1,351 segments
I'm going to be a part of the show.
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Welcome to the show.
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Thank you very much.
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I have heard a lot about you from several of the previous guests.
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I've read about you.
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I've seen documentaries about you.
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Your hard band reached.
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Been trying to make contact for quite a while.
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And Joe and Scooter finally, they were the ones that made the connection.
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So I just want to say thank you to Joe and Penn Scooter.
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I'm glad to be here.
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It's an honor to have you here.
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But everybody gets an introduction here.
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So we'll knock that out.
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First, Frederick Holmes, Skip At Water.
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You are a counterspy during the Cold War era where you used your natural psychic app
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institute as a US Army counterintelligence special agent.
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You played a key role in the remote viewing intelligence program now known to the world
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by the code name Stargate.
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For 10 years, you were the operations and training officer of this secret remote-remote viewing
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You recruited and trained in elite cadre of professional intelligence officers to do
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remote viewing for the Department of Defense and various members of the National Intelligence
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After retiring from the Army, you became president of the Monroe Institute in Virginia in your
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book project 8200, UFO, UAP basis and activities, the original remote viewing transcripts.
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You show us the results of Pat Price's famous exploration of four mountains around the
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world where price believed UFO bases were located.
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After the author of Captain of my ship, Master of my Soul, Living with Guidance, you have
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been featured in several film documentaries, including Ghosts in the Afterlife, a scientific
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investigation and third eye spies.
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Sure, I'm missing quite a bit there, but that's quite deep.
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That's what you're going to see.
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But I have been fascinated with this subject for many years now and with every person that
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I interview, I just get more intrigued.
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You have been involved in this almost since the very beginning from what I understand.
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Some of the things that I would like, two main things I would like to do in this interview
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is one to cover your life story and how you got involved in this.
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I would also like to go over the history of the Stargate program and how it came on the
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map for United States intelligence.
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I can talk about all that.
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But before we get two in the weeds, I have a Patreon account.
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Patreon, it's a subscription account.
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There are top supporters, a lot of these folks have been with us since the very beginning
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and they're the reason I get to sit here and you're here as well.
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One of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question.
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This question is from Jay.
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What neurological structures in the brain are responsible for these altered states of consciousness?
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Is it simply dreaming?
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That is an interesting question because we've been thinking about the brain for a long time
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and the brain is this and the brain is that and it used to be thought of hundreds of years
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That's just to keep your head warm.
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They don't know what the brain is and it's going on up there.
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But it's something that over the past 50, 100 years has become the answer to everything.
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If it's this, oh, it's in the brain, you have to fix this part of the brain right here.
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That's what's wrong with it.
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And so him asking this question is a reasonable one given the education we have now.
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I'm not so sure that 50 years from now, that will be much of a question because it seems
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that all these things that people do, whether it's remote viewing or whatever they call it,
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seems to have something to do with quantum non-locality or the everywhere, every when of
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What did you call it first, the quantum?
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Non-locality is a technical term for it.
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But they had to invent that 60 years ago because they didn't know what was going on.
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There's lots of science on saying that there's no space and there's no time.
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And these people will just call them remote viewers because it's a good thing to use as
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a name, not that I like that so much, but that's okay.
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I'm not going to go through all these things.
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What do you call it?
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I attempt to list out several different things.
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Is that the word that one should use?
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It's a word that people toss around a lot.
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Are you clairvoyant?
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Are those words that you toss and pass around?
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But Inga Swann coined the word remote viewing because when he went to work with Stanford
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Research Institute, they didn't want to say, well, we're training psychics here.
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No, let's just call it remote viewing.
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That would probably be better, which I've gotten sidetracked in talking a lot here, but
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it's not really remote viewing because there's nothing that's remote.
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Everything is all one thing.
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That's the quantum non-locality.
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These people that are doing the remote viewing have the ability to perceive everywhere and
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Some of them decide to call it this and call it that and call it this, but it looks an
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awful lot at least for the next 50 years to be quantum non-locality.
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I limit that 50 year thing because each unit of time, like there is no time, right?
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Each unit of time we go through, suddenly things are different.
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I mean, wasn't the earth flat at one time and wasn't everything orbiting around us?
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No, it's us going around the sun.
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That's an interesting idea.
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Those kinds of large breakthroughs in science takes a while for us to figure them out and
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generations to figure them out.
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I can only think that maybe in the future generations, it won't be what we think it is now.
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Makes a lot of sense.
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Makes a lot of sense.
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Back to the original question.
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So it's not a dream.
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Well, then we've defined something called a dream and by using the word dream, we all
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tell us, oh, that wasn't really real.
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It was just a dream.
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Perhaps it's a different kind of knowing and it's coded when you have a dream about this,
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You know what that really was?
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How important things are to me when I think about this and I had a dream about it and it
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reminded me when this happened and that happened.
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I don't think there's anybody who really knows what a dream is except that they go, oh, it's
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Don't worry about it.
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So do you, this is interesting.
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Do you, and I know this is going to tie into your childhood too, I think.
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But do you think that every dream needs to be deciphered and dissected and decoded?
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If you mean just tell my wife what my dream was, I think that's a good thing to talk about.
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No, I don't think that it's a thing to be decoded and figured out and you should go
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see your psychiatrist and say, I need help understanding this dream.
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It's a matter of, obviously there are people who have real problems with that and they
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should see the proper help.
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When you, it's not, it's just, it's a passing thing, you know, when you talk, what was,
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I'm sorry, what was the terminology and quantum quantum nonlocality, quantum nonlocality.
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And then comes from quantum physics, which is a brand new thing only 60 years old and making
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There's no space, no time.
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Everything is everywhere.
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Every when and I'm going to go too far on this.
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People turn the channel off to, like I said, oh no, they're not going to turn the channel
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Because reason I'm asking is I don't understand, I've tried to talk about this so many times
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and it's just over my head.
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And so when we say there's no space and no time and everything's happening all at once
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in the now, correct?
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What does that mean?
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So what was yesterday?
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If there's no space and no time, there's no yesterday.
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There's no passing or future because it's all happening at once.
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Because that's the way it is.
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It's a very interesting thing to ask those questions because many, many, many different
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people, thousands, millions of people and different cultures have come along and tried to answer
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all those questions.
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So I think what that means is that's the right question.
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The fact that they can't answer it.
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But in what I've been doing for a number of years says that this information we get
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can only have come to this person one way.
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And that's the fact that they know this because they didn't read it in a book.
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They know this because they didn't get a phone call saying, you ought to watch out for
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They got a message from beyond space and time and came up with some information that
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So if everything's happening all at once, all the time and there is no time, then that
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means every, you could break it down into, you could break a millisecond down into what,
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an nanosecond and break that down and it just continuously, it never ends.
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You can just keep dissecting and so does that mean where is all this happening all
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That means everything's happening all at once.
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So that means what I just said two seconds ago is happening again, correct?
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There's no again if it's all at once.
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Help me understand this.
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I just thought of a joke in my head when you were talking.
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It's like, you know, he's trying a second chance.
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You know, I snip the word second.
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Yeah, I'm glad to be of help, but I am as confused about it too except for things happen
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in my life and other people too that say, it's funny you brought that up because I was
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just thinking about that too.
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And do you think that means this and this and it's like, well, how could you have thought
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about it yesterday morning and I think about it two days later and it's the same thing.
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Doesn't that mean there's a little hint that we are all one together and I use a gesture
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that you might want to cut out, but I always say, God, I don't, yes, God is a religious
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And it's, we're getting off track here, but it's in my head.
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There is, I saw interesting street scene done with Muslims and the guy was driving up
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in a taxi or a car and all the little kids came around and said, give me, give me, give
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me, give me, give me, give me, give me.
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And the guy got out of the car and went like that and they walked away from him because
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everything that comes to you comes from what we believe in, not by me giving you quarters
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or whatever out the window.
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And it was an interesting in the movie.
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It was an interesting lesson.
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He was teaching those kids.
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They're used to trying to find something to eat and run down the street and trace anybody
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that looks a foreigner or whoever to give them some money and make their life better.
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And this guy got out and he just went like that and all the kids are like interesting.
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So if no time, so I'm trying to understand the concept of no time, everything's happening
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at once, but what is the space when you say there's no space?
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What does that mean?
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In my mind, if I back up hundreds of years and watch the way people have organized what
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they thought was space, like we talked about a minute ago in terms of the earth is the
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center of everything.
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And everything else goes around the earth.
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And then you think, well, no, look at it.
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We've measured out over the years and we found out that not everything is a center of
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As a matter of fact, if you look, there's things out there, they're really strange and there's
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a bunch of things out there and we're calling those planets.
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Well, how do you know it's doing that?
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Well, it took a long time for guys to figure it out and watch it happen.
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So we are beginning to think now that this thing we call space is infinite.
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There isn't a place where, well, when do we stop having planets and suns and stars?
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And it's a good question because some of them say everything was supposed to collapse
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back in billion years from now and start all over again with a big bang and then time
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went by and the scientists looked out and said, all of those things aren't coming back.
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They just keep going further and further and further away until as time passes, like
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there really is time.
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It will be so far away, we can't see it anymore.
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Well then are we alone in the universe?
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What space all about?
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That's interesting because the universe is expanding.
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So we will hit up and they can see the beginning, they can see the big bang from what I understand
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is supposedly correct.
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They happened however many.
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And so I will challenge that statement not that it's a big deal.
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Yes, the big bang is the thing.
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Well, how much longer, well that stick will that always be, that's the way it is or a
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hundred years from now, 200, 500 years from now, they will say, you know that big bang
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thing just doesn't work.
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Yeah, I mean Pluto is no longer a planet, lots of things, but I'm just always fascinated
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in the subject, I'm trying to wrap my head around it and I don't, maybe I just don't
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have the IQ level to comprehend it.
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No, I think you're the one that's supposed to ask those questions and share those answers
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with the world around you, too, you are.
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I know everybody out there has to be just as frustrated as I am when it comes to the BS
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and the rhetoric that the mainstream media continuously tries to force feed us.
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I also know how frustrating it can be to try to find some type of a reliable news source.
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It's getting really hard to find the truth and what's going on in the country and in
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One thing we've done here at Sean Ryan Show is we are developing our newsletter.
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The first contributor to the newsletter that we have is a woman former CIA targetter.
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Some of you may know her as Sarah Adams, call sign super bad.
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She's made two different appearances here on the Sean Ryan Show and some of the stuff
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that she has uncovered and broke on this show is just absolutely mind blowing.
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And so I've asked her if she would contribute to the newsletter and give us a weekly intelligence
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So it's going to be all thanks terrorists.
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How terrorists are coming up through the southern border, how they're entering the
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country, how they're traveling, what these different terrorist organizations throughout
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the world are up to.
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Here's the best part.
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The newsletter is actually free.
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We're not going to spam you.
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It's about one newsletter a week, maybe two if we release two shows.
[0:20:36 - 0:20:41] ▶
The only other thing that's going to be in there besides the intel brief is if we have
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a new product or something like that.
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But like I said, it's a free CIA intelligence brief.
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Sign up, links in the description or in the comments.
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We'll see you in the newsletter.
[0:20:57 - 0:20:58] ▶
Well, Skip, let's get into your story real quick before we do everybody gets a, everybody
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Made here in the USA, Michigan.
[0:21:24 - 0:21:28] ▶
Bring that home to my family and I'll say really?
[0:21:30 - 0:21:33] ▶
Oh, those look really good.
[0:21:33 - 0:21:35] ▶
Well, Skip, like I had mentioned at the beginning, you're a massive part, played a massive role
[0:21:37 - 0:21:45] ▶
in the Stargate program and, and, and remote viewing and, and, and, and in US intelligence.
[0:21:45 - 0:21:54] ▶
And so I want to talk about your journey on, on how that all came about.
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And so let's kind of start with, let's start in childhood.
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Where did you grow up?
[0:22:03 - 0:22:04] ▶
I grew up in Southern California and my dad was a dentist and my mother's father was
[0:22:05 - 0:22:14] ▶
So the family business was dentistry for them.
[0:22:16 - 0:22:19] ▶
And, um, there were a couple of kind of childhood things that were interesting to me
[0:22:20 - 0:22:27] ▶
because they seemed normal to me because they were happening in the family.
[0:22:27 - 0:22:33] ▶
And then as I got older, I would say, well, you know, I got kind of a weird family.
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And I, it was, it sounds like I didn't like them because they were weird.
[0:22:39 - 0:22:45] ▶
It was more of a casual comment about that.
[0:22:46 - 0:22:50] ▶
My mom used to talk to, um, animals that died, they had a dog or everything and they'd
[0:22:50 - 0:22:59] ▶
tell us kids is it, but they're fine.
[0:22:59 - 0:23:01] ▶
I talk to them and they're going to be okay and so forth.
[0:23:01 - 0:23:04] ▶
And I was like, okay, mom, I'm going to school.
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Um, and, um, I guess one of the stories is an interesting bed-wetting story.
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When I was 10 or a little bit younger than 10, I was still wetting my bed.
[0:23:17 - 0:23:22] ▶
But I wasn't teased about it.
[0:23:22 - 0:23:25] ▶
It was just a thing that I had to pull the sheets off the bed and run them through the
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washer and then make the bed again.
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And it was, but it wasn't teasing or anything else.
[0:23:31 - 0:23:35] ▶
Of course, I felt a little of that at school, but people would talk about that.
[0:23:36 - 0:23:39] ▶
And one night I, um, woke up in bed and the bed was all wet.
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And I was screaming and mad at what had happened because there was no reason for this.
[0:23:49 - 0:23:55] ▶
It was an embarrassing thing for me with two older sisters and school kids talking about it.
[0:23:56 - 0:24:01] ▶
So my mother came in, are you alright?
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Do you fell out of bed?
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Why, why are you screaming?
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What's it all about?
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And I said, I went into the bathroom and I sat on the toilet and when I began to pee,
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I woke up here in bed and now my bed's all wet and, you know, very angry, very really
[0:24:18 - 0:24:28] ▶
There's a joke in the end.
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It really pissed me off at any rate.
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My mom put her arm around me and she said, Oh, it's okay.
[0:24:38 - 0:24:42] ▶
And I was like, why it's so cool about it and say anything.
[0:24:44 - 0:24:48] ▶
She says, you know, sometimes you're in your body and sometimes you're not in your body.
[0:24:48 - 0:24:55] ▶
So when you go into the bathroom, you have to make really sure that you went to the bathroom
[0:24:58 - 0:25:04] ▶
because it's obvious you didn't.
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And we go back to the discussion of dreams.
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Maybe you dreamed you went into the bathroom and you didn't.
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And you peed you bed again.
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Well, that left a idea in my head as the days rolled by and the weeks rolled by.
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It was like, what does she mean by you're not in your body?
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And so I would kind of practice it night and found that I could get up and look out the
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window and then look back and I was in bed.
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And I said, that's pretty weird.
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And as time went on, I would jump out the window and I'd
[0:25:50 - 0:25:55] ▶
my out of body state would jump out the window and I learned to trust that.
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So when you say, let's rewind for just a second, when you say you would get out of bed
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and look out the window and then you would look back and you would be in bed.
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How old were you when this started to happen right around 10?
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It would be over 10.
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So maybe in the next year or two, those things started to happen.
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Do you remember the first time that happened?
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What were you thinking?
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Well, I want to go out and play with my friends.
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I found the first thing that I ran into when I'd go away from my sleeping south and
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in bed that I was in some sort of school situation like night school or something.
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I was in something called night school.
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But then when I got a little bit older, I started going find my friends.
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Where's Mikey down the road?
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Well, hey, what if I go over here and find this and they were out of their bodies too,
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although they didn't realize it like I did.
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So that became part of my life growing up.
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So does that mean when you interact with somebody in a dream?
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You believe they are also out of body?
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I can't answer that question.
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I can only say what my experience was.
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Question is, are they out of body?
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And I'm not so sure that we use the term out of body.
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It happens in the hospitals and dying events and everything else.
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So we've classified that as, oh, you were out of your body.
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And then I say, wait a minute, Skip.
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You're everywhere, every when.
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There's not a being in the body.
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You're being out of the body.
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So I had to just, well, I mean, I shouldn't talk so much because I don't know what the heck's
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The next thing that was kind of like that, telling the story of the weird family I grew up with,
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which contributes to my eventual career when I was older and was into, you know,
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high school and cars and stuff like that, I got a car from my dad's nurse.
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She gave me a car and I crawled underneath and started taking it apart and everything.
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My dad was really liberal.
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It was okay if I took stuff apart in the garage gut dirty and he'd look under the car and say,
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how are you doing down there?
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Are you making any progress?
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And he very much, and let me find out for myself and let me figure it out for myself.
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And got that taken care of.
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And then later I bought my uncle's car for $100, $54 Ford and immediately I went to the other
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uncle who gave me a $292 engine, which I had punched out 60,000s with a racing cam in it and so
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forth and so on. But there was something else going on.
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I could look at the car, laying underneath it and look at it and say, oh, I see what's wrong.
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The exhaust pipe bracket is loose and it wasn't something that I could see physically.
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It was like I could see through it.
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And later in life, I learned they had a name for that called remote viewing.
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And I was like, well, that's pretty weird.
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I guess when you go to a mechanic to get your car fixed, that's why our mechanics know what's
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wrong with your car because they can do that. Just like I was doing with my car.
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Later I found out that isn't what they were doing.
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Wow. That's part of this development thing that's happening in my weird family again
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that does it. And one more short story. When I was going to elementary school,
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my mom sometimes picked me up from school and we were, she drove a
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Osmobiles station wagon that had the fake wood on the sides and the little hood over the top of the
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windshield. And she picked me up on this side of the street over here.
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And then she looked up and down and then she'd throw a big ui to turn around and go up to where
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our house was. Well, one day when she turned the ui, the door swung open. And I went
[0:31:00 - 0:31:09] ▶
floating out and she turned up and looked at me. And I floated back in.
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And then I reached over and got the door and closed it. And she said, you're always going to have
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to close that, you know, because it can open up anytime you want. And we didn't talk about it later.
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I didn't say, what was that floaty thing all about? How did you do that? And it's like that wasn't
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up for discussion. It just things happened. Wow. So that's the weird family. I grew up in.
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And when it came time to
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get drafted, I'd go into college and everything. And then finally I got out of college and got jobs
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and I wanted to just go make a career out of it and so forth and so on until
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that came what's the expression that comes through and they said greetings.
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You are classified 1a and we have a draft and so forth and so on. And the minute that happened
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when I was going around to different department stores looking for jobs, they said, and so what's
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your draft status? Oh, they just got me in 1a here. And they said, well, we can't hire you.
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And I said, what do you mean? You can't hire me. She says, well, if you get a job here and say
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you work up a little bit in management, you become a cashier and then you become a section of the
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store manager and then you finally become the assistant store manager and you get drafted.
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And they have to keep that position open for you. You have to be able to walk out of the army
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afterwards and go into that same position even if you're in the army three years or whatever.
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So we don't hire people that are 1a. And I said, well, I know how to straighten that out.
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I walked down the street and found the recruiter and I said, I have to join the army because I have
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to get rid of this thing hanging over my head. I'm never going to get anywhere if I don't get rid
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of this thing. And he says, well, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I don't know what's
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there to do? And he said, well, look at those brochures over there. And spend some time looking
[0:33:32 - 0:33:38] ▶
down. See if you see something there that you'd really like to do. And so I went over and looked
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at the brochures and I saw this one, the blue one, the trifold blue one. And it said, army intelligence.
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And I said, what about this one? This looks really interesting. Oh, I'm sorry, but I can't
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interview you about that. That's not what I do here in the recruiter's office. And I said, but
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this looks really interesting to me. I have some college behind me and speaks fanish and so forth.
[0:34:00 - 0:34:06] ▶
And I, what do you mean you can't talk to me? She said, he said, if you really want to know about
[0:34:06 - 0:34:14] ▶
that, I have to make an appointment for you down in Los Angeles to see some agents down there.
[0:34:15 - 0:34:20] ▶
Because they're the ones that have to decide whether they can accept you. What was the brochure?
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It was just a trifold brochure that said, military intelligence. And it was blue on the outside.
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And I opened and read it. And that sounded better than being a medic or being a rifleman and
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getting shot or anything. It's so I said, well, let me go talk to them. What this is all about is
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in my book, it says living with guidance and we define guidance, there seems to be something
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moving me through my life that I'm not entirely aware of. It's just like, oh, okay.
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I'm, that looks okay. Now at my age, I say, oh, that's what that was. Anyway, I
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got into military intelligence. Well, what was it? What was military intelligence? No, what was the
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thing? I'm sorry, didn't I? Law was the thing guiding you through life? Oh.
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Oh. God. If you use the word God, what do you use personally? You just use a
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hand's motion. No, I only remember that in my wife's share it back and forth because we know
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where it comes from. It means we are all one. We are all there already. And we have
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of souls there that help us and souls that can split themselves and go help other people.
[0:36:00 - 0:36:09] ▶
And they can be here and still helping you over there. We are the oneness. Okay.
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So I went off to school and my mom has always told me, you're going to be okay, but I don't
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want to go to Vietnam. And you're all going to be okay. And so I go through the school, learn how
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to interview people and be a counterintelligence agent, so forth and so on. And you like that. I say
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so forth and so on just to fill in the blank there. And there's another one, this, that, and the other
[0:36:43 - 0:36:48] ▶
thing. So when it came down and the assignments in the classes where they were graduating people
[0:36:48 - 0:36:57] ▶
in classes out of there trying to make a lot of counterintelligence people. Every other class
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went to Vietnam and then the next class went everywhere else, Europe around the US and so forth
[0:37:05 - 0:37:11] ▶
and so on. But it was, it was something to worry about as you were coming up to graduation. And
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I got sent to another strange place called Alabama. So my first assignment was, isn't this interesting?
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And my mom used to say, somebody's always going to take care of you. Yeah, mom, whatever you say.
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And I went to Alabama and I know six months later Vietnam was over with. And
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that began, what am I going to do now? Well, as a
[0:37:49 - 0:37:54] ▶
corporal or a sergeant by then, I guess every now and then I got the duty of the teletype.
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They didn't have other things besides teletypes at that time. And so they'd call me over the
[0:38:02 - 0:38:08] ▶
headquarters building and say, okay, this is your week on the teletype and learn how to use it and
[0:38:08 - 0:38:12] ▶
everything. Everybody here does that. So we all know how to use it. But what that meant is I got
[0:38:12 - 0:38:18] ▶
invitations to. How would you like to go to language school? How would you like to go to
[0:38:19 - 0:38:24] ▶
technical school and learn how to bug things? How would you like to do this? And I would take the
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ribbon out of the teletype and say, we have a volunteer for that right now. And so that's how I
[0:38:31 - 0:38:38] ▶
created making all of those particular things for me and went to language school and so forth and
[0:38:38 - 0:38:46] ▶
so on. Went down Spence with time in Panama. But let's rewind real quick. Yes. So it sounds
[0:38:46 - 0:38:55] ▶
like your mom had some type of ability as well. Yes. Did your father? Yes, but it was much more
[0:38:55 - 0:39:06] ▶
subtle. My dad was a quiet guy on and he was subtle, but he was tuned in to what was going on.
[0:39:06 - 0:39:14] ▶
He was raised as in the religion where they don't believe about going doctors. I don't remember
[0:39:17 - 0:39:27] ▶
what that name of that is right now. But when he had a broken shoulder bone, his mom tied a red
[0:39:27 - 0:39:36] ▶
ribbon around it and that was supposed to heal it up. And yet he became a dentist, but they didn't
[0:39:36 - 0:39:43] ▶
call that a doctor. I mean, that's a dentist for going to say, let's start a doctor. So he was very
[0:39:43 - 0:39:50] ▶
gentle about things. But he was aware. I was very sensitive with him. And I think part of one of
[0:39:50 - 0:39:59] ▶
those things, as I said, he always encouraged me to try things out. And he let me paint a car in
[0:39:59 - 0:40:07] ▶
the garage. And all I did was hang up sheets all around it. And I painted the car. And he said,
[0:40:07 - 0:40:13] ▶
how did it turn out? And I said, oh, it's pretty good. And painted Uncle's car blue. No, I had a
[0:40:13 - 0:40:20] ▶
40 Chevy and I sprayed it. Taxi yellow and wrote taxi on the side of it. And they didn't like that
[0:40:21 - 0:40:31] ▶
driving around Glendale, California. And finally, the cop came by and he said,
[0:40:31 - 0:40:36] ▶
we want to talk to you about your car and the word taxi on the side. I said, yeah, what's wrong with
[0:40:36 - 0:40:43] ▶
that? And he said, there is no law that says you can't do that. There's no problem with it.
[0:40:43 - 0:40:48] ▶
However, all the people that are in the taxi business can't stand it because they think it
[0:40:49 - 0:40:55] ▶
downgrades their feelings about their own car. And I said, okay, I'm going to have a problem with
[0:40:55 - 0:41:03] ▶
that. So took taxi off the side. And I think I sold the car for $75 to somebody or something.
[0:41:03 - 0:41:09] ▶
Nice. Did you have brothers and sisters? Two older sisters, yes. What about them?
[0:41:09 - 0:41:16] ▶
They were girls. They weren't as tuned in as I was to this whole thing. But they certainly
[0:41:19 - 0:41:29] ▶
understood it. And as we got older, we'd talk about these things. They're both dead and
[0:41:29 - 0:41:37] ▶
we'd talk about these things and them going through their deaths. And I was there with them and
[0:41:38 - 0:41:43] ▶
so forth and so on. And they respected that expression. They respected me down. They knew something
[0:41:43 - 0:41:53] ▶
was different about me. It was four years to one sister and another four years to the other sister.
[0:41:53 - 0:41:59] ▶
So I was the youngest of the family. But as we all grew older as people, there was a different
[0:41:59 - 0:42:07] ▶
arrangement of the kinds of things skip dead and the kinds of things sunny did and the kind of things
[0:42:07 - 0:42:15] ▶
that Sue did and so forth and so on. But yeah, they were different. What was different?
[0:42:15 - 0:42:22] ▶
What was different? They liked chasing boys and, okay,
[0:42:23 - 0:42:27] ▶
ditching school and getting in trouble for it. And did you ever hear any conversations between
[0:42:29 - 0:42:36] ▶
your parents about some of these abilities?
[0:42:36 - 0:42:40] ▶
No. There's a sidebar to that when I got out of OCS and was on my way to go to the Pentagon
[0:42:43 - 0:42:56] ▶
because I told somebody I wanted to do stuff with the remote viewing because I thought it was
[0:42:59 - 0:43:04] ▶
a threat. He said, we'll assign you to the Pentagon and you go find it as a lieutenant. You'll
[0:43:04 - 0:43:12] ▶
be somebody in the Pentagon that's on the night security voice and you have the access to everything
[0:43:12 - 0:43:20] ▶
and make sure people lock doors and don't leave class away documents out and so forth.
[0:43:20 - 0:43:24] ▶
I never actually made it there because somebody intervened. But the story about
[0:43:24 - 0:43:33] ▶
did your parents ever ask you about things? When I told my parents, I was moving out to the east
[0:43:35 - 0:43:45] ▶
and I would be in and around Washington and so forth and so on and the Pentagon and so forth.
[0:43:46 - 0:43:51] ▶
And she said, oh, well, if you're moving out east, you should look up Bob Monroe. And first of all,
[0:43:51 - 0:43:57] ▶
I didn't know what a Bob Monroe was. I had no idea. And so my thinking in my head was,
[0:43:57 - 0:44:05] ▶
do you know what I mean? Millions of people are on the east coast. I don't know somebody named Bob
[0:44:07 - 0:44:12] ▶
Monroe. And what is she talking about anyway? And so I'm nodding to my mom, yeah, sounds like an
[0:44:12 - 0:44:20] ▶
interesting idea. Who was this guy? I didn't know. So I drive out there and just before I left for
[0:44:20 - 0:44:29] ▶
what Duke Arizona, which is where I was teaching at the time, got a call from a bit Fort Mead and
[0:44:29 - 0:44:40] ▶
Inscam had just moved half of their outfit to Fort Mead and the assignments officer called me.
[0:44:41 - 0:44:49] ▶
I said, we're changing your orders of going to the Pentagon. And I'm like, man, this guy arranged
[0:44:49 - 0:44:56] ▶
for me to go to the Pentagon so he could help me find out about remote viewing. And now these
[0:44:56 - 0:45:02] ▶
orders have been changed. And I guess I'll just have to forget about all that stuff,
[0:45:02 - 0:45:10] ▶
got remote viewing and what I wanted to do and help the intelligence community and so forth and so on.
[0:45:10 - 0:45:15] ▶
And so I got reassigned up to Fort Mead and went behind the green doors. They say,
[0:45:15 - 0:45:25] ▶
is real quick, before we get into Fort Mead, how did you find out about remote viewing
[0:45:26 - 0:45:31] ▶
through the Army and thank you, side of Army intelligence. Thank you.
[0:45:32 - 0:45:36] ▶
I was teaching at Fort Wachuk, Arizona and a friend of mine, Rob Kauer, and I found
[0:45:37 - 0:45:47] ▶
put off book, Mindreach, where they published all of their remote viewing studies.
[0:45:48 - 0:45:56] ▶
As much as the CIA would let them publish that. And I got a hold of that book and Rob and I would
[0:45:58 - 0:46:05] ▶
look at it. Look what they say in here about this. Both of us were counterintelligent specialists
[0:46:05 - 0:46:12] ▶
in doing inspections in different countries and so forth and so on. We don't check for this.
[0:46:12 - 0:46:18] ▶
We don't see if anybody is remote viewing our Army units. Ding, something happened. And so I went
[0:46:18 - 0:46:28] ▶
to the colonel down there just before I went to OCS and he said, well, you keep your nose
[0:46:28 - 0:46:34] ▶
pain. You come on back here, side of that. I'll see if I can get you any assignments you want.
[0:46:34 - 0:46:39] ▶
When you come back here as a lieutenant, you'd be ready to tell me what you want to do.
[0:46:41 - 0:46:46] ▶
And so, meanwhile, months ago, Rob Kauer and I were talking about this book from put off and he said
[0:46:47 - 0:46:58] ▶
that we were like, we're counterintelligent specialists and we're not doing anything about this.
[0:46:59 - 0:47:06] ▶
You know, we're not climbing a people's addicts or whatever we do. So when I got back as a lieutenant,
[0:47:06 - 0:47:13] ▶
I went into Colonel's office and he said, well, lieutenant, you're coming to me to tell me
[0:47:15 - 0:47:22] ▶
where you want to get assigned. And I said, well, sir, it's a little bit different than that.
[0:47:22 - 0:47:26] ▶
And he said, well, what's that? And I said, there's a book here by some scientist called mind
[0:47:27 - 0:47:32] ▶
reach out at Stanford Research Institute. And they're studying something called remote viewing.
[0:47:32 - 0:47:39] ▶
And he said, well, what's that? And I said, that's why I'm bringing you this book, sir.
[0:47:39 - 0:47:43] ▶
I think this is very dangerous in a threat to the counterintelligence work we do.
[0:47:44 - 0:47:50] ▶
And he said, well, leave the book with me, lieutenant, and come on back tomorrow.
[0:47:51 - 0:47:55] ▶
And we'll talk about this. Came back tomorrow and he said, lieutenant, I think you're right.
[0:47:55 - 0:48:00] ▶
And that's when he reassigned me to the Pentagon, which I never got to.
[0:48:01 - 0:48:05] ▶
So that's the beginning of it of how I got into remote viewing. Start it back at Fort
[0:48:08 - 0:48:14] ▶
Wachiku with Rob Coward deciding this isn't right. There should be we should be doing something.
[0:48:14 - 0:48:19] ▶
This is our job to watch us. And then things switch back and forth from the idea of
[0:48:19 - 0:48:28] ▶
not getting to the Pentagon. That wasn't the place I should be because arrangements were made.
[0:48:29 - 0:48:34] ▶
And wound up at Fort Mead behind the green door. And I was given
[0:48:35 - 0:48:43] ▶
room behind the green door after I passed all my security clearance as in everything.
[0:48:46 - 0:48:51] ▶
And dug through the safes in the room. And I reached down into this one, picked it up.
[0:48:52 - 0:48:57] ▶
Those are three classified documents on remote viewing.
[0:48:58 - 0:49:02] ▶
Wait a minute. I thought all this remote viewing stuff was done since I didn't go to the Pentagon
[0:49:05 - 0:49:11] ▶
like I was planned that I was going to go do that. What is this stuff anyway? So I read through it.
[0:49:11 - 0:49:16] ▶
And Major Keenan, my boss then, was down the hallway and I came out and said, what is it, lieutenant?
[0:49:17 - 0:49:24] ▶
I was, I wasn't the regularity lieutenant because I'd been in the Army 10 years as a enlisted man.
[0:49:24 - 0:49:30] ▶
So they had a little more respect for me.
[0:49:30 - 0:49:32] ▶
And I took these in. I said, sir, I found these three documents here and they're
[0:49:36 - 0:49:41] ▶
all about remote viewing. And he said, oh, yeah, Lieutenant Colonel Scottsgo was over there.
[0:49:43 - 0:49:49] ▶
And he was very interested in that. General Thompson was the one that was looking after that.
[0:49:49 - 0:49:55] ▶
What was that all about? And General Thompson, in this story, becomes Major General Thompson later.
[0:49:56 - 0:50:04] ▶
And there's a term in the military called getting a grandfather, meaning there's
[0:50:05 - 0:50:13] ▶
somebody who's going to take care of you, make sure you do the right thing. Turns out General
[0:50:13 - 0:50:18] ▶
Thompson was my grandfather because Heenan made your Keenan who I went to with these documents.
[0:50:18 - 0:50:25] ▶
New General Thompson. And he said, I've got a guy in here that knows about this. What's his name?
[0:50:26 - 0:50:33] ▶
Atwater. He said, you let out water do whatever he wants to do. And I didn't know that was happening.
[0:50:33 - 0:50:40] ▶
Interesting. But I knew General Thompson, new,
[0:50:40 - 0:50:45] ▶
green and the CIA. And they'd been working together. And he knew all about this stuff that the
[0:50:45 - 0:50:52] ▶
CIA was doing. So General Thompson had his finger on me through Major Keenan. And he said,
[0:50:52 - 0:51:01] ▶
well, what should we do about this? Well, we should recruit some people to do this.
[0:51:02 - 0:51:05] ▶
And how are you going to do that? Lieutenant, I said, well, I think we ought to interview some
[0:51:06 - 0:51:12] ▶
people that have security clearances so that they can do the kind of work we do at looking
[0:51:12 - 0:51:17] ▶
the counterintelligence problem. That was the beginning before it was called Stargate. That was
[0:51:17 - 0:51:25] ▶
the beginning of doing this and working through this situation to get these people trained.
[0:51:25 - 0:51:33] ▶
Wow. Very interesting. So how did you guys,
[0:51:33 - 0:51:37] ▶
where did you start? And a lot of people have security clearances. There's a lot of people in
[0:51:40 - 0:51:45] ▶
the intelligence world. It sounds, it sounds out there. It is what it is. Yes.
[0:51:45 - 0:51:53] ▶
First, what we decided to do, my south major Keenan got another officer and
[0:51:53 - 0:52:09] ▶
and was going to be my boss because I was just a lieutenant and we needed somebody that was
[0:52:09 - 0:52:14] ▶
a lieutenant colonel to do this. And someone who'd been around in scum so that he could go talk to
[0:52:15 - 0:52:23] ▶
anybody wanted and had lots of clearances and stuff. And so he was going to be my boss and I was
[0:52:23 - 0:52:28] ▶
going to be the remote viewing expert, which I had to invent. But that's okay.
[0:52:28 - 0:52:33] ▶
And we decided that we should survey the people around the greater Washington DC area
[0:52:36 - 0:52:42] ▶
that were in in scum. And we thought, well, they have to be assignable.
[0:52:43 - 0:52:47] ▶
There's a lot of people in the army that I need to do this job now so I can get promoted then.
[0:52:51 - 0:52:56] ▶
And I need to do that job here and we need to do that job there. And they build up a career pattern
[0:52:56 - 0:53:02] ▶
of jobs that they have to work out for motion. We had to find somebody that didn't think that way.
[0:53:02 - 0:53:08] ▶
Looked at a pool of about 200 people around the greater Washington DC area that were army people
[0:53:12 - 0:53:21] ▶
in civilians, male female. And we took newspaper clippings that talked about people who had a
[0:53:21 - 0:53:31] ▶
near death experience and people who had this happen to them and newspaper type reporting of
[0:53:31 - 0:53:38] ▶
Seguek stuff. And we'd take it to him and say, the boss is access to come around and see whether or not
[0:53:39 - 0:53:49] ▶
people would think some of these people could help us in the army some way. If they can do what
[0:53:50 - 0:53:58] ▶
they say, maybe they could help us in the army some way. And we would both ask questions,
[0:53:58 - 0:54:07] ▶
my major and my south at that time just a lieutenant. And we would,
[0:54:07 - 0:54:15] ▶
this one would ask and then this one would ask and we'd see if they would agree. And then we would
[0:54:17 - 0:54:23] ▶
say, well, let's talk to him a little bit further. And then when we finished that process,
[0:54:24 - 0:54:28] ▶
we told SRI what we're doing and they made an arrangement to do a
[0:54:29 - 0:54:37] ▶
exposure of these people. And we were going to pick three people and I tried to use the word
[0:54:40 - 0:54:47] ▶
to train. He said, on and on and on. We don't train people. We evaluate people, but we don't train
[0:54:47 - 0:54:54] ▶
people. Don't use the word train when you talk to Stanford Research Institute. That's what I
[0:54:54 - 0:55:03] ▶
learned is a little lieutenant. And so I said, so for our orientation, we wanted to do three people
[0:55:03 - 0:55:11] ▶
and meanwhile, we recruited these people by the method I told you of showing them the newspapers
[0:55:11 - 0:55:18] ▶
and some of them weren't the right people. And when we told them we had six people selected that
[0:55:18 - 0:55:27] ▶
and it was like six or eight at that time that we brought in. They didn't all stay. They said,
[0:55:32 - 0:55:38] ▶
well, I thought I wanted to do this, but my wife wants to move and I can't do it. So fortunate.
[0:55:38 - 0:55:44] ▶
I put off and TARG heard about it and they said, well, we want to interview them. We don't want
[0:55:45 - 0:55:51] ▶
you to select which ones we want to do the interview with them to see if they're suitable for our
[0:55:51 - 0:55:56] ▶
evaluation. So they came to Fort Mead and we brought all these people in and put off and TARG
[0:55:56 - 0:56:03] ▶
and talked to them about it and liked the people and shook their hands and everything. And then
[0:56:04 - 0:56:12] ▶
we went out to lunch, but off in TARG and Scottie Watt and me went out to lunch and they were
[0:56:13 - 0:56:20] ▶
whispering to each other and whispering to each other and finally put off said, well,
[0:56:22 - 0:56:27] ▶
I don't think we want to take three people. He says, I want those six guys.
[0:56:29 - 0:56:34] ▶
Well, how about the agreement we had on how much money we had to pay you to evaluate the three
[0:56:35 - 0:56:43] ▶
people? He says, we'll do it for the same price. Those people sound good to us and we'll deal with
[0:56:43 - 0:56:51] ▶
them. So they eventually took the six people out there and then later on found the best three of
[0:56:51 - 0:57:00] ▶
those and had the three of them go back again, for example, Joe McMonaco. What are some of the
[0:57:00 - 0:57:07] ▶
what are some of the evaluations that you guys were conducting to find the best candidates?
[0:57:09 - 0:57:15] ▶
Okay. There's SRI situation. Continue with that. What they did is they had people
[0:57:15 - 0:57:23] ▶
someone would drive away from SRI and then someone would sit back at SRI and get interviewed
[0:57:24 - 0:57:34] ▶
and say describe to me where Dr. Prascon and then later they would bring that back and they would
[0:57:35 - 0:57:42] ▶
have this is the true place he was and then there were six, one out of six. And so they scored
[0:57:42 - 0:57:51] ▶
them another person, a judge, would look at what the remote view or tried. I can't make 10 into
[0:57:51 - 0:57:59] ▶
six. Can I? And he would score them. No, it's not that one. This wasn't a racetrack.
[0:57:59 - 0:58:10] ▶
It might be that one. That's kind of a museum like thing. So they would rate these things.
[0:58:12 - 0:58:17] ▶
They got 80% correct matches, for example, on the six altogether, meaning that the judge who
[0:58:22 - 0:58:36] ▶
didn't know where they'd gone or what was the actual thing about. And that is how we scored and
[0:58:36 - 0:58:43] ▶
decided who we were going to choose and chose the ones that had the best to start out.
[0:58:44 - 0:58:52] ▶
Were any of these six people surprised that they were chosen? Were they, I mean, how do I describe
[0:58:55 - 0:59:05] ▶
was anybody surprised at the program that they and surprised in the reasons you were evaluating them for?
[0:59:06 - 0:59:15] ▶
No, they already signed up for the program when they came in and they signed secret certificates.
[0:59:16 - 0:59:25] ▶
Don't tell anybody about this. Your boss doesn't know what you're doing, but he knows that the boss
[0:59:25 - 0:59:31] ▶
tells him he has to go to work me today to do something and he's doing it for me. So
[0:59:32 - 0:59:39] ▶
they were on board with the program and they heard about going out to SRI. We had those
[0:59:41 - 0:59:48] ▶
classified documents, for example, and they looked at those and they were interested in going out
[0:59:48 - 0:59:55] ▶
there and doing that. What was in the classified documents?
[0:59:55 - 0:59:59] ▶
There were a couple of them on Project Scanay. They were things that had been done before,
[1:00:03 - 1:00:11] ▶
things that the Soviets were doing and was the first beginning published evidence that
[1:00:11 - 1:00:19] ▶
not the stuff that the CIA knew, but it was the beginning of Department of Defense stuff that
[1:00:20 - 1:00:26] ▶
was published that they had been looking at lots of people around the world that are doing this thing
[1:00:26 - 1:00:32] ▶
and why aren't we doing this? Do you know how we found out other other intelligence agencies
[1:00:33 - 1:00:40] ▶
and countries were doing this? Spies. Who was the first one?
[1:00:41 - 1:00:49] ▶
Adoptus. I don't know the answer to that. I don't know the answer to that and I probably
[1:00:50 - 1:00:58] ▶
would have to say I can either confirm nor deny if I knew. I'm the lieutenant to discover
[1:00:58 - 1:01:07] ▶
the scuff and the safe, went and talked to Dale Graff and so forth and so on.
[1:01:07 - 1:01:15] ▶
What were they? Can you tell me what they were remote viewing inside the US?
[1:01:16 - 1:01:20] ▶
I don't know that. Okay, but it grew into something else. I mean, Joe's gone over there and
[1:01:22 - 1:01:30] ▶
been with the Russians and talked to them and played with them and they played with him and so forth.
[1:01:30 - 1:01:35] ▶
Yeah. Okay, so six guys, six people, you guys took in. What happens then?
[1:01:36 - 1:01:47] ▶
Well, after they finished this evaluation, we had started working at Fort Mead with doing
[1:01:47 - 1:01:57] ▶
little outbounder things and practicing and so forth and so on of what was going on.
[1:01:57 - 1:02:02] ▶
So Scotty Watt would drive out in a car to someplace and then I'd sit over in the operations building
[1:02:02 - 1:02:10] ▶
and interview them about, describe where Scotty is now and they would sometimes get hits and
[1:02:10 - 1:02:17] ▶
sometimes not get hits, which was good for Scotty because when they'd get a hit, he would say,
[1:02:17 - 1:02:23] ▶
I wasn't so sure this stuff worked, but I was the one that went out there and they'd describe
[1:02:25 - 1:02:30] ▶
the tower I was on and the such and so it was fun for him. I'll bet that would be a very unique experience.
[1:02:30 - 1:02:40] ▶
So I just wanted to tell you, we were working with the people and they
[1:02:42 - 1:02:49] ▶
some of them came and lived in our offices there at Fort Mead and others would come from some place
[1:02:50 - 1:02:56] ▶
and we'd make an appointment for them to come. One of those was Joe McBonigal. He was working
[1:02:56 - 1:03:02] ▶
down in Washington area and we'd say, can you come up on Tuesday and Friday?
[1:03:04 - 1:03:10] ▶
And so he would say, well, if you arrange for my boss to tell me where I have to be,
[1:03:11 - 1:03:16] ▶
and so he was part of that same thing, testing it out for himself and us testing how to run this thing.
[1:03:17 - 1:03:25] ▶
So I would say, come and three others, SRI wanted them back and they had some things that they
[1:03:27 - 1:03:35] ▶
wanted to try out. Can you read with a remote viewing? How about if this happens or how about
[1:03:35 - 1:03:42] ▶
if that happens? What about if it's underwater? Would underwater stop it and none of those things
[1:03:42 - 1:03:50] ▶
mattered interesting and distance and everything? One of the interesting things that happened as time
[1:03:50 - 1:04:03] ▶
passed, that price was remote viewing for them at SRI and he had one target that he talked about,
[1:04:04 - 1:04:16] ▶
which was water tanks and there's tall tanks and there's two water pools down here and it's a
[1:04:16 - 1:04:25] ▶
sewage processing plant. And so when they went down to look at the sewage processing plant,
[1:04:30 - 1:04:41] ▶
hopefully so the remote viewer could learn things he missed. Well, how come you can talk about the
[1:04:41 - 1:04:44] ▶
red building or whatever turns out that it was a swimming pool. And it was like, well, you did get
[1:04:44 - 1:04:55] ▶
the water and there was these big towers of the sewage processing plant so forth. No space and no time.
[1:04:55 - 1:05:05] ▶
75 years later, long after Pat Price himself died, the Menlo Park local government
[1:05:06 - 1:05:18] ▶
published a book of all the things that had been going on for years and years and years. And
[1:05:19 - 1:05:25] ▶
Russell Tarr got a hold of one and unopened it up and he was like
[1:05:27 - 1:05:30] ▶
75 years ago, that coordinate was not a swimming pool, but a sewage processing plant.
[1:05:30 - 1:05:41] ▶
Wow. And there was the pictures of the towers and everything. And so they started thinking about
[1:05:41 - 1:05:48] ▶
this differently. First, there was like, oh, that remote viewing was 20 blocks away. That remote
[1:05:48 - 1:05:56] ▶
viewing was when you went on vacation. That remote viewing was 3,000 miles away. And then this thing came
[1:05:56 - 1:06:03] ▶
up and it was remote viewing is outside of time. Pat Price never knew because he died. 75
[1:06:03 - 1:06:19] ▶
that that was a sewage treatment plant. Wow. So it was an awakening to the scientists to say,
[1:06:20 - 1:06:30] ▶
there's something more here that's going on than what we think we're doing at SRI.
[1:06:31 - 1:06:35] ▶
Very, very interesting. I mean, what is time then? What is it?
[1:06:37 - 1:06:44] ▶
It doesn't exist. It's a thing out of your mouth. Then what is it?
[1:06:44 - 1:06:51] ▶
It's a thing that we have invented to organize our lives on earth.
[1:06:55 - 1:07:01] ▶
You know, my cat doesn't know time and the birds don't know time except when the weather changes
[1:07:03 - 1:07:08] ▶
there's a fly south and so forth and so on. But they don't think of time. And if I knew more about
[1:07:08 - 1:07:16] ▶
the history of cultures, different societies over time that have come up over the hundreds
[1:07:16 - 1:07:26] ▶
and thousands of years, they probably have lots of differences. I imagine weather and when you plant
[1:07:26 - 1:07:35] ▶
things and when you harvest things is a much more crude kind of interface with that. And not so
[1:07:35 - 1:07:43] ▶
concerned about, let's see, it's about. So that's a really good question. What is time?
[1:07:43 - 1:07:51] ▶
And my answer is, well, it depends who is keeping track of something and decides to say,
[1:07:52 - 1:08:00] ▶
you know, that's spaced out this way. The seasons of the year, except if you live at the
[1:08:01 - 1:08:07] ▶
north pool in the south pool, they're pretty much always the same season. But I, sounds like humans
[1:08:07 - 1:08:16] ▶
are the ones that are more concerned about time. Okay. Let's talk about some of your career and
[1:08:16 - 1:08:27] ▶
remote viewing. Right. Remember that I am not a remote viewer.
[1:08:27 - 1:08:33] ▶
I was the guy who taught other people how to do this thing called remote viewing and used my
[1:08:39 - 1:08:48] ▶
education in psychology to understand how people behave and how to reward them and encourage them
[1:08:48 - 1:08:54] ▶
and so forth. But I am not by the definition of what a remote viewer is. I'm not a remote viewer.
[1:08:54 - 1:09:04] ▶
But you do have abilities. Yes. But I don't generally, and I wouldn't say those remote
[1:09:05 - 1:09:13] ▶
view, my abilities are remote viewing. And I generally try to stay away from that topic because I
[1:09:13 - 1:09:22] ▶
want to present myself. This is the way it was done. This is the way it was monitored. This is
[1:09:22 - 1:09:29] ▶
the way that it was validated, given to the Pentagon, these answers. And this much was right that
[1:09:29 - 1:09:37] ▶
they told us about. I like playing that role. Okay. As opposed to I do remote viewing too.
[1:09:37 - 1:09:46] ▶
I'm interested in understandable as well. How was Joe when you met him?
[1:09:46 - 1:09:54] ▶
Joe was kind of a complainer about I can never get this right and they're not promoting me
[1:09:57 - 1:10:04] ▶
and fast enough and they should do this and they should do that. And that was bitching was his
[1:10:04 - 1:10:09] ▶
forte. Had a marriage that was breaking up.
[1:10:10 - 1:10:19] ▶
Boy could he remote view. So I loved Joe. I mean, I really loved that. He made the day. He would
[1:10:23 - 1:10:34] ▶
tell me things and I'd be sitting in the world. Did he know that? I mean,
[1:10:34 - 1:10:38] ▶
all I did was from Major Watercross the Way. He said, okay, well, here's what we're going to start
[1:10:40 - 1:10:48] ▶
on today. So one of the things we did was not always, but one of the things we did is I wouldn't
[1:10:48 - 1:10:56] ▶
know what the target was and it might be an apple over. It might be a coordinate or whatever.
[1:10:56 - 1:11:01] ▶
And I would take it over to Joe. So I don't know most of the time. I don't know and
[1:11:01 - 1:11:08] ▶
Joe didn't know either. And then I would take it back after doing one short session. Joe would say,
[1:11:10 - 1:11:16] ▶
well, this is a cold area and there's this is really cold. There's snow on the ground and it's
[1:11:16 - 1:11:24] ▶
northern somewhere. But it's an industrial area. There are smoke stacks there and there are
[1:11:24 - 1:11:32] ▶
many buildings and so forth and so on. So I'd stop. That would be the end of the session. I'm
[1:11:32 - 1:11:38] ▶
ahead and sketch some stuff and I'd go over to Scotty Watten. I'd say, sir, this is what we got
[1:11:38 - 1:11:45] ▶
today. And he'd open it up and he'd say, schedule your second session because he could tell me
[1:11:45 - 1:11:51] ▶
you're on track. There's something to go on here.
[1:11:52 - 1:11:54] ▶
So it's an interesting situation. I have to diverge a little bit. People were talking,
[1:11:59 - 1:12:05] ▶
oh, it's coordinate you use. Oh, it's a picture you use. Oh, well, let me say you can't use
[1:12:05 - 1:12:11] ▶
coordinate anymore. You have to scramble the numbers and make up a number and say that's the
[1:12:11 - 1:12:15] ▶
number. Still works. And how about this and how about that? What I really think right now, maybe
[1:12:15 - 1:12:23] ▶
tomorrow will be something else, but there was a trust between Joe and I when he and I were in
[1:12:23 - 1:12:31] ▶
that room, I didn't fool around with him. He knew that I knew the questions that the Pentagon
[1:12:31 - 1:12:40] ▶
needed to know. So there, I'd say, Joe, do you want to hold the envelope? Joe, do you want to hear
[1:12:40 - 1:12:49] ▶
the coordinates? No, because over the years, there was a trust buildup. I'm in that room with him
[1:12:49 - 1:12:57] ▶
to do one thing. And that's answer some questions from the Pentagon. What kind of questions were
[1:12:57 - 1:13:03] ▶
the Pentagon was the Pentagon interested in? Oh, lots of different things. Can you tell us,
[1:13:03 - 1:13:11] ▶
we've watched in Europe as the Soviets are moving their tanks forward, like they're going to go
[1:13:13 - 1:13:21] ▶
past the folder gap and so forth and so on. Can you ask where this is right now? And Joe would be
[1:13:21 - 1:13:30] ▶
able to say, well, yes, I see them moving, but they're all parking garages. And so they would
[1:13:30 - 1:13:36] ▶
fly another satellite over. Yeah, they're all parking garages. I don't think we have a
[1:13:36 - 1:13:40] ▶
thing to worry about. There were many, many things that the Pentagon wanted to know. Somebody would
[1:13:40 - 1:13:47] ▶
have a particular problem that they're trying to resolve. And is it this? Is it that? I mean,
[1:13:47 - 1:13:55] ▶
you saw some of those things in a third eye video about things that they were asked and
[1:13:55 - 1:14:04] ▶
are satellites that would go over every now and then. And then they said, we never knew that was
[1:14:05 - 1:14:10] ▶
there. Well, remote view were told it was kind of a thing. So
[1:14:10 - 1:14:14] ▶
that grew too. There was because of Scotty Watts, Scotty Watts knew a lot of people and he could
[1:14:14 - 1:14:25] ▶
go to the Pentagon and go out to lunch with a guy and play golf with a guy and everything. And
[1:14:25 - 1:14:30] ▶
got to know that, you know, you could tell Scotty something that you needed to know and he would
[1:14:31 - 1:14:37] ▶
bring home the envelope, hand it to me and I'd do sessions with people and then we'd send a
[1:14:37 - 1:14:42] ▶
back to him. So that built up for a while. Let's take a quick break and when we come back,
[1:14:42 - 1:14:57] ▶
we'll get into project 8200. Okay, that's great. Perfect.
[1:14:57 - 1:15:01] ▶
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[1:15:04 - 1:15:10] ▶
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All right, Skip. We're back from the break and right before we left, we're getting ready to get
[1:16:04 - 1:16:24] ▶
into project 8200. But you had mentioned an important point that you wanted to bring up
[1:16:24 - 1:16:30] ▶
about how the remote viewer knows what to focus on. It sounded like in the middle of their
[1:16:31 - 1:16:39] ▶
journey or experience. What do you call it? Yes. Is it an experience? I think it's the only
[1:16:40 - 1:16:48] ▶
words we can use for it in our mind, in our vocabularity, I think it's probably an experience. I
[1:16:48 - 1:16:58] ▶
don't think intellectually they think they're going anywhere. They know they're sitting in the room
[1:16:58 - 1:17:02] ▶
with me. But they're having an experience in some way. Okay. Now they sometimes may describe,
[1:17:02 - 1:17:11] ▶
well I'm going to go over there now and I'm going to look at that. But we shouldn't take that too
[1:17:11 - 1:17:16] ▶
strongly. They're still sitting there next to you. Okay.
[1:17:16 - 1:17:18] ▶
Did you see that video about three-eye spies or whatever that was, third-eye spies?
[1:17:18 - 1:17:33] ▶
I did not. Okay. So that's perfectly okay, but it has to do with the way I would tell a story,
[1:17:33 - 1:17:39] ▶
because otherwise I would say these things and you would say, oh yeah, but you're not going to do
[1:17:39 - 1:17:44] ▶
that. Okay. Excellent. So I was, what I discovered recently, something that I haven't had not given
[1:17:44 - 1:18:00] ▶
a great deal of thought about it. And I've been in this business a long time and I was like, whoa,
[1:18:00 - 1:18:07] ▶
this means something. Regardless of what happened, this means something. So the background to this is
[1:18:08 - 1:18:17] ▶
that in the days of put off in charge at Stanford Research Institute, the obviously had a contract
[1:18:17 - 1:18:25] ▶
with CIA and kick green was the guy in CIA who was kind of watching them and was in charge of
[1:18:25 - 1:18:34] ▶
what they did. And then he would take the results that they would get in there evaluating and testing
[1:18:34 - 1:18:42] ▶
and studying under protocol this idea of remote viewing. And he would take and show some of the
[1:18:42 - 1:18:51] ▶
results to his people at the CIA. And they started to think both kick green and other people at CIA
[1:18:51 - 1:19:00] ▶
would was starting to think, how do we know that they're sticking with protocol and how do we know
[1:19:00 - 1:19:11] ▶
that they don't have some other access to the targets that their remote viewers are getting?
[1:19:13 - 1:19:20] ▶
So he decided he was him, kick green was going to come up with something that would prove to the other
[1:19:21 - 1:19:33] ▶
people that were questioning him. You know, this stuff is garbage. I doesn't work. It doesn't make
[1:19:33 - 1:19:39] ▶
any sense to us. He keeps telling him about it and everything. So he decided what he was going to
[1:19:39 - 1:19:45] ▶
do is he was going to go to another friend of his in the CIA and go to him and say, I want you to
[1:19:45 - 1:19:55] ▶
give me a set of coordinates, geographic coordinates that I have no knowledge of it. I don't
[1:19:55 - 1:20:03] ▶
nothing about it. I don't know what it is. And he said, okay. And he gave him the coordinates. And
[1:20:03 - 1:20:11] ▶
he said, so I don't know what this is. That means nothing to me. I don't recognize it as being
[1:20:11 - 1:20:18] ▶
the I feel tower or anything. And he says, that's right. You won't know what this is. So he passes that
[1:20:18 - 1:20:26] ▶
out to SRI. And SRI comes back with this. It's a very elaborate description of this place. He says it's
[1:20:26 - 1:20:37] ▶
very secret and guards and fences around it. And I went inside and I looked through safes. And on
[1:20:37 - 1:20:49] ▶
the wall, this was written and opened up the safes and read what the words and names of the files were
[1:20:49 - 1:20:59] ▶
and end of session. And so when he gets that back from SRI, he takes it over to his friend,
[1:21:00 - 1:21:14] ▶
whose name, by the way, was Dave in the CIA at that time. And he started laughing. He says, this
[1:21:14 - 1:21:21] ▶
nonsense that you're doing, kid, is just it's just nonsense. It's ridiculous. And he said, well,
[1:21:21 - 1:21:27] ▶
what do you mean? He said, I built a cabin last year and fixed it. And I gave you the coordinates to
[1:21:27 - 1:21:33] ▶
the cabin. And he went to his other friends and said, this is what SRI told me. And they're all like,
[1:21:33 - 1:21:43] ▶
you got to be kidding. And he says, no, this is this is he says, that's a real place. And nobody knows
[1:21:44 - 1:21:54] ▶
about it. So he got in his car and he drove physically to the coordinates up in the mountains,
[1:21:54 - 1:22:05] ▶
found this guy's cabin. And said, what is going on here? This makes no sense at all. And he turned
[1:22:06 - 1:22:15] ▶
around and went down a hundred yards down the road. And there was a well cut, well groomed
[1:22:15 - 1:22:25] ▶
road. And he turned up there and came over a ridge. And there was sugar grow. It was in the late 60s
[1:22:25 - 1:22:34] ▶
and 70s. The Navy's installation for monitoring Soviet satellites. Interesting. Which actually
[1:22:34 - 1:22:46] ▶
physically doesn't exist anymore. Never mind. That wasn't over there. But we have pictures of it. And
[1:22:46 - 1:22:53] ▶
you can look up sugar, draw a bomb on it. So I need to try to add here. When he went in, he said,
[1:22:53 - 1:23:01] ▶
everything had to do with the names on things and the files and so forth had to do with
[1:23:02 - 1:23:10] ▶
playing pool. It was a cue ball, a nine ball, an eight ball, and this and different kinds of shots
[1:23:12 - 1:23:17] ▶
and everything. And when he showed that to his other CIA friends, all those are top secret,
[1:23:17 - 1:23:28] ▶
classified, limb dis names. Those are real names of a real project of sugar growth. And it was like
[1:23:28 - 1:23:43] ▶
how did that happen? Well, because he had given, this was a twist up a little bit, but I'll get
[1:23:45 - 1:23:53] ▶
back to straight. He had given that to SRI and it was expecting that either hella hamad or
[1:23:53 - 1:24:00] ▶
Ingoswan would do the job and they were going to look at it with one person and so forth and so on.
[1:24:02 - 1:24:08] ▶
Turns out the Pat Price was hanging around. He said, you guys got something going on here? Here,
[1:24:10 - 1:24:15] ▶
I'll help. And he was that kind of a guy, you know. And it was Pat Price's work that wound up at
[1:24:15 - 1:24:24] ▶
Sugar Grove and read those names that were top secret password names for everything that that
[1:24:24 - 1:24:33] ▶
Navy installation did. And they immediately showed up in Cook Green's office, angry and mad.
[1:24:33 - 1:24:41] ▶
And what did you do? And we're going to have to investigate this. As some of this is a leak in your
[1:24:41 - 1:24:46] ▶
department here and this and that and the other thing. And he said, SRI did it on California. And then
[1:24:46 - 1:24:54] ▶
as sort of a joke and an enthusiasm when
[1:24:58 - 1:25:02] ▶
and put off describes this thing going on. He says, I turned remembered exactly what he says. Every
[1:25:02 - 1:25:13] ▶
law enforcement person in California showed up. That's all right. Because they were really angry about
[1:25:13 - 1:25:22] ▶
all this information leaking out. Well, the point of this whole thing is all that stuff happened.
[1:25:22 - 1:25:29] ▶
It's very well documented. And what is it that when
[1:25:29 - 1:25:35] ▶
here was the target assigned by the coordinate? And over here was Sugar Grove. When he got sent here,
[1:25:36 - 1:25:48] ▶
supposedly, here's your coordinates, describe what's there. And you know, put off in
[1:25:48 - 1:25:55] ▶
target trying to do their best and get good protocols and everything. And it's a boring, I'm going to
[1:25:55 - 1:26:03] ▶
make up some words because I don't know what to say. It's boring. But they say, I wonder what the
[1:26:03 - 1:26:09] ▶
hell that is over there. And so Pat Price goes over here and finds Sugar Grove. So I started
[1:26:09 - 1:26:18] ▶
thinking about this situation in remote viewing in everywhere, every when.
[1:26:18 - 1:26:24] ▶
How do you know that that is a thing of interest? What is it that attracts you to that?
[1:26:27 - 1:26:33] ▶
As opposed to following the rules. I want you to describe that cabin in the forest.
[1:26:34 - 1:26:40] ▶
That's what your job is. Here are your coordinates. And yet,
[1:26:40 - 1:26:45] ▶
he goes to Sugar Grove. He pretty much cares about Jesus. And the Navy at that point in time.
[1:26:45 - 1:26:54] ▶
So I started thinking about that in terms of all the remote viewing I've done in many others.
[1:26:55 - 1:27:01] ▶
If the theory of quantum nonlocality is true, that there is no time and there is no space,
[1:27:01 - 1:27:16] ▶
what is that next? I'm using this skull of mine, which makes no sense, but it's a good graphic.
[1:27:17 - 1:27:23] ▶
One is the next twist to that that gets the remote viewer to describe that interesting thing.
[1:27:24 - 1:27:33] ▶
And how many times has that happened in the hundreds of thousands of remote
[1:27:37 - 1:27:42] ▶
viewings that are going on in the world? And somebody says, well, that doesn't make sense. We ask you
[1:27:42 - 1:27:48] ▶
to do such and such. And you did so and so. Did they give any thought to? Why in the heck did he do so
[1:27:48 - 1:27:56] ▶
and so? He usually does really good work. Why did he describe that? I'm still chewing on that.
[1:27:56 - 1:28:04] ▶
This is less than a month in my head in about this particular interesting thing.
[1:28:04 - 1:28:12] ▶
How does that happen?
[1:28:13 - 1:28:16] ▶
When you wanted to go over to project, 8200, how did Pat Price go and look at those things?
[1:28:21 - 1:28:31] ▶
Nobody told him to go look at that. He just was that kind of a guy that was attracted to go look
[1:28:31 - 1:28:37] ▶
at those things. He says when you talk to him, we use a policeman down in Burbank. He said,
[1:28:37 - 1:28:44] ▶
oh, you know, the detectors would come in and they would say this and everything. And he said,
[1:28:44 - 1:28:49] ▶
I'd kind of roll my head back. And say, well, you know, you're really ought to check out this.
[1:28:50 - 1:28:57] ▶
You didn't tell me you guys checked on that. He said, okay. And he said, he'd be unusually right about
[1:28:58 - 1:29:05] ▶
those every now and then. And so he kept headed in that direction.
[1:29:05 - 1:29:11] ▶
This project 8200 thing was something that I did because Pat Price walked into SRI and his normal
[1:29:15 - 1:29:26] ▶
working there in the early 70s, having come up from originally down in Burbank. He then lived
[1:29:26 - 1:29:37] ▶
in Northern California. But he would come down to do sessions because put off an targ, check them out.
[1:29:37 - 1:29:45] ▶
And so he would go in and he would do things, but they had to control him because he was a
[1:29:46 - 1:29:52] ▶
googarius wild cat. He was just uncontrollable in terms of what he would do.
[1:29:52 - 1:30:01] ▶
And he came in and put off his test because he said, you might be interested in this.
[1:30:03 - 1:30:12] ▶
I've been interested in this for a while and I've found four U of O bases around the globe.
[1:30:13 - 1:30:20] ▶
And so you really ought to look at it and for UFO bases.
[1:30:20 - 1:30:25] ▶
Yes. And this just came in just completely random one day. This
[1:30:25 - 1:30:29] ▶
bad comes in and here it is for UFO bases around the world. Where were they?
[1:30:30 - 1:30:38] ▶
Or where are they? Yes. They're still there. This all happened 50 years ago.
[1:30:39 - 1:30:44] ▶
A little bit more than that now. Mountain Inyan Gani, which is a country in Africa,
[1:30:45 - 1:30:54] ▶
isolated country. Mount Hayes is up in Australia. Mount Perdido is on the border of Spain and France.
[1:30:54 - 1:31:04] ▶
And then there's one in Australia, which I can't quite remember the name of that up in Australia.
[1:31:05 - 1:31:12] ▶
Zeal I think might be the one down in Australia.
[1:31:15 - 1:31:18] ▶
So this was an interesting problem for put off to deal with. He says, yeah, actually,
[1:31:19 - 1:31:27] ▶
we're watching Pat in our program here and testing and evaluating our program here at SRI.
[1:31:28 - 1:31:38] ▶
These look interesting. What is it about this that pulls me to it?
[1:31:38 - 1:31:44] ▶
So it turns out that he calls up a friend of his called Ken Cress and says,
[1:31:46 - 1:31:55] ▶
I'm sorry, kick green and cost kick green and they're friends from a long time ago when they were
[1:31:56 - 1:32:03] ▶
junior officers. Now, he's kick green is in the CIA. He went that way and put off one into
[1:32:04 - 1:32:13] ▶
being a research scientist, but they're really good friends. So he calls up
[1:32:17 - 1:32:22] ▶
Kitten says, could you do me a favor and then what's that? Well, I was wondering how things are
[1:32:23 - 1:32:32] ▶
going down in Australia. Do you know who the case officer is down in Australia?
[1:32:32 - 1:32:36] ▶
There's a station chief wherever you call him. And he says, oh, yeah, he said, well, I'm just
[1:32:36 - 1:32:44] ▶
kind of interested in what things are like in Australia now. I'd like to maybe go down there
[1:32:44 - 1:32:52] ▶
someday. And so he says, well, let me give him a call. And so a couple days later, he calls back
[1:32:52 - 1:32:58] ▶
and said, yeah, I talked to the station chief down there and he said, they really like it. They
[1:32:58 - 1:33:04] ▶
get along with the Australians just fine. They share things and work together on things.
[1:33:04 - 1:33:11] ▶
And I really like it here too. I hope I don't get reassigned around. Well, there is one thing.
[1:33:12 - 1:33:18] ▶
It's all those UFOs up north and put off his like, oh, well, that's kind of an interesting thing.
[1:33:18 - 1:33:25] ▶
But otherwise, you really like it down there and you go down that and put off what you're going
[1:33:25 - 1:33:29] ▶
to say anything. He says, you know, we have to get together next time you're back in the
[1:33:29 - 1:33:33] ▶
station. We'll go out and have a beer again. Remember how in a good time we had when we were
[1:33:33 - 1:33:37] ▶
young officers together, they said, yeah, let's do that. Let's get together again. And so then
[1:33:38 - 1:33:43] ▶
put off had had those on his desk and told
[1:33:49 - 1:33:52] ▶
hat, don't ever do this again. Go get working. You not to do things alone. You have to follow
[1:33:55 - 1:34:02] ▶
protocol. We're being paid by an outside agency. And we have to follow our protocol.
[1:34:02 - 1:34:09] ▶
Else we'll get fired. So you need to not ever do this again. Only do the things that
[1:34:10 - 1:34:16] ▶
Targ is working with you in the interview room next door. You do what things we're telling you to do.
[1:34:18 - 1:34:24] ▶
So that we're in control and we can tell the CIA what we're doing. You know, that's a that's a
[1:34:24 - 1:34:31] ▶
very interesting demand considering it's all done in your brain. That's that's telling you.
[1:34:31 - 1:34:39] ▶
I mean essentially the same thing is telling you don't think about these things. I'm your boss.
[1:34:39 - 1:34:44] ▶
I tell you what to think and how to think. Right. How did Pat respond to that? Well,
[1:34:44 - 1:34:50] ▶
I don't think I know the answer to that question. Okay. But he shrugged his shoulders and I'm sure
[1:34:53 - 1:35:00] ▶
because of the maverick that he was. He didn't much care about what he said and probably
[1:35:00 - 1:35:06] ▶
motivated him to do more. Right. Who knows? My kind of guy. So anyway,
[1:35:06 - 1:35:14] ▶
put off keeps him in keeps him in the drawer and then he waits because this is a big
[1:35:14 - 1:35:21] ▶
hullabaloo and people whispering to other people in the office and all that. And so he waits and he
[1:35:21 - 1:35:28] ▶
waits. Anyways, meanwhile, put off an iron becoming good friends. He, you know, I would go out
[1:35:28 - 1:35:37] ▶
there and check on the training and check on this and everything and they'd always take me out to
[1:35:37 - 1:35:41] ▶
dinner and do this and do this and find I said, you don't have to do this. I'm with you guys.
[1:35:41 - 1:35:47] ▶
I know I sign your checks now. That's what I'm doing for a while because my boss left and now I'm
[1:35:48 - 1:35:53] ▶
the boss of you would forget what you call that when you're the person case control officer.
[1:35:54 - 1:36:02] ▶
I don't know. Anyways, so we became more friends after a while and could visit and talk about things
[1:36:02 - 1:36:08] ▶
without him doing his job of taking care of the guy that came from Washington and making sure
[1:36:09 - 1:36:15] ▶
we take care of that guy because he's a guy of Bayes of Sea. Don't do that.
[1:36:15 - 1:36:20] ▶
And time passed and he called me. I have a different program that I run back at Fort Mead,
[1:36:22 - 1:36:33] ▶
which I think I've explained in some of the papers I said is if you're not doing something
[1:36:33 - 1:36:39] ▶
because you're at war or having something you have to do, you're practicing on that year.
[1:36:40 - 1:36:47] ▶
Doing mock things that keep you in good training. You don't just lay around the ground,
[1:36:48 - 1:36:55] ▶
you do PT and you do all the sorts of things. So I had what I called a challenge program that I did
[1:36:55 - 1:37:01] ▶
when I had remote viewers that, you know, weren't too busy and they didn't have something to do.
[1:37:01 - 1:37:07] ▶
I would come up with challenge targets like send them to a very confusing museum that went
[1:37:07 - 1:37:14] ▶
around the circle like that and see if they could figure that out because you'd be looking at
[1:37:14 - 1:37:21] ▶
this direction and then you turn around and look that direction and it would pass, you know,
[1:37:21 - 1:37:26] ▶
50 years in time because you're supposed to walk through the museum and look at the things.
[1:37:26 - 1:37:30] ▶
So those were challenge type targets that I did several different kinds. So I took
[1:37:31 - 1:37:37] ▶
put off, gave me all of Pat Price's transcripts on the things. He said, do you think you could use
[1:37:42 - 1:37:52] ▶
this in a challenge target training? I didn't need the Pentagon to tell me to do it. I was the
[1:37:52 - 1:38:02] ▶
operations and training officer and that's what I did, operations and training. On the training
[1:38:02 - 1:38:07] ▶
side, it was challenge targets. So I worked up a set of plans for taking the transcript
[1:38:07 - 1:38:24] ▶
and creating the names of the mountains where these UFO bases were, underground UFO bases were
[1:38:24 - 1:38:34] ▶
and then did a series of challenge targets. Four of them with Joe who does a ERV thing,
[1:38:35 - 1:38:46] ▶
just he just lays down in talks. The other people trained by Ingo Suan and they have this
[1:38:46 - 1:38:53] ▶
very complicated structure to do their remote viewing. And so I had six of those, I think maybe five.
[1:38:53 - 1:39:02] ▶
And then we have a couple people who kind of did their own thing. And this was 10 years after,
[1:39:02 - 1:39:09] ▶
that's why I call it project 8200 because it was 1973 when Pat Price did this and then put off
[1:39:09 - 1:39:17] ▶
gave me the material here after in his opinion things quieted down out there and people weren't
[1:39:17 - 1:39:23] ▶
talking about this anymore. So he handed me these and see if I would run challenge targets on them.
[1:39:23 - 1:39:29] ▶
And so the project 8200 is those challenge targets of asking
[1:39:30 - 1:39:37] ▶
stargate removers giving them coordinates to go to and having to describe what's there.
[1:39:38 - 1:39:45] ▶
What did he and so these bases were they part of the challenge targets?
[1:39:48 - 1:39:54] ▶
That I gave them the coordinates that Price had said this is where I was looking. So I
[1:39:54 - 1:40:02] ▶
took those coordinates and I told them to go look at these different coordinates and see what they
[1:40:02 - 1:40:07] ▶
found there. The stargate removers. So before we get into what they saw, what did Pat see at these
[1:40:07 - 1:40:19] ▶
bases? He described them as inside areas where four different kinds of groups of people who had
[1:40:19 - 1:40:26] ▶
different duties had inside places that they were inside these mountains. What do you mean four
[1:40:26 - 1:40:35] ▶
different types of people? Races, genders, what are we talking here? Just different projects that
[1:40:35 - 1:40:43] ▶
they're on? Yeah, these four bases had different stories. I can read them to you if they were.
[1:40:43 - 1:40:49] ▶
They had different jobs that they did in four different bases. And so he would talk about,
[1:40:49 - 1:40:59] ▶
well, I'm going to go over to Mount Ingen, Ghani, now. And I'm going to look at Mount Hayes. And so
[1:40:59 - 1:41:05] ▶
his, this is another thing that we talked about before. He just would go to this place as well.
[1:41:05 - 1:41:13] ▶
This is very interesting over here in Mount Perdita, but I think I'll go back up to Hayes and
[1:41:14 - 1:41:18] ▶
then his thing would change. And we had to go through the transcript very carefully.
[1:41:18 - 1:41:22] ▶
Where is he supposed to be talking about now? And then going back to the discussion we had
[1:41:23 - 1:41:28] ▶
a minute ago. How did he know which one to go to? And it might be more interesting. And so
[1:41:28 - 1:41:37] ▶
forth. And that's just in the back of my mind now. So I'll just speak silly the way I talk one
[1:41:37 - 1:41:43] ▶
way one time and say then in the back of my mind, which I know it's not in there. Anyway, so
[1:41:43 - 1:41:48] ▶
the main thing that there was some interest in when some people would read this and say,
[1:41:48 - 1:42:03] ▶
oh my goodness, they're terrible. They're invading us. They can do this and they can monitor what
[1:42:03 - 1:42:08] ▶
our radio things are. And they do this. And the single thing that seemed joking up with this is
[1:42:08 - 1:42:25] ▶
first he was worried about this whole thing in terms of him being a military man and
[1:42:25 - 1:42:31] ▶
wondering about what's all this going on here. But by the time he got through with going through
[1:42:31 - 1:42:36] ▶
all the targets, he says, you know, they just don't want to be discovered. They don't want
[1:42:36 - 1:42:43] ▶
people around the planet to know that they're there. We don't want people hiking up the mountain
[1:42:45 - 1:42:51] ▶
and saying, hey, you guys, what are you doing here? Who's they?
[1:42:51 - 1:42:53] ▶
The it depends on which thing you win. And I don't believe all of it. In other words, there's
[1:42:55 - 1:43:03] ▶
lots of things that they say. Like one of them is their home base is Mars. And I don't necessarily
[1:43:03 - 1:43:10] ▶
believe that. But other people have said something about that. So I'm looking specifically
[1:43:10 - 1:43:16] ▶
at the material I have and not adding in things that other people have said.
[1:43:17 - 1:43:22] ▶
So what is the material that you had on these four different locations? What were they?
[1:43:22 - 1:43:27] ▶
So we're moving to the next phase. And let me try to make sure I understand the question you're
[1:43:28 - 1:43:39] ▶
asking is that the only thing I had to start with was crisis transcript that put off gave me,
[1:43:39 - 1:43:51] ▶
and I changed them into questions. So what was what was Pat's transcript specifically?
[1:43:52 - 1:44:00] ▶
What was going on at these four different locations? The one in Australia, Alaska, Spain,
[1:44:00 - 1:44:06] ▶
and the location in Africa. Joe started out on his thing and he usually lays down and then he gets up
[1:44:07 - 1:44:16] ▶
and comes to the desk and draws for me and explains the drawing. Meanwhile, I'm
[1:44:17 - 1:44:23] ▶
tape recording the whole thing. So he says, this is for Mount Hayes in the last case.
[1:44:23 - 1:44:29] ▶
Okay, before I describe these pictures here, I have to make a statement. You have to bear with
[1:44:29 - 1:44:35] ▶
my descriptions and everything what they lack because I can't find a lot of difficulty in describing
[1:44:35 - 1:44:42] ▶
this because I've never seen anything that remotely resembles this part of the target.
[1:44:42 - 1:44:47] ▶
Now he doesn't know he's looking at prices stuff. Sealed envelope and all that stuff.
[1:44:48 - 1:44:54] ▶
I've never seen anything like I just have no familiarity with it. I mean, I don't even recognize
[1:44:56 - 1:45:01] ▶
the screws and bolts of this thing. It's just completely off the wall as far as the target.
[1:45:01 - 1:45:07] ▶
So I have nothing to relate to you. So I have to present it as I envisioned it.
[1:45:07 - 1:45:13] ▶
And I ask him, what do you mean by off the wall? It's brand new. It's never existed before.
[1:45:14 - 1:45:20] ▶
This is a prototype of something. Something completely new concept. It's like asking an aborigini
[1:45:20 - 1:45:27] ▶
who has never seen an automobile to crawl inside the automobile and then describe in his terms.
[1:45:27 - 1:45:34] ▶
What's an automobile? When he has no terms for screws and bolts and seat covers and windows and
[1:45:35 - 1:45:42] ▶
glass and metal, even the most rudimentary parts of this thing have no meaning whatsoever.
[1:45:42 - 1:45:50] ▶
And so we kind of knew he was in trouble. This is the kind of position I'm in.
[1:45:51 - 1:46:03] ▶
I've seen something. I have not even a rudimentary term to explain as far as other than a
[1:46:04 - 1:46:12] ▶
gestalt concept. And you're really asking me to draw this. So how and why my drawings are not
[1:46:12 - 1:46:20] ▶
going to be very good? Skip a little bit. Given that's true, here's page one. I have a bunch of water,
[1:46:20 - 1:46:29] ▶
land, ice, all these general things written here, my sketch. This is generally a very
[1:46:29 - 1:46:36] ▶
desolate area. And Drew and Mountain Ridge wrote mountains. This whole range of mountains has
[1:46:36 - 1:46:43] ▶
extends for thousands of miles. So I'll give you an idea of the scale of which I'm drawing and
[1:46:43 - 1:46:48] ▶
sort of put an X here where I perceive the target to be. So he goes on in his full transcript about
[1:46:48 - 1:46:56] ▶
Mount Hayes, an icy covered mountain and so forth and so on.
[1:46:57 - 1:47:02] ▶
He has a lot of them. I want to
[1:47:07 - 1:47:09] ▶
read you, you've heard of different types of remote viewing,
[1:47:11 - 1:47:19] ▶
judges, ladies and talk, but then Ingo Swan tells this story about you have to put them
[1:47:19 - 1:47:28] ▶
right across this way and then go down here and write that. It's Ingo's technique of trying
[1:47:28 - 1:47:37] ▶
to keep thoughts and ideas organized, which makes me wonder about this whole idea of
[1:47:37 - 1:47:44] ▶
you're everywhere, every when in Ingo, although it didn't speak with that way,
[1:47:45 - 1:47:49] ▶
tries to get you to organize these different things so that you'll stay focused on something and
[1:47:51 - 1:47:57] ▶
not try to dispray everything. Anyway, this coordinate remote viewing here, there are
[1:47:57 - 1:48:03] ▶
the whole point of this exercise other than challenge target is to say
[1:48:04 - 1:48:10] ▶
that thing that priced it in 93 and undergrinding off O-Bases everything,
[1:48:10 - 1:48:18] ▶
is that a bunch of garbage or is there any idea that maybe some of the things
[1:48:18 - 1:48:23] ▶
that he said were really true? And so the result of my thing is like,
[1:48:24 - 1:48:30] ▶
that sounds pretty darn good 10 years later. So I'm going to read this as a summary of one of
[1:48:31 - 1:48:38] ▶
those people that did the remote viewing by Ingo Swan. He didn't do it, but one of our trainees,
[1:48:38 - 1:48:46] ▶
his name was Bill Ray. Site is a mountain. It is bitter cold and windy,
[1:48:48 - 1:49:00] ▶
much snow, much wind and snow. There may be partly or completely frozen
[1:49:01 - 1:49:12] ▶
body of water nearby. The mountain is hollow. It is large cave or crater. This has
[1:49:13 - 1:49:23] ▶
huge rooms and walls curved high ceilings. There is an opening into the caves. The cavern is clear,
[1:49:23 - 1:49:34] ▶
sterile. There's an equipment and different points there in the corridor. Some of the equipment is
[1:49:35 - 1:49:46] ▶
monitoring other support, maybe for life support. There are silver metallic ships
[1:49:47 - 1:49:54] ▶
that which are very quick. They are durable and are large and small. They are used to transport
[1:49:55 - 1:50:06] ▶
people and equipment. There are some people here. They are thin, emotional,
[1:50:06 - 1:50:14] ▶
and have programmed feelings. They are strange and have a pre-designed mission.
[1:50:16 - 1:50:28] ▶
They are freezing and cooling semi-isolated. They feel unearthly. The site has a research feeling,
[1:50:30 - 1:50:41] ▶
the feeling like security. The people are benign and serious and are interrelated. Site end.
[1:50:41 - 1:50:55] ▶
So there are several of those on I Am The Grot 1 because of time.
[1:50:57 - 1:51:01] ▶
What I did in 8200 to find out about what price did in 1973.
[1:51:01 - 1:51:14] ▶
Some people have said to me, that is perfectly. It matches perfectly. I am not ready to go that
[1:51:18 - 1:51:24] ▶
far, but it sure sounds like you have two people and they describe what it was like when they
[1:51:24 - 1:51:31] ▶
went to the football game and this one describes what it was like in the football game.
[1:51:31 - 1:51:35] ▶
They are not going to be exactly the same. I think that is what is playing into it here. These
[1:51:36 - 1:51:42] ▶
are all different people trying to explain this strange thing that they are seeing while remote
[1:51:42 - 1:51:47] ▶
programmed thoughts. What is that? Did he respond upon that at all?
[1:51:48 - 1:51:54] ▶
Different concepts that these program thoughts people can use telepathy to tell you to turn left
[1:52:02 - 1:52:14] ▶
and instead of to turn right or you don't see anything here. Some sort of program telepathy.
[1:52:14 - 1:52:21] ▶
When the thing was interesting, I was asked, people have gone up there. People that are UFO
[1:52:25 - 1:52:38] ▶
type people have gone up there and looked around, but they can't find how to get into the mountain.
[1:52:38 - 1:52:44] ▶
My wife said, what makes you think they have to get into the mountain?
[1:52:48 - 1:52:52] ▶
There are lots of things on different things that are being proven now. They can walk right through
[1:52:55 - 1:52:59] ▶
them or they can use this programmed thing and not let you see where the cave begins.
[1:52:59 - 1:53:11] ▶
That was one of the things people were certainly worried about and somebody said,
[1:53:14 - 1:53:19] ▶
wouldn't some investigators, some intelligence people go up there and find out if this is true
[1:53:21 - 1:53:28] ▶
because there's all this going on. I don't think they'd tell me if they did.
[1:53:28 - 1:53:36] ▶
Now, what about you just mentioned maybe they used the program thoughts to
[1:53:40 - 1:53:47] ▶
conceal the entrance? What are you speaking of when you say people can walk through things?
[1:53:47 - 1:53:55] ▶
Well, first of all, what is the name of that place that they're showing on TV now where they're
[1:53:55 - 1:54:09] ▶
studying that place in the mountains where they're watching. I'm sorry, I just can't remember right now.
[1:54:10 - 1:54:17] ▶
But they see lights coming down and going in here and then going through the mountain and popping
[1:54:18 - 1:54:24] ▶
out over here. We have these days physically watched that happen and the idea
[1:54:24 - 1:54:34] ▶
that was just my wife's comment is what makes them think they couldn't go through the mountain?
[1:54:37 - 1:54:44] ▶
Or they, so a softer way of saying that is they can be controlled so they can't see where
[1:54:44 - 1:54:51] ▶
they go in the mountain. But they're also real films now that show that happens. How do you
[1:54:51 - 1:55:00] ▶
articulate that? How do you, what's happening there? How is that happening? I watch it on TV like
[1:55:00 - 1:55:09] ▶
everybody else does and I see it come down and it's been going on for quite a while. I think you
[1:55:09 - 1:55:16] ▶
must have seen the programs. I just can't remember the name of them right now. But the
[1:55:16 - 1:55:20] ▶
how would I, what do I think about that and how they do it?
[1:55:23 - 1:55:28] ▶
I don't have an answer. I know that it's been videotape that it's been documented by a lot of
[1:55:31 - 1:55:36] ▶
different people and they bring in experts into try to figure it out. And what you see in the films
[1:55:36 - 1:55:43] ▶
that they make is it goes through over here and it goes out, they're over there. And when I watch
[1:55:43 - 1:55:50] ▶
it, I'm saying, well, look at that. I don't have the wherewithal other than whatever they're doing.
[1:55:50 - 1:56:01] ▶
They'd something we don't know how about and that's what they're investigating.
[1:56:01 - 1:56:05] ▶
Well, what about the, so this was Mount Hayes, correct? We're just speaking of, we're talking about
[1:56:05 - 1:56:11] ▶
Mount Hayes in that situation. What do they, what are Pat and Joe saying about the other three
[1:56:13 - 1:56:20] ▶
locations? Were they identical? Were there any variations?
[1:56:21 - 1:56:26] ▶
Yes, I don't have that here in my notes. I have it all written down at home. Do you
[1:56:27 - 1:56:34] ▶
remember any of it? It's well documented in my books too. If we're talking about this particular
[1:56:34 - 1:56:43] ▶
set of beings in the 80 to 100 beings, I remember that they
[1:56:43 - 1:56:48] ▶
would, reportedly, would interfere with
[1:56:56 - 1:57:01] ▶
one of our aircraft that would go over and could take satellite pictures in that range and that
[1:57:01 - 1:57:14] ▶
satellite would have some problems because they didn't want anything to be photograph. They didn't
[1:57:14 - 1:57:22] ▶
want, it was very important for them not to be discovered. Interesting. Again, they don't seem to be
[1:57:22 - 1:57:34] ▶
dangerous or concerned with hurting us in any way. Just don't get discovered.
[1:57:36 - 1:57:43] ▶
But they got discovered. Well, in this particular case with the help of Pat Price and
[1:57:44 - 1:57:52] ▶
10 years later, were the follow-on of these remote viewers looking at it?
[1:57:54 - 1:57:58] ▶
Did anyone else other than Joe and Pat remote view these locations? Yes, they,
[1:57:59 - 1:58:04] ▶
I had 7, 6, Joe and Joe did all four places, Pat did it, but then I had these other
[1:58:05 - 1:58:22] ▶
cordon or remote viewers or controlled remote viewers. I had six of those. That's what I read
[1:58:25 - 1:58:30] ▶
you when I read you this. Okay. So with everything that you know about this and you set up project
[1:58:30 - 1:58:40] ▶
80 to 100, what is your conclusion? What are these?
[1:58:40 - 1:58:44] ▶
We have to ask the question softer. My job, I was an Army officer at the time in my job,
[1:58:49 - 1:59:00] ▶
to do these kinds of remote viewing things. Not, this wasn't tasked by anybody but me just for
[1:59:01 - 1:59:11] ▶
training purposes. My results are these look very similar to what Pat Price did.
[1:59:11 - 1:59:20] ▶
I think that there's a validity to the Pat Price work and the work that they did.
[1:59:22 - 1:59:27] ▶
But when you take one step further, what do I think about them? What are they doing?
[1:59:27 - 1:59:33] ▶
And how can they do that? And what this is? That wasn't my job. That wasn't something that I know about.
[1:59:33 - 1:59:40] ▶
It's pretty weird stuff, but it was project. It's pretty weird. We're doing all right.
[1:59:45 - 1:59:51] ▶
Project 80 to 100 was about checking out what Price said. And my remote viewers said,
[1:59:51 - 1:59:59] ▶
well interestingly it matches pretty interestingly. So we're talking six to seven different
[1:59:59 - 2:00:06] ▶
remote viewers all remote viewed these locations and said something very similar to say.
[2:00:06 - 2:00:11] ▶
Yes. And has there been any reported activity from civilian population, news, media, anything from
[2:00:11 - 2:00:20] ▶
any of these locations? Apparently it is a common thing in those type of people that are
[2:00:20 - 2:00:29] ▶
UFO people or running around. There's many, many, many people who have big opinions about UFOs
[2:00:31 - 2:00:38] ▶
and are talking about them all the time. Those people seem to know about this too a little bit.
[2:00:38 - 2:00:46] ▶
And I don't deal with talking to them. What is your opinion on UFOs? Are they real? I don't know
[2:00:46 - 2:00:58] ▶
how to answer that question. It's not part of my job. And I hear you trying to sec about
[2:00:58 - 2:01:03] ▶
suck things out of me in terms of, well what do you think? Well what do you think? And it's like
[2:01:05 - 2:01:10] ▶
I think I did a pretty good job organizing how to find out what Price did. Do you believe in UFOs?
[2:01:10 - 2:01:21] ▶
You're really good in your questions. I want to read you a little bit this later. But
[2:01:27 - 2:01:32] ▶
if I try to sidestep you like I'm doing right now then you're going to draw a conclusion. I know
[2:01:33 - 2:01:43] ▶
what I'm just doing there. You really believe in him but he doesn't want to tell me. And the other
[2:01:43 - 2:01:48] ▶
hand I can say it's an interesting subject or I can talk more about it or I can say I can either
[2:01:48 - 2:02:00] ▶
confirm nor deny. And so there's lots of different things. Do you want me to tell you some stories?
[2:02:00 - 2:02:07] ▶
Absolutely. When I was a very small child living in California as a kid
[2:02:08 - 2:02:17] ▶
was out in the front yard with my mom walking around the ivy that my dad had planted so instead of
[2:02:18 - 2:02:26] ▶
grass so he didn't have to cut the grass all the time just had the green ivy out there. Big huge
[2:02:26 - 2:02:31] ▶
field green ivy. And I looked up there and said mom one of those five silver things up there.
[2:02:31 - 2:02:38] ▶
What are those things? She just said oh they call those UFOs don't worry about them they're fine.
[2:02:39 - 2:02:44] ▶
And another story from my weird family.
[2:02:46 - 2:02:49] ▶
Inga Swan had some encounters with a UFO on the ground and he snuck over him out and watched him
[2:02:49 - 2:03:01] ▶
and so forth and so on. And I asked put off do you trust what Inga says and he says yes absolutely
[2:03:01 - 2:03:11] ▶
Inga will never lie. He'll have mistakes and look at this and look at this but if he says he was
[2:03:11 - 2:03:18] ▶
there he saw one. When Joe and I both worked in Stargate together same office
[2:03:18 - 2:03:32] ▶
I had an incident where I was on top of a grassy knoll which I now used to explain as
[2:03:35 - 2:03:43] ▶
again forgetting the name I actually have a picture of it as an important say this name.
[2:03:49 - 2:03:54] ▶
There it is. Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory you know what that looks like?
[2:04:00 - 2:04:06] ▶
I don't it's outside of San Francisco.
[2:04:06 - 2:04:08] ▶
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Anyway so
[2:04:11 - 2:04:16] ▶
do you mind if I text this to myself so we can put it on screen?
[2:04:17 - 2:04:21] ▶
The story that I'm not telling you is about my actual encounters with the UFO.
[2:04:22 - 2:04:28] ▶
So Joe and I are both working in Stargate and one night I have this very strong
[2:04:28 - 2:04:38] ▶
I'm standing on a grassy knoll area
[2:04:39 - 2:04:46] ▶
and I'm looking around and there's lots of people this regular Joe's in James.
[2:04:50 - 2:04:57] ▶
Is that a good way to do that? Regular people there and I'm looking around
[2:04:57 - 2:05:03] ▶
and there's a sense of sort of being hypnotized during this zone.
[2:05:04 - 2:05:12] ▶
I wish I could do that name. Do you know when the healers down in South America go around and
[2:05:14 - 2:05:20] ▶
picture ears and picture eyes and stuff? They're all kind of mesmerized.
[2:05:21 - 2:05:28] ▶
And a trans mesmerized right? Well these people that I was standing around with on the grassy
[2:05:28 - 2:05:33] ▶
knoll area were all sort of mesmerized and they were like looking around and there were aliens
[2:05:33 - 2:05:44] ▶
in between them like interviewing them or talking to them and so forth.
[2:05:46 - 2:05:52] ▶
And I lost my composure because I was doing training and remote viewing and out of body stuff and all that.
[2:05:53 - 2:06:08] ▶
And I spoke in my thing. I spoke up and said well I teach people how to
[2:06:09 - 2:06:16] ▶
get out of their body and the aliens looked over at me and I said oh shit.
[2:06:17 - 2:06:24] ▶
I keep my mouth shut and they came over to me and they brought over to me a little.
[2:06:24 - 2:06:32] ▶
This is too big. It was just a little tiny thing that was round like this and had a needle thing
[2:06:35 - 2:06:40] ▶
here and in here there was a filled with fluid of some kind that was the color of
[2:06:41 - 2:06:52] ▶
kind of brownish color and it was much smaller like this and they came around to me and
[2:06:54 - 2:07:02] ▶
circled me and I'm still a probably a little mesmerized again by that time but I was like
[2:07:02 - 2:07:07] ▶
I realized I said something and I shouldn't have said and they stuck it in my leg and squeezed
[2:07:08 - 2:07:17] ▶
the brown part and I floated up into the air and they said kind of like that and I was like
[2:07:17 - 2:07:28] ▶
the other people and other aliens didn't care they looked up and they said hey what does he do
[2:07:29 - 2:07:34] ▶
inflow? No they didn't it was you know they didn't because of their mesmerization
[2:07:34 - 2:07:40] ▶
mesmer they didn't seem to care too much that I was floating up in the air and so forth and so on.
[2:07:41 - 2:07:47] ▶
Now this is a dream or this is real or let's just say this is an experience that I had.
[2:07:47 - 2:07:55] ▶
This is an out-of-body experience so you had an out-of-body experience
[2:07:56 - 2:08:01] ▶
in a grassy knoll. That's is that correct? No that's not jump to conclusions until I come to the end
[2:08:01 - 2:08:10] ▶
and then I'll say I give up but so I had an experience and my experience was I was in a grassy knoll
[2:08:10 - 2:08:20] ▶
and the next morning I wake up and I go to work for it made in Joe's in the office
[2:08:21 - 2:08:31] ▶
with everybody else and I walked by Joe well I'm sorry Joe was there amongst the other people Joe
[2:08:31 - 2:08:39] ▶
was there and I saw him there so in the experience yes I saw him in the experience so I
[2:08:39 - 2:08:47] ▶
with all the other people in the little aliens so I went over to Joe and I said hey Joe can I ask you
[2:08:47 - 2:08:54] ▶
something and he said sure what do you want and I said I was wondering if anything
[2:08:54 - 2:09:01] ▶
happened to you last night he said no just all those aliens that you and I were with
[2:09:02 - 2:09:07] ▶
I said okay thanks and I turned around walked out of the office and Joe and I to this day have
[2:09:08 - 2:09:14] ▶
never spoken of it again why why have you not spoken with them about that I don't know the answer
[2:09:14 - 2:09:20] ▶
to that but we hadn't talked about it now I did talk to put off about it sidebar put
[2:09:20 - 2:09:29] ▶
our really beliefs in UFOs okay coming back to put off I said I told him about my experience
[2:09:29 - 2:09:40] ▶
didn't tell him about Joe I don't think and he says was it up at what was the name of that place
[2:09:40 - 2:09:48] ▶
again Mount A's no no no no this oh I don't know okay
[2:09:48 - 2:09:57] ▶
he said to me was it at the Lawrence Livermore laboratory and I said
[2:10:04 - 2:10:10] ▶
really you think it was there because I know where that place is and
[2:10:12 - 2:10:16] ▶
he said well there's a lot of incidents up there they get reported and that's all he told me
[2:10:18 - 2:10:23] ▶
but he knew about the Lawrence Livermore thing so I started looking at pictures
[2:10:25 - 2:10:30] ▶
and I said that looks like a pretty darn good grassy knoll
[2:10:30 - 2:10:33] ▶
very very interesting so when you ask me about that I was reluctant to say anything about that
[2:10:35 - 2:10:44] ▶
and I have had a discrete out of body experience
[2:10:45 - 2:10:53] ▶
and found myself in the it's hard to talk about dimensions but I was standing behind an alien
[2:10:57 - 2:11:09] ▶
in a spacecraft just a small one which I understand get bigger and smaller depending upon
[2:11:09 - 2:11:18] ▶
at any rate he said you shouldn't be here and I said I know I realize this is a strange place
[2:11:20 - 2:11:29] ▶
but before I go could I ask you a question and this is really a very strong memory and
[2:11:29 - 2:11:41] ▶
Hill excuse me in my head you know I don't remember what I had for dinner last night but this is in
[2:11:41 - 2:11:47] ▶
there I'm telling myself I'm silly again dude it's not in there at any rate
[2:11:47 - 2:11:55] ▶
and he said okay and I said how do you get from here to Alpha Centauri we can't do that the
[2:11:59 - 2:12:10] ▶
only thing that we think about is I have to go really fast for a really long time how is it that
[2:12:10 - 2:12:17] ▶
you can go to Alpha Centauri without any problem and essentially he said you wouldn't understand
[2:12:17 - 2:12:23] ▶
so I said I agree that's a problem however I know that you have access to my mental thoughts
[2:12:24 - 2:12:34] ▶
I mean that's you're not talking to me with your mouth you have access to my mental thoughts and
[2:12:35 - 2:12:39] ▶
I understand that can you use what information I have in my head and try to explain it to me
[2:12:39 - 2:12:45] ▶
and he said well do you know what a Rubik's cube is and I said oh yeah my son can do him in two
[2:12:47 - 2:12:53] ▶
minutes he says okay so imagine a Rubik's cube but not necessarily just the six sides or just
[2:12:53 - 2:13:00] ▶
imagine the concept of a Rubik's cube and I said okay now imagine on each one of the tiles on the
[2:13:00 - 2:13:06] ▶
Rubik's cube has a chart of the elements an elemental chart and you say oh yeah I know what that
[2:13:06 - 2:13:19] ▶
is you know I've had science in school and everything he says now on each of the other five
[2:13:19 - 2:13:24] ▶
surfaces there's also elemental charts and I said so okay but what's the deal he said well
[2:13:24 - 2:13:34] ▶
you're thinking about going that way very fast for a very long time what he didn't say to me
[2:13:35 - 2:13:44] ▶
which I'm thinking right now there's no space in time I only thinking that right now that wasn't
[2:13:44 - 2:13:50] ▶
part of the explanation and he says so what you do to get to Alpha Centauri is you just twist the cube
[2:13:50 - 2:13:58] ▶
and I said what do you mean he said well I told you he wouldn't understand and he said
[2:14:01 - 2:14:09] ▶
when the periodic table occurs in a different place you're at that place and that's just a very
[2:14:09 - 2:14:19] ▶
crude explanation but you have to stop thinking about go that way for a long time very fast
[2:14:19 - 2:14:28] ▶
it doesn't work and so you know the Rubik's cube and all that nonsense it's probably just trying to
[2:14:29 - 2:14:38] ▶
mess with my mind and everything and because that doesn't make how many Rubik's cubes
[2:14:39 - 2:14:47] ▶
do you have to have you know it's a stupid question it's just an explanation for me to try to
[2:14:47 - 2:14:51] ▶
get my thinking straight because he was very strong when he said so it has to be utilizing some type
[2:14:53 - 2:14:59] ▶
of a consciousness correct I I think that that's absolutely true it's a consciousness act
[2:14:59 - 2:15:06] ▶
and so you're talking about quantum what was it quantum locale correct yeah and so it has to be
[2:15:07 - 2:15:17] ▶
some kind of a connection if you heard of if you heard of what is they call it man now I'm now
[2:15:17 - 2:15:27] ▶
having problems quantum entanglement it's a waste of be something like that work I mean we the entire
[2:15:28 - 2:15:38] ▶
our entire conversation you've been talking about everything is one connect
[2:15:39 - 2:15:43] ▶
how everything is connected and so it had in I mean even even the Chinese if claimed to be
[2:15:44 - 2:15:52] ▶
able to communicate with their satellites now via quantum entanglement whether that's real or
[2:15:52 - 2:15:58] ▶
bullshit I don't know but supposedly the promises every atom is connected and and you know we've
[2:15:58 - 2:16:05] ▶
talked about this several times on the show we split an atom in half and you vibrate this half no
[2:16:05 - 2:16:11] ▶
matter where yes in space and time exactly the other half is it will mimic the exact same vibration
[2:16:11 - 2:16:22] ▶
this that's being manipulated on the other half and so that has to be that has oh yes it doesn't
[2:16:22 - 2:16:29] ▶
have to but I would think that that would come into play well we're trying very hard
[2:16:29 - 2:16:35] ▶
to think about it as humans in our little brains but then there's a does seem to be
[2:16:35 - 2:16:43] ▶
help coming along like this just to end this part of the story there's no end there's no space
[2:16:44 - 2:16:55] ▶
not time passed and it occurred to me wait a minute I don't have to twist the cube if I just turn
[2:16:56 - 2:17:06] ▶
the cube on the other surface is a different world and this same guy spoke to me instantly in my brain
[2:17:06 - 2:17:15] ▶
saying I've been waiting for you to discover that and it's like like he didn't ever go anywhere
[2:17:15 - 2:17:24] ▶
because you can't ever go anywhere so it was very interesting to me you know one way gee why did you
[2:17:24 - 2:17:36] ▶
wait three years to tell me that and there's no such thing as the three years to think about but it
[2:17:36 - 2:17:43] ▶
was like sat me up like this and said I didn't say anything in my head I was like well that was
[2:17:43 - 2:17:53] ▶
pretty interesting and so getting back to your question do I believe in UFOs I have had experiences
[2:17:53 - 2:18:08] ▶
so I guess it's just a matter of you trust your own experiences or not yes do you trust your
[2:18:09 - 2:18:15] ▶
own experiences yeah but there are false things around all the time you know green ice cream is
[2:18:15 - 2:18:23] ▶
no good for you yada vanilla you know so is that a belief system and I say somebody told me one
[2:18:23 - 2:18:29] ▶
time he shouldn't eat green ice cream you know and so so I'm where I am right now at 77 years old
[2:18:29 - 2:18:38] ▶
and the experiences I've had I have no doubt that there is something going on besides us on this
[2:18:38 - 2:18:45] ▶
planet there's something else there and maybe because the everywhere every when
[2:18:45 - 2:18:53] ▶
and if they are all one there's no such thing as they're part of us they're part of our family
[2:18:57 - 2:19:04] ▶
they're part of our group interesting concept that I've not heard before
[2:19:05 - 2:19:10] ▶
do you have any other how how how far down the rabbit hole did you guys go with this with
[2:19:14 - 2:19:24] ▶
their other projects other than 8200 of that time you know I mean I remember when I interviewed
[2:19:24 - 2:19:33] ▶
Joe he had mentioned he had mentioned remote viewing a pyramid on Mars and I believe the year was
[2:19:33 - 2:19:41] ▶
2000 BC do you have any recollection of that I sent Joe to Mars you're the one that sent him there
[2:19:41 - 2:19:48] ▶
mm-hmm let's can you just kind of relive that experience actually let me let me let me let me
[2:19:48 - 2:19:59] ▶
let me start with a preliminary question how did that pop up on anybody's radar why did you
[2:19:59 - 2:20:06] ▶
even give Joe a specific grid coordinate on Mars with a date
[2:20:07 - 2:20:13] ▶
you know I don't remember right I mean I even have that on video and the whole thing
[2:20:13 - 2:20:23] ▶
um on my computer which I'll send you and you can listen to it but I don't remember actually why I
[2:20:23 - 2:20:32] ▶
did that you don't remember why somebody gave gave you a coordinate to have Joe with monocle
[2:20:32 - 2:20:39] ▶
remote view Mars I would rather say what I just said and that is I don't remember why I did that
[2:20:39 - 2:20:49] ▶
okay what did you think when Joe discovered the pyramid through his experience well I
[2:20:49 - 2:20:58] ▶
tended to believe him on a couple of things um
[2:21:00 - 2:21:04] ▶
I had during the thing he
[2:21:07 - 2:21:10] ▶
his money had something to do with put off because I asked some questions about it of put off
[2:21:15 - 2:21:21] ▶
anyway the planet is a different size than ours so he had to be careful about what he said
[2:21:21 - 2:21:32] ▶
one time he looked at the sun and he said what's wrong with the sun I said Joe we can't study that
[2:21:34 - 2:21:39] ▶
right now we have to look at this coordinate here and the coordinates on Mars all go just in one
[2:21:39 - 2:21:46] ▶
direction the east west and north south but they you know us who we split this way in our east and west
[2:21:46 - 2:21:53] ▶
but on Mars it goes away around I got goofed up for a while there and then I remember coordinates
[2:21:53 - 2:22:01] ▶
don't matter anyway he's just doing what he's doing and if I say it you know go check out the
[2:22:01 - 2:22:08] ▶
peanuts you know okay you wouldn't mean anything um
[2:22:08 - 2:22:12] ▶
and then he came back down and I said you know go over there and go over here and then he said
[2:22:17 - 2:22:24] ▶
used to be a good used to be a healthy planet but it got hit by something and I said are you saying
[2:22:31 - 2:22:39] ▶
it was uh something exploded something was destroyed he says it was um
[2:22:39 - 2:22:44] ▶
like an asteroid came and hit the planet and that tore the atmosphere off of it and for millions of
[2:22:49 - 2:22:59] ▶
years now it's just been deteriorating after it lost its atmosphere um and then he said and
[2:22:59 - 2:23:07] ▶
there's some people in the pyramid thing I don't know if we just said building or a pyramid but
[2:23:07 - 2:23:12] ▶
it could have said pyramid and um people hid in there knowing that the comet was coming they wanted
[2:23:13 - 2:23:23] ▶
to create an environment where they could uh survive and then come out after the destruction
[2:23:23 - 2:23:34] ▶
of the terribleness and I said well can you go
[2:23:35 - 2:23:39] ▶
and he was able to go back in time I told him to go back in time till before that hit and he described
[2:23:44 - 2:23:51] ▶
you know tall aliens and so forth and so on and I said well how about now can you go inside the
[2:23:53 - 2:23:59] ▶
pyramid and he said oh no it's been too long it's been a long long time and they're all dead
[2:23:59 - 2:24:07] ▶
now they didn't survive and then he said um
[2:24:07 - 2:24:13] ▶
but some of them didn't go into that some of them took off like they
[2:24:15 - 2:24:21] ▶
had a spaceship or some kind and they took off and then he described something that looked
[2:24:23 - 2:24:28] ▶
an awful lot like earth before the earth got torn apart by um you know a young earth with volcanoes
[2:24:28 - 2:24:42] ▶
and stuff all around there like how do the frying pan into the fire was kind of the thing I was
[2:24:42 - 2:24:48] ▶
saying it's like that's as far as they could get but it was at least it was off Mars
[2:24:48 - 2:24:53] ▶
now that I think back it might be that put off had something to do with trying to get me to do
[2:24:53 - 2:25:05] ▶
that work because I remember talking with him about it I'll send them movie to you and you can see
[2:25:05 - 2:25:12] ▶
it I would appreciate that would be okay if we put some of the clips into this interview as we
[2:25:12 - 2:25:17] ▶
talk about it sure because then you would have it to show thank you
[2:25:17 - 2:25:21] ▶
how did how did pad die
[2:25:26 - 2:25:28] ▶
slowly this or not this and I think there are many many stories about
[2:25:32 - 2:25:40] ▶
pad to dying and everybody has a different story do you really want to I mean this is really
[2:25:40 - 2:25:51] ▶
it's I can tell you that and then you'll have the stories too um
[2:25:51 - 2:25:54] ▶
there was a sense that um
[2:25:59 - 2:26:02] ▶
73 he was active and stuff 75 he was dead
[2:26:06 - 2:26:10] ▶
CMI CIA got him away from SRI because they saw what he did and CIA hired him
[2:26:14 - 2:26:25] ▶
lived in the Virginia area it's some of the reports say he was in Washington DC you know it was
[2:26:27 - 2:26:35] ▶
in the Virginia area that's how far apart Virginia and Washington DC uh
[2:26:35 - 2:26:39] ▶
depends on where to go the store or not you know at any rate um
[2:26:40 - 2:26:44] ▶
rumor that came up that he was sick and that he was going to die and he collapsed in a restaurant
[2:26:53 - 2:27:02] ▶
and they took him to the hospital
[2:27:03 - 2:27:06] ▶
I'm going to tell these stories differently and you're going to get them mixed up okay um
[2:27:13 - 2:27:20] ▶
took him to the hospital and
[2:27:21 - 2:27:23] ▶
he disappeared from the hospital when two people came to take him and said they're going to take him to
[2:27:31 - 2:27:37] ▶
the funeral home and people say well who were these guys I don't know but I think when
[2:27:38 - 2:27:45] ▶
you know bill was on night duty but he's not here today and I don't really know who that was
[2:27:46 - 2:27:55] ▶
why don't you check at the desk or something um nobody could identify who they were
[2:27:55 - 2:28:00] ▶
I say CIA would do that because he was their employee and had lots of classified stuff
[2:28:00 - 2:28:07] ▶
and so they were taking and
[2:28:08 - 2:28:10] ▶
Russell Tarr tells the story that then they were
[2:28:14 - 2:28:17] ▶
they took him and they cremated him and buried him in an unmarked grave and he went looking for
[2:28:19 - 2:28:25] ▶
the grave and see there's the grave that says 155 and it doesn't say anything about it
[2:28:25 - 2:28:32] ▶
it's an unmarked grave was supposedly ashes are in there the agency just decided they were
[2:28:33 - 2:28:40] ▶
going to cremate him and bury him and an unmarked grave
[2:28:40 - 2:28:45] ▶
I would suggest that something like that but having you say it was much better um
[2:28:49 - 2:28:56] ▶
that's one story okay second story oh and then I'm sorry after he was buried
[2:29:01 - 2:29:07] ▶
they called his wife okay and that's the story that Russell got when he went looking for
[2:29:09 - 2:29:16] ▶
what happened to the Russell Tarr got that now story two I think there'll be three stories
[2:29:16 - 2:29:25] ▶
story two is Pat Price
[2:29:25 - 2:29:28] ▶
Howe howe and Pat's wife
[2:29:38 - 2:29:45] ▶
I think the places Las Vegas area I'm not too sure um and
[2:29:51 - 2:29:57] ▶
go to the hospital and they say oh well he got taken to the funeral home
[2:30:01 - 2:30:05] ▶
they go to the and we don't know who that was and they go to the funeral home
[2:30:05 - 2:30:09] ▶
and there's Pat Price's body
[2:30:10 - 2:30:13] ▶
Howe tells me it looks like
[2:30:22 - 2:30:25] ▶
Price um his wife is there and they agree it looks like him
[2:30:28 - 2:30:32] ▶
but it's not so hard to do that to a body and the
[2:30:33 - 2:30:36] ▶
TA is good at fixing stuff up that needs to be fixed up um
[2:30:37 - 2:30:42] ▶
I don't know after that
[2:30:47 - 2:30:50] ▶
I there's four stories not three um I don't know after that
[2:30:53 - 2:30:58] ▶
because the next question well did they bury that
[2:31:00 - 2:31:03] ▶
no I don't know the story to that I only know what Howe told me it was out you know
[2:31:03 - 2:31:09] ▶
he was missing and there and he went up there and there was a body the other story we know is like
[2:31:10 - 2:31:15] ▶
the body was burned and so forth and so on
[2:31:16 - 2:31:18] ▶
um this is one two do you know the the true story of what happened
[2:31:21 - 2:31:28] ▶
well no I don't but I know when I heard this story from Howe and nobody knew what happened after that
[2:31:29 - 2:31:39] ▶
what do you think I would do I would probably if I were you I would go to the locations that
[2:31:40 - 2:31:49] ▶
people said that he was buried and see what's there
[2:31:49 - 2:31:54] ▶
um did you do that no I put Pat Price's picture in an envelope and gave that sealed envelope to
[2:31:54 - 2:32:02] ▶
Joe and asked him Joe to describe where the person in the picture was and are asking first
[2:32:02 - 2:32:10] ▶
thing out of Joe's mouth this guy does something like what I do and I said Joe my task is to tell me
[2:32:10 - 2:32:18] ▶
where he is it doesn't matter about he does what you do okay okay wait a minute
[2:32:18 - 2:32:28] ▶
he's in an underground office in Virginia somewhere
[2:32:32 - 2:32:37] ▶
okay Joe well let's start with that and I'll get back to you
[2:32:39 - 2:32:43] ▶
and then he was used to me saying that because I used to take the envelope into
[2:32:44 - 2:32:49] ▶
major what now Colonel what and say to him
[2:32:51 - 2:32:56] ▶
what do you think should I continue I didn't really do that but he knew Joe knew it was okay for me
[2:32:58 - 2:33:05] ▶
to say okay well stop for now Joe and I'll get back to you I never did get back to him
[2:33:05 - 2:33:11] ▶
but why didn't you get back with him I didn't want to go too far I was doing something outside my
[2:33:12 - 2:33:23] ▶
purview as being the guy in that office things and I just kept my mouth shut so you have reason to
[2:33:23 - 2:33:34] ▶
believe that Pat Price's death was false and that he may still be alive doing work oh he'd be
[2:33:34 - 2:33:42] ▶
well over 100 years old now well at the time so when I think about all the shenanigans that
[2:33:42 - 2:33:50] ▶
went on before looked a lot like oh I know what the fourth one is somebody somebody said
[2:33:51 - 2:33:58] ▶
oh he couldn't have been killed by the CIA to get rid of him because he went and
[2:33:58 - 2:34:05] ▶
got his son this thing and got his wife this thing and you could tell he was not enough and I'm saying
[2:34:07 - 2:34:14] ▶
the CIA could made up all those stories so everybody would go discover those stories
[2:34:15 - 2:34:20] ▶
hmm so that's the fourth situation interesting and that's my answer interesting yeah very interesting
[2:34:20 - 2:34:31] ▶
well skip we are we are getting close to time here so I do want to ask you know why was the
[2:34:33 - 2:34:40] ▶
Stargate program dismantled it was told to be dismantled and they created one gal who said no this
[2:34:40 - 2:34:49] ▶
is going on and look at so many percentages of this happened this happened and the other guy said
[2:34:49 - 2:34:53] ▶
oh no it's a bunch of nonsense and they assessed the other it was time for it to be gone okay do you
[2:34:53 - 2:35:02] ▶
think they are continuing the program a different name
[2:35:02 - 2:35:06] ▶
they already had five other programs what did I say then what are those programs
[2:35:19 - 2:35:27] ▶
I have long since not been a part of the 26 years and 12 years retirement
[2:35:33 - 2:35:39] ▶
it's a long time ago and nobody would have told me anyways
[2:35:39 - 2:35:45] ▶
fair enough well skip I really appreciate you making the trip out here and it's just a fast
[2:35:47 - 2:35:55] ▶
standing subject and it's cool to be talking to somebody that was a part of it all thank you
[2:35:55 - 2:36:01] ▶
skib oh good on this have a good one
[2:36:01 - 2:36:10] ▶
no matter where you're watching Sean Ryan show from if you get anything out of this please like
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[2:36:21 - 2:36:27] ▶
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[2:36:27 - 2:36:37] ▶