Transcript: The CIA Scientist Who Built UFOs Before Bob Lazar (Townsend Brown Documentary)

The student of Einstein and famed Harvard physicist who towards the end of his life admitted to UFO researcher William Steinman that the rumors surrounding UFO crashes are substantially correct.

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In fact, modern UFO whistleblower David Grush has publicly stated that Robert Sarbacher helped set up UFO secrecy.

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Sarbacher, somebody purportedly involved in the standup of the stuff that I uncovered, right?

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Brown's 1953 Winter Haven proposal almost exactly resembles how all insiders describe America's secret UFO program.

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No one has the whole puzzle or an image of the whole puzzle, but they have pieces.

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The whole thing was set up to be that way.

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Previously, the Townsend Brown fan club has been relegated to obscure forums on the dark corners of the internet.

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Townsend Brown's like potato chips.

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You just can't stop.

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But just last year, far more concrete details have emerged about Brown's life, thanks to Paul Shatzkin, the author of Brown's amazing new biography, The Man Who Mastered Gravity.

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Why do you think these people spoke to you?

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Now we're getting some interesting territory.

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The story is a vindication of Brown, a resounding defense of his work.

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One that points to a new paradigm of science that was proven experimentally and witnessed by the highest levels of American government, just to get sequestered, obfuscated, and go into deep black aerospace.

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And if you're interested in Bob Lazar, I'd say Brown's work even provides a better explanation of the whole Bob Lazar story than Bob Lazar himself.

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But we'll get into that later.

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I knew that he wasn't the crank that wanted to go play with pineapples and electroculture.

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I also learned from Townsend Brown's daughter, Linda, that the inventor would constantly speak of biblical UFOs and aliens behind closed doors and with his family.

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He was also genuinely obsessed with time travel.

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I think he buried a lot of how humans were going to react when they finally had to grow up and accept the fact that they're not alone.

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My new friend, Jan Lundquist, an absolute research prodigy with an eidetic memory, also sits down with me.

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I may be the world's expert on Townsend Brown.

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You might know more than anybody in the world.

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I might.

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All of this stuff, which was being looked at 60 years ago, is still really cutting edge up.

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I also speak with Nick Cook, famed aviation journalist and author of The Hunt for Zero Point.

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Cook spent decades speaking to physicists, titans of aerospace, even multiple presidents of skunkworks, studying the history of aerospace's interest in antigravity.

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And finally, I get to grill a Navy scientist who holds a deep understanding of the fundamental and theoretical implications of Brown's work, but cannot reveal his identity for fear of reprisals.

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And the reactor will need to be able to put out perhaps 50 million watts.

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So without further ado, hit subscribe and prepare to take a stroll down the rabbit hole with this week's American alchemist, the godfather of American dark science, and the original UFO architect, Thomas Townsend Brown.

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Different parts of the brain have different activities.

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But you know that, don't you?

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Maybe you should interview me.

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Given that we're about to cover some fairly dangerous subjects, like a century-long government antigravity and UFO cover-up, I would like to make the public disclaimer that I'm actually the happiest and healthiest I've ever been and do not wish to do any harm to myself.

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And now, Townsend Brown.

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Thomas Townsend Brown was born in Zanesville, Ohio in 1905 to a wealthy family.

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As a child, he would electrocute the soil with charged rods so worms would come to the surface.

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It's those sorts of stories just pattern match so much for me for like this prodigious inventor type.

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He was touted as Zanesville's second Edison by the local papers when he made his first wireless telegraph at 12 years old.

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And like Edison and Einstein, he did poorly in school, earning mediocre grades in all subjects except physics and history, where he effortlessly earned A's.

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He was an autodidact, and he learned what he wanted to learn.

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From a young age, Brown dreamed of interstellar travel and alien contact.

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Paul Shatzkin documents an intimate exchange Townsend had on a sailboat with his soon-to-be wife, Josephine.

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Someday, men will travel in space just as easily as we are sailing now.

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Great ships will silently push away from Earth, just as easy as the sailboat pushed away from the dock.

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To go back to the very beginning in the Townsend Brown story, he was a student, and I think this might have been when he was at Caltech, when they were doing experiments with Crookes X-ray tubes.

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And what he observed was that when a high voltage was applied to the Crookes tube, he noticed that the wire conducting the voltage jumped.

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The Bifield-Brown effect is an anomalous physics principle at the heart of this story, and it also invites the most controversy.

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The basic experiment involves placing a neutral insulator, or dielectric, between two metal plates, one positively charged and the other negative.

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For greater thrust, the positive plate should be smaller than the negative plate.

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So the whole system is called an asymmetric capacitor because of the different plate sizes.

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When a high direct current in the megavolt range is applied to the system, the negative plate starts to chase the positive plate.

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This happens even if the positive plate is placed skywards.

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In other words, the negative to positive thrust seems to beat gravity.

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Many institutions and people have tried to either downplay or falsify Brown's experiments.

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For example, in 1990, the Air Force tested a Bifield-Brown experiment in a vacuum, but they only used 19 kilovolts instead of the megavoltage Brown was using.

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One of the things that seems to be a consistent theme through all of the various steps in Brown's life is the need for extremely high voltages at extremely low currents.

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Besides using laughably low voltage, the other way people have historically written Brown off is by saying that the thrust created by the system is simply a product of ion wind pressure.

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But in 1956, Jacques Corneon, a French Air Force officer and technical representative for one of France's largest aircraft companies, Sued West, facilitated Brown's experiments in a vacuum in the Montgolfier facility in Paris.

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I think he was OSS. I think he was a French-Canadian heritage. His father was an antiques dealer named Louis out of Montreal.

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Shatzkin actually met Jacques Corneon in April of 2008 in Pennsylvania, right before he died.

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Still fully lucid, the 98-year-old French aerospace veteran confirmed the Montgolfier report's findings and the bizarre anomalous effect he witnessed with Brown's, an effect that flew in the face of conventional science.

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The tests were very, very, very, very tricky. It was sensitive to so, so many things in vacuum. Finally, it worked. So that was a positive result.

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As Brown said after the experiment himself, in short, it appears there is strong evidence that the Bifield-Brown effect does exist in the negative to positive direction in a vacuum of at least 10 to the negative 6th torr.

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The residual thrust is several orders of magnitude larger than the remaining ambient ionization can account for.

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That's basically just a fancy way of reiterating that Brown believed he had figured out a possible link between electromagnetism and gravity, and that the thrusts he witnessed with his charged disks were far greater than what could be explained away by ionic wind.

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The people in France are writing to Jacques, and they're saying, we're inviting so-and-so to see a demonstration.

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Well, each of those demonstrations was a level higher, which indicates they're getting some reaction.

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What types of people?

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They're getting some Ministry of Science, General such and such.

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The last one was the French atomic energy, whatever their atomic energy name was.

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But Jacques Cournion and his French contemporaries are just the first of five incredibly reliable witnesses.

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The second reliable witness to Townsend Brown's experiments is Agnew Bonson, air conditioning magnate and anti-gravity and physics patron out of University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

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And Bonson writes in his notes that there's something going on here that we're unable to account for.

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From a 1971 Australian intelligence memo often cited by UFO whistleblower David Grush, we basically now know that Bonson and his Institute of Field Physics at North Carolina, Chapel Hill, were just academic satellites of the CIA tasked with studying anti-gravity.

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Bonson talks about anomalous phenomena that happen when you get into extremely high voltages at extremely low currents.

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While serving as a patron for Townsend Brown's experimental gravity work, Bonson holds the 1957 Chapel Hill Conference, the goal of which was to bring together the world's top theoretical physicists to understand gravity.

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Bonson talks about the two families, which is a confluence of the two families, the Wittens and the DeWitts, with Feynman and Wheeler and all of these unbelievable characters and attendants.

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Coincidentally, the whole conference is sponsored by Wright Airfield.

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That's right, what became Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and the place that is perhaps the epicenter of all UFO mythology starting with Roswell.

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As Eric Weinstein and others have noted, the Chapel Hill Conference ends up sending academic theoretical physics into a complete dead-end cul-de-sac by establishing quantum gravity, which leads to string theory,

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the Sisyphean academic framework that has basically led to no empirical results since the 70s.

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String theory was a very odd development because it both allowed physics to proceed as if it was doing something new while breaking no new ground in the physical world in which we live.

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I don't really know if you were trying to stagnate the field. String theory is pretty brilliant.

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But why would you try to stagnate physics? Maybe because in the 40s and 50s, physics was leading to increasingly catastrophic death weapons.

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Maybe the physicists at Chapel Hill were engaging in self-sabotage with quantum gravity. Or maybe they were putting safety guardrails on academic physics.

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But perhaps the most fascinating clue to where the real vital off the books physics went is dropped by Eric Weinstein in a conversation he has with Joe Rogan about the Chapel Hill Conference.

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He says that an Austrian mathematician named Hermann Bondy brings up positivity conditions placed on general relativity that may artificially exclude an anomalous anti-gravitic effect involving negative mass.

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In fact, I have the report from the 1957 Chapel Hill Conference. It's called The Role of Gravitation in Physics.

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And there's even a chapter dedicated to Hermann Bondy's talk on negative mass and general relativity.

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If you have two masses in general, they always attract each other gravitationally.

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But what if somehow you had a different kind of mass that was negative, just like you could have negative and positive charges?

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Oddly, the negative mass is still attracted just the same way to the positive mass as if there was no difference.

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But the positive mass is always repelled. So you get this weird solution where the negative mass chases the positive mass.

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And they go off to like, you know, unbounded acceleration.

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Remember, in relativity, you have mass energy equivalence.

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And if you just swap out mass and replace it with energy in what Weinstein is saying here, you have an exact description of Townsend Brown's work.

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The negative mass chases the positive mass.

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The negative electrode moves toward the positive electrode.

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So if you were to remove relativity's positivity conditions, you may provide a plausible theoretical framework for Townsend Brown's work.

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And remember, Townsend Brown was working with Bonson while the Chapel Hill Conference was being held.

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And according to author Paul LaViolette, Brown was even at the conference.

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I can just picture the spooky renegade inventor popping into the conference and laughing at the high and mighty theoretical physicists groping in the dark at solutions for anti-gravity while he's doing the real, vital experimental work in the back lab.

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Weinstein then goes on to say something that I find just as fascinating.

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The highbrow version of this doesn't work.

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And the lowbrow version of this doesn't work so far as we know.

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The lowbrow version is called electrogravitics, gravity dynamics.

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Electrogravitics was basically a term invented around Townsend Brown's work.

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But how do we know the lowbrow, applied version of anti-gravity, Townsend Brown's electrogravitics, wasn't actually effective yet strategically stigmatized because of its defense implications?

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Especially if these artificial positivity conditions in general relativity are used to explain away other anomalous effects involving negative mass.

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My take here is that lowbrow terms like electrogravitics were basically used to stigmatize more vital, exciting, off-the-books physics.

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That way the public and academia wouldn't investigate it.

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Does our government have a protocol to wield stigma as a tool for keeping its programs secret? Is the government a source?

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Certainly there are parts of the government who consider that to be their job.

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I'm friends with a SpaceX veteran and he told me that when SpaceX was just starting out,

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Boeing and Lockheed Martin would always use the term rocket science to make rockets seem more esoteric than they were and to demotivate new entrants like SpaceX.

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Was the same thing basically going on with electrogravitics?

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The next credible witness of Townsend Brown's work is a guy named Victor Bertrandius, a major general in the Air Force who helped negotiate the Japanese surrender in World War II,

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and worked with Colonel Albert Boyd who ran the Air Force's flight test division at again Wright Airfield.

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Bertrandius paid an unannounced visit to a demo of Brown's Gravitator at the Townsend Brown Foundation in 1952.

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After witnessing the demo, he said,

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Believe it or not, I saw a model of a flying saucer. I thought I should report it.

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There was a lot of objection to my getting in there by the party that took me.

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And the thing frightened me. Frightened me for the fact that it is being held or conducted by a private group.

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If it ever gets away, I say that it is in the stage in which atomic development was in the early days.

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The fourth credible witness is Paul Alpert Byfield, the Ohio-based physicist who had studied alongside Einstein in the 20s.

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He came up with the idea for using capacitors in Brown's experiments.

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He has a discussion with Byfield about what might be an instrument for inducing a gravitational field if that could be done with electricity.

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And Byfield says, I think it might be a capacitor. So that's the origin. That's why he calls it the Byfield Brown effect.

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Because he's giving credit to Byfield for that part of the inspiration.

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But detractors like to claim that Brown and Byfield never met.

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You see a lot of people trying to play down his interactions with Robert Milliken at Caltech.

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And then Paul Byfield, they say he never met Paul Byfield.

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And then this affidavit comes out later, Paul Byfield definitely met Towns and Brown.

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Right. It's the first time we have an objective observer saying that there is some anomalous effect here that is unaccounted for in conventional known physics.

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And that document is signed by Paul Halford Byfield.

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The final credible witness is none other than Edward Teller, the father of the American hydrogen bomb,

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who observed Brown's experiment at his home in Berkeley with Brown's daughter Linda and Teller's wife Augusta present.

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Teller was completely dumbstruck by Brown and his demo.

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And he looks at it and finally he said, I don't understand how it works.

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And he says, I have no idea what makes this work.

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So there we are in the realm of this anomalous electrical effect that no more personage than Edward Teller couldn't understand.

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And his wife, Linda, who's Townsend's daughter, says, you don't know how nice it is to hear him say that.

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Exactly.

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And then there's a 1943 FBI file on Brown that Shatzkin has recently surfaced.

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It says that Brown knew more about radar detection than any individual in the US Navy.

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I'm not saying that competence in radar proves his gravity manipulation experiments worked.

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But I am saying that the idea that Brown was a failed hack quickly dissolves upon doing a little research.

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When Shatzkin tries to use the Freedom of Information Act to retrieve Brown's records from the Navy,

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they repeatedly play dumb at first and act like they aren't even aware of a man with that name in the Navy.

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They're basically saying, well, this is strange. We can't seem to find his records anywhere.

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Then when Shatzkin provides them with 20 plus letters between Brown and the research laboratory, they deny his request.

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When Townsend's daughter, Linda Brown, makes the same request, citing a special clause that family service requests have to be honored,

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they first give her the records of the wrong Townsend Brown, a naval commander.

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I'm sitting with all this information and they're trying to tell me he didn't exist.

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And then give her a very slim, clearly edited version of her father's service.

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They hint to her that a lot of Townsend Brown's work was classified.

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Not only classified, but we can't tell you if it's classified.

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Yeah.

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When Tom Vallone of the Integrity Research Institute tried to locate a copy of an appraisal of Brown's experiments conducted in 1952 by the Naval Research Laboratory,

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the laboratory no longer had it. The paper was called the T.T. Brown Electrogravity Device.

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And so now we can discount it. Nothing to see here.

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Right.

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And I find out he wasn't the crank that he's been labeled.

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The Quadra and the GP.

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So why exactly did Brown have such a quacky reputation, his work getting completely stigmatized?

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Maybe it's because he wanted it that way.

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You see, in 1950, during a demo in Pearl Harbor, Brown's work was compromised by a Soviet spy acting as a janitor.

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Brown was so disconcerted that from that point on, he began showing people the wrong version of his work to throw them off the trail on the real science underlying it.

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Brown then engages on his own self-discrediting campaign to divert attention from the work that was taken into the Black Realm.

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This trick he played was referred to as his wounded prairie chicken routine. As Paul writes,

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Prairie chickens have a trick to distract predators from their nest. They limp away from the nest as if injured. Then at a safe distance, they recover and fly away.

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Brown would show people his fluid dielectric system rather than the real, solid dielectric gravitator.

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The fluid dielectric is what's behind the Lifter technology. Small tinfoil triangles seen in countless DIY YouTube videos. These sort of make Brown's work look like an eighth grade science fair project.

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It wears the mantle of having some kind of gravitic effect, but it is attributed to the ion wind. The tinfoil level is the large plate and the wire is the small plate.

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Uh-huh.

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But when they are charged, the wire generates ions.

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Uh-huh.

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And that's what causes it to lift.

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Uh-huh.

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But if you have a solid dielectric, you're not going to get that ionic production.

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Oh, interesting.

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Okay.

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Interesting.

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So that's where, and, and, and, and, and-

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But it's like so similar. It's like perfect. The best disinfo is 95% true and 5% false.

[0:24:23 - 0:24:28] ▶

Exactly.

[0:24:28 - 0:24:29] ▶

People don't understand that.

[0:24:29 - 0:24:30] ▶

Right.

[0:24:30 - 0:24:31] ▶

And lest you think that Brown's work just took the form of these useless gravitators and never worked their way into functional aerospace vehicles,

[0:24:31 - 0:24:38] ▶

we have a decent amount of evidence that Northrop Grumman's B-2 stealth bomber actually uses Townsend Brown's principles.

[0:24:38 - 0:24:44] ▶

I don't know. I've even talked to some people who are like former Northrop and stuff.

[0:24:44 - 0:24:48] ▶

Mm-hmm.

[0:24:48 - 0:24:49] ▶

And like nobody's given me any first principles reasons as to why-

[0:24:49 - 0:24:52] ▶

It would work?

[0:24:52 - 0:24:53] ▶

No, it doesn't.

[0:24:53 - 0:24:54] ▶

It doesn't use the Bidefield-Brown effect.

[0:24:54 - 0:24:56] ▶

No, fuck it.

[0:24:56 - 0:24:57] ▶

Like it's, it's all like, oh, that's a myth.

[0:24:57 - 0:24:59] ▶

But there's nothing substantive around why it doesn't work.

[0:24:59 - 0:25:01] ▶

It's just like, don't, don't look at this or something.

[0:25:01 - 0:25:03] ▶

Right.

[0:25:03 - 0:25:04] ▶

Which makes me just want to look at it more.

[0:25:04 - 0:25:05] ▶

Of course.

[0:25:05 - 0:25:06] ▶

Remember that demo Brown did for Teller that blew him away?

[0:25:06 - 0:25:10] ▶

Well, it convinced a prominent lawyer and aerospace financier named Floyd Odlem to invest $4,000 in Brown's Santa Monica-based company Guidance Technologies.

[0:25:10 - 0:25:19] ▶

People who have capital, who are always being approached with propositions for their capital, they want somebody to tell them it's going to be okay.

[0:25:19 - 0:25:27] ▶

When Odlem made his investment in Brown in the 60s, he was a majority owner of Northrop before its merger with Grumman.

[0:25:27 - 0:25:34] ▶

Remember that fact.

[0:25:34 - 0:25:36] ▶

In 1967, after having multiple high-level meetings with the Rand Corporation, Bill Lear, and General Curtis LeMay.

[0:25:36 - 0:25:43] ▶

And Curtis LeMay kind of followed my dad down the steps.

[0:25:43 - 0:25:47] ▶

Townsend Brown shuts down Guidance Technologies with no explanation.

[0:25:47 - 0:25:51] ▶

Just three months later, Floyd Odlem's Northrop writes a paper saying that they are investing in electro-aerodynamics.

[0:25:51 - 0:25:59] ▶

Basically, Townsend Brown's work.

[0:25:59 - 0:26:01] ▶

And then they retract that press release.

[0:26:01 - 0:26:04] ▶

Oh, what do you mean for that one to get out?

[0:26:04 - 0:26:06] ▶

Right.

[0:26:06 - 0:26:07] ▶

And actually that 1968 paper, which I also found, was on electrostatics and whether electrostatics could confer a kind of an advantage to an airframe.

[0:26:07 - 0:26:19] ▶

If you charge the airframe electrostatically, it is said that, and in fact the Northrop paper demonstrated, a reduction in aerodynamic drag.

[0:26:19 - 0:26:29] ▶

Dan Marcus was a pseudonymously named but very prominent British physicist that served as a primary source for Nick Cook in the hunt for Zero Point.

[0:26:29 - 0:26:38] ▶

When Marcus searched for the Northrop paper on electro-aerodynamics at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, he found that it had totally vanished.

[0:26:38 - 0:26:47] ▶

After decades of classified work on the B-2 stealth bomber, and maybe some investigation into Townsend Brown's work, Northrop's premier stealth vehicle was revealed to use an electrostatic effect in its wings, producing a Byfield-Brown effect.

[0:26:47 - 0:27:02] ▶

The B-2 surfs its own electrostatic wave, the negative cloud chasing the positive wing.

[0:27:02 - 0:27:07] ▶

And the plane is effectively surfing that wave at high altitudes where the wings don't have as much bite in the air.

[0:27:07 - 0:27:14] ▶

And the B-2 was built by the merged Northrop Grumman, whose major investor Floyd Odlem was the same guy that invested in Townsend Brown's company Guidance Technologies in the 60s.

[0:27:14 - 0:27:25] ▶

So maybe Brown's Guidance Technologies didn't fail at all.

[0:27:25 - 0:27:30] ▶

Maybe it figured out some exotic propulsion tech which Northrop had 20 years to perfect with the B-2 stealth bomber.

[0:27:30 - 0:27:36] ▶

So are we just witnessing a little wounded prairie chicken routine with some covert IP transfer?

[0:27:36 - 0:27:42] ▶

Personally, I am not sure if the B-2 uses any sort of anti-gravity effect.

[0:27:44 - 0:27:48] ▶

It clearly uses some sort of charge around its skin as a mechanism to probably lower its radar signature.

[0:27:48 - 0:27:55] ▶

This might also improve the lift-to-drag ratio of the craft.

[0:27:55 - 0:27:59] ▶

It's plausible to me, and it's also plausible that they would deny that that technology is at work.

[0:27:59 - 0:28:08] ▶

We had a person involved in the, what we call the Before Times Forum.

[0:28:08 - 0:28:12] ▶

His name was Raymond Lavasse, who is past now, who was a Canadian mathematician, who swears that there was some very esoteric math that he worked on for the B-2.

[0:28:12 - 0:28:27] ▶

But Britain's most eminent aerospace journalist, Bill Gunston, fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society, famously wrote an article called Military Power.

[0:28:27 - 0:28:36] ▶

It was published in Air International Magazine as a comprehensive rundown on aerial engine technology since the end of the Second World War.

[0:28:36 - 0:28:44] ▶

This guy was so knowledgeable about stuff.

[0:28:44 - 0:28:48] ▶

He was, to a junior like me when I first joined the organization, his knowledge was godlike to me, you know.

[0:28:48 - 0:28:57] ▶

And there he comes up with this astounding article that the B-2, you know, when you run all the weight and the propulsion dynamics,

[0:28:57 - 0:29:09] ▶

it would have been incapable of the performance figures credited for it.

[0:29:09 - 0:29:14] ▶

So therefore it had to have some other boost to its capabilities, its regular capabilities.

[0:29:14 - 0:29:21] ▶

And this, he said, was down to this electro-gravity propulsion source, which was astounding.

[0:29:21 - 0:29:29] ▶

Gunston not only portrayed the B-2 anti-gravity drive story as fact, but went on to reveal that he had been well acquainted with the rudiments of T.T. Brown's theories for years,

[0:29:29 - 0:29:39] ▶

but had no wish to reside in the Tower of London.

[0:29:39 - 0:29:42] ▶

So he had refrained from discussing clever aeroplanes with leading edges charged to millions of volts positive and trailing edges to millions of volts negative.

[0:29:42 - 0:29:51] ▶

So the verdict is still out, but I think there's a lot of evidence that at least some of Townsend Brown's work made it into the B-2.

[0:29:51 - 0:29:59] ▶

And then you ask yourself the question, if there was covert IP transfer into the B-2 bomber, what other aerospace things did Brown's work make it into?

[0:29:59 - 0:30:11] ▶

MIT has demonstrated a plane with no moving parts, their ion plane.

[0:30:11 - 0:30:18] ▶

The demonstration plane looks like maybe it's 12 feet across and it's flying inside a room.

[0:30:18 - 0:30:24] ▶

But they're explaining where they get the idea.

[0:30:24 - 0:30:27] ▶

And they say, we took our idea from an obscure scientist back in the 20s.

[0:30:27 - 0:30:32] ▶

They don't name him, but they show pages of Townsend's research.

[0:30:32 - 0:30:36] ▶

And that's being displayed now.

[0:30:36 - 0:30:37] ▶

Right.

[0:30:37 - 0:30:38] ▶

That's cool.

[0:30:38 - 0:30:39] ▶

So the ions go from the positive to the negative, colliding all the way with neutral air molecules.

[0:30:39 - 0:30:44] ▶

That's essentially how it flies.

[0:30:44 - 0:30:45] ▶

So we know MIT students as recent as 2018 are investigating Townsend Brown's work.

[0:30:45 - 0:30:51] ▶

I also introduced Nick Cook and Paul Shatzkin for an off-camera meeting just to ensure they weren't being thrown off by the same disinformation sources.

[0:30:51 - 0:31:00] ▶

We found out that they had very different contacts.

[0:31:00 - 0:31:02] ▶

Again, both claiming that the B-2 stealth bomber implemented aspects of Townsend Brown's work.

[0:31:02 - 0:31:08] ▶

And if that doesn't fully vindicate Brown's aerospace legacy, here's an official 2004 NASA Marshall Space Flight Center patent under a senior engineer named John Campbell for a barrel-shaped asymmetrical capacitor.

[0:31:08 - 0:31:21] ▶

Naturally, the associated white paper mentions Townsend Brown a lot, but mainly in the context of updates in ionic propulsion.

[0:31:21 - 0:31:28] ▶

It's a bit more skeptical of the ability for the B-field Brown effect to work in a vacuum.

[0:31:28 - 0:31:33] ▶

Again, I'll reiterate that I'm open to the possibility that Brown's work simply amounted to very exotic ionic wind propulsion implemented in black aerospace.

[0:31:33 - 0:31:42] ▶

And that his work ultimately didn't marry electromagnetism and gravity.

[0:31:42 - 0:31:46] ▶

But there are two other possibilities with this NASA paper.

[0:31:46 - 0:31:49] ▶

Number one is that the Air Force and contractors like Lockheed and Northrop know a lot more than NASA.

[0:31:49 - 0:31:55] ▶

Number two is that NASA was playing dumb.

[0:31:55 - 0:31:57] ▶

You see, in 2003, right before they filed their Townsend Brown-related patents, NASA announced through an article in The Guardian that it would be ending its breakthrough physics and gravity manipulation efforts.

[0:31:57 - 0:32:09] ▶

The article is basically a dedication to Townsend Brown, whose quote-unquote, name may be forgotten, but his dream lives on.

[0:32:09 - 0:32:16] ▶

But they don't explicitly cite any reasons for ceasing their investigation into Brown's work.

[0:32:16 - 0:32:22] ▶

This, I think, is ultimately what's very hard to talk about.

[0:32:22 - 0:32:25] ▶

Yeah.

[0:32:25 - 0:32:26] ▶

Is to what extent the things that he discovered in the 1920s and 30s, to what extent could that be the foundation of whatever has been developed completely off the books in the black?

[0:32:26 - 0:32:39] ▶

Do you think Bob Lazar is full of shit?

[0:32:39 - 0:32:41] ▶

Bob Lazar.

[0:32:41 - 0:32:42] ▶

Bob Lazar.

[0:32:42 - 0:32:43] ▶

Bob Lazar.

[0:32:43 - 0:32:44] ▶

The really confusing thing for people that are detractors is he really hasn't changed the story in 31 years.

[0:32:44 - 0:32:51] ▶

It really is the same story.

[0:32:51 - 0:32:53] ▶

If you are not one of the tens of millions of people who've listened to his podcast with Joe Rogan, Bob Lazar claimed he worked at a secret compartmentalized facility at Area 51 called S-4 in the Nevada desert, reverse engineering a flying saucer that looked like this.

[0:32:53 - 0:33:09] ▶

I went into the hangar door and in the hangar door was the disk, the flying saucer.

[0:33:09 - 0:33:14] ▶

This is technology that doesn't even exist.

[0:33:14 - 0:33:17] ▶

Lazar had been recruited to work there after reportedly meeting with Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb.

[0:33:17 - 0:33:22] ▶

And once Lazar was read in, he was sworn to secrecy about his work.

[0:33:22 - 0:33:26] ▶

Now you'd think it would be pretty easy to write Lazar off as crazy, but he definitely knew some real classified American secrets.

[0:33:26 - 0:33:33] ▶

For example, people hadn't even heard of the top secret flight testing facility Area 51 before, and they definitely didn't know its location in Nevada's Grim Lake.

[0:33:33 - 0:33:43] ▶

Lazar also remained remarkably consistent in his story since 89 when it came out.

[0:33:43 - 0:33:48] ▶

But here's the weirdest detail that makes me think the Lazar story was intentionally pushed out by the CIA.

[0:33:48 - 0:33:54] ▶

His story was leaked to the public by a CIA pilot, a close friend of his named John Lear, who flew cargo planes for the CIA and set all sorts of aviation records of the 70s.

[0:33:54 - 0:34:05] ▶

Good evening, this is John Lear.

[0:34:05 - 0:34:07] ▶

It was a day in 1987, into the studio comes a guy named John Lear.

[0:34:07 - 0:34:11] ▶

Lear literally introduced Bob Lazar to legendary UFO journalist George Knapp, who broke the story.

[0:34:11 - 0:34:17] ▶

Now I've spoken to Jeremy Korbel, George Knapp's co-host on the Weaponized podcast, who's made a great documentary about the story.

[0:34:17 - 0:34:23] ▶

Bob Lazar.

[0:34:23 - 0:34:24] ▶

Corbel assured me that Lear could barely tie his own shoes.

[0:34:24 - 0:34:27] ▶

He just had a really wide filter and was duped by a lot of the people around him.

[0:34:27 - 0:34:31] ▶

I respect Jeremy Korbel and George Knapp a lot.

[0:34:31 - 0:34:34] ▶

They and Ross Coulthart are basically the only guys meeting with people in and around the actual UFO program on the front lines.

[0:34:34 - 0:34:41] ▶

But after doing a little more research on John Lear, I kind of just think he was doing the bidding of the CIA.

[0:34:41 - 0:34:46] ▶

He acted like he disaffiliated from the CIA in 83.

[0:34:46 - 0:34:50] ▶

But according to George Knapp himself, Lear may have flown planes for the CIA well into the 80s around the time he leaked the Lazar story.

[0:34:50 - 0:34:58] ▶

You're CIA.

[0:34:58 - 0:34:59] ▶

Shhh.

[0:34:59 - 0:35:00] ▶

Shhh.

[0:35:00 - 0:35:01] ▶

If there was an active UFO program under the CIA going on in the 80s, why would they continue to contract with a guy leaking secrets about their holy grail top black program?

[0:35:01 - 0:35:10] ▶

That's like the Department of Energy continuing to pay a person who is leaking the nuclear codes.

[0:35:10 - 0:35:15] ▶

I want to be very clear.

[0:35:15 - 0:35:19] ▶

I'm not saying that the information Bob Lazar put out is fully wrong or fake.

[0:35:19 - 0:35:24] ▶

I'm not even saying he definitively didn't work on exotic craft of off planet origin.

[0:35:24 - 0:35:29] ▶

And I'm definitely not saying that the reporting on him was all a waste of time.

[0:35:29 - 0:35:34] ▶

What I am saying is that clearly someone on the inside, someone likely connected to John Lear, obviously wanted this story out.

[0:35:34 - 0:35:42] ▶

Now what kind of proof do you have that that is true? How do you know that?

[0:35:42 - 0:35:46] ▶

Just think about it for a second.

[0:35:46 - 0:35:48] ▶

Lear was not only close friends with Lazar before Lazar got hired by Area 51.

[0:35:48 - 0:35:53] ▶

Lear had an active newsletter about UFOs at the time.

[0:35:53 - 0:35:56] ▶

Lear constantly spoke at UFO conferences in Vegas, became very actively involved in MUFON, a civilian UFO organization,

[0:35:56 - 0:36:03] ▶

wrote anonymous pieces with Behold a Pale Horse author and crazy conspiracy theorist Bill Cooper.

[0:36:03 - 0:36:09] ▶

He even visited Paul Benowitz.

[0:36:09 - 0:36:12] ▶

And in case you don't recall, Benowitz was the victim of a horrible psyop perpetrated by an Air Force counterintelligence agent named Rick Doty.

[0:36:12 - 0:36:19] ▶

It was very easy to convince Paul. Paul was a World War II veteran. He's very patriotic.

[0:36:19 - 0:36:24] ▶

When Benowitz saw what was probably just frontier terrestrial aerospace technology vertically taking off and landing at Kirtland Air Force Base, Doty convinced him that he was viewing alien craft and basically drove him into psychiatric hospitalization.

[0:36:24 - 0:36:39] ▶

But Lear visited Benowitz after Doty did, and reports were that Benowitz was pretty spooked after that meeting.

[0:36:39 - 0:36:45] ▶

Finally, the documents about the origins of humanity that were given to Lazar are insanely similar to those shown to Linda Moulton Howe to read at Kirtland Air Force Base by none other than Rick Doty.

[0:36:45 - 0:36:56] ▶

This shows that there was coordination across multiple Air Force bases spreading the same disinformation to protect core truths around advanced aviation in the 80s.

[0:36:56 - 0:37:06] ▶

Truths that probably involved Townsend Brown's work.

[0:37:06 - 0:37:09] ▶

What do stories like that do? Well, they obscure the truth.

[0:37:09 - 0:37:13] ▶

You know, they act as smoke screens for anyone who's trying to do serious investigation on people like Brown because of the taint that comes with them.

[0:37:13 - 0:37:25] ▶

Other aliens appear to be essentially the same as Earthmen, while still others have particularly right wrap around eyes.

[0:37:25 - 0:37:32] ▶

Do you really think a real UFO reverse engineering program wouldn't do a basic background check on Lazar and know his good friend was a babbling UFO nut?

[0:37:32 - 0:37:42] ▶

And that might just be a red flag for hiring you in the first place?

[0:37:42 - 0:37:45] ▶

Most people think I'm absolutely nuts.

[0:37:45 - 0:37:49] ▶

Let's just reiterate the timeline. Here's what was going on in the 70s.

[0:37:49 - 0:37:53] ▶

John Lear and his good friend, an aviation photographer and journalist named Jim Goodall, are camping out of Area 51 and Groom Lake constantly.

[0:37:53 - 0:38:01] ▶

At the time, Area 51 security is very aware of John Lear and know exactly who he is by Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp's own admission.

[0:38:01 - 0:38:10] ▶

In the 80s, Lear continues to fly cargo planes for the CIA on top secret missions.

[0:38:10 - 0:38:16] ▶

And then Lazar gets hired at Area 51 by an apparent secret CIA UFO program that doesn't seem to care that his friend Lear has been hanging out around Area 51 and photographing it for the better part of a decade.

[0:38:16 - 0:38:28] ▶

They also don't seem to care that John Lear has been systematically spilling secrets about their core UFO program.

[0:38:28 - 0:38:34] ▶

While hanging out one day, John Lear shows Lazar a tape of Billy Meyer, a Swedish UFOlogist who has been caught in multiple known hoaxes.

[0:38:34 - 0:38:42] ▶

So we saw, we showed him the Billy Meyer's tapes.

[0:38:42 - 0:38:45] ▶

In 1989, Bob Lazar goes public with John Lear introducing him to George Knapp.

[0:38:45 - 0:38:50] ▶

Lazar describes working on a flying saucer that looks exactly like Billy Meyer's sports model.

[0:38:50 - 0:38:56] ▶

It looked like, if anyone's familiar with Billy Meyer's sightings, very astonishingly similar to that craft.

[0:38:56 - 0:39:05] ▶

And what about the line from Jacques Vallée's book about UFO misinformation?

[0:39:05 - 0:39:09] ▶

Vallée claims that Lazar told him about a strange liquid he was made to drink and the memory lapses it caused.

[0:39:09 - 0:39:16] ▶

Relax.

[0:39:16 - 0:39:18] ▶

But why would Lear or his handlers want to spread all these lies?

[0:39:18 - 0:39:22] ▶

Flood the zone with craziness on a core secret you're worried might get out eventually,

[0:39:22 - 0:39:26] ▶

but with someone you know you can discredit in Bob Lazar?

[0:39:26 - 0:39:29] ▶

Soften the blow for the public when the leak eventually does occur?

[0:39:29 - 0:39:32] ▶

Or maybe protect some deep black aerospace tech by emphasizing its less directly actionable elements, exotic metamaterials that came from the sky.

[0:39:32 - 0:39:42] ▶

Instead of the very terrestrial propulsion and physics breakthroughs, which are easier to recreate, but also kind of dangerous.

[0:39:42 - 0:39:49] ▶

What does Townsend Brown and the B2 stealth bomber have anything to do with Bob Lazar?

[0:39:49 - 0:39:57] ▶

Well, indirectly, probably a whole lot.

[0:39:57 - 0:39:59] ▶

See, it's important to understand what was happening in defense, and more specifically, stealth aviation technology in the 80s.

[0:39:59 - 0:40:06] ▶

The stealth revolution was just beginning. You know, stealth was just beginning to ramp up.

[0:40:06 - 0:40:12] ▶

And you could almost see someone going, hey, you know what?

[0:40:12 - 0:40:17] ▶

We're going to need a bit of unconventional cover for this new technology that's about to come online.

[0:40:17 - 0:40:23] ▶

In 87, Lear leaks a story about the F-117 stealth fighter to KLAS, Knapp's news station in Las Vegas, and also gives them a bunch of supposedly top secret UFO tips.

[0:40:23 - 0:40:35] ▶

He had told my boss, Ned Day, managing editor, about this amazing plane that was invisible to radar flying up in Tonopah in Area 51.

[0:40:35 - 0:40:44] ▶

By Knapp's own account, this information on the F-117 establishes credibility for Lear with the news station.

[0:40:44 - 0:40:51] ▶

But on a plane in the F-117 that is no longer state of the art.

[0:40:51 - 0:40:55] ▶

In fact, one had just crashed in Bakersfield in 1986 and had been outed to the public.

[0:40:55 - 0:41:01] ▶

It also probably wasn't the most advanced aviation craft that Lockheed had operational at the time.

[0:41:01 - 0:41:06] ▶

I think you have your bullshit that's going on where there's definitely some programs just like they did with the stealth bomber.

[0:41:06 - 0:41:12] ▶

Yeah. Just like they did with hypersonic missiles.

[0:41:12 - 0:41:14] ▶

There's a lot of stuff that they developed that's like it has to be developed in top secret for national security reasons.

[0:41:14 - 0:41:20] ▶

It has to be done that way. You can't just tell everybody you have this thing.

[0:41:20 - 0:41:23] ▶

And so one of the best ways to obscure that, I'm sure, would be to blame it on aliens.

[0:41:23 - 0:41:29] ▶

And Ben Rich, the director of Lockheed Skunk Works at the time, would openly express frustration at all the money he had to spend on tech protection.

[0:41:29 - 0:41:39] ▶

Maybe the extraterrestrial narrative in the 80s was being used to protect deep black aerospace projects like the Aurora or the Astra.

[0:41:39 - 0:41:48] ▶

These are the two code names used for the long rumored high speed black triangle stealth surveillance craft made by Lockheed Martin and allegedly tested out of Groom Lake.

[0:41:48 - 0:41:58] ▶

And this was around the same time Lazar was there. After all, the Aurora was probably Lockheed's answer to Northrop's B2.

[0:41:58 - 0:42:05] ▶

As the two prime defense contractors were locked in head to head competition in times of peak defense spending.

[0:42:05 - 0:42:11] ▶

So maybe the Aurora also used flight principles inspired by Townsend Brown.

[0:42:11 - 0:42:15] ▶

For some context here, the U.S. geological surveys at the time were picking up sonic booms, presumably from a supersonic craft.

[0:42:15 - 0:42:23] ▶

And they knew it wasn't created by the space shuttle or the SR-71 Blackbird.

[0:42:23 - 0:42:28] ▶

The Aurora had also showed up as a line item in the 1987 congressional budget with $2.3 billion earmarked for it.

[0:42:28 - 0:42:36] ▶

Something Lockheed had trouble explaining away.

[0:42:36 - 0:42:38] ▶

And then finally, Aurora's were being spotted left and right around the world.

[0:42:38 - 0:42:43] ▶

An oil rig engineer witnessed and sketched one near the North Sea in 1989.

[0:42:43 - 0:42:48] ▶

The same year the Bob Lazar story came out.

[0:42:48 - 0:42:51] ▶

We ran that story in Jane's Defense Weekly. It created a huge splash.

[0:42:51 - 0:42:56] ▶

Finally, there are British Ministry of Defense documents from the late 90s that discuss black triangular high-speed recon aircrafts made by Lockheed Martin that utilize exotic propulsion.

[0:42:56 - 0:43:07] ▶

So I think the Aurora is real.

[0:43:07 - 0:43:09] ▶

I just think it uses exotic propulsion technology that may have its roots in Townsend Brown.

[0:43:09 - 0:43:15] ▶

You may not find out in a month, a year, five years, or ten years.

[0:43:15 - 0:43:19] ▶

But you'll look back at what I'm telling you now and you'll say to yourself,

[0:43:19 - 0:43:23] ▶

My gosh, the son of a gun was right.

[0:43:23 - 0:43:26] ▶

Bob Lazar himself even said he saw the Aurora while working at Groom Lake.

[0:43:26 - 0:43:30] ▶

But Lazar apparently found it very unimpressive compared to the disk technology he was working on.

[0:43:30 - 0:43:36] ▶

Tell us a little more about the Aurora you witnessed taking off out of Area 51.

[0:43:36 - 0:43:40] ▶

It was a large craft and it had two huge square exhausts with veins.

[0:43:40 - 0:43:46] ▶

And it sounded more like a rocket than a jet.

[0:43:46 - 0:43:49] ▶

There again, working on the disk technology, I really could care less what was rolling around at Area 51.

[0:43:49 - 0:43:55] ▶

Again, Lazar is being used to amplify the UFO narrative while simultaneously downplaying the real human tech that could end up in adversary hands and get weaponized.

[0:43:55 - 0:44:05] ▶

And if you're Lockheed and in possession of a real UFO craft, and maybe the work on that craft has stagnated,

[0:44:05 - 0:44:11] ▶

you can also use Lazar as a recruitment tool for engineering talent who want to pursue breakthroughs in extraterrestrial technology,

[0:44:11 - 0:44:18] ▶

but may not have even been aware of the existence of such technology before Lazar.

[0:44:18 - 0:44:24] ▶

Maybe that also explains Robert Weiss, the director of Skunk Works, and his connection to Tom DeLonge and TTSA to the Stars Academy later in 2017.

[0:44:24 - 0:44:34] ▶

See, if you're Lockheed, you want the right talent and awareness around the UFO issue.

[0:44:34 - 0:44:39] ▶

But simultaneously, you probably don't want the government claiming eminent domain over your UFOs.

[0:44:39 - 0:44:44] ▶

That explains them working with congressional representatives who they donate a lot of money to, like Mike Turner,

[0:44:44 - 0:44:50] ▶

who literally represents Dayton, Ohio's congressional district with Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in it to kill the Schumer bill.

[0:44:50 - 0:44:57] ▶

But perhaps to get a much clearer understanding of John Lear's potential motivations,

[0:44:57 - 0:45:02] ▶

we have to go all the way back to the 50s to his father, Bill Lear, and the early innings of American UFO and exotic propulsion research.

[0:45:02 - 0:45:11] ▶

Bill Lear invented the Learjet, the first commercial business airliner, and ran Lear Incorporated, an aerospace company based in Santa Monica.

[0:45:11 - 0:45:20] ▶

He famously developed the car radio, radio direction finders, and the first fully automatic landing system for an aircraft.

[0:45:20 - 0:45:27] ▶

He was widely known as the Autopilot Wizard.

[0:45:27 - 0:45:30] ▶

If there was an original program working on antigravity propulsion, Bill Lear was on it.

[0:45:30 - 0:45:35] ▶

In fact, a 1956 article for Jane's Defense Weekly states,

[0:45:35 - 0:45:39] ▶

and William Lear, the Autopilot Wizard, is already figuring out gravity control for the weightless craft to come.

[0:45:39 - 0:45:46] ▶

Lear is even on record at the time stating that one of his reasons for believing in flying saucers

[0:45:46 - 0:45:51] ▶

was the existence of American research efforts into antigravity.

[0:45:51 - 0:45:55] ▶

Lear Corporation's headquarters were across the street from Townsend Brown's guidance technologies,

[0:45:55 - 0:46:00] ▶

and Brown's daughter, Linda, recalls the two inventors getting lunch practically every day.

[0:46:00 - 0:46:05] ▶

We used to walk across there, there was a little diner right across the street.

[0:46:05 - 0:46:08] ▶

There's even a video of Lear visiting Agnew Bonson's labs in North Carolina,

[0:46:08 - 0:46:13] ▶

and witnessing Townsend Brown's gravitator experiments.

[0:46:13 - 0:46:17] ▶

Yes, John Lear had a personal falling out with his father who cut him out of his will.

[0:46:17 - 0:46:21] ▶

But by all accounts, John seemed pretty proud of his father's work.

[0:46:21 - 0:46:24] ▶

He carried all sorts of aviation records and was probably at the forefront of advanced aviation technology at the time.

[0:46:24 - 0:46:31] ▶

And actually, when John Lear saw this footage of his father with Townsend Brown, he was reportedly very emotional.

[0:46:31 - 0:46:37] ▶

So there's actually a pretty coherent clear picture here.

[0:46:37 - 0:46:40] ▶

Lear Sr. works with Townsend Brown at guidance technologies on antigravity.

[0:46:40 - 0:46:44] ▶

This antigravity work makes it into stealth aviation and advanced propulsion technology in the 80s.

[0:46:44 - 0:46:50] ▶

And then Lear Jr. floods the zone with alien-related disinformation to protect these exotic propulsion breakthroughs.

[0:46:50 - 0:46:57] ▶

The novel propulsion physics of Townsend Brown.

[0:46:57 - 0:47:00] ▶

In 1971, the Australian government's Department of Defense and their joint intelligence organization

[0:47:01 - 0:47:07] ▶

wrote an assessment of UFOs and whether their government should be investing more resources into the phenomenon.

[0:47:07 - 0:47:13] ▶

The document writes,

[0:47:13 - 0:47:14] ▶

A more astounding decision on the part of the U.S. government was to allocate considerable funds to investigate gravity and a means of controlling gravity.

[0:47:14 - 0:47:23] ▶

The six research centers being established were at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, Indiana University, Purdue University, University of North Carolina, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology through the Gravity Research Institute.

[0:47:23 - 0:47:37] ▶

One of these antigravity research centers, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, was basically just Agnew Bonson and his Institute for Field Physics.

[0:47:37 - 0:47:46] ▶

Bonson's chief theoretical physicist was Bryce DeWitt and his chief experimentalist was Townsend Brown.

[0:47:46 - 0:47:52] ▶

In fact, Wright Airfield Base, in close coordination with Martin Corporation, had their own division of theoretical physics antigravity research, headed up by a guy named Josh Goldberg.

[0:47:52 - 0:48:03] ▶

Martin Corporation, pre-Lockheed merger, was represented by a mathematician named Lewis Witten.

[0:48:03 - 0:48:09] ▶

The reason there was a laboratory at Wright Field was to find out what we were doing and to help us do it, and I got a contract from Wright Field to do it, to do gravity, which I did very happily.

[0:48:09 - 0:48:23] ▶

Lewis Witten worked for Martin Corporation's antigravity research outfit, Research Institute for Advanced Studies.

[0:48:23 - 0:48:30] ▶

In fact, Lewis Witten from Martin Corporation is quoted in American Theoretical Physics as saying,

[0:48:30 - 0:48:36] ▶

A guy named Townsend discovered that there was a type of bismuth that was repelled instead of attracting.

[0:48:36 - 0:48:42] ▶

And where have we heard about bismuth before?

[0:48:42 - 0:48:44] ▶

That's Gary Nolan, Stanford microbiologist and Nobel nominee, who claims to have UFO crash parts with isotope ratios that don't occur naturally on Earth.

[0:48:44 - 0:48:55] ▶

One of his pieces that we looked at together when I visited was magnesium bismuth.

[0:48:55 - 0:49:00] ▶

Bismuth layers less than a human hair supposedly picked up in the crash retrieval of an advanced aerospace vehicle.

[0:49:00 - 0:49:07] ▶

Nowhere could we find any evidence that anybody ever made one of these.

[0:49:07 - 0:49:11] ▶

Bismuth seems to show up everywhere.

[0:49:11 - 0:49:13] ▶

See, bismuth has what's known as a high K-factor, meaning it stores a lot of electromagnetic charge.

[0:49:13 - 0:49:19] ▶

Using an insulator with a high K-factor in the Byfield-Brown experiment is essential for the level of thrust that you can achieve.

[0:49:19 - 0:49:26] ▶

Was Lewis Witten just referring to one of Brown's insulator materials?

[0:49:26 - 0:49:30] ▶

But where did all this high-level theoretical physics research on antigravity go?

[0:49:30 - 0:49:35] ▶

Again, the simple answer might be that physics just got shepherded into the dead end of quantum gravity and string theory.

[0:49:35 - 0:49:42] ▶

But remember, in the 50s and 60s you had all these top physicists working on the nature of gravity, including Robert J Oppenheimer, who David Grush claims helped set up UFO secrecy.

[0:49:42 - 0:49:53] ▶

Oppenheimer, somebody purportedly involved in the stand-up of the stuff that I uncovered, right?

[0:49:53 - 0:49:59] ▶

And we're meant to believe it just sputtered out?

[0:49:59 - 0:50:01] ▶

Quieted down because nobody ever got anywhere.

[0:50:01 - 0:50:04] ▶

Or it quieted down because it did get somewhere and it went black.

[0:50:04 - 0:50:07] ▶

And why would the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence need to do all this theoretical antigravity work in the first place?

[0:50:07 - 0:50:14] ▶

Well, maybe it's because they were in possession of exotic crafts and trying to figure out how they work.

[0:50:14 - 0:50:20] ▶

The obvious candidates for these crafts would be the metamaterials retrieved in crashes like those at Roswell, Aztec, and Kingman.

[0:50:20 - 0:50:28] ▶

But what if there was another source for exotic disks in American possession?

[0:50:28 - 0:50:32] ▶

A source with its roots deep in Nazi black projects.

[0:50:32 - 0:50:36] ▶

The year is 1945. The place, Nazi Germany.

[0:50:36 - 0:50:46] ▶

Allied fighter pilots have reported seeing controlled balls of light interfering with their flight paths in the skies for the last three years.

[0:50:46 - 0:50:53] ▶

These mysterious balls of light become known as Foo Fighters.

[0:50:53 - 0:50:57] ▶

And they were simply balls of light that rose up out of the countryside that appeared to have some kind of intelligent control that were able to follow allied aircraft on their flight paths and intervene with them and interact with them and then fly off into the distance.

[0:50:57 - 0:51:15] ▶

Appearing on the scene to investigate is none other than Townsend Brown.

[0:51:15 - 0:51:21] ▶

Townsend Brown, who was living in California at the time, was pressed into service, flown into England, and then from England, flown into Germany.

[0:51:21 - 0:51:34] ▶

And from a very low altitude, parachuted behind enemy lines into Germany, where he was recovered by the character that I have codenamed in the book, O'Reilly.

[0:51:34 - 0:51:47] ▶

Going through the papers, there was a telegram that had been sent to Linda's mother.

[0:51:47 - 0:51:53] ▶

And it was from the Rockefeller Plaza building.

[0:51:53 - 0:51:56] ▶

And it was signed Intrepid, which was William Stevenson's name, codename.

[0:51:56 - 0:52:03] ▶

And Stevenson is saying, your husband is recuperating fine in an English hospital.

[0:52:03 - 0:52:10] ▶

We'll send him home soon, in effect.

[0:52:10 - 0:52:13] ▶

So I realized then that not everybody that goes on a secret mission and gets wounded has a telegram sent to reassure their family that they're fine.

[0:52:13 - 0:52:24] ▶

At the time, retrieving top classified tech and weaponry from a Nazi Germany that seemed very close to defeat was a big priority.

[0:52:24 - 0:52:33] ▶

Covert missions like Alsos and TICOM involved top American scientists heading behind enemy lines in order to vet captured Nazi scientists and their exotic nuclear communications and propulsion technology.

[0:52:33 - 0:52:46] ▶

It was rumored at the time also in Nazi Germany that they were working on flying saucer flying disc programs.

[0:52:46 - 0:52:54] ▶

Brown was called in by William Stevenson, the MI6's top spy and the inspiration for James Bond.

[0:52:54 - 0:53:00] ▶

The other leader of the mission was Wild Bill Donovan, who ran the OSS.

[0:53:00 - 0:53:04] ▶

Both guys played a big part in the initial formation of the CIA.

[0:53:04 - 0:53:08] ▶

The TICOM mission, which Brown was associated with, took place in East Germany.

[0:53:08 - 0:53:13] ▶

Brown was captured by the Nazis and made a prisoner of war, just to get rescued shortly thereafter by the Americans.

[0:53:13 - 0:53:20] ▶

We have no idea what Brown found or retrieved in Germany, and we're not sure just how far east he made it.

[0:53:20 - 0:53:26] ▶

But we do know SS officer Hans Kammler probably ran a secret weapons unit for the Nazis called Schkoda Works, which you can think of as the German Skunk Works.

[0:53:26 - 0:53:36] ▶

Schkoda was split between three locations, Brno and Pilsen in Czechoslovakia, and Wroclaw in modern-day Poland.

[0:53:36 - 0:53:43] ▶

The secret unit worked on anti-aircraft lasers, nuclear propulsion for rockets and aircraft, and directed energy weapons.

[0:53:43 - 0:53:50] ▶

There were also rumors of some very exotic propulsion going on.

[0:53:50 - 0:53:54] ▶

We don't know for sure that Schkoda works existed, but there's a ton of corroborative evidence that it probably did that Nick Cook outlines in his great book, The Hunt for Zero Point.

[0:53:54 - 0:54:03] ▶

Albert Speer wrote of Hans Kammler,

[0:54:03 - 0:54:05] ▶

He was a cold, ruthless schemer.

[0:54:05 - 0:54:07] ▶

Kammler employed aerospace visionaries like Rudolf Schreiber and Richard Mieta.

[0:54:07 - 0:54:12] ▶

Mieta is the mysterious high-voltage physicist that Townsend-Brown's task force reportedly helped capture for the Allied forces.

[0:54:12 - 0:54:19] ▶

He was a high-voltage electrical engineer that they were looking for.

[0:54:19 - 0:54:23] ▶

And here again, this, what is the role of extremely high voltages and extremely low currents?

[0:54:23 - 0:54:28] ▶

What is its role in the possible generation of synthetic gravitational fields?

[0:54:28 - 0:54:33] ▶

Brown was likely part of this operation because Mieta's work bore an uncanny resemblance to his own.

[0:54:33 - 0:54:39] ▶

In fact, it turns out there's a long lineage of high-voltage physicists creating these high-electrical charges with low current across short distances.

[0:54:39 - 0:54:48] ▶

This was exactly what Nikola Tesla was rumored to be working on at Wardenclyffe in Long Island.

[0:54:48 - 0:54:54] ▶

Mieta's contemporary, German technician Rudolf Schreiber, claims to have worked on a disc-shaped craft in Prague that made its first flight test in February of 1945, climbing to 40,000 feet in three minutes.

[0:54:54 - 0:55:06] ▶

Finally, the German flying saucer program employed a mysterious prodigy inventor named Victor Schauberger.

[0:55:06 - 0:55:13] ▶

Schauberger had invented a very unique form of propulsion using what he dubbed an impeller.

[0:55:13 - 0:55:18] ▶

A propeller that induced an inward, instead of outward flowing motion, to draw water through a tube.

[0:55:18 - 0:55:24] ▶

The resulting power was nine times that of a conventional pressure turbine.

[0:55:24 - 0:55:28] ▶

In 1941, an SS officer approached Schauberger in Austria, which prompted a period of complete silence in his life.

[0:55:28 - 0:55:35] ▶

Just a few weeks later, he wrote a letter to his son Walter saying he was in Czechoslovakia, and what I am doing, quote unquote, is secret.

[0:55:35 - 0:55:43] ▶

And a lot of these guys came to the U.S., at least in stints after World War II.

[0:55:43 - 0:55:48] ▶

Right, right, right.

[0:55:48 - 0:55:49] ▶

Some in part of Paperclip, others just, they seem to be recruited out here.

[0:55:49 - 0:55:52] ▶

Right.

[0:55:52 - 0:55:53] ▶

Project.

[0:55:53 - 0:55:54] ▶

Yeah.

[0:55:54 - 0:55:55] ▶

So maybe it was like there was some convergence, and Brown was working on this stuff in the U.S.,

[0:55:55 - 0:55:59] ▶

and then maybe he needed certain elements of the picture completed, and we needed this retrieval process.

[0:55:59 - 0:56:05] ▶

Yeah, I like that theory, Jesse.

[0:56:05 - 0:56:07] ▶

That Brown was kind of a rogue operative who, you know, went over here and found this piece,

[0:56:07 - 0:56:12] ▶

and brought it behind the curtain, and then went over here and found that piece, and brought it behind the curtain.

[0:56:12 - 0:56:18] ▶

And we're suggesting that there is a lot of advanced technology that has somehow, and to me remarkably so,

[0:56:18 - 0:56:28] ▶

that has been in fact developed off the books and out of public knowledge, and that there might be some truth.

[0:56:28 - 0:56:34] ▶

To that door number two rumor, that a lot of this stuff really exists.

[0:56:34 - 0:56:39] ▶

John Warner IV, the grandson of CIA founding member Paul Mellon, also has a story he likes to tell.

[0:56:39 - 0:56:46] ▶

After his grandfather's third martini one night, Mellon stated that he and Alan Dulles were in Pilsen, Czechoslovakia, in late May 1945.

[0:56:46 - 0:56:55] ▶

And my grandfather said, look, you know, we were in a facility, a hangar, and we saw, you know, a German flying disc.

[0:56:55 - 0:57:02] ▶

And I said, you know, oh, is that the one that was cobbled together with six BMW jet engines?

[0:57:02 - 0:57:09] ▶

And he laughed and he said, no.

[0:57:09 - 0:57:12] ▶

Here's where the story gets crazy.

[0:57:12 - 0:57:14] ▶

By most accounts, Mita, one of the key aerospace engineers on the project, and the guy that Townsend Brown captured,

[0:57:14 - 0:57:21] ▶

ends up in Canada working on the Avrocar.

[0:57:21 - 0:57:24] ▶

The Avrocar was a joint venture between the US and Canada, run by a guy named John Frost, to build basically a functional flying saucer.

[0:57:24 - 0:57:33] ▶

Schauberger stays behind in Germany, but gets approached by Frost in 1953.

[0:57:33 - 0:57:38] ▶

Mita was probably trying to convince Frost that he needed to get the Skoda Works band back together.

[0:57:38 - 0:57:43] ▶

In other words, the Avrocar was trying to recreate the legendary Nazi UFO program.

[0:57:43 - 0:57:49] ▶

After Schauberger rejects Frost's offer, a German-American counterintelligence agent named Karl Gersheimer

[0:57:49 - 0:57:56] ▶

visits Austria in 1957, promising Schauberger millions to continue his work in Texas.

[0:57:56 - 0:58:02] ▶

Gersheimer then tricks Schauberger into signing all of his IP over to the US, which gets branded as atomic energy research.

[0:58:02 - 0:58:09] ▶

But why would exotic propulsion technology be classified as atomic research?

[0:58:09 - 0:58:14] ▶

That surprised Nick Cook a ton when he wrote his book in 2001.

[0:58:14 - 0:58:18] ▶

Well, now it makes complete sense in light of David Grush's whistleblower revelations.

[0:58:18 - 0:58:23] ▶

The guys that were involved in Manhattan were overlaying the same ecosystem of secrecy

[0:58:23 - 0:58:28] ▶

and some of the same ways to protect stuff that they were protecting our nuclear secrets.

[0:58:28 - 0:58:33] ▶

And what happens to the Avrocar project?

[0:58:33 - 0:58:36] ▶

Well, nominally, it fails in 1961.

[0:58:36 - 0:58:39] ▶

But in reality, it moves to the US to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in the form of a project called Project Y, or Silverbug.

[0:58:39 - 0:58:47] ▶

I called Curtis LeMay and I said, General, I know we have a room at Wright-Patterson where you put all this secret stuff.

[0:58:47 - 0:58:58] ▶

Can I go in there?

[0:58:58 - 0:59:00] ▶

I've never heard him get mad, but he got madder than hell.

[0:59:00 - 0:59:05] ▶

Now, if you're Wright-Patterson and you're trying to make a flying saucer work, that would explain why you'd hire a team of theoretical physicists like Josh Goldberg working on antigravity.

[0:59:05 - 0:59:15] ▶

It would also explain why you'd sponsor the 1957 Chapel Hill Conference.

[0:59:15 - 0:59:20] ▶

Finally, it explains why Wright-Patterson recruited Henry Kawanda, a Romanian engineer who had invented his own designs for a lenticular aerodyne flying saucer.

[0:59:20 - 0:59:29] ▶

Kawanda was a consultant on Project Y out of Wright Field.

[0:59:29 - 0:59:32] ▶

And in 1956, he, along with Jacques Cornelion, convinced none other than Townsend Brown to come to France to prove that his experiments worked in a vacuum.

[0:59:32 - 0:59:42] ▶

And when Brown flew back to America from Paris, who picked him up from the airport? Robert Saarbacher.

[0:59:42 - 0:59:48] ▶

Saarbacher, somebody purportedly involved in the standup of the stuff that I uncovered, right?

[0:59:48 - 0:59:54] ▶

Remember Agnew Bonson, Brown's patron in the 50s?

[0:59:54 - 0:59:57] ▶

Well, in 1959, he actually wrote a science fiction novel called The Stars Are Too High,

[0:59:57 - 1:00:03] ▶

about a fake alien invasion perpetrated by rogue antigravity scientists deep in intelligence in order to create global unity and ease tensions in the midst of the Cold War.

[1:00:03 - 1:00:14] ▶

The original antigravity scientists who created the flying saucer in Bonson's book were Nazi Germans developing UFOs in secret.

[1:00:14 - 1:00:22] ▶

These Nazi scientists had defected to America after the war to work with the Americans to perfect their flying saucer.

[1:00:22 - 1:00:29] ▶

And that's when they tracked the 음re.

[1:00:29 - 1:00:32] ▶

The last three years ago had a new practical fave getting significantvarietaur's required attention to its best clouds and per levant performance on Earth.

[1:00:32 - 1:00:37] ▶

Well, who evolved over the war?

[1:00:37 - 1:00:42] ▶

and nuclear engineering.

[1:00:42 - 1:00:44] ▶

Sarbacher's mysterious because he studied under Einstein,

[1:00:44 - 1:00:48] ▶

assistant professor at Harvard,

[1:00:48 - 1:00:49] ▶

then goes on to work at Georgia Tech,

[1:00:49 - 1:00:51] ▶

which I think there's a line of the UFO stuff.

[1:00:51 - 1:00:53] ▶

He was, while he was at Georgia Tech,

[1:00:53 - 1:00:55] ▶

he was actually on the board of the Oak Ridge Atomic Energy.

[1:00:55 - 1:01:00] ▶

Yeah.

[1:01:00 - 1:01:01] ▶

And Oak Ridge is the first nuclear propulsion center

[1:01:01 - 1:01:04] ▶

in the US.

[1:01:04 - 1:01:05] ▶

Do you have any idea of what he was studying

[1:01:05 - 1:01:08] ▶

at Washington National Lab?

[1:01:08 - 1:01:09] ▶

It was published in the paper that he

[1:01:09 - 1:01:11] ▶

had asked for a renewal of a permit

[1:01:11 - 1:01:13] ▶

to pursue atomic research at this residential address

[1:01:13 - 1:01:19] ▶

in Washington, DC, which was his lab.

[1:01:19 - 1:01:22] ▶

Shortly after that, you read about Dr. Sarbacher,

[1:01:22 - 1:01:26] ▶

and he says, I am the director of the National Research Labs,

[1:01:26 - 1:01:33] ▶

Inc.

[1:01:33 - 1:01:34] ▶

But that's what they were calling the labs,

[1:01:34 - 1:01:37] ▶

the atomic energy labs, were the national research labs.

[1:01:37 - 1:01:41] ▶

So Sarbacher was basically saying, I am the secret director

[1:01:41 - 1:01:47] ▶

for these labs that nobody knows about.

[1:01:47 - 1:01:50] ▶

Mm.

[1:01:50 - 1:01:51] ▶

He was an atomic energy expert.

[1:01:51 - 1:01:53] ▶

His son is quoted as saying, well, my father was responsible

[1:01:53 - 1:01:58] ▶

for chasing UFOs.

[1:01:58 - 1:02:00] ▶

UFOs have visited every single nuclear base in the United States,

[1:02:00 - 1:02:06] ▶

according to Robert Hastings' fantastic book, UFOs and Nukes.

[1:02:06 - 1:02:10] ▶

The book documents well over 100 very credible eyewitnesses working on these bases, ICBM,

[1:02:10 - 1:02:16] ▶

security personnel, and radar operators.

[1:02:16 - 1:02:18] ▶

The Manhattan Project seemed very connected to UFOs.

[1:02:18 - 1:02:20] ▶

Manhattan Project, they were kind of the first blue book.

[1:02:20 - 1:02:26] ▶

You know, they were getting UFO reports back in the day.

[1:02:26 - 1:02:29] ▶

There were some people I'm colleagues with that, like, their grandparents were actually, you know,

[1:02:29 - 1:02:36] ▶

the UFO report people on the Manhattan Project.

[1:02:36 - 1:02:38] ▶

And I remember being told that.

[1:02:38 - 1:02:39] ▶

I was like, really?

[1:02:39 - 1:02:40] ▶

Holy crap, that's crazy.

[1:02:40 - 1:02:41] ▶

And Oppenheimer even helped set up UFO secrecy protocols.

[1:02:41 - 1:02:46] ▶

The question I've always asked is then wouldn't the 8,000 other Los Alamos employees in 1945

[1:02:46 - 1:02:50] ▶

see UFOs flying around the nuclear base?

[1:02:50 - 1:02:52] ▶

Wouldn't the existence of UFOs have been more broadly leaked at the time?

[1:02:52 - 1:02:56] ▶

Well, not if they were a lot of UFOs, but they were a lot of UFOs.

[1:02:56 - 1:02:58] ▶

They were like, I'm a lot of UFOs.

[1:02:58 - 1:02:59] ▶

I'm a lot of UFOs.

[1:02:59 - 1:03:00] ▶

I'm a lot of UFOs.

[1:03:00 - 1:03:01] ▶

I'm a lot of UFOs.

[1:03:01 - 1:03:02] ▶

I'm a lot of UFOs.

[1:03:02 - 1:03:03] ▶

I'm a lot of UFOs.

[1:03:03 - 1:03:04] ▶

I'm a lot of UFOs.

[1:03:04 - 1:03:05] ▶

I'm a lot of UFOs.

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I'm a lot of UFOs.

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I'm a lot of UFOs.

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I'm a lot of UFOs.

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Did they say something leaked at the time?

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Well, not if they were only visible in the air for a split second on film and the immediate

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aftermath of a nuclear detonation.

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Because when the bomb goes off, you can't get, in the first few seconds, there are no

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electronics that work.

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So you're not able to get any electrical readings or measurements.

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So all you have to look at are the films coming back from the test.

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Film that Townsend Brown may have been reviewing at Lookout Mountain Laboratory.

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serendipitously lookout mountain laboratory in townsend brown's old house is just a few blocks

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away from my house in laurel canyon so paul and i decided to pay brown's old stomping grounds a visit

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how long was he here for um 1942 to at least 1945. yeah pretty wild here he is in wonderland on

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wonderland drive in on lookout mountain in laurel canyon at the time when the navy or the air force

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are developing this radar facility and radar was one of his areas of established expertise at the

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time i started researching this it was described as oh that was a world war ii radar command

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but now that more information is being released we learned that it was the film labs for the

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manhattan engineering project you think there's a time machine in there yeah a portal yeah

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yeah all we have to do is bang on the door and break in and portal us straight into jail somewhere

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townsend brown also spent the end of his life in catalina which might be the world's biggest

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hot spot of transmedium water-based ufos a phenomenon very well documented by ufologist

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preston dennett an undersea ufo base about the catalina ridge he and sarbacher go to the bahamas

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a decent amount they go to nassau nassau he does he takes his family to nassau so what i find

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interesting there is now there are tons of rumors around this site there called atick right where a

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bunch of these possibly us usos yeah submersible ufos underwater ufos right are rumored to come out of

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the water right there and there are these underground cables as well that you see pictures of them that

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are like nobody knows why there are cables going going down there's the comms line or what is it yeah

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and why was he and robert sarbacher constantly meeting you know at nassau the the presumption of

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the book is that maybe it was the caroline group maybe it was this group that's behind the scenes kind

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of pulling the strings the caroline group refers to a consortium of international elites and private

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sector financiers who meet on a yacht called the caroline this was the private yacht of eldridge reeves

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johnson whose victor talking machine company was the predecessor of rca records the caroline group was

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simply a private enterprise intelligence operation formed between people who had very high level

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corporate capital interests to foster across the globe in 1933 johnson was allowing the smithsonian

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to use his yacht for a deep sea scientific expedition and brown was serving on the yacht as a radar and

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sonar engineer but an early stop in nassau suggests that the purpose of the trip wasn't only scientific

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its first stop was in nassau in the bahamas and the bahamas and nassau figure from time to time

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in this story there are meetings there with some of these shadowy people that we don't really know

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who they are that was a base of operations for stevenson and that when the caroline was parked

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at the port in nassau that stevenson came on board and had dinner with and then you even talk about here

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with roosevelt's quiet consent and without j edgar hoover's knowledge william stevenson began laying

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the groundwork for an intelligence network unlike anything the world had ever seen

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on the townsend brown forums a thread from 2006 describes the caroline group as a consortium morgan

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has told paul that townsend was basically cia research and he said but he was pulled away

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a couple of times for espionage work morgan is the code name for brown's long-time colleague and linda

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his daughter's love interest he's also one of the main sources for shatzkin's book if i were to recreate

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morgan's path i would say that he was working for stevenson or wackenhut in a private security

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contract and they had the pool to get him through camp perry for cia training

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another long-time brown colleague that shatzkin codenames o'reilly says something very telling he

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says that a couple of other brown inventions were handed over to other entities and this consortium

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seems to have something to do with it is this consortium a fingerprint of the caroline group

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later skunkworks director ben rich apparently said this on his deathbed to john andrews of testers motor

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corporation we already have the means to travel among the stars but these technologies are locked in black

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projects and it would take an act of god to ever get them out to benefit humanity but perhaps most

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interestingly andrews who has photographic evidence of his correspondence with rich said this it was ben

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rich's opinion that the public should not be told about ufos and extraterrestrials he believed they

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could not handle the truth ever only in the last month of his decline did he begin to feel that the

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international corporate board of directors dealing with the subject ufos could represent a bigger problem

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to the citizens personal freedom under the united states constitution than the presence of off-world

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visitors themselves so who is this international corporate board could they have something to do

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with the caroline group but townsend brown wasn't just a pawn to some shadowy consortium or three-letter

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agency he was also probably pretty high up in intel himself and he may have actually been involved in the

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original ufo crash retrieval program in 1957 brown took part in the international geophysical year

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a sweeping scientific survey of the earth whose data was meant to be shared across borders but as jan

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points out brown used this as an opportunity to gather some important national security intel that gave

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townsend an opportunity to travel around and set up these what we would call listening post for the u2s

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as they over flew soviet russia when brown returned from the international geophysical year he created

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nikep or the national investigations committee on aerial phenomena it was the first civilian organization

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dedicated to investigating ufo sightings former cia director roscoe hillenkoder who is rumored to have

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been involved in the roswell crash became a board member townsend i think he saw nikep sure you get

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information on ufos but he told linda to filter out the ones where they describe a motion like a

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fluttering leaf and those are hours he said what does he mean a fluttering lead wobble

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jan saying that american anti-gravity craft probably wobbled at the time totally comports with the problems

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that the avro car was having in the 50s the avro car would get 10 feet off the ground and start

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wobbling out of control later in the 60s through the 80s the stabilization of these man-made vehicles

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could have been perfected do you think that brown was crowdsourcing intelligence for his work like

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or do you think it was counterintelligence do you think it was recruiting do you think it was that's

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a very interesting theory i hadn't actually thought of that one i'm gonna i'll i'll

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well it's like let's give one to jesse for coming up with that one because because the way he moves

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around in all these different areas and elements it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that that could be a

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valid hypothesis if nicaap was counterintelligence which i'm fairly sure it was it began a long

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tradition of intelligence-associated civilian ufo initiatives like mufon and others a lot of these

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serve as honey traps for civilians to cough up their data to the cia and their fertile grounds for

[1:11:38 - 1:11:43] ▶

spreading disinformation the philadelphia experiment was a wacky mythical navy experiment in 1943 whose

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intention was to turn the uss eldridge invisible and teleport it from philadelphia to northfolk

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virginia the ship seemed to glow in the field and all of a sudden it flicked off instead of flicking on

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jan thinks it was a nuclear explosion a turbine exploded and the men got showered with hexafluoride

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something a fluid that had been radiated i think the philadelphia experiment did happen but the

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story we have is just an insane cover and all of this just it mullies the water very very effectively

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the real question is what was brown's involvement with it if any after all brown actually told his

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friend josh reynolds who worked closely with him that the philadelphia experiment book and later movie

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were greatly inflated brown was officially discharged from the navy in 1942 a few months before the

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experiment would have taken place townsend gets a letter telling him he is supposed to transfer his

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equipment from the university of philadelphia to the navy at norfolk and he stalled around for a month or

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two and then he his letter says for the good of the navy and to avoid court martial i hereby resign did he

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move immediately to california as shatzkin believes or did he stick around in norfolk as author in anti-gravity

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historian paul la violette believes a clue might be found in a 1942 fbi file on brown the file shows

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brown living in laurel canyon on wonderland boulevard this possibly points to shatzkin being right that he

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left the navy in 1942 and went straight to work at martin vega corporation in la this guy's now been

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discredited from the navy but oh he shows up at this aviation facility yeah that is underneath this

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speaking of camouflage he was actually under a canopy of camouflage but the fbi file begets more

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questions why would the fbi even have a file on brown in the first place especially right after the

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philadelphia experiment supposedly took place well the file even says that townsend brown knew more

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about radar detection than any individual in the u.s navy they also say that prior to brown's move to la

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he was stationed at norfolk virginia in the atlantic fleet school this is exactly where the philadelphia

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experiment was rumored to take place the file also repeats that brown both cheated on his wife

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but was also a self-confessed homosexual this seems like a classic j edgar hoover intimidation tactic

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planting fake compromise on a key individual to ensure future compliance so if the philadelphia

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experiment did actually involve sensitive u.s equities it might make sense to have this compromising file

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on brown according to the 1971 australian intelligence document u.s air force chief of staff

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general nathan twining stated that the best brains in the air force are working on this problem of

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unidentified flying objects trying to solve this riddle the document adds that general twining was

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probably not referring to project blue book blue book was just the public facing ufo investigations committee

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the year is 1960 residents near hartford connecticut see a greenish fireball in the sky it makes a loud

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noise as it comes crashing down to earth an observer hears the crash and follows it going outside to

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find a shed on fire metal debris is found in the vicinity the cover story was oh it's a russian

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satellite satellite that exploded but that was sort of debunked townsend goes to the location in new

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england somewhere and he has permission to take the material project blue book wants it by the time

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they get there this nobody that no one's ever heard of at that time has disappeared with it

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we know about this crash thanks to ufo researcher michael sorens who had collected the file from the

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smithsonian's archives in the 80s but had never noticed that townsend brown was mentioned in it

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according to swords a chemical analysis of the metal was said to show that the thing was neither

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satellite nor meteorite do you have any idea what the material was made of the analysis said aluminum

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and some form of barium and where have we seen barium before both on the chalkboard at the bonson

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labs where townsend brown worked and in his winter haven proposal brown brings up barium

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to be used in one of his motors for his gravitator discs both aluminum and barium are high k dielectric

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materials when used as the insulator they would massively increase the thrust of brown's gravitators

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just like magnesium bismuth barium titanate is a ceramic that has an extremely high k ratio that's

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the the dielectric capacity of it like water has a dielectric capacity of zero and barium titanate is in

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like the four figures barium is the heaviest stable alkaline earth in fact brown's later work in the

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70s and 80s often revolved around a weird field he liked to call piezo electrics basically looking for

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charged rocks that can store and discharge high electromagnetic charge in other words materials

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like aluminum barium and magnesium bismuth with high k factors i used to say townsend is was a

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radiation man but when i dug into it i realized townsend was always a materials man his father owned

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a sand molding company what are they doing with sand molding but making composites because you have to put

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bonding to your sand so townsend grew up with that kind of mind but here's maybe the craziest part of

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this whole ufo crash retrieval story the ufo material initially goes to fred whipple and j allen hynek

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at harvard's moonwatch an observation and collection program for the world's first satellites robert friend

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at blue book also expresses intense interest in the samples but all townsend brown had to do was show up at

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moonwatches office and flash his credentials he's then able to take immediate control of the material

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basically declaring eminent domain what exact credentials did townsend brown have to flash to

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completely front-run and stiff-arm blue book project blue book was the best i could do at the time

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because i felt they had a real project going on that was secret is that true and the air force did oh i

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didn't know that the manhattan project left custody of it and then it would go into the atomic energy

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commission and then it would go into the department of energy which has its own line of clearances

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linda brown often describes her father as being part of a deeper draft or a much more authoritative

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part of the intelligence community than your typical agency workers if true this ufo crash retrieval story

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definitely corroborates that the thing i keep going back and forth on is like was this all just

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gravity control tech that we figured out in the 40s and 50s you have more crashes then because the the

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it works less well because you're you're just starting off so you have crashes and then you have

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you have him trying to like you know do tech protection and figure out what civilians know about

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this through nicaap or whatever or you read about him and he's talking very what seems to be

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earnestly and sincerely about ufos and time travel in his private life in a way that doesn't feel

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fabricated or like counterintelligence that he would like foist on his family well and so are the ufos

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time travel are the ufos just gravity control machines is that a false dichotomy or are the ufos

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extraterrestrials or maybe all of that well you just went through a b a b and c don't forget d

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d is all the above right yeah yeah what do you what do you think i think all of the above you think

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all of you i think all the above okay my hunch is that if you're able to somehow put yourself

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backward or forward in the space-time continuum you'll be in a different dimension not in the

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same dimension well that recalls a conversation between morgan and towns and brown where morgan's

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in his office and towns around said what what if we had the ability to time travel you know i believe

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we're going to be able to do it in our lifetime yeah and we'll have a list of people who will be

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able to do this right and morgan says i want to be on that list right towns and brown says i think

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he will be on that list and he says what would the first thing you do if we had time travel and uh

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morgan says i'd go back and i'd save my sister because his sister sister drowned in a pool accident

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and that caused his parents his whole family to sort of break up disintegrated around

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in 1929 he wrote a paper it was kind of cutting back but yeah 1929 he writes a paper about

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the minor quantum right and never sees the light of day later while he's at martin he writes another

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paper called the structure of space and that is you can that's available right um why do you think

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the minor quantum paper and that's right when he gets recruited by the navy dude the navy saw it and

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then recruited him and the that is now classified because it's impossible to find it it is and you can't

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find any reference to it townsend brown's scientific paper which we do have access to is called the

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structure of space which he wrote in the early 40s while working at martin corporation in the paper

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you have two kind of gravities gravity wells which are positively charged and attractive and gravity

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hills which are negatively charged and repulsive most matter is weakly positively charged because the

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protons in an atom outweigh its electrons when you combine a positive and a negative charge so a gravity well

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and a gravity hill you create a wave a wave that a craft like a ufo could serve you're riding a wave

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basically you create a wave and you're on top of the tsunami wave and you're riding across space-time

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perhaps one of the more bizarre aspects of townsend brown's work is his lifelong obsession with a

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concept called sidereal radiation this idea came from the fact that the sun and the moon's positions

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actually had minor effects on his gravitators in other words there's some form of radiation coming

[1:21:50 - 1:21:56] ▶

from the solar system that actually affects gravity and creates gravitational anomalies he noticed

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fluctuations in those effects which seemed to have some um bearing on the immediate gravitational field

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the position of the sun or position of the moon and the influence of those gravitational fields yeah and

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he was very very interested through the entire course of his life in what that radiation what those signals

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one of the things he did was build these devices that he called electrometers and they were receiving maybe

[1:22:25 - 1:22:32] ▶

neutrinos we don't know but every so often there'd be an anomaly and the anomaly started to show up in

[1:22:33 - 1:22:42] ▶

patterns and he started to find well the patterns correlate to the sidereal calendar sidereal calendar

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being the calendar by the stars not the sun but he was doing that um electrometer stuff even

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on catalina at the end of his life

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at first i thought this was the part of brown's work that you could resoundingly write off it seemed

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like complete quackery to me and then just a few weeks ago i had a call with a prominent harvard

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physicist this person is a secret fan of towns and brown's and is very interested in sidereal radiation

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but chose to remain anonymous because of brown's stigma and i'm not talking about avi loeb somebody

[1:23:20 - 1:23:26] ▶

obviously interested in finding extraterrestrial life you can think of me just as a farm boy that is curious

[1:23:26 - 1:23:32] ▶

rupert sheldrake a british experimentalist who's a little more unconventional also discusses the

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preponderance of gravitational anomalies and how the gravitational constant isn't all that constant

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but i said well then what about big g the gravitational constant known in the trade as big g

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it's written with a capital g newton's universal gravitational constant that's varied by more than 1.3

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in recent years and it seems to vary from place to place and from time to time and he said oh well

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those are just errors and unfortunately there are quite big errors with big g so i said well what if

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it's really changing i mean perhaps it is really changing and then i looked at how they do it what

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happens is they measure it in different labs they get different values on different days and then they

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average them and then other labs around the world do the same and they come out usually with a rather

[1:24:18 - 1:24:23] ▶

different average and then the international committee on metrology meets every 10 years or so

[1:24:23 - 1:24:28] ▶

and average the ones from labs around the world to come up with the value of big g but what if g were

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actually fluctuating what if it changed there's already evidence actually that it changes throughout

[1:24:34 - 1:24:40] ▶

the day and throughout the year the other thing that brown's structure of space tries to do is revive

[1:24:40 - 1:24:45] ▶

the concept of the ether the 19th century concept that empty space is actually full of substance

[1:24:45 - 1:24:52] ▶

the michelson morley experiments involved a set of optical observations to detect the ether in the

[1:24:52 - 1:24:58] ▶

1890s in short they did not detect the ether but the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

[1:24:58 - 1:25:05] ▶

and even albert einstein who vehemently opposed the ether earlier in his career became open to its

[1:25:05 - 1:25:10] ▶

compatibility with general relativity when you are trying to come up with this analogy between

[1:25:10 - 1:25:16] ▶

electromagnetism and general relativity to explain some of these effects are you dealing only

[1:25:16 - 1:25:22] ▶

with the levi-chevita connection of the metric as einstein did or are you considering i'm basically

[1:25:22 - 1:25:26] ▶

dealing with the metric coefficients by postulating a dielectric vacuum whose dielectric constant

[1:25:27 - 1:25:37] ▶

values for say epsilon of mu the permeability and permittivity of the vacuum can be manipulated

[1:25:37 - 1:25:44] ▶

and once you manipulate those you're manipulating c which is one of the screw to mu epsilon

[1:25:44 - 1:25:50] ▶

and so once you begin to manipulate c then you can change effects associated with all of the and so

[1:25:50 - 1:25:58] ▶

you could with this with this polarizable vacuum approach which i published in physics journal

[1:25:58 - 1:26:06] ▶

you can get all of the quote tests of general relativity and so on so so the fact that you might

[1:26:07 - 1:26:14] ▶

be able to preserve that further by taking into account the fact that underlying electromagnetism is

[1:26:14 - 1:26:21] ▶

is vacuum fluctuations which have the effect of controlling the value for epsilon and mu so then

[1:26:21 - 1:26:31] ▶

you say okay well if i want to go over to general relativity maybe i can control the underlying values for

[1:26:31 - 1:26:38] ▶

the metric coefficients if empty space or the quantum vacuum is filled with a medium the most efficient

[1:26:38 - 1:26:46] ▶

way to communicate over vast distances is to tug on the medium itself not to send a signal through it

[1:26:46 - 1:26:53] ▶

that's why townsend brown's winter haven proposal doesn't only involve exotic propulsion it involves

[1:26:53 - 1:26:59] ▶

novel communications we're cutting right here to one of the central questions of i guess all of modern

[1:26:59 - 1:27:06] ▶

science is space empty or is there something to it and whether or not there are ways to influence

[1:27:06 - 1:27:14] ▶

what we can call the quantum continuum or or whatever is that space between the nucleus and the electron

[1:27:14 - 1:27:21] ▶

orbit descartes called it the plenum now when we talk about transmitting sound waves for example

[1:27:21 - 1:27:27] ▶

we transmit the sound waves through the through a medium and they travel as in a way what townsend

[1:27:28 - 1:27:35] ▶

brown seems to be describing in the structure of space is there is something that may have been

[1:27:35 - 1:27:43] ▶

dismissed in the michelson morley experiment which was unable to detect ether that there is still something

[1:27:43 - 1:27:49] ▶

of for lack of a better word substance to empty space and that if you can tug

[1:27:49 - 1:27:57] ▶

on that empty space that rather than sending a wave through a medium you're tugging on the rope

[1:27:57 - 1:28:04] ▶

itself and the the the tug appears on the other end instantaneously and you can do that through

[1:28:04 - 1:28:11] ▶

really high energy output right that's super interesting finally the weirdest component of brown's work

[1:28:13 - 1:28:20] ▶

is time travel the way this might work would be somewhat like the legendary der glock or the bell

[1:28:20 - 1:28:26] ▶

was described in nazi germany an ss officer named jacob sporenberg documented magnetic field separation

[1:28:26 - 1:28:34] ▶

vortex compression all surrounding a possible anti-gravity machine this bell-shaped machine was

[1:28:34 - 1:28:41] ▶

also supposed to manipulate time under high voltages originally i thought this sounded absolutely nuts and

[1:28:41 - 1:28:47] ▶

i'm still not sure what to think of it but walter gerlach who was a very well respected physicist at

[1:28:47 - 1:28:52] ▶

the time and was super interested in anti-gravity apparently worked on the project as did ernest graowitz

[1:28:52 - 1:28:59] ▶

head of the ss medical experiments division under which josef mengelow worked there's even a polish

[1:28:59 - 1:29:05] ▶

journalist named igor bitkowski who seems to be very high conviction that the bell did in fact exist and it

[1:29:05 - 1:29:11] ▶

would make sense that these characters might be involved if you're putting actual people in a high voltage

[1:29:11 - 1:29:16] ▶

environment and trying to make them travel through time in fact we know from nikola tesla that as long as

[1:29:16 - 1:29:21] ▶

the current is low voltages can be very high and the electrical charge can go through the human body without

[1:29:21 - 1:29:27] ▶

doing too much damage and nick cook source dan marcus told him that the germans had been able to slow

[1:29:27 - 1:29:33] ▶

time within the area of the bell's torsion field the ceramic line chamber to one thousandth the rate at which

[1:29:33 - 1:29:40] ▶

it was progressing outside if you sat inside the chamber for a year what you've done is slow time

[1:29:40 - 1:29:46] ▶

down on the inside while on the outside it progresses at a normal rate step outside the chamber after a

[1:29:46 - 1:29:52] ▶

year is ticked by on your calendar and you find yourself a thousand years into the future again this

[1:29:52 - 1:29:57] ▶

concept seems absolutely insane to me but we do know that time slows down the closer you get to a

[1:29:57 - 1:30:03] ▶

gravitational source general relativity you know teaches us that that clocks either speed up or slow

[1:30:03 - 1:30:08] ▶

down you know based on out whether near a gravitational source or not you know one over r squared over

[1:30:08 - 1:30:16] ▶

distance you know you can create a gravitational source in one of two ways through mass or through

[1:30:16 - 1:30:21] ▶

energy so with high enough energy maybe you could slow time another theoretical framework that may explain

[1:30:21 - 1:30:27] ▶

brown's work is ferris williams 5d dynamic theory ferris was a colleague of okie shannon former manager

[1:30:27 - 1:30:34] ▶

of special projects at los alamos national labs shannon is on record saying if we were to build an

[1:30:34 - 1:30:41] ▶

anti-gravitational device it would be built on the principles involved in williams theory and in 1988

[1:30:41 - 1:30:47] ▶

the corporation saic was tasked with studying electric propulsion and anti-gravity for edwards air force base

[1:30:47 - 1:30:55] ▶

their paper stated that dr james woodward's work on anti-gravity which is built on townsend brown's

[1:30:55 - 1:31:01] ▶

research on capacitors demonstrated theoretical validity and was showing enough progress to

[1:31:01 - 1:31:06] ▶

warrant further support and funding the paper also said that ferris williams was essential to the

[1:31:06 - 1:31:12] ▶

research and suggested that a five-dimensional framework like williams has could lead to unified

[1:31:12 - 1:31:18] ▶

field theory and novel propulsion methods which again brings us back to what nick cook's pseudonymous

[1:31:18 - 1:31:24] ▶

source dan marcus told him but here was the truly wild part the vortex marcus said wasn't a three

[1:31:24 - 1:31:30] ▶

dimensional phenomena or even a four-dimensional one it couldn't be for a torsion field to be able

[1:31:30 - 1:31:36] ▶

to interact with gravity and electromagnetism it had to be endowed with attributes that went beyond the

[1:31:36 - 1:31:41] ▶

three dimensions of left right up and down and the four-dimensional time field they inhabited

[1:31:41 - 1:31:47] ▶

something that the theorists for convenience sake labeled a fifth dimension hyperspace and just look at

[1:31:47 - 1:31:54] ▶

what novel propulsion expert physicist and ufo legend eric davis writes while attempting to debunk

[1:31:54 - 1:32:00] ▶

the byfield brown effect in his frontiers of propulsion science he concedes that an air force

[1:32:00 - 1:32:05] ▶

study postulated that by assuming a five-dimensional continuum an electro-gravitic coupling could be

[1:32:05 - 1:32:11] ▶

derived to explain the byfield brown effect which again begs the question why would the air force

[1:32:11 - 1:32:17] ▶

continue to be motivated to derive a theoretical framework for the byfield brown effect if it doesn't

[1:32:17 - 1:32:22] ▶

work in the first place or if it can just be attributed to ion wind if it's just attributable

[1:32:22 - 1:32:27] ▶

to ion wind you don't need another framework this brings us to perhaps the most practical but also

[1:32:27 - 1:32:33] ▶

revolutionary theory around brown's work one that doesn't involve any unknowable trans-temporal fifth

[1:32:33 - 1:32:39] ▶

dimension what this five-dimensional theory appears to do is tie together electromagnetism with gravity

[1:32:39 - 1:32:46] ▶

gravity right if you can do that if you can take advantage of his expanded maxwell equations then maybe

[1:32:46 - 1:32:53] ▶

you can build an anti-gravity device shannon is probably talking about a theory called extended

[1:32:53 - 1:32:59] ▶

electrodynamics a theory i personally learned about from a top navy scientist who chose to remain anonymous

[1:32:59 - 1:33:06] ▶

for fear of reprisals from his superiors for discussing this topic when you introduce the scalar field you now

[1:33:06 - 1:33:14] ▶

have the possibility of at least three completely new kinds of waves extended electrodynamics only involves

[1:33:14 - 1:33:21] ▶

a few tweaks to classical electrodynamics but those tweaks actually just represent a more faithful

[1:33:21 - 1:33:28] ▶

adherence to the original equations of electromagnetism developed by james clerk maxwell way back in 1865.

[1:33:28 - 1:33:35] ▶

you see the original set of maxwell's 20 equations involved one equation for each of the three xyz

[1:33:35 - 1:33:42] ▶

vector components of the electric and magnetic fields but a british physicist named oliver heavyside

[1:33:42 - 1:33:48] ▶

who came right after maxwell condensed these 20 original equations down to four simple vector

[1:33:48 - 1:33:54] ▶

calculus equations in the name of simplicity by doing that heavyside only left room for one kind of

[1:33:54 - 1:34:01] ▶

traveling electromagnetic wave your conventional transverse hertzian wave this involves electric and

[1:34:01 - 1:34:07] ▶

magnetic vectors perpendicular to each other and to the propagation direction of the wave another

[1:34:07 - 1:34:13] ▶

physicist named lorentz developed an equation that set a constraint between the two potential functions

[1:34:13 - 1:34:19] ▶

scalar and vector potentials this lorentz equation is a staple in classical electrodynamics he set the

[1:34:19 - 1:34:25] ▶

equation or the sum of the derivatives of the vector and scalar potentials equal to zero this imposed an

[1:34:25 - 1:34:32] ▶

artificial and arbitrary constraint that limited the range of things these equations could describe in

[1:34:32 - 1:34:37] ▶

nature things like the bohm-erenoff effect which seem pretty anomalous in the classical electrodynamics

[1:34:37 - 1:34:43] ▶

framework where electromagnetic potentials can be present without the presence of magnetic or electric

[1:34:43 - 1:34:49] ▶

fields with the new equations of extended electrodynamics you don't just have magnetic and electric fields you

[1:34:49 - 1:34:56] ▶

also have what's called a scalar field and this makes possible at least three new kinds of waves scalar

[1:34:56 - 1:35:04] ▶

scalar longitudinal and helicoidal these waves often don't decay in the same way traditional hertzian waves

[1:35:04 - 1:35:11] ▶

do and they also interact with electrons differently these scalar waves may actually couple with gravity more

[1:35:11 - 1:35:18] ▶

tightly than traditional hertzian waves explaining the byfield brown effect this may explain a lot of the anomalous

[1:35:18 - 1:35:24] ▶

effects that townsend brown and other high voltage physicists have gotten over the years according

[1:35:24 - 1:35:30] ▶

to this navy scientist these new waves involved in extended electrodynamics can unlock novel propulsion

[1:35:30 - 1:35:37] ▶

better underwater and deep space communication and even help bring about clean and free energy

[1:35:37 - 1:35:43] ▶

these scalar and vector potentials that the quantum field breaks down into might have been what townsend

[1:35:43 - 1:35:48] ▶

brown was describing in his lost 1929 paper the minor quantum it's impossible to find it it is and you can't

[1:35:48 - 1:35:57] ▶

find any reference to it and these quantum potentials may even have something to do with spooky phenomena

[1:35:57 - 1:36:03] ▶

like remote viewing just think about it information transfer in remote viewing seems to transcend space-time

[1:36:03 - 1:36:10] ▶

and not decay like any of the other four forces in physics would was townsend brown at all connected with

[1:36:10 - 1:36:15] ▶

remote viewing research the cia was funding at stanford research institute and linda who was visiting her

[1:36:15 - 1:36:22] ▶

father and atherton at that time remember seeing a check from the townsend brown foundation to stanford

[1:36:22 - 1:36:31] ▶

four hundred thousand dollars finally scalar longitudinal waves may also explain the atomic ufo connection

[1:36:31 - 1:36:38] ▶

detonate a nuclear weapon and you're probably creating these longitudinal waves sending some sort of signal to ufos

[1:36:38 - 1:36:45] ▶

the

[1:36:45 - 1:36:49] ▶

congressman do you think that uh these reverse engineering programs have made any progress or do

[1:36:49 - 1:36:54] ▶

you think yeah i do i just don't think they can they're going to scrape if they did we wouldn't

[1:36:54 - 1:36:57] ▶

we would own the skies if they had it isn't it in their best interest to just get immunity for

[1:36:59 - 1:37:04] ▶

themselves and try to refresh the talent pool if these people are you know it's they're all old and

[1:37:04 - 1:37:08] ▶

it's completely compartmentalized and they haven't made you know in the wilson but they're completely

[1:37:08 - 1:37:13] ▶

arrogant they're completely arrogant they're above the laws personally i have no desire to gratuitously

[1:37:13 - 1:37:19] ▶

out american defense projects that help keep our population safe i'm pro america as evidenced by the

[1:37:19 - 1:37:25] ▶

name of my channel and pro national security and i was actually hesitant to make this video because of

[1:37:25 - 1:37:30] ▶

that but in speaking to people closer to the inside than me and voicing my own apprehensions around these

[1:37:30 - 1:37:36] ▶

revelations i've gotten absolutely no good reasons as to why the broader frameworks around townsend

[1:37:36 - 1:37:42] ▶

brown's work should not be open source in fact at times i've been encouraged by anonymous people on

[1:37:42 - 1:37:49] ▶

the inside to make this video because of the potentially very exciting civil side applications

[1:37:49 - 1:37:54] ▶

brown's work might lead to and if speculating on some hidden black aviation projects from 30 to 40 years

[1:37:54 - 1:38:00] ▶

ago that have already been speculated on ad nauseum by a ton of other people helps garner resources and

[1:38:00 - 1:38:07] ▶

support for these new scientific frameworks it feels like my moral duty to shed some more light

[1:38:07 - 1:38:13] ▶

on those programs as evidence for the usefulness of brown's work the legacy ufo program needs to come

[1:38:13 - 1:38:19] ▶

forward and not leave david grush completely hanging out to dry they need to have some courage and stop

[1:38:19 - 1:38:24] ▶

thinking about their own selfish myopic interests i should personally disclose that most of my money is in

[1:38:24 - 1:38:30] ▶

a chemical combustion rocket company with no plans to explore exotic electromagnetic propulsion so i'm

[1:38:30 - 1:38:36] ▶

actually arguing against my own interests here but for those of society and shining a light on brown's

[1:38:36 - 1:38:42] ▶

work it's my hope that people in the legacy program begin to act similarly it would even make sense for

[1:38:42 - 1:38:48] ▶

them to do that from a national security perspective the program should want to out itself yeah it's like

[1:38:48 - 1:38:53] ▶

yeah protect what could be weaponized but generally allow it to be studied openly but there's

[1:38:53 - 1:39:00] ▶

absolutely like no coaching plan that i'm aware of to do so now this wouldn't be an american alchemy

[1:39:00 - 1:39:06] ▶

episode if we didn't throw an insane wild card at you at the end of the video my last guest diana

[1:39:06 - 1:39:11] ▶

pisulka an incredible religious studies professor at unc wilmington writes in her first book american

[1:39:11 - 1:39:17] ▶

cosmic about a member of a secret space program she codenames tyler tyler who's still a pseudonym

[1:39:17 - 1:39:24] ▶

for a person who is a mission controller and works in the space force i've personally protected tyler's

[1:39:24 - 1:39:29] ▶

identity in every interview i've done until now because this show isn't about doxing people it's about

[1:39:29 - 1:39:35] ▶

substantive ideas but at this point his name is literally all over the internet even in interviews

[1:39:35 - 1:39:40] ▶

with close to a million views so i'll just mention it because it leads to maybe the trippiest connection

[1:39:40 - 1:39:45] ▶

i've made in this whole townsend brown saga tyler from diana's book is a nasa mission controller named

[1:39:45 - 1:39:51] ▶

timothy taylor taylor wrote an autobiography in march of 2003 called launch fever before anybody knew

[1:39:51 - 1:40:00] ▶

who taylor was in 2014 townsend brown's daughter linda wrote a review of taylor's book she writes an

[1:40:00 - 1:40:07] ▶

engineer's first-hand experience of what it means to be a part of the space program a charming legacy to his

[1:40:07 - 1:40:13] ▶

daughter and all of us so what is tim taylor's connection with townsend brown well the son of

[1:40:13 - 1:40:19] ▶

frequent ufo experiencer and personal friend of tim taylor's chris bledsoe had some interesting

[1:40:19 - 1:40:25] ▶

things to say about the topic on twitter he wrote that tim taylor personally told my father he was in

[1:40:25 - 1:40:31] ▶

an elite group called the nassau group headed up by t townsend brown also insinuated they had time

[1:40:31 - 1:40:37] ▶

travel technology so what is tim taylor's connection with townsend brown was brown the chief

[1:40:37 - 1:40:43] ▶

architect of a secret parallel space program townsend brown had a ufo experience in catalina

[1:40:43 - 1:40:50] ▶

as a teenager is that right yes and i know the exact spot he was where he was standing i used to ride my

[1:40:50 - 1:40:58] ▶

horse up that ridge it approached him it actually approached him and he said that he learned so much

[1:40:58 - 1:41:08] ▶

standing there with that ball of light that he went back to his which at the time was he had a lab in

[1:41:08 - 1:41:17] ▶

pasadena it was funded by his parents so he had his own private lab and he said he went to work immediately

[1:41:17 - 1:41:26] ▶

and he worked that was that was the beginning of his life and he said that everything that he ever

[1:41:26 - 1:41:34] ▶

learned about his work he learned instantly everything physics has sadly not produced any forward progress

[1:41:34 - 1:41:46] ▶

over the last 50 years even the top string theorists are finally waking up to the futility of their

[1:41:46 - 1:41:52] ▶

abstract math this leads us to our next point unorthodox thinking does not scale with iq unfortunately

[1:41:52 - 1:42:00] ▶

a bunch of really smart physicists have been led like sheep to slaughter into the wrong frameworks and

[1:42:00 - 1:42:06] ▶

as a result they've contributed nothing to society academic institutions worldwide have been engaged in a

[1:42:06 - 1:42:12] ▶

massive brain drain quite simply the smartest people are working on the dumbest problems until now we've only

[1:42:12 - 1:42:19] ▶

been able to manipulate one of the four fundamental forces of physics in a lab electromagnetism if we can

[1:42:19 - 1:42:26] ▶

manipulate any of the others like gravity it opens up a world of possibilities that include interstellar travel

[1:42:26 - 1:42:33] ▶

which is much as elon musk loves to tell you rocketry will accomplish it simply won't with conventional

[1:42:33 - 1:42:39] ▶

combustion propulsion propulsion it would take 80 000 years to get to the nearest star system proxima

[1:42:39 - 1:42:45] ▶

centauri that's simply unworkable and nuclear thermal propulsion only speeds that up by maybe 50

[1:42:45 - 1:42:51] ▶

we need to be able to manipulate space time itself as townsend brown conceived i think our whole space

[1:42:52 - 1:43:00] ▶

program is a little ridiculous per the pineapple and p analogy where uh you have all this insane amount of

[1:43:00 - 1:43:07] ▶

power that it takes to just put these little objects in space most most of the fuel in a saturn

[1:43:07 - 1:43:13] ▶

5 rocket yeah is burned to get the rest of the fuel off the launch pad it's just pure brute force and

[1:43:13 - 1:43:20] ▶

then you just make it into low earth orbit or you know it's just it's very i mean even if you think

[1:43:20 - 1:43:25] ▶

about starship which is uh spacex's you know 120 to 200 ton rocket if you think about what it has to do

[1:43:25 - 1:43:33] ▶

just to get to the moon so because of the tonnage which is a wild amount of i mean that that's

[1:43:33 - 1:43:38] ▶

unprecedented amount of mass that we're putting in space with this rocket um one of them goes up into

[1:43:38 - 1:43:45] ▶

low earth orbit it burns nine tenths of its fuel tank and then it's floating around in low earth orbit

[1:43:45 - 1:43:51] ▶

with one tenth of the fuel tank then you have to get another one up into low earth orbit it does butt to

[1:43:51 - 1:43:57] ▶

butt refueling of the first one so you get you end up with two tenths and then you have a third one and so

[1:43:57 - 1:44:02] ▶

that literally the the nasa contract with spacex to get to the moon uh-huh involves like 10 of these

[1:44:02 - 1:44:09] ▶

butt-to-butt refuelings which god help you if you think that that's gonna be hard to do yeah and just

[1:44:09 - 1:44:16] ▶

to get to the moon and then i think about the earth having all these bizarre geomagnetic anomalies where

[1:44:16 - 1:44:23] ▶

you have these almost it seems like portals on earth where maybe you don't maybe you don't have to do

[1:44:23 - 1:44:29] ▶

this sort of like floating through space model like endlessly floating through space you're you

[1:44:29 - 1:44:34] ▶

know things that are like light years away maybe you can pull more on the on the you know the

[1:44:34 - 1:44:39] ▶

substance itself on the substance of space yeah yeah right well there you go and maybe it's all the towns

[1:44:39 - 1:44:44] ▶

and brown stuff and maybe the real space program is is that and if you even look at like carl sagan's

[1:44:44 - 1:44:49] ▶

uh contact like it yeah it's like this crazy hot it's like you go into a wormhole or something in this

[1:44:50 - 1:44:58] ▶

space super high energy tank and maybe that's that's the real interesting space program brown's work

[1:44:58 - 1:45:05] ▶

is definitely not the current state of the art in propulsion i'll leave it to smarter people than me

[1:45:05 - 1:45:10] ▶

to debate what type of space-time engineering engine is best alcubierre warp drive microwave beam

[1:45:10 - 1:45:16] ▶

propulsion or otherwise but many of these exotic propulsion mechanisms are derived from brown's

[1:45:16 - 1:45:23] ▶

fundamental unlock and so that's why almost a hundred years after he discovered it i really

[1:45:23 - 1:45:29] ▶

think that at the very least his work should be open source and better understood by the average

[1:45:29 - 1:45:34] ▶

science and engineering student all the physical world stuff we were promised in the 50s and 60s was

[1:45:34 - 1:45:42] ▶

in the in the realm of flying cars and flying saucers and and interplanetary travel and colonization and

[1:45:42 - 1:45:48] ▶

and you know you had all this sci-fi at the time that was aspirational it wasn't dystopian there does

[1:45:48 - 1:45:53] ▶

seem to be this point in the 60s and 70s where the future ended mid-century america was full of hope and

[1:45:53 - 1:46:01] ▶

utopian dreams of the future townsend brown brings us back to that future speaking of back to the future

[1:46:01 - 1:46:08] ▶

was hollywood dropping some breadcrumbs and naming the wacky scientist in the movie doc brown you're the only one that's noticed that uh so i congratulate you

[1:46:08 - 1:46:16] ▶

his flux capacitor makes time travel possible back to the 50s the moment physics went astray

[1:46:16 - 1:46:23] ▶

and the movie takes place in 1985 the year of townsend brown's death townsend brown was an unrefined

[1:46:24 - 1:46:31] ▶

not super educated inventor who made real breakthroughs so in that vein i'd like to offer a 50 000 bounty to

[1:46:31 - 1:46:39] ▶

anyone who can prove the byfield brown effect under two conditions number one is the person has to

[1:46:39 - 1:46:46] ▶

conduct the experiment in a vacuum chamber to prove that the thrust effect isn't due to ion wind and

[1:46:46 - 1:46:52] ▶

number two you have to let us film it so reach out to usa.alchemy at gmail.com if you're interested

[1:46:52 - 1:46:59] ▶

and please if possible lead with any experience you have doing experiments like these but as i've said i

[1:46:59 - 1:47:05] ▶

have no dog in this fight so i will also pay the fifty thousand dollars to anyone who definitively disproves

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the byfield brown effect as long as i feel like they are a good faith actor that would kind of blow

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but hey it would get us closer to reality again as a ba in history who rarely attended his college

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courses and has completely armchair takes on physics i'm not sure whether brown's experiments made their

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way into deep black aerospace in the form of exotic ionic propulsion or more fundamental gravity manipulation

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but i think either makes him dramatically more interesting than his blatantly manipulated wikipedia page

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and both would probably lay better foundations for an alternative lineage of very advanced aviation

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propulsion that represents a better future path to interplanetary travel so let's end the science

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embargo our desperately declining multi-polar world needs it and the ghost of townsend brown deserves it

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do you think that townsend brown and morgan know how to time travel

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yeah you do yeah i do and what do you think townsend brown's goal and time travel is um maybe the end

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result of all this is to bring the art and beauty that the human species is capable of to the rest of the cosmos

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i said more crazy in the last three and a half hours and i've said in 72 years yeah

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yeah well i have i have one final question for you linda which is if your father uh was maybe a time

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traveler what do you think he's up to right now oh boy i don't know if there's something happening that's

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that's true and dangerous probably would be in the middle of it

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in other words if if someone was trying to get ready to launch some sort of program

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my dad would be rearranging their figures so they wouldn't come up with what they thought

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wow

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it

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