2,730 segments
The information density of your channel is drinking from a fire hose of mind-blowing facts.
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The Golden Age of Army R&D has a lot of really interesting research we can parallel
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today and talk about later, but during this time the Foreign Technology Division was trying
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to use recovered technology to use human brain waves to guide ICBM missiles.
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It is not only possible, it is essential.
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And then there's also stories about the 1983 Strategic Defense Initiative instituted
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by Ronald Reagan, which was to act against soviet ICBMs.
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Yeah, this likely had a backdoor to fund UAP programs and act offensively against UAP.
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This technology is obviously not ubiquitous.
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There's different types of technology, there's different craft design, one could recently
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assume then there's different types of NHI, some man, some not man.
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That design actually was featured in the first episode of the X-Files, which was allegedly
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based on true stories from John DeSousa.
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It's the same design.
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Different parts of the brain have different activities.
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You know that, don't you?
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I love it when I get it all up.
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Maybe you should interview me.
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I'm here with Sammy UAP Gerb, who runs, I think my favorite channel on YouTube that covers
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Literally, the information density of your channel is second to none.
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It's drinking from a fire hose of mind blowing facts.
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I think any 15 second clip from any one of your videos could be get its own entire video
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on various other channels that are kind of slower and less fast paced.
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I'm just so impressed by you and I'm grateful to call you friend and I'm really excited
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to have this conversation.
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We had another conversation and it looks like that might go up on my WAP, this channel
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where we're trying to foster really cool community engagement, have conversations that
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take it to the next level when it comes to UFOs.
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This follow-up should get crazier because the UFO world has gone nuts since we last spoke.
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It's an honor to have you here, man.
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I'm happy to be back.
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We recorded last time in November since then we had the hearings.
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We had the Seoul Foundation.
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We had Jake coming forward.
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We've had so much to touch on.
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You and I talked about got this back together because a ton of new topics to touch on, old
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stuff to revisit, new information.
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It's been an exciting time.
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It's been a crazy time.
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I don't even know where to start.
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Maybe we start with the Jake Barber story.
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We're an unprecedented territory where we have somebody coming out, a UFO whistleblower
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claiming firsthand knowledge, saying that he retrieved an egg-shaped craft and then
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a video coming out of that may have been a little hyped up and anticlimactic.
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If you listen to him, a lot of what he says is just extremely internally consistent with
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people like Michael Herrera who you've done a great piece on and a lot of other accounts
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when it comes to UFOs and crash retrievals.
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It kind of indicates Stephen Greer as well.
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It's kind of hard to poke holes in actually just the core details of the story.
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What's your take on this whole Jake Barber phenomena?
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To start the video on the news nation special isn't even, that wasn't taken by Jake and
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I think that was rather rushed and overhyped just like you said, Dr. Nolan came up beforehand
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said people would be very happy with this.
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I don't think anybody was happy with that.
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The whole Jake story for me goes back to investigating Michael Herrera.
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Way back in the day, I think this was like February of 2024.
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I made a video on him and Jonathan Wagant.
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And anybody I'm familiar with Jonathan Wagant, he was a Lance Corporal in the Marines who
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claimed in 1997 while stationed in Peru under Operation Laser Strike that he encountered
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Kind of large egg-shaped feature, some ubiquitous features that we see in other retrievals.
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Where's Operation Laser Strike?
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Operation Laser Strike was an anti-narco operation in Peru.
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So there were like ground-based radar systems from US intelligence to track like drug-running
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planes and so forth.
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And so Jonathan Wagant, Lance Corporal at the time basically was sent to kind of investigate
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a crash of an unknown possibly foreign craft and he and two other Marines, one Sergeant
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Allen and another person, found a crashed craft.
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The story is super interesting because it features like mother of pearl effect on the skin
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of the craft, liquid coming from the craft.
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Explain what mother of pearl effect is.
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Kind of like oil on water.
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And that Jake and others also kind of described unique features of the shimmering of kind of
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And also Wagant spoke of what he assumed to be bodies in the craft with kind of an arm
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hanging out of the craft.
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He's only ever done two interviews, one in 2001 for Stephen Greer, one in 2023 under
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And so he is a really interesting person.
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Are you touched with him?
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And the nicest people I've ever met my entire life.
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He's a really good guy.
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Defined him beyond reproaches.
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I fully believed Jonathan Wagant's encounter.
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There's small details that kind of prove to aid in other research.
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The reason I covered him and Michael together in a video besides just the fact they were
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Marines is they both talked about a team present.
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Of course, in Michael's case, he talked about a human-made craft that he encountered.
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But yeah, let's back up.
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So Wagant's this Peru case.
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And then just for the audience, Michael Herrera is this case in Indonesia with this Marine
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And they see this sort of, I guess he calls it, Vanta Black.
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A eight-gone shape, which Jake Barber describes as well, craft hovering above the tree
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He kind of closes in on it.
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And then this like really elite paramilitary unit then basically takes his whole unit into
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sort of custody and kind of reprimands them.
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And then he thinks that this whole thing is part of some sort of psionic asset trafficking
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scheme where UFO legacy programs are actually taking people in third world countries like
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Indonesia back to the US in order to summon craft.
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I mean, the whole thing initially thought it was human trafficking.
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And we'll get into this in a few minutes.
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When he gave his testimony, when Michael Herrera gave his testimony at the 2023 Steven Greer
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National Preschool of Show, that's when Jake Barber was sitting in the audience and said,
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I know about this and contact in Michael.
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We back channeled it.
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We back channeled that.
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But in Michael and Jonathan's encounters, so Jonathan said he saw an extraterrestrial
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craft or a non-human intelligence craft.
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Michael has stated, unlike the air report, which lies about this, that he saw a human-made
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However, there are some similar elements in both aspects.
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The crash recovery team in Jonathan's story, some of them wore DOE-lettered range
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And there were other seemingly military operators in black fatigues.
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They spoke with American dialect, but featured no insignia.
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This was the same thing that Michael described.
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Michael described a little further by stating that these men back in 2009 had really advanced
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M4 rifles with beautiful range finders and bioscaners.
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Kind of like what he described to be a modern cell phone to scan their identification and
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There were some very similar elements.
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That's why I covered those two people together now.
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That's pretty wild, right?
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In 2000, what was it?
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That's pretty shortly after the iPhone was released.
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Do you have any sense of what these elite paramilitary groups, like who they're working
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on behalf of, is it UFO legacy programs, the Department of Energy?
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I know that's been speculated at times.
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I've reached, I think there are two different teams to be quite honest.
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Because Jonathan, so Jonathan described a team of guys in camouflage with weapons, the
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black fatigues, sorry, DOE-Range jackets, and also men in hazmat suits.
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So this must have been a specially designed crash retrieval team to contain biologics,
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pillage, possibly hazardous materials.
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If you analyze other cases in history, the 1974 Koyame, alleged crash, and some of the
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majestic documents, there have been occasions where toxic elements have seeped from crash
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retrievals and so forth.
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But I think this is likely a DOE nest team, nuclear emergency search teams.
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This is kind of a almost semi-private institutions.
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Back in the days, nest teams, which were elite operators sent to deal with anything that
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involved nuclear technology or nuclear secrets, this was comprised of various specialized
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operators and also received help from contractors like EG&G.
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We know EG&G from the Wilson Davis memo, from the story of Bob Lesard, Edgar Fouche,
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so forth, seeped in, and UFO lore.
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It seems like Michael, the team he was dealing with, is the same team that Jake Barber is
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And this is like a deep black former JSOC joint special operations command tier one operators,
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former Delta, the SEAL team six, intelligence support activity, 24 STS.
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And these guys are bad eggs who are okay with hurting people.
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Then this is likely strictly private teams.
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And who, so who does it roll up to, because this is, I was trying to talk to Jake about
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this and it's like, there's an ongoing FBI investigation so you can't say much.
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And then I did get him to say, well, you could probably guess, if you had two guesses
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on the aerospace contractor front, like, you know.
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Can you say anything about the companies that you worked for in the context of these
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UFO crash retrieval?
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Look, man, if you took two guesses, you'd get both of them right on the first try.
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And so my guess is, this is me talking, would be like Lockheed in Northrop, but like,
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there's this other element of like Department of Energy, like who in the government does this
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You hear stuff like the CIA's director of science and technology, you know, somebody
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like Glenn Gaffney would be involved.
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And back in the day, the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence was probably involved
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in this sort of stuff.
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But who's in charge from the government perspective now?
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Gosh, that's a great question.
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And I think it's probably a very small, small portion of people, I think.
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Like you talked about elements of DOE and intelligence, CIA.
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And I think even more so than CIA modern day, the National Security Agency, NSA, we know
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that the CIA deals with human or human intelligence.
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And we know the NSA deals with sigants or signals intelligence.
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As far as why I also say the NSA.
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So in my projects, I use as much publicly available research as humanly possible.
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I don't really like to say, well, a source told me this, a source told me this, even though
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there's quite a bit of people I talk to that will never make it on a video or never
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reveal their identity public.
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But this individual was in US Army Office of Public Affairs.
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He served in the mid 2010s and he said, like, I'm not really afraid of the CIA, but what
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I'm terrified of is the NSA.
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So I think if I had to wager the elements of the NSA pulling a lot of strings.
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Well, the sort of public facing review group, you know, the all-domain anomalies, you
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know, anomalous research organization or office, or I always screw it up.
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Organization, I have a mind.
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You know, the main sort of outfit studying UFOs from a public, you know, perspective.
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The new director was a former director of the National Security Administration, the NSA,
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And so it does beg this question, you know, yeah, how much of this is, you know, I often
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think that the overrated elements of UFOs are just just focused on like metamaterials.
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You know, that's like the tip of the iceberg.
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And then actually it's this way deeper sort of thing around like human, like signal,
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like the fact that we're like probably getting downloads.
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And so, and actually there's a book called Above Black by Danny D. Sherman.
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And he goes, he's like sort of recruited into this like nondescript, you know, NSA building.
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And I've heard some from an extremely credible source, high up in government where if I
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were to give you this person's title, it's just completely beyond reproach, saying that
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that program probably existed.
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So he's recruited to this like NSA, you know, nondescript building and basically told
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to do all sorts of weird mind matter experiments, like collapse, a sine wave.
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He's given these like binaural beats.
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And then like basically he's used as like a sort of, you know, human antenna for like
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And it's part of the thing that he calls project preserve destiny.
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And he says that he's genetically been manipulated in the womb.
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And more and more, I interviewed yesterday a psionic asset who was recruited through the
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gate program through these gifted student programs or whatever.
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And so more and more is coming out of the woodwork around like kids and gifted people
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and like clairvoyance being approached at a very young age for downloads and signals
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that they're getting in.
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And this guy named Andre Puharic, who I believe you wrote a book called the Sacred Mushroom.
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And he had this space kids back in the day where he'd recruit all these kids upstate
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New York and you know this round table institute in Maine.
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And it was the space kids were meant to basically get downloads from and Star Trek came from
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one of these downloads.
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The gene Ronberry was inspired by this woman named Phyllis Schleeman.
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Phyllis Schleeman, I don't know Phyllis something.
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And that sort of inspired all of Star Trek.
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And EG and G I think actually picked up a lot of the work there.
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And so super fascinating.
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That's similar to like Tim Taylor, right?
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He said some of the ideas for his businesses came via like unknown downloads to his head.
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Isn't that what Diana Pusolka has kind of set around him?
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Yes, he engaged in protocols to basically download all sorts of information.
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And you know he, I believe started a biotech company called Vivex Biotech and sold it for
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88 million bucks or something crazy like that.
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And he claims that a lot of that was derived from downloads that he got.
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And I spoke to him for a very brief period of time over the phone once he sort of disappeared
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And his whole thing was like, don't use your phone and tap in and like, you know, it all
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felt like on the one hand cliche, but maybe actually really fundamental important advice
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as far as being able to gain access to better stuff or whatever from.
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I don't know, the whole thing is really trippy.
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Well, it's been an interesting year so far, right?
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With all kind of the mention of psionics.
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I mean, I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I speak for myself here.
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I don't really like to use the word nuts and bolts.
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I think it's super cliche and overplayed, but kind of my focus is in legacy program research,
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crash retrieval, reverse engineering stuff like that.
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So the whole psionics territory with with Jake and stuff is still uncomfortable territory
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for me, but there's still so many lines of research and stuff I do that harken back to
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One example is Philip J. Corso.
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I recently did a project on Corso.
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Corso stated that in 1960, he was recruited to the US Army's Foreign Technology Division.
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This isn't to be confused with the Air Forces Foreign Technology Division to separate things
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under Lieutenant General Arthur Trudeau.
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Now the Foreign Technology Division, there's no records of it.
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It's similar to the Army's interplanetary phenomenon unit that probably only exists through
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institutional record.
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There's no record, but in Corso's testimony, which by the way, we know that exists.
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We know that that existed, which is crazy.
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We knew that a group named that existed between what, 47, 50 or 17?
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And that was first confirmed in 1986 to UFO Researcher William Steinman.
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In the majestic documents, there's an IPU report, interplanetary phenomenon unit report,
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and an IPU field order.
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Two documents still disputed, but.
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So those are disputed, but the Steinman thing, I believe Steinman contacted somebody in
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the federal government to gain more access, and they basically said the records had been
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And that it only existed an institutional member.
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That's right, but it existed.
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And so that is, that's just so fascinating.
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And you know, I'll get back to Corso, but maybe we'll talk about the IPU documents later,
[0:16:48 - 0:16:51] ▶
because that actually talks about like a crash retrieval that killed technicians at Sandy
[0:16:51 - 0:16:55] ▶
and National Labs because of the danger of the crash.
[0:16:55 - 0:16:58] ▶
But so Corso worked for the Foreign Technology Division.
[0:16:58 - 0:17:01] ▶
This is not in dispute.
[0:17:01 - 0:17:02] ▶
You can look through his official military records that said he was the chief of the Foreign
[0:17:02 - 0:17:05] ▶
Technology Division, not out of right, Patterson Air Force Base.
[0:17:05 - 0:17:08] ▶
But the crux of his testimony is that under Arthur Trudeau in 1958 to 1962, we saw the
[0:17:08 - 0:17:14] ▶
Golden Age of Army R&D.
[0:17:14 - 0:17:17] ▶
And this is where materials recovered from the Roswell crash and possibly other crashes,
[0:17:17 - 0:17:20] ▶
maybe Aztec, maybe Crash at Corona, Plains of Santa Guston, so forth, that the US Army
[0:17:20 - 0:17:26] ▶
would partner with the US industry to figure out how these technologies work and seed them
[0:17:26 - 0:17:32] ▶
back primarily to help the US military and secondly help the American people of necessary.
[0:17:32 - 0:17:36] ▶
We know we never saw the American people of necessary, but it wasn't just to see the
[0:17:36 - 0:17:39] ▶
technologies that was also to improve upon existing technologies.
[0:17:39 - 0:17:43] ▶
There's a lot of contention here because some of these technologies were passive night vision
[0:17:43 - 0:17:47] ▶
systems and guys like Colonel John B. Alexander who has made some lies about the majestic documents
[0:17:47 - 0:17:52] ▶
before dispute this and stuff like the transistor and integrated circuit.
[0:17:52 - 0:17:58] ▶
But I like to focus on other stuff because the Golden Age of Army R&D has a lot of really
[0:17:58 - 0:18:03] ▶
interesting research we can parallel it today and talk about later.
[0:18:03 - 0:18:05] ▶
So, of course it also states during this time that the Foreign Technology Division was
[0:18:05 - 0:18:09] ▶
trying to use recovered technology to use human brain waves to guide ICBM missiles.
[0:18:09 - 0:18:14] ▶
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That is so interesting.
[0:21:39 - 0:21:40] ▶
I didn't know he said that.
[0:21:40 - 0:21:42] ▶
So this is Philip J. Corso wrote this book called The Day After Roswell and he wrote it
[0:21:43 - 0:21:46] ▶
The Day After Roswell has a bunch of fluff added by its co-writer.
[0:21:48 - 0:21:52] ▶
And he wasn't super happy about that.
[0:21:53 - 0:21:55] ▶
He only had 24 hours to edit it.
[0:21:57 - 0:21:58] ▶
And according to his son, he put his hand to his head and said, I can't believe this.
[0:21:58 - 0:22:01] ▶
That's so interesting because I was just talking to James Fox who has an interview with Philip
[0:22:01 - 0:22:05] ▶
And we need to put this out.
[0:22:06 - 0:22:07] ▶
He said he's sitting on three hours and maybe 20 minutes.
[0:22:10 - 0:22:13] ▶
I think a little bit's public.
[0:22:13 - 0:22:15] ▶
It's public through Greer weirdly.
[0:22:16 - 0:22:17] ▶
No, so I think more can come out.
[0:22:17 - 0:22:18] ▶
And he was like, basically James Fox said, gun to my head, I get shot if I'm wrong.
[0:22:18 - 0:22:24] ▶
I think Philip J. Corso was legit.
[0:22:24 - 0:22:27] ▶
And so that's fascinating.
[0:22:27 - 0:22:28] ▶
He had a co-writer that might have kind of co-opted his process in some way because there
[0:22:28 - 0:22:33] ▶
is stuff in that book that's, I think, clearly false.
[0:22:33 - 0:22:37] ▶
Like if you look at the tech tree around integrated circuits and semiconductors, I don't think
[0:22:37 - 0:22:43] ▶
you need alien intervention to describe.
[0:22:43 - 0:22:46] ▶
There's a, I think, a Munich patent on a transistor that goes back to the 30s.
[0:22:46 - 0:22:52] ▶
But I do think we saw this stepwise leap in interesting technology around this time,
[0:22:52 - 0:22:57] ▶
especially in material science.
[0:22:57 - 0:22:59] ▶
And I do believe the basic Roswell story that, like, some sort of, this memory metal,
[0:22:59 - 0:23:04] ▶
and I believe Jesse Marcel, this Air Force flight surgeon that may have handled this memory
[0:23:04 - 0:23:11] ▶
metal material and that it probably did make its way to write airfield at the time,
[0:23:11 - 0:23:15] ▶
which, right of your field, would have been the place you would have taken it because
[0:23:15 - 0:23:18] ▶
they were basically reverse engineering adversary tech.
[0:23:18 - 0:23:21] ▶
They had like, like, six Russian migs later on.
[0:23:21 - 0:23:24] ▶
But well, in 1943, they successfully reverse engineered a German pulse jet engine.
[0:23:24 - 0:23:30] ▶
So they were already successfully reverse engineering adversary retrieved technology.
[0:23:30 - 0:23:34] ▶
So it makes total sense that you'd take something there.
[0:23:34 - 0:23:38] ▶
And then basically to complete the loop on Philip J. Corso, he says that that material is
[0:23:38 - 0:23:44] ▶
taken to Roscoe Hill, or Hillencoder, Roscoe Hillencoder is the first director of the
[0:23:44 - 0:23:47] ▶
CIA, makes the call that Corso should be in charge of doling this out to basically
[0:23:47 - 0:23:56] ▶
civil side, for civil side use cases, you know, to, you know, for commercial purposes.
[0:23:56 - 0:24:01] ▶
So like Bell Labs would be like the main place.
[0:24:01 - 0:24:03] ▶
Bell Labs, Sparry Rand, which went to Funkton, its divisions went to Northrop Lockheed
[0:24:03 - 0:24:08] ▶
Martin, Raytheon, and others.
[0:24:08 - 0:24:11] ▶
And so Philip Corso actually has a manuscript.
[0:24:11 - 0:24:14] ▶
It's called Dawn of a New Age.
[0:24:14 - 0:24:16] ▶
And so for my research on Corso, I read the two side by side and went through every single
[0:24:16 - 0:24:20] ▶
difference remarkably different.
[0:24:20 - 0:24:22] ▶
For example, in day after Roswell, there's a passage about how Corso intimidated a CIA
[0:24:22 - 0:24:27] ▶
director to off himself, which is absurd.
[0:24:27 - 0:24:30] ▶
And of course, you don't see that in the manuscript.
[0:24:30 - 0:24:33] ▶
Oh, they just, they sigh optim, man.
[0:24:33 - 0:24:36] ▶
And they, and he had 24 hours to edit it.
[0:24:36 - 0:24:38] ▶
The first chapter of the book is like a detailed description of Roswell as if somebody
[0:24:40 - 0:24:43] ▶
Of course, so never, never talks about that stuff.
[0:24:44 - 0:24:47] ▶
He doesn't know what happened at Roswell.
[0:24:47 - 0:24:49] ▶
He just takes the materials.
[0:24:49 - 0:24:52] ▶
Another example is continued mentions to the majestic documents in day after Roswell.
[0:24:54 - 0:24:59] ▶
They're only passively referenced once in Dawn of a New Age.
[0:24:59 - 0:25:03] ▶
However, in Dawn of a New Age, Corso also states interesting stuff that he found after
[0:25:03 - 0:25:09] ▶
his time in the foreign technology division.
[0:25:09 - 0:25:10] ▶
And maybe we'll get into that later because we can circle back to the, the psionic stuff
[0:25:10 - 0:25:14] ▶
with other like really old research we can dig into.
[0:25:14 - 0:25:17] ▶
But, you know, Corso would talk about stuff like a UFO working group, which there's reasons
[0:25:17 - 0:25:21] ▶
to suggest maybe the majestic 12 changed into that along the way.
[0:25:21 - 0:25:24] ▶
But I wanted to say about the psionics as well is, and just kind of the mental phenomenon.
[0:25:24 - 0:25:29] ▶
I want to route this back to three key players.
[0:25:29 - 0:25:32] ▶
Dr. Eric A. Walker, Robert Sardbacher, Dr. Robert Sardbacher, and Wilbert B. Smith.
[0:25:32 - 0:25:38] ▶
So this, this story takes place around 1950.
[0:25:39 - 0:25:44] ▶
Wilbert B. Smith was a Canadian radio engineer who had a huge interest in flying saucers
[0:25:44 - 0:25:49] ▶
after reading the flying saucer conspiracy by author Frank Scully.
[0:25:49 - 0:25:53] ▶
Dr. Robert Sardbacher was the scientific advisor to the research and development board
[0:25:53 - 0:25:58] ▶
spearheaded by Vannevar Bush.
[0:25:58 - 0:26:01] ▶
Around 1950, Wilbert Smith met with Robert Sardbacher to talk about flying saucers because the
[0:26:01 - 0:26:08] ▶
Canadian government wanted to use sort of kind of magnetic, the Earth's magnetic field
[0:26:08 - 0:26:13] ▶
And he thought after reading the flying saucer conspiracy there may be some sort of connection.
[0:26:14 - 0:26:18] ▶
And during this meeting, Robert Sardbacher said stuff like, well, in the 1950s, there
[0:26:18 - 0:26:23] ▶
were meetings about flying saucers.
[0:26:23 - 0:26:26] ▶
The US government studies them.
[0:26:26 - 0:26:28] ▶
It's spearheaded by a group of Vannevar Bush.
[0:26:28 - 0:26:30] ▶
I can't tell you what they're from or what they're made of, but we know they're not made
[0:26:30 - 0:26:33] ▶
So Wilbert Smith relayed that in a 1950 department of transportation Canada memo.
[0:26:36 - 0:26:41] ▶
That was then reduced from top secret to I think restricted access or confidential in 1960
[0:26:41 - 0:26:48] ▶
something and then completely unclassified later.
[0:26:48 - 0:26:52] ▶
But so Wilbert B. Smith took that and met with Sardbacher and these guys again to really
[0:26:52 - 0:26:58] ▶
get involved with UFOs.
[0:26:58 - 0:26:59] ▶
And Sardbacher basically said, like I can connect you to the proper American authorities
[0:26:59 - 0:27:04] ▶
to engage with more UFO research if you can a become cleared and be give something back.
[0:27:04 - 0:27:09] ▶
And so Wilbert B. Smith, he would later on go to spearhead project magnet, which was
[0:27:09 - 0:27:14] ▶
Canada's first UFO investigation group, followed up by project second story.
[0:27:14 - 0:27:19] ▶
But when he finally met again with the Americans, he learned other things such as Vannevar
[0:27:19 - 0:27:25] ▶
Bush spearhead the group.
[0:27:25 - 0:27:26] ▶
He knew that a couple more things, but he also said that the US authority study UFOs were
[0:27:26 - 0:27:31] ▶
obsessed with the mental phenomena that accompanied UFO research.
[0:27:31 - 0:27:35] ▶
So later on down the line, there was also a gentleman, Dr. Eric A. Walker.
[0:27:35 - 0:27:39] ▶
This guy is super esteemed.
[0:27:39 - 0:27:41] ▶
He was Penn State University's president, one of the smartest, smartest people of the
[0:27:41 - 0:27:46] ▶
entire 20th century.
[0:27:46 - 0:27:47] ▶
He was named in a conversation to William Steinman, UFO researcher that one of the attendees
[0:27:47 - 0:27:52] ▶
of these meetings in the 1950s about UFO crash retrievals was Dr. Eric A. Walker.
[0:27:52 - 0:27:58] ▶
Dr. Eric A. Walker would stay silent for a long time.
[0:27:58 - 0:28:01] ▶
He was first contacted in I think 1984 by William Steinman.
[0:28:01 - 0:28:05] ▶
He returned William Steinman's letter really cryptically with a type thing saying like, go,
[0:28:05 - 0:28:09] ▶
go, go, leave me alone.
[0:28:09 - 0:28:11] ▶
But eventually he would kind of meet with Steinman, another researcher named Henry Azadahel.
[0:28:11 - 0:28:17] ▶
During these meetings, he would say some interesting stuff like he was present at the 1965
[0:28:17 - 0:28:21] ▶
Kecksburg UFO crash.
[0:28:21 - 0:28:24] ▶
And he asked that he did attend these meetings.
[0:28:24 - 0:28:25] ▶
But when William Steinman asked him about, or maybe it was Henry Azadahel, asked him about
[0:28:25 - 0:28:30] ▶
majestic 12, he said he knew about majestic 12.
[0:28:30 - 0:28:33] ▶
He known about them for 40 years.
[0:28:33 - 0:28:35] ▶
And he retorted with a question saying, what do you know about ESP, extra sensory perception?
[0:28:35 - 0:28:41] ▶
Unless you know about it.
[0:28:41 - 0:28:42] ▶
I think he said the sixth sense specifically.
[0:28:42 - 0:28:43] ▶
You would never be let in.
[0:28:45 - 0:28:46] ▶
Well, it was almost not only you'd never be let in, like you can't even comprehend the
[0:28:47 - 0:28:51] ▶
And I think it was a donkey hoodie.
[0:28:52 - 0:28:54] ▶
Yeah, chased after windmills.
[0:28:54 - 0:28:55] ▶
Yeah, chased after windmills.
[0:28:55 - 0:28:56] ▶
Chasing after windmills.
[0:28:56 - 0:28:57] ▶
Which that's always stuck with me.
[0:28:57 - 0:28:58] ▶
It's like disclosure isn't this file that you can just give to somebody.
[0:28:58 - 0:29:02] ▶
It's like, I can't even tell you.
[0:29:03 - 0:29:04] ▶
Because you're like, you're literally like unable to cognize what I might be able to,
[0:29:05 - 0:29:09] ▶
That's, it's just so fascinating.
[0:29:11 - 0:29:13] ▶
And so, and then just to add corroboration to the first thing you're mentioning with
[0:29:13 - 0:29:17] ▶
the Sarbacher Wilbert Smith connection, not only did he run, you know, research and development,
[0:29:17 - 0:29:22] ▶
you know, under, under Vannevar Bush, he was, uh, had a Washington national lab.
[0:29:22 - 0:29:26] ▶
He was just like a, a, a atomic energy expert at the highest level in the US.
[0:29:26 - 0:29:31] ▶
And he was kind of scrubbed, this is Robert Sarbacher, who's kind of scrubbed from the internet
[0:29:31 - 0:29:35] ▶
And he was known for having like an IQ of, you know, 200 plus or something.
[0:29:36 - 0:29:39] ▶
Something just brilliant guy.
[0:29:40 - 0:29:41] ▶
Um, and, uh, and so he's, he's just this fascinating character who is also very close
[0:29:41 - 0:29:46] ▶
with Thomas Townsend Brown, who's the anti-gravity inventor at the time.
[0:29:46 - 0:29:49] ▶
You know that, and anybody.
[0:29:49 - 0:29:50] ▶
Well, in, in 1956, when Thomas Townsend Brown does his, um, experiment in Paris proving
[0:29:50 - 0:29:56] ▶
the byfield brown effect and that this, this works in a vacuum and I think showing some
[0:29:56 - 0:30:01] ▶
sort of interesting coupling between electromagnetism and gravity, he, uh, comes back to the US and
[0:30:01 - 0:30:06] ▶
he's picked up in a black Cadillac by Robert Sarbacher, who he's very, very close to.
[0:30:06 - 0:30:10] ▶
And so there's, there's a lot of, you know, connection there.
[0:30:10 - 0:30:13] ▶
Um, and so you had a, you had a third, so this is, so Eric Walker, Robert Sarbacher,
[0:30:13 - 0:30:18] ▶
both corroboration for this sort of ESP, yeah.
[0:30:18 - 0:30:21] ▶
And then another thing, um, I'm sure many viewers will know Leonard Stringfield, who's
[0:30:22 - 0:30:26] ▶
one of the greatest crash retrieval researchers, probably the greatest of all time.
[0:30:26 - 0:30:30] ▶
Uh, in the 70s and 80s, when nobody was doing this, he was researching crash retrieval,
[0:30:30 - 0:30:34] ▶
he was mainly focusing on witness testimony in his file.
[0:30:34 - 0:30:38] ▶
So in crash retrieval status reports, one through seven, as well as when he passed on
[0:30:38 - 0:30:42] ▶
and Michael Shrat went to his archives and Cincinnati and read through the rest of his
[0:30:42 - 0:30:46] ▶
And numerous mentions of witnesses who had observed recovered UFOs and kind of cutaway
[0:30:47 - 0:30:51] ▶
diet rams accompanying the UFOs and how in certain retrieval cases there would seem to
[0:30:51 - 0:30:55] ▶
be like a headband or a headband transceiver, uh, worn by the operators of the craft that
[0:30:55 - 0:31:01] ▶
somehow would pilot said craft.
[0:31:01 - 0:31:04] ▶
And that the same thing, of course, I've said, right?
[0:31:04 - 0:31:07] ▶
And interviews with him, he said that the operators of specifically the Roswell craft were
[0:31:07 - 0:31:11] ▶
part of the guidance system.
[0:31:11 - 0:31:13] ▶
It doesn't seem too far fetch when Jake talks about, uh, an asset, a psionic person,
[0:31:14 - 0:31:20] ▶
being able to use their mind to, to commandeer the flight controls of a craft.
[0:31:20 - 0:31:25] ▶
When we look at collecting data, one of the areas that we look to collect data is through
[0:31:25 - 0:31:29] ▶
a psionic asset, which is an individual who's trained in remote viewing, um, psychic abilities,
[0:31:29 - 0:31:37] ▶
telekinesis, that type of thing.
[0:31:37 - 0:31:40] ▶
I'm still unfamiliar with the physics of, uh, really how to wrap my head around this
[0:31:40 - 0:31:44] ▶
fully, but it's not out of the question to me.
[0:31:44 - 0:31:46] ▶
It's, it's, it's based in a lot of research spanning back to 1960s.
[0:31:46 - 0:31:51] ▶
No, I, I think it's the, it's the future of physics.
[0:31:52 - 0:31:54] ▶
And I think it's just, so like when you have an anomaly in physics, if you can't turn
[0:31:54 - 0:31:59] ▶
it into math and you can't instrumentalize it into technology, I think it goes into this
[0:31:59 - 0:32:06] ▶
category called an anomaly and you just don't know what to do with it.
[0:32:06 - 0:32:10] ▶
And then the anomaly usually or often will get vindicated in a new theory, but until that
[0:32:10 - 0:32:15] ▶
anomaly gets vindicated in a new theory, you just have to say it's a weird anomaly and
[0:32:15 - 0:32:20] ▶
we don't know what to do with it.
[0:32:20 - 0:32:22] ▶
And so, parapsychology, I think is, you know, a parapsychology being the psionic sort
[0:32:22 - 0:32:27] ▶
of mind matter thing is proven experimentally.
[0:32:27 - 0:32:30] ▶
You can't turn it into math.
[0:32:31 - 0:32:32] ▶
We're in the Stone Age in it on it.
[0:32:32 - 0:32:33] ▶
And it's hard to turn into technology.
[0:32:33 - 0:32:35] ▶
Maybe inside, you know, government circles have, you know, have turned this into technology,
[0:32:35 - 0:32:40] ▶
but we have it civil side.
[0:32:40 - 0:32:42] ▶
And so I think because of that, it's totally stigmatized.
[0:32:42 - 0:32:44] ▶
But if you look at other examples in the past, like black body radiation, you know, in the
[0:32:44 - 0:32:48] ▶
1860s or the orbit of mercury, which was not described well in Newtonian paradigm, you
[0:32:48 - 0:32:55] ▶
need an Einstein to describe it.
[0:32:55 - 0:32:57] ▶
Until you get the new theory, you just don't get vindication for the anomaly.
[0:32:57 - 0:33:01] ▶
And so that's, that's my take on it.
[0:33:01 - 0:33:03] ▶
And it's not like physics outside of that branch has been productive at all in the last
[0:33:03 - 0:33:08] ▶
Like it's actually been extremely unproductive.
[0:33:09 - 0:33:11] ▶
Well, who knows what sort of progress has been made that's been kind of kept under wraps.
[0:33:11 - 0:33:14] ▶
You know, we have SRI and SAIC with the Stargate program.
[0:33:14 - 0:33:18] ▶
And you and I have personal experience with Randy.
[0:33:18 - 0:33:21] ▶
You know, as a green beret was at the Naval Surface Warfare Center crane, went underground
[0:33:21 - 0:33:26] ▶
via contractor SAIC and was shown technology that purportedly responded to human consciousness.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:31] ▶
We get under there, door opens, we go through security type checkpoint.
[0:33:31 - 0:33:37] ▶
I remember the first thing stood out to me was that it was significantly more modern
[0:33:37 - 0:33:42] ▶
than everything up top.
[0:33:42 - 0:33:43] ▶
Now, anybody who's saying that the Navy hasn't studied this stuff is not fully knowledgeable
[0:33:44 - 0:33:50] ▶
Going back to 2011 and 2012, the Navy, the ONR specifically Office of Naval Research
[0:33:51 - 0:33:55] ▶
was publishing studies on a six cents within humans.
[0:33:55 - 0:33:58] ▶
So the Navy, SAIC, SRI, Stargate, all of these guys are pretty interested.
[0:33:58 - 0:34:04] ▶
I mean, we have US Army Inescom General Albert Stubblebine who wanted to basically cognitively
[0:34:04 - 0:34:09] ▶
The movie The Men Who Starrat Goats is made after Stubblebine.
[0:34:11 - 0:34:14] ▶
Yeah, after Stubblebine, Limby Cannon, all the, yes, the whole Stargate program, which
[0:34:14 - 0:34:20] ▶
was ran from 1972 to 1995.
[0:34:20 - 0:34:22] ▶
And systematically, you know, kind of employed these psychics buys, which would gather
[0:34:22 - 0:34:27] ▶
Intel, which was hugely consequential for the United, I just interviewed, actually, Joseph
[0:34:27 - 0:34:32] ▶
McMonigal, who figured out this, you know, novel Russian submarine, I think in 78 or 79.
[0:34:32 - 0:34:41] ▶
And that was extremely critical for, you know, US during the Cold War.
[0:34:41 - 0:34:45] ▶
And he was thanked at like the highest level.
[0:34:45 - 0:34:46] ▶
I think Robert Baker actually was like sort of very against his intel to begin with.
[0:34:46 - 0:34:52] ▶
And then he realized that it was sort of indicated after McMonigal sort of figured
[0:34:52 - 0:34:56] ▶
And then he was kind of married due to, you know, the very productive activity he engaged
[0:34:57 - 0:35:02] ▶
So I do think the office of Naval Intelligence is the oldest intelligence organization
[0:35:03 - 0:35:08] ▶
It goes back to the 18 nice way pre-national security act and CIA and NSA later like pre-all
[0:35:09 - 0:35:15] ▶
And I have for the audience, because they're probably drinking from a fire hose of facts
[0:35:17 - 0:35:21] ▶
And Andy Anderson is this amazing green beret who you introduced me to who is a, you
[0:35:23 - 0:35:31] ▶
know, really just a, I think a war hero.
[0:35:31 - 0:35:34] ▶
I think both you and I have heard offline of stories around his deployment to various
[0:35:34 - 0:35:39] ▶
countries that he wants to lay low on because it's not the green beret way, you know,
[0:35:39 - 0:35:43] ▶
he doesn't want to brag about anything.
[0:35:43 - 0:35:45] ▶
He's not the seal way.
[0:35:45 - 0:35:46] ▶
But, you know, there's a number of people in his graduating class who've died.
[0:35:46 - 0:35:50] ▶
He's gone through a lot.
[0:35:50 - 0:35:52] ▶
And yeah, he was stationed at, he was an 18 Bravo weapon sergeant, you know, an expert
[0:35:52 - 0:35:56] ▶
on various weapon systems and he was taken underground to this deep underground military
[0:35:56 - 0:36:00] ▶
base, which we know exists across the country.
[0:36:00 - 0:36:03] ▶
Yeah, that's not a question.
[0:36:04 - 0:36:06] ▶
And that's a fascinating topic to get into as well.
[0:36:06 - 0:36:08] ▶
And once you talk about Randy, we can, we can absolutely get into Dums.
[0:36:08 - 0:36:12] ▶
Well, I just want to hear you because, you know, there's some, I got a lot of flak
[0:36:12 - 0:36:17] ▶
And I've spoken to his colleagues.
[0:36:18 - 0:36:22] ▶
I've spoken to, you know, two of his green beret buddies now.
[0:36:22 - 0:36:26] ▶
I have their DD-214s.
[0:36:27 - 0:36:28] ▶
Like, you know, I know a little bit about them in their background.
[0:36:28 - 0:36:31] ▶
And like, I know that Randy is not lying.
[0:36:31 - 0:36:34] ▶
And there are people out there on the internet questioning his service, which is insane.
[0:36:34 - 0:36:38] ▶
And honestly, shameful.
[0:36:38 - 0:36:40] ▶
You know, if there's anything substantive, you have to say there or on the testimony fine.
[0:36:41 - 0:36:45] ▶
Because he also has pictures of him at Crane.
[0:36:45 - 0:36:48] ▶
At the year right when he saw the technology as well.
[0:36:49 - 0:36:52] ▶
You know, he just don't, don't, you know, that's insane.
[0:36:53 - 0:36:57] ▶
And then yeah, there are questions he has about his experience.
[0:36:57 - 0:37:01] ▶
You know, the off-world technology's division like, like he doesn't know what that was.
[0:37:01 - 0:37:05] ▶
That human text on it was that, was that, you know, non-human intelligence, you know,
[0:37:05 - 0:37:10] ▶
After that, we moved on down another hallway and got into an area that had a marking on
[0:37:11 - 0:37:17] ▶
the wall and said off-world technology.
[0:37:17 - 0:37:20] ▶
Said off-world technology.
[0:37:20 - 0:37:23] ▶
That was, that was where the weird shit started.
[0:37:24 - 0:37:29] ▶
So yeah, we go into the room and the one room, these significantly higher level of technology,
[0:37:29 - 0:37:37] ▶
like the lighting even looked, you know, everything was just, it was more, everything was, it was
[0:37:37 - 0:37:45] ▶
just a different vibe, man.
[0:37:45 - 0:37:48] ▶
I don't know how else to describe it.
[0:37:48 - 0:37:49] ▶
Like I said, the lighting was different.
[0:37:49 - 0:37:50] ▶
The walls had like, maybe I would assume some type of fairity material.
[0:37:50 - 0:37:53] ▶
Like everything was just a higher level of detail.
[0:37:53 - 0:38:00] ▶
The first object was a metallic basketball-sized sphere and it was above a podium and it was,
[0:38:00 - 0:38:10] ▶
look like it was just levitating above the podium.
[0:38:10 - 0:38:12] ▶
Levitating above the podium.
[0:38:12 - 0:38:14] ▶
What makes you think that that was non-human?
[0:38:14 - 0:38:16] ▶
Well, hey, I don't, I don't think it's a valid criticism as well to say that because there
[0:38:16 - 0:38:20] ▶
was some sort of sign that labeled off-world technology's division that that's completely
[0:38:20 - 0:38:24] ▶
A story I've seen that criticism leveraged around and how do you, like, that's a, that's
[0:38:26 - 0:38:31] ▶
quite a baseless claim to make that a division would not be named.
[0:38:31 - 0:38:36] ▶
Sure, it may seem a bit strange, but we're talking about UFO legacy programs and deep underground
[0:38:36 - 0:38:40] ▶
military bases that span the continental United States.
[0:38:40 - 0:38:43] ▶
So that's not an accurate criticism to me, but the technology's Randy saw that I want
[0:38:43 - 0:38:47] ▶
to focus specifically on the sphere that he said reacted to human consciousness.
[0:38:47 - 0:38:51] ▶
There is a mutual friend of ours that has observed that as well.
[0:38:51 - 0:38:55] ▶
And that is Jordan of Skywatchers, if we can talk about that.
[0:38:56 - 0:39:00] ▶
When he was involved in the gate program as a late teen, intelligence or military brass
[0:39:00 - 0:39:05] ▶
and suits and, you know, egg heads brought in a case opened it up and there was the same
[0:39:05 - 0:39:11] ▶
That story continues to pop up.
[0:39:12 - 0:39:15] ▶
It's either a sphere or a piece of metal and they want to see, I just interviewed somebody
[0:39:15 - 0:39:19] ▶
yesterday and I can talk about this because it's going to come out.
[0:39:19 - 0:39:22] ▶
This guy Shane Freaks, old vet symposium on Twitter and he talks about being shown a
[0:39:22 - 0:39:27] ▶
And so it's the same thing, shown a sphere and seeing how the person would react and if
[0:39:28 - 0:39:31] ▶
they have some sort of psionic connection to it.
[0:39:31 - 0:39:34] ▶
And it's kind of the same thing as the Jake Barber story where he, he locks on mentally
[0:39:34 - 0:39:39] ▶
to, in this case, the Acon craft, but there is a mental connection.
[0:39:40 - 0:39:43] ▶
And so that is, and then there's, say I see, I believe is on record studying, quote, unquote,
[0:39:43 - 0:39:48] ▶
psychotronic technology.
[0:39:48 - 0:39:49] ▶
They, they, they, they, they coined their own terms for like telekinesis and psychokinesis
[0:39:50 - 0:39:54] ▶
when they kind of bought up the research from SRI.
[0:39:54 - 0:39:56] ▶
So SRI took it and ran with it.
[0:39:56 - 0:39:58] ▶
And they were operating Stargate, the psychics bi program in Palo Alto, like at the end of
[0:39:58 - 0:40:02] ▶
So yeah, there's a, there's a lot of history there that just corroborates where if you
[0:40:03 - 0:40:09] ▶
don't know the history, you're going to hear this green beret saying I saw a sphere
[0:40:09 - 0:40:12] ▶
levitating in front of a podium and I mentally locked on to it and you're going to be like,
[0:40:12 - 0:40:16] ▶
that's fucking crazy.
[0:40:16 - 0:40:17] ▶
But you need to update your priors and like actually dive deep into the, the history
[0:40:18 - 0:40:22] ▶
of this stuff, which I mean, you're like the tip of the spear on, but I, I often feel
[0:40:22 - 0:40:26] ▶
like I'm out on an island where you have very few people to talk to who like get, who
[0:40:26 - 0:40:31] ▶
don't realize that the stuff actually isn't crazy.
[0:40:31 - 0:40:34] ▶
If you're engaging in solid Bayesian reasoning, you, maybe you have to think probabilistically
[0:40:34 - 0:40:40] ▶
and it's not, you know, 100%.
[0:40:40 - 0:40:42] ▶
This is definitely real or whatever, but like it, your base case is that it actually is
[0:40:42 - 0:40:46] ▶
real because there's, there's a lot of evidence around it.
[0:40:46 - 0:40:49] ▶
And like the other testimonies we mentioned too are incredibly interesting.
[0:40:50 - 0:40:53] ▶
The story with Jordan, he and I spoke about that long before any research with Randy
[0:40:53 - 0:40:57] ▶
was ever made public.
[0:40:57 - 0:40:58] ▶
So initially when I made contact with Randy, I went around kind of looking for any other
[0:40:58 - 0:41:02] ▶
story that may involve some sort of sphere, some sort of basketball sized metal that might
[0:41:02 - 0:41:09] ▶
interact with people.
[0:41:09 - 0:41:10] ▶
And this also like almost harkens back even to how we opened up with the story of Jonathan
[0:41:10 - 0:41:15] ▶
Wagan when he got in close proximity to the crash craft he saw, whether it was the beans
[0:41:15 - 0:41:19] ▶
or the craft itself, he felt an overwhelming sense of calmness and communication is
[0:41:19 - 0:41:24] ▶
And we hear that from Jake Barber as well with, with the eight gone.
[0:41:26 - 0:41:29] ▶
You hear it in pretty much every alien abduction account is this sort of mental telepathic connection.
[0:41:29 - 0:41:34] ▶
And I do find it interesting.
[0:41:34 - 0:41:36] ▶
Certain people are down for like breaking exotic, you know, breaking physics in the form
[0:41:36 - 0:41:42] ▶
of exotic flight principles and like metamaterials, but for whatever reason.
[0:41:42 - 0:41:45] ▶
So that like breaks our reality there, but they're not down for the mental thing.
[0:41:45 - 0:41:49] ▶
And it's like, why is that a bridge too far?
[0:41:49 - 0:41:51] ▶
If you've crossed this bridge, this bridge is crazy.
[0:41:51 - 0:41:55] ▶
So you have to open up, you know, all possibilities at that point.
[0:41:55 - 0:41:58] ▶
And again, think probabilistically.
[0:41:58 - 0:42:00] ▶
So maybe that second bridge is slightly lower probability than the first bridge.
[0:42:00 - 0:42:04] ▶
But I think people don't realize just how limited their thinking is.
[0:42:04 - 0:42:08] ▶
A lot of this stuff.
[0:42:09 - 0:42:10] ▶
Yeah, it's like what we talked about.
[0:42:10 - 0:42:11] ▶
Like my research mainly focuses on legacy programs, but I can't discount the research
[0:42:11 - 0:42:15] ▶
done at Stargate, the psionic stuff.
[0:42:15 - 0:42:17] ▶
I can't lead that out of the equation.
[0:42:17 - 0:42:19] ▶
I still need to study it always when it arises.
[0:42:19 - 0:42:21] ▶
And, you know, and sometimes those bleed over into the realms I study as well.
[0:42:23 - 0:42:28] ▶
Because, you know, we were talking about double buying who was interested in psychic spies.
[0:42:28 - 0:42:32] ▶
And then on the other hand, double buying also has really interesting research into like
[0:42:32 - 0:42:36] ▶
UFO crash retrieval and legacy reverse engineering programs.
[0:42:36 - 0:42:39] ▶
So on one hand, he's kind of engaging with the more psychic aspect of the phenomenon.
[0:42:39 - 0:42:43] ▶
On the other hand, he's dealing with the really tangible program level stuff.
[0:42:43 - 0:42:46] ▶
I mean, double buying created the US Army Inxcom intelligence and security commands, special
[0:42:46 - 0:42:53] ▶
operations unit, the intelligence support activity.
[0:42:53 - 0:42:56] ▶
And I think 2002, right around the time the CIA OGA was created, the intelligence support
[0:42:56 - 0:43:01] ▶
activity, which is a really, really like clandestine secretive combat group, kind of like the
[0:43:01 - 0:43:06] ▶
CIA soldiers almost was brought over to JSOC, the joint special operations command.
[0:43:06 - 0:43:11] ▶
And if we adhere to some excellent reporting by Chris Sharpen others, the CIA OGA and its
[0:43:11 - 0:43:16] ▶
creation in 2002 and JSOC are utilized to perform crash retrievals and so forth.
[0:43:16 - 0:43:21] ▶
So what that continues to come up, you know, is like they sort of go in, you know, and
[0:43:23 - 0:43:28] ▶
what's the connection between Delta Force and JSOC?
[0:43:28 - 0:43:30] ▶
Delta Force is a unit in JSOC.
[0:43:31 - 0:43:32] ▶
I think it's the 24th STS out of the Air Force, SEAL Team 6 out of the Navy, Delta out
[0:43:32 - 0:43:38] ▶
of Army and ISA out of Army as well.
[0:43:38 - 0:43:42] ▶
There might be another unit or two.
[0:43:42 - 0:43:43] ▶
I don't want to butcher that, but those are some of the primary units.
[0:43:43 - 0:43:46] ▶
And my buddy Matt Pines made the connection that Lou Elizondo is actually part of this group
[0:43:46 - 0:43:50] ▶
It's, you know, deep military intelligence, but specifically it's like going into extremely
[0:43:52 - 0:43:56] ▶
sensitive sites, you know, for JSOC.
[0:43:56 - 0:44:00] ▶
And so, you know, he might know a thing or two about UFOs from that, not just the ASAP,
[0:44:01 - 0:44:06] ▶
A-Tip, you know, whatever that experience was around 2007, 2012.
[0:44:06 - 0:44:11] ▶
And another interesting thing about Stubblebind, what we're talking about him, in the memoir
[0:44:12 - 0:44:16] ▶
Donovan New H. by Philip J. Corso.
[0:44:16 - 0:44:19] ▶
Stated, he learned that in 1986, there was a group created called the UFO Working Group,
[0:44:19 - 0:44:25] ▶
which was created to study and kind of manipulate UFOs, reverse engineering and so forth.
[0:44:25 - 0:44:29] ▶
And this was funded by the leader of US Army in SCOM, which is of course Albert Stubblebind.
[0:44:29 - 0:44:36] ▶
And to top things off, to make it even more interesting.
[0:44:36 - 0:44:38] ▶
So that's 1986 and 1984 Stubblebind left the US Army.
[0:44:38 - 0:44:42] ▶
He then went on to serve as like a chairman or a board member of BDM, which was a defense
[0:44:42 - 0:44:46] ▶
contractor bought up by TRW, which was then bought up by North of Grumman.
[0:44:46 - 0:44:51] ▶
But in 1985, Albert Stubblebind and BDM at their corporate headquarters in McLean, Virginia,
[0:44:51 - 0:44:57] ▶
created what they called the Advanced Theoretical Working Group, which was a large kind of,
[0:44:57 - 0:45:02] ▶
which was a large event classified with DOE controls to study UFO reverse engineering
[0:45:02 - 0:45:07] ▶
and crash retrieval.
[0:45:07 - 0:45:08] ▶
And we have the famous notes by Oak Shannon, which resulted from that.
[0:45:08 - 0:45:12] ▶
Oak Shannon, who was a Los Alamos project manager very high up, you had, I believe,
[0:45:12 - 0:45:18] ▶
like Ferris Williams, Ken of shoulders.
[0:45:18 - 0:45:21] ▶
John, John, D Alexander.
[0:45:21 - 0:45:22] ▶
John B Alexander, how put off.
[0:45:22 - 0:45:24] ▶
Guys like that, was Eric Davis part of this?
[0:45:24 - 0:45:27] ▶
I don't know, but I want to be surprised.
[0:45:27 - 0:45:28] ▶
He's always popping up in the same circle.
[0:45:28 - 0:45:30] ▶
Well, it's clearly this sort of working group to figure out like the physics around UFOs.
[0:45:30 - 0:45:34] ▶
And I think, according to Oak Shannon, there were some even spookier people who never speak,
[0:45:34 - 0:45:38] ▶
and they just sit in the room and they'd sort of gather intelligence on this stuff.
[0:45:38 - 0:45:42] ▶
And then when Greer started his kind of whistle blowing efforts where he started to attract,
[0:45:42 - 0:45:47] ▶
this is Stephen Greer, not just Stephen Greer, started to attract all these people coming
[0:45:47 - 0:45:50] ▶
out of the government.
[0:45:50 - 0:45:51] ▶
And speaking to him, he starts to promote this sort of CE5, like, you know, getting into
[0:45:51 - 0:45:55] ▶
contact with the UFOs, attracting them, whatever.
[0:45:55 - 0:45:58] ▶
Stubblebind and John Alexander show up around him.
[0:45:58 - 0:46:01] ▶
And I believe Stubblebind offers him a big sum of money to, like, join legacy efforts,
[0:46:01 - 0:46:07] ▶
like, join the program or something or what's the story there?
[0:46:07 - 0:46:10] ▶
So I think this, I think because of Greer's own ego and like, I have my feelings about
[0:46:10 - 0:46:14] ▶
Greer, both pros and cons, he released, he likes to frame this as, oh, Stubblebind offered
[0:46:14 - 0:46:20] ▶
me $2 billion to shut up and talk about UFOs.
[0:46:20 - 0:46:23] ▶
But I think, according to documents and emails on the DPI archive, that $2 billion which
[0:46:23 - 0:46:29] ▶
still is an egregious sum of money was to purchase Stephen Greer's institution C-SETI and
[0:46:29 - 0:46:35] ▶
integrate it into Stubblebind's work.
[0:46:35 - 0:46:37] ▶
So it wasn't just to buy off Stephen Greer.
[0:46:37 - 0:46:39] ▶
It was to basically purchase his whole institution and this was in 1992.
[0:46:39 - 0:46:45] ▶
So what do you think was so valuable about what Stephen Greer was doing in 1992 that would,
[0:46:46 - 0:46:51] ▶
I mean, maybe that was a fake offer or like, I don't know if that's real, but the real
[0:46:51 - 0:46:57] ▶
meat of the Greer saga and the Greer information starts to pick up around 97.
[0:46:57 - 0:47:03] ▶
It's really hard to track down what Greer was doing in pre-1997.
[0:47:03 - 0:47:08] ▶
Yeah, he was a practicing trauma doctor.
[0:47:09 - 0:47:12] ▶
I don't really know how he got interested in the subject, but he does say at the age
[0:47:13 - 0:47:16] ▶
of 18 and he said this in his 2024 September event that he was contacted by like a cosmic
[0:47:16 - 0:47:22] ▶
intelligence and told to basically save the world.
[0:47:22 - 0:47:25] ▶
He's brought a lot of exposure to the UFO world and he should be really vindicated and
[0:47:25 - 0:47:29] ▶
he's worked his ass off.
[0:47:29 - 0:47:30] ▶
But yes, can be a weird vibe.
[0:47:30 - 0:47:33] ▶
I think there was a really big shift in Greer.
[0:47:34 - 0:47:36] ▶
So you know, he talks about his archive release, the DPI archive, disclosure project in
[0:47:36 - 0:47:41] ▶
the issue of archives.
[0:47:41 - 0:47:42] ▶
He says it would take somebody two to four years to go through it.
[0:47:42 - 0:47:45] ▶
I've gone through the whole thing like eight times.
[0:47:46 - 0:47:48] ▶
But so in 1997, I don't know what Greer was doing before that.
[0:47:48 - 0:47:53] ▶
But in 1997, UFO researcher Bill Hamilton, William Hamilton III who wrote the book Cosmic
[0:47:53 - 0:47:59] ▶
Top Secret, I talked about in relation to Northrop Grumman.
[0:47:59 - 0:48:02] ▶
He had been in contact with Greer and this UFO researcher who I think is one of the most
[0:48:02 - 0:48:06] ▶
underappreciated people in the entire realm, he introduced Greer to various witnesses that
[0:48:06 - 0:48:11] ▶
would feature on the 2001 disclosure project, a National Press Club event where various
[0:48:11 - 0:48:16] ▶
government and private sector whistleblowers would speak.
[0:48:16 - 0:48:19] ▶
Some of these included some redacted names who I've come to learn about those people.
[0:48:19 - 0:48:23] ▶
And then Mark McCandlish and Brad Sorenson, the two primary witnesses, Brad Sorenson being
[0:48:24 - 0:48:31] ▶
the primary witness of the 1988 Northern Air Force show where an alien reproduction vehicle
[0:48:31 - 0:48:36] ▶
was shown off and Mark McCandlish, the person who created the line art drawings and so forth.
[0:48:36 - 0:48:41] ▶
And by the way, the term alien reproduction vehicle that most people associate with Greer
[0:48:41 - 0:48:45] ▶
was coined by Sorenson himself and relayed in Hamilton's 1992 book Cosmic Top Secret.
[0:48:45 - 0:48:51] ▶
He said alien replicated vehicle.
[0:48:52 - 0:48:54] ▶
And around the same time, I talked about this in around Northrop as well, Greer met a person
[0:48:55 - 0:49:00] ▶
He's since spilled the name in his archive.
[0:49:02 - 0:49:04] ▶
I just won't repeat it.
[0:49:04 - 0:49:05] ▶
But AH was, I guess, a former Boeing technician.
[0:49:06 - 0:49:09] ▶
And we can see from Hamilton and AH most of the grounds that Greer operates on today,
[0:49:09 - 0:49:15] ▶
including naming sites where programs operate at words, Air Force Base, not really right
[0:49:15 - 0:49:21] ▶
Patterson, China Lake, Dougway Proving Grounds, all of these sites.
[0:49:21 - 0:49:25] ▶
And you can see direct quotes from AH and Hamilton that have made it their way into
[0:49:25 - 0:49:30] ▶
Greer's research he's still used today.
[0:49:30 - 0:49:32] ▶
I mean, Greer's a big proprietor that Dougway Proving Grounds out in Utah saw a lot of UFO
[0:49:32 - 0:49:38] ▶
programs shipped over from Area 51.
[0:49:38 - 0:49:41] ▶
And he always quotes that 35 to 40% of programs at Area 51 were moved to Dougway in Utah.
[0:49:41 - 0:49:47] ▶
Well, if you look at AH's testimony in 2000, the year 2000 recorded, he says the exact
[0:49:47 - 0:49:52] ▶
So Greer has really built upon, like most of us, like all of us, he stood on the shoulders
[0:49:53 - 0:49:57] ▶
of giants and important people before him.
[0:49:57 - 0:50:00] ▶
But there seemed to be a real shift when he gained that sort of popularity where Greer
[0:50:00 - 0:50:06] ▶
would really, really focus on the CE5 stuff, which can really rub people the wrong way.
[0:50:06 - 0:50:12] ▶
And I think that's really mostly due to kind of the monetary incentive around it.
[0:50:12 - 0:50:16] ▶
Like he's doing CE5 cruises.
[0:50:16 - 0:50:18] ▶
And what is CE5's sort of summoning?
[0:50:18 - 0:50:20] ▶
Yes, Sionic stuff, yeah.
[0:50:23 - 0:50:24] ▶
But I think a little more spiritual, like more focus on love and light.
[0:50:24 - 0:50:27] ▶
And Greer's also been busted for posting photos of like cactuses and stuff and saying
[0:50:28 - 0:50:31] ▶
Yeah, it's this mixed bag.
[0:50:33 - 0:50:35] ▶
And it's somewhat unfortunate for you.
[0:50:35 - 0:50:38] ▶
I mean, you have to express your sort of gratitude to him, but then it's also like,
[0:50:38 - 0:50:42] ▶
sometimes you wish it came in better form.
[0:50:42 - 0:50:45] ▶
Because I've never spoken to Greer.
[0:50:46 - 0:50:48] ▶
I've never been in contact with him.
[0:50:48 - 0:50:49] ▶
I've been badmouthed by him.
[0:50:50 - 0:50:53] ▶
What do you say about you?
[0:50:54 - 0:50:55] ▶
So when Greer releases DPI archive, and I went through that and looked at all the accompanying
[0:50:55 - 0:51:02] ▶
files because with each witness ID that's redacted a lot of the time there's emails, I would
[0:51:02 - 0:51:07] ▶
look through these and I would say like, why does Greer get to talk to these people
[0:51:07 - 0:51:11] ▶
and nobody else does?
[0:51:11 - 0:51:12] ▶
So I would spend weeks tracking people down and finding out who they were and contacting
[0:51:12 - 0:51:17] ▶
I'm not sure if it's possible that I have, but at the tail end of 2024 there was a recent
[0:51:18 - 0:51:22] ▶
entry on the archive.
[0:51:22 - 0:51:23] ▶
This was a brand new person.
[0:51:23 - 0:51:24] ▶
This was the Army Public Affairs person that I talked about recently.
[0:51:24 - 0:51:29] ▶
I contacted this person.
[0:51:29 - 0:51:30] ▶
We struck up a relationship.
[0:51:30 - 0:51:31] ▶
This guy is an amazing person, but right when we started talking, he was suspicious of
[0:51:31 - 0:51:35] ▶
my motives, of course, because I reach out and I just said, hi, I found your name this
[0:51:35 - 0:51:39] ▶
way, this way, this way, because whenever I reach out to somebody from the archive, I
[0:51:39 - 0:51:42] ▶
say, hey, this is where the breach of security happened.
[0:51:42 - 0:51:45] ▶
This is how I found your name.
[0:51:45 - 0:51:46] ▶
It will not be shared.
[0:51:46 - 0:51:47] ▶
I'm not interested in contacting anybody else.
[0:51:47 - 0:51:50] ▶
This guy and I started talking and we hung up on the phone one day and he called me back
[0:51:50 - 0:51:54] ▶
He said, I need to know what you're doing.
[0:51:55 - 0:51:58] ▶
He said, I just talked to Greer and he said, you're an intelligence asset.
[0:51:59 - 0:52:04] ▶
So apparently this guy, when we hung up off the phone, he then contacted Greer because
[0:52:06 - 0:52:10] ▶
he was still in contact with Greer.
[0:52:10 - 0:52:12] ▶
He gave Greer my full name, which I would prefer if he didn't have done that, but that's
[0:52:12 - 0:52:18] ▶
Greer said I wasn't an intelligence asset.
[0:52:19 - 0:52:22] ▶
Then he said you were not an intelligence.
[0:52:23 - 0:52:25] ▶
Or he said you were an intelligence asset.
[0:52:26 - 0:52:27] ▶
Greer said I was an intelligence asset.
[0:52:28 - 0:52:29] ▶
Why is he basing that?
[0:52:29 - 0:52:30] ▶
He's just fucking saying that you're an intelligence asset.
[0:52:31 - 0:52:32] ▶
I've never talked to the guy.
[0:52:33 - 0:52:36] ▶
And for the record, on record, you'll say you don't have a security clearance.
[0:52:36 - 0:52:39] ▶
No, I don't have a security clearance.
[0:52:39 - 0:52:40] ▶
I've never been in the military.
[0:52:40 - 0:52:41] ▶
I've never been in intelligence.
[0:52:41 - 0:52:43] ▶
Graduated with a degree in engineering and I moved to.
[0:52:43 - 0:52:46] ▶
Do you have a date job or is YouTube your full time job?
[0:52:47 - 0:52:49] ▶
Mechanical engineering service engineering, it's very boring.
[0:52:50 - 0:52:52] ▶
I'd like to move to this more full time because I...
[0:52:52 - 0:52:55] ▶
Medical devices, formerly renewable energy like wind turbines and so on.
[0:52:57 - 0:53:01] ▶
But he's going to have a massive channel and do this full time.
[0:53:05 - 0:53:08] ▶
There's a lot of work in this subject that I think needs to be revisited because as much
[0:53:10 - 0:53:14] ▶
as I hate to say it, and I'm sure you realize that as well, there has been elements of circular
[0:53:14 - 0:53:19] ▶
reporting in this subject.
[0:53:19 - 0:53:20] ▶
And I'm sure, like, you know, I've been guilty of it at times.
[0:53:22 - 0:53:25] ▶
Like, I don't think you can thoroughly investigate all of this stuff and get...
[0:53:25 - 0:53:32] ▶
It's all so crazy and weird.
[0:53:32 - 0:53:35] ▶
You're going to get a little bit wrong along the way.
[0:53:35 - 0:53:37] ▶
And so, like, it's going to be this dialectical process where you have to wade through the
[0:53:37 - 0:53:42] ▶
bullshit and just have open conversations.
[0:53:42 - 0:53:44] ▶
And I think as long as people think you're a good faith actor and you're, like, earnestly
[0:53:44 - 0:53:48] ▶
showing your thought process to everybody and you're, like, getting closer to an approximation
[0:53:48 - 0:53:52] ▶
of truth, that's all you can do.
[0:53:52 - 0:53:55] ▶
And then just saying, like, admitting if you're wrong and, like, if somebody comes at you
[0:53:57 - 0:53:59] ▶
with something substantive, just, like, accepting that and incorporating it into your worldview.
[0:53:59 - 0:54:04] ▶
I think the other tricky thing is, like, people can say when you cover this topic that
[0:54:04 - 0:54:10] ▶
you are shilling a thing.
[0:54:10 - 0:54:12] ▶
And you can be a grifty.
[0:54:12 - 0:54:13] ▶
Or grifty, which is absurd.
[0:54:13 - 0:54:15] ▶
Like, I do have, like, a company that, like, encapsulates my show.
[0:54:15 - 0:54:19] ▶
I've never taken money out of the company.
[0:54:19 - 0:54:21] ▶
Like, I've never, like, made...
[0:54:21 - 0:54:23] ▶
I mean, money has come in through, like, sponsors and that sort of thing because I do
[0:54:23 - 0:54:27] ▶
want this to be sustainable.
[0:54:27 - 0:54:28] ▶
And, like, I'm down to make money on it long-term.
[0:54:29 - 0:54:33] ▶
But, like, what I was doing before was definitely more of a clear path to making, like, a lot
[0:54:33 - 0:54:38] ▶
If anything I've lost a lot of money over the last couple of years, it's kind of funny.
[0:54:39 - 0:54:45] ▶
Like, but, yeah, I don't think you can do anything else other than, like, earnestly,
[0:54:45 - 0:54:50] ▶
kind of move forward and just be humble and cool.
[0:54:50 - 0:54:53] ▶
And, like, people sense that.
[0:54:53 - 0:54:54] ▶
From what I try and do, I see a big gap in modern day in terms of investigating primarily
[0:54:57 - 0:55:03] ▶
legacy programs and witness testimony.
[0:55:03 - 0:55:06] ▶
Because historically, like, wherever you look, wherever you look in this subject, Greer
[0:55:06 - 0:55:10] ▶
kind of has his paws in post, like, 1995, because even he is in twine and stuff like the Wilson
[0:55:10 - 0:55:15] ▶
Davis memo going back that far and so forth.
[0:55:15 - 0:55:19] ▶
And guys, like, really great researchers today, like Richard Dolan, he still focuses more
[0:55:19 - 0:55:23] ▶
on, like, sightings and kind of flaps and encounters and so forth.
[0:55:23 - 0:55:26] ▶
And what he does, he's almost the best at it.
[0:55:26 - 0:55:29] ▶
Well, that's the beautiful thing about this subject is I don't...
[0:55:30 - 0:55:33] ▶
I view it as zero sum at all.
[0:55:33 - 0:55:35] ▶
Like, I actually think you're like best in the world now and you will be like so much
[0:55:35 - 0:55:40] ▶
better there because you're...
[0:55:40 - 0:55:41] ▶
Yeah, so it's like...
[0:55:44 - 0:55:45] ▶
You're like best in the world now, like tracking granular legacy activity stuff.
[0:55:45 - 0:55:49] ▶
I think I'm really good on the theory side.
[0:55:49 - 0:55:52] ▶
Like, you know, like, like, conciliance, interdomain, conciliance between, like, science
[0:55:53 - 0:55:57] ▶
and, like, theory and that sort of thing.
[0:55:57 - 0:55:59] ▶
And that's what I love.
[0:55:59 - 0:56:01] ▶
And then, you know, we have a buddy, Chris Ramsey, who has his YouTube channel, who, like,
[0:56:01 - 0:56:04] ▶
to me, I think he's going to have, like, the biggest YouTube channel on this just because
[0:56:04 - 0:56:09] ▶
His, like, the thoughtfulness that he puts into, like, production and storytelling is
[0:56:10 - 0:56:14] ▶
just next level and his skill set there is so good that he's going to open this topic
[0:56:14 - 0:56:18] ▶
up to, like, a whole new, massive, you know, a swath of people.
[0:56:18 - 0:56:25] ▶
And I think we're all, like, pretty, like...
[0:56:25 - 0:56:27] ▶
We all have egos, but they're...
[0:56:28 - 0:56:30] ▶
We're pretty, like, team players, like, you know.
[0:56:30 - 0:56:32] ▶
I think that's really cool.
[0:56:33 - 0:56:34] ▶
And it's going to be, like, a new era of this stuff where we can just, like, work together
[0:56:34 - 0:56:37] ▶
and, like, find the truth.
[0:56:37 - 0:56:38] ▶
Yeah, it's really...
[0:56:38 - 0:56:39] ▶
It's really refreshing because any...
[0:56:39 - 0:56:43] ▶
It's really refreshing to work together because I'm sure it's, like, everybody who's done
[0:56:43 - 0:56:47] ▶
some research in this subject knows, like, any sort of disclosure is not really going
[0:56:47 - 0:56:50] ▶
to come willingly, especially when it comes to UFO legacy program operations.
[0:56:50 - 0:56:56] ▶
So kind of working together and tackling cases and stuff like that is really brilliant
[0:56:56 - 0:57:00] ▶
And Chris is a great guy.
[0:57:01 - 0:57:02] ▶
You introduced me to him at the hearings.
[0:57:02 - 0:57:03] ▶
And, you know, the second he and I met, he and I were talking about Bobless Rx.
[0:57:03 - 0:57:06] ▶
He did the interview with Luigi from Project Gravitar.
[0:57:06 - 0:57:08] ▶
He spoke very highly of him.
[0:57:09 - 0:57:11] ▶
So this is this new documentary about Bobless R. Bobless R. Bobless R is obviously...
[0:57:14 - 0:57:17] ▶
If you've made it this far in the interview, you definitely know Bobless Rx.
[0:57:17 - 0:57:20] ▶
You know, famous for having claimed of, you know, reverse engineered UFOs at Area 51S4.
[0:57:22 - 0:57:28] ▶
And you know, one of Rogan's biggest episodes, this wild controversy, some holes in his
[0:57:28 - 0:57:33] ▶
background, but like, smoking Luigi and Chris, and they've actually really helped me update
[0:57:33 - 0:57:39] ▶
my take on Bobless R to the point where I think he worked at Area 51 for sure.
[0:57:39 - 0:57:45] ▶
I think he for sure worked at Area 51 probably worked at S4.
[0:57:48 - 0:57:53] ▶
And then I'm not sure that what he was shown wasn't shown to him deliberately and he wasn't
[0:57:53 - 0:58:00] ▶
given high level frameworks as sort of passage material and recruitment for legacy.
[0:58:00 - 0:58:06] ▶
Which doesn't make covering his story invalid at all.
[0:58:06 - 0:58:09] ▶
It makes it almost more interesting, but to me, it has to be covered through this like
[0:58:10 - 0:58:12] ▶
If that makes any sense.
[0:58:14 - 0:58:15] ▶
I think it's a lot of work to do this skepticism, but also like there's probably some real
[0:58:15 - 0:58:19] ▶
I mean, I've historically stayed away from Bob because I'm so biased towards wanting to believe
[0:58:21 - 0:58:24] ▶
You know, growing up, I would always hear about his, his testimony.
[0:58:26 - 0:58:27] ▶
It was the first to buy Area 51 or UFOs and flying saucers from Jeremy Corbell and his
[0:58:27 - 0:58:33] ▶
The more I study other things, the more interest I find specifically not Bobless R, reverse
[0:58:35 - 0:58:40] ▶
engineering, the sports model, propulsion systems, or reading about the files, the bodies
[0:58:40 - 0:58:44] ▶
And specifically around the facility S4, which I have good reason to believe that S4 is
[0:58:45 - 0:58:51] ▶
south of, or just southwest of Papuce mountain range, right by Papuce Lake is a real place.
[0:58:51 - 0:58:56] ▶
When what's your good reason to believe that?
[0:58:56 - 0:58:59] ▶
So there's a couple public testimonies around it.
[0:58:59 - 0:59:02] ▶
There's that I don't really want to focus on, but like Dan Berrish, Edward Fouche, Edgar
[0:59:02 - 0:59:07] ▶
Fouche, who claimed that S4 ran the Defense Advanced Research Center, the DARRS, which
[0:59:07 - 0:59:13] ▶
was found in an ARPA document in the 70s to be proposed to exist, which was an underground
[0:59:13 - 0:59:19] ▶
facility, never really proven to exist.
[0:59:19 - 0:59:22] ▶
But I've actually, I've talked to one person who has been to S4 and another person who
[0:59:22 - 0:59:28] ▶
said they won't comment on if it exists.
[0:59:28 - 0:59:30] ▶
The person who had been to S4 said he didn't see anything like crazy or extraterrestrial.
[0:59:30 - 0:59:35] ▶
He was just, went in the facility, but he did say some things that are similar to what
[0:59:35 - 0:59:39] ▶
Bobbler's are and others would say, meaning like colored pathways to show where you can walk
[0:59:39 - 0:59:43] ▶
Yeah, I think we should all wait for Luigi's documentary, Project Gravitar, because he's
[0:59:44 - 0:59:47] ▶
told me things offline that at a respect room I'm not going to share, but that give me
[0:59:47 - 0:59:52] ▶
conviction that he did work at S4 around stuff that's gotten corro- that will get corroborated
[0:59:52 - 0:59:58] ▶
So it's pretty cool.
[0:59:59 - 1:00:02] ▶
So yeah, I'm saying Chris, Chris has as well.
[1:00:02 - 1:00:04] ▶
And Chris is coming at this whole thing from an angle of like, he's a famous magician
[1:00:04 - 1:00:08] ▶
for this, debunking other magicians.
[1:00:08 - 1:00:11] ▶
And so he comes at this whole thing through a more skeptical storytelling lens.
[1:00:11 - 1:00:15] ▶
And he thinks that there's definitely something, something to the Lazar story and that he worked
[1:00:15 - 1:00:21] ▶
Yeah, I mean, if that story is true then, that's one example of a deep underground military
[1:00:22 - 1:00:25] ▶
base with a hanger built into the side of a mountain, which is really interesting.
[1:00:25 - 1:00:29] ▶
Because deep underground military bases, a lot of people associate those with conspiracies
[1:00:30 - 1:00:35] ▶
for like human trafficking or stuff like that.
[1:00:35 - 1:00:37] ▶
But those are a very real concept.
[1:00:37 - 1:00:39] ▶
There's like a very rich, rich history of deep underground military bases that started
[1:00:39 - 1:00:44] ▶
in the 1950s and 1960s out of Air Force Project Rand, which eventually became the Rand Corporation,
[1:00:44 - 1:00:50] ▶
which is a federally funded research and development center that is likely up to their
[1:00:50 - 1:00:54] ▶
eyeballs in UFO legacy programs.
[1:00:54 - 1:00:56] ▶
But why do you think there's so many things that like, when you talk, I'm like, we need
[1:00:56 - 1:01:00] ▶
to query this and this.
[1:01:00 - 1:01:01] ▶
And that's like, why is Rand so one of the things that I've done.
[1:01:01 - 1:01:05] ▶
I talk about all the time that I think is really overlooked in legacy operations is everybody
[1:01:05 - 1:01:11] ▶
likes to talk about the government, intelligence, military and contractors, you know, North
[1:01:11 - 1:01:17] ▶
Republic, North Korea, the peace that's missing, the thing between them are the federally
[1:01:17 - 1:01:22] ▶
funded research and development centers and the university affiliated research centers.
[1:01:22 - 1:01:27] ▶
These are semi-private, not-for-profit institutions that are government-owned.
[1:01:27 - 1:01:33] ▶
People to FFRDCs would be places like the MITRE Corporation, the Rand Corporation,
[1:01:33 - 1:01:38] ▶
Sandy and National Labs, Lawrence Livermore.
[1:01:38 - 1:01:41] ▶
There's one at Penn State where Eric Walker was.
[1:01:41 - 1:01:44] ▶
That's a university affiliate research center.
[1:01:44 - 1:01:46] ▶
And those are kind of another side of the same coin.
[1:01:46 - 1:01:48] ▶
And we can talk about what I think based on some good intelligence that I, what I think
[1:01:48 - 1:01:52] ▶
University affiliated research centers are like the MIT soldier nanotechnology program.
[1:01:53 - 1:01:58] ▶
Super soldier program.
[1:01:58 - 1:01:59] ▶
I think California, a creative research institute, the-
[1:02:00 - 1:02:03] ▶
And that's another really interesting thing where I think Bob Lussard might have done
[1:02:03 - 1:02:06] ▶
something in and around the MIT.
[1:02:06 - 1:02:08] ▶
Well, like, whenever he comes up with Rogan, Rogan always says, I'll tell you something
[1:02:09 - 1:02:15] ▶
offline where like it would make the MIT records being deleted, makes sense.
[1:02:15 - 1:02:19] ▶
And then he can never say it online.
[1:02:20 - 1:02:21] ▶
It could be a U-ork.
[1:02:21 - 1:02:23] ▶
That would be my guess that there's probably some interesting research, you know, that
[1:02:23 - 1:02:27] ▶
he was maybe involved in that like-
[1:02:27 - 1:02:29] ▶
Because that's from way back in the day, MIT was-
[1:02:29 - 1:02:33] ▶
Carl Compton, who was president of MIT, who was rumored to be shown the craft at right
[1:02:33 - 1:02:39] ▶
airfield with this sort of Anderson trust, these like, you know, CIA guys.
[1:02:39 - 1:02:46] ▶
And actually like be very involved in like a CUFO efforts.
[1:02:46 - 1:02:49] ▶
And so yeah, it's fascinating.
[1:02:49 - 1:02:50] ▶
And now we have the super soldier program.
[1:02:50 - 1:02:52] ▶
And so with those FFRDCs and U-Arcs, what I think based on good intelligence is that
[1:02:53 - 1:03:00] ▶
the US military and intelligence sources split between the Army, Navy, and Air Force will
[1:03:00 - 1:03:06] ▶
have a program, whether that be technology exploitation, materials research, reverse engineering
[1:03:06 - 1:03:11] ▶
or flying of alien reproduction vehicles, and direct connections will be made with the
[1:03:11 - 1:03:16] ▶
These will serve as the project manager performing subject matter expertise and research and
[1:03:18 - 1:03:23] ▶
And that will bridge the gap to the contractors, the defense corporations.
[1:03:25 - 1:03:28] ▶
Because most, as far as- as far as I'm aware, most of the contractor personnel will not
[1:03:28 - 1:03:35] ▶
necessarily know what they're working on.
[1:03:35 - 1:03:37] ▶
You know, a famous example is the Infographics Show whistleblower where he talks about a guy
[1:03:37 - 1:03:41] ▶
at Texas Instruments getting a piece of metal and not knowing what he's working on.
[1:03:41 - 1:03:44] ▶
It's the middle management of these companies at the contractors that generally know what
[1:03:44 - 1:03:48] ▶
they're working on, like the security directors and so forth.
[1:03:48 - 1:03:51] ▶
But the FFRDCs and U-Arcs allows kind of one step removal between the military and intelligence
[1:03:51 - 1:03:58] ▶
Well, but with MITRE Corporation and Rand, you would think of them as having kind of the
[1:03:59 - 1:04:05] ▶
top of the pyramid view on the technology.
[1:04:05 - 1:04:08] ▶
Like I think I believe the president of Rand Corporation for many years was a guy named
[1:04:08 - 1:04:13] ▶
Michael Rich, who's Ben Rich.
[1:04:13 - 1:04:15] ▶
Ben Rich was the president of Skunkworks that says we have the power to travel the stars,
[1:04:15 - 1:04:22] ▶
to take E.T. home and made all sorts of interesting comments like at the end of his
[1:04:22 - 1:04:26] ▶
We also called UFOs unfunded opportunities, said that we have UFOs and they have UFOs.
[1:04:27 - 1:04:32] ▶
So humans do and E.T.s do, said there was an international corporate board controlling
[1:04:32 - 1:04:38] ▶
a lot of the UFOs and maybe we needed to take it back into the hands of the U.S.
[1:04:38 - 1:04:42] ▶
Said all sorts of interesting stuff.
[1:04:43 - 1:04:44] ▶
His son was the president of Rand Corporation for decades.
[1:04:44 - 1:04:48] ▶
So I find that somewhat interesting as well.
[1:04:48 - 1:04:50] ▶
Thomas Townsend Brown, who's doing his anti-gravity experiments, the Rand Corporation shows up,
[1:04:50 - 1:04:55] ▶
sees the experiments.
[1:04:55 - 1:04:56] ▶
They have this meeting, something changes after the meeting.
[1:04:56 - 1:05:00] ▶
Townsend Brown, his experiments just fail.
[1:05:00 - 1:05:03] ▶
Something sort of nominally like they fail even though clearly they hadn't failed.
[1:05:03 - 1:05:09] ▶
And then to me it's clear there's some covert IP transfer that occurs where his anti-gravity
[1:05:09 - 1:05:17] ▶
technology gets transferred to Northrop Grumman via his investor who's a guy named Floyd
[1:05:17 - 1:05:21] ▶
Oedlam who has a majority stake in Northrop.
[1:05:21 - 1:05:25] ▶
And so there's something around the Rand Corporation there too.
[1:05:25 - 1:05:28] ▶
Rand, Miter, Sandia, you know, Sandia and Lawrence Livermore were accused by some people like
[1:05:29 - 1:05:33] ▶
a group fushae of actually reverse engineering propulsion for craft that would lead to like
[1:05:33 - 1:05:38] ▶
But you also have to look at the time when a lot of these were made specifically Miter
[1:05:41 - 1:05:45] ▶
and the aerospace corporation.
[1:05:45 - 1:05:47] ▶
They were founded in 1959 and 1960.
[1:05:47 - 1:05:49] ▶
The exact time of the golden age of Army R&D under Corso who said that there were institutions
[1:05:49 - 1:05:56] ▶
also created to study extraterrestrial technology.
[1:05:56 - 1:06:00] ▶
And if you look at what's weird and what parallels to modern day with the U.R.X. and F.O.
[1:06:00 - 1:06:04] ▶
of RDCs, if you look at US Army research and development, this is going to sound so boring
[1:06:04 - 1:06:10] ▶
But if you look at US Army primers for research and development from the 1950s and 1960s,
[1:06:11 - 1:06:16] ▶
like read through all of their proposals, you'll see under Trudeau when he was the chief
[1:06:16 - 1:06:20] ▶
of research and development for the Army, he proposed that the Army work for kind of technology
[1:06:20 - 1:06:24] ▶
transfer and technology study with URIs, university research institutes and IRILs I think it
[1:06:24 - 1:06:31] ▶
is like independent research, or something independent research laboratories similar,
[1:06:31 - 1:06:37] ▶
which are similar concepts to the U.R.X. and F.O. of RDCs made in the 90s.
[1:06:37 - 1:06:42] ▶
So we see these insane parallels to modern day.
[1:06:42 - 1:06:45] ▶
And of course, Miter was made out of project sage, which was a Lincoln Labs giant project
[1:06:45 - 1:06:50] ▶
to like make giant radar systems to study ballistic missiles and so forth.
[1:06:50 - 1:06:55] ▶
Well, it's like if you were doing any secret, if we live in the world where any science
[1:06:55 - 1:07:00] ▶
is classified, which come on.
[1:07:00 - 1:07:02] ▶
Yeah, of course we, and now like it's all coming out, you have people like, you know,
[1:07:02 - 1:07:07] ▶
Mark and Dries in Benhorowitz go to the White House, they say, well, classified math
[1:07:07 - 1:07:10] ▶
in the AI, just like we classified physics and like, you know, Eric Weinstein, my former
[1:07:10 - 1:07:15] ▶
colleague is, you know, constantly kind of opining on like this idea of the secret science
[1:07:15 - 1:07:19] ▶
It's, if you have to be stupid to not think that some science isn't classified, if we
[1:07:20 - 1:07:26] ▶
live in the world where it is classified, that stuff is going on in the places where
[1:07:26 - 1:07:30] ▶
we uphold the most secrecy, which is these DOE labs.
[1:07:30 - 1:07:33] ▶
And so like a lot of it gets like it's like a spiritual, it's like obviously, if you're
[1:07:34 - 1:07:38] ▶
doing a high energy, really intense physics, you're probably also understanding ontological
[1:07:38 - 1:07:45] ▶
truths that the rest of the public don't understand.
[1:07:45 - 1:07:48] ▶
That's often the case.
[1:07:48 - 1:07:50] ▶
Like you start to understand things about reality due to some of these experimental effects
[1:07:50 - 1:07:54] ▶
where you're breaking the bounds of, you know, our reality in some sense, you know, through
[1:07:54 - 1:08:01] ▶
these, you know, high energy experiments, like it makes sense that UFOs show up around
[1:08:01 - 1:08:06] ▶
It's high energy output.
[1:08:08 - 1:08:09] ▶
And if we live in any sort of like time bound, you know, 3D bound, like if there's anything
[1:08:09 - 1:08:14] ▶
outside of our what we perceive, you would be stress testing that every time you set a
[1:08:14 - 1:08:21] ▶
new cough, you just would.
[1:08:21 - 1:08:22] ▶
So it's like not that crazy.
[1:08:23 - 1:08:25] ▶
And yeah, I'm with you there.
[1:08:25 - 1:08:26] ▶
And I just think it's so interesting to try and investigate how players and the government
[1:08:26 - 1:08:31] ▶
and military package these concepts and these high energy experiments to classify them and
[1:08:31 - 1:08:38] ▶
keep them out of public view, especially when it involves kind of extraterrestrials or
[1:08:38 - 1:08:42] ▶
non-human intelligence.
[1:08:42 - 1:08:44] ▶
And for the for the arrow disenjoyers out there, as recently as 2024, the new arrow director
[1:08:44 - 1:08:51] ▶
John Kuzlowski said that arrow is working with both URX and FFRDC.
[1:08:51 - 1:08:55] ▶
So that's something to come on to.
[1:08:55 - 1:08:58] ▶
When Susan goes sitting right behind him to Jillabrand at the 2024 arrow hearing.
[1:09:01 - 1:09:04] ▶
And then of course when Sean Kirkpatrick left arrow, he ran off to Oak Ridge, which go look
[1:09:05 - 1:09:09] ▶
at the FFRDC's connections there.
[1:09:09 - 1:09:11] ▶
I think if you're doing a lot of interesting material science there, it's not just a nuclear
[1:09:12 - 1:09:16] ▶
Like they're doing a lot of frontier science at Oak Ridge.
[1:09:17 - 1:09:20] ▶
Many FFRDC's are owned by Betel Memorial Labs or Triad National Security LLC, which
[1:09:20 - 1:09:27] ▶
one of those three is Betel.
[1:09:27 - 1:09:29] ▶
Betel's really interesting.
[1:09:29 - 1:09:30] ▶
I mean, if there's any group out there that is studying actual biologics, it's probably
[1:09:30 - 1:09:35] ▶
They run some sort of biological materials lab out of Fort Dietrich and also a lot of
[1:09:36 - 1:09:42] ▶
really interesting classified work out at Dougway Proving Grounds.
[1:09:42 - 1:09:46] ▶
And that was always, I believe it was at the HR cross, HC cross.
[1:09:49 - 1:09:52] ▶
You know what I'm talking about?
[1:09:52 - 1:09:53] ▶
This memo that projects Stork from Betel.
[1:09:53 - 1:09:57] ▶
It's now clear and retrospective.
[1:09:58 - 1:09:59] ▶
I think this is a lot due to Richard Dolan's great research that like you had this cleaving
[1:09:59 - 1:10:05] ▶
off of the vital study of UFOs, the public facing stuff was relegated to Project Blue
[1:10:05 - 1:10:11] ▶
Book and the Air Force.
[1:10:11 - 1:10:12] ▶
And then all the private stuff was managed by Betel Memorial Institute, the CIA's Office
[1:10:12 - 1:10:17] ▶
of Scientific Intelligence and was classified under the Atomic Energy Commission, which
[1:10:17 - 1:10:21] ▶
occurred later in 54.
[1:10:21 - 1:10:22] ▶
But there was a precursor called the McMan Secrecy Act.
[1:10:22 - 1:10:25] ▶
And so it would totally make sense that Betel would have a whole lot to do with this.
[1:10:25 - 1:10:30] ▶
I believe Robert Sarbacher also told Whitley Strieber.
[1:10:30 - 1:10:34] ▶
So Sarbacher, I just interviewed Whitley Strieber.
[1:10:34 - 1:10:37] ▶
He talked to Sarbacher.
[1:10:37 - 1:10:38] ▶
He talked to Sarbacher.
[1:10:38 - 1:10:39] ▶
Sarbacher took an interest in Strieber when he published Communion.
[1:10:39 - 1:10:43] ▶
When he published Communion.
[1:10:43 - 1:10:44] ▶
I'll tell you a fairly weird story here.
[1:10:44 - 1:10:47] ▶
Stanton gave me Sarbacher's number.
[1:10:47 - 1:10:49] ▶
And then he called me back and he said, Sarbacher is waiting for you to call him.
[1:10:49 - 1:10:53] ▶
He's very eager to talk to you.
[1:10:53 - 1:10:55] ▶
So I call Sarbacher.
[1:10:55 - 1:10:57] ▶
Sarbacher proceeds to tell me all kinds of detail about the materials that he was
[1:10:57 - 1:11:04] ▶
was working on at the Patel Memorial Institute about how when when electron microscopes became
[1:11:04 - 1:11:14] ▶
operative, they understood that there was a molecular grid, a designed grid inside the
[1:11:14 - 1:11:22] ▶
inside this very thin material.
[1:11:22 - 1:11:24] ▶
And that was what made it so strong.
[1:11:24 - 1:11:26] ▶
And I think that's probably been extrapolated out into our military technology in many different
[1:11:26 - 1:11:33] ▶
We're talking about an extremely advanced scientist taking an interest in a horror novelist's
[1:11:34 - 1:11:38] ▶
And so Sarbacher is working at the highest levels of American military and he takes an interest
[1:11:40 - 1:11:44] ▶
in Whitley Strieber, reaches out, wants to speak to him, and a Strieber says they're about
[1:11:44 - 1:11:50] ▶
to meet up and Sarbacher dies.
[1:11:50 - 1:11:52] ▶
And so it's fascinating.
[1:11:53 - 1:11:55] ▶
And then again, Sarbacher's just scrubbed from the internet.
[1:11:55 - 1:11:57] ▶
But what Sarbacher I think told Strieber on the phone is that you had all this interesting
[1:11:57 - 1:12:03] ▶
material that Patel Memorial Institute was managing back in the day that Sarbacher was
[1:12:03 - 1:12:07] ▶
somewhat involved with.
[1:12:07 - 1:12:08] ▶
So just another piece of corroboration for this.
[1:12:08 - 1:12:10] ▶
And there's research to suggest that Patel also studied the like really lightweight metals
[1:12:10 - 1:12:15] ▶
out of the 1947 Roswell crash.
[1:12:15 - 1:12:18] ▶
In 1949, alongside Project Stork, they started publishing information on like shaped metal
[1:12:18 - 1:12:23] ▶
alloys, night and all.
[1:12:23 - 1:12:25] ▶
There was like a nickel alloys.
[1:12:25 - 1:12:27] ▶
Titanium nickel alloys.
[1:12:28 - 1:12:29] ▶
I used to think that Patel was kind of phased out of operations.
[1:12:29 - 1:12:34] ▶
I'm not quite sure why I thought this.
[1:12:34 - 1:12:35] ▶
But recently I've taken a huge interest in Patel being like one of the primary contractors
[1:12:35 - 1:12:39] ▶
out at Dougway Proving Grounds, which I think has a massive underground facility.
[1:12:39 - 1:12:42] ▶
I mean, I've talked to a witness who didn't go on the 2023 Greer NPC, but I've talked
[1:12:42 - 1:12:49] ▶
to him and I've interviewed him.
[1:12:49 - 1:12:50] ▶
And he, while working as a contractor for the Seamarton company at Dougway at the West
[1:12:50 - 1:12:54] ▶
Desert Test Wing in the Avery section stumbled upon a building where he saw a craft.
[1:12:54 - 1:12:59] ▶
A hovering in the air being tested on.
[1:12:59 - 1:13:02] ▶
And then Patel runs, Patel has a bunch of old contracts for making like enclosed laboratories
[1:13:04 - 1:13:10] ▶
at Dougway and stuff.
[1:13:10 - 1:13:13] ▶
That is really fascinating.
[1:13:13 - 1:13:14] ▶
Is there a Mormon connection with Dougway?
[1:13:14 - 1:13:16] ▶
Because it's in Utah.
[1:13:16 - 1:13:17] ▶
I would think of like the CIA as being fed into by a lot of Mormon.
[1:13:17 - 1:13:23] ▶
Mormons were surroundings sort of, you know, Howard Hughes.
[1:13:23 - 1:13:25] ▶
Well, the rear likes to say so, right?
[1:13:25 - 1:13:28] ▶
I haven't been able to make that connection, but I was able to make a Dougway Proving
[1:13:29 - 1:13:33] ▶
Grounds connection to one of your recent videos with James Fox.
[1:13:33 - 1:13:36] ▶
So I was rewatching your James Fox interview and he talks about the 1971, the Holleman
[1:13:37 - 1:13:43] ▶
Air Force Base footage that he talked to filmmaker Alan Sandler, who said he saw the footage
[1:13:43 - 1:13:48] ▶
and saw beans in the footage.
[1:13:48 - 1:13:49] ▶
Yeah, we show that conversation between him and Sandler.
[1:13:49 - 1:13:52] ▶
What did you see on the film?
[1:13:52 - 1:13:54] ▶
Was it black and white?
[1:13:55 - 1:13:56] ▶
What is it black and white?
[1:13:56 - 1:13:57] ▶
It was black and white.
[1:13:57 - 1:13:58] ▶
Sorry, I'm the one who made black and white.
[1:13:58 - 1:14:00] ▶
But it was nothing other than what we ended up in the book.
[1:14:00 - 1:14:04] ▶
We see the thing this round thing.
[1:14:04 - 1:14:06] ▶
And it wasn't that stable, funny part.
[1:14:06 - 1:14:08] ▶
And it landed and it door opened.
[1:14:08 - 1:14:10] ▶
And guys come up looking like they were outer space guys.
[1:14:10 - 1:14:14] ▶
So in 1971, Sandler and another filmmaker, Robert, like, Emma Nager or something like that,
[1:14:14 - 1:14:20] ▶
I think his name was Emma Nager.
[1:14:20 - 1:14:21] ▶
Yeah, Emma Nager, yeah.
[1:14:21 - 1:14:22] ▶
Yeah, they were approached by two US military officials to make a documentary and they could
[1:14:22 - 1:14:28] ▶
include the Hall of Men Air Force Base footage.
[1:14:28 - 1:14:32] ▶
One of these individuals was an Army Air Force.
[1:14:32 - 1:14:34] ▶
I can't remember a Colonel named Winebrenner.
[1:14:34 - 1:14:38] ▶
And Winebrenner was actually part of the Foreign Technology Division out of Wright Pat
[1:14:38 - 1:14:41] ▶
So that occurred in the 80s or the late 70s.
[1:14:42 - 1:14:45] ▶
And so time goes on.
[1:14:45 - 1:14:47] ▶
Winebrenner would be asked all the time about UFOs because Robert Emma Nager would go
[1:14:47 - 1:14:50] ▶
back and ask him, like, what did you think?
[1:14:50 - 1:14:52] ▶
And, you know, there's a story of a conversation where he and Winebrenner are speaking and Winebrenner
[1:14:52 - 1:14:57] ▶
saying, like, oh, UFOs don't exist.
[1:14:57 - 1:14:58] ▶
Blah, blah, blah, blah, while taking a book off his shelf and giving him a book about UFOs.
[1:14:58 - 1:15:02] ▶
But on his deathbed, there's a lot of research proposed by, like, Grant Cameron and Anthony
[1:15:02 - 1:15:06] ▶
Brigalia and so forth about Winebrenner on his deathbed saying that they house dead extra
[1:15:06 - 1:15:12] ▶
terrestrials out of facility out in Utah, which of course is Dugway Proofing Grounds.
[1:15:12 - 1:15:15] ▶
Oh, it's really crazy.
[1:15:15 - 1:15:16] ▶
Yeah, I made that connection last night.
[1:15:16 - 1:15:18] ▶
That was fun to see.
[1:15:18 - 1:15:20] ▶
The Sandler to Winebrenner to Dugway.
[1:15:20 - 1:15:22] ▶
Sammy, are you in touch with any UFO whistleblowers, not whistleblowers yet?
[1:15:22 - 1:15:27] ▶
People on the inside who have firsthand witness to crafts.
[1:15:27 - 1:15:31] ▶
And anybody who has witnessed craft in a hanger and a classified facility in the US, not
[1:15:33 - 1:15:38] ▶
just seeing a thing flying in the air.
[1:15:38 - 1:15:40] ▶
Yeah, but will they talk publicly, no?
[1:15:42 - 1:15:45] ▶
And will they discuss the full extent?
[1:15:45 - 1:15:48] ▶
Why won't they talk publicly?
[1:15:48 - 1:15:49] ▶
I do think it's important context for the audience like, we're going to get comments,
[1:15:49 - 1:15:54] ▶
trust me, bro, or whatever.
[1:15:54 - 1:15:55] ▶
Yeah, I'm not saying that to push a narrative or say, like, run with this.
[1:15:55 - 1:16:01] ▶
Like, I know people have seen this, not a trust me, bro thing.
[1:16:01 - 1:16:03] ▶
But, yeah, of course, I've talked to people I take very seriously, like, good friends
[1:16:03 - 1:16:08] ▶
that I've made who have said this.
[1:16:08 - 1:16:10] ▶
And these people are former military or intelligence.
[1:16:10 - 1:16:13] ▶
They're not contractors.
[1:16:13 - 1:16:15] ▶
I haven't heard a peep from a contractor.
[1:16:15 - 1:16:17] ▶
I think that's a whole nother story because there's like government and D.A.'s and contractor
[1:16:17 - 1:16:22] ▶
and D.A.'s and the penalties for violating those are superior.
[1:16:22 - 1:16:24] ▶
But these military people are bound by N.D.A.'s sometimes, which usually really long N.D.A.'s,
[1:16:24 - 1:16:31] ▶
like decades long or lifelong agreements.
[1:16:31 - 1:16:34] ▶
And they do not want to be the person to violate.
[1:16:34 - 1:16:36] ▶
And he's seen bodies?
[1:16:36 - 1:16:38] ▶
One of them has talked about a place in which bodies are stored.
[1:16:38 - 1:16:41] ▶
We'll say that because that might lead to people being able to identify that.
[1:16:43 - 1:16:49] ▶
Anything about the bodies?
[1:16:50 - 1:16:52] ▶
No, nothing about the bodies.
[1:16:52 - 1:16:53] ▶
Because I think that is privy to their, a lot of their N.D.A.'s and so forth.
[1:16:53 - 1:16:58] ▶
So they can't talk about that.
[1:16:58 - 1:17:01] ▶
How do you think this stuff gets so well-hidden?
[1:17:01 - 1:17:04] ▶
Like, so, okay, I think there are some really important foundational questions that the
[1:17:04 - 1:17:08] ▶
Jake Barber story brings up.
[1:17:08 - 1:17:09] ▶
So if you're coming these things on command, then you probably have a thousand plus.
[1:17:10 - 1:17:15] ▶
And if you have a thousand plus, then you'd expect more leakage.
[1:17:15 - 1:17:18] ▶
You'd expect more like, I saw the thing in the hanger and I wasn't supposed to.
[1:17:18 - 1:17:22] ▶
I took a photo and it's out.
[1:17:22 - 1:17:24] ▶
You hear rumors on the other side of this that we have 10 to 15 and they're like, you
[1:17:24 - 1:17:28] ▶
know, only select things and surround atomic sites or whatever.
[1:17:28 - 1:17:31] ▶
How many do we have?
[1:17:31 - 1:17:32] ▶
10 to 15 and a thousand plus.
[1:17:32 - 1:17:34] ▶
That's a wide range.
[1:17:34 - 1:17:36] ▶
And so clearly we can't like fully attract these things that will would be my guess.
[1:17:36 - 1:17:40] ▶
Because I think if we had a thousand plus, these things would have leaked.
[1:17:40 - 1:17:43] ▶
So you have kind of like a mental model on that.
[1:17:44 - 1:17:45] ▶
That's a good question.
[1:17:45 - 1:17:46] ▶
Because if we look at Ryan S. Woods' fantastic book Magic Eyes Only, we can find over 100
[1:17:46 - 1:17:51] ▶
cases of UFO crash retrieval.
[1:17:51 - 1:17:54] ▶
And even if only 20% of those are true, that's still, you know, above 20.
[1:17:54 - 1:17:58] ▶
There's also claims by Greer and others that at some of these black sites, one to two
[1:17:58 - 1:18:03] ▶
craft are brought down a year.
[1:18:03 - 1:18:06] ▶
So I have no conceivable notion of how many craft have been brought down or why they're
[1:18:06 - 1:18:11] ▶
You know, you got guys like Philip J. Corso who talk about the initial Roswell crash being
[1:18:12 - 1:18:16] ▶
due to kind of conflicting radio signatures messing with craft navigation.
[1:18:16 - 1:18:21] ▶
You have testimonies like the 1953 Kingman Arizona crash where possibly nuclear testing
[1:18:21 - 1:18:26] ▶
from Operation Upshot Knothole, mess with craft.
[1:18:26 - 1:18:29] ▶
And then you have Barbara's testimony that psionic abilities can forcefully land craft or bring
[1:18:29 - 1:18:34] ▶
them down or they have EM weapons to target the craft and bring them down.
[1:18:34 - 1:18:38] ▶
And then there's also stories about the 1983 Strategic Defense Initiative instituted by
[1:18:38 - 1:18:42] ▶
Ronald Reagan, which was to act against Soviet Union.
[1:18:42 - 1:18:45] ▶
This is the Star Wars programs.
[1:18:45 - 1:18:46] ▶
Yeah, this is the Star Wars programs.
[1:18:46 - 1:18:47] ▶
I've talked to numerous people and I talk about this all the time in my projects that
[1:18:47 - 1:18:51] ▶
this likely had a back door to both fund UAP programs and act offensively against UAP.
[1:18:51 - 1:18:56] ▶
So there seems to be numerous methods for them to crash accidentally or be brought down
[1:18:56 - 1:19:00] ▶
How often is that successful?
[1:19:01 - 1:19:03] ▶
And what sort of technology is being brought down?
[1:19:04 - 1:19:06] ▶
In Jake's case, we have the testimony of the egg and the egg gone.
[1:19:06 - 1:19:09] ▶
And there's also the classic saucer and so forth.
[1:19:09 - 1:19:14] ▶
This technology is obviously not ubiquitous.
[1:19:14 - 1:19:17] ▶
There's different types of technology.
[1:19:17 - 1:19:18] ▶
There's different craft design.
[1:19:18 - 1:19:19] ▶
One could reasonably assume then there's different types of NHI, some man, some not man.
[1:19:19 - 1:19:25] ▶
I often think back to the 2008, I'll say this slow because it's of course very complicated.
[1:19:25 - 1:19:31] ▶
But the 2008 contractor that rhymes with Bockey Barton wanting to divest themselves of a
[1:19:31 - 1:19:37] ▶
David Grush said this on J.O.
[1:19:40 - 1:19:41] ▶
So the 2008 when Lockheed wanted to get rid of materials to the OSAP program through
[1:19:43 - 1:19:49] ▶
the CIA office of the directorate of science and technology, Glenn Gaffney.
[1:19:49 - 1:19:53] ▶
And he blocked that.
[1:19:53 - 1:19:55] ▶
He blocked that and stopped that from happening.
[1:19:56 - 1:19:57] ▶
And I have really good reason to believe that this was the 1950...
[1:19:57 - 1:20:01] ▶
This was materials for the craft from the 1953 Kingman crash.
[1:20:01 - 1:20:05] ▶
And there's also other lines of research.
[1:20:05 - 1:20:06] ▶
I believe that, Dave.
[1:20:06 - 1:20:07] ▶
And there's other lines of research to suggest that Lockheed, the only reason they were
[1:20:09 - 1:20:12] ▶
able to give this up is because they were completely comfortable in the fact that no
[1:20:12 - 1:20:18] ▶
contractor, no other contractor, no other foreign government or no US government could make
[1:20:18 - 1:20:23] ▶
any heads or tails of this technology.
[1:20:23 - 1:20:25] ▶
And that stands out to huge juxtaposition from all the other stories of alien reproduction
[1:20:25 - 1:20:28] ▶
vehicles being created.
[1:20:28 - 1:20:29] ▶
Yeah, so where are you there?
[1:20:29 - 1:20:31] ▶
Because I think this is really important is like how much have we actually reverse engineered
[1:20:31 - 1:20:36] ▶
made progress and made these things flyable?
[1:20:36 - 1:20:38] ▶
And you've gone really deep on this interesting story of Mark McCandleys and Brad Sornson.
[1:20:38 - 1:20:43] ▶
But I'd love to hear...
[1:20:43 - 1:20:44] ▶
Let's go over that story.
[1:20:44 - 1:20:46] ▶
And then I also just want to kind of zoom out and get your view on like, have we reverse
[1:20:46 - 1:20:50] ▶
engineered UFOs effectively.
[1:20:50 - 1:20:52] ▶
So Brad Sornson, he's an industrial designer with his friend Aerospace Illustrator who had
[1:20:53 - 1:21:00] ▶
worked for Defense Contractors Popular Science Mark McCandleys.
[1:21:00 - 1:21:04] ▶
In either October to December of 1980.
[1:21:04 - 1:21:07] ▶
So McCandleys is a top aviation illustrator working with the biggest contractors.
[1:21:08 - 1:21:12] ▶
And you hear him speak and like, the guy doesn't seem like a liar to me.
[1:21:12 - 1:21:16] ▶
He was super smart and like just almost like slightly, I don't want to say autistic, but
[1:21:17 - 1:21:23] ▶
like, you just hear him speaking, he uses authenticity.
[1:21:23 - 1:21:27] ▶
So Mark and Brad are to go to an air show at Northern Air Force Base in 1988.
[1:21:29 - 1:21:35] ▶
Mark had to not go to do work for popular mechanics.
[1:21:35 - 1:21:38] ▶
We can actually see the cover of that magazine he worked on.
[1:21:38 - 1:21:41] ▶
So Brad goes with some former high up official, I initially at the time thought it might have
[1:21:41 - 1:21:46] ▶
been Frank Carlucci, but it might have been somebody else he went with.
[1:21:46 - 1:21:50] ▶
The air shows going on, there's all types of interesting stuff, you know, fighters, advanced
[1:21:50 - 1:21:54] ▶
technologies and so forth.
[1:21:54 - 1:21:56] ▶
And then the person Brad is with brings him to a classified exhibit at another hangar
[1:21:56 - 1:22:01] ▶
and passes Brad off as his aide.
[1:22:01 - 1:22:03] ▶
This was a former like Secretary of Defense or really high up person and there were other
[1:22:03 - 1:22:09] ▶
senators there, George E. Brown, Jr.
[1:22:09 - 1:22:12] ▶
Cranston and so forth.
[1:22:12 - 1:22:14] ▶
Mark kind of thought this might have been flown down to Air Force Plant 42, a couple miles
[1:22:14 - 1:22:18] ▶
After further research and talking to some people, I do think this event did occur at
[1:22:19 - 1:22:22] ▶
So Brad Swarinson has brought into a hangar where all sorts of advanced aerospace vehicles
[1:22:23 - 1:22:28] ▶
are shown off like this is like a back of the house, more secret version of the air
[1:22:28 - 1:22:32] ▶
show only for select people.
[1:22:32 - 1:22:34] ▶
And so there's like a hovercraft, there's the losing competitor to the B2 spirit bomber
[1:22:34 - 1:22:38] ▶
There's a craft called the pulsar, which is likely a locky Northrop group craft.
[1:22:39 - 1:22:45] ▶
It's an unmanned UAV unmanned aerial vehicle and it was designed to go at incredible speeds
[1:22:45 - 1:22:51] ▶
with scramjet technology to go super fast that could deploy like 120 nuclear warheads on
[1:22:51 - 1:22:56] ▶
its underbelly, insane piece of technology.
[1:22:56 - 1:22:59] ▶
This whole giant hangar is separated by black curtain.
[1:22:59 - 1:23:04] ▶
So eventually they go to the other side of the black curtain and that's where mama,
[1:23:04 - 1:23:07] ▶
baby and pop a bear are.
[1:23:07 - 1:23:09] ▶
These are three flying saucers hovering off the ground.
[1:23:09 - 1:23:12] ▶
They're all in composition but scale to different sizes.
[1:23:12 - 1:23:16] ▶
What stood out to me from, so, and they, these look like eight corn shaped, is that right?
[1:23:16 - 1:23:22] ▶
Yeah, it looks like a jello mold with have a ping pong ball at the top.
[1:23:22 - 1:23:26] ▶
So sort of a typical saucer shape or maybe what you would see in the Kecksburg crash
[1:23:27 - 1:23:30] ▶
of 1965 or the Seikors.
[1:23:30 - 1:23:31] ▶
Like a dome on top and that.
[1:23:32 - 1:23:34] ▶
Yeah, like a dome on top.
[1:23:34 - 1:23:35] ▶
And I want to pause here for a second because historically people have said that Mark
[1:23:35 - 1:23:39] ▶
McCandlish has relayed this story second hand which he has because he created a line
[1:23:39 - 1:23:42] ▶
art of the craft which will go into in a second.
[1:23:42 - 1:23:44] ▶
But this was not supposed to be published what I found and I was told it wasn't supposed
[1:23:44 - 1:23:50] ▶
to be published by a person.
[1:23:50 - 1:23:51] ▶
But I found an original interview from I think 1990 with Brad Sorensen and Bill Scott of
[1:23:51 - 1:23:56] ▶
Aviation Week and Space Technology.
[1:23:56 - 1:23:59] ▶
So for the no longer is this a second hand retelling, no, this is straight from Brad Sorensen.
[1:23:59 - 1:24:04] ▶
Okay, this is not a second hand encounter.
[1:24:04 - 1:24:06] ▶
This is straight from Brad, who by the way gave me death threats.
[1:24:06 - 1:24:08] ▶
Yeah, he sent you some pretty weird shots across the bow and said something about so Mark
[1:24:10 - 1:24:15] ▶
McCandlish died a sort of strange death.
[1:24:15 - 1:24:17] ▶
And he said something like I couldn't protect him anymore or something.
[1:24:18 - 1:24:22] ▶
And then I believe the filmmaker who made this documentary, I forget what the name of
[1:24:22 - 1:24:26] ▶
the documentary is on Mark McCandlish, which is called zero point.
[1:24:26 - 1:24:30] ▶
Something about zero point.
[1:24:30 - 1:24:31] ▶
Yeah, the hunt for zero point.
[1:24:31 - 1:24:32] ▶
It's not the hunt for zero point but something about the story of Mark McCandlish.
[1:24:32 - 1:24:34] ▶
Something like that.
[1:24:35 - 1:24:36] ▶
I think James Allen.
[1:24:36 - 1:24:37] ▶
He died in a weird way.
[1:24:38 - 1:24:39] ▶
The progress of cancer in his autopsy report.
[1:24:39 - 1:24:41] ▶
It showed evidence of heavy metal poisoning.
[1:24:41 - 1:24:43] ▶
And I've actually talked to the editor of that interview since and he said that they had received
[1:24:44 - 1:24:47] ▶
kind of threats like men and black type encounters and so forth.
[1:24:47 - 1:24:52] ▶
So somebody did not want this out.
[1:24:52 - 1:24:54] ▶
And so, okay, Brad Sorensen actually has a first hand interview with Bill Scott of Aviation.
[1:24:54 - 1:24:59] ▶
He goes back to the early 90s.
[1:25:00 - 1:25:01] ▶
So what does he say?
[1:25:06 - 1:25:07] ▶
There was a demonstration by like cats and suits with kind of a VCR and a video showing
[1:25:07 - 1:25:13] ▶
the craft over a dry lake bed hopping, hopping, hopping, shooting up into the air.
[1:25:13 - 1:25:18] ▶
And there were some panels pulled off of the craft and essentially the bottom portion had
[1:25:18 - 1:25:22] ▶
what looked like a giant like Tesla coil almost like copper plates and a rotary arm to reach
[1:25:22 - 1:25:28] ▶
The top part looked like a removable crew cabin.
[1:25:29 - 1:25:32] ▶
This had F4 Phantom jump seat, super crap like a hand ball control mechanism which by
[1:25:32 - 1:25:38] ▶
the way that was the control mechanism for the triangular craft and secret machines by
[1:25:38 - 1:25:41] ▶
But that's all another story.
[1:25:42 - 1:25:45] ▶
And the thing looked like all three looked like crap.
[1:25:45 - 1:25:48] ▶
Sorensen said that it looked like it was made by scientists, not engineers.
[1:25:48 - 1:25:53] ▶
There was no beauty and design.
[1:25:53 - 1:25:55] ▶
There was no streamlining of features.
[1:25:55 - 1:25:58] ▶
There was slag on it, chips.
[1:25:58 - 1:26:00] ▶
These things looked like they had beaten up.
[1:26:00 - 1:26:01] ▶
They were rivets on the outside.
[1:26:01 - 1:26:03] ▶
And so eventually during the pitch for this was to garner funding because Reagan had put
[1:26:03 - 1:26:08] ▶
a lot of effort into this project with Star Wars and so forth and the incoming administration
[1:26:08 - 1:26:14] ▶
they wanted to see just as much advanced aerospace money put in.
[1:26:14 - 1:26:19] ▶
And so the story behind this by the men in charge was that these craft were created,
[1:26:19 - 1:26:24] ▶
were copied from technology found in a crash in 47.
[1:26:24 - 1:26:28] ▶
The technology was not given to us.
[1:26:28 - 1:26:30] ▶
It was forcibly taken.
[1:26:30 - 1:26:31] ▶
It was never meant to be had.
[1:26:31 - 1:26:33] ▶
The people who was taken from are the things that it was taken from was taken forcefully.
[1:26:33 - 1:26:39] ▶
And that this was our poor man's interpretation of how this technology worked.
[1:26:39 - 1:26:45] ▶
So interesting because yeah, that's the rumor about Roswell.
[1:26:45 - 1:26:47] ▶
It was high powered radar that we sort of, you know, that messed with interfered with
[1:26:47 - 1:26:53] ▶
the flight patterns of these UFOs.
[1:26:53 - 1:26:55] ▶
And they come down and we weren't meant to have this stuff.
[1:26:55 - 1:26:58] ▶
And then you hear rumors in and around legacy programs of like whatever beings are in control
[1:26:58 - 1:27:04] ▶
of the UFOs like want their stuff back.
[1:27:04 - 1:27:06] ▶
It are extremely angry at the legacy UFO programs.
[1:27:06 - 1:27:10] ▶
And so that gets all sorts of weird ontological questions there.
[1:27:10 - 1:27:13] ▶
But I want to stick with the court details.
[1:27:13 - 1:27:16] ▶
So what else gives you conviction that this is true and that we do have flyable UFOs because
[1:27:16 - 1:27:22] ▶
I just think, you know, so many people are going to sort of be skeptical about that.
[1:27:22 - 1:27:26] ▶
I completely understand it's such a crazy topic.
[1:27:27 - 1:27:28] ▶
But this was the birthplace of what we'll call ARV, alien reproduction vehicle.
[1:27:28 - 1:27:33] ▶
This was kind of the first ever big testimony of it.
[1:27:33 - 1:27:35] ▶
And Mark McCandalish before he passed in 2020 due to a self-inflicted gunshot wound that,
[1:27:35 - 1:27:40] ▶
you know, who knows, he investigated the flux liner, what it was called ARV multiple times.
[1:27:40 - 1:27:47] ▶
He talked to an individual named Kent Celen who said he saw this over Edwards Air Force
[1:27:47 - 1:27:51] ▶
He has an image taken by a pilot Harvey something.
[1:27:53 - 1:27:56] ▶
I can't quite remember over Provo, Utah right by Dougway Proving Drone in the 60s.
[1:27:56 - 1:28:01] ▶
And that looks identical down to the synthetic vision system on the outside, which was an
[1:28:01 - 1:28:06] ▶
array of cameras to kind of point to a location.
[1:28:06 - 1:28:09] ▶
That's what's so interesting about this.
[1:28:09 - 1:28:10] ▶
It's as if we were given this sort of intact shell.
[1:28:10 - 1:28:14] ▶
And then we retroactively patchworked on like kind of low tech.
[1:28:14 - 1:28:19] ▶
Like the jump seats.
[1:28:20 - 1:28:21] ▶
And the cameras and then you kind of like make the like make this thing at work.
[1:28:22 - 1:28:25] ▶
But like it's this really low tech combined with a really high tech that we were given or something.
[1:28:25 - 1:28:31] ▶
But this isn't the only example.
[1:28:31 - 1:28:32] ▶
You know, there's the controversial account of Edgar Fouche.
[1:28:32 - 1:28:35] ▶
A lot of people like to discount, especially because they like to say that Fouche has
[1:28:36 - 1:28:40] ▶
been debunked due to a lot of controversy with the alien scientists that I still think
[1:28:40 - 1:28:44] ▶
is it's really worth revisiting.
[1:28:44 - 1:28:46] ▶
I talked about it a little bit.
[1:28:46 - 1:28:47] ▶
The alien scientist is just a YouTuber named Jeremy Reeves.
[1:28:47 - 1:28:49] ▶
He's a relationship with Fouche.
[1:28:50 - 1:28:51] ▶
Yeah, yeah, he's cool.
[1:28:54 - 1:28:55] ▶
But he's pretty critical of Fouche.
[1:28:55 - 1:28:58] ▶
So yeah, what's up with Edgar Fouche?
[1:28:58 - 1:29:00] ▶
So Fouche was a use-aff master sergeant that actually has been...
[1:29:00 - 1:29:04] ▶
Your use-aff is an average.
[1:29:04 - 1:29:05] ▶
You know, I'd say it's air force.
[1:29:05 - 1:29:06] ▶
He has verifiable work at Area 51 in the 70s.
[1:29:07 - 1:29:09] ▶
And he said while studying Area 51, he would work on like advanced satellite uplinks and
[1:29:10 - 1:29:14] ▶
He would come to learn from various friends, you know, including some NSA officials of the
[1:29:16 - 1:29:21] ▶
TR3B reverse engineered flying triangle.
[1:29:21 - 1:29:25] ▶
Weirdly enough, I've talked to a guy who former Army in the mid 2010s who said he saw
[1:29:26 - 1:29:31] ▶
like a triangle craft jet off of an Airway in Area 51.
[1:29:31 - 1:29:36] ▶
That's pretty interesting.
[1:29:36 - 1:29:37] ▶
Well, we can say this now because I said this in my piece with Randy Anderson.
[1:29:37 - 1:29:40] ▶
Randy Anderson, you know, who you introduced me to this Green Beret, amazing guy who claimed
[1:29:40 - 1:29:45] ▶
to be taken, you know, to this off-world technology's division naval surface worker,
[1:29:45 - 1:29:49] ▶
Also occasionally does contractor work at Area 51 and he told...
[1:29:50 - 1:29:53] ▶
He's told both of us now and I've said this publicly that he has seen triangle craft
[1:29:53 - 1:29:59] ▶
that he can only presume to use his electro-gravity propulsion because it's not using, you know,
[1:29:59 - 1:30:05] ▶
normal flight principles at least observably to him.
[1:30:05 - 1:30:08] ▶
Take off at Area 51.
[1:30:08 - 1:30:09] ▶
Well, this is even a separate guy, too.
[1:30:10 - 1:30:12] ▶
So then you have another guy.
[1:30:13 - 1:30:14] ▶
Yeah, he said that this took off during a...in the Chow Hall at Area 51 during classified
[1:30:14 - 1:30:21] ▶
take-offs of aircraft.
[1:30:21 - 1:30:23] ▶
The windows are supposed to be lower and nobody looks outside, but because he was with a
[1:30:23 - 1:30:26] ▶
kernel, they just kind of looked outside and a craft took up and just drove any of the
[1:30:26 - 1:30:30] ▶
dust around it, shot up silently, just vertically straight up.
[1:30:30 - 1:30:34] ▶
And there's so many stories about this, even Paul Benowitz, who was totally mentally
[1:30:34 - 1:30:39] ▶
screwed up with and siopped by Rick Doty Air Force Office of Special Investigation.
[1:30:39 - 1:30:43] ▶
The project made his great book by Greg Bishop, documents all of this.
[1:30:43 - 1:30:48] ▶
You know, like even hit the reason that he got onto the radar of all these kind of like
[1:30:48 - 1:30:53] ▶
counter-intel people was because he saw this craft, you know, vertically taking off and
[1:30:53 - 1:30:57] ▶
landing at Curtlyn Air Force Base that looked to be like it was employing exotic flight
[1:30:57 - 1:31:02] ▶
And we know from William Steinman, this great researcher, UFO researcher, that this guy,
[1:31:03 - 1:31:07] ▶
Eric Kenry Wang, who ran special projects at Wright Patterson, or Wright Airfield at the
[1:31:07 - 1:31:12] ▶
time, was taken to Curtlyn Air Force Base to work probably on some of this exotic flight
[1:31:12 - 1:31:17] ▶
And Wang was also talked about by primary Kingman witness, Arthur Stansel, Jr.
[1:31:19 - 1:31:22] ▶
So that's funny, too.
[1:31:23 - 1:31:25] ▶
But this craft, the TR3B, there were allegedly multiple versions of prototype and operational
[1:31:25 - 1:31:30] ▶
version ranging from 200 to 600 feet in diameter, crewing four serving as logistics and transportation
[1:31:30 - 1:31:38] ▶
for what could only be known as a secret space fleet.
[1:31:38 - 1:31:41] ▶
The propulsion device for this system was reverse engineered by Sandia and Livermore
[1:31:41 - 1:31:45] ▶
The program was ran by the NSA CIA in NRO and the contractors at work were Northrop Grumman,
[1:31:47 - 1:31:53] ▶
Lockheed Martin, Boeing, a couple others.
[1:31:53 - 1:31:55] ▶
But here's what's, hey, it says this all makes so much noise.
[1:31:55 - 1:31:58] ▶
But here's what I think is the most stuff you learn.
[1:31:58 - 1:32:01] ▶
This is the most interesting part to me about the whole TR3B thing.
[1:32:01 - 1:32:05] ▶
Fusha says the pilots for this were plucked from the Air Force test pilot school, which
[1:32:06 - 1:32:10] ▶
takes place at Edwards, which is the 412th test wing.
[1:32:10 - 1:32:14] ▶
There's a witness that contacted Greer in 2023 that I found his name, investigated him
[1:32:14 - 1:32:20] ▶
thoroughly in an Edwards piece that claimed he operated out of Edwards Air Force Base
[1:32:20 - 1:32:25] ▶
in Nellis and Area 51 on testing reverse engineered vehicles.
[1:32:25 - 1:32:29] ▶
I have shown you a little bit about this guy, including like the work he did at the Pentagon
[1:32:29 - 1:32:33] ▶
and Nellis and Edwards.
[1:32:33 - 1:32:36] ▶
And he was a director of an electronics warfare group at Edwards under the 412th test wing,
[1:32:36 - 1:32:43] ▶
which is exactly what Fusha said tested the TR3B vehicles.
[1:32:43 - 1:32:46] ▶
That is a phenomenal case.
[1:32:46 - 1:32:48] ▶
So what does he say exactly?
[1:32:48 - 1:32:50] ▶
So he said he tested reverse engineered vehicles at Area 51.
[1:32:50 - 1:32:54] ▶
At Area 51 and Edwards.
[1:32:54 - 1:32:57] ▶
So he said in 1998 to 2002, this guy Ed was briefed into programs that while he was
[1:32:57 - 1:33:03] ▶
at Nellis under the 98th Range Wing, which became the Nevada Test and Training Range,
[1:33:03 - 1:33:08] ▶
which is pretty interesting in itself.
[1:33:08 - 1:33:11] ▶
But then in about 2006, he was sent to Edwards to actually work and set programs as a director
[1:33:11 - 1:33:15] ▶
of an electronics warfare group.
[1:33:15 - 1:33:17] ▶
And like I vetted this guy quite well.
[1:33:17 - 1:33:20] ▶
I've tried to contact him in numerous ways.
[1:33:20 - 1:33:22] ▶
Would you ever put it out a story with him?
[1:33:22 - 1:33:24] ▶
If he would talk to me, I would instantly instantly.
[1:33:24 - 1:33:27] ▶
So you just know about it.
[1:33:27 - 1:33:28] ▶
You're not in contact with him.
[1:33:28 - 1:33:29] ▶
My number is blocked by him.
[1:33:29 - 1:33:30] ▶
I've tried to call him.
[1:33:30 - 1:33:31] ▶
He told me about it.
[1:33:32 - 1:33:33] ▶
I've tried to message him on social media.
[1:33:33 - 1:33:35] ▶
Funny enough, one time he accepted a Snapchat request.
[1:33:35 - 1:33:38] ▶
But he never got back.
[1:33:39 - 1:33:41] ▶
So this is what I think one of the most consequential, untapped testimonies there is.
[1:33:42 - 1:33:45] ▶
So many of these guys, as soon as you initiate contact, they say a little thing and they say
[1:33:45 - 1:33:50] ▶
a thing, they get kind of excited and then they get spooked.
[1:33:50 - 1:33:53] ▶
Well, Greer did the right thing with this witness, Ed.
[1:33:53 - 1:33:55] ▶
He was going to bring him in front of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to testify.
[1:33:55 - 1:34:00] ▶
The guy got cold feet right beforehand.
[1:34:00 - 1:34:02] ▶
And I, like, I had this confirmed to me by elements of Senate and so forth.
[1:34:02 - 1:34:06] ▶
So this isn't just Greer saying that.
[1:34:06 - 1:34:08] ▶
But this guy was supposed to testify.
[1:34:08 - 1:34:10] ▶
By like a Senate aid or like...
[1:34:10 - 1:34:12] ▶
And this guy was supposed to speak, but got cold feet.
[1:34:15 - 1:34:16] ▶
Why is that because he was threatened?
[1:34:16 - 1:34:17] ▶
There's other, if you look through the Greer archive, there's other witnesses.
[1:34:18 - 1:34:21] ▶
It's actually really interesting to see witnesses who are going to talk to Greer and so forth,
[1:34:21 - 1:34:25] ▶
but then say they've been threatened with some really horrible crimes.
[1:34:25 - 1:34:29] ▶
Like really gross stuff.
[1:34:29 - 1:34:30] ▶
Yeah, that if they continue to talk will happen.
[1:34:31 - 1:34:34] ▶
I just don't understand why there isn't some sort of limited disclosure around these things
[1:34:34 - 1:34:39] ▶
existing because it's like in the event in which, you know, we're at par with China
[1:34:39 - 1:34:44] ▶
and Russia, why wouldn't you let out some like basic surface area that the stuff exists?
[1:34:44 - 1:34:49] ▶
Like that's what is it?
[1:34:49 - 1:34:51] ▶
Just this bureaucratic bullshit overhang or are there real national security reasons for
[1:34:51 - 1:34:55] ▶
not letting this stuff out?
[1:34:55 - 1:34:56] ▶
And not letting it fool you out, but like, like nuclear physics is not classified.
[1:34:56 - 1:35:01] ▶
Nuclear trade secrets are.
[1:35:01 - 1:35:02] ▶
Why can't, why is that not fully analogous to this?
[1:35:02 - 1:35:05] ▶
I mean, it must be even looking at the testimony of Ed.
[1:35:05 - 1:35:07] ▶
He said 2009 to 2010, he was part of an Air Force going public plan that was called
[1:35:07 - 1:35:11] ▶
off by a two star general.
[1:35:11 - 1:35:13] ▶
I think, yeah, there are all these, it was like you had under the Bush White House,
[1:35:13 - 1:35:20] ▶
They were going to do this sort of, you know, possible, they were going to, they were
[1:35:21 - 1:35:24] ▶
thinking about disclosure and how put off was part of this advisory group and they were
[1:35:24 - 1:35:28] ▶
And anyways, Bush 43, so how put off is on record saying that Bush 43 contemplated
[1:35:29 - 1:35:34] ▶
disclosure with Stephen Hadley, national security advisor and Dick Cheney who, David
[1:35:34 - 1:35:40] ▶
Grush's on record saying, you know, was one of the gatekeepers for the program and they
[1:35:40 - 1:35:47] ▶
decided that it was too ontologically shocking to let this out and that we, you know, we couldn't
[1:35:47 - 1:35:51] ▶
publicly disclose about UFOs.
[1:35:51 - 1:35:54] ▶
And I think that turned into a group where they were reading about, like they're reading
[1:35:54 - 1:35:57] ▶
the three body problem and other things like that.
[1:35:57 - 1:36:00] ▶
So super interesting.
[1:36:00 - 1:36:03] ▶
I mean, this could also boil down.
[1:36:03 - 1:36:05] ▶
And the three body problem for people that don't know is a science, a Chinese science
[1:36:05 - 1:36:08] ▶
It's a great series.
[1:36:09 - 1:36:10] ▶
It's a great series and it involves basically like aliens controlling almost all frontier
[1:36:10 - 1:36:15] ▶
And sort of reality itself and being able to stagnate but also, you know, upstart physics.
[1:36:17 - 1:36:22] ▶
And yeah, reality being sort of information theoretic and nature and the whole, the whole
[1:36:22 - 1:36:27] ▶
thing is so fascinating.
[1:36:27 - 1:36:29] ▶
And this could all deal with the subject of ARVs but real quick, you mentioned Dick Cheney,
[1:36:29 - 1:36:35] ▶
a little interesting factoid is there is a supposed S4 whistleblower named Derek Hennessy who
[1:36:35 - 1:36:41] ▶
claimed he was a Navy seal.
[1:36:41 - 1:36:42] ▶
He wasn't a Navy seal.
[1:36:42 - 1:36:43] ▶
I had this confirmed so already not off to a good start.
[1:36:43 - 1:36:45] ▶
But he claimed he worked at S4 and sometime in the mid 90s that Dick Cheney came into S4.
[1:36:45 - 1:36:51] ▶
But the funny connection there is that I can't remember the exact year but Dick Cheney was
[1:36:51 - 1:36:55] ▶
actually going around to air bases around the US to close up what he didn't think was
[1:36:55 - 1:37:00] ▶
operating efficiently.
[1:37:00 - 1:37:01] ▶
So that's kind of a story.
[1:37:01 - 1:37:02] ▶
He was going around to air force bases.
[1:37:03 - 1:37:05] ▶
But we don't, but Derek Hennessy lied about being a seal so we don't know what's up.
[1:37:06 - 1:37:09] ▶
So we don't know what's up.
[1:37:09 - 1:37:10] ▶
So we're still there.
[1:37:10 - 1:37:11] ▶
So I mean, yeah, the Dick Cheney thing, I don't know what to think about it but if there
[1:37:12 - 1:37:16] ▶
was a government behind our government, Dick Cheney would be the tip of the spear of
[1:37:16 - 1:37:22] ▶
And there's Barton Gelman biography of him, his called The Angler.
[1:37:23 - 1:37:28] ▶
And it's like that dude single handedly architected the Iraq war based on like false intelligence.
[1:37:28 - 1:37:33] ▶
And he was a representative of a lot of all the garrick sort of corporate interests and
[1:37:33 - 1:37:39] ▶
then Halbert gets the contract once we kind of screw up Iraq and then he gets the contract.
[1:37:39 - 1:37:44] ▶
It's like there's something to that guy where you even read George W. Bush's book Decision
[1:37:44 - 1:37:50] ▶
Points and you're like, yeah, your decisions locally are being made based on certain intelligence
[1:37:50 - 1:37:56] ▶
And those decisions actually don't seem extremely irrational at each moment.
[1:37:57 - 1:38:01] ▶
And then it's like who's giving you the intel?
[1:38:01 - 1:38:03] ▶
And it's fucking Dick Cheney and like there's some other guys like Wolf Whits and he's sort
[1:38:03 - 1:38:08] ▶
of cast of Neo Con characters but like Cheney's at the heart of it.
[1:38:08 - 1:38:12] ▶
Yeah, I mean, he would make sense as a person at the top of the pyramid like, like Russia's.
[1:38:12 - 1:38:17] ▶
There's a person at the top of pyramid and maybe of a lineage.
[1:38:18 - 1:38:21] ▶
I'm about to do a piece on Henry Kissinger and UFOs.
[1:38:21 - 1:38:23] ▶
And I think there's some connections there and it's like if you pick a modern Henry Kissinger
[1:38:25 - 1:38:28] ▶
it would be Dick Cheney.
[1:38:28 - 1:38:29] ▶
You know, it's like this guy is the man behind the man.
[1:38:30 - 1:38:33] ▶
But so we were talking about the ARV and the TR3B.
[1:38:34 - 1:38:38] ▶
And according to Fouche and so forth, that's not the only triangular alien reproduction vehicle.
[1:38:39 - 1:38:44] ▶
That's that's in kind of UFO lore.
[1:38:44 - 1:38:47] ▶
There's also a few reference forensic artists I've talked about this a few times Bill McDonald
[1:38:47 - 1:38:51] ▶
who's done a lot of work on drawing the Roswell craft.
[1:38:51 - 1:38:54] ▶
He actually worked with Robert and Ryan Wood to create the two extraterrestrial biological
[1:38:54 - 1:38:59] ▶
entities mentioned in the majestic document, the special operations manual.
[1:38:59 - 1:39:03] ▶
In 1992, McDonald met with two Northrop and two Lockheed engineers who were fed up with
[1:39:03 - 1:39:08] ▶
the secrecy and classification of their work who kind of dictated the drawing of a triangular
[1:39:08 - 1:39:14] ▶
ARV called the XF-131 Super Sentinel that operated off of like RCS radar cross-section facilities
[1:39:14 - 1:39:21] ▶
in the Mojave Desert.
[1:39:21 - 1:39:23] ▶
And I've talked to McDonald about this and he maintains the secrecy of these engineers
[1:39:23 - 1:39:27] ▶
to this day because I said can I talk to these people.
[1:39:27 - 1:39:30] ▶
But that design actually was featured in the first ever episode of the X-Files because
[1:39:30 - 1:39:36] ▶
I can't Chris or subcursor.
[1:39:36 - 1:39:37] ▶
Contracted Bill McDonald to put that in the.
[1:39:40 - 1:39:41] ▶
Chris Car is a creator of the X-Files.
[1:39:41 - 1:39:43] ▶
Bill McDonald was contracted to put that in the first ever episode of the X-Files which
[1:39:44 - 1:39:48] ▶
was allegedly based on true stories from John DeSousa and that episode is about a triangular
[1:39:48 - 1:39:52] ▶
Triangular alien reproduction vehicle that's seen over an Air Force base.
[1:39:54 - 1:39:57] ▶
It's the same design.
[1:39:57 - 1:39:58] ▶
I've put some features and clips of that.
[1:39:58 - 1:40:00] ▶
That's so interesting.
[1:40:00 - 1:40:01] ▶
I think Hollywood has been engaging in soft UFO disclosure for 30 or 40 years.
[1:40:01 - 1:40:06] ▶
We see the CAA liaison.
[1:40:06 - 1:40:08] ▶
We Spielberg's new movie, Disclosure.
[1:40:08 - 1:40:10] ▶
It's called now called Disclosure.
[1:40:10 - 1:40:13] ▶
I was talking to Chris Ramsey again.
[1:40:13 - 1:40:15] ▶
Great YouTube channel.
[1:40:15 - 1:40:16] ▶
He was like, what if a UFO is shown as part of that movie?
[1:40:18 - 1:40:20] ▶
Would that not be the best way to disclose?
[1:40:20 - 1:40:22] ▶
And then historically too, you've had close accounts of the third kind which involves
[1:40:27 - 1:40:33] ▶
Jacques Vallet and Jalen Heineck.
[1:40:33 - 1:40:35] ▶
Jacques Vallet played as a character by Prince Watcher Foe.
[1:40:35 - 1:40:38] ▶
You see crates that say Lockheed in Northrop.
[1:40:38 - 1:40:40] ▶
Don't they say it's a song work to TRW?
[1:40:40 - 1:40:42] ▶
If they say that, then you're like, okay, they're talking about next level knowledge.
[1:40:43 - 1:40:47] ▶
Then they really know.
[1:40:47 - 1:40:48] ▶
Because TRW was bought by Northrop in 2002.
[1:40:48 - 1:40:51] ▶
And TRW was the contractor behind the Zodiac story, which was an alleged crash.
[1:40:52 - 1:40:55] ▶
So I think they do say skunk works.
[1:40:55 - 1:40:57] ▶
Because close accounts of 30 times was, was they do?
[1:40:57 - 1:41:01] ▶
Interesting fact about TRW.
[1:41:03 - 1:41:04] ▶
Jacques Vallet has talked about Dr. Eric A. Walker.
[1:41:04 - 1:41:06] ▶
We talked about earlier, being on the board of directors or a chairman of TRW as well.
[1:41:06 - 1:41:10] ▶
So, yeah, I mean Spielberg was dialed in with you have to go deep to talk about skunk
[1:41:12 - 1:41:17] ▶
works in TRW in the film.
[1:41:17 - 1:41:20] ▶
Well, let's look up, you know, at some point, whether it's Lockheed in Northrop works.
[1:41:21 - 1:41:24] ▶
Well, that's next level.
[1:41:26 - 1:41:27] ▶
Then yeah, he knows a lot of not.
[1:41:27 - 1:41:28] ▶
Also on the towns and brown who I am sure discovered some interesting effects in the
[1:41:28 - 1:41:32] ▶
I feel very high conviction in that.
[1:41:35 - 1:41:37] ▶
And I just interviewed Carl Nell, who's the deputy CTO of Northrop Grumman, where I'm
[1:41:37 - 1:41:41] ▶
saying again, that this gravity technology got probably implemented in the B2 stealth
[1:41:41 - 1:41:47] ▶
And he's the WCTO of Northrop Grumman and he goes, go watch Jesse's video on Thomas
[1:41:48 - 1:41:52] ▶
When I ask him, are there, is there anything sort of useful or applicable in the UFO story?
[1:41:53 - 1:41:57] ▶
Jesse's done a number of podcasts looking into Taylor Townsend Brown and some other
[1:41:57 - 1:42:01] ▶
very interesting, like, heretical technologies.
[1:42:01 - 1:42:05] ▶
So I'd invite people, an unsolicited plug to check out some of Jesse's podcasts.
[1:42:05 - 1:42:11] ▶
So there's more corroboration beyond that on the TT Brown stuff.
[1:42:11 - 1:42:17] ▶
But where was I going with?
[1:42:17 - 1:42:19] ▶
What were you just saying?
[1:42:19 - 1:42:20] ▶
The TRW, closer cutters of the third kind before that.
[1:42:20 - 1:42:23] ▶
So Steven Spielberg executive produced back to the future.
[1:42:24 - 1:42:29] ▶
And the subplot of the whole Thomas Townsend Brown story is that gravity affects time.
[1:42:29 - 1:42:35] ▶
In general relativity, gravity and time are tightly coupled and they're related.
[1:42:35 - 1:42:39] ▶
And he talks about time travel constantly with his family.
[1:42:39 - 1:42:43] ▶
Like that's something that's really, and if you think about it, if we were to ever engage
[1:42:43 - 1:42:46] ▶
an effective interstellar travel, it would involve space time metric engineering inherently.
[1:42:46 - 1:42:51] ▶
You can't get around that.
[1:42:51 - 1:42:52] ▶
Even with nuclear thermal propulsion, you get to the closest star system in 40,000 years.
[1:42:52 - 1:42:56] ▶
That's two biologically, that does not work, right?
[1:42:56 - 1:42:59] ▶
So he's super into time travel and then you have back to the future come out, which is
[1:42:59 - 1:43:04] ▶
Steven Spielberg executive produced movie.
[1:43:04 - 1:43:06] ▶
The guy's name is Doc Brown, which everybody called Thomas Townsend Brown.
[1:43:06 - 1:43:10] ▶
His name is Emmett Brown, E-M-E-T-T Brown.
[1:43:10 - 1:43:13] ▶
Thomas Townsend Brown is in the name.
[1:43:13 - 1:43:15] ▶
He uses his flux capacitor.
[1:43:15 - 1:43:17] ▶
Thomas Townsend Brown's experiments are capacitor experiments.
[1:43:17 - 1:43:21] ▶
And he goes back in time in 1985, which is the year Thomas Townsend Brown dies to 1957,
[1:43:21 - 1:43:28] ▶
which is one, I think his experiment was first experimentally proven around that time.
[1:43:28 - 1:43:33] ▶
At the Bonson Labs, the time that physics went astray in the wrong direction when I
[1:43:33 - 1:43:37] ▶
think the anti-gravity stuff went black.
[1:43:37 - 1:43:40] ▶
And so it's just, I don't know, there's so much there that I think gets this greater.
[1:43:40 - 1:43:45] ▶
And then E-T, even as extremely interesting.
[1:43:45 - 1:43:48] ▶
E-T and the kid lock it, they have some sort of weird psionic connection and you remember
[1:43:48 - 1:43:53] ▶
they're in the hospital together.
[1:43:53 - 1:43:55] ▶
And E-T's heart rate is matching the kid's heart rate.
[1:43:55 - 1:43:59] ▶
And you have all this stuff around the psionic connection that's now coming out.
[1:43:59 - 1:44:02] ▶
You also have the consciousness connection there where the mother is walking around the
[1:44:02 - 1:44:07] ▶
kitchen and these kids see the E-T's, but the mother doesn't.
[1:44:07 - 1:44:11] ▶
And the E-T is sort of like walking around the fridge and the mother doesn't see it because
[1:44:11 - 1:44:15] ▶
like her perceptive, she's closed off to these realities.
[1:44:15 - 1:44:20] ▶
So I think it seems Spielberg definitely has been fed some really interesting UFO stuff
[1:44:20 - 1:44:26] ▶
And was it Spielberg or Cameron that created the film The Abyss?
[1:44:27 - 1:44:31] ▶
That was James Cameron.
[1:44:31 - 1:44:32] ▶
Because that's also an interesting one about US.
[1:44:32 - 1:44:34] ▶
It's interesting to see these concepts relate in Hollywood.
[1:44:35 - 1:44:38] ▶
Because on one of those cameras, Steven Spielberg and Christopher Nolan are definitely
[1:44:38 - 1:44:42] ▶
fed intense secret shit.
[1:44:42 - 1:44:44] ▶
Yeah, they have to be.
[1:44:44 - 1:44:46] ▶
Because on one hand you have films like Independence Day, which is just a bombastic action film
[1:44:46 - 1:44:51] ▶
But then on the other hand, you have very thoughtful projects like Close Encounters
[1:44:52 - 1:44:55] ▶
of the Third Kind and to an extent E-T and as we know now.
[1:44:55 - 1:44:59] ▶
But even like not so even like where does the concept of men in black, men in black sounds
[1:44:59 - 1:45:04] ▶
But like if you go talk to Richard Dolan, he's a super deep UFO researcher.
[1:45:06 - 1:45:10] ▶
Men in black are the, they are this thing.
[1:45:10 - 1:45:12] ▶
They're in these suits and they show up after UFO abduction experiences, UFO sightings.
[1:45:12 - 1:45:18] ▶
And they often take people's footage or like, you know, swear them to secrecy.
[1:45:18 - 1:45:22] ▶
And he thinks Dolan thinks they're almost like the counter-intel group of the aliens themselves.
[1:45:22 - 1:45:28] ▶
They always erase your memory.
[1:45:28 - 1:45:29] ▶
And so it's turned into this like kind of joky funny movie with Will Smith.
[1:45:29 - 1:45:33] ▶
But like even that, like where is that derived to begin with?
[1:45:33 - 1:45:36] ▶
And I honestly, it's just so fascinating, you know?
[1:45:37 - 1:45:40] ▶
That's interesting that, because I've heard that idea floated around before that the
[1:45:40 - 1:45:44] ▶
like colloquial men in black are almost like a non-human entity.
[1:45:44 - 1:45:47] ▶
Because I almost, I'd like to hear more about that because I almost stay on the other
[1:45:47 - 1:45:50] ▶
I straight up think that the men in black in a sense are NSA spooks.
[1:45:51 - 1:45:56] ▶
So I would say the same thing, but like, you meet with certain people like Whitley Streiber
[1:45:56 - 1:46:00] ▶
and other just experiencers.
[1:46:00 - 1:46:03] ▶
And like these guys seem to like have technology available to them.
[1:46:03 - 1:46:09] ▶
That's not available to the general public.
[1:46:09 - 1:46:11] ▶
And maybe that is just like, okay, so it's like Occam's razor, it's like NSA or something.
[1:46:11 - 1:46:16] ▶
But it's weird technology.
[1:46:16 - 1:46:18] ▶
It's like implants that involve technological mediumship as Whitley Streiber.
[1:46:18 - 1:46:23] ▶
I felt his implant in his ear.
[1:46:23 - 1:46:25] ▶
And it's the weirdest thing I'm worried.
[1:46:26 - 1:46:28] ▶
And he says it moves with his own metabolism.
[1:46:28 - 1:46:30] ▶
I haven't verified that.
[1:46:30 - 1:46:31] ▶
But like, he ever thought about getting that cut out?
[1:46:31 - 1:46:33] ▶
He wants to get it cut out, but he says it moves every time.
[1:46:33 - 1:46:35] ▶
And I felt the thing and it's not natural.
[1:46:35 - 1:46:37] ▶
So unless he's totally grifting and putting the thing in his ear, even though he's not
[1:46:37 - 1:46:42] ▶
really like making that much money now off of UFOs and it happened after we wrote communion
[1:46:42 - 1:46:46] ▶
and like, it's like, I don't know, man, the whole thing so strange.
[1:46:46 - 1:46:50] ▶
That is interesting.
[1:46:50 - 1:46:51] ▶
You know, perhaps the two are not mutually exclusive.
[1:46:51 - 1:46:54] ▶
Because there's also stories like if you heard of of treat.
[1:46:54 - 1:46:58] ▶
It's the supposed men in black unit out of the NSA called the Tactical Reconnaissance
[1:46:58 - 1:47:03] ▶
Engineering Assessment Search Team, which was created by Stubblebine.
[1:47:03 - 1:47:07] ▶
And it's only ever been talked about by Fouche and Hans Adams, the Crown Prince of
[1:47:07 - 1:47:12] ▶
So that's come up for me and I've never brought that up.
[1:47:13 - 1:47:16] ▶
But how do you think that the Crown Prince of Lichtenstein?
[1:47:17 - 1:47:20] ▶
Because I've heard some very interesting things about him.
[1:47:20 - 1:47:23] ▶
And he seems like a really cool guy, but like really interesting, the spooky science
[1:47:23 - 1:47:26] ▶
I've only ever seen his discussions with like Greer and the emails on the DPI archive
[1:47:27 - 1:47:32] ▶
and looked up a few things about him and him mentioning treat.
[1:47:32 - 1:47:36] ▶
Besides that, I have no idea because I would see that.
[1:47:36 - 1:47:38] ▶
And I said, Crown Prince of Lichtenstein, a small central European company.
[1:47:38 - 1:47:43] ▶
What have you found out about him?
[1:47:43 - 1:47:44] ▶
Because that's pretty good.
[1:47:44 - 1:47:45] ▶
I probably shouldn't say because the conversations I've had are in confidence.
[1:47:46 - 1:47:53] ▶
But he seems very interesting and interested in sort of secret science.
[1:47:53 - 1:47:56] ▶
One more piece of possible corroboration of maybe being a combo as far as the men in
[1:47:56 - 1:48:01] ▶
black is I did speak to how put off recently.
[1:48:01 - 1:48:06] ▶
And I was trying to figure out how is it there, is it there program?
[1:48:06 - 1:48:09] ▶
You know, is it the NHI program or is it our program?
[1:48:09 - 1:48:11] ▶
And he goes, what if it's a joint space program?
[1:48:11 - 1:48:13] ▶
He goes, I might believe that.
[1:48:13 - 1:48:15] ▶
Maybe there's something in what we're worried.
[1:48:15 - 1:48:17] ▶
He did, yeah, to make cheese.
[1:48:17 - 1:48:19] ▶
What I put off is I think as deep as it gets when it comes to sort of outside the Overton
[1:48:20 - 1:48:25] ▶
Window science, which is now being vindicated.
[1:48:25 - 1:48:27] ▶
I mean, he was just on a podcast in December, which was co-sponsored by National Science
[1:48:27 - 1:48:32] ▶
And like you had like pretty high up DOE people on the podcast and all these amazing people
[1:48:34 - 1:48:38] ▶
with all pretty impressive credentials.
[1:48:38 - 1:48:40] ▶
The former head of revolutionary tech at Sguncworks are all in this podcast.
[1:48:40 - 1:48:44] ▶
And he's talking about extended electrodynamics and gravity manipulation.
[1:48:44 - 1:48:48] ▶
I think it's clearly this sort of limited hangout where it's like, let's partially expose
[1:48:49 - 1:48:53] ▶
some things so that people can learn a little bit more about some science that we've been
[1:48:53 - 1:48:59] ▶
sitting on, especially again, if China has caught up, you can't just throw people off the
[1:48:59 - 1:49:04] ▶
You need some limited surface area around it.
[1:49:05 - 1:49:07] ▶
But yeah, how put off did say, and you know, it's always, I love how, but it's always
[1:49:07 - 1:49:11] ▶
this sort of like tongue and cheek like half speculating.
[1:49:11 - 1:49:14] ▶
Yeah, he never commits to something.
[1:49:14 - 1:49:17] ▶
He never commits to something.
[1:49:17 - 1:49:18] ▶
He always goes the whole zoo of possibilities.
[1:49:18 - 1:49:19] ▶
And I was like, A, B, C, and D, and then you have to decide.
[1:49:20 - 1:49:22] ▶
I sometimes I wonder about Howell and how much he'll commit to subjects because under his
[1:49:23 - 1:49:28] ▶
tutelage and good friend, of course, is Eric Davis.
[1:49:28 - 1:49:31] ▶
And recently, like as you know, Missile Man, myself and others talking to Eric Davis.
[1:49:31 - 1:49:35] ▶
You did a great interview with Eric Davis.
[1:49:35 - 1:49:38] ▶
He said a lot of interesting things, but he also said a couple things I disagree with.
[1:49:38 - 1:49:41] ▶
One, he said that the only FFRDC he knew was the aerospace corporation, which I disagree
[1:49:41 - 1:49:46] ▶
with, but I think that's because he was only read into a sub selection of legacy programs
[1:49:46 - 1:49:50] ▶
But he also said that alien reproduction vehicles don't exist.
[1:49:51 - 1:49:54] ▶
Do you think there's aircraft systems that have kind of leveraged technologies off?
[1:49:54 - 1:49:57] ▶
Oh, definitely no aircraft.
[1:49:57 - 1:49:58] ▶
I don't like levers or anything.
[1:49:59 - 1:50:00] ▶
And there's been no one to one reproduction.
[1:50:00 - 1:50:03] ▶
A lot of that fell into the psyche of the UFO community because the Bob Lazar and then
[1:50:03 - 1:50:10] ▶
Brad serenzyn in my Mark McHallis.
[1:50:10 - 1:50:13] ▶
So I don't know where they're coming from and then other people kind of came out and
[1:50:13 - 1:50:18] ▶
would work saying the same thing, but no proof.
[1:50:18 - 1:50:21] ▶
And I'm only left with two possibilities when I think about that.
[1:50:22 - 1:50:24] ▶
One is that he's lying.
[1:50:24 - 1:50:25] ▶
Two is that he was only read into a select subsection of programs that only overlapped
[1:50:25 - 1:50:30] ▶
Lockhe trying to get rid of Kingman materials and thus he would not know about ARV because
[1:50:30 - 1:50:35] ▶
those weren't part of the program.
[1:50:35 - 1:50:37] ▶
And I kind of lean towards towards that explanation because I really don't agree with that
[1:50:37 - 1:50:42] ▶
And at the end of the interview, I had a little notebook with the flux liner on it.
[1:50:43 - 1:50:48] ▶
And I said, you know, Dr. Davis, you really haven't even considered this testimony of Mark
[1:50:48 - 1:50:53] ▶
McHallis and the flux liner.
[1:50:53 - 1:50:55] ▶
And he said, but right before we cut off, well, how put off the interview, Brad sorenson.
[1:50:55 - 1:51:00] ▶
And we never got to talk about that more.
[1:51:00 - 1:51:02] ▶
And to this day, I want to ask him so badly about how that went because how has spoken
[1:51:02 - 1:51:07] ▶
And I just need to know how that goes.
[1:51:09 - 1:51:10] ▶
I wish how it could speak a little bit more candidly in an open setting because he's
[1:51:10 - 1:51:13] ▶
also super KG in the program with James Fox.
[1:51:13 - 1:51:16] ▶
And he's also kind of integral to the story of Zodiac, the alleged crash retrieval program
[1:51:16 - 1:51:21] ▶
first introduced in UFO magazine in 1898.
[1:51:21 - 1:51:24] ▶
God, that's a really interesting one.
[1:51:25 - 1:51:27] ▶
So in 1998, UFO magazine published a story by a pseudonym Greg Halifax about sedge masters,
[1:51:27 - 1:51:36] ▶
a story about somebody who is brought into a UFO crash retrieval program called Zodiac.
[1:51:36 - 1:51:42] ▶
This occurred in 1988, 2001 or 2002.
[1:51:42 - 1:51:45] ▶
There's an email chain with how put off, Kit Green and Eric Davis talking about the
[1:51:45 - 1:51:50] ▶
Santillian Alien autopsy film and so forth and Kit Green saying he saw different pictures
[1:51:50 - 1:51:56] ▶
of an alien autopsy.
[1:51:56 - 1:51:57] ▶
But then in a later thread in that email, somebody, one of the three brings up Zodiac in the
[1:51:57 - 1:52:02] ▶
sedge master's story.
[1:52:02 - 1:52:04] ▶
And most of this work needs to be credited to of course, Richard Dolan, who actually
[1:52:04 - 1:52:10] ▶
tracked down the very likely author of the Zodiac story and puts a lot of faith that the
[1:52:10 - 1:52:15] ▶
Zodiac was indeed a crash retrieval program and it was operated by TRW.
[1:52:15 - 1:52:19] ▶
So that's just a fascinating story, how even it seems like everything kind of post 2000
[1:52:19 - 1:52:23] ▶
or post 1995, how Eric and Kit, what is the core story of Zodiac?
[1:52:23 - 1:52:28] ▶
Like what is it's essentially the majestic 12 by another name?
[1:52:28 - 1:52:32] ▶
Because the majestic 12 for people who don't know was introduced under the majestic 12
[1:52:32 - 1:52:38] ▶
documents first appeared in 1984 in a film canister to TV producer Jamie Shanderay and
[1:52:38 - 1:52:45] ▶
this included the Eisenhower briefing document and later the special operations manual and
[1:52:45 - 1:52:50] ▶
then a whole host of other documents.
[1:52:50 - 1:52:52] ▶
And this details the majestic 12 is supposed UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering
[1:52:52 - 1:52:55] ▶
group spearheaded by Van of our bush, including Dr. Ross, including Roscoe Hillencoder, Dr.
[1:52:55 - 1:53:02] ▶
Donald Menzel, I think his name is
[1:53:02 - 1:53:04] ▶
Von Neumann Jerome Hunsaker,
[1:53:07 - 1:53:09] ▶
big award, Van Van Van Berg,
[1:53:11 - 1:53:13] ▶
White Van Nberg, Nathan Twining,
[1:53:13 - 1:53:16] ▶
yeah, a bunch of head honchos and military intelligence science.
[1:53:16 - 1:53:19] ▶
And so, you know, majestic 12 Zodiac 12 signs.
[1:53:20 - 1:53:23] ▶
So some might suggest in the realm of UFO study that Zodiac is another name from
[1:53:24 - 1:53:28] ▶
majestic 12, just like majestic 12 has been called other names like the working group,
[1:53:28 - 1:53:32] ▶
the PI 40 by that guy A H. We talked about with Greer.
[1:53:32 - 1:53:35] ▶
So it's a super interesting story that I hope sees more, more coverage because Richard
[1:53:35 - 1:53:41] ▶
Dullin has been a true trailblazer in the Zodiac story and it's just kind of like the secret
[1:53:41 - 1:53:45] ▶
So to be quite plain after talking with Ryan Wood, I think the majestic 12 did exist in a
[1:53:47 - 1:53:52] ▶
capacity and probably still exists today.
[1:53:52 - 1:53:53] ▶
But I am hesitant to think about like a very ubiquitous crash retrieval team.
[1:53:53 - 1:53:57] ▶
I think that there's a very wide swath of retrieval teams and retrieval operations.
[1:53:57 - 1:54:02] ▶
Well, there are people who I think are pretty credible who talk about this,
[1:54:02 - 1:54:05] ▶
like these continuity of government programs.
[1:54:05 - 1:54:07] ▶
So the 5412 committee, you know, national security, you know, committee, you know, back in the
[1:54:08 - 1:54:14] ▶
50s and 60s, that turned into the 303 committee, which turned into the committee of 40.
[1:54:14 - 1:54:18] ▶
Do you have anything to say about that as far as they're kind of, you know, interesting?
[1:54:18 - 1:54:21] ▶
I know as that John B. Colonel John B. Alexander said that the majestic 12 was specifically a
[1:54:21 - 1:54:26] ▶
continuity of government program.
[1:54:26 - 1:54:28] ▶
But I hasten to adhere to what he says because he lied about this, but special operations manual.
[1:54:28 - 1:54:34] ▶
He lied about a bunch of stuff.
[1:54:34 - 1:54:35] ▶
And even in the Wilson memo, you know, the way they said that, you know, the Wilson, yeah, of course,
[1:54:36 - 1:54:40] ▶
you know, also, yeah.
[1:54:40 - 1:54:40] ▶
So this is was in 1997.
[1:54:41 - 1:54:44] ▶
1997 was when the career will Miller, Thomas Wilson, Stephen Lovekin meeting took place.
[1:54:44 - 1:54:50] ▶
The briefing took place.
[1:54:50 - 1:54:51] ▶
But one was, and then 2002, 2002 is this
[1:54:52 - 1:54:56] ▶
meeting between Eric Davis, who's again, this help put off protég, propulsions expert.
[1:54:56 - 1:55:00] ▶
And like exotic physics expert.
[1:55:01 - 1:55:02] ▶
It's in the parking lot of EG and G.
[1:55:02 - 1:55:05] ▶
And he's meeting with Admiral Tal, Thomas Wilson, who's had a joint chaff, joint chiefs, J2,
[1:55:05 - 1:55:11] ▶
you know, intelligence for JCS at the time.
[1:55:11 - 1:55:14] ▶
So he should have like all exotic tech under his purview.
[1:55:14 - 1:55:16] ▶
And he's extremely, he's basically expressing extreme dissatisfaction that you had these
[1:55:16 - 1:55:21] ▶
rogue groups working on purportedly UFOs who he met with.
[1:55:21 - 1:55:25] ▶
And it's out of his jurisdiction.
[1:55:26 - 1:55:28] ▶
And in that document that I believe was found in the Edgar Mitchell estate, in that document,
[1:55:28 - 1:55:34] ▶
it says J.A. is a liar.
[1:55:35 - 1:55:36] ▶
And I think J.A. is John Alexander.
[1:55:36 - 1:55:38] ▶
Cause John Alexander has been publicly said, oh, majestic 12 exists and had nothing to do with
[1:55:40 - 1:55:44] ▶
UFOs and kind of all of that before.
[1:55:44 - 1:55:48] ▶
And of course, he kind of said myths truths about what Dr. Ryan Wood said about the special
[1:55:48 - 1:55:53] ▶
operations of manual Ryan Wood and Robert Wood did a ton of provenance research on the
[1:55:53 - 1:55:58] ▶
majestic documents, getting the physical onion skin documents, putting them through rigorous
[1:55:58 - 1:56:03] ▶
testing of materials.
[1:56:03 - 1:56:04] ▶
So what do you think about these documents?
[1:56:04 - 1:56:05] ▶
Cause they're the popular view, like whether those kind of old school like UFO researchers,
[1:56:05 - 1:56:12] ▶
like Robert Hastings, you know, who wrote UFOs and nukes, is that these were, this was
[1:56:12 - 1:56:17] ▶
So it was like meant to detect spies that contained all sorts of falsities.
[1:56:18 - 1:56:22] ▶
You're giving it to this film producers, friends with all these UFO researchers, Jamie
[1:56:22 - 1:56:25] ▶
Chandera, and then I think other versions of the majestic 12 were then doled out in packages
[1:56:25 - 1:56:30] ▶
to other UFO researchers.
[1:56:30 - 1:56:32] ▶
Cause there's a whole host of documents and the, the, the source cannot be all from the
[1:56:32 - 1:56:38] ▶
And a bunch of varying quality documents.
[1:56:39 - 1:56:42] ▶
I tend to adhere to the work of Stanton Friedman, who's been a bunch of time authenticating
[1:56:42 - 1:56:47] ▶
these special operations manual and Eisenhower briefing document with the woods.
[1:56:47 - 1:56:51] ▶
I think those two probably have the strongest claims of, of real documents, as well as
[1:56:51 - 1:56:56] ▶
the two IPU interplanetary phenomenon unit reports.
[1:56:56 - 1:56:59] ▶
One of them is a seven page report that sounds very similar to the Eisenhower briefing document
[1:56:59 - 1:57:03] ▶
and talks about the Roswell crash retrieval and so forth.
[1:57:03 - 1:57:06] ▶
Later on down the line, you get a lot of other documents like the burned memo and the project
[1:57:06 - 1:57:10] ▶
aquarius document from Lee Graham, the burned memo or the project aquarius, one of them,
[1:57:10 - 1:57:16] ▶
I can't remember which actually makes reference to project zodiac by the way.
[1:57:16 - 1:57:19] ▶
And like project Jehovah and MK Ultra.
[1:57:19 - 1:57:22] ▶
But a lot of the earlier documents like the Eisenhower briefing document, a lot of the
[1:57:22 - 1:57:27] ▶
dates and specific discussions line up with real events.
[1:57:27 - 1:57:32] ▶
For example, James Forrestall meeting with Truman, dates are mentioned when those two
[1:57:32 - 1:57:36] ▶
met and kind of discuss the future or the inception of Majestic 12 and so forth.
[1:57:36 - 1:57:40] ▶
Have you look in the library of Truman, library, library of Eisenhower when he's supposedly
[1:57:40 - 1:57:44] ▶
These presidents and presidents and comets.
[1:57:45 - 1:57:46] ▶
Recently, it came out and it showed a meeting with him and Eisenhower or something and that
[1:57:47 - 1:57:51] ▶
was like a real meeting.
[1:57:51 - 1:57:54] ▶
His diary came out after the Majestic 12 documents, obviously, it come out and they corroborated
[1:57:54 - 1:57:58] ▶
the information in the Majestic 12 documents.
[1:57:58 - 1:58:00] ▶
So it's probably similar to the Lazar stuff where it's like some of the stuff is just true.
[1:58:00 - 1:58:04] ▶
And then maybe true and under a different name and maybe they were looking for spies and
[1:58:04 - 1:58:08] ▶
there was some passage material involved, but yeah, it is interesting.
[1:58:08 - 1:58:12] ▶
And then there were other documents like the color twining memo that are really difficult
[1:58:12 - 1:58:15] ▶
to dispute and so forth.
[1:58:15 - 1:58:17] ▶
I was actually reading on the plane over here different validation of Majestic documents
[1:58:17 - 1:58:21] ▶
and there's just been like a lot of mentions of Majestic documents before.
[1:58:21 - 1:58:26] ▶
Even including I can't remember the general's name, but a four star general who was asked
[1:58:26 - 1:58:30] ▶
about the documents, he said they're real like, or the Majestic 12 is real.
[1:58:30 - 1:58:32] ▶
I can't tell you any more than that because I know that the Majestic 12 to many sort of
[1:58:32 - 1:58:37] ▶
hobbyists in this subject is nothing more than kind of conspiracy material, right?
[1:58:37 - 1:58:41] ▶
They just think Majestic 12 may, you know, not true.
[1:58:41 - 1:58:44] ▶
If you were to simulate back then, if a UFO issue were a thing and we had exotic materials
[1:58:45 - 1:58:54] ▶
and we were in contact with an extraterrestrial or interdimensional intelligence, you would
[1:58:54 - 1:59:00] ▶
need our best and brightest on it.
[1:59:00 - 1:59:01] ▶
And if you look at that list of people, those would be the people on it.
[1:59:01 - 1:59:06] ▶
Van of our bush would be heading it up.
[1:59:07 - 1:59:09] ▶
And then of course, Van of our bushes completely unconnected with Robert Sarbacher and Dr.
[1:59:09 - 1:59:13] ▶
Eric A. Walker as also mentioned that's the head of UFO.
[1:59:13 - 1:59:15] ▶
And those guys, that's right.
[1:59:15 - 1:59:17] ▶
And then you have Gordon Gray, who was also in the Jessica, Don Menzel, who admitted, you
[1:59:17 - 1:59:21] ▶
know, he was super red in on a Navy CIA, a bunch of, you know, pretty classified info and
[1:59:21 - 1:59:29] ▶
admitted as much actually to Kennedy and St. Friedman actually writes about this was sort
[1:59:29 - 1:59:35] ▶
of in charge of disinfo and debunking, which he was debunking a lot of you.
[1:59:35 - 1:59:39] ▶
And there's this amazing Swedish astronomer, Beatrice B. O. Reale.
[1:59:39 - 1:59:43] ▶
And she talked about Menzel having like deleted like all this astronomical information from
[1:59:43 - 1:59:48] ▶
like 1953 and onwards in, from the Harvard Observatory.
[1:59:48 - 1:59:54] ▶
And at the Harvard under C Observatory at the time, you had Robert Sarbacher.
[1:59:54 - 1:59:57] ▶
He was working there and then the number, I think James Connett was the president of Harvard
[1:59:57 - 2:00:01] ▶
and he was like the number two guy, you know, the Manhattan project at the time.
[2:00:01 - 2:00:07] ▶
So yeah, I don't know, it's hard to say, but it sort of makes sense.
[2:00:07 - 2:00:11] ▶
It's directionally correct.
[2:00:11 - 2:00:12] ▶
And, you know, it's not unreasonable to think that the group evolved over time, change
[2:00:13 - 2:00:17] ▶
I mean, you have in 1987 or 86 or 87 when Eric Walker is asked by Steinman about the
[2:00:18 - 2:00:25] ▶
Majestic 12 and he gives the Don Quixote impersonation you chasing after windmills.
[2:00:25 - 2:00:30] ▶
It's impossible to chase after the Majestic 12.
[2:00:30 - 2:00:32] ▶
The Majestic documents were first delivered to Shanderay and Friedman and so forth in 1984.
[2:00:32 - 2:00:37] ▶
That's when the first documents were actually kind of received, but weren't given to like
[2:00:37 - 2:00:42] ▶
a Mufon symposium until 87.
[2:00:42 - 2:00:44] ▶
What's interesting is the documents were kind of mailed out in 84 and then if we look at
[2:00:44 - 2:00:48] ▶
the manuscript of course, so it kind of seems like around 86, the Majestic 12 took on
[2:00:48 - 2:00:52] ▶
a new name, the UFO working group and got new blood like Albert Stubbelbine and some NSA
[2:00:52 - 2:00:58] ▶
people and some CIA people.
[2:00:58 - 2:01:00] ▶
Do it's interesting to think how this group may have evolved over time and possibly it
[2:01:00 - 2:01:04] ▶
changed its name to the working group because it was aware of the leaks at the time.
[2:01:04 - 2:01:08] ▶
The whole history is fascinating.
[2:01:08 - 2:01:09] ▶
I think maybe, you know, one of the tip of the spear frontier longitudinal timeline assessments
[2:01:09 - 2:01:17] ▶
of like, you know, all UFO oversight is this great article by Chris Sharp at the Liberation
[2:01:17 - 2:01:22] ▶
It's really interesting stuff and there's some connections you've made between Woods Hole
[2:01:24 - 2:01:28] ▶
and like, you know, some of the, you know, yeah.
[2:01:28 - 2:01:30] ▶
I crane exactly and Randi Anderson's story, but I also just want to touch on, you know,
[2:01:30 - 2:01:35] ▶
he talks about how it was the oss the office of strategic services, which is before the
[2:01:35 - 2:01:40] ▶
National Security Act before this yia, you know, was formed.
[2:01:40 - 2:01:44] ▶
They were sort of in charge of like the initial UFO, you know, custody and I think we
[2:01:44 - 2:01:50] ▶
have a decent map of actually what occurred.
[2:01:50 - 2:01:52] ▶
So David Grush says that there's this magenta crash in Longbarte and Italy in 1933 exactly.
[2:01:52 - 2:01:59] ▶
I've now made the connection through some people, this woman, Pipa Malmgren, who's
[2:01:59 - 2:02:03] ▶
She's really interested in the UFO thing, but she was actually special assistant to George
[2:02:04 - 2:02:09] ▶
She made it clear to me that James Jesus Angleton was the USS person involved in Italy at
[2:02:11 - 2:02:19] ▶
And so rumors are that you have this magenta crash and then Mussolini goes to Hitler and
[2:02:21 - 2:02:27] ▶
says, is this yours to the Nazis?
[2:02:27 - 2:02:30] ▶
And then they end up working together on it.
[2:02:30 - 2:02:32] ▶
And so this magenta crash ends up probably being worked on by the Nazis, which explains
[2:02:32 - 2:02:36] ▶
these like decalaca rumors and colller stub and sort of modern Czechoslovakia and Poland
[2:02:36 - 2:02:43] ▶
where they're working on these flying saucers.
[2:02:43 - 2:02:45] ▶
You have tons of reports around this from Rudolph Schreiber, Richard Mita, a bunch of guys
[2:02:45 - 2:02:49] ▶
at the time, along with Paul Mellon and Alan Dulles.
[2:02:49 - 2:02:54] ▶
There's a story of Paul Mellon spilling the beans to his grandson who's alive now, John
[2:02:54 - 2:02:58] ▶
Warner IV about standing over a UFO that can employ exotic flight principles in modern
[2:02:58 - 2:03:07] ▶
And so you can kind of come up with this thread of like the long-barty magenta crash happens.
[2:03:09 - 2:03:15] ▶
It goes to the Nazis.
[2:03:15 - 2:03:17] ▶
Maybe there's some custody where the Vatican is involved as well.
[2:03:17 - 2:03:20] ▶
Heard that from Grush.
[2:03:20 - 2:03:21] ▶
Heard that from Grush.
[2:03:21 - 2:03:22] ▶
And then it goes over to the US and then it's worked on at Wright Airfield.
[2:03:22 - 2:03:28] ▶
And you have all these operation overcast paperclip Nazi scientists who then that's part of
[2:03:28 - 2:03:34] ▶
the rush to get the Nazi scientists is to get the ones who are like that, you know, this
[2:03:34 - 2:03:39] ▶
deep on like really exotic, you know, flight principles and UFO stuff.
[2:03:39 - 2:03:44] ▶
We now know Hans Kahnler himself who is in charge of the blackest of the black Vundervava
[2:03:44 - 2:03:48] ▶
programs for the Nazis made his way to the US.
[2:03:48 - 2:03:51] ▶
And so you kind of have this somewhat consistent narrative of like what happened with this
[2:03:51 - 2:03:58] ▶
early UFO crash and how the US started to get involved with this stuff and all the guys
[2:03:58 - 2:04:03] ▶
who were involved in the early Marshall Plan and tech transfer programs.
[2:04:03 - 2:04:07] ▶
Kissinger was an army counter intel guy who was doing tech retrieval at the time.
[2:04:07 - 2:04:13] ▶
And you have other examples, you know, you mentioned forest all, you know, was as well.
[2:04:13 - 2:04:17] ▶
And he was secretary of the Navy.
[2:04:17 - 2:04:19] ▶
So I had to himself out of the naval hospital in Bethesda.
[2:04:19 - 2:04:23] ▶
Mid-Sophie Clees poem.
[2:04:24 - 2:04:26] ▶
And the magenta case is so interesting because Mussolini thought it was a Nazi advanced
[2:04:27 - 2:04:31] ▶
craft or a British or American advanced craft when he had his own special investigation
[2:04:31 - 2:04:34] ▶
group, the RS-33, who was like really keen on the fact this wasn't human technology
[2:04:34 - 2:04:40] ▶
and then likely worked with the Nazis.
[2:04:40 - 2:04:43] ▶
And then Marconi's grandson might be like on the verge of saying something of this pinotty,
[2:04:44 - 2:04:50] ▶
this Italian UFO researcher who's like really on that trail.
[2:04:50 - 2:04:54] ▶
I'd love to hear more of a description because the only real description we have is from
[2:04:54 - 2:04:58] ▶
the RS-33 like a disk and then brush like a lenticular shape.
[2:04:58 - 2:05:02] ▶
And that begs the question when we brought over Operation Paperclip scientists, so Nazi
[2:05:02 - 2:05:06] ▶
scientists, if there's kind of a collaboration in crash retrieval groups today.
[2:05:06 - 2:05:11] ▶
Even in 2023, you had Canadian defense member, or parliament member Larry McGuire who wrote
[2:05:11 - 2:05:18] ▶
to the head of Canadian defense, wanting to bring the Canadian people up to speed on UFO
[2:05:18 - 2:05:23] ▶
programs because there was an active five-ice nation that was working together on material
[2:05:23 - 2:05:28] ▶
exploitation and so forth.
[2:05:28 - 2:05:29] ▶
Well, there's a scientific principle called the Kawanda effect and it involves stabilizing
[2:05:29 - 2:05:34] ▶
basically a saucer-like craft.
[2:05:34 - 2:05:36] ▶
And there's a pat, this guy's Henry Kawanda was this guy's Romanian scientist.
[2:05:36 - 2:05:40] ▶
He has a patent on this from 1936 and I think it points he was in Vichy France, but he
[2:05:40 - 2:05:45] ▶
basically was forced to work under the Nazis and then he was taken to Wright Patterson to
[2:05:45 - 2:05:50] ▶
work on Project Y, which was an extension of the Avrocar project, which is trying to
[2:05:50 - 2:05:54] ▶
get flying saucers to work.
[2:05:54 - 2:05:56] ▶
And then William Steinman connects this with Thomas Townsend Brown and his gravity experiments
[2:05:56 - 2:06:03] ▶
where they were coordinating with Thomas Townsend Brown and wanted to see if the gravity
[2:06:03 - 2:06:07] ▶
stuff worked so they could incorporate it into these saucers or whatever that.
[2:06:07 - 2:06:11] ▶
I wonder how much that collaboration takes place because in Russia's news nation interview
[2:06:11 - 2:06:15] ▶
he talks about a multi-decade cold war with our adversaries we can assume is Russia and
[2:06:15 - 2:06:20] ▶
I think back to Jonathan Wagantz encounter in 97 in Peru.
[2:06:21 - 2:06:26] ▶
Once he sees the UFO he's taken in by these guys in DOE's range jackets, he's flown
[2:06:26 - 2:06:29] ▶
to a place on a CH-47 interrogated for days.
[2:06:29 - 2:06:32] ▶
When he's brought to this location, this obscure military base, there's not only
[2:06:32 - 2:06:37] ▶
Americans there, but there's Chinese, there's Germans.
[2:06:37 - 2:06:41] ▶
And so who else is collaborating on these projects that there's a multi-decade cold war?
[2:06:41 - 2:06:46] ▶
Well that's the Lazar rumor as well, which is that like Russians were at Area 51, too,
[2:06:46 - 2:06:51] ▶
and there was sort of this co-space program.
[2:06:51 - 2:06:53] ▶
And that was always, there's, you know, salt, this is even public, this is open source.
[2:06:53 - 2:06:58] ▶
In the salt one negotiations, I think it's 1971 treaty, we're talking about coordinating
[2:06:58 - 2:07:03] ▶
with the Russians on the UFO question because we were worried that they'd mistake it
[2:07:03 - 2:07:08] ▶
for American and Exhibition.
[2:07:08 - 2:07:09] ▶
That's what Kennedy probably wanted to do as well.
[2:07:09 - 2:07:12] ▶
So maybe there is some sort of international space program around the UFO thing, I don't
[2:07:12 - 2:07:17] ▶
Yeah, and then we look at, you know, of course there's a lot of drama about this, but the
[2:07:18 - 2:07:22] ▶
Immaculate Constellation Report that talks about alien reproduction vehicles seen over
[2:07:22 - 2:07:26] ▶
Indo-Pakcom, which is obviously Chinese territory, like Equilateral Triangles with three
[2:07:26 - 2:07:30] ▶
lights seen over Chinese territory of adversarial ARV.
[2:07:30 - 2:07:34] ▶
So it's like clear, there's similar programs going on if we have similar triangles, what
[2:07:35 - 2:07:39] ▶
sort of collaboration is occurring.
[2:07:39 - 2:07:40] ▶
It feels hard for me to believe that like the surface level geopolitics that we see is
[2:07:40 - 2:07:46] ▶
Like I do think we are, you know, tensions are at an all time high with China, but it is
[2:07:48 - 2:07:52] ▶
I think in the Lazar account, it's like the Russians started to get kicked out as like
[2:07:53 - 2:07:56] ▶
the tensions rose around like the development of these ARVs and so it brings up at Harkens
[2:07:56 - 2:08:03] ▶
back to this Carl Nell quote, you know, Carl Nell, who was part of the UAP task force with
[2:08:03 - 2:08:08] ▶
David Grush was also deputy CTO of Northrop Grumman and I believe was stationed at Wright
[2:08:08 - 2:08:14] ▶
It was also Army Futures Command.
[2:08:15 - 2:08:17] ▶
Army Futures Command and he says there's this sub-Rosa secret conflict arms race going
[2:08:17 - 2:08:22] ▶
on between us and other countries that's been going on for decades.
[2:08:22 - 2:08:25] ▶
It's a bit of a feudalistic dominance.
[2:08:25 - 2:08:27] ▶
So that begs the question is the ultimate pursuit mastery of ARV because with ARV might
[2:08:27 - 2:08:32] ▶
not just be the vehicle, but it might be any sort of weapon or technology that can be
[2:08:32 - 2:08:36] ▶
exploited as weaponry.
[2:08:36 - 2:08:37] ▶
Remember what Randy said when he was taken to crane that the technology was considered
[2:08:37 - 2:08:41] ▶
weaponry due to an electronic discharge during retrieval?
[2:08:41 - 2:08:45] ▶
Well if you think about what the Manhattan project was, it was all about payload potency
[2:08:45 - 2:08:51] ▶
And it's like how can create a bigger bomb?
[2:08:52 - 2:08:54] ▶
And then at a certain point when you're at the Zarbom level or whatever you're at, you
[2:08:54 - 2:08:58] ▶
know, 80 megatons plus, it doesn't matter.
[2:08:58 - 2:09:01] ▶
That's too big for any target.
[2:09:01 - 2:09:03] ▶
You have tons of Zarbom's.
[2:09:03 - 2:09:04] ▶
It's like, you know, game over for the world.
[2:09:04 - 2:09:07] ▶
At that point it becomes the second Manhattan project becomes about payload delivery and
[2:09:07 - 2:09:11] ▶
it becomes like who can deliver this payload faster and stealthier?
[2:09:11 - 2:09:15] ▶
And you know, it was ICBMs and then it was stealth fighters and, you know, and so it's
[2:09:15 - 2:09:21] ▶
a scary world and I almost don't even love talking about UFOs in this context because
[2:09:21 - 2:09:25] ▶
I think it's the sacred ontological metaphysical thing which should really drive people.
[2:09:25 - 2:09:30] ▶
I'm talking about weapons.
[2:09:30 - 2:09:31] ▶
But I do think that that might be a reality driving some of this stuff.
[2:09:31 - 2:09:35] ▶
And I completely agree.
[2:09:36 - 2:09:37] ▶
I think back to the 1988 Norton show as well, when Brad saw the pulsar craft with the
[2:09:37 - 2:09:41] ▶
121 nuclear warheads, the guys were raven on about how this could destroy Russia in like
[2:09:41 - 2:09:46] ▶
Raven on about that.
[2:09:48 - 2:09:49] ▶
Then on the other side of the curtain, you have saucers that utilize zero point energy
[2:09:49 - 2:09:52] ▶
That could, you know, drop a nuclear payload in a quarter of a second or the zero point
[2:09:53 - 2:09:59] ▶
energy systems can be harnessed to create more devastating effects than even nuclear warheads.
[2:09:59 - 2:10:04] ▶
Given that, that this technology is probably a forcing function for extreme good or extreme
[2:10:04 - 2:10:10] ▶
evil, you know, can think about nuclear fusion.
[2:10:10 - 2:10:13] ▶
It could destroy the world or it could save the world.
[2:10:13 - 2:10:16] ▶
That's what Ed witnessed out of Edward said.
[2:10:17 - 2:10:19] ▶
Part of the reason he reached out to Greer is because your point energy systems were being
[2:10:19 - 2:10:22] ▶
harnessed and repressed.
[2:10:22 - 2:10:24] ▶
Do you believe, because that is part of this Stephen Greer narrative that the lost century
[2:10:24 - 2:10:28] ▶
I'm not convinced that I believe that we displayed some local effects around over unity, free
[2:10:28 - 2:10:36] ▶
energy, low energy, nuclear reaction, you know, whatever.
[2:10:36 - 2:10:40] ▶
But the idea that we have scalable free energy that we're hiding in, you know, black
[2:10:40 - 2:10:44] ▶
compartments feels hard for me to believe, but I'm open.
[2:10:44 - 2:10:47] ▶
I'm not sure because I don't understand the physics enough.
[2:10:48 - 2:10:50] ▶
There's always a world in which these energy systems could be powering deep underground
[2:10:51 - 2:10:54] ▶
military bases, then we just don't know about it.
[2:10:54 - 2:10:56] ▶
That it's already employed on the system at large, but my knowledge is, you know, we need
[2:10:56 - 2:11:01] ▶
to call it Missile Man and ask him his advice on this part because I just don't know enough.
[2:11:01 - 2:11:06] ▶
I can't say I'm a high conviction in any direction there.
[2:11:08 - 2:11:11] ▶
But how do you, like, what's the thrust, what's the motivation for your research?
[2:11:11 - 2:11:15] ▶
Is it just like truth seeking or how do you have a hope for how this sort of UFO thing
[2:11:15 - 2:11:19] ▶
Because it seems like we've crossed a rebacon of late as far as people's acceptance of
[2:11:20 - 2:11:24] ▶
Yeah, but not enough.
[2:11:25 - 2:11:27] ▶
I've just been interested in this subject all of my life and my goal really is just the
[2:11:27 - 2:11:32] ▶
work I would like to, in a responsible manner, help disclose a UAP legacy programs and
[2:11:32 - 2:11:41] ▶
bring a larger truth about what the craft are, what not just what they look like, but
[2:11:41 - 2:11:48] ▶
where they're from, what they do, why they're here, and how the programs that study and exploit
[2:11:48 - 2:11:54] ▶
these technologies have been constructed, because there's a lot of very dark things in
[2:11:54 - 2:11:58] ▶
that aspect, not only just the decades of secrecy, but also just the exploitation of possible
[2:11:58 - 2:12:04] ▶
sentient beings and technology that is not ours.
[2:12:04 - 2:12:08] ▶
And an exploitation of humans?
[2:12:08 - 2:12:10] ▶
Yeah, that's the contentious thing we talked about as well with Jake and Michael in that
[2:12:11 - 2:12:17] ▶
testimony with the psionics, because we have a historical testimony that these psionic
[2:12:17 - 2:12:23] ▶
assets used to summon craft are treated like crap, given drug cocktails and so forth
[2:12:23 - 2:12:31] ▶
to perform efficiently and that could result in danger or death.
[2:12:31 - 2:12:34] ▶
And we also have Jake and the psionics team saying they take quite a bit of pride in those
[2:12:34 - 2:12:38] ▶
There's a discrepancy there that there's people like being hurt or being given drugs
[2:12:39 - 2:12:44] ▶
forcibly, that's bad, that's very bad.
[2:12:44 - 2:12:47] ▶
Definitely bad, yeah, it's not cool.
[2:12:47 - 2:12:50] ▶
And then the idea too, I don't feel like I have probably the most concrete and good orientation
[2:12:50 - 2:12:56] ▶
towards this and it's something I struggle with because it's like, you cover some of this
[2:12:56 - 2:13:00] ▶
stuff and it just leads you into dark territory.
[2:13:00 - 2:13:03] ▶
And it leads you into the territory of like, yeah, I want people to know that this stuff
[2:13:03 - 2:13:07] ▶
is reality is more expanded than we realize.
[2:13:07 - 2:13:11] ▶
But the only way to do that is to uncover some pretty gnarly messed up truths around
[2:13:11 - 2:13:17] ▶
like how this stuff has become operationalized.
[2:13:17 - 2:13:19] ▶
And the government's orientation towards this is how can this confer a tactical advantage
[2:13:20 - 2:13:24] ▶
And I think the orientation should be, how can this be get more meaning for people and
[2:13:25 - 2:13:31] ▶
civil side infrastructure updates?
[2:13:31 - 2:13:33] ▶
And then great, if there are derivative technologies that allow us to protect the
[2:13:33 - 2:13:38] ▶
free world in a more effective way, of course, they should be funneled to like the right
[2:13:38 - 2:13:42] ▶
But it feels like the impetus, like the sole impetus is weaponization of this stuff.
[2:13:43 - 2:13:48] ▶
And I don't think that ends well.
[2:13:48 - 2:13:51] ▶
If there's an intelligence on the other side of it, which I think there is, I don't think
[2:13:51 - 2:13:54] ▶
that ends well for us.
[2:13:54 - 2:13:56] ▶
If that's, if that's continues to be our orientation towards this topic, we're dealing
[2:13:56 - 2:14:00] ▶
with forces way greater than us.
[2:14:00 - 2:14:02] ▶
And I don't think it's a coincidence that, you know, OSAP and a lot of these programs,
[2:14:02 - 2:14:08] ▶
the people come out and they're kind of haunted.
[2:14:08 - 2:14:10] ▶
They have these hitchhiker effects.
[2:14:10 - 2:14:12] ▶
I think it's sort of, you know, the two sort of mantras in UFO research world are like,
[2:14:12 - 2:14:18] ▶
seek and you shall find and fuck around and find out.
[2:14:18 - 2:14:21] ▶
Look into the, stare into the void and it's stare inside.
[2:14:21 - 2:14:23] ▶
And it's a mirror of what you feel.
[2:14:24 - 2:14:25] ▶
And people with the description of the sphere often when people, you know, are looked,
[2:14:25 - 2:14:30] ▶
you know, they're looking for this psionic connection between less participant and these
[2:14:30 - 2:14:34] ▶
They're often, what's inside of them gets excavated and mirrored in this technology.
[2:14:35 - 2:14:39] ▶
I mean, it's almost, it's also very poignant like looking at the testimony of, of course,
[2:14:39 - 2:14:44] ▶
He said that the purpose of giving this technology to US industry was a to bolster the US
[2:14:45 - 2:14:50] ▶
war machine and be benefit the American people if necessary.
[2:14:50 - 2:14:53] ▶
These, these technologies clearly have not been used to benefit the American people.
[2:14:53 - 2:14:58] ▶
And if they're used to create, you know, alien reproduction vehicles, which I believe
[2:14:58 - 2:15:01] ▶
they are in possibly service and unidentified space program or, you know, in near-earth orbit
[2:15:01 - 2:15:07] ▶
defense capabilities or payload deliver your human relocation as Michael saw with the
[2:15:07 - 2:15:14] ▶
large football field sized eight gone craft or operate underground and deep underground
[2:15:14 - 2:15:18] ▶
It's clear that that's a very disturbing reality in which we live because that's 80 years
[2:15:19 - 2:15:23] ▶
And I have had time to flourish and hide themselves and like layer on themselves.
[2:15:24 - 2:15:29] ▶
That's a very frightening world.
[2:15:29 - 2:15:31] ▶
It is a very frightening world.
[2:15:31 - 2:15:32] ▶
I just retweeted Scott Adams, you know, the, the Dilbert creator and he said, you know,
[2:15:32 - 2:15:39] ▶
wherever there is complexity there is fraud.
[2:15:39 - 2:15:41] ▶
And I just thought that was so applicable to the UFO question.
[2:15:41 - 2:15:43] ▶
There is an absurd amount of complexity to the point where disclosure is taken a quantum
[2:15:43 - 2:15:49] ▶
leap around this Jake Barber story and some of the other stories and like mainstream media
[2:15:49 - 2:15:53] ▶
could not give less of a shit.
[2:15:53 - 2:15:55] ▶
They don't understand.
[2:15:55 - 2:15:56] ▶
It was horrible timing around the inauguration like peak news, mania and then this, that's
[2:15:56 - 2:16:02] ▶
when you release this thing that's beyond the pale for most people and you're, you're
[2:16:02 - 2:16:06] ▶
peace-mealing in, psionics and all these other things.
[2:16:06 - 2:16:09] ▶
And that's, and I love Ross Coulter.
[2:16:09 - 2:16:12] ▶
I think he's an amazing investigative reporter and I think Jake is beyond reproach as well.
[2:16:12 - 2:16:17] ▶
So it's not a knock on either of them.
[2:16:17 - 2:16:19] ▶
It's a knock on the timing and maybe news nations editing team.
[2:16:19 - 2:16:23] ▶
Yeah, but it's like for the 45 minute special that had to be like on the editing.
[2:16:23 - 2:16:28] ▶
And then everybody started, it started to be vindicated when Ross did this amazing follow-up
[2:16:29 - 2:16:33] ▶
with Jake and Howard.
[2:16:33 - 2:16:34] ▶
And then with, of course, I thought one of the most underappreciated testimonies was
[2:16:36 - 2:16:39] ▶
Don Paul Bales as well.
[2:16:39 - 2:16:40] ▶
Which closely with Jake, he talked very poignantly on retrieval and implications of crash
[2:16:41 - 2:16:45] ▶
retrieval and so that started to kind of refocus the conversation with that, which, with Fred
[2:16:45 - 2:16:49] ▶
Baker with Dr. John Blitch.
[2:16:49 - 2:16:51] ▶
So you're right, mainstream media could not care less.
[2:16:52 - 2:16:54] ▶
It can't care less and it's wild to see realities just diverge so starkly where it's like
[2:16:54 - 2:17:01] ▶
UFO world is on, it's on another planet, literally.
[2:17:01 - 2:17:04] ▶
And then there's also a big pickup and social media categories of kind of discrediting
[2:17:04 - 2:17:08] ▶
all the stories coming out and whistleblower so forth.
[2:17:08 - 2:17:11] ▶
Like I've even noticed a larger concentration of revisiting and kind of discrediting
[2:17:11 - 2:17:14] ▶
grush as well, who I find beyond reproach probably more than anybody else.
[2:17:14 - 2:17:19] ▶
That guy is like motivated by the right stuff.
[2:17:20 - 2:17:23] ▶
He's pieced together so much.
[2:17:24 - 2:17:25] ▶
And he's been treated like shit.
[2:17:26 - 2:17:27] ▶
And I think I think his disclosure was done in the, his disclosures were done in the,
[2:17:27 - 2:17:31] ▶
in the greatest manner possible where if you have disclosures but can't necessarily provide
[2:17:31 - 2:17:36] ▶
first hand evidence, he provided so much actionable intelligence.
[2:17:36 - 2:17:40] ▶
Whether to pursue I rad contracts, IDIQ contracts, embedding of programs, history of
[2:17:41 - 2:17:46] ▶
programs, certain retrieval incidents, smalms from Air Force based incidents, he provided
[2:17:46 - 2:17:51] ▶
so much actionable intelligence.
[2:17:51 - 2:17:52] ▶
Hundreds of documents, I think maybe a thousand pages plus to the IC Inspector General Thomas
[2:17:52 - 2:17:58] ▶
Mineheim who's now out and they've not, they haven't done anything about it.
[2:17:58 - 2:18:02] ▶
And unless you can look at those documents and all we have is that Thomas Mineheim said
[2:18:03 - 2:18:07] ▶
it was urgent and credible.
[2:18:07 - 2:18:09] ▶
And nobody has debunked anything in those documents.
[2:18:09 - 2:18:12] ▶
So unless you can debunk stuff in that, in those documents, then you need to take action
[2:18:12 - 2:18:17] ▶
on what this guy is saying.
[2:18:17 - 2:18:18] ▶
The only knocks people have against Russia's, the Ken Clipstein hit piece or the fact his
[2:18:19 - 2:18:24] ▶
op-ed didn't come out.
[2:18:24 - 2:18:25] ▶
Where Ken Clipstein basically clippinstein, he admitted to Cigar and Crystal, Crystal
[2:18:25 - 2:18:34] ▶
and Cigar, the breaking points, you know guys, he admitted that like the DOD and IC like
[2:18:34 - 2:18:40] ▶
tipped him off on the story, basically.
[2:18:40 - 2:18:43] ▶
And then the USAID, we now know was funding the intercept.
[2:18:46 - 2:18:50] ▶
I don't know how much of that specifically made its way to Ken Clipinstein, but like,
[2:18:50 - 2:18:54] ▶
and the DOD has all these like secret sources from the USAID.
[2:18:54 - 2:18:57] ▶
So he's like a bad faith actor, I'm sorry.
[2:18:57 - 2:19:00] ▶
And I made a tweet to that effect and I got threatened, somebody threatened to sue me
[2:19:01 - 2:19:05] ▶
and I'm not going to say their name because I don't want to amplify them.
[2:19:05 - 2:19:07] ▶
They're really bad actors.
[2:19:07 - 2:19:10] ▶
And they've also questioned the service records of Randy Anderson and Jake Barber, which
[2:19:10 - 2:19:15] ▶
is just I think disgusting, to be honest.
[2:19:15 - 2:19:17] ▶
Like don't go after that, you know.
[2:19:17 - 2:19:19] ▶
There was a lot of talk about like the combat controller pipeline even though that Jake
[2:19:19 - 2:19:23] ▶
has said numerous times he was in the pipeline for combat controller but then was diverted
[2:19:23 - 2:19:27] ▶
These guys just, and we have one of them specifically has a clearance and it's like,
[2:19:28 - 2:19:32] ▶
I don't know what he's up to, I don't know if he's a bat.
[2:19:32 - 2:19:34] ▶
I don't know if he's actually acting like he wants to be a paid disinfo agent but he hasn't
[2:19:34 - 2:19:40] ▶
gotten the contract yet and he's actually just like this small time guy.
[2:19:40 - 2:19:43] ▶
I think part of this is as well, there's like some popularity to go against kind of the
[2:19:43 - 2:19:47] ▶
disclosure movement and there's like a couple of like prominent channels that really base
[2:19:47 - 2:19:53] ▶
their entire, and entire fame off of just debunking everything like almost pre debunking
[2:19:53 - 2:19:59] ▶
A teaser of Jake Barber would come out and they'd already be debunking stuff.
[2:20:01 - 2:20:05] ▶
And they wouldn't list, they don't listen to any of the details and their priors are entirely
[2:20:06 - 2:20:10] ▶
off because they take nothing seriously.
[2:20:10 - 2:20:12] ▶
So it's their Occam's razor is it's all mass hysteria, which if you look at the levels
[2:20:12 - 2:20:16] ▶
of government that are now saying that this is real, your Occam's rate, what's this,
[2:20:16 - 2:20:21] ▶
there's like a cabal controlling all these people.
[2:20:21 - 2:20:23] ▶
It's the greatest mass hysteria in the history of, it's the best sia up in the world by
[2:20:23 - 2:20:28] ▶
standard deviations if that's your claim, which is itself a fantastical null hypothesis.
[2:20:28 - 2:20:34] ▶
So these people are, they're, they suck honestly.
[2:20:34 - 2:20:37] ▶
The cabal stuff is nonsense because it's all talked about in the frame of a tip and
[2:20:37 - 2:20:40] ▶
a sap, which as we've talked about throughout this whole conversation, there's going back
[2:20:40 - 2:20:45] ▶
to Robert Sarbacher in 1950 and even before in 1933 with Mussolini.
[2:20:45 - 2:20:49] ▶
There are so many other players involved.
[2:20:49 - 2:20:51] ▶
There is not, there might be a lot of reoccurring players that we've also talked about as well
[2:20:51 - 2:20:56] ▶
in recent disclosures, but the circular reporting, it's crash retrieval universe engineering
[2:20:56 - 2:21:00] ▶
is not isolated to a small group of people.
[2:21:00 - 2:21:03] ▶
No, it's not at all.
[2:21:03 - 2:21:04] ▶
If anything, the, the intelligence community tactic to kind of repress the stuff has been
[2:21:04 - 2:21:09] ▶
So there's too much snake oil to sift through for the average person.
[2:21:11 - 2:21:14] ▶
I think it moved from secrecy under Blue Book in the 50s and 60s and then the 80s at some
[2:21:14 - 2:21:18] ▶
point around the majestic 12 stuff.
[2:21:18 - 2:21:20] ▶
This stuff started to get promoted, but with all sorts of quackery and you have Air Force
[2:21:20 - 2:21:24] ▶
Office of Special Investigations agent, another counter and tell people like Rick Doty being
[2:21:24 - 2:21:28] ▶
like, there are six alien being and like John Lear saying, you know, there's a, the
[2:21:28 - 2:21:32] ▶
old catcher on the moon.
[2:21:32 - 2:21:33] ▶
And that's starting to pop back up with some of Rick Doty's disciples, like the guy I think
[2:21:33 - 2:21:37] ▶
who's in prison, who tweets all the time, like, let me show you a photo of an extraterrestrial
[2:21:37 - 2:21:42] ▶
and it'll just be a random image.
[2:21:42 - 2:21:44] ▶
I don't know whether that's, that's starting to pop back up.
[2:21:45 - 2:21:47] ▶
So that it's just, yeah, I don't know.
[2:21:48 - 2:21:50] ▶
I'd love to, because I think earnest debate is always good.
[2:21:50 - 2:21:56] ▶
In Midwest, people say he's like a paid asset or whatever.
[2:21:56 - 2:22:00] ▶
You know, I enjoyed like having him on to debate Merrick and they were debated all the
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top UFO videos and I thought that was like fun and good.
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And he doesn't seem like, you know, he's like, I want more light shine shown on this.
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I think he could be a little more like earnestly open to some of this stuff, but like some
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of these other guys are just like bad vibes and like, it's total, it's all ad hominem
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and it's, it's, you know, they threaten law fair and stuff and it's whack.
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It's like, I hope you, I don't know.
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It's introspect a little bit if, if, you know, I mean, again, read between the lines and
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see if this applies to you because I don't want to mention anybody, but it's like, just
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think about like what you do.
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Like are you really on the right side of history?
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Well, it's also step back and study the subject a little more because even if you're not
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ready to make the jump into Crash of Travelles and reverse engineering yet, go back, look
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at the history of sign grudge, blue book, OSAP, go look at numerous sightings, mass sightings,
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just go, go through a long list of UFO sightings and projects in the 20th century.
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I mean, there's the, not the Condon committee, but the Condon report from the England project,
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Magnet project, second story, grudge, sign, blue book, all sorts of UFO programs around
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the world, numerous sightings, private corporations contracted to look at UFOs and batel.
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Well, go watch your channel to UAP Gear because it, it's a, like I said, it's literally a
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It's a cannon of like absurd amounts of information to the point where you can't just dismiss
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There's something going on.
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Even if that something is slightly adjacent to the consensus truth, we all think on
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Maybe the rest of the iceberg doesn't look like the tip of the iceberg.
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I don't think anybody on the pro UFO side is dogmatic about that.
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I think it's just, this stuff is worthy of investigation, which clearly it is.
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And if you're still just trying to figure out, or do UFOs exist, just go look at all the
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daying military reports of pilots and so forth, citing UFOs.
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Like the mountains from case, people dismiss that, but that's a great one to study.
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Minot Air Force Base, in which I think I see one, sorry, a B2 bomber encounter a saucer
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flying around a DSD elevating.
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There's so many stories.
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Just go read through the blue book files of the unexplained cases.
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No, they're an enormous, and anybody in the government capacity looking at this sort of,
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you know, earnestly always comes to the same conclusion, which is there's something
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Yeah, as Eric Davis says, there's a there there.
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Well, Sammy, UAP, this has been an absolute honor.
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Is there anything else you wanted to cover?
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I mean, they're probably a hundred other things you could talk about, but.
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There's so much stuff we could talk about.
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I just say to everybody, keep investigating crash retrievals and reverse engineering.
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There's a ton of interesting cases and interesting studies and corporations and military
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requirements and send out FOIA requests as well, a no answer in it to Nile is always an
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answer within itself.
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We didn't even get to that story of the whistleblower who talked about, there was an egg-shaped
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craft like off on the Azores, like off of Portugal.
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Well, we'll save that because I plan to talk to that guy soon, but it's a person who
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was stationed with the Yusafu, claimed to see a a TIGTAC.
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A TIGTAC, that's right.
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Unloaded from a C-130 Hercules.
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And there's a lot of good research there as well.
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That C-130s are often transport or what do you mean, good research.
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Oh, just that this is this incident.
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Yeah, there's a because of course this guy when when I studied this case, he doesn't have
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photos or reports on the actual craft, but the information he can share, which is like
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the insignia on the C-130 and on the nearby vans, just even just the C-130 that unloads
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the TIGTAC and knowing what military wing that's from can lead to such bountiful research
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because then you can look for the C-130s from.
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You can look at nearby contractors.
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You can look at nearby air wings.
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You can look at nearby FFRDCs and start to piece together some interesting stuff based
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Well, go subscribe to UAPGurb.
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Check out your doing a follow up with Randy Anderson.
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He'll probably be out or around the outside.
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We have one we put this out and I know you're going to do an amazing job there and you're
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not only going to talk about, you know, talk to him, corroborate his story, but also or
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try to stress test it, you know, whatever, but also go really deep into, you know, the
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specific contractor S-A-I-C, which was likely involved in this sort of, you know, psychotronic
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or psionic research.
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So yeah, it's been an honor to say I really appreciate you stopping by, man.
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Thanks for having me, man.
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