and so you have this data that's out there and let's say we get this information from

[1:40:49 - 1:40:54] ▶

a human source we're trying to protect or we have some information from signals intercept over

[1:40:55 - 1:41:00] ▶

a particular country you don't want to broadcast that right you don't want your enemy to know what

[1:41:00 - 1:41:04] ▶

you're doing and what you're doing it so you classify that information but what you can't do is

[1:41:04 - 1:41:09] ▶

classify information that doesn't relate to the protection of sources of method right how does it

[1:41:09 - 1:41:15] ▶

not relate to it though if it's involved with UAP which is like the ultimate like national source of

[1:41:15 - 1:41:20] ▶

the perfect example the fact that North Korea has a nuclear capability that's not classified now

[1:41:20 - 1:41:28] ▶

how those things work and what are they aimed at and how that that's classified yeah that's

[1:41:28 - 1:41:33] ▶

sources and methods but the mere fact that country acts has nukes that's not a classifiable fact the

[1:41:33 - 1:41:39] ▶

mere fact that we're not alone in the universe that's not a classifiable fact right it's it's like

[1:41:39 - 1:41:44] ▶

Galileo when he first proposed that the earth was not the center of the solar system right what

[1:41:44 - 1:41:48] ▶

happened we burned him on the stake right so we had to recant that's not a classifiable fact you

[1:41:48 - 1:41:55] ▶

can't you can't restrict the citizens of a country from knowing forgive the pun and an alienable

[1:41:55 - 1:42:02] ▶

right this is this is this is facts of life of truth so you're telling me that all of our adversaries

[1:42:02 - 1:42:09] ▶

or countries out there that may not be necessarily benevolent if you will you're telling me that any

[1:42:09 - 1:42:15] ▶

weaponry they may have including things that are beyond our imagination right now let me just

[1:42:15 - 1:42:19] ▶

throw an example out there some sort of biological warfare weapon that's not saren gas or something

[1:42:19 - 1:42:24] ▶

more basic that we at least understand you're telling me that all that right now brother look at

[1:42:24 - 1:42:28] ▶

it's not declassified should use a reality right yes it should look the fact of Russian has

[1:42:28 - 1:42:33] ▶

hypersonic weapons that's not they we've admitted that they know it we know it everybody said it

[1:42:33 - 1:42:39] ▶

that we have we news reports on all the time now how they work and how are they deployed and where

[1:42:39 - 1:42:44] ▶

they deployed and what are the capabilities are absolutely keep that classified because we don't

[1:42:44 - 1:42:47] ▶

want the bad guys to know that we know all of that but the mere fact that they exist that's not

[1:42:47 - 1:42:53] ▶

classifiable fact the fact that something exists now you can classify a US capability that exists

[1:42:53 - 1:43:01] ▶

because we don't want to let the bad guys know so what is the difference in the gray area with

[1:43:01 - 1:43:07] ▶

this and that if we think I'm just playing a hot shot sure sure because I want to know all of it

[1:43:07 - 1:43:11] ▶

by the way but if we we have data on uap that we think no one else may have or don't know if other people

[1:43:11 - 1:43:18] ▶

that would keep classified because that's capabilities remember so we're talking about sources

[1:43:18 - 1:43:21] ▶

of methods and some of the methods by which we collect information is very classified where we're

[1:43:21 - 1:43:25] ▶

doing it how we're doing it you don't want the bad guys to know that so you would classify certain

[1:43:25 - 1:43:30] ▶

things regarding capabilities right again North Korea has nuclear warheads we know that

[1:43:30 - 1:43:36] ▶

how they work and how they're used in their technology behind it yeah you protect that of course

[1:43:37 - 1:43:43] ▶

so so there is there is some gray area excuse me and there is also some some there are some incidents

[1:43:43 - 1:43:51] ▶

where the mere fact of something existing can be classified so for example the fact that a US

[1:43:51 - 1:43:56] ▶

government is involved in a particular mission under certain authorities like covert action

[1:43:56 - 1:44:01] ▶

that is kept classified we don't we don't admit that we're involved in that effort okay so you

[1:44:02 - 1:44:07] ▶

can under certain legal circumstances classify information and protect that information but what you

[1:44:07 - 1:44:13] ▶

can't do is classify information that's not really related to source of methods or covert action

[1:44:13 - 1:44:18] ▶

and that is that is trying to hide a fact about something that is not that is not a classifiable fact

[1:44:18 - 1:44:27] ▶

you know it'd be like when the church tried to classify the fact that the earth wasn't the center

[1:44:28 - 1:44:32] ▶

of the solar system well that's that's that's that's reality that's or you know that's our current

[1:44:32 - 1:44:38] ▶

paradigm and so from my my perspective might would rise me every single day isn't the UAP topic

[1:44:38 - 1:44:45] ▶

people think oh UAP it's not it's it's ultimately it's I took an oath to defend this country from

[1:44:45 - 1:44:54] ▶

all enemies foreign and domestic and I've never been relieved of that oath and it turns out that

[1:44:54 - 1:44:59] ▶

in this particular case it was the bureaucracy that that we had some trouble with the government

[1:44:59 - 1:45:05] ▶

the US government is really good at a lot of stuff I mean it's fantastic the best country in the

[1:45:05 - 1:45:09] ▶

world bar none and this country afforded my family opportunities no other country could or would

[1:45:09 - 1:45:14] ▶

so I am extremely loyal to my country I'm extremely loyal to my government I'm extremely loyal

[1:45:14 - 1:45:18] ▶

to the citizens of this country the problem is is that there were there were people in government

[1:45:18 - 1:45:25] ▶

making decisions on behalf of the American people that they had no business making those decisions

[1:45:25 - 1:45:30] ▶

they did not have the authority to do and so for me transparency and accountability if you want

[1:45:30 - 1:45:34] ▶

a government to be accountable you first have to be transparent that's the only way you're going

[1:45:34 - 1:45:38] ▶

to get accountability I had a conversation I'll share with you I've started sharing it

[1:45:38 - 1:45:43] ▶

it's very personal to me so in the book I talk about my my mother passing away my father recently

[1:45:43 - 1:45:50] ▶

passed away a couple years ago sorry no no it's okay and it's it's life you know he'd be literally

[1:45:50 - 1:45:56] ▶

died with his boots on old revolutionary from you dad was a savage dude he was yeah he was

[1:45:56 - 1:46:00] ▶

something else that's tell people who your dad was come on so my dad was a revolutionary he fought

[1:46:00 - 1:46:08] ▶

with Castro against Batista in Cuba and then when Castro and communist he joined the CIA

[1:46:08 - 1:46:14] ▶

program trained in Guatemala and was part of the Bay of Pigs invasion he was a member of the brigade

[1:46:14 - 1:46:20] ▶

2506 served several years in prisons and Castro's jails and came back to the United States

[1:46:20 - 1:46:26] ▶

and you know he he was a wounded soul he experienced things there that I'm sure probably made him do

[1:46:27 - 1:46:37] ▶

certain things later in life incredible human being very hardworking came to this country with

[1:46:37 - 1:46:43] ▶

not a diamondous pocket and and was self-made and all legitimate and he instilled in me the sense

[1:46:43 - 1:46:49] ▶

of patriotism that I have and he always told me things you know about what it is to serve and

[1:46:49 - 1:46:55] ▶

why it's important to serve and sacrifice but my father was also very intelligent he was a you know

[1:46:55 - 1:47:01] ▶

I don't know what happened because I didn't get his brain but my dad was was a intellect

[1:47:01 - 1:47:06] ▶

role as well and I remember so my dad died two father's days ago so father's day a couple

[1:47:06 - 1:47:13] ▶

years ago and towards the end you know he never told me he was he was dying but I could tell I

[1:47:13 - 1:47:19] ▶

could tell he was sick he had cancer but he didn't tell me but towards the end he stopped eating and

[1:47:19 - 1:47:24] ▶

you can see when that starts to take its toll so about a month before he died I had an opportunity

[1:47:24 - 1:47:29] ▶

to go on a road trip with him so he went from Wyoming a month before he died a month before he died

[1:47:29 - 1:47:33] ▶

so we've done my dad was I had cancer a month before I had taken a road trip yeah and he's

[1:47:33 - 1:47:39] ▶

going roadshow so we went to Wyoming all the way down yeah for me I'd be laying in bed and eating

[1:47:39 - 1:47:44] ▶

cheetos and all the crap I'm not supposed to eat and doing all the some of this with you he goes on

[1:47:44 - 1:47:48] ▶

a road trip with his son and we go from Wyoming down to I know Miami right we're all of us Cubans

[1:47:48 - 1:47:53] ▶

with we're all right so we're going to Miami to see the family and about halfway through I think

[1:47:53 - 1:48:01] ▶

we're probably in Kansas somewhere and I asked my dad and and I feel guilty about this because I

[1:48:01 - 1:48:06] ▶

asked him almost flippantly like just to fill in you know that what do you think so I said dad

[1:48:06 - 1:48:13] ▶

what do you think is the greatest threat to humanity non-think it to myself is it a you know

[1:48:13 - 1:48:19] ▶

pandemic is it a disease is it is it warfare is it terrorism my father sat for a moment and he looked

[1:48:19 - 1:48:26] ▶

at many said corruption and I said corruption like what financial corruption you said no no no

[1:48:26 - 1:48:33] ▶

corruption corruption is the act of sacrificing or giving away a core value you have in exchange

[1:48:34 - 1:48:43] ▶

for something else so whether it's financial corruption religious corruption governmental corruption

[1:48:43 - 1:48:47] ▶

moral corruption you are you are trading away a more a core value in exchange for something and so

[1:48:47 - 1:48:54] ▶

in government when you do that no matter what where it is you if you are corrupting government you

[1:48:54 - 1:49:01] ▶

start chipping away at the very foundation of what democracy is and my father warned me says son

[1:49:01 - 1:49:06] ▶

to very slippery slope from that to tyranny it happens fast believe me it happens fast so

[1:49:06 - 1:49:12] ▶

so we have an obligation in this country this is a country where we have a government for the people

[1:49:13 - 1:49:17] ▶

and by the people this is a government where if you're working in government your job is to serve the

[1:49:17 - 1:49:23] ▶

interests of the American people not the other way around but people forget that in government they

[1:49:23 - 1:49:27] ▶

start to think no actually you know this is this is this is this is my job and I can start making

[1:49:27 - 1:49:32] ▶

decisions and when they start making decisions on behalf of the American people that are not allowed

[1:49:32 - 1:49:36] ▶

to for example in this particular topic UAP where you have people not informing members of congress

[1:49:36 - 1:49:42] ▶

who haven't need to know who are supposed to know they're not informing the chain of command and

[1:49:42 - 1:49:45] ▶

they're not informing the president of the United States that's a problem that's illegal you cannot

[1:49:45 - 1:49:50] ▶

do that right and either this country either this constitution and these rules mean something or

[1:49:50 - 1:49:55] ▶

they don't and my response and look if the rules don't apply anymore that's fine just tell the

[1:49:55 - 1:50:00] ▶

American people because we know how to fix that shit trust me we're pretty good at that so

[1:50:00 - 1:50:03] ▶

you know but don't do these rules apply to the and not to me especially in government you

[1:50:04 - 1:50:09] ▶

having moral responsibility you work for the people and if you forget that then you got to get

[1:50:09 - 1:50:14] ▶

the hell out of government that is not that is and this is for me this is part of transparency

[1:50:14 - 1:50:19] ▶

and accountability it's not just the UAP issue people are the UFO guy not not that's that's one

[1:50:19 - 1:50:24] ▶

thing I am I am for government accountability and transparency because that's the only reason

[1:50:24 - 1:50:28] ▶

why this government works that is the only reason we have faith and and and are are the

[1:50:28 - 1:50:34] ▶

faith and confidence in this government that is the only reason why we have it because it is

[1:50:35 - 1:50:39] ▶

supposed to be working the right way and when it doesn't because a few people make a unilateral

[1:50:39 - 1:50:43] ▶

decision that they don't want it to that's a problem okay I appreciate that and it's interesting

[1:50:43 - 1:50:50] ▶

though to hear the depth that I explanation though and but before I go into what I'm gonna go

[1:50:50 - 1:50:55] ▶

into I do want to say you allegedly left the Pentagon in 2017 do you guys ever really leave come on

[1:50:55 - 1:51:04] ▶

you did say you haven't given up that oath or so didn't you say that like 10 minutes ago last

[1:51:04 - 1:51:09] ▶

he's like I still have never given up that look I said this before I still maintain my security

[1:51:09 - 1:51:13] ▶

clearance and I do consult with the US government on an as needed basis I've always made that very

[1:51:13 - 1:51:18] ▶

clear I've never hid that fact he has never hidden that I'll show but what I'm gonna say is that

[1:51:18 - 1:51:24] ▶

you have any disclosure that you've done including this book and everything since 2017 you've

[1:51:24 - 1:51:30] ▶

been very careful to do everything in a legal manner 100% your colleague Chris Mellon when he walked

[1:51:30 - 1:51:36] ▶

the paperwork into the New York Times in 27 was able to do that because of I forget the name of the

[1:51:36 - 1:51:41] ▶

law and the stipulation but because of a recent stipulation had been correct passed in Congress that

[1:51:41 - 1:51:45] ▶

allowed him to do that obviously this is something you were involved with so you guys have done it

[1:51:45 - 1:51:48] ▶

by the letter of the law I do need to say that however you talk about a government for the people

[1:51:48 - 1:51:54] ▶

and by the people and that you have I believe you phrased it's something like a moral responsibility

[1:51:54 - 1:52:00] ▶

to report to people if something has been done that is compromising that and yet you are also a guy

[1:52:00 - 1:52:07] ▶

who has strong criticism of Edward Snowden now let me be very frank on how I look at Edward Snowden

[1:52:07 - 1:52:14] ▶

I look at him as being stuck between a shit and a fart okay slippery slopes on both ends on one

[1:52:14 - 1:52:19] ▶

end he sees the United States Constitution being trampled on by the government through some

[1:52:19 - 1:52:24] ▶

weird legal maneuvers that basically obfuscated what they were really doing from the courts and when

[1:52:24 - 1:52:29] ▶

he did try to take that up with chain of command they told him fuck off get out of here so that's

[1:52:29 - 1:52:34] ▶

one problem on the other hand though the minute he goes and reports something and breaks his oath

[1:52:34 - 1:52:38] ▶

right he he had an oath that said I swear to secrecy anything them told to keep secret in the government

[1:52:38 - 1:52:44] ▶

he is now like maybe his situation is good enough to do that but he now sets a precedent where the

[1:52:44 - 1:52:49] ▶

next person can say oh I reported what I reported because Snowden did it and maybe there's is 99.9

[1:52:49 - 1:52:56] ▶

percent the importance of his and so on down and eventually you know you're down at 1 percent and

[1:52:56 - 1:53:00] ▶

people are reporting everything that happens in government so either way it's a problem however

[1:53:00 - 1:53:05] ▶

if you have that moral obligation like you said could you not see how someone like Snowden

[1:53:05 - 1:53:12] ▶

felt the way he did totally different scenario from UIP to be sure very fair here but felt the way

[1:53:12 - 1:53:18] ▶

he did from a constitutional perspective to come out and make that type of a deal no problem with

[1:53:18 - 1:53:22] ▶

the way son felt I have a problem with what Snowden did he took his information and gave it to

[1:53:22 - 1:53:27] ▶

the Russians that's the problem he gave it to the Russians yes that's the problem he didn't come

[1:53:27 - 1:53:32] ▶

out and whistle blow he came out and spy he leaked information classified information I've never

[1:53:32 - 1:53:37] ▶

done that I've never reported to do it I don't support it we mean the leak to the Russians brother

[1:53:37 - 1:53:42] ▶

that's why he went to Russia for to well his plane got down by at the time vice president Joe Biden

[1:53:42 - 1:53:47] ▶

he was flying brother he's living in Russia I know but he was fine protection I know but he was

[1:53:47 - 1:53:51] ▶

flying from Hong Kong to Ecuador and his plane got down in Russia you know what he had with him

[1:53:51 - 1:53:57] ▶

right he he gave up that it wasn't just a Julian Assange this is not like like private manning did

[1:53:57 - 1:54:03] ▶

where you know they were just trying to expose some things but by the way was still wrong

[1:54:03 - 1:54:06] ▶

yeah right way in wrong way different situation yeah he actually compromise people who died

[1:54:06 - 1:54:11] ▶

and that is a problem there there are people who are no longer alive right now so that's been

[1:54:11 - 1:54:16] ▶

that's been disputed though that there's that there's people that say that there's no one who

[1:54:16 - 1:54:19] ▶

died as a result no there he may have risked it no there there there are there are there are

[1:54:19 - 1:54:23] ▶

sir I can't go into details there are sources who died and so from my perspective I never

[1:54:23 - 1:54:28] ▶

took this information around to the hills first of all everything I've discussed has always been

[1:54:28 - 1:54:32] ▶

unclassified and if I wasn't sure I went to the Pentagon and I asked so there is a big difference

[1:54:32 - 1:54:37] ▶

between going and running from your country taking a bunch of classified information with you

[1:54:37 - 1:54:41] ▶

and releasing that I never did that and I never will do that and never have done that and I think

[1:54:41 - 1:54:45] ▶

anybody who does that should go to jail okay what I've done is to have the conversation I've used

[1:54:45 - 1:54:50] ▶

the system to my advantage and to all of our advantage I believe I hope and if you look at the

[1:54:50 - 1:54:55] ▶

track record I think it's fair to say that we have by doing it the right way look no one's gone

[1:54:55 - 1:54:59] ▶

the jail and look how far we are we now have Congress involved we now have an arrow established we

[1:54:59 - 1:55:03] ▶

now have rules and laws on the books right we have whistleblower protection we have we have

[1:55:03 - 1:55:08] ▶

right now new legislation that's being proposed right now as part of the new NDAA that's in the

[1:55:08 - 1:55:12] ▶

last seven years brother think about it we have gone further in disclosure in seven years than

[1:55:12 - 1:55:16] ▶

the last 70 and we didn't have to break any rules we did it the right way no one's gone the jail

[1:55:16 - 1:55:21] ▶

and we can still still have this conversation so you know I there's there's I've always said there's

[1:55:21 - 1:55:28] ▶

a difference between doing things right and doing them right now and I think if you have only one

[1:55:28 - 1:55:33] ▶

chance to do it right then we need to do it that way now could I be wrong sure are there other people

[1:55:33 - 1:55:38] ▶

that would have a difference of opinion and think it should be done the other way sure am I

[1:55:38 - 1:55:41] ▶

responding to be my guest do you want to do what you want to do yeah like like I said it it does

[1:55:41 - 1:55:46] ▶

need to be said that if you're if you're looking at the record of what we know publicly about you

[1:55:46 - 1:55:52] ▶

and about the people involved the things have been done more by the book and there's some there's

[1:55:52 - 1:55:56] ▶

something to be said for that for sure and I also think you know this is also I don't I don't want

[1:55:56 - 1:56:02] ▶

to delegitimize it or anything by any means but it's also such a pop culture phenomenon too

[1:56:02 - 1:56:08] ▶

because people are like I want to know right so you can kind of develop and this doesn't always go

[1:56:08 - 1:56:14] ▶

the right way but you can develop like a fanboy syndrome where people want to know more they want

[1:56:14 - 1:56:18] ▶

to know more and you're going to give it to them and that's 100% and that's why no that's a problem

[1:56:18 - 1:56:22] ▶

brother and this is this you're hitting the nail in the head for me if I if I can please please

[1:56:22 - 1:56:26] ▶

in here you know people confuse a messenger with a message all the time and and this is this is one

[1:56:26 - 1:56:32] ▶

of my personal struggles with people because people will see someone in a and I'm sure this happens

[1:56:32 - 1:56:40] ▶

with you too right that you have this persona that they have in their mind of you of what you're

[1:56:40 - 1:56:44] ▶

what you're doing and then all of a sudden you know you become the more important thing than what

[1:56:44 - 1:56:51] ▶

it is you're trying to communicate and from my perspective I try to remind people look I'm just

[1:56:51 - 1:56:55] ▶

like you I have I have the same issues as you I pay my bills like you I've been saying biases you

[1:56:55 - 1:57:01] ▶

I've I'm just a normal shmo the only differences I was in a position where I felt I needed to do

[1:57:01 - 1:57:07] ▶

something about it I'm not a hero I tell people that all the time I have this horrible and

[1:57:07 - 1:57:11] ▶

posture syndrome that I have because people say oh you're a hero no I'm not a hero because I

[1:57:11 - 1:57:14] ▶

serve with heroes and a lot of them didn't come back so I know what a real hero is and I'm not

[1:57:14 - 1:57:18] ▶

a hero I'm just a guy finishing the job that he was given to begin with and frankly there's

[1:57:18 - 1:57:24] ▶

probably always told people this before anybody else in my situation including you or anybody else

[1:57:24 - 1:57:29] ▶

who took the same oath I did and was in my job would have probably done exactly the same thing I did

[1:57:29 - 1:57:33] ▶

and arguably you might have even done a better job than me so I just happen to be the guy in the

[1:57:33 - 1:57:38] ▶

in the chamber at the time and you know okay guys here's the reality of things but by no means

[1:57:38 - 1:57:45] ▶

it you know I people say well you're you're leading this disclosure effort I sure hope not I

[1:57:45 - 1:57:50] ▶

really do because I'm not the guy for that this is a relay race and my job is just to carry the

[1:57:50 - 1:57:56] ▶

baton but as far as I can here you go you know I'm I'm not I'm not the guy who's going to win the race

[1:57:56 - 1:58:02] ▶

I'm just one of the guys in a long chain to get us where we are look you're just a part of this

[1:58:02 - 1:58:08] ▶

chain as I am you're having this conversation with people right now in your audience you have a

[1:58:08 - 1:58:13] ▶

global reach now think about that for a second think about that responsibility you today's day

[1:58:13 - 1:58:18] ▶

and age right now have a larger global audience than many of the world leaders just 10 years ago

[1:58:18 - 1:58:25] ▶

you have that right so so you are very much part of this this effort as well so I just one dude

[1:58:25 - 1:58:33] ▶

just like you're just one dude but we also all and this includes you too we also don't

[1:58:33 - 1:58:37] ▶

we don't want to be a useful idiot in that as well you know what I mean you can only know what you

[1:58:39 - 1:58:43] ▶

know I mean really from my seat because I literally sit in an armchair here you've at least

[1:58:43 - 1:58:47] ▶

been on the inside but have you ever thought about that too because it's not like you were

[1:58:47 - 1:58:50] ▶

head of the CIA or something you were high up or whatever but have you thought about the idea

[1:58:50 - 1:58:55] ▶

that maybe you were given access to things like and I'm not delegated advising you as

[1:58:55 - 1:59:00] ▶

I'm saying like oh like let's drop some nuts and let's get the best squirrel that we know is

[1:59:00 - 1:59:05] ▶

yeah to manipulate yeah then we can manipulate them to go and put a message that's always a

[1:59:05 - 1:59:08] ▶

possibility but then you're talking about a conspiracy on a level that would that would be it

[1:59:08 - 1:59:14] ▶

would be so cost prohibitive and the coordination so tight because most of these people like me had

[1:59:14 - 1:59:19] ▶

access to just about let me almost everything so you would have to keep a long running secret and

[1:59:19 - 1:59:24] ▶

you'd have to backstop it for years beforehand like decades yes if you wanted to execute this and

[1:59:24 - 1:59:28] ▶

then you have to ask the reason why why there's so much easier ways to do it if you want more funding

[1:59:28 - 1:59:34] ▶

for space technology oh you gotta say look there's what the Russians are doing okay here's your money

[1:59:34 - 1:59:40] ▶

you don't you don't got to go through this elaborate dance and you know hire a bunch of people to

[1:59:40 - 1:59:46] ▶

pretend that they saw something and make fake radar footage and make fake flare videos and make

[1:59:46 - 1:59:51] ▶

fake you know the gun camera footage I mean that's why there's so much simpler ways to do it you

[1:59:51 - 1:59:56] ▶

know and more effective ways you would spend more money creating this illusion than you would ever get

[1:59:56 - 2:00:02] ▶

as an end result trying to fund some sort of program it doesn't make financial sense you're

[2:00:02 - 2:00:07] ▶

gonna spend a billion dollars to make a million just tell them the UFOs are eating the dogs they're

[2:00:07 - 2:00:12] ▶

eating the cats I'm not going there with 10 foot pole that's okay I had to throw that one in there

[2:00:12 - 2:00:25] ▶

I see what you're saying though I think I think that's I think that's a fair point it's like why would

[2:00:25 - 2:00:29] ▶

you why would you go away from what works just for the sake of doing it it's been proven over and

[2:00:29 - 2:00:34] ▶

over again it's not like the military industrial complex has a problem saying yes to a bill if it's

[2:00:34 - 2:00:38] ▶

a threat from another country that's right that's I mean it's that's what make that's what funds

[2:00:38 - 2:00:42] ▶

the war machine why why would you come up with some cockamé me elaborate I mean first of all

[2:00:42 - 2:00:46] ▶

anyone who'd approve that would be moron I mean I'm like I'm sorry that's a big no you know

[2:00:46 - 2:00:52] ▶

and oh by the way if it ever comes out because eventually will if that was a case then we're all

[2:00:52 - 2:00:56] ▶

going to jail yeah but you also with this topic because of the nature of its relation to

[2:00:56 - 2:01:01] ▶

meaning of life if you will you know you ran into a problem in the Pentagon that I mean you

[2:01:01 - 2:01:08] ▶

described it as like mind blowing to you that this would ever happen and it's mind blowing to me too

[2:01:08 - 2:01:13] ▶

which is like with the quote unquote Collins elite so you at some point within a tip growing as a hub

[2:01:13 - 2:01:22] ▶

within there you started to run into people where you you didn't the way you described in your

[2:01:22 - 2:01:28] ▶

book is that you didn't necessarily know who they were they almost operated silently where there

[2:01:28 - 2:01:33] ▶

was a large contingent in this 22,000 person fucking place the Pentagon that had their biblical beliefs

[2:01:33 - 2:01:40] ▶

dictate how they wanted to handle something like this which was really in a lot of ways to say

[2:01:41 - 2:01:46] ▶

don't handle it and I believe there was there was one guy who you had previously respected who at

[2:01:46 - 2:01:52] ▶

some point and so respect by the way so respect that okay so he pulled you aside at one point and

[2:01:52 - 2:01:57] ▶

said Lou you're getting into demonic shit here if you read your Bible lately and you're looking

[2:01:57 - 2:02:01] ▶

at him as an intel guy whose job is national security going I'm sorry my Bible right like that do

[2:02:01 - 2:02:07] ▶

you understand why at home this seems wild to someone like me or a lot of people listening that like

[2:02:07 - 2:02:12] ▶

a religious belief is going to look now but when's the last time you pull the dollar out of your

[2:02:13 - 2:02:17] ▶

pocket what did say in there in God we trust yeah I mean look I hate to break it to you but

[2:02:17 - 2:02:22] ▶

you know a lot of a lot of our country was based on certain moral principles and even religious values

[2:02:23 - 2:02:28] ▶

that's a fact you know there's a reason why we have a national cathedral right and things like that

[2:02:28 - 2:02:34] ▶

doesn't that's not a bad thing you know this country is it's okay to have faith in this country in fact

[2:02:34 - 2:02:40] ▶

I'm a man of faith I don't wear my religion on my sleeve and I'm very personal about it and

[2:02:40 - 2:02:45] ▶

people know when you read my book I was raised Jewish that's that's that's way I was raised I went

[2:02:45 - 2:02:50] ▶

to Hebrew school in war Yamaha and on my father's side they were they were Catholic so my mother's

[2:02:50 - 2:02:57] ▶

side that she chose to raise me Jewish I don't have a problem with faith in fact I think faith is

[2:02:57 - 2:03:03] ▶

important to get people sure through a lot of things what I have a problem with is when people

[2:03:03 - 2:03:07] ▶

overlay their faith on a national level security issue now is it that's trained that that

[2:03:09 - 2:03:16] ▶

happens no we have we have national prayers all the time that our presidents lead right so

[2:03:16 - 2:03:21] ▶

faith is important in our country and I'm not blaming anybody if they believe that these

[2:03:21 - 2:03:25] ▶

things are demonic or their anti-Christian and by the way I don't want to villainize a

[2:03:25 - 2:03:29] ▶

Christian's ear because it's not a Christian issue yeah neither am I yeah yeah yeah no I got it

[2:03:29 - 2:03:33] ▶

but I guess I want to make clear that look extremism by any other word is still extremism whether

[2:03:33 - 2:03:39] ▶

it's Muslim extremism Christian extremism Judaism is Judaism extremism is extremism we can all agree

[2:03:39 - 2:03:44] ▶

on that my and that's my concern it's when people that are in the government are exercising their views

[2:03:44 - 2:03:52] ▶

in a way that's unilateral without allowing other people to be part of that conversation that is

[2:03:52 - 2:03:57] ▶

a problem for me now you I've have believed faith is great to have and if it is a moral compass

[2:03:57 - 2:04:03] ▶

for you fantastic but I don't think that we have the right to impose our religious views in a decision

[2:04:03 - 2:04:09] ▶

process over other people who may not share that look there's two this is I I often try to explain

[2:04:09 - 2:04:15] ▶

to people there's really two types of truth in the world because we'll say oh there's only one truth

[2:04:15 - 2:04:18] ▶

no that's not true there's actually two types of truth in the world there is a universal truth like

[2:04:18 - 2:04:23] ▶

gravity right in fact just all the same then there's a personal truth personal truth is like

[2:04:23 - 2:04:29] ▶

religion or politics right it can be just as truthful to you as gravity but it might not be to him

[2:04:29 - 2:04:36] ▶

it's a personal truth and it may not be backed by the evidence and it might not might or might not

[2:04:36 - 2:04:41] ▶

be backed by the evidence and so we have to understand what we can't do is apply a personal truth

[2:04:41 - 2:04:46] ▶

in a universal decision a universal truth like gravity yes but you cannot this white whether it's

[2:04:47 - 2:04:53] ▶

political or religious or anything else a personal truth should never be be used in a decision

[2:04:53 - 2:05:00] ▶

that affects affects more than yourself and this it's hard to do it's hard to do because you

[2:05:01 - 2:05:06] ▶

think you're doing the right thing you think everybody feels that way and everybody's like you but

[2:05:06 - 2:05:09] ▶

they're not and that's what we have to avoid this is part of that human experience again right

[2:05:09 - 2:05:14] ▶

yes we're we're we're looking through a lens that say well this is my personal truth and it's a

[2:05:14 - 2:05:19] ▶

universal truth oh is it really though it's a personal truth but is it really a universal truth

[2:05:19 - 2:05:24] ▶

yeah if it's not then maybe you should try to remove that personal truth out of the equation

[2:05:24 - 2:05:29] ▶

and just stick to the universal truth and but that's hard to do because a lot of people don't even

[2:05:29 - 2:05:33] ▶

know the difference I don't look I don't care if you're liberal or conservative or anywhere in

[2:05:33 - 2:05:36] ▶

between people have their opinions and man there are people that are really believe in their

[2:05:36 - 2:05:41] ▶

opinions they're willing to do extreme stuff because their personal truth they think is a universal

[2:05:41 - 2:05:45] ▶

truth man and they do things that don't think for one second somebody who who hate to be crude here

[2:05:45 - 2:05:54] ▶

but burns himself alive in protest that's a universal truth for them even though for us it may be

[2:05:54 - 2:05:59] ▶

a personal truth I mean they are willing to give their lives for it right right so we have to

[2:05:59 - 2:06:04] ▶

understand that and in in government so different religions are different you know where where

[2:06:04 - 2:06:10] ▶

personal truth becomes a universal truth there's a reason why ISIS felt the way they did because

[2:06:10 - 2:06:15] ▶

you know they think well the whole world needs to be the way this is universal truth and I'm not

[2:06:15 - 2:06:19] ▶

I'm not bashing on anybody who's Muslim most of my friends were Muslim in college but extremism

[2:06:19 - 2:06:25] ▶

again is extremism whether it's Muslim extremism Christian extremism Judaism you know today's extremism

[2:06:25 - 2:06:30] ▶

that doesn't matter what it is and then you have governmental extremism and that's also a problem

[2:06:30 - 2:06:36] ▶

how much did they impact how much was that a constant thorn in your side with as it pertains to

[2:06:36 - 2:06:43] ▶

actions that could or could not be taken by a tip you know what there was some people I won't say

[2:06:43 - 2:06:48] ▶

the person's name there was another individual that was part of the Undersecretary Defense for

[2:06:48 - 2:06:52] ▶

Intelligence who's very well known very vocal about his personal views religious views and

[2:06:52 - 2:06:56] ▶

he made decisions based off of it you know I again it's one of those things it didn't it didn't affect

[2:06:56 - 2:07:05] ▶

us other than maybe for funding but I did not I did not feel day to day that there was this

[2:07:05 - 2:07:12] ▶

pressure by them it was we got up to a certain point they kind of say stop here yeah

[2:07:12 - 2:07:17] ▶

whoa okay and we didn't we didn't stop so you know other than a curiosity of saying wow that's

[2:07:17 - 2:07:25] ▶

interesting I actually came face to face with one of these guys it did not I don't think it really

[2:07:25 - 2:07:30] ▶

impacted now those other people they stepped up will probably violently disagree like oh man these

[2:07:30 - 2:07:35] ▶

are the ones these are guys that created such a headache for us and they did they did they I

[2:07:35 - 2:07:40] ▶

mean I think that story will probably come out at some point they they did make our life hell for a

[2:07:40 - 2:07:44] ▶

while ironically enough right but it didn't it didn't affect me that much personally well one of

[2:07:44 - 2:07:55] ▶

the arguments a lot of people who may be purely on their religious side make is that you know

[2:07:55 - 2:08:01] ▶

they'll point to the fact that we have no physical evidence of this stuff it just leaves a mark

[2:08:01 - 2:08:04] ▶

so it's a demonic creature and you know look a Leviticus 1015 it'll tell you that's why that

[2:08:04 - 2:08:09] ▶

holds right there in in the wheat field or whatever but you don't religion itself what what

[2:08:09 - 2:08:16] ▶

factor they basically in other than scripture I mean religion self-to-state exactly right religion

[2:08:16 - 2:08:21] ▶

itself is belief in the supernatural whether you like it or not yes and it's not a bad thing it's

[2:08:21 - 2:08:26] ▶

just it is and so there's no evidence that you have right now it's a story that someone written

[2:08:26 - 2:08:31] ▶

down and you decide to accept it as truth but and by the way that's a personal truth right that you

[2:08:31 - 2:08:36] ▶

feel as a universal truth but at the end of the day you don't have evidence you weren't there you

[2:08:36 - 2:08:40] ▶

didn't see the parting of the waters you didn't see the marbles and the water and the wine you weren't

[2:08:40 - 2:08:46] ▶

there agreed entirely and to your point that you brought up early in the conversation it can

[2:08:46 - 2:08:50] ▶

exist on the other side of this with a religion and UFOs or something saying like oh were you there

[2:08:50 - 2:08:54] ▶

in Virginia in 97 that's right you know what I mean that's right so which by the way can I you

[2:08:54 - 2:08:59] ▶

make a really good point which is I think it's something I've never really addressed

[2:08:59 - 2:09:02] ▶

if we're not careful with this uap topic if it hasn't already started to it could become a

[2:09:03 - 2:09:09] ▶

religion and we need to avoid that oh it has started duck hope not because that is that is not

[2:09:09 - 2:09:14] ▶

the intent of these conversations and it should not be it should not be a religion and I am concerned

[2:09:14 - 2:09:21] ▶

that in 20 30 40 years 100 years 200 years from now it could very well be a religion and it should

[2:09:21 - 2:09:26] ▶

not be a religion yeah Lou I think it I think it already has become that way and I think you're actually

[2:09:26 - 2:09:32] ▶

a I guess like unwitting guinea pig with that unfortunately because again you talked about being

[2:09:32 - 2:09:38] ▶

the messenger with you know just delivering a message here and there's people who view that as

[2:09:38 - 2:09:44] ▶

prophetic on the other end of it there's people that also view that as whatever the opposite is you

[2:09:44 - 2:09:48] ▶

know like the devil so when I look at you this is a good time to go into this to really address

[2:09:48 - 2:09:54] ▶

like head on where you're coming from in the past episode 151 I had Ron James in here who's

[2:09:54 - 2:09:59] ▶

talked with you before for his documentary and then episode 179 I had a Nick Pope I think like three

[2:09:59 - 2:10:06] ▶

hours in the Nick Pops we talked about yours Nick is another guy who comes from government or whatever

[2:10:06 - 2:10:11] ▶

and in in these conversations and in some others a point where I've been critical of you is based

[2:10:11 - 2:10:16] ▶

on the words that you've said yourself in the past and actually said to me before we we were on

[2:10:16 - 2:10:20] ▶

air today which is that you know this is a fact like you are an intel guy right so I always

[2:10:20 - 2:10:25] ▶

joking I am I'm like all right Fed like what do we got right here but online you see two things you

[2:10:25 - 2:10:31] ▶

either see people who are like no he's been sent by God you know not literally God himself to

[2:10:31 - 2:10:36] ▶

deliver the great word a few a p and then you have people on the other side who are going who are

[2:10:36 - 2:10:42] ▶

like you know abolish every three letter agency this is our scumbag Fed coming out here and doing

[2:10:42 - 2:10:47] ▶

whatever I was more in the middle in the sense that I'm like okay maybe he just really is a part

[2:10:47 - 2:10:52] ▶

of an op and he's read in on things that I'm not so maybe there's a good reason for that but I

[2:10:52 - 2:10:57] ▶

don't fucking know so my job is not to sit here therefore and believe what he says because again

[2:10:57 - 2:11:03] ▶

he's worked in the government and you know it could be like if this is a topic I'm interested in

[2:11:03 - 2:11:07] ▶

like I am and UFOs UIPs he may be saying things that are not truth maybe for a good reason maybe

[2:11:07 - 2:11:14] ▶

for a bad reason to maybe you're a bad guy loop but like I don't know this now I see three doors with

[2:11:14 - 2:11:20] ▶

you I'm gonna maybe there's like five but we're gonna put it down to three number one is you

[2:11:20 - 2:11:25] ▶

know let's call it like the Stephen Green Street door he's completely full of shit he's making it

[2:11:25 - 2:11:29] ▶

all up there's no record of anything and I disagree with Stephen on some of the evidence that he's

[2:11:29 - 2:11:34] ▶

on that he's uncovered there but he's like kind of the the heel to it right he's the opposite

[2:11:34 - 2:11:40] ▶

the second door is you're either mostly telling the truth or like almost all the truth maybe

[2:11:40 - 2:11:47] ▶

there's some things that you know you reviewed the evidence and you got it wrong but like you're

[2:11:47 - 2:11:51] ▶

out here and you're actually giving all the information and it's in a purely kind of benevolent way

[2:11:51 - 2:11:55] ▶

like you've said where you feel like you have a moral duty to tell people things that they have a

[2:11:55 - 2:11:59] ▶

right to know the humanity as a right to know to say nothing of the United States of America's

[2:11:59 - 2:12:03] ▶

citizens the third door is it's a mix and the third door could be that it's like you know and this

[2:12:03 - 2:12:09] ▶

is a strong word to use but it could be like some sort of sia where let me just paint a picture here

[2:12:09 - 2:12:15] ▶

you guys on the back end you know a 22 year intelligence veteran if you're still in a 29 year

[2:12:15 - 2:12:22] ▶

intelligence veteran you have access to such crazy information that you have been able to simulate

[2:12:22 - 2:12:27] ▶

how society may handle this information if it was given to them to the point that you are able to

[2:12:27 - 2:12:32] ▶

see using all your great tools back there that like oh this could cause ontological shock or an

[2:12:32 - 2:12:37] ▶

existential crisis if we just dump this on people therefore someone like a lua azando someone

[2:12:37 - 2:12:43] ▶

like a chrysmelland someone like a david grush could be sent out there to reveal some truths

[2:12:43 - 2:12:48] ▶

in the midst of other stuff that might not be true or more more likely revealing truths to make

[2:12:49 - 2:12:55] ▶

it sound really important when when in reality the crazier shit is over here and you want to I

[2:12:55 - 2:13:00] ▶

don't know limited hangout get people away to focus on this so when you look at these three doors

[2:13:00 - 2:13:05] ▶

obviously the first one you're going to disagree with which is that you know a loose full of shit

[2:13:05 - 2:13:09] ▶

his career wasn't real but when you look at the other two doors could you see why people might

[2:13:09 - 2:13:13] ▶

make the argument on door three there I can see why people see all three doors that's that's

[2:13:13 - 2:13:19] ▶

and there's more doors than that I can I can tell you the door that I that I think I'm in okay

[2:13:19 - 2:13:25] ▶

you know what's there but it's it's it's a little different first of all let me put cards on

[2:13:25 - 2:13:31] ▶

disabled if you ask me to choose between national security and disclosure like real national security

[2:13:31 - 2:13:35] ▶

I will always choose national security I've never meeting bones about it I love my country and I

[2:13:35 - 2:13:39] ▶

will protect and defend this country period full stop um secondly um I want government accountability

[2:13:39 - 2:13:48] ▶

that's what I want whether it's with this topic or another topic there is a right way and a

[2:13:49 - 2:13:55] ▶

wrong way to do things I am very concerned and it's probably because my whole generation based

[2:13:55 - 2:14:01] ▶

upon the previous studies that some people can find this information disruptive okay what we call

[2:14:01 - 2:14:08] ▶

catastrophic disclosure I don't want that I want constructive disclosure I want to tell the

[2:14:08 - 2:14:15] ▶

American people let them have whatever they can have legally up to that point that they can't have

[2:14:15 - 2:14:20] ▶

anymore but that's not my decision to make all I can do is continue to try to push for it

[2:14:20 - 2:14:25] ▶

ultimately to the government's government's decision to do it and I won't override the government

[2:14:26 - 2:14:30] ▶

I won't do it I'm both I've made it very very clear I am not trying to hurt or disrupt

[2:14:30 - 2:14:38] ▶

our government I'm trying to help it it's backed itself into a corner for seven years plus

[2:14:39 - 2:14:45] ▶

potentially for decades and now we're at a point that people have the lowest level of faith and

[2:14:45 - 2:14:51] ▶

confidence in our government and our institutions why because we haven't been honest with the

[2:14:51 - 2:14:56] ▶

American people well the pentagon ever lives right unless you talk about the pentagon paper

[2:14:56 - 2:15:00] ▶

it's unless you talk about you know I run contra unless you talk about the Afghanistan withdrawal I mean

[2:15:00 - 2:15:04] ▶

we haven't been and our government has done some terrible things to people in the past look look

[2:15:05 - 2:15:09] ▶

at the syphilist experiments I know yeah people die man I mean that's die government killing people

[2:15:09 - 2:15:15] ▶

would you ever happen yeah right so you know my my point being is that the government hasn't always

[2:15:15 - 2:15:22] ▶

been necessarily looking at the best interests of the American people but this is a topic I think

[2:15:22 - 2:15:26] ▶

where I always believe that that that America can handle the truth I think America deserves the truth

[2:15:26 - 2:15:33] ▶

and I think there's a right and wrong way to have a conversation and I I want this to have a

[2:15:33 - 2:15:38] ▶

conversation like I said both from a national security perspective but then there's the other part

[2:15:38 - 2:15:42] ▶

of the conversation that affects everybody differently and yet equally right whether it's

[2:15:42 - 2:15:48] ▶

philosophically or psychologically or sociologically or even theologically my hope is that the

[2:15:48 - 2:15:54] ▶

American people can have the conversation for themselves and at that point make the decision what

[2:15:54 - 2:15:57] ▶

it means to you and then if at the end of the day you guys say yeah great yeah we get a big Mac

[2:15:57 - 2:16:03] ▶

fine but at least you had the opportunity to have the conversation right you couldn't

[2:16:03 - 2:16:09] ▶

then you make that decision for yourself and at that day I'll work a long mark I'm cool no sweat

[2:16:09 - 2:16:12] ▶

done but at least be able to have the conversation that's what I want to see happen that is the door

[2:16:13 - 2:16:21] ▶

I am in and yes I am still very loyal yes I will still defend my country and work for my government

[2:16:21 - 2:16:27] ▶

if asked to and when asked to but it's not either or it's like oh well since he does that he

[2:16:27 - 2:16:32] ▶

must be not for the people that's bullshit man that's that's that's that's that's a that is a

[2:16:32 - 2:16:37] ▶

that is a you we are creating a a fake narrative we're creating a binary solution that's this is not a

[2:16:37 - 2:16:46] ▶

binary thing it's not either or either you you're loyal to the government you're loyal to the American

[2:16:46 - 2:16:51] ▶

people it shouldn't be that way you should be able to be loyal to both that's what you should be

[2:16:51 - 2:16:56] ▶

and it can be that way that's what it used to be and that's what it should be again because remember

[2:16:56 - 2:17:00] ▶

government for the people by the people it's not this big monolithic thing there that's how there's

[2:17:00 - 2:17:04] ▶

government then there's a people could the fascication man we're lost we're done this has then you

[2:17:04 - 2:17:09] ▶

know what forget society will go move to Canada or something because that's not the way our government

[2:17:09 - 2:17:13] ▶

was supposed to be people died in wars we fought revolutions so we could have that power so the

[2:17:13 - 2:17:20] ▶

people made the decisions and you have a representative government that are interested in the in the

[2:17:20 - 2:17:26] ▶

interest in the will of the people this is my can we are going to lose the whole thing if we don't

[2:17:26 - 2:17:33] ▶

recognize that it's it'll be gone and then everything that everybody's doing is going to be

[2:17:33 - 2:17:38] ▶

a waste this is my concern and I know what revolution is because my family came from it and people

[2:17:38 - 2:17:45] ▶

don't realize that and all these little nitnites out there in the twitter sphere who armchair quarter

[2:17:45 - 2:17:49] ▶

backs have never served their country never served the day in their life doing anything other

[2:17:49 - 2:17:52] ▶

than being selfish and doing something for themselves have no freaking clue what's actually going on

[2:17:52 - 2:17:58] ▶

and they create drama they're not they're not they're not interested in drama they manufacture the

[2:17:58 - 2:18:02] ▶

drama they're actually out there wanting the drama then they watch how it goes down oh look look

[2:18:02 - 2:18:06] ▶

I mean it impacts someone made a comment you know that is that is not my focus that's why I don't

[2:18:06 - 2:18:12] ▶

deal with it I don't care about it my focus is on this type of conversation this is a national

[2:18:12 - 2:18:17] ▶

level conversation and by the way it's not just with uap you can see it right now look at the two

[2:18:17 - 2:18:22] ▶

people we have that are that are that are that are vying for president okay yeah now I don't

[2:18:22 - 2:18:28] ▶

get say bad or good about either one but let me ask you this is there anybody else probably

[2:18:28 - 2:18:33] ▶

maybe kind of sort literally could be qualified yeah right is that really really really

[2:18:33 - 2:18:39] ▶

America's best no you know or are we just well you know what I'll go ahead and compromise with

[2:18:39 - 2:18:48] ▶

you know that person because that one over there I hate just a little bit more right and so

[2:18:48 - 2:18:53] ▶

and we see this all the time and then we see the active pitting against each other there are people

[2:18:54 - 2:18:59] ▶

out there that are these agent provocateurs that thrive off of it you know wouldn't be great like online

[2:18:59 - 2:19:03] ▶

you're saying it everywhere in the media mainstream media wouldn't be great if a president can't

[2:19:03 - 2:19:08] ▶

candidate came out so you know what I'm not going to say anything bad about my my opponent in fact

[2:19:08 - 2:19:13] ▶

may I probably make a damn good president but let me tell you where we differ this is my perspective

[2:19:13 - 2:19:17] ▶

on how we should fix things and then the other person well this is how I think we should fix it

[2:19:17 - 2:19:21] ▶

imagine that that'd be nice instead of just throwing man he said she said he said she said

[2:19:22 - 2:19:26] ▶

which is all it is which is all it is that's all it is and it's to the point where we think it's

[2:19:26 - 2:19:31] ▶

normal not like a super bowl my team versus your team it's not it's not a super bowl man this is life

[2:19:31 - 2:19:36] ▶

this is our country it's not us versus you we're all in this shit together man and so forgive me for

[2:19:36 - 2:19:43] ▶

being emotional about this but but this is this is what drives me when people try to put in a false

[2:19:43 - 2:19:49] ▶

narrative or try to you know well Luth must think this or Luth must think that you know what

[2:19:49 - 2:19:54] ▶

think for yourself don't don't worry about what Luth thinks it doesn't matter what Luth

[2:19:54 - 2:19:58] ▶

thinks what matters is the facts and the details and then make your decision for yourself don't be lazy

[2:19:58 - 2:20:03] ▶

right do your research right understand what's actually happening here and and don't expect some

[2:20:03 - 2:20:10] ▶

person to give you a sound bite because now we watch the media not only we want to do the news

[2:20:10 - 2:20:13] ▶

what we want to do we want to know even what to feel about it right so what do we do we turn into

[2:20:13 - 2:20:18] ▶

our little echo chamber depending on what side of the aisle we're on politically and we watch our

[2:20:18 - 2:20:22] ▶

shows and we're not willing to watch all I don't like them they're biased hey don't look now dummy so

[2:20:22 - 2:20:27] ▶

are you you know how about expand your horizons and look at other sources of information and start

[2:20:27 - 2:20:33] ▶

thinking for yourself that is what this country used to be there used to be a point where you could

[2:20:33 - 2:20:38] ▶

get on the news you had no idea the political affiliation of any of the reporters because it was

[2:20:38 - 2:20:42] ▶

just the facts that was a nicer world I got Walter Cronkite up in the corner up there because

[2:20:42 - 2:20:47] ▶

absolutely better world to live in well that was an honest world to live in even when we were

[2:20:47 - 2:20:52] ▶

doing dishonest things right and this is my concern this is my concern with with where we are now

[2:20:52 - 2:20:59] ▶

as a country hey guys if you haven't already please be sure to share around this episode on

[2:20:59 - 2:21:04] ▶

social medium with your friends instagram facebook twitter reddit it's all a huge help and I

[2:21:04 - 2:21:09] ▶

appreciate all of you who've been doing that each week and this is why it frustrates me so bad

[2:21:09 - 2:21:14] ▶

because ultimately at the end of the day my focus is not the UFO community it never has been it's

[2:21:14 - 2:21:19] ▶

on the other 99.9% of the population that's never even considered this topic seriously that's my

[2:21:19 - 2:21:25] ▶

focus and through this we maybe we can have a bigger conversation about what accountability

[2:21:25 - 2:21:30] ▶

transparency and anti-corruption that's really what I'm I'm hoping to pursue here this is why

[2:21:30 - 2:21:37] ▶

this topic this is just one example it's a big one really big one but this is just one example

[2:21:37 - 2:21:42] ▶

of things we got to fix in this country but if if if you can recognize and I agree with you that

[2:21:42 - 2:21:48] ▶

we're living in a country now where people it's devolved to such a point of he said she said and

[2:21:48 - 2:21:54] ▶

shit that like these are the presidential candidates we have to choose from and it's a giant

[2:21:54 - 2:21:58] ▶

reality show just at a high level one example right there say nothing of the rest the internet that

[2:21:58 - 2:22:02] ▶

we can all see I can see how psychologically people that you've spent your career around sitting in

[2:22:02 - 2:22:11] ▶

serious rooms like skiffs that have seen all the worst shit that this world has to offer and no

[2:22:11 - 2:22:17] ▶

things through the literal job description of your jobs that you know we'll never know or you know

[2:22:17 - 2:22:24] ▶

maybe we'll find out a hundred years from now when it gets declassified I can see how psychologically

[2:22:24 - 2:22:29] ▶

there's this boundary that forms where suddenly you guys in your group think in this scenario or like

[2:22:29 - 2:22:35] ▶

look we actually know what's going on here and we're going to save the people from themselves

[2:22:35 - 2:22:40] ▶

because they have no fucking ideal 100% there are people and this is this is one of the things I

[2:22:40 - 2:22:45] ▶

explored because there are people this is why people I'm so glad you brought this up you could not be

[2:22:45 - 2:22:51] ▶

more accurate there are people now who want disclosure and they want their pound of flesh all these

[2:22:52 - 2:22:58] ▶

people that are part of legacy efforts put them in front of a court and put them all in jail for

[2:22:58 - 2:23:01] ▶

lying to the American people I don't think that's the way to do it I think what we do is we

[2:23:01 - 2:23:07] ▶

incentivize and we give them an award give them a promotion say hey listen great thank you for

[2:23:07 - 2:23:11] ▶

your interest in national security good job that's the time to have a conversation I think that most

[2:23:11 - 2:23:16] ▶

of these people that kept us so secret for so long actually believes in their heart they were

[2:23:16 - 2:23:20] ▶

doing it for the right reason I think there were people out there who actually felt look we already

[2:23:20 - 2:23:25] ▶

had studies done we know that the American population can't take this right now that they they they

[2:23:25 - 2:23:30] ▶

cannot process this information they're too worried about Russians and nukes and all this other stuff

[2:23:30 - 2:23:34] ▶

we're not going to put that as a priority right now and by the way no use having this conversation

[2:23:35 - 2:23:39] ▶

with the American people because we still have no idea where they're from or what they want or

[2:23:39 - 2:23:42] ▶

how it works or anything like that right we're just now scratching the server so it's just like

[2:23:42 - 2:23:47] ▶

when we were flying the U-2 over Russia and Russia never ever ever made an issue you know we fluid

[2:23:47 - 2:23:51] ▶

in contravention of an actual treaty with them that we would not fly man reconnaissance missions

[2:23:51 - 2:23:56] ▶

over mainland Russia and what do we do we built the U-2 with the CIA and Lockheed Martin Skunkworks

[2:23:56 - 2:24:00] ▶

and we start flying them and the Russians ever reacted so we thought hey the plane flies too high

[2:24:00 - 2:24:04] ▶

and too fast they can't detect it the Russians were were were tracking every single flight from day one

[2:24:04 - 2:24:10] ▶

the only reason why they didn't make an issue of it is why because they didn't have a capability to

[2:24:10 - 2:24:13] ▶

neutralize it and it wasn't until they were able to actually successfully shoot one down with an

[2:24:13 - 2:24:17] ▶

SA-2 surface tear missile did they tell the world the reality hey look what America is doing right

[2:24:17 - 2:24:23] ▶

so why admit a problem for which there is no solution I can understand from a national security

[2:24:23 - 2:24:28] ▶

perspective people in our own government having that same mindset why are we going to acknowledge

[2:24:28 - 2:24:33] ▶

a problem which we don't even understand yet I get that I don't agree with it but I can respect

[2:24:33 - 2:24:39] ▶

that understanding I can I can respect that mindset and in their hearts they feel like they

[2:24:39 - 2:24:44] ▶

really are doing their patriotic duty so from that perspective I get it and back to what you just

[2:24:44 - 2:24:50] ▶

said to me but bunch of guys sitting around and skiffing saying hey you know what these morons can't

[2:24:50 - 2:24:54] ▶

handle it I'm not saying that's their attitude I'm saying it comes it like it's like a passive

[2:24:54 - 2:24:59] ▶

feeling that comes in like oh my god if only these people knew you know what I mean but that's

[2:24:59 - 2:25:03] ▶

every day in the intelligence world brother I mean that's listen there's I don't sleep all night

[2:25:03 - 2:25:07] ▶

because crap I've learned and it has nothing to do with the UAP community I mean I'm telling you

[2:25:07 - 2:25:11] ▶

there's that's the cost of information people say I want to know but you know you go to the doctor

[2:25:11 - 2:25:16] ▶

and doctors hey listen um before we talk you want me to be truthful with you everything right on

[2:25:16 - 2:25:22] ▶

your your your yeah yeah I want my tell me about my medical jam um you sure you want to be truthful

[2:25:22 - 2:25:27] ▶

with you yeah why don't you be truthful with me you have stage 4 cancer oh shit I wish you

[2:25:27 - 2:25:31] ▶

would have been truthful with me you know I may have been better off not knowing that or going to

[2:25:31 - 2:25:37] ▶

a friend and saying hey um listen um this fiance you have um yeah yeah great guy great gal do

[2:25:37 - 2:25:46] ▶

do you want to I've got some information you want me to share with you yeah yeah let me know you

[2:25:46 - 2:25:50] ▶

sure yeah of course I want to know they've been cheating on you the entire time oh I didn't want to

[2:25:50 - 2:25:56] ▶

right so in intelligence is like that you learn things all the time that that you know it probably

[2:25:56 - 2:26:06] ▶

would be better off not knowing but it's your job and so that's not just with the the UFO stuff

[2:26:06 - 2:26:12] ▶

that's with a lot of things national security there's a lot of things that we would keep people up

[2:26:12 - 2:26:16] ▶

at night fortunately we have really good people the intelligence community that are professionals

[2:26:16 - 2:26:21] ▶

and they can do their job and their job is to stop the worst thing from happening and most of

[2:26:21 - 2:26:26] ▶

the time they're very successful with that so you know if there was any type of consolation prize

[2:26:26 - 2:26:31] ▶

in this is that there are very very good people very patriotic people who are who who lose sleep

[2:26:31 - 2:26:39] ▶

every night so we don't have to yeah um and that's why it's important that we don't villainize

[2:26:39 - 2:26:44] ▶

everybody in the government you know the mummy so I worked until oh you're one of the

[2:26:44 - 2:26:46] ▶

all right look it was a job okay but we didn't do it to to see if anybody else we were deceiving

[2:26:47 - 2:26:52] ▶

the enemy not you not the American people weren't the enemy you know um denialing deception and

[2:26:52 - 2:26:57] ▶

information operations and all those things um you know you do it to fight and win wars you don't do

[2:26:57 - 2:27:02] ▶

it because you're bored you don't do it because you know you so let's let's go figure something out

[2:27:02 - 2:27:07] ▶

to go and be disruptive that's not the way it works um and I think that's that's part of the problem

[2:27:07 - 2:27:12] ▶

we have in this conversation because not our conversation but in the bigger conversation because

[2:27:12 - 2:27:16] ▶

there's such a lack of trust in the government now this is why it's important now more than ever

[2:27:16 - 2:27:21] ▶

we need to show good faith in the government we have to do it and because right now

[2:27:21 - 2:27:25] ▶

I thought you said okay yeah yeah yeah so you see in the context I'm trying to say here right now

[2:27:25 - 2:27:30] ▶

yeah this is again why this accountability transparency is so important not the end of the day

[2:27:30 - 2:27:34] ▶

is there a better way to do it could be could be could I be wrong in this approach yeah sure absolutely

[2:27:35 - 2:27:40] ▶

yeah I think people are always going to be skeptical because of the fact that we've seen such as

[2:27:40 - 2:27:44] ▶

you laid out yourself with some examples we've seen such a breakdown in the trust of institutions

[2:27:44 - 2:27:50] ▶

through some things that they have done which again and this is this is unfortunate but my friend

[2:27:50 - 2:27:56] ▶

Jared Dillion who I had on the podcast for episode 182 or 183 he is a former Lehman Brothers guy

[2:27:56 - 2:28:05] ▶

and he had this line in a memoir he wrote about Lehman Brothers is that he put it like this he said

[2:28:06 - 2:28:12] ▶

there were approximately 20,000 people who worked at Lehman Brothers and I can tell you 19,995 of them

[2:28:12 - 2:28:18] ▶

were really good at their jobs and tried very hard that's right now I always amended to probably

[2:28:18 - 2:28:22] ▶

19,970 but you get the point yeah it takes a very small turn in the punch bowl to ruin that punch bowl

[2:28:22 - 2:28:29] ▶

right and that's why in government especially it's so important this is my anti-corruption issue here

[2:28:29 - 2:28:33] ▶

because it just takes a few people in government to do bad things and the entire government

[2:28:33 - 2:28:38] ▶

looks like crap and this is this is another concern because it's easy to blame the government

[2:28:38 - 2:28:42] ▶

oh this government is big you know huge monolithic thing no government just meet a people

[2:28:42 - 2:28:48] ▶

and there are some good people really good people government and there's a couple that you know

[2:28:48 - 2:28:52] ▶

not so good yeah not so good right and unfortunately it kind of paints with a broad stroke the

[2:28:52 - 2:28:57] ▶

entire government and so it's important we don't villainize a government don't you know

[2:28:57 - 2:29:00] ▶

we it's like it's like a police officer yeah there's a couple dirty cops out there but most of

[2:29:01 - 2:29:05] ▶

them are putting their life on the line to save your ass you know and you know they're good people

[2:29:05 - 2:29:09] ▶

they go home they pay their bills and they're putting their life on the line every day for you

[2:29:09 - 2:29:13] ▶

same with our military same with our intelligence professionals but it just takes one or two and now

[2:29:13 - 2:29:18] ▶

you've got a corrupt police department that's right now look if we're going to be fair and we're going to

[2:29:18 - 2:29:22] ▶

be assessing the morality and the actions of the government we also have to look at the other

[2:29:22 - 2:29:28] ▶

side of this which is something you outline in your book pretty well which is the the contract side

[2:29:28 - 2:29:33] ▶

the the private side so you learned through this program that companies i'm just going to name a

[2:29:33 - 2:29:39] ▶

couple here like Lockheed and Northrop had been in also excuse my own term like in lockstep with

[2:29:39 - 2:29:47] ▶

previous UFO related things with the government to the point that you will edge you you had you saw

[2:29:47 - 2:29:55] ▶

evidence through the files you had access to to show that companies like a lock he like in north

[2:29:55 - 2:30:00] ▶

rop had been in charge of UFO crash retrievals and given so much authority by the government in this

[2:30:00 - 2:30:06] ▶

case is like a hand in hand military industrial complex I guess in a way such that the evidence

[2:30:06 - 2:30:12] ▶

recovered from these were in places that you had no idea about in the government and couldn't ever

[2:30:12 - 2:30:17] ▶

access yourself therefore it's pretty much all on the private side for them to potentially reverse

[2:30:17 - 2:30:22] ▶

engineer things that you the government wouldn't even know about correct that was kind of an issue

[2:30:22 - 2:30:26] ▶

now yeah it was let's let's look at a real real case scenario here let's look at let's look at the

[2:30:26 - 2:30:34] ▶

the Apollo missions okay and the early days of the u.s. government's space race and race to the moon

[2:30:34 - 2:30:41] ▶

it was about 10 years it's when Kennedy said we're going to put a person on the moon and not because

[2:30:43 - 2:30:47] ▶

it's easy because it's hard etc etc and that was in 1969 we successfully landed somebody on the

[2:30:47 - 2:30:52] ▶

moon that was a 10-year endeavor now we had to invent everything from scratch to do that no

[2:30:52 - 2:30:59] ▶

it had been this really space before and I've never been certainly to another celestial body and

[2:30:59 - 2:31:04] ▶

no one knew what it was even like and how to do it and how to get there and what was involved with

[2:31:04 - 2:31:08] ▶

technologies and so we had about nine to 10 years to figure it out maybe a little less

[2:31:08 - 2:31:13] ▶

as a result of that over and think about this 6200 industries and products have were invented

[2:31:13 - 2:31:26] ▶

and created to do that so for example things like the LED light bulb velcro right they can't scan

[2:31:26 - 2:31:33] ▶

these are technologies in some cases that have changed humanity forever have benefited our

[2:31:33 - 2:31:38] ▶

well-being all because of a space race and this competition for for a little less than a decade

[2:31:38 - 2:31:44] ▶

with a foreign adversary right these technologies have long outlived the initial purpose for which

[2:31:44 - 2:31:51] ▶

they were created right imagine a company that has access to material or technology and without

[2:31:51 - 2:32:02] ▶

fair competition able to do things and make money based upon that now I'm not against capitalism at

[2:32:02 - 2:32:12] ▶

all capitalism works it's fantastic as long as we all play by the same rules right capitalism doesn't

[2:32:12 - 2:32:17] ▶

work when one company gets a unfair advantage over another and they're in lies part of the problem

[2:32:17 - 2:32:22] ▶

because if you have material that was in the position of the government and says okay you can

[2:32:22 - 2:32:27] ▶

use this to analyze it for us that doesn't mean you can just turn around start making profit off of

[2:32:27 - 2:32:31] ▶

it and creating stuff that we don't agree for you to make that property that probably belongs to

[2:32:31 - 2:32:36] ▶

the American people that belongs to the government not you let's let's let's make make that clear up

[2:32:36 - 2:32:40] ▶

front you don't own that property unless we sell it to you right and so there in lies part of the

[2:32:40 - 2:32:47] ▶

problem also you have legal consequences so let's for example say here we go company that's

[2:32:47 - 2:32:53] ▶

the proof will do that there we go we got this and we got this company a company B on the government

[2:32:53 - 2:32:59] ▶

right and I find something interesting in the desert and I say hey uh company I want you to go

[2:32:59 - 2:33:04] ▶

ahead and analyze that for me okay company B don't worry about that you just go ahead do you think

[2:33:04 - 2:33:09] ▶

10 years later what happens company A becomes a multi-billion dollar aerospace company

[2:33:09 - 2:33:14] ▶

company B what happens well they went bankrupt 200 jobs were lost and the investors who had

[2:33:14 - 2:33:20] ▶

that money in there gone right what just happened well the US government gave an unfair advantage

[2:33:20 - 2:33:26] ▶

to company A instead of company B right they make the money they make the profit now there are

[2:33:26 - 2:33:32] ▶

actual rules and laws and regulations like SEC violations that if if I do that and this company

[2:33:32 - 2:33:38] ▶

goes bankrupt now there's a real legal liability on my part because I broke the law I did something

[2:33:38 - 2:33:42] ▶

that I wasn't allowed to do because as a government as a government yeah because I gave an unfair

[2:33:42 - 2:33:48] ▶

advantage to one company over another right there's rules and mechanisms to do stuff I want to

[2:33:48 - 2:33:52] ▶

have company A material there's rules and procedures to do that I can't just go and give it to them

[2:33:52 - 2:33:57] ▶

there are unless they are a prime contractor and I have these avenues that are taken care of and

[2:33:58 - 2:34:01] ▶

blah blah blah blah blah there are laws against being able to give these unfair advantages because

[2:34:01 - 2:34:08] ▶

why there is money behind it they're in a capitalist world people invested in company B because they

[2:34:08 - 2:34:13] ▶

thought they were going to be a company that has the same type of potential as company A but we

[2:34:13 - 2:34:18] ▶

didn't know that there was an unfair relationship between company couple people in the government

[2:34:18 - 2:34:21] ▶

and company A so here we're going to slide that to you right it's like all these sweetheart deals

[2:34:21 - 2:34:25] ▶

where you're paying $22,000 for a toilet seat for an airplane yeah right I mean what well how does

[2:34:25 - 2:34:30] ▶

that happen what happens happens because someone in the government has a sweetheart deal with somebody

[2:34:30 - 2:34:35] ▶

here and they get away with it right so we gave are you saying and maybe I'm taking this a little too

[2:34:35 - 2:34:41] ▶

far but are you saying we gave sweetheart deals to certain companies as it pertains to say UFO

[2:34:41 - 2:34:46] ▶

crash retrievals and we had now created a beast that we cannot tame it appears that may very well

[2:34:46 - 2:34:50] ▶

be the case that may be one of the issues that we're dealing with and if that's the case okay well

[2:34:50 - 2:34:56] ▶

there's real legal consequences how do we fix this without you did you give a manminesty I think you

[2:34:56 - 2:35:01] ▶

do people can say oh you can't do that well listen do you want the truth or not what's the cost of it

[2:35:01 - 2:35:05] ▶

you know there's there's examples where we do this truth and reconciliation we didn't

[2:35:05 - 2:35:10] ▶

rewind and we've done it with other countries where we we say look a lot of bad things are done

[2:35:10 - 2:35:14] ▶

on both sides we're willing to forgive all of it if we can if we can reconcile and if we can

[2:35:14 - 2:35:20] ▶

we can move forward together towards the truth and I think that's the way we do it this is why

[2:35:20 - 2:35:24] ▶

I said we don't villainize those who are part of these efforts I know it's easy people want to do

[2:35:24 - 2:35:29] ▶

that and they want their pound of flesh and I see no yeah but but the company on that and I want to

[2:35:29 - 2:35:34] ▶

stick with your example okay company A if they became a multi-billion dollar or whatever the government

[2:35:34 - 2:35:41] ▶

making that mistake is not their fault they just reap the benefit of it so what incentive do they

[2:35:41 - 2:35:45] ▶

have to come to the table like what can the government legally say to them you you allow them to do

[2:35:45 - 2:35:49] ▶

well this is part of the eminent domain conversation this is yeah which is by the way I'm not going

[2:35:49 - 2:35:55] ▶

to get into this very controversial but look the government has the right through eminent domain

[2:35:55 - 2:35:59] ▶

to whatever the hell want if you got some and it's better and it's in the interest of national

[2:35:59 - 2:36:04] ▶

security or national interests whereby your house will put a highway right through it we'll do

[2:36:04 - 2:36:08] ▶

whatever we need to do make no mistake we will absolutely do it right same holds true with this

[2:36:08 - 2:36:14] ▶

the problem is the government's been saying no for so long it doesn't exist they don't want it back

[2:36:14 - 2:36:18] ▶

they don't want it you keep you you figure out I don't want nothing to do with that you know

[2:36:18 - 2:36:23] ▶

so it's it's a double-edged sword this is you know this is a very it's actually a great conversation

[2:36:24 - 2:36:29] ▶

because it kind of highlights some of the complexities we're dealing with you know people

[2:36:29 - 2:36:32] ▶

just say well I just want to truth well but it's not that simple it's not just okay here's a truth

[2:36:32 - 2:36:38] ▶

because the consequences of that how you get the truth can make a break something and there are

[2:36:38 - 2:36:44] ▶

people there that don't want that to happen well a huge problem with the truth that people have

[2:36:44 - 2:36:49] ▶

with anything involving the phenomenon is that as Michou Kakou says we have no physical evidence

[2:36:49 - 2:36:55] ▶

you know steal a pen for god's sake steal something do you believe in god well I believe in the

[2:36:55 - 2:37:02] ▶

god of Einstein he believed in god but not the god that intervenes in human affairs it was the

[2:37:02 - 2:37:09] ▶

god of order the god of simplicity and elegance Einstein was asked the question did the universe have

[2:37:09 - 2:37:15] ▶

a choice is it unique so universe as you can create universes in an afternoon but most of them are

[2:37:15 - 2:37:22] ▶

unstable most of them fall apart most of them don't work our universe is stable it works everything

[2:37:22 - 2:37:28] ▶

fits together and then the question is what's set off the bang that's what we do for a living we

[2:37:28 - 2:37:34] ▶

have the big bang theory up to the point where the universe is going to explode why did it explode

[2:37:34 - 2:37:40] ▶

we think it was a quantum event and we are here because we are in the universe we decided to

[2:37:40 - 2:37:45] ▶

explode so Einstein said was it all an accident and he thought no it could not have been an accident

[2:37:45 - 2:37:51] ▶

you know and like I hear him because you know like I had Jesse I just recorded with Jesse

[2:37:53 - 2:37:58] ▶

Michael's that's gonna be coming out one or two episodes after you but like he talked about like

[2:37:58 - 2:38:03] ▶

the bovine that he saw and showed it with Gary Nolan the Jack fillet had brought to him so like

[2:38:03 - 2:38:08] ▶

maybe there's something physical there but like it's not like we have when David Grush came out who's

[2:38:08 - 2:38:13] ▶

able to like remove the remove the curtains and say here's the UFO we were covered in 1933 and

[2:38:13 - 2:38:19] ▶

it's the same thing with you you're you're out here saying I've seen the the evidence written up

[2:38:19 - 2:38:25] ▶

in papers and I think you're also saying like maybe you've seen some physical evidence too but like

[2:38:25 - 2:38:30] ▶

can you understand why skeptics out there are saying well this is religious as well yeah if we

[2:38:30 - 2:38:35] ▶

don't have physical evidence yeah my responsible first we do have physical evidence it's just

[2:38:35 - 2:38:39] ▶

you don't see it because with the government and it's with the private companies or the private

[2:38:39 - 2:38:44] ▶

companies right who work for the government by the way right so allegedly yeah or should anyway

[2:38:44 - 2:38:48] ▶

right uh and uh and you're right you should don't I'm not asking you to believe me you do governments

[2:38:49 - 2:38:55] ▶

already told you that you had a former director of national intelligence Radcliffe former director

[2:38:55 - 2:38:59] ▶

of the CIA Brennan you had a former president of the United States you had a president just now we

[2:38:59 - 2:39:04] ▶

can have a go former president that said hey if I get elected I'm gonna release the UFO files

[2:39:04 - 2:39:09] ▶

good to guy asked him would you do it he said yeah I'll do it and by the way I tried to do it before

[2:39:09 - 2:39:12] ▶

but I got a lot of flak for doing it I mean do it didn't well nobody did you hear that what he says

[2:39:12 - 2:39:18] ▶

he says I tried to do it before but I got a lot of resistance wait a minute

[2:39:18 - 2:39:22] ▶

you know what that means that's like no that's saying yes I've been briefed to it I want to do it

[2:39:24 - 2:39:28] ▶

but someone is telling me now so you know don't don't believe Louis Vuitton don't listen to Louis Vuitton

[2:39:28 - 2:39:35] ▶

don't give shit dude the way I go do your research man don't be lazy get out there and and be proactive

[2:39:35 - 2:39:42] ▶

read what's out there read what people are saying people in authority who are telling you this

[2:39:42 - 2:39:46] ▶

not for the people who else on do you know it's there yeah it's there you don't you don't you don't

[2:39:46 - 2:39:52] ▶

need it from me all you need for me is maybe a little bit of my background and you know xyz

[2:39:52 - 2:39:58] ▶

but there's already data there there's already data there you've already had an acknowledgement

[2:39:58 - 2:40:03] ▶

by the US government in many ways of the reality of this topic you've already had these reports

[2:40:04 - 2:40:09] ▶

to contrary said look every time we go and try to figure these things out we have more

[2:40:09 - 2:40:13] ▶

not less right government said oh we have complete air domain awareness over our country

[2:40:13 - 2:40:18] ▶

what happens we start recalibrating our radar to look for uap boom surveillance satellite from China

[2:40:18 - 2:40:24] ▶

I'm just wafting over new uncontinental United States right so

[2:40:24 - 2:40:28] ▶

if you if you look at the data with the data is suggesting that is all I'm asking people to do

[2:40:30 - 2:40:37] ▶

I'm not in this way don't give my opinion because what do you think who doesn't matter what

[2:40:37 - 2:40:40] ▶

loop things what matters what you think stop asking me that don't make me think for you because

[2:40:40 - 2:40:45] ▶

that is a your ability to look at information objectively is sacred no one should be thinking for

[2:40:45 - 2:40:51] ▶

you you should be thinking for you and so my job is easy here's the facts and the data

[2:40:51 - 2:40:57] ▶

use the side what you want to do with it that is that is really what this boils down to

[2:40:57 - 2:41:02] ▶

have you stood in front of a recovered ufo I am

[2:41:03 - 2:41:07] ▶

boy I can talk about what's in the book because I got cleared for it so let me say this

[2:41:08 - 2:41:12] ▶

I have had in my possession material that was allegedly recovered from a ufo okay it was very

[2:41:13 - 2:41:20] ▶

yeah I cannot say okay it was but I don't I have been told I was warned very very clearly this I'll

[2:41:20 - 2:41:27] ▶

share with you I was told several years ago that I could never talk about crash retrievals or

[2:41:27 - 2:41:32] ▶

ever and I signed a paperwork for it right so that in itself is should be evidence for you

[2:41:33 - 2:41:37] ▶

but more importantly than that it's only been recently I'm allowed to talk about

[2:41:37 - 2:41:41] ▶

the one piece of material because it's in my book and it got cleared for it okay let's talk about it

[2:41:42 - 2:41:46] ▶

that's I have to be I have to honor that so just so you understand I'm not trying to be

[2:41:46 - 2:41:52] ▶

evasive I just I don't want to go to jail I hear you so there is material that I've had

[2:41:52 - 2:41:59] ▶

access to that was clearly engineered it was we had one of the very best I can't say which one

[2:42:00 - 2:42:09] ▶

one of the very best aerospace companies and government contractors okay so you can try to figure

[2:42:09 - 2:42:14] ▶

out who that was I'll keep try to replicate I'm not saying I'm not saying one way or the other

[2:42:14 - 2:42:21] ▶

try to replicate that material and at a cost of a million dollars and it broke the machine

[2:42:22 - 2:42:27] ▶

they're able to create this material at a macro level a sandwich between one piece and another

[2:42:27 - 2:42:31] ▶

piece this material up to three years ago I don't know about now but three years ago we could not

[2:42:31 - 2:42:39] ▶

replicate we could not we did not have the technology to manufacture it when you look at this

[2:42:39 - 2:42:44] ▶

material and you found that when we know for sure we we we found it where it was found

[2:42:44 - 2:42:50] ▶

temporally there's a problem because this material has obviously been engineered with a technology

[2:42:50 - 2:42:56] ▶

that at least we're pretty sure we don't have maybe the Russians maybe the Chinese sure back in the

[2:42:56 - 2:43:00] ▶

1990s 1940s definitely not that is equivalent to us as if you have a piece of material that says hey

[2:43:00 - 2:43:09] ▶

that's from 1940 whatever and you look at it you say oh wow that's pretty interesting because

[2:43:09 - 2:43:14] ▶

we didn't have that technology that's like going into as I've said before going into into king

[2:43:14 - 2:43:19] ▶

touch tomb for the very first time as we've discovered it and as you chisel away the plaster wall

[2:43:19 - 2:43:25] ▶

and you peek inside you see a fully assembled 747 jet it doesn't make sense they did not have

[2:43:25 - 2:43:31] ▶

the technology to do that back then I don't care what you think but there it is right so how to get

[2:43:31 - 2:43:37] ▶

in there it's the same thing it's the same same issue we have here if we don't even have the technology

[2:43:37 - 2:43:44] ▶

now someone did it came I mean it's it's him from somewhere and when you look at the atomic

[2:43:44 - 2:43:52] ▶

so we go there's there's three levels of of analysis and maybe there might be helpful if I

[2:43:53 - 2:43:58] ▶

explain it for okay so I find this okay that makes noise by the way if you want to do it

[2:43:58 - 2:44:03] ▶

and don't on the bottom on the bottom see the one bottom now hit it okay

[2:44:05 - 2:44:09] ▶

okay little known trick so imagine being a da Vinci and walking in a desert in the 1600s and

[2:44:12 - 2:44:20] ▶

finding this right yeah be trippy yeah so it made a plastic and it talks it's magic right

[2:44:20 - 2:44:27] ▶

so my point being it's kind of in the same way you know you eventually would never expect something

[2:44:29 - 2:44:33] ▶

like this and wouldn't have no idea it's use right and understand what a battery is and

[2:44:33 - 2:44:38] ▶

and how this speaker works and apply it's magic there's three types of analysis you would do first

[2:44:38 - 2:44:44] ▶

of all if I find this in the desert and I was let's say it was Da Vinci and I had the technology

[2:44:44 - 2:44:49] ▶

first I'm going to do is I'm probably going to weigh it and I'm going to do a physical analysis

[2:44:49 - 2:44:52] ▶

I'm going to say it's hard it's solid it's made as some sort of plastic material that weighs

[2:44:52 - 2:44:56] ▶

half a kilogram roughly this dimension it's not electric it doesn't conduct electricity but something

[2:44:57 - 2:45:04] ▶

inside does blah blah blah if that's interesting enough that'll warrant a chemical molecular analysis

[2:45:04 - 2:45:09] ▶

now I want to see it I know it's some hard solid surface but I want to see the relationship

[2:45:09 - 2:45:13] ▶

between the molecules themselves how are they arranged what what is a relationship with the other

[2:45:13 - 2:45:18] ▶

molecules in there well I analyze this it's got some copper in it it's got some lithium it's got

[2:45:18 - 2:45:24] ▶

some plastic polymer it's got some aluminum in it right and if that's interesting enough then

[2:45:24 - 2:45:32] ▶

I say okay I'm going to spend the extra money I'm going to do a atomic analysis at the nano level

[2:45:32 - 2:45:38] ▶

I want to see how the not the molecules but how the atoms are actually arranged because within

[2:45:38 - 2:45:43] ▶

the natural environment there's a variation of isotopes that we find here on this planet and it turns

[2:45:43 - 2:45:47] ▶

out that they're natural there are some that are not natural and that's the reason why speaking of

[2:45:47 - 2:45:54] ▶

king touched tomb this is why it's kind of important because for decades there was a little dagger

[2:45:54 - 2:45:59] ▶

that we found in king touched tomb that we just thought wasn't a little dagger it wasn't until we

[2:45:59 - 2:46:04] ▶

did the analysis on it that we realized it wasn't from earth the metal came from a meteorite and we

[2:46:04 - 2:46:10] ▶

know that and that's when all of a sudden became important like oh my gosh that's why they buried

[2:46:10 - 2:46:13] ▶

them with the dagger because this is made from meteorite it's not from earth right it's magical

[2:46:13 - 2:46:17] ▶

or whatever there's significance behind it you know that by doing looking at isotopic ratios

[2:46:17 - 2:46:23] ▶

at the atomic level and how they are arranged and when you find that atoms are arranged with

[2:46:23 - 2:46:30] ▶

such a level of precision that takes a lot of technology it's really really expensive right and the

[2:46:30 - 2:46:38] ▶

uses of for that are are fairly finite at least from our own technological perspective there's only

[2:46:38 - 2:46:43] ▶

so many reasons you would want to invest and making something with that level of accuracy remember at

[2:46:43 - 2:46:49] ▶

a cost of a million bucks we were able to put two pieces together this is much much more complicated

[2:46:49 - 2:46:53] ▶

than that so that is why material analysis is so important that's why when you come across a piece

[2:46:53 - 2:46:59] ▶

of material that's been engineered and then you find out when it was recovered right that kind of

[2:46:59 - 2:47:05] ▶

changes you know you could say that yeah maybe Russia China has that ability now or has in the

[2:47:05 - 2:47:10] ▶

last five or ten years not decades ago and so that is part of the compelling evidence and now I'm

[2:47:10 - 2:47:16] ▶

not a material scientist but we had people that looked at it right there's people that that's even

[2:47:16 - 2:47:21] ▶

to this day and age in the government are analyzing stuff I can't say who can't say where but they're

[2:47:21 - 2:47:26] ▶

interested in analyzing this type of material and it's happening so I know I'm not scratching your it

[2:47:26 - 2:47:35] ▶

specifically but I'm trying to have a conversation while getting around any issues I might get me in

[2:47:35 - 2:47:39] ▶

trouble because I can't be specific but I'm giving you an example of how you do analysis why it's

[2:47:39 - 2:47:44] ▶

important and what makes a piece of material so compelling that's what makes that material compelling

[2:47:44 - 2:47:49] ▶

yeah it always fucks with my head thinking about this because you're assuming you have some whether

[2:47:49 - 2:47:54] ▶

it be a crazy advanced civilization or future humans whatever it is it's like these beings would

[2:47:54 - 2:48:00] ▶

have so much more understanding of whatever the physical world is than we do to the point that I've

[2:48:00 - 2:48:07] ▶

always said like wouldn't they be able to simulate everything ahead of time like wouldn't they be

[2:48:07 - 2:48:12] ▶

able to simulate a crash happening or something like that so that it wouldn't happen I mean you

[2:48:12 - 2:48:16] ▶

talk in your book about your conversations with how I put off for example on Roswell where he's

[2:48:16 - 2:48:22] ▶

he's got some fascinating thoughts there but he's like hey it was probably some sort of

[2:48:22 - 2:48:27] ▶

EMP interference from our universe that fucks with the craft falling to earth and boom that

[2:48:27 - 2:48:34] ▶

well there were two of them and one of them we were then able to recover and then the government

[2:48:34 - 2:48:38] ▶

tried to cover it up and say it was a balloon so you know when you see things like that it's like

[2:48:38 - 2:48:42] ▶

our way less advanced squirrel species is able to have some capabilities that fuck up these

[2:48:43 - 2:48:51] ▶

civilizations so much that we're able to even get evidence like that allegedly yeah so your argument

[2:48:51 - 2:48:56] ▶

is that you know we're the the monkeys on the ground it couldn't be things if they're those so

[2:48:56 - 2:48:59] ▶

advanced how they allowed to be so vulnerable and susceptible right yeah okay sir we are in a

[2:48:59 - 2:49:05] ▶

beautiful place here in Hoboken and again I'll I'll be respectful of privacy but I noticed

[2:49:05 - 2:49:10] ▶

this morning when I was getting up and walking outside the hotel yet this beautiful view of the

[2:49:10 - 2:49:16] ▶

of the Hudson I mean just gorgeous just beautiful beautiful and you know it was only a few years ago

[2:49:16 - 2:49:22] ▶

that you had a you had a what some call a miracle here you had a commercial jet yeah

[2:49:22 - 2:49:30] ▶

solid solid and and and crashed what you want to remind your audience what happened so this was

[2:49:30 - 2:49:37] ▶

it was a Tom Hanks movie later but they took off from LaGuardia went up into the sky as they were

[2:49:37 - 2:49:42] ▶

coming up solid solenberger the captain realized there were birds the birds came into the engine

[2:49:42 - 2:49:48] ▶

pop up up up up suddenly the plane failed and Sully used unbelievable skills that he had acquired over

[2:49:48 - 2:49:54] ▶

40 some years or something of flying was able to pull it back around right out here correctly as

[2:49:54 - 2:49:59] ▶

you point out on the Hudson in between Manhattan and Hoboken and basically land the plane perfectly

[2:49:59 - 2:50:06] ▶

such that it didn't crash on impact and split apart and saved everyone on the plane yeah yeah

[2:50:06 - 2:50:10] ▶

if you're a bird wouldn't you be asking the same question these humans are so advanced how can

[2:50:11 - 2:50:18] ▶

a dumb bird bring down a jet full of people and almost kill every single human being a bird

[2:50:18 - 2:50:27] ▶

that's a good parallel you just give

[2:50:28 - 2:50:30] ▶

don't forget to tip your bartenders in your waist

[2:50:33 - 2:50:35] ▶

so so you think that that some of this is just straight up a mistake that because again maybe we

[2:50:35 - 2:50:44] ▶

but let me counter argue that maybe we are the the separation and advancement of us to birds which

[2:50:44 - 2:50:50] ▶

is quite large let's be honest maybe it's not nearly as large as it is with these civilizations

[2:50:50 - 2:50:56] ▶

how can we even know that like you talk about you talk about in your book you talk about in your book

[2:50:56 - 2:51:03] ▶

not knowing whether or not this is a threat but treating it as it could be and like maybe they're

[2:51:03 - 2:51:10] ▶

on the on the battlefield getting ready for battle right here and they've just been doing it for

[2:51:10 - 2:51:14] ▶

the last I don't know 80 years specifically or something like that because time is you know one second

[2:51:14 - 2:51:19] ▶

to them what is 80 80 years to us like you see where it gets a little convoluted and it gets

[2:51:19 - 2:51:25] ▶

beyond what we can even like have a scope of intelligence well I do and this is why I think this

[2:51:25 - 2:51:29] ▶

type of conversation is so important because we you know we we are always we're putting ourselves

[2:51:29 - 2:51:35] ▶

always in that box of well you know anthropomorphic if there's so much advantage and now as a

[2:51:35 - 2:51:41] ▶

little bit mistake remember we may be dealing something that is uniquely potentially not human at all

[2:51:41 - 2:51:46] ▶

right so it's and it's hard it's hard to do that because we are innately human how do you how do

[2:51:46 - 2:51:54] ▶

not think like a human if that's all we do right so it is I can see how it gets fuzzy I can see

[2:51:54 - 2:51:59] ▶

how people get frustrated and they kind of go through these mental gymnastics of okay well you know

[2:51:59 - 2:52:04] ▶

there are millions of years ahead of us well maybe not maybe they're not the 10 years for 50 years

[2:52:04 - 2:52:09] ▶

ahead of us you know we we we have evolved more in the last 100 years technologically than we

[2:52:09 - 2:52:14] ▶

have in the last 100,000 so so it's it's a logarithmic yeah it's a curve that's right and so so is

[2:52:14 - 2:52:21] ▶

it possible that a hundred years from now that we're going to have the exact same ability that they

[2:52:21 - 2:52:24] ▶

have maybe possible possible they may not be million they may just be a hundred years ahead of us

[2:52:24 - 2:52:29] ▶

or they could be from right here they're just like I said little b-stees we're at the point now

[2:52:29 - 2:52:33] ▶

where we're beginning to interact with them they've been here all along baby we don't know so

[2:52:33 - 2:52:37] ▶

we have to keep this why always tell people in my opinion which I don't like to do very often

[2:52:38 - 2:52:43] ▶

we should keep all options on the table until they're not on the table and are the people out there

[2:52:43 - 2:52:47] ▶

in the government that know more probably probably yeah and that's they should come out they should

[2:52:47 - 2:52:52] ▶

be able to talk to Congress you know that's that's that's that's what I'm trying to do is create an

[2:52:52 - 2:52:57] ▶

environment where we're ultimately the conversation can be had and people have the truth whatever

[2:52:57 - 2:53:01] ▶

that truth is whatever whatever that truth looks like give the people the opportunity to have

[2:53:01 - 2:53:06] ▶

the truth and have the conversation for themselves and then I'm done I'm out well you're you're a veteran

[2:53:06 - 2:53:11] ▶

of this game having been in for the last 16 17 years whatever it is when you were first read in

[2:53:11 - 2:53:16] ▶

and yet when you come into it you're joining a guy like how put off who's been read in at that

[2:53:16 - 2:53:22] ▶

point like 45 years brother don't think that that that fact didn't weigh on me every single person

[2:53:22 - 2:53:29] ▶

there had more experience than me by a lot but you're also you're you're there with like Michael

[2:53:29 - 2:53:34] ▶

Jordan like how do you even concept or conceive like you don't you don't compete with Michael Jordan

[2:53:34 - 2:53:40] ▶

you help Michael Jordan when you're on the team and you come into the new team and you're with

[2:53:40 - 2:53:44] ▶

Michael Jordan Scotty Pippin you don't compete with him you support them that's what you do

[2:53:44 - 2:53:48] ▶

Steve Kerr I'm not even that I'm I'm the guy who's in the sidelines you know giving him towels

[2:53:48 - 2:53:55] ▶

I'm the I'm the towel boy and the water boy no you don't you know and and everybody has I think

[2:53:56 - 2:54:04] ▶

and I don't want to say everybody's a tool because it people are a tool but the reality is that I

[2:54:05 - 2:54:10] ▶

look at I look at all of us as tools and toolbox and some of us are hammers some of us are

[2:54:10 - 2:54:16] ▶

are wrenches some of us are our screwdrivers and you don't use a hammer to do a screwdriver's work

[2:54:16 - 2:54:22] ▶

and you don't use a screwdriver to do a hammer's work right so we all have our own skills just like

[2:54:22 - 2:54:27] ▶

you have yours you know with your audio tech and never do your job I said fail miserably there are

[2:54:27 - 2:54:32] ▶

people in the government have very specific niche capabilities and when you can bring them all

[2:54:32 - 2:54:37] ▶

together that's what makes a successful team that's why you secure you have a great producer you

[2:54:37 - 2:54:41] ▶

get doing what you're doing here and you've got the right people in the right audience and

[2:54:41 - 2:54:44] ▶

it's a team effort it's the same thing with A-tip it's the same thing with anything in the government

[2:54:44 - 2:54:48] ▶

whether it's special operations or anything else it is a team effort it's a team that succeeds and

[2:54:48 - 2:54:54] ▶

there is no I in team in fact I used to make a point when I talked to people about leadership

[2:54:54 - 2:54:59] ▶

because everybody in government for some reason things are leader and they think rank means something

[2:54:59 - 2:55:03] ▶

no I would never believe that it's insane yeah and you know I usually tell people

[2:55:03 - 2:55:09] ▶

anybody who says that their leader probably isn't because a real leader never says that

[2:55:10 - 2:55:15] ▶

what's understood doesn't need to be explained 100% and you know I in government a leader should never

[2:55:15 - 2:55:23] ▶

say the words me mine or I it's always us we in ours right this is this is our team and we

[2:55:23 - 2:55:29] ▶

succeed together and this is my staff you know get the hell out of here I think your staff government

[2:55:29 - 2:55:34] ▶

people are paying for it you moron you know you're a manager you're not a leader with big difference

[2:55:34 - 2:55:40] ▶

you manage people and by the way there was a saying by somebody a quote that he used to like where they

[2:55:40 - 2:55:44] ▶

they say a manager will always say go a leader says let's go and I would take that even a step

[2:55:45 - 2:55:54] ▶

further a great leader says I'll go first I'm through the door first and those are the

[2:55:54 - 2:56:00] ▶

signs of leadership and and that is that is how you succeed whether it's chasing you a foes or

[2:56:00 - 2:56:06] ▶

it's chasing bad guys or or being a politician you know we are just so used to people in these

[2:56:06 - 2:56:14] ▶

positions of authorities saying me mine and I you know yeah I'm the director and my staff and

[2:56:14 - 2:56:19] ▶

my administration well hold on there cowboy didn't your administration it's my administration

[2:56:20 - 2:56:24] ▶

it's our administration we're paying for it right you just you're just doing the job we ask you to do

[2:56:24 - 2:56:28] ▶

that in your administration that's the people's administration but we're so accustomed to it we're

[2:56:28 - 2:56:33] ▶

so used to it that we just accepted now and I reject it man I think this is part of our problem

[2:56:33 - 2:56:39] ▶

and it's not just in the department of defense it's not just in the CIA or in the intelligence

[2:56:39 - 2:56:44] ▶

community it's it's the whole government now man and we are okay with it why yeah why are we

[2:56:44 - 2:56:51] ▶

got so used to so accustomed to to that mindset that we just not only do we not do anything about it

[2:56:51 - 2:56:58] ▶

we agree with it well yeah I understand what you're saying and also like you're a humble guy but

[2:56:58 - 2:57:04] ▶

I don't think there's from the outside based on the story we've been given which is what we can

[2:57:04 - 2:57:10] ▶

go off of I don't think there's any evidence to not say you haven't had a clear leadership role

[2:57:10 - 2:57:15] ▶

whether you like it or not and and whatever this is the disclosure move in or something like that I

[2:57:15 - 2:57:21] ▶

mean you're you're one of the guys this was a little hazy for me just to so correct me if I'm

[2:57:21 - 2:57:27] ▶

gonna be a leader in this in this conversation I wish I shouldn't be this should be no one more

[2:57:27 - 2:57:31] ▶

important than anybody else but you're one of the guys that's responsible or I think the leader that's

[2:57:31 - 2:57:36] ▶

responsible for like releasing the gamble video getting getting getting those things out sure

[2:57:36 - 2:57:42] ▶

I was one of the first guys out of the plane door but you know I'm not I'm not the invasion force brother

[2:57:42 - 2:57:47] ▶

I'm not as this is where again can feel oh it shouldn't be anybody it shouldn't be a who that's

[2:57:47 - 2:57:52] ▶

my point to all this we there shouldn't be any one person in charge and I think that's part of why

[2:57:52 - 2:57:57] ▶

we're succeeding now because this has been such a grassroots movement it has really been something

[2:57:57 - 2:58:03] ▶

amazing this is global man there are people all over the world man that are rallying

[2:58:04 - 2:58:08] ▶

for for full disclosure and that's not because of me I mean but they see you know me on a tv show

[2:58:08 - 2:58:14] ▶

or something like that but but I didn't make this happen this is I think this is a coalescing of

[2:58:14 - 2:58:19] ▶

of people really if I had to if I had to really give anybody credit to you guys it's your

[2:58:20 - 2:58:24] ▶

generation my generation spent the last 70 years screwing this topic up you know your generation

[2:58:24 - 2:58:29] ▶

that are saying you know what we want the truth you know what we have the internet you know so

[2:58:29 - 2:58:35] ▶

I think I think you guys you know my generation has done a good job of blaming you guys like it's

[2:58:35 - 2:58:40] ▶

oh you guys in social media why don't you know he's on social media and YouTube look we in my

[2:58:40 - 2:58:44] ▶

generation invented it right so who we come who's that fault here and you us I think we are where

[2:58:44 - 2:58:50] ▶

we are today in this conversation because your generation has decided not to allow the the stigma

[2:58:50 - 2:58:55] ▶

and taboo that my generation impose on this conversation and you're just having a dialogue and

[2:58:55 - 2:59:01] ▶

that's really why we're having the conversation and well and it's also the tools that are at our

[2:59:01 - 2:59:06] ▶

disposal to be able to spread things around the internet such that when we get evidence like the

[2:59:06 - 2:59:11] ▶

2004 flavor videos the flu video or the 2009 gimbal video which involves some of our

[2:59:11 - 2:59:16] ▶

carrierships and everything like we can at least look at something physical on the screen say oh

[2:59:16 - 2:59:20] ▶

shit right now you now you saw the 2004 video for the first time in 2009 I believe right yeah that

[2:59:20 - 2:59:26] ▶

was actually by Chad underwood it wasn't by framer framer was there as an eyewitness but the video

[2:59:26 - 2:59:30] ▶

was actually taken by another aircraft afterward by Chad underwood okay and that one again showed

[2:59:30 - 2:59:36] ▶

the tic tac that was moving in ways that would match some of the five observables correct correct

[2:59:36 - 2:59:41] ▶

correct what was the first time you saw that did you I mean you talk about be one of these gradual

[2:59:41 - 2:59:47] ▶

guys like were you gradually I saw I saw other videos that's just one I mean that's that's it was

[2:59:47 - 2:59:52] ▶

there was some that were I mean there's one I really wish I could talk about it was in 4k ultra high

[2:59:52 - 2:59:59] ▶

definition video anybody sees that video and there's people in the intel community that have seen

[2:59:59 - 3:00:04] ▶

it and they're just like okay yeah that that's a game changer I mean that there's no doubt we're

[3:00:04 - 3:00:10] ▶

looking at that that point that that is not ours that's what frustrates me because those videos

[3:00:10 - 3:00:17] ▶

are there there are people that are aware of it a lot of people it's kind of a bad kept secret at

[3:00:17 - 3:00:22] ▶

this point the problem is how that video was taken where it was taken under the circumstances is

[3:00:22 - 3:00:26] ▶

very classified so it probably won't ever see the light of day convenient yeah no I'll tell you

[3:00:26 - 3:00:34] ▶

yeah like honestly where it was I mean I'm looking at it I can say yeah that probably shouldn't come

[3:00:34 - 3:00:38] ▶

out you know as compelling as it is because it is there's reasons to keep that that type that those

[3:00:38 - 3:00:46] ▶

there's a couple videos there well more than a couple that that really are sensitive because of

[3:00:46 - 3:00:50] ▶

the circumstances of the collection that we were doing but there's other videos that I think

[3:00:50 - 3:00:56] ▶

should come out I think you can scrub the metadata out of it so your on locational data you know

[3:00:56 - 3:01:02] ▶

there's ways where you can depixelate if you need to to allow something to be released and I'm

[3:01:02 - 3:01:08] ▶

for that as long as we don't give away sources of methods I think we should be as open as possible

[3:01:08 - 3:01:13] ▶

the more videos we can release the better and look some of them might have prosaic explanations

[3:01:13 - 3:01:17] ▶

which would be great right case close on that one what about these other 10 what about these other

[3:01:17 - 3:01:22] ▶

50 right every time arrow comes out with a report and they try to and you know good on them at

[3:01:22 - 3:01:27] ▶

least they're being honest with that they're like we had 144 incidents that we couldn't figure out

[3:01:27 - 3:01:32] ▶

and then it became 300 that it became 600 that it became 800 right and the numbers keep going up

[3:01:32 - 3:01:37] ▶

why because the more we look the more we realize shut their out there man there's there's things that

[3:01:37 - 3:01:41] ▶

are going on that yeah that's that's all our technology we know that because we had no assets

[3:01:41 - 3:01:47] ▶

in the area at the time and you know if that's adversarial technology then we got a real problem

[3:01:47 - 3:01:52] ▶

because god forbid god forbid that this turns out to be adversarial technology because what would

[3:01:52 - 3:01:58] ▶

that mean that would mean for the last 70 plus years some foreign adversary has managed to

[3:01:58 - 3:02:06] ▶

engineer and deploy this capability over our central to military installations over controlled

[3:02:06 - 3:02:12] ▶

your service base and has done so with complete anonymity now where was China back in the 1950s

[3:02:12 - 3:02:18] ▶

in the middle of a famine yeah where was Russia I mean yeah right it's it there's there's no way

[3:02:18 - 3:02:23] ▶

and so this goes back to that question what would that mean well this would be the greatest

[3:02:23 - 3:02:27] ▶

intelligence failure this country has ever experienced eclipsing that of even 9-11 because despite

[3:02:27 - 3:02:33] ▶

the billions of dollars that we spend trying to keep in a competitive technological advantage over

[3:02:33 - 3:02:39] ▶

our adversaries has been eclipsed by by again order of magnitude by some sort some sort of adversary

[3:02:39 - 3:02:46] ▶

so you know it that in itself is a is a problem people bring up as a counter argument well what if

[3:02:46 - 3:02:52] ▶

it's for an adversarial okay well if it is now we're in big trouble if it's from back then we're

[3:02:52 - 3:02:57] ▶

even bigger trouble but there's a third door here and I got to play devil's advocate on this and

[3:02:57 - 3:03:01] ▶

it doesn't by the way I know you can say I don't I don't think it is that there's so many different

[3:03:01 - 3:03:06] ▶

possible sightings of UFOs and capabilities I don't think this can explain everything to be clear

[3:03:06 - 3:03:11] ▶

and I think mathematics just to put my opinion out there so people know where I stand I think

[3:03:11 - 3:03:15] ▶

mathematically from what we even know about the galaxy there has to be intelligent life out there

[3:03:15 - 3:03:20] ▶

somewhere whether or not it's been here we can have that debate but you know I agree with you I

[3:03:20 - 3:03:25] ▶

don't think it can be an adversary because they would have already fucking taken us at this point

[3:03:25 - 3:03:28] ▶

that said just in your program in the Pentagon you had a situation where guys like you were on such a

[3:03:29 - 3:03:36] ▶

small team that people above you and below you didn't even know it existed that's correct okay so

[3:03:36 - 3:03:41] ▶

who's to say that the same thing doesn't exist with oh I don't know DARPA you know where there's

[3:03:41 - 3:03:46] ▶

such a limited number of people who are read in on the fact that that physical world that we have

[3:03:46 - 3:03:52] ▶

as our current laws of physics yeah we we had that figured out after we papercliped everyone in 45

[3:03:52 - 3:03:58] ▶

well let me just say I hope that's a case I would love that to be the case because then I can

[3:03:59 - 3:04:03] ▶

sleep a lot better at night loosely it's better at night the Nazis help us so my point being is that

[3:04:03 - 3:04:09] ▶

we have the technological advantage right I that that this would be some sort of blue force technology

[3:04:09 - 3:04:14] ▶

unfortunately I would not be able to discuss at all what capabilities we might or might not have

[3:04:14 - 3:04:19] ▶

regarding any type of exotic technologies look we got a lot of cool toys if you even knew about it

[3:04:20 - 3:04:24] ▶

though if I if whether knew about or not I I cannot confirm or deny anything regarding any type

[3:04:24 - 3:04:31] ▶

of blue force capability what I can simply say is what we don't have but I can't say what we have

[3:04:31 - 3:04:35] ▶

I mean let me see if I can express explicit with this I cannot

[3:04:36 - 3:04:41] ▶

tell you what we might have and again and I'll take that a step farther for you I'll say probably

[3:04:42 - 3:04:50] ▶

mathematically statistically you also as much as you may know there's a lot of stuff that you and

[3:04:50 - 3:04:56] ▶

anyone else on your team and on other secret teams in the government don't know about each other

[3:04:56 - 3:04:59] ▶

to absolutely we we ran into that all the time yeah absolutely absolutely but the problem is

[3:04:59 - 3:05:05] ▶

someone needs to be the belly button that's why what 9-11 happened remember because the CIA had

[3:05:05 - 3:05:10] ▶

information FBI had information to do the had information well it's useless if you don't have

[3:05:10 - 3:05:15] ▶

somebody coordinating it that's right that's a problem so yes if these other organizations existed

[3:05:15 - 3:05:19] ▶

which looks like some did then there needed to be a single belly button and there wasn't and what

[3:05:19 - 3:05:24] ▶

does that mean that means that leads to to waste of money it to non-coordinated effort you know

[3:05:24 - 3:05:30] ▶

which is again what is it that's a that's a dysfunction of the government so that needs to be fixed

[3:05:30 - 3:05:35] ▶

that's the bureaucracy I was telling you about the issue with the bureaucracy and also therefore if

[3:05:35 - 3:05:40] ▶

the bureaucracy set up so that everything's in cells it makes it even more difficult to get

[3:05:40 - 3:05:45] ▶

through the various chains of commands the need or the urgency to do certain things where you know

[3:05:45 - 3:05:52] ▶

the information and yet people above you who are assigned to make the decision don't so I don't

[3:05:52 - 3:05:57] ▶

think there's any better example of this than what you alleging the book which is that you had

[3:05:57 - 3:06:02] ▶

this thing called Operation Interloper where you wanted to basically set up a fucking you know

[3:06:02 - 3:06:08] ▶

master honey trap on involving one of your carriers out in the sea where a lot of trans medium

[3:06:09 - 3:06:15] ▶

UFOs are allegedly spotted to basically set up this enormous nuclear situation to try to draw

[3:06:15 - 3:06:21] ▶

into the mother load if you will whoever these beings are to come to the ship and you were going

[3:06:21 - 3:06:27] ▶

to use some sort of impetus to like clap them and and collect the evidence and in the end the

[3:06:27 - 3:06:31] ▶

government you know through the chain of command they said you can't do yeah so you're referring

[3:06:31 - 3:06:36] ▶

to the to the issue of compartmentalization and you compartmentalize information because it's

[3:06:36 - 3:06:41] ▶

so sensitive you want to risk any type of compromise to it right so you say and this is really

[3:06:41 - 3:06:47] ▶

really secret so xyz xyz the problem is if it's overly compartmentalized the information that

[3:06:47 - 3:06:54] ▶

ever gets to the person needs to get to in the first place and I'd like to quote real quick for

[3:06:54 - 3:06:59] ▶

interloper you're talking about it by the way jay was very helpful with that he was really one of

[3:06:59 - 3:07:03] ▶

his master yeah he was one of his masterminds him and we put this together but he really he did a

[3:07:03 - 3:07:09] ▶

good job it's a shame it didn't it didn't get approved because it was really it was phenomenal he

[3:07:09 - 3:07:14] ▶

really did most of the heavy lifting on that so I'd like to quote from my my friend Chris melon

[3:07:14 - 3:07:21] ▶

Chris melon is a from the melon family the famous melon family so think Carnegie melon

[3:07:21 - 3:07:27] ▶

yeah think of melon bank melon university right golf oil he's an incredible human being though

[3:07:28 - 3:07:34] ▶

and he was he was a senior staffer for bill co in senator bill co in and then later when bill

[3:07:34 - 3:07:40] ▶

co and become the secretary defense he brought him with him to the Pentagon it became the one of

[3:07:40 - 3:07:45] ▶

the senior most intelligence officials in in the department defense and Chris always reminds me

[3:07:45 - 3:07:52] ▶

um even when I don't want to be reminded because he's he's absolutely right he says uh

[3:07:52 - 3:07:57] ▶

we didn't win the cold war because we kept better secrets the Russians did we won the cold war

[3:07:59 - 3:08:05] ▶

because we knew how to move information more efficiently um than the Russians and he's absolutely

[3:08:05 - 3:08:11] ▶

correct what does he mean by that well classified information if I collect information on xyz and

[3:08:11 - 3:08:17] ▶

you're the guy who needs that information to do something with it I have a way to get that

[3:08:17 - 3:08:21] ▶

information to you very quickly and if you've got a colleague over there that needs that information

[3:08:21 - 3:08:25] ▶

maybe parts x and z you know then how to get that information to him very quickly right so we

[3:08:25 - 3:08:29] ▶

start moving information very fast to actually do something with it actionable right you don't just

[3:08:29 - 3:08:35] ▶

keep a secret for the sake of keeping a secret because if it doesn't get to who it needs to get to

[3:08:35 - 3:08:39] ▶

then it's useless it you're wasting your time in your money secret information is only valuable

[3:08:39 - 3:08:44] ▶

because you can do something with it when you need to right and this goes kind of through the

[3:08:44 - 3:08:49] ▶

conversation I've always said about secrets secrets a lot of people think are like a fine wine

[3:08:49 - 3:08:53] ▶

where the longer you keep a cork on it the better it gets um and I disagree I've always told people I

[3:08:53 - 3:08:58] ▶

think secrets have a shelf life they're perishable they're like vegetables in your refrigerator

[3:08:58 - 3:09:02] ▶

and the longer you leave in the refrigerator at some point they're going to start to rot and they're

[3:09:02 - 3:09:05] ▶

going to stink and then you're going to have a bigger mess on your hands to clean up and so secrets

[3:09:05 - 3:09:09] ▶

are only as good um for the time that you need them and to get them to the people who need it

[3:09:09 - 3:09:15] ▶

the information otherwise you're you're wasting your time in your money there's no there's no

[3:09:15 - 3:09:19] ▶

reason to have classified information or collect intelligence if you're not you're doing anything with it

[3:09:19 - 3:09:23] ▶

so that is part of my with this with the a tip conversation you need to have a single belly button and

[3:09:25 - 3:09:32] ▶

this is why arrow was such a I think such a pivotal moment for us for disclosure because now the

[3:09:32 - 3:09:38] ▶

government's recognizing yes we need a single belly button now can they do a better job and I think

[3:09:38 - 3:09:44] ▶

we'll agree they can do a lot of their job but they're getting there I think I think hopefully with

[3:09:44 - 3:09:47] ▶

this new director we might start seeing some some new focus so I'm very optimistic about that

[3:09:47 - 3:09:53] ▶

uh was something like interloper it was not in a place it needed to be obviously correct

[3:09:53 - 3:09:57] ▶

into it correct the right people in the chain of command didn't know what was going on

[3:09:57 - 3:10:02] ▶

and you can't talk about because you have thoughts yeah yeah but I'm saying for the actual

[3:10:03 - 3:10:08] ▶

planned event you were doing correct me if I'm wrong here it's it's classified information exactly

[3:10:08 - 3:10:14] ▶

how you were going to I can't discuss exactly correct I can't I can't discuss the the the methodology

[3:10:14 - 3:10:21] ▶

I could probably go back to the Pentagon and request permission maybe I should yeah let's do that

[3:10:21 - 3:10:26] ▶

let's get them on the phone yeah well you gotta go through dobser it's a little more complicated

[3:10:26 - 3:10:31] ▶

it took my book almost a year to get through that process and it was like birthing an elephant

[3:10:31 - 3:10:34] ▶

and still then he's they still redacted information believe it or not yeah a little bit I tried

[3:10:35 - 3:10:39] ▶

like hell man to keep that I wanted the whole thing to go through but um it wasn't much though

[3:10:39 - 3:10:43] ▶

yeah no games you know yeah well another step there's a different couple pages yeah exactly which is

[3:10:43 - 3:10:49] ▶

shame did they shorten that meaning like was it way more like it it would black out like 15 lines

[3:10:49 - 3:10:55] ▶

but was it really like you know 1500 lines no it was 15 lines I made it exactly I wanted everybody

[3:10:55 - 3:11:00] ▶

to see exactly the person didn't want you to see I did that on purpose I know what that's

[3:11:00 - 3:11:04] ▶

full transparency right I can't sit here and scream about what government transparency if I'm not

[3:11:04 - 3:11:08] ▶

gonna be transparent myself so what you see is what you get that book was put in and what you see in

[3:11:08 - 3:11:12] ▶

those black lines is exactly the paragraph for the line or the names he did not want released

[3:11:12 - 3:11:17] ▶

and I said okay you know I'm not gonna I'm not gonna leak information yeah it wasn't it wasn't in my

[3:11:17 - 3:11:21] ▶

opinion and someone has just like a person read I didn't I didn't think it was like that month

[3:11:21 - 3:11:25] ▶

there was there was one there I really wished it would have left it could have been an eye opener

[3:11:25 - 3:11:29] ▶

but I can't yeah it was really it's got I'm sorry I'm not removing stuff as no no no it's it's a

[3:11:30 - 3:11:37] ▶

a particular UAP incident that really was you know it would have definitely been another gold standard

[3:11:37 - 3:11:43] ▶

but that didn't want me talking all right let's see if we can get it later but the the remote

[3:11:43 - 3:11:47] ▶

viewing thing is actually on on that note interesting because you you know you're making a big

[3:11:47 - 3:11:52] ▶

claim in there you are also explaining within your book that you did some remote viewing yourself

[3:11:52 - 3:12:00] ▶

like when you found out this was a thing with project stargate which allegedly have been shut down

[3:12:00 - 3:12:05] ▶

and all that with guys like Joe McMonical and for people out there obviously remote viewing is

[3:12:05 - 3:12:09] ▶

the ability to be able to see things that are happening in another in another place at another time

[3:12:09 - 3:12:14] ▶

because you access what does that thing called again the PC in your brain the oh that's yeah the

[3:12:14 - 3:12:21] ▶

Quarate put them in no but that's yeah the my mixing up Gary Nolan's yeah yeah that's okay okay

[3:12:21 - 3:12:26] ▶

but either way like you're able to do some wild shit and there's also something about a lot of the

[3:12:26 - 3:12:31] ▶

people who are able to do this have some sort of blood that ties back to Cherokee Nation yeah that

[3:12:31 - 3:12:35] ▶

was some of the the analysis that was done by by the medical professionals and let me also

[3:12:35 - 3:12:40] ▶

stay for the record I never thought it was really good at remote viewing I think remote viewing is

[3:12:40 - 3:12:43] ▶

frankly it's as a vestigial capability I think most human beings can do it actually quite easily

[3:12:43 - 3:12:47] ▶

I always say look you know you're out of town you you call your significant other because you

[3:12:47 - 3:12:51] ▶

have this urge to call them and they're like oh my god I was just thinking of you right it's I

[3:12:51 - 3:12:56] ▶

am I my own purse which I don't like to but my own personal belief is that this is it's nothing any

[3:12:56 - 3:13:02] ▶

anything woo woo it's just based in science probably quantum mechanics a lot of a lot of scientists

[3:13:02 - 3:13:07] ▶

now neurosurgeons and neuroscientists believe that human consciousness let me say consciousness

[3:13:07 - 3:13:12] ▶

I don't mean like the world is about about the blossom I'm talking about the cognitive

[3:13:12 - 3:13:17] ▶

ability of the human being outside of necessarily intelligence what what makes you you right

[3:13:18 - 3:13:22] ▶

now your body and not even your intelligence it's there's something else that's uniquely you

[3:13:22 - 3:13:26] ▶

and that's what we're calling you to go unconscious I said that some neuroscientists are speculating

[3:13:26 - 3:13:32] ▶

it may be actually a form of quantum entanglement that occurs in a brain and that is what is that is

[3:13:32 - 3:13:39] ▶

where that that relies that that self identity that that's sentience if you will

[3:13:39 - 3:13:45] ▶

it's possible that if that's a case that remote viewing is a something we've always had for a

[3:13:47 - 3:13:53] ▶

very long time before we had the language skills that we have now and the ability to verbally

[3:13:53 - 3:13:57] ▶

communicate simultaneously in a language all around the world you know we didn't have that

[3:13:57 - 3:14:02] ▶

before we were living in tiny little little villages and caves and whatnot so when you came across

[3:14:02 - 3:14:07] ▶

another human being there probably wasn't much of a spoken language and there probably wasn't much

[3:14:07 - 3:14:11] ▶

ability to communicate so you had to be able to identify if something is a threatening or not

[3:14:11 - 3:14:15] ▶

it's kind of like when two dogs walk into a room when they first walk into a room there's some sort

[3:14:15 - 3:14:19] ▶

of nonverbal communication that is occurring and it's quite possible that this is nothing more than

[3:14:19 - 3:14:25] ▶

a vestigial capability left over when humans were much more basic and maybe relied upon it for survival

[3:14:25 - 3:14:30] ▶

you know this was a survival mechanism you know is that friend or foe you know I'm not going to be

[3:14:30 - 3:14:34] ▶

eating or is he going to help me catch tiger so the problem is that you know we always like to put

[3:14:35 - 3:14:40] ▶

labels on things you know and I used to give a little presentation where I would I would kind of

[3:14:40 - 3:14:46] ▶

highlight that I'd say look what is your what is your definition of when I say parachute for example

[3:14:46 - 3:14:53] ▶

when I show a picture of a parachute and I'd say you know what is para comes from the trunk it's

[3:14:53 - 3:14:58] ▶

a Latin prefix meaning about meaning above or beside and so when you say parachute you think of

[3:14:58 - 3:15:03] ▶

thing that shoots over your head and helps you at the ground with the with the hopefully a thump

[3:15:03 - 3:15:06] ▶

and not a thud and then I say what does a word paramedic mean to you and then you know people say

[3:15:06 - 3:15:11] ▶

what's first responders and a tamedic you know that's helping you and then I usually ask people

[3:15:11 - 3:15:17] ▶

what about paranormal and then people will see you just did it right there right some people will

[3:15:17 - 3:15:22] ▶

smile kind of look at you kind of crazy you know I did that because there's a stigma associated with

[3:15:22 - 3:15:29] ▶

the word paranormal now I would submit to you the word paranormal is no different than parachute

[3:15:29 - 3:15:33] ▶

or paramedic in fact it just means something that is outside of our current understanding of what

[3:15:33 - 3:15:38] ▶

normal current understanding current in fact I would tell you I would submit to you that the

[3:15:38 - 3:15:41] ▶

definition of of anything in science is paranormal till it becomes normal my cell phone 40 years

[3:15:41 - 3:15:48] ▶

ago absolutely paranormal right the electromagnetic spectrum absolutely paranormal 150 years ago now

[3:15:48 - 3:15:54] ▶

it's routine right so we have created these artificial barriers in our understanding of what could

[3:15:54 - 3:16:02] ▶

just frankly just be advanced science but because we don't understand it we stigmatize it with

[3:16:02 - 3:16:07] ▶

terms like paranormal right and then we have think of tinfoil hats and ghost busters and things

[3:16:07 - 3:16:13] ▶

like that when in reality it may not be it just may just be new science and so we have to kind of

[3:16:13 - 3:16:19] ▶

limit them when you talk about removing people kind of put that into the paranormal category I don't

[3:16:19 - 3:16:25] ▶

think it's paranormal at all I think it's probably just some sort of quantum process in the brain

[3:16:25 - 3:16:29] ▶

yeah I actually think your explanation here this is one place where it was way better than in the book

[3:16:29 - 3:16:34] ▶

because in the book I think it maybe it's just how it gets written on the page sometimes it made it

[3:16:34 - 3:16:38] ▶

seem like you had the superpower or something in some ways and I think that's for people who

[3:16:38 - 3:16:43] ▶

criticize you know I don't think so not at all no I think it's it's it's it's probably

[3:16:43 - 3:16:49] ▶

rudimentary I think most everybody has it to some degree and I wasn't even particularly good at it

[3:16:49 - 3:16:54] ▶

so I think once you understand how it works and when you able to recover I forget were you able to

[3:16:54 - 3:16:59] ▶

recover like some sort of data wasn't there something involving like a terrorist that you were

[3:16:59 - 3:17:02] ▶

able to remote view into yeah yeah I mean I we got some guys there was an ambush that was set up

[3:17:02 - 3:17:08] ▶

I had to some you know I'll get into it but there's some there's some people colleagues of mine that

[3:17:08 - 3:17:12] ▶

were there for him witnessed it how did you see that you know that's a whole other conversation

[3:17:12 - 3:17:18] ▶

we could sit here for two hours to talk about there's other people that are way more qualified

[3:17:18 - 3:17:21] ▶

like Joe McMannagall and and some of these you know Ingalls Juan and some other folks that are

[3:17:21 - 3:17:27] ▶

you know who should have is probably help put off because he was the godfather

[3:17:27 - 3:17:30] ▶

I will he's the guy to have he is the godfather he actually I'll drive him here myself created it

[3:17:30 - 3:17:39] ▶

for the CIA and then later on the I went it was called grill flame and some other names before

[3:17:39 - 3:17:43] ▶

that before we came stargate you know I would often ask him later on in my career we would he

[3:17:43 - 3:17:50] ▶

would ask me I'm telling things that we would do and you know ask him to tell you about the

[3:17:50 - 3:17:55] ▶

about the Metro DC Metro incident okay I'll let him tell you that say hey how Luke told me to ask

[3:17:57 - 3:18:03] ▶

you about when he told you about the 90 days and the and the DC Metro issue and then see if you

[3:18:03 - 3:18:09] ▶

remember say yeah now Lou I'd say I have one more question for you but that's a lie but I only have

[3:18:09 - 3:18:14] ▶

one more question for you strictly because I have to get you the hell out of here in a couple okay I'm

[3:18:14 - 3:18:18] ▶

a Gemini like lung walks on the beach and the pinia caladas that's what you're gonna ask isn't it no

[3:18:18 - 3:18:24] ▶

but we I want to if we can I I'll talk to you off camera afterwards I want to get you back here in

[3:18:24 - 3:18:29] ▶

November because there's a lot including that last topic right there that we got to go deeper into

[3:18:29 - 3:18:33] ▶

and of course I'd love to talk without put off that being credible but you know you talk about

[3:18:33 - 3:18:37] ▶

still being religious yourself and being the word you use in your book is is spiritual and now you've

[3:18:37 - 3:18:43] ▶

had access to so many things that relate directly to the meaning of life so through it all do you

[3:18:43 - 3:18:49] ▶

as it currently stands do you believe in God absolutely I think I think knowledge reinforces

[3:18:50 - 3:18:59] ▶

it might religion it might it might modify a little bit of our interpretive look

[3:18:59 - 3:19:04] ▶

information doesn't threaten God all it does is threaten our understanding of God and there's a

[3:19:05 - 3:19:10] ▶

difference right there's a big difference there it's like when the church with Galileo you're

[3:19:10 - 3:19:16] ▶

gonna be so the fact that you're saying that the earth is not the center of the solar system you're

[3:19:16 - 3:19:19] ▶

going to be going against religion no actually what you're doing is you reinforcing the notion of the

[3:19:19 - 3:19:23] ▶

preeminence of of of something bigger and greater and that the universe is much more complex so we

[3:19:23 - 3:19:28] ▶

could often ever possibly comprehend and that's been my experience this hasn't threatened my my

[3:19:28 - 3:19:36] ▶

spirituality at all it's like to reinforce it significantly wow yeah all right we're gonna have to

[3:19:36 - 3:19:43] ▶

dig into that next time thank you so much for doing this I really appreciate the fact that you know

[3:19:43 - 3:19:49] ▶

you have answered a lot of tough questions today as well no my own privilege I'm still I'm still

[3:19:49 - 3:19:54] ▶

gonna keep some of my skepticism but there's other things that I think you're a really good argument

[3:19:54 - 3:19:58] ▶

hey healthy skepticism is important I'm not asking you not to be skeptical about things I'm asking

[3:19:58 - 3:20:03] ▶

you not to be a skeptic it's a big difference healthy skepticism is important because it takes

[3:20:03 - 3:20:08] ▶

it takes all sides to have the conversation agreed you know and I think the fact that we can do

[3:20:08 - 3:20:12] ▶

this here in a civil way respectful of each other is proof that you know some of the folks in the

[3:20:12 - 3:20:17] ▶

community can do the same thing you know and stop throwing arrows at each other and and being petty let's

[3:20:17 - 3:20:22] ▶

let's work together right as much as we possibly can let's focus on the 80% of the stuff that we

[3:20:22 - 3:20:27] ▶

agree on maybe table the 20% that we don't fair enough well low thank you so much

[3:20:27 - 3:20:33] ▶

I'm gonna see you again soon congratulations on the book and all the success well deserved

[3:20:33 - 3:20:38] ▶

everybody else you know what it is give it a thought get back to me peace and please subscribe

[3:20:38 - 3:20:42] ▶

thank you guys for watching the episode before you leave please be sure to hit that subscribe

[3:20:42 - 3:20:46] ▶

button and smash that like button on the video it's a huge help and also if you're over on

[3:20:46 - 3:20:50] ▶

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[3:20:50 - 3:20:56] ▶

D Dory both links are in the description below finally if you'd like to catch up on our latest

[3:20:56 - 3:21:01] ▶

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