726 segments
This is Stanton Friedman.
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I'm a nuclear physicist with a very strong interest in flying saucers.
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I'm in Kansas City, Missouri, July 24, 1991.
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I'm here to do an interview with Gerald Anderson.
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A very important witness with regard to recovery of a crash flying saucer in New Mexico in July 1947.
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We have just had a visit with a holographic examiner who says he has seen no evidence of deceptions after spending several hours of my self and Gerald.
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I'll sleep with Gerald.
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A full report will be forthcoming.
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So with that, we will talk to Gerald Anderson.
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Just take your name please.
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My name is Gerald Anderson.
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Where were you born and went?
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I was born October 4, 1941, and in that was in the end.
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Give me a summary of what happened in 1947 with regard to a crash flying saucer in New Mexico.
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We had just moved to Alcurtin, Mexico, on July 4, 1947.
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This was approximately the day before we went out on the plane to Santa Augustine with my uncle Ted, my cousin Victor, my father, my brother Glenn and myself.
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We drove down to the Plains of Santa Augustine, which is west of Sacorra, in Mexico and the Magdalena Dattel area.
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We were down there looking for banded in Moss Aguil, which according to my uncle Ted, my cousin Victor was a permanent in the area.
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My brother, my mother, my sister, rock had, and wanted to get some of this.
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It was a way of showing us around the area. They had relatives down in Magdalena.
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They wanted to do an business too.
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So we had gone down there and we got down in the horse springs area and had driven off onto the plains down an old, redded road for a mile or so.
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And it seemed like a long ways. We parked the car, got out of the car and walked down the hillside of the semi forest.
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As you can see, it had a pinion trees and a scrub oak and stuff like that on it.
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We walked up, well that scrubbed the seagr. And walked down the hillside into an arroyo, a dry wash.
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And it walked south down the dry wash toward where the agates were supposed to be at.
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And as we came around a bend in the arroyo that had a pinion and a seagrass growing on, we were able to see farther ahead down the arroyo.
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On the next ridge line, there was a large silver disc shape object, was embedded in the side of the ridge line.
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And there was debris in and wreckage and stuff, but it was string about the area.
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Mainly this thing was intact. I would estimate it sized from an adult perspective to be something like 35 feet in diameter.
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I've heard other people who were there say they thought it was like 50 feet, but as an adult I would say about 35 feet in diameter.
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Quite large. When we got up to it, there were four bodies there, not human.
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There were two of them who were obviously dead. One of them was obviously very badly injured.
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And one of them apparently, in separate nobel effects, were a dead and appeared in the injured.
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And it was handled as a toy, it was mobile. And we were just sitting there next to the one that was still alive and appeared in the people.
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Were they right next to the vehicle, right next to it, right under the edge of it?
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And this craft had apparently come in from the east, bounced off one ridge line, went plowing through this rollover area and then crashed into the ridge line and embedded itself.
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And they were sitting back under the edge, it was kind of tilted up like this, and they were sitting back under the edge here.
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And I'm assuming that this one creature that was all right had laid this material on the ground, but it looked like unrolled tinfoil that these other three creatures were laying on it, like you do a person in shock and put it on a blanket and kind of a thing.
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And apparently it had some boxes there around it and had apparently been trying to give for a stator help these other creatures around when we first got there.
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And as we approached the creature, you're back like this, like it was in fear of it, like we were going to hurt it.
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And it wasn't very long, you know, trying to communicate with the adults where it seemed to calm down and just set there and kind of look back and forth watching him, apparently trying to figure out what was going on.
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What did it look like a little bit on these creatures all of them were all about four foot tall or four and a half feet tall.
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They had very large heads that were shaped larger on the top and they kind of tapered down, not to a real sharp point, but just tapered down where they were thin.
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They had very large, very large oval shape or almond shape, I guess you could say black eyes that had, they were so shiny, they had almost a blueish tint to them when the light reflected off them.
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Their skin coloration, I think the best way I can describe that is kind of a blueish tinted milky white.
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It looked like someone in shock and the ones that were laying on the ground really, really looked more that way, more blue, like it looked like.
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How about ears, nose, mouth?
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No, there was no visible ears on the creatures except like if you were just to cover your ear like this, to where there was just a riser and then a hole without your ear lobe and the rest of the ear there.
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The nose was very, very small, almost imperceptible and just like two holes straight in and the lips were just a straight line, it was like a cut and you couldn't see any visible lips like we had or it was just a slit.
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What ever felt it sound? Part of what hair color? There was no hair, it was completely bold.
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And no sound? I never heard the sound of one, not any of the creatures.
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Including the one that was in it. In just see fingers?
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Yeah, they had fingers like this, they didn't have a little finger, they just had the thumb, had three extra digits except the center digit was longer and the other two were about the same size.
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They were very long and slender, it looked very delicate and I've made the statement before and I'll make it again I think it would have made an excellent violinist because of the structure of their hands.
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They were wearing one piece sits, all of them were dressed exactly the same and it was sort of a real shiny silverish gray color.
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Those zippers buttons? No, I saw it, no zippers, no buttons.
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The only thing that was different, you know, they all had this but the only thing that was different from me, the silvery gray thing.
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The same one, it was a seam on a shoulder and around the collar was trimmed in what appeared to be more like corny.
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The suits were continuous for their foot year. You could see right about this area down it seemed to be less pliable that it was a skirt area like the boots or shoes or something.
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But they were all dressed exactly the same. Okay, so you and your family are talking back and forth, wondering what was going on, what did your family say?
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Well, my brother, one of the first remarks I heard he made was, that's a goddamn spaceship.
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There was bodies up there and I was told not to go up there, which I did.
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How old was your brother at the time? He was in his early 20s, I think, 20-20 months.
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He was a lot older than you were. Oh yes, considerably.
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When we got out there, I kind of me entered off the one side, the same was cocked up.
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I was standing here, the bodies were here and everybody else was kind of down here, he said my cousin Victor was over here playing and looking in this gaping old one inside of this disc.
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It shaped just like a discus, except for a round dome was up on top and it was this big gaping gash and where you could see inside and look like a double haul.
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How big length? The dome? Well, it covered a greater majority from the center of the craft.
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It was just like a gaping hole in there. I was thinking about 35 feet diameter, so we're talking about 17 feet maybe.
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Most of that one side was ripped open like that. You could see inside and you could see another double haul.
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There was these rows of components that was on there and there was lights that flashed on some of them or studies some were flashing.
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There was a lot of debris and stuff hanging out of the hole. There was evidence that there had apparently been fired, it looked like it had been burnt along the edge there.
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The gash. Now this wasn't a gash that could have been caused by the thing coming into the ground. It wasn't at the leading edge of the vehicle.
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No, no, this was inside like it almost appeared it was elliptical. It almost appeared as if something the same shape as the disc we were looking at had hit that, that same, you know, it had hit the disc and left it imprinted pretty closely approximated the outside diameter of the disc itself.
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And it appeared to be K-Denward. And kind of like if they just crumpled that K-Den and ripped it open.
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Okay, so you're there. You take all this and everybody's mystified. What were the circumstances outside? Hot, cold, very, very hot, and credible to me.
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Being the first time in New Mexico and coming back used to that dry heat was just like being outside of it. It was unbelievable to me.
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And that was the odd part about this. And closer you got to it, the cooler it was. And standing under it in the shade there, next to these creatures' bodies it was like refrigerated air conditioning.
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And did you feel air coming out of this thing? No, it was just like it was ambidia. And I remember reaching up and putting my hand on the side of it, I think I was afraid I was going to hit my head because there was enough room for me as a small child, you know.
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I was probably the same size of these creatures to walk up under there and stand there, but I kind of did like that put my hand up against this thing.
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What did you feel? It was ice cold, it felt like it just came out of a freezer. Was it smooth? It was very smooth. It had a very smooth texture too. It was obviously made out of metal, it was very solid and it was very cold, ice cold.
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And there was a smell in the area, a smell volatile, aacrid like acetone. And that seemed to be coming out of that gash that smell.
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But the closer you got to this thing, the cooler it was. So I kind of remained there and I guess while they were over here my father and my uncle Ted and my brother and Uncle Ted was trying to talk to this thing in Spanish.
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And of course it didn't understand what he said and dad tried to talk to them and they tried you know, sign language and that didn't work.
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And I don't know for some reason I just, I reached down and touched it, just when it was laying next to me. And when I touched it, I realized, you know, I jumped back, it scared me and startled me because I suddenly realized that these weren't dolls.
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I thought they were plastic dolls and I was still in my mind, these are moving dolls until I touched it and I realized, you know, this was a dead thing.
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And I'd seen dead relatives before and I unfortunately had made a mistake one time in touching their relatives and I was cascading and I just knew this was a dead thing.
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And it scared me and I ran around behind my father and my uncle. And the thing was sitting there on the ground and it kept looking back and forth and I just had its hands like it's laughing and just kept looking back and forth between the three of them and like it was trying to understand.
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And all of a sudden it just turned and looked right, it's created me between my uncle and my uncle and myself.
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And this is when there was just like an explosion of things in my head, things I started, you know, feeling just terrible depression, loneliness, fear and just, you know, awful, awful feelings that just suddenly burst into my mind.
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And I don't know if that meant that it was communicating with me and I was going to go in there and communicate with because I was a kid, I don't know.
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I turned and ran and I ran across the Eroya and up on the area that had bounced off of during the crash.
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And I was just standing and looking down at the scene, you know, my family and often additions like I could see cattle grazing, I could see a windmill and you could see dust trails, I don't know, I don't know, planes out there.
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And how I was there for a while and then I came back down and I guess we were there, you know, Victor was in, when I got back down there, Victor was up in the crack and Ted yelled at him to get out there and glancing over at the grass by the adult and jerky moth.
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That's your brother?
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Yeah, and jerky moth, get out of there, you can cause a saint to explode and kill a saw, you know, and of course he went prowling around in there.
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I was kind of standing off one side looking at why I knew that there was, I could look off these rocks that I was standing on right into this thing.
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That's why I knew about the lights and the components and stuff.
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And then I don't know, I heard other people talking and I turned and it was a group of people coming up the Eroya from out on the planes from the south that had come up there and of course they walked up and was talking.
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There was an older man and five younger students, boys and girls, there was three boys and two girls.
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And they were all, you know, introducing, talking to my father and my uncle and my brother.
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What did the older one look like?
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He was a very tall man, very big man.
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He was wearing a pith helmet when he first came up one of those kind of explorations.
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And he was bald and I know that because he had taken it off and had done an S-SIM,
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a couple of times with a haggard shift and put it back on him as a bald man.
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And he had a round face, he was very ready-complexed.
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And he apparently was a doctor because they kept calling him doctor.
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And as I understand it was an archeological group.
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It was out there on some kind of summer thing.
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And they talked and he apparently was able to speak several foreign languages.
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And he tried to talk to this creature several times in different languages and again to know of ale.
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How did that happen to be there?
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Have you seen the thing?
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Well, they claimed that they saw it.
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They said they saw this thing come down the night before of playing, you know.
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And they thought it was a meteorite.
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And they had talked about, well in the morning, you know, we'll go there and see this
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where this meteor came down and says what they thought it was.
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And when the sent came up the next morning, you know, and they got about their business and got up
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and somebody looked over and said, you know, they saw the shiny metal and stuff across the planes there.
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And they realized it wasn't a meteorite.
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It may have been an airplane and that in Christ.
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So they all decided to go over there and see if there was anybody who was alive, you know, that was heard to be in hell.
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Did they had driven on it?
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No, they walked over apparently the way I understand it.
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And it's quite a ways across that plane.
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So it hadn't taken a very long time to do this.
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Or they may have had a vehicle.
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That's an assumption I think I'm like part of it.
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Okay, so they're around with the family.
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But they came across the planes, not in the last time.
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I share a video of them on an ID and hearing a car.
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And then somebody else showed them.
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Yeah, they were down there just, oh, 15, maybe 20 minutes, the tops, you know,
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and they were picking up things, some of the students and just Dr. Bussker,
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that they called in, this one girl, when I said, look, Dr.
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it wouldn't just make a beautiful range.
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She was holding one, looked like a red rod, a red tube,
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and some kind of a silvery red.
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And he kind of snapped at her, you know, and put that down, Agnes.
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You don't know what that is.
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I think it hurt you.
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Don't pick this stuff up.
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And she kind of said, well, yeah, okay, Dr.
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and then he went back to what he was doing,
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and she walked away and put it in her pocket.
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And a lot of more doing this.
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We're picking up things and feeling things.
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I was picking up things and feeling things.
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All kinds of material and metal and stuff laying around.
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Then we heard it, I heard it, and he, well, we all heard it,
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a sound of a motor coming on the truck.
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And I went back up the incline there to the Ridge line,
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and I could see out there, and there was a truck coming up,
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it was an old pickup truck, it was sort of a beige color,
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or a tan color, a tan, it had a whip antenna on it,
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and it stopped, and this guy got out, and he's wearing brown clothes,
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he's got boots on, and he's wearing a straw hat,
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just like the kind of Harry Truman always wore,
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and he had wire rim glasses, and he was a big man,
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and he looked exactly like Harry Truman to me,
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and I had seen in the movie Tone News that the...
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He was president then.
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Yeah, I was a well-wear Harry Truman,
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and I was a firebite, he was kind of a hero, you know?
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And it's kind of looked like he'd accept bigger, bigger.
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And I don't think he, and he didn't look as old either.
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His hair was kind of light gray,
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and he walked over there, and they got to talk,
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and nearly with everybody, and he told them
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that he worked out on the planes out there,
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and that he made maps, and that he had seen the wreckage
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from out there on the planes, and he saw the people,
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and he thought it was a plane wreck, and you know,
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something was going on, and he came over here to see.
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And he hadn't been there, but just a very, very few minutes,
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when we heard all kinds of motors and engine straying and stuff.
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And Harry comes a military car with a big white star on the side,
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but followed by a six-by, which is a military truck
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with a kind of canvas wagon, a kind of canvas,
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saying over and it's full of soldiers that got guns,
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and right behind that was what we call a four-by,
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which is like a medium-sized, jeep truck situation,
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and two big Hollywood vantanas, all kinds of radio gear in and back,
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and a guy back there with earphones and stuff on,
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and he's, you know, working these radios,
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and they all pulled up and stopped, and...
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Which direction did they come from?
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They came from the north, from where the horse sprang is area and range.
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So they could have come off the highway there?
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Oh, yeah, I'm dead, sure, that's exactly how they got there.
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They come off the highway, same way we did.
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Well, in the meantime, when it stopped,
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the black soldier, the sergeant, and the reason I know he was the sergeant
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my brother told me he was, and he got out of this car,
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and then a guy got out on the other side,
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and he was a glen city, he was a captain, he told me later, he was a captain.
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And this guy had orange-red hair,
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and all the soldiers there,
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and they were running over there, pointing guns at people,
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and telling them, get away, get away, get away, you know?
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And when this creature saw these people,
[0:21:32 - 0:21:36] ▶
the military, he went nuts, he went into an absolute panic,
[0:21:36 - 0:21:41] ▶
worse than what he did when he saw us.
[0:21:41 - 0:21:44] ▶
Did he move around or just designed?
[0:21:44 - 0:21:46] ▶
He just...he just...oh, look at him.
[0:21:46 - 0:21:49] ▶
Crazy, and it was like he would look...
[0:21:49 - 0:21:51] ▶
Yeah, like he's looking for a place to run and hide.
[0:21:51 - 0:21:54] ▶
But he never got up.
[0:21:54 - 0:21:56] ▶
He never left the worn-injured, what next thing?
[0:21:57 - 0:22:00] ▶
And this red-headed officer,
[0:22:00 - 0:22:04] ▶
this guy was a real butthole.
[0:22:04 - 0:22:07] ▶
He made all the threats he threatened to have people shot.
[0:22:07 - 0:22:12] ▶
You know, well, shit, get away from there.
[0:22:16 - 0:22:18] ▶
This is a military secret, you know, just screaming at a horror ant.
[0:22:18 - 0:22:21] ▶
He told my uncle and my father that if they didn't want to spend the rest of their life in prison,
[0:22:21 - 0:22:27] ▶
they would never say anything about what they saw there.
[0:22:27 - 0:22:31] ▶
If they ever wanted to see us, kids again, they'd take the kids away,
[0:22:31 - 0:22:34] ▶
and they'd never see the kids yelling at me.
[0:22:34 - 0:22:36] ▶
And the victor, that we'd better keep our mouth shut.
[0:22:36 - 0:22:39] ▶
If we did not, this is what was going to happen.
[0:22:39 - 0:22:42] ▶
They were threatening people and pushing people.
[0:22:42 - 0:22:45] ▶
The students as well.
[0:22:45 - 0:22:47] ▶
There were a hustler and everybody.
[0:22:48 - 0:22:50] ▶
And one of the soldiers pushed my uncle.
[0:22:50 - 0:22:54] ▶
He had a life like this.
[0:22:54 - 0:22:55] ▶
He shed his back like that.
[0:22:55 - 0:22:56] ▶
Well, that was something he didn't do to my uncle.
[0:22:56 - 0:22:59] ▶
Ted had a violent temper.
[0:23:00 - 0:23:01] ▶
And he grabbed the rifle and reached over top.
[0:23:01 - 0:23:04] ▶
He smacked this guy and dropped him right there.
[0:23:04 - 0:23:06] ▶
Ted had dropped the fight of the job.
[0:23:06 - 0:23:08] ▶
But this guy is a cowboy.
[0:23:08 - 0:23:10] ▶
He had a good chin and a neck.
[0:23:10 - 0:23:12] ▶
There was a bulls open.
[0:23:13 - 0:23:15] ▶
And I guess they were cocking their rifles.
[0:23:15 - 0:23:18] ▶
They were pointing guns at people and everybody was hurt and glad and dead.
[0:23:18 - 0:23:25] ▶
Pulling it back and going away.
[0:23:26 - 0:23:28] ▶
Don't tell me they're going to shoot.
[0:23:28 - 0:23:29] ▶
Trying to stop this.
[0:23:30 - 0:23:31] ▶
I think we came very close to having someone shout.
[0:23:31 - 0:23:36] ▶
Then they really started threatening.
[0:23:36 - 0:23:39] ▶
Did the Red Hat do all the talk on pretty much?
[0:23:39 - 0:23:42] ▶
Except once in a while the sergeant would shine in and make statements like that to other people in response to the Red Hat.
[0:23:43 - 0:23:51] ▶
Mainly it was the Red Hat.
[0:23:51 - 0:23:53] ▶
Was there a name tag?
[0:23:53 - 0:23:54] ▶
And his name was Armstrong.
[0:23:55 - 0:23:58] ▶
And I'm not sure if I know that from having Red Hat or know that from remembering it.
[0:23:58 - 0:24:05] ▶
Now being able to read it in my memory or someone sent it to me.
[0:24:05 - 0:24:10] ▶
But his name was Armstrong.
[0:24:10 - 0:24:12] ▶
It was right here on his uniform.
[0:24:12 - 0:24:13] ▶
Now they chased you guys away pretty quick.
[0:24:13 - 0:24:16] ▶
And they heard it just up on cattle.
[0:24:18 - 0:24:20] ▶
And they were just up the Eroia back in the direction we come from.
[0:24:20 - 0:24:24] ▶
Over the protest of this Dr. Buzz Kirkman said, no, no.
[0:24:24 - 0:24:28] ▶
We've got to go the other way.
[0:24:28 - 0:24:29] ▶
I don't care where you came from.
[0:24:30 - 0:24:31] ▶
Get you asked up the Eroia.
[0:24:31 - 0:24:34] ▶
And they ran us up the Eroia.
[0:24:34 - 0:24:37] ▶
So you get to your car then?
[0:24:38 - 0:24:39] ▶
Now they take us up the Eroia and just blow the hill that we came down.
[0:24:40 - 0:24:43] ▶
They broke us off and moved us up the hill.
[0:24:43 - 0:24:46] ▶
Now this whole time no one has ever frisked us down.
[0:24:46 - 0:24:49] ▶
No one has ever checked our pockets to see if we picked up in his material.
[0:24:49 - 0:24:53] ▶
And this girl Agnes still has that stuff in her pocket and some of the other students had stuff.
[0:24:53 - 0:25:00] ▶
To my knowledge had to tough to that point.
[0:25:00 - 0:25:03] ▶
They had not been searched whether they did so.
[0:25:03 - 0:25:05] ▶
At the word I don't know.
[0:25:05 - 0:25:07] ▶
They never searched us ever.
[0:25:07 - 0:25:09] ▶
They ran us back up the hill.
[0:25:09 - 0:25:11] ▶
And when we got to where the car was parked, we're dead parked the car up there.
[0:25:11 - 0:25:16] ▶
There's a Jeep with a guy sitting in the back and there's something.
[0:25:16 - 0:25:20] ▶
He's mounted a machine gun in the back of this Jeep and all these soldiers.
[0:25:20 - 0:25:24] ▶
We'll get in the car.
[0:25:26 - 0:25:27] ▶
We follow the Jeep and the soldiers go with us.
[0:25:27 - 0:25:30] ▶
All the way back onto the highway.
[0:25:30 - 0:25:32] ▶
And when we get back onto the highway, they set us right there.
[0:25:32 - 0:25:36] ▶
They wouldn't let us out of the car.
[0:25:36 - 0:25:37] ▶
They wouldn't let us move forward.
[0:25:37 - 0:25:38] ▶
They wouldn't let us make an decision.
[0:25:38 - 0:25:40] ▶
When we got out on the highway, this place was absolutely full of military personnel, military equipment.
[0:25:41 - 0:25:47] ▶
There was airplanes sitting out there that he had landed on the highway.
[0:25:47 - 0:25:51] ▶
Did you see any airplanes when you were back at the sun?
[0:25:51 - 0:25:53] ▶
Yeah, there was airplanes in the sky, but nobody thought much about it.
[0:25:53 - 0:25:57] ▶
I didn't think anything about it.
[0:25:57 - 0:25:58] ▶
I was used to airplanes being in the sky having been raising in inapolis, Indiana, the home of the north of bombsite.
[0:25:58 - 0:26:04] ▶
The sky was always full of military aircraft.
[0:26:04 - 0:26:06] ▶
Never thought that would happen about it.
[0:26:06 - 0:26:08] ▶
And when we get back onto the highway, there's observation aircraft.
[0:26:08 - 0:26:12] ▶
You know, high wind aircraft and there's one what I know now to be a C-47 set in there.
[0:26:12 - 0:26:17] ▶
And how we didn't hear that lands beyond me.
[0:26:17 - 0:26:20] ▶
And how you land, well, of course, I guess you could land if you were a good pilot now.
[0:26:20 - 0:26:23] ▶
There was a normal pulsar.
[0:26:23 - 0:26:26] ▶
And it was they had tore the fence down on the north side of that highway.
[0:26:26 - 0:26:31] ▶
And all this equipment was setting back up there.
[0:26:31 - 0:26:34] ▶
And that plane was up there and it were taking stuff out of the plane.
[0:26:34 - 0:26:37] ▶
There was military ambulances and there was trucks with like records, cranes on it.
[0:26:37 - 0:26:44] ▶
And there was tankers like maybe had fuel or water in them.
[0:26:44 - 0:26:49] ▶
It was just everywhere you looked, there was military and major recovery operation.
[0:26:49 - 0:26:55] ▶
Yeah, it looked like an invasion force.
[0:26:55 - 0:26:57] ▶
And they were all wearing these light khaki uniforms.
[0:26:58 - 0:27:04] ▶
They didn't look like they all had drafts.
[0:27:04 - 0:27:06] ▶
They were light khaki.
[0:27:06 - 0:27:07] ▶
And they all had the same patch over there that kind of blue funny patch with the circles on it.
[0:27:07 - 0:27:13] ▶
It was on their shoulder.
[0:27:13 - 0:27:15] ▶
And a lot of the clue is to where they came from, that your brother or your brother.
[0:27:16 - 0:27:20] ▶
I don't know where they came from.
[0:27:20 - 0:27:23] ▶
I don't think it was a raster tamed that.
[0:27:23 - 0:27:27] ▶
There were a lot of them had MP patches.
[0:27:27 - 0:27:30] ▶
And some of them were wearing night sticks off of these web utility belts.
[0:27:30 - 0:27:35] ▶
They had night sticks and they had 45s and holster, you know, they automatics and the full holster.
[0:27:35 - 0:27:41] ▶
And these were the people who were given most of the orders.
[0:27:41 - 0:27:45] ▶
They had the road barricaded all out there and we sit there for a very long time and you were getting thirsty and everything.
[0:27:45 - 0:27:50] ▶
And we asked if we could go back to horse springs and get some water.
[0:27:50 - 0:27:53] ▶
Oh, no, no, you can't go through there.
[0:27:53 - 0:27:55] ▶
And right after that they said no, you just turn out and you head out of here now and you go to the coral and this is a red end again.
[0:27:55 - 0:28:03] ▶
You keep your mouth shut.
[0:28:03 - 0:28:05] ▶
You just keep going and don't look back.
[0:28:05 - 0:28:08] ▶
Well, as we drove away, you know, and dad and us and Helen, we're going to make a win and we'll get water and make a win.
[0:28:08 - 0:28:15] ▶
Because that's where John's revealed and they're relative to 10.
[0:28:15 - 0:28:18] ▶
And so as we drove away, I was looking out the back window and I could see Dr. Buster and these kids.
[0:28:18 - 0:28:28] ▶
And that guy that got out of the pickup was standing there and this Dr. Buster was doing just like this and this red headed officer's face and he kept pointing back behind him.
[0:28:28 - 0:28:41] ▶
And I guess that meant, you know, we got to go back that way and he was fed up with this guy or something.
[0:28:41 - 0:28:47] ▶
He was shaking his finger in the space while they were yelling at each other.
[0:28:47 - 0:28:50] ▶
And that's pretty much the last.
[0:28:50 - 0:28:52] ▶
I saw the whole situation out on the what happened after that because we just kept going.
[0:28:52 - 0:28:56] ▶
Did you get home before dark?
[0:28:56 - 0:28:59] ▶
Oh, yeah, yeah, I was before dark.
[0:28:59 - 0:29:01] ▶
Of course, I was in a summertime sitting in the dark, don't worry.
[0:29:01 - 0:29:04] ▶
And we stopped in Magdalena very briefly and he kept going.
[0:29:04 - 0:29:11] ▶
And the adults were really funny.
[0:29:11 - 0:29:15] ▶
They were really scared.
[0:29:15 - 0:29:17] ▶
And I had very rarely, you know, of course I didn't know them that well, but over the years I knew that 10 was not much a redisplanary.
[0:29:17 - 0:29:25] ▶
And he really didn't discipline the kids that much.
[0:29:25 - 0:29:28] ▶
But he really not the fire out of the little victory.
[0:29:28 - 0:29:31] ▶
Victor wanted to talk about what we just saw.
[0:29:31 - 0:29:33] ▶
I just saw him take it and tell him, you shut it, don't talk about it.
[0:29:33 - 0:29:36] ▶
No way he's talking about this.
[0:29:36 - 0:29:38] ▶
Finally, he just turned around and knocked the living hell out of Victor for a shit in his mouth.
[0:29:38 - 0:29:44] ▶
Did 10 work at Sandy?
[0:29:44 - 0:29:45] ▶
He did something out there in the technical area.
[0:29:46 - 0:29:49] ▶
Later your dad worked out there.
[0:29:53 - 0:29:55] ▶
He worked there for years until he returned.
[0:29:57 - 0:29:59] ▶
And dad had some very high clearance.
[0:30:00 - 0:30:02] ▶
Mom was over at Uncle Ted's house
[0:30:06 - 0:30:10] ▶
and Mom perceived instantly that something was wrong.
[0:30:10 - 0:30:15] ▶
And what's wrong with him?
[0:30:15 - 0:30:16] ▶
He's been, I guess, and then.
[0:30:16 - 0:30:18] ▶
He decided to tell him what he did.
[0:30:18 - 0:30:20] ▶
Of course, Isabelle.
[0:30:20 - 0:30:21] ▶
Oh my God, you saw demons.
[0:30:21 - 0:30:23] ▶
Isabelle was Ted's wife.
[0:30:25 - 0:30:26] ▶
She devout the religious Catholic person who thinks anything that isn't a vision
[0:30:27 - 0:30:33] ▶
and say the Virgin Mary or Jesus is quote-unquote demons.
[0:30:33 - 0:30:38] ▶
And that's what we saw.
[0:30:38 - 0:30:40] ▶
And of course, Ted, you know, God, you know, he's put her off.
[0:30:40 - 0:30:44] ▶
And we really never talked about it much in the family
[0:30:44 - 0:30:48] ▶
because of the reaction he got.
[0:30:48 - 0:30:50] ▶
And my dad was really afraid.
[0:30:50 - 0:30:53] ▶
They were glad and special because
[0:30:54 - 0:30:56] ▶
Glenn made this statement about when he first saw the military.
[0:30:56 - 0:30:59] ▶
He told my father, he said,
[0:30:59 - 0:31:01] ▶
and Ted, and everybody there,
[0:31:01 - 0:31:03] ▶
don't let them, somebody says, no, I'm a Marine.
[0:31:03 - 0:31:06] ▶
Don't let them know.
[0:31:06 - 0:31:07] ▶
And of course, nobody did.
[0:31:07 - 0:31:09] ▶
And he was in stayed clothes.
[0:31:09 - 0:31:11] ▶
He kept a pair of blue jeans.
[0:31:11 - 0:31:14] ▶
I was at staying clothes.
[0:31:14 - 0:31:16] ▶
So, you know, he didn't look like a military or I'm sure his ass has been in real trouble.
[0:31:16 - 0:31:21] ▶
And they never checked.
[0:31:21 - 0:31:23] ▶
They just assumed, I guess, that we were...
[0:31:23 - 0:31:25] ▶
Did they ask your name?
[0:31:25 - 0:31:26] ▶
They took our names.
[0:31:27 - 0:31:28] ▶
They got a lot from my dad.
[0:31:28 - 0:31:30] ▶
And my brother just very
[0:31:30 - 0:31:33] ▶
criss-crossery with, you know,
[0:31:33 - 0:31:35] ▶
very, very hard to talk to him at all.
[0:31:35 - 0:31:38] ▶
And then, when I was a kid,
[0:31:38 - 0:31:40] ▶
I was like, my dad and Ted do most of the time,
[0:31:40 - 0:31:42] ▶
which was a pretty smart thing.
[0:31:42 - 0:31:44] ▶
Under the circumstances, of course,
[0:31:44 - 0:31:46] ▶
they never really asked me any questions at all.
[0:31:46 - 0:31:48] ▶
You were just a kid.
[0:31:48 - 0:31:50] ▶
And, well, you first went public with this.
[0:31:52 - 0:31:55] ▶
Now, let's first square away.
[0:31:55 - 0:31:57] ▶
All the other four that you were with, you did it.
[0:31:57 - 0:31:59] ▶
That's been some time.
[0:32:00 - 0:32:01] ▶
And my brother died of an architect in Mexico City.
[0:32:01 - 0:32:04] ▶
Ted and Victor were killed in a automobile accident in mid-1965.
[0:32:06 - 0:32:14] ▶
Right. Now, there's a strange diary that's turned up.
[0:32:14 - 0:32:17] ▶
How did that happen?
[0:32:17 - 0:32:19] ▶
Well, when I went to my father's funeral in 1978,
[0:32:19 - 0:32:23] ▶
a lot of dad's belongings were...
[0:32:23 - 0:32:26] ▶
Personal belongings were given to us.
[0:32:26 - 0:32:28] ▶
You didn't live in the area at the time?
[0:32:28 - 0:32:30] ▶
I've been in the military and subsequently,
[0:32:31 - 0:32:33] ▶
the hunt in return, the military moved to Colorado immediately.
[0:32:33 - 0:32:37] ▶
And your dad had remarried a couple of times.
[0:32:37 - 0:32:41] ▶
So, dad was under his third wife.
[0:32:42 - 0:32:45] ▶
And he has personal belongings and stuff, you know,
[0:32:45 - 0:32:50] ▶
or kind of given to my two brothers and myself.
[0:32:50 - 0:32:54] ▶
And my cousin, Bella Jean, was there at the funeral?
[0:32:54 - 0:32:58] ▶
That's Ted's daughter.
[0:32:58 - 0:32:59] ▶
And she came up and was talking to me.
[0:33:00 - 0:33:03] ▶
And she said, here, you were there, you need to have this too.
[0:33:03 - 0:33:10] ▶
And she handed me these photo copies.
[0:33:10 - 0:33:12] ▶
And at first, you know, I thought, well, you know,
[0:33:12 - 0:33:15] ▶
what is this dad's diary?
[0:33:15 - 0:33:16] ▶
She said, no, it's my dad's diary.
[0:33:16 - 0:33:19] ▶
But you were there to need to have this.
[0:33:19 - 0:33:21] ▶
And then a done of what I was looking at.
[0:33:21 - 0:33:23] ▶
And I, because I read a little bit of it.
[0:33:23 - 0:33:26] ▶
And so I said, yeah, okay.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:28] ▶
And I didn't want to talk about it, because, you know,
[0:33:28 - 0:33:31] ▶
because the rosis side of the family got blessed.
[0:33:31 - 0:33:34] ▶
And your dad's third wife.
[0:33:34 - 0:33:35] ▶
I got blessed or he loved her.
[0:33:35 - 0:33:37] ▶
But they were very religious.
[0:33:37 - 0:33:39] ▶
And they would have viewed this exactly the same way as Bella had as evil.
[0:33:39 - 0:33:44] ▶
And I really didn't want to have any problems with them.
[0:33:44 - 0:33:47] ▶
You know, the way we were kind of shaky terms.
[0:33:47 - 0:33:50] ▶
We didn't see the eye to eye religiously.
[0:33:50 - 0:33:52] ▶
So we were not quite good.
[0:33:52 - 0:33:54] ▶
But you're active in religion now.
[0:33:54 - 0:33:56] ▶
You're a deacon in the Episcopal Church.
[0:33:56 - 0:33:59] ▶
Okay. That means you actively participated in this.
[0:34:00 - 0:34:02] ▶
A lay university in the history.
[0:34:03 - 0:34:05] ▶
So, yes, I actively participated.
[0:34:06 - 0:34:08] ▶
I served on the altar.
[0:34:08 - 0:34:09] ▶
What do you do for living now?
[0:34:09 - 0:34:11] ▶
I'm a security officer in the state of the church.
[0:34:11 - 0:34:13] ▶
And you've been doing police sort of work for several years.
[0:34:13 - 0:34:16] ▶
And yes, about nine years, all.
[0:34:16 - 0:34:19] ▶
And you also are going to college to be a nurse.
[0:34:19 - 0:34:22] ▶
And you've already got a couple of associate degrees from community colleges.
[0:34:22 - 0:34:25] ▶
And you're going to have to write a yes.
[0:34:25 - 0:34:27] ▶
I want to associate a science and one associate of general studies.
[0:34:27 - 0:34:30] ▶
And I'm working toward my bachelor's of nursing.
[0:34:30 - 0:34:33] ▶
And roughly two years, I will have my bachelor of nursing.
[0:34:33 - 0:34:37] ▶
Now to be a security officer, you have to be licensed by the state of Missouri.
[0:34:37 - 0:34:40] ▶
Yes, you have to be a certified law enforcement officer.
[0:34:40 - 0:34:43] ▶
Which means that you have to go on to the state of Canada, the Department of Public State.
[0:34:43 - 0:34:48] ▶
So that's not just a big up thing.
[0:34:48 - 0:34:50] ▶
Yes, it's definitely.
[0:34:52 - 0:34:54] ▶
And you have to work for the state under these conditions.
[0:34:55 - 0:35:00] ▶
You have to only be certified by the grant that prior law enforcement experience.
[0:35:00 - 0:35:04] ▶
Now, when we get back to the diary for just a minute,
[0:35:04 - 0:35:08] ▶
when you were hypnotized by John Carpenter, a psychiatric social worker.
[0:35:08 - 0:35:13] ▶
And he was asking you questions about the diary.
[0:35:13 - 0:35:17] ▶
Apparently, you've been told that there were a number of copies of that around.
[0:35:17 - 0:35:21] ▶
Something buried out maybe there too.
[0:35:22 - 0:35:24] ▶
As I understood, well, in fact, in conversations with Valegine after the fact that I got involved in this thing through the unsolved mystery thing,
[0:35:25 - 0:35:35] ▶
I was told that that wasn't the only diary that what I had was a copy of.
[0:35:35 - 0:35:44] ▶
And there were a lot of these copies around it.
[0:35:44 - 0:35:49] ▶
Apparently, Uncle Ted, or someone had put these out through different people in the family and friends and stuff.
[0:35:49 - 0:35:58] ▶
For reasons, I don't know, to keep her from getting lost or something like that.
[0:35:58 - 0:36:04] ▶
Okay. Now, when I asked you for the original, you contacted who?
[0:36:04 - 0:36:11] ▶
Well, I wanted to get Valegine.
[0:36:11 - 0:36:13] ▶
Okay. She was in a convent.
[0:36:14 - 0:36:16] ▶
And she was reluctant to do anything.
[0:36:17 - 0:36:19] ▶
You had a call a number of times, and so I was like, that's correct.
[0:36:19 - 0:36:22] ▶
And you talked to the bishop, somebody talked to him.
[0:36:22 - 0:36:24] ▶
Yeah, I talked to a bishop.
[0:36:24 - 0:36:26] ▶
And he convinced her to send the stuff to me.
[0:36:26 - 0:36:29] ▶
Okay. Because I got it directly from Colorado with a cover letter that's strongly indicated that she didn't want me more to do with this.
[0:36:30 - 0:36:37] ▶
That was part of the agreement.
[0:36:37 - 0:36:39] ▶
But that she considered this the work of the devil.
[0:36:39 - 0:36:41] ▶
Words to that effect anyway.
[0:36:41 - 0:36:43] ▶
I think she's the same opinion her mother was.
[0:36:43 - 0:36:47] ▶
So what were the devil and you see all I ever had of this was the photographic copies that I had showed you originally.
[0:36:48 - 0:36:55] ▶
And as I understand it, you received the original from which those have been made.
[0:36:55 - 0:37:00] ▶
They were partly burnt.
[0:37:00 - 0:37:01] ▶
She mentioned she had intended to burn them.
[0:37:01 - 0:37:03] ▶
But because of your persistence and with the agreement that I never contacted her, she would send them to me.
[0:37:03 - 0:37:09] ▶
And as you know, when I had forensic analysis done, it showed that the ink dated from the early seven days.
[0:37:09 - 0:37:14] ▶
The paper could have been available in 47.
[0:37:14 - 0:37:17] ▶
So it was clearly not an original.
[0:37:17 - 0:37:20] ▶
But it was also done before there was any publicity about this case.
[0:37:20 - 0:37:24] ▶
Anyway, because I know I was the first one to get involved.
[0:37:24 - 0:37:28] ▶
Now, as you know, we have discovered not I, but you had identical sketches done by a police artist.
[0:37:29 - 0:37:39] ▶
Other various people involved in this.
[0:37:39 - 0:37:42] ▶
And as you know, there is a picture, several pictures that seem to indicate the doctor bus card.
[0:37:43 - 0:37:49] ▶
Was doctor Winford bus card.
[0:37:49 - 0:37:52] ▶
And you would receive this PhD at University of New Mexico.
[0:37:52 - 0:37:55] ▶
And you would describe them as in as like 30s or 40s in terms of it was 39 and 1947.
[0:37:55 - 0:38:00] ▶
It was bald and bald most of his life even up to then.
[0:38:00 - 0:38:06] ▶
Did was there other contact between you and hey, at that time as far as you know, your family and him or.
[0:38:06 - 0:38:14] ▶
I don't believe my dad had a contact him.
[0:38:19 - 0:38:22] ▶
It's just a possibility that Ted may have.
[0:38:22 - 0:38:25] ▶
And I'm not sure why I.
[0:38:25 - 0:38:29] ▶
I think valedine had alluded to the fact that.
[0:38:29 - 0:38:32] ▶
Ted had been in contact with him.
[0:38:32 - 0:38:35] ▶
And that they corresponded in this kind of thing.
[0:38:35 - 0:38:39] ▶
But as far as the personal knowledge of it.
[0:38:39 - 0:38:42] ▶
Now you didn't tell your story really until the unsolved mysteries program was rerun in January of 19.
[0:38:43 - 0:38:47] ▶
That's when you contacted them got my address wrote me.
[0:38:48 - 0:38:50] ▶
Were there a lot of set that the program wasn't quite accurate?
[0:38:52 - 0:38:56] ▶
Well, yeah, that was the whole thing.
[0:38:56 - 0:38:58] ▶
It started off as a fluke to begin with because everything I saw didn't jade with what I had seen personally.
[0:38:58 - 0:39:05] ▶
I guess I was kind of misty.
[0:39:05 - 0:39:07] ▶
I heard all these years.
[0:39:07 - 0:39:08] ▶
I had been primarily forced, you know, by not only by others, but by, you know, my own sense of survival.
[0:39:08 - 0:39:16] ▶
To keep my mouth shut.
[0:39:17 - 0:39:19] ▶
And you got it wrong.
[0:39:21 - 0:39:23] ▶
Well, just the emphulsively called a number and told the lady, wait a minute.
[0:39:24 - 0:39:28] ▶
No, the plane was wrong.
[0:39:28 - 0:39:30] ▶
Well, you know that, sir.
[0:39:30 - 0:39:32] ▶
And I said, well, because I was there, that's why.
[0:39:32 - 0:39:34] ▶
And boy, I hadn't really had apparently pulled somebody string.
[0:39:34 - 0:39:39] ▶
And the key thing that was wrong, of course, there were a few mistakes in another one.
[0:39:40 - 0:39:42] ▶
It's actually a program.
[0:39:42 - 0:39:43] ▶
It was that they had that, the Barney Barnett, the civil engineer story over near Corona.
[0:39:43 - 0:39:49] ▶
And you knew that it was over in the planes.
[0:39:49 - 0:39:52] ▶
There's a lot more in it.
[0:39:53 - 0:39:54] ▶
And then the fact that, to think, looked like a, a tent flat or a tent top hat.
[0:39:55 - 0:39:58] ▶
It was dish shape and the Barney Barnett or whoever the guy in the truck was, did not drive right up to it on a road.
[0:40:00 - 0:40:07] ▶
It wasn't parked, conveniently, next to a thoroughfare, you know.
[0:40:07 - 0:40:11] ▶
And it was just things like that.
[0:40:11 - 0:40:14] ▶
I just, for some reason, I thought, well, you know, she's looking.
[0:40:15 - 0:40:20] ▶
It's already public.
[0:40:20 - 0:40:21] ▶
Yeah, it's a story's out.
[0:40:21 - 0:40:22] ▶
And let's get it right, you know.
[0:40:22 - 0:40:24] ▶
And of course, I didn't.
[0:40:24 - 0:40:25] ▶
I don't think I realized at the time how involved this was going to be.
[0:40:25 - 0:40:29] ▶
What kind of research?
[0:40:29 - 0:40:30] ▶
You know, I got you together with John Carpenter, the psychiatric social worker.
[0:40:30 - 0:40:36] ▶
And you guys had several sessions.
[0:40:36 - 0:40:38] ▶
And then we flew out to the site.
[0:40:38 - 0:40:41] ▶
You're reasonably convinced now that the second time around out there, we did find the exact location.
[0:40:41 - 0:40:48] ▶
Yeah, the first time in, I, you know, it was like 43 years.
[0:40:48 - 0:40:53] ▶
And we're in a helicopter.
[0:40:53 - 0:40:55] ▶
Yeah, I was in the air this time.
[0:40:55 - 0:40:57] ▶
And the last time I was on a ground.
[0:40:57 - 0:40:59] ▶
And so, you know, the landmarks were a little confusing.
[0:40:59 - 0:41:02] ▶
I was in the right place.
[0:41:03 - 0:41:04] ▶
But until we actually got on the ground, John and I, and retraced the route in there that we had come in in the car,
[0:41:05 - 0:41:12] ▶
I wasn't absolutely sure there was two ridgelines there.
[0:41:12 - 0:41:16] ▶
And I wasn't really sure of which one it was.
[0:41:16 - 0:41:19] ▶
And I had the feeling that the first one that I had pointed out was the correct one.
[0:41:19 - 0:41:24] ▶
But once I went in on the ground on foot with John, I knew instantly that it wasn't that one.
[0:41:24 - 0:41:29] ▶
And I was absolutely positive that that's where I was at.
[0:41:29 - 0:41:34] ▶
Question in my mind.
[0:41:34 - 0:41:35] ▶
And you will recall that you described the woman who soldiered the pop on the way in.
[0:41:35 - 0:41:39] ▶
And we found the older woman there who said that was exactly what she looked like.
[0:41:40 - 0:41:44] ▶
And I'll never forget that lady because I, a lot had it with me telling it.
[0:41:44 - 0:41:50] ▶
Back to that 40 planet down to dirty old roads and stuff.
[0:41:50 - 0:41:55] ▶
And for mile after mile, of course, my dad was one of these kind of people.
[0:41:56 - 0:42:00] ▶
When he got in the car, he was point eight to point B nonstop.
[0:42:00 - 0:42:04] ▶
I don't know why he just never stopped smelling roses on the way.
[0:42:04 - 0:42:08] ▶
And so, you know, I was pretty set in shape.
[0:42:08 - 0:42:12] ▶
And I didn't remember that lady quite a lot.
[0:42:12 - 0:42:14] ▶
What kind of response have you had?
[0:42:14 - 0:42:16] ▶
I mean, John talked to a newsman.
[0:42:17 - 0:42:19] ▶
He called me in the Springfield newspaper.
[0:42:20 - 0:42:22] ▶
People, people carried a very straight, very large article.
[0:42:22 - 0:42:25] ▶
And that got spread around by lots of people.
[0:42:25 - 0:42:28] ▶
So suddenly you're a celebrity, if you will.
[0:42:28 - 0:42:30] ▶
What kind of reaction from the people who knew you on campus, where you worked?
[0:42:30 - 0:42:34] ▶
Oh, very, very few negatives.
[0:42:35 - 0:42:39] ▶
There is the noisy, negative, just, you know, we have those.
[0:42:39 - 0:42:44] ▶
But in general, generally, 99% of the people were incredibly supported.
[0:42:44 - 0:42:51] ▶
Only one professor at the university was of the negatives,
[0:42:51 - 0:42:56] ▶
typed it was vocal about it.
[0:42:56 - 0:42:58] ▶
Everybody else, just 100% supported it.
[0:42:58 - 0:43:01] ▶
The majority of these people are absolutely convinced, even without this story,
[0:43:01 - 0:43:06] ▶
that extraterrestrial life forms exist and that the people are flying around out there
[0:43:06 - 0:43:12] ▶
and moving between systems and stuff.
[0:43:12 - 0:43:15] ▶
And it was just, it's just an unbelievable amount of support.
[0:43:15 - 0:43:18] ▶
You didn't lose your job.
[0:43:18 - 0:43:20] ▶
Boss didn't give you a hard task.
[0:43:21 - 0:43:22] ▶
And not in fact, I think it's, I can publicly say that my boss was extremely supported
[0:43:23 - 0:43:29] ▶
because he is a avid, he followed just himself.
[0:43:29 - 0:43:33] ▶
He's fascinated by the subject and you won't have any problem convincing him either.
[0:43:33 - 0:43:38] ▶
And my boss has a master's degree.
[0:43:38 - 0:43:40] ▶
He's not someone that's untrained observer that's given hallucination.
[0:43:40 - 0:43:45] ▶
Most of the people who are the most supportive of me are people who are very happy.
[0:43:45 - 0:43:49] ▶
Our people are very high.
[0:43:49 - 0:43:51] ▶
Education is very, very solid education, very solid understanding to greet people.
[0:43:51 - 0:43:56] ▶
Given the hallucination.
[0:43:56 - 0:43:58] ▶
You attended a UFO conference with John Carpenter and you gave a paper,
[0:43:58 - 0:44:03] ▶
I guess, and introduced you.
[0:44:03 - 0:44:05] ▶
And you've got a response from that audience too.
[0:44:06 - 0:44:08] ▶
Yeah, 100% supported.
[0:44:08 - 0:44:10] ▶
I was really, quite relieved and made very, very welcome.
[0:44:10 - 0:44:15] ▶
Well, you've been interviewed by a number of other people, Linda Howe working on a documentary and so forth.
[0:44:15 - 0:44:20] ▶
That seems to have brought the story out.
[0:44:20 - 0:44:22] ▶
How much contact did you have with Kevin Randall?
[0:44:22 - 0:44:27] ▶
A very brief telephone call.
[0:44:27 - 0:44:31] ▶
I came home from work one day and there was a message on the answering machine.
[0:44:31 - 0:44:34] ▶
And as you well, though, I have a tendency to be hard to get home.
[0:44:34 - 0:44:37] ▶
And he left his number.
[0:44:40 - 0:44:42] ▶
And of course, I had his address and I had in New York.
[0:44:42 - 0:44:45] ▶
I said I had sent cards to both of you.
[0:44:45 - 0:44:48] ▶
Something to the effect if you want to know what really happened after you called me.
[0:44:48 - 0:44:52] ▶
And he had called and I wasn't there and he had left his number.
[0:44:52 - 0:44:56] ▶
So I returned his call.
[0:44:56 - 0:44:58] ▶
Now, I talked to him very briefly, primarily because I didn't like the man's attitude.
[0:44:58 - 0:45:08] ▶
I don't feel comfortable with people who call other people liars and charlatans and phoneies and say that they rig their research to make it come out the way they want.
[0:45:08 - 0:45:20] ▶
And when someone starts telling me this kind of thing, then the first thing I want to do is I want to get away from him.
[0:45:20 - 0:45:26] ▶
And this is exactly what he did.
[0:45:26 - 0:45:28] ▶
Now, I understand that this man claims that I talked to him for two hours and he has a two-hour tape of one contradiction after another.
[0:45:28 - 0:45:36] ▶
And that's not quite true.
[0:45:36 - 0:45:38] ▶
Okay, there's been no other contact with me.
[0:45:38 - 0:45:40] ▶
I won't give the man a time of day.
[0:45:41 - 0:45:43] ▶
Has any other investigator, any of the noisy, negatives, approached you during?
[0:45:44 - 0:45:48] ▶
The only other investigator is yourself are Don Berlin, her and Bob Biglot and John Carter.
[0:45:50 - 0:45:56] ▶
And you're quite familiar with our involvement.
[0:45:56 - 0:46:00] ▶
And you agree that on that first trip to the plains, it was you, I, Bob Biglot and a pilot and a helicopter.
[0:46:00 - 0:46:08] ▶
Yeah, Joe Chan, the pilot was in the front seat on the left side.
[0:46:08 - 0:46:12] ▶
I was in the front seat on the right side.
[0:46:12 - 0:46:15] ▶
You were directly behind me.
[0:46:15 - 0:46:19] ▶
You were directly behind the pilot on the left side.
[0:46:21 - 0:46:24] ▶
Bob Biglot was directly behind me on the passenger side.
[0:46:24 - 0:46:27] ▶
And then we met up with eventually with Don Berliner and Bob Carpenter.
[0:46:28 - 0:46:31] ▶
They were at the next three days.
[0:46:32 - 0:46:33] ▶
They drove to Dattle.
[0:46:33 - 0:46:34] ▶
They drove the jeeps and stuff to Dattle and we're waiting for us to Dattle when we landed in the highway island down there.
[0:46:34 - 0:46:40] ▶
And as you recall, where did we refuel the helicopter?
[0:46:41 - 0:46:44] ▶
Sprinterdale, Arizona.
[0:46:44 - 0:46:46] ▶
Because it's not the Florida Arizona.
[0:46:46 - 0:46:48] ▶
No, it was just a matter of a few minutes actually.
[0:46:49 - 0:46:51] ▶
So, 25 minutes, maybe it's maxed west of where we were located.
[0:46:51 - 0:46:58] ▶
I think we may have picked this up another time, but I think that will do us for now.
[0:46:59 - 0:47:03] ▶
I really appreciate the time we trouble an effort and all the rest of that and on the bigger and better things.
[0:47:03 - 0:47:08] ▶