2,586 segments
Gary and Mary Ruth, we've been working on this story for a long time,
[0:00:00 - 0:00:03] ▶
and we'll tell you right up front that it's going to be hard to swallow at first.
[0:00:03 - 0:00:06] ▶
In 1989, a soft-spoken scientist in Nevada went on local television
[0:00:07 - 0:00:13] ▶
and said something that would baffle the world for the next three decades.
[0:00:13 - 0:00:18] ▶
He said that he had worked at a secret government facility called S4,
[0:00:20 - 0:00:24] ▶
just south of Area 51 in the Nevada desert,
[0:00:24 - 0:00:27] ▶
where his job, his actual job, was to reverse-engineer the propulsion system of a craft,
[0:00:27 - 0:00:35] ▶
a craft that was not made by human hands.
[0:00:35 - 0:00:38] ▶
A flying saucer, 53 feet in diameter, no seams, rivets, panels, buttons, wiring, or controls.
[0:00:38 - 0:00:45] ▶
Ladies and gentlemen, today's guest is the white whale of American alchemy guests,
[0:00:48 - 0:00:54] ▶
the enigmatic and ever-elusive Bob Lazar.
[0:00:54 - 0:00:57] ▶
That Lazar dude freaked me to f*** out, man.
[0:01:04 - 0:01:05] ▶
Bob is basically a walking paradox, a human head spinner.
[0:01:08 - 0:01:11] ▶
He almost feels like an optical illusion of a person.
[0:01:12 - 0:01:15] ▶
Back then, Area 51 meant nothing.
[0:01:15 - 0:01:17] ▶
We've now heard a former director of national intelligence,
[0:01:17 - 0:01:22] ▶
who oversaw all American intelligence agencies,
[0:01:22 - 0:01:26] ▶
openly discuss a UFO tracking program housed at Area 51 specifically.
[0:01:26 - 0:01:31] ▶
We've also seen past directors of the CIA, congressmen and women,
[0:01:31 - 0:01:36] ▶
and whistleblowers across agencies endorsing the existence of a decades-long,
[0:01:36 - 0:01:42] ▶
multi-generational UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering program.
[0:01:42 - 0:01:47] ▶
But Bob is an anomaly.
[0:01:49 - 0:01:51] ▶
He's still the only person to have gone public claiming he worked directly on a craft of non-human origin.
[0:01:53 - 0:02:00] ▶
We've speculated about his story for years.
[0:02:00 - 0:02:03] ▶
Today, we get to talk to him directly.
[0:02:03 - 0:02:05] ▶
They really wanted to see if they could affect the flow of time.
[0:02:06 - 0:02:10] ▶
Did they have a stated purpose for...
[0:02:10 - 0:02:13] ▶
In this interview, we get to ask him our most skeptical questions
[0:02:16 - 0:02:20] ▶
about his background, his education, his past,
[0:02:20 - 0:02:24] ▶
how he knows what he knows, and why he hasn't been forced into silence.
[0:02:24 - 0:02:29] ▶
John Lear was super into UFOs before you got the job.
[0:02:29 - 0:02:34] ▶
Why do you think it didn't come up in a background check?
[0:02:34 - 0:02:36] ▶
There are a lot of people out there who say you faked your educational credentials.
[0:02:37 - 0:02:40] ▶
Did you ever wonder why they didn't view you as a liability?
[0:02:40 - 0:02:45] ▶
But we also ask our most awe-inspiring questions.
[0:02:45 - 0:02:48] ▶
We learn new details about where the craft he worked on was actually retrieved.
[0:02:49 - 0:02:54] ▶
We discuss the beings that may have occupied it,
[0:02:54 - 0:02:57] ▶
where they come from, and what they want with humanity.
[0:02:57 - 0:03:00] ▶
We even learn about Bob's current home laboratory experiments.
[0:03:01 - 0:03:05] ▶
He's still investigating the gravity-altering force he encountered
[0:03:05 - 0:03:09] ▶
while working on a flying saucer in the 80s.
[0:03:09 - 0:03:12] ▶
Bob is currently working on exotic UFO science in his personal lab.
[0:03:14 - 0:03:19] ▶
How did the reactor work?
[0:03:19 - 0:03:21] ▶
Through x-rays, we were able to determine that there's a hollow tube.
[0:03:22 - 0:03:26] ▶
But this interview gets even crazier than that.
[0:03:28 - 0:03:30] ▶
I surprise Bob with a scientist at NASA who's doing his own experiments on antigravity.
[0:03:31 - 0:03:37] ▶
What kind of voltage are you using?
[0:03:37 - 0:03:38] ▶
Right now, about 400 volts.
[0:03:39 - 0:03:40] ▶
That's unbelievable.
[0:03:40 - 0:03:41] ▶
I also had the honor of showing Bob legendary, never-before-seen footage of a UFO at Area 51.
[0:03:41 - 0:03:49] ▶
People have been trying to get their hands on this specific footage for years.
[0:03:51 - 0:03:56] ▶
I'm going to the beginning.
[0:03:58 - 0:03:58] ▶
This interview spans multiple days with both Bob and filmmaker Luigi Venditelli,
[0:04:02 - 0:04:08] ▶
the maker of S4, the Bob Lazar story.
[0:04:09 - 0:04:12] ▶
Luigi has spent four years working closely with Bob to depict exactly what he saw and worked on at S4
[0:04:12 - 0:04:20] ▶
in vivid, hyper-realistic detail.
[0:04:20 - 0:04:22] ▶
We really, really paid attention to what Bob said throughout the entire time.
[0:04:22 - 0:04:29] ▶
So we didn't invent anything.
[0:04:29 - 0:04:31] ▶
Without further ado, please welcome this week's American alchemist, the man who helped reverse
[0:04:32 - 0:04:38] ▶
engineer a UFO, went public, and lived to tell the tale.
[0:04:38 - 0:04:42] ▶
The original UFO whistleblower, Bob Lazar.
[0:04:42 - 0:04:46] ▶
Regliction sequence 5.
[0:04:47 - 0:04:49] ▶
How is this possible?
[0:04:50 - 0:04:52] ▶
Nothing too unusual about that.
[0:04:53 - 0:04:55] ▶
The existence cannot longer be denied.
[0:04:56 - 0:05:00] ▶
We're living through the biggest transformation of the financial system in a hundred years.
[0:05:02 - 0:05:13] ▶
And most people are still using the same platforms their parents used.
[0:05:14 - 0:05:17] ▶
I started to investigate the financial space in 2012 because I genuinely believed that the fiat dollar
[0:05:17 - 0:05:24] ▶
system was broken, not slightly broken, structurally, fundamentally broken.
[0:05:24 - 0:05:29] ▶
It's what you might call a long con, or perhaps a Ponzi scheme.
[0:05:30 - 0:05:33] ▶
I started to believe that a transparent, decentralized alternative wasn't just possible,
[0:05:34 - 0:05:39] ▶
I've spent 13 years researching it, living it, talking to the most serious minds building
[0:05:40 - 0:05:46] ▶
Kraken is the platform I kept coming back to with my own money.
[0:05:46 - 0:05:50] ▶
So when we finally decided to bring on our first ever financial sponsor in four years of
[0:05:50 - 0:05:55] ▶
doing this show, we went to them.
[0:05:55 - 0:05:57] ▶
Because I've used the product and I already believed in what they're building.
[0:05:57 - 0:06:00] ▶
Every other investing platform is essentially the old system with a better app on top.
[0:06:00 - 0:06:06] ▶
Kraken is different at a foundational level.
[0:06:06 - 0:06:08] ▶
They've been operating since 2011 through every market crash, shout out Mt.
[0:06:08 - 0:06:13] ▶
Gox, every industry collapse, every moment other platforms failed their users.
[0:06:13 - 0:06:18] ▶
And when everything went catastrophically wrong in this industry, the people responsible for
[0:06:19 - 0:06:23] ▶
making customers whole didn't go to the biggest names in finance.
[0:06:23 - 0:06:27] ▶
They came to Kraken.
[0:06:27 - 0:06:28] ▶
On top of that, they publicly prove, not promise, prove that every dollar you deposit is fully
[0:06:29 - 0:06:35] ▶
Anyone in the world can verify it at any time.
[0:06:36 - 0:06:39] ▶
No fine print, no blind faith, just proof.
[0:06:40 - 0:06:42] ▶
You can buy stocks and crypto in one place, earn better rewards than any investment account
[0:06:43 - 0:06:48] ▶
you've ever had, and send money anywhere in the world without those annoying fees your
[0:06:48 - 0:06:53] ▶
bank charges you for the exact same thing.
[0:06:53 - 0:06:56] ▶
Again, I've never taken on a financial platform as a sponsor in four years of this show.
[0:06:56 - 0:07:01] ▶
Having full control over your money shouldn't be about belief.
[0:07:01 - 0:07:05] ▶
It's the whole point.
[0:07:05 - 0:07:06] ▶
So go to kraken.com slash AA to learn more and get $25 in Bitcoin.
[0:07:07 - 0:07:13] ▶
Again, that's kraken.com slash AA double A.
[0:07:13 - 0:07:17] ▶
Owning the power of your money isn't just a belief.
[0:07:18 - 0:07:21] ▶
It's the whole point.
[0:07:21 - 0:07:22] ▶
One of the main reasons I'm able to go multiple hours on these podcasts while staying mentally
[0:07:22 - 0:07:28] ▶
sharp is because of this little drink.
[0:07:28 - 0:07:31] ▶
It's a product I started using years ago, and it's called Ketone IQ.
[0:07:31 - 0:07:36] ▶
I know the founders Jeff and Michael personally, and I was thrilled when they agreed to sponsor
[0:07:36 - 0:07:41] ▶
the show because it's one of the few products I trust to give me clean, sustainable energy.
[0:07:41 - 0:07:47] ▶
I've been taking a little shot of this thing during every long recording, and it lights my
[0:07:47 - 0:07:52] ▶
As you can see, Bob even took a shot during this one.
[0:07:53 - 0:07:56] ▶
The reason I keep coming back to these products is because I don't really do coffee.
[0:07:56 - 0:08:00] ▶
Coffee gives me a spike of energy, and then at some point, I get jittery and I crash.
[0:08:01 - 0:08:06] ▶
Ketone IQ is fundamentally different.
[0:08:06 - 0:08:08] ▶
It gives you clean, steady mental clarity with no crash and no jitters.
[0:08:08 - 0:08:13] ▶
Here's the science behind why it actually works.
[0:08:14 - 0:08:17] ▶
When you're running on glucose or sugar, as your brain is most of the time, it's essentially
[0:08:17 - 0:08:22] ▶
Your brain could be like a Ferrari, but you're feeding it 87-octane fuel all the time.
[0:08:23 - 0:08:28] ▶
Ketones are what your brain actually prefers when it's operating at its best.
[0:08:29 - 0:08:33] ▶
Normally, you'd have to fast for days in order for your body to switch from glucose to ketones.
[0:08:34 - 0:08:39] ▶
This little shot of Ketone IQ gives you the ketones directly, so your brain runs the way
[0:08:39 - 0:08:46] ▶
it's supposed to, without any spikes or crashes.
[0:08:46 - 0:08:49] ▶
It was originally developed through a multi-million dollar Department of Defense contract for elite
[0:08:49 - 0:08:55] ▶
cognitive performance under stress.
[0:08:55 - 0:08:57] ▶
Bob Lazar probably could have used that at S4.
[0:08:57 - 0:09:00] ▶
So the same technology that's used by soldiers in high-demand environments is now available
[0:09:00 - 0:09:06] ▶
to anyone in the form of this little drink.
[0:09:06 - 0:09:08] ▶
So visit ketone.com slash alchemy for 30% off your subscription order, plus receive a
[0:09:08 - 0:09:16] ▶
free gift with your second shipment.
[0:09:16 - 0:09:18] ▶
That's ketone.com slash alchemy for a whole 30% off.
[0:09:19 - 0:09:23] ▶
Or find Ketone IQ at Target stores nationwide and get your first shot free.
[0:09:23 - 0:09:29] ▶
Bob Lazar, I don't even know what to say.
[0:09:29 - 0:09:41] ▶
This is a make-a-wish day for me.
[0:09:41 - 0:09:43] ▶
This is an absolute honor.
[0:09:43 - 0:09:45] ▶
I'm so grateful for you being here.
[0:09:45 - 0:09:47] ▶
I have so many questions for you because there are a lot of people who say they've seen things
[0:09:47 - 0:09:52] ▶
in the sky or they've had ephemeral experiences, sometimes even with beings.
[0:09:52 - 0:09:57] ▶
There are very few people who have consistently held to the exact same story over the last
[0:09:57 - 0:10:04] ▶
almost four decades now.
[0:10:04 - 0:10:06] ▶
And it involves working on a craft and essentially reverse engineering or parallel process engineering
[0:10:07 - 0:10:14] ▶
what is a craft of non-human origin, an exotic craft.
[0:10:14 - 0:10:19] ▶
And so you are really one of one.
[0:10:20 - 0:10:22] ▶
And I can't wait to dive in.
[0:10:22 - 0:10:24] ▶
And I just want to thank, before we start, Luigi Vendatelli, who is the amazing creator
[0:10:24 - 0:10:29] ▶
of this movie that you are in.
[0:10:29 - 0:10:31] ▶
Physical evidence now exists, which proves that there is life elsewhere.
[0:10:33 - 0:10:36] ▶
And at least one form of that life has been here.
[0:10:37 - 0:10:39] ▶
I want to start with your childhood.
[0:10:39 - 0:10:43] ▶
And what was little Bob Lazar like?
[0:10:44 - 0:10:47] ▶
I guess he was like a little scientist.
[0:10:48 - 0:10:49] ▶
I mean, I wasn't into sports at all.
[0:10:50 - 0:10:52] ▶
Instead of playing with toys, I take apart clocks and things like that that my parents
[0:10:56 - 0:11:00] ▶
had and, you know, put them back together.
[0:11:00 - 0:11:03] ▶
I was just very inquisitive.
[0:11:03 - 0:11:05] ▶
Were you a rule breaker at all?
[0:11:05 - 0:11:07] ▶
Yeah, for the most part.
[0:11:07 - 0:11:08] ▶
I really had a problem with authority.
[0:11:09 - 0:11:10] ▶
So I really didn't matter if it was my parents or teachers, whatever, telling me what to do.
[0:11:11 - 0:11:16] ▶
I said, I just don't recognize your authority to tell me that I can't do what I'm doing.
[0:11:16 - 0:11:22] ▶
And yeah, that just seems to be part of my DNA.
[0:11:22 - 0:11:27] ▶
Yeah, it seems to be a running theme in your life.
[0:11:27 - 0:11:29] ▶
So authority felt sort of arbitrary to you.
[0:11:29 - 0:11:31] ▶
It's like, why are you in a position to have any power?
[0:11:31 - 0:11:34] ▶
Right, right, right.
[0:11:34 - 0:11:35] ▶
You're not even, you really don't even understand what I'm up to.
[0:11:35 - 0:11:38] ▶
And, you know, you're already trying to put the kibosh on it here.
[0:11:38 - 0:11:41] ▶
So, um, no, go away and leave me alone.
[0:11:41 - 0:11:44] ▶
Did you have any interest in UFOs, aliens, anything like that as a kid?
[0:11:45 - 0:11:50] ▶
I thought that was all silly.
[0:11:51 - 0:11:52] ▶
No, I was always into science and science fiction when I was a little kid.
[0:11:53 - 0:11:57] ▶
I watched, I think, like five and six.
[0:11:57 - 0:12:00] ▶
I watched the, uh, oh, the super marionation series like, uh, Fireball XL5 and Thunderbirds.
[0:12:00 - 0:12:09] ▶
And, you know, they were all, uh, like marionette shows, but they're all space and cool and rockets.
[0:12:09 - 0:12:15] ▶
And, you know, that, oh, this is all great.
[0:12:15 - 0:12:17] ▶
You know, that's what.
[0:12:18 - 0:12:19] ▶
And then later on, you know, Star Trek, science fiction, because it always looked like that.
[0:12:19 - 0:12:25] ▶
It was just a prediction of the future to me.
[0:12:25 - 0:12:27] ▶
It didn't look like it was, you know, stuff that was never going to come true.
[0:12:28 - 0:12:32] ▶
It just looked like eventually the stuff's going to happen.
[0:12:32 - 0:12:35] ▶
And for the most part, science fiction turns into science given enough time.
[0:12:35 - 0:12:39] ▶
It becomes science fact.
[0:12:39 - 0:12:40] ▶
Were there any inspiration sci-fi wise that, uh, you felt had like a real impact on you as far as your, you know, what you were interested in as a kid?
[0:12:41 - 0:12:52] ▶
Uh, you know, everybody my age, a boomer that's an engineer, doctor, scientist, whatever.
[0:12:52 - 0:12:58] ▶
They'll always point back to Star Trek and always give that a nod because that was, so that was probably the biggest thing back there in the sixties and seventies.
[0:12:58 - 0:13:07] ▶
Yup. And so where'd you grow up?
[0:13:07 - 0:13:09] ▶
Well, I was born in Florida, but, uh, most of my growing up, you know, I was cognizant of what was going on. It was Long Island.
[0:13:10 - 0:13:18] ▶
Interesting. You ended up at, at Pierce. Is that right? Or what was the, what was the kind of progression from?
[0:13:19 - 0:13:26] ▶
I just moved around.
[0:13:26 - 0:13:27] ▶
You know, it depends where I was at the time when I went to California and, you know, on the East coast. So.
[0:13:28 - 0:13:34] ▶
It was, it was just location dependent. You know, as like I mentioned the other day, I moved so much.
[0:13:35 - 0:13:41] ▶
Um, yeah, it was almost like a military family.
[0:13:42 - 0:13:45] ▶
Yeah. Was it, was it cause your dad had jobs that he was switching around or what was going on?
[0:13:45 - 0:13:50] ▶
You know, I really don't know what it was, but, um, we just, we were just always moving.
[0:13:50 - 0:13:57] ▶
And, you know, always have to make new friends and, and whatnot, but, uh, I don't know.
[0:13:57 - 0:14:05] ▶
It was just the way it was.
[0:14:05 - 0:14:06] ▶
My father always did some weird things that strange things up his sleeve.
[0:14:06 - 0:14:11] ▶
So I don't know what's going on.
[0:14:11 - 0:14:12] ▶
I think there was some potentially shady stuff going on in the, the background.
[0:14:13 - 0:14:18] ▶
What did he do professionally, just like surface level?
[0:14:19 - 0:14:23] ▶
Um, he had, I know he had some connection to the mob at some point.
[0:14:24 - 0:14:28] ▶
I mean, he had like a, a food business, a wholesale food business, you know, that distributed food to grocery stores, you know, all over the place.
[0:14:29 - 0:14:38] ▶
But there was, and he had big connection to race horses.
[0:14:38 - 0:14:42] ▶
I mean, I remember when I was a little kid of the, uh, what do they call it?
[0:14:43 - 0:14:50] ▶
Harness racing, you know, where they sit in a little sulky behind the horse, little two wheeled contraption.
[0:14:50 - 0:14:56] ▶
Um, you know, I remember those guys, um, the jockeys, riders, whatever you want to call them.
[0:14:57 - 0:15:05] ▶
But I remember, you know, playing in the living room and hearing those guys deciding who's going to win the race and things of that sort.
[0:15:05 - 0:15:12] ▶
So, I mean, I, I knew that there were some shady things going on.
[0:15:12 - 0:15:18] ▶
And yeah, whenever you have race horses and tracks, there's often some money laundering.
[0:15:19 - 0:15:23] ▶
Yeah, especially back down in the, you know, early seventies and stuff.
[0:15:23 - 0:15:27] ▶
It couldn't, it couldn't be more corrupt.
[0:15:27 - 0:15:29] ▶
And so he was involved in that, but maybe there was some other stuff kind of going on in the, in the background.
[0:15:32 - 0:15:37] ▶
And nothing where people are hurt or anything like that, you know, not, not mob stuff, but, uh, yeah, yeah.
[0:15:37 - 0:15:44] ▶
But, you know, I mean, just some questionable things.
[0:15:44 - 0:15:48] ▶
So, I mean, we did, we did move around a lot, but, um, spent most of the time either in.
[0:15:50 - 0:15:56] ▶
Well, it really depends what year, you know, I was somewhere.
[0:15:56 - 0:16:02] ▶
And were, were you into nuclear science as a kid as well, or just kind of like science
[0:16:02 - 0:16:07] ▶
I mean, my friends were, uh, I had a friend whose, uh, dad was a chemistry professor.
[0:16:08 - 0:16:15] ▶
So, you know, we'd go and hang out with him and bring home chemicals and, you know, play
[0:16:15 - 0:16:21] ▶
But it was, yeah, from as young as I could possibly be, it was always tinkering around
[0:16:21 - 0:16:27] ▶
with something science related.
[0:16:27 - 0:16:29] ▶
So at school, what was that like?
[0:16:29 - 0:16:32] ▶
You're this rebellious kid.
[0:16:32 - 0:16:33] ▶
You're into science.
[0:16:33 - 0:16:34] ▶
Did you hate school?
[0:16:35 - 0:16:36] ▶
I hate school because it's just interfering with my time.
[0:16:37 - 0:16:39] ▶
I want to get home and get back to tinkering with my stuff.
[0:16:39 - 0:16:42] ▶
You know, I don't, you know, you, you couldn't bore me any more than I was.
[0:16:42 - 0:16:47] ▶
I didn't want to go to music class.
[0:16:47 - 0:16:48] ▶
I don't care what they're doing here.
[0:16:48 - 0:16:50] ▶
And on, uh, you know, everything as social studies, I don't care who won what war.
[0:16:50 - 0:16:54] ▶
Just let me go home.
[0:16:54 - 0:16:56] ▶
You know, I've got other things I'd rather learn, but, you know, the classes that I was
[0:16:56 - 0:17:01] ▶
in, um, that matched my interest.
[0:17:01 - 0:17:04] ▶
I did well with, but everything else was a waste of my time.
[0:17:04 - 0:17:08] ▶
What were you tinkering with at home?
[0:17:08 - 0:17:10] ▶
Probably at that time, probably electronics and chemistry.
[0:17:11 - 0:17:14] ▶
And then how, how'd you get the job at Los Alamos?
[0:17:15 - 0:17:17] ▶
At the time I was working at, uh, Fairchild Electronics in, in Simi Valley, California.
[0:17:18 - 0:17:24] ▶
And I was just tired and burnt out of that.
[0:17:25 - 0:17:29] ▶
And, uh, just sent a resume to Los Alamos.
[0:17:30 - 0:17:33] ▶
But really laid heavily on the stuff, not my work history, things that I did aside from
[0:17:33 - 0:17:41] ▶
I took my wife's little Honda, built a jet engine from scratch and put it in there.
[0:17:42 - 0:17:48] ▶
Then, in fact, that was one of the things I, you know, sent in a resume to him.
[0:17:48 - 0:17:53] ▶
Oh, by the way, I built this car.
[0:17:54 - 0:17:55] ▶
And, uh, yeah, when I moved there, the local paper put that on the front page because they
[0:17:56 - 0:18:03] ▶
thought that was really cool.
[0:18:03 - 0:18:04] ▶
And that's why most people remember me at that time because I drove it to work at Los Alamos.
[0:18:04 - 0:18:10] ▶
And in fact, they yelled at me for, you can't run the jet coming into the lab because it
[0:18:11 - 0:18:16] ▶
scares the shit out of everybody.
[0:18:16 - 0:18:17] ▶
How fast would the car go?
[0:18:17 - 0:18:19] ▶
On that car is super dangerous.
[0:18:21 - 0:18:23] ▶
I would never do that.
[0:18:23 - 0:18:24] ▶
So you're putting like a Bugatti engine on a Honda Civic and you're like.
[0:18:25 - 0:18:29] ▶
It's silly, but you're stupider when you're in your twenties.
[0:18:33 - 0:18:36] ▶
Well, what was your top speed?
[0:18:36 - 0:18:37] ▶
El Mirage Dry Lake in California.
[0:18:42 - 0:18:43] ▶
Maybe, but that's how fast the car went.
[0:18:45 - 0:18:49] ▶
But the Honda Civic is not set up for the jet engine that you put on it.
[0:18:49 - 0:18:55] ▶
Well, it was after I put it in there.
[0:18:55 - 0:18:58] ▶
Oh, so you helped with the suspension.
[0:18:58 - 0:19:00] ▶
That stuff you improved.
[0:19:01 - 0:19:02] ▶
That's impressive, man.
[0:19:03 - 0:19:04] ▶
Well, while working at Los Alamos National Lab in 1982, the local newspaper did a front
[0:19:06 - 0:19:12] ▶
page story on a jet car I had built.
[0:19:12 - 0:19:14] ▶
Coincidentally, Dr. Edward Teller was giving a speech at Los Alamos that same day.
[0:19:14 - 0:19:19] ▶
So Edward Teller for the audience was the creator of the hydrogen bomb.
[0:19:19 - 0:19:26] ▶
Coincidentally, that same day on the paper, if you turn over the front sheet, was the advertisement
[0:19:27 - 0:19:33] ▶
for Ed Teller coming the next day.
[0:19:33 - 0:19:36] ▶
Giving a lecture at the lab.
[0:19:36 - 0:19:38] ▶
So you go to a talk he gives or something?
[0:19:39 - 0:19:45] ▶
He was about to give a talk.
[0:19:45 - 0:19:46] ▶
He's sitting outside reading the paper because the door was locked.
[0:19:47 - 0:19:51] ▶
So I wanted to go super early, too, because I thought maybe it's going to be crowded or
[0:19:51 - 0:19:57] ▶
He's reading the front page of the paper because or else I really didn't know how to go out
[0:19:59 - 0:20:04] ▶
But I went, oh, it's the perfect segue.
[0:20:05 - 0:20:07] ▶
He's already reading about me.
[0:20:07 - 0:20:09] ▶
So I was like, I, Ed, I'm the guy you're reading about there.
[0:20:09 - 0:20:12] ▶
What was Edward Teller like?
[0:20:13 - 0:20:14] ▶
He's a grumpy old man.
[0:20:14 - 0:20:16] ▶
That's the only way I could describe him.
[0:20:17 - 0:20:19] ▶
Did he have any sort of distinct accent?
[0:20:19 - 0:20:23] ▶
Of course he has a distinct accent.
[0:20:23 - 0:20:24] ▶
He had a big thick Hungarian.
[0:20:27 - 0:20:28] ▶
Yeah, he had giant eyebrows.
[0:20:28 - 0:20:29] ▶
I mean, he looked exactly like himself.
[0:20:31 - 0:20:33] ▶
And so what was the conversation like?
[0:20:35 - 0:20:36] ▶
Are you like, hey, that's me.
[0:20:37 - 0:20:38] ▶
And then what did he say?
[0:20:38 - 0:20:40] ▶
He said, well, that's fascinating.
[0:20:40 - 0:20:42] ▶
But I can't remember it verbatim.
[0:20:43 - 0:20:45] ▶
But it is grossly impractical.
[0:20:45 - 0:20:48] ▶
I said, yeah, it's not made to be a practical, you know, mode of transportation.
[0:20:48 - 0:20:54] ▶
And then we only spoke for a short time.
[0:20:55 - 0:20:56] ▶
And then you can hear the door unclick, swing open.
[0:20:57 - 0:21:00] ▶
And a guy greeted him, oh, Mr. Teller.
[0:21:00 - 0:21:02] ▶
And so they brought him in.
[0:21:02 - 0:21:03] ▶
And, you know, that was that.
[0:21:04 - 0:21:05] ▶
But as time went on, I made reference to that meeting when I sent him a resume after I had moved on from Los Alamos.
[0:21:05 - 0:21:13] ▶
And he remembered me.
[0:21:13 - 0:21:16] ▶
And that's who directed me to EG&G, how this all started to go to S4.
[0:21:16 - 0:21:22] ▶
Have you ever seen there's a video of Edward Teller being questioned on his relationship with you?
[0:21:25 - 0:21:32] ▶
Yeah, yeah, of course.
[0:21:32 - 0:21:33] ▶
Because he, first of all, he goes into, he's being questioned on nuclear propulsion.
[0:21:33 - 0:21:38] ▶
And he, like, doesn't want to get into it.
[0:21:39 - 0:21:40] ▶
And then he's questioning on you, and he has the exact same reaction.
[0:21:41 - 0:21:44] ▶
It is, in my opinion, not interesting.
[0:21:45 - 0:21:47] ▶
I don't intend to answer it.
[0:21:48 - 0:21:50] ▶
If you ask me that question on camera, I will shut up.
[0:21:50 - 0:21:53] ▶
You're not going to get an answer right on me on that.
[0:21:56 - 0:21:58] ▶
And if I ask you on camera if you know Bob Lazar, can you just say no?
[0:22:00 - 0:22:05] ▶
I will sit silently.
[0:22:07 - 0:22:08] ▶
I mean, I spoke to the guy before he went and interviewed Teller.
[0:22:08 - 0:22:16] ▶
He was one of Teller's students.
[0:22:16 - 0:22:18] ▶
And he said, you know, I'm going to bring up you to Teller.
[0:22:19 - 0:22:23] ▶
And I went, that would be awesome.
[0:22:23 - 0:22:24] ▶
And it would be awesome to see how fast he denies me.
[0:22:25 - 0:22:29] ▶
You know, and he did immediately.
[0:22:30 - 0:22:31] ▶
But he denied you in the same way.
[0:22:32 - 0:22:34] ▶
First, he goes, yeah, technically you could get, you know, a real power source from nuclear.
[0:22:34 - 0:22:39] ▶
And basically implying he knows a lot about it, but he's not going to talk about it.
[0:22:39 - 0:22:43] ▶
I think he said, is there anything other than fish and refusion?
[0:22:43 - 0:22:47] ▶
No, nothing that anybody interested about.
[0:22:47 - 0:22:50] ▶
But there's total annihilation, you know.
[0:22:50 - 0:22:53] ▶
And yeah, he just completely discounted that, which is interesting for Teller.
[0:22:53 - 0:22:58] ▶
Do you think that he is talking about, because you talk about this 115, you hit a proton.
[0:22:58 - 0:23:04] ▶
I don't know if that's who he's referring to.
[0:23:04 - 0:23:05] ▶
And then you get this matter, antimatter annihilation thing.
[0:23:06 - 0:23:08] ▶
I don't know if that's what he was referring to, but he's also, but he's clearly not addressing
[0:23:08 - 0:23:14] ▶
the most powerful nuclear reaction there is.
[0:23:14 - 0:23:16] ▶
And why would he do that?
[0:23:17 - 0:23:18] ▶
And he's clearly also denying the nuclear knowledge in the same way that he's denying his link to you.
[0:23:18 - 0:23:25] ▶
Which to me is such a tell that he obviously met you.
[0:23:26 - 0:23:29] ▶
It's really weird that he would do that.
[0:23:31 - 0:23:33] ▶
And so you were at Los Alamos and were you working with other physicists at the time?
[0:23:33 - 0:23:39] ▶
Or what was your main kind of like day-to-day responsibility there?
[0:23:39 - 0:23:43] ▶
I did some, I was building, I think this was for the particle accelerator.
[0:23:46 - 0:23:53] ▶
They wanted to be able to trim the voltage to a very fine degree.
[0:23:53 - 0:23:58] ▶
So I was building some high voltage power supplies, stuff that's insulated by fiber optics.
[0:23:59 - 0:24:05] ▶
So you can make adjustments, you know, from a distance without interfering with, you know,
[0:24:05 - 0:24:11] ▶
the electric fields or anything.
[0:24:12 - 0:24:13] ▶
And day-to-day there was just maintenance on the targets and experiments we were doing.
[0:24:15 - 0:24:20] ▶
So it's cryogenics and, you know, dealing with high power magnets.
[0:24:20 - 0:24:26] ▶
And I mean, what else?
[0:24:26 - 0:24:29] ▶
Radio actors' materials.
[0:24:29 - 0:24:30] ▶
And, you know, Los Alamos stuff.
[0:24:31 - 0:24:34] ▶
I mean, I'm just trying to remember what I did every day, but it was, it was, there was no really regular routine.
[0:24:35 - 0:24:42] ▶
You know, we'd either be working on getting ready to do an experiment.
[0:24:43 - 0:24:47] ▶
So we'd be working on, you know, the detection equipment.
[0:24:47 - 0:24:50] ▶
Or setting up the experiment and it all had to do with, you know, the output of the accelerator and adjusting that.
[0:24:51 - 0:25:03] ▶
So this was a particle accelerator?
[0:25:04 - 0:25:05] ▶
Yeah, it's a half mile long linear accelerator in Los Alamos.
[0:25:07 - 0:25:11] ▶
And the beam splits off.
[0:25:11 - 0:25:14] ▶
It comes down and it splits off into different experimental areas.
[0:25:15 - 0:25:20] ▶
So you can conduct a whole bunch of different experiments, you know, just from one beam.
[0:25:20 - 0:25:26] ▶
And they can put different things in the targets to make different particles and go different directions.
[0:25:26 - 0:25:30] ▶
And depending on the speed of the particle going by and its spin and how long it's in transit, you can calculate its mass and, you know, backtrack and then put things together.
[0:25:30 - 0:25:42] ▶
And, you know, analogy I always gave was, uh, it's, it's like if you wanted to analyze a Swiss watch, but you really couldn't look inside.
[0:25:42 - 0:25:52] ▶
But, so you could take it and throw it as hard as you can at a concrete wall.
[0:25:52 - 0:25:58] ▶
And then it busts apart and all the pieces go flying off.
[0:25:59 - 0:26:02] ▶
Well, by looking at those pieces, you could backtrack everything.
[0:26:03 - 0:26:06] ▶
You could see if one was spinning a certain direction and you know the rotation and how fast it came off, then you know the mass of it.
[0:26:06 - 0:26:14] ▶
If it was turning before and by the angles, you can put it back there and eventually you can reassemble the thing and see how it was made just from the particles flying apart.
[0:26:14 - 0:26:24] ▶
So essentially what an accelerator does is smash something apart and then we can figure out how it all goes together just by monitoring those particles.
[0:26:24 - 0:26:32] ▶
So, I mean, that's, that's, that's what I did at Los Alamos.
[0:26:34 - 0:26:37] ▶
Did you, did you get the sense that there were two branches of science, science that was a little more classified and then public science?
[0:26:37 - 0:26:47] ▶
I thought we were all on the same level.
[0:26:50 - 0:26:51] ▶
Now I know, um, you can't say why they erased you from MIT and there are a lot of people out there who say you faked your educational credentials.
[0:26:53 - 0:27:03] ▶
You have very good, I think, reason that at least passes, you know, Joe Rogan and some other people who I really trust their sniff test.
[0:27:03 - 0:27:11] ▶
He said that he was working on something for the government at, and they sent him to MIT to learn something.
[0:27:12 - 0:27:21] ▶
But I will ask you, is there anything you can say high level that hints at why you can't talk about why you're at MIT?
[0:27:21 - 0:27:29] ▶
Well, I was sent there.
[0:27:29 - 0:27:32] ▶
And, um, if you're sent like there for a specific reason, um, maybe to do some classified research or work.
[0:27:35 - 0:27:45] ▶
It's going to be off the books.
[0:27:47 - 0:27:48] ▶
Yeah, I mean, but it's also, you also can't talk about it because it's still, I mean, look, the government's never going to come and prosecute me.
[0:27:49 - 0:27:59] ▶
For at least I hope not for releasing information about S4.
[0:27:59 - 0:28:03] ▶
But assuming I was working on a weapon system, that's always, that's still covered under the security agreement.
[0:28:04 - 0:28:13] ▶
And at this point in my life, I just don't want to make any waves.
[0:28:13 - 0:28:16] ▶
No, I think that's very reasonable.
[0:28:19 - 0:28:20] ▶
It's also, I should note, and this is me talking and not you, MIT long as a university, you know, affiliated research center.
[0:28:20 - 0:28:28] ▶
It's called a UARC and they do all sorts of classified stuff.
[0:28:28 - 0:28:32] ▶
You know, they have a super soldier program.
[0:28:32 - 0:28:35] ▶
They're, you know, we're always at the forefront of nanotechnology.
[0:28:35 - 0:28:37] ▶
And so the idea that.
[0:28:37 - 0:28:39] ▶
Well, anything I would have potentially been working on wouldn't be so outlandish as super soldiers or it'd be just very conventional.
[0:28:40 - 0:28:48] ▶
You know, but still classified material.
[0:28:49 - 0:28:53] ▶
I think, I think, I think it's just helpful because this stuff is circulating out there.
[0:28:55 - 0:29:00] ▶
And, you know, the idea that you would get sent to that school specifically and work on something that you can't talk about is very feasible.
[0:29:00 - 0:29:09] ▶
I'm not saying that I did get sent, but I would have gotten sent.
[0:29:09 - 0:29:11] ▶
If I got sent there, you know, yeah, there's a very clear possibility I wouldn't be able to talk about it and I'd be working on some classified stuff.
[0:29:14 - 0:29:21] ▶
If you wanted to hire a guy who could think clearly out of the box and help solve problems, but who could be discredited if you needed to do that.
[0:29:22 - 0:29:32] ▶
Bob was probably the best person in the country at the time.
[0:29:32 - 0:29:35] ▶
He was perfect for it.
[0:29:35 - 0:29:36] ▶
George Knapp was originally this very instrumental part of breaking your story in 1989 as part of KLAS.
[0:29:36 - 0:29:46] ▶
Did you, you took him to Los Alamos?
[0:29:47 - 0:29:49] ▶
Yeah, I told him all this Los Alamos stuff and I said, well, let's go there.
[0:29:51 - 0:29:58] ▶
And security was a little more lax back then.
[0:29:59 - 0:30:02] ▶
Uh, so we got in a plane and, uh, you just rented a car and, you know, at that time, everyone I knew still worked there.
[0:30:02 - 0:30:12] ▶
So including the guards, we're getting in.
[0:30:13 - 0:30:15] ▶
Hey, Bill, Bob, you're back, you know?
[0:30:15 - 0:30:16] ▶
And so we're in and, uh, you know, just took George everywhere.
[0:30:16 - 0:30:21] ▶
And, you know, walk in here and I still knew combinations to places.
[0:30:23 - 0:30:27] ▶
I'm sure it was not all a hundred percent legal, but yeah, George just walked around, filmed everything, spoke to people that I worked with.
[0:30:27 - 0:30:35] ▶
And he said, all right, we can check that box off.
[0:30:35 - 0:30:38] ▶
And then, uh, we went back.
[0:30:38 - 0:30:41] ▶
And so, cause I also, you know, again, I want to, uh, uh, address some of these like detracting comments circulating online.
[0:30:42 - 0:30:51] ▶
There are people who are like, oh, he just quizzed the physicists, you know, at Los Alamos, but he really had some other job there or something.
[0:30:51 - 0:30:59] ▶
First of all, like your, your, uh, description of a particle accelerator and, and how to actually, you know, detect subatomic particles, I think was, you know, first class.
[0:30:59 - 0:31:08] ▶
And then second, you have a guy in George Knapp, which you are, you have to either, um, accuse him of some sort of collusion or something in his orientation towards you or admit that you showed him around.
[0:31:08 - 0:31:20] ▶
People knew your name.
[0:31:21 - 0:31:22] ▶
No, I mean, George will verify that.
[0:31:22 - 0:31:23] ▶
You know, he saw it.
[0:31:23 - 0:31:23] ▶
And clearly he was trying to suss you out by asking you to invite him.
[0:31:24 - 0:31:28] ▶
I just don't pay attention to the detractors and the nonsense.
[0:31:30 - 0:31:34] ▶
To me, we're, we're, we're past that.
[0:31:36 - 0:31:39] ▶
Now, I never met Dr. Teller again, but in 1988, when I decided to reenter the scientific community, I sent him a resume and inquired about a job.
[0:31:41 - 0:31:49] ▶
Dr. Teller responded by telephone and told me that he was no longer active, but just functioned in a chief consultant capacity.
[0:31:50 - 0:31:56] ▶
He gave me the name of a contact to call in Las Vegas.
[0:31:56 - 0:31:59] ▶
I made that call and things progressed from there until I got into the program at S4.
[0:32:00 - 0:32:04] ▶
And so you send him the resume and he remembers you somehow.
[0:32:04 - 0:32:07] ▶
Because I made mention of the jet car in Los Alamos.
[0:32:08 - 0:32:10] ▶
And then, and then he sends your resume to EG&G and then you get a job there.
[0:32:11 - 0:32:15] ▶
I don't, I don't know if he sent it.
[0:32:15 - 0:32:17] ▶
He, uh, when he did reply to me, he, he gave me information, contact information for EG&G.
[0:32:17 - 0:32:25] ▶
So I don't know if he said, or just have a look at this young man or something like that.
[0:32:25 - 0:32:31] ▶
Or, or if he did send the resumes, I don't know what happened behind the scenes.
[0:32:31 - 0:32:35] ▶
Did you know anything about EG&G at the time or?
[0:32:35 - 0:32:38] ▶
I know they did measurements.
[0:32:38 - 0:32:39] ▶
They did all the, uh, I mean, those are the guys that came out and figured how to, you know, photograph, uh, you know, an exploding nuclear bomb without it getting overexposed.
[0:32:39 - 0:32:50] ▶
Um, they did all kinds of things, make giant flash tubes so you can photograph cities from bombers and, and stuff.
[0:32:51 - 0:32:59] ▶
So, um, that's about all I knew.
[0:32:59 - 0:33:03] ▶
I knew they were just, uh, you know, a contractor that did weird stuff for the government, but, you know, leaning heavily in the nuclear testing area.
[0:33:03 - 0:33:11] ▶
It's a company that is the namesake of Doc Edgerton, who was MIT faculty actually.
[0:33:12 - 0:33:17] ▶
Edgerton, Grimmerhausen, and Greer.
[0:33:18 - 0:33:20] ▶
Many types of cameras will be in use.
[0:33:21 - 0:33:24] ▶
The most important are fast tacks, which operate up to 9,000 frames per second and expose their entire footage in a fraction of a second.
[0:33:24 - 0:33:33] ▶
Have you looked at any of the other, you know, I obviously you're really into nuclear and then you worked on UFOs.
[0:33:33 - 0:33:39] ▶
There's this amazing book that I always cite that I'm sure you're aware of Luigi called UFOs and Nukes by a friend of mine named Robert Hastings.
[0:33:39 - 0:33:46] ▶
And he talks about UFOs like tic tac saucers, orbs, all these different shapes and sizes of UFOs showing up at nuclear bases all across the U S.
[0:33:46 - 0:33:57] ▶
I've certainly heard that.
[0:33:57 - 0:33:58] ▶
Isn't that interesting there?
[0:33:59 - 0:34:00] ▶
And there are 167 whistleblowers who are on what's called the PRP program where they have to report if they're taking ibuprofen because they're guarding the crown jewels of American defense.
[0:34:00 - 0:34:09] ▶
There's really 167 of those guys?
[0:34:13 - 0:34:15] ▶
Yeah, that's, that's incredible.
[0:34:20 - 0:34:21] ▶
I mean, that should be investigated further and I, I'm sure it is, but not publicly, but there, I mean, you're talking about nuclear sites.
[0:34:21 - 0:34:30] ▶
If you're talking about nuclear sites, you are at the very core of national security.
[0:34:30 - 0:34:36] ▶
So my point is, is if you're doing the photography of that early on, you've got to have some asymmetric knowledge of UFO stuff.
[0:34:36 - 0:34:44] ▶
That would be my guess.
[0:34:44 - 0:34:45] ▶
They were the guys documenting and photographing everything from every angle from everywhere.
[0:34:46 - 0:34:50] ▶
So if in fact all that stuff was going on, EG&G had to catch something.
[0:34:51 - 0:34:55] ▶
And EG&G, it keeps coming up for me too in my own investigations.
[0:34:56 - 0:35:03] ▶
Even there's this thing called the, you know, the Wilson Davis memo where the scientist who actually lives in Austin, his name is Eric Davis, meets with the head of J2 joint chiefs who under whose purview is all military technology.
[0:35:04 - 0:35:18] ▶
A guy named Admiral Thomas Wilson.
[0:35:18 - 0:35:20] ▶
And they're in the parking lot of EG&G.
[0:35:20 - 0:35:23] ▶
And Thomas Wilson is like furious that he doesn't have oversight over this specific corporate program, which seems to be reverse engineering exotic UFO material.
[0:35:23 - 0:35:33] ▶
So you get a job at EG&G.
[0:35:33 - 0:35:36] ▶
What's your first touch point there?
[0:35:37 - 0:35:39] ▶
And so you have a little bit of context, but.
[0:35:39 - 0:35:42] ▶
I originally went in there.
[0:35:42 - 0:35:44] ▶
I didn't know what the job was.
[0:35:44 - 0:35:46] ▶
They interviewed me for that.
[0:35:46 - 0:35:49] ▶
And somewhere in the middle of it, they said, you know, we actually have a different job that we're thinking of plugging you into now.
[0:35:49 - 0:35:56] ▶
I think I went to the bathroom and when I came back, they said, we're changing channels.
[0:35:56 - 0:36:00] ▶
So I don't know if they were both something at S4 or.
[0:36:04 - 0:36:08] ▶
Something else is going to be for EG&G or the Department of Naval Intelligence.
[0:36:10 - 0:36:15] ▶
And then they thought maybe S4 would be a, you know, a better fit.
[0:36:15 - 0:36:19] ▶
I don't know what, again, what went on behind the scenes, but there were two jobs there and they decided I'd be better off with the second one.
[0:36:19 - 0:36:26] ▶
And the second one was S4 out at the Papoose Lake area.
[0:36:26 - 0:36:31] ▶
And what, what were they screening for?
[0:36:31 - 0:36:34] ▶
Like, what, what do you think they were asking you and trying to get at?
[0:36:34 - 0:36:38] ▶
And then when you go to the bathroom, why do they.
[0:36:38 - 0:36:40] ▶
Shift and they say, this guy is actually going to.
[0:36:42 - 0:36:44] ▶
The, the, the, that UFO thing we're stuck on.
[0:36:44 - 0:36:46] ▶
This guy is going to break it wide open.
[0:36:46 - 0:36:48] ▶
I don't think that's what they said.
[0:36:50 - 0:36:51] ▶
I think they were stuck.
[0:36:52 - 0:36:54] ▶
And I think they, they were, they kept, you know, just because of the way the place is arranged.
[0:36:54 - 0:37:01] ▶
Um, they kept trying to attack the problem from the same direction all the time, you know, which is only going to yield the same result.
[0:37:02 - 0:37:11] ▶
In fact, if you expect it, anything else, you're nuts.
[0:37:11 - 0:37:15] ▶
That's the definition of crazy, right?
[0:37:16 - 0:37:18] ▶
Doing the same thing and expecting different results.
[0:37:18 - 0:37:20] ▶
Um, but, um, yeah, most of their questions was not about, um, my technical knowledge or work experience.
[0:37:20 - 0:37:32] ▶
It was what I did after work.
[0:37:32 - 0:37:34] ▶
And, you know, like the projects I built, why did you do that?
[0:37:35 - 0:37:39] ▶
Um, and I, I think they were just looking at trying to find somebody that was outside of the box.
[0:37:40 - 0:37:47] ▶
And I think that's where I fit.
[0:37:47 - 0:37:50] ▶
Cause before that you had really straight laced scientists, physicists, technicians, you know, that abided by the rules and all that.
[0:37:50 - 0:37:57] ▶
And they look, we need a little push from another direction.
[0:37:57 - 0:38:00] ▶
And I mean, it's my guess.
[0:38:01 - 0:38:02] ▶
I think that's why they popped me in there.
[0:38:02 - 0:38:04] ▶
At that point, do you have any idea what you're getting yourself into?
[0:38:04 - 0:38:06] ▶
But the, you know, they said it's at a remote area and the work hours can vary.
[0:38:08 - 0:38:12] ▶
Some people are out there for, uh, two weeks on one week off.
[0:38:12 - 0:38:17] ▶
Um, some people, and you know, depends if they're married or not or anything and, you know, can spend that much time out there.
[0:38:17 - 0:38:24] ▶
Some people only go out three days a week and, you know, so, and some people are just on call and, you know, for the time being, it would probably just probably need you sporadically going out there on call.
[0:38:24 - 0:38:36] ▶
And, you know, until we get you up to speed and do you have any problems with traveling?
[0:38:36 - 0:38:40] ▶
So I thought, wow, if it's out in the desert, um, it's probably, I thought it was the only thing I knew about the desert was at that time, it's a nuclear test site.
[0:38:42 - 0:38:50] ▶
So I thought, I thought it was weapons related and, you know, specifically nuclear weapon related.
[0:38:50 - 0:38:56] ▶
And I was going to be at, uh, you know, the nuclear test site at somewhere, you know, stationed near Mercury.
[0:38:57 - 0:39:04] ▶
The way it worked was they'd call me at random days and they'd say, Mr. Lazard is now such and such time.
[0:39:06 - 0:39:16] ▶
We need you to come out today.
[0:39:16 - 0:39:17] ▶
So I'd go out there.
[0:39:18 - 0:39:19] ▶
I'd drive out to EG&G Special Projects, which was right in McCarran Airport at that time.
[0:39:19 - 0:39:24] ▶
I'd go through a little security there and then out on the tarmac and board one of the Janet flights.
[0:39:24 - 0:39:30] ▶
They were only used by the government for going back and forth to the test site.
[0:39:31 - 0:39:34] ▶
Highway 363 Las Vegas Tower.
[0:39:35 - 0:39:36] ▶
We just took off and landed.
[0:39:42 - 0:39:44] ▶
And, uh, I still thought I was at the, you know, I didn't know it.
[0:39:44 - 0:39:49] ▶
And you land at Area 51.
[0:39:52 - 0:39:55] ▶
And first of all, at that time, Area 51 meant nothing.
[0:39:55 - 0:39:58] ▶
It's just, this is known as Area 51.
[0:39:59 - 0:40:01] ▶
As all the, all the, you know, the test sites split up into areas.
[0:40:02 - 0:40:05] ▶
It's Area 2, Area 5.
[0:40:05 - 0:40:07] ▶
At what point, uh, do you go to ask for?
[0:40:09 - 0:40:12] ▶
You know, these, I've told the story so much and it's been so long.
[0:40:13 - 0:40:17] ▶
All the days kind of mix and infuse into one now.
[0:40:17 - 0:40:21] ▶
So I can't separate what you did on that day.
[0:40:21 - 0:40:24] ▶
What'd you do on the third day?
[0:40:24 - 0:40:25] ▶
But I don't think we drove down on the first day.
[0:40:29 - 0:40:32] ▶
I think it was just a paperwork and stuff day.
[0:40:32 - 0:40:34] ▶
Uh, but the second day for sure, we drove down, um, got in the bus and it was a long bumpy ride.
[0:40:34 - 0:40:40] ▶
Um, and that the windows were blacked out on the bus and it was just a navy blue painted bus.
[0:40:40 - 0:40:48] ▶
And it, it seemed like we went south.
[0:40:48 - 0:40:50] ▶
Um, by the time we got there, it got off the bus.
[0:40:50 - 0:40:53] ▶
I, I mean, the sun was setting to my right.
[0:40:53 - 0:40:56] ▶
And then what happens next?
[0:40:56 - 0:40:58] ▶
Well, I mean, when, you mean when I got there?
[0:40:59 - 0:41:01] ▶
I mean, that's where we, Dennis led me in.
[0:41:02 - 0:41:06] ▶
And who's Dennis for the audience?
[0:41:07 - 0:41:09] ▶
I guess you can call him my supervisor, but he was kind of my shadow and everything.
[0:41:09 - 0:41:15] ▶
He was just attached to me.
[0:41:15 - 0:41:17] ▶
This is Dennis Mariani.
[0:41:17 - 0:41:18] ▶
And so he leads you in.
[0:41:20 - 0:41:21] ▶
There's a, there's a guard there.
[0:41:23 - 0:41:25] ▶
Um, we get past him and then they had to train the, uh, hand reader to give me, uh, a card to open the doors.
[0:41:25 - 0:41:34] ▶
So that's the first time I saw that hand scanner.
[0:41:34 - 0:41:38] ▶
He shows me this, you swipe on the door and it records every time you come in and out and do everything.
[0:41:40 - 0:41:45] ▶
And is there a bodyguard or like a.
[0:41:45 - 0:41:47] ▶
Once you're in the room with the scanner, there's nothing.
[0:41:48 - 0:41:50] ▶
There's just a door you open up, but it's just a really long.
[0:41:50 - 0:41:53] ▶
And just kind of, it's not modern, looks old.
[0:41:56 - 0:41:59] ▶
It's just painted cinder block with light green and dark green.
[0:41:59 - 0:42:02] ▶
Kind of looked at my old kindergarten or something.
[0:42:02 - 0:42:05] ▶
It's this vast expanse.
[0:42:05 - 0:42:07] ▶
And is all of it underground or in a mountain or.
[0:42:07 - 0:42:10] ▶
It's kind of on the side of a mountain.
[0:42:11 - 0:42:12] ▶
You know, it's, so the hangers are right on the side or it's a hill.
[0:42:13 - 0:42:17] ▶
I guess whatever you want to describe it.
[0:42:17 - 0:42:19] ▶
So the hangers are there and then the carter is in back of the hangers.
[0:42:20 - 0:42:23] ▶
So that gives you hangar access.
[0:42:24 - 0:42:25] ▶
And there were nine hangers.
[0:42:26 - 0:42:27] ▶
So, um, and they're fairly big.
[0:42:27 - 0:42:30] ▶
So that explains why the corridors were so long.
[0:42:30 - 0:42:33] ▶
And so you're in there, you see this vast expanse.
[0:42:34 - 0:42:37] ▶
We went to review the briefings first.
[0:42:40 - 0:42:43] ▶
So that was off to the right.
[0:42:43 - 0:42:45] ▶
We came in, there was a desk there had, somebody had already laid out all the, uh, the briefings,
[0:42:46 - 0:42:53] ▶
which were summaries of the projects going on.
[0:42:53 - 0:42:56] ▶
So they didn't go in depth, but in case your project connected to some of these in some way,
[0:42:56 - 0:43:03] ▶
you had to have a brief overview of what else was going on.
[0:43:03 - 0:43:07] ▶
Project Galileo was the first, uh, you know, the first briefing on there.
[0:43:07 - 0:43:11] ▶
And that was your project.
[0:43:12 - 0:43:13] ▶
And then, but you had other briefings as well.
[0:43:13 - 0:43:15] ▶
And, and, and that was project looking glass.
[0:43:16 - 0:43:19] ▶
And so I imagine you take most interest in Galileo and, but you also look through looking glass
[0:43:23 - 0:43:28] ▶
But Galileo dealt with the propulsion system of the craft.
[0:43:30 - 0:43:35] ▶
And, um, and the directives that are given, uh, there were two primary directives is one
[0:43:35 - 0:43:43] ▶
to, uh, duplicate the propulsion system or components thereof with available materials,
[0:43:43 - 0:43:50] ▶
available earth materials.
[0:43:50 - 0:43:51] ▶
It said, um, and directive two was to be able to remotely, um, disable the operation of the
[0:43:52 - 0:44:00] ▶
Um, uh, and some, I don't know how it was worded somewhere, the word at all costs was
[0:44:00 - 0:44:07] ▶
So, um, that was really a high priority, but they wanted to, uh, they certainly wanted to
[0:44:07 - 0:44:14] ▶
duplicate it, but they really wanted to disable it.
[0:44:14 - 0:44:18] ▶
I do think that's an important distinction in the mandate of the program.
[0:44:18 - 0:44:22] ▶
It's to not necessarily reverse engineer, but to parallel engineer, find ways to, with
[0:44:22 - 0:44:30] ▶
terrestrial normal prosaic engineering build.
[0:44:30 - 0:44:35] ▶
Or come up with a hybrid system, something.
[0:44:35 - 0:44:37] ▶
I mean, the, the bottom line is we want to produce the effects this machine is having.
[0:44:38 - 0:44:43] ▶
Just, yeah, just do it.
[0:44:49 - 0:44:50] ▶
Which makes sense given the skillset they seem to take interest in with you because you are
[0:44:50 - 0:44:56] ▶
this outside of the box thinker.
[0:44:56 - 0:44:58] ▶
You're not this prim and proper traditional academic or something.
[0:44:59 - 0:45:04] ▶
Who does not want to break rules.
[0:45:04 - 0:45:06] ▶
Who might be extremely high IQ, but, uh, isn't necessarily rebellious in the way they think
[0:45:06 - 0:45:13] ▶
within these sort of narrow confines they're given.
[0:45:13 - 0:45:16] ▶
They were just looking to come at another angle and maybe we can, you know, uncover something.
[0:45:16 - 0:45:22] ▶
And, and just for the audience, what is sidekick and what is project looking glass?
[0:45:22 - 0:45:27] ▶
Sidekick was the weapon potential of the craft.
[0:45:27 - 0:45:29] ▶
The craft, if you're familiar with it, has three of the, uh, emitters on the bottom look
[0:45:30 - 0:45:36] ▶
like large trash cans and they send out the gravity waves or whatever form of energy is.
[0:45:36 - 0:45:43] ▶
But, excuse me, sidekick dealt with using those to focus a particle beam to stop it from diverging.
[0:45:43 - 0:45:53] ▶
So there was, it, it appeared to be there, there was some sort of weapon potential of doing that.
[0:45:53 - 0:45:59] ▶
Like a directed energy weapon.
[0:45:59 - 0:46:01] ▶
I think it was a particle weapon.
[0:46:02 - 0:46:04] ▶
So, um, I don't know where the, what the source was, but that's, that's just what the briefing contained in it.
[0:46:04 - 0:46:12] ▶
Are you given any other context before reading these documents?
[0:46:13 - 0:46:17] ▶
And when you're reading these documents, what, what's going through your.
[0:46:17 - 0:46:21] ▶
No, I mean, some of the stuff in there was just nonsense.
[0:46:21 - 0:46:25] ▶
I mean, and you wonder.
[0:46:25 - 0:46:27] ▶
Is this like a test?
[0:46:28 - 0:46:29] ▶
Um, you know, there is stuff like, you know, the aliens had made 65 corrections to, um, you know, in the evolution of humans and things.
[0:46:30 - 0:46:40] ▶
And as Barry explained to me, um, he said, look, they keep everything classified here, but if somebody says something, you know, and they hear it on the grapevine, they said, yeah, they've got a disc, an alien craft at, you know, down at the test site.
[0:46:40 - 0:46:59] ▶
They don't know where it comes from, but everybody that they give briefings or information to, they put unique nonsense information there.
[0:46:59 - 0:47:07] ▶
So, like if I had said anything, they, you know, I said, yeah, there's flying saucers down there and aliens made 65 corrections.
[0:47:07 - 0:47:15] ▶
They go, Lazar is the guy that.
[0:47:15 - 0:47:16] ▶
So that's, I think they put it in there to attach to a person, you know, he got this and they make it something enticing to say.
[0:47:17 - 0:47:26] ▶
So you go through these briefings, what happens next?
[0:47:26 - 0:47:28] ▶
At some point I went to the nurse who, um, it was the only female that was there.
[0:47:29 - 0:47:35] ▶
Uh, she, she said, you know, we have to do an allergen test.
[0:47:35 - 0:47:40] ▶
And I guess they had a bunch of samples from different materials.
[0:47:41 - 0:47:45] ▶
They do a little grid on my arm and then just pricked them and, you know, waited for a reaction.
[0:47:45 - 0:47:50] ▶
Um, they gave me something to drink, which is supposedly supposed to boost my immune system.
[0:47:51 - 0:47:57] ▶
It was a, you know, a deep orange, yellow color.
[0:47:57 - 0:48:00] ▶
And I think that was because the vitamin B was in there and I could, I can taste that because it's really a nasty taste.
[0:48:00 - 0:48:07] ▶
What did it taste like?
[0:48:07 - 0:48:08] ▶
Like a vitamin B solution.
[0:48:09 - 0:48:11] ▶
But it did, but it also had a pine taste to it.
[0:48:11 - 0:48:14] ▶
But anyway, that was that.
[0:48:14 - 0:48:16] ▶
I wasn't allergic to anything as it turned out.
[0:48:16 - 0:48:18] ▶
And eventually get it, go in and was introduced to Barry, who's going to be my lab partner.
[0:48:18 - 0:48:25] ▶
And, um, you know, from what I understand, I was replacing somebody that he worked with.
[0:48:25 - 0:48:31] ▶
What was Barry like?
[0:48:32 - 0:48:34] ▶
Barry, I don't know.
[0:48:35 - 0:48:35] ▶
How would you describe Barry?
[0:48:35 - 0:48:37] ▶
Barry was very enthusiastic.
[0:48:37 - 0:48:39] ▶
He was, he was really happy.
[0:48:40 - 0:48:42] ▶
I was there and, uh, really excited to show me stuff.
[0:48:42 - 0:48:46] ▶
Um, but clearly a lot had been done before I got there.
[0:48:46 - 0:48:50] ▶
If this was new, everything would be white, right?
[0:48:50 - 0:48:55] ▶
Everybody would be in, you know, I mean, you always want labs and everything white in case you see a little speck of dust or a part falls somewhere.
[0:48:55 - 0:49:03] ▶
You can identify them.
[0:49:03 - 0:49:04] ▶
You wouldn't have, you know, wooden lamp or lab benches and things like that.
[0:49:04 - 0:49:09] ▶
You'd probably have people in full respirator suits if they're just beginning.
[0:49:09 - 0:49:14] ▶
But these guys had reached a point where it was nonchalant, where they were, they were touching, you know, working with this stuff.
[0:49:14 - 0:49:23] ▶
And, um, you know, it really wasn't a thing is if they were taking apart a car engine.
[0:49:23 - 0:49:29] ▶
So, um, they had made a lot of progress and they weren't afraid of what they were working with.
[0:49:29 - 0:49:34] ▶
Although we were plenty afraid of the, uh, reactor.
[0:49:34 - 0:49:38] ▶
And, and you, at no point were you like, this could be some like, you know, anti-gravity secret program that, you know, I just wasn't cleared to.
[0:49:38 - 0:49:46] ▶
I mean, initially when I first saw it, I went, oh, that's what this whole thing's about.
[0:49:48 - 0:49:53] ▶
You know, it's, it's, it's just, it's just our new fighter and it looks like a flying saucer.
[0:49:53 - 0:49:58] ▶
So that's why people believe in flying saucers.
[0:49:58 - 0:50:00] ▶
Cause they see these new fighters flying around and, you know, but, um, yeah, it became quickly obvious that that wasn't the case.
[0:50:00 - 0:50:09] ▶
Like we have no idea how the thing works.
[0:50:09 - 0:50:11] ▶
It does stuff that's physically impossible and there's no country in the world could make something like that or have the power density that it has.
[0:50:11 - 0:50:22] ▶
It's in inconceivable.
[0:50:22 - 0:50:24] ▶
So to, you know, to, to affect space and time, like if another country was able to build something like that, the United States wouldn't exist, you know.
[0:50:24 - 0:50:34] ▶
To anybody who, who's a detractor, who doesn't, who could think maybe this was a U S object, something manmade or something that they put there as a prop.
[0:50:34 - 0:50:46] ▶
Some people would say, do you think they were trying to deceive Lazar or other people and all that?
[0:50:46 - 0:50:52] ▶
There's because I built it.
[0:50:52 - 0:50:54] ▶
There's one physical aspect of it that is impossible to build period.
[0:50:54 - 0:50:59] ▶
A hundred percent not possible is it's as far as if we have to consider it being a 52, almost 53 foot diameter craft, the main level, which is the level that Bob was able to access.
[0:50:59 - 0:51:14] ▶
And, and at one point stand up in the middle of that main level is in the center of the disc.
[0:51:14 - 0:51:22] ▶
And there is nothing that was visually witnessed on the bottom level.
[0:51:22 - 0:51:29] ▶
When he peaked, that is a supporting column holding that 53 foot diameter floor.
[0:51:29 - 0:51:36] ▶
We have nothing on earth.
[0:51:37 - 0:51:40] ▶
There is no material.
[0:51:40 - 0:51:42] ▶
You know, that's, that's the first I've ever heard of that angle.
[0:51:42 - 0:51:45] ▶
That's, that's really interesting.
[0:51:45 - 0:51:47] ▶
I think you know more about the craft at this point.
[0:51:48 - 0:51:52] ▶
Because of the thickness of the floor that we could see because of the lip of the access way, we could see the thickness of the floor.
[0:51:52 - 0:52:02] ▶
Also where the honeycomb hatchway is, you could see the thickness of the floor.
[0:52:02 - 0:52:07] ▶
Yeah, 52 feet diameter.
[0:52:08 - 0:52:09] ▶
There is nothing on earth.
[0:52:10 - 0:52:11] ▶
With no central support.
[0:52:11 - 0:52:12] ▶
That would not be doing boring like this and maybe, and potentially collapse.
[0:52:12 - 0:52:17] ▶
That's, that's a completely unique.
[0:52:20 - 0:52:22] ▶
No, I never, never even entertained that.
[0:52:29 - 0:52:33] ▶
That's, that's great.
[0:52:34 - 0:52:35] ▶
But that's, that's a hundred percent true.
[0:52:35 - 0:52:38] ▶
There's nothing that can do that.
[0:52:38 - 0:52:40] ▶
That's so interesting.
[0:52:41 - 0:52:42] ▶
What is the color of the craft itself?
[0:52:42 - 0:52:45] ▶
It's kind of a pewter stainless looking, but it's Luigi and I were talking about this the other day.
[0:52:45 - 0:52:55] ▶
It, it looks different close up than it does far away.
[0:52:56 - 0:53:01] ▶
I've tried to describe this a lot.
[0:53:06 - 0:53:08] ▶
And, uh, what's interesting is that I, my friend, Gene Huff, who was my kind of confidant at the time.
[0:53:08 - 0:53:16] ▶
And, um, you know, I tell him about this stuff and I said, you know, one of the weirdest things is if you're, if you're close to it, you know, it, it, it looks like the craft.
[0:53:16 - 0:53:27] ▶
And, and, and, and when you get far away, it doesn't look right.
[0:53:27 - 0:53:31] ▶
It looks more like a cartoon.
[0:53:31 - 0:53:33] ▶
And, um, so Luigi spending two and a half or three years modeling this and getting it in.
[0:53:34 - 0:53:42] ▶
And sure as hell, whatever they did, uh, Luigi will probably best tell you about that.
[0:53:42 - 0:53:48] ▶
Um, when they take the camera and they put it in the hanger and look at it close up, it looks like it should.
[0:53:49 - 0:53:54] ▶
And if they back it off, it doesn't look the same.
[0:53:54 - 0:53:57] ▶
It looks, so they were able to, whether intentionally or accidentally kind of duplicate it.
[0:53:57 - 0:54:03] ▶
I mean, they've got the model so close that it has, it's taken on some of the characteristics of the actual craft.
[0:54:03 - 0:54:10] ▶
And there's a part of the craft that you describe as blacker than black.
[0:54:11 - 0:54:15] ▶
You know what they call the portholes around the top?
[0:54:18 - 0:54:21] ▶
Which are, I do not believe are portholes.
[0:54:21 - 0:54:23] ▶
I think there's a black ring that goes around the top part of the craft and that's, we call that the insulator ring.
[0:54:24 - 0:54:32] ▶
Um, above that, I have no idea what's in that top section, but that's where these small square slash rectangular holes are around.
[0:54:32 - 0:54:43] ▶
They are assumed to be like some sort of planar array where there is some, something similar to a computer in the top section.
[0:54:44 - 0:54:53] ▶
And those arrays determine whether it's looking at starlight or whatever, uh, it determines its place in space.
[0:54:53 - 0:55:02] ▶
Um, but they, they don't look black.
[0:55:04 - 0:55:06] ▶
It's, and it's not just Vantablack.
[0:55:08 - 0:55:11] ▶
You know, they almost look like a bottomless pits in there, but I know they're solid.
[0:55:11 - 0:55:16] ▶
I mean, Barry told me they're solid.
[0:55:16 - 0:55:18] ▶
Um, I guess I don't know.
[0:55:18 - 0:55:21] ▶
Barry claimed they're solid.
[0:55:22 - 0:55:23] ▶
So to be technical, I don't know for a fact.
[0:55:23 - 0:55:25] ▶
I mean, but, um, I still think there's some kind of sensors, but it, it's, that is some unusual material.
[0:55:25 - 0:55:33] ▶
And when you go in there and look at the craft, it's a real ominous, creepy feeling.
[0:55:33 - 0:55:39] ▶
And a lot of it is because of the black.
[0:55:40 - 0:55:42] ▶
Just, it doesn't, it doesn't look right.
[0:55:43 - 0:55:45] ▶
Did anybody else say that going into the craft gave them an ominous feeling?
[0:55:45 - 0:55:49] ▶
It was, it was definitely unnerving.
[0:55:51 - 0:55:53] ▶
I think was his word looking at those.
[0:55:53 - 0:55:56] ▶
And, and just being in the craft generally, was that like a kind of ubiquitously known thing at S4?
[0:55:56 - 0:56:02] ▶
Like you walked into that thing.
[0:56:02 - 0:56:04] ▶
I didn't hear that from anybody, but it certainly was for me.
[0:56:04 - 0:56:07] ▶
Because the first thing you think, boy, that must've been so exciting.
[0:56:09 - 0:56:11] ▶
And yeah, from a outsider, it might be, but no, when you're really there, it wasn't exciting.
[0:56:12 - 0:56:18] ▶
It was, it was really frightening.
[0:56:18 - 0:56:20] ▶
And you walked around the, what looked like the cockpit of this thing.
[0:56:20 - 0:56:24] ▶
First of all, you can't just walk in.
[0:56:25 - 0:56:27] ▶
It's much smaller and narrower than you think you have to crawl in.
[0:56:28 - 0:56:31] ▶
And you really can't stand up until you're almost right in the center.
[0:56:31 - 0:56:34] ▶
So it doesn't have really, it's really all unusable space.
[0:56:35 - 0:56:39] ▶
Even if you're a small creature, there's a lot of unusable space in there.
[0:56:40 - 0:56:44] ▶
And, you know, because everything seemed to have a critical function to it.
[0:56:45 - 0:56:50] ▶
Um, I'm sure there was nothing for decoration.
[0:56:50 - 0:56:54] ▶
There's a reason to have all that space and the reason the craft is shaped like that.
[0:56:54 - 0:57:00] ▶
Um, but there were three things that look like seats.
[0:57:00 - 0:57:05] ▶
We call them seats, other humps, large rectangular smooth objects in there.
[0:57:05 - 0:57:11] ▶
There were three of those.
[0:57:11 - 0:57:12] ▶
Uh, we know those to be the amplifiers.
[0:57:12 - 0:57:15] ▶
They work with the, with the reactor.
[0:57:15 - 0:57:18] ▶
It amplifies the gravity wave and it's, you know, channeled to the emitter, which is right under the amplifiers.
[0:57:18 - 0:57:26] ▶
Um, again, we just called the seats cause they look like seats.
[0:57:26 - 0:57:30] ▶
It would be, I think it would be funny if it turned out that they were not seats at all.
[0:57:31 - 0:57:35] ▶
Um, yet another component we just knew nothing about.
[0:57:35 - 0:57:39] ▶
Bob always found it to be really weird, uh, that when the wave guide is applied right on top of the reactor,
[0:57:39 - 0:57:47] ▶
these two guys, they're, they're looking out.
[0:57:47 - 0:57:50] ▶
There's a, there's a, one of the archways that become transparent.
[0:57:50 - 0:57:53] ▶
So they, he believes that maybe that is where they're looking, but this guy here is staring at a pipe.
[0:57:53 - 0:57:59] ▶
Oh, the, the archway becoming transparent is so they can see.
[0:57:59 - 0:58:03] ▶
Oh, it's so interesting.
[0:58:04 - 0:58:06] ▶
I never like made that connection.
[0:58:06 - 0:58:07] ▶
They're looking at it.
[0:58:08 - 0:58:09] ▶
Oh, and there's a screen that the blue screen with a symbol with the like Korean like language.
[0:58:09 - 0:58:15] ▶
And then I, I've always thought, and I thought maybe they all become transparent.
[0:58:15 - 0:58:21] ▶
Maybe the whole arch, like the whole, all the archways can become transparent.
[0:58:22 - 0:58:26] ▶
What, why, why would it only be one?
[0:58:26 - 0:58:28] ▶
Cause it's so dark in there.
[0:58:28 - 0:58:29] ▶
And you saw a translucent, like almost Korean looking symbols.
[0:58:29 - 0:58:35] ▶
I saw the wall become translucent and at some point saw some kind of what I would call symbols.
[0:58:36 - 0:58:44] ▶
But not on a, in a three dimensional way, not on a flat screen or anything like that.
[0:58:44 - 0:58:53] ▶
Explain how you saw it.
[0:58:53 - 0:58:55] ▶
Cause you were explaining it to me yesterday.
[0:58:55 - 0:58:56] ▶
It wasn't like it was a screen.
[0:58:56 - 0:58:58] ▶
Um, it was just like, it was a three dimensional character sitting in there.
[0:58:59 - 0:59:04] ▶
It was like a projection.
[0:59:04 - 0:59:04] ▶
You said, yeah, I, he, he was explaining it to me yesterday because he explained it actually
[0:59:04 - 0:59:11] ▶
better yesterday than before I produced it.
[0:59:11 - 0:59:14] ▶
And you were saying it felt, it looked almost like a projection.
[0:59:14 - 0:59:18] ▶
And that, no, it wasn't a projection or it was on something.
[0:59:19 - 0:59:22] ▶
It was just a three dimensional thing in the air.
[0:59:22 - 0:59:25] ▶
Describe the day that you saw this thing fly.
[0:59:30 - 0:59:32] ▶
Um, it was already out.
[0:59:33 - 0:59:35] ▶
Um, uh, Barry and I were in the lab and then Dennis came in and he said, Hey, why don't you
[0:59:36 - 0:59:41] ▶
We're doing a test flight.
[0:59:42 - 0:59:43] ▶
You know, so, oh, this is great.
[0:59:43 - 0:59:45] ▶
So we go out through the lab door, right into the hangar.
[0:59:45 - 0:59:48] ▶
It was already outside, uh, sitting on the ground.
[0:59:48 - 0:59:52] ▶
And, uh, shortly after we got out there, uh, oh, I did notice there was a radio and I
[0:59:53 - 1:00:01] ▶
mentioned this in Luigi's movie, a VHF radio and they're in communication.
[1:00:01 - 1:00:05] ▶
So it, it, it made me almost positive that there was somebody in the craft.
[1:00:05 - 1:00:11] ▶
I don't know how, where they'd be sitting or how they would, why they're even in the
[1:00:15 - 1:00:19] ▶
craft, because it's, like I said, it's so uncomfortable, unusable space.
[1:00:19 - 1:00:23] ▶
They'd have to be hunched up or trying to sit on the edge of one of those seats.
[1:00:23 - 1:00:26] ▶
So, um, that put aside, uh, so you think they put a person in there because I think
[1:00:26 - 1:00:33] ▶
so, because they were communicating back and forth.
[1:00:33 - 1:00:35] ▶
Did you hear a voice?
[1:00:35 - 1:00:37] ▶
So you heard a voice coming from the craft.
[1:00:39 - 1:00:41] ▶
No, from the radio, from the radio, the VHF radio.
[1:00:41 - 1:00:44] ▶
But presumably coming from the craft.
[1:00:44 - 1:00:46] ▶
So he was monitoring.
[1:00:48 - 1:00:49] ▶
I mean, they must've had some other instrumentation set up on the crafts because he was monitoring
[1:00:50 - 1:00:54] ▶
Do you remember what the voice?
[1:00:55 - 1:00:56] ▶
That was interesting.
[1:00:56 - 1:00:57] ▶
But it was something.
[1:00:58 - 1:00:58] ▶
Because I, I mean, I was more stuck on the fact that how is a radio wave getting into
[1:00:58 - 1:01:03] ▶
This doesn't even make any sense.
[1:01:04 - 1:01:05] ▶
VHF being very high frequency.
[1:01:06 - 1:01:08] ▶
I mean, it should be distorted by the gravity wave going around it.
[1:01:09 - 1:01:12] ▶
Anyway, shortly after the craft began to lift off the ground silently at a little Corona
[1:01:12 - 1:01:19] ▶
discharge glow on the bottom and lift it off and drifted up into the sky and kind of moved
[1:01:19 - 1:01:26] ▶
During that test flight, Dennis motioned for me to come out and, you know, look up at it.
[1:01:28 - 1:01:36] ▶
And then he told me to walk forward and the craft was just sitting there stationary.
[1:01:37 - 1:01:41] ▶
And I walked out underneath it and he motioned for me to look up.
[1:01:41 - 1:01:46] ▶
I looked up and I couldn't see the craft.
[1:01:46 - 1:01:48] ▶
So I thought it flew away.
[1:01:49 - 1:01:51] ▶
And then he said, you know, come back.
[1:01:52 - 1:01:55] ▶
And, you know, I, I walked back and I just walked back.
[1:01:55 - 1:01:58] ▶
It caught my attention.
[1:01:59 - 1:02:00] ▶
I see the edge of the, the craft.
[1:02:00 - 1:02:02] ▶
So if you move, you can see it.
[1:02:03 - 1:02:06] ▶
And if you walk underneath it, you can't.
[1:02:06 - 1:02:08] ▶
So you can clearly see it's, it's bending the light.
[1:02:08 - 1:02:11] ▶
You can see the sky above the craft.
[1:02:11 - 1:02:13] ▶
So you can see that it's in its little envelope.
[1:02:13 - 1:02:15] ▶
And, um, then it kind of slid over to the left and right and then sat back down.
[1:02:15 - 1:02:22] ▶
Is what you saw, did, did it look like what we talk about when we talk about UFO videos
[1:02:23 - 1:02:30] ▶
and what we, you know, it's just like, look at the, you know, Nimitz, you know, 2004 FLIR
[1:02:30 - 1:02:35] ▶
video or, or even some of the, maybe better example, some of the optical videos, which
[1:02:35 - 1:02:39] ▶
are often grainy and fuzzy.
[1:02:39 - 1:02:41] ▶
And maybe that's due to gravitational lensing or some sort of space time perturbation due to
[1:02:41 - 1:02:46] ▶
these effects that you're talking about.
[1:02:46 - 1:02:48] ▶
But when you're seeing this craft fly, are you thinking this is the UFO stuff that's like
[1:02:48 - 1:02:54] ▶
I'm just because of the, the way that it can move, it can just negate.
[1:02:58 - 1:03:03] ▶
Um, I mean, it's, I really don't know how to describe it.
[1:03:05 - 1:03:10] ▶
Um, I mean, things like inertia really don't matter to it.
[1:03:10 - 1:03:16] ▶
Um, it just, it gets away with murder when it, when it comes to flying.
[1:03:17 - 1:03:23] ▶
Did you ever think, um, we are being tasked to figure out this reactor, even like, you
[1:03:23 - 1:03:31] ▶
know, the shape of the craft is sort of really confusing to us.
[1:03:31 - 1:03:34] ▶
How the hell do they know how to fly this thing?
[1:03:34 - 1:03:37] ▶
That goes through your head.
[1:03:41 - 1:03:43] ▶
Like you're like, are you, are you.
[1:03:43 - 1:03:44] ▶
Like I said, you know, clearly they've, they've had a lot of time.
[1:03:46 - 1:03:49] ▶
With this craft already.
[1:03:50 - 1:03:51] ▶
It could have been decades for all I know.
[1:03:51 - 1:03:54] ▶
So they're familiar with it.
[1:03:54 - 1:03:56] ▶
So, I mean, they, they knew the emitters have to be rotated, you know, to couple to the
[1:03:56 - 1:04:02] ▶
I mean, they knew how to fly it.
[1:04:03 - 1:04:05] ▶
Um, so that these guys were somewhat proficient with it.
[1:04:05 - 1:04:09] ▶
But it, so it would be your kind of base case assumption that now we have functional, what
[1:04:09 - 1:04:16] ▶
you might call alien reproduction vehicles or UFOs that humans can fly.
[1:04:16 - 1:04:21] ▶
If in 1987, 88, you had stuff that was, you know, we could at least test and you could go
[1:04:22 - 1:04:29] ▶
under them and stuff, then you would think that now we're probably, we've probably made
[1:04:29 - 1:04:33] ▶
much more progress, I assume.
[1:04:33 - 1:04:34] ▶
Or what, what, what do you think?
[1:04:35 - 1:04:36] ▶
So you think we're, we can test these things and use them in a rudimentary ways, but we
[1:04:40 - 1:04:45] ▶
don't understand how they work.
[1:04:45 - 1:04:47] ▶
No, it's like the, you know, analogy I, I gave, you know, you can go back to the 1800s
[1:04:47 - 1:04:54] ▶
and drop off a motorcycle.
[1:04:54 - 1:04:56] ▶
With the keys in it.
[1:04:57 - 1:04:58] ▶
And, you know, you can look at it and go, wow, that's never seen anything like that
[1:04:58 - 1:05:04] ▶
And look at the plastic fenders on it.
[1:05:04 - 1:05:06] ▶
And wow, that's unusual material.
[1:05:06 - 1:05:09] ▶
And, you know, there's the key.
[1:05:09 - 1:05:11] ▶
And eventually if you tinker with it long enough, someone's going to turn the key and it's
[1:05:11 - 1:05:14] ▶
And they're going to go, okay.
[1:05:16 - 1:05:16] ▶
And we turn it off and go, all right, that's on and off.
[1:05:17 - 1:05:19] ▶
And, you know, eventually just given time and human, human ingenuity, they're going to get
[1:05:19 - 1:05:25] ▶
it throttles here and they'll become proficient at driving it.
[1:05:25 - 1:05:29] ▶
But when it runs out of fuel, we're done.
[1:05:30 - 1:05:32] ▶
And when it comes right down to it, they can't even make that plastic fender.
[1:05:33 - 1:05:36] ▶
So you can become proficient at using it.
[1:05:39 - 1:05:42] ▶
And I think that's where we are.
[1:05:42 - 1:05:44] ▶
We had some knowledge of that.
[1:05:44 - 1:05:46] ▶
But I think if we had developed that technology, we would have absolutely already seen it.
[1:05:46 - 1:05:53] ▶
We wouldn't be wasting one minute building a conventional fighter or other.
[1:05:53 - 1:05:58] ▶
And they say, oh, well, it's secret.
[1:06:01 - 1:06:02] ▶
So jet engines were secret when we first came out with them and we built a whole fleet.
[1:06:03 - 1:06:08] ▶
You know, we'd absolutely divert every resource we had to duplicating these things.
[1:06:08 - 1:06:14] ▶
Do you guys think there's any chance that the craft is flown with somebody's mind, some
[1:06:15 - 1:06:20] ▶
It could very well be.
[1:06:21 - 1:06:22] ▶
Because there was obviously no physical controls to it.
[1:06:23 - 1:06:27] ▶
When the craft was being tested, the only test I saw from close range, it was already
[1:06:31 - 1:06:38] ▶
And when I went into the hangar, the bay doors between all the hangars were open.
[1:06:39 - 1:06:44] ▶
They had big, you know, there's the door that leads to the outside that's at an angle.
[1:06:44 - 1:06:51] ▶
But there's also big bay doors between all the hangars.
[1:06:51 - 1:06:55] ▶
Those were open for some reason.
[1:06:55 - 1:06:56] ▶
And when I came in to go witness that, I was able to look down and see that, boy, there's
[1:06:56 - 1:07:03] ▶
other, because nine of them all the way down there.
[1:07:03 - 1:07:05] ▶
What's going through your head and emotionally, how do you feel?
[1:07:05 - 1:07:09] ▶
Well, first of all, where did they all come from?
[1:07:09 - 1:07:11] ▶
How could you, I mean, I could see you found one somewhere.
[1:07:11 - 1:07:14] ▶
There's a crash or whatever.
[1:07:15 - 1:07:16] ▶
You don't find nine.
[1:07:17 - 1:07:19] ▶
I mean, where did they come from?
[1:07:19 - 1:07:22] ▶
None of them are damaged to any degree.
[1:07:22 - 1:07:24] ▶
Although the one I call the top hat had holes in it, but it looks like it was shot, you know,
[1:07:24 - 1:07:30] ▶
projectile, but it wasn't, you know, damage from, you know, crash or attempted landing.
[1:07:30 - 1:07:37] ▶
So where did all this stuff come from?
[1:07:38 - 1:07:40] ▶
There's so much missing to the story.
[1:07:40 - 1:07:43] ▶
Did they all look like the exact same sort of replica?
[1:07:43 - 1:07:46] ▶
No, each one was different.
[1:07:46 - 1:07:49] ▶
But the material all looked exactly the same.
[1:07:49 - 1:07:52] ▶
The color, the sheen.
[1:07:52 - 1:07:55] ▶
So it looked like they were all made of the same material.
[1:07:55 - 1:07:58] ▶
So the reactors and the propulsion were all the same.
[1:07:58 - 1:08:01] ▶
The material was all the same.
[1:08:01 - 1:08:02] ▶
But the shapes were somehow different.
[1:08:02 - 1:08:04] ▶
I mean, maybe they're a specialized craft, you know, you can take a step back from humanity
[1:08:05 - 1:08:10] ▶
and you go look at all the cars driving around.
[1:08:10 - 1:08:12] ▶
Well, you got a truck.
[1:08:12 - 1:08:13] ▶
That's a real long thing.
[1:08:13 - 1:08:15] ▶
You look at a Volkswagen.
[1:08:15 - 1:08:15] ▶
That's like a little, you know, and you see a motorcycle.
[1:08:16 - 1:08:18] ▶
You know, they're all, but they all have the same somewhat type of engine, you know,
[1:08:19 - 1:08:25] ▶
internal combustion engine is a powering them all.
[1:08:25 - 1:08:27] ▶
So they must have all different functions.
[1:08:27 - 1:08:29] ▶
And maybe that's just what we're looking at.
[1:08:29 - 1:08:30] ▶
And who says they're all men?
[1:08:32 - 1:08:34] ▶
Maybe some of those things are drones of some kind.
[1:08:34 - 1:08:36] ▶
People associate you with the kind of Billy Meyer sports model, like, you know,
[1:08:37 - 1:08:42] ▶
the craft that looks like that.
[1:08:42 - 1:08:43] ▶
It looks exactly like that.
[1:08:44 - 1:08:45] ▶
Like, I thought Billy Meyer was absolutely ridiculous because I've seen some of the pictures.
[1:08:47 - 1:08:52] ▶
And this is what I mentioned to you the other day, UFO researcher syndrome.
[1:08:52 - 1:08:57] ▶
I think the initial pictures Billy Meyer took of the sport model looking craft are 100% genuine.
[1:08:57 - 1:09:06] ▶
There's no way that there could be another one of those that just coincidentally looks exactly like what I call the sport model.
[1:09:06 - 1:09:16] ▶
So I think he absolutely photographed that and it was real.
[1:09:16 - 1:09:21] ▶
And I think at the time he got a lot of attention and, you know, he printed books and everything.
[1:09:21 - 1:09:26] ▶
And I think as time went on, he kind of missed that.
[1:09:26 - 1:09:30] ▶
And then he started making some models and taking some new pictures.
[1:09:30 - 1:09:34] ▶
And the other pictures look ridiculous.
[1:09:34 - 1:09:36] ▶
It looks like, you know.
[1:09:38 - 1:09:39] ▶
And there's something about, like, dinosaurs in his book.
[1:09:39 - 1:09:42] ▶
It looks like there's styrofoam balls all into it.
[1:09:43 - 1:09:46] ▶
Yeah, I found some more pictures.
[1:09:46 - 1:09:48] ▶
You know, come back.
[1:09:48 - 1:09:49] ▶
And, you know, so I think that's, you know, that's just a personal belief.
[1:09:49 - 1:09:55] ▶
There's no way you can tell me that those original pictures aren't genuine.
[1:09:56 - 1:10:01] ▶
And so that's the craft you worked on.
[1:10:02 - 1:10:05] ▶
The eight other crafts, what did those look like?
[1:10:06 - 1:10:08] ▶
I could only see two.
[1:10:10 - 1:10:12] ▶
Clearly, because from the angle, all you can see is just a little piece.
[1:10:13 - 1:10:18] ▶
And then all you can just see is the hanger out there.
[1:10:18 - 1:10:21] ▶
But one looked like what I call a jello mold, which is more like a bundt cake without the hole in the middle.
[1:10:22 - 1:10:29] ▶
And then the other one, as I previously mentioned, a top hat, like a carnival straw hat.
[1:10:29 - 1:10:35] ▶
And the brim had a hole in it.
[1:10:35 - 1:10:38] ▶
Is your immediate instinct humans didn't make these?
[1:10:39 - 1:10:43] ▶
At what point do you not see, like, an American flag on one of them?
[1:10:45 - 1:10:51] ▶
Yeah, on the sport model.
[1:10:51 - 1:10:53] ▶
I saw that, like, the first day that I went in.
[1:10:53 - 1:10:56] ▶
Was there any talk of how these crafts were retrieved?
[1:10:57 - 1:11:00] ▶
I know, I mean, I know the Navy got the sport model.
[1:11:02 - 1:11:08] ▶
And I think that was, from what Barry said, that was an archaeological dig.
[1:11:08 - 1:11:13] ▶
Which, by the way, isn't in the desert, it's in the water.
[1:11:13 - 1:11:16] ▶
And if there's another term for an archaeological dig that's in the water, I don't know what it is.
[1:11:16 - 1:11:21] ▶
I thought it's still a dig.
[1:11:21 - 1:11:23] ▶
But, yeah, I don't know what body of water, if it was the ocean or lake or what.
[1:11:23 - 1:11:29] ▶
But, yeah, that came from the water.
[1:11:29 - 1:11:31] ▶
Again, according to Barry, I didn't see this in documentation.
[1:11:31 - 1:11:34] ▶
But, yeah, that was happened upon by the Navy.
[1:11:34 - 1:11:38] ▶
And that's all I know.
[1:11:38 - 1:11:43] ▶
And I just theorize that's how the Navy got in control of everything.
[1:11:43 - 1:11:47] ▶
He was high up in the Navy, and he talks about retrieval of exotic technology on the seafloor.
[1:12:17 - 1:12:22] ▶
And I wonder, you know, you have Tim Burchette as a congressman from Tennessee who says there are five hot spots in oceans all around the world.
[1:12:23 - 1:12:31] ▶
You know, we think they're coming in from way out.
[1:12:31 - 1:12:33] ▶
Maybe they did millennial ago, but they're here, and they're in these deep water areas.
[1:12:34 - 1:12:39] ▶
And that's why, I mean, like we say, we know more about the face of the moon than we do what's going on there.
[1:12:40 - 1:12:46] ▶
And we have a higher propensity of sightings around these five or six, I believe, deep water areas.
[1:12:46 - 1:12:55] ▶
And I don't know, there's another, I have one friend in the Navy who's, you know, anonymous source.
[1:12:55 - 1:13:01] ▶
Maybe one day we'll do an interview, but he talks about the movie The Abyss by James Cameron.
[1:13:01 - 1:13:06] ▶
And he says maybe that scene where, you know, this sort of glowing object shows up isn't too far off from the truth.
[1:13:06 - 1:13:13] ▶
Look, one of our science fiction movies is going to be correct.
[1:13:14 - 1:13:18] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:13:18 - 1:13:19] ▶
Yeah, one of them is.
[1:13:20 - 1:13:22] ▶
Yeah, and we were talking last night with Luigi about Pascagoula, Missouri was the site of the production of nuclear subs for the Navy.
[1:13:22 - 1:13:31] ▶
And you have a famous case there of some fishermen who, you know, experience an alien abduction and have a UFO experience.
[1:13:32 - 1:13:39] ▶
Yeah, there's something going on with the ocean.
[1:13:39 - 1:13:42] ▶
It's been from the very beginning.
[1:13:43 - 1:13:44] ▶
George Knapp has interesting footage around Baja, Mexico.
[1:13:44 - 1:13:48] ▶
On the other side, you have Tampere, which seems to be a hotspot.
[1:13:48 - 1:13:51] ▶
You have the Caribbean, Bahamas.
[1:13:51 - 1:13:53] ▶
Yeah, I think that's where all these guys are hiding out.
[1:13:53 - 1:13:54] ▶
Do you think there's a possibility it's, you know, the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis?
[1:13:56 - 1:13:59] ▶
So this is this idea that they're ancient remnants of like an antediluvian civilization that existed pre-Ice Age or pre-Younger Dress.
[1:13:59 - 1:14:09] ▶
Yeah, and that they're more advanced than us.
[1:14:10 - 1:14:12] ▶
They're like the place of what we call Atlantis, are these beings who have coexisted, co-inhabited the Earth with us.
[1:14:12 - 1:14:19] ▶
It really could very well be.
[1:14:19 - 1:14:21] ▶
I mean, if you just look at the size of the ocean, you can hide an entire civilization down there.
[1:14:21 - 1:14:28] ▶
And we'll, especially if they're immune to the effects of the ocean, just got to be deep.
[1:14:28 - 1:14:33] ▶
We'll never find them.
[1:14:34 - 1:14:35] ▶
Would any of the scientific principles that you looked at as far as the bubble being created around the craft and all of that somehow be immune to salt water?
[1:14:35 - 1:14:43] ▶
Like, would it be able to travel transmedium?
[1:14:44 - 1:14:46] ▶
Because that's one of the...
[1:14:46 - 1:14:47] ▶
That's so interesting because that's the observables.
[1:14:48 - 1:14:50] ▶
It's light bent around the craft.
[1:14:50 - 1:14:51] ▶
I'm sure a raindrop would do.
[1:14:51 - 1:14:53] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:14:54 - 1:14:55] ▶
It's so fascinating.
[1:14:56 - 1:14:57] ▶
I've been involved in this whole thing since 1987.
[1:14:57 - 1:15:07] ▶
And since the 80s, or even before, let's go even all the way down to the 60s, everybody always talked about the U.S. Air Force.
[1:15:08 - 1:15:16] ▶
And Project Blue Book.
[1:15:17 - 1:15:18] ▶
And Project Blue Book.
[1:15:18 - 1:15:19] ▶
I mean, Bob Lazar comes out in 1989 and says they weren't crash saucers.
[1:15:19 - 1:15:24] ▶
They were intact craft.
[1:15:24 - 1:15:26] ▶
And it's the Navy that's in charge.
[1:15:27 - 1:15:29] ▶
And funny enough, 40 years later, that's what people are talking about.
[1:15:29 - 1:15:33] ▶
So, you know, when I see the new whistleblowers come out, like Eric Davis or people that we're seeing, I'm not skeptical at the fact that they were involved in something.
[1:15:33 - 1:15:46] ▶
What I find very, like, basically very interesting is that they're all saying exactly what Bob said in 1989, but they never say Bob Lazar is possibly factual.
[1:15:46 - 1:15:59] ▶
Right, right, right.
[1:15:59 - 1:16:00] ▶
Bob has nothing to do with that.
[1:16:02 - 1:16:04] ▶
But everything he said is right, though.
[1:16:04 - 1:16:05] ▶
They said they're, like, high level.
[1:16:06 - 1:16:08] ▶
There's definitely a decades-long multi-generational crash retrieval operation.
[1:16:08 - 1:16:13] ▶
But the one guy who says he's worked on a craft is somehow full of shit.
[1:16:13 - 1:16:17] ▶
Everything is right, though.
[1:16:19 - 1:16:20] ▶
I believe there aren't that many crashes.
[1:16:20 - 1:16:23] ▶
There just aren't that many crashes.
[1:16:23 - 1:16:24] ▶
If you had to guess how many crafts are in U.S. possession now in hangers.
[1:16:24 - 1:16:30] ▶
I mean, I can only talk about what I've seen.
[1:16:37 - 1:16:39] ▶
Do you think they have a sense of ontological treat?
[1:16:40 - 1:16:44] ▶
Like, when you see all this stuff around, you know, the ability to manipulate timelines with
[1:16:44 - 1:16:50] ▶
looking glass or even just manipulate time on a local scale.
[1:16:50 - 1:16:53] ▶
And then they're saying that they found these things at archaeological digs under the ocean.
[1:16:53 - 1:16:59] ▶
Do you have a sense that they have, like, a metaphysical model that's, like, greater than the average citizen?
[1:17:00 - 1:17:07] ▶
So it's, like, their origin story of humanity.
[1:17:07 - 1:17:10] ▶
I think there's a good chance of that.
[1:17:12 - 1:17:14] ▶
Is your kind of Occam's razor explanation that these are extraterrestrials?
[1:17:14 - 1:17:19] ▶
Do you think they're time travelers?
[1:17:19 - 1:17:20] ▶
I think that's all equal.
[1:17:22 - 1:17:24] ▶
I mean, there's just as much chance that they're, you know, time travelers, visitors from another dimension, us from the future, or aliens.
[1:17:25 - 1:17:34] ▶
I don't see anything pointing in any specific direction.
[1:17:34 - 1:17:37] ▶
I go with the aliens just because we've seen it so much in our movie.
[1:17:37 - 1:17:42] ▶
I think we're just trained to think that.
[1:17:42 - 1:17:44] ▶
You can see other worlds.
[1:17:48 - 1:17:49] ▶
This can go travel in another fashion and get there.
[1:17:49 - 1:17:54] ▶
There's probably life there.
[1:17:54 - 1:17:55] ▶
They probably build things.
[1:17:55 - 1:17:57] ▶
And, you know, it all makes sense.
[1:17:57 - 1:17:59] ▶
But when you go to other dimensions in time, well, can you even time travel at all?
[1:18:00 - 1:18:04] ▶
I mean, will that ever be possible?
[1:18:04 - 1:18:06] ▶
You know, maybe, maybe not.
[1:18:07 - 1:18:08] ▶
How do you get here from another dimension?
[1:18:08 - 1:18:10] ▶
Why would you go to another dimension and start hassling people over there, you know?
[1:18:12 - 1:18:15] ▶
I mean, the other things don't make sense.
[1:18:16 - 1:18:18] ▶
So, yeah, I lean, I guess the Occam's razor is aliens.
[1:18:18 - 1:18:22] ▶
But it could be any one of the other possibilities.
[1:18:24 - 1:18:27] ▶
Or one that we haven't thought of that's just completely ridiculous.
[1:18:28 - 1:18:31] ▶
What do you think was the top speed?
[1:18:31 - 1:18:32] ▶
Of just conventionally moving?
[1:18:35 - 1:18:37] ▶
I don't think it really had a very high top speed.
[1:18:38 - 1:18:41] ▶
Like, if you had to...
[1:18:44 - 1:18:45] ▶
I mean, it depends on how it was being...
[1:18:46 - 1:18:49] ▶
Because you can maneuver it in a couple different ways.
[1:18:49 - 1:18:53] ▶
So, of course, how would I know?
[1:18:53 - 1:18:58] ▶
I mean, the speed it could attain.
[1:18:58 - 1:19:00] ▶
But I'm just thinking about an Omicron mode where it's just sitting there and moving.
[1:19:01 - 1:19:07] ▶
But you think about...
[1:19:07 - 1:19:08] ▶
At delta, the speed's going to be near infinite.
[1:19:11 - 1:19:14] ▶
It's going to appear somewhere else.
[1:19:14 - 1:19:16] ▶
You think almost close to the speed of light?
[1:19:16 - 1:19:19] ▶
Or it would look like it's hopping across space-time or something?
[1:19:19 - 1:19:21] ▶
No, it'd far exceed the speed of light.
[1:19:21 - 1:19:23] ▶
Yeah, because you're not going in a linear fashion.
[1:19:24 - 1:19:26] ▶
You're just jumping over.
[1:19:26 - 1:19:28] ▶
Because it's bending...
[1:19:29 - 1:19:30] ▶
It's warping space-time itself.
[1:19:30 - 1:19:31] ▶
You know, for a given distance, you'll get, you know, to the destination far faster than
[1:19:32 - 1:19:37] ▶
you would if you were traveling at the speed of light.
[1:19:37 - 1:19:38] ▶
And it's like crunching space-time behind it and then in front of it...
[1:19:38 - 1:19:42] ▶
I don't know what's going on behind it.
[1:19:42 - 1:19:43] ▶
It's like riding a wave or something?
[1:19:43 - 1:19:45] ▶
It's just bending space around it.
[1:19:46 - 1:19:50] ▶
Did you hear anything around pulses involved in the propulsion?
[1:19:50 - 1:19:54] ▶
It's not a continuous...
[1:19:54 - 1:19:56] ▶
I don't know what the maximum range of each jump is.
[1:20:01 - 1:20:03] ▶
But I know it's like a 10 millisecond recycle time in between it.
[1:20:04 - 1:20:08] ▶
So, the craft is always doing this.
[1:20:08 - 1:20:11] ▶
When all three of the amplifiers are being used for travel, they're in the Delta configuration.
[1:20:11 - 1:20:15] ▶
And when only one is being used for travel, it's in the Omicron configuration.
[1:20:16 - 1:20:19] ▶
You guys do an amazing job of depicting the configurations.
[1:20:20 - 1:20:24] ▶
And so, what is Delta exactly?
[1:20:25 - 1:20:26] ▶
Delta is using the three...
[1:20:27 - 1:20:28] ▶
There's three amplifiers, Delta.
[1:20:28 - 1:20:29] ▶
And that's where they all focus together on a destination.
[1:20:30 - 1:20:34] ▶
The craft puts its belly in that direction.
[1:20:35 - 1:20:38] ▶
And that's how it moves.
[1:20:38 - 1:20:39] ▶
The Omicron is where it only uses one...
[1:20:40 - 1:20:43] ▶
...you know, of the emitters...
[1:20:44 - 1:20:46] ▶
...to propel itself.
[1:20:46 - 1:20:47] ▶
Or it's not really propelling itself.
[1:20:47 - 1:20:50] ▶
It's doing the opposite.
[1:20:50 - 1:20:51] ▶
Essentially, you create an indentation in space-time so the craft moves forward.
[1:20:52 - 1:20:58] ▶
Which always gives it...
[1:20:58 - 1:20:59] ▶
If it's operating in Omicron configuration, it's never really stable.
[1:20:59 - 1:21:04] ▶
It's kind of a, you know, somewhat undulating movement.
[1:21:05 - 1:21:11] ▶
It's so interesting.
[1:21:12 - 1:21:13] ▶
And, yeah, it's fascinating.
[1:21:13 - 1:21:16] ▶
That seems to be a common thing.
[1:21:16 - 1:21:18] ▶
The craft's sort of wobbling.
[1:21:18 - 1:21:19] ▶
But when it switches to Delta, as soon as the two other amplifiers come on...
[1:21:21 - 1:21:25] ▶
...online, that thing locks in space and time.
[1:21:26 - 1:21:30] ▶
And then it's, you know, able to focus in any direction and move there instantaneously.
[1:21:31 - 1:21:38] ▶
You're in our mid-century living room set.
[1:21:50 - 1:21:53] ▶
You have Luigi, Vendatelli, Bob Lazar.
[1:21:53 - 1:21:57] ▶
And Logan is a longtime UFO nut.
[1:21:58 - 1:22:02] ▶
And you watch WWE at all?
[1:22:03 - 1:22:05] ▶
He is the guy in WWE right now.
[1:22:06 - 1:22:09] ▶
He has an amazing podcast as well.
[1:22:09 - 1:22:10] ▶
I've known his brother, actually, for like a decade plus.
[1:22:11 - 1:22:13] ▶
Dude, I gotta say, Bob, it is an honor to meet you, man.
[1:22:13 - 1:22:16] ▶
What a privilege to talk to you.
[1:22:17 - 1:22:19] ▶
I don't know if Jesse gave you any context to why I wanted to talk to you.
[1:22:21 - 1:22:25] ▶
But maybe we'll rehash it.
[1:22:26 - 1:22:28] ▶
So, Bob, check this out.
[1:22:30 - 1:22:32] ▶
I have in my possession UFO footage that has a story behind it that is compelling but not convincing.
[1:22:33 - 1:22:43] ▶
And I've been waiting to just do something with this footage or receive confirmation of sorts.
[1:22:43 - 1:22:48] ▶
And I see this particular orange disc sometimes in UFO videos and documentaries.
[1:22:49 - 1:22:55] ▶
It pops up every now and then.
[1:22:55 - 1:22:57] ▶
But when I was watching the trailer for S4 that you guys released, about 80% of the way through the trailer,
[1:22:58 - 1:23:05] ▶
you guys show a disc that is at night but then kind of coats itself in this orange.
[1:23:05 - 1:23:13] ▶
Dude, I paused it there and I said, oh, my God.
[1:23:16 - 1:23:21] ▶
That looks exactly like the footage that I have.
[1:23:21 - 1:23:25] ▶
So, this footage, supposedly authentic, was taken by two college kids who wanted to go to Area 51 in the 90s.
[1:23:25 - 1:23:36] ▶
I believe it was 1995 and filmed their experience of trying to see if they could stumble upon a UFO or just alien activity of sorts.
[1:23:36 - 1:23:45] ▶
Let's break this down.
[1:23:46 - 1:23:48] ▶
A couple of college-age guys drove out to the Black Mailbox, an infamous landmark entrance point to Area 51.
[1:23:48 - 1:23:56] ▶
It's along the road that leads to Groom Lake, extremely close to where Bob said he worked.
[1:23:57 - 1:24:03] ▶
They're parked right in front of the fence surrounding the secret facility.
[1:24:06 - 1:24:10] ▶
The lights are off on their car and they have a camera resting on the armrest pointed through the front windshield.
[1:24:10 - 1:24:16] ▶
And then it cuts to under the dashboard and you see something very clearly illuminating, like, the top of the dashboard.
[1:24:16 - 1:24:25] ▶
And they're, like, hunkered underneath the car and they're whispering to each other, like, I think it's out there.
[1:24:25 - 1:24:30] ▶
Like, I don't know what it is.
[1:24:31 - 1:24:31] ▶
Maybe we should go out there.
[1:24:31 - 1:24:32] ▶
And they're, like, kind of scared.
[1:24:32 - 1:24:34] ▶
Then something appears just beyond the glass.
[1:24:34 - 1:24:45] ▶
The craft is hovering extremely close to the car.
[1:24:51 - 1:24:54] ▶
It's orange and slightly wobbling or undulating in place as if it's on a wave.
[1:24:54 - 1:25:01] ▶
You can hear the two guys whispering.
[1:25:04 - 1:25:06] ▶
That, to me, is exactly how it was described by Bob.
[1:25:30 - 1:25:33] ▶
It's exactly, like, like your hand if your handed this.
[1:25:33 - 1:25:36] ▶
Yeah, it's moving the right way.
[1:25:36 - 1:25:38] ▶
It's the right color.
[1:25:38 - 1:25:39] ▶
And it's the right shape.
[1:25:39 - 1:25:40] ▶
So I, it makes it very compelling.
[1:25:40 - 1:25:43] ▶
the intensity of the light there's something very very bright that is affecting that the dash is
[1:25:43 - 1:25:55] ▶
being lit it's it's the the dash of the vehicle and the craft is above it right and look at the
[1:25:55 - 1:26:00] ▶
intent here's the dash and look at the intensity of the light that's going to happen here right
[1:26:00 - 1:26:04] ▶
whoa there those those are really yeah you can and it's fading in and out yeah you can't fake that
[1:26:04 - 1:26:13] ▶
you can see that it wobbles but it wobbles it wobbles that's the important thing yeah so it
[1:26:13 - 1:26:19] ▶
does comport with your video wobbles it glows like that in that color in that shape that's wild dude
[1:26:19 - 1:26:26] ▶
yeah i mean it's wild it's impressive it is
[1:26:26 - 1:26:30] ▶
the craft emits an orange reddish color which is not a coincidence a craft with strong field
[1:26:30 - 1:26:41] ▶
interactions like the ones that bob alludes to creates an ionized plasma sheath around itself
[1:26:41 - 1:26:48] ▶
the dominant atmospheric gas on earth is nitrogen ionized nitrogen that interacts with plasma
[1:26:48 - 1:26:54] ▶
glows red orange this classic observation of a glowing reddish or orange ball of light
[1:26:54 - 1:27:01] ▶
moving silently and erratically is one of the most commonly reported ufo descriptions across decades
[1:27:01 - 1:27:08] ▶
of sightings worldwide no what did you see that movement no i didn't
[1:27:08 - 1:27:13] ▶
now i know this footage is grainy and while certainly fascinating it's far from conclusive
[1:27:13 - 1:27:23] ▶
but it is another fascinating data point
[1:27:23 - 1:27:26] ▶
what luigi's movie almost definitively vindicates is the existence of s4 remember when bob went public
[1:27:26 - 1:27:41] ▶
in 1989 area 51 itself hadn't even been officially acknowledged by the government and to this day s4's
[1:27:41 - 1:27:50] ▶
existence is still denied it's not supposed to exist but luigi used google earth's historical imagery to
[1:27:50 - 1:27:57] ▶
go back in time and found a 2022 version of the area surrounding s4 that was not yet blurred to obscure
[1:27:57 - 1:28:05] ▶
the site and yet vehicle tracks are visible in these older satellite images you can clearly see the tracks
[1:28:05 - 1:28:13] ▶
look at them going in every direction and you could look at all the the traffic yeah right yeah that's
[1:28:13 - 1:28:19] ▶
not one guy driving around no that's not one guy driving exactly so again there's no public out there
[1:28:19 - 1:28:24] ▶
so what are you doing luigi also shows bob a high quality aerial photograph taken by a pilot roughly 17 miles
[1:28:24 - 1:28:33] ▶
from papoose lake the image had previously circulated online but luigi enhanced the contrast a bit
[1:28:33 - 1:28:40] ▶
to reveal additional details and if you look carefully in this version here where it's the contrast has
[1:28:40 - 1:28:47] ▶
been changed the as we zoom
[1:28:47 - 1:28:50] ▶
look what you see yeah you can start seeing the you see them yeah clearly right there yeah the slanted
[1:28:53 - 1:28:59] ▶
rectangular doors yeah finally and perhaps most damningly the map of papoose lake was literally
[1:28:59 - 1:29:06] ▶
altered eight days after bob lazar went public in his first anonymous video you heard me right they
[1:29:06 - 1:29:13] ▶
changed the map eight days after bob started to speak out and the map was clearly modified in a way
[1:29:13 - 1:29:19] ▶
that would specifically hide the existence of s4 bob went public on may 15th 1989 and he didn't come
[1:29:19 - 1:29:29] ▶
public his name was in public it was him as dennis as in silhouette and and uh and eight days after that
[1:29:29 - 1:29:37] ▶
the united states department of the interior who works on the geological maps of the landscape
[1:29:38 - 1:29:47] ▶
at the test site where it's groom lake papoose lake and the whole nevada test site
[1:29:47 - 1:29:52] ▶
actually modified all the maps there is specifically groom lake and papoose lake and papoose mountain range
[1:29:52 - 1:30:02] ▶
there and there's a stamp on all the modifications because it mod the modification was dated 1989
[1:30:02 - 1:30:09] ▶
so on the actual small print it says maps modified 1989 but the stamp of the exact day
[1:30:10 - 1:30:20] ▶
is may 23rd 1989 exactly eight days after bob went public and specifically they are getting that boost
[1:30:20 - 1:30:31] ▶
lake just papoose lake so they're removing s4 no what they removed what the the specificity there is the
[1:30:31 - 1:30:39] ▶
specific thing they removed is there's a road that leads from groom lake down to papoose lake and as it
[1:30:39 - 1:30:47] ▶
leads down to papoose lake the north end of the lake the road forks off it splits off in two areas
[1:30:47 - 1:30:54] ▶
to the west of papoose lake and to the right of papoose lake where s4 is they specifically removed
[1:30:54 - 1:31:03] ▶
the road to the east of papoose lake and they kept the same one to the west which why would they do that
[1:31:03 - 1:31:11] ▶
why would you suddenly remove the road that goes to s4 and leave everything else and leave everything
[1:31:11 - 1:31:17] ▶
else there yeah i mean that is an amazing discovery yeah and it's there i mean it's not like we're not
[1:31:17 - 1:31:23] ▶
making anything up here i was very specific of like i don't want to put anything that makes us look like
[1:31:23 - 1:31:29] ▶
we're inventing stuff this is verifiable you could order these maps the other thing i think that's
[1:31:29 - 1:31:35] ▶
interesting is for for people doubting the story jeremy corbell and ross colthart found a bunch of
[1:31:35 - 1:31:43] ▶
people who have verified bob's presence at s4 right uh i don't know if i think i think arriving at 51 or
[1:31:43 - 1:31:52] ▶
getting on the bus or something that's right yeah yeah yeah i think they found a bunch george knapp also had
[1:31:52 - 1:31:58] ▶
some people and they got threatened back then and they were told six people that were threatened and and
[1:31:58 - 1:32:05] ▶
basically they never made it for george talks about it in in the interviews we did with him and
[1:32:05 - 1:32:11] ▶
he's talked about it in the past and he says they all received the phone call they were all threatened
[1:32:11 - 1:32:17] ▶
and they never went public and and you know for anybody who's a bob lazard detractor or doesn't believe
[1:32:17 - 1:32:24] ▶
the story you then have to not believe george knapp because why would george lie about that what's his
[1:32:24 - 1:32:32] ▶
what's the benefit here you know and somebody's gonna say well it's because he put his name attached
[1:32:32 - 1:32:37] ▶
to the bob story no not when that was happening he was still investigating the bob story so he said that
[1:32:37 - 1:32:44] ▶
back then it's not like it's new information he was getting a lot of yeah he was getting a lot of
[1:32:44 - 1:32:50] ▶
story back then it was not certainly not a feather just sticking his cap you know it it's it's something i
[1:32:50 - 1:32:56] ▶
i really want to put a lot of emphasis on because of all the haters out there is this happened when
[1:32:56 - 1:33:02] ▶
he came out it was in 1989 it was a different era it was a different time in the world oh yeah yeah so
[1:33:02 - 1:33:11] ▶
you know the people now that think that bob lazar is a grifter or what where i'm a grifter because i'm
[1:33:11 - 1:33:19] ▶
making a movie about this and whatever you know this happened 40 years ago i was interested in ufos
[1:33:19 - 1:33:26] ▶
40 years ago and believe me i was not popular this was the most unpopular topic when it came out it was
[1:33:26 - 1:33:35] ▶
considered to be so don't touch that because it's going to ruin your life so why would first of all why
[1:33:35 - 1:33:44] ▶
would bob lazar do that and then why would george knapp a respected investigative journalist in las
[1:33:44 - 1:33:52] ▶
vegas who already was well known and had a good job why would he hang his his reputation and ruin his
[1:33:52 - 1:34:02] ▶
entire career just to support another law another liar like it doesn't make any sense to me no no it
[1:34:02 - 1:34:09] ▶
really so you know let's not forget those yeah and he has multiple peabody's he's
[1:34:09 - 1:34:14] ▶
well respected exactly as you said outside of ufos yeah yeah did you learn any other details about
[1:34:14 - 1:34:20] ▶
the guy that had died that you were replacing yeah they had an operating reactor so apparently which is
[1:34:20 - 1:34:28] ▶
also brings up all kinds of other questions to me um apparently the reactors and all the craft are
[1:34:29 - 1:34:34] ▶
exactly the same so that makes me think of a manufacturing facility yeah that's like a ford making an engine and
[1:34:34 - 1:34:43] ▶
that goes in you know a bunch of different models how can all these crafts have the same
[1:34:43 - 1:34:48] ▶
you know the same power system or propulsion system in them um anyway i don't want to go off on a tangent
[1:34:49 - 1:34:57] ▶
but he had a reactor so it was probably from some one of the other crafts and why they did this is beyond me
[1:34:57 - 1:35:05] ▶
they took it out to the nuclear test site and they physically cut into it while it was running under load
[1:35:05 - 1:35:14] ▶
and it exploded and all i think there were three guys there maybe more they were all killed
[1:35:14 - 1:35:20] ▶
so number one why would you do that number number two it makes me think either they were extremely desperate
[1:35:23 - 1:35:32] ▶
and want to just well find out what's in there and you know and uh why would you even do it while it
[1:35:32 - 1:35:40] ▶
was operating or extremely confident that they knew what was going on in the reactor where they could
[1:35:40 - 1:35:47] ▶
safely cut it and they had a reason to get in there um but apparently that information never made it back
[1:35:47 - 1:35:56] ▶
whatever they gleaned from it or even their suspicions at the beginning because barry and i were kind of
[1:35:56 - 1:36:01] ▶
starting from the beginning on the reactor uh so everything they had done previously was lost
[1:36:01 - 1:36:09] ▶
anyway you ever learn the guy's name or any details about do you does barry have a last name or yeah
[1:36:12 - 1:36:18] ▶
barry castiglio it's spelled castiglio but okay steel i don't know how it's pronounced yeah have you ever
[1:36:18 - 1:36:26] ▶
tracked him down after i i think briefly decades ago we made a real because there was another guy
[1:36:26 - 1:36:33] ▶
that would come in and out once in a while named renee okay don't remember his last name but i mean at
[1:36:33 - 1:36:41] ▶
at some point i really put a lot of effort into trying to find dennis mariani and barry and uh i think
[1:36:41 - 1:36:47] ▶
some people did track down dennis i think he died not too long ago okay um i don't know about barry but
[1:36:47 - 1:36:55] ▶
uh i never was never able to find it because i mean back in the time i was looking for him there was no
[1:36:55 - 1:37:00] ▶
internet sure you know so you had to go through public records and stuff yeah uh it was much more
[1:37:00 - 1:37:06] ▶
difficult than it is now yeah and i know of one instance in which the name dennis mariani was
[1:37:06 - 1:37:11] ▶
corroborated by somebody at you know uh nevada test site and so um you know i won't i won't go
[1:37:11 - 1:37:19] ▶
further than that but uh because it's not right it's not my thing to tell but you're you're giving
[1:37:19 - 1:37:26] ▶
names and you know i think some of these people could still be alive which is pretty yeah remarkable
[1:37:26 - 1:37:31] ▶
too like maybe we could track some of them down and they could back you up i wonder i mean they have
[1:37:31 - 1:37:36] ▶
to know i'm kind of wondering why nobody else came out you know yeah um i mean although barry wouldn't
[1:37:36 - 1:37:46] ▶
talk about it much you know um there are times i kind of mentioned you know holy cow can you believe
[1:37:46 - 1:37:54] ▶
this is being kept secret and he goes i it sucks i know yeah so he didn't think it was you know he
[1:37:54 - 1:38:02] ▶
wasn't with the program as far as keeping this from you know the entire world what was his background
[1:38:02 - 1:38:07] ▶
no idea okay no idea um but there was kind of a collegial good will between you and yeah yeah yeah
[1:38:07 - 1:38:15] ▶
and he'd goof around sometimes which was nice because everything else was just so rigid and military so
[1:38:15 - 1:38:23] ▶
you know i'm sure it's a story where he threw the golf ball at the reactor and you know sometimes we'd
[1:38:23 - 1:38:30] ▶
just start talking about stupid stuff so it was it's good to see a normal person you know that just
[1:38:30 - 1:38:36] ▶
acted like you know a human instead of a robot what happened when he threw the golf ball at the reactor
[1:38:36 - 1:38:43] ▶
he was showing me the field on it and he said check this out and took a golf ball and you know
[1:38:43 - 1:38:49] ▶
intending to hit the reactor and instead it bounced off the field and then hit a ceiling tile which
[1:38:49 - 1:38:55] ▶
dislodged it and made all the little particles you know come down and we knew dennis was going to be
[1:38:55 - 1:39:01] ▶
coming back in two minutes so it was you know red alert we had to you know grab the stools and go up
[1:39:01 - 1:39:07] ▶
and re-ascending clean it up and everything and and you know shortly after that dennis walks in
[1:39:07 - 1:39:12] ▶
what's you know what's going on nothing nothing you know we're working like we should be you know so
[1:39:12 - 1:39:19] ▶
i mean this is a remarkable detail around the reactor you have this sort of force field like
[1:39:21 - 1:39:26] ▶
thing this like repelling force yeah yeah once the uh a hemisphere on top of a plate you know about the
[1:39:26 - 1:39:33] ▶
size of a basketball maybe a little bigger on top of a 15 inch square plate um hemisphere is removable
[1:39:33 - 1:39:41] ▶
once the hemisphere is put back on um if the emitter is in the right position the reactor will turn on
[1:39:41 - 1:39:49] ▶
immediately and it'll produce a gravitational field around it and you can push on it and you you can't
[1:39:49 - 1:39:56] ▶
you can't touch the reactor from that point i mean it and it it's somewhat elastic you know like if you
[1:39:57 - 1:40:04] ▶
have two light poles of a magnet pushing them together you get that it's the exact same feel but without
[1:40:04 - 1:40:09] ▶
metal it's just your hands but as i said before what what's really interesting is you know you can
[1:40:09 - 1:40:17] ▶
move the reactor on the table and once you turn it on and you're pushing on the field the reactor doesn't
[1:40:17 - 1:40:26] ▶
slide so it's not transferring the force to the reactor it's pushing your hand away but so that's it's
[1:40:26 - 1:40:36] ▶
really interesting to me how did the reactor work this is all guess this is just all guesswork yes um
[1:40:36 - 1:40:45] ▶
it has a super heavy element in it which appeared to be 115 on the periodic chart
[1:40:46 - 1:40:52] ▶
uh there's a little tower in it and from x-rays we could see that there's a loop around the base plate
[1:40:53 - 1:41:01] ▶
so it was theorized apparently barry with his other lab partner they thought that was a uh cyclotron
[1:41:01 - 1:41:10] ▶
an accelerator and that the tube that came up the side was an off-ramp essentially and that particle
[1:41:10 - 1:41:19] ▶
or whatever was being accelerated interacts with the 115 and somehow that produces the gravitational field
[1:41:19 - 1:41:26] ▶
how did it feel on your hand it it felt exactly like pushing magnets together okay it was just
[1:41:26 - 1:41:37] ▶
elastic i mean it was compressible to some degree and then when it got close to it you're nothing is
[1:41:37 - 1:41:44] ▶
getting past that with magnets you have to have like poles for them to repel yeah and in this case
[1:41:44 - 1:41:51] ▶
you're not you know it's just matter repelling matter yeah it's so without polarity does it feel like a
[1:41:51 - 1:41:58] ▶
what does it feel like does it is there a texture to it or no it's just it's just elastic but it it
[1:41:59 - 1:42:06] ▶
it becomes it's not linear but does it feel like it's logarithmic you know it's it's easy to push and
[1:42:06 - 1:42:13] ▶
then it becomes impossible there's no way you're getting past the next three inches you could probably
[1:42:13 - 1:42:18] ▶
sit a car on top of it and nothing would change does it feel like saran wrap or does it feel like
[1:42:18 - 1:42:26] ▶
like what what does it feel like when you're in it does it feel like no it just feels it's literally
[1:42:26 - 1:42:34] ▶
like air like yeah i i see what you're saying you know what i mean describe that yeah like is there a
[1:42:34 - 1:42:41] ▶
no it just a coolness a heat uh it's just like space time itself yeah it's just i don't know how
[1:42:41 - 1:42:52] ▶
to describe it sure yeah but it's it's just there
[1:42:52 - 1:42:54] ▶
i mean at this point i don't i don't even think it's gravity what i think this is an another completely
[1:43:01 - 1:43:07] ▶
unique force it doesn't behave enough like gravity and explain why it's so different like i mean
[1:43:07 - 1:43:15] ▶
because at least my thoughts at this point are i think gravity is just a property of matter and it's
[1:43:15 - 1:43:22] ▶
only an attractive force i'm not sure you can have anti-gravity um like if it was gravity you know at one
[1:43:22 - 1:43:31] ▶
point barry showed me he had one of the emitters it working he put a lit little kitchen candle right
[1:43:31 - 1:43:39] ▶
at the focal point and he powered up the the reactor and the flame stopped flickering it stood
[1:43:39 - 1:43:46] ▶
there frozen in space and time but i could see the light from the candle the flame was still visible
[1:43:46 - 1:43:54] ▶
also he removed the candle and then rotated the emitter i don't know if it was another direction
[1:43:54 - 1:44:02] ▶
or more of the same way but it made a little black ball in the air where no light was a sky escaping
[1:44:02 - 1:44:08] ▶
looking like a little black hole but no you could just tell there was no light at the focal point
[1:44:08 - 1:44:14] ▶
right in the air it was just a dark area so there it's affecting light but it wasn't in the candle test
[1:44:14 - 1:44:22] ▶
before that so it it it's a really unusual unusual thing
[1:44:22 - 1:44:28] ▶
when bob mentioned this anomalous force coming from the craft's emitter i immediately racked my brain
[1:44:31 - 1:44:37] ▶
for anyone in conventional aerospace circles who talks about something similar and then i realized i
[1:44:37 - 1:44:44] ▶
just interviewed the lead electrostatic scientist at nasa dr charles buehler who talks about something
[1:44:44 - 1:44:50] ▶
very similar okay where the heck is this energy coming from because if i was to stick this in
[1:44:50 - 1:44:55] ▶
space it would accelerate with the power off that's a problem
[1:44:55 - 1:45:00] ▶
you see there's a long lineage of people studying gravity control or anti-gravity in the united states
[1:45:03 - 1:45:09] ▶
perhaps my favorite example is mid-century inventor thomas townsend brown who discovered that when you
[1:45:09 - 1:45:16] ▶
apply a high voltage to certain asymmetric capacitors they produce thrust that's right propulsion with
[1:45:16 - 1:45:23] ▶
no fuel no exhaust no propellant just electricity as the input converted directly into motion a new
[1:45:23 - 1:45:31] ▶
model for space propulsion that could eliminate crude chemical combustion rockets forever now you might
[1:45:31 - 1:45:39] ▶
think that's insane and defies newton's laws and i'll spare you all of the corroborating research that
[1:45:39 - 1:45:44] ▶
i've dug up showing that brown made real breakthroughs in the world of anti-gravity
[1:45:44 - 1:45:49] ▶
dr charles buehler at nasa has taken brown's experiments to the next level with modern instruments
[1:45:50 - 1:45:57] ▶
more rigorous controls we see about 0.1 grams that corresponds to about one millinewton of thrust
[1:45:57 - 1:46:03] ▶
and decades of electrostatics expertise from his work at kennedy space center behind him he's done over
[1:46:03 - 1:46:09] ▶
2 000 of these experiments and controlled for just about every variable you can think of and he's
[1:46:09 - 1:46:16] ▶
also getting millinewtons of thrust basically real propulsion with electricity as the sole input and
[1:46:16 - 1:46:22] ▶
you can't really argue with his authority to make these claims the man literally runs electrostatics at
[1:46:22 - 1:46:28] ▶
nasa he's the incoming president of the american electrostatic society and he's contributed two
[1:46:28 - 1:46:35] ▶
fundamental principles to the field of electrostatics that are now widely accepted so this is kind of an
[1:46:35 - 1:46:42] ▶
interesting moment in history because we have a man who reverse engineered ufos and then we have a nasa
[1:46:42 - 1:46:49] ▶
lead electrostatic scientist so i thought i'd just leave it to you guys to kind of nerd out yeah well
[1:46:49 - 1:46:55] ▶
first of all hi charles hi bob this is a very exciting moment for me i'm a big fan now the thing about bob
[1:46:55 - 1:47:02] ▶
lazar is he kind of exists on an island we've never seen him interact with other highly credentialed
[1:47:02 - 1:47:08] ▶
engineers in aerospace and what i've learned after spending time with him is he's actually pretty
[1:47:08 - 1:47:14] ▶
skeptical when it comes to other scientific anomalies man i'm real interested to hear you know your
[1:47:14 - 1:47:21] ▶
physical experiment setup it is it is it a hybrid of your idea and tt brown's or is it are you just
[1:47:21 - 1:47:28] ▶
duplicating one of his experiments i mean what can you explain to me what it looks like what's your
[1:47:28 - 1:47:34] ▶
test setup look like gosh there's 2 000 variations i'll try to do my best i mean how how is this you
[1:47:34 - 1:47:44] ▶
i'm sure you've seen the lifter ion motors and stuff along those lines how is it different from those a
[1:47:44 - 1:47:52] ▶
a few ways um the ion thrusters obviously use ions in air to give them momentum oscillation what's
[1:47:52 - 1:48:00] ▶
interesting about this force um even though it's sort of the same geometry can be used
[1:48:00 - 1:48:07] ▶
uh but at high vacuum you'll get the thrust but it's always in the opposite direction of the
[1:48:07 - 1:48:12] ▶
ion thrusters which is really cool because what happens is you have a sharp electrode in the ground
[1:48:12 - 1:48:16] ▶
plane however you do that you can come up with a million ways to do that in air when you do that
[1:48:16 - 1:48:21] ▶
you'll break down the gases either corona or some fold like that um in vacuum we can actually see
[1:48:21 - 1:48:28] ▶
uh these forces arise but they're always in the opposite direction of the ion wind which is really
[1:48:29 - 1:48:33] ▶
interesting that is very interesting the same direction as the rocket exhaust you never think
[1:48:33 - 1:48:38] ▶
of that that's what so it really messes with you so that's what's interesting about it that's one main
[1:48:38 - 1:48:42] ▶
difference wow yeah that well that's really interesting i mean it that the fact that it's in the
[1:48:42 - 1:48:48] ▶
opposite direction of uh an ion where an ion thruster would be and you've done it in a hard or reasonably
[1:48:48 - 1:48:54] ▶
hard vacuum and you're getting measurable thrust oh we have we've been doing that since 2020 so the
[1:48:54 - 1:49:01] ▶
last six years we test almost every day probably every other day uh different configurations or zero in on
[1:49:01 - 1:49:07] ▶
a configuration test another concept uh and that is an ongoing iterative process so yes we have tested
[1:49:07 - 1:49:15] ▶
high vacuum 10 to minus six or better champion get up to 10 to minus seven but enough to prove to us that
[1:49:15 - 1:49:20] ▶
there's no ion wind what kind of thrust in newtons or grams are you getting well we're we're still
[1:49:20 - 1:49:26] ▶
playing around in the hundreds of micro newtons or millinuton ranges so i think the highest we've gotten is
[1:49:26 - 1:49:32] ▶
probably up to the 50 millinuton mark um but that's when we stack these together we don't learn a lot from
[1:49:32 - 1:49:39] ▶
them when we do that other than we can make more thrust which is important um but we like to
[1:49:39 - 1:49:44] ▶
understand the thrust density if you will of each thruster so we're trying to optimize each type um
[1:49:44 - 1:49:51] ▶
optimize each parameter space that we have access to before we can get to larger chambers or outer space
[1:49:51 - 1:49:57] ▶
to test the mega structures physically how big are these thrusters oh they're not very big um they're
[1:49:57 - 1:50:04] ▶
about six inches maybe six by six roughly okay that range it's a nice size you know we can make
[1:50:04 - 1:50:09] ▶
them bigger but we don't gain anything by that um we just try to keep them manageable so that we can
[1:50:09 - 1:50:15] ▶
you know do different things with them you know stack them um try different voltages and then we try to
[1:50:15 - 1:50:21] ▶
measure the currents we make sure that in many cases there's there is no current which is very odd
[1:50:21 - 1:50:26] ▶
yeah i would say isn't that interesting yeah i'd say turn the turn the power source off and it keeps going
[1:50:28 - 1:50:34] ▶
wait what yeah it is very annoying that in some cases when we trap the charge in there that's all
[1:50:34 - 1:50:41] ▶
that's required so that really eliminates a lot of things so i'll a physically larger one doesn't get
[1:50:41 - 1:50:48] ▶
you any more thrust but you can stack them and get increased thrust well the physically large one will
[1:50:48 - 1:50:53] ▶
but we won't learn anything from it you know we can do eight inches or ten inches which we have
[1:50:53 - 1:50:58] ▶
but we're not learning anything from we want to learn you know what is the best geometry
[1:50:59 - 1:51:03] ▶
shape we want to optimize we know area is one of the ways that will be optimized later we'll sort
[1:51:03 - 1:51:08] ▶
of space but on ground test particles we're kind of fixed by the geometry of our chamber
[1:51:08 - 1:51:14] ▶
once we get some funding here we do drew does have almost a walk-in size chamber in his garage you can
[1:51:15 - 1:51:20] ▶
walk in it when that comes online in a few months then we can test much larger versions of it so the
[1:51:20 - 1:51:28] ▶
thrust does depend on the area it does depend on the volume it does depend on the voltages the
[1:51:28 - 1:51:33] ▶
typical things you would expect you know but you could try to optimize it as much as we can with the
[1:51:33 - 1:51:40] ▶
chamber we have actively running right now how much how much are you charging them up to what kind of
[1:51:40 - 1:51:46] ▶
voltage are you using well when we started in 20 2016 it was at the towns and brown level 150 000
[1:51:46 - 1:51:54] ▶
yeah okay yeah uh thank goodness we're not anywhere near that now i think we're we're operating right
[1:51:54 - 1:52:01] ▶
now about 400 volts you're at 400 volts yeah so he his belief is that it's um really brown thought that
[1:52:01 - 1:52:09] ▶
the voltage range was you know the the thing causing the thrust but charles's belief is that that's sort
[1:52:09 - 1:52:16] ▶
of a proxy for electric field strength and there are obviously other ways to amplify electric field
[1:52:16 - 1:52:20] ▶
strength that lower voltages and so he's using 400 volts yeah but i can't it's shocking you're getting
[1:52:20 - 1:52:27] ▶
millinewtons that's unbelievable man i want to come over and hang out with you
[1:52:27 - 1:52:34] ▶
i can introduce you guys put your hands on it do whatever you like you're more than welcome isn't that
[1:52:36 - 1:52:40] ▶
exciting yeah i can't believe you're getting these results and i can't get past the 400 volts either
[1:52:40 - 1:52:47] ▶
if you increase the voltage you don't see any change in thrust or oh you'll get more thrust for
[1:52:47 - 1:52:53] ▶
sure we'd like to stay you know 200 volts 500 volts we'd like to stay low if we can okay yeah it's a
[1:52:53 - 1:53:01] ▶
preference i mean we all average we'll test up to 225 volts and start worrying about breakdown
[1:53:01 - 1:53:07] ▶
when you get more about you know about that because these systems are getting much much smaller so we don't
[1:53:08 - 1:53:12] ▶
have access to the higher fields anymore it's material properties that we have to deal with
[1:53:12 - 1:53:17] ▶
but but we like the two 300 volts it it gets rid of other nuances like uh corona wind or anything like
[1:53:17 - 1:53:26] ▶
that right right yeah all that stuff gets tossed out yeah you're not even ionizing the air no it's
[1:53:26 - 1:53:32] ▶
nothing i mean it's nothing that that's that's why i was so shocked because all those other effects drop
[1:53:32 - 1:53:38] ▶
out right as soon as you drop the voltage down that low and you can i get you can get some cleaner data
[1:53:38 - 1:53:44] ▶
then that's damn this is really cool we're converting bob on townsend brown yeah
[1:53:44 - 1:53:49] ▶
well yeah thank you for this really appreciate it man good to meet you good to meet you too
[1:53:52 - 1:53:57] ▶
take care guys take care that's that's really fascinating isn't that wild yeah it's a little more
[1:53:57 - 1:54:05] ▶
than just wild i know right yeah it is i mean that's that's significant i think so it could really
[1:54:05 - 1:54:13] ▶
be significant you know the thing is the first thing i would i would point out there's something
[1:54:13 - 1:54:17] ▶
wrong with your tests but not in 1500 tests no you know you know when you've gone through it that many
[1:54:17 - 1:54:25] ▶
times and have done it for this long boy and you've adjusted all the you know potential parameters and fallouts to
[1:54:25 - 1:54:33] ▶
uh no i can't yeah i know yeah i you you got to assume there's that the thing's working but you
[1:54:33 - 1:54:42] ▶
also you mentioned dc voltage in the craft and that was yeah that's also a townsend brown that is high dc
[1:54:42 - 1:54:49] ▶
yeah it's not just high dc voltage i even mentioned it on uh you know joe rogan that i i think the material
[1:54:49 - 1:54:56] ▶
the craft is made from is an electric and so it always just like a a magnet always has a magnetic
[1:54:56 - 1:55:04] ▶
field to it an electric always has an electrostatic field to it interesting and i think i think that's
[1:55:04 - 1:55:11] ▶
certainly something important were there high climb rates to the voltage likely you know what i mean like
[1:55:11 - 1:55:18] ▶
really high climb like like like fast you know swinging up in voltage oh yeah i'm without a doubt it's so
[1:55:18 - 1:55:25] ▶
fascinating because it's literally all the towns and brown stuff it's like fast high dc voltage yeah
[1:55:25 - 1:55:29] ▶
like fast yeah you know well i wonder if that really applies to the craft more than i was giving
[1:55:29 - 1:55:35] ▶
it credit for i think it does especially after your conversation with bueller yeah yeah i mean now that's
[1:55:35 - 1:55:39] ▶
making me wonder it could very well be again because of the high voltage on the craft and it's dc yeah
[1:55:39 - 1:55:46] ▶
so there's no magnetic field interference yeah right man that's we're making progress live here
[1:55:46 - 1:55:53] ▶
and he might have been so far past this already but uh well the funny thing about brown is he was
[1:55:53 - 1:55:59] ▶
looking for a power source that was nuclear for like the rest of his career oh he figured out the
[1:55:59 - 1:56:04] ▶
electric avitics and then he called it the flame jet boy that would have been the guy to have there
[1:56:04 - 1:56:07] ▶
other than me um well i mean you and him i just no no you don't get walked off set no you and him
[1:56:07 - 1:56:13] ▶
would be i just get in the way but um yeah he'd be the guy to have there and you were given some
[1:56:13 - 1:56:22] ▶
theories like there being two gravities gravity a and gravity b was that in the briefing documents
[1:56:22 - 1:56:28] ▶
or was this told to you actually that's i think that was part of uh what barry barry had
[1:56:28 - 1:56:35] ▶
um other lab notes and i don't know if those were previous doc or documents that he had but there
[1:56:35 - 1:56:43] ▶
were lab notes and these this was the direction they were going in at one time
[1:56:43 - 1:56:49] ▶
there are two specific different types of gravity gravity a and gravity b gravity a works on a smaller
[1:56:54 - 1:57:01] ▶
micro scale while gravity b works on a larger macro scale gravity a is what is currently being
[1:57:01 - 1:57:08] ▶
labeled as the strong nuclear force in mainstream physics and gravity a is the wave that you need
[1:57:08 - 1:57:13] ▶
to access and amplify and to enable you to cause space-time distortion for interstellar travel gravity
[1:57:13 - 1:57:19] ▶
b is cosmo is like cosmological scale and gravity a is like subatomic scale apparently apparently which
[1:57:19 - 1:57:27] ▶
it is really interesting because i know i remember you're like kind of og science tutorial we were
[1:57:27 - 1:57:32] ▶
texting about it yeah the uh the uh the excerpts from the government bible yeah original tape that
[1:57:32 - 1:57:38] ▶
you did and it's it's amazing so it's it sounds like this new the kind of gravity a is like basically
[1:57:38 - 1:57:45] ▶
the perimeter of the the atom or the what you're dealing with but so you have to scale again i'm just
[1:57:45 - 1:57:51] ▶
repeating stuff that i was told it's not like i conducted an experiment to verify that so but it
[1:57:51 - 1:57:59] ▶
is almost the solution to what has been keeping physics stuck for so long yeah possibly quantize
[1:57:59 - 1:58:05] ▶
gravity right right possibly that's so possibly if in fact that's gravity have you ever you know
[1:58:05 - 1:58:10] ▶
talking about this but um gravity like fields and i want to give this to you because you can make sense
[1:58:10 - 1:58:15] ▶
of it more than me and um we're talking about this last time oh this is this guy burkhard heim have
[1:58:15 - 1:58:21] ▶
you ever heard that name i've heard the name but i don't know anything about him so he at the age of 19
[1:58:21 - 1:58:27] ▶
um became deaf and blind due to an explosion and he was a german and he ended up moving over to the us
[1:58:28 - 1:58:36] ▶
and working for lockheed martin in the 50s and was renowned as just a total genius and he had a really
[1:58:36 - 1:58:42] ▶
interesting uh theory of gravity which involved i guess two gravitational fields and like some of
[1:58:42 - 1:58:49] ▶
these like sub components of gravity i wrote this down because it's honestly beyond my pay grade
[1:58:49 - 1:58:55] ▶
gravity breaks down big and small scale so it could be gravity a and gravity b specifically standard
[1:58:55 - 1:59:01] ▶
gravity g is the tensor summation of three gravitational components g g which g big g little g which is
[1:59:01 - 1:59:09] ▶
scalar gravity propagated by the graviton g by the graviton so he's going with gravitons for that okay g gp
[1:59:09 - 1:59:17] ▶
dark energy slash matter propagated by the gravity gravito photon and gq vacuum field a repulsive force
[1:59:17 - 1:59:24] ▶
propagated by the quintessence particle so in addition to the standard four forces gravity electromagnetism strong
[1:59:24 - 1:59:31] ▶
nuclear and weak nuclear eht which is extended heim theory which is named after him adds two previously
[1:59:31 - 1:59:38] ▶
unrecognized gravitational forces which brings us to six fundamental forces wow and what i find
[1:59:38 - 1:59:45] ▶
interesting about that is there's a amy eskridge is this anti-gravity researcher who actually died under
[1:59:45 - 1:59:52] ▶
very mysterious circumstances and she apparently was at the end of her life kept talking about a sixth
[1:59:52 - 1:59:57] ▶
force that was like a sixth force six force yeah the sixth force is anti-gravity that's what my group has a
[1:59:57 - 2:00:03] ▶
mathematical equation to physically describe we have six force on lockdown and so i wonder about
[2:00:03 - 2:00:09] ▶
you know this book and there's these two guys in in germany who are very high conviction in this
[2:00:10 - 2:00:15] ▶
extended time i'd like to read it well it's yours well thanks
[2:00:15 - 2:00:19] ▶
oh that's really interesting isn't it interesting yeah i i'm also on that i think it it was not gravity i
[2:00:22 - 2:00:31] ▶
don't think it is i don't think it's gravity yeah it's something else something else yeah something
[2:00:31 - 2:00:36] ▶
else yeah yeah because if it were right if it were gravity well that you'd normally see it's a little
[2:00:36 - 2:00:42] ▶
black hole a little gravitational source you just see everything getting sucked into it no matter what
[2:00:42 - 2:00:47] ▶
other things would have acted differently too yeah light light lensing and yeah yeah so it's it almost
[2:00:48 - 2:00:55] ▶
feels like it almost has to be it almost has to be um it's almost like it had rude access to reality
[2:00:55 - 2:01:03] ▶
itself like it froze time yeah but if it froze time how come the photons were still coming out of it
[2:01:03 - 2:01:11] ▶
i you see a glowing candle it should be dark can it can it freeze time in some local space but still
[2:01:11 - 2:01:20] ▶
confine it still the photons are flying out yeah or maybe and and if you say well it doesn't affect
[2:01:20 - 2:01:26] ▶
photons how come it made the black little ball so what do you what so have you where do you think
[2:01:26 - 2:01:32] ▶
would you have a best candidate for what it is no hmm there there is no that's why i think i mean i lean
[2:01:32 - 2:01:41] ▶
towards this is this is another force and just stop calling it gravity but do you think it's what barry said
[2:01:41 - 2:01:48] ▶
the only thing we know that does this is gravity so we're calling it a gravity generator
[2:01:48 - 2:01:54] ▶
okay and then and it's and it's being created ostensibly due to this proton bombardment of element
[2:01:55 - 2:02:05] ▶
115 and then possibly you get 116 and then you get a decay and then if in fact all that's occurring yes
[2:02:05 - 2:02:11] ▶
yeah oh it's so interesting i mean don't forget that in the film we did not include the mechanical
[2:02:11 - 2:02:18] ▶
watch experiment that was also conducted in the lab so there was the candle the black ball and the
[2:02:18 - 2:02:24] ▶
mechanical watch we didn't put it in there just because we wanted to shorten the film but there's
[2:02:24 - 2:02:30] ▶
there was another experiment bob remember and there was like a mechanical watch that just stopped yeah yeah
[2:02:30 - 2:02:35] ▶
yeah i mean that's another indicator where bob said just like that i mean it's kind of similar to the
[2:02:35 - 2:02:43] ▶
candle it just stopped but i could still see it yeah it's like it's freezing it's time it's freezing
[2:02:43 - 2:02:52] ▶
movement freezing movement but not affecting anything else there's nothing that just freezes a move no it
[2:02:52 - 2:02:57] ▶
doesn't but that is really time is so weird because we we only think that inhibits kinetic energy
[2:02:57 - 2:03:04] ▶
right which would be that would be really weird well it's so weird especially given all the forms of
[2:03:04 - 2:03:11] ▶
possible kinetic energy you're talking about a a watch a mechanical watch and a flame are very different
[2:03:11 - 2:03:16] ▶
things yeah so that's so strange while you were there did you tell anybody what you were working on
[2:03:16 - 2:03:23] ▶
you know your your wife at the time no anybody you told gene huff yeah okay i told john lear too yeah and
[2:03:24 - 2:03:32] ▶
you even brought them to yeah oh yeah to see the test yeah because i had the test flight schedule
[2:03:32 - 2:03:38] ▶
yep so i know it's a wednesday night yeah we're going out there and you guys are going to see it this is
[2:03:38 - 2:03:44] ▶
john lear and today is march 22nd 1989 we're standing just about uh eight miles due east of groom lake nevada
[2:03:44 - 2:03:53] ▶
the super government uh secret test site and just a few minutes ago we saw one of the government uh
[2:03:53 - 2:03:58] ▶
uh extraterrestrial ufos fly over there we all watched it for about uh seven or eight minutes
[2:03:58 - 2:04:05] ▶
right here i have my celestron scope uh it's eight uh inches and i had uh i had it focused in for about
[2:04:05 - 2:04:12] ▶
15 seconds and saw for myself that in fact it was a disc um there there isn't much to see with the camera
[2:04:12 - 2:04:19] ▶
back in at that day and that was while you were working at s4 you showed them that or was it afterwards
[2:04:19 - 2:04:27] ▶
that was boy that's a tough question that was while i was working there okay yeah when you saw
[2:04:27 - 2:04:35] ▶
the ufo with gene huff and john lear and you you kind of you know took them what was it to the little
[2:04:35 - 2:04:42] ▶
mesa was a mesa or no uh it was right outside it was uh yeah before you know before you get to the black
[2:04:42 - 2:04:51] ▶
mailbox you know the reason anybody knew about the black mailbox everybody wanted to know where the
[2:04:51 - 2:04:57] ▶
road was that we turned down when you come up the highway it's this first dirt road you go down but
[2:04:57 - 2:05:03] ▶
there's no landmarks around there and if you keep going like another mile or two there's a black
[2:05:03 - 2:05:09] ▶
mailbox so i just said it's around the black mailbox yeah and that just got repeated and everybody thought
[2:05:09 - 2:05:17] ▶
it's a black black black mailbox road is where it is it's not anywhere near where it is when when
[2:05:17 - 2:05:22] ▶
when all you guys went up there and you saw the ufo fly and i'm sure they were just totally shocked
[2:05:22 - 2:05:28] ▶
were you allowed back at s4 after that yeah that well the yeah the first time they didn't know we were
[2:05:29 - 2:05:35] ▶
out there oh they didn't know yeah yeah we only got caught the last time okay so they get and then i
[2:05:35 - 2:05:41] ▶
would never have let me back so after the last time you weren't let back there right that was it
[2:05:41 - 2:05:47] ▶
that was absolutely yeah you were finished no they're not gonna come on back it's no no yeah
[2:05:47 - 2:05:53] ▶
yeah yeah they were pretty pissed yeah why did you decide to come out and approach i don't know because
[2:05:53 - 2:06:01] ▶
like i was still getting followed there was always somebody parked outside my house and i was starting to
[2:06:01 - 2:06:07] ▶
get scared and i i you know i think that's when i first started telling gene i said you know hey if all
[2:06:07 - 2:06:14] ▶
of a sudden they disappear you know i'm working out at the site there and eventually i told him
[2:06:14 - 2:06:19] ▶
he said why are you working on secret weapons or something i said no i'm working on this and you
[2:06:19 - 2:06:25] ▶
know kind of told him but um i don't know i'm just getting concerned about what's going on why do you
[2:06:25 - 2:06:32] ▶
think they were following you i don't know it might just be normal security did you take anything from the lab
[2:06:32 - 2:06:38] ▶
well not at that time okay okay later but that's interesting that they were we'll file that away
[2:06:38 - 2:06:49] ▶
but it's interesting that um they were following you as if you had done something wrong when you
[2:06:49 - 2:06:55] ▶
were just showing up to work no but i mean you know they were still doing
[2:06:55 - 2:06:59] ▶
they allowed me in there and they were still progressing on my clearance they were still going
[2:07:02 - 2:07:06] ▶
through background checks and but they really wanted me on site operating quickly and they
[2:07:06 - 2:07:13] ▶
kind of let that slide because i've had clearance before so you know but um i yeah they were looking
[2:07:13 - 2:07:20] ▶
at some other things too got it that concerned them about you personally about my relationship okay
[2:07:20 - 2:07:27] ▶
got it and so and then they were digging into that that's kind of yeah you know you have to have
[2:07:28 - 2:07:33] ▶
a stable family background if you're gonna be you know playing around with state secrets and stuff
[2:07:33 - 2:07:39] ▶
like that sure they don't want you being crazy they don't want you drinking they're gonna be checking
[2:07:39 - 2:07:43] ▶
out you know how you play with friends if you were going to rages i want to make sure yeah you know
[2:07:43 - 2:07:49] ▶
your wife isn't running around and they don't want any stress or any anything to but then at that point
[2:07:49 - 2:07:56] ▶
if you see these like you know black cars parked outside your house why isn't your reaction okay i'm just
[2:07:56 - 2:08:02] ▶
gonna kind of eat it like they're gonna like you know give me like a colonoscopy as far as like you
[2:08:02 - 2:08:07] ▶
know literally like knowing 360 everything about my life but i'll be able to retain my job at s4
[2:08:07 - 2:08:15] ▶
or do you just you get scared and you're like i gotta i gotta come out i guess it's um i i don't
[2:08:15 - 2:08:20] ▶
really remember how i felt back then but i i was just getting a little concerned yeah and uh did
[2:08:20 - 2:08:26] ▶
i think it couldn't hurt to at least tell one person you know so did you want because uh john lear
[2:08:26 - 2:08:35] ▶
gave the files on you to george knapp right a klas is that how it went down or gave the files on me or
[2:08:35 - 2:08:44] ▶
gave the like um said like you know hey yeah i mean yeah john lear is the one that contacted george
[2:08:44 - 2:08:53] ▶
knapp and said you should speak to this guy okay so he played kind of intermediate did was he
[2:08:53 - 2:08:58] ▶
going rogue on his own or did you say hey can you contact you know george or somebody in the local
[2:08:59 - 2:09:05] ▶
news to help me get this stuff out no i think i mean at that well things were starting to get weird and um
[2:09:05 - 2:09:13] ▶
uh i i don't really remember how that went down but i think you know george said look you gotta
[2:09:16 - 2:09:21] ▶
you gotta get the information out publicly because that's the only way that's the only
[2:09:21 - 2:09:26] ▶
thing that'll protect yourself i said that's really stupid i'm not gonna do that and you know it was
[2:09:26 - 2:09:32] ▶
just a couple days later on well maybe it's not that stupid so um and was it do you think it was um
[2:09:32 - 2:09:40] ▶
self-protection or idealism where you was a part of you like this needs to be out this is crazy
[2:09:41 - 2:09:46] ▶
oh yeah of course hiding yeah yeah but it was it was an equal part of self-protection
[2:09:46 - 2:09:50] ▶
yeah no fair enough um lear is somebody i think a lot of people have questions about because he was
[2:09:51 - 2:09:58] ▶
he had crazy beliefs crazy believe you know i mean some of the stuff was so ridiculous you know i would
[2:09:58 - 2:10:06] ▶
sit there and just talk to him and go you are absolutely out of your mind if you believe yeah i mean
[2:10:06 - 2:10:11] ▶
you didn't believe the sun was hot yeah he said there were people living in the sun there so there's
[2:10:11 - 2:10:15] ▶
no one living in the sun john and um said yeah they they built the moon on jupiter and uh that's
[2:10:15 - 2:10:23] ▶
where they manufactured it and they towed it into earth's orbit what is giving you these ridiculous
[2:10:23 - 2:10:29] ▶
why are you believing this nonsense yeah and um how'd you meet him um gene huff was a real estate
[2:10:29 - 2:10:38] ▶
appraiser and uh at the time john was looking to get a loan on his house and um he had been on
[2:10:38 - 2:10:48] ▶
george knapp had a show on the record like after the news and john lear had been on there back when he
[2:10:50 - 2:10:56] ▶
wasn't so have well i wasn't i wasn't going to say he wasn't so crazy but didn't have such crazy ideas
[2:10:56 - 2:11:04] ▶
you know i mean he was uh look he was an accomplished pilot a brilliant guy and he had
[2:11:04 - 2:11:10] ▶
you know tons of files and had lots of great contacts the only problem with john was
[2:11:10 - 2:11:17] ▶
he had no filter yeah i mean he could have a four-star general tell him something
[2:11:18 - 2:11:23] ▶
and he'll write it and put her in a file and he'll have some derelict that's walking by his house and go
[2:11:25 - 2:11:30] ▶
i know jello thinks and he'll go all right and he'll put them in the same file and they have the
[2:11:30 - 2:11:36] ▶
same level of credibility going what are you talking about you know um so uh he drove me crazy because of
[2:11:36 - 2:11:44] ▶
that but um he did you know earlier on he was you know less exotic with his theories and you know it's
[2:11:44 - 2:11:54] ▶
spoken to george knapp i had seen it on tv so at gene huff and um anyway he wound up doing
[2:11:54 - 2:12:00] ▶
the appraisal on his house and i went with gene yeah to you know help him measure it and uh you
[2:12:00 - 2:12:07] ▶
know kind of got talking to john and that's how we met he's such an odd character because his father
[2:12:07 - 2:12:13] ▶
created the first business airliner in the u.s the learjet yeah bill lear aviation yeah bill lear and
[2:12:13 - 2:12:20] ▶
invented the autopilot invented the eight-track tape i mean he's ready a direction finder yeah yeah
[2:12:20 - 2:12:25] ▶
yeah yeah he was he was quite a guy he was and so um he i mean he had a problem with john too i mean
[2:12:25 - 2:12:32] ▶
john was eliminated from you know his will and john showed me as well you know every paragraph said
[2:12:32 - 2:12:40] ▶
except you know everybody gets this except john olsen lear except john olsen lear except i mean he was so
[2:12:40 - 2:12:48] ▶
angry at his kid yeah yeah completely removed him from the will maybe um apple fell far from the tree
[2:12:48 - 2:12:55] ▶
like you know as far as uh uh you know aviation engineering prowess or something but uh john lear
[2:12:55 - 2:13:03] ▶
won all sorts of records as a pilot he was a very impressive pilot um oh yeah credit is due where credit
[2:13:03 - 2:13:09] ▶
is due i mean he had all kinds of world records and it's just uh it's just his filter john lear
[2:13:09 - 2:13:17] ▶
uh was super into ufos before you got the job at uh area 51 s4 like i think he had a ufo blog
[2:13:18 - 2:13:25] ▶
and so do you think like why do you think it didn't come up in a background check that you were friends
[2:13:25 - 2:13:33] ▶
with this oh it did oh it did they absolutely asked me about oh they asked you about the first day okay
[2:13:33 - 2:13:38] ▶
okay yeah what's your relationship with john in fact that might have been the first question really
[2:13:38 - 2:13:45] ▶
yeah at eg and g when i sat down that's that yeah it's the first thing they mentioned and what did
[2:13:45 - 2:13:49] ▶
you say i said he's a crazy friend yeah and uh i don't remember what else but i just you know told him
[2:13:49 - 2:13:58] ▶
some stuff yeah he's met him and yeah he's uh it's fascinating and i mean john would just do the
[2:13:58 - 2:14:06] ▶
craziest stuff you know back then he'd uh he flew l10 11s which is a big big jet you know i know it's
[2:14:06 - 2:14:17] ▶
400 people on it or something like that and you know occasionally he'd call and just you know be
[2:14:17 - 2:14:22] ▶
like a tuesday night eight o'clock hey you want to go to minneapolis uh okay all right meet me down at
[2:14:22 - 2:14:30] ▶
the airport wear a suit and come on so he'd be a pilot and you know the pilot of the craft and i'd
[2:14:30 - 2:14:37] ▶
come on he said just come on the tarmac and tell this guy and you know walk up in the plane and he'd
[2:14:37 - 2:14:42] ▶
tell the co-pilot and engineer hey this guy's from the faa so he's just going to be observing us and
[2:14:42 - 2:14:47] ▶
taking it so i take the jump seat behind the you know pilot and just fly with john did he talk to you
[2:14:47 - 2:14:54] ▶
about ufos before you got the job at s4 area 51 no it didn't talk to me about him but i mean he spoke
[2:14:54 - 2:15:01] ▶
about them did he ever yeah i mean he used to tell me there are aliens living in the mountains alongside
[2:15:01 - 2:15:06] ▶
uh you know i think it's i-95 or something right the highway he said yeah there's a billion of them
[2:15:07 - 2:15:13] ▶
in there and it's so crazy did he ever uh show you anything billy meyers related i don't
[2:15:13 - 2:15:21] ▶
i don't recall okay i think i think when i described i think when i described the craft
[2:15:21 - 2:15:30] ▶
to him and drew it i think he brought out the billy meyer book and he said i think that's right for in
[2:15:30 - 2:15:36] ▶
fact it is that's where i first saw it so we saw uh we showed him the billy meyers tape i said yeah
[2:15:36 - 2:15:41] ▶
that's that's not like the craft that's the craft that's so interesting so yeah he kind of helped
[2:15:41 - 2:15:47] ▶
you piece it together is did he um was he still
[2:15:47 - 2:15:50] ▶
affiliated with because he was a cia cargo pilot till 1983 i think yeah that's true did he uh
[2:15:51 - 2:15:57] ▶
continue flying for them after that or did he disappear okay i don't think so yeah because he
[2:15:57 - 2:16:04] ▶
was he's this interesting character to me because it seems like he has crazy access to area 51 like
[2:16:04 - 2:16:09] ▶
he's like snooping around and taking photos of like f-117s and he even leaks the details of the f-117 to
[2:16:09 - 2:16:17] ▶
george knapp but then he still like knows all the security guards there so i'm like what's his what's
[2:16:17 - 2:16:23] ▶
his deal you know i mean i had been out at you know but before the s4 thing um you know out in the
[2:16:23 - 2:16:30] ▶
desert in the middle of the night with binoculars and stuff trying outside uh tonopah yeah you know
[2:16:30 - 2:16:35] ▶
trying to get pictures uh any new aircraft that's flying around because i mean he was obviously a big
[2:16:35 - 2:16:41] ▶
aviation buff yeah yeah you know and i was into that too sometimes i'd just go out and watch
[2:16:41 - 2:16:45] ▶
you know fighters taking off from nellis air force base because you could get right up to the fence
[2:16:46 - 2:16:51] ▶
there and and uh you know so it was uh yeah he was definitely into snooping around and yeah whatever
[2:16:51 - 2:16:58] ▶
he could find out i uh i mentioned jacques valet uh earlier he you met him right yeah i met him and
[2:16:58 - 2:17:07] ▶
you know we spoke briefly and then uh um from what i remember
[2:17:07 - 2:17:13] ▶
uh somebody was talking about making a movie with him and then after hearing about me and talking they
[2:17:13 - 2:17:23] ▶
started talking about well maybe we won't we'll do it on bob instead and he was super pissed off
[2:17:23 - 2:17:29] ▶
really yeah and then from that point on all of a sudden you know everything bob said is crazy
[2:17:29 - 2:17:36] ▶
really yeah but uh yeah initially he was uh because because yeah he writes he wrote a book
[2:17:36 - 2:17:42] ▶
called messengers of deception and he writes about you and he says um you know bob lazar seems to be
[2:17:42 - 2:17:49] ▶
very legit but uh he also talks about this pine saw drink he drinks you know this this drink he drinks
[2:17:49 - 2:17:55] ▶
and the memory lapses it caused now what there's no memory no memory lapses okay it's you know
[2:17:55 - 2:18:03] ▶
so it was like this vitamin b shot that was like immunity related yeah yeah that's all it was again
[2:18:04 - 2:18:09] ▶
since you know we're working with completely unknown materials yeah we don't know what and
[2:18:09 - 2:18:13] ▶
apparently people had severe reactions yeah to some of the stuff just touching the craft
[2:18:13 - 2:18:18] ▶
so yeah yeah so they had dealt with that before i feel like i can defend you on 99.9 of things and then
[2:18:19 - 2:18:26] ▶
the one thing i have trouble with is the mit thing because that's the other thing circulating
[2:18:26 - 2:18:30] ▶
is it was did you get your masters there or you were sent there i was sent there on a specific
[2:18:30 - 2:18:35] ▶
kind of program isolated program yeah and then yeah and i did i i did a lot of auditing uh-huh in
[2:18:35 - 2:18:41] ▶
both places and then on on caltech for caltech what was that that so you were sent to mit and then
[2:18:41 - 2:18:47] ▶
caltech was different caltech was way before that okay that was you know but um and now i don't know i
[2:18:47 - 2:18:55] ▶
guess if i really look through old paperwork and stuff i can come up with things but that's never been
[2:18:55 - 2:19:02] ▶
yeah and i think george knapp found i think some people who knew you yeah yeah yeah yeah one other
[2:19:02 - 2:19:10] ▶
question that people have is why were you allowed to give him a tour of los alamos after uh you know
[2:19:10 - 2:19:19] ▶
you blew the whistle on area 51 like why wasn't there this like nationwide directive at all of the
[2:19:19 - 2:19:24] ▶
national labs like don't let this guy back look it was really nothing i mean we got on a southwest flight
[2:19:24 - 2:19:31] ▶
came out there rented a car drove up and uh i still knew all the guards and stuff like that so
[2:19:32 - 2:19:39] ▶
we came up and he's you know it's like lazar you're back yeah just going in there to you know
[2:19:39 - 2:19:45] ▶
you think it was just like it was just like a different time and oh it's you can't los alamos is
[2:19:45 - 2:19:50] ▶
so much higher security now i mean it was so nonchalant back then and we just wrote right into the
[2:19:50 - 2:19:57] ▶
the experimental areas came over here is it george this is my desk were you surprised was it part of
[2:19:57 - 2:20:02] ▶
you nervous that there would be some red alert no not at all you were like zero concern you didn't
[2:20:02 - 2:20:08] ▶
worry that there was any sort of coordination between area 51 and nobody knew what was going
[2:20:08 - 2:20:13] ▶
on there it was like i said it was very lax atmosphere in fact um a year or two after that
[2:20:13 - 2:20:21] ▶
they were so concerned about that i think they called it the tiger team came in to test security
[2:20:21 - 2:20:28] ▶
there and they failed so horribly um that they just redid everything and uh you know after that point
[2:20:28 - 2:20:37] ▶
you're forget it you're not going in but um yeah i like still had keys and things yeah yeah it was
[2:20:37 - 2:20:45] ▶
it was not even a problem when did you start united nuclear nine 99 2000 did you ever work with the
[2:20:45 - 2:20:55] ▶
government with united nuclear yeah yeah oh yeah okay yeah do you i mean we still we supply them
[2:20:55 - 2:21:00] ▶
you know they they train uh department of homeland security fbi i mean we we sell them stuff all the time
[2:21:01 - 2:21:10] ▶
especially when they're training people to use radiation detection equipment i mean we'll give them
[2:21:10 - 2:21:15] ▶
or sell them you know radioactive sources so they can go hide something in a warehouse and give the
[2:21:15 - 2:21:22] ▶
trainees a geiger counter go go find it you know and did you ever wonder why they didn't view you as
[2:21:22 - 2:21:28] ▶
a liability given your you know late 80s experience at s4 area 51 and they were just down to do
[2:21:28 - 2:21:34] ▶
contract work with you i don't know i don't know you know but one hand doesn't know what the other
[2:21:34 - 2:21:41] ▶
is doing in the government yeah yeah it's it's kind of a mess yeah yeah yeah no and it's uh i mean
[2:21:41 - 2:21:46] ▶
in fact part of you know united nuclear when it was just beginning um some of the stuff we're selling
[2:21:46 - 2:21:52] ▶
was kind of questionable you know this could potentially you know be used for explosives
[2:21:52 - 2:21:58] ▶
or stuff like that so went down to the fbi and reviewed everything with them and they went no you can
[2:21:58 - 2:22:06] ▶
that's cool went down to the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms no we're we're good you
[2:22:06 - 2:22:10] ▶
know and the postal service no everything's good all right great we're gonna go selling it and then um
[2:22:10 - 2:22:17] ▶
you know rated by the consumer product safety commission they come in with a swat team with
[2:22:17 - 2:22:22] ▶
machine woke my wife up out of bed with you know an m16 bonded interface you know it's like we checked
[2:22:22 - 2:22:29] ▶
with everybody i didn't check with us so don't you guys talk so yeah one hand has no idea what the
[2:22:29 - 2:22:36] ▶
other is doing when it comes to the government yeah no i believe that um is there any part of you that
[2:22:36 - 2:22:41] ▶
thinks that they wanted you to come out and that they wanted uh some frameworks because to your point
[2:22:41 - 2:22:49] ▶
it's maladaptive to have this completely shut out from like like to have a stem student who's talented
[2:22:49 - 2:22:55] ▶
and you know why go through the complicated why i mean why make it complicated and make me do it
[2:22:55 - 2:23:01] ▶
right why not just do it yourself put out the high level framework and say yeah this whole complicated
[2:23:01 - 2:23:07] ▶
scenario with this guy coming in and hope that he does something you want that that doesn't make any
[2:23:07 - 2:23:11] ▶
sense yeah yeah yeah no i think that's fair there's this john lear interview where again this is it's
[2:23:11 - 2:23:18] ▶
impossible to parse what the hell is going on with that guy look i have told i have heard john lear tell my
[2:23:18 - 2:23:25] ▶
story yeah and it is so wrong it's unbelievable yeah yeah it's unbelievable i mean he puts i mean he
[2:23:25 - 2:23:33] ▶
inserts himself in there in a prominent position you know well i got bob you know to get the job to here
[2:23:33 - 2:23:39] ▶
and just and what are you taught it's completely inaccurate yeah yeah yeah and he in this interview
[2:23:39 - 2:23:46] ▶
he says like um yeah uh admiral mcclellan who was a navy admiral came to me and he was mj level you
[2:23:46 - 2:23:55] ▶
know mj obviously in the ufo lore would be like the elite you know kind of committee that governs
[2:23:55 - 2:24:00] ▶
this whole topic came to me and he said we got to get bob on the job because we know that we can hide
[2:24:00 - 2:24:06] ▶
his it's it's in some ways it's corroborating your story because it's saying like no he was there he was
[2:24:06 - 2:24:12] ▶
at s4 he was working on this stuff but we need to get bob specifically because we know we can have
[2:24:12 - 2:24:17] ▶
plausible deniability because they'll never be able to find his mit records it turns out that mj1
[2:24:17 - 2:24:24] ▶
the head of mj12 is a guy named admiral mike mcclellan he wanted to get some of the information out
[2:24:24 - 2:24:32] ▶
because he didn't he didn't want to uh he thought that some of this information should be out in the
[2:24:32 - 2:24:37] ▶
public we don't need to keep all this secrecy so he decided trying to figure out a way to get it to the
[2:24:37 - 2:24:43] ▶
public so he knew that uh i was a blabbermouth and i would tell anything i knew uh they investigated
[2:24:43 - 2:24:52] ▶
bob lazar and they knew that he was a genius uh but that he had a background such uh that they could
[2:24:52 - 2:25:00] ▶
instantly discredit him and then i so i thought about that for a while and i was like what the what is
[2:25:00 - 2:25:05] ▶
this and i don't i couldn't even find an admiral mcclellan and then i've heard that name before but you
[2:25:05 - 2:25:11] ▶
have i that's interesting that you've heard it yeah i i have definitely heard the name it could
[2:25:11 - 2:25:16] ▶
have come from john lear but um i don't know i mean that the thing is some of the stuff he's saying
[2:25:16 - 2:25:22] ▶
absolutely can be true or absolutely cannot totally i don't know but i mean you know i love the guy he's
[2:25:22 - 2:25:29] ▶
he was he was a great friend he just thinks differently and uh i mean it's sad he died i wish
[2:25:29 - 2:25:35] ▶
i had spent more time with him yeah uh but after i moved it was just impractical but um yeah i mean
[2:25:35 - 2:25:42] ▶
if you're talking about statements john lear made it's tough it's really tough to find out what's
[2:25:42 - 2:25:49] ▶
what's accurate and what's not decoding the voynich manuscript or something yeah yeah but um yeah no he's
[2:25:49 - 2:25:56] ▶
he's a complicated guy he um so i i think and we talked about this a little last night and maybe this is
[2:25:56 - 2:26:02] ▶
an interesting follow-up for this show is um i think he might have been talking about a guy named
[2:26:02 - 2:26:08] ▶
mike mcconnell who became nsa director later but he was involved in some s4 area 51 stuff related to
[2:26:08 - 2:26:16] ▶
dan barish whose story i think honestly holds up a lot less than your story uh but it's it's you know
[2:26:16 - 2:26:24] ▶
it has to be noted because it's one other guy who's mentioning s4 uh and so mike mcconnell's kind of
[2:26:24 - 2:26:31] ▶
involved there and he was a navy admiral at the time so i think about that and i'm like i wonder
[2:26:31 - 2:26:35] ▶
if mike mcconnell was somewhat involved when you came out as dennis was that a shot across the bow
[2:26:35 - 2:26:41] ▶
against dennis mariani yeah sure was so you were trying to kind of get at him a little bit yeah yeah
[2:26:41 - 2:26:48] ▶
what was what were your feelings towards him kind of personally were you resentful or were you yeah how'd
[2:26:49 - 2:26:56] ▶
how'd you feel towards him i guess somewhat resentful um
[2:26:56 - 2:27:02] ▶
i don't know it's hard to tap into how i felt back then yeah why do you think and i know luigi you
[2:27:05 - 2:27:12] ▶
might have some theories here too why do you think dennis wanted to meet up with you at the end of this
[2:27:12 - 2:27:20] ▶
whole saga and then you get up with him at the casino and then you're speaking to him and gene
[2:27:20 - 2:27:26] ▶
huff is looking and he's just not even like looking at you like what what is that about i don't know i
[2:27:26 - 2:27:31] ▶
think dennis really had something to say and uh i don't know i don't know if people from s4
[2:27:31 - 2:27:38] ▶
got there and changed his mind i don't know if he intentionally wanted me
[2:27:38 - 2:27:44] ▶
to go out there just to get me away from the house i i really don't know because you got back to the
[2:27:46 - 2:27:52] ▶
house and something yeah things were missing yeah anything of consequence yeah yeah and uh you can
[2:27:52 - 2:27:58] ▶
talk about no okay so um you know um i mean i i don't know it's all guesswork yeah i mean when we
[2:27:58 - 2:28:09] ▶
when we sat down even gene huff i spoke to gene huff about that and gene's perspective to that was he
[2:28:09 - 2:28:17] ▶
saw bob walk up to to dennis and it's important it's an important part because i always think about
[2:28:17 - 2:28:23] ▶
the fact that gene huff was there joe was also there yeah yeah but yeah we were all we all had
[2:28:23 - 2:28:29] ▶
eyes on him yeah and and what gene said was what you know bob lazar walks up to this guy dennis this
[2:28:29 - 2:28:35] ▶
blonde you know military looking guy and bob's talking to him the guy's not even looking at him
[2:28:35 - 2:28:40] ▶
and that g that caught gene's attention is like you know if bob was making that up what did he do just
[2:28:41 - 2:28:47] ▶
pick out a guy out of nowhere and starts talking if the guy was a nobody he would have turned around
[2:28:47 - 2:28:53] ▶
and go like what do you want yeah he would have been like stop talking yeah no i i mean i kept
[2:28:53 - 2:28:57] ▶
saying dennis dennis i'm here you know what do you want what what's going on i don't remember my exact
[2:28:57 - 2:29:03] ▶
words but he never even looked up at me and uh yeah i just walked over to gene and said he's i i
[2:29:03 - 2:29:12] ▶
don't know what the deal is with dennis we both turned around and he was gone yeah yeah yeah yeah
[2:29:12 - 2:29:17] ▶
that's so interesting so i wonder a part of me wonders if he himself wanted to come out after you
[2:29:17 - 2:29:25] ▶
or something or there was something unfortunately it's all speculation yeah yeah yeah he could have
[2:29:25 - 2:29:30] ▶
wanted to come out he might have been part of like well let's get bob out of a house yeah he could
[2:29:30 - 2:29:35] ▶
it there's a thousand but there's no direction to go in i mean that was so striking from the
[2:29:35 - 2:29:42] ▶
documentaries they put a your gun was set up in your own car and the doors were open in the in the
[2:29:42 - 2:29:48] ▶
parking lot right and then you yeah that happened more than once that's scary man yeah did you yeah
[2:29:48 - 2:29:54] ▶
and i mean we would lock it and test the door and because it had happened before and go all right
[2:29:54 - 2:30:00] ▶
that's like locked locked check check every single thing okay mario it's locked it's locked okay we go
[2:30:00 - 2:30:07] ▶
into the gym we come back out everything's open did you was there ever a moment where you were like
[2:30:07 - 2:30:12] ▶
over 50 percent i might get assassinated yeah because it's it's why i said we have to look under
[2:30:13 - 2:30:21] ▶
the car see if there's something wired in there or a bomb i mean we were even afraid the only thing that
[2:30:21 - 2:30:26] ▶
wasn't open um i think was the hood where the engine was so we were afraid to open that you know and
[2:30:26 - 2:30:36] ▶
finally did but looked over the car but yeah i was afraid there was a bomb on there or somebody wired
[2:30:37 - 2:30:43] ▶
it up but i as george said i think they were just screwing with me and mario you know mario talked a
[2:30:43 - 2:30:50] ▶
lot with him and we we we've really really spent a lot of time and it's hard to try he he also kept
[2:30:50 - 2:30:58] ▶
saying it's really hard to like explain and express what that worry was because i was with he said i was
[2:30:58 - 2:31:05] ▶
with bob all the time and we were scared that something was going to blow up and he says i was
[2:31:05 - 2:31:10] ▶
so going through my hard times that i didn't care i just told bob stay out and i'll try it and he would
[2:31:10 - 2:31:16] ▶
start the car because he was like it i'm gonna do it but you could sense that even from mario's
[2:31:16 - 2:31:23] ▶
perspective there was a real worry and so you know this is this is a this is something that clearly
[2:31:23 - 2:31:31] ▶
was causing a lot of worry not just for you but for mario as well because like what the hell is going
[2:31:31 - 2:31:37] ▶
on the doors are unlocked again and you know why are they doing this so clearly you think something's
[2:31:37 - 2:31:43] ▶
it could go wrong so they're but whether they were trying to just intimidate or do something whatever
[2:31:43 - 2:31:51] ▶
that was it was happening according to to those guys to these guys did you get the sense that there
[2:31:51 - 2:31:57] ▶
were maybe mob ties like there was some you know they talk about the ufo legacy program sometimes like
[2:31:57 - 2:32:04] ▶
it's a cartel or like a mafia that exists outside of the state did you get this and obviously you're
[2:32:04 - 2:32:11] ▶
you know going back and forth from vegas and vegas is a hot spot for that sort of thing did you ever get
[2:32:11 - 2:32:16] ▶
that that sense not that it was the mob per se yeah but it was like these guys were disconnected from
[2:32:16 - 2:32:24] ▶
the government yeah they were like their own yeah they were their own cabal you kind of get that but
[2:32:24 - 2:32:30] ▶
like even i feel like john lear was like like he had you know there's a picture with him and g gordon
[2:32:30 - 2:32:37] ▶
liddy do you know that is that's like yeah i i know the name i don't remember who he is he's this fbi
[2:32:37 - 2:32:41] ▶
agent who was this kind of agent provocateur who was very involved in watergate and stuff and you get
[2:32:41 - 2:32:48] ▶
the sense that that whole world like the the people were the mormons who were around howard hughes and
[2:32:48 - 2:32:53] ▶
there was a lot of mob you know there's a lot of mob activity there and it was like they were kind of
[2:32:53 - 2:32:58] ▶
like you could you could see a civilian government official calling them and then being like off
[2:32:58 - 2:33:05] ▶
is the vibe yeah yeah yeah yeah we're doing our thing yeah yeah is undeniable yeah yeah yeah yeah
[2:33:05 - 2:33:14] ▶
i'm a hundred percent on that yeah i know you've also because you know you live in montreal and there's
[2:33:14 - 2:33:19] ▶
stuff there and i'm sure you you've bumped into things people yeah i i i always talk about it when when
[2:33:19 - 2:33:27] ▶
i talk when i hear about all these government organizations and government secrets and the
[2:33:27 - 2:33:32] ▶
intelligence community and i think a lot of researchers and a lot of people researching this
[2:33:32 - 2:33:37] ▶
should also pay attention to what organized crime did back then back in the 60s the 70s the 80s the 90s
[2:33:37 - 2:33:46] ▶
and how those organizations operated and what they did because it's a very similar way of keeping secrets
[2:33:48 - 2:33:55] ▶
and you know i think that there is some tie somewhere i'm not saying that they're involved
[2:33:55 - 2:34:02] ▶
and they're in charge of anything that's not what i'm saying but i'm saying there is clear motivation
[2:34:02 - 2:34:07] ▶
for somebody who's trying to keep a secret to have ties with with let's say the mob so that if ever
[2:34:07 - 2:34:15] ▶
something or somebody does start going too rogue well you could basically scare that person and say well
[2:34:15 - 2:34:22] ▶
you know these guys will come after you and that'll scare somebody more than a lawyer will come after
[2:34:22 - 2:34:30] ▶
you that's right well it seems like they they were going after they were going after your marriage and
[2:34:30 - 2:34:37] ▶
like they it's all blackmail techniques like that's what it it feels like it's compromise systems and you
[2:34:37 - 2:34:43] ▶
look at yeah they weren't they weren't taking the legal angle at all no no which is really if you want to
[2:34:43 - 2:34:49] ▶
enforce something like that's that's the way you yeah do it uh which is pretty wild i mean you see
[2:34:49 - 2:34:55] ▶
this stuff with the epstein thing too where it's just they're just clearly is this distributed kind
[2:34:55 - 2:35:00] ▶
of compromise system and it deals with spooky science i don't know if you're tracking any of this stuff but
[2:35:00 - 2:35:04] ▶
like yeah i started looking into it that isn't it wild yeah it's it's really wild and then he says and
[2:35:04 - 2:35:10] ▶
it's so widespread it's widespread and here's what's crazy he's interviewed by steve bannon and epstein is
[2:35:10 - 2:35:18] ▶
this is at the end of his life yeah and he goes why did you put uh zoro ranch where you put it and
[2:35:18 - 2:35:24] ▶
he goes well um you know a bunch of los alamos physicists were retiring and so you know they were
[2:35:24 - 2:35:31] ▶
kind of aging out and i wanted to speak with them los alamos which was the high energy lab up in new
[2:35:31 - 2:35:38] ▶
mexico was losing all its scientists and you bought your property out in new mexico to be near that yes
[2:35:38 - 2:35:43] ▶
because the scientists were going to be they cut the funding for high energy physics and you're
[2:35:43 - 2:35:48] ▶
like oh my god how wax is our doe you know department of energy security and then you
[2:35:48 - 2:35:53] ▶
realize you know bill richardson was kind of in with the clintons and he was the secretary of energy
[2:35:53 - 2:35:57] ▶
and he's there and he's just systematically siphoning american nuclear secrets which and then he goes
[2:35:58 - 2:36:05] ▶
there's another email where he said i i killed ponds back in the day or whatever and he's talking about
[2:36:05 - 2:36:10] ▶
ponds and fleischmen who are claiming to get cold cold fusion results and so it's like what is epstein
[2:36:10 - 2:36:16] ▶
dealing with cold fusion then he's he's hanging out at harvard with the math department none of that
[2:36:16 - 2:36:20] ▶
makes any sense it's weird none of that makes any sense really strange i used to drive by that ranch
[2:36:20 - 2:36:25] ▶
all the time i lived really close to it when i lived in new mexico yeah and uh they always called
[2:36:25 - 2:36:30] ▶
it the victoria's secret ranch because there were models there yeah everyone knew that is the victoria's
[2:36:30 - 2:36:35] ▶
secret ranch so you would drive by epstein's ranch and they would call it the victoria's
[2:36:35 - 2:36:39] ▶
secret i mean not right by it but as you drive it on the road you can see it up on that yeah we know
[2:36:39 - 2:36:45] ▶
why they called it that's because he was close with les wexner who was the ceo and founder of victoria's
[2:36:45 - 2:36:50] ▶
secret yeah so you would drive by there and they would call it that everybody called it that yeah no way
[2:36:50 - 2:36:56] ▶
we'd drive up to los alamos to pick up alpha radiation probes that my company did and uh you know we'd come
[2:36:57 - 2:37:04] ▶
back but yeah every every time we drove out we passed by it a couple times that's so nuts damn so
[2:37:04 - 2:37:12] ▶
what do you do because like it's also for the people that are like disbelieve your stuff it's like
[2:37:12 - 2:37:18] ▶
look at all this bizarre it's like this cabal is controlling science or something you know it's so
[2:37:18 - 2:37:24] ▶
weird that is really weird yeah and it's again you know i'll say it it's it's it's just we're just
[2:37:24 - 2:37:31] ▶
talking about epstein that's one guy that's one guy it's not just one guy clearly not no it's not
[2:37:31 - 2:37:39] ▶
it's not just one guy yeah it's just not it's not i mean he might have been the ringleader but it's uh
[2:37:39 - 2:37:45] ▶
there's a lot of people or he might have been an extension of something much yeah he could be but he
[2:37:45 - 2:37:50] ▶
was obsessed with the casimir effect and he would hold these oh he was oh yeah yeah yeah he would he
[2:37:50 - 2:37:55] ▶
would hold these gravity conferences and then the very fact that he's saying do you know that for a
[2:37:55 - 2:38:00] ▶
fact yeah this is all in the emails this is all a fact and yeah there's an old colleague of mine eric
[2:38:00 - 2:38:05] ▶
weinstein that talks yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and so this old colleague of mine eric weinstein
[2:38:05 - 2:38:11] ▶
has this theory of everything in in physics where you know involves gauging gravity instead of
[2:38:12 - 2:38:17] ▶
quantizing gravity beyond my pay grade but i find it interesting um and and epstein like
[2:38:17 - 2:38:24] ▶
like somehow knew about his theory before like just about anybody else did and so so weinstein's
[2:38:24 - 2:38:31] ▶
like how is epstein so tied in with the harvard math department like you think it was just his
[2:38:31 - 2:38:35] ▶
hobby or something like science was his hobby and he just had money so he uh no ability to connect to
[2:38:35 - 2:38:42] ▶
these i think there you read his emails and it's like there's somebody behind him who knew exactly what
[2:38:42 - 2:38:49] ▶
to look for and but he didn't know he was like a low level version of it and so he'll say things
[2:38:49 - 2:38:54] ▶
like you need to boost your physics time is much weirder than you think it's actually just a function
[2:38:54 - 2:38:59] ▶
of the vibration of cesium atoms and you're like how who's giving you this stuff you know and then
[2:38:59 - 2:39:04] ▶
he's sort of like mining people for the info and it's weird i mean did he he said that he said that yeah
[2:39:04 - 2:39:13] ▶
okay which is true it is an atomic clock it's an atomic clock it's just a vibrating cesium so
[2:39:13 - 2:39:19] ▶
yeah i mean it it's true i don't know if that's what time is but it's our perception of time time is
[2:39:19 - 2:39:26] ▶
very weird isn't it wouldn't you say on in a just from a pure physics perspective it's it's a weird
[2:39:26 - 2:39:31] ▶
it's an anomaly it's strange yeah like like it's we can't it's the most used noun in the english language
[2:39:31 - 2:39:38] ▶
but we can only define it with respect to the movement of macroscopic bodies or to oscillations
[2:39:39 - 2:39:45] ▶
on an electromagnetic wave but it's not like a it's a thing that we're like it's almost like fish in a
[2:39:45 - 2:39:52] ▶
fishbowl where like the fish are trying to even describe what water is but they don't they can't
[2:39:52 - 2:39:57] ▶
because they're in it yeah and then we're in time yeah you have to be outside of it to describe it i mean
[2:39:57 - 2:40:04] ▶
that's that's it and you can't be outside it it's just it's just a concept that makes us happy
[2:40:04 - 2:40:09] ▶
is what time is do you think that there's something about time being weird that might
[2:40:09 - 2:40:15] ▶
help explain some of the ufo stuff yeah i think there's there's definitely something there yeah
[2:40:15 - 2:40:22] ▶
because if gravity's gigantic chunks that are missing from physics and uh i think some people have access to
[2:40:23 - 2:40:32] ▶
that yeah i think so too yeah i mean the um cosmic red the other thing that this guy burkhard heim
[2:40:32 - 2:40:40] ▶
says is that the cosmic red shift is the repulsive form of gravity and if you look at dark energy
[2:40:40 - 2:40:46] ▶
you could literally just look it up it's like this it's not one of the four fundamental forces but
[2:40:47 - 2:40:51] ▶
it's just you know the universe is inflating energy really exists right yeah yeah that's and dark matter
[2:40:51 - 2:40:58] ▶
right i'm not i'm yeah i'm not really buying either one of dark matter has never been detected
[2:40:58 - 2:41:02] ▶
but it's just there it's a placeholder to justify gravity's weakness yes yeah yeah yeah and then i mean
[2:41:02 - 2:41:09] ▶
to me that's i always viewed that's what gravitons were that's why this caught my attention because
[2:41:09 - 2:41:14] ▶
he's yeah back on the graviton bandwagon well gravitons are interesting because as early as the 50s you know
[2:41:14 - 2:41:21] ▶
there's all this like crazy hardcore anti-gravity research and then it kind of disappears yeah but you had a
[2:41:21 - 2:41:26] ▶
bunch of people saying we're gonna be gravity it's right around the bend there's a guy named george
[2:41:26 - 2:41:30] ▶
trimble who's a vp at martin corporations rias research for institute for advanced study and he
[2:41:30 - 2:41:37] ▶
was this really wacky thinker and um he worked with lewis whitten and probably towns and brown and um
[2:41:37 - 2:41:44] ▶
you know they would say like it was it's going to take us the time that it took to build the atom
[2:41:45 - 2:41:49] ▶
bomb to basically beat gravity and they were stanley desser and richard arnowit who were famous
[2:41:49 - 2:41:54] ▶
physicists at the time from princeton were talking about gravitons and they were like we have a very
[2:41:54 - 2:41:59] ▶
clear theory of gravitons and we know how to do this and the two things that come up for gravity where
[2:41:59 - 2:42:05] ▶
there's a lot of smoke but no fire is the thing we just talked about with bueller extremely high
[2:42:05 - 2:42:10] ▶
electric field differentials creating thrust and then the second thing is very fast rotating spinning
[2:42:10 - 2:42:16] ▶
superconductors those two things seem to have some but is that actually gravity so there's another
[2:42:16 - 2:42:24] ▶
force 30 years has gone by and i've kind of been doing my own research and uh i'm just more convinced
[2:42:24 - 2:42:33] ▶
that that i'm right about that and can you say anything about that what do you think you're right
[2:42:33 - 2:42:41] ▶
about that there's another force and it's not gravity and what is the if you were to characterize
[2:42:41 - 2:42:49] ▶
that force as distinct from gravity so gravity clearly you'd have all these other byproduct effects
[2:42:49 - 2:42:54] ▶
the photons and what what's what does this force do that's different what is it what does it look like
[2:42:55 - 2:43:02] ▶
well it's a it's a repelling force but i i think it's something that works closer to the way you would
[2:43:03 - 2:43:12] ▶
think in a science fiction movie you can have gravity and anti-gravity but you really can i think gravity is
[2:43:12 - 2:43:17] ▶
just an attractive force i think this other force you can you can to make simplify it push or pull
[2:43:17 - 2:43:24] ▶
and i think it it also affects the flow of time exactly like gravity does i think it affects light
[2:43:25 - 2:43:33] ▶
it does some of the some of the observations you would have with gravity would also overlap in this
[2:43:33 - 2:43:41] ▶
other force but i think it's i think it's a unique force have you ever measured this force
[2:43:41 - 2:43:45] ▶
all right yeah you have yeah yeah how have you measured oh no no there's no follow-up question okay okay okay
[2:43:58 - 2:44:04] ▶
okay okay fine fine um is there anything uh kind of high level that you can say as far as your the goal of
[2:44:04 - 2:44:13] ▶
your research you know post the experience like what just duplicate anything just to duplicate
[2:44:13 - 2:44:19] ▶
anything yeah okay i'm sure i can you think you can yeah i'm sure i can you feel confident i'm a hundred
[2:44:19 - 2:44:27] ▶
percent confident yeah i i'm going to yeah have you already gotten some interesting results yeah okay
[2:44:27 - 2:44:33] ▶
that's why i'm 100 confident yeah the thing is just to scale stuff up okay what do you hope your
[2:44:33 - 2:44:39] ▶
legacy is so like 200 years from now okay no one's gonna know who i am i don't know that i don't think
[2:44:39 - 2:44:46] ▶
that's right man think about it like if there are these you know this lineage of technology that is
[2:44:46 - 2:44:53] ▶
completely separate come on i'm going to be overwritten by people look there's other bob lazars and things
[2:44:53 - 2:44:59] ▶
that are going to come on look what's happening all the people that came out since then you know there's
[2:44:59 - 2:45:05] ▶
going to be other people like me eventually some more of this is going to come out and yeah they're
[2:45:05 - 2:45:10] ▶
amazing they're amazing people who've come out since you first and foremost yeah yeah and there's going
[2:45:10 - 2:45:14] ▶
to be bigger more important ones that you just aren't going to look back to the 80s and think you're
[2:45:14 - 2:45:20] ▶
just going to focus on those guys well i would put it the invert i would say if you have like a an army
[2:45:20 - 2:45:25] ▶
of people coming out after you the fact that you're the first makes it even more interesting i think well
[2:45:25 - 2:45:31] ▶
it's it's more likely you'd be forgotten if no one comes out after you do you do you hope to
[2:45:31 - 2:45:36] ▶
vindicate your own experience through your own scientific yeah i do yeah yeah i do that's exciting
[2:45:37 - 2:45:45] ▶
that's cool but i have no idea what other people are doing yeah yeah but i know exactly what not to do
[2:45:46 - 2:45:52] ▶
that's what we did it us for so it's that's actually a big leap forward
[2:45:52 - 2:45:56] ▶
and you saw one hanging up against the wall yeah it was sitting on the wall and i had there's actually
[2:46:02 - 2:46:08] ▶
an error in the movie it has one hole in in the room not two um but yeah there was just a hole with
[2:46:08 - 2:46:16] ▶
it bent out clearly bent out as if it was shot from the bottom why do you think oh it looked like it was
[2:46:16 - 2:46:22] ▶
shot yeah interesting so do you think it was shot with like a kinetic weapon mechanical weapon no no
[2:46:22 - 2:46:29] ▶
question wow and do you think it was a human weapon that shot it i don't know it looks like something
[2:46:29 - 2:46:34] ▶
we would have done to stand it up shoot through it see how how we can penetrate this material whoa do you
[2:46:34 - 2:46:40] ▶
have you ever heard anything about like electromagnetic pulses and ufos and them taking out ufos taking them
[2:46:40 - 2:46:47] ▶
down or anything or well that was that was the other directive of the project it was directed energy
[2:46:47 - 2:46:54] ▶
well yeah it depends what you're talking about there's i mean our directive was duplicate the
[2:46:56 - 2:47:03] ▶
propulsion system at any cost is directive one and directive two was be able to disable the system
[2:47:03 - 2:47:12] ▶
at a distance at any cost do you think and then so that's somewhat directed energy but then there's
[2:47:12 - 2:47:20] ▶
also project sidekick which is a weapon so that's also directed energy so yeah it kind of depends where
[2:47:20 - 2:47:28] ▶
you're going with that i guess had you heard of any ufos prior to that getting shot down with directed
[2:47:28 - 2:47:37] ▶
energy with electromagnetic pull okay i think the only thing i ever heard prior to that was stories
[2:47:37 - 2:47:44] ▶
about the roswell craft getting hit by lightning and crashing or something i think it's the only
[2:47:44 - 2:47:49] ▶
are there any of these stories like like do you think that roswell happened are there any of these
[2:47:49 - 2:47:54] ▶
stories you lend credence to i don't know much about the the roswell crash other than you know what i've
[2:47:54 - 2:48:02] ▶
what i've heard but it sure seems like they were working real hard to cover something up that's you
[2:48:02 - 2:48:07] ▶
know that the roswell uh crash was not one crap it was it was not in one place only though it might
[2:48:07 - 2:48:16] ▶
have been a round of two yeah yeah i i really think it was there was something that happened in the air
[2:48:16 - 2:48:22] ▶
and there's like debris that was scattered all over mac brazzles ranch and then there was the actual
[2:48:23 - 2:48:30] ▶
pod with the beings that was crashed i think it was like two miles away where the hikers found it with
[2:48:30 - 2:48:36] ▶
the kids that were hiking and so clearly it was two different places and the bamboo the the pieces that
[2:48:36 - 2:48:43] ▶
looked like bamboo with the the writing writing on it that was at mac brazzle with the the memory metal
[2:48:43 - 2:48:51] ▶
and then the pod the only information we have of that is the bodies and one of them was already
[2:48:51 - 2:48:57] ▶
being eaten by some uh animals no way yeah the body's being eaten one of them one of them from
[2:48:57 - 2:49:03] ▶
what i remember reading and at the time there's one of them was obviously dead and it was decaying
[2:49:03 - 2:49:10] ▶
like there was an it was clearly some animals that got to it whoa so but i hadn't heard that but the
[2:49:10 - 2:49:17] ▶
only i would the only thing i remember about that was jesse marcel was the yes military yeah right and um
[2:49:17 - 2:49:24] ▶
um he said when you know they came to take pictures or the pictures they took he said
[2:49:24 - 2:49:31] ▶
that wasn't the stuff that we found whoa what general ram rammy yeah yeah he said yeah they
[2:49:31 - 2:49:37] ▶
replaced it with he said that's not what we found well that's the guy and there's that iconic photo
[2:49:37 - 2:49:42] ▶
and it's him with this like tinfoil-y weather balloon thing yeah yeah he claims that the material was
[2:49:42 - 2:49:47] ▶
right off to the side of the frame it's so he said yeah that's that's not the stuff and his son who's a
[2:49:47 - 2:49:53] ▶
air force flight surgeon said that he took the material home and he played with the material yeah
[2:49:53 - 2:49:58] ▶
on the crazy on the kitchen table with his wife yeah and here's what's where stuff gets even crazier
[2:49:58 - 2:50:03] ▶
in 1949 there is a contract between battell memorial institute and wright airfield which turns into
[2:50:03 - 2:50:10] ▶
wright patterson which is where the wreckage the roswell wreckage was rumored to be taken
[2:50:10 - 2:50:14] ▶
and it's like around um alloys like titanium different titanium alloys and this titanium nickel alloy
[2:50:14 - 2:50:22] ▶
and nitinol nitinol yeah nitinol as you know memory metal is basically memory metal and nitinol was
[2:50:22 - 2:50:30] ▶
classified essentially showed up in a navy lab in the 60s yeah and that's what jesse marcel describes the
[2:50:30 - 2:50:37] ▶
material wise yeah because that's that's really indestructible stuff yes and i remember him saying
[2:50:37 - 2:50:47] ▶
it's vernacular we gave we whacked that as hard as we could you know right and it it didn't bend and
[2:50:48 - 2:50:54] ▶
i i tried to burn it they tried to cut into it yeah and it just goes back into its original shape and i
[2:50:54 - 2:51:00] ▶
just actually interviewed yeah it's one of the i mean you can take that metal and flex it a million
[2:51:00 - 2:51:08] ▶
times and it doesn't crack it's what they i mean they use that in artificial hearts because you can it
[2:51:08 - 2:51:16] ▶
can keep flexing and it just doesn't wear it's wild and then and and then you have philip corso
[2:51:16 - 2:51:22] ▶
saying that he helped dole out a lot of this material and it made it into the civil sector because of his
[2:51:22 - 2:51:28] ▶
position he was you know pentagon's like you know foreign technology desk or whatever chief
[2:51:28 - 2:51:34] ▶
and so you have this contract from 49 nobody knew what nitinol was night and all was and then in the
[2:51:35 - 2:51:42] ▶
60s it appears in public randomly at a navy lab it's interesting that's really interesting i never heard
[2:51:42 - 2:51:47] ▶
any of that and i just interviewed a guy who was a witness actually of the virginia crash in in the 1990s
[2:51:48 - 2:51:55] ▶
uh 1996 uh in brazil and he says the same thing he says he held the material in his hands and it went
[2:51:55 - 2:52:01] ▶
he would kind of mess with it and then it would go back into its original form so did you ever
[2:52:01 - 2:52:06] ▶
experience anything like that with the material with material that would go back into its original
[2:52:06 - 2:52:10] ▶
form did you hear anything about that no other than working with night and all yeah but you did work
[2:52:10 - 2:52:15] ▶
with night and all i sell it but did you work you didn't work with it no no no no okay okay okay
[2:52:15 - 2:52:21] ▶
so you didn't hear anything around around that there no not not a peep did you hear anything
[2:52:21 - 2:52:26] ▶
about any other materials no that's material science we're not allowed to know that stuff oh okay so that
[2:52:26 - 2:52:32] ▶
was a whole other yeah interesting yeah which is really stupid and you saw a photo or photos of an alien
[2:52:32 - 2:52:42] ▶
autopsy right yeah if in fact that was true do you think it was part of the the briefing what did what did the
[2:52:42 - 2:52:49] ▶
photos look like i guess if you want to call it a gray something small it had a t cut in the chest and
[2:52:49 - 2:52:59] ▶
there was one single organ removed from the chest was that kind of a visceral experience for you is that
[2:52:59 - 2:53:08] ▶
kind of you know gnarly or were you like no you know at this point i'm going what am i looking through
[2:53:08 - 2:53:15] ▶
yeah you know it it was just kind of all glancing through like give me a break yeah
[2:53:15 - 2:53:23] ▶
there were rumors that the program was going to maybe move to indonesia or southeast asia when you
[2:53:25 - 2:53:31] ▶
were leaving no no they there were they were anxious to move the project out of there completely
[2:53:31 - 2:53:38] ▶
mm-hmm and you know ideally they said they would have loved to go out to the south pacific maybe
[2:53:38 - 2:53:44] ▶
quadulant island or something but they said the expenses would have been so great it's just impossible
[2:53:44 - 2:53:49] ▶
but they just wanted to get away from eyes it's just too close to things if you had to guess do you
[2:53:50 - 2:53:56] ▶
think that the program is completely out of area 51 and in some foreign place now yeah i don't i don't
[2:53:56 - 2:54:04] ▶
believe it's there anymore that would make sense yeah i don't believe it's there yeah i think that
[2:54:04 - 2:54:09] ▶
moved way long ago yeah and you discovered element 115 right it wasn't discovered it's something barry
[2:54:09 - 2:54:17] ▶
and i were working on okay so i mean you can't really say i discovered it okay okay you know oh i
[2:54:17 - 2:54:24] ▶
thought your contribution was that our contribution it was what i was doing okay okay yeah i but what i can't
[2:54:24 - 2:54:31] ▶
say it was just me what tech but it was the um god what the hell was it that we were using oh atomic
[2:54:31 - 2:54:41] ▶
absorption spectroscopy atomic absorption spectroscopy yeah and you did that yeah yeah i mean we had the
[2:54:41 - 2:54:48] ▶
equipment there we also had something to do x-ray diffraction too wow yeah it wasn't barry was much
[2:54:48 - 2:54:55] ▶
more familiar with the equipment but um and you but you don't know the exact isotope
[2:54:55 - 2:55:01] ▶
no did you know it at one point like when you discovered it yeah yeah you did yeah yeah but you
[2:55:01 - 2:55:07] ▶
forgot the yeah i have i have no idea oh man because that would be that yeah i know it would
[2:55:07 - 2:55:12] ▶
really help yeah it would it would also be a nobel prize for you it would be like oh my god they
[2:55:12 - 2:55:18] ▶
figured out like a new isotope at that level but i'd have to be able to produce it or sure you know right
[2:55:18 - 2:55:24] ▶
right right right so it doesn't matter anyway yeah i mean but you know the lab in darmstadt germany
[2:55:24 - 2:55:29] ▶
produced you know a few atoms of 115 so i mean that they discovered 115 yes so i mean they they made it
[2:55:29 - 2:55:37] ▶
you know we yeah we recognized it yeah yeah yeah so but if you i don't think it would help you because
[2:55:37 - 2:55:44] ▶
it's not like you know the way we try to synthesize um you know new elements is you know taking ions and
[2:55:44 - 2:55:52] ▶
smashing them together and it's kind of whatever comes out comes out it's not like you can go
[2:55:52 - 2:55:57] ▶
we're gonna make a specific isotope and make it all stick together it's just like you know it's the old
[2:55:57 - 2:56:04] ▶
smashing the swiss watch against a concrete wall oh look what came out you know that's it if you
[2:56:04 - 2:56:09] ▶
possibly took a little bit home though could you do some of those techniques and do it good you
[2:56:09 - 2:56:14] ▶
couldn't because you don't have i can't yeah you need the equipment i mean you need the equipment like
[2:56:14 - 2:56:21] ▶
you know accelerators and yeah things that that's so you don't have something like that so you wouldn't
[2:56:21 - 2:56:26] ▶
have the stable isotope at home or you do or maybe well i don't have it at my house okay but that's what
[2:56:26 - 2:56:34] ▶
you're asking but you didn't you at one point maybe take it home yeah so that but then are we
[2:56:34 - 2:56:41] ▶
recording yeah but no um so no okay okay okay yeah but then can't but then can you figure out the isotope
[2:56:41 - 2:56:52] ▶
if theoretically you did or no yeah okay yeah you could all i'd have to do is have it again okay oh i see
[2:56:53 - 2:57:02] ▶
i hosted a debate uh between eric weinstein and eric davis eric weinstein's this former colleague of mine
[2:57:13 - 2:57:19] ▶
who's a physicist and then eric davis is this other guy in ufo world who focuses on exotic propulsion
[2:57:19 - 2:57:25] ▶
weinstein said that he did he was kind of exasperated he was like why are there no physics theoretical
[2:57:25 - 2:57:31] ▶
physicists on the program but you talk about theoretical physicists on site at s4 oh for sure
[2:57:31 - 2:57:37] ▶
okay i think they were exhausted by him and i think they they kept going over that road and never got
[2:57:37 - 2:57:44] ▶
anywhere interesting and they were they were looking for just let's just do something out of left field
[2:57:44 - 2:57:49] ▶
and see what we come up with so um no i don't know again that's what made me think this isn't gravity at
[2:57:49 - 2:57:57] ▶
all of this is a new force entirely yeah and you know what i found interesting too is you said
[2:57:57 - 2:58:02] ▶
bismuth seemed to have come up like that was something there is something about bismuth
[2:58:02 - 2:58:07] ▶
you might be starting to notice a through line starting to emerge in this conversation and it
[2:58:11 - 2:58:16] ▶
keeps leading back to the same place to put it bluntly bob's work at s4 looks a whole lot like all
[2:58:16 - 2:58:24] ▶
of the documented knowledge we have on anti-gravity experiments done in the last 100 years now again
[2:58:24 - 2:58:30] ▶
these claims don't lie in the realm of conventional proven science but while there's no proverbial fire
[2:58:30 - 2:58:37] ▶
there is a whole lot of smoke around them i'm talking not only of the experiments of townsend brown
[2:58:37 - 2:58:43] ▶
but of eugene pakletinoff ning lee and others and one single element might tie all of these stories
[2:58:43 - 2:58:50] ▶
together bismuth there's a reason why bob lazar kept hearing about it at s4 here's why bismuth
[2:58:50 - 2:58:58] ▶
matters we'll break down the science as clearly as we can it starts with something called a k factor
[2:58:58 - 2:59:05] ▶
a k factor or dielectric constant is simply a material's ability to store and discharge electric
[2:59:05 - 2:59:11] ▶
fields now this has important implications for historical anti-gravity experiments you see the higher
[2:59:11 - 2:59:17] ▶
the k factor the more thrust or propulsion you see in townsend brown's capacitor experiments brown spent
[2:59:17 - 2:59:24] ▶
his career searching for high k materials that could amplify the effect he'd discovered bismuth is one of
[2:59:24 - 2:59:30] ▶
them and it's often mentioned in the context of his anti-gravity work there's even an interview from this
[2:59:30 - 2:59:36] ▶
guy lewis witten who's at rias which is martin corporation pre-lockheed merger their um anti-gravity
[2:59:36 - 2:59:44] ▶
outfit where they were studying sort of the most exotic propulsion modalities and he says in this
[2:59:44 - 2:59:48] ▶
interview with the american institute of physics there's a guy named townsend who claimed to have
[2:59:48 - 2:59:54] ▶
an isotope of bismuth that repelled instead of attracted material that works well for historical
[2:59:54 - 3:00:01] ▶
anti-gravity experiments comes up in the ufo reverse engineering program go figure but it gets weirder
[3:00:01 - 3:00:08] ▶
bismuth and element 115 muscovium share the same number of valence electrons valence electrons are
[3:00:08 - 3:00:16] ▶
the electrons in the outermost shell of an atom the ones that determine how an element bonds reacts
[3:00:16 - 3:00:22] ▶
and behaves chemically bismuth has five muscovium or element 115 has five they sit in the same column
[3:00:22 - 3:00:31] ▶
of the periodic table group 15 which means they have essentially the same chemical personality the same
[3:00:31 - 3:00:37] ▶
bonding geometry the same family of crystal structures the same tendency to form the layered compounds
[3:00:37 - 3:00:44] ▶
that produce the most exotic quantum behavior known to material science lazar described element 115 as the
[3:00:44 - 3:00:51] ▶
fuel source for the craft's propulsion system mind you this was in 1989 before element 115 had ever been
[3:00:51 - 3:00:59] ▶
synthesized or named when it finally was synthesized in 2003 it turned out to be a nictogen a group 15
[3:00:59 - 3:01:07] ▶
element the same chemical family as bismuth and bismuth is basically the most electromagnetically
[3:01:07 - 3:01:13] ▶
bizarre stable element on earth that's either the most chemically literate lucky guess in history
[3:01:13 - 3:01:19] ▶
or it isn't a guess at all now here's where the science gets genuinely strange bismuth is one of the
[3:01:19 - 3:01:25] ▶
most unusual elements on the periodic table most high k materials are passive they sit there holding charge and do
[3:01:25 - 3:01:33] ▶
nothing else bismuth is different it fights back expose bismuth to a magnetic field and instead of being
[3:01:33 - 3:01:41] ▶
attracted the way iron pushes towards a magnet it pushes away this property is called diamagnetism and
[3:01:41 - 3:01:49] ▶
bismuth has more of it than any other stable element on earth not slightly more dramatically anomalously
[3:01:49 - 3:01:56] ▶
inexplicably more the reason lives inside the atom itself every electron does two things simultaneously
[3:01:56 - 3:02:06] ▶
it orbits the nucleus like a planet around a star and it spins on its own axis like a tiny top in lighter
[3:02:06 - 3:02:14] ▶
elements these two motions barely register each other but bismuth sits near the bottom of the periodic
[3:02:14 - 3:02:20] ▶
table at element 83 one of the heaviest stable elements that exists and in super heavy elements
[3:02:20 - 3:02:27] ▶
something extraordinary happens the electrons in the outer shell move so fast that they enter what
[3:02:27 - 3:02:33] ▶
physicists call the relativistic regime they're traveling at a meaningful fraction of the speed of
[3:02:33 - 3:02:39] ▶
light and when something moves that fast the universe starts playing by different rules at those speeds
[3:02:39 - 3:02:46] ▶
einstein's physics takes over from newton's one consequence is that these screaming hurling outer
[3:02:46 - 3:02:52] ▶
electrons generate a powerful magnetic field just from their own motion and that magnetic field slams
[3:02:52 - 3:02:59] ▶
into their own spin this is a process called spin orbit coupling and in bismuth it's ferociously strong
[3:02:59 - 3:03:07] ▶
so strong that bismuth's electrons become in a sense magnetically self-aware
[3:03:07 - 3:03:12] ▶
generating an opposing field in response to anything applied to them from the outside so that's why
[3:03:16 - 3:03:22] ▶
bismuth has anomalous diamagnetism the electrons aren't just passive they're pushing back the most
[3:03:22 - 3:03:29] ▶
amazing thing is leaning into it putting all your force on that nothing moves at all and when the reactor's
[3:03:29 - 3:03:37] ▶
off you can easily slide it this also makes bismuth a natural topological doping meaning when you
[3:03:37 - 3:03:43] ▶
introduce it into certain crystalline materials it induces what physicists call topologically
[3:03:43 - 3:03:49] ▶
protected quantum states these are electron states so geometrically locked into the structure of the
[3:03:49 - 3:03:56] ▶
material that they can't be destroyed by disorder or impurities they are in a very real sense protected
[3:03:56 - 3:04:03] ▶
by the shape of reality itself element 115 with the same five outer electrons as bismuth would have
[3:04:03 - 3:04:11] ▶
dramatically stronger relativistic effects and it would theoretically be an even more powerful
[3:04:11 - 3:04:16] ▶
topological doping best hosted physicists predict and chalcogenide crystal structures which happen to
[3:04:16 - 3:04:23] ▶
be the exact crystal family that bismuth based topological insulators already prefer same column same
[3:04:23 - 3:04:31] ▶
electrons the dial just turned up to a level we've never engineered
[3:04:31 - 3:04:35] ▶
okay i know what you're thinking how do you get from this exotic chemistry jargon to ufo propulsion
[3:04:41 - 3:04:47] ▶
or a force that bends space-time well here's where the chemistry ends and something bigger begins
[3:04:47 - 3:04:53] ▶
in einstein's general relativity energy and momentum in all forms including the energy stored in fast
[3:04:54 - 3:05:01] ▶
spinning relativistic electrons technically curves spacetime every electron is in the most
[3:05:01 - 3:05:08] ▶
literal physical sense warping the fabric of the universe around it
[3:05:08 - 3:05:12] ▶
now for ordinary matter this effect is so incomprehensibly tiny it effectively doesn't exist but a small
[3:05:19 - 3:05:27] ▶
group of serious physicists began asking dangerous questions in the 1990s what if instead of spinning
[3:05:27 - 3:05:34] ▶
randomly in all directions their gravitational effects canceling each other into noise you could align them
[3:05:34 - 3:05:41] ▶
into a single coherent state all pointing in the same direction all pushing together this was the life's
[3:05:41 - 3:05:49] ▶
work of dr ning lee a physicist who dared to dabble in anti-gravity more specifically she worked
[3:05:49 - 3:05:57] ▶
in gravito magnetic theory lee was a woman who eventually left her position at the university
[3:05:57 - 3:06:03] ▶
of alabama huntsville to work full-time at redstone arsenal on research so sensitive it effectively
[3:06:03 - 3:06:09] ▶
vanished from public view and the chair of her department at university of alabama huntsville larry
[3:06:09 - 3:06:15] ▶
smalley was so high conviction in her work that he left with her before she died lee proposed that in
[3:06:15 - 3:06:22] ▶
superconductors materials where electrons surrender their individual identities and merge into a
[3:06:22 - 3:06:28] ▶
collective quantum state the gravitomagnetic effect of those electrons normally washed away by thermal chaos
[3:06:28 - 3:06:36] ▶
would suddenly snap into alignment they'd become coherent directional she was trying to build a gravity
[3:06:36 - 3:06:43] ▶
engine in a laboratory let's compare that with bob lazar's work on ufos in the 80s years before ning lee's
[3:06:43 - 3:06:50] ▶
work ever became public lazar described three cylindrical emitters at the base of a craft the
[3:06:50 - 3:06:56] ▶
emitters at the base of lazar's craft didn't produce thrust in the traditional sense they didn't push
[3:06:56 - 3:07:02] ▶
against air or expel mass they generated a directed alteration of the gravitational field itself that the
[3:07:02 - 3:07:10] ▶
craft would then just fall into not propulsion geometry the craft didn't move through space it literally
[3:07:10 - 3:07:18] ▶
bent space and space carried it that description organized field generating devices producing a
[3:07:18 - 3:07:24] ▶
directional gravitational effect by aligning and focusing a force that normally cancels itself to zero
[3:07:24 - 3:07:31] ▶
is structurally almost precisely what ning lee was theorizing in a laboratory thousands of miles away
[3:07:31 - 3:07:38] ▶
using completely different source material arriving at exactly the same place years later when the craft is
[3:07:38 - 3:07:45] ▶
in operation there is a high voltage detectable on on the skin of the craft and then there's the hull of
[3:07:45 - 3:07:52] ▶
the craft lazar said that he believed the craft's whole material was an electorate basically a material
[3:07:52 - 3:07:58] ▶
that permanently stores an electric field the electrical equivalent of a permanent magnet i think the
[3:07:58 - 3:08:04] ▶
material the craft is made from is an electric and so it always just like a a magnet always has a magnetic
[3:08:04 - 3:08:13] ▶
field to it an electric always has an electrostatic field to it interesting and i think that's
[3:08:13 - 3:08:18] ▶
certainly something important again bismuth titanate is one of the finest electric materials known used in
[3:08:18 - 3:08:26] ▶
high temperature sensor applications precisely because of its stability now if you were designing a whole
[3:08:26 - 3:08:31] ▶
material for a craft that needed to interact with gravity wave emitters maintain a permanent electric field
[3:08:31 - 3:08:38] ▶
and respond to both electric and magnetic stimuli simultaneously the material that checks every
[3:08:38 - 3:08:45] ▶
single box is bismuth ferrite that's right again with the bismuth it's a material that is simultaneously
[3:08:45 - 3:08:52] ▶
ferroelectric and magnetic where the two properties talk to each other where you can control one with the
[3:08:52 - 3:08:59] ▶
other no other readily available material sits at the intersection of diamagnetism topological insulator
[3:08:59 - 3:09:06] ▶
behavior behavior high k dielectrics electric properties and multi-ferroic coupling simultaneously but
[3:09:06 - 3:09:13] ▶
bismuth does and a theoretical stable version of element 115 might do all of those things on steroids
[3:09:13 - 3:09:21] ▶
bismuth sits right at the edge of where relativistic electron behavior begins to dominate everything
[3:09:21 - 3:09:27] ▶
by the time you get to muscovium you might have full-fledged space-time engineering and then what's
[3:09:27 - 3:09:38] ▶
really interesting is um gary nolan has this magnesium bismuth piece in his lab at stanford you'd need
[3:09:38 - 3:09:45] ▶
uh some sort of motive to you know with in certain cases heavier elements uh create isotope ratios that you
[3:09:45 - 3:09:52] ▶
just don't find it doesn't make any sense from like and then it also the thing was found alongside
[3:09:52 - 3:09:58] ▶
of like an observed anomaly in the sky in a crash and it was like in the 50s or 60s like one of one of
[3:09:58 - 3:10:04] ▶
which was literally a beach in brazil uh ubatuba and the similarity between brown and bueller's
[3:10:04 - 3:10:11] ▶
anti-gravity and lazar's sports model don't stop there brown would use dc pulsing and like you know kind
[3:10:11 - 3:10:18] ▶
of high climb rates of the voltage so that the voltage would there'd be a steep climb rate where
[3:10:18 - 3:10:23] ▶
it would you know increase very very sharply the micro sizing waveguides for terahertz you could have
[3:10:23 - 3:10:29] ▶
very high frequency you know energy going into the craft there's something about bismuth i think that's
[3:10:29 - 3:10:36] ▶
yes that yeah that's undiscovered yes and and uh so much that we're unable to do because it's at the
[3:10:36 - 3:10:45] ▶
limit you know of our technology bismuth at s4 bismuth in townsend brown's experiments bismuth's
[3:10:45 - 3:10:53] ▶
properties in ning lee's gravito magnetic theory bismuth as an ideal hull material for a ufo exactly
[3:10:53 - 3:11:00] ▶
like the one lazar described bismuth in the ufo samples that stanford professor gary nolan is
[3:11:00 - 3:11:07] ▶
analyzing right now the preponderance of evidence now and the department of defense admitting that these
[3:11:07 - 3:11:14] ▶
things are real that the data is real not what the there's no conclusions yeah um the data is real
[3:11:14 - 3:11:23] ▶
there's so much more than there was 40 years ago yeah i mean all these guys are at the cunning edge
[3:11:28 - 3:11:34] ▶
all my information is so old and probably outdated so who knows how the craft operate now or what kind
[3:11:34 - 3:11:41] ▶
of craft they're using or if they're even manned so um that's true i i think everything i know is
[3:11:41 - 3:11:48] ▶
outdated it's just interesting to look back at i don't take any money from this stuff and as far as
[3:11:48 - 3:11:54] ▶
attention i hate f**king attention i don't like being on shows i just want to kind of hide in the corner
[3:11:54 - 3:12:02] ▶
and do my own thing so that's i got enough hugs when i was a kid
[3:12:02 - 3:12:06] ▶
and do you do you feel like you've you know on the first rogan episode you had migraines do you feel
[3:12:06 - 3:12:16] ▶
like you've suffered like your anxiety levels are higher than they would be having five heart attacks
[3:12:16 - 3:12:23] ▶
since i was on the hope rogan's and and my arteries are clear it's all stress i'm sorry i just had uh
[3:12:23 - 3:12:32] ▶
um shingles all through my face almost made me go blind again was from stress it's um yeah it's just
[3:12:32 - 3:12:41] ▶
just wears you down over time i hope you know you're you're loved and appreciated and uh you should be
[3:12:41 - 3:12:47] ▶
able to just zone out the world with where you're at in life right now and just enjoy the the fruits of
[3:12:47 - 3:12:52] ▶
this you know amazing that would be cool i am so hoping to be able to retire at some point where i don't
[3:12:52 - 3:13:00] ▶
have to deal with insane customers or yeah yeah i could just sit at home and read books like this
[3:13:00 - 3:13:07] ▶
and yeah i think that time is very very soon and i think it's the best use of your brain power too
[3:13:07 - 3:13:13] ▶
because i want to see i'd actually like to get back into this stuff that'd be amazing well i'll send you
[3:13:13 - 3:13:18] ▶
interesting people okay yeah well i'll yeah i'll consume everything you can send i love it oh yeah
[3:13:18 - 3:13:25] ▶
yeah to be careful what you wish for um well bob luigi this was a total honor and you should be so
[3:13:25 - 3:13:34] ▶
proud because i know you were into this stuff i feel very lucky when people say like oh like you
[3:13:34 - 3:13:42] ▶
should feel vindicated they'll say that to me and i'm like what the are you talking i was like i got
[3:13:42 - 3:13:46] ▶
very lucky with the timing of like when i got into this stuff but truly i speak to you and i'm like
[3:13:46 - 3:13:53] ▶
oh my god like the there are people like yourself who have been into this stuff for decades in a
[3:13:53 - 3:14:00] ▶
totally thankless way like not only thankless but less than thank less than thankless ostracized exiled
[3:14:00 - 3:14:08] ▶
laughed at constantly and so to anybody out there saying luigi's cashing in on a you know movie or
[3:14:08 - 3:14:17] ▶
something like that off like you don't know what you're talking about it is it's it's poetic justice
[3:14:17 - 3:14:24] ▶
and karma that you made this movie truly so i want you to know that that i appreciate that yeah man did
[3:14:24 - 3:14:30] ▶
you ever think that we'd be here now that like we'd be you know on on our podcast watching you on
[3:14:30 - 3:14:38] ▶
joe rogan with bob yesterday hi when you guys were talking i was reading a message from my sister
[3:14:38 - 3:14:48] ▶
veronica who's been it's hard for me to see it that way because you can't imagine everything that
[3:14:49 - 3:14:58] ▶
happened and for me to get it from her is like the biggest success because i put her in danger
[3:14:58 - 3:15:08] ▶
because of this and i didn't know if it was gonna work i don't i still don't know where it's going but
[3:15:09 - 3:15:16] ▶
we we just went for it knowing that you know all the past there's a lot of negative associated to it
[3:15:19 - 3:15:27] ▶
and i'm so proud of the team i'm proud of chris matto that's like my right hand and all it wouldn't
[3:15:27 - 3:15:35] ▶
exist if it wasn't for chris it wouldn't exist if it wasn't for veronica it wouldn't exist if it
[3:15:35 - 3:15:42] ▶
wasn't for emily that was at the office taking care of everything she we all know who that is it wouldn't
[3:15:42 - 3:15:48] ▶
exist for vanessa to be doing all this minutia work online and finding all we wouldn't have found the
[3:15:48 - 3:15:54] ▶
ed teller tape if it wasn't for vanessa and this was scary this is this project depleted your company
[3:15:54 - 3:16:03] ▶
to zero to zero and we were attacked nobody knows this but we were attacked ferociously for over a
[3:16:03 - 3:16:11] ▶
year and a half yeah and we're i know the full story and we probably can't get too into the weeds but
[3:16:11 - 3:16:18] ▶
i'll just say high level there was some really crazy scary that occurred with you on an institutional
[3:16:18 - 3:16:27] ▶
yeah like debanking level kind of thing big time where it's like what sort of power do these people
[3:16:27 - 3:16:35] ▶
have as far as the antibodies you know going against you and unbelievable stuff yeah stuff that all the
[3:16:35 - 3:16:42] ▶
if you say it it sounds so crazy that you don't want to say it because people won't yeah they're like
[3:16:45 - 3:16:51] ▶
give me a break come on yeah have you have you experienced that your whole life have you experienced
[3:16:51 - 3:16:56] ▶
like little things oh yeah yeah any but i didn't expect this to happen to luigi yeah not coming from
[3:16:56 - 3:17:02] ▶
those people yeah getting you know re demanding luigi we want all your communications with bob lazar yeah
[3:17:02 - 3:17:10] ▶
on a court document on a court on a court document yeah we weren't what the hell are you talking about
[3:17:10 - 3:17:15] ▶
yeah have you ever gotten something like sir we can't accept your payment here you're like what
[3:17:15 - 3:17:20] ▶
anything like that it's a little weird what do you mean we can't accept like something like that
[3:17:20 - 3:17:26] ▶
you know something like there's something going on in the background of some routine thing you're
[3:17:26 - 3:17:31] ▶
trying to do go to a bank you go to you know a store or something we're just we don't want to deal
[3:17:31 - 3:17:35] ▶
with we don't want to deal with you and you're like why yeah i mean that has that that was a long time
[3:17:35 - 3:17:41] ▶
ago a couple things like that happened decades ago do you remember nothing now i don't remember
[3:17:41 - 3:17:45] ▶
specifically but people kind of messing but yeah on an official level they said you know you're
[3:17:46 - 3:17:51] ▶
radioactive we don't want to deal with you that's tough man well you found the one the one gig you
[3:17:51 - 3:17:57] ▶
could get which is selling this you know sort of a lot of this crazy stuff too it's cool well this
[3:17:57 - 3:18:04] ▶
has been such an honor i i really appreciate you both and um it's always fun coming it's always fun jesse
[3:18:04 - 3:18:11] ▶
it's always great man okay so there are orange reddish ufos that have been flying around area 51
[3:18:11 - 3:18:19] ▶
since the 80s and 90s that wobble like they're on a wave at low altitudes the sports model ufo bob
[3:18:19 - 3:18:26] ▶
worked on might use principles similar to documented anti-gravity research and crafts of non-human origin
[3:18:26 - 3:18:33] ▶
are being recovered at the bottom of our oceans all over the world by the navy bob lazar will either be
[3:18:33 - 3:18:40] ▶
forgotten entirely by history as he predicts or as i predict he'll be heralded as a canary in the coal
[3:18:40 - 3:18:47] ▶
mine the forerunner in a stampede of revolutionary new science whether you believe or disbelieve his
[3:18:47 - 3:18:54] ▶
story it should be treated as a puzzle with very real truths underlying it meant to be discovered by
[3:18:54 - 3:19:00] ▶
those who take the initiative so if you think there's something to any of this don't let up as the
[3:19:00 - 3:19:06] ▶
first man on the moon neil armstrong once cryptically said there are great ideas undiscovered
[3:19:06 - 3:19:12] ▶
breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers layers layers
[3:19:14 - 3:19:22] ▶
if you're still watching and you made it through all of the exotic ufo science you're one of the
[3:19:22 - 3:19:38] ▶
first to hear about this we just dropped a new limited merch collection two t's one off-white one
[3:19:38 - 3:19:45] ▶
vintage black plus hat the design has a timeless retro future feel you can wear it every day if
[3:19:45 - 3:19:52] ▶
you've been watching the show lately you've probably already seen me wearing it this is a limited run so
[3:19:52 - 3:19:57] ▶
when it's gone it's gone head to americanalchemymerch.com to grab the believe drop today and while you're
[3:19:57 - 3:20:05] ▶
there the cowboy ufot is a fan favorite we always keep in stock along with the atomic age design thank you
[3:20:05 - 3:20:12] ▶
all so much for following and supporting the show
[3:20:12 - 3:20:26] ▶