328 segments
G'day and welcome to Reality Chick.
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today than he did in his 40s.
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Professor Gary Nolan, thank you so much for joining us.
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Can you firstly give me an idea of your credentials to talk about the injuries and the person
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that we're going to be talking about today?
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So I'm a PhD molecular immunologist and the Department of Pathology at Stanford University.
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My background has been in developing technologies to deeply understand how the immune system
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goes awry whether it's in autoimmunity or cancer.
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And over the years, we've developed a number of instruments and approaches that are now
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used around the world for doing exactly that.
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You've been involved before I know in special investigations into service personnel and intelligence
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personnel who suffered injuries, exposures of an anomalous nature.
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What can you tell us about those investigations?
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So those investigations started literally almost 12 years ago when representatives from the
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CIA and an aerospace corporation showed up at my office here at Stanford and knocked on
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the door completely unexpected to me with no prior arrangement and said that they needed
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my help with a number of servicemen, probably a few dozen at the time, who had encountered
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everything from rashes, headaches, a number of other ailments as well as the in the rare
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cases claiming that they had seen some sort of anomalous objects.
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The long and the short of it was that after looking at the data that was provided to me by
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the people who came to my door on that day, I realized that this was not a joke because
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you can't fake the kinds of MRIs and CAT scans that I had seen that showed clear and acute
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and now chronic damage.
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I mean, you can't have the kind of acute damage that was represented on those on the data
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that I was shown and not expect to have long-term consequences because of it.
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So the reason they had come to me was because they wanted to understand the inflammatory
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processes that might have been occurring in the blood and my laboratory at the time and
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still today actually has the world's best devices for looking at inflammatory processes
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What were you able to conclude from that research?
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Well, many of the events that were brought to me at the time had occurred so long ago
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that there was no residual trace in the blood nor would it what I have expected to see that.
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But in follow-ups with the number of the individuals, including one of the people about whom we'll
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talk today, again, there's no possibility of not having long-term consequences that are
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inclusive of autoimmune disorders.
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And so in the rare individuals that I was able to follow up with over time, they also
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had these same kinds of long-term consequences.
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So you have an acute injury of some kind that ends up being a long-term downside for you.
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Professor, what can you tell me about the specific nature of the kind of injuries you were
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seeing back then when you started doing this research for the CIA?
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So whole body sclerosis, meaning patches of redness across the skin, discreasures,
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of the blood at the time we're seeing, meaning in some of those individuals, long-term
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apparent imbalances in the numbers of cell types that you should expect to see in the
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We weren't able to go into gory detail about it, again, given the long-term nature of this.
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But certainly almost a form of PTSD, not only because of the events as they had occurred
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but the lack of follow-through by the Department of Defense and the Veterans Administration
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for their long-term care.
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Actually, an interestingly leading to now a document that's been put out by the government
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on anomalous health incidents that covers, in an umbrella sense, a lot of these kinds
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One of the cases I've investigated, and I know you've taken an interest in the subject
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as well as the Rendolsham case of 1980.
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And its public information that a man called John Burrows was exposed to some kind of
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an injury allegedly as a result of his exposure to an anomalous object in that event, are you
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able to talk at all about anything that you know about their taste?
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You know, I really shouldn't because it does, although it's hepper protected, I am aware
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of things behind the scenes related to John that anything I could say probably touches
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on hepper-related knowledge.
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I mean, what is the public, and I can talk about, is that John McCain, Senator McCain,
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was able to overcome a block that the Department of Defense had initiated on John's medical records.
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And because that block was in place, John was unable to get the Veterans Administration
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to agree that he should be insured for the kinds of ailments that he was claiming.
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Because of the intervention of some individuals through Harry, sorry, through John McCain,
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they were able to overcome the block to the VA, release his medical report that which was sealed,
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and that allowed him to get the care that he needed, and that probably saved his life.
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Is it a causation or a correlation? Are you able to say definitively that anomalous events
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possibly involving UAPs, perhaps non-human technology of some kind, have they caused injuries
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or is there merely a correlation of injuries that you've seen?
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I've seen, unfortunately, no direct causation.
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I've seen situations where people have come to me and said the following occurred,
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and here are the medical events that I didn't have prior to this occurrence.
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So all I have are stories that other people come to me with that are, you would call second-hand stories.
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But I have seen the damage, and I can't explain what it is that the damage,
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what would have actually caused such damage, absence of some kind of radiation.
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So that was my next question. Is what you're seeing in some cases consistent with exposure to damaging gamma radiation?
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Well, there's all kinds of ionizing radiation gamma amongst them.
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So any kind of, I mean, enough heat on you, which is a kind of radiation,
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it's just a different frequency, would cause different kinds of damage.
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It's the damage inside of the body that you're most worried about.
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I mean, there's surface damage, of course.
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Let's talk about Jake Barber.
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You've had an opportunity, haven't you, to meet Jake,
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and essentially take a history from him.
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We're talking about his condition with his permission.
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So he is not an issue here, but obviously we respect a lot of his privacy.
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What can you tell us about what he exposed to?
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Well, I've looked at all of Jake's medical reports going back to practically, I think, 1998, 2000.
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And I think he was 21 or 23 or so at the time.
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And the acute injuries were obviously severe, including erythema all the way down the arm,
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slapping off of skin from the long-term damage.
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I mean, the report leads like a bit of a horror show, to be quite honest.
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And I wouldn't say that his physicians were not responsive to the need,
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but what I saw throughout was a confusion on the part of the physicians as to what could possibly cause this.
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I mean, they can drop it into a set of symptomologies, but they can't explain why under one particular causation
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you would get all of these things.
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Absent to me, what the first thing that came to mind was you were exposed to some kind of radiation.
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And so I, especially since I only came to know Jake in the last year or so,
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my strong recommendation to him at the time was we need to get a full workup of what it is and how it stands now.
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Because if this was radiation, I mean one of the obvious consequences of radiation,
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especially something which would cause this kind of systemic effect, is cancer.
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And so you need a baseline whole body MRI done so that maybe you don't have something now.
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But that, you know, the best thing in cancer is that you can see a change that has occurred over time.
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So let's get that done.
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And I had him seen by one of the world's best rheumatologists to make sure that we had the blood drawn from him,
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not just as a standard white blood cell count and things like that.
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But to be able to do a full-on rheumatologic test for the kinds of co-factors and things that I know can be done with modern tests today,
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that probably weren't, well, I know weren't done back in the day.
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Do you think the secrecy around the kind of operations that Jake did as a Tier 1 operator?
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Do you think the secrecy confounded the proper medical treatment that he should have received,
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despite the perhaps good intentions of his doctors?
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It's a great question. I would have to talk to Jake to see whether or not he was ever denied anything.
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But certainly he wasn't given the kinds of advice that he should have been given, I would say,
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because what the advice that I gave him was, here are the XYZ things that you need to have done for you,
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and here are the kinds of people that you need to see.
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So had the VA been on their toes and had the VA, let's say, because of the kinds of situations and deployments that Jake was put into the hospital,
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and the kinds of complaints that he came back to, any manager who had even an inkling of empathy or for thought would have said,
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hey, here's what we need to go have done for you, XYZ, and especially as I understand it,
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a number of his co-workers in the deployments that he was in had similar problems.
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So you're not dealing with a one-off who went home and somehow came in contact with something in the house,
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but you have four or five individuals all at once coming down with the same thing within a week or so after deployment.
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That's more than a coincidence.
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So can I just clarify here, Professor, you've been able to look at all of Jake's four military medical records,
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and you've been able to satisfy yourself as to the level of, essentially, what's described about what he suffered?
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What did the records show about the reported injury that he suffered?
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Well, first of all, having to try and to read some of the doctors scribbling was hard enough,
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but it was very clear that there were acute injuries to the arms and the legs, sorry, the arms and the hands.
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So here are some of the consolidated findings.
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One of them that I know he deals with even to this day is alopecia, something called migratory alopecia,
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hair loss that moves from one area of the body to the other.
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It's consistent with a kind of autoimmune reaction, which is that the immune system takes care of something once,
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or you get some sort of local injury on one day or one week, and then that initiates an immune reaction in one place or another.
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Another is a vesicular rash, so skin eruptions which are characterized by small blister-filling things.
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It's not an autoimmune that you get with when you have one kind of autoimmune, usually it doesn't come and show up as five different kinds of autoimmune.
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Here are some other ones, and this is related, in fact, to a form of infection with the yeast candida albicans.
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You get something called candidaeus, chronic mucocutaneous candidaeusus, and that's a form of yeast infection.
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What's interesting about that is that basically means at least one of two things.
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One is that you have either underlying immune disorder that's occurring, which is allowing for the candida to grow on the skin,
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or you have some kind of disruption in the dermal apparatus and dermal protection, which means that you've had some sort of autoimmune reaction,
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which allows for the skin to be broken, the candida lands, it's in our environment, grows that forms and causes further rashes, etc.
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That sets up sort of you start with a brush fire and soon it becomes a full-on forest fire. That's one of them.
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It looks like a general autoimmune disease, arithmetosis, macular, popular dry lesions on the hands and feet.
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All of these things adding up to a disrupted immune system that's been set off-kilter and is unable to write itself again.
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The only kinds of things that cause that are either intense exposure to toxins, but one kind or another, an intense infection at one point in one's life that can set these kinds of things off,
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or some kind of consequential exposure to radiation of some kind.
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So that's what you've been able to have used from the medical records. You've done a whole series of tests now, and you've obviously over-
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I haven't done any tests. I haven't done any tests.
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Tests have been done, but they have not provided him the results yet.
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So you believe that one of the plausible explanations for why it has the injuries that he's clearly suffered is that potentially he's been exposed to some kind of severe radiation.
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Yeah, I mean that's the easiest reach for this. Now there's ways to test for that. There might be ways to test for in the skin and access of mutation in the skin.
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Now interestingly, one of the things that Jay has, although it could be just due to intense sun exposure, is what are called atypical compound nevis.
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And those are these irregularly shaped brown spots that very often Caucasians have, and you're more likely to find them in people of Irish or Celtic descent.
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But atypical compound nevis is a form of a result of exposure to damaging radiation of one kind or another.
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One of the anomalies, if you like, about Jake's story is officially in his DD214.
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He's only described as an aircraft mechanic, but it's clear from his service record and the fuller extent of the details of the service that we've been able to obtain from documents and also from some of his fellow colleagues.
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He was clearly operating as an elite tier one operator in a very covert role with the US government. Is that your impression as well?
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Yes, my interactions with Jake over the last year, including visiting him at a, let's call it a worksite, clearly indicated to me that Jake's not just a helicopter operator.
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He's not a taxi. That's for sure. And his level of knowledge and the things that he was able to talk to me about that were not releasing or providing any information he wasn't supposed to provide, but the people with whom he surrounded himself.
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And their level of activity and action was there not just a conveyor of somebody's goods that they are deeply knowledgeable about this subject matter. And it actually, for me, watching and listening to the kinds of things that they did, the level of sophistication of things that are going on behind the scenes was eye-opening to me.
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Let's talk about in a limited way what you personally witnessed. There was a summoning. There was a psionic operator brought to a location. We won't depulate. Where? What did you see?
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Well, I saw two things. One, I saw an individual who claimed the ability to me, which is even to me, is almost unbelievable to hear that somebody claims to have that kind of capability.
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But we also had somebody with us who was using electromagnetic summoning, if you will, basically putting out radio frequency that might or might not be attractive to alleged craft.
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I personally didn't see anything in the sky or on the ground. But what I did see was an individual who, in the midst of attempting to call such an object, which again, to anybody listening and my science colleagues who might hear me say this, was just, I don't even believe that I'm sitting here seeing this.
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Exactly at the moment that he said he was interacting with something. The individual on the roof who had the cameras saw something. Now, they didn't know nor were they in contact with each other, but we could hear a commotion on the roof.
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When everything was over and we had calmed down the individual who said that he had had some issues and are in the process of this summoning. And we made sure that medically he was okay.
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Because on the team, we actually did have somebody who was medically trained. When we reviewed what it was that the person on the roof had seen both by drawing and by videography.
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Something showed up. I mean, it was fleeting, but it was clearly not a bug. And so what do I have? I have a person who claims to be doing something. It was clear that he was in distress at the moment of the supposed interaction.
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And at that moment, something is seen. What do you have? You have a correlation. You don't have a causation. And so that's it. But I was there not to provide any conclusions. I was there to make sure that everything that was being done was being done in a scientifically accurate way as dispassionately as possible.
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And to be part of the advisor team to make sure that this was done in a way that at some point, if it ever wanted to be put together into a scientific paper, we had collected the kind of metadata required to say, well, we might not have a conclusion.
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But here is at least a story that tells us that the data which we're providing to perhaps some future event might be looked back to and said, oh, well, what happened there worked. That didn't work. So let's try this again so that we can perhaps make it repeatable.
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So Professor, on the evidence you've seen, do you find it plausible that the US government is using psionic psychic operators to attract UAP NHI craft?
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I can only say what I saw there was somebody who claimed to be interacting with something. Do I think it's possible?
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You know, we're already working in the world of the Elon Musk's who are putting devices into people's brains to be able to talk directly to brains.
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I have no problem imagining technology a thousand years from now where even humans can interact with each other in some sort of pseudo-sionic manner.
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I don't know what it is that might be required to interact with a non-human intelligence. But what I can say is that the area within which we were working was absent of any possible overfly from commercial jets because it was a mandated area where nothing such could occur.
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So what it was that we saw wasn't a flyover. It certainly wasn't a bug. So we can get rid of all of those opportunities. But the fact that the group with whom we were working were able to openly operate in this area because they had openly operated in this kind of area before.
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And knew how to do it. Tells me that there's a process in place for individuals of this type to access where they're freely allowed to do what they're doing.
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I think we can expect, as has happened in the past, that there may be a tear disinformed public about Jake Barber.
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What are you able to tell me about your impressions of the authenticity and the honesty of Jake Barber as a result of your interactions with him?
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I worked with him directly for a week and anybody who thinks that he's other than what he presents himself as just should get out of the way.
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There's no reason to think of him as anything other than an honest broker at every level. Ethical to the end degree and pathic to a degree that I wouldn't have frankly bizarrely expect as an academic elitist from somebody in military capacity as such a dee is far more human than many of the scientists within my have to interact every day.
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I mean, and we've interviewed Jake and his colleagues, including the men who was on the roof with the cameras. These men have been profoundly affected by what they've witnessed.
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Yes, and again, you have individuals whose daily job is to protect the United States. I mean, that's their day job. That's what their day job has been for the last many years.
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And anybody who thinks that these are not professionals who have something to say and are in, I think, the most scientifically accurate sense.
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They've seen something anomalous. They recognize it as being out of place. They're willing to put their lives, their families, their jobs, their reputations on the line to point out to others that this is something that should be paid attention to.
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I mean, that's just the very nature of forward movement. And that anybody, scientists or governments or anybody would try to disinform or stigmatize that.
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Just is, to me, it's just, it's a level of vialness and disreputeable behavior that I just don't, I don't understand how anybody could do it and say that just because it's my job to do it, that I should do it.
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Anybody who that's their job, they should resign.
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Let's be very clear about this, Sir. Jake Barber and his colleagues, alleged that they have been party to an operation involving the luring of and shooting down of and retrieval of non-human technology.
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Alien spacecraft. Do you find their accounts plausible?
[0:28:19 - 0:28:24] ▶
I sat at dinner several evenings over beers and otherwise while we were partaking in this operation. And I heard nothing that would tell me that what they were telling me was not true.
[0:28:24 - 0:28:39] ▶
It all seemed to fit together in a way that in some of the details that I don't, I don't know what was relayed.
[0:28:39 - 0:28:48] ▶
But some of the details were so astounding to me. I found, I felt like I was sitting in a science fiction movie. Until I thought to myself, well, if some of these observations are true that people are claiming to see or involve themselves with, what would you need to construct the behind the scenes?
[0:28:48 - 0:29:14] ▶
That is, that sensibly, even in a science fiction setting, makes sense of all of this. And what I heard was at least a story that tied it together.
[0:29:14 - 0:29:27] ▶
But the story that tied it together involved a level of government complicity and medical complicity from individuals who, how could you possibly subject some of these individuals? And I saw some of the medical reports, again, of other individuals who are part of these teams.
[0:29:27 - 0:29:49] ▶
How could you be complicit in doing this to some of these individuals and signing off on it? I mean, your name is right there. We know who you are. And you're still doing what you were doing before. It just astounds me that the records are as clear as day.
[0:29:49 - 0:30:15] ▶
But some of these, especially the medical records, are not, hey, someone's telling me something. The medical records are there. And they're the same kinds of medical records that I got when the CIA showed up in my office. And it's that level of detail. All you can see is somebody isn't doing their job.
[0:30:15 - 0:30:35] ▶
Professor, as Jake Barber describes it, he and his colleagues were asked to escort what he describes as a very large box on an on a flight, which brought this object, whatever it was inside the box, back to the continental United States.
[0:30:35 - 0:30:52] ▶
He never told what was in the box, but he got very, very sick here in his colleagues in the days following their exposure, their close proximity to that box. Now, are you able to say, are you able to make any kind of a conclusion at all about the nature of the radiation that they received?
[0:30:52 - 0:31:13] ▶
Was it anomalous? Or were, are you able to reach any conclusion about the, perhaps what might be the cause of that radiation?
[0:31:13 - 0:31:23] ▶
Well, I mean, what you can see at the least is that there was a form of penetrative radiation because it was more than just skin damage. Some of the apparent damage went skin deep, right, or went deeper into the bodies.
[0:31:23 - 0:31:39] ▶
Now, I haven't seen any MRIs from these individuals to look for the scarring, but the kinds of effects, such as the whole body depilation, loss of hair, and not just on the side of the body that you're sitting next to it on the helicopter or plane, but that it's whole body means that it probably penetrated through the body.
[0:31:39 - 0:32:07] ▶
Right, so you've got it with it, you're back to you, you've got it in the front, but your eyebrows, the hair falls out, et cetera.
[0:32:07 - 0:32:15] ▶
So, penetrative generally means gamma, or very high level radiation. It's not just something like alpha or low, low energy.
[0:32:15 - 0:32:28] ▶
So, I can't say what was in the box, obviously. It could have been from a nuclear-powered airplane for all I know. It doesn't matter, some sort of test vehicle.
[0:32:28 - 0:32:41] ▶
But that they were not made aware of what was going to be in the box. That sounds unethical.
[0:32:41 - 0:32:52] ▶
That you're told to go pick up something which is known to be radiative. That's, to me, problematic.
[0:32:52 - 0:33:01] ▶
Now, from the previous and unrelated work that you've done with the CIA, you've examined military service personnel who've been exposed to what sounds like anomalous phenomena, including potentially directed energy weapons of some kind.
[0:33:01 - 0:33:20] ▶
What you're seeing with Jake are similar types of injuries.
[0:33:20 - 0:33:25] ▶
Correct. Right, so over the hundred or so individuals that we looked at, they had a panoply of different symptoms.
[0:33:25 - 0:33:35] ▶
The majority of those patients, 85 to 90% of them, literally 100, that we looked at.
[0:33:35 - 0:33:43] ▶
It was pretty clear that they had symptomologies that were so similar to Havana syndrome as it would be easy enough to say, these are Havana syndrome.
[0:33:44 - 0:33:53] ▶
Now, Havana syndrome is actually a syndrome in medical terminology. It's a set of symptoms. It's not like a disease. Like COVID causes disease.
[0:33:53 - 0:34:07] ▶
Ebola causes a disease and you have a specific set of expected outcomes in both those cases. Some of those outcomes could be death.
[0:34:07 - 0:34:17] ▶
In a symptom or a syndrome, I should say, it's usually you have about 20 or so different symptoms, which you have to have, let's say, 15 of those symptoms to be classified under the syndrome.
[0:34:17 - 0:34:33] ▶
So some of the individuals, even those that we said were Havana syndrome, had sclerosis on their skin.
[0:34:33 - 0:34:42] ▶
So whatever the radiation was that was being used, caused damage to the skin, other would get headaches.
[0:34:42 - 0:34:50] ▶
Now, that makes perfect sense because if over the course of 20 years, whoever was using these directed energy weapons developed better and better versions of it,
[0:34:50 - 0:34:59] ▶
you would expect that the damage that it causes over those decades would be different, no problem there.
[0:34:59 - 0:35:06] ▶
But when you have now a situation such as a radiation, such as what Jake Barber was exposed to, it would fall under some of the symptoms of Havana syndrome.
[0:35:06 - 0:35:24] ▶
But would have, in this case, especially long term, 20 plus year consequences of a disrupted immune system that has really basically, I'm surprised he can function as well as he does day to day.
[0:35:24 - 0:35:39] ▶
What do you think of the ethics of the decisions made by the people who obviously made the orders to send people like Jake into these operations?
[0:35:39 - 0:35:49] ▶
What do you think of the ethics of the people behind these operations in deploying young men and indeed young women into situations where they have been exposed to dangerous levels of radiation?
[0:35:49 - 0:36:02] ▶
You know, I mean, I understand that in the military, tough choices have to be made.
[0:36:02 - 0:36:08] ▶
And you sign up for a certain level of danger all the way up to, including death.
[0:36:08 - 0:36:15] ▶
So on all sides, I honor what they've done.
[0:36:15 - 0:36:19] ▶
But I also think that there's an ethics of do no harm when you don't have to.
[0:36:19 - 0:36:25] ▶
And so in a situation where you could, unless there was some desperate need to get to it before somebody else did or put other people under harms in harm's way, to the very least send them with the kinds of protective gear that they could have had to prevent what did happen.
[0:36:25 - 0:36:47] ▶
So is sound is either unethical or an administrative oversight that needs investigation by Congress because we shouldn't be putting people like this under such circumstances.
[0:36:47 - 0:37:01] ▶
So Gary, I know that you've taken an interest previously, Jim Case, which was the ref bent waters case at a British air base, which the Americans were also occupying in around 1980.
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And there were a number of military personnel who reported coming into contact with what they say was a craft of some kind, acting anomalously in the Rindlesham forest adjacent to a military base that we know carried nuclear weapons for the American military.
[0:37:16 - 0:37:34] ▶
And one of the personnel that was the close up to the craft, in fact, probably one of the closest, was an airman named John Burrows.
[0:37:34 - 0:37:44] ▶
And I'm aware that John Burrows' medical reports were at one stage withheld by the American government and they were declined to be provided to him so that he could get the treatment that he needed from veterans affairs, the VA.
[0:37:44 - 0:37:59] ▶
What do you know about that case?
[0:37:59 - 0:38:02] ▶
Well, certainly everything you said that you just told me there. I know about it. I was working with individuals behind the scenes to try to get the relevant information to John McCain so that we could get his medical records declassified.
[0:38:02 - 0:38:19] ▶
They were classified. They just weren't withheld. They were classified.
[0:38:19 - 0:38:23] ▶
And what was happening was that Mr. Burrows could not get the medical attention he needed because the insurance services in the VA wouldn't allow for it.
[0:38:23 - 0:38:34] ▶
So again, you have a situation where someone has been...
[0:38:34 - 0:38:39] ▶
So let's say that whatever it was that was at that site was a US military test object.
[0:38:39 - 0:38:51] ▶
Why would you put your military service people in harm's way, first of all, maybe they didn't know what the danger was.
[0:38:51 - 0:39:03] ▶
Either the people put in your arms while you're not, but then why would you subsequently feel that the issue was so important as to not allow for that person's medical records to be released?
[0:39:03 - 0:39:15] ▶
What are you hiding? What's being hidden here when it turned out that it required a senator in the US to directly demand to the Department of Defense release it or I will?
[0:39:15 - 0:39:28] ▶
It really does beg the question, Professor, doesn't it? Is the reason for the continuing non-disclosure about a non-human intelligence that's allegedly engaging with...
[0:39:28 - 0:39:40] ▶
Is it really for the high-minded reasons that are often cited privately by the gatekeepers or is it perhaps because they're worried about being held to a cut for the allegedly unethical and potentially illegal, if not criminal things that we're talking about today?
[0:39:40 - 0:39:56] ▶
Yeah, I mean that to me is when I'm asked, what is it that might be the reasons for things being hidden?
[0:39:56 - 0:40:03] ▶
I don't think it's because the populist is going to be running screaming into the streets, worried about non-human intelligence.
[0:40:03 - 0:40:10] ▶
I think they're really still, as we see today, worried about what puts foods on the table.
[0:40:10 - 0:40:17] ▶
I think you're right, one of the main reasons certainly could be, we don't want this information out because I'm going to get in trouble.
[0:40:17 - 0:40:25] ▶
Someone's going to get in trouble for something unethical. Where's the paperwork that these people are filling out to make sure that the people that they're responsible to and for are being taken care of the way that they should?
[0:40:25 - 0:40:39] ▶
And certainly when it comes to the long-term consequences of human health. And then the health of their children.
[0:40:39 - 0:40:45] ▶
I mean, God, if you were putting a serviceman in a radiative position, they should be worried about what kind of things are happening to their children because they're going to have children.
[0:40:45 - 0:40:59] ▶
You know, and that's, it's mind-blowing to me that somebody would try to hide this and not counsel the serviceman as to the dangers not only into themselves but also to the children.
[0:40:59 - 0:41:14] ▶
So, Professor, clearly there is an allegation that I personally find highly confronting and incredible at the heart of the claims being made by Jake and his colleagues.
[0:41:14 - 0:41:29] ▶
The allegation is that the United States government is secretly colluding with private corporations using what are called public operators, people with purported psychic abilities.
[0:41:29 - 0:41:45] ▶
What do you think of these allegations?
[0:41:45 - 0:41:48] ▶
Well, if they're true, it's probably one of the most extraordinary things I've ever heard. I don't know anything other than what I heard sitting across the table from the individual, individual's, claiming to be involved in this process and claiming what their history has been with the US government going back to their childhood.
[0:41:48 - 0:42:13] ▶
I mean, it's just, I don't know what to think, it's extraordinary. I mean, the only place I can relate it to my own work is where I've been looking at the caught at containment and the connections there where we did see in, let's call them, high functioning individuals, mostly very intelligent individuals, that this was the heart of where intuition happens.
[0:42:13 - 0:42:40] ▶
And we came to that conclusion independently of what was happening in the rest of the world where simultaneous analyses by mainstream scientists had come to the conclusion that we did that day because of the work that we were doing with those patients that this is the area where intuition happens.
[0:42:40 - 0:43:01] ▶
Well, what's another word for remote viewing or clairvoyance or whatever you want to call it in a purely scientific sense, somebody with darn good intuition?
[0:43:01 - 0:43:13] ▶
So as I've said before, if you wanted to know where such an ability might exist, might allege to be existing, that would be the heart of it in the caught at containment.
[0:43:13 - 0:43:25] ▶
And what we found, found interestingly is that people with who had claimed high function in remote viewing were at the highest of the list of those who had this connectivity pattern.
[0:43:25 - 0:43:41] ▶
So there's something interesting there. Again, I don't have a conclusion as to what it is, but there's enough data there for me to say it's well worth looking into and how could we perhaps turn this function on?
[0:43:41 - 0:43:55] ▶
Wouldn't you like to be able to predict which way the dice might roll?
[0:43:55 - 0:43:59] ▶
And the fascinating thing to me is that whilst you have one section of the US military denying that there is such a thing as psychic phenomena and telepathy,
[0:43:59 - 0:44:09] ▶
it's the CIA's own records that there's been a continuing investigation into the phenomenon since the 1970s Stargate program that Hal put off played a role in SRI.
[0:44:09 - 0:44:23] ▶
They've never really stopped investigating the phenomenon of alleged psychic behaviour.
[0:44:23 - 0:44:29] ▶
Well, it continued into the 80s and 90s in military programs that were eventually at one point called the Spidey Sense program.
[0:44:29 - 0:44:45] ▶
And what they were doing was they were identifying people in squads who the rest of the squad member said, hey, when Joe says don't go that way, we should go that way, the people that they trusted.
[0:44:45 - 0:44:59] ▶
Now maybe they were picking up something, I mean, a skeptic, and I'm a skeptic.
[0:44:59 - 0:45:05] ▶
They pick up something in the atmosphere that says don't go that way, just it feels wrong and we go this way.
[0:45:05 - 0:45:13] ▶
So people who are survival, survivalists by virtue of just good guesses.
[0:45:13 - 0:45:19] ▶
But there's something to be said for the primate that knows not to go down this path because there's a jaguar down that path and you go down this path because it's safe.
[0:45:19 - 0:45:32] ▶
And you pick up something else that is in the ether. And by that I mean something that isn't what you would call a natural electromagnetic interaction.
[0:45:32 - 0:45:43] ▶
But there might be something else going on at another level that the human brain is capable of understanding and manifesting into thought.
[0:45:43 - 0:45:51] ▶
I'm perfectly fine with that until you can take it off the table as an option to say that all interactions are electromagnetic.
[0:45:51 - 0:46:00] ▶
And if you're going to say that, then it's a possibility.
[0:46:00 - 0:46:05] ▶
I mean, we don't know how two objects at a distance in quantum interaction somehow communicate.
[0:46:05 - 0:46:14] ▶
And that puzzles the world's best physicists to this day.
[0:46:14 - 0:46:19] ▶
And they call it quantum non-locality. What the heck does that mean?
[0:46:19 - 0:46:24] ▶
There's not a lot of stuff, but what it means is as far as most people are concerned, it's some form of interaction at a distance without electromagnetic interaction.
[0:46:24 - 0:46:34] ▶
So that's really all you're talking about when you say, psionics.
[0:46:34 - 0:46:38] ▶
So, you know, I don't know.
[0:46:38 - 0:46:42] ▶
I can imagine a lot of real world ways it could be done without, you know, being dependent upon something that other people would call, Wu or magic.
[0:46:42 - 0:46:53] ▶
I'm perfectly fine with something, let's call it psionics, something side-based that is just a form of communication and physics that we don't quite yet understand.
[0:46:53 - 0:47:05] ▶
Maybe there's a way to interact with quantum interaction at a distance that somebody else has mastered.
[0:47:05 - 0:47:13] ▶
And we haven't yet. But they're perfectly able to either use it to transmit or receive.
[0:47:13 - 0:47:19] ▶
There is an incoming, isn't there, professor, for what has been done inside what we loosely call the program.
[0:47:19 - 0:47:29] ▶
There are people who are going to have to be held to account for their decisions and their actions.
[0:47:29 - 0:47:36] ▶
I hope so. Perhaps the new administration incoming will feel that there's a level of transparency that can be brought to this issue in a way that prior administrations couldn't.
[0:47:36 - 0:47:50] ▶
I've certainly heard a lot of rumors and talk about it from the incoming members of the new administration.
[0:47:50 - 0:47:58] ▶
So I'm fully supportive of that if they decide to do so.
[0:47:58 - 0:48:04] ▶
I'd like to go back to my day job. I'd like to go back to my day job. You know, my day job is cancer research.
[0:48:04 - 0:48:12] ▶
If there's nothing here, I'm pretty good at my job. Let me get back to it.
[0:48:12 - 0:48:17] ▶
Professor, I appreciate you are a top-level international scientist and you understandably will be skeptical and guarded in what you're prepared to say.
[0:48:17 - 0:48:28] ▶
But I've interviewed you previously and you've been very forthcoming about your belief that or your knowledge that there is indeed a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet.
[0:48:28 - 0:48:39] ▶
About here though, from Jake Barber and his colleagues is on another level entirely.
[0:48:39 - 0:48:45] ▶
For the first time, first hand witnesses to what we say is a retrieval program involving a non-human intelligence technology.
[0:48:45 - 0:48:57] ▶
Tell me what you think about the credibility of these witnesses and what are your impressions about the whole idea of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet.
[0:48:57 - 0:49:09] ▶
We still are in a situation where the military, the Pentagon, is flatly asserting that there is no evidence of any kind of extraterrestrial intelligence engaging with this planet.
[0:49:09 - 0:49:22] ▶
So everybody that I've interacted with around this particular incident has been, they're either the best actors in the world and are all deserving of an Oscar next year.
[0:49:22 - 0:49:34] ▶
Or what they're telling me is the truth. I'm a good read of body language and personalities and what I saw the way in which they acted.
[0:49:34 - 0:49:44] ▶
They didn't just act as people as a part in a play. They acted in a way that showed that they'd done this before.
[0:49:44 - 0:49:54] ▶
And so that told me that they knew what they were doing. They weren't doing this for the first time.
[0:49:54 - 0:49:59] ▶
They don't bring a Stanford professor to a secure site to witness this so that there wasn't all of this effort put into it just for me.
[0:49:59 - 0:50:14] ▶
I was just there for observation. There's no reason to expect that anything that they were doing was a liar or put on for show.
[0:50:14 - 0:50:26] ▶
It just lends further support to things that I've already said before. That the chance that all of this is by chance or is just a whole bunch of mistakes is diminishingly small.
[0:50:26 - 0:50:40] ▶
It's to the point now where it's up to the true skeptics to come forward and say what are the standards that you're going to require for there to be proof.
[0:50:40 - 0:50:50] ▶
Does an alien or an extraterrestrial or non-human intelligence have to walk out on stage and shake your hands? Is that your standard of proof?
[0:50:50 - 0:50:58] ▶
Or is your standard of proof that of a scientist which says I see preliminary data here and something which is even more than preliminary data that says hey, it's time to put together a public response and a public program that allows the public to know what the data is rather than putting all of this in the data.
[0:50:58 - 0:51:19] ▶
And putting all the money into things that are going on clearly behind the scenes that you're just going to basically black out when any reports are being provided. I think those days are over.
[0:51:19 - 0:51:31] ▶
Can I get a definitive statement from you, Gary, on what you think you know about the existence of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet?
[0:51:31 - 0:51:41] ▶
My personal experience both with people and the things that I've seen is that there's something here.
[0:51:41 - 0:51:48] ▶
My problem is, again, as a scientist, that's my set of anecdotes. I need to get it into a form that I can hand to another scientist who sits in the office next to me and says here's the data that you can use.
[0:51:48 - 0:52:04] ▶
There's so much data out there already that it's how do I compile a minimum list so that I can get a colleague's attention for the five minutes required to get them to say either it should be something that they follow up on or they can still go back to their day job.
[0:52:04 - 0:52:23] ▶
I mean, you're trying to get me to say something that I just am not going to go over that line because if I don't maintain a certain level of skepticism, I just lose the credibility that I require for my scientific colleagues to feel that I'm a neutral observer.
[0:52:23 - 0:52:49] ▶
I thank you for what you did give me, Professor. Thank you so much.
[0:52:49 - 0:52:54] ▶
Thanks for watching. Go to joinnn.com to find news nation on your television provider. And please don't forget to click that red subscribe button to ensure you get more of news nations, unbiased and fact driven news coverage.
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