622 segments
I met with the head of Arrow just a couple of weeks ago,
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John Koskowski and another gentleman with Air Force Office Special Investigations.
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I think his name was Kevin Ryan, but in any case,
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it was a little spooky being in a skiff with these guys.
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But at the end of the day, I was speaking to them.
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I mean, they're real people and they,
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I got the impression that they were just as curious as anybody else.
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James, your two most recent films were the phenomenon from 2020 and
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moment of contact from 2022. But I want to know what's your motivation for having
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created your newest film, The Program, that will premiere in three days.
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I think it's a natural progression. It's been kind of a personal journey. I just happened to
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share it with the general public because I document my research investigations and things of
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that nature. When I finished the phenomenon back in the end of 2020,
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we touched on potential crash retrieval stuff. We touched on Roswell,
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Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid, one of the most profound statements that I think he made was
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at what's been released, is merely in terms of evidence, is merely the tip of the iceberg.
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That was a huge statement at the time. I remember just being flabbergasted by him,
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saying that because we've all suspected that, obviously, within the UFO community.
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But to have the former Senate Majority Leader confirm that on camera was a jaw dropper.
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Then went to Kapaz on, because naturally I would have gone from the phenomenon probably directly
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to the program. I think there's more of a connection there. But I had edited out one of the
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cases that I was going to include in the phenomenon. That is the alleged UFO crash in
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Virginia, Brazil in 1996. I hit the pause button. I went back to Brazil. I'd been investigating
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that case on and off for over 12 years. Established some good relations. I was working with a guy,
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Marco. He shot that film, put that out. People were saying, are you sure this is the movie that you
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want to put out? You've got a great relationship with some senators and people within the intel
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community. Now you're reporting on live aliens walking through the town of Brazil. This is a little
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nuts. I opted to stick to my guns and put that film out. I'm not sure if people were ready for it.
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Maybe they were. Maybe they weren't. While I was making that movie, there was a lot of stuff going
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on in Washington, DC. Legislation being passed in the first congressional hearings on UFOs.
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Little did I realize when we were promoting the moment of contact that just a few months later,
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there was going to be an open congressional hearing with a high level intelligence officer claiming
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that there's a crash retrieval program which directly correlated to the film. I just done
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moment of contact about a crash retrieval that the Americans were involved with. The program is
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kind of a natural progression of my personal investigations into this into the phenomenon.
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Yeah, I would argue that I would argue that you're doing the government a favor by helping to
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acclimate humanity to the reality of this phenomenon. You recently stated that you've been told,
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you've heard from inside, you've been told by insiders that the truth about UFOs should come out by
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2030. That's that I was told. I obviously I can't put money on that, but I was told that from
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people that I trust that the plan is to trickle this out and have some level of full disclosure by 2030.
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Awesome. Again, I hate putting dates on things, but that was told with me and I'm sharing it.
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I trust the people that shared that with me. Could we be wrong? Yes, we could be wrong.
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Maybe it'll come out sooner. Who knows? Yeah, what was the progress we're making? You never know.
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If the US government has been lying about our place in the universe for 80 plus years, how do they
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regain the people's trust after the truth finally comes out in a way that it's no longer a debate?
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We know we're not alone. We know there's a non-human intelligence here and we also it's
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as clear as day that that interest within the US government have been engaging in disinformation
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campaigns for decades. How does the US government come back from that? Yeah, it's tough. There's
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definitely a credibility issue there. There's no doubt about it. But we have to remind ourselves
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that people are people. I met with the head of Arrow just a couple of weeks ago, John Kosklauski
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and another gentleman with Air Force Office Special Investigations. I think his name was Kevin Ryan.
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But in any case, it was a little spooky being in a skiff with these guys.
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But at the end of the day, I was speaking to them. They're real people.
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I got the impression that they were just as curious as anybody else and getting to the bottom of it.
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And John, actually, the new head of Arrow that admitted to me because I was asking him,
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what's the plan? I think ultimately you're going to realize that a certain percentage of this
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is definitely a originated from a non-human intelligence. What's the plan to tell the public how
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is it going to go about? And he goes, you know, denying any of that. He just goes, look man, I can't
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part my own hair without approval from the DOD. I thought that was kind of interesting. So
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the way that it's currently structured could be slightly problematic in terms of full transparency
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on what they're uncovering. Well, I hope John Kosklauski is better than Dr. Sean Karpatrick.
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Because Karpatrick, in my opinion, was not a very good head of Arrow. I think Elizondo recently came
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out with a statement regarding Glenn Gaffney who at one time, he had a long career with the CIA
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at one time. He was the head of the directorate for science and technology. And it's been reported,
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I think even by Elizondo, that he's a major gatekeeper for the deep legacy program. And it's been
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reported that Glenn Gaffney was one of the secret advisors for Dr. Sean Karpatrick. When you
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were talking to John Kosklauski, did you happen to talk about the gimbal or go fast event? Because
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he recently spoke about the go fast event in the, I think it was November 19th, was it,
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where there was another hearing with... Yeah, it's a good Gillabrand. Yeah, it's Gillabrand. And
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he basically gave the impression that the go fast event was solved. But then
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a former Lieutenant Ryan Graves spoke up about it and said, why did you, Mr. Kosklauski, not actually
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talk with the pilot who took the footage and that it actually encompassed four objects
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in a formation line of breast. Why did Kosklauski not go into that? He's the head of Arrow. He
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should have known about it. Well, I think the acronym speaks volumes. All domain anomalous
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resolution office. Good luck with the resolution part. So their task to provide probably a
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conventional explanation is as best they can. I remember actually one of the things I did talk to
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them about is the tick-tack. Hey, did you guys figure out what that thing was? Well, you know,
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this... I was like, did you? No. I think that's like, that's a really tricky case because remember,
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the question isn't can all UFOs, you know, be extraterrestrial. Is this like, are any of them
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non-human intelligence? That's the question. Only takes one.
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Did Kosklauski ask you? Did he request for you to have a conversation with him in a
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skip? How did that work out? You know, there's... I'm just trying to think what I can... So,
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there's a joint effort currently taking place on going after some footage that I have located,
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and I've located it for 12 years. And the individual who has the footage is like,
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let me back up. How much time do we have? As much as you want, but officially about 54 minutes.
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Okay, yeah, we got time. Is this going to be a 15 minute job that I would old this time?
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At least an hour if you can do it. Well, they've got my schedule, so whatever, yeah. So... Okay.
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So, I had started... During my investigation of Sakura New Mexico, that landing case,
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one of the best close encounters of the third kind, say, documented close accounts of the third
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kind. In my opinion, in US history, I was doing a deep dive into that case over a five-year period
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for the phenomenon. I came upon an article by Keral, Korol Lorenzen, the UFO bulletin that was like
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probably in 1964, right around the time of Sakura would be my guess. And I'm about a landing at
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Hall of the Air Force patient. I was like, oh, wow, landing here? I don't know. It's like, what's
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the distance between here and... Boy, is this stone... Is this stone threw away as the crow flies?
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I was thinking, hi, maybe that landing case kind of did happen. It led me to a couple of people
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Bob, excuse me, Robert M. Nigger and this guy, Alan Sandler, who made a documentary called
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UFO's Past, Present, and Future. And so I started kind of looking into that. It was a side project
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from looking into Sakura, but it really caught my eye. And I started kind of looking into that. And I
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ultimately met with M. Nigger and Alan Sandler. And I found out that they had done this documentary,
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UFO's Past, Present, and Future. And within that documentary, they had unprecedented access,
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military bases, and all these people participating. It was really quite astonishing back in 1972,
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1974. And they stay in the film. What happens if this landing happened, or maybe it already happened,
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or maybe perhaps it's going to be an event that happens in the near future? And then they show
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illustrations of a UFO landing at Hall of the Air Force base. So anyway, I saw this kind of go
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after trying to figure out if this really happened or not. And this is all going on over a several
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year period. And I find out that Alan Sandler, M. Nigger's, Robert M. Nigger's production partner,
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was shown the landing footage at Hall of the Air Force base. And it was quite impressive. And I was
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like, wow, this is real. We were going to be giving the footage. It was going to be using the movie
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in the last minute they decided not. Then I found out that they were giving some footage, allegedly.
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I talked to Robert M. Nigger about it. And Angela Joyner had told me about it. They were given footage
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of an Atlas rocket that was launched. And I think it was February of 1964. And it shows quite
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like similar to what Robert Jacobs had described of an Atlas rocket traveling at eight or 10,000
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miles an hour. And then a UFO comes in and kind of circles and fires it a beam of light at it. Now,
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this particular footage doesn't have the UFO shooting beams of light the way Robert Jacobs
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described. This was two or three UFOs that circled the tip like they were checking it out. And he said
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it was taken from two different angles. It was labeled top secret. And it was it was one camera angle
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kind of up close like zoomed in. And another one pulled slightly back. So it was two different
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camera angles, which allowed them to eliminate any possibility of lens flare and anything like that.
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Very impressive. And Alan was going to sell the footage to me for 25 grand. And again,
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this is going on for years because when I learn about possible UFO footage, I never give up going
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after it. This was going on for years. So he says, I think it was 25,000 bucks. And I remember at
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the time trying to raise the money. And one of the individuals that I was asking for to put up this
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money was like, yeah, well, let's see the footage is like, yeah, well, that's not how it works. He's
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basically saying we got to put the money into an escrow account. They'll invite us to his house.
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He'll show us the footage. If it's not everything, he says it is, then, you know, we get our money back
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and the story. Thank you very much. Goodbye. So I find to get the money together.
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And the last minute Alan Sandler backs out. And he says, I can't do it. My lawyer was like,
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what are you doing? That's government property. And you're a wealthy man. You're retired. You're
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doing fine. Why you put your neck out? Why are you risking doing this? And you can't sell it. So
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I was like, well, you promised me, you know, and, and, um, it, no, he said no. So I, I hammered him for
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quite a long time years. And, uh, finally, I was like, well, if it's government property and
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you're worried about that, then why don't you give it back to the government? So I
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contacted some people on the inside and I said, hey, I know about some footage. And they're like,
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oh, so, so they reached out down on Sandler. I have a, I have a message over. I received the
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Alan's like, uh, James, I just had some government officials call me. And they're, uh, they want
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to know about this footage that I may or may not have. And I was like, oh, yeah, the one that you have.
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And so, so I'm working with people to go after this footage. And, uh, now Alan is actively looking for,
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you know, because he says it's, I think he said, he said it was on film that he has to have a
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transfer to think he did. I think it was on a film reel that he has to have transferred. I believe
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it. He said it was 16, 16 millimeter. And, um, so he's currently actively looking. And so
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they wanted help corn after this footage. And I said, all right, well, if I help you guys,
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you have to make me a promise to get our hands on it that I get a copy, you get a copy. This is not
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going to disappear as it's done so many times in the past. And they promised me we will not make
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it disappear. So this is why I was invited in to discuss this. And they also had some footage they
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wanted to show me of a of a launch at at at at at at Vanneberg Air Force Base. I think it was like
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a month later or different different time frame or I don't know weeks later. I can't remember.
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But it was nowhere near the resolution that Bob Jake has had described. And then I said, don't put
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this out. This is garbage. So, um, anyway, that's kind of like the backstory on on why I went out
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there. Um, and got invited to go in there and meet with these guys. But yeah, so I did say to them,
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you know, you guys got a, uh, I said, you got to throw us a bone here, man. You can't just keep
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categorically lying, pulling a Sean Kirkpatrick, you know, we're not going anywhere. This is not
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going to go away. And so anyway, my point, I guess my point of sharing that is that these are real
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people like people are people like it's so easy for us to just throw everybody into the same ban of,
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you know, all the government is as a bunch of lying bastards and you know, yeah, they have not been
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honest with us about this. Some people have, if you look back dating all the way back to
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Roscoe Helen Conner, when did he write that former head of the CIA was at 61 or was that late 50s,
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already 60s in the New York Times talking about it, you know, Kehoe, you know, Heineck over the years,
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people have come forward with the guy that wrote the book that was part of a project blue book
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during the 1952 two consecutive weekends over Washington DC. He wrote a book about it,
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Rupert. Remember Rupert? So I guess my point is, you know, look, yeah, we have been lied to,
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no question about it, but there have been good people within on the inside that have been trying
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to tell us the truth for a while, they've just been drowned out. Well, my concern with Arrow is,
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are they actually trying to promote transparency or are they just trying to delay the inevitable
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and give the impression that they're pursuing transparency when really they're just trying to
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give a false impression about UFOs that they don't really know what's going on, we're not sure
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what they are, we're not sure where they're coming from. Meanwhile, there's probably a crash
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retrieval program. They probably have reams of smoking gun, video footage, radar data, satellite
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imagery. So I'm a little paranoid about Arrow. I don't know if they're really trying to help,
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but I'd love to be proven wrong. And that would give me to Chris Melon. I agree. You know,
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I said it to their faces. I literally said to the new head, you got, you guys got to throw us
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a bone man, you can't just keep lying. The last guy was terrible. Yep. And I told you what he said,
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and he said, you can say that publicly, you can say you met with me and you can say that publicly,
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which means to me, he's trying to say, look, and some indications by hands are tied. I can't part
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my hair without the DOD approving. Look, you know, my gut feeling about Koslowski, he seems like
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a good dude. So maybe, you know, it's not in, maybe it's not really in his hands. Transparency's not
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in his hands. He can only do what the DOD will allow him to do. But I feel like the more the DOD
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delays in transparency, the more the worse disclosure and the more catastrophic disclosure is going
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to be. So I don't know why they're setting up. Like if they, if they're really obsessed with
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national security, you would think they would want to look good amongst the American public,
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instead of constantly delaying transparency, which only makes them end up looking worse, and it's
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only going to lead to more backlash. So I'm just, I'm baffled by their approach to this whole
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thing. It's like, they think they're just going to delay it to the last microsecond. Like, that just
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seems like a really bad strategy. I, hey, look, I agree. You know, but again, he said that to me for
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reason. And he said, literally, I didn't ask, hey, can I go public with this? He said, and you can
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share that. So maybe what he was trying to tell the general public is despite what my sentiments
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are about this and what I uncover, I can't disclose anything without the approval of the DOD,
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which is part of the executive branch, right? So someone is going to have to wave the magic wand
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and relieve these individuals of their security clearances and restrictions, because it's
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incredibly frustrating. I mean, people watch, you know, the program and they go, got all these people
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sitting there saying they can't talk without fear of going to prison. It's like, that's real.
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People are legitimately freaked out. They violate their national security oaths. I don't even think
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there's due process. I think they just go right behind bars. It's real people. I have a message for
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the DOD right now. DOD Department of Defense appreciate your work. Appreciate you keeping me safe,
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keeping the American public safe. It's a great sacrifice. But if you're whole, if your whole premise
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is national security and advancing the interests of America, then why are you delaying disclosure
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when Congress is begging you to tell the truth, the American public is begging you to tell the truth.
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Are you just going to wait till the last moment so that when the truth finally comes out, maybe it
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comes from the phenomenon itself, maybe China or Russia discloses first or maybe you're at some
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point, you're so backed into the corner, you have to tell the truth. Isn't that going to deteriorate
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national security? Because you're going to cause the public to have much less trust in you
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than if you would actually work to just tell the truth and stop delaying it. But I'll leave it at
[0:19:50 - 0:19:54] ▶
that. James, tell me about satellite UAP imagery because I know Chris Mellon was in your movie and
[0:19:54 - 0:20:00] ▶
he actually told you about satellite UAP imagery that he saw. You know, he wouldn't give me the
[0:20:00 - 0:20:07] ▶
specifics, but there were a number of people that it's like you kind of look in their eyes and
[0:20:07 - 0:20:15] ▶
it's more what they don't say than what they say. It's like, you know, how good is it? You know,
[0:20:15 - 0:20:21] ▶
you know, because it's classified. I mean, one of the only reasons why Christopher Mellon even
[0:20:23 - 0:20:29] ▶
talked about it on cameras because Ratcliffe talked about it on Fox News and said, yeah.
[0:20:29 - 0:20:36] ▶
And revealed that information. So, I mean, look, it's frustrating. Look, we all want to see
[0:20:37 - 0:20:44] ▶
more happen sooner, but I really need to remind, you know, look, I've been at this 30 years,
[0:20:44 - 0:20:50] ▶
remind people how far we've come since 2017. Shoot. How far we've come since 2020? Right? I mean,
[0:20:51 - 0:21:00] ▶
we've had three congressional hearings in the last couple of years. That's kind of a big deal.
[0:21:00 - 0:21:05] ▶
We've had two Intel folks testify under oath that there's a crash retrieval program,
[0:21:05 - 0:21:11] ▶
that the government has defended proof that we're not alone in the universe, right?
[0:21:12 - 0:21:15] ▶
Let's not forget how far we've come and the momentum that we've gathered. And I think it's,
[0:21:17 - 0:21:22] ▶
I'm, hey, look, I'm working, I'm working overtime. I've never worked so hard ever. I put this
[0:21:22 - 0:21:29] ▶
documentary out in record time. I worked around the clock. I was pulling 17-hour days, seven days
[0:21:29 - 0:21:34] ▶
a week. I was working under horrible conditions because my distribution company cut off all my
[0:21:34 - 0:21:40] ▶
funding. Rob me blind. So I was battling that. And yet I pushed really, really hard and really
[0:21:40 - 0:21:48] ▶
quickly because this information is relevant, current, and needs to be, and needs to be told.
[0:21:48 - 0:21:53] ▶
So, so I can understand, you know, the whole classification of satellite imagery, but why hasn't
[0:21:54 - 0:21:59] ▶
Congress seen the satellite imagery? Because I remember with the July 26th UFO hearing,
[0:21:59 - 0:22:03] ▶
where David Grush testified under oath, he talked about satellite imagery. He's seen that with
[0:22:03 - 0:22:08] ▶
a physics degree, he can't explain. And he doesn't, he said, he said explicitly, as I recall,
[0:22:08 - 0:22:13] ▶
he doesn't understand why this hasn't been shown to Congress. I mean, Congress has the same security
[0:22:13 - 0:22:17] ▶
clearances that people like Melon has. So why is Congress not being shown this satellite imagery?
[0:22:17 - 0:22:22] ▶
You know, I don't know, if they, I don't know specifically satellite imagery, but I know for
[0:22:23 - 0:22:28] ▶
a fact that a number of Congress folks have seen better imagery. I talked to Bridget about it.
[0:22:28 - 0:22:35] ▶
I know that's been mentioned by some other folks that have seen it and they're very tight-lipped
[0:22:35 - 0:22:40] ▶
about revealing the details on it. But, but I know that I, no question in my mind that,
[0:22:41 - 0:22:47] ▶
that some of them have seen some of the more compelling photographic evidence.
[0:22:47 - 0:22:51] ▶
Yeah. Okay, that's good to hear. Bershatt stated in your film that the only way we're going to get
[0:22:52 - 0:22:57] ▶
to the truth is if a commander in chief takes the lid off. Do you think Trump will do this,
[0:22:57 - 0:23:02] ▶
considering his platform to drain the swamp? And the fact that his cabinet is highly supportive
[0:23:03 - 0:23:07] ▶
of UFO transparency? I think it's more likely than any other administration ever
[0:23:07 - 0:23:12] ▶
that he would, that would be the one to do it. But we'll see. I mean, like one of the,
[0:23:13 - 0:23:17] ▶
one of the things that I was a little discouraged by is that this all came out during his presidency,
[0:23:17 - 0:23:26] ▶
because what was it? Well, let's see, December of 2017, had he taken office then he had, right?
[0:23:27 - 0:23:35] ▶
I'm not sure to be honest. It was, it came out at the end of 2017. So, during,
[0:23:35 - 0:23:42] ▶
throughout his administration, and I was told that he was debriefed at a certain level,
[0:23:42 - 0:23:46] ▶
he didn't say much about it during those four years that he was in office, not that I can recall.
[0:23:47 - 0:23:54] ▶
Maybe things are going to be different this time. I'm very encouraged by Rubio and
[0:23:55 - 0:23:59] ▶
Ratcliffe, no question about that. And I've been told that Berchette, Representative Berchette,
[0:23:59 - 0:24:04] ▶
has been talking with the, you know, President-elect, and that he's optimistic that he's going to
[0:24:04 - 0:24:12] ▶
really push for transparency on that. I'd like to know better how things work. Like, could the
[0:24:12 - 0:24:17] ▶
President of the United States waive the magic wand and provide immunity to these whistleblowers?
[0:24:17 - 0:24:22] ▶
Could he do that? My gut tells me, yes. What are they, what are they going to do to him?
[0:24:22 - 0:24:28] ▶
Put throw them in jail? Well, no, but I'm saying could, could, could the President
[0:24:28 - 0:24:33] ▶
provide some level of immunity to the first day? Oh, I could, you're saying, yeah.
[0:24:33 - 0:24:37] ▶
They're coming forward, right, right, right. Because the repercussions are very real. I mean,
[0:24:37 - 0:24:41] ▶
I've met with some individuals that are, they're terrified not just for their careers, but their lives.
[0:24:41 - 0:24:46] ▶
I mean, they're really legitimately scared, you know, and so I'd have to look, I'm going to dig
[0:24:47 - 0:24:55] ▶
into that a little more, but my understanding is that the President could, but I don't know for sure.
[0:24:55 - 0:25:01] ▶
I'd have to talk to somebody on the inside to really clarify that to me.
[0:25:01 - 0:25:07] ▶
Well, when you figure that out, let's hold Trump to that because if, you know, I mean, I'm not
[0:25:07 - 0:25:13] ▶
going to make this political. I don't talk discussed politics, but when Trump's in office, he's in
[0:25:13 - 0:25:19] ▶
office, and I think the public should hold him to giving immunity to whistleblowers so that we
[0:25:19 - 0:25:24] ▶
can end the cover up a long time congressional staffer. I think he was in it for 30 plus years.
[0:25:24 - 0:25:29] ▶
Kirk McConnell in your film. Do you think 37 years 37 years and he was in your film. So,
[0:25:29 - 0:25:35] ▶
guys, check out James Fox's film that's going to be going live in three days. But do you think
[0:25:35 - 0:25:40] ▶
Kirk McConnell has had direct evidence, has seen direct evidence of nonhuman intelligence?
[0:25:40 - 0:25:45] ▶
It's hard to say, you know, I got to be careful what I say about him, but I definitely,
[0:25:46 - 0:25:52] ▶
I think one of the things he reveals in the film is that that they've met with firsthand,
[0:25:52 - 0:25:57] ▶
firsthand witnesses, part of the program.
[0:25:57 - 0:26:00] ▶
Awesome. No question about that. He confirms that. Okay. And Rubio has as well.
[0:26:02 - 0:26:06] ▶
Yeah, I've heard that Rubio has, obviously, the gang of eight. I don't know how many of them.
[0:26:07 - 0:26:12] ▶
Yeah, that they Rubio, no question. It's really funny actually. Did you watch the program, right?
[0:26:14 - 0:26:20] ▶
Oh, yeah, twice. Okay. So you're referring to Rubio's being interviewed on 60 minutes.
[0:26:20 - 0:26:24] ▶
He said, you know, like, could be a, you know, a simple answer or maybe it's not a simple answer.
[0:26:25 - 0:26:30] ▶
Yeah. Good way of putting it.
[0:26:30 - 0:26:33] ▶
That was really good. Or not.
[0:26:33 - 0:26:36] ▶
But really complicated, you know, nothing that I'd never really done before
[0:26:38 - 0:26:42] ▶
is I explored. I'm looking on my whiteboard here. I always map out my films on a big whiteboard.
[0:26:44 - 0:26:50] ▶
And I do act one, act two, act three. And act three of the film is the politics of disclosure.
[0:26:50 - 0:26:56] ▶
Right. Now, you probably given this a lot more thought than I have. But I never really thought about
[0:26:56 - 0:27:01] ▶
the complexities of disclosing what the government's known, what they don't know. And how that could
[0:27:01 - 0:27:07] ▶
affect world markets and financial institutions and religious institutions and all these other
[0:27:07 - 0:27:13] ▶
things that go on. But we explored that a little bit in the program. And I thought it was really,
[0:27:13 - 0:27:18] ▶
a lot of people have been really particularly people that are not that familiar with the topic.
[0:27:18 - 0:27:24] ▶
To, you know, to explore some of the ramifications, some of the, some of the, it's a much more complex
[0:27:24 - 0:27:31] ▶
issue than just like, hey, let's have more transparency. Tell us the truth, you know, kind of thing.
[0:27:31 - 0:27:36] ▶
There are a number of things that need to happen before that takes place. And they've done, you
[0:27:36 - 0:27:42] ▶
know, research about that. I think how put off and was involved with a project that was basically
[0:27:42 - 0:27:50] ▶
talking about the pros and cons of, and how, how, how one goes about doing it.
[0:27:51 - 0:27:55] ▶
Yeah. How put up brought something up in your film that David Grush has also brought up that if,
[0:27:55 - 0:28:00] ▶
if we get disclosure, some of these aerospace companies may want to sue that did not, we're never
[0:28:00 - 0:28:05] ▶
given any of these exotic non-human intelligence materials. They may want to sue the US government
[0:28:05 - 0:28:11] ▶
for, for giving an advantage to their competition. And they may also want to sue their competition
[0:28:11 - 0:28:16] ▶
because they're competition like Lockheed, for example, broke the law by taking that non-human
[0:28:16 - 0:28:21] ▶
intelligence material. So that could be like a billions of dollars of lawsuits. So it's way more
[0:28:21 - 0:28:27] ▶
complicated than people consider how complicated I never, ever thought of that. I personally never
[0:28:27 - 0:28:34] ▶
thought of that. Yeah. Anti-trust laws. Yeah. It's like, wait a minute, you're going to give these
[0:28:34 - 0:28:38] ▶
guys the, our competitors, you're going to get them the leading edge and give them this technology.
[0:28:38 - 0:28:42] ▶
And you're not going to give it to other person. It's like, you know, wow, that's, that's a very
[0:28:42 - 0:28:48] ▶
terrestrial issue. Yeah. I know. It's crazy, right? A lot of those things, I think it's important.
[0:28:48 - 0:28:57] ▶
I think it's very important to, to talk about that. Absolutely. And to acknowledge that because
[0:28:57 - 0:29:02] ▶
it's real. I mean, I'm sure that's a big reason like the CIA doesn't want to disclose because
[0:29:02 - 0:29:07] ▶
they don't want to deal with all this fallout. It's just endless. I want to know as someone who's
[0:29:07 - 0:29:13] ▶
done deep dives into the phenomenon, what were some of your favorite scenes in the film? And
[0:29:13 - 0:29:20] ▶
did you learn anything new from the phenomenon? I'm so sorry about the phenomenon in the program.
[0:29:20 - 0:29:27] ▶
Well, you know, I, yeah, I did. I mean, I'm not, I'm honestly not that knowledgeable, but that
[0:29:28 - 0:29:34] ▶
video footage that you released of a nellis range. Yes. I wasn't really much, much aware of that.
[0:29:34 - 0:29:40] ▶
Yeah. What is the, what is the provenance of that? And how reliable is that footage? And that
[0:29:40 - 0:29:44] ▶
relate, doesn't that relate to Jason Sands? Wasn't that the craft that allegedly landed in the,
[0:29:44 - 0:29:50] ▶
can you go, can you go into that? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. You know, I think I had heard about that
[0:29:51 - 0:29:58] ▶
in the 90s when I started doing a film on this topic. And there were some deep dives that
[0:29:58 - 0:30:03] ▶
had gone into it. You know, you got voices. And that leaked out in the 90s right after that happened.
[0:30:03 - 0:30:08] ▶
I don't know exactly what year it could have been. It happened in 94. I don't know if it leaked out in
[0:30:08 - 0:30:13] ▶
95 or a little bit later, but definitely in the 90s. And, you know, you got all the voices of people
[0:30:13 - 0:30:20] ▶
talking about it. And that's real. No, there's no question that's a real nellis footage on the range,
[0:30:20 - 0:30:25] ▶
right? It's never, it's never been debunked all these years later. It looks legitimate to me.
[0:30:25 - 0:30:29] ▶
It looks legitimate to me. Yeah, totally. And I personally was, I had no idea about this alleged
[0:30:29 - 0:30:37] ▶
encounter that happened three days later, four days later on the base because Mr. Sands had never
[0:30:37 - 0:30:43] ▶
come forward public about that case. And quite honestly, you know, Jason Sands wasn't going to come
[0:30:43 - 0:30:50] ▶
forward publicly at all. He was going to disguise his identity. He hadn't done that dopser process.
[0:30:50 - 0:30:55] ▶
And I keep forgetting what the acronym is for dopser, but it's basically pre publication, right?
[0:30:55 - 0:31:00] ▶
For any people that have classifications to get approval to go public with whatever and things get
[0:31:00 - 0:31:06] ▶
to some things get approved and others don't. But I and I've talked about this in the last
[0:31:06 - 0:31:11] ▶
couple of days. I accidentally revealed his identity through a photograph that I posted on X.
[0:31:11 - 0:31:17] ▶
And it had a clipboard with his name on it off in the distance. And if you zoomed in, you can see it.
[0:31:18 - 0:31:22] ▶
And that was my bad, because I was fully responsible for that. And I think that it created a lot of
[0:31:22 - 0:31:28] ▶
trouble for Mr. Sands. And I felt terrible about it. And I still feel terrible about it.
[0:31:28 - 0:31:34] ▶
But it did cause him to go through the dopser process and get authorization to discuss
[0:31:34 - 0:31:41] ▶
some of the things that he discussed in the film. So we ended up being able to do a full reveal
[0:31:42 - 0:31:48] ▶
on his identity, include all of his military records and photographic photographs of him in
[0:31:48 - 0:31:53] ▶
uniform over the years. And I think it really kind of bolstered his story. We also have the names
[0:31:53 - 0:31:58] ▶
of the other people that were present first and last. They were also on duty. We have, so you
[0:31:59 - 0:32:06] ▶
corroborated it with, well, they didn't come public, but you know, we got in touch with one of
[0:32:06 - 0:32:11] ▶
them. And that individual through Jason Sands was really receptive to correspondence. And as soon as
[0:32:11 - 0:32:17] ▶
we bought up the encounter, boom, ghosted, no response at all. So then I dug, I threw some of my
[0:32:17 - 0:32:28] ▶
contacts. I found, oh, she said, we found the individual that did the debrief after the encounter.
[0:32:28 - 0:32:34] ▶
And that individual wouldn't even confirm or deny on or off the record. It was like, I'm aware
[0:32:35 - 0:32:41] ▶
of the incident and no comment period. I'm not going to deny it, you know, or what it was or what
[0:32:41 - 0:32:47] ▶
it wasn't. It was just nothing. And then I met with staff members privately in DC face to face.
[0:32:47 - 0:32:56] ▶
And they said, we have vetted Jason Sands. He is who he says he is. He was where he says he was.
[0:32:57 - 0:33:04] ▶
He's named specific programs that are highly classified. One individual even told me they got in
[0:33:04 - 0:33:09] ▶
trouble, even for asking about this name. And I know the name and I'm not going to say it
[0:33:09 - 0:33:14] ▶
of a program. And it's not immaculate constellation, it's up and else. And so at the end of the day,
[0:33:15 - 0:33:22] ▶
I as unbelievable as it comes across as being, I'm reporting on it because I believe Jason Sands.
[0:33:22 - 0:33:29] ▶
I've looked them in the eyes of hung out with them many, many times. I've seen as detailed military
[0:33:31 - 0:33:36] ▶
records. I have them. And I opted to report on it and hope in the hopes that other people come
[0:33:36 - 0:33:41] ▶
forward. It's quite similar to what we're dealing with the Calvine UFO case. So we've got the
[0:33:41 - 0:33:46] ▶
photograph. We've got the RAF press officer Craig Lindsay who interviewed the witnesses and did
[0:33:46 - 0:33:53] ▶
some analysis work and kept that print. Thank God. Thank you, Craig Lindsay and thank you, David Clark
[0:33:53 - 0:33:58] ▶
for that. We don't have that we have the co-worker in the kitchen, right? Who saw the men in black coming
[0:33:59 - 0:34:05] ▶
and intimidate the two witnesses. And then they vanished after a couple of weeks forever gone
[0:34:05 - 0:34:10] ▶
off the face of the earth. You know, we don't have them. But I'm reporting on the story. I'm putting
[0:34:11 - 0:34:15] ▶
it out there. I even mentioned that in the film because it's an ongoing investigation. And if they're
[0:34:15 - 0:34:21] ▶
out there, we still want them to come forward. And you know, that's still a piece of the puzzle that's
[0:34:21 - 0:34:27] ▶
missing. Same thing with the alleged encounter in Nell's test range. Look, maybe some government
[0:34:27 - 0:34:34] ▶
officials within Arrow or somewhere else are going to look into this case more so with the
[0:34:34 - 0:34:40] ▶
proper clearances and maybe the one cover more to it. But I think it's important to report on it.
[0:34:40 - 0:34:47] ▶
We're not going to find out anything more if we don't report on it. And people have been really
[0:34:48 - 0:34:52] ▶
hard on Jason Sands and I feel I feel terrible and it's primarily my fault that he went public
[0:34:52 - 0:34:57] ▶
the way he did because I exposed him. Yeah, you know, I was fascinated by the by your presentation
[0:34:57 - 0:35:06] ▶
of the two witnesses and from the Calvin incident how men and men and suits intimidated them and
[0:35:06 - 0:35:12] ▶
then poof, they're gone. And no one knows where they are. But this is a pattern that you see in
[0:35:12 - 0:35:17] ▶
UFO history. These threats, these like I understand where skeptics say like, well, we have no smoking
[0:35:17 - 0:35:23] ▶
gun evidence. So we're just not going to believe even how put off he reiterated that he's like,
[0:35:23 - 0:35:27] ▶
I understand it's science. Unless you have the proof, you, you, it's scientifically normal to
[0:35:27 - 0:35:34] ▶
be skeptical. But what you can't be skeptical about, what you cannot be skeptical about in my
[0:35:34 - 0:35:38] ▶
opinion is all the threats that happen. They've happened to grudge. They happen to those two
[0:35:38 - 0:35:42] ▶
witnesses from the Calvin event. They were they're not on the face of the earth. No one knows where
[0:35:42 - 0:35:48] ▶
they are. And even from your moment of contact film, the witnesses you interacted with, they were
[0:35:48 - 0:35:54] ▶
threatened. One of the witnesses was allegedly offered like a large sum of money not to talk about
[0:35:54 - 0:35:59] ▶
the alleged crash and the creatures like so. My point is this, if this is all fake, if this,
[0:36:00 - 0:36:05] ▶
if there's no nonhuman intelligence, there's no nonhuman materials and technologies,
[0:36:05 - 0:36:10] ▶
then why when you look at UFO history going back 70 plus years is the theme the same over and
[0:36:10 - 0:36:16] ▶
over again, the people who have apparently witnessed this phenomenon are threatened by someone
[0:36:16 - 0:36:23] ▶
somewhere. Why is that? You know, you forgot another one because the first time I ever actually
[0:36:23 - 0:36:28] ▶
kind of reported on these men and suits was in the I'd heard about it dating back to the 90s.
[0:36:28 - 0:36:34] ▶
I could talk until tomorrow morning, all the cases that I've heard where these men and suits show
[0:36:34 - 0:36:40] ▶
an intimidate and obvious gate and collect all the data, all the compelling data.
[0:36:40 - 0:36:48] ▶
I could go back to the 1940s about it. I'll give you one example. I interviewed Kenneth Arnold's
[0:36:51 - 0:36:59] ▶
daughter in the phenomenon and that's the story in itself. I could go on for hours on that one.
[0:37:00 - 0:37:05] ▶
What it took to get her to go on camera. My Lord, that was difficult. She said that her father was
[0:37:05 - 0:37:12] ▶
going to and her father was very famous, Kenneth Arnold. You know, remember that the coin to the
[0:37:12 - 0:37:17] ▶
phrase flying saucer after his sighting because he described it as a coin skipping across the water
[0:37:17 - 0:37:22] ▶
or a stone skipping across the water. And he was going to go on tour. This is according to his
[0:37:22 - 0:37:27] ▶
daughter. Okay. He was going to go on tour. I think he wrote a book and he was going to go on tour
[0:37:27 - 0:37:33] ▶
and talk about what he'd seen and whatever around the country. And he got a visit and basically
[0:37:33 - 0:37:40] ▶
threatening his life. Like, no, you're not doing that. And all the Roswell witnesses, you all the
[0:37:40 - 0:37:48] ▶
Roswell witnesses saying we're going to pick your bones out of the soil and we're going to pick
[0:37:48 - 0:37:51] ▶
your family's bones out of the way. What I have to ask you, the James. You got the 1950
[0:37:51 - 0:37:58] ▶
McMindville organ. The Paul Trenton is wife. I think it was Evelyn. And she had a guy in a suit show
[0:37:58 - 0:38:06] ▶
up at her house, ran sack her house, tried to find the other negatives. 1960 was it 65? Was it
[0:38:06 - 0:38:13] ▶
Rex Hefflyn? 65? Santa Ana, California. Men and suits showing up at his place. I mean,
[0:38:13 - 0:38:18] ▶
those goes on and on and on. It's beyond. It's it's it's it's to me. There is no legitimate skepticism
[0:38:18 - 0:38:25] ▶
that this is happening. Oh, no question. And then I kept I kept hearing about it and hearing about
[0:38:25 - 0:38:29] ▶
it and hearing about it. I did 50 years of denial that I did out of the blue that I did out of the
[0:38:29 - 0:38:33] ▶
blue version two that I did. I know what I saw and I refused for the better part of 20 years to
[0:38:33 - 0:38:39] ▶
report on these MIB men and black because all the baggage it had just, you know what I mean?
[0:38:39 - 0:38:44] ▶
And then when I got well, I reported on it a little bit with Greenwald, who was a scientific
[0:38:45 - 0:38:51] ▶
the science teacher at Westall Primary School in 1966 where you had that UFO landing event
[0:38:51 - 0:38:58] ▶
that flying saucer and broad daylight with 300 plus witnesses. And then he got a knock on his door
[0:38:58 - 0:39:02] ▶
because like, why did that science teacher who's a direct witness at the school standing next to
[0:39:03 - 0:39:08] ▶
his students during this not defend his students over decades? Well, he got a visit. Don't shut the
[0:39:08 - 0:39:13] ▶
hell up, you know, and I reported that was the first time I reported on it. Then I reported and
[0:39:13 - 0:39:19] ▶
then I got to Brazil and that woman describes the mother of the two girls, Katya, no, there was
[0:39:19 - 0:39:26] ▶
Volkkiria and Lilliani and Katya Volkiria and Lilliani's mother said that these men in suit shut up
[0:39:26 - 0:39:34] ▶
and I was like, are you kidding me? Like, really? I'm going all in on this one and I went all in on it
[0:39:34 - 0:39:41] ▶
and then I had no idea when I got this interview with Richard Graves, Richard Greaves, I'm sorry,
[0:39:41 - 0:39:48] ▶
in Scotland that that was going to lead to these men in black again that showed up. This is why
[0:39:48 - 0:39:54] ▶
these guys vanished for 34 years. They had every intention to publish those photographs. They were at
[0:39:54 - 0:40:01] ▶
one of the biggest newspapers in Scotland when they were going to publish their story.
[0:40:02 - 0:40:08] ▶
The only reason why the, you know, the RAF found out, the MOD found out is because the
[0:40:08 - 0:40:14] ▶
paper that was going to publish those pictures and the story contacted the RAF and said, hey,
[0:40:14 - 0:40:19] ▶
what do you, what do you make of these photographs? What do you make of this object that was captured
[0:40:19 - 0:40:23] ▶
and the guy goes, Cricklin's he goes, I don't know, I haven't seen it. Oh, well, we'll, we'll send you
[0:40:23 - 0:40:28] ▶
why don't we like your comment? So they send him the picture, that big beautiful print, which we
[0:40:28 - 0:40:32] ▶
feature in the movie. And he was like, holy shit, what is that with a military jet going around it?
[0:40:32 - 0:40:39] ▶
And so I guess he phones, he starts doing some preliminary research on it, he interviews the
[0:40:39 - 0:40:45] ▶
witnesses and then the MOD steps and takes over, witnesses gone, photographs gone, story dead.
[0:40:45 - 0:40:50] ▶
Oh my God, I have to ask you this, you know, because David Grush brought this up.
[0:40:51 - 0:40:56] ▶
And the American got involved too. So sorry.
[0:40:56 - 0:40:58] ▶
And David Grush has brought up, he didn't say he knows it's true, but he's maybe suspicious that
[0:40:59 - 0:41:05] ▶
maybe the United States has made an agreement with non-human intelligence. Do you think there's
[0:41:05 - 0:41:10] ▶
any validity? Is that potential? Look, one of the places where I'm at now is regardless of how
[0:41:10 - 0:41:17] ▶
outlandish and crazy something sounds is that I have to suspend my judgment, I have to suspend my,
[0:41:17 - 0:41:24] ▶
my knee jerk reaction of this is absolutely impossible, therefore it can't be, it can't, you know,
[0:41:27 - 0:41:34] ▶
and I've learned to stop and listen to any, any possible explanation because it's all so crazy that,
[0:41:35 - 0:41:48] ▶
I mean, look, I reported on live aliens walking through the town of Virgin into Brazil.
[0:41:51 - 0:41:55] ▶
It took me 10 years before I'd ever would even consider looking into that case because I couldn't
[0:41:56 - 0:42:01] ▶
believe it. And now people are talking about aliens walking among us. What am I going to say?
[0:42:01 - 0:42:05] ▶
Do I believe it? No, do I not believe it? No, I don't not believe it. I think it's possible.
[0:42:05 - 0:42:10] ▶
Whoever's flying these things, they're in on it too. Because I've said it before, all I have to do
[0:42:11 - 0:42:16] ▶
is fly with the Macy's Day parade and it's game over. They don't do it. I mean, the non-human intelligence,
[0:42:16 - 0:42:21] ▶
they're gaslighting the public as much as the government is gaslighting the public. Yeah, well,
[0:42:21 - 0:42:26] ▶
whatever their agenda is, and I have no idea, but they're not making themselves, I mean, look, they've
[0:42:26 - 0:42:30] ▶
done some pretty brazen things, right? I mean, look at some of the cases over the years. They've
[0:42:30 - 0:42:36] ▶
made themselves known. They have, I mean, I think one of the most brazen cases would be 1997
[0:42:36 - 0:42:43] ▶
in March 13th over the state of Arizona called the Phoenix Lights, but it's really, every time I talk
[0:42:43 - 0:42:50] ▶
to witnesses about that case, they get irritated when it's called the Phoenix Lights. I mean,
[0:42:50 - 0:42:55] ▶
the massive UFO flyover, you know, but that's pretty brazen. That was pretty brazen. You
[0:42:55 - 0:43:01] ▶
mentioned that happened today. All the footage that we'd have, I mean, obviously it's difficult
[0:43:01 - 0:43:05] ▶
capturing things at night, but still you'd have a lot more footage. And maybe that will happen.
[0:43:05 - 0:43:10] ▶
Yeah, I mean, look at the case in O'Hare Airport. Flying over a busy airport, hovering over
[0:43:11 - 0:43:17] ▶
terminal 17 for several minutes, a disc, really? That's pretty brazen, right? I mean, what are you
[0:43:17 - 0:43:26] ▶
doing? What are you doing, hovering over an airport, you know, with all the radar and the pilots
[0:43:26 - 0:43:32] ▶
and the people? It's like, it's almost like cosmic four-play, right? But eventually,
[0:43:33 - 0:43:38] ▶
they're going to show up and they're going to allow themselves to be proven. And what's the Pentagon
[0:43:39 - 0:43:43] ▶
going to say then? And secondly, do you think disclosure would unite humanity in any significant way?
[0:43:43 - 0:43:49] ▶
I do. Yes. Look at what's happening in Washington, DC. Just look at the Democrats working with the
[0:43:49 - 0:43:57] ▶
Republicans. Look at that. Isn't that beautiful to see people working together, right? Going after
[0:43:57 - 0:44:04] ▶
the story, it definitely, it transcends politics and religion and borders. I think it's a question.
[0:44:04 - 0:44:09] ▶
That's why I say it's like, yeah, the epicenter right now happens to be in the United States.
[0:44:09 - 0:44:13] ▶
This unprecedented push for transparency, right? We've seen some stuff happen in England and we've
[0:44:13 - 0:44:20] ▶
seen previously classified documents released in France. We've seen congressional hearings in Brazil.
[0:44:20 - 0:44:24] ▶
I personally went to China and I went to Russia in the late 90s. It'd be very different going
[0:44:25 - 0:44:30] ▶
there now. But they were very open about it then. I interviewed a general in Russia.
[0:44:30 - 0:44:36] ▶
Sorry, well, I did interview a couple of generals in Russia, but I also interviewed a general in China
[0:44:36 - 0:44:41] ▶
and speaking pretty open about it. And I think that was what 2018, maybe 2019, something like that.
[0:44:41 - 0:44:48] ▶
But I think the epicenter really is in America and they're global implications, right? It's not just
[0:44:52 - 0:44:59] ▶
the impact it's going to have on Americans. This is global. So if the US admits they've got this
[0:44:59 - 0:45:06] ▶
stuff, that's what I kind of wonder about too. If they're going to say we have definitive proof
[0:45:06 - 0:45:11] ▶
that we're not alone, they better have some damn evidence to reveal because the scientific
[0:45:11 - 0:45:15] ▶
community is not going to buy it, right? They're going to need to see it. They're never going to give
[0:45:15 - 0:45:20] ▶
up that technology. I'm told that's never going to happen because of that technology gets into the
[0:45:20 - 0:45:24] ▶
wrong hands and you could somehow reverse engineer it, put a new phone on that. That's not going to
[0:45:24 - 0:45:29] ▶
go. Well, somebody I just heard a noise in here. Maybe it's the wind. Anyway, where were we?
[0:45:29 - 0:45:35] ▶
I'll ask you this. Do you think Karl Nell, former what was the general?
[0:45:36 - 0:45:42] ▶
Yeah, do you think he was one of the 40 witnesses that David Grush referenced?
[0:45:44 - 0:45:47] ▶
I don't know. I don't know. I have a hard time reading him. I hung out with him a couple of times.
[0:45:49 - 0:45:57] ▶
Most recently at Seoul, the Seoul Foundation, and we kept our conversation light. As soon as I
[0:45:58 - 0:46:07] ▶
probed into anything UAP related, he climbed up. Certainly makes me wonder whether he's a first hand
[0:46:07 - 0:46:20] ▶
or a second hand or what he's seen because he's made some pretty definitive statements.
[0:46:20 - 0:46:24] ▶
You had a guy you called US Navy X in your film. Here's a quote, maybe not a perfect quote, but I
[0:46:24 - 0:46:32] ▶
think he said the American people are being lied to high time. We ripped the bandit off and go for
[0:46:32 - 0:46:36] ▶
full transparency. America, Americans in the world have a right to know. Will this Navy X guy ever go
[0:46:36 - 0:46:43] ▶
like you, you obviously you made his voice anonymous and you didn't give his real name, but will he
[0:46:43 - 0:46:48] ▶
ever go public? This individual is putting out a statement the day the film's being released.
[0:46:48 - 0:46:54] ▶
I've been working with this individual on that statement and there will be a lot of things
[0:46:54 - 0:47:00] ▶
explained within that statement. And that'll go public on the 16th. Would you consider him a
[0:47:00 - 0:47:07] ▶
first hand witness of sorts? Definitely. All right, I look forward to his statement, but you're not
[0:47:07 - 0:47:12] ▶
going to elaborate on that obviously. No, I can't. Yeah. Okay. Do you have any reason to think
[0:47:12 - 0:47:21] ▶
if there's any component of NASA that knows UFO or non human intelligence? Because the
[0:47:21 - 0:47:25] ▶
yeah, I did. And I felt like, you know, when I kind of mow-mow'd the head of NASA at that press conference,
[0:47:26 - 0:47:34] ▶
you know, I was really picked off at his response to Bill Nelson. Bill Nelson, yeah. Because,
[0:47:35 - 0:47:45] ▶
you know, they were really they were really adamant that everyone only got one question in and I
[0:47:45 - 0:47:52] ▶
really wanted to ask him about David Grush because he had just testified in open,
[0:47:52 - 0:47:56] ▶
grateful hearings just like I don't know within weeks or months, whatever it was, recent.
[0:47:56 - 0:48:00] ▶
But I can only get one question in. I actually squeezed two questions in and I was the first person
[0:48:01 - 0:48:07] ▶
out the gate and I was like, God, I really wanted to ask him about David Grush and thank God.
[0:48:07 - 0:48:12] ▶
Another individual came up and just nailed it. So I got my two questions. You got the David Grush in.
[0:48:12 - 0:48:17] ▶
And what I kind of expected Bill Nelson to say is, hey, you know, NASA is currently in the process
[0:48:17 - 0:48:22] ▶
of investigating UAP and, you know, we take these allegations seriously, particularly, you know,
[0:48:22 - 0:48:29] ▶
a gentleman within the intelligence community with the clearances, etc., for the more dance
[0:48:29 - 0:48:34] ▶
work. We're looking into this and we'll report back accordingly. That's kind of what I expected
[0:48:34 - 0:48:39] ▶
him to say. But he went out and did a hatchet job on Grush. It was so blatantly obvious
[0:48:39 - 0:48:45] ▶
that I really started to think, now, wait a minute, that wasn't just skepticism, that was debunking.
[0:48:46 - 0:48:53] ▶
Like, he literally went out of his way to be like, oh, yeah, I talked about the bloody of his,
[0:48:53 - 0:48:56] ▶
it had a alien in a cardboard box in a warehouse somewhere. It's like, what? Are you talking about,
[0:48:56 - 0:49:03] ▶
I was so upset at the time. I just remember I was, but I wanted to say something out loud.
[0:49:03 - 0:49:10] ▶
But I already had this issue with one of the police officers on the way in where he didn't want me in
[0:49:10 - 0:49:14] ▶
and I could see him kind of looking at me. I wanted so badly to say something again. But I kept my
[0:49:14 - 0:49:19] ▶
composure and I said, revenge is the platter best serve cold and I juxtaposed his statement,
[0:49:19 - 0:49:26] ▶
literally split screen with Grush in the edit room and I really worked hard putting that whole
[0:49:26 - 0:49:31] ▶
segment together to get my, to get payback. And I think we did a great job on it.
[0:49:31 - 0:49:35] ▶
I don't know if you would have any insight on this, but according to Dr. Eric Davis,
[0:49:37 - 0:49:41] ▶
and I know you covered him in your film, Dr. Eric Davis has said that it's not just that the UAP
[0:49:41 - 0:49:47] ▶
are crashing, but some of them are actually landing. And Grush has said the same thing. Grush has said
[0:49:47 - 0:49:52] ▶
that some of them land and sometimes either the occupants have abandoned the craft or they're in
[0:49:52 - 0:49:58] ▶
the craft dead. Do you have any insights on why the phenomenon would do this? Or are you familiar
[0:49:58 - 0:50:02] ▶
with these reports? I'm familiar with those reports. Yeah, I'm familiar, particularly Kingman,
[0:50:02 - 0:50:07] ▶
Arizona in 1953. I remember asking an individual about it a couple. It was just landed and it was a
[0:50:07 - 0:50:17] ▶
gift and then they walked away. I was like, how do you know they walked away? Well, the doors were open.
[0:50:17 - 0:50:23] ▶
I said the doors were open. So they flew down and landed in the desert,
[0:50:24 - 0:50:29] ▶
left the doors open and walked out. Yep. Really? It was almost like a gift.
[0:50:30 - 0:50:35] ▶
Do we have any idea where it came from? We have some ideas, but that's about it. That's all I know.
[0:50:37 - 0:50:43] ▶
And I heard that from a couple of very credible sources that that was like a gift.
[0:50:43 - 0:50:47] ▶
Yeah, I mean, it seems to me it's pretty obvious. I mean, I don't know. I'm being
[0:50:49 - 0:50:53] ▶
I'm being at anthropomorphic here, but if they're engaging humanity and governments on this level,
[0:50:53 - 0:50:58] ▶
it seems likely that at some point they're just going to implement open contact. And when that
[0:50:58 - 0:51:03] ▶
happens, the Pentagon is good. What is the Pentagon going to say at that point? Yeah, that would be
[0:51:03 - 0:51:10] ▶
what kind of disclosure did they call that catastrophic or something? Yeah, yeah. And
[0:51:11 - 0:51:16] ▶
you know, maybe that comes first. I don't know. Or maybe, you know, they're taking the
[0:51:18 - 0:51:24] ▶
temperature. It's amazing. Like some of the statements that were made in 2020 and well, what's
[0:51:24 - 0:51:29] ▶
happened between, you know, sort of now, 2017 and now, you know, there have been some very
[0:51:29 - 0:51:36] ▶
definitive statements about the look, it's no longer a question to do the exist or don't they exist,
[0:51:36 - 0:51:41] ▶
right? And it's funny, actually, because it it left people slack job for a couple of months.
[0:51:41 - 0:51:46] ▶
And then people just went right back to work or whatever they're doing and kind of just forgot
[0:51:46 - 0:51:50] ▶
about it. It's like no big deal. And you have, you know, this guy, this intelligence officer
[0:51:50 - 0:51:55] ▶
testify under oath and open congressional hearings. And you know, I got some traction in mainstream.
[0:51:55 - 0:52:02] ▶
I it's it's shocking to me how it kind of came and went because when people make those assertions,
[0:52:02 - 0:52:15] ▶
those allegations, the implications are so profound for all of humanity. How could you not dedicate
[0:52:15 - 0:52:24] ▶
all the resources efforts and time into uncovering revealing whether those statements are really true?
[0:52:24 - 0:52:33] ▶
Do you know what I mean? Like when we have a president's sexual paccadillos aired, you know,
[0:52:33 - 0:52:39] ▶
you got all this energy and resources and time spent digging in for, you know, a sexual encounter
[0:52:39 - 0:52:49] ▶
with the president. I mean, they the Monica Lewinsky thing case in point, you know hearings and all
[0:52:49 - 0:52:53] ▶
that stuff testifying and and yet you've got a guy who comes forward and makes these extraordinary
[0:52:53 - 0:53:01] ▶
allegations, right? And says he's given even the street address to where the stuff is to the current
[0:53:01 - 0:53:08] ▶
ICIG, Thomas Monheim. And yet, what where's the follow up? I mean, news nation is the pretty much the
[0:53:08 - 0:53:15] ▶
only news outlet that's that's done any substantive reporting on this topic. And it's like,
[0:53:15 - 0:53:20] ▶
unbelievable to me and you look at 60 minutes did it finally. I waited forever for 60 minutes to
[0:53:21 - 0:53:25] ▶
finally do a report on UFOs. And I think as from what I understand it to either the second or the
[0:53:25 - 0:53:30] ▶
first most popular production story they've ever done, where's the follow up? Yeah, where's the follow
[0:53:30 - 0:53:38] ▶
guys? Where are you guys? It's just it's almost like the stigma just doesn't go away. It just
[0:53:38 - 0:53:46] ▶
definitely way. It's baffling to me. You know, but hey, it's great because I'm enjoying doing it.
[0:53:46 - 0:53:53] ▶
I know you covered grush. You did cover grush. You did a great job covering grushing your film.
[0:53:55 - 0:53:59] ▶
Very accurate, very concise. What happened to grushes op ed number one and number two, when is
[0:53:59 - 0:54:05] ▶
grush going to get in a skiff with members of Congress? I don't know, you know, my ass
[0:54:05 - 0:54:11] ▶
brachette about that. And he basically said that that grush
[0:54:12 - 0:54:17] ▶
clearances were stripped and that he can't get into his gift because they will not give grush.
[0:54:18 - 0:54:24] ▶
The clearances now, one of the things I think that Brian Bender had said, here goes, look, I spent
[0:54:24 - 0:54:30] ▶
former contributing editor, I guess, political magazine. He goes, like as someone who spent 20 years
[0:54:30 - 0:54:36] ▶
reporting on the hill, I can tell you something that if Congress finds out the American
[0:54:36 - 0:54:40] ▶
public will find out too. So they probably are doing everything they can to prevent Congress from
[0:54:40 - 0:54:46] ▶
getting the necessary details to verify the claims that grush has made because they know it's
[0:54:46 - 0:54:50] ▶
going to leak to the general public. So he's being denied that. Maybe things will change with
[0:54:50 - 0:54:55] ▶
the new administration. I'm hoping things will. I'm certainly going to put the hammer down.
[0:54:55 - 0:55:00] ▶
I've got things planned in the coming months to really keep the pressure on. I think it's not
[0:55:01 - 0:55:06] ▶
the time to let up on this. What do you have planned in the coming months? Can you elaborate on that
[0:55:07 - 0:55:12] ▶
yeah, I'm going to go back to Brazil next month, 98% certain on that. I could do some follow
[0:55:13 - 0:55:19] ▶
interviews. There's been some new developments. And then I want to put together an event like I
[0:55:19 - 0:55:24] ▶
did in 2007, Leslie Kane at the National Press Club. I want to get a panel of individuals that
[0:55:24 - 0:55:31] ▶
that could disclose what they know within reason, right? Could you name any of those people
[0:55:32 - 0:55:38] ▶
that you want on your panel? No, no. I've got five committed right now. I'm going to try to get 12
[0:55:38 - 0:55:44] ▶
another seven. And once they're comfortable revealing their participation, then I'll make
[0:55:44 - 0:55:51] ▶
the announcements. But I'm trying to figure out what month I want to do it. And I'm working on
[0:55:51 - 0:55:56] ▶
that. I'm 99% sure that I'm going to that's what I want to do. I've been talking about it for a while.
[0:55:56 - 0:56:02] ▶
And the reason being is that yeah, I can do another follow-up documentary, which I will do,
[0:56:02 - 0:56:06] ▶
because naturally where the program leads off, it's like, you know, we're wanting more. All right,
[0:56:06 - 0:56:12] ▶
now what, right? But everything's happening so quickly. If I did an event at the National Press Club,
[0:56:12 - 0:56:17] ▶
I can document the whole thing a couple days prior. I could obviously film the event itself.
[0:56:17 - 0:56:21] ▶
And then there'll be a full open floor to the media. They can interact with these witnesses,
[0:56:22 - 0:56:27] ▶
ask questions. I can document all that. Then I can edit that, put that together, and release that.
[0:56:28 - 0:56:34] ▶
You could, everything's, again, everything's so current, right? And kind of try to do the job
[0:56:34 - 0:56:40] ▶
that that arrows should be doing, right? Are you concerned that you might get some,
[0:56:40 - 0:56:48] ▶
some people telling you they don't want you to put this National Press Club event together?
[0:56:48 - 0:56:52] ▶
No, no, no, no, no, I'm not. Yeah.
[0:56:53 - 0:56:58] ▶
I mean, look, if I had a piece of a UFO, you damn right, I'd be wearing it.
[0:57:01 - 0:57:07] ▶
Or somebody stuck out a piece of UFO, put it from the DOD, I'd be wearing it.
[0:57:08 - 0:57:14] ▶
Right, right. I'll be wearing, right? Right, right. That's, that's, that's where is some, you know,
[0:57:15 - 0:57:20] ▶
that's very where is some, you know, people that have witnessed things are scared. Now,
[0:57:20 - 0:57:25] ▶
imagine witnessing something and having definitive evidence from that case. Yeah, I would not
[0:57:25 - 0:57:31] ▶
sleep very well if I had anything like that in my possession. No, you think about it too. I've
[0:57:31 - 0:57:36] ▶
thought about that scenario a number of times. Let's just say that I went back to Brazil and I went
[0:57:36 - 0:57:41] ▶
to the crash site and I found debris with a metal detector or dug some stuff up, which I think,
[0:57:41 - 0:57:46] ▶
I don't know, has ever been done in something that I'd like to do at some point.
[0:57:46 - 0:57:49] ▶
But let's just say I did find a piece that was from a UFO from the crash. Would I be worried?
[0:57:50 - 0:57:57] ▶
What would I do with that piece? Would I take it to a lab to have it analyzed?
[0:57:58 - 0:58:03] ▶
You know, have a peer review done on it? Then release it. Would I be worried about the fact that it
[0:58:05 - 0:58:10] ▶
was going to disappear in the lab if word got out where it was? Or do I go on a TV show? Then I
[0:58:10 - 0:58:15] ▶
talk about it. Then no one's going to believe it because I don't see it. How would you even roll
[0:58:15 - 0:58:20] ▶
that out? Would you have it analyzed all in secrecy? And then put that out? Would you have a press
[0:58:20 - 0:58:26] ▶
conference with it? How would you do it? You know what I mean? Think about it. I've thought about
[0:58:26 - 0:58:33] ▶
that. Yeah. How would you do that? How would you do it in a way that people are going to believe it?
[0:58:33 - 0:58:37] ▶
And I've talked to so many people, Dr. Peter Sturk, who just passed a couple of months ago from
[0:58:37 - 0:58:42] ▶
Stanford. He actually, I've known, I've interviewed him since the late 90s. He was in out of the blue.
[0:58:42 - 0:58:50] ▶
Dr. Peter Sturk, rest in peace. Thank you for your service. He gave me a bunch of materials
[0:58:51 - 0:58:58] ▶
maybe 10 years ago, maybe a little longer, 12 years ago, that he wanted me to have analyzed.
[0:58:59 - 0:59:05] ▶
I forwarded them along. I had him in my house for a couple years. What am I going to do with,
[0:59:05 - 0:59:10] ▶
it's spooked people out a little bit. And so I ended up handing those along to some scientists
[0:59:11 - 0:59:17] ▶
that could do the necessary analysis work. And I don't know what's happened since then. But he told
[0:59:17 - 0:59:23] ▶
me that don't ever talk about it publicly. Don't ever talk about it over the phone or email.
[0:59:23 - 0:59:29] ▶
And I was like, God, you're so paranoid. I don't have it anymore. So that's not a worry about it.
[0:59:29 - 0:59:33] ▶
But I was like, God, you're so paranoid. I would be paranoid like if we go stuff as a strange way
[0:59:33 - 0:59:39] ▶
of disappearing. And then he said, I had some in my vault at the bank. And the bank manager called him
[0:59:39 - 0:59:49] ▶
and said, I'm not sure how to explain this, but your bank vault was opened. And it's left open.
[0:59:49 - 0:59:55] ▶
And the contents are gone. And Dr. Peter Sturk told me this. He said, this stuff has a strange
[0:59:55 - 1:00:01] ▶
way of disappearing. He also had some disappear from the lab that he was having analyzed. People showed
[1:00:01 - 1:00:06] ▶
up and said, we're from Dr. Peter Sturk's office, whatever. We're here to pick the stuff up.
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That was gone. But he had it spread out all over the place. He wasn't, he wasn't dumb. But he did
[1:00:11 - 1:00:16] ▶
tell me, he literally said, this stuff has a strange way of disappearing. Be very careful. And I ended
[1:00:16 - 1:00:20] ▶
up after a couple of years. I just gave, I gave it out to some scientists that have it analyzed.
[1:00:20 - 1:00:25] ▶
And I don't know what's happened to it since I could probably follow up.
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Yeah, this reminds me of the part of your film where Chris Melon talks about how
[1:00:29 - 1:00:33] ▶
the art from the archives, he wanted someone to look into the archives record from the Nimitz event.
[1:00:33 - 1:00:38] ▶
And it was gone. Everything before and everything was after was still there. But I'll give you,
[1:00:38 - 1:00:43] ▶
I'll give you the last word James. Thank you so much for coming on my show. And you can tell the
[1:00:43 - 1:00:47] ▶
audience when your film's coming out and how to find it. Oh, do we just get cut off? No, no,
[1:00:47 - 1:00:53] ▶
I've just been about an hour and I don't want to get on. Yeah, I know they got me scheduled for
[1:00:53 - 1:00:58] ▶
other things. Yeah, so I want to quickly say this is the most independent production we've ever
[1:00:58 - 1:01:04] ▶
done from start to finish. We have no distributor. We're doing it all completely independently on our
[1:01:04 - 1:01:09] ▶
own. The film will be available on the 16th of December, which is in a couple of days.
[1:01:09 - 1:01:13] ▶
It'll be available on Amazon, iTunes, Apple TV, Vimeo. And I posted a various other platforms
[1:01:15 - 1:01:22] ▶
on my ex site, formerly known as Twitter at James C Fox. C for Charlie James at James C Fox.
[1:01:22 - 1:01:32] ▶
And it's going to be available for purchase only for the first couple of weeks. And it's going
[1:01:32 - 1:01:37] ▶
to be expensive. It's $20 and I totally understand that's a lot of money. If you can afford to support
[1:01:37 - 1:01:42] ▶
our complete independent production, then then purchases it. And if you can't, it'll be available
[1:01:42 - 1:01:49] ▶
to rent for a much lower price in two weeks. Awesome. Thank you so much, James. Special thanks to all
[1:01:49 - 1:01:54] ▶
YouTube members, patrons, those about merch, those of you giving me one time donation. I couldn't
[1:01:54 - 1:01:58] ▶
do without you. Thank you so much. See you in the next episode.
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