367 segments
Ladies and gentlemen, a few months after I hosted a podcast featuring the Area 51 whistleblower Bob
[0:00:00 - 0:00:06] ▶
Lazar, I had met Bob again for a follow-up interview. During this interview, we discuss
[0:00:06 - 0:00:12] ▶
information that has never been brought forward in the public eye. Today, for the first time ever,
[0:00:12 - 0:00:20] ▶
Bob Lazar will reveal a brand new name in connection with S4. We've obtained this exclusive
[0:00:20 - 0:00:28] ▶
deleted scene from the documentary S4 The Bob Lazar Story, featuring a conversation between Bob Lazar
[0:00:28 - 0:00:37] ▶
and director Luigi Vendatelli. I was also able to ask Bob a few questions regarding his past, regarding
[0:00:37 - 0:00:44] ▶
John Lear and his relationship to John, regarding the liquid that he drank at S4. And just to be
[0:00:44 - 0:00:52] ▶
thorough, I also interviewed Luigi Vendatelli to fill us in a little bit more about why this pertinent,
[0:00:52 - 0:01:01] ▶
important piece of information was not featured in his documentary, and if this indeed will help
[0:01:01 - 0:01:08] ▶
move the needle. You know, there are certain pieces of information that I intentionally keep,
[0:01:08 - 0:01:19] ▶
there are several pieces of information that I keep to myself, and that the main reason is,
[0:01:20 - 0:01:26] ▶
you know, in case somebody does claim to be involved with the project or been there, whatever,
[0:01:26 - 0:01:32] ▶
they should be able to tell me those. And I need to keep a certain amount of those. There are other,
[0:01:32 - 0:01:42] ▶
some technical aspects that I'm just keeping to myself because I need to at this point in time.
[0:01:42 - 0:01:51] ▶
Um, but if you just essentially want something that I, you need me to give up just one little
[0:01:53 - 0:02:01] ▶
thing that I haven't, I will, I can tell you the person, uh, the name of another person that no one
[0:02:01 - 0:02:08] ▶
has heard of that worked there. His name was Chuck Payne.
[0:02:08 - 0:02:11] ▶
Let's pick up where we left off a little bit. Cause I had some follow-up questions, you know,
[0:02:11 - 0:02:23] ▶
for me that, that conversation was truly like a canon event in my life. Like that is, you know,
[0:02:24 - 0:02:33] ▶
it marked like a really important, I feel, um, turning point in terms of like, oh my God,
[0:02:33 - 0:02:40] ▶
like this is, if there's anybody out there that I've wanted to interview, it was like Bob Lazar,
[0:02:40 - 0:02:47] ▶
Travis Walton, like these are, you know, and I'm there now and this is kind of surreal to me,
[0:02:47 - 0:02:51] ▶
you know, and I've had time to sit back and ponder and kick myself for not asking certain
[0:02:52 - 0:02:57] ▶
questions. So it's not every day I get to, I get to come back and, uh, and have a redo.
[0:02:57 - 0:03:02] ▶
So I wanted to follow up on a few things that we never covered and that are covered in
[0:03:03 - 0:03:10] ▶
Project Gravitor because as you know, by the time that this podcast comes out, the movie
[0:03:10 - 0:03:14] ▶
will have aired. Hopefully. Yes, hopefully. Well, that's the deal. So this isn't coming
[0:03:14 - 0:03:19] ▶
out unless it airs. Okay. So, uh, rest assured the movie's out, you know, go rent it, go buy it,
[0:03:19 - 0:03:26] ▶
all that stuff. You, in the movie, there is, there are a few revelations that,
[0:03:26 - 0:03:33] ▶
that are pretty, pretty earth shattering in terms of this case for a lot of people. There's,
[0:03:33 - 0:03:40] ▶
you know, there's been a lot of contention on different topics surrounding your story and
[0:03:41 - 0:03:45] ▶
yourself and your history, but you came forward with a new name. Um, Chuck Payne. Yeah.
[0:03:45 - 0:03:55] ▶
What, can you tell me what made you withhold that name? There's, as I mentioned before,
[0:03:55 - 0:04:05] ▶
uh, I always intentionally withheld several things about us for, because Chuck Payne was
[0:04:05 - 0:04:11] ▶
a really well-known guy because he really stood out as this, I don't know, an overt security person.
[0:04:11 - 0:04:19] ▶
He was so, he played the part well. He was one of the security guards there. I have never mentioned
[0:04:19 - 0:04:27] ▶
that. This is brand new information. Yeah. I've never mentioned that to anybody. Have you ever
[0:04:27 - 0:04:31] ▶
mentioned this to George now? No, no. So this is, no, no one has officially the first time.
[0:04:31 - 0:04:37] ▶
No one has ever heard this. Correct. Yeah. Wow. So I, uh, yeah. And it was just one of,
[0:04:37 - 0:04:41] ▶
and the reason why Chuck was a very, of all the security guards around there were very tight lipped
[0:04:41 - 0:04:51] ▶
and quiet and they really had minimal interaction with them. Uh, Chuck was different and he stood out.
[0:04:51 - 0:05:02] ▶
And if you were at S4, you knew Chuck Payne. Well, you knew Chuck Payne. He just was one of those guys.
[0:05:02 - 0:05:10] ▶
Hey, how are you doing? I mean, a security guard would never talk to you or say anything,
[0:05:10 - 0:05:14] ▶
you know, he'd go, Hey Bob. I mean, he was the only one that was just a bit of an extrovert and, um,
[0:05:14 - 0:05:22] ▶
he stuck out and he did that to everybody. And I mean, if you were there, you knew, heard, or saw Chuck Payne.
[0:05:23 - 0:05:31] ▶
If somebody said, you know, name a guard's name, they'd say Chuck Payne. So, um, anyway, I get so many
[0:05:31 - 0:05:41] ▶
comments, emails, or people saying, yeah, I mean, you know, my, my grandfather worked there
[0:05:44 - 0:05:49] ▶
or so-and-so worked there. And it's like, you want to just hold back a couple minor details and said,
[0:05:49 - 0:05:56] ▶
okay, if he did tell me about this, tell me about this, tell me about this. Chuck Payne was just one
[0:05:56 - 0:06:02] ▶
of those things. Wow. It was just to hold back because if you were there, you would have now I've,
[0:06:02 - 0:06:08] ▶
by saying that I've now lost one other thing. Yeah. You know, so, um, but nothing is, you know,
[0:06:08 - 0:06:14] ▶
earth shattering critical. They're little things like that. Well, they seem, you know, maybe they're
[0:06:14 - 0:06:19] ▶
little things, but you know, for, for good old Chuck out there, he's going, what the fuck? Yeah.
[0:06:19 - 0:06:26] ▶
Come on, Bob. Sure, he doesn't appreciate that. Yeah. He's like, what the hell, Bob? Um,
[0:06:27 - 0:06:32] ▶
you think he's still around? Don't know. Yeah. Haven't looked into him. Didn't do any. No, I,
[0:06:33 - 0:06:40] ▶
I really haven't looked into anybody, but, uh, from those that did, it looked like Dennis Mariani died.
[0:06:40 - 0:06:46] ▶
Yeah. I've had, and I heard that. Yeah. I had pictures of a gravestone and, you know,
[0:06:46 - 0:06:51] ▶
people seem to, this guy, it connects all the dots. This looks like it was the guy. So,
[0:06:51 - 0:06:55] ▶
um, I don't know. We're all getting up in age. Yeah. It's possible. Was he older than you or
[0:06:56 - 0:07:01] ▶
younger than you? He was older than me. He was older than you, about a few years or?
[0:07:01 - 0:07:04] ▶
I, I couldn't tell you. Yeah. Not, not like terribly old or anything. No. Yeah. Okay. And this guy was,
[0:07:05 - 0:07:11] ▶
uh, was this the guy that roughed you up a little bit more than the rest of the security? Like,
[0:07:11 - 0:07:15] ▶
was this the guy who like really had it out for you or just, they all kind of equally?
[0:07:15 - 0:07:20] ▶
I would, yeah. That's the, that's why I crossed my eyes at that. Yeah. I mean,
[0:07:20 - 0:07:25] ▶
they're kind of all from the same mold. Yeah. So that's stress inoculation.
[0:07:25 - 0:07:29] ▶
Yeah. I, I don't know how, I don't know how things went there with the guards. Cause we were
[0:07:31 - 0:07:37] ▶
kind of separated from them. Um, but it seemed like he, he was just on a different level with them.
[0:07:37 - 0:07:44] ▶
Yeah. Um, I don't know if he was in charge of them. I don't know if he was, he wasn't just one of
[0:07:44 - 0:07:51] ▶
them. He was a special entity in himself. So I don't know what, what his rank was, but he was, he was just
[0:07:51 - 0:08:00] ▶
a different guy. Yeah. And with the name like Chuck Payne. Yeah. And that's what was funny about it.
[0:08:00 - 0:08:07] ▶
Yeah. I was surprised when he let that out with me in an interview. This was ha this happened like
[0:08:07 - 0:08:14] ▶
over three years ago. So I've been holding this, you know, we've been holding this to ourselves for
[0:08:14 - 0:08:19] ▶
a long time and kind of an exciting moment. And we're like, do we, do we put this out there?
[0:08:19 - 0:08:25] ▶
Uh, we put, we created the first version, which you saw and it was in there and everybody liked it.
[0:08:25 - 0:08:33] ▶
Everybody thought it was great. And then we started looking at it again and thought we,
[0:08:33 - 0:08:40] ▶
we didn't expand on it in the film. We just put a little bit in there. He says a name of somebody
[0:08:40 - 0:08:45] ▶
and that's it. So we had some people say it's kind of a non, it's not necessary in there. If you're
[0:08:45 - 0:08:54] ▶
not going to expand on it, it's just going to piss people off that you put something in there and
[0:08:54 - 0:09:00] ▶
then there's nothing else. So we decided to take it out. Before we continue, I'd like to say that
[0:09:00 - 0:09:06] ▶
the Chuck Payne that you are going to find, should you Google this name is not the Chuck Payne
[0:09:06 - 0:09:11] ▶
as mentioned in the interview with Bob that worked at S4. It is a Senator and he would probably appreciate
[0:09:11 - 0:09:17] ▶
if we didn't blow up his inbox. Now, that being said, I have done some due diligent research on the name
[0:09:17 - 0:09:22] ▶
Chuck Payne. And there are many that come up from retired army to intelligence. Your guess is as good
[0:09:22 - 0:09:31] ▶
as mine. We were in Las Vegas when that happened and we were shooting part, a lot, something that's
[0:09:31 - 0:09:37] ▶
not in the film is all the footage that we have with Bob Lazar in the desert with a DeLorean time machine.
[0:09:37 - 0:09:44] ▶
That was the time that we went out to Las Vegas, the whole crew of Motivo, Art My Crew and
[0:09:45 - 0:09:50] ▶
Project Gravitore crew. Basically, we went out and filmed with a DeLorean time machine in the desert
[0:09:50 - 0:09:56] ▶
and we had rented an Airbnb in Las Vegas, which is a giant mansion so that we could all sleep in the
[0:09:56 - 0:10:03] ▶
same house. So we were like a whole bunch of people. And it was in the middle of an afternoon,
[0:10:03 - 0:10:09] ▶
I was showing Bob some stuff and I'll never forget. He was so, because also gave us an opportunity to
[0:10:09 - 0:10:17] ▶
hang out with Bob Lazar while we were there. And I was showing him some of the updates we were making,
[0:10:17 - 0:10:23] ▶
some of the progress we were making in building S4. And he was really impressed. And, you know,
[0:10:23 - 0:10:28] ▶
we were sitting there and I said, you know, I don't want to push you. And I don't want to,
[0:10:28 - 0:10:33] ▶
I don't know if there's anything that you've ever not said, but it would be so incredible if ever
[0:10:33 - 0:10:41] ▶
there's something you'd want to share that you've never shared before. I didn't say, you know, you
[0:10:41 - 0:10:46] ▶
have to give us something. And he immediately looked at me and said, you guys are really doing
[0:10:46 - 0:10:51] ▶
an incredible job. And I think there's something I can say. I said, okay. He says, we'll talk about that
[0:10:51 - 0:11:00] ▶
whenever we have a chance. And that's what happened. The really interesting thing about
[0:11:00 - 0:11:05] ▶
this film and this project, this is while you and I have known each other, you brought to my attention
[0:11:05 - 0:11:11] ▶
that a pilot had reached out to you. And this came out after my film came out that we, you were holding
[0:11:11 - 0:11:17] ▶
it tight. I was holding it tight. He was a co-pilot for EG&G flying the Janet flights into Groom Lake
[0:11:17 - 0:11:25] ▶
between 87 and 91, something like that. And that's exactly when Bob would have been there.
[0:11:25 - 0:11:31] ▶
And he said he knew Dennis Mariani. Speaking of Dennis Mariani, you know,
[0:11:31 - 0:11:36] ▶
we touched on this a little bit in our previous conversation. We touched on the fact that I'd
[0:11:36 - 0:11:42] ▶
reached out to a Janet airlines co-pilot that knew Dennis and that, you know, was also informed of his
[0:11:42 - 0:11:49] ▶
passing and said that, you know, he'd met Dennis over half a dozen times and had exchanged with him
[0:11:49 - 0:11:55] ▶
just sort of, you know, regular rapport. It proved one thing. There is a Dennis Mariani did exist.
[0:11:55 - 0:12:02] ▶
There was a Dennis Mariani that was flying on Janet jets going to Groom Lake. It proved,
[0:12:03 - 0:12:10] ▶
look, proved that's a big word. It, it helps the argument. That's the better way of framing it.
[0:12:10 - 0:12:17] ▶
It helps the argument that that could have been reality. And Bob was the guy who met, who mentioned
[0:12:17 - 0:12:23] ▶
Dennis Mariani. Something, something really interesting about Dennis Mariani that I don't
[0:12:23 - 0:12:30] ▶
think most people piece together is, you know, after you came out, you know, through George Knapp and
[0:12:30 - 0:12:42] ▶
um, he called you, right? He called you to meet up with you. Yeah. How long, how long after was that?
[0:12:42 - 0:12:53] ▶
He called to meet at the Union Plaza Hotel. Um, I,
[0:12:56 - 0:13:01] ▶
it wasn't that long, but I, I, I couldn't, I just,
[0:13:03 - 0:13:06] ▶
couldn't have been weeks or months. Yeah. No, it wasn't months. Hmm. I don't think it was months.
[0:13:06 - 0:13:13] ▶
Okay. So it was pretty soon after. Yeah. It was, it was definitely relatively soon after.
[0:13:14 - 0:13:19] ▶
And what exactly did he say to you again? Oh, he was like, let's meet up at the Union Plaza Hotel.
[0:13:19 - 0:13:26] ▶
Yeah. I, I don't, I don't, at this point, I don't remember the exact conversation, but yeah. And I
[0:13:26 - 0:13:32] ▶
don't remember the reason he gave me, but it was, yeah, to meet at the Union Plaza Hotel.
[0:13:32 - 0:13:37] ▶
Now, I mean, between us, like, you gotta call.
[0:13:37 - 0:13:42] ▶
I was kind of excited. Really? For that. Yeah. Because, um, he sounded different.
[0:13:42 - 0:13:48] ▶
He sounded like, you know, it wasn't like, hey, let's meet. It's like, hey, Bob, you know,
[0:13:50 - 0:13:54] ▶
let's meet at the Union Plaza Hotel. It was a different, it was a different tone of him. Right.
[0:13:55 - 0:14:00] ▶
So I thought, okay. Um, I don't know, maybe he's gonna be, I, I don't know.
[0:14:00 - 0:14:07] ▶
I know you don't want to speculate. Yeah. But it's always why I keep stopping myself, but.
[0:14:07 - 0:14:13] ▶
And I, I appreciate that. Um, but also what other reasons are there?
[0:14:13 - 0:14:19] ▶
I don't know. He might be sympathetic to my attitude or something like that.
[0:14:19 - 0:14:23] ▶
Right. So, you know, I thought, yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah.
[0:14:23 - 0:14:28] ▶
So I caught, you know, I said this time I want witnesses, had friends come with me,
[0:14:28 - 0:14:33] ▶
you know, going first. That way I, you know, looked, walked around, looked around.
[0:14:33 - 0:14:37] ▶
I said, there he is. Gene Huff. I said, that's Dennis Mariani right there.
[0:14:37 - 0:14:41] ▶
So he had eyes on him too. And yeah, and, uh, yeah, that's what that was about.
[0:14:41 - 0:14:47] ▶
And then you walked up to him and he kind of ignored you or he didn't kind of ignore me.
[0:14:47 - 0:14:52] ▶
Yeah. But as I walked in, I saw other faces that I've seen at S4 walk by me coming from his direction.
[0:14:53 - 0:15:01] ▶
And I, I even stopped Gene in the hallway and said, something's wrong. Those guys look familiar.
[0:15:02 - 0:15:08] ▶
They look like security from S4. And then when I went up to Dennis Mariani, he wouldn't even look at me.
[0:15:08 - 0:15:14] ▶
I stood right behind him. I stood right next to him and he just like, I wasn't even there. I went,
[0:15:15 - 0:15:21] ▶
Dennis and no response. So yeah. Okay. This is weird. And, uh,
[0:15:21 - 0:15:27] ▶
you know, I just turned around Gene and said, yeah, this whole thing is, it reeks.
[0:15:28 - 0:15:33] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. Something's wrong.
[0:15:33 - 0:15:35] ▶
Yeah. The faces from S4, do you, do you like remember at all what department they were from?
[0:15:35 - 0:15:40] ▶
Or do you like, are they security?
[0:15:40 - 0:15:42] ▶
No, I think they were security.
[0:15:42 - 0:15:43] ▶
I think they were security. Yeah.
[0:15:43 - 0:15:44] ▶
Yeah. It wasn't Chuck.
[0:15:44 - 0:15:45] ▶
An old buddy, Chuck. He wouldn't let that slide. Um, wow. Okay. So, you know, for me, when I hear this,
[0:15:46 - 0:15:54] ▶
there's a, there's a big hump that people have a hard time getting over.
[0:15:58 - 0:16:02] ▶
And the hump is why hire Bob, right? Why hire Bob if he, if he's an acquaintance of John Lear,
[0:16:02 - 0:16:12] ▶
right? That's like the big thing that people have a hard time getting over.
[0:16:12 - 0:16:15] ▶
Yeah. A lot of people think that because they think if you're vetting someone for like a really,
[0:16:16 - 0:16:23] ▶
really top secret sort of reverse engineering, you know, job at S4, why would someone knowingly,
[0:16:23 - 0:16:32] ▶
you know, who, who's a friend of this person who's, who's quite loud, you know, and, and overt with his,
[0:16:32 - 0:16:39] ▶
you know, um, conspiracies, why would we hire someone who's associated with someone like that?
[0:16:39 - 0:16:45] ▶
Well, look at, well, look at what John Lear was talking about at that time. He said,
[0:16:46 - 0:16:49] ▶
there is over a billion aliens living in the mountains outside of Las Vegas,
[0:16:49 - 0:16:54] ▶
that there is an entire civilization in the sun and that the sun isn't actually hot. It's some
[0:16:54 - 0:17:00] ▶
special effect and that you can breathe on Venus. I mean, all this nonsense. And I tell John, he was
[0:17:00 - 0:17:06] ▶
crazy to his face as that. This is all, you know, absolute nonsense. So I don't see. Yeah. I don't see
[0:17:06 - 0:17:13] ▶
people taking John Lear as serious at that time. Now, before that,
[0:17:13 - 0:17:19] ▶
you know, whether years or whatever, John was a different person. And, um, you know,
[0:17:19 - 0:17:25] ▶
but as time went on, the things he said got crazier and crazier and, um, you know,
[0:17:25 - 0:17:33] ▶
I don't really see that being a threat to them.
[0:17:33 - 0:17:35] ▶
Yeah. So, well, my point was, I think that, you know, maybe, and this is complete speculation,
[0:17:35 - 0:17:46] ▶
but it's the only sort of piece of puzzle that I can see fitting or at least help fit. Maybe
[0:17:46 - 0:17:52] ▶
Dennis had something with you being hired, you know, maybe he had something to do with you being hired.
[0:17:52 - 0:17:59] ▶
Why would Dennis want me hired? Well, if anything, it was, it was Teller.
[0:17:59 - 0:18:05] ▶
Right. Teller, obviously. Now he obviously had weight. Yes. And, um, he said, Hey, there's this
[0:18:05 - 0:18:13] ▶
kid in Los Alamos and, uh, to give him a shot or whatever, you know, he would have said. Yeah. And
[0:18:13 - 0:18:21] ▶
maybe that's all that was needed. Yeah. Maybe I just lucked out. But, uh, I mean, why would Dennis
[0:18:21 - 0:18:26] ▶
want me hired? Well, maybe Dennis wanted to blow the lid off this thing. You know, he saw what you
[0:18:26 - 0:18:33] ▶
did. He for sure watched KLAS. He was, you know, oh my God. And then he reached out to you and not in
[0:18:33 - 0:18:42] ▶
a threatening way, in a way that seemed sympathetic, you know? So for me, if you had a guy on the inside
[0:18:42 - 0:18:50] ▶
who wanted to blow the lid off this thing and you knew that he was associated with someone who
[0:18:50 - 0:18:55] ▶
knew very well, you know, the conspiracy world and everything else, you know, maybe he had something
[0:18:55 - 0:19:01] ▶
to do with like, yeah, you know, this guy, bring this guy in here or something. I don't know. It's a
[0:19:01 - 0:19:05] ▶
wild grasp at straws. I do understand. It's, it's kind of a long shot. Yeah. But I mean,
[0:19:05 - 0:19:11] ▶
it's not impossible and, and really who knows, right? Who knows why they hired me? Yeah. There's
[0:19:11 - 0:19:17] ▶
a lot, a lot of more, a lot more qualified people than myself. But, um, you know, if they're looking
[0:19:17 - 0:19:25] ▶
for somebody really outside the box, that's not going to follow protocol and maybe that's what they
[0:19:25 - 0:19:31] ▶
were finally fed up with. We're not getting anywhere with this and let's just get somebody a left field.
[0:19:31 - 0:19:37] ▶
And I mean, that's probably the reason, like, I mean, uh, much more likely than, you know,
[0:19:37 - 0:19:43] ▶
than my harebrained, uh, conspiracy, but I just, we'll never know. Well, yeah, it could be, I'm sure
[0:19:43 - 0:19:50] ▶
it's most likely something neither of us are thinking about. I was just so compelled with the
[0:19:50 - 0:19:55] ▶
idea that this guy, Dennis, who the same guy who'd stare at you for 20 minutes in that ride to S4,
[0:19:55 - 0:20:02] ▶
menacingly. That was creepy. Yeah. I still have a picture of that in my mind. But he's also-
[0:20:02 - 0:20:08] ▶
Sitting bouncing on the bus looking at me going, can't you look at something else?
[0:20:08 - 0:20:12] ▶
Weird. Yeah. But it was a new job and, uh, you know, unusual circumstances. You just don't want
[0:20:12 - 0:20:18] ▶
to say anything. Yeah. So we just kind of- Yeah. Weird and awkward that 20 minutes was.
[0:20:18 - 0:20:24] ▶
You can't, and there's not even a window to look out of it. So you just look at the back of the
[0:20:24 - 0:20:28] ▶
driver's head. So. But he's also the guy that was like, hey, come see this launch outside. Come see
[0:20:28 - 0:20:35] ▶
this test flight. Right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. That doesn't seem, that seems out of character for a guy who-
[0:20:35 - 0:20:40] ▶
I don't know about that. Really? I mean, it was probably important for me to see the,
[0:20:42 - 0:20:46] ▶
you know, you have to see how, look, we're- Yeah. We're back engineering power and propulsion. Sure.
[0:20:46 - 0:20:52] ▶
And here's it in operation. Yeah. So what, what I don't get is why we weren't informed earlier on.
[0:20:52 - 0:20:58] ▶
That's right. Said, you know, there's going to be a test at two o'clock. You guys get your stuff done.
[0:20:58 - 0:21:02] ▶
Be out there in the big hangar. And you know that. But instead, the craft was already outside
[0:21:03 - 0:21:09] ▶
and Dennis came in, come on, you guys. So it's like it was a last minute thought. Now that's what makes
[0:21:09 - 0:21:14] ▶
less sense. Yeah. But that might be a part of the reason, like to keep it hush hush and kind
[0:21:14 - 0:21:20] ▶
of don't tell anybody until it happens type deal, maybe. Compartmentalization and all. Yeah. Yeah.
[0:21:20 - 0:21:26] ▶
And again, there might be another reason that neither of us are thinking about. Sure. Like,
[0:21:26 - 0:21:29] ▶
maybe we're not supposed to know how it got out of the hangar. Ah. You know, I mean,
[0:21:29 - 0:21:34] ▶
something bizarre like that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I had that ruminating,
[0:21:34 - 0:21:40] ▶
like something about this Dennis Mariani character is, uh, enigmatic to say the least,
[0:21:40 - 0:21:46] ▶
you know, from. A lot of people latched on to him, you know, spend a lot of time looking for him.
[0:21:46 - 0:21:51] ▶
I guess they finally found him, but I mean, for years, people, for some reason, that name really
[0:21:51 - 0:21:56] ▶
clicked and people went after him because that's, that's really the guy that would know a lot.
[0:21:56 - 0:22:02] ▶
Certainly I'm a lot more than I do. Yeah. Um, I don't know anybody, see, nobody tried to care or
[0:22:02 - 0:22:08] ▶
track down Barry and, um, he'd be great for technical information. I'd love to know everything
[0:22:08 - 0:22:16] ▶
Barry knew. Barry, if you're listening, please reach out. Could you imagine? Um,
[0:22:16 - 0:22:24] ▶
what do you think Barry's reaction was to you? Boy, I don't know. You know, I, when I was really
[0:22:26 - 0:22:32] ▶
concerned is that Barry would be, I mean, they'd focus some of their anger on Barry,
[0:22:32 - 0:22:39] ▶
you know, that, that he'd have, there'd be a price to pay, um, because he was training me and,
[0:22:40 - 0:22:46] ▶
you know, and, and I don't know. I just, I hope that didn't happen. Yeah. Because it certainly
[0:22:46 - 0:22:52] ▶
would, wasn't my intention at all to cause trouble for anybody there. Um, of course. Yeah. But, um,
[0:22:52 - 0:22:58] ▶
I don't know, I'm sure he wouldn't have been pleased about it.
[0:22:58 - 0:23:03] ▶
Yeah. After all, he was so excited to have a new partner.
[0:23:03 - 0:23:06] ▶
Yeah. I mean, I kind of hinted around to Barry about, you know, wow, this is
[0:23:08 - 0:23:14] ▶
all of this shouldn't be kept secret. You know, Barry never really wanted to talk about it, but
[0:23:16 - 0:23:22] ▶
it seemed like he was, he agreed with me, you know, without saying so. And I, you know, in the back
[0:23:22 - 0:23:29] ▶
of my mind, I kind of hope that Barry might even follow me, you know, out and, uh, you know, after
[0:23:29 - 0:23:36] ▶
it was all out, maybe we just suddenly hear another voice from S4, but, uh, no, that was all a pipe dream.
[0:23:36 - 0:23:43] ▶
That must've been, um, pretty disheartening. Yeah. To come out and to not have a follow up. Did you expect?
[0:23:43 - 0:23:54] ▶
You know, I kind of did. I think I just hoped so much it turned into expectation. Yeah. But, um,
[0:23:56 - 0:24:03] ▶
I don't know if it was a realistic hope. I just, it was worth a shot. I think, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
[0:24:03 - 0:24:10] ▶
You know, I'd, I'd feel hopeful as well. I think the same hopeful sentiment was probably shared by,
[0:24:10 - 0:24:17] ▶
you know, the likes of David Grush as well, who, you know, although went through a sort of
[0:24:17 - 0:24:21] ▶
Dobser approved whistleblowing, um, still, you know, gave up his pension and, and put his
[0:24:21 - 0:24:29] ▶
own credibility on the line by coming out and saying that, Hey, we've recovered non-human biologics
[0:24:30 - 0:24:35] ▶
and we have craft and we're working on them. I think he probably felt the same, you know? And after that
[0:24:35 - 0:24:40] ▶
hearing. Yeah. I mean, hats off to that guy. You know, I, I, I respect him for doing that for sure.
[0:24:40 - 0:24:46] ▶
Yeah. And then crickets for him too, though. Yeah. You know, nobody from the program came out. Do you
[0:24:46 - 0:24:53] ▶
think that's due to, um, people's fear or is it due to, you know, the, uh, the actual shutting down
[0:24:53 - 0:25:02] ▶
of the Thomas people or a bit of both? I, that's tough to say. There's no doubt. There's a fear aspect
[0:25:02 - 0:25:09] ▶
to it. Yeah. Um, but other, as far as shutting down people physically. Yeah. Um, I don't know. I
[0:25:09 - 0:25:19] ▶
don't know. I would certainly lean more towards fear. I think they just put the fear of God on them and
[0:25:19 - 0:25:23] ▶
Boom. Well, 20 minutes in, I think those are the questions I wanted answered.
[0:25:28 - 0:25:34] ▶
You know, they've been, I mean, they've been, I've been, I've been ruminating with this, you know?
[0:25:34 - 0:25:38] ▶
And I was like, ah, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where every time I have a guest
[0:25:38 - 0:25:42] ▶
here, the, um, the line of questioning that I, that I try to have is because of the interview we had
[0:25:42 - 0:25:51] ▶
is the second they leave. What do I go? Everything comes to mind.
[0:25:52 - 0:25:56] ▶
What do I go? I wish I would have asked them this.
[0:25:56 - 0:25:59] ▶
Right. And I really wanted to cover, especially, uh, the Chuck Payne stuff,
[0:26:00 - 0:26:03] ▶
which I thought was really interesting. Um,
[0:26:03 - 0:26:05] ▶
you know, maybe someone will start looking for him now. I mean, like they, if they put the effort they
[0:26:06 - 0:26:11] ▶
did into Dennis Mariani, they'll, they'll find him.
[0:26:11 - 0:26:14] ▶
I gotta say, I looked myself. I tried to research it myself. Uh, unfortunately, there is a governor,
[0:26:14 - 0:26:21] ▶
I believe by the same name.
[0:26:21 - 0:26:22] ▶
I think Luigi told me that or something.
[0:26:25 - 0:26:28] ▶
And it's not him. Like we've gotten confirmation. It's not him. We showed you, I think we showed
[0:26:29 - 0:26:33] ▶
you a picture as well. And you're like, no. And, uh, so don't blow him up. Don't go blow his phone
[0:26:33 - 0:26:39] ▶
up. Don't, you know, don't go threatening him or calling him out on social media. He's got his
[0:26:39 - 0:26:44] ▶
Yeah. Like there's nothing. I mean, Chuck Payne was doing his job.
[0:26:45 - 0:26:48] ▶
That's all. And he's doing it well. He just said, you know, so you, you can't,
[0:26:48 - 0:26:52] ▶
you can't harbor ill will towards these guys.
[0:26:53 - 0:26:55] ▶
You really can't. I mean, the guys that set up the program and whatnot, it's a different,
[0:26:56 - 0:27:01] ▶
different story, but you know, security guards are just being security guards.
[0:27:01 - 0:27:05] ▶
Yeah. Do you ever feel, I mean, and this is something you've probably actually talked
[0:27:05 - 0:27:11] ▶
about in the past, but, um, you know, there was, there was a lot of like fear, stress,
[0:27:11 - 0:27:19] ▶
inoculation, but there was also like, they gave you substances, right? They gave you tests or they
[0:27:19 - 0:27:26] ▶
had you drink this weird, opaque yellow fluid that tastes like pine salt. Um, did you ever feel like that
[0:27:26 - 0:27:33] ▶
might've just been part of the conditioning to have, to have you think that this was all just
[0:27:33 - 0:27:39] ▶
no, no, some weird hallucination or something?
[0:27:39 - 0:27:42] ▶
No, no weird hallucination. And that was, no, that, I mean, the thing tasted more like vitamin
[0:27:42 - 0:27:47] ▶
B than anything. It was just an immune system booster. Cause they had just done a whole, uh,
[0:27:47 - 0:27:52] ▶
And they said, there are just materials here. We have no clue as to what they are or what
[0:27:55 - 0:28:02] ▶
interactions they have with the human body. So it's, it was just a, you know, a typical booster.
[0:28:02 - 0:28:09] ▶
Immune system booster. But no, there's nothing that made me.
[0:28:09 - 0:28:13] ▶
To think of that at all.
[0:28:15 - 0:28:15] ▶
It's just, yeah. I mean, this time is all, you know, we're talking about MK Ultra, all this type of stuff
[0:28:15 - 0:28:21] ▶
as well, but it's really easy to know when something is real versus when something isn't
[0:28:21 - 0:28:27] ▶
real. And when this, you know, people bring this up a lot and they bring up the, uh, oh,
[0:28:27 - 0:28:32] ▶
they probably just messed with his head. I'm like, no.
[0:28:32 - 0:28:33] ▶
No, they didn't mess with my head. It was a hundred percent clear every single time I was there.
[0:28:33 - 0:28:40] ▶
There is no doubt at all.
[0:28:40 - 0:28:42] ▶
I'm, and there's no doubt in my mind as well, because I think, you know, we're all smart enough
[0:28:42 - 0:28:46] ▶
to know what's real and what isn't real.
[0:28:46 - 0:28:47] ▶
That being said, you know, that still wouldn't stop them from tampering, you know, somehow
[0:28:48 - 0:28:55] ▶
with your memory or, you know, your mind while you're there. Like, that's something that I feel
[0:28:55 - 0:29:00] ▶
like the dark recesses of these, you know, government factions wouldn't stop at doing.
[0:29:00 - 0:29:07] ▶
Is that ever considered across your mind that they might've been still.
[0:29:07 - 0:29:10] ▶
Well, yeah. The way they screw with you by, you know, inserting incorrect and misleading
[0:29:11 - 0:29:16] ▶
information into what they're telling you. Yeah.
[0:29:16 - 0:29:19] ▶
And it's specific to each person. So if they start hearing that from somewhere else,
[0:29:19 - 0:29:24] ▶
they know exactly who said it. Right. Yeah. So, um,
[0:29:24 - 0:29:27] ▶
Yeah. And, um, yeah, you never know. And this is why I draw such a hard line between what I work on,
[0:29:28 - 0:29:37] ▶
what I saw, what I touched and, uh, you know, what I was told or read. So you, you never know about
[0:29:37 - 0:29:44] ▶
any of the reading material. You never know about any of the hearsay or anything you're being taught
[0:29:45 - 0:29:49] ▶
if that's, it's real, unless it's backed up by, by hands on stuff. Yeah. And I'm sure there's a lot of nonsense.
[0:29:49 - 0:29:55] ▶
Yeah. No, that was in there. Oh, definitely. Definitely. I would, I would absolutely agree with that.
[0:29:56 - 0:30:01] ▶
Especially if they're trying to keep a lid on things, they gotta throw some,
[0:30:01 - 0:30:04] ▶
you know, a wrench in the system here. They gotta, they gotta throw you off the scent a little bit,
[0:30:05 - 0:30:08] ▶
some red herrings and whatnot. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Um,
[0:30:08 - 0:30:12] ▶
That's something even Barry mentioned. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Oh,
[0:30:12 - 0:30:17] ▶
I didn't know that. Yeah. So Barry, cause he seemed like the type that was really excited about this
[0:30:17 - 0:30:21] ▶
stuff too. Like when. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. He really was. He was so, what he was so excited to
[0:30:21 - 0:30:27] ▶
have somebody to work. So it must've been a while between he had a partner before that, because he
[0:30:27 - 0:30:33] ▶
was so excited to show me. It's like, you know, you, you got some new cool stuff on Christmas and you
[0:30:33 - 0:30:39] ▶
want to show your best friend something, wait, come here, check this out. You know? So I, I remember
[0:30:39 - 0:30:44] ▶
that excitement. That was really cool. Yeah. He got to brief you too, which is kind of sweet.
[0:30:44 - 0:30:48] ▶
Um, do you think he was at all excited, obviously from like the physics side, but was he excited?
[0:30:49 - 0:30:54] ▶
Did you guys ever discuss like any of the blue documents stuff together? No. He was, was he
[0:30:55 - 0:31:01] ▶
briefed on that? I, I don't know. You don't know? I don't know. So something came up? No. Huh? No, we, I mean,
[0:31:01 - 0:31:08] ▶
you know, we had two things to do and, uh, and, and that was it, you know, it's the power and
[0:31:08 - 0:31:16] ▶
propulsion system and it's, you know, uh, you know, directive one was be able to duplicate this
[0:31:16 - 0:31:24] ▶
with existing materials and directive to be able to disable this system from a distance with existing
[0:31:24 - 0:31:32] ▶
materials, no budget limits, any other one. Just find a way to do it. I think we've done either of
[0:31:32 - 0:31:40] ▶
those. Probably the second one. I hope we did the second. I think the second one's more important.
[0:31:40 - 0:31:45] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Ugh. That's a weird thought. Um, maybe my last question here,
[0:31:45 - 0:31:55] ▶
you know, out of the three briefings that you were, um, allowed to peruse during your document readings,
[0:31:55 - 0:32:06] ▶
you had Galileo, which was propulsion using gravity. You had sidekick, which was the weaponization of this
[0:32:06 - 0:32:17] ▶
technology. And then you had looking glass, which was something to do with time dilation and peering into
[0:32:17 - 0:32:26] ▶
time somehow forward, backwards, what have you.
[0:32:26 - 0:32:29] ▶
To me, you know, I've spoken to some people who have a sordid history in, let's say some of these black
[0:32:32 - 0:32:42] ▶
black programs. Time seems like the big one. Yeah. But see, I, I thought about this, you know,
[0:32:42 - 0:32:50] ▶
which, which one, if you had your choice, would you really be involved with? No, I'd stick where I was
[0:32:50 - 0:32:55] ▶
because with gravity, you get time. Right. But that's what I mean. I feel like gravity is,
[0:32:55 - 0:33:01] ▶
is used in all three of these. Yeah. But there's the machine that makes the gravity. I see. So you're
[0:33:01 - 0:33:07] ▶
part of that and then you're nowhere unless you can power it. So if you've got the gravity propulsion
[0:33:07 - 0:33:14] ▶
and the power system, the other two, you got, you got the other two, those will come in time,
[0:33:14 - 0:33:19] ▶
but you can start with those two and you'll never get to that one. So yeah, I was, I was where I wanted
[0:33:19 - 0:33:25] ▶
to be. Do you think we succeeded in at least, you know, using gravity in that way and to manipulate
[0:33:25 - 0:33:35] ▶
time or to peer into time in some way? I don't know. I mean, you don't see it anywhere.
[0:33:35 - 0:33:40] ▶
If, if so, they're keeping it well, well covered. I've heard some, um, some,
[0:33:41 - 0:33:46] ▶
so people I know that have spoken to witnesses that are apparently in the program have talked about
[0:33:47 - 0:33:53] ▶
some weird interaction with a sphere that they called like looking glass, which was a sphere that
[0:33:53 - 0:33:58] ▶
they had to interact with consciously and could peer into time through consciousness-based interaction
[0:33:58 - 0:34:06] ▶
somehow. Wow. Okay. Um, I was just wondering, like for me, like that, you know, you might have seen
[0:34:06 - 0:34:12] ▶
maybe the genesis of this program or at least like the baby steps of it. Maybe that's where we're at
[0:34:12 - 0:34:17] ▶
now. It's like, that would be cool. Right? Yeah. That would be cool. I can only hope something like that's
[0:34:17 - 0:34:23] ▶
happened. Yeah. Hopefully that, and not so much the directed energy stuff and all that other weird,
[0:34:23 - 0:34:28] ▶
you know, weaponizing of, of alien technology. That's always going to be number one,
[0:34:28 - 0:34:33] ▶
you know, you gotta let that go. Yeah. All right. Well, Bob Lazar, um, thank you so much for doing
[0:34:34 - 0:34:40] ▶
this. I know you had a long day today and I, I really appreciate your time and I appreciate you
[0:34:40 - 0:34:44] ▶
candidly answering these questions and, you know, it's not, uh, it's not always probably the most pleasant
[0:34:44 - 0:34:49] ▶
thing to go through all this, but I, I do appreciate you, uh, taking the time and, uh,
[0:34:49 - 0:34:54] ▶
congratulations on, you know, getting your story out there through Project Gravitor and S4, the Bob
[0:34:54 - 0:35:00] ▶
Lazar story. And I look forward to seeing how the world changes once again after this story airs.
[0:35:00 - 0:35:06] ▶
Well, thanks for letting me come back. Thanks, Bob.
[0:35:06 - 0:35:08] ▶