Transcript: Jake Barber And Matt Pines On Skywatcher And Studying UAPs | Unveiled Ep. 13

I think they tried to do some, uh, experiment-like, um, uh, setups during, during that, that show, but it wasn't like a systematic scientific study, right?

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Where you have double blind control trials, where the experimenter doesn't know the test subject doesn't know, uh, the results you have essentially,

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the ideal setup to try to demonstrate with the statistical degree of, of confidence, right?

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You do your T tests, you do the stats, you show, okay?

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So this is what we would expect if it was just blind chance or guessing, and this is the results we get, and the repeatability of, of, of, of the, uh, say, accuracy of the test subject's ability to, uh, see what, say the mother is seeing in another room, is vastly above what you would expect if it was just a random guess, right?

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So you need to have the control trials, the repeatable experimental runs, and because you're dealing with individuals like these individuals in the telepathy tapes that are, you know, these are, these are children.

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So you need to get IRB approval, like, you need to go through a lot to kind of do that, do that test. It's not as simple as, oh, like, yeah, like, just do the experiment, right? Like you could just, um, hold your buddies on a weekend, right?

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You need to do it serious, serious science takes a lot of work, takes a lot of money, takes time.

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Uh, and I think up until now, like, because these questions were not, um, considered, uh, viable questions to ask, if there's no national science foundation, grant program, that's funding research in academic departments on this stuff.

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So if you're a postdoc and you're looking for tenure track position, or you're a tenure track, uh, uh, you know, or you've already have tenure, but you're still subject to a lot of, you know, in group, you know, peer pressure to publish or perish.

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Um, like, you're not going to waste your valuable research, uh, grant writing time to get on this limb here, right?

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Uh, you're going to stick, you're going to stick to your knitting. Um, and so this is where I think, yeah, ultimately need breakthrough research initiatives that aren't, you know, motivated off of return on capital investment, but our return on like intellectual investment.

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Um, and I think that we're reaching a point now where enough, enough sources of capital, uh, as well as individuals with serious benefit days, such as Jake and the rest of this guy watcher team, as well as the scientific community that is now kind of poking their head above water, right?

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So I think that's a lot of folks that have been tracking what sky watcher's been doing and reaching out to us, you know, from those domains, folks that have extremely, you know, like well developed academic and scientific credentials.

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Obviously we have Gary Nolan, who, you know, has needs needs needs, uh, needs no praise from me in terms of his academic and professional accomplishments.

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So, uh, the individuals of that caliber, uh, approach us and want to have a serious conversation about, essentially the scientific aspect of this and like, to be honest like I think the folks that we have involved their, like, um, technical experts, sensor experts, operations experts, um,

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but finally, it's about, you know, demonstrating this to the scientific community as well, and so, uh, that's going to be an area of continued, um, continued, uh, expansion.

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Yeah, this is there. Yeah. I think that's the problem right there is

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People with the capability and know how to

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To explore and conduct experiments

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they're their focus has them and

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Probably needs to be on things that are

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Kimberly implemented to some benefit for people so it's like you either studying medicine

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You're studying genetics. You're studying technology and so

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The the time and attention and the financing behind that

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Is is driven by producing some goods and services that can that are tangible we understand how to

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How to make them applicable for improving day-to-day life or whatever are making profit and when you get into this stuff

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It's it's something like we might prove that prayer is real and it's like

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Okay, what do you do with that? How do you monetize that? How do you turn that into medicine? How do you how does that impact our economy?

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How does that improve our

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Strength as a nation from a national defense standpoint and you can't really answer that question without result

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I think one of the interesting things is that this has existed, you know in the like spirituality sections of bookstores for a long time

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But there might be actually some scientific backing to be able to prove that this stuff that's been talked about and it's actually probably more widely accepted in society than

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UFOs are aliens that that there is there is a scientific grounding to this so

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I don't know what that says about you know what the the economic implications are but I do think that society already has a kind of openness to this this type of stuff

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Don't you? Yeah, I think society does but the people we need to study it aren't focused on it because of those

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reasons I listed so I don't know how to get there the interest is certainly there but the interest the people we need interested are those in in charge of our academic

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institutions

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Because the

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They're the ones that can look into this for us on behalf of the interested community or the government the government has the money and the means to

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To make people focus on this you know, there's only so much time in the day like

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For all of us and it doesn't matter how powerful you are if you're the president of the United States or you're the president of a university or you're the Nobel

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Laureate like you still have to like get eight hours of sleep brush your teeth take the kids to school and so

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And then you have to spend most of your professional time focused on things that

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put a roof over your head and food on the table and

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Keep you happy and healthy and I just I don't think that there's anyone looking at this because it doesn't serve

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And it or it doesn't fit into the schedule or the the goals that are already set out there

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I think it's it's there's not as much utility. It's more novel

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And so it takes it takes a group like us, which I I feel very fortunate that we that we have the opportunity

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We do I don't know how long it'll be here, but you know if the ultimate goal is to prove something like prayer exists or that we we can

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communicate with

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Anomalous phenomenon

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Once we get there is it sustainable and just looking at other things that are sustainable that people have taken an interest in it's a different different type of thing

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Yeah, I think you know our objectives are pretty focused in the in the near term right is go out collect more data

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try to share our analysis

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You know with relevant experts for cross-checking try to bring more perfect basically like sort of the water's warm to

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You know folks in academic of other professional domains to sort of you know build a bridge between between our activities in their professional expertise

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In generate a larger community of interest right like I don't think we're gonna end up answering all these questions by ourselves

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Right, but I think one of the key measures of success of scab archers that we could hopefully catalyze

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More serious broader scale effort by other individuals and other groups and other domains of professional expertise to sort of perk up and take notice

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And then start their own research projects and ultimately this is about you know getting the government out of the corner that it's backed itself into

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And building a bridge between maybe some information and knowledge

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That the government doesn't know how to share or who to share it with if there are you know public

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Private institutions that are in the open domain that aren't just about exploiting for our military research and development or a strategic national advantage or counterintelligence or whatever

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But are about scientific discovery open open

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engagement research

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That's how you have to kind of you know build this right you're not gonna like

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Snap your fingers and and have new institutions that can help

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You know the social sense-making process which is very difficult takes long periods of time and you know in different periods of human history

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We've we've had you know different

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Say full-commetaphysics which allowed the society to kind of incorporate a lot of different types of phenomenon into their belief system

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They they're sort of animus beliefs. They were you know

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Polytheistic belief systems. There were you know lots of human societies that had you know a very different type of metaphysics associated with their their cultural attitudes right

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I think in our modern context we have a sort of secular you know very materialistic kind of folk metaphysics

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You know, it's been very successful right motivating scientific discovery and sort of shaking off

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old

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You know kind of superstitious

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constraints on on sort of rational exploration of of the universe

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But I think as we sort of maybe come full circle in a sense is kind of that that rational

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Scientific investigatory mode has now bumped up into certain aspects of reality that

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That don't fit as the prevailing study metaphysical assumptions that had been in place in the last few hundred years

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Maybe since daycart first kind of separate out sort of minded matter and said you know the realm of the mind is sort of the realm of the church

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The realm of the spirit the soul prayer

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etc. Religious salvation that that is a that's one domain and then is the realm of the matter

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That's that's scientific measurement. That's that's rigorous mathematical model development

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I think human civilization sense sort of you know daycart is like been really successful

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It kind of sticking to its it's lane

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And carving out lots of different new domains of knowledge that we can apply and building up this tower of technology

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That's given us all the fruits that we that we take advantage of today

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But ultimately that separation right was maybe like a it was a heuristic that a lot of us to get to make some progress

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Right, but but fundamentally it had to make a certain division of our view of the world and now we have to kind of reaccommitate

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these two different

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You know aspects of how we think about the world in in a different fashion

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I think it's where the uap question is so challenging because it isn't just okay

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Are there anomalous things in the sky if so like what kinds and what are they and where they

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Come from right this is this opens up this pandora's box of questions as Jake mentioned and the government isn't necessarily going to be

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The right entity to answer all those questions like we don't go to the government for like theological or metaphysical answers

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Right like that's ultimately has to come from civil society from different faith traditions and and scientific traditions that all have to kind of

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Take take their own attitude and so I know I don't think scowards was gonna gonna answer all those questions

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But I think now it's okay. You need to have this this tentative bridge be built between

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At least in my personal opinion is a large wealth of information on some of this some of these topics that is not public

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And what we can now do in the private sector and that's a very like you know when you first build a bridge, right like

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You got to trust the engineers the first person to walk across it is sort of testing the bridge and they proved everyone else that the bridge is

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Is a real bridge and works and then you can get other people to start walking across it

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And then it just becomes accepted as part of the you know the architecture, right and you've got you've got

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You know a new mode of of transportation available to you. So I think that's just like we're in the very early stages of this

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And I think sky watchers objective here and this is the balancing act is to you know do this in public which of course is like very much

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I don't know like the expectations are so high, right?

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You're gonna prove existence of aliens improve that prayers real improve that consciousness is non-local

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Okay, well these are these are big claims like show me the beef right well again

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This is the proposition is we want to we want to aim at those core like almost existential level questions

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But it's gonna be a halting you know real all too human, you know

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Messy way to get get at some progress towards those questions

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You know folks watching this may may not be aware of kind of the long running kind of track of policy

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And law and I won't summarize all of it, but you know this isn't happening in a vacuum what sky watchers doing there's a large

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policymaker kind of bureaucratic focus on these on these topics that's been in place for several years is in particular different

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pieces of legislation have been passed you know even more introduced to try to appeal the onion

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Officially on the subject of UAPs and maybe unreported programs what sorts of information does the government have that maybe folks in Congress and other folks

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With relevant oversight responsibilities

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Feel like they're not being properly made aware of and so there's like a separate track of

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Advocacy for disclosure or for more government transparency and more accountability

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In Congress and that's that's been kind of a once you know two steps forward once that back kind of process playing out really since 2020 2021

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There's been folks that have been whistleblowers that have come to Congress and sort of shared information

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To help sort of move the needle and direct those government transparency efforts

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Skywatcher of course isn't an advocacy organization. We're not like a lobbyist, but we have expertise as a group on on on some of these some of these subjects

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And in particular as the government starts to try to move from you know a standpoint of denial to

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Potential affirmation or confirmation of the reality of this phenomenon, right?

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That's gonna it's gonna mean that kind of actually have to to do things about it, right?

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Like you when you pretend that something doesn't exist then you know those things that persistently kind of invade your airspace

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Is a problem, but you kind of can wave your hands away

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And and that is actually kind of a national security problem because adversaries are aware of your

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of that potential gap and

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We'll we'll exploit it

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And so there's a kind of a national security component of this as well as kind of the scientific discovery component of this and the capabilities that Skywatcher have are kind of

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Dole use in that sense like the same switch of sensors that we bring out to do scientific data collection

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It can also be you know used for more tactical

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You know defense applications

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I think our core focus is scientific discovery

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But along the trajectory like if we if we are

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If we are right in our hypothesis and some of the first person experiences is that there's a real phenomenon that that are

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Not figments of imagination are you know, misidentifications of balloons or drones. These are persistent

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Encourations over sensitive protected airspace by potentially both exotic, you know human capabilities from another government

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As well as non-human

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technologies well

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Okay, once you've sort of shaken off the

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You know ontological

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Surprise at that possibility you still have to do something about it

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Right still have to put sensors and monitor what's going on?

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You have to go like collect data you have to actually put put in place mechanisms and procedures and

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Right now the government just isn't because they haven't affirmed or confirmed that this is a real thing

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Like the bureaucracy hasn't gotten like the mandate to do much about it or what they can do about it has to be done very

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Slightly very much, you know with plausible deniability

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Which is not the best way to kind of do to do something like this

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So

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As I could say you know it's probably a good time. We may have kind of glossed over this, but you know your listeners

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may not

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Have watched previous episodes or information we put out

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But we we have three large buckets. There's a blue bucket a red bucket and another bucket. That's how we look at it

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Things operating in our sky that are there U.S.

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US based or owned or proprietary technology. That's the blue bucket the red bucket means it looks as though it's probably adversarial

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the other bucket is

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Everything else from non-human intelligence extra terrestrial

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uh

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Plasma anomalies and it could be anything. That's the interesting category and those buckets are what we further

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Then um break down into classes when we look at what we're observing in this guy right now

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We have nine classes that we have publicly released

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We have other classes that are in the works, but we don't have enough information on those classes to

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To confidently say you know that it's something

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um

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Different from the other nine classes or we just have one and like only an isolated incident where we had one piece of equipment gather observation on it

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So uh, so there are other pending classes

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Um, but the nine classes we have right now are essentially things that that look like hardware objects in the sky

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Uh, there's a couple of classes which which fallen that broader bucket then there's a set of classes which are more light-based anomalies like orbs

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plasma balls

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Uh light effects that may or may not have

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Solid object associated with them and then there's another class

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As crazy as it sounds to us move and behave like

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There's some biological creature or animal. They they look like an animal

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They move like an animal. Doesn't mean they are an animal, but uh

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That's that's how we look at them and that helps us

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Delineate what we're looking at in this guy and put it in some

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uh, just kind of gross

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uh

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Organizations where we can then start to break it down and look because when we see something

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One of the challenges too is that these things look different to the naked eye

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Then they do under an eosensor under an ir sensor under a thermal

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Uh under a scope under binos. They look different from different altitudes and ranges

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They also look different from different angles. So we might get something on radar

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For example, and then our eo camera is lined up on the same vector is our radar typically at least in the same quadrant

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Um, we zoom in with the eo camera and we get something on our screen that looks like

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Let's say a cube

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um

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A blue cube let's say i'm not saying that's one of them. Let's say it's a blue cube

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And then okay, now we send a radio call out to our other observation posts and try and point other equipment at it

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Those observation posts are at different elevations and are at different angles sometimes a mile or two away

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They report back seeing something completely different than what is being seen in the radar signature and from the eo camera

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That's co-located with the radar

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We then dispatch a helicopter with a number of other observation

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Equipment on board and try and vector the helicopters close as we can to the target

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And we've been able to get within 200 meters

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At times of targets and we've actually not been able to see anything

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Despite the fact that our tactical operation center is telling us it's right in front of the nose of the helicopter and the

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the

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The operator in the tactical operation center which we call the top

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Actually has us on frame in camera with the object floating right in front of the helicopter and the helicopter in the same frame

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And so they're seeing it they're seeing both the helicopter and the target or the blue cube

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But the pilots in the helicopter don't see anything with the naked eye

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Um and even more interesting than that

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uh our helicopter

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Gets frozen in midair. We've had um

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Even in his recent as last month we deployed the helicopter

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And as we were getting vectored to the target the helicopter stopped moving

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Um blades are turning engines running but the helicopter would not move up

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It would not move forward it would not move left or right and was essentially stuck at

[1:15:03 - 1:15:08] ▶

Um what seems like a barrier that the object itself had set and was like hey don't come any closer

[1:15:08 - 1:15:14] ▶

Stay where you are

[1:15:15 - 1:15:17] ▶

Instruments inside the helicopter specifically the pito static system

[1:15:17 - 1:15:21] ▶

Which is an analog instrument that measures differences in air pressure around the helicopter and different

[1:15:21 - 1:15:28] ▶

Modes of flight though those systems were going crazy. They were just bouncing around

[1:15:28 - 1:15:33] ▶

The helicopter pilot could not push the cyclic stick forward which is the center control stick

[1:15:34 - 1:15:38] ▶

Couldn't raise collective the collective stick was frozen and it was stuck there uh for a couple minutes

[1:15:39 - 1:15:45] ▶

After a couple minutes the helicopter was able to retreat ironically

[1:15:46 - 1:15:50] ▶

So essentially the only direction we were allowed to move if

[1:15:50 - 1:15:53] ▶

If we were stuck there at the will of the target was a way

[1:15:54 - 1:15:57] ▶

It it let us go away, but it didn't let us come any closer

[1:15:58 - 1:16:02] ▶

Um and so you know that experience itself

[1:16:02 - 1:16:05] ▶

I mean there's just so many questions with that um and then the objects a lot of times will disappear and reappear in another quadrant

[1:16:06 - 1:16:14] ▶

Um some of the times they're not visible at all. We might have a

[1:16:15 - 1:16:19] ▶

A certain anomaly or what looked like a glitch in the radar system in a certain quadrant of the sky

[1:16:19 - 1:16:24] ▶

And when we direct the cameras there there's nothing we don't see anything at all

[1:16:25 - 1:16:28] ▶

Uh and then when we go back and we scrub through the video footage

[1:16:29 - 1:16:34] ▶

Frame by frame will go oh my gosh. There's something there. There's something there the tic-tac for example is

[1:16:34 - 1:16:39] ▶

Is famous for this is we don't see it at all

[1:16:40 - 1:16:44] ▶

But we have either through our neural meditators like our psionics will say hey

[1:16:44 - 1:16:48] ▶

I feel this is going to happen. It's going to happen here

[1:16:48 - 1:16:51] ▶

And we just trust them and we point our equipment in that direction

[1:16:51 - 1:16:54] ▶

Nobody sees anything and it at first it looks like you know

[1:16:54 - 1:16:58] ▶

It was a fail

[1:16:58 - 1:16:59] ▶

And then we go back and we scrub through things and we'll see things show up in frame the tic-tac

[1:16:59 - 1:17:05] ▶

Does this to us regularly?

[1:17:05 - 1:17:07] ▶

Uh, um, I think we showed some of this in episode two

[1:17:07 - 1:17:10] ▶

But you'll see the tic-tac appear and sometimes pairs or three or four or maybe it's the same one

[1:17:11 - 1:17:17] ▶

I don't know and it's making quantum leaps in the air um

[1:17:17 - 1:17:20] ▶

But it'll jump around in the frame and so it's moving so quickly that you and it's not making any sound

[1:17:20 - 1:17:27] ▶

You can't see it with the naked eye and also

[1:17:27 - 1:17:30] ▶

The radar that we're using is limited on airspeed

[1:17:31 - 1:17:35] ▶

So if we're getting stuff that moves

[1:17:35 - 1:17:37] ▶

Thousands of miles per hour

[1:17:38 - 1:17:40] ▶

It's also not going to show up on the radar and it's really hard if you can't first get the radar to tell you what direction to look to even know where to point your equipment

[1:17:40 - 1:17:49] ▶

And this is one of the biggest critiques that we get

[1:17:49 - 1:17:52] ▶

Um is how come your imagery is so poor? Well

[1:17:52 - 1:17:56] ▶

There there's a number of reasons one you have to know where to point your

[1:17:57 - 1:18:01] ▶

Your zoomable equipment to begin with and so you start with a broad field of view with either

[1:18:02 - 1:18:08] ▶

Binos or the camera system and then if you can identify a target

[1:18:08 - 1:18:12] ▶

You have to know where to zoom to concentrate those pixels on a particular target to begin with and you can't do that unless you know

[1:18:12 - 1:18:19] ▶

Where it is so a lot of times we're stuck zoomed out almost entirely and then our force to scrub through and post processing and try and zoom in with the

[1:18:19 - 1:18:28] ▶

The editing program, but you're when you do that you're not getting the pixels on target

[1:18:28 - 1:18:33] ▶

You're stuck with the pixels that you have

[1:18:33 - 1:18:35] ▶

Additionally the objects themselves if they are manipulating time and space

[1:18:35 - 1:18:41] ▶

Then there's probably something like a gravity bubble or vacuum around them and if you're dealing with that

[1:18:42 - 1:18:48] ▶

You're dealing with distortion of photons like light is not making its way out of that sphere or if it is

[1:18:48 - 1:18:54] ▶

It's getting distorted and so you might be looking at something that just looks like a colorful like splatter of

[1:18:55 - 1:19:03] ▶

Paint in the sky when really it's a white tic-tac and so when viewed from different angles or under different equipment

[1:19:03 - 1:19:11] ▶

Or at different times during its phase of flight

[1:19:11 - 1:19:13] ▶

You may get one object that look like three different classes of uap

[1:19:14 - 1:19:18] ▶

Which is which is interesting, but it's it's really frustrating when you're then

[1:19:19 - 1:19:23] ▶

trying to share your progress with the rest of the world and

[1:19:24 - 1:19:27] ▶

This is this is all you have to share is this variety of weird things happening in stories and not able to provide

[1:19:29 - 1:19:35] ▶

conclusive

[1:19:36 - 1:19:38] ▶

guesses

[1:19:38 - 1:19:39] ▶

Or well just any type of conclusive evidence is to what it even looks like to begin with

[1:19:39 - 1:19:44] ▶

One the phrase Pandora's box was mentioned a couple times during this conversation and and one of the concerns that I've seen

[1:19:45 - 1:19:52] ▶

Online and when people following your work is that

[1:19:52 - 1:19:55] ▶

We don't really know what this phenomenon is

[1:19:56 - 1:19:59] ▶

Could it be dangerous could there be lasting effects from repeated calling

[1:20:00 - 1:20:05] ▶

Uh, where do you stand on that and what precautions are you guys taking and and what are you looking out for in terms of potential

[1:20:05 - 1:20:13] ▶

dangers or problems that may arise from this

[1:20:13 - 1:20:15] ▶

Great question great question

[1:20:16 - 1:20:18] ▶

uh

[1:20:18 - 1:20:19] ▶

Yeah, there's potential danger historically there have been injuries associated with the phenomenon

[1:20:19 - 1:20:25] ▶

I mean me personally I've I've been exposed to radiation in some form of directed energy a number of times

[1:20:25 - 1:20:32] ▶

And it's not clear to me what the long-term health effects are of that there are a number of other individuals that have had similar experiences

[1:20:32 - 1:20:39] ▶

So we do take precaution with that from

[1:20:40 - 1:20:42] ▶

uh radiological standpoint we do have uh equipment out there which which measures

[1:20:43 - 1:20:49] ▶

um

[1:20:49 - 1:20:51] ▶

radiological signatures in a number of different types from gamma rays and

[1:20:51 - 1:20:56] ▶

um

[1:20:56 - 1:20:58] ▶

I don't remember the other type of radiation it measures

[1:20:58 - 1:21:01] ▶

um, so there's there's more that uh, uh, you know that more

[1:21:01 - 1:21:06] ▶

uh

[1:21:07 - 1:21:08] ▶

physiological

[1:21:08 - 1:21:10] ▶

threat that's there but then

[1:21:10 - 1:21:11] ▶

You know if these are the question comes up a lot especially you know on the more woo-woo side is are these if the if it is non-human intelligence

[1:21:12 - 1:21:20] ▶

And if it is if there are other sentient beings operating or even inside some of this stuff

[1:21:20 - 1:21:26] ▶

What is there intent are they benevolent or are they moe-evolent and whether or not

[1:21:26 - 1:21:31] ▶

benevolent or benevolent nobody really knows and um, you know, that's a risk

[1:21:31 - 1:21:36] ▶

We're all willing to take because we feel

[1:21:37 - 1:21:40] ▶

You know, this is our personal decision, but we feel that frontier has to be explored that question has to be answered

[1:21:42 - 1:21:47] ▶

And it's like we we can't just ignore

[1:21:47 - 1:21:50] ▶

Uh the phenomenon because of that because if their intent is malevolent or benevolent

[1:21:51 - 1:21:56] ▶

Find that out is a strong argument to make rather than just let it exist and um

[1:21:57 - 1:22:02] ▶

Let it uh let it

[1:22:03 - 1:22:05] ▶

Let it do what it wants with us and with uh with our airspace so that question has to be answered um, you know

[1:22:06 - 1:22:13] ▶

Something interesting about or something people might find very interesting about our core group and our mission

[1:22:13 - 1:22:18] ▶

Is that we have an oath we have a a very well thought out and meaningful oath that everyone takes

[1:22:19 - 1:22:25] ▶

Um in its sets intentions for our operation

[1:22:26 - 1:22:28] ▶

Everyone on our team regardless of you know

[1:22:29 - 1:22:32] ▶

I've said before whether regardless of whether you're flying the helicopter or your

[1:22:32 - 1:22:36] ▶

Neural meditator or you're cleaning the sky watch your toilet

[1:22:36 - 1:22:38] ▶

You are held accountable to swearing this oath and that oath is one of

[1:22:39 - 1:22:44] ▶

I won't go into it. It's about 500 words, but we actually sign it and we set those intentions through that oath every morning

[1:22:45 - 1:22:52] ▶

And the oath is very focused on

[1:22:52 - 1:22:55] ▶

Um a number of virtues. I would say humility is first and foremost

[1:22:55 - 1:22:59] ▶

Um a loving

[1:22:59 - 1:23:01] ▶

welcoming disposition

[1:23:02 - 1:23:04] ▶

um and although there are potential threats associated with this

[1:23:04 - 1:23:08] ▶

Uh the biggest biggest risk I say we're taking is that we aren't taking

[1:23:09 - 1:23:13] ▶

Uh an offensive or defensive posture despite the fact that there might be something worthy of being defensive

[1:23:13 - 1:23:19] ▶

Um defensively positioned against um and so that's part of our risk is that we're taking in doing that

[1:23:20 - 1:23:28] ▶

But we feel it's vitally important

[1:23:28 - 1:23:30] ▶

Uh even though there is no proof that there is

[1:23:30 - 1:23:33] ▶

Uh in our effort there is no proof that there is um another sentient being or non human intelligence involved here

[1:23:35 - 1:23:41] ▶

But it is one of the possible outcomes and the last thing we want is to

[1:23:41 - 1:23:46] ▶

Uh

[1:23:47 - 1:23:48] ▶

Is to be someone that acted aggressively against another entity or another form of consciousness

[1:23:48 - 1:23:55] ▶

Yeah, and just speaking from my own research um and relationships outside of sky watcher right like it's it's my understanding or my belief that um

[1:23:57 - 1:24:04] ▶

You know some of these activities that have been you know undertaken by quote-a-quote the legacy programs since maybe you know

[1:24:05 - 1:24:11] ▶

What were two and then some of the nuclear testing that we did um in the 60s

[1:24:12 - 1:24:16] ▶

Um may have like given these sorts of things a bad rep

[1:24:17 - 1:24:20] ▶

Uh right uh and and so like i'm operating on the assumption that

[1:24:20 - 1:24:23] ▶

Uh human beings going out and doing these sorts of experiments from the perspective of NHI

[1:24:24 - 1:24:28] ▶

Like that maybe has seen similar activities, but done within a much more it's a aggressive intention to

[1:24:29 - 1:24:34] ▶

Uh bring objects down

[1:24:35 - 1:24:36] ▶

You know maybe maybe we have to kind of do extra work to like demonstrate that we're different than that

[1:24:36 - 1:24:41] ▶

um

[1:24:41 - 1:24:42] ▶

I mean there was a great interview given by uh

[1:24:42 - 1:24:44] ▶

uh Harold momgren who recently passed away who was a senior advisor to multiple presidents uh on jesse michael's american alchemy podcast not to show another podcast on your podcast

[1:24:45 - 1:24:54] ▶

I love jesse michael's don't worry

[1:24:54 - 1:24:56] ▶

He's great and and and Harold momgren is an individual i i had come to know um he's remarkable individual

[1:24:56 - 1:25:02] ▶

I would encourage folks to watch that um

[1:25:02 - 1:25:04] ▶

Interview of his life and his first person testimony of his um knowledge and experience you know

[1:25:04 - 1:25:10] ▶

Regarding kind of the early history of some of these activities. I mean in particular

[1:25:11 - 1:25:14] ▶

uh, you know nuclear tests that were done in the 60s around the kumil'sra crisis like the blue guillal treble prime test

[1:25:14 - 1:25:20] ▶

Which involved kind of a golden-cased nuclear weapon that generated like a massive x-ray

[1:25:20 - 1:25:25] ▶

pulse that was seen on the test cameras

[1:25:26 - 1:25:29] ▶

Essentially knocking an object out of the sky that was retrieved uh allegedly by by the navy um

[1:25:30 - 1:25:36] ▶

And that that from my supposition

[1:25:36 - 1:25:38] ▶

You know gave certain elements of the military you know intelligent system

[1:25:39 - 1:25:42] ▶

I have hypothesis that uh that they could um start to reproduce which is there are ways of knocking

[1:25:43 - 1:25:48] ▶

These objects out of the sky with high powered microwave or x-ray or other sorts of direct energy weapons um

[1:25:49 - 1:25:54] ▶

And you know that that might have been systematized and operationalized over over many years

[1:25:55 - 1:26:00] ▶

And so from the perspective of n hi there's a bunch of humans running around you know shooting stuff out of the sky um

[1:26:00 - 1:26:06] ▶

And and of course we we uh are very uh clear that we are not doing that uh, we are not shooting anything out of the sky

[1:26:06 - 1:26:13] ▶

Uh, one like it's illegal for us to do that um uh

[1:26:14 - 1:26:18] ▶

Jake can talk about the faFCC authorizations. We're operating under to conduct our flights to conduct our

[1:26:18 - 1:26:23] ▶

Our radar operations, you know, these are things that are sending energy on to the electromagnetic spectrum

[1:26:23 - 1:26:27] ▶

These things are highly regulated activities in the United States

[1:26:27 - 1:26:30] ▶

And so we are very clear that we're staying within our our our legal mandate

[1:26:30 - 1:26:34] ▶

But we also are staying within our ethical mandate to have a peaceful

[1:26:34 - 1:26:37] ▶

um, you know, uh curious uh

[1:26:38 - 1:26:40] ▶

And kind of good faith

[1:26:41 - 1:26:43] ▶

engagement right to have you know uh to approach this whole activity with good intentions and curiosity um

[1:26:43 - 1:26:49] ▶

And uh and and and and openness right fundamentally uh

[1:26:50 - 1:26:54] ▶

And but again like you're deep sea submersibles right like you're going down to the depths rights

[1:26:55 - 1:27:00] ▶

And to go find a i see a novel species of jellyfish lurking 30,000 feet uh under the ocean and

[1:27:00 - 1:27:06] ▶

Uh, there's risk attached with that right uh, you know the jellyfish attacks your your uh

[1:27:07 - 1:27:12] ▶

You're submersible right like does that mean the jellyfish is

[1:27:12 - 1:27:14] ▶

Malevolent? No, it's like you just kind of you you you you poked it right or you showed you you showed a bright light on it and it reacted to you

[1:27:15 - 1:27:21] ▶

um

[1:27:22 - 1:27:23] ▶

So I think these sorts of terms are are our sort of phasology and and clearly like we are doing things

[1:27:23 - 1:27:27] ▶

actively uh to provoke a response and we're trying to study that response but um, you know

[1:27:28 - 1:27:32] ▶

What how we label that and how we interpret that is is a different thing

[1:27:33 - 1:27:35] ▶

Yeah, I think I like the analogy of the ocean as a frontier

[1:27:36 - 1:27:39] ▶

I mean can you imagine

[1:27:39 - 1:27:41] ▶

Being the first person or group of people to stand on a beach looking out at the vast expanse of the great blue ocean and going

[1:27:41 - 1:27:47] ▶

I don't know should we go in like it looks scary like there could be sharks out there

[1:27:48 - 1:27:53] ▶

There could be poisonous jellyfish

[1:27:53 - 1:27:55] ▶

But it's like

[1:27:55 - 1:27:56] ▶

Yeah, there could also be hot mermaids and sunken treasure so

[1:27:56 - 1:27:59] ▶

We need to go like you can't you can't turn your back on it. It's a frontier and

[1:28:00 - 1:28:04] ▶

Because it's because it's there you have to explore it and uh, the good intention thing

[1:28:05 - 1:28:10] ▶

It it has a very practical purpose too like it actually works better

[1:28:12 - 1:28:16] ▶

But uh, and this gets back into you know more of our spiritual side of what we're doing but

[1:28:17 - 1:28:21] ▶

We have proven to ourselves that having something like a loving disposition and uh, having everyone on the team

[1:28:22 - 1:28:30] ▶

Locked in to that as a group

[1:28:31 - 1:28:34] ▶

We have more success in the field when we all are when all of us are oriented to this good-natured loving

[1:28:34 - 1:28:43] ▶

Humble uh disposition and it's funny and it makes me think you know again

[1:28:44 - 1:28:49] ▶

Maybe that's something we prove in addition to prayer is that intent matters intent matters and everything you do in life

[1:28:49 - 1:28:55] ▶

You know, I can imagine that even if we were just contractors showing up at a build site

[1:28:55 - 1:29:00] ▶

We had to frame a house and poor concrete

[1:29:00 - 1:29:02] ▶

If at the beginning of the day all the contractors got together and we formed a circle

[1:29:02 - 1:29:07] ▶

And we set good intentions and we welcomed everyone in and we had

[1:29:07 - 1:29:11] ▶

Loving humble intent that we would probably build a better house

[1:29:12 - 1:29:16] ▶

Um that day then we would

[1:29:17 - 1:29:18] ▶

Having having not done that and so I there's a very practical

[1:29:19 - 1:29:23] ▶

There's a very practical reason. I think for setting those intentions

[1:29:24 - 1:29:28] ▶

Do you think that there's any concern over let's say copycat organizations trying to emulate the work that you guys are doing

[1:29:29 - 1:29:35] ▶

But maybe not up to the same standards or um, you know, maybe not as

[1:29:35 - 1:29:40] ▶

Uh conscious of the risks involved

[1:29:41 - 1:29:43] ▶

Yeah, there are other groups doing this and I'm like I'm all for it man. We we need all hands all brains on deck

[1:29:44 - 1:29:50] ▶

Right now um, I would hope everyone's

[1:29:51 - 1:29:53] ▶

Hope everyone is doing it ethically and is following the same guidelines as us

[1:29:54 - 1:30:00] ▶

But again, the skies are not classified your consciousness cannot be redacted

[1:30:00 - 1:30:04] ▶

It's it's free reign and um the same thing the same reason we're able to do this

[1:30:05 - 1:30:10] ▶

uh

[1:30:10 - 1:30:11] ▶

It's

[1:30:11 - 1:30:12] ▶

Anytime you have you you have freedom in the most fundamental sense of the word

[1:30:12 - 1:30:17] ▶

Um, it's a lot of I think it's consistent with the basis for the argument for x and twitter

[1:30:18 - 1:30:23] ▶

It's like you know for altruistic freedom of speech like be careful what you wish for but ultimately

[1:30:23 - 1:30:29] ▶

It's it's one of the only ways to truly explore the frontier is because it's a slippery slope

[1:30:30 - 1:30:36] ▶

If you start limiting certain individuals or organizations from playing with things

[1:30:36 - 1:30:40] ▶

Well, then you have to establish a basis for or criteria for why some people are allowed and some aren't and that

[1:30:40 - 1:30:47] ▶

You get into a lot of trouble doing that right away because who's to decide who should be excluded and why they should be excluded

[1:30:47 - 1:30:54] ▶

Ultimately, we would like our government agencies and institutions who are paid with our tax dollars and who are voted to

[1:30:54 - 1:31:01] ▶

To have that type of authority would get involved um, but right now

[1:31:02 - 1:31:06] ▶

It's a complete frontier and maybe ultimately

[1:31:07 - 1:31:09] ▶

Once we learn some lessons, you know

[1:31:10 - 1:31:12] ▶

Some of the most valuable lesdans are learn the hard way and I think you know suffering and setbacks seem to be the currency of wisdom

[1:31:14 - 1:31:21] ▶

And because this is such a frontier

[1:31:21 - 1:31:23] ▶

Uh, we almost have to pay our dues and make some mistakes um granted the mistakes that might be made in this work

[1:31:24 - 1:31:32] ▶

Uh could be huge and you know we are we we're not

[1:31:32 - 1:31:37] ▶

We're not moving forward recklessly, but there is a balance between um

[1:31:37 - 1:31:42] ▶

being adventurous and

[1:31:43 - 1:31:46] ▶

persistent and not crossing the line and directlessness and again that to me that goes back to intention and that

[1:31:46 - 1:31:52] ▶

We sure hope intention matters because that's the only real security we have as we venture out

[1:31:52 - 1:31:58] ▶

Uh, at the end of the day with with some of these things

[1:31:59 - 1:32:01] ▶

I've spoken to some remote viewing experts who have said that everybody has some level of

[1:32:02 - 1:32:07] ▶

psychic ability

[1:32:08 - 1:32:09] ▶

Um some were developed than others

[1:32:09 - 1:32:11] ▶

Do you believe that anybody has the potential to be able to attract uap's?

[1:32:11 - 1:32:15] ▶

um

[1:32:16 - 1:32:17] ▶

Let me frame it a little differently. I

[1:32:17 - 1:32:19] ▶

My personal belief is that everybody has what I call a light inside of them

[1:32:19 - 1:32:23] ▶

There's something special about human beings in my mind

[1:32:23 - 1:32:26] ▶

We we are not animals, but we're not gods. We're something in the middle. I think we are a hybrid of beast and benevolence

[1:32:26 - 1:32:34] ▶

um and

[1:32:35 - 1:32:37] ▶

And you can think about it in a number of different ways

[1:32:37 - 1:32:40] ▶

But uh, you know, we're the only creatures on the planet that seem to

[1:32:41 - 1:32:45] ▶

uh really lean into empathy um

[1:32:46 - 1:32:49] ▶

We we have evolved in our capabilities more than any other creature on the planet

[1:32:49 - 1:32:55] ▶

um some other indications

[1:32:55 - 1:32:57] ▶

To me or that you know humor is something that I think is may only exist with within the human species

[1:32:58 - 1:33:05] ▶

um and humor is really uh subset of

[1:33:06 - 1:33:09] ▶

humility and so um we also

[1:33:11 - 1:33:14] ▶

Are the only creatures that seem to understand the fact that our time is limited?

[1:33:15 - 1:33:19] ▶

We're the only creatures that know we will die

[1:33:19 - 1:33:22] ▶

I don't know that other creatures know if they have a sub if they have a

[1:33:22 - 1:33:26] ▶

a subconscious and a more prefrontal low-based consciousness that they're even aware

[1:33:27 - 1:33:32] ▶

That that they're going to die at some day or at some point in their life um at any point either due to old age or

[1:33:33 - 1:33:39] ▶

Perhaps most animals understand that there are certain threats

[1:33:40 - 1:33:43] ▶

uh

[1:33:43 - 1:33:44] ▶

Involve with their day-to-day life as as hunters and prey

[1:33:44 - 1:33:48] ▶

but you know

[1:33:48 - 1:33:50] ▶

Just knowing that we may be the only creatures that are contemplating whether or not there's a god and that I think

[1:33:50 - 1:33:56] ▶

Yeah, I don't know which comes first there the chicken of the egg being the knowledge that your life is limited

[1:33:56 - 1:34:01] ▶

or the um

[1:34:02 - 1:34:04] ▶

The idea that there might be a god or something afterlife, but those two realities um are

[1:34:04 - 1:34:11] ▶

Are coupled together once you realize your life is limited then you're forced to ask well what happens after life and that leads you to

[1:34:11 - 1:34:18] ▶

Some question of to whether or not there's a god or or or some other state of existence

[1:34:19 - 1:34:25] ▶

And I think that light exists in every single human being. I don't think

[1:34:25 - 1:34:28] ▶

Children have to be taught that I think trill at least for me those were things I was contemplating at a very young age regardless of

[1:34:29 - 1:34:36] ▶

you know my family's

[1:34:36 - 1:34:38] ▶

Influencer weekly visits to church and so

[1:34:38 - 1:34:41] ▶

This this also goes back to why um, I've said before that I don't think that

[1:34:42 - 1:34:47] ▶

These discoveries being made public or being adapted into our public culture are going to be an ontological shock

[1:34:48 - 1:34:54] ▶

I think it's going to be an ontological relief

[1:34:54 - 1:34:57] ▶

Because I believe everyone knows that there's some deeper meaning and

[1:34:57 - 1:35:02] ▶

um

[1:35:03 - 1:35:04] ▶

Something

[1:35:04 - 1:35:05] ▶

Beyond our own personal

[1:35:05 - 1:35:08] ▶

perspective or walk through life that's going on and in play and I think it's gonna

[1:35:08 - 1:35:12] ▶

Make people just go oh thank god. There's more to life. Thank god because it it's it be an awfully lonely place

[1:35:14 - 1:35:20] ▶

if

[1:35:22 - 1:35:23] ▶

If you weren't if you weren't embedded in something bigger than yourself and having

[1:35:23 - 1:35:29] ▶

The burden of understanding that at one point in your life you will die

[1:35:29 - 1:35:33] ▶

There's also animals. I don't think have any

[1:35:34 - 1:35:36] ▶

Knowledge of the fact of the past. I don't think they realize they have

[1:35:37 - 1:35:40] ▶

Grandfathers like my dog doesn't know that that

[1:35:41 - 1:35:44] ▶

The dogs have been around for hundreds of years. So no concept of the past or the future

[1:35:45 - 1:35:50] ▶

Makes you a different creature

[1:35:51 - 1:35:53] ▶

Then a creature who understands that there is a past in a future and that the future

[1:35:54 - 1:35:58] ▶

Has in store well

[1:36:02 - 1:36:03] ▶

That there is a death and maybe something beyond and I think that

[1:36:04 - 1:36:07] ▶

Again has to do with that light that exists in every human

[1:36:08 - 1:36:11] ▶

I like the analogy of of the animals and how you know like a you'll give a

[1:36:12 - 1:36:16] ▶

A dog his bowl of food and he'll know that it's food and he'll know that he wants to eat it

[1:36:16 - 1:36:20] ▶

But he doesn't know that it was made in a factory somewhere you know

[1:36:20 - 1:36:23] ▶

Like 18 miles away and that it was delivered by truck and things like that

[1:36:24 - 1:36:28] ▶

And so as humans we're seeing these things in the sky

[1:36:28 - 1:36:31] ▶

How do you go about dealing with the unknown unknowns that are out there that that we just

[1:36:32 - 1:36:38] ▶

Can't fathom at this point

[1:36:38 - 1:36:40] ▶

Yeah, go ahead

[1:36:41 - 1:36:42] ▶

But I just say you can't deal with it

[1:36:43 - 1:36:45] ▶

You're going to have to trust yourself to

[1:36:45 - 1:36:47] ▶

Improvis and adapt and overcome when you're putting that position all we can do is set good intentions

[1:36:47 - 1:36:52] ▶

I think there's both a in in life. There's kind of the practical attitude and there's like the philosophical attitude

[1:36:53 - 1:36:59] ▶

Right everyone kind of

[1:36:59 - 1:37:00] ▶

Code switches right you you have to get through your day and then you're in your practical attitude

[1:37:01 - 1:37:04] ▶

And then you have your moments of reflection when you want to understand you know

[1:37:04 - 1:37:07] ▶

What's really going on right and I think everyone has those moments where you flip in between those different attitudes and

[1:37:08 - 1:37:13] ▶

Um, yeah, I think it's the same for this subject and what what when I have my kind of scientific philosophical attitude

[1:37:14 - 1:37:20] ▶

You know switched on and I think about these questions about

[1:37:20 - 1:37:23] ▶

uh is remote viewing a

[1:37:23 - 1:37:25] ▶

Just a quirk of some um, you know some small subset of of human beings or like a core

[1:37:26 - 1:37:32] ▶

feature of our of our of our nature as conscious beings

[1:37:33 - 1:37:37] ▶

I tend to I tend to move to the latter

[1:37:37 - 1:37:39] ▶

Because I have a certain set of scientific and philosophical

[1:37:40 - 1:37:43] ▶

uh

[1:37:44 - 1:37:46] ▶

Sort of orientation to thinking about consciousness is fundamental

[1:37:46 - 1:37:48] ▶

To to reality uh, and there's a lot of metaphysics and won't go into the you know the philosophy of mine there

[1:37:50 - 1:37:55] ▶

But essentially the structure of causation kind of has two aspects and outside aspect

[1:37:55 - 1:37:59] ▶

We described through physics and an internal aspect that we have kind of the the language of of subjective first person experience to describe

[1:37:59 - 1:38:05] ▶

um, and so human beings are a particular you know

[1:38:06 - 1:38:08] ▶

Complex objects that exist in in reality that evolution has selected to create so we have a four billion year history

[1:38:09 - 1:38:15] ▶

uh kind of uh

[1:38:16 - 1:38:18] ▶

You know evolutionary construction of a really complicated object that we call the human brain

[1:38:18 - 1:38:22] ▶

Uh, and so the human brain has been the you know evolved object through all these different forces and

[1:38:23 - 1:38:28] ▶

If there was a degree of freedom in reality that uh, you know connected to

[1:38:29 - 1:38:33] ▶

This aspect of reality that we call consciousness

[1:38:34 - 1:38:36] ▶

It would be something that evolution would select for right if it provided any sort of advantage

[1:38:36 - 1:38:40] ▶

Right if there was a bit of say phase information in kind of the you know quantum branches of the future

[1:38:40 - 1:38:45] ▶

That could be accessed non locally um or that you could tip you know the probability weights of of exploring one branch of the or or the next

[1:38:45 - 1:38:52] ▶

And your sort of path as an observer, you know taking its way through this

[1:38:53 - 1:38:56] ▶

complicated causal structure

[1:38:57 - 1:38:59] ▶

Then that would be an evolutionary thing to to build in to objects that that are selected for oh

[1:38:59 - 1:39:05] ▶

You know over time

[1:39:05 - 1:39:07] ▶

It would likely mean that what we call intuition right and Louis Luzando and other individuals have you know talked about this is being

[1:39:07 - 1:39:12] ▶

Something that is very prevalent in special operations and intelligence um

[1:39:13 - 1:39:16] ▶

uh

[1:39:17 - 1:39:19] ▶

Personnel that are in high-risk situations that either the government selects for

[1:39:19 - 1:39:23] ▶

Intentionally where they get sort of self-selected

[1:39:23 - 1:39:25] ▶

Or they're in battlefield environments where there's an intense selection pressure on individuals with with such

[1:39:25 - 1:39:31] ▶

Uh abilities you would see that kind of natural kind of latent disposition potentially be more more explicitly manifested

[1:39:32 - 1:39:38] ▶

And so I think that's that's likely you know leads me in the direction to say this is like an inbuilt capability

[1:39:39 - 1:39:43] ▶

Of of any conscious being but human beings are the most kind of you know advanced conscious being that we think exists right

[1:39:44 - 1:39:51] ▶

We have kind of both the lizard brain, you know

[1:39:51 - 1:39:53] ▶

Kind of mammalian

[1:39:55 - 1:39:57] ▶

social kind of

[1:39:57 - 1:39:59] ▶

Attitudes and with you created language we developed this sort of whole stack of conceptual vocabulary

[1:40:00 - 1:40:04] ▶

And we we think we're them you know with a top dog that that might not actually be the case

[1:40:04 - 1:40:08] ▶

But we think so uh at this moment um and uh and so I think this is just a feature of reality right um

[1:40:09 - 1:40:15] ▶

That uh we have to sort of you know sort of reintegrate into a more holistic worldview

[1:40:16 - 1:40:20] ▶

Um, but it also means that yeah, there's maybe more like practical applications associate with that knowledge um

[1:40:21 - 1:40:26] ▶

And I think we're we're just now kind of scratching the surface of of of that uh and this goes back to like

[1:40:27 - 1:40:32] ▶

I know I think this is where a connection between fundamental physics and philosophy have like very practical application

[1:40:32 - 1:40:37] ▶

right? I think

[1:40:37 - 1:40:38] ▶

If you talk to someone in the 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s

[1:40:38 - 1:40:41] ▶

That was paying attention to the frontiers of science

[1:40:42 - 1:40:44] ▶

They would be very very much attuned to like what does fundamental physics say about the world

[1:40:45 - 1:40:49] ▶

But as like a groundbreaking new way of just understanding what the world is

[1:40:49 - 1:40:54] ▶

And then that would immediately then just you know just are at these practical questions

[1:40:54 - 1:40:58] ▶

Oh, man, what can we do with these with this knowledge? What sorts of weapons are we creating right what's the risks that are then presented to society by this knowledge

[1:40:58 - 1:41:05] ▶

And I think uh we sort of lost that um sort of sense of of direct connection between physics and risk in our society

[1:41:06 - 1:41:13] ▶

We sort of see a hint of it coming out of out of like AI like now that we have a new technology bursting on the scene that is

[1:41:13 - 1:41:18] ▶

That is presenting a type of disruption that we haven't seen in in many decades

[1:41:19 - 1:41:23] ▶

These like new connect these new questions are are presenting themselves with with new urgency right what if there is a

[1:41:23 - 1:41:28] ▶

An artificial general intelligence that leads to kind of a self bootstrapping artificial super intelligence that you know becomes you know essentially

[1:41:29 - 1:41:36] ▶

Uh, and a new

[1:41:37 - 1:41:38] ▶

A new entity that may or may not share our values um and the search these sorts of questions about relationship between human beings

[1:41:39 - 1:41:45] ▶

And artificial

[1:41:46 - 1:41:47] ▶

Intelligence is right maybe or analogous to the questions that we're talking about in the relationship between human beings

[1:41:47 - 1:41:52] ▶

And non human intelligences right just like other

[1:41:53 - 1:41:56] ▶

other structures of intelligence and consciousness potentially that uh

[1:41:56 - 1:42:00] ▶

That relate to humans in a way that uh maybe

[1:42:00 - 1:42:03] ▶

Where we are not the top duck right or where we have to integrate into a larger order um and that's that's going to be a very hard

[1:42:04 - 1:42:12] ▶

Process to adjust to um, you know over time and uh yeah, that gets it gets much more you know esoteric

[1:42:13 - 1:42:20] ▶

But uh, I think

[1:42:20 - 1:42:21] ▶

We're on this sort of we're seem to be entering into an era where lots of these

[1:42:21 - 1:42:26] ▶

Disruptions uh to our our mental models and our our social and our political frameworks are are going to be converging

[1:42:27 - 1:42:34] ▶

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if AI at any point becomes

[1:42:35 - 1:42:38] ▶

something that

[1:42:39 - 1:42:41] ▶

We didn't that there wasn't in the ingredients that we put in there like uh

[1:42:41 - 1:42:45] ▶

It's interesting to think about that

[1:42:46 - 1:42:48] ▶

um

[1:42:48 - 1:42:49] ▶

All creators make things in their own image

[1:42:49 - 1:42:52] ▶

So if you think back to just the classical story of god uh the christian god making man in his own image

[1:42:52 - 1:42:58] ▶

Any technology we produce or even artificial intelligence that we're making we're making it in our own image

[1:42:59 - 1:43:05] ▶

So for me it'd be interesting to see if AI involves to anything or there's you know if one plus one is a

[1:43:05 - 1:43:12] ▶

Equal in three at some point like is there something else that AI ends up becoming that wasn't in the

[1:43:12 - 1:43:19] ▶

original ingredients let's say that we put into the cake that is AI that would be

[1:43:19 - 1:43:24] ▶

Something very interesting that might uh that might make us look a little harder at our place in the universe

[1:43:25 - 1:43:33] ▶

And if we are truly something special or for something that um

[1:43:33 - 1:43:37] ▶

That is just a stepping stone to

[1:43:38 - 1:43:41] ▶

The evolution of the universe being aware of itself to begin with

[1:43:42 - 1:43:46] ▶

And I think more practically. I mean sky watcher you know in this near-term is looking to incorporate AI right just for data analysis

[1:43:47 - 1:43:53] ▶

And then also I think in the next year or two maybe sooner, you know these things are moving fast

[1:43:54 - 1:43:59] ▶

You know, I mentioned there's a taboo problem in modern academic science. There's a um

[1:43:59 - 1:44:04] ▶

Uh kind of social uh

[1:44:05 - 1:44:07] ▶

Kind of preference falsification. Well like ais don't have a sense of taboo

[1:44:07 - 1:44:12] ▶

They don't have a sense of the reputation

[1:44:12 - 1:44:14] ▶

They'll just throw their their horse power at a particular query and they'll give you the best answer they can give you

[1:44:14 - 1:44:19] ▶

And and so I think we might see you know as we see a increasing capability

[1:44:20 - 1:44:25] ▶

Um frontier being explored with the ais that they're not just kind of chatbots

[1:44:25 - 1:44:29] ▶

But they actually are helping with scientific discovery pretty soon

[1:44:29 - 1:44:32] ▶

I mean there already are in certain domains

[1:44:32 - 1:44:34] ▶

But where they effectively are helping to kind of advance the frontier

[1:44:34 - 1:44:36] ▶

And they can synthesize all of human knowledge

[1:44:37 - 1:44:40] ▶

Uh and they can just take you know an unbiased you know no peer-grue pressure view of this information and actually help um

[1:44:40 - 1:44:49] ▶

You know generate generate uh inferences that that push our knowledge uh pretty quickly in in in these directions

[1:44:49 - 1:44:56] ▶

So I think that that is a that's just over the horizon

[1:44:56 - 1:44:59] ▶

We're going to be looking at sort of the possibility of ais accelerating scientific research across lots of different domains including in uap's and I think amateur

[1:45:00 - 1:45:08] ▶

researchers in uap's uh with lots of information and knowledge are sort of throwing this into these models

[1:45:09 - 1:45:14] ▶

And just asking you know given given this historical record given these official statements

[1:45:15 - 1:45:20] ▶

Like what's the best explanation and the uap's uh the LMS are just like yeah

[1:45:21 - 1:45:25] ▶

The high confidence conclusion from this data is that there are legacy uap programs that there have been attempts at

[1:45:26 - 1:45:31] ▶

You know crash retrievals and reverse engineering and there are likely are

[1:45:31 - 1:45:34] ▶

novel aspects of physics and propulsion and material science and even you know biological research

[1:45:34 - 1:45:39] ▶

That are associated with those activities and those are just like straightforward inferences from the historical fact pattern

[1:45:40 - 1:45:45] ▶

Right um I think a lot of folks in the you know scientific and academic domains don't even look at that fact pattern

[1:45:45 - 1:45:51] ▶

So don't even try to draw those inferences but the LMS don't don't have those sorts of tabloos

[1:45:51 - 1:45:55] ▶

Um, I think those will those will start to accelerate what what what can be what can be done uh with this with this topic

[1:45:56 - 1:46:01] ▶

And I think we'll also allow the one danger though that I've also seen with the LLMS is

[1:46:02 - 1:46:07] ▶

They are really good at coming up with like a uh

[1:46:08 - 1:46:11] ▶

self-consistent story that

[1:46:11 - 1:46:13] ▶

We'll sort of fit what you throw at it and human beings. We love coherent stories

[1:46:13 - 1:46:17] ▶

We love narratives that kind of pull it all together

[1:46:17 - 1:46:20] ▶

And I think the uapho community in the larger kind of lore has has faced this issue of of sort of battles over different

[1:46:20 - 1:46:27] ▶

interpretations of what's going on and you can you have a whole kind of

[1:46:27 - 1:46:31] ▶

Consolation of different data points and and suggestions and whispers and and you know different things to kind of stitch together and

[1:46:32 - 1:46:38] ▶

puzzle pieces to put put put together and they all they don't all easily fit right

[1:46:38 - 1:46:42] ▶

And so you can kind of you focus on the pieces that you can kind of fit together and you become you know

[1:46:43 - 1:46:47] ▶

Enamored with a particular story or frame of explanation and LLMS are well they could accelerate a lot of fundamental physics research

[1:46:47 - 1:46:54] ▶

Uh in scientific research at the same time

[1:46:54 - 1:46:56] ▶

They'll I think empower a lot of people to kind of create their own narrative

[1:46:57 - 1:47:01] ▶

Explanations of what's going on in a way that's very compelling

[1:47:01 - 1:47:04] ▶

For kind of for their particular way of thinking about these things and there'll be like a lot of difficulty now

[1:47:05 - 1:47:11] ▶

I think of generating more like a consensus social

[1:47:11 - 1:47:14] ▶

Agreement on what what's actually happening? So I can see like two processes play out in the next few years where

[1:47:15 - 1:47:21] ▶

We start to accommodate ourselves to to reality of this of these phenomenon

[1:47:22 - 1:47:26] ▶

As being you know things happening in the world or

[1:47:26 - 1:47:29] ▶

Capabilities associated with human beings, but we don't really understand how to put it all together like what's the master narrative?

[1:47:30 - 1:47:36] ▶

What's the master frame of explanation for all of these things right whether it's legacy programs everything from

[1:47:36 - 1:47:41] ▶

Abduction to remote viewing and you know the history of humanity like all that sort of big existential questions that run from you know

[1:47:42 - 1:47:48] ▶

The span the full gamut right

[1:47:49 - 1:47:51] ▶

Um, and we want to understand at all we want to have a nice you know nice story that kind of makes us feel comfortable about what's happening here

[1:47:51 - 1:47:58] ▶

And all of us will be really good at telling those stories to us and they'll fit all the pieces together

[1:47:59 - 1:48:02] ▶

But they might do many different versions of of very different stories that are compelling to different human beings

[1:48:03 - 1:48:09] ▶

And so I worry that we could have have a sort of still have this distance uh go go forward where as we have more

[1:48:10 - 1:48:16] ▶

Research in the field we get a better handle on the objective data

[1:48:17 - 1:48:20] ▶

We're going to continue to kind of isolate ourselves in our own you know narratives

[1:48:21 - 1:48:24] ▶

Um, and I don't know if I have a grand solution for that, but I do think that one one

[1:48:25 - 1:48:29] ▶

What one mitigating activity is to start now building a broader base of collective seriousness of purpose and professionalization of

[1:48:30 - 1:48:38] ▶

Of uap and sigh and all these other different topics so that there's

[1:48:38 - 1:48:42] ▶

At least a common you know orientation

[1:48:43 - 1:48:45] ▶

Before I went kind of retreats into their L.M. You know hallucinatory stories

[1:48:46 - 1:48:50] ▶

Uh, so that was a bit of a rift, but um, yeah, I think this is where

[1:48:50 - 1:48:54] ▶

There's promise and peril for the path we're on

[1:48:55 - 1:48:57] ▶

Yeah, I don't know this would be a good experiment to run

[1:48:58 - 1:49:00] ▶

But if we ever get to a point where we're wondering if AI has become conscious

[1:49:00 - 1:49:03] ▶

Love put it next to the random number generator and ask it to run a

[1:49:04 - 1:49:08] ▶

A neural meditative protocol and see if the AI piece of equipment

[1:49:09 - 1:49:12] ▶

Can get the random number generator to generate an anomaly

[1:49:13 - 1:49:16] ▶

You know, there's an experiment maybe right there um

[1:49:16 - 1:49:20] ▶

Just to kind of segue, you know one of the things

[1:49:20 - 1:49:23] ▶

Uh, when we talk about NHI

[1:49:23 - 1:49:25] ▶

um

[1:49:27 - 1:49:28] ▶

It might be and there are some

[1:49:28 - 1:49:30] ▶

There is some information from historic data and legacy programs if we want to call it that

[1:49:32 - 1:49:37] ▶

That says that what we're seeing might be something might be AI might actually be biological AI

[1:49:38 - 1:49:44] ▶

And that gets pretty close to human

[1:49:45 - 1:49:47] ▶

There's there's a reason people like David grush

[1:49:47 - 1:49:50] ▶

uh

[1:49:51 - 1:49:52] ▶

Chose his words very carefully when talking about uh, what was recovered when he's like yeah

[1:49:52 - 1:49:57] ▶

There were bodies and we have bodies

[1:49:57 - 1:49:59] ▶

But he called them biologics. He didn't call them creatures or humans or aliens or anything else

[1:49:59 - 1:50:04] ▶

Because one of the potential outcomes might be that um

[1:50:04 - 1:50:08] ▶

Bodies or beings that have been recovered in the past were something like

[1:50:08 - 1:50:14] ▶

Uh, biological technology or artificial biological technology like like left meat to

[1:50:15 - 1:50:21] ▶

um to coin a phrase or um

[1:50:22 - 1:50:25] ▶

Biological robots and that would be an interesting thing if you could upload AI

[1:50:26 - 1:50:31] ▶

And give it a piece of equipment that was a

[1:50:32 - 1:50:34] ▶

biological

[1:50:35 - 1:50:36] ▶

Piece of equipment is opposed to you know nuts and bolts

[1:50:36 - 1:50:39] ▶

I know that we're pretty much out of time and i don't want to keep you guys for too long

[1:50:40 - 1:50:43] ▶

But i if i could just leave you with one final question

[1:50:43 - 1:50:46] ▶

I'm curious to know what you both think is the worst case scenario and best case scenario for the future of sky watcher

[1:50:46 - 1:50:52] ▶

Well, one of the things that would be disheartening is if we

[1:50:53 - 1:50:56] ▶

Had to stop doing it because we ran out of money or min and black showed up

[1:50:57 - 1:51:01] ▶

And told us to stop doing what we were doing but that hasn't happened yet

[1:51:01 - 1:51:04] ▶

uh one of the best case scenario is that um

[1:51:05 - 1:51:08] ▶

And i'll i'm really high here just and i would say that

[1:51:09 - 1:51:12] ▶

The scientific discoveries if we can get to level six on all fronts in our framework that we might have discoveries that um

[1:51:13 - 1:51:22] ▶

Have an impact not only for the united states but the entire world that could put an end to unnecessary suffering

[1:51:23 - 1:51:30] ▶

You know suffering seems to be or a certain amount of struggle does seem to be the currency of wisdom and the mechanism by which we grow

[1:51:31 - 1:51:39] ▶

Not only physically but spiritually and socially and um but there does seem to be something like unnecessary suffering which

[1:51:39 - 1:51:48] ▶

You could call evil and if

[1:51:49 - 1:51:51] ▶

Our our discoveries on the consciousness side of things and on the nuts and bolts

[1:51:52 - 1:51:57] ▶

The side of things when we look at technology and hardware or the advancements of physics if we can

[1:51:58 - 1:52:03] ▶

Um in a very short amount of time

[1:52:04 - 1:52:07] ▶

put an absolute in to unnecessary

[1:52:07 - 1:52:10] ▶

Suffering and evil that would be the ultimate goal um because right now i think the majority of our problem that leads to war

[1:52:11 - 1:52:20] ▶

Um that we don't seem to be

[1:52:21 - 1:52:23] ▶

Out of is a competition for resources, you know this we're on this planet there are limited resources and ultimately that's at the root

[1:52:23 - 1:52:32] ▶

Um of our

[1:52:33 - 1:52:35] ▶

conflict we're all battling for food we're all battling for

[1:52:35 - 1:52:38] ▶

Power we're all battling for mates in the survival of our children and when when there are multiple tribes

[1:52:39 - 1:52:46] ▶

That are hunting the same herd and trying to dwell on the same plot of ground

[1:52:46 - 1:52:51] ▶

And there isn't enough ground or

[1:52:52 - 1:52:53] ▶

Or meet to harvest from the herds for all the tribes and all its members you're left with

[1:52:54 - 1:53:00] ▶

um

[1:53:00 - 1:53:01] ▶

The propensity for war and so some of this technology hypothetically

[1:53:01 - 1:53:05] ▶

Like zero-point energy um or if it can get us off planet. I mean the universe is is

[1:53:06 - 1:53:13] ▶

Pretty much infinite so if we could get to other planets

[1:53:13 - 1:53:17] ▶

Um and that would provide more resources

[1:53:17 - 1:53:20] ▶

And

[1:53:21 - 1:53:22] ▶

Yeah, that would be that would be the ultimate goal matt do you have something different or less crazy to say

[1:53:22 - 1:53:28] ▶

No, I think those are good. I guess i'll sort of bound mine a bit more uh

[1:53:28 - 1:53:31] ▶

More kind of on sky watcher in from my perspective just in terms of worst case scenario is like

[1:53:32 - 1:53:38] ▶

If we if we miscalibrate expectations and outcomes like so much so that um

[1:53:39 - 1:53:45] ▶

That uh, I mean sky watchers the first to try to do this at scale with the amount of effort

[1:53:46 - 1:53:50] ▶

There's lots of other really good individuals with their equipment taking taking um

[1:53:50 - 1:53:55] ▶

In good data and doing good analysis

[1:53:56 - 1:53:58] ▶

But I think this sort of dog whistle approach getting this sort of large scale field operations and getting you know

[1:53:58 - 1:54:04] ▶

This is a serious serious amount of money being spent if it if it falls flat right if it's sort of completely miscalibrates

[1:54:04 - 1:54:11] ▶

Expectations and outcomes is there going to be someone

[1:54:11 - 1:54:13] ▶

Motivated to do this again, right and as and and is that sort of poison the well or does it kind of delay

[1:54:14 - 1:54:20] ▶

What will otherwise potentially be um again that bridge being built between

[1:54:20 - 1:54:24] ▶

Between parts of the government and the private sector and the larger civil society on this

[1:54:26 - 1:54:30] ▶

Oh, so that's that's the risk i mean the worst case there is essentially we set things back right um because we you know

[1:54:31 - 1:54:38] ▶

Drill all this attention and we basically just completely you know rugged everyone right um that would be that would be a failure mode

[1:54:38 - 1:54:44] ▶

I think the best case scenario

[1:54:45 - 1:54:47] ▶

Um as opposed to these maybe civilizational transformation things that that could be downstream of

[1:54:47 - 1:54:51] ▶

Of a kind of an open discovery and disclosure process um for me like a a necessary precondition for all of that is

[1:54:51 - 1:54:59] ▶

Essentially civil society kind of waking up to this subject in a per in a serious and professional way

[1:54:59 - 1:55:04] ▶

I mean

[1:55:04 - 1:55:05] ▶

My whole bit uh for a number of years now has just kind of you know going out in the limb and being like

[1:55:05 - 1:55:10] ▶

I think this is real

[1:55:10 - 1:55:11] ▶

I think this is happening and there's a lot of very serious people that are aware of this

[1:55:11 - 1:55:14] ▶

But I look around at my professional colleagues and peers and there's still the sneers and the sneakers and just the you know kind of

[1:55:15 - 1:55:22] ▶

Anxiety about being laughed at I think that's that's an absurd thing that is in process of of of shifting

[1:55:22 - 1:55:28] ▶

But it hasn't accreted into I'd say collective institutional action

[1:55:28 - 1:55:32] ▶

Um or organizational

[1:55:33 - 1:55:35] ▶

Uh priority you know sort of priorities uh being being being shifted and I think you when you see that happen

[1:55:35 - 1:55:41] ▶

That to me is the sign of progress uh where sky watch could potentially act as a catalyst

[1:55:41 - 1:55:46] ▶

For other individuals in in the government outside the government in other institutions academics think tanks nonprofits

[1:55:46 - 1:55:54] ▶

new uh you know

[1:55:55 - 1:55:57] ▶

new public private new private sector initiatives right new

[1:55:57 - 1:56:00] ▶

venture capital investments new new um technological paradigms being being invested in

[1:56:01 - 1:56:07] ▶

new research initiatives in frontier physics like these things need to get started

[1:56:07 - 1:56:12] ▶

But folks that kind of need to be given that sort of uh that sort of waterswarm umbrella

[1:56:13 - 1:56:19] ▶

coverage that yeah there's like a there there

[1:56:19 - 1:56:21] ▶

um you know and this is like frontier frontier research

[1:56:22 - 1:56:25] ▶

uh you know there's in in venture capital world there's kind of like sass businesses that you invest in

[1:56:26 - 1:56:31] ▶

That's kind of just like what's your tam right what's your you know what's your team?

[1:56:31 - 1:56:35] ▶

What's your what's your product market fit? Okay, I hear some money

[1:56:35 - 1:56:38] ▶

Then there's like deep tech research uh so there's like deep tech VC investing

[1:56:38 - 1:56:41] ▶

Which is okay you basically de-resks um some of the basic science

[1:56:41 - 1:56:45] ▶

But there's some technical and engineering problems you need to work out you need to develop this new radar this new sensor this new material

[1:56:45 - 1:56:51] ▶

And you know get to that step and then if you have breakthroughs then you can get um get some product market fit

[1:56:52 - 1:56:57] ▶

We're in sort of frontier tech where like uh

[1:56:58 - 1:57:00] ▶

There's the basic science is still not there right we still don't understand what the science of uap's really are at least in the public domain

[1:57:00 - 1:57:06] ▶

So you need to kind of you know

[1:57:06 - 1:57:08] ▶

Uh do a lot of

[1:57:08 - 1:57:10] ▶

intellectual archaeology to like you know on on earth what's really going on uh

[1:57:10 - 1:57:14] ▶

In the in these fields and then those could unlock a lot of different possibilities

[1:57:15 - 1:57:19] ▶

That could transform society in very positive ways um if they're properly probably managed um

[1:57:19 - 1:57:25] ▶

That's like the promise of sky watcher in my in my view is uh

[1:57:25 - 1:57:28] ▶

You know actually that little that little catalyst right that sort of that that meme of the domino right

[1:57:28 - 1:57:33] ▶

It's like the little domino falls and then you know like basically jake barber meets a few people a bunch of his buddies

[1:57:33 - 1:57:38] ▶

Go out into the desert with some trucks and some radar like that's like the first domino and then like

[1:57:38 - 1:57:42] ▶

Dada dada dada right we we get like you know we all the forever

[1:57:42 - 1:57:45] ▶

Is

[1:57:45 - 1:57:47] ▶

Well yeah to me and make no mistake. I should have I could have been

[1:57:47 - 1:57:50] ▶

The less lofty with my answer that question

[1:57:51 - 1:57:53] ▶

But I don't think it's been said here, but it's important our our number one goal that's on paper is material recovery

[1:57:53 - 1:57:59] ▶

We want to get our hands on exotic material and we want to do that in a legal and ethical way

[1:57:59 - 1:58:04] ▶

Uh, and so that's that's the best case scenario for scenario right now as far as our business plan goes

[1:58:04 - 1:58:10] ▶

Is to yeah stuff in the sky school

[1:58:10 - 1:58:12] ▶

But we would love an opportunity to invite something to land or get a donation whatever you call it

[1:58:12 - 1:58:17] ▶

We want to get exotic material because then that that really starts

[1:58:17 - 1:58:21] ▶

Now we have something that

[1:58:22 - 1:58:25] ▶

Basically ushers in the revolution of scientific study when it comes to this stuff something that is in a quantity

[1:58:25 - 1:58:31] ▶

Enough that it can be shared with everyone and start with that starts over a whole another

[1:58:31 - 1:58:36] ▶

Frontier right there when we have something tangible in hand in the form of

[1:58:37 - 1:58:41] ▶

Material that can be researched by everyone

[1:58:42 - 1:58:45] ▶

But there's also that you know

[1:58:46 - 1:58:48] ▶

It's my understanding. It's my belief that you know certain parts of human institutions have access to these materials

[1:58:48 - 1:58:54] ▶

But they're extremely well protected and they're how they can part mentalized and very very very tight clusters of researchers have been

[1:58:54 - 1:59:01] ▶

able to access them for scientific study but mostly of you towards maybe their military application or

[1:59:01 - 1:59:07] ▶

Scientific understanding that's kept very close to the chest

[1:59:07 - 1:59:10] ▶

So fundamentally it's okay. You can either if you believe that those materials exist

[1:59:10 - 1:59:14] ▶

You kind of have two two tracks you either try to convince the government to like

[1:59:14 - 1:59:17] ▶

broaden access to those materials

[1:59:18 - 1:59:20] ▶

Right in fact even

[1:59:20 - 1:59:21] ▶

legislation from the Senate said like in order to mitigate the possibility of historic

[1:59:21 - 1:59:25] ▶

Sorry in order to mitigate the possibility of foreign technology surprise

[1:59:25 - 1:59:29] ▶

The US government was broadened awareness of historic exotic technology antecedents

[1:59:29 - 1:59:34] ▶

Previously provided by the federal government for research and development purposes

[1:59:35 - 1:59:38] ▶

This was a statement written into legislation by the Senate

[1:59:38 - 1:59:41] ▶

Which basically strongly indicates that there are historic exotic technology antecedents that had been provided by the federal government

[1:59:42 - 1:59:49] ▶

For research and development purposes by some entities

[1:59:49 - 1:59:52] ▶

I'm not aware of that research you know in the public domain. I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist

[1:59:53 - 1:59:57] ▶

So you either try to give it to the government to broaden the circle and make that more transparent to

[1:59:58 - 2:00:03] ▶

Our our best and our brightest

[2:00:04 - 2:00:06] ▶

To get get signed to big and technological

[2:00:06 - 2:00:08] ▶

breakthroughs

[2:00:09 - 2:00:11] ▶

So that's one track sort of create like a bridge and a channel for some of the information and knowledge to be shared

[2:00:11 - 2:00:16] ▶

Those materials to be shared in a much more transparent and public private kind of collaborative fashion or

[2:00:16 - 2:00:22] ▶

You know

[2:00:22 - 2:00:24] ▶

Gather gather your own material and in a safe and ethical manner and then create your own

[2:00:24 - 2:00:28] ▶

You know private institution to bring in

[2:00:28 - 2:00:30] ▶

You know other elements of civil society to to study and drive those

[2:00:31 - 2:00:35] ▶

You know R&D breakthroughs and then you know that sounds fantastical to someone who you know doesn't

[2:00:36 - 2:00:40] ▶

Doesn't have that prior elevated, but at least I've come to the view that that is not a fantastical proposition

[2:00:40 - 2:00:45] ▶

And is now something it like needs to be like seriously, you know

[2:00:46 - 2:00:49] ▶

Built torts

[2:00:50 - 2:00:52] ▶

And both on the kind of the legislative side as well as in the sort of you know private sector scourge or side

[2:00:52 - 2:00:57] ▶

So that's that that would be kind of this you know zero to one thing right

[2:00:57 - 2:01:00] ▶

And so you know you could have you know no progress that then all of a sudden you're in a different ballgame

[2:01:00 - 2:01:04] ▶

And you need to you know properly prepare for that

[2:01:06 - 2:01:08] ▶

And put in place the right mechanisms and the people and the the approaches to to make it successful

[2:01:08 - 2:01:13] ▶

It looks like the future is going to be very interesting

[2:01:13 - 2:01:15] ▶

Gentlemen and Matt and Jake thank you so much for your time

[2:01:16 - 2:01:19] ▶

I really love the work that you've been doing with Skywatcher

[2:01:19 - 2:01:21] ▶

I can't wait to see it continue continue to unfold as I know many of our viewers are

[2:01:21 - 2:01:25] ▶

And I hope that we get a chance to speak again when you've done even more work and and have

[2:01:26 - 2:01:30] ▶

Have more results to reveal and share with everybody

[2:01:31 - 2:01:33] ▶

You got it. Thank you for having us

[2:01:34 - 2:01:36] ▶

Thanks for being open to these type of conversations

[2:01:36 - 2:01:38] ▶

I think it's super important. So I'm happy to do it. It's great to it's fascinating to have these talks with with you guys

[2:01:39 - 2:01:44] ▶

All right

[2:01:46 - 2:01:47] ▶

Take care everybody bye

[2:01:47 - 2:01:49] ▶

You

[2:02:00 - 2:02:03] ▶