308 segments
So a viral CIA document has just resurfaced online.
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It's blowing up with some fresh entry.
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The declassified file posted on the CIA's website describes a bizarre cold war era incident
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involving a supposed alien attack on Soviet soldiers.
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According to the report, which draws from the Canadian and Ukrainian sources, Soviet troops
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allegedly shot down a UFO during a training exercise sometime around 1989 or 1990.
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We'll tell you all about how crazy this thing unfolds here in just a second.
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I want to save that for you in a second.
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But today we've got filmmaker UFO investigator James Fox joining us.
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You know him from documentaries like Moment of Contact and the phenomenon, which dig deep
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into some of the most compelling UFO encounters on record.
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And his latest is called the program.
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James, let me just show a little teaser here before I say hello to you.
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Here is the program.
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In 2017, the New York Times published a story exposing a secret government program investigating
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That story was kind of a catalyst for a lot of things that have happened since.
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Members of Congress started to ask questions.
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Instruments report there is something there.
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There are flight characteristics that we can't explain.
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UAPs are unexplained.
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They need to be investigated.
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Here we are having a hearing where just a few years ago, we didn't even acknowledge
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that these things were real.
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There is James Fox is the man behind these great documentaries.
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And he's a fantastic UFO investigator.
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And James, I always what I love about your work is you come out of from a real thing.
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Almost like I should say skeptical point of view and a real clear headed point of view
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when you approach these stories.
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So I wanted to have you on because this story seemed like right up your alley.
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First maybe you want to give a maybe paint a picture for us.
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But you think of this story, the CIA document from that's resurfaced.
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So one thing that I can say, obviously we're looking at a document that was previously classified
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George NAP has a bunch of previously classified documents that he sort of snuck out
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of Russia in the mid 90s that revealed incursions from UFOs over, you know, ICM, ICBM base
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in Ukraine where the UFOs are allegedly activated.
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A couple missiles that were directed in the United States and started a missile launch,
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a missile launch, which was terrifying.
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And then after I guess that, the Russians developed a no hands down, no shoot policy against
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UFOs because of obviously their displayed or their exhibited technology flies rings
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around what we can do.
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But I will say I did speak directly with a general Parvice Jaffari in Tehran Iran who
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had a really dramatic encounter with the UFO in 1975 or 76 and he tried to shoot it out
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Very famous incident and I spoke to him personally.
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I flew him into Washington DC to testify at the National Press Club with Leslie Kane.
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And he said that he thought he was going to have to jump out of his airplane in the middle
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of the night because this UFO froze everything in his cockpit.
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And like it read his mind as he was about to shoot this thing, he's going to literally
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as it in his sights is going to pull the trigger and his airplane just completely freezes
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So there was a policy adopted.
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I think internationally when you see UFOs don't take a hostile aggressive position just
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leave alone and they won't bother you.
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So I got to read that.
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Also that's kind of ballsy though to think about even shooting it.
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Did he tell you why he thought to do that?
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Will he be present towards him?
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Well, no because he said, you know, when you see something as you're trained as a military
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person, a fighter pilot, when you see something in the sky, they are unable to identify
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and it's not revealing its identity, you got to shoot it out of the sky.
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You have to think of it as potentially hostile.
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And of this thing, apparently was flying rings around his F4 Phantom jet, but he got a lock
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on it and he was literally say it was a bead way from pulling trigger to try to shoot
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this thing out of the sky.
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And that's when all hell broke loose.
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So question if they can read his mind, why can't they teleport or telepathically say,
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We're not doing, you know, like this is just so many questions.
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It's really interesting.
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You know, I interviewed this gentleman years later, I flew him out to Washington, DC,
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along with another, a number of other military and government officials from seven countries.
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And he was reflecting back on the incident and he said, you know, James, one of my biggest
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regrets was I didn't try and make peaceful contact with this thing.
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Instead, I took an aggressive hostile approach and tried to shoot it out of the sky when
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it wasn't threatening me in any way.
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And it's interesting, you know, there are other documents that have leaked out since that
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alleged incident in, I think it was late.
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Well, gosh, it was actually late 80s, but there was a landing case that happened in Moscow.
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I'm trying to remember the name of it, Von Esch, Von Aneth 1989.
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And these aliens allegedly made contact with children.
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And that happens all around the world.
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So you wonder if the military is going to take a hostile position, perhaps, and if you
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did want to make contact, and again, I'm speculating, but it's informed speculation,
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I would probably rather make contact with children than fighter jets.
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So I want to go through this document a little bit here, the CIA document here.
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So what, I mean, what is read like, it reads like science fiction, but according to
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the CIA document, five humanoid beings reportedly emerged from the wreckage.
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They fused together and then they admitted a blinding flash of light.
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Then they allegedly turned down apparently, which is even more amazing.
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Then they turned after they were shot down, they turned 23 soldiers into stone.
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Only two men survived.
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The remains were reportedly moved to a secret lab near Moscow where science has found the
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soldier's molecular structure match that of limestone.
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What the, I mean, I've heard a lot of UFO stories over the years.
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Of course, I'm fascinated by it, but I've never heard of a story like this.
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I've heard, I could, I could tell you of dozens and dozens of close encounters of the
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That's when people report entities connected with the craft all around the world.
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China, Russia, Australia, Africa, Brazil.
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I mean, United States, we've had amazing close encounters of a third kind.
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It's extremely well documented.
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But people taking aggressive position towards alleged aliens and then being turned to stone,
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I mean, Natalie brings up a re-point Greek mythology.
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I mean, maybe, you know, you turn on ancient aliens.
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You can certainly see a lot of connections between things that have happened thousands
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I mean, I don't want to make a huge leap here, but maybe there is something there.
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Look, you know, you look at Jacques Vallet, who's one of the intellectual heavyweights within
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scientific community, who's investigated UFO reports for his entire career in his 80s.
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He wrote a book called Wonders in the Sky.
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And it basically documents since recorded time.
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These alleged close encounters of the third kind, close encounters of the second kind,
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And just dating back thousands and thousands of years.
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So it's my opinion and opinion of many other researchers that the phenomenon is nothing
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It's been interacting with humanity for since the dawn of recorded time.
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We're didn't come down on disclosure right now.
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And what you're seeing from the Trump administration, I've represented, you know, we had represented
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of Luna on the show.
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We had Congressman Birchett on the show a few weeks ago.
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I mean, all trying to move in this direction.
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But I think Americans get, you know, get like stuck in the mud like, where are we with
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You've been a huge asset to help in this as well.
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That's a fantastic question.
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And that's one of the, one of the things I've been addressing because people I think are
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feeling really frustrated within the UFO community, like you've gotten.
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We've had three congressional hearings in the last three years, two of which we've had
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high level intelligence officers testify to a bipartisan group of lawmakers under oath.
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There are consequences for lying to Congress under oath that we have a crash retrieval program
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that we are in possession of definitive proof that we are not alone.
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Now, those are some really lofty allegations that the implications are so profound that
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we owe it to ourselves to continue this push for transparency, support the lawmakers.
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So what I've been doing, I feature a couple of people that are apparently firsthand witnesses
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in the program, this film that I've got out right now.
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And I'm asking them, it's really frustrating when you tell us there's so many things that
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you can't say on camera, what is it going to take?
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And essentially, what I'm getting is President Trump can wave the magic wand with an executive
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order and relieve us of our NDAs and free from violating our national security oaths and
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I'll give you the street addresses.
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So that's where this is heading.
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And I think that, you know, there's, I've got a, we have a few projects.
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You basically want to hand the administration on a platter, excuse me, the names of these
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individuals and to say, hey, wave the magic wand, they'll give you the street addresses.
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Well, I think, I think that's what it's going to have to take because you're right.
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We get, we get all, we get, you know, we get the grushes up there.
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We get these other people who tell us about the crash retrieval program.
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We hear about these recovered biologics or bodies.
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We sell us on to others, testifying before Congress.
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And then you have these, you, you, you, you Congress sort of budding heads with the Pentagon
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Like, what can we declassify?
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What can we admit to the American people?
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And President Trump has said on day one, full transparency.
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So it, is it going to, it's going to fully, I guess, come down to him with a pin.
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So very interesting.
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I had a meeting with the new head of arrow, John Kloske.
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And there were certain aspects of the meeting that I was not allowed to talk about public
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because it's kind of an ongoing investigation.
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But one of the things he said to me, which I thought particularly interesting was, look,
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he said, I can't like cut my own hair or, you know, style my own hairdo without the approval
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So my hands are tied.
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In a sense, he's saying, no matter what we uncover, no matter what, like conclusions
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that we draw based on our investigations for Congress, our hands are tied.
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If, if DOD doesn't approve it, we can't release that, right?
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Now this is interesting because you got David Grush who testified on a road, right?
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And he's like, I gave all the details needed to verify these accusations, these allegations
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to Thomas Monheim, who was the ICIG, intelligence community inspector general time, or one
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And it's amazing to me that he says that and we're, how come the media hasn't tried to follow
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You know, get an interview with Thomas Monheim.
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He apparently he has the street addresses.
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He has all the details that we need to verify these.
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And the DOD took the clearances away from Grush because they knew that if Grush could
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get into a skiff with members of select members of Congress, he would reveal all those details
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that he can't say publicly.
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And Congress isn't known for keeping secrets so it would leak out.
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So Grush was stripped.
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And I don't know if he's gotten him back since then, but I know that he was stripped of
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What do you say to people?
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Because I always see this in our chat, you know, we're live right now in front of tens
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of thousands of people.
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And occasionally I'll see someone in the chat room just say, this is all a siaop.
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When you've been so deeply involved in this for generations of research, what do you say
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to someone who says, this is all a siaop, James?
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I think that's, I completely understand that position and I've actually explained this
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to people in the past.
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And the reasons why I aligned with David Grush when he was testifying under oath.
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In fact, I had tears pouring down my face because I had just done a crash retrieval case
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that I spent 15 years investigating that took place in Virginia, Brazil in 1996.
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And after I think 12 or 13 years, it came to my attention through very compelling eyewitness
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testimony that the Americans were involved.
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The Americans flew in, the gentleman called it Usaf, United States Air Force flew in without
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Brazilian government authorization landed their plane in this exact area where this stuff
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was recovered, loaded some stuff up and flew back to the United States all secret below
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And I was going, oh my gosh, the Americans were involved.
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I can't believe this.
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So what David Grush has said aligns with my 30 plus years of research in countries all
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And so if I didn't have that field research, I might say, okay, I might, I can see, but
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I'm also meeting with these intel folks that are complaining about excessive secrecy and
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putting their putting their selves, you know, potential harms way by, you know, trying
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to get this information out.
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Remind your audience because people go, oh, the government just started, you had a piphany
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out of nowhere and decided that the general public needs to know more about UFOs.
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That's not what happened.
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There were a couple of incident, government insiders or intel insiders that decided through
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protest of excessive secrecy to walk some evidence, found a loophole, walks some evidence,
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but it was risky out of the Pentagon and on the front page of the New York Times.
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And that is why they'd not be able to put the genie back in the bottle.
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It's made, you know, elected representatives aware of like, oh my gosh, maybe there's
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a lot more to UFOs than then swamp gas and misidentified aircraft.
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And now, you know, in the program, now we've got a gentleman who sat in with senators
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with alleged firsthand witnesses on the program that are actually the metal benders, people
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that are working on this stuff in labs underground.
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And yeah, we're living in exciting times, but our representative need to hear from us.
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They need to hear from us that we support these efforts.
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Well, we're going to have Congressman Luna back on here.
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We talked about her being back on to talk specifically about UFOs.
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So maybe we could get the two of you on.
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I'd love to have both of you on simultaneously.
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I'm working with firsthand witnesses that want, they want to be able to tell the public.
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In fact, one of them said to me, I'm doing this for my grandchildren.
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This is why I'm coming forward.
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I don't want my grandchildren to grow up.
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Not knowing the truth.
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A lot of them, I was just going to say it.
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I mean, to cut you up, but a lot of them, you know, on their deathbeds, you know,
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who served in the military and were a part of these programs finally admitted.
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They were sworn to secrecy under classified.
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They told their kids when they were dying.
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So you know, we need to get past this.
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I just want to say James, I love your work.
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I if one of my favorite movies, one of my favorite documentaries is the phenomenon.
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I haven't yet seen the program.
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I've just been, we've been moving and building the new studio.
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So that's on my sort of when I've finally done with all that hard work.
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I'm going to sit down and enjoy myself and watch your newest, newest film.
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And really excited to see that.
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So just amazing work.
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I highly recommend our audience go check out your documentaries.
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Where's the best place they can find them?
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Are they on available to buy or they really rent them?
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Amazon, you can rent it.
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You can rent the program on Amazon for a few bucks.
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You can go to Apple TV.
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And then moment of contact and the phenomenon are available on a few free streaming sites
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You can just Google the phenomenon moment of contact and the program, which is just
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came out a couple months ago.
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And that's on Amazon and it's on Apple TV.
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Well, James, James Fox has been a thrill.
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I'd love to do or have you back?
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We'll do a deep dive interview if you're scheduled.
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Allows it in the next couple of weeks.
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I really appreciate you guys having me on.
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Thank you very much.
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And by the way, I'm going to say this to my wife, James, I want to join you.
[0:16:35 - 0:16:37] ▶
Look on a if you go on a big assignment somewhere where you need somebody to come
[0:16:37 - 0:16:41] ▶
This is not news to Natalie.
[0:16:42 - 0:16:43] ▶
We've been married 15 years.
[0:16:44 - 0:16:47] ▶
I said, if I, yeah, I will bring you, I will bring you to Brazil.
[0:16:47 - 0:16:50] ▶
Yes, I would love to.
[0:16:51 - 0:16:53] ▶
Yes, I speak the language.
[0:16:56 - 0:16:58] ▶
So I would be better.
[0:16:58 - 0:16:59] ▶
James, great to see you.
[0:17:00 - 0:17:02] ▶
Thank you so much for your incredible work.
[0:17:02 - 0:17:04] ▶
And yeah, we'd love to have you back on here.
[0:17:04 - 0:17:05] ▶
We'll do a deep dive.
[0:17:05 - 0:17:06] ▶
We'll get you on with Congressman Luna for our schedule is aligned.
[0:17:06 - 0:17:08] ▶
And I appreciate very much what you guys do.
[0:17:11 - 0:17:13] ▶
And thank you for having me on.
[0:17:13 - 0:17:14] ▶