1,358 segments
What's up everybody? We got a good one here with Chris Ramsey. This is my second episode with Chris.
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The first one came out for episode 347 back in October. So if you have not hit that subscribe
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button yet, please hit that right now. It is a huge, huge help to the channel. We are putting
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out multiple episodes every single week. Enjoy.
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All right, we're on air. What is this sorcery you're doing to me now?
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During the break, I had you... I want you to think of this word, okay? You got a word you're thinking of?
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Yeah, yeah. Don't tell anybody this word. Just keep it in your mind. You got a word?
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It's in my mind and my brain. All right, we're going to see if I can guess this word, okay?
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All right, look at me. I don't want to look at you.
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Look at me. All right. Hold on. I'm going to write it weird so you can't...
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Are you remote viewing this? Yes.
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Okay. So is this... Tell me, is this...
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Was this on your browser history recently? Was this... Yes or no?
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I'm not giving you any... You can tell me yes or no. Was this on your browser
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history? Would this... I don't... I don't think so.
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Oh, okay. I think you would know.
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I mean, I think about... Have you ever been inside my head?
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Is this... Well, I'm trying.
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Is this... It's about to be.
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It's kind of... I'm getting a... Is this wild?
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This is a little wild, right?
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Like... Like wild like it's nuts or wild like...
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No, not like it's nuts.
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Like out in the wild.
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I know you're giving me a clue. Okay.
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No, no. I'm asking you. Which one do you mean?
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Okay. Hold on. There's a...
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That's actually a very...
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Hold on. Hold on. There's a...
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Okay. I think we know where we're going.
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I think we all know what this is on the count of three.
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I want you to say it out loud.
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I don't even remember.
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Oh, we were at Los Alamos.
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I was just telling you before we took the break there.
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When I talked with Jesse, like his history on Los Alamos,
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That was in episode 240.
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Like, there's a whole fucking rabbit hole there.
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But the idea that we made something that could destroy ourselves.
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And then after that, because Los Alamos creates that, you know,
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the war ends as a result of that being used and, you know,
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Europe being taken care of.
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And then after that, from, you know, the late 1940s through the present day,
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all these events happen.
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It's not to say we didn't have previous events like we were saying
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that were written down about aliens in the past or whatever,
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but there was this uptick and these patterns that formed,
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including a lot of these things appearing where there are nukes
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or where there are places where this is held.
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Move this way, sorry.
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Not just nukes, high-powered radar, even lasers.
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I mean, the tech that we're testing out in these test sites,
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obviously we're testing nukes,
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but there's so much other technology that's being tested there as well.
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And people often forget that.
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It's like that's where the cusp of new technology is coming from.
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So if you were to monitor this planet, like that's where you would be, right?
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And so when people say, why is it only in America?
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First of all, we all know it's not only in America,
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but there is a significant amount in America.
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And part of that is due to the fact that America is the world's superpower
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in terms of like military and tech and as far as we know.
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And so, you know, yeah, that would be a reason.
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Now, here's the other thing, though, is that China keeps everything locked down.
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So does Russia kind of, but China more.
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And so, you know, we just have really big mouths about this stuff too.
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Like we're out here saying, whoa, there's UFOs.
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Dude, for all we know, there might be a ton of crash retrievals over in China.
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You would never know.
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James Fox has reported on the Russia and China thing a lot,
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like the little bit that he was even able to get.
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Well, you have to think like we have compartmentalized sort of projects
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that if you were to work on a UFO, for instance,
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and this brings us to like Bob Lazar,
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he would be off with his partner working on propulsion.
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You'd have another team working on the metal of the craft
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or on weaponry or on whatnot.
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And those people would not be allowed to talk to each other.
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And we don't have to look further than our own space programs.
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I have a friend who worked at SpaceX,
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and he was working on a part of the rocket.
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He wasn't allowed to know what that part was for that he was working on.
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And he's like, you know, I would probably be able to do far greater work
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if you just told me what this was for.
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And they go, don't worry about it.
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And it's going on a rocket.
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It's not, you know, but that's how compartmentalized systems work.
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So it's not specifically for UFOs,
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but it's in all types of defense technology sort of projects.
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And so when you're looking at the UFO space specifically,
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we have all these compartmentalized things going on.
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Well, China, they're just like,
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all right, here's our 500 best engineers.
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Talk amongst yourselves.
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And then bring it all back to me.
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There's no compartmentalization over there.
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Then how do they keep a secret so well?
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We have to keep a secret because the president
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shouldn't know about this stuff for many reasons.
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One, because plausible deniability.
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If ever something comes out and the president knew about it,
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he's now in trouble.
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They can put him in jail because he knew about this illegal activity.
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And so they have to keep this information compartmentalized
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because they got a new president every four years.
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Not the case in China.
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Not the case in Russia.
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Everything goes to the top.
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And so if you want to ask,
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if I had to pick one person to ask about their UFO program,
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it'd probably be Putin.
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That guy probably knows everything about the UFO program.
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A lot of open land in Russia too.
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And he's been around forever.
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And you know that he just grabbed everything from the previous guy.
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There's no hiding stuff from that guy.
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So, you know, and that's the difference, I think, between this compartmentalization
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actually will hurt us in the long run.
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And I think that might be why a lot of these top physicists who are looking into this stuff
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are worried, and especially Bob Lazar, he was saying this stuff too, you know, back in early 90s,
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was let us work together because if not, they're going to figure it out much faster than we are.
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I just, this is the part that kind of hangs me up.
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The compartmentalization here also makes verifying things for the people that do leak
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in order to decide to go public harder because they only know one little piece.
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And it's like, you know-
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They don't even know that they're working on something exotic.
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Whereas, yes, you're talking about totalitarian regimes here,
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especially China and Russia, where, you know, there's always the threat of death and stuff like that.
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But when you bring 500, 1,000, 2,000 people on it, and they all know and they're all a part of it,
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even if they all feed that to the president, if one of them gets out of the country and defects,
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they got everything.
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You know what I mean?
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Like, the risk is so high.
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Yeah, but also, I don't think-
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Like, I mean, culturally, it is different.
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If you look at, you know, America versus other countries,
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there's a massive cultural gap between how we treat things,
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and we're ready to, like, boast about our first victory or whatever,
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where a lot of these countries, most of the Asian countries specifically,
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are very humble when it comes to that stuff, and they don't really talk about-
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They're just, like, nose down, work, do what's good for your country, very patriotic.
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It's very rare that you'll see, like, defectors in any other-
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And maybe I'm wrong here, but in any other, like, work,
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like, what else do you see a lot of Chinese defectors when it comes to nuclear technology,
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when it comes to AI, when it comes to-
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AI, I've seen a couple, but-
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And I wouldn't be surprised if there were some that came out from the UFO stuff as well,
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but they'll probably treat it the same way they treat everything else and just snuff it out and, you know.
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It gets- the thing about the UFO thing, though, is it's not- it's a borderless thing.
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Which technically all technology is, don't get me wrong, but, like, this is-
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I shouldn't even say borderless.
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It is something quite literally not of this earth, which is something that affects us all,
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regardless of what borders and laws we live within, right?
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So you would think there would be, like, another layer to that that has nothing to do with, like,
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oh, like, Chinese patriotism or Russian patriotism or United States patriotism,
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and more has to do with, like, you know, if you were working on a project and you're like,
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holy s***, we recovered a hundred-yard-long craft and reverse-engineered anti-gravity
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because some f***ing Zeta Reticlian, you know, crashed this year?
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The ontological shock of that, I- I don't- I mean, maybe you're right.
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Maybe culturally they'd just be like, oh, wow, cool, all right, forgotten China, you know, but-
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Yeah, well, that's definitely a real thing.
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There's a lot of- most of the people would be scared to talk.
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I'm just saying all it takes is one.
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It takes one to not be scared.
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Yep, true, but then who's he telling?
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You know, where's he going?
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Do you know what I mean?
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Like, where do you go?
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You're a Chinese guy, you speak Chinese, you're coming to America, or you're leaving China,
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let's say, and you want to go public.
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You know, you speak Chinese, you speak Mandarin, you're trying to, you know, first of all,
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anything you say, we're going to think of some propaganda.
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You know, there's nothing you can say that I'm going to think is real, you know?
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So yeah, I think it's- it might be easier to keep secret than we think, but other parts
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of it, I also think, are really hard to keep secret, and that stuff's been coming out,
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and we just kind of ignore it.
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Like, you talked about Bob Salas there, like, there's so many other cases of whistleblowing
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that has happened, and I don't mean whistleblowing through, like, the DOPSR-regulated, you know,
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I mean, actual people who are coming out, quote-unquote, illegally to say that, hey, there's
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a problem here, you know?
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And the first one I can think of is Bob Lazar.
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Have you ever met Bob Lazar?
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Spent time with him.
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Like at dinner, that kind of thing?
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Yeah, yeah, I spent a couple days with him, because he was-
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You spent a couple days with him?
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Yeah, he was in town doing- working on the documentary, the S4, the Bob Lazar story,
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with my friend Luigi Vanditelli, who's also in Montreal, so I got to hang with him there.
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What did you think of him?
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Incredibly normal guy.
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I think everybody who meets Bob kind of says that about him.
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He's just like a salt-of-the-earth type guy.
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My bullshit meter wasn't off at all.
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Like, it didn't go off.
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I can say he does get incredibly-
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There is stress when he talks about this stuff, but you can tell it stems from a place of fear.
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And that you can just detect off someone, like his energy shifts, and not to an energy of, oh, I'm trying to lie.
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It's more of an energy of like, oh, I got to talk about this.
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Like, it conjures up something very, very, very profoundly dreadful in him, you know, and you can feel that.
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I remember speaking to him and talking to him about like Majestic 12 stuff.
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Oh, yeah. Tell people what Majestic 12 is.
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Yeah. It was apparently this group that was formed after the Roswell crash that consisted of 12 people, including, you know, generals and scientists and leaders of industry to cover up the UFO stuff.
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And then they formed what was known as the Majestic 12, which is, hey, this information is going to be, you know, only known by these 12 people.
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And as soon as one leaves, another one comes in type deal.
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And so he had heard the term, right?
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According to him, he'd heard the term at S4.
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He'd heard like the term Majestic.
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Even his badge had MAJ on it.
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So he had like Majestic clearance, which was, you know, very few people had that.
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And so I was talking to him about it.
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And he was like kind of interested because he never, he's not a UFO guy.
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He doesn't know about any of this stuff.
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And he told me, you know, I was talking to him about Aztec, the Aztec crash, which is a crash that happened in 48, in March 48, so nine months after Roswell,
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which is, I think, probably the most well-documented crash in history.
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I want to say Ryan Wood talked about that, but there were a bunch we talked about when he was here.
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Maybe Ryan Wood would have talked about it.
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I know that Scott and Suzanne Ramsey wrote a book on it.
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Bill Steinman wrote a book called UFO Crash at Aztec.
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What happened at Aztec?
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It was a hundred foot disc, a hundred foot in diameter disc that hit the side of a bluff that was witnessed by this guy at the Archuleta Ranch,
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and then veered off and landed on a mesa in Aztec, which was then found by two people.
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And then the Air Force was called in, took two weeks for them to recover it.
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There were 16 bodies, apparently, that were pulled from that wreckage.
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There's a great video that UAP Gerb put on a, did a real deep dive on it.
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He does great stuff.
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And I helped Jesse direct.
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I directed a video that's going to come out on Jesse's channel.
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We went down to Aztec in New Mexico and went to the crash site.
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16 bodies were recovered from it?
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Yeah, allegedly, yeah.
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What allegedly happened to them?
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They were sent off to initially Los Alamos and then from what we gathered to Wright-Patt.
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At least the crafts were sent to Wright-Patt.
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Maybe the body stayed in the, I don't know.
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Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
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It would have been Wright Airfield at the time, I think.
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Okay, so you were talking to Bob Lazar about this?
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What was the context there, talking about that with him?
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Um, because we were talking about majestic stuff and I was just talking about things that,
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yeah, that's the plaque at the crash site.
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That was written by Scott Ramsey there.
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Yeah, I'll just read this real quick.
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On or about this site, on March 25th, 1948, a spacecraft of origins unknown crashed or landed
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It is alleged the Los Alamos radar station in nearby El Vado, Mexico tracked the errant landing
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A high security recovery operation led by the Air Force and the 5th Army Division was responsible
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for the removal of this craft.
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The recovery operation took approximately two weeks with all the remains being taken to
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Los Alamos Laboratory for Scientific Study and Evaluation by some of the world's leading
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Later, it was rumored to have been taken to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.
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The recovery of this craft by the U.S. military, by the U.S. government and military was one of
[0:16:18 - 0:16:22] ▶
the most secretive recoveries of a spacecraft with origins unknown since the similar recoveries
[0:16:22 - 0:16:27] ▶
in Roswell, New Mexico, eight months earlier.
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The spacecraft was approximately 100 feet in diameter and 18 feet tall.
[0:16:29 - 0:16:33] ▶
It was one of the most intact crafts that the government had recovered at that time.
[0:16:33 - 0:16:37] ▶
Sadly, all occupants, as many as 16, died as a result of this crash, making the full disclosure
[0:16:37 - 0:16:42] ▶
of both purpose and origin all but impossible.
[0:16:42 - 0:16:45] ▶
The plaque has been placed here to bring awareness to an event that has been kept secret for 59
[0:16:45 - 0:16:49] ▶
years and is a significant part of America's history.
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So I was talking to Bob about that, and he was really interested because he told me, he's
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like, you know, he goes, John would talk about this stuff all the time, and I never believed
[0:17:05 - 0:17:10] ▶
And he was referring to John Lear, who's a well-known conspiracy theorist, but also a pilot
[0:17:10 - 0:17:17] ▶
And so, but, you know, Bob was really clear with me, at least, that the relationship he
[0:17:18 - 0:17:27] ▶
had with John Lear was one that was friendly, but he didn't buy into any of the stuff John
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Like, John would, you know, Bob would say, oh, John thought people lived in the sun.
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Like, he just kind of threw everything out.
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So he never really registered that any of this could be real.
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He thought it was all hogwash, kind of.
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And so when I brought up Majestic 12 and I brought up, you know, Aztec and this and
[0:17:46 - 0:17:50] ▶
that, you could see him being like, wait, you think this happened?
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And I'm like, oh, yeah, especially Aztec.
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I'm pretty high conviction after reading Steinman's book and looking into Scott and Suzanne Ramsey's
[0:17:55 - 0:18:00] ▶
They got a new book coming out soon, by the way, on this stuff.
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It's really interesting.
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There's an overwhelming amount of evidence that it did happen.
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And then I remember mentioning to Bob that there was a witness that came out that said
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they saw this craft in a hangar at Wright-Patterson and they were doing a high voltage test on
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it and it went translucent, like kind of see-through.
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But not fully, like kind of like a shower glass.
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Yeah, where you could see the shape of it.
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You could see shapes of people and Bob got all excited and he goes, that's exactly what
[0:18:35 - 0:18:40] ▶
And he started like, and it was just me and him.
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Like he got, you could tell, like visibly excited by it.
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And I was like, what do you mean?
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When, so when he was in the craft, the one time he was allowed in the UFO, they were measuring
[0:18:48 - 0:18:54] ▶
the chair, whatnot, or the seating device.
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And he was looking and all of a sudden one of the panels went invisible, one of the panels
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And symbols started appearing on the panels, according to him.
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That was the only time he was allowed in the craft, but he remembers that and he speaks
[0:19:08 - 0:19:11] ▶
And so when I mentioned it wasn't completely transparent, he went like, he got all excited
[0:19:12 - 0:19:17] ▶
because he's like, that's what it was like.
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He never meant, there's not a detail that he never mentioned.
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But you saw that it excited him that it came from someone else.
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And so, you know, it was really interesting to see him react to that stuff.
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And he's not opposed to like meeting people like Scott and Sudan Ramsey, people who he can
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trust know something.
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I think he's afraid of engaging with the UFO space because of how many people speculate.
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He does not like to speculate.
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Sure, he'll like talk about things, but when it comes to what he's seen, and he's very,
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very careful about talking about stuff because he doesn't want to give people the wrong idea.
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You know, even in the blue documents that they had him read, where they briefed him on
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these alleged blue documents that contained, you know, all sorts of secrets about religion,
[0:20:09 - 0:20:17] ▶
where we're from, hybridization programs, or genetic modifications in humans, and the anatomy of a gray,
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where they're from, what star system, like all this stuff he had to be briefed on.
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He never believed any of it.
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And he really is reluctant to talk about it in public.
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He'll chat about it like off camera, I think.
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But in public, he just doesn't want to give people the impression that it's true.
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He's like, he knows about passage material, and the fact that sometimes they'll put bullshit in there
[0:20:42 - 0:20:48] ▶
to see that if you talk about it to someone else, they'll know exactly who it came from.
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And he's very, and he's like, they do that.
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And he's like, so, he's like, the only thing I can say is that whatever they showed me about the craft
[0:20:55 - 0:21:01] ▶
that he worked on, that was true.
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So, you know, I can only surmise that whatever else he read about is also true.
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But he'll never make that assumption.
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So did, I mean, because obviously, like, you're very familiar with this story and everything,
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because you're into all this stuff.
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But did you have him, like, kind of go through it step by step with you again?
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Yeah, we touched on it.
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We definitely, you know, I was able to, like, poke and prod where I thought there might be weaknesses.
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Not, I'm high conviction on Balbazar.
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I'm extremely high conviction on Balbazar that he went through what he went through.
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So he says that he was working out at Area 51, Nellis Air Force Base.
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He had access to S4.
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He was working at S4.
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He was working, yeah, I'm sorry.
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He was working at S4.
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And at some point, as a physicist, engineer, I should say.
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And at some point, he's brought in.
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Yeah, he's brought in.
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He was actually recruited.
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So he'd met Edward Teller, who knows the father of the H-bomb.
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He'd met him at a talk once.
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And then kind of Teller was reading the newspaper.
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And on the front page of the paper was Bob.
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It was a local Los Alamos paper.
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And Bob was on the front cover because he'd made a jet engine car.
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And he's a big fan of, like, propulsion and racing and doing dangerous shit and just kind of like – he's a bit of a badass.
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He loves exploding things.
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And, you know, he used to host Desert Blast, which is this thing where they'd blow shit up in the desert.
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So Bob's a bit of a badass when it comes to that stuff.
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So he thought, oh, this is a good opportunity to meet Teller and to be like, hey, that's me on the cover.
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And so they kind of, like, go back and forth.
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Teller gives him his contact info.
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And then I think years later – I don't even think it's months later.
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I think years later, he was looking for a job.
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He's like, oh, maybe I want to go back into working as, like, a scientist.
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And so he had hit up Teller.
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And Teller said, oh, I might have a job for you.
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And had him come down to – I forget – it was in Las Vegas, but to do some interviews.
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So he did a few interviews, got him a job.
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They said, yeah, it would be perfect for this.
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Didn't know what the job was.
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Weird questioning and, like, kind of like, what do you do in your personal time, which is a weird thing to ask.
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And then, yeah, they'd fly him out to – they took the Janet Airlines, which is the airplane that goes from Las Vegas Airport to the airstrip at Area 51.
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And then from there, he'd get into a bus and do a 20-minute ride by himself.
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And Dennis Mariani, his supervisor, would be in there with him.
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And then he'd go to S4, where he would eventually be told that, you know, what he's working on was reverse engineering of an alien craft and that their number one priority was to figure out how it worked.
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And they said alien craft.
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That was the term they used?
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They didn't say – no, they didn't say anything.
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In fact, they put him in a room and had him read documents.
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And the documents said it was from Zeta Reticuli, it was, you know, all this stuff, that it was – it hinted that this particular craft was from an archaeological dig that might have been 10,000 years old.
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But again, Bob, you know, he's reading this stuff and he's like, oh, this is probably a test.
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They're probably testing me, you know, to see if I'm insane or something.
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He doesn't – he doesn't – you know.
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In fact, when he first walked in, when he first saw the craft the first time, it had an American flag sticker on it.
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Like they had put it on there.
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And he goes – in his head, he's like, oh, that's what people are reporting.
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He's like, it's just ours.
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He didn't think aliens.
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He thought, oh, this is just ours.
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But like people are seeing this and like that explains it finally.
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Logical thing to think.
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And yeah, then he goes to read these documents and whatnot and then he gets to work with the actual reactor and the transmitter and the amplifier, the gravity amplifier and the propulsion essentially of the craft.
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Is anyone else working on it with him?
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Yeah, one person, Barry.
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Barry Castillo, I think his name was.
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And that's his only partner.
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And Bob was actually – according to Bob, was replacing Barry's other partner who had died tragically somehow.
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I think he thinks by cutting open the reactor, they tried to do some tests.
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He doesn't know if more than one person died, but he knows that that guy died.
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He was replacing a guy that dies due to that.
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So Barry was really excited to have a new partner and he kind of briefed Bob and what his job would be.
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And then one day they were allowed to go inside the craft and measure stuff.
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And then one other day they were actually brought outside to see a test flight where he got to stand under the craft.
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Yeah, right outside.
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So these doors are in the side of a mountain.
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There's like nine hangar doors and they're camouflaged.
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And then they brought the craft outside somehow.
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He wasn't aware of how they brought it out.
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And he was outside and it was sort of in the air and he was allowed to walk under it.
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How would he – forget how the craft is brought out, so he doesn't know that.
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But how would he be brought out?
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Would someone come in and be like, all right, you have to come with us, come through these doors, walk through the hallway, you get outside,
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And how did he describe the test flight looking?
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And what did they do?
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It was just – it went up and then went back down.
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And there was some – there was like – there was a rate – this is the interesting thing,
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which always like kind of stands out as like weird.
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Even Bob thinks it's weird that there was communication on a radio frequency between whoever was inside, allegedly,
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and with the person on the ground.
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And Bob's thinking, that's impossible.
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Because if you're creating a gravitational field around this, it's – you're in your own space and space time.
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There's no way radio frequency would get through that.
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Yeah, there's no way.
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So he doesn't know what that was about.
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But he knows that the test pilot in that case had to be like our guy rather than a fucking alien.
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He doesn't know anybody that was in there.
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So it – you know, he speculates like, oh, I don't know, maybe they were trying to trick me.
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Maybe, you know, they were – maybe they're – I don't know.
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I think, you know, what if the only way we can fly it is like with their help, right?
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Meaning like them or the kids as he refers to them as.
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But the aliens, right?
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What if like – and so what if one of them was in there during that time?
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And they had to like pretend it was a human so they were radioing somebody else somewhere else, you know?
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And Bob kind of maybe figured that out.
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It's all – that's all me speculating.
[0:28:05 - 0:28:07] ▶
I love thinking about this though.
[0:28:08 - 0:28:10] ▶
It's so fascinating.
[0:28:12 - 0:28:12] ▶
It's so fascinating because it's like – god, even if like 10% of it's true, it's a big deal, right?
[0:28:13 - 0:28:18] ▶
But did he – did you ask him about what his – when he saw it actually fly out there?
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If like that moment – obviously he's thinking about the science of the radio frequency thing.
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It doesn't make sense.
[0:28:31 - 0:28:31] ▶
But was he also – did he have a moment to even like step back and be like, wait, my entire worldview has just completely changed?
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It changed way before then I think.
[0:28:38 - 0:28:40] ▶
Yeah, when he was doing tests with the reactor.
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When did the element 115 thing come in?
[0:28:43 - 0:28:46] ▶
That's with the reactor.
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Can you explain that again?
[0:28:46 - 0:28:49] ▶
I forget what the context is there.
[0:28:49 - 0:28:51] ▶
It's basically the fuel.
[0:28:51 - 0:28:53] ▶
And it's this little triangular slice of apparently element 115 that would go into the reactor.
[0:28:54 - 0:28:59] ▶
And I'm not exactly – if you want to know more about this, by the way, stay tuned for S4, the Bob Lazar story.
[0:28:59 - 0:29:06] ▶
They go through everything.
[0:29:06 - 0:29:07] ▶
It's a fantastic documentary.
[0:29:07 - 0:29:08] ▶
But they explain how all of that works.
[0:29:12 - 0:29:16] ▶
So essentially it's – the element 115 is like fed into something.
[0:29:16 - 0:29:20] ▶
It's hit with – I don't even – I'm not even going to pretend to understand.
[0:29:20 - 0:29:24] ▶
But it creates 116, which decays, which then creates antimatter.
[0:29:24 - 0:29:28] ▶
And then that powers the craft somehow.
[0:29:28 - 0:29:32] ▶
They still don't know how there aren't any wires connecting anything.
[0:29:32 - 0:29:36] ▶
And yet still things are working.
[0:29:36 - 0:29:38] ▶
Like there's a lot of stuff.
[0:29:38 - 0:29:39] ▶
So Bob said he would just – it was like disarming a bomb every day.
[0:29:39 - 0:29:44] ▶
Like he didn't know.
[0:29:44 - 0:29:45] ▶
You know, it's – you give a nuclear reactor to somebody in the 1600s.
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They're going to get sick and die.
[0:29:50 - 0:29:51] ▶
They're going to kill people.
[0:29:51 - 0:29:52] ▶
Like he's like, that's what we were playing with.
[0:29:52 - 0:29:53] ▶
He's like, it was very dangerous.
[0:29:53 - 0:29:54] ▶
They had no idea the power.
[0:29:54 - 0:29:56] ▶
They could just test things.
[0:29:56 - 0:29:57] ▶
So they do this and then – oh, nothing happened.
[0:29:58 - 0:30:00] ▶
It was very boring, he said.
[0:30:02 - 0:30:03] ▶
And then he did some tests, which were really freaking cool.
[0:30:06 - 0:30:09] ▶
The coolest one that he's ever talked about was they put a candle beside the reactor.
[0:30:11 - 0:30:19] ▶
And when they – they had the gravity amplifier.
[0:30:19 - 0:30:21] ▶
And when they turned the amplifier to like – I guess it was like directional gravity, this thing.
[0:30:21 - 0:30:29] ▶
And so when you turn it, it like focuses gravity.
[0:30:29 - 0:30:32] ▶
And they would do that onto the flame of the candle.
[0:30:32 - 0:30:35] ▶
The candle would stop jumping.
[0:30:35 - 0:30:37] ▶
It would stand still.
[0:30:38 - 0:30:38] ▶
But it would still emit light, which was impossible to him.
[0:30:39 - 0:30:42] ▶
So it was like creating time dilation.
[0:30:42 - 0:30:45] ▶
Yeah, because of the – because he was amplifying gravity.
[0:30:46 - 0:30:48] ▶
And then he did – he also did it once where they created like this – what seems like a black hole.
[0:30:49 - 0:30:55] ▶
Yeah, it was like a round circle that was black.
[0:30:56 - 0:31:00] ▶
That was when they cranked it and like focused the gravity beam.
[0:31:00 - 0:31:04] ▶
It would create this round dot.
[0:31:04 - 0:31:07] ▶
And they didn't know what that was.
[0:31:07 - 0:31:08] ▶
They didn't interact with – you know.
[0:31:08 - 0:31:10] ▶
They didn't like stick a finger out to see it got sucked in.
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No, because you know, maybe that will destroy the whole universe.
[0:31:12 - 0:31:15] ▶
You know, who knows?
[0:31:16 - 0:31:17] ▶
I don't know what kind of – you know, but that's the type of technology you're working with when you're messing with gravity.
[0:31:17 - 0:31:22] ▶
And I'm sure that the U.S. government or whoever was in charge of the nuclear tests felt some of that when you're blowing up megatons of nuclear – like you're probably tearing space time on some level as well, right?
[0:31:22 - 0:31:36] ▶
So yeah, I think all that stuff is incredibly dangerous.
[0:31:36 - 0:31:39] ▶
How long did he say he was doing the work on it and the testing approximately?
[0:31:41 - 0:31:46] ▶
I think he was only – I think he was only there for a few months.
[0:31:46 - 0:31:50] ▶
Still, that's like a lot of time to spend with one craft.
[0:31:51 - 0:31:53] ▶
Well, he only – he went in the craft once.
[0:31:54 - 0:31:57] ▶
Other than that, he was working with the reactor just doing tests on the – trying to reverse engineer how it propels.
[0:31:58 - 0:32:05] ▶
You know, there's some interesting stuff there, though.
[0:32:05 - 0:32:07] ▶
I mean, there's a ton of interesting stuff.
[0:32:07 - 0:32:09] ▶
Would they debrief him on a daily or weekly basis?
[0:32:10 - 0:32:14] ▶
And if so, like who's doing that?
[0:32:14 - 0:32:16] ▶
So he would just – he'd be brought in by the same guy, Dennis, you said his name was, to work on it every day?
[0:32:18 - 0:32:23] ▶
And there's security guards everywhere.
[0:32:23 - 0:32:24] ▶
That are constantly pushing you, constantly threatening you.
[0:32:26 - 0:32:29] ▶
Pushing you and threatening you.
[0:32:30 - 0:32:31] ▶
Like checking his ID, even though like he knows he works there.
[0:32:32 - 0:32:36] ▶
Like, you know, and keep it down.
[0:32:36 - 0:32:38] ▶
Like, you better not fucking talk.
[0:32:39 - 0:32:40] ▶
Like, just constantly, constantly berating them with stress inoculation.
[0:32:40 - 0:32:44] ▶
And that's the environment.
[0:32:45 - 0:32:46] ▶
He's like, it's a high – very high stress environment because these people would – yeah, they were like bullies, essentially.
[0:32:46 - 0:32:52] ▶
The security that was there constantly.
[0:32:52 - 0:32:54] ▶
And it would put you in a state of fear.
[0:32:55 - 0:32:56] ▶
Like stress, high stress and fear, constantly, constantly, constantly.
[0:32:57 - 0:33:00] ▶
You had to whisper when you were talking.
[0:33:00 - 0:33:02] ▶
Like, so nobody – like it was, you know, look down, look down.
[0:33:02 - 0:33:05] ▶
There was a red line and a blue line.
[0:33:05 - 0:33:07] ▶
If you crossed the red line, you were immediately shot, like type deal.
[0:33:08 - 0:33:11] ▶
You had to follow the blue line.
[0:33:11 - 0:33:12] ▶
Like it was high stress environment.
[0:33:12 - 0:33:14] ▶
Like very, very, very, very.
[0:33:14 - 0:33:15] ▶
And so like when I hear that, you know, like these are – this is 1989 when Bob came out and he started talking about reverse engineering of a craft.
[0:33:15 - 0:33:22] ▶
The first time we talk about an intact craft that were reverse engineering, by the way.
[0:33:23 - 0:33:26] ▶
Everything else was a crash before that.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:28] ▶
And so, you know, that was new.
[0:33:28 - 0:33:30] ▶
And then talking about the propulsion, talking about like how they're doing it in teams.
[0:33:30 - 0:33:35] ▶
Like nobody had ever really talked about that.
[0:33:35 - 0:33:37] ▶
And then, you know, just saying things like, oh, the high stress environment during the compartmentalization and – I mean, you listen to Grush.
[0:33:37 - 0:33:46] ▶
You listen to all these guys.
[0:33:46 - 0:33:47] ▶
That's what they're talking about.
[0:33:47 - 0:33:48] ▶
They're talking about the same thing, you know.
[0:33:48 - 0:33:50] ▶
And yet people are all freaking out about all these new whistleblowers.
[0:33:51 - 0:33:54] ▶
Dude, Bob was saying all this stuff, man.
[0:33:54 - 0:33:56] ▶
He was saying all of this stuff.
[0:33:56 - 0:33:58] ▶
Everything we're talking about now started with Bob.
[0:33:58 - 0:34:01] ▶
You can sit there and say, oh, yeah, but this doesn't add up or that doesn't add up.
[0:34:02 - 0:34:07] ▶
Maybe it does and you just don't know the full story.
[0:34:08 - 0:34:10] ▶
But rest assured that everything he's talking about like is coming to light.
[0:34:10 - 0:34:15] ▶
We're talking about all the same things now.
[0:34:15 - 0:34:16] ▶
After he puts in, you know, a 10, 12-hour day, whatever it is, in this high stress situation over these months, like each day when he's escorted out of there by a dentist, like –
[0:34:17 - 0:34:26] ▶
You just sleep on the base and –
[0:34:27 - 0:34:28] ▶
Takes the bus back and flies back to Vegas and then drives back home.
[0:34:30 - 0:34:33] ▶
He has to fly out of the Area 51 back to – on Janet Airlines.
[0:34:36 - 0:34:39] ▶
So he's doing like a multi –
[0:34:39 - 0:34:41] ▶
Multi-medium, you know, four-hour commute.
[0:34:42 - 0:34:45] ▶
If you were there, he says that there might have been people that slept there, you know, but he never did.
[0:34:46 - 0:34:52] ▶
Hey, guys, if you haven't already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button.
[0:34:53 - 0:34:56] ▶
It's a huge, huge help.
[0:34:56 - 0:34:57] ▶
Maybe if you would have stayed longer.
[0:34:58 - 0:35:00] ▶
How did he stop working on it?
[0:35:03 - 0:35:04] ▶
What was that process?
[0:35:04 - 0:35:05] ▶
He was – if I'm not mistaken, I think there was some trouble in paradise.
[0:35:05 - 0:35:12] ▶
I think his wife was seeing someone else having an affair.
[0:35:12 - 0:35:18] ▶
And he didn't like –
[0:35:19 - 0:35:20] ▶
Well, the CIA was tapping him like they do – or the CIA, whoever the program was.
[0:35:20 - 0:35:25] ▶
You know, they're just making sure that your home life is stable because if anything goes wrong at the home, then they're like, oh, you know, you might be a problem.
[0:35:25 - 0:35:34] ▶
You might be a liability.
[0:35:34 - 0:35:34] ▶
And so they were anticipating that there was going to be a problem with him, that they would have to let him go.
[0:35:34 - 0:35:40] ▶
And I think he sensed that, but he didn't know why.
[0:35:40 - 0:35:44] ▶
So these guys found out before he did about his wife, right?
[0:35:44 - 0:35:49] ▶
Because they're tapping the phones and everything.
[0:35:49 - 0:35:52] ▶
So they know what's going on, but he doesn't.
[0:35:52 - 0:35:53] ▶
So they're anticipating that, oh, this is going to go bad.
[0:35:53 - 0:35:56] ▶
We've got to let him go type deal.
[0:35:56 - 0:35:57] ▶
And so he started bringing his friends up, like John Lear, I think Gene Huff, I think all these guys, started bringing them up to a place which is no longer accessible, but a place that overlooked S4 back then.
[0:35:58 - 0:36:10] ▶
And they would do test flights Wednesday nights at like 2 a.m.
[0:36:10 - 0:36:16] ▶
It was the least amount of air traffic or local traffic.
[0:36:16 - 0:36:18] ▶
And so he brought them up there on three separate occasions to see test flights.
[0:36:19 - 0:36:24] ▶
There's even video of that.
[0:36:26 - 0:36:27] ▶
It's really like old 80s footage, and it's just a light, but it skips.
[0:36:28 - 0:36:32] ▶
It goes, just like he said it would.
[0:36:32 - 0:36:34] ▶
Isn't that like breaking his confidentiality agreement, though, doing that?
[0:36:34 - 0:36:37] ▶
But he was afraid for his life.
[0:36:38 - 0:36:40] ▶
He thought he might be like off.
[0:36:40 - 0:36:42] ▶
He was getting paranoid.
[0:36:42 - 0:36:44] ▶
Hey, listen, I'm not judging here.
[0:36:45 - 0:36:47] ▶
And the last night he got caught.
[0:36:47 - 0:36:48] ▶
That's what I'm saying.
[0:36:49 - 0:36:50] ▶
Why wasn't he thrown in prison?
[0:36:50 - 0:36:51] ▶
Like you would think this would be the thing they'd throw you in prison forever for.
[0:36:51 - 0:36:54] ▶
I mean, they could lie about the details and say that's national security information.
[0:36:57 - 0:37:02] ▶
And risk him just blowing up in prison and being like, oh, no, this is what they did.
[0:37:02 - 0:37:06] ▶
I mean, they've killed people for far less.
[0:37:07 - 0:37:10] ▶
They would much sooner kill you.
[0:37:10 - 0:37:11] ▶
And then that's why he was afraid, because he even says he's got ran off the road.
[0:37:12 - 0:37:17] ▶
That's the other thing.
[0:37:20 - 0:37:21] ▶
He went to George immediately.
[0:37:22 - 0:37:24] ▶
And broke his story.
[0:37:25 - 0:37:26] ▶
So when he got caught.
[0:37:26 - 0:37:26] ▶
What happened when he got caught the last night again?
[0:37:27 - 0:37:29] ▶
There's a bunch of people that came out, basically caught him, took all their names, and then sent them home.
[0:37:30 - 0:37:36] ▶
And then that's where he knew.
[0:37:36 - 0:37:37] ▶
Like, he was like, uh-oh.
[0:37:37 - 0:37:38] ▶
This is going to be a problem.
[0:37:39 - 0:37:40] ▶
So he goes to George Knapp, who's a local reporter in Nevada.
[0:37:40 - 0:37:44] ▶
And at first, he does it without revealing his identity.
[0:37:46 - 0:37:50] ▶
So you just hear his voice.
[0:37:50 - 0:37:51] ▶
He says his name is like Dennis or something like that.
[0:37:52 - 0:37:53] ▶
Which is his supervisor's name.
[0:37:53 - 0:37:55] ▶
And he says, when he did the first one, how much did he reveal?
[0:37:55 - 0:38:01] ▶
Was it just like, hey, I've been working on stuff that's not of this earth?
[0:38:01 - 0:38:04] ▶
He said there's like nine craft at the base.
[0:38:05 - 0:38:07] ▶
So he gave some detail.
[0:38:08 - 0:38:09] ▶
And then not too long after, he actually goes public with his face with George.
[0:38:09 - 0:38:14] ▶
I think he gets threats between then and when he came out.
[0:38:14 - 0:38:19] ▶
So I think that's what made him come out was for his own safety.
[0:38:19 - 0:38:21] ▶
After that, he's like, I need to go public.
[0:38:21 - 0:38:22] ▶
I need to put my face out there.
[0:38:22 - 0:38:23] ▶
Do you think, you know, these are major claims, obviously.
[0:38:24 - 0:38:30] ▶
Do you think that a lot of the stuff that's happened since then were these institutions
[0:38:34 - 0:38:38] ▶
that he claimed to be a part of, say, there's no record of him being here, whether it be
[0:38:38 - 0:38:42] ▶
MIT or there was another one as well.
[0:38:42 - 0:38:45] ▶
I forget what it's called.
[0:38:45 - 0:38:46] ▶
It was like 3,000 miles away or something like that.
[0:38:46 - 0:38:48] ▶
Do you think some of that is explained by downward stream threats of people being told like,
[0:38:48 - 0:38:58] ▶
hey, you got to deny this guy, deny his credibility.
[0:38:58 - 0:39:00] ▶
We have to destroy his credibility, et cetera.
[0:39:00 - 0:39:02] ▶
Is that how you would explain it?
[0:39:03 - 0:39:04] ▶
You know, there is, I think, a real reason why his records don't show up.
[0:39:15 - 0:39:23] ▶
I think that's very real.
[0:39:23 - 0:39:24] ▶
What do you mean it's very real?
[0:39:24 - 0:39:27] ▶
Well, I think the fact that, like, I think his records were destroyed.
[0:39:27 - 0:39:32] ▶
And I think that, I don't think he was the only one.
[0:39:32 - 0:39:38] ▶
I think there were other people whose were also, but I think, yeah.
[0:39:39 - 0:39:43] ▶
I don't think that, how can I say this?
[0:39:45 - 0:39:49] ▶
I think there's a perfectly good reason why there's no records there.
[0:39:50 - 0:39:52] ▶
I think it makes sense if you hear it.
[0:39:53 - 0:39:54] ▶
Sometimes I think about it, like.
[0:39:55 - 0:39:57] ▶
It's not for me to say.
[0:39:57 - 0:39:58] ▶
You know the movie Shutter Island, Leonardo DiCaprio?
[0:39:58 - 0:40:02] ▶
So, spoiler alert, he's playing a guy who it turns out the whole time like he's actually in an insane asylum.
[0:40:03 - 0:40:09] ▶
Everyone who then looks at him once the reveal is given looks at him like, oh, crazy person.
[0:40:11 - 0:40:19] ▶
Imagine being that person and everyone looks at you that way, even though both you and them know you're not crazy.
[0:40:20 - 0:40:32] ▶
But they have to play the role of, like, almost like in the 1984 movie of life, just like, oh, Bob, you don't really think that.
[0:40:32 - 0:40:40] ▶
You know what I mean?
[0:40:41 - 0:40:41] ▶
But it's like this assumed kind of thing.
[0:40:42 - 0:40:44] ▶
That's kind of what I wonder.
[0:40:45 - 0:40:46] ▶
Bob doesn't give a shit.
[0:40:47 - 0:40:48] ▶
That's what's fun about Bob.
[0:40:48 - 0:40:50] ▶
He does not give a shit whether you believe him or not.
[0:40:50 - 0:40:51] ▶
Couldn't be bothered.
[0:40:53 - 0:40:53] ▶
It's so funny because, like, we're out here.
[0:40:55 - 0:40:57] ▶
What do you mean you don't believe him, Bob?
[0:40:58 - 0:40:59] ▶
You look at the facts?
[0:40:59 - 0:41:00] ▶
No, you got this wrong.
[0:41:00 - 0:41:01] ▶
You know, you're not doing your homework.
[0:41:01 - 0:41:03] ▶
Bob's like, let him.
[0:41:03 - 0:41:03] ▶
I don't give a shit.
[0:41:04 - 0:41:04] ▶
He doesn't care if you don't believe him.
[0:41:06 - 0:41:08] ▶
And I love that about him.
[0:41:08 - 0:41:09] ▶
He just, he can't be bothered.
[0:41:09 - 0:41:10] ▶
He's like, yeah, I know what happened.
[0:41:10 - 0:41:11] ▶
He's like, it happened.
[0:41:12 - 0:41:12] ▶
What do you want me to say?
[0:41:12 - 0:41:13] ▶
Like, I don't care what you say.
[0:41:14 - 0:41:15] ▶
You know, and he has that attitude and he's maintained that.
[0:41:15 - 0:41:19] ▶
And it's the reason why he doesn't do a lot of interviews.
[0:41:19 - 0:41:21] ▶
Is because he's like, I've told my story.
[0:41:21 - 0:41:25] ▶
You know, world, take it.
[0:41:28 - 0:41:29] ▶
I'm not going to make anything up now.
[0:41:30 - 0:41:31] ▶
He's like, I've told you everything I know.
[0:41:31 - 0:41:33] ▶
That's all I can do.
[0:41:33 - 0:41:34] ▶
Do you think the reason he's turned down, forget interviews.
[0:41:35 - 0:41:37] ▶
Do you think the reason he's turned down doing, like, some debates and stuff with, quote,
[0:41:37 - 0:41:42] ▶
unquote, qualified physicists or scientists or people within that space is because he's
[0:41:42 - 0:41:50] ▶
been taken advantage of and lied to before.
[0:41:50 - 0:41:53] ▶
And so he feels like anything he goes to do is a trap.
[0:41:53 - 0:41:57] ▶
It's kind of like a catch 22 for him.
[0:41:57 - 0:42:00] ▶
Like, he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
[0:42:00 - 0:42:02] ▶
Yeah, he's, I'd imagine he would be distrustful of a lot of people for a varying amount of
[0:42:02 - 0:42:09] ▶
reasons, whether it's government secrecy or just personal gain.
[0:42:09 - 0:42:12] ▶
Like, I think there's a lot to be distrustful of being him.
[0:42:12 - 0:42:16] ▶
And again, I just think, like, he gave all the information that he had to give.
[0:42:17 - 0:42:21] ▶
He's put out enough information out there where you're like, okay, it's time for you to piece
[0:42:21 - 0:42:27] ▶
the puzzle together.
[0:42:27 - 0:42:28] ▶
You know, if you're him, you're not trying to debate anybody.
[0:42:29 - 0:42:34] ▶
If you know, why should he spend his energy convincing people what he went through was
[0:42:36 - 0:42:42] ▶
real when he knows it to be real?
[0:42:42 - 0:42:44] ▶
I think the counter-argument, and I understand where he would come from mentally on that because
[0:42:44 - 0:42:49] ▶
it's such a crazy life experience that he had, I think the counter-argument would be the
[0:42:49 - 0:42:57] ▶
classic, look, you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which means
[0:42:57 - 0:43:02] ▶
putting it to the test.
[0:43:02 - 0:43:03] ▶
The question is, are the people that put it to the test going to do that in good faith?
[0:43:03 - 0:43:10] ▶
And how do you judge good faith?
[0:43:10 - 0:43:12] ▶
And if I were him with his life history and all the things that have happened to him, you
[0:43:12 - 0:43:17] ▶
know, the things that he alleges and stuff, I might not be so trustful either of, quote,
[0:43:17 - 0:43:24] ▶
unquote, good faith in those discussions.
[0:43:24 - 0:43:26] ▶
Yeah, and what will it matter?
[0:43:26 - 0:43:27] ▶
Like, it won't get...
[0:43:29 - 0:43:30] ▶
I don't think it'll further the conversation to have somebody debate, right?
[0:43:30 - 0:43:34] ▶
Because if they want to find a reason not to believe, they're just gonna...
[0:43:35 - 0:43:40] ▶
You know, like I said, I don't think it's about belief.
[0:43:40 - 0:43:43] ▶
I don't think it's about believing Bob or not believing Bob.
[0:43:43 - 0:43:45] ▶
I think it's about taking what Bob said and then doing the work, doing the homework.
[0:43:45 - 0:43:49] ▶
But instead of pushing back on what he said and trying to verify his own credibility,
[0:43:50 - 0:43:56] ▶
why don't we just take the information and do the work for ourselves?
[0:43:57 - 0:44:00] ▶
Why don't we take what we can and hold it up against the rest, right?
[0:44:00 - 0:44:04] ▶
And see if it matches.
[0:44:04 - 0:44:05] ▶
And so far, it really matches, you know?
[0:44:05 - 0:44:10] ▶
And so his word aside, the information that he's giving you is, I think, valuable, at least to a researcher.
[0:44:10 - 0:44:20] ▶
You know, it definitely fills a lot of plot holes, which is fun, you know,
[0:44:21 - 0:44:26] ▶
if somebody's trying to piece this stuff together.
[0:44:26 - 0:44:27] ▶
But yeah, I don't think it's up...
[0:44:27 - 0:44:31] ▶
I don't think he should be put in a position where he has to convince anyone.
[0:44:31 - 0:44:33] ▶
I think he said what he has to say, take it or leave it.
[0:44:33 - 0:44:36] ▶
I kind of agree that at this stage, I think he's just...
[0:44:37 - 0:44:40] ▶
He just wants to live a normal life, you know?
[0:44:40 - 0:44:43] ▶
He's not, you know, I don't know.
[0:44:45 - 0:44:49] ▶
He's not out there doing the convention tour or on a cruise ship.
[0:44:49 - 0:44:53] ▶
And he's still not a UFO guy.
[0:44:53 - 0:44:55] ▶
You know, he has United Nuclear, his own company, where he still does science stuff.
[0:44:58 - 0:45:02] ▶
Weren't they, like, selling some shit and they got, like, investigated because bad people were buying it or something like that?
[0:45:03 - 0:45:08] ▶
But that's not on him.
[0:45:09 - 0:45:10] ▶
He sells stuff to the government.
[0:45:10 - 0:45:11] ▶
He has government contracts.
[0:45:11 - 0:45:12] ▶
Yeah, it is so funny.
[0:45:13 - 0:45:14] ▶
He does, like, I think, uranium tests.
[0:45:14 - 0:45:17] ▶
They're, like, testing kits.
[0:45:18 - 0:45:19] ▶
They have, like, small traces amount of uranium.
[0:45:19 - 0:45:22] ▶
And they're for, like, calibration for, like, Geiger meters or whatever.
[0:45:22 - 0:45:24] ▶
They're, like, little cards.
[0:45:25 - 0:45:25] ▶
And, like, he'll sell those.
[0:45:25 - 0:45:27] ▶
He sells all sorts of, like, yeah, stuff like that.
[0:45:27 - 0:45:30] ▶
Like, really dangerous materials that he works with every day.
[0:45:30 - 0:45:33] ▶
So, even for people thinking, oh, he's not a scientist.
[0:45:33 - 0:45:35] ▶
Like, he's in the lab.
[0:45:35 - 0:45:37] ▶
Yeah, he's in that shit.
[0:45:37 - 0:45:37] ▶
I'd like to see you sit down with him one day.
[0:45:38 - 0:45:40] ▶
I think that'd be really cool.
[0:45:40 - 0:45:41] ▶
To, like, dig into it.
[0:45:42 - 0:45:42] ▶
Hopefully it's, like, fucking eight hours long, too.
[0:45:43 - 0:45:45] ▶
And then you were here, and on this date you were here.
[0:45:46 - 0:45:48] ▶
That'd be very cool to go through that.
[0:45:48 - 0:45:50] ▶
Because he's, you know, the little public stuff he's done, I'm sure a lot of people have seen, like, that Rogan episode.
[0:45:50 - 0:45:56] ▶
I think it's his most popular one ever.
[0:45:56 - 0:45:58] ▶
Like, he's a tough read.
[0:45:58 - 0:46:00] ▶
He's just, like, kind of, like you said, like, to you, when you got to spend a couple days with him, it's like, you know, he's no bullshit.
[0:46:00 - 0:46:06] ▶
Just kind of tells you what it is.
[0:46:06 - 0:46:07] ▶
But when you're just watching him, like, on camera for just, like, three hours, just kind of going through the story, he's got a real poker face, bro.
[0:46:07 - 0:46:15] ▶
I mean, it's like, it's like, maybe.
[0:46:15 - 0:46:17] ▶
You know, you're, like, kind of watching the whole time, like, eh, eh.
[0:46:19 - 0:46:22] ▶
Because it's, man, if, like I said, if 10% of that's true, it's.
[0:46:22 - 0:46:26] ▶
What the fuck else do we have?
[0:46:27 - 0:46:28] ▶
I think as far as, like, whistleblowers go, I think he's the most important whistleblower we've ever had.
[0:46:29 - 0:46:33] ▶
I can't think of a bigger, you know.
[0:46:33 - 0:46:37] ▶
Bigger story or claim.
[0:46:37 - 0:46:39] ▶
He did it the way that he's a true whistleblower.
[0:46:39 - 0:46:42] ▶
He didn't go through some government process.
[0:46:42 - 0:46:45] ▶
And I'm not denigrating any of those people, but it is what it is.
[0:46:46 - 0:46:49] ▶
You know, he came out and said everything that he could.
[0:46:50 - 0:46:53] ▶
And then people crucified him for it.
[0:46:53 - 0:46:55] ▶
You know, whereas if he would have went through a government-approved process, they would have still shat on him.
[0:46:55 - 0:47:03] ▶
What do you think of, what do you think of Grush?
[0:47:04 - 0:47:09] ▶
Obviously, it's not quite a story.
[0:47:10 - 0:47:12] ▶
No, but I think what he did was great.
[0:47:12 - 0:47:15] ▶
I think what he did was great, and I think it's a shame that more haven't.
[0:47:16 - 0:47:20] ▶
You know, I think him and Bob have something in common in that I believe they both felt that more people would follow up when they came out.
[0:47:21 - 0:47:33] ▶
I think Bob was hoping that more people from S4 would be like, yeah, me too.
[0:47:33 - 0:47:37] ▶
And I think Grush felt more people from the program would also be like, yeah, me too.
[0:47:38 - 0:47:41] ▶
And I don't think it happened.
[0:47:42 - 0:47:43] ▶
And I think that sucks, you know, if you're in that position.
[0:47:43 - 0:47:47] ▶
So there's a lot of things that happen behind the scenes, too.
[0:47:47 - 0:47:50] ▶
And I think people get wind of that, like, oh, fuck, I don't want that to happen to me.
[0:47:51 - 0:47:53] ▶
And you see, you know, the barrage that he had to, you know.
[0:47:54 - 0:47:58] ▶
And just for that, just to not deal with social media is a big enough reason not to come out.
[0:47:58 - 0:48:03] ▶
Just to be like, I don't want that.
[0:48:03 - 0:48:05] ▶
I don't want to have a Twitter profile now.
[0:48:05 - 0:48:07] ▶
And that's the thing, though, when you're making, when you're coming out with something that big, forget just the extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
[0:48:07 - 0:48:17] ▶
Every part of your life that's publicly available is going to be picked apart.
[0:48:18 - 0:48:21] ▶
And there's, I understand that.
[0:48:21 - 0:48:24] ▶
I can't imagine being in that position.
[0:48:26 - 0:48:28] ▶
That really does suck.
[0:48:28 - 0:48:29] ▶
But, like, it's relevant.
[0:48:29 - 0:48:31] ▶
You know what I mean?
[0:48:31 - 0:48:32] ▶
Like, who you are, where you're from, what your motives could be.
[0:48:32 - 0:48:35] ▶
And if you don't come out.
[0:48:35 - 0:48:36] ▶
Nobody knows that you know shit.
[0:48:36 - 0:48:38] ▶
So they're never going to be like, you got to talk.
[0:48:39 - 0:48:41] ▶
They'll just leave you alone.
[0:48:41 - 0:48:42] ▶
But the second you say, I might know something, now you're an asshole for not playing ball.
[0:48:43 - 0:48:47] ▶
Now you might go to jail if you say something.
[0:48:47 - 0:48:49] ▶
Now you're in this weird position.
[0:48:50 - 0:48:51] ▶
And, you know, we know people like that who, you know, they'll come out and they'll say a little bit of something.
[0:48:52 - 0:48:56] ▶
But now you're playing ball.
[0:48:57 - 0:48:58] ▶
Now we know you know.
[0:48:58 - 0:48:59] ▶
And now it's like everybody's judging you.
[0:48:59 - 0:49:00] ▶
Everybody's picking at your past and digging into everything you say in every interview and micro expressions.
[0:49:00 - 0:49:06] ▶
But if you just sit back, you don't got to say anything.
[0:49:07 - 0:49:10] ▶
And that's fine, too.
[0:49:11 - 0:49:12] ▶
So it's like, I get it.
[0:49:12 - 0:49:14] ▶
But that's why what Grush did and what Balazsar did, I mean, it takes some balls.
[0:49:15 - 0:49:20] ▶
And then, look, you're going to get some people that are just going to copycat that and jump on it and some that'll just straight up lie.
[0:49:22 - 0:49:28] ▶
And then you'll get some stories that aren't reliable to, which then can denigrate the original person through no fault of their own, which I think some of that's happened to David Grush.
[0:49:28 - 0:49:36] ▶
Because you did have, like, you're right.
[0:49:36 - 0:49:38] ▶
A lot of the people that he's referring to that he's like, I hope, and I don't know who these people are, but I hope they'll come out and talk about it.
[0:49:38 - 0:49:45] ▶
Clearly, all those people didn't.
[0:49:45 - 0:49:48] ▶
And of the people that have, there's been no one to come out since Grush that I think has anywhere near the level of, like, bullshit meter, you know, smell test credibility that he does.
[0:49:48 - 0:49:59] ▶
And we've seen several.
[0:49:59 - 0:50:00] ▶
But, like, it's also when you're in this space and you're getting sourcing now, a lot of the sourcing is coming from people that were in the government.
[0:50:00 - 0:50:13] ▶
That, you know, they probably still are in some cases.
[0:50:13 - 0:50:17] ▶
And they're compartmentalized, like we were talking about earlier with some of this stuff.
[0:50:18 - 0:50:22] ▶
And so, you know, if you're someone like James Fox, right, our mutual friend, he's a documentarian.
[0:50:22 - 0:50:28] ▶
He's not a government insider or, like, an insider in that case on UFOs.
[0:50:29 - 0:50:35] ▶
He has to go get the sources.
[0:50:35 - 0:50:36] ▶
So if you get, without naming names, certain people who had access to certain programs to tell you things that then seem reliable, and then those same people then end up feeding you things that are not reliable, it makes you question all of that.
[0:50:36 - 0:50:51] ▶
I know James, like, deals with that.
[0:50:51 - 0:50:53] ▶
All right, if that wasn't – I know this isn't true, but does that mean that's not true?
[0:50:54 - 0:50:59] ▶
That seemed more true.
[0:50:59 - 0:51:01] ▶
This one's – you know what I mean?
[0:51:01 - 0:51:02] ▶
It's a really tough game to play.
[0:51:02 - 0:51:03] ▶
That's why, you know, podcasting is easy for us because, you know, we can sit across somebody who's living a schizophrenic reality or is a government insider, you know, and it doesn't matter.
[0:51:04 - 0:51:18] ▶
Either way, it's entertaining.
[0:51:19 - 0:51:20] ▶
We can talk about things and discover things and hypothesize and theorize about whimsical realities.
[0:51:21 - 0:51:27] ▶
But, yeah, like, people like James, it makes it a little bit more tough because he's in those courtrooms and he's in, you know, those interviews with the military folk.
[0:51:27 - 0:51:36] ▶
And that's why I think the more I study this stuff, the further from that disclosure UAP team I'm going.
[0:51:36 - 0:51:50] ▶
And not because it isn't valuable.
[0:51:51 - 0:51:53] ▶
I think, sure, it's valuable.
[0:51:54 - 0:51:55] ▶
I just rather talk to a farmer than a lawmaker at the end of the day.
[0:51:57 - 0:52:01] ▶
Farmer than a lawmaker.
[0:52:02 - 0:52:03] ▶
They're just, you know, I don't know, somebody who's salt of the earth and just tells it like it is.
[0:52:04 - 0:52:10] ▶
You know, just because it comes from a guy in a suit who drafts up bills or whatever, it's not going to raise my conviction level.
[0:52:10 - 0:52:17] ▶
If anything, it'll lower it.
[0:52:17 - 0:52:19] ▶
So I think just talking to real people, experiencers, people who've, you know, had experiences and hearing them out and that's it.
[0:52:19 - 0:52:27] ▶
Let the people judge.
[0:52:28 - 0:52:29] ▶
Yeah, I think we're going to...
[0:52:29 - 0:52:30] ▶
You know, that's our part.
[0:52:30 - 0:52:33] ▶
The part that we play as podcasters in this disclosure forum, I think is just opening the conversation.
[0:52:33 - 0:52:41] ▶
I think that's a really important part to play is just to have a platform where it's okay.
[0:52:41 - 0:52:45] ▶
And now that, you know, someone says, oh, I was on the Julian Dory podcast and they go, oh, yeah, I like that guy.
[0:52:45 - 0:52:54] ▶
Yeah, he had a guy on there that was talking about aliens the other day.
[0:52:54 - 0:52:56] ▶
And it's like, it's not so insane, you know?
[0:52:57 - 0:52:59] ▶
And I think that's just in itself very important to just have that.
[0:52:59 - 0:53:04] ▶
And so I'm very happy with that.
[0:53:04 - 0:53:06] ▶
I'll leave the detective work to guys like UAP Gerb and, you know, and James Fox and those guys digging a little bit deeper than I ever, you know, could possibly, so...
[0:53:06 - 0:53:16] ▶
Because, like, I go way back with James Alessi, who used to be the in-studio producer and runs all my...
[0:53:18 - 0:53:26] ▶
He's, like, the head of content with me now.
[0:53:26 - 0:53:27] ▶
He was down in Brazil making moment of contact with James in July 2021.
[0:53:27 - 0:53:32] ▶
James came to my parents' house a few years ago, did a couple podcasts.
[0:53:33 - 0:53:36] ▶
That went nuts and all that.
[0:53:36 - 0:53:38] ▶
So, like, awesome guy, works his ass off, genuinely cares, and really is amazing at getting people to open up.
[0:53:38 - 0:53:48] ▶
And you see that in his work.
[0:53:48 - 0:53:50] ▶
And, like, whenever you're looking at anything, let alone something as wild as UFOs, doesn't matter who you are, you're never going to get it all right.
[0:53:50 - 0:53:58] ▶
Or there's going to be things that later you're like, eh, I thought maybe that could be something, but that's actually bullshit.
[0:53:58 - 0:54:02] ▶
But you know how people are on the Internet.
[0:54:02 - 0:54:04] ▶
They pick every fucking thing apart.
[0:54:04 - 0:54:06] ▶
And, like, James made another brilliantly put-together documentary with the program that had, by the way, had a lot of important storylines in it that absolutely have real verifiable stuff to it.
[0:54:07 - 0:54:19] ▶
But then also had Jason Sands in there.
[0:54:19 - 0:54:23] ▶
And this is where I ran into a problem because the people that brought James, Jason Sands, which are, I think, like, government suit type people like you were talking about, have brought him other stuff in the past that seemed more to pass the smell test.
[0:54:23 - 0:54:38] ▶
But then you see with Jason Sands and you realize that they knew that Jason had severe PTSD among other issues in his profile that would make him questionable at best as a witness.
[0:54:39 - 0:54:50] ▶
And then clearly someone who I don't think any of his story is real.
[0:54:50 - 0:54:56] ▶
I think it literally was all lifted from Gaia, and there's a whole explanation behind there.
[0:54:56 - 0:55:01] ▶
But, like, when those same people were pushing—literally, I know, pushing that shit down James's throat, like, yo, just hear him out, have him on this documentary.
[0:55:01 - 0:55:10] ▶
It's like, what does that mean about some of the other stuff that we thought was pretty good?
[0:55:11 - 0:55:16] ▶
Like, do you wrestle with that sometimes?
[0:55:16 - 0:55:18] ▶
I just kind of take it in.
[0:55:21 - 0:55:23] ▶
Like, I'm not—just because I hear a story doesn't mean I believe it.
[0:55:23 - 0:55:27] ▶
So I'm very happy to hear all the stories, even if they're true or not.
[0:55:27 - 0:55:30] ▶
I think true information is as valuable as somebody who's lying.
[0:55:30 - 0:55:36] ▶
I think if you're telling me the truth or lying, if I know you're lying because I can prove it, then that's valuable information, too.
[0:55:37 - 0:55:42] ▶
Just like you said, now that you have this, you're like, oh, now you start questioning the source.
[0:55:42 - 0:55:46] ▶
So I think it's important to get all this stuff.
[0:55:47 - 0:55:49] ▶
Just let's—I don't know.
[0:55:52 - 0:55:54] ▶
Let's just dissect what we have and speculate on what we have.
[0:55:54 - 0:55:58] ▶
I mean, there's nothing else we can do.
[0:55:58 - 0:55:59] ▶
This is all we got to play with.
[0:55:59 - 0:56:00] ▶
Like, I'm sitting here reading on Reddit and 4chan forums like I'm some type of researcher.
[0:56:00 - 0:56:06] ▶
You know what I mean?
[0:56:09 - 0:56:10] ▶
And people come down to me like that.
[0:56:10 - 0:56:11] ▶
They're like, hey, 4chan isn't legitimate sourcing.
[0:56:12 - 0:56:15] ▶
But it's all we got.
[0:56:16 - 0:56:17] ▶
I got some guy here claiming, so I'm going to take it.
[0:56:18 - 0:56:20] ▶
I'm going to read the whole thing.
[0:56:20 - 0:56:21] ▶
If something clicks, something clicks.
[0:56:22 - 0:56:23] ▶
And if it doesn't, whatever.
[0:56:24 - 0:56:25] ▶
I'm just—now I have more information than I did before.
[0:56:26 - 0:56:28] ▶
So that's how I kind of treat it all, whether it's the Jason Sands stuff or whatnot, I think.
[0:56:28 - 0:56:35] ▶
But I do hold witnesses that are outside of the government sphere in higher conviction than I would somebody within the government, for sure, for sure.
[0:56:36 - 0:56:47] ▶
You were talking earlier about the underwater aspect of this and how you'll see things that seem to appear from there and show up when there could be a nuclear test.
[0:56:47 - 0:57:01] ▶
Or you talk about laser beams and stuff like that that could be going off.
[0:57:01 - 0:57:05] ▶
And it's like they show up.
[0:57:05 - 0:57:06] ▶
And then, of course, we all always think about the fact that 95% of the ocean is completely unknown to us.
[0:57:06 - 0:57:12] ▶
It's like what the fuck could be down there.
[0:57:12 - 0:57:14] ▶
Do you think that—not necessarily all of it, but some of it could be like DARPA, who could be 40, 50 years ahead of us in technology and at least we have it?
[0:57:14 - 0:57:31] ▶
Well, I think they're—yes, definitely.
[0:57:31 - 0:57:34] ▶
I think we've been exploring the ocean since the 50s as well with technology, with ground penetrating radar or sonar or whatever down there looking for crafts that we lost in terms of rockets.
[0:57:36 - 0:57:54] ▶
So we've been exploring that quite a bit.
[0:57:54 - 0:57:58] ▶
And, yeah, I think it would be safe to assume that once or twice we've mistaken their technology for ours or ours for theirs or adversarial technology.
[0:57:59 - 0:58:09] ▶
Like, definitely, I think that there's—you know, we're at least 30 years ahead in tech, I would say.
[0:58:10 - 0:58:18] ▶
What does that mean for something like AI then?
[0:58:19 - 0:58:22] ▶
Yeah, I think that means exactly what that means for AI.
[0:58:24 - 0:58:26] ▶
Like, are we living in AI's reality and have been for a while and we just don't know it?
[0:58:26 - 0:58:31] ▶
I would assume—I would hope to think that if we did reach, you know, zero point on AI or whatever or the, you know, the peak of creating artificial intelligence that we would hear about it instantly, I would think.
[0:58:33 - 0:58:48] ▶
Like, that would just change everything.
[0:58:48 - 0:58:50] ▶
It would exponentially grow and just, like, take over everything immediately.
[0:58:50 - 0:58:54] ▶
But in the event that we—in the event that we wouldn't find out, then I think, yeah, it does exist.
[0:58:55 - 0:59:00] ▶
For sure, whatever the government has is better than what we have.
[0:59:02 - 0:59:06] ▶
We know that, right?
[0:59:07 - 0:59:08] ▶
That's why, like, when I listen to David Fravor's testimony, he's always really stood out to me because he's just, like, describing what he saw.
[0:59:08 - 0:59:15] ▶
And then he gives you, you know, the actual video of, like, here's what it was, here's where it moved.
[0:59:16 - 0:59:19] ▶
And he's like, listen, it could be alien.
[0:59:20 - 0:59:22] ▶
It's something that we definitely didn't know about technology-wise, so what the fuck is it?
[0:59:22 - 0:59:26] ▶
You know what I mean?
[0:59:26 - 0:59:27] ▶
Like, that's—there's a real open-minded nature to what he's revealing there that I think, you know, in the Gimble video, obviously.
[0:59:27 - 0:59:33] ▶
And he's like, it is not Lockheed Martin.
[0:59:34 - 0:59:36] ▶
But it's like, what's he even read in on?
[0:59:37 - 0:59:43] ▶
You know what I mean?
[0:59:43 - 0:59:44] ▶
Like, he knows he's still a pilot.
[0:59:44 - 0:59:46] ▶
He's not the fucking president or the CIA.
[0:59:46 - 0:59:49] ▶
So it's like, what are they not even telling the guys whose job it is to patrol the air about?
[0:59:49 - 0:59:54] ▶
Or is it just straight up like, oh, that's from another place, which could be the explanation?
[0:59:54 - 1:00:00] ▶
I think, I think probably some people do know.
[1:00:02 - 1:00:05] ▶
I just, I can't even speculate if it's from us.
[1:00:06 - 1:00:10] ▶
I don't think it's from us.
[1:00:10 - 1:00:12] ▶
I don't think that stuff, especially the stuff that comes out of the water.
[1:00:12 - 1:00:14] ▶
I think, you know, if you want to look for a reference, I think look at Richard Dolan's work.
[1:00:14 - 1:00:21] ▶
He's got a lot of work on underwater submerged objects.
[1:00:21 - 1:00:25] ▶
I would just assume that anything that's down there has been down there for a very long time is my guess.
[1:00:28 - 1:00:34] ▶
I think that a lot of the craft that we've retrieved has been from in the water.
[1:00:35 - 1:00:39] ▶
Why do you think that?
[1:00:40 - 1:00:41] ▶
UAP Gerb did a lot of big deep dives on some of that stuff.
[1:00:42 - 1:00:45] ▶
Bob Lazar also says that he believes that, well, first of all, the checks were made out from, I think, the Office of Naval Intelligence or the Department of Naval Intelligence to Bob Lazar.
[1:00:45 - 1:00:58] ▶
So the Navy is massively involved.
[1:00:58 - 1:01:00] ▶
It's not the Air Force.
[1:01:00 - 1:01:02] ▶
They're probably both dealing with their own things and don't even talk to each other about it.
[1:01:02 - 1:01:06] ▶
But the Navy, I think, has probably the most advanced technology in terms of, like, reverse engineering UFOs.
[1:01:06 - 1:01:14] ▶
If that's the situation, it's definitely the Navy.
[1:01:14 - 1:01:17] ▶
But then how do you explain things like Right Pat and stuff like that?
[1:01:17 - 1:01:20] ▶
Again, Air Force probably has some stuff, but I think the Navy's been pulling stuff out of the water for a very long time.
[1:01:21 - 1:01:27] ▶
There's a lot going on in the oceans, I think.
[1:01:28 - 1:01:31] ▶
And I think we're starting to hear about it more and more.
[1:01:31 - 1:01:33] ▶
When something crashes in the water, it doesn't really blow up.
[1:01:35 - 1:01:37] ▶
So it might be easier to grab what's in the water.
[1:01:40 - 1:01:43] ▶
Now, that was what you mentioned this earlier.
[1:01:45 - 1:01:47] ▶
That was what Lou was talking about with Project Interloper, where the proposal was to, like, go out into the ocean, run some sort of nuclear simulation.
[1:01:47 - 1:01:58] ▶
Yeah, even just have nukes out there.
[1:01:58 - 1:02:00] ▶
Have nukes and, like, try to draw.
[1:02:00 - 1:02:02] ▶
Yeah, and then they said that they canceled that.
[1:02:04 - 1:02:06] ▶
That was convenient.
[1:02:08 - 1:02:08] ▶
Yeah, they said, ah, you know, never mind.
[1:02:08 - 1:02:11] ▶
Don't worry about it.
[1:02:12 - 1:02:13] ▶
We're not going to do that.
[1:02:13 - 1:02:14] ▶
Nothing to see here.
[1:02:14 - 1:02:15] ▶
You won't even try it?
[1:02:15 - 1:02:16] ▶
Nah, we won't even try it, I think.
[1:02:16 - 1:02:18] ▶
What do you think of Lou?
[1:02:18 - 1:02:19] ▶
You've had him in, too.
[1:02:20 - 1:02:21] ▶
I think he's a nice guy.
[1:02:21 - 1:02:22] ▶
I think he's a very nice guy.
[1:02:22 - 1:02:23] ▶
I think he's a nice guy, too.
[1:02:23 - 1:02:24] ▶
I think he's a nice guy.
[1:02:25 - 1:02:27] ▶
I think he's a nice guy.
[1:02:27 - 1:02:27] ▶
You know, I'm not going to comment on, you know, whether...
[1:02:27 - 1:02:34] ▶
Listen, he worked counterintelligence.
[1:02:34 - 1:02:35] ▶
And that, as someone who is skeptical of things, of the nature of what we're being told, I have to be skeptical of what he says.
[1:02:37 - 1:02:47] ▶
But that's a general skepticism that I hold for anyone in counterintelligence, not specifically to Lou.
[1:02:48 - 1:02:54] ▶
I think you have to have that for all of them.
[1:02:57 - 1:02:58] ▶
But, you know, would gladly have dinner with him.
[1:03:00 - 1:03:02] ▶
He's a really nice guy.
[1:03:03 - 1:03:04] ▶
He's been nice to me.
[1:03:05 - 1:03:06] ▶
He's been nothing but kind to me.
[1:03:06 - 1:03:07] ▶
You know, he did the podcast when it was like in the early stages.
[1:03:08 - 1:03:12] ▶
So, you know, he really, he came through there.
[1:03:12 - 1:03:16] ▶
I can't, yeah, I can't knock him for that.
[1:03:16 - 1:03:18] ▶
As far as anything else goes, I mean, I think there are enough people on Twitter talking about that guy.
[1:03:18 - 1:03:23] ▶
I don't want to be a part of it.
[1:03:23 - 1:03:26] ▶
It's such a negative culture within, like, the whole, like, UFO thing.
[1:03:26 - 1:03:31] ▶
I stay the fuck out of it.
[1:03:31 - 1:03:32] ▶
I've seen it before.
[1:03:33 - 1:03:34] ▶
Again, it's what we were talking about before.
[1:03:35 - 1:03:36] ▶
I just want to talk about people.
[1:03:36 - 1:03:37] ▶
You know, if Lou comes out and has, like, you know, some groundbreaking news, we can talk about that.
[1:03:38 - 1:03:47] ▶
You know, but as far as his character goes, I don't know him well enough to talk about that.
[1:03:47 - 1:03:52] ▶
I think he was nice to me, and I'll leave it at that.
[1:03:52 - 1:03:54] ▶
I think it's another thing of where people want things to be zero or 100 and things can be a mixed bag.
[1:03:54 - 1:03:59] ▶
I would like to think so.
[1:04:01 - 1:04:01] ▶
I've said that to his face on camera and off camera, and I feel pretty strongly that that is the case without knowing the full details of whatever it is that he's involved or isn't involved with now.
[1:04:02 - 1:04:12] ▶
You know, so it's like, take what he says, do with it what you will.
[1:04:13 - 1:04:17] ▶
I think that's kind of our job, put it out there for people to decide.
[1:04:17 - 1:04:20] ▶
If they want to fight over that, they can fight over that.
[1:04:20 - 1:04:22] ▶
I think it just gets, like, you know, sometimes, like, especially with, you know, people fighting over him and stuff, I'm just like, all right, go out and touch some grass, people.
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You know what I mean?
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Like, there's better things to be fighting over here.
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You know, if you don't like his information, no problem.
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Like, you know, there's the picture, I think, was the latest one, right, where he showed the crop circle type deal.
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I thought it was real.
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I was thinking of the dead babies one.
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Which, by the way, that is not – people were saying he passed something to me in episode 273.
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No, they thought it was that.
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Where I couldn't say what it was.
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He's like, if I show you this, you can't say, and I look, and you just had me reacting.
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That is not what he showed me.
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What he showed me, all I'll say – I can't say what it was, but it was something that had words on it.
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That's all I'll say.
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So, it was not that.
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But, like, when I saw that, I was like –
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I was never shown anything, so.
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I was never sent a text with a weird image or any of that.
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When I saw that image of the crop circles, I was like – at first, I was like, oh, it's really – like –
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and then I tweeted it, and then I was like – looking further, I was like, oh, it's a pretty good illusion.
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It is a really good illusion.
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It's a good optical illusion.
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And then I tweeted, oh, yeah, case solved.
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And that's – for me, that's all I cared about was the information.
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Let's look at the information.
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Oh, we found where it comes from.
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And some people are like, well, you got to – we got to talk about where – no, you just got to do your own research.
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And, like, that's it.
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Why do anything more?
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And obviously, after things like that happen, I think naturally people's conviction level will lower with all the information that he puts out.
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And that's a shame to him if he's trying to put out truthful information.
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It's a shame for us receiving that truthful information because now it has to go through the filter of all this other stuff that showed up not to be true.
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And so it's just unfortunate is what it is, but I – there's no reason to crucify the guy for that.
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I think you can just make your own decisions and move on with your life.
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Chris, it's been a lot of fun, man.
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You are a fountain of information on this stuff, so it's fun talking with you about it.
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Your show is amazing.
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We'll have that link down below.
[1:06:35 - 1:06:37] ▶
We're also going to link your old YouTube channel too.
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So people can go watch all the stuff you do.
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You're blowing my mind a few times today.
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So I guess thanks for that.
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But it's great to finally meet you, man.
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I've appreciated your support from afar and everything.
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It's been really cool.
[1:06:50 - 1:06:50] ▶
It's nice to put a name with the face.
[1:06:50 - 1:06:52] ▶
Love what you're doing here, and thank you to your audience for letting me have a space to chat about my shit.
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Everyone go check out Debriefed and Area 52 Production.
[1:06:59 - 1:07:03] ▶
Everyone else, you know what it is.
[1:07:05 - 1:07:06] ▶
Thank you guys for watching the episode.
[1:07:08 - 1:07:10] ▶
If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video.
[1:07:10 - 1:07:14] ▶
They're both a huge, huge help.
[1:07:14 - 1:07:16] ▶
And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.
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