2,269 segments
And he said, I'm going to play a tone.
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And I want you to mentally hum that tone.
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And he said that you will eventually feel a connection.
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The line will change.
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When I saw the sine wave move, I went, oh, okay.
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Well, there's a mental disconnect there that that's not supposed to be happening.
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That this is not, this is not possible.
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Our guest today is an Air Force sergeant who worked at the highest levels on classified
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projects in electronics and signals intelligence for the United States government.
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We have thorough documentation of his military records.
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His service is not something you can really argue with, nor is his mental health.
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This is the most nonchalant conversation I've ever had about alien telepathic communication.
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In this exclusive long-form interview, retired technical sergeant Dan Sherman claims that
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while serving in the Air Force in the early 90s, he was recruited for an extremely classified
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program at the NSA, or National Security Agency.
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This program was called Project Preserve Destiny.
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Project Preserve Destiny's purpose?
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To telepathically decode alien signals for the NSA.
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Alien signals that seem to telepathically transmit descriptions of alien abductions across the
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Alien signals that ultimately gave our very curious guest answers about the very nature of
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the alien presence on Earth.
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How these beings travel.
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How they conceive of time.
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What they think about humans.
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And much, much more.
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Dan Sherman was originally told by the Air Force captain who read him into the program
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that he was given this telepathic ability by the aliens themselves.
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When they abducted Sherman's pregnant mother in the early 1960s and altered his genetics
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while he was a fetus in her womb.
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This genetic blueprint would allow him to grow into what the NSA would dub an intuitive communicator.
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With the IC communication, you can feel it in your brain.
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Now, you can't localize it.
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It's not a localization.
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But I can feel like it's in that area of my brain right there.
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Sherman believes the NSA may even have tracked him since childhood into his young adulthood
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and military service until he was finally read into the program.
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Do you think that the NSA or powers that be know that this interview is happening?
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Because of the extremely sensitive nature of this NSA program and its ties to black programs,
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Dan tries to abstain mentioning which bases this Project Preserve Destiny was conducted at.
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But my researchers and I were able to locate one of these bases,
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and I bring it up at the end of this interview, catching Sherman a bit off guard.
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Not only that, but at the end of this video, we explore an independent researcher's use of the Freedom of Information Act
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to learn more about Project Preserve Destiny.
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He sent a request to the government to see all of the files on it.
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As you'll see, both the Air Force and NSA's responses to his request are fairly telling.
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The point is, the skeptics can have at it, but this case isn't going away.
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It's very hard to dismiss.
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I'd argue that Dan Sherman's story is one of the most important UFO legacy program-related accounts we have to contend with.
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So sit back, relax, and prepare to have your worldview crumble
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with this week's very courageous American alchemist, retired sergeant, intuitive alien communicator,
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and UFO whistleblower, Dan Sherman.
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Dan Sherman, thank you so much for being here.
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This, for me, is a dream come true and has been a long time coming.
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I've read your incredible book, Above Black.
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And it documents an experience that, to me, is so fascinating.
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It's kind of, in some ways, high strangeness.
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It doesn't comport with a lot of the other stories.
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And so, to me, that is, like, the perfect combo of, like, what I want to investigate,
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because you seem like a really cool, lucid guy.
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And then you're talking about being an intuitive communicator, you know, downloading signals from aliens for the NSA.
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Which is pretty amazing.
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And downloading is an interesting description, but it definitely was, you couldn't see it, so it looked like it was downloading.
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Or decrypting, or I don't know.
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I like to say receiving, but...
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Why do you like to say that?
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Well, downloading kind of denotes some sort of machine, or, you know, we associate downloading with bits and data.
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And it wasn't like that.
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It was just a thought.
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It was a thought that came.
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So, I just try to keep it organic, as opposed to machine-related.
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And I know we got, you know, in the book, I talk about machines and how I interface with the computer and all that.
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So, there is a machine component in my training, but after that, it wasn't really much of a machine, so.
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Well, why don't we take things back to your childhood?
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Where'd you grow up?
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Grew up in a lot of places.
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Between kindergarten and 12th grade, I went to 27 schools.
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What was the reason for that?
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We just moved a lot.
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My dad was a welder, and we were very, very poor, and just, you know, went with the wind.
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And, of course, I had step-parents, and I went to live with my grandma and my aunt, and, you know, there was a lot of broken home type situation, too.
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So, I was going from one place to another all the time.
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But there was no sort of military brat?
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Your dad was just a welder.
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No, no, it was no military component.
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And you just even being here today is sort of unlikely, right?
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Because your mother was having trouble giving birth for a long time, and you were kind of an anomaly?
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Yeah, the doctors, she had an accident when she was like 10 or 11.
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She fell off the tailgate of a pickup truck, and her sexual organs were messed up, and the doctors basically said she'd never carry a baby to term.
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And she had many miscarriages, but I was the only one that, I like to say I was the only miscarriage that came, that lived.
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Anyway, so it was definitely an interesting correlation, I guess, to the story after I found out about, you know, what I found out about.
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Kind of correlated, it was like, well, maybe there was some protective angels there somehow.
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Well, everybody listening now should put a pin in what you just said, because.
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We can't get ahead of ourselves, right?
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We can't, but there are some very interesting details to come about your mother.
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So what made you want to become Air Force Electronics Intelligence?
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Well, we managed some horse stables in Yuba City, California, and we had a person who boarded their horse there.
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And he was a major in the Air Force, and he was a SR-71 pilot.
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And of course, that fascinated me.
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Here I am a fourth grader, you know, being able to interface with somebody who's been on the news, that met President Carter, you know, that he was like a hero to me.
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And we would talk, I remember conversations with him when we were watching his daughter ride the horse that they were boarding.
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He would tell me about flying in the Air Force.
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And as a kid, you know, you get enamored with stuff like that, and it stuck with me.
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And so I definitely wanted to, and I was very patriotic as well.
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So I really wanted to do something in that realm, which is serving.
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So it kind of came all together when I was in high school.
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Were you interested in tech or electronics or signals or anything like that?
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I was always interested in technology.
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And of course, you know, in 1974, when I met him, technology was a color TV.
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You know, there wasn't really any technology per se, just science fiction and Star Trek and, you know, all that type stuff.
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So I was definitely interested in that.
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But as time went on, yes, I became more and more interested when tech became more advanced.
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And I'm definitely a techie.
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So how long did you serve just generically?
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I was in the Air Force for twelve years.
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And where were you stationed?
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I was stationed in Korea, Italy, Colorado, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Texas for a while.
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And I went TDY, of course, temporary duty for my schooling.
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Fort Neade at the NSA headquarters.
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And Philippines and Japan.
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So I went a lot of places.
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To the crazy skeptics out there, would you be able to produce like a DD-214 or like your service record?
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The main point of asking about the DD-214 thing is to the super skeptic that's out there.
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You have a service record.
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And there's really no way to deny that you were Air Force Electronics Intelligence at the very least.
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And so you get called to go to a school for electronics intelligence, like for like upgrading your skill set or something?
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When I went into the military, I went in as a security policeman.
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I was just a police.
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And at the time that I was taking the tests to get in, you know, the ASVAB tests and the things that they test you on to get you into the military and to also place you.
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They said that I qualified for every job in the Air Force, but I'd have to wait X amount of time if I wanted X job.
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And I didn't want to wait.
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I was out of the military or out of school and graduated, and I just wanted to go.
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So I said, just get me in any career field that you have available right now.
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So I went in and then after about four or five years, I applied for a cross train.
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And that's when I was cross trained into ELINT.
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Can you say where you were based when you applied for the cross training?
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And my first base as an ELINT-er was in Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha.
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And so what, as just for the audience, basic context, what are you doing as an ELINT Air Force officer?
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We had different collection platforms.
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You have satellite, you have aircraft, you have even vehicles.
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We have collectors that collect enemy information.
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They collect the radio transmissions of border areas or even over a country.
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And we collect that electronic emissions.
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And then we, as the ELINT-ers, we analyze all that electronic communications and what type of electronic emission it is, whether it radar or comms or even lasers.
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And any type of emission that comes from a country, we kind of delineate and parse out what it is.
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And then we look at it for intelligence value.
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And then if it does have, like, let's say it's a TV station.
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And so that's not intelligence value.
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Although it could be intelligence value for other intelligence fields, but not us.
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And so we look at the stuff that has to do with radars and military assets that are going to sense us as their enemy.
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So we need to build jamming packages that allow us to completely control the airspace.
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And we didn't build the jamming packages, but we gave them the parameters by which they looked at it.
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The jamming people looked at it, and they built their packages based on what we gave them.
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And so what happens?
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You're based it off it, and you're told that you should go to some schooling?
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Well, I went to school initially for the career field in San Angelo, Texas.
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And then I became certified, you know, and became an e-linter.
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And then that's when I went to Offit.
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Well, I went to Offit before, but then just for a little bit.
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But then I went to school and then back to Offit.
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And I was put up for going to a continuation course, which is called EA 280.
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You know, you become qualified, and then you got to do continuation courses to get you better qualified.
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And that was what EA 280 was.
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And that's what sent me to the NSA complex.
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And then when I got there, they sprung this other thing on me and said,
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you're going to be going to another school while you're here.
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So describe exactly what happened.
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So you go to the NSA complex is in Maryland.
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It's in Laurel, Maryland.
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There's a big, huge, sprawling building there.
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Now, make sure everybody understands, this is 30-some years ago.
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Now, since then, maybe they've changed things.
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You know, I'm not up on the locations, but we're talking circa 1990s, okay?
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At that time, there was a big, huge, black building, glass building.
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It's called the, I think they called it the black box even.
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But it's the NSA headquarters building in Laurel.
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And that's where I went to get my security, well, actually, back up.
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And here's an interesting little thing.
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It has nothing to do with PPD, but this is a multi-service school.
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So they have Marines, they have Navy, Air Force, and an Army.
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And so all four services are going in the same class.
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And so you have people coming from different bases, Army bases, Navy bases.
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And this is the difference between the Air Force and everybody else.
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The Air Force put us up on the two Air Force guys that were there.
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We got put up at Holiday Inn and all the other services had to stay in dorms.
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And it was a contention, believe me, when the other services are, what?
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You're saying, what?
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It's like, well, you should have went in the Air Force, dude.
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So anyway, we stayed at the Holiday Inn.
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And then I got a call, a random call after I got there from the captain.
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And he said he needed to meet with me.
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So he told me where to go at the NSA complex.
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I never really had a need to go to the NSA complex myself until he told me that that was
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Because there's other buildings and outbuildings and all kinds of stuff in that area of Maryland
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And so you can just go to wherever that is for years.
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So you think you're here just for Air Force continuing education.
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But you're told that you have to go to the NSA complex.
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And just, again, for the audience, basic context, what is the NSA?
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A National Security Agency.
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It's basically in charge of all of the intelligence that America does.
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All signals intelligence.
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It's known as no such agency.
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Yeah, yeah, that's one of the jokes they say.
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Why do you think it is so much, it's sort of less well-known than like the CIA is like
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the proverbial, you know, archetypal intelligence agency.
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And then the NSA, you know, it's known as no such agency.
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It's like, you know, you hear rumors of like mathematicians in Virginia or whatever,
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but you don't really know what's going on there.
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Cryptographers, you know, the CIA is, is a human asset and they use their, their,
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they're very closely intertwined with the NSA because they use NSA assets and NSA uses
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CI, CIA's assets too.
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So it is, it, there's a, there's a synergy there.
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Um, but the CIA is the, the, the face of collecting information from other countries.
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Foreign intelligence.
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That's, that's the kind of the face of it, but the underlying base of it is NSA.
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So you're here for air force, you're in Maryland for air force continuing education.
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What are you thinking when you get called into this NSA?
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Well, it, it was, I thought it was in trouble.
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I thought, I thought something, what did I do wrong?
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Did I feel something out wrong?
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But, but here's the thing is you don't typically have a, an officer, a captain
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calling you directly and talking to you.
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Usually it's like some, you know, uh, Sergeant or somewhere that's, that's giving you
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information if you need information or calling you in for something.
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So it was, it was a little odd and a little out of character and, um, or out of the ordinary.
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And so that course got my mind racing.
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Like, what, what is this?
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So I, I met him at the, in the lobby of the NSA.
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He told me how to get there and I don't know how detailed you want, but he, we had to go
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through some security stuff.
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He had to sign me in because my security clearances weren't there yet.
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My security clearances weren't there.
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So, and, and that was very common in the military.
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You'd, they have to transmit your security clearances to the next base or to your TDY
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base or class, um, schooling or whatever.
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And so they weren't there yet.
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And he had to sign me in.
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He signed me in and we went in, went down the hallways and he, he led me to his office.
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And, uh, he had, um, now everybody understand this is 30 years ago.
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So it's, it's sometimes hard to remember exactly the, uh, the details.
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And, and probably the only reason I know as many details as I do know is because I wrote
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So I, I've written them and I've set them in interviews and stuff, but, um, and by the way, this is the first, interestingly enough, every, um, person that I've talked to about this in the past, like in an interview situation, it's always been a very, very canned type of situation where they would ask you a question.
[0:18:49 - 0:19:08] ▶
I would answer, ask me a question, answer and edited, blah, blah, blah.
[0:19:09 - 0:19:13] ▶
You know, it was very, this is the first time.
[0:19:13 - 0:19:16] ▶
And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to do it is because this is a podcast.
[0:19:16 - 0:19:20] ▶
You can just, you can just talk and they all, and people will also get a feel for an unedited Dan, as opposed to the, the interviews in the past.
[0:19:22 - 0:19:33] ▶
They've been re for me anyway, to, I can't even watch them because they're so cringe.
[0:19:33 - 0:19:38] ▶
Well, you come off as reasonable and all.
[0:19:39 - 0:19:41] ▶
Reasonable, but, but it seems very stilted because there's no conversation.
[0:19:42 - 0:19:47] ▶
It's not a conversation.
[0:19:47 - 0:19:48] ▶
It's not a back and forth, natural back and forth.
[0:19:49 - 0:19:51] ▶
But that, that, that form of journalism, I think is dying.
[0:19:52 - 0:19:54] ▶
I don't think it's like a thing anymore.
[0:19:54 - 0:19:55] ▶
And it's really see through as fake.
[0:19:55 - 0:19:57] ▶
It's kind of a boomer legacy thing.
[0:19:57 - 0:19:59] ▶
So, so you're, you're, you're in this office.
[0:20:03 - 0:20:05] ▶
So yeah, the, the, the, the different things that, um, like the technology and stuff, I remember
[0:20:06 - 0:20:12] ▶
that there was a retina scanner and, but I can't remember if there was a retina scanner at his office.
[0:20:12 - 0:20:17] ▶
I don't think there was, I think it was just a, a cipher, the, the button ciphers anyway.
[0:20:17 - 0:20:22] ▶
Uh, so we get into his office and it's just like a normal, um, you know, there was a couch
[0:20:22 - 0:20:29] ▶
and a chair in front of his desk and like a cabinet that had some, um, water on it or something like that.
[0:20:29 - 0:20:36] ▶
It was, I think there was a sink.
[0:20:36 - 0:20:37] ▶
Um, anyway, we just sat there and, and he unveiled this.
[0:20:37 - 0:20:42] ▶
Um, mind blowing thing to me.
[0:20:42 - 0:20:47] ▶
And, and you know, I, I'm just, uh, uh, a boy from Oregon.
[0:20:47 - 0:20:51] ▶
Couldn't even imagine something like this happening to him.
[0:20:53 - 0:20:56] ▶
So what was the rank of this guy?
[0:20:56 - 0:20:58] ▶
All the, all my contacts for the project were captains.
[0:20:59 - 0:21:03] ▶
So he's, he's sitting down in front of you and what is he saying exactly?
[0:21:03 - 0:21:07] ▶
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[0:22:45 - 0:22:53] ▶
He's sitting down in front of you.
[0:22:55 - 0:22:57] ▶
And what is he saying exactly?
[0:22:57 - 0:22:59] ▶
He proceeded to tell me that I was, um, part of a, a project that started in 1960, I believe it was.
[0:22:59 - 0:23:08] ▶
And, um, and that we, it's the genesis of it was in 1947.
[0:23:08 - 0:23:17] ▶
We came in contact with an alien species and, and 1960, they started a, a project.
[0:23:17 - 0:23:25] ▶
It was called Project Preserve Destiny.
[0:23:25 - 0:23:27] ▶
And, um, it was designed to genetically manage fetuses, human fetuses, so that they would have the heightened ability to do this particular thing that I was going to school for.
[0:23:28 - 0:23:41] ▶
And, um, um, my mother was one of the, the selected targets or whatever you want to call it.
[0:23:41 - 0:23:49] ▶
Um, and her, I was conceived in 63.
[0:23:49 - 0:23:54] ▶
So, um, he said that she was, she was abducted a couple of years before that.
[0:23:54 - 0:24:01] ▶
And, and, and I think that was for the testing and, and trying to get the, the right people, you know, to, to continue the program with.
[0:24:01 - 0:24:11] ▶
And so in 1963, when she was, uh, when she was, um, uh, had me, you know, in term, um, they abducted her again and they, uh, did the genetic management.
[0:24:12 - 0:24:26] ▶
And that was his words, genetic management, what that means, you know, is up to interpretation, I guess.
[0:24:26 - 0:24:33] ▶
Um, but the result of it was that it gave me the ability to have this communications.
[0:24:33 - 0:24:39] ▶
So he's basically saying that mentions 1947, presumably the year of, of Roswell and a couple of other famous sightings, Kenneth Arnold.
[0:24:40 - 0:24:50] ▶
I have to put a caveat there.
[0:24:50 - 0:24:51] ▶
Um, so in, in my memories of this, it's possible that I assigned that year.
[0:24:51 - 0:24:59] ▶
I can't remember if he actually said it because I already knew about the 1940.
[0:25:01 - 0:25:05] ▶
I mean, everybody knows about the 1947 Roswell thing.
[0:25:05 - 0:25:07] ▶
So he could have alluded to that and I just assigned that year.
[0:25:08 - 0:25:13] ▶
But, but he said, uh, I'm positive that he said due to our, our communication or, uh, coming in contact with an alien species.
[0:25:14 - 0:25:22] ▶
And he might've said 15 years ago.
[0:25:22 - 0:25:25] ▶
He might've said, you know, a while ago.
[0:25:25 - 0:25:27] ▶
And then I assigned that, or he could have said 1947.
[0:25:27 - 0:25:30] ▶
I can't remember exactly.
[0:25:30 - 0:25:31] ▶
Appreciate your, uh, I want to make sure that that's kind of out there so that it, that it's not pigeonholed that I, I had this scientific memory that said that it was definitely.
[0:25:31 - 0:25:43] ▶
That because I don't.
[0:25:43 - 0:25:44] ▶
And, and, and I want everybody in the audience, if you're, uh, 60 years and up to try to remember what happened to you, uh, you know, 35 plus years ago in vivid detail and then, you know, report back if you know, have you have any critiques for, for this.
[0:25:47 - 0:26:00] ▶
So, uh, no, no, I really appreciate that.
[0:26:00 - 0:26:02] ▶
So at some point, right.
[0:26:02 - 0:26:04] ▶
Humanity or the U S came into contact with these.
[0:26:04 - 0:26:07] ▶
And I think he, I believe he does say gray alien beings.
[0:26:08 - 0:26:10] ▶
Well, that, I think that came the, the gray.
[0:26:10 - 0:26:12] ▶
But with, with alien beings and in 1960, uh, this project begins where the aliens are given access, presumably by the American federal government to genetically.
[0:26:14 - 0:26:28] ▶
I would, I would say that the, the government was given access.
[0:26:28 - 0:26:33] ▶
Because the aliens, they had access, whether we liked it or not.
[0:26:35 - 0:26:39] ▶
I mean, if you, if you think about it, because so the, the, the, the, they did it in concert with the military or the government, but I don't know who gave access to who.
[0:26:42 - 0:26:50] ▶
So maybe the abductions have been ongoing.
[0:26:52 - 0:26:53] ▶
And all of a sudden the government.
[0:26:54 - 0:26:55] ▶
Is interested in developing these intuitive communicators, which you'll, you know, later become.
[0:26:56 - 0:27:02] ▶
And, uh, that involves altering the genetics of fetuses inside the womb of specific mothers, one of whom happened to be your mother.
[0:27:02 - 0:27:11] ▶
And they also chose it by demographics too, because they, um, they knew that a certain percentage of offspring would want to go into the military, of course.
[0:27:12 - 0:27:24] ▶
So they could, they could track that, that progression and to keep it tightly controlled because you can't, I mean, if somebody, uh, went off to be, you know, in some job, they couldn't control, then it, it would be useless.
[0:27:24 - 0:27:38] ▶
So they, they tried to demographically, and I would imagine many of the underprivileged and, you know, poor people were the ones that were, were, um, poor families were the ones that were selected.
[0:27:38 - 0:27:51] ▶
And mine was one of those.
[0:27:51 - 0:27:52] ▶
How are you feeling as he's telling you this?
[0:27:53 - 0:27:55] ▶
Uh, well, I was, I, I believe I was fairly numb at first, like, you know, you're getting, you're getting information.
[0:27:55 - 0:28:07] ▶
It is so unbelievable that you think, okay, this has gotta be a joke or this is, you know, this is, uh, one of those raise, um, hazing things, you know, when you go somewhere and sometimes they haze you because you're the new person or whatever.
[0:28:07 - 0:28:23] ▶
I mean, that did cross my mind, but in, in general, in, in general terms, I was very numb to the situation until at the, at the end is started to gel.
[0:28:23 - 0:28:35] ▶
Like, you know, this is not a joke because he would have probably revealed it by now.
[0:28:35 - 0:28:39] ▶
And so, and I, you know, I'm in the NSA complex that this is not some office in some base somewhere where they're, they can do that type of thing, you know, and joke with you.
[0:28:39 - 0:28:51] ▶
So it, it became real very, very, very quickly.
[0:28:51 - 0:28:54] ▶
What do you say back to him?
[0:28:54 - 0:28:56] ▶
Um, I think I tried to ask some questions, but he, he, he was very, um, very businesslike as far as the, the, the revealing of information because he wasn't, I don't think he knew a lot, you know, to, to answer those questions.
[0:28:57 - 0:29:16] ▶
I think he knew exactly what he needed to do to get his job done just as I'm only was fed the information that I need to get my job done.
[0:29:16 - 0:29:25] ▶
So that's very common in the, in the, um, classified world is need to know, you know, if you have a need to know that, then you'll know it.
[0:29:25 - 0:29:34] ▶
But if you don't have a need to know, then you have no need to know that.
[0:29:34 - 0:29:37] ▶
And he describes the sort of compartmentalization of these programs a little bit more, right?
[0:29:37 - 0:29:42] ▶
In this conversation.
[0:29:42 - 0:29:43] ▶
Um, he went over the onion effect.
[0:29:43 - 0:29:45] ▶
Um, he said that, you know, you have these different layers that are built in the military and in government in general, but definitely military where you have, um, one layer hiding another layer.
[0:29:45 - 0:30:00] ▶
And of course, when you're at the official use only and, and unclassified aspects of things, there's not much of a layer, but when you get to the secret and the top secret and then black, and then in our case, and in the case of this, the gray project.
[0:30:00 - 0:30:15] ▶
So it, one is designed to cover the other.
[0:30:15 - 0:30:19] ▶
And especially when you get up to the black and gray project, because when you have a gray project, um, obviously you need funding.
[0:30:19 - 0:30:28] ▶
You need the, all the logistics that go into running that.
[0:30:28 - 0:30:33] ▶
And you have to have a reason.
[0:30:33 - 0:30:35] ▶
You have to have a line item.
[0:30:35 - 0:30:36] ▶
You have to have, um, justification for manpower and funding and all that.
[0:30:36 - 0:30:41] ▶
So you do that because you have a black project that's co-located with it.
[0:30:41 - 0:30:46] ▶
And only a select few of the people in the black project know about the gray project so that they can do their job and administer the gray project.
[0:30:46 - 0:30:54] ▶
But all the funding, all the, all the, um, manpower, like, you know, me going from one base to another, it's all under the auspices of the black project.
[0:30:54 - 0:31:05] ▶
So it's why, cause a lot of people, even in, you know, in the UFO community, the proverbial thing is like above, above top secret, which is, you know, Timothy Good's famous canonical UFO book.
[0:31:06 - 0:31:17] ▶
And you're paying homage to it with the black.
[0:31:18 - 0:31:19] ▶
And you're saying that above programs that are by definition black and, you know, off the books kind of, or off the books for the public, at least you have these little cutouts that involve the alien presence, which is, that's a big claim.
[0:31:20 - 0:31:37] ▶
And why do you think he would tell you anything about the compartmentalization of it?
[0:31:37 - 0:31:41] ▶
Well, because I was a part of it.
[0:31:41 - 0:31:42] ▶
I was going to be a part of it.
[0:31:42 - 0:31:43] ▶
So at that time I was not assigned to any black projects.
[0:31:44 - 0:31:47] ▶
I mean, I was just like anybody else in the world.
[0:31:48 - 0:31:51] ▶
I mean, I, I knew of the concept of, of, of stuff that is above top secret.
[0:31:51 - 0:31:56] ▶
I even read the book probably.
[0:31:56 - 0:31:58] ▶
I would imagine I did.
[0:31:58 - 0:31:59] ▶
Um, uh, cause I, I remember the name of it that you just mentioned.
[0:31:59 - 0:32:02] ▶
Um, so it, it, it stands to reason that he would, he would try to make me understand that this is just part of that process and you are going to be going to a black project.
[0:32:03 - 0:32:15] ▶
And that would be your cover, so to speak, for what you're going to be doing with the project.
[0:32:15 - 0:32:21] ▶
So he says that your mother in some way was genetically altered, uh, when she was giving.
[0:32:21 - 0:32:28] ▶
Fetus was all inside of her, uh, in the early sixties.
[0:32:32 - 0:32:34] ▶
And that was in order for you to become an intuitive communicator who is basically able to receive messages from alien beings.
[0:32:35 - 0:32:44] ▶
Well, receive and transmit.
[0:32:44 - 0:32:45] ▶
Receive and transmit.
[0:32:46 - 0:32:47] ▶
Communicate basically back and forth.
[0:32:49 - 0:32:50] ▶
And he's telling you all of this?
[0:32:50 - 0:32:51] ▶
I said that that's what my job would be doing to, or that's what my job would be to do that.
[0:32:52 - 0:32:57] ▶
And, and then, so at that point, you know, are you saying like, well, why are you telling me this?
[0:32:58 - 0:33:03] ▶
Is there like a follow-up here?
[0:33:03 - 0:33:04] ▶
Am I supposed to, you know, like.
[0:33:04 - 0:33:05] ▶
No, I mean, when you're told this it's, it's, you're, you're being, your, your mind is being bombarded with such a, a, a radical situation that you don't.
[0:33:05 - 0:33:19] ▶
Well, and, and also in the context of being a military too, we have military protocol that, you know, we don't ask a lot of questions in the military.
[0:33:19 - 0:33:26] ▶
You know, you, you're being told what to do and then you do it.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:30] ▶
You're actually trained not to ask questions or not to give any type of pushback or anything.
[0:33:30 - 0:33:37] ▶
That's what we're gonna do.
[0:33:40 - 0:33:41] ▶
So in that context, it, it doesn't, I mean, it may seem like somebody, you know, Joe Blow may seem like.
[0:33:43 - 0:33:48] ▶
Well, if I was told that I'd be all up in arms.
[0:33:48 - 0:33:51] ▶
But you don't, you don't think like that when you're an airman or a, you know, a sergeant, you just think, okay, this is the mission and we're, we're going to go forward.
[0:33:52 - 0:34:01] ▶
Does he say anything about the purpose of Project Preserve Destiny and why intuitive communicators are needed in the first place?
[0:34:01 - 0:34:07] ▶
He said, um, he said that, uh, it was due to some future event.
[0:34:09 - 0:34:18] ▶
And, and again, he said, this is what I've been told.
[0:34:18 - 0:34:20] ▶
So it wasn't like, um, he's just a conduit for whatever he's being told.
[0:34:20 - 0:34:25] ▶
So, so there are levels of need to know access and compartmentalization.
[0:34:25 - 0:34:30] ▶
And so he told me that there would be some future event where the ability to intuitively communicate would help the military and help, you know, command and control and, and all that.
[0:34:30 - 0:34:41] ▶
He didn't get into details on it, but he just said that, because I mean, the training itself was, um, centered around communicating stuff like that, like logistics and, and things like that.
[0:34:41 - 0:34:58] ▶
So he was setting me up for what type of communications would I be trained for?
[0:34:58 - 0:35:04] ▶
And then he said, it's for a future thing that we know is going to happen and you're going to be one of the communicating, um, aspects of that future event.
[0:35:04 - 0:35:16] ▶
You'll be allowed or you'll be, um, relied upon to do that.
[0:35:16 - 0:35:20] ▶
Was it like a cataclysmic event or like a, he didn't say anything.
[0:35:20 - 0:35:23] ▶
He didn't say anything.
[0:35:23 - 0:35:24] ▶
He didn't say anything about the, the, the nature of it at all.
[0:35:24 - 0:35:27] ▶
But there was some need to have these intuitive communicators on a go forward basis.
[0:35:27 - 0:35:31] ▶
The, the future event thing, he said in the future and maybe even the event that, that word event, maybe that was something that I put in there.
[0:35:32 - 0:35:42] ▶
I, I don't actually recall, but, but that was my impression that there would be some event in the future that, that would be needed.
[0:35:42 - 0:35:50] ▶
So what happens next?
[0:35:50 - 0:35:51] ▶
We went to the school.
[0:35:51 - 0:35:53] ▶
He took me in a van to the school and it could have been me coming back to the facility and then meeting him again.
[0:35:53 - 0:36:00] ▶
And don't really remember though.
[0:36:00 - 0:36:02] ▶
Um, but we, we took a van from the facility.
[0:36:02 - 0:36:05] ▶
It was a, a blue marked unmarked van that had a black windows.
[0:36:05 - 0:36:11] ▶
It drove to the school that I would be having the instruction at and couldn't see where we were going at all.
[0:36:11 - 0:36:19] ▶
I mean, that was part of the secrecy of it, obviously is I didn't know where the school was.
[0:36:19 - 0:36:25] ▶
And, um, so we went, uh, got out in a garage or a room of some, it wasn't really, uh, I don't know what it was.
[0:36:25 - 0:36:37] ▶
It was just, it was a interior of a cement building.
[0:36:37 - 0:36:41] ▶
I don't know if it was a garage or an, uh, part of an annex of a building, but it was just cement all around us.
[0:36:41 - 0:36:46] ▶
And, and the blue van parked and we got out and 10, about, about 10, 20, 15 feet in front of the, the van, um, doors that we got out was a, a door.
[0:36:46 - 0:37:00] ▶
It had a palm reader, I believe, and it might've had a retina scanner.
[0:37:00 - 0:37:05] ▶
I know the interior one had a retina scanner.
[0:37:05 - 0:37:07] ▶
Um, we opened the door, went into a vestibule.
[0:37:07 - 0:37:11] ▶
That was the door to the elevator.
[0:37:11 - 0:37:13] ▶
We got in the elevator after doing the hand scan again.
[0:37:13 - 0:37:17] ▶
I think it was the opposite hand the next time.
[0:37:17 - 0:37:19] ▶
And then, um, went down.
[0:37:19 - 0:37:22] ▶
I could feel it was going down.
[0:37:22 - 0:37:23] ▶
Obviously there was only one button in the elevator.
[0:37:23 - 0:37:26] ▶
That was it just start basically.
[0:37:26 - 0:37:29] ▶
Doors opened on the other side of the elevator and we went into a room.
[0:37:31 - 0:37:36] ▶
It had two consoles in it, two, um, computer consoles and a table in the middle.
[0:37:36 - 0:37:42] ▶
And he told me, you know, the kind of logistics of the, the van would pick me up at my hotel.
[0:37:42 - 0:37:49] ▶
I would go through E-Lint school.
[0:37:49 - 0:37:51] ▶
And then, um, I think they gave me like the half hour, 45 minutes.
[0:37:51 - 0:37:57] ▶
I can't remember exactly the time, but a short while after I got, um, back from the E-Lint school, they would pick me up in the blue van would be right there in front of the, in the pickup area of the holiday inn.
[0:37:57 - 0:38:09] ▶
And, um, I would get in the van and he would drive me to the school and I would do exactly what we just did, which is get out of the van, go to the door.
[0:38:09 - 0:38:18] ▶
I, my, all my information would be in the scanners and, uh, just go down and go to my console and put on the headphones and sit there.
[0:38:18 - 0:38:26] ▶
And that would be my, that would be my task every, every time.
[0:38:26 - 0:38:31] ▶
And what are they telling you to do when you're sitting there with, with headphones on?
[0:38:31 - 0:38:38] ▶
You know how we're always diving into the edge of science and consciousness on this show?
[0:38:38 - 0:38:44] ▶
Lately, I've been thinking a lot about aging, not just in terms of years, but in how it actually feels in the body.
[0:38:44 - 0:38:51] ▶
Slow recovery, lower energy, that middle aged fog that sneaks up on you.
[0:38:51 - 0:38:55] ▶
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And what are they telling you to do when you're sitting there with headphones on?
[0:40:20 - 0:40:28] ▶
Well, the instructor was through the headphones.
[0:40:28 - 0:40:31] ▶
He just said, put on the headphones and you'll be told what to do after you put the headphones on through the headphones.
[0:40:31 - 0:40:39] ▶
And so, and he told me also there would be some pills that I would take.
[0:40:39 - 0:40:45] ▶
So he showed me the pills and he said they'd be right here on the, on the table.
[0:40:45 - 0:40:49] ▶
And he told me also that there would be another student in the school at the same time.
[0:40:49 - 0:40:54] ▶
So that's why there were two consoles.
[0:40:54 - 0:40:56] ▶
And he said, you're never to speak with each other.
[0:40:56 - 0:41:00] ▶
Um, not even a grunt, nothing.
[0:41:00 - 0:41:03] ▶
Just you both come to your, your, your console is going to be this one and that's it.
[0:41:03 - 0:41:09] ▶
Um, and I did finally see that guy and we came about the same time, never at the exact same time, but around the same time.
[0:41:10 - 0:41:20] ▶
And, um, never said a word to one another, took the medicine or, uh, he told me about the medicine, where it would be.
[0:41:20 - 0:41:28] ▶
Um, it was very cut and dry.
[0:41:28 - 0:41:32] ▶
I mean, there wasn't a lot to it.
[0:41:32 - 0:41:34] ▶
We just had to get in the van and come here and do exactly what we just did.
[0:41:34 - 0:41:38] ▶
And so you basically had no idea where you were going in the van.
[0:41:38 - 0:41:41] ▶
And you're in this extremely nondescript building.
[0:41:42 - 0:41:45] ▶
You just see the inside.
[0:41:45 - 0:41:46] ▶
Well, I assume it was the building.
[0:41:46 - 0:41:47] ▶
I mean, I don't know if we went down.
[0:41:47 - 0:41:49] ▶
It almost sounds like maybe it's underground.
[0:41:49 - 0:41:51] ▶
Well, I know the school, the consoles were, I I'm positive that.
[0:41:52 - 0:41:56] ▶
Well, I guess maybe not positive cause we could have gone up into a building.
[0:41:57 - 0:42:01] ▶
So I assume it's underground.
[0:42:05 - 0:42:06] ▶
Um, and I don't, I, I think the building was ground level too, because I, I don't remember
[0:42:06 - 0:42:12] ▶
going up any, you know, inclines or down or any of that.
[0:42:12 - 0:42:16] ▶
So it was ground level.
[0:42:16 - 0:42:17] ▶
Meaning that the school was probably underground.
[0:42:17 - 0:42:19] ▶
The school itself was under a building that was on ground level.
[0:42:19 - 0:42:24] ▶
And I believe also you were talking about the intense secrecy.
[0:42:24 - 0:42:27] ▶
Uh, the captain who you call Captain White in the book, who briefed you initially said
[0:42:27 - 0:42:32] ▶
you're not to speak about this with anybody unless they're involved in project preserved destiny.
[0:42:32 - 0:42:36] ▶
So there would, he told me there would be a pass off.
[0:42:38 - 0:42:40] ▶
So, um, or an introduction or.
[0:42:40 - 0:42:43] ▶
I can't remember the terminology is, but somebody would be, he would introduce me to somebody
[0:42:43 - 0:42:49] ▶
when I needed to do it in the future.
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If I went to another, or when I went to another base.
[0:42:50 - 0:42:53] ▶
So he was my contact for there.
[0:42:53 - 0:42:56] ▶
And then I would get another contact at another location and whatever location I was at, I
[0:42:56 - 0:43:01] ▶
would always be introduced by the previous, uh, contact.
[0:43:01 - 0:43:05] ▶
So I would never have any need to go up to somebody and say, are you, or none of that.
[0:43:05 - 0:43:11] ▶
They would come to you.
[0:43:11 - 0:43:12] ▶
It's like a Le Carre, uh, book or something.
[0:43:15 - 0:43:17] ▶
It's like a spy thriller.
[0:43:17 - 0:43:18] ▶
It's like, you'll be greeted by a man.
[0:43:18 - 0:43:20] ▶
It's like a telephone booth or so.
[0:43:22 - 0:43:23] ▶
And it was a telephone at one introduction.
[0:43:26 - 0:43:27] ▶
It was like meet at a telephone booth or something?
[0:43:29 - 0:43:30] ▶
No, it was, uh, I got a call.
[0:43:30 - 0:43:32] ▶
A public telephone booth?
[0:43:32 - 0:43:34] ▶
Well, it wasn't public.
[0:43:34 - 0:43:35] ▶
It was the dorm, the dorm that I was living in at the first base that I went to.
[0:43:35 - 0:43:40] ▶
I was living in a dorm and there was a, like a, a dorm phone, so to speak, in the hallway.
[0:43:40 - 0:43:46] ▶
And so somebody came in and said, um, you have a phone call.
[0:43:46 - 0:43:51] ▶
And so that he told me that was Captain White.
[0:43:53 - 0:43:56] ▶
And he told me that the name of the next person and that I would meet them at such and such time.
[0:43:56 - 0:44:03] ▶
And he would have his arms folded in front of the facility.
[0:44:03 - 0:44:06] ▶
And that's who it was.
[0:44:06 - 0:44:07] ▶
That his arms or that's.
[0:44:07 - 0:44:08] ▶
So, I mean, I know that's probably silly, but, but he did say that, that, that he would have his arms.
[0:44:09 - 0:44:18] ▶
And he was the only person there.
[0:44:19 - 0:44:20] ▶
So it wasn't like I was gonna mistake him for one of the other million people that were in front of him.
[0:44:20 - 0:44:24] ▶
But maybe that was somewhat of a signal to just confirm that that was the right contact.
[0:44:24 - 0:44:28] ▶
So you're back at this initial Project Preserve Destiny school.
[0:44:29 - 0:44:32] ▶
And this is in Maryland.
[0:44:33 - 0:44:34] ▶
It's presumably near the NSA complex when you get briefed.
[0:44:34 - 0:44:37] ▶
And you're underground, you have your headphones on.
[0:44:38 - 0:44:40] ▶
What instructions do you get through the headphones?
[0:44:40 - 0:44:43] ▶
Um, so initially, um, it was a very, very rudimentary.
[0:44:43 - 0:44:49] ▶
There were, um, LED boxes in the, on the computer screen in front of me.
[0:44:49 - 0:44:54] ▶
And, uh, they were green and it was like a sine wave.
[0:44:54 - 0:44:57] ▶
It was like this, um, like a, it's a typical, I don't know if people know what a sine wave is, but.
[0:44:57 - 0:45:03] ▶
Sine wave looks like a sideways S.
[0:45:03 - 0:45:05] ▶
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[0:45:05 - 0:45:06] ▶
With a, with a green line going through the middle.
[0:45:06 - 0:45:08] ▶
And so I would have 10 of those boxes in front of me on the computer screen.
[0:45:08 - 0:45:14] ▶
And he said for now, initially, anyway, he said, I, I just want you, I'm going to play a tone and I want you to mentally hum that tone.
[0:45:14 - 0:45:23] ▶
Don't auto-bolize it.
[0:45:23 - 0:45:25] ▶
Just mentally do it.
[0:45:25 - 0:45:26] ▶
Don't ha don't use your vocal chords in any way, shape or form.
[0:45:26 - 0:45:29] ▶
Just mentally hum that, that note or that.
[0:45:29 - 0:45:33] ▶
And so that's what I did for.
[0:45:35 - 0:45:37] ▶
A few days at least.
[0:45:38 - 0:45:40] ▶
And, and it was, uh, torture.
[0:45:41 - 0:45:44] ▶
It was basically torture.
[0:45:44 - 0:45:46] ▶
Just listening to one tone and mentally and humming it.
[0:45:46 - 0:45:49] ▶
I, I can't remember, but it was, it was probably a couple of days and, and each class, you know, it was like three, four hours in the afternoon, evening, early.
[0:45:50 - 0:45:58] ▶
That sounds like Chinese water torture.
[0:45:58 - 0:46:00] ▶
It, I would definitely ascribe that, uh, term.
[0:46:02 - 0:46:05] ▶
Were you allowed to take breaks?
[0:46:05 - 0:46:07] ▶
Uh, I did get, I did get breaks, uh, like 10 minutes every hour, just like your normal work.
[0:46:07 - 0:46:13] ▶
You know, break type thing.
[0:46:14 - 0:46:15] ▶
Cause I think in the book you say you couldn't go to the bathroom during the blocks.
[0:46:15 - 0:46:18] ▶
No, I could, I could not go to the bathroom.
[0:46:18 - 0:46:20] ▶
Which was a problem sometimes.
[0:46:21 - 0:46:23] ▶
I, I, I, um, I don't think I ever did anything in my pants, but it was close.
[0:46:23 - 0:46:30] ▶
And I also was also very paranoid about going, you know, before going, I would always, you know, be on the toilet, like, you know, definitely before I went because I definitely did not want to have a problem.
[0:46:30 - 0:46:43] ▶
And, um, I think, you know, that's a young person's game too, because now I'd be like, no, no, no, I gotta, I gotta have a break.
[0:46:43 - 0:46:52] ▶
I gotta have a bathroom.
[0:46:53 - 0:46:54] ▶
So, um, it was a mentally hummed tone and, and then he, um, he told me to concentrate on the first box while I was doing it.
[0:46:55 - 0:47:04] ▶
So I would look for like, uh, he said, look for movement in the, in the box on the sine wave of the first box.
[0:47:04 - 0:47:11] ▶
And, um, so I would, I would look at that box and just stare at that box and mentally hum the tone.
[0:47:11 - 0:47:19] ▶
And he said that, um, you will eventually, um, you will eventually find, um, you will.
[0:47:19 - 0:47:25] ▶
Feel a connection between your, your mental and your visual.
[0:47:25 - 0:47:32] ▶
It, you'll feel a connection that, um, that is, uh, that is, uh, represented in the box.
[0:47:33 - 0:47:44] ▶
So the, the line will change.
[0:47:45 - 0:47:47] ▶
With your, your, your, this thing that you're doing with your mind, which is a mental hum.
[0:47:48 - 0:47:53] ▶
Um, and so when I, I say in the book that it clicked and that that's kind of the only thing that I could really put human language to.
[0:47:53 - 0:48:05] ▶
It wasn't an audible click or it wasn't like a, you know, physical click, but, but it, it, it's like when you're, uh, focused in a camera, uh, you know, it's really out of focus and you're turning and turn it and you go.
[0:48:06 - 0:48:18] ▶
You know, it just focused right on it.
[0:48:18 - 0:48:21] ▶
And that's what it felt like with the visual and the, the mental aspect of looking at the box.
[0:48:21 - 0:48:26] ▶
When I saw the, the, the, uh, sine wave move, it, it is like, it came into focus, this thing that, that I was doing in my head.
[0:48:26 - 0:48:35] ▶
And then I, I could, uh, I could assign that what I just did.
[0:48:35 - 0:48:39] ▶
I could assign that to what I was doing visually or seeing visually.
[0:48:39 - 0:48:43] ▶
And I went, oh, okay.
[0:48:43 - 0:48:45] ▶
Well, I was excited.
[0:48:45 - 0:48:47] ▶
Of course, I nearly jumped out of my, my, my seat when it first did it.
[0:48:47 - 0:48:51] ▶
Uh, I couldn't believe it.
[0:48:51 - 0:48:52] ▶
Cause at this point I was like really seriously giving up.
[0:48:52 - 0:48:55] ▶
I was like, this is, this is bullshit.
[0:48:55 - 0:48:57] ▶
I, this is not gonna happen.
[0:48:57 - 0:48:59] ▶
I, I, and so when it did happen, it was pretty exciting.
[0:48:59 - 0:49:02] ▶
Well, you must be thinking too, before the clicking happened that this isn't how physics works, right?
[0:49:02 - 0:49:10] ▶
Like in, in your head, you, you, you, you grow up in the U S learning or in anywhere learning that there's some sort of hard separation between mind and matter.
[0:49:10 - 0:49:20] ▶
And you can hum as much as you want internally to try to match or resonate with some external tone you're hearing.
[0:49:21 - 0:49:27] ▶
But the idea that that, you know, tone is represented on a screen and you could somehow affect that representation with your mind to most people would be beyond the pale.
[0:49:27 - 0:49:38] ▶
I did, um, for a short period of time, think that maybe there was a connection between the headphones and, and the computer.
[0:49:39 - 0:49:47] ▶
Some sort of electromagnetic.
[0:49:47 - 0:49:48] ▶
Because, well, because the headphones weren't wireless.
[0:49:48 - 0:49:51] ▶
They, they had a wire and it went into the cabinet.
[0:49:51 - 0:49:54] ▶
And so, you know, I, I did, I mean, I gave that a lot of thought, like, you know, but that of course was proved wrong later on because I didn't have headphones later on when I was doing the actual communication.
[0:49:54 - 0:50:05] ▶
So, but yes, you're right.
[0:50:05 - 0:50:07] ▶
There's a disconnect.
[0:50:07 - 0:50:08] ▶
There's a, there's a mental disconnect there that that's not supposed to be happening.
[0:50:08 - 0:50:13] ▶
That this is not, this is not possible to happen.
[0:50:13 - 0:50:17] ▶
So yeah, it was definitely interesting.
[0:50:17 - 0:50:19] ▶
So when you say it clicked and I realized that's the best way you can sort of describe it.
[0:50:19 - 0:50:23] ▶
Do you then sense, oh my God, this sort of, you know, wave that's going the sine wave.
[0:50:24 - 0:50:30] ▶
I now have mental control over it.
[0:50:30 - 0:50:32] ▶
Is that the feeling you get?
[0:50:32 - 0:50:33] ▶
It was, um, well, and it was, I couldn't really do anything with it because I didn't really know what to do with it.
[0:50:35 - 0:50:41] ▶
Um, but I could definitely, um, affect the, the motion and I could do it just at will.
[0:50:41 - 0:50:50] ▶
Like I could, at first the, the, the sign, you know, the sine wave was like this and it would go like this, you know, the, the two lobes of the sine wave would go like this in harmony with one another.
[0:50:50 - 0:51:02] ▶
That was the clicking, um, aspect.
[0:51:02 - 0:51:05] ▶
And then later on, I mean, the, the whole thing would just like this, you know, when you're actually doing, when you're practicing the, the visual and audio, um, um, feedback, you know, that it was giving me, I would, I would do the communications or whatever the, the IC aspect of what I was doing.
[0:51:05 - 0:51:26] ▶
It would, it would actually do this with the sine wave.
[0:51:26 - 0:51:29] ▶
So at some point I just didn't even pay attention to the sine wave.
[0:51:29 - 0:51:32] ▶
I was just, I was just doing the, what he was telling me to do.
[0:51:32 - 0:51:35] ▶
And I see is intuitive communication.
[0:51:35 - 0:51:37] ▶
And so you're, you're, you're seeing it almost like ripple or like, you know, oscillate different.
[0:51:38 - 0:51:43] ▶
That's so fascinating.
[0:51:43 - 0:51:44] ▶
So you, you like walk in, you have this like connection between you and the sine wave.
[0:51:46 - 0:51:50] ▶
And then are you, do you have a goal?
[0:51:50 - 0:51:52] ▶
Are you trying to like get the sine wave to do something?
[0:51:52 - 0:51:54] ▶
He was just telling me, well, he did the first sine wave.
[0:51:55 - 0:51:58] ▶
And then the, he would feed another note and I would have to concentrate on the second sine wave.
[0:51:58 - 0:52:04] ▶
And then the third sine wave.
[0:52:04 - 0:52:05] ▶
And until I got all of them to click.
[0:52:05 - 0:52:07] ▶
And that was the kind of the overriding goal.
[0:52:07 - 0:52:10] ▶
And then they started to feed me numbers and describing things.
[0:52:10 - 0:52:17] ▶
And what I was interpreting when I was doing the boxes, it would start to, I could associate certain concepts and numbers and colors and letters and things like that with the actual boxes and the different movements of the, of the sine waves.
[0:52:17 - 0:52:38] ▶
So it was intuitive in the sense that, because it really was intuitive in that when I went, when I started unlocking all these things, it became intuitively aware in my mind, how to do that stuff.
[0:52:38 - 0:52:53] ▶
So I intuitively knew how to do it.
[0:52:53 - 0:52:55] ▶
That's how the, that's why they, they, I think they call it intuitive communication, because once your mind was unlocked with that ability, it intuitively did that.
[0:52:55 - 0:53:05] ▶
Intuitively was able to communicate whatever it needed to communicate.
[0:53:06 - 0:53:10] ▶
So you have a bunch of boxes with sine waves in them, and then you're somehow associating the movements of the sine waves.
[0:53:10 - 0:53:16] ▶
Well, it, the, the clicking was the only really thing that I was associate, I was associating.
[0:53:16 - 0:53:22] ▶
Um, that was the tool by which we could do the clicking or, you know, to, to unlock that particular tone and that ability to intuitively communicate at that, whatever they called it.
[0:53:22 - 0:53:34] ▶
I don't even know what they called it at whatever levels those were.
[0:53:34 - 0:53:37] ▶
Um, to me, it was just a note, but to whoever was teaching me, it could have been another attribution, you know, somehow it was meant something to them, but it didn't mean to me.
[0:53:37 - 0:53:47] ▶
Is the tone that you're listening to changing at all?
[0:53:47 - 0:53:50] ▶
The, the, the tones were different, uh, different notes for each box.
[0:53:52 - 0:53:56] ▶
I don't know what notes they were, but they were 10 notes.
[0:53:58 - 0:54:00] ▶
Um, and did the sine wave change based on the notes?
[0:54:00 - 0:54:03] ▶
Uh, no, it was just the clicking.
[0:54:03 - 0:54:06] ▶
Uh, the, the sine wave itself would, would move based on our, that I had 10 boxes.
[0:54:06 - 0:54:13] ▶
One was another note.
[0:54:14 - 0:54:15] ▶
One was another note.
[0:54:15 - 0:54:16] ▶
One was another note.
[0:54:16 - 0:54:17] ▶
One was another for the clicking aspect.
[0:54:17 - 0:54:18] ▶
And then my mind was picking up on, um, when, when they would feed me information, like, um, a description of something.
[0:54:19 - 0:54:28] ▶
I would, my mind would think in those terms and feedback something.
[0:54:28 - 0:54:34] ▶
Now I don't know what that feedback was and how, because they were monitoring that on the other side.
[0:54:34 - 0:54:39] ▶
They were, they were trying to see whether it fit whatever it was supposed to fit in those boxes.
[0:54:39 - 0:54:45] ▶
It, it wasn't my aspect of it was very, uh, one-sided.
[0:54:45 - 0:54:50] ▶
I was just there to unlock what was going on in my head.
[0:54:50 - 0:54:53] ▶
And we did that through the clicking, but then the feet, the feeding of the, the information and stuff was my ability.
[0:54:53 - 0:55:01] ▶
My ability is my mind's ability to, to convey that in these, in this type of language or communication or whatever you want to call it.
[0:55:02 - 0:55:13] ▶
And so it really didn't come all together until I actually started the communications with the, with the, the aliens.
[0:55:13 - 0:55:21] ▶
It was, it was unlocked.
[0:55:21 - 0:55:23] ▶
I could tell it was unlocked obviously because I was moving boxes and stuff.
[0:55:23 - 0:55:27] ▶
The box didn't mean anything to me at, at some point after I clicked with all of them, but, but the communications itself was when I really realized, oh, this is what, this is how it works.
[0:55:27 - 0:55:39] ▶
This is why it's why it is what it is, why we're doing this.
[0:55:39 - 0:55:43] ▶
So you have 10 boxes, each of which represent a note, so to speak, or the clicking.
[0:55:43 - 0:55:48] ▶
Sine waves within each box.
[0:55:50 - 0:55:52] ▶
And you're trying to lock in or click into each box and you, you end up getting them all.
[0:55:53 - 0:55:57] ▶
And sort of interfacing with all of them.
[0:55:57 - 0:55:59] ▶
But once I, but once they started feeding me information and I was, um, I was supposed to intuitively communicate that back into wherever it was going or wherever it was going.
[0:55:59 - 0:56:10] ▶
Um, then I would see boxes just going, you know, just doing all kinds of stuff.
[0:56:10 - 0:56:17] ▶
And, but I didn't correlate that with anything.
[0:56:17 - 0:56:20] ▶
So presumably, and maybe, maybe this is taking a leap here.
[0:56:21 - 0:56:24] ▶
They are, uh, kind of pattern matching signals that you're emitting by thinking of certain things.
[0:56:24 - 0:56:31] ▶
So you have a certain semantic thought, like a school bus or something, and then they get a certain pattern.
[0:56:31 - 0:56:37] ▶
And then they're doing some pattern matching.
[0:56:38 - 0:56:39] ▶
The pattern or the, um, this was just an, the, the 10 boxes were just a manifestation of what was going on.
[0:56:42 - 0:56:49] ▶
But I don't think they were actually using the boxes.
[0:56:50 - 0:56:52] ▶
They had their own way, but it was just allowing me to see.
[0:56:52 - 0:56:56] ▶
It kind of gave me confidence or whatever.
[0:56:56 - 0:56:58] ▶
It was kind of a visual for me.
[0:56:59 - 0:57:00] ▶
So it was feedback for you.
[0:57:00 - 0:57:01] ▶
That you were locked into the sign waves.
[0:57:02 - 0:57:04] ▶
But they had something on the back end.
[0:57:05 - 0:57:06] ▶
Symbolic concepts that you're thinking of.
[0:57:09 - 0:57:11] ▶
In this plane that is being unlocked.
[0:57:12 - 0:57:14] ▶
In this plane that's being unlocked.
[0:57:14 - 0:57:16] ▶
You think of like a car and like they're, they have some sort of signals, presumably that they're going off of.
[0:57:18 - 0:57:24] ▶
And the intuitive communications.
[0:57:24 - 0:57:26] ▶
Um, I would, I would think like I think now, just like you think, but I would do it in this kind of.
[0:57:26 - 0:57:33] ▶
Level of the brain that was, was doing what was doing here with that mental humming.
[0:57:33 - 0:57:39] ▶
That, that unlocked something in my brain that was allowing it to be on that level or plane or whatever you want to call it.
[0:57:40 - 0:57:47] ▶
Instead of talking, you know, through the vocal chords and, or even thinking.
[0:57:47 - 0:57:52] ▶
Thinking is a level of intuitive or a, um,
[0:57:53 - 0:57:56] ▶
It's an aspect of, of the way our minds work.
[0:57:58 - 0:58:01] ▶
But this was a different, um, a different, uh, modality.
[0:58:01 - 0:58:07] ▶
I'm not exactly sure what word to put it to it, but, but, and it was unlocked through that.
[0:58:07 - 0:58:13] ▶
Well, it almost feels like they were attempting to read a little bit of a,
[0:58:14 - 0:58:17] ▶
a level of your thoughts that exist below symbolic abstract, you know, interpretation.
[0:58:17 - 0:58:23] ▶
Or above, but I, yeah, I would think maybe below like, cause.
[0:58:25 - 0:58:27] ▶
Yeah. Well, I don't know.
[0:58:28 - 0:58:29] ▶
But like, you know, if you have like language is very kind of high level and, and symbolic ultimately.
[0:58:29 - 0:58:34] ▶
And you're locking onto these sine wave frequencies.
[0:58:35 - 0:58:38] ▶
I would assume, you know, if you have in computer science, you have the bit layer and then you have a higher level symbolic languages.
[0:58:38 - 0:58:46] ▶
And then you have like abstract representations of, you know, you have icons on your computer screen ultimately and stuff like that.
[0:58:46 - 0:58:52] ▶
Um, I would think that language is more like the icons in your computer screens, on your computer screens.
[0:58:53 - 0:58:59] ▶
And then there's probably some lower level of thought, like some memetic thing of, you know, you know, thinking of forms and shapes and that sort of thing.
[0:58:59 - 0:59:08] ▶
And this is like another way to transmit that.
[0:59:08 - 0:59:12] ▶
Well, the, the way I kind of, um, thought about it as, as the years went on and I, you know, would think about stuff like this.
[0:59:13 - 0:59:20] ▶
Um, in the E-Lint we had a carrier wave, you know, which was the power of the, of the transmission.
[0:59:20 - 0:59:27] ▶
But then it was, it was, um, encoded.
[0:59:27 - 0:59:31] ▶
Encoded isn't the word, but I'll use that.
[0:59:31 - 0:59:33] ▶
The, the information is encoded on that power wave.
[0:59:34 - 0:59:37] ▶
So the, the, our ability to communicate, talk and think that's a, a power wave.
[0:59:38 - 0:59:45] ▶
And then I, I put this, the, I see ability as a different way to encode information on that power wave.
[0:59:45 - 0:59:52] ▶
And it, and, but it's still the power that's emanating from our being, you know, we're alive and we have power.
[0:59:53 - 0:59:59] ▶
We have, we have, uh, energy emanating from us and we are the carrier wave, but the, the, the power wave.
[0:59:59 - 1:00:08] ▶
Encoding of information is done through our vocal cords and through our eyes and through our mind, but this was a higher level of encoding.
[1:00:08 - 1:00:18] ▶
that of that energy interesting that's kind of how i've thought about it over the years i feel
[1:00:18 - 1:00:24] ▶
like we're saying the same thing yeah probably you're told that you uh need to be taking pills
[1:00:24 - 1:00:30] ▶
every day you're doing this yeah it's two pills is that right initially it was two pills in the
[1:00:30 - 1:00:36] ▶
school um what do they taste like um they didn't have any taste did you ask hey why do you why do
[1:00:36 - 1:00:44] ▶
you have to take these pills i did ask and you know as usual it was like well that's just what we have to do
[1:00:44 - 1:00:51] ▶
okay i wasn't told why and and it wasn't like it wasn't it wasn't a one for one type of situation
[1:00:51 - 1:00:59] ▶
too because sometimes i would forget to take it there was there were a few days when i would come
[1:00:59 - 1:01:05] ▶
back and go oh man i didn't take that i forgot to take those um and i've i've at later on i was i
[1:01:05 - 1:01:14] ▶
think it was one pill that i had to take later on and sometimes i'd forget to take that too so it
[1:01:14 - 1:01:19] ▶
wasn't like it was take pill could do it didn't take pill couldn't do it it wasn't like that i think it
[1:01:19 - 1:01:26] ▶
was just i think they were just experimenting with it sure some sort of maybe intuitive communicator
[1:01:26 - 1:01:33] ▶
supplement so to speak i don't know but i mean they're presumably parts of the brain that enhance
[1:01:33 - 1:01:38] ▶
this stuff and ones that yeah hurt it maybe or impede it um and that part of the goal for you is
[1:01:38 - 1:01:43] ▶
like flattening the sine wave right so it's getting the sine wave to basically the amplitude to lower
[1:01:43 - 1:01:50] ▶
into the the sort of center of the box yeah and that and that was just um a a concentration exercise
[1:01:50 - 1:01:58] ▶
i think on the on the actual note because i would i first i clicked it and so that was the clicking
[1:01:58 - 1:02:04] ▶
it would move and then um i was um instructed to move it further you know to move that note but do it
[1:02:04 - 1:02:14] ▶
further and so that was the feedback i was getting at the visual feedback i could kind of correlate it
[1:02:14 - 1:02:21] ▶
with what i was doing in my mind and so i could get a stronger a more focused maybe of that uh note
[1:02:21 - 1:02:28] ▶
and and i only say note because at some point the note went away and i could just i just did that box
[1:02:29 - 1:02:34] ▶
but um so that's it like the note was almost priming you for a particular box yeah and then i didn't
[1:02:34 - 1:02:41] ▶
need the note it was just that box was in my mind because you had the internal humming going on yeah
[1:02:41 - 1:02:46] ▶
yeah well and again that was that was only to unlock that that feature or whatever you want to
[1:02:46 - 1:02:54] ▶
call it because the note went away and even my humming i did that one away too i didn't have to do
[1:02:54 - 1:02:59] ▶
any of that interesting yeah and once you were locked in with a particular box you were good yeah yeah
[1:02:59 - 1:03:03] ▶
yeah and and then i the flattening was an intensity type of situation where you you could and i don't
[1:03:04 - 1:03:11] ▶
think that had anything to do with the actual communications itself it just was an exercise
[1:03:11 - 1:03:18] ▶
it's like lift weightlifting you know you put more weights on it and put more weights on it until you
[1:03:18 - 1:03:22] ▶
get stronger and stronger in that box this is so wild though because it implies that the nsa has this
[1:03:22 - 1:03:27] ▶
whole protocol this whole like other language that they've developed which you know in cryptography or
[1:03:27 - 1:03:33] ▶
whatever maybe they have in some sense on the computer science layer but this is like a human
[1:03:33 - 1:03:38] ▶
intuitive psychic language that the nsa has well but i don't but i don't think the nsa i think they
[1:03:38 - 1:03:44] ▶
administer it but i don't think they unless you have an alien and an ic person doing it i don't think
[1:03:44 - 1:03:51] ▶
none of them can do it or got it or at least at the time maybe now they do i don't i don't know but
[1:03:52 - 1:03:59] ▶
um but that's even crazier right because that's almost implying that aliens coordinated with them
[1:03:59 - 1:04:06] ▶
to give humans the conventions through which like you could even lock on to this stuff like
[1:04:06 - 1:04:14] ▶
like aliens were deeply involved in this program or something they had to be yeah yeah yeah it's
[1:04:14 - 1:04:18] ▶
either that or they have this prodigia this like insane sort of psychic conventional language that
[1:04:18 - 1:04:25] ▶
they've created like like the nsa i mean yeah it's one or the other i i don't know if because i think
[1:04:25 - 1:04:31] ▶
it's a biological thing so anything biological would have to i mean i guess it could be engineered
[1:04:31 - 1:04:37] ▶
at some point you know with the technology that we have today sure it could be engine neuralink has
[1:04:37 - 1:04:41] ▶
a patent on psychic communicate on telepathic communications but that's like now right we're
[1:04:41 - 1:04:46] ▶
like looking into that and i do believe the narrative that things have existed in the black
[1:04:46 - 1:04:50] ▶
and then they sometimes are exfiltrated or they're like cover private companies that are actually far
[1:04:50 - 1:04:56] ▶
behind what's in the black that's fine but and there's an actual aspect of that in the story too
[1:04:56 - 1:05:01] ▶
with the white van but that's right yes we'll get over that well why don't we now so so so you're taken
[1:05:01 - 1:05:07] ▶
to this facility in this kind of you know nondescript blue van and then you see a i saw headlights one
[1:05:07 - 1:05:13] ▶
time or lights lights in the building that were not there typically and so i was like what's going on so
[1:05:13 - 1:05:20] ▶
i looked over to the left and i could see lights um shining on the wall that was in front of the
[1:05:20 - 1:05:25] ▶
blue van but over a little bit further to over on the other side of the van so i was obviously curious
[1:05:25 - 1:05:33] ▶
and so i went i didn't want to go into the front of the van because it's a driver you know i for some
[1:05:33 - 1:05:39] ▶
reason this driver had this miss mythical monster um imagery in my head because i could never talk to
[1:05:39 - 1:05:47] ▶
him i never knew who it was so i didn't want to get in his bad side so i went to the back of the van
[1:05:47 - 1:05:53] ▶
and i looked around and i saw the bumper of a white van it was a white van on on the other side of
[1:05:53 - 1:06:00] ▶
the blue van and that's what was had the headlights on and and as soon as i got back there he honked
[1:06:00 - 1:06:06] ▶
his horn the blue van honked his horn i was like oh okay never mind i'm going to my door thank you
[1:06:06 - 1:06:11] ▶
i don't don't eat me or do whatever you're going to do and so i i saw that white van and um later on
[1:06:11 - 1:06:20] ▶
i don't know how much later um days maybe i i was taking an exit to get to the hotel in maryland there
[1:06:20 - 1:06:29] ▶
and um i was turning right and i saw a white van turning left at that exit and i was and
[1:06:29 - 1:06:38] ▶
and i thought there's no possible way this could be the same van and but you know it's in the area
[1:06:38 - 1:06:46] ▶
and you know who knows right so i but then i remembered i remembered um i actually when i saw
[1:06:46 - 1:06:52] ▶
the van i remembered it not only then but i remembered it when i saw the van i was like that has a a dent
[1:06:52 - 1:06:59] ▶
it was an identifying feature and so i looked at it i looked at the white van that i saw at the exit and
[1:06:59 - 1:07:05] ▶
sure enough it had that same exact uh dent so my i was like what do i do what do i do do i do i do i
[1:07:05 - 1:07:12] ▶
um i had to follow it i mean there's just no possible way i was too curious so i i kind of nudged
[1:07:12 - 1:07:18] ▶
it over i put my sink blinker on and i nudged over to to follow that van and i went to um a a company called
[1:07:18 - 1:07:27] ▶
what's up guys one of today's sponsors is us american alchemy we just launched what i think
[1:07:27 - 1:07:37] ▶
is maybe the coolest merch line in the world when you're wearing it it's not like you're shilling me
[1:07:37 - 1:07:43] ▶
or the channel they're just really epic and i think they look good we have a couple of amazing designs
[1:07:43 - 1:07:48] ▶
for you we have our cowboy ufo tee pretty epic you see there's a rancher he's witnessing a ufo a little
[1:07:48 - 1:07:56] ▶
cow is getting abducted by the ufo in the background and then you know that i love mid-century history
[1:07:56 - 1:08:01] ▶
specifically spooky science atomic era stuff and so we have our atomic age tee here uh pretty cool vibe
[1:08:01 - 1:08:11] ▶
uh you got a robot serving this guy a little martini and then a ufo off to the side go to american
[1:08:11 - 1:08:19] ▶
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[1:08:19 - 1:08:29] ▶
cowboy tee that i'm wearing is a hundred percent cotton super relaxed fit we went for quality on these
[1:08:29 - 1:08:34] ▶
and it went to um a a company called noise cancellation technology nct
[1:08:40 - 1:08:46] ▶
um that's the name of the company nct i believe this they went by the initials and and i was like
[1:08:46 - 1:08:54] ▶
okay well there's some sort of interesting little correlation there
[1:08:55 - 1:09:00] ▶
more corroboration for dan sherman's story exists around this company he followed this mysterious
[1:09:02 - 1:09:08] ▶
second van into nct or noise cancellation technologies noise cancellation technologies
[1:09:08 - 1:09:14] ▶
incorporated is on record having had multiple contracts with government and military organizations
[1:09:14 - 1:09:20] ▶
in june of 1991 the washington post reported that noise cancellation technologies incorporated
[1:09:20 - 1:09:27] ▶
in linthicum maryland won a 210 thousand dollar contract from darpa or the defense advanced research
[1:09:27 - 1:09:35] ▶
projects agency for research and development well 1991 was exactly when dan sherman was getting
[1:09:35 - 1:09:41] ▶
trained as an intuitive communicator by project preserve destiny and linthicum maryland is right
[1:09:41 - 1:09:47] ▶
by where he was stationed getting trained by the nsa all of this was also a very short drive to fort meade
[1:09:47 - 1:09:53] ▶
where the government historically has run its psychic spy program but i'm sure all of these are just
[1:09:53 - 1:09:59] ▶
coincidences noise cancellation technologies military ties run even deeper the company is referenced in an
[1:09:59 - 1:10:05] ▶
office of naval research bulletin about acoustics research in europe and they've been publicly involved
[1:10:05 - 1:10:11] ▶
in further nasa and army funded research according to the company's own website nct is a leading
[1:10:11 - 1:10:17] ▶
technology company dedicated to the development and commercialization of active wave management
[1:10:17 - 1:10:23] ▶
applications the electronic manipulation of sound signal waves to reduce noise improve signal to noise
[1:10:23 - 1:10:29] ▶
ratios and enhance sound quality all sounds like stuff that could be pretty relevant to what a young
[1:10:29 - 1:10:35] ▶
sergeant dan sherman was doing for the nsa very interesting yeah yeah because he was in the same
[1:10:35 - 1:10:42] ▶
garage now you know i i don't know what the core i don't know what the exact correlation is well it
[1:10:42 - 1:10:48] ▶
makes total sense you're wearing headphones they're doing something with kind of exotic communications
[1:10:48 - 1:10:54] ▶
it's not one that you are making up there's there's corroboration uh of them working with the
[1:10:54 - 1:10:59] ▶
government and other contacts outside of this possible nsa collaboration well and they could be also doing
[1:10:59 - 1:11:04] ▶
a black project that's covering a great project so it's i mean there's high likelihood that that's true
[1:11:05 - 1:11:12] ▶
because i saw i mean i i correlated the two so yeah and you even talked about you've hypothesized that
[1:11:12 - 1:11:18] ▶
exotic propulsion might involve noise cancellation in some way i mean there there are all sorts of things
[1:11:18 - 1:11:22] ▶
that you know electromagnetic energy is it's an amazing uh phenomenon i agree it's funny in and around the
[1:11:22 - 1:11:29] ▶
the whole alien ufo space you get a lot of like lockheed martin executives like saying weird things like all you need
[1:11:29 - 1:11:38] ▶
is maxwell's or maxwell's equations and you change a thing or two and you're all good like implying that general
[1:11:38 - 1:11:45] ▶
relativity einstein even you know quantum mechanics in some ways are like way less important than maxwell which governs all of
[1:11:45 - 1:11:51] ▶
electromagnetism for things like exotic propulsion so yeah yeah it's very powerful and um yeah there
[1:11:51 - 1:12:00] ▶
there are even there are fields of like extended electrodynamics i don't know if you've ever heard of
[1:12:00 - 1:12:04] ▶
extended electrodynamics is that something that's uh it is it is i i've heard it yeah so it's this idea that um
[1:12:04 - 1:12:13] ▶
you know obviously in traditional electromagnetism you have a transverse hertzian wave so you have you know
[1:12:13 - 1:12:18] ▶
a b field an e field electric field a magnetic field which are perpendicular to one another and then perpendicular
[1:12:18 - 1:12:25] ▶
um as well as wave propagation and that's like pretty much all you can do right but that limits you like for under c
[1:12:25 - 1:12:32] ▶
communications uh you get electrons pairing off because of the presence of magnetic field you know
[1:12:32 - 1:12:38] ▶
obviously deep space communications are going to be hard it's going to decay at one over r squared
[1:12:38 - 1:12:43] ▶
and this is this idea that actually this navy whistleblower came out on my show that's described
[1:12:43 - 1:12:50] ▶
a couple of how put off has patents in this area and extended electrodynamics that there are exotic wave
[1:12:50 - 1:12:56] ▶
types uh in what's called a scalar field uh where wave propagation might occur at one over r instead of
[1:12:56 - 1:13:04] ▶
one over r squared so they attenuate way less over long distances in space time without increasing power
[1:13:04 - 1:13:11] ▶
with that what's that without increasing power and so it says it would be unlock all sorts of crazy
[1:13:11 - 1:13:16] ▶
crazy things if if true um and and how put off this really interesting character in all of this because
[1:13:16 - 1:13:24] ▶
he obviously ran the cia's psychic spy program and i've asked him point blank do you think psychic
[1:13:24 - 1:13:31] ▶
communication is occurring along the lines of this extended electrodynamics where you have patents
[1:13:31 - 1:13:37] ▶
and he's he said to me yeah i do think that's the case that's fantastic isn't that fascinating yeah
[1:13:37 - 1:13:43] ▶
i find that so interesting and he's using these josephson junction uh you know quantum receivers
[1:13:43 - 1:13:50] ▶
basically to to so it's these um you know vector and scalar potentials in the sub-quantum field that
[1:13:50 - 1:13:56] ▶
are doing the communications um so this is absolutely mind-blowing um and it makes sense right because like
[1:13:56 - 1:14:03] ▶
you look at the early stargate experiments you look at the stuff you know we're going to get into with
[1:14:03 - 1:14:08] ▶
you they would put remote viewers you know in submarines and put them at the bottom of the ocean
[1:14:08 - 1:14:14] ▶
and they would have the exact same you know all this stuff seems to be agnostic of both space and time
[1:14:14 - 1:14:20] ▶
they'd get the exact same results and efficacy when it come came to remote viewing and so it would
[1:14:20 - 1:14:25] ▶
make sense that you'd have some exotic electromagnetic communication ability that yeah yeah that's
[1:14:25 - 1:14:32] ▶
mind-boggling okay so you're you're at this school and you're going every day and you're in this van
[1:14:33 - 1:14:39] ▶
and you've tracked down this other van are you still whatever happened to electronics intelligence
[1:14:39 - 1:14:44] ▶
school the air force continuing education thing that you were supposed to do well i had to do that
[1:14:44 - 1:14:47] ▶
during the day okay i was doing that for you know seven eight hours and then i would come back to
[1:14:47 - 1:14:53] ▶
the hotel and have a little break and then i'd get picked up again by the van so did anybody say hey
[1:14:53 - 1:14:58] ▶
dan you want to you know go out tonight grab a drink or something yeah well what would you have
[1:14:58 - 1:15:02] ▶
to say i was the loner you know i was always the one that was no no i'm good yeah i'm a little tired
[1:15:02 - 1:15:08] ▶
yeah yeah and i i did get asked um several times they would they would ask me where are you going because
[1:15:08 - 1:15:18] ▶
you're you're not in your room and your car is here where are you going and i always had some sort of
[1:15:19 - 1:15:24] ▶
excuse like i met a girl or you know we went out and you know i she drove and that's true of anybody
[1:15:24 - 1:15:31] ▶
that's in these types of things is it doesn't comport with reality with with your real life so you have to
[1:15:31 - 1:15:39] ▶
create this alternative universe sometimes where you have to exist in that universe too with other people
[1:15:39 - 1:15:47] ▶
and like nobody at any of my my bases they they didn't know what was going on either and i mean i can't
[1:15:47 - 1:15:55] ▶
remember specific examples but i'm sure that i had to come up with some bs when something didn't exactly gel with
[1:15:55 - 1:16:03] ▶
gel with what was supposed to be going on like in the van so it that is just the life of somebody who
[1:16:03 - 1:16:10] ▶
is in that type of situation and you were you were given a code right for project preserve destiny like
[1:16:10 - 1:16:16] ▶
you had a code name or something oh um staunch yeah staunch 118 staunch 118 yeah okay and that was
[1:16:16 - 1:16:25] ▶
that was on the computer screen when i would um open up the dialogue box i would have to choose staunch 118
[1:16:25 - 1:16:32] ▶
and so what how long does your schooling last and what happened i think it was three months okay yeah
[1:16:32 - 1:16:37] ▶
i'm i believe that and no no alien direct communication during the schooling you're just
[1:16:37 - 1:16:43] ▶
told to flatten these wait okay and so what what happens next i go back to my base um that i was
[1:16:43 - 1:16:50] ▶
stationed at the time and just went back to my elit job doing stuff and um then um i'm not exactly sure
[1:16:50 - 1:16:59] ▶
how long it was but several months went by and i finally got orders um to my first ppd base which
[1:16:59 - 1:17:10] ▶
was overseas and um and then i went to that that base and i was there for uh again my security
[1:17:10 - 1:17:21] ▶
clearances weren't there yet so i was kind of in this limbo state um and they finally came and then i got a
[1:17:21 - 1:17:28] ▶
phone call like we mentioned earlier um somebody knocked on my door and said somebody wants you
[1:17:28 - 1:17:36] ▶
on the phone the dorm phone it was outdoors too it was a it was in a warm climate and um so there
[1:17:36 - 1:17:43] ▶
were outdoor hallways and so we uh i would have to go around the rent around the building and the phone
[1:17:43 - 1:17:50] ▶
was on the outside there and so anyway picked it up and it was captain white um my first contact
[1:17:50 - 1:17:56] ▶
officer and he said you're going to be he told me the name of the my uh next contact which happened
[1:17:56 - 1:18:03] ▶
to be my unit commander um and which kind of makes sense because i think he was the only captain there
[1:18:03 - 1:18:11] ▶
in our vision or in our little area and so um he told me his name and and and that he'll be crossing
[1:18:11 - 1:18:21] ▶
his arms and his arms and i already knew who he was i i don't know why this was all so cloak and
[1:18:21 - 1:18:26] ▶
dagger because all he would have said had to say was it's your unit commander you can just go talk to
[1:18:26 - 1:18:31] ▶
him but anyway they did all the crossing arms and stuff and um so he told me when to meet him and he'll
[1:18:31 - 1:18:39] ▶
be out front and so i went and at that time and did it met him and he took me into the facility
[1:18:39 - 1:18:46] ▶
um we the facility that i worked it was a a base that was kind of had one mission but we had this
[1:18:46 - 1:18:56] ▶
like little detachment that was part of the base it was on base but we had our own little security
[1:18:56 - 1:19:01] ▶
system fences the whole nine yards and because it was way more classified than anything going on in the
[1:19:01 - 1:19:08] ▶
base and so um it has its own guard check and its own requirements to go through and all that and
[1:19:08 - 1:19:16] ▶
its own um security systems in the buildings and all so we went in he brought me into a conference room
[1:19:16 - 1:19:25] ▶
and i was there with um another person that was from my base that the other base we just so happened
[1:19:25 - 1:19:33] ▶
that we got assigned here together and we were going through the same indoctrination for our job
[1:19:33 - 1:19:38] ▶
and all that and so he was there too and um and a couple other people too and so we were being
[1:19:38 - 1:19:47] ▶
indoctrinated into the into the program into the black project that we were in and um
[1:19:47 - 1:19:53] ▶
um and then as i recall i think he uh captain took me aside somebody they they took other people for
[1:19:53 - 1:20:05] ▶
a tour of the facility and the captain said i'm going to take dan and so that's when he brought me
[1:20:05 - 1:20:12] ▶
into um well we talked in the conference room first and he told me you know we talked about the the
[1:20:12 - 1:20:20] ▶
the program and and um just you know small talk about the program you went to school and oh great
[1:20:20 - 1:20:27] ▶
you got certified and and you're gonna be an intuitive communicator and that cool you know just
[1:20:27 - 1:20:32] ▶
had this little banter and and and then he took me into the one of the uh we call them the c vans
[1:20:32 - 1:20:40] ▶
c is for communication but you don't have to have a communication in the c van it's just a c van that's
[1:20:41 - 1:20:46] ▶
what they call them and so um we had several c vans on site and one was our particular part of the
[1:20:46 - 1:20:56] ▶
black project and so he took me in there it's a two-person van for security reasons there always
[1:20:56 - 1:21:03] ▶
has to be two people in the van at all times other than a little bit of bathroom break here and there
[1:21:03 - 1:21:08] ▶
um and um he i asked about the the other aspect of my job the black project he said don't worry about
[1:21:08 - 1:21:18] ▶
that you'll be other people will talk to you about that i'm going to talk to you about the gray project
[1:21:18 - 1:21:22] ▶
and so he showed me how to open the the screen and i already knew how to do all this from the the
[1:21:22 - 1:21:29] ▶
previous time but he maybe thought i didn't i don't know or he didn't know that it was the same system
[1:21:29 - 1:21:34] ▶
but he showed me how to bring up the box the communications box and um just went over the
[1:21:34 - 1:21:42] ▶
logistics of it you know how i would be with this other guy but we couldn't intermingle as far as
[1:21:42 - 1:21:48] ▶
you know he didn't know about this and we had what was called left seat and right seat seemed like you
[1:21:48 - 1:21:53] ▶
know for pilots you know they had the left seat and the right seat we had that too the left seat was the
[1:21:53 - 1:21:59] ▶
different aspect of the black job black project job and mine the right seat was another aspect of the
[1:21:59 - 1:22:06] ▶
black project but then also mine was a great project and in my computer i had that thing that
[1:22:06 - 1:22:11] ▶
i could open up the dial-up box and he said i asked him you know when is it going to start do i do you
[1:22:11 - 1:22:18] ▶
know when i'm going to start communicating or you know he knew nothing he's like all i know is this is
[1:22:18 - 1:22:24] ▶
your box this is your man that's crazy and that's all i know so so you're you're sitting across from
[1:22:24 - 1:22:29] ▶
a guy who's doing normal classified electronics intelligence you're sitting next to a guy who's
[1:22:29 - 1:22:35] ▶
doing traditional conventional electronics intelligence work and i was too but and you
[1:22:35 - 1:22:40] ▶
were as well but then you had this other yeah thing that you're doing around intuitive communication
[1:22:40 - 1:22:45] ▶
yeah and that guy has no idea what you're doing no no and the guy who's briefing you who presumably
[1:22:45 - 1:22:51] ▶
captain white told you about uh he knows very little in some ways like he's giving you he's
[1:22:51 - 1:22:58] ▶
just the administrator he he doesn't know did you ever try to kind of cross check because i'm sure
[1:22:58 - 1:23:04] ▶
i'm sure along the way you're trying to suss this project out you know throughout not the time not the
[1:23:04 - 1:23:09] ▶
time okay no you were just taking orders yeah exactly did you did you ever try and you have to remember
[1:23:09 - 1:23:15] ▶
so this is before the internet before you know you're just isolated basically you're intellectually
[1:23:15 - 1:23:21] ▶
isolated you're just following orders and that's it you know today i could just get on google and go
[1:23:21 - 1:23:28] ▶
you know do all kinds of research about stuff but i couldn't back then did you ever try to just
[1:23:29 - 1:23:34] ▶
see if this other you know air force officer captain who's dealing with ppd at this or project
[1:23:35 - 1:23:42] ▶
preserved destiny at this overseas base if his answers coincided with what you were told initially
[1:23:42 - 1:23:50] ▶
by captain white to see you know could kind of cross check well they were all coincided they did
[1:23:50 - 1:23:54] ▶
yeah yeah everything was the same okay yeah so there it wasn't like because yeah if i were you i'd be
[1:23:54 - 1:23:59] ▶
like well maybe i am getting hazed and i'd try to poke and like ask person b the same questions i asked
[1:23:59 - 1:24:06] ▶
person a and see if their answers were the same my intentions were not as devious as that fair enough
[1:24:06 - 1:24:11] ▶
yeah i just was wide-eyed and bushy-tailed that's all sure sure i was just following orders but from
[1:24:11 - 1:24:18] ▶
your experience it the answers were mostly the same it felt very coherent yeah definitely yeah i mean
[1:24:18 - 1:24:24] ▶
and they knew so very little that it was very easy to be coherent because there was not much to it you
[1:24:24 - 1:24:30] ▶
know and this is actually i think you said at the book this guy's name was sergeant larson is that right
[1:24:30 - 1:24:36] ▶
no it was a captain i think the larson was a sergeant he was in the room with us but he wasn't okay
[1:24:36 - 1:24:42] ▶
involved with but i believe i believe from your book you asked sergeant larson
[1:24:42 - 1:24:47] ▶
some questions about the secrecy and he went into the onion stuff but he didn't say the gray black
[1:24:48 - 1:24:55] ▶
oh he didn't talk about the great black during our during our black introduction he went into the
[1:24:55 - 1:25:01] ▶
onion thing yeah which was which which to me is interesting because it was like he was holding
[1:25:01 - 1:25:05] ▶
back the idea that the gray projects are concealed within the the black projects and so no okay
[1:25:05 - 1:25:11] ▶
interesting yeah he he only went up to the black project because he probably got a at some point a
[1:25:11 - 1:25:17] ▶
speech about onion the onion aspect but only to the black yeah layer so to speak because in your book
[1:25:17 - 1:25:23] ▶
you're you're thinking like you know i know something you don't know or something yeah yeah
[1:25:23 - 1:25:27] ▶
yeah yeah yeah interesting that's true okay so you are sitting at this sort of terminal does it look
[1:25:27 - 1:25:33] ▶
basically the same as you know the nsa complex that you were in no i can't remember but they i think
[1:25:33 - 1:25:39] ▶
they all had about the same like the basic yeah these big sun or spark i think they were spark uh monitors
[1:25:39 - 1:25:46] ▶
we had yeah i don't even know the brand yeah it it was um back then you know
[1:25:46 - 1:25:52] ▶
you know monitors were this big and and wide you know big and the screen was only about that big
[1:25:52 - 1:26:01] ▶
so when we had these big spark uh monitors everybody's like you know anybody that look at it and not
[1:26:01 - 1:26:07] ▶
not familiar like wow you you got the cadillac here what's going on here you guys your budget's high
[1:26:07 - 1:26:14] ▶
so yeah we have these spark i think they were called spark i think that was the name sun spark something
[1:26:14 - 1:26:20] ▶
like that and so you put your headphones on you take the pills same thing yep um no no no headphones
[1:26:20 - 1:26:26] ▶
no headphones yeah we didn't have headphones in the in the van okay um uh but you know i had a mouse and
[1:26:26 - 1:26:33] ▶
and the and the monitor and yeah i took the pills he he told me that he had a bottle of pills he said um
[1:26:33 - 1:26:40] ▶
you have to take these i said yeah we i took those in school too and he says i said two right and he goes
[1:26:41 - 1:26:47] ▶
no just one take one i was like oh okay well it was two before yeah okay so i'll take one now and we
[1:26:47 - 1:26:54] ▶
had these little um each compartment had storage units and and we would we would share these seats
[1:26:54 - 1:27:03] ▶
with other people i mean we were the only shift we were one shift but then another shift would come
[1:27:03 - 1:27:08] ▶
in so we had our own little cubby so to speak for each person and i would just keep pills there okay
[1:27:08 - 1:27:14] ▶
okay and so you are in this van as that's your workstation now and you take the pills and then
[1:27:14 - 1:27:21] ▶
what are you told to do he didn't tell me to do anything he said it's just going to come when it
[1:27:21 - 1:27:25] ▶
comes and and it's going to start when it starts that's it that's all the direction i got i was like uh
[1:27:25 - 1:27:31] ▶
do what um is there any should i expect anything is there any timing on this this is i have no idea you're
[1:27:33 - 1:27:41] ▶
just i'm i'm here to tell you how to how to facilitate what you're supposed to do and that's
[1:27:41 - 1:27:47] ▶
it so it took a while it took um i can't remember how long but it was it was a while later that the
[1:27:47 - 1:27:55] ▶
first con came and that's when it the ball started rolling so to speak and when you say the first comms
[1:27:55 - 1:28:03] ▶
came you weren't just get it receiving basically thoughts yep um i would receive like a
[1:28:03 - 1:28:11] ▶
uh i think the first communication was something like prepare prepare for receiving or prepare for
[1:28:11 - 1:28:19] ▶
something prepare for communication and that would be the the thing that would kick off like i my
[1:28:19 - 1:28:26] ▶
attention would go towards that did those thoughts have a different quality from your own thoughts
[1:28:26 - 1:28:31] ▶
um yeah yeah it was it was within a um uh it's really really really hard um
[1:28:31 - 1:28:43] ▶
it was an area of my brain and when you think you don't think of an area like you know when let's say
[1:28:46 - 1:28:54] ▶
you're thinking about you know the the mic stand and you're
[1:28:54 - 1:29:00] ▶
you don't you can't correlate where that is in your head that you're thinking that i mean you
[1:29:01 - 1:29:06] ▶
don't know where the snaps are going but with um with the ic communication you can feel it in your
[1:29:06 - 1:29:15] ▶
brain you can feel now you can't you can't localize it it's not a localization but i can feel like it's in
[1:29:15 - 1:29:22] ▶
that area of my brain right there whoa and it's like a colorful tapestry and you have you can focus
[1:29:22 - 1:29:30] ▶
on this over here you can focus right here you can focus right here you can focus over here you can
[1:29:30 - 1:29:34] ▶
but it's it's focused wherever wherever that um tickle comes from you focus right there okay that's where
[1:29:34 - 1:29:42] ▶
it's coming from and then that stops and you go okay there's something over here so i focus on that
[1:29:42 - 1:29:48] ▶
and so the when the first communication would come in i in my mind's eye so to speak the tapestry came
[1:29:48 - 1:29:55] ▶
up and i was like okay this is where i'm communicating right now i'm communicating this tapestry that's
[1:29:55 - 1:30:02] ▶
the only way i can really voc vocalize the visualization do you remember which parts of your
[1:30:02 - 1:30:07] ▶
no no there was i couldn't i couldn't localize it yeah you know but i could tell that it's in a certain
[1:30:07 - 1:30:14] ▶
area whoa yeah yeah so somehow more of a discrete area than yeah the general i felt it it's more of
[1:30:14 - 1:30:22] ▶
a feel than it is a scene but it you could feel that it's coming from a certain area did it feel
[1:30:22 - 1:30:28] ▶
more foreign than your thought like did your do your thoughts feel like yours and these thoughts felt
[1:30:28 - 1:30:33] ▶
like others yeah it felt like it was external from the kind of when compared to your own thoughts yeah
[1:30:33 - 1:30:40] ▶
it wasn't external it didn't feel it didn't really feel external it was here i know but
[1:30:40 - 1:30:44] ▶
but compared to your own thoughts it feels very foreign and very different so what happens next so i
[1:30:44 - 1:30:51] ▶
started uh getting communications started receiving them i pop up the the window and i would start typing
[1:30:51 - 1:30:58] ▶
the whatever i was interpreting at receiving and um at first it was just numbers it was um it was the idea
[1:30:58 - 1:31:10] ▶
well i would get a preamble like the one and one eight and this is where i'm really showing my how long
[1:31:11 - 1:31:20] ▶
ago this was but it was like that and then i think there was like a um a five digit or six digit or something
[1:31:20 - 1:31:28] ▶
like that number after the one one eight and i never really knew what that was but it was something
[1:31:28 - 1:31:33] ▶
i called it a zip code because it looked like a zip code but it wasn't it wasn't a zip code um and then
[1:31:33 - 1:31:39] ▶
i would do slashes after each um focus you know of where in the tapestry i'd go again and so i'd put a
[1:31:40 - 1:31:50] ▶
slash and then i put the whatever it was and it was just numbers just initially so you were almost
[1:31:50 - 1:31:56] ▶
picturing a canvas and like words coming on no no it wasn't no it like when you say slash how are you
[1:31:56 - 1:32:06] ▶
you're seeing the slash no no um when i would receive the communication and i'm i'm this is me um
[1:32:06 - 1:32:15] ▶
putting this into words but it's not necessarily exactly this but this is the best way i can convey it
[1:32:16 - 1:32:23] ▶
there's this area in my brain or in my thoughts and it's like a tapestry that has a lot of depth and
[1:32:23 - 1:32:34] ▶
it has it can be very colorful i think that's just my interpretation of of what's going on i think the
[1:32:34 - 1:32:42] ▶
colors would be different for other people but it's just it has color to it and so i would see in my
[1:32:42 - 1:32:50] ▶
mind's eye i would see that there's a communication right in this area of that overall tapestry so to
[1:32:50 - 1:32:56] ▶
speak and then i would look at that i mean i would concentrate on it i would focus on that and that
[1:32:56 - 1:33:02] ▶
would be a communication and it would be it could be an image it could be a number it could be a feeling
[1:33:02 - 1:33:08] ▶
a smell it could be anything it could be whatever we can convey in communication
[1:33:08 - 1:33:13] ▶
like i could i could um make a smell here and i can communicate that to you well that that smell
[1:33:13 - 1:33:21] ▶
would be communicated to you and i could do that in that too i could i could actually um although i
[1:33:21 - 1:33:28] ▶
don't think i ever did but i think i could actually get a smell through that i could get any type of
[1:33:28 - 1:33:34] ▶
communication through it so i would look at that focus on that and then i would convey that and then i
[1:33:34 - 1:33:40] ▶
would put a slash and then another area would come into focus and i would focus on that and then
[1:33:40 - 1:33:46] ▶
put that communication down put a slash and then another area would come up and i would put a slash
[1:33:46 - 1:33:52] ▶
so i would get these different communications through these different focuses yeah and when you
[1:33:52 - 1:33:59] ▶
say put a slash are you on the computer on that you're typing type the computer so you think and then
[1:33:59 - 1:34:04] ▶
you'd type i would receive yeah yeah and and type it whatever it was that was in that little area of the
[1:34:04 - 1:34:11] ▶
communication okay and then i put a slash when that was over or done or went on to another one so they
[1:34:11 - 1:34:18] ▶
they were they were um concepts that were in different bites so to speak so as soon as you comprehended
[1:34:18 - 1:34:26] ▶
a particular concept you'd put a slash and then you'd get another communication but i would i would see it
[1:34:26 - 1:34:32] ▶
not not visually but i would know that was there i could feel it in another area and i would concentrate
[1:34:32 - 1:34:39] ▶
on that and i could get that did you receive it and were you thinking in words or were you thinking
[1:34:39 - 1:34:45] ▶
in content when you were receiving yeah i would have to images because we're humans so we you'd have
[1:34:45 - 1:34:51] ▶
to translate it exactly exactly well it wasn't so much a translation like would it come through yeah
[1:34:51 - 1:34:57] ▶
it would come through in that okay it would come through in that whatever it was that i was
[1:34:57 - 1:35:01] ▶
um uh reporting yeah um like in that area i would see the numbers i would see four five seven eight two
[1:35:02 - 1:35:10] ▶
and i would type that and then later on when i started getting visual stuff i would see like a
[1:35:11 - 1:35:18] ▶
little like one time i i saw um a missile um uh being launched and or not it wasn't a missile it was a
[1:35:18 - 1:35:28] ▶
rocket rocket rocket and um i could see around the payload area i could see the seams and a and a
[1:35:28 - 1:35:36] ▶
like it had blown up i could actually see that in my in that tapestry so to speak and so i would ex
[1:35:37 - 1:35:45] ▶
i would describe that i mean like rocket blowing up and i mean you could get into a higher or a lower level
[1:35:45 - 1:35:54] ▶
of detail depending on how much time you had to type and but and and the visual wasn't there for
[1:35:54 - 1:35:59] ▶
long either it would just come and i would see it and then it would it would fade out did you try to
[1:35:59 - 1:36:05] ▶
correlate the thoughts or messages you were receiving with real events so like that rocket blowing up
[1:36:05 - 1:36:12] ▶
you know look up you know i mean that's hard to do you don't have the internet but i did um um
[1:36:12 - 1:36:18] ▶
there was a it was in the news i think there was a um a chinese launch of a of a rocket that had blown up
[1:36:19 - 1:36:28] ▶
i don't remember whether i correlated it with that or not but i remember looking that up and seeing that
[1:36:30 - 1:36:35] ▶
but i don't remember if it was the same one that you received yeah because in your book you say like
[1:36:35 - 1:36:40] ▶
arianne likes you know certain company launches you felt like you were tapping into the actual
[1:36:40 - 1:36:44] ▶
rockets launching which is fascinating like well i think it was just um whoever's got their fingers
[1:36:45 - 1:36:54] ▶
on the pulse of whatever is going on here i think it was their um way of testing my ability to
[1:36:54 - 1:37:01] ▶
convey different types of messages you know different different um genres so to speak yeah
[1:37:01 - 1:37:08] ▶
and and it could have been you know they were testing my ability to describe what was going on
[1:37:08 - 1:37:14] ▶
in a in a military type of functioning or the you know mechanical and and all the stuff that went along
[1:37:14 - 1:37:22] ▶
what i saw you know did i describe was it white or would i describe the length of it or what would
[1:37:23 - 1:37:31] ▶
i actually describe when given that message and so kind of testing and i'm sure everybody else who
[1:37:31 - 1:37:38] ▶
was doing a they was an ic in the system was getting the same types of things so that you can see
[1:37:38 - 1:37:45] ▶
who is better at what or this is what i was thinking later on when i thought about this is that
[1:37:45 - 1:37:51] ▶
it could have been like a testing who is able to do what at what point do you start speaking with
[1:37:51 - 1:37:58] ▶
aliens um that was it that was during that time that was a coming from an alien and and does that alien
[1:37:58 - 1:38:07] ▶
reveal itself as having a personality um yeah the the first one he was i sensed a very logical
[1:38:07 - 1:38:16] ▶
structure and and um i look back on it now i don't think i really um kind of
[1:38:16 - 1:38:27] ▶
i didn't put it in the best words back when i wrote the book but i but i look on it now and i think it
[1:38:28 - 1:38:33] ▶
was the um i did say in the book that i think i said that he was very logical it was very um
[1:38:33 - 1:38:40] ▶
more structured the communication was a little bit more structured and it wasn't as you know that tapestry
[1:38:42 - 1:38:48] ▶
that i talked about it wasn't as um his wasn't as um um abstract or yeah it was much more
[1:38:48 - 1:38:59] ▶
i i wish i had more experiences of more aliens so i could see the differences because i only saw two
[1:39:01 - 1:39:08] ▶
and the and spock the first one he was um his tapestry and again i just say tapestry because i don't know how to
[1:39:08 - 1:39:15] ▶
explain it but um his fog so to speak or whatever was very um very linear yeah it was uh in my mind's
[1:39:15 - 1:39:28] ▶
eye it was very straight like this his communications were in a straight line like the the one area would
[1:39:28 - 1:39:36] ▶
have one piece of communication and then it would be right here and then it'd be right here and then
[1:39:36 - 1:39:40] ▶
it'd be right here and then it'd be right here right so it was very straight and does he introduce
[1:39:40 - 1:39:45] ▶
himself or you call him small no okay so i guess i have to explain that uh um the reason why i no i
[1:39:45 - 1:39:54] ▶
never got a name from him or anything like that but his communications were very logical and so my friend
[1:39:54 - 1:40:02] ▶
and i were we were star trek fans and i just thought it was funny just to to refer to him as spock and and
[1:40:02 - 1:40:09] ▶
and i wasn't referring to him to anybody else so the joke was lost on on the world yeah until i wrote
[1:40:09 - 1:40:15] ▶
my book but did you address him directly when you're sending messages back did you address him as spock or
[1:40:15 - 1:40:20] ▶
no no no no i i never no i never said that um i i don't even know if he would know who spock was
[1:40:20 - 1:40:29] ▶
we don't know do we maybe we don't even know it's a he yeah yeah well i think that
[1:40:30 - 1:40:35] ▶
there was i guess no but but i did sense that it was a male okay male energy and um what is spock saying
[1:40:35 - 1:40:45] ▶
to you well it was all very very um number oriented it wasn't until i got to my second base that i
[1:40:45 - 1:40:54] ▶
started getting the imagery type stuff um but the first was very uh spock well okay so at the end of
[1:40:54 - 1:41:04] ▶
my time at first the first base um i was doing a communication i was receiving something and the
[1:41:04 - 1:41:13] ▶
only reason that i would communicate back to him is like can you repeat that or can you say that again
[1:41:13 - 1:41:19] ▶
or do that again um i there was no real back and forth but i went into and this is the hardest thing
[1:41:19 - 1:41:28] ▶
to explain i think um and i say plain but it was um
[1:41:28 - 1:41:34] ▶
i wanted to ask him a question so i was really hesitant to do that i wanted to start asking questions
[1:41:38 - 1:41:44] ▶
and i was i was trying to get up the the courage to break from the formality of our communications
[1:41:44 - 1:41:52] ▶
so that i could ask a question and i really didn't know how to do that intuitively i didn't know i didn't
[1:41:52 - 1:41:58] ▶
know um what the protocol would be for that i was receiving stuff and i could actually convey messages
[1:41:58 - 1:42:06] ▶
back as far as feedback and stuff but i didn't know what the the the formality would be to have an
[1:42:06 - 1:42:13] ▶
informal conversation or or to ask something that had nothing to do with our communication so i i think
[1:42:13 - 1:42:21] ▶
it was because i was so um anxious or um i charged about it that i i asked him a question but then it
[1:42:21 - 1:42:35] ▶
it was the weirdest thing because it went into another i i say plain but i can't really explain it
[1:42:36 - 1:42:42] ▶
it was a different it was a different tapestry let's just say that way you know the the tapestry
[1:42:42 - 1:42:46] ▶
that i keep on alluding to it was a like a um you know how i said you can focus um further away and
[1:42:46 - 1:42:57] ▶
then closer you know like the lens that i told you about the camera yeah um this one was like a
[1:42:57 - 1:43:05] ▶
like a like a macro like it came came closer to me and it was and it was different it was different
[1:43:05 - 1:43:12] ▶
than the the um tapestry that i keep talking about anyway so i asked him a question in this plane and i
[1:43:12 - 1:43:19] ▶
didn't and it shocked me when i did that it because when i asked the question i was just asking it in the
[1:43:19 - 1:43:24] ▶
other realm so to speak but when i did that it came up closer again closer isn't a proximity but it was just
[1:43:24 - 1:43:33] ▶
my my way of explaining the visual of it in my head um and and so i asked the question and then i also
[1:43:33 - 1:43:43] ▶
shocked myself because i was like that's a different i i said that differently it went out differently yeah
[1:43:43 - 1:43:50] ▶
and then he i sensed he was also shocked like i didn't realize that you could do that
[1:43:50 - 1:43:58] ▶
i can't remember the exact communication but um and so i i asked questions and honestly i can't remember a lot of the questions i asked i i i'm
[1:43:58 - 1:44:10] ▶
it's what was the so you have this different plane of communication initially when you're communicating with spock
[1:44:10 - 1:44:16] ▶
you're just giving you like strings of numbers like things that don't mean much to you or yeah well i i mean
[1:44:16 - 1:44:23] ▶
none of it well until we got to the imagery part it none of it really meant anything to me so it was
[1:44:23 - 1:44:28] ▶
like you were just relaying this information to just a conduit the nsa yeah and but you didn't really know
[1:44:28 - 1:44:34] ▶
what you were relaying yeah exactly but then when i asked these did i ask a question and and again i can't
[1:44:34 - 1:44:42] ▶
remember the name what the question was but um he he seemed shocked and i i said am i allowed to speak
[1:44:42 - 1:44:52] ▶
like this in this realm or i can't remember how i said it but like at this level and and he said yeah
[1:44:52 - 1:45:02] ▶
it's it's fine and we just didn't realize that you could and i'm paraphrasing of course my thoughts but
[1:45:02 - 1:45:06] ▶
we just didn't realize that you could do that and i was like oh okay so is this okay and he goes yeah
[1:45:06 - 1:45:14] ▶
it's fine but um but he didn't want to but again he didn't want to chat though i mean it wasn't a i
[1:45:14 - 1:45:21] ▶
don't think it was it was in the purview of the the program to chat with these people it was or these
[1:45:21 - 1:45:27] ▶
humans you know it was just the the testing that was going on but i was able to ask you know the
[1:45:27 - 1:45:33] ▶
questions i wrote in the book you know i had some questions and overall overall impressions of what
[1:45:33 - 1:45:38] ▶
i got from those questions what are what are some of those questions that you have well like the like
[1:45:38 - 1:45:43] ▶
the um how did they get here how did they travel and about time because i've always been interested
[1:45:43 - 1:45:50] ▶
in time yeah i asked him about going back and forward in time and he said you can't really go back
[1:45:50 - 1:45:55] ▶
and forward in time because time is a relative thing so you don't know if if you're going back then
[1:45:55 - 1:46:01] ▶
what are you coming back from there's there's no there's no solid moment in time that you can
[1:46:01 - 1:46:07] ▶
measure from to go back and forward from so but he said you can go around time and i didn't really
[1:46:07 - 1:46:14] ▶
understand when he was telling me that i was not understanding what he was saying by saying that i mean
[1:46:14 - 1:46:22] ▶
there wasn't any um it wasn't a thesis written out so that i can analyze it he just gave me the
[1:46:22 - 1:46:29] ▶
impression that you can go around time and i think that's how they do their travel too is is they they
[1:46:29 - 1:46:34] ▶
use time but in in a way that we really can't we don't really understand could be like in a higher
[1:46:34 - 1:46:42] ▶
dimensional space or something i mean this is all you know total speculation but like maybe you know
[1:46:42 - 1:46:48] ▶
you think about the fourth dimension of time or time as humans know it and it is this linear you know
[1:46:48 - 1:46:54] ▶
permanently progressing thing you get in the river you know that's the kind of metaphor you know and
[1:46:54 - 1:46:59] ▶
and you can't get out you know but if you had a higher dimensional you know temporal dimension or
[1:46:59 - 1:47:05] ▶
something you might be able to you know jump in and out or so like think about actually like a like
[1:47:05 - 1:47:12] ▶
a tesseract you know and the tesseract is is is uh curling around or whatever it's like kind of like a
[1:47:12 - 1:47:20] ▶
sine wave or like a snake or something um and you think of that as you know it's 3d 3d uh uh you know
[1:47:20 - 1:47:28] ▶
inside of it or whatever so you have like north south east west above sea level below sea level so
[1:47:28 - 1:47:33] ▶
you have three degrees of motion and um you know if you were to you could hop from this part of the
[1:47:33 - 1:47:40] ▶
coil to this part of the coil or whatever and that would be actually like a very short distance if you
[1:47:40 - 1:47:46] ▶
had some higher abstraction of time yeah but it wouldn't if that was all you had right and that's
[1:47:46 - 1:47:52] ▶
where the wormholes come in where you come one one aspect of the temporal to the next aspect of the
[1:47:52 - 1:47:57] ▶
temporal so you can travel between the two yeah yeah it's i i didn't really i didn't understand it and
[1:47:57 - 1:48:03] ▶
i just kind of it it was my understanding of my rudimentary level of communication you know of
[1:48:04 - 1:48:12] ▶
knowing knowledge and in time and all that that's where i i distilled it to that he said around time
[1:48:12 - 1:48:19] ▶
but he could have meant something different too i don't know well john wheeler the famous princeton
[1:48:19 - 1:48:24] ▶
physicist thought that there might be wheeler tunnels everywhere which are basically little wormholes
[1:48:24 - 1:48:28] ▶
or black holes nobody knows what happens beyond the event horizon of the black hole and so yeah and
[1:48:28 - 1:48:33] ▶
then obviously time and gravity have this really important connection and you get these super dense you
[1:48:33 - 1:48:39] ▶
know formations like black holes time moves slower and so you you know almost theoretically yeah yeah
[1:48:39 - 1:48:45] ▶
yeah it's it's it definitely was fascinating and just the little bit that i did get from him
[1:48:46 - 1:48:51] ▶
it blew my mind um and he also um mentioned uh we talked about uh the sun he said that
[1:48:51 - 1:49:00] ▶
it's almost as if they respected our sun um more than you would think that and you know you we take the sun
[1:49:14 - 1:49:23] ▶
for granted it's just the sun you know that that's where we get sunlight and energy and and it's no big
[1:49:23 - 1:49:29] ▶
deal but he he kind of i felt it was more of a reverence uh um feeling towards the sun because he was
[1:49:29 - 1:49:36] ▶
talking about how we really don't understand the the value of our sun and that we will at some point
[1:49:36 - 1:49:43] ▶
eventually understand it it's funny i um had an off-record conversation so i won't say who it was with
[1:49:43 - 1:49:51] ▶
but with somebody who i think is knowledgeable around ufo reverse engineering programs and he made
[1:49:51 - 1:49:57] ▶
this analogy of the sun being some sort of like portal to other star systems and i don't know you
[1:49:57 - 1:50:04] ▶
think about the history the sun is so interesting you have on gotten you know this the sun god and
[1:50:04 - 1:50:09] ▶
even if you read isaac asimov wrote a book called the kingdom of the sun where it talks about the changing
[1:50:09 - 1:50:14] ▶
conception of humanity's understanding of the sun and you read about you know copernicus who you know
[1:50:14 - 1:50:21] ▶
theorized the heliocentric universe and he had this very mystical conception of the sun that went well
[1:50:21 - 1:50:26] ▶
beyond just him thinking it was some you know lynchpin or whatever necessary necessary for you know uh
[1:50:26 - 1:50:34] ▶
uh planetary orbits or whatever yeah um so yeah yeah it's it's um and we are you know we are discovering
[1:50:34 - 1:50:41] ▶
more and more about the sun and we're sending probes and and all that and it's still a very wide open
[1:50:41 - 1:50:49] ▶
uh discovery platform i think for science definitely and yeah i think you write in your book that spock
[1:50:49 - 1:50:57] ▶
even said that your scientists are just now figuring out how the sun generates energy and you know you
[1:50:57 - 1:51:04] ▶
have obviously kardashev scales which kind of measure you know how advanced the civilization is and you
[1:51:04 - 1:51:10] ▶
know level two would be basically creating a dyson sphere which is harnessing the energy of the sun
[1:51:10 - 1:51:15] ▶
so maybe not in our lifetime but maybe not in our lifetime but i mean the sun is a fusion generator
[1:51:15 - 1:51:21] ▶
and you know there are nuclear fusion startups now which is you know controlled fusion is this holy grail of
[1:51:21 - 1:51:27] ▶
energy generation so so anyway that those are those were the kind of the highlights um it it wasn't a
[1:51:27 - 1:51:36] ▶
treasure trove of information and i wish it was because it would make the book a lot more interesting
[1:51:36 - 1:51:41] ▶
that's for sure but it was um these are just kind of the impressions that i got and it was a it was a
[1:51:41 - 1:51:48] ▶
a fascinating experience i can't really emphasize enough that it is something that our world is
[1:51:48 - 1:51:57] ▶
slowly coming to terms with i've actually been asked just recently to um be part of the um congressional
[1:51:58 - 1:52:05] ▶
you know uh testimony and all that stuff and there's a there's a certain project that's out they've
[1:52:05 - 1:52:12] ▶
they've labeled a project disclosure or something like that uh-huh we're slowly slowly getting to that
[1:52:12 - 1:52:19] ▶
point where the government is going to have to say something or give some some little tidbit of
[1:52:19 - 1:52:26] ▶
information to the world because you would think the the pressure is just yeah you just can't explain it
[1:52:26 - 1:52:31] ▶
away through campfire stories anymore uh i just want to get back to the core details of the spock thing
[1:52:31 - 1:52:37] ▶
so are you seeing a gray alien in your mind's eye okay no i never saw any visualization of of their
[1:52:37 - 1:52:46] ▶
what they look like so just just you're having semantic concepts kind of come into your your mind
[1:52:46 - 1:52:52] ▶
yeah tapestry i have the same stereotypical view of an alien that everybody else has yeah i don't have any
[1:52:52 - 1:52:59] ▶
um although when i see an alien like um you know a a fictional character or whatever i always um
[1:52:59 - 1:53:09] ▶
i always put i overlay my communications onto that so that it becomes a little bit more um
[1:53:10 - 1:53:18] ▶
important or not important but uh it has a different aspect to it when i look at an alien as opposed to
[1:53:19 - 1:53:25] ▶
as somebody else looks at an alien yeah i know i imagine it has a very different connotation like
[1:53:25 - 1:53:29] ▶
i know something like that is probably real yeah um did you have any sort of feeling towards spock did
[1:53:29 - 1:53:36] ▶
you develop a liking to him or were you like you know this is some no foreign weird thing that i'm you
[1:53:36 - 1:53:44] ▶
know it well i think it uh largely has to do with the fact that we never really became intimate as far as
[1:53:44 - 1:53:50] ▶
our conversations so you kind of it it might as well have just been the computer at the school as far
[1:53:50 - 1:53:56] ▶
as i was concerned right other than um the the the colorful um not colorful the the detail of the of
[1:53:56 - 1:54:07] ▶
what i was communicating through you know my tapestry so to speak um that was different i mean that was all
[1:54:07 - 1:54:14] ▶
new to me it i was able to tap into it easily because of my training but the training never i never saw that
[1:54:14 - 1:54:25] ▶
that um venue of communication until i actually got the communications from the aliens until then it was
[1:54:26 - 1:54:35] ▶
very it was very um um it was very clean it was um let's say what's the word uh sanit it was sanitized
[1:54:35 - 1:54:47] ▶
sanitized yeah it was very uh clean it's almost like you were like a human antenna or something yeah
[1:54:47 - 1:54:54] ▶
yeah or a conduit or yeah yeah i i kind of um look at it as like a it was chromatic that type of communication
[1:54:54 - 1:55:03] ▶
was chromatic whereas this was very organic and very colorful and very um um clear you know there was a lot
[1:55:03 - 1:55:12] ▶
of clarity to it was there anything special about the base where you were like maybe i'm being asked to
[1:55:12 - 1:55:19] ▶
do this project preserve destiny and communicate with aliens because this base is located in a particular
[1:55:19 - 1:55:24] ▶
place that's unique or has some equipment that might be good for alien communications or well
[1:55:24 - 1:55:30] ▶
um the project that i worked on i mean other than um project preserve destiny the black project was a
[1:55:30 - 1:55:39] ▶
very interesting into itself i mean that would be that would be a a podcast that anybody would love
[1:55:39 - 1:55:46] ▶
to hear because it was just so interesting um and it had to do with electromagnetic stuff but um
[1:55:46 - 1:55:54] ▶
interesting uh it was i don't i don't know if there would be any correlation between the two
[1:55:54 - 1:55:59] ▶
i mean other than just being the cover for it yeah because i think i don't know there are guys that
[1:56:00 - 1:56:06] ▶
come up in ufo lore like robert starbacher and he was actually i just we were talking about whitley
[1:56:06 - 1:56:12] ▶
streber before this started rolling and he was looking to whitley streber they were about to meet the day
[1:56:12 - 1:56:18] ▶
he died but he was this guy sarbacher ran r d under vannevar bush like he was basically vannevar bush's
[1:56:18 - 1:56:26] ▶
air he ran the whole washington you know uh national labs he was like an atomic energy kind of godfather in the united states
[1:56:26 - 1:56:33] ▶
and he in 1987 towards the end of his life started to come out and write letters to ufo researchers like this guy william steinman
[1:56:34 - 1:56:43] ▶
and say you know um the ufo rumors are substantially true vannevar bush was involved in this project as
[1:56:43 - 1:56:50] ▶
was john von neumann and all these things and he wrote a book called ultra high frequency engineering
[1:56:50 - 1:56:55] ▶
i wonder if his vector in the whole ufo thing was some sort of communication modality with the aliens
[1:56:55 - 1:57:03] ▶
that was maybe what was on that side of the electromagnetic spectrum what was the content of
[1:57:03 - 1:57:07] ▶
his book what did it what did it talk about you know it's chinese to me it's like extremely
[1:57:07 - 1:57:13] ▶
esoteric and talking about radio though yeah as far as waves electromagnetic energy is that what it was
[1:57:13 - 1:57:18] ▶
yeah i don't know what what what exact spectrum but i i i don't mean the spectrum i just mean it's about
[1:57:18 - 1:57:24] ▶
about electromagnetic energy yes yeah yeah yeah exactly well and but was it was it about um the
[1:57:24 - 1:57:33] ▶
government's involvement with it or just no it was just a general sort of textbook on it yeah yeah
[1:57:33 - 1:57:38] ▶
interesting i don't know did you at any point think that maybe this wasn't an alien on the
[1:57:38 - 1:57:46] ▶
other end of the communication you were just being told that because i do think this is the what makes
[1:57:46 - 1:57:51] ▶
this whole topic so tricky is that in certain cases the reverse dynamic of what you just of what
[1:57:51 - 1:57:57] ▶
we've been talking about this entire time sometimes you're not tagging a gray project with a black project
[1:57:57 - 1:58:04] ▶
but you're tagging a black project with a gray fake gray thing to catch spies you know it's this
[1:58:04 - 1:58:10] ▶
classic intelligence move say you had some like anti-gravity vehicle or whatever you'd call it alien
[1:58:10 - 1:58:16] ▶
and then you'd write a bunch of fake documents that you know talk about aliens or whatever
[1:58:16 - 1:58:20] ▶
interesting and then it would like you it'd be like putting like a die into a pipe and you'd see
[1:58:20 - 1:58:26] ▶
the communication trail and you'd catch soviet spies or you know you do also throw people off the
[1:58:26 - 1:58:32] ▶
trail or whatever maybe you'd initiate recruits because it would be sort of a puzzle for them to
[1:58:32 - 1:58:36] ▶
figure out so it would like serve all these purposes to actually call black stuff alien so
[1:58:36 - 1:58:41] ▶
did you ever think maybe i was actually i'm actually just communicating with you know in a way that
[1:58:41 - 1:58:47] ▶
breaks physics which is fascinating or the physics as we know it but humans through more mind matter
[1:58:47 - 1:58:54] ▶
parapsychological means now we have like the telepathy tapes it's one of the most popular podcasts in the
[1:58:54 - 1:59:00] ▶
u.s uh earlier this year yeah you're probably familiar i i heard the name yeah talks about these like
[1:59:00 - 1:59:07] ▶
uh non-verbal often autistic children uh who you know can telepathically communicate and commune on
[1:59:07 - 1:59:14] ▶
this sort of hill it's absolutely fascinating sort of send each other images um at really high accuracy
[1:59:14 - 1:59:20] ▶
rates and so did you ever think maybe you were part of a human parapsychology program and they were
[1:59:20 - 1:59:28] ▶
tagging it with the alien thing um i gave that some thought um especially when i was writing the
[1:59:28 - 1:59:33] ▶
book i i wanted to kind of flesh out my my thoughts on on um how it how it was um how it would be
[1:59:33 - 1:59:44] ▶
interpreted into the public you know and and what people would ascribe to my experience and how they
[1:59:44 - 1:59:53] ▶
would uh try to block or try to get it off what i thought and go into other other areas and so i did
[1:59:53 - 2:00:02] ▶
think of that and i i guess it's possible you know it's it's not impossible obviously because i never saw
[2:00:02 - 2:00:10] ▶
an alien i never even visually i never saw an alien and never got any indicator as to what um they were
[2:00:11 - 2:00:19] ▶
a human or not um but i i can say that the the way the communications happened unless um unless we've
[2:00:19 - 2:00:31] ▶
we've somehow gained the ability to do that in some way the the style of communication was very foreign
[2:00:31 - 2:00:40] ▶
to how our minds think yeah so maybe on this plane even if you have two humans that is kind of the
[2:00:40 - 2:00:47] ▶
standard by which you would communicate in that in that way even between you two humans but i i got
[2:00:47 - 2:00:53] ▶
this distinct um impression that it was not a human yeah but you're also talking about strings of numbers
[2:00:53 - 2:01:01] ▶
and like it does feel foreign the way it's being communicated doesn't feel like it's interesting i mean
[2:01:01 - 2:01:08] ▶
there are non-verbal tribes indigenous tribes that talk about the ancient language where they are able to
[2:01:09 - 2:01:14] ▶
kind of communicate telepathically with each other and there are people with mind melds going on you
[2:01:14 - 2:01:21] ▶
know like couples over long periods of time and that sort of thing twins i mean they're the classic
[2:01:21 - 2:01:27] ▶
example um and so this felt like a different variety yeah but the communications i would think anyway
[2:01:27 - 2:01:35] ▶
the communications in that way would still be human type of communications because we think that's what i'm
[2:01:35 - 2:01:41] ▶
saying this felt qualitatively different yeah yeah as far as what was coming in yeah and i and i can't
[2:01:41 - 2:01:47] ▶
and i can't really um attribute it to or can't compare it to anything else yeah that i could vocalize to
[2:01:47 - 2:01:54] ▶
you it's just completely different yeah yeah yeah i mean there are theoretical way like have you heard of bone
[2:01:54 - 2:01:59] ▶
induction do you know what that is well i've seen those speakers you know that you can put around your your neck or whatever and they had the bone induction
[2:01:59 - 2:02:07] ▶
exactly you can hear sound classic example is beethoven was deaf and so like he would uh actually
[2:02:07 - 2:02:15] ▶
uh bite onto a conductive rod that was connected with his piano and he would play notes and then he
[2:02:15 - 2:02:22] ▶
would hear it because it would bypass his ear canal and so there are ways to communicate semantic
[2:02:22 - 2:02:29] ▶
information that bypass the traditional kind of auditory track and actually the director of the nsa
[2:02:29 - 2:02:36] ▶
while you were in your program was this guy bobby ray inman who's on refer record talking about ufos
[2:02:36 - 2:02:42] ▶
with this ufo researcher named bob oxler i don't know if you know about this on a phone call do you uh
[2:02:42 - 2:02:48] ▶
anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever be uh become available for uh technological research
[2:02:49 - 2:02:58] ▶
uh outside of the uh military circles again i honestly don't know uh uh 10 years ago the answer would
[2:02:58 - 2:03:05] ▶
have been no yeah uh whether as time has evolved they're beginning to become more open on it there's
[2:03:05 - 2:03:10] ▶
a possibility he then goes on to you know work at saic it's this you know big military contractor that
[2:03:10 - 2:03:18] ▶
you know made tons of money during star wars and you know strategic defense initiative and then they
[2:03:18 - 2:03:23] ▶
got into psych psychotronic research and psychotronic weaponry and stuff and so it's always this
[2:03:23 - 2:03:28] ▶
question for me is like what came first is it the alien stuff or is it the weird mk ultra like kind of
[2:03:28 - 2:03:34] ▶
you know like embedded implant sort of you know communication stuff and i you know it's funny i i
[2:03:34 - 2:03:40] ▶
definitely don't shake out that old human technology explains all of this stuff like i think your story
[2:03:40 - 2:03:46] ▶
is like a great example of that but it's such an interesting history yeah so i don't i i just back to your
[2:03:46 - 2:03:52] ▶
original question i think that um i'm pretty convinced it was alien yeah but there's no way
[2:03:52 - 2:03:58] ▶
that i could prove it in court yeah well no that's an intellectually honest uh you know readout and i
[2:03:58 - 2:04:03] ▶
appreciate that and you know it's i think it's extremely fascinating either way but i that's true i
[2:04:03 - 2:04:09] ▶
mean even if it were two humans it would still be fascinating still breaking paradigm physics and and also
[2:04:09 - 2:04:15] ▶
a totally you know new area for the nsa nobody thinks they're involved with but i uh i you know
[2:04:15 - 2:04:22] ▶
after reading your book going through all your stuff watching all your interviews i i also think it's
[2:04:22 - 2:04:26] ▶
genuinely alien but um okay so uh that was the first space uh you're gonna take a sip of water
[2:04:26 - 2:04:32] ▶
and we can yeah we can do it on camera too yeah yeah that's true yeah we could always yeah be
[2:04:32 - 2:04:37] ▶
at least we don't have the cigars like uh rogan yeah yeah yeah are you a fan of his yeah yeah he's
[2:04:40 - 2:04:47] ▶
he's um interesting i've been a fan of his as a comedian too i mean yeah his comedy is epic yeah
[2:04:47 - 2:04:54] ▶
he's he's amazing i think he's so cool i think he's such a good good guy he's so genuinely curious
[2:04:54 - 2:04:59] ▶
and all this stuff yeah oh yeah definitely he's a curious mind i love that i love when people are
[2:04:59 - 2:05:03] ▶
curious yes and not um semantic and wrote and you know just within your own box yeah i want to look out
[2:05:03 - 2:05:12] ▶
other things it's good i think it's fear it's like in you if you can't integrate something with
[2:05:12 - 2:05:19] ▶
your world view you have this like immune reaction oh yeah you just you don't want to look at it or
[2:05:19 - 2:05:23] ▶
we're going through that yeah yeah yeah i'm sure you sometimes get that it's funny like sometimes i'm
[2:05:23 - 2:05:29] ▶
like yeah i run a podcast on ufos and people are like oh cool and they like move on and start talking
[2:05:29 - 2:05:33] ▶
about the weather or something i'm sure usually like maybe you occasionally tell people yeah i was
[2:05:33 - 2:05:38] ▶
you know recruited uh by the nsa to decode alien signals oh cool yeah what's um what are you doing
[2:05:38 - 2:05:44] ▶
after this yeah like do you ever get that reaction oh definitely where it's like not even like they're
[2:05:44 - 2:05:49] ▶
not even capable of like holding it in their world view i i um but i have the opposite effect really in
[2:05:49 - 2:05:55] ▶
that i mean for me anyway i don't really want to talk about it so because because it makes people
[2:05:55 - 2:06:02] ▶
uncomfortable i believe that so it's like i'll say well once i get to know somebody i won't say it
[2:06:02 - 2:06:08] ▶
initially but you know if they start we can know each other and i'll say yeah and i i um i don't know
[2:06:08 - 2:06:15] ▶
if you know but i wrote a book and and they go oh really what is it you know and i'll say i'll say
[2:06:15 - 2:06:20] ▶
the name of it i say it's on amazon you can you know above black yeah search for it and and um and then
[2:06:20 - 2:06:26] ▶
i wait for them to come back yeah to come back and if they just never mention it again i'm like
[2:06:26 - 2:06:33] ▶
cool yeah i'm good yeah yeah yeah but you know if they have a genuine curiosity then i'm open to
[2:06:33 - 2:06:39] ▶
that too no it's a great filtering yeah yeah that's because just saying it in to people and springing
[2:06:39 - 2:06:46] ▶
it on them yeah i communicated with aliens they're going okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no i get
[2:06:46 - 2:06:56] ▶
it's like you you also i mean are refreshingly non-historyonic in your personality like it i
[2:06:56 - 2:07:02] ▶
don't doesn't feel like you have some like you know desire for attention you have the you have the
[2:07:02 - 2:07:07] ▶
certain segment and i'm sure you're familiar with it yes of this of this world that is very i mean i
[2:07:07 - 2:07:14] ▶
went to um conferences when i when i first released the book i would be invited to all kinds of conferences
[2:07:14 - 2:07:19] ▶
yeah yeah yeah ufo conferences and alien conferences and and holy moly the people
[2:07:19 - 2:07:25] ▶
that i would interface with yeah i mean it was often it's extreme narcissism too it's like this
[2:07:25 - 2:07:33] ▶
solipsistic like i am a starseed i was sent here from art tourists and i am going to enlighten everybody
[2:07:33 - 2:07:41] ▶
and it's like come on like you really you really you're it is you're the messiah like it's great it's
[2:07:41 - 2:07:47] ▶
crazy i one conference i went to one time um it had a a bunch of like uh i don't know alternative
[2:07:47 - 2:07:55] ▶
stuff going on um experiences and things and one guy had the uh stigmata uh-huh you know you're
[2:07:55 - 2:08:04] ▶
you're familiar with that oh yeah that stuff and he had an open wound like right in the middle of his
[2:08:04 - 2:08:10] ▶
forehead like you know bleeding uh-huh and he would uncover it because we were at a convention of
[2:08:10 - 2:08:17] ▶
things that you know people came here to see so he would uncover it for people but he usually kept it
[2:08:17 - 2:08:22] ▶
covered i i don't even know what to do he did that to himself there's no way yeah i'm yeah i'm i'm
[2:08:22 - 2:08:31] ▶
and then i think you know that's a story my story is in amongst all this i'm like chance do i have i mean
[2:08:31 - 2:08:38] ▶
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[2:08:38 - 2:08:44] ▶
well i think the stigmata guy you know is trying to compete against people like you who are just like
[2:08:47 - 2:08:53] ▶
i don't remember fully what happened but this is what i think happened and you know uh but you know
[2:08:53 - 2:08:58] ▶
the core details are very verifiable and uh well it's it's kind of why i kind of left the scene
[2:08:58 - 2:09:04] ▶
mm-hmm because i really i mean my story is my story yeah i read in the book and that's it i mean
[2:09:04 - 2:09:10] ▶
i'm not i'm not trying to you know become a star i'm not trying to get us become a celebrity at this
[2:09:10 - 2:09:17] ▶
i just put out my story for people to gel with whatever their stories are and yes it's a piece of
[2:09:17 - 2:09:23] ▶
the puzzle and that's all i'm good for i mean i don't need to just let me hide over here in the
[2:09:23 - 2:09:29] ▶
corner somewhere yeah yeah yeah and i get you know i get i get pinged on twitter all the time and and
[2:09:29 - 2:09:35] ▶
and it's i i don't know what to say yeah yeah i'm like can i call you and like oh really can you ask
[2:09:36 - 2:09:43] ▶
my question ask question via text because i've talked to dozens of people and it's just
[2:09:43 - 2:09:50] ▶
i wrote it in the book yeah i i don't what else do you need to know so the the i love this this
[2:09:50 - 2:09:58] ▶
format here yeah because we can talk about other things like stigmata yeah and kind of put color to
[2:09:58 - 2:10:04] ▶
it and but for the most part i just don't need to talk about this anymore because there's plenty of
[2:10:04 - 2:10:09] ▶
other people talking about it it's in the book and well i'm honored you said yes to me why did you say
[2:10:09 - 2:10:15] ▶
yes to me well um you have a good charm over texts very good charm and now in person the same so that's
[2:10:15 - 2:10:23] ▶
good um i just i wanted it to be i wanted to be a a clearinghouse so to speak or whatever i have to
[2:10:23 - 2:10:33] ▶
say vocally to people yeah about the book we're probably i would assume going to cover pretty much
[2:10:33 - 2:10:39] ▶
the entire thing yes and and so it's out there and at my age you know i want to get it at the point
[2:10:39 - 2:10:46] ▶
where i'm still you know smiling and thinking clearly and all that stuff um and and then i just
[2:10:46 - 2:10:53] ▶
want to let it let it go into the ether and and it's well researched well documented well talked you
[2:10:53 - 2:11:01] ▶
know and it doesn't really need to be um beaten yeah like a dead horse well i i'm honored you said yes
[2:11:01 - 2:11:09] ▶
and i i do think we're gonna package something in a way that you know right right now it's uh it is
[2:11:09 - 2:11:16] ▶
these really structured we were talking about this earlier like kind of you know baby boomer kind of
[2:11:16 - 2:11:21] ▶
legacy media like so this happened and then this happened and then yeah well and it's a question and
[2:11:21 - 2:11:26] ▶
answer um yeah all the the the interviews that i've had up to this point were not podcasts before
[2:11:26 - 2:11:32] ▶
podcasts were easier yeah thing so it was very my last one was in florida and it was he was
[2:11:32 - 2:11:39] ▶
very nice very nice crew just like your crew very nice people but but it was very structured it was
[2:11:39 - 2:11:44] ▶
very yeah question and then answer question and answer and and it was very heavily edited you know
[2:11:44 - 2:11:51] ▶
for time and all that so i just came across as very um you you couldn't see me yeah well that
[2:11:51 - 2:11:59] ▶
that begets skepticism now like when you see the like the even the late night talk shows or like the
[2:11:59 - 2:12:06] ▶
you know the the prime time broadcasts or whatever and it's this like very like done up you know
[2:12:06 - 2:12:13] ▶
manicured like like you know set thing where it's like the producers were in touch with the guests
[2:12:13 - 2:12:18] ▶
prior clearly we're gonna go over this go over all these things like it's funny you should ask that
[2:12:18 - 2:12:22] ▶
well i was on vacation with my family or whatever it's like what are you it's so weird yeah and then you
[2:12:22 - 2:12:26] ▶
have honestly rogan's the biggest innovator og og him and like mark marin and stuff where it's just
[2:12:26 - 2:12:33] ▶
was fully just off the cuff and you get a sense for you're this voyeur looking into a conversation
[2:12:34 - 2:12:41] ▶
that's happening super organically and naturally yeah and you can suss out what's you know real and
[2:12:41 - 2:12:46] ▶
what's fake and yeah personalities have a lot to do with people's um um authenticity yes totally well i'm you
[2:12:46 - 2:12:55] ▶
know i'm i'm happy because i i watched all your interviews and i was like this guy seems very
[2:12:55 - 2:13:00] ▶
sane and you seem even more sane in person so great to see my stigmata yeah yeah yeah exactly well you
[2:13:00 - 2:13:07] ▶
know it's something funny you were saying that you know this guy who's probably crazy and might be
[2:13:07 - 2:13:12] ▶
a hemophiliac if his wound was open this entire conference uh was uh you know saying that that he you
[2:13:12 - 2:13:18] ▶
know had a stigmata uh you know one of the first guys to receive uh stigmata was saint francis of
[2:13:18 - 2:13:24] ▶
assisi post jesus this is i think 13th century italy on mount laverne and there's this religious
[2:13:24 - 2:13:32] ▶
studies professor named diana pisalka and she basically says if you look at the original translation
[2:13:32 - 2:13:38] ▶
of what happened to saint francis it was probably just an interaction with a ufo and he it received sort
[2:13:38 - 2:13:45] ▶
of electromagnetic you know damage look at you bringing stigmata back to my story that's what i'm
[2:13:45 - 2:13:51] ▶
saying what a host yeah you know we do we can't that's awesome yeah okay so we're midway through the
[2:13:51 - 2:14:01] ▶
story so we talked about project preserve destiny base one which was overseas somewhere there was a
[2:14:01 - 2:14:08] ▶
second base is that right uh-huh so you you leave base one are you just like back into your normal air
[2:14:08 - 2:14:13] ▶
force electronics intelligence job or what do you yeah all of it's under the auspices of that okay um
[2:14:13 - 2:14:20] ▶
and then i get i get orders that base is actually i i close that base down um the base itself closed
[2:14:21 - 2:14:28] ▶
the entire base not just our aspect of it okay so um i went to my next base and um same thing got
[2:14:28 - 2:14:39] ▶
you know read in as far as security clearances and for that place it took like i don't know 30 days
[2:14:39 - 2:14:47] ▶
for my security clearances to come in so i had no job it was like i was just free to do whatever i
[2:14:47 - 2:14:52] ▶
wanted to do yeah just hanging out actually a funny story i you're supposed to stay within the area you
[2:14:52 - 2:15:01] ▶
know because if they call you you have to get there when they tell you to get there and i took a chance and
[2:15:01 - 2:15:08] ▶
i drove just about to say the state but i won't um i drove to a friend's house it was about a uh
[2:15:08 - 2:15:18] ▶
four hour drive something like that four or five hours and they called me when i got there they called
[2:15:19 - 2:15:27] ▶
me in and say you need to be here at eight o'clock in the morning and i was like oh my gosh i got to get
[2:15:27 - 2:15:35] ▶
back and it was a blizzard there was a blizzard the entire way home and i almost didn't make it back
[2:15:35 - 2:15:42] ▶
because of the blizzard and so um the the moral of that story is uh do what they tell you to do and
[2:15:42 - 2:15:48] ▶
stay in the local area when you have a 30 day uh hiatus anyway yes i so my clarence's got um is finally
[2:15:48 - 2:15:57] ▶
there and i got um for that one i went into my job and i was working my regular job and the introduction
[2:15:57 - 2:16:07] ▶
happened by the previous captain actually showing up at my job in on the floor where i was working
[2:16:07 - 2:16:15] ▶
and i was like oh hey cat what's up i didn't even know you were in the states i i didn't know where he
[2:16:16 - 2:16:22] ▶
went from from where we were before and so you know we kind of had a nice friendly back and forth and
[2:16:22 - 2:16:30] ▶
so this is the guy pseudonymously named captain white or uh yeah whoever was the captain i i i can't
[2:16:30 - 2:16:36] ▶
remember the names now but the the captain at the first base yeah okay it was my former contact he was
[2:16:36 - 2:16:42] ▶
he was relaying to me my next contact who was a captain and at station at that base and um and so they were
[2:16:43 - 2:16:52] ▶
together and so i got a an in-person interaction this time as opposed to over the phone or whatever
[2:16:52 - 2:16:58] ▶
and then he took me over to the computer screen and i had already i had already looked it up i'd
[2:16:59 - 2:17:05] ▶
already done the thing and i saw that it was there so he didn't really even have to tell me but um but
[2:17:05 - 2:17:10] ▶
i knew who my contact was now so that was the most important thing and same thing you go to this sort
[2:17:10 - 2:17:17] ▶
of workstation terminal is it in a van this time no no this was in a big room okay big air
[2:17:17 - 2:17:22] ▶
conditioned room it was um uh this was oh the previous base was very small we had like
[2:17:22 - 2:17:29] ▶
25 50 people something like that in our detachment very everybody knew one another it was very
[2:17:30 - 2:17:36] ▶
small knit or close knit um but the next base it was a very big base very big uh detachment um uh we had
[2:17:36 - 2:17:46] ▶
a multi-service air force navy marines everybody was there in the same building um so it was a big room
[2:17:46 - 2:17:54] ▶
uh but i wasn't as close to the people around me either so i had a little bit more space to do my thing
[2:17:54 - 2:18:01] ▶
um so nobody was hovering over me or right next to me or whatever and uh that took a couple maybe a couple
[2:18:01 - 2:18:10] ▶
months before i started receiving uh maybe not that long after i got briefed or into you know my
[2:18:10 - 2:18:17] ▶
security clearances and i started doing my job um i started to receive communications again prepare for
[2:18:17 - 2:18:23] ▶
communications like oh okay well here we go i'm at work let's go started to um translate those and
[2:18:23 - 2:18:32] ▶
the same thing you know just same variety as the first well no actually the communication has changed
[2:18:32 - 2:18:40] ▶
themselves but i'm just saying that the whole process i every once in a while i just get to
[2:18:40 - 2:18:45] ▶
get a communication just like i did at the previous space and you're just sitting at your workstation
[2:18:45 - 2:18:49] ▶
sometimes i was yeah sometimes i was in the bathroom i mean i could be anywhere in the building
[2:18:49 - 2:18:54] ▶
you'd receive communications wherever yeah it but i was always in the building so you'd always be in the
[2:18:54 - 2:18:59] ▶
building and then you'd go to the workstation and yeah they type it whoever was overseeing this whole
[2:18:59 - 2:19:06] ▶
thing they knew where i was kind of location wise i was at work so they knew my shift so once you
[2:19:06 - 2:19:12] ▶
received some sort of message you'd go to the the monitor and you'd type in slash and you'd type in
[2:19:12 - 2:19:18] ▶
whatever messages you're seeing and 118 then the five digit code but the rest of the communication
[2:19:18 - 2:19:24] ▶
there was a lot of a lot of this one this marked a time when i became much more um it became much
[2:19:24 - 2:19:32] ▶
more detailed the communications were much more detailed how so what were they like very like
[2:19:32 - 2:19:36] ▶
pictures images yeah these communications they were they were much more uh colorful um i think uh also you
[2:19:36 - 2:19:45] ▶
could get a kind of a a sense of an emotion with the images so it wasn't you know like when you watch
[2:19:45 - 2:19:56] ▶
a movie and you see somebody crying or you see right you can get emotion through visual and not just
[2:19:56 - 2:20:03] ▶
auditory not you know uh seeing i mean um hearing um but you know like words and stuff but you can see
[2:20:03 - 2:20:12] ▶
and these and these and these images that i saw they didn't have words to them i saw images but no
[2:20:12 - 2:20:17] ▶
words but i i felt emotion i could feel emotion with the image um not necessarily all the time but if it
[2:20:17 - 2:20:24] ▶
meant to have emotion then i could feel emotion um now whether that was conveyed with the message
[2:20:24 - 2:20:33] ▶
or whether i had emotion looking at the visual i don't i can't really you know suss that as far
[2:20:33 - 2:20:41] ▶
as which uh which was the generator of it the image or me but i did feel emotion with some of the images
[2:20:41 - 2:20:50] ▶
um so it was very much more colorful um do you remember any of the specifics of what was coming
[2:20:50 - 2:20:56] ▶
through oh like the example the rocket that was one of the ones that i got that was a visual um
[2:20:56 - 2:21:03] ▶
um um because you also you also experienced a rocket failure in base one as well no i think that
[2:21:03 - 2:21:12] ▶
the visuals were at the base two two not base one that's so interesting that it's like rockets
[2:21:12 - 2:21:17] ▶
specifically because if you were well that's what i remembered there's a lot of others sure like scenes
[2:21:17 - 2:21:23] ▶
at a grocery store like random things okay um i saw some troop movements before i saw like uh uh jeeps and
[2:21:23 - 2:21:35] ▶
and um two and a half ton deuces or whatever they're called the the big truck carrying trucks um
[2:21:35 - 2:21:43] ▶
marching you know troop marching um i saw um
[2:21:44 - 2:21:49] ▶
some nature stuff like in the forest uh animals things like that did they feel like things of
[2:21:55 - 2:22:02] ▶
particular strategic importance or like were they just random well no i i really honestly believe the
[2:22:02 - 2:22:09] ▶
entire process or the the the entire time that i was doing this was all testing it wasn't it wasn't
[2:22:09 - 2:22:16] ▶
didn't have any functionality to it was this alien being that you're now speaking to the same as spock
[2:22:16 - 2:22:22] ▶
was it different no this was a different one um i only know that based on the the uh the quality of
[2:22:22 - 2:22:29] ▶
the communication because it i would i could say that if i were talking to you on the phone and and then
[2:22:29 - 2:22:36] ▶
you put you know somebody else on the phone like a lady i could tell that that was two people sure even
[2:22:36 - 2:22:42] ▶
another guy i could tell those two people and that in the same way with this communication you can you
[2:22:42 - 2:22:47] ▶
can definitely tell that the communication is different it has a different flavor different
[2:22:47 - 2:22:51] ▶
um substance to it subs um like the tapestry analogy that i meant it's a different type of tapestry so
[2:22:51 - 2:22:59] ▶
i think every i would assume when you're comm when i'm communicating with them i have a certain
[2:22:59 - 2:23:05] ▶
tapestry that they're tapping into did you have a nickname for this alien yes i did what was that um well i
[2:23:05 - 2:23:12] ▶
started on the the star trek theme so i just continued it with bones and and i only said bones
[2:23:12 - 2:23:18] ▶
because i thought it was just a funny era i used that because it was funny but there was no really
[2:23:18 - 2:23:23] ▶
correlation with the first one there was a correlation because he was logical and so i was like oh that's
[2:23:23 - 2:23:27] ▶
cool let's let's name him spock but the second one was just a continuation of the the naming did you
[2:23:27 - 2:23:34] ▶
ever try to ask bones or spock personal questions like where do you come well yeah for bones i became
[2:23:34 - 2:23:41] ▶
more adept at doing that because i had just discovered this new plane with with uh um with
[2:23:41 - 2:23:48] ▶
spock but then i left soon after we shut down that that communications there because the base base was
[2:23:48 - 2:23:56] ▶
closing and the c van was being uh closed up and you know um packed up and all that so um i wasn't able
[2:23:56 - 2:24:04] ▶
to do anymore with spock but bones i continued that theme because i almost in almost immediately
[2:24:04 - 2:24:11] ▶
i tried that new plane that was telling you about the the closer one and he was also fairly um i
[2:24:11 - 2:24:20] ▶
wouldn't say shocked but he was inquisitive about like really you could do that that's interesting and
[2:24:20 - 2:24:26] ▶
and so we used that or i used it to and i don't think i needed to looking back at it i could have just
[2:24:26 - 2:24:35] ▶
used the regular um tapestry or plane or whatever you want to call it um but i kind of associated this
[2:24:35 - 2:24:44] ▶
in my mind i associated that other one the closer one with a more informal communication so that's what
[2:24:44 - 2:24:50] ▶
i would always use for my questions and so i had questions for bones and i think that a lot of the ones
[2:24:50 - 2:24:58] ▶
that we went over already are the ones that came from bones but well you you also i think
[2:24:58 - 2:25:02] ▶
asked both bones and spock is it okay that we're communicating like this from the perspective of
[2:25:03 - 2:25:09] ▶
this national security program that you're involved with and i think they both said the same thing
[2:25:09 - 2:25:14] ▶
yeah is that right they did what did they both say they they said it it's there's no i can't remember
[2:25:14 - 2:25:20] ▶
the exact um but he basically said that there's no problem i mean it's not a big deal yeah yeah it's
[2:25:20 - 2:25:27] ▶
communicating is communicating and i think they both almost express uh they're like we don't quite know
[2:25:28 - 2:25:33] ▶
what the you know exact protocols are of your like human program so it's cool with us like it doesn't
[2:25:33 - 2:25:40] ▶
matter for you know from our perspective it seemed like they were kind of like uh uh on the same track
[2:25:40 - 2:25:46] ▶
as i was like um they're just being doing what they're being told too right right you know kind of
[2:25:46 - 2:25:51] ▶
like maybe they have officers on the alien side and they're like they have need to know and they don't
[2:25:51 - 2:25:56] ▶
really have they have a limited information set and they're just channeling now they did they did um
[2:25:56 - 2:26:00] ▶
shut down communications a lot when i when i tried to ask things that they didn't want to answer yeah
[2:26:01 - 2:26:06] ▶
they would just shut down um but but i didn't get the sense that there was a certain way that things
[2:26:06 - 2:26:13] ▶
needed to happen they were i think they were more interested in the testing of my ability to
[2:26:13 - 2:26:18] ▶
communicate yeah then they were necessarily the content now of course i i'm sure they had off
[2:26:18 - 2:26:25] ▶
limit types of subjects that they couldn't talk about but um for the most part when when i did ask
[2:26:26 - 2:26:32] ▶
a question they would give some sort of an answer at least or shut down yeah or it's they seem like
[2:26:32 - 2:26:39] ▶
kind of coy and like you know give you some high level like riddle or something well i don't think they
[2:26:39 - 2:26:45] ▶
tried to riddle it's just that my feeble brain sure it became a riddle because of my feeble brain well
[2:26:45 - 2:26:52] ▶
it's like if you live in some timeless dimension or something you're trying to describe that to somebody
[2:26:52 - 2:26:56] ▶
like the words literally will fail on you as well so what did bones say about religion when you asked
[2:26:56 - 2:27:02] ▶
uh well i got the impression that we were um he mentioned that the that we are part of the same
[2:27:02 - 2:27:10] ▶
creation in other words we're part of the same fabric of existence as the aliens yeah okay yeah
[2:27:10 - 2:27:17] ▶
we're all we're all part of it um he didn't necessarily say they have a soul but he said that
[2:27:17 - 2:27:23] ▶
that um he he implied we have a soul he said that there are two intel there are two creations
[2:27:23 - 2:27:30] ▶
intelligent and non-intelligent and like plants were part of the non-intelligent and we and them were
[2:27:30 - 2:27:37] ▶
part of the intelligent creation and that if you have intelligence then you have what i interpreted
[2:27:37 - 2:27:44] ▶
when when i heard it was a soul now he might have meant something else but this internal agency or
[2:27:44 - 2:27:51] ▶
internal knowing that i think that that's probably a better way of knowing it and i think i ascribe
[2:27:51 - 2:27:58] ▶
because at the time i was religious i i had a religious belief so to speak um so i think i pushed
[2:27:58 - 2:28:06] ▶
soul into that that round hole yeah um now that i look back on it it didn't necessarily mean soul but
[2:28:06 - 2:28:17] ▶
it meant a sort of a a self-agency a self-awareness did you ever ask any questions about yourself like
[2:28:17 - 2:28:24] ▶
how was i genetically manipulated or why or okay i um if i did i don't remember it because i i didn't get
[2:28:24 - 2:28:32] ▶
an answer i don't think because i i don't remember anything like that did you ever ask them how long
[2:28:32 - 2:28:37] ▶
they've been visiting humanity yes um i i tried to address that several times um my impression was
[2:28:37 - 2:28:44] ▶
that they've been here for a very long time um and that they've they've intersected with humanity
[2:28:44 - 2:28:51] ▶
at different times and he did mention also that um it became much more difficult once our civilization
[2:28:51 - 2:28:59] ▶
had advanced because it was the the levels of communication between civilizations and stuff
[2:28:59 - 2:29:05] ▶
it was harder to keep um their um autonomy or their their distance so to speak from when they
[2:29:05 - 2:29:15] ▶
wanted the distance it was harder to do that when other societies were talking about each other this
[2:29:15 - 2:29:21] ▶
was my impression they didn't exactly say it that way but that's what i i got the impression of did they
[2:29:21 - 2:29:26] ▶
talk about any sort of interbreeding between humans and aliens i got the impression that they had
[2:29:26 - 2:29:31] ▶
interbreded before um experimentally i i'm not that that doesn't necessarily mean that it was still
[2:29:31 - 2:29:38] ▶
or that we still have the results of that so to speak on earth but um he he did mention that um
[2:29:38 - 2:29:47] ▶
they had experimented with that in the past did you ask are you the only alien race are there others
[2:29:48 - 2:29:53] ▶
yeah um thank you for reminding me of that uh yes um he said there were a lot like um i got the
[2:29:53 - 2:30:06] ▶
impression that it was a silly question like like of course there's there's more speed this entire
[2:30:06 - 2:30:13] ▶
universe and you think we're the only two yeah so i got that impression did you ask if they have genders
[2:30:13 - 2:30:21] ▶
you know in their race or their lifespans were um they do have female and male they have a different
[2:30:21 - 2:30:29] ▶
um they don't they don't procreate exactly like we do um but they do have a a dual a dual sex type of
[2:30:29 - 2:30:39] ▶
um situation and um and yes they he said they do eliminate waste
[2:30:39 - 2:30:47] ▶
um and i i sensed a little bit of a humor with that yeah which was funny because here's two
[2:30:47 - 2:30:55] ▶
different species and you talk about waste and you get humor yeah in both cases which is that's
[2:30:55 - 2:31:00] ▶
fascinating yeah and but i never felt i never felt a a sense of like um doubled over laughing type of
[2:31:00 - 2:31:08] ▶
yeah but i could sense that it was a a lighter topic like uh oh interesting yeah um when you when you
[2:31:08 - 2:31:17] ▶
talk about like missiles or you know you get an imagery of missiles or something like that it has
[2:31:17 - 2:31:22] ▶
a it has a a certain um framework or emotion to it and then when you talk about stuff like that it
[2:31:22 - 2:31:31] ▶
has a different framework or emotion to it so yeah i sense humor it's funny i just interviewed this uh
[2:31:31 - 2:31:37] ▶
whistleblower named charles hall who claimed to live with hall white aliens while stationed at area 51
[2:31:37 - 2:31:43] ▶
for two and a half years and he claims that they lived with them lived with wow yeah and he yeah
[2:31:43 - 2:31:49] ▶
like like interactions across you know you know days at a time over in a two and a half year period where
[2:31:49 - 2:31:56] ▶
he interacts with family groups you know the some of the kids and the father and the and he has names
[2:31:56 - 2:32:03] ▶
for them he calls one of them a good friend that's what he calls one the teacher he calls one um something
[2:32:03 - 2:32:09] ▶
hairy it's wild um anybody he says that the ufos have bathrooms on them in the back of that craft
[2:32:09 - 2:32:17] ▶
was a restroom in the back of all the all those people are extra or real physical biological entities
[2:32:17 - 2:32:26] ▶
they all have to eat they all have to breathe air drink water and they all have to periodically go
[2:32:27 - 2:32:33] ▶
to the restroom so i don't know um well i mean it stands to reason i mean we're organisms and sure
[2:32:33 - 2:32:43] ▶
organisms have to eliminate yeah speaking of ufos did you ask about their mode of travel at all yeah the
[2:32:43 - 2:32:49] ▶
um it had to do with electromagnetic energy and and time um uh i think the i can't remember what it's called
[2:32:49 - 2:33:01] ▶
now the where that there's a scientist that came up with this concept of of um um pulling the ship
[2:33:01 - 2:33:13] ▶
as opposed to pushing the ship yeah sure the al cubi area yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah over the years
[2:33:13 - 2:33:19] ▶
after my communication i i came to think that that was a very very close proximity to what he was
[2:33:19 - 2:33:26] ▶
talking about you're surfing kind of a space-time wave yeah yeah you you create a void in front of
[2:33:26 - 2:33:30] ▶
you and you fall into that void and you keep creating the void yes bob lazar also says similar
[2:33:30 - 2:33:36] ▶
stuff to that i really think that was what he was with what they were trying to i mean they never
[2:33:36 - 2:33:43] ▶
really got into details but they used um uh a manipulation of electromagnetic energy probably
[2:33:43 - 2:33:52] ▶
something that we don't really understand at this point did they have anything to say about the
[2:33:52 - 2:33:56] ▶
nature of human beings or what what we are he always referred to us as water vessels or water beings
[2:33:56 - 2:34:02] ▶
water humans um there was always a water aspect of it and i think it's because they were probably not as
[2:34:02 - 2:34:09] ▶
they aren't made up as as of a much of as much water as we are that's what i gathered i guess we are like
[2:34:10 - 2:34:16] ▶
80 percent water yeah yeah water is conductive and yeah so it it was just an interesting i mean it
[2:34:16 - 2:34:23] ▶
wasn't something that we focused on it was just in in reference he would say that's that's how he
[2:34:23 - 2:34:29] ▶
referred to as humans water beings water beings it's fascinating did you get into project preserve
[2:34:29 - 2:34:36] ▶
destiny and whether it was uh you didn't ask them any questions well i did but i never really got any
[2:34:36 - 2:34:42] ▶
answers on any of that did you ask whether it was international or just well
[2:34:42 - 2:34:46] ▶
yeah we did um he did say that it was more than one country okay yeah that that was um
[2:34:46 - 2:34:54] ▶
maybe not necessarily involved with ppd but that but that was involved with their involvement with
[2:34:54 - 2:35:02] ▶
earth so to speak did you receive any messages about alien abductions or alien activity well that was
[2:35:02 - 2:35:08] ▶
okay so towards the end of my my stay with this project i started to receive stuff that indicated
[2:35:08 - 2:35:16] ▶
that it was um abductions and that's where i started to feel um like an accessory you know
[2:35:16 - 2:35:26] ▶
accessory to the crime so to speak and who knows whether that was a crime or not i mean i don't know
[2:35:26 - 2:35:31] ▶
i don't know in retrospect i don't know whether they were abducting for humanitarian reasons who
[2:35:32 - 2:35:39] ▶
knows you know maybe maybe upgrade our conscious yeah yeah yeah or increase our ability to um know
[2:35:39 - 2:35:46] ▶
about the body and and and work with it and heal it and there could be so many different reasons why
[2:35:46 - 2:35:53] ▶
but why surreptitiously why not tell the the public about what's going on so at the time and of course i
[2:35:53 - 2:36:01] ▶
was going through a stage in my life too also where i didn't want to be isolated anymore yeah i was in a
[2:36:01 - 2:36:08] ▶
prime age where you know you're dating and how old were you um when i got out i was uh around that time i
[2:36:08 - 2:36:17] ▶
was uh 30. yeah around 30. it's definitely the prime of your life yeah well i believe you asked the first
[2:36:17 - 2:36:24] ▶
captain that briefed you on everything at the nsa complex why is this whole thing being kept secret
[2:36:24 - 2:36:31] ▶
and he talked about economic destabilization and things like that but i think you know i think he
[2:36:31 - 2:36:37] ▶
was parodying what he was told i i don't think he i don't think he had any agency in that answer yeah
[2:36:37 - 2:36:42] ▶
and it's the same answer that everybody has that the reason why we're not being told anything is
[2:36:45 - 2:36:52] ▶
because religion will you know be upset i think that's bullshit i mean i think we live in a pretty
[2:36:52 - 2:36:58] ▶
in effect atheist materialist world or whatever well there would be a certain faction of people that
[2:36:59 - 2:37:05] ▶
would blow their mind if if if it actually came out sure truth-wise i think it would reinforce religion
[2:37:05 - 2:37:11] ▶
in many ways but that's will create maybe others who knows but yeah it would be it would definitely
[2:37:11 - 2:37:17] ▶
do a be a shock to the system for sure nothing else absolutely yeah
[2:37:18 - 2:37:21] ▶
yeah but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done i mean yeah but but anyway i think his what
[2:37:22 - 2:37:27] ▶
he was saying to me was just it was it was just pat answer did you get like kind of a map of what
[2:37:27 - 2:37:33] ▶
was going on alien abduction wise or see any visually or anything um so the the the reason why i thought
[2:37:33 - 2:37:41] ▶
it was abductions is because of the the the um fields so to speak that i was reporting you know the
[2:37:41 - 2:37:47] ▶
information um they would report like uh potentiality for recall and and um pain levels and and um just
[2:37:47 - 2:37:59] ▶
different um things that would i would have to report a number in back of so that indicated that it was
[2:37:59 - 2:38:08] ▶
some sort of it could be bad or good based on the numbers so a pain level could be good or bad so so it's
[2:38:08 - 2:38:16] ▶
almost like you were reporting on abductions like somebody's pain level after having experienced an
[2:38:16 - 2:38:22] ▶
abduction that's fascinating and so you were like the the like readout debrief guy or whatever without
[2:38:22 - 2:38:28] ▶
even maybe knowing it sort of unwittingly yeah and whoa and this is up until that point i had thought
[2:38:28 - 2:38:36] ▶
or i had assumed that the information that i was conveying was all training it was all just stuff you
[2:38:36 - 2:38:43] ▶
know that was um testing my ability to communicate and then when the that started it shifted my head
[2:38:43 - 2:38:52] ▶
like well we're not testing this anymore i mean obviously i can i can communicate a few numbers and
[2:38:52 - 2:38:59] ▶
a word so you're you're actually using me as an operational asset to communicate stuff and why you would
[2:39:00 - 2:39:10] ▶
need to do that i that was another thing is but but i don't want to be i don't want to be um it's one
[2:39:10 - 2:39:19] ▶
thing to train me to do something or you know to in a training environment and nobody's getting hurt or
[2:39:19 - 2:39:25] ▶
you know nothing's nothing nefarious um other than the fact that you're keeping this from the world but
[2:39:25 - 2:39:31] ▶
other than that set that aside um but now i i see that i am part of something that may be nefarious now
[2:39:31 - 2:39:41] ▶
maybe not but maybe and then so i brought that up to my my captain and he didn't give me satisfactory
[2:39:41 - 2:39:51] ▶
answers he said i look i i'm just your communicator here i'm just your contact i'm i'm not i'm not in a
[2:39:51 - 2:39:59] ▶
position to um say it's okay dan you know you know no that's not happening i don't know i don't even
[2:39:59 - 2:40:08] ▶
know what you're communicating so how am i i don't know what to do here so and then when i got to the
[2:40:08 - 2:40:15] ▶
point where i said i want to get out that's when he became an important catalyst for my getting out
[2:40:15 - 2:40:22] ▶
because he said um i honestly don't think you're going to be able to get out like even when your
[2:40:22 - 2:40:27] ▶
list is up yeah you're going to have to stay in so but was that the thing that gave you moral qualms
[2:40:27 - 2:40:32] ▶
about what you do i mean it is fascinating you were kind of like reporting on abductions for the
[2:40:32 - 2:40:40] ▶
aliens maybe like they were probably you know getting receiving signals from you about or reports from
[2:40:40 - 2:40:48] ▶
where the abductions were occurring and then simultaneously presumably you have some gray
[2:40:48 - 2:40:52] ▶
human faction of you know coordinating the proverbial deep state or whatever military
[2:40:52 - 2:40:59] ▶
industrial complex coordinating on where the alien abductions are occurring levels of pain people are
[2:40:59 - 2:41:04] ▶
feeling that's that's amazing yeah and and i i honestly could not i i couldn't be a part of it i i
[2:41:04 - 2:41:12] ▶
i mean i felt morally um um compromised yeah because i didn't have any choice there was no agency in this
[2:41:12 - 2:41:22] ▶
you know so it's one thing it's like um you know when you're told to go out and kill an enemy
[2:41:22 - 2:41:29] ▶
well you have agency you can say no i'm not going to do that and you can court martial me you can do whatever
[2:41:29 - 2:41:35] ▶
you need to do but i'm not going to do that well i didn't have that other than what i did was try to
[2:41:35 - 2:41:42] ▶
get out i didn't have that option i didn't have anybody to say no stop communicating with me i don't
[2:41:42 - 2:41:47] ▶
want to do that and i actually did in my communications i tried to ask about it and say are these abductions
[2:41:47 - 2:41:55] ▶
and i would never get an answer it was like the stonewalling and that's what led me to get all angry
[2:41:55 - 2:42:03] ▶
about it it's so interesting too because in ufo alien lore you have around 1954 as this like really
[2:42:03 - 2:42:11] ▶
important point where this is again mythology i don't have a ton of corroboration for this other
[2:42:11 - 2:42:16] ▶
than i think the fact that eisenhower was actually in palm springs at the time claimed to have a dentist
[2:42:16 - 2:42:22] ▶
appointment and then the the uh sort of story is that that was covered for a meeting he had at edwards
[2:42:22 - 2:42:28] ▶
air force base and it was a meeting with aliens where he basically agreed you know for basically
[2:42:28 - 2:42:37] ▶
like favor and military matters uh to uh give up part of the you know american population for medical
[2:42:37 - 2:42:46] ▶
testing you know when it came to the alien presence and so that really does sound like what you're talking
[2:42:46 - 2:42:52] ▶
about maybe outside of the dates being you know early 1960s first yeah well i often wondered well
[2:42:52 - 2:42:59] ▶
how did they how did they get this information to people that needed to get it before right before
[2:42:59 - 2:43:03] ▶
the ices were doing this sure i was doing at least so i but but um it may be it may have been a test
[2:43:03 - 2:43:11] ▶
you know to test my um resolve to to you know they kind of kind of poke on the little bit of is he
[2:43:12 - 2:43:22] ▶
gonna is he gonna report anything that we tell him yeah you know dead dead numbers is he gonna report
[2:43:22 - 2:43:29] ▶
stuff that is immorally just way immoral is he gonna have problems with anything yeah and i had
[2:43:29 - 2:43:38] ▶
a evidently had a problem have you ever been abducted by an alien i have never been abducted i mean to my
[2:43:38 - 2:43:43] ▶
knowledge anyway your knowledge yeah you've never found an implant or anything sort of bizarre like that
[2:43:43 - 2:43:48] ▶
no have you had synchronicities in your life that you feel like led to your involvement in project
[2:43:48 - 2:43:56] ▶
preserve destiny um well you know it's hard to it's hard to have some sort of concrete evidence but
[2:43:56 - 2:44:05] ▶
i i remember when i was in second grade i was playing on a garage roof and we there was a walnut
[2:44:06 - 2:44:14] ▶
tree next to the roof and we were leaning out on the branches and um one of the branches snapped and
[2:44:14 - 2:44:21] ▶
i fell and i fell like 25 feet it was really really high and i fell on my back directly on my back and
[2:44:21 - 2:44:29] ▶
i remember feeling a sense of warmth i i did i didn't feel the impact but i don't i don't think i felt it
[2:44:30 - 2:44:40] ▶
it as much as you would no you normally that would be severely debilitating yeah and i and i it made me
[2:44:40 - 2:44:48] ▶
cry and i got up but i felt this warmth over me and i i i thought that maybe i was bleeding or you know
[2:44:48 - 2:44:57] ▶
the the trauma of the i mean you don't think of you don't think of a lot of things when you're second
[2:44:57 - 2:45:02] ▶
grade but but in my memory i did not hit that ground the way i should have hit it given it was 25 feet
[2:45:02 - 2:45:10] ▶
up and who knows i mean there could have been some sort of um um watching over so to speak of of my
[2:45:10 - 2:45:22] ▶
personhood um and of course the sr 71 pilot he really encouraged me to go in the air force and um
[2:45:22 - 2:45:30] ▶
um um i have this uh in my the update of my book which i did in 2008 or something like that i have
[2:45:30 - 2:45:41] ▶
this ability to hear a certain and it's not necessarily hearing but it's through my ear it's
[2:45:41 - 2:45:49] ▶
like a wave that comes through my my head and it's sensed in my eardrum and and i think i've correlated it to
[2:45:49 - 2:45:58] ▶
seismic activity i think i'm highly sensitive to seismic activity interesting and i correlated it
[2:45:58 - 2:46:06] ▶
before i got it in the program you'd sense earthquakes well i can't sense an earthquake itself but i can
[2:46:06 - 2:46:13] ▶
sense i think what is happening to a precursor of an earthquake or maybe after you have like
[2:46:13 - 2:46:20] ▶
premonitions well it's not you know not a premonition it's because premonition is more of a idea yeah this is
[2:46:20 - 2:46:27] ▶
a an actual physical thing that happens and and it's like um i don't know if anybody else has this
[2:46:27 - 2:46:33] ▶
ability but when like when a electronic item comes on a tv or um anything that's really highly electronic
[2:46:34 - 2:46:44] ▶
i can i can sense when it's come on you can yeah whoa and like if if so if i'm in the in a different
[2:46:44 - 2:46:51] ▶
room and somebody has the the tv down yeah the tv screen down um i can sense when it's come on so
[2:46:51 - 2:46:57] ▶
you're hypersensitive to electro yeah oh definitely so interesting so the i think i've correlated the
[2:46:57 - 2:47:04] ▶
earthquake thing and it's not a one-to-one correlation it's very tenuous and ethereal you know because
[2:47:04 - 2:47:10] ▶
sometimes i'll send stuff and sometimes i won't well i think you put some examples in your book around
[2:47:11 - 2:47:15] ▶
your blog where you predict accurately certain earthquakes based on sensations and and the only
[2:47:15 - 2:47:21] ▶
reason i did it i i had a blog um back in the early 2000s and i put on there that i don't usually say
[2:47:21 - 2:47:30] ▶
stuff because my blog was about entrepreneurial stuff and things like that but i i did put in there i
[2:47:30 - 2:47:35] ▶
said i don't usually bring this topic into my blog but i really have to put this somewhere because i need
[2:47:35 - 2:47:41] ▶
it to uh to be logged and i said i'm really i have this way or thing in my ear where i can sense
[2:47:41 - 2:47:49] ▶
electromechanic energy or what i think is electromechanic energy and so i'm i woke up that i i don't know if
[2:47:49 - 2:47:59] ▶
i woke up but i had i had lost ear hearing in one of my ears for like three days it was really really
[2:47:59 - 2:48:07] ▶
intense this because usually i just feel it going through my head there's a really minor time of
[2:48:07 - 2:48:14] ▶
like maybe five seconds that i can't hear and then it goes away but this one i i was like deaf in one
[2:48:14 - 2:48:22] ▶
ear for like three days it was ridiculous i couldn't i i didn't know what was going on but then i correlate
[2:48:22 - 2:48:29] ▶
i was like well there's got to be some there's got to be some correlation to something earthquake wise
[2:48:29 - 2:48:35] ▶
so i put in my blog i said now i'm thinking that this might be within the next couple weeks it could
[2:48:35 - 2:48:40] ▶
be in a couple months but it's it's impending this this it's got to be some a seismic activity so um
[2:48:40 - 2:48:48] ▶
there was like two 7.5 earthquakes back to back in japan and some people commented on my blog saying oh
[2:48:50 - 2:48:57] ▶
is that it you know and it was only like a week or so after my thing and i was like you know i guess
[2:48:57 - 2:49:04] ▶
it could be but i don't think it is i think there's something way bigger than that i think this is
[2:49:04 - 2:49:08] ▶
not because because i've i've gone through 7.5 earthquakes around the world you know before i
[2:49:08 - 2:49:14] ▶
never had that happen so i was like no i think it's something else so that was in september of
[2:49:14 - 2:49:20] ▶
both oh three i believe it was and in december is when the the um the indonesian earthquake happened
[2:49:21 - 2:49:29] ▶
mm-hmm and you know 250 000 people died of yeah the waves and all that stuff and well no it was four
[2:49:29 - 2:49:37] ▶
it was it was because i updated my book in 2006 and i updated it with that information okay so anyway
[2:49:37 - 2:49:43] ▶
okay um but it was it was huge yeah whether that was just coincidence and and i got that sensation
[2:49:43 - 2:49:51] ▶
you know that that amount of time before the earthquake who knows and i haven't got anything like
[2:49:51 - 2:49:57] ▶
that since and there's been really really big earthquakes so okay now i i will get i will get
[2:49:57 - 2:50:04] ▶
it like periodically like three times and usually is there an earthquake after you get it i would i
[2:50:04 - 2:50:13] ▶
would say um a lot of the times but not all the time which is reason why i'm so i'm so unclear on
[2:50:13 - 2:50:22] ▶
it because so if it were a one-to-one type of thing then i'd be like yeah that's definitely it well it's
[2:50:22 - 2:50:28] ▶
fascinating if you could map out the correlation more i i i think maybe the more interesting thing
[2:50:28 - 2:50:33] ▶
is most people can't sense when a tv is turned on in their room next to them i mean that's really unique
[2:50:33 - 2:50:39] ▶
yeah it's it's um i can definitely sense and and it actually has a lot to do well the the modern tvs yeah
[2:50:39 - 2:50:47] ▶
not so much but the tube tvs yeah those are the ones that i could really do you think if if
[2:50:47 - 2:50:51] ▶
somebody did a study on you and you were like in a faraday cage or like in a not even faraday cage
[2:50:51 - 2:50:57] ▶
because that will block out the electromagnetic signals so maybe that's a bit yeah say somebody
[2:50:57 - 2:51:01] ▶
did an experiment on you i would love to do that yeah you were in a room somebody was in another room
[2:51:01 - 2:51:07] ▶
next door they shared a wall you know they have an old tv in that room and they're turning on the tv
[2:51:07 - 2:51:13] ▶
do you think you'd be able to i honestly i think i could wow i i mean i've never done it before but
[2:51:13 - 2:51:18] ▶
and this is very anecdotal because i i could i i sensed it when i when i was a kid i would always
[2:51:18 - 2:51:24] ▶
know when the tv was on because when my dad would because we had an older tv and and the sound
[2:51:24 - 2:51:30] ▶
wouldn't come on with it it would it would be one of those tube tvs you know the big tubes in the
[2:51:30 - 2:51:35] ▶
back it was a big magna box and um but i i could be in a different room and i would know that when the
[2:51:35 - 2:51:43] ▶
tv came on because the sound wouldn't come up initially it would just tv would come on and warm
[2:51:43 - 2:51:48] ▶
up very old and so yeah i just i i have a very i'm very sensitive to things like that i'm also
[2:51:48 - 2:51:58] ▶
sensitive to it's very interesting um and this is a fairly new correlation although i've always had it
[2:51:58 - 2:52:05] ▶
probably but with the advent of a lot of videos being shared of people hurting themselves when somebody
[2:52:05 - 2:52:12] ▶
when i when i watch a video of like you know these these videos where you'll have a whole montage
[2:52:12 - 2:52:18] ▶
of people falling and and crashing into a wall yeah yeah just crashing their bike and yeah all these
[2:52:18 - 2:52:23] ▶
things falling on their porch it's like rob dyrdek show or whatever i've like yeah i can't watch
[2:52:23 - 2:52:29] ▶
those because when i when when the impact yeah happens i feel it in my body my entire body does a
[2:52:29 - 2:52:37] ▶
shock when when i look at that and and it's the i think it has to do with the empathic yeah nature of
[2:52:37 - 2:52:46] ▶
me seeing a visual like that it i i honestly cannot i mean i'll watch a couple of them and then i'll go
[2:52:46 - 2:52:53] ▶
no i can't do that so you're you're hypersensitive very very sensitive very sensitive to smell yeah hearing
[2:52:53 - 2:53:00] ▶
all my all my senses are very very very heightened like so fast drives it drives my girlfriend crazy
[2:53:00 - 2:53:06] ▶
i can smell somebody smoking in the car in front of me on the highway whoa i mean so interesting i
[2:53:06 - 2:53:12] ▶
mean a lot of people can smell smoke too but but they can it's very very very very heightened well
[2:53:12 - 2:53:20] ▶
it's you know there are different forms of sensing and we obviously have the the five senses
[2:53:20 - 2:53:25] ▶
but you know that like the platypus can sense electric fields for example you have lots of examples like
[2:53:26 - 2:53:32] ▶
that you know so it's kind of impossible yeah or it's like why you know maybe there's genetic mutations
[2:53:32 - 2:53:38] ▶
and maybe you were literally genetically manipulated by aliens in the womb yeah to be able to sense
[2:53:38 - 2:53:42] ▶
certain things it could have ancillary um crossovers in other in other areas of the brain well that would
[2:53:42 - 2:53:50] ▶
make sense yeah that it wouldn't be an isolated thing yeah yeah babies also have you know they're
[2:53:50 - 2:53:56] ▶
hypersensitive they also have synesthesia up until six months and there's a space psychologist who works
[2:53:56 - 2:54:03] ▶
with a lot of astronauts and she calls herself a cognitive engineer her name is dr ea whiteley
[2:54:03 - 2:54:09] ▶
and she's trying to train babies to retain their synesthesia for longer because she thinks that comports
[2:54:09 - 2:54:16] ▶
with alien communication though it's really interesting very interesting yeah your job is really interesting i love
[2:54:16 - 2:54:24] ▶
it it's so fun man it's so interesting i mean i get to talk to people like you and learn about all this crazy
[2:54:24 - 2:54:29] ▶
stuff it's so cool yeah um has anything well actually we should talk about like the increased sort of
[2:54:29 - 2:54:38] ▶
bitterness towards this you're in the prime of your life you're 30 years old you know that you have all this
[2:54:38 - 2:54:43] ▶
opportunity cost you're probably have no romantic life your social life is probably kind of shot
[2:54:43 - 2:54:47] ▶
and then you talk to your captain about wanting out and what does he say and how yeah he said
[2:54:48 - 2:54:52] ▶
he he suggested he didn't say it like you know you will not but he said i don't honestly given your
[2:54:52 - 2:55:01] ▶
position i don't think they're going to allow you to get out period never mind the fact you want to get
[2:55:01 - 2:55:06] ▶
out now i had about two or three years left on my enlistment and i decided to just make an end run and
[2:55:06 - 2:55:15] ▶
and try to get out um because i just didn't want to be a part of it anymore and and i think if they had
[2:55:15 - 2:55:22] ▶
if i had become more embraced part of a community you know part of a mission yeah those are different
[2:55:22 - 2:55:32] ▶
you you're your human mind approaches that differently yeah if you're just isolated and in a
[2:55:32 - 2:55:38] ▶
way box and nobody wants to talk to you and you're just a tool yep it it's harder it's harder to keep
[2:55:38 - 2:55:46] ▶
that that motivation and that the the superman um the superman uh uh aspect of this you know because
[2:55:46 - 2:55:56] ▶
when you're first told this you think oh i'm i'm a little bit of a superhero yeah yeah yeah i'm really
[2:55:56 - 2:56:01] ▶
special and all that that only goes so far and so long and and then you start to that starts to become
[2:56:01 - 2:56:09] ▶
no longer a novelty it's just it's a drudgery and then when i get this information about the
[2:56:09 - 2:56:15] ▶
about the um abductions and it just took on a new level and i just didn't want to be a part of it
[2:56:16 - 2:56:21] ▶
anymore so how'd you get out at the time the don't ask don't tell policy was in place and um and i i was
[2:56:21 - 2:56:31] ▶
bisexual at the time and uh less so now but at the time i was and so i admitted i said i wrote a
[2:56:31 - 2:56:43] ▶
letter to my commander and i said and this was the the commander that was not in charge of me
[2:56:43 - 2:56:48] ▶
from the project perspective project preserve destiny it was my just my regular chain of command my
[2:56:49 - 2:56:56] ▶
uh black and and then unclassified level that chain of command got a letter and i said i'm admitting
[2:56:56 - 2:57:04] ▶
homosexuality and whatever you want to do with that but i don't want to be i don't want to be in in a
[2:57:04 - 2:57:13] ▶
conflict with the policy of you know no homosexuals in the military and so just want to let you know i
[2:57:13 - 2:57:20] ▶
want to be honest and then that's the paperwork started and discharge and the whole nine yards wow
[2:57:20 - 2:57:28] ▶
so the chain of command was crucial there because if if the chain of command for project preserve
[2:57:28 - 2:57:34] ▶
destiny had their way and they had final say on that then i would not have gotten out they would
[2:57:34 - 2:57:40] ▶
have just tossed the letter and and but i i purposely went through another chain of command who did not have
[2:57:40 - 2:57:47] ▶
the option of doing something like that were you relieved on the other side of of this or oh yeah
[2:57:47 - 2:57:52] ▶
definitely i i was way happier that i didn't have to participate in that anymore um do i have regrets
[2:57:52 - 2:58:01] ▶
yeah of course i mean i i i regret not being able to continue serving my time because i'm kind of a you
[2:58:01 - 2:58:11] ▶
know i i'm a patriotic guy and i love my country and and i i felt that was a little bit of a
[2:58:11 - 2:58:17] ▶
um a stab in the back of the country but on the other flip side of that they were stabbing me in
[2:58:18 - 2:58:25] ▶
the back too oh yeah or at least a certain faction of the of my chain of command so it was it was
[2:58:25 - 2:58:33] ▶
something that i had to tussle with mentally but well you served and they can't hold you captive yeah
[2:58:33 - 2:58:38] ▶
yeah yeah exactly so and i wasn't going to be held captive that's for sure and an alien intuitive
[2:58:38 - 2:58:44] ▶
communication program nonetheless you know it's not a garden variety like you know just being deployed
[2:58:44 - 2:58:51] ▶
um dan did you experience any backlash after telling this story i mean it's kind of a bombshell
[2:58:51 - 2:58:57] ▶
claim the nsa is notorious for knowing everything about everybody per ed snowden's revelations yeah
[2:58:57 - 2:59:02] ▶
that's true um you know i do have one story um this was about maybe two years after the book came out
[2:59:02 - 2:59:12] ▶
something like that maybe a little less and i was working in an office and uh howard stern show called
[2:59:12 - 2:59:21] ▶
on my cell phone and um they the producer one of the producers was just trying to find a story to you
[2:59:22 - 2:59:32] ▶
know bring on the the show and so he was asking me some questions and and so i got off the phone and i hung
[2:59:32 - 2:59:40] ▶
up the phone and i i was like wow howard stern that's got an interesting interesting little venue for
[2:59:40 - 2:59:48] ▶
talking about aliens okay and then not i'd say maybe a minute went by and i got another call on my cell phone
[2:59:48 - 2:59:59] ▶
and and the person on the other end of the line said drop the story don't go on howard stern and
[2:59:59 - 3:00:09] ▶
stop talking about it no way and then just hung up no way it was only about a minute after the the call
[3:00:09 - 3:00:16] ▶
and he didn't go on howard stern no and and well they never called back howard stern never called back
[3:00:16 - 3:00:20] ▶
so maybe they got the same call i don't know i don't know whether it was just wasn't worth it for
[3:00:20 - 3:00:24] ▶
them to do it or they got a call or i don't know but you got a call from a random number that wasn't
[3:00:24 - 3:00:30] ▶
in your phone well this was but phone probably didn't even have the number you weren't even saving
[3:00:30 - 3:00:35] ▶
numbers at that no no no no that's wild and what did it sound threatening no it just it just sounded
[3:00:35 - 3:00:41] ▶
very direct to the point and i think it was just a they've been monitoring the situation with my story
[3:00:41 - 3:00:50] ▶
and and they know that
[3:00:51 - 3:00:53] ▶
if if they put attention to it the government says you know they arrest me let's say yeah that's me and
[3:00:55 - 3:01:02] ▶
put me up on charges um they're validating the story right so it it's almost like it's better to not
[3:01:02 - 3:01:10] ▶
just leave them alone and be among you know one amongst the stoma stigmata and yeah and the alien
[3:01:11 - 3:01:17] ▶
that nobody knows how to differentiate exactly that's the trouble i have with some of these things it's like
[3:01:17 - 3:01:22] ▶
and especially on youtube sometimes it's like a it always has this quacky veneer it's self-concealing
[3:01:23 - 3:01:29] ▶
it's self-stigmatizing and people don't have the discernment they bucket it in with the stigmata stuff
[3:01:29 - 3:01:34] ▶
and i'm like yeah no i think this is kind of real like this this is like a very different you know yeah
[3:01:34 - 3:01:39] ▶
variety that is the problem with the whole the whole topic yeah yeah because you don't know what to what to
[3:01:39 - 3:01:46] ▶
take serious someone to not take you really don't do you think that the nsa or powers that be know
[3:01:46 - 3:01:52] ▶
that this interview is happening it obviously hasn't been released do you think somebody's tracking
[3:01:52 - 3:01:56] ▶
us doing this i think i've been off the grid so long that i probably have not i don't have an agent
[3:01:56 - 3:02:02] ▶
attached attached to your story i don't think but who knows who knows yeah yeah well to anybody listening
[3:02:02 - 3:02:10] ▶
i'll let you know if i get a call okay i'll do the same yeah yeah hopefully we neither of us get dropped the story
[3:02:10 - 3:02:15] ▶
right after this you took this whole trip has anything you know after having left this program
[3:02:15 - 3:02:22] ▶
for many years now you're out for you know three decades i imagine you go to these ufo conferences
[3:02:22 - 3:02:27] ▶
you've written your book and people come out of the woodwork and so have you met anybody who said i was
[3:02:27 - 3:02:34] ▶
also a part of project preserve destiny or anything like that i've i've had people mention to me that they
[3:02:34 - 3:02:41] ▶
met somebody who confirmed that it existed but nobody that was actually in the program no i haven't
[3:02:41 - 3:02:50] ▶
i have not had anybody contact me do you know uh have you heard of this guy named noah i could be
[3:02:50 - 3:02:56] ▶
pronouncing his last name incorrectly radek noah radek well how do you spell the last name h-r-a-d-e-k
[3:02:56 - 3:03:03] ▶
oh no so he put out a freedom of information act around project preserve destiny
[3:03:04 - 3:03:11] ▶
probably inspired by your story to the air force and wanted to know if it was real and the air force
[3:03:11 - 3:03:17] ▶
said that's an nsa project forwarded it to the nsa and then the nsa said we can't comment on the
[3:03:18 - 3:03:24] ▶
existence or non-existence of such a project standard answer standard answer if you're
[3:03:24 - 3:03:30] ▶
admitting that it exists basically the modern hermeneutic reading on that is this is a real
[3:03:31 - 3:03:36] ▶
project i want to emphasize just how important this point of discussion is while at first the
[3:03:36 - 3:03:42] ▶
air force denied the existence of project preserve destiny to this independent researcher noah radek
[3:03:42 - 3:03:48] ▶
they followed up later saying this and i quote good afternoon this letter is in final response to your
[3:03:48 - 3:03:55] ▶
27th of july 2023 freedom of information act request for requesting information on project preserve destiny
[3:03:55 - 3:04:04] ▶
we apologize in the delay in responding after a careful review of your request we have determined
[3:04:04 - 3:04:11] ▶
that the information you are seeking falls under the purview of the nsa therefore our office has
[3:04:11 - 3:04:19] ▶
referred your request to the nsa for their processing and direct response to you why would the air force
[3:04:19 - 3:04:25] ▶
tell radek that this program fell under the purview of the nsa if the program didn't exist
[3:04:25 - 3:04:31] ▶
and it's remarkable that his request to begin with didn't even mention dan sherman it independently
[3:04:31 - 3:04:38] ▶
corroborates that project preserve destiny existed under the nsa then not only could the nsa not
[3:04:38 - 3:04:44] ▶
confirm or deny the existence of project preserve destiny they cited executive order 13526 around
[3:04:44 - 3:04:52] ▶
projects classified in the interest of national defense to quote their exact response this agency has
[3:04:52 - 3:04:59] ▶
determined that the fact of the existence or non-existence of the material you request is a
[3:04:59 - 3:05:05] ▶
currently and properly classified matter in accordance with executive order 13526 thus your request is
[3:05:05 - 3:05:13] ▶
denied so yes on the one hand the nsa is caveating their entire response with the existence or non-existence
[3:05:13 - 3:05:21] ▶
of project preserve destiny they're basically giving themselves an out on the program even existing but why
[3:05:21 - 3:05:27] ▶
would the non-existence of project preserve destiny cause the nsa to invoke executive order 13526 which
[3:05:27 - 3:05:35] ▶
only involves classified programs dealing with national defense why would they cite this specific
[3:05:35 - 3:05:41] ▶
executive order in response to a foyer request around project preserve destiny to me the air force
[3:05:41 - 3:05:47] ▶
rerouting the foyer request to the nsa actually feels like more of a smoking gun on the program's existence
[3:05:47 - 3:05:53] ▶
the nsa's response could be interpreted as a standard runaround or non-answer but i'll let my hardcore
[3:05:53 - 3:05:59] ▶
researcher friends weigh in here perhaps what's even harder to argue with than coded language from
[3:05:59 - 3:06:06] ▶
the government is this certificate granted to sherman by the nsa for satisfactory completion of the
[3:06:06 - 3:06:13] ▶
ea-280 intermediate electronics intelligence collection and analysis course again this was for the daytime
[3:06:13 - 3:06:21] ▶
course sherman attended at the nsa complex doing normal electronics intelligence training not his
[3:06:21 - 3:06:27] ▶
very classified project preserve destiny work he would do at night but it really helped substantiate
[3:06:27 - 3:06:33] ▶
his presence with the nsa when he claimed to be working with them a fantastic researcher named richard
[3:06:33 - 3:06:40] ▶
geldreich did even more digging on dan sherman with an ancestry.com search the results showed that
[3:06:40 - 3:06:46] ▶
sherman likely in fact lived in omaha nebraska between 1993 and 1994 around 15 to 20 minutes from
[3:06:46 - 3:06:54] ▶
off at air force base in nebraska where he said he was stationed could this be project preserve destiny
[3:06:54 - 3:07:00] ▶
base 2 it certainly fits his description and so i don't know if you know that that happened um it sounds
[3:07:00 - 3:07:11] ▶
familiar it sounds like somebody told maybe you told me in in some of the communications we had i've heard
[3:07:11 - 3:07:16] ▶
some something i don't think i did no i heard somebody say something about it somewhere you know
[3:07:16 - 3:07:21] ▶
when you're when you're in my position you hear so many people talk about so many different things
[3:07:21 - 3:07:27] ▶
and it's it just it becomes just a conglomeration of of information that just goes through my head
[3:07:27 - 3:07:35] ▶
and i and it doesn't help that my personal interests don't really lie in this area yeah no no i think
[3:07:35 - 3:07:43] ▶
that's cool though it's like probably good it's also to me it's a good signal that you reacted the
[3:07:43 - 3:07:48] ▶
way you did just now um because i think if somebody were like cared a lot about like you know arguing
[3:07:48 - 3:07:55] ▶
for his case he'd be like they'd have like a kind of like an encyclopedic like canon of like corroborating
[3:07:55 - 3:08:01] ▶
evidence and you're like yeah cool like i know what i went through so it doesn't really matter to me
[3:08:01 - 3:08:05] ▶
like i think that's a big deal as a researcher and you're like whatever it's like i had a i had more of an
[3:08:06 - 3:08:12] ▶
interest in aliens before i knew they were aliens really than i do now why i think it's the mystery
[3:08:12 - 3:08:18] ▶
of it the mystery is what people are attracted to right um i mean obviously you know we want to know
[3:08:18 - 3:08:26] ▶
the truth yeah but um but i know the truth so you feel like you've gotten confirmation yeah so my
[3:08:26 - 3:08:32] ▶
mystery the kind of the mysterious uh the um the mystery aspect of it has vanished have you tried to
[3:08:32 - 3:08:40] ▶
develop your communications and speak oh i've tried before and after leaving yeah preserve destiny have
[3:08:40 - 3:08:46] ▶
you have you been successful and nothing nothing's there it's like it's like it was closed off have you
[3:08:46 - 3:08:52] ▶
tried to recreate any of the training with the tones or anything like that or no i i think they used um
[3:08:52 - 3:08:58] ▶
some sort of equipment that was designed for that that was sort of this special proprietary thing
[3:08:58 - 3:09:03] ▶
that they figured out and it's so interesting yeah i also think of the nsa's involvement with this
[3:09:03 - 3:09:09] ▶
stuff the modern you know the the kind of ufo research group that is you know very in the know
[3:09:09 - 3:09:18] ▶
right now as far as the the official like the modern project blue book if you will um it's called
[3:09:18 - 3:09:23] ▶
harrow the all domain anomalies resolution office okay and the current uh head of that it was a former
[3:09:23 - 3:09:30] ▶
nsa director i don't think he was like the director but he was like a director level or whatever
[3:09:30 - 3:09:35] ▶
um so i find that interesting his name is john kozlowski so i find that interesting as well it's like why
[3:09:35 - 3:09:40] ▶
would you put that guy you know maybe there is some nsa overlap because there aren't too many stories
[3:09:40 - 3:09:47] ▶
connected with the nsa and the alien stuff but you would assume you know if the alien stuff is real
[3:09:47 - 3:09:53] ▶
which obviously i believe it is the nsa has to have a lot of entanglement with it yeah um you know
[3:09:53 - 3:09:59] ▶
there's so many different connections because i was assigned to um well let's just say in general yeah i
[3:09:59 - 3:10:10] ▶
was assigned to the space command and and during some of my tenure in the air force and and uh they
[3:10:10 - 3:10:18] ▶
have they have many connections to so nsa has many connections to many different um bands yeah okay
[3:10:18 - 3:10:27] ▶
they're not just nsa and that's it sure you know they have they have connections everywhere yeah yeah
[3:10:27 - 3:10:33] ▶
well i won't ask more i believe we brushed up against classified stuff there's a guy named scott
[3:10:34 - 3:10:40] ▶
andrews have you heard that name he when he was 36 years he has i guess um a biography coming out
[3:10:40 - 3:10:46] ▶
this or next year uh that's very anticipated when he was 36 years old he started experiencing headaches
[3:10:46 - 3:10:52] ▶
and migraines and kind of destabilizing dizziness some kind of havana syndrome style effects yeah and
[3:10:52 - 3:10:58] ▶
he said uh that his father he he started to you know wonder why he was feeling like this like it was
[3:10:58 - 3:11:05] ▶
almost like his identity was breaking down and then he approached his father who had a file on him
[3:11:05 - 3:11:10] ▶
uh and he started to realize that as a as a child uh i think in in like you know elementary and
[3:11:10 - 3:11:17] ▶
middle school he was taken out of class and he was taken to uh space command to the an air force base
[3:11:17 - 3:11:24] ▶
with the space command center and was doing kind of intuitive communications with aliens so it definitely
[3:11:24 - 3:11:31] ▶
sort of comports with your with your story what's his name again scott andrews and did he how did you
[3:11:31 - 3:11:36] ▶
find out about this it's all over twitter oh okay yeah and did he write a book or did he just reveal
[3:11:36 - 3:11:42] ▶
i think he's written a book and i think it's coming out at some point in the next year or so so
[3:11:42 - 3:11:47] ▶
interesting yeah how old is he i don't know how old he is now so yeah i mean i think that might even
[3:11:47 - 3:11:52] ▶
be a pseudonym i don't know i i i hope he uh he goes more public but interesting yeah it's very
[3:11:52 - 3:11:58] ▶
anticipated like this story it could be a um an offshoot of what i went through maybe another
[3:11:58 - 3:12:06] ▶
you know because they i'm i'm pretty sure that pvd has been shut down okay in in its it cur or what i saw
[3:12:06 - 3:12:15] ▶
in current form yeah and and perhaps gone on to other things because you know things don't happen
[3:12:15 - 3:12:21] ▶
they don't last forever sure they they get they morph into something else and then that morphs into
[3:12:22 - 3:12:27] ▶
something else well do you ever think you're part of like a reserve group where you'll get called back
[3:12:27 - 3:12:32] ▶
into yeah well if the if the cataclysmic thing ever happens i would assume that that would be the case
[3:12:32 - 3:12:39] ▶
so so this is one of the most fascinating things about your whole story is just recently this year
[3:12:39 - 3:12:46] ▶
uh in less espresso some italian like weekly uh there came out a story that references uh project
[3:12:47 - 3:12:56] ▶
preserve destiny and it comes out of nowhere and this could be chalked up to some sort of weird like
[3:12:56 - 3:13:01] ▶
amalgamation of ufo lore like your story being you know an important one but it goes into a level of
[3:13:01 - 3:13:08] ▶
detail that you like you don't go into so it's like what do the authors of this periodical know
[3:13:08 - 3:13:16] ▶
about this project they say this and this is a translation there are not only duties in donald
[3:13:16 - 3:13:21] ▶
trump's new agenda behind the scenes in washington there's a much darker dossier the one on ufos and
[3:13:21 - 3:13:28] ▶
according to confidential sources something very concrete is already moving it's called project
[3:13:28 - 3:13:34] ▶
preserve destiny and it's much more than just a study program of so-called uaps unidentified anomalous
[3:13:34 - 3:13:41] ▶
phenomena behind this name evocative and disturbing hides an institutional waltz round that risks redrawing
[3:13:41 - 3:13:48] ▶
the balance between the pentagon and the white house and then it goes on to describe that project as
[3:13:48 - 3:13:54] ▶
project preserve destiny and it's like how does this italian weekly know about your project that is very
[3:13:54 - 3:14:01] ▶
interesting this is maybe the strangest modern curveball in sherman's whole story in july of
[3:14:01 - 3:14:07] ▶
2025 an italian outlet called le espresso published an article which discusses project preserve destiny
[3:14:07 - 3:14:15] ▶
and trump's white house's involvement with it this magazine is kind of like the atlantic or rolling
[3:14:15 - 3:14:21] ▶
stones dramatic italian cousin it has a long history of serious political journalism but it's not shy about
[3:14:21 - 3:14:28] ▶
flirting with speculation and theatrical flair it's a serious outlet but we're not talking about the
[3:14:28 - 3:14:33] ▶
economist here still when they drop a story about trump taking control of black budget alien programs
[3:14:33 - 3:14:40] ▶
you don't dismiss it as trashy tabloid nonsense the article claims that project preserve destiny is not
[3:14:40 - 3:14:46] ▶
only real but that trump's inner circle has been in closed door meetings with pentagon officials and
[3:14:46 - 3:14:52] ▶
they've decided to move certain special access programs or saps out of pentagon oversight and
[3:14:52 - 3:14:58] ▶
directly into the white house projects like project preserve destiny according to the article's
[3:14:58 - 3:15:03] ▶
anonymous sources trump sees the ufo issue as a kind of wild card a chance to brand himself as the
[3:15:03 - 3:15:10] ▶
president who finally tells americans the truth about aliens an opportunity i personally think he
[3:15:10 - 3:15:15] ▶
shouldn't pass up the article goes on to describe six levels of secrecy programs within programs
[3:15:15 - 3:15:22] ▶
exactly what sherman describes in his book a black budget cover mission deeply compartmentalized insulated
[3:15:22 - 3:15:29] ▶
from oversight by other branches of government but above it a gray program core above black dealing with
[3:15:29 - 3:15:36] ▶
the alien issue if you want to dive deeper into this mysterious trump connection and what project
[3:15:36 - 3:15:42] ▶
preserve destiny might actually mean for ufo disclosure check out our substack american alchemy magazine
[3:15:42 - 3:15:48] ▶
i'm linking it in the description below but now back to this crazy interview it's it's fascinating
[3:15:48 - 3:15:55] ▶
you know i will say that out of all the presidents that have been uh read into you know black projects
[3:15:55 - 3:16:02] ▶
and gray projects yeah i would imagine this is the one that would uh upend the the apple cart as much as
[3:16:02 - 3:16:09] ▶
he possibly could sure and it might also be why he has not been read into it too i think there are
[3:16:09 - 3:16:17] ▶
certain presidents that the the status quo within the the government yeah control centers that have
[3:16:17 - 3:16:26] ▶
decided not to read in a certain president yeah and then other ones they have um i i don't know what
[3:16:26 - 3:16:34] ▶
the criteria of that would be well you would assume somebody like a george hw bush who was director of
[3:16:34 - 3:16:39] ▶
the cia would be like of a different variety maybe than jimmy carter but they also might do it in
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in um just in certain times when they actually need to do it if they don't need to do it then they
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don't do it so it who knows i mean who knows how it segues with the white house and uh is the first
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uh project preserve destiny base that you were at san vito normani in southern italy that is one of the
[3:16:58 - 3:17:06] ▶
bases that i was stationed okay well thank you for saying that i figured that was that was the one
[3:17:06 - 3:17:11] ▶
that was shut down so we did a little we did a little searching from the images that you you know
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there haven't been any other bases that have been shut down that i was at there might have been but
[3:17:16 - 3:17:22] ▶
the overseas come on researcher where's the reason you talk about the the white the white golden the
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actually talked about an elephant cage which is one of these large you know antennas and that exists
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there and talk about it being 50 people and it was a smaller base and so we we figured it out all
[3:17:32 - 3:17:38] ▶
right here's where things get interesting after reading dan's book above black i kept thinking
[3:17:38 - 3:17:44] ▶
about that elephant cage at the first base dan was stationed at for project preserve destiny the so-called
[3:17:44 - 3:17:50] ▶
elephant cage was basically just a large structure which surrounded a huge antenna or receiver and we now
[3:17:50 - 3:17:57] ▶
know this base was san vito de normani air station in italy in fact here's a photo of it in his book
[3:17:57 - 3:18:03] ▶
above black i did some research and it turns out this massive antenna was designed to pick up high
[3:18:03 - 3:18:10] ▶
frequency waves offit base in nebraska also has high frequency wave antennas and low frequency wave
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antennas were these antennas and the signals they received somehow very important for the signals that
[3:18:17 - 3:18:24] ▶
dan himself was trying to decode for the nsa were these satellites somehow aiding in his telepathic
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downloads did noise cancellation technologies possibly working with the nsa in maryland provide some much
[3:18:31 - 3:18:37] ▶
needed technological assistance in filtering out the non-alien frequencies from these transmissions
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who knows but we do know that the cia was experimenting as early as the 60s under dr andrei puharic
[3:18:44 - 3:18:51] ▶
with extra low or ultra low or sometimes called very low frequencies for telepathic alien communication
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puharic's work sort of met a tragic dead end he was doing all sorts of crazy in fact he had a whole
[3:18:59 - 3:19:05] ▶
team of intuitive communicators he called the space kids who would constantly channel aliens puharic's
[3:19:05 - 3:19:12] ▶
work came to a standstill but many have speculated that it was developed and is still ongoing today so
[3:19:12 - 3:19:18] ▶
who knows the entire electromagnetic wave spectrum is very very large is there some slice of it that
[3:19:18 - 3:19:25] ▶
involves alien signals alien signals being received on these bases that dan sherman was then able to
[3:19:25 - 3:19:31] ▶
parse and download with his mind and then what i you know i this italian periodical writing about project
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preserve destiny there has to be some sort of connection there there is that's very interesting i mean it's years
[3:19:41 - 3:19:46] ▶
apart but yeah do you think the vatican knows about this project um i don't know i don't know if they
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would have a need to know about the project yeah yeah i don't know what do you uh hope for the rest of
[3:19:54 - 3:20:02] ▶
your life what what do you what do you are you just do you just want to have like a normal life from here
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and you know well i mean i i hope for the country that or the world really that we find um we
[3:20:06 - 3:20:14] ▶
find the truth yeah whatever that is and god knows you know today's society the truth is whatever is
[3:20:14 - 3:20:22] ▶
being fed to you at that moment sure we we don't know what the truth is um but it is my hope that
[3:20:22 - 3:20:29] ▶
we find out the actual truth behind our involvement with alien species in this in this world in our world
[3:20:29 - 3:20:37] ▶
history um i but i honestly don't think it'll ever happen yeah i honestly do not i mean the whole truth
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we might get we may get certain things that come out like this you know the the nasa just recently
[3:20:44 - 3:20:52] ▶
announced that they found some sort of life on mars amazing yeah and or or evidence of previous life yes
[3:20:52 - 3:20:59] ▶
and and even that is amazing yeah you know so but it's things like that that we might find or we might
[3:20:59 - 3:21:07] ▶
find that aliens have been here a long time ago but are no longer with us you know we may find these
[3:21:07 - 3:21:14] ▶
little things well nasa was also just determined to be a spy agency by trump and so you have to think
[3:21:14 - 3:21:21] ▶
with some of these little announcements like there was already a meteor meteorite in the 90s that you know
[3:21:21 - 3:21:27] ▶
clinton came out with alh 84001 that had polycyclic hydrocarbons on it or whatever and so there there's
[3:21:27 - 3:21:36] ▶
already this belief and we know that mars had a biosphere and so if there are projects that exist
[3:21:36 - 3:21:41] ▶
like yours in the at the nsa where you're systematically communicating with aliens this has to be some sort
[3:21:41 - 3:21:46] ▶
of slow drip disclosure like oh we found a little thing with some organic compounds on it or whatever you
[3:21:46 - 3:21:52] ▶
know that has to be coordinated yeah well my that's just my hope um and i i'm after this podcast i'm
[3:21:52 - 3:22:02] ▶
probably just gonna go right back into my hole i've already had you know since um there was a book
[3:22:02 - 3:22:09] ▶
review that just happened on youtube just a couple days ago that it came across i have a google alert for
[3:22:09 - 3:22:16] ▶
my name and you know so whenever somebody mentions my name it comes up and that came up and uh so it's
[3:22:16 - 3:22:21] ▶
two people talking about the book yeah and and um just recently there has been a lot of chatter about
[3:22:21 - 3:22:29] ▶
my book yeah i don't know what kind of generated it and but it's probably what led you to it to
[3:22:29 - 3:22:35] ▶
communicate with me well i've been into it for for years now what do you think about where the ufo like
[3:22:35 - 3:22:41] ▶
disclosure stuff is now like are you tracking any of the modern ufo whistleblowers like david grush i'm
[3:22:41 - 3:22:47] ▶
not doing anything okay i i answer a twitter every once in a while like you yeah and that's about it
[3:22:47 - 3:22:52] ▶
and one person posted a picture of me a bad picture of me and so i i replied to him i said this is a
[3:22:52 - 3:23:00] ▶
better picture it was a military picture um to the extent that my name comes up every once in a while
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i'll go look at it sure i'll maybe comment on it if i have a comment um but i can tell you it's ramped
[3:23:06 - 3:23:14] ▶
up that's for darn sure yeah i mean it's it's way more prevalent now and again i think it's because
[3:23:14 - 3:23:19] ▶
of social media i mean people people like to talk now and and whatever the topic is they want to talk
[3:23:19 - 3:23:27] ▶
about it and so that's just a good fodder for talk has this experience opened your mind to new
[3:23:27 - 3:23:35] ▶
modalities of physics and communicate like does it make you think that what we think we know and
[3:23:35 - 3:23:40] ▶
the received wisdom that we're taught in schools is extremely limited oh i don't know um i've always
[3:23:40 - 3:23:50] ▶
been interested in in advancements and stuff like that so when i do see an advancement or i see
[3:23:50 - 3:23:57] ▶
um like that uap thing that just with the rocket i don't know you've been with that with the hellfire
[3:23:58 - 3:24:03] ▶
missile yeah yeah yeah that eric bro just showed in front of congress yeah i i have a i have an
[3:24:03 - 3:24:10] ▶
intellectual curiosity about it but i don't necessarily correlate it with my experience
[3:24:10 - 3:24:15] ▶
um only because i i've there's just been so much so much over the years that that people say well does
[3:24:16 - 3:24:25] ▶
that correlate with what you do is that query with i have no idea like i don't know i have no idea i have
[3:24:25 - 3:24:32] ▶
as much idea about it as you do did um did steven greer ever reach out to you i i've i've talked with
[3:24:32 - 3:24:38] ▶
him i think a couple times over the years um because he has a whole cadre of like whistleblowers from
[3:24:38 - 3:24:44] ▶
isn't he the one that he's the one that started that that project disclosure yeah disclosure project
[3:24:44 - 3:24:49] ▶
yeah that's what i was trying to get yeah yeah okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so they've been reaching
[3:24:49 - 3:24:53] ▶
out to you they have yeah yeah okay not stephen greer himself but somebody else now stephen greer i
[3:24:53 - 3:25:00] ▶
think him and i talked a long time ago okay um but there's somebody else that's reaching out now that
[3:25:00 - 3:25:06] ▶
is talking about testimony and stuff so okay and he is in the position to get whistleblower
[3:25:07 - 3:25:13] ▶
uh immunity and all that so okay it's like somebody from the government or on the outside working with
[3:25:14 - 3:25:21] ▶
the government okay somebody on the outside but working with the government to get to the right
[3:25:21 - 3:25:26] ▶
people to give the right kind of immunity so that people can feel free to to say what they want to
[3:25:26 - 3:25:31] ▶
say would you testify before oh yes i go you'd go under oath oh definitely but but um i would do it
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but it's not gonna for me anyway from my project so long ago i don't think it's gonna really reveal a
[3:25:39 - 3:25:46] ▶
lot of information but if you were called to go like in a couple weeks you'd get
[3:25:46 - 3:25:51] ▶
i would give any information that i have yeah well that's awesome and i think it's a again for the
[3:25:51 - 3:25:56] ▶
audience to hear that level of confidence yeah i mean i there's nothing if if they give me the
[3:25:56 - 3:26:02] ▶
immunity necessary so i can talk about and not worry about talking about the stuff that i you know
[3:26:02 - 3:26:08] ▶
worked on yeah ancillary to the gray project there's no reason not to i mean yeah yeah it'd be
[3:26:08 - 3:26:14] ▶
open book yeah that's me yeah yeah under threat of perjury yeah yeah exactly yeah well
[3:26:15 - 3:26:20] ▶
yeah this is the most nonchalant conversation i've ever had about alien telepathic communication
[3:26:21 - 3:26:27] ▶
how shallant can it get well there's a lot of drama and you know it's a lot of like bluster often when
[3:26:27 - 3:26:35] ▶
with these sorts of stories and it's it's refreshing to just hear like uh you know these are the facts but
[3:26:35 - 3:26:40] ▶
uh it's been an honor to to speak with you i really appreciate you coming out here and it means a lot
[3:26:40 - 3:26:46] ▶
it's been fun yeah what do you think um the final question bones and spock um what do you think they
[3:26:46 - 3:26:53] ▶
wanted with humanity do you think they had any sort of intentions for humanity at large
[3:26:53 - 3:26:58] ▶
um well i think they were soldiers i mean not not military but like they were underlings yeah yeah they
[3:27:00 - 3:27:07] ▶
were just doing their job so to speak yeah but um i i didn't ever get a sense of um any type of
[3:27:07 - 3:27:15] ▶
uh anger or any type of um not being gentle towards us you know having nefarious motives or anything like
[3:27:16 - 3:27:29] ▶
that and so when i do see hollywood project you know the aliens are just you know they're they're out to
[3:27:29 - 3:27:36] ▶
get us or whatever i don't really see that that's the case i mean imagine being so advanced that you
[3:27:36 - 3:27:44] ▶
could coexist with another species and then not know of your existence totally i mean other than
[3:27:44 - 3:27:50] ▶
the ones that you want them to know your existence and and be nefarious towards us there's no reason
[3:27:50 - 3:27:56] ▶
to be nefarious towards us um or to put it differently we'd be dead already yeah if they were yeah yeah so
[3:27:56 - 3:28:02] ▶
i think that they just want the best for our society and maybe that's why they haven't revealed
[3:28:03 - 3:28:09] ▶
themselves because the whole star trek uh mantra uh you know don't don't interfere in other people's
[3:28:09 - 3:28:17] ▶
other societies or or you know um uh because you you interject into their society something that
[3:28:17 - 3:28:27] ▶
would not have been there naturally so you're you're basically an enemy of that whatever that
[3:28:27 - 3:28:32] ▶
ecosystem is because it's not natural so maybe they're thinking like that maybe they want to not
[3:28:32 - 3:28:39] ▶
be as um interfering as as uh you well you don't want to be as inferior interfering as you could be
[3:28:39 - 3:28:49] ▶
if you didn't have the um uh control you know they they control things so they're going to interfere
[3:28:50 - 3:28:58] ▶
to the extent that they want to interfere yeah and they haven't they haven't chosen to interfere
[3:28:58 - 3:29:03] ▶
more than they have so well speaking of star trek it's like the prime directive minimal minimal
[3:29:03 - 3:29:09] ▶
interference with the warp drive civilization yeah exactly so that's what i was saying maybe your
[3:29:09 - 3:29:15] ▶
names were apt exactly there's a little bit of a circle there right yeah um yeah so i don't think
[3:29:15 - 3:29:22] ▶
they have any um any bad feelings or bad intentions towards us i'm excited to see where all this goes
[3:29:22 - 3:29:31] ▶
i am maybe slightly more optimistic than you i think we'll never get the full i think like you know the
[3:29:31 - 3:29:38] ▶
quote-unquote disclosure moment people think of in their heads is actually just the start of an
[3:29:38 - 3:29:43] ▶
infinite number of further questions say you were shown a saucer and a hanger at area 51
[3:29:43 - 3:29:47] ▶
that would beget like millions of more trippy questions where you'd be like okay how does it
[3:29:48 - 3:29:53] ▶
fly where did it come from you know um so i think it's this never-ending sort of bottomless soup
[3:29:53 - 3:29:58] ▶
but i do think we're going to get more incontrovertible evidence uh over the next you know couple of
[3:29:58 - 3:30:05] ▶
decades well we've gotten prior to that yeah i mean it's inevitable to uh at some point other things are
[3:30:05 - 3:30:12] ▶
going to come out i mean you can't really keep stuff like that hidden forever yeah it's just not
[3:30:12 - 3:30:18] ▶
it's not practical um but to the extent that we do get information it's going to be it's going to be
[3:30:18 - 3:30:24] ▶
a fun time that's for sure i agree well cheers to that and dan thank you so much for thank you
[3:30:24 - 3:30:31] ▶
taking the time it really means a lot and i know you really never do this so the fact that you responded
[3:30:31 - 3:30:37] ▶
to me means so much and entrusted me with this uh and uh yeah i think uh people will be really
[3:30:37 - 3:30:43] ▶
amazed at the the story but also how you tell the story and how just kind of non nonplussed in a
[3:30:43 - 3:30:50] ▶
refreshing way you are yeah i want to thank your uh your crew here they're a good crew oh yeah they're
[3:30:50 - 3:30:57] ▶
great agreed i want to thank dan sherman for his time here and to you the audience for making it to
[3:30:57 - 3:31:04] ▶
the end again if you want a deeper dive on project preserve destiny check out our sub stack american
[3:31:04 - 3:31:09] ▶
alchemy magazine i'm linking that in the description and if you want to see this story get the airtime
[3:31:09 - 3:31:14] ▶
and attention it deserves please spread it far and wide spread it to people who can take action
[3:31:14 - 3:31:21] ▶
on its implications until next time i'm jesse michaels and this is american alchemy
[3:31:21 - 3:31:32] ▶
the chancech shortcuts as the road
[3:31:34 - 3:31:39] ▶
that i've found the area when it comes to people within mass shooting
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