241 segments
When you talk about classified information,
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a big part of what makes it classified
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is that it cannot be released to the public.
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Either because of how the public will react
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or because of how your enemies,
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or how your enemies for lack of a better word
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would be able to, what they'd be able to learn
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from you from that information.
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So there's two reasons why you don't release that information.
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You don't know how the public's gonna react
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and you also don't want any of your enemies
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to get access to the information that you have.
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I think the big turning point happened,
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at least it happened for me in 2021,
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when the Office of the Director of National Intelligence
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had to create an assessment on UAPs and UFOs
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Prior to that, it always been a big question mark.
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Did CIA ever actually participate in any of this stuff?
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It was a question mark.
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After that report was released,
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after that assessment was released to Congress,
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there were tranches of documents that were declassified,
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that were previously classified.
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Why were they classified?
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Either because of what the public would do with them
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or with our enemies would do with them.
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Right, that's why they were classified before.
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Now they're declassified.
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And they're clearly CIA documents,
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DOD documents, FBI documents, NSA documents
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going back as far as the 1970s and before,
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talking about collection efforts from China
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and from Russia and from all over Europe,
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French, Jent, and German collection,
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looking into UAPs and UFOs.
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That means the governments were spending real money
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to collect these secrets.
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Our government was spending real money collecting
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and classifying these secrets
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and that all was released to the public in 2021
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through that first tranche of reporting for the UAP task force.
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And now there's only more of an appetite from Congress
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to continue to dig into that.
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They're concerned because they want to make sure
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the skies above our country are safe,
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safe for commercial airlines,
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safe for national security reasons, et cetera, et cetera.
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But that doesn't negate the fact
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that there was real classified information
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about research into these topics
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that we were never made privy to.
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I understand how significant something has to be
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to classify it and keep it a secret.
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So the fact that money and time and trained officers
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went into that collection effort for 50 years
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makes me that much more interested in being one
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of those officers that gets a chance to research it
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did you ever have access to let's say government secrets
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that were so big that humanity could never find out about it?
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Humanity is too big of a word.
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So I would say I have never had access to anything
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that would impact humanity.
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I have absolutely had access to secrets
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that would impact how the American public would respond.
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What do you mean by that?
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Meaning the roles that I filled,
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the operations that I participated in
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were operations that were relevant and impactful to Americans.
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They were relevant and impactful to other countries as well,
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but never humanity as a whole, right?
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Meaning it could change the narrative
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on how Americans view certain foreign conflicts
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in the world if they found out about it.
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So as an example, Henry Kissinger,
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who was a famous politician under Nixon,
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the man who kind of brokered diplomacy between the United States
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and China, communist China, after Mao Zedong took over.
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Now is that working out?
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Yeah, but Henry Kissinger is still alive.
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It's like 101 years old, I think this year.
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Fucking guy won't die.
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And he just did an interview for the economist
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a UK-based newspaper, a UK-based news source.
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And in that news report and that interview that he did,
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he very openly discussed how the best path forward
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for the United States and China is for both countries
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to start a systematic approach of lying to their people.
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He said that he's had this publicly.
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Yeah, he said that in the interview.
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That what should happen is the United States
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and China should create secret advisory panels
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that coordinate with each other
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to de-conflict and de-escalate the conflict.
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But at the same time, public facing advisors
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should continue the same narrative
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and tell the people whatever they have been telling them
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for the last 15 years.
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So that you could essentially keep,
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you could protect and insulate the governments
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from looking like they're changing their approach
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So then public outrage doesn't happen,
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but you also have a way of avoiding immediate conflict.
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The reason I say this is not because I think
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Henry Kissinger is wrong or I don't think he's evil.
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But I do think that what happened is in a moment
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of unique transparency.
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I'd put it, a trained diplomat has now told publicly,
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even though it was just in one article
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and in one new source, but it's cited to Henry Kissinger,
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he's basically shared that that is how governments work.
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They will lie to their people.
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There is strategic value in governments lying to their people
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because they want to keep the people calm.
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They want to keep the people controlled.
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They want to keep the people satisfied.
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Even though they know that they have to find a way
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to get real answers and real progress made
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in issues of conflict.
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What he's talking about right there,
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at least the way I hear that, is that whole keeping the public
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on a certain narrative, I think you use the word
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so that you might not set up rise,
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but they don't freak out or something like that.
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It implies that this is a way to make sure
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that powerful politicians are able to keep their roles.
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Just like your friend, the Congress lady,
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who said, I'm not going to go and talk about,
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talk about term limits up there, I don't want to do that.
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And you're like, why?
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You just asked me what I want you to do.
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People didn't hear that story, but that's what happens.
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And it seems like a guy, I mean,
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that guy is a fucking live in fossil.
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And he's still relevant as hell.
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If that doesn't show you the people hold on
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to powerful positions and staying power
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over maybe even the overall good,
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because what he's saying is he's trying to,
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like to give him some credit here,
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he's trying to promote like, hey, let's not actually,
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like let's chill, let's not fight.
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But the way he's doing it is not the simple way
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of just coming out and saying, yo guys, let's not fight
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and not worry about how the voters then vote.
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He's doing it by trying to protect how the voters then vote.
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So he's doing it underhanded.
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And how Chinese nationals interpret
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their relationship with Xi Jinping as well.
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Because he's saying both countries
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should maintain the status quo
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and maintain the public narrative that they've set forth.
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So that neither country looks like it's backing down
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from the other country, right?
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He wants both China and the United States
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to continue looking strong in the eyes of their own people.
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But that's just the public facing narrative.
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In actuality, they would have secret advisory boards
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that work together, similar to what happened
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in the Cuban Missile Crisis to de-escalate
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and avoid future conflict.
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This is wise diplomacy.
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We're making them sweat over there.
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And so guys, what you're here for?
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This is wise diplomacy,
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but it's not what people are used to
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anticipating or what people,
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it's a validation of the suspicion
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that people have about the way government controls information.
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Yeah, because you had said that before,
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when we had talked like,
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talking about why you left the CIA and stuff,
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I think it had something to do with,
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they lie, because they have to,
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and you were like, that's why I left.
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But like at the same time, like,
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to be honest, what did you expect?
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I didn't leave because the CIA lied.
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I left for personal reasons.
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I left because they wanted me essentially
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to choose my service with CIA above my family.
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Yes, there was that, but there was the other side
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to it that you had talked about.
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Right, and then when I got out,
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I realized that the same techniques they taught us
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to manipulate our targets and our assets
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was the same technique that they were using
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to motivate us through our career as well.
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Right, and now I'm not trying.
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And then I realized I was being lied to
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and I was being manipulated.
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Just like I was trained to lie to manipulate assets,
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and that didn't feel good.
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Regardless, that was just validation after I left
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that it was a good idea to leave.
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But the point is still the same, right?
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There are huge, huge groups of people in the United States
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that believe the government is actively lying to them,
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that believe information is intentionally being
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withheld from them, and that believe
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that they should be told in full transparency what's happening.
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And that's where they're wrong.
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I understand that, yeah.
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Correct, and that's where they're wrong, right?
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The fact that we have individual rights to privacy,
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right, every American has a right to privacy,
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means you have a right to keep your secrets.
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We have to understand that the government
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has the right to keep its own secrets too.
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Just because you are an American
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doesn't mean the government has to be honest
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or open or transparent with you, right?
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Part of the trade off in this relationship
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is that you trust the government and they protect you.
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That's kind of how it works.
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And that's frankly how it should work
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because the last thing I want is to have my government
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paralyzed because the 180 million adults in the United States
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can't reach a consensus on what they want the government to do.
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I kind of like the fact that we're a representative republic.
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Even though for all the flaws
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and for all the challenges that we have,
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we're way better off than some
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of the authoritarian countries out there.
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