576 segments
I want to have read and seen sense.
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You know, describing essentially what they remember.
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We got a good sense.
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It's just a nice part of the world, really.
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Everybody shall help hang on that.
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Let's, let's see how our tinker toys are all put together here.
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If we got any kind of an audio lab.
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Yeah. If you just want to give me a little bit of...
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Wait, would you just...
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Say a couple of things.
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Let's, okay. First of all, the phone was ringing, right?
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Really the way I became involved in this was started out in the after-early afternoon,
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around probably 130 in the afternoon.
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I received a telephone call from the Marcheary Warrie Office
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throughout it, the Walker Air Force Base, Army Airfield Base.
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And he was requiring, inquiring about what would be the smallest possible casket
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that we could get that would be dramatically sealed.
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And at that time, I know that we had used, like, the fourth feet and caskets.
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We had used those before, but I thought they also made them in at 36.
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So, he wanted to know if we had any in stock.
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And I said, no, but if I could make a call to Amarell, I can have him in, you know,
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by seven o'clock the next morning on the truck.
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So, he said, I'll get back to you.
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And that was the first contact that I had with the base.
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Then he called back, probably, 45 minutes or so later.
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And he said, I need to ask you some more questions.
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He said, in case something like this should happen, he said, we need to know what preparation,
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what your preparations are for the bodies that had been laying out in the elements, you know.
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And he said, we need to know also what your treatments of the bodies are the remains.
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What could you do to them?
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And if your treatments would it change any of the chemical breakdown of the tissues, the blood,
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would it make a difference?
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And I said, I thought probably it would.
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And I said, of course, he knew exactly how we would treat those bodies,
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because we have an outline from them and what we really have to do.
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I think he already at that point knew exactly what we would have to do.
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Did you disclose to you what he had?
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No. I told him. I said, if you, if you have a problem, if you want, you know,
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if you ask them, then you don't really know what to do about it, let me come out.
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And I'll, you know, try to help you do whatever you want to do.
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Let's just back up, just a minute.
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Let's start again with...
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You were saying you told him that you could come out and take care of what he had right now.
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So, and he said, well, you know, we don't really have anything.
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He said, we're sitting here at the thing in case we should get involved in something like this,
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you know, what would be our preparation, what should we do?
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Then I, you know, I went through...
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I said, do you really want to know how we would do it?
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Well, yes, you know, we would like to know.
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So that's when I explained to him that we would have the vats that we would fill up with the...
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with formaldehyde solution with water.
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And we would put the bodies in them, let them stay there for 24 hours and then take them out.
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And then we would pack the bodies in...
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would be a sawdust and really align what we would pack them in, then wrap them in the plastic.
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That's bodies that were badly decomposed.
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If there was tissue, deep tissue, we would have to do it hyperdomically with needles to get to the deep tissue.
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Then we would have to aspirate the cavities if the cavities hadn't already ruptured
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and then put some cavity fluid in those.
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I said, that's, you know, kind of normal procedure.
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Now, at one point, you finally offered to take care of it for them.
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Well, I offered two, three times, yeah.
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Can you review what that conversation went from?
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You mean, when I offered to take care of them?
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He said, well, we don't really write it this time.
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We don't really need your assistant, but he said in case something like this should happen,
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then he said we would be prepared and we would know what to do.
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Then we got back onto the subject of maybe not damaging any of the chemicals compounding thing with the bodies.
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The bodies are tissues, whatever, because they wanted to, you know, how would you pick bodies up like that?
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And what would you do not to contaminate any of it?
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Didn't this begin to single strings to get that point?
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Well, I thought maybe what happened they might have had a VIP or some officers and something that happened.
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They made them want to keep it quiet and they probably wanted to do it themselves,
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not be involved with the civilian businesses or anything.
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So after these conversations, you were curious and you went on out to the base as I was standing.
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Can you review that?
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Well, I didn't go out to the base.
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Yeah, I was curious, but I didn't go out to the base and probably a couple of hours later.
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And I'd got an emergency call.
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It was an airman that was in your dinner in accident.
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And I took the airman to the base.
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He wrote in the ambulance with me and I'd take him out to the emergency emergency.
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And that's the way I became really involved out the base.
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I didn't go out just because I was curious.
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Give me the sequence from the time you picked up the airman and just described me.
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Well, and I got the call.
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You know, I left the funeral home and the ambulance went to the scene of the accident, picked the airman up.
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I did not place him on a stretcher because he had it head injury and his nose was fractured.
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So I did some minor first aid and then he sat in the front seat with me all the way to the base.
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When we got to the base, then he walked into the emergency room.
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I didn't have to take him in.
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They didn't bring out a gurney or anything.
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He just walked in on his own.
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Then I never did see him after that.
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Then I had this friend that I wanted to talk to and say to you,
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this is Lieutenant Nurse that I knew quite well.
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That it only been there approximately.
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It only been commissioned and been there to sign.
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This was their first assignment to the airbase.
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I wanted to talk to her and so this I was going down the hall.
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The first thing, the lady that I wanted to tell you,
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that I wanted to see was coming out of one room, going across the hall to the other.
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She said, how did you get in here?
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What are you doing in here?
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She said you better get out in the hurry.
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She said you're going to get in a lot of trouble.
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She said, would you please leave and get out of here in the hurry?
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Then I'd turn around and then about, and she went on into the other room.
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Then in about time I turned around, there was another officer said,
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I said, looks like you had a crash.
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I said, I see there's some, you know, in the ambulance.
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In the ambulance is out there.
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I see a lot of recognize.
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I said, where was the crash?
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He said there wasn't any crash.
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Then he said, then he said just wait a minute.
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And then I, he said wait a minute.
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And I, you know, stood there for a minute.
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He turned around and here, evidently, he must have waited for somebody else to come out
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because there was another officer coming out.
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And he said, this man says there was a crash out at the base.
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He said, he want to know about, he was inquiring about our crash.
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And this was when I encountered, he was a red-headed officer.
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And very nasty, very rough.
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He said, you did not see any crash.
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There was not any crash.
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And he said, you get the hell out of here and you didn't see anything
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and you don't talk to anybody.
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He said, you're going to get in hell a lot of trouble.
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And I said, look, I'm a civilian.
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You're in the damn thing.
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You can do to me about it.
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He said, no, but somebody might be picking your bones out of the sand.
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That's when he made the remark there.
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Then there was a black sergeant that was standing beside him.
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And he said, yeah, but he would make better dog food for our dogs.
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Of course, I didn't understand that, but my father happened to be an old trapper
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and for a hobby and everything.
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And I said, my father used a guy like you for bait and he's cowed traps.
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And then there was two MPs that joined me right on, ticked me outside
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and each held me by my elbows and they escorted me out to the back to the ambulance
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and followed me all the way back to the funeral home.
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Now, as you were entering the hospital, you saw something in three trucks.
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Yeah, because usually where I parked there was three field ambulances parked in the area
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where I usually parked, where we'll be back up to the ramps.
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So I just pulled up to the side in front of those and parked out in the front
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in the airman when I got out and walked in.
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So when I passed, when I got up, went up the steps and up the ramp
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and I was walking, going into the emergency room, I noticed that the doors were open.
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And then what was odd about it, there was an MP standing beside each one of the vehicles
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in the back, standing there.
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And the doors were open, naturally I was curious and you know, I just happened to look in.
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That's when I saw some debris, it looked like parts of a plane or something
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that they hadn't had a crash.
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Because I've seen them do this a lot of time of bringing in pieces in the old ambulances in.
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Can you describe the debris?
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Yeah, they were, I noticed in two of the ambulances there was some debris
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that was probably two and a half to three feet long and probably high.
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That was propped up on the side of the ambulance there.
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They were kind of in the shape of maybe like a half a canoe.
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They were like the front part of a canoe.
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And you know, it looked like, it looked like it might be a loom in the minute.
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It looked more like it was, the metal looked more like stainless steel
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that had been heated.
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It was blue, kind of a bluish tinted.
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So what was odd about it, it looked like around the curved part in the front of the canoe.
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There was some designs or something that kind of reminded me of maybe some Egyptian signs or whatever.
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And it was probably about three inches in high and probably the length of what the record just thought.
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It looked like it was the same thing as in the other ambulance too.
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I mean, I saw practically the same thing.
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The pieces that were practically the same size and the insignias looked like whatever that might be.
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It was part of the wreckage.
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How did the friend feel about what she saw?
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I didn't know really until the next day.
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I called out, I kept trying to get a hold of it because naturally I was curious and I wanted to know what was going on.
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So I called out the next day and then probably around 11.30 and she said,
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I know you've been trying to get a hold of me but I haven't been available.
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And she said, why don't you meet me at the Alpsist Club?
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She had time meet at the Alpsist Club and we'll have lunch and I wanted to talk to you.
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And the funeral home we had at that time, we had all of the sudden the businesses there had an associate membership to the Alpsist Club.
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And our funeral home had that membership and also had a card to identify myself and what business that I was associated with.
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So I had no problem. One time I go to the base, I had to do a lot of times if it was in the evening I'd have to stop and sign a vest,
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just to get a vest, just passing and then turn it in when I left.
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There was no problem going out there.
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So I went on out and met her. Big friend.
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Tell me about lunch.
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Well, you know, both ordered, I'm not sure, remember what we ordered but it was just a light lunch but she was so upset.
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She looked like she was, you know, in shock, because what she really talked like and looked like.
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And she said, well, I was just curious the only reason I want to talk to you.
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I was curious on what happened.
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And she said, well, you won't believe it.
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And she says, I don't believe it either but she said, I got in a lot of trouble on this thing.
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Probably, I'm not real sure about this but she said, when I, then she pulled out of a little purse or a little pocketbook, whatever she had there.
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She gave me a little diagram that she had that she had drawn some, draw some figures of some arms in the face.
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And so on, she told me that this was what, you know, was what was in those, that it was a crash.
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It wasn't an airplane but they didn't know what it was at that time.
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Yeah, but she said, we have three bodies, there was three bodies.
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She said, two of them were very mutilated.
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One looked like it might have walked out or, you know, might have lived a little while.
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And she explained there were like three and a half feet, four feet tall.
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Two of the bodies were, you couldn't identify much because they were practically destroyed and it looked like maybe that they might have been a predatory animal or something might have been dead some damage on the bodies too.
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How did she describe your head and your hands?
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Well, she said that you had it in the little drawings that I had, she, in the way she explained it and why she drew it.
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The heads were somewhat larger than a human head.
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The hands were long, no thumbs.
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It was just a long, very delicate fingers at the end of the, on the underside at the tip of each fingers was a pad like, maybe a little pad,
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but it looked like the skin had maybe little suction, like the little suction cups on those on the, no fingernails on the hands.
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The head, the lips were very just a long, narrow, more or less, not full lips like we would have in most of our people, but very fine line, very fine lips.
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There was no teeth that was the inside of the mouth that was, it was kind of like a real, a gums, maybe it was, she said to explain it, it was almost as hard as if it was raw hide, maybe.
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But the, the years, there was only two small offices on each side of the head with, it looked like a couple of small lobes that might, some way that might cover both of those, but there was not a protruding ear.
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And also that the nose, there was only two small offices and the nose that was, there was, there was really no nose that was the convex, it was all just flesh with the, the face.
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Was she emotional about all this?
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Very much so, very emotional. She would have to stop and drink water every once in a while and also she never touched a meal at all the time we were talking in the narrow and half that we were there, she never touched a meal.
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Any other demonstrations of emotion, indications of how she was upset?
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Well, just, you know, wherever once in a while she'd go like this, you know, then ring in her hands and she said, there was the most, most, horror, I've never been so horrified in my life, I've never seen anything so gruesome in my life, I've never smelled anything that smelled worse than my life.
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And she told me that when I saw her she was leaving the room to go to the bathroom because she was deathly ill and was going to throw up.
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Did she recognize any of the doctors by the examining the body?
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She told me, she said, I don't, I ask you that question which of the doctors and she said, I don't know that, I knew them, that was her answer.
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So, but she said she walked in the room and they said, hey, we need you, you need to help us.
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And that was where she became involved and then she got ill, the doctors also became very ill, they would have to do little examination and they'd have to leave and go sit down and then they would come back and do a little bit more, it was that bad.
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After her conversation with her, I had to launch, can you describe what happened after how you were unable to see her again and how you learned the...
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Well, yeah, we'd visited a while and then I had to get back to the funeral home, go back to work but then I never did see her after that.
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And I called out to next day to see how she was feeling and they told me that she wasn't available, then I wouldn't be available that day, I'll call the next day and they told me that she'd been transferred.
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And it was rather odd because she'd only been at the base less than three months, that was her non-commission less than three months and that was her first assignment.
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So that was rather odd that she would be transferred out within three months.
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Later on, you attempted to go... I guess you got a letter.
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Then about two weeks, probably two weeks, at least two weeks, could have been a little long but I know it was at least two weeks, I got a letter addressed to me at Glen Edison's about her feeling home.
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She didn't have any return to address or anything on it but inside of the letter, there was just a note, she said, I don't have time to write, I will write later, this is my EPO number.
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And that was the extent of it.
[0:20:13 - 0:20:16] ▶
So then I wrote back to her and asked her more or less how she was feeling and why the sudden transfer and then I was hope that she wasn't in any trouble.
[0:20:16 - 0:20:30] ▶
It was just a short note, I really didn't go into a lot of detail or anything.
[0:20:30 - 0:20:34] ▶
Then probably three weeks or probably a month after that, then I got the letter that I had mailed to her.
[0:20:34 - 0:20:42] ▶
It was returned, it was returned and also it sold them on then red printing it said deceased.
[0:20:42 - 0:20:50] ▶
And that's the last time I've ever heard or heard anything about it.
[0:20:50 - 0:20:54] ▶
Then I went out to the base a few days later and I was talking to one of the nurses and I said, you know what ever happened to Lieutenant.
[0:20:54 - 0:21:04] ▶
And she said, well the rumor is that we heard that she was killed with five other nurses in a training mission in a plane crash.
[0:21:04 - 0:21:12] ▶
No indication of where?
[0:21:14 - 0:21:15] ▶
Well it was in London, England. She said in the note that she said me that she was in London, station in London.
[0:21:15 - 0:21:22] ▶
And that was it. That's the last time I've heard.
[0:21:22 - 0:21:25] ▶
Do you believe that she's dead?
[0:21:25 - 0:21:28] ▶
No, I don't think so. After all the happening and after threatening me and everything I dealt very seriously, that she was, I would hope not.
[0:21:28 - 0:21:40] ▶
What would you like to say to her if she happened to see this?
[0:21:40 - 0:21:43] ▶
Well, she happened to this see it. If she feels like the...
[0:21:43 - 0:21:50] ▶
You know, she wants to talk if she feels like I would like to hear from her, yes.
[0:21:50 - 0:21:55] ▶
To see what's been going on in her life.
[0:21:55 - 0:21:58] ▶
And why she wouldn't be able to contact me? If she feels like it.
[0:21:58 - 0:22:05] ▶
It's not clear for me.
[0:22:08 - 0:22:11] ▶
Okay. Now, the sheriff told you father you were in trouble.
[0:22:11 - 0:22:23] ▶
Okay, what happened there? Then the next day after I was there when I had the problem with the officer and the black man, I was told my father was contacted by our sheriff, George Wilcox, which was a very close friend of my father.
[0:22:23 - 0:22:40] ▶
He was a very good friend.
[0:22:40 - 0:22:43] ▶
And he called to see if my father was home because he wanted to come out and talk to my father.
[0:22:43 - 0:22:52] ▶
And he did so and he told my father that there was a black sergeant from the base that came to his office, was inquiring about who my parents were, my mother and my father.
[0:22:52 - 0:23:05] ▶
He brothers or sisters, you know, wanting to know what my personal family, who they were and where they were.
[0:23:05 - 0:23:13] ▶
George said that he didn't... you knew I had some family, but he didn't know where they were and anything else.
[0:23:13 - 0:23:19] ▶
So anyway, he told my father that he did contact my father and he told my father that he thought I might be in some trouble.
[0:23:19 - 0:23:28] ▶
But he didn't... they evidently didn't explain why I was in trouble.
[0:23:28 - 0:23:35] ▶
So, you know, first thing my father did was get in his car and come to the funeral home.
[0:23:35 - 0:23:41] ▶
He said we had to talk because he and I were very close. We were real good friends. The best friend I ever had was my father.
[0:23:41 - 0:23:48] ▶
He said, I've got to talk. He said, if you're in trouble, we've got to do something about it and I said I'm not in trouble.
[0:23:48 - 0:23:55] ▶
He said, well, you are. He said, George Wilkock told me that you were in a lot of trouble and that you got involved in something that you had no business getting involved in.
[0:23:55 - 0:24:06] ▶
And that you could be in a lot of trouble. And I said, then... so I told my father the story.
[0:24:06 - 0:24:12] ▶
And he's the only man that I've ever told a story to until I talked to Stan Friedman and to you people, and that's the up period.
[0:24:12 - 0:24:21] ▶
And I did tell my father what the story was. Of course, it was unbelievable for him.
[0:24:21 - 0:24:29] ▶
But then he became very upset and he wanted to go shoot a few people and all that because they did threaten my life.
[0:24:29 - 0:24:38] ▶
So, that was the way my father heard about it and that was extent my family. And he never would tell him who my brother.
[0:24:38 - 0:24:46] ▶
And I had a brother that was a fighter pilot during that time. And I had three sisters. And one of them was a nurse.
[0:24:46 - 0:24:55] ▶
But he would never tell him anything. And so he didn't tell the sheriff for anybody else because the sheriff was supposed to come back and give him the names where they were at.
[0:24:55 - 0:25:04] ▶
Let's get back to your friend. Did she express an opinion as to what she thought these beings were? Did she think...
[0:25:05 - 0:25:19] ▶
Well, she... all she was all to... the only remark that she ever made was that they definitely weren't humans.
[0:25:19 - 0:25:28] ▶
There's we know humans, but they could be from another planet or the doctors were explaining this that they couldn't be from our planet.
[0:25:28 - 0:25:36] ▶
They had to be... and they had to be something else, but not in our planet.
[0:25:36 - 0:25:42] ▶
She had a phrase. She used to describe how they looked to her.
[0:25:42 - 0:25:48] ▶
Do you remember that? You were telling me a little black Chinese?
[0:25:48 - 0:25:52] ▶
Well, she said that... well, of course they were... you know, first thing she said they were black. They were just as black as they could be.
[0:25:52 - 0:25:59] ▶
But probably laying out in the elements in July and Roswell was 105 to 110 tip to her every day and 80 degrees or so at night.
[0:25:59 - 0:26:09] ▶
I mean, that's not... that wouldn't be uncommon because we picked up a lot of cheap energy people that have been found dead that's laying in the desert for days and getting marattlesnakes or whatever.
[0:26:09 - 0:26:21] ▶
And they do turn, you know, as black as they can. And I know exactly what they were talking about because...
[0:26:21 - 0:26:29] ▶
with the smell and the odor being said drastic because this is a very unpleasant situation, you know.
[0:26:29 - 0:26:36] ▶
Let's talk about their eyes. How did she describe their eyes?
[0:26:36 - 0:26:40] ▶
Well, she said that... of course their eyes were set back into the skull.
[0:26:40 - 0:26:45] ▶
Oh, and it was remarkable. I thought it was interesting also that she said their skulls. The doctor said their skull bone structure wasn't like ours. It wasn't actually a bone.
[0:26:45 - 0:26:56] ▶
It was probably a real heavy cartilage. It looked more or less like a newborn baby. The skull was very pliable. You could mash on the skull and it would, you know, it would give.
[0:26:56 - 0:27:08] ▶
And so the bone structure... it wasn't... bones were not like our bones. It was our skull and everything.
[0:27:08 - 0:27:15] ▶
What about the bones in the hands of our eyes?
[0:27:15 - 0:27:19] ▶
It said very fine, very delicate. The arm bones, they'd like the radial and the laryn in the arm that...
[0:27:19 - 0:27:25] ▶
it was so fine that you doubt if they could lift, you know, she said they doubt if they could anyone in that size and the arms of that could lift 50 pounds on the earth or anywhere else.
[0:27:25 - 0:27:35] ▶
You know, they doubted they had that strength. But she said what? The one that hadn't been...
[0:27:35 - 0:27:42] ▶
be delighted to a great extent, it reminded them of a real small H. Chinese person, no hair at all.
[0:27:42 - 0:27:51] ▶
In a very, very delicate skin. In fact, they said the skin would look like they could almost see through it, almost transparent.
[0:27:51 - 0:28:02] ▶
Why don't you give me a paragraph on the ears and the rhinoceros?
[0:28:03 - 0:28:08] ▶
Well, the ears, like I think I stated to you that the ears... there was a couple of small orphuses one on top of the other with two little lobe flaps one over the other.
[0:28:08 - 0:28:20] ▶
They didn't really know how those... if they had any significance, how they worked or what. They wasn't... I mean, they didn't go into that.
[0:28:20 - 0:28:28] ▶
The nose was only a couple of very small orphuses, holds right there just about the lip line.
[0:28:28 - 0:28:35] ▶
But it had... there was anything covering it. And it was just like two small indentations there. And that was it.
[0:28:35 - 0:28:44] ▶
So it was very unusual.
[0:28:44 - 0:28:47] ▶
Was anyone else... Don? Do you have anything to say about the hands?
[0:28:47 - 0:28:53] ▶
Yeah. The hands... well, there was one hand. There was one hand that evidently that wasn't attached to the arm.
[0:28:53 - 0:29:05] ▶
And she said that where she got second left the room was that this doctor had the long force to pick the hand up and turn it over.
[0:29:05 - 0:29:12] ▶
And that's when they noticed... there wasn't any thumb. None of them had... none of the bodies had any thumbs or anything.
[0:29:12 - 0:29:19] ▶
They were just long, very fine, very delicate fingers. No fingernails.
[0:29:19 - 0:29:26] ▶
But right at the tip of each finger, right at the tip of each finger, it looked like there was a pad.
[0:29:26 - 0:29:32] ▶
And in this pad, it looked like it might have had very small little... they were like little suction cups, very benign suction cups.
[0:29:32 - 0:29:39] ▶
The doctors, that's where he explained it. That was looking at it.
[0:29:39 - 0:29:44] ▶
Let's see. Take two right now.
[0:29:44 - 0:29:46] ▶
We need to get the arm as well.
[0:29:46 - 0:29:48] ▶
Okay, yes. I know that. We need to pull about the arm.
[0:29:48 - 0:29:51] ▶
In the magazine we publish. And with the hands of the tips of the...
[0:29:52 - 0:29:56] ▶
Maybe you can get a copy of them.
[0:29:56 - 0:29:57] ▶
I think so in your copy, that's the happy tip.
[0:29:57 - 0:29:59] ▶
It all fits together. This thing is...
[0:30:01 - 0:30:04] ▶
Obviously, you would know about your information.
[0:30:04 - 0:30:08] ▶
We'll see. I've never discussed this with anyone.
[0:30:08 - 0:30:12] ▶
My father was the only person I ever really ever discussed.
[0:30:12 - 0:30:15] ▶
I didn't discuss it at the funeral when we were in the nest.
[0:30:15 - 0:30:17] ▶
I never discussed it with any of my family, period.
[0:30:17 - 0:30:20] ▶
I never have until... I met Stan Freeman two years ago.
[0:30:20 - 0:30:25] ▶
That's the first time I ever discussed it.
[0:30:25 - 0:30:27] ▶
Would you have an interest in some dubs of testimony that we get from other people here?
[0:30:27 - 0:30:31] ▶
Well, I'd love to. Yeah, but I'd like to...
[0:30:31 - 0:30:34] ▶
I'd like to have a tape of mine also if you...
[0:30:34 - 0:30:37] ▶
Maybe you can send you two one for a change.
[0:30:39 - 0:30:41] ▶
My daughter says, you know, I want a tape of this, and I want to keep it.
[0:30:41 - 0:30:45] ▶
You know, and I want it in the family.
[0:30:45 - 0:30:47] ▶
Well, we'll make you up...
[0:30:47 - 0:30:49] ▶
Yeah, I would love to, you know, whatever...
[0:30:49 - 0:30:51] ▶
If you guys feel comfortable, I'd love to, you know, have some tapes of whatever, you know.
[0:30:51 - 0:30:56] ▶
I've got quite a few that we can probably run off.
[0:30:57 - 0:31:00] ▶
You have VHS or beta machine?
[0:31:00 - 0:31:03] ▶
I'll see, too, that we get some dubs of other people's interviews.
[0:31:03 - 0:31:06] ▶
I just go to K-Mart and wherever and by the...
[0:31:06 - 0:31:09] ▶
I think I have a tape going on.
[0:31:09 - 0:31:11] ▶
Why don't we start with the...
[0:31:11 - 0:31:13] ▶
Well, he talked about the hands of...
[0:31:13 - 0:31:15] ▶
For continuity, might be good to go to the bar.
[0:31:15 - 0:31:17] ▶
This will all be edited in any way, but we can start wherever you like.
[0:31:17 - 0:31:20] ▶
We'll start with the arms, okay?
[0:31:20 - 0:31:23] ▶
See if he was ready.
[0:31:29 - 0:31:32] ▶
But you were asking me to describe the arms,
[0:31:35 - 0:31:39] ▶
and this was another thing that did lead to it right out,
[0:31:39 - 0:31:43] ▶
The difference between there and ours,
[0:31:46 - 0:31:49] ▶
from the wrist to the first joint here,
[0:31:50 - 0:31:54] ▶
that it was probably one and a half times longer
[0:31:54 - 0:31:57] ▶
than the top port up here.
[0:31:57 - 0:32:00] ▶
It was very odd looking.
[0:32:00 - 0:32:02] ▶
It was very odd, she said.
[0:32:02 - 0:32:04] ▶
Then the very small, very small arms, very small.
[0:32:04 - 0:32:13] ▶
Of course, I asked her about the bones,
[0:32:15 - 0:32:19] ▶
because we were talking about the wrist bones and everything,
[0:32:19 - 0:32:22] ▶
and she said it was very similar to ours,
[0:32:22 - 0:32:24] ▶
but the bones were so small that...
[0:32:24 - 0:32:26] ▶
The third bone was probably one and the other one,
[0:32:26 - 0:32:28] ▶
wasn't any larger than my finger.
[0:32:28 - 0:32:31] ▶
Okay, now give me two or three sentences on how they were dressed.
[0:32:34 - 0:32:38] ▶
We never mentioned it.
[0:32:39 - 0:32:40] ▶
Never talked about the dress.
[0:32:40 - 0:32:42] ▶
Did she say anything about the sex?
[0:32:42 - 0:32:44] ▶
She said she really married.
[0:32:45 - 0:32:47] ▶
She was so sick and everything,
[0:32:47 - 0:32:49] ▶
that never even mattered her mind.
[0:32:49 - 0:32:52] ▶
No way to determine the sex of the beings then.
[0:32:54 - 0:32:57] ▶
Well, it wasn't discussed with her.
[0:32:57 - 0:33:00] ▶
It probably was, but she...
[0:33:00 - 0:33:02] ▶
Like she said, I was so ill and so horrified that...
[0:33:02 - 0:33:06] ▶
She said up all night,
[0:33:09 - 0:33:11] ▶
and she knew I was going to be real concerned
[0:33:11 - 0:33:13] ▶
you I was going to be on what happened, you know.
[0:33:13 - 0:33:16] ▶
She knew that I got in trouble probably,
[0:33:16 - 0:33:19] ▶
and she drew that, you know,
[0:33:19 - 0:33:21] ▶
she set up and made a little notes
[0:33:21 - 0:33:24] ▶
on the back of these little prescription pads,
[0:33:24 - 0:33:26] ▶
and that's what she had her notes made out,
[0:33:26 - 0:33:29] ▶
and that's what we discussed, particularly what she had.
[0:33:29 - 0:33:32] ▶
I was very interested in that you had kept so many records
[0:33:32 - 0:33:36] ▶
of the incident and pertaining to everything
[0:33:36 - 0:33:39] ▶
that you know regarding the UFO correction.
[0:33:39 - 0:33:42] ▶
And you kept them there at Valorant,
[0:33:42 - 0:33:45] ▶
and then later they disappeared.
[0:33:45 - 0:33:47] ▶
Did you give us a sense?
[0:33:47 - 0:33:49] ▶
Well, I was really in charge of all the military contracts.
[0:33:49 - 0:33:53] ▶
I did all the bids and everything,
[0:33:53 - 0:33:55] ▶
and really took care of all the contracts myself.
[0:33:55 - 0:33:58] ▶
And that was one of my duties at FUNOM to take care of the military.
[0:33:58 - 0:34:04] ▶
And I had a file, I had a file on everything that ever happened
[0:34:04 - 0:34:07] ▶
like Bob Hope and different,
[0:34:09 - 0:34:12] ▶
some of the big orchestras,
[0:34:12 - 0:34:13] ▶
and everybody had come and had the big parties and everything,
[0:34:13 - 0:34:15] ▶
and the hangars, you know, I attended,
[0:34:15 - 0:34:17] ▶
but I would also have pictures and everything.
[0:34:17 - 0:34:19] ▶
I had a personal file that I kept.
[0:34:19 - 0:34:22] ▶
And I kept everything in this file
[0:34:22 - 0:34:24] ▶
that pertained that I attended or whatever.
[0:34:24 - 0:34:29] ▶
And this is where I put the diagrams
[0:34:29 - 0:34:32] ▶
and the notes that she gave me was in my personal file.
[0:34:32 - 0:34:35] ▶
Well, then the Valorant FUNOM sold,
[0:34:35 - 0:34:38] ▶
had a later date, several years later,
[0:34:38 - 0:34:41] ▶
and the people that bought the FUNOM,
[0:34:43 - 0:34:46] ▶
these were files, they were the old files
[0:34:46 - 0:34:49] ▶
that they kept in the basement down in the furnace room.
[0:34:49 - 0:34:54] ▶
And they had all the military files together in one filing cap,
[0:34:54 - 0:35:00] ▶
and everything that happened at the base and everything.
[0:35:00 - 0:35:02] ▶
We also had the contract at Fort Sumner Air Base,
[0:35:02 - 0:35:05] ▶
they had a glider base there,
[0:35:05 - 0:35:07] ▶
and also a fighter pilot training there,
[0:35:07 - 0:35:11] ▶
and a P-47 and a 51 and so on.
[0:35:11 - 0:35:15] ▶
And so I had all the files.
[0:35:15 - 0:35:17] ▶
Everything was one filing cabinet,
[0:35:17 - 0:35:19] ▶
it was strictly all military,
[0:35:19 - 0:35:21] ▶
and that's where I had all this file away.
[0:35:21 - 0:35:23] ▶
I had all this file away.
[0:35:23 - 0:35:25] ▶
I even had the newspaper that Walter Haught,
[0:35:25 - 0:35:27] ▶
the headlines, and all this.
[0:35:27 - 0:35:29] ▶
The next day I had all that in this file.
[0:35:29 - 0:35:32] ▶
What interests me is that I've always filed.
[0:35:32 - 0:35:35] ▶
I was different topic.
[0:35:35 - 0:35:36] ▶
Only one was missing when he went to look for it,
[0:35:36 - 0:35:38] ▶
and that was one pertaining to this.
[0:35:38 - 0:35:40] ▶
Can you review that for us?
[0:35:40 - 0:35:42] ▶
Well, no, there were some of the other files
[0:35:42 - 0:35:44] ▶
were missing also, not just my own file,
[0:35:44 - 0:35:47] ▶
but my file was in the same,
[0:35:47 - 0:35:50] ▶
yeah, all of my files, my file was gone.
[0:35:50 - 0:35:55] ▶
But there was also some files.
[0:35:55 - 0:35:58] ▶
They actually had destroyed most of the files
[0:35:58 - 0:36:02] ▶
that were pertaining after certain years,
[0:36:02 - 0:36:04] ▶
they just got rid of them.
[0:36:04 - 0:36:06] ▶
And they told the manager,
[0:36:06 - 0:36:08] ▶
if you know him, that the manager there,
[0:36:08 - 0:36:10] ▶
named Raymond Otero, also told me that he knew my file was there.
[0:36:10 - 0:36:14] ▶
Joe Lucas, that was the manager at that time,
[0:36:14 - 0:36:18] ▶
knew my files were there.
[0:36:18 - 0:36:20] ▶
And he and I had had some personal problems,
[0:36:20 - 0:36:23] ▶
and he said, get rid of his damn files.
[0:36:23 - 0:36:27] ▶
We don't have anything to remind us of him.
[0:36:27 - 0:36:30] ▶
That's where the files weren't really.
[0:36:30 - 0:36:33] ▶
There was some discussion about how to preserve the bodies.
[0:36:33 - 0:36:36] ▶
Dry eyes and that sort of thing.
[0:36:38 - 0:36:40] ▶
Oh, well, they got the eyes and things.
[0:36:40 - 0:36:42] ▶
Okay, then the Marchouar software,
[0:36:42 - 0:36:47] ▶
what would you do if you had to ship one out?
[0:36:47 - 0:36:51] ▶
But you couldn't do anything to it.
[0:36:51 - 0:36:54] ▶
And you know, do any treatments,
[0:36:54 - 0:36:56] ▶
I said the only thing you could do
[0:36:57 - 0:36:59] ▶
that I would suggest that first thing,
[0:36:59 - 0:37:01] ▶
if you have a problem,
[0:37:01 - 0:37:03] ▶
don't want to destroy any blood cells,
[0:37:03 - 0:37:06] ▶
anything that you don't want to destroy,
[0:37:06 - 0:37:08] ▶
I would suggest that you contact the pathologist.
[0:37:08 - 0:37:11] ▶
And I said, I'm sure the Army airfield,
[0:37:11 - 0:37:15] ▶
I mean, somebody's got some pathologists around.
[0:37:15 - 0:37:18] ▶
I didn't know that they had one in Rosal.
[0:37:18 - 0:37:20] ▶
But I said, if I were you,
[0:37:20 - 0:37:22] ▶
the pathologist and ask him what,
[0:37:22 - 0:37:25] ▶
how he would like to have it done,
[0:37:25 - 0:37:27] ▶
or whatever you're going to do, or whatever it is,
[0:37:27 - 0:37:30] ▶
you better do what the pathologist,
[0:37:30 - 0:37:32] ▶
because he's the one that's going to do the autopsy
[0:37:32 - 0:37:34] ▶
and make the reports.
[0:37:34 - 0:37:35] ▶
But I said the only thing I know you could do
[0:37:35 - 0:37:37] ▶
is just go to the clarity of the air
[0:37:37 - 0:37:39] ▶
and sense it, cream, maybe at two at the time.
[0:37:39 - 0:37:42] ▶
And by all the dry eyes you can,
[0:37:42 - 0:37:43] ▶
and pack them in dry eyes if that's possible.
[0:37:43 - 0:37:47] ▶
And that's what I suggested they do.
[0:37:47 - 0:37:50] ▶
And I've glimmed your head and my mic with your thumb.
[0:37:50 - 0:37:53] ▶
Oh, sorry about that.
[0:37:53 - 0:37:55] ▶
I don't know, at least take times
[0:37:57 - 0:37:59] ▶
or another sweet person like this.
[0:37:59 - 0:38:01] ▶
I think as a suggestion,
[0:38:05 - 0:38:07] ▶
you might want to do that part again
[0:38:07 - 0:38:08] ▶
if you can give it to you because dry eyes
[0:38:08 - 0:38:10] ▶
you probably hit it just a few times.
[0:38:10 - 0:38:12] ▶
Oh, sorry about that.
[0:38:12 - 0:38:15] ▶
When did that take two 30 years?
[0:38:17 - 0:38:20] ▶
Let's go back and go over the dry eyes.
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What I suggested that the more to the more to the more to the off,
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so I suggested this to the more to the off-strap.
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And we discussed this problem for 20 minutes and better
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And I said, I kept telling him, hey, you know,
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if you have a problem, if you've got something out there,
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if you need our services, we have the contract,
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I would be glad to come out and help you take care of it.
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And he said, no, this is for future.
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You kept always referring this for future use
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in case we did have something.
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But then I said, well, you know,
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first thing you better do, you better get a hold of a pathologist.
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I don't know whether you have one at the base.
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I don't, but I know you probably have the top pathologist, you know.
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Something similar to those words.
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And I said, that's what I'd do.
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And you better let him give you the instructions.
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And then you better do what he tells you to do,
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because he's one's going to do the autopsy.
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And you know, if that's, if it's this sensitive,
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you better do what he tells you.
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But I said, the only other suggestion I can make
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that you go to clarity's area or you go to the sense that creamery
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by all the dry ice you can and pack whatever you have,
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whatever the problem is, you better pack it and dry ice
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and then do whatever you have to do with it.
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Because that's only way.
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They tried to put it in the morgue.
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Out the morgue, they had two refrigerated body compartments
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that we used to put them in and then we'd go out and get the bodies
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But they always brought the airmen to us
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but on the dependence and everything we went out for them.
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But they weren't cold enough and it became so offensive.
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They were afraid they were going to, you know,
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we were going to upset everybody in the hospital.
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So they later moved them over to a hangar.
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And that's the last that she knew anything about them
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to the lieutenant knew anything about them.
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But she didn't know how they moved or anything about it.
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But they were taken to a hangar.
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Because the other was so offensive they couldn't,
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they'd likely said it was upsetting everything.
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Did she tell you where she thought or where she was told
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the bodies went for Roswell?
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Did you know where they were shipped out?
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Did you know where they went?
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She never mentioned any, no suggestion whatsoever.
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She just said that the last she heard they were in a hangar
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and that's all she knows.
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And we never discussed anything else.
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I guess if that takes care of her,
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or in the language you like to watch it,
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what is the portion of just that?
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Get an idea you don't need to watch the whole thing.
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Let's turn around and watch it.
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Do you know what the...
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