Transcript: UFOs at the border: Whistleblower's new video | Reality Check

G'day and welcome back to Reality Check. I'm your host, Roskultart. And today, the first

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in a series of interviews, we're going to be running with some of the people who featured

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in our recent Arizona border special. Bob Thompson is an army veteran who served for 14 years

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with the US Customs and Border Protection as part of the Tucson Arizona Sector's Special

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Operations Detachment Mobile Response Team, focusing on counterterrorism and drug interdiction.

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He eventually became part of the Arizona Air Coordination Center, which monitors the airspace

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along the US border with Mexico. And it's in the course of that important work that he came

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across evidence of anomalous objects recorded and tracked by surveillance aircraft, including

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what has become known as the Rubber Ducky. Inside Border Patrol, Bob became concerned that his

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superiors weren't that concerned about these unexplained objects hovering near the border,

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because surely, if there is anything like that in an airspace, it should be a national security

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concern if unidentified objects are hovering in our airspace near the border. He wrote a report

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for his boss detailing what he'd discovered, and eventually he'd got permission to share

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what he'd discovered. It's rare to get an insider with Bob Thompson's knowledge and experience

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to go on the record. This is the first time he's allowed himself to be identified publicly,

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and today you can see those videos and hear his full story on record for the first time. He is Bob

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Thompson. Bob, let's establish your credentials. Who are you? What was your role in border protection?

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So I am a retired Border Patrol agent. I worked for the United States Border Patrol for 14 years,

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and I worked on my last assignment with the Special Operations Detachment and the Tucson

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Sector of Border Patrol. I started in January of 2008 and retired in January of 2022.

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During that time, I served on different special operations teams at the station level,

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including ATVs, mountain teams, border awareness and intelligence teams, and like I said,

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the last part of it I was flying for the Border Patrol and also had the ability to help out and

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start out a system that they called the Air Coordination Center. That was something that was going

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to involve all the flight stuff that was in Tucson Sector of Border Patrol. Your job required you

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to have a security clearance? Absolutely. You had a top secret SCI clearance? Nope, just a regular

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classified top secret. You were a respected Border Patrol. Yes, sir. Yeah, I worked as a

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paramedic on special operations attachment for a group called the Mobile Response Team, which is

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one of the three tiers of the special operations for Border Patrol. So I was kind of our team medic,

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the only paramedic that we had on that team. So I had the ability to take care of both the bad guys

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and the good guys. Before you got into this topic, what was the attitude inside the Border Patrol

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Organization to the subject of unidentified anomalous phenomena? I would say nonexistent.

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Nonexistent. There wasn't any attitude because no one really disgusted openly.

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So what got you into it? Me personally, I was always interested in the topic and had,

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you know, I've had sightings of anomalous objects myself all throughout my life.

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On the job as well? On the job as well, yes. What did you say? I've seen orbs, I've seen

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strange lights that were, you know, just bright and hovering takeoff stuff that maybe was,

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could have been satellites that moved in ways that weren't like satellites. A lot of stuff at night.

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And we also had the ability to use some of the technology to see some of these things as well.

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So where you were operating is quite an interesting and unusual area. You were operating along the

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border with Mexico, ensuring the border was secure, but you were also adjacent to some key

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military training ranges, weren't you? That's correct. We were responsible for areas that included

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the Berry Goldwater Range and a lot of the military areas of operation along the border are

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air corridors, flight paths for jets that come down from Luke Air Force Base, Davis Mountain Air Force

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Base, and the Yuma activities as well out with the Marines. So there's vast areas, remote parts of

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Arizona, which are being used by the Air Force and other military agencies to train military pilots.

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That's correct. All kinds of different platforms and we would see while we flew out there.

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And in the middle of all of this, you're flying there with what kind of aircraft and what kind

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of capabilities? Well, the ones that I mainly flew on were helicopters. So when I was flying with

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a National Guard, we flew on the U-872 Lakota, which is kind of a standard utility helicopter for the

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air or the Army National Guard. We also flew on the U-H60 Black Hawk helicopters to an apprehension

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stuff as well as fixed wings that involved the RC-26 Metroliner and Huise as well, U-H1 Huise.

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And what kind of kit do you have on those helicopters so that our audience can understand the

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capabilities without giving away any national security issues? What kind of things can these

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equipment do? Well, they have the ability of seeing in the dark and seeing different thermal

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spectrums with things. So the common terminology that a lot of people here is the FLIR, the forward

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looking infrared. So some of those platforms had cameras on board that utilize a sensor operator to

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look for targets that were on the ground as in or in the air. So you've got sophisticated surveillance

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gear. Absolutely. It allows you to look on the ground and in the air. And in addition, you had

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the pilots wearing VGs as well as the crew members as well. So they're standing...

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They're standing...

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...finding what VGs. Night vision goggles. And what are that?

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They give you the ability to see in the dark.

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Okay, so you've got a pretty formidable amount of equipment there that allows you to see

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what's out there. That's correct. What is out there?

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Well, me personally, I've seen, like I said, orbs that were often the distance. I've seen

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craft that were cigar shaped. I've seen triangles myself. I've never been able to record them

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personally, but you know, with videos that I have seen from other agents show some of that stuff.

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Now, during your role in Boda Protection, they came a time when you suggested to your

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superiors that you start preparing some kind of research report into what was being seen.

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I did. When I... when I was working for what they call the Arizona Air Coordination Center,

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I was kind of solicited for the ability to put together a report, what they call an issue paper,

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and get that subject kind of on the record. And we were having incidences where the potential

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could be there for a strike from, say, a small UAS. And it kind of fit into that program. So...

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So there was a concern among pilots? Safety concerns.

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That there might be a collision with these objects that we're seeing.

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There could be. But we were also operating what they call small UASs or small unmanned aerial

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surveillance vehicles. So... This is an important issue. Not only is this a national security issue,

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because you've got unknown objects operating, but only in secure military areas, but along

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the border with Mexico, there's also a flight safety issue.

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Well, and like I said, there's so many platforms that are down and around out there,

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but they aircraft have their safety systems that they worry about. But you also have, like I said,

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you have guys on the ground, board of virtual agents that are operating, you know, their drone,

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surveillance, as well in the apprehension of... How many agents did you end up speaking to in

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border protection who had seen anomalous objects? At least a hundred. At least a hundred. Wow.

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And a lot of those are, you know, personal friends and stuff as well. And what sort of things

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were they telling you? Well, for example, small triangles is, you know, something that we haven't

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really heard a lot about. Maybe Jeremy Corbell reported some of those small triangles that were

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hovered above the ships. These were small triangles that were flying over agents. In addition to that,

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they had... And just so- Large triangles. With those small triangles, whatever size they were,

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without showing any visible means of propulsion. Nope. When they were showing on flue,

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forward looking infrared, was there any visible heat source? I'm not aware of anyone tracking any

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of the small triangles on flier, but they may have seen them with the night vision goggles.

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I know for a fact that one of the guys looked at these things with night vision goggles and he

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didn't see any type of propulsion or anything on them. They would kind of silently moving around

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the desert. So this is being discussed inside border protection amongst the guys, yes. As an

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issue of concern? Well, in speculation as to what they could be as well, I don't think anyone

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that I came across from a ground agent standpoint, thought they were a safety concern, you know,

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for them it became more of a concern for the stuff that was flying around in the air. The pilots

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had more of a concern for any more about than anything. You mentioned some of these agents were also

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seeing larger black triangles. You mentioned some of these agents were also seeing larger triangles.

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That's correct. I have a personal friend that was out west of, or east of Yuma, Arizona, out on

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patrol out there and had a very large triangle fly over him. How nice. Silent. The way he described it

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was at least a hundred feet, maybe 50 to a hundred feet wide, silent, flying right over him. No

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lights on. Night time? Night time. Using night vision goggles? No, they saw it personally without

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anything right over the top of them. I mean, that, by definition, is extraordinary. I mean, it's

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unusual. It's a craft of some kind. It's a craft, but like we've talked about already, there is a

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large military training area out there, so could it be something that the military was testing?

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It's a distinct possibility. But when he saw that large black triangle, did he hear any noise?

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No noise at all. Silly. See a propulsion system. No propulsion system. And it wasn't just him.

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There was two people out there that saw it at the same time. And you spoke to both? I didn't

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get to speak to the other one. The other one was his friend. How often were the witnesses that

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you spoke to corroborated by other agents? A lot of times there were multiple agents that saw

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stuff at the same time. I have a story about a supervisor that I was with that we saw stuff come

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out of the sky down in Sonoita. Two objects came down. They were just lights came straight

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down out of the sky and then moved horizontally and disappeared behind some mountains. Both of us

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were sitting there in a truck and neither of us could come to an explanation of what that was.

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So I'm not making any criticism of you here, but you're part of Homeland Security when you're

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working for Border Protection, aren't you? You are. I'm retired now. I just want to make that.

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Yes. So this is after 9-11 protecting our borders is sacrosanct.

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Absolutely. An unknown by definition. Is a threat? Absolutely.

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So what was going on inside the organization when agents were reporting this to you as part of

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your research? Well, I explained that I was gathering information in a certain sense, but I also

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made it very personal because it was something that the agents didn't freely talk about. So if I

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shared experiences that I had, it seemed you could open up agents to have them share their experiences.

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I knew I wasn't the only one that saw things. I just want to explore that with you. So they didn't

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want to talk about it. No one likes to talk about it freely. Why? I think it's just still a taboo

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subject because I'm sorry, I'm sorry, by definition though. If you see a gigantic 100-foot craft

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black triangle of some kind hovering over you in the desert in the middle of Arizona,

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that's a national security issue, isn't it? Consensus being a training range, I think there's

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a lot of agents that think that maybe just stuff that were flying ourselves. But you can't make

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that assumption. You can't make that assumption. It wasn't hostile. Put it that way. If these guys were

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describing hostile events to them, I think we would be having a different conversation.

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But I mean, but they're not. Most of them are just sightings that occur, you know, and they're

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kind of non-events. They'll see something that flies over. Sure, it's a safety concern, but,

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you know, it's not a concern for the agents at the time. But I mean, if a plane load of al-Qaeda

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terrorists is coming over the border, you guys would be, that would be hot-truck. You'd be

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pulling all the alarms. You'd be making sure that whatever the hell it is, it stopped. We'd certainly

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be making the notifications to the right people. I don't think the border patrols capable of

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combatant, you know, Taliban, but we would make the appropriate notifications. But you understand

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what I'm saying here. Absolutely. There's this huge issue, hundreds of reports.

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Agents are seeing these things. I would have thought there was an obligation to report them.

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The problem was we didn't have any reporting requirements for that. If it didn't have a

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nexus to smuggling routes, I don't think anyone wanted to say on the record that they'd seen a

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large triangle flying over them. And who would you report that to? What is the, there wasn't a means,

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there wasn't a means to report it. Now, the thing that really struck me and forgive me, Miguel,

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if I'd go on this division, but it's important. Are you aware that the US Air Force was also seeing

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strange objects on these ranges? Only through open source media, I was aware of the drive,

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publish in an article about stuff that they saw out in the West Desert training area, which

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really corresponded to what our pilots were seeing as well. So I am aware of that. I mean, what's

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interesting is the war zone, which is an excellent online periodical. It reported on what it described

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as drone swarms over not just training areas, but the Palo Verde nuclear plant in Arizona.

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That's called a time since September 2019. So something, whatever it is, is hovering over an

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extremely sensitive nuclear facility. Was that an issue in Homeland Security to border protection?

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Well, nuclear power plants are a little outside our purview, but stuff along the border

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certainly was. I never had anyone say that they reported drone swarms. Most of the reports that I

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saw were singular loan items or loan objects. There was also commercial reports coming in. It was

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the crew of an American Airlines flight on a Phoenix air charter business jet. They reported an

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encounter with a UAP in the southern part of the state in the border with New Mexico the year before.

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I mean, this is amazing. There's stuff all the time in this guy's over Arizona. There's obviously

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something going on in Arizona along the border areas, more than just illegal immigration.

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One of the things I was really impressed with was the fact that the war zone obtained on FOI,

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safety reports from the US Air Force, which showed that on one occasion, one of these objects

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hit the cockpit window of an IF-16 fighter jet. How do you have the hood of those kind of incidents?

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I have not heard of that personally. I don't know if I'd be purviewed to the Air Force's

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safety reports, and I don't remember any open source information about that specific event you

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were talking about, but did you approach the Air Force at all? No, we did not have a relationship

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per se with the Air Force. At least I did. I know we had military liaisons that worked for

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Tucson sector. That might have been in their wheelhouse, but it wasn't in mind. But this is

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what worries me is the whole lesson from 9-11 was that you had individual agencies

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finding out things about the al-Qaeda terrorists and not sharing it with other agencies.

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And I'm not saying this is a terrorist incident what we're talking about here, but you've got

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homeland security becoming aware of strange anomalous objects in this guy. You've got the Air Force

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FOI safety reports talking about anomalous objects in this guy. They call them UASs or drones.

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But it doesn't appear to be any evidence that they are identified as drones. And some of these

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objects are operating at 17,000, 20,000, 33,000, 36,000 feet. Does anyone drone and operate at that

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feet? None that I know of, at least when I was working for the Border Patrol, we did not have

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any drones that went that high, that were commercial, small, or otherwise for the most part. We did have

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other surveillance platforms that flew for Department of Homeland Security, but they weren't tied to any

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type of drone that moved in a quadcopter type fashion or otherwise. And here's another US Air Force

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report which was obtained on FOI. March 2021, two pilots in F-35s are flying near Casa Grande

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in Arizona between Phoenix and Tucson. They report seeing a large white UAS stationery at 24,000 feet.

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It's pretty interesting. That was probably on the route down to the Barry Goldwater range or

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heading south. That would be my guess. That's a little far north of the border. Casa Grande's a

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little bit further north from where we were at, but it's still in the general area. They were

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probably in route down to the training zone. But what's interesting is there are things called

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haters, hazardous air traffic reports, which have been obtained by journalists from the US Air Force.

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And there's a succession. In fact, there's a blizzard of reports from the US Air Force talking about

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how F-35 jets have had to evasively maneuver to avoid clusters of small UAP objects or UAS objects.

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At ridiculous altitudes, 20,000, 30,000 feet. These don't sound like commercial or even known

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military drones, do they? No, they don't. And typically the border patrol agents aren't looking

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up at, they're not looking straight up at 30,000 feet or 25,000 feet either. So that would be

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definitely out of their kind of line of sight for the most part. What I find fascinating is the

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Air Force, the US Air Force, is clearly seeing the same things as your colleagues were, your agents

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in the border protection force with homeland security. And nobody's talking to each other.

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It's a mystery. There's a fighter pilot from the US Air Force who puts in a hazardous air traffic

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report. At 21,000 feet, he sees a small black metallic object. That's all it says.

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It's never explained. And yet we know these things are operating in secure air training areas,

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adjacent to the border with Mexico. By definition, that's a national security flight safety

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concern, isn't it? I would think so. So I think I've made the point that I wanted to make with the Air Force

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reports. Basically, there's an independent series of corroborative reports which prove that what

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your border patrol officers were seeing was being corroborated at the same time by the US Air Force.

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Now in my book, that's what we call data evidence. True, I would say so.

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So what happens? You write your report? I didn't get a chance to finish my report

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rust because I had to medically retire from the border patrol. So I'm hoping that got carried on

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and someone was able to help get reporting requirements into operation within the Tucson sector.

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We do know that the Department of Homeland Security at a very, very high level

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was considering beginning its own investigations into UAPs because we know it's now official

[0:21:07 - 0:21:14] ▶

that there were approaches by people who were concerned about this issue from defence that this

[0:21:14 - 0:21:20] ▶

should be investigated. There was a push inside DHS to begin an investigation and it was allegedly

[0:21:20 - 0:21:27] ▶

shut down. Does it concern you that this was shut down? I think yes because I think the Department

[0:21:27 - 0:21:34] ▶

of Homeland Security could have a pivotal role in maybe an early warning for something like this

[0:21:34 - 0:21:39] ▶

occurring. If there are, as we have shown stuff flying around in the skies of Arizona that we don't

[0:21:39 - 0:21:47] ▶

know what it is, I think it's imperative that someone do try to discover what this is and if the

[0:21:47 - 0:21:53] ▶

Department of Homeland Security could play a role in doing that, I can't see why you would exclude

[0:21:53 - 0:21:58] ▶

them from that. Well, the Department of Homeland Security was conceived out of a national tragedy.

[0:21:58 - 0:22:03] ▶

And the reason why that national tragedy, 9-11, occurred, miscommunication. We were asleep at the

[0:22:04 - 0:22:09] ▶

wheel. Sleep at the wheel. Intelligence agencies weren't talking to each other. And prima facie,

[0:22:09 - 0:22:15] ▶

what you're telling me is proof of that. That's right. I know you hadn't finished your report,

[0:22:15 - 0:22:21] ▶

but what were your impressions? What were your conclusions at the point where you'd gathered all this

[0:22:21 - 0:22:25] ▶

data? I think I was at the point that it was a safety concern for stuff that was flying around

[0:22:25 - 0:22:31] ▶

out there. I was more concerned about our pilots and my team members that were flying aboard these

[0:22:31 - 0:22:36] ▶

aircraft and making sure that they were safe. If they saw something that was a near miss or

[0:22:36 - 0:22:42] ▶

close encounter, I wanted them to be able to report it and have that data flow to the right resources

[0:22:42 - 0:22:47] ▶

that could possibly use it. That was, you know, my only goal was the safety considerations.

[0:22:47 - 0:22:53] ▶

Now, as I understand it, your security classification gave you access to video archives.

[0:22:53 - 0:22:58] ▶

I did. I did a lot of data mining looking for, you know, videos that would support the cases

[0:22:58 - 0:23:05] ▶

to why we need these reporting requirements. So you have to build a case and that was basically

[0:23:05 - 0:23:09] ▶

what that issue paper is doing is making a case for why we need to do something like this. And I

[0:23:09 - 0:23:14] ▶

think that the data showed that there were things that were flying around out there along the

[0:23:14 - 0:23:20] ▶

border that were concerned that probably should be on people's radar. And by definition,

[0:23:20 - 0:23:26] ▶

let's be clear about this. You weren't skulking around the archives improperly. You had authorisation

[0:23:26 - 0:23:31] ▶

to make the... I had access to all the all the information that I needed to, not as much as I'd

[0:23:31 - 0:23:36] ▶

like to, but I found a fair amount that supported the case I was trying to make with that report.

[0:23:36 - 0:23:41] ▶

So your bosses were supportive? I would say yes. And this is a round about the time as I understand it,

[0:23:41 - 0:23:47] ▶

when the independent office of the Director of National Intelligence, ODNI, 2021,

[0:23:47 - 0:23:57] ▶

they published a report acknowledging that UAPs, unidentified anomalous phenomena, are real.

[0:23:57 - 0:24:06] ▶

That's correct. And he also made the recommendation that there would be reporting requirements

[0:24:07 - 0:24:13] ▶

established at the same time as well. So preemptively, I started working on that for

[0:24:13 - 0:24:19] ▶

two-sign sector at least. So you had support from your bosses inside border protection.

[0:24:19 - 0:24:23] ▶

And more importantly, again, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence was an office

[0:24:24 - 0:24:29] ▶

that was set up to deal with the catastrophe, the failures of 9-11. It was an intelligence

[0:24:29 - 0:24:37] ▶

ZAR, above the Defence Department, above the intelligence community, entrusted with protecting

[0:24:37 - 0:24:44] ▶

America. Correct? That's correct. And so ODNI was saying, this is real. And it was all government

[0:24:44 - 0:24:52] ▶

agencies. It wasn't just specific ones. But it was mandating. We want reporting. That's correct.

[0:24:52 - 0:24:57] ▶

We want offices and agencies to report this. That's correct. And you did. I did.

[0:24:57 - 0:25:02] ▶

So there came a time when you came across a cluster of videos that you thought were important.

[0:25:02 - 0:25:08] ▶

There was. I had enough evidence I thought and asked around whether I could use these or show

[0:25:10 - 0:25:17] ▶

these in any form or fashion. And I got a verbal permission. It might not have been the way the

[0:25:17 - 0:25:21] ▶

government releases stuff. But at that time, I asked permission to show them to friends, family,

[0:25:21 - 0:25:28] ▶

other people, and you know, use them for this report. And I was given permission.

[0:25:28 - 0:25:33] ▶

With the videos carrying any kind of top secret, we're above classification.

[0:25:33 - 0:25:37] ▶

There are stuff in those videos that are law enforcement sensitive. And I made sure to take care

[0:25:37 - 0:25:44] ▶

with that stuff. So you acted responsibly at no stage. Did you do anything that breached your

[0:25:44 - 0:25:48] ▶

security eyes? I would say no. Good. You made a decision to provide those videos to a colleague,

[0:25:48 - 0:25:59] ▶

didn't you? I did. I met a guy by the name of Annie Marshal and who ran a social media account

[0:25:59 - 0:26:06] ▶

and showed him those videos. He was one of the ones that got to see those. Why did you do that?

[0:26:06 - 0:26:11] ▶

I just believed in what he was doing. He ran a very interesting social media platform.

[0:26:12 - 0:26:18] ▶

He was very thorough in looking at all the videos. I thought he used discernment.

[0:26:19 - 0:26:25] ▶

He was a tough talk in New Yorker. And I thought he was the perfect person to show these too.

[0:26:25 - 0:26:29] ▶

And I got to, you know, wanted to also get a different opinion about what they may be from

[0:26:29 - 0:26:33] ▶

a civilian perspective as well. As a member of the media. Can I ask, why didn't you go to the media?

[0:26:33 - 0:26:38] ▶

Well, at the time, I think they were reporting it in a different way than I was comfortable with

[0:26:40 - 0:26:48] ▶

releasing them too. There was a sensationalism about it and I didn't want it to be wrapped up in

[0:26:48 - 0:26:54] ▶

any biased or sensational piece of news. Were you worried that the media wouldn't be taking

[0:26:54 - 0:27:01] ▶

these seriously? I mean, it seems to be a sad history of media ridiculing and stigmatizing.

[0:27:01 - 0:27:06] ▶

Well, that too. And there's also the fact that these videos don't show some of the profound things

[0:27:06 - 0:27:11] ▶

that have been, you know, labeled, such as the five observables. One of them does. One of the

[0:27:11 - 0:27:16] ▶

videos does show that, but the other ones don't show those direct five observables, which, you know,

[0:27:16 - 0:27:24] ▶

gives you pause and kind of boxes them in in a sense. And I felt they were profound enough and

[0:27:24 - 0:27:32] ▶

didn't show anything that the majority of the people that I showed them to could recognize,

[0:27:32 - 0:27:37] ▶

being drones or balloons or birds or otherwise. So what characterized these videos? Why had they

[0:27:37 - 0:27:42] ▶

been kept by border protection? Well, they weren't necessarily kept. They were kind of just

[0:27:42 - 0:27:46] ▶

archived. Like I said, anything that's going to have a nexus to smuggling. Our guys would know

[0:27:46 - 0:27:51] ▶

about, right? So if it's a drone carrying a narcotics load or otherwise, that would be something that

[0:27:51 - 0:27:58] ▶

they would use to, you know, change our tactics as well. So I can imagine there are a lot of

[0:27:58 - 0:28:03] ▶

cartel drones, organized crime drones coming over the border. Apparently there are now, yes.

[0:28:03 - 0:28:08] ▶

And far removed. Would you say that you and your colleagues were pretty damn good at picking a drone

[0:28:08 - 0:28:14] ▶

from any other type of object? I would say all the agents were good at that. Not just the guys that

[0:28:14 - 0:28:19] ▶

I worked with, but the guys that operated the cameras in the air and the guys that operated the

[0:28:19 - 0:28:23] ▶

cameras on the ground, yes. The crucial thing is that with the forward looking in for red,

[0:28:23 - 0:28:28] ▶

you can see whether it's a drone. You can. They have distinct signatures that allow you to make

[0:28:28 - 0:28:34] ▶

that determination. What is it about a drone that makes it so distinguishable? Well, they have

[0:28:34 - 0:28:39] ▶

engines, you know, that generate heat. So you're able to see the signatures of these, you know,

[0:28:39 - 0:28:45] ▶

vehicles by how they're propelled through the air. Without giving away any national security

[0:28:45 - 0:28:51] ▶

secrets, how far away an object can you see with these systems, these incredible optics in

[0:28:51 - 0:28:56] ▶

miles, miles. And you were seeing strange objects. Absolutely. Hundreds of objects that couldn't be

[0:28:56 - 0:29:03] ▶

explained. Well, there was reports from agents of hundreds of objects that they couldn't explain.

[0:29:03 - 0:29:08] ▶

Me personally, I've only seen, you know, a handful at a time, but the other pilots and stuff

[0:29:08 - 0:29:14] ▶

that I worked with, you know, would equal up to that, yes. But you began to realize there was a

[0:29:14 - 0:29:20] ▶

pattern of anomalous objects that couldn't be explained. That's correct. They weren't drones.

[0:29:20 - 0:29:25] ▶

They went balloons. What were they? Well, some of them were mundane objects. Some of them were

[0:29:25 - 0:29:33] ▶

balloons. Are you ruled as that? Well, believe it or not, you know, those Mylar balloons float

[0:29:33 - 0:29:38] ▶

long distances. You'll find those things out in the middle of nowhere sometimes. So those are

[0:29:38 - 0:29:42] ▶

concerned as well. But we've seen those. We know what those look like. We've seen them flying

[0:29:42 - 0:29:46] ▶

through the air. These were things that weren't known, that didn't have the signature of balloons,

[0:29:46 - 0:29:51] ▶

whether they were latex or Mylar. So what did Andy do with the videos? Andy put them out there

[0:29:51 - 0:30:00] ▶

and released them to the public. And what happened? He took a lot of heat for doing so. He really did.

[0:30:00 - 0:30:07] ▶

There was a lot of people that thought these just showed mundane objects. How did you respond to that?

[0:30:07 - 0:30:12] ▶

I personally didn't respond. Andy was the one that responded in social media platforms were

[0:30:13 - 0:30:21] ▶

attacked. He was attacked by the general public with comments and disparaging remarks.

[0:30:21 - 0:30:26] ▶

So the pair of you made a decision to do something, didn't you? We did. It was, I felt good about

[0:30:27 - 0:30:32] ▶

giving those to Andy's. But when I gave them to Andy, it was more of a gift. I washed my hands

[0:30:32 - 0:30:36] ▶

out of them at that point in time. It was just something for the public to see. What was the

[0:30:36 - 0:30:40] ▶

reaction inside Border Protection when it became public that these videos were now sitting on a

[0:30:40 - 0:30:46] ▶

for the public to see? Well, you're talking about the August 2023.

[0:30:46 - 0:30:53] ▶

I'm sorry, I'm talking about when Andy got the videos. He posted them pretty quickly.

[0:30:55 - 0:30:59] ▶

I never heard. I was actually employed while some of those were being released. So I never heard

[0:30:59 - 0:31:05] ▶

were your bosses hostile? No, they weren't hostile at all. So there's no cover-up inside Border

[0:31:05 - 0:31:11] ▶

Protection. Your bosses aren't covering up for something dark progress. No, not at all. They

[0:31:11 - 0:31:15] ▶

were supportive of your UAP investigations. I don't know if they were supportive. The main boss

[0:31:15 - 0:31:22] ▶

that I was working for that put me on this task. He was ultimately in control who I was developing

[0:31:22 - 0:31:27] ▶

this product for. Right. So he was supportive. Personally, nobody's trying to shut you down. No one

[0:31:27 - 0:31:32] ▶

started to shut me down. And when Andy put those videos up online, he's never looking at the

[0:31:32 - 0:31:38] ▶

lens for him. Nobody told you off. No one told me off. Well, full marks and credit to Border

[0:31:38 - 0:31:43] ▶

Protection for having the courage as a public organization to support a good officer like yourself.

[0:31:43 - 0:31:48] ▶

Well, I was happy to help the public in doing so. Was it a difficult decision? It was. I think always

[0:31:48 - 0:31:55] ▶

in the back of your mind, accessing a government computer and doing what I did is obviously,

[0:31:55 - 0:32:03] ▶

not something that's done on a regular basis. There are people who have taken cell phone

[0:32:03 - 0:32:08] ▶

videos of government computers. You can find those out. So that weighed on me heavily.

[0:32:08 - 0:32:12] ▶

For one, I didn't want to be in trouble for national security violations in any form or fashion.

[0:32:14 - 0:32:20] ▶

But I wasn't doing it for nefarious purposes, Ralph. What did you do? I was doing it for safety

[0:32:20 - 0:32:23] ▶

considerations. Why did you do it? For safety considerations, Ralph. That was, like I said,

[0:32:23 - 0:32:28] ▶

I felt strongly, I flew personally as well. And I didn't want to have a strike with one of these,

[0:32:28 - 0:32:33] ▶

just like what you described with the F-16. You were concerned somebody might get killed. Absolutely.

[0:32:33 - 0:32:40] ▶

So the blowback continued from the skeptics and the debunkers. They did. You get the gamut of stuff.

[0:32:43 - 0:32:50] ▶

It's birds, it's balloons, it's drones. I have to admit that this time, I remember reading about it

[0:32:50 - 0:32:56] ▶

and thinking the rubber duck video looked ridiculous. I remember thinking, oh, well, it's just rubbish.

[0:32:56 - 0:33:02] ▶

And then what did you do? You made a decision to refer it onto another group.

[0:33:04 - 0:33:08] ▶

Absolutely. And that was done by Andy. Andy had the foresight to be able to, if he was going to

[0:33:08 - 0:33:15] ▶

release these, he wanted to release the rubber duck in the right way. And it was sent off to the

[0:33:15 - 0:33:20] ▶

scientific coalition for unexplained aerial phenomenon. So that went and was peer reviewed by

[0:33:20 - 0:33:25] ▶

their guys, specifically by a peater reality. And he generated a report. That report was going to

[0:33:25 - 0:33:31] ▶

get stuck into my report. That was going to go to my boss. But unfortunately, I retired before it

[0:33:31 - 0:33:37] ▶

was complete. Your health issues, I do have health issues. How they were led to the job you've

[0:33:37 - 0:33:42] ▶

been doing? I can't say they are not, at least not for the Board of Patrol. But it's taken a toll

[0:33:42 - 0:33:49] ▶

on you, your health. It has taken a toll on me. Has whistle blowing taken a toll on you?

[0:33:49 - 0:33:53] ▶

It has. It has. I personally am divorced now. I live in a different state than, you know, I'm from

[0:33:53 - 0:34:01] ▶

Tucson. I now live in a different state because of it. Sir, I hope one day there comes a time in

[0:34:01 - 0:34:07] ▶

America where people like you who've had the courage to come forward are properly recognised.

[0:34:07 - 0:34:12] ▶

And on it. Appreciate that, sir. Thank you. Did you explore the possibility in the course of your

[0:34:12 - 0:34:18] ▶

research that what you were seeing were black projects, secret US weapons or aerospace programs?

[0:34:18 - 0:34:26] ▶

Oh, certainly. That was always, you know, one of the possibilities that one of these videos could

[0:34:26 - 0:34:31] ▶

have been. We could have been a capture of, you know, US technology for sure. And I don't think any

[0:34:31 - 0:34:35] ▶

of us want to jeopardise a national security imperative. If we do have 100-foot wide black

[0:34:35 - 0:34:41] ▶

triangles that can operate without any visible means of propulsion, I like the idea that it's

[0:34:41 - 0:34:48] ▶

America that's got it. I like that as well. Did anybody ever come to you when you were doing your

[0:34:48 - 0:34:53] ▶

research knowing that you were doing this work for border protection and say, look, in the interests

[0:34:53 - 0:34:57] ▶

of national security, we ask you to stop. No, and as a matter of fact, Ross, I got more videos.

[0:34:57 - 0:35:04] ▶

When the first one came, I got made of it, wear of another one, and then another one popped up.

[0:35:05 - 0:35:10] ▶

So people were kind of relieved for the first time they were being allowed to talk about this issue.

[0:35:10 - 0:35:15] ▶

I think so. I think, you know, all of those videos show something, you know, for the most part

[0:35:16 - 0:35:20] ▶

different. And as an operator of those cameras, you don't know what they are. So you don't want to

[0:35:20 - 0:35:27] ▶

call agents over there. If, you know, for example, the La Brueja video looks like a witch cruising

[0:35:27 - 0:35:34] ▶

through the desert. What are you going to tell an agent? Can you go over there and look at this

[0:35:34 - 0:35:39] ▶

witch that's cruising through the desert? That's, you know, that's something that, you know, agents

[0:35:39 - 0:35:45] ▶

have to come to terms with, you know, and if one of these things went down out in the desert,

[0:35:45 - 0:35:50] ▶

the border patrol agents might be the first one out there as well. So I'm jumping ahead a little

[0:35:50 - 0:35:54] ▶

bit here, but I'm interested to know you saw the David Grush revelations that came out in June 2023.

[0:35:54 - 0:36:00] ▶

I did. What was your take? I was flabbergasted just like anyone else was, and knowing that the

[0:36:00 - 0:36:06] ▶

government may have non-human intelligence or craft of other dimensions, planets, or otherwise

[0:36:06 - 0:36:13] ▶

is fairly exciting and intriguing and disturbing at the same time. The allegations that David made

[0:36:13 - 0:36:23] ▶

were essentially that there is a non-human intelligence that's been engaging with this planet

[0:36:23 - 0:36:27] ▶

for a very long time. The US is secretly aware of it. It's been recovering alien, non-human

[0:36:27 - 0:36:35] ▶

technology, and somewhere in America. It's got facilities where it's secretly attempting to back

[0:36:35 - 0:36:42] ▶

engineer it. It's extraordinary allegations. Those are extraordinary allegations for sure. When

[0:36:42 - 0:36:49] ▶

you heard that though, did it put some things together in your mind about what you had been hearing

[0:36:49 - 0:36:55] ▶

about from your operatives in the field and the border protection? Well, absolutely, especially

[0:36:55 - 0:37:00] ▶

being in a military training area, you have to test that technology out in some form or fashion.

[0:37:00 - 0:37:04] ▶

You're not going to be flying it over large cities for the most part. At least that would be my

[0:37:04 - 0:37:08] ▶

impression. So where else would you fly it out on a military training range that's vast and

[0:37:08 - 0:37:12] ▶

wide? But why would they test machinery such advanced technology when they surely know that

[0:37:12 - 0:37:19] ▶

they're a border protection aircraft with sophisticated imagery systems? What better place to do it

[0:37:19 - 0:37:24] ▶

with guys that have security clearances already? But wouldn't they have tried to shut you down if

[0:37:24 - 0:37:28] ▶

they'd known that you were doing this research? I can't speculate as to what their intentions would be.

[0:37:28 - 0:37:34] ▶

David's allegation is that there is an incredibly secret operation known as the program

[0:37:35 - 0:37:42] ▶

where the United States is trying to back engineer this technology, this alien technology

[0:37:44 - 0:37:49] ▶

in secret facilities. Do you find that even remotely plausible?

[0:37:49 - 0:37:52] ▶

Well, with the reports of the agents and the things that I've seen, it's certainly possible,

[0:37:54 - 0:38:00] ▶

especially where we see the objects out on the military reservation or bombing range.

[0:38:00 - 0:38:10] ▶

It certainly could be our own technology. Now we're not going to go through each individual

[0:38:12 - 0:38:16] ▶

video here, but I do want to talk with you about the findings that were made by SCU

[0:38:17 - 0:38:23] ▶

about the rubber duck video. Because that's the primary focus of the SCU report. What did they

[0:38:23 - 0:38:29] ▶

do to it? They determined that the rubber duck was an anomalous object. They couldn't explain it.

[0:38:29 - 0:38:34] ▶

They ruled out drones. They ruled out drones. They ruled out balloons. We actually had a 20 plus year

[0:38:34 - 0:38:40] ▶

FLIR depot level technician do a pretty good analysis of it as well. He's seen every gamut of what

[0:38:40 - 0:38:46] ▶

you could possibly see on FLIR looked at it from different perspectives as well. And it knows how

[0:38:46 - 0:38:52] ▶

those cameras work very intricately. So he couldn't figure out what it was either.

[0:38:52 - 0:38:57] ▶

Did it stop the debunkers and the skeptics? Nope, they continued on. They continued on with the attack.

[0:38:58 - 0:39:04] ▶

And I think it only stopped until that SCU report came out. When the SCU report made its findings

[0:39:04 - 0:39:10] ▶

that the rubber duck video was genuinely anomalous, did that put an end or did it slow the level of

[0:39:10 - 0:39:17] ▶

criticism from the skeptics and debunkers? I would say yes. I mean, I wasn't actively involved in

[0:39:17 - 0:39:22] ▶

social media but I did monitor Andy's Instagram account and it seemed to it brought a lot of

[0:39:22 - 0:39:28] ▶

vindication for what we had put forward. Can I ask you this? Do you think it's understood

[0:39:28 - 0:39:34] ▶

in mainstream media and authoritative, if you like, official commentary that the independent

[0:39:34 - 0:39:42] ▶

group of scientists have made this determination that the rubber duck video is genuinely anomalous?

[0:39:42 - 0:39:48] ▶

Extremely valuable and I think that just gives them another piece in which they, you know,

[0:39:48 - 0:39:52] ▶

the next video they get they'll have a... But do you think, I mean, it's often been misreported,

[0:39:52 - 0:39:56] ▶

I think, in mainstream media. Do you think that mainstream media have fairly and accurately reported

[0:39:56 - 0:40:02] ▶

the significance of what SCU found? No, not at all. Not at all. And I don't even think I've seen any

[0:40:02 - 0:40:08] ▶

reports from mainstream media about the SCU. Which is unusual, listen. It's an amazing unusual.

[0:40:08 - 0:40:13] ▶

If an authoritative group of scientists had made a determination about any other issue,

[0:40:13 - 0:40:18] ▶

you'd think it would be given some degree of credibility in the media. Do you have a top-notch group

[0:40:19 - 0:40:24] ▶

of scientists working for them over there and I would think that would be highly credible,

[0:40:24 - 0:40:28] ▶

especially with what they find. But it was significant for you and Andy at least because you'd

[0:40:28 - 0:40:35] ▶

done the right thing. Andy had made the decision to put it before SCU. It's anomalous. Yes,

[0:40:35 - 0:40:41] ▶

and I think it happened that independent exam of it was extremely valuable.

[0:40:41 - 0:40:45] ▶

Why did they decide it showed an object that was anomalous? Because of the different characteristics

[0:40:46 - 0:40:52] ▶

that it had. So there were no heat source on it. It moved in a weird and strange way.

[0:40:52 - 0:40:59] ▶

I don't know if you're aware of that, but it was doing some kind of weird circle pattern.

[0:40:59 - 0:41:04] ▶

So it seemed to be searching for something. So this is important. On the video,

[0:41:04 - 0:41:08] ▶

it looks like it's going in a straight line. Does it look like it's going in a straight line?

[0:41:09 - 0:41:13] ▶

Is it? No, it's not going in a straight line. And they were able to figure that out by looking

[0:41:13 - 0:41:17] ▶

at the GPS location references on the video. That's correct. That all that data was provided.

[0:41:17 - 0:41:23] ▶

And what did that analysis by SCU's Peter Riali show? It showed that the object was circling and

[0:41:23 - 0:41:30] ▶

the plane was circling. So they were both going around each other, which is quite odd.

[0:41:30 - 0:41:36] ▶

And the actual operator at the camera seemed to think that it was making a search pattern.

[0:41:36 - 0:41:44] ▶

So this is an object that is intelligently controlled. It appears that way. It's searching for something.

[0:41:44 - 0:41:52] ▶

It appeared that way. What was it searching for? Your guess is as good as mine.

[0:41:52 - 0:41:57] ▶

In your investigations, did you ever go to the location where this object was seen?

[0:41:58 - 0:42:05] ▶

I've worked out in that area, but I did not go to the exact location that it was seen.

[0:42:05 - 0:42:09] ▶

It would be an interesting question, wouldn't it? What is it about the features of that location?

[0:42:09 - 0:42:15] ▶

Perhaps the mineral composition? It would absolutely be worth checking out.

[0:42:15 - 0:42:20] ▶

Would there be something underneath? That's a distinct possibility too. There's lots of

[0:42:21 - 0:42:26] ▶

minds and caverns out there. There would probably be something called quinz gate that might be

[0:42:26 - 0:42:31] ▶

worth checking out out there as well. Let's talk about quinz gate. What's quinz gate?

[0:42:31 - 0:42:35] ▶

Ancient folklore about a gate that may be a portal of some sort. It's a rock structure. There's

[0:42:36 - 0:42:42] ▶

plenty online that you can find out about quinz gate, but it's long been rumored to be some sort of

[0:42:42 - 0:42:48] ▶

portal and they've seen anomalous objects near it as well, which fits the definition of where all

[0:42:48 - 0:42:52] ▶

these pilots are seeing this stuff. And this location quinz gate is very near. We're near to where

[0:42:52 - 0:42:57] ▶

the rubber duck was filmed. Interesting quinz gate. I'd say so. So,

[0:42:57 - 0:43:02] ▶

SCU make this determination that this isn't a normal or subject. Is there any response? Have you

[0:43:02 - 0:43:07] ▶

become aware of any response at all from either your former department or any government agency?

[0:43:07 - 0:43:12] ▶

Not that I know of, like I said, Ross, I kind of washed my hands from this after I gave these

[0:43:13 - 0:43:17] ▶

videos to Andy and retired from the board of patrol. But crucially, maybe it might be better coming

[0:43:17 - 0:43:22] ▶

from Andy this. I understand that there was eventually some kind of tacit acknowledgement

[0:43:22 - 0:43:26] ▶

by a government agency that this rubber duck video was indeed anomalous.

[0:43:26 - 0:43:30] ▶

There was. CPP actually did a release. Okay, so later, CPP is what for our audience?

[0:43:30 - 0:43:35] ▶

The US Customs and Border Protection did do a release. Kind of a document dump per se. They

[0:43:35 - 0:43:42] ▶

released some of the things that I was working on as well as videos as well. And what did that

[0:43:42 - 0:43:47] ▶

document dump show? The document dump had a lot of the work that I, like I said, that I was working

[0:43:47 - 0:43:53] ▶

on, but it also had my personal emails and text messages as well, corresponding about what I was

[0:43:53 - 0:44:01] ▶

doing. So what was it in the documents that were released by Customs and Border Protection

[0:44:01 - 0:44:07] ▶

that underlined the fact that this rubber duck video was anomalous?

[0:44:07 - 0:44:12] ▶

Well, for one, it came from the Department of Homeland Security. It showed that it was an authentic

[0:44:12 - 0:44:16] ▶

video that was coming from them and that was, you know, part of the operations per se.

[0:44:16 - 0:44:22] ▶

But what, what, what declaration, if any, did they make about the video?

[0:44:22 - 0:44:25] ▶

They personally didn't make any determinations about it. They just released it and I think there,

[0:44:25 - 0:44:30] ▶

maybe their response was let the public decide. But basically, there's no finding by Customs

[0:44:30 - 0:44:36] ▶

and Border Protection. No findings at all. It's finding what that object was. It was a very vague

[0:44:36 - 0:44:40] ▶

release of documents and videos. I don't think the Department of Homeland Security has commented on it.

[0:44:41 - 0:44:48] ▶

You would appreciate that it's fundamental to David Grush's allegations that implicitly there

[0:44:48 - 0:44:54] ▶

are facilities that are hiding non-human technology. It's pretty disturbing. The allegation is that

[0:44:54 - 0:45:05] ▶

this is being hidden from the American public, which is equally disturbing. But by definition,

[0:45:05 - 0:45:12] ▶

if it's true, there has to be facilities somewhere in the United States where these objects are

[0:45:12 - 0:45:20] ▶

being hidden. I would think that would be correct of some secret military base or some remote

[0:45:20 - 0:45:27] ▶

location that they may be contained. With the benefit of hindsight, do you think it's plausible

[0:45:27 - 0:45:33] ▶

that the objects that were reported to you by Border Protection officials and indeed videoed

[0:45:33 - 0:45:39] ▶

might be evidence of some kind of black US program, perhaps underground facilities in Arizona.

[0:45:40 - 0:45:47] ▶

It's possible. For sure, it's possible. It's a vast area. That training area, the military

[0:45:48 - 0:45:53] ▶

training area out there where the agents work is a vast area. It's interesting because if it was legal,

[0:45:53 - 0:45:58] ▶

I would have expected men and dark suits to turn up to your boss's office and say, can you please

[0:46:00 - 0:46:05] ▶

tell this Bob Guide pull his head in? That's correct. They didn't did that. They didn't, but

[0:46:05 - 0:46:12] ▶

maybe they've upgraded from the old stories to something newer. Do you think that people would

[0:46:12 - 0:46:18] ▶

have become aware of your investigations? It would have been pretty widely known that you were

[0:46:18 - 0:46:22] ▶

doing this research, wouldn't it? The guys in my office in Sharp knew I was doing stuff with UAPs.

[0:46:22 - 0:46:28] ▶

So the Department of Homeland Security knew that you were doing investigations into UAP?

[0:46:29 - 0:46:34] ▶

At least a couple of my supervisors for sure. So if there was an authorised,

[0:46:35 - 0:46:41] ▶

Congressionaly approved funded program doing proper legal investigations into laudable, recovered

[0:46:41 - 0:46:49] ▶

investigations into recovered non-human technology, you would think that there would be a quiet

[0:46:50 - 0:46:55] ▶

word given to your bosses and just ask Bob to go quiet on that one. You would think so. You

[0:46:55 - 0:47:01] ▶

and that didn't happen. That did not happen. Let's talk about Sedona. There are a large number of

[0:47:02 - 0:47:11] ▶

witnesses who've independently said to us that they have seen very similar objects to what your

[0:47:11 - 0:47:16] ▶

border protection officials describe around Sedona, a place tantalisingly described as secret

[0:47:16 - 0:47:24] ▶

mountain. Have you had a hood of interesting activity around Sedona? I have heard of

[0:47:24 - 0:47:30] ▶

interesting activity around Sedona and I have personally been out to Sedona camping and spent time

[0:47:30 - 0:47:35] ▶

out there exploring an area that's known for having some of that activity. And have you seen any of

[0:47:35 - 0:47:40] ▶

that yourself? I did not. I personally did not see any activity while I was there doing and

[0:47:40 - 0:47:45] ▶

doing some looking around, but a lot of other people did. We have witnesses who claim that they

[0:47:45 - 0:47:53] ▶

have been confronted in the forest by men with guns, purporting to be government, but not showing

[0:47:53 - 0:48:01] ▶

any ID, telling them that if they don't leave, they will be murdered. I have not seen that personally,

[0:48:01 - 0:48:08] ▶

but do you think it's plausible that the military might be locating a facility adjacent to a

[0:48:09 - 0:48:16] ▶

place like Sedona? Or I mean, is that even likely? Why would the military locate themselves close to

[0:48:16 - 0:48:22] ▶

major tourist attraction? Well, it's a tourist attraction for multiple reasons, not only its

[0:48:22 - 0:48:28] ▶

beauty, but it's also known and rumored to contain vortexes and energy healing centers, so that might

[0:48:28 - 0:48:34] ▶

be something a non-human intelligence or a government program would be interested in. But more

[0:48:34 - 0:48:39] ▶

importantly, it might also provide cover. Why didn't it might also provide cover? It would be so easy

[0:48:39 - 0:48:45] ▶

to dismiss sightings as a bunch of loopy tinfoil hat crazies looking at strange objects in this guy

[0:48:45 - 0:48:50] ▶

for leading what they want to believe. That would be correct.

[0:48:51 - 0:48:53] ▶

So you'd be familiar with the way national security works in the United States. There are levels

[0:48:56 - 0:49:03] ▶

of secrets. That's correct. So when you were briefed as a top secret clear employee, you knew that

[0:49:03 - 0:49:09] ▶

a not above, but parallel with the top secret level of classification, there are compartments of

[0:49:09 - 0:49:16] ▶

information. That's right. And that's secure, compartmented information. Facilities. And the

[0:49:16 - 0:49:24] ▶

rubber duck video actually made its way into that initially. But when you obtained it, it was no

[0:49:24 - 0:49:30] ▶

longer top secret. It was no longer classified in that fashion. So there are special access programs.

[0:49:30 - 0:49:38] ▶

There are unacknowledged special access programs, ASAPs, from what I've heard. And there are things

[0:49:38 - 0:49:49] ▶

called WUSAPs, WAVED, unacknowledged special access programs. And they are secrets that are so

[0:49:49 - 0:49:59] ▶

important to US national security that Congress, only a few people in Congress can be cleared to

[0:49:59 - 0:50:07] ▶

know about them if it all. And that's the gang of eight. Do you know about this system?

[0:50:07 - 0:50:11] ▶

I'm familiar a little bit with the system, but as far as any knowledge about how it operates or

[0:50:12 - 0:50:18] ▶

works, that started my wheelhouse. But the fascinating thing that I've discovered in my research is that

[0:50:18 - 0:50:24] ▶

it's not a WUSAP. I've spoken to people who've served on the gang of eight. And they tell me they

[0:50:25 - 0:50:33] ▶

were never cleared if there is such a secret program operating in America. Even the toughest,

[0:50:33 - 0:50:41] ▶

biggest, most important secrets of all, the WAVED, unacknowledged special access programs,

[0:50:41 - 0:50:49] ▶

the WUSAPs, the gang of eight to their knowledge has never been briefed into such a program.

[0:50:49 - 0:50:57] ▶

You're a patriot, aren't you? I like the idea that America might have this technology. I like it

[0:50:57 - 0:51:05] ▶

as well. But does it concern you as a loyal patriotic American citizen that Congress may not have

[0:51:05 - 0:51:12] ▶

been properly informed? I would think that would be an important step. There should be at least a

[0:51:12 - 0:51:18] ▶

little bit of oversight involved with it and used in a responsible manner. Now, what are the

[0:51:18 - 0:51:26] ▶

funny things about doing a story like this is you have to get used to military acronyms. We've

[0:51:26 - 0:51:30] ▶

talked about WUSAPs, WAVED, unacknowledged special access programs. And there are also things

[0:51:30 - 0:51:36] ▶

cutely called DUMBS. Do you know what a DUMBS? That's a deep underground military base from my

[0:51:36 - 0:51:42] ▶

understanding. Do you know of deep underground military basis yourself? Just rumors. You've never

[0:51:42 - 0:51:48] ▶

seen one. I've never seen one. You're not holding out on us. I'm not holding out on you. But clearly,

[0:51:48 - 0:51:53] ▶

the Iran deep underground military bases, some of which have even become public. There's

[0:51:54 - 0:52:00] ▶

Raven Rock, which is where the US government has been to be taken to in the event of nuclear war.

[0:52:00 - 0:52:05] ▶

I'm familiar with that. The continuity of operations programs. Personally, I'm a master exercise

[0:52:05 - 0:52:11] ▶

practitioner. So designing exercises and exercising that component is an important piece. So

[0:52:11 - 0:52:18] ▶

I'm aware of the reason why they would utilize facilities like that. And where would you locate

[0:52:18 - 0:52:26] ▶

such a facility? What would you look for, like heading a deep underground military base?

[0:52:26 - 0:52:31] ▶

That's out of my wheelhouse. I would refer that to a geologist. There is probably scientists that

[0:52:32 - 0:52:37] ▶

would have a better answer to that question. But it's plausible that you would use remote areas.

[0:52:37 - 0:52:42] ▶

Remote location would be my first choice. And one of the things Arizona is good at is having remote

[0:52:42 - 0:52:47] ▶

locations. And Sedona does report. There's an enormous number of people in the Sedona area who are

[0:52:47 - 0:52:54] ▶

saying there are weird things happening in our skies. There are weird things for sure in the

[0:52:54 - 0:52:59] ▶

skies of Sedona. It's not just, I've heard it from people visiting there, not just the locals,

[0:52:59 - 0:53:04] ▶

but people visiting as well. There's even a cement works where locals report seeing large,

[0:53:04 - 0:53:10] ▶

articulated lorries carrying very heavy concrete sections. They disappear into a building and they

[0:53:10 - 0:53:15] ▶

don't come out. The suggestion is that it's owned by Lockheed Martin through a front company,

[0:53:15 - 0:53:22] ▶

the Cluckdale cement works. I'm not aware of that. They do have a facility in Mesa that I know

[0:53:22 - 0:53:29] ▶

about. But Lockheed Martin's name bobs up in the custard many times in this investigation. Lockheed

[0:53:30 - 0:53:37] ▶

Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Battelle. There's many of the same old names, aren't they?

[0:53:37 - 0:53:45] ▶

Going right back to the 50s and the 60s. That's correct. I grew up here in Tucson and Raytheon and

[0:53:45 - 0:53:51] ▶

Hughes aircraft. It was Hughes aircraft before it was Raytheon and Hughes was always an important

[0:53:51 - 0:53:56] ▶

part of the Tucson community. And let's be clear, these companies have done fantastic things for

[0:53:56 - 0:54:01] ▶

the defence of America. Absolutely. The laudable aerospace companies that have done a great deal to

[0:54:01 - 0:54:06] ▶

protect our country. Absolutely. And yet there's a question mark. They have technology, they have

[0:54:06 - 0:54:13] ▶

certain programs that I'm sure develop for future weapons or future platforms or any other

[0:54:13 - 0:54:18] ▶

items that are going to go towards national security. One of the things I know that you took a

[0:54:18 - 0:54:23] ▶

special interest in during your work as a border protection official are the Native American

[0:54:23 - 0:54:28] ▶

stories and the Pictagliffs. That's correct. What did they show? What were the things that you

[0:54:28 - 0:54:34] ▶

saw in the course of your research that made you just question whether this is a phenomenon

[0:54:34 - 0:54:39] ▶

that's been around for a long day? Well, there's anything from pictures of beans on these rocks to

[0:54:39 - 0:54:46] ▶

star charts or maps that seem to coincide with stuff in the sky. Objects that may be seen in the

[0:54:48 - 0:54:55] ▶

sky, triple dots, stuff like that, that seem to not make any rational senses to why they would be

[0:54:55 - 0:55:02] ▶

on there. But they're usually found in some of those areas that have these high incidents of

[0:55:02 - 0:55:08] ▶

UAPs reported. Now Bob, I just want to ask this investigation that you did for border protection.

[0:55:08 - 0:55:14] ▶

This wasn't just some idle freelance thing that you did on your spare time. You were clearly

[0:55:15 - 0:55:21] ▶

authorized by your bosses to do it. No, I had definitely had a boss that wanted me to put together

[0:55:21 - 0:55:25] ▶

a paper for him to show to probably his superiors. And to your knowledge though, has it been acted

[0:55:25 - 0:55:32] ▶

upon? No. Not that to my knowledge, I'm retired. I would not have access to that information.

[0:55:32 - 0:55:38] ▶

Isn't that unusual to not have it carried on or to have access to that information? I mean,

[0:55:38 - 0:55:45] ▶

I don't just respect to you, but if I was a boss in border protection and I've got

[0:55:45 - 0:55:50] ▶

operatives agents telling me that there are hundreds of anomalous objects, including a gigantic

[0:55:50 - 0:55:57] ▶

black triangle that's 100 foot wide, coming close to the border with Mexico. I would regard that

[0:55:57 - 0:56:04] ▶

as a national security issue. I would think so, but I think the problem is what can you do about it,

[0:56:04 - 0:56:11] ▶

where they're working on intelligence and visualization of these items that have a nexus to

[0:56:11 - 0:56:17] ▶

smuggling. They're worried about fentanyl coming in, they're worried about these drones delivering

[0:56:17 - 0:56:21] ▶

narcotics in the different areas that they patrol. I think the large black triangles and orbs

[0:56:21 - 0:56:28] ▶

and other things are just not in their wheelhouse. They can't even tell them the other videos that you

[0:56:28 - 0:56:35] ▶

found with it. There was. I got another video from the original guy that filmed the rubber duck video.

[0:56:35 - 0:56:43] ▶

Now, that video is out there. We didn't release that, like we did the other ones, but that one

[0:56:43 - 0:56:49] ▶

is certainly available to be viewed. What do you call that one? That one I think is known as

[0:56:49 - 0:56:54] ▶

the cigar video. So the same person that videoed from a surveillance aircraft, the rubber duck video,

[0:56:54 - 0:57:01] ▶

yes, provided you with another video. That's correct. It's just not as of the same quality as the

[0:57:01 - 0:57:06] ▶

rubber duck video. It was filmed with the cell phone and I think more than anything, my

[0:57:06 - 0:57:11] ▶

companion showed it to me to kind of get my opinion on it. So I know the guy. He's a friend of mine

[0:57:12 - 0:57:21] ▶

and I think he wanted to know whether it was maybe even the same thing as the rubber duck.

[0:57:21 - 0:57:25] ▶

It just couldn't be determined because there wasn't enough data and I thought the video was of,

[0:57:26 - 0:57:30] ▶

you know, not the greatest quality. What conclusion did you reach about it?

[0:57:30 - 0:57:34] ▶

Much like the other ones, I was open for whatever it may be. I have a pretty open mind, anything

[0:57:35 - 0:57:41] ▶

from anomalous interdimensional interplanetary to even the mundane object. Maybe we're seeing

[0:57:41 - 0:57:51] ▶

something different mundane that it could possibly be. But from my understanding and my experience

[0:57:51 - 0:57:58] ▶

operating those cameras, it's nothing that I've ever seen before. But there are probably people

[0:57:58 - 0:58:03] ▶

watching this who work in positions very similar to yours in government agencies all over the

[0:58:03 - 0:58:08] ▶

United States. In fact, I like to think that this documentary might be seen by people all over

[0:58:08 - 0:58:13] ▶

the world. What would you say to people who know things, who are aware of anomalous objects?

[0:58:13 - 0:58:21] ▶

Five years on from your decision to go public. Do you regret that decision if you have

[0:58:21 - 0:58:26] ▶

had caused to wish that you hadn't done what you did? No, I think I feel like after you have

[0:58:26 - 0:58:33] ▶

access to this information and you see some of these things, it's almost a responsibility to

[0:58:33 - 0:58:38] ▶

help share it with others and bring awareness about the subject. What do you say to people who just

[0:58:38 - 0:58:43] ▶

default ridicule and stigmatize and treat with taboo this subject? Well, I would say look up in

[0:58:43 - 0:58:50] ▶

the sky because you probably see something and you're not going to see it by looking down at your

[0:58:50 - 0:58:54] ▶

phone all the time. We've been manipulated, haven't we? I do believe so. We've been told these

[0:58:54 - 0:59:02] ▶

objects don't exist. Or swamp gas or Venus or any of the old terms. I think bird and drone are

[0:59:02 - 0:59:09] ▶

just the new swamp gas and Venus. So you don't accept that these are all drones.

[0:59:09 - 0:59:13] ▶

The way they moved in the characteristics of some of these things defies what is known as a drone

[0:59:15 - 0:59:22] ▶

for the most part here. I mean, do drones operate at 36,000 feet at 575 miles an hour? None that I

[0:59:22 - 0:59:29] ▶

know of and I've operated a few drones. These are genuine unexplained phenomena. They are. And yet

[0:59:29 - 0:59:38] ▶

nobody seems to care. Well, it gets back to the adage what I was saying before unless it has

[0:59:40 - 0:59:45] ▶

a nexus to smuggling. I don't think it's in the Border Patrol's wheelhouse. So I don't buy that.

[0:59:45 - 0:59:50] ▶

I don't buy that. Do you think there's something more here? Is somebody shutting down this debate

[0:59:52 - 0:59:57] ▶

inside government? I can't say that for sure. But like I said, I just don't think it's in the

[0:59:57 - 1:00:03] ▶

the Border Patrol has other things to worry about right now and they're just not it would appear

[1:00:03 - 1:00:08] ▶

they're just not worried about UAPs or the Department of Homeland Security. I can't like I said,

[1:00:08 - 1:00:14] ▶

I am retired now and I can't speak for the Department of Homeland Security. But while I was working

[1:00:14 - 1:00:19] ▶

there, it just wasn't something that was reported and I don't think it was something that they

[1:00:19 - 1:00:24] ▶

worried about. The cartels smuggling people and drugs over the border. They're dangerous people.

[1:00:24 - 1:00:29] ▶

That's what they were worried about. That's what the Border Patrol's worried about. They've got

[1:00:29 - 1:00:34] ▶

money and weapons and weapons of mass destruction. What we're looking at is billions of dollars. They do.

[1:00:34 - 1:00:40] ▶

Black industry. They do. Is it plausible that they've developed technology that we don't yet know

[1:00:40 - 1:00:46] ▶

about that might explain all of these objects? Well, with having an unlimited budget, you would

[1:00:46 - 1:00:50] ▶

probably be able to field technology that less fortunate people would have. Is it your suspicion

[1:00:50 - 1:00:57] ▶

though that there's something non-human behind what we're seeing? That's my impression.

[1:00:57 - 1:01:02] ▶

You really do believe that. I really do believe that. So you think what we're seeing may be in fact

[1:01:03 - 1:01:09] ▶

non-human technology. I think it you could remove technology. I can't say for certain it's technology,

[1:01:09 - 1:01:18] ▶

that's occurring. It may be something that we're completely unaware of. The thing I find

[1:01:18 - 1:01:23] ▶

fascinating is a lot of the witnesses around Sedona describe these objects, triangles,

[1:01:23 - 1:01:29] ▶

orbs, craft of some kind and next to them apparently escorting them are Apache helicopters,

[1:01:29 - 1:01:38] ▶

Black Hawk helicopters. What's going on? I personally can't comment on that because I haven't seen

[1:01:38 - 1:01:45] ▶

anything like that. I have seen when I was in the military a B1 bomber being escorted by chase

[1:01:45 - 1:01:51] ▶

planes in the northern and at the National Training Center in Fort Erden, California. So that

[1:01:51 - 1:01:58] ▶

seems to fit a pattern of how they would escort something like that around in the B2 bomber looks

[1:01:58 - 1:02:06] ▶

like a UFO anyway. So from a side profile having two chase planes alongside that thing would give

[1:02:06 - 1:02:12] ▶

that impression. So I haven't seen anything Sedona and I haven't heard of or know anyone that

[1:02:12 - 1:02:18] ▶

seen exactly what she described. But five years ago you made a decision to do a big thing for you

[1:02:18 - 1:02:27] ▶

as a covert operator inside border protection. You made the decision to go public with information

[1:02:27 - 1:02:34] ▶

that you think the public has a right to know. I do have a strong opinion that I think the public

[1:02:34 - 1:02:41] ▶

needs to know about what's flying around over the deserts of southwest Arizona. That's for sure.

[1:02:41 - 1:02:46] ▶

This is a flight safety and a national security concern. I think you can combine those two together

[1:02:46 - 1:02:52] ▶

for sure and that gives a better case as to why this should be out in the public. Are you confident

[1:02:52 - 1:02:59] ▶

that there has been any kind of adequate investigation into the issues you raised?

[1:02:59 - 1:03:04] ▶

I just don't have access to that information. I'd like to think that the legacy of my work would

[1:03:04 - 1:03:09] ▶

continue on and have some sort of meaningful impact and allow the guys to be able to report stuff

[1:03:09 - 1:03:14] ▶

like that. But honestly, Russ, I'm so far removed from the border patrol right now. I wouldn't have

[1:03:14 - 1:03:19] ▶

access to that information. But when, for example, the Pentagon's UAP investigation office, the

[1:03:19 - 1:03:25] ▶

all-domain anomaly resolution office makes a finding as it did in 2024 that there is no evidence

[1:03:25 - 1:03:33] ▶

of extraterrestrial visitation to this planet. There is no evidence of any U.S. secret program.

[1:03:33 - 1:03:39] ▶

Do you think they've really tried to look? I don't think so. And I find it actually very disrespectful

[1:03:39 - 1:03:43] ▶

to the scientists that put in the time at SCU to look at the rubber duck video and stuff. That could

[1:03:43 - 1:03:48] ▶

have been included in that report, which was deemed anonymous by, you know, senior scientists that

[1:03:48 - 1:03:55] ▶

have a lot of years of experience. So, Chris, you haven't seen any proper official investigation,

[1:03:55 - 1:04:01] ▶

at least in the public domain, to deal with the issues that could quite laudably address by SCU

[1:04:01 - 1:04:07] ▶

and its objective assessment of that video. I have not seen that. Would you like to see it?

[1:04:07 - 1:04:13] ▶

Absolutely. Absolutely. But when I first saw those videos, particularly the rubber duck video,

[1:04:13 - 1:04:21] ▶

I have to admit I giggled. It just seemed so absurd. I thought it was rubbish.

[1:04:21 - 1:04:26] ▶

It's a funny name for a video. The object is funny looking in the video. It's unexplained.

[1:04:27 - 1:04:34] ▶

So, let's talk about the petroglyphs. I'm fascinated in your work as a border protection officer,

[1:04:34 - 1:04:42] ▶

you actually got to learn a lot about the Native American culture in the same area, didn't you?

[1:04:43 - 1:04:48] ▶

I did. And where I worked mainly was the Tahono-odom Indian reservation, which is out kind of by

[1:04:48 - 1:04:55] ▶

Cells, Arizona. South of there, there are sacred sites that Tahono-odom people have. And I got to

[1:04:55 - 1:05:02] ▶

go around and explore some of those when I wasn't fully engaged in arresting people.

[1:05:02 - 1:05:08] ▶

And the thing I find fascinating is there are ancient petroglyphs on the wool, aren't there?

[1:05:08 - 1:05:13] ▶

There are. What did I show? A lot of them show different beans that could be described as

[1:05:13 - 1:05:19] ▶

maybe extraterrestrial, different shapes of people. There's even petroglyphs that have three dots,

[1:05:19 - 1:05:26] ▶

three orbs looking type things on them. And you saw those many times? I've seen those, yes. I've

[1:05:26 - 1:05:31] ▶

seen them all over the state as a matter of fact. And what did the Native American Indians tell you,

[1:05:31 - 1:05:35] ▶

they were? Stuff that comes from the sky. So they talk about this, absolutely. Absolutely.

[1:05:35 - 1:05:41] ▶

And it's not just other people talk about that as well within the Native American. And then

[1:05:41 - 1:05:48] ▶

starting to make more mainstream kind of public information news for the most part.

[1:05:48 - 1:05:55] ▶

Bob, this all begs the question. All the evidence you've seen, the data on your assessment.

[1:05:56 - 1:06:06] ▶

Are we alone? I'm open for all kinds of possibilities. Everything from maybe a spiritual or divine

[1:06:06 - 1:06:14] ▶

encounter all the way to nuts and bolts or even a more mundane. But for me, the mundane side of

[1:06:15 - 1:06:21] ▶

it, I always try to look at things and try to explain it away first with the more mundane items.

[1:06:21 - 1:06:26] ▶

That's just the way I have always been my entire life. And I have thousands of hours on those

[1:06:26 - 1:06:32] ▶

cameras looking at different objects, everything from coyotes to rabbits to the moon even. And there are

[1:06:32 - 1:06:40] ▶

things in those videos that I can't explain. And what they are, they could be beans for all we know.

[1:06:40 - 1:06:49] ▶

They could be the rubber duck shows something that even was discussed as being someone flying

[1:06:49 - 1:06:56] ▶

through the sky in the lotus position. So I'm open to all those possibilities.

[1:06:56 - 1:07:01] ▶

But if what you're talking about is true, this is the biggest secret in human history, isn't it?

[1:07:02 - 1:07:06] ▶

It is, but has it not been going on and been reported all throughout history as well?

[1:07:07 - 1:07:11] ▶

We just have better technology to capture it right now instead of a painting or a

[1:07:12 - 1:07:16] ▶

a, a, a, the side of a boulder. The cigar. Are you willing to share that cigar video with us?

[1:07:16 - 1:07:24] ▶

Absolutely. I will let you guys watch that cigar video and show it to you.

[1:07:24 - 1:07:28] ▶

Getting that video, it was not released with the other ones just because we didn't think it showed

[1:07:30 - 1:07:35] ▶

as profound of objects. But it still was, was valuable showing that the, that the agents do see stuff

[1:07:35 - 1:07:43] ▶

on a, on a continual basis. Okay, Bob. So the video is the one that nobody's seen before.

[1:07:43 - 1:07:51] ▶

What do you call it? It's been named the cigar video. Why is it called the cigar?

[1:07:52 - 1:07:57] ▶

It's got the, the object that's being observed in the, the camera is got the shape of the cigar.

[1:07:57 - 1:08:03] ▶

It's a kind of a short stubby cigar shape. And when was it taken? What was the circumstances in which

[1:08:03 - 1:08:08] ▶

it was taken? Oh, it was taken fairly close to around the time that the rubber duck was.

[1:08:08 - 1:08:13] ▶

Maybe within a few months or so. The agent that filmed the rubber duck sent it to me. He

[1:08:13 - 1:08:18] ▶

wanted me to look at it and see what I thought of it. So the same man who recorded the rubber duck

[1:08:18 - 1:08:23] ▶

video. That's correct. Was involved in the recording of this new video that nobody's seen before.

[1:08:23 - 1:08:28] ▶

That's correct. Okay, so let's have a look at it. All right. Okay, so that's the object you're

[1:08:28 - 1:08:35] ▶

talking about. It's like a stubby little cylinder. That's correct. I can see why they call it a cigar.

[1:08:35 - 1:08:41] ▶

It's very blurry. It is blurry. And I felt that it just didn't provide enough data.

[1:08:42 - 1:08:46] ▶

I showed, I showed Andy it, but it just, we didn't feel like it, it warranted, uh, it does seem

[1:08:47 - 1:08:54] ▶

to be moving incredibly fast. It does seem to be moving fast, and that could be due to the parallax

[1:08:54 - 1:08:59] ▶

effect as well. But do you agree that it, there's some kind of trial behind it? There does appear to be

[1:08:59 - 1:09:07] ▶

a trail behind it, but I can't tell it's such a low quality video that it could very well be artifact

[1:09:07 - 1:09:12] ▶

camera artifact. Oh, right. Okay. So it could be, you know, it's not something that was actually

[1:09:13 - 1:09:17] ▶

there. It's just a pixelation. No, but, but at the same time, that could be something that was

[1:09:17 - 1:09:22] ▶

attached to it as well. You know, maybe it was, uh, you know, something on a, uh, that is odd right

[1:09:22 - 1:09:28] ▶

there. Sure is. Is there anything we can determine from any of the data? Like, can you read in the

[1:09:28 - 1:09:35] ▶

original video any of the data? No, unfortunately, you can't. It's, it's just not a clear enough video and

[1:09:35 - 1:09:42] ▶

like I said, I don't think they, when they saw it, they wanted my opinion for sure, but I just

[1:09:43 - 1:09:50] ▶

didn't think it, it held the value like the other ones did. So is it, is it hot or cold that object?

[1:09:50 - 1:09:57] ▶

Well, looking at the terrain right now, I can't, I can't see the settings for the, the camera

[1:09:57 - 1:10:05] ▶

because they're blurred out. But to me, it looks like that is probably black hot because the trees

[1:10:05 - 1:10:11] ▶

are, are white hot. So that would be hot in my opinion, maybe. I mean, it almost looks like a

[1:10:11 - 1:10:17] ▶

missile. Could it be the F was testing a missile? That's a distinct possibility where it was filmed

[1:10:17 - 1:10:23] ▶

at. Maybe it's some sort of, you know, cruise missile or smart missile that's flying and,

[1:10:23 - 1:10:28] ▶

you know, being tracked, but it doesn't appear to have, you know, a vapor trail or anything else

[1:10:29 - 1:10:35] ▶

that would, because you'd expected glowing propulsion. You would think it would be.

[1:10:35 - 1:10:40] ▶

So questionable, just, you can't say one way or the other. Can't say what it is. I just, at that

[1:10:41 - 1:10:48] ▶

point in time, there, it did look like there was kind of a contrail, but I just don't think there's

[1:10:48 - 1:10:51] ▶

enough data to ascertain what it is. I mean, even, even there, at that point, it looks like it

[1:10:51 - 1:10:58] ▶

make it even be a combination of black hot and white hot, there. The thing I find fascinating

[1:10:58 - 1:11:04] ▶

is that in the F.O.Y. US Air Force reports, there are pilots report coming across cylindrical

[1:11:04 - 1:11:12] ▶

objects at hugely high altitudes. Well, that might fit the bill. Could it be the TickTack? The legendary

[1:11:12 - 1:11:19] ▶

TickTack? That would be incredibly tough to say, because I think that thing's only been seen near

[1:11:19 - 1:11:26] ▶

bodies by the ocean and stuff. Is that correct? I don't know, to be perfectly honest. I mean, I think

[1:11:27 - 1:11:32] ▶

people have seen cylindrical UFOs for many decades. It very well could be. Like I said, I just don't

[1:11:32 - 1:11:39] ▶

think there's enough data to make any determination with this. I would certainly love to see a clear,

[1:11:39 - 1:11:44] ▶

a clear version of this video to maybe make that determination, but I myself couldn't make a

[1:11:45 - 1:11:52] ▶

determination of what it was. The frustrating lesson from this particular video is what OD and I,

[1:11:52 - 1:12:01] ▶

the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, mandated in 2021, was the collection of all of

[1:12:01 - 1:12:08] ▶

this data on unidentified anomalous objects. It's so important, because you're the border protection

[1:12:08 - 1:12:15] ▶

guys at the time. You don't know what this was. No, not at all. That's a concern. I think so.

[1:12:15 - 1:12:24] ▶

And yet, everywhere in our administration of government, I see a deafening silence about

[1:12:24 - 1:12:31] ▶

videos like this and the four-rata videos you've shown us. It's concerning. It's certainly

[1:12:31 - 1:12:39] ▶

concerning knowing that whatever it is is flying around out in areas where I used to work for sure

[1:12:39 - 1:12:44] ▶

and there are people actively working. By definition, these have to be investigated, don't they?

[1:12:44 - 1:12:49] ▶

I would think it would be imperative to see what the intent of these things are.

[1:12:50 - 1:12:55] ▶

Would this incident have been kept and recorded on file somewhere inside border protection?

[1:12:56 - 1:13:00] ▶

Maybe with the platform that it was recorded from, not with border protection itself, because as you

[1:13:01 - 1:13:07] ▶

can hear in the video, you can hear the engines running of the RC-26 aircraft, which is an air

[1:13:07 - 1:13:13] ▶

national guard asset. It's frustrating, isn't it? It must be very frustrating for you to have

[1:13:13 - 1:13:19] ▶

hundreds of reports from Border Patrol agents. Clearly suggesting this is something that was

[1:13:19 - 1:13:26] ▶

of sufficient concern for them to report it to you.

[1:13:26 - 1:13:30] ▶

I think so. During the course of my duties, it didn't go out as a solicitation that I was on a

[1:13:30 - 1:13:39] ▶

detail that was trying to gather this data up. Maybe if it would have and not had a stigma associated

[1:13:39 - 1:13:46] ▶

with it or taboo associated with it, maybe I would have gotten more videos from agents. But,

[1:13:46 - 1:13:52] ▶

like I said, I've gotten eyewitness reports, statements from agents that have told me that they've

[1:13:52 - 1:13:58] ▶

seen other things, including openings of portals even on some of these cameras. So I take all that.

[1:13:58 - 1:14:05] ▶

I think agents have told you they've seen portals. Portals opening in the sky, stuff in the sky,

[1:14:05 - 1:14:11] ▶

filmed by a fleer camera. Just some of the stories I've heard.

[1:14:11 - 1:14:14] ▶

That's interesting. So what did you get told?

[1:14:14 - 1:14:19] ▶

I got told that they witnessed a portal opening up in the sky and there were pictures of it on a

[1:14:19 - 1:14:24] ▶

camera that I was able to see. It wasn't video, but there were pictures. Now, how do they know it was

[1:14:24 - 1:14:30] ▶

a portal rather than just a glowing oval, something like that? They said they saw something specifically

[1:14:30 - 1:14:35] ▶

open up and looked at it with the camera and took pictures of it with the camera. And I saw those

[1:14:35 - 1:14:42] ▶

pictures. It didn't reveal to me anything that I could name. It looked like a blob and a

[1:14:42 - 1:14:49] ▶

another circle around another blob. Would that video still exist? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It might,

[1:14:49 - 1:14:55] ▶

if it does, it's down in Sanoida on a handheld thermal camera. So, but the next video we want you

[1:14:56 - 1:15:02] ▶

to look at is I think the most interesting one. It's the Rubber Duck video. Now, this is importantly,

[1:15:02 - 1:15:08] ▶

this is the one that was sent by Andy to the scientific coalition for UAP studies for analysis.

[1:15:08 - 1:15:17] ▶

And they concluded definitively this object is a novelist. Let's have a look at it.

[1:15:17 - 1:15:23] ▶

That is the weirdest thing. It does have an odd shape. Could it be a balloon? Maybe something

[1:15:24 - 1:15:33] ▶

dangling below the balloon? No, I think you would probably see that in the video here. There's

[1:15:33 - 1:15:39] ▶

clearly enough room that if there was something dangling, it'd probably be a good 100-foot long

[1:15:39 - 1:15:45] ▶

cord if it was something above it. But to be honest, this shows, especially in the areas that are

[1:15:46 - 1:15:53] ▶

dark, that these may even be two separate objects. The weird thing about it is it really does look

[1:15:53 - 1:15:59] ▶

like a Rubber Duck. Does look like a Rubber Duck. And that's where the name came from. Could it be two

[1:15:59 - 1:16:04] ▶

objects? Well, there's been speculation that it could be two objects and you can see a space

[1:16:04 - 1:16:08] ▶

clearly between the objects when you go over a dark spot of the video. And the other thing about

[1:16:08 - 1:16:16] ▶

it is it's a lot colder than the surrounding areas as well. So what does the color of the object in

[1:16:16 - 1:16:25] ▶

this flue-remetry mean? It shows that that object is extremely cold. So it's not showing heat.

[1:16:25 - 1:16:32] ▶

And we know that because the plane flies over several cows during the course of the video and

[1:16:33 - 1:16:41] ▶

those cows will show up as black hot. Just sit the same for me. Where about is this tyco? Okay, so

[1:16:41 - 1:16:49] ▶

this video is taken down just off to the east of Sassabee, Arizona, on an area known as the Buenos

[1:16:49 - 1:16:58] ▶

R.A.'s National Wildlife Area. And the air above it is part of a military training? The air

[1:16:58 - 1:17:03] ▶

above it is part of what is known as the Rubefuzzy Moa. And it's a remote isolated part of the

[1:17:03 - 1:17:11] ▶

Arizona desert. It is a remote isolated part of the desert. There is a port of entry off to the west

[1:17:11 - 1:17:18] ▶

that you can cross into Mexico. But these guys are out there. They were tracked and got called for

[1:17:18 - 1:17:26] ▶

a group of illegal aliens that had come through and were out there looking for them when this thing

[1:17:26 - 1:17:32] ▶

popped through the viewfinder. It just happened to go right where they were looking for the bodies.

[1:17:32 - 1:17:37] ▶

So there was some speculation at first that this may have been some kind of cartel distraction

[1:17:37 - 1:17:42] ▶

to get the pilots and air support off of where the group may have been. But that didn't seem to

[1:17:42 - 1:17:50] ▶

be the case as this continued on. Okay, it was advocate for a moment. I mean, it could be perhaps

[1:17:50 - 1:17:56] ▶

two balloons tied together. Maybe it is that. Maybe the cartel sent two interesting looking balloons

[1:17:56 - 1:18:02] ▶

across the border to distract you. It appears just to be drifting erratically in a straight line.

[1:18:02 - 1:18:07] ▶

Unfortunately, SU's analysis did not show that rust. What this SU's analysis showed was that

[1:18:08 - 1:18:15] ▶

that object was going in a circular pattern as the RC26 metroliner was also circling over the top

[1:18:15 - 1:18:25] ▶

of it. They were making two circles at once. Also, it's not going in a straight line at all.

[1:18:25 - 1:18:29] ▶

It's not going in a straight line at all. So the aircraft's tracking it as it's moving in a circle.

[1:18:29 - 1:18:34] ▶

There was. And that's what the SU report shows as well. So what's in the middle of that circle?

[1:18:34 - 1:18:39] ▶

That's yet to be determined. But it would be interesting to find out, see what it was looking for.

[1:18:40 - 1:18:46] ▶

And that's the way it was described, Ross. This was described as an object in some sort of search

[1:18:47 - 1:18:52] ▶

pattern. So the implications of that are that on the SCU, on the scientific coalition for UIP

[1:18:52 - 1:18:59] ▶

studies analysis, this object is clearly intelligently controlled. It does have that appearance

[1:18:59 - 1:19:07] ▶

because it's, it's fair to say it was moving in a controlled way.

[1:19:08 - 1:19:14] ▶

That's what the pilots and the agent that gave it to me suggested that it was in a search pattern.

[1:19:14 - 1:19:21] ▶

They think they thought it was searching for something. And that was even written in the

[1:19:21 - 1:19:27] ▶

intelligence report that accompanied it. Were you able to speak to the pilots from the

[1:19:28 - 1:19:33] ▶

surveillance aircraft that recorded this? I was and I actually spoke to the sensor operator.

[1:19:33 - 1:19:38] ▶

The pilots weren't able to see this. They have a small screen in the front of the cockpit that allows

[1:19:38 - 1:19:42] ▶

them to see what the, what the mission sensor operator is filming. But it's difficult for them

[1:19:42 - 1:19:49] ▶

because it's not on a large screen. The mission sensor operator described it just as we have said.

[1:19:49 - 1:19:55] ▶

They seem to think it was searching for something, but they didn't know 100%.

[1:19:55 - 1:19:59] ▶

They're only a thing that they could pair it to was maybe a drone or a balloon.

[1:19:59 - 1:20:03] ▶

SCU, the scientific coalition for UIP studies, has ruled out the possibility that it was a balloon

[1:20:04 - 1:20:10] ▶

or a drone. It'd be interesting to talk to the pilots in the sensor operator now because I don't

[1:20:11 - 1:20:17] ▶

think they know that information and maybe this will help them in the future. Could it be

[1:20:17 - 1:20:23] ▶

some kind of technology that the US is testing in this remote part of the desert and unwittingly

[1:20:24 - 1:20:30] ▶

got caught by your surveillance cameras? That's a distinct possibility, especially with the

[1:20:30 - 1:20:34] ▶

kind of the climate of the Air Force bases in the private military contractors that are around

[1:20:35 - 1:20:40] ▶

the area. They certainly could be testing out something. I can't say for sure what it is.

[1:20:40 - 1:20:46] ▶

I have to say it's a ridiculous looking object. It is a ridiculous looking object.

[1:20:47 - 1:20:51] ▶

I think for the public domain, though, the crucial point to make is whilst it looks like it's

[1:20:51 - 1:20:58] ▶

moving in a straight line, you've got an aircraft that's circling as it's circling.

[1:20:58 - 1:21:03] ▶

One of the one of the stranger things that I've heard, there was an individual that said it,

[1:21:04 - 1:21:09] ▶

it looked like a man seated in lotus position flying across the desert. That was one of the

[1:21:09 - 1:21:15] ▶

utter explanations that I had heard. It's certainly pretty weird, but definitely anomalous.

[1:21:15 - 1:21:23] ▶

Well, it's similar to some of the other ones too. At times, this object does appear to

[1:21:23 - 1:21:28] ▶

kind of look like one of the other ones that we have, which is La Brewera.

[1:21:28 - 1:21:33] ▶

But one of the problems I have with a lot of videos I get sent by people is the blurry. They don't

[1:21:34 - 1:21:40] ▶

show much. But the cool thing about this video was that for the first time from the border

[1:21:40 - 1:21:48] ▶

protection videos, you were able to take it to a bunch of scientists who could analyze the data,

[1:21:48 - 1:21:55] ▶

the headings, the GPS points. That's correct. I think the data sets are probably one of the

[1:21:57 - 1:22:02] ▶

more important parts of that video. So that's corroborative evidence. You've also got the i-witness

[1:22:02 - 1:22:10] ▶

sensor operator in the operator and the agent. And the what's it? And the agent as well as the

[1:22:10 - 1:22:16] ▶

border protection. I said there was a border patrol agent in the X-rock. Sit next to the sensor operator.

[1:22:16 - 1:22:20] ▶

Two sets of human eyes looking at that object. They think it's weird. They think it's weird.

[1:22:20 - 1:22:26] ▶

The video when you analyze it and look at the implications of these data sets,

[1:22:27 - 1:22:32] ▶

the GPS locations, the speed, is it moving particularly first? No, it's not moving overly fast,

[1:22:33 - 1:22:39] ▶

but it was certainly moving fast enough for them to, you know, weren't looking at it because I

[1:22:39 - 1:22:45] ▶

think originally they may have thought it was something carrying an object. And the person

[1:22:45 - 1:22:51] ▶

that filmed this, that was one of their concerns as well. But when they observed it long enough,

[1:22:51 - 1:22:56] ▶

they determined that it didn't appear to be carrying any object. Because you've got to use your brain

[1:22:56 - 1:23:02] ▶

to watch this video, don't you? If you're a viewer sitting back home, what do you have to understand?

[1:23:02 - 1:23:07] ▶

It's not moving in a straight line. It's not moving in a straight line, but it doesn't have the

[1:23:07 - 1:23:12] ▶

kind of the defined what they are known as the five observables. So this is different in that aspect.

[1:23:13 - 1:23:20] ▶

But it is showing one of the five observables. It's not showing any visible propulsion system.

[1:23:20 - 1:23:25] ▶

Not any visible propulsion system. So the fascinating thing about this is the two sets of

[1:23:25 - 1:23:33] ▶

human eyes, the Border Patrol Agent, the Sensor Operator, they've reached the conclusion based on

[1:23:33 - 1:23:39] ▶

their analysis, expert witnesses. This can't be explained. Well, and they felt it important enough

[1:23:39 - 1:23:46] ▶

to follow it as well for the time frame that they did. So in many ways, what people have got to do

[1:23:46 - 1:23:51] ▶

back home is fight the instinctive prejudice to go look at just looks like a balloon floating across

[1:23:51 - 1:23:57] ▶

a landscape. Well, I've not seen any balloons like that. And if it is a rubber duck, you know, maybe

[1:23:57 - 1:24:02] ▶

a party balloon is flying backwards, not the normal way a party balloon would fly. But crucially,

[1:24:02 - 1:24:08] ▶

this object is definitive proof of being intelligently controlled. I don't know if you could go

[1:24:09 - 1:24:16] ▶

as far as that, but it's certainly doing things that make it seem like it is under intelligent control.

[1:24:16 - 1:24:22] ▶

How significant a video do you think this is? I think it just adds to the piece of the puzzle.

[1:24:23 - 1:24:30] ▶

And if it can provide that evidence for finding out what's going on in the grander picture,

[1:24:30 - 1:24:36] ▶

I think it's an important video. But in your book, in your investigation, you were looking for

[1:24:36 - 1:24:42] ▶

unidentified anomalous phenomena and no doubt about it. The kick out with this one, this is

[1:24:42 - 1:24:48] ▶

definitely anomalous. Well, it's been deemed that through S.E.U. for sure. So I am not a level of

[1:24:48 - 1:24:56] ▶

scientist in any former fashion like those guys there are, and I hold their opinion in high regard.

[1:24:56 - 1:25:01] ▶

But it was 2019 when this video was shot. That's correct. So we're talking five or six years

[1:25:01 - 1:25:07] ▶

since this video was shot. You've never got an answer for what this was, have you? Not

[1:25:07 - 1:25:12] ▶

not unless S.E.U. is the answer. It's anomalous. It's anomalous. And it concerned two

[1:25:12 - 1:25:20] ▶

operatives inside border protections sufficiently that they gave it to you.

[1:25:20 - 1:25:25] ▶

Yeah, they gave it to me to show it to me. I don't think they knew what I was going to do with it,

[1:25:25 - 1:25:30] ▶

but once that once it was looked at enough times by other border patrol agents,

[1:25:30 - 1:25:36] ▶

I was confident enough in knowing that it probably wasn't any of the things that we see on a normal

[1:25:36 - 1:25:42] ▶

basis, which are balloons and birds and stuff. So you can see the miles per hour. It's kind of

[1:25:42 - 1:25:48] ▶

jumping. Yeah. But at the peak, it's getting up to 200 miles an hour. Yeah, I'm not entirely certain

[1:25:48 - 1:25:55] ▶

that's the speed of it. You'd have to refer to the report to see what that showed. What you see

[1:25:55 - 1:26:02] ▶

on this freeze of the video, there's a distinct dot in the bottom of the corner. So let's watch

[1:26:02 - 1:26:09] ▶

what happens to that dot. So the dots clearly moving around the aircraft.

[1:26:09 - 1:26:17] ▶

It seemed at first the 810 passed that object and then that object for whatever reason decided

[1:26:17 - 1:26:23] ▶

to catch up to the 810, it appears. Could that be a balloon? There's no balloons that I know that

[1:26:23 - 1:26:30] ▶

can travel the speed of an 810. How fast is the 810 moving? I'm not an expert on 810, but I would

[1:26:30 - 1:26:36] ▶

assume it's upwards in the couple hundred mile per hour range. And could it be a drone?

[1:26:36 - 1:26:42] ▶

If a drone can travel a couple hundred miles per hour, that's something that someone should probably

[1:26:42 - 1:26:50] ▶

be interested in. Okay, so what we're seeing here is it looks like a sphere of some kind. I don't see

[1:26:50 - 1:26:56] ▶

any propulsion system on it. Do you? No, I do not. And yet it's moving at presumably simple

[1:26:56 - 1:27:02] ▶

hundred miles an hour to keep pace with the 810. Well, and then addition of that, it appears the

[1:27:02 - 1:27:07] ▶

810 notices it and kind of turns off. Did you have any opportunity to speak to the pilot? No,

[1:27:07 - 1:27:13] ▶

I did not. So this is a US Air Force plan. I've only spoken to the guy that was able to get me

[1:27:13 - 1:27:19] ▶

this video. That doesn't look like a drone, does it? It does not look like a drone. I mean, with the

[1:27:19 - 1:27:25] ▶

level of detail you can see of the aircraft here, you'd expect to see propellers. That's correct.

[1:27:25 - 1:27:30] ▶

And I think if it was a bird as well, you'd probably see more profound flapping if it was any bird of

[1:27:30 - 1:27:35] ▶

good size. What have the debunkers said about the video? Everything from birds to drag drones to

[1:27:36 - 1:27:43] ▶

balloons. It's the normal kind of banter. But crucially, in the documents that were dumped by

[1:27:43 - 1:27:49] ▶

their customs border protection, was there any attempt to explain it away? No, and there wasn't

[1:27:49 - 1:27:54] ▶

there wasn't a lot of the interest was generated internally with the guys that were familiar with

[1:27:54 - 1:28:02] ▶

the truck and had seen it before. And like I said, once I had put my feeders out for obtaining

[1:28:02 - 1:28:09] ▶

some of these videos, videos that showed stuff that was anomalous, this one came up and I had

[1:28:09 - 1:28:14] ▶

actually heard about this one for a while. So once I had the opportunity to get it, I was able to

[1:28:14 - 1:28:20] ▶

put it into the shared drive where that document ultimately ended up. What is it? I could not

[1:28:20 - 1:28:30] ▶

honestly tell you. Ross, I mean, you agree. It looks like a some kind of solid, maybe perhaps

[1:28:30 - 1:28:36] ▶

spherical object. It does. I think it morphs a little bit too. At one point in this video, it seemed

[1:28:36 - 1:28:42] ▶

to be like it was tumbling. So I don't know if you compare it to the size of the A10, it could be

[1:28:42 - 1:28:50] ▶

a fairly good size. Maybe that's three feet wide, three, four feet wide. I don't know what's

[1:28:52 - 1:28:58] ▶

the length of an A10 or the wingspan of an A10. Were you able to find any explanation for what

[1:28:58 - 1:29:05] ▶

that object might be? No. And from my searching, looking for any type of incident report, that was

[1:29:05 - 1:29:11] ▶

generated with it, came up with nothing. So I just don't think it was reported. But the interesting

[1:29:11 - 1:29:18] ▶

thing is you know about this because this was detected by border protection. Do we know if the

[1:29:18 - 1:29:24] ▶

US Air Force even knows that one of its A10 aircraft was being cracked by an object? Well, there is

[1:29:24 - 1:29:31] ▶

the story of the Air Force coming down and commandeering that file. They took the file? We just

[1:29:33 - 1:29:41] ▶

happened to get it before the Air Force took it. Oh, so the Air Force came in. I don't know any more

[1:29:41 - 1:29:47] ▶

than that Ross. I do know that the Air Force came down with a laptop, plugged it into the truck,

[1:29:47 - 1:29:52] ▶

took that file and left. No further explanation. No further explanation. Much like the other one we

[1:29:53 - 1:30:00] ▶

talked about. Which does suggest that they became aware of it from someone in border protection.

[1:30:00 - 1:30:05] ▶

Someone from border protection or maybe it was the pilot that reported it and it just took a

[1:30:05 - 1:30:09] ▶

while to track down where the video was at. The fascinating thing is in the report to Congress,

[1:30:09 - 1:30:18] ▶

the Pentagon's UAP investigation office claims there's absolutely no evidence of anything

[1:30:18 - 1:30:25] ▶

that might be non-human. Well, it would be nice if they saw this video and I think it adds to

[1:30:26 - 1:30:33] ▶

speculation as to what this could be and I think it shows a pretty interesting piece of evidence.

[1:30:34 - 1:30:38] ▶

Again, you think this is anomalous? I do think it's anomalous.

[1:30:38 - 1:30:42] ▶

So the HN here is clearly being pursued or followed by some kind of object.

[1:30:42 - 1:30:51] ▶

Okay, so that object chasing the A10 there. So the fourth video is La Brouha, the witch.

[1:30:53 - 1:31:00] ▶

So it's set this way up 40. So this was filmed on the Tahona Audem Indian Reservation

[1:31:02 - 1:31:07] ▶

and it's by a little village by the name of Topawa. The truck sits up on a hill that kind of overlooks

[1:31:08 - 1:31:14] ▶

the area that's known for smuggling operations by the cartel. This object was something that came

[1:31:14 - 1:31:23] ▶

into the frame that the operator clearly saw. I don't have a backstory behind this other than

[1:31:23 - 1:31:28] ▶

that was just sitting there labeled Topawa UFO video. Okay.

[1:31:28 - 1:31:34] ▶

What's that? It actually looks like a humanoid form. It moves very bizarrely.

[1:31:36 - 1:31:41] ▶

It looks like a spice man. That was one of my first impressions was that it was someone maybe

[1:31:42 - 1:31:46] ▶

with a jet pack cruising across the desert. I could it be a jet pack. I would think it would show

[1:31:46 - 1:31:51] ▶

something different on the camera. You'd probably see a more profound heat signature from a jet pack.

[1:31:51 - 1:31:56] ▶

Is that a heat signature? No, because unfortunately if you look, those cows are reflecting back

[1:31:56 - 1:32:04] ▶

that black hot. So that means that they are the heat showing black. The object up at the top

[1:32:04 - 1:32:11] ▶

is white, which means it's ice cold. Okay, so let's see what happens.

[1:32:11 - 1:32:15] ▶

The cows don't react. They don't react. You know, and it's difficult to see the perspective there.

[1:32:18 - 1:32:24] ▶

Those two cows look like they're closer to where that object is. And at that point in time,

[1:32:24 - 1:32:30] ▶

if you look, it almost looks like something was coming out of the bottom of the object.

[1:32:30 - 1:32:36] ▶

But if it was a jet pack, you would think it would make quite a ruckus. And any cow would be

[1:32:36 - 1:32:41] ▶

startled by that. I would think so. That's moving seemingly silently across the landscape.

[1:32:41 - 1:32:46] ▶

That's correct. And it's quite a large object. It's almost as large as those cows.

[1:32:46 - 1:32:49] ▶

Well, and you can see it with reference to the Swarov cactus. The Swarov cactuses are those black

[1:32:49 - 1:32:55] ▶

line objects there too. So it's almost half of the size of one of those. And some

[1:32:55 - 1:33:01] ▶

shots. It seems to be moving around in its horizontal plane as well.

[1:33:01 - 1:33:05] ▶

There's a couple of areas where it looks like it makes a turn and maybe even some dust gets kicked

[1:33:05 - 1:33:11] ▶

up at one point. I mean, could it be the cattel pumping up a balloon and putting a balloon

[1:33:11 - 1:33:16] ▶

over that border? Well, if it is, it certainly distracted your border patrol operatives, hasn't it?

[1:33:16 - 1:33:22] ▶

I would say so. If that was a balloon or a cartel delivery device, it's certainly

[1:33:23 - 1:33:31] ▶

superior to anything that we have. Because is there any evidence that it's moving intelligently?

[1:33:32 - 1:33:38] ▶

It just seems to be drifting. Well, there's a place in the video where it looks like it maybe

[1:33:38 - 1:33:43] ▶

makes a turn. But yeah, I would say that you couldn't really make the argument that it is

[1:33:43 - 1:33:50] ▶

under intelligent control, but it is moving in a way that... Is that the point where it looks

[1:33:50 - 1:33:56] ▶

like it might have turned? Yeah, did you see that? Yeah. It looks like it leaned over a bit. Maybe

[1:33:56 - 1:34:01] ▶

I'm stumped on it. I have no idea what it is. Why did they call it La Brueja? Well, that was Andy's

[1:34:03 - 1:34:12] ▶

choice. And it resembles a lot of things that were seen down in Mexico and central America.

[1:34:13 - 1:34:20] ▶

That's where it turned. Exactly. To me, that's certainly anomalous. So when you were doing your

[1:34:20 - 1:34:28] ▶

analyses, were you looking at the prevailing weather conditions? I mean, could there have been a wind

[1:34:28 - 1:34:32] ▶

that may be blue that is a balloon, of course? Certainly. And if it's able to dodge some of the

[1:34:32 - 1:34:39] ▶

cactuses and other things, that's quite a remarkable balloon. So you actually see that. You see it

[1:34:39 - 1:34:45] ▶

moving away from cactuses. It appears that way in a couple of the segments there.

[1:34:45 - 1:34:50] ▶

Because that's the other issue too, is it's not... You know, you can delineate a distance because

[1:34:51 - 1:34:56] ▶

it's moving in front of cactuses at different times. You can see that. You can definitely see that.

[1:34:56 - 1:35:01] ▶

And doing that, you can calculate a speed. You could. I didn't take the time to calculate the speed

[1:35:01 - 1:35:06] ▶

that's far past my ability. But in your view, anomalous. I would say so. What it could be, I couldn't,

[1:35:06 - 1:35:17] ▶

I couldn't even begin to speculate. There's nothing from a mundane standpoint, like I said, with the

[1:35:17 - 1:35:22] ▶

hours that I have observing cows and everything else that even makes sense that does what this thing

[1:35:22 - 1:35:31] ▶

does. What's the story behind this video? So this video was given to me by the same guy that

[1:35:31 - 1:35:39] ▶

filmed the rubber duck video. He wanted me to take a peek at it and see what I thought of it.

[1:35:39 - 1:35:43] ▶

So when I got it, one of the first things I noticed was it wasn't the greatest equality.

[1:35:43 - 1:35:48] ▶

Is the U.S. government hiding something? I think that's a question that the American public probably

[1:35:48 - 1:35:57] ▶

should be asking. And do you think it's a legitimate question? Well, it's a legitimate question that I

[1:35:58 - 1:36:04] ▶

think is trying to be del legitimized in public or at least by maybe certain parts of the government.

[1:36:04 - 1:36:13] ▶

Knowing what you know, have we all in the public arena been hoodwinked? Do you think there's a

[1:36:13 - 1:36:19] ▶

gang going on? Somebody's pulling strings to keep this from us? Well, they can tell you that you're

[1:36:19 - 1:36:24] ▶

not seeing something so many times, but if people are seeing these things, at some point in time,

[1:36:24 - 1:36:29] ▶

there's going to be a tipping point it would appear. You think there's something there, don't you?

[1:36:29 - 1:36:34] ▶

I do think there's something there. What it is, I don't know. But I think it is non-human.

[1:36:34 - 1:36:43] ▶

Good on you, buddy. Thank you. Cheers.

[1:36:43 - 1:36:45] ▶

Thanks for watching. Go to joinnn.com to find news nation on your television provider.

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