3,224 segments
Many people believe it's a extraterrestrial.
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A strange creature was captured and then...
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I can't think of a crash retrieval case
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with live aliens better than Virginia.
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Every single bit of testimony from separate people
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from all over the area, all fits perfectly.
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It's like putting together a piece of puzzle, right?
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I think if this were a murder case,
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you'd have more than enough evidence.
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This one, right here.
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The alien was alive in this bed right there.
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Knowing that you sat in the hospital room
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with a live captured alien
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and had direct telepathic communication.
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You have the autopsy of this soldier
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who's died because he basically grabbed an alien being.
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Every time I say something's impossible,
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therefore, you know, it can't be, therefore, it isn't.
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I've been proven along.
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I'm here, round two, with James Fox,
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who I always say is my documentarian hero.
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And I just really appreciate you coming here
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because we're talking about, I think,
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maybe the most interesting case where you have a UFO,
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you have alien beings, and you have all of these witnesses
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in a town in Brazil, in Varginia, Brazil, as late as 1996.
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We're not talking about Roswell, 70-plus years ago.
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Or Magenta, you know, 90 years ago.
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And you've just done an amazing job in this movie
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of documenting all of the, literally, the flight path of the UFO.
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You know, three beings coming out of the UFO
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and them seeming sort of injured and afraid.
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And you show all of these witnesses
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coming from disparate places that have zero reason to lie,
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have not made a penny off of any of their testimony.
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And they're coming from this, you know, from Virginia, Brazil.
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They're not, you know, selling books at, like, a conference
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in the Southwest in the U.S. and, like, into the UFO lore.
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Like, they don't really have preexisting notions
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of what these things even are.
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So hard to get those people on camera.
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People have no idea.
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They think, like, people are just lining up.
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I want to be famous. I want my notoriety to get on camera.
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It's exactly the opposite.
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People took years, and in some cases, decades, to come forward.
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And, you know, this most recent revelation,
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which is, in my humble opinion,
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the most compelling first-hand eyewitness testimony
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in the history of the phenomenon.
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I agree. I fully agree with that.
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Right? And it's not just some random Joe.
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It's the guy that ran all the hospitals.
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Humanitas. Regional. Like, Bon-Bon-Bon-Hearts.
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There's three. He mentions them in there.
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But in any case, he's a neurosurgeon,
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and he had health complications.
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He had a heart attack, then he got cancer,
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and he was, like, staring at the ceiling of the ICU,
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and he was thinking, if I get through this,
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I can't take this to the grave.
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This is, it's literally the, I agree with you.
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It's the most amazing testimony I've ever heard
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from a person who was face-to-face with an alien being
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for what he describes as three to four minutes.
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Which is just remarkable.
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And it's clearly, you know, he's a concert pianist.
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You show him at the end of the credits playing piano.
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Isn't that beautiful? Oh, my God.
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And, um, and he's a really well-respected neurosurgeon.
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And, um, it seems totally beyond reproach.
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And you see him, he's in the hospital,
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and he's showing the bed that the alien was on.
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It's crazy. It's crazy.
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And then he gets emotional.
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You take him to a cafe nearby.
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You get kicked out of the hospital, basically.
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You get kicked out of the hospital.
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He's like, I think I might have just lost my job.
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So, a lot of this might be, you know,
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a lot of detail for people to take in,
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especially if they're not familiar with, you know,
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kind of the background of exactly what happened,
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So, we might be getting ahead of ourselves here.
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So, what happened in January of 1996 in Virginia?
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Put me on that farm in January of 1996.
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So, that was the, the object was shaped like a saw.
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A rubber shaped like a school bus.
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It was the size of a school bus.
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So, and no noise at all.
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We kept watching it because there was smoke,
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a light smoke wrapped around it.
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But I even joked with her.
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Because it was floating, you know?
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He kept watching it until it vanished this way.
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It was shaped like a cigar, you know.
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That a long, like that, like a cigar.
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Roughly 20 miles as the crow flies from the couple's sighting,
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farmer Fabio Furtado encountered a similar object.
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From here I saw it, it passed right by,
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and made that movement over there in front, you see.
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And I saw it all from right here.
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Look, then it performed that exact same movement right here,
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and then it landed way back there.
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It was like a cigar just flying through the air.
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It was January 1996, probably the 13th,
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and there are a number of witnesses to a cylindrical-shaped object,
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rather large, the size of a little bigger than a school bus.
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Okay? And it was like a metallic...
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...who had no like wings or any visible means propulsion.
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It didn't really make any noise,
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and according to the witnesses, it had,
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and for the first time ever in this recent cut of Moment of Contact,
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New Revelations of Alien encounters,
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we actually have a map of all the various sightings of it,
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which really helped put things in perspective for me.
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You did a great job of that.
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Cigar- ...when I was like,
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oh my God. He saw it here.
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This person saw it here.
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This is the town of Virginia.
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It was like, it all makes sense, you know?
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you know and uh so they see this object and it had a tear in the back of it which is very puzzling
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like hmm how did that happen something came in contact with that object to tear it and have they
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said it was like a white vapor it wasn't like a smoke from a fire that you would say it was like
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a white vapor that was coming out the back and then it was clearly in distress and i was like
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well how do you know it's in distress there right it was struggling to stay in the air
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but they said had the animals of the farmers the two farmers had the animals not made a ruckus at
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two o'clock or three o'clock in the morning they would have not even heard it or known it was there
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it was absolutely silent and they were expecting it to hit the ground the two farmers um and um and
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then there was another gentleman uh fabio for tata at that farm and he said that that it was make like
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it like it was over his house and he was there with one other person at night and he said that
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it was making a sound like it was kind of in trouble and then it landed on his farm it's the
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first time we got that testimony and that's like over here and then you know the object was seen
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here and here and then it crashed right in the middle um and then uh there was a gentleman by the
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name of carlos de souza and he was an ultralight pilot and he was also a history geography professor in
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sao paulo and he was going up to go ultralight flying with his friends early in the morning
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on january 13th and he sees and he's a pilot himself he sees this object this cigar shaped
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object with a gash in the back just like everyone else described that was struggling to stay in the
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air and he never once thought alien he was like that must be some sort of weird experimental crap
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maybe it's government or air force whatever it's it's in trouble it looks like it's going down
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down so it's really early in the morning he turns off the freeway and he goes up to this place called
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the maialini farm it was a dirt road and he goes up there and he sees it struggling to stay in the air
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and then it just goes boom and hits the ground he's like oh my god that thing just crashed they need help
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so he went up to the actual impact site which was like a debris field bigger than a football field
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maybe two football fields with debris everywhere half of the craft was still intact and then the
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other half was just gone like just debris bits everywhere got out of the car and he's looking at
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it just and again never once did he think alien now doesn't even enter his his consciousness right and um
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he said he's looking at he's like these little bits everywhere and he goes the smell like he pulled
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to me he was like it's rotten eggs and ammonia he grabbed his shirt and kind of pulled his shirt over
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his mouth my god this smell is so intense she immediately smelled ammonia it was like rotten eggs
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a very strong odor i had to cover my nose with the shirt i was wearing and there was like kind of a
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liquid that you described because i was asking like an acid or some sort of liquid everywhere that causing
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the grass and stuff to burn and um he said it was acid maybe like an acid or something yeah like some
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kind of liquid and um that caused he was talking about the grass was kind of was affected by it and
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um actually if you when we flew the drone over that exact alleged impact site you can see it's different
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the ground looks different in that zone there it does all around it i mean it really does yes and um
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he picked up one of the pieces and he said it was like uh like aluminum really light like you couldn't
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feel it very much like the roswell people that's always what you hear yeah and he said that he could
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crumple it up really light like you could barely feel it in your hands and then when he released it
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it it regained its shape it's the same thing as what jesse marcel said that's what he said yeah
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it was weightless you couldn't feel if you had anything in your hands and then he goes he goes then
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all these military trucks started coming in from uh the military base as from the opposite direction
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which actually just a few months ago we were there and i took the drone way way up in the sky
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and pointed it straight down and you could see where the as a military base the route that as it
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would come in from and he came in from the freeway on the opposite side and that's when he was he was
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threatened at gunpoint he didn't see anything get out of here he was like i was just trying to help
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like you know what what's the problem you know just trying to help i'm not you know and that's when
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he said things got really weird and then he got into his car and he left and he stopped at a gas
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station just a few miles down the road to have a coffee and trying to gather himself and that's when
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an unmarked vehicle showed up and they knew who he was his name his wife his address his daughter
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like all everything about him two men approached me dressed in black suits all perfectly aligned
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very tall individuals they stood right next to me and asked me are you mr carlos de susa married to
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so-and-so your daughter so-and-so they described my entire life story right there i turned to the man and
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asked who who are you what do you want to know how do you know all this
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it was perfectly clear to me listen you didn't see anything you just shut your mouth and you leave
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if anyone ever asks you anything at all you didn't see anything
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you don't know a thing or else things will get no supposed to really weird for you all right
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so just get out of here i was at that moment completely startled
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it was a black or a very dark blue opala almost black and without the license plate
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they got in and drove away they vanished that's that's crazy because it's a level of counter intel
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response times in 96 in 1996 and they they somehow know everything about your family
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and it's right after you witness a crashed craft and you drive a few miles away yeah and they somehow
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are able to apprehend you there yep like the car that stopped had no plates did they have an accent or was
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it they were very tall they had suits and uh they spoke portuguese and you know sometimes there'll be
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one person speaking portuguese and there'll be a couple other people that'll just be silent in the
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background and that's that happened in the case of uh louisa the mother of the two girls that came in
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direct contact with the alleged alien um and she's like they were foreigners like how do you know well
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they didn't say anything but they looked like foreigners and the money was foreign it was like american
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dollars in a briefcase and um and he said that they were very intimidating they said you don't you
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didn't see what you you know you didn't see that you know and if you ever talk about it things are
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going to get very weird for you not they're going to hunt you down and kill you they're going to get
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very weird for you which is kind of spooky it's you know what i mean do you think they were maybe
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like the proverbial men in black well you know it's so funny because i'd heard about these so-called
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men in black stuff dating back to the yeah to the 90s when i was investigating and i was like i
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investigated the phoenix lights case and and a lot of the witnesses hate when you say phoenix lights
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so they're like it wasn't fair much of lights it was a massive craft you know yeah i could see the
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compartments it flew right around my yeah the governor has now admitted is real and kurt russell
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saw while he was flying his plane with his son he said he could land his airplane on or something
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there you go yeah so we're going into phoenix and uh there's these bank of lights six lights
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in the shape of a triangle going back right over the airport so i was investigating that case and
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i was working with a woman who was like a councilwoman francis emma barwood and um i was interviewing her
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and of course i was going after the governor but at the time i wasn't getting any traction with that
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and i was interviewing all the witnesses and and uh there was one guy a vietnam vet and he
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contacted emma francis barwood one of the few elected officials councilwoman that that was
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willing to hey all she said was let's investigate what happened what these people saw like let's just
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you know and she was lambasted in the press oh my gosh you can go see they were making fun of her
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this guy reached out to her and i know this because i was investigating at the time i was in touch with her
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and he said hey um i understand you want to know more about this craft is i i'm a vietnam vet i was
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on my roof that night trying to get a a video on a tripod of hell bob comet because the hell bob was
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over the sky you know and um and i have a cb radio and i was listening to the truckers come up interstate
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10 from tucson and they were all describing this massive boomerang shaped craft and i realized
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shit this thing's coming right my way so he he said i i was all set up with a tripod and a camera
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and i filmed it going right over the top of my house got great footage would you like to see it
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she's like yeah i'd love to see it so uh they make arrangements where he was going to drop it off at her
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office i don't know if it was later that day or the very next morning or that night two men roll up
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in an unmarked government vehicle and suits and he's like he was they were very intimidating looking
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i mean they were like in these dark suits it was really hot and uh the only thing they really asked
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me was you know they said they were from france they're like we're from france's emma barwood's
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office we're here to pick up the video and he was like oh i was going to drop it off but i guess i
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don't have to and he said the only question they asked is uh did they make did he make any copies and
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he said no i didn't and so they took the they took the footage and left and a couple days go by
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he doesn't hear from emma so he calls her up he goes hey what did you think of the footage
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she goes what do you mean what i think the footage i didn't get the footage he goes well
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you had two men from your office show up she goes i didn't send anybody around so that was like the
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first time that i really heard about these so-called men in black and that was in the 90s yeah no this is
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made fun of yeah exactly exactly but but but richard dolan you great ufo researchers write about this
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phenomenon happening time and time and time and time again you you have another example uh which you cover
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in uh the phenomenon or i think in the program actually
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two witnesses were out hiking they then saw a large diamond shaped craft hovering
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it didn't move it just hovered in the air without making any any noise
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the witnesses looked at this for a while and one of them had a camera so when the jet came along
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they sort of stuck the camera out from behind the bush and snapped six frames
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the two witnesses that took the photographs took like six prints five prints like color points of
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reference broad daylight two witnesses military jet the background like it doesn't get much better than
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that and he's like these men in black rolled up they were having their cigarette break they were
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fucking spooks they were men in black and they stood outside and the person ran speaking to them
[0:17:39 - 0:17:46] ▶
so any case when i got to the virginia case with the men in black i was like oh my god these guys again
[0:17:48 - 0:17:54] ▶
i'd heard i could give you i could go go on for five hours it doesn't matter my point is i went all in on
[0:17:54 - 0:18:00] ▶
that yeah and i did cover a little bit with the 1966 uh westall ufo incident the landing when i got
[0:18:00 - 0:18:08] ▶
a hold of mr greenwood the the science professor well that's a whole story about how i got him to go
[0:18:08 - 0:18:13] ▶
on camera i remember when i arrived in australia all the seasoned ufo researchers were like don't even
[0:18:13 - 0:18:20] ▶
bother you know this guy has never come forward we've been trying for 50 years i said just get me in
[0:18:20 - 0:18:24] ▶
the room with him it is a great story behind how that whole thing goes but he talks about these guys
[0:18:24 - 0:18:29] ▶
the intimidation they showed up at his door they're in suits like you know some unmarked government
[0:18:29 - 0:18:34] ▶
agency threatening him like putting the blood the fear of god in this guy and yeah so if you talk to
[0:18:34 - 0:18:42] ▶
richard dolan about who the men in black are he seems to think osi no well this is really trippy he
[0:18:42 - 0:18:49] ▶
thinks it's like counter intel on behalf of the nhi or the aliens or the ets because if you think about
[0:18:49 - 0:18:56] ▶
it the level of rapid response it's the ability to show up and like you know kind of know everything
[0:18:56 - 0:19:04] ▶
about like it's either like in 1996 we had way more of like like think about 1990 1996 the the consumer
[0:19:04 - 0:19:13] ▶
internet wasn't really a thing like you know who knows how much information the government like maybe
[0:19:13 - 0:19:21] ▶
the u.s government had a lot of information on its citizens but did they have information on a
[0:19:21 - 0:19:27] ▶
citizen of virginia on a you know this guy who's a pilot in virginia and a geography teacher in sao
[0:19:27 - 0:19:34] ▶
paulo probably not you know and then the ability to show up a couple hours after he had seen this
[0:19:34 - 0:19:40] ▶
crash craft so de souza did he see any beings no with the crap he just saw the crash just saw the
[0:19:40 - 0:19:46] ▶
crash and i asked him i said it was the was the the section that was still intact was it big enough
[0:19:46 - 0:19:51] ▶
to have people oh yes he said no question now uh did he see inside it not that i'm aware of okay yeah
[0:19:51 - 0:19:59] ▶
i didn't ask him that question that's a good question yeah i think if he had seen inside he
[0:19:59 - 0:20:02] ▶
would have told me but he said there was a sec it wasn't there for very long but just a few minutes
[0:20:02 - 0:20:07] ▶
but the section was intact that was still there and it was about half half the size of what it was when
[0:20:07 - 0:20:13] ▶
it when it impacted seven days after salsa witnessed the crash jubel ladera leaves this gym when he and
[0:20:13 - 0:20:21] ▶
several friends see two military trucks driving into town they follow them through the neighborhood
[0:20:21 - 0:20:27] ▶
and come upon a military blockade we tried to force our way through and they raised their rifles their
[0:20:28 - 0:20:35] ▶
weapons did you get did you all feel scared at that moment on that day the only time i felt
[0:20:35 - 0:20:43] ▶
fear was when the soul in uh when the soldier raised his rifle because until then i had never
[0:20:43 - 0:20:49] ▶
seen such a large weapon and no one had ever pointed a gun in my direction you know and you have some
[0:20:49 - 0:20:56] ▶
reason to believe that two or three beings came out and that and one of the beings and you have you have
[0:20:56 - 0:21:03] ▶
that you have the mayor on record yes testifying this the mayor's nephew's girlfriend was one of the
[0:21:03 - 0:21:10] ▶
three girls yes that saw one of the beings yes the news has just arrived at this very moment the
[0:21:10 - 0:21:16] ▶
girls have spotted some kind of creature up there close to the maracanon gymnasium just around the
[0:21:16 - 0:21:23] ▶
corner from the military blockade three young girls had an encounter of the third kind the sisters valkyria
[0:21:23 - 0:21:32] ▶
who is 14 years old and lilias who is 16 years old are also very frightened it's the first time they've come
[0:21:32 - 0:21:38] ▶
back to this very place since saturday january 20th that strange round thing wow it was incredibly
[0:21:38 - 0:21:45] ▶
strange and it had these things like horns right on its head its skin was brown and it looked like it
[0:21:45 - 0:21:52] ▶
had some some kind of oil all over its body it had a huge foot and its eyes were super wide and red
[0:21:52 - 0:22:00] ▶
and then i think you have some reason to believe that one of the beings made its way over the hill
[0:22:00 - 0:22:09] ▶
and possibly towards the water and then was captured with a net is that right yeah that was over the
[0:22:09 - 0:22:14] ▶
fire department earlier that's why i keep i keep thinking because that one was alive because we have
[0:22:14 - 0:22:19] ▶
testimony of someone that was in the area when it was it was in a net they captured it with a net like
[0:22:19 - 0:22:24] ▶
they would with a wild animal or something like that and but it was screaming like a little baby that's
[0:22:24 - 0:22:28] ▶
what he says screaming like a child screaming like a child yeah the fire department was dispatched to
[0:22:28 - 0:22:34] ▶
this location after receiving several calls from concerned residents who reported seeing something
[0:22:34 - 0:22:41] ▶
strange in the area first of all i'd like to take a quick moment to acknowledge all the brazilian ufo
[0:22:41 - 0:22:57] ▶
researchers have done a stellar job helping expose this story clodio covo pacchini uberta jada rodriguez
[0:22:57 - 0:23:06] ▶
marco petit aj javard i mean these guys that came before us uh you know marco leal has been been on it for
[0:23:06 - 0:23:14] ▶
over 20 years my partner he's amazing um and the persistence of of of of all of them and
[0:23:14 - 0:23:24] ▶
marco and i knocking on doors like going downtown putting up signs like leading us to be like i just
[0:23:24 - 0:23:31] ▶
want to give one example of how we got to the girls because the girls are like this is not a career
[0:23:31 - 0:23:35] ▶
enhancing move for these girls in a small town to be talking about they got made fun of ridiculed
[0:23:35 - 0:23:41] ▶
laughed at like their life was a living hell men in black showed up at their mom's house and they got
[0:23:41 - 0:23:47] ▶
offered cash to retract their statements a lot of money they did not they did not and the mother said
[0:23:47 - 0:23:53] ▶
i will not have my daughters are not liars that will not that will not happen that's right they
[0:23:53 - 0:23:57] ▶
were very intimidating to her and like so all this pressure and all this you know but i i was there
[0:23:57 - 0:24:04] ▶
with i was in virginia i'm gonna say it was my second or third time and it was probably 2012 would be
[0:24:04 - 0:24:11] ▶
my guess and i was doing a silly tv show which i'm not proud of at all my bad but whatever it got me
[0:24:11 - 0:24:18] ▶
to where i am now i guess and i was from national geographic oh god it was so bad sorry guys and and
[0:24:18 - 0:24:27] ▶
we were out wandering in the in the jungle at night and i got bit by a spider oh and it was like midnight
[0:24:27 - 0:24:33] ▶
or something we shed no business out so silly i got bit by a spider and by the fang marks it looked
[0:24:33 - 0:24:38] ▶
like it could have been a brazilian wandering spider which is deadly they get me to this clinic
[0:24:38 - 0:24:42] ▶
and they had to go to an anti-venom and i was up all night getting this drip feed and then the next
[0:24:42 - 0:24:47] ▶
day i didn't get any sleep and the camera crew the whole team they were like we're going here and we
[0:24:47 - 0:24:52] ▶
got this scheduled and i was like i've been up all night man like i i'm on camera tv talent and you
[0:24:52 - 0:24:58] ▶
guys are expecting i was like at the very least i need to stop at a cafe and get a get a a juice
[0:24:58 - 0:25:03] ▶
because like brazil is known for having incredible juice right fresh juice i love it mango papaya whatever
[0:25:03 - 0:25:08] ▶
and they're like no no no we don't have time we don't have time and and i was like i you know
[0:25:09 - 0:25:13] ▶
i and the car was stopped the van that i was in was stopped at a stoplight and i just opened the door
[0:25:13 - 0:25:18] ▶
and got out i was like you guys leave without me i'm not i need some juice i need something i need
[0:25:18 - 0:25:22] ▶
something to nourish me so i walked into this random like cafe juice bar and i'm in there ordering and uh
[0:25:22 - 0:25:29] ▶
this guy's looking at me and i think he said something english like hey are you what are you
[0:25:29 - 0:25:33] ▶
are you american it's like yeah what are you what are you doing here and i was like oh i'm kind of
[0:25:33 - 0:25:37] ▶
working with a tv show you know covering the virginia the 1996 virginia incident he goes oh
[0:25:37 - 0:25:43] ▶
my gosh i dated one of the girls i said really and uh we're trying to reach them we're trying to find
[0:25:43 - 0:25:49] ▶
them and he goes let me hang on takes his phone out boom gets her on the phone hey what's it going to
[0:25:49 - 0:25:55] ▶
take you and that's how we first met whoa and so had i not been bitten by the you know what i mean
[0:25:55 - 0:26:00] ▶
like wow the way it all went down yeah i know that's crazy really crazy right the creature was
[0:26:00 - 0:26:06] ▶
there and we just came by this way i didn't realize that's closer than i expected it's like
[0:26:06 - 0:26:15] ▶
eight feet away and he was absolutely sweltering sweating profusely and it was incredibly hot
[0:26:15 - 0:26:20] ▶
and so he was uh going through it you know suffering from the intense heat the scorching sun
[0:26:22 - 0:26:28] ▶
and the effect it had on his skin remember i said hey everyone look over there then he turned i saw
[0:26:28 - 0:26:33] ▶
his eyes and i immediately ran away so when he turned we could only see his eyes and what looked
[0:26:33 - 0:26:38] ▶
like a slit but we couldn't really tell if he had a normal mouth like ours or something else entirely
[0:26:38 - 0:26:44] ▶
when they locked eyes with this being what were they thinking well it wasn't a human that we saw
[0:26:45 - 0:26:52] ▶
honestly it wasn't an animal either and so these days i truly believe it's a being from another planet
[0:26:52 - 0:27:01] ▶
back then you know we were always in pause we were children of catholic parents right
[0:27:07 - 0:27:13] ▶
in pause and that it could be a demon so that's why we ended up being afraid back then you know
[0:27:13 - 0:27:19] ▶
you know so the three girls run to her house and they say we saw this creature we might have been
[0:27:19 - 0:27:26] ▶
the devil or whatever it was and they do they do they get in the car and drive here do they walk
[0:27:26 - 0:27:33] ▶
here how did they get here and what did they see when they got here she said let's go there in the
[0:27:33 - 0:27:36] ▶
pickup truck and i told her i'm not going i'm too scared i won't come back then louise asked please
[0:27:36 - 0:27:40] ▶
won't you come with me so i finally got into the pickup truck and we came back we ended up stopping right
[0:27:40 - 0:27:44] ▶
here look in that very spot i saw the creature's track its foot i will never forget it i swear to god
[0:27:44 - 0:27:53] ▶
oh i'm still trembling do you want to see one toe then another long toe and then another toe like this
[0:27:53 - 0:28:01] ▶
roughly three hours after the girls witnessed the strange creature military police officers
[0:28:07 - 0:28:13] ▶
eric lopes and marco chereze drive down this road on the lookout for something unusual
[0:28:13 - 0:28:19] ▶
when suddenly it runs right across their path
[0:28:21 - 0:28:23] ▶
these military personnel exited the vehicle uh these soldiers but most notably marco his arrest
[0:28:25 - 0:28:31] ▶
uh wrestled with this creature to bring it under control
[0:28:31 - 0:28:34] ▶
it was captured by marco chereze whisper his bare hands easily and take it into the hospital
[0:28:34 - 0:28:46] ▶
so what happens is marco chereze who's this soldier apprehends this alien being grabs him yep brings him
[0:28:47 - 0:28:55] ▶
into the vehicle right yep and no hesitation puts about puts it on his lap that's so wild and then he
[0:28:55 - 0:29:01] ▶
ends up with this gnarly bacterial infection and i don't want to get too too into the details because
[0:29:01 - 0:29:08] ▶
chris ramsey's going to do an amazing follow-up with you kind of which double clicks on this autopsy but you
[0:29:08 - 0:29:13] ▶
have the autopsy of this soldier who's died because he basically grabbed an alien being and and it shows
[0:29:13 - 0:29:23] ▶
bacteria yeah yeah the guy the founder of the company ipd and you could get the it's an acronym
[0:29:23 - 0:29:29] ▶
but the founder of the company dr janini and the guy that did the autopsy on the deceased military
[0:29:29 - 0:29:34] ▶
officer dr armando um participated on camera for this cut of the movie yeah it's amazing you have the
[0:29:34 - 0:29:41] ▶
the f you have the the guy who provided the the report and all the infrastructure for the report the
[0:29:41 - 0:29:46] ▶
one who founded the company and the guy who founded the company and and and the the autopsy guys
[0:29:46 - 0:29:51] ▶
both saying and they're using words like i get goosebumps and and then they're the ones speculating
[0:29:51 - 0:29:56] ▶
that the that the claw from the et must have punctured the skin and it's like this he said the
[0:29:56 - 0:30:03] ▶
bacteria most likely came from the under the nail of the et which didn't mean to like it wasn't like
[0:30:03 - 0:30:09] ▶
an evil et that tried to kill this guy he just like accidentally in the process of grabbing it yeah he
[0:30:09 - 0:30:15] ▶
got a little scratch right under his armpit based on the circumstantial evidence that has come to my
[0:30:15 - 0:30:22] ▶
attention it was a very distinct and deliberate scratch on the resis skin clearly inflicted by et
[0:30:22 - 0:30:29] ▶
i truly believe he was a victim of of vt's nail you know his sharp claw
[0:30:29 - 0:30:34] ▶
why was it so resistant what biochemical gain did it possess to completely escape the antibiotic
[0:30:34 - 0:30:45] ▶
as they will be scoping does those antibiortons it just sailed through destroying everything
[0:30:45 - 0:30:53] ▶
in just one week that's very very atypical
[0:30:53 - 0:30:55] ▶
yeah i won't go into detail about it but basically never before never since yeah they've never seen anything
[0:30:59 - 0:31:04] ▶
like this bacteria this was an advanced bacteria that did things that nothing on earth no bacteria
[0:31:04 - 0:31:09] ▶
on earth does you know you see them in the movie saying that it's like incredible yeah and it's not
[0:31:09 - 0:31:14] ▶
anonymous they're not doing this anonymously neither is the neurosurgeon yeah neither is the neurosurgeon
[0:31:14 - 0:31:21] ▶
and he's still working at the hospital today when we first started selling merchandise at americanalchemymerch.com
[0:31:21 - 0:31:29] ▶
we had no idea how complicated and annoying selling merch could be we talked to a dozen different
[0:31:29 - 0:31:35] ▶
platforms and companies comparing shipping tools payment options website builders and it all felt
[0:31:35 - 0:31:41] ▶
like way more of a headache and complicated than it should be we decided on shopify and within days our
[0:31:41 - 0:31:47] ▶
store was up everything was running cleanly in an automated way so we could just focus on the brand
[0:31:47 - 0:31:52] ▶
and the vision we had for it that's when it hit us ideas don't scale on inspiration alone they need a
[0:31:52 - 0:31:59] ▶
structure a container shopify provides that structure it quietly powers millions of creators and brands
[0:31:59 - 0:32:06] ▶
about 10 percent of all united states e-commerce from big names like gymshark and mattel to solo
[0:32:06 - 0:32:13] ▶
creators building from their bedrooms shopify made it simple to build a store that actually feels authentic
[0:32:13 - 0:32:19] ▶
to us which matters when your brand lives in a niche like alternative tech ufos or fringe science
[0:32:19 - 0:32:25] ▶
and when you have a very clear brand vision plus their ai tools help write descriptions organize
[0:32:25 - 0:32:31] ▶
products even clean up photos so we can focus on what matters and what we care about building the
[0:32:31 - 0:32:37] ▶
best custom merch line possible with the coolest designs like our ufo cowboy tee and the atomic age tee
[0:32:37 - 0:32:44] ▶
plus shopify handles all of the unglamorous more painful stuff shipping returns email marketing all in
[0:32:44 - 0:32:51] ▶
one clean dashboard it's like having a silent partner who never sleeps our favorite part of the
[0:32:51 - 0:32:57] ▶
product is the dashboard which gives us complete demographic information we can see where our orders
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come from making it easy to know who our most loyal consistent customers are around the world that's
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just one example but shopify really makes your life easier bring your next idea to life with shopify
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quietly handling everything behind it sign up for your one dollar per month trial and start today
[0:33:14 - 0:33:21] ▶
at shopify.com jesse again that's shopify.com jesse j-e-s-s-e for a one dollar a month trial it's
[0:33:21 - 0:33:31] ▶
just one dollar a month to try shopify the state-of-the-art solution in e-commerce and they tried to suppress this
[0:33:31 - 0:33:38] ▶
report and marco shirisi's sister oh yeah tried to get yes basically had to sue them and rest the
[0:33:38 - 0:33:43] ▶
report out of them the wife couldn't get the the autopsy report from her husband that's great and
[0:33:43 - 0:33:49] ▶
she was like pregnant at the time it's horrible you know yeah god that was one thing that dr roger
[0:33:49 - 0:33:55] ▶
lear thank you dr roger lear for tracking down the wife in 2002 after a protracted legal battle the
[0:33:55 - 0:34:02] ▶
family finally received the death certificate it was produced by ipd laboratory the institute of
[0:34:02 - 0:34:09] ▶
prevention and diagnostics in virginia nesse exame aqui nesse laudo fala que ele tem uma presença de
[0:34:09 - 0:34:18] ▶
granulações toxas finas em 8% neutrofilos onde foi adquirido uma substância não identificada portanto
[0:34:18 - 0:34:28] ▶
que ele veio morrer de uma infecção generalizada mas sem uma causa justa
[0:34:28 - 0:34:33] ▶
all the witnesses that claim that marco churisi handled a creature a strange creature doesn't have to be from
[0:34:33 - 0:34:42] ▶
another world it was a strange creature he gets some unknown infection you did everything you could to save
[0:34:42 - 0:34:48] ▶
him and he died do you believe that there's some credibility to that story
[0:34:48 - 0:34:53] ▶
dorazen that claim that it you believe that heöhem did he heaping tools is
[0:34:53 - 0:34:58] ▶
Marco Elixirese, 23 years old, worked in B2.
[0:35:17 - 0:35:22] ▶
The family only knows that he participated in a secret operation.
[0:35:22 - 0:35:26] ▶
You confirm that your brother was in service on that day 20?
[0:35:26 - 0:35:30] ▶
To find Marta, the sister of the deceased military officer, Marco Cirisi,
[0:35:32 - 0:35:36] ▶
she'd gone off, I mean, yeah, she'd spoken publicly at the time
[0:35:36 - 0:35:39] ▶
of the incident, year two, three, whatever, and then just kind of,
[0:35:39 - 0:35:43] ▶
people pulled back. There was just nothing to gain and everything to lose.
[0:35:43 - 0:35:45] ▶
Like just going up against, you know, Goliath and people just want
[0:35:45 - 0:35:50] ▶
their lives back, you know? And, and I went downtown and I was,
[0:35:50 - 0:35:54] ▶
I was talking, I would look in the downtown plaza, downtown Virginia,
[0:35:54 - 0:36:01] ▶
and I would look for old people.
[0:36:01 - 0:36:03] ▶
Cause I was like, all right, these pop, you know, and I'd walk up
[0:36:03 - 0:36:05] ▶
and I was just asking, and I remember my sound guy was from Rio.
[0:36:05 - 0:36:08] ▶
And he was like, he looked at me and he was like, dude, are you insane?
[0:36:08 - 0:36:11] ▶
Like, what are you doing? Like, I was like, you know, if I have a zero,
[0:36:11 - 0:36:14] ▶
zero, zero, one percent chance, I'm going for it every time.
[0:36:14 - 0:36:16] ▶
Right. And so I was just going up and then I found this one old guy
[0:36:16 - 0:36:20] ▶
and he was like, oh yeah, I think I know.
[0:36:20 - 0:36:21] ▶
She moved to this location of that.
[0:36:21 - 0:36:23] ▶
And we're driving around a random goose chase.
[0:36:23 - 0:36:25] ▶
We're going to knocking on doors in random places.
[0:36:25 - 0:36:28] ▶
Three or four hours later, we knock on this one door, door opens.
[0:36:28 - 0:36:33] ▶
There's Marco Cirisi's sister, Marta.
[0:36:33 - 0:36:36] ▶
It was like, and I remember my sound guy looks over me.
[0:36:36 - 0:36:39] ▶
He goes, you're the luckiest son of a bitch.
[0:36:39 - 0:36:40] ▶
I think I've ever been. I said, no, well, not necessarily.
[0:36:40 - 0:36:43] ▶
I was knocking on doors to find her.
[0:36:44 - 0:36:46] ▶
And, um, uh, her husband was very protective and he was wearing this white,
[0:36:46 - 0:36:51] ▶
wife beater and he was just ripped.
[0:36:51 - 0:36:53] ▶
And he was like standing in the background, like you give me the nod
[0:36:53 - 0:36:56] ▶
and I'm going to rip this guy's head off.
[0:36:56 - 0:36:57] ▶
And, and she doesn't know who the hell I am. Right.
[0:36:59 - 0:37:02] ▶
Everyone's paranoid.
[0:37:02 - 0:37:03] ▶
Like I'm some American.
[0:37:03 - 0:37:04] ▶
And I said, I'm here to give your, your, your brother justice, to give your brother a voice.
[0:37:04 - 0:37:12] ▶
And that broke the tension immediately.
[0:37:12 - 0:37:15] ▶
And it was like, okay, let's talk.
[0:37:16 - 0:37:18] ▶
And then we, and then that's how I got in with Marta Tavares.
[0:37:18 - 0:37:21] ▶
When her brother falls ill, she asks about his involvement with the case.
[0:37:21 - 0:37:27] ▶
And this is the story, the creature from outer space.
[0:37:27 - 0:37:33] ▶
Look, this story will be a big deal.
[0:37:33 - 0:37:37] ▶
So what, so one of the beings gets captured with a net.
[0:37:37 - 0:37:41] ▶
The only two really solid ones that we have, but we have information on others.
[0:37:44 - 0:37:51] ▶
But again, I only reported on two because that was the most concrete.
[0:37:52 - 0:37:57] ▶
I would have testimony that we can get our hands on.
[0:37:57 - 0:38:00] ▶
And that was one capture in the morning by the fire department with a net.
[0:38:00 - 0:38:04] ▶
Apparently that one died.
[0:38:04 - 0:38:06] ▶
But that's the one that was crying.
[0:38:06 - 0:38:10] ▶
And then the, the other one, which was Marco Cherise and Eric Lopes.
[0:38:10 - 0:38:14] ▶
And it's interesting actually, because when you watch the movie and a lot of people miss this,
[0:38:14 - 0:38:18] ▶
when we doorstepped Eric Lopes and a lot of people, a lot of people criticize us for that.
[0:38:18 - 0:38:22] ▶
Like, how could you just doorstep this guy?
[0:38:22 - 0:38:24] ▶
You just show up at his house.
[0:38:24 - 0:38:25] ▶
It's like, well, we exhausted every other possible avenue for decades.
[0:38:25 - 0:38:29] ▶
All the researchers had like, he wasn't talking period.
[0:38:30 - 0:38:32] ▶
And he was the military transport guy.
[0:38:32 - 0:38:34] ▶
He was the one driving the car.
[0:38:34 - 0:38:36] ▶
And the co-intelligence officer, police officer, Marco Cherise jumped out and grabbed it.
[0:38:37 - 0:38:41] ▶
Because the being was in the way of the car.
[0:38:41 - 0:38:43] ▶
It went right across the road, right in front of him.
[0:38:43 - 0:38:45] ▶
And it was just a couple of blocks away from where the girls had seen this creature just
[0:38:46 - 0:38:48] ▶
And Eric Lopes basically said, I will deter you with bullets or something.
[0:38:49 - 0:38:54] ▶
Like he threatened you.
[0:38:54 - 0:38:55] ▶
Yeah, remove you with bullets.
[0:38:55 - 0:38:56] ▶
He said he'd shoot you.
[0:38:56 - 0:38:57] ▶
But before he said that, he's like, if you're here to talk about the ET, he won't talk.
[0:38:57 - 0:39:01] ▶
He referred to himself in the third person.
[0:39:01 - 0:39:03] ▶
It's kind of like, it's kind of like the police showing up at your door at a party.
[0:39:03 - 0:39:13] ▶
And you know, and you answer the door, you see the police and you go, there's no drugs
[0:39:13 - 0:39:17] ▶
It's like the police always like, I didn't ask you about any drugs.
[0:39:18 - 0:39:21] ▶
But now that you mentioned it, it's interesting.
[0:39:21 - 0:39:23] ▶
You know, he said, if you're here to talk about the ET, something like if you're here
[0:39:23 - 0:39:27] ▶
to talk about the ET, he won't talk.
[0:39:27 - 0:39:29] ▶
We didn't even say anything yet.
[0:39:31 - 0:39:32] ▶
Well, that plus threatening to shoot you, I think is, you know, not a normal reaction.
[0:39:33 - 0:39:38] ▶
He's like, he brought the ET up.
[0:39:38 - 0:39:40] ▶
We didn't bring the ET up.
[0:39:40 - 0:39:41] ▶
So it's like, read between the lines there.
[0:39:43 - 0:39:45] ▶
Tacit admission of something.
[0:39:45 - 0:39:47] ▶
And when I was standing there trying to make sense of what was going on, because it was
[0:39:48 - 0:39:54] ▶
like, everything was happening really quickly.
[0:39:54 - 0:39:56] ▶
And they were talking, you know, and like, I speak French and I speak a little Spanish and
[0:39:56 - 0:40:01] ▶
I could really like when I'm in the field, I really want to understand what's being said.
[0:40:01 - 0:40:05] ▶
Even when I was in China, I was like learning Chinese.
[0:40:05 - 0:40:07] ▶
Like I, I just, I have to be able to communicate.
[0:40:07 - 0:40:10] ▶
So I, I can, I have this level of focus where I really tried, but these things were happening
[0:40:11 - 0:40:14] ▶
He was making threats, I guess, about shooting me and shooting everybody else.
[0:40:15 - 0:40:20] ▶
Even there was a 10 year old kid there.
[0:40:20 - 0:40:22] ▶
And I'm looking in the eyes of this guy and he's up.
[0:40:22 - 0:40:25] ▶
He's like up in a window on the second floor, looking down at us.
[0:40:25 - 0:40:29] ▶
And he's got something in one hand and I don't know what, if he had a gun or whatever he had,
[0:40:29 - 0:40:33] ▶
but he's military intelligence.
[0:40:33 - 0:40:34] ▶
Like he probably doesn't have any problem.
[0:40:35 - 0:40:38] ▶
You know, I'm sure he's armed to the teeth, but I'm looking in his eyes and, and, and I
[0:40:38 - 0:40:42] ▶
hear all this commotion going around me, but I had a moment where time almost stopped.
[0:40:42 - 0:40:46] ▶
And I looked into this guy's eyes and I, I just saw eyes of someone that I've never,
[0:40:46 - 0:40:51] ▶
I never seen before because like, they look so grief stricken.
[0:40:51 - 0:40:55] ▶
Like I was just like, I, it's like time stopped and I'm looking in this guy's eyes and I've
[0:40:57 - 0:41:03] ▶
never seen eyes like that before.
[0:41:03 - 0:41:06] ▶
Like if you could imagine harboring or witnessing a murder or something really intense and then
[0:41:06 - 0:41:11] ▶
having to be quiet about it because maybe your family's threatened or your life's threatened,
[0:41:11 - 0:41:15] ▶
or who knows what, like, and you had to harbor that for the better part of 30 years,
[0:41:15 - 0:41:19] ▶
like the toll that would take on you.
[0:41:19 - 0:41:21] ▶
Well, you, you see it even, even you hear it with, with what he says.
[0:41:21 - 0:41:24] ▶
And you, and you sense that he's been threatened.
[0:41:25 - 0:41:29] ▶
His family has been threatened and that he probably feels like kind of half a man or
[0:41:29 - 0:41:33] ▶
something like he's been, you know, he's been submitted through force.
[0:41:33 - 0:41:37] ▶
So Eric, Eric won't talk.
[0:41:37 - 0:41:50] ▶
What, what just happened?
[0:41:50 - 0:41:51] ▶
I'm trying, what happened?
[0:41:51 - 0:41:52] ▶
He doesn't want to talk at all.
[0:41:57 - 0:41:58] ▶
Oh my God, that was Eric Lopez.
[0:42:04 - 0:42:05] ▶
Dave, did you get him?
[0:42:13 - 0:42:14] ▶
Please tell me you got him.
[0:42:14 - 0:42:15] ▶
That was Eric Lopez.
[0:42:16 - 0:42:17] ▶
You get him in the window?
[0:42:18 - 0:42:19] ▶
If that guy had nothing to hide, he would have just said so.
[0:42:21 - 0:42:27] ▶
That guy was driving the car that Marco Tresi was in.
[0:42:27 - 0:42:34] ▶
We received an unexpected request for a meeting from the chief neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional,
[0:42:34 - 0:42:44] ▶
the same hospital where military police officers Marco Tresi and Eric Lopez allegedly had taken the live alien they'd captured on the road.
[0:42:44 - 0:42:55] ▶
Dr. Italo Venturelli, the head neurosurgeon at Hospital Regional, was on duty in the ICU when he had the most extraordinary encounter of his life.
[0:42:55 - 0:43:07] ▶
In this room or which room?
[0:43:07 - 0:43:08] ▶
The alien was alive in this bed right there.
[0:43:11 - 0:43:16] ▶
So he saw the creature right there.
[0:43:16 - 0:43:19] ▶
He saw the creature right there?
[0:43:19 - 0:43:20] ▶
While he was watching the video of the surgery.
[0:43:21 - 0:43:24] ▶
His eyes, they were like a teardrops, red, much redder, especially right here, you know?
[0:43:25 - 0:43:31] ▶
And he was, well, partially covered.
[0:43:31 - 0:43:33] ▶
He was right here, you know?
[0:43:33 - 0:43:35] ▶
But he was, he was still alive.
[0:43:35 - 0:43:37] ▶
He looked at the, in the eyes of the creature?
[0:43:37 - 0:43:40] ▶
And what, what did the creature say to you?
[0:43:43 - 0:43:45] ▶
His face was white, his eyes were red, and he wasn't showing any suffering at all, no.
[0:43:48 - 0:43:54] ▶
If there was, perhaps a possible telepathic communication?
[0:43:54 - 0:43:57] ▶
Right there, you see?
[0:43:58 - 0:43:59] ▶
As if to say, you know, something like, I'm perfectly fine.
[0:43:59 - 0:44:01] ▶
I've been well looked after.
[0:44:01 - 0:44:02] ▶
He said, yes, for sure, a communication as someone would say, yes, I am okay, I've received care.
[0:44:02 - 0:44:10] ▶
That's what he felt from the, the expression of the being.
[0:44:10 - 0:44:15] ▶
What was the cephala?
[0:44:15 - 0:44:16] ▶
To speak without speaking.
[0:44:16 - 0:44:18] ▶
It spoke without speaking.
[0:44:18 - 0:44:19] ▶
According to Dr. Italo, a being underwent a procedure by his colleague, fellow neurosurgeon,
[0:44:19 - 0:44:26] ▶
Dr. Marcos Venisio Neves, who died in 2018 of a heart attack.
[0:44:26 - 0:44:32] ▶
The other primary witness was his partner, a fellow neurosurgeon who was slightly below him,
[0:44:32 - 0:44:39] ▶
And Marcos Venisis, there's a lot to that story as well.
[0:44:40 - 0:44:44] ▶
Um, he had a heart attack in 2018.
[0:44:44 - 0:44:48] ▶
He didn't survive and he passed.
[0:44:48 - 0:44:50] ▶
And he did surgery on the alien being.
[0:44:50 - 0:44:52] ▶
He did a little, he did a procedure on the being, yes.
[0:44:52 - 0:44:55] ▶
And so he died in 2018, I believe.
[0:44:57 - 0:45:00] ▶
And Ventarelli, um, he said he was face to face with this being.
[0:45:01 - 0:45:06] ▶
And what did he, what did he describe as far as that interaction?
[0:45:06 - 0:45:10] ▶
He said that, this is incredible.
[0:45:10 - 0:45:12] ▶
It's hard to kind of wrap my mind around it, you know?
[0:45:12 - 0:45:15] ▶
It's like I've had very, I've only had a couple of, um, cases where I'm almost kind of pinching myself during filming.
[0:45:15 - 0:45:24] ▶
One of them was with the former governor of Arizona, Fife Simonton, when he confessed after 10 years that he had not only, um, believed about the Phoenix Lights case, but that he too was a witness to the event.
[0:45:24 - 0:45:38] ▶
And then he looked into it and he, as a pilot in the Air Force, he said that thing could not have been from here.
[0:45:38 - 0:45:46] ▶
And I said, how did you know that governor?
[0:45:46 - 0:45:48] ▶
And he goes, because of its size and its flight characteristics, it couldn't have been from here.
[0:45:48 - 0:45:53] ▶
It had to be otherworldly, is how he put it.
[0:45:53 - 0:45:56] ▶
And that was a moment in my career where I honestly, and I'm not just making this up, I remember sitting in my chair and I'm going, did the governor of Arizona just say that he too saw it and that he looked into it and he felt it was otherworldly?
[0:45:56 - 0:46:10] ▶
And I'm like, I think I must be dreaming. And so I'm like pinching my, I literally grabbed my leg and I pinched it. And, and I was like, no, I feel that I'm not, I'm not dreaming.
[0:46:10 - 0:46:20] ▶
Then I said, I bet the cameras aren't rolling. So I looked over at the camera to see if the, you know, and then when we were with Dr. Italo, the neurosurgeon in regional hospital that he just snuck us in the back gate, like, you know, with all cameras rolling and the audio guys and everything.
[0:46:20 - 0:46:37] ▶
And then he starts talking about like, this is the bed. This is the ICU. I was like, holy shit. This guy's just going full Komodo. Like he's just saying the hell with it, whatever the consequences. This is what happened. I was here. I sat with it in this bed, right here in this room for three to four minutes.
[0:46:37 - 0:46:56] ▶
Menores do que a nossa braço menor do que o nosso o rosto menor do que o nosso no cast de sete anos vamos dizer assim.
[0:46:56 - 0:47:05] ▶
After several minutes of interaction with the being in this exact ICU at Hospital Regional, Dr. Italo told us the military burst in and took the being, then threatened the hospital staff to remain silent.
[0:47:05 - 0:47:21] ▶
Ask him how it feels to be sharing this information after 29 years.
[0:47:21 - 0:47:25] ▶
And how is the situation that you feel to be sharing this information with us?
[0:47:25 - 0:47:29] ▶
It feels like crying.
[0:47:30 - 0:47:32] ▶
It's different from us.
[0:47:36 - 0:47:39] ▶
So this is, you have a neurosurgeon who's, you know, again, extremely credentialed.
[0:47:48 - 0:47:54] ▶
Everything to lose, nothing to gain.
[0:47:54 - 0:47:55] ▶
He's had some health scares and giving you this testimony and he freaks out cause he's gonna lose his job.
[0:47:55 - 0:48:02] ▶
He ends up giving you the testimony in the cafe.
[0:48:02 - 0:48:04] ▶
His, his good friend had done surgery on the being.
[0:48:04 - 0:48:08] ▶
Did he say anything about that surgery?
[0:48:12 - 0:48:14] ▶
Because what is surgery like on an alien being?
[0:48:14 - 0:48:17] ▶
So apparently it was, uh, and, and, uh, I'm not qualified to do, you know, I'm not a neurosurgeon, but from what I understand is that there was swelling from head trauma and that he had released the pressure by putting, I guess they do a little hole or something like that where it releases the pressure.
[0:48:17 - 0:48:35] ▶
It was something like that.
[0:48:35 - 0:48:36] ▶
It was a procedure to release the, from a head trauma.
[0:48:36 - 0:48:40] ▶
I would imagine it was maybe something to do with the accident.
[0:48:41 - 0:48:44] ▶
But no, but no, but that, that is interesting.
[0:48:45 - 0:48:47] ▶
Like if I were to throw any sort of skepticism at this, it would be, um, you know, how are you dealing with alien organs?
[0:48:49 - 0:48:56] ▶
Like, what do you, you don't really know what to do, you know, but if it's just a, like a head pressure, you know, release or something that, that makes some sense to me.
[0:48:56 - 0:49:05] ▶
Could have been head trauma.
[0:49:05 - 0:49:06] ▶
How did he protect himself from the bacteria if he's doing, was he, was he just like.
[0:49:06 - 0:49:10] ▶
Everyone in the ICU has full protective gear on.
[0:49:11 - 0:49:13] ▶
Because we, even just to walk in with no patient, we had to put all the gear on.
[0:49:16 - 0:49:18] ▶
You can't go into the ICU without it.
[0:49:19 - 0:49:20] ▶
You got face mask, glove, everything, apron.
[0:49:21 - 0:49:23] ▶
And it, and it was probably with Marcos Charisi, um, there was probably some interaction with his blood cause he, there was a, maybe a, a, a punctured wound or something.
[0:49:23 - 0:49:32] ▶
You know, I wish like hell Marcos Venesis hadn't died.
[0:49:33 - 0:49:37] ▶
For so many reasons.
[0:49:38 - 0:49:39] ▶
I mean, interviewing a guy who's done surgery on an alien being.
[0:49:39 - 0:49:42] ▶
It's really frustrating.
[0:49:44 - 0:49:45] ▶
I said, by the time your audience watches this, I've already been back and then we have a huge meeting with all the doctors as many as we can get.
[0:49:47 - 0:49:54] ▶
Have you talked to his family at all?
[0:49:55 - 0:49:57] ▶
Marcos Venesis's daughter, Marcos Venesis is, he had a mistress and he had a, he had a kid with the mistress.
[0:50:01 - 0:50:08] ▶
We, we, we talked with the wife and, um, because.
[0:50:08 - 0:50:13] ▶
Did they all say that?
[0:50:13 - 0:50:14] ▶
No, they were very guarded.
[0:50:14 - 0:50:15] ▶
But not like, no, it didn't happen.
[0:50:16 - 0:50:18] ▶
Well, you know, like guard, what you come in as outsiders to a place.
[0:50:19 - 0:50:25] ▶
Like, like it took when the film came out.
[0:50:26 - 0:50:29] ▶
And that was actually one of the reasons why the, the, the police officer, he's like, you're doing a serious investigation.
[0:50:29 - 0:50:35] ▶
One of the reasons why I'm talking to you is you, you're investigating something that I participated in.
[0:50:35 - 0:50:39] ▶
Like you, you clearly are taking this seriously.
[0:50:39 - 0:50:42] ▶
I'm, I'm, I'm providing a platform.
[0:50:42 - 0:50:44] ▶
We are providing a platform for people to come forward and not be ridiculed, not be laughed at, taken seriously.
[0:50:44 - 0:50:49] ▶
And like, you know, kind of like first time in decades.
[0:50:49 - 0:50:54] ▶
So they're seeing, this is a real effort to really get the truth out and power numbers, you know?
[0:50:55 - 0:50:59] ▶
And, um, um, and, and again, I, I think this is the beginning of the beginning on this case.
[0:50:59 - 0:51:06] ▶
I, I believe that, I mean, this is an extremely compelling, like new account, new cut of the, of the case, but I think it's going to get better.
[0:51:06 - 0:51:16] ▶
Well, I think if you believe that that's going to determine the outcome because you're the prime mover of a lot of this stuff.
[0:51:17 - 0:51:22] ▶
And I, I know you've given credit as it's due to many, uh, of these local Brazilian UFO researchers.
[0:51:22 - 0:51:29] ▶
Uh, but I think as far as mass exposure, you are, you are helping them, you know, really get this thing out and you keep going back.
[0:51:29 - 0:51:35] ▶
And so I really admire that.
[0:51:35 - 0:51:37] ▶
If this were a court case, you would have an overwhelming amount of evidence that something happened, whatever the thing is that you're trying to prove in court.
[0:51:37 - 0:51:47] ▶
This would be far beyond the threshold of evidence that you would need.
[0:51:47 - 0:51:52] ▶
I think we could sway any jury.
[0:51:52 - 0:51:53] ▶
I think you could sway any jury.
[0:51:53 - 0:51:55] ▶
And so the Ventarelli thing is just fascinating.
[0:51:55 - 0:51:58] ▶
You end up in a cafe with him.
[0:51:58 - 0:52:00] ▶
He gets very emotional.
[0:52:01 - 0:52:02] ▶
He starts crying because clearly he's held this in for 29 years.
[0:52:02 - 0:52:07] ▶
And you imagine the weight of that on your shoulders.
[0:52:08 - 0:52:10] ▶
You're watching all this speculation.
[0:52:11 - 0:52:12] ▶
You're watching all this conjecture, all this media coverage, the debunking going on from the media.
[0:52:12 - 0:52:16] ▶
Like, excuse me, the witnesses, you know, adamantly saying, you know, this is what I saw, particularly those, the three girls, you know, and then knowing that you sat in the hospital room in the ICU with a live captured alien and had direct telepathic communication.
[0:52:16 - 0:52:33] ▶
Doesn't get any more incredible than that.
[0:52:36 - 0:52:38] ▶
Like as someone who's been around the world.
[0:52:38 - 0:52:40] ▶
Interviewed people like, you know, we have close encounters of the third kind.
[0:52:41 - 0:52:45] ▶
You know, where people claim, you know, entities connected to a craft that's in the wild.
[0:52:46 - 0:52:50] ▶
I mean, it happened in Rua.
[0:52:50 - 0:52:52] ▶
It happened in Socorro.
[0:52:52 - 0:52:54] ▶
Um, you know, lots of cases in China, you know, all around the world.
[0:52:54 - 0:52:58] ▶
But that's like people seeing a landed craft and seeing entities connected allegedly to the craft.
[0:52:58 - 0:53:04] ▶
And that's close kind of thrift kind.
[0:53:04 - 0:53:05] ▶
But to actually have an alien, alleged alien in captivity and having direct contact, direct communication.
[0:53:05 - 0:53:14] ▶
He said, you look into the eyes of this creature.
[0:53:14 - 0:53:16] ▶
And despite the fact that it was in captivity, it had control of the whole room.
[0:53:16 - 0:53:20] ▶
Usually the person experiencing the thing is kind of discreditable.
[0:53:20 - 0:53:25] ▶
Often they live in, you know, somewhere in the woods or something.
[0:53:25 - 0:53:28] ▶
The interaction occurs in some remote place.
[0:53:28 - 0:53:31] ▶
And it's just this kind of inherently ephemeral thing where you have to take their word for it.
[0:53:31 - 0:53:34] ▶
I would actually say those people are sort of more trustworthy in some ways than like, you know, uh, often people who are kind of insidery types or whatever.
[0:53:34 - 0:53:43] ▶
But in this case, you have a person whose credentials are unimpeachable.
[0:53:43 - 0:53:48] ▶
He runs a chain of hospitals.
[0:53:48 - 0:53:50] ▶
He, you know, people are, are, their lives are on the line.
[0:53:50 - 0:53:54] ▶
Works on people's brains.
[0:53:54 - 0:53:55] ▶
Works on people's brains.
[0:53:55 - 0:53:56] ▶
He's a neurosurgeon.
[0:53:56 - 0:53:57] ▶
He's a concert pianist.
[0:53:57 - 0:53:58] ▶
And, you know, clearly all of the incentives go in the direction of the world.
[0:53:58 - 0:54:03] ▶
The incentives go in the direction of him not revealing any of this stuff.
[0:54:03 - 0:54:07] ▶
And because he's had a couple of light life threatening illnesses and scares, he comes out and speaks to you.
[0:54:07 - 0:54:14] ▶
What does he say about his interaction with the being?
[0:54:14 - 0:54:18] ▶
The being was very calm.
[0:54:18 - 0:54:21] ▶
And it was, it was, uh, it had sort of acquiesced to being in captivity and was very calm and that it was, it was okay.
[0:54:21 - 0:54:32] ▶
That it wasn't suffering.
[0:54:32 - 0:54:34] ▶
Um, and he said, when he looked into the eyes of it, it read his mind.
[0:54:35 - 0:54:42] ▶
Like it could just read all of his thoughts.
[0:54:42 - 0:54:45] ▶
He's like, it was an advanced intelligence.
[0:54:45 - 0:54:47] ▶
And I kept saying, like, what do you mean by that?
[0:54:47 - 0:54:49] ▶
He goes, there's nothing here on earth like it.
[0:54:49 - 0:54:51] ▶
He called it like an angel.
[0:54:51 - 0:54:54] ▶
That it was, it was, um, compassionate, caring, like an advanced intelligence.
[0:54:55 - 0:55:02] ▶
And I said, explain that.
[0:55:02 - 0:55:04] ▶
He goes, way more advanced than anything on earth.
[0:55:04 - 0:55:06] ▶
Way more advanced than, than myself.
[0:55:06 - 0:55:09] ▶
And that you, and he said that one of the last things he said was there's so much to learn from the eyes of that being.
[0:55:11 - 0:55:18] ▶
We have so much to learn in the eyes of this being.
[0:55:18 - 0:55:26] ▶
Just looking into the eyes.
[0:55:27 - 0:55:29] ▶
And it's just amazing to think, you know, think about that.
[0:55:30 - 0:55:34] ▶
And, you know, you hear other cases in the wild where people talk about, you know, looking in the eyes of the creature.
[0:55:34 - 0:55:39] ▶
You know, Secor, New Mexico.
[0:55:41 - 0:55:43] ▶
I remember the wife of Lonnie Zamora looking at me and she goes, I don't know what happened when he looked at that creature, but he was never the same.
[0:55:43 - 0:55:49] ▶
Like the community, there's some communication that occurs with the eyes.
[0:55:49 - 0:55:52] ▶
And that's exactly what he said.
[0:55:53 - 0:55:54] ▶
He said there's so much to learn from them and they're advanced, like more advanced somehow than, than human consciousness.
[0:55:54 - 0:56:02] ▶
And then what did he say about the physical characteristics?
[0:56:03 - 0:56:06] ▶
Um, big, big head, almond shaped eyes, they were red.
[0:56:06 - 0:56:10] ▶
Now, interestingly, the skin was more white than brown.
[0:56:10 - 0:56:14] ▶
And I don't know, this is just speculation, but when the girls came in contact with this being that was most likely the same being that he had in the hospital, because the chain, like the girls saw it, they got within 10 feet of it.
[0:56:15 - 0:56:28] ▶
It was a really hot day in the summertime, January summer over in Brazil, and it was suffering.
[0:56:29 - 0:56:35] ▶
It was like, kind of exuding some kind of weird smell, like, almost like a skunk would, you know, when it's fearful or feeling threatened or vulnerable.
[0:56:35 - 0:56:45] ▶
But his eyes were red, his skin was oily.
[0:56:45 - 0:56:49] ▶
I couldn't see him with an open mouth, laughing.
[0:56:49 - 0:56:52] ▶
No, not happy, but sad, hunched over, pale and sad, and he had no hair.
[0:56:52 - 0:56:58] ▶
And I saw that he was frightened.
[0:56:58 - 0:57:00] ▶
Just as I was frightened, the creature was also frightened.
[0:57:00 - 0:57:03] ▶
The desnana, the fear that we ourselves possess, just as we became afraid of this, this being whose nature we do not know.
[0:57:03 - 0:57:11] ▶
And it was suffering, and the girls said it was suffering.
[0:57:11 - 0:57:13] ▶
In fact, when all three girls came into contact with that creature, two of them, the two sisters, grabbed each other by the hand and hightailed it out of there.
[0:57:13 - 0:57:24] ▶
And they realized they had left Katya behind.
[0:57:24 - 0:57:26] ▶
Katya was the oldest.
[0:57:26 - 0:57:27] ▶
She was probably 21.
[0:57:27 - 0:57:29] ▶
And Valkyria and Liliani, the two sisters, stopped and realized, shoot, we got to go back and get Katya.
[0:57:29 - 0:57:37] ▶
And Katya was locked eyes with this creature.
[0:57:37 - 0:57:40] ▶
And it was pleading to her, because I asked Katya, what was it saying?
[0:57:40 - 0:57:44] ▶
It was like, I need help.
[0:57:44 - 0:57:45] ▶
And it was suffering.
[0:57:45 - 0:57:46] ▶
And I just thought, my gosh, can you imagine how different it would have been if they'd gone with, if the girls had taken the creature and hidden, or, you know, who knows, like, given it aid or whatever.
[0:57:48 - 0:57:59] ▶
Anyway, the girls, Liliani, Katya stayed behind.
[0:57:59 - 0:58:03] ▶
The youngest, she was like, maybe 14.
[0:58:03 - 0:58:06] ▶
Liliani ran back and grabbed Katya and yanked her out of there.
[0:58:09 - 0:58:13] ▶
And then, the reason why we're pretty sure that that's the same being that Dr. Italo had direct telepathic communication with in captivity is because we did all aerial photography of the area.
[0:58:13 - 0:58:26] ▶
And if you look at where the girls came encounter it, like, late afternoon with the creature, just a few blocks away is where the capture occurred.
[0:58:26 - 0:58:34] ▶
It had to be the same being.
[0:58:34 - 0:58:35] ▶
It was just literally two blocks away from where the two military officers, Marco Cherise and Eric Lopes captured the creature around six o'clock, something like that, about two hours later, two, two and a half.
[0:58:35 - 0:58:50] ▶
And then they took it to one little clinic.
[0:58:50 - 0:58:54] ▶
And apparently, the doctor came out and took one look in the back seat.
[0:58:54 - 0:58:57] ▶
And there was, you know, Marco Cherise, military officer with this creature on it.
[0:58:57 - 0:59:02] ▶
And he's like, I don't know what that thing is, but get it out of here.
[0:59:02 - 0:59:04] ▶
So then they went to regional hospital and that's where Italo was.
[0:59:04 - 0:59:09] ▶
So it makes perfectly good sense.
[0:59:09 - 0:59:11] ▶
We knew that that creature went to regional.
[0:59:11 - 0:59:13] ▶
And so it went, it, when the women saw it, it was like brown or darker.
[0:59:13 - 0:59:18] ▶
And then when he saw it, it was somehow whiter.
[0:59:19 - 0:59:21] ▶
It was, it was more of a white, big red eyes, just like the girls described the little ridges on the, on the forehead, just like that spindly arms, same height, same exact body structure.
[0:59:21 - 0:59:33] ▶
Everything exactly the same, but the skin was more white.
[0:59:33 - 0:59:37] ▶
Do you think it was because it had, was emitting the ammonia or sulfur?
[0:59:37 - 0:59:40] ▶
Because both, everybody says that it was, smelled like rotten eggs.
[0:59:40 - 0:59:45] ▶
And it was ammonia or sulfur or some, some sort of smell.
[0:59:46 - 0:59:49] ▶
She immediately smelled ammonia.
[0:59:49 - 0:59:52] ▶
It was like rotten eggs, a very strong odor.
[0:59:52 - 0:59:55] ▶
I had to cover my nose with the shirt I was wearing.
[0:59:55 - 0:59:58] ▶
I couldn't stand the smell that was right here inside my nose.
[0:59:59 - 1:00:02] ▶
It lasted for about 20 days.
[1:00:02 - 1:00:04] ▶
And I have no idea where that awful odor came from.
[1:00:04 - 1:00:07] ▶
I even went so far as to wash my nose with alcohol and water just to get rid of that smell.
[1:00:07 - 1:00:12] ▶
Stayed in the sin, in the sinuses for days, if not weeks.
[1:00:12 - 1:00:16] ▶
And like, um, there was another one, which was one of the deceased ones.
[1:00:17 - 1:00:21] ▶
We interviewed a radiologist.
[1:00:21 - 1:00:23] ▶
I think he was at regional hospital.
[1:00:23 - 1:00:25] ▶
Pretty sure it was regional.
[1:00:25 - 1:00:26] ▶
And, uh, he said that the room where the, he did the performance of doing the x-rays that stank like for, they had to close that wing of the hospital down for days.
[1:00:26 - 1:00:36] ▶
And they disinfected the whole thing.
[1:00:36 - 1:00:39] ▶
And he said it took days and it was in his sinuses.
[1:00:39 - 1:00:41] ▶
Did the smell leave?
[1:00:42 - 1:00:44] ▶
But even after being washed and disinfected, the epidemic smell still lingered in the ward.
[1:00:44 - 1:00:52] ▶
In fact, our sector was closed because it couldn't accommodate external patients due to the very strong odor.
[1:00:52 - 1:00:59] ▶
So we're having a big meeting in a week.
[1:00:59 - 1:01:02] ▶
We're meeting with, uh, pretty much all the doctors.
[1:01:03 - 1:01:08] ▶
Some of them, you know, at humanitas hospital, uh, have stories.
[1:01:10 - 1:01:15] ▶
Some of them aren't ready to come forward just yet.
[1:01:15 - 1:01:17] ▶
Some of them might want to come forward, but there's power in numbers, strength in numbers.
[1:01:17 - 1:01:21] ▶
And, um, according to the book by Roger Lear, uh, there was another creature that was alive that went under a procedure.
[1:01:21 - 1:01:31] ▶
Cause a lot of them got hurt in the crash, evidently.
[1:01:31 - 1:01:33] ▶
Um, that also had communication with the two doctors, but they're at humanitas.
[1:01:33 - 1:01:38] ▶
And so we're trying to find those guys right now.
[1:01:38 - 1:01:40] ▶
And Roger Lear was contacting me.
[1:01:40 - 1:01:41] ▶
It was probably 2013.
[1:01:41 - 1:01:43] ▶
And he was like, I know you're doing something on, on Virginia.
[1:01:43 - 1:01:46] ▶
And I got to talk to you.
[1:01:46 - 1:01:47] ▶
I got to talk to you.
[1:01:47 - 1:01:48] ▶
I said, yeah, we definitely got to talk.
[1:01:48 - 1:01:49] ▶
I got to go on camera.
[1:01:50 - 1:01:51] ▶
There's things that he discussed.
[1:01:51 - 1:01:52] ▶
And, uh, and I said, I kept like postponing and postponing.
[1:01:52 - 1:01:56] ▶
I was working like 17 hour days.
[1:01:57 - 1:01:58] ▶
I could barely talk.
[1:01:59 - 1:02:00] ▶
And, um, he goes, well, you got really angry with me.
[1:02:00 - 1:02:04] ▶
And he was like, well, if you're not going to meet with me, I said, Roger, Dr. Lear, Roger, I, it's not that I don't want to meet with you.
[1:02:04 - 1:02:10] ▶
I just, I don't have the bandwidth right now.
[1:02:10 - 1:02:12] ▶
And he goes, well, look, take my tapes.
[1:02:12 - 1:02:14] ▶
He gives me his tapes.
[1:02:14 - 1:02:15] ▶
And I don't know how much time went by, but I don't know.
[1:02:15 - 1:02:19] ▶
Uh, but I transferred the tapes.
[1:02:20 - 1:02:23] ▶
I sent them back to him and he died.
[1:02:23 - 1:02:25] ▶
And then, uh, fast forward.
[1:02:25 - 1:02:28] ▶
And that was very unfortunate.
[1:02:28 - 1:02:29] ▶
Fast forward, probably 10 years, I'm guessing or ish.
[1:02:29 - 1:02:33] ▶
I was making moment of contact because I, I was going to include, uh, Virginia in the phenomenon.
[1:02:33 - 1:02:40] ▶
And then I just couldn't squeeze it in.
[1:02:41 - 1:02:43] ▶
It was too, there's too many moving parts.
[1:02:43 - 1:02:44] ▶
So when I was making the whole movie on it, I was like, oh shit.
[1:02:45 - 1:02:48] ▶
I was like the Roger Lear tapes.
[1:02:48 - 1:02:49] ▶
He wrote a book, got the book.
[1:02:51 - 1:02:54] ▶
And the book was a transcript, transcription from the tapes.
[1:02:54 - 1:02:58] ▶
Cause I had the tapes and I read the book.
[1:02:58 - 1:03:00] ▶
And, uh, but there was one section that wasn't in the tapes that was in the book.
[1:03:00 - 1:03:03] ▶
And that was, he met with two doctors from Humanitas hospital.
[1:03:03 - 1:03:08] ▶
And they talk about a creature that was also undergoing some sort of procedure at Humanitas.
[1:03:08 - 1:03:13] ▶
And then all of a sudden there's this crazy thing that occurs in the room where there's this communication and weird smoke and just crazy.
[1:03:13 - 1:03:22] ▶
And the communication was basically like the entity saying to the doctors that we feel sorry for you, the human race, because you don't realize your potential, who you really are.
[1:03:22 - 1:03:33] ▶
Which is the same message that the, in Roe Zimbabwe.
[1:03:35 - 1:03:38] ▶
The same message with these school children, where it's like, you don't understand how special you are and your potential.
[1:03:39 - 1:03:45] ▶
True potential and stuff like this.
[1:03:45 - 1:03:46] ▶
So I was like, oh my gosh, if I could just get the name.
[1:03:46 - 1:03:50] ▶
And apparently, uh, Uber DeGio Rodriguez, who's one of the leading investigators, a lawyer, um, who's gone.
[1:03:50 - 1:03:57] ▶
I don't know what happened to him.
[1:03:57 - 1:03:59] ▶
Pacacini got threatened.
[1:03:59 - 1:04:00] ▶
He disappeared for 20 years.
[1:04:00 - 1:04:01] ▶
Uber DeGio Rodriguez.
[1:04:01 - 1:04:03] ▶
God knows what he has, cause he hasn't come forward and said yet.
[1:04:03 - 1:04:06] ▶
Pacacini apparently was shot at.
[1:04:06 - 1:04:07] ▶
He talks about it recently.
[1:04:09 - 1:04:10] ▶
Cause he disappeared for 20 years.
[1:04:10 - 1:04:11] ▶
He said he was shot at.
[1:04:12 - 1:04:13] ▶
He was shot at, and he had a gun.
[1:04:13 - 1:04:14] ▶
He, and he shot back.
[1:04:14 - 1:04:15] ▶
And he says he would put his right hand on the Bible.
[1:04:15 - 1:04:17] ▶
He said he would testify, like, like he would, he would put his right hand on a Bible and he would take a public lie detector test.
[1:04:18 - 1:04:24] ▶
About there being video and footage of this alien.
[1:04:24 - 1:04:27] ▶
I'm Vittorio Pacacini.
[1:04:30 - 1:04:31] ▶
I am one of the leading investigators of the Virginia incident since the very beginning.
[1:04:31 - 1:04:36] ▶
I know, and I saw with my own eyes, an alien creature kept in captivity in this 35 second video.
[1:04:36 - 1:04:46] ▶
It was right there, one of the alien creatures with two militaries holding the creature by the shoulders.
[1:04:46 - 1:04:54] ▶
The creature was really ill, was not feeling good at all.
[1:04:54 - 1:04:59] ▶
They tried to give the creature some fruit and water.
[1:04:59 - 1:05:03] ▶
And the reason why they filmed this creature without superior authorization, it's because they were pretty mad that the American militaries were coming to Brazil to take all these material.
[1:05:04 - 1:05:20] ▶
Not only the pictures, the footage, but the creatures itself and the spacecraft as they took it to the United States.
[1:05:20 - 1:05:29] ▶
So, some other militaries friend of mine had the chance without authorization to make this movie.
[1:05:29 - 1:05:39] ▶
And right now, I'm willing to put my right hand tomorrow on a Bible and take a live public light detector test that everything I'm telling you is the truth.
[1:05:39 - 1:05:51] ▶
Now, he grew up in Tres Corazones, which is like the region, Minas Gerais, where the Eza military base is.
[1:05:53 - 1:05:59] ▶
So, he knew all those people that worked at the base.
[1:05:59 - 1:06:01] ▶
So, like, after all the investigations, his life threatened and all the stuff that went down, he said he got to go to the base.
[1:06:03 - 1:06:08] ▶
And then when Moment of Contact, the first version came out in 2022, that's when Peccacini came back on the radar and it was like, hey, you know what?
[1:06:08 - 1:06:19] ▶
I'm ready to get back in the ring.
[1:06:19 - 1:06:20] ▶
And finish this fight.
[1:06:21 - 1:06:23] ▶
So, you have multiple people in the hospital system.
[1:06:24 - 1:06:27] ▶
You've now gotten military whistleblowers.
[1:06:27 - 1:06:30] ▶
You have civilian witnesses.
[1:06:30 - 1:06:31] ▶
I have the guy that drove it.
[1:06:31 - 1:06:33] ▶
You have the guy that drove the being.
[1:06:33 - 1:06:35] ▶
That saw it and drove it.
[1:06:36 - 1:06:37] ▶
So, like, the amount of disparate, uncorrelated sources, I think, is just…
[1:06:37 - 1:06:42] ▶
And that comes from you literally touching down in Virginia and on a piece of paper, like, do you know what happened in 1996?
[1:06:43 - 1:06:51] ▶
What does he think about the case?
[1:06:51 - 1:06:52] ▶
Does he think it happened or it didn't happen?
[1:06:52 - 1:06:54] ▶
What are your feelings on Virginia?
[1:06:55 - 1:06:57] ▶
It's always the same thing that appeared, that the girls saw.
[1:06:58 - 1:07:02] ▶
I really believe in the case of E.T.
[1:07:02 - 1:07:04] ▶
You have two types of people in this movie.
[1:07:05 - 1:07:08] ▶
People who are extremely afraid and admitting what they saw.
[1:07:08 - 1:07:11] ▶
And all of those stories line up.
[1:07:11 - 1:07:13] ▶
Everything lines up perfectly.
[1:07:13 - 1:07:14] ▶
And it all lines up perfectly.
[1:07:14 - 1:07:15] ▶
Unbelievable how it was.
[1:07:15 - 1:07:16] ▶
You have a flight path of the UFO.
[1:07:16 - 1:07:17] ▶
You have all these witnesses in these disparate, you know, places who aren't coordinating clearly.
[1:07:17 - 1:07:22] ▶
And then, so that's one type of person.
[1:07:22 - 1:07:25] ▶
And then you have the other type of people that are, like, lying through their teeth.
[1:07:25 - 1:07:29] ▶
And so, like, the commander at ESA is General Lima.
[1:07:29 - 1:07:35] ▶
We're in touch with him now, by the way.
[1:07:36 - 1:07:37] ▶
You gotta talk to him because even if he lies to you, you know, it's like, you see the smugness when he goes, you know, we were serving our country that day.
[1:07:38 - 1:07:47] ▶
Yeah, national security.
[1:07:47 - 1:07:48] ▶
Can we get some, yeah, can we get some details on, like, how you served the country that day?
[1:07:48 - 1:07:52] ▶
He said, no, absolutely not.
[1:07:53 - 1:07:54] ▶
And, but he says it in such a, like, a condescending cynical, like, I don't care what you think sort of way.
[1:07:54 - 1:08:01] ▶
And then walks away.
[1:08:01 - 1:08:02] ▶
There was another part to this.
[1:08:02 - 1:08:29] ▶
When interviews were conducted.
[1:08:29 - 1:08:31] ▶
And that's when Euclides and Calado, the two young men from here, traveled all the way to the sergeant's school of arms in Tres Corazones.
[1:08:31 - 1:08:42] ▶
Then they managed to, to ask a question.
[1:08:42 - 1:08:45] ▶
Then the sergeant went inside, came back and said, no, but aren't you going to say anything about the case?
[1:08:45 - 1:08:51] ▶
Look, if you ask one more question, you'll be arrested.
[1:08:51 - 1:08:54] ▶
We were investigating the case at the ESA headquarters, the sergeant's school of arms.
[1:08:54 - 1:09:01] ▶
And I had never been arrested for doing my job, neither before nor after this case.
[1:09:01 - 1:09:10] ▶
I was just having a normal, regular day at the barracks, you know.
[1:09:10 - 1:09:14] ▶
Then, around nine o'clock in the morning, we received orders, a mission to get some vehicles ready.
[1:09:14 - 1:09:20] ▶
You know, some trucks specifically for an important operation.
[1:09:20 - 1:09:24] ▶
And that we, our unit, would be deploying, we would be moving out, heading directly to the city of Virginia.
[1:09:24 - 1:09:31] ▶
We were given the order that we should proceed to follow a number of specific vehicles, which were clearly unmarked and definitely not military.
[1:09:31 - 1:09:42] ▶
So I followed this military man, you know, who was from the Secret Service, passing through the city center near the hospital, if I'm not mistaken, the regional hospital.
[1:09:42 - 1:09:55] ▶
And afterwards, we went to Humanitas Hospital.
[1:09:55 - 1:09:58] ▶
When the instruction was given to, to back a vehicle up into Humanitas Hospital.
[1:10:01 - 1:10:07] ▶
When I was approaching the entrance, how exactly can I express it, of the hospital's immediate surroundings?
[1:10:07 - 1:10:17] ▶
I noticed a container, a stainless steel table with a container on it, you know, with several doctors and other staff members holding clipboards.
[1:10:17 - 1:10:28] ▶
As I was analyzing, it seemed that everyone else was also caught up in the same thing.
[1:10:28 - 1:10:38] ▶
And when I realized, I saw something completely different.
[1:10:38 - 1:10:42] ▶
You know, a different kind of creature, with skin that was very oily, very, I describe it as having a sort of silicone-like texture.
[1:10:43 - 1:10:53] ▶
And that sight really startled me.
[1:10:53 - 1:10:56] ▶
But what truly caught my attention, what later convinced me that it wasn't a human being at all, was its foot.
[1:10:56 - 1:11:04] ▶
Everyone was completely taken aback by the news.
[1:11:08 - 1:11:10] ▶
They were all incredibly, incredibly surprised.
[1:11:10 - 1:11:13] ▶
We have for the first time ever as well, we have the police officer, which had been trying to get to him for so long.
[1:11:14 - 1:11:19] ▶
Marco Leal was going by his house, knocking on his door.
[1:11:19 - 1:11:22] ▶
He would set up arrangements for us to meet with him.
[1:11:22 - 1:11:25] ▶
And it was always, it was like slipping between your feet.
[1:11:26 - 1:11:29] ▶
It's like trying to grab a bar of soap in the bathtub.
[1:11:29 - 1:11:31] ▶
You know, it's like, poo, poo, like you got your hand on it, but then it's like gone, you know?
[1:11:31 - 1:11:34] ▶
And that was the former chief of police, Agriar, Pedro Agriar.
[1:11:34 - 1:11:40] ▶
And he had, he had, he had, he had, allegedly, according to people that tracked him down, he had a photograph of one of the things.
[1:11:40 - 1:11:47] ▶
But anyway, um, he described the activity at the base.
[1:11:47 - 1:11:51] ▶
He was at the base as chief of police.
[1:11:51 - 1:11:54] ▶
He was invited in there and he said that he described it just like everybody else.
[1:11:54 - 1:11:57] ▶
Every single bit of testimony from separate people from all over the area, all fits perfectly.
[1:11:57 - 1:12:04] ▶
It's like putting together a piece of puzzle, right? Not once have we had it any other way.
[1:12:04 - 1:12:09] ▶
Like, you know, we're putting these pieces together.
[1:12:09 - 1:12:11] ▶
So now the piece we're missing is on the American side and we want to get with Humanitas Hospital.
[1:12:11 - 1:12:17] ▶
So it's like ongoing.
[1:12:17 - 1:12:19] ▶
Yeah. Well, the chief police says this is not a story. It's history.
[1:12:19 - 1:12:23] ▶
Oh yeah. It's a great movie. And it's, it's, he just, he said, you know, this happened.
[1:12:26 - 1:12:30] ▶
He said I participated. Absolutely. And are you at all conspiratorial about the fact that he just died and that you were about to go in a couple of weeks to go see him?
[1:12:31 - 1:12:42] ▶
Yeah, again, I know.
[1:12:42 - 1:12:43] ▶
And he, and allegedly he has a photo of the ET being.
[1:12:43 - 1:12:46] ▶
Do you think that that timing is coincidental?
[1:12:47 - 1:12:50] ▶
I mean, anything's possible. It's very unfortunate.
[1:12:50 - 1:12:53] ▶
Was he in good health? Do you know?
[1:12:53 - 1:12:55] ▶
I mean, he's on, you see him on camera.
[1:12:55 - 1:12:57] ▶
Yeah. And that was, that was, you filmed that. What?
[1:12:57 - 1:12:59] ▶
Yeah. You filmed that like not too long ago.
[1:12:59 - 1:13:01] ▶
We knocked. So it was really crazy. Actually, it was just a couple of months ago. And, um, we were, we were going to doorstep him on the way to Virginia. And I say doorstep and just show up at the door. Right.
[1:13:01 - 1:13:11] ▶
And, uh, for some reason I was like, I want to stop and get a slice of pizza. And everyone's like, we got to keep moving. It was like five o'clock or 430 or something. I really was really hungry and I wanted to get a slice of pizza. So we stopped reluctantly. Half the crew was like, oh, we got to keep moving.
[1:13:12 - 1:13:27] ▶
Well, as it turns out, it was perfect because we, the owner of the pizza joint, you know, gave us pizza, gave us like really good. You know, we took like an hour and we just spent a really fun time having pizza with the owner of this pizza joint near the area where we're going.
[1:13:27 - 1:13:43] ▶
But it set us back at least, at least 60 minutes, possibly 90 minutes. But, you know, it was a little later. Maybe it was like seven, seven 30 at that point. And we show up at his house and they had just gotten home like 10 minutes earlier. So we would have missed them had we not gone and stopped to get that pizza.
[1:13:43 - 1:13:58] ▶
And, uh, what we did was is we, you know, we started talking to him at the door. Then we went inside and we had, we had some, we had audio. One of us had audio rolling and the guy in the car outside had, you know, our sound guy had a, you know, it was remote transmitted back to a receiver. That was just, you know, the audio.
[1:13:58 - 1:14:16] ▶
And then we're talking, getting to know his wife, his son. And then I said, would you mind if we bring a camera in here just to kind of, you know, document the moment a little bit, just ease our way into it. No, that's okay. So then comes the camera. We're all sitting down and talking and his wife, I'll never forget this. And I think I have a cut of it somewhere, but his wife had these, like her eyes were so big and like, kind of just like, and her wife was looking at her husband, like, like just,
[1:14:16 - 1:14:46] ▶
wouldn't blink. And I'm looking over at my cameraman, Dave, and I'm like, are you getting, you know, she's just looking at him. Like, I'm thinking, does she, does she have the photograph? Like, does she, you know, I don't know. Is she worried that we're in there probing? And, and at one point we asked him, like, when things got more comfortable and he goes, I'm a, I participate, I'm a witness. He saw the creature under a tarp, maybe the bottom half or something. And then he went into, as a military base, the activity, helicopters coming and landing. He goes,
[1:14:46 - 1:15:16] ▶
more brass than I'd ever seen ever before. Like there were higher ups from all different corners of Brazil, all there. Maybe even
[1:15:16 - 1:15:23] ▶
implying at some point, the Amer, no, he did say the Americans came, they came to Campinas. He said that too.
[1:15:23 - 1:15:28] ▶
Yeah. Uh, and took the goodies, but, um, but, uh, he seemed to be in relatively good health. I mean, he, you know, he didn't look like he was going to win like a triathlon or anything, but he was in, I mean, he's in the movie.
[1:15:28 - 1:15:40] ▶
Yep. And, um, and he just died.
[1:15:40 - 1:15:44] ▶
Yeah. And he might've had a photo or footage.
[1:15:45 - 1:15:49] ▶
Yeah. Well, we talked to two witnesses. One of the primary reasons that led us to him were two people that described, he pulled the photograph out and showed it. And it had, uh, one alive, one, one deceased creature. And it had, uh, military police and a, and fire department, uh, in the picture with their faces that, you know, that's according to the witnesses that we talked to. And when I pressed him on it, and I don't want to push too hard, but I definitely pressed him on it. I've got the footage.
[1:15:49 - 1:16:17] ▶
He said, um, I was like, well, when I talked to you a couple of years ago on a video zoom call, you can, you confess that you had the photograph or at one point you had the photograph. And now you're saying you don't have the photograph. Like what's, you know, and I really pressed him on it. Um, what did he say?
[1:16:17 - 1:16:35] ▶
He said, well, there's certain things within the police department that have to go on set or something like that.
[1:16:35 - 1:16:40] ▶
Come on, dude. Just let it out.
[1:16:41 - 1:16:44] ▶
You, you, you, uh, there's, uh, you know, and I feel the frustration from people out there like, oh, there's not a picture. There's not a video. First of all, I never give up and I'm not giving up. I will never give up. I'm getting closer. We are, as a team are getting closer and closer and closer. And the developments that are happening are unprecedented. It's an ongoing investigation. I'm not giving up. I think this is the case that's going to blow it all out in the open. That's my humble opinion, because I can't think of a better crash retrieval case involving the Americans.
[1:16:44 - 1:17:13] ▶
It's recent enough where most of the people are still alive. Right. Like, unless you can, I can't think of a crash retrieval case with live aliens better than Virginia.
[1:17:13 - 1:17:22] ▶
No, I think it's the best recent case. And, and, um, again, I think if this were a murder case, you'd have more than enough evidence that it happened.
[1:17:22 - 1:17:31] ▶
Yeah. No question. And so like, there's this, you know, you want a smoking gun? You'd be, maybe you don't have that.
[1:17:31 - 1:17:38] ▶
But like, I, I bet you in the world of deep fakes, if you've produced a photo, the, the, the, the goalposts would move and there'd still be skeptics who'd say, oh, look at the photo is blah, blah, blah. It's blurry. Blah, blah, blah. You know?
[1:17:38 - 1:17:50] ▶
Unless the neurosurgeon who shot the video came forward. So you have provenance that would.
[1:17:50 - 1:17:56] ▶
I think that'd be pretty good. I think that would be as good as you can get. I think that'd be as good as you can get.
[1:17:56 - 1:18:01] ▶
And then it is what it is. It is what it is. Yeah. Um, Jose Fernandez is this, uh, air traffic controller.
[1:18:01 - 1:18:07] ▶
Yes. Who, what, what does he see?
[1:18:08 - 1:18:10] ▶
His unit was responsible for monitoring specific airspace over the state of Sao Paulo.
[1:18:10 - 1:18:16] ▶
Do you know anything about this case?
[1:18:16 - 1:18:19] ▶
What I am aware of, uh, is that the U.S. Air Force made a landing in Campinas, a specific aircraft belonging to the United States Air Force landed there in Campinas.
[1:18:19 - 1:18:30] ▶
And following that, two helicopters took off from the very same Campinas airport, proceeding to an entirely unknown destination, which we later came to understand was the city of Virginia.
[1:18:30 - 1:18:41] ▶
They landed, collected something that no one knows what it was, then returned to Campinas, placed it inside the U.S. aircraft, and then they took off.
[1:18:41 - 1:18:54] ▶
They were gone. And the mission was what we were told was silence.
[1:18:55 - 1:19:01] ▶
So it was really funny, actually, because let's back up a little bit, but a couple of years, and I was just talking to Lou Elizondo about this.
[1:19:01 - 1:19:08] ▶
Lou was pestering me before I had a, I had a final cut of the first version of Moment of Contact.
[1:19:10 - 1:19:17] ▶
And he was like, I need a copy. And little did I know about what was happening behind the scenes.
[1:19:17 - 1:19:22] ▶
I need a copy. I said, Lou, it's not done. He goes, I don't care. I need a copy.
[1:19:22 - 1:19:25] ▶
And I said, okay, sure. He goes, have you had any idea who's watching this right now?
[1:19:25 - 1:19:31] ▶
And basically, Lou was like, okay, this case is absolutely amazing, but the air traffic controller who talked about USAAF coming in without any government regulations.
[1:19:31 - 1:19:43] ▶
They didn't have government approval.
[1:19:43 - 1:19:44] ▶
USAAF is U.S. Air Force.
[1:19:45 - 1:19:46] ▶
Exactly. But I kept hearing USAAF, and I was like, USAAF, what's this guy talking?
[1:19:46 - 1:19:49] ▶
Oh, United States Air Force. The acronym USAF.
[1:19:49 - 1:19:53] ▶
And that was one of the aspects that Lou really wanted to share. To this day, he hasn't told me exactly who's watching it, but I think it was like, maybe if there are certain restrictions on people like Lou or Grush, who knows?
[1:19:53 - 1:20:08] ▶
Like they could show him the movie, show him the compelling case, eyewitness testimony, and then having the flight control.
[1:20:08 - 1:20:14] ▶
What do you call the radar control officer? The people that monitor the planes that are coming into Brazil.
[1:20:14 - 1:20:18] ▶
That's, what do you call that?
[1:20:18 - 1:20:19] ▶
Air traffic controller.
[1:20:19 - 1:20:20] ▶
Air traffic controller.
[1:20:20 - 1:20:21] ▶
Okay, so it would have been air traffic controller talked about this. You have to have government approval to land a foreign plane coming into, you know, Brazilian soil.
[1:20:21 - 1:20:31] ▶
And apparently this plane deviated from going to Sao Paulo to Campinas. And Campinas is where we know, according to all the eyewitnesses, including the guy that drove it, that's where the ET went.
[1:20:31 - 1:20:45] ▶
So for the, have the United States, the USAF land in Campinas makes perfectly good sense. Like I said earlier, all the pieces of the puzzle line up, it all lines up perfectly. Like every single person, there's not been one conflicting testimony. There's been a date here and there where it's like, oh, well, maybe it was earlier, maybe it was later. We don't know, but everything else lines up perfectly.
[1:20:45 - 1:21:02] ▶
And you use the United States Freedom of Information Act to try to get information from the Air Force about flight law.
[1:21:02 - 1:21:10] ▶
And so, and from the U.S. to Virginia in 1996 and what came back?
[1:21:11 - 1:21:17] ▶
Well, I tried to, I tried to cover all of our bases and our team, we filed a FOIA and in 2022, I think it was. Yeah, it was probably 2022. And I'd forgotten about it quite honestly, because it's like years went by. And all of a sudden we get a response from the CIA, which is weird.
[1:21:17 - 1:21:34] ▶
I don't know. I mean, I'm not a huge FOIA guy, but I mean, the CIA, like really? And it's basically like, you know, cause I asked for records. I was thinking like, okay, so let's just like back up. Let's give it like a window of 10 days or whatever. So we know the incident happened. A lot of the sightings were on the 20th of January. So why don't you back it up a little bit?
[1:21:34 - 1:21:53] ▶
Crashed a little earlier. So I think it was like January 13th to say January 27th, something like this, just to cover, you know, any planes that came in from the United States Air Force.
[1:21:53 - 1:22:03] ▶
Well, it was a 10 day window, two week window that landed in Campinas, get all those flight records. Because I was talking to an individual who for a long time was anonymous. And then he was so knowledgeable. I was like, wow, this guy's incredible. Who are you?
[1:22:03 - 1:22:19] ▶
And he goes, well, actually, I'm a colonel in the United States Air Force. I was a fighter pilot, blah, blah, blah. And he has since come forward with us. And he had a really dramatic UFO encounter in 1980 or something like that. But he was giving me guidance on like what to ask and where to ask and all that stuff. And blanket statement from the CIA. Basically, that's like either national security classified or exempt from FOIA because of XYZ.
[1:22:19 - 1:22:45] ▶
Because of this 1949 provision.
[1:22:45 - 1:22:48] ▶
I can't even get a flight record.
[1:22:49 - 1:22:51] ▶
It's always a tell, too, when you request from one agency and then they forward it to the other agency, which the other agency would obviously have, you know, this article came out in the Daily Mail about the Office of Global Access run under the CIA around their rapid response, you know, global crash retrieval team. And the article is amazing. Like it mentions, I think, Doug Wolf as like the head of the OGA.
[1:22:51 - 1:23:15] ▶
And so they probably would have been in charge of this sort of thing. So the fact that the Air Force is forwarding this to the CIA is such a tell. CIA runs all foreign intelligence, obviously, for the U.S. Such a tell that they were involved in this case.
[1:23:15 - 1:23:30] ▶
I mean, it's honestly funny. It's like an admission of, you know, involvement in some ways. You know, I just interviewed a guy named Dan Sherman and he wrote a book called Above Black.
[1:23:30 - 1:23:40] ▶
And he was a cool title. Amazing title. And same story. He was Air Force Electronics Intelligence. All of his stuff with, you know, his ELINT Electronics Intelligence career lines up with like I've I've had multiple ELINT people come out after this interview I've done with him saying this guy was definitely U.S. Air Force ELINT.
[1:23:40 - 1:24:03] ▶
Like, like, like, just very matter of fact, very intelligent, kind of on the kind of traditional vector of of signals intelligence. And he said that he was part of this secret NSA program. And it was called Project Preserve Destiny. And it was he was supposed to do this kind of continuing ELINT education, you know, in Air Force. But while he was there, he was taken to this complex, this NSA complex at Maryland.
[1:24:03 - 1:24:28] ▶
And this was in 1991 or two. And he was told to drink this, you know, drink and and then kind of hook himself up, like match the tones that he would hear with these headphones that this computer would would play and lock into them.
[1:24:28 - 1:24:45] ▶
And that's how he would kind of gain telepathic access to alien communication.
[1:24:45 - 1:24:50] ▶
And this was really interesting. Independently, this researcher FOIA, the Air Force said, does, you know, just asking for information about Project Preserve Destiny. His name is Noah Roddick.
[1:24:51 - 1:25:01] ▶
I've been in Noah. If you're out there, please confirm this because I don't believe he mentioned Dan Sherman's name at all.
[1:25:02 - 1:25:08] ▶
They forward the FOIA request to the NSA.
[1:25:08 - 1:25:12] ▶
That's telling right there.
[1:25:12 - 1:25:15] ▶
Yeah. And the NSA, of course, gets back and says, you know, we can't, we did not confirm or deny the existence or non-existence of this program.
[1:25:15 - 1:25:22] ▶
In fact, didn't they say that in my FOIA, right?
[1:25:22 - 1:25:24] ▶
Yeah, it's the same thing.
[1:25:24 - 1:25:25] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's such the bigger tell is you have one agency forwarding it to the other agency.
[1:25:25 - 1:25:31] ▶
It's like, okay, that then the second agency was obviously involved. Why wouldn't the agency you sent the initial thing to just respond?
[1:25:31 - 1:25:38] ▶
I get emails all the time. People reaching out on all the various platforms.
[1:25:42 - 1:25:46] ▶
I got an email from someone and I could pretty much like, I could read it pretty quickly and determine, you know what I mean?
[1:25:47 - 1:25:53] ▶
Like some experience I've heard, I've had been contacted by alleged witnesses and stuff like that for decades.
[1:25:53 - 1:25:59] ▶
And you could kind of sift out the crazy pretty quickly.
[1:25:59 - 1:26:03] ▶
And, um, I think it was like a year ago, maybe, maybe a little over a year ago.
[1:26:03 - 1:26:08] ▶
I got this email and I read it and I just, I time stopped. I was like, Oh my gosh.
[1:26:09 - 1:26:15] ▶
And it was basically someone that claimed, uh, I have the email. I'll show it to you offline.
[1:26:15 - 1:26:20] ▶
And, um, claim to have been part of the Virginia operation from Campinas. It was a USAF. He goes, I was on the flight.
[1:26:20 - 1:26:28] ▶
Yes. I swear to God.
[1:26:29 - 1:26:30] ▶
What happened? Did you get in touch?
[1:26:30 - 1:26:31] ▶
Well, so I was like, Oh my, it was just this moment. Like I was, I was overwhelmed with excitement. Right.
[1:26:31 - 1:26:38] ▶
And I gave all the details. I'll let you read it. And, um, I was involved.
[1:26:39 - 1:26:43] ▶
This is weighed on me for almost 30 years and my family.
[1:26:43 - 1:26:46] ▶
Yeah. You have to be very careful how you reach out to me. If you do it this way or that way, I'm going to cut all ties.
[1:26:47 - 1:26:53] ▶
Like it has to be this way, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I'll, whatever you want, let's do it.
[1:26:53 - 1:26:57] ▶
Whatever makes you comfortable.
[1:26:57 - 1:26:58] ▶
I didn't hear anything for about 24 hours, maybe a little longer. And this individual, this individual said, Oh, my systems were hacked. And that wasn't me that wrote that.
[1:26:58 - 1:27:10] ▶
Did you do some follow-up and research?
[1:27:12 - 1:27:13] ▶
To figure out who this person was?
[1:27:14 - 1:27:15] ▶
So, yes. And, and, but when, when this individual reached out and I have a Proton email now, which I'll provide to you, you can put it on the screen at some point.
[1:27:15 - 1:27:24] ▶
Because there was, it was through Google, it was through Gmail when I thought, well, that was silly. Like, why did you contact me through Gmail?
[1:27:25 - 1:27:31] ▶
You know, that's easily hacked and it really worried me when I got it.
[1:27:31 - 1:27:35] ▶
But I only way, oh, that was only, he didn't leave me a number or I couldn't find him on signal. Like, so I responded just the way he told me to respond.
[1:27:35 - 1:27:42] ▶
And the feeling I had certainly from his response later was that somebody, he got a phone call, something happened, shut this down. I don't know. But it seems so authentic. Like, it seems so like this guy was really part of it. I don't know if that guy is listening to this message right now in any way, shape or form, like reach out. You'll provide the Proton email that I'll give you.
[1:27:42 - 1:28:04] ▶
You can put it on the screen.
[1:28:04 - 1:28:05] ▶
But so, uh, did you do some background research on this person?
[1:28:06 - 1:28:10] ▶
I, I did through some connections of mine. Yes.
[1:28:10 - 1:28:13] ▶
It was the Air Force.
[1:28:13 - 1:28:14] ▶
And, um, did, so is it plausible that what he was saying was correct?
[1:28:19 - 1:28:25] ▶
Yeah. I mean, Gabe, like, you'll see.
[1:28:27 - 1:28:29] ▶
Do you find any colleagues of his or anything?
[1:28:29 - 1:28:31] ▶
Uh, no. And, and, uh, you know, since then I, I was putting out the program and then in record time, I put out the new cut of moment of contact, nine months from concept to completion to delivery, nine months, which is a history.
[1:28:31 - 1:28:44] ▶
Like I, I have had so little bandwidth for anything else. There's so many things to follow up on. I'm going back and forth to Brazil.
[1:28:44 - 1:28:51] ▶
We got to find this guy. Have you heard of Jonathan Weigand?
[1:28:51 - 1:28:54] ▶
Yes. I interviewed him in the nineties with, uh,
[1:28:55 - 1:28:57] ▶
Yeah. What am I talking about? You have an interview with Jonathan Weigand, which Stephen Greer edited down in a weird way.
[1:28:57 - 1:29:03] ▶
Yeah. I, I was actually there for that interview. And I, I went around the country with Stephen Greer just because I was like, oh, this guy says he's got all this access to people.
[1:29:03 - 1:29:11] ▶
And I wasn't even prepared for landing cases, a little loan crash cases back then. I mean, I heard about Roswell, but, but I met him and he was in his twenties and I was in my twenties and I was like, boy, this guy.
[1:29:12 - 1:29:23] ▶
And he was so paranoid at the time. Yeah. This is the nineties. Well, he was beat up. He was paranoid. And he was talking about like, it was one of the interviews that I was on Stephen Greer's anyway.
[1:29:23 - 1:29:34] ▶
He left an indelible impression on me because I saw behind the scenes, how terrified he was. He was debating on whether I didn't even come forward at the last possible minute. He talked about, I think either he was in the helicopter or they mentioned the fact they could take him up in the helicopter. It was a very big forest. They could just throw him out anywhere. He would never be seen or heard from again.
[1:29:34 - 1:29:53] ▶
Like we went right up to the craft. He went up to the craft. He said there was like a green liquid dripping out of it. He said there was an arm with, I think three or four fingers, like a, like a biological piece of an entity.
[1:29:53 - 1:30:06] ▶
Yeah. And I haven't, I haven't watched the whole interview since I operated the camera for that interview with, with Dr. Greer. And, um, but he left an indelible impression on me. Like I was like, shit.
[1:30:06 - 1:30:16] ▶
Well, cause he was a Marine, right? Yeah. And I, that's why I mentioned maybe the connection with this guy reaching out to you. Maybe there's some, you know,
[1:30:17 - 1:30:23] ▶
and the thing is, is like, I wasn't really prepared at the time to process like crash retrievals, anything beyond Roswell. I don't know. It's been a kind of a slow evolution for my personal, like my personal journey, you know, cause I'd heard about, I heard about that was my first case where I was like, oh, this guy's credible, man. I mean, I, I, I felt like he was credible.
[1:30:23 - 1:30:43] ▶
Seems super credible. This happened in the early nineties. He was a part of operation laser strike in Peru.
[1:30:43 - 1:30:48] ▶
And this egg shaped craft crashed into.
[1:30:48 - 1:30:51] ▶
Dripping from it. And he had telepathic communication with it.
[1:30:53 - 1:30:55] ▶
It was, it was buried for about a 45 degree angle and into the side of the, uh, into the, into the side of the, the, the, the cliff there, the, the, the ridge.
[1:30:55 - 1:31:03] ▶
It was dripping this syrup, like, uh, like syrup viscosity, this liquid. Uh, it was everywhere, all down everywhere when we went down there.
[1:31:04 - 1:31:13] ▶
Cause there were plants and everything. And it was, it was weird. It was a, a, a purplish green color.
[1:31:13 - 1:31:18] ▶
And it kind of like, like, like fluctuated. Like you couldn't really, when you, you'd look at it one time and then you look at it again and it would like, it's almost like, I don't know if it was like a lot of it was just changing.
[1:31:18 - 1:31:28] ▶
But every time you looked at it, you saw a different shade of, of greenish purple.
[1:31:28 - 1:31:32] ▶
And the being, the being was, uh, uh, basically sending him very similar signals that, that sent, uh, you know, uh, Venturelli, the, the neuroscientist and the, the, the daughters or the, the, the, sorry, the women.
[1:31:32 - 1:31:45] ▶
Um, it was saying, uh, help me, help me. And he started to walk towards the craft and then they, they apprehended him. They beat him up.
[1:31:45 - 1:31:54] ▶
People in Virginia are terrified that don't have evidence. Just their, just their, the fact that they witnessed the event or drove the creature or whatever aspect, you know, they, they, they experienced. They're terrified.
[1:31:54 - 1:32:10] ▶
Now, obviously the ultimate, you know, Holy grail of evidence that I'm bending over backwards to get my hands on and we keep getting close, uh, is film footage.
[1:32:10 - 1:32:25] ▶
Yeah. Now I know through experience that if I do get my hands on it and bloody well, we've gotten close, uh, I got something to worry about.
[1:32:25 - 1:32:34] ▶
Um, and I've thought about that many times, like, uh, could I upload it to a server? Could I send it to 10 different people?
[1:32:34 - 1:32:45] ▶
Like, how do I deal with that?
[1:32:46 - 1:32:47] ▶
That scenario. In fact, I had a really recent, I had a really vivid dream just recently. Um, really vivid. Like, in fact, when I was watching your show with Joe Rogan.
[1:32:48 - 1:32:57] ▶
He had, he had that dream.
[1:32:57 - 1:32:59] ▶
That really vivid, I had a really vivid dream where I was in, I was in Virginia and I was in a very crowded area. I think it was like a conference or we were having a screening or something and, um, lots of activity, lots of things. And some gentleman walked up to me and he handed me a thumb drive and he just slipped it in my pocket and he just looked at me and he kept walking. I was like, shit, I've got, this is, this has to be the footage. Right.
[1:32:59 - 1:33:21] ▶
But in my dream, I was going, what do I do? Like, and then I just felt this dude.
[1:33:21 - 1:33:26] ▶
Maybe that happens. I just got the chill.
[1:33:26 - 1:33:28] ▶
Now I have a target on my back. Like, what do I do? Like, I feel like I'd have a target on my back to get the hell out of there. I need to get it uploaded as quickly as possible. You know, go to a fancy hotel in Sao Paulo. I don't know. But anyway, if there's one thing that I've learned in this field, don't draw quick conclusions. Don't have that knee jerk reaction. Like suspend your judgment. Listen to the testimony.
[1:33:28 - 1:33:50] ▶
Tony, because it's so easy to go. That's impossible. That couldn't possibly have happened without the whole world knowing about it.
[1:33:50 - 1:33:57] ▶
Well, that's, that's people have an allergic reaction to everything that doesn't fit their kind of mental model of how the world works.
[1:33:57 - 1:34:05] ▶
But it should always, it should always be follow the evidence.
[1:34:06 - 1:34:09] ▶
It should, it should always be like, okay, what actually happened? And then there's beyond that, there's speculation as to what those things are.
[1:34:10 - 1:34:17] ▶
I often think even UFO researchers jump to the conclusion that it's a thing came from another planet when, you know, we don't know what these things are. That's why they use non-human intelligence, which on the one hand, sometimes seems sanitized PC and part of some controlled disclosure.
[1:34:17 - 1:34:34] ▶
Like UAP was supposed to UFO.
[1:34:34 - 1:34:35] ▶
Like UAP is supposed to UFO. And I like UFO better than UAP.
[1:34:35 - 1:34:38] ▶
You know, I think it's kind of better in old school, but like also I kind of like the NHI thing because it's, we don't know.
[1:34:38 - 1:34:45] ▶
We don't know. And you, you really just have to follow the evidence specifically. And you have great theorists, people like Mike Masters, you talk about them being beings from the future and maybe they are being, who knows.
[1:34:46 - 1:34:56] ▶
I'll be the first one to admit, I have absolutely no idea where they come from, what they want, why they're here.
[1:34:57 - 1:35:03] ▶
I can speculate. I can look at like, I don't think the government is sure of that either.
[1:35:03 - 1:35:08] ▶
But, you know, and I, okay, over the decades I've gone, you know, you look at what they do and that's pretty compelling, but then you look at what they don't do because all they'd have to do to, to reveal their presence openly would be to hover over the next Superbowl.
[1:35:09 - 1:35:28] ▶
Right. I mean, but they don't do that. They've done some pretty bold moves over the years.
[1:35:29 - 1:35:33] ▶
Like in the fifties, uh, 57, I think in, uh, Italy, some big game, they were.
[1:35:33 - 1:35:38] ▶
You know, they've done some pretty cool stuff. I mean, Phoenix, Arizona was pretty phenomenal. I was when everyone's under the night sky to get a glimpse of the hell Bob comment and that massive boomerang shaped craft and other crafts as well.
[1:35:38 - 1:35:50] ▶
Pretty bold, pretty bold stuff, you know, but then you look at Travis Walton and it's like, well, they clearly, if you're, if you're going to take, if you're going to take the account of seven witnesses, you know, at face value.
[1:35:50 - 1:36:02] ▶
They cared enough about him. He probably got in the way of the propulsion where they grabbed him, fixed him, and then deposited him in the area, in an area on the outskirts of town.
[1:36:03 - 1:36:12] ▶
That was close enough to like, he could get help, but not too close to reveal their, their presence. They cared about him.
[1:36:12 - 1:36:19] ▶
Had they dropped him off where they picked him up, right? He wouldn't have made it.
[1:36:19 - 1:36:22] ▶
It's a very remote area of the snowflake, Arizona, up in the mountains where that encounter occurred. So I thought about, like, I think about those things. I think about, you know, Socorro, like officer Lonnie Zamora, like face contact, you know, locked eyes with one of these beans.
[1:36:22 - 1:36:38] ▶
They got back in the craft and left. Like they didn't want to have contact. They didn't want to have communication much more than anything, whatever happened when he looked into the eyes of these creatures. So they're in on the secrecy as well.
[1:36:38 - 1:36:48] ▶
Right. I mean, you can draw that conclusion pretty definitively. I would say that many of these experiencers.
[1:36:50 - 1:36:54] ▶
Yes, exactly. If you take the, their accounts at face value that, but there, there is some level of contact. You'll mean, look at Rua. I mean, look at 1966 Westall, you know, thank you, Shane Ryan and James Rigney. Um, that case is compelling because, you know, once again, it was a school, 1030 in the morning, broad daylight, broad daylight, 300 plus witnesses standing out there watching this disc.
[1:36:54 - 1:37:19] ▶
Zip around in the sky with a little airplane falling around it. And then the thing lands. And then the kids run over and a handful of the kids see it sitting on the ground within 10 feet. That's a pretty bold move. I would say.
[1:37:19 - 1:37:30] ▶
You know, as far as sightings go.
[1:37:31 - 1:37:33] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. In plain sight.
[1:37:34 - 1:37:36] ▶
Anyway, it's, it's, it's a complex, it's so complex. And I feel, I feel almost like I know less today than I did 30 plus years ago. Although I know the phenomenon's real. I know there's a coverup.
[1:37:36 - 1:37:48] ▶
I know that the government, I say, no, I feel very comfortable. The government has got very definitive evidence about this, you know, bodies and craft and all that stuff. I just, I don't know what they know.
[1:37:48 - 1:38:01] ▶
In fact, I just asked somebody who probably, I'll remain nameless, but I was talking to somebody that I feel would be in a position to know. And I said, I was like, how many people have the bigger picture?
[1:38:01 - 1:38:14] ▶
And this individual was like, and I believe me, I trust this individual.
[1:38:15 - 1:38:19] ▶
And, um, 10, 10 have the bigger picture. That doesn't mean they have the full scope.
[1:38:20 - 1:38:26] ▶
But, you know, and I said, well, so like how many people know what you know? He goes, about 30.
[1:38:27 - 1:38:32] ▶
I was like, so 30 people know what you know? I was like, well, um, is it, I've heard that some people say it's a little scary.
[1:38:33 - 1:38:40] ▶
Is it scary? And, uh, the individual's like, yeah, I guess it could be a little scary. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[1:38:40 - 1:38:50] ▶
Yeah, it's a little scary. I know, I'm dying to know, right?
[1:38:50 - 1:38:53] ▶
You know, maybe with the information they have isn't correct. Well, who knows?
[1:38:54 - 1:38:57] ▶
And, um, I looked over and Leslie Keen was watching me have this conversation, you know, this is recently,
[1:38:58 - 1:39:05] ▶
and I see her looking at me across the room and she's like looking at me, she knows.
[1:39:05 - 1:39:10] ▶
She goes, I know that look on your face, James, when I see you locked, like you're, you really want to know something.
[1:39:10 - 1:39:15] ▶
She goes, I didn't want to interfere. And I'm like, just about, so I was like, well, what, well, um, it's like, well, what, what, what, uh, what's the intent?
[1:39:15 - 1:39:23] ▶
You know? And then somebody like butts in and, hey, you know, I've always wanted to meet you.
[1:39:24 - 1:39:31] ▶
And I'm sitting there like, oh, like, I don't know if I would have gotten it or not.
[1:39:31 - 1:39:35] ▶
But according to this individual, that, that it's not like, I didn't, I didn't have to fear for my safety kind of thing.
[1:39:35 - 1:39:42] ▶
And this could be all wrong. I don't know. But, but that the intent was a little scary.
[1:39:43 - 1:39:47] ▶
Well, what do I know? I don't, I don't know.
[1:39:50 - 1:39:52] ▶
Jesse, I don't know.
[1:39:53 - 1:39:54] ▶
I don't, I don't either, you know, and that's, that felt like the framing of the age of disclosure, like there, you know, that there was some sort of, um, you know, they were prepping the battle space and they care about our nuclear assets because it's just like, we would do ISR on a foreign adversary or whatever. You want to know what they're working with.
[1:39:54 - 1:40:13] ▶
I don't believe that. I don't, I don't. Um, and that's not to say, you know, if you're, you're a hammer, everything's supposed to look like a nail. And so if your job is American national security, like, you know, maybe that's the way you're supposed to orient yourself towards this.
[1:40:13 - 1:40:27] ▶
But like, I don't, I don't believe that. And I don't, I don't think that should be people's a priori biases going in, especially if that's their first touch point towards, you know, the phenomenon.
[1:40:27 - 1:40:38] ▶
That's, that's not my personal belief. And yeah, I mean, look, you just spoke to, you know, tell a ventrelli and, you know, this is the, this thing was like an angel and it was higher consciousness than ours. And it wanted us to know how special we are. And even that could be a form of deception.
[1:40:39 - 1:40:54] ▶
You know, it's always like, you know, you guys are doing harm via like, you know, these environmental catastrophes that could be some sort of deception where they're trying to clamp down and control us. Who knows? But I think, I think knowing that they're bad somehow. I mean, this, this thing's been, whatever's been going on, it's been going on for a long time. I think well before Roswell, well before Magenta in the thirties.
[1:40:54 - 1:41:18] ▶
Look at, uh, Wonders in the Sky by Jacques Vallée.
[1:41:18 - 1:41:21] ▶
That's a great example.
[1:41:21 - 1:41:22] ▶
Yeah. Or Passport to Magonia.
[1:41:22 - 1:41:24] ▶
Passport to Magonia. Exactly.
[1:41:24 - 1:41:26] ▶
So, so this has been going on for a long, long time. So I just, the idea that there's going to be some sort of rapid juncture or break in their orientation towards us, where they start to view us as some sort of big threat.
[1:41:26 - 1:41:39] ▶
You know, clear. I do think they do care about our nuclear stuff and are trying to enforce some sort of homeostasis of the earth, protect it.
[1:41:40 - 1:41:47] ▶
Perhaps it could affect their reality.
[1:41:48 - 1:41:49] ▶
Yeah. It could affect them somehow.
[1:41:49 - 1:41:51] ▶
But I, the, I mean, and you'll hear things like, oh, they activated the nuclear sequence.
[1:41:52 - 1:41:57] ▶
They turned it off after they activated it.
[1:41:58 - 1:42:00] ▶
You know, they always turn it off.
[1:42:00 - 1:42:01] ▶
In most cases, they deactivate it.
[1:42:02 - 1:42:03] ▶
In most cases, they deactivate it.
[1:42:03 - 1:42:05] ▶
I don't know if I buy that, but I'm open.
[1:42:06 - 1:42:09] ▶
The one line that I always remember.
[1:42:10 - 1:42:12] ▶
And I actually think I, I think I got this with Tim Coleman when I was doing Out of the Blue.
[1:42:12 - 1:42:16] ▶
I should watch Out of the Blue again.
[1:42:16 - 1:42:17] ▶
But, uh, Robert Salas, former launch control officer.
[1:42:19 - 1:42:22] ▶
I just love this line.
[1:42:22 - 1:42:23] ▶
And I'm sure a lot of you have heard it, but I was like, well, wow, it's amazing.
[1:42:23 - 1:42:29] ▶
These, you know, these craft we're seeing over the base and these nuclear installation during the peak of the Cold War, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[1:42:30 - 1:42:36] ▶
And he's like, yeah.
[1:42:37 - 1:42:38] ▶
And I could see exactly why he was a launch control officer.
[1:42:39 - 1:42:41] ▶
Because he was very measured and every word was carefully crafted.
[1:42:41 - 1:42:44] ▶
And he was just calm.
[1:42:45 - 1:42:46] ▶
You know the kind of guy that you want in your corner when all hell's breaking loose, right?
[1:42:46 - 1:42:49] ▶
Because he's going to be very methodical, measured, and, like, not panic and do the wrong.
[1:42:49 - 1:42:53] ▶
And he's like, yeah, you know, James, uh, message was, uh, pretty clear in my book.
[1:42:54 - 1:42:59] ▶
Um, it's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby.
[1:43:00 - 1:43:02] ▶
You know, I thought, wow, that's pretty cool.
[1:43:03 - 1:43:05] ▶
And, and, and Solace.
[1:43:08 - 1:43:09] ▶
It's kind of reassuring a little bit.
[1:43:09 - 1:43:10] ▶
Most of those guys who are in Bob Hastings' amazing book, UFOs and Nukes, say that that's what they, you know, they're like, we don't know.
[1:43:13 - 1:43:21] ▶
But we think that the message is, you know, you guys are playing with fire.
[1:43:21 - 1:43:25] ▶
And not, you know, we're trying to deactivate your tip of the sphere defenses against us.
[1:43:25 - 1:43:32] ▶
Not that we're trying to dominate.
[1:43:32 - 1:43:34] ▶
We're talking between September of 66 and March of 67, we lost 30 missiles to UFO activity.
[1:43:34 - 1:43:46] ▶
That's pretty, pretty insane.
[1:43:50 - 1:43:52] ▶
And I do think what that guy said to you as far as, I think, I think there is a tip of the spear as far as government knowledge on this stuff.
[1:43:52 - 1:44:00] ▶
But I think if, if, you know, maybe the biggest misconception of all is that they understand all of it.
[1:44:00 - 1:44:06] ▶
You know, I think they're learning from you just as much as you're learning from them.
[1:44:06 - 1:44:09] ▶
That was really funny.
[1:44:10 - 1:44:11] ▶
Well, I was at this event and, uh, and, and I was with Leslie and there were all these men in suits and she's like, Hey, there's, there's guys are from the agency.
[1:44:13 - 1:44:20] ▶
And, you know, I pretty much knew that, you know, they were very nice.
[1:44:20 - 1:44:24] ▶
And I, I didn't assume anything.
[1:44:24 - 1:44:26] ▶
I, I was like, Oh yeah, you know, and I've been investigating this case, you know, in Virginia.
[1:44:26 - 1:44:31] ▶
No, we know exactly what you've been doing.
[1:44:32 - 1:44:33] ▶
Not in a threatening way, but like we follow, Oh yeah.
[1:44:34 - 1:44:37] ▶
We're following this really closely.
[1:44:37 - 1:44:39] ▶
Like, you know, isn't that funny?
[1:44:40 - 1:44:42] ▶
No, I get, I get that all the time.
[1:44:43 - 1:44:44] ▶
And I've had people on the inside ask about you.
[1:44:45 - 1:44:48] ▶
Like, what do you think about, what do you think about this guy, Jesse Michaels?
[1:44:49 - 1:44:51] ▶
I was like, he's fucking amazing.
[1:44:52 - 1:44:53] ▶
That guy's putting the pieces of the puzzle together that I just like, Whoa, I'm taking notes on the sideline.
[1:44:54 - 1:44:59] ▶
That's why I mentioned you on Joe Rogan.
[1:44:59 - 1:45:01] ▶
Cause I was like, this guy earned it.
[1:45:01 - 1:45:03] ▶
That was the nicest plug.
[1:45:03 - 1:45:05] ▶
I think I will ever get.
[1:45:05 - 1:45:06] ▶
You earned that brother.
[1:45:06 - 1:45:08] ▶
That means so much to me.
[1:45:08 - 1:45:09] ▶
Well, I know it did.
[1:45:11 - 1:45:12] ▶
And I got emotional just watching it because it was, that was like 10 minutes or something.
[1:45:13 - 1:45:18] ▶
You were a rock star by the end of it.
[1:45:19 - 1:45:22] ▶
Cause Joe didn't know me then.
[1:45:22 - 1:45:23] ▶
And he was just like, okay, I guess you love this Jesse guy.
[1:45:23 - 1:45:26] ▶
Cause I've been watching you work and I'm like, this guy's operating on another level.
[1:45:28 - 1:45:32] ▶
Like you're just incredible the way you're putting the piece of the puzzle together and like doing deep dives and all these different aspects.
[1:45:32 - 1:45:39] ▶
I was like, Whoa, like this is incredible.
[1:45:39 - 1:45:41] ▶
Well, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants and, and, and there's no way, you know, like you were making movies while you were painting fences.
[1:45:41 - 1:45:50] ▶
Ditches, bending rebar, pouring cement, painting houses, parking cars.
[1:45:51 - 1:45:56] ▶
So like, I think it's really easy to post de-stigmatization of the whole topic.
[1:45:57 - 1:46:04] ▶
New York times article in 2017, all this stuff, you know, it's easy to make these YouTube videos.
[1:46:04 - 1:46:09] ▶
So, uh, you know, I, I, I, I think, you know, all of us who are doing that.
[1:46:09 - 1:46:14] ▶
Oh, you a huge debt.
[1:46:14 - 1:46:16] ▶
Oh, people like Jeremy Corbell and Ross Colthart, a huge debt.
[1:46:16 - 1:46:19] ▶
And so, yeah, no, it's a, thank you for saying that.
[1:46:19 - 1:46:23] ▶
But, uh, there are people like me too, like UAP.
[1:46:23 - 1:46:26] ▶
I get so many people asked me to do that.
[1:46:26 - 1:46:28] ▶
And I don't, I, and I, so many people, Oh, I heard you're going on.
[1:46:28 - 1:46:31] ▶
I always try to keep it secretive.
[1:46:31 - 1:46:32] ▶
I heard you're going on.
[1:46:32 - 1:46:33] ▶
Like, can you please, you know, it's like you earned it.
[1:46:33 - 1:46:36] ▶
It was like, when you called me and you said, thanks so much.
[1:46:36 - 1:46:38] ▶
I was like, dude, don't thank me, man.
[1:46:38 - 1:46:39] ▶
You earned that one.
[1:46:39 - 1:46:40] ▶
Like, yeah, I meant it.
[1:46:40 - 1:46:43] ▶
I re I really meant the, the world to me and, and, and Joe's become a good friend.
[1:46:43 - 1:46:47] ▶
When I saw him on your show, I was like, my God.
[1:46:48 - 1:46:50] ▶
That was the most real moment.
[1:46:51 - 1:46:53] ▶
Cause he, he's also, he respects you too.
[1:46:54 - 1:46:57] ▶
Like he's got tremendous respect for you.
[1:46:57 - 1:46:58] ▶
Maybe both of you guys should aim higher, but.
[1:47:01 - 1:47:03] ▶
It's always nice to like feel appreciated.
[1:47:03 - 1:47:07] ▶
Everybody wants to feel appreciated.
[1:47:07 - 1:47:08] ▶
And you know, one of the things I'd love to say right here
[1:47:08 - 1:47:10] ▶
and right now is like, you know, I really like to see more kindness
[1:47:10 - 1:47:17] ▶
between fellow, everyone really.
[1:47:17 - 1:47:20] ▶
Especially with the people you disagree with.
[1:47:21 - 1:47:22] ▶
You know, and less, less impugning people's motives and thinking
[1:47:23 - 1:47:28] ▶
that they're bad faith actors.
[1:47:28 - 1:47:29] ▶
Because, and there are all these people who I went into this world thinking,
[1:47:30 - 1:47:36] ▶
oh, but they're part of the insider crew or whatever.
[1:47:36 - 1:47:39] ▶
And then I'd meet them and I'd realize that like, yeah, maybe they know a few
[1:47:39 - 1:47:43] ▶
like kind of spooky-ish people or whatever, but they're really just trying to figure it out.
[1:47:43 - 1:47:47] ▶
And they're trying to get the information.
[1:47:47 - 1:47:48] ▶
You know, a good example of that is actually Tom DeLonge.
[1:47:48 - 1:47:51] ▶
Where like, you know, I, I, you know, recently.
[1:47:51 - 1:47:54] ▶
Remember when he went on Rogan?
[1:47:54 - 1:47:55] ▶
And Rogan was, it was too much.
[1:47:56 - 1:47:57] ▶
It was too much too soon.
[1:47:57 - 1:47:59] ▶
Cause he was probably right.
[1:48:00 - 1:48:01] ▶
He was right about a lot of stuff, I think.
[1:48:01 - 1:48:03] ▶
But he, he, it was, um, too much where he wasn't in a position to, he could like say a high
[1:48:03 - 1:48:09] ▶
level thing and then Rogan obviously wants to get low level.
[1:48:09 - 1:48:11] ▶
He wants to know all the details.
[1:48:11 - 1:48:13] ▶
And then he would say like, I can't really fully, you know, tell you, like, I'll tell
[1:48:13 - 1:48:17] ▶
you after the show sort of thing.
[1:48:17 - 1:48:19] ▶
I can't wait for the show to end.
[1:48:19 - 1:48:20] ▶
But, um, you know, I find him to be extremely.
[1:48:21 - 1:48:24] ▶
Earnest and cool and smart and have like some sort of working worldview around this thing
[1:48:24 - 1:48:29] ▶
that, uh, you know, seems to be pretty coherent.
[1:48:29 - 1:48:32] ▶
And, and I think a lot of his, you know, uh, engagement with people on the inside were
[1:48:32 - 1:48:38] ▶
his own, just really vigilante desire to like, get a lot of this stuff out and in any way
[1:48:38 - 1:48:43] ▶
And he has some interesting stories that I hope he tells at some point.
[1:48:44 - 1:48:47] ▶
I want to shift gears for a second.
[1:48:47 - 1:48:49] ▶
I want to talk about just, uh, a compendium of incredible historical interviews and interactions
[1:48:50 - 1:48:56] ▶
with some of the people who are the most important people in UFO history.
[1:48:56 - 1:49:00] ▶
Uh, I want to talk about Philip J Corso.
[1:49:00 - 1:49:03] ▶
You have maybe the last interview with him alive.
[1:49:04 - 1:49:07] ▶
Uh, he obviously wrote the day after Roswell.
[1:49:08 - 1:49:10] ▶
Um, he was, uh, head of the, the Pentagon's, uh, foreign technology desk.
[1:49:10 - 1:49:15] ▶
He was a witness to the creatures.
[1:49:16 - 1:49:17] ▶
Well, he says he was.
[1:49:18 - 1:49:19] ▶
But in the day after Roswell, that was also co-written by William J. Burns.
[1:49:20 - 1:49:23] ▶
And that might've been.
[1:49:24 - 1:49:25] ▶
But no, but I interviewed him and he told me about when he was taken in at Fort.
[1:49:25 - 1:49:30] ▶
So they started the journey in Roswell by truck.
[1:49:31 - 1:49:33] ▶
And some of the debris went to right pat on an airplane.
[1:49:34 - 1:49:38] ▶
But I think the bodies, according to Corso.
[1:49:38 - 1:49:39] ▶
There was a stop along the way.
[1:49:41 - 1:49:42] ▶
In any case, he said that he'd heard that there were some bodies and they went in and they
[1:49:42 - 1:49:46] ▶
opened up with the caskets and he saw the body from the Roswell.
[1:49:46 - 1:49:49] ▶
And he said, I'm going to go away.
[1:49:49 - 1:49:50] ▶
And then, in 1947, Corso was post duty officer in Fort Riley, Kansas.
[1:49:52 - 1:49:56] ▶
There, he claims to have seen a body transported from an air base in New Mexico.
[1:49:56 - 1:50:01] ▶
I went back and there was five crates there, like five or six.
[1:50:01 - 1:50:06] ▶
I think it was five.
[1:50:06 - 1:50:07] ▶
I lifted one up and here's this body there and floating in fluid.
[1:50:07 - 1:50:11] ▶
First I thought it was a child because it was small.
[1:50:11 - 1:50:16] ▶
Then I looked at this head and all.
[1:50:16 - 1:50:19] ▶
This was only happened in a matter of a second.
[1:50:19 - 1:50:20] ▶
Then I put the end back down and the head was different.
[1:50:20 - 1:50:27] ▶
The arms were spindly.
[1:50:27 - 1:50:28] ▶
So right at that moment, I figured, I don't know what this thing is.
[1:50:31 - 1:50:36] ▶
So like an intelligence business, I just better put it in the back of my head here and wait
[1:50:36 - 1:50:40] ▶
to maybe in the future, I get cooperation so I can evaluate what it is.
[1:50:40 - 1:50:44] ▶
And he said that in your interview?
[1:50:45 - 1:50:46] ▶
It was really funny actually, because when I went to the 50th anniversary of the Roswell
[1:50:47 - 1:50:52] ▶
case that took place in 1997 in Roswell, New Mexico, and it was a scene because we had
[1:50:52 - 1:50:58] ▶
members of Congress.
[1:50:58 - 1:51:01] ▶
There was Congressman Schiff, I think it was, who was saying like, I don't know what's going
[1:51:01 - 1:51:05] ▶
on here, but I've been getting stiff-armed by the Air Force.
[1:51:05 - 1:51:12] ▶
And I'm making inquiries.
[1:51:12 - 1:51:13] ▶
And why would you fly?
[1:51:13 - 1:51:15] ▶
A weather balloon under armed guard.
[1:51:15 - 1:51:18] ▶
And he noted that all of the Roswell stuff was deleted.
[1:51:18 - 1:51:21] ▶
All of the archival material in the government.
[1:51:22 - 1:51:23] ▶
And they sent him to an agency knowing that agency didn't have anything.
[1:51:23 - 1:51:25] ▶
And this was all happening.
[1:51:25 - 1:51:27] ▶
More people were coming forward.
[1:51:27 - 1:51:28] ▶
And then boom, this guy, you know, Philip Corso, who apparently, according to him, and
[1:51:28 - 1:51:34] ▶
he told me this directly from his mouth to my ears.
[1:51:34 - 1:51:38] ▶
He said that they rushed the book to print with William Burns because they wanted to ride
[1:51:38 - 1:51:44] ▶
the coattails of the 50th anniversary of Roswell and all the attention it was getting.
[1:51:44 - 1:51:48] ▶
And that there were a lot of discrepancies in the book that he was upset about.
[1:51:48 - 1:51:52] ▶
That, you know, this is what he told me.
[1:51:52 - 1:51:54] ▶
And I, when he came to Roswell, there was a flurry of activity in one of the hangars.
[1:51:54 - 1:52:00] ▶
And he was surrounded by all these news reporters.
[1:52:00 - 1:52:05] ▶
Oh my Lord, you should have seen it was a feeding frenzy.
[1:52:05 - 1:52:08] ▶
And I'm looking at him and I'm like, I gotta get an on camera statement.
[1:52:08 - 1:52:11] ▶
But I was a little kid with a camera.
[1:52:11 - 1:52:13] ▶
And I was like, you know what?
[1:52:13 - 1:52:14] ▶
I'm just gonna elbow my way in there.
[1:52:14 - 1:52:16] ▶
And I fought my way in there and I got my camera and I asked him a couple of questions
[1:52:17 - 1:52:20] ▶
I'll give it to you.
[1:52:21 - 1:52:22] ▶
And then the next day I found out where he was staying, what hotel he was in.
[1:52:23 - 1:52:27] ▶
And I just like, you know what?
[1:52:27 - 1:52:29] ▶
I went to the reception.
[1:52:29 - 1:52:30] ▶
I said, oh, I've got a meeting with Philip Corso.
[1:52:30 - 1:52:32] ▶
Can you, I just forgot what room he's in.
[1:52:32 - 1:52:34] ▶
And I went to the room and, oh, we were expecting you.
[1:52:35 - 1:52:40] ▶
Like, you know, and, oh, really?
[1:52:40 - 1:52:42] ▶
Like, I was like, so we sit down and we do an hour and a half long interview, whatever
[1:52:42 - 1:52:47] ▶
I don't know, hour, hour and a half.
[1:52:47 - 1:52:49] ▶
Got a lot of stuff out of him.
[1:52:49 - 1:52:50] ▶
Again, I'm happy to provide whatever you want.
[1:52:50 - 1:52:53] ▶
And, um, and then Michael Hessman arrives.
[1:52:53 - 1:52:57] ▶
And he was late and he was all sweaty and flustered.
[1:52:58 - 1:53:02] ▶
And apparently he had scheduled the interview that I got with Corso, but he showed up late.
[1:53:02 - 1:53:08] ▶
I was in the right place at the right time.
[1:53:09 - 1:53:11] ▶
Sit down and interview with Corso when Michael Hessman should have had it.
[1:53:11 - 1:53:14] ▶
And as it turns out, he was all flustered and he was late and he had no sound gear.
[1:53:14 - 1:53:17] ▶
So I gave him my sound gear.
[1:53:17 - 1:53:20] ▶
He said, I got about, I would say it's about an hour and a half.
[1:53:20 - 1:53:22] ▶
And he talked about why he's coming forward, because it was grandkids.
[1:53:22 - 1:53:25] ▶
And he's like, I'm old.
[1:53:25 - 1:53:26] ▶
I'm going to die soon.
[1:53:26 - 1:53:27] ▶
But, you know, I want the world to know if this thing happened.
[1:53:27 - 1:53:30] ▶
And I remember thinking, because there was a lot of controversy after he died and he was no
[1:53:32 - 1:53:36] ▶
longer in a position to kind of correct the record, I guess.
[1:53:36 - 1:53:40] ▶
I looked him in the eyes and I really did believe him.
[1:53:43 - 1:53:46] ▶
And I think I still believe him to this day.
[1:53:46 - 1:53:48] ▶
And I think he got a really bad rap and maybe it was too much too soon.
[1:53:48 - 1:53:52] ▶
But he told me I'm coming forward for my grandchildren.
[1:53:52 - 1:53:55] ▶
And he goes, I saw the bodies like he looked like a little kid, big head, big eye, you know,
[1:53:55 - 1:53:59] ▶
all the typical spindly arms, spindly legs.
[1:53:59 - 1:54:01] ▶
Didn't, I don't remember that part.
[1:54:02 - 1:54:04] ▶
Because you know, it's interesting.
[1:54:04 - 1:54:06] ▶
You say in, in Virginia, there were three, three fingers.
[1:54:06 - 1:54:09] ▶
And it was, uh, you know, on the paper, it's drawn, you know, the three fingers or
[1:54:10 - 1:54:15] ▶
whatever you recreate it.
[1:54:15 - 1:54:16] ▶
And, you know, I've seen beings in Peru that are skeletons with three fingers and the three
[1:54:16 - 1:54:22] ▶
toes and three, three fingers.
[1:54:22 - 1:54:24] ▶
And they carbon date to between 800 and 1700 years ago.
[1:54:24 - 1:54:28] ▶
And one of them has a tridactyl fetus inside of it.
[1:54:29 - 1:54:32] ▶
So there's inheritance between.
[1:54:32 - 1:54:33] ▶
What does tridactyl mean?
[1:54:33 - 1:54:34] ▶
Tridactyl means three fingers.
[1:54:34 - 1:54:36] ▶
So, so one of them has a, a, a, a fetus with three fingers and three toes in it.
[1:54:36 - 1:54:41] ▶
It's a, a fetus with a fetus.
[1:54:41 - 1:54:43] ▶
So the entire thing what they've done here is now, WC heart.
[1:54:46 - 1:54:47] ▶
associated with them and further testing is being done right now.
[1:54:47 - 1:54:51] ▶
So I'm like, okay, both of these things are happening in South America.
[1:54:51 - 1:54:54] ▶
Is that just a skeleton of what?
[1:54:54 - 1:54:57] ▶
And they have elongated heads, but they didn't undergo any head binding.
[1:54:57 - 1:55:01] ▶
They don't have any of the stress fractures involved in head binding.
[1:55:01 - 1:55:04] ▶
Virginia, Brazil, those things had three fingers and three toes.
[1:55:06 - 1:55:10] ▶
So the question is like, they saw footprints too in that case.
[1:55:10 - 1:55:13] ▶
And didn't Dave Grush say that some of the craft recovered were archeological digs or something like this?
[1:55:13 - 1:55:20] ▶
He said, uh, Bob Lazar said that.
[1:55:20 - 1:55:22] ▶
Bob Lazar said that.
[1:55:22 - 1:55:23] ▶
But David Grush said that the skeletons that I saw in Peru looked like things that he'd seen in classified settings.
[1:55:23 - 1:55:31] ▶
So that could be the same thing that happened in Virginia, that being, and we could have literal mummies of those beings for all we know.
[1:55:32 - 1:55:40] ▶
Bigelow, I remember I met with Bigelow.
[1:55:40 - 1:55:42] ▶
I got contacted by him in 2009 and I don't think I was ready for what he told me at the time.
[1:55:42 - 1:55:48] ▶
And then quite honestly, I don't know if I'm still not ready.
[1:55:48 - 1:55:50] ▶
Well, it was funny actually, because he talked about the complexities of disclosure.
[1:55:51 - 1:55:55] ▶
He reached out to me through his secretary.
[1:55:55 - 1:55:57] ▶
I still have the email.
[1:55:57 - 1:55:59] ▶
And they said, uh, uh, Mr. Bigelow wants to congratulate you on a job well done for, I know what I saw.
[1:55:59 - 1:56:05] ▶
And I thought, that's cool.
[1:56:05 - 1:56:07] ▶
I looked up Bigelow and I kind of knew who, you know, I was like, oh, wow.
[1:56:07 - 1:56:11] ▶
Would Mr. Bigelow like to get together?
[1:56:11 - 1:56:13] ▶
You know, yes, he would actually.
[1:56:13 - 1:56:14] ▶
And so we arranged a time where I would go to his house and this is like 2009, probably.
[1:56:14 - 1:56:21] ▶
And, uh, we had lunch together at his house in Las Vegas.
[1:56:21 - 1:56:26] ▶
And he, he starts telling me about the complexities of disclosure.
[1:56:26 - 1:56:29] ▶
Do you understand kid?
[1:56:29 - 1:56:30] ▶
Like, you know, the implications and they're so vast impacts on organized religion and this and that.
[1:56:30 - 1:56:36] ▶
And I, I honestly, I hadn't really thought of the complexities of disclosure and I was like, yeah, cool.
[1:56:36 - 1:56:42] ▶
You know, and he's talking about that.
[1:56:42 - 1:56:43] ▶
And then he goes, he goes, uh, yeah.
[1:56:43 - 1:56:45] ▶
And they're walking among us.
[1:56:45 - 1:56:48] ▶
And he goes, what do you mean?
[1:56:50 - 1:56:53] ▶
You know, he goes, I mean exactly that.
[1:56:53 - 1:56:56] ▶
They're, they're walking among us.
[1:56:56 - 1:56:58] ▶
I think I took that and I put it in the back of my head.
[1:57:00 - 1:57:02] ▶
Cause I was like, you know what?
[1:57:02 - 1:57:03] ▶
Like you gotta be kidding me.
[1:57:04 - 1:57:05] ▶
You know, at the time, I, I don't know.
[1:57:05 - 1:57:07] ▶
I took it with a grain of salt.
[1:57:07 - 1:57:08] ▶
I mean, it would be pretty funny if they were, because, you know, here we are looking out across the cosmos for any sign of intelligent life, you know, with the various NASA programs, you know, looking, uh, for water or whatever, oxygen or atmosphere, you know, all these various planets.
[1:57:13 - 1:57:31] ▶
And then it would be funny if they were like right here, you know, and maybe they are, you know, and maybe they are.
[1:57:31 - 1:57:36] ▶
Well, they, the, Hal Puthoff always talks about the UFOs engaging in what he calls signature management, where they control what they sort of look like or appear to be an optical and radar and that sort of thing.
[1:57:38 - 1:57:50] ▶
And so maybe that's happening with the beings themselves.
[1:57:50 - 1:57:54] ▶
One thing that I've learned over the decades is suspend judgment, man.
[1:57:55 - 1:58:02] ▶
At this point, anything's possible.
[1:58:02 - 1:58:04] ▶
I don't know what's going on.
[1:58:04 - 1:58:06] ▶
I would love to know what's going on.
[1:58:06 - 1:58:08] ▶
And I, and I want you guys to understand, like, I don't put something out into the public.
[1:58:09 - 1:58:16] ▶
If I don't believe it's highly likely that it happened.
[1:58:16 - 1:58:19] ▶
I'm not out there just trying to, I really don't.
[1:58:19 - 1:58:21] ▶
I care about integrity.
[1:58:21 - 1:58:22] ▶
I care about perception.
[1:58:22 - 1:58:23] ▶
I, you're the opposite of a grif, a grifter doesn't start valeting cars and then makes the thing on the side.
[1:58:23 - 1:58:31] ▶
Cause he's so passionate about it.
[1:58:31 - 1:58:32] ▶
What are you talking about?
[1:58:32 - 1:58:33] ▶
What are you talking about?
[1:58:33 - 1:58:34] ▶
When there is no market for the thing in the early 2000s.
[1:58:35 - 1:58:37] ▶
And not like that, but it's like, once I pay back my investors, I always put my films on free platforms.
[1:58:37 - 1:58:41] ▶
No, you just, you just told me before you started rolling, your dream is to buy the phenomenon back.
[1:58:42 - 1:58:46] ▶
So how are you a grifter?
[1:58:47 - 1:58:48] ▶
You want to buy your own footage back.
[1:58:48 - 1:58:51] ▶
Cause that feels more authentic.
[1:58:51 - 1:58:52] ▶
So yeah, that's just ridiculous.
[1:58:55 - 1:58:56] ▶
No, but it is these things.
[1:58:56 - 1:58:58] ▶
Same with the, with this thing in Peru, with these mummies, like sometimes when the thing is staring you in the face, you think it's too good to be true.
[1:58:58 - 1:59:06] ▶
But maybe, maybe it's just, you know, Jim Semivan, who's very high up at the CIA.
[1:59:06 - 1:59:10] ▶
He said, said something.
[1:59:10 - 1:59:11] ▶
He says like most of this stuff is a personal experience.
[1:59:11 - 1:59:14] ▶
All this stuff is just hidden in plain sight.
[1:59:15 - 1:59:17] ▶
And that's the conclusion that I've come to.
[1:59:17 - 1:59:20] ▶
Uh, again, despite my.
[1:59:20 - 1:59:21] ▶
So funny, wouldn't it?
[1:59:21 - 1:59:22] ▶
It's just, it's just there.
[1:59:25 - 1:59:26] ▶
I, I was at the airport a couple of years ago and I was flying to Arizona for a conference or something.
[1:59:27 - 1:59:32] ▶
And I, I get up to the gate and I was like, shit, I left my sunglasses in the car.
[1:59:32 - 1:59:37] ▶
It's like, I can't leave without my sunglasses.
[1:59:37 - 1:59:39] ▶
Like, ah, I had to go back to the security.
[1:59:39 - 1:59:41] ▶
I got all the way out of the car.
[1:59:41 - 1:59:42] ▶
Ah, my sunglasses aren't there.
[1:59:42 - 1:59:43] ▶
I was like, crap, guess where they were?
[1:59:43 - 1:59:45] ▶
They were right there.
[1:59:48 - 1:59:50] ▶
Sometimes it's just right staring.
[1:59:51 - 1:59:52] ▶
But what, what is, did you, did you probe Bigelow more and you say, what did you, you know, what'd you mean exactly by.
[1:59:53 - 1:59:58] ▶
I talked about the implications.
[1:59:58 - 1:59:59] ▶
They're walking among us.
[1:59:59 - 2:00:00] ▶
Well, I did talk to him about the implications of, of disclosure, the complications of disclosure a little bit, but in terms of them walking among us, I wasn't ready for it.
[2:00:00 - 2:00:08] ▶
I was like, you know, who's this guy?
[2:00:09 - 2:00:11] ▶
I, I, I, I couldn't dismiss it entirely just because of his position.
[2:00:12 - 2:00:18] ▶
He's probably invested more money in research with NIDS and OSAP and ATIP and all the various different people that he's worked with.
[2:00:18 - 2:00:25] ▶
Um, so I couldn't like, I didn't categorically dismiss it, but I kind of put it, I compartmentalize it, put it the back of my head.
[2:00:25 - 2:00:31] ▶
And, but as time went by and I learned more about the phenomenon, I started thinking, shit, man, maybe he's right.
[2:00:31 - 2:00:40] ▶
Maybe they are right here, you know, walking among us.
[2:00:40 - 2:00:43] ▶
Wouldn't that be, wouldn't that be funny?
[2:00:43 - 2:00:45] ▶
You know, it's like, you know, it's right under our noses.
[2:00:45 - 2:00:49] ▶
There it is in plain sight.
[2:00:49 - 2:00:51] ▶
And that seems to make more sense to me because a lot of people go, you know, and I get people go, oh, well, you're just, you know, you're concluding, you know, the texture of terrestrial.
[2:00:51 - 2:01:00] ▶
I was like, no, actually, I didn't say that.
[2:01:00 - 2:01:02] ▶
And I've never said that.
[2:01:02 - 2:01:03] ▶
I really don't know what they are.
[2:01:03 - 2:01:04] ▶
Well, with the guy who's, uh, transporting this being in this, you know, in the military, uh, cargo driver or whatever, he goes, I'll show you the email.
[2:01:04 - 2:01:13] ▶
I want to see that email.
[2:01:13 - 2:01:15] ▶
Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.
[2:01:15 - 2:01:16] ▶
But he says, uh, he says it was, you know, it was told to him, like there was somebody who was questioning him. What'd you see?
[2:01:16 - 2:01:22] ▶
And he says, I don't know what I saw. You know, it was like a burnt human being or something.
[2:01:23 - 2:01:26] ▶
Cause he was trying to be coy.
[2:01:26 - 2:01:27] ▶
It was super natural.
[2:01:31 - 2:01:32] ▶
And he said, I don't know if he thought I was trying to deceive him, you know, like he knows, but he just doesn't want to talk about it.
[2:01:32 - 2:01:49] ▶
It was then that he stated that what I had witnessed was a particular thing.
[2:01:49 - 2:02:08] ▶
Yeah. Super natural.
[2:02:10 - 2:02:15] ▶
Super natural. Yeah.
[2:02:15 - 2:02:17] ▶
I was very funny in the edit room cause I edit my own movies and that line just really stuck with me. And I really wanted it to, I really wanted it to, to hit with the audience.
[2:02:17 - 2:02:28] ▶
And so I, I had, I did all the, uh, subtitles in the film and I did it at my pacing cause I'm a slow reader. And I always frustrates me when I'm watching a film with subtitles, when they come on too fast, I'm like, nah, you're going too fast. Slow down.
[2:02:28 - 2:02:41] ▶
So I tried to like to one line whenever I could two lines, most primarily one line.
[2:02:41 - 2:02:46] ▶
And when it came to super, cause he goes, this is military X talking about with the general meeting that he had with the general after he'd driven this creature from various places, he managed us ultimately campaign us.
[2:02:46 - 2:02:58] ▶
And he's like, uh, he goes, no, no, that's not what you saw. What you saw was super natural.
[2:02:58 - 2:03:05] ▶
And so I put super and then a beat later natural, as he said it on the text.
[2:03:05 - 2:03:10] ▶
And then the other guy that I worked with the Boris, he changed it to have them both come on at the same time. And I went, no, no, no, no, no, no, Boris. That was intentional. I want that word. Cause it's memorable, right?
[2:03:11 - 2:03:21] ▶
It's a, it's a cool, it's a moment in the movie. Super natural.
[2:03:22 - 2:03:25] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like a shampoo commercial or something.
[2:03:25 - 2:03:29] ▶
Right. Yeah, exactly.
[2:03:29 - 2:03:30] ▶
Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's sort of remarkable and, and we, we don't know, you know, what these beings are and then, you know, even on the, on the, I keep going back to these Peruvian mummies, but they had these,
[2:03:30 - 2:03:40] ▶
um, like osmium and cadmium implants, like on their heads. And, you know, I was just, I was playing around. I was asking cheap chat GPT, you know, what these things might be adaptive for.
[2:03:40 - 2:03:52] ▶
And it's like, maybe they could create this local electromagnetic field, which would define how the beings are perceived or like modulate, you know, in other words affect the environment around them.
[2:03:52 - 2:04:02] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Who knows?
[2:04:02 - 2:04:06] ▶
I remember. What's his name? Uh, I'll think of it a second. He was a NASA employee. He analyzed photographs. Maccabee. Was it something Maccabee? Bruce Maccabee.
[2:04:06 - 2:04:20] ▶
Yeah. Bruce Maccabee. He wrote FBI, UFOs and the FBI or something.
[2:04:20 - 2:04:24] ▶
Yeah, but he primarily did photographic analysis. And he said to me years ago, cause I was like, why are all the pictures blurry? Like, you know, and people criticize that all the time. And he was like, if they're not blurry and they have a defined clear edge, this is 20 plus years ago. He goes, that's when you should be suspicious.
[2:04:24 - 2:04:43] ▶
Because there's some kind of weird field around the propulsion we feel that causes a slight distortion. And so you'll always get slightly fuzzy edges and all that stuff. I was like, wow.
[2:04:43 - 2:04:55] ▶
Wow. That's interesting. You know, and that was coming from a guy, PhD, like, you know, you have these lensing effects from the gravitational bubble.
[2:04:56 - 2:05:04] ▶
Yeah. It was explained really well in age of disclosure, which I thought, you know, I mean, red shifts or blue shifts.
[2:05:04 - 2:05:10] ▶
Yeah. And, uh, you know, tip my hat to, to Dan Farah and Lou Elizondo. That was an exquisite accomplishment. Everyone can criticize how a film's put together, but trust me as a filmmaker myself, uh, I think that's going to help move the needle.
[2:05:10 - 2:05:25] ▶
I was very impressed, you know, people like Rubio and James Clapper and all coming forward and putting their necks out.
[2:05:26 - 2:05:31] ▶
So, um, I'm, I'm excited about the times. And I feel like Moment of Contact, New Revelations of Alien Encounters, I don't know, the timing seems to be perfect because, like, Dan Farah's film, Age of Disclosure with Lou Elizondo, is kind of everything that our film isn't.
[2:05:32 - 2:05:47] ▶
And our film is everything that their film isn't, right? Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . So you make these extraordinary claims, you know, and then you're, we're providing an extraordinary case.
[2:05:47 - 2:05:56] ▶
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[2:05:56 - 2:05:57] ▶
Because this is an example.
[2:05:57 - 2:05:58] ▶
One's top down and one's bottoms up.
[2:05:58 - 2:06:00] ▶
Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, dude.
[2:06:00 - 2:06:01] ▶
Like, so I think that there, it's a really good, I think the timing and the pressure that I felt to get, because I didn't know when Age of Disclosure was going to come out. I'd heard it, kept hearing it was delayed, whatever reasons.
[2:06:01 - 2:06:10] ▶
And so the fact that it came out and then like, you know, six weeks later, we're dropping this one, I think the timing's gonna be perfect.
[2:06:10 - 2:06:16] ▶
Yeah. I think the stars are starting to align and I think that we can really get some traction in terms of like, and I think, you know, regardless of what you think about the current administration, I think if ever there was a time for full disclosure, I think it's more likely to happen with him than anybody else.
[2:06:16 - 2:06:30] ▶
Yeah, no, I agree. He's more likely to do something out of left field.
[2:06:30 - 2:06:36] ▶
Rip the bandaid off. Yeah, yeah.
[2:06:36 - 2:06:37] ▶
Yeah, because by the administration, I was so disappointed, like rush came out during the Biden administration. It's like, you're not even to address it.
[2:06:37 - 2:06:45] ▶
Well, but the Biden administration for the problem with the Biden administration. Okay. Right now, maybe, you know, you could argue that Trump has too much agency or something with Biden. He wasn't. It was a headless administration.
[2:06:45 - 2:06:59] ▶
It was literally, the whole thing was just a bureaucracy because you have, you have a guy who's had dementia. Yeah. Who? And so then you're like, who's actually running? Oh, is it Jake Sullivan? Maybe his chief of staff? And then like, what's he up to? We didn't elect him. Like, what's the deal? So the most dismissive.
[2:06:59 - 2:07:16] ▶
Nothing's gonna get done in that context.
[2:07:16 - 2:07:18] ▶
I felt it was the most dismissive administration in history on the phenomenon.
[2:07:18 - 2:07:22] ▶
On everything. On everything. Yeah.
[2:07:22 - 2:07:24] ▶
If you believe that America is headed in the right direction, then that was the right admin. This, you got a lot of volatility maybe, but it's like some sort of Hail Mary where you might get some movement or something.
[2:07:24 - 2:07:36] ▶
But I just feel like it's going to happen in this administration more than any other. I really do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, and we're going to be doing. Well, you have all these truth and transparency initiatives. I mean, one interesting thread is like Tulsi and Clapper kind of hate each other. I don't know if you know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Tulsi's a current DNI and like they're going after Clapper because. She seems pretty amazing. I love Tulsi. Yeah. She seems like amazing. She seems. I'm a fan. I think she's great. I think she's, she's an honest, earnest actor. I think she's very brave.
[2:07:36 - 2:08:06] ▶
And, um, yeah, I, I, I, you know, pray for her. It takes unconventional to get this stuff done. It does. So, um, but she doesn't like Clapper, um, because she says that Clapper was involved in Russiagate and this whole kind of, you know, um, planting stuff on Trump's calling him a Russian asset or whatever. So I guess what I would say to the current DNI is like, okay, like, do you want like Clapper or any of these guys eating your lunch on this very important issue? Or do you want to get in front of the DNI?
[2:08:06 - 2:08:36] ▶
Yeah. Good idea. Why would you want these guys to get credit when you can get the credit?
[2:08:36 - 2:08:41] ▶
You can get the credit. Exactly.
[2:08:41 - 2:08:42] ▶
I mean, honestly, you would go down. Hey, look, I interviewed Senator Harry Reid.
[2:08:42 - 2:08:48] ▶
And love the guy. I hate him. Whatever. He was, he spearheaded something that was incredible. Right.
[2:08:48 - 2:08:52] ▶
And he stood up for Lou Elizondo and I'm very grateful for that. But I asked him this question.
[2:08:53 - 2:08:58] ▶
I recently unearthed it because I didn't put it in the phenomenon. And I said, like, what would you tell
[2:08:58 - 2:09:03] ▶
whatever president it was, what would you tell the president of the United States about this topic?
[2:09:03 - 2:09:08] ▶
And he just goes, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to take it on head on. Like, don't be afraid to admit
[2:09:09 - 2:09:15] ▶
that this stuff is real. Like, I mean, I think that's really important because everyone that I've
[2:09:15 - 2:09:20] ▶
interviewed, including the governor, including senators and members of Congress, it was the
[2:09:20 - 2:09:25] ▶
best thing to their career. They thought it was going to be the opposite effect. Right. But in
[2:09:25 - 2:09:29] ▶
actuality, and I even interviewed the former governor of New Mexico, who was a Democrat,
[2:09:29 - 2:09:33] ▶
Richardson. And he goes, you know, quite honestly, James, one of the few things that I ever did in my
[2:09:34 - 2:09:39] ▶
political career was looking into the UFO phenomenon, particularly the Roswell crash. He goes,
[2:09:39 - 2:09:44] ▶
you wouldn't believe the level of support I had from both parties.
[2:09:44 - 2:09:47] ▶
No, it's, it's, you look at Luna. We're the only bipartisan things.
[2:09:47 - 2:09:50] ▶
You look at Luna, Burchette, Burleson, like all these guys. Yeah.
[2:09:51 - 2:09:56] ▶
Are, it's become their like number one issue and they are going on podcast tours.
[2:09:56 - 2:10:01] ▶
They're talking about it constantly. United.
[2:10:01 - 2:10:03] ▶
Yeah. And they're all pumped. Yeah. So Democrats and Republicans working together
[2:10:04 - 2:10:07] ▶
is so beautiful to see. Thank God they're working for the people.
[2:10:07 - 2:10:10] ▶
Yeah. So, but it, it's clearly good for their career. It's not bad for their career.
[2:10:11 - 2:10:15] ▶
Exactly right. Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah. No, they're getting notoriety and people
[2:10:15 - 2:10:19] ▶
want the truth. Yeah, they do. And they should get it. Yeah.
[2:10:19 - 2:10:21] ▶
Like, I don't care, man. If it's a little scary, whatever. Yeah.
[2:10:21 - 2:10:24] ▶
Don't hide, don't treat us like children. Don't hide the truth. Like it's so like you,
[2:10:24 - 2:10:29] ▶
you know, so much and I know what I know, whatever.
[2:10:30 - 2:10:33] ▶
You know more than me. Well, not really, but, but you know what I know, I know. Right. Cause
[2:10:33 - 2:10:38] ▶
I went out, you know, but, um, we, regardless of it, I think that every man, woman and child
[2:10:38 - 2:10:46] ▶
has a right to know what the bigger picture is. Stop treating us like children. Like it
[2:10:46 - 2:10:52] ▶
frustrates me to no end when you see like statements made, you know, it's started to
[2:10:52 - 2:10:58] ▶
be less. So these days, Satan made, they're so clearly like clash with reality. Like the
[2:10:58 - 2:11:10] ▶
crash test dummies in Roswell. If you've looked in a modicum of research into the Roswell case,
[2:11:10 - 2:11:14] ▶
you'd be like, you'd laugh that right out of the room. Right. Yeah. Oh, there's bluish dummies.
[2:11:14 - 2:11:18] ▶
And that happened like way later. And then project mogul, like project mogul is like later
[2:11:18 - 2:11:23] ▶
and they're same balloons, but they're stringed together to make a bigger balloon. Like if you
[2:11:23 - 2:11:27] ▶
look at all the facts, that's just, it's like a slap in the face. Anybody who knows anything
[2:11:27 - 2:11:31] ▶
about it, you know, it's like, and it's just, I've had it. Like, could you just please, can we
[2:11:31 - 2:11:37] ▶
just have some transparency on this? Like, that's one of the reasons why I'm working so hard. Like,
[2:11:37 - 2:11:42] ▶
you know, I'm pushing now harder than ever. Like I've cranked out since 2020, I put out
[2:11:42 - 2:11:48] ▶
the phenomenon. Then I put out moment of contact. Then I put out the program. Now I put out a new
[2:11:48 - 2:11:53] ▶
version moment of contact, which covering all the congressional hearings really quickly you saw.
[2:11:53 - 2:11:57] ▶
And I'm doing something else that I'll be cranking that out in under a year because I feel like now
[2:11:58 - 2:12:03] ▶
is not the time to let up as much as I want to go spend more time with my family. And I do believe
[2:12:03 - 2:12:07] ▶
me, it's very painful, like to be away from my son and I'm missing so many things, but I feel like
[2:12:07 - 2:12:13] ▶
my, my whole career has kind of culminated to this moment right now. And I feel like we all as a
[2:12:13 - 2:12:19] ▶
community need to work together, need to be kinder to one, each other, need to respect one, each other,
[2:12:19 - 2:12:24] ▶
particularly with those that we disagree with. I really mean that like, cause we're stronger
[2:12:24 - 2:12:28] ▶
together. Yeah. Speak, speak, speaking of people who did not hold back on the truth. Uh, Paula 14
[2:12:28 - 2:12:35] ▶
astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, you met him as well, right? Yes, I did. And he came back and he was just
[2:12:35 - 2:12:41] ▶
from his moon, you know, excursions and he was just completely adamant that, uh, alien life is
[2:12:41 - 2:12:49] ▶
real. I think he was in touch with various components of the government, maybe kind of
[2:12:49 - 2:12:54] ▶
legacy crash retrieval programs himself. Yes. He had that, he had that memo at his house.
[2:12:54 - 2:12:59] ▶
Yeah. Tell me about this memo. Well, it's the, uh, the, oh, you're talking about the Wilson
[2:12:59 - 2:13:03] ▶
Davis. Yeah. You know, of course. Yeah. I covered that. Yeah. Which is strange that he even had
[2:13:03 - 2:13:08] ▶
that memo, which is, which is documenting Eric Davis in the parking lot, talking to Admiral
[2:13:08 - 2:13:12] ▶
Thomas J. Wilson, who's head of J2 joint chiefs should be in charge of all military technology
[2:13:12 - 2:13:18] ▶
in the government at the time. And he's still late nineties. He's still around.
[2:13:18 - 2:13:21] ▶
You know, he was, there were some people that wanted to subpoena him into, into a skiff.
[2:13:21 - 2:13:25] ▶
Yeah. And he goes, and I talked to the people that subpoenaed him.
[2:13:25 - 2:13:28] ▶
Yeah. And they said, he goes, he goes, sure. I'll, I'll come into the skiff, but I'm going to
[2:13:28 - 2:13:32] ▶
tell you the same thing I'm telling you right here that I'm going to tell you in the skiff.
[2:13:32 - 2:13:35] ▶
So if you want to waste my time and yours, let's go.
[2:13:35 - 2:13:39] ▶
That's crazy. Isn't that funny?
[2:13:39 - 2:13:40] ▶
So in that document you have him.
[2:13:41 - 2:13:43] ▶
But he said he would deny it.
[2:13:43 - 2:13:44] ▶
Yeah. He's like, if this ever comes out, I'll deny, deny, deny.
[2:13:44 - 2:13:48] ▶
Yeah. But let me tell you something interesting about Edgar, Edgar Mitchell. And I was really
[2:13:48 - 2:13:51] ▶
close. I mean, I was, I would call him all the time for advice and he participated. I was
[2:13:51 - 2:13:56] ▶
interviewing him in my twenties. I went to his house and in the middle of the interview,
[2:13:56 - 2:14:00] ▶
and I was also friends with Buzz Aldrin's sister, Faye Ann Potter, very close. I used to
[2:14:01 - 2:14:05] ▶
go to her house. I used to look at all the behind the scenes photographs and the moon
[2:14:05 - 2:14:08] ▶
landings and all the stuff. And she would tell, she said that the NASA authorities said that
[2:14:08 - 2:14:13] ▶
they were all given some kind of pill that they would die if anything happened. And also
[2:14:13 - 2:14:18] ▶
like, wait, wait, they would be given a pill where they gave a pill, like where they have
[2:14:18 - 2:14:21] ▶
to kill themselves. If they missed the, if they missed the earth, sorry, if they missed
[2:14:21 - 2:14:24] ▶
the moon and they shot off into the space, they were going to, they would have something
[2:14:24 - 2:14:28] ▶
that they could die. Yeah. They could, in other words, they would have to have a slow
[2:14:28 - 2:14:30] ▶
death. They could kill us. That's what she told me, Faye Ann Potter.
[2:14:30 - 2:14:33] ▶
Whoa. She showed me all these pictures and that, and that if, if, if, if, if Neil Armstrong
[2:14:33 - 2:14:39] ▶
came out and anything happened to him, Buzz was not supposed to play the hero. He was supposed
[2:14:39 - 2:14:45] ▶
to leave his ass on the moon and get back, meet up with, was it Collins that they-
[2:14:45 - 2:14:49] ▶
Michael J. Collins. Michael J. Collins. Yeah. And so she, she told me that, she also told
[2:14:49 - 2:14:54] ▶
me that he had some UFO encounter on the way to the moon.
[2:14:54 - 2:14:56] ▶
Oh. Oh. I know. Yeah. And one of my biggest regrets was, well, I have a lot of them, but.
[2:14:57 - 2:15:02] ▶
You told that story on the last podcast.
[2:15:02 - 2:15:04] ▶
Yeah. I was at Faye Ann Potter. Never, I never got her on camera talking about her, her brother.
[2:15:04 - 2:15:09] ▶
But you chased Buzz Aldrin down. I did chase Buzz Aldrin.
[2:15:09 - 2:15:11] ▶
And you said, I want to interview you about UFOs. And then he goes, what did my, what would
[2:15:11 - 2:15:15] ▶
my testimony do? When I was watching Joe Rogan talk about, and I respect his opinion, that's
[2:15:15 - 2:15:20] ▶
totally fine, but I was personally friends with the number of people that landed on the moon
[2:15:20 - 2:15:24] ▶
and I got great detail. And could I have been deceived? Sure. I could have been, but I think
[2:15:24 - 2:15:28] ▶
about like when Joe's like, yeah, look at the three of them sitting right after they landed on
[2:15:28 - 2:15:33] ▶
the moon. I was thinking, well, that's the look on their faces of people that maybe they had a UFO
[2:15:33 - 2:15:37] ▶
encounter on the way to the moon, like Faye Ann Potter had. Yeah. That's the third choice.
[2:15:37 - 2:15:41] ▶
And they had to shut up about it. That's the third option.
[2:15:41 - 2:15:43] ▶
Yeah. Because you have, you know, you know, Beatrice Villoreal.
[2:15:43 - 2:15:46] ▶
No. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You interviewed her not too long ago.
[2:15:46 - 2:15:49] ▶
Yeah. She's amazing. She spotted thousands, 10,000 plus transients every year from in the
[2:15:49 - 2:15:56] ▶
Palmar Observatory, which is the most prominent observatory. And this was between 1949 and 1957.
[2:15:56 - 2:16:01] ▶
These things aren't sun streaks. They're not, you know, asteroids, comets, meteors, obviously
[2:16:01 - 2:16:07] ▶
they're, they're not satellites because they're pre Sputnik in 1957. And they look like mirror,
[2:16:07 - 2:16:14] ▶
like light reflecting objects, which are what all the CIA documents describe UFOs as in the late
[2:16:14 - 2:16:20] ▶
forties and early fifties. And they're in geosynchronous orbit. And so you, you, yeah.
[2:16:20 - 2:16:26] ▶
And so you have to, and they, and they sort of pop up. Yeah. And so you wonder when you leave,
[2:16:26 - 2:16:32] ▶
you know, the, the, the Van Allen belt, you know, when you leave the protective magnetosphere of the
[2:16:32 - 2:16:37] ▶
earth, do you just encounter tons and tons of UFOs? And if you look at Bluegill triple prime,
[2:16:37 - 2:16:42] ▶
which was the first time we cut a hole in the magnetosphere of the earth with the,
[2:16:42 - 2:16:47] ▶
you know, uh, we, we were trying to see if we could puncture the Van Allen belt,
[2:16:47 - 2:16:51] ▶
guess what came out? UFO material. And Harold Malmgren, this presidential advisor.
[2:16:51 - 2:16:56] ▶
I'm so glad you got to him. Isn't that wild? And he said he was holding the pieces,
[2:16:56 - 2:17:00] ▶
the pieces of the UFO. It was an, it was an accidental shoot down.
[2:17:00 - 2:17:03] ▶
He reached for some stuff sitting on his desk. These are things that have come down.
[2:17:04 - 2:17:11] ▶
But debris or images? Debris. Wow.
[2:17:11 - 2:17:16] ▶
No, he said Hamlet. Wow. That's amazing.
[2:17:17 - 2:17:20] ▶
So are we just surrounded by UFOs? And, and maybe that's the secret. Maybe the,
[2:17:21 - 2:17:27] ▶
you know, the, the Neil Armstrong cryptic speech about, you know, uh, uh, uh, the,
[2:17:27 - 2:17:32] ▶
the, the layers, uh, concealing the truth.
[2:17:32 - 2:17:35] ▶
There are great ideas undiscovered breakthroughs available to those who can remove
[2:17:35 - 2:17:42] ▶
one of truth's protective layers.
[2:17:42 - 2:17:46] ▶
Are in fact, the idea that once you, you get past the Van Allen belt,
[2:17:46 - 2:17:50] ▶
you actually encounter just a UFO. And then you have, okay. Another one.
[2:17:50 - 2:17:54] ▶
Very well could be the case. And all I can tell you is I was good friends with
[2:17:54 - 2:17:58] ▶
Edgar Mitchell. I went to his house.
[2:17:58 - 2:18:00] ▶
I sat down with him in the middle of a UFO interview. I was like, I, I, I'm sorry
[2:18:00 - 2:18:05] ▶
to ask this of you. I know you get asked this all the time, but what was it like
[2:18:05 - 2:18:08] ▶
to go to the moon? I closed my eyes and I listened to every, every detail.
[2:18:08 - 2:18:11] ▶
But if that guy was lying, he was a damn good liar.
[2:18:12 - 2:18:15] ▶
Like just me in the room with him and the sound guy or audio guy, you know,
[2:18:15 - 2:18:19] ▶
I'd have to dismiss him. I'd have to dismiss fan Potter. I'd have to say like,
[2:18:19 - 2:18:24] ▶
I'm open to it though.
[2:18:25 - 2:18:26] ▶
So here, no, here, here's where I land.
[2:18:26 - 2:18:28] ▶
I'm sorry. Yeah. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but no, you didn't interrupt me at all.
[2:18:28 - 2:18:31] ▶
I'm just answering. I'm just kind of responding to how, where you're at is like,
[2:18:31 - 2:18:35] ▶
I think the presentation of the first Apollo mission was clearly manicured and sanitized.
[2:18:35 - 2:18:43] ▶
Can I tell you something about that?
[2:18:43 - 2:18:44] ▶
So I talked to Edgar Mish goes, a lot of this stuff was coming out in the nineties.
[2:18:45 - 2:18:48] ▶
And they were questioning the moon landing stuff. And I was like, yo, what do you think
[2:18:48 - 2:18:51] ▶
about all this like imagery and dah, dah, dah?
[2:18:51 - 2:18:52] ▶
He goes, James, it wouldn't surprise me. He goes, we had Hasselblad cameras with no
[2:18:53 - 2:18:57] ▶
viewfinders, gardening gloves on.
[2:18:57 - 2:18:58] ▶
And like the whole world was watching. He goes, it wouldn't surprise me if they
[2:18:59 - 2:19:04] ▶
recreated some imagery that they could fall back on just in case.
[2:19:04 - 2:19:08] ▶
The biggest, most expensive endeavor in the history of mankind.
[2:19:08 - 2:19:12] ▶
And like, and he goes, that wouldn't surprise me, but he goes, I walked on the moon.
[2:19:12 - 2:19:16] ▶
And like, if we had one person and maybe we do, but I don't know of anyone. I don't
[2:19:18 - 2:19:23] ▶
know how many people were involved in putting a man on the moon, but I'm assuming it was
[2:19:23 - 2:19:27] ▶
in the tens of thousands, if not more. And not one person from high level at NASA.
[2:19:27 - 2:19:32] ▶
Well, walking on the moon, way less than 10th at.
[2:19:32 - 2:19:34] ▶
You know, no, no, no, no, but what it.
[2:19:34 - 2:19:36] ▶
Oh, involved in the program.
[2:19:36 - 2:19:37] ▶
In the Apollo program.
[2:19:37 - 2:19:38] ▶
A few hundred thousand.
[2:19:39 - 2:19:40] ▶
A few hundred thousand.
[2:19:40 - 2:19:41] ▶
So has anyone from that few hundred thousand come forward and said it didn't happen?
[2:19:41 - 2:19:44] ▶
But, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[2:19:45 - 2:19:46] ▶
No, no Apollo astronauts, but some people within the NASA.
[2:19:49 - 2:19:52] ▶
Some people in, yeah, in fact, there's this guy who Rogan talked about on the show where
[2:19:52 - 2:19:56] ▶
he like did this whole review and he, you know.
[2:19:56 - 2:19:59] ▶
Oh, I, I, I saw that.
[2:19:59 - 2:20:01] ▶
It's working with NASA.
[2:20:01 - 2:20:02] ▶
Danny, Danny, Danny.
[2:20:02 - 2:20:03] ▶
And, and you had the Danny Jones, you know, but, but Bart Cybrell is, he's not associated
[2:20:03 - 2:20:07] ▶
with the program itself, but there are, there are people who were, and there's the Gus Grisham
[2:20:07 - 2:20:11] ▶
He died the next day and put a lemon on the thing.
[2:20:12 - 2:20:15] ▶
There's some weird facts and you could, you know, if you think that the UFO program is involves
[2:20:15 - 2:20:20] ▶
like so many people, like there's an argument that could be made that the only thing that
[2:20:20 - 2:20:26] ▶
would need to be faked would be like mission control.
[2:20:26 - 2:20:28] ▶
And if you could fake mission control, you know, like all the parts suppliers and all
[2:20:28 - 2:20:33] ▶
the people like doing kind of the ancillary kind of peripheral, you have, you know, like
[2:20:33 - 2:20:36] ▶
the, the spokes of the wheel, so to speak in the operation, they could easily be lied
[2:20:36 - 2:20:41] ▶
I, you know, I think we attempted and then like, you know, I did there's to me.
[2:20:46 - 2:20:50] ▶
I, I, following the evidence, something about the presentation of the whole thing.
[2:20:50 - 2:20:54] ▶
And I think the video's weird.
[2:20:56 - 2:20:57] ▶
The two light, the two light sources that, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the flag,
[2:20:57 - 2:21:03] ▶
the, you know, there's just like, there's a, there's a lot, you know, no dust on the
[2:21:03 - 2:21:07] ▶
I talked to a guy who was a scientist that actually coincidentally worked on that cheesy
[2:21:08 - 2:21:12] ▶
I did Ben, uh, is the guy.
[2:21:13 - 2:21:15] ▶
And I was asking him about the moon landing stuff and he's like, well, you know, and
[2:21:15 - 2:21:19] ▶
he's told geeked out scientists, like, he's like, ah, you know, we can see the, the laser.
[2:21:19 - 2:21:23] ▶
We put a laser on some of the things that we left on the surface of the moon.
[2:21:23 - 2:21:26] ▶
The, the reflectors.
[2:21:26 - 2:21:27] ▶
And we have stuff up there and you can see them.
[2:21:28 - 2:21:30] ▶
You can put a, you can put up the reflector with the, with the rover.
[2:21:30 - 2:21:33] ▶
But so something went to the moon according to this guy, Ben.
[2:21:34 - 2:21:37] ▶
Well, we put rovers to the, up to the moon.
[2:21:38 - 2:21:40] ▶
No, no question about that.
[2:21:40 - 2:21:42] ▶
No, you know, I, again, going back to the UFO phenomenon, every time I say something's
[2:21:44 - 2:21:48] ▶
impossible, therefore, you know, it can't be, therefore it isn't, I've been proven
[2:21:48 - 2:21:52] ▶
So I have to open, I have to be like, from what I know, I believe we went to the moon.
[2:21:53 - 2:21:58] ▶
And I'm not going to sit there and say, I'm, you know, I know what I'm talking about.
[2:21:59 - 2:22:02] ▶
Cause I really don't, well, maybe the more interesting middle path would be their UFOs
[2:22:02 - 2:22:06] ▶
along the way to the moon and it's surrounded or something.
[2:22:06 - 2:22:08] ▶
And then you have, um, John Podesta, who is Clinton's chief of staff and, you know,
[2:22:08 - 2:22:13] ▶
Cause he talked about, you know, they, so, uh, uh, Lawrence Spellman Rockefeller, who put
[2:22:18 - 2:22:23] ▶
together the briefing document for, uh, dignitaries and high level politicians and all that stuff.
[2:22:23 - 2:22:30] ▶
I think it was like a global thing.
[2:22:30 - 2:22:31] ▶
Uh, he apparently put significant pressure on the Clinton administration to look into
[2:22:31 - 2:22:38] ▶
UFOs and to the point where he said, if you don't do it, I'm going to, I'm going to publish,
[2:22:38 - 2:22:43] ▶
publicize the fact that you won't do it.
[2:22:43 - 2:22:45] ▶
I'm going to put it on the cover of every magazine across the country, you know, blah,
[2:22:45 - 2:22:48] ▶
Apparently threatened him a little bit.
[2:22:48 - 2:22:50] ▶
And, uh, and so Podesta said, all right, well, the Clinton administration said, all right,
[2:22:50 - 2:22:55] ▶
pick a case that we should look into.
[2:22:55 - 2:22:57] ▶
And they picked Roswell cause Roswell, obviously if it happened, right.
[2:22:57 - 2:23:00] ▶
And so, uh, and then according to Podesta, Clinton was not happy with the answers they
[2:23:00 - 2:23:06] ▶
They were getting the runaround.
[2:23:07 - 2:23:07] ▶
The president of the United States was getting the runaround.
[2:23:08 - 2:23:09] ▶
Yeah, no, that's right.
[2:23:09 - 2:23:10] ▶
And then Podesta basically entered a, you know, multi-decade long personal search for this
[2:23:10 - 2:23:16] ▶
Isn't it cool that he spoke out at one of the, uh, National Press Club events.
[2:23:17 - 2:23:21] ▶
I think that Leslie Kane was involved with way back, back, back when.
[2:23:21 - 2:23:24] ▶
Well, they're, they're emails that have since been deleted between him and Tom DeLonge.
[2:23:26 - 2:23:31] ▶
And these are, this came out over WikiLeaks, but, you know, I think this, this exists in
[2:23:32 - 2:23:36] ▶
the form of screenshots or maybe the Wayback Machine or something.
[2:23:36 - 2:23:38] ▶
And it's him, uh, meeting with a guy named Bob Fish, who, um, I think might've worked at
[2:23:39 - 2:23:45] ▶
Aerospace Corporation and El Segundo across from SpaceX, this sort of mysterious federally
[2:23:45 - 2:23:50] ▶
funded research and development center think tank.
[2:23:50 - 2:23:52] ▶
And they're talking about fast walkers and they're talking about things in space,
[2:23:53 - 2:23:57] ▶
And, and you, to this day, you cannot use the freedom of information act on fast walkers.
[2:23:58 - 2:24:02] ▶
You know, uh, John Greenwald tried to do that.
[2:24:02 - 2:24:05] ▶
He's like the, you know, UFO FOIA guy and, and was rejected.
[2:24:05 - 2:24:08] ▶
And, um, and the defense support program, the DSP is the air force's outermost defense
[2:24:09 - 2:24:14] ▶
of like, uh, you know, 80,000 miles up.
[2:24:14 - 2:24:16] ▶
It's, uh, yeah, I think, uh, a little less than that, I think, but yeah.
[2:24:17 - 2:24:20] ▶
I meant to say 80,000 feet.
[2:24:22 - 2:24:23] ▶
Cause isn't that space?
[2:24:23 - 2:24:24] ▶
That's where space starts.
[2:24:24 - 2:24:25] ▶
But I think, um, I think it's, I think it's like 35,000 kilometers and up is
[2:24:25 - 2:24:31] ▶
geosynchronous orbit.
[2:24:31 - 2:24:32] ▶
That's where they're detecting these fast walkers.
[2:24:33 - 2:24:35] ▶
And that's where they're detecting these fast walkers.
[2:24:35 - 2:24:37] ▶
And so, and so you have the Malmgren thing where you puncture the Van Allen radiation
[2:24:39 - 2:24:43] ▶
belt and that UFO material comes out.
[2:24:43 - 2:24:45] ▶
You have the, you have, it's, uh, it just material that he held is all, is all we know.
[2:24:45 - 2:24:50] ▶
Lawrence Preston Geis who ran the atomic energy commission, commission Albuquerque branch.
[2:24:50 - 2:24:54] ▶
Did they scoop it out of the ocean?
[2:24:54 - 2:24:56] ▶
They did scoop it out of the ocean.
[2:24:56 - 2:24:57] ▶
And, uh, general, uh, general starbird, um, he was there flew back to headquarters at
[2:24:58 - 2:25:04] ▶
like 4 AM that night and William Ogle, who was overseeing the whole thing for Los Alamos,
[2:25:04 - 2:25:08] ▶
uh, special projects division writes about it.
[2:25:08 - 2:25:11] ▶
And all, all of this is like public.
[2:25:11 - 2:25:13] ▶
It's, it's, it's really insane.
[2:25:13 - 2:25:14] ▶
And you have this kind of public fight between, um, uh, you have on the one hand, Jeffrey
[2:25:15 - 2:25:20] ▶
Cruikshank, who's like a nuclear expert UFO researcher in Australia.
[2:25:20 - 2:25:24] ▶
And, um, then D Dean Johnson and, uh, uh, Merrick von Rennenkamp.
[2:25:24 - 2:25:29] ▶
They say it's the booster, but he's sure that it can't be the booster.
[2:25:29 - 2:25:32] ▶
It has to be some sort of anomalous UFO material, but you have video of something coming out.
[2:25:32 - 2:25:36] ▶
Uh, and then, and then you have this other video where it looks like there's a white triangle
[2:25:36 - 2:25:41] ▶
superimposing the UFO coming out of the nuclear blast plume.
[2:25:41 - 2:25:45] ▶
And I, that's where.
[2:25:47 - 2:25:49] ▶
The debate gets a little above my head as far as, you know, the.
[2:25:49 - 2:25:53] ▶
Merrick and D Dean Johnson versus the.
[2:25:54 - 2:25:57] ▶
I don't know if that, but we need more eyes on that.
[2:25:58 - 2:26:00] ▶
It's an important thing.
[2:26:00 - 2:26:01] ▶
When you interviewed Malroom.
[2:26:01 - 2:26:02] ▶
And I was watching the interview.
[2:26:03 - 2:26:04] ▶
I was like, I'm so glad you got to him.
[2:26:04 - 2:26:06] ▶
Uh, I was thinking to myself and this is just me speculating, whatever I was thinking
[2:26:07 - 2:26:11] ▶
like about that launch of the Atlas rocket at Vanderburg circa 1964, uh, with the, with
[2:26:11 - 2:26:21] ▶
the, with the dummy warhead on it.
[2:26:21 - 2:26:22] ▶
No wonder if it's true.
[2:26:24 - 2:26:26] ▶
They detonated that up into, was it subspace or.
[2:26:27 - 2:26:30] ▶
High altitude nuclear.
[2:26:31 - 2:26:33] ▶
So if that's the case, no wonder why they were shooting at.
[2:26:35 - 2:26:38] ▶
The dummy warhead according to Jacobs.
[2:26:39 - 2:26:42] ▶
The footage that he captured.
[2:26:43 - 2:26:44] ▶
If I, if one of my comrades was shot down by one of these silly, like missile launch with
[2:26:44 - 2:26:49] ▶
a nuclear, you know what I mean?
[2:26:49 - 2:26:50] ▶
Like I'd probably shoot it out of the sky too, which is exactly what they did.
[2:26:50 - 2:26:53] ▶
I was like, wow, that makes sense.
[2:26:53 - 2:26:57] ▶
No wonder why they shot it out of the sky.
[2:26:57 - 2:26:59] ▶
It took some of their people down.
[2:26:59 - 2:27:01] ▶
And then, and then you, then you have this.
[2:27:02 - 2:27:04] ▶
Disabling nukes, shooting that out of the sky.
[2:27:04 - 2:27:06] ▶
Like that's pretty phenomenal.
[2:27:06 - 2:27:09] ▶
It's really phenomenal.
[2:27:09 - 2:27:10] ▶
And Lou Elizondo said he saw that footage.
[2:27:10 - 2:27:12] ▶
He says he saw that footage and he says he knows where it is.
[2:27:13 - 2:27:15] ▶
And I'm like, will you get that thing out?
[2:27:15 - 2:27:17] ▶
We saw the video and we had it in daytip.
[2:27:17 - 2:27:19] ▶
Cause that's what I was going to ask you.
[2:27:21 - 2:27:22] ▶
He said, he was like, I think Lou has seen the video.
[2:27:22 - 2:27:25] ▶
So you've seen the video.
[2:27:25 - 2:27:26] ▶
So, you know, this is a real thing.
[2:27:27 - 2:27:29] ▶
Is, is the video, do you still have the video?
[2:27:31 - 2:27:34] ▶
Or I don't have, it was, it was in Pentagon with all my other files.
[2:27:34 - 2:27:37] ▶
When, when the Pentagon said they deleted everything, of course, we know they really
[2:27:37 - 2:27:40] ▶
didn't because really after they, oh yeah.
[2:27:40 - 2:27:43] ▶
I know where everything is.
[2:27:45 - 2:27:46] ▶
And then, and then when I talked to a buddy of mine, apparently somebody went in and they,
[2:27:46 - 2:27:49] ▶
they cleaned everything out.
[2:27:49 - 2:27:50] ▶
But what they don't realize is that there's backups in a whole lot of places at that.
[2:27:50 - 2:27:54] ▶
The problem is if I say it right now, they'll go and know mysteriously, a bunch of people's
[2:27:56 - 2:28:00] ▶
computers will wind up disappearing tomorrow.
[2:28:00 - 2:28:02] ▶
So I'm just going to wait until the right time.
[2:28:02 - 2:28:05] ▶
And, uh, you know, that stuff is alive and well.
[2:28:05 - 2:28:08] ▶
We need to provide people like Lou and Grush immunity so they can give us all those details
[2:28:08 - 2:28:14] ▶
That, that needs to happen.
[2:28:14 - 2:28:15] ▶
We need to figure that out.
[2:28:15 - 2:28:16] ▶
Give it like, if the presidential executive order say everything you know and let's,
[2:28:17 - 2:28:22] ▶
You have to say everything, you know, or you're in trouble.
[2:28:23 - 2:28:26] ▶
Everything, you know, that doesn't compromise some like specific vehicle you're working
[2:28:26 - 2:28:30] ▶
That's going to confer a tactical advantage to Russia or China.
[2:28:31 - 2:28:33] ▶
All the science, let it out and flip it and say, if you don't say everything, you know,
[2:28:34 - 2:28:38] ▶
you're going to get in trouble.
[2:28:38 - 2:28:39] ▶
I mean, you know, look, we've got nothing to lose everything to gain.
[2:28:40 - 2:28:45] ▶
Obviously there are certain aspects of national security.
[2:28:45 - 2:28:47] ▶
I understand that they don't want to get in the hands of the wrong people.
[2:28:47 - 2:28:49] ▶
You know, if the accounts would be believed that Russia is obviously trying to figure
[2:28:50 - 2:28:54] ▶
But it's like, it's like nuclear trade secrets.
[2:28:55 - 2:28:57] ▶
We don't let out the trade secrets, but nuclear science is taught at universities across the
[2:28:57 - 2:29:02] ▶
This should be treated the exact same way.
[2:29:03 - 2:29:04] ▶
And like, you know, like I said earlier in the show, if you don't believe Lou, if you
[2:29:06 - 2:29:10] ▶
don't believe Grush, you don't believe Hal, you don't believe Eric Davis or any of these
[2:29:10 - 2:29:13] ▶
other alleged whistleblowers, uh, let's, let's give them immunity and let's put them
[2:29:13 - 2:29:19] ▶
Well, that's Eric Davis in your recent moment of contact.
[2:29:19 - 2:29:21] ▶
He's asking for that.
[2:29:21 - 2:29:22] ▶
He says, literally, give me blanket immunity and I will say everything I know.
[2:29:22 - 2:29:27] ▶
He'll testify tomorrow in an open, under oath.
[2:29:27 - 2:29:31] ▶
To a bipartisan group of lawmakers openly for the whole world to see.
[2:29:32 - 2:29:35] ▶
And he says he has all this data on crash retrievals, alien bodies.
[2:29:36 - 2:29:39] ▶
Criticize them all you want.
[2:29:39 - 2:29:40] ▶
He says, I swear on my family's life that this is the truth.
[2:29:40 - 2:29:43] ▶
He said on my children's life.
[2:29:43 - 2:29:45] ▶
On my children's life.
[2:29:45 - 2:29:46] ▶
We have alien spaceships in our possession.
[2:29:47 - 2:29:50] ▶
Where and why can't I get the specifics to verify those claims?
[2:29:51 - 2:29:55] ▶
If the president of the United States issued an executive order that absolves me of all
[2:29:55 - 2:30:05] ▶
NDAs are non-disclosure agreements.
[2:30:08 - 2:30:10] ▶
Those are the agreements we have to sign for every compartment in our SCI clearances.
[2:30:10 - 2:30:15] ▶
So if the president waives or absolves my obligation to those NDAs and I get subpoenaed by Congress,
[2:30:15 - 2:30:26] ▶
somebody on Capitol Hill, some committee, either in the Senate or the House or the both,
[2:30:26 - 2:30:30] ▶
to reveal everything I know that I learned from my investigations, both unclassified and
[2:30:30 - 2:30:36] ▶
classified into the legacy UAP, crash retrieval and hardware reverse engineering and NHI programs,
[2:30:36 - 2:30:44] ▶
If I could be waived from that or absolved in some fashion by presidential order and if
[2:30:45 - 2:30:50] ▶
Congress subpoenas me, yes, I would go and tell them everything I know.
[2:30:50 - 2:30:53] ▶
This reality is very hard, very physical, very real.
[2:30:53 - 2:30:57] ▶
And this type of evidence, you can't come by in the open literature.
[2:30:58 - 2:31:02] ▶
And I can't discuss what it was, but I can tell you, yeah, it's a crash retrieval.
[2:31:04 - 2:31:09] ▶
And there's alien bodies.
[2:31:11 - 2:31:12] ▶
That's all I can say about it.
[2:31:14 - 2:31:15] ▶
You swear on your life that you saw those pictures.
[2:31:15 - 2:31:18] ▶
Oh, I swear on my life and everybody's, my children's life.
[2:31:18 - 2:31:21] ▶
So, yeah, I'm absolutely telling you the truth.
[2:31:21 - 2:31:24] ▶
So, yes, that needs...
[2:31:28 - 2:31:29] ▶
Thank you for remembering that.
[2:31:29 - 2:31:30] ▶
That's a great line.
[2:31:30 - 2:31:31] ▶
I swear on my children.
[2:31:32 - 2:31:33] ▶
Who's going to say that?
[2:31:33 - 2:31:34] ▶
You're either a sick person...
[2:31:36 - 2:31:37] ▶
You're a psychopath.
[2:31:37 - 2:31:38] ▶
Or you're telling the truth.
[2:31:38 - 2:31:39] ▶
Or you're telling the truth.
[2:31:39 - 2:31:40] ▶
And speaking of, you know, the idea of...
[2:31:42 - 2:31:44] ▶
You're all speaking of psychopaths.
[2:31:44 - 2:31:45] ▶
Speaking of psychopaths, yeah.
[2:31:46 - 2:31:48] ▶
No, speaking of your mentioning of Bob Jacobs' Vandenberg case in 64,
[2:31:48 - 2:31:52] ▶
where you have this dummy nuclear warhead getting shot out of the sky.
[2:31:52 - 2:31:56] ▶
This is where it gets really trippy.
[2:31:58 - 2:31:59] ▶
Because either they are defending against some sort of incursion in their airspace.
[2:32:00 - 2:32:05] ▶
Or they're actually provoking some of this occurring.
[2:32:05 - 2:32:10] ▶
So this is really strange.
[2:32:10 - 2:32:11] ▶
But Malmgren on his deathbed told Pippa, his daughter,
[2:32:12 - 2:32:15] ▶
that he saw an interview from one of the surviving beings from Roswell.
[2:32:16 - 2:32:20] ▶
Yeah, yeah, not live.
[2:32:27 - 2:32:28] ▶
Abundance of clarity.
[2:32:28 - 2:32:29] ▶
So Malmgren on his deathbed...
[2:32:30 - 2:32:32] ▶
...told his daughter Pippa...
[2:32:32 - 2:32:33] ▶
Who's alive and a friend of mine and...
[2:32:33 - 2:32:36] ▶
A taped interview with a captured alien.
[2:32:38 - 2:32:41] ▶
With a captured alien.
[2:32:41 - 2:32:42] ▶
Guess what the alien said?
[2:32:43 - 2:32:45] ▶
The alien gave them the idea to do Bluegill Triple Prime.
[2:32:45 - 2:32:52] ▶
And have this, you know, specialized X-ray system that would not only be used as missile defense,
[2:32:52 - 2:33:00] ▶
but be used to take out UFO material out of the sky to be reverse engineered.
[2:33:00 - 2:33:05] ▶
Like giving him information as to how to retrieve the material.
[2:33:11 - 2:33:14] ▶
So you get into this weird thing where like...
[2:33:15 - 2:33:17] ▶
It's better than you can say that on camera.
[2:33:17 - 2:33:19] ▶
Well, there's so much...
[2:33:21 - 2:33:22] ▶
But why would his daughter make that up?
[2:33:22 - 2:33:23] ▶
No, why would she make it up?
[2:33:24 - 2:33:25] ▶
That doesn't make any sense.
[2:33:25 - 2:33:26] ▶
Well, it's all these things.
[2:33:26 - 2:33:27] ▶
And there was kind of a takedown of the...
[2:33:27 - 2:33:30] ▶
You know, there's all these people criticizing Malmgren afterwards.
[2:33:30 - 2:33:33] ▶
Well, yeah, well, I can also...
[2:33:34 - 2:33:36] ▶
I mean, when they're dead.
[2:33:36 - 2:33:37] ▶
I can also crush all their arguments.
[2:33:38 - 2:33:39] ▶
You know, this is...
[2:33:40 - 2:33:41] ▶
You know, I don't want to be too tribalistic.
[2:33:41 - 2:33:43] ▶
Like I do think all of this stuff has to be thought about probabilistically.
[2:33:43 - 2:33:47] ▶
And like, if there are good points, please make them against this guy.
[2:33:47 - 2:33:51] ▶
There are no sacred cows.
[2:33:52 - 2:33:53] ▶
He's making an extraordinary claim.
[2:33:53 - 2:33:54] ▶
But this guy was an elite statesman who knew people, you know, at the top of the...
[2:33:55 - 2:34:02] ▶
Like literally, you know, knew Nixon personally.
[2:34:02 - 2:34:04] ▶
He was LBJ, JFK, Nixon, and Ford, you know, presidential advisor.
[2:34:04 - 2:34:10] ▶
He's not an anybody.
[2:34:11 - 2:34:12] ▶
He was a little bit junior in the JFK administration.
[2:34:12 - 2:34:15] ▶
It was more, you know, in touch with Shriver.
[2:34:16 - 2:34:17] ▶
But like, yeah, was not a nobody.
[2:34:19 - 2:34:22] ▶
You know, talks about stories with the, you know, Russian foreign minister Dobrynin.
[2:34:22 - 2:34:26] ▶
His mentor was Richard Bissell, who was founded Area 51 and was the deputy director of the CIA,
[2:34:26 - 2:34:33] ▶
the number two at the entire CIA.
[2:34:33 - 2:34:34] ▶
We have diaries of his that say meeting with Bissell all over his diary, his journal.
[2:34:35 - 2:34:42] ▶
So he definitely knew Bissell.
[2:34:42 - 2:34:44] ▶
If he had gotten his Q clearance through the CIA, there's no way to use the Freedom of Information Act against it.
[2:34:44 - 2:34:50] ▶
Is that the highest level of clearance, Q?
[2:34:50 - 2:34:51] ▶
Well, I think there may possibly, you know, UAP Gribb talks about different designations within Q clearance.
[2:34:52 - 2:34:58] ▶
Like, I think there's this like special foreign intelligence design...
[2:34:59 - 2:35:02] ▶
So the CIA works with the DOE.
[2:35:02 - 2:35:05] ▶
And there's a counterintel division actually of the CIA that like works with the Department of Energy.
[2:35:05 - 2:35:12] ▶
And I think there are different Q clearances you can have.
[2:35:12 - 2:35:15] ▶
Sorry, Department of Energy.
[2:35:16 - 2:35:17] ▶
Because I was told, I think it was Chris Mellon was telling me this, that they hide things because anything nuclear would be national security.
[2:35:18 - 2:35:26] ▶
And that's under the Department of Energy?
[2:35:26 - 2:35:28] ▶
If you look at the...
[2:35:28 - 2:35:29] ▶
So you could hide these SAPs and WUSAPs under the Department of Energy?
[2:35:29 - 2:35:32] ▶
But if you look at the special definition of nuclear material, 1954 Atomic Energy Act, it's anything emitting any sort of radiation, alpha, beta, gamma radiation, whatever.
[2:35:34 - 2:35:43] ▶
Upon retrieval of that thing, that is restricted data.
[2:35:43 - 2:35:48] ▶
So it's born secret.
[2:35:48 - 2:35:49] ▶
Automatically secret.
[2:35:49 - 2:35:50] ▶
Automatically secret.
[2:35:50 - 2:35:51] ▶
So if you're an aerospace contractor, you don't need some sort of official clearance designation.
[2:35:51 - 2:35:55] ▶
You know, you just...
[2:35:56 - 2:35:56] ▶
It's just automatic.
[2:35:56 - 2:35:57] ▶
You're automatically...
[2:35:57 - 2:35:58] ▶
Under that envelope.
[2:35:58 - 2:35:59] ▶
So you have this blog came out trying to debunk Malmgren, but if he got a skill clearance through the CIA, they'd have no idea that, you know, you can't use a freedom of information against that.
[2:36:01 - 2:36:16] ▶
This was at the time where, you know, not official covers, this idea of being a knock for the CIA was like rampant, like a ton of these guys.
[2:36:16 - 2:36:24] ▶
And he was at a federal funded research and development center called the IDA, the Institute for Defense Analysis, which has instituted every...
[2:36:24 - 2:36:33] ▶
Or has helped with every single missile defense system that the U.S. has built since then, since Bluegill Triple Prime.
[2:36:33 - 2:36:39] ▶
And he said in a 2024 interview before he interviewed with me that his work at the IDA was actually a cover for what he was doing for the National Security Council in the White House.
[2:36:39 - 2:36:48] ▶
So you have all these arguments that, oh, he's just at the IDA.
[2:36:48 - 2:36:51] ▶
He's like some junior guy.
[2:36:51 - 2:36:52] ▶
Like, no, he's already talked about this.
[2:36:52 - 2:36:55] ▶
And his mentor, by the way, was extremely high up at the CIA.
[2:36:55 - 2:36:57] ▶
Do you see this is what you're really good at?
[2:36:58 - 2:36:59] ▶
You're really good at putting these complex pieces of the puzzle together.
[2:36:59 - 2:37:01] ▶
It's like, oh, this is like this.
[2:37:02 - 2:37:03] ▶
And this is over here.
[2:37:05 - 2:37:05] ▶
Well, it's important.
[2:37:07 - 2:37:07] ▶
Well, you're totally important.
[2:37:08 - 2:37:09] ▶
And I love the deep dives that you do.
[2:37:10 - 2:37:11] ▶
Just like when I put the maps up for Virginia, this witness was here.
[2:37:11 - 2:37:15] ▶
This witness turns out to be there.
[2:37:15 - 2:37:16] ▶
It's like, oh, my gosh, it all lines up.
[2:37:16 - 2:37:18] ▶
You have a full picture.
[2:37:18 - 2:37:19] ▶
You have a full picture.
[2:37:19 - 2:37:20] ▶
Just like what you're doing on the inside, like you're creating that full picture, which
[2:37:20 - 2:37:24] ▶
is mandatory for what you do.
[2:37:24 - 2:37:25] ▶
Like when I'm in the field putting the pieces of the puzzle together, when we met, it made
[2:37:25 - 2:37:31] ▶
perfectly good sense because we knew for decades that it went initially alive to regional.
[2:37:31 - 2:37:37] ▶
Then it was humanitas.
[2:37:38 - 2:37:39] ▶
Now we have to get to humanitas.
[2:37:39 - 2:37:40] ▶
We're working on that now.
[2:37:40 - 2:37:41] ▶
Like, you know what I mean?
[2:37:42 - 2:37:43] ▶
You're putting the pieces and they're all, it's all painting the picture.
[2:37:43 - 2:37:46] ▶
Like, it's incredible.
[2:37:47 - 2:37:49] ▶
Just like what you're doing.
[2:37:49 - 2:37:50] ▶
You're putting all the pieces of the puzzle together.
[2:37:50 - 2:37:52] ▶
Where are the different?
[2:37:52 - 2:37:53] ▶
And I'm always impressed when I watch how you do that.
[2:37:54 - 2:37:57] ▶
Like, I'm doing it in my little way and you're doing, you know.
[2:37:57 - 2:38:01] ▶
Yeah, no, it's really cool to watch.
[2:38:01 - 2:38:03] ▶
That was like, there was a couple of deep dive interviews that you did that I was just
[2:38:03 - 2:38:09] ▶
You know, it was very impressive.
[2:38:10 - 2:38:12] ▶
With Hal, or was it Hal?
[2:38:12 - 2:38:14] ▶
Yeah, that whole thing.
[2:38:18 - 2:38:19] ▶
Just the deep dives and the stuff that you do is very impressive to watch.
[2:38:19 - 2:38:22] ▶
It's fun to watch all this stuff accelerate.
[2:38:23 - 2:38:25] ▶
We're in this together.
[2:38:26 - 2:38:27] ▶
We support each other.
[2:38:27 - 2:38:28] ▶
I remind people out there that we're stronger together.
[2:38:29 - 2:38:33] ▶
Be kind, particularly those you disagree with.
[2:38:34 - 2:38:37] ▶
It's okay that we disagree.
[2:38:37 - 2:38:38] ▶
Nothing wrong with that.
[2:38:39 - 2:38:39] ▶
And, you know, I'm not out here screaming E.T. from the hilltops.
[2:38:40 - 2:38:44] ▶
I want to know desperately what's behind it all.
[2:38:47 - 2:38:51] ▶
It's easy to, it's easier and lazier to impugn somebody's motives and say that they're a bad
[2:38:51 - 2:38:58] ▶
actor than to actually tackle the substance.
[2:38:58 - 2:39:00] ▶
Or give them a platform so they can, they can cough up the goods.
[2:39:01 - 2:39:03] ▶
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[2:39:05 - 2:39:06] ▶
So I'm just going to criticize you and I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to, you
[2:39:07 - 2:39:11] ▶
Like people give these breadcrumbs.
[2:39:12 - 2:39:14] ▶
I think about like David Grosh, for instance, you know, he comes forward.
[2:39:14 - 2:39:17] ▶
It's like, all right, well, you know what?
[2:39:17 - 2:39:18] ▶
You know, extraordinary claims.
[2:39:19 - 2:39:20] ▶
If you want to say, you know, give us the extraordinary evidence, but why not create that
[2:39:21 - 2:39:25] ▶
platform for David Grosh to build, to do that?
[2:39:25 - 2:39:27] ▶
He's scared for his safety, his family's safety.
[2:39:29 - 2:39:32] ▶
Like he could get locked up.
[2:39:32 - 2:39:33] ▶
I mean, those are real concerns that these people have.
[2:39:33 - 2:39:36] ▶
You think he's going to fall on his face.
[2:39:36 - 2:39:37] ▶
Give him the one-time clearance.
[2:39:38 - 2:39:39] ▶
Let him go back into a skiff.
[2:39:39 - 2:39:40] ▶
That's exactly right.
[2:39:40 - 2:39:41] ▶
Like, or put him out to testify in a row.
[2:39:41 - 2:39:43] ▶
Like why wouldn't we do that?
[2:39:43 - 2:39:45] ▶
You got, I got more for you.
[2:39:50 - 2:39:52] ▶
Cause you got, you've, you've seen so much history.
[2:39:52 - 2:39:54] ▶
So have you ever seen a saucer in a hanger?
[2:39:54 - 2:39:57] ▶
Cause of all people, if I was on the inside, I'd say, I'd say, James.
[2:40:02 - 2:40:06] ▶
I can neither, you've done your, you've done your work.
[2:40:06 - 2:40:08] ▶
Have you ever been taken into a skiff?
[2:40:10 - 2:40:13] ▶
Have you ever seen anything interesting in a skiff?
[2:40:14 - 2:40:16] ▶
I can't talk about that because they asked me not to, but I said, if that goes out, that's
[2:40:19 - 2:40:24] ▶
not going to look good for you guys.
[2:40:24 - 2:40:25] ▶
That's that flies in the face of all the testimony that I've ever heard.
[2:40:26 - 2:40:29] ▶
So not as good as things you've seen in the open source.
[2:40:29 - 2:40:31] ▶
It was really funny too, because I, I just put out the program and I met with a number
[2:40:32 - 2:40:37] ▶
of government insiders that are, Intel insiders, excuse me, that described the exact computer,
[2:40:37 - 2:40:42] ▶
uh, the computer that has access to all the good, you know what I mean?
[2:40:42 - 2:40:46] ▶
UFO files and stuff like that.
[2:40:46 - 2:40:48] ▶
And I was sitting there looking at it in the skiff and I'm thinking, God, if I can have
[2:40:48 - 2:40:53] ▶
just a few minutes of that computer, you know what I mean?
[2:40:53 - 2:40:55] ▶
No, it was really crazy.
[2:40:56 - 2:40:58] ▶
I was one of kind of a pinch yourself moment when I was in there with John Koskowski, the
[2:40:58 - 2:41:02] ▶
new head of Arrow, which I liked him actually.
[2:41:02 - 2:41:04] ▶
You thought he was cool?
[2:41:04 - 2:41:05] ▶
I did way cooler than Sean Kirkpatrick.
[2:41:05 - 2:41:07] ▶
Sean Kirkpatrick, man, that guy, maybe that guy was read in or something.
[2:41:08 - 2:41:12] ▶
That guy was, I don't trust that guy at all.
[2:41:13 - 2:41:15] ▶
John Koskowski was really nice guy.
[2:41:15 - 2:41:18] ▶
I looked him in the eyes.
[2:41:18 - 2:41:18] ▶
He seemed like a sincere, honest, nice guy.
[2:41:18 - 2:41:21] ▶
I did not get a bad vibe from him, but.
[2:41:21 - 2:41:24] ▶
I was talking openly because I was like, whatever, I have to lose.
[2:41:24 - 2:41:28] ▶
Like I was talking about Rua.
[2:41:29 - 2:41:30] ▶
I was talking about, you know, Virginia.
[2:41:30 - 2:41:31] ▶
I was talking about Socorro, all these different cases.
[2:41:31 - 2:41:34] ▶
And I was like, you know, you know, you're going to draw the conclusion after all the
[2:41:34 - 2:41:40] ▶
other, you've exhausted every other possibility that we are dealing with a small percentage
[2:41:40 - 2:41:45] ▶
of probably non-human intelligence.
[2:41:45 - 2:41:47] ▶
I mean, you know that, like, what's the plan to tell the public?
[2:41:47 - 2:41:50] ▶
Like, and they were both very quiet and John goes, he goes, you know, James, very soft,
[2:41:50 - 2:41:58] ▶
like non, I liked him.
[2:41:59 - 2:42:01] ▶
I got a good vibe from him.
[2:42:01 - 2:42:02] ▶
And he's like, you know, James, I can't part my hair without the approval of the DOD.
[2:42:03 - 2:42:10] ▶
And then he goes, and you can quote me on that.
[2:42:10 - 2:42:13] ▶
You're quoting him on that.
[2:42:15 - 2:42:16] ▶
But I was in the skiff and, um, it was just like in the movies, you know, I went in, I
[2:42:16 - 2:42:21] ▶
went in, it was not too far from the Pentagon and I had to get a 48 hour background check,
[2:42:21 - 2:42:25] ▶
which I passed, thank God.
[2:42:26 - 2:42:27] ▶
And then I had to go through all the security, take everything off and go through all the,
[2:42:27 - 2:42:31] ▶
oh my gosh, that took forever.
[2:42:31 - 2:42:33] ▶
And then they had these like glass tube, like things.
[2:42:33 - 2:42:36] ▶
I felt like it was a star track or something.
[2:42:36 - 2:42:38] ▶
I think they went to the ceiling or they were pretty high up glass tubes.
[2:42:38 - 2:42:41] ▶
And you walk up to it and one side opens and you step in and then that closes and another
[2:42:41 - 2:42:47] ▶
And now you're in the inside.
[2:42:47 - 2:42:49] ▶
And then I go to a locker.
[2:42:49 - 2:42:50] ▶
They probably got my phone data and I took all my, all my electronics and I put it in the
[2:42:51 - 2:42:56] ▶
locker and, you know, and then we went to a big door with a thing and, you know, just
[2:42:56 - 2:43:01] ▶
like you, almost like a bank vault looking door and it opened up and it was a, it was
[2:43:01 - 2:43:05] ▶
a, it was, I thought it was going to be like a kind of a small room, but it was a huge,
[2:43:05 - 2:43:09] ▶
it was like the whole, the whole office area was all one big skiff.
[2:43:09 - 2:43:14] ▶
And they walked me in there and I was just like, oh my God, this is crazy.
[2:43:15 - 2:43:19] ▶
Actually before, before, uh, we went into the skiff and I had just gotten through security,
[2:43:19 - 2:43:25] ▶
I had this badge and I was like, I really want a picture of this badge.
[2:43:25 - 2:43:28] ▶
Cause I just want to, you know, I want to have it from memory.
[2:43:28 - 2:43:31] ▶
So I, okay, can I use the bathroom?
[2:43:31 - 2:43:33] ▶
It's like, I went in the bathroom.
[2:43:35 - 2:43:36] ▶
I took a picture of the badge, which I have.
[2:43:36 - 2:43:38] ▶
It's, it's not illegal, right?
[2:43:39 - 2:43:40] ▶
To take a picture of the badge.
[2:43:40 - 2:43:42] ▶
But anyway, they take me in this, down this hallway.
[2:43:42 - 2:43:45] ▶
There's a bunch of different cubicles and take me down this hallway.
[2:43:45 - 2:43:47] ▶
And then there was like a door on my right and a door on my left.
[2:43:47 - 2:43:49] ▶
The door on my right was closed.
[2:43:50 - 2:43:51] ▶
The door on the left was open.
[2:43:51 - 2:43:52] ▶
And there was like a, I don't know if it was a round table or if it was slightly like,
[2:43:52 - 2:43:57] ▶
um, like, uh, what do you call, um, um, oblong or whatever.
[2:43:57 - 2:44:03] ▶
But anyway, there were four or five people, couple of girls, couple of guys in suits,
[2:44:03 - 2:44:08] ▶
nicely dressed, sitting there.
[2:44:08 - 2:44:10] ▶
And they said, Hey, wait right here.
[2:44:10 - 2:44:12] ▶
And like I said, I had a door on my, on my right.
[2:44:12 - 2:44:15] ▶
And I had this open door on my left and I couldn't help myself.
[2:44:15 - 2:44:17] ▶
I was just like, you know, kind of listening to the conversation.
[2:44:17 - 2:44:22] ▶
I just, I was scared.
[2:44:23 - 2:44:23] ▶
What else was I supposed to do?
[2:44:24 - 2:44:25] ▶
I stopped where they told me to stop.
[2:44:25 - 2:44:26] ▶
And then they looked at me and they got up and they closed the door.
[2:44:27 - 2:44:30] ▶
And then, uh, and then John Koskowski with another guy from OSI came and, and met with
[2:44:32 - 2:44:38] ▶
me and open, open the door in that room.
[2:44:38 - 2:44:41] ▶
And then we went inside there and that's when we had, I don't know, maybe a 30 minute
[2:44:41 - 2:44:45] ▶
And in that conversation, was he admitting that the UFO stuff is real?
[2:44:45 - 2:44:51] ▶
They didn't say yes.
[2:44:52 - 2:44:53] ▶
They were just sat there quietly.
[2:44:53 - 2:44:54] ▶
Cause I was like this case and this case and this case.
[2:44:56 - 2:44:58] ▶
And then they did say that the phenomenon was mandatory viewing for anyone who worked
[2:44:58 - 2:45:04] ▶
That's pretty awesome.
[2:45:07 - 2:45:08] ▶
That was a nice little, you know.
[2:45:09 - 2:45:11] ▶
I'm telling you, you're doing as much work for, they're, they're learning from you.
[2:45:11 - 2:45:14] ▶
I love my little phenomenon.
[2:45:21 - 2:45:23] ▶
That's an awesome t-shirt.
[2:45:23 - 2:45:23] ▶
No, I'll give you some.
[2:45:24 - 2:45:26] ▶
No, the first time I went on Rogan, I, I, I was like, I'm not going to be the guy who
[2:45:27 - 2:45:31] ▶
gives him a t-shirt on camera.
[2:45:31 - 2:45:33] ▶
I'm going to do it afterwards.
[2:45:33 - 2:45:33] ▶
I always do that too.
[2:45:34 - 2:45:35] ▶
You know what I mean?
[2:45:35 - 2:45:35] ▶
So I give him a t-shirt afterwards.
[2:45:35 - 2:45:37] ▶
On camera is basically like, here's an advertisement for me.
[2:45:37 - 2:45:40] ▶
I was like, hey, you know, and, uh, and I don't even own the phenomenon anymore and none
[2:45:40 - 2:45:44] ▶
of the proceeds go to me, but I still want people to watch it because I'm very proud of
[2:45:44 - 2:45:47] ▶
that body of work and everyone that's in the credits deserves it.
[2:45:47 - 2:45:49] ▶
But, um, but I gave it to Joe Rogan and, uh, you know, really appreciate.
[2:45:49 - 2:45:54] ▶
And, uh, oh, so, you know, when we went to dinner with Joe Rogan the night before with
[2:45:55 - 2:46:00] ▶
Jacques Follet and one other guy from his team, we always great, man.
[2:46:00 - 2:46:05] ▶
We, we drank really nice wine.
[2:46:05 - 2:46:07] ▶
Oh, it was incredible meal.
[2:46:08 - 2:46:10] ▶
I was, it was wonderful.
[2:46:11 - 2:46:13] ▶
Joe is such a nice guy, man.
[2:46:13 - 2:46:15] ▶
Like just really a nice guy.
[2:46:15 - 2:46:16] ▶
You know, I don't care what anybody says about you.
[2:46:17 - 2:46:19] ▶
You meet him and you hang out with him.
[2:46:19 - 2:46:20] ▶
And super fulfilled and like humble and just kind and generous.
[2:46:23 - 2:46:27] ▶
And anyway, I got up from the meal and I went discreetly out.
[2:46:27 - 2:46:30] ▶
Like I was going to the bathroom and I paid for the meal.
[2:46:30 - 2:46:32] ▶
Oh, and it wasn't cheap.
[2:46:32 - 2:46:35] ▶
And, uh, and, and came back and he, you know, after like 20 more minutes, he's like, hey,
[2:46:35 - 2:46:42] ▶
can, you know, can we get the bill here, please?
[2:46:42 - 2:46:44] ▶
And the guy goes, it's been taken care of.
[2:46:44 - 2:46:47] ▶
And Joe looks over at me.
[2:46:47 - 2:46:49] ▶
And I got the impression, like nobody does that.
[2:46:49 - 2:46:52] ▶
Well, he was shocked.
[2:46:54 - 2:46:55] ▶
He was like, you, you know, oh my God, nobody, you know, it was like, oh, hey man, that's
[2:46:55 - 2:46:59] ▶
Um, but I gave him the t-shirt.
[2:47:02 - 2:47:04] ▶
And two or three days later, I could, everyone's blowing me up.
[2:47:05 - 2:47:09] ▶
Joe Rogan's wearing your t-shirt on his podcast.
[2:47:09 - 2:47:11] ▶
And there he was rocking the phenomenon on his podcast.
[2:47:13 - 2:47:15] ▶
You know what I mean?
[2:47:17 - 2:47:18] ▶
He just did the same with, uh, ours merch last week.
[2:47:18 - 2:47:22] ▶
And it was just so, it was so, it's so nice of him.
[2:47:22 - 2:47:25] ▶
So he has helped so many people.
[2:47:25 - 2:47:28] ▶
He's created so many careers.
[2:47:28 - 2:47:30] ▶
I'll give you an example.
[2:47:31 - 2:47:32] ▶
When I got an Uber ride, uh, when Joe, uh, Joe flew me in first class, which is incredible.
[2:47:32 - 2:47:38] ▶
Then I had a driver pick me up and the driver, he was like, oh, you're going on Joe.
[2:47:39 - 2:47:44] ▶
And I was like, oh, and he goes, let me tell you, man, I was really down on my luck and I
[2:47:45 - 2:47:50] ▶
was just, things weren't going well.
[2:47:50 - 2:47:51] ▶
And I was just really struggling.
[2:47:51 - 2:47:53] ▶
And he goes, I, I was, I was on to take Joe to someplace and I got the address wrong
[2:47:53 - 2:47:59] ▶
and I, I got him lost.
[2:47:59 - 2:48:00] ▶
And I, you know, 15 minutes longer than it should have been.
[2:48:00 - 2:48:02] ▶
And I felt terrible.
[2:48:02 - 2:48:04] ▶
He was, you know, Joe Rogan's such an important guy.
[2:48:04 - 2:48:06] ▶
And he's got all this stuff going on.
[2:48:06 - 2:48:07] ▶
And man, I felt terrible.
[2:48:07 - 2:48:08] ▶
And Joe's like, Hey man, wait here.
[2:48:08 - 2:48:10] ▶
I got to, I'll be right back.
[2:48:10 - 2:48:11] ▶
I need to go to this one location.
[2:48:11 - 2:48:12] ▶
And Joe came back and he tipped him like $2,000.
[2:48:13 - 2:48:16] ▶
He gave him some huge tip and he goes, that saved my life.
[2:48:17 - 2:48:20] ▶
I was behind on my rent.
[2:48:20 - 2:48:22] ▶
I was like really struggling financially.
[2:48:22 - 2:48:24] ▶
He goes, Joe did that for me.
[2:48:24 - 2:48:26] ▶
And I'm a random stranger, like just screwed up his, his ride.
[2:48:26 - 2:48:30] ▶
And I heard that from just about everybody that I encountered in the Austin area about
[2:48:32 - 2:48:39] ▶
how Joe would do a random act of kindness and generosity, help people.
[2:48:39 - 2:48:43] ▶
Like, no, he is like, he's like that.
[2:48:44 - 2:48:46] ▶
He called me out of the blue and was like, just super complimentary.
[2:48:46 - 2:48:50] ▶
Like, like just so nice.
[2:48:50 - 2:48:52] ▶
And, and, uh, yeah, he's so generous.
[2:48:52 - 2:48:54] ▶
I mean, there's that story of this Miss Pat, this comedian.
[2:48:57 - 2:48:59] ▶
She, uh, I think right when COVID hit or whatever was struggling or whatever.
[2:48:59 - 2:49:04] ▶
And she was like, the only guy that called me was Joe Rogan, you know?
[2:49:04 - 2:49:07] ▶
And like, yeah, he really, he really cares.
[2:49:08 - 2:49:11] ▶
And he really does sincerely care.
[2:49:12 - 2:49:14] ▶
And you hear all those stories behind the scenes of people that have had encounters with him and said nothing but nice things to say.
[2:49:14 - 2:49:20] ▶
Not nothing but nice things to say.
[2:49:20 - 2:49:22] ▶
And I say the same thing.
[2:49:22 - 2:49:23] ▶
Like I'm incredibly grateful for the exposure he's given all of us.
[2:49:23 - 2:49:27] ▶
I think he's more than anybody bent the timeline towards disclosure.
[2:49:28 - 2:49:33] ▶
And even an interest in any of this.
[2:49:33 - 2:49:35] ▶
And it allows like more, you know, I find, I think I'm sort of this niche, like, you know, compared to.
[2:49:36 - 2:49:42] ▶
Another thing that I really love about Joe is that Joe has President Trump on.
[2:49:42 - 2:49:46] ▶
Joe has Bernie Sanders on.
[2:49:46 - 2:49:47] ▶
Joe has opposing viewpoints.
[2:49:48 - 2:49:50] ▶
He's kind to everybody.
[2:49:50 - 2:49:51] ▶
Like, he gives them a platform.
[2:49:51 - 2:49:53] ▶
Cause I think like, it's so easy nowadays, like, oh, you're on the left or you're on the right or you're in the middle or you're whatever.
[2:49:53 - 2:50:00] ▶
And, you know, you're the, you're the devil.
[2:50:00 - 2:50:02] ▶
Therefore you're the devil.
[2:50:03 - 2:50:04] ▶
And I just like, that bothers me because I'm friends with all, you're cool and you're a nice person.
[2:50:04 - 2:50:11] ▶
You know what I mean?
[2:50:12 - 2:50:13] ▶
And I'm friends with people that are both sides of the spectrum.
[2:50:14 - 2:50:16] ▶
We're really close and tight.
[2:50:19 - 2:50:20] ▶
You know what I mean?
[2:50:20 - 2:50:21] ▶
Like, I don't believe in the demonizing of someone just because they have a different viewpoint than you do.
[2:50:21 - 2:50:25] ▶
That's just so wrong.
[2:50:25 - 2:50:26] ▶
And the internet allows you to do that.
[2:50:28 - 2:50:31] ▶
You, you, um, compress somebody into this 2D.
[2:50:31 - 2:50:35] ▶
You're, you're like this avatar that like, you know, you're some evil, like, you know, and you're not actually just like this full dimensional.
[2:50:36 - 2:50:44] ▶
You're a human being.
[2:50:44 - 2:50:45] ▶
Like you have a human being with like a family and like, you know, it's like, we're all, it's all good.
[2:50:45 - 2:50:49] ▶
But then none of those people would say those things to your face.
[2:50:51 - 2:50:53] ▶
It's just, it's a keyboard warrior.
[2:50:54 - 2:50:55] ▶
That's a very good point.
[2:50:55 - 2:50:56] ▶
That is a very good point.
[2:50:58 - 2:50:59] ▶
When you meet them, like, I always say like, like I've said some things very rarely and particularly not publicly, but I said, I said this, you know, to this person's face.
[2:51:00 - 2:51:11] ▶
I was like, Hey, you know, I really hurt because of X, Y, and Z. And I really appreciate it for you, you know, cause I feel like if I have an issue with anybody, I'm going to tell, say it to their face.
[2:51:11 - 2:51:21] ▶
Cause that's the way it should be.
[2:51:22 - 2:51:23] ▶
I'm not going to sit there and like, Oh, he said this.
[2:51:24 - 2:51:26] ▶
He's like, I got an issue.
[2:51:27 - 2:51:28] ▶
And we all make mistakes.
[2:51:31 - 2:51:32] ▶
I pissed people off inadvertently.
[2:51:33 - 2:51:34] ▶
You know, like, Oh shit, I'm so sorry.
[2:51:35 - 2:51:36] ▶
Or I said the wrong thing.
[2:51:37 - 2:51:38] ▶
And like, Hey, all you can do is go back and make an apology.
[2:51:38 - 2:51:40] ▶
I hope you forgive me.
[2:51:41 - 2:51:42] ▶
And nine times out of 10 people are like, you know what?
[2:51:42 - 2:51:43] ▶
Have you ever been asked to bury a story?
[2:51:52 - 2:51:55] ▶
What does that mean?
[2:51:59 - 2:52:00] ▶
Like, Hey, like, I've had like this, this meeting never happened.
[2:52:00 - 2:52:04] ▶
Uh, we don't discuss any of the details that I just gave you.
[2:52:05 - 2:52:08] ▶
And I feel like if I violated that trust, I wouldn't get in the door with these people.
[2:52:08 - 2:52:11] ▶
You know what I mean?
[2:52:12 - 2:52:13] ▶
Valuing relationships.
[2:52:13 - 2:52:14] ▶
No, I'm, I mean more like you were covering a thing independently.
[2:52:17 - 2:52:20] ▶
Somebody entered your life and said, you can't cover this.
[2:52:20 - 2:52:23] ▶
It was an aspect of the story that I got from the inside that they didn't want that
[2:52:26 - 2:52:32] ▶
aspect out as part of the story that I was covering.
[2:52:32 - 2:52:35] ▶
And I made them the promise that I wouldn't.
[2:52:35 - 2:52:37] ▶
What was that for the program?
[2:52:37 - 2:52:39] ▶
Well, earlier or later.
[2:52:46 - 2:52:47] ▶
I'm not trying to be.
[2:52:48 - 2:52:49] ▶
How did they find out?
[2:52:52 - 2:52:54] ▶
How did they find out that you were covering the thing?
[2:52:54 - 2:52:57] ▶
Oh, oh, my, my work is public.
[2:52:57 - 2:52:59] ▶
So you were like, you were starting to surface.
[2:53:01 - 2:53:03] ▶
It was a follow up on a previous thing that I'd reported on.
[2:53:03 - 2:53:06] ▶
And they were like, don't take that further.
[2:53:06 - 2:53:08] ▶
Don't, don't, don't mention that we showed you this and don't mention that we.
[2:53:08 - 2:53:11] ▶
So I said, I wouldn't.
[2:53:14 - 2:53:15] ▶
Do you want, do you think that that, if people knew that thing, that would move the
[2:53:17 - 2:53:21] ▶
needle as far as overall disclosure?
[2:53:21 - 2:53:24] ▶
Uh, no, no, not really.
[2:53:24 - 2:53:28] ▶
Um, I, I think the, uh, I think the Holman landing footage exists and I've talked to a
[2:53:29 - 2:53:38] ▶
I didn't, when I first heard about it, I was like, come on, the landing contact, please.
[2:53:39 - 2:53:44] ▶
You know, uh, but now I'm convinced the Holman did happen.
[2:53:47 - 2:53:49] ▶
And I think that would obviously move the needle, particularly if you know.
[2:53:49 - 2:53:52] ▶
Why are you convinced?
[2:53:52 - 2:53:53] ▶
Well, because I was investigating Socorro and that happened in 64, April 24th, 1964.
[2:53:53 - 2:54:01] ▶
And in the process, I spent five years investigating that case on and off.
[2:54:01 - 2:54:05] ▶
I met with Ray Stanford, RIP, uh, who was the, one of the lead investigators wrote the
[2:54:05 - 2:54:10] ▶
book, Socorro's Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry.
[2:54:10 - 2:54:12] ▶
And in the process of investigating, I was reading all the articles.
[2:54:12 - 2:54:15] ▶
I went to the house.
[2:54:15 - 2:54:16] ▶
I went to the house.
[2:54:16 - 2:54:17] ▶
I befriended his wife, Mary, daughter, son, Michael.
[2:54:17 - 2:54:21] ▶
I'm reading, I'm going through all the newspaper clippings.
[2:54:21 - 2:54:23] ▶
I'm going to the national archives.
[2:54:23 - 2:54:25] ▶
I mean, I'm really, I'm doing a deep dive into that case because my God, it's a very
[2:54:25 - 2:54:29] ▶
And I came upon a couple of articles, uh, coincidentally, haphazardly, you know, written
[2:54:30 - 2:54:35] ▶
by a Corral Lorenzen of the UA UFO bulletin.
[2:54:35 - 2:54:39] ▶
I think it was called.
[2:54:39 - 2:54:40] ▶
And, um, she had talked about, uh, this landing at Holman.
[2:54:40 - 2:54:45] ▶
She interviewed someone that was in an airplane that witnessed it.
[2:54:45 - 2:54:47] ▶
And someone that was on the ground at the base that witnessed it, both military officials.
[2:54:47 - 2:54:51] ▶
And apparently she was a respected journalist.
[2:54:51 - 2:54:54] ▶
And, and I was like, Hmm, this is interesting.
[2:54:54 - 2:54:57] ▶
It seemed like this is an original, you know, article.
[2:54:57 - 2:54:59] ▶
And I was looking at it like, Hmm.
[2:54:59 - 2:55:01] ▶
And that led me to, uh, Bob, uh, uh, come on.
[2:55:01 - 2:55:06] ▶
Uh, the two guys that made the film, uh, UFOs past, present and future, Emma Nager and
[2:55:06 - 2:55:12] ▶
Alan Sandler and Emma Nager in particular.
[2:55:12 - 2:55:14] ▶
And then of course that led me to Colonel William Coleman, who had that dramatic encounter,
[2:55:14 - 2:55:19] ▶
uh, with UFO and B 55 over Alabama.
[2:55:19 - 2:55:22] ▶
But also he was later on part of project blue book.
[2:55:22 - 2:55:24] ▶
He was public spokesman for the, for the Pentagon during the time the film was being made.
[2:55:24 - 2:55:28] ▶
And I started poking around and started as a side investigation.
[2:55:28 - 2:55:31] ▶
I started to look into the landing case that they kind of, um, put forth as a concept
[2:55:31 - 2:55:36] ▶
that may, uh, something that might've happened already that maybe it would happen in the future
[2:55:36 - 2:55:40] ▶
in their film. Right. And, uh, and then that led me to, uh, to do Emma Nager who talked with the guy,
[2:55:40 - 2:55:49] ▶
Paul Schartle, who was at the archive process, the film of the landing, talked about it in great detail.
[2:55:49 - 2:55:56] ▶
I interviewed Bob Emma Nager, which I'm going to release for free.
[2:55:56 - 2:55:59] ▶
All my archives coming up soon. I just been so busy.
[2:55:59 - 2:56:02] ▶
I digitized them all and they're all digitized.
[2:56:02 - 2:56:04] ▶
Now I just have to go through them and edit them.
[2:56:04 - 2:56:06] ▶
And I'm going to, and I'm going to put them all out there for free for everybody.
[2:56:06 - 2:56:09] ▶
Um, uh, but anyway, and, and based on that, and then Alan Sandler was shown the footage by Paul Schartle.
[2:56:09 - 2:56:14] ▶
He's convinced that it was a real flying saucer. No question about it.
[2:56:14 - 2:56:18] ▶
Three came in over the base, two peeled away, one came down and landed.
[2:56:18 - 2:56:21] ▶
And he goes, James, just like in a, in a sci-fi movie, there was no, there was like a, a seamless door that just opened and dropped.
[2:56:21 - 2:56:29] ▶
Alan Sandler happens to think that it was our technology in this, whenever it was shown to him in the seventies.
[2:56:29 - 2:56:35] ▶
I think he was shown it in 72, 73, but it was taken in the sixties.
[2:56:35 - 2:56:40] ▶
I believe is what Paul Schartle said.
[2:56:40 - 2:56:42] ▶
Um, and, uh, he thinks it was our technology, our flying saucers that we had, and they dress people up to look like aliens as a staged event.
[2:56:42 - 2:56:51] ▶
But he goes, it wasn't doctored. It was a real flying saucer that really flew.
[2:56:51 - 2:56:56] ▶
And that really came down and landed over the base.
[2:56:56 - 2:56:59] ▶
And it was filmed on a tripod, which means they anticipated it coming.
[2:56:59 - 2:57:02] ▶
Cause you don't have a tripod camera sitting on tripod unless they're filming something else unrelated.
[2:57:02 - 2:57:06] ▶
And then the event happened either that or they just saw it happening because I asked those details.
[2:57:06 - 2:57:11] ▶
And he said they were met with a bunch of, uh, military base commanders in uniform, got into a Jeep off.
[2:57:11 - 2:57:17] ▶
They went discs to sat there on the ground.
[2:57:17 - 2:57:19] ▶
And then the film footage ends.
[2:57:19 - 2:57:21] ▶
He thinks it was staged.
[2:57:21 - 2:57:22] ▶
He thinks it was a real disc, real technology, real flying saucer that really flew in the sixties.
[2:57:22 - 2:57:28] ▶
And that it was, uh, that's what he thinks.
[2:57:28 - 2:57:30] ▶
Why is he, why does he think that?
[2:57:30 - 2:57:31] ▶
I guess it was hard for him to imagine that real aliens.
[2:57:33 - 2:57:35] ▶
I don't, I really don't know.
[2:57:35 - 2:57:36] ▶
But he said that they had.
[2:57:37 - 2:57:38] ▶
Big noses, slits for mouths.
[2:57:41 - 2:57:42] ▶
And some sort of device that they assumed would have been a communication device.
[2:57:47 - 2:57:50] ▶
But if he's saying that, is that like, were there makeup artists involved?
[2:57:51 - 2:57:55] ▶
Evidently there would have been according to him.
[2:57:56 - 2:57:58] ▶
But they dressed them up in Egyptian.
[2:57:58 - 2:57:59] ▶
Evidently there was like bullshit.
[2:57:59 - 2:58:01] ▶
That was a real event.
[2:58:01 - 2:58:02] ▶
It was an extraterrestrial.
[2:58:02 - 2:58:04] ▶
Paul Shartle who had the footage, who processed the footage at Norton Air Force Base, absolutely
[2:58:04 - 2:58:08] ▶
to his death, said that was a real event.
[2:58:08 - 2:58:11] ▶
And then of course I'm talking to other people that have subsequently, since then, particularly
[2:58:11 - 2:58:16] ▶
he's come out with it.
[2:58:16 - 2:58:17] ▶
Eric Davis said that, uh, either he was told about it.
[2:58:17 - 2:58:21] ▶
President Bush was either, senior, was either told about it or shown it.
[2:58:21 - 2:58:25] ▶
Eric Davis said that he talked to President Bush about it.
[2:58:28 - 2:58:29] ▶
I know there's some relation there, but I don't know.
[2:58:29 - 2:58:31] ▶
As head of the CIA, he was made aware of it accidentally.
[2:58:31 - 2:58:34] ▶
And that's how he became aware of it.
[2:58:35 - 2:58:36] ▶
But I don't know if he was shown it.
[2:58:36 - 2:58:37] ▶
Eric Davis would know.
[2:58:37 - 2:58:38] ▶
Well, we could go back and forth all day, man.
[2:58:40 - 2:58:42] ▶
I love talking to you and you're such a treasure trove of deep knowledge when it comes
[2:58:42 - 2:58:47] ▶
to UFOs and inspiration for it.
[2:58:47 - 2:58:48] ▶
I don't really feel like that.
[2:58:48 - 2:58:50] ▶
I know what I know talking directly to witnesses around the world and that's it, but you have
[2:58:50 - 2:58:55] ▶
a much deeper understanding of so many of the complexities and intricacies from what
[2:58:55 - 2:58:59] ▶
And I respect that, but it's great.
[2:59:00 - 2:59:01] ▶
We compliment each other.
[2:59:01 - 2:59:02] ▶
I don't know anything, man.
[2:59:03 - 2:59:04] ▶
I know less than I did when I, it's the more you know, the less you know.
[2:59:05 - 2:59:09] ▶
And the more questions you have.
[2:59:10 - 2:59:12] ▶
The weirder it gets, you expect it to neatly collapse into, oh, it's like either all man-made,
[2:59:12 - 2:59:19] ▶
you know, anti-gravity vehicles plus, plus MK ultra or whatever.
[2:59:19 - 2:59:24] ▶
And then you go, or, or it's just these beings and they're like from this specific place
[2:59:25 - 2:59:28] ▶
And it's like, I haven't gotten either of those.
[2:59:29 - 2:59:31] ▶
Like it just keeps getting weirder and weirder as I'm sure you've experienced.
[2:59:31 - 2:59:34] ▶
And so please, you know, don't put me in that position.
[2:59:34 - 2:59:37] ▶
Go out under the night sky in the remote desert and look up and just realize just how vast
[2:59:37 - 2:59:44] ▶
the known universe is.
[2:59:44 - 2:59:45] ▶
And the possibilities of life.
[2:59:46 - 2:59:48] ▶
One of the things we covered in Out of the Blue very early on was like the equations
[2:59:48 - 2:59:53] ▶
of the possibilities of life in the universe.
[2:59:53 - 2:59:56] ▶
And it's like a hundred percent, like it just comes out at a hundred.
[2:59:56 - 2:59:59] ▶
There was that book written by Amir Exel, Probability One, years ago, back in the nineties,
[2:59:59 - 3:00:05] ▶
you know, and it was like mathematically, we are not alone.
[3:00:05 - 3:00:08] ▶
Look at the, you know, come on.
[3:00:08 - 3:00:10] ▶
Could be all of you.
[3:00:11 - 3:00:12] ▶
And life is bizarre.
[3:00:12 - 3:00:13] ▶
Life is absurd and bizarre.
[3:00:13 - 3:00:15] ▶
Consciousness itself is weird.
[3:00:15 - 3:00:17] ▶
Nobody can, you know, has a great answer for that.
[3:00:19 - 3:00:21] ▶
And, uh, I think the framing of disclosure, it's both exciting because maybe we're on the
[3:00:21 - 3:00:26] ▶
precipice of this, you know, big reveal, but it's also kind of a misnomer because I think,
[3:00:26 - 3:00:32] ▶
you know, per the messages that maybe a lot of these beings seem to transmit, we're in
[3:00:32 - 3:00:37] ▶
more of a position ourselves to know the truth than we might realize.
[3:00:37 - 3:00:41] ▶
And I don't think the government has monopoly on an understanding of metaphysics.
[3:00:41 - 3:00:46] ▶
I do think they have asymmetric understanding of maybe some technology and they might have
[3:00:46 - 3:00:51] ▶
some more materials and might have some more footage and concrete evidence than civilians
[3:00:51 - 3:00:55] ▶
But the idea that they have some sort of like ontological understanding of the universe that
[3:00:56 - 3:01:00] ▶
like, you know, people can't achieve without them giving that info.
[3:01:00 - 3:01:06] ▶
Let's, let's get the info.
[3:01:07 - 3:01:08] ▶
But it's also like a low agency thing.
[3:01:09 - 3:01:11] ▶
You know, it's like, we can, we can do it ourselves too.
[3:01:11 - 3:01:13] ▶
And, and, and anyone can understand this stuff if they reach for it.
[3:01:13 - 3:01:18] ▶
So I don't know, or, or, or understand it or, or, or, or, uh, understand more of it.
[3:01:18 - 3:01:24] ▶
You know, the one that you pull on one thread, you get like three more in its place, but, you
[3:01:24 - 3:01:28] ▶
know, I think we can ascend much greater to much greater heights kind of intellectually than,
[3:01:28 - 3:01:33] ▶
you know, we give ourselves credit for one little thing.
[3:01:33 - 3:01:36] ▶
You got some gummy bears, some James Fox gummy bears.
[3:01:37 - 3:01:41] ▶
I just got this little, just what, you know.
[3:01:41 - 3:01:42] ▶
Speaking of which my swag.
[3:01:46 - 3:01:47] ▶
But, uh, I want to thank you for having me on.
[3:01:49 - 3:01:50] ▶
I want to thank you for all your support.
[3:01:50 - 3:01:51] ▶
I really appreciate it.
[3:01:51 - 3:01:52] ▶
I really, I really mean that.
[3:01:53 - 3:01:54] ▶
No, it's an honor to get to know you and, and, um, yeah, really, uh, you know, ride
[3:01:54 - 3:01:59] ▶
in your, your wake that you've created, you know, aerodynamically.
[3:01:59 - 3:02:02] ▶
Hey, we're all in this together.
[3:02:03 - 3:02:04] ▶
We all make our contribution.
[3:02:04 - 3:02:06] ▶
What's the, what's the, it's moment of contact.
[3:02:09 - 3:02:11] ▶
New, new revelations of alien encounters.
[3:02:11 - 3:02:14] ▶
We did a complete, cause we really felt like I felt like, you know, processing, you got
[3:02:15 - 3:02:20] ▶
all the congressional hearings.
[3:02:20 - 3:02:21] ▶
And then like, I think about mainstream, I think about skeptics.
[3:02:22 - 3:02:25] ▶
It's very healthy to be skeptical, but I think about trying to process like those allegations
[3:02:26 - 3:02:31] ▶
made under oath by garage and blue and.
[3:02:31 - 3:02:33] ▶
And blue and all, all the others, um, of crash retrievals and live aliens and biologics.
[3:02:33 - 3:02:41] ▶
So I kind of like took the first 20 minutes completely new condensed those, those hearings,
[3:02:42 - 3:02:47] ▶
as you saw, condense those hearings.
[3:02:47 - 3:02:49] ▶
And then, Hey, you know what?
[3:02:49 - 3:02:51] ▶
As extraordinary as it sounds, it's not the first time.
[3:02:51 - 3:02:54] ▶
And I give really quick examples of various, you know, Magenta.
[3:02:54 - 3:02:57] ▶
We, you know, Roswell very quickly.
[3:02:58 - 3:02:59] ▶
I don't get bogged down in those old cases, but boom, boom, boom.
[3:02:59 - 3:03:02] ▶
You know, Kecksburg, uh, uh, Kingman, um, the landing at Bentwaters, just really good statements
[3:03:02 - 3:03:10] ▶
of craft landing up landing or crash on the ground.
[3:03:10 - 3:03:12] ▶
And then, but the best case, you know, and then we do a deep dive into Virginia with all
[3:03:12 - 3:03:17] ▶
the new testimony from two forensic pathologists, from the chief of police, new crash witness,
[3:03:17 - 3:03:23] ▶
plus the lead neurosurgeon at regional hospital.
[3:03:23 - 3:03:26] ▶
And none of these people are coming forward in this new cut.
[3:03:26 - 3:03:29] ▶
No one is coming forward anonymously.
[3:03:29 - 3:03:31] ▶
They're putting their names, their reputations, their faces out there for the whole world to see.
[3:03:31 - 3:03:36] ▶
Yeah. Well, thank God they did.
[3:03:36 - 3:03:38] ▶
And thank God you went out there and got the footage and keep going back there.
[3:03:38 - 3:03:42] ▶
And yeah, it's just, uh, it's an honor to speak with you.
[3:03:42 - 3:03:46] ▶
Go watch this movie.
[3:03:46 - 3:03:47] ▶
Cause I think it's going to be, I think it's gonna be earth shattering, especially watching Italo Ventarelli,
[3:03:47 - 3:03:54] ▶
this neurosurgeon, just his revelation just feels so important.
[3:03:54 - 3:03:59] ▶
This, this, this testimony of being face to face with an alien being for that long.
[3:03:59 - 3:04:04] ▶
I'm told it's the first time in history.
[3:04:04 - 3:04:06] ▶
Like, you know, we never had with Roswell, right?
[3:04:06 - 3:04:08] ▶
We didn't have it with the gender on any of these other cases where we have,
[3:04:08 - 3:04:11] ▶
We don't have video of, you know, of these.
[3:04:11 - 3:04:14] ▶
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously it would be great to get the ultimate prize. Right.
[3:04:14 - 3:04:17] ▶
I mean, no, no, no, but you have video of him.
[3:04:17 - 3:04:19] ▶
And he, and he's still alive now.
[3:04:20 - 3:04:22] ▶
He's still alive. He's like, I, I asked him, would you put your hand in a Bible?
[3:04:22 - 3:04:26] ▶
Would you testify? You know, would you take a light?
[3:04:26 - 3:04:28] ▶
Yes. All the above. Yes.
[3:04:28 - 3:04:30] ▶
And now the whole entire doctor medical community in the region are all supporting him, getting behind him.
[3:04:30 - 3:04:36] ▶
And I'm told there are other doctors that are considering when the time is right to come forward.
[3:04:36 - 3:04:40] ▶
So we're at the beginning of the beginning. I'm, I'm, I'm quite honestly very excited about it and we'll see how it's received.
[3:04:40 - 3:04:49] ▶
Yeah. Well, let's hope your dream becomes a reality.
[3:04:49 - 3:04:51] ▶
And if somebody slips a thumb drive, that's real in your pocket.
[3:04:51 - 3:04:55] ▶
Oh, believe me. I'm trying.
[3:04:55 - 3:04:56] ▶
Maybe it goes down in a, in a, in a way that's more manageable for you. I don't know, but I'm trying, even if it gets out there. And by the way, I'm going to make this abundantly clear. Unless I have to, if somebody gives me the footage, I'm giving it away for free. I'm not going to charge a dime for it.
[3:04:56 - 3:05:12] ▶
I love that. If I have to pay for it, I'll have to recoup my investment to pay those people back and then I'll put it out there for free. But if I get it, I'll give it to the world for free. I swear on my, unless I have to pay for it, reimburse the investors. Yeah. Then I'll reimburse it and then I'll put it out there for free. Yeah. Yeah. Go to jamesfox.com. It's behind a paywall.
[3:05:12 - 3:05:31] ▶
No, that won't happen. I promise. No, I think that's the right attitude along with like, you know, wanting other people to follow up on your research. And you're, you're the paradigmatic example of that. Cause you're having a Mar who's a good friend of mine and kind of. Such a cool guy. Yeah. The best. And he's kind of a correspondent for the show, but he's kind of, I think he's going to start his own thing. Yeah. I hope. And, um, he's going to go get some amazing footage with you. And so you've been so welcoming to me and him as far as.
[3:05:31 - 3:06:01] ▶
You know, come with me. And. Oh yeah. That's not normal in the space. So this, uh, there's, there are a lot of people, you know, they call it. It's like, I want to get the quote unquote scoop. Yeah. And like, I'll even see like, I'll cover a thing and then somebody will try to like front run the thing. It's like, and I'm always like, great, good. You cover it too. We'll both cover it. That's like whatever. Yeah. Power in numbers. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, we, you know, so I appreciate you. And, um, this was, this was amazing, man. And, uh, I'm excited to, to do this and hopefully do this many more times. Thank you, brother. All right. Thank you, Gene.
[3:06:01 - 3:06:30] ▶
Over the last couple of months, we've been designing the new American Alchemy merch drop, and I'm excited to say that the 2025 winner drop is finally ready. We now have 30 uniquely designed pieces that really reflect what American Alchemy is all about.
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This drop includes epic t-shirts, long sleeves, crewnecks, hoodies, tapered sweatpants, hats, totes, mugs, and tumblers. The Fukushima Japan pieces, for example, have detailed left chest embroidery. The Morning of Earth designs went through multiple revisions to get the fit exactly right. And the Iron Horse tee is something I think will be a hit for anyone who loved the UFO cowboy or our atomic age shirts from our last drop.
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We cut a lot of things that didn't meet our standards, and we're really, really proud of each of these items. Everything is pretty limited, so there's no endless restocks. Once it's gone, it's entirely gone. If you missed anything from our original drops and you want to go out and represent, now's the time to go grab something. So go to AmericanAlchemyMerch.com to check it all out.
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We'll see you next time.
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