116 segments
Let me ask you this, George. When you are looking at the state of play right now,
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do you believe we've made progress? And what's your biggest question going forward?
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Well, we have made progress since that New York Times story 2017. Congress has shown
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it's interested in the topic after being hands off for more than 50 years. Major media at least
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dabbled in it for a while now have pulled back. The academic community has come forward. Some
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people have stepped forward bravely and said, we want to look into this. So, yeah, there's progress
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being made. But, you know, the keepers of the secrets, the folks who have manipulated this
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topic for almost 80 years now, are better at their job, I would dare say, than you and I and
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Jeremy are at ours. They have a lot of tools at their disposal. We've seen some of it come out
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in the last couple of days in national media accounts that muddy the waters, that confuse the
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public. They've admitted what we've all known for a long time, that they've lied to the American
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public, that they've lied to Congress. Now we know they've lied to their own military personnel,
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made up stories, propaganda. It's disgraceful. But now a lot of it is out in the open. So I would
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call that progress. Jeremy, I was crestfallen when the Trump administration came in and they told us,
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we're going to tell you what Biden wouldn't tell you. And then they gave us the same answer
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about what was in the air over the military bases and other places on the East Coast and elsewhere.
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How do you explain that?
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I don't even attempt to explain that. I just know that the true transparency on this topic is going
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to obviously come through good journalism. And that's what George and I are focused on,
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is bringing forward whistleblowers like Matthew Brown and the Immaculate Constellation information,
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as well as just bringing forward, if we're lucky enough, military film footage of UAP.
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This is what we've been doing. We believe this to be the path forward. I'm not going to rely on
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anybody else to help us move this ball forward. I just think the public needs to fight for it.
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George, when you look at this issue as a function of transparency, you say the people who are the
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keepers of the secrets. These days they use the word deep state. In these years of researching this,
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what is your best reckoning of who we're up against and what they're about?
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It's a combination of Department of Defense folks, intelligence agencies, defense contractors.
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I think it's probably a small group of the people that really know what's going on.
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And even they probably don't know the big picture. You know, Jeremy and I have been pretty far up the
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food chain over the years, me even longer than him. And I have never met anyone who really knows
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the true story. I've heard I've run into a lot of people who whose job it is to confuse the public,
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to muddy the waters, to slip out propaganda, as we've seen over the past couple of days and over
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many years. You know, I don't know what the big answers are. Like you, Chris, I'm not expecting
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to meet aliens. I don't believe in aliens. I was attracted to this story because of the paper trail
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documents, memos, reports that were shared within the Department of Defense and CIA and other agencies
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before the Freedom of Information Act became the law. And in those reports, it shows they were saying,
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hey, this is real. It's not imaginary. It's not fictitious. It's real. It's not us. It's from
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somewhere else. We need to figure it out because there are national security issues involved.
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1953, the Robertson panel gets together for CIA. They spend six hours over two days looking at
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UFO evidence and they decide UFOs are not a threat to national security. But the reporting of UFOs is a
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threat. And we need to strip it of its aura of mystery. We need to debunk it. We need to use
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ridicule. And that's pretty much been the policy of the U.S. government ever since. And it ticks me
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off. It's what got me hooked on the topic. They're telling the public one thing. They're saying
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something behind closed doors to themselves that is far different. And it makes me angry.
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And, Jeremy, this was part of our bond, right, is that when I first came to News Nation and I started
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reporting on this, media came after me about it. They'd mock me. They'd say, oh, man, he's doing anything he can.
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And I think I'm not looking to get ratings. And as George just said, I'm not looking to meet little
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green men. I mean, I'm open to it. The arrogance of thinking that this is the only planet in a
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universe that is constantly expanding. You know, I think there's an arrogance in that to believe
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we're the only ones that figured out carbon based life. But let's put that to the side.
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They think they don't have to tell us what they know. And to me, it's a metaphor for what we've seen
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in so much of government in recent years. It's way more sinister than that. It's not just that they
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don't think that they need to tell the truth. They're intentionally muddying the waters with
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misinformation and disinformation. If you looked at the ridiculous and sinister Wall Street Journal
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report, then we're supposed to believe that we didn't need a Manhattan Project to win the war.
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We didn't need the Apollo mission to put us into space because this is all some sort of government
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cover-up. The new conspiracy, Chris, is that UFOs are not real. That's the new conspiracy,
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the baseless conspiracy. George, what do we need to know?
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Well, one thing we know is they're never going to give this up. I mean, it's pretty clear.
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These recent reports that have been issued by Arrow and now the repeated media statements by the
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former Arrow staffers, there's nothing to it. There's no information. There's no proof. It's
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stuff that we made up. It's disinformation that we spread out there. We created the story about Area 51.
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We created the story about nukes being disabled. That's all us. All the technology that people have
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been seeing in the skies around the world on every culture, every continent throughout human history,
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that's us. It's preposterous. It's ridiculous. There's no way we could ever accept it. But Arrow
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has made it clear they're not going to give this up. They're not even giving it up to Congress. I admire
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the people who've been pushing the ball down the field in Congress, but they've been manipulated on this
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topic as well. There's always something more pressing for members of Congress, for the public.
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You know, a job, your mortgage payment, your family, bills for Congress. There's Ukraine. There's Gaza.
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There's the stuff in L.A. that's unfolding right now. Always something more pressing than UFOs.
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So the people who tell these lies get away with it.
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I have the same question for both of you. And by the way, you know, everybody in common parlance now
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uses Area 51. That was George Knapp that brought that into the recognition of the rest of us.
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George, if you were to meet the man, okay, in quotes, and the person who knows,
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what would be the three things that you would want answers to?
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I'd like to know ultimately where they're from and what their intentions are regarding us. Are they
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interested in us? Are they where they're from? Are they interested in us or the planet more than us?
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Number two is, why the secrecy? I mean, I could see it in 1947. We just come out of World War II.
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The world's a mess. Do you need to share that with the public and tell them there's another
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intelligence more advanced than us? Why the secrecy now, though? You know, number three,
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if the technology is being tested in secret in some hangar somewhere, what do we need to get it done?
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Can we ever master it? And are the national security implications legit? Because
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there is a race for this technology. Us, the Russians, the Chinese, maybe the Israelis.
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How do we ever separate the UFO technology from national security concerns that would allow some
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president to step up to a microphone and say, we've been lying to you. Here's the truth.
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What can you add to that, Jay?
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I just would have one question. You know, what made you look beyond your orders and not follow
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your oath? Like, what made you do this, keep this from the American public? What is so scary to you
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that you are holding this back from the American public and hurting people's lives? That's what I
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really want to know. It's more of a human question about the secrecy of UFOs. I'm done with it.
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The American public's done with it. And I hope we crack this egg as soon as possible.
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What do you think the watershed moment will be, George? What do you think has to happen
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It's got to be a whistleblower who comes forward with a piece of something or some video evidence,
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something irrefutable. Or it has to be them, whoever they are, wherever they're from. I mean,
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they're the real architects of the secrecy. Wherever they're from, they've been here a long time.
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They could make themselves known in some irrefutable kind of a demonstration. They haven't done it. We
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get little glimpses, little bits and pieces, a look here, a look there. But they started the
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secrecy, and our government is happy to exploit it. For me, Jay, you know what I think it's going to be?
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Advantage. One of these two poison parties is going to realize there's something in this issue for them
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versus the other one, and they'll go all in down that road. That is my suspicion of why
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it didn't change from Biden to Trump. It didn't kill the Democrats for Trump to come out with whatever
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that they were going to come out with. The same way that it wouldn't have killed Trump for Biden to
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expose whatever it is. And these cats are all about advantage, never about advancement of anything
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Look, if we still have freedom of journalism, then we're going to push as hard as we can
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to reveal to people the best evidence that we have. That's our mission. That's what we're going
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to do. We're going to practice journalism.
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Jeremy, I love you. Thank you for being here. You're always welcome. I appreciate the work that
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you're doing. George Knapp, I got to tell you, I'm so happy that I finally got a chance to speak to you,
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and I respect that you do the hardest part of the job that I love so well, which is you find a way
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to tell what people don't want told. And thank you for that. Thank you for your example, and thank you
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for your continued efforts. If I can help you guys in any way, at any time, I'm going to call away.
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