1,387 segments
Three men who previously served in the military are said to speak publicly about what they saw in the sky and heard behind closed doors.
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All right, one more guy in the light news.
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They have let in 15 people from the public.
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There is David Grasch who's a former intelligence official.
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He has knowledge of a covert government program who recover crashed alien spacecraft.
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You saw him he sweared or a firm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the old truth and nothing but the truth.
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That is David Grasch, a former Afghanistan combat veteran and 14 year high ranking intelligence officer.
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Hey, nice to meet you. You've got a light man.
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In 2019, he was tasked by the Pentagon to investigate UFOs as part of the unidentified anomalous phenomena task force.
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I had no interest in UFOs or whatever, but I thought it would be kind of an interesting thing to see what was going on.
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During his investigation, Grasch started to uncover a program that was being systematically hidden from him, the American public and our elected representatives.
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We're done with the cover up and we're going to get to the bottom of it, Dad Gammett.
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A program whose mandate was to find and retrieve crashed UFOs and attempt to rebuild them into functional vehicles that humans can fly.
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And I'm sitting there and I'm like, okay, well, this is a thing.
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Thanks to new UFO whistleblower protections, Grasch gave comprehensive documentation about these programs to the Inspector General in the summer of 22.
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He had brought people on the secret UFO programs directly to meet the Inspector General's team and had even given the staff the names of the aerospace companies involved in these programs and the locations where the UFOs were ostensibly being kept.
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I found my complaint. I told him who that interview and they ultimately were like, holy shit, this is incredible.
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In June of 23, he outed himself to the public, giving news nation and the debrief exclusive interviews.
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Do we have bodies? Do we have spaces?
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Naturally, when you recover something that's either landed or crashed, sometimes you encounter dead pilots.
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Then in late July, he testified before Congress in Washington, DC.
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The hearing was a wild moment in history. Yup, there I am with a Marcan deal from the second best YouTube channel online. Yes, theory.
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If you want instant inspiration and exposure to untold human stories across the world, throw them a subscription and stay tuned for their UFO documentary, including Dave coming soon.
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I've known Dave for about two years when we were introduced by a mutual friend who had served on the Air Force with him.
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And through many a phone call, he's put up with my wild speculations on the truth behind UFOs.
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Sometimes I'm like hanging up the phone, calling me to lie, I don't know about this. I think he's really used his grip.
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During the lead up to the hearing and in its aftermath, we were granted exclusive access.
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We actually held the first and only public hearing with Dave and 20 young Yes theory fans in Washington, DC after the Congressmen.
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We traveled with him, hiked the mountains of Colorado, got covered in dust on ATVs, hung out with some llamas.
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And of course, at a long form conversation, we discussed the history of covert UFO research programs, their connection with Robert Oppenheimer in the Manhattan Project, white presidents and elected officials may have been shielded from the UFO secrets in the past.
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And of course, his best theories as to how these UFOs fly, who their occupants are, and why they're here.
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While you'll see a candid side of Dave that you've never seen before, he's still somewhat limited in what he can and can't say.
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I don't want to get into specifics, I don't want to get into that. I can't really.
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Can't go really beyond. Can't make a personal...
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Yeah, I don't get to know.
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If anything slips that wasn't pre-approved by the Defense Department, he could literally go to J.
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But there's a lot of pretty insane new stuff he does say.
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The Manhattan Project, they were kind of the first blue look.
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Do you think Bob Lizar is full of shit?
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Have we made any agreements with any of the aliens?
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You have a sense of, you know, the species?
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And if you combine our open source research with his revelations, you can actually piece together a sort of coherent picture of what's going on with UFOs and human attempts to reverse engineer them.
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So without further ado, this is the Adam Baum of American Alchemy episodes.
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It's been marinating for months and it was executed with Manhattan Project's style secrecy.
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All of the crew members weren't allowed to disclose what they were working on.
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But I'm so excited that it's finally dropping and you are here to see it.
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So get your radiation goggles on, hit subscribe, and brace yourselves for a brain dump of everything you've ever wanted to know about UFOs from today's American Alchemist David Grush.
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Maybe you should interview me.
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Hey, that was crazy dead.
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So what happened yesterday? I didn't read the news.
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My name is David Charles Grush. I was an intelligence officer for 14 years.
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I was my agency's co-lead and identified anomalous phenomena and transmedium object analysis as well as reporting to the UAP task force, UAPTF.
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And eventually once it was established, the all-domain anomaly resolution office arrow.
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Why were you placed on the UAPTF and the UAPTF for the people that don't know is unidentified anomalous phenomena task force?
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The UAP task force director funneled a request through the Ops Center like, hey, is there any intel officer for your agency would be willing to be representative on the task force to kind of fill that void with expertise from NRO and the Air Force?
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And my boss got the email he forwarded it to me and he's like, you want to do this? And I thought, well, I'm a reservist.
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I could put it on my performance report that I worked on like a task force.
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I thought it'd be kind of an interesting thing to see what was going on.
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When did you start to realize that you weren't just kind of looking at anomalous phenomena and trying to classify it in the air, but you were being sort of systematically lied to about an internal reverse engineering program within the government?
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Yeah, I mean, certainly going into it, I thought it was going to be, you know, air trash, some per se, national natural phenomenon.
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I remember starting interviewing some military members that saw some really profound stuff like, you know, large, you know, triangular craft, you know, football field size that they hovered over them and I was like, whoa, you know, these people were very serious, very upset to actually divulge that, you know,
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a personal thing, you know, it's nothing classified. It was a personal observation they had on a drive to work.
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And then, you know, one thing led to another, I had, you know, certain colleagues of mine that I know for years approached me, you know, close the door in my office and was like, look, you need to know about some other stuff you guys are not, you know, getting access to, you know, and, you know, kind of led down this.
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Why do you think they talked? Why do you think they spoke to you?
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I think a lot of these guys were, you know, they've kept the secret for so many years. They knew me. They knew what I was looking into, you know, we reported to the deputy secretary of defense in Congress at the time with the UAP task force.
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And I think they wanted some change. At least that's what they expoused to me is.
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Why do you think they want to change?
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You know, they felt that they were kind of limited and bringing people in, the support they were getting, their treatment was harsh sometimes.
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And I guess they weren't really feeling the love anymore.
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What's the first moment where you saw irrefutable evidence that what you're dealing with is truth, is reality.
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I mean, there were certain military cases, you know, we were analyzing that I just really couldn't explain in a prosaic fashion.
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What can you tell me about these craft? Why do you know it's exotic based on the very specific properties that I was briefed on, you know, isotopic ratios that would have to be engineered for it to be at those levels.
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And then of course, you know, read some, you know, intel reports that were provided to me in that regard. And, you know, I took that and I went to the agencies that, you know, wrote those reports and asked for access.
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And when I, when they deny you access and you know, it's a thing. So it's, it's, and that's what happened to me time after time of a couple of years.
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So what, like, there wasn't a singular moment where you're like, just open the folder and you go, what the fuck is that?
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It was kind of like a slow burn culmination as I was processing it, you know, allowing my world view to open.
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And yeah, I don't know if there was a singular moment. I think it was, you know, some of the really, really trusted high level people we talked to when they stared us straight into face very seriously and, you know, confirmed a lot of this information.
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And the quality of people we talked to, if they ever go public, it'll blow your mind who we talked to. I was like, wow, I can't believe I'm talking to X who's a really important person.
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And they're confirming these certain details and they're saying like, you know, we need to protect us at all costs and they're giving me kind of the whole speech about it.
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And I'm sitting there as like an out of body experience. I'm like, okay, well, this is a thing.
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I never worked anybody and there is no plan. I'm not a partisan like slow drip disclosure or anything.
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Like if there is a plan, I'm totally unwitting and holy shit, they like control me in a very passive manner that is like master class.
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Right. But yeah, I'm not a part of some weird shit, you know, that uh...
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Did you ever at any point try to suss out whether you were being lied to because all these people are coming from the same programs?
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And so presumably there's some level of coordination between them. So how do you kind of get through and just make sure that they're not, you know, meeting in some back room saying you say this today.
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I'll say this today, you know.
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You know, for sure. So like I thought maybe it was like a joke or something. Maybe it was like a sigh. I'm here or something. I don't even know.
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And then but the, you know, only or 40 people we talk to a lot of the guys, my entire career. And like they wouldn't lie to me. I have like a friendship with them.
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And for them to, you know, disclose to me that kind of stuff and it ended up being a false.
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But it totally torpedoed the friendship. And I also went out of my way to find people who don't know each other either.
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And I had other, higher ranking colleagues in mind go talk to other people that I didn't even personally talk to.
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That group of course we took all that. And I'm like all the people who conducted those interviews.
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I made them get interviewed by the inspector general because we're cross on our teeth here because this shit is crazy.
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And I was, I mean, you can never be perfect. But man, I was so freaking careful to make sure I wasn't getting fed some bullshit.
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If they were in coordination together on this info campaign, holy fuck, I shouldn't even be an intel officer because I should have, you know, sniffed that shit out.
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In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues?
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There's a Chris Mellon story where he's supposed to meet with somebody on the program and he has the meeting all set up.
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And two weeks before the meeting, he says that the guy just randomly has a heart attack.
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We were about two weeks away from meeting when he died when he had a heart attack.
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What was the last special access program that leaked? They don't generally.
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People are like, oh, dude, wouldn't it be broadly leaked or whatever? I'm like, as somebody who is super cleared to a lot of that conventional stuff over the years, stuff never leaks.
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Yeah. It doesn't come out. There are plenty of things that are pretty serious. They're broad. That I've never seen a light of day.
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Of course, you're going to tell someone that their entire life and their family and their kids, everything is in danger.
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It doesn't feel too far-fetched that someone will keep a secret if it threatens their life.
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Yeah, in their life. Look, dude, you're not getting promoted. You're going to lose your job.
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You know, the psychology of the typical career government worker, right?
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Stable paycheck, pension, maintain clearance. So if any of that's threatened, you know, they're going to capitulate most cases, right?
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The threatening nature of some of their indoctrinations where they're like, this is treason. You're going to leavenworth. If you ever tell anybody not in the program, and oh, by the way, what's the penalty for treason?
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Oh, right. Execution, right? And I was like, well, well, fuck it. I'll be the mouthpiece for you. I'll be the leader, I guess.
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And I will shepherd you privately to the appropriate people that could be a recipient of your disclosure. You don't have to go public, but I'll do the thing.
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I mean, you know, it's not just me that, you know, as come forward really, because I mean, Schumer, Rubio, all those guys are like, look, a bunch of freaking high level officers came to us.
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And either they're crazy or the shit's real.
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Most of these people at some point, or maybe even currently, have held very high appearances in high positions within our government.
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And then Schumer was compelled to write that big 64 page amendment, the talks, no shit, nonhuman tech, recoveries.
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And you're the majority leader who's tight with the president putting out a law that will be signed here, hopefully, this fall that really puts the fuck an executive in a bind.
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So I don't think that that was done in a vacuum.
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I think the one thing that can get the left and the right together is bloat in the military industrial.
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Yeah, no peasants there. And, you know, nobody likes that. I don't think members of Congress don't like any door shut on them either.
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So they want that information because they represent the constituency.
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And that was the Mackade story.
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Several months ago, my office received a protected disclosure from Eglon Air Force Base indicating that there was a UAP incident that required my attention.
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We were not afforded access to all of the flight crew.
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It was basically denied access to a crew that had seen kind of a diamond shape formation of orbs.
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He should be fully clued into if, you know, it is terrestrial and origin because he's over there.
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He's on the armed services committee.
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If you could just name anything, titles, programs, departments, regions.
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I'd be happy to give you that in a close environment. I can tell you specifically.
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Maybe in a, if we could get it, get in a confidential area of skiff, we could talk about that.
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But unfortunately, we were denied access to the skiff.
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A lot of the narrative for the whole thing was that you were denied a skiff.
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What the skiff stands for just for people?
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It was a specialized compartment and information facility.
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Which basically means that you guys would just get into a secure place where you can share.
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Yeah, that's a facility that's accredited to talk at the top secret sensitive compartment and information level.
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The members were pretty incensed that I believe it was like they couldn't reserve a skiff and then they couldn't give me a one-time read-on back into the right accesses since I left the government.
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Do you have any sense of why that was denied?
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I don't know. I don't really have insight. It was something they mentioned to me.
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It was security or something denied it.
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If you believe we have crashed craft stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?
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As I've stated publicly already in my news nation interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries.
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Were they, I guess, human or non-human biologics?
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Non-human and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still on the program.
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One sort of bombshell sound bite from the hearing is Congresswoman Nancy Mase asked you about biologics.
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Ross Kuthart in the news nation interview asked you about pilots coming out of these crafts. Do you want to just speak to that a little bit?
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Yeah, I mean, it is a mind-blowing side of it, right?
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It's a little easy to imagine an artifact or whatever, but when you start talking about the biological side of it,
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it really throws you for a loop psychologically.
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It did for me, and I talked to the people that were on that aspect of the program, if you will, and it comes with a territory, I mean, buckle up, I guess.
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I call them pilots because that's like our vernacular.
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I don't know what their actual job was.
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Non-human intelligence, but they had bodies.
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Were they alive? Were they dead?
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I don't want to get into specifics. Yeah, I know a lot of that stuff.
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I have curiously why are you allowed to say that NHI pilots came out of the craft, but you can't.
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Well, that's all I put in the pre-publication stuff I got approved. I mean, I could go back and ask for more.
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But like I said earlier, man, like, not your face, not your job.
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Yeah, and it's helpful context for the audience to realize that you literally have like these contours with with with you have to operate with these.
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Any specific knowledge I garnered when I was on the other side of the door, if I want to talk about that publicly,
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everybody who has had a job like I have has to submit it to a thing called DOPSER at the Pentagon,
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DOD Pre-Publication and Security Review, you know, even if it's about this stuff, like I know it sounds insane, but like you literally have to say,
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like this is what I want to talk about. Why do you think they approved it? Catch 22, because so they'd have to self-identify and highlight their concerns to redact.
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So the office who would propose a redaction say it's a three-letter agency or whatever, right?
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They had to be like this office objected to you saying crash retrievals, here we're citing the security classification guide, no.
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And then you can litigate that, right? To get it unredacted if you think that's an inappropriate application of security.
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If it got redacted like that and it cited what organization and what security reason it is, I would just publish that.
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And then the public can understand, you know, make its own interpretation why, you know, the US government's withholding information about that kind of thing and wanted to sequester my speech.
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So it's a catch 22, honestly, for them, and DM if they do, DM if they don't, I just wanted to put enough out there, touch on all the most sensitive parts, like the biologic side,
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and like things that really need to come out. But I don't want to overly disclose, because it's not my job, but enough to, you know, put the flag out there that we need to elevate this as a serious, some of the uncomfortable stuff, like the biologic stuff, like I mentioned during the hearing.
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You got to realize some baggage is coming with it besides, you know, the Indiana Jones warehouse thing that everybody thinks.
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Why do the politicians, like why do people hire up feel like they need to hide their like evidence, or like I'm just like the root cause, like why is this like a topic that's similar?
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Yeah, I mean, I can only know what the mindset was, you know, multiple decades ago, and like anything in government, there was this is the change. So this is the way we set it up.
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You remember, trusting government was high back in the 40s post war, and then also society was less secular. So there's, you know, they're worried about the religious ontological shocks as well.
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And they never really developed a local disclosure plan for what it's worth, and they just were like, this is the way it's been, and we're going to keep it that way, and we don't want Russia and China to be exposed to any of this info. And, you know, we don't want to give them an edge. Unfortunately, it's that kind of kind of low energy thinking.
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If you got to ask one question to ask someone who is not alive anymore, that you feel could answer a lot for you. Who would you pick and what would the question be?
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I would probably ask starbocker, Oppenheimer, and be like, what was your thought process in the 40s and 50s, you know, scrolling this away, I mean, besides overlaying the Manhattan Project secrecy, because often I was the one who created the classification that included the UFO stuff.
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And all those guys, the guys that were involved in Manhattan were overlaying the same ecosystem of secrecy and some of the same ways to protect stuff that they were protecting on nuclear secrets.
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If you read the definition of special nuclear material in the public atomic energy act in 1954, it basically states any material that releases any kind of atomic energy.
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Retrieved crash material. So it's kind of a sneaky way.
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No, it is. If you actually read the atomic energy act. If something is not a nuke, but it has radiological energy coming off it, you know, alpha, beta decay, whatever, same secrecy.
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Until now, we haven't really had an exact understanding of the mechanisms of UFO secrecy.
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We do get a few hints throughout history though.
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In 1947, in the aftermath of frequent UFO sightings across the United States, Nathan
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Twining, the head of all aircraft development for the Air Force, wrote a famous letter.
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He writes that the UFO phenomena is something real and not visionary or fictitious.
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Everyone today focuses on this part of the now famous Twining Mema.
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That top brass at the Air Force is conceding the reality of UFOs.
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But the far more interesting part of the letter is the post script, where he writes about
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the possibility of American programs trying to build crafts with these capabilities.
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He writes that any developments in this country along the lines indicated would be extremely
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expensive, time consuming, and that the considerable expense of current projects.
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And therefore, if directed, should be set up independently of existing projects.
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If you were the military industrial complex and had to keep a top secret UFO reverse engineering
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program fully shielded from elected civilian representatives moving in and out of government,
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which past programs might be your inspiration?
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The Manhattan Project.
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The Manhattan Project, they were kind of the first blue book.
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They were getting UFO reports back in the day.
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There are some people I'm colleagues with that like their grandparents were actually
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the UFO report people on the Manhattan Project.
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This is a wild revelation.
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Blue Book was the Air Force's official program tasked with investigating UFOs in the 50s and
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But it was basically a propaganda mouthpiece for the Air Force, explaining away and downplaying
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the phenomena for the public.
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Here Dave is saying that there might have been a real deeper program than Blue Book studying
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And it was probably very tied in with the Manhattan Project.
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Legendary French UFO researcher Jacques Vallet told me the exact same thing.
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Project Blue Book was the best they could do at the time because they felt they had a real
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project going on that was secret.
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The Manhattan Project would have a custody of it and then it would go into the atomic
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energy commission and then it would go into the Department of Energy which has its own
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line of parenthesis.
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But where were these top secret UFO programs taking place?
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Well the first hint we get might actually come from the quintessential UFO story, the
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Roswell crash in 1947.
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As the story goes, in 1947 mysterious debris from a crash was retrieved by a rancher named
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After collecting the wreckage, the Roswell Army airfield issued a pretty insane press release,
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stating that a flying disc had been retrieved from a local ranch.
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But within 24 hours the military announced that the saucer had actually just been a weather
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Cut to 1978, Lieutenant Colonel Jesse Marcel said that this was all just a cover story
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to divert public attention away from the truth.
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That the Roswell debris was extraterrestrial tech which contained bizarre hieroglyphics
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and malleable memory metal.
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According to him, the materials were eventually taken to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in
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This actually makes sense.
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Wright Pat was the place that the military would take enemy equipment in order to reverse
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In fact, just a few years earlier, the base was used to successfully reverse engineer
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a German pulse jet engine.
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When prominent elected government representatives would ask what was going on at Wright Patterson,
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they would get shut down.
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It didn't matter who they were, senators, presidential candidates, even presidents, if
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you didn't have a need to know you were on the outside.
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I called Curtis LaMille and I said, General, I know we have a room at Wright Patterson where
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you put all this secret stuff.
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I've never heard him get mad.
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Don't ever ask me that question.
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It's like, well, what's going on?
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Why would General May act like that to a sitting senator?
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So unless you're George H.W. Bush, Bush 41, who is director of the CIA as the president
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of the United States, you probably don't even know.
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Unless you've done the blood oath and you were like the CIA director, something private
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Unless you have to stroke a pen, assign an executive order or something, well, why would
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you have a need to know unless you literally, as the commander-in-chief, need to know
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it to make a decision?
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What else was housed at Wright Patterson?
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Well, it would become a nuclear engineering test facility and an anti-gravity research center.
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It also was the site for Blue Book, the anti-UFO's Sci-op that the Air Force ran in the
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So when you're running a secret UFO program, you have people working on the UFOs, and
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then you have people working on throwing the public off the trail, and basically ensuring
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that they have no idea what you're doing.
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The official Air Force reply is long, then, that there is no cover-up.
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You know, I've seen this other conventional programs.
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You compartment it so much.
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You know, some people don't know really what they're working on.
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And then, you know, some people that have the top level accesses can look down on all
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facets of the pyramid, as we say, and that hinders progress.
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And then, certainly, with this subject, when you're trying to crack an unknown, unknown,
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that kind of a two-security doesn't help either.
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When you say unknown, unknown, you know, is it the USB drive to a caveman analogy, where
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it's like the caveman doesn't know information theory, doesn't have a computer to plug the
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USB drive into, and we just don't even know where to start in terms of reverse engineering
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Yeah, it's like other people have given the analogies, like giving Galileo, T-I-D, T-I-D
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3-plus graph and calculator.
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They open it up and they see circuitry, and they're like, well, what is even this?
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I don't have a concept of a transistor.
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But even that, or like a monkey with an iPhone, you kind of know how to, yeah, if you open
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it up, be sure you're confused, but you kind of know how to press the buttons, and you
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realize there's this graphical interface or whatever.
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That seems easier than caveman with the USB drive, so.
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Like, where are we in that?
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Yeah, I mean, some of it is hard to gauge how far in advance it is, because you're just
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assuming a certain linear progression.
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You know, I think some of this is they made an asymptotal leap that, you know, put them
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over the edge to a different kind of plane of...
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Yeah, I remember that.
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...like a different timeline almost.
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How was it betting, man, some of this NHI?
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They're similarly as advanced as us, but they've just made, they've, what is it, asymmetric
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evolution or whatever, they want a different path where we made nuclear weapons and stuff.
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They ended up making this like civil propulsion kind of equivalent...
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...discovery where they're able to do this now, but they're actually not that much more
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advanced than you and I.
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I always found interesting, you know, sort of the monolith in 2001 space, honestly, which
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is this sort of thing placed on Earth that it inspires tech innovation.
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It's almost like John Mack would talk about a lot of these alien sightings being slightly
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more advanced, but barely comprehensible tech for the time, almost inspiring tech innovation.
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I often think of it as laying bread crumbs in a direction.
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The communication could be, you think you're really small because you blew up a weapon
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No, no, look at this.
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Right, right, right.
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Well, it's just like, you know, we went from, you look at our own human development,
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you know, we immediately, once we cracked the atom, I mean, holy crap, nuclear power,
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two weapons, you know, we went from, you know, orders of magnitude of energy extraction,
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right, up to, you know, 10 to the six tons of TNT equivalent.
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And that's kind of what we're talking about is like, we're like one, you know, discovery
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away to, you know, maybe manipulate space time or whatever.
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Based off of the information that you've been privy to, is there any indication that these
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UAPs are interested in our nuclear technology and capabilities?
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By external observation, sure, that could be a fair assessment.
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The nuclear UFO connection is deeper and more bizarre than you can ever imagine.
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For that vice story that ran in 2022 about a town in Japan that's obsessed with UFOs,
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well, it's a place called Ena.
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And it's right next to Fukushima, where a 2011 earthquake triggered a famous nuclear
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power meltdown or take this incident in 1994.
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62 elementary school kids at the Aerial International School in Zimbabwe said that they saw a silver
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craft descend from the sky and land on a field near their school.
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Well, guess where the Aerial School was.
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And you know, an area of school that was near a uranium mining site.
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That's what I understand.
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But maybe the best collection of evidence around the UFO nuclear connection comes from a
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very creatively named book called UFOs in NUX by Robert Hastings.
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He started to investigate and just speak to all these radar operators.
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And a lot of them claim some pretty crazy things around seeing UFOs around nuclear bases.
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So over the past 37 years, I have personally located and are interviewed more than 120
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of these former or retired military personnel.
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Do you have Marabra Salis at Malmstrom saying that the whole base was actually rendered
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This time he was screaming into the fall and saying they're looking at an object, a red glowing
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Yeah, the sites were going down.
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Like, one of them down.
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Very rarely does a missile malfunction.
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I don't think any much more rare would be two at the same time, but never 10.
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The Bob Jacobs at Vandenberg in 64 is a photo instrumentation specialist.
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They're launching dummy nuclear warheads off of gallous five missiles and seeing the UFO
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kind of wrap around it and take it down.
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And I said, it looks like we got a UFO.
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You have hundreds of accounts of these missile man radar operators at nuclear sites who
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have no incentive to lie.
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In many cases, the incentive are on all cases.
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The incentives split in the other direction saying that they're seeing stuff.
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Well, no, the missile leaders, you know, they're on what they call PRP personal reliability
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Like, they have to like report it.
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They're like, you know, take an ibuprofen for God's sakes because, you know, they're
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a key turner for nuclear weapons.
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These missile leaders go through the most stringent of mental health exams to get their jobs.
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They're literally the people we task with hitting the button that sends a nuke.
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By definition, they are the picture of mental health and they are all steeped in a culture
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that frowns upon attention seeking.
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Time and time again, these missile men would see UFOs near nuclear facilities and without
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fail, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations would show up men in black style, confiscate
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the footage, threaten the witness and swear them to see for some reason.
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And he said, Lieutenant Jacobs, you are never to speak of this again.
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From Hastings work, we now know that UFO sightings were happening all across American
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nuclear production, missile storage and deployment sites.
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Plutonium enrichment sites like Hanford, Washington and Savannah River site in South Carolina.
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To nuclear stockpiles, it forthood Texas and killing base camps.
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From Los Alamos to San Dia to Malmstrom to F.E. Warren, the list goes on.
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What is the connection with nuclear?
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Is it the kind of benevolent protector theory they don't want us to destroy ourselves
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or is it some weird like they're mining us for something and so they want to protect
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their resources or is it the power unlock thing where we could rip space time and maybe
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be able to travel like they can travel.
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And so nuclear power is the access along which we're making progress towards that.
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Yeah, I mean, it might be as simple as like it's an attractant like a fly or a mosquito
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to a blue light, right?
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It could be something as simple as that.
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I mean, it's so hard because to put yourself in a different sentient shoes to understand
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intent and all that.
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I mean, could be probing, could be reconnaissance, could be just mere curiosity.
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Yes, you know, oh, there are only two or three orders of magnitude away, energy extraction
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from manipulating space time and an occupier, warp drive type thing and maybe they're interested
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in that too to understand our development as a civilization.
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I mean, without having, you know, a penetration into their utelope or whatever, whatever
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we really know, it could be all the above.
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Yeah, and it's really impossible to really ever gauge in time.
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The controller told us that these objects had been observed for over two weeks coming
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down from over 80,000 feet, rapidly descending to 20,000 feet, hanging out for hours and then
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going straight back up for those don't realize more 80,000 feet of space.
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It's just this cat and mouse sort of recursive unsolvability where it's just very hard to
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It's almost like playing with you a little bit.
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Even Commander David Fraver in his account was like, the thing felt like it was like breathing
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and looking at me and knew, even setting, you let it slip in that type of thing.
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It was like, it definitely was a wear of our existence.
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I'm like, how do you know that, man?
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I'm not in the Europe of the shoes, but I understand what he was saying, which is you
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can sense when somebody's looking at you.
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Yeah, I know I've had some folks I talked to that had their own kind of up close kind
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They said that they got that vibe too.
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And who knows if that's like a somatic or what, but they did get a vibe like that too.
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When you stare into the abyss long enough, the abyss stares back.
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And then of course, I've had a very smart guy.
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I was like, well, the Darwin care to fully conceal himself when he studied the finches.
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And it's like they observe, they don't really care.
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And they don't really care to interact, but they're just here to observe.
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But is that your bias that it's sort of an anthropological zoological model where they
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are like studying us and we're in this kind of country that's kind of like that?
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Yeah, I think, you know, I'll give credit to Lou for the whole grill in the cage and, you
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know, throw it up banana, throw it at the key and see if
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it can unlock the cage and maybe that's what's, you know, some of these crashes were.
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And it wasn't really a mission failure, if you will.
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It was, you know, maybe some seeding.
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This is a total theoretical framework here.
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So it's like, whatever really knows.
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Yeah, see what you can do with it.
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Or the key is nuclear power or something.
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And it's like the gorilla has, we have the key.
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And another analogy that Eric Weinstein loves to use is he talks about North Sentinel Island,
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which is an island of aboriginals who basically have not made any contact with civilizations
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off the coast of India.
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And the Indian government basically just lets them do their thing and kind of respects them.
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And take this analogy.
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If the North Sentinelese started developing nukes, maybe the Indian government would start
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to pay a little more attention.
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To the extent that there is interference, I think one anomaly that's important to talk
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about is it seems to be like there's a lot of electromagnetic radiation that comes off
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And I remember talking to Gary Nolan and he mentioned that he was kind of given a file
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And he was tasked with looking into this and it was two things.
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It was people who had anomalous UFO experiences and it was people who had experienced a van
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Diplomats and spies began to hear sounds and full ill with a mysterious illness that people
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struggle to explain what became known as Havana syndrome.
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And in both cases you have these kind of severe electromagnetic radiation effects and often
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differences in the Codate nucleus and Potaymon which is in the basal ganglia, the dorsal
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striatum, the brain, the scarring.
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But also the neuronal density of that area of the brain would cause somebody to even make
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But do we have any theories on kind of the electromagnetic radiation component?
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I mean certainly we were to look at it from like a relativistic perspective.
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Well that sounds like visible band light being blue shifted into ultraviolet and you're
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getting literally a sunburn.
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And if you look at an occupier type thing where you know light is getting lens around the
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Stuff should be blue and red shifting.
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So things coming towards you would actually red shift spectrally and the people getting
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like burns so that's ultraviolet, that's like ionizing radiation.
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So that would be light being blue shifted into the ultraviolet as it's lens across the
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bubble that the craft creates.
[0:39:19 - 0:39:21] ▶
And so we are seeing artifacts that seem to show that they're basically manipulating
[0:39:21 - 0:39:28] ▶
And I guess that's why you get this sort of skipping across time effect or something.
[0:39:29 - 0:39:34] ▶
It looks like the things are just, you're sort of literally folding space time I guess.
[0:39:34 - 0:39:39] ▶
So you can get from point A to point.
[0:39:39 - 0:39:41] ▶
You're riding a wave basically, you create a wave and you're on top of the tsunami wave
[0:39:41 - 0:39:46] ▶
in you're riding across space time.
[0:39:46 - 0:39:48] ▶
And then of course there's the other thing is if it's like an Einstein Rosenbridge thing,
[0:39:49 - 0:39:55] ▶
two points on a piece of paper and you fold it but the way they're jumping around and
[0:39:55 - 0:40:00] ▶
skipping is if you're riding the wave it looks like you're moving very rapidly and punctuated
[0:40:00 - 0:40:09] ▶
kind of movements because if you think of it a accordion and there's wave, the wave
[0:40:09 - 0:40:14] ▶
or you're riding as you're quoting when you flatten out the accordion like flat space
[0:40:14 - 0:40:17] ▶
You would smoothly move across.
[0:40:18 - 0:40:20] ▶
But I think we're stuck with like Einstein stuff was amazing and nobody's really, I mean
[0:40:20 - 0:40:26] ▶
there's obviously people with you know string theory, M.B.A., all these other different physics
[0:40:26 - 0:40:32] ▶
theories, you know quantum gravity, other theories.
[0:40:32 - 0:40:35] ▶
But you know there hasn't been something that's you know unified all the week in the strong
[0:40:35 - 0:40:39] ▶
force etc and that's an ongoing thing and they think you know finding the Higgs boson
[0:40:39 - 0:40:44] ▶
is going to be the big answer.
[0:40:44 - 0:40:45] ▶
So speaking of string theory it feels like it just hasn't shipped a product.
[0:40:47 - 0:40:51] ▶
You have our best and brightest often really smart people getting into this sort of field
[0:40:51 - 0:40:57] ▶
that you know maybe you can detect black holes with strings but generally it's just not
[0:40:57 - 0:41:01] ▶
Well string theory, I mean mathematically you know I get it works out right but like most
[0:41:02 - 0:41:08] ▶
of the stuff you can't empirically observe because the strings are so small and subatomically
[0:41:08 - 0:41:13] ▶
there's just like no way of measuring.
[0:41:13 - 0:41:16] ▶
There's like no way of verifying that.
[0:41:16 - 0:41:18] ▶
It's a nice I'll call it like overlay or that maybe this is reality maybe it's not
[0:41:18 - 0:41:25] ▶
I think it's force fitting GR you know general relativity and quantum field theory.
[0:41:26 - 0:41:31] ▶
But this brings up an interesting question which is can we go down the tree trunk of physics
[0:41:31 - 0:41:35] ▶
and then find another branch.
[0:41:35 - 0:41:39] ▶
Clearly quantum physics with nuclear and hydrogen bombs as its byproducts was becoming
[0:41:39 - 0:41:44] ▶
It is an atomic bomb.
[0:41:46 - 0:41:47] ▶
It is a harnessing of the basic power of the universe.
[0:41:47 - 0:41:51] ▶
After the invention of these apocalyptic weapons was true fundamental physics then concealed
[0:41:51 - 0:41:57] ▶
in deep black aerospace while public facing physics was sent into a cul-de-sac so it could
[0:41:57 - 0:42:02] ▶
Were there actually updates in physics maybe mid-century that were not disclosed to the
[0:42:06 - 0:42:11] ▶
Okay I realize this sounds kind of insane but hear me out.
[0:42:14 - 0:42:20] ▶
The golden age of relativity was a wild forgotten time in the history of American physics.
[0:42:20 - 0:42:26] ▶
This was a period in the 50s where the study of anti-gravity yeah you heard me right anti-gravity
[0:42:26 - 0:42:32] ▶
experienced a dramatic resurgence of interest not just among quacks among real physicists.
[0:42:32 - 0:42:39] ▶
Since then there has been a study by constant improvement.
[0:42:39 - 0:42:42] ▶
Roger Babson a patron of science was obsessed with finding the solution to anti-gravity.
[0:42:42 - 0:42:48] ▶
His gravity research foundation held a popular essay contest which garnered contributions
[0:42:48 - 0:42:53] ▶
for many of the top minds at the time.
[0:42:53 - 0:42:56] ▶
Meanwhile another industrialist Agnew Bainson started the Institute of Field Physics in
[0:42:56 - 0:43:01] ▶
North Carolina also dedicated to the study of anti-gravity.
[0:43:01 - 0:43:05] ▶
His Chapel Hill Conference in 1957 included top physicists like Bryce DeWitt, Richard
[0:43:05 - 0:43:10] ▶
Feynman, Peter Bergman, Freeman Dyson and John Wheeler all there to discuss the role
[0:43:10 - 0:43:16] ▶
of gravity in physics.
[0:43:16 - 0:43:18] ▶
As physicist Lewis Witten would go on to say about anti-gravity in the 50s it was in the
[0:43:18 - 0:43:23] ▶
wind meaning it was everywhere.
[0:43:23 - 0:43:25] ▶
He said what are you doing about anti-gravity and I said well I'm not against gravity.
[0:43:25 - 0:43:35] ▶
Witten actually worked in Martin Corporation's anti-gravity research unit that's right they
[0:43:35 - 0:43:40] ▶
had an anti-gravity research outfit.
[0:43:40 - 0:43:42] ▶
It was called Research Institute for Advanced Studies or RIS for short and Martin Corporation
[0:43:42 - 0:43:48] ▶
of course would later become Lockheed Martin.
[0:43:48 - 0:43:51] ▶
Lewis Witten's direct boss at RIS was a guy named George Trimble.
[0:43:51 - 0:43:56] ▶
In a 1956 article found in Jane's Defense Weekly George Trimble said we're already
[0:43:56 - 0:44:01] ▶
working on nuclear fuels and equipment to cancel out gravity and added that the conquest
[0:44:01 - 0:44:07] ▶
of gravity could be done in about the amount of time it took to build the first atom bomb.
[0:44:07 - 0:44:12] ▶
By the time the 60s had rolled around most people had kind of forgotten about anti-gravity.
[0:44:12 - 0:44:16] ▶
It quieted down because no way we got anywhere or quieted down because it did get somewhere
[0:44:16 - 0:44:22] ▶
It is kind of weird where as far as I know in my kind of topological physics history knowledge
[0:44:23 - 0:44:29] ▶
where there's all these anti-gravity groups up until the early 60s and then they totally
[0:44:29 - 0:44:37] ▶
You know that there's physics knowledge held by aerospace companies that is not known.
[0:44:38 - 0:44:43] ▶
There certainly is materials knowledge.
[0:44:43 - 0:44:45] ▶
It was well, okay material science.
[0:44:45 - 0:44:47] ▶
Which involves topological physics or whatever.
[0:44:47 - 0:44:50] ▶
It's hard to say whether anything real was discovered in the realm of anti-gravity or
[0:44:50 - 0:44:54] ▶
But when aviation journalists Nick Cook tried to meet with the then long retired 80 something
[0:44:55 - 0:45:01] ▶
year old George Trimble through a friend of his at Lockheed Martin this was the message
[0:45:01 - 0:45:05] ▶
Quote unquote, I don't know who this old man is or what he once was but he told me in
[0:45:07 - 0:45:13] ▶
no uncertain terms to get off his case.
[0:45:13 - 0:45:16] ▶
He doesn't want to speak to me and he doesn't want to speak to you.
[0:45:16 - 0:45:19] ▶
I don't mind telling you that he sounded scared.
[0:45:20 - 0:45:24] ▶
Did deep black aerospace secretly make a huge breakthrough in anti-gravity?
[0:45:24 - 0:45:28] ▶
Well when he worked for Martin in the 50s Lewis Witten specialized in non-linear algebra
[0:45:28 - 0:45:33] ▶
and topological physics.
[0:45:33 - 0:45:35] ▶
The two things that you'd need to investigate gravity and maybe how to beat it.
[0:45:35 - 0:45:40] ▶
He also did contract work on gravity for Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
[0:45:40 - 0:45:45] ▶
The reason there was a laboratory at Wright Field was to find out what we were doing
[0:45:45 - 0:45:50] ▶
and to help us do it and I got a contract for Wright Field to do it.
[0:45:50 - 0:45:56] ▶
Which I did for heaven.
[0:45:57 - 0:45:59] ▶
And who is Lewis Witten's son?
[0:45:59 - 0:46:02] ▶
Just the most formidable proponent of string theory maybe of all time.
[0:46:03 - 0:46:07] ▶
Do you think that string theory which Ed Witten worked on is intentionally a bridge to
[0:46:07 - 0:46:12] ▶
I have privately said to you that string theory was a very odd development because it both
[0:46:13 - 0:46:19] ▶
allowed physics to proceed as if it was doing something new while breaking no new ground
[0:46:19 - 0:46:26] ▶
in the physical world in which we live.
[0:46:26 - 0:46:30] ▶
I don't really know if you were trying to stagnate the field.
[0:46:30 - 0:46:33] ▶
string theory is pretty brilliant.
[0:46:33 - 0:46:38] ▶
And remember that Chapel Hill conference that's thrown in 1957 by Agnew Banson who's obsessed
[0:46:38 - 0:46:43] ▶
Well, Lewis Witten was there and the conference helped establish quantum gravity of which string
[0:46:45 - 0:46:50] ▶
theory is an offshoot.
[0:46:50 - 0:46:52] ▶
In an interview with the American Institute of Physics when anti-gravity gets brought
[0:46:52 - 0:46:56] ▶
up, Lewis Witten says, a guy named Townsend discovered that there was a type of bismuth
[0:46:56 - 0:47:02] ▶
that was repelled instead of attracting.
[0:47:02 - 0:47:04] ▶
There was a vice president of the Martin company who brought that up.
[0:47:04 - 0:47:08] ▶
He said, I read the Balekai in Indiana who says the Brock of Bismuth that shows anti-gravity.
[0:47:08 - 0:47:14] ▶
And where have we heard about Bismuth with possible anti-gravity properties before?
[0:47:14 - 0:47:19] ▶
That's Gary Nolan, Stanford microbiologist and Nobel nominee who claims to have UFO crash
[0:47:19 - 0:47:25] ▶
parts with isotope ratios that don't occur naturally on Earth.
[0:47:25 - 0:47:30] ▶
One of his pieces that we looked at together when I visited was magnesium bismuth.
[0:47:30 - 0:47:35] ▶
Bismuth's layers of less than the human hair supposedly picked up in the crash retrieval
[0:47:35 - 0:47:40] ▶
of an advanced aerospace vehicle.
[0:47:40 - 0:47:43] ▶
No where could be find any evidence that anybody ever made one of these.
[0:47:43 - 0:47:46] ▶
And who's this Townsend guy Witten's referring to?
[0:47:46 - 0:47:50] ▶
Witten had to have been talking about Townsend Brown, one of the country's leading anti-gravity
[0:47:50 - 0:47:54] ▶
researchers at the time.
[0:47:54 - 0:48:01] ▶
Yeah, and there's a guy named Townsend Brown who had a theory that if you took two charge
[0:48:01 - 0:48:07] ▶
plates and then you put something neutral between them, the neutral thing would sort of
[0:48:07 - 0:48:10] ▶
gravitate a little towards the positively charged plate and you could basically figure out
[0:48:10 - 0:48:16] ▶
From the outside, Townsend Brown sort of looks like an amateurish mid-century physicist
[0:48:17 - 0:48:22] ▶
and failed inventor, exploring the kooky world of anti-gravity just to end up failing and
[0:48:22 - 0:48:28] ▶
creating the intellectual property behind the Ionic Breeze air purifier.
[0:48:28 - 0:48:32] ▶
I'm not joking, but a great biography called The Man Who Master Gravity by Paul Schatzkin
[0:48:32 - 0:48:38] ▶
tells the real story.
[0:48:38 - 0:48:39] ▶
He parachuted behind enemy lines into Germany in 1944 and started looking into the German
[0:48:39 - 0:48:49] ▶
UFO reverse engineering program.
[0:48:49 - 0:48:53] ▶
OSS and MI6 Super Spies, Bill Donovan and William Stevenson, needed the Allies' preeminent
[0:48:53 - 0:48:59] ▶
anti-gravity scientist to investigate the notorious food fighter phenomena.
[0:48:59 - 0:49:04] ▶
These were bizarre orbs that looked like intelligently controlled ball lightning popping up all over
[0:49:04 - 0:49:10] ▶
Germany in the early 40s and messing with Allied fighter pilots.
[0:49:10 - 0:49:18] ▶
I couldn't find a ton of corroboration outside of Schatzkin's book on this story, but
[0:49:18 - 0:49:22] ▶
here's why I think it's true.
[0:49:22 - 0:49:24] ▶
We do know for a fact that Eisenhower sent General James Doolittle to investigate Swedish
[0:49:24 - 0:49:30] ▶
These were tons of UFO sightings in Sweden and Finland in the immediate aftermath of World
[0:49:31 - 0:49:36] ▶
Curiously, Doolittle then went back to the United States just to found the Lindbergh Foundation,
[0:49:37 - 0:49:42] ▶
which researched novel aviation propulsion methods.
[0:49:42 - 0:49:46] ▶
So I wouldn't be totally surprised if Townsend Brown was tasked with the same thing with
[0:49:46 - 0:49:49] ▶
I mean, there's some other stuff too that I can't talk about that was way before that
[0:49:51 - 0:49:55] ▶
that you're like, oh shit.
[0:49:55 - 0:49:58] ▶
But what did Browns work in anti-gravity have to do with UFOs?
[0:49:58 - 0:50:01] ▶
While his gravitate looked exactly like a flying saucer.
[0:50:01 - 0:50:04] ▶
He found that circular craft were better for that application than wing craft.
[0:50:04 - 0:50:10] ▶
And behind closed doors, Townsend Brown was obsessed with UFOs.
[0:50:10 - 0:50:15] ▶
He even created Nycap, the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena.
[0:50:15 - 0:50:20] ▶
When Townsend's daughter Linda Brown and his biographer requested the scientist's records
[0:50:20 - 0:50:24] ▶
from the Navy, they were at first very uncooperative and then eventually they hinted that a lot of
[0:50:24 - 0:50:30] ▶
Browns work was still classified.
[0:50:30 - 0:50:32] ▶
But why would Browns work be classified if he was just a failed hack?
[0:50:32 - 0:50:36] ▶
The National CPCI prevented scientists like T-Towns and Brown from commercializing
[0:50:36 - 0:50:40] ▶
any technology which could potentially be interpreted as having a military application.
[0:50:41 - 0:50:47] ▶
Well we know from Shotskins' biography that Brown actually had meetings with the highest
[0:50:47 - 0:50:52] ▶
level officials in American atomic programs.
[0:50:52 - 0:50:55] ▶
People like Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb, and General Curtis Lemay.
[0:50:55 - 0:51:00] ▶
Both deep insiders when it came to atomic secrets.
[0:51:00 - 0:51:03] ▶
Townsend Brown's daughter Linda even recalls that he was often taken home in a black catalact
[0:51:03 - 0:51:08] ▶
driven by a man that she would eventually come to know as Robert Sarbacher.
[0:51:08 - 0:51:12] ▶
And where have we heard that mysterious name before?
[0:51:12 - 0:51:15] ▶
Sarbacher, somebody purportedly involved in the stand-up of the stuff that I uncovered,
[0:51:15 - 0:51:20] ▶
But if you look deeper, things get even weirder with Brown.
[0:51:21 - 0:51:24] ▶
In the naval records that we do have, it shows that Brown was suddenly terminated by the
[0:51:24 - 0:51:28] ▶
Navy in 1942 with no explanation despite strong performance.
[0:51:28 - 0:51:33] ▶
Two weeks later, he mysteriously pops up as an employee at Martin Corporation in Burbank.
[0:51:33 - 0:51:39] ▶
Just 50 miles from where Skunkworks is founded a year later by legendary aeronautical engineer
[0:51:39 - 0:51:44] ▶
Skunkworks was created to house Martin's most advanced secretive work.
[0:51:46 - 0:51:50] ▶
Over 80% of its current projects are still classified.
[0:51:50 - 0:51:54] ▶
Is it a coincidence that Townsend Brown joined Martin Corporation a year before its founding?
[0:51:54 - 0:51:59] ▶
And guess who else funded Brown?
[0:51:59 - 0:52:01] ▶
One other than Agnew Bainson, the same anti-gravity financier who helped send physics into a dead
[0:52:01 - 0:52:06] ▶
end by popularizing quantum gravity.
[0:52:06 - 0:52:08] ▶
Okay, okay, Townsend Brown.
[0:52:08 - 0:52:09] ▶
I want to look bad at my part of it.
[0:52:09 - 0:52:13] ▶
One of the documentaries I believe.
[0:52:13 - 0:52:14] ▶
Because there is this cool nature relativity in the 50s and then everything sort of went
[0:52:14 - 0:52:18] ▶
And I think that's an interesting access for you guys to look into.
[0:52:19 - 0:52:22] ▶
Okay, this is all interesting.
[0:52:22 - 0:52:24] ▶
We don't have a smoking gun that any of Brown's work actually got implemented by Deep Black
[0:52:25 - 0:52:29] ▶
While that's actually not true, we kind of do have evidence.
[0:52:30 - 0:52:35] ▶
In March of 1992, Aviation Week broke a story about the B2 stealth bomb.
[0:52:35 - 0:52:41] ▶
It used an electro-canetic effect in its wings producing a biofield brown effect.
[0:52:41 - 0:52:46] ▶
The B2 surfs its own electrostatic wave, the negative cloud chasing the positive wind.
[0:52:46 - 0:52:51] ▶
This is an exact description of Townsend Brown's work.
[0:52:51 - 0:52:55] ▶
And the biofield brown effect is literally named after him.
[0:52:55 - 0:52:58] ▶
And the B2 was built by the merged Northrop Brumman, whose major investor, Floyd Oblem,
[0:52:58 - 0:53:03] ▶
was the same guy that invested in Townsend Brown's company, Guidance Technologies, in the
[0:53:03 - 0:53:08] ▶
I guess Townsend Brown isn't just the wacky fan guy anymore.
[0:53:09 - 0:53:13] ▶
There's just like this parallel history.
[0:53:13 - 0:53:24] ▶
It's very tightly coupled to what is known publicly, paperclip, etc.
[0:53:24 - 0:53:29] ▶
But there's just like other side of it that a lot of it dealt with the UFO-UIP issue
[0:53:29 - 0:53:34] ▶
Operation Paperclip was a secret CIA program that took more than 1600 former Nazi scientists
[0:53:36 - 0:53:42] ▶
and engineers and placed them in senior leadership roles in American military intelligence
[0:53:42 - 0:53:48] ▶
and space programs in the wake of World War II.
[0:53:48 - 0:53:51] ▶
The Germans made more progress than anybody at the time, just in aerospace, generally.
[0:53:51 - 0:53:56] ▶
The B2 flying rocket was 20, 30 years ahead.
[0:53:56 - 0:53:59] ▶
Yeah, M-262 jet fighter and the whole Wunderwaffe arsenal.
[0:53:59 - 0:54:05] ▶
And one has to ask, why do we have such a pressing need to get Warner von Braun and Arthur
[0:54:05 - 0:54:09] ▶
Rudolph and all these guys?
[0:54:09 - 0:54:11] ▶
The NASA Saturn program was literally a transplantation of the Nazi program.
[0:54:11 - 0:54:15] ▶
Why was there such a pressing need to get all these people in the US?
[0:54:15 - 0:54:19] ▶
Maybe it had something to do with the UFO thing, who knows?
[0:54:19 - 0:54:22] ▶
Because Warner von Braun is also a very trippy guy.
[0:54:22 - 0:54:25] ▶
Remember that story about towns and brown parachuting into Germany to investigate food fighters
[0:54:25 - 0:54:30] ▶
and Nazi UFO programs?
[0:54:30 - 0:54:32] ▶
Well maybe Operation Paperclip had a little more to do with UFOs than meets the eye.
[0:54:32 - 0:54:37] ▶
Yeah, Paperclip's pretty nuts when you think about it, like ethically and morally.
[0:54:37 - 0:54:41] ▶
You had people that were war criminals or people who were going to be tried at Norrnberg.
[0:54:41 - 0:54:46] ▶
They took off that and then they snatched them and brought them back to the US.
[0:54:47 - 0:54:50] ▶
And a lot of them became seniors of what became the CIA and NASA.
[0:54:50 - 0:54:55] ▶
And it's like, yeah, I don't know if that would have happened nowadays.
[0:54:56 - 0:54:59] ▶
I feel like we would actually not be able to turn a blind eye to the...
[0:54:59 - 0:55:03] ▶
Oh, there's no chance.
[0:55:03 - 0:55:04] ▶
Warner von Braun oversaw brutal, mostly Jewish slave labor camp,
[0:55:04 - 0:55:09] ▶
where tons and tons of people die.
[0:55:09 - 0:55:12] ▶
And then he went on to literally run our space program.
[0:55:13 - 0:55:16] ▶
It's pretty interesting history.
[0:55:16 - 0:55:18] ▶
Yeah, like his boss, like the German general, you know,
[0:55:19 - 0:55:24] ▶
von Braun worked for back in Germany, you know, you know, came over and was like very high up
[0:55:24 - 0:55:28] ▶
After so many witnesses have seen the so-called flying saucers,
[0:55:30 - 0:55:35] ▶
the existence cannot longer be denied.
[0:55:36 - 0:55:39] ▶
You know, it's kind of like getting red-pilled in the matrix.
[0:55:39 - 0:55:41] ▶
Reality is like way crazier and weirder than I thought.
[0:55:43 - 0:55:47] ▶
There's more like people from the program watching your channel.
[0:55:47 - 0:55:51] ▶
I can tell you that for sure.
[0:55:53 - 0:55:55] ▶
They're like, ah, this is Jesse guy.
[0:55:55 - 0:55:57] ▶
He keeps making speculations.
[0:55:57 - 0:55:58] ▶
He's coming closer and closer.
[0:55:58 - 0:55:59] ▶
What's the thing is if you have somebody who has a great intelligence on this,
[0:56:00 - 0:56:05] ▶
you should probably bring them in and not, you know,
[0:56:05 - 0:56:07] ▶
leave them out there speculating, right?
[0:56:07 - 0:56:10] ▶
If you're on the program, no, no, no, no.
[0:56:10 - 0:56:12] ▶
Mine's strictly the nightmare type.
[0:56:14 - 0:56:16] ▶
Reports of flying saucers are nothing new.
[0:56:17 - 0:56:20] ▶
From the beginning of recorded time,
[0:56:20 - 0:56:22] ▶
men have been seen unexplainable things in the sky.
[0:56:22 - 0:56:25] ▶
Someone of you told me the other day about this saucer, the flying saucer.
[0:56:26 - 0:56:30] ▶
Someone said that word before.
[0:56:30 - 0:56:31] ▶
It became in movies or something.
[0:56:32 - 0:56:33] ▶
We had the public hearing with a yes family that was brought up.
[0:56:34 - 0:56:37] ▶
Anyone want to know?
[0:56:37 - 0:56:38] ▶
Yeah, Kenneth Arnold in 1947, two months before Roswell,
[0:56:38 - 0:56:42] ▶
was looking for a downed cargo plane in Mount Renewer.
[0:56:42 - 0:56:45] ▶
He saw this kind of saucer skipping or something like that.
[0:56:45 - 0:56:48] ▶
Saucer skipping, it was they were in a v flying v formation.
[0:56:48 - 0:56:51] ▶
But yeah, I think the point of that was in culture,
[0:56:51 - 0:56:55] ▶
the word flying saucer was not derived from fiction.
[0:56:55 - 0:57:00] ▶
It's not the way around.
[0:57:00 - 0:57:01] ▶
It was like people's, like our depiction of aliens and flying saucers were actually
[0:57:01 - 0:57:07] ▶
were derived from people's real life stories, not the other way around.
[0:57:07 - 0:57:11] ▶
And that's always a misconception about.
[0:57:11 - 0:57:13] ▶
Yes, but this is an important conversation.
[0:57:13 - 0:57:15] ▶
I don't know if you have an opinion on this,
[0:57:15 - 0:57:17] ▶
but books like American Cosmic by Day and a Pasalca and Passport to Magonia by Jacques Ballet,
[0:57:17 - 0:57:23] ▶
do talk about how the noble mythology of the time,
[0:57:24 - 0:57:26] ▶
whether it's the religion or media, do you play somewhat of a role in sort of shading
[0:57:26 - 0:57:31] ▶
how you recollect and experience?
[0:57:32 - 0:57:34] ▶
So the classic example is Betty and Barney Hill in 1961.
[0:57:34 - 0:57:37] ▶
Outer limits was a CBS show that had played 11 days before that abduction experience.
[0:57:37 - 0:57:43] ▶
And it showed aliens with eyes that wrapped around the rims of their head.
[0:57:44 - 0:57:49] ▶
And that's exactly what they sort of described.
[0:57:49 - 0:57:51] ▶
Yeah, in a little bit overlaid. It's almost like we discussed before where you had like,
[0:57:51 - 0:57:55] ▶
you know, witches sitting on the chest of people feeling paralyzed and medieval times.
[0:57:55 - 0:58:00] ▶
You know, our overlay is this classic alien kind of motif,
[0:58:01 - 0:58:04] ▶
but like you look at what they said before.
[0:58:04 - 0:58:07] ▶
It's the same phenomenon.
[0:58:07 - 0:58:08] ▶
Basically, when people are analytical overlays different,
[0:58:08 - 0:58:11] ▶
so they describe it in different places.
[0:58:11 - 0:58:13] ▶
Leprechauns, fairies, elves, angels, demons.
[0:58:14 - 0:58:17] ▶
We just superimpose our own reality onto the thing.
[0:58:17 - 0:58:19] ▶
Yeah, it's almost like you have like a meme library in your head.
[0:58:19 - 0:58:23] ▶
And then you have this higher platonic thing that's happening.
[0:58:23 - 0:58:26] ▶
And you attach the closest meme that you can to it.
[0:58:26 - 0:58:30] ▶
So people have been seeing the same stuff.
[0:58:31 - 0:58:33] ▶
Like so the tic tac of today was the flying butane tank of the 1950s.
[0:58:33 - 0:58:39] ▶
And you can find declassified Air Force OSI reports that are publicly searchable right now.
[0:58:39 - 0:58:45] ▶
To talk about these like flying white butane tanks.
[0:58:45 - 0:58:48] ▶
And you know, the food fighter phenomenon in World War Two.
[0:58:49 - 0:58:52] ▶
And then if you were to go way back, you know, you see stuff that's basically described the same
[0:58:52 - 0:58:57] ▶
and antiquity as well.
[0:58:57 - 0:58:59] ▶
So whether it be extraterrestrial, some other kind of origin, you know, crypto terrestrial
[0:58:59 - 0:59:05] ▶
or some of the other stuff that people postulate.
[0:59:05 - 0:59:07] ▶
We deserve to understand, you know,
[0:59:07 - 0:59:10] ▶
truths of the universe.
[0:59:10 - 0:59:11] ▶
And if we have the answer one of life's questions, right?
[0:59:11 - 0:59:15] ▶
You know, what happens when we die and are we alone?
[0:59:15 - 0:59:18] ▶
If we can answer one of those.
[0:59:18 - 0:59:19] ▶
But it's kept in secret because they believe the public can't handle it.
[0:59:21 - 0:59:25] ▶
Or it hinders this like, you know, Cold War arms race that I talked about in my first public
[0:59:25 - 0:59:31] ▶
That seems pretty messed up to me.
[0:59:32 - 0:59:34] ▶
What do you think about elite interest in the topic?
[0:59:40 - 0:59:43] ▶
So the Rockefeller's funded Stephen Greer in the 90s.
[0:59:43 - 0:59:47] ▶
And they funded the Princeton Parapsychology Lab.
[0:59:49 - 0:59:52] ▶
Then you have Chris Melon who's a melon.
[0:59:52 - 0:59:53] ▶
Obviously sort of interested in the subject.
[0:59:53 - 0:59:55] ▶
I think there are letters between Lawrence Rockefeller and Hillary Clinton in the 90s
[0:59:55 - 0:59:59] ▶
where he's sort of pushing for disclosure.
[0:59:59 - 1:00:00] ▶
Because I think I think was David Rockefeller also involved in that.
[1:00:00 - 1:00:04] ▶
And it was like a camp David meetup.
[1:00:04 - 1:00:06] ▶
And she's holding the book here.
[1:00:06 - 1:00:09] ▶
And she's holding the book here.
[1:00:09 - 1:00:09] ▶
By Paul Davies are we alone and a photo of that.
[1:00:10 - 1:00:12] ▶
Certainly, if you use the Rockefellers as the most prominent example,
[1:00:14 - 1:00:18] ▶
there's certainly, um,
[1:00:18 - 1:00:19] ▶
called old money elite interest.
[1:00:20 - 1:00:21] ▶
And maybe it's because of their interest in frontier science.
[1:00:22 - 1:00:27] ▶
I've never talked to the Rockefellers.
[1:00:28 - 1:00:30] ▶
I have no idea what spurred that interest on.
[1:00:30 - 1:00:33] ▶
But they were certainly pushing for transparency on the issue.
[1:00:33 - 1:00:36] ▶
And that's one of the most influential families in America, right?
[1:00:36 - 1:00:39] ▶
It is important in any scientific process to try to maintain the null hypothesis
[1:00:39 - 1:00:44] ▶
for as long as possible.
[1:00:44 - 1:00:45] ▶
Kuhn, who wrote the, you know,
[1:00:45 - 1:00:47] ▶
a structure of scientific revolutions,
[1:00:47 - 1:00:49] ▶
you know, talks about this.
[1:00:49 - 1:00:51] ▶
And he was friends with John Mack,
[1:00:51 - 1:00:53] ▶
who was the head of the Harvard Psychiatry Department,
[1:00:53 - 1:00:56] ▶
who tried to maintain a null hypothesis and say,
[1:00:56 - 1:00:59] ▶
you know, I don't think this is real,
[1:00:59 - 1:01:00] ▶
because he started to, he was actually a private clinician.
[1:01:00 - 1:01:03] ▶
He started to see people who would bring up these alien encounters.
[1:01:03 - 1:01:06] ▶
And I think the thing that's really important for people
[1:01:07 - 1:01:09] ▶
is just the amount of credentialed people
[1:01:09 - 1:01:12] ▶
that once they start to have an open mind,
[1:01:12 - 1:01:15] ▶
and actually genuinely inquire.
[1:01:15 - 1:01:17] ▶
And usually these people start to take it seriously.
[1:01:17 - 1:01:20] ▶
Like I have a good friend, Eric Weinstein,
[1:01:20 - 1:01:22] ▶
is pretty well respected, you know, public intellectual.
[1:01:23 - 1:01:26] ▶
You know, I used to just wax poetic, you know,
[1:01:26 - 1:01:28] ▶
and he looked like, this is real.
[1:01:28 - 1:01:30] ▶
I promise you, this is real.
[1:01:30 - 1:01:31] ▶
And he used to think, he's, I think his quote is like,
[1:01:31 - 1:01:34] ▶
this is the one area where you had brain damage.
[1:01:34 - 1:01:36] ▶
You would not come off of this point.
[1:01:36 - 1:01:38] ▶
And I was convinced that you were brain damaged on this one issue.
[1:01:38 - 1:01:43] ▶
And now, you know, I look, I think, you know, he oscillates,
[1:01:44 - 1:01:48] ▶
but he's pretty deep into the history,
[1:01:48 - 1:01:51] ▶
to the point where he's, he's bought in that this is at least something
[1:01:51 - 1:01:54] ▶
worthy of investigation.
[1:01:54 - 1:01:56] ▶
Yeah, I mean, there's certainly some scholarship there,
[1:01:56 - 1:01:58] ▶
whether it be Jacques Vallet, or, you know,
[1:01:58 - 1:02:01] ▶
Dynapasalco recently.
[1:02:01 - 1:02:02] ▶
Jacques Vallet built the earliest version of the internet,
[1:02:02 - 1:02:04] ▶
you know, ARPANET, or he helped it, you know, Doug Engelbart,
[1:02:04 - 1:02:07] ▶
and is a serious astronomer.
[1:02:07 - 1:02:09] ▶
As people have serious badminton.
[1:02:09 - 1:02:10] ▶
Yeah, I mean, I was a really hardcore intel guy,
[1:02:10 - 1:02:13] ▶
working on some of the hardest, most deep black stuff.
[1:02:13 - 1:02:16] ▶
And I didn't really think much about UFOs,
[1:02:17 - 1:02:19] ▶
but when I started looking into it, you know,
[1:02:19 - 1:02:21] ▶
I have like people in tears, like, you know,
[1:02:21 - 1:02:24] ▶
and naval officers pilots, etc.
[1:02:24 - 1:02:26] ▶
wanting to tell me what they literally saw,
[1:02:26 - 1:02:29] ▶
you know, and, you know, either a lot of people
[1:02:29 - 1:02:32] ▶
were having psychological breaks.
[1:02:32 - 1:02:34] ▶
There's a lot of weird weather phenomena
[1:02:34 - 1:02:36] ▶
that manifest themselves in physical, tangible,
[1:02:36 - 1:02:40] ▶
like metallic-looking crafts that are close.
[1:02:40 - 1:02:42] ▶
That seems crazy to me.
[1:02:43 - 1:02:45] ▶
And I'm like, well, these people deeply believe what they saw.
[1:02:45 - 1:02:50] ▶
And I have to take them seriously,
[1:02:51 - 1:02:53] ▶
so we need to figure out what this phenomenon is.
[1:02:53 - 1:02:55] ▶
Carl Jung wrote a book about flying,
[1:02:55 - 1:02:58] ▶
it's the book is called Flying Saucers.
[1:02:58 - 1:03:00] ▶
And he talks about flying saucers as the kind of mandala,
[1:03:00 - 1:03:04] ▶
the Sanskrit symbol of psychic completeness.
[1:03:04 - 1:03:06] ▶
And it's this proto-psychological desire for us to like,
[1:03:07 - 1:03:10] ▶
have this kind of revelation of like knowing everything all at once.
[1:03:11 - 1:03:15] ▶
And what was crazy about is he wrote the book,
[1:03:15 - 1:03:17] ▶
and he was like, this is just kind of a symbolic psychological archetype.
[1:03:17 - 1:03:21] ▶
And then afterwards, he became convinced that the phenomenon was actually real.
[1:03:21 - 1:03:25] ▶
There are things flying around up there that we haven't fully identified yet.
[1:03:25 - 1:03:29] ▶
Roswell is a very interesting place with a lot of people
[1:03:29 - 1:03:32] ▶
that would like to know what's going on.
[1:03:32 - 1:03:33] ▶
There's footage and records of
[1:03:33 - 1:03:35] ▶
objects in the skies that we don't know exactly what they are.
[1:03:36 - 1:03:40] ▶
We saw a bright light appear in the distant western skies.
[1:03:40 - 1:03:46] ▶
Okay, at this point in the video, you might be thinking,
[1:03:47 - 1:03:50] ▶
there's actually a decent amount of evidence for UFOs.
[1:03:50 - 1:03:53] ▶
So why are people so reflexively and often smugly dismissive of the topic?
[1:03:53 - 1:03:59] ▶
No to predictions, no to aliens.
[1:03:59 - 1:04:01] ▶
Well, on the one hand, it's a fair reaction.
[1:04:01 - 1:04:03] ▶
There are a multitude of profit and attention-seeking charlatans in the space.
[1:04:03 - 1:04:07] ▶
People who have absolutely no interest in pursuing truth,
[1:04:07 - 1:04:10] ▶
who embellish stories and sell snake oil for a living.
[1:04:10 - 1:04:13] ▶
Then of course, you have your counterintelligence crew
[1:04:13 - 1:04:16] ▶
throwing constant smoke bombs and trying to confuse you and throw you off the trail.
[1:04:16 - 1:04:20] ▶
But maybe the most important point when discussing the insane stigma around UFOs
[1:04:20 - 1:04:25] ▶
is that some of the biggest, most prominent skeptics over the last 50 years,
[1:04:25 - 1:04:30] ▶
the people who've done more damage to open research on the topic than anyone else,
[1:04:30 - 1:04:36] ▶
were you guessed it from the atomic programs.
[1:04:36 - 1:04:39] ▶
The same atomic programs, Davis saying, are responsible for initially studying UFOs
[1:04:39 - 1:04:45] ▶
and then establishing their secrecy.
[1:04:45 - 1:04:47] ▶
I find it really interesting that you have some of the most prominent debunkers,
[1:04:47 - 1:04:51] ▶
guys like Menzel, guys like Condon, H.P. Robertson, who were kind of big shots,
[1:04:51 - 1:04:57] ▶
who also worked on the Manhattan Project.
[1:04:57 - 1:04:59] ▶
Condon was involved.
[1:04:59 - 1:05:01] ▶
Oh, I didn't realize that.
[1:05:01 - 1:05:02] ▶
I'm just interested in you.
[1:05:03 - 1:05:03] ▶
He worked with Man of our Bush a lot.
[1:05:03 - 1:05:05] ▶
Edward Euler Condon was a mid-century quantum physicist,
[1:05:10 - 1:05:14] ▶
and no single person is more responsible for the marginalization of UFOs
[1:05:14 - 1:05:19] ▶
than this man and his famous Condon committee.
[1:05:19 - 1:05:22] ▶
This 1966 investigation into UFOs was paid for but supposed to be uninfluenced by the Air Force.
[1:05:22 - 1:05:29] ▶
But we now know that Condon was actually coordinating closely with Air Force officials
[1:05:29 - 1:05:34] ▶
like Colonel Robert Hippler, who had expressed clear written desire that all previous UFO research
[1:05:34 - 1:05:40] ▶
be shown as a waste of money.
[1:05:40 - 1:05:42] ▶
The Condon committee's report dealt a death blow to UFO research in the second half of the 20th century.
[1:05:42 - 1:05:47] ▶
The backstory here is that Condon was very deep in the world of atomic secrets.
[1:05:49 - 1:05:53] ▶
Not only did he study with Robert Oppenheimer under Max Born and Germany together in the 20s,
[1:05:53 - 1:05:59] ▶
he's sometimes credited for helping Oppenheimer pick Los Alamos as the site for the Manhattan
[1:05:59 - 1:06:04] ▶
project. Condon knew the area well having grown up around the corner in Alamagordo.
[1:06:04 - 1:06:09] ▶
He also recruited a lot of the project's early staff and wrote the Los Alamos primer.
[1:06:09 - 1:06:14] ▶
A document all employees had to read before arrival.
[1:06:14 - 1:06:17] ▶
Then, in 1946, Condon helped draft the McMahon Atomic Energy Act,
[1:06:17 - 1:06:22] ▶
which again, Dave is literally saying establishes the framework for UFO secrecy.
[1:06:22 - 1:06:27] ▶
The McMahon Act of 46, which was the predecessor to the Atomic Energy Act in 1954.
[1:06:27 - 1:06:32] ▶
The guys that were involved in Manhattan were overlaying the same ecosystem of secrecy in some of
[1:06:32 - 1:06:37] ▶
the same ways to protect stuff that they were protecting on nuclear secrets.
[1:06:37 - 1:06:42] ▶
So, Condon was probably clued into high-level UFO secrets from the start,
[1:06:42 - 1:06:46] ▶
and how many people were deterred from studying UFOs because this one high prestige
[1:06:46 - 1:06:51] ▶
quantum physicist told them it was a waste of time.
[1:06:51 - 1:06:54] ▶
So, was Condon just an insider who knew the truth behind UFOs,
[1:06:54 - 1:06:58] ▶
and was he used by the original atomic UFO programs and by the Air Force to downplay it?
[1:06:58 - 1:07:03] ▶
Bob Lazar said he worked at a secret facility near Grun Lake, where alien technology was being
[1:07:08 - 1:07:14] ▶
reverse-engineered. Do you think Bob Lazar is full of shit?
[1:07:14 - 1:07:18] ▶
Bob Lazar is by far the most famous case of somebody who publicly claims to
[1:07:18 - 1:07:23] ▶
have secretly worked on reverse-engineering UFOs. He outed himself in 1989,
[1:07:23 - 1:07:29] ▶
and since then has remained remarkably consistent in his story, even while detractors cite that he
[1:07:29 - 1:07:34] ▶
possibly faked his educational credentials at MIT. He ended up actually recently going on
[1:07:34 - 1:07:39] ▶
Joe Rogan, and it's still like this bizarre split where like so many people are like he was
[1:07:39 - 1:07:44] ▶
right, he was right, and people are now using your testimony to say he's totally vindicated,
[1:07:44 - 1:07:49] ▶
and then the verdict's still out because I a lot of you have fallegists or UFO people that I
[1:07:50 - 1:07:55] ▶
really respect are just pretty skeptical. So I don't know if you have a take.
[1:07:55 - 1:07:59] ▶
Yeah, I mean I'm certainly different than him. I came at it from a different angle.
[1:07:59 - 1:08:03] ▶
I have no information on Bob Lazar. It wasn't in the scope of my looking into it,
[1:08:03 - 1:08:09] ▶
kind of activities. If he actually ever experienced what he experienced, like literally I have no idea.
[1:08:09 - 1:08:15] ▶
Honestly, I go back and forth on whether Bob Lazar is telling the truth all the time.
[1:08:16 - 1:08:22] ▶
On the one hand, the guy sells illicit chemicals on a sketchy website, invested in a brothel,
[1:08:22 - 1:08:28] ▶
and seems like a petty con man in criminal. But on the other hand, he definitely has some
[1:08:28 - 1:08:32] ▶
engineering prowess. He strapped a jet engine to the back of his Honda. He may have actually met
[1:08:32 - 1:08:37] ▶
with Edward Teller, and he probably did do some work at Los Alamos. Finally, his story just seems
[1:08:37 - 1:08:43] ▶
so consistent. He really doesn't seem like a guy who thinks he's lying. Look, there's a lot of
[1:08:43 - 1:08:48] ▶
weird stuff about the Bob Lazar story. His story's been absolutely consistent since the late 1980s.
[1:08:48 - 1:08:53] ▶
It's a classic intelligence tactic to give people 95% correct information and 5% false information.
[1:08:53 - 1:09:00] ▶
You can track the flow of information by the uniquely false details in it, and you can easily
[1:09:00 - 1:09:05] ▶
discredit the leak. Bob Lazar would hang around some interesting characters, guys like John Lear,
[1:09:05 - 1:09:11] ▶
who flew cargo planes for the CIA in the 70s. Lear definitely seemed to spread disinformation
[1:09:11 - 1:09:16] ▶
in other cases. He was also the son of Bill Lear, inventor of the Learjet, who may have been
[1:09:16 - 1:09:21] ▶
involved in the original UFO program. My question is, did John Lear manipulate Lazar into spreading
[1:09:21 - 1:09:28] ▶
a bunch of pure disinformation? And so Lazar's claim that he worked on UFOs was all a complete lie.
[1:09:28 - 1:09:34] ▶
Or was Lazar just a disclosure test for Lear and others around him? Let's see how the public reacts
[1:09:34 - 1:09:40] ▶
to this guy. He's easy to discredit, but mostly telling the truth. Personally, I'm not sure what
[1:09:40 - 1:09:45] ▶
to think and would love to meet Lazar myself and ask him what he meant when he told Jacques
[1:09:45 - 1:09:50] ▶
Belay about the liquid he was made to drink and the memory lapses it caused. And about his relationship
[1:09:50 - 1:09:56] ▶
with John Lear. This is probably a small contingency out there that says,
[1:09:56 - 1:10:02] ▶
the US needs to maintain primacy. You have this exotic tech that we've found,
[1:10:02 - 1:10:07] ▶
in the case of whatever crashes that have occurred, we don't know exactly what to do with it.
[1:10:07 - 1:10:12] ▶
Maybe we made more progress early on than we have now. We need to refresh the talent pool
[1:10:12 - 1:10:18] ▶
and maybe out ourselves as a program and front-run immunity through legislature to do that.
[1:10:18 - 1:10:24] ▶
What do you say to those people? That's something I tried to expel some news nation. I can't
[1:10:24 - 1:10:28] ▶
remember how they edited it or whatever, but it actually hurts national supremacy to keep it
[1:10:28 - 1:10:35] ▶
obtusely secret. You can't even bring the right people on it. Say the best theoretician in
[1:10:35 - 1:10:43] ▶
quantum chromodynamics just happens to smoke marijuana so we can't get a clearance and you can't
[1:10:43 - 1:10:50] ▶
get on the program. So it actually hurts national security by not opening it up at least in an
[1:10:50 - 1:10:58] ▶
appropriate way that we're not compromising anything that somebody could use elicently to hurt people,
[1:10:58 - 1:11:04] ▶
but at least, and that's why I use the nuclear physics exam. The program should want to out itself.
[1:11:04 - 1:11:09] ▶
Yeah, it's like, yeah, protect what could be weaponized, but generally allowed to be studied openly,
[1:11:09 - 1:11:15] ▶
but there's absolutely no coach and plan that I'm aware of to do so.
[1:11:16 - 1:11:20] ▶
Congressman, do you think that these reverse engineering programs have made any progress?
[1:11:21 - 1:11:26] ▶
Or do you think? Yeah, I do. I don't think they're going to scrape. Because they did, we wouldn't.
[1:11:26 - 1:11:30] ▶
We would own the skies if they had it. Isn't it in their best interest to just get a
[1:11:31 - 1:11:35] ▶
immunity for themselves and try to refresh the talent pool if these people are, you know,
[1:11:35 - 1:11:39] ▶
it's they're all old and it's completely compartmentalized and they haven't made, you know, in the Wilson
[1:11:39 - 1:11:44] ▶
belt. They're completely arrogant. They're arrogant. They're above the laws and they're above the
[1:11:44 - 1:11:49] ▶
quarantine. Why aren't they releasing the Kennedy files? No, there's a lot of 60 years, but every
[1:11:49 - 1:11:53] ▶
president. You think there's a connection between that and this? I heard that. I would hate to speculate.
[1:11:53 - 1:11:58] ▶
I'm more just just I want to start this just be me the stop. God, thank you.
[1:11:59 - 1:12:04] ▶
We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence whether sought or unsought
[1:12:06 - 1:12:11] ▶
by the military industrial complex. I have no idea if JFK's death had anything to do with UFOs,
[1:12:12 - 1:12:19] ▶
but there is a letter that was supposedly declassified due to a freedom of information
[1:12:19 - 1:12:23] ▶
act request in 2006. It was from JFK to the director of the CIA at the time John McCone.
[1:12:23 - 1:12:30] ▶
It's date November 12th 1963, just 10 days before the president's assassination.
[1:12:30 - 1:12:36] ▶
In the letter JFK is asking for the full data on unknowns or UFOs so we can coordinate more
[1:12:36 - 1:12:43] ▶
tightly with Russians in space and they don't mistake these UFOs as acts of American aggression
[1:12:43 - 1:12:49] ▶
or reconnaissance. I've called the guy who used the Freedom of Information Act to retrieve this
[1:12:49 - 1:12:54] ▶
document like five times now and he's not playing ball so I have no idea if this document is real
[1:12:54 - 1:12:59] ▶
and an anonymous archivist that handles a lot of JFK's letters say that there are some anomalies in
[1:12:59 - 1:13:05] ▶
the letter that make him skeptical. So who knows? But I will say this is a very weird non-sequiter from
[1:13:05 - 1:13:11] ▶
former CIA director Mike Pompeo when asked why the nearly 5,000 JFK files still won't be released
[1:13:11 - 1:13:17] ▶
to this day. Why'd you fight to keep the JFK files secret? These don't hold the dark secrets that
[1:13:17 - 1:13:23] ▶
everybody wants to just hold up as the bogeyman. I saw the UFO files too. We've got bigger problems.
[1:13:23 - 1:13:28] ▶
What do you say to the people who say this is a siaop and they just want black budget
[1:13:31 - 1:13:36] ▶
funding so the information might be right but they just want to you know be able to have increased
[1:13:36 - 1:13:40] ▶
surveillance in the skies and in space or whatever. Yeah that comes up I think with some people that
[1:13:40 - 1:13:45] ▶
have like an issue with it where you have to remember like national security threat is the way
[1:13:45 - 1:13:49] ▶
to get Congress alerted and engaged that is like the operative word that Congress responds to.
[1:13:49 - 1:13:56] ▶
The narrative that this could be a threat because look to be honest with you I think this stuff
[1:13:57 - 1:14:01] ▶
has been going on for thousands of years and so it does frustrate me a little bit when it's like
[1:14:01 - 1:14:06] ▶
you know we need to be able to shoot these things down it's like I don't think they're really it
[1:14:07 - 1:14:12] ▶
you know immediate existential threat as my as my yeah the smartest idea to try to fire back
[1:14:12 - 1:14:19] ▶
when they're not firing at you they'll take you out real quick if they can fly faster than light
[1:14:19 - 1:14:23] ▶
and do all these stuff they're doing so yeah probably not a good idea right we probably shouldn't
[1:14:23 - 1:14:28] ▶
attack the exact right. Yeah exactly don't act as who keepers I think that's probably a good idea
[1:14:28 - 1:14:34] ▶
stick to the facts write it down and don't speculate what you think it is because of all
[1:14:34 - 1:14:39] ▶
squier decision. The thing that frustrated me about the hearing was look I think Ryan Graves is
[1:14:39 - 1:14:45] ▶
awesome and I think as his commander David Fraver I think they're showing a lot of courage
[1:14:45 - 1:14:49] ▶
but it felt like they're simple takeaways we need more sensors and we need a better collection
[1:14:49 - 1:14:54] ▶
process and a more standard taxonomy all of which are very important but it's this kind of lazy
[1:14:54 - 1:14:59] ▶
data story that I think comes from Silicon Valley where it's like if we just get a bigger database
[1:14:59 - 1:15:05] ▶
of the UFOs a machine learning classifier will somehow spit out the answer as to what they are.
[1:15:05 - 1:15:11] ▶
Yeah the only thing you're going to get from external observation at least from the lens I
[1:15:11 - 1:15:15] ▶
look through right you're going to get what they call activity based intelligence ABI so you'll
[1:15:15 - 1:15:18] ▶
figure out where the true hotspot is dark but it's not the end all be all. If you have you're
[1:15:18 - 1:15:24] ▶
trying to find a needle in a haystack you don't want to add to the haystack and I think we are
[1:15:24 - 1:15:29] ▶
over indexed on and pure. Yeah we're saturated with data. Over saturated with data in some ways and
[1:15:29 - 1:15:34] ▶
it could be probably better standardized so I'll give them that but we're under indexed on theory
[1:15:34 - 1:15:40] ▶
and to my mind we have one pretty strong theoretician and in in joc full a who really if you read like
[1:15:40 - 1:15:48] ▶
the invisible college which he wrote in 1975 that is the tip of the spear now in terms of theory on
[1:15:48 - 1:15:55] ▶
UFOs which is wild to me. Joc full a might be the most preeminent UFO researcher in the world.
[1:15:55 - 1:16:02] ▶
In fact he was Steven Spielberg's inspiration for the eccentric French scientist played by
[1:16:02 - 1:16:07] ▶
François Truffaut in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Yeah nobody's really replaced him at that
[1:16:07 - 1:16:13] ▶
level and especially hypotheses that are even a little more testable but what the average person
[1:16:13 - 1:16:20] ▶
might not know about Joc is that he's obsessed with time travel. In fact on the set of Close Encounters
[1:16:20 - 1:16:26] ▶
he got into an argument with Steven Spielberg. We had a long discussion about what UFOs could be
[1:16:26 - 1:16:32] ▶
and of course for him the main point of the movie was entertainment and it was appropriate for the
[1:16:32 - 1:16:39] ▶
UFOs to be extraterrestrial visitors. Joc wanted the UFOs and the aliens in the movie to be represented
[1:16:39 - 1:16:46] ▶
in a more nuanced way and actually linked with time travel not just space travel. I think that the
[1:16:46 - 1:16:52] ▶
extraterrestrial hypothesis is actually more far fetched. I think the idea that another species would
[1:16:52 - 1:16:59] ▶
evolutionarily converge to be bipedal to have the symmetric bipedal symmetry. Yeah because if we
[1:16:59 - 1:17:08] ▶
look at the aerial school event if we believe the hundred school children that saw bipedal,
[1:17:08 - 1:17:14] ▶
hominid-looking kind of NHI that seems pretty rare to have the same development where they're
[1:17:15 - 1:17:22] ▶
going to it's either extraterrestrial and we're seeing bioengineered beings that look similar to us
[1:17:23 - 1:17:31] ▶
for ease of communication and acceptance and that is like almost like an avatar for the intelligence
[1:17:31 - 1:17:38] ▶
the ghost behind the machine or whatever that they were engineered specifically to look like that
[1:17:39 - 1:17:45] ▶
and it wasn't natural. Joc's air in the UFO theory world is a guy named Mike Masters, a biological
[1:17:45 - 1:17:52] ▶
anthropologist at Montana Tech University who believes that aliens are basically just humans from
[1:17:52 - 1:17:58] ▶
the future who figured out time travel and are going back in time to visit us in the present.
[1:17:58 - 1:18:03] ▶
We see them less often because we're just one small blip on an aerogiographic map of time.
[1:18:03 - 1:18:09] ▶
I like this sort of you know beings from the future hypothesis for a few reasons so there's actually
[1:18:09 - 1:18:14] ▶
a concept in evolutionary biology called neotany where your distant offspring looks like your kids
[1:18:14 - 1:18:22] ▶
currently and if you think about a lot of these sort of close encounters of the third kind
[1:18:22 - 1:18:26] ▶
they often are described as you know the beings are sort of childlike in nature. If you think about
[1:18:27 - 1:18:32] ▶
how we're actually evolving as a species you know our bodies are becoming somewhat vestigial you know
[1:18:32 - 1:18:38] ▶
we have an abundant amount of resources that are being distributed to us we don't need them
[1:18:38 - 1:18:42] ▶
like apologies are going to change. We either weigh a little bit and then our brains are becoming
[1:18:42 - 1:18:46] ▶
actually more important decision making is becoming more important. If we have any sort of latent
[1:18:46 - 1:18:51] ▶
intuitive powers that's going to be more important and these things are supposedly a little more
[1:18:51 - 1:18:55] ▶
telepathic. Their eyes are sort of slits you're going to you know have more screen time going forward
[1:18:55 - 1:19:01] ▶
and so it does feel like that's kind of the way that we're evolving.
[1:19:01 - 1:19:05] ▶
Aliens are weirdly non-interventionist. In many of the abductions that get reported it's almost
[1:19:08 - 1:19:14] ▶
like they have a prime directive to not say or do too much. In fact in many cases Mike Master studied
[1:19:14 - 1:19:21] ▶
the abducities had to sanitize themselves shower or do chemical rinses before boarding the alien
[1:19:21 - 1:19:27] ▶
craft. This would make sense as time travel involves all sorts of issues like the grandfather
[1:19:27 - 1:19:32] ▶
paradox you can't go back in time and kill your own grandfather otherwise how would you exist in
[1:19:32 - 1:19:37] ▶
the present. Any little thing you do in the past might dramatically change timelines or
[1:19:37 - 1:19:45] ▶
trajectories in a way that breaks the present. So maybe this alien non-interventionism points
[1:19:45 - 1:19:51] ▶
further towards the time travel theory. Many abducities also report lost time. Again this might
[1:19:51 - 1:19:57] ▶
be explained by abductions occurring in another temporal dimension. Time's crazy because you know
[1:19:57 - 1:20:11] ▶
it's defined at some levels as the plonk length right. It's the time it takes like a photon to light
[1:20:12 - 1:20:18] ▶
across. And you know plonk length. And you know plonk literally after discovering the plonk length
[1:20:18 - 1:20:24] ▶
thought that that would be the best way to communicate with aliens because it's literally
[1:20:24 - 1:20:27] ▶
the shortest length. It's like yeah it's like he would joke about that. Yeah it's all relative right
[1:20:27 - 1:20:33] ▶
it's you know based on your reference frames it especially if you're near gravitational source.
[1:20:33 - 1:20:38] ▶
You know general relativity teaches us that clock see their speed up or slow down. You know based on
[1:20:38 - 1:20:45] ▶
where they're near a gravitational source or not you know one over our squared over distance you
[1:20:47 - 1:20:51] ▶
know it comes off and we've proven that having cesium clocks on airplanes in the 70s we actually
[1:20:51 - 1:20:56] ▶
showed a ton of clock differences based on force of gravity. Yeah time is really not a constant.
[1:20:56 - 1:21:03] ▶
The way we conceptualize time it's not constant at all. And yet it's the felt sense of it is
[1:21:03 - 1:21:08] ▶
constant. Maybe true ontological reality time is way tripier than we realize and maybe that
[1:21:08 - 1:21:15] ▶
speaks to this sort of alien thing especially because people seem to see crafts and aliens when
[1:21:15 - 1:21:20] ▶
they're in specific kind of heightened states of consciousness. And so maybe time doesn't work
[1:21:20 - 1:21:27] ▶
quite the way we think it is but in ordinary consciousness we sort of snap it into this kind
[1:21:27 - 1:21:33] ▶
of linear classical epistemology that we experience. Yeah that's what I was trying to expel
[1:21:33 - 1:21:38] ▶
us upon when I mentioned the holographic principle. If you want to imagine 3D objects such as yourself
[1:21:38 - 1:21:44] ▶
casting a shadow onto a 2D surface that's the holographic principle so you can be projected
[1:21:44 - 1:21:50] ▶
quasi projected from higher dimensional space to lower dimensional. It's a scientific trope
[1:21:50 - 1:21:54] ▶
that you can actually cross. Originally the holographic principle was created to explain how
[1:21:54 - 1:21:58] ▶
information is encoded on an event horizon in a black hole. But maybe that's what we're seeing
[1:21:58 - 1:22:03] ▶
is we're seeing higher dimensional stuff casting shadow into our space just like how we cast a
[1:22:03 - 1:22:09] ▶
shadow on a 2D surface which is like the sidewalk right. Well if you were on flat land you would
[1:22:09 - 1:22:14] ▶
have no idea that this like crazy 3D monster was you know out there but all you're seeing is the
[1:22:14 - 1:22:20] ▶
shadow and it's called quasi projection and maybe some of the UAPs are not even they're here
[1:22:20 - 1:22:26] ▶
but they're not actually from out there. I cannot show you a test erect because I and you are
[1:22:26 - 1:22:32] ▶
trapped in three dimensions but what I can show you is the shadow in three dimensions of a four
[1:22:32 - 1:22:39] ▶
dimensional hyper cube or a test erect. This is it. Well like if it exists outside of 4D
[1:22:39 - 1:22:45] ▶
you know time space or whatever. Say this is you know you have a 2D universe and this is a 3D
[1:22:46 - 1:22:51] ▶
object. If it intersects you're just going to see a sliver of it so you'll just see a disk.
[1:22:51 - 1:22:56] ▶
So that would make sense I think in two ways. One is that a lot of people that seem to see
[1:22:58 - 1:23:02] ▶
crafts and sometimes quote unquote go inside of them the inside is bigger than the outside. So
[1:23:02 - 1:23:08] ▶
Jacques de laille describes a woman in San Jose seeing this you know flying saucer. She walks in.
[1:23:08 - 1:23:12] ▶
She's in a movie theater all of a sudden. That was when one case in good old San Jose a woman had
[1:23:12 - 1:23:18] ▶
seen something over her house it was a big disk. Now I say well when you went inside you said
[1:23:18 - 1:23:25] ▶
you know there was this being and the being took you on a staircase. I say where did the staircase
[1:23:26 - 1:23:33] ▶
go? Well the staircase went up the side of this big round rug. It's like how would you compare it?
[1:23:33 - 1:23:40] ▶
It's well like a movie house you know like a M5 theater. I said that's bigger than your house.
[1:23:40 - 1:23:47] ▶
Why is the inside bigger than the outside? And so this is a constant sort of again if we're looking for
[1:23:48 - 1:23:54] ▶
patterns and that's like a good way to kind of theorize you know that that would make sense if it's
[1:23:54 - 1:23:59] ▶
this shadow casting sort of. And that well almost that almost sounds like a physical translation
[1:23:59 - 1:24:03] ▶
from lower to higher dimensional space. That seems to be what's going on there and I don't
[1:24:03 - 1:24:07] ▶
I don't know if we have a good framework on how to smoothly do something like that I don't even know.
[1:24:08 - 1:24:14] ▶
I think if anyone would know about aliens on earth it would probably be me. He's the top in
[1:24:20 - 1:24:24] ▶
on the alien bandwagon as of the last two days by the way. He did and then he goes somebody should
[1:24:24 - 1:24:30] ▶
win siaop of the year award or something so I don't know what it's like. What do you think man? What's
[1:24:30 - 1:24:34] ▶
what's your take? He was just riding the fur with the first suite of like I'm not going to say
[1:24:34 - 1:24:38] ▶
there are aliens but like yeah yeah I'm not sure what's going on. I think he's probably a little
[1:24:38 - 1:24:44] ▶
pissed because he's using chemical propulsion. Yeah exactly. Combustion based like propulsion.
[1:24:44 - 1:24:48] ▶
We need the power hues of our generation to get access to the good stuff.
[1:24:48 - 1:24:52] ▶
I've always found it fascinating that America's real life Iron Man it's most impressive industrialist
[1:24:54 - 1:25:00] ▶
seems to be so sure of the fact that we're in a simulation. The odds that we're in face
[1:25:00 - 1:25:04] ▶
reality is one in billions. But doesn't like entertaining any possible sightings of aliens.
[1:25:04 - 1:25:11] ▶
If we're in a simulation why aren't you doing any speculating as to who simulated us?
[1:25:11 - 1:25:16] ▶
I mean if they show up I'm like great okay now this isn't your information. The conventional
[1:25:16 - 1:25:20] ▶
story especially after the Copernican revolution is that the earth is a lucky accident that allows
[1:25:20 - 1:25:26] ▶
for life. You do have sort of weird aspects of reality like the anthropic principle. The idea
[1:25:26 - 1:25:31] ▶
of Planck's constant was slightly different. Earth Hydrogen bonded with oxygen in a different way
[1:25:31 - 1:25:36] ▶
that didn't form these perfect crystal structures ice wouldn't float above water usually solid sink
[1:25:36 - 1:25:42] ▶
below liquid and we wouldn't have a habitable earth. And so you have all these sort of things in
[1:25:42 - 1:25:48] ▶
physics that if they were slightly different we wouldn't have this sort of Goldilocks perfect
[1:25:48 - 1:25:53] ▶
habitable zone. Oh yeah I mean earth's like very finely tuned right the temperature gradient
[1:25:53 - 1:25:57] ▶
is just enough right. Is that a coincidence or the aliens set this up? I don't know. You could
[1:25:57 - 1:26:02] ▶
even think of like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle where you can't measure position in
[1:26:02 - 1:26:06] ▶
momentum at the same time as like a computational caching function. Oh interesting. Yeah
[1:26:06 - 1:26:11] ▶
I can't compete everything. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not that good. So
[1:26:11 - 1:26:15] ▶
and maybe if we are in a simulation our perceptive capabilities were artificially limited by
[1:26:21 - 1:26:26] ▶
the simulators. We only see between 400 and 700 nanometers of the electromagnetic wave spectrum.
[1:26:26 - 1:26:32] ▶
We only hear certain frequencies that's why dog whistles are inaudible to humans. If we really
[1:26:32 - 1:26:38] ▶
wanted to create safe artificial general intelligence we might initially experiment with artificial
[1:26:38 - 1:26:43] ▶
life so limited in its perception that it doesn't even know we exist so it definitely can't hurt us.
[1:26:43 - 1:26:50] ▶
Forward looking infrared caught the famous tic-tac video in 2004. What if we had infrared sensors or
[1:26:50 - 1:26:56] ▶
for that matter gravity wave detectors in our pockets? How many more sightings would we have?
[1:26:56 - 1:27:01] ▶
That explains why UFOs are disproportionately picked up by military bases. It's the robust
[1:27:01 - 1:27:07] ▶
multi-sensory detection that you find on those bases that makes all the difference.
[1:27:07 - 1:27:11] ▶
There is no understanding of alien visits that has them only visit restricted navy airspace
[1:27:13 - 1:27:21] ▶
to be picked up by pilots. It's an observer and collection bias issue where you have all the eyeballs
[1:27:21 - 1:27:28] ▶
and all the sensors in those areas. Sure that's a good point. You know if you were to do an activity
[1:27:28 - 1:27:32] ▶
based intelligence across the globe we actually have an open and honest kind of collection system.
[1:27:32 - 1:27:38] ▶
Yeah I think we'd probably see some hot spots that don't even make any sense. You know I'd like
[1:27:38 - 1:27:42] ▶
throw a shade but like no grass Tyson right? Oh yeah. He's made up his mind I read I've read his
[1:27:42 - 1:27:47] ▶
tweets and I'm like dude you have a PhD in physics where's your curiosity? I can't even believe.
[1:27:47 - 1:27:53] ▶
There's no evidence that we convince an authentic skeptic. I have credentials too and I'm happy to go
[1:27:53 - 1:27:59] ▶
toe-to-toe with you. Yeah if he wants to debate me I'd be fine.
[1:27:59 - 1:28:03] ▶
You know when I started studying physics in college and I became an Intel guy and I got
[1:28:07 - 1:28:11] ▶
briefed a lot of programs. I figured oh I would know if it's a thing and I kind of
[1:28:11 - 1:28:17] ▶
ascribe to the you know the the Riko Fermi thing where you know when it be obvious when they
[1:28:17 - 1:28:23] ▶
just be flying around and they wouldn't care and they would just land and say hello. Yeah but
[1:28:23 - 1:28:29] ▶
that's like an overly simplistic thought humanistic too. Yeah. Humanistic you're assuming that
[1:28:29 - 1:28:35] ▶
they have the same kind of intent as us. You assume they operate in the electromagnetic spectrum that
[1:28:35 - 1:28:42] ▶
we can observe normally and then also you're assuming that they would want this kind of open
[1:28:42 - 1:28:49] ▶
obvious kind of interaction and they're not doing covering concealment techniques where they're
[1:28:49 - 1:28:54] ▶
you know obvious getting their activity because maybe they're you know observing us for some
[1:28:54 - 1:28:59] ▶
purpose. For what if they're von Neumann probes right? You guys know von Neumann probes.
[1:28:59 - 1:29:04] ▶
Van Neumann replicators. Which is like self-replicating tech that's disposable in nature if you're
[1:29:04 - 1:29:12] ▶
trying to send something out simple and engineered to explore the cosmos. And there's only a question
[1:29:12 - 1:29:17] ▶
of like what was the first self-replicating organism like I think the big mystery is how does
[1:29:17 - 1:29:23] ▶
chemistry turn into biology and we have this these people that say oh it was just this primordial soup
[1:29:23 - 1:29:29] ▶
and you had all these chemicals kind of like floating around and they've done experiments like this
[1:29:29 - 1:29:33] ▶
and never been able to recreate life through those experiments and it's a really open question like
[1:29:33 - 1:29:38] ▶
how did life form and I think it's probably much more trippy and interesting than like just a
[1:29:38 - 1:29:45] ▶
chemical soup just the chemicals happened to bond in a certain way it's a happy accident.
[1:29:45 - 1:29:48] ▶
And Crick's view was that DNA could not have emerged accidentally from the primeval soup on this
[1:29:48 - 1:29:55] ▶
planet in just a hundred million years. It needed much longer to it he still brought into the primeval
[1:29:55 - 1:30:01] ▶
soup idea but not on this planet. What he came down to was that there must have been some other
[1:30:01 - 1:30:06] ▶
planet somewhere else where a primeval soup had existed and there had been enough time for DNA to
[1:30:06 - 1:30:13] ▶
emerge from the accidental bumping together of molecules that's by the way something I'm a bit
[1:30:13 - 1:30:17] ▶
skeptical of anywhere. There was actually a French kind of evolutionary theorist and
[1:30:17 - 1:30:23] ▶
philosopher named Henri Bergson he thought the sun was somehow essential to to evolution if you
[1:30:23 - 1:30:29] ▶
think about it. That makes sense. You need mutations. You need genetic mutations for evolution.
[1:30:29 - 1:30:35] ▶
It's a radiological you know it's at least putting out ultraviolet you know so.
[1:30:35 - 1:30:39] ▶
Totally. Why are we worried about a Japanese nuclear spill? What happened at Fukushima?
[1:30:39 - 1:30:44] ▶
It's your noble. You had an acceleration of evolution due to radiation.
[1:30:44 - 1:30:48] ▶
Maybe the sun is an extremely sophisticated nuclear fusion reactor that powers the Earth
[1:30:49 - 1:30:55] ▶
and the Earth's electromagnetic field was simulated to support life. Astro knots often have to take
[1:30:55 - 1:31:00] ▶
human resonance machines up with them to space to mimic the electromagnetic field of the Earth.
[1:31:00 - 1:31:06] ▶
Otherwise their bodies often malfunction. You know if you put a frog embryo in a ferridae
[1:31:06 - 1:31:12] ▶
cage it does not develop normally and then if you can change the cell gradient of like a
[1:31:12 - 1:31:21] ▶
tadpole where you've severed the arm of the tadpole to the cell gradient of the head cells and
[1:31:22 - 1:31:28] ▶
you can grow a you know a chimeric two headed tadpole and so there's something around kind of the
[1:31:28 - 1:31:34] ▶
electromagnetic field that is orthogonal and maybe even upstream of DNA in terms of morphology.
[1:31:34 - 1:31:40] ▶
Yeah because I've done experiments too with plant growth around high-powerful Wi-Fi routers
[1:31:41 - 1:31:47] ▶
and that actually oh yeah don't grow right now it's like pretty so I've got a good
[1:31:47 - 1:31:51] ▶
certainty I think about the Wi-Fi in my house I'm like oh man am I like cooking myself slowly or something?
[1:31:51 - 1:31:56] ▶
Dave ran this morning and I love rice.
[1:32:01 - 1:32:03] ▶
You want the name of the love of my label?
[1:32:11 - 1:32:12] ▶
You think the name of the label is boy.
[1:32:14 - 1:32:15] ▶
You recognize me this is stuff on H&V.
[1:32:21 - 1:32:28] ▶
Over the past days you shared with us that you were diagnosed to be on the autism spectrum.
[1:32:31 - 1:32:38] ▶
How has this served you in your life and in your career and how has it hindered you?
[1:32:38 - 1:32:44] ▶
Yeah I mean I didn't know you know that I was autistic until I was like in my early 30s so I
[1:32:44 - 1:32:51] ▶
mean it served me well in the government because I was super good at you know doing intel and like
[1:32:51 - 1:32:55] ▶
you know Dave we want you to target this facility okay you have six months figure out everything
[1:32:55 - 1:33:02] ▶
you know and of course I do and it's you know that was very good but I think especially if you're
[1:33:02 - 1:33:07] ▶
trying to maintain relationships and stuff and how to read people's emotions and how to show your
[1:33:07 - 1:33:13] ▶
own emotions because you know autism especially if you're you know deeper in the spectrum when you get
[1:33:13 - 1:33:19] ▶
ass burgers and that kind of stuff you don't know how to even present your emotions in a way to
[1:33:19 - 1:33:27] ▶
a partner or you know spouse or whatever.
[1:33:27 - 1:33:29] ▶
Unfortunately Dave can't talk about the backlash he's received from inside the government
[1:33:38 - 1:33:43] ▶
because of an ongoing investigation but a good example of a pretty despicable marginalization
[1:33:43 - 1:33:49] ▶
attempt from the outside was an article written a few weeks after the hearing by the intercept.
[1:33:49 - 1:33:54] ▶
The article describes Dave's hospitalization back in 2018 an episode of alcohol consumption
[1:33:54 - 1:34:00] ▶
and suicidal ideation that led to a 911 call but the article failed to mention any of the factors
[1:34:00 - 1:34:06] ▶
that led to this incident. Yeah definitely experience some really nuts stuff. Not only has Dave been
[1:34:06 - 1:34:11] ▶
very open with us and other media about his PTSD from combat experience and having a close friend
[1:34:11 - 1:34:18] ▶
die while on duty. I had a friend of mine who died doing the same stuff I was you know six months
[1:34:18 - 1:34:23] ▶
later going to the same locations. He's also discussed all of the suffering that's resulted from
[1:34:23 - 1:34:28] ▶
that experience and the proactive techniques he's used to heal from that trauma. So like EMDR therapy
[1:34:28 - 1:34:34] ▶
Brett HIV breath work all that stuff I was not a believer but holy at least it worked for me and
[1:34:35 - 1:34:41] ▶
I highly recommend anybody that has issues with that maybe try some of that stuff because it seems
[1:34:41 - 1:34:45] ▶
kind of non-traditional but I was very valuable. Critiquing the substance of Dave's argument
[1:34:45 - 1:34:53] ▶
saying that they're high level or second hand that's all within the public and media's right
[1:34:53 - 1:34:58] ▶
but this was a clear cheap shot a low blow and one that I suspect was probably driven by a political
[1:34:58 - 1:35:04] ▶
ulterior motive concealing the truth. People like send me memes or like TikToks and like yep
[1:35:04 - 1:35:21] ▶
Have you in your time in the Navy have you ever seen something that you couldn't explain or
[1:35:25 - 1:35:29] ▶
something that we have a cabin of mountains and our former Navy he was so interested in New York
[1:35:29 - 1:35:36] ▶
Hills and he moved to Roswell in Mexico because he wanted to be close he claimed he did see something
[1:35:36 - 1:35:43] ▶
I got another question that I always get is like why is it always an American thing like why is
[1:35:50 - 1:35:54] ▶
why is this always happening in America the phenomenon is global 100% like I mean you look
[1:35:54 - 1:35:59] ▶
aerial schools Russians have reported stuff but the Chinese have what they call the journal UFO
[1:35:59 - 1:36:05] ▶
research which is a published periodical in the people's Republic of China and you don't remember
[1:36:05 - 1:36:12] ▶
you know the CCP does not allow fringe beliefs and you know it's basically tacitly endorsed and
[1:36:13 - 1:36:21] ▶
allowed since I think the late 90s I want to say do you think the the three-body problem kind of
[1:36:21 - 1:36:27] ▶
the dark forest analogy of aliens was maybe sort of a form of soft disclosure from the Chinese government
[1:36:27 - 1:36:33] ▶
yeah I mean I don't know for sure but they've allowed this sci-fi series to be published by this
[1:36:33 - 1:36:38] ▶
Chinese author that's like pretty trippy and I don't know maybe that's a way for the Chinese
[1:36:38 - 1:36:44] ▶
government to acclimatize the populace do note in the South China morning post I want to say it was
[1:36:44 - 1:36:50] ▶
June 2021 and they had an article like oh yeah we have a UAP task wars two we're using AIML to look
[1:36:50 - 1:36:57] ▶
at UAP sightings and that's really been their own overt messaging on UAP at least to an English
[1:36:57 - 1:37:03] ▶
speaking kind of audience so oh yeah we understand it's a problem we have a task wars two
[1:37:03 - 1:37:07] ▶
isn't what's happening in Ukraine kind of an argument against the practical application of
[1:37:08 - 1:37:13] ▶
these technologies because of either side wanted it kind of definitively win and you had this
[1:37:13 - 1:37:18] ▶
kind of faster than my travel then would you have to be willing to reveal your ace in the whole
[1:37:18 - 1:37:24] ▶
tech because once you use it then you burn it and then now everybody knows got you perhaps this
[1:37:25 - 1:37:29] ▶
is a good time to talk about the frame of the public debate on UFOs which is frustratingly stupid
[1:37:29 - 1:37:35] ▶
and simplistic it's frozen between a sensationalist indiscriminate belief in everything and smug
[1:37:35 - 1:37:41] ▶
elitist dismissiveness the whole conversation is basically is this a siop or is this real
[1:37:41 - 1:37:48] ▶
the answer is it's both those two things aren't mutually exclusive in fact if the phenomena is
[1:37:48 - 1:37:54] ▶
real there are more likely to be siops surrounding it and those siops are going to be more effective
[1:37:54 - 1:38:00] ▶
if the phenomena is real and yeah if there are vehicles in the sky running circles around
[1:38:00 - 1:38:05] ▶
American state of the art fighter jets do you not think the government would try to get in front
[1:38:05 - 1:38:09] ▶
of that narrative and at times use it for its own purposes we know the Air Force tried to marginalize
[1:38:09 - 1:38:15] ▶
UFOs with blue book but later in 1979 the Air Force drove a man crazy by playing up his belief in
[1:38:15 - 1:38:22] ▶
aliens Paul Benowitz I'm sure you're are you familiar with him I've heard about it yeah
[1:38:22 - 1:38:26] ▶
he's you know saw just some strange craft activity and didn't know what it was and Richard Dodie who
[1:38:26 - 1:38:33] ▶
is an Air Force disinfo guy was kind of assigned to screw him up mentally so we know UFOs are part
[1:38:33 - 1:38:44] ▶
siop that's old news the real question is is this only a siop because if it is it cuts against
[1:38:44 - 1:38:51] ▶
everything we know about our pretty dysfunctional government it's basically the best siop of all time
[1:38:51 - 1:38:57] ▶
it runs across government agencies that don't always get along presidents on both sides of the aisle
[1:38:57 - 1:39:03] ▶
fighter pilots and radar operators who adhere to a culture of humility and of course hundreds of
[1:39:03 - 1:39:09] ▶
thousands if not millions of average civilians the null hypothesis that this is purely a siop
[1:39:09 - 1:39:16] ▶
is almost harder to defend than just admitting the existence of non-human intelligence but you
[1:39:16 - 1:39:21] ▶
shouldn't blindly trust me or Dave Grush for that matter do your own research talk about I mean
[1:39:21 - 1:39:30] ▶
you have people like Stephen Pinker who are like this is the best we've ever had it I think that's
[1:39:30 - 1:39:34] ▶
BS so maybe violence is at an all-time low but it's because we have nukes now so any war is
[1:39:34 - 1:39:39] ▶
mutually assured destruction and so if there's a world beyond the material world and that can somehow
[1:39:39 - 1:39:46] ▶
be accessed or communicated with in any possible way it might be a sort of a crazy hail Mary but
[1:39:46 - 1:39:52] ▶
you got to throw the hail Mary now yeah you can't run the ball
[1:39:52 - 1:39:56] ▶
is there something you would like to say directly to someone so yeah on the program yeah
[1:40:00 - 1:40:03] ▶
if you're on the program I understand empathetically you know the the risks what you put yourself
[1:40:03 - 1:40:11] ▶
through we're trying to create a time where we can get this out there recruit better people
[1:40:11 - 1:40:17] ▶
hopefully protect those who want to go forward if you want to go forward there is a legal process
[1:40:17 - 1:40:23] ▶
even through PPD 19 if it's an intel thing do you there's other inspector generals you do have
[1:40:23 - 1:40:29] ▶
the right to go directly to congress and then of course some of the senior leaders that have
[1:40:29 - 1:40:33] ▶
I'm not about this stuff and I understand they were in positions where they had to make decisions
[1:40:33 - 1:40:39] ▶
just like anybody else and they're not the top of the pyramid I think the time is right to cement
[1:40:39 - 1:40:44] ▶
maybe your final legacy and to help out even though I know there'll be some admittance of
[1:40:44 - 1:40:50] ▶
you know maybe decisions you've made that you wish in the past maybe you didn't make but
[1:40:52 - 1:40:56] ▶
I think it's time to move forward and I think will be stronger as a nation and as a world
[1:40:57 - 1:41:04] ▶
I think it's going to enhance national security enhance peer competition policing so people aren't
[1:41:04 - 1:41:10] ▶
doing things unethical in a moral if everything's in secret everybody can get away with things that
[1:41:10 - 1:41:16] ▶
might be illegal and ethical and moral and in hold our adversaries accountable publicly if this is
[1:41:16 - 1:41:23] ▶
a thing that we acknowledge and once again nuclear physics broadly studied nuclear weapons
[1:41:23 - 1:41:29] ▶
development that's classified so that's and that's all I have to say it just they just come on
[1:41:29 - 1:41:34] ▶
do you think in some ways UFOs are like a Rorschach test and the way I mean that is that and so
[1:41:34 - 1:41:41] ▶
you know you you could use them as an auspice to sort of clamp down and create one-world government
[1:41:41 - 1:41:47] ▶
or something and create you know extra surveillance and say no this is this big thread and you know
[1:41:47 - 1:41:52] ▶
we're not at the top of the food chain and they're apex predators and you know we've got to be
[1:41:52 - 1:41:56] ▶
careful watch your step or they could be incredibly libertarian because it's like actually you know
[1:41:56 - 1:42:02] ▶
terrestrial governments aren't as powerful maybe as we thought that they were and um you know
[1:42:02 - 1:42:09] ▶
I think it can go in either direction yeah I thought or it's just like they're just simply waiting
[1:42:09 - 1:42:12] ▶
until we like generally care yeah about that we've just like we look at it we're like huh that's
[1:42:12 - 1:42:18] ▶
interesting and then we go about our day and we don't even integrate the phenomenon into our lives
[1:42:18 - 1:42:24] ▶
in terms of people's reaction to this look I'm angry about possible white collar crime especially
[1:42:24 - 1:42:36] ▶
this you know people possibly being driven crazy or dead that's horrible yeah and then I also
[1:42:36 - 1:42:42] ▶
think on some level people are too focused on government kind of recrimination it is time for
[1:42:42 - 1:42:49] ▶
transparency transparency transparency transparency transparency and not on the fact that this is the
[1:42:49 - 1:42:54] ▶
nature of reality these things might make you a biblical literalist do you believe that the
[1:42:54 - 1:43:04] ▶
phenomenon is the next big great religion in the world yeah basically the phenomenon is probably
[1:43:04 - 1:43:09] ▶
already influenced all the other religions already so it's just maybe we're looking at the
[1:43:09 - 1:43:13] ▶
source code yeah if you're looking at the source code we're at the graphic user interface level
[1:43:13 - 1:43:17] ▶
it's like IP header and we're getting into finally getting into the information flow
[1:43:17 - 1:43:22] ▶
in her book American cosmic Diana Pousalca makes the pretty convincing case that many seemingly
[1:43:24 - 1:43:30] ▶
divine contact experiences in the past could have actually been what we now call UFO experiences
[1:43:30 - 1:43:36] ▶
just take the case of St. Francis of Assisi his close confinon brother Leo documents the experience
[1:43:36 - 1:43:42] ▶
describing sound and fury creating atmospheric sparks a spinning disc telepathic communication
[1:43:42 - 1:43:49] ▶
between Francis and the disc and then Francis is wounded by rays of light Francis interprets
[1:43:49 - 1:43:55] ▶
these hand wounds as the stigmata of Christ but Pousalca speculates that maybe this was just radiation
[1:43:55 - 1:44:01] ▶
damage from a UFO experience it was reasonably religious but nothing like crazy kind of average
[1:44:01 - 1:44:10] ▶
studied physics I became kind of agnostic I was like I don't know about this all this kind of
[1:44:11 - 1:44:15] ▶
woo woo you know stuff that the church expels is and stuff and then oddly enough I've kind of come
[1:44:15 - 1:44:22] ▶
full circle in some sense where there is this higher sentience there seems to be I think we're
[1:44:22 - 1:44:31] ▶
created beings in some manner whether it be some Pam Spurmia from Little G gods or Big G god
[1:44:31 - 1:44:37] ▶
I think about the people the journey I had and the most random people that I've known that
[1:44:37 - 1:44:43] ▶
were placed in my life like 14 years ago you know shut the door in my office at NGA or like look dude
[1:44:43 - 1:44:48] ▶
and you know they sort of tell me all this stuff that I was and they brought these like crazy
[1:44:48 - 1:44:52] ▶
intel reports I guess I was kind of the right guy that was chosen to do this thing I guess but
[1:44:52 - 1:44:57] ▶
so yeah I've come full circle and my belief system
[1:44:58 - 1:45:01] ▶
for me it's inspiring because it's like this idea that it's just you know eat drink and be
[1:45:05 - 1:45:10] ▶
married or whatever you know you just you you live you pay taxes you work a job and then you die
[1:45:10 - 1:45:15] ▶
yeah that's meaning the life and just like the Vatican observatory saying yeah we're like
[1:45:15 - 1:45:19] ▶
cool with other sentient life that shows god paints like a you know broad brush and
[1:45:19 - 1:45:23] ▶
that's pretty cool and I got the Catholic Church is very accepting on that it just shows
[1:45:23 - 1:45:28] ▶
you know god's providence and god's creative powers if there's actually other
[1:45:28 - 1:45:32] ▶
interesting sentient besides it would be it's like you know what was it in the movie contact it's
[1:45:33 - 1:45:39] ▶
a total waste of space if it's just us yeah it's like the famous line in the movie Carl Sagan
[1:45:39 - 1:45:44] ▶
was a great communicator probably one of the best you know they also met a lot with kit green
[1:45:44 - 1:45:49] ▶
towards the end of his career was t.a. I got very into UFOs yeah you were telling me that I
[1:45:49 - 1:45:53] ▶
I do that so you can count on Jesse telling these weird facts yeah I use a lot of useless knowledge
[1:45:53 - 1:46:00] ▶
no I know it's not useless but it's pretty useless until now this is like the mega interview
[1:46:00 - 1:46:11] ▶
we're covering every potential trippy slash esoteric this is my conspiratorial thing out at once
[1:46:11 - 1:46:19] ▶
this justifies me being paranoid in my room reading about weird shit yeah and being criticized by
[1:46:19 - 1:46:26] ▶
friends and colleagues for years yeah this is like this is more you educating me than me saying
[1:46:26 - 1:46:31] ▶
anything for some of you right now so it's kind of cool yeah I lost learned something when I'm
[1:46:31 - 1:46:38] ▶
talking to you and sometimes I'm like hanging up the phone call me and I'm like I don't know about
[1:46:38 - 1:46:41] ▶
I think like really go with D. I think he's losing his grip down yeah but oh my god that was
[1:46:44 - 1:46:54] ▶
like crazy humming yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah maybe there's a DARPA spy cam or something oh man
[1:46:54 - 1:46:59] ▶
that's a good time bro it's a good time I mind versus here it brings science and religion together
[1:46:59 - 1:47:07] ▶
in a way that these two things have been sort of cleaved or bifurcated since the enlightenment
[1:47:07 - 1:47:13] ▶
this could possibly reconcile those two things which is would be absolutely amazing where
[1:47:13 - 1:47:18] ▶
you could read the bible and you could say some of this stuff could actually happen in a context
[1:47:18 - 1:47:22] ▶
of aliens yeah creationism this might actually prove certain religious texts and what they have
[1:47:22 - 1:47:28] ▶
expoused with like you know little g gods and at least for me you know spiritually at least my
[1:47:28 - 1:47:35] ▶
belief system it's certainly opened my eyes to the you know the universe is not clockwork
[1:47:35 - 1:47:41] ▶
everything we see in our day-to-day life is not everything that exists and if there's truly other
[1:47:41 - 1:47:47] ▶
sentient intelligences I mean it just inspires my curiosity like I'd like to know that their
[1:47:47 - 1:47:53] ▶
belief systems are and how maybe we'll find out that that matches with ours and it actually
[1:47:53 - 1:47:57] ▶
bolsters our you know maybe we can send to the per your video in the burchers well you want
[1:47:57 - 1:48:05] ▶
to repeat it a month yeah I mean the the the the ending result was was is the universe ignoring us
[1:48:05 - 1:48:12] ▶
because we're not at their level yet we haven't reached that height of awareness in the society
[1:48:12 - 1:48:18] ▶
as a people is this an opportunity for us to examine ourselves to figure out why we have not been
[1:48:18 - 1:48:24] ▶
a part of this bigger ecosystem interesting friend visiting us we have evidence of non-human
[1:48:24 - 1:48:36] ▶
intelligence one of the most powerful witness testimonies that I've seen in all the interviews
[1:48:36 - 1:48:42] ▶
that I've like consumed over the past three years was one of the girls from the aerial school
[1:48:42 - 1:48:47] ▶
case when dr. John Mack was interviewing her and he's trying to understand how the telepathy
[1:48:47 - 1:48:52] ▶
was working and then she goes out of nowhere I think in space there's no love but down here there is
[1:48:52 - 1:48:59] ▶
well that's like the near the near death experiences like a proof of heaven by ebonyl exander
[1:48:59 - 1:49:06] ▶
medical doctor yeah he has a very interesting scientific outlook of his near death and that was
[1:49:06 - 1:49:12] ▶
like this like overarching like loving energy something when he ascended to this let's sound
[1:49:12 - 1:49:20] ▶
like another like dimensional plane if you will his he had basically a fasciitis of the brain
[1:49:20 - 1:49:25] ▶
where it was like you know you know he was probably going to be brain dead if he even survived
[1:49:25 - 1:49:30] ▶
but he miraculously came back and he was totally fine but all this knowledge and all this
[1:49:30 - 1:49:35] ▶
stuffy experience well that's a super common thing and alien abduction experiences whether it's
[1:49:35 - 1:49:40] ▶
the aerial school or commander George Hoover of the navy actually talked about this aliens often
[1:49:40 - 1:49:46] ▶
come down they say you don't know how powerful you are you don't know how how amazing and powerful
[1:49:46 - 1:49:51] ▶
you are and in a lot of mystery rituals like you know the elucinian mystery rituals and others
[1:49:51 - 1:49:58] ▶
you experience sort of noesis or it's often accompanied by kind of a near death experience or
[1:49:59 - 1:50:04] ▶
something but you experience knowledge of your primordial soul and you you get this sort of loving
[1:50:04 - 1:50:09] ▶
state and then you come back down and there is this sort of a la jesus translation function issue
[1:50:09 - 1:50:17] ▶
where you know he was known to speak in riddles and you know mysteries there's a great book actually
[1:50:17 - 1:50:21] ▶
called flatland by Sir Ed Witton that's super classic in the late 19th century where it's like if
[1:50:21 - 1:50:27] ▶
you were a 3d person speaking to a people in flatland on a 2d plane or you know Plato's cave like
[1:50:27 - 1:50:34] ▶
you see the light you come down you you can't really tell people and then you get persecuted
[1:50:34 - 1:50:39] ▶
well yeah he said he had this knowledge he understood it when he was in that plane
[1:50:39 - 1:50:44] ▶
but when he came back and was trying to verbalize it and write it down he could not find the human
[1:50:44 - 1:50:50] ▶
human words to translate it it's like almost like our our symbol rate is too slow to communicate the
[1:50:50 - 1:50:58] ▶
the information effectively
[1:50:59 - 1:51:00] ▶
we're living in a very interesting time yeah I'm excited to see where it goes and you're you're
[1:51:01 - 1:51:12] ▶
playing a massive part in it so I appreciate everything you're service just on a fundamental level
[1:51:12 - 1:51:17] ▶
you know and you're a real example of like a modern mr smith goes to washington and you're not
[1:51:17 - 1:51:23] ▶
doing it in this sort of totally reckless wrecking ball sort of way you're going through the proper
[1:51:23 - 1:51:29] ▶
processes and doing things legally but also you have agency and you're doing it strategically
[1:51:29 - 1:51:35] ▶
time after time again people just get like a neutered when they're in government and you are
[1:51:35 - 1:51:40] ▶
doing a big thing so that's yeah it's cool for young people to see
[1:51:40 - 1:51:44] ▶
thank you dude thank you for everything man yeah we talked about a lot of shit
[1:51:50 - 1:51:58] ▶
ladies and gentlemen Neil Armstrong today we have with us a group of students among
[1:51:59 - 1:52:07] ▶
america's best there are great ideas undiscovered breakthroughs available to those who can remove
[1:52:07 - 1:52:16] ▶
one of truth's protective layers
[1:52:17 - 1:52:22] ▶