3,656 segments
I'm here with my documentary hero, James Fox.
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And I'm a US film maker, James Fox.
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This message goes out to whoever's piloting UFOs,
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providing your presence as friendly, which it appears to be.
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Reveal yourself soon so my friends and family will stop thinking I'm crazy
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for chasing the elusive UFOs.
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This is James Fox signing out.
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Who's made an incredible, I think seven documentaries at this point.
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Yeah, it's like six and a half or seven because I did a couple of versions of out of the blue.
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So I count that as almost two, but it's at least one and a half because I spent another two and a half years completely revamping it.
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So I did 50 years of denial, then it was out of the blue, out of the blue, director's cut.
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I know what I saw, the phenomenon, moment of contact. Shoot.
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I guess this will well, and the program, which is coming out.
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We just had this amazing screening last night with how I put off of all people who's a star of the documentary itself.
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Our detection platforms are so well advanced so we could see a lot more.
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Then it really is a zoo of options and possibilities.
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And it's just incredible.
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And so I hope you're very proud of it.
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And I know this has been a long slog many decades for you.
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I feel lucky to kind of ride the coattails, you know, kind of draft aerodynamically behind people like you.
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So I'm very grateful to you and thank you for.
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And I love seeing younger people that new generation recognizing how significant the story is.
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It's, it's, it's, you know, I used to often ask people when I was first started out, they'd go, you know, you don't actually believe in this shit.
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They literally would say that to me.
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They'd say, well, let me ask you if it were true.
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And I'm not telling you to believe that it's true.
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But if it were, how significant of a story would you give it?
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And everybody says, be the biggest story in history.
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I was like, well, I'm convinced it's happening.
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So it's not a story that's easily just dropped.
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Kind of changes everything totally from math, science, physics, to religion, to everything.
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And it's interesting. I was with Danny Shean, as you know, your friends with him as well, just interviewed him.
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And he was talking about the root of the word religion is relegare, relegare, which means to relink.
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The Latin root of religion is relegare, which is like to relink.
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And so in some ways, I think what you're doing is relinking us to our true kind of epistemology, which is knowing that these other beings might exist.
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And maybe in the past, we did know that.
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And we've forgotten for a very long time.
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I don't know. What do you think?
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Well, I think what's really exciting about it is that the phenomenon, I refer to, transcends politics, transcends religion, transcends borders.
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It's one of the few topics that is really encouraging to see both Democrats and Republicans working together on it.
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And I hope this is just the beginning of many more hearings and more people coming forward about this.
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We should have disclosure today. We should have disclosure tomorrow. The time has come.
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And that really excites me because we're living such polarized times.
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So to see that, and for people to recognize, like, this is bigger than all of us.
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This is potentially has something to do with the bigger picture of who we are and are placing the universe and are very existence.
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So it's very exciting. I mean, people ask me like, do you think it's scary? I'm like, no, I don't think it's scary at all.
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Yeah, I think it trivializes our differences.
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And in many ways, I think people always worry about it sort of debunking or overthrowing religion.
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I think it reinforces religion.
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I think if you actually look at a lot of biblical stories, that stuff becomes a lot more real and less mythical.
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I think in some ways, it's reinforcing and this sort of Cold War era kind of low energy thinking of like, you know, we can't accept this truth.
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Might just not make sense. In fact, it might actually re-enchant us.
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I interviewed a theologian at Berkeley named Ted Peters way back from my first film.
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UFOs 50 years of denial because everyone was like, well, it conflicts with religion.
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And he's like, no, it doesn't. And he gave, of course, he's a theologian at Berkeley.
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And he's also like part of the science, you know, science and theology at Berkeley University.
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So he's like, there's room for both. And there's room for all God's creation.
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We're just part of a much bigger picture. And I thought that was because I thought that was an important aspect of accepting the phenomenon.
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I mean, if a freight of it or assuming that it was demonic, or just because we can't explain it doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it or doesn't mean that, you know, totally.
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And all religions, there are beings between man and God in the consciousness chain, so to speak.
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Well, I mean, gosh, you think about it. Imagine cavemen watched a flying saucer descend out of the sky. They probably think of them of gods, you know.
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We're thinking about us landing in, you know, North Sentinel Island or French Polynesia back in the day. You know, it's like, what are these things? What's going on?
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So, well, yeah, it's, I'm so excited to be here. I don't even know where to start. I mean, there's so many jumping off points. But how did you get into, guess, UFOs to begin with?
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So I had a really good friend, Sky Renee Harris and in high school. And we, when we, when we graduated in 18, we, we flew to Europe.
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We bought an old beat up Fiat 131 in London. And we painted the doors. We wanted to kind of spice up a little bit. So we painted the doors red and the rest of the volume was white.
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And we're all, we're going to take this car. We're going to drive it all the way down to Portugal. And I remember my aunt was thinking, oh my god, these guys aren't going to make it to the, to the chat with the English channel.
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And so we drove across Europe together in this old Fiat 131 and just had a wonderful time and, and I was like six weeks across Europe. And then he flew home a little early and I stayed on. And we read, we just kind of.
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You know, life happens and we just kind of lost contact for a couple of years. And then I came back and we reconnected when I was like 23. And he was all into like UFOs and alien spaceships and Roswell.
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And I remember thinking to myself, God, what a bummer, man. I'm going to lose one of my best friends. I'm going to have to cut this guy loose because he's clearly lost his mind. I'm serious. I was, I was, what a bummer.
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I was like, this is such a bummer. It was like one of my closest friends, you know. And so I was like, lamenting about it at the work. I was a, I was a, kind of a go for a production facility in San Francisco. And there was a guy that was my boss Richard van Sickle. And I said, Richard, and I really looked up to him. He's very smart and really just educated really great guy.
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So Richard, I was just my buddy and man, I'm going to have to cut him loose. He's just all into like this UFOs he's talking about and he's talking that an alien spaceship crashed in Roswell. And I was expecting to go, oh my gosh, thank God. You have cut that. He goes, James, you haven't heard about that.
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You haven't heard about Roswell. I was like, well, how would I know I haven't heard about Roswell? He goes, yeah, the US government actually admitted that they recovered. I said, really?
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So I started like looking into it reluctantly. And I thought, wow, there's something going on.
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I want to know what's going on. Would you ever open up Roswell? Let us know what's really going on.
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So many people asked me that question. I know it sounds almost ridiculous, but it's actually the real question.
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I don't want to. I like a cute question, but it's actually there are millions and millions of people that want to go there, that want to see it.
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I won't talk to you about what I know about it, but it's very interesting. But Roswell is a very interesting place with a lot of people that would like to know what's going on.
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Yeah, so I went to a few conferences. I met some military folks. And I thought, I think I'm going to make a documentary on UFOs.
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I remember my dad, it was a mainstream journalist and he was like, son, you have lost your marbles.
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You got to reconsider. He said it's a dead end street. It's not going anywhere. Don't waste your time.
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And of course that drove me even hurt maybe even for you. And so I stuck my teeth into it and I made my first doc.
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It's interesting, too. It's like people on the outside looking at UFOs often just assume there's nothing there.
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But I think the second you like take it's like almost like a weekend taking it a little more seriously.
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You start to gather probably enough data even in that week to make your like probability that there's something there is something here where the investigation like it becomes very clear.
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Like pretty quickly actually once you kind of flip looks like that we have a problem here that needs further investigation.
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Yes. Okay, so I remember when I was 19 I was dating this girl Rachel Miller and she was a year older than me.
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And she goes, oh, my previous boyfriend was really into UFOs. And I remember immediately like just like going, why would she date a freak?
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It was like what it really kind of affected my thinking about her judgment and like who she was as a person. I was thinking to myself gosh.
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But how was that sort of impregnated in me? Why was that? Why did I have that knee jerk response?
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You know what I mean? I was like sort of thinking about as I learned more about the phenomenon and the relationship between the government and the phenomenon.
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You know, the Robertson panel in 1953 adopted this policy of ridicule and it was very effective campaign and it stuck.
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The Robertson panel was a scientific committee which met in January 1953 headed by Howard P. Robertson.
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The panel arose from a recommendation to the Intelligence Advisory Committee in December 1952 from a Central Intelligence Agency review of the US Air Force investigation into unidentified flying objects, Project Blue Book.
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And that was a classified document for anybody who thinks that was some sort of sia or whatever. That was supposed to be classified and came out later.
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Yeah. And it was let's systematically downplay UFOs through media books, movies, everything.
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Because what's funny about a pilot claiming to see something that he can't explain? That's actually should be of concern.
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Yes. Some of them appeared to remain stationary and wins a loft, move against the wind, maneuver abruptly or move at considerable speed without discernible means of propulsion.
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That's pretty intriguing.
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I mean, you're picking up something on radar, you're seeing it visually, the tower has got it and yet this policy of ridicule and laughter just really stuck.
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It was a very effective, I have to hand it to them. It was very effective campaign.
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And it was kind of in some ways the constitution for Blue Book. Like it became the mandate for them to, you know, swamp gas and the lights and whatever, you know, easy ways to rationalize, explain a way, you know, what was actually going on.
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And I think there's actually this 1971 document that came out of Australia from the joint intelligence organization by their head of their nuclear division named Harry Turner.
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Between 1952 and 1963, the British government conducted nuclear tests in Australia, including the Montabello Islands, Mara Linga and Emo Field.
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During this period, young physicist Harry Turner observed an investigated mysterious phenomena that he believed were unidentified anomalous phenomena.
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His experiences led him to advocate for serious and thorough investigation of UFOs.
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And he's doing this whole retrospective on American inquiries and anti-gravity UFOs. And he basically makes the case that there's this cleavage almost where the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence splits off and they're studying the real stuff.
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And then you have the Air Force and Blue Book and it's just this kind of fake sham, you know, understaffed job.
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So I remember a Jacques talking about a document that he accidentally found in the files of Dr. Jalen Hainek, who was a scientific advisor to Project Blue Book.
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In my association with Project Blue Book, I know very well that it was not a scientific project.
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Also, I also know that they never, never would notify the media when an interesting case came up. Everything they could to keep it down.
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So they definitely withheld information.
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And Jacques worked with Dr. Hainek. And I guess Hainek was asking him to help organize his files and he came, Jacques Felle, came upon a file of a document that was classified that he shouldn't have seen.
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That basically talked about this, a program that paralleled Project Blue Book, but it was way underground, way more funding, way better scientists, all these things.
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The document revealed an ultra secret, highly funded scientific investigation, working parallel to Blue Book, unknown to all, but a select few.
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The letter was signed by H. C. Cross, director of exotic metallurgy at the tell national laboratories, which he ultimately got publicly released for.
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We featured it in the phenomenon, but it was a parallel effort that had just gone underground.
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Do we know anybody involved in that effort?
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It's in the phenomenon and I don't know if there are any particular names. They're probably were. I'd have to look back. It's been a few years since I've seen the document.
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But basically the implication was there was a very well funded panel of eminent scientists that were involved and that Project Blue Book was just a dog and pony show.
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The phenomenon, by the way, is an incredible movie and I want to say half my friends got converted into believing into you have posed from that movie.
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It's just so comprehensive and detail oriented.
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Yeah, I remember that part of that movie and then I interviewed Jacques and I think I had forgotten that there was a deeper program than Blue Book.
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There was a deeper program that the Air Force had around this stuff.
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They had a real project going on that was secret.
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Oh, I didn't know that.
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And in this Australian document, they do mention Freeman Dyson Edward Teller, head of the H-Bong, Robert Oppenheimer's mentioned John Wheeler.
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So guys who are, we just made $130 million movie on Oppenheimer.
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It would be mind blowing if he was part of any of the UFO stuff.
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And there's a book called by William Steinman called UFO Crash about the Aztec Crash Retrieval.
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They say Oppenheimer was part of the retrieval team.
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It wouldn't surprise me because if these accounts are true and of course I believe they are of these Crash Retrieval accounts, you'd want the best minds.
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You would need the best minds.
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You'd need the best minds.
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Yeah, of course you would.
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And you have these weird, so Oppenheimer was facing this kangaroo court.
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It's documented in the Nolan movie.
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You know, supposedly the kangaroo court was around his sympathies for the communists or whatever.
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Shmoosing with socialists in the 30s and 40s, whatever.
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But there's a theory out there that maybe it was actually around UFOs.
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And so the head of the kangaroo court was a guy named Gordon Gray, who knows whether the...
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MJ-12, Majestic-12 stuff is real.
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You know, the dubious kind of origins is you're very aware of.
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But if it was, Gordon Gray was on the Majestic-12.
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MJ-12 or Magic-12 or Majestic.
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This document is easily the most controversial in UFO circles.
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It is supposedly a briefing document prepared in 1952 for President-Elect Dwight Eisenhower,
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explaining that a secret group of scientists and military men had been created by President Truman to study the UFO situation and to keep a lid on it.
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And so the guy who might have been on Truman's official UFO panel Eisenhower's official UFO advisory team
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is heading up the kangaroo court, basically stripping Oppenheimer of his Q clearance.
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And there's some very weird quotes in that transcript as well.
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It's online now, and you have Von Neumann defending Oppenheimer saying,
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don't blame him too much.
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It took him a while to accommodate to the new Buck Rogers universe that we're living in.
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So it's like weird stuff like that.
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Why are you referencing Buck Rogers?
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Yeah, space travel to that crowd.
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Strange stuff like that.
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And then an Oppenheimer keeps saying a lot happened between 45 and 49.
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He keeps saying that.
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And when did all the crashes happen?
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A lot of the crashes happen, 45 and 49.
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And if it were really about, you know, leakages in the Manhattan project or socialist sympathies or whatever,
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that would be 41 through 45.
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It wouldn't have anything to do it.
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Well, you know, it's funny because people often ask me, because I've had a net.
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I've been, I'm actually quite skeptical.
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A lot of the cases that I've reported on over the years, I didn't believe when I first heard about them.
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I didn't believe Roswell.
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Why would I believe Roswell?
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Vanalean spaceship crashed and live aliens were recovered.
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How do you cover something like that up with the level of involvement with all the different military folks?
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You know, that's, that was the skeptic in me going, this is impossible, right?
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One of the things I've learned over the years, over the decades, is to suspend judgment.
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At least listen to the testimony and review the evidence because I have that knee jerk reaction of, that's impossible.
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It's good you have that.
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Because I think you wouldn't be where you are if you just, if your knee jerk reaction was credulousness,
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you just believed everything.
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You know, I think, I think it adds an element of trust for people when they watch your movies.
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I think of like, okay, well, that old expression, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence is, you know, that's, that's a legitimate and that's understandable, right?
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But I think of it in a sense of, all right, if I'm going to report on a particular incident, let's say it's a landing case, Australia in 1966, West all,
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I feel like my job as a filmmaker is to sway a jury.
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And I'm not trying to manipulate anybody or anything, but I want to put forth the right evidence to like, let the jury know, beyond a reasonable doubt that something like this did occur, right?
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So I'm always thinking about my films as a presented to a jury or let's say I got a skeptic in the crowd.
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I'm going to cater to that skeptic.
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That's what I'm thinking the whole time when I'm making a film like if I'm going to report on a landing case, I better have a pretty compelling story.
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Most while I witness testimony, things of that nature, then it like, then I started to report on not just landings, but people, you know, reporting beans associated and connected to the craft.
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That's a slippery slope, right?
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Particularly when I, you know, I remember when I did the phenomenon, I got that really big break and I got an interview with Senator Reed, former Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid.
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And he wouldn't sign off on the film, I'm playing him.
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He wouldn't sign off on the movie until after he could see it, right?
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Well, I had, excuse me, an alleged landing case in Ruiz, in Bobway, 1994, where roughly, you know, there were 66 school children reported.
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There were 100 school children in the playground when it happened.
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We saw this like a silver thing down there.
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It was a silver oval thing that flew past really slowly.
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I saw the bigger one and a spaceship like four or five of them.
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There was red, green and yellow.
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There was this big ship.
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It had these lights, these patterns and the flu.
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And a lot of them reporting these little entities and then there's telepathic communication with these little entities.
[0:20:08 - 0:20:13] ▶
And I was like, well, I'm just in the movie that Senator Reed is in.
[0:20:13 - 0:20:16] ▶
I'm like, he's going to take a look at this movie and go take me out, right?
[0:20:16 - 0:20:19] ▶
But I wanted to do it in a way where I had that skeptic in the crowd or I'm presenting my case to a jury.
[0:20:20 - 0:20:26] ▶
And that's how I think about it when I'm editing films.
[0:20:26 - 0:20:29] ▶
I'm not catering to people that already know about the phenomenon.
[0:20:30 - 0:20:33] ▶
Of course, I want them to enjoy it too, for obvious reasons.
[0:20:33 - 0:20:36] ▶
But I'm thinking about that skeptic.
[0:20:36 - 0:20:38] ▶
I'm thinking about the one that's constantly accusing the phenomenon is only having anecdotal evidence.
[0:20:38 - 0:20:44] ▶
Well, excuse me, there's so much more than anecdotal evidence beyond so much more.
[0:20:44 - 0:20:49] ▶
I actually think the quote, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence is massively overused when it comes to UFOs.
[0:20:50 - 0:20:57] ▶
Because I think we have extraordinary evidence.
[0:20:57 - 0:20:59] ▶
And I think the better thing is extraordinary evidence requires extraordinary investigation.
[0:20:59 - 0:21:03] ▶
And I think the other people yourself included, you know, I could name four others or something.
[0:21:04 - 0:21:08] ▶
It's like a very short list of people that are actually doing the extraordinary investigation.
[0:21:08 - 0:21:13] ▶
But we have we have we're oversaturated in data.
[0:21:13 - 0:21:15] ▶
We have an abundance of evidence.
[0:21:15 - 0:21:16] ▶
It's really about people's epistemology and Bayesian reasoning where I just got hammered for so long on that.
[0:21:16 - 0:21:23] ▶
Is that does like I got so tired of hearing that but people would say that to me all the time.
[0:21:23 - 0:21:27] ▶
And photographic radar, visual, like all these you call that anecdotal.
[0:21:27 - 0:21:32] ▶
That's not anecdotal.
[0:21:32 - 0:21:33] ▶
That's everything but having the crap in their possession.
[0:21:33 - 0:21:36] ▶
No, you are told as a kid or something.
[0:21:37 - 0:21:39] ▶
And you're putting it a priori in this bucket of not real.
[0:21:40 - 0:21:44] ▶
And you have to admit that at a certain point.
[0:21:45 - 0:21:47] ▶
If you actually sat down, you were locked in a classroom and you were shown slides of these very real artifacts.
[0:21:47 - 0:21:52] ▶
All of which you've uncovered, you'd have to come out being like, okay, my base case is there's something real here.
[0:21:52 - 0:21:57] ▶
And then we have to investigate, figure out how to classify it.
[0:21:57 - 0:22:00] ▶
It's called the phenomena because it's hard to classify but there's something going on.
[0:22:00 - 0:22:04] ▶
So yeah, I'm with you.
[0:22:04 - 0:22:06] ▶
It's global, it's ubiquitous, it's like people would say to me like, well, what conclusions have you drawn from all the years?
[0:22:06 - 0:22:16] ▶
And because I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm probably not going to know what's really going on.
[0:22:16 - 0:22:22] ▶
I'm probably not going to ever get the full picture, right?
[0:22:22 - 0:22:24] ▶
I mean, maybe, but I doubt it.
[0:22:25 - 0:22:27] ▶
Maybe you're taking on a craft and giving it down the road.
[0:22:29 - 0:22:32] ▶
But, but you know, one of the summaries I would give that I feel quite comfortable, the conclusion that I have reached is that the phenomenon is, has the ability to manifest itself.
[0:22:32 - 0:22:45] ▶
It's ubiquitous and it can manifest itself in like a physical form, like technologically, like an engineered craft.
[0:22:45 - 0:22:53] ▶
But also has a psychic ability as well.
[0:22:54 - 0:22:57] ▶
I remember interviewing this guy who was a former, I think he was a Northwest Airlines, Northwest.
[0:22:57 - 0:23:04] ▶
Anyway, he's just, he's actually in Arizona and he, just a real honest, sincere, sultan earth character that was a pilot and had an incredible experience.
[0:23:04 - 0:23:20] ▶
And he goes, he goes, oh, there's something else.
[0:23:20 - 0:23:27] ▶
And I said, well, what is it?
[0:23:27 - 0:23:29] ▶
And he goes, oh, I can't, I can't tell you.
[0:23:29 - 0:23:32] ▶
And I could tell he was like, he knew how ridiculous what he was about to say sounded, you know, because he's a very pragmatic guy and just a grounded pilot, you know, commercial pilot.
[0:23:32 - 0:23:43] ▶
And I said, no, give it to me, you know, tell me, I found, you know, the new party goes, I talked to me.
[0:23:44 - 0:23:52] ▶
Yeah, he was a, it was a Northwest Airlines.
[0:23:52 - 0:23:55] ▶
I'm sorry, I'm trying to remember the name, but yeah, you said that.
[0:23:55 - 0:23:59] ▶
And that was like kind of the first time where I really started learning about the psychic nature, there are a lot of people have seen craft and had that communication.
[0:23:59 - 0:24:10] ▶
And every instant communication or beans, you know.
[0:24:10 - 0:24:14] ▶
It was like on the world, all the cheese will just go down and there will be no air and people will be dying.
[0:24:14 - 0:24:24] ▶
And those thoughts came to you, had you had those thoughts before this experience?
[0:24:24 - 0:24:29] ▶
And how did those thoughts come to you?
[0:24:31 - 0:24:35] ▶
They come to you from the craft or from the man, the man, which sounds crazy to a lot of people that don't aren't familiar with the phenomenon, but there are a lot of closing accounts of the, and I remind people, because I deal with one in the program.
[0:24:35 - 0:24:53] ▶
This is nothing new. There's been reports of closing accounts of the third kind dating back to the early 1940s and probably millennia, right?
[0:24:54 - 0:25:04] ▶
But at least modern day versions of that.
[0:25:04 - 0:25:07] ▶
And I remind people, it's like, okay, this, I know this sounds a little crazy.
[0:25:07 - 0:25:11] ▶
However, let me remind you that the very person who documented or researched UFO cases for the United States government, Dr. Heineck from 47 to 69 or 70.
[0:25:11 - 0:25:23] ▶
He's the one that coined the phrase, closing kind of the first kind, closing kind of the second kind, and closing kind of the third kind.
[0:25:23 - 0:25:30] ▶
So that's been going on for decades.
[0:25:30 - 0:25:32] ▶
Yeah, very credible reports.
[0:25:33 - 0:25:35] ▶
Can we get into the story you tell in the program of a face to face interaction?
[0:25:35 - 0:25:41] ▶
The US Air Force Master Sergeant Jason Sands was stationed at the nearby Melis Air Base with the 67th Intelligence Group at the time.
[0:25:41 - 0:25:49] ▶
This previous week, the UFO came on the range through right by what we called the schoolhouse because that's where we did the training.
[0:25:49 - 0:25:56] ▶
And it went down into the valley and continued on.
[0:25:56 - 0:26:01] ▶
So they have actual video of it.
[0:26:01 - 0:26:03] ▶
And that's what you see out there in the public. This Ellis range UFO.
[0:26:03 - 0:26:06] ▶
He won control of the new time aircraft.
[0:26:06 - 0:26:09] ▶
We have the names of the other on duty military personnel.
[0:26:12 - 0:26:17] ▶
We have a location and we have a date.
[0:26:18 - 0:26:19] ▶
I opted to report on it.
[0:26:20 - 0:26:23] ▶
Even though I don't, I can't prove that it happened.
[0:26:23 - 0:26:26] ▶
But I think it's a pretty compelling account.
[0:26:27 - 0:26:29] ▶
What's the location?
[0:26:29 - 0:26:30] ▶
It was, excuse me, um, Nellis, Nellis testing range in Nevada.
[0:26:30 - 0:26:38] ▶
I mean, you've heard, you've heard, but it doesn't not pattern match to other stories.
[0:26:42 - 0:26:47] ▶
Like, I don't know if you've ever heard of Colonel Charles Hall.
[0:26:47 - 0:26:49] ▶
I was given a clearance to allow me to go anywhere, anywhere in Dreamland.
[0:26:49 - 0:26:54] ▶
As long as I was alone.
[0:26:54 - 0:26:56] ▶
I discovered that up there at the north end of Indian Springs Valley,
[0:26:56 - 0:27:00] ▶
which you can see on the map in the state of Nevada here in America,
[0:27:00 - 0:27:05] ▶
that there was a base which the US Air Force maintained for a group of extraterrestrials
[0:27:06 - 0:27:11] ▶
who were tall and white.
[0:27:11 - 0:27:13] ▶
Similar sort of story, you know, and I guess in his case,
[0:27:14 - 0:27:17] ▶
it was more of these kind of tall, white, Nordic-looking aliens,
[0:27:17 - 0:27:21] ▶
but it was in Area 51, so, you know, probably not too far.
[0:27:21 - 0:27:25] ▶
I mean, but that's amazing.
[0:27:26 - 0:27:28] ▶
I saw a footage of three disc-shaped crafts.
[0:27:30 - 0:27:32] ▶
One of the crafts landed in two of them went away.
[0:27:32 - 0:27:34] ▶
It appeared to be in trouble because it oscillated all the way down to the ground.
[0:27:36 - 0:27:39] ▶
However, it did land on three pods.
[0:27:39 - 0:27:42] ▶
A sliding door open, a ramp was extended, and out came three aliens.
[0:27:42 - 0:27:47] ▶
I did not believe that case.
[0:27:47 - 0:27:51] ▶
What he landing at Holman and the beans came out and interact with base commanders.
[0:27:51 - 0:27:55] ▶
And those, these were Nordic beings, right?
[0:27:56 - 0:27:59] ▶
Well, they were described as like, because I actually talked to a guy,
[0:27:59 - 0:28:02] ▶
Alan Sandler, who saw the footage, or not.
[0:28:02 - 0:28:04] ▶
I mean, it's amazing.
[0:28:04 - 0:28:05] ▶
And I found that out after at least a year of knowing the guy that came out.
[0:28:05 - 0:28:10] ▶
And he said that they looked like Egyptian headwear, big noses.
[0:28:10 - 0:28:16] ▶
I think he said that the eyes were vertical, like a cat.
[0:28:16 - 0:28:20] ▶
And I try to remember to describe the skin of them, but they had like a device.
[0:28:22 - 0:28:27] ▶
But they didn't have much of a chin or a mouth.
[0:28:27 - 0:28:30] ▶
And they had a, one of them had a device that looked like what he was interpreting as a
[0:28:30 - 0:28:38] ▶
communication device of sorts.
[0:28:38 - 0:28:40] ▶
He didn't know, but that's what he said it looked like.
[0:28:40 - 0:28:43] ▶
But he goes, you know, a lot of times when I, if you want me to go into the story, I will.
[0:28:43 - 0:28:48] ▶
So, and the reason why I'll tell you this is that I did not believe what I'm about to tell you guys.
[0:28:50 - 0:28:53] ▶
And I'm sure a lot of your audience have heard of this, heard about this case.
[0:28:53 - 0:28:58] ▶
It was probably in the early 1960s, maybe 64, 65 was a 64.
[0:28:58 - 0:29:04] ▶
Yeah, I don't know these.
[0:29:04 - 0:29:06] ▶
And there was a landing case that I was investigating.
[0:29:07 - 0:29:10] ▶
It's a core new Mexico that happened April 24th, 1964.
[0:29:10 - 0:29:13] ▶
And in the process of investigating, that was one of the cases that caused Dr. Heineck to do a complete 180 on close and kind of the third kind.
[0:29:13 - 0:29:22] ▶
And I'll go back a little bit.
[0:29:23 - 0:29:25] ▶
Jacques Valle had just met with Dr. Heineck at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio in 1964.
[0:29:25 - 0:29:33] ▶
And he was telling Heineck, look, you got to look into these cases that are classified in project blue book files as psychological because those are reports of witnesses claiming to see beans connected to the craft.
[0:29:33 - 0:29:46] ▶
And I guess they're just putting them down as psychological because they're just assuming that the witnesses have lost their marbles.
[0:29:47 - 0:29:52] ▶
And so he was like, you got to look into these cases and I was like, OK, you know, he's giving some examples in France in the 50s and like literally like a week later, he gets the phone call about the landing in the corner, Mexico that involved the police officer by the name of Lonnie Zamora.
[0:29:53 - 0:30:08] ▶
So anyway, I'm really sticking my teeth into that case. I'm getting into his family is wife. I go to the National Archives, the guy wrote the book on it, Jay Ray Sanford,
[0:30:08 - 0:30:17] ▶
Squirrel, Sossar, and the Pentagon pantry.
[0:30:17 - 0:30:19] ▶
And I come across these articles in the UFO bulletin by a woman named Carau Lorenzen, excuse me if I don't pronounce her name correctly, but she was writing articles about a landing that happened at Holman right around the same time.
[0:30:19 - 0:30:35] ▶
Very, very credible reporter. She was thought in the UFO community be very credible. Like if she puts something out there, it was thoroughly researched. It was there was substance to it.
[0:30:36 - 0:30:46] ▶
So I read one article and she had I think some military officials that were interviewing there might have been anonymous and then another woman was a pilot to it's two separate articles about this landing at Holman.
[0:30:46 - 0:30:58] ▶
So that was pretty much the first credible time I'd really heard about it right because I just quickly dismissed it in the past. Well, I'm going.
[0:30:58 - 0:31:05] ▶
All right, well, I'm investigating a case, the landing case in Sikoro, Holman, it's just a stone throw away from Sikoro with where the crow flies.
[0:31:05 - 0:31:14] ▶
I believe that the creatures, you know, that that that Sikoro happened. It was the case that turned around Heineck.
[0:31:14 - 0:31:22] ▶
Why not have cameras rolling and have it happen just, you know, it white sands are all in Air Force Base, which is really close by.
[0:31:22 - 0:31:30] ▶
So I was open to it. Then I watched, I'm giving you the truncated version. I watched the documentary UFOs past President Future by M and Ager and Alan Sandler.
[0:31:30 - 0:31:42] ▶
And that talks about an event that may have happened or make or that could happen may have already happened.
[0:31:42 - 0:31:48] ▶
Or maybe it, you know, or it could happen. And I was about the landing and in Holman Air Force Base and that the beans got out and interacted with the base commanders.
[0:31:48 - 0:31:57] ▶
So I was like, huh, it's interesting. They had a when you say may have happened or could have the way they phrased it in the film.
[0:31:57 - 0:32:03] ▶
Okay, so they're being a little like, you know, truth. Yeah, it was like, you know, this might have happened already.
[0:32:03 - 0:32:09] ▶
Yeah, yeah. Or maybe it will happen a little plausible deniability. Yeah, you know, and everything else was so carefully choreographed in the movie.
[0:32:09 - 0:32:16] ▶
They had an unprecedented cooperation with active and retired military personnel going on to Air Force bases like these guys.
[0:32:16 - 0:32:24] ▶
Something was up with that movie during that time and they had unprecedented access.
[0:32:24 - 0:32:28] ▶
So anyway, so then I get in touch with the filmmakers M and Ager interview him.
[0:32:28 - 0:32:33] ▶
And he's like, yeah, that, you know, that event really happened. We were going to we were going to get the video and feature it in the film.
[0:32:33 - 0:32:41] ▶
And then the last minute they pulled it whatever. And so then I'm talking to Alan Sandler about it.
[0:32:41 - 0:32:48] ▶
And this is going on over a couple of your period. And Alan's like, well, I saw the film.
[0:32:48 - 0:32:53] ▶
Excuse me. You what? He goes, I saw the film. I said, the one at Vanderbure Air Force Base with the no, the landing at Holman.
[0:32:53 - 0:33:01] ▶
I said, you saw the film and I was driving my car. And what I do a lot of times is I, I like to close my eyes and listen to words and have those words recreate the imagery in my brain.
[0:33:01 - 0:33:11] ▶
So it's almost like I'm reliving the experience to them, right? So I pull the car over.
[0:33:11 - 0:33:16] ▶
I said, Alan, what did you see? I need every detail. Like what did it look like? He goes, well, he goes, it might have been a training video.
[0:33:16 - 0:33:26] ▶
I don't know, but it was real flying saucer. And there were three flying saucers that came in over the base.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:34] ▶
It was, I don't know what time of day, but it was, it was a daylight. And the film, there was film of three discs that are relatively high altitude coming in over the base.
[0:33:34 - 0:33:46] ▶
And then two peel away and one and they were escorted by military jets. And then one comes down. He said it was like a, like a leaf almost.
[0:33:46 - 0:33:55] ▶
He, he thought it was in trouble the way it was flying. But I've heard that description from a lot of people that it kind of flutters like floats down like that. Right. So that he described it. He said it was kind of floating. And he's like, well, it looked like it might have been in trouble, but I'm thinking to myself, that's I've heard that before.
[0:33:55 - 0:34:10] ▶
The way it's coming down. So it comes down. He goes, it landed and he goes, you know, James, it was just like a sci-fi movie. You know, those doors just open. And there's no seam or anything.
[0:34:10 - 0:34:22] ▶
He said, that's what it looked like. It opened and dropped. And then two individuals, beans, aliens, whatever you want to call them. This is according to Alan Sandler. He told me this. They came out and they flanked the stairs on other side. And then the main guy got out.
[0:34:22 - 0:34:39] ▶
And he had like a Egyptian, he described it as Egyptian. The description in the film is very similar. And being with big eyes and vertical slits tall.
[0:34:39 - 0:34:52] ▶
Egyptian hair or head gear. I don't know. Vertical eyes, vertical slits, big eyes, big nose, mouth almost nonexistent, little slit, very small chins.
[0:34:52 - 0:35:07] ▶
And came out and had a, he said he had a device that he thought was an interpretation, you know, interpreter, you know, to help communicate.
[0:35:07 - 0:35:17] ▶
And that they met with military officers and that they got into a Jeep. And then they went off. And then the film just ended with the disc just sitting there on the on the base.
[0:35:17 - 0:35:29] ▶
And Paul Sharlwood, North and Air Force based so to Tim, because Paul got a call from a guy named Colonel Colonel Coleman was a guy interviewed who was public relations at the Pentagon in the 70s. I interviewed Coleman about it.
[0:35:29 - 0:35:44] ▶
And he, yeah, his story, his recollection. But anyway, he, he had called, I guess, the debates, hey, these guys who do any documentary and UFOs, cooperate, you know, give them access, whatever, not realizing that Paul Sharlwood just processed some film of this lane in Holman.
[0:35:44 - 0:36:03] ▶
And so Paul happens to show it to Alan. And Bob wasn't there that day at North and Air Force base and men and suits either later that day or the very next morning showed up confiscated the footage and said, don't ever talk about it.
[0:36:03 - 0:36:18] ▶
And do you know who the men and seats work for?
[0:36:18 - 0:36:21] ▶
No idea. I'm just saying what he, what he told me and Paul Sharlwood, a few years later was involved in head on collision with him as wife. He was dead.
[0:36:21 - 0:36:29] ▶
And so he's gone. Paul Sharlwood did go on a TV show. You can Google it with Bob M. Nigger talking about it. Are you conspiratorial at all about the head on collision there?
[0:36:29 - 0:36:39] ▶
I mean, it's a bummer. Definitely a bummer. Yeah. But no. And then Alan didn't tell Bob M. Nigger. And then I, when Alan told me I actually got video footage of it somewhere. I did a, and Bob's dead now, Bob M. Nigger's dead. But I did a standard interview with Bob M. Nigger.
[0:36:39 - 0:36:56] ▶
This craft came in. There were three of them. One of them wobbled down to the ground and landed. And apparently the base was alerted to it and went out to meet it.
[0:36:56 - 0:37:08] ▶
And this craft door opened in three normal looking. Another were normal looking, but short five foot high people came out with sort of a blue grade.
[0:37:08 - 0:37:21] ▶
Complexion. And they had some sort of a head gear on. And he's describing this to us. So Alan, so I got to, I get on the phone. I was in, I think I was in, I was in Florida. And I got up on the phone and I said, Bob, did you know that your partner, the guy you did the movie with saw the landing footage at all in Air Force Base.
[0:37:21 - 0:37:43] ▶
And he didn't know. And Alan never told me, well, you know, I, you never told him, and I got the two of them talking on the phone about it. But Alan swears up and down that he saw that footage.
[0:37:43 - 0:37:54] ▶
What did you see on the film? Was it color? Was it black and white? Was it black and white? It was black and white.
[0:37:54 - 0:37:59] ▶
I think about if I could, could I sway a jury at this point? I don't know. But I based on the research that I've done on the Holman landing case. I kind of believe it happened.
[0:37:59 - 0:38:28] ▶
Yeah, you know, and so that I hear this other story that I'm reporting on in the program now. Yeah, to those skeptic out there, I can't prove that it happened. I certainly can't.
[0:38:28 - 0:38:38] ▶
But we have a date. We have a location and we have three other active at the time on duty, military personnel, you know, let's dig into it further for sure. Yeah, it's too significant. If it happened, it's too important to just dismiss because of a lack of, of that.
[0:38:38 - 0:38:57] ▶
It's a lack of evidence. Well, it's hard to look into something if you don't know about it. Of course. Yeah, no, and I think widening the surface area on something and saying, I, it gets true. Yeah.
[0:38:57 - 0:39:06] ▶
But we also need to look more into it. It's a very valid form of. Right. I mean, yeah, it's like just like Varsina. You know, I'm hoping additional witnesses will come forward and they have. Yeah. Well, that, that you have an overwhelming amount of. Yeah. But you have a start off like that. Sure. Yeah. Well, let's, I want to talk about that. I mean, that's an amit. It was in 1996. Is that right?
[0:39:06 - 0:39:26] ▶
1996. In 1996, Virginia, Brazil became the center of a UFO incident when residents reported sightings of strange creatures and a UFO crash.
[0:39:26 - 0:39:39] ▶
Clames followed that extra terrestrial were taken to a hospital with military and government personnel seen in the area.
[0:39:39 - 0:39:46] ▶
1996, Virginia, which is in between.
[0:39:46 - 0:39:49] ▶
Brazilian and Rio de Janeiro. And you go down there and you make this moment of contact movie, which I find just fascinating.
[0:39:49 - 0:39:59] ▶
The abundance of people in this town who believe something happened here. And then the witnesses that you interview firsthand and some of the crazy stuff like the, you know, the guy dying from being exposed to the being.
[0:39:59 - 0:40:14] ▶
I want to tell me about that process just crazy because so a little known fact. I was doing out of the blue in the late 90s.
[0:40:14 - 0:40:27] ▶
In this case, it just happened a couple of years earlier. And I had a partner, this guy Tim Coleman who's a former BBC correspondent, super smart guy walking in psychopedia, massive respect for this guy.
[0:40:27 - 0:40:38] ▶
And we were like mapping out out of the blue. And we were putting ideas on the wall. And he's like, oh, bloody hell mate. We got to go to Virginia, Brazil and investigate this UFO crash. I was like, oh, God.
[0:40:38 - 0:40:50] ▶
I think I picked the wrong partner.
[0:40:50 - 0:40:52] ▶
You're telling me that live aliens are walking around the town.
[0:40:52 - 0:40:56] ▶
There are of a UFO crash. Like I looked at them like, oh, God, please. And not only did I not look into it, but I refuse to look into it for I think 10 years. Maybe.
[0:40:56 - 0:41:08] ▶
So when I made the documentary, he called me up and he goes, bloody hell, man. You wouldn't even look into it back in the day.
[0:41:08 - 0:41:14] ▶
I said, you're right. I'm sorry. He goes, I was the first person to tell you about that case. You didn't bloody well believe me. I said, I didn't. I'm sorry. I tell you what, I'm going to give you a special thanks credit in the movie.
[0:41:14 - 0:41:24] ▶
So I gave him even though he had nothing to do with it. That's all the fact that he planted the seed of the 90s and I remind your audience like I'm making a documentary on UFOs my second one.
[0:41:24 - 0:41:34] ▶
And I heard about that story. And I refused to look into it because it's like, how is a UFO going to crash? Yeah.
[0:41:34 - 0:41:41] ▶
Live aliens in broad daylight.
[0:41:41 - 0:41:46] ▶
Walking around the town, cowering, hiding, suffering. Like, come on, man. Really? And the whole world's not going to know about that. That's I was like, please. Like, that's impossible.
[0:41:46 - 0:41:59] ▶
But you know what? I started looking into it. I traveled there five times over a 12 year period. And I walked away going, oh, my God, that case happened.
[0:41:59 - 0:42:10] ▶
Today we remember the main events of the case of this the rest, the most famous of Brazil and the most important in the world.
[0:42:10 - 0:42:17] ▶
And I remember when I was sticking my teeth into it, I don't know if I should use their names or not, but a couple of very prominent researchers in the field that I have tremendous respect for.
[0:42:17 - 0:42:25] ▶
We're telling me, don't do this. You're going to tarnish your reputation. You, you know, you're working with all these intel folks and people.
[0:42:25 - 0:42:32] ▶
You've had a great level of access. You're going to burn. You're going to just destroy all of that by reporting on this.
[0:42:32 - 0:42:38] ▶
Well, I think you proved them right. You did an amazing job. And you show, you know, like the skycarless to Susa and this Sharazee character who was he who's a military officer who's handling the being who gets
[0:42:38 - 0:42:52] ▶
did more than handle is manhandled. They grabbed it. Can you imagine now total cowboy just gets out of the car.
[0:42:52 - 0:42:59] ▶
And then it bay that basically ends up killing him. It is a result of the side effects he sort of heard yet and oily greasy stuff on his body. And apparently, according to friends and family, he was rubbing himself down with rubbing alcohol, trying to get it off of him.
[0:42:59 - 0:43:13] ▶
We were talking smell and the we were talking about this last night with how put off Chase brand and wrote a book called Crypto's Conundrum Chase brand is this. I think it's the student him for a CIA guy.
[0:43:13 - 0:43:26] ▶
Yeah, because you said he disappeared on you. Yes. So yeah. So I think Chase brand is a pseudonym. And I think it's this Paul Hollywood liaison and he writes this book under pseudonym. But he writes about Roswell. And I know it's a bit of a detour, but it relates because he talks about Hill and Coder, you know, one of the first CIA directors who dealt with Roswell. And the readout on Roswell was this being and it was emitting this sort of sulfuric, you know, and the women that you interview around.
[0:43:26 - 0:43:54] ▶
And Bargainia also say, I think it might have been sulfur. Like there was this emitting the strong odor. And in its presence, it's it's almost like, you know, this like radioactive substance is like coming off of that day later, they can still smell it.
[0:43:54 - 0:44:06] ▶
And also it smelled it. It was not that smell that was that as soon as you entered the room. Yes, it was and that's what struck me as unusual. Why did this smelly junk would be piled on the general's carpet? That was one of the few recollections that I have.
[0:44:06 - 0:44:22] ▶
That didn't make sense. I mean, the hospital where the beans were reported, reportedly, this they were done x-rays. They had to close that.
[0:44:22 - 0:44:33] ▶
We're in the hospital for like weeks because the smell was so intense. That's so insane.
[0:44:33 - 0:44:38] ▶
I didn't get the smell here in the nose. I don't know where that smell came from. I got to take my nose with some water to smell it.
[0:44:38 - 0:44:52] ▶
The ammonia. It's not the ammonia. It's not the smell. No, worse than I do. I don't know because it was strong.
[0:44:54 - 0:45:04] ▶
And all these people, they have nothing really to gain by saying this. In fact, many of them feel kind of traumatized.
[0:45:04 - 0:45:12] ▶
People knew the lengths that I went to to get people to go on camera. Like people think that they're just out there trying to sell. No, it took years. We would find witnesses and they were like, I am not coming forward. Period's not going to happen. What's in it for me? Yeah.
[0:45:12 - 0:45:28] ▶
I was already threatened. My family was threatened. I have nothing to gain by testifying on camera. Why would I do that? And the highest ranking military guy that you interviewed.
[0:45:28 - 0:45:37] ▶
Had you been living around and anonymized version of the fight. He was like, all the money in the world is not going to happen. Yeah.
[0:45:37 - 0:45:44] ▶
I will not go on camera. Period not going to happen. How'd you get it? Well, I was like, put me in the room with him. Right. Yeah.
[0:45:44 - 0:45:52] ▶
Okay. So we are sitting here with military ex who clearly doesn't want his identity revealed, which we're not going to do.
[0:45:52 - 0:46:02] ▶
And he's going to provide enough detail, not too much, but enough detail on operations that he was involved with with the Virginia case.
[0:46:02 - 0:46:11] ▶
I look into people's eyes and I just like look into their souls and just say this story is so much bigger than any one of us.
[0:46:11 - 0:46:23] ▶
Yeah. That you know future generations have a right to know like what is it going to take what will it take to get you to you know what I mean?
[0:46:23 - 0:46:30] ▶
I'm ready to tell you everything. Yeah. Yeah. Right now. I do. I look deep in the rise because I communicate on a more spiritual level. Yeah.
[0:46:30 - 0:46:37] ▶
Well, it's like plea. You know, and I remember what I arrived in Australia. Some of the researchers and I'm not tuning my own horn.
[0:46:37 - 0:46:45] ▶
I've just, I mean, I'm really bad at a lot of things, but some things I'm not bad at. And the researchers when I arrived.
[0:46:45 - 0:46:53] ▶
I was investigating this landing case happened in the 60s. They're like, all right. We've been going at it for 50 years and these particular witnesses are never going to talk a period.
[0:46:53 - 0:47:03] ▶
They're just giving me in the room with them. I got two of them to talk after 50 years. So I looked this guy in the eyes.
[0:47:03 - 0:47:10] ▶
It was so sketchy, man. We drove up into the depths of Brazil like four hours into the night north of Virginia.
[0:47:10 - 0:47:18] ▶
And maybe five hours. It was thunderstorm. There was lightning. It was raining and we get up there and there's just like bar that kind of spills out into a dirt parking lot.
[0:47:18 - 0:47:29] ▶
And they were just felt looked. I stood out so heavily, you know, when I got there. And two guys walk over to our car. They look inside. Then they get in the back and let's go, you know, like, all right. So they're taking us somewhere else. I don't know where they're taking me.
[0:47:29 - 0:47:45] ▶
You know, I'm driving. I'm thinking kind of hope this is a set up. Right.
[0:47:45 - 0:47:49] ▶
You know, then they're driving to some other location and then we go to this bar and it's outside as well. And we all talking. He's just as paranoid as I we were both paranoid. Yeah.
[0:47:49 - 0:47:59] ▶
You know, and he's looking at me like a UN agent. Yeah. Are you a secret US government agent? I'm like, no, you can look me up. You know, I'm got a reputation. I've been doing this for 30 years. Like go ahead and Google me. You know, one of the reasons he might have been paranoid is because he mentions to you that the body goes from hospital to hospital. But it ends up probably going the United States.
[0:47:59 - 0:48:18] ▶
Yeah. So they're now just like threatened some of you meet with him. That window opens people because people go, oh, yeah, people just trying to sell a crazy story.
[0:48:34 - 0:48:42] ▶
I'm like, you have no idea what it took to get every single witness on camera. It took years of begging and pleading, you know, and there are still people that we identified people that have the footage.
[0:48:42 - 0:48:54] ▶
You know, people that don't even have any physical evidence are terrified. So there are people that have the footage. No question, no question in my mind. I talked to people that have seen it. How do I get that? Well, so if I was there at the time for an extra six weeks, I'm quite confident I would have come home with it.
[0:48:54 - 0:49:11] ▶
How would you know that? Well, because I was in touch with the people that had it. Right. So the problem was like, for instance, a given example, why would they not have there freaked out? Oh my God, people were freaked out without any evidence. The people with the evidence, they were terrified. Yeah.
[0:49:11 - 0:49:26] ▶
How did you even know I had it? You know, I mean, kind of thing like we were about one day away from my buddy Marco going with military X.
[0:49:26 - 0:49:37] ▶
So this individual's house, I was going to go. He was going to Marco my part, my counterpart was going to go to show the footage. Apparently it was like it goes from as a military base into the town of Virginia and all the way back again. So they filmed the excursion going out, the alien and then coming back again.
[0:49:37 - 0:49:54] ▶
Now I don't know when that particular footage of the alien was a lie or not, but there's other footage of the alien that was in the hospital. That's not really that does have footage that I talked to the doctors that saw it. And I knew the doctor that shot it. Wow.
[0:49:54 - 0:50:04] ▶
He had just died of a heart attack. So we went to his wife's out like it is like so many leads the chief of police in the area. He had a photograph.
[0:50:04 - 0:50:13] ▶
And one was alive. One was dead. And there wasn't there wasn't one person in the town who said this is a hoax or fabric. No, no. I mean, a lot of people are like, Oh, yeah, I've heard about it. You know, some people are like, Oh, yeah, no, I believe it happened.
[0:50:13 - 0:50:24] ▶
But nobody in and around. No one person that it didn't happen as a hoax. Not one person. Sorry. Um.
[0:50:24 - 0:50:31] ▶
So I, you know, just as this was happening, you know, you're investigating something for that long and you're getting this close to getting.
[0:50:32 - 0:50:41] ▶
I mean, all the people that we got to come forward, the doctors, the X-ray technicians.
[0:50:41 - 0:50:45] ▶
You know, the town mayor like the mayor of Virginia does he believe that this case happened as the witnesses are reporting it to have happened.
[0:50:45 - 0:51:06] ▶
I mean, the women that came within 10 feet of the creature alive.
[0:51:06 - 0:51:15] ▶
My name is Liliani Silva in 1996. I was a creature.
[0:51:15 - 0:51:27] ▶
My name is Katia Xavier in 1996. I was a creature.
[0:51:27 - 0:51:33] ▶
You know, the woman when you see them interview, it's like they're not like this. They seem kind of shy and afraid to speak to you and no way, no way.
[0:51:33 - 0:51:43] ▶
Anyway, then, you know, we're getting close to this footage. I mean, it was pretty intense. Like I mean, is you feel like you're stepping on you feel like you're poking around where you shouldn't be poking around that there are extreme measures taken to keep this a little on this story.
[0:51:43 - 0:52:07] ▶
So you could feel it when you're poking around out there, you feel like you're being kind of what you know, you know, the sound paranoid, but I'll tell you, I got spooked. I could just feel it.
[0:52:07 - 0:52:18] ▶
The military base calls the guy that we had just met with on camera calls him up. Hey, this is so and so it adds a military base. There's an American filmmaker poking around.
[0:52:18 - 0:52:32] ▶
You, um, they can't attack you at all. Did you meet with him or yeah, are you still living out this address has the family.
[0:52:32 - 0:52:42] ▶
Oh, wow, they got calls like that. Yeah, so then he got the call. The guy that we were going to meet and now I just put him on camera. They called him the next day. No way.
[0:52:42 - 0:52:52] ▶
So how do they track that? So that's crazy. Well, granted, we met with them. Who do you think it is?
[0:52:52 - 0:52:59] ▶
I don't know. They say it's like the CIA and the guy that will go access the guy with the footage that was going to show it to my, my partner Marco. Yeah.
[0:52:59 - 0:53:07] ▶
They summoned him into the base. And I don't know how far as a military base was, but it had to be at least four hours from there.
[0:53:07 - 0:53:13] ▶
They summoned that guy in. So the so my guy, the guy that we just put on camera who drove the alien around was like, you need to get out of here.
[0:53:13 - 0:53:24] ▶
Just leave us like disappear. Do you know what happened? That's a good moment. No, I don't know. No, no, no, because I we left. He's like, you need to leave.
[0:53:24 - 0:53:32] ▶
This is getting really heated.
[0:53:32 - 0:53:34] ▶
And I had just confronted Eric Lopez, right? Eric Lopes.
[0:53:50 - 0:53:54] ▶
And he was the alleged driver during the second capture of one of the alive creatures where his buddy, Marco Shariz, he jumped out of the car, who's in the passenger seat and grabbed the thing.
[0:53:54 - 0:54:06] ▶
You know, according to all the research that I talked to, the military didn't say, hey, there's a UFO crash and aliens running around. They were like, there's some unusual creature.
[0:54:06 - 0:54:15] ▶
And be on the lookout. It's being cited. It's in this area. So there were. So Eric Lopes just called his buddy was off duty. They were real. They were both military police, but he called him up. Hey, you want to join me? I got this weird thing I'm doing tonight and jumps in the car and off they go.
[0:54:15 - 0:54:31] ▶
And then they see it. Cal ring coming across the road. Stop the car. It was pissing Ray. I believe it was pissing Ray. What happened? What's his name?
[0:54:31 - 0:54:39] ▶
Marco Shariz gets out and grabs this thing. Didn't think twice about it. Just man handles it puts in the car. Off they go. Go to a clinic. And the doctor comes out. I was like, I don't know what the hell that thing is. Get it out of here. So then they go to a few minutes as hospital. And that's apparently where it ended up. You met at a hospital and then the military came in and.
[0:54:39 - 0:55:00] ▶
Crazy, but this is a side note. And if I'm going on a tangent, stop me.
[0:55:00 - 0:55:06] ▶
In 2013, you offer researcher, a leader, Roger, lear. He was in Los Angeles. I was shooting in Los Angeles. And I at the time, even though I was covering Virginia, and I was covering the landing case in Australia, I had a specific focus that week on the witnesses from Rua's in Bobway.
[0:55:06 - 0:55:27] ▶
So I made arrangements to, I mean, it's like the stars aligned somehow and they all disagreed for the first time ever to get back together after 20 years of the case. The landing case in Rua's in Bobway.
[0:55:27 - 0:55:39] ▶
And during this time, aerial school, yeah, aerial school, 1994. I think it was September, but I got to look into that. In any case, so I'm really focused on that and making that all happen. And people are flying in from all different corners of the world. And I remember my financial guy at the time.
[0:55:39 - 0:55:55] ▶
He's like, you're mean to tell me that a UFO landed in the aliens cut out. I was like, please, I said, no, I know trust me on this one because it was really expensive to fly everybody.
[0:55:55 - 0:56:03] ▶
So I focused on that. And Roger, lear is like, I heard you're doing a document or part you're covering the Virginia case because I was going to just.
[0:56:03 - 0:56:12] ▶
I was going to include it in the phenomenon as just one segment, right? Like I did with Rua, like I did with with other cases, the Cora and things of that nature.
[0:56:12 - 0:56:20] ▶
And he goes, I got to talk to you about the Virginia case, you know, what he didn't tell me was that he was dying of cancer and that he had critical things to share with me.
[0:56:20 - 0:56:29] ▶
And I kicked myself because I kept trying to make it for him to come in and he got upset with me. Roger, funny. He was like, you know, hey man, like, you know, you keep saying you're going to get me on camera. What the hell?
[0:56:29 - 0:56:39] ▶
And it's a broad term. So sorry. I mean, really busy. And this is out of the blue. You approached me. And I'm doing like 15 hour shoots every day.
[0:56:39 - 0:56:47] ▶
Now it's you I'm exhausted. We don't have it. You know, so he said, we're not going to meet with you. And I was like, it's not that I'm not going to meet with you.
[0:56:47 - 0:56:53] ▶
I want to meet with you. He goes, well, at least take my tapes. I went there and I wrote the book on the case. And so he gives me these tapes.
[0:56:53 - 0:57:01] ▶
And then I kind of forgot about it. And then I digitized them. And then I sent them back to him. And then he died.
[0:57:01 - 0:57:08] ▶
And I don't remember exactly what year that was because I was all the whole thing went down. So then I'm shooting the film.
[0:57:08 - 0:57:15] ▶
In in 2021, I'm not like that. Yeah. And record time. You know, we've done a lot of research prior to that. And I'm like, oh my gosh.
[0:57:15 - 0:57:27] ▶
I've got those Roger Ler tapes. So I take those tapes out. I had them digitized and I go through them. I'm like, whoa, he got this person. Oh, he did that. Oh, this is amazing.
[0:57:27 - 0:57:37] ▶
And so I'm going through them. And I was like, wait, he wrote a book too. So I buy the book, read the book. And I'm like, gosh, the book is basically a transcription of of the tapes.
[0:57:37 - 0:57:49] ▶
Yeah. Right. And I met with this person. But that person. Then not part of the tapes in his book. He describes a meeting with these two doctors at a hospital that worked on the alien.
[0:57:49 - 0:58:06] ▶
That's why I'm thinking, oh, boy, this is pretty crazy. The story like really they had telepathic communication. Like there's some smoke started to fill the room. And there was like telepathic communicate. This is according to him in his book, right.
[0:58:06 - 0:58:22] ▶
And I'm thinking, my God, there was communication face to face with the aliens by the doctors and everything else in the book is totally accurate because I have the tapes. Then he just goes off an attention about communication with these aliens in the hospital building.
[0:58:22 - 0:58:36] ▶
So I find out who is he with. Yeah, he was with Ubudur, Ubudur Jada Rodriguez. It was a very prominent UFO researcher that happened to do like at one point, he was the biggest advocate that this happened. There's no question. We have all these witnesses to nothing to have daughter to nothing happened. And it was all just a big, you know, blah, blah. So he did at one point he did a one A. So now this guy won't even meet with me. He's one rear Roger Lear. He's deceased.
[0:58:36 - 0:59:04] ▶
And then he was with another doctor. I got a hold of that guy and he had just died. So now, dang it. I can't verify the claims. I don't know who the doctors are, right.
[0:59:04 - 0:59:13] ▶
But according now it had I met with Roger. He would have told me who those doctors were on camera. And I could have like looked into.
[0:59:14 - 0:59:21] ▶
Do you know what I'm saying? So, but those doctors are still alive. So I'm going to go back to shit. Go back. I am going back as I've got two forensic pathologists that are coming there.
[0:59:22 - 0:59:33] ▶
They just came forward. So I'm going to go interview them apparently. They have some physical evidence left over from the from the case.
[0:59:33 - 0:59:40] ▶
They talk about the bacteria that was on. Wow.
[0:59:41 - 0:59:42] ▶
That they've believed killed him.
[0:59:43 - 0:59:45] ▶
You know, my son is.
[0:59:48 - 0:59:50] ▶
I'm a bacteria. He's.
[0:59:50 - 0:59:52] ▶
He's body had no defense against anything about the bacteria.
[1:00:03 - 1:00:06] ▶
I, you know, in my limited scientific knowledge. No, I have not gone and met with them physically, but they had communicated some things in Portuguese to my buddy.
[1:00:06 - 1:00:14] ▶
And I haven't had any of the.
[1:00:14 - 1:00:15] ▶
So I need to go there and there's other people I'm going to go meet with. And I'm going to re-release kind of like what I did with out of the blue.
[1:00:15 - 1:00:21] ▶
Just revamp it. Bring it up to bring it up to date.
[1:00:22 - 1:00:24] ▶
So anyway, I get it off an attention. But my point is is that it is extremely difficult getting people to come forward.
[1:00:24 - 1:00:32] ▶
It's not like you just go there and I was like, hey, I want to sell my story. No, no, no. It's exactly the opposite.
[1:00:32 - 1:00:38] ▶
That's usually the better the better the case, the better the evidence the harder it is to get the people, the witnesses to come forward.
[1:00:39 - 1:00:45] ▶
That's the way it is.
[1:00:45 - 1:00:46] ▶
What do you, what do you think about this moment in UFO disclosure? Obviously the program is coming out soon, which is very exciting.
[1:00:46 - 1:00:53] ▶
You also have, we also just came out with a book. I think it was released yesterday called imminent.
[1:00:53 - 1:00:59] ▶
Are you hopeful for this year? You have, you know, put the possibility that Schumer, you know, the amendment to national defense authorization act.
[1:00:59 - 1:01:08] ▶
Passes in, you know, a more robust form than it, you know, got kind of diluted last year.
[1:01:09 - 1:01:14] ▶
Do you think that this year we actually make some progress or?
[1:01:14 - 1:01:17] ▶
Well, it's funny because so with the program again, I'm talking about Crash of Treeville.
[1:01:17 - 1:01:22] ▶
My previous film was all about a specific case of Crash of Treeville and the American involvement.
[1:01:22 - 1:01:27] ▶
And, but again, I'm sitting there in the courtroom with the jury, a skeptical jury, and I'm thinking to myself,
[1:01:27 - 1:01:33] ▶
how am I going to present this in a way that's going to make it palatable to mainstream, right?
[1:01:33 - 1:01:39] ▶
Because this is pretty crazy. Let's just call a spade a spade here.
[1:01:39 - 1:01:43] ▶
You want to start talking about we have a super secret Crash of Treeville program that's been going on since at least World War II, right?
[1:01:43 - 1:01:52] ▶
I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP Crash of Treeville and reverse engineering program.
[1:01:52 - 1:02:02] ▶
And that's, you know, people are going to go, this is impossible.
[1:02:02 - 1:02:07] ▶
So I was thinking about that when I put together the program, I was like, okay, I've got that skeptic in the audience.
[1:02:07 - 1:02:11] ▶
I've got, you know, the pant, the jury to sway.
[1:02:11 - 1:02:15] ▶
And again, I'm not talking about manipulating anybody.
[1:02:15 - 1:02:17] ▶
I'm just talking about putting the evidence forward in a way that makes it digestible to mainstream.
[1:02:17 - 1:02:23] ▶
And I really think that we have created a very compelling case with the program that a very...
[1:02:23 - 1:02:31] ▶
a very program like a Crash of Treeville probably does exist, right?
[1:02:32 - 1:02:36] ▶
Yeah. So that, that I think we accomplished.
[1:02:36 - 1:02:40] ▶
Yeah. I feel like you did an amazing job and did accomplish that.
[1:02:40 - 1:02:46] ▶
I mean, it's maybe a little hard for me to say because I'm already bought in.
[1:02:46 - 1:02:49] ▶
Right. But when I have a really good friend of mine who's very smart guy is a former teacher at Berkeley University
[1:02:49 - 1:02:55] ▶
and he watched some of it and he's like, the stuff that's being said, I wouldn't even consider believing it.
[1:02:55 - 1:03:03] ▶
But coming out of the mouths of rounds and Schumer and, you know, you know, I'm looking at all this data and these reports.
[1:03:03 - 1:03:10] ▶
And boy, this is really hard to dismiss, you know.
[1:03:10 - 1:03:14] ▶
Yeah, it's like you really got me thinking and that's all I can do.
[1:03:14 - 1:03:18] ▶
I want the program to come out and get people to do more work on it.
[1:03:18 - 1:03:22] ▶
I mean, I think it's a really big deeper.
[1:03:22 - 1:03:24] ▶
Ask the right questions, you know.
[1:03:24 - 1:03:26] ▶
Hold their feet to the fire like, you know, let's look at it because you got a lot of noise.
[1:03:26 - 1:03:30] ▶
Right. And it's like you got pushback from the intelligence communities.
[1:03:30 - 1:03:33] ▶
There's really nothing in it for them to put the stuff to come out.
[1:03:33 - 1:03:36] ▶
But they put the genie back in the bottle. I'll tell you that much.
[1:03:36 - 1:03:38] ▶
I think there's a fight within the intel.
[1:03:39 - 1:03:41] ▶
Of course, some people wanted out. Other people don't want it out. I get it.
[1:03:41 - 1:03:44] ▶
If an airline pilot has a siding that when he makes that report for the FAA,
[1:03:44 - 1:03:49] ▶
they said it would come to Congress. But I was told that the intelligence community did not like that.
[1:03:49 - 1:03:54] ▶
And the bill was in the amendment was not even heard in committee.
[1:03:54 - 1:03:57] ▶
I think it's time for this country to take back our country.
[1:03:57 - 1:04:00] ▶
We need to tell the folks at the Pentagon they work for us.
[1:04:00 - 1:04:03] ▶
That we don't work for them.
[1:04:03 - 1:04:05] ▶
It's a little scary.
[1:04:05 - 1:04:06] ▶
I'm sure there have a lot of answers and I'm sure they have a lot of things that they can't answer because they possibly don't know.
[1:04:06 - 1:04:12] ▶
Or like, you know what the status quo is scary though.
[1:04:12 - 1:04:15] ▶
And just like, you know, move forward on our current geopolitical trajectory.
[1:04:15 - 1:04:20] ▶
And so if you have some sort of Hail Mary in the form of like some big paradigm shift as a result of like a higher life form,
[1:04:21 - 1:04:29] ▶
just throw the Hail Mary now.
[1:04:29 - 1:04:30] ▶
I think it's going to unite us.
[1:04:30 - 1:04:33] ▶
Yeah. I think it'll unite humanity.
[1:04:33 - 1:04:36] ▶
Yeah. I really believe that.
[1:04:36 - 1:04:38] ▶
Do you think we'll in our lifetime because all of these contact events are somewhat ephemeral.
[1:04:38 - 1:04:43] ▶
It's always like you have all these examples we were talking about at the bar the other day.
[1:04:43 - 1:04:48] ▶
You have all these examples of like these near misses where like you have in the program.
[1:04:48 - 1:04:52] ▶
You have you landed every now and again.
[1:04:53 - 1:04:55] ▶
You do. Well, you do.
[1:04:55 - 1:04:56] ▶
I mean, the program you showed like an incredible photo out of Scotland.
[1:04:56 - 1:05:00] ▶
I don't want to ruin it so people should watch.
[1:05:00 - 1:05:02] ▶
If we were, you know, sitting here and it was like,
[1:05:02 - 1:05:04] ▶
Stanton Friedman and Leonard Stringfield or something.
[1:05:04 - 1:05:07] ▶
They probably would have said like, we hope in our lifetime things shift on this.
[1:05:08 - 1:05:11] ▶
Thank you. Stanton Friedman. By the way, love you brother.
[1:05:11 - 1:05:13] ▶
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
[1:05:13 - 1:05:15] ▶
We're standing on the shoulders of giants.
[1:05:15 - 1:05:17] ▶
You know, I cried when he died.
[1:05:17 - 1:05:19] ▶
He's a my cried when he died genius.
[1:05:19 - 1:05:22] ▶
Also here in Washington,
[1:05:22 - 1:05:25] ▶
Stanton Friedman, a physicist who's been involved in nuclear space and research for such companies as General Electric,
[1:05:25 - 1:05:31] ▶
Westinghouse and General Motors.
[1:05:31 - 1:05:33] ▶
He has studied and lectured on UFOs for almost 30 years.
[1:05:33 - 1:05:37] ▶
No, no, well, I'm just saying so.
[1:05:37 - 1:05:40] ▶
So, you know, actually, like Peter Teal went on Joe Rogan Rogan kept ring up aliens.
[1:05:40 - 1:05:46] ▶
Like half of half of Rogan shows are like fully about.
[1:05:46 - 1:05:49] ▶
He keeps bringing him up and up.
[1:05:50 - 1:05:52] ▶
And I think at one point, Peter goes, you know,
[1:05:52 - 1:05:56] ▶
you probably don't want to spend your whole life on this stuff because if you had started doing that in the 60s,
[1:05:56 - 1:06:02] ▶
and you know, nothing would have dramatically shifted or whatever.
[1:06:02 - 1:06:06] ▶
And you could you could easily push back and say the last six or seven years post 2017.
[1:06:06 - 1:06:11] ▶
Which is a lot of things.
[1:06:11 - 1:06:12] ▶
Which you highlighted the beginning of the program.
[1:06:12 - 1:06:15] ▶
My name is Leslie Kane and I'm an investigative reporter.
[1:06:15 - 1:06:18] ▶
And I was one of three journalists who broke the story in December of 2017 about the Department of Defense Secret Program studying UFOs.
[1:06:18 - 1:06:27] ▶
And that story was kind of a catalyst for a lot of things that have happened since.
[1:06:27 - 1:06:31] ▶
Has really shifted this stuff.
[1:06:31 - 1:06:33] ▶
Absolutely. Super important.
[1:06:33 - 1:06:34] ▶
Super important, right?
[1:06:34 - 1:06:35] ▶
But do things shift in a more dramatic way from here because I go back and forth.
[1:06:35 - 1:06:39] ▶
There's some intuitive sense I have that in the next five to 10 years,
[1:06:39 - 1:06:43] ▶
we get a big shift on this.
[1:06:43 - 1:06:46] ▶
And then there's some other sense that maybe it just keeps kind of muddling along.
[1:06:46 - 1:06:52] ▶
Okay, I wouldn't have said this five, excuse me.
[1:06:53 - 1:06:56] ▶
I wouldn't have said this five years ago, but.
[1:06:56 - 1:06:58] ▶
But I believe the momentum is.
[1:06:59 - 1:07:01] ▶
There's a tidal wave at this point.
[1:07:01 - 1:07:03] ▶
And yes, there's push back.
[1:07:03 - 1:07:04] ▶
And I remember people feeling discouraged after David Grush came forward and testified under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers.
[1:07:04 - 1:07:12] ▶
Wow, I sat there and I just I watched that for my phone.
[1:07:12 - 1:07:16] ▶
It was like one of the only times.
[1:07:16 - 1:07:18] ▶
My son was like, Hey, daddy, let's go play outside.
[1:07:18 - 1:07:21] ▶
You know, you're like son.
[1:07:22 - 1:07:23] ▶
I need to watch this.
[1:07:23 - 1:07:24] ▶
I'm watching this live.
[1:07:26 - 1:07:27] ▶
I probably just give me.
[1:07:27 - 1:07:28] ▶
I need an hour and a half.
[1:07:28 - 1:07:29] ▶
And I'll do whatever you want to do.
[1:07:29 - 1:07:31] ▶
And I was glued and funny enough, I watched it for my phone live.
[1:07:31 - 1:07:35] ▶
And I sat there and I think I remember I had tears is coming down my face because I've received so much really cool and laughter for so long.
[1:07:35 - 1:07:42] ▶
Like my whole adult life, you know, getting laughed at and make fun of.
[1:07:42 - 1:07:46] ▶
I remember going to cocktail parties and just saying, we do me a favor.
[1:07:46 - 1:07:49] ▶
Please don't tell people what I do.
[1:07:49 - 1:07:51] ▶
Because I'm going to spend the whole night just defending it.
[1:07:51 - 1:07:53] ▶
And I don't want to do that.
[1:07:53 - 1:07:54] ▶
Yeah, that's tough, right?
[1:07:54 - 1:07:55] ▶
It's funny when people ask what I do.
[1:07:58 - 1:08:00] ▶
At this point, I spend so much time interviewing people about the UFO thing.
[1:08:00 - 1:08:03] ▶
But at this point, like when people ask where you're like, oh, I'm an investor or whatever, which I do.
[1:08:03 - 1:08:07] ▶
That is a big part of my life.
[1:08:07 - 1:08:09] ▶
But it's so much easier.
[1:08:09 - 1:08:11] ▶
Like neutral like vanilla thing.
[1:08:12 - 1:08:14] ▶
Maybe they ask one more question, go tech, start ups, you know, whatever.
[1:08:14 - 1:08:17] ▶
But to say you have a thing, it's like you're signing up for like an immediate like polarizing reaction.
[1:08:18 - 1:08:23] ▶
It's probably like at 30 to minutes to an hour tops.
[1:08:23 - 1:08:25] ▶
And you're having to talk about it.
[1:08:25 - 1:08:27] ▶
You have to give this canned thing as to why you think it's true.
[1:08:27 - 1:08:29] ▶
And a little less these days.
[1:08:29 - 1:08:31] ▶
Like I remember when, you know, 2017, you know, New York Times article, the evidence that I remember had some family members go.
[1:08:32 - 1:08:40] ▶
Maybe James wasn't so crazy.
[1:08:40 - 1:08:43] ▶
You know, like people that are like close family members that are total intellectuals and they just like.
[1:08:44 - 1:08:50] ▶
But at the time is you don't want to talk about it because in either direction, it's either they're fanatic or they're, you know, the way here's the way I feel about it now.
[1:08:50 - 1:08:58] ▶
I feel like people who's like, you know, they look at me sideways, whatever.
[1:08:58 - 1:09:02] ▶
And I just say, you know what?
[1:09:02 - 1:09:04] ▶
You're a believer and I say, well, no, it's not that.
[1:09:04 - 1:09:08] ▶
It's you either know about it.
[1:09:08 - 1:09:10] ▶
Because it's not a question of believing or not believing.
[1:09:13 - 1:09:15] ▶
I mean, it's a reality.
[1:09:15 - 1:09:17] ▶
We don't have an explanation for it or certainly I don't have a prosaic explanation for it.
[1:09:18 - 1:09:25] ▶
I, you know, but it's happening.
[1:09:25 - 1:09:28] ▶
You know, and there's no question there's an intelligence behind it.
[1:09:29 - 1:09:32] ▶
And it might be a myriad of different explanations.
[1:09:33 - 1:09:36] ▶
You know, I don't know.
[1:09:37 - 1:09:38] ▶
And there's a non-human intelligence behind it.
[1:09:41 - 1:09:43] ▶
And I'm convinced I put my life on it.
[1:09:43 - 1:09:45] ▶
You know, buying that.
[1:09:46 - 1:09:47] ▶
And I have people who have that, they don't know about it.
[1:09:47 - 1:09:48] ▶
They don't know about it.
[1:09:48 - 1:09:49] ▶
Because they don't know about it.
[1:09:49 - 1:09:50] ▶
They don't know about it.
[1:09:50 - 1:09:51] ▶
And I don't know about it.
[1:09:51 - 1:09:52] ▶
And there's kind of, you know, in my opinion, a speculation.
[1:09:55 - 1:09:56] ▶
But I know, because I've talked to certain people that according to them, that seem to be in a position to know,
[1:09:56 - 1:10:01] ▶
they're probably a handful of people on this planet that have the bigger picture.
[1:10:01 - 1:10:03] ▶
Do you think that all of those people are hardcore intel?
[1:10:04 - 1:10:09] ▶
Or do you think some of these people exist outside of any sort of, you know, government and military classification,
[1:10:09 - 1:10:14] ▶
I go back and forth because I don't know if I would,
[1:10:14 - 1:10:16] ▶
but I know cases that I go, I go to locations,
[1:10:16 - 1:10:20] ▶
I meet with witnesses.
[1:10:20 - 1:10:21] ▶
It's kind of like what I do, right?
[1:10:21 - 1:10:23] ▶
And I don't just believe David Grush,
[1:10:23 - 1:10:26] ▶
like when he was testifying those open hearings.
[1:10:26 - 1:10:29] ▶
I was like tears rolling streaming down my face.
[1:10:31 - 1:10:34] ▶
Like, so I didn't believe it just because he's under oath
[1:10:34 - 1:10:38] ▶
and he's a high level intelligence officer.
[1:10:38 - 1:10:39] ▶
Of course, he's incredibly credible.
[1:10:39 - 1:10:41] ▶
And he's an amazing human being.
[1:10:41 - 1:10:43] ▶
I believe it because what he was saying
[1:10:43 - 1:10:45] ▶
aligned with my 30 years of research.
[1:10:45 - 1:10:47] ▶
And all the different locations that I've gone to,
[1:10:48 - 1:10:50] ▶
particularly Virginia, but I've investigated Roswell Zoo.
[1:10:50 - 1:10:53] ▶
I mean, I've been out there.
[1:10:53 - 1:10:54] ▶
I went to the 50th anniversary of Roswell.
[1:10:55 - 1:10:56] ▶
And the advantage I had back then was there was a lot of momentum,
[1:10:57 - 1:11:00] ▶
a lot of talk, a lot of things happening.
[1:11:00 - 1:11:02] ▶
There were at least at least 20 people
[1:11:03 - 1:11:07] ▶
that were in Roswell at the time that I got to meet with
[1:11:07 - 1:11:10] ▶
And they were all believe.
[1:11:11 - 1:11:12] ▶
Oh, talking about the threats,
[1:11:12 - 1:11:15] ▶
they'll be picking your bones out of the desert.
[1:11:15 - 1:11:16] ▶
No, I had guys tell me this is what was said at the time.
[1:11:16 - 1:11:20] ▶
Not only would they be picking your bones out of the desert,
[1:11:21 - 1:11:24] ▶
but your family's bones out of the desert.
[1:11:24 - 1:11:25] ▶
Lots of different people told me that.
[1:11:26 - 1:11:27] ▶
I was just with the founder of a very prominent
[1:11:27 - 1:11:31] ▶
multi-billion dollar Fortune 500 company.
[1:11:31 - 1:11:35] ▶
Like beyond reproach.
[1:11:35 - 1:11:37] ▶
You can't do this guy's not a liar.
[1:11:37 - 1:11:39] ▶
He was a dreamless, yeah.
[1:11:39 - 1:11:40] ▶
And he's also super humble and like out of the limelight
[1:11:40 - 1:11:43] ▶
actually as a founder.
[1:11:43 - 1:11:44] ▶
He's like 20 years old.
[1:11:44 - 1:11:45] ▶
Well, we'll give any more detail.
[1:11:48 - 1:11:50] ▶
We're talking and you know, turns out he watches the show
[1:11:52 - 1:11:57] ▶
and I'm like, what you want to like, you know why?
[1:11:57 - 1:11:59] ▶
Why you don't have time to watch, you know,
[1:11:59 - 1:12:01] ▶
because well, let me tell you, you know,
[1:12:01 - 1:12:04] ▶
at the end of his life, my grandfather was in, you know,
[1:12:04 - 1:12:07] ▶
the five hundred and ninth atomic bomber squadron.
[1:12:07 - 1:12:10] ▶
He was stationed at Roswell in 47.
[1:12:10 - 1:12:13] ▶
And he goes, he wasn't there when the crash happened,
[1:12:13 - 1:12:17] ▶
but he came back to base and he came back
[1:12:17 - 1:12:20] ▶
and he said that everybody was beyond spooked.
[1:12:20 - 1:12:24] ▶
Beyond a weather balloon landing,
[1:12:24 - 1:12:27] ▶
beyond some test dummy, you know,
[1:12:27 - 1:12:29] ▶
that the air force keeps changing their story.
[1:12:29 - 1:12:30] ▶
It's all BS or whatever.
[1:12:30 - 1:12:32] ▶
But like people were pale in the face
[1:12:32 - 1:12:34] ▶
and psychologically really messed up.
[1:12:34 - 1:12:37] ▶
And so when I hear a story like that from him
[1:12:38 - 1:12:40] ▶
and he said his gravities like an old school guy
[1:12:40 - 1:12:42] ▶
who would barely talk and he really started to come out
[1:12:42 - 1:12:44] ▶
like towards his death.
[1:12:44 - 1:12:46] ▶
And so you hear thing and thing, you know,
[1:12:46 - 1:12:48] ▶
thing after thing like that, you know,
[1:12:48 - 1:12:49] ▶
like something happened there.
[1:12:49 - 1:12:51] ▶
Hold truck of microphones there.
[1:12:51 - 1:12:53] ▶
They wanted me to, they wanted some comments from me,
[1:12:53 - 1:12:56] ▶
but I wasn't that good, but they do that.
[1:12:56 - 1:12:59] ▶
So all I could do is keep a mouth shut.
[1:12:59 - 1:13:02] ▶
Something really profound.
[1:13:02 - 1:13:03] ▶
Well, I was making out of the blue.
[1:13:03 - 1:13:05] ▶
And it's funny, like some of the things
[1:13:05 - 1:13:07] ▶
that never even make it to any of my documentaries
[1:13:07 - 1:13:09] ▶
are the things that propel me more than anything else,
[1:13:09 - 1:13:11] ▶
any other bit of evidence or bit of testimony
[1:13:11 - 1:13:13] ▶
I was making out of the blue
[1:13:14 - 1:13:16] ▶
and the woman who owned the building
[1:13:16 - 1:13:18] ▶
where we were editing the film.
[1:13:18 - 1:13:20] ▶
When I wasn't editing my house,
[1:13:21 - 1:13:22] ▶
we were going back and forth.
[1:13:22 - 1:13:24] ▶
She was 88 and she told, when she found out
[1:13:24 - 1:13:29] ▶
what we were doing, she told my partner, Boris,
[1:13:29 - 1:13:33] ▶
who I've made, he's been partners with me,
[1:13:33 - 1:13:36] ▶
and Boris Zuboff on all the films I've ever made
[1:13:36 - 1:13:38] ▶
since I was in my early 20s.
[1:13:38 - 1:13:40] ▶
And Boris goes, yeah, the lady owns the building,
[1:13:40 - 1:13:42] ▶
wants to meet with you.
[1:13:42 - 1:13:43] ▶
I said, really? Why?
[1:13:43 - 1:13:45] ▶
He goes, I don't know.
[1:13:45 - 1:13:46] ▶
She found out what you're doing, and wants to have tea.
[1:13:46 - 1:13:49] ▶
I said, oh, okay, he goes, I suggest going to have tea with her.
[1:13:49 - 1:13:53] ▶
Biggest regret that I didn't put it on camera.
[1:13:55 - 1:13:57] ▶
But anyway, so we meet and she's like,
[1:13:57 - 1:13:59] ▶
hi, her, you're doing this documentary on UFOs.
[1:13:59 - 1:14:04] ▶
And I said, yeah, she's pouring me tea and she's like,
[1:14:04 - 1:14:06] ▶
I just want you to know, I've never told anybody this.
[1:14:06 - 1:14:10] ▶
But my, it was either, her husband or almost husband,
[1:14:10 - 1:14:13] ▶
boyfriend at the time in the early 50s told her,
[1:14:13 - 1:14:17] ▶
who's a very prominent scientist,
[1:14:17 - 1:14:19] ▶
that the spaceship crashed in New Mexico.
[1:14:19 - 1:14:23] ▶
And then there were bodies, aliens recovered.
[1:14:23 - 1:14:26] ▶
She's like, I was told, he told me that in the 50s.
[1:14:26 - 1:14:31] ▶
And she, I'll never forget.
[1:14:32 - 1:14:34] ▶
And when he says that's what happened, by calling,
[1:14:34 - 1:14:37] ▶
that's what happened.
[1:14:37 - 1:14:39] ▶
She says, I couldn't talk about it with anybody,
[1:14:39 - 1:14:41] ▶
but I wanted you to know that.
[1:14:41 - 1:14:43] ▶
That's that really resonated with, like,
[1:14:45 - 1:14:48] ▶
or do you know what I mean?
[1:14:48 - 1:14:49] ▶
Like why would she do that?
[1:14:49 - 1:14:50] ▶
Why would she do that?
[1:14:50 - 1:14:51] ▶
And we were just talking, what would she do that?
[1:14:51 - 1:14:53] ▶
We were driving over here and you were telling me about buzz Aldrin.
[1:14:53 - 1:14:56] ▶
It's the second man to walk on the moon.
[1:14:57 - 1:14:58] ▶
His sister, what did she say?
[1:14:59 - 1:15:01] ▶
I'll let you repeat it.
[1:15:01 - 1:15:02] ▶
So, well, getting back to Roswell for a brief moment,
[1:15:02 - 1:15:06] ▶
transition of her, no, because it actually relate,
[1:15:06 - 1:15:09] ▶
this story also relates to this as well.
[1:15:09 - 1:15:11] ▶
So Mickey Rooney, I was working on a movie set,
[1:15:11 - 1:15:14] ▶
called The Legend of Obie Taggart in New Mexico.
[1:15:14 - 1:15:17] ▶
And I was working on my first film,
[1:15:17 - 1:15:19] ▶
and I was an extra, I was a prison guard.
[1:15:19 - 1:15:22] ▶
And I get the guy, whoa, so what else do you like to do?
[1:15:22 - 1:15:27] ▶
So I mean, you know, and I was like, oh, here we go.
[1:15:27 - 1:15:30] ▶
You know, and I told Mickey Rooney and his wife, Jan Rooney,
[1:15:30 - 1:15:33] ▶
and whoever else was there.
[1:15:33 - 1:15:35] ▶
Oh, I'm doing this talking to you, oh, and oh,
[1:15:35 - 1:15:38] ▶
and then Jan Rooney goes, my dad was a general in Roswell in 47.
[1:15:38 - 1:15:43] ▶
And he told me that if the truth about Roswell
[1:15:46 - 1:15:51] ▶
came out, it would have a devastating impact
[1:15:52 - 1:15:55] ▶
on organized religion.
[1:15:55 - 1:15:57] ▶
She said, that's what her dad told.
[1:15:57 - 1:15:58] ▶
She's probably still alive.
[1:15:58 - 1:16:00] ▶
So anyway, they both knew Buzz Aldrin.
[1:16:00 - 1:16:04] ▶
And they're like, we can connect you with Buzz Aldrin
[1:16:04 - 1:16:06] ▶
because I remember being out in the balcony,
[1:16:06 - 1:16:08] ▶
we've been friends with him for decades,
[1:16:08 - 1:16:09] ▶
and we'd be out in the balcony hanging out,
[1:16:09 - 1:16:11] ▶
and he would tell us he's crazy, you have both stories.
[1:16:11 - 1:16:14] ▶
Really, Buzz Aldrin landed on the moon with Neil Armstrong, yes.
[1:16:14 - 1:16:17] ▶
We'll get you an interview.
[1:16:18 - 1:16:20] ▶
Well, while that was happening,
[1:16:20 - 1:16:21] ▶
and I was working on my first film,
[1:16:21 - 1:16:23] ▶
that I ultimately sold the Discovery Channel,
[1:16:23 - 1:16:25] ▶
a buddy of mine was working as,
[1:16:26 - 1:16:29] ▶
he was working as a bartender at an art gallery.
[1:16:29 - 1:16:33] ▶
They had a particular opening,
[1:16:34 - 1:16:35] ▶
and he met a woman named Fe and Potter,
[1:16:35 - 1:16:37] ▶
and Fe and Potter was Buzz Aldrin's sister.
[1:16:37 - 1:16:39] ▶
So now I meet with Fe and Potter at a restaurant
[1:16:39 - 1:16:43] ▶
in Larkspur called the Left Bank.
[1:16:43 - 1:16:45] ▶
We meet, she's like, my brother told me
[1:16:45 - 1:16:50] ▶
about a UFO encounter that he had
[1:16:50 - 1:16:53] ▶
while piloting a military jet.
[1:16:53 - 1:16:56] ▶
I'll be honest with you, I can't remember
[1:16:56 - 1:16:58] ▶
she said it happened in the 50s,
[1:16:58 - 1:16:59] ▶
or if it happened in the 60s,
[1:16:59 - 1:17:01] ▶
but she said he was rattled to the core,
[1:17:01 - 1:17:04] ▶
that he chased a disc,
[1:17:04 - 1:17:06] ▶
as high as his plane would go,
[1:17:06 - 1:17:07] ▶
or to the point where it was gonna be dangerous
[1:17:07 - 1:17:10] ▶
if he went any more,
[1:17:10 - 1:17:11] ▶
but he was really rattled, it was a disc, according to her.
[1:17:11 - 1:17:14] ▶
Then she said, the other thing that he had told her
[1:17:15 - 1:17:18] ▶
was that they were followed by something to the moon.
[1:17:18 - 1:17:20] ▶
She did not say anything about an encounter on the moon,
[1:17:20 - 1:17:23] ▶
nothing that, but that there was something
[1:17:23 - 1:17:26] ▶
that they encountered, that followed them to the moon,
[1:17:26 - 1:17:28] ▶
that did not appear, that freaked him out.
[1:17:28 - 1:17:32] ▶
I saw this illumination that was moving
[1:17:32 - 1:17:35] ▶
with respect to the stars.
[1:17:35 - 1:17:37] ▶
We were smart enough to not say Houston,
[1:17:37 - 1:17:40] ▶
there's a light out there, it's following us.
[1:17:40 - 1:17:43] ▶
So that's what she told me,
[1:17:44 - 1:17:45] ▶
she's like, I think I can get you an interview with Buzz,
[1:17:45 - 1:17:47] ▶
and I don't know much more of the story you want to tell you,
[1:17:47 - 1:17:48] ▶
which I tell you, I'll go way up.
[1:17:48 - 1:17:50] ▶
So now I've got Mickey Rooney and his sister,
[1:17:52 - 1:17:56] ▶
sorry, Mickey Rooney and Fane Potter,
[1:17:56 - 1:17:59] ▶
Mickey Rooney knows Buzz Aldrin, Fane Potter, Buzz Aldrin's sister,
[1:17:59 - 1:18:03] ▶
both going at Buzz Aldrin saying,
[1:18:03 - 1:18:06] ▶
you need to meet with James Fox.
[1:18:06 - 1:18:07] ▶
So he agrees, Buzz Aldrin.
[1:18:08 - 1:18:11] ▶
And he says, well, I'm on book tour right now,
[1:18:11 - 1:18:13] ▶
and but I'll meet you if you wanna come to Monte Carlo,
[1:18:13 - 1:18:16] ▶
I'll meet you and run a car, though.
[1:18:16 - 1:18:17] ▶
And I'm thinking myself, hell yeah.
[1:18:17 - 1:18:19] ▶
So I borrow the money, excuse me,
[1:18:19 - 1:18:22] ▶
I borrow the money, I get the camera gear,
[1:18:22 - 1:18:25] ▶
get my buddy, Tim Coleman, my partner at the time,
[1:18:25 - 1:18:28] ▶
my girlfriend at the time, Samara,
[1:18:28 - 1:18:30] ▶
and we go to the South of France.
[1:18:30 - 1:18:32] ▶
Actually, we flew to Paris and we took a high speed train
[1:18:32 - 1:18:34] ▶
down to Monte Carlo.
[1:18:34 - 1:18:36] ▶
And I was like, when I got there,
[1:18:36 - 1:18:37] ▶
I was like, oh my God, this place is so expensive.
[1:18:37 - 1:18:39] ▶
I think the cheapest hotel I could find was like 400 euros a night.
[1:18:39 - 1:18:42] ▶
Yeah, sounds about right.
[1:18:42 - 1:18:43] ▶
Oh my gosh, I was like, I'm gonna be broke in a couple of days.
[1:18:43 - 1:18:46] ▶
That's like, and Buzz kept like,
[1:18:46 - 1:18:50] ▶
oh, I'll have the meeting on Tuesday.
[1:18:50 - 1:18:52] ▶
You know, I was like, Monday, it was like Tuesday,
[1:18:52 - 1:18:53] ▶
I'm like, oh, I got some, well Wednesday,
[1:18:53 - 1:18:55] ▶
then I got to Thursday and I was like,
[1:18:55 - 1:18:57] ▶
with all due respects, so I traveled all the way here
[1:18:57 - 1:19:00] ▶
just to meet with you, got the cameras going,
[1:19:00 - 1:19:02] ▶
I'm all ready to go.
[1:19:02 - 1:19:04] ▶
And I can't really afford to stay here forever.
[1:19:05 - 1:19:08] ▶
You know, he goes, okay, okay, okay.
[1:19:08 - 1:19:10] ▶
Well, meet me, let's just say it was a Friday.
[1:19:10 - 1:19:12] ▶
Meet me tomorrow in the lobby, my hotel lobby.
[1:19:12 - 1:19:14] ▶
He said to me, no camera, don't have cameras rolling.
[1:19:16 - 1:19:18] ▶
I said, I won't have any cameras rolling on each of the lobby.
[1:19:18 - 1:19:21] ▶
So I show up a little early.
[1:19:21 - 1:19:23] ▶
Tim Coleman, I have photographs of this somewhere.
[1:19:23 - 1:19:26] ▶
Tim probably still does.
[1:19:26 - 1:19:27] ▶
And a girl from the time of Samara sitting down at a cafe
[1:19:27 - 1:19:30] ▶
and we're having like a croissant, some coffee,
[1:19:30 - 1:19:33] ▶
and the concierge comes over.
[1:19:33 - 1:19:35] ▶
And he says, Mr. Fox, you have a fun call.
[1:19:35 - 1:19:38] ▶
I actually speak for him.
[1:19:38 - 1:19:39] ▶
One of my, one of my few college accomplishments,
[1:19:39 - 1:19:42] ▶
To put it in there, François.
[1:19:43 - 1:19:44] ▶
Weege, a part come to put part, Savoir.
[1:19:44 - 1:19:46] ▶
Oh, chasseau, chasseau.
[1:19:50 - 1:19:51] ▶
Oh, chasseau, chasseau, chasseau,
[1:19:51 - 1:19:53] ▶
son son son son, chère, Faisy,
[1:19:53 - 1:19:54] ▶
he's done, he's done, he's done, he's done, he's done.
[1:19:54 - 1:19:55] ▶
So anyway, so he goes over and he says,
[1:19:56 - 1:19:59] ▶
Mr. Fox is a telephone call for you.
[1:19:59 - 1:20:02] ▶
Mr. Aldrin, and I say, oh, okay.
[1:20:02 - 1:20:04] ▶
I was, I was assuming he was going to be like,
[1:20:05 - 1:20:07] ▶
hey, I'll be right down.
[1:20:07 - 1:20:09] ▶
You know, I was like, yes, go, pick up the phone.
[1:20:09 - 1:20:11] ▶
I'm not doing the interview.
[1:20:12 - 1:20:14] ▶
I said, I said, what, what do you, what do you mean?
[1:20:14 - 1:20:18] ▶
You're not doing it.
[1:20:18 - 1:20:19] ▶
It was like, I can't do it.
[1:20:19 - 1:20:21] ▶
He's Paul Allen, just invested in SETI,
[1:20:21 - 1:20:23] ▶
and he got labeled of, of UFO freak or something.
[1:20:23 - 1:20:26] ▶
And I can't jeopardize my initiative.
[1:20:26 - 1:20:28] ▶
I'm working with Congress right now.
[1:20:28 - 1:20:29] ▶
I'm trying to get money to develop a rocket.
[1:20:29 - 1:20:31] ▶
It's going to help put civilians into space.
[1:20:31 - 1:20:33] ▶
He's implying that he has something to say about UFO,
[1:20:35 - 1:20:38] ▶
but if he did, it would hurt his reputation.
[1:20:38 - 1:20:40] ▶
And then he said, he said,
[1:20:40 - 1:20:42] ▶
and how's my story going to change anything anyway?
[1:20:42 - 1:20:45] ▶
And I said, well, with all due respect, sir,
[1:20:45 - 1:20:47] ▶
people of your caliber coming forward
[1:20:47 - 1:20:48] ▶
really helps elevate this topic.
[1:20:48 - 1:20:51] ▶
Your testimony would be paramount to do that.
[1:20:51 - 1:20:56] ▶
And remember, this isn't the 90s, right?
[1:20:56 - 1:20:58] ▶
Yeah, probably the late 90s.
[1:20:59 - 1:21:01] ▶
I talked to him, but yeah, it was a while ago.
[1:21:01 - 1:21:04] ▶
And so he's like, well, I can't, I'm sorry.
[1:21:04 - 1:21:07] ▶
It's not going to happen.
[1:21:07 - 1:21:08] ▶
So that was devastated, like devastated.
[1:21:08 - 1:21:13] ▶
Yeah, I mean, that's that.
[1:21:14 - 1:21:15] ▶
And then that would have been an earth shattering.
[1:21:15 - 1:21:18] ▶
I was, it took me a year to get over that one, right?
[1:21:20 - 1:21:23] ▶
So you know, you know, ask for not signed NDAs, take it.
[1:21:24 - 1:21:27] ▶
I had fast forward probably 10 years.
[1:21:33 - 1:21:36] ▶
And again, I have to remember exactly when I've had
[1:21:36 - 1:21:38] ▶
to talk to my buddy Tim, but it was late 90s and almost positive.
[1:21:38 - 1:21:41] ▶
Anyway, I break the story of the governor of Arizona
[1:21:41 - 1:21:46] ▶
Well, I saw a huge craft just kind of come right over a
[1:21:47 - 1:21:52] ▶
It was, you know, it was just breathtaking.
[1:21:55 - 1:21:58] ▶
The fact that he saw the K, he saw the massive UFO that he said
[1:21:58 - 1:22:01] ▶
was just had to be on the road because it was over a mile
[1:22:01 - 1:22:04] ▶
from wingtip to wingtip.
[1:22:04 - 1:22:05] ▶
This is the famous Phoenix lights.
[1:22:05 - 1:22:07] ▶
It's like the 1997, March 13th.
[1:22:07 - 1:22:10] ▶
In 1997, thousands of people in Phoenix, Arizona
[1:22:10 - 1:22:15] ▶
witnessed a massive V-shaped formation of lights moving silently across the sky.
[1:22:15 - 1:22:21] ▶
Known as the Phoenix lights, the phenomenon sparked widespread speculation
[1:22:21 - 1:22:26] ▶
While some officials claimed the lights were military flares,
[1:22:28 - 1:22:31] ▶
many witnesses remained convinced they saw something otherworldly.
[1:22:31 - 1:22:36] ▶
So I broke that story.
[1:22:36 - 1:22:39] ▶
I interviewed the governor of Arizona five-semitine.
[1:22:39 - 1:22:41] ▶
We had become friends.
[1:22:41 - 1:22:44] ▶
And that catapulted me into, I mean, I got invitations on to every talk show.
[1:22:44 - 1:22:52] ▶
I mean, it was unbelievable.
[1:22:52 - 1:22:54] ▶
And five actually said, James is the one that broke the story with me.
[1:22:54 - 1:22:59] ▶
He's the one that approached me.
[1:22:59 - 1:23:00] ▶
He should get credit.
[1:23:00 - 1:23:01] ▶
We're going on together.
[1:23:01 - 1:23:02] ▶
Whatever we do, we're doing together.
[1:23:02 - 1:23:03] ▶
It's such an amazing story, by the way.
[1:23:04 - 1:23:05] ▶
Because he's a governor, former Air Force guy.
[1:23:06 - 1:23:09] ▶
And in the beginning, he sort of downplays the thing.
[1:23:10 - 1:23:11] ▶
I think a lot of it in the press conference.
[1:23:12 - 1:23:13] ▶
And then he comes out later, thinks to you, saying, no, not only do I think it was real
[1:23:13 - 1:23:18] ▶
and do I believe all the witnesses, but I saw it with my own eyes, which is just so profound.
[1:23:18 - 1:23:24] ▶
You have a governor of Arizona saying, and McCain was asking for information on all this
[1:23:24 - 1:23:29] ▶
He's a friend with McCain too.
[1:23:30 - 1:23:31] ▶
I mean, that's another case where it's just like how much evidence do you need?
[1:23:32 - 1:23:34] ▶
You know, he could have landed his airplane.
[1:23:35 - 1:23:36] ▶
He was flying around and he saw it.
[1:23:37 - 1:23:39] ▶
And so we're going into Phoenix.
[1:23:39 - 1:23:41] ▶
And we're, I think it was Sky Harbor.
[1:23:41 - 1:23:43] ▶
And there's these bank of lights, six lights in the shape of a triangle going back right
[1:23:43 - 1:23:52] ▶
There's a lot there.
[1:23:53 - 1:23:54] ▶
So anyway, so I break this story and the relevance of this will come in a second.
[1:23:56 - 1:24:00] ▶
I break this story and we're going to invite it on Jay Leno.
[1:24:00 - 1:24:03] ▶
We're getting invited.
[1:24:04 - 1:24:05] ▶
I mean, all these chosen.
[1:24:05 - 1:24:06] ▶
So we pick Larry King among other things.
[1:24:06 - 1:24:09] ▶
And I'm going on Larry King with five Simon 10 and guess who's in the green room?
[1:24:09 - 1:24:14] ▶
Two distinguished gentlemen, an astronaut, a governor.
[1:24:15 - 1:24:20] ▶
Different views from what you've seen.
[1:24:20 - 1:24:22] ▶
I'm not sure what you're saying.
[1:24:23 - 1:24:24] ▶
I'm not sure what you're saying.
[1:24:24 - 1:24:25] ▶
You're waiting for people to come forward.
[1:24:25 - 1:24:27] ▶
People have come forward.
[1:24:27 - 1:24:28] ▶
High ranking military officials have come forward and talked about the validity.
[1:24:28 - 1:24:31] ▶
The last contact I'd have with Buzz Aldrin was roughly 10 years earlier when he stood
[1:24:32 - 1:24:35] ▶
me up in South of France.
[1:24:35 - 1:24:37] ▶
Is that a coincidence?
[1:24:37 - 1:24:38] ▶
He was a day invited to one.
[1:24:39 - 1:24:41] ▶
So I'm going on live, Larry King live with Buzz Aldrin and five Simon 10.
[1:24:43 - 1:24:48] ▶
Buzz was going to be on with you.
[1:24:49 - 1:24:51] ▶
Larry's just like space like you have a like what?
[1:24:53 - 1:24:56] ▶
I didn't organize it.
[1:24:58 - 1:24:59] ▶
You know, but I'm looking.
[1:25:00 - 1:25:01] ▶
I'm going to picture of I got a picture of him in the group and the woman goes, no picture
[1:25:01 - 1:25:04] ▶
I shot a picture of a buzz buzz getting his makeup put on.
[1:25:06 - 1:25:08] ▶
And he kind of looks over at me.
[1:25:09 - 1:25:11] ▶
I got that somewhere.
[1:25:12 - 1:25:14] ▶
So I said to I said to five, I said five.
[1:25:16 - 1:25:18] ▶
Oh, man, I'm going to like this.
[1:25:19 - 1:25:21] ▶
And I told him a little bit of the story would happen.
[1:25:21 - 1:25:24] ▶
And I was like, God, he stood me up and I sent all this money and bought all this effort
[1:25:24 - 1:25:28] ▶
through to the South.
[1:25:28 - 1:25:29] ▶
And he goes, James, this is an iconic figure of like this guy is, I mean, you cannot disrespect
[1:25:30 - 1:25:38] ▶
him and you need to like.
[1:25:38 - 1:25:41] ▶
So I was like, you know, you're right.
[1:25:41 - 1:25:42] ▶
And I was like, I'm going to be respectful, but I sat there knowing what I knew and I watched
[1:25:43 - 1:25:48] ▶
him lie on television and it was really frustrating.
[1:25:48 - 1:25:52] ▶
And I did try to call him out a little bit.
[1:25:52 - 1:25:53] ▶
And then I talked to fan Potter right afterwards because of course he saw it.
[1:25:53 - 1:25:59] ▶
You should have called him out.
[1:25:59 - 1:26:00] ▶
You should have been like, hey, you kind of did a little bit interview and you were going
[1:26:00 - 1:26:03] ▶
And I didn't know if his, if he was going, if she was going to be okay with me, put it
[1:26:04 - 1:26:08] ▶
out in her name on national TV.
[1:26:08 - 1:26:10] ▶
No, you know, you're going to be cool.
[1:26:10 - 1:26:12] ▶
You did the right thing, you know, but I was really frustrated about looking his eyes
[1:26:12 - 1:26:16] ▶
and like, he was like, so I was like, I did bring it up.
[1:26:16 - 1:26:19] ▶
And actually, there was a guy who did a, a film on it.
[1:26:19 - 1:26:25] ▶
Who covered it, space film, Darcy Weir.
[1:26:25 - 1:26:30] ▶
And he kind of, he found the clip on Larry King and interviewed me about it.
[1:26:30 - 1:26:34] ▶
It was like, you know, that was, that was kind of frustrating.
[1:26:34 - 1:26:37] ▶
But anyway, so I talked to fan Potter.
[1:26:37 - 1:26:40] ▶
I actually went to her 80th birthday and she said, somebody's gotten to him.
[1:26:40 - 1:26:45] ▶
I said, what do you mean?
[1:26:45 - 1:26:46] ▶
She goes, somebody got to him.
[1:26:46 - 1:26:47] ▶
He goes, he wouldn't even talk to me about it anymore.
[1:26:47 - 1:26:49] ▶
So she told me, I swear that happened.
[1:26:49 - 1:26:52] ▶
So anyway, so yeah, there's again, a classic example of how difficult it is.
[1:26:54 - 1:27:01] ▶
Every single interview is difficult to get the better the witness, the better the
[1:27:01 - 1:27:07] ▶
case, the more unlikely they're ever going to want to talk.
[1:27:07 - 1:27:10] ▶
And the more, the more prestige the person has, the more they have to lose by going on
[1:27:11 - 1:27:16] ▶
record, it's not a career enhancing move for often not.
[1:27:16 - 1:27:21] ▶
Things are changing a little bit.
[1:27:23 - 1:27:24] ▶
The you had Neil Armstrong, I think it was winning the congressional medal of honor or something
[1:27:25 - 1:27:28] ▶
in the 80s and he goes, there are great ideas undiscovered, breakthroughs available to
[1:27:28 - 1:27:35] ▶
those who can remove one of truth's protective layers.
[1:27:35 - 1:27:42] ▶
There are places to go beyond belief.
[1:27:42 - 1:27:45] ▶
And then he comes back obviously from the mission itself and he just looks so spooked.
[1:27:45 - 1:27:50] ▶
He looks like a different person.
[1:27:51 - 1:27:52] ▶
What's that chamber they put everybody into?
[1:27:52 - 1:27:55] ▶
Remember that for several days they had to be in that chamber just to think, yeah, yeah,
[1:27:55 - 1:27:59] ▶
yeah, well, he didn't speak to anybody for three weeks.
[1:27:59 - 1:28:01] ▶
The look in his eyes is like they'd seen God go, go, go, yeah, 100%.
[1:28:01 - 1:28:07] ▶
I don't really got me thinking too, you know.
[1:28:08 - 1:28:10] ▶
I mean, you know, when Edgar Mitchell, who your little friend had a conversion experience
[1:28:11 - 1:28:16] ▶
on the way back from Apollo 4, and he got the way he describes it is so amazing.
[1:28:16 - 1:28:21] ▶
It's like he's looking at Earth and he's like, you just see how small, like trivial,
[1:28:21 - 1:28:27] ▶
like the infighting and the tribalism and how petty it all is.
[1:28:27 - 1:28:31] ▶
And it's almost like his consciousness gets elevated and he realizes just how, how much
[1:28:31 - 1:28:36] ▶
of a bottle neck or chokehold, you know, earthly consciousness is, you know, we're in this
[1:28:36 - 1:28:42] ▶
like holding pattern and it gets like extremely frustrated about that.
[1:28:42 - 1:28:46] ▶
And then he comes back and he dedicates the rest of his life to consciousness research.
[1:28:46 - 1:28:50] ▶
For 40 years, I've been studying the properties of consciousness and it goes throughout all
[1:28:50 - 1:28:55] ▶
And it begins with the quantum property that when particles run a process together and
[1:28:57 - 1:29:03] ▶
they go apart from each other, they maintained their correlation regardless of where they
[1:29:03 - 1:29:08] ▶
Which is just so, so fat.
[1:29:09 - 1:29:11] ▶
Well, any, any, I had something really weird happen to me during the making of, of out
[1:29:11 - 1:29:16] ▶
So we were in the building that I was talking about, the woman who owned the building,
[1:29:18 - 1:29:25] ▶
whose husband or boyfriend at the time, I wish I could remember exactly told her that
[1:29:25 - 1:29:30] ▶
that he was a very prominent scientist that they had recovered this, that, that, that
[1:29:30 - 1:29:35] ▶
a flying saucer, UFO and aliens were recovering, told her that in early 50s.
[1:29:35 - 1:29:39] ▶
I mean, that building, I'm editing out of the blue.
[1:29:39 - 1:29:43] ▶
It's probably late 90s or 2000 and we get into an argument, me and this guy Tim Coleman,
[1:29:43 - 1:29:52] ▶
who I just worked with a little bit on the program.
[1:29:52 - 1:29:55] ▶
And he's like, buddy, how may, you know, I just got to be like this.
[1:29:55 - 1:29:59] ▶
And I said, you know, Tim actually, no, I'm the director and it's going to be, and he's
[1:29:59 - 1:30:02] ▶
And you know, smart guy, but I felt really adamant that I wanted it like this.
[1:30:04 - 1:30:08] ▶
And he wanted that, he got really angry.
[1:30:08 - 1:30:10] ▶
And he stormed out of the room and because I just put my foot down, you know, I was like,
[1:30:10 - 1:30:15] ▶
I'm sorry, I'm not doing that.
[1:30:15 - 1:30:17] ▶
You know, and he wanted to add like cheesy smoke to a scene, you know, the kind of stuff
[1:30:17 - 1:30:22] ▶
that one expects with a UFO film back in the day, you know, all the things I wanted to
[1:30:22 - 1:30:26] ▶
He was like, he wanted, he thought it would spice things up a little bit or something.
[1:30:27 - 1:30:29] ▶
And I just, it was a hard no.
[1:30:29 - 1:30:31] ▶
Well, he got really aggravated.
[1:30:32 - 1:30:33] ▶
Oh, slanted or off he went.
[1:30:34 - 1:30:38] ▶
One minutes later, sitting there, it's on the third floor.
[1:30:38 - 1:30:41] ▶
There's a balcony, but I'm not on the balcony.
[1:30:41 - 1:30:44] ▶
I'm inside still editing.
[1:30:44 - 1:30:46] ▶
I get a visual image in my head.
[1:30:46 - 1:30:48] ▶
I see him with a key.
[1:30:48 - 1:30:52] ▶
It's like a film strip.
[1:30:53 - 1:30:54] ▶
Key in the right front fender of my car.
[1:30:54 - 1:30:57] ▶
I was so certain of it that I didn't even need the validation of walking out on the balcony
[1:30:58 - 1:31:05] ▶
and looking down on the street below.
[1:31:05 - 1:31:07] ▶
That's how positive I was.
[1:31:07 - 1:31:08] ▶
I just carried on editing five hours later, six hours later, finished up the editing,
[1:31:08 - 1:31:13] ▶
packed up my gear, walked down to go leave and there lo and behold, was the key scratch
[1:31:13 - 1:31:19] ▶
on the panel that I saw that it was playing his day.
[1:31:19 - 1:31:23] ▶
So I called him, told him, hey, I know you had a frustration and you keyed my car.
[1:31:23 - 1:31:33] ▶
I demand you take that back.
[1:31:33 - 1:31:34] ▶
I demand you retract that statement.
[1:31:34 - 1:31:36] ▶
How dare you accuse me such a thing as a dim?
[1:31:36 - 1:31:38] ▶
Listen, I know you're upset, but I saw it.
[1:31:38 - 1:31:41] ▶
I know you were angry.
[1:31:44 - 1:31:46] ▶
But I'm not going to go around telling it, just get it fixed and we'll put it behind
[1:31:46 - 1:31:51] ▶
It's not a big deal.
[1:31:52 - 1:31:53] ▶
And he, I demand you, click about three or four days later, he calls me up and goes,
[1:31:53 - 1:31:57] ▶
you're bloody psychic.
[1:31:57 - 1:31:59] ▶
I said, I don't know, man.
[1:32:00 - 1:32:01] ▶
I saw it when it was happening.
[1:32:01 - 1:32:03] ▶
How do you explain that, right?
[1:32:03 - 1:32:06] ▶
How do you explain that?
[1:32:06 - 1:32:07] ▶
I couldn't, I didn't ask for it.
[1:32:07 - 1:32:10] ▶
I didn't like, and I had proof that it happened.
[1:32:10 - 1:32:12] ▶
I just got, you know, it happened.
[1:32:12 - 1:32:14] ▶
I knew exactly where it was.
[1:32:15 - 1:32:17] ▶
It was like, I was already outside looking down at my car.
[1:32:17 - 1:32:20] ▶
Are you explaining that's really weird?
[1:32:20 - 1:32:21] ▶
I actually told how I put off about it.
[1:32:21 - 1:32:22] ▶
Well, I was going to say he could explain it.
[1:32:22 - 1:32:24] ▶
But I know, but I told her I was like, I had that experience.
[1:32:24 - 1:32:27] ▶
Well, there's something about, you know, there are two models of consciousness.
[1:32:27 - 1:32:32] ▶
One is that it is produced simply by the senses and it's produced locally.
[1:32:32 - 1:32:38] ▶
And then there's another where the body is a biological collapsing function on a default
[1:32:38 - 1:32:44] ▶
state of greater perception or greater omniscience.
[1:32:44 - 1:32:48] ▶
And so actually if you cut off certain senses or silent certain things, are the transmission
[1:32:48 - 1:32:54] ▶
Yeah, like sensory deprivation, you sense more, not less.
[1:32:55 - 1:33:00] ▶
So the body is like a transmitter.
[1:33:00 - 1:33:02] ▶
Like you have unconsciousness, you have the binding problem of consciousness, right?
[1:33:02 - 1:33:05] ▶
You have the battery.
[1:33:05 - 1:33:07] ▶
So you have like, you know, the occipital lobe, you have the prefrontal cortex reasoning.
[1:33:07 - 1:33:12] ▶
You have Warnockies area, which is reading comprehension.
[1:33:12 - 1:33:14] ▶
You have Broca's area, which is speech.
[1:33:14 - 1:33:16] ▶
You have the cerebellum, which is movement, right?
[1:33:16 - 1:33:18] ▶
We have no idea though how those all mesh together to create our seamless perception of,
[1:33:18 - 1:33:24] ▶
like it's almost like you're watching a movie when you're conscious.
[1:33:24 - 1:33:28] ▶
And then if you look at the radio, a radio has its own binding problem.
[1:33:31 - 1:33:34] ▶
So you have the capacitors, the battery, the antenna, you have all the constituent parts.
[1:33:34 - 1:33:39] ▶
But you have no idea how it's playing with all these four seasons.
[1:33:39 - 1:33:43] ▶
And you could take out a battery and it'll stop playing, but that's just one of the components.
[1:33:43 - 1:33:49] ▶
And in fact, you'd have to know that it's tapping into something much larger.
[1:33:49 - 1:33:52] ▶
It's tapping into an electromagnetic frequency that's allowing it to play the actual
[1:33:52 - 1:33:58] ▶
And so maybe, you know, this is something I've sort of started to get interested in.
[1:33:59 - 1:34:05] ▶
Maybe there's an expanded version of electromagnetism that allows for more wave types than just your
[1:34:05 - 1:34:11] ▶
traditional transverse hertzean wave.
[1:34:11 - 1:34:15] ▶
And then, you know, maybe your brain is sort of an antenna.
[1:34:15 - 1:34:18] ▶
And William James is a big fan of this called trawl transmission.
[1:34:18 - 1:34:22] ▶
Experiencers have a certain...
[1:34:22 - 1:34:24] ▶
What about a nucleus and putamen and the basal ganglia?
[1:34:24 - 1:34:28] ▶
The caught ate putamen, basal ganglia is at the core of many of the, let's say, the more
[1:34:28 - 1:34:35] ▶
mainstream things that we were claiming even before we had our first publication.
[1:34:35 - 1:34:39] ▶
That caught ate is basically...
[1:34:39 - 1:34:41] ▶
Is a central node involved in intuitive and other, well, crystallized and fluid intelligence?
[1:34:41 - 1:34:52] ▶
That could be the part that is the antenna.
[1:34:52 - 1:34:54] ▶
Because when people make...
[1:34:55 - 1:34:56] ▶
Going on around us, but some people can detect it better than others, right?
[1:34:56 - 1:35:00] ▶
And it allows you to...
[1:35:00 - 1:35:01] ▶
And it's the neuronal density in that area that determines your ability to do this.
[1:35:02 - 1:35:06] ▶
And it's this ability to act on instinct.
[1:35:06 - 1:35:09] ▶
So it's not based on the senses that you're picking up.
[1:35:09 - 1:35:11] ▶
In fact, that area when hooked up to an FMRI lights up when somebody makes a, quote, unquote,
[1:35:11 - 1:35:18] ▶
brilliant move and go.
[1:35:18 - 1:35:19] ▶
And a brilliant move is a move that makes no sense rationally.
[1:35:19 - 1:35:24] ▶
It only makes sense in the context of a future endpoint of the person went in.
[1:35:24 - 1:35:28] ▶
So it's almost based on their opponent making some dumb move that they somehow psychically
[1:35:28 - 1:35:33] ▶
knew about to begin with.
[1:35:33 - 1:35:35] ▶
So that part of the brain, I do think that might be a really core part of all of this.
[1:35:35 - 1:35:41] ▶
I didn't even know that that even existed.
[1:35:41 - 1:35:44] ▶
I didn't even know about remote viewing at that point.
[1:35:44 - 1:35:46] ▶
And the remote view...
[1:35:47 - 1:35:48] ▶
So you just got to down and spontaneously.
[1:35:49 - 1:35:51] ▶
And I was saying, I don't even need to walk out to the balcony, which was right there.
[1:35:53 - 1:35:57] ▶
I would have seen it.
[1:35:59 - 1:36:00] ▶
I didn't need that level of validation because I saw it.
[1:36:00 - 1:36:02] ▶
But having people have like pre-cognitive dreams, people have experiences like this.
[1:36:04 - 1:36:09] ▶
And you have in Stargate, the Help Put Offs program, it was up for funding and defunding
[1:36:10 - 1:36:14] ▶
every year from 1972 to 1995.
[1:36:14 - 1:36:17] ▶
And every single year it got refunded.
[1:36:17 - 1:36:19] ▶
In the 1980s, the Defense Intelligence Agency began Project Stargate.
[1:36:19 - 1:36:26] ▶
It was top secret, it's actually beyond top secret.
[1:36:26 - 1:36:29] ▶
Dean Raiden, a scientist, worked on the program that employed about a dozen psychics and mediums
[1:36:29 - 1:36:36] ▶
To see whether someone in the United States could spy on other countries from here.
[1:36:38 - 1:36:45] ▶
Just using their mind.
[1:36:46 - 1:36:47] ▶
And you have to think, you know, the amount of optical scrutiny of program like that would
[1:36:50 - 1:36:56] ▶
get, they cut it off if it weren't working.
[1:36:56 - 1:36:58] ▶
And you have the top graduate, Joseph McMannical winning a Legion of Merit for over 200 cases
[1:36:59 - 1:37:02] ▶
where he's adding to real intelligence.
[1:37:02 - 1:37:05] ▶
And then you have skeptics, Jessica Uts, who's a statistician at Stanford, Ray Hyman,
[1:37:05 - 1:37:09] ▶
who's a skeptic at Oregon.
[1:37:09 - 1:37:11] ▶
They're coming in, they're saying, we think this is BS.
[1:37:11 - 1:37:13] ▶
They go, they look at the data that's been, you know, revealed post-2017.
[1:37:13 - 1:37:18] ▶
And they come out saying, we think there's something here that's unexplainable.
[1:37:18 - 1:37:21] ▶
Well, didn't they have a Nestor 71 go down or a spy plane or U2 or something in Africa?
[1:37:21 - 1:37:27] ▶
In 1995, former President Jimmy Carter revealed that the CIA, without his knowledge, consulted
[1:37:29 - 1:37:36] ▶
a psychic to locate a missing government plane in Africa.
[1:37:36 - 1:37:40] ▶
The plane had crashed in Zaire during his presidency.
[1:37:40 - 1:37:44] ▶
And despite extensive satellite searches, it was still missing.
[1:37:44 - 1:37:48] ▶
The psychic from California entered a trance and provided specific latitude and longitude
[1:37:48 - 1:37:54] ▶
When the CIA focused their satellites on that spot, they found the plane.
[1:37:56 - 1:38:00] ▶
That's pretty incredible.
[1:38:00 - 1:38:02] ▶
Yeah, and it had Russian weaponry on board.
[1:38:04 - 1:38:05] ▶
So it's, yeah, what are the chance?
[1:38:06 - 1:38:08] ▶
It's beyond probability.
[1:38:08 - 1:38:10] ▶
There's something here.
[1:38:10 - 1:38:11] ▶
I think why science doesn't accept it is because it is not fully repeatable.
[1:38:12 - 1:38:18] ▶
And it's hard to turn into instrumentation.
[1:38:18 - 1:38:20] ▶
But you know what that means?
[1:38:20 - 1:38:23] ▶
It means we're in the Stone Age.
[1:38:23 - 1:38:24] ▶
It's like with quantum mechanics, you had black body radiation, which occurred and we
[1:38:24 - 1:38:28] ▶
figured that out in the 1860s.
[1:38:28 - 1:38:31] ▶
We didn't exactly know that light came in Quanta.
[1:38:31 - 1:38:34] ▶
And so there's no way to harness any of this stuff or do anything with it.
[1:38:34 - 1:38:37] ▶
You couldn't build semiconductors and all the stuff we used, you know, quantum field
[1:38:37 - 1:38:42] ▶
theory for now because we just didn't understand it.
[1:38:42 - 1:38:46] ▶
But there's this anomaly that's happening.
[1:38:46 - 1:38:48] ▶
That's, it's not fully repeatable.
[1:38:48 - 1:38:50] ▶
You can't instrumentalize it.
[1:38:50 - 1:38:51] ▶
But it's a thing that's measurable.
[1:38:51 - 1:38:52] ▶
Just because you can't explain it doesn't mean it doesn't.
[1:38:52 - 1:38:54] ▶
In fact, that leads to the next paradigm.
[1:38:55 - 1:38:58] ▶
Anomalies lead to the next pair.
[1:38:58 - 1:38:59] ▶
If you read Thomas Kuhn's structure of scientific revolution, you have to systematically
[1:38:59 - 1:39:03] ▶
look at the anomalies because that breaks the current model.
[1:39:03 - 1:39:07] ▶
No, it's fascinating.
[1:39:12 - 1:39:13] ▶
And I'm kind of a nuts and bolts guy.
[1:39:13 - 1:39:14] ▶
But I'm also have had some experiences that have to get me to be open to, you know, who
[1:39:17 - 1:39:22] ▶
Well, I think it's empowering.
[1:39:23 - 1:39:24] ▶
I mean, it happened to me.
[1:39:24 - 1:39:25] ▶
And I'm not out there trying to prove to anybody that happened.
[1:39:27 - 1:39:29] ▶
I fair enough if you don't believe me, that's fine.
[1:39:29 - 1:39:30] ▶
Yeah, but I think I think it's good to share because I think nine out of 10 people, if
[1:39:30 - 1:39:36] ▶
you actually probe a little bit more, you're like, hey, have you ever had like a really
[1:39:36 - 1:39:38] ▶
weird synchronicity that just makes no sense?
[1:39:38 - 1:39:41] ▶
Everybody's had that.
[1:39:42 - 1:39:43] ▶
They're completely cut off.
[1:39:43 - 1:39:44] ▶
I was with my cousin Ian on the street.
[1:39:47 - 1:39:48] ▶
San Francisco, we were we were attending an older buddy of ours.
[1:39:48 - 1:39:51] ▶
18th birthday party.
[1:39:51 - 1:39:54] ▶
Our parents at the time, somebody dropped us off.
[1:39:54 - 1:39:56] ▶
We're going to go into the building and San Francisco downtown.
[1:39:56 - 1:39:58] ▶
And some creepy guy approached us and he was going to mug us or do something.
[1:40:00 - 1:40:04] ▶
I don't know what any.
[1:40:04 - 1:40:06] ▶
My cousin, he was on one side.
[1:40:07 - 1:40:08] ▶
I was on the other side.
[1:40:08 - 1:40:09] ▶
And I was scared man.
[1:40:09 - 1:40:10] ▶
We were all in the building.
[1:40:12 - 1:40:13] ▶
I was like, what's happening?
[1:40:13 - 1:40:14] ▶
And we communicated he communicated to me telepathically.
[1:40:14 - 1:40:17] ▶
He said on the count of three, we're going to break.
[1:40:17 - 1:40:19] ▶
You're going to go left.
[1:40:19 - 1:40:20] ▶
I'm going to go right.
[1:40:20 - 1:40:21] ▶
You're going to run as fast you can.
[1:40:21 - 1:40:22] ▶
I'm telling you, I swear and boom, just like there was like instant, we just looked at
[1:40:22 - 1:40:28] ▶
each other and that was the plan.
[1:40:28 - 1:40:30] ▶
But I was in a heightened state of, you know what I mean?
[1:40:30 - 1:40:32] ▶
That's what happened.
[1:40:32 - 1:40:33] ▶
I never questioned it.
[1:40:33 - 1:40:34] ▶
But I'm telling you what happened because exactly we executed exactly like the communication
[1:40:38 - 1:40:42] ▶
Well, I think some of the, sometimes studying alien.
[1:40:43 - 1:40:45] ▶
How do you say that?
[1:40:45 - 1:40:46] ▶
Well, I think humans are way weirder than we realize and there's something we are.
[1:40:47 - 1:40:51] ▶
And the variance between, I'd say the top ape and the, you know, or maybe not even ranking,
[1:40:52 - 1:40:59] ▶
just the variance between like apes or dogs or whatever is just far less wide than the
[1:40:59 - 1:41:04] ▶
variant that their humans are, you ever, you I'm sure because of the line of work you
[1:41:04 - 1:41:09] ▶
You meet people all the time where it's just like, what's going on with you?
[1:41:10 - 1:41:13] ▶
You know, like sometimes it's a very interesting way.
[1:41:13 - 1:41:14] ▶
I don't mean that in that, that in a great way.
[1:41:14 - 1:41:16] ▶
Like, like, there's, you're on some sort of trippy thing and so it's really cool.
[1:41:16 - 1:41:20] ▶
I love going around the world.
[1:41:21 - 1:41:22] ▶
I love meeting with different people, cultures, you know, languages and hearing about the
[1:41:22 - 1:41:26] ▶
phenomenon is fascinating to me, you know, it's like, yeah, I'll give you a good example.
[1:41:26 - 1:41:33] ▶
I met this, this, this Iranian pilot that had this dramatic UFO encounter over Tehran
[1:41:33 - 1:41:40] ▶
I want to say 75 of the Phantom F4 jet.
[1:41:41 - 1:41:45] ▶
The 1976 Tehran UFO incident involved radar and visual sightings of an unidentified flying
[1:41:45 - 1:41:52] ▶
object over Iran on the morning of September 19.
[1:41:52 - 1:41:56] ▶
Two F4 Phantom 2 interceptors from the Imperial Iranian Air Force reported losing instrumentation
[1:41:56 - 1:42:03] ▶
and communications as they approached the object, which were restored upon withdrawal.
[1:42:03 - 1:42:09] ▶
One jet also experienced a temporary weapon systems failure while preparing to engage.
[1:42:09 - 1:42:15] ▶
Instead of trying to make peaceful contact with this thing that was clearly not of this
[1:42:15 - 1:42:21] ▶
world, you tried to shoot it.
[1:42:21 - 1:42:23] ▶
The Defense Intelligence Agency documented the event in a great detail and it was sent
[1:42:24 - 1:42:32] ▶
to NSA, the White House and the CIA.
[1:42:32 - 1:42:37] ▶
The CIA assessment said this case is a classic that meets all necessary conditions for a
[1:42:37 - 1:42:47] ▶
legitimate study of the UFO phenomena.
[1:42:47 - 1:42:51] ▶
And that didn't end well for him.
[1:42:51 - 1:42:52] ▶
He goes, you know, I tell the audience what happened.
[1:42:54 - 1:42:56] ▶
So he was flying an F4 Phantom jet.
[1:42:57 - 1:42:59] ▶
It was it was at night over Tehran Iran.
[1:42:59 - 1:43:02] ▶
I want to say it was 75, but it could have been 76.
[1:43:02 - 1:43:05] ▶
Your audience got to look it up.
[1:43:05 - 1:43:06] ▶
UFO encounter over Tehran.
[1:43:06 - 1:43:07] ▶
His name was Parvist Jafarri.
[1:43:07 - 1:43:11] ▶
And I remember I was working with Leslie Cain and I was about to go down to the bottom of
[1:43:11 - 1:43:14] ▶
the Grand Canyon on a two week expedition.
[1:43:14 - 1:43:16] ▶
Maybe it was almost closer to three week expedition.
[1:43:16 - 1:43:19] ▶
And Leslie and I were putting on this event at the National Press Club in 2007 where we're
[1:43:19 - 1:43:23] ▶
going to have all these high level military and government officials from like seven different
[1:43:23 - 1:43:26] ▶
countries come and convene and talk about the reality of the UFO phenomenon.
[1:43:26 - 1:43:30] ▶
And I thought, yeah, really good example to demonstrate the global nature of what's going
[1:43:30 - 1:43:34] ▶
So she calls me up and I'm about to go down in a canoe and actually a wooden dory with this
[1:43:36 - 1:43:40] ▶
I was shooting a short film on this guy who helped save the Grand Canyon from like five
[1:43:41 - 1:43:45] ▶
introduced dams during the 50s and 60s.
[1:43:45 - 1:43:48] ▶
The name is Martin Litton, amazing guy.
[1:43:48 - 1:43:49] ▶
He was greeted like a king going down the Grand Canyon called Mount River in the Grand
[1:43:53 - 1:44:00] ▶
Anyway, I said, Leslie, I'm going to be off the radar.
[1:44:01 - 1:44:03] ▶
We have a satellite phone under absolute extreme emergency.
[1:44:04 - 1:44:07] ▶
If one of us gets hurt, we can have the satellite phone.
[1:44:07 - 1:44:09] ▶
I'm not going to be reachable all she goes, oh my god, well, we got this event.
[1:44:09 - 1:44:13] ▶
Part of East Jafarri, he needs, you know, it was like some astronomical amount of money
[1:44:14 - 1:44:18] ▶
to go from because they just George Bush at the time had said that it was the axis
[1:44:18 - 1:44:23] ▶
So now they're on the terrorist list and like trying to fly in the United States.
[1:44:24 - 1:44:28] ▶
He's a general North Korea and Russia.
[1:44:28 - 1:44:31] ▶
Yeah, I can't remember, but at the time it didn't help my efforts because I was like, oh
[1:44:31 - 1:44:35] ▶
god, now I need to fly this Iranian general in from Tehran, right?
[1:44:35 - 1:44:40] ▶
So he had to fly to like Dubai or something for a week or two to apply for a visa.
[1:44:40 - 1:44:46] ▶
And I had to put him up in his hotel for like, I don't know, it was a week or it was two
[1:44:46 - 1:44:49] ▶
And it was like really expensive, thousands of thousands of dollars.
[1:44:50 - 1:44:54] ▶
And Leslie says, you know, and that's not even sure that he's going to get his visa.
[1:44:54 - 1:44:58] ▶
What do you want to do?
[1:44:58 - 1:44:59] ▶
I said, so I have to spend, I'll just throw a number out there.
[1:44:59 - 1:45:02] ▶
Five grand, maybe six grand seven grand, whatever it was.
[1:45:02 - 1:45:04] ▶
You know, I don't even know he's going to get a visa and then I have to fly him out on
[1:45:04 - 1:45:07] ▶
And she's like, yeah, but I said, let's go for it.
[1:45:08 - 1:45:11] ▶
Let's green like this.
[1:45:11 - 1:45:12] ▶
So I could go on the grand canyon.
[1:45:14 - 1:45:16] ▶
I come out, got the good news.
[1:45:16 - 1:45:18] ▶
So he comes to DC and it's an incredible encounter.
[1:45:19 - 1:45:22] ▶
He was scrambled to intercept some unknowns or an unknown and he said this object was,
[1:45:24 - 1:45:31] ▶
it was exhibiting a technology.
[1:45:31 - 1:45:33] ▶
This is the seventies that was just so far beyond his jet.
[1:45:33 - 1:45:37] ▶
Like he was like, it would be here and then it would be here in the blink of an eye.
[1:45:37 - 1:45:41] ▶
And it would traverse these miles we were talking about.
[1:45:41 - 1:45:43] ▶
Like, like you said, it would just stop and it was, but he got a lock on it.
[1:45:43 - 1:45:49] ▶
And he got the, I guess he got the green light or the authority to shoot at it, right?
[1:45:49 - 1:45:54] ▶
So he locks on it and he tries to shoot it and his whole cabin, everything locks up
[1:45:54 - 1:46:01] ▶
and he starts spiraling out of the sky or like lose control.
[1:46:01 - 1:46:04] ▶
And he was like, I thought I was going to have to eject at night over, you know, Tehran.
[1:46:04 - 1:46:10] ▶
And then last minute he regained control.
[1:46:10 - 1:46:12] ▶
But then in retrospect, he told me on camera, there was a very intimate, cool moment, you
[1:46:12 - 1:46:19] ▶
know, on reflection of, you know, he had all these years to think about what had actually
[1:46:19 - 1:46:23] ▶
And he goes, you know, my biggest regret was, why did I take a hostile position on this
[1:46:25 - 1:46:29] ▶
I could have communicated with it in a friendly way.
[1:46:30 - 1:46:33] ▶
Like I, you know, like we have an unknown and I just try to shoot it.
[1:46:33 - 1:46:38] ▶
So that was his biggest regret.
[1:46:39 - 1:46:40] ▶
And it was very interesting, but there was also a psychic too.
[1:46:41 - 1:46:43] ▶
It's like it read his mind that he was going to shoot it.
[1:46:43 - 1:46:45] ▶
And then it locked up everything in his, and it's, it is jet.
[1:46:46 - 1:46:48] ▶
Isn't that while we hear that a lot, but it was so worth.
[1:46:48 - 1:46:52] ▶
Like all the effort we got, but people don't know the backstory like this.
[1:46:53 - 1:46:55] ▶
That was just one out of many, you know, we ended up making a, I know what I saw.
[1:46:55 - 1:47:00] ▶
You know, for it's time.
[1:47:03 - 1:47:04] ▶
So not, there's a success with the, obviously coming out with the new, we can't
[1:47:09 - 1:47:12] ▶
have this Netflix thing.
[1:47:12 - 1:47:14] ▶
And then he's coming out with a new feature movie with Emily Blunt.
[1:47:14 - 1:47:17] ▶
I think in the next year or two.
[1:47:17 - 1:47:19] ▶
So he told me about Rua.
[1:47:19 - 1:47:21] ▶
He told you about the area.
[1:47:21 - 1:47:22] ▶
He told me about aeroschool in the 90s.
[1:47:22 - 1:47:25] ▶
So yeah, he knows this stuff.
[1:47:26 - 1:47:27] ▶
He's like, we have a mutual friend, Jenny Ang that worked with him and Janet.
[1:47:27 - 1:47:32] ▶
I was of course just young enough to think that I could get a, hey, I'm doing a documentary
[1:47:32 - 1:47:36] ▶
Spielberg's going to meet with me, right?
[1:47:37 - 1:47:39] ▶
And that didn't happen.
[1:47:39 - 1:47:41] ▶
But he did actually say to Janet, hey, tell him, you know, he's doing a film on UFOs.
[1:47:41 - 1:47:45] ▶
He should look into this landing case and happen in Africa.
[1:47:45 - 1:47:47] ▶
And of course I didn't.
[1:47:48 - 1:47:49] ▶
Because I was like, that didn't happen.
[1:47:50 - 1:47:52] ▶
There's no way a UFO could land in a school with 100 witnesses in broad daylight.
[1:47:52 - 1:47:56] ▶
I just, no, you know, how wrong I was.
[1:47:58 - 1:48:00] ▶
Well, it seems like a recurring truth in your life.
[1:48:01 - 1:48:03] ▶
Because you just believed things when they first told you.
[1:48:04 - 1:48:06] ▶
Now I, I, I know I'm not going to believe it.
[1:48:06 - 1:48:09] ▶
But I suspend judgment.
[1:48:10 - 1:48:11] ▶
I'm not going to not believe it.
[1:48:11 - 1:48:12] ▶
I will look into it.
[1:48:13 - 1:48:14] ▶
I'll review the evidence.
[1:48:14 - 1:48:15] ▶
That's why it's the best way to be.
[1:48:15 - 1:48:16] ▶
I know I'm going to get a lot of pushback criticism for including that encounter in the
[1:48:16 - 1:48:26] ▶
Nellis test range in the desert 94.
[1:48:26 - 1:48:29] ▶
I know, but people are going to say, I'm already seeing the Stephen Green streets and
[1:48:29 - 1:48:32] ▶
I know what they're going to, you know, they're going to try to just credit the whole film
[1:48:33 - 1:48:36] ▶
And I don't say within the definitive position that it happened, but how is one supposed
[1:48:38 - 1:48:44] ▶
to determine or dig into or uncover more evidence about a specific case if you don't know about
[1:48:44 - 1:48:51] ▶
So we're going to start somewhere.
[1:48:53 - 1:48:54] ▶
You have to start somewhere.
[1:48:54 - 1:48:55] ▶
And as long as you're honest and not shilling a thing that you actively disbelieve or whatever
[1:48:56 - 1:48:59] ▶
I didn't believe it.
[1:49:00 - 1:49:01] ▶
I wouldn't put it in their promise you.
[1:49:01 - 1:49:03] ▶
No, I would never do that.
[1:49:04 - 1:49:05] ▶
Fortunately, you know, I've never done any of this for the money.
[1:49:07 - 1:49:11] ▶
You know, of course, takes money to survive.
[1:49:11 - 1:49:14] ▶
But yeah, I just learned you were while making some of your early films, you were working
[1:49:14 - 1:49:18] ▶
You were battling cars.
[1:49:19 - 1:49:20] ▶
I worked at a hotel.
[1:49:22 - 1:49:24] ▶
I used to paint houses.
[1:49:25 - 1:49:26] ▶
Thank God you persisted.
[1:49:26 - 1:49:27] ▶
I've got a photograph of me.
[1:49:29 - 1:49:31] ▶
I'll share it with you not now.
[1:49:31 - 1:49:33] ▶
But during the making of the phenomenon, I mean, I, that was an eight year, eight years.
[1:49:33 - 1:49:39] ▶
I had to find new investors.
[1:49:40 - 1:49:44] ▶
You know, disagreement with former partners has one partner.
[1:49:44 - 1:49:47] ▶
He was like, we're going to create a hybrid.
[1:49:47 - 1:49:49] ▶
It's going to be part sci-fi and part reality.
[1:49:49 - 1:49:50] ▶
I was like, no, we're not.
[1:49:50 - 1:49:52] ▶
That's not going to.
[1:49:52 - 1:49:53] ▶
Anyway, I was doing random job system, you know, keep the cash flowing in because I, the
[1:49:53 - 1:49:59] ▶
investments dried up.
[1:49:59 - 1:50:00] ▶
And even though I'd made some pretty good documentaries prior to that, you think it
[1:50:00 - 1:50:04] ▶
would have been a little easier.
[1:50:04 - 1:50:05] ▶
Having had, you know, what, 20 years or 17 years into my belt.
[1:50:06 - 1:50:09] ▶
You know, I've made money.
[1:50:10 - 1:50:11] ▶
Everyone of my films has made money.
[1:50:11 - 1:50:12] ▶
I've paid everybody back 100% of the time.
[1:50:12 - 1:50:15] ▶
They were considered some of the better films out there on the topic.
[1:50:15 - 1:50:18] ▶
It's getting easier now.
[1:50:21 - 1:50:22] ▶
It's getting easier now.
[1:50:23 - 1:50:24] ▶
It's getting easier now.
[1:50:24 - 1:50:25] ▶
Provided I don't get ripped off of my distributor.
[1:50:25 - 1:50:27] ▶
Don't even say that.
[1:50:28 - 1:50:29] ▶
I'm not going to have it straight.
[1:50:29 - 1:50:30] ▶
I'm going to depend it.
[1:50:32 - 1:50:33] ▶
Yeah, it's exciting.
[1:50:34 - 1:50:35] ▶
So the movie last night was, it was incredible.
[1:50:35 - 1:50:36] ▶
There's so many moments.
[1:50:36 - 1:50:37] ▶
One that strikes me.
[1:50:37 - 1:50:38] ▶
You know, it's been talked about a little bit in the UFO world, but I think you summarize
[1:50:38 - 1:50:50] ▶
it and go into a level detail.
[1:50:50 - 1:50:52] ▶
It's just fascinating.
[1:50:52 - 1:50:53] ▶
And that's this Wilson memo.
[1:50:53 - 1:50:54] ▶
So you have Admiral Thomas J. Wilson.
[1:50:54 - 1:50:56] ▶
The Wilson memo refers to a document allegedly summarizing a conversation between Dr. Eric
[1:50:56 - 1:51:02] ▶
Davis and Admiral Thomas Wilson regarding UFOs and alleged reverse engineering of extraterrestrial
[1:51:02 - 1:51:09] ▶
The memo, reportedly written in 2002, discusses Wilson's claims about the government's secretive
[1:51:10 - 1:51:17] ▶
programs related to UFOs, including discussions about unacknowledged special access programs.
[1:51:17 - 1:51:24] ▶
I mean, I listened to Richard Dohn's review on a very smart guy.
[1:51:26 - 1:51:31] ▶
I contacted everybody.
[1:51:33 - 1:51:34] ▶
In fact, some of the people I contacted were like, that's, I can't even talk about that
[1:51:34 - 1:51:37] ▶
And this document was found at the Agri-Metual Estate, right?
[1:51:38 - 1:51:42] ▶
And I think I know the guy that found it.
[1:51:43 - 1:51:46] ▶
I also know on Tari's, who is Edgar Mitchell's goddaughter.
[1:51:49 - 1:51:53] ▶
She was a model of the 90s.
[1:51:53 - 1:51:55] ▶
And she was one instrumental in helping me get to Edgar Mitchell for the first time.
[1:51:55 - 1:52:01] ▶
So Tari's a number of other efforts as well.
[1:52:01 - 1:52:03] ▶
I think I wrote Edgar Mitchell.
[1:52:03 - 1:52:04] ▶
I wrote him probably, this is letters, right?
[1:52:05 - 1:52:08] ▶
I don't even read emails.
[1:52:08 - 1:52:10] ▶
I wrote, well, emails probably two later, but 20?
[1:52:10 - 1:52:13] ▶
And I had like 20, you know, your persistence.
[1:52:14 - 1:52:17] ▶
I'll give it to the relevance of the second, but I was, I was finally with him at his
[1:52:19 - 1:52:23] ▶
We were walking in his, he had a, uh, Carral with horses and beautiful house in, uh, in
[1:52:24 - 1:52:30] ▶
And I was walking with him and I said, gosh, you know, Dr. Mitchell, like what finally,
[1:52:31 - 1:52:40] ▶
you know, allowed you or permitted you or made you approve to meet with me.
[1:52:40 - 1:52:46] ▶
And I was expecting some sort of profound answer.
[1:52:46 - 1:52:49] ▶
And he goes, I realized James, that you just wouldn't go away.
[1:52:49 - 1:52:53] ▶
That's all that simple.
[1:52:54 - 1:52:56] ▶
I think I thought I didn't will him with it.
[1:52:57 - 1:53:00] ▶
There was no other way.
[1:53:02 - 1:53:03] ▶
Yes, there have been ET visitation.
[1:53:03 - 1:53:07] ▶
There have been crashed craft.
[1:53:07 - 1:53:10] ▶
There have been a material and bodies recovered.
[1:53:10 - 1:53:13] ▶
There was no other way to get rid of it.
[1:53:13 - 1:53:15] ▶
What any, anything that, I want to jump back to the Wilson memory.
[1:53:16 - 1:53:20] ▶
No, so I want to get to that in a second.
[1:53:20 - 1:53:21] ▶
So in Taurus, uh, met a girlfriend at the time that I was dating and they, she's like,
[1:53:21 - 1:53:27] ▶
oh, my boyfriend's trying to get to get to Edgermits.
[1:53:27 - 1:53:29] ▶
Oh, he's my, you know, my godfather, whatever.
[1:53:29 - 1:53:31] ▶
And she got me the interview.
[1:53:34 - 1:53:36] ▶
She ended up, she's doing a biography on him now.
[1:53:36 - 1:53:38] ▶
And we were talking and she's like, yeah, that interview that you got, do you think you
[1:53:38 - 1:53:41] ▶
can make it available to me for my, I said, absolutely.
[1:53:41 - 1:53:44] ▶
Yes, you can have the whole thing.
[1:53:45 - 1:53:47] ▶
And then we're talking and she goes, you know, uh, Edgermits will died.
[1:53:47 - 1:53:50] ▶
There was a flurry of activity at his house in this Australian guy.
[1:53:51 - 1:53:55] ▶
I caught him leaving the house with like a big briefcase, just like bloated with stuff.
[1:53:55 - 1:54:02] ▶
And she was looking at him like, what are you doing?
[1:54:02 - 1:54:04] ▶
And he was like, oh, nothing to see here kind of thing.
[1:54:05 - 1:54:06] ▶
And just kind of just goes around her and out the door and he was gone.
[1:54:06 - 1:54:10] ▶
That's what Taurus told me.
[1:54:10 - 1:54:12] ▶
She's like, I don't know what he went into.
[1:54:13 - 1:54:14] ▶
It's files took us up.
[1:54:14 - 1:54:16] ▶
And then later the document, right?
[1:54:16 - 1:54:19] ▶
And so that's, I think the moment that that document walked its way out of his house
[1:54:19 - 1:54:24] ▶
on Taurus caught the guy, that was an Australian guy.
[1:54:24 - 1:54:26] ▶
Do you know the guy?
[1:54:26 - 1:54:27] ▶
I, I'm not going to give his name.
[1:54:29 - 1:54:31] ▶
So, so, but in any case, yeah, because I was in Australia just prior to that doing, covering
[1:54:32 - 1:54:38] ▶
the landing case in West also, I met a lot of the researchers, the Australian counterparts
[1:54:38 - 1:54:41] ▶
So anyway, getting back to the memo.
[1:54:43 - 1:54:45] ▶
Well, then, but at the time, I didn't really process the significance of the memo.
[1:54:45 - 1:54:50] ▶
And I wasn't really touching on crash retrieval stuff because I don't know when that memo
[1:54:50 - 1:54:55] ▶
finally went public or was leaked officially in the sense that when did it actually become
[1:54:55 - 1:55:02] ▶
made public once it walked its way out of Edward's house?
[1:55:02 - 1:55:05] ▶
I don't, I maybe fairly recent.
[1:55:06 - 1:55:10] ▶
What year would that have been?
[1:55:10 - 1:55:11] ▶
I was, well, only asking because I didn't put it in the phenomenon, but I, maybe I wasn't
[1:55:12 - 1:55:18] ▶
So, you have this, this document basically saying that Wilson is extremely frustrated and
[1:55:20 - 1:55:27] ▶
he has to meet with Davis because he met with some corporation, the corporation has no
[1:55:27 - 1:55:34] ▶
oversight, no government oversight and it's completely outside of his jurisdiction.
[1:55:34 - 1:55:39] ▶
He finds a special access program, right?
[1:55:39 - 1:55:41] ▶
He finds a special access program they have four to 800 people working, but then they're
[1:55:41 - 1:55:46] ▶
working on craft that is not of this world, but progress is sort of slow and it's cumbersome
[1:55:46 - 1:55:53] ▶
and it's this bombshell document.
[1:55:53 - 1:55:55] ▶
And he's extremely frustrated and he's like, what's going on?
[1:55:55 - 1:55:58] ▶
Like who's, who's in charge here?
[1:55:58 - 1:56:00] ▶
And he said to Eric Davis, even he was saying I should have oversight.
[1:56:00 - 1:56:04] ▶
He's saying I should have oversight.
[1:56:04 - 1:56:05] ▶
They told him to kick rocks.
[1:56:05 - 1:56:07] ▶
They told him to kick rocks.
[1:56:08 - 1:56:10] ▶
So, what do you think that document's real?
[1:56:11 - 1:56:14] ▶
I think that's real.
[1:56:14 - 1:56:15] ▶
I would never have spent six months on it because God, there are so many complexities and
[1:56:15 - 1:56:20] ▶
so many different moving parts and meetings in DC and people at that lab, there was a guy
[1:56:20 - 1:56:27] ▶
Shannon's up in Shannon Oak Shannon.
[1:56:27 - 1:56:29] ▶
Yeah, okay, Shannon at Los Alamos.
[1:56:29 - 1:56:31] ▶
Los Alamos verifying, you know, who Eric Davis was and to meet with, with the former head
[1:56:31 - 1:56:38] ▶
Like, there was just so many things and I was like, okay, I need to condense this down.
[1:56:39 - 1:56:43] ▶
I remember my sister and I worked on this and I watched everything I could possibly watch.
[1:56:43 - 1:56:46] ▶
I was like, God, this memo is just so much to include.
[1:56:47 - 1:56:52] ▶
But I really need to kind of simplify it for the film, right?
[1:56:52 - 1:56:56] ▶
So I really just highlight, I mean, I worked very hard on that.
[1:56:56 - 1:57:00] ▶
And I thought it was a very good, and the reason why I got the level of participation,
[1:57:00 - 1:57:07] ▶
I would say even from how, it's like how I was like, I'll talk about this because it
[1:57:07 - 1:57:10] ▶
was mentioned in open congressional hearings.
[1:57:10 - 1:57:13] ▶
And it was actually made part of the record of the congressional hearings.
[1:57:13 - 1:57:19] ▶
And I think that made how I feel a little more comfortable to even not to say that, hey,
[1:57:19 - 1:57:22] ▶
look, I can affirm this or like, you know, but he didn't say, you know what?
[1:57:22 - 1:57:26] ▶
That's just hogwash.
[1:57:27 - 1:57:28] ▶
It was like, hey, if this individual is willing to admit that, and then I have to a bunch
[1:57:29 - 1:57:32] ▶
of people behind the scenes, a bunch of people.
[1:57:32 - 1:57:34] ▶
And they all say it's, oh, absolutely.
[1:57:34 - 1:57:36] ▶
Again, I wouldn't have put it in the film if I didn't feel it was legit.
[1:57:37 - 1:57:39] ▶
Do you think the corporation talking to Wilson is throwing him up when they say the progress
[1:57:40 - 1:57:45] ▶
is slow and cumbersome?
[1:57:45 - 1:57:46] ▶
Do you think maybe it's actually they have a reverse engineer?
[1:57:46 - 1:57:49] ▶
Do you have a talk to some staff members of the Senate Armed Service Committee?
[1:57:49 - 1:57:53] ▶
And they all say, well, you guys could subpoena Admiral Wilson, right?
[1:57:53 - 1:57:57] ▶
But we talked to him.
[1:58:00 - 1:58:03] ▶
And he's like, look, you know, I'm not saying anything at all on that.
[1:58:03 - 1:58:09] ▶
They're like, well, we're going to bring you into a skiff.
[1:58:09 - 1:58:11] ▶
He goes, okay, well, you could bring me into a skiff.
[1:58:11 - 1:58:13] ▶
And I'm going to tell you the same thing.
[1:58:13 - 1:58:14] ▶
I'm telling you right here.
[1:58:14 - 1:58:15] ▶
So it's not going to be any difference.
[1:58:16 - 1:58:17] ▶
So they kind of, and I asked this particular staff member, I said, well, could you subpoena
[1:58:17 - 1:58:21] ▶
I think they said that, yeah, that could be done.
[1:58:22 - 1:58:24] ▶
And not to say that it wouldn't be done at some point, but that was Admiral Wilson behind
[1:58:24 - 1:58:28] ▶
the scenes recently.
[1:58:28 - 1:58:29] ▶
A couple of weird, that's fascinating.
[1:58:29 - 1:58:31] ▶
A couple of interesting.
[1:58:31 - 1:58:32] ▶
That's very interesting.
[1:58:33 - 1:58:34] ▶
A couple of weird things about that.
[1:58:34 - 1:58:35] ▶
That meeting took place in the parking lot.
[1:58:35 - 1:58:37] ▶
EG&G, which is where Bob Lazar, I'm pretty sure worked.
[1:58:38 - 1:58:43] ▶
I think Bob Lazar, nope.
[1:58:45 - 1:58:46] ▶
I think they found them in the records there.
[1:58:46 - 1:58:48] ▶
So that's very strange.
[1:58:48 - 1:58:50] ▶
There's some other weird connections around EG&G, like what might be going on there.
[1:58:50 - 1:58:54] ▶
A government contractor to sort of...
[1:58:54 - 1:58:57] ▶
Extremely secretive government contractors.
[1:58:57 - 1:58:59] ▶
I don't know exactly how they relate to this, but they've come up enough where they clearly
[1:59:00 - 1:59:04] ▶
relate to it somehow.
[1:59:04 - 1:59:06] ▶
The other weird thing about that document is, I think Eric Davis says, don't listen to
[1:59:06 - 1:59:11] ▶
Do you remember that part?
[1:59:13 - 1:59:14] ▶
Maybe John Alexander.
[1:59:18 - 1:59:20] ▶
And so for people who don't know John Alexander is this long period of debate with him.
[1:59:22 - 1:59:29] ▶
So he obviously, since Roswell, like knows tons and tons of that...
[1:59:30 - 1:59:35] ▶
He's all the phenomenon's real, but there's no cover-up.
[1:59:36 - 1:59:38] ▶
I looked at him like, really?
[1:59:38 - 1:59:40] ▶
Well, it's one of the things where...
[1:59:40 - 1:59:42] ▶
But all but there's no cover-up.
[1:59:42 - 1:59:43] ▶
You're in a room and you don't know who the patty is.
[1:59:43 - 1:59:45] ▶
If you're saying there's no cover-up, maybe you're part of the cover-up.
[1:59:46 - 1:59:48] ▶
So one fact about John Alexander that I find interesting is, you covered Rendolsham so
[1:59:49 - 1:59:54] ▶
well, and I know what I saw.
[1:59:54 - 1:59:55] ▶
So this is this case of...
[1:59:55 - 1:59:56] ▶
These guys were in Rendolsham for a long time.
[1:59:57 - 1:59:59] ▶
So this is where we're at.
[2:00:00 - 2:00:01] ▶
Of course, Woodbridge, right near Suffolk.
[2:00:01 - 2:00:02] ▶
It's one of the best landing cases in all of England's history.
[2:00:02 - 2:00:06] ▶
And you have John...
[2:00:06 - 2:00:07] ▶
And certainly not, you know, the history of the...
[2:00:07 - 2:00:09] ▶
Yeah, Jim Paniston, John Burrows.
[2:00:10 - 2:00:12] ▶
I interviewed the only...
[2:00:12 - 2:00:14] ▶
I'm the only person to have interviewed Cabansag, Burrows, and Penicent.
[2:00:14 - 2:00:19] ▶
All the three guys that went out that night to investigate that.
[2:00:19 - 2:00:22] ▶
And Cabansag got cold feet when I met with him.
[2:00:22 - 2:00:24] ▶
And I hear Burrows is a sustained, some weird...
[2:00:24 - 2:00:27] ▶
And the injuries that...
[2:00:28 - 2:00:29] ▶
The bad thing got close to the craft and he was...
[2:00:29 - 2:00:31] ▶
Got really freaked out and apparently stayed back.
[2:00:31 - 2:00:32] ▶
And many, we carry on a minute or up.
[2:00:33 - 2:00:34] ▶
Well, well, we're a good landing case.
[2:00:34 - 2:00:35] ▶
But a very good case that's worth looking in and...
[2:00:35 - 2:00:39] ▶
And Carl Charles Halt looked into this stuff and came to the conclusion that, you know,
[2:00:39 - 2:00:43] ▶
there's something here.
[2:00:43 - 2:00:44] ▶
And the crazy thing about the whole story that relates to Alexander's, I think John Alexander
[2:00:44 - 2:00:50] ▶
gave the read out and knew about this before anybody in the US.
[2:00:50 - 2:00:55] ▶
I heard about this from a friend who's incredibly well-informed.
[2:00:58 - 2:01:01] ▶
Somebody that you hold up.
[2:01:03 - 2:01:05] ▶
That's funny because we were shooting in LA.
[2:01:11 - 2:01:14] ▶
And John and I've had great, you know, deaders together and...
[2:01:14 - 2:01:18] ▶
I'll tell them exactly how I feel.
[2:01:18 - 2:01:19] ▶
And I think I could prove in a court of law that you're wrong with overwhelming evidence.
[2:01:21 - 2:01:25] ▶
And he, you know, kind of...
[2:01:26 - 2:01:27] ▶
But then he was on set in LA when I was telling you I was filming the stuff in LA.
[2:01:27 - 2:01:31] ▶
And again, I like John Alexander.
[2:01:32 - 2:01:34] ▶
I really get along with him.
[2:01:34 - 2:01:35] ▶
I mean, in the sense that...
[2:01:35 - 2:01:37] ▶
But I tell him to his face how I feel.
[2:01:37 - 2:01:39] ▶
I disagree with you strongly.
[2:01:40 - 2:01:41] ▶
I don't think you're correct on this one.
[2:01:41 - 2:01:43] ▶
But then there were people on set that were like, who's this spook?
[2:01:43 - 2:01:46] ▶
They were like, who's this spook?
[2:01:47 - 2:01:48] ▶
He's just poking around on the set.
[2:01:51 - 2:01:53] ▶
Are there any people you can definitively say are sort of bad actors in modern ufology?
[2:01:53 - 2:01:59] ▶
Then I know maybe I don't want it...
[2:01:59 - 2:02:01] ▶
I try not to be negative or overly negative.
[2:02:01 - 2:02:03] ▶
But just for the audience's sake around who should...
[2:02:03 - 2:02:06] ▶
If you're new to this stuff, who should curate information for you?
[2:02:06 - 2:02:09] ▶
Is there anybody to look out for as to, you know, maybe steer clear, maybe avoid, maybe
[2:02:09 - 2:02:12] ▶
look at a little more skeptical?
[2:02:12 - 2:02:14] ▶
Well, here's how I feel about it.
[2:02:14 - 2:02:16] ▶
Anybody making definitive statements as to exactly what's going on...
[2:02:16 - 2:02:21] ▶
I'm highly dubious of.
[2:02:21 - 2:02:22] ▶
Do you know what I mean?
[2:02:23 - 2:02:24] ▶
I tell somebody, it's like, I know exactly what's going on.
[2:02:25 - 2:02:27] ▶
I don't know about that.
[2:02:28 - 2:02:29] ▶
I'll be the first one to tell you I have no idea what's going on.
[2:02:30 - 2:02:32] ▶
I have a little tiny idea.
[2:02:34 - 2:02:35] ▶
You know, when people say that this many...
[2:02:36 - 2:02:37] ▶
Yeah, I'm like, I don't...
[2:02:38 - 2:02:40] ▶
Look, I'm starting to cover close encounters of a third kind only recently in my...
[2:02:40 - 2:02:46] ▶
It's a slippery slope and those claims require evidence, you know?
[2:02:48 - 2:02:52] ▶
But even the people who've seen these things firsthand though don't know often what they
[2:02:52 - 2:02:56] ▶
And there's nothing wrong with admitting just because we can't explain it doesn't mean
[2:02:59 - 2:03:03] ▶
it didn't happen, right?
[2:03:03 - 2:03:04] ▶
Or it doesn't need it doesn't exist.
[2:03:05 - 2:03:06] ▶
And so it's telling you earlier, I've learned to be open and to suspend judgment and listen
[2:03:06 - 2:03:13] ▶
to the testimony and dig a little deeper.
[2:03:13 - 2:03:16] ▶
Again, that's why I'm including a controversial case.
[2:03:17 - 2:03:20] ▶
It's going to be a case that people are going to have trouble with.
[2:03:20 - 2:03:22] ▶
But it's like, hey, you know, these guys are all in duty.
[2:03:24 - 2:03:29] ▶
Again, we have a date.
[2:03:29 - 2:03:30] ▶
We have a location and we have the names of the other witnesses.
[2:03:30 - 2:03:33] ▶
Hopefully more will come out.
[2:03:33 - 2:03:34] ▶
But anyway, I mean, no, that turns up John Alexander.
[2:03:37 - 2:03:39] ▶
Yeah, and I don't know.
[2:03:39 - 2:03:40] ▶
I don't want to accuse of any...
[2:03:40 - 2:03:41] ▶
But there's, I think there may be an interesting throughout there.
[2:03:42 - 2:03:45] ▶
I'm always highly dubious of people that say they have all the answers.
[2:03:45 - 2:03:47] ▶
Does Alexander say that stuff?
[2:03:49 - 2:03:51] ▶
No, I don't think he'd go that far.
[2:03:52 - 2:03:53] ▶
But there are people out there that make those assertions and stuff.
[2:03:53 - 2:03:56] ▶
Well, it's like Doty, this guy, you know, Richard Doty, who was...
[2:03:56 - 2:04:00] ▶
We now know was counter-enthal for the Air Force.
[2:04:00 - 2:04:03] ▶
He admitted like he would throw people off the trail.
[2:04:03 - 2:04:05] ▶
And he would speaking insanely definitively about, you know, we have this many races and
[2:04:05 - 2:04:09] ▶
like, you know, these...
[2:04:09 - 2:04:10] ▶
Yeah, John Lear would say shit like that.
[2:04:10 - 2:04:12] ▶
Which makes me, again, John Lear, I don't know if he was like an agent or a useful idiot,
[2:04:13 - 2:04:17] ▶
like he was a disinfo arm or extension clearly to me.
[2:04:17 - 2:04:22] ▶
Like he was, you know, and he was a little Cooper, guys like that.
[2:04:22 - 2:04:25] ▶
He'll tell you how he got to work.
[2:04:26 - 2:04:27] ▶
So you have the aliens that come on, like, you know, and there can be bits and kernels
[2:04:28 - 2:04:32] ▶
of truth and a lot of this stuff.
[2:04:32 - 2:04:34] ▶
Well, look, I'll give you an example.
[2:04:34 - 2:04:36] ▶
Why I never believed Holiman and I didn't even look into it for a long time.
[2:04:36 - 2:04:39] ▶
And that's because they were like, oh, yeah, President Eisenhower had a meeting with
[2:04:39 - 2:04:43] ▶
Really, you know, maybe that was deliberately put out there to throw people off the trail
[2:04:46 - 2:04:51] ▶
that a alien did happen at Holliman Air Force Base.
[2:04:51 - 2:04:54] ▶
Now, I'm kind of convinced that it did.
[2:04:54 - 2:04:55] ▶
Well, the best off in the best disinfo is slightly adjacent to the truth.
[2:04:56 - 2:05:02] ▶
So you, what you'll do is you'll say, put out some wacky stuff in connection to...
[2:05:02 - 2:05:06] ▶
If something wacky actually happens, then you'll put out a wacky thing that's like right
[2:05:06 - 2:05:10] ▶
next to it, then you'll debunk that thing definitively.
[2:05:10 - 2:05:13] ▶
And it's like that's over.
[2:05:13 - 2:05:14] ▶
And then it takes the whole thing out.
[2:05:14 - 2:05:15] ▶
Because you can't speculate at all.
[2:05:17 - 2:05:18] ▶
Left it Eastgate, I think it was a book written about that there was actual contact with
[2:05:18 - 2:05:23] ▶
aliens at VanWaters in 1980.
[2:05:23 - 2:05:25] ▶
Now, all the key players that I've talked to, and I've talked to all, a lot of them,
[2:05:25 - 2:05:29] ▶
General Gordon Williams, Deputy Base Commander, Charles Holt, Paniston, Burrows, VanSag,
[2:05:29 - 2:05:37] ▶
nobody, and other, other witnesses that are in, I know what it's all.
[2:05:37 - 2:05:42] ▶
No one talks about aliens, none of those cases.
[2:05:42 - 2:05:44] ▶
But when book came out, that there was alien contact.
[2:05:47 - 2:05:49] ▶
And that through everybody off, it's like, oh, yeah, they met with aliens.
[2:05:50 - 2:05:54] ▶
That is a prime example in my opinion of disinformation to throw people out the drought.
[2:05:54 - 2:05:58] ▶
And often these things are put out in the worst outlet.
[2:05:59 - 2:06:02] ▶
So it's like, why is the daily mail getting like the first stories, like the CIA's office
[2:06:02 - 2:06:07] ▶
I also think they systematically use marginal, like, weird, fringy outlets that aren't super
[2:06:09 - 2:06:16] ▶
believable when it comes to putting out actually very good credible information.
[2:06:16 - 2:06:20] ▶
And that way, you can retract it if people don't take a good source.
[2:06:20 - 2:06:24] ▶
Not that it was credible.
[2:06:25 - 2:06:26] ▶
So you have the daily mail reporting on something that really happened.
[2:06:26 - 2:06:29] ▶
The daily mail reporting about an egg-shaped UFO from Area 51 a year ago, you have them
[2:06:29 - 2:06:36] ▶
reporting on the CIA's Office of Global Access being the main part of the crash retrieval
[2:06:36 - 2:06:42] ▶
program all around the world.
[2:06:42 - 2:06:45] ▶
Wait, what did they say?
[2:06:45 - 2:06:46] ▶
In the daily mail, they say that the CIA has this Office of Global Access.
[2:06:46 - 2:06:50] ▶
And so, no, it's fascinating.
[2:06:53 - 2:06:55] ▶
And so, I think that is a strategy.
[2:06:55 - 2:06:58] ▶
I hate talking about Epstein.
[2:06:58 - 2:07:00] ▶
I won't after this, but I do think this relates a little bit.
[2:07:00 - 2:07:05] ▶
So, Gilleen Maxwell.
[2:07:05 - 2:07:08] ▶
She didn't prison now.
[2:07:09 - 2:07:10] ▶
She didn't prison now.
[2:07:10 - 2:07:12] ▶
Her father's Robert Maxwell.
[2:07:12 - 2:07:14] ▶
This MI6 misalad affiliated, you know, kind of, definitely, definitely.
[2:07:14 - 2:07:19] ▶
And intelligence-associated guy.
[2:07:22 - 2:07:23] ▶
And he was kind of always a rival of Rupert Murdoch, like Murdoch, and he would always
[2:07:24 - 2:07:28] ▶
Because he owned a lot of various, he owned the Pergamon Press, a bunch of textbooks actually
[2:07:29 - 2:07:34] ▶
He owned a big, big, big media magazine, for sure.
[2:07:35 - 2:07:38] ▶
Oh, and you would have these lavish birthdays and the 80s, and you'd have all sorts of,
[2:07:38 - 2:07:43] ▶
you know, really famous people show weird.
[2:07:43 - 2:07:47] ▶
Key owned the national inquire.
[2:07:47 - 2:07:49] ▶
And so, I always think it's like if you were trying to marginalize a thing, or actually
[2:07:49 - 2:07:54] ▶
condition people into believing it, or put out the adjacent theory and then be able
[2:07:54 - 2:07:59] ▶
Test the waters, do whatever you buy a publication like that.
[2:08:00 - 2:08:04] ▶
And you can do whatever you want, you know.
[2:08:04 - 2:08:06] ▶
And so, I think that's-
[2:08:06 - 2:08:07] ▶
Hey, use strategically.
[2:08:08 - 2:08:10] ▶
You know, why did, in 1972, two relatively unknown filmmakers get this unprecedented
[2:08:10 - 2:08:21] ▶
level of access, making a UFO's past, present, and future?
[2:08:21 - 2:08:25] ▶
I mean, anybody who looks at that film, I mean, they've got full access in the military
[2:08:25 - 2:08:32] ▶
You're talking about Bob M. Niggert and Alan Sandler.
[2:08:33 - 2:08:36] ▶
But it wasn't Rod Sirling, sort of, that's what I was saying.
[2:08:36 - 2:08:40] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[2:08:40 - 2:08:41] ▶
Yeah, but it's like, well, they were approached by the DOD.
[2:08:41 - 2:08:45] ▶
They basically, yeah, but they basically admit in the film that it's real and they put forth
[2:08:45 - 2:08:49] ▶
some really shit, crazy, like accounts.
[2:08:49 - 2:08:54] ▶
I mean, like contact.
[2:08:55 - 2:08:56] ▶
Look, they're staying contact with active military at Hollum and Air Force Base.
[2:08:56 - 2:09:02] ▶
In 1972 or 1974, whatever, it ultimately got released.
[2:09:02 - 2:09:05] ▶
Like, who was behind that?
[2:09:05 - 2:09:07] ▶
I'm a little skeptical of it.
[2:09:07 - 2:09:09] ▶
Sceptical who's behind it?
[2:09:10 - 2:09:12] ▶
No, well, they were originally approached by Nellis, Air Force Base, and they were,
[2:09:12 - 2:09:18] ▶
I think, promised that they would be shown a UFO.
[2:09:18 - 2:09:20] ▶
Well, yeah, they were given one bit of footage, which he still has to this day.
[2:09:20 - 2:09:27] ▶
And that is a launch at Vanderbure Air Force Base of an Atlas rocket.
[2:09:27 - 2:09:33] ▶
And there's two or, I think it's two discs that are flying around the tip of this Atlas
[2:09:33 - 2:09:39] ▶
rocket watch, doing thousands of miles across the sky.
[2:09:39 - 2:09:42] ▶
How do we get the video, Jam?
[2:09:42 - 2:09:44] ▶
I'll play a recording from Allen about it.
[2:09:45 - 2:09:48] ▶
But he's like, if you get 25 grand, this is like 2013, 2014, you get 25 grand.
[2:09:48 - 2:09:54] ▶
I will, I had to put the money into an escrow account that I go to his house, and he's
[2:09:54 - 2:10:01] ▶
going to show me the footage.
[2:10:01 - 2:10:02] ▶
And if it's not everything he said, it was, I'll get the money back.
[2:10:02 - 2:10:07] ▶
And if it is, and he gets the money, and then I got the money together in the last minute,
[2:10:07 - 2:10:11] ▶
nope, not going to do it.
[2:10:11 - 2:10:13] ▶
And so I went coincidentally multiple times since then, and I met with him at his house.
[2:10:13 - 2:10:20] ▶
And he's got the footage, and I was like, so you're just going to die with this footage,
[2:10:20 - 2:10:23] ▶
And he's like, yeah, probably, you know, he said, my Lord says, I've nothing to gain.
[2:10:24 - 2:10:30] ▶
Like I'm not going to risk stepping on.
[2:10:32 - 2:10:34] ▶
I was like, well, you know, then why don't you give it back to the government?
[2:10:34 - 2:10:37] ▶
I know, I know some people that could, you know, so that's, I don't know.
[2:10:37 - 2:10:41] ▶
So I, it's not the holoman landing case.
[2:10:41 - 2:10:44] ▶
It's, I know, it's a pretty good total two different camera angles according to, I've
[2:10:44 - 2:10:48] ▶
talked to people that have seen it.
[2:10:48 - 2:10:49] ▶
It's something, something inside me thinks that maybe the Air Force or the DOD decided we
[2:10:49 - 2:10:56] ▶
are going to flip into being vaguely pro UFO, at least in the ET extraterrestrial context
[2:10:56 - 2:11:03] ▶
in the early 70s, because you had the Condon Commission sort of basically just kill Blue
[2:11:03 - 2:11:09] ▶
Then nobody really talks that much about, you know, any of this stuff.
[2:11:12 - 2:11:16] ▶
And then you said that Edward Condon that he was a panel in what year was that?
[2:11:16 - 2:11:23] ▶
So this is the crazy, crazy, crazy, and condon.
[2:11:23 - 2:11:27] ▶
So Condon was good friends with Oppenheimer.
[2:11:27 - 2:11:29] ▶
In fact, they studied it, gotten again together in the Germany in the 1930s.
[2:11:29 - 2:11:33] ▶
So they had known each other forever.
[2:11:33 - 2:11:36] ▶
Condon is from Alamogordo.
[2:11:36 - 2:11:37] ▶
So he helped pick Los Alamos as the spot for the Manhattan Project.
[2:11:37 - 2:11:41] ▶
He wrote the Los Alamos primer, which every single employee of the Manhattan Project had
[2:11:43 - 2:11:48] ▶
to read upon arrival.
[2:11:48 - 2:11:50] ▶
Then six weeks into the Manhattan Project, he falls out with Leslie Groves over issues
[2:11:50 - 2:11:56] ▶
with like overcompartmentalization and secrecy, which feels like this weird thing.
[2:11:56 - 2:12:01] ▶
It's like, you know, he's so close with, he wrote actually the first English language
[2:12:01 - 2:12:05] ▶
textbook on quantum mechanics.
[2:12:05 - 2:12:07] ▶
He's just a renowned physicist.
[2:12:07 - 2:12:09] ▶
He's so close with Oppenheimer and it feels like this bizarre sort of story.
[2:12:09 - 2:12:12] ▶
And then he goes on to kind of to work on civilian outreach when it comes to kind of
[2:12:12 - 2:12:17] ▶
So obviously with nuclear, you need nuclear physics is like an academic program, but there's
[2:12:18 - 2:12:23] ▶
some trade secrets around building the bomb that you want to keep secret.
[2:12:23 - 2:12:27] ▶
In 46, he writes the McMahon Secrecy Act.
[2:12:27 - 2:12:30] ▶
And this is at the time the most important sort of protocol when it comes to secrecy around
[2:12:30 - 2:12:36] ▶
nuclear trade secrets.
[2:12:36 - 2:12:38] ▶
In 1954, the Atomic Energy Commission gets formed.
[2:12:38 - 2:12:41] ▶
And the DOE gets formed exactly.
[2:12:42 - 2:12:45] ▶
And that's basically Oppenheimer, Sarbacher, and they're creating that special definition
[2:12:45 - 2:12:54] ▶
of nuclear material is basically anything emitting any sort of radiological properties.
[2:12:54 - 2:12:59] ▶
You know, alpha, beta, different classification.
[2:12:59 - 2:13:01] ▶
It's a meat, it's born secret.
[2:13:01 - 2:13:03] ▶
Do you actually read the Atomic Energy Act?
[2:13:03 - 2:13:05] ▶
If something is not a nuke, but it has radiological energy coming off it, you know, alpha, beta
[2:13:05 - 2:13:11] ▶
And so it immediately falls into this sort of DOE classification system completely free
[2:13:14 - 2:13:19] ▶
from oversight, is that right?
[2:13:19 - 2:13:20] ▶
Yeah, completely as compartmentalized from like, you know, civilian government.
[2:13:21 - 2:13:24] ▶
So you have, you know, N-1-T-Q.
[2:13:24 - 2:13:26] ▶
So you keep coming super secret.
[2:13:26 - 2:13:28] ▶
It's not T-S-S-S-S-E-I.
[2:13:28 - 2:13:29] ▶
It's an entirely different classification system.
[2:13:30 - 2:13:33] ▶
And you know, it's all occurring in these incredibly sensitive areas as well because the
[2:13:33 - 2:13:37] ▶
crash is sort of mostly occurred there.
[2:13:37 - 2:13:39] ▶
That's a little known secret.
[2:13:39 - 2:13:40] ▶
And that you are very aware of.
[2:13:40 - 2:13:42] ▶
And that language for the Atomic Energy Commission is using the McMahon secrecy act of 46.
[2:13:42 - 2:13:49] ▶
That's a condon rope.
[2:13:50 - 2:13:51] ▶
So condon is basically writing up UFO secrecy before he then debunks the entire thing.
[2:13:51 - 2:13:57] ▶
And this is, okay, this is, it gets even deeper.
[2:13:57 - 2:14:00] ▶
I don't know how much you want me to keep going.
[2:14:00 - 2:14:02] ▶
Found a really good color footage of condon for the, for the phenomenon.
[2:14:02 - 2:14:05] ▶
That little smirky face he had on when he was, it's so cynical.
[2:14:06 - 2:14:08] ▶
I was like, this guy's mind's made up.
[2:14:08 - 2:14:10] ▶
I know exactly where this is going.
[2:14:10 - 2:14:11] ▶
Well, he's, his members of his staff are saying that they, you know, actively are not taking
[2:14:11 - 2:14:15] ▶
He's meeting with Air Force Colonel Robert Hippler at the time and Robert Hippler is saying,
[2:14:17 - 2:14:21] ▶
please show this as a waste of money so the Air Force can stop paying for this.
[2:14:21 - 2:14:25] ▶
And their letters, their transcripts that we have now between the two.
[2:14:25 - 2:14:31] ▶
And here, here's, here's where it gets.
[2:14:31 - 2:14:32] ▶
Here's where it gets so weird.
[2:14:33 - 2:14:35] ▶
So there is an FBI field agent named Guy Hottel.
[2:14:35 - 2:14:40] ▶
He's a Washington field agent.
[2:14:40 - 2:14:42] ▶
And the number one memo on the FBI's website, the number one, the most search for memo is
[2:14:42 - 2:14:47] ▶
called the Hottel memo.
[2:14:47 - 2:14:48] ▶
And it's basically describing an Air Force technical officer coming upon a craft that is
[2:14:48 - 2:14:54] ▶
crashed and you have the crew intact.
[2:14:54 - 2:14:57] ▶
And so it's, you know, this guy's claiming that there are aliens inside this craft who's
[2:14:57 - 2:15:01] ▶
And it's on the FBI's website.
[2:15:02 - 2:15:03] ▶
So you're like, what the hell is this?
[2:15:03 - 2:15:05] ▶
And it's a memo to Guy Hottel.
[2:15:05 - 2:15:07] ▶
So Guy Hottel is a guy who clearly is aware of the UFO issue.
[2:15:07 - 2:15:12] ▶
And Guy Hottel is investigating Condon in the early fifties right around the time that
[2:15:12 - 2:15:18] ▶
Oppenheimer gets his Q clearance stripped.
[2:15:18 - 2:15:20] ▶
Remember, we talked about that earlier.
[2:15:20 - 2:15:22] ▶
Condon has the same sort of kangaroo court process.
[2:15:22 - 2:15:25] ▶
And he gets his Q clearance stripped as well.
[2:15:25 - 2:15:29] ▶
And so it's this crazy thing where, you know, maybe actually, Guy Hottel, what was his,
[2:15:29 - 2:15:33] ▶
so he's doing, he's, so he's
[2:15:33 - 2:15:35] ▶
investigating Condon.
[2:15:35 - 2:15:36] ▶
Oh, I messed that detail.
[2:15:36 - 2:15:38] ▶
So he's creating a dossier in the background on Condon and Condon is getting his Q clearance
[2:15:38 - 2:15:43] ▶
So you have a UFO knowledgeable FBI agent creating a dossier on the guy who wrote up UFO secrecy.
[2:15:44 - 2:15:51] ▶
So so he can't make this tough.
[2:15:51 - 2:15:53] ▶
So Condon, Condon then doesn't have his Q clearance for the longest time till the Condon
[2:15:54 - 2:15:59] ▶
He's out of the government.
[2:16:00 - 2:16:02] ▶
And this guy named Lou Brandscomb comes to him.
[2:16:02 - 2:16:05] ▶
Lou Brandscomb is on the Jason advisory committee and he is studied under Don Menzel.
[2:16:05 - 2:16:11] ▶
Don Menzel is the number one skeptic, the UFO skeptic, the bunker, but he's also rumored
[2:16:11 - 2:16:16] ▶
to be the deepest in the, on the majestic 12 or whatever equivalent committee or whatever.
[2:16:16 - 2:16:22] ▶
Stanton Friedman was a real advocate for that.
[2:16:22 - 2:16:24] ▶
He goes, if it's not called, majestic 12, there's a group just like Fitzill legitimate
[2:16:24 - 2:16:27] ▶
It's one that a flying saucer crashed.
[2:16:28 - 2:16:30] ▶
Two that the wreckage was recovered, 1947.
[2:16:30 - 2:16:33] ▶
Three that the government has successfully kept that secret since that time.
[2:16:33 - 2:16:37] ▶
Four that at a very high level group, including as it happens, the first four directors
[2:16:37 - 2:16:41] ▶
of Central Intelligence, first secretary of defense, etc.
[2:16:41 - 2:16:46] ▶
Was set up, established to deal with.
[2:16:46 - 2:16:48] ▶
He was convinced of it.
[2:16:48 - 2:16:49] ▶
Well, those were all the guys who were like, who would be, yeah.
[2:16:49 - 2:16:52] ▶
So Menzel is this kind of, you know, incredibly smart astronomer.
[2:16:52 - 2:16:56] ▶
He's at Harvard and he works at the, I think, Bureau of Public Standards as well on, you
[2:16:56 - 2:17:02] ▶
know, like the time zones, like that sort of thing.
[2:17:02 - 2:17:05] ▶
You know, so also like the kind of public astronomical data at the time.
[2:17:05 - 2:17:09] ▶
So his understudy, this guy, Lou Brandscomb, who's on the Jason advisory committee.
[2:17:09 - 2:17:13] ▶
So it's again, deep as you get, as it gets when it comes to larger, you know, American defense
[2:17:13 - 2:17:17] ▶
policy, goes to Condon.
[2:17:17 - 2:17:20] ▶
And Condon even is talks about this.
[2:17:20 - 2:17:22] ▶
This is a transcript where Condon is talking about this in an American Institute of Physics
[2:17:22 - 2:17:26] ▶
And he says, Hey, you know, maybe it's time you get your clearance back and Condon's
[2:17:27 - 2:17:32] ▶
go to a little job for you.
[2:17:32 - 2:17:33] ▶
Well, literally he that's like the finish.
[2:17:34 - 2:17:36] ▶
He knows that secrecy document that you wrote the 40 exactly no reason given.
[2:17:36 - 2:17:41] ▶
He's just given his Q clearance back.
[2:17:41 - 2:17:43] ▶
It was probably like, Hey, we have all this compromise on you because the guy, HODL has
[2:17:43 - 2:17:47] ▶
He ends up the University of Colorado Boulder and he doesn't absolute hit job on your
[2:17:50 - 2:17:54] ▶
And it was inconsistent with the data within the body of the report.
[2:17:55 - 2:17:58] ▶
It completely inconsistently.
[2:17:58 - 2:17:59] ▶
It's like they just were to summary and basing, hoping that the media was going to do their
[2:18:01 - 2:18:04] ▶
job and sit through the actual cases that they, because they determined that your
[2:18:04 - 2:18:08] ▶
It's not all your folks are any of us real.
[2:18:09 - 2:18:12] ▶
You know, it was a brilliant job and it really, it killed.
[2:18:13 - 2:18:16] ▶
But I want to get back to you mentioned that guy HODL's FBI memo.
[2:18:19 - 2:18:23] ▶
Another FBI memo was extremely popular on the FBI website.
[2:18:23 - 2:18:27] ▶
I featured it now to the blue.
[2:18:27 - 2:18:28] ▶
And honestly, I don't know if it's still floating around on the FBI site.
[2:18:28 - 2:18:31] ▶
But it's in, is it Eisenhower's own hand right?
[2:18:33 - 2:18:36] ▶
Jay Gahuever writes and you, there's, there's multiple interpretations of this because it
[2:18:38 - 2:18:45] ▶
looks like S A or it could be like a W that wasn't written quite right.
[2:18:45 - 2:18:50] ▶
It is not quite sure, but it says former director of the FBI, Jay Edgar Hoover was also denied
[2:18:50 - 2:18:57] ▶
access as he stated in his own handwriting in July of 1947.
[2:18:57 - 2:19:02] ▶
We must insist upon full access to discs recovered.
[2:19:02 - 2:19:06] ▶
The army grabbed it and wouldn't let the bureau have it for cursory examination.
[2:19:07 - 2:19:12] ▶
And it's in Jay Gahuever's own handwriting.
[2:19:12 - 2:19:15] ▶
That's on this document.
[2:19:15 - 2:19:16] ▶
It says, as in take the S A or S W could be Southwest.
[2:19:16 - 2:19:22] ▶
The art, it was a crash desk.
[2:19:26 - 2:19:28] ▶
The army grabbed it and wouldn't let us have it for cursory examination.
[2:19:28 - 2:19:33] ▶
And it was written like five days or six days or a week after Roswell.
[2:19:33 - 2:19:38] ▶
So that was, did you ever see that?
[2:19:38 - 2:19:40] ▶
And I actually put at the time in out of the blue, of course, that's changed now because
[2:19:42 - 2:19:46] ▶
that was probably late 90s or early 2000, probably late 90s.
[2:19:46 - 2:19:49] ▶
And but that was the document that was on the FBI's own website.
[2:19:49 - 2:19:53] ▶
I remember members of staff members of Congress at the time because I, it, God, it was, it was
[2:19:53 - 2:19:59] ▶
I went around and I gave out copies of out of the blue to every single member of the
[2:20:00 - 2:20:05] ▶
And every letter was personally addressed to their chief of staff.
[2:20:07 - 2:20:13] ▶
So that was like a lot of work, right?
[2:20:13 - 2:20:15] ▶
So I wrote it like a kind of a template letter.
[2:20:15 - 2:20:17] ▶
And then I had 535, you know, at the time it was VHS tapes.
[2:20:17 - 2:20:21] ▶
That's what they used.
[2:20:21 - 2:20:22] ▶
And I had 535 VHS tapes that I gave out to every member of the house and Senate.
[2:20:22 - 2:20:29] ▶
And one of the documents that they were most impressed, I had a conversation with some
[2:20:30 - 2:20:33] ▶
of the staff members at the time.
[2:20:33 - 2:20:34] ▶
But they're like, that FBI memo.
[2:20:34 - 2:20:36] ▶
Oh my God, it's right there in black and white, you know, if we could just figure out and
[2:20:37 - 2:20:40] ▶
apparently at the time and probably it's Jameson's then, but it was one of the most popular
[2:20:40 - 2:20:45] ▶
memos or documents on the FBI's website that was downloaded all the time.
[2:20:45 - 2:20:49] ▶
That's what I mean, you said Guy Hottle.
[2:20:49 - 2:20:51] ▶
And it is interesting because you mentioned, maybe there is something more to the majestic
[2:20:55 - 2:20:57] ▶
Well, I would now have Dolos's diary coming out.
[2:20:58 - 2:21:01] ▶
And it says on the day that, you know, Eisenhower was supposedly sort of briefed on this
[2:21:01 - 2:21:05] ▶
It says, you know, meeting with the president or whatever.
[2:21:06 - 2:21:08] ▶
So this stuff, it comports and such a, you know, kind of a lot more coming up very
[2:21:08 - 2:21:13] ▶
Well, because people are digging for it now.
[2:21:15 - 2:21:16] ▶
Yeah, people are digging the service areas around.
[2:21:16 - 2:21:17] ▶
I mean, look, like I remember watching Louis Elisando on 60 minutes.
[2:21:19 - 2:21:23] ▶
And you know, there was this sort of incredulous look on the interviewer's face and lose like,
[2:21:23 - 2:21:30] ▶
look, I'm not telling you the real.
[2:21:30 - 2:21:32] ▶
The government just admitted that the real.
[2:21:33 - 2:21:34] ▶
The government has already stated for the record that they're real.
[2:21:34 - 2:21:36] ▶
I'm not telling you that.
[2:21:36 - 2:21:37] ▶
The United States government is telling you that.
[2:21:37 - 2:21:39] ▶
The phenomenon is real.
[2:21:39 - 2:21:40] ▶
We're moving beyond that, you know, and that happened.
[2:21:41 - 2:21:43] ▶
That's why I said earlier on the show.
[2:21:43 - 2:21:44] ▶
It's like, you're not putting the genie back in the bottle.
[2:21:44 - 2:21:46] ▶
Like you can't make that statement.
[2:21:46 - 2:21:48] ▶
The implications are so profound that if all that is true for all of humanity, there's
[2:21:48 - 2:21:55] ▶
no way we're just going to see on the sidelines and just ignore, you know what I mean?
[2:21:55 - 2:21:59] ▶
I posted something on on X and Twitter X.
[2:22:01 - 2:22:05] ▶
I don't know, maybe it was like a year ago or something and people were really discouraged
[2:22:05 - 2:22:09] ▶
because, you know, David Grush comes forward and says all the things he says and it's
[2:22:09 - 2:22:13] ▶
amazing, Grush wearings.
[2:22:13 - 2:22:14] ▶
And then it seemed like we almost kind of went backwards a little bit.
[2:22:14 - 2:22:17] ▶
I think they did a hit job on Mr. Grush.
[2:22:17 - 2:22:19] ▶
There were some denials and, you know, and I said, everybody calm down because people were
[2:22:20 - 2:22:24] ▶
really freaking out.
[2:22:24 - 2:22:25] ▶
I said, I've seen this pattern, you know, increments, nothing like what I've seen in
[2:22:25 - 2:22:30] ▶
2017 now, but hey, I've seen efforts to get the stuff out and we are making progress.
[2:22:30 - 2:22:35] ▶
There's no question about it.
[2:22:35 - 2:22:37] ▶
I mean, I remember in 2007, 2008, there was a release of previously classified documents
[2:22:37 - 2:22:41] ▶
at the British government, French government that started releasing stuff.
[2:22:41 - 2:22:45] ▶
There's stuff coming out.
[2:22:45 - 2:22:46] ▶
There's press conferences.
[2:22:46 - 2:22:47] ▶
There's things happening.
[2:22:47 - 2:22:48] ▶
And now that has escalated between 2017 and today, 2024 exponentially, in my opinion,
[2:22:48 - 2:22:57] ▶
I just tell everybody, like, you know, those are feeling discouraged.
[2:22:57 - 2:23:00] ▶
We take one step back to steps forward.
[2:23:01 - 2:23:04] ▶
There's going to be, there's going to be pretty significant progress, in my opinion,
[2:23:04 - 2:23:09] ▶
in the next five years.
[2:23:09 - 2:23:10] ▶
Like I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't like at least a disclosure in the sense that
[2:23:10 - 2:23:18] ▶
and I've talked to government insiders about this.
[2:23:18 - 2:23:20] ▶
The plane is for when I say full disclosure, they say they're not going to give up the
[2:23:20 - 2:23:24] ▶
technology that's not going to happen.
[2:23:24 - 2:23:26] ▶
They might be in a mission of having some, but that there is definitive proof that we're
[2:23:26 - 2:23:29] ▶
That on toll by 2030.
[2:23:30 - 2:23:32] ▶
Am I going to sit there and make a prediction that's absolutely fact?
[2:23:32 - 2:23:36] ▶
If I had to get one way or the other, did you?
[2:23:37 - 2:23:40] ▶
I bet McWest $10,000.
[2:23:41 - 2:23:42] ▶
Which is such a stupid bet if you were to have, like, I should have 100,000 to one on,
[2:23:43 - 2:23:48] ▶
but I just bet one to one.
[2:23:48 - 2:23:49] ▶
Yeah, because I just believe that.
[2:23:50 - 2:23:53] ▶
I believe what you're saying.
[2:23:53 - 2:23:54] ▶
You're not going to have money in a joint account.
[2:23:54 - 2:23:56] ▶
We wrote up something.
[2:23:56 - 2:23:58] ▶
Well, it was signed or it's been.
[2:23:59 - 2:24:01] ▶
Talked to the McWest out there.
[2:24:01 - 2:24:03] ▶
I'm going to be under attack.
[2:24:03 - 2:24:05] ▶
Everybody's under attack.
[2:24:05 - 2:24:06] ▶
I've seen this before.
[2:24:07 - 2:24:08] ▶
There's nothing new.
[2:24:08 - 2:24:10] ▶
In fact, there's a lot less of you today than there was when I first started in the 90s.
[2:24:10 - 2:24:15] ▶
It causes us to raise our game or whatever.
[2:24:17 - 2:24:20] ▶
Look, I don't blame them.
[2:24:21 - 2:24:22] ▶
I just debated Michael Schermer.
[2:24:23 - 2:24:25] ▶
You know, Michael Schermer.
[2:24:25 - 2:24:26] ▶
I would debated him on Larry King Law.
[2:24:26 - 2:24:28] ▶
If UFOs were, and I used the word if, we're buzzing around in our airspace, who would be
[2:24:29 - 2:24:34] ▶
best equipped to know about it?
[2:24:34 - 2:24:36] ▶
Well, our government, perhaps.
[2:24:36 - 2:24:38] ▶
So we've got, maybe, I spoke in military officials in the world telling us right now that
[2:24:40 - 2:24:43] ▶
these things are real.
[2:24:43 - 2:24:44] ▶
We've got presidents, governors.
[2:24:47 - 2:24:48] ▶
But it's always, it's the same thing.
[2:24:48 - 2:24:50] ▶
I'm laughing about it too.
[2:24:50 - 2:24:51] ▶
You have, I'd love to hear your experience because it's like always like you have this
[2:24:51 - 2:24:54] ▶
data set that they don't have.
[2:24:54 - 2:24:56] ▶
And you're like, look into it.
[2:24:57 - 2:24:58] ▶
But you can't right now because we're in a live debate setting.
[2:24:59 - 2:25:02] ▶
And they always say, oh, I'll look into that.
[2:25:02 - 2:25:03] ▶
And then they have these like armchair smug like.
[2:25:03 - 2:25:05] ▶
It's well, you know, it just irritates the heck out of me.
[2:25:06 - 2:25:10] ▶
Yeah, it's irritates.
[2:25:10 - 2:25:11] ▶
I'll see this little smirk on their face and they're like, that's all anecdotal evidence.
[2:25:11 - 2:25:14] ▶
I'm like radar, photographs, visual, confirmation, ground radar, air to air radar.
[2:25:14 - 2:25:20] ▶
Like, that's not anecdotal.
[2:25:20 - 2:25:22] ▶
I might not have the disc in my possession.
[2:25:24 - 2:25:25] ▶
But, you know, that's really compelling.
[2:25:26 - 2:25:29] ▶
That's like all the sensory data that the military has.
[2:25:29 - 2:25:33] ▶
Well, like in the case of anecdotal, it's not.
[2:25:34 - 2:25:35] ▶
In the case of Nimitz, it's like multi sensory at the very least.
[2:25:36 - 2:25:39] ▶
It's fleer, which we have.
[2:25:39 - 2:25:41] ▶
But it's multi sensory.
[2:25:41 - 2:25:42] ▶
You have 11 or 12 witnesses.
[2:25:42 - 2:25:44] ▶
You have three days, you know, four people in planes, four people in the planes put their
[2:25:44 - 2:25:49] ▶
eyes on and like dog fight.
[2:25:49 - 2:25:51] ▶
There was like a dog fight with it or whatever.
[2:25:51 - 2:25:53] ▶
And so to say that that's just your eyes playing tricks on you, no, you either have to
[2:25:53 - 2:25:58] ▶
figure out that we have next level spoofing tech.
[2:25:58 - 2:26:02] ▶
Like that's on you then.
[2:26:02 - 2:26:03] ▶
It's either that or the thing is real and worthy investigation.
[2:26:03 - 2:26:07] ▶
But look at history.
[2:26:07 - 2:26:08] ▶
I did the phenomenon.
[2:26:08 - 2:26:10] ▶
One of the things I really wanted to do was settle that debate once and for all.
[2:26:10 - 2:26:14] ▶
There is irrefutable in my opinion.
[2:26:14 - 2:26:16] ▶
In the opinion of anyone that looked into this irrefutable evidence, irrefutable data
[2:26:16 - 2:26:22] ▶
that there's a technology that exhibits characteristics that are light years advanced, you know,
[2:26:22 - 2:26:31] ▶
then things we had back in the 40s and even today.
[2:26:31 - 2:26:34] ▶
And when I did at the end of the film was I would put testimony from people that had sightings
[2:26:34 - 2:26:39] ▶
in the in the 50s, 60s, 70s all the way up to 2004.
[2:26:39 - 2:26:44] ▶
And all the pilots are describing pretty much the same day of thing.
[2:26:44 - 2:26:47] ▶
Had the ability to hover, accelerate from a standstill to add a sight in the blink of an
[2:26:47 - 2:26:50] ▶
eye right angle turns an ice B without any sonic boom, without any wake, without any real
[2:26:50 - 2:26:55] ▶
It means propulsion.
[2:26:57 - 2:26:58] ▶
You know, all these things.
[2:26:58 - 2:26:59] ▶
Those are, that's observed.
[2:27:00 - 2:27:01] ▶
Oh, that's 75 years easily.
[2:27:01 - 2:27:02] ▶
I can prove that in court.
[2:27:02 - 2:27:03] ▶
It doesn't appear to be us.
[2:27:07 - 2:27:08] ▶
It's not the Russians, not the Chinese.
[2:27:08 - 2:27:09] ▶
I went to Russia in the 90s.
[2:27:10 - 2:27:11] ▶
I interviewed generals in Russia.
[2:27:11 - 2:27:12] ▶
I interviewed military personnel.
[2:27:13 - 2:27:15] ▶
I interviewed civilians, witnesses in Russia.
[2:27:15 - 2:27:17] ▶
I'd done the same in China.
[2:27:17 - 2:27:18] ▶
Apparently in Russia they would use nuclear material to bait.
[2:27:18 - 2:27:22] ▶
I do have a got to Russia.
[2:27:22 - 2:27:24] ▶
And I'm members of the down with this admiral.
[2:27:24 - 2:27:27] ▶
And he said to my interpreter, he's like, look, if you're here to ask me whether or not
[2:27:27 - 2:27:32] ▶
the phenomenon is real, the doors are right over there.
[2:27:32 - 2:27:36] ▶
I'm here to talk about the implications and opening the doors to a possible communication
[2:27:36 - 2:27:42] ▶
with an international communication, like an exchange of information in international
[2:27:42 - 2:27:47] ▶
levels, what we're interested in.
[2:27:47 - 2:27:50] ▶
And in China, I mean, I've observed technology.
[2:27:50 - 2:27:54] ▶
And the Americans are like, oh, well, it could be Russia that I was like, here's that.
[2:27:55 - 2:27:58] ▶
Oh, it could be the, no, it's not the Russians.
[2:27:58 - 2:27:59] ▶
There's a shock in their shoulders.
[2:28:04 - 2:28:05] ▶
And this stuff, I mean, you really have to go back to like 40s and 50s around our most
[2:28:08 - 2:28:10] ▶
precious nuclear assets.
[2:28:10 - 2:28:11] ▶
Like now, yeah, we might have like, you know, I have to drones that are flying, you know,
[2:28:12 - 2:28:18] ▶
And of course, we've got things that are misidentified as you have.
[2:28:19 - 2:28:22] ▶
But but at that time, we just didn't have anything close.
[2:28:23 - 2:28:25] ▶
You didn't have dark, dark was I think the early 70s or like late 60s.
[2:28:25 - 2:28:28] ▶
There's just no chance.
[2:28:28 - 2:28:30] ▶
We had like the X, P 80, like, I'm just thinking about our most advanced, you know, flight
[2:28:30 - 2:28:36] ▶
And it just wasn't even close.
[2:28:37 - 2:28:38] ▶
Okay, this is really kind of sort of a natural, say realization.
[2:28:39 - 2:28:45] ▶
I, you know, I'd know I've heard about the connection with, with NUX and UFOs.
[2:28:45 - 2:28:49] ▶
I know a little bit, I don't have a brush of the surface, whatever.
[2:28:49 - 2:28:53] ▶
What I met with Senator Reed, and it was funny because, you know, sat, he sat down
[2:28:53 - 2:28:59] ▶
and I think they said he's got like 46 minutes, you know, and then he's out of here, you
[2:28:59 - 2:29:03] ▶
know, very, you know, so I got down to like having like three minutes left of his presence.
[2:29:03 - 2:29:08] ▶
And I said, oh God, I forgot to get a walk and talk.
[2:29:09 - 2:29:13] ▶
I need a B-roll shot and didn't have time for as a guy and security details looking at
[2:29:13 - 2:29:17] ▶
me and make it quick kind of thing.
[2:29:17 - 2:29:19] ▶
Like, okay, let's hit this, let's hit this hallway, you know, hit the hallway.
[2:29:19 - 2:29:22] ▶
And I'm like, while I'm walking with the former Senate Majority Leader, who spearheaded
[2:29:22 - 2:29:26] ▶
this whole program, I should ask him a question.
[2:29:26 - 2:29:29] ▶
So I said, hey, what was, and the audio wasn't great because I didn't, I don't think
[2:29:29 - 2:29:33] ▶
we were mic'd at that point.
[2:29:33 - 2:29:34] ▶
I said, hey, what was one of the more, I think I said astonishing aspects that you
[2:29:34 - 2:29:38] ▶
go and cover during A-Tip, and during your efforts to, you know, investigate this stuff.
[2:29:38 - 2:29:43] ▶
And like immediately without a pause, he goes, the fact that they're shutting down our
[2:29:43 - 2:29:48] ▶
That's when I got in touch with Robert Hastings and I was like, I got to cover that in
[2:29:51 - 2:29:54] ▶
So I went back and I remember being such a powerful part of that.
[2:29:55 - 2:29:57] ▶
Such a powerful thing.
[2:29:57 - 2:29:58] ▶
And I remember in Hastings, thank you, Robert.
[2:29:58 - 2:30:00] ▶
The level of access he gave me all of his material.
[2:30:01 - 2:30:03] ▶
He was like, go, you know, and gave me all of his material.
[2:30:03 - 2:30:07] ▶
I think I compensated him by helping him build a fence in his yard in a quest on Valley.
[2:30:07 - 2:30:13] ▶
In any case, my buddy Lance Mungo was in the interim with me and we're listening to all
[2:30:14 - 2:30:21] ▶
these different accounts of sightings in and around like New Mexico and other surrounding
[2:30:21 - 2:30:29] ▶
And he goes, James, what, what's going to map out?
[2:30:30 - 2:30:33] ▶
Let's put the map on the wall.
[2:30:33 - 2:30:34] ▶
We're going to put a little pin where all these are happening.
[2:30:34 - 2:30:37] ▶
I was like, thinking of myself at the time, like, we do want to get a map for you know,
[2:30:38 - 2:30:41] ▶
but he was dead right.
[2:30:41 - 2:30:42] ▶
So every time we get to an archive interview or a case, in goes the pin, the proximity
[2:30:42 - 2:30:48] ▶
to Trinity site was unbelievable.
[2:30:48 - 2:30:51] ▶
Like it was like, here's Trinity site.
[2:30:52 - 2:30:54] ▶
It was like, think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think, think,
[2:30:54 - 2:30:58] ▶
the nuclear connection shows up.
[2:30:58 - 2:31:00] ▶
If absolutely, I mean, it's like the Nimitz, you know, carrier strike group or whatever.
[2:31:00 - 2:31:05] ▶
Well, most, it's, can't say for sure.
[2:31:06 - 2:31:09] ▶
But it's most of these things have nuclear tactical news on board.
[2:31:10 - 2:31:14] ▶
Is it nuclear power, too?
[2:31:17 - 2:31:18] ▶
But I'm pretty sure that it's a good stuff to see forever.
[2:31:20 - 2:31:23] ▶
So there's, so there's that there's, there's a, there's a town in Japan.
[2:31:23 - 2:31:26] ▶
There's a town in Japan called Lino, which is in Fukushima, which is famous for its
[2:31:27 - 2:31:32] ▶
Yeah, for nuclear spill, they have a million nuclear grid.
[2:31:34 - 2:31:37] ▶
Is that what that happened?
[2:31:37 - 2:31:38] ▶
And they have a town dedicated to UFOs where like, you know, a very high percentage of
[2:31:39 - 2:31:46] ▶
the residents believe in UFOs, you have a museum around UFO and vice-made a documentary
[2:31:46 - 2:31:52] ▶
on this in like 2020.
[2:31:52 - 2:31:54] ▶
Yeah, you have, um, Barra Loce is a nuclear energy grid and, um, and, and, and, and, and,
[2:31:54 - 2:32:13] ▶
Argentina, 95, I believe is a famous UFO case around there.
[2:32:13 - 2:32:18] ▶
So it's one of these things where, you know, I always, this is how I take skeptics down
[2:32:18 - 2:32:22] ▶
You know, Robert Hastings, UFOs and nukes or the phenomena, nuclear connection section,
[2:32:23 - 2:32:28] ▶
you know, one of those things, because it's this beautiful like it's like the most credible
[2:32:28 - 2:32:31] ▶
witnesses and super compelling.
[2:32:31 - 2:32:34] ▶
It's super compelling.
[2:32:34 - 2:32:35] ▶
They're taking out the NSA uses the top cryptography for all of the, you know, nuclear armament
[2:32:35 - 2:32:41] ▶
and disarmament and the idea that they're just like taking down silos is absolutely insane.
[2:32:41 - 2:32:45] ▶
In fact, in 2010, Wired wrote an article about F.E. Warren, uh, where there was an outage
[2:32:45 - 2:32:52] ▶
It was this big story just because, you know, one of our nuclear sites went down to the
[2:32:53 - 2:32:56] ▶
power went out for an hour and Hastings after he had retired and written UFOs and nukes
[2:32:56 - 2:33:02] ▶
back channeled to the misalers there and they were like, yeah, there was a tick-tax flying
[2:33:02 - 2:33:05] ▶
That's what caused the outage.
[2:33:06 - 2:33:08] ▶
So I got, I got a story from my not.
[2:33:08 - 2:33:11] ▶
Well, I won't go into too much detail, uh, but my not Air Force based.
[2:33:11 - 2:33:17] ▶
Where ever they come from, somebody is in mind at shutting off the missiles.
[2:33:17 - 2:33:24] ▶
So there was a guy, we started researching another reason why we got, uh, what footage
[2:33:24 - 2:33:30] ▶
Yeah, he did a, a project called like a project sign or project archive sign.
[2:33:32 - 2:33:40] ▶
We're all effort to study saucers was called project sign with headquarters at Wright
[2:33:40 - 2:33:45] ▶
In 1949, sign personnel wrote a top secret report, concluding UFOs were extra terrestrial
[2:33:47 - 2:33:53] ▶
When the report made it to the desk of chief of staff General Hoyt Vandenberg, though,
[2:33:54 - 2:33:58] ▶
he rejected it and ordered all copies burned.
[2:33:58 - 2:34:01] ▶
This rejection from the top was in the view of many the death knell for objective study
[2:34:01 - 2:34:06] ▶
And he went around in the 80s.
[2:34:07 - 2:34:08] ▶
I don't know if it was early as the 70s, but definitely the 80s and 90s.
[2:34:08 - 2:34:12] ▶
When he interviewed all these critical witnesses from like the 50s and 60s that were in their
[2:34:12 - 2:34:19] ▶
And thank God, because he got interviews that quite frankly, nobody even knew existed.
[2:34:21 - 2:34:26] ▶
That's why when you get like in a story like Richard Dolan who watched the phenomenon,
[2:34:26 - 2:34:30] ▶
he goes, God, I never knew that archive footage existed.
[2:34:30 - 2:34:33] ▶
Well, there was an interview with so and so or this person, you know, and I got in touch
[2:34:33 - 2:34:38] ▶
with this guy and he's to this day is sitting on interviews from, well, the interviews were
[2:34:38 - 2:34:46] ▶
in the 80s, but the incidents occurred.
[2:34:46 - 2:34:49] ▶
Mine on Air Force Base and I want to say in 66 or it could have been 68.
[2:34:49 - 2:34:53] ▶
They were separated by miles, right?
[2:34:53 - 2:34:56] ▶
And at night, they had to when they were working on these things, they would have one guy
[2:34:56 - 2:35:01] ▶
down in the hole and then another guy, armed guard standing there, armed guard protecting
[2:35:01 - 2:35:06] ▶
while the guys down there with the silo were working on it.
[2:35:06 - 2:35:09] ▶
And it was like two o'clock in the morning or three o'clock in the morning and a UFO came
[2:35:09 - 2:35:13] ▶
over the base and apparently was like hovering and the guy was screaming like it's landing.
[2:35:13 - 2:35:20] ▶
It's like you're orange, you know, or come down landing and the guy in the airplane, as
[2:35:20 - 2:35:26] ▶
I said, it was a guy in an airplane flying over the base and you can see the UFO landing.
[2:35:26 - 2:35:30] ▶
He interviewed that guy, the pilot, the interview, the guy that was, you know, the armed guard
[2:35:30 - 2:35:33] ▶
that was watching it all land.
[2:35:33 - 2:35:35] ▶
Apparently it's one of the most spectacular incidences and unprecedented interviews.
[2:35:35 - 2:35:40] ▶
And you were minding me when you started talking about that stuff, I need to go back and
[2:35:40 - 2:35:45] ▶
revisit and do a piece on that because that is testimony that the world hasn't seen.
[2:35:45 - 2:35:51] ▶
And I know the individual has you goes, yeah, I'm going to do some plans with it, but
[2:35:51 - 2:35:56] ▶
I managed to get some footage out and I credited the guy in the phenomenon.
[2:35:56 - 2:36:02] ▶
I'm sorry, I can't remember more details on that, but apparently it's the most dramatic
[2:36:02 - 2:36:06] ▶
case and testimony ever heard ever given about a UFO in the news.
[2:36:06 - 2:36:12] ▶
It's in the credits of the phenomenon.
[2:36:15 - 2:36:17] ▶
His name will come to me and when it does all, all that, you know, you could put it over
[2:36:17 - 2:36:21] ▶
the screen because I'm struggling to remember the guy.
[2:36:21 - 2:36:25] ▶
But it's so, you know, another interesting aspect of the UFO's and Newk's thing that
[2:36:25 - 2:36:30] ▶
I almost hesitate to say because I think maybe in the minds of certain people who are,
[2:36:30 - 2:36:35] ▶
you know, not capable of understanding this possibility, it sort of marginalizes the
[2:36:35 - 2:36:40] ▶
story a little bit is that I think a high percentage of people who've had close encounters
[2:36:40 - 2:36:45] ▶
of the crafts themselves around nuclear bases have actually had abduction cases as well.
[2:36:45 - 2:36:50] ▶
So I was on the phone with Hastings and it was like, I was like, you know, what percentage
[2:36:50 - 2:36:54] ▶
of the, because he, he wrote a follow up beyond.
[2:36:54 - 2:36:59] ▶
He wrote a follow up book called Confessions with Bob Jacobs.
[2:36:59 - 2:37:03] ▶
Bob Jacobs was a photo instrumentation specialist, Brandon Burr.
[2:37:03 - 2:37:06] ▶
Seize the UFO circling around, you know, the Atlas V.
[2:37:09 - 2:37:12] ▶
And then therefore, his office of special investigation.
[2:37:15 - 2:37:16] ▶
He's a message he gave, Cropatric.
[2:37:20 - 2:37:21] ▶
Nobody say he could be a little hotheaded sometimes.
[2:37:21 - 2:37:24] ▶
If he didn't, it's words.
[2:37:24 - 2:37:26] ▶
I posted it off my Twitter.
[2:37:27 - 2:37:28] ▶
Yeah, I'm really funny.
[2:37:28 - 2:37:29] ▶
Dave, Dave Grush told me he's going back to DC sometime in the next week or so.
[2:37:31 - 2:37:36] ▶
I said, Dave, please do something for me.
[2:37:36 - 2:37:40] ▶
Tell Dr. Cropatric, the Dr. Jacob says, fuck you.
[2:37:40 - 2:37:43] ▶
That's unbelievable.
[2:37:43 - 2:37:44] ▶
He was so upset because apparently he went, he went and met with him.
[2:37:44 - 2:37:48] ▶
He gave him all the, the documents and the case that happened and told him where the
[2:37:48 - 2:37:52] ▶
footage was or where it should have been.
[2:37:52 - 2:37:54] ▶
And it was taken and I guess Cropatric just completely dismissed all of that.
[2:37:54 - 2:37:58] ▶
He's been traumatized because he and Dr. Jacobs was, I've never seen.
[2:37:58 - 2:38:01] ▶
He's so funny and he's so, I just love that guy.
[2:38:02 - 2:38:04] ▶
Well, they, they took him out as a photo instrumentation specialist.
[2:38:04 - 2:38:08] ▶
And then they said that he never worked at the Air Force, which is ridiculous.
[2:38:08 - 2:38:11] ▶
He had all the documentation that I covered it and out of the blue.
[2:38:11 - 2:38:13] ▶
And then his former, his former boss came out later and was like, no, this guy worked
[2:38:14 - 2:38:17] ▶
Like it would work anytime.
[2:38:18 - 2:38:19] ▶
But they tried to erase him.
[2:38:19 - 2:38:20] ▶
It's really, it's really messed up.
[2:38:21 - 2:38:23] ▶
This is time and time again.
[2:38:23 - 2:38:25] ▶
Bob Hastings, the F.E. Warren guys that I mentioned, the misleaders, they, their careers were really
[2:38:25 - 2:38:30] ▶
You, you, and I know what I saw, you talk about, um, uh, peniston, you know, not, not making
[2:38:32 - 2:38:37] ▶
it to his high of a rink as you probably could have, as you, you know, it was a witness
[2:38:37 - 2:38:41] ▶
It was a great enhancing move at all.
[2:38:42 - 2:38:44] ▶
So, but the, but the really crazy sub thread that I think people are.
[2:38:45 - 2:38:49] ▶
It's a total legend.
[2:38:52 - 2:38:53] ▶
It's a total legend.
[2:38:53 - 2:38:54] ▶
But this book that he wrote after UFOs and Newtons is called Confessions and it's about
[2:38:55 - 2:38:58] ▶
his own, his personal experience, abduction cases, put his reputation on the line for that
[2:38:58 - 2:39:03] ▶
I commend him for that.
[2:39:04 - 2:39:05] ▶
Because that's, that's a risky move.
[2:39:06 - 2:39:07] ▶
And it's, it's tough, I think, for people to realize that, I mean, that guy is so detailed
[2:39:08 - 2:39:12] ▶
He emailed me, I'd never met him.
[2:39:13 - 2:39:14] ▶
He emailed me after I did my piece with Grush and he was like, actually, it was like
[2:39:14 - 2:39:18] ▶
a lower percentage of misaliers that I interviewed.
[2:39:18 - 2:39:21] ▶
It was like 12 out of the 167.
[2:39:21 - 2:39:23] ▶
I mean, he wrote me this long thing.
[2:39:25 - 2:39:27] ▶
Wow, super detailed.
[2:39:27 - 2:39:28] ▶
And I was like, thank you.
[2:39:29 - 2:39:30] ▶
I was like, I'll should make a correction.
[2:39:30 - 2:39:33] ▶
You know, but it was like an extremely semantic thing.
[2:39:33 - 2:39:35] ▶
But I was like, oh, this guy's legit.
[2:39:35 - 2:39:36] ▶
And we talked and I could tell that he was extremely detailed oriented.
[2:39:37 - 2:39:41] ▶
And then there's this bizarre kind of follow-up angle of like, but, you know, I've also had
[2:39:41 - 2:39:45] ▶
these experiences myself.
[2:39:45 - 2:39:47] ▶
By the way, in the worldview where they're showing up on these, you know, nuclear bases,
[2:39:47 - 2:39:52] ▶
which are incredibly protected for everything else, of course, they can show up in your bedroom,
[2:39:52 - 2:39:57] ▶
you know, and they can, they can track the people themselves.
[2:39:57 - 2:40:00] ▶
And that's a weird thing to admit.
[2:40:00 - 2:40:01] ▶
I've never had those experiences, but I've met very credible people that I have tremendous
[2:40:01 - 2:40:06] ▶
respect for that with nothing to gain and everything to lose that I have to say.
[2:40:06 - 2:40:13] ▶
I was like, I believe them.
[2:40:13 - 2:40:15] ▶
And I've covered that aspect of the phenomenon in any of my films.
[2:40:16 - 2:40:20] ▶
And I've had people criticize me for that.
[2:40:21 - 2:40:23] ▶
But it's like, I feel like baby steps.
[2:40:24 - 2:40:26] ▶
I feel like you can't go too far because I know my own progression is taking decades.
[2:40:26 - 2:40:31] ▶
Like, you know, I can, like I said, I'm going to know it's a bolts kind of guy.
[2:40:31 - 2:40:35] ▶
I need that's entering into a realm that there's even less evidence for, right?
[2:40:35 - 2:40:39] ▶
Then some of these other cases.
[2:40:40 - 2:40:41] ▶
Although, although you do have like implants.
[2:40:41 - 2:40:43] ▶
Well, I'll tell you.
[2:40:44 - 2:40:45] ▶
And I met with Bob, I'm not Bob Jacob.
[2:40:46 - 2:40:52] ▶
I'm looking at his face right now.
[2:40:53 - 2:40:55] ▶
He's written the book.
[2:40:55 - 2:40:56] ▶
He written a number of books on so-called alien abductions.
[2:40:56 - 2:41:00] ▶
Leslie Kane was with Ralph.
[2:41:04 - 2:41:05] ▶
He attended this event.
[2:41:07 - 2:41:08] ▶
In a case, I met with him.
[2:41:08 - 2:41:10] ▶
And he said, he ended up dying like a year.
[2:41:10 - 2:41:13] ▶
He ended up dying like a year or two later of cancer.
[2:41:14 - 2:41:18] ▶
And he was all excited.
[2:41:18 - 2:41:19] ▶
I was in New York City to see Leslie.
[2:41:19 - 2:41:21] ▶
We were putting on this event together.
[2:41:21 - 2:41:23] ▶
And he's like, oh, I don't have coffee with you.
[2:41:23 - 2:41:25] ▶
I want to show you something.
[2:41:25 - 2:41:26] ▶
And he was all excited.
[2:41:26 - 2:41:27] ▶
And I'm going to really that into the whole.
[2:41:27 - 2:41:29] ▶
I just haven't really looked in, you know, professionally for any of my films because I
[2:41:30 - 2:41:34] ▶
feel like it's a slippery slope.
[2:41:34 - 2:41:35] ▶
But in any case, he had a number of so-called experiences from all of them.
[2:41:35 - 2:41:43] ▶
And he said, I want you to draw what you see on the inside of the ship on the table.
[2:41:43 - 2:41:50] ▶
And they all drew the same symbol on the wall.
[2:41:50 - 2:41:52] ▶
What was the symbol?
[2:41:52 - 2:41:53] ▶
But it was like, oh, you can't know.
[2:41:54 - 2:41:55] ▶
It was like almost 20 years ago.
[2:41:57 - 2:41:58] ▶
But I remember looking at the different variations of this clearly, they're looking at the same
[2:41:58 - 2:42:03] ▶
Do you know how the hell?
[2:42:04 - 2:42:05] ▶
No, no, I'd know I'd do it.
[2:42:05 - 2:42:06] ▶
I'm going to take it to some balls.
[2:42:06 - 2:42:07] ▶
But he was, like, we had a 15 minute thing and he was super excited about it.
[2:42:07 - 2:42:10] ▶
And he had drawings from all these different people from-
[2:42:10 - 2:42:13] ▶
We have to figure it out.
[2:42:13 - 2:42:14] ▶
None of them knew each other.
[2:42:14 - 2:42:15] ▶
Yeah, again, this is not my area of expertise.
[2:42:16 - 2:42:19] ▶
And I don't really look- I don't not look into them.
[2:42:19 - 2:42:21] ▶
And again, I suspend.
[2:42:23 - 2:42:24] ▶
But that was the most compelling evidence for alleged abduction cases because they were
[2:42:24 - 2:42:29] ▶
all drawing a slightly different variation of that.
[2:42:29 - 2:42:33] ▶
He was like, what do you see?
[2:42:35 - 2:42:36] ▶
And they were drawing it.
[2:42:36 - 2:42:37] ▶
And it was like, oh my god.
[2:42:38 - 2:42:39] ▶
How is this even possible?
[2:42:41 - 2:42:43] ▶
And he was all excited about it.
[2:42:43 - 2:42:44] ▶
So anyway, that's my two cents on the alien abduction aspect.
[2:42:44 - 2:42:48] ▶
Well, you have Gary Nolan.
[2:42:48 - 2:42:49] ▶
Gary Nolan is a Stanford professor.
[2:42:49 - 2:42:51] ▶
He's claimed not an abduction, but aliens at the foot of his bed.
[2:42:51 - 2:42:56] ▶
I would have been probably six or seven because it was in our first house that my parents
[2:42:56 - 2:43:02] ▶
had bought in Windsor of little men in the bedroom.
[2:43:02 - 2:43:07] ▶
I mean, I was awake.
[2:43:07 - 2:43:10] ▶
I knew they were there.
[2:43:10 - 2:43:11] ▶
And so you have some extremely credible people who have done very real things outside of
[2:43:13 - 2:43:20] ▶
UFOs and aliens or whatever.
[2:43:20 - 2:43:22] ▶
He's a Nobel nominee every year.
[2:43:22 - 2:43:24] ▶
What a risky thing to report on what they would create.
[2:43:25 - 2:43:29] ▶
Why would anybody do that to themselves knowing it's like, you know, well, that's what
[2:43:29 - 2:43:34] ▶
I think the dirty secret is that everybody has something autobiographical and that causes
[2:43:34 - 2:43:41] ▶
them to look into this or, you know, and I think that that's should be owned and it
[2:43:41 - 2:43:47] ▶
shouldn't be a source of shame or.
[2:43:47 - 2:43:49] ▶
Yeah, you know, I talked last night because I've had my own experiences, you know, and
[2:43:49 - 2:43:53] ▶
I just said, you know, I'd rather just not.
[2:43:53 - 2:43:55] ▶
And the reason my reason behind is it really has nothing to do with where my position
[2:43:56 - 2:44:02] ▶
stands today with the phenomenon.
[2:44:02 - 2:44:04] ▶
Yeah, and I think that people might interpret that as like, oh, well, he's clearly jaded
[2:44:04 - 2:44:07] ▶
because he saw something or he thinks he saw something.
[2:44:07 - 2:44:11] ▶
I have no interest in proving what also would be weird if you hadn't.
[2:44:11 - 2:44:15] ▶
It'd be I think it'd be weirder if you hadn't seen anything.
[2:44:15 - 2:44:18] ▶
So it's like you're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
[2:44:18 - 2:44:22] ▶
Yeah, if you do, it's like, I base, I base my beliefs today on my interaction with witnesses,
[2:44:22 - 2:44:32] ▶
my research, you know, I mean, I mean, I mean, we're going to the National Archives and
[2:44:32 - 2:44:39] ▶
that's a whole story, but coming up all those original documents from Project Blue
[2:44:39 - 2:44:43] ▶
Book Files that were so amazing because it was right there in black and white, some color
[2:44:43 - 2:44:48] ▶
of the documentation of one of my favorite landing cases.
[2:44:48 - 2:44:51] ▶
It was like the footprints of the alien was documented in a diagram by the first military
[2:44:51 - 2:44:55] ▶
officer on the scene like, oh my God, you know, like it's right there.
[2:44:55 - 2:44:59] ▶
And so that is why that in all the other cases, all around the world that I've investigated
[2:45:00 - 2:45:05] ▶
is why I believe what I believe today.
[2:45:05 - 2:45:07] ▶
And I feel like if I start talking about some personal experience that I had, you know,
[2:45:07 - 2:45:10] ▶
people are like, oh, well, you know, I started there.
[2:45:10 - 2:45:13] ▶
I don't really, you know what I mean?
[2:45:13 - 2:45:15] ▶
I don't think it's going to help me any bit.
[2:45:16 - 2:45:17] ▶
And it doesn't really matter.
[2:45:17 - 2:45:19] ▶
Well, I don't know what it was, everybody.
[2:45:20 - 2:45:23] ▶
Yeah, I mean, like, you know, I thought James was the freak.
[2:45:23 - 2:45:25] ▶
No, no, I think I think quite the contrary.
[2:45:26 - 2:45:29] ▶
But you, I think sold some UFO footage to Logan Paul.
[2:45:29 - 2:45:35] ▶
Well, no, I didn't sell it to him.
[2:45:35 - 2:45:38] ▶
No, here's what happens.
[2:45:38 - 2:45:40] ▶
So this is so funny.
[2:45:41 - 2:45:43] ▶
You want it as podcasts?
[2:45:44 - 2:45:46] ▶
In the 90s on my first documentary, I was working with this guy Chuck Clark.
[2:45:49 - 2:45:56] ▶
A self-described military watchdog says FBI agents and other lawmen used a sealed search warrant
[2:45:56 - 2:46:03] ▶
to seize his property, including computers and personal files.
[2:46:03 - 2:46:07] ▶
Bob Lazar was just exploding in the headlines.
[2:46:07 - 2:46:09] ▶
It was all over the place.
[2:46:09 - 2:46:10] ▶
I think he came, met public in 89.
[2:46:11 - 2:46:14] ▶
But in any case, it was in the early mid 90s, whatever, and everyone's talking about
[2:46:14 - 2:46:17] ▶
Bob Lazar and his tape.
[2:46:17 - 2:46:19] ▶
I mean, it was all over the news.
[2:46:20 - 2:46:22] ▶
Everybody's, you know, because wow, it's true.
[2:46:22 - 2:46:23] ▶
And Chuck Clark, who had written a handbook on Area 51 S4 guide, and he was an amateur
[2:46:26 - 2:46:34] ▶
astronomer, and he was out under the night sky quite often, in and around the base or
[2:46:34 - 2:46:39] ▶
not in the classified areas.
[2:46:39 - 2:46:41] ▶
He had figured out a way that there were a handful of vantage points on these specific
[2:46:41 - 2:46:47] ▶
mountain ranges where he could spy on the base.
[2:46:47 - 2:46:51] ▶
And he would take people out there and stuff.
[2:46:51 - 2:46:53] ▶
And so, and he had a sighting of something that exhibited technology that was just, you
[2:46:53 - 2:46:57] ▶
know, light years like, ding, ding, ding.
[2:46:57 - 2:46:59] ▶
So I was interviewing for that, and I was going back and forth during that period of production
[2:46:59 - 2:47:05] ▶
and became friends and hung out with them on numerous occasions.
[2:47:05 - 2:47:09] ▶
And one day he called me up, and he said, I'll give you the target version, but he said,
[2:47:09 - 2:47:14] ▶
James, I got something you need to see.
[2:47:14 - 2:47:15] ▶
And I was like, oh, okay.
[2:47:15 - 2:47:17] ▶
Well, I'm like 12 hours away, at least.
[2:47:17 - 2:47:20] ▶
And he said, well, you know, can you tell me anything more?
[2:47:20 - 2:47:23] ▶
He goes, well, I could tell you that when you see it, your jaw is going to hit the floor.
[2:47:23 - 2:47:28] ▶
Can't see my plans jump from a car.
[2:47:30 - 2:47:32] ▶
Went straight out to the alien or the Rachel Nevada.
[2:47:33 - 2:47:38] ▶
Go into it, he had a trailer, and he popped in this VHS tape, and there were two guys on
[2:47:38 - 2:47:44] ▶
a typical road trip.
[2:47:44 - 2:47:46] ▶
I've done it myself.
[2:47:47 - 2:47:48] ▶
You know, the video tape in each other, goofing off, and listen to music, they're driving
[2:47:48 - 2:47:51] ▶
down the long road, super remote desert highway, they're goofing off and they're lily lily
[2:47:51 - 2:47:57] ▶
in, and then all of a sudden they're super serious.
[2:47:57 - 2:48:02] ▶
They're inside a parked car, it's dusk, and they're arguing in the car like one of them's
[2:48:02 - 2:48:12] ▶
like the object is either over them or coming towards them and almost over them, and they're
[2:48:12 - 2:48:17] ▶
yelling back and forth in the car, and it sounds to me like they're trying to crawl under
[2:48:17 - 2:48:21] ▶
the seat, that's what it sounded like at the time.
[2:48:21 - 2:48:25] ▶
Then the dashboard lights up, and I could see all these shadows, early moving around,
[2:48:25 - 2:48:29] ▶
so the source of light is moving, because it's causing the shadows in the inside of the
[2:48:29 - 2:48:32] ▶
Then one of the kids says I'm getting out, and the guy's telling him not to get out, and
[2:48:36 - 2:48:40] ▶
he's like, I'm getting out anyway, and he gets out.
[2:48:40 - 2:48:43] ▶
The next thing you see is an orange disc shape thing just wobbling in like it looks like
[2:48:43 - 2:48:52] ▶
magic the way it just kind of just hovers there like this, and I tell you, man, I was like,
[2:48:52 - 2:48:58] ▶
holy shit, where did you get this?
[2:48:58 - 2:49:01] ▶
So I was telling the story to Logan Paul, and he's like, yeah, yeah, the footage disappears.
[2:49:01 - 2:49:05] ▶
I said, well, you know, the sky truck, Clark barely still has it, but it had been 26 years
[2:49:05 - 2:49:11] ▶
of a VHS tape playing over and over and over and over and over and over.
[2:49:11 - 2:49:14] ▶
Yeah, it's going to be seriously degraded.
[2:49:14 - 2:49:16] ▶
Anybody knows half inch VHS playing over those heads for 25 years, it's not going to
[2:49:16 - 2:49:22] ▶
It's going to have dropout galore.
[2:49:23 - 2:49:25] ▶
I mean, you know, so I guess at the time, at that time, if this guy's so pissed off with
[2:49:25 - 2:49:32] ▶
me now, he won't even talk to me, but whatever, sorry, you know, I feel like the one that he
[2:49:32 - 2:49:37] ▶
should be pissed off with, the truck Clark for not sharing that footage when he could have,
[2:49:37 - 2:49:41] ▶
Well, he's pissed off of you.
[2:49:43 - 2:49:44] ▶
Oh, the, the, he's a private investigator.
[2:49:44 - 2:49:46] ▶
I can't remember his name on top, but in any case, I wouldn't say it anyway, because he's
[2:49:46 - 2:49:49] ▶
said, but he had found Chuck Clark and he was in touch with Chuck Clark.
[2:49:49 - 2:49:52] ▶
I said, do not mention my name because if you do, Chuck Clark's not going to meet with
[2:49:52 - 2:49:55] ▶
you because Chuck Clark is pissed off with me because I asked him every two years for 15
[2:49:55 - 2:50:01] ▶
years to get that tape.
[2:50:01 - 2:50:03] ▶
He said, you asked me again, I'm never speaking to you.
[2:50:03 - 2:50:05] ▶
And I asked him again, because I had so many people on that was willing to give 30 grand
[2:50:05 - 2:50:09] ▶
And I said, I'll ask, can I ask?
[2:50:10 - 2:50:11] ▶
And that was that he cut me loose.
[2:50:11 - 2:50:12] ▶
Never going to talk to me again.
[2:50:12 - 2:50:14] ▶
And he's, he's made up his word.
[2:50:14 - 2:50:16] ▶
So, so I tell him, I said, keep my name out of it.
[2:50:16 - 2:50:19] ▶
And, and so this guy's going to go out and Chuck says, yeah, I still have the VHS tape.
[2:50:19 - 2:50:22] ▶
I'll show it to you.
[2:50:22 - 2:50:23] ▶
And this is a couple years ago.
[2:50:23 - 2:50:25] ▶
So yeah, couple years ago.
[2:50:25 - 2:50:28] ▶
So I'm telling like after the Logan Bull interview, you know, shut the cameras off and we're
[2:50:28 - 2:50:33] ▶
talking and Logan, I said, well, you know, the guy's going to go, I got this guy.
[2:50:33 - 2:50:36] ▶
He's going to go, he's going to go meet with Chuck Clark and Logan's like, well, where is
[2:50:37 - 2:50:41] ▶
I said, he's in Arizona somewhere remote Arizona.
[2:50:42 - 2:50:44] ▶
So Logan's like, I'm going to meet, I'm going to meet with him.
[2:50:44 - 2:50:47] ▶
I said, do whatever you got to do to get that footage, you know, like that's been sitting
[2:50:47 - 2:50:51] ▶
So I guess he bought like a, I want to say about 100 grand in cash.
[2:50:52 - 2:50:55] ▶
I think, I think it was 100 grand.
[2:50:55 - 2:50:57] ▶
It was at least 50, might have been 100.
[2:50:57 - 2:51:00] ▶
And I get asked him.
[2:51:00 - 2:51:01] ▶
And he's out there and he's got a couple of button games on his thing.
[2:51:01 - 2:51:06] ▶
And the tape was pretty, pretty degraded, you know, but he filmed, you know, can I see
[2:51:06 - 2:51:15] ▶
it again, you know, and repositioned a couple of that budget ties.
[2:51:15 - 2:51:21] ▶
And I guess the algorithm on the ground, he wouldn't take it.
[2:51:21 - 2:51:24] ▶
And anyway, that whole story broke.
[2:51:24 - 2:51:27] ▶
And I wouldn't take 100 grand for that.
[2:51:27 - 2:51:29] ▶
He's not going to sell it.
[2:51:30 - 2:51:31] ▶
It's not going to happen.
[2:51:31 - 2:51:32] ▶
And so here's the real kicker.
[2:51:32 - 2:51:35] ▶
What really gets me.
[2:51:35 - 2:51:38] ▶
So I don't know what Logan's going to do with the footage, but Logan said it's pretty,
[2:51:38 - 2:51:41] ▶
he's like, you could see it wobbling, but it's really degraded.
[2:51:41 - 2:51:44] ▶
I mean, again, VHS tapes don't last, you know, should have been digitized or put on it.
[2:51:44 - 2:51:50] ▶
The footage is compelling, not convincing.
[2:51:50 - 2:51:55] ▶
The tape had been worn down.
[2:51:58 - 2:51:59] ▶
It's been played probably over a hundred times.
[2:51:59 - 2:52:01] ▶
And so the quality is not great.
[2:52:01 - 2:52:04] ▶
And everything about it screams bullshit, which is the true reason I haven't released
[2:52:04 - 2:52:11] ▶
But before that happened, and right around that time, this really frustrates me, I contacted
[2:52:12 - 2:52:18] ▶
And I said, George, as I was wrapping up the phenomenon, I said, George, you have got
[2:52:19 - 2:52:25] ▶
to go and get this tape from Chuck Clark or at least see it.
[2:52:25 - 2:52:29] ▶
George is like, oh, yeah, I know Chuck Clark.
[2:52:29 - 2:52:31] ▶
I did a whole story on him for the news, local news station.
[2:52:31 - 2:52:34] ▶
His place was was ransacked by the by the Fets.
[2:52:34 - 2:52:38] ▶
You know, they came in and I don't know what he had.
[2:52:38 - 2:52:40] ▶
Maybe he had photographs of planes and hangers.
[2:52:40 - 2:52:42] ▶
I don't know, but he had that or maybe it was that footage.
[2:52:42 - 2:52:45] ▶
I said, you got to go.
[2:52:46 - 2:52:48] ▶
And I kept telling him, I can't do it.
[2:52:49 - 2:52:51] ▶
But I'm telling you, I've seen this tape and it's amazing.
[2:52:51 - 2:52:53] ▶
And like, you got to go find, he's like, I'll get on it and I can't push him, George.
[2:52:53 - 2:52:57] ▶
And I like George Namp a lot and I have tremendous respect for him.
[2:52:57 - 2:53:01] ▶
And I can't push him.
[2:53:01 - 2:53:02] ▶
And one day he goes, listen, man, you're not my damn wife or, you know, my girl would
[2:53:02 - 2:53:06] ▶
I said, he goes, I'm really big.
[2:53:09 - 2:53:10] ▶
I said, okay, sorry.
[2:53:10 - 2:53:12] ▶
I'm just trying to hand you what I feel is the best you've done all this reporting for
[2:53:12 - 2:53:16] ▶
all these years on Area 51, Bob Lazar and UFO's at Area 51.
[2:53:16 - 2:53:20] ▶
And I saw the best footage I've ever seen in my life out there.
[2:53:20 - 2:53:25] ▶
So George Namp doesn't go out there.
[2:53:25 - 2:53:30] ▶
The guy that gave it to Chuck Clark was a TV producer in Los Angeles and he had it on like
[2:53:30 - 2:53:37] ▶
a beta SP tape and a master, I'm told, and from that master, he gave a copy to Chuck
[2:53:37 - 2:53:45] ▶
So as soon as the private eye got the name of that individual, we went after him and he
[2:53:47 - 2:53:53] ▶
So if we would have gotten there, just if George would have gotten there just a month or
[2:53:55 - 2:53:58] ▶
two earlier, we probably would have had the master on beta SP.
[2:53:58 - 2:54:02] ▶
So we contacted the guy's network where he worked.
[2:54:03 - 2:54:07] ▶
Then we contacted his son, got in touch with his son.
[2:54:07 - 2:54:09] ▶
And his son couldn't be bothered.
[2:54:09 - 2:54:10] ▶
He's like, my dad just died.
[2:54:10 - 2:54:12] ▶
You're talking to me about a UFO tape?
[2:54:12 - 2:54:14] ▶
You know what I mean?
[2:54:15 - 2:54:16] ▶
So it might be ripe.
[2:54:16 - 2:54:17] ▶
I can't really do it because Chuck doesn't like me.
[2:54:17 - 2:54:20] ▶
And now this new private eye because of Logan Paul going out with cameras he found out
[2:54:20 - 2:54:24] ▶
and now he's pissed at me.
[2:54:24 - 2:54:26] ▶
You know, and I'm like, you know what?
[2:54:26 - 2:54:27] ▶
All spare like as far as I'm concerned, Chuck Clark's the one that kept us really compelling
[2:54:27 - 2:54:32] ▶
I even said to Chuck, just put me in touch with the guy that gave it to you and let me
[2:54:34 - 2:54:38] ▶
And he wouldn't do it.
[2:54:40 - 2:54:41] ▶
So Chuck was kind of in on it.
[2:54:41 - 2:54:42] ▶
So anyway, I went to area 51 just like last year.
[2:54:42 - 2:54:45] ▶
And I went to the little alien and I talked to some people there.
[2:54:45 - 2:54:48] ▶
They've been there, known me since I was in my 20s.
[2:54:48 - 2:54:52] ▶
And she was like, you think we're that stupid?
[2:54:52 - 2:54:54] ▶
You don't think we would have made a digital copy?
[2:54:54 - 2:54:56] ▶
Give me your number.
[2:54:59 - 2:55:00] ▶
And she's like, there's reasons why that tape hasn't been leaked.
[2:55:01 - 2:55:04] ▶
I was like, well, can you tell me?
[2:55:05 - 2:55:07] ▶
But you think we're stupid?
[2:55:09 - 2:55:10] ▶
You don't think we made a digital copy?
[2:55:10 - 2:55:11] ▶
And looked at me like that.
[2:55:11 - 2:55:12] ▶
And then she just walked away.
[2:55:13 - 2:55:14] ▶
And I was like, so wow.
[2:55:14 - 2:55:17] ▶
So Logan Paul's like, this is seriously eroded and chewed up.
[2:55:17 - 2:55:23] ▶
But yeah, he's what's it's so why won't he put the video if like he has something to
[2:55:23 - 2:55:26] ▶
Because Chuck said I'll sue you.
[2:55:27 - 2:55:28] ▶
And two, he can handle it.
[2:55:29 - 2:55:31] ▶
It's not, you know, it's not crystal clear.
[2:55:31 - 2:55:35] ▶
It's like, I saw it when it was a week old.
[2:55:35 - 2:55:37] ▶
You know, I saw it was pretty damn impressive.
[2:55:38 - 2:55:40] ▶
And this is a button cam version.
[2:55:41 - 2:55:42] ▶
And then he was like, you know, he's like, you're gonna be corrupted.
[2:55:43 - 2:55:45] ▶
He said he had a stack.
[2:55:48 - 2:55:49] ▶
So the unfortunate thing is the guy that gave him that I'm sure there was a master tape.
[2:55:51 - 2:55:55] ▶
Hopefully then when they cleared out his cubby holes at this news organization, they didn't
[2:55:55 - 2:56:00] ▶
throw everything away.
[2:56:00 - 2:56:01] ▶
Hopefully maybe his son got it.
[2:56:02 - 2:56:03] ▶
But man, I've been chasing it since I was your age.
[2:56:03 - 2:56:05] ▶
You know, younger than you.
[2:56:06 - 2:56:07] ▶
Like, I've done everything I can.
[2:56:08 - 2:56:09] ▶
It's not like I'm giving up or anything.
[2:56:09 - 2:56:10] ▶
I've been chasing it.
[2:56:11 - 2:56:12] ▶
It's going to be a long way to go.
[2:56:15 - 2:56:16] ▶
And I'm going to be in the program.
[2:56:17 - 2:56:18] ▶
I got to go back to Brazil.
[2:56:18 - 2:56:19] ▶
It'll come back around.
[2:56:19 - 2:56:20] ▶
I got to go back to Brazil.
[2:56:20 - 2:56:21] ▶
I got to update that film.
[2:56:21 - 2:56:22] ▶
I got an event at the National Plus Club I want to do.
[2:56:23 - 2:56:24] ▶
I want to film that.
[2:56:25 - 2:56:26] ▶
It's going to be a modern day version of I know what I saw.
[2:56:26 - 2:56:28] ▶
I wish I could clone myself.
[2:56:28 - 2:56:29] ▶
There's only so much I can do.
[2:56:29 - 2:56:30] ▶
And I'm raising a ten year old.
[2:56:30 - 2:56:31] ▶
That's the most important thing.
[2:56:34 - 2:56:35] ▶
What's the important thing?
[2:56:36 - 2:56:37] ▶
And I'm dealing with like nightmare scenarios of the industry.
[2:56:37 - 2:56:38] ▶
Not making it easy, I'll be here.
[2:56:39 - 2:56:41] ▶
Well, hey, you're doing a hard thing.
[2:56:42 - 2:56:44] ▶
You're getting a very important chord treat that.
[2:56:44 - 2:56:47] ▶
And it would make, you signed up for a hard,
[2:56:47 - 2:56:50] ▶
you know, it's a hard long road.
[2:56:50 - 2:56:52] ▶
So at least I'm getting laughed at a little less lately.
[2:56:52 - 2:56:55] ▶
I've been getting laughed at.
[2:56:56 - 2:56:57] ▶
I've been laughing my whole,
[2:56:57 - 2:56:58] ▶
hey, you should feel very vindicated.
[2:56:58 - 2:57:00] ▶
My whole adult life.
[2:57:00 - 2:57:01] ▶
I mean, that, that's a lot of laughter.
[2:57:02 - 2:57:04] ▶
That's a lot of laughter.
[2:57:04 - 2:57:05] ▶
Well, you should be laughing now.
[2:57:05 - 2:57:07] ▶
You really, I think, have been vindicated and proven right
[2:57:07 - 2:57:10] ▶
And you were there before it was popular.
[2:57:11 - 2:57:13] ▶
So, well, we have, we have you and I are indebted.
[2:57:13 - 2:57:16] ▶
Like, you know, we've got people like Stanton,
[2:57:16 - 2:57:18] ▶
Friedman and Dr. Heineck and Keeho and, you know,
[2:57:18 - 2:57:23] ▶
all these people that came before us that were advocates
[2:57:25 - 2:57:28] ▶
and pushing and they really had it tough.
[2:57:28 - 2:57:30] ▶
I mean, they never got to see what we're seeing right now.
[2:57:33 - 2:57:34] ▶
And I'm fortunate as someone who's been doing this
[2:57:35 - 2:57:37] ▶
as long as I have to see what's happening today.
[2:57:37 - 2:57:40] ▶
I was, when I was watching Congucle earrings,
[2:57:41 - 2:57:42] ▶
I'm not kidding, man.
[2:57:42 - 2:57:43] ▶
Tears just flowing down my face for an hour and a half straight.
[2:57:43 - 2:57:47] ▶
I was like, it's coming out.
[2:57:48 - 2:57:49] ▶
Look, yeah, we're not having the, you know,
[2:57:49 - 2:57:52] ▶
the progress that we'd like to see is having it as quickly
[2:57:52 - 2:57:54] ▶
as I'd say be patient, you guys.
[2:57:54 - 2:57:55] ▶
Like, I was in that room.
[2:57:55 - 2:57:57] ▶
You should have been in that room.
[2:57:57 - 2:57:58] ▶
I, I had a conflicting, I had a conflicting thing
[2:57:58 - 2:58:01] ▶
and I just simply couldn't be there.
[2:58:01 - 2:58:04] ▶
There's something going on for a filming.
[2:58:04 - 2:58:05] ▶
I was delivering something.
[2:58:05 - 2:58:06] ▶
I was like, if I killed myself, I could have made it.
[2:58:07 - 2:58:09] ▶
But it was like that.
[2:58:09 - 2:58:10] ▶
But I just say, you know, be patient.
[2:58:13 - 2:58:15] ▶
There's, we're going to see significant pushback,
[2:58:15 - 2:58:17] ▶
Louis Luzando's book.
[2:58:17 - 2:58:19] ▶
There's other documentaries.
[2:58:19 - 2:58:20] ▶
There's the program coming out.
[2:58:20 - 2:58:21] ▶
I don't see quite honestly how the program is not going
[2:58:21 - 2:58:24] ▶
I think we put together a pretty compelling case.
[2:58:26 - 2:58:27] ▶
It's incredible, right?
[2:58:27 - 2:58:28] ▶
Like, I think it will make waves.
[2:58:29 - 2:58:30] ▶
And, and I pushed it.
[2:58:30 - 2:58:32] ▶
I wanted a good, strong base hit.
[2:58:32 - 2:58:34] ▶
Because I knew that I couldn't take the time
[2:58:34 - 2:58:35] ▶
that it took to produce the phenomenon.
[2:58:35 - 2:58:37] ▶
I mean, the phenomenon, in my opinion,
[2:58:37 - 2:58:40] ▶
I hate to tube my own horn.
[2:58:40 - 2:58:41] ▶
It was a group effort.
[2:58:41 - 2:58:41] ▶
But it's kind of a masterpiece, in terms of like the production
[2:58:41 - 2:58:45] ▶
qualities and the B-roll and the archive footage
[2:58:45 - 2:58:47] ▶
that we got and stitching the whole story together.
[2:58:47 - 2:58:50] ▶
I worked with this guy, Mark Barra.
[2:58:50 - 2:58:52] ▶
She's a really brilliant writer.
[2:58:52 - 2:58:53] ▶
He's really instrumental in helping
[2:58:53 - 2:58:55] ▶
like stitch it all together in a very comprehensive way.
[2:58:55 - 2:58:59] ▶
And I'm very proud of that film.
[2:58:59 - 2:59:00] ▶
And I'll always be proud of that film.
[2:59:00 - 2:59:02] ▶
Things are moving quickly right now.
[2:59:03 - 2:59:05] ▶
And I wanted to get the program out as quickly as I could,
[2:59:05 - 2:59:07] ▶
because it's relevant now.
[2:59:07 - 2:59:09] ▶
And a lot of the people that are risking themselves
[2:59:10 - 2:59:11] ▶
coming forward and meeting with me,
[2:59:11 - 2:59:12] ▶
they wanted out now, because they want to keep that momentum.
[2:59:12 - 2:59:15] ▶
And so, but I'm still very proud of it.
[2:59:15 - 2:59:18] ▶
I think it's a very good, you know what I mean?
[2:59:18 - 2:59:20] ▶
The assertion that the US government
[2:59:20 - 2:59:21] ▶
has spaceships of non-human intelligence in their possession.
[2:59:21 - 2:59:25] ▶
That kind of revelation unerse peoples beliefs.
[2:59:25 - 2:59:30] ▶
I would go to jail to say things that I'm
[2:59:30 - 2:59:32] ▶
in exposed to in the program.
[2:59:32 - 2:59:35] ▶
So I've known about for a while.
[2:59:41 - 2:59:43] ▶
He's a story that's out there.
[2:59:43 - 2:59:45] ▶
This hacker from the UK, who is hacking into American military
[2:59:45 - 2:59:53] ▶
database, biggest hack in US history,
[2:59:53 - 2:59:55] ▶
he's getting into NSA archives.
[2:59:55 - 2:59:58] ▶
And it's a DIA CIA NASA, you name it.
[2:59:58 - 3:00:01] ▶
And a page comes up and it's this list of 11 or 12
[3:00:01 - 3:00:07] ▶
After a year, he got paid for it.
[3:00:09 - 3:00:11] ▶
And I found the next cell spreadsheet that was actually
[3:00:11 - 3:00:13] ▶
called, or at least in the heading of the column,
[3:00:13 - 3:00:16] ▶
it said non-terrestrial officers.
[3:00:16 - 3:00:17] ▶
That's like my money card.
[3:00:17 - 3:00:18] ▶
That's just non-terrestrial officers.
[3:00:18 - 3:00:22] ▶
With ranks and names and then a separate sheet
[3:00:22 - 3:00:28] ▶
with tabs for material transfer between ships.
[3:00:28 - 3:00:32] ▶
And these were, I mean, I don't remember the names now.
[3:00:32 - 3:00:35] ▶
It's a long time ago.
[3:00:35 - 3:00:36] ▶
A lot of people give me a hard time for not
[3:00:36 - 3:00:37] ▶
remembering the names and stuff, but it was a long time ago.
[3:00:37 - 3:00:39] ▶
So I've always stuck in my head.
[3:00:41 - 3:00:43] ▶
Because in my mind in the UFO world,
[3:00:43 - 3:00:45] ▶
you have people like you doing very hard-headed nuts
[3:00:45 - 3:00:48] ▶
and bolts investigations.
[3:00:48 - 3:00:50] ▶
And then you have the KUKI like secret space program,
[3:00:50 - 3:00:53] ▶
like really weird stuff, like Operation Solar Warden
[3:00:53 - 3:00:57] ▶
20 and back, you go to somewhere.
[3:00:58 - 3:01:02] ▶
And I've always been super skeptical of that.
[3:01:02 - 3:01:04] ▶
But when I hear that this guy, Gary McKinnon,
[3:01:04 - 3:01:07] ▶
who's in the program, Hugh Interview,
[3:01:07 - 3:01:09] ▶
who just seems so normal and credible.
[3:01:09 - 3:01:11] ▶
Yeah, just like actually a cool guy.
[3:01:11 - 3:01:14] ▶
He's clearly made a big mistake.
[3:01:14 - 3:01:16] ▶
But outside of, as a visit big, issues.
[3:01:16 - 3:01:20] ▶
Oh God, that talking head song, what have I done?
[3:01:20 - 3:01:23] ▶
Yeah, everybody's one of my favorite lines of the movie.
[3:01:23 - 3:01:26] ▶
That's what that talking head song, oh God, what have I done?
[3:01:26 - 3:01:29] ▶
Yeah, that's right, he says that.
[3:01:29 - 3:01:30] ▶
Yeah, that's what he said.
[3:01:30 - 3:01:32] ▶
And he has a guitar in the back.
[3:01:33 - 3:01:34] ▶
He's kind of like a funny guy.
[3:01:34 - 3:01:35] ▶
So, you know, he just doesn't,
[3:01:35 - 3:01:37] ▶
you seem like in over his head, but not a liar at all.
[3:01:37 - 3:01:41] ▶
And so what is, how do you interpret that?
[3:01:42 - 3:01:45] ▶
You see a page of off planet?
[3:01:45 - 3:01:47] ▶
Extrotressual officer.
[3:01:47 - 3:01:48] ▶
Extrotressual officer?
[3:01:48 - 3:01:49] ▶
Extrotressual, off planet.
[3:01:49 - 3:01:51] ▶
Extrotressual, pretty sure.
[3:01:51 - 3:01:53] ▶
You could Google that, but I'm pretty sure it's extraterrestrial.
[3:01:54 - 3:01:56] ▶
Yeah, because I remember going crazy.
[3:01:56 - 3:01:58] ▶
Well, extraterrestrial, could that be,
[3:01:58 - 3:01:59] ▶
because your off planet, would that be?
[3:01:59 - 3:02:02] ▶
That'd be extraterrestrial officer.
[3:02:05 - 3:02:06] ▶
But the officer, now, an astronaut's not an officer.
[3:02:06 - 3:02:09] ▶
A list of extraterrestrial officers?
[3:02:09 - 3:02:10] ▶
It is an astronaut, you wouldn't say officer.
[3:02:10 - 3:02:12] ▶
Right, that's right.
[3:02:12 - 3:02:13] ▶
So, yeah, that was really weird.
[3:02:14 - 3:02:16] ▶
I mean, gosh, and that was like, how do we get that list?
[3:02:16 - 3:02:18] ▶
I know, God, can you imagine?
[3:02:18 - 3:02:21] ▶
What, like, what is that?
[3:02:21 - 3:02:22] ▶
The craft is very similar to what crashed in,
[3:02:23 - 3:02:25] ▶
in, God, that was 96.
[3:02:25 - 3:02:30] ▶
That's when the UFO crashed in Brazil.
[3:02:30 - 3:02:32] ▶
But it was a cylindrical shape,
[3:02:32 - 3:02:33] ▶
metallic object that.
[3:02:35 - 3:02:38] ▶
No rivets, no, yeah.
[3:02:38 - 3:02:39] ▶
And quite similar to what he described,
[3:02:39 - 3:02:42] ▶
except his had like a little, like, little,
[3:02:42 - 3:02:44] ▶
He drew it, yeah, yeah.
[3:02:45 - 3:02:46] ▶
It's basically a cigar with a thing here
[3:02:46 - 3:02:49] ▶
and a thing there on either end, but.
[3:02:49 - 3:02:50] ▶
Like, unless they were messing with him,
[3:02:51 - 3:02:55] ▶
like, you know, which they didn't.
[3:02:55 - 3:02:56] ▶
I mean, he's still a criminal, according to the US.
[3:02:56 - 3:02:58] ▶
He can't leave England and, what, England and Wales.
[3:02:58 - 3:03:02] ▶
He's restricted there for the rest of his life.
[3:03:04 - 3:03:06] ▶
So, yeah, that's just what's going on with that.
[3:03:06 - 3:03:10] ▶
That's, I mean, that's crazy.
[3:03:10 - 3:03:11] ▶
It's, I find that interesting because, at least to me,
[3:03:11 - 3:03:14] ▶
they wanted to lock him up for like 60 years.
[3:03:14 - 3:03:16] ▶
It's, I mean, that's a, but it's also, it's like.
[3:03:17 - 3:03:20] ▶
It's real jail time.
[3:03:20 - 3:03:21] ▶
That's real jail time.
[3:03:21 - 3:03:23] ▶
But when you look at these crashes that occur
[3:03:23 - 3:03:25] ▶
in your nuclear sites, I don't want to say,
[3:03:25 - 3:03:27] ▶
it's still, it should be mind blowing
[3:03:27 - 3:03:28] ▶
for the average person.
[3:03:28 - 3:03:29] ▶
I think for me or you, it's a little like, okay, yeah,
[3:03:29 - 3:03:31] ▶
well, it's expected.
[3:03:31 - 3:03:32] ▶
That's not quite as mind blowing.
[3:03:32 - 3:03:34] ▶
When you see this new fact, this, you know,
[3:03:34 - 3:03:36] ▶
this guy hacking into, you know, these.
[3:03:36 - 3:03:39] ▶
It makes you wonder.
[3:03:39 - 3:03:40] ▶
It makes you wonder.
[3:03:40 - 3:03:41] ▶
It makes you wonder and, you know, it's funny
[3:03:41 - 3:03:42] ▶
because I'd forgotten about that aspect of what he'd seen.
[3:03:42 - 3:03:46] ▶
I forgot about that.
[3:03:46 - 3:03:47] ▶
I always remember that he saw photographic evidence.
[3:03:47 - 3:03:50] ▶
And then he brought it up again.
[3:03:50 - 3:03:52] ▶
And while that, while I was thinking about that,
[3:03:52 - 3:03:54] ▶
it was just like exultressual officers.
[3:03:54 - 3:03:58] ▶
And then I interview the individual,
[3:03:59 - 3:04:02] ▶
US Air Force X in the film, and he talks about this alleged
[3:04:02 - 3:04:05] ▶
It nullies in 94 with a guy dressed in, you know,
[3:04:06 - 3:04:10] ▶
military outfit that clearly according to him
[3:04:10 - 3:04:15] ▶
did not appear to be human.
[3:04:15 - 3:04:16] ▶
I started thinking about the ex-stressual officers.
[3:04:17 - 3:04:20] ▶
I was like, is that what they were talking about?
[3:04:20 - 3:04:22] ▶
And there are other, like you mentioned earlier,
[3:04:23 - 3:04:25] ▶
about books that have been written from military,
[3:04:25 - 3:04:28] ▶
about encounters with these alleged encounters
[3:04:28 - 3:04:31] ▶
with these, the lady in the home in, like, I don't know, man.
[3:04:31 - 3:04:36] ▶
There's no smoke without fire, right?
[3:04:36 - 3:04:39] ▶
Well, you have to discount everything,
[3:04:39 - 3:04:41] ▶
not to believe any of it.
[3:04:41 - 3:04:43] ▶
Well, you have, I think you have to need
[3:04:43 - 3:04:45] ▶
gradations of probability.
[3:04:45 - 3:04:46] ▶
You can say, I think this is 20% probable,
[3:04:48 - 3:04:50] ▶
but worth cataloging in my mind
[3:04:50 - 3:04:52] ▶
and not forgetting about, and then looking for more
[3:04:52 - 3:04:55] ▶
corroboration, but admitting that it's low probability.
[3:04:55 - 3:04:58] ▶
And I think most people, they think in this sort of 2D,
[3:04:58 - 3:05:00] ▶
like, yes or no, binary, but you can,
[3:05:00 - 3:05:04] ▶
but, you know, hi, Meshaed, you know,
[3:05:04 - 3:05:06] ▶
who's ahead of the Israeli space force, who,
[3:05:06 - 3:05:09] ▶
oh, I remember that.
[3:05:09 - 3:05:09] ▶
Yeah, he writes, two years ago.
[3:05:09 - 3:05:11] ▶
Two years ago, he writes his biography.
[3:05:11 - 3:05:12] ▶
It was like, yeah, so it says,
[3:05:12 - 3:05:14] ▶
there's a galactic federation.
[3:05:14 - 3:05:17] ▶
He says that they're bases on Mars and, you know,
[3:05:17 - 3:05:19] ▶
that like the disc, right over the head of almost everybody,
[3:05:19 - 3:05:24] ▶
when you make those kind of statements,
[3:05:24 - 3:05:25] ▶
because not to say they're not true,
[3:05:25 - 3:05:27] ▶
or maybe they are true, I don't know.
[3:05:27 - 3:05:29] ▶
But it's like a given example of how it's almost too much
[3:05:29 - 3:05:32] ▶
to process, because when I did moment of contact,
[3:05:32 - 3:05:36] ▶
I just got back to Brazil, and I had this like news
[3:05:36 - 3:05:39] ▶
organization at my house with Leslie Kane interviewing me,
[3:05:39 - 3:05:41] ▶
and oh, we're so excited to talk about Brazil.
[3:05:41 - 3:05:43] ▶
I was like, yeah, now I'm not going to talk about that case,
[3:05:43 - 3:05:46] ▶
because they weren't ready for it, right?
[3:05:46 - 3:05:48] ▶
Live aliens, all the rest of it.
[3:05:48 - 3:05:49] ▶
Well, what was the example I was going to use,
[3:05:49 - 3:05:53] ▶
just lost my straight thought with,
[3:05:54 - 3:05:56] ▶
with, okay, I interviewed some hospice workers in the 90s
[3:05:59 - 3:06:04] ▶
that had that huge boomerang shaped craft that we talked
[3:06:05 - 3:06:09] ▶
about earlier in March 13th, 1997,
[3:06:09 - 3:06:13] ▶
including the governor of Arizona,
[3:06:13 - 3:06:14] ▶
five-semitant, all saw this massive,
[3:06:14 - 3:06:16] ▶
and there were other UFOs too,
[3:06:16 - 3:06:17] ▶
but one of the particular that was of interest was this boomerang
[3:06:17 - 3:06:20] ▶
shaped, apparently it was, some people say it was a mile across,
[3:06:20 - 3:06:23] ▶
some people say it was two miles across, it was colossal,
[3:06:23 - 3:06:25] ▶
and it flew over a vehicle home silently,
[3:06:25 - 3:06:27] ▶
and like made no noise, and they could see compartments
[3:06:27 - 3:06:30] ▶
in the mantle of me, it was massive.
[3:06:30 - 3:06:31] ▶
And I interviewed this group of hospice workers,
[3:06:31 - 3:06:33] ▶
I think there was like five or six of them all together,
[3:06:33 - 3:06:36] ▶
and they were sitting there having tea,
[3:06:36 - 3:06:38] ▶
it was late in the afternoon,
[3:06:38 - 3:06:39] ▶
and this thing went right over the top of them,
[3:06:39 - 3:06:41] ▶
and they said it took like five minutes to pass overhead.
[3:06:41 - 3:06:43] ▶
The reason why I'm telling you this is that
[3:06:45 - 3:06:46] ▶
after it passed overhead,
[3:06:46 - 3:06:49] ▶
they just went right back to their conversation,
[3:06:49 - 3:06:51] ▶
and I'm like, you didn't get up and call 911,
[3:06:52 - 3:06:56] ▶
get a camera, like chase it with your car, like nothing?
[3:06:56 - 3:06:59] ▶
They said no, I said, so you hang on,
[3:06:59 - 3:07:02] ▶
so all five of you stood here, you know,
[3:07:02 - 3:07:04] ▶
sat here looking up at this thing,
[3:07:04 - 3:07:07] ▶
as it passed overhead, and you say it took like five minutes,
[3:07:07 - 3:07:10] ▶
that's how big it was, and then you did nothing.
[3:07:10 - 3:07:13] ▶
And they said, yep, I don't know why, we just didn't do anything.
[3:07:13 - 3:07:17] ▶
We didn't call, we didn't yell from my husband,
[3:07:17 - 3:07:19] ▶
we didn't get in our car,
[3:07:19 - 3:07:21] ▶
because I was like, get in the car, chase it, you know,
[3:07:21 - 3:07:22] ▶
get camera, didn't do any of that.
[3:07:22 - 3:07:24] ▶
And I just thought, maybe it's just too much
[3:07:24 - 3:07:28] ▶
for people to process, like when they hear,
[3:07:28 - 3:07:31] ▶
like sometimes the mainstream media,
[3:07:31 - 3:07:32] ▶
it's not educated on this topic,
[3:07:32 - 3:07:33] ▶
and even it's hard for me to process things,
[3:07:33 - 3:07:35] ▶
like the crash of trebles stop, and people testifying,
[3:07:35 - 3:07:38] ▶
and they were like, I thought I'd see that,
[3:07:38 - 3:07:40] ▶
that day in my career.
[3:07:40 - 3:07:42] ▶
And so with this statement you're saying
[3:07:42 - 3:07:45] ▶
from this Israeli military official,
[3:07:45 - 3:07:47] ▶
was he intelligence or something?
[3:07:47 - 3:07:48] ▶
I know, I read about it.
[3:07:48 - 3:07:49] ▶
He was headed the, so Space Force, I believe,
[3:07:49 - 3:07:52] ▶
you have the NRO, which is like optical observation
[3:07:53 - 3:07:56] ▶
in Recon, and then in that sort of conversation's office,
[3:07:56 - 3:07:59] ▶
and then you have Space Force, which supports
[3:07:59 - 3:08:01] ▶
other, you know, Navy, military, but with comms.
[3:08:01 - 3:08:04] ▶
And so he's head of the Israel equivalent of Space Force,
[3:08:04 - 3:08:08] ▶
which is an extremely important position,
[3:08:08 - 3:08:11] ▶
to doing all this space color ahead of that.
[3:08:11 - 3:08:13] ▶
But my point is, is like that, you know,
[3:08:14 - 3:08:17] ▶
you got some of that level of credibility,
[3:08:17 - 3:08:19] ▶
of that level of government,
[3:08:19 - 3:08:21] ▶
of military insider, coming forward
[3:08:21 - 3:08:23] ▶
to making those statements.
[3:08:23 - 3:08:24] ▶
It's almost like the media doesn't know how to process it.
[3:08:24 - 3:08:27] ▶
I, with 30 year background of looking into these cases
[3:08:27 - 3:08:29] ▶
all around the world, I have a hard time processing, right?
[3:08:29 - 3:08:33] ▶
So it's like, I'm only going to imagine what the media is.
[3:08:33 - 3:08:35] ▶
Like, if you make those statements, and they're that significant,
[3:08:35 - 3:08:38] ▶
why wouldn't you put some of the resources
[3:08:38 - 3:08:40] ▶
that we put in for President's sexual peccadillos?
[3:08:40 - 3:08:42] ▶
Like, if you put one tenth of the resources
[3:08:42 - 3:08:44] ▶
into investigating some of these claims,
[3:08:44 - 3:08:46] ▶
it's good to the bottom of it.
[3:08:46 - 3:08:47] ▶
Super, what David came forward,
[3:08:49 - 3:08:51] ▶
like he put his credibility, he lost his position,
[3:08:51 - 3:08:53] ▶
like he, at great, at great personal sacrifice,
[3:08:53 - 3:08:57] ▶
The implications of what he's saying are so profound.
[3:08:58 - 3:09:02] ▶
How could you possibly not put some resources and follow up?
[3:09:03 - 3:09:06] ▶
I mean, news nations really, the only outfit out there
[3:09:06 - 3:09:09] ▶
really sticking their teeth into this topic, right?
[3:09:09 - 3:09:12] ▶
Like, well, I did a piece with them too.
[3:09:12 - 3:09:14] ▶
Yeah, but I kept thinking the whole time,
[3:09:14 - 3:09:16] ▶
why am I in this position?
[3:09:16 - 3:09:17] ▶
I mean, I become close with him, but I'm like, you know,
[3:09:17 - 3:09:20] ▶
You did a great piece, and my point is,
[3:09:21 - 3:09:23] ▶
why isn't Fox News CNN like-
[3:09:23 - 3:09:26] ▶
I'm totally, I kept thinking the whole time.
[3:09:26 - 3:09:28] ▶
I was like, if resources and contact-
[3:09:28 - 3:09:30] ▶
Well, the back story is they had an opportunity.
[3:09:30 - 3:09:33] ▶
The New York, I mean, Leslie Cain published the Indian article
[3:09:33 - 3:09:36] ▶
that prompted the whole thing.
[3:09:36 - 3:09:38] ▶
But she had to do it in the debrief
[3:09:38 - 3:09:40] ▶
because Julian Barnes-
[3:09:40 - 3:09:41] ▶
I know, I was right there when it was all going-
[3:09:41 - 3:09:44] ▶
He has a bias against the whole,
[3:09:44 - 3:09:45] ▶
I spoke to her at the-
[3:09:45 - 3:09:47] ▶
Julian Barnes has a bias.
[3:09:47 - 3:09:48] ▶
It was her biggest story in 2017, right?
[3:09:51 - 3:09:52] ▶
Wasn't the most popular stories they've ever published?
[3:09:52 - 3:09:54] ▶
When I sat next to her at the congressional hearing,
[3:09:54 - 3:09:57] ▶
and I was like, why didn't I go in the New York Times?
[3:09:57 - 3:09:59] ▶
She was like, Julian, he was like, maybe I can cut this if I'm throwing her
[3:09:59 - 3:10:02] ▶
under the bus by saying this, but like, she was like,
[3:10:02 - 3:10:05] ▶
It was gonna go to the Washington Post,
[3:10:06 - 3:10:08] ▶
and it was gonna go to political-
[3:10:08 - 3:10:09] ▶
They wouldn't go into political,
[3:10:10 - 3:10:11] ▶
but political needed another week, and I guess Grosch was really worried.
[3:10:11 - 3:10:15] ▶
I mean, it had to come out-
[3:10:15 - 3:10:17] ▶
Yeah, because his name was out already.
[3:10:17 - 3:10:18] ▶
And the news nationwide was gonna run, and they were gonna run that.
[3:10:18 - 3:10:22] ▶
Yeah, and the execution of how that all came about,
[3:10:22 - 3:10:24] ▶
and it wasn't anyone in particular's fault, you know?
[3:10:24 - 3:10:27] ▶
I guess the New York Times was looking into it for quite some time,
[3:10:27 - 3:10:29] ▶
and did they take a pass?
[3:10:29 - 3:10:31] ▶
Well, so Leslie Kane is a staff writer for The New York Times.
[3:10:32 - 3:10:36] ▶
I think her default was, I wanna do this on The New York Times,
[3:10:36 - 3:10:39] ▶
I think they were like, you can't do this here, which is insane.
[3:10:40 - 3:10:46] ▶
Because I guess they wanted to speak to one of the 40 witnesses.
[3:10:46 - 3:10:49] ▶
Fine, you should be able to speak to one of the 40 witnesses.
[3:10:49 - 3:10:51] ▶
However, not saying that him coming out is worthy
[3:10:51 - 3:10:56] ▶
of a story given Dave's credentials is showing that you have a complete bias.
[3:10:56 - 3:11:02] ▶
And it's a story when you have-
[3:11:05 - 3:11:06] ▶
Then you see the publications, like the stories had been published in The New York Times post.
[3:11:06 - 3:11:10] ▶
Yeah, for the most part-
[3:11:10 - 3:11:11] ▶
They were like, please.
[3:11:12 - 3:11:13] ▶
Well, they've been in April of, you know, 22 or something,
[3:11:13 - 3:11:17] ▶
they were saying that COVID was zoonotic origin.
[3:11:17 - 3:11:19] ▶
Like after everyone and their mother was saying,
[3:11:19 - 3:11:22] ▶
this is obviously came from a lab.
[3:11:22 - 3:11:24] ▶
They were sticking with the, you know, idiot party want.
[3:11:24 - 3:11:27] ▶
So like, yeah, I don't know.
[3:11:27 - 3:11:28] ▶
I think some of their contacts in the intel said,
[3:11:29 - 3:11:30] ▶
you wanna continue a nice relationship, of course.
[3:11:30 - 3:11:33] ▶
There's nothing to this story.
[3:11:33 - 3:11:34] ▶
No, that's exactly what I brought it.
[3:11:34 - 3:11:36] ▶
That's exactly what happened.
[3:11:36 - 3:11:37] ▶
I know that and I've also-
[3:11:38 - 3:11:40] ▶
I've helped since then with trying to get grouches op-ed out
[3:11:40 - 3:11:45] ▶
or whatever a little bit.
[3:11:45 - 3:11:46] ▶
And like, I see the pain he's going through.
[3:11:46 - 3:11:49] ▶
I worked so hard to portray him in the light that he deserves
[3:11:49 - 3:11:53] ▶
You know what I mean?
[3:11:55 - 3:11:56] ▶
Yeah, like I hope he sees that.
[3:11:56 - 3:11:58] ▶
Yeah, he was like awesome.
[3:12:00 - 3:12:01] ▶
Oh, I'm really glad.
[3:12:01 - 3:12:02] ▶
Yeah, because, you know, I don't blame him.
[3:12:02 - 3:12:05] ▶
I mean, he was a bit skittish and he was very selective
[3:12:05 - 3:12:08] ▶
with a handful of interviews that he gave.
[3:12:08 - 3:12:09] ▶
You being one of them and I talked to somebody there
[3:12:09 - 3:12:13] ▶
and even Leslie tried to get him for an upcoming production.
[3:12:13 - 3:12:16] ▶
He's like, you know, I'm just not really doing it anymore.
[3:12:16 - 3:12:18] ▶
I don't blame him, you know, I don't blame him.
[3:12:19 - 3:12:21] ▶
I really tried to do his story, just as, and not for any other reason
[3:12:22 - 3:12:27] ▶
And I think he merits that level of coverage.
[3:12:30 - 3:12:34] ▶
James, this has been an honor, man.
[3:12:37 - 3:12:38] ▶
I really appreciate it.
[3:12:40 - 3:12:41] ▶
It's been a long time coming.
[3:12:41 - 3:12:42] ▶
Yeah, thank you for coming.
[3:12:42 - 3:12:43] ▶