2,562 segments
Angela Ford, welcome to the show.
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I'm glad to be here and thank you for the opportunity.
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Well, thank you for being here and I am very humbled to be here with you right now.
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So you first kind of popped up on my radar when I interviewed Joe McBonaugle.
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He had brought you up in the interview and I asked Joe to connect us if he would connect
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us and he said he would be happy to.
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And then I interviewed another one of your former colleagues.
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Actually sounds like both of them are still colleagues to this day.
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But Edwin May, another fascinating guy.
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And man, everybody in this space has just been so nice to talk to and I love the subject
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So I'm very happy you're here.
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I'm happy to be here.
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Thank you for coming.
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Everybody starts off with a introduction here.
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And so Angela Ford, your remote viewer 079, you have worked for 32 years in the intelligence
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You remember of the US Army's remote viewing at Fort Mead, Maryland from 1986 to 1985.
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I'm excuse me, 1995.
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You are currently a teacher at the Monroe Institute and participant and participate in
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occasional projects with Dr. Ed May at the Laboratories of Fundamental Research, LFR.
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You're one of the few female remote viewers in the Stargate program used to use automatic
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Discovery Channel aired a reenactment of a case that you solved for the US customs in
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You were given special acknowledgment in former Secretary of Defense William Cohen's book
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Murder in the Senate.
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You have been written about in Annie Jacobson's book Phenomenon, The Secret History of the
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US government's investigations into extra sensory perception in psychokinesis.
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I just interviewed her too.
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And another interview I loved and I just really happy I connected with her as well.
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But so we've got a couple things to knock out before we get in the weeds.
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I have a subscription network on Patreon and they are top supporters.
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Many of them have been with me since the very beginning and I wouldn't be here today
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if it wasn't for them.
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And neither would we be having this conversation.
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So one of the things that I offer them is the opportunity to ask each guest a question.
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And so I thought this was a good question because a lot of people kind of categorize spirituality
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with remote viewing and ESP type stuff.
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So this is from Paul.
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Have you known any remote viewers who have claimed negative spiritual experiences in the
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process of their remote viewing?
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Because people that I know were trained in remote viewing.
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OK, remote viewing is nothing more than ESP.
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When somebody remote views to gather intelligence, it's nothing more than what a psychic does.
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The information is out there.
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When somebody receives psychic information, it's mental.
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So the information goes to the brain and then it goes on to the paper whether you're doing
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coordinate remote viewing, extended remote viewing, whether you're using tarot cards,
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whether you're using a crystal ball.
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That's the manifestation of the information.
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So remote viewing is nothing more than ESP.
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It's a nice term that the scientist used.
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It's a nice term to use if you're trying to get money from Congress instead of saying
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And what makes remote viewing remote viewing is the methodology, meaning that the remote
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viewer, the psychic and the people involved in the remote viewing process are blind to
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That is what makes remote viewing is the methodology.
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But if you ask a psychic to we're going to do a remote viewing session, they're going
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to go into session and they're going to do whatever whatever they need to do to gather
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And you can't tell anyone.
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You can't tell a psychic, oh, you can't do that.
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You have to do this.
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Although in the Stargate program, they did have the coordinate remote viewing methodology
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because it was a manual.
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It was written by Stanford Research Institute, made the manual.
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It was nice to have to show Congress that it's more technical.
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It took away from the spirituality.
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But the army took it as military likes to train.
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So when the army people saw this manual of coordinate remote viewing, then they kind
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of made it their Bible and this is remote viewing.
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But actually, when somebody remote views, they're just being a psychic.
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I mean, you can see it.
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Whatever happens in a session, you don't know.
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Now, as not, now I've had other people who claim that they're psychic, that if they've
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had negative experiences.
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And I've had negative experiences.
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And I remembered whenever I had started training as a psychic, I was very young.
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I, a woman told me, she said, Angela, you're going to, you're going to see positive, but
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you're going to see negative.
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You're going to feel negativity because this is what Earth, we Earth is made of positive,
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there's positivity and there's negativity.
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But I'm just not, it's, sometimes it's just there, but it goes, it's energy.
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It just kind of goes away.
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I've been doing it for so long and so much has happened to me.
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It just doesn't matter.
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But I do, you know, people call me up and they get a little nervous.
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They go, you know, I had this dream and what does this mean?
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Or they may feel like, did I just had a guy email me the other day?
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I think he got, he started seeing, I think he was seeing worms in his third eye area.
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And I said, and I said your third eye, you know, it's a shock or center that's opening
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You know, I don't know.
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I just feel there is negative.
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And I know a lot of psychics that don't want to read people if they're negative.
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Well, good luck to that.
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I mean, we're not always going to be 100% positive all the time.
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And then I know people healers and psychics, they bring a client in and they'll go through
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a whole exercise of, you know, talking, bringing the light, you know, blessing themselves.
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It's just, I don't know, just, I don't do all of that.
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But I guess, I don't know.
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I guess it's just negative and positive.
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Well, changing the subject just a little bit, when I walked up here to start the interview,
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my editor was sitting here and you guys were having a conversation and it sounds like
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you had somehow tapped into his health.
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Can you explain what was going on there?
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He asked, he said, can you, he asked me if I could give him a reading sometime.
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And I said, well, I said, I can do it now.
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So I just needed his, I needed to concentrate on something.
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So I asked him for his birthday and he gave me his birthday.
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And from his birthday, I was able to tune in.
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And I felt like he, I actually, I felt like he was going through a huge year of change,
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which he, whenever he told me what was going on.
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And I said, and it's a kind of aspect where people want change, but it could be more
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change than what you want.
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In other words, by the time this comes around in your life, you, you welcome change.
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But sometimes you get changed that you don't want.
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And I said, you can even lose friends.
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Well, that made sense to him.
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And then I don't know why, I just, I don't know why.
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I just, I said, I said, do you have a Dalek?
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I said, I just told him he had a Daleket system.
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And he did say, I said, you have to eat light foods.
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So does that just come to you?
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In many ways, just in many, many ways, just focusing.
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I, well, then just, I need a focus.
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I really do need a focus.
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And I knew I didn't have, the birthday, his birthday kind of helped.
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I did some basic numerology.
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And just, and, and then it's just that focus.
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And then it just kind of opens up the door.
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And then I can go from that.
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It just opens up the door.
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Could you, could you describe the chakras?
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Well, I guess there's, there's, there's, there's, there's these points on your body, like your hands.
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I think there's one in the stomach area, it's called the solar plex, and then you have the Kundalini,
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which is your spine.
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It comes up like a snake.
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And then you have the third eye, and you have your feet.
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And a lot of times when people become very sensitive or psychic, these points, they kind of,
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It's sort of like you, we have an aura.
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And these, and so it's sort of like as you become more aware or as you become more psychic,
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you're opening yourself up more to these energies.
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And so you become more sensitive.
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So you become more in tune with the environment.
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You become more in tune.
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I think it took me about nine months to go through a process.
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I have one more question before we, we get into the life story.
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So not long ago, me and my wife went out to dinner with a, with a couple that's very good
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And we talk about things like this and, and, and UFOs and, it's stuff like that a lot.
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And my friend's wife was talking about, she was saying that she has dreams.
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I believe it was dreams.
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But she felt like somebody else was putting those visuals or messaging into her head.
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And so she would vocally say, hey, you're not welcome here.
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And I've seen some articles as of late that, that, that kind of talks a little bit about.
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I don't know if mine controls the right word, but kind of thought control.
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Is that, is that a thing?
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A lot of people get, it's sort of like whenever you go to a haunted house and you see a,
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it's the same thing.
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It's, it's not like she has, it's, I think what she needs to do is just recognize and
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just say, you know, I recognize what you're doing here.
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And, you know, and if you can recognize what's going on, and she could say something like,
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look, I recognize what's going on here.
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And why do you want me to have this information?
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But I'd rather not have it.
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It's just, it just, it's almost like if you see a ghost or a, it's like, hi, I know you're
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It's wreck, recognize it.
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And once, once you wreck, it's like they want to be recognized.
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And then it just goes away.
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I think what she was thinking was going on is that basically what I'm getting out
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is, would it be possible for a remote viewer to inject a thought or a certain feeling or
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maybe information into another individual's mental status?
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Have you heard of that before?
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Yeah, because that's what they, yeah, because if somebody, I think at one point they
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were, it was always thought that like if somebody was kidnapped, if they were, they were
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trying to tell people if they were kidnapped, start concentrating on, if I think like
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if every remote viewer could find the person, if the person would start, suppose you were
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kidnapped and somebody wanted me to find you, you could, you could start saying, you know,
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explaining where you are or what you're going through and I could tap into that.
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Oh, yeah, that's what they want.
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Yeah, it's telepathy.
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That's called telepathy.
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A couple, yeah, I have done that with, yeah, with my sister, I did it a couple of times.
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How would it, can you describe that experience?
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Well, there's, okay.
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There was one instant where, and I don't know if this is, that, okay, when I was working
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for the government, I was working for Army Intelligence, I had heard that there was one
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of my college professors that just started working at the Pentagon and I guess I kept
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meaning to call him to get in touch with him.
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Well, one evening he was out and he saw my sister and so they talked and my sister came
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home and I was sleeping so I went to work the next day and I called the guy and he said,
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oh, he said, I bet your sister told me to call, I bet your sister told you to call me
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and I said, no, I haven't talked to my sister.
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And he, so he felt like, oh, wow, he said, you must be psychic because I just saw your
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sister less than 24 hours ago, but somehow I must have known to call him even though
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she didn't tell me that she saw him.
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Another instance I had with my sister was, I, she was in the, we were living in an apartment
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and I had to, she had a, I don't know what she did, she would keep forgetting a certain
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house key or something.
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So every time she would come in, I'd have to, and I can remember always just kind of
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sending her a message, don't forget the key, don't forget the key.
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And I almost, at one point, I could almost see her going back for the key and reaching
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So I later on that day when I saw her, I said, did you almost forget the key?
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And I knew what time she had left.
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I, I could, I knew what time she left.
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Well, I kept saying, don't forget the key, don't forget the key.
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Either she was going to lock herself out or I was going to get there and I would have
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And I can remember saying, don't, projecting, don't forget the key.
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And then I kind of saw this image and I could see her going back for the key and I, and
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I recorded the time.
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So when I saw her later, I said, did you almost, what time did you leave the apartment?
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And I said, did you almost forget the key?
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She said, yeah, I have to come back for it.
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That stuff is just fascinating to me.
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Absolutely fascinating.
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Oh, yeah, my husband keeps his away from my husband's freedom.
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Oh, he has us all throughout the house, but don't thank you.
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But aren't, Angela, so we're going to start right at the very beginning.
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Where did you grow up?
[0:21:01 - 0:21:02] ▶
I grew up in a small coal mining town in Western Pennsylvania.
[0:21:02 - 0:21:09] ▶
From Indiana County, Pennsylvania, it was where Jimmy Stewart was born and raised.
[0:21:09 - 0:21:13] ▶
I came from a large Italian family.
[0:21:16 - 0:21:19] ▶
Both sides of my family are Italian.
[0:21:19 - 0:21:23] ▶
And when I was very young, when I was very young, I had a lot of out-of-body experiences.
[0:21:23 - 0:21:31] ▶
What age did that start?
[0:21:31 - 0:21:32] ▶
I can remember when the, I guess they say at certain points of your life, I guess you
[0:21:35 - 0:21:44] ▶
get the spark of life or there's a spark.
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I can remember when I began to walk.
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I can remember this spark going in me.
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I recognized I was a baby, but I knew a spark went in me.
[0:21:55 - 0:21:59] ▶
I was very aware of that.
[0:22:00 - 0:22:04] ▶
And I had a lot of, and I had a twin sister who had out-of-body experiences.
[0:22:04 - 0:22:10] ▶
Now I told my mother, I would get up and I would tell my mother what my, oh, and then
[0:22:10 - 0:22:18] ▶
I started to have dreams.
[0:22:18 - 0:22:20] ▶
I started to have dreams.
[0:22:20 - 0:22:22] ▶
And there were a lot of dreams.
[0:22:22 - 0:22:23] ▶
It was about, a lot of things about world events when I was six years old.
[0:22:23 - 0:22:29] ▶
And I would tell my mother and my mother would listen to me.
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And there are a lot of things about China, a lot of things about Russia.
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I was only six years old and I would get up and talk about these dreams, but my mother
[0:22:42 - 0:22:45] ▶
would listen to me and she'd never discouraged me.
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And as a child growing up, I can, now once I got into school and when I became busy,
[0:22:49 - 0:22:55] ▶
it didn't happen all the time, things sort of faded away.
[0:22:55 - 0:22:59] ▶
But I was always curious in the subject because I knew I was flying out, I was leaving my
[0:22:59 - 0:23:07] ▶
body, I could see my body, I'm flying out the door, I'm walking through walls in the
[0:23:07 - 0:23:13] ▶
So I was always interested in the subject, but I didn't.
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So I've got a maybe psychic sometime, but my mother was very interested in the subject.
[0:23:21 - 0:23:28] ▶
She had a really, my mother had all kind of paraphernalia laying around the house from Edgar
[0:23:28 - 0:23:34] ▶
Casey to, she had a lot of Edgar Casey material.
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She bought a whole encyclopedia of the occult.
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Encyclopedia, my mother was into it.
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She would listen to Jeannie Dixon and what Jury Galler on TV and she liked country western
[0:23:49 - 0:23:56] ▶
music and she believed in reincarnation.
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So as a teenager growing up, you know, she talked about reincarnation and turned up that
[0:24:00 - 0:24:06] ▶
country of music and I thought she was weird and I just was, I was so embarrassed when friends
[0:24:06 - 0:24:15] ▶
would come over and one time the car radio broke and I was so happy because then we didn't
[0:24:15 - 0:24:20] ▶
have to listen to the country music and I was walking down the road because it's a coal
[0:24:20 - 0:24:27] ▶
mining town, the road, not the street, the north on a sidewalk, but the road and she had
[0:24:27 - 0:24:32] ▶
a transistor and I was walking with my friends and she held that transistor out the window
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as she was driving and she said, listen, Angela, and it was like a new country western song,
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a singer was singing a new song, you know, but that's the way she was now.
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So I went to college at Indiana University of Pennsylvania and the year that I graduated,
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my sister, I had a political science degree and my sister had a, got received a criminology
[0:25:01 - 0:25:07] ▶
degree and my sister said we should be state police.
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We love criminology and the investigative work.
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So we decided that we were going to be, we were going to be applied to the police, to
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the Pennsylvania police academy.
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Well it wasn't accepting new applicants that year.
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So we had graduated from college, the academy wasn't taking new applicants.
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I think I was just sort of, I was a waitress and I had nothing.
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So there was a man who taught a night class at the university that I attended.
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He was a chemistry teacher but he was psychic and he taught an ESP class at night.
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So I took his ESP class and he was pretty, he was good.
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I could put in, he'd make everybody write a number down and hide it from him and then
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he'd go around and tell you what the number was.
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And I liked him a lot but what happened was I was coming down, the police academy wasn't
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So my sister and I applied to the FBI and we were coming down to Washington, DC to work
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So I got a call one day where I had to go to a factory to work at night because I had
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to quit the class because I had to make money to come down to DC.
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But I always remembered him and I remembered the class.
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So I came down to DC and then I worked as a, for the FBI.
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There's no way we could have become agents or eyesight, what couldn't have done it.
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And it was very, it was a very low-paying job.
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But we did, I did meet, there was a woman I knew who was dating an Indian, an American
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And my sister and I were invited one night.
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I guess it was a powwow they called it.
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And there was some tribal leader, he was, there was some tribal leader from the West.
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And he told my sister and I, he said, he said, did you have pro, did you have drugs?
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And he said, you have dreams when you were young.
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And I said, Jess, and he said, when you're in your 80s, whatever you dreamt about, it will
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Do you remember what you dreamt about?
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What did you dream about?
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That actually that we would not have the, the enemy would be China.
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I know what's going on with Russia and the Ukraine, but that will be resolved.
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That will be resolved.
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And we will be friends with Russia again.
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That was, I remember that.
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And it was China, it was China was the enemy.
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That's what I believe.
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And you know, this was during the Cold War.
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Whenever I had these dreams, you know, remember Khrushchev and it was unbelievable.
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You know, I would say, oh no, you know, we'll be friends with Russia.
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We're going to fight against the Chinese.
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Well, at that time in the night, early 1960s or late 1950s, who would have thought of
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Can we rewind to some of your, I mean, you had mentioned out of body experiences at age
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three, four years old.
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Well, actually four, five years, maybe a little.
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It was before I went to school.
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It was before I entered school at six.
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What, what, what, can you describe?
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Do you remember your first out of body experience?
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No, they all seem the same.
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You just go out of body.
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Was there, what, what, what did the dream entail?
[0:29:04 - 0:29:09] ▶
Oh, it's not a dream.
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It's just you physically, you physically leave your body, you come out and you're here
[0:29:13 - 0:29:18] ▶
in the, in like a aura or a spiritual form in your physical body is laying down.
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Laying, you can see your physical body laying down.
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So you're fully conscious?
[0:29:29 - 0:29:30] ▶
Oh, yeah, fully conscious.
[0:29:30 - 0:29:33] ▶
Are you able to make decisions?
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It's like I want to go, yeah, I could direct myself where to go.
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So where would you, I would go outside on the tree.
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I can't remember one time.
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I really wanted to go.
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I went to the sun, I think, one time because I really wanted to get out of the earth.
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I wanted to go further.
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But I, I, now when I went out of body, I had no control and I still don't, I had no
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control when I go out of body, how I, I don't know how to go out of body.
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But when I go out of body, I can direct it a little bit.
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I do, I can't direct it.
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So you can't control when you, you can't control when the out of body experience is going
[0:30:16 - 0:30:21] ▶
to happen, but you can, you are fully capable of making your own decisions where you want
[0:30:21 - 0:30:27] ▶
to go, if you want to go right, left, up, down, you're, you're capable.
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Are you, are you, do you have the ability to come back in body?
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So what did you think at age, four, five or six?
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Did you find it odd?
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I didn't find it odd, but I knew as I got older, I knew I could not talk about it, don't
[0:30:47 - 0:30:52] ▶
ask me how I knew that.
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I have no, I knew that I could not talk about it to people.
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Who's the first person you talked to?
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My mother, my mother.
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What did your mother say?
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Did she believe you?
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My mother was, yeah, my mother was weird.
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No, she encouraged it.
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Did your mother have out of body experiences?
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Doesn't me tell you what, what happens later, what we find out about my mother is, it's
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She had, she had psychic, now my mother was psychic, but we never knew it.
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And my mother would walk around the house and just make, should my mother would talk
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like, oh, you know, this pope's going to die.
[0:31:38 - 0:31:41] ▶
They're going to get a new pope and the guy's name's going to be John or, and my mother
[0:31:41 - 0:31:45] ▶
would talk like this.
[0:31:45 - 0:31:47] ▶
She remembered, she talked about, my mother would make predictions and we didn't know what
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she was, we never knew she, we didn't call it psychic.
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We just thought she was, you know, a little bit.
[0:31:56 - 0:31:59] ▶
We called her lofty.
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She just sitting seemed to be, she was lofty.
[0:32:04 - 0:32:08] ▶
And she would, a couple of times, you know, she'd be around the house making dinner
[0:32:08 - 0:32:12] ▶
or talking and she'd say, oh, you know, there's going to be a war over in Israel.
[0:32:12 - 0:32:16] ▶
It'll be short lived though.
[0:32:16 - 0:32:18] ▶
And there was, what was it, there were 48 hour war or something.
[0:32:18 - 0:32:21] ▶
So that's how she would talk all the time, but we never paid any attention to her.
[0:32:21 - 0:32:25] ▶
And then she'd talk about reincarnation, go into recording.
[0:32:25 - 0:32:28] ▶
So we never really paid much attention to her.
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Now what happened was, I was down here work.
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I got a job over with, once I left the FBI, I was able to get a job.
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This would have been around 1980.
[0:32:43 - 0:32:45] ▶
I came down to DC in probably 1978 or 79.
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I left the FBI because a woman I was working with left the FBI and she went to join her
[0:32:50 - 0:32:57] ▶
husband who was working with Army Intelligence.
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And she called me up and she said, armies have, army intelligence is having internships.
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They're looking for people with political science degrees.
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You'll be making more money than what you're making now.
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Plus, you know, you get more, as you, as the years go by, you make more money.
[0:33:13 - 0:33:19] ▶
When I started to work for Army Intelligence, I was on a two or three year intern program.
[0:33:21 - 0:33:28] ▶
And I learned all about intelligence.
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How you collected, how you disseminated, how you produce it.
[0:33:30 - 0:33:34] ▶
I went to the different intelligence agencies to find out who's responsible for what.
[0:33:34 - 0:33:41] ▶
And then at the end of the internship, they gave me a job.
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I was a Central American analyst.
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And at the time, it was around the 1982, 83 time period whenever you had the sendinistas
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in Nicaragua and you had Norega in Panama and then insurgencies in El Salvador.
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And I would do the current intelligence briefings every Friday for the command staff.
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And that's what I was doing.
[0:34:17 - 0:34:19] ▶
Well, at the time, my mother called me up one day and she said, it was the fall.
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And she said, I need to take, you know, I want to do something.
[0:34:24 - 0:34:28] ▶
My friends and I were bored.
[0:34:28 - 0:34:30] ▶
My mother always took classes like ceramic classes.
[0:34:30 - 0:34:34] ▶
And I told her, I said, why don't you take Dr. Bordes' ESP class at the college.
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It was the class that I had to quit back when I graduated from college in 1976.
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So she said, I think I will.
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So her and her two friends started to take the class.
[0:34:49 - 0:34:52] ▶
And here what they found out was my mother was very psychic.
[0:34:52 - 0:34:57] ▶
And they could give my mother an object like your ring or a bracelet or a watch.
[0:34:57 - 0:35:04] ▶
And she could hold the object and she could tell you about the person who owned the object.
[0:35:04 - 0:35:10] ▶
So now my mother is, now my mother, we recognize that she has these abilities.
[0:35:10 - 0:35:19] ▶
So my father died during that time.
[0:35:19 - 0:35:22] ▶
It must have been around 1983, 1984.
[0:35:22 - 0:35:26] ▶
My father died and she mailed me a book.
[0:35:26 - 0:35:31] ▶
And she said, Angela, read, it was a sudden death that was unexpected.
[0:35:31 - 0:35:37] ▶
I was with my sister.
[0:35:40 - 0:35:41] ▶
We were heartbroken.
[0:35:41 - 0:35:43] ▶
So my mother emailed me a book and she said, read this book.
[0:35:43 - 0:35:46] ▶
It will help you understand your father's death.
[0:35:46 - 0:35:49] ▶
And it was a book by Ruth Montgomery.
[0:35:50 - 0:35:53] ▶
She was a popular writer at the time.
[0:35:53 - 0:35:56] ▶
And it was called a world beyond.
[0:35:56 - 0:36:00] ▶
So that book helped me get over my grief.
[0:36:00 - 0:36:07] ▶
But after I read the book, I started, things started.
[0:36:07 - 0:36:12] ▶
I felt like I was getting very psychic.
[0:36:12 - 0:36:17] ▶
I started to do channeling or automatic writing.
[0:36:17 - 0:36:21] ▶
My sister was taken an astrology class at the time.
[0:36:21 - 0:36:25] ▶
And my sister, the astrologer knew that my sister and I were doing the automatic writing.
[0:36:25 - 0:36:31] ▶
So she kind of recommended us to go study with a man by the name of Fred Mansbridge in
[0:36:31 - 0:36:37] ▶
He owned the Mansbridge Institute.
[0:36:38 - 0:36:41] ▶
So we started studying from him.
[0:36:41 - 0:36:44] ▶
And I was working at, as a Central American analyst.
[0:36:44 - 0:36:48] ▶
And at that time, somebody, the astrologist teacher told my sister about this psychic program
[0:36:48 - 0:36:56] ▶
that the government had where I worked.
[0:36:56 - 0:36:59] ▶
I heard it from my sister as astrologers.
[0:36:59 - 0:37:01] ▶
I didn't hear it from.
[0:37:01 - 0:37:03] ▶
So I started to make inquiries where I worked.
[0:37:03 - 0:37:06] ▶
And yeah, I had heard there was the psychic program that the army, that they had army
[0:37:06 - 0:37:12] ▶
I didn't even know it was located.
[0:37:13 - 0:37:15] ▶
So I did meet with the general and I did want to go to the program.
[0:37:15 - 0:37:20] ▶
Well, it was General Stubblebine and he was retiring.
[0:37:20 - 0:37:23] ▶
And he was retiring.
[0:37:26 - 0:37:28] ▶
So I thought, well, I guess I lost my chance to be brought into the psychic program.
[0:37:28 - 0:37:36] ▶
And what had happened was he was getting ready to retire.
[0:37:36 - 0:37:44] ▶
So this army psychic sitting up at Fort Meade, they were sitting around ready to get orders
[0:37:44 - 0:37:51] ▶
to go someplace else and work, even the civilians up there.
[0:37:51 - 0:37:54] ▶
You know how the government works?
[0:37:54 - 0:37:56] ▶
We're going to close this program, but you're going to go here and work and you're going
[0:37:56 - 0:37:59] ▶
to go there and work.
[0:37:59 - 0:38:01] ▶
So they assumed that the program would be shut down because General Stubblebine was retiring.
[0:38:01 - 0:38:10] ▶
And he was the army, the remote viewers were being paid by the army.
[0:38:10 - 0:38:14] ▶
They were under the army.
[0:38:14 - 0:38:16] ▶
Well, in the meantime, in 1984, Dr. Jack Verona, who worked at Defense Intelligence Agency,
[0:38:17 - 0:38:24] ▶
who was funding research into parapsychology at Stanford Research Institute and other places
[0:38:24 - 0:38:31] ▶
like Princeton and Duke University, he went to Congress and said, don't shut down the
[0:38:31 - 0:38:38] ▶
program, just transfer the program from army to the Defense Intelligence Agency, which
[0:38:38 - 0:38:45] ▶
And then in 1986, I was brought into the program after it was transferred.
[0:38:47 - 0:38:53] ▶
Let's rewind just a little bit.
[0:38:54 - 0:38:56] ▶
What is automatic writing?
[0:38:56 - 0:38:58] ▶
It's just a way of receiving information.
[0:38:58 - 0:39:02] ▶
Like if you ask a question, it's just a matter.
[0:39:02 - 0:39:06] ▶
It's just a way you can receive information.
[0:39:06 - 0:39:09] ▶
It's like an automatic, it's like an automatic, it's just you just get the information through
[0:39:10 - 0:39:16] ▶
So you think about something and you just start writing?
[0:39:17 - 0:39:22] ▶
No, somebody asked a question and then that kind of goes and then I just sort of write
[0:39:22 - 0:39:27] ▶
How does that come to you?
[0:39:30 - 0:39:32] ▶
Well, first it came slow.
[0:39:33 - 0:39:36] ▶
Came very slow because you know, the process was very slow but now it comes a little faster
[0:39:36 - 0:39:43] ▶
because I've been doing it for so long.
[0:39:43 - 0:39:44] ▶
I mean, I guess what I'm asking is, can you describe what you're experiencing?
[0:39:44 - 0:39:52] ▶
When I, if we were going to do the exercise right now, and I, and you had a pen and
[0:39:52 - 0:40:00] ▶
you were writing and I just asked, what's a question somebody would ask?
[0:40:00 - 0:40:07] ▶
I'm not going to get my, my, my, my, my, raise, you know, I'm going to make more money.
[0:40:07 - 0:40:13] ▶
How does that answer come to you?
[0:40:15 - 0:40:17] ▶
Can you please describe that experience?
[0:40:17 - 0:40:23] ▶
It's like just a door opens.
[0:40:25 - 0:40:29] ▶
You know, is it just a thought that isn't?
[0:40:29 - 0:40:32] ▶
It can come very fast.
[0:40:35 - 0:40:38] ▶
It just, it comes fast.
[0:40:38 - 0:40:41] ▶
How do you clear your head so there's only that one thought or do you?
[0:40:41 - 0:40:45] ▶
I try to be disciplined but sometimes you don't, but sometimes it just comes.
[0:40:47 - 0:40:52] ▶
I don't know if you've ever watched Psychics on TV like, was there a man John Edward?
[0:40:52 - 0:40:59] ▶
Or trees they had the Long Island Psychic.
[0:40:59 - 0:41:03] ▶
If you ever watch them, they're, they talk fast.
[0:41:03 - 0:41:07] ▶
The information comes fast.
[0:41:07 - 0:41:09] ▶
It's how fast it comes.
[0:41:09 - 0:41:11] ▶
In fact, I went to see John Edward in Baltimore and he came out and he said, he said, I'm going
[0:41:11 - 0:41:18] ▶
to start giving information.
[0:41:18 - 0:41:21] ▶
And if it pertains to you, raise your hand and then he would walk over to the person and
[0:41:21 - 0:41:26] ▶
he would say, do not ask me any questions until I am finished talking.
[0:41:26 - 0:41:32] ▶
And he said that it's, it's like these, the information just comes so fast.
[0:41:32 - 0:41:40] ▶
Is it a thought in your head that you write down or is it your hand that just writes it?
[0:41:40 - 0:41:46] ▶
No, the hand is the manifestation.
[0:41:46 - 0:41:49] ▶
Again, the information is out in the ethers.
[0:41:49 - 0:41:53] ▶
You're asking me a question.
[0:41:53 - 0:41:54] ▶
I have to go out there.
[0:41:54 - 0:41:56] ▶
My mind has to go out into the ethers or it has to go out into this energy field.
[0:41:56 - 0:42:02] ▶
So the information is here.
[0:42:02 - 0:42:05] ▶
So it manifests on the paper.
[0:42:05 - 0:42:08] ▶
That's why a lot of people can give a reading without anything.
[0:42:08 - 0:42:13] ▶
Like I know Psychics, so just stand, they don't use anything.
[0:42:13 - 0:42:18] ▶
I think I'm a little, I guess that I like to rely on my paper and pen.
[0:42:18 - 0:42:24] ▶
When did you realize, when did you and your sister have a conversation about what was going
[0:42:24 - 0:42:30] ▶
Who was happening to both of you?
[0:42:31 - 0:42:32] ▶
Oh, and she came home one day and I was doing the automatic writing and I showed her
[0:42:32 - 0:42:38] ▶
what I was doing and she said, oh, I want to do that.
[0:42:38 - 0:42:41] ▶
Is that when she found out?
[0:42:42 - 0:42:44] ▶
And you guys are twins.
[0:42:45 - 0:42:47] ▶
And Joe McMonogal has a twin.
[0:42:48 - 0:42:52] ▶
And then she and my mother was psychic.
[0:42:54 - 0:42:57] ▶
I heard her years later that my father's father before he came to the United States, he traveled
[0:42:57 - 0:43:03] ▶
all through Europe with a, with a tray.
[0:43:03 - 0:43:09] ▶
And on the tray was a bird and tarot cards and he would make money by giving somebody
[0:43:09 - 0:43:14] ▶
The bird would pick up the tarot card and my grandfather would give a psychic reading.
[0:43:15 - 0:43:20] ▶
So I have it from my father's side and my mother's side.
[0:43:20 - 0:43:25] ▶
So it has to be a gene.
[0:43:25 - 0:43:27] ▶
It has to be a gene.
[0:43:27 - 0:43:30] ▶
Do you think, I talked with Joe about this.
[0:43:30 - 0:43:33] ▶
I've talked to, I think I talked to Ed about this, maybe John Alexander as well.
[0:43:33 - 0:43:42] ▶
Did all humans have this at one point in time?
[0:43:42 - 0:43:46] ▶
What is, I mean, I think it's, I think it's always been there.
[0:43:46 - 0:43:49] ▶
But we just, it's all, I mean, why are we, we, we know intuitively, we know when to
[0:43:49 - 0:43:54] ▶
come out of the womb.
[0:43:54 - 0:43:56] ▶
It's like, psychically, we know when to be born.
[0:43:56 - 0:44:00] ▶
I believe psychically, we know when to leave too.
[0:44:00 - 0:44:04] ▶
I watched my mother-in-law and a, and a, a brother.
[0:44:07 - 0:44:11] ▶
I feel like, yeah, I feel like they knew when to go.
[0:44:11 - 0:44:17] ▶
They knew it's like they took themselves out.
[0:44:17 - 0:44:20] ▶
When, I think we all have it, it's just, it's, it's just not accepted in our culture.
[0:44:22 - 0:44:29] ▶
It's, it's just, which just not accepted in our culture.
[0:44:29 - 0:44:34] ▶
Other cultures have an easier time with it.
[0:44:34 - 0:44:37] ▶
And if this is against somebody's belief system, you're not going to do anything to change
[0:44:37 - 0:44:42] ▶
I've, I've figured that out.
[0:44:45 - 0:44:46] ▶
It was, um, I've heard a lot of people say it's, it's, it's demonic.
[0:44:46 - 0:44:53] ▶
I've heard all kinds of things.
[0:44:53 - 0:44:55] ▶
what, why do you think we've lost it though?
[0:44:58 - 0:45:00] ▶
If you, if you believe everybody had this gift at one point in time, I think the church,
[0:45:00 - 0:45:07] ▶
I think, I think a lot of it had to do with the church back a long, long time ago, whenever
[0:45:09 - 0:45:20] ▶
the Christianity came about in Constantinople, and he, you know, he wasn't only an, an emperor
[0:45:20 - 0:45:27] ▶
or a ruler, he was also wanted to be a religious leader.
[0:45:27 - 0:45:31] ▶
So I think he took a lot of things out of the, a lot of these things out of the church.
[0:45:31 - 0:45:37] ▶
That's why you have groups like the Masons and you have these secret societies.
[0:45:37 - 0:45:41] ▶
I mean, I think these people have know this stuff, but it's just not talked about.
[0:45:41 - 0:45:49] ▶
I mean, at this, what do they say?
[0:45:49 - 0:45:53] ▶
We only use 10% of our brain.
[0:45:53 - 0:45:55] ▶
I mean, do you think that through advancements and technology that we are losing brain
[0:45:55 - 0:46:07] ▶
I hope not, but, you know, everybody's afraid of AI.
[0:46:08 - 0:46:14] ▶
We're just going to have to think a new way.
[0:46:16 - 0:46:19] ▶
There's a, there's a book out called Human Design and the guy that wrote it said that even
[0:46:19 - 0:46:23] ▶
people, children, the next generations, as they come out after us, their brains will be
[0:46:23 - 0:46:30] ▶
They will be more, I guess, our computer systems are changing or things are changing.
[0:46:31 - 0:46:36] ▶
So when these new people come, somehow they're going to be geared up to understand maybe
[0:46:36 - 0:46:43] ▶
things that we couldn't.
[0:46:43 - 0:46:44] ▶
So there's, I guess there's an evolution.
[0:46:44 - 0:46:48] ▶
And in that evolution, we're losing, we're losing psychic abilities.
[0:46:48 - 0:46:56] ▶
And we shouldn't, we should be getting, we should be gaining more psychic abilities.
[0:46:57 - 0:47:02] ▶
How would we gain more?
[0:47:02 - 0:47:03] ▶
I think just being aware of having more awareness, being more in tune and understanding that,
[0:47:03 - 0:47:10] ▶
I don't understand people, I don't know, I just think being psychic really is just being
[0:47:10 - 0:47:19] ▶
You don't even, if you could just go into a room and just be aware of who's, you know,
[0:47:21 - 0:47:27] ▶
what's in that room?
[0:47:27 - 0:47:28] ▶
How is that person feeling?
[0:47:29 - 0:47:31] ▶
You know, read the room, read the people, but people don't do that.
[0:47:31 - 0:47:34] ▶
They just go in and talk.
[0:47:34 - 0:47:36] ▶
So it sounds like you're kind of saying just being in the moment completely aware of your
[0:47:39 - 0:47:46] ▶
surroundings and paying attention, just paying attention to your thoughts, to what's happening
[0:47:46 - 0:47:53] ▶
to maybe, maybe, coincidences.
[0:47:53 - 0:47:57] ▶
Yeah, nothing is a coincidence.
[0:47:57 - 0:48:00] ▶
It does seem that way.
[0:48:00 - 0:48:01] ▶
Nothing is a coincidence.
[0:48:01 - 0:48:03] ▶
When did you come to that conclusion?
[0:48:03 - 0:48:05] ▶
It just because everything, I mean, how I got to army intelligence, I never thought I
[0:48:05 - 0:48:10] ▶
I would have been happy in Pennsylvania.
[0:48:12 - 0:48:16] ▶
I had relatives that were involved in politics, local politics, I was, you know, working
[0:48:16 - 0:48:22] ▶
on political campaigns.
[0:48:22 - 0:48:24] ▶
When I came to DC, it wasn't easy.
[0:48:26 - 0:48:29] ▶
Working for the FBI was difficult.
[0:48:29 - 0:48:31] ▶
It was the years after Hoover had died and they were trying to make a transition into
[0:48:31 - 0:48:37] ▶
hiring minorities and working with minorities.
[0:48:37 - 0:48:42] ▶
So, and then I went to army intelligence and they were, I think they had a problem because
[0:48:42 - 0:48:48] ▶
I was a female civilian and you need the civilian workforce in a military.
[0:48:48 - 0:48:56] ▶
Because they're what they stay.
[0:48:56 - 0:49:01] ▶
I mean, it really wasn't easy.
[0:49:02 - 0:49:05] ▶
But I had nothing else to go back to, even when I would try to go back to Pennsylvania.
[0:49:05 - 0:49:10] ▶
I just couldn't find anything to do anything.
[0:49:10 - 0:49:14] ▶
How did you get selected for the remote viewing program?
[0:49:14 - 0:49:18] ▶
Well, what happened was, I had found out to my sister's astrologer that they, I had found
[0:49:18 - 0:49:25] ▶
out that army intelligence where I was working had this, had these psychics, remote viewers.
[0:49:25 - 0:49:33] ▶
So I, I want, I met, I asked to meet General Stubblebind to see if I really wanted to go to the
[0:49:34 - 0:49:40] ▶
But then I got in trouble with my command.
[0:49:41 - 0:49:44] ▶
I guess because I skipped my chain of command, my immediate chain of command got very upset
[0:49:44 - 0:49:50] ▶
And then General Stubblebind was retiring.
[0:49:52 - 0:49:55] ▶
So I thought that while I wouldn't be able to go.
[0:49:55 - 0:49:58] ▶
But then he retired in 1984 and everybody thought that the program, that the psychics,
[0:49:58 - 0:50:05] ▶
the remote viewing program would go away.
[0:50:05 - 0:50:08] ▶
But Dr. Verona picked it up in 1985 and transferred everything to defense intelligence agency.
[0:50:08 - 0:50:16] ▶
In January 1986, I got approached by the people, it's, by the people at Fort Mead, to they
[0:50:16 - 0:50:26] ▶
sent someone down to interview me for the job.
[0:50:26 - 0:50:29] ▶
And it took six months to get from army intelligence to the defense intelligence agency to work as
[0:50:29 - 0:50:35] ▶
They interviewed me.
[0:50:37 - 0:50:38] ▶
I did personality tests and my clearances had to be sent from army to DIA.
[0:50:38 - 0:50:45] ▶
What was the interview like?
[0:50:45 - 0:50:46] ▶
Just a personality test.
[0:50:46 - 0:50:50] ▶
Just general questions.
[0:50:50 - 0:50:52] ▶
But I think General Stubblebind told them to hire me.
[0:50:52 - 0:50:55] ▶
So as far as the, as far as the interview, I figured I was going because it was the type
[0:50:55 - 0:51:03] ▶
of program that you couldn't apply for.
[0:51:03 - 0:51:07] ▶
It was a special access program.
[0:51:07 - 0:51:09] ▶
You couldn't apply for it.
[0:51:09 - 0:51:11] ▶
They took people, if you met somebody and you thought they could fit in the unit, that's
[0:51:11 - 0:51:16] ▶
how they were brought in.
[0:51:16 - 0:51:18] ▶
So I'm sure if a general called some, you know, like the commander up at Fort Mead, who
[0:51:18 - 0:51:24] ▶
was ahead of the remote viewers and said to bring me on, I'm sure they would have listened
[0:51:24 - 0:51:29] ▶
to him because he was a general.
[0:51:29 - 0:51:31] ▶
If what point did they, did they ask why you thought, why they thought you would be, excuse
[0:51:32 - 0:51:39] ▶
Why you thought you would be a good addition to the, to the program?
[0:51:40 - 0:51:44] ▶
No, they just gave me this personality.
[0:51:44 - 0:51:47] ▶
They kept giving me personality tests.
[0:51:47 - 0:51:50] ▶
They kept asking me all these questions.
[0:51:50 - 0:51:52] ▶
But the personality test, I don't know, you know, I don't know why they, I think they
[0:51:52 - 0:52:00] ▶
took me because the general says to take me because I ended up being on the test.
[0:52:00 - 0:52:06] ▶
I ended up being like a judging person.
[0:52:06 - 0:52:09] ▶
And they're saying that perceptive people make better remote viewers.
[0:52:09 - 0:52:13] ▶
So I think it was just an exercise to just, we interviewed her and she seems okay and
[0:52:13 - 0:52:19] ▶
But actually, when I got there, they really didn't want me there because of my automatic
[0:52:20 - 0:52:26] ▶
They said it was a bad habit.
[0:52:27 - 0:52:28] ▶
And I got in trouble with my bosses by going to the general.
[0:52:30 - 0:52:35] ▶
So they gave me a hard time and I was very uncomfortable for a long time and I was in
[0:52:35 - 0:52:42] ▶
So that, you know, that made me very uncomfortable.
[0:52:43 - 0:52:46] ▶
So when I went, so from 1984 to, to 19, to July of 1986 before I went to the program,
[0:52:46 - 0:52:55] ▶
I, you know, I was, I was still working as a Central American analyst.
[0:52:55 - 0:53:02] ▶
Now when I went to Fort Mead, my very first day of work, I was met by the operations officer
[0:53:02 - 0:53:13] ▶
and I said, hi, I'm Angela Ford.
[0:53:13 - 0:53:17] ▶
It was the first time I met him.
[0:53:17 - 0:53:19] ▶
And he said, I know who you are.
[0:53:19 - 0:53:21] ▶
And he said, and I've heard about you.
[0:53:21 - 0:53:23] ▶
And he said, you have a bad habit.
[0:53:23 - 0:53:25] ▶
He said, what you're going, he says, we're going to teach you the right way to be psychic.
[0:53:25 - 0:53:30] ▶
Well, at that point, I wasn't going to argue with him because I knew what it was like to
[0:53:31 - 0:53:36] ▶
be in trouble by going over the chain of command.
[0:53:36 - 0:53:39] ▶
So whatever, I didn't want to be in trouble again.
[0:53:39 - 0:53:42] ▶
He said, okay, but every, okay, it's a bad habit.
[0:53:42 - 0:53:48] ▶
Show, you know, okay, it's a bad habit.
[0:53:48 - 0:53:52] ▶
What do you want me to do, you know?
[0:53:52 - 0:53:53] ▶
So what happened was these military people, they were all learning this coordinate remote
[0:53:53 - 0:53:59] ▶
Now, they put me with a trainer, they put me with this man, his name was Jean.
[0:54:00 - 0:54:05] ▶
And I don't think in Jean was a civilian and he worked in Germany.
[0:54:06 - 0:54:12] ▶
He used to be in the military and then he worked as a civilian and he worked in Germany.
[0:54:12 - 0:54:17] ▶
And you know, if you're a civilian and you work overseas, you're only allowed to work
[0:54:17 - 0:54:21] ▶
so many years, five years.
[0:54:21 - 0:54:23] ▶
So five years were up and Jean needed a job.
[0:54:24 - 0:54:27] ▶
So he called the commander at the remote viewers and he said, hey, I need a job.
[0:54:27 - 0:54:35] ▶
And the commander said, well, come on down here.
[0:54:35 - 0:54:37] ▶
They made a trainer.
[0:54:38 - 0:54:40] ▶
So I don't think this guy, he didn't have much experience with psychics or, you know,
[0:54:40 - 0:54:48] ▶
he just needed a job because he needed a job.
[0:54:48 - 0:54:51] ▶
So they put me with him because he needed somebody to train because all the military
[0:54:51 - 0:54:56] ▶
people were doing training under another trainer.
[0:54:56 - 0:55:00] ▶
So they put me with this train, this train, the trainer, Jean, because he needed
[0:55:00 - 0:55:05] ▶
Well, when Jean found out I was doing automatic writing and the people didn't like it,
[0:55:06 - 0:55:11] ▶
then he was giving me a hard time.
[0:55:12 - 0:55:15] ▶
You know, he can't do it.
[0:55:15 - 0:55:16] ▶
We're going to teach you the right way.
[0:55:17 - 0:55:18] ▶
So I said, okay, so what are we going to do here?
[0:55:18 - 0:55:21] ▶
Now, what they did was they called it extended remote viewing and it was nothing
[0:55:21 - 0:55:26] ▶
more than you sort of visualize.
[0:55:26 - 0:55:29] ▶
You, you, you, they put a picture in an envelope and you sort of go down into
[0:55:29 - 0:55:34] ▶
like a meditative state, self hypnotic state, and you get visuals and then you
[0:55:34 - 0:55:40] ▶
write down what you see.
[0:55:40 - 0:55:42] ▶
So that's what I, that's what I did.
[0:55:42 - 0:55:45] ▶
And they called it extended remote viewing.
[0:55:46 - 0:55:49] ▶
And while I was waiting for my clearances to be passed from Army Intelligence to
[0:55:49 - 0:55:55] ▶
DIA to go work as a psychic, I picked up this book.
[0:55:55 - 0:55:59] ▶
It was called The Silver Mind Control by Dr. Silva.
[0:55:59 - 0:56:03] ▶
And in it, he taught it was very close to the extended remote viewing.
[0:56:03 - 0:56:08] ▶
He taught about how you can go down and visualize like if I want to pick up
[0:56:08 - 0:56:14] ▶
information on you, I would go down and I would visualize, um, I would visualize
[0:56:14 - 0:56:22] ▶
Now what I would do is I would turn on the TV.
[0:56:23 - 0:56:26] ▶
Now I'm going to watch Sean.
[0:56:27 - 0:56:28] ▶
So in my mind, I turn on a TV and then I see you and then I see it.
[0:56:28 - 0:56:34] ▶
And then I pick up information about you and then when I'm done, I turn the
[0:56:34 - 0:56:38] ▶
TV off and then I come back and I say, don't just, this is what I picked up on you.
[0:56:38 - 0:56:42] ▶
That's what, and, or you can do it with pictures.
[0:56:43 - 0:56:46] ▶
And so I read the silver mind control and then what, um,
[0:56:47 - 0:56:52] ▶
so when I went to work for the unit, they were calling it extended remote viewing
[0:56:53 - 0:56:57] ▶
and it was the same thing that I read in the book.
[0:56:57 - 0:56:59] ▶
So I would in my mind, whenever I was working the training targets, I just turn
[0:57:00 - 0:57:05] ▶
on the TV and describe the picture and come out and do it.
[0:57:05 - 0:57:10] ▶
So that's how I was doing.
[0:57:11 - 0:57:12] ▶
But no, I wasn't going to argue with them.
[0:57:12 - 0:57:14] ▶
They did not want me to do my automatic writing and being in trouble before it.
[0:57:14 - 0:57:19] ▶
Now about a year and a half after I was with the program, my trainer left, the
[0:57:22 - 0:57:28] ▶
commander left, the one woman left, everybody left.
[0:57:28 - 0:57:32] ▶
They brought new people in and they brought in one training officer and he,
[0:57:32 - 0:57:38] ▶
he said he didn't care what people did because he wasn't wild about the
[0:57:38 - 0:57:42] ▶
coordinate remote viewing and he, um, he, he used to be a remote viewer.
[0:57:42 - 0:57:49] ▶
It's he didn't care about methodology.
[0:57:49 - 0:57:51] ▶
The thing with the military was they were proud because of their methodology.
[0:57:51 - 0:57:56] ▶
They had this coordinate remote viewing.
[0:57:56 - 0:57:58] ▶
They had extended remote viewing and these, this, you know, this is the way that's
[0:57:58 - 0:58:03] ▶
This is how you, this is how to be a psychic.
[0:58:04 - 0:58:08] ▶
This is the way you do it.
[0:58:08 - 0:58:10] ▶
Well, you know, I come more from a spiritual, more from a spiritual, whatever
[0:58:10 - 0:58:17] ▶
And I would have thought that if you're going to go work as a psychic for the
[0:58:18 - 0:58:22] ▶
government, you would have thought at some point what some of them would have
[0:58:22 - 0:58:25] ▶
picked up a book or went to a metaphysical church and done something to look into
[0:58:25 - 0:58:30] ▶
the subject, but they took it as very, um, matter of fact, this, it, so what
[0:58:30 - 0:58:38] ▶
happened was about a year and a half things started to change.
[0:58:38 - 0:58:43] ▶
Management started to change.
[0:58:43 - 0:58:44] ▶
And I told, I told my boss, Fern, I said, I want to do automatic writing.
[0:58:46 - 0:58:51] ▶
He said, well, you can do it.
[0:58:51 - 0:58:52] ▶
So he would say, he would give, he said, you can go home and do it.
[0:58:54 - 0:58:57] ▶
It could be tasking and then I'd go home and do it.
[0:58:57 - 0:58:59] ▶
But one day I walked in and I, um, I, Fern and I, I walked, I don't know what
[0:59:00 - 0:59:11] ▶
Um, I told Fern, he, he allowed people to do different methodologies.
[0:59:12 - 0:59:18] ▶
So I told him, I said, well, then come over and work with me because I want
[0:59:18 - 0:59:23] ▶
to show you what I can do.
[0:59:23 - 0:59:24] ▶
And he put a target in the envelope and it happened to be Terry Anderson, who
[0:59:26 - 0:59:30] ▶
was a, um, he was a hostage held by the, his boy, in Lebanon.
[0:59:30 - 0:59:36] ▶
And I described Terry and I described him.
[0:59:36 - 0:59:39] ▶
I said that he's in a country that he's, he's, he's located in a country that's
[0:59:39 - 0:59:44] ▶
Um, you know, I felt that he probably was restricted and that I felt that
[0:59:46 - 0:59:51] ▶
eventually he would come out and he would be well.
[0:59:51 - 0:59:53] ▶
So that was, that hit it pretty much.
[0:59:54 - 0:59:56] ▶
So Fern, like we started working, but we started working, um,
[0:59:56 - 1:00:02] ▶
uh, hostages, they had, um, they had other hostages there.
[1:00:03 - 1:00:09] ▶
They had, but remember in, they had, um,
[1:00:09 - 1:00:14] ▶
they had a lot of university professors at Barut that they had kidnapped.
[1:00:17 - 1:00:22] ▶
They had a man named Poe Hill and I kept saying his throat hurt and he came out.
[1:00:22 - 1:00:27] ▶
When he caught out, he was diagnosed with, um, throat cancer.
[1:00:27 - 1:00:31] ▶
Now we were doing hostages and we were running the information up to the
[1:00:32 - 1:00:39] ▶
defense and we were running the information from Fort Mead to bowling air
[1:00:39 - 1:00:43] ▶
force base, which is what close to an hour.
[1:00:43 - 1:00:45] ▶
So whatever hostages I was working, they were running the information up and
[1:00:46 - 1:00:51] ▶
the people were taking the information and giving it to the Israeli embassy.
[1:00:51 - 1:00:55] ▶
And the Israelis were acting on the information.
[1:00:55 - 1:00:58] ▶
Now we got a call on Sunday and they said that there was a, uh,
[1:00:59 - 1:01:04] ▶
marine rich higgins.
[1:01:04 - 1:01:06] ▶
He was a marine colonel and he was kid, he went to be, he went to Lebanon and he was
[1:01:06 - 1:01:12] ▶
kidnapped and they asked if we could find him and they were very concerned
[1:01:12 - 1:01:18] ▶
because he was an military and they were afraid he was going to be killed.
[1:01:18 - 1:01:22] ▶
So I worked the case and, um,
[1:01:23 - 1:01:27] ▶
and I knew his movements.
[1:01:29 - 1:01:30] ▶
I was saying he's moving here.
[1:01:30 - 1:01:32] ▶
I was picking up things that they could come back and say that, okay, I was more or less
[1:01:33 - 1:01:39] ▶
matching with the, with the intel messages were coming in, but they did not know where he was.
[1:01:39 - 1:01:46] ▶
So I looked at, they were giving me images, pieces of imagery.
[1:01:46 - 1:01:50] ▶
So I went to a piece of imagery and I said he's right there and I pointed to where Higgins was.
[1:01:50 - 1:01:56] ▶
And, um, of course, the military people in the office said, well, there's nothing there.
[1:01:56 - 1:02:02] ▶
It's, um, it's all woods.
[1:02:02 - 1:02:05] ▶
Why would he be there?
[1:02:05 - 1:02:06] ▶
But the analyst said it's old imagery.
[1:02:06 - 1:02:09] ▶
So, um, the hostages, the, the, the, um,
[1:02:10 - 1:02:15] ▶
the terrorist about a month later after I had put Higgins in this location,
[1:02:17 - 1:02:22] ▶
the hostages left, sometimes they let hostages go.
[1:02:22 - 1:02:26] ▶
So there was a hostage that was let go by his boolah and it was a, it was a German guy,
[1:02:26 - 1:02:32] ▶
Cordez. So our analyst went over to Rhein-Mijn in Germany to debrief him.
[1:02:32 - 1:02:39] ▶
And our analyst asked, do you know where Higgins is?
[1:02:39 - 1:02:43] ▶
And the, um, Cordez, the released hostage said he's right there.
[1:02:43 - 1:02:49] ▶
He pointed to where I, where I had pointed to.
[1:02:49 - 1:02:52] ▶
And the analyst looked at him and said, but there's nothing there.
[1:02:53 - 1:02:57] ▶
But, uh, woods and the Cordez said, no, they built a structure there to put Higgins in.
[1:02:57 - 1:03:05] ▶
And that's where he was.
[1:03:06 - 1:03:08] ▶
Wow. Was that your first?
[1:03:09 - 1:03:10] ▶
Yeah, that was, that was pretty good.
[1:03:11 - 1:03:13] ▶
That was, yeah, I had, I think at one time I had Terry Anderson in the Bacaw Valley
[1:03:13 - 1:03:19] ▶
and the analyst came back and said, oh, he would never be in the Bacaw Valley.
[1:03:19 - 1:03:23] ▶
It's not the MO of the terror of the terrorist, but he was cited in the Bacaw Valley at one time.
[1:03:23 - 1:03:30] ▶
I mean, what does that feel like to get a confirmation?
[1:03:32 - 1:03:35] ▶
Um, it was overwhelming, but, but see what happened was I felt good about everything,
[1:03:36 - 1:03:43] ▶
but the ability, but, you know, they get, but they didn't really like me.
[1:03:43 - 1:03:47] ▶
Why didn't they like you?
[1:03:49 - 1:03:50] ▶
Joe would kind of mention that, that I don't remember his exact phrase, but it kind of sounded like
[1:03:50 - 1:03:56] ▶
he was saying you never got a fair shake.
[1:03:57 - 1:03:59] ▶
Um, first of all, I think there was, then, the fact that how I got in by a general,
[1:04:00 - 1:04:05] ▶
which didn't bother me because I worked in the system long enough to know if somebody
[1:04:05 - 1:04:10] ▶
hired up one shoot, they pick you and you go.
[1:04:10 - 1:04:14] ▶
And I've seen it, and I've seen they do it with males, male,
[1:04:14 - 1:04:18] ▶
that, and I think because I was female, I think because I had the ability before I went in,
[1:04:19 - 1:04:24] ▶
they could not control that.
[1:04:25 - 1:04:26] ▶
So the, so most of the majority of the
[1:04:28 - 1:04:31] ▶
remote viewers, they don't have the ability before?
[1:04:34 - 1:04:37] ▶
No, they just, they know they, the army felt that you could bring people in and train them.
[1:04:37 - 1:04:43] ▶
And you can train a person, you can put, you can put a picture in an envelope and you can train
[1:04:43 - 1:04:49] ▶
a person how to access and describe that picture. But I could go, I could find people, I could find
[1:04:49 - 1:04:56] ▶
things. That was just something I could do. It was like, instead, it was in my mind,
[1:04:56 - 1:05:03] ▶
it was the way my mind worked. I think they resented the fact of how I got in, the fact that
[1:05:03 - 1:05:09] ▶
and they knew, they knew I had this ability and I can remember when my information started to be,
[1:05:11 - 1:05:18] ▶
when they were using my information for operational purposes, they, they were fighting with my boss
[1:05:18 - 1:05:26] ▶
because they felt that I wasn't, it wasn't scientifically proven, how you're going to scientifically
[1:05:26 - 1:05:33] ▶
prove it, I don't know. And that they wanted to, they needed results. I had to prove my results to
[1:05:33 - 1:05:40] ▶
them before it should be used in an operational mode. But why would I have to prove myself to them?
[1:05:40 - 1:05:47] ▶
They're not scientists, they were hired to remote view just like me.
[1:05:47 - 1:05:50] ▶
But I did, I think because, I think because of the information, we were working in a fully operational
[1:05:51 - 1:05:58] ▶
mode. They came down, they couldn't find Kadoffees. Remember the Kadoffee was supposed to have had
[1:05:58 - 1:06:06] ▶
a chemical plant that nobody could find or they said, they knew where it was but they didn't know
[1:06:06 - 1:06:11] ▶
how the chemicals were getting there. Every time they would go, they could never find the chemicals.
[1:06:11 - 1:06:15] ▶
So they asked me, you know, they said, what's going on? So I said they were bringing it in,
[1:06:16 - 1:06:22] ▶
I named this vessel and I called it Pato and I spelled it like potato. So we wrote a report
[1:06:23 - 1:06:30] ▶
up and we brought it to the, it was brought to the analyst and Dr. Verona saw the report sitting on
[1:06:30 - 1:06:37] ▶
the analyst's desk and he says, this doesn't mean anything to you. And the analyst said, well,
[1:06:37 - 1:06:43] ▶
the vessel's not potato, it's potato, it's a B instead of a P, but I spelled it with the P.
[1:06:43 - 1:06:51] ▶
So Dr. Verona said, do you think this, how we describe the report or the scenario, he said,
[1:06:51 - 1:07:01] ▶
do you think this is viable? And he said, the analyst said yes. So they, Dr. Verona went to the
[1:07:01 - 1:07:08] ▶
the commander of the DIA, defense intelligence agency and they called, they called Turkey and they
[1:07:09 - 1:07:17] ▶
pulled up a submarine to watch that vessel. And they, it came back as highly probable. So we really,
[1:07:17 - 1:07:28] ▶
they watched the vessel, the vessel sailed the route that I said it was going to sail. They said
[1:07:29 - 1:07:36] ▶
it probably, that probably did have the chemicals on board or it was probably the way they were
[1:07:36 - 1:07:42] ▶
getting in and out. But it wasn't, it wasn't highly successful or successful. It was highly probable.
[1:07:42 - 1:07:49] ▶
Okay. But that was good enough. I mean, so I mean, that was nerve-wracking to think that they're
[1:07:50 - 1:07:57] ▶
going to pull up a submarine based on my information. Now that really made me nervous, it made my boss
[1:07:57 - 1:08:05] ▶
nervous because that was a soul, you know, an intelligence. You need several sources of information
[1:08:05 - 1:08:12] ▶
before you'll go out and look at something. It was so source. So they had a lot of confidence.
[1:08:12 - 1:08:18] ▶
They did. What they have, would they have other remote viewers on the same project to see if,
[1:08:18 - 1:08:25] ▶
yeah, they would. But in the analyst, in the analyst that we were working with, they would ask the,
[1:08:26 - 1:08:34] ▶
they go, what do you, why, the other remote viewers could not work as fast as I could. And they
[1:08:35 - 1:08:42] ▶
couldn't, I was good at finding things. I was good at describing people. See, I was good at
[1:08:42 - 1:08:50] ▶
personalities. I was good at finding things. The other remote viewers were just taught, put the
[1:08:50 - 1:08:56] ▶
picture in the envelope. It's a Soviet structure. They could be building. It was just, it was a different
[1:08:56 - 1:09:03] ▶
type of, I was, I was performing it a different, different way. Did, were you the only one that had
[1:09:03 - 1:09:12] ▶
differences from your colleagues or were there other unique methods? No, there were two,
[1:09:12 - 1:09:19] ▶
there was coordinate remote viewing and extended remote viewing. And then I did my channeling. And
[1:09:20 - 1:09:26] ▶
Dr. Verona decided to call it WRB written remote viewing. Interesting. A girl came in after me. I
[1:09:26 - 1:09:33] ▶
taught her. She liked, she liked what I did. She was pretty good. And they gave her a hard time.
[1:09:33 - 1:09:41] ▶
Were you guys all centralized? In the safe place. Yeah. So can, can you describe what a
[1:09:42 - 1:09:50] ▶
what would a daily routine be like at started? Well, you got, we had two buildings.
[1:09:51 - 1:09:56] ▶
And one building is where we had our desks and where we would do our reports. And then you had
[1:09:56 - 1:10:03] ▶
a second building where you would go remote view. So we would have schedules, you know, like on,
[1:10:03 - 1:10:09] ▶
there were, there were remote viewing times. I think one was like eight o'clock, maybe 11 o'clock,
[1:10:11 - 1:10:16] ▶
two o'clock. So we would have schedules on when to remote view. And then if we weren't remote
[1:10:16 - 1:10:23] ▶
viewing, we would come over and just to administrative type things, instead of our desks, we would type
[1:10:23 - 1:10:31] ▶
reports. And I we, it was hard, it was hard to work. You can't, we can't work a psychic eight
[1:10:31 - 1:10:41] ▶
hours a day. When, when in the other building and the remote viewing building, what would the
[1:10:41 - 1:10:49] ▶
what would the setting be like? You would walk into a room and there would be a
[1:10:50 - 1:10:55] ▶
sofa, there would be a couch. And you could sit there if you wanted to and relax. And then there
[1:10:55 - 1:11:01] ▶
was a hallway. And then there were two rooms. And there, there was a restroom. And the two rooms
[1:11:01 - 1:11:08] ▶
would have a chair and a desk and a bed. And then then you would go with them back. And it was a
[1:11:08 - 1:11:13] ▶
huge room with a big table. And you could sit there and do, you could remote view. And that room had
[1:11:13 - 1:11:21] ▶
a lot of, if you needed maps, if you need, if you were remote viewing and you needed information
[1:11:21 - 1:11:27] ▶
that you had maps, you had books there. Wow. I mean, this, I mean, I just, man, I want to
[1:11:27 - 1:11:35] ▶
understand the science behind this so bad. So when you remote view and you say that it's an
[1:11:35 - 1:11:43] ▶
energy field that you're tapping into or the ether or, I mean, does that mean that
[1:11:43 - 1:11:49] ▶
everything has already happened? No, it doesn't. It's easy. It's easy to remote view the past
[1:11:51 - 1:12:02] ▶
and it's easy to remote the present because the footprint is there. Okay. Now, if you're asking
[1:12:02 - 1:12:09] ▶
me to remote view the future, I can't remote view the future, but the future has a tendency to change.
[1:12:09 - 1:12:16] ▶
It's not the footprint isn't there. So it's harder sometimes to read the future than the past and
[1:12:16 - 1:12:23] ▶
the present. Okay. Is it, is it a, is it mentally exhausting? Oh my goodness, yes. Yeah.
[1:12:23 - 1:12:34] ▶
What does it feel like? It just, I just couldn't there, there were times I just couldn't work.
[1:12:34 - 1:12:40] ▶
I had done the, I had found a fugitive, a customs agent that went bad.
[1:12:41 - 1:12:46] ▶
Coucharls Jordan. They brought me in on that case. We were having, we were having good luck with
[1:12:47 - 1:12:53] ▶
the hostages and we were doing some other locational work that that I was having success with.
[1:12:53 - 1:13:02] ▶
So there was a, there was a TV program, the 10 most wanted it was a 10,
[1:13:03 - 1:13:08] ▶
and there was a man named Charles Jordan. He was on the 10 most wanted list. He was a customs agent
[1:13:09 - 1:13:16] ▶
that went rogue. He, he took them, the cut the money from the drugs and he didn't want to be,
[1:13:16 - 1:13:21] ▶
he went dirty. He was dirty. So customs called in Dr. Varona and said, we're looking for this guy.
[1:13:21 - 1:13:27] ▶
And you know, in police or military organizations, if you, somebody, if they're dirty, that you know,
[1:13:27 - 1:13:34] ▶
that you really, they really want that guy bad to think that it's, the whole mentality is we've got
[1:13:34 - 1:13:39] ▶
to have him because he, you know, he's just, he's bad. So I went into session with firm and all he
[1:13:39 - 1:13:49] ▶
did, who he asked me, where was Charles Jordan? And it came out, I said, level Wyoming. And it came
[1:13:49 - 1:13:56] ▶
out like that. It just came out. And he looked at me and he said, he was from level, Massachusetts.
[1:13:56 - 1:14:07] ▶
He, no, I said, the guy was in law, Wyoming. In front said, well, I was born in law, Massachusetts.
[1:14:07 - 1:14:16] ▶
Are you sure you mean Wyoming? And I said, yes, because I had the feeling of the West, you know,
[1:14:16 - 1:14:22] ▶
the Wild West, that whole feeling came over me. And I said, no, it's Wyoming.
[1:14:22 - 1:14:26] ▶
So we had, we had some maps there and we were looking through the United States maps and we
[1:14:28 - 1:14:33] ▶
looked at Wyoming. And he said, well, there's a level Wyoming, not law. So I spelled it
[1:14:33 - 1:14:39] ▶
L-O-W-E-L, but it was really L-O-V-E-L. And I said, well, that's close enough. And then I wanted
[1:14:39 - 1:14:46] ▶
to leave. And I think he wanted me to work more because you, you know, in the government, you just
[1:14:46 - 1:14:52] ▶
can't have a report saying level, level Wyoming. So I, but I couldn't, I figured that was it.
[1:14:52 - 1:15:01] ▶
Wow. And we didn't think we had credit for it, but we did. We found out years later that nobody
[1:15:01 - 1:15:08] ▶
believed me what I said. And then they found him. And when they did the reenactment in 1995,
[1:15:08 - 1:15:15] ▶
the customer, we said, oh, it's too bad we didn't get credit for the, you know, for finding the
[1:15:16 - 1:15:22] ▶
guy. They said, oh, no, it was because of my information. They said, the man Charles Jordan, the one
[1:15:22 - 1:15:29] ▶
that the, he sent him, his mother, a picture of himself to show her that he was healthy and that he
[1:15:29 - 1:15:36] ▶
was okay. And when they saw the pictures, they saw the Wyoming license plate. And so they knew I
[1:15:36 - 1:15:42] ▶
was right. And then they started looking up in Wyoming and a security guard at Yellowstone saw
[1:15:42 - 1:15:48] ▶
him. But they said, no, it was because of me. It turned the whole search around. Wow. And they found
[1:15:48 - 1:15:54] ▶
him. Wow. Okay. Now you ask about automatic riding. It is spirit riding. If you ever heard of it.
[1:15:54 - 1:16:01] ▶
No, it is, it's like you get people say it's your higher self. I feel it's, it's a guide. You
[1:16:01 - 1:16:09] ▶
know, we all have guides or angels. Okay. So I was, so what happened was this I was riding spirit
[1:16:09 - 1:16:16] ▶
riding and the spirit kind of identified himself as George. Okay. Now you talk, I want to tell you
[1:16:16 - 1:16:23] ▶
the story because you're talking about negative and positive. My sister came home one night from
[1:16:23 - 1:16:31] ▶
work and I said, hey, I said, I'm doing channeling here from a guy, little guy named George. So my
[1:16:31 - 1:16:37] ▶
sister said, oh, well, I want to do that. So she started riding and she said, well, I got a little
[1:16:37 - 1:16:42] ▶
guide here named Mori. She called him Mori. And at one point Mori said, I am a negative spirit.
[1:16:42 - 1:16:50] ▶
So I said, Louise, I said, stop doing it. I said, because I heard, you know, you can get these
[1:16:50 - 1:16:55] ▶
negative spirits and then they attach to you. And we don't, we want everything to be good.
[1:16:55 - 1:17:00] ▶
So she said, okay. So then I think she started riding to another guy and every once in a while,
[1:17:00 - 1:17:06] ▶
this little Mori would pop up and hit say, hey, I'm here and I am a negative spirit. So we were
[1:17:06 - 1:17:13] ▶
getting like kind of nervous. You, you, you had interaction with them too as well. My sister did.
[1:17:13 - 1:17:19] ▶
Just your sister. And every once in a while, he would pop up. So I didn't know what to do. So
[1:17:19 - 1:17:24] ▶
I think, I don't know who I talked to. It could have been somebody at work because I was good.
[1:17:27 - 1:17:32] ▶
And they said, oh, your sister needs psychiatric help. So I went back to my sister and I said,
[1:17:32 - 1:17:37] ▶
Louise, do you think you need psychological help? She said, probably. So we kept riding. She said,
[1:17:37 - 1:17:44] ▶
problem. Who doesn't? She's not probably. And I said, I don't know about this. I don't know about
[1:17:44 - 1:17:51] ▶
Mori. So, um, but we kind of liked him and he was sticking around and he was giving us pretty good
[1:17:51 - 1:17:57] ▶
information about, um, he was giving information about my mother's dead relatives who we didn't know.
[1:17:57 - 1:18:03] ▶
So my, you know, he'd give us information and my sister would call my mother and she'd say,
[1:18:04 - 1:18:09] ▶
oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. And um, he said that my one cousin was going to have a
[1:18:09 - 1:18:14] ▶
baby. They've been trying to adopt for years and oh, yeah, they're going to get their girl in March 19th,
[1:18:14 - 1:18:20] ▶
which they did. So he was pretty accurate. But then he would say, oh, and by the way, I am a negative
[1:18:20 - 1:18:26] ▶
spirit. So, um, I went to see Fred Nance Bridge because this astrology woman told my sister,
[1:18:26 - 1:18:35] ▶
we should go see Fred Nance Bridge. So the night before my sister went to see Mance Bridge,
[1:18:35 - 1:18:40] ▶
she was going to have the first session with him. Mori said, I am tonight, I am leaving you forever.
[1:18:40 - 1:18:48] ▶
And he said, oh, you know, by that time, you know, we had him around for about a month. We're like,
[1:18:48 - 1:18:53] ▶
I don't have to leave you. Okay. And I said, and don't tell anybody he's a negative because we really
[1:18:53 - 1:18:59] ▶
liked him. So he said, no, this is it. I'm leaving you forever. So the next night, the next day when
[1:18:59 - 1:19:06] ▶
my sister went to see Fred Nance Bridge, my sister said, I'm channeling through a guide name,
[1:19:06 - 1:19:12] ▶
Mori in Fred Nance Bridge said, no, no, no, no, you're got your, um, you're channeling through a
[1:19:12 - 1:19:18] ▶
guide name, Maurice. Maurice is the positive and Mori is the negative. Address the guide is
[1:19:18 - 1:19:25] ▶
so from that point on, she addressed him as Maurice and Mori did leave her forever.
[1:19:25 - 1:19:31] ▶
Wow. Wow. He's Mori did leave her forever. So he really wasn't bad. He was good. I mean, we liked
[1:19:32 - 1:19:42] ▶
him. He was, we liked him and we're like, oh, you know, you don't have to go and
[1:19:42 - 1:19:46] ▶
So what you're saying is for every positive there's a negative. That's right. Wow. Fascinating stuff.
[1:19:46 - 1:19:53] ▶
That's why it does it. And I thought, well, there's your answer on your negativity.
[1:19:54 - 1:19:58] ▶
Man. There's your answer on your negativity. When they, when they bring you in, is it,
[1:19:58 - 1:20:03] ▶
is it a single remote viewer or do they have, do they bring in a team? No, it's a single remote
[1:20:03 - 1:20:09] ▶
viewer. Single remote viewer. Yeah, you can't work with other remote viewers in the same room
[1:20:09 - 1:20:13] ▶
because you could be picking up with their thinking. I was wondering about that. Yeah, you always,
[1:20:13 - 1:20:18] ▶
yeah, even when there are people working groups, when you go to these metaphysical
[1:20:18 - 1:20:22] ▶
churches or they put, they put psychics in a group and then every psychic will say you could
[1:20:23 - 1:20:29] ▶
be picking up on the other psychics said. So no, it's, you've always go one at a time. Interesting.
[1:20:29 - 1:20:36] ▶
Interesting. Angela, let's take a, let's take a quick break. Okay. And then when we come back,
[1:20:36 - 1:20:43] ▶
I want to talk about, I'd like to ask you about just some, some personal ventures. Maybe that you
[1:20:44 - 1:20:52] ▶
have never shared or that you've gone on. Okay. Thank you.
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We're back from the break, and I wanted to kind of pause on your career for a minute,
[1:24:04 - 1:24:10] ▶
and I wanted to ask you about, you know, maybe some personal ventures that you've used
[1:24:10 - 1:24:19] ▶
And so kind of what I'm, I mean, if I knew how to tap into this, I would, I would, I
[1:24:22 - 1:24:30] ▶
just have so many questions about the past, about religion, about UFOs, about all kinds
[1:24:30 - 1:24:39] ▶
I'm wondering if you use this to, for your own curiosity.
[1:24:40 - 1:24:49] ▶
Oh, yeah, of course, I would, oh, of course, I, yeah, I read it, I would read that
[1:24:49 - 1:24:56] ▶
this thing I could on it.
[1:24:56 - 1:24:58] ▶
Well, I mean, so here's an example.
[1:24:58 - 1:25:05] ▶
I would love to know maybe what, what some of the things that were happening in World
[1:25:05 - 1:25:13] ▶
War II or, or the Bible or just big questions.
[1:25:13 - 1:25:18] ▶
Well, you mean you should psychic abilities to kind of figure it out.
[1:25:18 - 1:25:22] ▶
Sometimes what are some of the things you don't know if you're right though, but you don't
[1:25:24 - 1:25:29] ▶
have the feedback and so you don't know if you're right or whatever.
[1:25:29 - 1:25:32] ▶
So sometimes you have to do, you may be curious about something or think of something and
[1:25:32 - 1:25:38] ▶
maybe try to figure it out.
[1:25:38 - 1:25:39] ▶
And then maybe it'll just do some research.
[1:25:39 - 1:25:42] ▶
Maybe you're thinking was right or maybe you have to look for your feedback to see if
[1:25:42 - 1:25:45] ▶
what you were feeling was right.
[1:25:45 - 1:25:48] ▶
What, what are some of the big questions that you've, I guess what goes on after we leave,
[1:25:50 - 1:25:58] ▶
after we leave this, I guess after a body or physical body, I don't think, I sort of think
[1:25:58 - 1:26:08] ▶
that we sort of go on in some way.
[1:26:08 - 1:26:12] ▶
And I do believe that there, I was born and raised Catholic, but I had to let go, a lot
[1:26:12 - 1:26:18] ▶
of that, I just had to let a lot of that think and go.
[1:26:18 - 1:26:23] ▶
I mean, I like to think that we go on in some way.
[1:26:23 - 1:26:26] ▶
I do believe that there was a man named Jesus that walked the earth.
[1:26:26 - 1:26:31] ▶
And there were other people too that were here to teach lessons.
[1:26:31 - 1:26:38] ▶
And we, but biggest thing was what, you know, what happens after we go on?
[1:26:38 - 1:26:45] ▶
I'm interested to know, do we come in reincarnation?
[1:26:45 - 1:26:49] ▶
I've asked, can't do we come back?
[1:26:49 - 1:26:54] ▶
What do you believe happens when we die?
[1:26:54 - 1:26:58] ▶
I just think you're kind of met, I think you're sort of, you go over with, I believe that
[1:26:58 - 1:27:03] ▶
you go on and that you're reunited with your, with your soul family or with your karma
[1:27:03 - 1:27:10] ▶
The way I understand it is that we come in, we come into, we come into this life with
[1:27:11 - 1:27:17] ▶
Then karma, we have karma, good karma and bad karma.
[1:27:19 - 1:27:22] ▶
So the same people that I was with, I just think that we, somehow we come back and we
[1:27:22 - 1:27:30] ▶
come back with the same people.
[1:27:30 - 1:27:32] ▶
I believe in real, yeah, I do.
[1:27:33 - 1:27:35] ▶
What, what, what is a karma group?
[1:27:35 - 1:27:37] ▶
Well, it's the same, like in other words, the people you know now, you knew before in
[1:27:37 - 1:27:42] ▶
Did you ever go somewhere and just felt like, like you knew somebody or that you've been
[1:27:43 - 1:27:48] ▶
You know, that's, I've known you, yeah, that's, yeah.
[1:27:50 - 1:27:55] ▶
What do you, what do you think Deja Vu is?
[1:27:55 - 1:28:00] ▶
Do you remember, do you remember, remembering of a past life?
[1:28:00 - 1:28:04] ▶
Do you think it's the remembering of a past life?
[1:28:04 - 1:28:06] ▶
Yeah, it happened before either you were at that place.
[1:28:06 - 1:28:09] ▶
I felt like I had that with a couple of my animals.
[1:28:09 - 1:28:19] ▶
Why do you think that?
[1:28:19 - 1:28:24] ▶
Why do I think what?
[1:28:24 - 1:28:25] ▶
Why do you think that we travel with a karma group?
[1:28:25 - 1:28:36] ▶
Because it just makes, because we have things to work out with them, I guess.
[1:28:36 - 1:28:42] ▶
Who would be in that karma group?
[1:28:42 - 1:28:45] ▶
Friends, relatives, friends, people that you meet all through your life.
[1:28:45 - 1:28:49] ▶
You know, I just, everybody that you know, everybody that you know, everybody in the
[1:28:49 - 1:28:57] ▶
Earth sphere of, I think it was explained to me like, you know, you've got one million
[1:28:57 - 1:29:04] ▶
people who leave this earth and then one million people come down to replace the one million
[1:29:04 - 1:29:09] ▶
Do we immediately come back?
[1:29:10 - 1:29:13] ▶
I don't know, I don't know.
[1:29:13 - 1:29:14] ▶
I don't, I don't think so.
[1:29:14 - 1:29:15] ▶
I think you kind of have to wait for your karma group to figure out, you know, you know,
[1:29:15 - 1:29:21] ▶
if you come back this time, are you going to be my mother or my sister or my father or?
[1:29:21 - 1:29:27] ▶
Why do you think that we come back?
[1:29:27 - 1:29:29] ▶
What, what have you experienced that makes you believe that?
[1:29:29 - 1:29:33] ▶
Probably to, to get better into whatever errors we have, try to replace them.
[1:29:33 - 1:29:40] ▶
Why we, there's a reason why we come back.
[1:29:40 - 1:29:43] ▶
We need to learn more love.
[1:29:43 - 1:29:44] ▶
Do we need to learn more patience?
[1:29:44 - 1:29:46] ▶
Have you, if you had any experiences that solidify your beliefs?
[1:29:51 - 1:29:59] ▶
I mean, I can't, I can't, I don't have any scientific evidence.
[1:30:00 - 1:30:05] ▶
I did have a, I did have one woman put me through a past life and I don't know if it's
[1:30:05 - 1:30:12] ▶
It was sort of like a hypnotic state where you kind of go and visualize a past life and
[1:30:13 - 1:30:19] ▶
I think I was in Nova Scotia growing wheat.
[1:30:19 - 1:30:22] ▶
But I remember also there was a religion there that was very strict.
[1:30:25 - 1:30:35] ▶
I can remember in whatever, under that session, I remembered being longing to an organized
[1:30:35 - 1:30:42] ▶
religion that was very strict.
[1:30:42 - 1:30:46] ▶
And so when I came out of that, I probably figured, well, the Catholic religion that I grew
[1:30:46 - 1:30:52] ▶
up with probably, you know, that energy was probably coming from that energy from that
[1:30:52 - 1:31:01] ▶
And so somehow I just, maybe I cleared myself off it in this life.
[1:31:03 - 1:31:09] ▶
Have you, if you looked into, have you tried to look into religion at all, such as the
[1:31:09 - 1:31:18] ▶
Do you have, do you not want to talk about that?
[1:31:22 - 1:31:30] ▶
Do you want to talk about, you had mentioned you had had a UFO experience?
[1:31:38 - 1:31:42] ▶
Yeah, but I was 13 years old.
[1:31:42 - 1:31:46] ▶
This was another thing too that it happened to me.
[1:31:46 - 1:31:51] ▶
We were playing, a bunch of us kids.
[1:31:51 - 1:31:53] ▶
We were playing baseball.
[1:31:53 - 1:31:55] ▶
It was a spring day.
[1:31:55 - 1:31:56] ▶
And it was, it was right at that time that, you know, the day goes into, it was dusk where
[1:31:56 - 1:32:04] ▶
the day goes into the darkness.
[1:32:04 - 1:32:06] ▶
So we had to quit playing baseball.
[1:32:06 - 1:32:08] ▶
So we were walking across the baseball field and we heard this.
[1:32:08 - 1:32:13] ▶
And we saw an identified object.
[1:32:13 - 1:32:16] ▶
It was green light with the ring around it and it just went over us.
[1:32:16 - 1:32:22] ▶
So we screamed and we yelled and people came out and they pointed to the object.
[1:32:22 - 1:32:28] ▶
So yeah, I did have a UFO experience and said that, that all kind of lead you into thinking
[1:32:28 - 1:32:34] ▶
If you looked into any more UFO type stuff or extraterrestrial, I spoke with Joe about
[1:32:40 - 1:32:48] ▶
this and he had, he had, I don't remember the date, but it was, I don't remember the
[1:32:48 - 1:32:59] ▶
It was BC and they wanted him to remove you Mars.
[1:33:00 - 1:33:05] ▶
And he had removed you some type of a pyramid that, that are you familiar with this?
[1:33:05 - 1:33:14] ▶
We had removed you Mars.
[1:33:14 - 1:33:15] ▶
I'm just going to throw an arbitrary number out.
[1:33:15 - 1:33:17] ▶
It's probably not 10,000 BC, but I'm just throwing a number out and he had removed you Mars
[1:33:19 - 1:33:24] ▶
and and it is experienced basically, if I remember correctly, there was pyramids and it looked
[1:33:24 - 1:33:34] ▶
like people were evading something and they were using that as some type of a, some type
[1:33:34 - 1:33:39] ▶
of a protective shelter.
[1:33:39 - 1:33:44] ▶
If you removed you, if you removed anything in space.
[1:33:44 - 1:33:50] ▶
Yes, but yes, but I don't, but I didn't trust the, no, but I don't trust the information
[1:33:50 - 1:33:57] ▶
because I was, remote viewing Mars, but I didn't trust the information or the feedback because
[1:33:57 - 1:34:04] ▶
I don't think it was known at the time.
[1:34:04 - 1:34:07] ▶
What did you, what was the feedback?
[1:34:07 - 1:34:13] ▶
I can't even remember, but it didn't make sense.
[1:34:13 - 1:34:16] ▶
It was it, it was it, it was it for me.
[1:34:17 - 1:34:20] ▶
There was, there was one guy there.
[1:34:20 - 1:34:22] ▶
He wanted everybody to remote view Mars, but the protocol, he would, it wasn't good.
[1:34:22 - 1:34:29] ▶
It just was, it was a, it wasn't a clean protocol and I just didn't trust the, and I don't
[1:34:29 - 1:34:34] ▶
even remember because I don't trust the session and I don't trust the information.
[1:34:34 - 1:34:39] ▶
So you don't trust anything unless you get, unless you get the feedback?
[1:34:39 - 1:34:43] ▶
What in remote viewing, yeah.
[1:34:43 - 1:34:45] ▶
Or the in remote viewing.
[1:34:45 - 1:34:47] ▶
But see a lot of this stuff like a lot of times I read or I have my own personal feelings
[1:34:47 - 1:34:52] ▶
on stuff, but I don't know, but I kind of have my own feeling on things, how things
[1:34:52 - 1:34:57] ▶
But you know, in the psychic world, if I'm performing, I would need the feedback, even
[1:34:59 - 1:35:05] ▶
if I give psychic readings, you just, it's sort of I kind of have to take what my thoughts
[1:35:05 - 1:35:11] ▶
or what my beliefs are, I just take it out of the equation.
[1:35:11 - 1:35:15] ▶
Is that hard for you to do?
[1:35:15 - 1:35:17] ▶
No, because I just, I know what I believe and I just know what you can, what I can't.
[1:35:17 - 1:35:27] ▶
Why do you believe what you believe?
[1:35:27 - 1:35:30] ▶
It, to me, it makes sense.
[1:35:33 - 1:35:36] ▶
To me, it, it makes sense.
[1:35:36 - 1:35:39] ▶
It, it, I, I had a lot of questions about.
[1:35:39 - 1:35:49] ▶
Why I felt certain things or why I thought a certain way.
[1:35:49 - 1:35:52] ▶
And when I started to study about reincarnation or what I said, it closed up a lot of answers
[1:35:52 - 1:35:58] ▶
It just, it, it just made, I didn't believe in reincarnation at first because I was born
[1:36:00 - 1:36:07] ▶
But once I overcame that hurdle and believe and started saying this could be possible, I
[1:36:08 - 1:36:16] ▶
even, I, I, my psych, I even, I even, I even opened up more psychically.
[1:36:16 - 1:36:22] ▶
It was like I had to get that belief system.
[1:36:22 - 1:36:24] ▶
It just, it just was another, it was just made somehow on some level.
[1:36:24 - 1:36:31] ▶
It made sense that it just opened me up more.
[1:36:31 - 1:36:34] ▶
I know that makes sense.
[1:36:37 - 1:36:40] ▶
I guess energy doesn't die.
[1:36:40 - 1:36:42] ▶
You know, we can come back.
[1:36:42 - 1:36:44] ▶
Have you had any visions of past lives?
[1:36:44 - 1:36:48] ▶
Well, I had the one woman, like I said, with the Nova Scotia, but that was like a hypnotherapist.
[1:36:48 - 1:36:54] ▶
She kind of put me under.
[1:36:54 - 1:36:57] ▶
But yeah, I feel like I may have been in England at some point, but I do, I do, I have, I
[1:36:57 - 1:37:03] ▶
I, God, that dog, just, I felt a pat.
[1:37:05 - 1:37:09] ▶
I just knew I went through something with that dog and I have a cat now that I just
[1:37:09 - 1:37:15] ▶
feel like I, I just feel it, it's just something you feel.
[1:37:15 - 1:37:18] ▶
I guess you can't, you just can't.
[1:37:18 - 1:37:22] ▶
You sent into a ship.
[1:37:22 - 1:37:24] ▶
But there are certain things I like to watch on certain things that I watch or I'm attracted
[1:37:25 - 1:37:31] ▶
to or even in my often wonder, well, if I have a strong or
[1:37:31 - 1:37:35] ▶
attraction to something or if I'm obsessed with something, maybe I'll do some research
[1:37:35 - 1:37:42] ▶
And I think, well, maybe, maybe there's a connection there, but I don't know what it is for sure.
[1:37:43 - 1:37:52] ▶
You had mentioned, when you had mentioned, I can't remember if it was on a break or if
[1:37:52 - 1:37:57] ▶
it was earlier on today's interview, but you had mentioned that you believe we all have
[1:37:57 - 1:38:02] ▶
Or guides or guides.
[1:38:04 - 1:38:07] ▶
Where do those come from?
[1:38:07 - 1:38:09] ▶
I guess from the heavenly realms, from the invisible realms.
[1:38:09 - 1:38:13] ▶
You know, they call it beyond the veil or the veil.
[1:38:13 - 1:38:18] ▶
I guess there's just a veil that kind of separates the seat.
[1:38:18 - 1:38:23] ▶
We see things here, but it's just a thin veil to see into the other realms.
[1:38:23 - 1:38:29] ▶
And I think that's where they come from.
[1:38:29 - 1:38:32] ▶
Do you believe in a higher power?
[1:38:32 - 1:38:35] ▶
Yeah, I think that there is.
[1:38:36 - 1:38:38] ▶
Yeah, and I think that God gives us a lot of free will.
[1:38:38 - 1:38:43] ▶
And I think that man makes, oh, you know, I think God gives us a lot of free will.
[1:38:43 - 1:38:49] ▶
And that man kind maybe, like, just keeps doing what we're doing.
[1:38:49 - 1:39:00] ▶
What about extraterrestrials?
[1:39:01 - 1:39:05] ▶
Yeah, like I said, I had the experience.
[1:39:05 - 1:39:11] ▶
I had the UFO experience.
[1:39:11 - 1:39:14] ▶
And whenever I moved into Washington, DC, I lived in an apartment in Washington, DC.
[1:39:14 - 1:39:21] ▶
And I was a living, and I had a woman friend who was, she must have been about 20, 30 years
[1:39:21 - 1:39:27] ▶
And I needed to move into Washington, DC.
[1:39:29 - 1:39:34] ▶
And so she brought me to this apartment complex where she used to live.
[1:39:34 - 1:39:38] ▶
And so my sister and I lived in this apartment and it was small.
[1:39:38 - 1:39:44] ▶
So one day the landlord said that our neighbors were moving out.
[1:39:44 - 1:39:48] ▶
We could have the larger apartment, which we took.
[1:39:48 - 1:39:51] ▶
Well my girlfriend called me up, my woman friend, and she said, I used to live in that apartment.
[1:39:51 - 1:39:56] ▶
That's where I used to live.
[1:39:56 - 1:39:58] ▶
So one time, one night I got a little ring outside and she said, my friends are here.
[1:39:58 - 1:40:06] ▶
We want to come up and see the apartment so she came up.
[1:40:06 - 1:40:11] ▶
And she said, oh, you still live here and this, you know, your bedroom was where my, the
[1:40:11 - 1:40:15] ▶
So she was with a woman named Madeline.
[1:40:16 - 1:40:19] ▶
And Madeline said, Ruth, do you remember what happened in this apartment?
[1:40:19 - 1:40:26] ▶
And she said, this was where the first film of UFOs were shown.
[1:40:27 - 1:40:32] ▶
And this Madeline worked for an Egyptian researcher named the Dammsky.
[1:40:32 - 1:40:37] ▶
And the Dammsky was, he researched UFOs and artifacts.
[1:40:37 - 1:40:41] ▶
And they showed the first film of UFOs was shown in the apartment that I lived in.
[1:40:41 - 1:40:47] ▶
I mean, that's not an accident.
[1:40:48 - 1:40:51] ▶
Do you believe UFOs are, I mean, some people believe it's some type of a spiritual entity.
[1:40:53 - 1:40:59] ▶
And some people believe it's actually nuts and bolts, flying objects with extra terrestrials
[1:40:59 - 1:41:11] ▶
and what do you think that the, I think that the, now if you read the books about civilization,
[1:41:11 - 1:41:20] ▶
aren't they supposed to be here at one time and help build our, in helped?
[1:41:20 - 1:41:24] ▶
They're, I think they're here to help us or they're supposed to help us.
[1:41:24 - 1:41:28] ▶
Didn't they come here and kind of at the beginning of Earth?
[1:41:31 - 1:41:34] ▶
They said when Earth was and so, I guess they were trying to help.
[1:41:34 - 1:41:41] ▶
They had visited Earth before and they were to help, they helped mankind is from what
[1:41:41 - 1:41:46] ▶
I mean, there's all kinds of theories out there.
[1:41:48 - 1:41:51] ▶
So, you know, I believe what I believe, but there's, there is definitely lots of, of theories
[1:41:52 - 1:42:00] ▶
out there about, you know, the pyramids, stone heads, all Easter Island, all of these
[1:42:00 - 1:42:09] ▶
And it sounds like, you know, I've interviewed a lot of other people like, are you familiar
[1:42:10 - 1:42:15] ▶
with Randall Carlson by chance?
[1:42:15 - 1:42:17] ▶
No, what's it, what's it?
[1:42:17 - 1:42:19] ▶
Randall basically, you know, in a very dumb, down version, he thinks that the, the, basically
[1:42:19 - 1:42:30] ▶
that the Earth resets and that there were older civilizations that went extinct that were
[1:42:30 - 1:42:41] ▶
possibly way more advanced than anything that we have now.
[1:42:41 - 1:42:45] ▶
And it's like a, it's just a big, it's,
[1:42:45 - 1:42:47] ▶
it's almost like, sounds like kind of like reincarnation.
[1:42:47 - 1:42:50] ▶
I like it, we would that, a reset, I like that.
[1:42:50 - 1:42:53] ▶
I like that, that makes sense.
[1:42:54 - 1:42:57] ▶
Have you ever remote viewed anything such as that?
[1:42:57 - 1:43:03] ▶
The lost city of Atlantis.
[1:43:03 - 1:43:07] ▶
I think I did one time, but I thought I was underwater a lot.
[1:43:07 - 1:43:10] ▶
Did it go underwater?
[1:43:10 - 1:43:13] ▶
Well, nobody's found it.
[1:43:15 - 1:43:16] ▶
Okay, because I thought I was underwater.
[1:43:16 - 1:43:18] ▶
Well, I have not, Atlantis, but, oh, the Stonehenge remote view, Stonehenge, I felt like
[1:43:23 - 1:43:39] ▶
that was the, in the pyramids, I felt like there was some type of supernatural helper
[1:43:39 - 1:43:46] ▶
energy there on both of those.
[1:43:46 - 1:43:48] ▶
Stonehenge in the, the Egyptian pyramid.
[1:43:50 - 1:43:53] ▶
Is that, is that something that you remote viewed or is that?
[1:43:54 - 1:43:57] ▶
Yeah, I remote viewed and I felt like they were, there was supernatural energy or help
[1:43:57 - 1:44:02] ▶
to put these things in place.
[1:44:02 - 1:44:03] ▶
Can you describe that experience?
[1:44:03 - 1:44:06] ▶
Um, it was very expanding.
[1:44:06 - 1:44:11] ▶
I felt like the energy was very expanding and I felt there was a lot of knowledge.
[1:44:11 - 1:44:15] ▶
And I felt there was a lot of light and goodness.
[1:44:15 - 1:44:23] ▶
It was a time of learning.
[1:44:23 - 1:44:25] ▶
It, especially with the Egyptian, I felt like there was, it, you know, it was very
[1:44:25 - 1:44:32] ▶
It was a time of learning.
[1:44:33 - 1:44:36] ▶
Um, I felt it was good energy.
[1:44:36 - 1:44:39] ▶
It was all good energy.
[1:44:39 - 1:44:40] ▶
What are some personal ventures that really stick out in your mind?
[1:44:44 - 1:44:50] ▶
Do you mean in remote viewing?
[1:44:50 - 1:44:54] ▶
You mean in remote viewing, helping other people or remote viewing?
[1:44:55 - 1:45:01] ▶
Something that's not on the job.
[1:45:01 - 1:45:02] ▶
Oh, how I help somebody?
[1:45:02 - 1:45:05] ▶
Your extracurricular, whether it's, whether it's, it's, you're trying to answer your own
[1:45:05 - 1:45:10] ▶
curiosity or it could be helping somebody?
[1:45:10 - 1:45:14] ▶
I did help somebody once.
[1:45:16 - 1:45:19] ▶
I did help somebody once.
[1:45:19 - 1:45:22] ▶
And it's, it's a funny story and I lost his number, but I got a, I got a course, I got
[1:45:22 - 1:45:28] ▶
a call one night from a guy from New York.
[1:45:28 - 1:45:30] ▶
I don't know how he got my number, but he was an older gentleman.
[1:45:30 - 1:45:35] ▶
And um, and this is a fun, I mean, this, this is just, he called me up and he called
[1:45:35 - 1:45:40] ▶
me up and he said, I've never been married.
[1:45:40 - 1:45:42] ▶
He said, I want to be married.
[1:45:42 - 1:45:43] ▶
He says, I want to have children.
[1:45:43 - 1:45:46] ▶
And I, and I guess I'm going to have to marry somebody younger because he really wanted
[1:45:46 - 1:45:50] ▶
So he said, do you think I'm going to be married?
[1:45:52 - 1:45:55] ▶
I said, I think you're going to get married.
[1:45:55 - 1:45:57] ▶
He goes, well, where am I going to meet my wife?
[1:45:57 - 1:45:59] ▶
Oh, and, and he said, how am I going to meet my wife?
[1:45:59 - 1:46:02] ▶
And, and I just said she's your neighbor.
[1:46:02 - 1:46:06] ▶
And he could hear me.
[1:46:06 - 1:46:07] ▶
I'm going to go, and he could hear me go.
[1:46:07 - 1:46:09] ▶
And that, what are you talking about?
[1:46:09 - 1:46:11] ▶
She's, I'm thinking of my neighbor.
[1:46:12 - 1:46:13] ▶
I don't have a neighbor I can meet.
[1:46:13 - 1:46:15] ▶
So, you know, by that time I'm just getting, um, he says, I'm going to go one line and
[1:46:16 - 1:46:21] ▶
I'm going to find a grass that, okay, go one line.
[1:46:21 - 1:46:24] ▶
I didn't even, you know, it was like a 10 minute conversation that I, you know, I didn't
[1:46:24 - 1:46:29] ▶
even charge him money.
[1:46:29 - 1:46:31] ▶
So about three months later he calls me up and he goes, hey, I'm, I go one line, nothing's
[1:46:31 - 1:46:38] ▶
I'm going to get married.
[1:46:39 - 1:46:40] ▶
I go, you're going to get married.
[1:46:40 - 1:46:41] ▶
And he goes, who am I going to marry?
[1:46:41 - 1:46:43] ▶
I go, you're going to marry your neighbor.
[1:46:43 - 1:46:45] ▶
And he goes, what are you talking about?
[1:46:45 - 1:46:48] ▶
So we argue and we argue.
[1:46:49 - 1:46:51] ▶
And he's did this a couple of times.
[1:46:51 - 1:46:54] ▶
So one time he called, and I, he goes, this is Abe.
[1:46:54 - 1:46:59] ▶
And he heard me take a breath.
[1:46:59 - 1:47:01] ▶
Like, oh no, here we go again.
[1:47:01 - 1:47:03] ▶
And he goes, please, please, don't hang up.
[1:47:03 - 1:47:05] ▶
He goes, please, don't hang up.
[1:47:05 - 1:47:07] ▶
He said, he goes, guess what?
[1:47:07 - 1:47:09] ▶
I go, he goes, I'm getting married.
[1:47:10 - 1:47:12] ▶
I said, who you're marrying?
[1:47:12 - 1:47:13] ▶
He said, my neighbor.
[1:47:13 - 1:47:15] ▶
So I said, so I said, so tell, he said there was a school that he, one of, he lived next
[1:47:15 - 1:47:26] ▶
to a school or a college or something.
[1:47:26 - 1:47:29] ▶
And apparently the girl was going to school there or something.
[1:47:29 - 1:47:32] ▶
So it was his neighbor who, and then she happened to be his sister's neighbor.
[1:47:32 - 1:47:37] ▶
So, you know, but anyway, but I could, he could tell by that time I was ready to hang
[1:47:37 - 1:47:44] ▶
up the phone with him.
[1:47:44 - 1:47:46] ▶
And he goes, please, don't hang up.
[1:47:46 - 1:47:48] ▶
But I wanted to stay in contact with him, but to find out if he ever had children, but
[1:47:58 - 1:48:05] ▶
Before we move on with your career also, we had a, I wanted to save, I kind of, I kind
[1:48:10 - 1:48:17] ▶
of cut it on the break, but you, we were talking about other dimensions.
[1:48:17 - 1:48:21] ▶
How would you describe other dimensions?
[1:48:21 - 1:48:25] ▶
I mean, I guess they're just other.
[1:48:29 - 1:48:37] ▶
I mean, how can, um, sometimes if you look up at the stars at night, I mean, that's kind
[1:48:41 - 1:48:48] ▶
I would feel like that would be a different dimension.
[1:48:51 - 1:48:54] ▶
Well, what you were describing was, it sounded like your mother.
[1:48:54 - 1:49:02] ▶
My mother would, um, I have no idea how to even explain this, but she would, um, as she
[1:49:03 - 1:49:12] ▶
got older and like, my mother was very, she was very psychic.
[1:49:12 - 1:49:16] ▶
And as she got older in life, she would call me up and she would say, she was, you
[1:49:16 - 1:49:21] ▶
know, she was coming home from shopping or from grocery shopping and that she would make
[1:49:21 - 1:49:26] ▶
a right, you know, she would turn on the road to come home and she would, so she would turn
[1:49:26 - 1:49:31] ▶
on the road and then she would be somewhere and she said that she would, she would, um,
[1:49:31 - 1:49:38] ▶
be there and she would, you know, she would see beautiful stars or she'd see a beautiful
[1:49:38 - 1:49:44] ▶
scenery and then she would sit there for a while and then she would drive home and then
[1:49:44 - 1:49:49] ▶
that would hit her later that were, that wherever she turned, there was no road.
[1:49:49 - 1:49:56] ▶
So what was she doing?
[1:49:56 - 1:49:57] ▶
She was going up, she had to be going into another dimension or something.
[1:49:57 - 1:50:02] ▶
So you, she's saying she was physically in another dimension?
[1:50:02 - 1:50:06] ▶
She had to have been because there were, and she, and when I would go home to visit her,
[1:50:06 - 1:50:11] ▶
she would say, this is where I turned and there would be, there would be no road, it
[1:50:11 - 1:50:15] ▶
would be corn fields.
[1:50:15 - 1:50:18] ▶
What would, what would she experience there?
[1:50:19 - 1:50:21] ▶
She said, oh, it was beautiful.
[1:50:22 - 1:50:24] ▶
She said that she felt a lot of peace, a lot of love.
[1:50:24 - 1:50:27] ▶
She felt energized and she would have to remind herself that she would have to, oh, she
[1:50:27 - 1:50:34] ▶
would kind of get shocked.
[1:50:34 - 1:50:35] ▶
Oh, yeah, I better get home.
[1:50:35 - 1:50:38] ▶
And that happened to her a couple of times.
[1:50:38 - 1:50:41] ▶
Have you experienced other dimensions?
[1:50:42 - 1:50:45] ▶
But in a different way?
[1:50:48 - 1:50:51] ▶
Sometimes head wise, I feel in some place else.
[1:50:51 - 1:50:56] ▶
Sometimes, I don't, not like she did, but sometimes I feel, I don't know, sometimes
[1:50:56 - 1:51:03] ▶
I feel like the planet's moving sometimes.
[1:51:03 - 1:51:06] ▶
What do you mean by that?
[1:51:06 - 1:51:07] ▶
You can feel the planets move.
[1:51:07 - 1:51:10] ▶
I don't know, they just move sometimes.
[1:51:12 - 1:51:17] ▶
I don't know, sometimes I feel like my head's just, I don't know.
[1:51:17 - 1:51:21] ▶
Is, I'm sorry, I'm bombarding you with questions right now.
[1:51:21 - 1:51:30] ▶
Would you say that psychic abilities are a form of advanced intuition, like a gut feeling.
[1:51:30 - 1:51:45] ▶
Like let me give an example.
[1:51:45 - 1:51:47] ▶
So you're kind of talking about reading energy.
[1:51:47 - 1:51:52] ▶
Entering a room, an unknown room on a, on a target.
[1:52:01 - 1:52:06] ▶
And I'm clear in the room.
[1:52:06 - 1:52:15] ▶
You can feel an energy in there.
[1:52:15 - 1:52:17] ▶
You can feel who's good, who's bad.
[1:52:17 - 1:52:24] ▶
And so you, you, you enter into kind of somewhat of a flow state.
[1:52:24 - 1:52:29] ▶
And it becomes a very intuitive experience.
[1:52:29 - 1:52:38] ▶
And I've talked to several former colleagues of mine and everybody kind of says the same
[1:52:38 - 1:52:44] ▶
You're reading energy and you're, you're feeling the room and it's, it's, it's intuition.
[1:52:45 - 1:52:52] ▶
Some of it, it's a gut feeling, you know, or when you're in a place and you feel like
[1:52:52 - 1:53:00] ▶
something bad is about to happen.
[1:53:00 - 1:53:02] ▶
Sometimes people get a gut feeling.
[1:53:02 - 1:53:04] ▶
Is that similar to, it's exactly what it is.
[1:53:04 - 1:53:08] ▶
And probably you're high, you're working at a higher level than intuition.
[1:53:08 - 1:53:14] ▶
If you're going into a situation and have to, you know, figure out who's good, who's
[1:53:14 - 1:53:18] ▶
bad and you're in a room, it's, it's higher than intuition.
[1:53:18 - 1:53:21] ▶
Now, they found that a lot of people in the investigative, investigative work, like a
[1:53:22 - 1:53:29] ▶
lot of cops, they developed that sixth sense.
[1:53:29 - 1:53:33] ▶
Like all of a sudden they'll, they'll solve a case all on a hunch.
[1:53:33 - 1:53:39] ▶
You know, and, and, and sometimes a lot of, they don't want to talk about it because
[1:53:39 - 1:53:47] ▶
they're afraid they're going to be laughed at.
[1:53:47 - 1:53:50] ▶
But yeah, a lot of investigative people, probably a lot of Navy SEALs, especially you, you
[1:53:50 - 1:53:55] ▶
develop that, you develop that.
[1:53:55 - 1:53:58] ▶
That's, you have to develop that to survive.
[1:53:58 - 1:54:01] ▶
So you're probably doing that, that's more than intuition.
[1:54:01 - 1:54:08] ▶
It's, it's a, you're, it's, you're operating at a higher, it's more than, but always listen
[1:54:08 - 1:54:17] ▶
I've learned that the hard way several times.
[1:54:21 - 1:54:23] ▶
Yeah, and I've, and I've gone, like, yeah, me too.
[1:54:23 - 1:54:27] ▶
And I, yeah, that happens.
[1:54:27 - 1:54:30] ▶
Yeah, yeah, I've gone against just, every time I go against it, I regret it.
[1:54:30 - 1:54:36] ▶
And so I really try not to do that now, no matter, no matter how excited I am about
[1:54:36 - 1:54:42] ▶
an opportunity or, or an individual that I'm about to meet or, or, yeah, you get, I get
[1:54:42 - 1:54:49] ▶
a, I get a feeling about it every once in a while and, and I really try to follow that.
[1:54:49 - 1:54:57] ▶
So can you, is this something that, that you can, can you tap into it or is it just switched
[1:54:57 - 1:55:05] ▶
Um, we mean the intuition.
[1:55:09 - 1:55:13] ▶
I think it works for you whenever, I think it work, I really think it works for you when
[1:55:13 - 1:55:18] ▶
If you walk, if you want to walk through that door and your intuition is telling you, don't
[1:55:20 - 1:55:23] ▶
walk through that door, you know, it's, if it's day, it could scream out, you're really
[1:55:23 - 1:55:27] ▶
Don't, don't walk through that door.
[1:55:28 - 1:55:30] ▶
And if, and if you listen to your intuition, you wouldn't walk through the door.
[1:55:30 - 1:55:34] ▶
I think that, um, I don't, sometimes I think you're, it can, intuition in your psychic
[1:55:34 - 1:55:43] ▶
abilities can be very high.
[1:55:43 - 1:55:46] ▶
And other times, they're not as high, but you can't be psychic all the time at a high
[1:55:46 - 1:55:51] ▶
level because then you're going to be crazy.
[1:55:51 - 1:55:54] ▶
You know, I, in, in, I know there's a lot of naysayers out there about this and I'm, and, and,
[1:55:55 - 1:56:01] ▶
but you know, I think a perfect example of, of this would be the people can, I can't
[1:56:01 - 1:56:13] ▶
say relate to, but if you talk to brief victims, a lot of rape victims had, knew they were
[1:56:13 - 1:56:21] ▶
in a bad situation before it actually happened.
[1:56:21 - 1:56:25] ▶
And, do you know what I'm saying?
[1:56:25 - 1:56:27] ▶
They, they get in and they get a feeling that something's not right and go against their
[1:56:27 - 1:56:35] ▶
And then it happens.
[1:56:36 - 1:56:38] ▶
And so I just, I'm trying to bring more common occurrences up to the audience so that they
[1:56:40 - 1:56:45] ▶
can get, always listen to the gut, begin to wrap their head around what we're, what
[1:56:45 - 1:56:49] ▶
we're speaking about.
[1:56:49 - 1:56:51] ▶
And I, yeah, I, yeah, I think that, I mean, you've had experience where you know, like,
[1:56:53 - 1:57:00] ▶
you think of somebody and they call.
[1:57:00 - 1:57:02] ▶
Or you know, you know, what's in, you go on out to the mail, but you know what's in the
[1:57:03 - 1:57:07] ▶
Yeah, that's intuition.
[1:57:09 - 1:57:11] ▶
And that's all good.
[1:57:11 - 1:57:12] ▶
But I also think to it, it, it works at higher, it can, it's more than that.
[1:57:12 - 1:57:17] ▶
And it, and you can, it's more than that.
[1:57:17 - 1:57:21] ▶
I mean, even the manifestation, how do you manifest something?
[1:57:21 - 1:57:25] ▶
A lot of people are into, yeah, how do you manifest what you need?
[1:57:26 - 1:57:30] ▶
A lot of people, I haven't got that one yet.
[1:57:30 - 1:57:36] ▶
I haven't, do you have, you felt like you've manifest things that you wanted in your life?
[1:57:36 - 1:57:42] ▶
How did you do it visualize or?
[1:57:48 - 1:57:50] ▶
You know, I don't, I don't, I know I've certain, I'm understanding how tough these questions
[1:57:51 - 1:58:01] ▶
can be that I'm asking you.
[1:58:01 - 1:58:02] ▶
I don't know how to describe it.
[1:58:02 - 1:58:05] ▶
I do believe I've manifested things.
[1:58:05 - 1:58:07] ▶
I believe I've manifested.
[1:58:07 - 1:58:10] ▶
I believe that I've manifested certain things within my family.
[1:58:10 - 1:58:16] ▶
I believe I've manifested certain things within business.
[1:58:16 - 1:58:21] ▶
I believe I've manifested things not even realizing that I've manifested them.
[1:58:21 - 1:58:26] ▶
And if you'd like, I could give you a couple of examples.
[1:58:26 - 1:58:29] ▶
So it's interesting because me and Laura, who you met, we're having a discussion about
[1:58:30 - 1:58:37] ▶
If, if this is all real, I mean, it's, you know, it's a controversial subject.
[1:58:38 - 1:58:42] ▶
And I said, I think that I absolutely believe that it's real because we don't understand,
[1:58:42 - 1:58:50] ▶
we only use 10% of our brains supposedly.
[1:58:50 - 1:58:54] ▶
We don't understand consciousness.
[1:58:54 - 1:58:56] ▶
And I think we're capable of so much more than we have any, we put the limitations on
[1:58:56 - 1:59:01] ▶
Everybody, there's the old saying, you know, that there are no limits.
[1:59:03 - 1:59:10] ▶
No matter who you are, you're putting some sort of limitation on yourself.
[1:59:13 - 1:59:16] ▶
You could be the wealthiest man in the world.
[1:59:16 - 1:59:19] ▶
Well, I still think that there are limitations in his head that are keeping him from achieving
[1:59:19 - 1:59:27] ▶
other goals, maybe not financial, maybe not business.
[1:59:27 - 1:59:30] ▶
But anyways, so some examples would be, here's an accidental one that I think may have
[1:59:30 - 1:59:39] ▶
Proposed to my wife, I did it in Alaska.
[1:59:41 - 1:59:45] ▶
And I wanted to, I went there to work with a former seal named Jeff Reed, who's an
[1:59:45 - 1:59:52] ▶
I did a rod racer now.
[1:59:52 - 1:59:56] ▶
And I went up to shoot some content with him for YouTube.
[1:59:56 - 2:00:04] ▶
And when we went up there, I wanted to, it was also a vacation for me and my girlfriend
[2:00:05 - 2:00:11] ▶
And who's now my wife.
[2:00:13 - 2:00:14] ▶
And I told Jeff when we got there, I said, hey, I want to propose to my wife here and
[2:00:14 - 2:00:21] ▶
I want to do it under the Northern Lights.
[2:00:21 - 2:00:23] ▶
Having no idea that, and this is in August, had no idea that Northern Lights never show
[2:00:23 - 2:00:31] ▶
And I believe he said, you'll be lucky if the Northern Lights popped in October.
[2:00:33 - 2:00:40] ▶
That would be the earliest time that you'll see him.
[2:00:40 - 2:00:42] ▶
This is Ferra Banks, Alaska.
[2:00:42 - 2:00:45] ▶
Later that night, that same night that I told, and I thought, oh shit, all right, well,
[2:00:45 - 2:00:51] ▶
I guess I'll, maybe I'll get a helicopter tour and do it on top of a glacier and an
[2:00:51 - 2:00:56] ▶
Oli National Park or something like that.
[2:00:56 - 2:00:59] ▶
Well, fast forward, Betty evening, he shoots me a text and says, you're not going to believe
[2:00:59 - 2:01:07] ▶
this, but the Northern Lights are out right now.
[2:01:07 - 2:01:10] ▶
And you got about 15 minutes because they never stay out longer than that.
[2:01:10 - 2:01:14] ▶
And I was like, shit, I had flown my phone crew up and I had to give them a ride from
[2:01:14 - 2:01:19] ▶
And they flew in separately.
[2:01:20 - 2:01:22] ▶
So I went and picked up the first guy, went back, picked up the second guy.
[2:01:22 - 2:01:27] ▶
It's about an hour and a half's time, worth.
[2:01:27 - 2:01:29] ▶
Then they want to tell me all about their European vacation that they went on and my, and
[2:01:29 - 2:01:34] ▶
And I'm freaking out because the Northern Lights are still kicking an hour and a half
[2:01:35 - 2:01:41] ▶
Then it took me about an hour and a half, two hours to find a place to do it.
[2:01:42 - 2:01:46] ▶
When all over the place, the Northern Lights finally kicked off after two, three hours
[2:01:46 - 2:01:52] ▶
of lighting up the sky.
[2:01:52 - 2:01:54] ▶
I finally found my spot.
[2:01:54 - 2:01:57] ▶
They went away and I just thought, God, please just give me just a glimmer so that I can
[2:01:57 - 2:02:06] ▶
just propose to my girlfriend.
[2:02:06 - 2:02:11] ▶
They came back on, she was passed out, I'm waking her up, I'm going, hey, get up.
[2:02:11 - 2:02:17] ▶
We got to get out and propose to her as soon as we kiss the entire sky lit up with the
[2:02:18 - 2:02:24] ▶
And in August, which apparently is next to impossible.
[2:02:27 - 2:02:33] ▶
So you manifested that?
[2:02:33 - 2:02:35] ▶
I have lots more examples of similar things, with every aspect of my life.
[2:02:37 - 2:02:51] ▶
But that was just me thinking fast forward.
[2:02:51 - 2:02:55] ▶
I had psychedelics actually really opened my mind up to all of this.
[2:02:55 - 2:03:02] ▶
And I had, I don't want to get into that now, but that really expanded my mind.
[2:03:02 - 2:03:08] ▶
It made me realize there are so many more possibilities than we can even imagine.
[2:03:08 - 2:03:16] ▶
And then got me into meditation, got me into manifestation.
[2:03:16 - 2:03:21] ▶
And I thought, you know what, I'm just going to concentrate on one thing that I want
[2:03:21 - 2:03:26] ▶
to happen is without having intrusive thoughts into my head.
[2:03:26 - 2:03:32] ▶
So I would start meditating, which I've gotten away from that.
[2:03:32 - 2:03:36] ▶
I would put a rife machine on.
[2:03:36 - 2:03:38] ▶
Do you know what a rife machine is?
[2:03:38 - 2:03:40] ▶
And I would put a rife machine on during my meditation.
[2:03:40 - 2:03:43] ▶
I would let all the thoughts clear my head.
[2:03:43 - 2:03:47] ▶
Like the way it was described to me is think of thoughts like clouds and just let them all
[2:03:47 - 2:03:53] ▶
run through until you're completely at peace.
[2:03:53 - 2:03:58] ▶
And then think of think of what you want.
[2:03:58 - 2:04:03] ▶
And so I would do that.
[2:04:03 - 2:04:05] ▶
And things would start happening.
[2:04:05 - 2:04:10] ▶
So much so that it made me, it's really made me hesitant to vocalize things out loud about
[2:04:10 - 2:04:21] ▶
people that maybe have screwed me over or that I don't like or whatever, because now I'm
[2:04:21 - 2:04:27] ▶
starting, I'm beginning to realize, holy shit, what you throw out into the world might
[2:04:27 - 2:04:34] ▶
And so I've been very hesitant to, I don't wish bad on people anymore and I used to.
[2:04:36 - 2:04:50] ▶
And then I saw some of those things come to fruition as well.
[2:04:50 - 2:04:55] ▶
And I realized how powerful thought can actually be.
[2:04:55 - 2:05:00] ▶
Meditation is very, very powerful.
[2:05:00 - 2:05:05] ▶
Not as much as I should.
[2:05:06 - 2:05:07] ▶
I used to do more, but I think it's very powerful.
[2:05:07 - 2:05:10] ▶
I knew a woman that meditated.
[2:05:11 - 2:05:13] ▶
She said what they, she woke up.
[2:05:13 - 2:05:15] ▶
She says you, it's like your body becomes like a river that you just flow.
[2:05:15 - 2:05:21] ▶
And she said she woke up one morning and she said, I just, I wanted an apple and she
[2:05:21 - 2:05:25] ▶
said 10 minutes later, I was at her door with a bushel of apples.
[2:05:25 - 2:05:32] ▶
But you know, that's just an example.
[2:05:32 - 2:05:34] ▶
Yeah, yeah, it's be careful what you say.
[2:05:35 - 2:05:39] ▶
Yeah, I know about peace.
[2:05:39 - 2:05:42] ▶
Sometimes you just have to feel, I don't even try to, I don't even dislike people anymore.
[2:05:42 - 2:05:47] ▶
I guess they have their own lessons or whatever.
[2:05:50 - 2:05:52] ▶
I'm not quite to that point yet, but I'm working on it.
[2:05:52 - 2:05:56] ▶
There's just so much, I mean, people can be funny sometimes.
[2:05:56 - 2:06:00] ▶
But, well, let's get back to your career at DIA.
[2:06:03 - 2:06:07] ▶
Where did we leave off?
[2:06:08 - 2:06:10] ▶
Well, the program ended in 1995.
[2:06:10 - 2:06:12] ▶
So I was able to, the program ended.
[2:06:12 - 2:06:17] ▶
I had to go back into, I went back to the headquarters at Bullying Air Force Base.
[2:06:17 - 2:06:22] ▶
And I worked as an analyst.
[2:06:22 - 2:06:24] ▶
I worked as a question in Chinese analyst working certain issues.
[2:06:24 - 2:06:30] ▶
What ended the program?
[2:06:31 - 2:06:34] ▶
I think that when Dr. Verona retired, I think we lost a lot of our support.
[2:06:34 - 2:06:40] ▶
And they put, in his replacement was a man who I don't think really wanted the program.
[2:06:40 - 2:06:48] ▶
And we, Dale Graff had retired.
[2:06:48 - 2:06:51] ▶
We lost a lot of support.
[2:06:51 - 2:06:54] ▶
We had a lot of congressional support.
[2:06:54 - 2:06:56] ▶
We had a lot of, we had high support that just went away when certain people retired.
[2:06:56 - 2:07:05] ▶
And the people coming in, they didn't have the curiosity for the learning.
[2:07:05 - 2:07:12] ▶
They didn't have, they didn't have the curiosity to try to learn how we think it works.
[2:07:12 - 2:07:18] ▶
If you go into a session to work an operational target, they were giving you too much information.
[2:07:18 - 2:07:25] ▶
They just, they just hit on us.
[2:07:26 - 2:07:29] ▶
And I think Congress was trying to help us.
[2:07:29 - 2:07:34] ▶
And they thought if we, they could get us to CIA, at least we may have more support.
[2:07:34 - 2:07:42] ▶
Well, when they transferred us to CIA, CIA said they wanted to do a six month study.
[2:07:42 - 2:07:48] ▶
And they did a six month study, but they never, they never gave, whoever did the study,
[2:07:48 - 2:07:55] ▶
they did an out, they called in a company from the outside to do a study to see if ESP works.
[2:07:55 - 2:08:01] ▶
But they never gave them people the clearances so that they could read the operational successes that we had.
[2:08:01 - 2:08:08] ▶
And they came out six months later and says, no, this doesn't work.
[2:08:08 - 2:08:13] ▶
Well, what happened was we were packing up boxes and we were packing up all the information from Fort Mead
[2:08:13 - 2:08:21] ▶
and it ended up in Langley.
[2:08:21 - 2:08:24] ▶
And after they closed the program, I was back at, at bowling working for CIA.
[2:08:24 - 2:08:32] ▶
And I got a call from a guy at the Department of Defense, a policymaker.
[2:08:32 - 2:08:38] ▶
And he said, he wanted to go, he was a policymaker in charge of special access programs.
[2:08:38 - 2:08:46] ▶
And he was curious as to why that program was shut down.
[2:08:46 - 2:08:50] ▶
So he called me up and said, let's go to the CIA and get the documents.
[2:08:50 - 2:08:55] ▶
He wanted to see, he wanted to see the documents to find out why it was shut down whenever he knew there was some good work coming out of there.
[2:08:55 - 2:09:05] ▶
So when we went to retrieve the documents, the documents were never opened.
[2:09:05 - 2:09:11] ▶
So they never let went, the documents were never open for anybody to review them to see if, if, if we were good at, if we ever solved any problems.
[2:09:11 - 2:09:25] ▶
So I think the CIA did not want us.
[2:09:25 - 2:09:28] ▶
And I think the CIA gets blamed for everything.
[2:09:29 - 2:09:32] ▶
No matter what goes wrong, the CIA gets blamed for everything.
[2:09:32 - 2:09:36] ▶
And I think the CIA had that one program back in the 50s and 60s where they were doing mind control on people and giving people LSD.
[2:09:36 - 2:09:51] ▶
And Congress had to stop that.
[2:09:51 - 2:09:53] ▶
And I, and George Tenant was a, was ahead of the CIA at the time.
[2:09:53 - 2:09:59] ▶
And I think he just didn't want to take it on.
[2:09:59 - 2:10:01] ▶
It would have been too much of a headache.
[2:10:01 - 2:10:03] ▶
I think they had to start getting rid of smaller programs.
[2:10:06 - 2:10:10] ▶
There was the downs in there was budget too.
[2:10:10 - 2:10:14] ▶
And so I think CIA must have, I think they got a message from Congress saying, get rid of your small programs or something.
[2:10:14 - 2:10:21] ▶
And they got scared so they just erased them.
[2:10:21 - 2:10:24] ▶
But I do think that we, they did not give the program, I, when they brought in that agency to say whether or not this can be used in an operational mode.
[2:10:24 - 2:10:35] ▶
I don't think that we were given a fair shake because it was used in an operational mode.
[2:10:35 - 2:10:40] ▶
And we've had successes.
[2:10:40 - 2:10:41] ▶
Do you think that the program continued on under a different name at a later date?
[2:10:41 - 2:10:46] ▶
And if it did, it not even,
[2:10:48 - 2:10:50] ▶
when our program existed, we had, it was congressional mandated.
[2:10:50 - 2:10:56] ▶
We had the remote viewers.
[2:10:56 - 2:10:58] ▶
We had the research that we had research going on.
[2:10:58 - 2:11:02] ▶
The government was paying Stanford.
[2:11:02 - 2:11:05] ▶
We had a lot of research money going out.
[2:11:05 - 2:11:08] ▶
And then we had the foreign assessment, meaning we had an analyst looking at what other countries were doing.
[2:11:08 - 2:11:16] ▶
So it was a robust, it was a robust program.
[2:11:16 - 2:11:23] ▶
Plus we needed, so now I, when I went back to, to DIA and worked, a lot of people would say, oh, I remote view and I wrote, and I'm in touch.
[2:11:23 - 2:11:34] ▶
And this is what I get and this is what, I don't know, I don't think there was.
[2:11:34 - 2:11:39] ▶
And even if there was, they weren't doing it in the formal way that was being done.
[2:11:39 - 2:11:45] ▶
And if it was being done, where was the information given to to help people?
[2:11:45 - 2:11:51] ▶
I don't think so, I just don't think so.
[2:11:51 - 2:11:54] ▶
And also, if a program were to exist, at some point they would have had to look at the science.
[2:11:54 - 2:12:02] ▶
And if they would have looked at the science, certain people would have been contacted like Ed May, SRI.
[2:12:02 - 2:12:09] ▶
No, I don't think so.
[2:12:09 - 2:12:10] ▶
A lot of people say, oh, it's going on, it's going on.
[2:12:11 - 2:12:15] ▶
I do think, I do think so.
[2:12:15 - 2:12:18] ▶
Why do you say that?
[2:12:18 - 2:12:19] ▶
Because, because I've had former colleagues tell me that they've seen, they've seen them bring them in.
[2:12:25 - 2:12:38] ▶
Bring them, bring them water.
[2:12:38 - 2:12:41] ▶
And that could be because I met a kid in Florida who said he could move, he could move off, you know,
[2:12:44 - 2:12:51] ▶
he'd been coins and that.
[2:12:51 - 2:12:53] ▶
And I think he was brought in by the CIA.
[2:12:53 - 2:12:56] ▶
But that's not, so that's one thing, but that's not a program.
[2:12:56 - 2:13:01] ▶
I mean, that's, yeah, maybe, maybe so.
[2:13:01 - 2:13:04] ▶
I mean, maybe they do bring people in a newsroom.
[2:13:04 - 2:13:09] ▶
Police agencies bring people, psychics in a newsroom.
[2:13:09 - 2:13:13] ▶
Are the people getting paid, are they getting paid?
[2:13:13 - 2:13:18] ▶
I didn't personally see them, but people that have, that are very close to me that I've worked very close with,
[2:13:19 - 2:13:27] ▶
that I still have relationships with today, have told me about this before I even knew
[2:13:27 - 2:13:34] ▶
what the hell remote viewing was.
[2:13:34 - 2:13:35] ▶
Like, did you see that?
[2:13:36 - 2:13:38] ▶
They just bought removals and I go, what the hell is the real viewer?
[2:13:38 - 2:13:45] ▶
But and now today, I've reached back out and I'm like, I remember when you told me this.
[2:13:45 - 2:13:51] ▶
I mean, I mean, maybe they were, but it still didn't make it, it still didn't make it a,
[2:13:51 - 2:13:58] ▶
I guess we were mandated, I guess.
[2:13:58 - 2:14:01] ▶
You know, we would go to a building and work.
[2:14:01 - 2:14:03] ▶
You bring somebody in, that's different.
[2:14:04 - 2:14:06] ▶
Are you paying them?
[2:14:06 - 2:14:08] ▶
I don't know, I don't have the answers to those questions.
[2:14:11 - 2:14:13] ▶
But I like to move on.
[2:14:13 - 2:14:14] ▶
I know you have, you want to talk about Yuri Geller.
[2:14:14 - 2:14:19] ▶
I have a Yuri Geller story.
[2:14:20 - 2:14:22] ▶
In 2000, I retired from the federal government in 2010.
[2:14:23 - 2:14:29] ▶
Now in 2015, you know, 2014, Annie Jacobson wrote, she interviewed people for her book.
[2:14:29 - 2:14:40] ▶
So I was interviewed by Annie for her book.
[2:14:44 - 2:14:47] ▶
And one night I received an email from her and she was going over some of my training
[2:14:47 - 2:14:53] ▶
And she liked one of my training targets.
[2:14:54 - 2:14:57] ▶
It was the St. Louis arc.
[2:14:57 - 2:15:00] ▶
And she said, and she wanted to use that for the book because I did a good job in remote
[2:15:00 - 2:15:06] ▶
viewing the St. Louis arc.
[2:15:06 - 2:15:09] ▶
So she emailed me and she said, you know, read this.
[2:15:09 - 2:15:15] ▶
I want to put the, you know, what you did about the St. Louis arc in the book.
[2:15:16 - 2:15:19] ▶
And I said, and I emailed her back and I said, yeah, I'll give you information.
[2:15:19 - 2:15:24] ▶
And then she emailed me back and she says, can you do it?
[2:15:24 - 2:15:27] ▶
And now I'm kind of in a hurry.
[2:15:27 - 2:15:29] ▶
I'm leaving for Israel tomorrow.
[2:15:29 - 2:15:31] ▶
I'm going to, uh, Yuri Gowler invited her to his house to come out.
[2:15:31 - 2:15:37] ▶
And I said, well, I thought you already interviewed him because she went to England to interview
[2:15:37 - 2:15:42] ▶
And she said, no, she said, no, I interviewed him in England, but I've never been to
[2:15:44 - 2:15:48] ▶
And he asked me to go, he asked me to go to Israel.
[2:15:49 - 2:15:53] ▶
So I said, well, good for you.
[2:15:53 - 2:15:55] ▶
So I guess while she was over there, so we ended on the note that we were talking about
[2:15:55 - 2:16:00] ▶
the St. Louis, the St. Louis arc, you know, she wanted that information before she left.
[2:16:00 - 2:16:05] ▶
So she went over to Israel and she was spending time with Yuri.
[2:16:05 - 2:16:09] ▶
And at one point she said, um, I want to buy postcards for my family.
[2:16:09 - 2:16:16] ▶
And they were in a t shop.
[2:16:16 - 2:16:18] ▶
So the owner of the t shop came over and he said, my postcards are on that top, are on
[2:16:18 - 2:16:23] ▶
So Yuri Gowler went over, I guess either her or Yuri Gowler went over.
[2:16:24 - 2:16:29] ▶
And I think it was him.
[2:16:29 - 2:16:30] ▶
He reached up on the, um, and I think it was him because he reached up on the shelf and
[2:16:30 - 2:16:36] ▶
he picked out a postcard for her and here it was the St. Louis arc.
[2:16:36 - 2:16:43] ▶
And that's what she, and, and that's what her and I were discussing before she left.
[2:16:43 - 2:16:49] ▶
So when she saw the picture, she knew she identified it with me.
[2:16:49 - 2:16:54] ▶
And she freaked, I guess she kind of freaked out and she said, oh, you're not going to believe
[2:16:55 - 2:16:59] ▶
this, but, um, she was using that this, the St. Louis arc is one of her, um, for information
[2:16:59 - 2:17:08] ▶
So anyway, I think she kind of freaked out.
[2:17:09 - 2:17:12] ▶
So she said, oh, my goodness, why this, of all things, why the St. Louis arc in Israel.
[2:17:12 - 2:17:17] ▶
So anyway, he signed it for me.
[2:17:17 - 2:17:19] ▶
I used this for Angela, much energy and love Yuri Gowler and then he drew a picture.
[2:17:19 - 2:17:24] ▶
So what is the, that's incredible.
[2:17:25 - 2:17:29] ▶
What is the, what was the story behind your remote viewing of the St. Louis arc?
[2:17:29 - 2:17:34] ▶
It was just a training target that I did and I did a very good job.
[2:17:34 - 2:17:38] ▶
And she just wanted to put it in the book like this, you know, this viewer was tasked.
[2:17:39 - 2:17:44] ▶
In other words, the St. Louis arc is an arc and when I remote viewed it, I would, you
[2:17:44 - 2:17:50] ▶
It was just something that she wanted to show in the book and in the book, she describes
[2:17:51 - 2:17:57] ▶
my remote viewing session of the St. Louis arc.
[2:17:57 - 2:18:01] ▶
And when she emailed me, she said, this was an excellent session.
[2:18:01 - 2:18:05] ▶
I want to put it in the book and she needed more information for me about the, say, there
[2:18:05 - 2:18:11] ▶
was nothing significant about it.
[2:18:11 - 2:18:13] ▶
It was just a training target that I remote viewed at one time and that she wanted information
[2:18:13 - 2:18:19] ▶
on it right before she left before she went to meet Yuri Gowler because she was impressed
[2:18:19 - 2:18:24] ▶
So my last conversation with her was about the St. Louis arc.
[2:18:26 - 2:18:31] ▶
So when she would see Yuri and he picked up the, the, the, um, ton of coincidences.
[2:18:31 - 2:18:38] ▶
She, she completely thought of me and she was like, oh my goodness.
[2:18:38 - 2:18:43] ▶
You know, I just a couple of days ago she was discussing this with me.
[2:18:43 - 2:18:47] ▶
I mean, what do you make of stuff like that?
[2:18:48 - 2:18:51] ▶
Does that, does that have to do with the creating your own reality at all?
[2:18:52 - 2:18:57] ▶
I mean, I don't know.
[2:18:59 - 2:19:05] ▶
You and Yuri Gowler, your Yuri Gowler worked together, correct?
[2:19:05 - 2:19:08] ▶
No, I never met him.
[2:19:08 - 2:19:10] ▶
What is the catch the catch spy story?
[2:19:10 - 2:19:13] ▶
What's the story is that I have in my notes.
[2:19:13 - 2:19:20] ▶
Angela helped, excuse me, Scott.
[2:19:20 - 2:19:22] ▶
No, I was on C, I was on CBS Sunday morning news.
[2:19:25 - 2:19:30] ▶
I was interviewed and Yuri was interviewed too for that program, but we weren't interviewed
[2:19:30 - 2:19:34] ▶
So I did have that connection.
[2:19:36 - 2:19:39] ▶
Well that came after the book.
[2:19:39 - 2:19:41] ▶
How did you catch a spy?
[2:19:41 - 2:19:45] ▶
I, this was, I was approached by, after the program ended and I was back at DIA working
[2:19:45 - 2:19:53] ▶
as an analyst, you know, people would approach me to, can you do this?
[2:19:53 - 2:19:58] ▶
Because they knew what I did and sometimes I'd help them.
[2:19:59 - 2:20:03] ▶
Sometimes I wouldn't.
[2:20:03 - 2:20:04] ▶
But I, but there was one man that really wanted help.
[2:20:04 - 2:20:08] ▶
But he, he asked if, if he asked me if I would help him.
[2:20:08 - 2:20:16] ▶
And I think, you know, he got the okay from some higher ups, but we had to do it on private
[2:20:16 - 2:20:22] ▶
We couldn't do it on government time.
[2:20:23 - 2:20:25] ▶
So I was helping this man out.
[2:20:25 - 2:20:27] ▶
Do it was a very sensitive project.
[2:20:27 - 2:20:30] ▶
And I was helping him.
[2:20:31 - 2:20:32] ▶
But whatever information I was getting, I don't know what I was getting because I didn't
[2:20:32 - 2:20:37] ▶
even know what the operation was.
[2:20:37 - 2:20:40] ▶
I gave him some information and he called in a colleague of his by the name of Scott Carmichael.
[2:20:40 - 2:20:47] ▶
And he said, Scott, I have some information here that I know what you're working on.
[2:20:47 - 2:20:53] ▶
And this information may be helpful to, you know, for some of your friends over at the
[2:20:53 - 2:20:57] ▶
State Department by friends, he meant people that he worked with, that share information
[2:20:57 - 2:21:03] ▶
with the State Department.
[2:21:03 - 2:21:05] ▶
And Scott said, well, how did you get this information?
[2:21:05 - 2:21:08] ▶
And the guy in the man said, I got it from a psychic.
[2:21:08 - 2:21:13] ▶
And Scott said, from a psychic, are you crazy?
[2:21:13 - 2:21:16] ▶
I'm not going to go to the State Department and tell them that this information came from
[2:21:16 - 2:21:20] ▶
He said, I wouldn't, I'm not going to do that.
[2:21:22 - 2:21:25] ▶
So anyway, Scott said that he left, but he said, you know, he had this problem.
[2:21:25 - 2:21:33] ▶
He had this case that he just couldn't get out of his mind.
[2:21:33 - 2:21:41] ▶
He just couldn't get out of his mind.
[2:21:41 - 2:21:43] ▶
So he went back to my friend.
[2:21:43 - 2:21:45] ▶
And he said, how do, how does this work?
[2:21:45 - 2:21:51] ▶
So the guy said, well, here, just put what, give, what do you want to know?
[2:21:51 - 2:21:55] ▶
And they'll make up a little envelope and they'll put something in the envelope.
[2:21:55 - 2:21:59] ▶
And they'll mix the envelope in with this guy's stuff.
[2:21:59 - 2:22:02] ▶
And then they'll pick it out.
[2:22:02 - 2:22:03] ▶
And at some point, I would be working on Scott's project.
[2:22:03 - 2:22:07] ▶
So I guess one day I woke up or when they gave me this project.
[2:22:07 - 2:22:12] ▶
And I don't know what I said.
[2:22:12 - 2:22:13] ▶
I identified a guy as, I think Baker, I said, the last name was Baker.
[2:22:13 - 2:22:18] ▶
Maybe the first thing was Jeff.
[2:22:18 - 2:22:21] ▶
And I said he was Australian.
[2:22:21 - 2:22:23] ▶
I said he was Australian and he was going to sell US secrets.
[2:22:23 - 2:22:28] ▶
Well, that came out immediately.
[2:22:28 - 2:22:31] ▶
So Scott came back and he said that was right.
[2:22:31 - 2:22:36] ▶
They said that there was what happened was the United States had a unit in Australia
[2:22:36 - 2:22:44] ▶
that worked with the Australians and they were imagery analysts.
[2:22:44 - 2:22:48] ▶
And I guess one of the imagery analysts tried to sell.
[2:22:48 - 2:22:52] ▶
When you try to sell secrets, you'd never use your real name.
[2:22:52 - 2:22:58] ▶
So they knew his real name wasn't Jeff Baker, but they didn't know who he was.
[2:22:58 - 2:23:03] ▶
So now we know that they knew whatever I said was right.
[2:23:03 - 2:23:08] ▶
But now they came back to me and they said, who was Jeff Baker?
[2:23:08 - 2:23:13] ▶
So I described him as an Australian.
[2:23:13 - 2:23:16] ▶
I said, what do you look like?
[2:23:16 - 2:23:17] ▶
I said his age range.
[2:23:17 - 2:23:19] ▶
I said he was on drugs.
[2:23:19 - 2:23:22] ▶
And I don't know what else I said.
[2:23:22 - 2:23:25] ▶
But so now they kind of had a profile of this person.
[2:23:25 - 2:23:30] ▶
And so now they were trying to look for him.
[2:23:30 - 2:23:34] ▶
Now Scott worked for the FBI because if there's any spies, the FBI always arrest them
[2:23:34 - 2:23:40] ▶
because that's the arresting agency.
[2:23:40 - 2:23:42] ▶
But Scott did not tell the FBI he was working with the psychic
[2:23:42 - 2:23:46] ▶
because he said if it ever went to court,
[2:23:46 - 2:23:48] ▶
it would may have been thrown out because they received information from a psychic.
[2:23:48 - 2:23:54] ▶
So we were kind of going along with the case.
[2:23:54 - 2:23:57] ▶
And Scott didn't think I was doing too good, but in retrospect,
[2:23:57 - 2:24:02] ▶
I don't think they were asking the questions right.
[2:24:02 - 2:24:04] ▶
And he even admitted that.
[2:24:04 - 2:24:05] ▶
But there seemed to be, it seemed to be I did really good at the beginning
[2:24:05 - 2:24:11] ▶
and then things were kind of going and weren't going real good.
[2:24:11 - 2:24:15] ▶
And then I don't know what I said.
[2:24:15 - 2:24:18] ▶
I said there was going to be a meeting that was going to take place.
[2:24:18 - 2:24:21] ▶
I felt that the guy would be apprehended.
[2:24:21 - 2:24:24] ▶
And there was supposed to be a meeting on a certain day.
[2:24:24 - 2:24:29] ▶
Well, now when this kid, when this person went to the Singapore embassy
[2:24:29 - 2:24:36] ▶
to sell the secrets, the Singapore embassy contacted the United States
[2:24:36 - 2:24:43] ▶
and said, there's a guy here trying to sell your secrets.
[2:24:43 - 2:24:46] ▶
So something was set up like a, what do you call one of those plans
[2:24:46 - 2:24:50] ▶
where you try to lure the guy in?
[2:24:50 - 2:24:53] ▶
So at that point, they decided to do a sting operation.
[2:24:54 - 2:24:59] ▶
And at that time, I was kind of losing.
[2:24:59 - 2:25:01] ▶
I really wasn't doing really good at the case.
[2:25:01 - 2:25:03] ▶
But I don't know what happened.
[2:25:03 - 2:25:05] ▶
I was able to provide some information.
[2:25:05 - 2:25:07] ▶
And I can't even remember what it is.
[2:25:07 - 2:25:10] ▶
Scott wrote a kid in a book called unconventional method.
[2:25:10 - 2:25:13] ▶
But at that point, I didn't feel, I felt like this is,
[2:25:13 - 2:25:20] ▶
this isn't, I knew it wasn't going well.
[2:25:20 - 2:25:23] ▶
But Scott came in, the FBI agent asked
[2:25:23 - 2:25:27] ▶
Scott to come in on a Sunday to work.
[2:25:27 - 2:25:30] ▶
They really wanted to work the case.
[2:25:30 - 2:25:32] ▶
And Scott started to read some message traffic.
[2:25:32 - 2:25:36] ▶
And he said, he does whatever I said, whatever scenarios,
[2:25:36 - 2:25:41] ▶
I was describing, this information was in this message traffic.
[2:25:41 - 2:25:48] ▶
And Scott said, I think this guy, his last name was West Pierre.
[2:25:48 - 2:25:54] ▶
Scott said, I think this is our guy.
[2:25:56 - 2:25:59] ▶
That this is the guy we want.
[2:25:59 - 2:26:01] ▶
And the FBI agent said, no, the person we're looking for is Canadian.
[2:26:02 - 2:26:08] ▶
And they went back and forth.
[2:26:08 - 2:26:10] ▶
And Scott kept saying, are you sure he's not Australian?
[2:26:10 - 2:26:14] ▶
And she said, no, he's Canadian.
[2:26:14 - 2:26:16] ▶
So Scott said, well, let me look something up
[2:26:16 - 2:26:19] ▶
because you can have dual citizenship.
[2:26:19 - 2:26:22] ▶
And here the guy had dual citizenship.
[2:26:22 - 2:26:24] ▶
He was Australian and Canadian.
[2:26:24 - 2:26:27] ▶
And here that was the guy that they were able to apprehend.
[2:26:27 - 2:26:32] ▶
What does it feel like to you when you're...
[2:26:35 - 2:26:37] ▶
Oh, I was all happy because I hate to be wrong.
[2:26:37 - 2:26:39] ▶
I'm very happy when I'm right because you're not right all the time.
[2:26:39 - 2:26:45] ▶
It's not always get it.
[2:26:45 - 2:26:47] ▶
I mean, I can remote you and it can be very vague.
[2:26:47 - 2:26:55] ▶
It can be very, very vague.
[2:26:55 - 2:26:58] ▶
It can be very vague.
[2:26:58 - 2:27:01] ▶
And a lot of times you're not right or a lot of times you may feel that you're right,
[2:27:01 - 2:27:05] ▶
but people aren't there to check out the information.
[2:27:05 - 2:27:08] ▶
I'm giving information and it's right and somebody checks it out and it's right and it
[2:27:09 - 2:27:13] ▶
What is your favorite operation that you've been a part of?
[2:27:20 - 2:27:28] ▶
I think the one with the finding the guy in the...
[2:27:28 - 2:27:32] ▶
Finding Charles Jordan, the fugitive.
[2:27:32 - 2:27:36] ▶
He was the customs agent, the drug guy that went bad.
[2:27:36 - 2:27:42] ▶
I think that probably was the biggest because nobody ever thought he would be in Wyoming.
[2:27:42 - 2:27:49] ▶
That I did like doing the hostages because I felt like I was really...
[2:27:49 - 2:27:53] ▶
I felt like my information was acted upon to help them.
[2:27:53 - 2:27:58] ▶
So that made me feel good.
[2:27:58 - 2:28:02] ▶
Can you go into that?
[2:28:05 - 2:28:09] ▶
I'm trying to locate some kids that may have been human trafficking.
[2:28:12 - 2:28:18] ▶
I was able to give some locations, but I don't know if they...
[2:28:21 - 2:28:24] ▶
But I never had any feedback on that.
[2:28:24 - 2:28:26] ▶
So I figured it probably didn't go anywhere.
[2:28:26 - 2:28:29] ▶
But it could have been more of a secret type operation too.
[2:28:29 - 2:28:36] ▶
So now you're teaching at the Monroe Institute?
[2:28:36 - 2:28:39] ▶
Well, I only teach the remote view part too.
[2:28:39 - 2:28:41] ▶
It's, you know, like I only teach twice a year, but it's always nice to connect with Joe.
[2:28:41 - 2:28:48] ▶
Just, oh, you know, Joe.
[2:28:51 - 2:28:52] ▶
Have you ever worked with Joe?
[2:28:54 - 2:28:56] ▶
If you're in the old days?
[2:28:58 - 2:29:00] ▶
No, he retired in 1984 and I came in the unit in 1986.
[2:29:00 - 2:29:05] ▶
But I bet him through Ed May and then I...
[2:29:07 - 2:29:09] ▶
Yeah, he's wonderful.
[2:29:09 - 2:29:10] ▶
I got nothing but good things to say about him and his life.
[2:29:11 - 2:29:16] ▶
Tell me a little bit about the Monroe Institute.
[2:29:18 - 2:29:20] ▶
Bob Monroe was a man.
[2:29:21 - 2:29:23] ▶
I guess he lived in New York City.
[2:29:23 - 2:29:25] ▶
He was a radio personality, I think.
[2:29:25 - 2:29:27] ▶
I don't know if he owned a radio station, but he used to have out of bodies and I guess
[2:29:27 - 2:29:33] ▶
he went to a psychologist because he thought he was crazy and the guy said, no, you're not
[2:29:33 - 2:29:38] ▶
You're having out of body experiences.
[2:29:39 - 2:29:41] ▶
So he built them in Ro Institute and people can go down there and when you listen to certain
[2:29:41 - 2:29:45] ▶
frequencies, it's...
[2:29:45 - 2:29:48] ▶
It's just teaching people how to be psychic, how to go out of body.
[2:29:49 - 2:29:54] ▶
It's like a metaphysical institute.
[2:29:54 - 2:30:00] ▶
So can you walk us through what you teach?
[2:30:00 - 2:30:02] ▶
Oh, I just teach the second part of remote.
[2:30:02 - 2:30:05] ▶
I just teach the remote viewing to the last segment and it's not...
[2:30:05 - 2:30:11] ▶
It's just nothing much.
[2:30:11 - 2:30:12] ▶
I mean, there's nothing much.
[2:30:12 - 2:30:14] ▶
You talk to the students, you see what they learned.
[2:30:16 - 2:30:19] ▶
You know, what did you learn?
[2:30:19 - 2:30:21] ▶
Look at their results.
[2:30:21 - 2:30:23] ▶
You have to teach them how to report back.
[2:30:23 - 2:30:28] ▶
I think a lot of times when you teach people to remote view, I think people can get the
[2:30:28 - 2:30:33] ▶
picture in the target, but it's hard to come out and describe what you see.
[2:30:33 - 2:30:39] ▶
So teaching people how to remote...
[2:30:39 - 2:30:41] ▶
How to come back and remote report back.
[2:30:41 - 2:30:45] ▶
And just getting to know the students, finding out, you know, what level are they?
[2:30:45 - 2:30:50] ▶
A lot of times I recommend books to read if, you know, if they're interested in meditation,
[2:30:50 - 2:30:59] ▶
channeling, I tell them what books I would recommend.
[2:30:59 - 2:31:02] ▶
I listen to people sometimes.
[2:31:02 - 2:31:04] ▶
Something will work for one person, but not the other.
[2:31:04 - 2:31:08] ▶
So do you sit in with the...
[2:31:08 - 2:31:10] ▶
Do you sit in their sasshings with them?
[2:31:10 - 2:31:12] ▶
I just do it by Zoom, mostly.
[2:31:13 - 2:31:15] ▶
No, it's with the group, but sometimes it...
[2:31:22 - 2:31:24] ▶
Individuals get special attention.
[2:31:24 - 2:31:26] ▶
I mean, what is the curriculum of the part two?
[2:31:29 - 2:31:35] ▶
Joe teaches them how to remote view.
[2:31:35 - 2:31:38] ▶
And then I get them at the end to see how well they remote view.
[2:31:38 - 2:31:42] ▶
And then they do have questions on other things.
[2:31:42 - 2:31:45] ▶
And then we kind of take it out of remote viewing.
[2:31:45 - 2:31:48] ▶
They have a lot of questions on other things.
[2:31:48 - 2:31:52] ▶
The automatic writing.
[2:31:56 - 2:31:58] ▶
Meditation, how they remote view.
[2:32:06 - 2:32:10] ▶
You know, how are they remote viewing?
[2:32:10 - 2:32:12] ▶
I don't want them to do the steps like the CRV.
[2:32:12 - 2:32:18] ▶
And have to report back, mostly.
[2:32:19 - 2:32:23] ▶
By the time I have them, they don't have to remote view.
[2:32:23 - 2:32:27] ▶
Do they do the hemisync?
[2:32:27 - 2:32:29] ▶
I don't think they do the hemisync in remote viewing.
[2:32:30 - 2:32:33] ▶
They do it in something else.
[2:32:33 - 2:32:35] ▶
If you want hemisync, you have to go to the Monroe Institute and sign up for that.
[2:32:35 - 2:32:40] ▶
That's not remote viewing.
[2:32:40 - 2:32:41] ▶
You listen to sound.
[2:32:44 - 2:32:47] ▶
You listen to music.
[2:32:47 - 2:32:49] ▶
And it works the brain a certain way so that you can go out of body.
[2:32:49 - 2:32:56] ▶
Can you describe that a little bit more in detail?
[2:32:59 - 2:33:02] ▶
Because it's the mechanisms in the brain.
[2:33:03 - 2:33:07] ▶
It's the mechanism...
[2:33:07 - 2:33:09] ▶
The brain has to work a certain way for you to go out of body.
[2:33:09 - 2:33:13] ▶
And that's what the music or the sounds of the hemisync do.
[2:33:13 - 2:33:19] ▶
They put your body in the frequency so that you can...
[2:33:19 - 2:33:22] ▶
You have to have a certain frequency so you can go out of body.
[2:33:22 - 2:33:26] ▶
And that's what Monroe did.
[2:33:27 - 2:33:30] ▶
That's what the Monroe Institute was all about.
[2:33:30 - 2:33:34] ▶
Teaching people how to go out of body.
[2:33:34 - 2:33:37] ▶
And where does the brain...
[2:33:37 - 2:33:41] ▶
What frequency does the brain need to be so you can go out of body?
[2:33:41 - 2:33:45] ▶
Can I ask a question?
[2:33:45 - 2:33:46] ▶
Why does the point of going out of body?
[2:33:46 - 2:33:49] ▶
Why would you trigger that?
[2:33:49 - 2:33:54] ▶
I think that it expands one's consciousness.
[2:33:59 - 2:34:04] ▶
I think one can learn that there's more to life than just going out of body.
[2:34:04 - 2:34:09] ▶
I think that if you...
[2:34:09 - 2:34:11] ▶
It's better than remote viewing because if you have a...
[2:34:11 - 2:34:16] ▶
If you have a problem...
[2:34:16 - 2:34:19] ▶
If you're looking for somebody and you can leave your body and go find them,
[2:34:19 - 2:34:23] ▶
you're going to have all your senses and all of your thinking.
[2:34:23 - 2:34:27] ▶
It's not going to be fuzzy.
[2:34:27 - 2:34:29] ▶
You're going to be so aware of where you are, where the person is.
[2:34:29 - 2:34:32] ▶
You can come back and report that.
[2:34:32 - 2:34:35] ▶
It's not going to be so fuzzy as remote viewing where you're only using
[2:34:35 - 2:34:38] ▶
like the right part of the brain.
[2:34:38 - 2:34:45] ▶
Do you still... do you still go out of body?
[2:34:45 - 2:34:47] ▶
Sometimes, but not like I used to.
[2:34:47 - 2:34:50] ▶
Why not? Is that a personal decision?
[2:34:50 - 2:34:52] ▶
No, no. I have no control over it.
[2:34:52 - 2:34:56] ▶
Do you like going out of body?
[2:35:01 - 2:35:04] ▶
If you were out of body right now, what would you be searching for an answer to something?
[2:35:04 - 2:35:10] ▶
I'd probably be looking at everything around here.
[2:35:10 - 2:35:13] ▶
Where's the farthest you've traveled to?
[2:35:17 - 2:35:19] ▶
I was very happy. I remembered.
[2:35:26 - 2:35:30] ▶
Can you feel cold? Can you feel a door knob?
[2:35:33 - 2:35:38] ▶
Yeah, I could feel myself walking through...
[2:35:38 - 2:35:41] ▶
I think it's a mechanism inside the brain.
[2:35:44 - 2:35:48] ▶
Just something clicks.
[2:35:48 - 2:35:50] ▶
It's like people that levitate.
[2:35:50 - 2:35:52] ▶
Something in there is working.
[2:35:52 - 2:35:56] ▶
It clicks. There's something...
[2:35:56 - 2:35:57] ▶
It's a mechanism inside the brain.
[2:35:57 - 2:35:59] ▶
And that's what we...
[2:35:59 - 2:36:01] ▶
It's just a mechanism.
[2:36:01 - 2:36:02] ▶
It's just something in the brain just clicks.
[2:36:02 - 2:36:05] ▶
Is it like our brain is holding in our consciousness?
[2:36:05 - 2:36:08] ▶
When that something in the brain is unlocked, it releases our consciousness.
[2:36:10 - 2:36:16] ▶
It releases us into another set of consciousness.
[2:36:16 - 2:36:20] ▶
I get... Yeah, I get it.
[2:36:20 - 2:36:23] ▶
But it's still you, though.
[2:36:23 - 2:36:24] ▶
You realize that you...
[2:36:24 - 2:36:26] ▶
Yeah. on the floor when you're out of body.
[2:36:26 - 2:36:27] ▶
And you're still making your own decisions on where you want to go.
[2:36:28 - 2:36:32] ▶
Where are some other places you've traveled out of body?
[2:36:36 - 2:36:40] ▶
I think I went from...
[2:36:40 - 2:36:44] ▶
I think I went from Maryland to Pennsylvania to visit my family.
[2:36:44 - 2:36:49] ▶
One time I think I went to Chicago.
[2:36:49 - 2:36:51] ▶
I don't know why I went to Chicago.
[2:36:51 - 2:36:53] ▶
I don't know. I don't know.
[2:36:54 - 2:36:56] ▶
But mostly it's mostly...
[2:36:59 - 2:37:01] ▶
It's mostly just nature, stars, trees.
[2:37:03 - 2:37:06] ▶
What am I not asking that I should be asking you?
[2:37:11 - 2:37:14] ▶
I just think that...
[2:37:15 - 2:37:17] ▶
I think that you're probably very aware and intuitive yourself.
[2:37:17 - 2:37:21] ▶
Why do you think that?
[2:37:21 - 2:37:23] ▶
Because you told me some of the experiences that you had.
[2:37:23 - 2:37:26] ▶
There's a book called Human Design. Have you read that book?
[2:37:26 - 2:37:29] ▶
It puts people into certain categories like you're either...
[2:37:30 - 2:37:34] ▶
Like a manifestor, a generator, a creator.
[2:37:34 - 2:37:38] ▶
And it puts people into four personality types.
[2:37:38 - 2:37:42] ▶
It's a very interesting book.
[2:37:43 - 2:37:45] ▶
What's that book called?
[2:37:45 - 2:37:46] ▶
It's called Human Design.
[2:37:46 - 2:37:48] ▶
I'm going to look that up and try to get the author on here if he's still alive.
[2:37:49 - 2:37:53] ▶
No, it's a good book. A lot of people...
[2:37:53 - 2:37:55] ▶
It's the different personalities.
[2:37:58 - 2:38:02] ▶
It puts people in four different personalities.
[2:38:02 - 2:38:06] ▶
You could be a manifestor.
[2:38:07 - 2:38:09] ▶
Because I'm a generator, so it'd be harder...
[2:38:09 - 2:38:12] ▶
It'd be hard for me to be a manifestor.
[2:38:12 - 2:38:14] ▶
What is a generator?
[2:38:14 - 2:38:16] ▶
You have to let things come to you.
[2:38:16 - 2:38:18] ▶
You react to things that a manifestor will go out and get things.
[2:38:18 - 2:38:23] ▶
Information has to come to you.
[2:38:25 - 2:38:28] ▶
And then you react to the information.
[2:38:28 - 2:38:32] ▶
And that's how you get...
[2:38:32 - 2:38:33] ▶
That's how generators get...
[2:38:33 - 2:38:35] ▶
They react to information.
[2:38:35 - 2:38:37] ▶
Okay, that's how they...
[2:38:38 - 2:38:40] ▶
Do you put any significance on certain numbers?
[2:38:42 - 2:38:45] ▶
So I'll give you an example.
[2:38:45 - 2:38:48] ▶
Spiritual experience in Sedona.
[2:38:53 - 2:38:56] ▶
And which I believe God was speaking to me.
[2:38:56 - 2:38:59] ▶
Shortly thereafter, I started to see the number 444 everywhere.
[2:39:02 - 2:39:05] ▶
I still see it all the time.
[2:39:06 - 2:39:08] ▶
Okay, you look up the meaning of 444.
[2:39:08 - 2:39:11] ▶
It means your guardian angels are with you.
[2:39:11 - 2:39:14] ▶
And want you to know that they're...
[2:39:14 - 2:39:15] ▶
Okay, then you're highly protected.
[2:39:16 - 2:39:18] ▶
444 also ends up for 12.
[2:39:18 - 2:39:22] ▶
So that 12 could be in a 3.
[2:39:22 - 2:39:25] ▶
And that's also a...
[2:39:25 - 2:39:27] ▶
It's also protection.
[2:39:27 - 2:39:28] ▶
But when people start seeing numbers
[2:39:36 - 2:39:39] ▶
and when people start finding coins,
[2:39:39 - 2:39:43] ▶
When I went to see John Edward in Baltimore,
[2:39:45 - 2:39:49] ▶
When people start seeing...
[2:39:51 - 2:39:53] ▶
Pay attention to numbers.
[2:39:53 - 2:39:54] ▶
You're getting messages.
[2:39:56 - 2:39:57] ▶
And then all of a sudden,
[2:39:58 - 2:39:59] ▶
somebody may pass and just start finding coins.
[2:39:59 - 2:40:03] ▶
That person is with you.
[2:40:03 - 2:40:05] ▶
Coins, what do you mean?
[2:40:05 - 2:40:06] ▶
Sometimes when people die,
[2:40:07 - 2:40:09] ▶
people like their loved ones will start
[2:40:09 - 2:40:11] ▶
just finding coins everywhere,
[2:40:11 - 2:40:13] ▶
Did you ever find coins?
[2:40:16 - 2:40:18] ▶
No, not that I'm aware of.
[2:40:20 - 2:40:22] ▶
Yeah, I had a girlfriend who...
[2:40:22 - 2:40:25] ▶
Every time somebody died in her family,
[2:40:25 - 2:40:27] ▶
she would find coins.
[2:40:27 - 2:40:29] ▶
And her mother died and she found coins
[2:40:29 - 2:40:31] ▶
so she knew that her mother was with her.
[2:40:31 - 2:40:34] ▶
I had a friend whose mother died
[2:40:35 - 2:40:38] ▶
and the mother told her she would give her a sign
[2:40:38 - 2:40:43] ▶
So it was winter time
[2:40:44 - 2:40:46] ▶
and this bird kept showing up
[2:40:46 - 2:40:49] ▶
on my girlfriend's balcony.
[2:40:49 - 2:40:51] ▶
And my girlfriend would say,
[2:40:52 - 2:40:54] ▶
Wonder why that bird's here?
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Because, you know, birds fly south for the winter.
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And she said that bird showed up every day
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and the girl was like, was that stupid bird here?
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And here she finally, it was like her mother.
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And then she said, oh, okay, you're okay.
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And then she never saw the bird again.
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Do you believe in mediumship?
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Yeah, of course, yeah.
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Can you do mediumship?
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So where are those...
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I guess we call it heaven, right?
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It's like they're on the other side of the veil.
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I guess that's what we call our heaven.
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So they haven't been reincarnated yet?
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Can you ask, do you believe you can access
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once somebody's art have been reincarnated?
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Yeah, but probably, but mostly, but yeah,
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but you just don't come back that easy.
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I mean, there's a whole process to it.
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What do you mean by that?
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You go over and you just don't come back.
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You gotta go over there and you've got to...
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I don't know, you're with other people.
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You have to take stock of what you do.
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You have to decide, do you want to come back?
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And what, it's just, you just don't go
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and then come back and let's get reincarnated.
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There's a process to it, I think.
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What, I mean, could you get a little more descriptive
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Well, I think when you go over, they say that...
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Your loved ones are there
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and that when you pass over,
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that your loved ones will meet you.
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And then they, and then they sort of take you into these,
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into where I guess the, where the God source is
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and it's really nice.
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And that more or less you can do what you want.
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If you want to study, they have it like the,
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if you want to study, you can study.
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If you want to fish, you can fish,
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you can do whatever you want.
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However, you do take stock.
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What did you learn in this life?
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How can you be better?
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And if you come back, you're with the same people
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and the role, you just get better.
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Do you think it's a completely different experience
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when you come back or are you reliving kind of the same?
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Well, yeah, it's the same energy, but yeah,
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you will have, you will still have some of the same energy
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from your previous lives.
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That's what you have to work out.
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Do you believe there are new souls and old souls?
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Out there, young and immature.
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How, how do they come about?
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What do you mean, how do they come about?
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I mean, if there's old souls and new souls,
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what, what creates a new soul?
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Probably someone that has had many earth experiences.
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Do you think you can tell the difference
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between an old soul and a new soul?
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You can tell by person's face.
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What do you think I am?
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Probably an old soul, because you're searching.
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Well, because you're searching, you're searching.
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Let's talk about astrology.
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But when's your birthday?
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Okay, so what do you want to know about astrology?
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I don't know that much about astrology,
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although I do know astrologers.
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It's more than your birth sign, but there's a lot that
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they look at, okay, the time you were born
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and where you were born and they look at other things.
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They look, I guess they look at the 12 planets
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and where they were at the time of your birth.
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And then from that, they get a full of picture of who you are.
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Then once they, that's your personality,
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and then they can take that and do projections into the future
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as to what could happen to you.
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So you may be a Libra, but your rising sign would be another,
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your rising sign gives you more of your personality
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in your moon placement, gives you your emotions.
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So even though you're a Libra,
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you've got to look at the other things to figure out,
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to give you the full picture of who you are.
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How does that determine, thanks?
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I think it's just great to know your personality and know who you are.
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A lot of times people will go to astrologers to look at,
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where were the planets when I was born and what does it all mean?
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And it gives, I think it can help give people
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a better sense about themselves, who they are, why they're here,
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what they would be good at, what they wouldn't be good at.
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And then you have transits like if somebody's looking for a new job,
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there may be a transit coming up that's saying,
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well, this would be a good time to look for a new job,
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or this would be a good time to buy a new house.
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And they look at, and then they can take that and project it into the future.
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Man, I don't know what questions to ask,
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because I wasn't anticipating going here,
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but I mean, what is it about the dates, the moon,
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all of this stuff that kind of predetermines,
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it sounds like it predetermines your personality and your strengths.
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It can, but I mean, weren't the wise men, weren't they supposed to be astrologers?
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And I think Jesus wasn't a scene, he wasn't a scene,
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and that those people, they were vegetarians and they were astrologers.
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And the other tribes didn't like them because in the ASEAN tribe,
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women had a lot of power.
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And it made the other tribes upset.
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That's why they made, they didn't like Mary Magdalena.
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It was, it was the tribe that Jesus belonged to, he wasn't a scene.
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When you look at somebody, do you feel that you can tell if they're a good person
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or not right off the bat?
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I feel like I can, but I also have been wrong several times.
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And there's some people that are out of the ball.
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And there's some people that will surprise you.
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And like my cousin would say, well, we just didn't see that one coming.
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You know, if you're wrong, all you say is, well, I didn't see that one coming.
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But yeah, most of the time, but yeah, I mean, of course,
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there's always going to be somebody that's going to take you by surprise.
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Well, Angela, I know you have a flight to catch and, um,
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but thank you very much.
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I just want to say thank you for commenting.
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Oh, it's been my pleasure.
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Yeah, I have really enjoyed this conversation.
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And I hope we stand touch.
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I'm going to get you some books.
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I'm going to get you.
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No matter where you're watching, Sean Ryan show from.
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