Eric Weinstein Demands UFO Secrets From Pentagon Scientist

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10,643 segments

So you're going to create a wormhole on demand?
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You should be able to. That's what my research showed.
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So walk me through how do I get to Alpha Centauri by engineering a traversable wormhole.
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Well, you're going to create...
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Eric Davis, you are kind of synonymous with UFO science.
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You have an amazing background at Aerospace Corporation, Earth Tech.
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You've worked with NASA Lewis.
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Eric Weinstein, you are a math PhD from Harvard who has dared to present a theory of everything in physics.
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The alleged Roswell crash was real. There was a there, there. It really happened.
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How is it possible that something this large that involves this many people has zero incontrovertible pieces of evidence?
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Do you dispute the existence of atomic weapons because you can't access it?
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I can't access it.
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Oh, you can access it.
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I have no idea what we just did.
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It is a crash retrieval. Non-human intelligence. Non-human technology.
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How many of those crash retrieval program people have you met?
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I think it's five total. There's no physics in it.
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It doesn't make any sense.
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Say again?
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It defies the laws of physics. We haven't made progress. We have no physicists.
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How are they doing on this project decades in?
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This thing is not a Manhattan Project, and you know what the Manhattan Project would be.
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Not one of these proposals excites me. They're boring as sin.
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I don't like GR. Why are you not tweaking it?
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I don't have intuition on how I could tweak it.
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Are there propulsion modalities that you're high conviction in that transcend chemical combustion?
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Yeah, it goes way beyond even advanced.
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Are you aware of reports that we are being...
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Monitor?
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...made to know that we do not control our space?
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Yes.
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When you see smoke at this level, the question is, what is the nature of the fire?
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That's right.
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There are different fires.
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But there is a fire.
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Or there's a smoke machine.
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Or there's a smoke machine.
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Right, right.
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Epstein was running many different programs. It wasn't even Epstein probably running.
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Look, I believe we can leave. And if you believe you can leave, you have to imagine that you're being visited.
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Ignition frequency.
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How is this possible?
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Nothing too unusual about that.
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The existence cannot longer be denied.
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Dr. Eric Weinstein, Dr. Eric Davis, this is an absolute honor.
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I can't believe this is finally happening.
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I think often in this space, when we're talking about UFOs, UFO legacy, reverse engineering programs,
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you have like a wave function that never sort of collapses.
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And you have, you know, different sides saying things that are mutually exclusive.
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And truth, it never collapses into true or false.
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And I'm really excited to do this because, Eric Weinstein, you probably need no introduction when it comes to kind of a general audience.
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You are a math PhD from Harvard, premier cultural commentator of our generation,
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who has dared to present a theory of everything in physics.
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And then Eric Davis, you definitely need no introduction in UFO space,
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but to maybe a more general audience, you know, some of whom who might have seen you in this recent Age of Disclosure movie.
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You are kind of synonymous with UFO science.
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You have an amazing background at Aerospace Corporation, Earth Tech.
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You've worked with NASA Lewis.
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You've worked on various initiatives in exotic propulsion, directed energy.
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And so very excited to have you both today.
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I want to make this kind of two parts.
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One part is kind of establishing ground truth on Eric Davis's claims because he's invested,
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he's formally investigated this UFO legacy reverse engineering program.
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So I want to figure out what those claims are for the audience.
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And then part two, and this is why we have you here, Dr. Weinstein, is I want to figure out,
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and this is kind of actually a follow-up on this thing we did with Hal Puthoff last time,
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if there is a theoretical physics component to this UFO legacy reverse engineering program,
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is there physics hiding in private aerospace corporations?
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Physics you can think of as the rules of reality itself.
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That would be problematic, to say the least, if that were the case.
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And so I'm very excited to speak to you both.
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Thank you.
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Thank you very much.
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Thanks for having me.
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Awesome.
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So, Eric Davis, I want to start with you.
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When did you become aware of this UFO legacy reverse engineering program?
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And how did you become aware of it, and how are you so high confidence in it?
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I was working at NIDS, it'd be 30 years this July.
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And I was the director of aerospace physics and astrophysics research at NIDS.
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That's National Institute for Discovery Science that Bob Bigelow founded in 1995.
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And I was hired in July of 96 along with Colin Kelleher and George O'Nett.
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And John Alexander was already there on the staff, also served as a member of the science advisory board.
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So I worked for Air Force Research Lab after NIDS and before Hal Puthoff hired me at AirTech.
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Okay, so then during my work at AFRL and then during my 15 years working with Hal Puthoff,
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we got involved with the OSAP slash ATIP.
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And then later on, the separate attempt called ATIP,
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and then the UAP task force that Jay Stratton led.
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And using my security clearances, my need to know, my access,
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including my letter that I'm deputized by Jim Lekatsky as a representative of the Defense Intelligence Agency,
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I used all that leverage and authority to get into the crash retrieval program.
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I couldn't get access to see craft bodies or talk to the people,
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but I was able to get in to the people who handled all of that at a programmatic level
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and got confirmation that all of that was real, that all of it happened.
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And what's your conviction level in, say, Roswell, for example,
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like that being a real crash involving non-human biologics?
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It's 100%.
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100%.
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It's 100%.
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And it wasn't in Roswell, New Mexico.
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It was on the Foster Ranch in Corona, New Mexico, which is 30 miles from Roswell.
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This landed at a ranch at Corona, New Mexico, and the rancher turned it over to the airport.
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Army officers say the missile found sometime last week has been inspected at Roswell, New Mexico,
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and sent to Wright Field, Ohio, for further inspection.
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I had my information I got from Ed Mitchell at a science advisory board meeting
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about the Greer briefings on the disclosure project at the Pentagon,
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and then Admiral Wilson coming back and verifying that the Roswell crash,
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well, the Corona crash actually, really did happen.
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It wasn't a mogul balloon.
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It wasn't a raw wind radar test balloon project.
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It wasn't a weather balloon.
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It wasn't anything of that nature.
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It was a real craft of unknown origin that was adjudicated to be not of human origin or construct.
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And it crashed on the Foster Ranch in Corona, New Mexico.
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And then there's my work with Dave Grush when I was at the Aerospace Corporation.
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He was at the Aerospace Corporation building in Colorado Springs
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because he worked for their government customer, which occupied one or two floors there.
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What was David Grush doing in that capacity?
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He was, I think, a security contractor or advisor to a program manager.
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Dave was the NRO liaison officer to the UAP task force.
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So he took direction from Jay Stratton.
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Wasn't he a national geospatial agency?
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No, I said the NRO, the National Reconnaissance Officer.
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Yeah, you said that, but I thought he was national geospatial.
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No, that was later.
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That was later.
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That was later.
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Okay, so he's the NRO liaison.
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So during the UAPTF, he was the liaison officer on behalf of the NRO to the task force.
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Yep, got it.
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So he worked with Travis Taylor, Jay Stratton.
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There's some other folks that don't want to be named, I know.
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So I just know that there's a core group of 40 people,
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but there was a peripheral body of a thousand people that contributed some of their time and labor and resources
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and the other government agencies, DOD agencies, intelligence agencies, to feed information to the task force.
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A lot of people ask about kind of circular reporting when it comes to UFO, you know, testimonies.
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David Grush is what a lot of people, I think, are hinging their belief on
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because he just seems like a very kind of honest above board guy who stumbled into a lot of this stuff.
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How many of his witnesses, his 40 witnesses, are more of kind of the hapless engineer type
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that just worked on the vehicles versus people who have, you know, kind of secondhand or, you know, thirdhand?
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No, they're all firsthand.
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It's just that it's something that Eric and I had lots of hours and hours of conversations about two years ago.
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Not a single of them were a physicist.
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Not a single one of these guys were physicists.
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They had some discipline in engineering in their profession.
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They were either electrical engineers, material scientists, aerospace engineers,
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aeromechanical, aerothermal, thermal control, fluid mechanics.
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Save that thought.
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Who wasn't a real physicist there?
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Nobody at the PhD level who is either an applied physicist or a theoretical physicist.
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Save that thought, please, because that is going to basically be the entire kind of premise for the second part of this.
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Do you have any questions as I'm sort of, you know?
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Well, you know, look, one of the things that I dislike very strongly about the UAP world
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is that you spend an inordinate amount of time if you're just trying to be an honest, analytic person with the,
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is there any actual, tangible, incontrovertible proof?
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And it always seems like there's somehow this tight-knit group of people who, in general, themselves don't have direct proof,
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but sort of have proof one thing away.
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And people build entire theories about the names of crafts and who was where.
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And I just have no idea as a civilian and a technical civilian how to think about this,
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because I don't want to spend our time in the, is it real or not mode,
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because that basically wastes time.
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And it's also how conspirators get people not to work on conspiracy theories that could work,
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is that you demonize and stigmatize the behavior.
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So I usually would prefer in this situation to just decamp and assume the nature of all of these.
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But just to be honest, and it just needs to be said once,
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I've been looking at this now, I don't know, five years since Jesse first crammed it down my throat.
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And I would say, I was clearly wrong about it.
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It's an enormous area.
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There's so many people who claim to have had contact with this program in one form or another.
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I can't believe that anyone could train an acting troupe at Brando levels of sincerity.
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To lie to me like that.
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On the other hand, I've never seen anything like it,
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where I can't get a single shred of incontrovertible proof.
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And so many people seem to have it, but they all seem to be under some kind of an NDA,
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where they can't give something real.
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So just the first frustrating question is,
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how is it possible that something this large that involves this many people
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has zero scientifically incontrovertible pieces of evidence so that we can actually—
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there's no way to predicate a discussion in a way that I know that's responsible.
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It just completely eludes the scientific community.
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Yeah, it's because the incontrovertible evidence is kept in the classified realm for security reasons.
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Well, but—
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There you go.
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And again, I don't want to—
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Do you dispute the existence of atomic weapons because you can't access it?
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I can't access it.
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Oh, you can access it now.
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Yes.
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Have you actually been to pick up the plutonium core?
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No, I never kept the demon core in my basement.
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Oh, how about the—
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But I appreciate the—
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The lithium-6 fuel and the primary—
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Oh, we used to do that in high school.
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Oh.
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No, no.
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What I'm saying is that the Teller-Ulan design
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is released as a highly redacted report.
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Right?
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And so I have an idea from plenty of sources that this program exists.
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And what's more, in the case of atomic weapons,
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physicists are not perfectly locked down.
[0:16:09 - 0:16:12] ▶
It's a high-trust community.
[0:16:12 - 0:16:13] ▶
And in general, people are willing to talk, you know,
[0:16:13 - 0:16:17] ▶
even if they shouldn't, about the role of physics in atomic weapons.
[0:16:18 - 0:16:21] ▶
I have never heard a colleague, not once, at a high level in physics,
[0:16:21 - 0:16:27] ▶
give any credence to this world.
[0:16:28 - 0:16:30] ▶
In other words—
[0:16:30 - 0:16:31] ▶
Well, that's because they didn't have access.
[0:16:31 - 0:16:32] ▶
They didn't have need to know.
[0:16:33 - 0:16:34] ▶
They didn't have a contract where they had to have access.
[0:16:34 - 0:16:36] ▶
Which, again, it's not a challenge in that sense.
[0:16:36 - 0:16:38] ▶
Assume that there is a dividing line.
[0:16:38 - 0:16:40] ▶
But it means that in the Manhattan Project, right?
[0:16:40 - 0:16:45] ▶
We called in Feynman and Bohr and Fermi and von Neumann
[0:16:46 - 0:16:53] ▶
and put them under Robert Oppenheimer and Teller and all these cats.
[0:16:53 - 0:16:57] ▶
And Bethi and…
[0:16:57 - 0:16:59] ▶
And Beta, right?
[0:16:59 - 0:17:00] ▶
But in so doing, I would say, okay,
[0:17:01 - 0:17:05] ▶
I would imagine that if this is an existential threat,
[0:17:05 - 0:17:08] ▶
that there's stuff from someplace we can't understand
[0:17:08 - 0:17:11] ▶
that moves and breaks the laws of physics and all this,
[0:17:11 - 0:17:14] ▶
we would call that in.
[0:17:14 - 0:17:16] ▶
Now, one of the great things that came out of our discussions before
[0:17:16 - 0:17:18] ▶
is you said this thing, which I repeated on Rogan
[0:17:18 - 0:17:21] ▶
because I didn't think it was classified.
[0:17:21 - 0:17:22] ▶
You said, when it comes to being technical just at this point,
[0:17:22 - 0:17:25] ▶
that they don't invite in physics,
[0:17:25 - 0:17:26] ▶
you said that Eric, you, me, and Hal Puthoff
[0:17:27 - 0:17:34] ▶
are the three most technical people on this.
[0:17:34 - 0:17:36] ▶
And I said, I'm not on this.
[0:17:36 - 0:17:38] ▶
Yeah, that's the problem.
[0:17:38 - 0:17:39] ▶
Yeah, that's the problem.
[0:17:39 - 0:17:40] ▶
You should be in it.
[0:17:40 - 0:17:41] ▶
Okay, but that makes you Oppenheimer.
[0:17:41 - 0:17:43] ▶
And von Neumann and Feynman and Beta and Fermi is Hal
[0:17:44 - 0:17:48] ▶
or something like that.
[0:17:48 - 0:17:49] ▶
In other words, or the reverse.
[0:17:50 - 0:17:51] ▶
But are you and Hal our Manhattan Project?
[0:17:52 - 0:17:55] ▶
No, we're not directly involved.
[0:17:57 - 0:17:59] ▶
We've been exposed to it officially
[0:17:59 - 0:18:01] ▶
for the purpose of the OSAPs goals.
[0:18:01 - 0:18:04] ▶
What is the question that I wish to ask?
[0:18:04 - 0:18:07] ▶
Can you figure out?
[0:18:07 - 0:18:08] ▶
Well, I think what Eric's trying to ask,
[0:18:08 - 0:18:10] ▶
and I do want to actually continue along the former lines
[0:18:10 - 0:18:13] ▶
of just asking about kind of core evidence with Dr. Davis.
[0:18:13 - 0:18:16] ▶
But I think the question that Eric is trying to ask is,
[0:18:17 - 0:18:20] ▶
you just mentioned that none of Grush's, you know,
[0:18:20 - 0:18:24] ▶
40 witnesses that he, you know,
[0:18:24 - 0:18:26] ▶
handed over to the intelligence community inspector general
[0:18:26 - 0:18:29] ▶
are theoretical physicists.
[0:18:29 - 0:18:31] ▶
Right.
[0:18:31 - 0:18:31] ▶
And so you have, you know, your physics PhD,
[0:18:32 - 0:18:34] ▶
Hal's an electrical engineer.
[0:18:35 - 0:18:36] ▶
Well, he's also, well, his PhD was in laser physics
[0:18:36 - 0:18:40] ▶
because when you go to Stanford in the 1960s,
[0:18:40 - 0:18:43] ▶
you can't get a PhD in physics or a master's.
[0:18:43 - 0:18:45] ▶
So it's you two and then Eric,
[0:18:45 - 0:18:47] ▶
who is a, you know, math PhD at the highest level
[0:18:48 - 0:18:50] ▶
who can keep up with, you know,
[0:18:50 - 0:18:52] ▶
any physicist in the country
[0:18:52 - 0:18:54] ▶
and has his own physics theory of everything.
[0:18:54 - 0:18:55] ▶
Oh, I know.
[0:18:56 - 0:18:56] ▶
And so it's all three of you guys,
[0:18:56 - 0:18:58] ▶
but all three of you are outsiders.
[0:18:58 - 0:19:00] ▶
He's a real outsider.
[0:19:00 - 0:19:02] ▶
You two have officially investigated this stuff
[0:19:02 - 0:19:04] ▶
and you're saying there are no theoretical physicists
[0:19:04 - 0:19:06] ▶
on the core program.
[0:19:06 - 0:19:08] ▶
I've never seen one.
[0:19:08 - 0:19:09] ▶
I've never gotten evidence from the people,
[0:19:09 - 0:19:12] ▶
from the leadership at the two aerospace companies
[0:19:12 - 0:19:15] ▶
I personally interviewed with.
[0:19:15 - 0:19:17] ▶
That's so wild.
[0:19:17 - 0:19:18] ▶
I don't mean interviewed with,
[0:19:18 - 0:19:19] ▶
but who I investigated and interviewed leadership
[0:19:19 - 0:19:21] ▶
and a few of the worker bees involved.
[0:19:21 - 0:19:25] ▶
Are there propulsion modalities
[0:19:25 - 0:19:27] ▶
that you're high conviction in
[0:19:27 - 0:19:29] ▶
that transcend chemical combustion?
[0:19:29 - 0:19:31] ▶
Yeah, it goes way beyond even advanced nuclear.
[0:19:32 - 0:19:36] ▶
And nuclear in aerospace industry
[0:19:36 - 0:19:38] ▶
is fission, fusion, and matter-antimatter annihilation.
[0:19:38 - 0:19:42] ▶
Way beyond that.
[0:19:42 - 0:19:43] ▶
I don't think we have a grasp of it.
[0:19:44 - 0:19:46] ▶
I haven't heard anybody that I've interviewed
[0:19:46 - 0:19:48] ▶
say that they have a grasp of it.
[0:19:48 - 0:19:51] ▶
And even as recently, unfortunately,
[0:19:51 - 0:19:54] ▶
the one technical person
[0:19:54 - 0:19:57] ▶
who ended up becoming a senior VP decades later
[0:19:57 - 0:20:01] ▶
at the biggest of the legacy aerospace companies,
[0:20:01 - 0:20:05] ▶
he was a material scientist
[0:20:05 - 0:20:07] ▶
working on the crash retrieval program
[0:20:07 - 0:20:09] ▶
after getting his doctorate,
[0:20:09 - 0:20:10] ▶
after earning his doctorate.
[0:20:10 - 0:20:11] ▶
And he got hired straight away
[0:20:12 - 0:20:13] ▶
to work on it for about roughly two decades.
[0:20:13 - 0:20:16] ▶
Who is this?
[0:20:16 - 0:20:17] ▶
Who is that?
[0:20:17 - 0:20:18] ▶
I'm not going to.
[0:20:19 - 0:20:19] ▶
Okay, good. No worries.
[0:20:20 - 0:20:20] ▶
So basically, he's a material scientist.
[0:20:20 - 0:20:24] ▶
We've had a lot of classified
[0:20:25 - 0:20:26] ▶
and unclassified discussions.
[0:20:26 - 0:20:27] ▶
And I brought these questions up.
[0:20:28 - 0:20:30] ▶
I asked his questions.
[0:20:30 - 0:20:31] ▶
Yeah.
[0:20:31 - 0:20:32] ▶
And the answer is,
[0:20:32 - 0:20:33] ▶
no, we didn't have theoretical physicists
[0:20:33 - 0:20:36] ▶
that we could put on this.
[0:20:36 - 0:20:38] ▶
We're strictly limited
[0:20:38 - 0:20:39] ▶
in the number of people on the bigot list.
[0:20:39 - 0:20:41] ▶
The bigot list is the list of people
[0:20:41 - 0:20:43] ▶
who have need to know and access
[0:20:43 - 0:20:44] ▶
to a particular classified program.
[0:20:44 - 0:20:46] ▶
And if you're not on that list,
[0:20:47 - 0:20:48] ▶
you don't get admitted.
[0:20:48 - 0:20:49] ▶
So this is...
[0:20:49 - 0:20:49] ▶
You don't get invited.
[0:20:49 - 0:20:50] ▶
This is an unacknowledged,
[0:20:50 - 0:20:52] ▶
waived and bigoted special access program.
[0:20:52 - 0:20:55] ▶
It's a waived, unacknowledged,
[0:20:55 - 0:20:57] ▶
special access program.
[0:20:57 - 0:20:58] ▶
Right.
[0:20:58 - 0:20:58] ▶
And so I said,
[0:20:59 - 0:21:01] ▶
so where are your physicists?
[0:21:01 - 0:21:01] ▶
What are your theoretical
[0:21:02 - 0:21:03] ▶
and applied physicists telling you?
[0:21:03 - 0:21:04] ▶
He said, well, we don't have any.
[0:21:04 - 0:21:05] ▶
We never did.
[0:21:05 - 0:21:06] ▶
We only were allowed to keep it down
[0:21:06 - 0:21:08] ▶
to roughly a handful of people
[0:21:08 - 0:21:10] ▶
in the company to work on this.
[0:21:10 - 0:21:12] ▶
And that's it.
[0:21:12 - 0:21:12] ▶
And it's limited to engineering.
[0:21:12 - 0:21:14] ▶
There's no physics in it.
[0:21:14 - 0:21:15] ▶
It doesn't make any sense.
[0:21:15 - 0:21:17] ▶
Say again?
[0:21:17 - 0:21:17] ▶
I'm just trying to logically think about this.
[0:21:19 - 0:21:21] ▶
Okay.
[0:21:21 - 0:21:22] ▶
And, you know, it's like saying,
[0:21:22 - 0:21:24] ▶
we're having trouble performing
[0:21:24 - 0:21:26] ▶
Beethoven's Fifth,
[0:21:26 - 0:21:27] ▶
and we have the finest accountants,
[0:21:27 - 0:21:30] ▶
optometrists, boxers,
[0:21:30 - 0:21:32] ▶
and cardio trainers.
[0:21:33 - 0:21:34] ▶
And you're like, well,
[0:21:35 - 0:21:35] ▶
what about violinists and violists
[0:21:35 - 0:21:38] ▶
and anybody playing the French horn?
[0:21:38 - 0:21:40] ▶
And it's like, oh, well,
[0:21:40 - 0:21:41] ▶
we don't do that.
[0:21:41 - 0:21:43] ▶
So, of course,
[0:21:43 - 0:21:44] ▶
you're not going to play
[0:21:44 - 0:21:45] ▶
Beethoven's Fifth.
[0:21:45 - 0:21:46] ▶
I mean, because you can't engineer
[0:21:46 - 0:21:48] ▶
your way out of a science problem.
[0:21:48 - 0:21:49] ▶
Yeah.
[0:21:50 - 0:21:50] ▶
Well, let me tell you,
[0:21:50 - 0:21:51] ▶
I think you've got a great point
[0:21:51 - 0:21:52] ▶
about talking about
[0:21:52 - 0:21:53] ▶
the Manhattan Project.
[0:21:53 - 0:21:55] ▶
This thing is not a Manhattan Project,
[0:21:55 - 0:21:59] ▶
and you know what
[0:21:59 - 0:21:59] ▶
the Manhattan Project was.
[0:21:59 - 0:22:01] ▶
We both do.
[0:22:01 - 0:22:01] ▶
We read the books.
[0:22:01 - 0:22:02] ▶
It was multidisciplinary.
[0:22:03 - 0:22:04] ▶
How many people?
[0:22:04 - 0:22:05] ▶
Thousands of people?
[0:22:05 - 0:22:06] ▶
Multidisciplinary people.
[0:22:06 - 0:22:07] ▶
The White Badges was
[0:22:07 - 0:22:08] ▶
the very small core,
[0:22:08 - 0:22:09] ▶
but the whole thing
[0:22:09 - 0:22:10] ▶
was enormous.
[0:22:10 - 0:22:11] ▶
Yeah.
[0:22:11 - 0:22:11] ▶
You had industrial engineers,
[0:22:11 - 0:22:13] ▶
computational engineers,
[0:22:14 - 0:22:15] ▶
electrical engineers,
[0:22:15 - 0:22:16] ▶
mechanical engineers,
[0:22:17 - 0:22:17] ▶
explosives experts,
[0:22:17 - 0:22:19] ▶
nuclear physicists,
[0:22:20 - 0:22:21] ▶
and nuclear engineers.
[0:22:22 - 0:22:23] ▶
You had everybody
[0:22:23 - 0:22:24] ▶
of all the STEM disciplines there.
[0:22:24 - 0:22:26] ▶
You had to have mathematicians.
[0:22:26 - 0:22:27] ▶
And they were involved
[0:22:28 - 0:22:29] ▶
with that program
[0:22:29 - 0:22:30] ▶
to build up the fuel,
[0:22:30 - 0:22:32] ▶
design, characterization,
[0:22:33 - 0:22:34] ▶
and manufacture.
[0:22:34 - 0:22:36] ▶
But this program doesn't,
[0:22:36 - 0:22:37] ▶
these programs don't have that.
[0:22:37 - 0:22:38] ▶
They deliberately keep it
[0:22:39 - 0:22:40] ▶
divided up among different companies
[0:22:40 - 0:22:41] ▶
to maintain plausible deniability
[0:22:41 - 0:22:43] ▶
in case there's a leak,
[0:22:43 - 0:22:44] ▶
and they keep it very small
[0:22:44 - 0:22:46] ▶
for the reason...
[0:22:46 - 0:22:46] ▶
Okay, but it has to be
[0:22:46 - 0:22:47] ▶
centralized somewhere.
[0:22:47 - 0:22:48] ▶
The compartmentalized nature
[0:22:49 - 0:22:50] ▶
of Los Alamos
[0:22:50 - 0:22:51] ▶
and the Manhattan Project
[0:22:51 - 0:22:53] ▶
more broadly
[0:22:53 - 0:22:54] ▶
was still overseen
[0:22:54 - 0:22:57] ▶
by a small group
[0:22:57 - 0:22:58] ▶
who had universal access.
[0:22:58 - 0:22:59] ▶
That's right.
[0:22:59 - 0:23:00] ▶
And also note
[0:23:00 - 0:23:01] ▶
that the Manhattan Project people
[0:23:01 - 0:23:03] ▶
had their families
[0:23:03 - 0:23:04] ▶
living with them too
[0:23:04 - 0:23:05] ▶
in a closed city.
[0:23:05 - 0:23:06] ▶
That's right.
[0:23:06 - 0:23:06] ▶
That's right.
[0:23:07 - 0:23:07] ▶
So they don't have an equivalent
[0:23:07 - 0:23:09] ▶
for this in the
[0:23:09 - 0:23:10] ▶
crash retrieval program.
[0:23:10 - 0:23:11] ▶
So there's
[0:23:12 - 0:23:14] ▶
disjointed groups of people,
[0:23:14 - 0:23:16] ▶
small numbers of people.
[0:23:17 - 0:23:18] ▶
They're not allowed to know
[0:23:18 - 0:23:19] ▶
about the other people
[0:23:19 - 0:23:21] ▶
in the other groups
[0:23:21 - 0:23:22] ▶
and what they're doing.
[0:23:22 - 0:23:22] ▶
Those are the people
[0:23:23 - 0:23:23] ▶
who are in the
[0:23:23 - 0:23:24] ▶
stove-piped architecture.
[0:23:24 - 0:23:26] ▶
Right.
[0:23:26 - 0:23:26] ▶
And the central,
[0:23:26 - 0:23:27] ▶
the central portfolio owner
[0:23:27 - 0:23:31] ▶
is a three-letter
[0:23:31 - 0:23:32] ▶
intelligence agency.
[0:23:32 - 0:23:33] ▶
So that's who's
[0:23:33 - 0:23:34] ▶
centrally in charge.
[0:23:34 - 0:23:35] ▶
It was Leslie Grove
[0:23:35 - 0:23:36] ▶
in the United States.
[0:23:36 - 0:23:37] ▶
Was it the,
[0:23:37 - 0:23:37] ▶
was Leslie the general
[0:23:37 - 0:23:39] ▶
of the Army Corps
[0:23:39 - 0:23:41] ▶
of Engineers
[0:23:41 - 0:23:41] ▶
or was he in a different...
[0:23:41 - 0:23:43] ▶
I don't remember
[0:23:43 - 0:23:44] ▶
where he was seated.
[0:23:44 - 0:23:45] ▶
But he was in charge
[0:23:45 - 0:23:46] ▶
on behalf of the Army.
[0:23:46 - 0:23:47] ▶
He ran it.
[0:23:47 - 0:23:47] ▶
He was the military boss
[0:23:48 - 0:23:49] ▶
and Oppenheimer
[0:23:49 - 0:23:50] ▶
was the civilian boss
[0:23:50 - 0:23:52] ▶
of the Manhattan Project.
[0:23:52 - 0:23:53] ▶
Do you take David Grush
[0:23:53 - 0:23:55] ▶
at face value
[0:23:55 - 0:23:56] ▶
that Dick Cheney
[0:23:56 - 0:23:57] ▶
was the last head honcho
[0:23:57 - 0:23:59] ▶
of this sort of program?
[0:23:59 - 0:24:01] ▶
And there's not really
[0:24:02 - 0:24:02] ▶
a mob boss.
[0:24:02 - 0:24:03] ▶
The closest person we got
[0:24:03 - 0:24:05] ▶
that I was aware of
[0:24:05 - 0:24:07] ▶
was unfortunately
[0:24:07 - 0:24:08] ▶
now deceased
[0:24:08 - 0:24:09] ▶
Vice President Dick Cheney,
[0:24:09 - 0:24:11] ▶
Darth Vader himself.
[0:24:11 - 0:24:13] ▶
Not shocking
[0:24:13 - 0:24:14] ▶
that he was involved
[0:24:14 - 0:24:15] ▶
in this.
[0:24:15 - 0:24:16] ▶
And essentially
[0:24:16 - 0:24:17] ▶
when he left in 2009,
[0:24:17 - 0:24:18] ▶
that was the last time
[0:24:19 - 0:24:20] ▶
that these activities
[0:24:20 - 0:24:21] ▶
really had central leadership.
[0:24:21 - 0:24:22] ▶
I never heard that before.
[0:24:22 - 0:24:24] ▶
So that never came up
[0:24:24 - 0:24:25] ▶
in our classified
[0:24:25 - 0:24:26] ▶
and unclassified conversations.
[0:24:26 - 0:24:28] ▶
I'm not aware
[0:24:28 - 0:24:29] ▶
that Dick Cheney
[0:24:29 - 0:24:30] ▶
had any role.
[0:24:30 - 0:24:30] ▶
To speak to this three-letter,
[0:24:31 - 0:24:32] ▶
the head you cited,
[0:24:32 - 0:24:34] ▶
a three-letter,
[0:24:34 - 0:24:34] ▶
in our discussion
[0:24:35 - 0:24:36] ▶
at Seoul
[0:24:36 - 0:24:36] ▶
in San Francisco,
[0:24:36 - 0:24:37] ▶
you directly said
[0:24:38 - 0:24:39] ▶
CIA, DS, and T.
[0:24:39 - 0:24:41] ▶
At one time,
[0:24:41 - 0:24:41] ▶
Glenn Gaffney, etc.
[0:24:41 - 0:24:42] ▶
So it was the UFO program
[0:24:43 - 0:24:44] ▶
portfolio owner.
[0:24:44 - 0:24:45] ▶
So to Dr. Weinstein's question
[0:24:46 - 0:24:47] ▶
about technical rigor,
[0:24:47 - 0:24:49] ▶
physicists,
[0:24:49 - 0:24:50] ▶
did you ever have
[0:24:50 - 0:24:51] ▶
the opportunity
[0:24:51 - 0:24:52] ▶
to ask anybody
[0:24:52 - 0:24:53] ▶
near the head
[0:24:53 - 0:24:54] ▶
of this apparatus
[0:24:54 - 0:24:55] ▶
why there wasn't
[0:24:55 - 0:24:57] ▶
a stronger motivation
[0:24:57 - 0:24:58] ▶
to have physicists
[0:24:58 - 0:24:59] ▶
on staff?
[0:24:59 - 0:25:00] ▶
I mean,
[0:25:00 - 0:25:00] ▶
from an early era,
[0:25:00 - 0:25:01] ▶
why was there not
[0:25:01 - 0:25:02] ▶
that prioritization?
[0:25:02 - 0:25:04] ▶
Well, I would love
[0:25:04 - 0:25:05] ▶
to talk to the head
[0:25:05 - 0:25:06] ▶
of the crash retrieval program
[0:25:06 - 0:25:07] ▶
during that era,
[0:25:07 - 0:25:08] ▶
but he refused
[0:25:08 - 0:25:09] ▶
to talk to us.
[0:25:09 - 0:25:09] ▶
And that was
[0:25:10 - 0:25:11] ▶
Glenn Gaffney?
[0:25:11 - 0:25:12] ▶
Yeah.
[0:25:12 - 0:25:12] ▶
Glenn Gaffney.
[0:25:13 - 0:25:13] ▶
And who is Jim Ryder?
[0:25:13 - 0:25:15] ▶
He's this Lockheed Martin
[0:25:15 - 0:25:40] ▶
Space Systems guy.
[0:25:40 - 0:25:41] ▶
He was the
[0:25:41 - 0:25:42] ▶
senior vice president
[0:25:42 - 0:25:44] ▶
of the Lockheed Martin
[0:25:44 - 0:25:45] ▶
Space and Missiles Company,
[0:25:45 - 0:25:47] ▶
which is also
[0:25:47 - 0:25:47] ▶
the space systems company.
[0:25:47 - 0:25:51] ▶
And his dual hat job
[0:25:51 - 0:25:53] ▶
was director
[0:25:53 - 0:25:54] ▶
of the company's
[0:25:54 - 0:25:55] ▶
Advanced Technology Center.
[0:25:55 - 0:25:57] ▶
Did he also work
[0:25:58 - 0:25:59] ▶
on UFO crash retrieval initiatives?
[0:25:59 - 0:26:01] ▶
Well, I don't want
[0:26:01 - 0:26:02] ▶
to say that
[0:26:02 - 0:26:03] ▶
or confirm or deny that
[0:26:03 - 0:26:05] ▶
because of the consequence
[0:26:05 - 0:26:06] ▶
to his family.
[0:26:06 - 0:26:07] ▶
One of his daughters
[0:26:07 - 0:26:08] ▶
works there.
[0:26:08 - 0:26:10] ▶
OK, got it.
[0:26:10 - 0:26:10] ▶
It could cause
[0:26:11 - 0:26:11] ▶
your issues, so.
[0:26:11 - 0:26:12] ▶
OK.
[0:26:12 - 0:26:12] ▶
So I can't get
[0:26:13 - 0:26:14] ▶
into that particular detail.
[0:26:14 - 0:26:15] ▶
OK, yeah, no problem.
[0:26:15 - 0:26:17] ▶
Through your,
[0:26:17 - 0:26:17] ▶
I'm so sorry.
[0:26:17 - 0:26:18] ▶
Through your investigations,
[0:26:18 - 0:26:19] ▶
like, did you ever
[0:26:19 - 0:26:20] ▶
encounter technical
[0:26:20 - 0:26:21] ▶
intelligence that you
[0:26:21 - 0:26:22] ▶
considered high credibility
[0:26:22 - 0:26:24] ▶
that seemed like
[0:26:24 - 0:26:26] ▶
it would have had
[0:26:26 - 0:26:26] ▶
to have come
[0:26:26 - 0:26:27] ▶
from direct communication
[0:26:27 - 0:26:29] ▶
with NHI?
[0:26:29 - 0:26:30] ▶
Or did it all seem
[0:26:30 - 0:26:31] ▶
like it could have been
[0:26:31 - 0:26:31] ▶
through passive investigation?
[0:26:31 - 0:26:33] ▶
I couldn't get to that.
[0:26:33 - 0:26:35] ▶
There's two things
[0:26:35 - 0:26:36] ▶
I couldn't get into
[0:26:36 - 0:26:37] ▶
because I didn't have access.
[0:26:37 - 0:26:38] ▶
I didn't have the right
[0:26:39 - 0:26:39] ▶
clarences.
[0:26:39 - 0:26:40] ▶
And I wasn't allowed
[0:26:40 - 0:26:42] ▶
to, let's put it this way,
[0:26:42 - 0:26:44] ▶
there are people
[0:26:44 - 0:26:45] ▶
I was working with
[0:26:45 - 0:26:45] ▶
who knew who to contact,
[0:26:45 - 0:26:47] ▶
but they wouldn't
[0:26:47 - 0:26:47] ▶
give me the contact
[0:26:47 - 0:26:49] ▶
because they were
[0:26:49 - 0:26:50] ▶
not allowed to give out
[0:26:50 - 0:26:51] ▶
the name and organizational
[0:26:51 - 0:26:54] ▶
office or program
[0:26:54 - 0:26:56] ▶
that the individual
[0:26:56 - 0:26:58] ▶
worked at.
[0:26:58 - 0:26:58] ▶
And so they were not
[0:26:58 - 0:27:00] ▶
allowed to share
[0:27:00 - 0:27:00] ▶
that with me.
[0:27:00 - 0:27:00] ▶
So I couldn't get
[0:27:01 - 0:27:01] ▶
into the NHI issue.
[0:27:01 - 0:27:03] ▶
I couldn't get into
[0:27:03 - 0:27:04] ▶
the alien or NHI contact issue.
[0:27:04 - 0:27:06] ▶
The fact that Ryder
[0:27:06 - 0:27:07] ▶
essentially said
[0:27:07 - 0:27:10] ▶
we have no idea
[0:27:10 - 0:27:11] ▶
how this works,
[0:27:11 - 0:27:11] ▶
does that imply to you
[0:27:12 - 0:27:13] ▶
they never had direct,
[0:27:13 - 0:27:14] ▶
they never had the ability
[0:27:14 - 0:27:15] ▶
to ask questions
[0:27:15 - 0:27:16] ▶
of someone with full knowledge
[0:27:16 - 0:27:18] ▶
of the technology?
[0:27:18 - 0:27:18] ▶
Did you ever make
[0:27:19 - 0:27:19] ▶
that connection?
[0:27:19 - 0:27:20] ▶
No, I think Dave Groesch
[0:27:22 - 0:27:23] ▶
was able to make
[0:27:23 - 0:27:23] ▶
that connection.
[0:27:23 - 0:27:24] ▶
I couldn't.
[0:27:24 - 0:27:25] ▶
When you're on
[0:27:25 - 0:27:26] ▶
Age of Disclosure
[0:27:26 - 0:27:27] ▶
and you are saying
[0:27:27 - 0:27:28] ▶
sort of confidently
[0:27:28 - 0:27:29] ▶
that Roswell had,
[0:27:29 - 0:27:31] ▶
you know,
[0:27:31 - 0:27:31] ▶
a certain number of beings,
[0:27:31 - 0:27:32] ▶
one of the beings
[0:27:32 - 0:27:33] ▶
probably survived,
[0:27:33 - 0:27:35] ▶
is...
[0:27:35 - 0:27:36] ▶
That I don't know.
[0:27:36 - 0:27:36] ▶
You know,
[0:27:37 - 0:27:37] ▶
that's a point of information
[0:27:37 - 0:27:39] ▶
I have never gotten
[0:27:39 - 0:27:41] ▶
in any of my
[0:27:41 - 0:27:42] ▶
official government interviews
[0:27:42 - 0:27:44] ▶
or even unofficial
[0:27:44 - 0:27:46] ▶
off-the-record interviews
[0:27:46 - 0:27:47] ▶
is that any of these
[0:27:47 - 0:27:50] ▶
aliens ever lived.
[0:27:50 - 0:27:51] ▶
This is coming
[0:27:51 - 0:27:52] ▶
from a different avenue
[0:27:52 - 0:27:53] ▶
and I don't recall
[0:27:53 - 0:27:55] ▶
Dave Groesch telling me
[0:27:55 - 0:27:56] ▶
that that was the case,
[0:27:56 - 0:27:57] ▶
but I won't dismiss it offhand.
[0:27:58 - 0:28:00] ▶
It's just that
[0:28:00 - 0:28:00] ▶
it's not a piece of data
[0:28:00 - 0:28:02] ▶
that ever came my way
[0:28:02 - 0:28:03] ▶
after 30 years.
[0:28:03 - 0:28:04] ▶
As part of your
[0:28:04 - 0:28:05] ▶
official investigations
[0:28:05 - 0:28:06] ▶
in OSAP,
[0:28:06 - 0:28:07] ▶
you were making sure
[0:28:08 - 0:28:09] ▶
that your sources
[0:28:09 - 0:28:10] ▶
were completely uncorrelated,
[0:28:10 - 0:28:12] ▶
right?
[0:28:12 - 0:28:12] ▶
They weren't speaking
[0:28:12 - 0:28:13] ▶
to each other
[0:28:13 - 0:28:14] ▶
behind closed doors.
[0:28:14 - 0:28:15] ▶
They wouldn't be able to
[0:28:15 - 0:28:16] ▶
because they were
[0:28:16 - 0:28:17] ▶
in compartmentalized programs.
[0:28:17 - 0:28:18] ▶
Yeah.
[0:28:19 - 0:28:19] ▶
And we had
[0:28:19 - 0:28:19] ▶
compartmentalized
[0:28:19 - 0:28:20] ▶
clearances ourselves
[0:28:20 - 0:28:22] ▶
so we could only talk
[0:28:22 - 0:28:22] ▶
to them at a certain level.
[0:28:22 - 0:28:23] ▶
And even us,
[0:28:24 - 0:28:25] ▶
we could not get
[0:28:25 - 0:28:26] ▶
special access program
[0:28:26 - 0:28:27] ▶
clearanced
[0:28:27 - 0:28:28] ▶
because the VP
[0:28:28 - 0:28:30] ▶
of Lockheed Martin
[0:28:30 - 0:28:31] ▶
there was a VP
[0:28:31 - 0:28:34] ▶
of TRW
[0:28:34 - 0:28:35] ▶
before it got bought out
[0:28:35 - 0:28:37] ▶
by Northrop Grumman.
[0:28:37 - 0:28:38] ▶
These guys,
[0:28:39 - 0:28:40] ▶
they may know
[0:28:40 - 0:28:42] ▶
about each other,
[0:28:42 - 0:28:43] ▶
but they're not read in
[0:28:43 - 0:28:45] ▶
on each other's programs
[0:28:45 - 0:28:46] ▶
because that's what
[0:28:46 - 0:28:46] ▶
compartmentalization meant.
[0:28:46 - 0:28:47] ▶
It meant that
[0:28:47 - 0:28:48] ▶
they may know
[0:28:48 - 0:28:51] ▶
about each other
[0:28:51 - 0:28:51] ▶
through the portfolio owner,
[0:28:51 - 0:28:54] ▶
but they're not allowed
[0:28:54 - 0:28:55] ▶
to communicate
[0:28:55 - 0:28:56] ▶
because of that
[0:28:56 - 0:28:56] ▶
compartmentalization.
[0:28:56 - 0:28:57] ▶
and so where was I going?
[0:28:57 - 0:29:00] ▶
I think I lost
[0:29:00 - 0:29:01] ▶
my train of thought.
[0:29:01 - 0:29:01] ▶
I'm sorry.
[0:29:01 - 0:29:02] ▶
Well, tell me about
[0:29:02 - 0:29:03] ▶
George H.W. Bush,
[0:29:03 - 0:29:04] ▶
Bush 41.
[0:29:04 - 0:29:05] ▶
Well, that's separate.
[0:29:05 - 0:29:06] ▶
That's separate.
[0:29:06 - 0:29:06] ▶
Yeah, totally separate.
[0:29:06 - 0:29:07] ▶
But yeah,
[0:29:07 - 0:29:08] ▶
just wanted to ask you
[0:29:08 - 0:29:09] ▶
about your interactions
[0:29:09 - 0:29:10] ▶
with him
[0:29:10 - 0:29:10] ▶
because it seemed like
[0:29:10 - 0:29:12] ▶
from your accounting,
[0:29:12 - 0:29:14] ▶
he wasn't fully aware
[0:29:14 - 0:29:16] ▶
of the UFO
[0:29:16 - 0:29:16] ▶
crash retrieval program,
[0:29:16 - 0:29:18] ▶
but he became aware
[0:29:18 - 0:29:19] ▶
of it through
[0:29:19 - 0:29:19] ▶
some interesting gains.
[0:29:19 - 0:29:20] ▶
Well, he became
[0:29:20 - 0:29:21] ▶
Gerald Ford's
[0:29:21 - 0:29:23] ▶
CIA director.
[0:29:23 - 0:29:24] ▶
So Gerald Ford
[0:29:24 - 0:29:25] ▶
became president.
[0:29:25 - 0:29:26] ▶
He nominated Bush
[0:29:26 - 0:29:27] ▶
and Bush got confirmed
[0:29:27 - 0:29:28] ▶
and he became
[0:29:28 - 0:29:29] ▶
the CIA director.
[0:29:29 - 0:29:30] ▶
So he goes into this
[0:29:30 - 0:29:31] ▶
for his first briefing
[0:29:31 - 0:29:32] ▶
as director of the CIA.
[0:29:32 - 0:29:33] ▶
The first thing
[0:29:34 - 0:29:34] ▶
that came out
[0:29:34 - 0:29:35] ▶
of this briefer's mouth
[0:29:35 - 0:29:36] ▶
was the Holloman landing
[0:29:36 - 0:29:38] ▶
in April 1964
[0:29:38 - 0:29:39] ▶
at Holloman Air Force Base
[0:29:39 - 0:29:41] ▶
in New Mexico.
[0:29:41 - 0:29:42] ▶
So he started briefing
[0:29:42 - 0:29:43] ▶
Bush on that
[0:29:43 - 0:29:44] ▶
and Bush said,
[0:29:44 - 0:29:45] ▶
what are you talking about?
[0:29:45 - 0:29:46] ▶
I've never heard
[0:29:46 - 0:29:47] ▶
of this before.
[0:29:47 - 0:29:47] ▶
Describe what this is
[0:29:48 - 0:29:49] ▶
for the audience.
[0:29:49 - 0:29:49] ▶
So to make a long story short,
[0:29:49 - 0:29:52] ▶
three craft
[0:29:53 - 0:29:54] ▶
UAP craft,
[0:29:54 - 0:29:55] ▶
UFO craft came in.
[0:29:55 - 0:29:56] ▶
One of them landed
[0:29:56 - 0:29:57] ▶
not on the runway
[0:29:57 - 0:29:58] ▶
but on the tarmac
[0:29:58 - 0:29:59] ▶
close to a hangar.
[0:29:59 - 0:30:01] ▶
The other two took off
[0:30:01 - 0:30:02] ▶
and a gangway
[0:30:02 - 0:30:04] ▶
came down,
[0:30:04 - 0:30:04] ▶
extended down
[0:30:05 - 0:30:06] ▶
and down comes
[0:30:06 - 0:30:07] ▶
a humanoid looking,
[0:30:07 - 0:30:08] ▶
very tall
[0:30:09 - 0:30:10] ▶
NHI being.
[0:30:10 - 0:30:13] ▶
He looked
[0:30:14 - 0:30:15] ▶
of Northern European descent.
[0:30:15 - 0:30:17] ▶
So he goes
[0:30:17 - 0:30:18] ▶
and meets with them
[0:30:18 - 0:30:18] ▶
and they go
[0:30:18 - 0:30:19] ▶
into that hangar
[0:30:19 - 0:30:19] ▶
and that hangar
[0:30:19 - 0:30:20] ▶
turned out to be
[0:30:20 - 0:30:21] ▶
the equivalent
[0:30:21 - 0:30:21] ▶
back in those days
[0:30:21 - 0:30:22] ▶
of a special access
[0:30:22 - 0:30:23] ▶
program hangar.
[0:30:23 - 0:30:24] ▶
It's all secured.
[0:30:24 - 0:30:25] ▶
They've got guards
[0:30:25 - 0:30:26] ▶
around it.
[0:30:26 - 0:30:26] ▶
That's the end
[0:30:26 - 0:30:27] ▶
of the story.
[0:30:27 - 0:30:28] ▶
So this film
[0:30:28 - 0:30:29] ▶
was made of it
[0:30:29 - 0:30:30] ▶
and this story
[0:30:30 - 0:30:31] ▶
has circulated
[0:30:31 - 0:30:32] ▶
at various times.
[0:30:32 - 0:30:33] ▶
The Defense Audiovisual Agency
[0:30:33 - 0:30:35] ▶
under the command
[0:30:35 - 0:30:36] ▶
of two retired generals,
[0:30:36 - 0:30:38] ▶
I think Jerry Miller
[0:30:39 - 0:30:40] ▶
was the name
[0:30:40 - 0:30:41] ▶
of one of them.
[0:30:41 - 0:30:42] ▶
I don't remember
[0:30:42 - 0:30:43] ▶
the name of the other.
[0:30:43 - 0:30:43] ▶
Jacques Vallée
[0:30:43 - 0:30:44] ▶
talks about them
[0:30:44 - 0:30:45] ▶
in his book
[0:30:45 - 0:30:46] ▶
Revelations,
[0:30:46 - 0:30:47] ▶
I think it is.
[0:30:47 - 0:30:48] ▶
and he and Alan Hynek
[0:30:48 - 0:30:50] ▶
were invited
[0:30:50 - 0:30:52] ▶
to go to the DAVA
[0:30:52 - 0:30:53] ▶
and see that film,
[0:30:53 - 0:30:55] ▶
get access to the film
[0:30:55 - 0:30:56] ▶
and see it.
[0:30:56 - 0:30:57] ▶
So they got there
[0:30:57 - 0:30:58] ▶
and apparently
[0:30:58 - 0:30:59] ▶
they were not allowed
[0:30:59 - 0:31:00] ▶
to see that video
[0:31:00 - 0:31:01] ▶
because one of those
[0:31:01 - 0:31:02] ▶
two generals
[0:31:02 - 0:31:02] ▶
said that they got
[0:31:02 - 0:31:04] ▶
intercepted
[0:31:04 - 0:31:05] ▶
or somebody got
[0:31:05 - 0:31:08] ▶
in the middle of that
[0:31:08 - 0:31:09] ▶
and convinced them
[0:31:09 - 0:31:11] ▶
not to allow
[0:31:11 - 0:31:12] ▶
Belay and Hynek
[0:31:12 - 0:31:14] ▶
to see that film.
[0:31:14 - 0:31:16] ▶
You do have this fact pattern
[0:31:16 - 0:31:17] ▶
over decades
[0:31:17 - 0:31:18] ▶
of, you know,
[0:31:18 - 0:31:20] ▶
this sort of
[0:31:20 - 0:31:21] ▶
luring in
[0:31:21 - 0:31:22] ▶
of various,
[0:31:22 - 0:31:23] ▶
you know,
[0:31:23 - 0:31:23] ▶
UFO researchers
[0:31:23 - 0:31:24] ▶
and presentation
[0:31:24 - 0:31:25] ▶
of passage material
[0:31:25 - 0:31:27] ▶
which is, you know,
[0:31:27 - 0:31:28] ▶
material that
[0:31:28 - 0:31:29] ▶
might have
[0:31:29 - 0:31:30] ▶
some truth in it
[0:31:30 - 0:31:31] ▶
but it's also sprinkled
[0:31:31 - 0:31:32] ▶
with falsities
[0:31:32 - 0:31:33] ▶
so that, you know,
[0:31:33 - 0:31:34] ▶
the researchers
[0:31:34 - 0:31:35] ▶
can be discredited.
[0:31:35 - 0:31:36] ▶
So why now
[0:31:36 - 0:31:38] ▶
is there this line
[0:31:38 - 0:31:39] ▶
in the sand
[0:31:39 - 0:31:39] ▶
where we should trust
[0:31:39 - 0:31:40] ▶
that there is
[0:31:40 - 0:31:42] ▶
this real UFO
[0:31:42 - 0:31:43] ▶
legacy crash retrieval
[0:31:43 - 0:31:44] ▶
program going on?
[0:31:44 - 0:31:45] ▶
You know,
[0:31:45 - 0:31:45] ▶
I'm kind of thinking
[0:31:45 - 0:31:46] ▶
maybe it all began
[0:31:46 - 0:31:48] ▶
with, uh,
[0:31:48 - 0:31:49] ▶
Kelleher Knapp
[0:31:50 - 0:31:51] ▶
and Lekatsky's
[0:31:51 - 0:31:52] ▶
first book,
[0:31:52 - 0:31:52] ▶
Skinwalkers at the Pentagon.
[0:31:53 - 0:31:54] ▶
I think that started it off.
[0:31:54 - 0:31:55] ▶
And then, uh,
[0:31:56 - 0:31:57] ▶
Lekatsky did his first book
[0:31:57 - 0:31:59] ▶
and then out
[0:31:59 - 0:31:59] ▶
his second book last year
[0:31:59 - 0:32:00] ▶
and I think he's got
[0:32:00 - 0:32:01] ▶
a third one coming out.
[0:32:01 - 0:32:02] ▶
And then Lou Elizondo's
[0:32:02 - 0:32:03] ▶
book came out.
[0:32:03 - 0:32:04] ▶
And so I think
[0:32:04 - 0:32:05] ▶
this is a crescendo
[0:32:05 - 0:32:06] ▶
of things
[0:32:06 - 0:32:07] ▶
that have come together
[0:32:07 - 0:32:08] ▶
in the right time,
[0:32:08 - 0:32:09] ▶
the right place,
[0:32:10 - 0:32:10] ▶
the right people
[0:32:10 - 0:32:11] ▶
and that's why
[0:32:11 - 0:32:12] ▶
this is happening.
[0:32:12 - 0:32:13] ▶
And if you're Stratton
[0:32:13 - 0:32:14] ▶
and you,
[0:32:14 - 0:32:15] ▶
you're hosting,
[0:32:15 - 0:32:15] ▶
because he was the guy
[0:32:16 - 0:32:17] ▶
who ran the UAPTF,
[0:32:17 - 0:32:18] ▶
the UAP task force.
[0:32:18 - 0:32:19] ▶
That's right.
[0:32:19 - 0:32:19] ▶
And so,
[0:32:20 - 0:32:20] ▶
But he also was
[0:32:20 - 0:32:22] ▶
working, uh,
[0:32:22 - 0:32:23] ▶
with Jim Lekatsky
[0:32:23 - 0:32:24] ▶
on the OSAP.
[0:32:24 - 0:32:25] ▶
He was at DIA
[0:32:25 - 0:32:26] ▶
at the time.
[0:32:26 - 0:32:27] ▶
So they have,
[0:32:27 - 0:32:27] ▶
I don't know if you knew that.
[0:32:27 - 0:32:28] ▶
I didn't know that.
[0:32:29 - 0:32:29] ▶
He and Lekatsky
[0:32:30 - 0:32:31] ▶
are the ones
[0:32:31 - 0:32:31] ▶
that built the OSAP
[0:32:31 - 0:32:32] ▶
program together.
[0:32:32 - 0:32:33] ▶
Yeah.
[0:32:34 - 0:32:34] ▶
So it wasn't just
[0:32:34 - 0:32:35] ▶
Jim Lekatsky alone.
[0:32:35 - 0:32:36] ▶
It was Jim and Jay
[0:32:36 - 0:32:37] ▶
and their support staff.
[0:32:37 - 0:32:39] ▶
There's, you know,
[0:32:40 - 0:32:40] ▶
the DIA and,
[0:32:41 - 0:32:41] ▶
and contractor staff
[0:32:41 - 0:32:43] ▶
that supported them.
[0:32:43 - 0:32:43] ▶
So Jay was involved
[0:32:43 - 0:32:45] ▶
with the OSAP
[0:32:45 - 0:32:46] ▶
from the very beginning.
[0:32:46 - 0:32:47] ▶
And then,
[0:32:47 - 0:32:48] ▶
but then we,
[0:32:48 - 0:32:48] ▶
we talk about OSAP,
[0:32:48 - 0:32:50] ▶
ATIP,
[0:32:50 - 0:32:50] ▶
these sorts of programs
[0:32:50 - 0:32:51] ▶
that are, you know,
[0:32:51 - 0:32:52] ▶
very small dollar amounts,
[0:32:52 - 0:32:54] ▶
you know, vis-a-vis.
[0:32:54 - 0:32:55] ▶
$22 million,
[0:32:55 - 0:32:56] ▶
but the inflation adjusted
[0:32:56 - 0:32:58] ▶
Manhattan project.
[0:32:58 - 0:32:59] ▶
Yeah.
[0:32:59 - 0:32:59] ▶
Harry Reid had an intention
[0:32:59 - 0:33:01] ▶
on turning into it,
[0:33:01 - 0:33:02] ▶
turning it into
[0:33:02 - 0:33:03] ▶
a Manhattan project.
[0:33:03 - 0:33:04] ▶
He was intent,
[0:33:04 - 0:33:05] ▶
this was like,
[0:33:06 - 0:33:06] ▶
just to get it started.
[0:33:06 - 0:33:07] ▶
And then the subsequent
[0:33:08 - 0:33:09] ▶
fiscal years
[0:33:09 - 0:33:11] ▶
that would follow,
[0:33:11 - 0:33:11] ▶
he was intending
[0:33:12 - 0:33:12] ▶
this to go like,
[0:33:12 - 0:33:13] ▶
maybe a decade
[0:33:13 - 0:33:14] ▶
with worth a billion dollars,
[0:33:14 - 0:33:17] ▶
maybe $2 billion
[0:33:17 - 0:33:17] ▶
worth of programmatics.
[0:33:17 - 0:33:19] ▶
But you were
[0:33:19 - 0:33:19] ▶
simultaneously saying
[0:33:19 - 0:33:21] ▶
there is an underlying
[0:33:21 - 0:33:22] ▶
program that is a legacy
[0:33:22 - 0:33:24] ▶
reverse engineering program.
[0:33:24 - 0:33:25] ▶
That is.
[0:33:25 - 0:33:26] ▶
Yeah, that's,
[0:33:26 - 0:33:26] ▶
this, this came after the fact.
[0:33:26 - 0:33:28] ▶
And that has to be.
[0:33:28 - 0:33:29] ▶
We were trying to get
[0:33:29 - 0:33:30] ▶
into the crash retrieval program.
[0:33:30 - 0:33:31] ▶
Our, our goal,
[0:33:32 - 0:33:33] ▶
was to get after it
[0:33:33 - 0:33:34] ▶
and co-opt it
[0:33:34 - 0:33:36] ▶
into the OSAP
[0:33:36 - 0:33:37] ▶
so we could do
[0:33:37 - 0:33:39] ▶
what the goals
[0:33:39 - 0:33:39] ▶
of the OSAP
[0:33:39 - 0:33:40] ▶
wanted us to do.
[0:33:40 - 0:33:41] ▶
And I don't think
[0:33:41 - 0:33:42] ▶
that was necessarily
[0:33:42 - 0:33:43] ▶
to bring it out
[0:33:43 - 0:33:44] ▶
in the public domain.
[0:33:44 - 0:33:45] ▶
That was to keep it
[0:33:45 - 0:33:45] ▶
classified anyway.
[0:33:45 - 0:33:48] ▶
But our job was
[0:33:48 - 0:33:49] ▶
to get access to it
[0:33:49 - 0:33:51] ▶
because we were not convinced
[0:33:51 - 0:33:52] ▶
that there was
[0:33:52 - 0:33:53] ▶
any progress made.
[0:33:53 - 0:33:54] ▶
And as a matter of fact,
[0:33:54 - 0:33:55] ▶
the senior VP
[0:33:55 - 0:33:56] ▶
at one of the aerospace
[0:33:56 - 0:33:57] ▶
corporations,
[0:33:57 - 0:33:58] ▶
who I had
[0:33:58 - 0:33:59] ▶
years worth
[0:33:59 - 0:34:00] ▶
of interviews with
[0:34:00 - 0:34:01] ▶
before and after
[0:34:01 - 0:34:03] ▶
he retired,
[0:34:03 - 0:34:03] ▶
confirmed that
[0:34:04 - 0:34:05] ▶
there was no success
[0:34:05 - 0:34:07] ▶
in the reverse engineering
[0:34:07 - 0:34:09] ▶
program after eight decades.
[0:34:09 - 0:34:10] ▶
And it just didn't go anywhere.
[0:34:10 - 0:34:12] ▶
They had modest success.
[0:34:12 - 0:34:13] ▶
Like they understood
[0:34:13 - 0:34:14] ▶
the materials
[0:34:14 - 0:34:14] ▶
that craft were made from.
[0:34:14 - 0:34:16] ▶
They figured out
[0:34:16 - 0:34:17] ▶
how they were constructed,
[0:34:17 - 0:34:18] ▶
but we couldn't
[0:34:18 - 0:34:18] ▶
reproduce any of it.
[0:34:18 - 0:34:19] ▶
We had no technology.
[0:34:20 - 0:34:20] ▶
We had no fabrication
[0:34:21 - 0:34:23] ▶
or manufacturing technology
[0:34:23 - 0:34:24] ▶
at the time
[0:34:24 - 0:34:25] ▶
of the crash retrieval programs
[0:34:25 - 0:34:27] ▶
when they were fully funded
[0:34:27 - 0:34:28] ▶
and fully operating
[0:34:28 - 0:34:29] ▶
to figure that out.
[0:34:29 - 0:34:31] ▶
We could just use
[0:34:31 - 0:34:31] ▶
our SEM
[0:34:31 - 0:34:32] ▶
and transmission
[0:34:32 - 0:34:34] ▶
SEM microscopes
[0:34:34 - 0:34:35] ▶
and other advanced
[0:34:35 - 0:34:36] ▶
condensed matter state
[0:34:36 - 0:34:40] ▶
diagnostic tools
[0:34:40 - 0:34:42] ▶
and evaluate it,
[0:34:42 - 0:34:43] ▶
look at it,
[0:34:43 - 0:34:44] ▶
look at it down
[0:34:44 - 0:34:45] ▶
into the,
[0:34:45 - 0:34:45] ▶
you know,
[0:34:45 - 0:34:46] ▶
almost nanoscale.
[0:34:46 - 0:34:47] ▶
And we could see
[0:34:48 - 0:34:48] ▶
how the materials
[0:34:48 - 0:34:49] ▶
were assembled,
[0:34:49 - 0:34:50] ▶
but we could not figure out
[0:34:50 - 0:34:52] ▶
how to reproduce
[0:34:52 - 0:34:53] ▶
that process.
[0:34:53 - 0:34:54] ▶
If we have made
[0:34:54 - 0:34:55] ▶
no progress,
[0:34:55 - 0:34:56] ▶
why aren't we more open
[0:34:56 - 0:34:57] ▶
with the scientific community?
[0:34:57 - 0:34:59] ▶
That's the security aspect of it.
[0:34:59 - 0:35:01] ▶
I,
[0:35:01 - 0:35:01] ▶
I'm not involved
[0:35:02 - 0:35:03] ▶
with that policy aspect.
[0:35:03 - 0:35:04] ▶
I don't have contact
[0:35:04 - 0:35:05] ▶
with the people
[0:35:05 - 0:35:06] ▶
that make the policy on that,
[0:35:06 - 0:35:07] ▶
so I can't answer that.
[0:35:07 - 0:35:08] ▶
But you,
[0:35:08 - 0:35:09] ▶
you are.
[0:35:09 - 0:35:09] ▶
It's not that I don't want to.
[0:35:10 - 0:35:10] ▶
I just don't know.
[0:35:10 - 0:35:11] ▶
No, no, no, I get it.
[0:35:11 - 0:35:12] ▶
And you're saying confidently
[0:35:12 - 0:35:14] ▶
that there are
[0:35:14 - 0:35:15] ▶
billion dollar budgets
[0:35:15 - 0:35:16] ▶
involved in the actual
[0:35:16 - 0:35:17] ▶
core UFO legacy.
[0:35:17 - 0:35:19] ▶
I don't know.
[0:35:19 - 0:35:19] ▶
I don't know that it's that much.
[0:35:19 - 0:35:21] ▶
It was on that order
[0:35:21 - 0:35:22] ▶
from my interviews
[0:35:22 - 0:35:24] ▶
with TRW
[0:35:24 - 0:35:25] ▶
and Lockheed Martin people.
[0:35:25 - 0:35:27] ▶
That,
[0:35:28 - 0:35:29] ▶
that was the order
[0:35:29 - 0:35:30] ▶
of magnitude
[0:35:30 - 0:35:32] ▶
of the budget expenditures
[0:35:32 - 0:35:33] ▶
that were given,
[0:35:33 - 0:35:35] ▶
not on an annual basis,
[0:35:35 - 0:35:36] ▶
but it was more like
[0:35:36 - 0:35:37] ▶
maybe over a
[0:35:37 - 0:35:38] ▶
five to 10 year period.
[0:35:38 - 0:35:40] ▶
But then the budget
[0:35:40 - 0:35:42] ▶
would go up and down,
[0:35:42 - 0:35:43] ▶
just like NASA's budget
[0:35:43 - 0:35:44] ▶
would go up and down.
[0:35:44 - 0:35:45] ▶
So the budgets would go up
[0:35:45 - 0:35:46] ▶
and they'd have,
[0:35:46 - 0:35:46] ▶
they'd be flush with money,
[0:35:47 - 0:35:48] ▶
get in,
[0:35:48 - 0:35:48] ▶
get a few more people in,
[0:35:49 - 0:35:50] ▶
get some better
[0:35:50 - 0:35:51] ▶
equipment in the lab.
[0:35:51 - 0:35:52] ▶
And then the budget
[0:35:52 - 0:35:54] ▶
gets cut
[0:35:54 - 0:35:54] ▶
and they got to go
[0:35:54 - 0:35:56] ▶
to bare minimum operation.
[0:35:56 - 0:35:58] ▶
People get laid off
[0:35:58 - 0:35:59] ▶
and whatever.
[0:35:59 - 0:35:59] ▶
I wanted to ask you,
[0:35:59 - 0:36:00] ▶
you know,
[0:36:01 - 0:36:01] ▶
there's this sort of,
[0:36:01 - 0:36:02] ▶
not even lore,
[0:36:02 - 0:36:03] ▶
there is a document
[0:36:03 - 0:36:04] ▶
called the Wilson Davis memo.
[0:36:04 - 0:36:06] ▶
You get asked about it
[0:36:06 - 0:36:07] ▶
all the time.
[0:36:07 - 0:36:07] ▶
It's a kind of
[0:36:08 - 0:36:09] ▶
apocryphal meeting
[0:36:09 - 0:36:11] ▶
that occurred
[0:36:11 - 0:36:12] ▶
between you
[0:36:12 - 0:36:12] ▶
and Admiral Thomas Wilson.
[0:36:12 - 0:36:14] ▶
UFOs or something.
[0:36:14 - 0:36:15] ▶
That's right.
[0:36:15 - 0:36:16] ▶
The last gospel
[0:36:16 - 0:36:17] ▶
of the Bible.
[0:36:17 - 0:36:17] ▶
You are famous
[0:36:17 - 0:36:18] ▶
for your meticulous
[0:36:18 - 0:36:19] ▶
note-taking
[0:36:19 - 0:36:20] ▶
and apparently
[0:36:20 - 0:36:22] ▶
this meeting
[0:36:22 - 0:36:23] ▶
took place
[0:36:23 - 0:36:23] ▶
in the EG&G parking lot
[0:36:23 - 0:36:25] ▶
and it is this,
[0:36:25 - 0:36:26] ▶
you know,
[0:36:26 - 0:36:26] ▶
Admiral who is head
[0:36:26 - 0:36:27] ▶
of J2 Joint Chiefs.
[0:36:27 - 0:36:29] ▶
No, he was retired
[0:36:29 - 0:36:30] ▶
at the time.
[0:36:30 - 0:36:30] ▶
He was retired at the time.
[0:36:30 - 0:36:31] ▶
He was.
[0:36:31 - 0:36:31] ▶
He got called back
[0:36:31 - 0:36:32] ▶
into active duty
[0:36:32 - 0:36:32] ▶
for a short period of time
[0:36:32 - 0:36:34] ▶
because he had to close out
[0:36:34 - 0:36:35] ▶
a project
[0:36:35 - 0:36:36] ▶
at Area 51
[0:36:36 - 0:36:37] ▶
that he was responsible
[0:36:37 - 0:36:38] ▶
for under his office
[0:36:38 - 0:36:39] ▶
at the DIA
[0:36:39 - 0:36:40] ▶
that he initiated
[0:36:40 - 0:36:42] ▶
and it was
[0:36:42 - 0:36:44] ▶
a complicated project.
[0:36:44 - 0:36:45] ▶
He couldn't tell me
[0:36:45 - 0:36:46] ▶
because I didn't have
[0:36:46 - 0:36:47] ▶
that kind of level
[0:36:47 - 0:36:48] ▶
of access
[0:36:48 - 0:36:49] ▶
or anything like that.
[0:36:49 - 0:36:50] ▶
So all I know
[0:36:50 - 0:36:51] ▶
is he said,
[0:36:51 - 0:36:52] ▶
I'm back
[0:36:52 - 0:36:53] ▶
because I've got
[0:36:53 - 0:36:53] ▶
to go back up
[0:36:53 - 0:36:54] ▶
into that.
[0:36:54 - 0:36:55] ▶
He wouldn't say
[0:36:55 - 0:36:56] ▶
Area 51.
[0:36:56 - 0:36:57] ▶
I knew what he was
[0:36:57 - 0:36:58] ▶
talking about.
[0:36:58 - 0:36:58] ▶
He was saying
[0:36:58 - 0:36:58] ▶
he used the word
[0:36:58 - 0:37:00] ▶
back in those days,
[0:37:00 - 0:37:00] ▶
the undeclared
[0:37:01 - 0:37:01] ▶
or unacknowledged
[0:37:01 - 0:37:03] ▶
facility near
[0:37:03 - 0:37:04] ▶
the Nevada test site
[0:37:04 - 0:37:05] ▶
and you have to go
[0:37:05 - 0:37:05] ▶
back there
[0:37:05 - 0:37:06] ▶
because they need
[0:37:06 - 0:37:07] ▶
to close out
[0:37:07 - 0:37:07] ▶
a major project
[0:37:07 - 0:37:08] ▶
he initiated
[0:37:08 - 0:37:09] ▶
when he was
[0:37:09 - 0:37:10] ▶
active duty
[0:37:10 - 0:37:10] ▶
DIA director
[0:37:10 - 0:37:11] ▶
and so he was
[0:37:11 - 0:37:14] ▶
willing to meet
[0:37:14 - 0:37:14] ▶
with me
[0:37:14 - 0:37:14] ▶
at the behest
[0:37:14 - 0:37:15] ▶
of two guys
[0:37:15 - 0:37:15] ▶
at the National
[0:37:15 - 0:37:16] ▶
Nuclear Security Agency
[0:37:16 - 0:37:17] ▶
that I personally knew.
[0:37:17 - 0:37:18] ▶
John Alexander
[0:37:19 - 0:37:19] ▶
and I knew them.
[0:37:19 - 0:37:20] ▶
We were all members
[0:37:21 - 0:37:21] ▶
of the Association
[0:37:21 - 0:37:22] ▶
of Former Intelligence Officers.
[0:37:22 - 0:37:24] ▶
We were forming
[0:37:24 - 0:37:25] ▶
a Las Vegas chapter
[0:37:25 - 0:37:26] ▶
in 2002.
[0:37:26 - 0:37:27] ▶
So these guys
[0:37:28 - 0:37:29] ▶
were in Las Vegas
[0:37:29 - 0:37:30] ▶
because one of them
[0:37:30 - 0:37:31] ▶
is the director
[0:37:31 - 0:37:31] ▶
of intelligence
[0:37:31 - 0:37:32] ▶
at the NNSA site
[0:37:32 - 0:37:34] ▶
in Nevada
[0:37:34 - 0:37:35] ▶
and the other one
[0:37:35 - 0:37:36] ▶
was the director
[0:37:36 - 0:37:37] ▶
of counterintelligence
[0:37:37 - 0:37:38] ▶
at the NNSA site
[0:37:38 - 0:37:41] ▶
as well.
[0:37:41 - 0:37:41] ▶
And so at least
[0:37:41 - 0:37:42] ▶
formerly Wilson
[0:37:42 - 0:37:43] ▶
was supposed to have
[0:37:43 - 0:37:44] ▶
all military tech
[0:37:44 - 0:37:45] ▶
under his purview,
[0:37:45 - 0:37:46] ▶
under his scope
[0:37:46 - 0:37:47] ▶
and he's expressing
[0:37:47 - 0:37:48] ▶
a lot of frustration
[0:37:48 - 0:37:49] ▶
to you, right,
[0:37:49 - 0:37:50] ▶
that he's just met
[0:37:50 - 0:37:51] ▶
with this private corporation.
[0:37:51 - 0:37:53] ▶
This is back in 97.
[0:37:53 - 0:37:54] ▶
This is in 97.
[0:37:54 - 0:37:55] ▶
The summer of 97.
[0:37:55 - 0:37:56] ▶
And he's saying
[0:37:56 - 0:37:57] ▶
he's saying
[0:37:57 - 0:37:58] ▶
there's this team
[0:37:58 - 0:38:00] ▶
of people
[0:38:00 - 0:38:01] ▶
in the hundreds
[0:38:01 - 0:38:01] ▶
of people
[0:38:01 - 0:38:02] ▶
and they have
[0:38:02 - 0:38:03] ▶
this material
[0:38:03 - 0:38:05] ▶
that doesn't seem
[0:38:05 - 0:38:06] ▶
to be of human origin
[0:38:06 - 0:38:07] ▶
and progress
[0:38:07 - 0:38:08] ▶
is sort of slow
[0:38:08 - 0:38:09] ▶
and cumbersome
[0:38:09 - 0:38:10] ▶
but that he,
[0:38:10 - 0:38:11] ▶
for whatever reason,
[0:38:11 - 0:38:12] ▶
wasn't supervising
[0:38:12 - 0:38:14] ▶
or overseeing it
[0:38:14 - 0:38:15] ▶
even though he should have been.
[0:38:15 - 0:38:15] ▶
It's that he,
[0:38:15 - 0:38:17] ▶
they claim he didn't
[0:38:17 - 0:38:19] ▶
have need to know
[0:38:19 - 0:38:19] ▶
and that's possible.
[0:38:19 - 0:38:20] ▶
Their budget
[0:38:21 - 0:38:22] ▶
came from his.
[0:38:22 - 0:38:23] ▶
In other words,
[0:38:23 - 0:38:24] ▶
their funding,
[0:38:24 - 0:38:25] ▶
I'm sorry,
[0:38:25 - 0:38:25] ▶
their funding came
[0:38:25 - 0:38:26] ▶
from his director's budget,
[0:38:26 - 0:38:29] ▶
the budget he gets
[0:38:29 - 0:38:30] ▶
as a director.
[0:38:30 - 0:38:30] ▶
This was DIA money
[0:38:30 - 0:38:32] ▶
that he wasn't aware of.
[0:38:32 - 0:38:33] ▶
He wasn't aware
[0:38:33 - 0:38:34] ▶
because this is a Woosap.
[0:38:34 - 0:38:37] ▶
He hadn't been read in on it.
[0:38:37 - 0:38:38] ▶
And so,
[0:38:39 - 0:38:39] ▶
when you deal
[0:38:40 - 0:38:41] ▶
with budget line items
[0:38:41 - 0:38:43] ▶
for these things,
[0:38:43 - 0:38:43] ▶
they're just innocuous
[0:38:44 - 0:38:45] ▶
budget codes
[0:38:45 - 0:38:45] ▶
that a comptroller general
[0:38:45 - 0:38:47] ▶
of the Defense Department
[0:38:47 - 0:38:49] ▶
or the military services
[0:38:49 - 0:38:50] ▶
or the U.S. government
[0:38:50 - 0:38:51] ▶
understands
[0:38:51 - 0:38:52] ▶
how to read
[0:38:52 - 0:38:53] ▶
a budget code
[0:38:53 - 0:38:54] ▶
and then a standard
[0:38:54 - 0:38:56] ▶
plain English description
[0:38:56 - 0:38:57] ▶
is deliberately
[0:38:57 - 0:38:58] ▶
meant to be vague
[0:38:58 - 0:38:59] ▶
so you can identify it.
[0:38:59 - 0:39:01] ▶
That way,
[0:39:01 - 0:39:01] ▶
if the budget document
[0:39:01 - 0:39:02] ▶
gets captured
[0:39:02 - 0:39:03] ▶
by espionage assets
[0:39:03 - 0:39:05] ▶
from foreign nations,
[0:39:05 - 0:39:07] ▶
foreign adversaries,
[0:39:07 - 0:39:08] ▶
they won't understand
[0:39:08 - 0:39:09] ▶
what the hell it is.
[0:39:09 - 0:39:10] ▶
So,
[0:39:10 - 0:39:10] ▶
are they going to see
[0:39:10 - 0:39:11] ▶
something they may
[0:39:11 - 0:39:12] ▶
or may not even know
[0:39:12 - 0:39:13] ▶
how to interpret
[0:39:13 - 0:39:14] ▶
and some innocuous words.
[0:39:14 - 0:39:16] ▶
And this could be
[0:39:16 - 0:39:17] ▶
as innocuous
[0:39:17 - 0:39:18] ▶
as aerospace technology review
[0:39:18 - 0:39:21] ▶
or,
[0:39:21 - 0:39:22] ▶
well,
[0:39:23 - 0:39:24] ▶
let's look at the OSAP,
[0:39:24 - 0:39:25] ▶
Advanced Aerospace
[0:39:25 - 0:39:26] ▶
Weapon Systems
[0:39:26 - 0:39:27] ▶
Application Program.
[0:39:27 - 0:39:28] ▶
It could be something
[0:39:28 - 0:39:29] ▶
similar to that
[0:39:29 - 0:39:30] ▶
or of that nature.
[0:39:30 - 0:39:30] ▶
You'll see something
[0:39:30 - 0:39:31] ▶
of that nature.
[0:39:31 - 0:39:32] ▶
It doesn't say UFO,
[0:39:32 - 0:39:34] ▶
alien,
[0:39:34 - 0:39:35] ▶
off-world.
[0:39:35 - 0:39:36] ▶
It doesn't give you
[0:39:36 - 0:39:37] ▶
any clue or indication
[0:39:37 - 0:39:38] ▶
as to what it is.
[0:39:38 - 0:39:39] ▶
It's meant for that,
[0:39:39 - 0:39:40] ▶
for that reason,
[0:39:40 - 0:39:41] ▶
is to keep our enemies
[0:39:41 - 0:39:43] ▶
off the track
[0:39:43 - 0:39:43] ▶
to be able to figure out
[0:39:43 - 0:39:44] ▶
what we're spending
[0:39:44 - 0:39:45] ▶
our money on and where.
[0:39:45 - 0:39:46] ▶
Wilson didn't know that
[0:39:46 - 0:39:47] ▶
because he didn't have
[0:39:47 - 0:39:48] ▶
any need to know.
[0:39:48 - 0:39:49] ▶
Just like a president
[0:39:49 - 0:39:50] ▶
in the United States
[0:39:50 - 0:39:50] ▶
really doesn't have
[0:39:50 - 0:39:51] ▶
any need to know
[0:39:51 - 0:39:52] ▶
about the crash retrieval program
[0:39:52 - 0:39:53] ▶
because mostly
[0:39:53 - 0:39:54] ▶
they have to know
[0:39:54 - 0:39:56] ▶
to ask about it.
[0:39:56 - 0:39:57] ▶
And when they ask,
[0:39:57 - 0:39:58] ▶
that's an order from him
[0:39:58 - 0:39:59] ▶
that somebody lower down
[0:39:59 - 0:40:01] ▶
needs to give him a briefing.
[0:40:01 - 0:40:01] ▶
But if he already doesn't know,
[0:40:02 - 0:40:03] ▶
he doesn't know to ask.
[0:40:03 - 0:40:04] ▶
What happened
[0:40:04 - 0:40:05] ▶
when Jimmy Carter
[0:40:05 - 0:40:05] ▶
got briefed?
[0:40:05 - 0:40:06] ▶
I don't know
[0:40:07 - 0:40:08] ▶
what the aftermath is,
[0:40:08 - 0:40:09] ▶
but I know that
[0:40:09 - 0:40:10] ▶
Alonzo McDonald
[0:40:10 - 0:40:11] ▶
confirmed to several of us
[0:40:11 - 0:40:13] ▶
that,
[0:40:13 - 0:40:13] ▶
in our group,
[0:40:14 - 0:40:14] ▶
during that era,
[0:40:15 - 0:40:15] ▶
the ASAP era,
[0:40:15 - 0:40:16] ▶
that he talked to the staff
[0:40:16 - 0:40:20] ▶
that attended that briefing,
[0:40:20 - 0:40:21] ▶
he talked to Carter,
[0:40:21 - 0:40:22] ▶
and it happened.
[0:40:22 - 0:40:23] ▶
He even sent us the June,
[0:40:23 - 0:40:25] ▶
I don't remember
[0:40:25 - 0:40:26] ▶
the date in June,
[0:40:26 - 0:40:27] ▶
but I've got the document,
[0:40:27 - 0:40:28] ▶
but it's June 1977.
[0:40:28 - 0:40:30] ▶
It was an economic meeting
[0:40:31 - 0:40:33] ▶
in the National Security Council
[0:40:33 - 0:40:37] ▶
meeting room,
[0:40:37 - 0:40:38] ▶
but then when it came time
[0:40:38 - 0:40:40] ▶
for this classified UAP
[0:40:40 - 0:40:41] ▶
or UFO program briefing,
[0:40:41 - 0:40:43] ▶
they moved it
[0:40:43 - 0:40:44] ▶
to the Oval Office.
[0:40:44 - 0:40:45] ▶
Do you know what the nature
[0:40:45 - 0:40:46] ▶
of the meeting was?
[0:40:46 - 0:40:47] ▶
Yeah,
[0:40:47 - 0:40:47] ▶
what we popularly known
[0:40:47 - 0:40:49] ▶
as Project Aquarius.
[0:40:49 - 0:40:50] ▶
And so,
[0:40:51 - 0:40:52] ▶
I know that Alonzo
[0:40:52 - 0:40:55] ▶
did not dispute
[0:40:55 - 0:40:56] ▶
that that was the code name.
[0:40:56 - 0:40:57] ▶
It might not have been,
[0:40:57 - 0:40:58] ▶
but it might have been,
[0:40:58 - 0:40:59] ▶
but he said,
[0:40:59 - 0:41:00] ▶
this was it.
[0:41:00 - 0:41:01] ▶
This is the real deal.
[0:41:01 - 0:41:02] ▶
This really happened.
[0:41:02 - 0:41:02] ▶
And by the way,
[0:41:03 - 0:41:03] ▶
I got from the Carter Library
[0:41:03 - 0:41:06] ▶
the attendee list
[0:41:06 - 0:41:07] ▶
for that date,
[0:41:07 - 0:41:08] ▶
and it shows the name
[0:41:08 - 0:41:10] ▶
of the regular meeting
[0:41:10 - 0:41:11] ▶
for the Economic Something Council
[0:41:11 - 0:41:13] ▶
because that's what
[0:41:13 - 0:41:13] ▶
Alonzo McDonald's job is
[0:41:13 - 0:41:15] ▶
at the White House.
[0:41:15 - 0:41:16] ▶
So,
[0:41:17 - 0:41:17] ▶
Is that public information?
[0:41:17 - 0:41:18] ▶
So, the names of the people
[0:41:19 - 0:41:19] ▶
that attended were there.
[0:41:19 - 0:41:21] ▶
The only thing is
[0:41:21 - 0:41:22] ▶
two names in organizations
[0:41:22 - 0:41:23] ▶
were redacted.
[0:41:23 - 0:41:24] ▶
Out of all the lists,
[0:41:24 - 0:41:25] ▶
on two pages,
[0:41:25 - 0:41:26] ▶
only two got redacted.
[0:41:26 - 0:41:27] ▶
Can you send me
[0:41:27 - 0:41:27] ▶
that?
[0:41:27 - 0:41:28] ▶
Say again?
[0:41:28 - 0:41:28] ▶
Can you send me that
[0:41:29 - 0:41:29] ▶
with the redactions,
[0:41:29 - 0:41:30] ▶
obviously?
[0:41:30 - 0:41:31] ▶
Oh, I can send that.
[0:41:31 - 0:41:31] ▶
That would be amazing.
[0:41:31 - 0:41:32] ▶
So, basically,
[0:41:33 - 0:41:34] ▶
Alonzo confirmed
[0:41:34 - 0:41:36] ▶
that it happened.
[0:41:36 - 0:41:36] ▶
He was then
[0:41:36 - 0:41:37] ▶
the
[0:41:37 - 0:41:38] ▶
principal staff director
[0:41:38 - 0:41:41] ▶
of the White House staff.
[0:41:41 - 0:41:42] ▶
I think that was
[0:41:42 - 0:41:43] ▶
the title back then.
[0:41:43 - 0:41:44] ▶
Before that,
[0:41:44 - 0:41:45] ▶
he was Jimmy Carter's
[0:41:45 - 0:41:47] ▶
special representative
[0:41:47 - 0:41:48] ▶
for trade,
[0:41:48 - 0:41:49] ▶
I think,
[0:41:49 - 0:41:50] ▶
to the United Nations.
[0:41:50 - 0:41:50] ▶
So, he had something
[0:41:50 - 0:41:51] ▶
like an ambassador
[0:41:51 - 0:41:53] ▶
or an ambassador
[0:41:53 - 0:41:54] ▶
level title.
[0:41:54 - 0:41:55] ▶
Do you know anything
[0:41:56 - 0:41:56] ▶
that transpired
[0:41:56 - 0:41:58] ▶
in the meeting itself
[0:41:58 - 0:41:58] ▶
as far as...
[0:41:58 - 0:41:59] ▶
Well, he talked to Carter
[0:41:59 - 0:42:00] ▶
and the guys
[0:42:00 - 0:42:02] ▶
that are named
[0:42:02 - 0:42:03] ▶
on that list
[0:42:03 - 0:42:03] ▶
and he asked him
[0:42:03 - 0:42:04] ▶
what transpired.
[0:42:04 - 0:42:05] ▶
Carter told him
[0:42:05 - 0:42:06] ▶
and the guys
[0:42:06 - 0:42:06] ▶
who attended told him.
[0:42:06 - 0:42:08] ▶
And they said,
[0:42:08 - 0:42:09] ▶
we learned
[0:42:09 - 0:42:10] ▶
that the United States
[0:42:10 - 0:42:10] ▶
government
[0:42:10 - 0:42:11] ▶
has been in contact
[0:42:11 - 0:42:12] ▶
with aliens,
[0:42:12 - 0:42:13] ▶
UFO beings.
[0:42:14 - 0:42:15] ▶
Danny Sheehan
[0:42:16 - 0:42:17] ▶
says Carter's
[0:42:17 - 0:42:17] ▶
head was...
[0:42:17 - 0:42:18] ▶
Oh, see,
[0:42:18 - 0:42:19] ▶
he continues, sorry.
[0:42:19 - 0:42:20] ▶
Well, what he does
[0:42:20 - 0:42:20] ▶
is when he's
[0:42:20 - 0:42:21] ▶
in a moment of stress
[0:42:21 - 0:42:22] ▶
or something
[0:42:22 - 0:42:22] ▶
that's really critical,
[0:42:22 - 0:42:23] ▶
Alonzo told us
[0:42:25 - 0:42:26] ▶
that Jimmy,
[0:42:26 - 0:42:27] ▶
or President Carter,
[0:42:27 - 0:42:28] ▶
has a habit
[0:42:28 - 0:42:29] ▶
of putting his head
[0:42:29 - 0:42:30] ▶
down on his table
[0:42:30 - 0:42:31] ▶
like this and praying.
[0:42:31 - 0:42:32] ▶
This is how he prays
[0:42:33 - 0:42:34] ▶
on his desk
[0:42:34 - 0:42:36] ▶
or at a table.
[0:42:36 - 0:42:37] ▶
Not a briefing table.
[0:42:37 - 0:42:38] ▶
So that's what he was doing.
[0:42:38 - 0:42:39] ▶
He was just praying.
[0:42:39 - 0:42:40] ▶
And he was praying
[0:42:40 - 0:42:41] ▶
about the consequence
[0:42:41 - 0:42:43] ▶
of this information
[0:42:43 - 0:42:44] ▶
that he just now learned,
[0:42:44 - 0:42:45] ▶
what its consequence
[0:42:46 - 0:42:49] ▶
to American society is
[0:42:49 - 0:42:51] ▶
and maybe to
[0:42:51 - 0:42:51] ▶
the United States government
[0:42:51 - 0:42:52] ▶
and our defense
[0:42:52 - 0:42:53] ▶
of our country
[0:42:53 - 0:42:54] ▶
against an unknown
[0:42:54 - 0:42:55] ▶
potential hostile,
[0:42:55 - 0:42:57] ▶
we don't know,
[0:42:57 - 0:42:58] ▶
force that we don't have
[0:42:58 - 0:43:00] ▶
a technology to overwhelm.
[0:43:00 - 0:43:01] ▶
Did he learn about...
[0:43:01 - 0:43:02] ▶
Have we had treaties
[0:43:02 - 0:43:03] ▶
or agreements
[0:43:03 - 0:43:04] ▶
with any of these beings?
[0:43:04 - 0:43:06] ▶
That I never heard about.
[0:43:06 - 0:43:07] ▶
No, that never came out.
[0:43:07 - 0:43:08] ▶
Okay.
[0:43:08 - 0:43:08] ▶
I don't recall.
[0:43:09 - 0:43:10] ▶
I've seen the Aquarius document.
[0:43:10 - 0:43:11] ▶
Alonzo said it was real.
[0:43:11 - 0:43:12] ▶
People have been saying
[0:43:12 - 0:43:13] ▶
for years
[0:43:13 - 0:43:14] ▶
that that was fabricated
[0:43:14 - 0:43:15] ▶
by Bill Moore
[0:43:15 - 0:43:16] ▶
and Rick Doty,
[0:43:16 - 0:43:18] ▶
and it turns out,
[0:43:18 - 0:43:19] ▶
no, Alonzo said.
[0:43:19 - 0:43:20] ▶
Those guys had nothing
[0:43:21 - 0:43:22] ▶
to do with anything.
[0:43:22 - 0:43:23] ▶
That document,
[0:43:23 - 0:43:24] ▶
and by the way,
[0:43:25 - 0:43:25] ▶
I don't think you can find
[0:43:25 - 0:43:26] ▶
that document on the internet
[0:43:26 - 0:43:27] ▶
unless you use
[0:43:27 - 0:43:27] ▶
the Wayback Machine
[0:43:27 - 0:43:28] ▶
nowadays.
[0:43:28 - 0:43:29] ▶
It used to be available
[0:43:30 - 0:43:31] ▶
as late as 2010 or 2011,
[0:43:31 - 0:43:35] ▶
and then it's just gone.
[0:43:35 - 0:43:36] ▶
So Alonzo read every word
[0:43:37 - 0:43:39] ▶
of the Aquarius briefing,
[0:43:39 - 0:43:41] ▶
and he said,
[0:43:41 - 0:43:41] ▶
oh yeah,
[0:43:41 - 0:43:41] ▶
that's what these guys
[0:43:41 - 0:43:42] ▶
told me that they did.
[0:43:42 - 0:43:44] ▶
The guys in the briefing
[0:43:44 - 0:43:46] ▶
got together afterwards,
[0:43:46 - 0:43:48] ▶
went to a motel,
[0:43:48 - 0:43:49] ▶
and they basically
[0:43:49 - 0:43:51] ▶
wrote down from memory
[0:43:51 - 0:43:53] ▶
what they recalled
[0:43:53 - 0:43:55] ▶
about the briefing
[0:43:55 - 0:43:56] ▶
because they each
[0:43:56 - 0:43:56] ▶
got briefing documents.
[0:43:56 - 0:43:57] ▶
When the briefing
[0:43:58 - 0:43:59] ▶
is orally given,
[0:43:59 - 0:43:59] ▶
they're reading through it.
[0:43:59 - 0:44:00] ▶
Then when the briefing's over,
[0:44:00 - 0:44:01] ▶
they got to give the document
[0:44:01 - 0:44:02] ▶
back to the CIA guy
[0:44:02 - 0:44:03] ▶
at the door
[0:44:03 - 0:44:04] ▶
that came to the documents
[0:44:04 - 0:44:05] ▶
because they're going
[0:44:05 - 0:44:05] ▶
to be destroyed.
[0:44:05 - 0:44:06] ▶
Where's what they wrote
[0:44:06 - 0:44:07] ▶
down from memory?
[0:44:07 - 0:44:08] ▶
Where are those documents?
[0:44:08 - 0:44:09] ▶
Well, that's the thing.
[0:44:10 - 0:44:11] ▶
Those are gone.
[0:44:11 - 0:44:11] ▶
Okay.
[0:44:12 - 0:44:12] ▶
I'll get to that.
[0:44:12 - 0:44:13] ▶
So the White House
[0:44:14 - 0:44:15] ▶
gets a copy,
[0:44:15 - 0:44:16] ▶
a permanent copy
[0:44:16 - 0:44:17] ▶
for their records.
[0:44:17 - 0:44:17] ▶
So that's in a really
[0:44:18 - 0:44:19] ▶
heavily classified part
[0:44:19 - 0:44:20] ▶
of the Carter Library,
[0:44:20 - 0:44:21] ▶
I believe, maybe.
[0:44:21 - 0:44:22] ▶
And then the CIA
[0:44:22 - 0:44:24] ▶
keeps a copy
[0:44:24 - 0:44:24] ▶
because that's their program.
[0:44:24 - 0:44:26] ▶
Okay.
[0:44:26 - 0:44:26] ▶
So these guys
[0:44:27 - 0:44:28] ▶
had 8 by 14 inch
[0:44:28 - 0:44:31] ▶
legal pads,
[0:44:31 - 0:44:32] ▶
and they all meet up
[0:44:32 - 0:44:33] ▶
in a hotel,
[0:44:33 - 0:44:34] ▶
and they all start
[0:44:34 - 0:44:35] ▶
downpouring from memory
[0:44:35 - 0:44:37] ▶
what they think,
[0:44:37 - 0:44:39] ▶
what they recall
[0:44:39 - 0:44:40] ▶
of the briefing document.
[0:44:40 - 0:44:41] ▶
So they did a round robin.
[0:44:42 - 0:44:44] ▶
So everybody passes
[0:44:44 - 0:44:45] ▶
their document
[0:44:45 - 0:44:46] ▶
to the next guy,
[0:44:46 - 0:44:47] ▶
so forth and so on
[0:44:47 - 0:44:48] ▶
all the way around.
[0:44:48 - 0:44:49] ▶
And so they're going
[0:44:49 - 0:44:49] ▶
to cross-check
[0:44:49 - 0:44:51] ▶
what they remember
[0:44:51 - 0:44:52] ▶
against the other guy's notes.
[0:44:52 - 0:44:54] ▶
And they're going
[0:44:55 - 0:44:55] ▶
to keep doing this
[0:44:55 - 0:44:56] ▶
until they find,
[0:44:56 - 0:44:57] ▶
you know,
[0:44:57 - 0:44:57] ▶
they're going to disagree
[0:44:57 - 0:44:58] ▶
on what was said,
[0:44:58 - 0:44:59] ▶
on this little point,
[0:44:59 - 0:45:00] ▶
this language
[0:45:00 - 0:45:01] ▶
and this terminology
[0:45:01 - 0:45:02] ▶
and whatnot.
[0:45:02 - 0:45:02] ▶
They're going to keep
[0:45:03 - 0:45:03] ▶
doing that
[0:45:03 - 0:45:04] ▶
until they finally converge
[0:45:04 - 0:45:05] ▶
on a document
[0:45:05 - 0:45:06] ▶
that strongly resembles
[0:45:06 - 0:45:09] ▶
the briefing document
[0:45:09 - 0:45:11] ▶
that they all read.
[0:45:11 - 0:45:12] ▶
And they all agree on it
[0:45:12 - 0:45:13] ▶
and they said,
[0:45:13 - 0:45:13] ▶
yeah,
[0:45:13 - 0:45:13] ▶
this is more close
[0:45:13 - 0:45:15] ▶
to what we read.
[0:45:15 - 0:45:17] ▶
And we collectively,
[0:45:17 - 0:45:18] ▶
you know,
[0:45:18 - 0:45:19] ▶
came to this convergent
[0:45:19 - 0:45:21] ▶
final version.
[0:45:21 - 0:45:22] ▶
So somebody
[0:45:22 - 0:45:23] ▶
typed that up
[0:45:23 - 0:45:24] ▶
on an old-fashioned
[0:45:24 - 0:45:26] ▶
electrothermal printer.
[0:45:26 - 0:45:30] ▶
And that's what you see
[0:45:30 - 0:45:31] ▶
in the photographs
[0:45:31 - 0:45:32] ▶
that Bill Moore
[0:45:32 - 0:45:33] ▶
took of that document.
[0:45:33 - 0:45:34] ▶
And it was said
[0:45:34 - 0:45:35] ▶
that the Senior Falcon,
[0:45:35 - 0:45:37] ▶
Senior Falcon
[0:45:37 - 0:45:38] ▶
was somebody else.
[0:45:38 - 0:45:38] ▶
I know his name,
[0:45:38 - 0:45:39] ▶
I just can't think of it,
[0:45:39 - 0:45:40] ▶
but it's in one of my,
[0:45:40 - 0:45:42] ▶
uh,
[0:45:42 - 0:45:42] ▶
one of my investigation.
[0:45:43 - 0:45:44] ▶
Why do all these guys
[0:45:45 - 0:45:45] ▶
have bird names?
[0:45:45 - 0:45:46] ▶
I don't know.
[0:45:48 - 0:45:49] ▶
That's just the choice
[0:45:49 - 0:45:50] ▶
of an admiral
[0:45:50 - 0:45:51] ▶
at the DIA.
[0:45:51 - 0:45:52] ▶
Nothing to do
[0:45:53 - 0:45:54] ▶
with the aviary.
[0:45:54 - 0:45:54] ▶
Aviary is more
[0:45:55 - 0:45:55] ▶
in the 1990s
[0:45:55 - 0:45:57] ▶
conspiracy era
[0:45:57 - 0:45:58] ▶
or maybe the late 80s
[0:45:58 - 0:45:59] ▶
even.
[0:45:59 - 0:45:59] ▶
Okay.
[0:46:00 - 0:46:00] ▶
So this is,
[0:46:01 - 0:46:01] ▶
Senior Falcon
[0:46:02 - 0:46:03] ▶
was a DIA
[0:46:03 - 0:46:04] ▶
officer
[0:46:04 - 0:46:06] ▶
who was sent
[0:46:06 - 0:46:07] ▶
to communicate
[0:46:07 - 0:46:08] ▶
with Jamie Shandare
[0:46:08 - 0:46:09] ▶
and Bill Moore.
[0:46:09 - 0:46:10] ▶
He was the one
[0:46:10 - 0:46:11] ▶
that passed
[0:46:11 - 0:46:11] ▶
undeveloped 35mm film
[0:46:11 - 0:46:13] ▶
of the so-called
[0:46:13 - 0:46:14] ▶
MJ-12 documents.
[0:46:14 - 0:46:15] ▶
These are the
[0:46:16 - 0:46:16] ▶
first-generation documents
[0:46:16 - 0:46:17] ▶
that were created
[0:46:17 - 0:46:18] ▶
by James Jesus
[0:46:18 - 0:46:20] ▶
Angleton's
[0:46:20 - 0:46:20] ▶
Chop Shop,
[0:46:20 - 0:46:21] ▶
his mole-hunting
[0:46:22 - 0:46:24] ▶
document production factory.
[0:46:24 - 0:46:25] ▶
So that's
[0:46:26 - 0:46:28] ▶
the connection there,
[0:46:28 - 0:46:29] ▶
is that
[0:46:29 - 0:46:30] ▶
these documents
[0:46:30 - 0:46:31] ▶
came from
[0:46:31 - 0:46:32] ▶
the Defense Intelligence Agency.
[0:46:32 - 0:46:33] ▶
It was the
[0:46:33 - 0:46:34] ▶
Directorate of Human
[0:46:34 - 0:46:36] ▶
Intelligence Collection.
[0:46:36 - 0:46:38] ▶
And Admiral
[0:46:39 - 0:46:39] ▶
E.A. Burkhalder,
[0:46:39 - 0:46:41] ▶
Edward Burkhalder,
[0:46:41 - 0:46:42] ▶
was the director.
[0:46:42 - 0:46:44] ▶
And Air Force Colonel
[0:46:45 - 0:46:46] ▶
Roy Junkers
[0:46:46 - 0:46:47] ▶
was his chief of staff.
[0:46:47 - 0:46:48] ▶
So those documents
[0:46:49 - 0:46:50] ▶
came out of there.
[0:46:50 - 0:46:51] ▶
Well,
[0:46:51 - 0:46:51] ▶
this whole thing
[0:46:51 - 0:46:52] ▶
about the films,
[0:46:52 - 0:46:52] ▶
the undeveloped roles
[0:46:53 - 0:46:54] ▶
of 35mm film
[0:46:54 - 0:46:56] ▶
that would go to
[0:46:56 - 0:46:57] ▶
Bill Moore
[0:46:57 - 0:46:57] ▶
and Jamie Shandare,
[0:46:57 - 0:46:59] ▶
that was what
[0:46:59 - 0:47:00] ▶
that was about.
[0:47:00 - 0:47:00] ▶
Rick Doty
[0:47:01 - 0:47:02] ▶
was considered
[0:47:02 - 0:47:02] ▶
to be the Junior Falcon,
[0:47:02 - 0:47:04] ▶
but he was not
[0:47:04 - 0:47:05] ▶
a legitimate
[0:47:05 - 0:47:05] ▶
mediator of information
[0:47:05 - 0:47:08] ▶
from the DIA
[0:47:08 - 0:47:09] ▶
to Bill Moore.
[0:47:09 - 0:47:11] ▶
He was more
[0:47:11 - 0:47:12] ▶
coming out of
[0:47:12 - 0:47:12] ▶
AFOSI
[0:47:12 - 0:47:13] ▶
as a counterintelligence
[0:47:13 - 0:47:14] ▶
agent,
[0:47:14 - 0:47:15] ▶
trying to throw him
[0:47:15 - 0:47:16] ▶
off the track.
[0:47:16 - 0:47:17] ▶
Let's just keep it
[0:47:17 - 0:47:18] ▶
high level,
[0:47:18 - 0:47:18] ▶
I guess.
[0:47:18 - 0:47:19] ▶
So you have,
[0:47:19 - 0:47:19] ▶
you have
[0:47:19 - 0:47:20] ▶
Roswell in 47,
[0:47:20 - 0:47:22] ▶
you have Magenta
[0:47:23 - 0:47:23] ▶
before that
[0:47:23 - 0:47:24] ▶
in Italy,
[0:47:24 - 0:47:25] ▶
but then this craft
[0:47:25 - 0:47:26] ▶
crashes there
[0:47:26 - 0:47:27] ▶
and that gets
[0:47:27 - 0:47:28] ▶
transferred to
[0:47:28 - 0:47:29] ▶
U.S. possession.
[0:47:29 - 0:47:30] ▶
And then
[0:47:31 - 0:47:31] ▶
how many other
[0:47:31 - 0:47:32] ▶
crashes between
[0:47:32 - 0:47:34] ▶
the 30s and today?
[0:47:34 - 0:47:35] ▶
I can't give you
[0:47:36 - 0:47:37] ▶
the official number
[0:47:37 - 0:47:38] ▶
because I know
[0:47:38 - 0:47:39] ▶
that number
[0:47:39 - 0:47:39] ▶
on a classified basis
[0:47:39 - 0:47:41] ▶
I could say
[0:47:41 - 0:47:42] ▶
it's less than 40.
[0:47:42 - 0:47:43] ▶
Okay,
[0:47:43 - 0:47:43] ▶
less than 40.
[0:47:43 - 0:47:44] ▶
I think Hal Puthoff
[0:47:44 - 0:47:45] ▶
said on the Joe Rogan
[0:47:45 - 0:47:46] ▶
experience
[0:47:46 - 0:47:47] ▶
somewhere like
[0:47:47 - 0:47:49] ▶
we have
[0:47:49 - 0:47:49] ▶
between 10 and 15
[0:47:49 - 0:47:51] ▶
crafts
[0:47:51 - 0:47:52] ▶
in our possession.
[0:47:52 - 0:47:53] ▶
He said 15,
[0:47:53 - 0:47:54] ▶
I think he said
[0:47:54 - 0:47:54] ▶
more than 10,
[0:47:54 - 0:47:55] ▶
but that's still
[0:47:55 - 0:47:56] ▶
more than 10.
[0:47:56 - 0:47:56] ▶
Okay,
[0:47:57 - 0:47:57] ▶
got it.
[0:47:57 - 0:47:57] ▶
He said more than 10,
[0:47:57 - 0:47:58] ▶
I'll just say
[0:47:58 - 0:47:58] ▶
less than 40.
[0:47:58 - 0:47:59] ▶
Okay,
[0:47:59 - 0:48:00] ▶
more than 10.
[0:48:00 - 0:48:00] ▶
Would you describe
[0:48:00 - 0:48:01] ▶
the majority
[0:48:01 - 0:48:02] ▶
as wreckage
[0:48:02 - 0:48:03] ▶
or intact?
[0:48:03 - 0:48:04] ▶
A mix.
[0:48:04 - 0:48:05] ▶
An even mix.
[0:48:05 - 0:48:07] ▶
Okay.
[0:48:07 - 0:48:07] ▶
Okay.
[0:48:07 - 0:48:08] ▶
And not all of them
[0:48:08 - 0:48:09] ▶
involve recovery
[0:48:09 - 0:48:10] ▶
of NHI bodies.
[0:48:10 - 0:48:13] ▶
Dr. Davis,
[0:48:13 - 0:48:14] ▶
what gives you
[0:48:14 - 0:48:16] ▶
confidence that
[0:48:16 - 0:48:17] ▶
we haven't made
[0:48:17 - 0:48:17] ▶
progress with
[0:48:17 - 0:48:18] ▶
any of this material?
[0:48:18 - 0:48:19] ▶
I can't speak
[0:48:20 - 0:48:21] ▶
of my confidence
[0:48:21 - 0:48:23] ▶
level after
[0:48:23 - 0:48:24] ▶
my senior
[0:48:24 - 0:48:28] ▶
VP source
[0:48:28 - 0:48:29] ▶
died.
[0:48:29 - 0:48:30] ▶
Because before
[0:48:31 - 0:48:33] ▶
then,
[0:48:33 - 0:48:33] ▶
I'm highly confident
[0:48:33 - 0:48:34] ▶
because he was still
[0:48:34 - 0:48:35] ▶
connected in.
[0:48:35 - 0:48:36] ▶
He was still
[0:48:36 - 0:48:38] ▶
on active duty
[0:48:38 - 0:48:39] ▶
work up until
[0:48:39 - 0:48:40] ▶
he got retired
[0:48:40 - 0:48:41] ▶
in the early 2010s.
[0:48:41 - 0:48:42] ▶
Then he's retired
[0:48:42 - 0:48:43] ▶
after that,
[0:48:43 - 0:48:44] ▶
so he's sharing
[0:48:44 - 0:48:44] ▶
with me the information
[0:48:44 - 0:48:46] ▶
that he had
[0:48:46 - 0:48:46] ▶
all the way up
[0:48:46 - 0:48:47] ▶
until he retired.
[0:48:47 - 0:48:48] ▶
And so,
[0:48:48 - 0:48:49] ▶
I'm highly confident
[0:48:49 - 0:48:50] ▶
at 100% level
[0:48:50 - 0:48:51] ▶
that what he told
[0:48:51 - 0:48:53] ▶
me is right.
[0:48:53 - 0:48:53] ▶
And as a matter of fact,
[0:48:53 - 0:48:54] ▶
he arranged for me
[0:48:54 - 0:48:56] ▶
to meet one of his
[0:48:56 - 0:48:57] ▶
co-workers on the
[0:48:57 - 0:48:58] ▶
crash retrieval program
[0:48:58 - 0:48:59] ▶
back in the 70s
[0:48:59 - 0:49:00] ▶
and 80s.
[0:49:00 - 0:49:00] ▶
Did you meet them?
[0:49:00 - 0:49:01] ▶
Oh, yeah.
[0:49:01 - 0:49:02] ▶
It was a woman.
[0:49:02 - 0:49:02] ▶
I met her.
[0:49:02 - 0:49:03] ▶
He, my source,
[0:49:03 - 0:49:05] ▶
his wife,
[0:49:05 - 0:49:06] ▶
took me to her home,
[0:49:06 - 0:49:08] ▶
picked her up.
[0:49:08 - 0:49:08] ▶
We went into San Jose
[0:49:08 - 0:49:09] ▶
to have dinner
[0:49:09 - 0:49:10] ▶
at a German restaurant.
[0:49:10 - 0:49:11] ▶
How many of those
[0:49:11 - 0:49:12] ▶
people,
[0:49:12 - 0:49:12] ▶
crash retrieval program
[0:49:13 - 0:49:14] ▶
people,
[0:49:14 - 0:49:14] ▶
have you met total?
[0:49:14 - 0:49:15] ▶
Two.
[0:49:15 - 0:49:16] ▶
Okay,
[0:49:17 - 0:49:17] ▶
so I think it's
[0:49:17 - 0:49:18] ▶
five total.
[0:49:18 - 0:49:19] ▶
Okay.
[0:49:19 - 0:49:20] ▶
Five total at that one,
[0:49:20 - 0:49:21] ▶
at that particular company.
[0:49:21 - 0:49:22] ▶
How many have you met
[0:49:23 - 0:49:23] ▶
total in your life?
[0:49:23 - 0:49:25] ▶
It was just those two
[0:49:25 - 0:49:26] ▶
from that company
[0:49:26 - 0:49:27] ▶
and one from TRW.
[0:49:27 - 0:49:28] ▶
Okay.
[0:49:28 - 0:49:29] ▶
Wow.
[0:49:29 - 0:49:29] ▶
Did you meet many
[0:49:30 - 0:49:31] ▶
of the 40
[0:49:31 - 0:49:32] ▶
of Dave Grosh's
[0:49:32 - 0:49:33] ▶
firsthand witnesses?
[0:49:33 - 0:49:34] ▶
Say again?
[0:49:35 - 0:49:35] ▶
Did you meet many
[0:49:35 - 0:49:36] ▶
of the 40 of Dave Grosh's?
[0:49:36 - 0:49:37] ▶
I didn't even know
[0:49:37 - 0:49:38] ▶
who they are, really.
[0:49:38 - 0:49:38] ▶
He never shared that
[0:49:39 - 0:49:39] ▶
with me.
[0:49:39 - 0:49:40] ▶
I see.
[0:49:40 - 0:49:40] ▶
I have a rough guess,
[0:49:40 - 0:49:41] ▶
but believe me,
[0:49:41 - 0:49:42] ▶
don't confuse that 40
[0:49:42 - 0:49:44] ▶
with the 40 core people
[0:49:44 - 0:49:47] ▶
on the task force,
[0:49:47 - 0:49:48] ▶
on UAP task force.
[0:49:48 - 0:49:49] ▶
They're not.
[0:49:49 - 0:49:49] ▶
Totally different.
[0:49:49 - 0:49:50] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[0:49:50 - 0:49:50] ▶
They're totally different.
[0:49:50 - 0:49:51] ▶
There's no overlap.
[0:49:51 - 0:49:52] ▶
No, that makes,
[0:49:52 - 0:49:53] ▶
I would hope
[0:49:54 - 0:49:54] ▶
that there's no overlap.
[0:49:54 - 0:49:55] ▶
Yeah, I don't think
[0:49:55 - 0:49:56] ▶
Dave was allowed
[0:49:56 - 0:49:56] ▶
to tell me the names
[0:49:56 - 0:49:57] ▶
of those people
[0:49:57 - 0:49:58] ▶
or their organizations
[0:49:58 - 0:49:59] ▶
and where they're located
[0:49:59 - 0:50:00] ▶
because that was
[0:50:00 - 0:50:01] ▶
WUSAP level.
[0:50:01 - 0:50:02] ▶
Yeah, final question
[0:50:02 - 0:50:03] ▶
before I want to get
[0:50:03 - 0:50:04] ▶
into the second section
[0:50:04 - 0:50:06] ▶
of this discussion
[0:50:06 - 0:50:06] ▶
where I want you
[0:50:06 - 0:50:07] ▶
to drive mostly.
[0:50:07 - 0:50:08] ▶
But how did
[0:50:08 - 0:50:11] ▶
Admiral Thomas Wilson
[0:50:11 - 0:50:12] ▶
react
[0:50:12 - 0:50:13] ▶
when you met him
[0:50:13 - 0:50:14] ▶
in 1997?
[0:50:14 - 0:50:15] ▶
And why,
[0:50:16 - 0:50:16] ▶
I guess,
[0:50:16 - 0:50:17] ▶
why did people
[0:50:17 - 0:50:18] ▶
direct him to you
[0:50:18 - 0:50:19] ▶
and then
[0:50:19 - 0:50:20] ▶
what transpired
[0:50:20 - 0:50:21] ▶
in the meeting?
[0:50:21 - 0:50:22] ▶
Well, I can't get
[0:50:22 - 0:50:23] ▶
into that.
[0:50:23 - 0:50:23] ▶
Okay.
[0:50:23 - 0:50:23] ▶
I can't confirm
[0:50:24 - 0:50:24] ▶
or deny that
[0:50:24 - 0:50:25] ▶
we met
[0:50:25 - 0:50:25] ▶
for the security reasons.
[0:50:25 - 0:50:26] ▶
Okay.
[0:50:27 - 0:50:27] ▶
There are legal issues
[0:50:27 - 0:50:28] ▶
still involved
[0:50:28 - 0:50:28] ▶
that are active.
[0:50:28 - 0:50:29] ▶
Okay.
[0:50:30 - 0:50:30] ▶
So, because I can't
[0:50:30 - 0:50:32] ▶
reveal that in public.
[0:50:32 - 0:50:33] ▶
That wasn't meant
[0:50:33 - 0:50:34] ▶
for public consumption
[0:50:34 - 0:50:36] ▶
and that was released
[0:50:36 - 0:50:38] ▶
from Mitchell's estate
[0:50:38 - 0:50:39] ▶
and that was
[0:50:39 - 0:50:41] ▶
supposed to be destroyed
[0:50:41 - 0:50:42] ▶
one year after
[0:50:42 - 0:50:43] ▶
Mitchell got a copy
[0:50:43 - 0:50:44] ▶
of it as a courtesy
[0:50:44 - 0:50:45] ▶
from who generated it.
[0:50:45 - 0:50:47] ▶
And unfortunate
[0:50:48 - 0:50:49] ▶
that his kids
[0:50:49 - 0:50:50] ▶
were sloppy
[0:50:50 - 0:50:51] ▶
and I guess
[0:50:51 - 0:50:54] ▶
Ed was sloppy
[0:50:54 - 0:50:54] ▶
in that he didn't
[0:50:54 - 0:50:55] ▶
give any instructions
[0:50:55 - 0:50:56] ▶
on what to do
[0:50:56 - 0:50:56] ▶
with that document
[0:50:56 - 0:50:57] ▶
if he should die
[0:50:57 - 0:50:58] ▶
but he was supposed
[0:50:58 - 0:50:59] ▶
to destroy that
[0:50:59 - 0:51:00] ▶
as far as I understand.
[0:51:00 - 0:51:01] ▶
I would be remiss
[0:51:01 - 0:51:02] ▶
if I didn't.
[0:51:02 - 0:51:03] ▶
This can be cut
[0:51:03 - 0:51:04] ▶
if it's not okay
[0:51:04 - 0:51:05] ▶
to air
[0:51:05 - 0:51:06] ▶
but during our discussion
[0:51:06 - 0:51:08] ▶
in San Francisco
[0:51:08 - 0:51:09] ▶
you did confirm
[0:51:09 - 0:51:11] ▶
that you wrote
[0:51:11 - 0:51:11] ▶
the Wilson Davis notes
[0:51:11 - 0:51:12] ▶
by way of a conversation
[0:51:12 - 0:51:14] ▶
about seeking legal counsel.
[0:51:14 - 0:51:16] ▶
Yeah, they're real.
[0:51:16 - 0:51:17] ▶
They're legit.
[0:51:17 - 0:51:18] ▶
They're 100% accurate.
[0:51:18 - 0:51:19] ▶
Okay.
[0:51:19 - 0:51:19] ▶
Thank you.
[0:51:20 - 0:51:20] ▶
But that's the
[0:51:20 - 0:51:21] ▶
typewritten version.
[0:51:21 - 0:51:21] ▶
There's a handwritten version
[0:51:23 - 0:51:24] ▶
but that's all
[0:51:24 - 0:51:25] ▶
I can say about it.
[0:51:25 - 0:51:26] ▶
Have you ever seen a UFO?
[0:51:28 - 0:51:29] ▶
Oh yeah.
[0:51:30 - 0:51:31] ▶
My wife and I did
[0:51:31 - 0:51:32] ▶
in Tucson, Arizona.
[0:51:32 - 0:51:33] ▶
Broad daylight,
[0:51:33 - 0:51:34] ▶
a boomerang-shaped crap,
[0:51:34 - 0:51:35] ▶
below traffic pattern
[0:51:35 - 0:51:36] ▶
altitude,
[0:51:36 - 0:51:36] ▶
looked
[0:51:37 - 0:51:38] ▶
kind of like
[0:51:38 - 0:51:40] ▶
halfway boomerang,
[0:51:40 - 0:51:42] ▶
halfway boot heel
[0:51:42 - 0:51:43] ▶
type shape
[0:51:43 - 0:51:44] ▶
but it was close.
[0:51:44 - 0:51:45] ▶
Have you ever seen
[0:51:45 - 0:51:46] ▶
a craft in a hangar?
[0:51:46 - 0:51:47] ▶
No.
[0:51:47 - 0:51:48] ▶
I wish.
[0:51:48 - 0:51:49] ▶
I wanted to.
[0:51:49 - 0:51:50] ▶
Have you ever seen
[0:51:50 - 0:51:51] ▶
any one-of-one material?
[0:51:51 - 0:51:52] ▶
So idiosyncratic,
[0:51:53 - 0:51:54] ▶
never seen before material?
[0:51:54 - 0:51:55] ▶
No.
[0:51:55 - 0:51:55] ▶
Okay.
[0:51:56 - 0:51:56] ▶
Yeah, and the arts parts
[0:51:56 - 0:51:57] ▶
don't qualify.
[0:51:57 - 0:51:58] ▶
Okay.
[0:51:58 - 0:51:58] ▶
We don't know
[0:51:59 - 0:51:59] ▶
what the providence
[0:51:59 - 0:52:00] ▶
of that is.
[0:52:00 - 0:52:00] ▶
And Hal and I
[0:52:01 - 0:52:01] ▶
were involved
[0:52:01 - 0:52:02] ▶
in the TTS meeting
[0:52:02 - 0:52:04] ▶
at the Pentagon
[0:52:04 - 0:52:05] ▶
Conference Room
[0:52:05 - 0:52:06] ▶
in August of 2024
[0:52:06 - 0:52:09] ▶
where we read
[0:52:09 - 0:52:12] ▶
the full 90-page
[0:52:12 - 0:52:13] ▶
ORNL.
[0:52:13 - 0:52:15] ▶
That's the office
[0:52:15 - 0:52:16] ▶
on Oak Ridge
[0:52:16 - 0:52:17] ▶
National Laboratory.
[0:52:17 - 0:52:18] ▶
Their 90-page
[0:52:18 - 0:52:20] ▶
materials analysis report
[0:52:20 - 0:52:21] ▶
on the arts parts.
[0:52:21 - 0:52:22] ▶
And there was nothing there.
[0:52:22 - 0:52:24] ▶
There was no there.
[0:52:24 - 0:52:25] ▶
There's a little bit
[0:52:25 - 0:52:26] ▶
of ambiguity
[0:52:26 - 0:52:27] ▶
because here's
[0:52:27 - 0:52:28] ▶
the ambiguity.
[0:52:28 - 0:52:28] ▶
The way that material
[0:52:28 - 0:52:31] ▶
was assembled
[0:52:31 - 0:52:31] ▶
is not consistent
[0:52:31 - 0:52:32] ▶
with what we were doing
[0:52:32 - 0:52:34] ▶
in the 1940s era
[0:52:34 - 0:52:36] ▶
when magnesium
[0:52:36 - 0:52:37] ▶
became a major
[0:52:37 - 0:52:39] ▶
alloy of interest
[0:52:39 - 0:52:42] ▶
for the aerospace community.
[0:52:42 - 0:52:43] ▶
And so
[0:52:44 - 0:52:45] ▶
that's the ambiguity.
[0:52:45 - 0:52:46] ▶
But the isotope ratios
[0:52:47 - 0:52:48] ▶
of the materials
[0:52:48 - 0:52:48] ▶
it contains
[0:52:48 - 0:52:49] ▶
are Earth.
[0:52:49 - 0:52:50] ▶
They're manufactured.
[0:52:50 - 0:52:51] ▶
Part of what I love
[0:52:51 - 0:52:52] ▶
about you
[0:52:52 - 0:52:52] ▶
is you are
[0:52:52 - 0:52:52] ▶
a walking compendium
[0:52:52 - 0:52:54] ▶
of all these
[0:52:54 - 0:52:55] ▶
exotic
[0:52:55 - 0:52:56] ▶
experiments,
[0:52:56 - 0:52:58] ▶
physics experiments.
[0:52:58 - 0:52:58] ▶
And whenever
[0:52:59 - 0:52:59] ▶
anybody gets
[0:52:59 - 0:53:01] ▶
some sort of
[0:53:01 - 0:53:01] ▶
anomalous result
[0:53:01 - 0:53:02] ▶
you are a great
[0:53:02 - 0:53:05] ▶
evaluator of that.
[0:53:05 - 0:53:06] ▶
And you've written
[0:53:06 - 0:53:07] ▶
a book
[0:53:07 - 0:53:07] ▶
that I will
[0:53:07 - 0:53:08] ▶
plug here
[0:53:08 - 0:53:09] ▶
called
[0:53:09 - 0:53:09] ▶
Frontiers of Propulsion Science
[0:53:09 - 0:53:12] ▶
where you've
[0:53:12 - 0:53:13] ▶
comprehensively reviewed
[0:53:13 - 0:53:14] ▶
a lot of these
[0:53:14 - 0:53:15] ▶
sort of more exotic
[0:53:15 - 0:53:15] ▶
propellant-less
[0:53:15 - 0:53:17] ▶
propulsion
[0:53:17 - 0:53:17] ▶
sort of
[0:53:17 - 0:53:18] ▶
modalities.
[0:53:18 - 0:53:19] ▶
Have you ever seen
[0:53:20 - 0:53:21] ▶
an exotic
[0:53:21 - 0:53:22] ▶
experimental result
[0:53:22 - 0:53:23] ▶
or an experimental result
[0:53:23 - 0:53:24] ▶
that's anomalous
[0:53:24 - 0:53:25] ▶
rather
[0:53:25 - 0:53:25] ▶
that
[0:53:25 - 0:53:26] ▶
you believe
[0:53:26 - 0:53:28] ▶
is real
[0:53:28 - 0:53:29] ▶
and replicable
[0:53:29 - 0:53:31] ▶
and not?
[0:53:31 - 0:53:32] ▶
No, I wish I did.
[0:53:32 - 0:53:34] ▶
I haven't.
[0:53:34 - 0:53:34] ▶
Nothing that's ever
[0:53:34 - 0:53:35] ▶
breaks the sort of
[0:53:35 - 0:53:36] ▶
standard model
[0:53:36 - 0:53:37] ▶
or anything?
[0:53:37 - 0:53:38] ▶
No, certainly not.
[0:53:38 - 0:53:39] ▶
Okay.
[0:53:39 - 0:53:39] ▶
I just think that
[0:53:40 - 0:53:40] ▶
the standard model
[0:53:40 - 0:53:41] ▶
has done an outstanding job
[0:53:41 - 0:53:43] ▶
through the avenue
[0:53:43 - 0:53:43] ▶
of condensed matter theory
[0:53:43 - 0:53:44] ▶
to come up with
[0:53:44 - 0:53:45] ▶
some pretty exotic
[0:53:45 - 0:53:46] ▶
condensed matter states
[0:53:46 - 0:53:48] ▶
which have been
[0:53:48 - 0:53:49] ▶
theoretical curiosities
[0:53:49 - 0:53:52] ▶
decades ago
[0:53:52 - 0:53:52] ▶
and now we've advanced
[0:53:52 - 0:53:54] ▶
our laboratory technology
[0:53:54 - 0:53:55] ▶
and condensed matter physics
[0:53:55 - 0:53:56] ▶
so well
[0:53:56 - 0:53:57] ▶
that they're discovered.
[0:53:57 - 0:53:58] ▶
They're being discovered
[0:53:58 - 0:53:59] ▶
right now.
[0:53:59 - 0:54:00] ▶
So they're really wonderful
[0:54:00 - 0:54:02] ▶
exotic states.
[0:54:02 - 0:54:04] ▶
Insulator,
[0:54:04 - 0:54:05] ▶
topological insulators,
[0:54:05 - 0:54:06] ▶
metamaterials,
[0:54:06 - 0:54:06] ▶
all kinds of other stuff
[0:54:07 - 0:54:09] ▶
like Majorana particles
[0:54:09 - 0:54:10] ▶
that are supposed to be
[0:54:10 - 0:54:12] ▶
I think they're massless,
[0:54:12 - 0:54:13] ▶
aren't they, Eric?
[0:54:14 - 0:54:15] ▶
But if you have a...
[0:54:15 - 0:54:16] ▶
The Majorana particles.
[0:54:16 - 0:54:17] ▶
If you have a Majorana
[0:54:17 - 0:54:19] ▶
mass mechanism
[0:54:19 - 0:54:20] ▶
different from a Dirac
[0:54:20 - 0:54:21] ▶
mass mechanism,
[0:54:21 - 0:54:23] ▶
that's only possible
[0:54:23 - 0:54:24] ▶
if a particle
[0:54:24 - 0:54:25] ▶
is its own antiparticle.
[0:54:25 - 0:54:26] ▶
Yeah, that's right.
[0:54:26 - 0:54:27] ▶
Correct.
[0:54:27 - 0:54:27] ▶
That's right.
[0:54:27 - 0:54:28] ▶
But they...
[0:54:28 - 0:54:29] ▶
These are not free particles.
[0:54:29 - 0:54:30] ▶
These are quasi-particles
[0:54:30 - 0:54:32] ▶
because they are...
[0:54:32 - 0:54:33] ▶
They are...
[0:54:33 - 0:54:34] ▶
They're quasi-particles
[0:54:34 - 0:54:36] ▶
because they're created
[0:54:36 - 0:54:37] ▶
by the collective action
[0:54:37 - 0:54:38] ▶
of the electrons
[0:54:38 - 0:54:39] ▶
in the semiconductor
[0:54:39 - 0:54:40] ▶
or condensed matter system.
[0:54:40 - 0:54:41] ▶
I want to cede the floor
[0:54:41 - 0:54:43] ▶
to my former colleague,
[0:54:43 - 0:54:45] ▶
Eric Weinstein.
[0:54:45 - 0:54:46] ▶
I appreciate you indulging
[0:54:47 - 0:54:48] ▶
all my crazy UFO questions.
[0:54:48 - 0:54:50] ▶
Just wanted to kind of establish
[0:54:50 - 0:54:52] ▶
a ground truth
[0:54:52 - 0:54:52] ▶
around Eric Davis'
[0:54:52 - 0:54:54] ▶
past experience.
[0:54:54 - 0:54:55] ▶
One of my favorite comments
[0:54:56 - 0:54:58] ▶
on our last discussion
[0:54:58 - 0:54:59] ▶
with Hal Puthoff was,
[0:54:59 - 0:55:00] ▶
now I know what a dog
[0:55:01 - 0:55:02] ▶
feels like when it watches TV.
[0:55:02 - 0:55:04] ▶
And so,
[0:55:04 - 0:55:05] ▶
if, you know,
[0:55:05 - 0:55:06] ▶
this is not for the faint of mind,
[0:55:06 - 0:55:08] ▶
just so you're aware
[0:55:08 - 0:55:09] ▶
from, you know,
[0:55:09 - 0:55:09] ▶
for the audience,
[0:55:09 - 0:55:10] ▶
this will be a really fun discussion.
[0:55:10 - 0:55:12] ▶
But, you know,
[0:55:12 - 0:55:13] ▶
I want to get into
[0:55:13 - 0:55:13] ▶
what we touched on,
[0:55:13 - 0:55:14] ▶
which is,
[0:55:14 - 0:55:15] ▶
why are there no theoretical physicists
[0:55:15 - 0:55:17] ▶
on the program?
[0:55:17 - 0:55:18] ▶
And what do you think
[0:55:18 - 0:55:20] ▶
is going on?
[0:55:20 - 0:55:21] ▶
How do you think
[0:55:21 - 0:55:23] ▶
maybe what we've talked about
[0:55:23 - 0:55:25] ▶
with the observables of UFOs
[0:55:25 - 0:55:27] ▶
might dovetail
[0:55:27 - 0:55:29] ▶
with some of your theories?
[0:55:29 - 0:55:30] ▶
Okay.
[0:55:31 - 0:55:31] ▶
Well, I don't even know
[0:55:32 - 0:55:33] ▶
how to begin this.
[0:55:33 - 0:55:34] ▶
I mean, look,
[0:55:34 - 0:55:34] ▶
the first thing is,
[0:55:35 - 0:55:36] ▶
is that in general,
[0:55:36 - 0:55:38] ▶
I can produce
[0:55:38 - 0:55:39] ▶
too many explanations
[0:55:39 - 0:55:40] ▶
through a creative,
[0:55:40 - 0:55:42] ▶
sometimes undisciplined mind
[0:55:42 - 0:55:43] ▶
for a certain set of facts.
[0:55:43 - 0:55:45] ▶
And this is one of the only times
[0:55:46 - 0:55:48] ▶
and perhaps the only time
[0:55:48 - 0:55:49] ▶
I've ever seen a situation
[0:55:49 - 0:55:50] ▶
where I cannot come up
[0:55:50 - 0:55:51] ▶
with a single theory
[0:55:51 - 0:55:52] ▶
of what's going on
[0:55:52 - 0:55:53] ▶
that explains
[0:55:53 - 0:55:55] ▶
all of the bizarre behavior
[0:55:55 - 0:55:57] ▶
in UFO, UAP land.
[0:55:57 - 0:55:59] ▶
Too many people
[0:56:00 - 0:56:01] ▶
who seem relatively reasonable
[0:56:01 - 0:56:03] ▶
with nearly eidetic memories
[0:56:03 - 0:56:04] ▶
talking about particular names,
[0:56:04 - 0:56:06] ▶
dates.
[0:56:06 - 0:56:06] ▶
It is impossible to me
[0:56:07 - 0:56:09] ▶
that we have a theater company
[0:56:09 - 0:56:11] ▶
that has figured out
[0:56:11 - 0:56:12] ▶
how to create this space opera.
[0:56:12 - 0:56:14] ▶
And on the other hand,
[0:56:15 - 0:56:16] ▶
the lack of anything tangible.
[0:56:16 - 0:56:18] ▶
I don't believe in something
[0:56:20 - 0:56:22] ▶
this old, this long,
[0:56:22 - 0:56:24] ▶
this many events
[0:56:24 - 0:56:25] ▶
that we have absolutely nothing
[0:56:25 - 0:56:28] ▶
to go on.
[0:56:28 - 0:56:29] ▶
So let me just say
[0:56:29 - 0:56:30] ▶
from the beginning
[0:56:30 - 0:56:31] ▶
that this is the odd situation.
[0:56:31 - 0:56:33] ▶
One of the reasons
[0:56:33 - 0:56:34] ▶
nobody from my world
[0:56:34 - 0:56:35] ▶
wants to get involved with it
[0:56:35 - 0:56:37] ▶
is that it just makes you look foolish
[0:56:37 - 0:56:41] ▶
from the point of view
[0:56:41 - 0:56:42] ▶
of a scientist.
[0:56:42 - 0:56:43] ▶
Well, they can't get involved
[0:56:43 - 0:56:45] ▶
unless they're working
[0:56:45 - 0:56:46] ▶
on a contract
[0:56:46 - 0:56:47] ▶
specifically for that.
[0:56:47 - 0:56:48] ▶
Then they get a clearance
[0:56:48 - 0:56:49] ▶
that they work on it.
[0:56:49 - 0:56:50] ▶
Sky is a big place.
[0:56:50 - 0:56:51] ▶
Oh, I disagree.
[0:56:52 - 0:56:54] ▶
You said that you've...
[0:56:54 - 0:56:55] ▶
One of the top government scientists,
[0:56:55 - 0:56:57] ▶
I can't think of his name.
[0:56:57 - 0:56:58] ▶
You would know who it is.
[0:56:59 - 0:57:00] ▶
Gosh, he was a physicist.
[0:57:02 - 0:57:03] ▶
And I just helped put off knew him.
[0:57:04 - 0:57:05] ▶
And he had a lot of clearances
[0:57:06 - 0:57:08] ▶
into the Manhattan Project,
[0:57:08 - 0:57:09] ▶
the post-Manhattan Project,
[0:57:09 - 0:57:11] ▶
a lot of other high technology projects
[0:57:11 - 0:57:14] ▶
throughout areas of the DoD.
[0:57:14 - 0:57:16] ▶
And so he was an academician
[0:57:16 - 0:57:23] ▶
and he had clearances.
[0:57:23 - 0:57:24] ▶
A colleague of mine up at Baylor
[0:57:25 - 0:57:26] ▶
also has DoD classifications.
[0:57:26 - 0:57:29] ▶
And he's working on classified stuff
[0:57:30 - 0:57:31] ▶
that you're not familiar with,
[0:57:31 - 0:57:32] ▶
you've never heard of,
[0:57:32 - 0:57:33] ▶
you won't get access to it.
[0:57:33 - 0:57:34] ▶
If you have a contract
[0:57:34 - 0:57:35] ▶
that requires a clearance,
[0:57:35 - 0:57:38] ▶
you will get access to something
[0:57:38 - 0:57:40] ▶
you don't know about
[0:57:40 - 0:57:40] ▶
in the public domain.
[0:57:40 - 0:57:41] ▶
I understand that there's a lot of stuff
[0:57:41 - 0:57:43] ▶
that's classified.
[0:57:43 - 0:57:44] ▶
We have an entire system of national labs.
[0:57:44 - 0:57:46] ▶
There's no question about that.
[0:57:47 - 0:57:48] ▶
I'm talking about
[0:57:48 - 0:57:50] ▶
at the level of ground truth.
[0:57:50 - 0:57:53] ▶
Our two primary theories
[0:57:54 - 0:57:56] ▶
are the standard model
[0:57:56 - 0:57:57] ▶
and general relativity.
[0:57:57 - 0:57:58] ▶
Both of them are relevant here
[0:57:58 - 0:58:01] ▶
as limitations
[0:58:01 - 0:58:02] ▶
on what we can understand
[0:58:02 - 0:58:05] ▶
of the world we see.
[0:58:05 - 0:58:06] ▶
And if somebody has access
[0:58:06 - 0:58:08] ▶
to theories beyond those two
[0:58:08 - 0:58:10] ▶
and they predicate manufacturing on it
[0:58:10 - 0:58:13] ▶
and then we get the gifts
[0:58:13 - 0:58:14] ▶
of that manufacturing,
[0:58:14 - 0:58:15] ▶
just assuming that that story is correct,
[0:58:15 - 0:58:17] ▶
we should be seeing
[0:58:18 - 0:58:19] ▶
some very weird stuff
[0:58:19 - 0:58:21] ▶
that is not explicable
[0:58:21 - 0:58:23] ▶
as if Newton was looking
[0:58:23 - 0:58:24] ▶
at Lorentz contraction.
[0:58:24 - 0:58:27] ▶
He would say,
[0:58:27 - 0:58:28] ▶
what the heck is that?
[0:58:28 - 0:58:29] ▶
And so I'm just going to begin
[0:58:30 - 0:58:34] ▶
with things that make me
[0:58:34 - 0:58:35] ▶
hugely uncomfortable
[0:58:35 - 0:58:36] ▶
and again,
[0:58:36 - 0:58:37] ▶
it's not as a digger.
[0:58:37 - 0:58:39] ▶
It's like,
[0:58:39 - 0:58:39] ▶
I just can't figure this out.
[0:58:39 - 0:58:40] ▶
So we toss off
[0:58:41 - 0:58:42] ▶
these humanoid aliens,
[0:58:42 - 0:58:44] ▶
like aliens that are tetrapods,
[0:58:45 - 0:58:47] ▶
literally tetrapod body plans.
[0:58:47 - 0:58:50] ▶
We have arachnids,
[0:58:50 - 0:58:52] ▶
we have insects,
[0:58:52 - 0:58:52] ▶
we have cephalopods.
[0:58:53 - 0:58:54] ▶
We have all sorts
[0:58:55 - 0:58:56] ▶
of intelligent life
[0:58:56 - 0:58:57] ▶
that doesn't follow
[0:58:57 - 0:58:58] ▶
a tetrapod body plan.
[0:58:58 - 0:59:00] ▶
The odd of a humanoid
[0:59:01 - 0:59:03] ▶
evolving through convergence
[0:59:03 - 0:59:06] ▶
evolution somewhere else
[0:59:06 - 0:59:08] ▶
of a humanoid
[0:59:08 - 0:59:10] ▶
is vanishingly small.
[0:59:10 - 0:59:13] ▶
But it's not surreal.
[0:59:13 - 0:59:14] ▶
Yeah, but it's preposterous.
[0:59:16 - 0:59:18] ▶
But Occam's razor
[0:59:18 - 0:59:19] ▶
wouldn't be that these beings
[0:59:19 - 0:59:20] ▶
would be from elsewhere,
[0:59:20 - 0:59:21] ▶
they would be that
[0:59:22 - 0:59:22] ▶
they'd be derivative
[0:59:22 - 0:59:23] ▶
of humans.
[0:59:23 - 0:59:24] ▶
Or look,
[0:59:24 - 0:59:25] ▶
you can tell me
[0:59:25 - 0:59:26] ▶
some other story,
[0:59:26 - 0:59:27] ▶
like these things
[0:59:27 - 0:59:29] ▶
aren't even really
[0:59:29 - 0:59:29] ▶
the beings,
[0:59:29 - 0:59:30] ▶
that the real beings
[0:59:30 - 0:59:31] ▶
have constructed these things
[0:59:31 - 0:59:33] ▶
to interact with us,
[0:59:33 - 0:59:34] ▶
not to make us uncomfortable.
[0:59:34 - 0:59:36] ▶
Okay, I understand.
[0:59:36 - 0:59:37] ▶
Do you believe that?
[0:59:37 - 0:59:37] ▶
That's possible.
[0:59:38 - 0:59:39] ▶
Okay.
[0:59:40 - 0:59:40] ▶
All right.
[0:59:40 - 0:59:40] ▶
But any biologist
[0:59:40 - 0:59:42] ▶
hearing this story
[0:59:42 - 0:59:43] ▶
is just going to have
[0:59:43 - 0:59:45] ▶
the same reaction,
[0:59:45 - 0:59:46] ▶
like tetrapods?
[0:59:46 - 0:59:47] ▶
This sounds like
[0:59:48 - 0:59:49] ▶
it came out of
[0:59:49 - 0:59:49] ▶
a Buck Rogers thing
[0:59:49 - 0:59:52] ▶
where it was too hard
[0:59:52 - 0:59:55] ▶
to hire an actor
[0:59:55 - 0:59:57] ▶
to behave as if they had
[0:59:57 - 0:59:58] ▶
a completely different
[0:59:58 - 0:59:59] ▶
body plan.
[0:59:59 - 1:00:00] ▶
So all aliens
[1:00:00 - 1:00:01] ▶
from the golden age
[1:00:01 - 1:00:03] ▶
of cinema
[1:00:03 - 1:00:03] ▶
or silent movies,
[1:00:03 - 1:00:04] ▶
whatever,
[1:00:05 - 1:00:05] ▶
were going to be tetrapods
[1:00:05 - 1:00:06] ▶
if they were playing an alien.
[1:00:06 - 1:00:07] ▶
So that, first of all,
[1:00:07 - 1:00:09] ▶
really bugs me,
[1:00:09 - 1:00:10] ▶
is that I don't want
[1:00:10 - 1:00:11] ▶
to hear about
[1:00:11 - 1:00:12] ▶
that with no mention
[1:00:12 - 1:00:16] ▶
of it is stunning
[1:00:16 - 1:00:17] ▶
that there are two eyes,
[1:00:17 - 1:00:19] ▶
a mouth,
[1:00:19 - 1:00:20] ▶
a head,
[1:00:21 - 1:00:21] ▶
and it walks
[1:00:21 - 1:00:22] ▶
the same way we do.
[1:00:22 - 1:00:23] ▶
I mean,
[1:00:24 - 1:00:24] ▶
even if you look at like,
[1:00:24 - 1:00:25] ▶
I don't know,
[1:00:25 - 1:00:26] ▶
a camel's legs,
[1:00:26 - 1:00:28] ▶
you know,
[1:00:28 - 1:00:28] ▶
where we have a knee,
[1:00:28 - 1:00:30] ▶
it has an ankle
[1:00:30 - 1:00:31] ▶
or, you know,
[1:00:31 - 1:00:31] ▶
something like that.
[1:00:31 - 1:00:32] ▶
So that's the first part
[1:00:33 - 1:00:36] ▶
and that's just
[1:00:36 - 1:00:36] ▶
the biological.
[1:00:36 - 1:00:37] ▶
The next part is,
[1:00:38 - 1:00:39] ▶
I was very interested
[1:00:40 - 1:00:43] ▶
looking through
[1:00:43 - 1:00:43] ▶
some of your physics papers.
[1:00:43 - 1:00:45] ▶
You seem to live
[1:00:45 - 1:00:47] ▶
in a world
[1:00:47 - 1:00:48] ▶
that I really,
[1:00:48 - 1:00:49] ▶
honestly,
[1:00:49 - 1:00:49] ▶
didn't know existed,
[1:00:49 - 1:00:51] ▶
so I learned
[1:00:51 - 1:00:52] ▶
something from that.
[1:00:52 - 1:00:53] ▶
It's sort of like
[1:00:54 - 1:00:54] ▶
national security physics.
[1:00:54 - 1:00:56] ▶
National security physics?
[1:00:58 - 1:00:59] ▶
Yeah,
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that's not like
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a real thing,
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but if I look at
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a lot of your papers,
[1:01:01 - 1:01:02] ▶
they're focused on
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bizarre,
[1:01:04 - 1:01:08] ▶
how would I put it?
[1:01:08 - 1:01:09] ▶
Bizarre physics
[1:01:10 - 1:01:11] ▶
that accepts
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the standard model
[1:01:11 - 1:01:12] ▶
in general relativity
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as ground truth,
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predicated on
[1:01:15 - 1:01:16] ▶
some sort of
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engineering desire.
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Now,
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I'm just looking at,
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per my book,
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I was looking at
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the physics
[1:01:23 - 1:01:24] ▶
of what's possible
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with anti-gravity,
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gravitational wave
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propulsion,
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or rockets.
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Within what?
[1:01:29 - 1:01:30] ▶
Within what framework?
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Say again?
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Within GR?
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GR.
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Yeah.
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So GR with or without
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positivity constraints,
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or how are you,
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how are you,
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let's slow it down.
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First of all,
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I don't understand.
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If these things are here
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from out of town,
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if they're not
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co-resident with us
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here on Earth,
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they're not here
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using the standard model
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in general relativity,
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I don't think.
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I mean,
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it's not impossible.
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But I'm not doing
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UFO physics.
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I'm doing propulsion physics
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for interstellar flight.
[1:02:02 - 1:02:03] ▶
I'm not looking at this
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from a UFO perspective.
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I'm doing this
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as part of another part
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of my work.
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So maybe you can make this
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a...
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Or drives,
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wormholes,
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things like that.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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I'm not doing this
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because of UFOs.
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I'm just saying,
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hey,
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if this is valid
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to any degree,
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and we could expect
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maybe,
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or pray maybe,
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that in the future
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we can engineer
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these things,
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this could be
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how UFOs move
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because we're trying
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to develop this
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physics for exploitation
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as a technology
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for future interstellar
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and interstellar missions.
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So this is hugely important
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for me just to understand
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the context.
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If I understand,
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and please correct me
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if I'm wrong
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because I don't want
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to push anything
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that isn't true.
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I think what you're saying
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is assume a proof
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of concept
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that something
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can voyage
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at an interstellar level
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with intention.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay.
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Assuming that one piece
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of information,
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attempt to figure out
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how that could be done
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as best you can
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with the tools we have.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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So then you and I
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completely polarize,
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I think,
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and again,
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I could be wrong,
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on one issue.
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I would not be wasting my time.
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And again,
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that's judgmental.
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I would feel
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that I was wasting my time
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if I was trying
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to do this with GR,
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with general relativity.
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Okay.
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I might have
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an Alcubierre warp drive,
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but I'd think,
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how much energy
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do I need
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to warp space
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in this particular way?
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Right?
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Or,
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well,
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I could fall
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into a spinning black hole
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and,
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you know,
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maybe I could try
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to figure out
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how this would be
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traversable
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and non-catastrophic.
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And I could imagine
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using all of the exotica
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of GR.
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Well,
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I'll just,
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I'll bet everything
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on time dilation
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and it'll be really expensive
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to go there
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and home,
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but I can still get there
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using
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Lorentz
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conversion factors.
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None of that
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has any appeal to me.
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Clearly,
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it's had a great appeal
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to you,
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which is fine.
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We can polarize that.
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Surely,
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you don't think,
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isn't it much more plausible
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that if Kraft were true
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and we accept that
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as our premise,
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that it's basically proof
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that GR isn't the last world,
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that general relativity
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is a constricting framework
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and that there's something
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beyond it
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that has general relativity
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as an effective theory.
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I agree with that.
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And they're using that.
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I agree with that.
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Okay.
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So that makes this mysterious,
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which is,
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why are you using GR?
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Because that's the only tool
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I have that I know of
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from my graduate education
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and my research interest.
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And so I don't,
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I don't have the liberty to,
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I'm not a pure theoretical physicist.
[1:04:51 - 1:04:53] ▶
I'm more of like
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one foot theory,
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one foot applied.
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Okay.
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So let's take that.
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Okay.
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If I had access
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to anything
[1:05:01 - 1:05:02] ▶
that seemingly
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was breaking GR,
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general relativity,
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I'd be dreaming
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about things related
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to general relativity
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because we know
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that we don't like
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general relativity
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at a deep level.
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It's got a terrible variable in it,
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which is called the metric,
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where it's easy
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to fall into things
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that are not metrics
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from the space of metrics.
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Things,
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it just doesn't behave well
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in terms of quantization.
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We know that we have got
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these two kinks
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in space-time
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called the initial singularity,
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which we associate
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with the Big Bang
[1:05:34 - 1:05:35] ▶
and the Schwarzschild
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or black hole singularity
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that we associate
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with collapsed stars.
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Yeah.
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And
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I don't like GR.
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I mean,
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I love it
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from the point of view
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of Einstein
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having pulled it off,
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but it's 110 years
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past its sell-by date,
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and
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why
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are you not tweaking it?
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I don't have
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intuition
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on how I could tweak it.
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Okay.
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And I would rather
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somebody smarter than me
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do that.
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I would like to have
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somebody who tweaks it
[1:06:12 - 1:06:13] ▶
and I could look at it
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and say,
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hey,
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it either does
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or does not
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predict
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a potential
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propulsion mode
[1:06:19 - 1:06:21] ▶
that could get us
[1:06:21 - 1:06:22] ▶
to where we want to go
[1:06:22 - 1:06:24] ▶
across interstellar distances
[1:06:24 - 1:06:25] ▶
without the consequence
[1:06:25 - 1:06:26] ▶
of G over C to the fourth.
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So,
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how do I interpret...
[1:06:31 - 1:06:35] ▶
There are a lot of people
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who are interested in gravity.
[1:06:41 - 1:06:42] ▶
Yeah.
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And there are none of them
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on this program?
[1:06:44 - 1:06:45] ▶
Say that again.
[1:06:46 - 1:06:47] ▶
Other people are interested
[1:06:47 - 1:06:48] ▶
in gravity.
[1:06:48 - 1:06:49] ▶
Let me start from
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a different place.
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There is this 1971
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Australian document
[1:06:52 - 1:06:54] ▶
that I became aware of
[1:06:54 - 1:06:56] ▶
where the Australian
[1:06:56 - 1:06:56] ▶
intelligence officer,
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Harry,
[1:06:59 - 1:06:59] ▶
do you remember his last name?
[1:06:59 - 1:07:00] ▶
Harry Turner,
[1:07:00 - 1:07:00] ▶
who was head
[1:07:00 - 1:07:01] ▶
of their nuclear division.
[1:07:01 - 1:07:02] ▶
Starts writing down,
[1:07:03 - 1:07:04] ▶
here's what we surmise
[1:07:05 - 1:07:07] ▶
about our friends
[1:07:07 - 1:07:07] ▶
the Yanks
[1:07:07 - 1:07:08] ▶
and their efforts
[1:07:08 - 1:07:11] ▶
in this area.
[1:07:11 - 1:07:11] ▶
Okay.
[1:07:12 - 1:07:12] ▶
And he names
[1:07:12 - 1:07:13] ▶
six universities
[1:07:13 - 1:07:15] ▶
and the Institute
[1:07:15 - 1:07:17] ▶
for Advanced Study,
[1:07:17 - 1:07:17] ▶
MIT,
[1:07:17 - 1:07:18] ▶
Purdue,
[1:07:19 - 1:07:19] ▶
Indiana.
[1:07:19 - 1:07:20] ▶
I forget what
[1:07:21 - 1:07:22] ▶
the complete list is.
[1:07:22 - 1:07:24] ▶
And he names
[1:07:24 - 1:07:25] ▶
like Arnowitz,
[1:07:25 - 1:07:25] ▶
Desser,
[1:07:26 - 1:07:26] ▶
Dyson,
[1:07:26 - 1:07:28] ▶
Oppenheimer.
[1:07:28 - 1:07:29] ▶
And it sounds like
[1:07:29 - 1:07:31] ▶
the Manhattan Project
[1:07:31 - 1:07:32] ▶
for gravity.
[1:07:32 - 1:07:32] ▶
Okay.
[1:07:33 - 1:07:33] ▶
And this is broadly
[1:07:33 - 1:07:37] ▶
consistent with this story
[1:07:37 - 1:07:39] ▶
that I've been,
[1:07:39 - 1:07:40] ▶
I think I first did it
[1:07:41 - 1:07:43] ▶
on Rogan in episode 1945,
[1:07:43 - 1:07:46] ▶
which they gave me
[1:07:46 - 1:07:47] ▶
the Trinity date.
[1:07:47 - 1:07:48] ▶
I love that.
[1:07:48 - 1:07:48] ▶
Which is that we have
[1:07:50 - 1:07:52] ▶
this bizarre thing
[1:07:52 - 1:07:53] ▶
called the Golden Age
[1:07:53 - 1:07:54] ▶
of General Relativity,
[1:07:54 - 1:07:55] ▶
which makes absolutely
[1:07:55 - 1:07:56] ▶
no sense.
[1:07:56 - 1:07:57] ▶
And it's a story
[1:07:57 - 1:08:00] ▶
about two people,
[1:08:00 - 1:08:01] ▶
Agnew Bainson
[1:08:03 - 1:08:03] ▶
and Roger Babson,
[1:08:03 - 1:08:04] ▶
who appear to be
[1:08:05 - 1:08:06] ▶
in the language
[1:08:06 - 1:08:07] ▶
of the intelligence.
[1:08:07 - 1:08:08] ▶
And again,
[1:08:08 - 1:08:08] ▶
I'm not a guy
[1:08:08 - 1:08:09] ▶
who thinks he's seen
[1:08:09 - 1:08:10] ▶
a bunch of Jason Bourne movies
[1:08:10 - 1:08:11] ▶
so he can talk the lingo,
[1:08:11 - 1:08:12] ▶
but they appear to be
[1:08:13 - 1:08:14] ▶
what I've been told
[1:08:14 - 1:08:15] ▶
are cutouts.
[1:08:15 - 1:08:15] ▶
And they're both fitted
[1:08:16 - 1:08:17] ▶
with stories,
[1:08:17 - 1:08:18] ▶
it seems,
[1:08:18 - 1:08:18] ▶
about why they need
[1:08:19 - 1:08:20] ▶
to contribute
[1:08:20 - 1:08:20] ▶
to antigravity.
[1:08:20 - 1:08:22] ▶
And they find
[1:08:23 - 1:08:24] ▶
two physicists
[1:08:24 - 1:08:25] ▶
to work through,
[1:08:25 - 1:08:26] ▶
one named Bryce DeWitt
[1:08:26 - 1:08:27] ▶
so Agnew Bainson
[1:08:27 - 1:08:28] ▶
and John Wheeler
[1:08:28 - 1:08:29] ▶
find Bryce DeWitt
[1:08:29 - 1:08:30] ▶
and set him up
[1:08:30 - 1:08:32] ▶
at the University
[1:08:32 - 1:08:32] ▶
of North Carolina,
[1:08:32 - 1:08:33] ▶
Chapel Hill
[1:08:33 - 1:08:34] ▶
at the Institute
[1:08:34 - 1:08:34] ▶
of Field Physics.
[1:08:34 - 1:08:35] ▶
And then the other one,
[1:08:36 - 1:08:37] ▶
Roger Babson
[1:08:38 - 1:08:39] ▶
out of New Boston,
[1:08:39 - 1:08:41] ▶
New Hampshire,
[1:08:41 - 1:08:42] ▶
seems to be somehow
[1:08:43 - 1:08:44] ▶
linked up
[1:08:44 - 1:08:45] ▶
with a guy
[1:08:45 - 1:08:46] ▶
named Lewis Whitten,
[1:08:46 - 1:08:47] ▶
who's a gravitational
[1:08:47 - 1:08:48] ▶
physicist
[1:08:48 - 1:08:49] ▶
out of Johns Hopkins
[1:08:49 - 1:08:50] ▶
for his PhD
[1:08:50 - 1:08:51] ▶
and found something
[1:08:51 - 1:08:54] ▶
that sounds like
[1:08:54 - 1:08:55] ▶
Bell Labs
[1:08:55 - 1:08:55] ▶
that nobody's
[1:08:55 - 1:08:57] ▶
ever heard of
[1:08:57 - 1:08:58] ▶
called the Research
[1:08:58 - 1:08:59] ▶
Institute of Advanced
[1:08:59 - 1:09:00] ▶
Study,
[1:09:00 - 1:09:00] ▶
or RIAS,
[1:09:00 - 1:09:02] ▶
and it has Sheldon
[1:09:02 - 1:09:03] ▶
Glashow within it,
[1:09:03 - 1:09:04] ▶
it has Rudolf Kallmann
[1:09:04 - 1:09:06] ▶
within it.
[1:09:06 - 1:09:06] ▶
It has Solomon Lefschetz,
[1:09:07 - 1:09:08] ▶
the topologist,
[1:09:08 - 1:09:09] ▶
comes out of retirement
[1:09:10 - 1:09:11] ▶
to work inside
[1:09:11 - 1:09:14] ▶
of the Martin,
[1:09:14 - 1:09:15] ▶
and we always talk
[1:09:15 - 1:09:16] ▶
about Lockheed,
[1:09:16 - 1:09:16] ▶
but we don't talk
[1:09:16 - 1:09:17] ▶
about Glenel Martin
[1:09:17 - 1:09:19] ▶
that became Martin Marietta
[1:09:19 - 1:09:20] ▶
that became Lockheed Martin.
[1:09:20 - 1:09:22] ▶
So it's the Martin
[1:09:22 - 1:09:22] ▶
that really matters
[1:09:22 - 1:09:23] ▶
into me.
[1:09:23 - 1:09:24] ▶
Correct.
[1:09:24 - 1:09:24] ▶
And...
[1:09:25 - 1:09:25] ▶
And you and I
[1:09:25 - 1:09:27] ▶
talked about that
[1:09:27 - 1:09:28] ▶
years past,
[1:09:28 - 1:09:28] ▶
I've read the documents
[1:09:28 - 1:09:30] ▶
or the websites
[1:09:30 - 1:09:30] ▶
you've sent to me,
[1:09:30 - 1:09:31] ▶
and I'm already familiar
[1:09:31 - 1:09:32] ▶
with elements of that.
[1:09:32 - 1:09:33] ▶
Okay.
[1:09:33 - 1:09:33] ▶
I've got old
[1:09:33 - 1:09:34] ▶
newspaper clips.
[1:09:34 - 1:09:35] ▶
All right,
[1:09:35 - 1:09:35] ▶
so we've got 18 talent.
[1:09:35 - 1:09:37] ▶
We've got Sheldon Glashow,
[1:09:38 - 1:09:39] ▶
Rudolf Kallmann,
[1:09:39 - 1:09:40] ▶
Solomon Lefschetz,
[1:09:40 - 1:09:41] ▶
Desser Arnowitz Dyson.
[1:09:42 - 1:09:44] ▶
This begins to feel like,
[1:09:45 - 1:09:47] ▶
you know,
[1:09:47 - 1:09:47] ▶
the boys are back in town.
[1:09:47 - 1:09:48] ▶
Yeah, this is
[1:09:48 - 1:09:49] ▶
physics firepower.
[1:09:49 - 1:09:50] ▶
Yeah, right.
[1:09:50 - 1:09:51] ▶
And then the trail
[1:09:52 - 1:09:55] ▶
just seems to go cold
[1:09:55 - 1:09:56] ▶
in the beginning
[1:09:56 - 1:09:58] ▶
of the 1970s.
[1:09:58 - 1:10:01] ▶
Correct.
[1:10:01 - 1:10:01] ▶
So...
[1:10:02 - 1:10:02] ▶
And I could never
[1:10:02 - 1:10:03] ▶
reconcile that.
[1:10:03 - 1:10:04] ▶
I noticed that
[1:10:05 - 1:10:07] ▶
back in graduate school
[1:10:07 - 1:10:08] ▶
during the 80s,
[1:10:08 - 1:10:09] ▶
and I went to an APS meeting.
[1:10:09 - 1:10:12] ▶
That's the American
[1:10:12 - 1:10:13] ▶
Physical Society.
[1:10:13 - 1:10:14] ▶
So I went to an APS meeting
[1:10:15 - 1:10:16] ▶
with my dissertation supervisor,
[1:10:16 - 1:10:18] ▶
and I ran into...
[1:10:18 - 1:10:20] ▶
They have like a booth
[1:10:20 - 1:10:21] ▶
for the APS,
[1:10:21 - 1:10:22] ▶
you know,
[1:10:22 - 1:10:22] ▶
all the books they sell,
[1:10:22 - 1:10:23] ▶
the Physics Today magazine.
[1:10:24 - 1:10:28] ▶
Well, that was published
[1:10:28 - 1:10:29] ▶
by somebody else, actually.
[1:10:29 - 1:10:30] ▶
But they have all that
[1:10:30 - 1:10:31] ▶
for members,
[1:10:31 - 1:10:32] ▶
for membership services
[1:10:32 - 1:10:33] ▶
and benefits.
[1:10:33 - 1:10:34] ▶
And so they've got
[1:10:35 - 1:10:35] ▶
this advertising booth
[1:10:35 - 1:10:36] ▶
in the commercials exhibit
[1:10:36 - 1:10:38] ▶
part of the conference,
[1:10:38 - 1:10:39] ▶
and they had the APS historian.
[1:10:39 - 1:10:42] ▶
And I brought that up
[1:10:42 - 1:10:45] ▶
with the historian,
[1:10:45 - 1:10:46] ▶
like, what,
[1:10:46 - 1:10:47] ▶
1984?
[1:10:47 - 1:10:48] ▶
And Bob Forward
[1:10:49 - 1:10:51] ▶
was still at the Hughes Research Labs
[1:10:51 - 1:10:53] ▶
in Malibu.
[1:10:53 - 1:10:54] ▶
He's the one that motivated me
[1:10:54 - 1:10:55] ▶
to ask that question,
[1:10:55 - 1:10:56] ▶
because he had been looking
[1:10:56 - 1:10:58] ▶
at anti-gravity
[1:10:58 - 1:10:59] ▶
when he was at Hughes.
[1:10:59 - 1:11:01] ▶
And this is before
[1:11:01 - 1:11:02] ▶
he got his PhD
[1:11:02 - 1:11:04] ▶
and general relativity
[1:11:04 - 1:11:05] ▶
under Joseph Weber
[1:11:05 - 1:11:06] ▶
at University of Maryland
[1:11:06 - 1:11:09] ▶
in the late 50s.
[1:11:09 - 1:11:10] ▶
And the APS historian
[1:11:12 - 1:11:14] ▶
had no answer for me
[1:11:14 - 1:11:15] ▶
as to where this disconnect
[1:11:15 - 1:11:17] ▶
between the...
[1:11:17 - 1:11:19] ▶
Yeah,
[1:11:19 - 1:11:19] ▶
what happened
[1:11:20 - 1:11:21] ▶
to anti-gravity research?
[1:11:21 - 1:11:22] ▶
What happened
[1:11:22 - 1:11:22] ▶
to this golden age of GR?
[1:11:22 - 1:11:24] ▶
He said something
[1:11:24 - 1:11:27] ▶
to the effect of
[1:11:27 - 1:11:28] ▶
some more what you said.
[1:11:28 - 1:11:29] ▶
It disappeared in the 70s,
[1:11:29 - 1:11:30] ▶
but he never saw what happened.
[1:11:31 - 1:11:32] ▶
All of a sudden,
[1:11:32 - 1:11:32] ▶
roughly the early 80s,
[1:11:33 - 1:11:35] ▶
now we have
[1:11:35 - 1:11:35] ▶
super string theory coming up.
[1:11:35 - 1:11:37] ▶
No,
[1:11:39 - 1:11:39] ▶
there's an in-oregano.
[1:11:39 - 1:11:40] ▶
So,
[1:11:41 - 1:11:41] ▶
we have this golden age
[1:11:42 - 1:11:43] ▶
of general relativity.
[1:11:43 - 1:11:44] ▶
Things culminate
[1:11:45 - 1:11:46] ▶
in the standard model
[1:11:46 - 1:11:47] ▶
73-74
[1:11:47 - 1:11:48] ▶
in particle theory.
[1:11:48 - 1:11:50] ▶
There is a period
[1:11:51 - 1:11:53] ▶
where there are
[1:11:53 - 1:11:54] ▶
two great ideas
[1:11:54 - 1:11:55] ▶
in physics,
[1:11:55 - 1:11:55] ▶
supersymmetry
[1:11:56 - 1:11:56] ▶
and grand unification,
[1:11:56 - 1:11:58] ▶
which dominate
[1:11:58 - 1:11:59] ▶
during the 70s.
[1:11:59 - 1:12:01] ▶
Then there's
[1:12:01 - 1:12:02] ▶
a pre-string-like craze
[1:12:02 - 1:12:05] ▶
for something called
[1:12:05 - 1:12:06] ▶
N equals 8 supergravity.
[1:12:06 - 1:12:07] ▶
And N equals 8 supergravity
[1:12:08 - 1:12:10] ▶
was the candidate theory
[1:12:10 - 1:12:12] ▶
that's too unique
[1:12:12 - 1:12:13] ▶
to be wrong,
[1:12:13 - 1:12:14] ▶
theory of everything.
[1:12:14 - 1:12:15] ▶
And then right up
[1:12:16 - 1:12:16] ▶
until 1984,
[1:12:16 - 1:12:18] ▶
where we get
[1:12:18 - 1:12:19] ▶
the Green-Schwarz
[1:12:19 - 1:12:20] ▶
anomaly cancellation
[1:12:20 - 1:12:21] ▶
at Ed Witten,
[1:12:21 - 1:12:22] ▶
Lewis Witten's son,
[1:12:22 - 1:12:23] ▶
directs the entire field
[1:12:24 - 1:12:26] ▶
to put its energies
[1:12:26 - 1:12:28] ▶
on one bet.
[1:12:28 - 1:12:29] ▶
And this is where
[1:12:30 - 1:12:31] ▶
the phrase
[1:12:31 - 1:12:32] ▶
the only game in town,
[1:12:32 - 1:12:33] ▶
which is-
[1:12:33 - 1:12:34] ▶
Yeah, I remember that.
[1:12:34 - 1:12:34] ▶
Tojit,
[1:12:34 - 1:12:35] ▶
T-O-G-I-T,
[1:12:35 - 1:12:36] ▶
the only game in town.
[1:12:36 - 1:12:37] ▶
And Tojit
[1:12:38 - 1:12:39] ▶
takes over physics
[1:12:39 - 1:12:40] ▶
where if you say
[1:12:40 - 1:12:41] ▶
anything that isn't string
[1:12:41 - 1:12:43] ▶
during this period
[1:12:43 - 1:12:44] ▶
right after 1984,
[1:12:44 - 1:12:46] ▶
it's a bloodbath.
[1:12:46 - 1:12:48] ▶
And basically,
[1:12:48 - 1:12:49] ▶
Feynman is upset about it.
[1:12:49 - 1:12:51] ▶
Glashow is upset about it.
[1:12:51 - 1:12:52] ▶
Weinberg basically
[1:12:53 - 1:12:54] ▶
pleads no contest
[1:12:54 - 1:12:55] ▶
and says,
[1:12:55 - 1:12:56] ▶
I'm voting with my feet.
[1:12:56 - 1:12:57] ▶
I'm gonna go do
[1:12:57 - 1:12:58] ▶
this cosmology in Texas.
[1:12:58 - 1:13:00] ▶
And years later,
[1:13:02 - 1:13:04] ▶
we get this very weird
[1:13:04 - 1:13:06] ▶
meeting about AI,
[1:13:06 - 1:13:09] ▶
not related to physics,
[1:13:09 - 1:13:10] ▶
between Marc Andreessen
[1:13:10 - 1:13:11] ▶
and Ben Horowitz.
[1:13:11 - 1:13:12] ▶
And they're sat down
[1:13:12 - 1:13:15] ▶
and told,
[1:13:15 - 1:13:16] ▶
do not invest
[1:13:16 - 1:13:17] ▶
in AI startups.
[1:13:17 - 1:13:19] ▶
AI startups are not
[1:13:19 - 1:13:20] ▶
going to be allowed
[1:13:20 - 1:13:21] ▶
to be a thing.
[1:13:21 - 1:13:22] ▶
We're gonna have
[1:13:22 - 1:13:22] ▶
two or three AI companies
[1:13:22 - 1:13:24] ▶
and we're gonna cocoon them
[1:13:24 - 1:13:26] ▶
as part of the federal government.
[1:13:26 - 1:13:28] ▶
And Andreessen
[1:13:29 - 1:13:30] ▶
and Horowitz are sitting there
[1:13:30 - 1:13:32] ▶
and Horowitz says,
[1:13:32 - 1:13:33] ▶
I think they say,
[1:13:33 - 1:13:34] ▶
well, how are you going
[1:13:34 - 1:13:35] ▶
to restrict this?
[1:13:35 - 1:13:37] ▶
You can't do it
[1:13:37 - 1:13:37] ▶
at the technology level
[1:13:37 - 1:13:38] ▶
because it's just math
[1:13:38 - 1:13:39] ▶
and you can't classify math.
[1:13:39 - 1:13:41] ▶
Yeah.
[1:13:41 - 1:13:41] ▶
So Ben basically said,
[1:13:41 - 1:13:43] ▶
look, it doesn't make sense
[1:13:43 - 1:13:44] ▶
because to regulate AI
[1:13:44 - 1:13:45] ▶
at the technology level,
[1:13:45 - 1:13:45] ▶
you're regulating math.
[1:13:45 - 1:13:46] ▶
And of course,
[1:13:46 - 1:13:47] ▶
we're not gonna do that.
[1:13:47 - 1:13:47] ▶
Like, that doesn't make any sense.
[1:13:48 - 1:13:49] ▶
And you'll recall
[1:13:49 - 1:13:50] ▶
that what they said was,
[1:13:50 - 1:13:51] ▶
no, actually...
[1:13:51 - 1:13:52] ▶
We can classify math.
[1:13:52 - 1:13:53] ▶
We can classify math.
[1:13:53 - 1:13:55] ▶
And literally,
[1:13:55 - 1:13:55] ▶
this is verbatim.
[1:13:55 - 1:13:57] ▶
This is...
[1:13:57 - 1:13:58] ▶
We classified
[1:13:58 - 1:13:59] ▶
whole entire areas
[1:13:59 - 1:14:00] ▶
of physics
[1:14:00 - 1:14:01] ▶
in the nuclear era
[1:14:01 - 1:14:02] ▶
and made them state secrets
[1:14:02 - 1:14:04] ▶
of the theoretical...
[1:14:04 - 1:14:07] ▶
Physics, yeah.
[1:14:07 - 1:14:08] ▶
Science of physics.
[1:14:08 - 1:14:09] ▶
Okay.
[1:14:09 - 1:14:10] ▶
Now, quantum gravity,
[1:14:10 - 1:14:11] ▶
if you look
[1:14:12 - 1:14:14] ▶
and you do
[1:14:14 - 1:14:14] ▶
a Google Ngram search,
[1:14:14 - 1:14:16] ▶
there's basically
[1:14:16 - 1:14:17] ▶
no hits
[1:14:17 - 1:14:18] ▶
on quantum gravity
[1:14:18 - 1:14:19] ▶
until around 1972.
[1:14:19 - 1:14:20] ▶
And it comes
[1:14:21 - 1:14:22] ▶
out of nowhere.
[1:14:22 - 1:14:23] ▶
And we're backfitted
[1:14:23 - 1:14:24] ▶
with a story
[1:14:24 - 1:14:25] ▶
where...
[1:14:25 - 1:14:26] ▶
I can get
[1:14:26 - 1:14:30] ▶
almost any physicist
[1:14:30 - 1:14:31] ▶
of today
[1:14:31 - 1:14:32] ▶
to repeat the phrase
[1:14:32 - 1:14:33] ▶
that quantum gravity
[1:14:33 - 1:14:35] ▶
is the holy grail
[1:14:35 - 1:14:36] ▶
of theoretical physics.
[1:14:36 - 1:14:37] ▶
That's right.
[1:14:37 - 1:14:37] ▶
It's a fictitious history.
[1:14:37 - 1:14:39] ▶
I remember
[1:14:39 - 1:14:39] ▶
that's when
[1:14:39 - 1:14:40] ▶
Folling, Davies,
[1:14:40 - 1:14:42] ▶
Ford,
[1:14:42 - 1:14:44] ▶
and that group
[1:14:44 - 1:14:46] ▶
started publishing
[1:14:46 - 1:14:48] ▶
their papers
[1:14:48 - 1:14:48] ▶
on semi-classical
[1:14:48 - 1:14:49] ▶
quantum gravity.
[1:14:49 - 1:14:50] ▶
Well, but my point is
[1:14:51 - 1:14:53] ▶
the physicists
[1:14:53 - 1:14:54] ▶
do not know
[1:14:54 - 1:14:55] ▶
their own history.
[1:14:55 - 1:14:56] ▶
Just the way
[1:14:56 - 1:14:56] ▶
most academicians
[1:14:56 - 1:14:58] ▶
believe that peer review
[1:14:58 - 1:14:59] ▶
goes back
[1:14:59 - 1:14:59] ▶
to the founding
[1:14:59 - 1:15:00] ▶
of the Royal Society.
[1:15:00 - 1:15:01] ▶
And it's very clear
[1:15:02 - 1:15:02] ▶
that it comes
[1:15:02 - 1:15:03] ▶
from about 1965
[1:15:03 - 1:15:04] ▶
to 1975.
[1:15:04 - 1:15:05] ▶
Okay.
[1:15:06 - 1:15:06] ▶
So what we've done
[1:15:06 - 1:15:09] ▶
is we've erased
[1:15:09 - 1:15:10] ▶
institutional memory
[1:15:10 - 1:15:11] ▶
of the physicist's
[1:15:11 - 1:15:14] ▶
origin story
[1:15:14 - 1:15:15] ▶
from the physics community.
[1:15:15 - 1:15:16] ▶
And this issue
[1:15:16 - 1:15:17] ▶
of quantum gravity
[1:15:17 - 1:15:18] ▶
looks like
[1:15:18 - 1:15:20] ▶
a cock-blocking mechanism
[1:15:20 - 1:15:23] ▶
that it basically
[1:15:23 - 1:15:24] ▶
binds to the receptor
[1:15:24 - 1:15:25] ▶
of a physicist's mind
[1:15:25 - 1:15:27] ▶
and it causes them
[1:15:27 - 1:15:28] ▶
not to make progress.
[1:15:28 - 1:15:29] ▶
And so we're 42 years
[1:15:30 - 1:15:31] ▶
into an unquestionable...
[1:15:31 - 1:15:32] ▶
feels like a mass psychosis.
[1:15:32 - 1:15:37] ▶
Yeah.
[1:15:37 - 1:15:37] ▶
We've had
[1:15:38 - 1:15:38] ▶
all these different approaches
[1:15:38 - 1:15:39] ▶
that never work
[1:15:39 - 1:15:40] ▶
to quantize gravity.
[1:15:40 - 1:15:41] ▶
Right.
[1:15:42 - 1:15:42] ▶
So you have what appears
[1:15:42 - 1:15:43] ▶
to be a mass delusion.
[1:15:43 - 1:15:44] ▶
Not that it wouldn't
[1:15:45 - 1:15:45] ▶
be a good theory.
[1:15:45 - 1:15:46] ▶
I believe that gravity
[1:15:46 - 1:15:48] ▶
has to be harmonized
[1:15:48 - 1:15:49] ▶
with the quantum.
[1:15:49 - 1:15:49] ▶
I'm not disputing
[1:15:49 - 1:15:51] ▶
the quantum.
[1:15:51 - 1:15:51] ▶
Yeah, there's no question.
[1:15:51 - 1:15:52] ▶
But the idea
[1:15:52 - 1:15:53] ▶
that Einstein
[1:15:53 - 1:15:54] ▶
must be beaten,
[1:15:54 - 1:15:55] ▶
taken to the ground,
[1:15:56 - 1:15:57] ▶
and forced to submit
[1:15:57 - 1:15:58] ▶
to the quantum
[1:15:58 - 1:15:59] ▶
has not been productive.
[1:15:59 - 1:16:01] ▶
Correct.
[1:16:01 - 1:16:02] ▶
And...
[1:16:02 - 1:16:02] ▶
I agree.
[1:16:02 - 1:16:03] ▶
Okay.
[1:16:03 - 1:16:03] ▶
But after 42 years
[1:16:04 - 1:16:06] ▶
of failure,
[1:16:06 - 1:16:06] ▶
you would imagine
[1:16:07 - 1:16:08] ▶
we would hold
[1:16:08 - 1:16:08] ▶
at least one, two,
[1:16:08 - 1:16:09] ▶
or ten conferences
[1:16:10 - 1:16:11] ▶
saying,
[1:16:11 - 1:16:11] ▶
what do we have wrong?
[1:16:11 - 1:16:12] ▶
Why are we not
[1:16:13 - 1:16:13] ▶
trying to make progress?
[1:16:13 - 1:16:14] ▶
And you don't see that.
[1:16:14 - 1:16:15] ▶
Well, that's the mirror
[1:16:15 - 1:16:16] ▶
to your thing
[1:16:16 - 1:16:17] ▶
that there are no physicists
[1:16:17 - 1:16:18] ▶
on the program.
[1:16:18 - 1:16:19] ▶
In other words,
[1:16:20 - 1:16:20] ▶
this is an effect
[1:16:20 - 1:16:22] ▶
that is so dumb,
[1:16:22 - 1:16:24] ▶
it is so pathologically stupid,
[1:16:25 - 1:16:27] ▶
so unfathomably wasteful.
[1:16:27 - 1:16:29] ▶
Why would you not question
[1:16:30 - 1:16:31] ▶
your own lack of progress?
[1:16:31 - 1:16:33] ▶
You know,
[1:16:33 - 1:16:34] ▶
in fact,
[1:16:34 - 1:16:34] ▶
Leonard Susskind,
[1:16:35 - 1:16:35] ▶
one of the fathers
[1:16:35 - 1:16:36] ▶
of modern string theory,
[1:16:36 - 1:16:37] ▶
was on a show
[1:16:37 - 1:16:39] ▶
of a sister podcast,
[1:16:39 - 1:16:41] ▶
Kurt Jai-Mungle's
[1:16:41 - 1:16:42] ▶
Theories of Everything.
[1:16:42 - 1:16:43] ▶
Or maybe it was
[1:16:45 - 1:16:46] ▶
with Lawrence Krasn.
[1:16:46 - 1:16:46] ▶
And he says,
[1:16:46 - 1:16:47] ▶
we have to go back
[1:16:47 - 1:16:49] ▶
to the beginning.
[1:16:49 - 1:16:50] ▶
We have to question
[1:16:50 - 1:16:51] ▶
absolutely,
[1:16:51 - 1:16:52] ▶
we've got this wrong.
[1:16:53 - 1:16:54] ▶
If we don't go back
[1:16:54 - 1:16:56] ▶
to the foundations,
[1:16:56 - 1:16:57] ▶
I'm just thinking like,
[1:16:57 - 1:16:58] ▶
finally,
[1:16:58 - 1:16:59] ▶
it's breaking.
[1:16:59 - 1:17:00] ▶
He says,
[1:17:00 - 1:17:00] ▶
the foundations,
[1:17:00 - 1:17:01] ▶
and he says,
[1:17:01 - 1:17:01] ▶
of string theory.
[1:17:01 - 1:17:02] ▶
I said,
[1:17:03 - 1:17:04] ▶
oh,
[1:17:04 - 1:17:04] ▶
string theory has failed,
[1:17:04 - 1:17:06] ▶
so what we need to do
[1:17:06 - 1:17:06] ▶
is not question
[1:17:06 - 1:17:07] ▶
the string assumption,
[1:17:07 - 1:17:08] ▶
but we have to go back
[1:17:09 - 1:17:09] ▶
to the foundations
[1:17:09 - 1:17:10] ▶
of string theory
[1:17:10 - 1:17:11] ▶
and fix string theory.
[1:17:11 - 1:17:12] ▶
I mean,
[1:17:12 - 1:17:12] ▶
it's an infinite sequence.
[1:17:12 - 1:17:13] ▶
So one of the questions
[1:17:14 - 1:17:14] ▶
that I have is,
[1:17:14 - 1:17:16] ▶
is physics just,
[1:17:17 - 1:17:18] ▶
are we not getting
[1:17:19 - 1:17:19] ▶
the obvious?
[1:17:19 - 1:17:20] ▶
Somebody figured out
[1:17:21 - 1:17:22] ▶
that physics
[1:17:22 - 1:17:22] ▶
is just too dangerous
[1:17:22 - 1:17:24] ▶
to do in a university setting.
[1:17:24 - 1:17:26] ▶
It seems that way to me.
[1:17:28 - 1:17:30] ▶
It seems that way to me.
[1:17:31 - 1:17:32] ▶
Because you see,
[1:17:33 - 1:17:33] ▶
now we're a joke.
[1:17:33 - 1:17:34] ▶
That's right.
[1:17:35 - 1:17:35] ▶
But in 1979,
[1:17:36 - 1:17:40] ▶
77,
[1:17:40 - 1:17:41] ▶
you had these two
[1:17:42 - 1:17:43] ▶
Streisand effect problems.
[1:17:43 - 1:17:45] ▶
You had a guy named
[1:17:45 - 1:17:46] ▶
John Aristotle Phillips,
[1:17:46 - 1:17:48] ▶
who was a junior
[1:17:48 - 1:17:48] ▶
at Princeton,
[1:17:48 - 1:17:49] ▶
who chose Freeman Dyson
[1:17:49 - 1:17:51] ▶
for his advisor,
[1:17:51 - 1:17:52] ▶
for his junior thesis.
[1:17:53 - 1:17:54] ▶
And he said,
[1:17:54 - 1:17:55] ▶
look,
[1:17:55 - 1:17:56] ▶
I'm the Princeton mascot.
[1:17:56 - 1:17:57] ▶
I'm not really
[1:17:58 - 1:17:58] ▶
very good at physics.
[1:17:58 - 1:17:59] ▶
Can we use the fact
[1:17:59 - 1:18:00] ▶
that I'm not really good
[1:18:00 - 1:18:01] ▶
at physics
[1:18:01 - 1:18:01] ▶
to do something novel?
[1:18:01 - 1:18:02] ▶
And Dyson said,
[1:18:03 - 1:18:03] ▶
like what?
[1:18:03 - 1:18:04] ▶
He said,
[1:18:04 - 1:18:04] ▶
well,
[1:18:04 - 1:18:04] ▶
I want to design
[1:18:04 - 1:18:05] ▶
an atomic weapon,
[1:18:05 - 1:18:06] ▶
and I want you to tell me
[1:18:06 - 1:18:07] ▶
whether my design
[1:18:07 - 1:18:08] ▶
would work
[1:18:08 - 1:18:09] ▶
using my limited
[1:18:09 - 1:18:10] ▶
understanding of physics.
[1:18:10 - 1:18:11] ▶
And Dyson said,
[1:18:12 - 1:18:13] ▶
as long as I give you
[1:18:13 - 1:18:14] ▶
no information,
[1:18:14 - 1:18:15] ▶
I simply tell you
[1:18:15 - 1:18:15] ▶
whether it would work
[1:18:15 - 1:18:16] ▶
or not,
[1:18:16 - 1:18:16] ▶
and you do it all
[1:18:16 - 1:18:17] ▶
100%,
[1:18:17 - 1:18:17] ▶
you're on,
[1:18:17 - 1:18:18] ▶
you're on.
[1:18:18 - 1:18:18] ▶
So he submitted
[1:18:18 - 1:18:22] ▶
his junior thesis.
[1:18:22 - 1:18:23] ▶
Dyson took one look
[1:18:23 - 1:18:24] ▶
at it and said,
[1:18:24 - 1:18:25] ▶
yeah,
[1:18:25 - 1:18:25] ▶
this will work.
[1:18:25 - 1:18:25] ▶
They removed page 20,
[1:18:26 - 1:18:28] ▶
and I believe
[1:18:28 - 1:18:32] ▶
it is not found
[1:18:32 - 1:18:32] ▶
in the Princeton library
[1:18:32 - 1:18:33] ▶
with all of the
[1:18:33 - 1:18:34] ▶
other junior theses.
[1:18:34 - 1:18:35] ▶
Oh, really?
[1:18:35 - 1:18:36] ▶
You'd never heard
[1:18:37 - 1:18:38] ▶
this story?
[1:18:38 - 1:18:38] ▶
I did.
[1:18:39 - 1:18:39] ▶
I had not heard
[1:18:39 - 1:18:41] ▶
that story before.
[1:18:41 - 1:18:41] ▶
That's news.
[1:18:42 - 1:18:42] ▶
Okay.
[1:18:43 - 1:18:43] ▶
That's very interesting.
[1:18:43 - 1:18:45] ▶
Very, very telling.
[1:18:45 - 1:18:46] ▶
John Aristotle Phillips
[1:18:46 - 1:18:48] ▶
is the guy
[1:18:48 - 1:18:48] ▶
who is in the center of that.
[1:18:48 - 1:18:50] ▶
There's another guy
[1:18:50 - 1:18:51] ▶
named Howard Moreland
[1:18:51 - 1:18:52] ▶
who worked for
[1:18:52 - 1:18:54] ▶
the Progressive magazine,
[1:18:54 - 1:18:55] ▶
and he had the assignment,
[1:18:56 - 1:18:58] ▶
see if you can figure out
[1:18:58 - 1:19:00] ▶
with no knowledge of physics
[1:19:00 - 1:19:01] ▶
the Teller-Ulam design
[1:19:01 - 1:19:03] ▶
for the hydrogen bomb.
[1:19:03 - 1:19:04] ▶
And he did it.
[1:19:06 - 1:19:07] ▶
And he did it
[1:19:07 - 1:19:08] ▶
because all of the
[1:19:08 - 1:19:09] ▶
information
[1:19:09 - 1:19:12] ▶
had been sharded
[1:19:13 - 1:19:14] ▶
and discarded
[1:19:14 - 1:19:15] ▶
and declassified.
[1:19:15 - 1:19:18] ▶
He basically put
[1:19:18 - 1:19:19] ▶
the pieces
[1:19:19 - 1:19:19] ▶
of the broken coffee cup
[1:19:19 - 1:19:21] ▶
back together
[1:19:21 - 1:19:22] ▶
by being meticulous.
[1:19:22 - 1:19:23] ▶
So it was
[1:19:23 - 1:19:23] ▶
an archaeology
[1:19:23 - 1:19:25] ▶
and reassembly.
[1:19:25 - 1:19:26] ▶
It was a reverse
[1:19:26 - 1:19:27] ▶
engineering program
[1:19:27 - 1:19:27] ▶
from the shredder
[1:19:27 - 1:19:29] ▶
of theoretical physics.
[1:19:29 - 1:19:30] ▶
Yeah, I agree with that.
[1:19:30 - 1:19:31] ▶
That sounds like it.
[1:19:31 - 1:19:32] ▶
Okay.
[1:19:32 - 1:19:32] ▶
Well, that violates
[1:19:32 - 1:19:33] ▶
restricted data,
[1:19:33 - 1:19:35] ▶
which is this
[1:19:35 - 1:19:36] ▶
bizarre doctrine
[1:19:36 - 1:19:37] ▶
that comes from
[1:19:37 - 1:19:37] ▶
the 54
[1:19:37 - 1:19:38] ▶
and 46
[1:19:38 - 1:19:41] ▶
atomic energy acts.
[1:19:41 - 1:19:43] ▶
and the government
[1:19:43 - 1:19:46] ▶
wanted to
[1:19:46 - 1:19:47] ▶
use prior injunction
[1:19:47 - 1:19:49] ▶
against him
[1:19:49 - 1:19:50] ▶
because he had no right
[1:19:50 - 1:19:52] ▶
to free speech
[1:19:52 - 1:19:53] ▶
in this area.
[1:19:53 - 1:19:53] ▶
And I think
[1:19:54 - 1:19:55] ▶
what they found
[1:19:55 - 1:19:56] ▶
was we can't stop him
[1:19:56 - 1:19:57] ▶
because we declassified
[1:19:57 - 1:19:59] ▶
all the information
[1:19:59 - 1:19:59] ▶
he used.
[1:19:59 - 1:20:00] ▶
So that gave the government
[1:20:01 - 1:20:02] ▶
a huge problem,
[1:20:02 - 1:20:03] ▶
which is that it was
[1:20:03 - 1:20:04] ▶
creating a Streisand effect
[1:20:04 - 1:20:05] ▶
and calling attention
[1:20:05 - 1:20:07] ▶
to the fact
[1:20:07 - 1:20:08] ▶
that there are no
[1:20:08 - 1:20:08] ▶
nuclear secrets.
[1:20:08 - 1:20:09] ▶
I mean,
[1:20:09 - 1:20:10] ▶
there are probably many,
[1:20:10 - 1:20:11] ▶
but the core ideas
[1:20:11 - 1:20:13] ▶
are not the gating function.
[1:20:13 - 1:20:15] ▶
Yeah, that's right.
[1:20:15 - 1:20:16] ▶
Okay.
[1:20:16 - 1:20:16] ▶
Shortly after that,
[1:20:18 - 1:20:19] ▶
we get string theory
[1:20:19 - 1:20:20] ▶
and we become
[1:20:20 - 1:20:21] ▶
kind of incapable.
[1:20:21 - 1:20:22] ▶
Right?
[1:20:23 - 1:20:23] ▶
It's like the glass bead game
[1:20:23 - 1:20:25] ▶
or something
[1:20:25 - 1:20:25] ▶
that amuses people
[1:20:25 - 1:20:27] ▶
at a very high level.
[1:20:27 - 1:20:28] ▶
Like, we're turning
[1:20:28 - 1:20:28] ▶
the best physicists
[1:20:28 - 1:20:30] ▶
into chess players
[1:20:30 - 1:20:31] ▶
because nobody ever
[1:20:31 - 1:20:32] ▶
blew something up
[1:20:32 - 1:20:33] ▶
with a rook.
[1:20:33 - 1:20:33] ▶
Right?
[1:20:34 - 1:20:34] ▶
And I guess
[1:20:34 - 1:20:38] ▶
my question to you is,
[1:20:38 - 1:20:40] ▶
are these two sides
[1:20:40 - 1:20:41] ▶
of the same coin
[1:20:41 - 1:20:42] ▶
that we don't make progress
[1:20:42 - 1:20:43] ▶
beyond the standard model
[1:20:43 - 1:20:45] ▶
and general relativity
[1:20:45 - 1:20:45] ▶
and we don't have
[1:20:45 - 1:20:46] ▶
any physicists
[1:20:46 - 1:20:47] ▶
on the UFO-UAP
[1:20:47 - 1:20:48] ▶
claimed crash retrieval program?
[1:20:48 - 1:20:50] ▶
I've always thought
[1:20:52 - 1:20:53] ▶
that the answer
[1:20:53 - 1:20:54] ▶
is yes to that question.
[1:20:54 - 1:20:55] ▶
Do you have any interaction
[1:20:56 - 1:20:58] ▶
with the Jasons?
[1:20:58 - 1:20:59] ▶
No, never.
[1:20:59 - 1:21:00] ▶
You know who they are?
[1:21:01 - 1:21:01] ▶
They change.
[1:21:02 - 1:21:03] ▶
They're not always
[1:21:03 - 1:21:04] ▶
the same group.
[1:21:04 - 1:21:05] ▶
No, I've never met
[1:21:06 - 1:21:07] ▶
any of them.
[1:21:07 - 1:21:07] ▶
I know who...
[1:21:08 - 1:21:09] ▶
At the time I knew
[1:21:09 - 1:21:11] ▶
who was in the Jasons,
[1:21:11 - 1:21:12] ▶
I didn't know any
[1:21:12 - 1:21:13] ▶
of the people
[1:21:13 - 1:21:14] ▶
on the committee.
[1:21:14 - 1:21:14] ▶
Do you want to describe
[1:21:16 - 1:21:17] ▶
what they're supposed to be?
[1:21:17 - 1:21:18] ▶
They're supposed
[1:21:19 - 1:21:19] ▶
to solve problems
[1:21:19 - 1:21:20] ▶
that the DoD gives them.
[1:21:20 - 1:21:21] ▶
And it's supposed
[1:21:22 - 1:21:23] ▶
to be comprised
[1:21:23 - 1:21:24] ▶
of high-level physicists,
[1:21:24 - 1:21:25] ▶
mathematicians,
[1:21:25 - 1:21:26] ▶
and the like.
[1:21:26 - 1:21:27] ▶
Yeah, engineers too.
[1:21:27 - 1:21:28] ▶
Yeah.
[1:21:28 - 1:21:28] ▶
Yeah, yeah.
[1:21:28 - 1:21:28] ▶
There's specific
[1:21:29 - 1:21:29] ▶
government problems.
[1:21:29 - 1:21:30] ▶
Problems, yeah.
[1:21:31 - 1:21:31] ▶
Problems they need
[1:21:32 - 1:21:33] ▶
a solution for,
[1:21:33 - 1:21:34] ▶
so they give a contract
[1:21:34 - 1:21:35] ▶
to the Jasons
[1:21:35 - 1:21:35] ▶
to study a particular
[1:21:35 - 1:21:36] ▶
thread of problems
[1:21:36 - 1:21:38] ▶
over summer.
[1:21:38 - 1:21:38] ▶
These are academic missions,
[1:21:39 - 1:21:40] ▶
so they're off
[1:21:40 - 1:21:40] ▶
from school for the summer.
[1:21:40 - 1:21:41] ▶
And they devote
[1:21:42 - 1:21:43] ▶
their time and energy
[1:21:43 - 1:21:44] ▶
to solving this problem,
[1:21:44 - 1:21:45] ▶
produce a report,
[1:21:45 - 1:21:46] ▶
turn it in,
[1:21:46 - 1:21:46] ▶
they collect the money,
[1:21:47 - 1:21:47] ▶
they're done.
[1:21:47 - 1:21:48] ▶
One of the things
[1:21:51 - 1:21:52] ▶
that I think
[1:21:52 - 1:21:53] ▶
is really interesting
[1:21:53 - 1:21:54] ▶
is that there are
[1:21:54 - 1:21:55] ▶
a tiny number of people
[1:21:55 - 1:21:57] ▶
at a very high level
[1:21:57 - 1:21:59] ▶
in theoretical,
[1:21:59 - 1:22:00] ▶
in foundations
[1:22:01 - 1:22:02] ▶
of theoretical physics.
[1:22:02 - 1:22:03] ▶
Correct.
[1:22:03 - 1:22:03] ▶
And I think most people
[1:22:04 - 1:22:05] ▶
don't understand
[1:22:05 - 1:22:06] ▶
what some of these people are.
[1:22:06 - 1:22:09] ▶
If I show you a violinist
[1:22:09 - 1:22:11] ▶
who's a soloist,
[1:22:11 - 1:22:13] ▶
there's no possibility
[1:22:13 - 1:22:15] ▶
you can convince yourself
[1:22:15 - 1:22:16] ▶
that that guy knows nothing
[1:22:16 - 1:22:17] ▶
or that anybody
[1:22:17 - 1:22:19] ▶
could do that, right?
[1:22:19 - 1:22:20] ▶
Like you see something
[1:22:20 - 1:22:20] ▶
that's so astounding,
[1:22:20 - 1:22:21] ▶
only a tiny few
[1:22:21 - 1:22:24] ▶
could do it.
[1:22:24 - 1:22:24] ▶
I believe that the same
[1:22:25 - 1:22:26] ▶
thing is true
[1:22:26 - 1:22:27] ▶
about theoretical physics
[1:22:27 - 1:22:29] ▶
and pure mathematics,
[1:22:29 - 1:22:32] ▶
that once you're
[1:22:32 - 1:22:33] ▶
in the game,
[1:22:33 - 1:22:33] ▶
you realize
[1:22:34 - 1:22:35] ▶
what a tiny number
[1:22:35 - 1:22:37] ▶
of people are
[1:22:37 - 1:22:37] ▶
at the highest level
[1:22:37 - 1:22:38] ▶
in this game.
[1:22:38 - 1:22:39] ▶
And it's just very vertical
[1:22:39 - 1:22:40] ▶
and there's no mercy.
[1:22:40 - 1:22:41] ▶
Oh, that's true.
[1:22:42 - 1:22:42] ▶
Okay.
[1:22:42 - 1:22:43] ▶
I've done that
[1:22:43 - 1:22:44] ▶
all the way
[1:22:44 - 1:22:45] ▶
since I was in middle school.
[1:22:45 - 1:22:47] ▶
I read enough
[1:22:47 - 1:22:48] ▶
of physics literature
[1:22:48 - 1:22:49] ▶
when I was a kid,
[1:22:49 - 1:22:50] ▶
I realized that.
[1:22:50 - 1:22:51] ▶
So here's my question.
[1:22:51 - 1:22:52] ▶
If I look
[1:22:53 - 1:22:54] ▶
at those people,
[1:22:54 - 1:22:55] ▶
there's so few in number,
[1:22:55 - 1:22:57] ▶
I could track all of them.
[1:22:57 - 1:22:58] ▶
And you pretty much know,
[1:22:59 - 1:23:00] ▶
not exactly,
[1:23:00 - 1:23:02] ▶
but by their PhD,
[1:23:02 - 1:23:03] ▶
you have a 75% chance
[1:23:03 - 1:23:05] ▶
that you've identified
[1:23:05 - 1:23:06] ▶
deep talent.
[1:23:06 - 1:23:07] ▶
Yeah.
[1:23:08 - 1:23:09] ▶
So, you know,
[1:23:09 - 1:23:10] ▶
one of the things
[1:23:10 - 1:23:11] ▶
I've said to Jesse
[1:23:11 - 1:23:11] ▶
is if you wanted to figure out
[1:23:11 - 1:23:13] ▶
that the NSA was there
[1:23:13 - 1:23:14] ▶
while it was still
[1:23:14 - 1:23:16] ▶
no such agency,
[1:23:16 - 1:23:17] ▶
you'd look at number theory PhDs
[1:23:17 - 1:23:20] ▶
and you'd ask,
[1:23:20 - 1:23:20] ▶
what zip codes
[1:23:20 - 1:23:21] ▶
do number theory PhDs
[1:23:21 - 1:23:23] ▶
live in
[1:23:23 - 1:23:24] ▶
when they don't get
[1:23:24 - 1:23:25] ▶
an academic job
[1:23:25 - 1:23:26] ▶
that's visible
[1:23:26 - 1:23:27] ▶
and you find that
[1:23:27 - 1:23:27] ▶
they're clustered
[1:23:27 - 1:23:28] ▶
around Fort Meade.
[1:23:28 - 1:23:29] ▶
Yeah.
[1:23:30 - 1:23:31] ▶
Okay.
[1:23:31 - 1:23:32] ▶
Do the same thing
[1:23:32 - 1:23:33] ▶
for this.
[1:23:33 - 1:23:33] ▶
Imagine that
[1:23:34 - 1:23:34] ▶
what you need
[1:23:34 - 1:23:35] ▶
is you need
[1:23:35 - 1:23:36] ▶
general relativity,
[1:23:36 - 1:23:37] ▶
the differential geometry
[1:23:37 - 1:23:38] ▶
that goes underneath it.
[1:23:38 - 1:23:40] ▶
So let's call that
[1:23:40 - 1:23:41] ▶
Riemannian geometry.
[1:23:41 - 1:23:42] ▶
The standard model,
[1:23:42 - 1:23:43] ▶
the differential geometry
[1:23:43 - 1:23:44] ▶
that goes underneath that,
[1:23:44 - 1:23:46] ▶
we'll call
[1:23:46 - 1:23:47] ▶
Erismanian geometry.
[1:23:47 - 1:23:48] ▶
and what modern geometric
[1:23:48 - 1:23:50] ▶
field theory,
[1:23:50 - 1:23:52] ▶
you know,
[1:23:53 - 1:23:53] ▶
TQFTs,
[1:23:53 - 1:23:54] ▶
conformal field theories
[1:23:54 - 1:23:55] ▶
on up.
[1:23:55 - 1:23:56] ▶
Shouldn't we be able
[1:23:58 - 1:23:59] ▶
to figure out
[1:23:59 - 1:24:00] ▶
if there is a program
[1:24:00 - 1:24:01] ▶
that's actually
[1:24:01 - 1:24:02] ▶
working on this,
[1:24:02 - 1:24:03] ▶
where it's located
[1:24:03 - 1:24:05] ▶
by virtue of the fact
[1:24:05 - 1:24:06] ▶
that there's almost
[1:24:06 - 1:24:07] ▶
nobody in this game
[1:24:07 - 1:24:08] ▶
and we can track
[1:24:08 - 1:24:09] ▶
their physical movements?
[1:24:09 - 1:24:10] ▶
In other words,
[1:24:10 - 1:24:11] ▶
we would have figured out
[1:24:11 - 1:24:12] ▶
that there was
[1:24:12 - 1:24:12] ▶
an awful lot
[1:24:12 - 1:24:13] ▶
of physics firepower
[1:24:13 - 1:24:14] ▶
at a boys' school
[1:24:14 - 1:24:15] ▶
in New Mexico.
[1:24:15 - 1:24:16] ▶
That's very interesting.
[1:24:17 - 1:24:18] ▶
So like a little
[1:24:19 - 1:24:20] ▶
detective search.
[1:24:20 - 1:24:22] ▶
I mean,
[1:24:23 - 1:24:23] ▶
my point is
[1:24:23 - 1:24:24] ▶
that this is
[1:24:24 - 1:24:25] ▶
the bottleneck.
[1:24:25 - 1:24:26] ▶
And in the current
[1:24:26 - 1:24:28] ▶
vogue of saying,
[1:24:28 - 1:24:29] ▶
you know,
[1:24:29 - 1:24:30] ▶
the lone genius theory
[1:24:30 - 1:24:31] ▶
is wrong,
[1:24:31 - 1:24:32] ▶
then that wouldn't work.
[1:24:32 - 1:24:35] ▶
But the lone genius theory
[1:24:35 - 1:24:36] ▶
is clearly right.
[1:24:36 - 1:24:37] ▶
I mean,
[1:24:38 - 1:24:38] ▶
it's just obviously right.
[1:24:38 - 1:24:39] ▶
It's a psyop
[1:24:39 - 1:24:40] ▶
to say it isn't.
[1:24:40 - 1:24:41] ▶
So my claim is,
[1:24:42 - 1:24:43] ▶
I know a great deal
[1:24:43 - 1:24:45] ▶
of those people,
[1:24:45 - 1:24:46] ▶
like personally.
[1:24:46 - 1:24:47] ▶
Okay.
[1:24:47 - 1:24:48] ▶
I see no indication
[1:24:49 - 1:24:50] ▶
that they know
[1:24:50 - 1:24:52] ▶
about any such program.
[1:24:52 - 1:24:53] ▶
And the only exception
[1:24:54 - 1:24:55] ▶
I can find
[1:24:55 - 1:24:56] ▶
is that there's
[1:24:56 - 1:24:58] ▶
one black hole
[1:24:58 - 1:24:59] ▶
that you go into
[1:24:59 - 1:25:00] ▶
and you don't come out of
[1:25:00 - 1:25:01] ▶
called Renaissance Technologies
[1:25:01 - 1:25:02] ▶
that hires
[1:25:02 - 1:25:03] ▶
in these exact specialties.
[1:25:03 - 1:25:05] ▶
It's got a level
[1:25:07 - 1:25:08] ▶
of profitability
[1:25:08 - 1:25:10] ▶
that doesn't really make sense
[1:25:10 - 1:25:11] ▶
based on what I know
[1:25:11 - 1:25:12] ▶
about markets.
[1:25:12 - 1:25:13] ▶
And it's got
[1:25:14 - 1:25:16] ▶
a secure campus.
[1:25:16 - 1:25:17] ▶
It's right next
[1:25:17 - 1:25:18] ▶
to Brookhaven National Laboratory.
[1:25:18 - 1:25:19] ▶
And it has the resources
[1:25:20 - 1:25:21] ▶
of SUNY Stony Brook.
[1:25:21 - 1:25:23] ▶
And SUNY Stony Brook
[1:25:23 - 1:25:24] ▶
has a math
[1:25:24 - 1:25:27] ▶
and a physics presence
[1:25:27 - 1:25:28] ▶
that is far above
[1:25:28 - 1:25:30] ▶
its rating
[1:25:30 - 1:25:30] ▶
as a State University
[1:25:30 - 1:25:33] ▶
of New York campus,
[1:25:33 - 1:25:34] ▶
even as a flagship.
[1:25:34 - 1:25:36] ▶
I wasn't aware of that.
[1:25:36 - 1:25:37] ▶
That's in Long Island,
[1:25:37 - 1:25:40] ▶
correct?
[1:25:40 - 1:25:41] ▶
Correct.
[1:25:41 - 1:25:41] ▶
I mean,
[1:25:42 - 1:25:42] ▶
I think most people
[1:25:42 - 1:25:43] ▶
didn't realize
[1:25:43 - 1:25:44] ▶
that Sien Yang
[1:25:44 - 1:25:46] ▶
was the world's greatest
[1:25:46 - 1:25:49] ▶
living theoretical physicist
[1:25:49 - 1:25:50] ▶
until very recently.
[1:25:50 - 1:25:52] ▶
I mean,
[1:25:52 - 1:25:52] ▶
he was like 104.
[1:25:52 - 1:25:53] ▶
But that's where he was.
[1:25:54 - 1:25:55] ▶
He was at the State University
[1:25:55 - 1:25:56] ▶
of New York
[1:25:56 - 1:25:56] ▶
at Stony Brook.
[1:25:56 - 1:25:57] ▶
I didn't know that.
[1:25:57 - 1:25:58] ▶
Wow.
[1:25:58 - 1:25:58] ▶
So my question is,
[1:25:58 - 1:26:03] ▶
can we figure out
[1:26:04 - 1:26:05] ▶
whether or not
[1:26:05 - 1:26:05] ▶
there's a grown-up effort?
[1:26:05 - 1:26:07] ▶
Because I don't think
[1:26:07 - 1:26:08] ▶
it's really easily possible
[1:26:08 - 1:26:10] ▶
to reverse engineer
[1:26:10 - 1:26:11] ▶
these things
[1:26:11 - 1:26:12] ▶
when your science
[1:26:12 - 1:26:13] ▶
is lagging.
[1:26:13 - 1:26:14] ▶
Like,
[1:26:16 - 1:26:17] ▶
GR is the problem.
[1:26:17 - 1:26:18] ▶
The standard model
[1:26:18 - 1:26:19] ▶
is the problem.
[1:26:19 - 1:26:20] ▶
Oh, I agree with that.
[1:26:20 - 1:26:20] ▶
Absolutely.
[1:26:20 - 1:26:21] ▶
And yet,
[1:26:21 - 1:26:21] ▶
your papers...
[1:26:22 - 1:26:22] ▶
Well, my papers
[1:26:23 - 1:26:23] ▶
are separate from that.
[1:26:23 - 1:26:25] ▶
That's the whole point.
[1:26:25 - 1:26:26] ▶
It has nothing to do
[1:26:26 - 1:26:27] ▶
with UFOs.
[1:26:27 - 1:26:28] ▶
It has to do with
[1:26:28 - 1:26:28] ▶
Mark Kroos'
[1:26:28 - 1:26:29] ▶
propulsion physics program.
[1:26:29 - 1:26:30] ▶
I'm just contributing
[1:26:31 - 1:26:31] ▶
my knowledge...
[1:26:31 - 1:26:33] ▶
But those designs
[1:26:33 - 1:26:34] ▶
aren't going to work.
[1:26:34 - 1:26:34] ▶
Well,
[1:26:36 - 1:26:36] ▶
I didn't know that then,
[1:26:36 - 1:26:38] ▶
but I'm at a point
[1:26:38 - 1:26:39] ▶
where I know
[1:26:39 - 1:26:40] ▶
that it's difficult...
[1:26:40 - 1:26:42] ▶
Well,
[1:26:42 - 1:26:42] ▶
it's going to be
[1:26:42 - 1:26:43] ▶
beyond difficult
[1:26:43 - 1:26:43] ▶
to engineer warp drives
[1:26:43 - 1:26:45] ▶
and wormholes
[1:26:45 - 1:26:45] ▶
regardless of the...
[1:26:45 - 1:26:46] ▶
I'm very glad
[1:26:46 - 1:26:47] ▶
we're having this.
[1:26:47 - 1:26:47] ▶
I took one look
[1:26:48 - 1:26:50] ▶
at this stuff
[1:26:50 - 1:26:50] ▶
and I just said,
[1:26:50 - 1:26:51] ▶
why is he wasting his time?
[1:26:51 - 1:26:53] ▶
You know?
[1:26:53 - 1:26:54] ▶
It's...
[1:26:54 - 1:26:55] ▶
It's interest me.
[1:26:55 - 1:26:56] ▶
It's what I love.
[1:26:56 - 1:26:57] ▶
And I haven't been able
[1:26:58 - 1:26:59] ▶
to figure out
[1:26:59 - 1:26:59] ▶
any way to jump off
[1:26:59 - 1:27:00] ▶
that track
[1:27:00 - 1:27:01] ▶
and get on a track
[1:27:01 - 1:27:02] ▶
to an alternative version
[1:27:02 - 1:27:03] ▶
that could lead
[1:27:03 - 1:27:04] ▶
to something
[1:27:04 - 1:27:05] ▶
as revolutionary
[1:27:05 - 1:27:06] ▶
as trans-medium propulsion
[1:27:06 - 1:27:09] ▶
that UAP demonstrated.
[1:27:09 - 1:27:10] ▶
Okay.
[1:27:11 - 1:27:12] ▶
So at a bare minimum,
[1:27:13 - 1:27:14] ▶
bare minimum,
[1:27:14 - 1:27:14] ▶
we would say GR
[1:27:15 - 1:27:17] ▶
and the standard model,
[1:27:17 - 1:27:18] ▶
but I already know
[1:27:18 - 1:27:19] ▶
that even at the bare minimum,
[1:27:19 - 1:27:20] ▶
that's probably
[1:27:21 - 1:27:21] ▶
not even touching the truth.
[1:27:21 - 1:27:23] ▶
Right.
[1:27:24 - 1:27:24] ▶
I think what's happening
[1:27:24 - 1:27:25] ▶
is I think
[1:27:25 - 1:27:26] ▶
the UAP craft
[1:27:26 - 1:27:28] ▶
are manipulating
[1:27:28 - 1:27:28] ▶
the information domain
[1:27:28 - 1:27:31] ▶
because I think
[1:27:31 - 1:27:33] ▶
that there's
[1:27:33 - 1:27:34] ▶
a subquantum domain
[1:27:34 - 1:27:35] ▶
of information.
[1:27:35 - 1:27:36] ▶
People talk about Shannon,
[1:27:37 - 1:27:38] ▶
I'm talking about
[1:27:38 - 1:27:39] ▶
Fisher information
[1:27:39 - 1:27:39] ▶
that Roy Frieden
[1:27:39 - 1:27:40] ▶
at the University of Arizona
[1:27:40 - 1:27:41] ▶
did a lot of research
[1:27:41 - 1:27:43] ▶
for 25 years on,
[1:27:43 - 1:27:45] ▶
published two books
[1:27:45 - 1:27:46] ▶
through Cambridge University Press
[1:27:46 - 1:27:47] ▶
on Fisher information,
[1:27:47 - 1:27:48] ▶
was able to use that
[1:27:49 - 1:27:50] ▶
to derive
[1:27:50 - 1:27:51] ▶
all of the major theories
[1:27:51 - 1:27:52] ▶
and principles of physics,
[1:27:52 - 1:27:53] ▶
including the Wheeler-DeWitt equation,
[1:27:54 - 1:27:56] ▶
from that being observed
[1:27:57 - 1:27:59] ▶
and the observer.
[1:27:59 - 1:28:00] ▶
So it's all based
[1:28:00 - 1:28:01] ▶
on the observer,
[1:28:01 - 1:28:01] ▶
which is quite a quantum statement.
[1:28:01 - 1:28:04] ▶
So I'd have to dig it up
[1:28:05 - 1:28:07] ▶
out of my phone
[1:28:07 - 1:28:07] ▶
to be able to read to you
[1:28:07 - 1:28:09] ▶
the two key out terms
[1:28:09 - 1:28:11] ▶
of Fisher information
[1:28:11 - 1:28:12] ▶
from which physics derives.
[1:28:12 - 1:28:14] ▶
New Scientist did an article on it,
[1:28:15 - 1:28:17] ▶
which was just brilliant.
[1:28:17 - 1:28:18] ▶
It was in the late 60s,
[1:28:18 - 1:28:21] ▶
but late 90s, sorry.
[1:28:21 - 1:28:22] ▶
So look,
[1:28:23 - 1:28:24] ▶
right now there's a vogue.
[1:28:24 - 1:28:25] ▶
If physics doesn't work,
[1:28:26 - 1:28:27] ▶
we can talk about
[1:28:27 - 1:28:28] ▶
quantum information
[1:28:28 - 1:28:29] ▶
and information theory
[1:28:29 - 1:28:30] ▶
because computers have money.
[1:28:30 - 1:28:32] ▶
And so it's a way for us
[1:28:32 - 1:28:33] ▶
to try to get money
[1:28:33 - 1:28:34] ▶
from people who know computers
[1:28:34 - 1:28:35] ▶
by making physics.
[1:28:35 - 1:28:37] ▶
Like information
[1:28:37 - 1:28:39] ▶
is the basic layer
[1:28:39 - 1:28:40] ▶
of the world.
[1:28:40 - 1:28:40] ▶
So I've watched that
[1:28:41 - 1:28:42] ▶
push for a change
[1:28:42 - 1:28:43] ▶
of variables,
[1:28:43 - 1:28:44] ▶
just like let's make black holes
[1:28:44 - 1:28:45] ▶
the new harmonic oscillator,
[1:28:45 - 1:28:47] ▶
the test object
[1:28:47 - 1:28:48] ▶
that we push everything onto.
[1:28:48 - 1:28:49] ▶
I really don't find
[1:28:51 - 1:28:52] ▶
that highly compelling.
[1:28:52 - 1:28:53] ▶
Like we basically have quarks,
[1:28:53 - 1:28:55] ▶
leptons, force particles, Higgs.
[1:28:56 - 1:28:59] ▶
We have this arena
[1:28:59 - 1:29:00] ▶
called space time.
[1:29:00 - 1:29:01] ▶
It's all a model.
[1:29:02 - 1:29:03] ▶
The model is extremely good,
[1:29:04 - 1:29:06] ▶
but we don't live there.
[1:29:06 - 1:29:07] ▶
We don't live in space time.
[1:29:07 - 1:29:08] ▶
Phil, I know that.
[1:29:09 - 1:29:10] ▶
Okay.
[1:29:10 - 1:29:10] ▶
It's not lines, curves,
[1:29:10 - 1:29:11] ▶
points, and manifolds.
[1:29:12 - 1:29:13] ▶
It's a physical space.
[1:29:13 - 1:29:14] ▶
It may be a manifold.
[1:29:14 - 1:29:16] ▶
I'm not saying that it isn't.
[1:29:16 - 1:29:18] ▶
I'm saying that you know
[1:29:18 - 1:29:21] ▶
because of the defects
[1:29:21 - 1:29:22] ▶
in these theories
[1:29:22 - 1:29:23] ▶
that you're looking
[1:29:23 - 1:29:26] ▶
at an effective theory
[1:29:26 - 1:29:27] ▶
and you're trying to figure out
[1:29:27 - 1:29:28] ▶
what the parent theory is.
[1:29:28 - 1:29:30] ▶
Do you have any guesses about that?
[1:29:30 - 1:29:32] ▶
That goes back
[1:29:33 - 1:29:34] ▶
to some ruminations
[1:29:34 - 1:29:36] ▶
I've had based on
[1:29:36 - 1:29:36] ▶
quantum entanglement networks.
[1:29:36 - 1:29:40] ▶
People in Quantum Magazine
[1:29:40 - 1:29:42] ▶
had talked about
[1:29:42 - 1:29:42] ▶
the work they were doing
[1:29:42 - 1:29:44] ▶
on quantum entanglements
[1:29:44 - 1:29:45] ▶
and tensor networks
[1:29:45 - 1:29:46] ▶
where they were able
[1:29:46 - 1:29:47] ▶
to show in a model
[1:29:47 - 1:29:49] ▶
how the Big Bang
[1:29:49 - 1:29:51] ▶
is actually an unfolding
[1:29:51 - 1:29:53] ▶
or an emerging
[1:29:53 - 1:29:54] ▶
of space time
[1:29:54 - 1:29:54] ▶
and elementary particles
[1:29:54 - 1:29:56] ▶
in the interaction forces
[1:29:56 - 1:29:57] ▶
from entanglement networks.
[1:29:57 - 1:29:59] ▶
And I just don't know
[1:30:00 - 1:30:01] ▶
how far that has gotten
[1:30:01 - 1:30:05] ▶
as a theoretical development,
[1:30:05 - 1:30:06] ▶
but I know
[1:30:07 - 1:30:07] ▶
that the initial stage of work
[1:30:07 - 1:30:09] ▶
that was done
[1:30:09 - 1:30:09] ▶
in the mid-2010s
[1:30:09 - 1:30:10] ▶
was pretty promising.
[1:30:10 - 1:30:11] ▶
I just haven't found
[1:30:11 - 1:30:13] ▶
any publications
[1:30:14 - 1:30:15] ▶
to show
[1:30:15 - 1:30:16] ▶
or inform me
[1:30:16 - 1:30:18] ▶
on where they've gotten with it.
[1:30:18 - 1:30:20] ▶
Let's talk about
[1:30:20 - 1:30:21] ▶
getting a craft
[1:30:21 - 1:30:22] ▶
across interstellar distances.
[1:30:22 - 1:30:25] ▶
You've got some kind of,
[1:30:27 - 1:30:30] ▶
and I want to be clear
[1:30:30 - 1:30:32] ▶
that I think propulsion
[1:30:32 - 1:30:33] ▶
may even be misleading,
[1:30:33 - 1:30:34] ▶
but there's something like,
[1:30:35 - 1:30:36] ▶
is there a method of conveyance?
[1:30:36 - 1:30:38] ▶
Let's call it conveyance.
[1:30:38 - 1:30:40] ▶
Second of all,
[1:30:42 - 1:30:43] ▶
there's an energy requirement.
[1:30:43 - 1:30:44] ▶
Of course.
[1:30:45 - 1:30:45] ▶
And what I'm looking at,
[1:30:46 - 1:30:47] ▶
I hate to interrupt you,
[1:30:47 - 1:30:48] ▶
but what I'm looking at
[1:30:48 - 1:30:49] ▶
is something that bypasses GR
[1:30:49 - 1:30:51] ▶
because GR is difficult to use.
[1:30:51 - 1:30:53] ▶
Well, let's talk about that
[1:30:53 - 1:30:55] ▶
in one second.
[1:30:55 - 1:30:55] ▶
Where we can get around
[1:30:55 - 1:30:56] ▶
that whole energy requirement
[1:30:56 - 1:30:58] ▶
that shuts down
[1:30:58 - 1:30:59] ▶
the ability to engineer
[1:30:59 - 1:31:00] ▶
and build wormholes
[1:31:00 - 1:31:01] ▶
or warp drives.
[1:31:01 - 1:31:02] ▶
We've got to come up with something
[1:31:03 - 1:31:04] ▶
that gets out of that whole GR.
[1:31:04 - 1:31:06] ▶
You're grooved towards
[1:31:06 - 1:31:08] ▶
this toolkit
[1:31:08 - 1:31:09] ▶
that's pushed in front of us, right?
[1:31:09 - 1:31:11] ▶
Like, entanglement is a real thing,
[1:31:11 - 1:31:14] ▶
but we talk about it,
[1:31:14 - 1:31:15] ▶
in my opinion,
[1:31:15 - 1:31:16] ▶
sometimes too much.
[1:31:16 - 1:31:17] ▶
I think another thing like that
[1:31:19 - 1:31:21] ▶
is black holes, wormholes.
[1:31:21 - 1:31:22] ▶
Again, real things,
[1:31:23 - 1:31:25] ▶
but at some level,
[1:31:25 - 1:31:26] ▶
we don't know whether
[1:31:26 - 1:31:27] ▶
the black hole in the sky
[1:31:27 - 1:31:28] ▶
and the black hole in the model
[1:31:28 - 1:31:29] ▶
are the same black hole.
[1:31:29 - 1:31:30] ▶
Yeah.
[1:31:31 - 1:31:31] ▶
And all of these things
[1:31:31 - 1:31:34] ▶
that we can do
[1:31:34 - 1:31:35] ▶
lead nowhere, right?
[1:31:35 - 1:31:37] ▶
We've been around the traffic circle
[1:31:37 - 1:31:38] ▶
a million times,
[1:31:38 - 1:31:39] ▶
and by the third time
[1:31:39 - 1:31:40] ▶
you've seen the same 7-Eleven,
[1:31:40 - 1:31:42] ▶
you're starting to think
[1:31:42 - 1:31:43] ▶
something's wrong.
[1:31:43 - 1:31:43] ▶
Let's talk about GR as a problem.
[1:31:46 - 1:31:48] ▶
So in the standard equation in GR,
[1:31:50 - 1:31:52] ▶
we've got really three terms.
[1:31:52 - 1:31:54] ▶
We've got the Einstein curvature term.
[1:31:54 - 1:31:56] ▶
We've got the dark energy
[1:31:57 - 1:31:58] ▶
cosmological constant term.
[1:31:58 - 1:32:00] ▶
Lambda.
[1:32:00 - 1:32:01] ▶
Lambda G.
[1:32:01 - 1:32:01] ▶
Well, Lambda times G-mute,
[1:32:02 - 1:32:03] ▶
the metric G-mute nu,
[1:32:03 - 1:32:04] ▶
and this constant times
[1:32:04 - 1:32:07] ▶
the stress-energy tensor
[1:32:07 - 1:32:08] ▶
for everything else.
[1:32:08 - 1:32:09] ▶
Right, the coupling constant, yeah.
[1:32:09 - 1:32:10] ▶
Yeah.
[1:32:10 - 1:32:10] ▶
Desi in Arizona
[1:32:13 - 1:32:14] ▶
has thrown some cold water
[1:32:14 - 1:32:17] ▶
on the idea that Lambda
[1:32:17 - 1:32:19] ▶
is a good model for dark energy
[1:32:19 - 1:32:22] ▶
because it appears
[1:32:22 - 1:32:23] ▶
that it's not constant.
[1:32:23 - 1:32:24] ▶
I've heard that.
[1:32:25 - 1:32:26] ▶
Yeah.
[1:32:26 - 1:32:26] ▶
I've seen some news
[1:32:27 - 1:32:28] ▶
about that coming out.
[1:32:28 - 1:32:29] ▶
Was it just theoretical
[1:32:30 - 1:32:31] ▶
or was there hints
[1:32:31 - 1:32:33] ▶
of it from observations?
[1:32:33 - 1:32:34] ▶
That's what I'm saying.
[1:32:34 - 1:32:35] ▶
The dark energy
[1:32:35 - 1:32:36] ▶
spectroscopic instrument,
[1:32:36 - 1:32:38] ▶
or Desi,
[1:32:38 - 1:32:38] ▶
seems to be recording.
[1:32:40 - 1:32:41] ▶
Yeah, the Desi experiment, right.
[1:32:41 - 1:32:41] ▶
It's showing that it's more,
[1:32:41 - 1:32:42] ▶
it's actually not.
[1:32:43 - 1:32:43] ▶
Variable.
[1:32:43 - 1:32:44] ▶
Yeah, it's time-dependent,
[1:32:44 - 1:32:46] ▶
so it's dynamical
[1:32:46 - 1:32:47] ▶
as opposed to static
[1:32:47 - 1:32:48] ▶
being a constant energy.
[1:32:48 - 1:32:49] ▶
Which sounds like a VEV,
[1:32:49 - 1:32:51] ▶
a vacuum expectation value,
[1:32:51 - 1:32:52] ▶
so that people always
[1:32:53 - 1:32:54] ▶
make this mistake,
[1:32:54 - 1:32:55] ▶
you know,
[1:32:55 - 1:32:56] ▶
what is the temperature
[1:32:56 - 1:32:56] ▶
of the room?
[1:32:56 - 1:32:57] ▶
And they say 71 degrees,
[1:32:57 - 1:32:59] ▶
and you say,
[1:32:59 - 1:33:00] ▶
well, in which corner?
[1:33:00 - 1:33:00] ▶
And then the person thinks,
[1:33:01 - 1:33:02] ▶
oh, well,
[1:33:02 - 1:33:02] ▶
I'm sure it varies
[1:33:02 - 1:33:03] ▶
between the floor
[1:33:03 - 1:33:05] ▶
and the ceiling
[1:33:05 - 1:33:06] ▶
and where you are
[1:33:06 - 1:33:07] ▶
close to the window.
[1:33:07 - 1:33:07] ▶
And that idea
[1:33:08 - 1:33:09] ▶
that a thing
[1:33:09 - 1:33:10] ▶
is mostly constant,
[1:33:10 - 1:33:11] ▶
but with fluctuations,
[1:33:11 - 1:33:12] ▶
is the promotion
[1:33:13 - 1:33:15] ▶
of a simple number
[1:33:15 - 1:33:16] ▶
like Lambda
[1:33:16 - 1:33:17] ▶
to field content,
[1:33:17 - 1:33:18] ▶
something that can vary.
[1:33:19 - 1:33:20] ▶
Now,
[1:33:21 - 1:33:21] ▶
there's a thing
[1:33:21 - 1:33:23] ▶
called Lovelock's theorem.
[1:33:23 - 1:33:25] ▶
Oh, I'm familiar with that.
[1:33:25 - 1:33:26] ▶
He was a mathematician
[1:33:26 - 1:33:27] ▶
at the University of Arizona.
[1:33:27 - 1:33:28] ▶
Yeah.
[1:33:29 - 1:33:29] ▶
I went to school
[1:33:29 - 1:33:30] ▶
until I knew him.
[1:33:30 - 1:33:30] ▶
So, tell me about
[1:33:31 - 1:33:32] ▶
Lovelock's theorem
[1:33:32 - 1:33:33] ▶
and variable dark energy.
[1:33:33 - 1:33:36] ▶
Oh, gosh,
[1:33:37 - 1:33:37] ▶
I can't even think
[1:33:37 - 1:33:38] ▶
of Lovelock's theorem,
[1:33:38 - 1:33:39] ▶
but I know
[1:33:39 - 1:33:39] ▶
what you're talking about.
[1:33:39 - 1:33:40] ▶
Why don't you go ahead?
[1:33:40 - 1:33:41] ▶
Well, so the way
[1:33:41 - 1:33:42] ▶
I remember it,
[1:33:42 - 1:33:43] ▶
and again,
[1:33:43 - 1:33:43] ▶
this is,
[1:33:43 - 1:33:43] ▶
I wasn't preparing
[1:33:44 - 1:33:44] ▶
to do this, but.
[1:33:44 - 1:33:45] ▶
Because keep in mind,
[1:33:45 - 1:33:46] ▶
it's been 40 years
[1:33:46 - 1:33:47] ▶
since I had
[1:33:47 - 1:33:48] ▶
tensor calculus
[1:33:48 - 1:33:49] ▶
using Lovelock's
[1:33:49 - 1:33:51] ▶
manuscript for his
[1:33:51 - 1:33:52] ▶
second book.
[1:33:52 - 1:33:53] ▶
Yeah.
[1:33:53 - 1:33:54] ▶
Yes.
[1:33:57 - 1:33:58] ▶
I think what it says is
[1:33:59 - 1:34:01] ▶
that when it comes
[1:34:01 - 1:34:04] ▶
to geometry,
[1:34:04 - 1:34:04] ▶
there are only
[1:34:05 - 1:34:06] ▶
two tensors
[1:34:06 - 1:34:07] ▶
you can make
[1:34:07 - 1:34:08] ▶
that have this property
[1:34:08 - 1:34:10] ▶
of being divergence-free
[1:34:10 - 1:34:12] ▶
that are not dependent
[1:34:12 - 1:34:14] ▶
on anything else.
[1:34:14 - 1:34:17] ▶
In other words,
[1:34:17 - 1:34:17] ▶
it's a two-dimensional space.
[1:34:17 - 1:34:19] ▶
And one of them
[1:34:19 - 1:34:20] ▶
is the Einstein
[1:34:20 - 1:34:21] ▶
curvature tensor,
[1:34:21 - 1:34:23] ▶
which is divergence-free
[1:34:23 - 1:34:24] ▶
by property
[1:34:24 - 1:34:25] ▶
of taking an automatic
[1:34:25 - 1:34:27] ▶
equation
[1:34:27 - 1:34:28] ▶
that has to be satisfied
[1:34:28 - 1:34:29] ▶
called the Bianchi identity
[1:34:29 - 1:34:30] ▶
and turning it
[1:34:30 - 1:34:32] ▶
into a different
[1:34:32 - 1:34:33] ▶
equation that says
[1:34:33 - 1:34:34] ▶
that the theory
[1:34:34 - 1:34:36] ▶
is not bothered
[1:34:36 - 1:34:38] ▶
by how you put
[1:34:38 - 1:34:39] ▶
coordinates on a system.
[1:34:39 - 1:34:40] ▶
Correct.
[1:34:40 - 1:34:41] ▶
That sounds familiar.
[1:34:41 - 1:34:42] ▶
So that's,
[1:34:43 - 1:34:43] ▶
that's the idea
[1:34:43 - 1:34:44] ▶
of the R mu nu
[1:34:44 - 1:34:46] ▶
minus one-half
[1:34:46 - 1:34:48] ▶
scalar times
[1:34:48 - 1:34:49] ▶
G mu nu,
[1:34:49 - 1:34:49] ▶
the Einstein
[1:34:50 - 1:34:50] ▶
curvature tensor
[1:34:50 - 1:34:51] ▶
is perpendicular
[1:34:51 - 1:34:51] ▶
to the space
[1:34:51 - 1:34:53] ▶
of transformations
[1:34:53 - 1:34:54] ▶
of coordinates.
[1:34:54 - 1:34:55] ▶
Yeah.
[1:34:56 - 1:34:56] ▶
It's like,
[1:34:56 - 1:34:57] ▶
what,
[1:34:57 - 1:34:57] ▶
the intrinsic curvature?
[1:34:57 - 1:34:58] ▶
It looks like
[1:34:59 - 1:34:59] ▶
intrinsic curvature, right?
[1:34:59 - 1:35:00] ▶
Well,
[1:35:00 - 1:35:01] ▶
it's the Riemann
[1:35:01 - 1:35:02] ▶
curvature
[1:35:02 - 1:35:03] ▶
with the Vial curvature
[1:35:03 - 1:35:04] ▶
thrown away
[1:35:04 - 1:35:05] ▶
and a trace reversal
[1:35:05 - 1:35:07] ▶
of this one piece
[1:35:07 - 1:35:09] ▶
of the,
[1:35:09 - 1:35:09] ▶
you've got
[1:35:09 - 1:35:10] ▶
10 components
[1:35:10 - 1:35:11] ▶
of Ricci curvature
[1:35:11 - 1:35:12] ▶
and one component
[1:35:12 - 1:35:13] ▶
can be broken out
[1:35:13 - 1:35:14] ▶
and put them,
[1:35:14 - 1:35:15] ▶
had a minus sign
[1:35:15 - 1:35:16] ▶
put in front of it.
[1:35:16 - 1:35:16] ▶
That object
[1:35:17 - 1:35:18] ▶
has an automatic
[1:35:18 - 1:35:19] ▶
differential equation.
[1:35:19 - 1:35:20] ▶
The other one
[1:35:20 - 1:35:21] ▶
that has the same
[1:35:21 - 1:35:21] ▶
automatic differential
[1:35:21 - 1:35:22] ▶
equation
[1:35:22 - 1:35:23] ▶
is lambda
[1:35:23 - 1:35:24] ▶
times the metric
[1:35:24 - 1:35:25] ▶
because if you try
[1:35:25 - 1:35:26] ▶
to differentiate
[1:35:26 - 1:35:27] ▶
the metric,
[1:35:27 - 1:35:28] ▶
that's always
[1:35:29 - 1:35:30] ▶
going to be zero
[1:35:30 - 1:35:31] ▶
by virtue of the fact
[1:35:31 - 1:35:32] ▶
that the metric
[1:35:32 - 1:35:33] ▶
is constant
[1:35:33 - 1:35:34] ▶
in its own
[1:35:34 - 1:35:35] ▶
Levy-Civita connection.
[1:35:35 - 1:35:36] ▶
But by the product rule,
[1:35:36 - 1:35:38] ▶
if you put a lambda
[1:35:38 - 1:35:39] ▶
in front of it,
[1:35:39 - 1:35:39] ▶
then
[1:35:40 - 1:35:40] ▶
the derivative
[1:35:40 - 1:35:42] ▶
of lambda
[1:35:42 - 1:35:43] ▶
is zero
[1:35:43 - 1:35:44] ▶
times the metric
[1:35:44 - 1:35:46] ▶
plus lambda
[1:35:46 - 1:35:47] ▶
times the derivative
[1:35:47 - 1:35:48] ▶
of the metric
[1:35:48 - 1:35:49] ▶
which is zero
[1:35:49 - 1:35:49] ▶
for that same reason.
[1:35:49 - 1:35:50] ▶
Those are the only
[1:35:51 - 1:35:52] ▶
two simple tensors
[1:35:52 - 1:35:54] ▶
that have this property.
[1:35:54 - 1:35:55] ▶
So if you lose
[1:35:56 - 1:35:56] ▶
Lovelock's theorem,
[1:35:56 - 1:35:58] ▶
I'm sorry,
[1:35:58 - 1:35:58] ▶
if you have Lovelock's theorem
[1:35:58 - 1:36:00] ▶
and you lose
[1:36:00 - 1:36:00] ▶
the constancy
[1:36:00 - 1:36:01] ▶
of dark energy,
[1:36:01 - 1:36:02] ▶
you're starting
[1:36:03 - 1:36:03] ▶
to actually put
[1:36:03 - 1:36:04] ▶
general relativity
[1:36:04 - 1:36:05] ▶
in some peril.
[1:36:05 - 1:36:06] ▶
That's very interesting.
[1:36:07 - 1:36:08] ▶
I hadn't thought
[1:36:08 - 1:36:09] ▶
about that.
[1:36:09 - 1:36:10] ▶
Okay.
[1:36:10 - 1:36:10] ▶
Depends how you
[1:36:11 - 1:36:12] ▶
conceive of general relativity.
[1:36:12 - 1:36:13] ▶
But to continue
[1:36:14 - 1:36:14] ▶
with this,
[1:36:14 - 1:36:15] ▶
I don't believe
[1:36:16 - 1:36:21] ▶
that you can
[1:36:21 - 1:36:24] ▶
engineer these craft
[1:36:24 - 1:36:26] ▶
within general relativity
[1:36:26 - 1:36:29] ▶
or standard model
[1:36:29 - 1:36:30] ▶
in any way
[1:36:30 - 1:36:31] ▶
other than formally.
[1:36:31 - 1:36:32] ▶
So the Alcubierre warp drive
[1:36:32 - 1:36:35] ▶
is a formal solution
[1:36:35 - 1:36:36] ▶
to the problem
[1:36:36 - 1:36:38] ▶
because it leaves
[1:36:38 - 1:36:39] ▶
unaddressed
[1:36:39 - 1:36:40] ▶
how the weakest
[1:36:40 - 1:36:41] ▶
possible of all forces
[1:36:41 - 1:36:42] ▶
gravity
[1:36:42 - 1:36:43] ▶
could be employed
[1:36:43 - 1:36:45] ▶
at this completely
[1:36:45 - 1:36:46] ▶
different level
[1:36:46 - 1:36:47] ▶
to, you know,
[1:36:47 - 1:36:49] ▶
sandwich space time
[1:36:49 - 1:36:50] ▶
on top of itself.
[1:36:50 - 1:36:51] ▶
I don't think
[1:36:53 - 1:36:54] ▶
the generation ships
[1:36:54 - 1:36:55] ▶
make any sense
[1:36:55 - 1:36:56] ▶
at 800 years.
[1:36:56 - 1:36:58] ▶
Oh, I agree with you.
[1:36:58 - 1:36:59] ▶
Okay.
[1:36:59 - 1:36:59] ▶
I don't believe
[1:37:00 - 1:37:02] ▶
that the time dilation
[1:37:02 - 1:37:05] ▶
makes any sense.
[1:37:05 - 1:37:06] ▶
It's too expensive
[1:37:06 - 1:37:06] ▶
because everybody's dead
[1:37:06 - 1:37:08] ▶
when you get back.
[1:37:08 - 1:37:08] ▶
It's the planet
[1:37:09 - 1:37:10] ▶
of the apes scenario.
[1:37:10 - 1:37:11] ▶
Yeah, I don't.
[1:37:11 - 1:37:12] ▶
Exactly.
[1:37:12 - 1:37:12] ▶
I don't believe
[1:37:13 - 1:37:14] ▶
in traversable
[1:37:14 - 1:37:16] ▶
black holes.
[1:37:16 - 1:37:17] ▶
Wormholes
[1:37:18 - 1:37:18] ▶
and black holes
[1:37:18 - 1:37:19] ▶
and all this kind of stuff.
[1:37:19 - 1:37:20] ▶
Well, black holes
[1:37:20 - 1:37:20] ▶
aren't traversable,
[1:37:20 - 1:37:21] ▶
but there are
[1:37:21 - 1:37:22] ▶
wormholes
[1:37:22 - 1:37:22] ▶
with no singularities
[1:37:22 - 1:37:23] ▶
and event horizons
[1:37:23 - 1:37:24] ▶
that are traversable.
[1:37:24 - 1:37:25] ▶
Okay.
[1:37:25 - 1:37:25] ▶
In principle.
[1:37:25 - 1:37:26] ▶
Yes, but I've also
[1:37:26 - 1:37:27] ▶
heard weirder stuff
[1:37:27 - 1:37:28] ▶
involving somebody
[1:37:28 - 1:37:30] ▶
trying to use
[1:37:30 - 1:37:32] ▶
the black hole
[1:37:32 - 1:37:33] ▶
information paradox
[1:37:33 - 1:37:34] ▶
to get...
[1:37:34 - 1:37:34] ▶
Oh, I think that's just
[1:37:34 - 1:37:36] ▶
people have stretched
[1:37:36 - 1:37:38] ▶
an analogy too far.
[1:37:38 - 1:37:39] ▶
Okay.
[1:37:40 - 1:37:40] ▶
My claim is
[1:37:40 - 1:37:41] ▶
there's a huge suite
[1:37:41 - 1:37:43] ▶
of not really
[1:37:43 - 1:37:44] ▶
that inventive ideas.
[1:37:44 - 1:37:46] ▶
In other words,
[1:37:47 - 1:37:48] ▶
we're going to accept
[1:37:48 - 1:37:49] ▶
the science that we have
[1:37:49 - 1:37:50] ▶
as if we can't
[1:37:50 - 1:37:52] ▶
do better science,
[1:37:52 - 1:37:53] ▶
and then we're going
[1:37:53 - 1:37:54] ▶
to come up
[1:37:54 - 1:37:54] ▶
with completely
[1:37:54 - 1:37:55] ▶
implausible ways
[1:37:55 - 1:37:56] ▶
of using it,
[1:37:56 - 1:37:57] ▶
and we're going to say
[1:37:57 - 1:37:58] ▶
those are the leading
[1:37:58 - 1:37:59] ▶
candidates.
[1:37:59 - 1:37:59] ▶
Dr. Davis,
[1:38:00 - 1:38:01] ▶
you should push back
[1:38:01 - 1:38:02] ▶
if you think
[1:38:02 - 1:38:02] ▶
traversable wormholes
[1:38:02 - 1:38:04] ▶
that biological material
[1:38:04 - 1:38:05] ▶
can go through
[1:38:05 - 1:38:07] ▶
is a real feasible thing.
[1:38:07 - 1:38:09] ▶
You mean biological
[1:38:10 - 1:38:11] ▶
materials going through
[1:38:11 - 1:38:12] ▶
a wormhole?
[1:38:12 - 1:38:12] ▶
Yeah.
[1:38:12 - 1:38:12] ▶
I don't see anything
[1:38:12 - 1:38:14] ▶
that prevents it.
[1:38:14 - 1:38:15] ▶
Okay.
[1:38:15 - 1:38:15] ▶
So you're going to
[1:38:16 - 1:38:17] ▶
create a wormhole
[1:38:17 - 1:38:18] ▶
on demand
[1:38:18 - 1:38:19] ▶
to get where
[1:38:19 - 1:38:20] ▶
you need to go?
[1:38:20 - 1:38:21] ▶
You should be able to.
[1:38:23 - 1:38:24] ▶
That's what my research
[1:38:25 - 1:38:26] ▶
showed.
[1:38:26 - 1:38:27] ▶
There's nothing
[1:38:27 - 1:38:28] ▶
that I would think
[1:38:28 - 1:38:29] ▶
that could stop you
[1:38:29 - 1:38:30] ▶
other than that
[1:38:30 - 1:38:31] ▶
G over C to the fourth
[1:38:31 - 1:38:32] ▶
power issue.
[1:38:32 - 1:38:34] ▶
That really gets inverted
[1:38:35 - 1:38:36] ▶
when you put it over
[1:38:36 - 1:38:39] ▶
to the curvature
[1:38:39 - 1:38:39] ▶
side of the equation.
[1:38:39 - 1:38:40] ▶
All right.
[1:38:41 - 1:38:41] ▶
Then the properties
[1:38:41 - 1:38:42] ▶
of the matter,
[1:38:42 - 1:38:42] ▶
it's going to be
[1:38:42 - 1:38:43] ▶
C to the fourth
[1:38:43 - 1:38:43] ▶
over G,
[1:38:43 - 1:38:44] ▶
so it's going to be
[1:38:44 - 1:38:45] ▶
a gigantic number
[1:38:45 - 1:38:46] ▶
multiplying the curvature
[1:38:46 - 1:38:47] ▶
of space-time
[1:38:47 - 1:38:48] ▶
that that matter
[1:38:48 - 1:38:49] ▶
source creates.
[1:38:49 - 1:38:51] ▶
So walk me through,
[1:38:51 - 1:38:52] ▶
how do I get to
[1:38:52 - 1:38:53] ▶
Alpha Centauri
[1:38:53 - 1:38:54] ▶
by engineering
[1:38:54 - 1:38:56] ▶
a traversable wormhole?
[1:38:56 - 1:38:58] ▶
Well, you're going
[1:38:58 - 1:38:58] ▶
to create the mouth
[1:38:58 - 1:39:00] ▶
or the throat.
[1:39:00 - 1:39:01] ▶
Well, that's a good point
[1:39:01 - 1:39:03] ▶
because even Kip Thorne
[1:39:03 - 1:39:04] ▶
couldn't describe it,
[1:39:04 - 1:39:05] ▶
but the best idea is,
[1:39:05 - 1:39:07] ▶
and this is Thorne's,
[1:39:08 - 1:39:09] ▶
I do not mind,
[1:39:09 - 1:39:09] ▶
and I don't endorse it.
[1:39:09 - 1:39:10] ▶
You create a mouth
[1:39:11 - 1:39:12] ▶
right at your departure
[1:39:12 - 1:39:14] ▶
point in space,
[1:39:14 - 1:39:15] ▶
and you're going
[1:39:15 - 1:39:17] ▶
to need another spaceship
[1:39:17 - 1:39:18] ▶
to carry the throat
[1:39:18 - 1:39:19] ▶
to the destination point,
[1:39:19 - 1:39:21] ▶
and that's what
[1:39:21 - 1:39:24] ▶
Kip Thorne came up with.
[1:39:24 - 1:39:26] ▶
I'm thinking
[1:39:26 - 1:39:27] ▶
when you're creating
[1:39:27 - 1:39:28] ▶
the throat,
[1:39:28 - 1:39:28] ▶
that's where all
[1:39:28 - 1:39:29] ▶
the physics occurs anyway.
[1:39:29 - 1:39:30] ▶
It's not at the mouth,
[1:39:30 - 1:39:31] ▶
the exit,
[1:39:31 - 1:39:32] ▶
entrance mouth.
[1:39:32 - 1:39:33] ▶
It's in the throat.
[1:39:33 - 1:39:33] ▶
So when you're creating
[1:39:34 - 1:39:35] ▶
that throat,
[1:39:35 - 1:39:35] ▶
that should automatically
[1:39:36 - 1:39:39] ▶
do the connection,
[1:39:39 - 1:39:42] ▶
the hyperspace tunnel
[1:39:42 - 1:39:43] ▶
connection between
[1:39:43 - 1:39:44] ▶
two points,
[1:39:44 - 1:39:45] ▶
two distant points,
[1:39:46 - 1:39:46] ▶
Earth and Sirius,
[1:39:47 - 1:39:48] ▶
or our star,
[1:39:49 - 1:39:50] ▶
soul, and Sirius
[1:39:50 - 1:39:51] ▶
as examples,
[1:39:51 - 1:39:52] ▶
or Earth and Alpha Centauri,
[1:39:52 - 1:39:53] ▶
one of the planets
[1:39:53 - 1:39:54] ▶
over there.
[1:39:54 - 1:39:54] ▶
I just know
[1:39:55 - 1:39:57] ▶
that it does not
[1:39:57 - 1:39:58] ▶
give you a recipe
[1:39:58 - 1:39:59] ▶
for navigating,
[1:39:59 - 1:40:00] ▶
for being able
[1:40:00 - 1:40:01] ▶
to target your destination.
[1:40:01 - 1:40:03] ▶
There are no
[1:40:03 - 1:40:04] ▶
navigational control laws
[1:40:04 - 1:40:06] ▶
built into general relativity.
[1:40:06 - 1:40:07] ▶
All you could do
[1:40:08 - 1:40:08] ▶
is build the wormhole,
[1:40:08 - 1:40:09] ▶
and you know
[1:40:10 - 1:40:10] ▶
you could do the studies
[1:40:10 - 1:40:11] ▶
of a geodesic
[1:40:11 - 1:40:13] ▶
that goes through it,
[1:40:13 - 1:40:13] ▶
representing either
[1:40:13 - 1:40:15] ▶
a photon
[1:40:15 - 1:40:15] ▶
or a piece of matter,
[1:40:15 - 1:40:16] ▶
and you can represent
[1:40:17 - 1:40:18] ▶
that, you know
[1:40:18 - 1:40:18] ▶
it's going to come out
[1:40:18 - 1:40:19] ▶
the other side.
[1:40:19 - 1:40:20] ▶
But how you aim it
[1:40:20 - 1:40:21] ▶
and navigate
[1:40:21 - 1:40:22] ▶
to another star
[1:40:22 - 1:40:22] ▶
using it,
[1:40:22 - 1:40:23] ▶
that's not in general relativity.
[1:40:23 - 1:40:24] ▶
You can't pull that out.
[1:40:24 - 1:40:25] ▶
You can't pull that information out
[1:40:25 - 1:40:27] ▶
unless there's more work
[1:40:27 - 1:40:29] ▶
that needs to be done
[1:40:29 - 1:40:30] ▶
that nobody
[1:40:30 - 1:40:31] ▶
has thought of doing.
[1:40:31 - 1:40:32] ▶
So, again...
[1:40:33 - 1:40:35] ▶
But I think you can make
[1:40:35 - 1:40:36] ▶
a wormhole on demand
[1:40:36 - 1:40:37] ▶
if assuming you have
[1:40:37 - 1:40:39] ▶
the negative energy density
[1:40:39 - 1:40:42] ▶
available to shape it.
[1:40:42 - 1:40:43] ▶
Not one of these proposals
[1:40:46 - 1:40:48] ▶
excites me.
[1:40:48 - 1:40:48] ▶
They're boring as sin.
[1:40:50 - 1:40:51] ▶
I'm sorry to say it.
[1:40:52 - 1:40:53] ▶
You're talking about
[1:40:53 - 1:40:55] ▶
people raised on sci-fi
[1:40:55 - 1:40:57] ▶
who want to be scientific.
[1:40:57 - 1:40:59] ▶
And by wanting
[1:40:59 - 1:41:01] ▶
to be scientific,
[1:41:01 - 1:41:01] ▶
they don't want to go beyond
[1:41:01 - 1:41:02] ▶
the two frontier theories
[1:41:02 - 1:41:05] ▶
that we have.
[1:41:05 - 1:41:05] ▶
And they've also said,
[1:41:06 - 1:41:07] ▶
I don't want to be uncreative.
[1:41:08 - 1:41:09] ▶
So the idea is,
[1:41:09 - 1:41:10] ▶
how do we come up
[1:41:10 - 1:41:11] ▶
with a wildly
[1:41:11 - 1:41:12] ▶
implausible story
[1:41:12 - 1:41:13] ▶
based on stuff
[1:41:13 - 1:41:14] ▶
that is solid?
[1:41:14 - 1:41:15] ▶
And...
[1:41:15 - 1:41:16] ▶
At least with some
[1:41:16 - 1:41:20] ▶
of the other crazy stuff,
[1:41:20 - 1:41:21] ▶
I have a feeling
[1:41:22 - 1:41:22] ▶
at least they're trying
[1:41:22 - 1:41:23] ▶
to do new physics
[1:41:23 - 1:41:24] ▶
so that the implausibility
[1:41:24 - 1:41:26] ▶
goes down,
[1:41:26 - 1:41:27] ▶
but the speculative nature
[1:41:27 - 1:41:29] ▶
of the physics goes up.
[1:41:29 - 1:41:30] ▶
I think it would be much better
[1:41:30 - 1:41:31] ▶
to balance those two.
[1:41:31 - 1:41:32] ▶
Can we talk about
[1:41:32 - 1:41:33] ▶
one of these weird things?
[1:41:33 - 1:41:34] ▶
Have you looked at
[1:41:35 - 1:41:35] ▶
this extended electrodynamics
[1:41:35 - 1:41:37] ▶
that no one in my world
[1:41:37 - 1:41:39] ▶
has ever heard of?
[1:41:39 - 1:41:39] ▶
I've seen elements of it.
[1:41:41 - 1:41:42] ▶
I've seen a paper
[1:41:42 - 1:41:44] ▶
here and there
[1:41:44 - 1:41:44] ▶
on extended electrodynamics.
[1:41:44 - 1:41:46] ▶
What do you see
[1:41:46 - 1:41:47] ▶
that as being?
[1:41:47 - 1:41:48] ▶
I don't know
[1:41:49 - 1:41:50] ▶
what they're trying
[1:41:50 - 1:41:51] ▶
to get at with it.
[1:41:51 - 1:41:52] ▶
That's my conclusion.
[1:41:52 - 1:41:53] ▶
I don't know
[1:41:54 - 1:41:54] ▶
what they're trying
[1:41:54 - 1:41:55] ▶
to extend,
[1:41:55 - 1:41:55] ▶
where it's going.
[1:41:55 - 1:41:56] ▶
A little context
[1:41:56 - 1:41:57] ▶
for the audience.
[1:41:57 - 1:41:58] ▶
This is a term
[1:41:58 - 1:42:00] ▶
that gets thrown around
[1:42:00 - 1:42:01] ▶
constantly in UFO discussions.
[1:42:01 - 1:42:03] ▶
You have,
[1:42:03 - 1:42:04] ▶
even going back
[1:42:04 - 1:42:05] ▶
to the 90s,
[1:42:05 - 1:42:06] ▶
Ben Rich saying,
[1:42:06 - 1:42:06] ▶
there was some math
[1:42:07 - 1:42:08] ▶
in Maxwell's equations
[1:42:08 - 1:42:09] ▶
that was a little off.
[1:42:09 - 1:42:10] ▶
You know,
[1:42:10 - 1:42:11] ▶
that sort of thing
[1:42:11 - 1:42:11] ▶
is this recurring
[1:42:11 - 1:42:12] ▶
sort of theme.
[1:42:12 - 1:42:13] ▶
And then you have
[1:42:13 - 1:42:15] ▶
people now saying
[1:42:15 - 1:42:16] ▶
that it's a more faithful
[1:42:16 - 1:42:18] ▶
adherence to the,
[1:42:18 - 1:42:20] ▶
you know,
[1:42:20 - 1:42:20] ▶
more expanded
[1:42:21 - 1:42:22] ▶
Maxwell equations
[1:42:22 - 1:42:23] ▶
versus the heavy side
[1:42:23 - 1:42:24] ▶
kind of simplification
[1:42:24 - 1:42:25] ▶
of vector calculus
[1:42:25 - 1:42:26] ▶
that is extended
[1:42:26 - 1:42:28] ▶
electrodynamics.
[1:42:28 - 1:42:29] ▶
Other people say
[1:42:29 - 1:42:29] ▶
heavy side
[1:42:29 - 1:42:30] ▶
is the update
[1:42:30 - 1:42:31] ▶
that makes the
[1:42:31 - 1:42:32] ▶
extended electrodynamics.
[1:42:32 - 1:42:33] ▶
no one seems to come up
[1:42:33 - 1:42:35] ▶
with some sort of Lagrangian.
[1:42:35 - 1:42:37] ▶
You've pointed out
[1:42:37 - 1:42:38] ▶
some real inconsistencies
[1:42:38 - 1:42:39] ▶
with the,
[1:42:39 - 1:42:41] ▶
you know,
[1:42:41 - 1:42:41] ▶
gauge invariance.
[1:42:41 - 1:42:42] ▶
And,
[1:42:43 - 1:42:43] ▶
but I believe Hal Puthoff,
[1:42:43 - 1:42:44] ▶
who you have a long
[1:42:44 - 1:42:45] ▶
work history with
[1:42:45 - 1:42:46] ▶
and, you know,
[1:42:46 - 1:42:46] ▶
is your long colleague,
[1:42:46 - 1:42:47] ▶
he has some interesting work
[1:42:48 - 1:42:49] ▶
in extended electrodynamics,
[1:42:49 - 1:42:50] ▶
right?
[1:42:50 - 1:42:50] ▶
Oh, I never worked on it.
[1:42:50 - 1:42:51] ▶
Oh, okay.
[1:42:51 - 1:42:52] ▶
I don't know
[1:42:52 - 1:42:52] ▶
what that Hal has.
[1:42:52 - 1:42:53] ▶
The only extended
[1:42:53 - 1:42:54] ▶
electrodynamics I know of
[1:42:54 - 1:42:55] ▶
is the Lagrangian
[1:42:55 - 1:42:57] ▶
that you're going to have
[1:42:57 - 1:42:58] ▶
for high energy
[1:42:58 - 1:42:58] ▶
electromagnetic systems.
[1:42:58 - 1:43:00] ▶
And that would be
[1:43:00 - 1:43:00] ▶
the Born-Enfeld-Lagrangian,
[1:43:00 - 1:43:03] ▶
I believe it is.
[1:43:03 - 1:43:03] ▶
Okay.
[1:43:04 - 1:43:04] ▶
Well,
[1:43:04 - 1:43:05] ▶
you're going back
[1:43:05 - 1:43:06] ▶
to Yang-Mill's theory
[1:43:06 - 1:43:08] ▶
in the Abelian case.
[1:43:08 - 1:43:08] ▶
It's just the nonlinear
[1:43:09 - 1:43:09] ▶
version of Maxwell's equations
[1:43:09 - 1:43:11] ▶
that you're going to get
[1:43:11 - 1:43:12] ▶
out of a Lagrangian
[1:43:12 - 1:43:13] ▶
that you can formulate.
[1:43:13 - 1:43:14] ▶
And it will reduce
[1:43:14 - 1:43:15] ▶
to Maxwell's equations
[1:43:15 - 1:43:16] ▶
in the low energy regime.
[1:43:16 - 1:43:17] ▶
So,
[1:43:18 - 1:43:18] ▶
extended,
[1:43:18 - 1:43:18] ▶
I don't know
[1:43:19 - 1:43:19] ▶
what they're extending.
[1:43:19 - 1:43:19] ▶
That's the thing.
[1:43:20 - 1:43:20] ▶
I've looked at these
[1:43:20 - 1:43:21] ▶
and I'm trying to figure out
[1:43:21 - 1:43:22] ▶
what's the extension.
[1:43:22 - 1:43:22] ▶
Here's one thing
[1:43:22 - 1:43:23] ▶
that I've seen.
[1:43:23 - 1:43:23] ▶
The Faraday tensor
[1:43:25 - 1:43:27] ▶
made up of the
[1:43:27 - 1:43:28] ▶
electric and magnetic fields
[1:43:28 - 1:43:30] ▶
is naturally
[1:43:30 - 1:43:31] ▶
a degree two object.
[1:43:31 - 1:43:33] ▶
It's not naturally
[1:43:33 - 1:43:34] ▶
about vector fields.
[1:43:34 - 1:43:35] ▶
That only works
[1:43:35 - 1:43:36] ▶
if you take
[1:43:36 - 1:43:38] ▶
a particular
[1:43:38 - 1:43:38] ▶
slice of space
[1:43:38 - 1:43:40] ▶
in space-time
[1:43:40 - 1:43:41] ▶
where you shouldn't do that
[1:43:41 - 1:43:42] ▶
because that breaks
[1:43:42 - 1:43:44] ▶
Lorentz invariants.
[1:43:44 - 1:43:45] ▶
And then you say,
[1:43:45 - 1:43:46] ▶
okay,
[1:43:46 - 1:43:47] ▶
in a three-dimensional world,
[1:43:47 - 1:43:48] ▶
every two-tensor
[1:43:49 - 1:43:50] ▶
is dual
[1:43:50 - 1:43:51] ▶
to a three-minus-two tensor
[1:43:51 - 1:43:52] ▶
or a one-tensor
[1:43:52 - 1:43:53] ▶
or a vector field.
[1:43:53 - 1:43:54] ▶
And then you plot out
[1:43:55 - 1:43:56] ▶
these lines
[1:43:56 - 1:43:57] ▶
in the E and B fields
[1:43:57 - 1:43:59] ▶
as if they're vector fields.
[1:43:59 - 1:44:00] ▶
It's naturally
[1:44:01 - 1:44:01] ▶
a degree two object.
[1:44:01 - 1:44:02] ▶
So,
[1:44:04 - 1:44:04] ▶
Maxwell's equations
[1:44:05 - 1:44:06] ▶
reduce to two sets
[1:44:06 - 1:44:08] ▶
of equations,
[1:44:08 - 1:44:08] ▶
one of which
[1:44:08 - 1:44:09] ▶
is just true
[1:44:09 - 1:44:10] ▶
automatically
[1:44:10 - 1:44:10] ▶
when it's phrased
[1:44:10 - 1:44:11] ▶
geometrically.
[1:44:11 - 1:44:12] ▶
So,
[1:44:12 - 1:44:12] ▶
if you take
[1:44:12 - 1:44:13] ▶
D, A star,
[1:44:13 - 1:44:14] ▶
some operator,
[1:44:14 - 1:44:15] ▶
based on A,
[1:44:16 - 1:44:17] ▶
the gauge potential,
[1:44:17 - 1:44:20] ▶
the connection,
[1:44:20 - 1:44:21] ▶
it's really
[1:44:22 - 1:44:22] ▶
the vector and scalar,
[1:44:22 - 1:44:23] ▶
the four potential.
[1:44:23 - 1:44:24] ▶
DA star,
[1:44:24 - 1:44:27] ▶
that is the adjoint
[1:44:27 - 1:44:28] ▶
of that derivative,
[1:44:28 - 1:44:29] ▶
which is itself
[1:44:29 - 1:44:30] ▶
a derivative,
[1:44:30 - 1:44:30] ▶
applied to the Faraday tensor,
[1:44:31 - 1:44:33] ▶
brings it down a degree
[1:44:33 - 1:44:34] ▶
from two to one.
[1:44:34 - 1:44:35] ▶
Right.
[1:44:35 - 1:44:35] ▶
And you say,
[1:44:36 - 1:44:36] ▶
that thing
[1:44:36 - 1:44:37] ▶
is equal
[1:44:37 - 1:44:39] ▶
to the current,
[1:44:39 - 1:44:40] ▶
J,
[1:44:41 - 1:44:41] ▶
which is a degree one object.
[1:44:41 - 1:44:42] ▶
Yeah.
[1:44:42 - 1:44:43] ▶
But DA of FA,
[1:44:43 - 1:44:45] ▶
which takes
[1:44:45 - 1:44:46] ▶
a degree two object
[1:44:46 - 1:44:48] ▶
one degree up
[1:44:48 - 1:44:49] ▶
to a degree three object,
[1:44:49 - 1:44:50] ▶
is guaranteed
[1:44:50 - 1:44:51] ▶
to be zero
[1:44:51 - 1:44:52] ▶
for the same thing
[1:44:52 - 1:44:53] ▶
that makes
[1:44:53 - 1:44:54] ▶
the Einstein
[1:44:54 - 1:44:55] ▶
tensor divergence-free.
[1:44:55 - 1:44:58] ▶
The Bianchi identity
[1:44:58 - 1:44:59] ▶
is an abstract,
[1:44:59 - 1:45:00] ▶
guaranteed differential equation
[1:45:00 - 1:45:02] ▶
that comes out
[1:45:02 - 1:45:03] ▶
of the geometric
[1:45:03 - 1:45:03] ▶
construction of curvature.
[1:45:03 - 1:45:05] ▶
So,
[1:45:06 - 1:45:06] ▶
you throw one of
[1:45:06 - 1:45:07] ▶
the,
[1:45:07 - 1:45:08] ▶
these two equations away
[1:45:08 - 1:45:11] ▶
because it's guaranteed
[1:45:11 - 1:45:13] ▶
by geometry.
[1:45:13 - 1:45:15] ▶
So,
[1:45:16 - 1:45:16] ▶
the boundary
[1:45:16 - 1:45:17] ▶
of the boundary
[1:45:17 - 1:45:17] ▶
is zero.
[1:45:17 - 1:45:18] ▶
In essence.
[1:45:18 - 1:45:19] ▶
So,
[1:45:19 - 1:45:19] ▶
DA of FA
[1:45:19 - 1:45:22] ▶
equals zero
[1:45:22 - 1:45:23] ▶
represents
[1:45:23 - 1:45:24] ▶
two of the four
[1:45:24 - 1:45:25] ▶
Maxwell equations.
[1:45:25 - 1:45:26] ▶
And you throw it away.
[1:45:26 - 1:45:27] ▶
And then you're left
[1:45:27 - 1:45:28] ▶
with the inhomogeneous ones.
[1:45:28 - 1:45:29] ▶
And that's just
[1:45:29 - 1:45:30] ▶
DA star of FA
[1:45:30 - 1:45:31] ▶
equals J.
[1:45:31 - 1:45:32] ▶
One of the things
[1:45:34 - 1:45:35] ▶
I've seen
[1:45:35 - 1:45:36] ▶
in this world
[1:45:36 - 1:45:37] ▶
looks to me
[1:45:37 - 1:45:38] ▶
like
[1:45:38 - 1:45:38] ▶
DA star
[1:45:38 - 1:45:40] ▶
equals A.
[1:45:40 - 1:45:42] ▶
The idea
[1:45:42 - 1:45:43] ▶
is that the gauge
[1:45:43 - 1:45:44] ▶
potential
[1:45:44 - 1:45:44] ▶
is a degree
[1:45:44 - 1:45:45] ▶
one object.
[1:45:45 - 1:45:46] ▶
And so,
[1:45:46 - 1:45:47] ▶
you take
[1:45:47 - 1:45:47] ▶
DA star
[1:45:47 - 1:45:48] ▶
of a degree
[1:45:48 - 1:45:49] ▶
two object
[1:45:49 - 1:45:49] ▶
and that's
[1:45:49 - 1:45:50] ▶
set equal
[1:45:50 - 1:45:51] ▶
to a degree
[1:45:51 - 1:45:51] ▶
one object
[1:45:51 - 1:45:52] ▶
A.
[1:45:52 - 1:45:52] ▶
And that doesn't
[1:45:53 - 1:45:55] ▶
work
[1:45:55 - 1:45:55] ▶
to somebody
[1:45:55 - 1:45:57] ▶
who thinks
[1:45:57 - 1:45:58] ▶
in physics terms
[1:45:58 - 1:45:58] ▶
because on one
[1:45:58 - 1:46:00] ▶
side of the equation
[1:46:00 - 1:46:01] ▶
is what we would
[1:46:01 - 1:46:02] ▶
call a gauge
[1:46:02 - 1:46:02] ▶
invariant object,
[1:46:02 - 1:46:03] ▶
something with symmetry.
[1:46:03 - 1:46:04] ▶
And on the other
[1:46:05 - 1:46:05] ▶
side,
[1:46:05 - 1:46:06] ▶
there's an object
[1:46:06 - 1:46:07] ▶
that picks up
[1:46:07 - 1:46:08] ▶
an affine shift,
[1:46:08 - 1:46:09] ▶
meaning it isn't
[1:46:09 - 1:46:10] ▶
gauge invariant.
[1:46:10 - 1:46:12] ▶
Yeah.
[1:46:12 - 1:46:12] ▶
Okay.
[1:46:13 - 1:46:13] ▶
Yeah,
[1:46:13 - 1:46:14] ▶
I see what you're
[1:46:14 - 1:46:14] ▶
talking about.
[1:46:14 - 1:46:15] ▶
So you can't
[1:46:15 - 1:46:15] ▶
rotate both sides
[1:46:15 - 1:46:17] ▶
of the equation
[1:46:17 - 1:46:17] ▶
in the same way
[1:46:17 - 1:46:19] ▶
at once,
[1:46:19 - 1:46:19] ▶
therefore,
[1:46:20 - 1:46:20] ▶
it's not a
[1:46:20 - 1:46:21] ▶
legitimate equation
[1:46:21 - 1:46:22] ▶
even though
[1:46:22 - 1:46:22] ▶
they're both
[1:46:22 - 1:46:23] ▶
degree one object.
[1:46:23 - 1:46:23] ▶
So is this
[1:46:23 - 1:46:24] ▶
what extended
[1:46:24 - 1:46:24] ▶
electrodynamics
[1:46:24 - 1:46:25] ▶
is a ten-point
[1:46:25 - 1:46:26] ▶
case?
[1:46:26 - 1:46:26] ▶
Well,
[1:46:26 - 1:46:26] ▶
I don't know
[1:46:26 - 1:46:27] ▶
because to be
[1:46:27 - 1:46:28] ▶
entirely honest,
[1:46:28 - 1:46:28] ▶
the extended,
[1:46:29 - 1:46:29] ▶
look,
[1:46:30 - 1:46:30] ▶
I have had to
[1:46:31 - 1:46:32] ▶
wrap my head
[1:46:32 - 1:46:32] ▶
around the fact
[1:46:32 - 1:46:33] ▶
that we have
[1:46:33 - 1:46:34] ▶
three bizarre
[1:46:34 - 1:46:34] ▶
groups of people
[1:46:34 - 1:46:35] ▶
trying to do
[1:46:35 - 1:46:36] ▶
physics at least.
[1:46:36 - 1:46:37] ▶
There's a
[1:46:37 - 1:46:38] ▶
crackpot group
[1:46:38 - 1:46:39] ▶
which writes
[1:46:39 - 1:46:40] ▶
in red crayon
[1:46:40 - 1:46:41] ▶
and they're
[1:46:41 - 1:46:45] ▶
nowhere close
[1:46:45 - 1:46:45] ▶
to the target.
[1:46:45 - 1:46:46] ▶
There's a
[1:46:47 - 1:46:48] ▶
professional community
[1:46:48 - 1:46:49] ▶
which has gone
[1:46:49 - 1:46:50] ▶
somewhat insane
[1:46:50 - 1:46:51] ▶
but still remembers
[1:46:51 - 1:46:53] ▶
how to do
[1:46:53 - 1:46:53] ▶
physics from
[1:46:53 - 1:46:55] ▶
first and second
[1:46:55 - 1:46:55] ▶
year graduate
[1:46:55 - 1:46:57] ▶
intro classes
[1:46:57 - 1:46:58] ▶
even if they're
[1:46:58 - 1:46:59] ▶
researching toy
[1:46:59 - 1:47:00] ▶
models and they've
[1:47:00 - 1:47:01] ▶
never seen a
[1:47:01 - 1:47:02] ▶
quark or a
[1:47:02 - 1:47:02] ▶
lepton in their
[1:47:02 - 1:47:03] ▶
research in the
[1:47:03 - 1:47:04] ▶
last decade.
[1:47:04 - 1:47:04] ▶
And then there's
[1:47:05 - 1:47:06] ▶
this intermediate
[1:47:06 - 1:47:06] ▶
group which I just
[1:47:06 - 1:47:07] ▶
didn't know existed
[1:47:07 - 1:47:08] ▶
which I will call
[1:47:08 - 1:47:09] ▶
fringe physics.
[1:47:09 - 1:47:10] ▶
And fringe
[1:47:10 - 1:47:12] ▶
physics is
[1:47:12 - 1:47:13] ▶
in general
[1:47:13 - 1:47:14] ▶
people with
[1:47:14 - 1:47:16] ▶
sort of like
[1:47:16 - 1:47:16] ▶
an electrical
[1:47:16 - 1:47:18] ▶
engineering background.
[1:47:18 - 1:47:19] ▶
They know
[1:47:19 - 1:47:20] ▶
calculus.
[1:47:20 - 1:47:20] ▶
They know
[1:47:21 - 1:47:22] ▶
integrals.
[1:47:22 - 1:47:23] ▶
They're often
[1:47:23 - 1:47:23] ▶
technically quite
[1:47:23 - 1:47:24] ▶
good.
[1:47:24 - 1:47:25] ▶
And they get
[1:47:26 - 1:47:27] ▶
an idea that
[1:47:27 - 1:47:28] ▶
gravitation looks
[1:47:28 - 1:47:29] ▶
a lot like
[1:47:29 - 1:47:29] ▶
electromagnetism.
[1:47:29 - 1:47:30] ▶
I wonder if I
[1:47:30 - 1:47:31] ▶
can contribute
[1:47:31 - 1:47:32] ▶
something.
[1:47:32 - 1:47:32] ▶
But they don't
[1:47:33 - 1:47:34] ▶
have a sense of
[1:47:34 - 1:47:35] ▶
all the things
[1:47:35 - 1:47:35] ▶
that can go
[1:47:35 - 1:47:36] ▶
wrong.
[1:47:36 - 1:47:37] ▶
Yes.
[1:47:37 - 1:47:37] ▶
I think I
[1:47:38 - 1:47:38] ▶
know about that.
[1:47:38 - 1:47:39] ▶
So they tinker
[1:47:39 - 1:47:39] ▶
but sometimes
[1:47:39 - 1:47:41] ▶
a tinkerer
[1:47:41 - 1:47:42] ▶
can stumble
[1:47:42 - 1:47:44] ▶
on something.
[1:47:44 - 1:47:45] ▶
So for example
[1:47:45 - 1:47:46] ▶
you could easily
[1:47:46 - 1:47:47] ▶
imagine somebody
[1:47:47 - 1:47:48] ▶
stumbling on the
[1:47:48 - 1:47:49] ▶
Aronoff-Bohm
[1:47:49 - 1:47:51] ▶
effect which is
[1:47:51 - 1:47:53] ▶
one of these
[1:47:53 - 1:47:53] ▶
hidden features
[1:47:53 - 1:47:55] ▶
of the world.
[1:47:55 - 1:47:56] ▶
So our
[1:47:56 - 1:47:57] ▶
colleague Sabina
[1:47:57 - 1:47:58] ▶
Hassenfelder has
[1:47:58 - 1:47:59] ▶
a video not too
[1:47:59 - 1:48:00] ▶
long ago where she
[1:48:00 - 1:48:00] ▶
took something that
[1:48:00 - 1:48:01] ▶
I've only thought
[1:48:01 - 1:48:03] ▶
about and heard
[1:48:03 - 1:48:03] ▶
about is physics
[1:48:03 - 1:48:04] ▶
folklore.
[1:48:04 - 1:48:05] ▶
So there's only
[1:48:05 - 1:48:06] ▶
three ways to hide
[1:48:06 - 1:48:07] ▶
new physics.
[1:48:07 - 1:48:07] ▶
It's kind of an
[1:48:08 - 1:48:08] ▶
interesting idea.
[1:48:08 - 1:48:09] ▶
The first way is
[1:48:09 - 1:48:10] ▶
that that can be
[1:48:10 - 1:48:11] ▶
so energetic that
[1:48:11 - 1:48:12] ▶
you can't afford
[1:48:12 - 1:48:13] ▶
to see it.
[1:48:13 - 1:48:13] ▶
So maybe there
[1:48:14 - 1:48:15] ▶
are particles out
[1:48:15 - 1:48:15] ▶
there when we
[1:48:15 - 1:48:16] ▶
can't create enough
[1:48:16 - 1:48:17] ▶
energy to get one
[1:48:17 - 1:48:18] ▶
of these particles
[1:48:18 - 1:48:18] ▶
to pop out of
[1:48:18 - 1:48:19] ▶
the vacuum.
[1:48:19 - 1:48:19] ▶
Second thing is
[1:48:20 - 1:48:21] ▶
that something is
[1:48:21 - 1:48:22] ▶
so weakly coupled
[1:48:22 - 1:48:23] ▶
you can barely
[1:48:23 - 1:48:24] ▶
detect it.
[1:48:24 - 1:48:24] ▶
So there are lots
[1:48:24 - 1:48:25] ▶
of neutrinos
[1:48:25 - 1:48:26] ▶
everywhere.
[1:48:26 - 1:48:26] ▶
Yes.
[1:48:27 - 1:48:27] ▶
but they're so
[1:48:27 - 1:48:28] ▶
hard to get to
[1:48:28 - 1:48:29] ▶
interact with
[1:48:29 - 1:48:29] ▶
anything that you
[1:48:29 - 1:48:30] ▶
don't know that
[1:48:30 - 1:48:31] ▶
they're there.
[1:48:31 - 1:48:31] ▶
And then the
[1:48:31 - 1:48:32] ▶
third thing is the
[1:48:32 - 1:48:32] ▶
really interesting
[1:48:32 - 1:48:33] ▶
one for UFO land.
[1:48:33 - 1:48:35] ▶
Sometimes there's a
[1:48:36 - 1:48:37] ▶
configuration that
[1:48:37 - 1:48:39] ▶
you would never
[1:48:39 - 1:48:40] ▶
think to put things
[1:48:40 - 1:48:41] ▶
in.
[1:48:41 - 1:48:41] ▶
Like let's get the
[1:48:41 - 1:48:42] ▶
current up to this
[1:48:42 - 1:48:43] ▶
we'll spin something
[1:48:43 - 1:48:44] ▶
around we'll evacuate
[1:48:44 - 1:48:45] ▶
a tube we'll put the
[1:48:45 - 1:48:47] ▶
following rare compounds
[1:48:47 - 1:48:48] ▶
that have these
[1:48:48 - 1:48:49] ▶
particular things and
[1:48:49 - 1:48:50] ▶
maybe we'll see an
[1:48:50 - 1:48:51] ▶
effect that is normally
[1:48:51 - 1:48:52] ▶
hidden amplified to
[1:48:52 - 1:48:54] ▶
the point where it
[1:48:54 - 1:48:54] ▶
becomes absolutely
[1:48:54 - 1:48:56] ▶
clear.
[1:48:56 - 1:48:56] ▶
You know like the
[1:48:57 - 1:48:57] ▶
Casimir effect you
[1:48:57 - 1:48:58] ▶
needed to know that
[1:48:58 - 1:48:59] ▶
you had to put two
[1:48:59 - 1:49:00] ▶
plates very close
[1:49:00 - 1:49:01] ▶
together for something
[1:49:01 - 1:49:02] ▶
to happen.
[1:49:02 - 1:49:02] ▶
Yeah.
[1:49:03 - 1:49:03] ▶
So that's sort of
[1:49:05 - 1:49:06] ▶
what we're looking
[1:49:06 - 1:49:06] ▶
for.
[1:49:06 - 1:49:06] ▶
We're looking for is
[1:49:07 - 1:49:08] ▶
there any new thing
[1:49:08 - 1:49:10] ▶
that we could do that
[1:49:10 - 1:49:13] ▶
doesn't require too
[1:49:13 - 1:49:13] ▶
much energy.
[1:49:13 - 1:49:14] ▶
There's not so weakly
[1:49:14 - 1:49:15] ▶
coupled that we can
[1:49:15 - 1:49:16] ▶
barely detect it but
[1:49:16 - 1:49:18] ▶
that can be coaxed to
[1:49:18 - 1:49:19] ▶
show itself the way
[1:49:19 - 1:49:20] ▶
the Aronoff-Bohm
[1:49:20 - 1:49:21] ▶
effect could have been
[1:49:21 - 1:49:22] ▶
discovered by an
[1:49:22 - 1:49:23] ▶
experimenter passing a
[1:49:23 - 1:49:25] ▶
beam of electrons
[1:49:25 - 1:49:26] ▶
around an insulated
[1:49:26 - 1:49:28] ▶
solenoid and noticing
[1:49:28 - 1:49:30] ▶
oh my god it seems to
[1:49:30 - 1:49:32] ▶
be able to detect the
[1:49:32 - 1:49:33] ▶
current.
[1:49:33 - 1:49:33] ▶
I believe in a podcast
[1:49:34 - 1:49:36] ▶
with Anna Brady
[1:49:36 - 1:49:37] ▶
Estevez Hal put off
[1:49:37 - 1:49:38] ▶
openly discussed this
[1:49:38 - 1:49:41] ▶
idea of extended
[1:49:41 - 1:49:41] ▶
electrodynamics and him
[1:49:41 - 1:49:43] ▶
even working with
[1:49:43 - 1:49:44] ▶
Josephson junctions and
[1:49:44 - 1:49:47] ▶
this idea of vector and
[1:49:47 - 1:49:49] ▶
scalar potential.
[1:49:49 - 1:49:49] ▶
So this idea of
[1:49:50 - 1:49:50] ▶
extended electrodynamics is
[1:49:50 - 1:49:51] ▶
that the Lorentz gauge is
[1:49:51 - 1:49:54] ▶
arbitrarily set to zero
[1:49:54 - 1:49:56] ▶
and the derivatives of
[1:49:56 - 1:49:58] ▶
the vector and scalar
[1:49:58 - 1:49:59] ▶
potentials should not
[1:49:59 - 1:50:02] ▶
necessarily equal zero.
[1:50:02 - 1:50:03] ▶
And so theoretically in
[1:50:04 - 1:50:05] ▶
terms of implications for
[1:50:05 - 1:50:06] ▶
the audience instead of
[1:50:06 - 1:50:08] ▶
having this transverse
[1:50:08 - 1:50:09] ▶
Hertzian wave which is
[1:50:09 - 1:50:10] ▶
going to propagate at one
[1:50:10 - 1:50:11] ▶
over r squared you're
[1:50:11 - 1:50:13] ▶
going to get electrons
[1:50:13 - 1:50:14] ▶
pairing off in all sorts of
[1:50:14 - 1:50:15] ▶
situations.
[1:50:15 - 1:50:15] ▶
You're going to get this
[1:50:15 - 1:50:16] ▶
kind of rapid attenuation
[1:50:16 - 1:50:17] ▶
of the signal.
[1:50:17 - 1:50:18] ▶
You might have other
[1:50:18 - 1:50:20] ▶
sort of more exotic
[1:50:20 - 1:50:21] ▶
configurations of you
[1:50:21 - 1:50:23] ▶
know parallel like you
[1:50:23 - 1:50:25] ▶
know wave propagation
[1:50:25 - 1:50:27] ▶
in a magnetic field or
[1:50:27 - 1:50:29] ▶
not even the existence of
[1:50:29 - 1:50:30] ▶
an electric of an you
[1:50:30 - 1:50:32] ▶
know an e-field or
[1:50:32 - 1:50:32] ▶
whatever with a with an
[1:50:32 - 1:50:34] ▶
electromagnetic wave.
[1:50:34 - 1:50:35] ▶
And I believe Hal has
[1:50:35 - 1:50:36] ▶
openly discussed this with
[1:50:36 - 1:50:37] ▶
Anna Brady Estevez on
[1:50:37 - 1:50:38] ▶
this you know former
[1:50:38 - 1:50:39] ▶
National Science
[1:50:39 - 1:50:40] ▶
Foundation director on
[1:50:40 - 1:50:42] ▶
her podcast.
[1:50:42 - 1:50:42] ▶
I didn't see the
[1:50:42 - 1:50:43] ▶
video of that.
[1:50:43 - 1:50:44] ▶
Okay.
[1:50:44 - 1:50:44] ▶
Okay.
[1:50:44 - 1:50:45] ▶
I've never I never knew
[1:50:45 - 1:50:46] ▶
there was a video until
[1:50:46 - 1:50:47] ▶
I think she mentioned
[1:50:47 - 1:50:49] ▶
it to me last year.
[1:50:49 - 1:50:51] ▶
So.
[1:50:51 - 1:50:51] ▶
So you hear you hear a
[1:50:51 - 1:50:52] ▶
lot of this stuff in UFO
[1:50:52 - 1:50:54] ▶
world like you know
[1:50:54 - 1:50:55] ▶
extended electrodynamics and
[1:50:55 - 1:50:56] ▶
then even possible
[1:50:56 - 1:50:57] ▶
experimental inroads
[1:50:57 - 1:50:58] ▶
towards that.
[1:50:58 - 1:50:59] ▶
And do you know
[1:50:59 - 1:51:00] ▶
anything about that
[1:51:00 - 1:51:01] ▶
sort of thing or no?
[1:51:01 - 1:51:02] ▶
Okay.
[1:51:03 - 1:51:03] ▶
There are a couple of
[1:51:04 - 1:51:04] ▶
names that came out of
[1:51:04 - 1:51:05] ▶
that podcast.
[1:51:05 - 1:51:06] ▶
Uh, Dr.
[1:51:06 - 1:51:07] ▶
Louis Desharro and
[1:51:07 - 1:51:08] ▶
Dr.
[1:51:08 - 1:51:09] ▶
Larry Forsley that
[1:51:09 - 1:51:10] ▶
would be of interest to
[1:51:10 - 1:51:11] ▶
Dr.
[1:51:11 - 1:51:11] ▶
And I know Larry.
[1:51:11 - 1:51:12] ▶
Yeah.
[1:51:12 - 1:51:13] ▶
Yeah.
[1:51:13 - 1:51:14] ▶
Well, so.
[1:51:14 - 1:51:15] ▶
one of the things that
[1:51:15 - 1:51:17] ▶
comes out of my work is
[1:51:17 - 1:51:19] ▶
that we may have the
[1:51:19 - 1:51:22] ▶
gauge potential that you
[1:51:22 - 1:51:25] ▶
would put into such an
[1:51:25 - 1:51:26] ▶
equation wrong.
[1:51:26 - 1:51:27] ▶
And the thought is the
[1:51:27 - 1:51:28] ▶
following.
[1:51:28 - 1:51:28] ▶
Every gauge potential,
[1:51:29 - 1:51:31] ▶
every, every connection,
[1:51:31 - 1:51:32] ▶
um, has a disease when
[1:51:33 - 1:51:37] ▶
you gauge, uh, transform it.
[1:51:37 - 1:51:40] ▶
And this disease, uh, if the
[1:51:40 - 1:51:42] ▶
gauge transformation is
[1:51:42 - 1:51:43] ▶
called G it would look like
[1:51:43 - 1:51:44] ▶
G inverse D G where D
[1:51:44 - 1:51:47] ▶
attacks G.
[1:51:47 - 1:51:48] ▶
So you differentiate the
[1:51:48 - 1:51:49] ▶
transformation and then you
[1:51:49 - 1:51:50] ▶
use the G inverse to pull
[1:51:50 - 1:51:51] ▶
it back to the origin of the
[1:51:51 - 1:51:53] ▶
league.
[1:51:53 - 1:51:54] ▶
Okay.
[1:51:54 - 1:51:54] ▶
That term has no reference to
[1:51:55 - 1:52:00] ▶
the, the connection or the
[1:52:00 - 1:52:02] ▶
gauge potential a, in other
[1:52:02 - 1:52:04] ▶
words, it's G inverse D G.
[1:52:04 - 1:52:06] ▶
Yeah.
[1:52:06 - 1:52:06] ▶
But G inverse A G is perfectly,
[1:52:06 - 1:52:09] ▶
uh, gauge invariant if you put
[1:52:09 - 1:52:12] ▶
it into a Lagrangian.
[1:52:12 - 1:52:13] ▶
So in other words, there's the
[1:52:13 - 1:52:14] ▶
part that works beautifully and
[1:52:14 - 1:52:17] ▶
there's the part that spoils the
[1:52:17 - 1:52:19] ▶
party, but the part that spoils the
[1:52:19 - 1:52:21] ▶
party has no dependence on A
[1:52:21 - 1:52:23] ▶
whatsoever.
[1:52:23 - 1:52:23] ▶
Uh-huh.
[1:52:24 - 1:52:24] ▶
So if you had two separate
[1:52:24 - 1:52:26] ▶
potentials, A and B, you'd get
[1:52:26 - 1:52:29] ▶
G inverse A G plus G inverse D G
[1:52:29 - 1:52:35] ▶
and G inverse B G plus G inverse
[1:52:35 - 1:52:40] ▶
D G.
[1:52:40 - 1:52:41] ▶
So the diseases are the same.
[1:52:41 - 1:52:43] ▶
You take a difference between
[1:52:44 - 1:52:45] ▶
them and the two diseases kill each
[1:52:45 - 1:52:47] ▶
other and go away.
[1:52:47 - 1:52:48] ▶
And you have two terms left over G
[1:52:48 - 1:52:51] ▶
inverse A G and G inverse B G added
[1:52:51 - 1:52:54] ▶
together.
[1:52:54 - 1:52:54] ▶
So one possibility is that even
[1:52:55 - 1:52:58] ▶
though this community says a bunch
[1:52:58 - 1:52:59] ▶
of stuff that makes me very
[1:52:59 - 1:53:02] ▶
uncomfortable is that you could
[1:53:02 - 1:53:05] ▶
have a tinkering community that is
[1:53:05 - 1:53:07] ▶
actually stumbling to things that
[1:53:07 - 1:53:09] ▶
everyone else is too sophisticated to
[1:53:09 - 1:53:11] ▶
look for just the way when we
[1:53:11 - 1:53:13] ▶
thought it was the E and the B
[1:53:13 - 1:53:14] ▶
fields, nobody was looking for the
[1:53:14 - 1:53:17] ▶
holonomy effect, which is a
[1:53:17 - 1:53:18] ▶
classical effect that's discovered
[1:53:18 - 1:53:20] ▶
quantum mechanically.
[1:53:20 - 1:53:21] ▶
So the embarrassment of finding the
[1:53:21 - 1:53:24] ▶
Aronoff-Bohm effect in the late
[1:53:24 - 1:53:26] ▶
fifties, when we thought we knew
[1:53:26 - 1:53:28] ▶
everything there was to know about
[1:53:28 - 1:53:29] ▶
electromagnetism is the great,
[1:53:29 - 1:53:32] ▶
greatest proof we have that a
[1:53:33 - 1:53:35] ▶
theory that is supposedly completely
[1:53:35 - 1:53:38] ▶
picked over and come and totally
[1:53:38 - 1:53:39] ▶
explored may have basic things that
[1:53:39 - 1:53:44] ▶
we have wrong about it.
[1:53:44 - 1:53:46] ▶
Well, into our sophisticated old age.
[1:53:46 - 1:53:49] ▶
Yeah.
[1:53:49 - 1:53:49] ▶
Basically up until that point, nobody
[1:53:49 - 1:53:52] ▶
realized or even gave thought that the
[1:53:52 - 1:53:55] ▶
four vector potential was a physical
[1:53:55 - 1:53:57] ▶
field.
[1:53:57 - 1:53:57] ▶
Well, it isn't in a certain sense.
[1:53:57 - 1:54:00] ▶
It's a quick, so I give this example
[1:54:00 - 1:54:02] ▶
that if you know a professional model,
[1:54:02 - 1:54:05] ▶
they're expected to have a set of things
[1:54:05 - 1:54:08] ▶
that are called Polaroids.
[1:54:08 - 1:54:09] ▶
They're just shots of that model in
[1:54:09 - 1:54:11] ▶
various standard poses so that somebody
[1:54:11 - 1:54:14] ▶
who wants to hire that model can say,
[1:54:14 - 1:54:17] ▶
this is what this person looks like without
[1:54:17 - 1:54:18] ▶
makeup and without fancy clothes, right?
[1:54:18 - 1:54:20] ▶
Those different Polaroids are what we
[1:54:22 - 1:54:24] ▶
would call, I don't know, they're sort
[1:54:24 - 1:54:27] ▶
of avatars of the same underlying human.
[1:54:27 - 1:54:30] ▶
And so if somebody says, I want to hire
[1:54:31 - 1:54:32] ▶
that person in three quarter profile, you
[1:54:32 - 1:54:35] ▶
say, well, no, you hire the person.
[1:54:35 - 1:54:38] ▶
That's just the particular shot of the
[1:54:38 - 1:54:40] ▶
person.
[1:54:40 - 1:54:40] ▶
The electromagnetic potential is an
[1:54:41 - 1:54:44] ▶
equivalence class equivalent to give me
[1:54:44 - 1:54:47] ▶
all of the Polaroids to represent the
[1:54:47 - 1:54:49] ▶
one model.
[1:54:49 - 1:54:50] ▶
Okay.
[1:54:50 - 1:54:50] ▶
So the big problem comes out when you
[1:54:51 - 1:54:53] ▶
single out one Polaroid, you say, no,
[1:54:53 - 1:54:55] ▶
no, that's the field.
[1:54:55 - 1:54:56] ▶
Because what that is, is that's a
[1:54:57 - 1:54:59] ▶
particular representation of that field,
[1:54:59 - 1:55:01] ▶
but they're all representations of the
[1:55:01 - 1:55:03] ▶
same underlying field.
[1:55:03 - 1:55:04] ▶
Okay.
[1:55:05 - 1:55:05] ▶
Yep.
[1:55:05 - 1:55:06] ▶
So that's the problem that needed to get
[1:55:06 - 1:55:08] ▶
solved.
[1:55:08 - 1:55:08] ▶
So we don't have anybody in academia
[1:55:08 - 1:55:10] ▶
that's pursuing extended electrodynamics.
[1:55:10 - 1:55:13] ▶
I don't know.
[1:55:14 - 1:55:15] ▶
No, we do.
[1:55:16 - 1:55:17] ▶
There's a guy named Lee Hively in
[1:55:17 - 1:55:20] ▶
Colorado Springs, and he has a colleague
[1:55:20 - 1:55:23] ▶
named Woodside, who I believe is in
[1:55:23 - 1:55:26] ▶
Australia.
[1:55:26 - 1:55:27] ▶
And then there's another guy, I think,
[1:55:27 - 1:55:29] ▶
Strobel or Lobel or something.
[1:55:29 - 1:55:31] ▶
So there are a few of these guys, and
[1:55:31 - 1:55:33] ▶
they've written a paper about extended
[1:55:33 - 1:55:35] ▶
electrodynamics.
[1:55:35 - 1:55:36] ▶
So another thing that really confuses
[1:55:36 - 1:55:39] ▶
me is I saw a bizarre video from 1991,
[1:55:39 - 1:55:45] ▶
which Joe Rogan pointed me to with this
[1:55:45 - 1:55:48] ▶
guy, Bob Lazar, seemingly talking nonsense.
[1:55:48 - 1:55:51] ▶
Yes.
[1:55:52 - 1:55:52] ▶
Do you recall what he says about the
[1:55:53 - 1:55:57] ▶
fact that you do this engineering with
[1:55:57 - 1:55:59] ▶
gravity wave A and gravity wave B?
[1:55:59 - 1:56:01] ▶
No, not entirely.
[1:56:03 - 1:56:05] ▶
It's been so long.
[1:56:05 - 1:56:06] ▶
He doesn't know what he's talking about
[1:56:06 - 1:56:07] ▶
because he was a radiation health monitor
[1:56:07 - 1:56:09] ▶
for Kimber Meyer Company, and they were
[1:56:09 - 1:56:16] ▶
a logistic service company servicing Los
[1:56:16 - 1:56:20] ▶
Alamos National Lab in Area 51.
[1:56:20 - 1:56:22] ▶
He never had security clearances.
[1:56:22 - 1:56:24] ▶
He never graduated.
[1:56:24 - 1:56:25] ▶
Never.
[1:56:25 - 1:56:25] ▶
He dropped out of his first year of
[1:56:25 - 1:56:27] ▶
college, et cetera, et cetera.
[1:56:27 - 1:56:28] ▶
He's not a physicist.
[1:56:28 - 1:56:29] ▶
Well, I know that.
[1:56:29 - 1:56:30] ▶
Yeah.
[1:56:30 - 1:56:30] ▶
I know.
[1:56:30 - 1:56:31] ▶
So I don't remember, but all I know is
[1:56:31 - 1:56:32] ▶
he claims element 115 created antimatter,
[1:56:32 - 1:56:38] ▶
which somehow had something to do with
[1:56:38 - 1:56:40] ▶
creating gravitational waves in the
[1:56:40 - 1:56:42] ▶
propulsion system.
[1:56:42 - 1:56:43] ▶
Did you hear the Jeffrey Epstein tape
[1:56:43 - 1:56:44] ▶
with Steve Bannon?
[1:56:44 - 1:56:46] ▶
No.
[1:56:47 - 1:56:48] ▶
Jeffrey Epstein didn't know what he was
[1:56:48 - 1:56:49] ▶
talking about either.
[1:56:49 - 1:56:50] ▶
No.
[1:56:50 - 1:56:50] ▶
I'm not familiar with you.
[1:56:50 - 1:56:51] ▶
But you can tell that Jeffrey Epstein
[1:56:51 - 1:56:53] ▶
was talking to people who knew what they were
[1:56:53 - 1:56:56] ▶
talking about, and he's this garbled version of this.
[1:56:56 - 1:56:59] ▶
Let's assume the same thing for Bob Lazar.
[1:57:00 - 1:57:02] ▶
Let's assume that he was janitorial staff,
[1:57:02 - 1:57:04] ▶
and that he just happened to be in a sensitive location,
[1:57:04 - 1:57:06] ▶
and that he's saying something,
[1:57:06 - 1:57:08] ▶
because it sounds to me like total garbage.
[1:57:08 - 1:57:10] ▶
Yeah.
[1:57:11 - 1:57:11] ▶
Okay.
[1:57:12 - 1:57:12] ▶
He says this thing, which is crazy.
[1:57:13 - 1:57:15] ▶
He says there's gravity wave A and gravity wave B,
[1:57:15 - 1:57:18] ▶
and you most likely think of gravity as gravity wave B.
[1:57:18 - 1:57:22] ▶
That's the long-range stuff with stars and planets.
[1:57:22 - 1:57:25] ▶
He says, but gravity wave A is different,
[1:57:26 - 1:57:28] ▶
and you associate it with the strong nuclear force.
[1:57:28 - 1:57:30] ▶
So, of course, I want to throw up in my mouth, right?
[1:57:31 - 1:57:35] ▶
And he says this thing about QCD,
[1:57:35 - 1:57:41] ▶
quantum chromodynamics of the strong nuclear force,
[1:57:41 - 1:57:44] ▶
is what gravity wave A is all about.
[1:57:44 - 1:57:46] ▶
And so the idea is going to be that somehow,
[1:57:47 - 1:57:49] ▶
if you could actually understand that what was going on in QCD
[1:57:49 - 1:57:52] ▶
had to do with gravity,
[1:57:52 - 1:57:53] ▶
you would understand that that's the source of strength
[1:57:53 - 1:57:56] ▶
with the ability to actually do something with space and time.
[1:57:56 - 1:57:59] ▶
So, seems totally stupid,
[1:58:00 - 1:58:02] ▶
but let me just point out the following thing.
[1:58:02 - 1:58:03] ▶
There are only two Lagrangians or actions that I know of
[1:58:05 - 1:58:11] ▶
that give an Euler-Lagrange equation
[1:58:11 - 1:58:15] ▶
with the curvature appearing without a derivative in front of it.
[1:58:15 - 1:58:20] ▶
One of them is the Einstein-Hilbert action,
[1:58:20 - 1:58:22] ▶
which when differentiated,
[1:58:22 - 1:58:24] ▶
gives you the Ricci curvature minus the scalar curvature
[1:58:25 - 1:58:29] ▶
over two times the metric.
[1:58:29 - 1:58:30] ▶
The other one is a thing called the Chern-Simons function.
[1:58:31 - 1:58:34] ▶
Yeah, it's been interesting.
[1:58:34 - 1:58:35] ▶
Chern-Simons action.
[1:58:35 - 1:58:36] ▶
Yeah.
[1:58:36 - 1:58:37] ▶
The Chern-Simons action comes from something called
[1:58:38 - 1:58:41] ▶
the transgression of the Pontryagin class
[1:58:41 - 1:58:43] ▶
in the Chern-Vey representation.
[1:58:44 - 1:58:45] ▶
Yeah.
[1:58:46 - 1:58:46] ▶
That is part of QCD.
[1:58:47 - 1:58:49] ▶
In other words,
[1:58:50 - 1:58:51] ▶
the normal Yang-Mills Lagrangian,
[1:58:52 - 1:58:54] ▶
we would represent as F inner product F,
[1:58:54 - 1:59:00] ▶
norm square of F,
[1:59:01 - 1:59:02] ▶
where F is the field string.
[1:59:02 - 1:59:03] ▶
From the topology of,
[1:59:03 - 1:59:05] ▶
what is geometry and topology for physics,
[1:59:06 - 1:59:08] ▶
and I can't remember who the author of that book was,
[1:59:08 - 1:59:10] ▶
but I've seen that now.
[1:59:10 - 1:59:11] ▶
But only in dimension four,
[1:59:11 - 1:59:14] ▶
you can form a different quantity,
[1:59:15 - 1:59:16] ▶
where you take F inner product star F,
[1:59:16 - 1:59:21] ▶
where star is the Hodge star or complementarity operator.
[1:59:22 - 1:59:25] ▶
And that thing generates the Pontryagin class,
[1:59:26 - 1:59:31] ▶
which when transgressed gives you the Chern-Simons,
[1:59:31 - 1:59:33] ▶
which gives you the Lagrangian
[1:59:33 - 1:59:35] ▶
that is closest to general relativity.
[1:59:35 - 1:59:37] ▶
Interesting.
[1:59:37 - 1:59:38] ▶
I haven't seen that.
[1:59:39 - 1:59:40] ▶
Well, because nobody's talked about it ever.
[1:59:40 - 1:59:42] ▶
Yeah.
[1:59:42 - 1:59:42] ▶
Okay.
[1:59:43 - 1:59:43] ▶
So I think this is the first time
[1:59:44 - 1:59:45] ▶
I'm ever mentioning it in public.
[1:59:45 - 1:59:48] ▶
So the thought that I had is,
[1:59:48 - 1:59:50] ▶
assume that Bob Lazar is an unreliable narrator,
[1:59:50 - 1:59:53] ▶
and that he was hanging around water coolers,
[1:59:53 - 1:59:56] ▶
and he was hearing crazy stuff,
[1:59:56 - 1:59:57] ▶
and that it's a mix of bullshit and something.
[1:59:57 - 1:59:59] ▶
Is it possible, Eric,
[2:00:01 - 2:00:03] ▶
that what he's talking about
[2:00:04 - 2:00:06] ▶
is that the theta term from QCD
[2:00:06 - 2:00:09] ▶
is what he's calling stupidly gravity wave A,
[2:00:09 - 2:00:13] ▶
which no person I've ever heard of
[2:00:13 - 2:00:14] ▶
has ever used that terminology.
[2:00:14 - 2:00:16] ▶
I wouldn't think he'd be consciously aware of that.
[2:00:17 - 2:00:20] ▶
I don't know if it's possible.
[2:00:21 - 2:00:23] ▶
It's too,
[2:00:23 - 2:00:24] ▶
I can't rely on anything he says
[2:00:24 - 2:00:26] ▶
because of his history.
[2:00:26 - 2:00:27] ▶
Dr. Davis,
[2:00:28 - 2:00:29] ▶
just to play devil's advocate with Bob Lazar,
[2:00:29 - 2:00:31] ▶
you were saying there's this longstanding UFO legacy
[2:00:32 - 2:00:34] ▶
crash retrieval program,
[2:00:34 - 2:00:36] ▶
you have one guy who's come out publicly
[2:00:36 - 2:00:39] ▶
and has not changed his story since 89.
[2:00:39 - 2:00:42] ▶
Well, I know.
[2:00:42 - 2:00:42] ▶
We didn't really know too much
[2:00:42 - 2:00:44] ▶
about the existence of Area 51,
[2:00:44 - 2:00:45] ▶
definitely not S4.
[2:00:46 - 2:00:47] ▶
I've never been there.
[2:00:47 - 2:00:48] ▶
But how would he know about,
[2:00:49 - 2:00:50] ▶
you know, Janet Airlines,
[2:00:50 - 2:00:51] ▶
lines of flight there?
[2:00:51 - 2:00:52] ▶
Well, he worked at Los Alamos,
[2:00:52 - 2:00:52] ▶
and he worked at the Unclassified Logistic Support Facility
[2:00:52 - 2:00:56] ▶
over on McCarran,
[2:00:56 - 2:00:57] ▶
over on Sunset Boulevard,
[2:00:58 - 2:00:59] ▶
next to,
[2:01:00 - 2:01:00] ▶
not Sunset Boulevard,
[2:01:00 - 2:01:02] ▶
Sunset Drive,
[2:01:02 - 2:01:02] ▶
next to McCarran Airport.
[2:01:03 - 2:01:03] ▶
There's a row of light industrial buildings
[2:01:04 - 2:01:07] ▶
along Sunset Road.
[2:01:07 - 2:01:09] ▶
And McCarran is right across the street.
[2:01:09 - 2:01:11] ▶
So Kimber Meyer was there,
[2:01:12 - 2:01:14] ▶
EG&G Special Projects was like next door.
[2:01:14 - 2:01:17] ▶
So he didn't go
[2:01:17 - 2:01:19] ▶
because he didn't have clearances.
[2:01:19 - 2:01:20] ▶
His job was just a radiation health badge monitor.
[2:01:20 - 2:01:23] ▶
So people that get on the Janet flight
[2:01:23 - 2:01:25] ▶
to go to Area 51,
[2:01:25 - 2:01:26] ▶
he gives them their radiation badges.
[2:01:27 - 2:01:29] ▶
When they come home from work,
[2:01:29 - 2:01:31] ▶
they get off that Janet flight,
[2:01:31 - 2:01:32] ▶
they got to give them back,
[2:01:32 - 2:01:33] ▶
give those badges back to him.
[2:01:33 - 2:01:34] ▶
And his job is to check those badges every day
[2:01:34 - 2:01:37] ▶
to make sure that they're running.
[2:01:37 - 2:01:38] ▶
Okay, but he's not a theoretical physicist,
[2:01:38 - 2:01:39] ▶
but he does have engineering chops.
[2:01:39 - 2:01:41] ▶
Like he runs currently United Nuclear.
[2:01:41 - 2:01:44] ▶
He literally put a jet engine on the tobacco condom.
[2:01:44 - 2:01:47] ▶
Yeah, I know.
[2:01:47 - 2:01:47] ▶
That's just a tinkerer.
[2:01:47 - 2:01:49] ▶
He's a hobbyist.
[2:01:49 - 2:01:49] ▶
He's also been twice convicted of felonies,
[2:01:50 - 2:01:52] ▶
including...
[2:01:52 - 2:01:53] ▶
Yeah, this isn't...
[2:01:53 - 2:01:54] ▶
Guys...
[2:01:54 - 2:01:54] ▶
He's a nutcase.
[2:01:54 - 2:01:55] ▶
I have no interest in Bob Lazar the person.
[2:01:55 - 2:01:58] ▶
The key question is,
[2:01:58 - 2:01:59] ▶
if he was proximate to information that he garbled,
[2:01:59 - 2:02:02] ▶
is it possible...
[2:02:03 - 2:02:03] ▶
Could it be possibly that?
[2:02:03 - 2:02:05] ▶
To take the garbled message
[2:02:05 - 2:02:06] ▶
and associate QCD with two sectors,
[2:02:06 - 2:02:09] ▶
a Yang-Mills sector and a Pontryagin sector,
[2:02:09 - 2:02:12] ▶
and that the Chernvape representation
[2:02:12 - 2:02:14] ▶
of the Pontryagin sector inside of QCD
[2:02:14 - 2:02:17] ▶
associated with the theta term
[2:02:17 - 2:02:19] ▶
can lead to something
[2:02:19 - 2:02:20] ▶
which has Einstein-like properties,
[2:02:20 - 2:02:22] ▶
which is that the differenti...
[2:02:23 - 2:02:24] ▶
That would be remarkable.
[2:02:24 - 2:02:24] ▶
That would be remarkable.
[2:02:24 - 2:02:25] ▶
That would be absolutely remarkable.
[2:02:25 - 2:02:26] ▶
The vacuum energy of QCD is tremendous.
[2:02:26 - 2:02:29] ▶
So let's get into vacuum energy
[2:02:29 - 2:02:32] ▶
and zero-point what the source of energy
[2:02:32 - 2:02:34] ▶
is for all of these things.
[2:02:34 - 2:02:35] ▶
I'm very turned off
[2:02:36 - 2:02:38] ▶
by certain attempts to mine...
[2:02:38 - 2:02:41] ▶
Like, if you look at
[2:02:42 - 2:02:44] ▶
the Heisenberg uncertainty relations,
[2:02:44 - 2:02:45] ▶
one of the great innovations in our time
[2:02:46 - 2:02:48] ▶
is that they've been associated
[2:02:48 - 2:02:50] ▶
to the symplectic form on phase space
[2:02:50 - 2:02:54] ▶
in ordinarily classical Hamiltonian dynamics.
[2:02:54 - 2:02:57] ▶
In other words, you take the space
[2:02:57 - 2:03:00] ▶
of configurations of a mug on a table,
[2:03:00 - 2:03:02] ▶
then you add the momenta,
[2:03:02 - 2:03:06] ▶
so that doubles the space,
[2:03:06 - 2:03:07] ▶
its size to go from configuration space
[2:03:08 - 2:03:11] ▶
to phase space,
[2:03:11 - 2:03:12] ▶
position to position and momenta.
[2:03:12 - 2:03:14] ▶
On that space,
[2:03:14 - 2:03:15] ▶
there's a guaranteed object
[2:03:16 - 2:03:17] ▶
called the symplectic form
[2:03:17 - 2:03:19] ▶
that comes just out of the math.
[2:03:19 - 2:03:20] ▶
The big innovation was to say,
[2:03:20 - 2:03:23] ▶
you know,
[2:03:23 - 2:03:24] ▶
that thing is actually
[2:03:24 - 2:03:27] ▶
at the base of a different structure
[2:03:27 - 2:03:30] ▶
called a line bundle,
[2:03:30 - 2:03:31] ▶
and it's the curvature tensor
[2:03:31 - 2:03:33] ▶
for this line bundle
[2:03:33 - 2:03:34] ▶
with a connection
[2:03:34 - 2:03:35] ▶
whose sections form the Hilbert space
[2:03:35 - 2:03:38] ▶
in quantization.
[2:03:38 - 2:03:40] ▶
Effectively, in a certain sense...
[2:03:40 - 2:03:42] ▶
Do you mean fiber bundle?
[2:03:42 - 2:03:43] ▶
Well, yeah, it's a line bundle, exactly.
[2:03:44 - 2:03:46] ▶
That that line bundle,
[2:03:46 - 2:03:47] ▶
it's L2 sections properly taken,
[2:03:47 - 2:03:50] ▶
polarized,
[2:03:50 - 2:03:51] ▶
there's a whole rigmarole,
[2:03:51 - 2:03:52] ▶
sort of self-quantize the manifold.
[2:03:52 - 2:03:56] ▶
In other words,
[2:03:56 - 2:03:57] ▶
that the classical mechanics
[2:03:57 - 2:04:00] ▶
leads naturally to the quantum theory
[2:04:00 - 2:04:04] ▶
when you realize
[2:04:04 - 2:04:04] ▶
it's not an isolated degree 2 object,
[2:04:04 - 2:04:07] ▶
but a degree 2 object
[2:04:07 - 2:04:08] ▶
that comes as the curvature
[2:04:08 - 2:04:09] ▶
of something else
[2:04:09 - 2:04:10] ▶
that we had not thought to study.
[2:04:10 - 2:04:12] ▶
If you try to...
[2:04:13 - 2:04:14] ▶
If that's the source
[2:04:14 - 2:04:15] ▶
of the Heisenberg uncertainty relations,
[2:04:15 - 2:04:16] ▶
that's a curvature
[2:04:16 - 2:04:17] ▶
you can't get rid of.
[2:04:17 - 2:04:19] ▶
So if you try to mine it,
[2:04:20 - 2:04:22] ▶
I don't really see
[2:04:22 - 2:04:23] ▶
how you extract
[2:04:23 - 2:04:24] ▶
from something
[2:04:24 - 2:04:27] ▶
that can't be lessened.
[2:04:27 - 2:04:29] ▶
On the other hand,
[2:04:29 - 2:04:30] ▶
were you to try
[2:04:31 - 2:04:31] ▶
to tap into the dark energy,
[2:04:31 - 2:04:33] ▶
if that is in fact a VEV,
[2:04:33 - 2:04:35] ▶
a vacuum expectation value,
[2:04:35 - 2:04:37] ▶
rather than a hard constant,
[2:04:37 - 2:04:38] ▶
could that be used
[2:04:39 - 2:04:41] ▶
as a on-demand power source?
[2:04:41 - 2:04:43] ▶
Sure, could be.
[2:04:44 - 2:04:44] ▶
Do you work on that at all?
[2:04:44 - 2:04:46] ▶
No, but I looked at people
[2:04:47 - 2:04:49] ▶
who've sent me
[2:04:49 - 2:04:50] ▶
their ruminations on that idea,
[2:04:50 - 2:04:52] ▶
and it looked pretty intelligent,
[2:04:52 - 2:04:54] ▶
but it wasn't very well-developed,
[2:04:54 - 2:04:56] ▶
in my opinion.
[2:04:56 - 2:04:56] ▶
So I think that would be
[2:04:56 - 2:04:58] ▶
a great direction to go,
[2:04:58 - 2:05:00] ▶
and I like where you're going here.
[2:05:00 - 2:05:01] ▶
I'm just trying to be constructive.
[2:05:02 - 2:05:03] ▶
Let me try another one.
[2:05:03 - 2:05:04] ▶
Yeah, I like where you're going.
[2:05:04 - 2:05:04] ▶
I think you pointed out
[2:05:04 - 2:05:05] ▶
some stuff I'm not aware of,
[2:05:05 - 2:05:06] ▶
other than the dark energy aspect,
[2:05:07 - 2:05:09] ▶
which I'm already aware of,
[2:05:09 - 2:05:10] ▶
which need to be followed up on.
[2:05:10 - 2:05:12] ▶
Imagine for the moment
[2:05:13 - 2:05:14] ▶
that you embed
[2:05:14 - 2:05:16] ▶
what we currently call space-time
[2:05:16 - 2:05:18] ▶
in its space of all point-wise
[2:05:18 - 2:05:20] ▶
Lorentzian metrics,
[2:05:20 - 2:05:22] ▶
so every way you could possibly have
[2:05:22 - 2:05:24] ▶
of measuring length and angle
[2:05:24 - 2:05:25] ▶
through a series of three rulers,
[2:05:25 - 2:05:28] ▶
one watch,
[2:05:28 - 2:05:29] ▶
and six protractors.
[2:05:29 - 2:05:30] ▶
That's a 14-dimensional object
[2:05:30 - 2:05:35] ▶
that I work with on a daily basis
[2:05:35 - 2:05:37] ▶
that I call the observers.
[2:05:37 - 2:05:38] ▶
We don't have to get too far into this,
[2:05:38 - 2:05:40] ▶
but the point that I want to make
[2:05:40 - 2:05:41] ▶
is the following.
[2:05:41 - 2:05:42] ▶
There are ways of traveling
[2:05:43 - 2:05:45] ▶
through time and space,
[2:05:45 - 2:05:47] ▶
and I want to say also
[2:05:47 - 2:05:48] ▶
that time really should always be times
[2:05:48 - 2:05:50] ▶
because the number of actual temporal dimensions
[2:05:50 - 2:05:53] ▶
we currently think is one,
[2:05:53 - 2:05:54] ▶
but it doesn't need to be one.
[2:05:54 - 2:05:56] ▶
I agree.
[2:05:56 - 2:05:57] ▶
Okay.
[2:05:57 - 2:05:57] ▶
Okay.
[2:05:58 - 2:05:58] ▶
We talk a lot about entanglement.
[2:06:00 - 2:06:02] ▶
We talk a lot about wormholes.
[2:06:02 - 2:06:04] ▶
We don't talk about pinch to zoom.
[2:06:05 - 2:06:07] ▶
We don't talk about what?
[2:06:07 - 2:06:08] ▶
Pinch to zoom.
[2:06:09 - 2:06:10] ▶
Imagine that you pointed
[2:06:11 - 2:06:12] ▶
at a star that you wanted to visit,
[2:06:12 - 2:06:15] ▶
and imagine that you could find
[2:06:15 - 2:06:17] ▶
some way of traveling
[2:06:17 - 2:06:19] ▶
in 10 transverse dimensions.
[2:06:19 - 2:06:21] ▶
Okay.
[2:06:21 - 2:06:22] ▶
Where what you're doing
[2:06:23 - 2:06:24] ▶
is growing the ruler
[2:06:24 - 2:06:26] ▶
in the direction between you
[2:06:26 - 2:06:28] ▶
and that star.
[2:06:28 - 2:06:28] ▶
Okay.
[2:06:30 - 2:06:30] ▶
Now, once the ruler says one foot,
[2:06:30 - 2:06:33] ▶
you need the energy to walk one foot,
[2:06:33 - 2:06:36] ▶
not the energy to walk four light years.
[2:06:36 - 2:06:39] ▶
Right.
[2:06:39 - 2:06:39] ▶
And then you have to put the ruler back,
[2:06:40 - 2:06:42] ▶
so you have to shrink the ruler
[2:06:42 - 2:06:43] ▶
to grow the distance
[2:06:43 - 2:06:45] ▶
after you've grown the ruler
[2:06:45 - 2:06:46] ▶
to shrink the distance.
[2:06:46 - 2:06:47] ▶
Okay.
[2:06:47 - 2:06:47] ▶
So the idea is that
[2:06:48 - 2:06:48] ▶
this is something like pinch to zoom,
[2:06:48 - 2:06:50] ▶
which doesn't work on an ordinary table,
[2:06:50 - 2:06:52] ▶
but if this was a smart table,
[2:06:53 - 2:06:54] ▶
it would be what's called
[2:06:54 - 2:06:57] ▶
a multi-touch gesture.
[2:06:57 - 2:06:58] ▶
Have you thought about
[2:06:58 - 2:07:01] ▶
whether multi-touch gestures
[2:07:01 - 2:07:02] ▶
like pinch to zoom
[2:07:02 - 2:07:04] ▶
or another one that I call
[2:07:04 - 2:07:05] ▶
sheer to tilt
[2:07:05 - 2:07:06] ▶
might be built into the object
[2:07:06 - 2:07:08] ▶
that we confuse for space-time?
[2:07:08 - 2:07:09] ▶
It sounds plausible.
[2:07:09 - 2:07:11] ▶
I like that.
[2:07:11 - 2:07:12] ▶
I've seen hints of something like that
[2:07:13 - 2:07:15] ▶
in some books I've read
[2:07:15 - 2:07:16] ▶
back in the 90s,
[2:07:16 - 2:07:18] ▶
very small hints of it,
[2:07:18 - 2:07:20] ▶
and I thought there was something to it
[2:07:20 - 2:07:23] ▶
that I just didn't follow up on.
[2:07:23 - 2:07:24] ▶
Yeah.
[2:07:25 - 2:07:26] ▶
I would say that makes sense.
[2:07:26 - 2:07:28] ▶
That makes sense to me.
[2:07:28 - 2:07:29] ▶
Yeah.
[2:07:29 - 2:07:31] ▶
That's a very interesting idea.
[2:07:33 - 2:07:34] ▶
Do you think much about dark chemistry?
[2:07:35 - 2:07:39] ▶
About which?
[2:07:39 - 2:07:40] ▶
Dark chemistry.
[2:07:41 - 2:07:42] ▶
Dark chemistry.
[2:07:42 - 2:07:43] ▶
Like chemistry with dark matter.
[2:07:43 - 2:07:44] ▶
No, I don't.
[2:07:45 - 2:07:45] ▶
I see.
[2:07:48 - 2:07:49] ▶
I haven't seen anybody
[2:07:49 - 2:07:51] ▶
use that phrase before.
[2:07:51 - 2:07:54] ▶
Supposedly dark matter
[2:07:55 - 2:07:56] ▶
doesn't interact with
[2:07:56 - 2:07:58] ▶
regular matter,
[2:07:58 - 2:08:00] ▶
especially at the
[2:08:00 - 2:08:01] ▶
electromagnetic force level.
[2:08:01 - 2:08:02] ▶
Well, that's what we mean
[2:08:03 - 2:08:04] ▶
largely by dark, right?
[2:08:04 - 2:08:06] ▶
Yeah.
[2:08:06 - 2:08:06] ▶
Because you can't see it.
[2:08:06 - 2:08:07] ▶
There's no luminosity involved.
[2:08:07 - 2:08:10] ▶
No exchange of photons
[2:08:10 - 2:08:11] ▶
that we can visibly see
[2:08:11 - 2:08:12] ▶
and collect a spectrum for.
[2:08:13 - 2:08:14] ▶
Well, we sort of have
[2:08:15 - 2:08:16] ▶
three long-range carriers.
[2:08:16 - 2:08:18] ▶
We have light, we have gravity,
[2:08:18 - 2:08:19] ▶
and we have neutrinos
[2:08:19 - 2:08:21] ▶
that we know about.
[2:08:21 - 2:08:23] ▶
But let me ask you about
[2:08:23 - 2:08:24] ▶
a weird phrase
[2:08:24 - 2:08:26] ▶
that I keep hearing
[2:08:26 - 2:08:26] ▶
that I don't understand.
[2:08:26 - 2:08:27] ▶
I keep hearing about
[2:08:27 - 2:08:28] ▶
interdimensional beings,
[2:08:28 - 2:08:30] ▶
which causes me
[2:08:30 - 2:08:30] ▶
to want to throw up in my mouth.
[2:08:30 - 2:08:32] ▶
People, I think that's colloquial.
[2:08:32 - 2:08:34] ▶
Do you know what they're?
[2:08:35 - 2:08:36] ▶
Interdimensional means
[2:08:36 - 2:08:37] ▶
you're going between dimensions.
[2:08:37 - 2:08:38] ▶
So I don't understand
[2:08:38 - 2:08:40] ▶
the word interdimensional beings.
[2:08:40 - 2:08:42] ▶
I think it's really
[2:08:42 - 2:08:42] ▶
beings that could
[2:08:42 - 2:08:44] ▶
transverse other dimensions
[2:08:44 - 2:08:46] ▶
or traverse other dimensions.
[2:08:46 - 2:08:48] ▶
Does it mean something
[2:08:48 - 2:08:49] ▶
technical that's being
[2:08:49 - 2:08:50] ▶
that's interdimensional?
[2:08:50 - 2:08:51] ▶
Again, let's...
[2:08:52 - 2:08:53] ▶
We move through
[2:08:53 - 2:08:54] ▶
three spatial dimensions,
[2:08:54 - 2:08:56] ▶
so that makes us
[2:08:56 - 2:08:57] ▶
interdimensional already.
[2:08:57 - 2:08:58] ▶
Okay.
[2:08:58 - 2:08:58] ▶
And we move through time
[2:08:58 - 2:08:59] ▶
allegedly in one direction.
[2:08:59 - 2:09:01] ▶
So David Grush, I believe,
[2:09:01 - 2:09:02] ▶
used this phrase in a hearing.
[2:09:03 - 2:09:04] ▶
And he talked about holography.
[2:09:05 - 2:09:06] ▶
Yeah, Dave's not a physicist.
[2:09:07 - 2:09:08] ▶
I understand that.
[2:09:08 - 2:09:10] ▶
So what I'm trying to...
[2:09:10 - 2:09:11] ▶
Look, again,
[2:09:11 - 2:09:11] ▶
the point isn't to say
[2:09:11 - 2:09:13] ▶
whether somebody knows
[2:09:13 - 2:09:14] ▶
what they're talking about.
[2:09:14 - 2:09:15] ▶
But to say,
[2:09:15 - 2:09:17] ▶
assume that somebody does...
[2:09:17 - 2:09:18] ▶
Assume that the plumber
[2:09:18 - 2:09:20] ▶
comes to you and says,
[2:09:20 - 2:09:22] ▶
wow, I was just at
[2:09:22 - 2:09:23] ▶
at some crazy base.
[2:09:23 - 2:09:24] ▶
And I don't even know
[2:09:24 - 2:09:25] ▶
what these words mean,
[2:09:25 - 2:09:26] ▶
but here's what I heard.
[2:09:26 - 2:09:27] ▶
Right?
[2:09:28 - 2:09:28] ▶
So very often,
[2:09:28 - 2:09:29] ▶
I'm just trying to...
[2:09:29 - 2:09:30] ▶
I don't care about...
[2:09:30 - 2:09:31] ▶
Yeah, I think he's heard that
[2:09:31 - 2:09:32] ▶
from his briefings given to...
[2:09:32 - 2:09:35] ▶
From the briefings given to him
[2:09:35 - 2:09:36] ▶
on the crash retrieval program.
[2:09:36 - 2:09:37] ▶
I just...
[2:09:38 - 2:09:38] ▶
You know, he can't tell me
[2:09:39 - 2:09:40] ▶
that level of information
[2:09:40 - 2:09:42] ▶
at the classified level
[2:09:42 - 2:09:43] ▶
because I'm not cleared for it.
[2:09:43 - 2:09:44] ▶
Are you?
[2:09:44 - 2:09:44] ▶
He can verbally,
[2:09:44 - 2:09:45] ▶
on a superficial level,
[2:09:46 - 2:09:47] ▶
discuss it in the open,
[2:09:48 - 2:09:50] ▶
but I don't know what he...
[2:09:50 - 2:09:52] ▶
It sounds like he's garbling
[2:09:52 - 2:09:53] ▶
stuff at times, so...
[2:09:53 - 2:09:55] ▶
And if we had an adversary
[2:09:55 - 2:09:56] ▶
that was aware
[2:09:56 - 2:09:58] ▶
of multiple temporal dimensions
[2:09:58 - 2:10:00] ▶
where we're only aware of one,
[2:10:00 - 2:10:03] ▶
so we have an arrow of time
[2:10:03 - 2:10:04] ▶
and they would have...
[2:10:04 - 2:10:05] ▶
Multiple.
[2:10:05 - 2:10:05] ▶
Like a right-hand rule of time.
[2:10:06 - 2:10:07] ▶
It would be a...
[2:10:08 - 2:10:08] ▶
Have you thought much
[2:10:08 - 2:10:10] ▶
about the threat assessment
[2:10:10 - 2:10:11] ▶
as to what capabilities
[2:10:11 - 2:10:13] ▶
a...
[2:10:13 - 2:10:14] ▶
An advanced...
[2:10:14 - 2:10:16] ▶
No, nobody does threat
[2:10:16 - 2:10:17] ▶
assessments like that,
[2:10:17 - 2:10:18] ▶
but I would say
[2:10:18 - 2:10:19] ▶
that is a subpoena
[2:10:19 - 2:10:20] ▶
worth having a threat
[2:10:20 - 2:10:21] ▶
assessment done on.
[2:10:21 - 2:10:23] ▶
And have you...
[2:10:25 - 2:10:26] ▶
Are you aware of reports
[2:10:26 - 2:10:29] ▶
that we are being...
[2:10:29 - 2:10:32] ▶
I wouldn't say menaced,
[2:10:32 - 2:10:34] ▶
but...
[2:10:34 - 2:10:35] ▶
Monitor?
[2:10:35 - 2:10:37] ▶
Made to know
[2:10:38 - 2:10:39] ▶
that we do not control
[2:10:39 - 2:10:40] ▶
our space?
[2:10:40 - 2:10:40] ▶
Yes.
[2:10:41 - 2:10:41] ▶
Do you find that
[2:10:42 - 2:10:42] ▶
highly credible?
[2:10:42 - 2:10:43] ▶
Yes.
[2:10:43 - 2:10:44] ▶
What percentage?
[2:10:45 - 2:10:46] ▶
A hundred...
[2:10:46 - 2:10:47] ▶
Because it was definitive.
[2:10:47 - 2:10:48] ▶
It was...
[2:10:48 - 2:10:48] ▶
That was told to me
[2:10:48 - 2:10:50] ▶
definitively,
[2:10:50 - 2:10:51] ▶
not speculatively.
[2:10:51 - 2:10:52] ▶
It was...
[2:10:52 - 2:10:53] ▶
We know this to be true.
[2:10:53 - 2:10:54] ▶
So I've been told
[2:10:54 - 2:10:55] ▶
the same thing
[2:10:55 - 2:10:56] ▶
by multiple parties
[2:10:56 - 2:10:57] ▶
who are not related,
[2:10:57 - 2:10:58] ▶
all of whom
[2:10:58 - 2:10:59] ▶
seem like credible people.
[2:10:59 - 2:11:00] ▶
Yet nobody seems
[2:11:01 - 2:11:02] ▶
to have direct
[2:11:02 - 2:11:03] ▶
first-hand...
[2:11:03 - 2:11:06] ▶
Yeah.
[2:11:06 - 2:11:06] ▶
Even I can't
[2:11:07 - 2:11:08] ▶
get into that level.
[2:11:08 - 2:11:09] ▶
I mean,
[2:11:09 - 2:11:09] ▶
Harry Reid tried
[2:11:09 - 2:11:10] ▶
to get a special access
[2:11:10 - 2:11:11] ▶
program and he failed
[2:11:11 - 2:11:12] ▶
because Deputy
[2:11:12 - 2:11:13] ▶
Secretary of Defense
[2:11:13 - 2:11:14] ▶
William Lynn
[2:11:14 - 2:11:15] ▶
denied it.
[2:11:15 - 2:11:16] ▶
And that was because
[2:11:16 - 2:11:17] ▶
Harry Reid did it
[2:11:17 - 2:11:18] ▶
the wrong way.
[2:11:18 - 2:11:19] ▶
He did it the wrong way
[2:11:19 - 2:11:20] ▶
and that's why
[2:11:20 - 2:11:21] ▶
it got denied.
[2:11:21 - 2:11:21] ▶
If we did it
[2:11:21 - 2:11:22] ▶
the proper way,
[2:11:22 - 2:11:23] ▶
which I'm trained on,
[2:11:23 - 2:11:24] ▶
in the security apparatus,
[2:11:24 - 2:11:26] ▶
we would have been
[2:11:26 - 2:11:28] ▶
more successful.
[2:11:28 - 2:11:28] ▶
Do you remember
[2:11:29 - 2:11:30] ▶
Dick Feynman's
[2:11:30 - 2:11:31] ▶
book of stories
[2:11:31 - 2:11:32] ▶
like,
[2:11:32 - 2:11:32] ▶
Surely You're Joking
[2:11:32 - 2:11:33] ▶
and What Do You Care
[2:11:33 - 2:11:34] ▶
What Other People Think?
[2:11:34 - 2:11:35] ▶
Oh, yeah.
[2:11:35 - 2:11:36] ▶
It's been a long time
[2:11:36 - 2:11:38] ▶
since I remember...
[2:11:38 - 2:11:38] ▶
Do you remember a story
[2:11:38 - 2:11:38] ▶
called Any Questions
[2:11:38 - 2:11:40] ▶
in which he goes
[2:11:40 - 2:11:41] ▶
to Buffalo, New York
[2:11:41 - 2:11:42] ▶
because as a physics
[2:11:42 - 2:11:44] ▶
professor at Cornell,
[2:11:44 - 2:11:45] ▶
he has to teach
[2:11:46 - 2:11:47] ▶
in an aerospace company?
[2:11:47 - 2:11:49] ▶
Yeah, vaguely.
[2:11:49 - 2:11:51] ▶
I vaguely remember that.
[2:11:51 - 2:11:51] ▶
So he gets beat up
[2:11:51 - 2:11:52] ▶
or something
[2:11:52 - 2:11:53] ▶
in a...
[2:11:53 - 2:11:54] ▶
in a washroom
[2:11:54 - 2:11:55] ▶
over a girl.
[2:11:55 - 2:11:56] ▶
I forget what.
[2:11:56 - 2:11:57] ▶
Do you have a sense
[2:11:58 - 2:11:59] ▶
what Richard Feynman
[2:11:59 - 2:12:00] ▶
was doing
[2:12:00 - 2:12:02] ▶
with all of this?
[2:12:02 - 2:12:03] ▶
Because he also has
[2:12:03 - 2:12:04] ▶
another weird story
[2:12:04 - 2:12:05] ▶
where he's got patents
[2:12:05 - 2:12:06] ▶
for nuclear submarines,
[2:12:06 - 2:12:08] ▶
nuclear planes,
[2:12:08 - 2:12:09] ▶
nuclear shopping,
[2:12:10 - 2:12:11] ▶
I don't know what.
[2:12:11 - 2:12:11] ▶
Are aerospace companies
[2:12:13 - 2:12:15] ▶
something that we don't understand
[2:12:15 - 2:12:16] ▶
where people actually
[2:12:16 - 2:12:17] ▶
did basic physics research,
[2:12:17 - 2:12:20] ▶
not material science,
[2:12:20 - 2:12:21] ▶
not something that's
[2:12:21 - 2:12:22] ▶
plane or rocket
[2:12:22 - 2:12:25] ▶
or drone adjacent,
[2:12:25 - 2:12:26] ▶
but where people
[2:12:27 - 2:12:28] ▶
were doing actual
[2:12:28 - 2:12:30] ▶
frontier research
[2:12:30 - 2:12:33] ▶
in fundamental physics?
[2:12:33 - 2:12:34] ▶
No, they wouldn't do that.
[2:12:35 - 2:12:36] ▶
Not in that...
[2:12:36 - 2:12:37] ▶
Not in that...
[2:12:37 - 2:12:38] ▶
So they wouldn't use it
[2:12:38 - 2:12:39] ▶
as a shell?
[2:12:39 - 2:12:40] ▶
No, they do
[2:12:40 - 2:12:41] ▶
applied physics research.
[2:12:41 - 2:12:43] ▶
They're developing
[2:12:43 - 2:12:45] ▶
technical solutions
[2:12:45 - 2:12:46] ▶
to the government
[2:12:46 - 2:12:47] ▶
customer's request
[2:12:47 - 2:12:48] ▶
to answer
[2:12:48 - 2:12:50] ▶
the government
[2:12:50 - 2:12:50] ▶
customer's need
[2:12:50 - 2:12:51] ▶
for a solution
[2:12:51 - 2:12:52] ▶
to some problem.
[2:12:52 - 2:12:53] ▶
So it doesn't go
[2:12:53 - 2:12:54] ▶
to fundamental physics
[2:12:54 - 2:12:55] ▶
like,
[2:12:55 - 2:12:56] ▶
should we worry
[2:12:56 - 2:12:57] ▶
about these type
[2:12:57 - 2:12:58] ▶
of quarks
[2:12:58 - 2:12:59] ▶
versus those type
[2:12:59 - 2:13:00] ▶
of quarks?
[2:13:00 - 2:13:00] ▶
No, no, no.
[2:13:00 - 2:13:01] ▶
They're looking at
[2:13:01 - 2:13:02] ▶
a physics that could
[2:13:02 - 2:13:03] ▶
be applied
[2:13:03 - 2:13:03] ▶
to the engineering
[2:13:03 - 2:13:04] ▶
of a technological solution
[2:13:04 - 2:13:06] ▶
for the government
[2:13:06 - 2:13:06] ▶
customer.
[2:13:06 - 2:13:07] ▶
That's what the
[2:13:07 - 2:13:08] ▶
aerospace industry does.
[2:13:08 - 2:13:09] ▶
Oh, I understand
[2:13:10 - 2:13:10] ▶
what it's supposed to do.
[2:13:10 - 2:13:11] ▶
What I'm trying to say is,
[2:13:12 - 2:13:13] ▶
is it a system
[2:13:13 - 2:13:14] ▶
of containers
[2:13:14 - 2:13:15] ▶
and you can put
[2:13:15 - 2:13:17] ▶
anything in a container?
[2:13:17 - 2:13:18] ▶
I mean, in other words,
[2:13:18 - 2:13:19] ▶
you could imagine
[2:13:19 - 2:13:20] ▶
that if a container
[2:13:20 - 2:13:21] ▶
was secure,
[2:13:21 - 2:13:22] ▶
you could put
[2:13:23 - 2:13:23] ▶
a drug laundering,
[2:13:23 - 2:13:25] ▶
you know,
[2:13:25 - 2:13:25] ▶
money laundering
[2:13:25 - 2:13:26] ▶
drug operation
[2:13:26 - 2:13:27] ▶
inside of it.
[2:13:27 - 2:13:28] ▶
We wouldn't think,
[2:13:28 - 2:13:28] ▶
oh, that's what
[2:13:29 - 2:13:29] ▶
you'd expect to find it.
[2:13:29 - 2:13:30] ▶
That it's like
[2:13:30 - 2:13:31] ▶
something crawled
[2:13:31 - 2:13:32] ▶
into that shell.
[2:13:32 - 2:13:33] ▶
My question is,
[2:13:33 - 2:13:34] ▶
is it possible
[2:13:35 - 2:13:36] ▶
that theoretical physics
[2:13:36 - 2:13:37] ▶
was sort of
[2:13:37 - 2:13:39] ▶
relocated
[2:13:39 - 2:13:40] ▶
into aerospace companies?
[2:13:40 - 2:13:43] ▶
Because this is a
[2:13:44 - 2:13:44] ▶
personally-
[2:13:44 - 2:13:45] ▶
I wouldn't say no to that.
[2:13:45 - 2:13:46] ▶
That's possible.
[2:13:46 - 2:13:47] ▶
That's possible.
[2:13:48 - 2:13:49] ▶
When we spoke
[2:13:49 - 2:13:50] ▶
to Hal Puthoff,
[2:13:50 - 2:13:50] ▶
he said,
[2:13:50 - 2:13:51] ▶
definitively,
[2:13:51 - 2:13:52] ▶
he said,
[2:13:52 - 2:13:52] ▶
you know,
[2:13:52 - 2:13:53] ▶
I'm not sure
[2:13:53 - 2:13:54] ▶
about fundamental physics
[2:13:54 - 2:13:55] ▶
being tied up
[2:13:55 - 2:13:56] ▶
in aerospace corporations,
[2:13:56 - 2:13:57] ▶
but he goes,
[2:13:57 - 2:13:58] ▶
topological physics,
[2:13:58 - 2:13:59] ▶
like, probably.
[2:13:59 - 2:14:00] ▶
And he said,
[2:14:01 - 2:14:01] ▶
it would seem to me
[2:14:01 - 2:14:03] ▶
that physics
[2:14:03 - 2:14:03] ▶
generally is held
[2:14:03 - 2:14:05] ▶
in these aerospace
[2:14:05 - 2:14:06] ▶
companies.
[2:14:06 - 2:14:07] ▶
And, you know,
[2:14:07 - 2:14:08] ▶
that was very,
[2:14:08 - 2:14:09] ▶
it made your sort
[2:14:09 - 2:14:09] ▶
of blood boil.
[2:14:09 - 2:14:10] ▶
Well,
[2:14:11 - 2:14:11] ▶
I worked for the
[2:14:11 - 2:14:12] ▶
aerospace corporation
[2:14:12 - 2:14:13] ▶
for four and a half years.
[2:14:13 - 2:14:14] ▶
I was one of only
[2:14:14 - 2:14:15] ▶
a dozen or so physicists
[2:14:15 - 2:14:19] ▶
with PhDs
[2:14:19 - 2:14:21] ▶
in the company.
[2:14:21 - 2:14:22] ▶
In El Segundo?
[2:14:22 - 2:14:23] ▶
10,000 employees.
[2:14:23 - 2:14:24] ▶
Which location?
[2:14:26 - 2:14:27] ▶
I was at Huntsville, Alabama.
[2:14:27 - 2:14:29] ▶
Okay.
[2:14:29 - 2:14:29] ▶
Because I was supporting
[2:14:30 - 2:14:31] ▶
the NASA Space Nuclear
[2:14:31 - 2:14:32] ▶
Propulsion Program office.
[2:14:32 - 2:14:33] ▶
So I was only one
[2:14:34 - 2:14:35] ▶
of maybe a dozen,
[2:14:35 - 2:14:36] ▶
maybe two.
[2:14:36 - 2:14:37] ▶
I don't think
[2:14:37 - 2:14:38] ▶
it was more than two,
[2:14:38 - 2:14:39] ▶
but definitely
[2:14:39 - 2:14:39] ▶
within two dozen
[2:14:39 - 2:14:40] ▶
PhD physicists
[2:14:40 - 2:14:42] ▶
in the whole country,
[2:14:42 - 2:14:43] ▶
in the whole company.
[2:14:43 - 2:14:44] ▶
And I'll have to tell you
[2:14:44 - 2:14:45] ▶
that not a single one,
[2:14:45 - 2:14:47] ▶
few of us
[2:14:47 - 2:14:48] ▶
were doing any physics.
[2:14:48 - 2:14:49] ▶
We were doing
[2:14:49 - 2:14:50] ▶
engineering work.
[2:14:50 - 2:14:51] ▶
And how many of you
[2:14:51 - 2:14:52] ▶
were trained
[2:14:52 - 2:14:52] ▶
in frontier theory?
[2:14:52 - 2:14:54] ▶
Frontier theory?
[2:14:55 - 2:14:56] ▶
What do you mean?
[2:14:57 - 2:14:57] ▶
Standard model in GR.
[2:14:57 - 2:14:59] ▶
Oh.
[2:14:59 - 2:15:00] ▶
How far back
[2:15:00 - 2:15:01] ▶
from the front lines
[2:15:01 - 2:15:02] ▶
were you guys?
[2:15:02 - 2:15:02] ▶
I knew those guys
[2:15:03 - 2:15:04] ▶
and none of them were.
[2:15:04 - 2:15:05] ▶
Some of them
[2:15:05 - 2:15:06] ▶
were trained
[2:15:06 - 2:15:07] ▶
in astrodynamics,
[2:15:07 - 2:15:08] ▶
so they know
[2:15:08 - 2:15:08] ▶
general relativity
[2:15:08 - 2:15:09] ▶
and Newtonian mechanics.
[2:15:09 - 2:15:11] ▶
I'm the only one
[2:15:12 - 2:15:13] ▶
I know of
[2:15:13 - 2:15:13] ▶
who's been trained
[2:15:13 - 2:15:14] ▶
on the standard model
[2:15:14 - 2:15:15] ▶
in GR.
[2:15:15 - 2:15:16] ▶
I didn't know
[2:15:16 - 2:15:17] ▶
any of those
[2:15:17 - 2:15:17] ▶
other guys that were.
[2:15:17 - 2:15:18] ▶
There's one guy
[2:15:18 - 2:15:19] ▶
at Blue Origin
[2:15:19 - 2:15:20] ▶
who went to my university,
[2:15:20 - 2:15:22] ▶
got his PhD
[2:15:22 - 2:15:23] ▶
in general relativity theory.
[2:15:23 - 2:15:24] ▶
Is that where?
[2:15:24 - 2:15:25] ▶
University of Arizona, Tucson?
[2:15:25 - 2:15:26] ▶
Ten years after
[2:15:26 - 2:15:27] ▶
I got my doctorate.
[2:15:27 - 2:15:28] ▶
Okay.
[2:15:29 - 2:15:29] ▶
And he's working
[2:15:29 - 2:15:30] ▶
as an engineer
[2:15:30 - 2:15:31] ▶
at Blue Origin.
[2:15:31 - 2:15:32] ▶
Okay.
[2:15:32 - 2:15:32] ▶
Last question.
[2:15:33 - 2:15:34] ▶
I can't wrap
[2:15:34 - 2:15:35] ▶
my head around this.
[2:15:35 - 2:15:37] ▶
If I was facing
[2:15:37 - 2:15:38] ▶
an incursion
[2:15:38 - 2:15:38] ▶
in my airspace
[2:15:38 - 2:15:39] ▶
claiming craft
[2:15:39 - 2:15:42] ▶
that defy
[2:15:42 - 2:15:42] ▶
the laws of physics
[2:15:42 - 2:15:43] ▶
and I didn't have
[2:15:43 - 2:15:44] ▶
a single top physicist
[2:15:44 - 2:15:46] ▶
on my team,
[2:15:46 - 2:15:48] ▶
I would expect
[2:15:48 - 2:15:50] ▶
to be fired instantly.
[2:15:50 - 2:15:51] ▶
Oh, sure.
[2:15:51 - 2:15:52] ▶
But that's not
[2:15:52 - 2:15:52] ▶
how they think.
[2:15:52 - 2:15:53] ▶
They don't think
[2:15:53 - 2:15:54] ▶
in terms of that.
[2:15:54 - 2:15:55] ▶
They're thinking
[2:15:55 - 2:15:55] ▶
in terms of their
[2:15:55 - 2:15:56] ▶
bottom line
[2:15:56 - 2:15:57] ▶
and their bottom line
[2:15:57 - 2:15:59] ▶
will not involve
[2:15:59 - 2:16:01] ▶
a theoretical physicist.
[2:16:01 - 2:16:02] ▶
They might have...
[2:16:02 - 2:16:03] ▶
Sorry.
[2:16:03 - 2:16:03] ▶
What?
[2:16:04 - 2:16:05] ▶
You have craft.
[2:16:05 - 2:16:06] ▶
The claim is you have...
[2:16:07 - 2:16:08] ▶
I know.
[2:16:08 - 2:16:08] ▶
They're engineers.
[2:16:08 - 2:16:09] ▶
Okay.
[2:16:09 - 2:16:09] ▶
But if you...
[2:16:09 - 2:16:10] ▶
They're not thinking
[2:16:10 - 2:16:10] ▶
in terms of fundamental physics
[2:16:10 - 2:16:12] ▶
or something beyond
[2:16:12 - 2:16:13] ▶
the standard model
[2:16:13 - 2:16:14] ▶
or something beyond
[2:16:14 - 2:16:15] ▶
generalist,
[2:16:15 - 2:16:15] ▶
if they're thinking...
[2:16:15 - 2:16:16] ▶
How are they doing
[2:16:16 - 2:16:17] ▶
on this project
[2:16:17 - 2:16:18] ▶
decades in?
[2:16:18 - 2:16:19] ▶
The supposed project.
[2:16:20 - 2:16:21] ▶
How are they doing on it?
[2:16:21 - 2:16:21] ▶
What's their level of success?
[2:16:22 - 2:16:23] ▶
All I know is,
[2:16:23 - 2:16:24] ▶
as of my knowledge...
[2:16:24 - 2:16:25] ▶
If you're failing
[2:16:25 - 2:16:26] ▶
at something
[2:16:26 - 2:16:26] ▶
that requires new physics,
[2:16:26 - 2:16:29] ▶
you say,
[2:16:29 - 2:16:29] ▶
defy the laws of physics.
[2:16:30 - 2:16:31] ▶
We can't make progress
[2:16:31 - 2:16:32] ▶
and we have no physicists.
[2:16:32 - 2:16:33] ▶
Correct.
[2:16:33 - 2:16:34] ▶
That's because they don't...
[2:16:34 - 2:16:34] ▶
David, this can't...
[2:16:34 - 2:16:35] ▶
Eric, this can't add up.
[2:16:35 - 2:16:38] ▶
It's a two-line proof.
[2:16:38 - 2:16:40] ▶
It defies the laws of physics.
[2:16:41 - 2:16:42] ▶
We haven't made progress.
[2:16:43 - 2:16:44] ▶
We have no physicists.
[2:16:44 - 2:16:45] ▶
Okay.
[2:16:47 - 2:16:47] ▶
If something defies
[2:16:47 - 2:16:48] ▶
the laws of physics,
[2:16:48 - 2:16:49] ▶
who do you call?
[2:16:49 - 2:16:50] ▶
I know...
[2:16:51 - 2:16:52] ▶
You ask any of us,
[2:16:52 - 2:16:54] ▶
any of us,
[2:16:54 - 2:16:55] ▶
write down 15 names
[2:16:56 - 2:16:57] ▶
of who you call
[2:16:57 - 2:16:58] ▶
if you had a craft
[2:16:58 - 2:16:58] ▶
that defied the laws of physics.
[2:16:58 - 2:17:00] ▶
Wait a second.
[2:17:00 - 2:17:00] ▶
12 of those names,
[2:17:01 - 2:17:02] ▶
10 of those names
[2:17:02 - 2:17:03] ▶
would be the same
[2:17:03 - 2:17:04] ▶
on everybody's list.
[2:17:04 - 2:17:05] ▶
Okay.
[2:17:05 - 2:17:05] ▶
The final thing
[2:17:07 - 2:17:08] ▶
I would say is
[2:17:08 - 2:17:10] ▶
if Hal Puthoff
[2:17:10 - 2:17:11] ▶
was telling us
[2:17:11 - 2:17:12] ▶
that some physics
[2:17:12 - 2:17:13] ▶
is held,
[2:17:13 - 2:17:13] ▶
whether it's...
[2:17:14 - 2:17:14] ▶
Even if it's just
[2:17:14 - 2:17:15] ▶
experimental physics,
[2:17:15 - 2:17:16] ▶
you have a bunch of people
[2:17:17 - 2:17:18] ▶
over the last 70 years,
[2:17:18 - 2:17:19] ▶
the foremost in my mind,
[2:17:19 - 2:17:21] ▶
Townsend Brown
[2:17:21 - 2:17:21] ▶
and, you know,
[2:17:21 - 2:17:23] ▶
this Ning Li
[2:17:23 - 2:17:24] ▶
at University of Alabama,
[2:17:24 - 2:17:25] ▶
Huntsville,
[2:17:26 - 2:17:26] ▶
saying that they're getting
[2:17:27 - 2:17:27] ▶
little weight reduction effects,
[2:17:27 - 2:17:29] ▶
gravitational shielding.
[2:17:29 - 2:17:30] ▶
Well, that's wrong.
[2:17:30 - 2:17:30] ▶
They didn't.
[2:17:30 - 2:17:31] ▶
They were incompetent.
[2:17:31 - 2:17:32] ▶
There is no weight reduction.
[2:17:33 - 2:17:34] ▶
So simultaneously,
[2:17:34 - 2:17:35] ▶
Hal's thing
[2:17:35 - 2:17:36] ▶
of there being...
[2:17:36 - 2:17:37] ▶
Look at the two chapters
[2:17:37 - 2:17:38] ▶
in my book
[2:17:38 - 2:17:39] ▶
on the Townsend-Brown effect.
[2:17:39 - 2:17:40] ▶
But there's the lead
[2:17:40 - 2:17:41] ▶
electrostatic scientist
[2:17:41 - 2:17:43] ▶
from NASA,
[2:17:43 - 2:17:43] ▶
Cape Kennedy,
[2:17:43 - 2:17:44] ▶
just left to start
[2:17:44 - 2:17:45] ▶
a private propellant-less
[2:17:45 - 2:17:46] ▶
propulsion company,
[2:17:46 - 2:17:47] ▶
and he says
[2:17:47 - 2:17:48] ▶
it's derivative
[2:17:48 - 2:17:49] ▶
of Townsend-Brown's effect.
[2:17:49 - 2:17:51] ▶
Those older papers
[2:17:51 - 2:17:52] ▶
and that older subject matter
[2:17:52 - 2:17:53] ▶
is probably valid
[2:17:53 - 2:17:55] ▶
for most of the point.
[2:17:55 - 2:17:56] ▶
For most...
[2:17:56 - 2:17:57] ▶
You know,
[2:17:57 - 2:17:57] ▶
it's unfair to say
[2:17:57 - 2:17:58] ▶
that it's not.
[2:17:58 - 2:17:59] ▶
However,
[2:17:59 - 2:18:00] ▶
without a theory back then
[2:18:00 - 2:18:02] ▶
to describe it,
[2:18:02 - 2:18:03] ▶
it was hard for them
[2:18:03 - 2:18:04] ▶
to miniaturize it,
[2:18:04 - 2:18:05] ▶
to optimize it,
[2:18:05 - 2:18:06] ▶
all of those things
[2:18:07 - 2:18:07] ▶
you want to do
[2:18:07 - 2:18:08] ▶
to make it a useful force.
[2:18:08 - 2:18:09] ▶
His name's Charles Bueller.
[2:18:10 - 2:18:11] ▶
Talking junk science.
[2:18:11 - 2:18:12] ▶
Even though he's
[2:18:12 - 2:18:13] ▶
the electrostatics guy?
[2:18:13 - 2:18:14] ▶
Yeah.
[2:18:14 - 2:18:14] ▶
And then the physics chair
[2:18:14 - 2:18:16] ▶
who is the lead
[2:18:16 - 2:18:18] ▶
of Ning Li's department
[2:18:18 - 2:18:19] ▶
left to join her company,
[2:18:19 - 2:18:20] ▶
Larry Smalley.
[2:18:21 - 2:18:21] ▶
Yeah,
[2:18:21 - 2:18:22] ▶
but she was wrong
[2:18:22 - 2:18:23] ▶
and so was he.
[2:18:23 - 2:18:24] ▶
Okay.
[2:18:24 - 2:18:24] ▶
Okay,
[2:18:24 - 2:18:25] ▶
and they made off
[2:18:25 - 2:18:26] ▶
with $400,000
[2:18:26 - 2:18:27] ▶
in Army research lab money
[2:18:27 - 2:18:28] ▶
and didn't produce
[2:18:28 - 2:18:29] ▶
a producible for it.
[2:18:29 - 2:18:30] ▶
They didn't deliver anything
[2:18:30 - 2:18:31] ▶
for that money.
[2:18:31 - 2:18:32] ▶
So the topological
[2:18:32 - 2:18:33] ▶
physics effects...
[2:18:33 - 2:18:34] ▶
Have you talked
[2:18:34 - 2:18:34] ▶
to Travis Taylor?
[2:18:34 - 2:18:35] ▶
He knew all of them.
[2:18:36 - 2:18:36] ▶
He knew English.
[2:18:36 - 2:18:37] ▶
So the topological...
[2:18:37 - 2:18:39] ▶
She's a rotten,
[2:18:39 - 2:18:39] ▶
terrible physicist.
[2:18:39 - 2:18:40] ▶
So the physics
[2:18:40 - 2:18:42] ▶
that are held
[2:18:42 - 2:18:42] ▶
in private aerospace,
[2:18:42 - 2:18:43] ▶
we just have to sort of guess.
[2:18:43 - 2:18:45] ▶
Like,
[2:18:45 - 2:18:45] ▶
there's no sense
[2:18:45 - 2:18:47] ▶
of what any
[2:18:47 - 2:18:48] ▶
of this stuff is,
[2:18:48 - 2:18:49] ▶
but they're also
[2:18:49 - 2:18:50] ▶
not putting any
[2:18:50 - 2:18:51] ▶
theoretical physicists,
[2:18:51 - 2:18:52] ▶
you know,
[2:18:53 - 2:18:53] ▶
like Eric's colleagues
[2:18:53 - 2:18:54] ▶
on any of this stuff.
[2:18:54 - 2:18:56] ▶
Like,
[2:18:56 - 2:18:56] ▶
it just feels sort of...
[2:18:56 - 2:18:57] ▶
Here's the thing.
[2:18:57 - 2:18:57] ▶
The government
[2:18:58 - 2:18:58] ▶
is going to tell
[2:18:58 - 2:18:59] ▶
the aerospace company,
[2:18:59 - 2:19:01] ▶
we...
[2:19:01 - 2:19:02] ▶
Okay,
[2:19:02 - 2:19:02] ▶
this is hypothetical,
[2:19:02 - 2:19:03] ▶
but this is how
[2:19:04 - 2:19:04] ▶
it works according
[2:19:04 - 2:19:05] ▶
to my two industry sources.
[2:19:05 - 2:19:08] ▶
Okay,
[2:19:09 - 2:19:10] ▶
the government says,
[2:19:10 - 2:19:11] ▶
here's the craft.
[2:19:11 - 2:19:12] ▶
We want to know
[2:19:13 - 2:19:14] ▶
how it works.
[2:19:14 - 2:19:15] ▶
The industry contractors
[2:19:15 - 2:19:17] ▶
say,
[2:19:17 - 2:19:18] ▶
okay,
[2:19:18 - 2:19:18] ▶
and they think
[2:19:19 - 2:19:19] ▶
in terms of engineering.
[2:19:19 - 2:19:21] ▶
We're not going to do
[2:19:21 - 2:19:23] ▶
fundamental physics.
[2:19:23 - 2:19:24] ▶
They might have
[2:19:24 - 2:19:25] ▶
experimental physics.
[2:19:25 - 2:19:26] ▶
It's not out of the realm
[2:19:26 - 2:19:27] ▶
to have an experimental
[2:19:27 - 2:19:28] ▶
physicist working there,
[2:19:28 - 2:19:29] ▶
but they're not
[2:19:29 - 2:19:30] ▶
theoretical guys.
[2:19:30 - 2:19:31] ▶
So,
[2:19:31 - 2:19:32] ▶
they'll have to know
[2:19:32 - 2:19:32] ▶
some theory,
[2:19:32 - 2:19:33] ▶
but they're mostly
[2:19:33 - 2:19:34] ▶
experimental.
[2:19:34 - 2:19:34] ▶
Hang on,
[2:19:34 - 2:19:35] ▶
hang on.
[2:19:35 - 2:19:35] ▶
So,
[2:19:36 - 2:19:36] ▶
they get the tasking
[2:19:36 - 2:19:38] ▶
that they've got
[2:19:38 - 2:19:39] ▶
to take apart a craft
[2:19:39 - 2:19:40] ▶
and they've got
[2:19:40 - 2:19:41] ▶
to figure out
[2:19:41 - 2:19:41] ▶
how it's made
[2:19:41 - 2:19:42] ▶
and how it's worked.
[2:19:42 - 2:19:43] ▶
That's how it works.
[2:19:43 - 2:19:45] ▶
That's it.
[2:19:45 - 2:19:45] ▶
That's the tasking.
[2:19:46 - 2:19:47] ▶
So,
[2:19:47 - 2:19:47] ▶
that leaves out
[2:19:47 - 2:19:48] ▶
any need
[2:19:48 - 2:19:50] ▶
for a theoretical physicist.
[2:19:50 - 2:19:51] ▶
They don't know
[2:19:51 - 2:19:52] ▶
that they would agree.
[2:19:52 - 2:19:53] ▶
Wait, wait.
[2:19:53 - 2:19:53] ▶
That made
[2:19:54 - 2:19:55] ▶
absolutely
[2:19:55 - 2:19:56] ▶
zero cents.
[2:19:56 - 2:19:57] ▶
That's how they operate.
[2:19:57 - 2:19:58] ▶
No, no, no, no.
[2:19:58 - 2:19:59] ▶
You said,
[2:19:59 - 2:19:59] ▶
but because of that,
[2:20:00 - 2:20:01] ▶
that's why they don't,
[2:20:01 - 2:20:03] ▶
no,
[2:20:03 - 2:20:03] ▶
you absolutely need
[2:20:03 - 2:20:04] ▶
a theoretical physicist
[2:20:04 - 2:20:05] ▶
if you're going to
[2:20:05 - 2:20:06] ▶
take apart a device.
[2:20:06 - 2:20:07] ▶
I don't disagree,
[2:20:07 - 2:20:08] ▶
but that's how they operate.
[2:20:08 - 2:20:09] ▶
That's what the program
[2:20:09 - 2:20:10] ▶
manager and the government
[2:20:10 - 2:20:11] ▶
says.
[2:20:11 - 2:20:12] ▶
So,
[2:20:12 - 2:20:12] ▶
the program manager
[2:20:12 - 2:20:13] ▶
and the company
[2:20:13 - 2:20:14] ▶
is going to say,
[2:20:14 - 2:20:14] ▶
okay,
[2:20:14 - 2:20:14] ▶
here's our solution
[2:20:14 - 2:20:16] ▶
to that problem.
[2:20:16 - 2:20:16] ▶
So,
[2:20:17 - 2:20:17] ▶
here's our bid.
[2:20:17 - 2:20:18] ▶
They get a sole source
[2:20:18 - 2:20:19] ▶
contract.
[2:20:19 - 2:20:20] ▶
No,
[2:20:21 - 2:20:21] ▶
there's no bid.
[2:20:21 - 2:20:22] ▶
It's a sole source contract.
[2:20:22 - 2:20:23] ▶
So,
[2:20:23 - 2:20:23] ▶
they get the sole source
[2:20:23 - 2:20:24] ▶
contract
[2:20:24 - 2:20:24] ▶
and they've already
[2:20:24 - 2:20:25] ▶
laid out what the
[2:20:25 - 2:20:26] ▶
tasking is to be done
[2:20:26 - 2:20:28] ▶
on that contract.
[2:20:28 - 2:20:29] ▶
And the tasking
[2:20:29 - 2:20:30] ▶
is to be done,
[2:20:30 - 2:20:31] ▶
that needs to be done,
[2:20:31 - 2:20:32] ▶
is the engineering
[2:20:32 - 2:20:33] ▶
to take this thing
[2:20:33 - 2:20:34] ▶
apart piece by piece,
[2:20:34 - 2:20:36] ▶
reverse engineer it,
[2:20:36 - 2:20:37] ▶
put it back together again
[2:20:37 - 2:20:38] ▶
and try to figure out
[2:20:38 - 2:20:39] ▶
if they can make it work
[2:20:39 - 2:20:40] ▶
or not
[2:20:40 - 2:20:40] ▶
and understand
[2:20:40 - 2:20:41] ▶
how that happens.
[2:20:41 - 2:20:42] ▶
And that's all they do.
[2:20:43 - 2:20:44] ▶
They don't have tasking
[2:20:44 - 2:20:46] ▶
to hire a theoretical physicist
[2:20:46 - 2:20:48] ▶
to sit there
[2:20:48 - 2:20:49] ▶
and start thinking
[2:20:49 - 2:20:50] ▶
about the standard model,
[2:20:50 - 2:20:52] ▶
beyond the standard model.
[2:20:52 - 2:20:53] ▶
they don't go there.
[2:20:53 - 2:20:54] ▶
They don't go there.
[2:20:55 - 2:20:56] ▶
These are engineering companies.
[2:20:56 - 2:20:57] ▶
They're not universities.
[2:20:57 - 2:20:58] ▶
And they don't even,
[2:20:58 - 2:21:00] ▶
aren't even allowed
[2:21:00 - 2:21:01] ▶
to talk to universities
[2:21:01 - 2:21:02] ▶
about this
[2:21:02 - 2:21:03] ▶
because of the compartmentalization
[2:21:03 - 2:21:05] ▶
is horrible.
[2:21:05 - 2:21:05] ▶
Sorry,
[2:21:06 - 2:21:06] ▶
if an iPhone fell
[2:21:06 - 2:21:08] ▶
into the hands
[2:21:08 - 2:21:10] ▶
of a villager
[2:21:10 - 2:21:11] ▶
in some far-flung
[2:21:11 - 2:21:13] ▶
developing country,
[2:21:13 - 2:21:15] ▶
the odds of a cobbler
[2:21:15 - 2:21:18] ▶
or a carpenter
[2:21:18 - 2:21:19] ▶
figuring out
[2:21:19 - 2:21:20] ▶
how an iPhone worked
[2:21:20 - 2:21:21] ▶
is negligible.
[2:21:21 - 2:21:24] ▶
Exactly.
[2:21:24 - 2:21:24] ▶
Okay?
[2:21:25 - 2:21:25] ▶
Exactly.
[2:21:25 - 2:21:26] ▶
So the same thing is true
[2:21:26 - 2:21:27] ▶
on your engineering.
[2:21:27 - 2:21:28] ▶
I mean, look,
[2:21:28 - 2:21:29] ▶
the Manhattan Project
[2:21:29 - 2:21:30] ▶
was an engineering project.
[2:21:30 - 2:21:32] ▶
There was a deliverable.
[2:21:32 - 2:21:33] ▶
It was a device.
[2:21:33 - 2:21:34] ▶
But they had to have physicists.
[2:21:35 - 2:21:37] ▶
For both projects.
[2:21:38 - 2:21:39] ▶
You're not giving me
[2:21:39 - 2:21:40] ▶
any understanding
[2:21:40 - 2:21:41] ▶
of why there were physicists
[2:21:41 - 2:21:43] ▶
in one and not the other.
[2:21:43 - 2:21:44] ▶
Wouldn't the same,
[2:21:44 - 2:21:45] ▶
even if you had a wrong...
[2:21:45 - 2:21:47] ▶
Sorry.
[2:21:47 - 2:21:47] ▶
It just doesn't make sense to you,
[2:21:48 - 2:21:49] ▶
Eric.
[2:21:49 - 2:21:49] ▶
That's just what
[2:21:50 - 2:21:51] ▶
all the evidence
[2:21:51 - 2:21:52] ▶
goes down to,
[2:21:52 - 2:21:53] ▶
comes down to,
[2:21:54 - 2:21:55] ▶
I should say.
[2:21:55 - 2:21:56] ▶
It's...
[2:21:56 - 2:21:57] ▶
I haven't met a...
[2:21:57 - 2:21:58] ▶
Well, I asked my sort,
[2:21:58 - 2:22:00] ▶
my senior VP,
[2:22:00 - 2:22:01] ▶
said,
[2:22:01 - 2:22:01] ▶
oh, we didn't have any physicists.
[2:22:01 - 2:22:02] ▶
They had Bernie Heisch
[2:22:03 - 2:22:04] ▶
working in that company.
[2:22:04 - 2:22:05] ▶
He is a physicist.
[2:22:05 - 2:22:06] ▶
He's an astrophysicist.
[2:22:06 - 2:22:07] ▶
He was a Max Planck Institute fellow.
[2:22:07 - 2:22:10] ▶
He was a fellow
[2:22:10 - 2:22:11] ▶
of that company.
[2:22:11 - 2:22:11] ▶
And he did astrophysics work
[2:22:12 - 2:22:13] ▶
because that company
[2:22:13 - 2:22:14] ▶
built spacecraft
[2:22:14 - 2:22:15] ▶
for NASA.
[2:22:15 - 2:22:16] ▶
But an alternate hypothesis
[2:22:17 - 2:22:18] ▶
is that this is
[2:22:18 - 2:22:20] ▶
a dummy program
[2:22:20 - 2:22:22] ▶
masking something.
[2:22:22 - 2:22:23] ▶
And the last thing
[2:22:23 - 2:22:24] ▶
that you would want
[2:22:24 - 2:22:25] ▶
ever on such a program
[2:22:25 - 2:22:26] ▶
is a physicist.
[2:22:26 - 2:22:28] ▶
Because the physicist
[2:22:28 - 2:22:29] ▶
is going to tear
[2:22:29 - 2:22:30] ▶
right through this thing
[2:22:30 - 2:22:31] ▶
and say,
[2:22:31 - 2:22:32] ▶
there is no
[2:22:32 - 2:22:34] ▶
Byfield-Brown effect here.
[2:22:34 - 2:22:35] ▶
Let me show you,
[2:22:35 - 2:22:36] ▶
you know,
[2:22:36 - 2:22:36] ▶
or whatever.
[2:22:36 - 2:22:37] ▶
So my claim is
[2:22:37 - 2:22:39] ▶
that avoidance
[2:22:39 - 2:22:41] ▶
of physicists
[2:22:41 - 2:22:44] ▶
might be necessary
[2:22:44 - 2:22:46] ▶
to keep a dummy program going
[2:22:46 - 2:22:48] ▶
just the way
[2:22:48 - 2:22:49] ▶
the presence of physicists
[2:22:49 - 2:22:50] ▶
was necessary
[2:22:50 - 2:22:51] ▶
to get a deliverable
[2:22:51 - 2:22:52] ▶
for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
[2:22:52 - 2:22:54] ▶
Interesting.
[2:22:54 - 2:22:54] ▶
Okay.
[2:22:55 - 2:22:55] ▶
Just on another note,
[2:22:56 - 2:22:57] ▶
the five people I knew of
[2:22:57 - 2:22:59] ▶
at that one legacy company,
[2:22:59 - 2:23:00] ▶
two of whom I met with
[2:23:01 - 2:23:02] ▶
and dined with
[2:23:02 - 2:23:03] ▶
and one of whom
[2:23:03 - 2:23:04] ▶
I met with routinely
[2:23:04 - 2:23:05] ▶
through the ASAP
[2:23:05 - 2:23:06] ▶
and after.
[2:23:06 - 2:23:07] ▶
So the woman
[2:23:09 - 2:23:11] ▶
was a mathematician,
[2:23:11 - 2:23:12] ▶
but she worked
[2:23:12 - 2:23:13] ▶
as a chief of security.
[2:23:13 - 2:23:15] ▶
There we go.
[2:23:16 - 2:23:16] ▶
The other one
[2:23:17 - 2:23:17] ▶
was a material scientist.
[2:23:17 - 2:23:18] ▶
Okay.
[2:23:19 - 2:23:19] ▶
That's a discipline
[2:23:19 - 2:23:20] ▶
in engineering.
[2:23:20 - 2:23:21] ▶
The other three
[2:23:21 - 2:23:22] ▶
were engineers.
[2:23:22 - 2:23:23] ▶
One of them
[2:23:23 - 2:23:24] ▶
was involved
[2:23:24 - 2:23:25] ▶
with the development
[2:23:25 - 2:23:26] ▶
of the F-117 fighter.
[2:23:26 - 2:23:27] ▶
And I don't know
[2:23:28 - 2:23:29] ▶
what the other guy's
[2:23:29 - 2:23:30] ▶
roles were,
[2:23:30 - 2:23:31] ▶
but they were all engineers.
[2:23:31 - 2:23:32] ▶
That's what they were
[2:23:32 - 2:23:33] ▶
described to me.
[2:23:33 - 2:23:34] ▶
And I said,
[2:23:34 - 2:23:34] ▶
no physicist.
[2:23:34 - 2:23:35] ▶
He said,
[2:23:35 - 2:23:35] ▶
no, not really.
[2:23:35 - 2:23:36] ▶
It's insane.
[2:23:37 - 2:23:37] ▶
Both you guys,
[2:23:37 - 2:23:38] ▶
what do you hope
[2:23:38 - 2:23:38] ▶
for the next year
[2:23:38 - 2:23:39] ▶
or two of disclosure?
[2:23:39 - 2:23:40] ▶
I mean,
[2:23:41 - 2:23:41] ▶
I think it's clear
[2:23:41 - 2:23:42] ▶
that you think
[2:23:42 - 2:23:43] ▶
the brain-dead way
[2:23:43 - 2:23:44] ▶
in which this is run
[2:23:44 - 2:23:45] ▶
without theoretical physics
[2:23:45 - 2:23:46] ▶
should change.
[2:23:46 - 2:23:47] ▶
I would like to meet
[2:23:47 - 2:23:48] ▶
adults on this project
[2:23:48 - 2:23:50] ▶
who are not grooved
[2:23:50 - 2:23:51] ▶
into thinking
[2:23:51 - 2:23:52] ▶
that we can just
[2:23:52 - 2:23:53] ▶
repeat things
[2:23:53 - 2:23:53] ▶
that never made any sense
[2:23:53 - 2:23:55] ▶
into the future
[2:23:55 - 2:23:56] ▶
as if they make sense.
[2:23:56 - 2:23:57] ▶
The idea
[2:23:57 - 2:23:58] ▶
that we are being visited
[2:23:58 - 2:24:00] ▶
by crafts
[2:24:00 - 2:24:01] ▶
that dominate our airspace
[2:24:01 - 2:24:04] ▶
that we cannot understand
[2:24:04 - 2:24:05] ▶
do not know their origin,
[2:24:05 - 2:24:07] ▶
defy the laws of physics,
[2:24:07 - 2:24:08] ▶
and we avoid
[2:24:08 - 2:24:09] ▶
the one specialty
[2:24:09 - 2:24:10] ▶
that could help us
[2:24:10 - 2:24:11] ▶
at all costs
[2:24:11 - 2:24:12] ▶
and that this makes sense
[2:24:12 - 2:24:13] ▶
to anyone
[2:24:13 - 2:24:14] ▶
is a fairy tale
[2:24:14 - 2:24:16] ▶
that should not be...
[2:24:16 - 2:24:18] ▶
I think that a mentally
[2:24:18 - 2:24:19] ▶
retarded golden retriever
[2:24:19 - 2:24:20] ▶
should not repeat
[2:24:20 - 2:24:21] ▶
this fairy tale.
[2:24:21 - 2:24:22] ▶
Dr. Davis,
[2:24:23 - 2:24:23] ▶
what do you hope for
[2:24:24 - 2:24:25] ▶
over the next few years?
[2:24:25 - 2:24:27] ▶
Well, I'm actually...
[2:24:27 - 2:24:29] ▶
What's the word?
[2:24:29 - 2:24:30] ▶
I don't want to say I'm...
[2:24:30 - 2:24:33] ▶
I'm looking for a negative term here,
[2:24:33 - 2:24:36] ▶
and I'm not enthusiastic.
[2:24:37 - 2:24:40] ▶
Well, it's not enthusiastic.
[2:24:40 - 2:24:41] ▶
That's not the word.
[2:24:42 - 2:24:42] ▶
I think the Presidential
[2:24:43 - 2:24:44] ▶
Emergency Action Directives
[2:24:44 - 2:24:45] ▶
are so strict.
[2:24:45 - 2:24:46] ▶
They were instituted
[2:24:47 - 2:24:48] ▶
in the White House administration,
[2:24:48 - 2:24:49] ▶
in the Eisenhower
[2:24:49 - 2:24:50] ▶
White House administration.
[2:24:50 - 2:24:51] ▶
So Eisenhower instituted that,
[2:24:52 - 2:24:54] ▶
and that's been carried forward
[2:24:54 - 2:24:55] ▶
on many different topics,
[2:24:55 - 2:24:57] ▶
but specifically,
[2:24:57 - 2:24:58] ▶
Jim Semivan and I know
[2:24:58 - 2:24:59] ▶
that they were instituted
[2:24:59 - 2:25:00] ▶
for this topic
[2:25:00 - 2:25:01] ▶
that we've been discussing.
[2:25:01 - 2:25:02] ▶
So I am not hopeful...
[2:25:03 - 2:25:06] ▶
I guess that's the word
[2:25:06 - 2:25:06] ▶
I'm looking for.
[2:25:06 - 2:25:07] ▶
I'm not hopeful
[2:25:07 - 2:25:08] ▶
that there will be
[2:25:08 - 2:25:10] ▶
meaningful disclosure
[2:25:10 - 2:25:11] ▶
because of the Presidential
[2:25:11 - 2:25:13] ▶
Emergency Action Directives,
[2:25:13 - 2:25:14] ▶
and I'm also not hopeful
[2:25:15 - 2:25:16] ▶
because I don't think
[2:25:16 - 2:25:17] ▶
that this topic
[2:25:17 - 2:25:18] ▶
has risen to a level
[2:25:18 - 2:25:19] ▶
of urgency in the White House
[2:25:19 - 2:25:21] ▶
as the Epstein files have.
[2:25:21 - 2:25:23] ▶
And the retribution
[2:25:23 - 2:25:25] ▶
that Trump wants to execute
[2:25:25 - 2:25:27] ▶
against his political enemies,
[2:25:27 - 2:25:29] ▶
those are at the top.
[2:25:30 - 2:25:32] ▶
He's got his economic agenda,
[2:25:32 - 2:25:34] ▶
he's got his foreign policy agenda,
[2:25:34 - 2:25:35] ▶
tariffs and all that.
[2:25:36 - 2:25:36] ▶
Disclosure of UAPs
[2:25:37 - 2:25:39] ▶
at this level,
[2:25:39 - 2:25:40] ▶
it's just not rising to the top.
[2:25:40 - 2:25:42] ▶
That's your prognosis,
[2:25:42 - 2:25:43] ▶
but your hope is that
[2:25:43 - 2:25:44] ▶
we get full transparency
[2:25:44 - 2:25:47] ▶
on this issue
[2:25:47 - 2:25:47] ▶
outside of national security
[2:25:47 - 2:25:49] ▶
trade secrets.
[2:25:49 - 2:25:50] ▶
I'm hoping that he and I
[2:25:50 - 2:25:50] ▶
could get the keys to the door
[2:25:50 - 2:25:52] ▶
with Hal,
[2:25:52 - 2:25:53] ▶
and we can walk in
[2:25:53 - 2:25:54] ▶
and we can talk to people
[2:25:54 - 2:25:55] ▶
and say,
[2:25:55 - 2:25:55] ▶
where the fuck are your physicists?
[2:25:56 - 2:25:57] ▶
Or we can say,
[2:25:58 - 2:25:59] ▶
we're going to volunteer our time,
[2:25:59 - 2:26:01] ▶
or you can pay us
[2:26:01 - 2:26:02] ▶
to work for you.
[2:26:02 - 2:26:03] ▶
I would love for both of us
[2:26:04 - 2:26:05] ▶
with Hal and some others
[2:26:05 - 2:26:07] ▶
to be able to go in
[2:26:07 - 2:26:08] ▶
and take a look at the hardware,
[2:26:08 - 2:26:09] ▶
see it ourselves.
[2:26:10 - 2:26:10] ▶
I've heard physical descriptions
[2:26:11 - 2:26:13] ▶
from Jim Lekatsky.
[2:26:13 - 2:26:14] ▶
Who said that he breached
[2:26:15 - 2:26:16] ▶
the hull
[2:26:16 - 2:26:16] ▶
and walked inside of a UFO.
[2:26:16 - 2:26:18] ▶
Yeah.
[2:26:18 - 2:26:18] ▶
And you believe him.
[2:26:19 - 2:26:19] ▶
Yeah,
[2:26:20 - 2:26:20] ▶
because there's no reason
[2:26:20 - 2:26:21] ▶
not to.
[2:26:21 - 2:26:22] ▶
You told us,
[2:26:22 - 2:26:22] ▶
because you were allowed
[2:26:23 - 2:26:23] ▶
to tell us,
[2:26:23 - 2:26:24] ▶
that our government
[2:26:24 - 2:26:25] ▶
has a UFO in its possession
[2:26:25 - 2:26:27] ▶
and has been able
[2:26:27 - 2:26:28] ▶
to access the inside of it.
[2:26:28 - 2:26:29] ▶
Right?
[2:26:29 - 2:26:29] ▶
Yes.
[2:26:31 - 2:26:31] ▶
I mean,
[2:26:31 - 2:26:32] ▶
when you work with people
[2:26:32 - 2:26:33] ▶
like that,
[2:26:33 - 2:26:34] ▶
we know that
[2:26:34 - 2:26:35] ▶
we're not trained to lie
[2:26:35 - 2:26:36] ▶
and make up bullshit
[2:26:36 - 2:26:37] ▶
just for the sake
[2:26:37 - 2:26:38] ▶
of lying and making up bullshit.
[2:26:38 - 2:26:40] ▶
No,
[2:26:41 - 2:26:41] ▶
we are people with clearances.
[2:26:41 - 2:26:42] ▶
We are responsible people.
[2:26:43 - 2:26:44] ▶
Jim Lekatsky
[2:26:44 - 2:26:45] ▶
was a missiles engineer,
[2:26:45 - 2:26:46] ▶
I believe he was.
[2:26:47 - 2:26:47] ▶
So,
[2:26:48 - 2:26:49] ▶
and there are other
[2:26:49 - 2:26:49] ▶
missiles engineers I knew
[2:26:49 - 2:26:51] ▶
who worked at the DIA
[2:26:51 - 2:26:52] ▶
back in the 80s and,
[2:26:52 - 2:26:54] ▶
no,
[2:26:55 - 2:26:55] ▶
back in,
[2:26:55 - 2:26:56] ▶
yeah,
[2:26:56 - 2:26:56] ▶
80s, 90s,
[2:26:56 - 2:26:57] ▶
and 2000s
[2:26:57 - 2:26:58] ▶
until they retired.
[2:26:58 - 2:26:58] ▶
So,
[2:26:59 - 2:26:59] ▶
there's a lot of engineers
[2:26:59 - 2:27:00] ▶
in the DIA,
[2:27:00 - 2:27:01] ▶
not too many physicists
[2:27:01 - 2:27:02] ▶
that I ever ran across.
[2:27:02 - 2:27:03] ▶
So,
[2:27:03 - 2:27:03] ▶
anyway,
[2:27:04 - 2:27:04] ▶
it'd be nice,
[2:27:04 - 2:27:05] ▶
but,
[2:27:05 - 2:27:05] ▶
so,
[2:27:05 - 2:27:05] ▶
my point is,
[2:27:05 - 2:27:06] ▶
Jim Lekatsky
[2:27:06 - 2:27:07] ▶
wouldn't say that
[2:27:07 - 2:27:08] ▶
just to pull it out of the air
[2:27:08 - 2:27:10] ▶
and throw people off.
[2:27:10 - 2:27:11] ▶
He's telling you the truth.
[2:27:11 - 2:27:11] ▶
That was during his time.
[2:27:12 - 2:27:12] ▶
This is exactly the truth
[2:27:12 - 2:27:13] ▶
and this is exactly
[2:27:13 - 2:27:14] ▶
what he experienced
[2:27:14 - 2:27:15] ▶
working at the DIA.
[2:27:15 - 2:27:16] ▶
At some point,
[2:27:16 - 2:27:17] ▶
I don't know
[2:27:18 - 2:27:19] ▶
whether this happened
[2:27:19 - 2:27:20] ▶
during the OSSAP
[2:27:20 - 2:27:21] ▶
because he certainly
[2:27:21 - 2:27:22] ▶
didn't tell us.
[2:27:22 - 2:27:23] ▶
All of us in the OSSAP,
[2:27:23 - 2:27:24] ▶
Kelleher,
[2:27:24 - 2:27:25] ▶
Bigelow,
[2:27:25 - 2:27:25] ▶
Pura,
[2:27:26 - 2:27:26] ▶
Vali,
[2:27:26 - 2:27:26] ▶
myself,
[2:27:27 - 2:27:27] ▶
we never heard this
[2:27:28 - 2:27:29] ▶
come from Kasky before.
[2:27:29 - 2:27:30] ▶
Was this at Lockheed
[2:27:30 - 2:27:31] ▶
or when he stepped
[2:27:31 - 2:27:33] ▶
inside the crack?
[2:27:33 - 2:27:33] ▶
I don't know where it was.
[2:27:33 - 2:27:34] ▶
It's just that he said,
[2:27:34 - 2:27:35] ▶
he didn't say in his book.
[2:27:35 - 2:27:37] ▶
I don't know if you've read
[2:27:37 - 2:27:38] ▶
the book or not.
[2:27:38 - 2:27:38] ▶
I haven't read the book.
[2:27:39 - 2:27:39] ▶
Okay.
[2:27:39 - 2:27:40] ▶
So he didn't say
[2:27:40 - 2:27:41] ▶
where he went into that craft
[2:27:41 - 2:27:42] ▶
or who had it,
[2:27:42 - 2:27:43] ▶
but I have a general idea
[2:27:43 - 2:27:45] ▶
based on conversations
[2:27:45 - 2:27:47] ▶
I've had with Jay Stratton.
[2:27:47 - 2:27:48] ▶
But the point being
[2:27:48 - 2:27:49] ▶
is that he was able
[2:27:49 - 2:27:50] ▶
to get it,
[2:27:50 - 2:27:51] ▶
touch it.
[2:27:51 - 2:27:52] ▶
I also know
[2:27:52 - 2:27:53] ▶
a four-star general
[2:27:53 - 2:27:54] ▶
from the Clinton administration
[2:27:54 - 2:27:55] ▶
who was able to go there,
[2:27:55 - 2:27:56] ▶
uses authority,
[2:27:56 - 2:27:57] ▶
his power
[2:27:57 - 2:27:57] ▶
to go see the program
[2:27:57 - 2:28:00] ▶
and get inside,
[2:28:00 - 2:28:01] ▶
talk to the program,
[2:28:01 - 2:28:02] ▶
employees and leadership,
[2:28:02 - 2:28:04] ▶
touch the craft,
[2:28:04 - 2:28:05] ▶
look inside the craft.
[2:28:05 - 2:28:06] ▶
So that's two.
[2:28:06 - 2:28:07] ▶
And then there's
[2:28:08 - 2:28:08] ▶
Admiral Wilson
[2:28:08 - 2:28:09] ▶
who said,
[2:28:09 - 2:28:10] ▶
I tried to get
[2:28:10 - 2:28:11] ▶
in the program.
[2:28:11 - 2:28:11] ▶
I met the program manager,
[2:28:12 - 2:28:13] ▶
the corporate security chief,
[2:28:13 - 2:28:14] ▶
the legal counsel
[2:28:15 - 2:28:16] ▶
and the chief scientist.
[2:28:16 - 2:28:18] ▶
And they told me
[2:28:18 - 2:28:19] ▶
after a lot of resistance
[2:28:19 - 2:28:20] ▶
and arguing,
[2:28:20 - 2:28:20] ▶
they finally said,
[2:28:21 - 2:28:21] ▶
this is what you're looking for.
[2:28:21 - 2:28:23] ▶
It is a crash retrieval,
[2:28:23 - 2:28:24] ▶
non-human intelligence,
[2:28:24 - 2:28:25] ▶
non-human technology,
[2:28:26 - 2:28:27] ▶
off-world,
[2:28:27 - 2:28:28] ▶
but we can't let you in
[2:28:28 - 2:28:30] ▶
because you don't have
[2:28:30 - 2:28:31] ▶
a need to know beyond that.
[2:28:31 - 2:28:33] ▶
Yeah.
[2:28:33 - 2:28:33] ▶
You know,
[2:28:33 - 2:28:33] ▶
it's like,
[2:28:33 - 2:28:34] ▶
oh,
[2:28:34 - 2:28:34] ▶
but that's how it works.
[2:28:34 - 2:28:35] ▶
I mean,
[2:28:35 - 2:28:36] ▶
that really does work that way.
[2:28:36 - 2:28:37] ▶
The head of the NRO
[2:28:37 - 2:28:38] ▶
doesn't know
[2:28:38 - 2:28:39] ▶
what the hell
[2:28:39 - 2:28:39] ▶
a lot of the stuff
[2:28:39 - 2:28:40] ▶
that's going on beneath him
[2:28:40 - 2:28:41] ▶
because they're WUSAPs
[2:28:41 - 2:28:42] ▶
or SAPs or hidden SCIs.
[2:28:42 - 2:28:44] ▶
He doesn't have a need to know
[2:28:44 - 2:28:45] ▶
unless there's a reason
[2:28:45 - 2:28:48] ▶
that he has to
[2:28:48 - 2:28:49] ▶
and then they have to brief him.
[2:28:49 - 2:28:50] ▶
On that mind-blowing
[2:28:52 - 2:28:53] ▶
but also baffling note,
[2:28:53 - 2:28:55] ▶
and I'm glad we ended
[2:28:55 - 2:28:56] ▶
in a sort of a,
[2:28:56 - 2:28:57] ▶
you know,
[2:28:57 - 2:28:57] ▶
collegial way,
[2:28:57 - 2:28:58] ▶
we share mutual hope
[2:28:58 - 2:28:59] ▶
that we can,
[2:28:59 - 2:29:00] ▶
you know,
[2:29:00 - 2:29:00] ▶
bash down the doors
[2:29:00 - 2:29:01] ▶
of this program.
[2:29:01 - 2:29:02] ▶
I love this guy's mind.
[2:29:02 - 2:29:03] ▶
I love the way he was going
[2:29:03 - 2:29:04] ▶
in the last hour or so.
[2:29:04 - 2:29:06] ▶
Yeah.
[2:29:06 - 2:29:06] ▶
This is,
[2:29:06 - 2:29:07] ▶
this has really opened my mind
[2:29:07 - 2:29:09] ▶
a lot more,
[2:29:09 - 2:29:10] ▶
my eyes on some things
[2:29:10 - 2:29:11] ▶
I want to start looking at now.
[2:29:11 - 2:29:12] ▶
Thank you for that.
[2:29:12 - 2:29:13] ▶
Thanks, Doc.
[2:29:13 - 2:29:13] ▶
Thank you, sir.
[2:29:14 - 2:29:14] ▶
That was an interesting conversation.
[2:29:16 - 2:29:17] ▶
Wasn't it?
[2:29:17 - 2:29:18] ▶
Yeah.
[2:29:19 - 2:29:19] ▶
What's your,
[2:29:20 - 2:29:21] ▶
I don't know,
[2:29:21 - 2:29:22] ▶
do you have kind of
[2:29:22 - 2:29:23] ▶
a gestalt sense
[2:29:23 - 2:29:24] ▶
coming away from that
[2:29:24 - 2:29:25] ▶
as far as an update,
[2:29:25 - 2:29:27] ▶
where you were
[2:29:27 - 2:29:28] ▶
before the conversation,
[2:29:28 - 2:29:29] ▶
where you are now?
[2:29:29 - 2:29:31] ▶
So first of all,
[2:29:32 - 2:29:33] ▶
it's interesting
[2:29:33 - 2:29:33] ▶
to see somebody
[2:29:33 - 2:29:34] ▶
who believes
[2:29:34 - 2:29:35] ▶
in aliens
[2:29:35 - 2:29:36] ▶
and,
[2:29:36 - 2:29:37] ▶
and,
[2:29:37 - 2:29:37] ▶
and craft
[2:29:37 - 2:29:38] ▶
in some deep level
[2:29:38 - 2:29:40] ▶
and doesn't believe
[2:29:40 - 2:29:42] ▶
in going beyond
[2:29:42 - 2:29:43] ▶
the theories
[2:29:43 - 2:29:44] ▶
that are
[2:29:44 - 2:29:45] ▶
blessed with holy water
[2:29:45 - 2:29:48] ▶
by the physics community.
[2:29:48 - 2:29:49] ▶
And so,
[2:29:49 - 2:29:50] ▶
you know,
[2:29:51 - 2:29:52] ▶
I take general relativity
[2:29:52 - 2:29:54] ▶
and standard model
[2:29:54 - 2:29:54] ▶
quite seriously,
[2:29:54 - 2:29:55] ▶
but he takes it
[2:29:55 - 2:29:56] ▶
almost as a constraint.
[2:29:56 - 2:29:59] ▶
So I think
[2:29:59 - 2:30:00] ▶
one of the things
[2:30:00 - 2:30:01] ▶
I didn't understand
[2:30:01 - 2:30:02] ▶
is that
[2:30:02 - 2:30:03] ▶
the physics output
[2:30:03 - 2:30:05] ▶
is,
[2:30:05 - 2:30:05] ▶
seems almost recreational
[2:30:06 - 2:30:07] ▶
and it seems like
[2:30:07 - 2:30:09] ▶
what is the closest
[2:30:09 - 2:30:11] ▶
you could get
[2:30:11 - 2:30:11] ▶
to science fiction
[2:30:11 - 2:30:12] ▶
using known science?
[2:30:12 - 2:30:14] ▶
Hmm.
[2:30:14 - 2:30:15] ▶
Right?
[2:30:16 - 2:30:16] ▶
Yeah.
[2:30:16 - 2:30:17] ▶
And the idea
[2:30:17 - 2:30:17] ▶
is that it's all
[2:30:17 - 2:30:18] ▶
extremely
[2:30:18 - 2:30:20] ▶
implausible,
[2:30:20 - 2:30:22] ▶
vague scenario.
[2:30:23 - 2:30:23] ▶
like if we could come up
[2:30:23 - 2:30:24] ▶
with huge amounts
[2:30:24 - 2:30:25] ▶
of matter and energy,
[2:30:25 - 2:30:26] ▶
then we could do this
[2:30:27 - 2:30:28] ▶
Alcubierre
[2:30:28 - 2:30:29] ▶
space-time solution
[2:30:29 - 2:30:31] ▶
or,
[2:30:31 - 2:30:32] ▶
you know,
[2:30:32 - 2:30:34] ▶
maybe we could
[2:30:34 - 2:30:35] ▶
engineer
[2:30:35 - 2:30:36] ▶
an Einstein-Rosen bridge,
[2:30:36 - 2:30:38] ▶
you know,
[2:30:39 - 2:30:39] ▶
and like,
[2:30:39 - 2:30:40] ▶
again,
[2:30:40 - 2:30:40] ▶
I heard somebody
[2:30:41 - 2:30:42] ▶
say this thing
[2:30:42 - 2:30:43] ▶
about
[2:30:43 - 2:30:43] ▶
maybe the black hole
[2:30:43 - 2:30:46] ▶
information paradox
[2:30:46 - 2:30:47] ▶
is a key
[2:30:47 - 2:30:48] ▶
that because it doesn't
[2:30:48 - 2:30:49] ▶
fully make sense
[2:30:49 - 2:30:50] ▶
that that's where
[2:30:50 - 2:30:51] ▶
the technology is
[2:30:51 - 2:30:52] ▶
and you should use
[2:30:52 - 2:30:52] ▶
quantum gravity
[2:30:52 - 2:30:53] ▶
as a guide.
[2:30:53 - 2:30:54] ▶
Maybe you go
[2:30:54 - 2:30:55] ▶
into a black hole
[2:30:55 - 2:30:56] ▶
and you somehow
[2:30:56 - 2:30:56] ▶
get shot out
[2:30:56 - 2:30:58] ▶
someplace at a speed
[2:30:58 - 2:30:59] ▶
that you couldn't
[2:30:59 - 2:31:00] ▶
imagine otherwise.
[2:31:00 - 2:31:01] ▶
Whatever these things
[2:31:01 - 2:31:02] ▶
are,
[2:31:02 - 2:31:03] ▶
this is garbage.
[2:31:04 - 2:31:05] ▶
I hate to say it
[2:31:05 - 2:31:06] ▶
that way,
[2:31:06 - 2:31:07] ▶
but it's not that
[2:31:07 - 2:31:07] ▶
he's,
[2:31:07 - 2:31:08] ▶
maybe he's doing
[2:31:09 - 2:31:11] ▶
the best that you
[2:31:11 - 2:31:12] ▶
can do,
[2:31:12 - 2:31:12] ▶
assuming general relativity
[2:31:12 - 2:31:14] ▶
and the standard model,
[2:31:14 - 2:31:15] ▶
trying to reproduce
[2:31:15 - 2:31:16] ▶
something that clearly
[2:31:16 - 2:31:17] ▶
goes beyond it
[2:31:17 - 2:31:18] ▶
if it exists at all.
[2:31:18 - 2:31:19] ▶
another thing is
[2:31:19 - 2:31:21] ▶
is that I was
[2:31:21 - 2:31:22] ▶
sort of surprised
[2:31:22 - 2:31:23] ▶
that he wasn't
[2:31:23 - 2:31:24] ▶
nearly as read in
[2:31:24 - 2:31:25] ▶
at a primary level
[2:31:25 - 2:31:28] ▶
so that he's able
[2:31:28 - 2:31:30] ▶
to talk
[2:31:30 - 2:31:31] ▶
because
[2:31:31 - 2:31:31] ▶
he didn't actually
[2:31:31 - 2:31:33] ▶
make primary contact
[2:31:33 - 2:31:35] ▶
with this.
[2:31:35 - 2:31:36] ▶
Well,
[2:31:36 - 2:31:36] ▶
that's the thing
[2:31:36 - 2:31:37] ▶
we were just commenting
[2:31:37 - 2:31:38] ▶
on off camera,
[2:31:38 - 2:31:39] ▶
which is this funny
[2:31:39 - 2:31:40] ▶
dynamic of everybody
[2:31:40 - 2:31:41] ▶
seems to be circling
[2:31:41 - 2:31:43] ▶
around this program
[2:31:43 - 2:31:44] ▶
and nobody seems
[2:31:44 - 2:31:45] ▶
to be in the program.
[2:31:45 - 2:31:47] ▶
It's a little like
[2:31:47 - 2:31:48] ▶
the Epstein list
[2:31:48 - 2:31:49] ▶
or something,
[2:31:49 - 2:31:49] ▶
which is not at all,
[2:31:50 - 2:31:51] ▶
you know,
[2:31:51 - 2:31:51] ▶
we'll stop the analogy
[2:31:51 - 2:31:53] ▶
there,
[2:31:53 - 2:31:53] ▶
but it is this weird
[2:31:53 - 2:31:54] ▶
thing where it's like,
[2:31:54 - 2:31:55] ▶
you know,
[2:31:55 - 2:31:56] ▶
no one,
[2:31:56 - 2:31:57] ▶
no one,
[2:31:57 - 2:31:57] ▶
no one's gone
[2:31:57 - 2:31:58] ▶
to the island,
[2:31:58 - 2:31:58] ▶
but like,
[2:31:58 - 2:31:59] ▶
you know,
[2:31:59 - 2:31:59] ▶
or not me rather,
[2:31:59 - 2:32:00] ▶
but everybody else
[2:32:00 - 2:32:01] ▶
has or whatever,
[2:32:01 - 2:32:02] ▶
and these are,
[2:32:02 - 2:32:02] ▶
everybody's demonic
[2:32:02 - 2:32:03] ▶
or whatever.
[2:32:03 - 2:32:04] ▶
And in this case,
[2:32:04 - 2:32:05] ▶
it's this weird thing
[2:32:06 - 2:32:06] ▶
where everybody's
[2:32:06 - 2:32:07] ▶
this Mr. Smith
[2:32:07 - 2:32:08] ▶
goes to Washington
[2:32:08 - 2:32:09] ▶
character who stumbled
[2:32:09 - 2:32:10] ▶
into this in this
[2:32:10 - 2:32:11] ▶
sort of hapless way
[2:32:11 - 2:32:12] ▶
and they have no idea
[2:32:12 - 2:32:14] ▶
how the thing actually
[2:32:14 - 2:32:16] ▶
sort of functions
[2:32:16 - 2:32:17] ▶
and works
[2:32:17 - 2:32:17] ▶
and that allows them
[2:32:17 - 2:32:18] ▶
to talk about it.
[2:32:18 - 2:32:19] ▶
Or even if
[2:32:19 - 2:32:19] ▶
there's a thing
[2:32:19 - 2:32:21] ▶
as described at all.
[2:32:21 - 2:32:23] ▶
I mean,
[2:32:23 - 2:32:23] ▶
I'm convinced
[2:32:23 - 2:32:25] ▶
that there's a thing
[2:32:25 - 2:32:25] ▶
and it has a boundary
[2:32:25 - 2:32:28] ▶
and it has some structure
[2:32:28 - 2:32:29] ▶
and there's some money
[2:32:29 - 2:32:30] ▶
in it,
[2:32:30 - 2:32:30] ▶
whatever.
[2:32:31 - 2:32:31] ▶
But I don't know
[2:32:31 - 2:32:33] ▶
that what's inside
[2:32:33 - 2:32:35] ▶
that container
[2:32:35 - 2:32:36] ▶
is what is
[2:32:36 - 2:32:38] ▶
indicated on its surface
[2:32:38 - 2:32:41] ▶
to the extent
[2:32:41 - 2:32:41] ▶
that anyone can even
[2:32:41 - 2:32:42] ▶
see the boundary.
[2:32:42 - 2:32:43] ▶
Yeah,
[2:32:44 - 2:32:44] ▶
well,
[2:32:44 - 2:32:44] ▶
that's a question.
[2:32:44 - 2:32:45] ▶
It's like,
[2:32:45 - 2:32:45] ▶
you know,
[2:32:45 - 2:32:46] ▶
does the tip of the iceberg
[2:32:46 - 2:32:47] ▶
look like,
[2:32:47 - 2:32:48] ▶
is it actually an iceberg?
[2:32:48 - 2:32:49] ▶
And are we looking
[2:32:50 - 2:32:51] ▶
at a tip of the iceberg
[2:32:51 - 2:32:51] ▶
where you can say,
[2:32:51 - 2:32:53] ▶
we have a crash retrieval
[2:32:53 - 2:32:55] ▶
reverse engineering program,
[2:32:55 - 2:32:56] ▶
but that's actually
[2:32:56 - 2:32:57] ▶
some sort of
[2:32:57 - 2:32:57] ▶
intelligent sleight of hand
[2:32:57 - 2:32:59] ▶
and in fact,
[2:32:59 - 2:32:59] ▶
the body
[2:32:59 - 2:33:01] ▶
or a structure
[2:33:01 - 2:33:02] ▶
that is underneath,
[2:33:02 - 2:33:03] ▶
you know,
[2:33:04 - 2:33:04] ▶
submerged in the water
[2:33:04 - 2:33:05] ▶
is obfuscated
[2:33:05 - 2:33:07] ▶
and that changes everything.
[2:33:07 - 2:33:09] ▶
Yeah,
[2:33:10 - 2:33:10] ▶
it's like you have
[2:33:10 - 2:33:10] ▶
a kelp forest
[2:33:10 - 2:33:11] ▶
which has a top
[2:33:11 - 2:33:12] ▶
which looks like
[2:33:12 - 2:33:13] ▶
an iceberg.
[2:33:13 - 2:33:14] ▶
Yeah.
[2:33:14 - 2:33:14] ▶
You know,
[2:33:15 - 2:33:16] ▶
something like that.
[2:33:16 - 2:33:17] ▶
I was just trying
[2:33:17 - 2:33:18] ▶
to figure out
[2:33:18 - 2:33:18] ▶
the right analogy.
[2:33:18 - 2:33:19] ▶
Well,
[2:33:19 - 2:33:19] ▶
there isn't a good one.
[2:33:19 - 2:33:20] ▶
There isn't a good one.
[2:33:20 - 2:33:21] ▶
Yeah.
[2:33:21 - 2:33:21] ▶
And you have
[2:33:21 - 2:33:22] ▶
unreliable narrators
[2:33:22 - 2:33:24] ▶
to contend with as well
[2:33:24 - 2:33:25] ▶
and you have
[2:33:25 - 2:33:26] ▶
unprepared ontologies
[2:33:26 - 2:33:27] ▶
to contend with as well.
[2:33:27 - 2:33:28] ▶
So you have
[2:33:28 - 2:33:29] ▶
these voices
[2:33:29 - 2:33:30] ▶
giving you information.
[2:33:30 - 2:33:31] ▶
You are Eric Davis
[2:33:32 - 2:33:33] ▶
in this situation.
[2:33:33 - 2:33:34] ▶
You have these witnesses
[2:33:34 - 2:33:35] ▶
or these sources
[2:33:35 - 2:33:36] ▶
giving you information,
[2:33:36 - 2:33:37] ▶
but they are a filter
[2:33:37 - 2:33:38] ▶
unto themselves.
[2:33:38 - 2:33:39] ▶
They're an ontology filter
[2:33:39 - 2:33:40] ▶
and they're
[2:33:40 - 2:33:41] ▶
a reliability filter.
[2:33:41 - 2:33:42] ▶
How much can you
[2:33:43 - 2:33:44] ▶
totally bank
[2:33:44 - 2:33:45] ▶
on what they're saying
[2:33:45 - 2:33:46] ▶
and use it
[2:33:46 - 2:33:46] ▶
to build a model
[2:33:46 - 2:33:47] ▶
for whatever is hiding
[2:33:47 - 2:33:48] ▶
in this boundary?
[2:33:48 - 2:33:49] ▶
So one of the questions
[2:33:49 - 2:33:52] ▶
that we were discussing
[2:33:52 - 2:33:54] ▶
is if you believe
[2:33:54 - 2:33:56] ▶
in the legacy program,
[2:33:56 - 2:33:57] ▶
and I think all three
[2:33:57 - 2:33:59] ▶
of us are in a position
[2:33:59 - 2:34:01] ▶
where we've talked
[2:34:01 - 2:34:03] ▶
to too many different people
[2:34:03 - 2:34:04] ▶
with different backgrounds
[2:34:04 - 2:34:06] ▶
that are talking
[2:34:06 - 2:34:07] ▶
about a something in common.
[2:34:07 - 2:34:09] ▶
And, you know,
[2:34:10 - 2:34:11] ▶
in my worst fear,
[2:34:11 - 2:34:13] ▶
it's the jackalope
[2:34:13 - 2:34:14] ▶
where everybody sort of
[2:34:14 - 2:34:15] ▶
believes the jackalopes
[2:34:15 - 2:34:16] ▶
are real
[2:34:16 - 2:34:16] ▶
because there's an industry
[2:34:16 - 2:34:19] ▶
around a myth.
[2:34:19 - 2:34:19] ▶
But assuming this thing
[2:34:22 - 2:34:23] ▶
is real
[2:34:23 - 2:34:24] ▶
because I can't imagine
[2:34:24 - 2:34:25] ▶
how you would fake it.
[2:34:25 - 2:34:26] ▶
What is real
[2:34:26 - 2:34:27] ▶
is a program
[2:34:27 - 2:34:28] ▶
with a boundary.
[2:34:28 - 2:34:29] ▶
So there's something
[2:34:30 - 2:34:31] ▶
where you're inside
[2:34:31 - 2:34:32] ▶
the program
[2:34:32 - 2:34:33] ▶
and there's something
[2:34:33 - 2:34:33] ▶
where you're outside
[2:34:33 - 2:34:34] ▶
the program
[2:34:34 - 2:34:34] ▶
and people have to go back
[2:34:34 - 2:34:35] ▶
in and out
[2:34:35 - 2:34:36] ▶
unless you imagine
[2:34:36 - 2:34:37] ▶
that there's a secret facility
[2:34:37 - 2:34:39] ▶
which you enter once
[2:34:39 - 2:34:40] ▶
and you never leave.
[2:34:40 - 2:34:41] ▶
Just physically.
[2:34:42 - 2:34:43] ▶
This means almost certainly
[2:34:43 - 2:34:48] ▶
this thing is
[2:34:48 - 2:34:48] ▶
hidden in plain sight.
[2:34:48 - 2:34:50] ▶
I don't mean to say
[2:34:50 - 2:34:51] ▶
that there may not be
[2:34:51 - 2:34:51] ▶
deep underground facilities
[2:34:51 - 2:34:53] ▶
on our bases.
[2:34:53 - 2:34:54] ▶
I don't mean to say that.
[2:34:54 - 2:34:55] ▶
But people have to go home.
[2:34:55 - 2:34:57] ▶
Right.
[2:34:58 - 2:34:58] ▶
Right?
[2:34:59 - 2:34:59] ▶
And
[2:35:00 - 2:35:00] ▶
you have to have plumbers
[2:35:00 - 2:35:03] ▶
and you have to have
[2:35:03 - 2:35:05] ▶
housekeeping staff.
[2:35:05 - 2:35:06] ▶
I don't understand
[2:35:06 - 2:35:11] ▶
how this thing
[2:35:11 - 2:35:15] ▶
exists.
[2:35:15 - 2:35:16] ▶
Well, on that note
[2:35:16 - 2:35:17] ▶
you
[2:35:17 - 2:35:18] ▶
attempted at some
[2:35:18 - 2:35:20] ▶
instantiation
[2:35:20 - 2:35:21] ▶
of at least
[2:35:21 - 2:35:22] ▶
the theoretical physics
[2:35:22 - 2:35:23] ▶
component of
[2:35:23 - 2:35:24] ▶
the whatever
[2:35:24 - 2:35:25] ▶
we're calling
[2:35:25 - 2:35:26] ▶
this UAP
[2:35:26 - 2:35:27] ▶
legacy program
[2:35:27 - 2:35:28] ▶
at Renaissance Technologies
[2:35:28 - 2:35:30] ▶
and
[2:35:30 - 2:35:31] ▶
I thought it was
[2:35:31 - 2:35:32] ▶
interesting
[2:35:32 - 2:35:33] ▶
that
[2:35:33 - 2:35:33] ▶
in 2022
[2:35:33 - 2:35:34] ▶
NASA
[2:35:34 - 2:35:35] ▶
had this
[2:35:35 - 2:35:36] ▶
UFO review panel.
[2:35:36 - 2:35:38] ▶
Sixteen researchers
[2:35:39 - 2:35:40] ▶
will spend
[2:35:40 - 2:35:40] ▶
the next
[2:35:40 - 2:35:41] ▶
nine months
[2:35:41 - 2:35:42] ▶
studying the UFOs.
[2:35:42 - 2:35:43] ▶
They will use
[2:35:44 - 2:35:44] ▶
unclassified data
[2:35:44 - 2:35:46] ▶
in their research
[2:35:46 - 2:35:47] ▶
and release a report
[2:35:47 - 2:35:48] ▶
to the public
[2:35:48 - 2:35:48] ▶
next year.
[2:35:48 - 2:35:49] ▶
And this follows
[2:35:49 - 2:35:50] ▶
the Pentagon's
[2:35:50 - 2:35:50] ▶
announcement in July
[2:35:50 - 2:35:51] ▶
that it would create
[2:35:51 - 2:35:52] ▶
an office
[2:35:52 - 2:35:53] ▶
to track reports
[2:35:53 - 2:35:54] ▶
of UAPs
[2:35:54 - 2:35:56] ▶
or UFOs.
[2:35:56 - 2:35:57] ▶
And they were seeing
[2:35:57 - 2:35:58] ▶
if there's anything
[2:35:58 - 2:35:59] ▶
to all this stuff
[2:35:59 - 2:36:01] ▶
and they were looking
[2:36:01 - 2:36:01] ▶
into it in an official
[2:36:01 - 2:36:02] ▶
capacity
[2:36:02 - 2:36:03] ▶
and the person
[2:36:03 - 2:36:04] ▶
overseeing that
[2:36:04 - 2:36:05] ▶
panel is this guy
[2:36:05 - 2:36:06] ▶
David Spurgle.
[2:36:06 - 2:36:07] ▶
Of course,
[2:36:07 - 2:36:07] ▶
Jim Simon started
[2:36:08 - 2:36:08] ▶
Renaissance Technologies
[2:36:08 - 2:36:10] ▶
and Spurgle was
[2:36:10 - 2:36:10] ▶
head of his foundation.
[2:36:10 - 2:36:12] ▶
So I find that to be
[2:36:12 - 2:36:13] ▶
very interesting overlap.
[2:36:13 - 2:36:14] ▶
So there's this concept
[2:36:15 - 2:36:16] ▶
in Washington
[2:36:16 - 2:36:16] ▶
of steady hands
[2:36:16 - 2:36:18] ▶
and steady hands.
[2:36:18 - 2:36:21] ▶
I never really
[2:36:22 - 2:36:23] ▶
found all the
[2:36:23 - 2:36:24] ▶
different meanings for it,
[2:36:24 - 2:36:25] ▶
but one meaning
[2:36:25 - 2:36:26] ▶
for it was
[2:36:26 - 2:36:27] ▶
who can we trust
[2:36:27 - 2:36:28] ▶
when the pressure
[2:36:28 - 2:36:30] ▶
gets insanely high
[2:36:30 - 2:36:32] ▶
to do what we expect
[2:36:32 - 2:36:34] ▶
needs to be done,
[2:36:34 - 2:36:35] ▶
which may involve
[2:36:35 - 2:36:36] ▶
obfuscating,
[2:36:36 - 2:36:37] ▶
lying,
[2:36:37 - 2:36:38] ▶
evading,
[2:36:38 - 2:36:39] ▶
prettifying,
[2:36:40 - 2:36:41] ▶
all of the things
[2:36:41 - 2:36:42] ▶
that don't have
[2:36:42 - 2:36:42] ▶
to do with disclosure.
[2:36:42 - 2:36:44] ▶
The world of steady hands
[2:36:45 - 2:36:47] ▶
is often a very small world,
[2:36:47 - 2:36:49] ▶
so they reuse the same,
[2:36:49 - 2:36:50] ▶
you'll notice
[2:36:50 - 2:36:51] ▶
that the same people
[2:36:51 - 2:36:52] ▶
in Washington,
[2:36:52 - 2:36:53] ▶
D.C.,
[2:36:53 - 2:36:54] ▶
somehow show up
[2:36:54 - 2:36:55] ▶
on eight different issues.
[2:36:55 - 2:36:57] ▶
They're like,
[2:36:57 - 2:36:57] ▶
because the government
[2:36:58 - 2:36:59] ▶
knows that they can
[2:36:59 - 2:37:00] ▶
trust that person
[2:37:00 - 2:37:01] ▶
in a crisis
[2:37:01 - 2:37:03] ▶
not to buckle.
[2:37:03 - 2:37:04] ▶
They've sort of
[2:37:05 - 2:37:05] ▶
given their life
[2:37:05 - 2:37:06] ▶
for the team.
[2:37:06 - 2:37:07] ▶
Would Fauci be
[2:37:08 - 2:37:09] ▶
sort of analogous?
[2:37:09 - 2:37:10] ▶
Sure.
[2:37:11 - 2:37:11] ▶
Right?
[2:37:12 - 2:37:12] ▶
The idea that you're
[2:37:12 - 2:37:13] ▶
going to stand up
[2:37:13 - 2:37:15] ▶
to Rand Paul
[2:37:15 - 2:37:16] ▶
in an open hearing
[2:37:16 - 2:37:18] ▶
and you're not
[2:37:18 - 2:37:19] ▶
going to call
[2:37:19 - 2:37:19] ▶
for your mommy
[2:37:19 - 2:37:20] ▶
and you're not
[2:37:20 - 2:37:22] ▶
going to say,
[2:37:22 - 2:37:22] ▶
okay,
[2:37:22 - 2:37:22] ▶
I admit it,
[2:37:22 - 2:37:23] ▶
there was a whole thing
[2:37:23 - 2:37:24] ▶
and we screwed up
[2:37:24 - 2:37:24] ▶
and I feel terrible,
[2:37:24 - 2:37:25] ▶
whatever.
[2:37:25 - 2:37:26] ▶
And so maybe
[2:37:27 - 2:37:28] ▶
the idea is
[2:37:28 - 2:37:29] ▶
we're dealing
[2:37:29 - 2:37:30] ▶
with the steady hands
[2:37:30 - 2:37:32] ▶
phenomena.
[2:37:32 - 2:37:32] ▶
That you need people
[2:37:33 - 2:37:35] ▶
to deny
[2:37:35 - 2:37:36] ▶
the obvious.
[2:37:36 - 2:37:37] ▶
You need people
[2:37:38 - 2:37:39] ▶
to spend credibility.
[2:37:39 - 2:37:41] ▶
And there are very few people
[2:37:42 - 2:37:43] ▶
who want to do that job.
[2:37:43 - 2:37:44] ▶
One other connection
[2:37:45 - 2:37:46] ▶
I was thinking of,
[2:37:46 - 2:37:47] ▶
speaking of,
[2:37:48 - 2:37:49] ▶
you know,
[2:37:49 - 2:37:49] ▶
the intersection
[2:37:49 - 2:37:50] ▶
between
[2:37:50 - 2:37:51] ▶
institutions
[2:37:51 - 2:37:53] ▶
institutions
[2:37:53 - 2:37:53] ▶
that are
[2:37:53 - 2:37:53] ▶
well respected
[2:37:53 - 2:37:54] ▶
that nobody
[2:37:54 - 2:37:56] ▶
can deny
[2:37:56 - 2:37:56] ▶
have power
[2:37:56 - 2:37:57] ▶
in the country.
[2:37:57 - 2:37:58] ▶
Like the Jasons,
[2:37:58 - 2:37:59] ▶
which,
[2:37:59 - 2:38:00] ▶
you know,
[2:38:00 - 2:38:01] ▶
they meet in Santa Barbara.
[2:38:01 - 2:38:02] ▶
It's the elite
[2:38:02 - 2:38:03] ▶
of the elite
[2:38:03 - 2:38:04] ▶
when it comes to
[2:38:04 - 2:38:05] ▶
military-industrial complex.
[2:38:05 - 2:38:06] ▶
And specifically
[2:38:07 - 2:38:07] ▶
figuring out
[2:38:07 - 2:38:08] ▶
kind of,
[2:38:08 - 2:38:09] ▶
it's frontier physics,
[2:38:09 - 2:38:10] ▶
but it's also
[2:38:10 - 2:38:11] ▶
weaponization.
[2:38:11 - 2:38:12] ▶
you know,
[2:38:12 - 2:38:13] ▶
you have that
[2:38:13 - 2:38:17] ▶
committee that you
[2:38:17 - 2:38:18] ▶
brought up.
[2:38:18 - 2:38:18] ▶
And then you have
[2:38:18 - 2:38:20] ▶
the UFO world,
[2:38:20 - 2:38:21] ▶
which seems kind of
[2:38:21 - 2:38:21] ▶
more quacky
[2:38:21 - 2:38:22] ▶
on the face of it.
[2:38:22 - 2:38:23] ▶
And you have this guy,
[2:38:23 - 2:38:24] ▶
Ron Pandolfi,
[2:38:24 - 2:38:25] ▶
who seems to be a part
[2:38:25 - 2:38:26] ▶
of the Jason Advisory
[2:38:26 - 2:38:28] ▶
Committee,
[2:38:28 - 2:38:28] ▶
but also seems to show up
[2:38:29 - 2:38:31] ▶
in UFO world
[2:38:31 - 2:38:31] ▶
constantly.
[2:38:31 - 2:38:32] ▶
And so
[2:38:33 - 2:38:33] ▶
I think it's really
[2:38:33 - 2:38:35] ▶
interesting as a heuristic
[2:38:35 - 2:38:36] ▶
to look at the
[2:38:36 - 2:38:36] ▶
intersection
[2:38:36 - 2:38:37] ▶
between
[2:38:37 - 2:38:38] ▶
quacky UFO world
[2:38:38 - 2:38:40] ▶
and more institutional,
[2:38:40 - 2:38:41] ▶
undeniable
[2:38:42 - 2:38:42] ▶
military-industrial complex.
[2:38:42 - 2:38:44] ▶
Well, that was why
[2:38:45 - 2:38:46] ▶
the golden age
[2:38:46 - 2:38:47] ▶
of general relativity
[2:38:47 - 2:38:48] ▶
was such an important
[2:38:48 - 2:38:49] ▶
thing to mine,
[2:38:49 - 2:38:51] ▶
because that was
[2:38:51 - 2:38:53] ▶
the last
[2:38:53 - 2:38:53] ▶
major moment
[2:38:53 - 2:38:55] ▶
where the
[2:38:55 - 2:38:56] ▶
lunatic
[2:38:56 - 2:38:57] ▶
quacks
[2:38:57 - 2:38:58] ▶
and the super
[2:38:58 - 2:38:59] ▶
respectable people
[2:38:59 - 2:39:00] ▶
were seeing each other
[2:39:00 - 2:39:01] ▶
after hours
[2:39:01 - 2:39:02] ▶
for cocktails.
[2:39:02 - 2:39:03] ▶
Right?
[2:39:04 - 2:39:04] ▶
And,
[2:39:04 - 2:39:05] ▶
you know,
[2:39:05 - 2:39:06] ▶
there's a different
[2:39:06 - 2:39:07] ▶
version of this
[2:39:07 - 2:39:08] ▶
maybe,
[2:39:08 - 2:39:08] ▶
where
[2:39:08 - 2:39:09] ▶
David Kaiser,
[2:39:09 - 2:39:11] ▶
I think,
[2:39:11 - 2:39:12] ▶
wrote this book,
[2:39:12 - 2:39:12] ▶
How the Hippies Saved Physics,
[2:39:13 - 2:39:14] ▶
about what gets done
[2:39:14 - 2:39:16] ▶
at Esalen,
[2:39:16 - 2:39:16] ▶
you know,
[2:39:17 - 2:39:17] ▶
with entanglement
[2:39:17 - 2:39:18] ▶
and
[2:39:18 - 2:39:19] ▶
bell inequalities
[2:39:19 - 2:39:21] ▶
and all that kind of stuff.
[2:39:21 - 2:39:22] ▶
So,
[2:39:22 - 2:39:23] ▶
I think that there's
[2:39:23 - 2:39:24] ▶
this weird way
[2:39:24 - 2:39:25] ▶
in which
[2:39:25 - 2:39:25] ▶
the quack world
[2:39:25 - 2:39:27] ▶
and
[2:39:27 - 2:39:29] ▶
the respectable world
[2:39:29 - 2:39:31] ▶
are always
[2:39:31 - 2:39:32] ▶
intermingled,
[2:39:32 - 2:39:33] ▶
and we don't really
[2:39:33 - 2:39:34] ▶
admit to this.
[2:39:34 - 2:39:35] ▶
I've called
[2:39:35 - 2:39:37] ▶
the passion
[2:39:37 - 2:39:39] ▶
for,
[2:39:39 - 2:39:40] ▶
let's say,
[2:39:40 - 2:39:41] ▶
string theoretic physics
[2:39:41 - 2:39:42] ▶
and other
[2:39:42 - 2:39:43] ▶
official
[2:39:43 - 2:39:44] ▶
mass delusions
[2:39:44 - 2:39:46] ▶
knarks,
[2:39:46 - 2:39:47] ▶
which is crank
[2:39:47 - 2:39:47] ▶
spelled backwards.
[2:39:47 - 2:39:48] ▶
A knark
[2:39:48 - 2:39:49] ▶
is a crank
[2:39:49 - 2:39:51] ▶
inside of the
[2:39:51 - 2:39:52] ▶
institutions
[2:39:52 - 2:39:52] ▶
who would be
[2:39:52 - 2:39:54] ▶
ridiculed
[2:39:54 - 2:39:55] ▶
for their belief
[2:39:55 - 2:39:56] ▶
structure,
[2:39:56 - 2:39:57] ▶
but for the fact
[2:39:57 - 2:39:57] ▶
that they are
[2:39:57 - 2:39:58] ▶
upholding the
[2:39:58 - 2:39:59] ▶
institution.
[2:39:59 - 2:40:00] ▶
Right?
[2:40:00 - 2:40:01] ▶
And so,
[2:40:01 - 2:40:02] ▶
we have a,
[2:40:02 - 2:40:03] ▶
and by the way,
[2:40:03 - 2:40:04] ▶
the mass delusion
[2:40:04 - 2:40:04] ▶
isn't that string theory
[2:40:04 - 2:40:05] ▶
might be interesting.
[2:40:05 - 2:40:06] ▶
It's that
[2:40:07 - 2:40:08] ▶
42 years in,
[2:40:08 - 2:40:09] ▶
you're still
[2:40:10 - 2:40:11] ▶
not seeing this,
[2:40:11 - 2:40:12] ▶
what do we have wrong?
[2:40:12 - 2:40:13] ▶
Does anyone else
[2:40:13 - 2:40:14] ▶
have an idea?
[2:40:14 - 2:40:14] ▶
There is no conference
[2:40:15 - 2:40:16] ▶
that brings together
[2:40:16 - 2:40:18] ▶
the critics
[2:40:18 - 2:40:19] ▶
and the proponents
[2:40:19 - 2:40:20] ▶
to try to get
[2:40:20 - 2:40:20] ▶
to ground truth.
[2:40:20 - 2:40:21] ▶
Well,
[2:40:22 - 2:40:22] ▶
you have an idea
[2:40:22 - 2:40:23] ▶
about,
[2:40:23 - 2:40:24] ▶
you mentioned this
[2:40:24 - 2:40:25] ▶
in the interview,
[2:40:25 - 2:40:25] ▶
you said,
[2:40:25 - 2:40:26] ▶
you know,
[2:40:26 - 2:40:26] ▶
we have been
[2:40:26 - 2:40:27] ▶
beating Einstein
[2:40:27 - 2:40:28] ▶
to death,
[2:40:28 - 2:40:29] ▶
trying to kind
[2:40:29 - 2:40:30] ▶
of quantize gravity.
[2:40:30 - 2:40:31] ▶
You have an idea
[2:40:32 - 2:40:33] ▶
about gauging gravity
[2:40:33 - 2:40:34] ▶
and how,
[2:40:34 - 2:40:36] ▶
you know,
[2:40:36 - 2:40:36] ▶
maybe we fell
[2:40:36 - 2:40:37] ▶
into the kind
[2:40:37 - 2:40:38] ▶
of quantum gravity
[2:40:38 - 2:40:39] ▶
cul-de-sac
[2:40:39 - 2:40:40] ▶
when we could have
[2:40:40 - 2:40:41] ▶
thought about gravity
[2:40:41 - 2:40:42] ▶
in this other context.
[2:40:42 - 2:40:43] ▶
Well,
[2:40:43 - 2:40:43] ▶
so this is a
[2:40:44 - 2:40:45] ▶
very strange point.
[2:40:45 - 2:40:46] ▶
So I just turned 60
[2:40:48 - 2:40:49] ▶
and...
[2:40:49 - 2:40:50] ▶
Happy birthday.
[2:40:50 - 2:40:51] ▶
Thank you very much.
[2:40:51 - 2:40:52] ▶
What I
[2:40:52 - 2:40:53] ▶
realized about myself
[2:40:53 - 2:40:55] ▶
is that I am
[2:40:55 - 2:40:56] ▶
the youngest person
[2:40:56 - 2:40:57] ▶
to see
[2:40:57 - 2:41:00] ▶
the transition
[2:41:00 - 2:41:01] ▶
between old-style
[2:41:01 - 2:41:02] ▶
physics
[2:41:02 - 2:41:03] ▶
and the string
[2:41:03 - 2:41:04] ▶
physics
[2:41:04 - 2:41:04] ▶
in terms of
[2:41:04 - 2:41:05] ▶
the community.
[2:41:05 - 2:41:05] ▶
So I got to college
[2:41:06 - 2:41:07] ▶
in 1982.
[2:41:07 - 2:41:08] ▶
I started going
[2:41:09 - 2:41:09] ▶
to seminars
[2:41:09 - 2:41:10] ▶
essentially immediately,
[2:41:10 - 2:41:11] ▶
which was unusual,
[2:41:11 - 2:41:12] ▶
and I was 16
[2:41:12 - 2:41:13] ▶
at the time,
[2:41:13 - 2:41:13] ▶
so that was my claim
[2:41:13 - 2:41:15] ▶
to saying that
[2:41:15 - 2:41:15] ▶
that's why I'm
[2:41:15 - 2:41:16] ▶
the youngest.
[2:41:16 - 2:41:16] ▶
Things change
[2:41:17 - 2:41:18] ▶
in 84,
[2:41:18 - 2:41:18] ▶
so there's really
[2:41:19 - 2:41:19] ▶
only 82,
[2:41:19 - 2:41:20] ▶
83,
[2:41:20 - 2:41:20] ▶
and I happened
[2:41:21 - 2:41:22] ▶
by complete accident
[2:41:22 - 2:41:23] ▶
to be at the first
[2:41:23 - 2:41:24] ▶
lecture of Ed Witten
[2:41:24 - 2:41:25] ▶
on string theory
[2:41:25 - 2:41:26] ▶
at the University
[2:41:26 - 2:41:26] ▶
of Pennsylvania
[2:41:26 - 2:41:27] ▶
in 1983,
[2:41:27 - 2:41:29] ▶
which I didn't know
[2:41:29 - 2:41:30] ▶
until very recently
[2:41:30 - 2:41:31] ▶
that my memory
[2:41:31 - 2:41:32] ▶
actually is because
[2:41:32 - 2:41:34] ▶
I fell by accident
[2:41:34 - 2:41:35] ▶
into the beginning.
[2:41:35 - 2:41:36] ▶
They changed
[2:41:38 - 2:41:39] ▶
the entire culture
[2:41:39 - 2:41:40] ▶
of theoretical physics,
[2:41:40 - 2:41:42] ▶
and there's nothing
[2:41:42 - 2:41:42] ▶
they can do
[2:41:42 - 2:41:43] ▶
to hide it.
[2:41:43 - 2:41:44] ▶
If you go back
[2:41:44 - 2:41:45] ▶
to research articles
[2:41:45 - 2:41:47] ▶
before 1984,
[2:41:47 - 2:41:49] ▶
you see an entirely
[2:41:50 - 2:41:51] ▶
different culture
[2:41:51 - 2:41:52] ▶
of inquiry
[2:41:52 - 2:41:53] ▶
as to what are
[2:41:53 - 2:41:53] ▶
the problems
[2:41:53 - 2:41:54] ▶
of physics,
[2:41:54 - 2:41:54] ▶
what might we
[2:41:54 - 2:41:55] ▶
try to do
[2:41:55 - 2:41:55] ▶
to solve them,
[2:41:55 - 2:41:56] ▶
and quantum gravity
[2:41:56 - 2:41:59] ▶
was just thrust
[2:41:59 - 2:42:02] ▶
down everybody's throat
[2:42:02 - 2:42:03] ▶
as the holy grail
[2:42:03 - 2:42:05] ▶
from 1984 to 87,
[2:42:05 - 2:42:08] ▶
and by the time
[2:42:08 - 2:42:09] ▶
of 87,
[2:42:09 - 2:42:09] ▶
everybody had
[2:42:09 - 2:42:10] ▶
accepted this,
[2:42:10 - 2:42:11] ▶
so what you did
[2:42:11 - 2:42:12] ▶
is you retconned
[2:42:12 - 2:42:13] ▶
a story
[2:42:13 - 2:42:14] ▶
where nobody
[2:42:14 - 2:42:15] ▶
mentions the phrase
[2:42:15 - 2:42:16] ▶
quantum gravity
[2:42:16 - 2:42:17] ▶
until 1972,
[2:42:17 - 2:42:18] ▶
and you say,
[2:42:18 - 2:42:21] ▶
well,
[2:42:21 - 2:42:21] ▶
that's always been
[2:42:21 - 2:42:22] ▶
the holy grail
[2:42:22 - 2:42:23] ▶
ever since gravity
[2:42:23 - 2:42:25] ▶
and general relativity
[2:42:25 - 2:42:26] ▶
in 1915,
[2:42:26 - 2:42:27] ▶
and the quantum,
[2:42:27 - 2:42:27] ▶
let's say,
[2:42:28 - 2:42:29] ▶
by 1928,
[2:42:29 - 2:42:29] ▶
when you have
[2:42:30 - 2:42:30] ▶
quantum electrodynamics,
[2:42:30 - 2:42:31] ▶
we're both realized
[2:42:31 - 2:42:32] ▶
to have this kind
[2:42:32 - 2:42:33] ▶
of incompatibility,
[2:42:33 - 2:42:34] ▶
so if the incompatibility
[2:42:34 - 2:42:37] ▶
between the two
[2:42:37 - 2:42:37] ▶
is real,
[2:42:37 - 2:42:38] ▶
but it's not really
[2:42:38 - 2:42:39] ▶
quantum gravity,
[2:42:39 - 2:42:40] ▶
what is it?
[2:42:40 - 2:42:41] ▶
So what I said
[2:42:42 - 2:42:43] ▶
was,
[2:42:43 - 2:42:44] ▶
most people
[2:42:45 - 2:42:46] ▶
don't realize
[2:42:46 - 2:42:47] ▶
that due to work
[2:42:47 - 2:42:48] ▶
of Jim Simons
[2:42:48 - 2:42:49] ▶
and C.N. Yang,
[2:42:49 - 2:42:51] ▶
which got written
[2:42:51 - 2:42:52] ▶
up as Wu Yang
[2:42:52 - 2:42:53] ▶
as if Simons
[2:42:53 - 2:42:54] ▶
was Wu,
[2:42:54 - 2:42:55] ▶
we know
[2:42:56 - 2:42:58] ▶
that underneath
[2:42:58 - 2:42:59] ▶
the standard model
[2:42:59 - 2:43:00] ▶
is a classical
[2:43:00 - 2:43:01] ▶
geometric structure,
[2:43:01 - 2:43:02] ▶
and we don't talk
[2:43:02 - 2:43:04] ▶
about the classical
[2:43:04 - 2:43:05] ▶
differential geometric
[2:43:05 - 2:43:07] ▶
nature of the standard model,
[2:43:07 - 2:43:09] ▶
and that is the subject
[2:43:10 - 2:43:12] ▶
of the Wu Yang Dictionary,
[2:43:12 - 2:43:14] ▶
so that unearthing
[2:43:14 - 2:43:16] ▶
of a geometric origin
[2:43:16 - 2:43:18] ▶
for the particles
[2:43:18 - 2:43:19] ▶
and fields
[2:43:19 - 2:43:20] ▶
that are not gravity
[2:43:20 - 2:43:21] ▶
but all the quantum fields
[2:43:21 - 2:43:23] ▶
is a very important clue.
[2:43:23 - 2:43:26] ▶
That geometry
[2:43:26 - 2:43:27] ▶
has a property,
[2:43:27 - 2:43:29] ▶
which is that it is gauged,
[2:43:29 - 2:43:30] ▶
which means
[2:43:31 - 2:43:31] ▶
that you can keep yourself
[2:43:31 - 2:43:33] ▶
from being fooled
[2:43:33 - 2:43:35] ▶
that many different versions,
[2:43:35 - 2:43:37] ▶
you know that problem
[2:43:38 - 2:43:38] ▶
with the elephant
[2:43:38 - 2:43:39] ▶
with the blind men
[2:43:39 - 2:43:40] ▶
going around,
[2:43:40 - 2:43:41] ▶
and it's all one elephant,
[2:43:41 - 2:43:43] ▶
and the blind men
[2:43:43 - 2:43:45] ▶
aren't wandering around
[2:43:45 - 2:43:45] ▶
the elephant stupidly,
[2:43:45 - 2:43:47] ▶
they're just staying
[2:43:47 - 2:43:47] ▶
in one place.
[2:43:47 - 2:43:48] ▶
So a gauge orbit
[2:43:48 - 2:43:49] ▶
would be,
[2:43:49 - 2:43:50] ▶
let's get all
[2:43:50 - 2:43:51] ▶
of the information
[2:43:51 - 2:43:51] ▶
from all of these people
[2:43:51 - 2:43:53] ▶
and decide that
[2:43:53 - 2:43:53] ▶
it's one elephant
[2:43:53 - 2:43:54] ▶
and they're just looking
[2:43:54 - 2:43:55] ▶
at it from different
[2:43:55 - 2:43:56] ▶
perspectives.
[2:43:56 - 2:43:56] ▶
So it's kind of
[2:43:57 - 2:43:58] ▶
a unity of knowledge.
[2:43:58 - 2:43:59] ▶
General relativity
[2:43:59 - 2:44:00] ▶
can't be gauged.
[2:44:00 - 2:44:03] ▶
Now, there's a lie
[2:44:03 - 2:44:04] ▶
that says,
[2:44:04 - 2:44:05] ▶
well, that it's a type
[2:44:05 - 2:44:06] ▶
of gauge theory
[2:44:06 - 2:44:06] ▶
because there's
[2:44:06 - 2:44:07] ▶
a different kind
[2:44:07 - 2:44:08] ▶
of symmetry
[2:44:08 - 2:44:08] ▶
which has nothing
[2:44:08 - 2:44:09] ▶
to do with gauging
[2:44:09 - 2:44:11] ▶
called general coordinate
[2:44:11 - 2:44:14] ▶
invariance
[2:44:14 - 2:44:15] ▶
or diffeomorphism
[2:44:15 - 2:44:16] ▶
invariance.
[2:44:16 - 2:44:16] ▶
So we make up
[2:44:17 - 2:44:18] ▶
a story to pretend
[2:44:18 - 2:44:19] ▶
that Einstein's theory
[2:44:19 - 2:44:20] ▶
can be gauged
[2:44:20 - 2:44:21] ▶
and it can't.
[2:44:21 - 2:44:22] ▶
And so now
[2:44:23 - 2:44:24] ▶
you have this weird question.
[2:44:24 - 2:44:25] ▶
Why did Ed Witten
[2:44:25 - 2:44:26] ▶
tell us that
[2:44:26 - 2:44:27] ▶
the incompatibility
[2:44:27 - 2:44:28] ▶
between this,
[2:44:28 - 2:44:29] ▶
the standard model
[2:44:30 - 2:44:31] ▶
and general relativity
[2:44:31 - 2:44:31] ▶
was that one
[2:44:31 - 2:44:32] ▶
was fully quantum
[2:44:32 - 2:44:33] ▶
and the other
[2:44:33 - 2:44:33] ▶
never quite grew up
[2:44:33 - 2:44:35] ▶
and that we had
[2:44:35 - 2:44:35] ▶
to grow up
[2:44:35 - 2:44:36] ▶
general relativity.
[2:44:36 - 2:44:37] ▶
So general relativity
[2:44:39 - 2:44:40] ▶
and the standard model
[2:44:40 - 2:44:41] ▶
have two separate
[2:44:41 - 2:44:42] ▶
attributes.
[2:44:42 - 2:44:42] ▶
Einstein could do
[2:44:43 - 2:44:44] ▶
two things
[2:44:44 - 2:44:44] ▶
that the standard model
[2:44:44 - 2:44:45] ▶
cannot.
[2:44:45 - 2:44:46] ▶
These things
[2:44:48 - 2:44:48] ▶
are called contraction
[2:44:48 - 2:44:49] ▶
where you take
[2:44:49 - 2:44:50] ▶
two indices
[2:44:50 - 2:44:51] ▶
on either side
[2:44:51 - 2:44:51] ▶
of a separating barrier
[2:44:51 - 2:44:53] ▶
called a tensor product
[2:44:53 - 2:44:54] ▶
and you get them
[2:44:54 - 2:44:55] ▶
to mate
[2:44:55 - 2:44:56] ▶
and pair off.
[2:44:56 - 2:44:58] ▶
So he contracted
[2:44:58 - 2:45:00] ▶
the Riemannian curvature
[2:45:00 - 2:45:02] ▶
to get the Ricci curvature.
[2:45:02 - 2:45:03] ▶
He contracted that
[2:45:03 - 2:45:04] ▶
to get scalar curvature.
[2:45:04 - 2:45:05] ▶
He spun the scalar curvature
[2:45:05 - 2:45:06] ▶
around 180 degrees,
[2:45:06 - 2:45:08] ▶
plugged it back
[2:45:08 - 2:45:09] ▶
into the formula
[2:45:09 - 2:45:09] ▶
and got rid of
[2:45:09 - 2:45:10] ▶
this vile curvature.
[2:45:10 - 2:45:12] ▶
Whatever that operation was,
[2:45:12 - 2:45:13] ▶
that was the central idea
[2:45:13 - 2:45:14] ▶
of general relativity.
[2:45:14 - 2:45:15] ▶
There's no ability
[2:45:17 - 2:45:19] ▶
to take the full curvature tensors
[2:45:19 - 2:45:20] ▶
that occur
[2:45:20 - 2:45:21] ▶
in the standard model
[2:45:21 - 2:45:22] ▶
and break them up
[2:45:22 - 2:45:23] ▶
into components.
[2:45:23 - 2:45:23] ▶
You can't do
[2:45:24 - 2:45:25] ▶
this contraction game.
[2:45:25 - 2:45:26] ▶
And the other thing
[2:45:26 - 2:45:28] ▶
Einstein had
[2:45:28 - 2:45:29] ▶
that the standard model
[2:45:29 - 2:45:30] ▶
didn't is that
[2:45:30 - 2:45:30] ▶
there's a central reference
[2:45:30 - 2:45:32] ▶
object called
[2:45:32 - 2:45:33] ▶
the Levy-Cevita connection
[2:45:33 - 2:45:34] ▶
and there's no analog
[2:45:34 - 2:45:35] ▶
for that
[2:45:35 - 2:45:36] ▶
in the connections
[2:45:36 - 2:45:37] ▶
that give us photons
[2:45:37 - 2:45:38] ▶
and W and Z particles
[2:45:38 - 2:45:40] ▶
and gluons.
[2:45:40 - 2:45:41] ▶
So
[2:45:42 - 2:45:42] ▶
in the case
[2:45:42 - 2:45:44] ▶
of the standard model,
[2:45:44 - 2:45:46] ▶
you've got
[2:45:47 - 2:45:47] ▶
if my arm here
[2:45:47 - 2:45:50] ▶
is space-time
[2:45:50 - 2:45:51] ▶
and this is the data
[2:45:51 - 2:45:52] ▶
of the particles,
[2:45:52 - 2:45:53] ▶
the data of the particles
[2:45:53 - 2:45:55] ▶
can move around
[2:45:55 - 2:45:56] ▶
without moving
[2:45:56 - 2:45:57] ▶
space-time.
[2:45:57 - 2:45:58] ▶
In general relativity,
[2:45:59 - 2:46:00] ▶
if you think about this
[2:46:01 - 2:46:02] ▶
as the XY plane,
[2:46:02 - 2:46:03] ▶
moving the X-axis
[2:46:03 - 2:46:05] ▶
affects the Y-axis.
[2:46:05 - 2:46:06] ▶
Okay?
[2:46:07 - 2:46:08] ▶
The incompatibility
[2:46:10 - 2:46:12] ▶
between the advantages
[2:46:12 - 2:46:13] ▶
of those two
[2:46:13 - 2:46:14] ▶
different pictures,
[2:46:14 - 2:46:14] ▶
gauge equivalence
[2:46:15 - 2:46:16] ▶
in the case
[2:46:16 - 2:46:17] ▶
of the standard model
[2:46:17 - 2:46:18] ▶
and contraction
[2:46:18 - 2:46:19] ▶
and a specified
[2:46:19 - 2:46:20] ▶
Levy-Cevita connection,
[2:46:20 - 2:46:21] ▶
that difference
[2:46:21 - 2:46:23] ▶
gives two sets
[2:46:23 - 2:46:25] ▶
of advantages
[2:46:25 - 2:46:26] ▶
to two different theories.
[2:46:26 - 2:46:27] ▶
Now, my work,
[2:46:27 - 2:46:28] ▶
the reason it's called
[2:46:28 - 2:46:29] ▶
Geometric Unity,
[2:46:29 - 2:46:29] ▶
nobody ever asked
[2:46:30 - 2:46:30] ▶
that question really,
[2:46:30 - 2:46:31] ▶
is that I said,
[2:46:31 - 2:46:33] ▶
are there any places
[2:46:33 - 2:46:34] ▶
where you get to use
[2:46:34 - 2:46:35] ▶
the advantages
[2:46:35 - 2:46:35] ▶
of both systems?
[2:46:35 - 2:46:36] ▶
And the answer
[2:46:36 - 2:46:38] ▶
turns out to be,
[2:46:38 - 2:46:39] ▶
well, certainly in general
[2:46:40 - 2:46:41] ▶
it won't work.
[2:46:41 - 2:46:42] ▶
But for some
[2:46:43 - 2:46:43] ▶
completely absurdly
[2:46:43 - 2:46:45] ▶
narrow class
[2:46:45 - 2:46:46] ▶
of theories,
[2:46:46 - 2:46:46] ▶
you get all the benefits
[2:46:47 - 2:46:48] ▶
of both systems.
[2:46:48 - 2:46:49] ▶
And then you check
[2:46:50 - 2:46:50] ▶
the particle table
[2:46:50 - 2:46:51] ▶
of the standard model
[2:46:51 - 2:46:53] ▶
and you're exactly
[2:46:53 - 2:46:54] ▶
in that freak class.
[2:46:54 - 2:46:55] ▶
Hmm.
[2:46:56 - 2:46:56] ▶
So, like,
[2:46:57 - 2:46:58] ▶
how can you not devote
[2:46:58 - 2:46:59] ▶
your life to that fact?
[2:46:59 - 2:47:00] ▶
I just don't even
[2:47:00 - 2:47:01] ▶
understand it.
[2:47:01 - 2:47:02] ▶
So, that thing
[2:47:02 - 2:47:04] ▶
is having to do
[2:47:04 - 2:47:05] ▶
with the fact
[2:47:05 - 2:47:06] ▶
that we didn't gauge
[2:47:06 - 2:47:09] ▶
gravity properly.
[2:47:09 - 2:47:11] ▶
And there's old work
[2:47:11 - 2:47:12] ▶
about this
[2:47:12 - 2:47:13] ▶
with Einstein and Cartan,
[2:47:13 - 2:47:14] ▶
with McDowell
[2:47:15 - 2:47:15] ▶
and Mansouri,
[2:47:15 - 2:47:16] ▶
with a bunch
[2:47:17 - 2:47:18] ▶
of other people
[2:47:18 - 2:47:18] ▶
who've had versions
[2:47:18 - 2:47:20] ▶
of this idea.
[2:47:20 - 2:47:21] ▶
But it all got blown away
[2:47:22 - 2:47:24] ▶
by quantum gravity.
[2:47:24 - 2:47:25] ▶
Hmm.
[2:47:25 - 2:47:25] ▶
Do you think that was
[2:47:26 - 2:47:27] ▶
by design or emergent?
[2:47:27 - 2:47:29] ▶
Hmm.
[2:47:29 - 2:47:29] ▶
It sounds insane
[2:47:32 - 2:47:33] ▶
to say by design.
[2:47:33 - 2:47:35] ▶
But let me give you
[2:47:35 - 2:47:36] ▶
something that is insane,
[2:47:36 - 2:47:38] ▶
although modern people
[2:47:38 - 2:47:40] ▶
won't see it as such.
[2:47:40 - 2:47:41] ▶
It is insane
[2:47:41 - 2:47:42] ▶
to spend 42 years
[2:47:42 - 2:47:44] ▶
under the spell
[2:47:44 - 2:47:46] ▶
of a group of people
[2:47:46 - 2:47:48] ▶
you call leaders
[2:47:48 - 2:47:49] ▶
who've stagnated a field.
[2:47:49 - 2:47:50] ▶
In general,
[2:47:52 - 2:47:53] ▶
you have to ask the question,
[2:47:54 - 2:47:55] ▶
why is no one
[2:47:55 - 2:47:56] ▶
allowed to say,
[2:47:56 - 2:47:57] ▶
what is going on
[2:47:58 - 2:47:59] ▶
with David Gross,
[2:47:59 - 2:48:00] ▶
Lenny Susk,
[2:48:00 - 2:48:01] ▶
and Edward Witten,
[2:48:01 - 2:48:02] ▶
Andy Strominger,
[2:48:05 - 2:48:05] ▶
why are these people
[2:48:06 - 2:48:08] ▶
still our leading physicists?
[2:48:08 - 2:48:10] ▶
Hmm.
[2:48:11 - 2:48:11] ▶
I mean, this program failed.
[2:48:11 - 2:48:12] ▶
It's not the first
[2:48:13 - 2:48:13] ▶
failed program.
[2:48:13 - 2:48:14] ▶
We had a program
[2:48:14 - 2:48:15] ▶
associated with,
[2:48:15 - 2:48:17] ▶
with Reggie
[2:48:17 - 2:48:19] ▶
called the Reggie Calculus
[2:48:19 - 2:48:20] ▶
that was supposed
[2:48:20 - 2:48:21] ▶
to do great things
[2:48:21 - 2:48:22] ▶
and didn't work.
[2:48:22 - 2:48:22] ▶
There was a guy
[2:48:23 - 2:48:23] ▶
named Jeff Chu
[2:48:23 - 2:48:24] ▶
who had a bootstrap program
[2:48:24 - 2:48:26] ▶
and the S-Matrix
[2:48:26 - 2:48:27] ▶
thing that didn't work.
[2:48:27 - 2:48:29] ▶
We've had lots of ideas
[2:48:29 - 2:48:30] ▶
that don't work
[2:48:30 - 2:48:31] ▶
and it's part of the game
[2:48:31 - 2:48:32] ▶
and it's not a question
[2:48:32 - 2:48:33] ▶
of these are bad people,
[2:48:33 - 2:48:35] ▶
but they failed scientifically.
[2:48:35 - 2:48:36] ▶
We can't say that.
[2:48:37 - 2:48:39] ▶
We can't say
[2:48:39 - 2:48:41] ▶
that we are slavishly devoted
[2:48:41 - 2:48:43] ▶
to making sure
[2:48:43 - 2:48:44] ▶
that we don't offend
[2:48:44 - 2:48:46] ▶
our leaders
[2:48:46 - 2:48:47] ▶
and we're going to insult
[2:48:47 - 2:48:48] ▶
everyone else
[2:48:48 - 2:48:48] ▶
and literally,
[2:48:48 - 2:48:50] ▶
we're just going to
[2:48:50 - 2:48:50] ▶
professionally insult
[2:48:50 - 2:48:51] ▶
everyone who's been saying
[2:48:51 - 2:48:53] ▶
for 42 years,
[2:48:53 - 2:48:54] ▶
this is not sensible.
[2:48:54 - 2:48:56] ▶
You saw what happened
[2:48:56 - 2:48:57] ▶
with Eric.
[2:48:57 - 2:48:57] ▶
I sort of had to say,
[2:48:58 - 2:49:01] ▶
you know,
[2:49:01 - 2:49:01] ▶
none of these ideas
[2:49:01 - 2:49:02] ▶
are remotely plausible
[2:49:02 - 2:49:03] ▶
that you're exploring.
[2:49:03 - 2:49:04] ▶
It wasn't personal.
[2:49:04 - 2:49:05] ▶
It wasn't mean.
[2:49:05 - 2:49:06] ▶
He sort of said,
[2:49:07 - 2:49:07] ▶
yeah, I know that now,
[2:49:07 - 2:49:08] ▶
but you can kind of tell
[2:49:09 - 2:49:11] ▶
at the beginning
[2:49:11 - 2:49:12] ▶
none of this is going to work.
[2:49:12 - 2:49:13] ▶
And so both in string theory
[2:49:14 - 2:49:16] ▶
and in what he's doing,
[2:49:16 - 2:49:18] ▶
which is,
[2:49:18 - 2:49:18] ▶
accepting that craft exists
[2:49:18 - 2:49:21] ▶
and are retrieved
[2:49:21 - 2:49:22] ▶
and can do miraculous things
[2:49:22 - 2:49:24] ▶
and the constraints are,
[2:49:24 - 2:49:26] ▶
he takes for himself,
[2:49:26 - 2:49:27] ▶
I'm not going to challenge
[2:49:27 - 2:49:28] ▶
the standard model
[2:49:28 - 2:49:29] ▶
or general relativity.
[2:49:29 - 2:49:29] ▶
What's the closest I can get
[2:49:30 - 2:49:32] ▶
to science fiction
[2:49:32 - 2:49:33] ▶
from known science fact?
[2:49:33 - 2:49:34] ▶
And the answer is
[2:49:35 - 2:49:36] ▶
you're a million miles away, buddy.
[2:49:36 - 2:49:38] ▶
There's no,
[2:49:38 - 2:49:38] ▶
you're not even,
[2:49:38 - 2:49:39] ▶
you're not in the right zip code.
[2:49:39 - 2:49:40] ▶
Is your sense
[2:49:41 - 2:49:42] ▶
that there is a vital core
[2:49:42 - 2:49:44] ▶
that does have
[2:49:44 - 2:49:46] ▶
either geometric unity,
[2:49:46 - 2:49:48] ▶
or some frameworks
[2:49:48 - 2:49:50] ▶
that are closer
[2:49:50 - 2:49:51] ▶
to ontological truth
[2:49:51 - 2:49:52] ▶
than general relativity
[2:49:52 - 2:49:53] ▶
and quantum field theory?
[2:49:53 - 2:49:55] ▶
You know,
[2:49:56 - 2:49:56] ▶
you can't ask me
[2:49:56 - 2:49:57] ▶
because my feeling
[2:49:57 - 2:49:58] ▶
is I wouldn't have spent
[2:49:58 - 2:49:59] ▶
the same 42 years
[2:49:59 - 2:50:00] ▶
on geometric unity
[2:50:00 - 2:50:01] ▶
if I wasn't pretty confident
[2:50:01 - 2:50:04] ▶
that this is right.
[2:50:04 - 2:50:07] ▶
Okay,
[2:50:07 - 2:50:07] ▶
so then the question would be
[2:50:07 - 2:50:09] ▶
do you think
[2:50:09 - 2:50:09] ▶
that somebody else
[2:50:09 - 2:50:10] ▶
or some other entity
[2:50:10 - 2:50:12] ▶
on the inside
[2:50:12 - 2:50:14] ▶
of all of this,
[2:50:14 - 2:50:15] ▶
because what's interesting
[2:50:15 - 2:50:16] ▶
is you have
[2:50:16 - 2:50:17] ▶
a similar thing
[2:50:17 - 2:50:17] ▶
going on in UFO world
[2:50:17 - 2:50:19] ▶
as what seemed
[2:50:19 - 2:50:20] ▶
to go on
[2:50:20 - 2:50:21] ▶
with Epstein,
[2:50:21 - 2:50:21] ▶
where you have
[2:50:22 - 2:50:23] ▶
this bizarre
[2:50:23 - 2:50:24] ▶
telephone game
[2:50:24 - 2:50:26] ▶
of terms
[2:50:26 - 2:50:27] ▶
being,
[2:50:27 - 2:50:28] ▶
you have like,
[2:50:28 - 2:50:29] ▶
in UFO world,
[2:50:29 - 2:50:30] ▶
it's like extended
[2:50:30 - 2:50:30] ▶
electrodynamics
[2:50:30 - 2:50:31] ▶
and all these
[2:50:31 - 2:50:32] ▶
like weird frameworks
[2:50:32 - 2:50:32] ▶
that nobody knows
[2:50:32 - 2:50:33] ▶
how to define,
[2:50:33 - 2:50:34] ▶
and then you read
[2:50:35 - 2:50:35] ▶
those Epstein emails
[2:50:35 - 2:50:36] ▶
and he's like,
[2:50:36 - 2:50:37] ▶
boost your physics.
[2:50:38 - 2:50:39] ▶
He's like,
[2:50:39 - 2:50:40] ▶
you know,
[2:50:40 - 2:50:40] ▶
time is actually
[2:50:40 - 2:50:41] ▶
just a function
[2:50:41 - 2:50:42] ▶
of the vibration
[2:50:42 - 2:50:42] ▶
of cesium atoms,
[2:50:42 - 2:50:43] ▶
and he's infiltrating
[2:50:43 - 2:50:46] ▶
the math department
[2:50:46 - 2:50:47] ▶
at Harvard
[2:50:47 - 2:50:48] ▶
and somehow has
[2:50:48 - 2:50:49] ▶
a lot of sway
[2:50:49 - 2:50:50] ▶
with these people
[2:50:50 - 2:50:50] ▶
and is speaking
[2:50:50 - 2:50:52] ▶
like a person
[2:50:52 - 2:50:54] ▶
who was maybe
[2:50:54 - 2:50:55] ▶
told some real stuff.
[2:50:55 - 2:50:56] ▶
This is the thing
[2:50:56 - 2:50:57] ▶
that's very hard
[2:50:57 - 2:50:58] ▶
to convey
[2:50:58 - 2:50:59] ▶
because particularly
[2:50:59 - 2:51:00] ▶
academics and PhDs
[2:51:00 - 2:51:02] ▶
don't want to be conned
[2:51:02 - 2:51:05] ▶
like at all costs.
[2:51:05 - 2:51:06] ▶
My feeling is
[2:51:07 - 2:51:07] ▶
this is an extremely
[2:51:07 - 2:51:08] ▶
dumb way
[2:51:08 - 2:51:09] ▶
to go through life.
[2:51:09 - 2:51:09] ▶
You're going to be conned
[2:51:11 - 2:51:13] ▶
for sure.
[2:51:13 - 2:51:13] ▶
Try to figure out
[2:51:14 - 2:51:16] ▶
who's saying something
[2:51:16 - 2:51:16] ▶
interesting by listening.
[2:51:16 - 2:51:18] ▶
And in my estimation,
[2:51:19 - 2:51:21] ▶
Epstein was saying
[2:51:22 - 2:51:24] ▶
interesting things to me
[2:51:24 - 2:51:25] ▶
that didn't originate
[2:51:26 - 2:51:28] ▶
from his mind.
[2:51:28 - 2:51:29] ▶
It's like they've hired
[2:51:30 - 2:51:31] ▶
an actor to play
[2:51:31 - 2:51:33] ▶
a hedge fund manager.
[2:51:33 - 2:51:34] ▶
I only met him once.
[2:51:34 - 2:51:36] ▶
It was probably
[2:51:36 - 2:51:37] ▶
for about an hour or so.
[2:51:37 - 2:51:39] ▶
But he was an absolutely
[2:51:40 - 2:51:42] ▶
terrifying person
[2:51:42 - 2:51:43] ▶
to encounter.
[2:51:43 - 2:51:44] ▶
It would be surprising
[2:51:45 - 2:51:46] ▶
to me if I was alone
[2:51:46 - 2:51:47] ▶
in that I immediately
[2:51:47 - 2:51:48] ▶
had the suspicion
[2:51:48 - 2:51:49] ▶
that I was looking
[2:51:49 - 2:51:50] ▶
at somebody
[2:51:50 - 2:51:51] ▶
who had been constructed
[2:51:51 - 2:51:52] ▶
rather than something
[2:51:52 - 2:51:54] ▶
that had organically
[2:51:54 - 2:51:55] ▶
arisen within
[2:51:55 - 2:51:55] ▶
the financial community.
[2:51:55 - 2:51:56] ▶
It was like somebody
[2:51:56 - 2:51:58] ▶
who'd learned a phrase
[2:51:58 - 2:51:59] ▶
in a foreign language
[2:51:59 - 2:52:01] ▶
and he was repeating
[2:52:01 - 2:52:02] ▶
it as best he could.
[2:52:02 - 2:52:03] ▶
I don't think people
[2:52:05 - 2:52:06] ▶
really have a clear idea
[2:52:06 - 2:52:07] ▶
of how crazy
[2:52:07 - 2:52:08] ▶
that interview
[2:52:08 - 2:52:08] ▶
he gives to Bannon
[2:52:08 - 2:52:09] ▶
or the media training
[2:52:09 - 2:52:10] ▶
he was doing.
[2:52:10 - 2:52:11] ▶
He gets like
[2:52:12 - 2:52:12] ▶
eight things wrong
[2:52:12 - 2:52:13] ▶
in a row
[2:52:13 - 2:52:14] ▶
and people say,
[2:52:14 - 2:52:15] ▶
well, Eric,
[2:52:15 - 2:52:15] ▶
you were wrong.
[2:52:15 - 2:52:16] ▶
He clearly is a much
[2:52:16 - 2:52:17] ▶
better spoken,
[2:52:17 - 2:52:17] ▶
much more informed person.
[2:52:17 - 2:52:19] ▶
So he founded
[2:52:19 - 2:52:20] ▶
the Santa Fe Institute
[2:52:20 - 2:52:22] ▶
in 1990 to 93
[2:52:22 - 2:52:23] ▶
when it was founded
[2:52:23 - 2:52:24] ▶
in 1984
[2:52:24 - 2:52:25] ▶
by other people.
[2:52:25 - 2:52:26] ▶
So bizarre.
[2:52:28 - 2:52:28] ▶
Or this was around
[2:52:29 - 2:52:30] ▶
the time that
[2:52:30 - 2:52:30] ▶
Murray Gelman
[2:52:30 - 2:52:31] ▶
was naming quarks
[2:52:31 - 2:52:33] ▶
from a poem
[2:52:33 - 2:52:34] ▶
when quarks were named
[2:52:34 - 2:52:36] ▶
many years earlier.
[2:52:36 - 2:52:38] ▶
Says he was a good
[2:52:38 - 2:52:39] ▶
Wall Street trader
[2:52:39 - 2:52:40] ▶
because he had calculators.
[2:52:40 - 2:52:41] ▶
We had Texas instruments
[2:52:41 - 2:52:43] ▶
back then.
[2:52:43 - 2:52:44] ▶
Okay, so this is what
[2:52:44 - 2:52:46] ▶
I saw with like
[2:52:46 - 2:52:47] ▶
Bob Lazar, you know?
[2:52:47 - 2:52:49] ▶
Eric latched onto the fact
[2:52:49 - 2:52:51] ▶
that Lazar is lying.
[2:52:51 - 2:52:52] ▶
Okay, so fine.
[2:52:52 - 2:52:53] ▶
He's lying.
[2:52:53 - 2:52:53] ▶
It doesn't mean
[2:52:54 - 2:52:54] ▶
it's uninteresting.
[2:52:54 - 2:52:55] ▶
Not only is it
[2:52:56 - 2:52:57] ▶
not uninteresting,
[2:52:57 - 2:52:58] ▶
but I think it's
[2:52:59 - 2:53:00] ▶
simultaneously,
[2:53:00 - 2:53:00] ▶
it's a little strange
[2:53:01 - 2:53:01] ▶
to say,
[2:53:01 - 2:53:02] ▶
I know that there is
[2:53:02 - 2:53:04] ▶
a long-term
[2:53:04 - 2:53:06] ▶
legacy UFO
[2:53:06 - 2:53:07] ▶
reverse engineering program
[2:53:07 - 2:53:08] ▶
than the one guy
[2:53:08 - 2:53:09] ▶
that comes out
[2:53:09 - 2:53:10] ▶
where I think
[2:53:10 - 2:53:11] ▶
a lot of his stuff
[2:53:11 - 2:53:12] ▶
checks, to be honest.
[2:53:12 - 2:53:13] ▶
And I think
[2:53:13 - 2:53:14] ▶
you can
[2:53:14 - 2:53:15] ▶
easily character
[2:53:15 - 2:53:17] ▶
assassinate the person
[2:53:17 - 2:53:18] ▶
by saying,
[2:53:18 - 2:53:18] ▶
you know,
[2:53:18 - 2:53:19] ▶
he was involved in XYZ.
[2:53:19 - 2:53:20] ▶
But a lot of his
[2:53:20 - 2:53:21] ▶
details check.
[2:53:21 - 2:53:22] ▶
Again, my point is
[2:53:23 - 2:53:23] ▶
assume that he's
[2:53:23 - 2:53:25] ▶
schizophrenic,
[2:53:25 - 2:53:26] ▶
assume that he's
[2:53:26 - 2:53:28] ▶
got delusions of grandeur.
[2:53:28 - 2:53:29] ▶
I don't know.
[2:53:29 - 2:53:30] ▶
I'd never had the thought
[2:53:32 - 2:53:34] ▶
before
[2:53:34 - 2:53:35] ▶
that the topological
[2:53:35 - 2:53:37] ▶
instanton sector
[2:53:37 - 2:53:39] ▶
of QCD
[2:53:39 - 2:53:40] ▶
based on
[2:53:40 - 2:53:41] ▶
the Pontriagin class
[2:53:41 - 2:53:43] ▶
could be transgressed
[2:53:43 - 2:53:45] ▶
to a Chern-Simons
[2:53:45 - 2:53:46] ▶
and Chern-Simons
[2:53:46 - 2:53:46] ▶
is close to
[2:53:46 - 2:53:47] ▶
Einstein-Hilbert.
[2:53:47 - 2:53:48] ▶
And I only had that
[2:53:50 - 2:53:51] ▶
because I was just
[2:53:51 - 2:53:52] ▶
so sickened by what
[2:53:52 - 2:53:53] ▶
Lazar was saying
[2:53:53 - 2:53:54] ▶
as if he's talking,
[2:53:54 - 2:53:55] ▶
I'm going to explain
[2:53:55 - 2:53:56] ▶
the world to you kids
[2:53:56 - 2:53:57] ▶
and he starts talking garbage.
[2:53:57 - 2:53:58] ▶
When did you hear that
[2:53:59 - 2:54:00] ▶
and have this idea
[2:54:00 - 2:54:01] ▶
about the theta sector
[2:54:01 - 2:54:02] ▶
and then look at it?
[2:54:02 - 2:54:03] ▶
It's an interesting question.
[2:54:03 - 2:54:04] ▶
Joe Rogan,
[2:54:04 - 2:54:05] ▶
who's,
[2:54:05 - 2:54:06] ▶
you know,
[2:54:06 - 2:54:06] ▶
a friend wanted me
[2:54:06 - 2:54:07] ▶
to sit down
[2:54:07 - 2:54:08] ▶
with Bob Lazar.
[2:54:08 - 2:54:08] ▶
And, you know,
[2:54:09 - 2:54:10] ▶
I sat down
[2:54:10 - 2:54:10] ▶
with Terrence Howard
[2:54:10 - 2:54:11] ▶
and I have a great deal
[2:54:11 - 2:54:13] ▶
of fun with Terrence
[2:54:13 - 2:54:15] ▶
and Terrence and I
[2:54:15 - 2:54:15] ▶
get on,
[2:54:15 - 2:54:16] ▶
although sometimes
[2:54:16 - 2:54:17] ▶
he threatens me
[2:54:17 - 2:54:18] ▶
and I hate that.
[2:54:18 - 2:54:18] ▶
But Terrence,
[2:54:20 - 2:54:20] ▶
you know,
[2:54:21 - 2:54:21] ▶
I was praiseworthy
[2:54:21 - 2:54:24] ▶
in the one or two areas
[2:54:24 - 2:54:26] ▶
where Terrence was
[2:54:26 - 2:54:26] ▶
doing something really new
[2:54:26 - 2:54:28] ▶
and in general
[2:54:28 - 2:54:29] ▶
I had to pour cold water
[2:54:29 - 2:54:30] ▶
on most everything else
[2:54:30 - 2:54:31] ▶
he said.
[2:54:31 - 2:54:31] ▶
And, you know,
[2:54:32 - 2:54:33] ▶
that's the price
[2:54:33 - 2:54:33] ▶
of being taken seriously
[2:54:33 - 2:54:34] ▶
by somebody like me.
[2:54:34 - 2:54:35] ▶
In the case of Bob Lazar,
[2:54:36 - 2:54:37] ▶
Joe once said,
[2:54:38 - 2:54:39] ▶
let's sit down.
[2:54:39 - 2:54:40] ▶
Now, I didn't,
[2:54:40 - 2:54:40] ▶
I wouldn't have done
[2:54:41 - 2:54:42] ▶
the Terrence episode
[2:54:42 - 2:54:43] ▶
if I didn't have something
[2:54:43 - 2:54:45] ▶
to say,
[2:54:45 - 2:54:45] ▶
which Terrence,
[2:54:45 - 2:54:46] ▶
which is positive,
[2:54:46 - 2:54:48] ▶
which is Terrence found
[2:54:48 - 2:54:49] ▶
one remarkable thing,
[2:54:49 - 2:54:50] ▶
at least.
[2:54:50 - 2:54:50] ▶
He just did.
[2:54:51 - 2:54:52] ▶
So with one remarkable thing,
[2:54:53 - 2:54:54] ▶
I'm willing to do it.
[2:54:54 - 2:54:55] ▶
Otherwise,
[2:54:55 - 2:54:55] ▶
it's a character assassination.
[2:54:55 - 2:54:56] ▶
I did not want to sit down
[2:54:57 - 2:54:59] ▶
with Bob Lazar
[2:54:59 - 2:54:59] ▶
and do a character assassination.
[2:54:59 - 2:55:02] ▶
Just characterologically,
[2:55:02 - 2:55:03] ▶
I don't like going after
[2:55:03 - 2:55:04] ▶
human beings.
[2:55:04 - 2:55:05] ▶
I go after institutions.
[2:55:05 - 2:55:06] ▶
Well, he would say
[2:55:07 - 2:55:07] ▶
he's not,
[2:55:07 - 2:55:08] ▶
he would say
[2:55:08 - 2:55:09] ▶
these are frameworks
[2:55:09 - 2:55:09] ▶
that were given to him.
[2:55:09 - 2:55:10] ▶
No, but he said
[2:55:10 - 2:55:11] ▶
that he was at MIT,
[2:55:11 - 2:55:12] ▶
let's say,
[2:55:12 - 2:55:13] ▶
the physics department.
[2:55:13 - 2:55:13] ▶
Right.
[2:55:13 - 2:55:14] ▶
So immediately,
[2:55:14 - 2:55:15] ▶
the problem is,
[2:55:15 - 2:55:17] ▶
is that whenever you get
[2:55:17 - 2:55:18] ▶
to real academic physics,
[2:55:18 - 2:55:21] ▶
the world shrinks
[2:55:21 - 2:55:22] ▶
to a tiny number of people.
[2:55:22 - 2:55:24] ▶
And I don't think
[2:55:25 - 2:55:26] ▶
that the outside world
[2:55:26 - 2:55:27] ▶
either appreciates
[2:55:27 - 2:55:28] ▶
one of two things
[2:55:28 - 2:55:29] ▶
about frontier physics.
[2:55:29 - 2:55:30] ▶
One, it's a tiny world
[2:55:30 - 2:55:33] ▶
because it's so difficult.
[2:55:33 - 2:55:34] ▶
And two,
[2:55:37 - 2:55:38] ▶
how vertical it is
[2:55:38 - 2:55:40] ▶
in terms of human ability.
[2:55:40 - 2:55:41] ▶
Did he say
[2:55:41 - 2:55:42] ▶
he was in the physics department,
[2:55:42 - 2:55:43] ▶
though?
[2:55:43 - 2:55:43] ▶
I don't think he did.
[2:55:43 - 2:55:44] ▶
I don't think so.
[2:55:45 - 2:55:45] ▶
I think Joe told me.
[2:55:45 - 2:55:47] ▶
There's a statement somewhere
[2:55:47 - 2:55:48] ▶
where he said he had physics
[2:55:48 - 2:55:49] ▶
at MIT and Caltech.
[2:55:49 - 2:55:50] ▶
Going back to the early 90s,
[2:55:50 - 2:55:52] ▶
that was part of the early.
[2:55:52 - 2:55:53] ▶
I think it was just MIT,
[2:55:53 - 2:55:55] ▶
but I think my read on it
[2:55:55 - 2:55:58] ▶
is that MIT is
[2:55:58 - 2:56:00] ▶
University-affiliated
[2:56:00 - 2:56:02] ▶
research center,
[2:56:02 - 2:56:03] ▶
UARC,
[2:56:03 - 2:56:04] ▶
and they do spooky shit.
[2:56:04 - 2:56:06] ▶
Well, Draper,
[2:56:07 - 2:56:08] ▶
for example,
[2:56:08 - 2:56:09] ▶
and Lincoln Labs.
[2:56:10 - 2:56:11] ▶
Right, MIT and Lincoln Labs.
[2:56:11 - 2:56:12] ▶
Yeah,
[2:56:12 - 2:56:12] ▶
are different sorts of entities.
[2:56:13 - 2:56:15] ▶
Exactly.
[2:56:15 - 2:56:16] ▶
You know,
[2:56:16 - 2:56:16] ▶
so the issue is,
[2:56:16 - 2:56:18] ▶
are you at MIT
[2:56:18 - 2:56:20] ▶
or are you really
[2:56:20 - 2:56:20] ▶
at Draper or Lincoln?
[2:56:20 - 2:56:22] ▶
Yeah,
[2:56:22 - 2:56:22] ▶
if you're talking to somebody
[2:56:22 - 2:56:23] ▶
from MIT and Lincoln Labs,
[2:56:23 - 2:56:24] ▶
you're not talking
[2:56:25 - 2:56:25] ▶
to MIT faculty.
[2:56:25 - 2:56:26] ▶
I don't know,
[2:56:26 - 2:56:28] ▶
but my sense is
[2:56:28 - 2:56:29] ▶
he was put there
[2:56:29 - 2:56:32] ▶
to work on
[2:56:32 - 2:56:34] ▶
something defense-related.
[2:56:34 - 2:56:38] ▶
Again,
[2:56:39 - 2:56:39] ▶
So like more like
[2:56:39 - 2:56:42] ▶
functional,
[2:56:42 - 2:56:42] ▶
not high-level theoretical,
[2:56:42 - 2:56:44] ▶
but.
[2:56:44 - 2:56:44] ▶
So you're asking me
[2:56:45 - 2:56:47] ▶
the question,
[2:56:47 - 2:56:48] ▶
how did I come to think
[2:56:48 - 2:56:49] ▶
about this thing
[2:56:49 - 2:56:50] ▶
from Bob Lazar?
[2:56:50 - 2:56:51] ▶
Yeah,
[2:56:51 - 2:56:51] ▶
when did gravity
[2:56:51 - 2:56:52] ▶
air sound like?
[2:56:52 - 2:56:52] ▶
So in order for me
[2:56:52 - 2:56:54] ▶
to sit down
[2:56:54 - 2:56:55] ▶
with Bob Lazar,
[2:56:55 - 2:56:56] ▶
according to my own rules
[2:56:56 - 2:56:58] ▶
for I don't hunt
[2:56:58 - 2:57:00] ▶
human beings
[2:57:00 - 2:57:00] ▶
in general
[2:57:00 - 2:57:02] ▶
unless they hunt me
[2:57:02 - 2:57:03] ▶
or unless there's
[2:57:03 - 2:57:05] ▶
no other option,
[2:57:05 - 2:57:06] ▶
I hunt institutions
[2:57:06 - 2:57:08] ▶
that are failing,
[2:57:08 - 2:57:09] ▶
I don't hunt people,
[2:57:09 - 2:57:10] ▶
I just don't like,
[2:57:10 - 2:57:11] ▶
I don't like the ethos.
[2:57:11 - 2:57:12] ▶
So in order for me
[2:57:12 - 2:57:13] ▶
to come on
[2:57:13 - 2:57:14] ▶
with Bob Lazar,
[2:57:14 - 2:57:15] ▶
I would have to find
[2:57:15 - 2:57:15] ▶
one thing credible
[2:57:15 - 2:57:18] ▶
in what he's saying.
[2:57:18 - 2:57:19] ▶
So I went over it
[2:57:20 - 2:57:21] ▶
and I tried to say,
[2:57:21 - 2:57:22] ▶
is there any way
[2:57:22 - 2:57:22] ▶
of making this make sense?
[2:57:22 - 2:57:23] ▶
And originally,
[2:57:24 - 2:57:24] ▶
I couldn't do it.
[2:57:24 - 2:57:25] ▶
I couldn't figure out
[2:57:25 - 2:57:25] ▶
this gravity wave A,
[2:57:25 - 2:57:26] ▶
gravity wave B,
[2:57:27 - 2:57:28] ▶
because he and I
[2:57:28 - 2:57:29] ▶
would get into it
[2:57:29 - 2:57:30] ▶
and it would be
[2:57:30 - 2:57:30] ▶
a very short,
[2:57:30 - 2:57:31] ▶
brutal,
[2:57:31 - 2:57:31] ▶
you know,
[2:57:33 - 2:57:33] ▶
it would be
[2:57:33 - 2:57:34] ▶
Askren versus Musvidal.
[2:57:34 - 2:57:35] ▶
I don't want to do that.
[2:57:35 - 2:57:36] ▶
And then I found that
[2:57:36 - 2:57:40] ▶
and that was the thing
[2:57:40 - 2:57:41] ▶
that was going to allow me
[2:57:41 - 2:57:42] ▶
to sit down with Bob Lazar.
[2:57:42 - 2:57:43] ▶
You could be saying something.
[2:57:43 - 2:57:45] ▶
The problem is,
[2:57:46 - 2:57:47] ▶
I don't think he'd be able
[2:57:47 - 2:57:47] ▶
to hang with
[2:57:47 - 2:57:48] ▶
that idea that he presents.
[2:57:48 - 2:57:49] ▶
Okay, but it's a formal possibility.
[2:57:49 - 2:57:52] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[2:57:52 - 2:57:52] ▶
I also don't think
[2:57:52 - 2:57:53] ▶
he would try
[2:57:53 - 2:57:54] ▶
as an author of the material,
[2:57:54 - 2:57:56] ▶
to your point,
[2:57:56 - 2:57:56] ▶
he would convey
[2:57:57 - 2:57:58] ▶
these are frameworks
[2:57:58 - 2:57:58] ▶
provided to me elsewhere.
[2:57:58 - 2:58:00] ▶
He wouldn't try to take
[2:58:00 - 2:58:02] ▶
technical ownership
[2:58:02 - 2:58:03] ▶
of gravity A
[2:58:03 - 2:58:04] ▶
and gravity B.
[2:58:04 - 2:58:04] ▶
Well, the other thing
[2:58:05 - 2:58:05] ▶
is that I would say
[2:58:05 - 2:58:06] ▶
that even mathematicians
[2:58:06 - 2:58:08] ▶
and physicists
[2:58:08 - 2:58:08] ▶
really get this wrong
[2:58:08 - 2:58:09] ▶
and the person
[2:58:09 - 2:58:10] ▶
who didn't get it wrong
[2:58:10 - 2:58:11] ▶
bizarrely was Jeff Epstein,
[2:58:11 - 2:58:12] ▶
which means that
[2:58:12 - 2:58:13] ▶
he's talking to somebody.
[2:58:13 - 2:58:14] ▶
In general,
[2:58:15 - 2:58:16] ▶
we do a bad job
[2:58:16 - 2:58:19] ▶
of counting
[2:58:19 - 2:58:20] ▶
the degree
[2:58:20 - 2:58:23] ▶
of a differential equation.
[2:58:23 - 2:58:24] ▶
So if differential equations
[2:58:25 - 2:58:26] ▶
are how we tell
[2:58:26 - 2:58:27] ▶
how the world develops,
[2:58:27 - 2:58:28] ▶
the standard way
[2:58:29 - 2:58:30] ▶
of figuring out
[2:58:30 - 2:58:30] ▶
the degree
[2:58:30 - 2:58:31] ▶
of a differential equation
[2:58:31 - 2:58:32] ▶
is saying,
[2:58:32 - 2:58:32] ▶
take the fields
[2:58:32 - 2:58:33] ▶
that are in it
[2:58:33 - 2:58:34] ▶
and count the maximal
[2:58:34 - 2:58:36] ▶
number of derivatives
[2:58:36 - 2:58:37] ▶
that are taken
[2:58:37 - 2:58:38] ▶
of those fields
[2:58:38 - 2:58:39] ▶
before you get
[2:58:39 - 2:58:40] ▶
to the equations.
[2:58:40 - 2:58:40] ▶
And that would say
[2:58:42 - 2:58:44] ▶
that the Einstein field
[2:58:44 - 2:58:45] ▶
equations are second order
[2:58:45 - 2:58:46] ▶
and the Maxwell's equations
[2:58:46 - 2:58:49] ▶
are second order.
[2:58:49 - 2:58:49] ▶
There's a different thing
[2:58:50 - 2:58:51] ▶
you can do,
[2:58:51 - 2:58:51] ▶
which is you can say,
[2:58:52 - 2:58:52] ▶
okay,
[2:58:53 - 2:58:53] ▶
in fundamental force law,
[2:58:54 - 2:58:56] ▶
first spot
[2:58:56 - 2:58:57] ▶
the curvature tensor
[2:58:57 - 2:58:58] ▶
and then tell me
[2:58:58 - 2:59:00] ▶
how many derivatives
[2:59:00 - 2:59:00] ▶
I take of the curvature
[2:59:00 - 2:59:02] ▶
tensor.
[2:59:02 - 2:59:02] ▶
In that case,
[2:59:03 - 2:59:04] ▶
those are no longer
[2:59:04 - 2:59:04] ▶
the same.
[2:59:04 - 2:59:05] ▶
Einstein's theory
[2:59:06 - 2:59:07] ▶
would be zero with order
[2:59:07 - 2:59:08] ▶
in that way of writing it
[2:59:08 - 2:59:10] ▶
and Yang-Mills theory
[2:59:10 - 2:59:11] ▶
would be first order
[2:59:11 - 2:59:12] ▶
because you take
[2:59:12 - 2:59:13] ▶
one degree in Yang,
[2:59:13 - 2:59:14] ▶
one differential
[2:59:14 - 2:59:15] ▶
in Yang-Mills theory,
[2:59:15 - 2:59:16] ▶
you take zero difference,
[2:59:16 - 2:59:17] ▶
you just do linear algebra
[2:59:18 - 2:59:19] ▶
to the curvature tensor
[2:59:19 - 2:59:21] ▶
in general relativity.
[2:59:21 - 2:59:23] ▶
So,
[2:59:24 - 2:59:24] ▶
I don't think
[2:59:25 - 2:59:26] ▶
most people realize
[2:59:26 - 2:59:28] ▶
the extent to which
[2:59:28 - 2:59:29] ▶
the Chern-Simons
[2:59:29 - 2:59:30] ▶
and Einstein-Hilberts
[2:59:30 - 2:59:31] ▶
are basically playing
[2:59:32 - 2:59:33] ▶
very similar roles
[2:59:33 - 2:59:35] ▶
in the two theories.
[2:59:35 - 2:59:37] ▶
One of them is
[2:59:37 - 2:59:37] ▶
Romanian,
[2:59:37 - 2:59:38] ▶
one of them is
[2:59:38 - 2:59:38] ▶
Erismanian,
[2:59:38 - 2:59:39] ▶
and the key features
[2:59:40 - 2:59:43] ▶
that they're both
[2:59:43 - 2:59:44] ▶
second,
[2:59:44 - 2:59:44] ▶
they're both zero with order
[2:59:44 - 2:59:46] ▶
in the curvature
[2:59:46 - 2:59:47] ▶
when you take the
[2:59:47 - 2:59:47] ▶
Ola-Lagrange equation,
[2:59:47 - 2:59:48] ▶
which is very hard to do.
[2:59:48 - 2:59:49] ▶
That thing,
[2:59:51 - 2:59:52] ▶
that property,
[2:59:52 - 2:59:53] ▶
means that there's
[2:59:53 - 2:59:55] ▶
a very strong tie,
[2:59:55 - 2:59:56] ▶
which is more broadly
[2:59:56 - 2:59:57] ▶
accepted between
[2:59:57 - 2:59:59] ▶
Chern-Simons,
[2:59:59 - 3:00:01] ▶
which currently lives
[3:00:01 - 3:00:02] ▶
only in dimension three
[3:00:02 - 3:00:03] ▶
in its most strict sense,
[3:00:03 - 3:00:05] ▶
and Einstein-Hilbert,
[3:00:06 - 3:00:07] ▶
which can live
[3:00:07 - 3:00:08] ▶
in any dimension.
[3:00:08 - 3:00:08] ▶
So,
[3:00:10 - 3:00:10] ▶
you know,
[3:00:11 - 3:00:11] ▶
look,
[3:00:11 - 3:00:12] ▶
there's a hope.
[3:00:12 - 3:00:12] ▶
I just don't think
[3:00:12 - 3:00:13] ▶
that most people
[3:00:13 - 3:00:14] ▶
think about
[3:00:14 - 3:00:15] ▶
geometric physics
[3:00:15 - 3:00:18] ▶
in this way.
[3:00:18 - 3:00:19] ▶
Well,
[3:00:19 - 3:00:19] ▶
interesting connection.
[3:00:20 - 3:00:21] ▶
Chern-Simons
[3:00:21 - 3:00:22] ▶
is named after
[3:00:22 - 3:00:23] ▶
who and who?
[3:00:23 - 3:00:24] ▶
SS Chern
[3:00:25 - 3:00:26] ▶
and Jim Simons.
[3:00:26 - 3:00:27] ▶
And Jim Simons.
[3:00:28 - 3:00:28] ▶
And that takes us back,
[3:00:28 - 3:00:30] ▶
possibly,
[3:00:30 - 3:00:31] ▶
to Renaissance Technologies,
[3:00:31 - 3:00:33] ▶
who,
[3:00:33 - 3:00:34] ▶
what has the largest
[3:00:34 - 3:00:35] ▶
concentration of
[3:00:35 - 3:00:36] ▶
differential geometers
[3:00:36 - 3:00:37] ▶
in the U.S.?
[3:00:37 - 3:00:38] ▶
Well, that's,
[3:00:38 - 3:00:39] ▶
so look,
[3:00:39 - 3:00:39] ▶
I more or less accused
[3:00:39 - 3:00:41] ▶
Jim Simons of this
[3:00:41 - 3:00:42] ▶
shortly before he died.
[3:00:42 - 3:00:43] ▶
And I told him.
[3:00:45 - 3:00:46] ▶
I mean,
[3:00:46 - 3:00:47] ▶
it was very collegial
[3:00:47 - 3:00:48] ▶
and very positive,
[3:00:48 - 3:00:49] ▶
but I said,
[3:00:49 - 3:00:50] ▶
you do realize
[3:00:50 - 3:00:52] ▶
that you have
[3:00:52 - 3:00:53] ▶
the closest Lagrangian
[3:00:53 - 3:00:54] ▶
to Einstein-Hilbert.
[3:00:54 - 3:00:55] ▶
We don't usually talk
[3:00:55 - 3:00:56] ▶
about Simons
[3:00:56 - 3:00:57] ▶
versus Einstein.
[3:00:57 - 3:00:58] ▶
What did he say?
[3:00:59 - 3:01:00] ▶
Well,
[3:01:01 - 3:01:02] ▶
then we have this
[3:01:02 - 3:01:02] ▶
completely bizarre interchange.
[3:01:02 - 3:01:04] ▶
So he wants me
[3:01:04 - 3:01:05] ▶
to tell him more.
[3:01:05 - 3:01:05] ▶
So I explain
[3:01:06 - 3:01:06] ▶
that essentially
[3:01:06 - 3:01:07] ▶
in dimension three,
[3:01:07 - 3:01:11] ▶
your object,
[3:01:12 - 3:01:14] ▶
which is actually
[3:01:14 - 3:01:15] ▶
a transgression,
[3:01:15 - 3:01:16] ▶
misinterpreted
[3:01:16 - 3:01:17] ▶
as an action
[3:01:17 - 3:01:18] ▶
or a Lagrangian,
[3:01:18 - 3:01:19] ▶
as the closest thing
[3:01:20 - 3:01:22] ▶
to the characteristics
[3:01:22 - 3:01:23] ▶
of the Einstein-Hilbert action,
[3:01:23 - 3:01:24] ▶
which is the integral
[3:01:24 - 3:01:25] ▶
of the scalar curvature
[3:01:25 - 3:01:26] ▶
integrated over
[3:01:26 - 3:01:27] ▶
the space-time manifold.
[3:01:27 - 3:01:28] ▶
And I said,
[3:01:29 - 3:01:30] ▶
in dimension three,
[3:01:30 - 3:01:33] ▶
you don't have
[3:01:33 - 3:01:34] ▶
any vial curvature
[3:01:34 - 3:01:34] ▶
to get rid of
[3:01:34 - 3:01:35] ▶
the way Einstein
[3:01:35 - 3:01:36] ▶
had to get rid
[3:01:36 - 3:01:36] ▶
of the vial curvature
[3:01:36 - 3:01:37] ▶
and discard it
[3:01:37 - 3:01:39] ▶
as he filleted
[3:01:39 - 3:01:40] ▶
the rest of the
[3:01:40 - 3:01:40] ▶
Riemann curvature tensor.
[3:01:40 - 3:01:42] ▶
And you don't have
[3:01:42 - 3:01:45] ▶
the gauge
[3:01:45 - 3:01:46] ▶
benefit
[3:01:46 - 3:01:48] ▶
of your action,
[3:01:48 - 3:01:50] ▶
you've churned Simons,
[3:01:50 - 3:01:51] ▶
in the Einsteinian case.
[3:01:52 - 3:01:53] ▶
But otherwise,
[3:01:54 - 3:01:54] ▶
they're extraordinarily
[3:01:54 - 3:01:55] ▶
similar.
[3:01:55 - 3:01:56] ▶
Did you know
[3:01:57 - 3:01:58] ▶
that they're both
[3:01:58 - 3:01:58] ▶
inside of a parent theory?
[3:01:58 - 3:02:01] ▶
And the parent theory
[3:02:02 - 3:02:03] ▶
combines Einstein-Hilbert
[3:02:03 - 3:02:05] ▶
and churned Simons
[3:02:05 - 3:02:07] ▶
and new stuff.
[3:02:07 - 3:02:11] ▶
And that's what
[3:02:12 - 3:02:13] ▶
geometric unity does.
[3:02:13 - 3:02:14] ▶
Geometric unity
[3:02:15 - 3:02:16] ▶
gauges gravity
[3:02:16 - 3:02:17] ▶
effectively
[3:02:17 - 3:02:18] ▶
and
[3:02:18 - 3:02:20] ▶
gives you contraction.
[3:02:20 - 3:02:23] ▶
So you're both
[3:02:23 - 3:02:24] ▶
contracting and gauging,
[3:02:24 - 3:02:25] ▶
which you're not supposed
[3:02:25 - 3:02:26] ▶
to be able to do
[3:02:26 - 3:02:27] ▶
under most circumstances.
[3:02:27 - 3:02:28] ▶
And I said,
[3:02:29 - 3:02:30] ▶
you're going to have
[3:02:30 - 3:02:31] ▶
a role in life
[3:02:31 - 3:02:32] ▶
that is much closer
[3:02:32 - 3:02:33] ▶
to Albert Einstein's
[3:02:33 - 3:02:35] ▶
when this is all done,
[3:02:35 - 3:02:36] ▶
not that you're making
[3:02:36 - 3:02:38] ▶
an Einsteinian discovery,
[3:02:38 - 3:02:39] ▶
but the thing
[3:02:39 - 3:02:40] ▶
that will replace Einstein
[3:02:40 - 3:02:42] ▶
will also
[3:02:42 - 3:02:43] ▶
explain the work
[3:02:43 - 3:02:45] ▶
that you did.
[3:02:45 - 3:02:46] ▶
And he said,
[3:02:47 - 3:02:47] ▶
this is unbelievably
[3:02:47 - 3:02:49] ▶
fascinating.
[3:02:49 - 3:02:49] ▶
You have to come
[3:02:49 - 3:02:50] ▶
to State University
[3:02:50 - 3:02:51] ▶
of Stony Brook
[3:02:51 - 3:02:52] ▶
to the Simon Center
[3:02:52 - 3:02:53] ▶
for Geometry and Physics
[3:02:53 - 3:02:54] ▶
and spend a year
[3:02:54 - 3:02:56] ▶
and teach us this.
[3:02:56 - 3:02:57] ▶
Whoa.
[3:02:58 - 3:02:58] ▶
So I said,
[3:02:58 - 3:02:59] ▶
okay,
[3:02:59 - 3:03:00] ▶
I'm moved,
[3:03:01 - 3:03:03] ▶
but I'd like
[3:03:03 - 3:03:04] ▶
nothing better.
[3:03:04 - 3:03:05] ▶
I said,
[3:03:05 - 3:03:06] ▶
you're just going
[3:03:07 - 3:03:07] ▶
to have to understand
[3:03:07 - 3:03:08] ▶
that I have a family
[3:03:08 - 3:03:09] ▶
and I have a son
[3:03:09 - 3:03:10] ▶
who's finishing
[3:03:10 - 3:03:12] ▶
his last year
[3:03:12 - 3:03:13] ▶
of high school.
[3:03:13 - 3:03:14] ▶
So I'm going to need
[3:03:15 - 3:03:16] ▶
a little bit of help
[3:03:16 - 3:03:17] ▶
with the heavy lifting
[3:03:17 - 3:03:17] ▶
of relocating the family
[3:03:17 - 3:03:19] ▶
for a summer,
[3:03:19 - 3:03:20] ▶
for a year
[3:03:20 - 3:03:21] ▶
at a time
[3:03:21 - 3:03:23] ▶
when we can't afford
[3:03:23 - 3:03:24] ▶
a lot of tumult.
[3:03:24 - 3:03:26] ▶
And he looked at me
[3:03:28 - 3:03:29] ▶
and he said,
[3:03:29 - 3:03:29] ▶
okay,
[3:03:30 - 3:03:30] ▶
well,
[3:03:31 - 3:03:31] ▶
do you have any idea
[3:03:31 - 3:03:32] ▶
where you get the money?
[3:03:32 - 3:03:32] ▶
Isn't he worth
[3:03:32 - 3:03:35] ▶
$20 billion plus
[3:03:35 - 3:03:38] ▶
at that time?
[3:03:38 - 3:03:39] ▶
Yes.
[3:03:39 - 3:03:39] ▶
That's crazy.
[3:03:40 - 3:03:42] ▶
And I looked at him.
[3:03:42 - 3:03:44] ▶
I couldn't parse it.
[3:03:45 - 3:03:46] ▶
It just doesn't add up.
[3:03:50 - 3:03:52] ▶
It's so strange.
[3:03:52 - 3:03:54] ▶
Did you,
[3:03:54 - 3:03:54] ▶
I mean,
[3:03:55 - 3:03:56] ▶
you just didn't want
[3:03:56 - 3:03:57] ▶
to grovel at that point
[3:03:57 - 3:03:58] ▶
and you kind of-
[3:03:58 - 3:03:58] ▶
Well, I'm not going
[3:03:58 - 3:03:58] ▶
to grovel.
[3:03:58 - 3:03:59] ▶
Yeah.
[3:03:59 - 3:03:59] ▶
And that's so crazy.
[3:03:59 - 3:04:01] ▶
Did you get the vibe
[3:04:01 - 3:04:02] ▶
that he was genuinely
[3:04:02 - 3:04:03] ▶
hearing about this
[3:04:03 - 3:04:04] ▶
technical detail
[3:04:04 - 3:04:05] ▶
for the first time?
[3:04:05 - 3:04:06] ▶
This is the first
[3:04:07 - 3:04:08] ▶
of two meetings
[3:04:08 - 3:04:09] ▶
that sound like this.
[3:04:09 - 3:04:10] ▶
The first time
[3:04:10 - 3:04:10] ▶
I had a meeting with him,
[3:04:10 - 3:04:11] ▶
I spent three hours
[3:04:11 - 3:04:12] ▶
with him going over
[3:04:12 - 3:04:18] ▶
gauge theory
[3:04:18 - 3:04:19] ▶
of modern economics.
[3:04:19 - 3:04:20] ▶
Now,
[3:04:20 - 3:04:20] ▶
he happens to be married
[3:04:20 - 3:04:21] ▶
to an economist.
[3:04:21 - 3:04:22] ▶
He obviously works
[3:04:22 - 3:04:23] ▶
in the markets.
[3:04:23 - 3:04:24] ▶
And gauge theory,
[3:04:25 - 3:04:26] ▶
just so it's not thought
[3:04:26 - 3:04:28] ▶
to be intimidating
[3:04:28 - 3:04:29] ▶
or too cool for school,
[3:04:29 - 3:04:30] ▶
is really just
[3:04:31 - 3:04:32] ▶
differential calculus
[3:04:32 - 3:04:33] ▶
done correctly.
[3:04:33 - 3:04:33] ▶
And unfortunately,
[3:04:35 - 3:04:35] ▶
we call it gauge theory
[3:04:35 - 3:04:37] ▶
and we only teach people
[3:04:37 - 3:04:39] ▶
who are very high up
[3:04:39 - 3:04:40] ▶
in pure mathematics
[3:04:40 - 3:04:41] ▶
or theoretical physics.
[3:04:41 - 3:04:42] ▶
Nobody else learns
[3:04:42 - 3:04:43] ▶
gauge theory.
[3:04:43 - 3:04:43] ▶
We should teach gauge theory
[3:04:44 - 3:04:45] ▶
in high school.
[3:04:45 - 3:04:46] ▶
It's just,
[3:04:46 - 3:04:47] ▶
it's an indispensable way
[3:04:47 - 3:04:49] ▶
of looking at the world
[3:04:49 - 3:04:50] ▶
and it's just
[3:04:50 - 3:04:51] ▶
differential calculus
[3:04:51 - 3:04:52] ▶
done right.
[3:04:52 - 3:04:52] ▶
So,
[3:04:53 - 3:04:53] ▶
in economic theory,
[3:04:54 - 3:04:55] ▶
there was a thing
[3:04:56 - 3:04:57] ▶
called the marginal revolution,
[3:04:57 - 3:04:59] ▶
which Tyler Cowen
[3:04:59 - 3:05:00] ▶
borrowed for the name
[3:05:00 - 3:05:01] ▶
of his blog.
[3:05:01 - 3:05:02] ▶
And that was the penetration
[3:05:03 - 3:05:04] ▶
of the differential calculus
[3:05:04 - 3:05:05] ▶
into economics.
[3:05:05 - 3:05:07] ▶
So,
[3:05:08 - 3:05:09] ▶
what I did,
[3:05:09 - 3:05:10] ▶
together with Pia Malani,
[3:05:10 - 3:05:12] ▶
was to show
[3:05:12 - 3:05:14] ▶
that modern
[3:05:14 - 3:05:15] ▶
neoclassical economics
[3:05:15 - 3:05:17] ▶
is a self-evident
[3:05:17 - 3:05:20] ▶
gauge theory
[3:05:20 - 3:05:20] ▶
at multiple levels.
[3:05:20 - 3:05:21] ▶
And that was not taken well
[3:05:22 - 3:05:24] ▶
by the Harvard Economics Department,
[3:05:24 - 3:05:26] ▶
particularly by one man
[3:05:26 - 3:05:28] ▶
named Dale Jorgensen,
[3:05:28 - 3:05:29] ▶
who was the chairman
[3:05:29 - 3:05:30] ▶
of the department,
[3:05:30 - 3:05:30] ▶
and basically went nuts
[3:05:31 - 3:05:33] ▶
trying to make sure
[3:05:33 - 3:05:34] ▶
that my wife
[3:05:34 - 3:05:35] ▶
was unemployable.
[3:05:35 - 3:05:36] ▶
And the reason
[3:05:36 - 3:05:37] ▶
that he did that
[3:05:37 - 3:05:38] ▶
is that he was tasked
[3:05:38 - 3:05:40] ▶
by Senators
[3:05:40 - 3:05:41] ▶
Bob Packwood
[3:05:41 - 3:05:42] ▶
and Daniel Patrick Moynihan
[3:05:42 - 3:05:45] ▶
with pretending
[3:05:45 - 3:05:48] ▶
there was a 1.1%
[3:05:48 - 3:05:49] ▶
overstatement
[3:05:49 - 3:05:50] ▶
in the consumer price index
[3:05:50 - 3:05:54] ▶
to transfer a trillion dollars
[3:05:54 - 3:05:56] ▶
because all tax receipts
[3:05:56 - 3:05:58] ▶
and all social security payments
[3:05:58 - 3:05:59] ▶
are indexed.
[3:05:59 - 3:06:00] ▶
indexed.
[3:06:00 - 3:06:01] ▶
So,
[3:06:01 - 3:06:01] ▶
tax brackets
[3:06:02 - 3:06:03] ▶
and
[3:06:03 - 3:06:04] ▶
you can raise taxes
[3:06:04 - 3:06:06] ▶
and slash benefits
[3:06:06 - 3:06:08] ▶
both at the same time
[3:06:08 - 3:06:09] ▶
by making a technical adjustment
[3:06:09 - 3:06:11] ▶
in inflation.
[3:06:11 - 3:06:12] ▶
You'll notice that many of us
[3:06:12 - 3:06:13] ▶
are experiencing inflation
[3:06:13 - 3:06:14] ▶
that's not fully reflected
[3:06:14 - 3:06:15] ▶
in our statistics.
[3:06:15 - 3:06:16] ▶
So,
[3:06:17 - 3:06:17] ▶
there was a crime going on
[3:06:17 - 3:06:19] ▶
which the Boskin Commission
[3:06:19 - 3:06:20] ▶
was committing
[3:06:20 - 3:06:21] ▶
against the American people
[3:06:21 - 3:06:23] ▶
by putting in
[3:06:23 - 3:06:25] ▶
a 1.1% overstatement
[3:06:25 - 3:06:27] ▶
in the CPI by hand
[3:06:27 - 3:06:28] ▶
at the same moment
[3:06:28 - 3:06:29] ▶
that Melani and myself
[3:06:29 - 3:06:31] ▶
were showing
[3:06:31 - 3:06:32] ▶
the economics
[3:06:32 - 3:06:35] ▶
as a gauge theory
[3:06:35 - 3:06:36] ▶
and there's a completely
[3:06:36 - 3:06:36] ▶
different way
[3:06:36 - 3:06:37] ▶
of looking at this.
[3:06:37 - 3:06:38] ▶
And Jorgensen
[3:06:39 - 3:06:39] ▶
didn't want any competition.
[3:06:39 - 3:06:41] ▶
So,
[3:06:43 - 3:06:43] ▶
anyway,
[3:06:43 - 3:06:43] ▶
I talked to Jim.
[3:06:44 - 3:06:45] ▶
Jim said,
[3:06:45 - 3:06:46] ▶
look,
[3:06:46 - 3:06:46] ▶
this is amazing.
[3:06:46 - 3:06:48] ▶
I've never thought about this
[3:06:49 - 3:06:50] ▶
but you're right
[3:06:50 - 3:06:51] ▶
about bundle theory
[3:06:51 - 3:06:52] ▶
and derivatives
[3:06:52 - 3:06:53] ▶
and projection operators.
[3:06:53 - 3:06:55] ▶
I said,
[3:06:56 - 3:06:56] ▶
well,
[3:06:56 - 3:06:56] ▶
you have to
[3:06:56 - 3:06:57] ▶
ask a question.
[3:06:57 - 3:06:59] ▶
Your returns
[3:06:59 - 3:07:00] ▶
are so off the chart.
[3:07:00 - 3:07:01] ▶
You have to have
[3:07:02 - 3:07:03] ▶
some explanation
[3:07:03 - 3:07:04] ▶
for why you're able
[3:07:04 - 3:07:05] ▶
to do this much
[3:07:05 - 3:07:06] ▶
of a better job.
[3:07:06 - 3:07:07] ▶
And I said,
[3:07:09 - 3:07:11] ▶
are you using this?
[3:07:11 - 3:07:12] ▶
Your wife is an economist.
[3:07:12 - 3:07:13] ▶
You're a differential geometer.
[3:07:13 - 3:07:14] ▶
You're in the same situation I am.
[3:07:14 - 3:07:16] ▶
Did you get here first?
[3:07:17 - 3:07:18] ▶
And he took a drag
[3:07:19 - 3:07:20] ▶
on his cigarette.
[3:07:20 - 3:07:20] ▶
And
[3:07:21 - 3:07:22] ▶
it was a very long pause
[3:07:23 - 3:07:24] ▶
and he said,
[3:07:24 - 3:07:24] ▶
Eric,
[3:07:24 - 3:07:25] ▶
if you knew how
[3:07:25 - 3:07:25] ▶
he actually made money,
[3:07:25 - 3:07:27] ▶
you'd be so disappointed.
[3:07:27 - 3:07:28] ▶
What do you think
[3:07:32 - 3:07:32] ▶
he meant by that?
[3:07:32 - 3:07:33] ▶
You can imagine.
[3:07:35 - 3:07:36] ▶
I have no idea,
[3:07:36 - 3:07:37] ▶
but there's certainly,
[3:07:38 - 3:07:38] ▶
look,
[3:07:39 - 3:07:39] ▶
so far as I know,
[3:07:40 - 3:07:41] ▶
I'm the first person,
[3:07:41 - 3:07:42] ▶
because I come from
[3:07:42 - 3:07:44] ▶
a math physics background
[3:07:44 - 3:07:45] ▶
to say,
[3:07:45 - 3:07:45] ▶
I'm not really positive
[3:07:46 - 3:07:47] ▶
that this thing
[3:07:47 - 3:07:47] ▶
is just a hedge fund.
[3:07:47 - 3:07:48] ▶
The returns
[3:07:49 - 3:07:50] ▶
are too impressive.
[3:07:50 - 3:07:51] ▶
You know,
[3:07:52 - 3:07:52] ▶
they're like North Korean returns.
[3:07:52 - 3:07:54] ▶
And then the dear leader,
[3:07:54 - 3:07:55] ▶
you know,
[3:07:55 - 3:07:56] ▶
ascended to the mountaintop
[3:07:56 - 3:07:57] ▶
and wrote
[3:07:57 - 3:07:57] ▶
the seven most beautiful symphonies
[3:07:57 - 3:07:59] ▶
before descending
[3:07:59 - 3:08:00] ▶
on a winged unicorn.
[3:08:00 - 3:08:01] ▶
It's like,
[3:08:01 - 3:08:02] ▶
in the early 2000s,
[3:08:02 - 3:08:04] ▶
I didn't believe
[3:08:04 - 3:08:05] ▶
the following four funds.
[3:08:05 - 3:08:07] ▶
Bernie Madoff,
[3:08:07 - 3:08:08] ▶
Renaissance Technologies,
[3:08:08 - 3:08:11] ▶
D.E. Shaw,
[3:08:12 - 3:08:13] ▶
and Jeff Epstein.
[3:08:13 - 3:08:14] ▶
Why D.E. Shaw?
[3:08:15 - 3:08:16] ▶
It was a strange thing
[3:08:17 - 3:08:18] ▶
that I knew people
[3:08:18 - 3:08:19] ▶
who worked there.
[3:08:19 - 3:08:19] ▶
They were so highly
[3:08:20 - 3:08:20] ▶
compartmentalized
[3:08:20 - 3:08:21] ▶
that they basically
[3:08:21 - 3:08:23] ▶
had the sense of
[3:08:23 - 3:08:24] ▶
they had no idea
[3:08:24 - 3:08:25] ▶
how the whole thing worked.
[3:08:25 - 3:08:27] ▶
And so it had,
[3:08:28 - 3:08:28] ▶
as you know,
[3:08:29 - 3:08:30] ▶
there is a very strange
[3:08:30 - 3:08:32] ▶
property of government
[3:08:32 - 3:08:33] ▶
secrecy,
[3:08:33 - 3:08:34] ▶
which is the only thing
[3:08:34 - 3:08:35] ▶
people really trust
[3:08:35 - 3:08:37] ▶
is compartmentalization.
[3:08:37 - 3:08:38] ▶
and stove piping.
[3:08:38 - 3:08:39] ▶
The general belief is
[3:08:40 - 3:08:42] ▶
that people will always talk
[3:08:42 - 3:08:44] ▶
and you have to have
[3:08:44 - 3:08:44] ▶
the people sharded
[3:08:44 - 3:08:45] ▶
with enough granularity
[3:08:45 - 3:08:47] ▶
that nobody can put together
[3:08:47 - 3:08:49] ▶
what's actually going on.
[3:08:49 - 3:08:50] ▶
Do you think,
[3:08:50 - 3:08:51] ▶
because,
[3:08:51 - 3:08:51] ▶
I mean,
[3:08:52 - 3:08:52] ▶
Brookhaven National Labs
[3:08:53 - 3:08:54] ▶
is the site of Cosmetron,
[3:08:54 - 3:08:55] ▶
which is the largest
[3:08:55 - 3:08:56] ▶
particle accelerator
[3:08:56 - 3:08:57] ▶
in the U.S.
[3:08:57 - 3:08:59] ▶
It is.
[3:08:59 - 3:09:00] ▶
Do you know that?
[3:09:00 - 3:09:01] ▶
No, I didn't.
[3:09:01 - 3:09:01] ▶
I thought Fermilab
[3:09:01 - 3:09:02] ▶
would have been.
[3:09:02 - 3:09:03] ▶
No, it's interesting.
[3:09:03 - 3:09:04] ▶
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[3:09:04 - 3:09:04] ▶
So they're doing,
[3:09:04 - 3:09:06] ▶
you know,
[3:09:06 - 3:09:07] ▶
they have a particle accelerator
[3:09:07 - 3:09:09] ▶
that's, you know,
[3:09:09 - 3:09:09] ▶
pretty powerful up there.
[3:09:09 - 3:09:10] ▶
They have Stony Brook,
[3:09:11 - 3:09:12] ▶
which, you know,
[3:09:12 - 3:09:13] ▶
is definitely punching
[3:09:13 - 3:09:14] ▶
above its weight class
[3:09:14 - 3:09:15] ▶
when it comes to physics,
[3:09:15 - 3:09:16] ▶
which has some interesting also.
[3:09:17 - 3:09:18] ▶
Particularly mathematics.
[3:09:19 - 3:09:19] ▶
Particularly mathematics.
[3:09:20 - 3:09:21] ▶
Also some interesting
[3:09:22 - 3:09:23] ▶
architecture up there
[3:09:23 - 3:09:24] ▶
as well
[3:09:24 - 3:09:24] ▶
that you've noted.
[3:09:24 - 3:09:26] ▶
And then you have this fund,
[3:09:27 - 3:09:28] ▶
which seems to get
[3:09:28 - 3:09:29] ▶
30% year over year
[3:09:29 - 3:09:30] ▶
no matter what,
[3:09:30 - 3:09:31] ▶
you know,
[3:09:31 - 3:09:31] ▶
up years,
[3:09:31 - 3:09:32] ▶
down years,
[3:09:32 - 3:09:32] ▶
you know,
[3:09:33 - 3:09:33] ▶
it's just always sort of,
[3:09:33 - 3:09:34] ▶
you know,
[3:09:34 - 3:09:34] ▶
performing at the same clip.
[3:09:34 - 3:09:36] ▶
And I guess my question would be,
[3:09:37 - 3:09:40] ▶
do you think this was sort of
[3:09:40 - 3:09:42] ▶
a slush fund
[3:09:42 - 3:09:43] ▶
for secret science?
[3:09:43 - 3:09:44] ▶
I think it's not irresponsible.
[3:09:46 - 3:09:48] ▶
Look,
[3:09:48 - 3:09:48] ▶
you know my thing
[3:09:49 - 3:09:50] ▶
about responsible
[3:09:50 - 3:09:51] ▶
conspiracy theorizing,
[3:09:51 - 3:09:52] ▶
which is that you go back
[3:09:53 - 3:09:54] ▶
in the history
[3:09:54 - 3:09:54] ▶
of actual conspiracies
[3:09:54 - 3:09:56] ▶
and you say,
[3:09:56 - 3:09:56] ▶
your new thought
[3:09:57 - 3:09:58] ▶
about a conspiracy
[3:09:58 - 3:09:59] ▶
should be within
[3:09:59 - 3:10:01] ▶
a standard deviation
[3:10:01 - 3:10:03] ▶
or two
[3:10:03 - 3:10:03] ▶
of something
[3:10:03 - 3:10:04] ▶
that's known to exist.
[3:10:04 - 3:10:05] ▶
So if you take
[3:10:06 - 3:10:08] ▶
Los Alamos
[3:10:08 - 3:10:08] ▶
as a good example,
[3:10:08 - 3:10:09] ▶
you have
[3:10:10 - 3:10:12] ▶
a
[3:10:12 - 3:10:14] ▶
protected campus
[3:10:14 - 3:10:17] ▶
and compound.
[3:10:17 - 3:10:18] ▶
You have
[3:10:19 - 3:10:20] ▶
top math physics talent.
[3:10:20 - 3:10:22] ▶
You have
[3:10:22 - 3:10:23] ▶
duplicitous filings.
[3:10:23 - 3:10:26] ▶
For example,
[3:10:26 - 3:10:27] ▶
they didn't want people
[3:10:27 - 3:10:28] ▶
to know that plutonium
[3:10:28 - 3:10:29] ▶
and uranium
[3:10:29 - 3:10:29] ▶
were the two main
[3:10:29 - 3:10:30] ▶
radioactive elements
[3:10:30 - 3:10:32] ▶
that they were focused on.
[3:10:32 - 3:10:33] ▶
So that I believe
[3:10:34 - 3:10:34] ▶
Harold Urey
[3:10:34 - 3:10:35] ▶
may have been sent
[3:10:35 - 3:10:36] ▶
to promote others.
[3:10:36 - 3:10:38] ▶
They didn't want people
[3:10:38 - 3:10:38] ▶
realizing that it was
[3:10:38 - 3:10:39] ▶
as easy
[3:10:39 - 3:10:40] ▶
as it turned out to be.
[3:10:40 - 3:10:42] ▶
So there was a lot
[3:10:42 - 3:10:43] ▶
of disinformation
[3:10:43 - 3:10:44] ▶
scientifically
[3:10:44 - 3:10:45] ▶
because you had
[3:10:45 - 3:10:47] ▶
to explain
[3:10:47 - 3:10:48] ▶
why you have
[3:10:48 - 3:10:49] ▶
all of this focus
[3:10:49 - 3:10:50] ▶
on chain reactions
[3:10:50 - 3:10:51] ▶
and then suddenly
[3:10:51 - 3:10:52] ▶
interest just stops.
[3:10:52 - 3:10:53] ▶
Okay.
[3:10:55 - 3:10:55] ▶
So my claim is
[3:10:56 - 3:10:57] ▶
that if you believe
[3:10:57 - 3:10:59] ▶
that Los Alamos exists
[3:10:59 - 3:11:01] ▶
and if you believe
[3:11:01 - 3:11:02] ▶
that the Rad Lab exists,
[3:11:02 - 3:11:04] ▶
the Radiation Laboratory
[3:11:04 - 3:11:05] ▶
at MIT,
[3:11:05 - 3:11:06] ▶
and you believe
[3:11:06 - 3:11:06] ▶
a bunch of these things,
[3:11:06 - 3:11:08] ▶
it is not hard.
[3:11:08 - 3:11:10] ▶
Oh, and you believe
[3:11:11 - 3:11:12] ▶
like dummy companies
[3:11:12 - 3:11:13] ▶
and shell companies
[3:11:13 - 3:11:14] ▶
like Southern Air Transport
[3:11:14 - 3:11:16] ▶
or Air America,
[3:11:16 - 3:11:17] ▶
you know?
[3:11:18 - 3:11:18] ▶
that's not the problem.
[3:11:18 - 3:11:24] ▶
The secret squirrels
[3:11:24 - 3:11:26] ▶
in Washington, D.C.
[3:11:26 - 3:11:27] ▶
don't want smart Americans
[3:11:27 - 3:11:29] ▶
turning this
[3:11:29 - 3:11:30] ▶
into a parlor game.
[3:11:30 - 3:11:31] ▶
So they've decided
[3:11:32 - 3:11:33] ▶
that, okay,
[3:11:33 - 3:11:34] ▶
we're going to spread
[3:11:34 - 3:11:34] ▶
one idea,
[3:11:34 - 3:11:35] ▶
which is that
[3:11:35 - 3:11:36] ▶
everybody who speculates
[3:11:36 - 3:11:37] ▶
about the secret world
[3:11:37 - 3:11:38] ▶
is a loser.
[3:11:38 - 3:11:39] ▶
There's only one reason
[3:11:40 - 3:11:41] ▶
to speculate
[3:11:41 - 3:11:41] ▶
about the secret world,
[3:11:41 - 3:11:42] ▶
is that you're
[3:11:43 - 3:11:43] ▶
fucking stupid.
[3:11:43 - 3:11:44] ▶
Right?
[3:11:44 - 3:11:45] ▶
And I really despise this.
[3:11:47 - 3:11:48] ▶
So what I said
[3:11:49 - 3:11:50] ▶
was entirely responsible.
[3:11:50 - 3:11:51] ▶
If you were trying
[3:11:52 - 3:11:53] ▶
to call
[3:11:53 - 3:11:54] ▶
the National Security Agency
[3:11:54 - 3:11:56] ▶
no such agency
[3:11:56 - 3:11:57] ▶
back in the day,
[3:11:57 - 3:11:58] ▶
that would be bad
[3:11:58 - 3:12:00] ▶
because I would say,
[3:12:00 - 3:12:01] ▶
tell me where number theorists
[3:12:01 - 3:12:03] ▶
go who don't get
[3:12:03 - 3:12:04] ▶
academic jobs
[3:12:04 - 3:12:05] ▶
and let's map
[3:12:05 - 3:12:06] ▶
the zip codes.
[3:12:06 - 3:12:08] ▶
oh, look,
[3:12:08 - 3:12:08] ▶
there's this little cluster.
[3:12:08 - 3:12:09] ▶
I mean,
[3:12:11 - 3:12:11] ▶
I don't know,
[3:12:11 - 3:12:11] ▶
Maryland or Delaware
[3:12:11 - 3:12:12] ▶
or wherever it is,
[3:12:12 - 3:12:13] ▶
you know,
[3:12:13 - 3:12:14] ▶
and you'd find Fort Meade.
[3:12:14 - 3:12:15] ▶
Okay,
[3:12:16 - 3:12:16] ▶
well,
[3:12:16 - 3:12:16] ▶
there's a cluster
[3:12:16 - 3:12:17] ▶
in Renaissance Technologies.
[3:12:17 - 3:12:19] ▶
Yes.
[3:12:20 - 3:12:21] ▶
You know,
[3:12:21 - 3:12:21] ▶
so are you actually,
[3:12:21 - 3:12:23] ▶
I'm not telling you
[3:12:23 - 3:12:24] ▶
what's in it or not.
[3:12:24 - 3:12:25] ▶
I'm telling you,
[3:12:25 - 3:12:26] ▶
if somebody told me
[3:12:26 - 3:12:28] ▶
tomorrow,
[3:12:28 - 3:12:29] ▶
there is a Manhattan 3.0
[3:12:29 - 3:12:32] ▶
and it's about gravity
[3:12:32 - 3:12:34] ▶
and UAPs
[3:12:34 - 3:12:35] ▶
and post-Einsteinian
[3:12:35 - 3:12:36] ▶
engineering,
[3:12:36 - 3:12:37] ▶
where is its brain trust?
[3:12:37 - 3:12:39] ▶
With 95% confidence,
[3:12:40 - 3:12:42] ▶
I would tell you
[3:12:42 - 3:12:43] ▶
it's Renaissance Technologies.
[3:12:43 - 3:12:45] ▶
On the other hand,
[3:12:47 - 3:12:48] ▶
if you asked,
[3:12:49 - 3:12:49] ▶
is there such a program?
[3:12:50 - 3:12:51] ▶
I don't know that,
[3:12:52 - 3:12:53] ▶
I don't know that my confidence
[3:12:53 - 3:12:54] ▶
would be so high.
[3:12:54 - 3:12:55] ▶
If there is a secret program,
[3:12:55 - 3:12:56] ▶
I'm pretty sure
[3:12:57 - 3:12:57] ▶
it's Renaissance Technologies.
[3:12:57 - 3:12:58] ▶
Some percentage times 95%
[3:12:58 - 3:13:00] ▶
or something.
[3:13:01 - 3:13:02] ▶
Well, that's the thing.
[3:13:02 - 3:13:02] ▶
It might be,
[3:13:03 - 3:13:04] ▶
it might well not be,
[3:13:04 - 3:13:06] ▶
but, you know,
[3:13:06 - 3:13:06] ▶
if you asked me,
[3:13:06 - 3:13:07] ▶
hey, tell me,
[3:13:08 - 3:13:10] ▶
what are Feynman,
[3:13:10 - 3:13:12] ▶
Beta,
[3:13:12 - 3:13:12] ▶
John von Neumann
[3:13:13 - 3:13:15] ▶
doing at a boarding school,
[3:13:15 - 3:13:17] ▶
at a boys' school
[3:13:17 - 3:13:18] ▶
in the New Mexico wilderness?
[3:13:18 - 3:13:21] ▶
I'd say,
[3:13:22 - 3:13:23] ▶
that's a really strange place
[3:13:23 - 3:13:24] ▶
to find those guys.
[3:13:24 - 3:13:25] ▶
Yeah.
[3:13:26 - 3:13:26] ▶
It's an odd concentration
[3:13:26 - 3:13:28] ▶
of the country's top physicists.
[3:13:28 - 3:13:30] ▶
Oh, well,
[3:13:30 - 3:13:31] ▶
they're investing
[3:13:31 - 3:13:32] ▶
in secondary education
[3:13:32 - 3:13:33] ▶
for young men
[3:13:33 - 3:13:34] ▶
because they have
[3:13:34 - 3:13:35] ▶
self-image issues.
[3:13:35 - 3:13:36] ▶
Oh, okay.
[3:13:36 - 3:13:37] ▶
Exactly.
[3:13:39 - 3:13:39] ▶
Well, you also,
[3:13:40 - 3:13:41] ▶
you know,
[3:13:42 - 3:13:42] ▶
you've noted that,
[3:13:42 - 3:13:43] ▶
or this isn't even
[3:13:44 - 3:13:45] ▶
something you've noted.
[3:13:45 - 3:13:46] ▶
This is something,
[3:13:46 - 3:13:46] ▶
you know,
[3:13:47 - 3:13:47] ▶
in the age of disclosure
[3:13:47 - 3:13:48] ▶
or,
[3:13:48 - 3:13:48] ▶
and by the way,
[3:13:49 - 3:13:49] ▶
this movie came out
[3:13:49 - 3:13:50] ▶
and you have D&I level people.
[3:13:50 - 3:13:52] ▶
You have James Clapper,
[3:13:53 - 3:13:53] ▶
you have Brennan.
[3:13:54 - 3:13:54] ▶
Wait, wait, wait, wait,
[3:13:55 - 3:13:55] ▶
one second.
[3:13:55 - 3:13:55] ▶
I just want to say this thing.
[3:13:56 - 3:13:56] ▶
Yeah.
[3:13:57 - 3:13:57] ▶
I don't want to speculate
[3:13:57 - 3:13:58] ▶
against Renaissance technologies
[3:13:58 - 3:14:01] ▶
if they're just really good
[3:14:01 - 3:14:02] ▶
traders.
[3:14:02 - 3:14:04] ▶
In other words,
[3:14:04 - 3:14:04] ▶
I'm not trying to bring
[3:14:04 - 3:14:06] ▶
darkness to their door,
[3:14:06 - 3:14:08] ▶
but if we're going to play
[3:14:08 - 3:14:09] ▶
this cat and mouse game
[3:14:09 - 3:14:11] ▶
about what's true
[3:14:11 - 3:14:12] ▶
and what's real,
[3:14:12 - 3:14:13] ▶
and I'll just get very,
[3:14:13 - 3:14:14] ▶
very pointed about it.
[3:14:14 - 3:14:17] ▶
Do not mess with your expert class.
[3:14:19 - 3:14:21] ▶
Right?
[3:14:23 - 3:14:24] ▶
The current strategy
[3:14:24 - 3:14:26] ▶
of dealing with the expert class
[3:14:26 - 3:14:27] ▶
who's not read in
[3:14:27 - 3:14:28] ▶
to whatever this is,
[3:14:28 - 3:14:30] ▶
is to just pretend
[3:14:31 - 3:14:32] ▶
that we're all
[3:14:32 - 3:14:33] ▶
incapable thinkers.
[3:14:33 - 3:14:34] ▶
That we've got some personal problem
[3:14:34 - 3:14:38] ▶
that we're working at.
[3:14:38 - 3:14:39] ▶
I want to terminate
[3:14:41 - 3:14:42] ▶
that program
[3:14:42 - 3:14:44] ▶
with extreme prejudice.
[3:14:44 - 3:14:45] ▶
You do not go after
[3:14:45 - 3:14:46] ▶
your expert class
[3:14:46 - 3:14:47] ▶
because you were dumb enough
[3:14:47 - 3:14:48] ▶
not to read them in,
[3:14:48 - 3:14:50] ▶
and then they figured out
[3:14:51 - 3:14:52] ▶
something of what you were doing.
[3:14:52 - 3:14:53] ▶
Yeah, I don't know.
[3:14:54 - 3:14:55] ▶
I don't know the specifics,
[3:14:55 - 3:14:56] ▶
but I'm not,
[3:14:57 - 3:14:57] ▶
I'm not stupid.
[3:14:57 - 3:14:58] ▶
Well, the other issue
[3:14:58 - 3:14:59] ▶
with the way things have gone,
[3:14:59 - 3:15:01] ▶
if we take Eric Davis
[3:15:02 - 3:15:03] ▶
at face value
[3:15:03 - 3:15:04] ▶
on there being no physicists
[3:15:04 - 3:15:05] ▶
in this vital secret core program.
[3:15:05 - 3:15:08] ▶
How did you react to that, Jesse?
[3:15:08 - 3:15:09] ▶
Let me turn it around.
[3:15:09 - 3:15:10] ▶
I, it's crazy.
[3:15:11 - 3:15:12] ▶
I mean, it's, it's,
[3:15:13 - 3:15:13] ▶
it's outrageous.
[3:15:14 - 3:15:15] ▶
It's, uh,
[3:15:15 - 3:15:16] ▶
if that is the case,
[3:15:17 - 3:15:19] ▶
it's, uh,
[3:15:19 - 3:15:20] ▶
it's extremely irresponsible
[3:15:20 - 3:15:22] ▶
and it's not being run well at all.
[3:15:22 - 3:15:24] ▶
It makes no sense.
[3:15:24 - 3:15:25] ▶
Why would you be operating
[3:15:25 - 3:15:27] ▶
within a boundary
[3:15:27 - 3:15:29] ▶
that has been set?
[3:15:29 - 3:15:31] ▶
Historically,
[3:15:31 - 3:15:32] ▶
you have, you know,
[3:15:32 - 3:15:33] ▶
every century
[3:15:34 - 3:15:35] ▶
or two centuries,
[3:15:35 - 3:15:36] ▶
you have an overturning
[3:15:36 - 3:15:37] ▶
of our physical model
[3:15:37 - 3:15:38] ▶
of reality.
[3:15:38 - 3:15:39] ▶
And if you're telling me
[3:15:40 - 3:15:41] ▶
that you were getting
[3:15:41 - 3:15:41] ▶
slag,
[3:15:41 - 3:15:43] ▶
discs,
[3:15:43 - 3:15:44] ▶
you know,
[3:15:45 - 3:15:45] ▶
whatever it is,
[3:15:45 - 3:15:46] ▶
material that you were saying,
[3:15:46 - 3:15:47] ▶
you know,
[3:15:47 - 3:15:48] ▶
with a hundred percent confidence
[3:15:48 - 3:15:49] ▶
is not ours
[3:15:49 - 3:15:50] ▶
because it's been atomically bonded
[3:15:50 - 3:15:52] ▶
or has isotope ratios
[3:15:52 - 3:15:53] ▶
with heavy elements
[3:15:53 - 3:15:54] ▶
or any of the stuff
[3:15:54 - 3:15:55] ▶
that we're hearing
[3:15:55 - 3:15:56] ▶
before Congress,
[3:15:56 - 3:15:57] ▶
a lot of these guys saying.
[3:15:57 - 3:15:58] ▶
And then you were saying,
[3:15:58 - 3:16:00] ▶
but we're operating
[3:16:00 - 3:16:02] ▶
within the bounds
[3:16:02 - 3:16:03] ▶
of the constraints
[3:16:03 - 3:16:04] ▶
that we've set on ourselves
[3:16:04 - 3:16:06] ▶
in this century.
[3:16:06 - 3:16:08] ▶
No me co de senso.
[3:16:08 - 3:16:09] ▶
It makes no sense.
[3:16:09 - 3:16:10] ▶
It's absurd.
[3:16:10 - 3:16:11] ▶
I'm following my contract.
[3:16:11 - 3:16:12] ▶
It's like,
[3:16:12 - 3:16:13] ▶
that's just nonsense.
[3:16:13 - 3:16:13] ▶
No, no, no.
[3:16:14 - 3:16:14] ▶
And everybody repeats this
[3:16:14 - 3:16:16] ▶
as if,
[3:16:16 - 3:16:17] ▶
as if they're,
[3:16:17 - 3:16:19] ▶
I mean,
[3:16:20 - 3:16:21] ▶
it's like,
[3:16:21 - 3:16:21] ▶
if you gave the excuse,
[3:16:21 - 3:16:22] ▶
well, no,
[3:16:22 - 3:16:23] ▶
because it's Wednesday
[3:16:23 - 3:16:24] ▶
every week
[3:16:24 - 3:16:25] ▶
and everybody said that,
[3:16:25 - 3:16:27] ▶
you sort of get a nerd to it,
[3:16:27 - 3:16:28] ▶
but then you realize,
[3:16:28 - 3:16:29] ▶
yes,
[3:16:29 - 3:16:29] ▶
there's a Wednesday
[3:16:29 - 3:16:30] ▶
of every week.
[3:16:30 - 3:16:30] ▶
That had nothing to do
[3:16:30 - 3:16:31] ▶
with anything.
[3:16:31 - 3:16:32] ▶
You have to be highly disagreeable
[3:16:32 - 3:16:33] ▶
to basically say,
[3:16:33 - 3:16:35] ▶
you know,
[3:16:35 - 3:16:35] ▶
Eric,
[3:16:35 - 3:16:36] ▶
what you just said,
[3:16:36 - 3:16:37] ▶
no,
[3:16:37 - 3:16:37] ▶
no,
[3:16:37 - 3:16:37] ▶
no offense,
[3:16:37 - 3:16:38] ▶
makes no sense at all.
[3:16:38 - 3:16:39] ▶
And what's so weird
[3:16:40 - 3:16:41] ▶
about it is
[3:16:41 - 3:16:41] ▶
I am cynical.
[3:16:41 - 3:16:43] ▶
I think,
[3:16:43 - 3:16:43] ▶
I think national security
[3:16:43 - 3:16:44] ▶
runs the day
[3:16:44 - 3:16:45] ▶
on all this stuff.
[3:16:45 - 3:16:46] ▶
And so once something
[3:16:46 - 3:16:47] ▶
makes sense
[3:16:47 - 3:16:48] ▶
from a national security
[3:16:48 - 3:16:48] ▶
standpoint,
[3:16:48 - 3:16:49] ▶
it just happens.
[3:16:49 - 3:16:50] ▶
And so if this
[3:16:51 - 3:16:53] ▶
were this grave
[3:16:53 - 3:16:55] ▶
national security issue
[3:16:55 - 3:16:56] ▶
where you think
[3:16:56 - 3:16:57] ▶
you might be able
[3:16:57 - 3:16:58] ▶
to do anything
[3:16:58 - 3:16:59] ▶
with any of this material,
[3:16:59 - 3:17:00] ▶
obviously,
[3:17:01 - 3:17:02] ▶
you'd put your best
[3:17:02 - 3:17:03] ▶
and brightest on it.
[3:17:03 - 3:17:04] ▶
Obviously,
[3:17:04 - 3:17:04] ▶
the stove piping of it
[3:17:05 - 3:17:06] ▶
would be an immediate,
[3:17:06 - 3:17:07] ▶
urgent issue
[3:17:08 - 3:17:09] ▶
that you would figure out.
[3:17:09 - 3:17:10] ▶
Or you'd put the best
[3:17:10 - 3:17:11] ▶
and the brightest
[3:17:11 - 3:17:12] ▶
on top of the stove pipes.
[3:17:12 - 3:17:13] ▶
system,
[3:17:13 - 3:17:14] ▶
which is what we did
[3:17:14 - 3:17:14] ▶
at Los Alamos.
[3:17:14 - 3:17:15] ▶
The white badges.
[3:17:15 - 3:17:16] ▶
Look,
[3:17:18 - 3:17:18] ▶
man,
[3:17:18 - 3:17:19] ▶
we have cowboys still.
[3:17:19 - 3:17:21] ▶
It's not tracing physics.
[3:17:22 - 3:17:23] ▶
Yeah.
[3:17:24 - 3:17:25] ▶
You're castrating
[3:17:26 - 3:17:27] ▶
the people
[3:17:27 - 3:17:28] ▶
who can do this work.
[3:17:28 - 3:17:29] ▶
Well,
[3:17:31 - 3:17:31] ▶
that's the other,
[3:17:31 - 3:17:32] ▶
you know,
[3:17:32 - 3:17:32] ▶
thing,
[3:17:32 - 3:17:33] ▶
which I think
[3:17:33 - 3:17:33] ▶
is even worse
[3:17:33 - 3:17:35] ▶
than the program
[3:17:35 - 3:17:36] ▶
being dysfunctional,
[3:17:36 - 3:17:37] ▶
is you have this narrative
[3:17:37 - 3:17:40] ▶
of,
[3:17:40 - 3:17:41] ▶
in UFO world,
[3:17:41 - 3:17:42] ▶
of,
[3:17:42 - 3:17:43] ▶
you know,
[3:17:43 - 3:17:43] ▶
restricted data
[3:17:43 - 3:17:44] ▶
and all of this stuff
[3:17:44 - 3:17:46] ▶
getting relegated
[3:17:46 - 3:17:47] ▶
to,
[3:17:47 - 3:17:47] ▶
you know,
[3:17:47 - 3:17:47] ▶
your Lockheeds
[3:17:48 - 3:17:48] ▶
and Northropes
[3:17:48 - 3:17:49] ▶
and aerospace contractors
[3:17:49 - 3:17:50] ▶
because if they retrieve
[3:17:50 - 3:17:52] ▶
a thing,
[3:17:52 - 3:17:52] ▶
it's born secret
[3:17:53 - 3:17:54] ▶
under the Atomic Energy Act
[3:17:54 - 3:17:56] ▶
of 1954
[3:17:56 - 3:17:57] ▶
and this is,
[3:17:57 - 3:17:58] ▶
you know,
[3:17:58 - 3:17:58] ▶
it's sort of DOE jurisdiction,
[3:17:58 - 3:18:00] ▶
right?
[3:18:00 - 3:18:00] ▶
Then you end up with,
[3:18:02 - 3:18:03] ▶
you know,
[3:18:03 - 3:18:04] ▶
1980s,
[3:18:05 - 3:18:05] ▶
1990s world
[3:18:05 - 3:18:06] ▶
where,
[3:18:06 - 3:18:07] ▶
you know,
[3:18:08 - 3:18:09] ▶
not only is that,
[3:18:09 - 3:18:10] ▶
you know,
[3:18:10 - 3:18:11] ▶
whatever program
[3:18:11 - 3:18:11] ▶
is going on there
[3:18:11 - 3:18:12] ▶
seems to be sort of
[3:18:12 - 3:18:14] ▶
inert
[3:18:14 - 3:18:15] ▶
and neutered
[3:18:15 - 3:18:16] ▶
and not particularly
[3:18:16 - 3:18:18] ▶
impressive
[3:18:18 - 3:18:18] ▶
a la,
[3:18:18 - 3:18:19] ▶
all the stuff
[3:18:19 - 3:18:19] ▶
we're talking about
[3:18:19 - 3:18:20] ▶
right now,
[3:18:20 - 3:18:21] ▶
but you end up
[3:18:21 - 3:18:22] ▶
in a world
[3:18:22 - 3:18:23] ▶
where DOE security
[3:18:23 - 3:18:26] ▶
is so lax
[3:18:26 - 3:18:27] ▶
that Epstein
[3:18:27 - 3:18:29] ▶
can move
[3:18:29 - 3:18:30] ▶
to,
[3:18:30 - 3:18:31] ▶
you know,
[3:18:31 - 3:18:32] ▶
Zorro Ranch
[3:18:32 - 3:18:32] ▶
with the explicit
[3:18:32 - 3:18:34] ▶
intent of being
[3:18:34 - 3:18:35] ▶
near retired
[3:18:35 - 3:18:36] ▶
Los Alamos
[3:18:36 - 3:18:36] ▶
physicists
[3:18:36 - 3:18:37] ▶
so he can gain
[3:18:37 - 3:18:39] ▶
knowledge.
[3:18:39 - 3:18:39] ▶
You saw that clip
[3:18:39 - 3:18:40] ▶
I broke out.
[3:18:40 - 3:18:41] ▶
It's insane.
[3:18:41 - 3:18:41] ▶
I broke it out
[3:18:41 - 3:18:42] ▶
for a reason.
[3:18:42 - 3:18:43] ▶
Nobody around me,
[3:18:43 - 3:18:44] ▶
they're going right
[3:18:45 - 3:18:46] ▶
through that clip.
[3:18:46 - 3:18:47] ▶
So why did I buy
[3:18:47 - 3:18:48] ▶
a ranch in New Mexico
[3:18:48 - 3:18:49] ▶
in 1993?
[3:18:49 - 3:18:50] ▶
So that gives you
[3:18:50 - 3:18:51] ▶
some sense.
[3:18:51 - 3:18:52] ▶
So I would have
[3:18:52 - 3:18:52] ▶
funded it in 1990.
[3:18:52 - 3:18:53] ▶
Los Alamos,
[3:18:56 - 3:18:57] ▶
which was the
[3:18:58 - 3:18:58] ▶
high energy lab
[3:18:58 - 3:18:59] ▶
up in New Mexico,
[3:18:59 - 3:19:01] ▶
was losing
[3:19:01 - 3:19:02] ▶
all its scientists.
[3:19:02 - 3:19:03] ▶
And Los Alamos,
[3:19:04 - 3:19:04] ▶
it was where
[3:19:05 - 3:19:05] ▶
Oppenheimer
[3:19:05 - 3:19:06] ▶
and where a lot
[3:19:06 - 3:19:07] ▶
of the nuclear weapons
[3:19:07 - 3:19:09] ▶
were in the bomb.
[3:19:09 - 3:19:10] ▶
That's where
[3:19:10 - 3:19:10] ▶
the Manhattan Project.
[3:19:10 - 3:19:11] ▶
Manhattan Project
[3:19:11 - 3:19:12] ▶
was at Los Alamos
[3:19:12 - 3:19:14] ▶
and you bought
[3:19:14 - 3:19:14] ▶
your property
[3:19:14 - 3:19:15] ▶
out in New Mexico
[3:19:15 - 3:19:15] ▶
to be near that?
[3:19:15 - 3:19:16] ▶
Yes,
[3:19:16 - 3:19:16] ▶
because the scientists
[3:19:16 - 3:19:17] ▶
were going to be,
[3:19:17 - 3:19:18] ▶
they cut the funding
[3:19:18 - 3:19:19] ▶
for high energy physics.
[3:19:19 - 3:19:21] ▶
Look,
[3:19:21 - 3:19:22] ▶
I'm just going to
[3:19:22 - 3:19:22] ▶
be more forthcoming.
[3:19:22 - 3:19:24] ▶
I have had
[3:19:24 - 3:19:25] ▶
a thankless job
[3:19:25 - 3:19:26] ▶
of saying
[3:19:26 - 3:19:27] ▶
the strength theorists
[3:19:27 - 3:19:28] ▶
are horrible,
[3:19:28 - 3:19:28] ▶
get them more money.
[3:19:29 - 3:19:30] ▶
People wonder,
[3:19:32 - 3:19:33] ▶
like,
[3:19:33 - 3:19:33] ▶
it doesn't make any sense.
[3:19:33 - 3:19:34] ▶
And now I'm going
[3:19:34 - 3:19:35] ▶
to spell it out
[3:19:35 - 3:19:36] ▶
because Epstein
[3:19:36 - 3:19:37] ▶
said the thing
[3:19:37 - 3:19:37] ▶
that I was trying to,
[3:19:37 - 3:19:38] ▶
I was trying to be
[3:19:39 - 3:19:40] ▶
Straussian about it
[3:19:40 - 3:19:41] ▶
and sort of speak
[3:19:41 - 3:19:42] ▶
so that it's not evident.
[3:19:42 - 3:19:43] ▶
He was listening.
[3:19:43 - 3:19:46] ▶
At the end
[3:19:48 - 3:19:48] ▶
of the Cold War,
[3:19:48 - 3:19:49] ▶
you fucked over
[3:19:49 - 3:19:50] ▶
your physicists.
[3:19:50 - 3:19:51] ▶
Who thought this up?
[3:19:51 - 3:19:53] ▶
How dumb are you?
[3:19:54 - 3:19:55] ▶
How dumb
[3:19:56 - 3:19:57] ▶
is the United States
[3:19:57 - 3:19:58] ▶
of America?
[3:19:58 - 3:19:59] ▶
I just don't grasp it.
[3:19:59 - 3:20:01] ▶
On October 30th,
[3:20:01 - 3:20:03] ▶
1993,
[3:20:03 - 3:20:04] ▶
President Clinton
[3:20:04 - 3:20:05] ▶
signed into law
[3:20:05 - 3:20:07] ▶
the death blow
[3:20:07 - 3:20:08] ▶
to the superconducting
[3:20:08 - 3:20:09] ▶
supercollider.
[3:20:09 - 3:20:10] ▶
You have all of these
[3:20:10 - 3:20:11] ▶
deadly ninjas
[3:20:11 - 3:20:12] ▶
running around.
[3:20:12 - 3:20:13] ▶
Tell me something.
[3:20:13 - 3:20:14] ▶
Who were the first people
[3:20:14 - 3:20:16] ▶
the Israelis killed
[3:20:16 - 3:20:17] ▶
in Iran
[3:20:17 - 3:20:18] ▶
when they went in?
[3:20:18 - 3:20:18] ▶
Nuclear scientists?
[3:20:20 - 3:20:21] ▶
Yeah, physicists.
[3:20:21 - 3:20:21] ▶
The Iranian
[3:20:23 - 3:20:24] ▶
Leon Ledermans.
[3:20:24 - 3:20:25] ▶
Yeah.
[3:20:25 - 3:20:26] ▶
Now,
[3:20:27 - 3:20:28] ▶
I was not happy
[3:20:28 - 3:20:29] ▶
about that.
[3:20:29 - 3:20:30] ▶
You know,
[3:20:31 - 3:20:31] ▶
my feeling is
[3:20:31 - 3:20:31] ▶
don't shoot us
[3:20:31 - 3:20:32] ▶
with the piano players.
[3:20:32 - 3:20:33] ▶
But the Israelis
[3:20:33 - 3:20:34] ▶
made a decision
[3:20:34 - 3:20:35] ▶
that the first thing
[3:20:35 - 3:20:36] ▶
you do
[3:20:36 - 3:20:36] ▶
is kill your scientists.
[3:20:36 - 3:20:37] ▶
the thing here is
[3:20:37 - 3:20:40] ▶
if you look
[3:20:40 - 3:20:42] ▶
at the scientists,
[3:20:42 - 3:20:43] ▶
they look like a joke.
[3:20:43 - 3:20:44] ▶
They're playing around
[3:20:45 - 3:20:45] ▶
with toy models
[3:20:45 - 3:20:46] ▶
lying about all the progress
[3:20:46 - 3:20:47] ▶
they're making.
[3:20:47 - 3:20:48] ▶
And my claim is
[3:20:49 - 3:20:50] ▶
is that until you pay
[3:20:50 - 3:20:51] ▶
these people,
[3:20:51 - 3:20:52] ▶
until you stop
[3:20:52 - 3:20:52] ▶
making them afraid,
[3:20:52 - 3:20:53] ▶
until you remove
[3:20:54 - 3:20:56] ▶
your hands
[3:20:56 - 3:20:57] ▶
from around their throats
[3:20:57 - 3:20:58] ▶
with their grants
[3:20:58 - 3:20:58] ▶
and their respectability,
[3:20:58 - 3:21:00] ▶
you're not going
[3:21:00 - 3:21:01] ▶
to get any physics.
[3:21:01 - 3:21:02] ▶
So the alternate
[3:21:02 - 3:21:03] ▶
interpretation of this,
[3:21:03 - 3:21:05] ▶
and I hate to say it,
[3:21:05 - 3:21:06] ▶
is that somebody
[3:21:06 - 3:21:07] ▶
soft-sunsetted
[3:21:07 - 3:21:09] ▶
the world's most vital
[3:21:09 - 3:21:11] ▶
intellectual community,
[3:21:11 - 3:21:12] ▶
which is frontier
[3:21:12 - 3:21:13] ▶
theoretical physicists.
[3:21:13 - 3:21:15] ▶
And basically,
[3:21:15 - 3:21:16] ▶
these people are now
[3:21:16 - 3:21:17] ▶
kind of
[3:21:17 - 3:21:19] ▶
almost buffoonish.
[3:21:19 - 3:21:21] ▶
The Epstein thing
[3:21:21 - 3:21:22] ▶
is a giant tangle.
[3:21:22 - 3:21:23] ▶
And I'm just going
[3:21:24 - 3:21:24] ▶
to say more
[3:21:24 - 3:21:26] ▶
because I said it
[3:21:26 - 3:21:27] ▶
before this last tranche.
[3:21:27 - 3:21:29] ▶
Epstein was running
[3:21:30 - 3:21:31] ▶
many different programs.
[3:21:31 - 3:21:33] ▶
It wasn't even Epstein
[3:21:33 - 3:21:34] ▶
probably running it.
[3:21:34 - 3:21:35] ▶
So call the name
[3:21:35 - 3:21:36] ▶
of the organization
[3:21:36 - 3:21:37] ▶
or the project
[3:21:37 - 3:21:38] ▶
or whatever you want
[3:21:38 - 3:21:38] ▶
to call it,
[3:21:38 - 3:21:39] ▶
Jeffrey Epstein.
[3:21:39 - 3:21:39] ▶
But that does not mean
[3:21:40 - 3:21:41] ▶
that it was Jeffrey Epstein.
[3:21:41 - 3:21:45] ▶
He was not a policymaker.
[3:21:45 - 3:21:46] ▶
I don't know who he was.
[3:21:46 - 3:21:48] ▶
And one of the things
[3:21:48 - 3:21:50] ▶
about responsible
[3:21:50 - 3:21:51] ▶
conspiracy theorizing
[3:21:51 - 3:21:52] ▶
is that you don't
[3:21:52 - 3:21:53] ▶
constantly answer
[3:21:53 - 3:21:54] ▶
the question,
[3:21:54 - 3:21:55] ▶
well, if not X,
[3:21:55 - 3:21:55] ▶
then what?
[3:21:56 - 3:21:56] ▶
Why?
[3:21:56 - 3:21:56] ▶
No.
[3:21:57 - 3:21:57] ▶
I don't know.
[3:21:57 - 3:21:58] ▶
Get used to I don't know.
[3:21:59 - 3:22:00] ▶
There's a lot of
[3:22:00 - 3:22:00] ▶
I don't know in the story.
[3:22:00 - 3:22:01] ▶
I don't think
[3:22:03 - 3:22:04] ▶
he was running
[3:22:04 - 3:22:05] ▶
the Jeffrey Epstein
[3:22:05 - 3:22:06] ▶
special access project
[3:22:06 - 3:22:09] ▶
or whatever it was.
[3:22:09 - 3:22:10] ▶
If it was in the U.S. government,
[3:22:11 - 3:22:12] ▶
it would be a special access.
[3:22:12 - 3:22:13] ▶
Clearly.
[3:22:14 - 3:22:14] ▶
Yeah.
[3:22:14 - 3:22:14] ▶
Somebody was running
[3:22:17 - 3:22:18] ▶
that thing.
[3:22:18 - 3:22:18] ▶
They hired the wrong actor
[3:22:19 - 3:22:20] ▶
because he wasn't
[3:22:20 - 3:22:21] ▶
that great of a friend end.
[3:22:21 - 3:22:22] ▶
Many different things
[3:22:22 - 3:22:25] ▶
were going through it
[3:22:25 - 3:22:26] ▶
at the same time.
[3:22:26 - 3:22:26] ▶
So that plane of his
[3:22:27 - 3:22:28] ▶
is not the Lolita Express.
[3:22:28 - 3:22:29] ▶
It's his.
[3:22:30 - 3:22:30] ▶
It's the plane
[3:22:30 - 3:22:31] ▶
that belonged to the project.
[3:22:31 - 3:22:33] ▶
And it ferried different people
[3:22:33 - 3:22:34] ▶
for different purposes.
[3:22:34 - 3:22:35] ▶
And that island
[3:22:35 - 3:22:36] ▶
is not pedophile island.
[3:22:36 - 3:22:38] ▶
That island may have had
[3:22:39 - 3:22:40] ▶
a tremendous amount
[3:22:40 - 3:22:41] ▶
of pedophilia
[3:22:41 - 3:22:41] ▶
and horrific things going on.
[3:22:41 - 3:22:43] ▶
But it's simply a container
[3:22:43 - 3:22:45] ▶
for whatever was going on
[3:22:45 - 3:22:47] ▶
through this project.
[3:22:47 - 3:22:48] ▶
So now you have the question
[3:22:49 - 3:22:51] ▶
about to what extent
[3:22:51 - 3:22:52] ▶
were the scientists implicated?
[3:22:52 - 3:22:53] ▶
To what extent
[3:22:53 - 3:22:54] ▶
was Jeffrey Epstein
[3:22:54 - 3:22:55] ▶
doing one thing
[3:22:55 - 3:22:55] ▶
saying he was doing another?
[3:22:55 - 3:22:56] ▶
So let me...
[3:22:58 - 3:23:00] ▶
The Department of Energy
[3:23:06 - 3:23:07] ▶
has counterintelligence assets
[3:23:07 - 3:23:10] ▶
and directives.
[3:23:10 - 3:23:12] ▶
You're not supposed to let
[3:23:12 - 3:23:14] ▶
a super rich guy
[3:23:14 - 3:23:15] ▶
with no ostensible means
[3:23:15 - 3:23:18] ▶
of achieving his fortune
[3:23:18 - 3:23:20] ▶
by an enormous ranch,
[3:23:20 - 3:23:23] ▶
a stone's throw
[3:23:24 - 3:23:25] ▶
from Los Alamos
[3:23:25 - 3:23:26] ▶
with the intention
[3:23:26 - 3:23:27] ▶
of talking to high energy
[3:23:27 - 3:23:30] ▶
and weapons physicists
[3:23:30 - 3:23:31] ▶
at the end of the Cold War
[3:23:31 - 3:23:32] ▶
as they lose their funding.
[3:23:32 - 3:23:34] ▶
Who blew this?
[3:23:34 - 3:23:36] ▶
And who blew the fact
[3:23:37 - 3:23:39] ▶
that in the entire
[3:23:39 - 3:23:40] ▶
released information,
[3:23:40 - 3:23:42] ▶
this is the first thing
[3:23:43 - 3:23:44] ▶
I found, you know?
[3:23:44 - 3:23:46] ▶
I was looking for this,
[3:23:46 - 3:23:48] ▶
which is the guy
[3:23:48 - 3:23:49] ▶
set up listening posts.
[3:23:49 - 3:23:51] ▶
He had another listening post
[3:23:52 - 3:23:53] ▶
called One Brattle Square.
[3:23:53 - 3:23:55] ▶
Where is that?
[3:23:56 - 3:23:57] ▶
It's in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
[3:23:57 - 3:24:00] ▶
02138.
[3:24:00 - 3:24:01] ▶
So let me explain.
[3:24:02 - 3:24:03] ▶
Let me spell this out
[3:24:04 - 3:24:06] ▶
for the kids at home.
[3:24:06 - 3:24:06] ▶
The analog of Los Alamos
[3:24:06 - 3:24:14] ▶
is the Harvard Math Department.
[3:24:14 - 3:24:17] ▶
The analog of nuclear
[3:24:18 - 3:24:21] ▶
and theoretical physics
[3:24:21 - 3:24:22] ▶
and high energy physics
[3:24:22 - 3:24:24] ▶
is number theory.
[3:24:24 - 3:24:27] ▶
The benefits of knowing about this,
[3:24:29 - 3:24:32] ▶
in New Mexico,
[3:24:32 - 3:24:34] ▶
it's weapons.
[3:24:35 - 3:24:35] ▶
In Cambridge, Massachusetts,
[3:24:36 - 3:24:37] ▶
it might be cryptography.
[3:24:38 - 3:24:39] ▶
In New Mexico,
[3:24:42 - 3:24:43] ▶
you work with Murray Gelman.
[3:24:43 - 3:24:45] ▶
In Cambridge, Massachusetts,
[3:24:46 - 3:24:47] ▶
you work with Martin Nowak.
[3:24:47 - 3:24:49] ▶
Your base of operations
[3:24:51 - 3:24:53] ▶
in New Mexico
[3:24:53 - 3:24:53] ▶
is called Zorro Ranch.
[3:24:53 - 3:24:55] ▶
In Cambridge, Massachusetts,
[3:24:56 - 3:24:59] ▶
it's called Office 610
[3:24:59 - 3:25:01] ▶
at One Brattle Square.
[3:25:01 - 3:25:02] ▶
I have no idea
[3:25:02 - 3:25:09] ▶
what we just did.
[3:25:09 - 3:25:10] ▶
But whoever is supposed
[3:25:11 - 3:25:13] ▶
to be smart enough
[3:25:13 - 3:25:15] ▶
to protect our crown jewels
[3:25:15 - 3:25:18] ▶
has to recognize
[3:25:18 - 3:25:20] ▶
that just because
[3:25:20 - 3:25:21] ▶
the thinking is
[3:25:21 - 3:25:23] ▶
that he was going to make
[3:25:23 - 3:25:24] ▶
a baby manufacturing facility
[3:25:24 - 3:25:27] ▶
at Zorro Ranch
[3:25:27 - 3:25:28] ▶
and that he was doing
[3:25:28 - 3:25:28] ▶
evolutionary dynamics at Harvard.
[3:25:28 - 3:25:30] ▶
I see no reason
[3:25:30 - 3:25:32] ▶
to think that those
[3:25:32 - 3:25:33] ▶
aren't cover stories.
[3:25:33 - 3:25:34] ▶
Well, what you just articulated,
[3:25:36 - 3:25:37] ▶
I think only a specific milieu
[3:25:38 - 3:25:41] ▶
of people could even strategize
[3:25:41 - 3:25:42] ▶
for, like, clearly Epstein himself
[3:25:43 - 3:25:46] ▶
wasn't making that calculation.
[3:25:46 - 3:25:47] ▶
No, no, no.
[3:25:47 - 3:25:47] ▶
Listen to what Bannon
[3:25:48 - 3:25:49] ▶
asked Epstein.
[3:25:49 - 3:25:50] ▶
He said,
[3:25:50 - 3:25:51] ▶
so wait a minute,
[3:25:51 - 3:25:52] ▶
you bought this ranch
[3:25:52 - 3:25:53] ▶
and you founded
[3:25:53 - 3:25:56] ▶
the Santa Fe Institute?
[3:25:56 - 3:25:57] ▶
Yeah, around 1993.
[3:25:58 - 3:25:58] ▶
Okay, who founded
[3:26:00 - 3:26:01] ▶
the Santa Fe Institute?
[3:26:01 - 3:26:02] ▶
Not Jeffrey Epstein.
[3:26:03 - 3:26:04] ▶
What year was it founded?
[3:26:04 - 3:26:05] ▶
1984?
[3:26:07 - 3:26:07] ▶
Then he says,
[3:26:07 - 3:26:11] ▶
Murray Gelman,
[3:26:11 - 3:26:12] ▶
at the time
[3:26:12 - 3:26:13] ▶
that he founded,
[3:26:13 - 3:26:14] ▶
that Jeffrey Epstein
[3:26:14 - 3:26:15] ▶
founded the Santa Fe Institute,
[3:26:15 - 3:26:16] ▶
founded,
[3:26:16 - 3:26:17] ▶
I'm not sure.
[3:26:17 - 3:26:17] ▶
He did give money,
[3:26:18 - 3:26:19] ▶
but he's not
[3:26:19 - 3:26:20] ▶
behind the Santa Fe Institute.
[3:26:20 - 3:26:23] ▶
He says,
[3:26:24 - 3:26:25] ▶
Murray Gelman
[3:26:25 - 3:26:25] ▶
was working out
[3:26:25 - 3:26:26] ▶
the word
[3:26:26 - 3:26:27] ▶
for quarks
[3:26:27 - 3:26:28] ▶
around then.
[3:26:28 - 3:26:31] ▶
Quarks were named
[3:26:32 - 3:26:32] ▶
much, much earlier.
[3:26:32 - 3:26:33] ▶
He has no idea
[3:26:34 - 3:26:34] ▶
what he's talking about.
[3:26:34 - 3:26:35] ▶
Right, so there's
[3:26:35 - 3:26:36] ▶
some telephone game
[3:26:36 - 3:26:37] ▶
at play.
[3:26:37 - 3:26:37] ▶
Yeah, and then he says,
[3:26:38 - 3:26:38] ▶
you know, quarks
[3:26:38 - 3:26:39] ▶
had a certain,
[3:26:39 - 3:26:39] ▶
they had color,
[3:26:39 - 3:26:40] ▶
they had flavor,
[3:26:41 - 3:26:41] ▶
they had a charm.
[3:26:42 - 3:26:43] ▶
He says,
[3:26:44 - 3:26:44] ▶
nobody knows
[3:26:44 - 3:26:45] ▶
what these things mean.
[3:26:45 - 3:26:46] ▶
Okay, yes.
[3:26:46 - 3:26:48] ▶
SU3 flavor
[3:26:49 - 3:26:50] ▶
was a failed scheme
[3:26:50 - 3:26:52] ▶
for lumping
[3:26:52 - 3:26:54] ▶
the up, down,
[3:26:54 - 3:26:55] ▶
and strange quarks
[3:26:56 - 3:26:57] ▶
into a multiplet
[3:26:57 - 3:26:58] ▶
in complex
[3:26:58 - 3:26:59] ▶
three-dimensional space.
[3:26:59 - 3:27:00] ▶
Charm and strange
[3:27:02 - 3:27:03] ▶
are the names
[3:27:03 - 3:27:05] ▶
of second generation
[3:27:05 - 3:27:06] ▶
quarks.
[3:27:06 - 3:27:10] ▶
QCD,
[3:27:11 - 3:27:11] ▶
we very well understand
[3:27:11 - 3:27:13] ▶
what a lot of it means
[3:27:13 - 3:27:14] ▶
because in part,
[3:27:14 - 3:27:15] ▶
it has this property
[3:27:16 - 3:27:17] ▶
of asymptotic freedom
[3:27:17 - 3:27:19] ▶
so that it becomes
[3:27:19 - 3:27:20] ▶
a free theory.
[3:27:20 - 3:27:21] ▶
It's one of the,
[3:27:21 - 3:27:22] ▶
it's the only theory
[3:27:22 - 3:27:23] ▶
we have that's physical
[3:27:23 - 3:27:24] ▶
that extrapolates
[3:27:24 - 3:27:25] ▶
all the way
[3:27:25 - 3:27:26] ▶
to the Planck level.
[3:27:26 - 3:27:26] ▶
This guy had no idea
[3:27:28 - 3:27:29] ▶
what he's talking about.
[3:27:29 - 3:27:30] ▶
He didn't have an idea
[3:27:31 - 3:27:32] ▶
of what he was talking
[3:27:32 - 3:27:33] ▶
about in currency trading.
[3:27:33 - 3:27:34] ▶
And yet,
[3:27:35 - 3:27:36] ▶
he knew
[3:27:36 - 3:27:36] ▶
to infiltrate
[3:27:36 - 3:27:38] ▶
Harvard's math department.
[3:27:38 - 3:27:39] ▶
Or somebody did.
[3:27:39 - 3:27:40] ▶
That's what I'm saying.
[3:27:40 - 3:27:42] ▶
Somebody behind him
[3:27:42 - 3:27:44] ▶
knew that,
[3:27:44 - 3:27:44] ▶
clearly,
[3:27:44 - 3:27:45] ▶
because what you just
[3:27:45 - 3:27:47] ▶
articulated about
[3:27:47 - 3:27:47] ▶
particle theory
[3:27:47 - 3:27:48] ▶
and number theory
[3:27:48 - 3:27:49] ▶
and those two places.
[3:27:49 - 3:27:50] ▶
But nobody's thinking
[3:27:50 - 3:27:51] ▶
number theory
[3:27:51 - 3:27:52] ▶
because the emphasis
[3:27:52 - 3:27:53] ▶
is on the program
[3:27:53 - 3:27:54] ▶
on evolutionary dynamics.
[3:27:54 - 3:27:55] ▶
Martin Nowak
[3:27:55 - 3:27:58] ▶
doesn't know anything
[3:27:58 - 3:27:59] ▶
about number theory.
[3:27:59 - 3:27:59] ▶
My claim is,
[3:28:02 - 3:28:03] ▶
is that who,
[3:28:03 - 3:28:04] ▶
who started the program
[3:28:04 - 3:28:06] ▶
in evolutionary dynamics?
[3:28:06 - 3:28:07] ▶
There's a different guy
[3:28:08 - 3:28:09] ▶
named Dick Gross
[3:28:09 - 3:28:09] ▶
who's a number theorist.
[3:28:09 - 3:28:11] ▶
Hmm.
[3:28:11 - 3:28:12] ▶
And Harvard references
[3:28:13 - 3:28:14] ▶
an imaginative proposal
[3:28:14 - 3:28:16] ▶
by Benedict Gross
[3:28:16 - 3:28:17] ▶
and Jeffrey Epstein.
[3:28:17 - 3:28:18] ▶
Oh,
[3:28:19 - 3:28:19] ▶
so his initial contact
[3:28:20 - 3:28:21] ▶
was a number theorist.
[3:28:21 - 3:28:22] ▶
How interesting.
[3:28:23 - 3:28:24] ▶
Okay.
[3:28:24 - 3:28:24] ▶
So strange.
[3:28:25 - 3:28:26] ▶
And then he's,
[3:28:27 - 3:28:27] ▶
you know,
[3:28:27 - 3:28:28] ▶
he's funding Joyito
[3:28:28 - 3:28:29] ▶
and this,
[3:28:29 - 3:28:30] ▶
you know,
[3:28:30 - 3:28:32] ▶
Bitcoin initiative.
[3:28:32 - 3:28:33] ▶
Well,
[3:28:35 - 3:28:35] ▶
that's about crypto.
[3:28:35 - 3:28:36] ▶
I'm just saying,
[3:28:38 - 3:28:39] ▶
look,
[3:28:40 - 3:28:40] ▶
I don't know what happened,
[3:28:40 - 3:28:41] ▶
but,
[3:28:42 - 3:28:43] ▶
I hate saying it this way.
[3:28:45 - 3:28:47] ▶
Are there no smart people?
[3:28:47 - 3:28:48] ▶
Like,
[3:28:51 - 3:28:52] ▶
a hundred of my friends
[3:28:52 - 3:28:53] ▶
in mathematics
[3:28:53 - 3:28:54] ▶
and physics
[3:28:54 - 3:28:55] ▶
should be on this thing.
[3:28:55 - 3:28:56] ▶
And they've,
[3:28:57 - 3:28:57] ▶
they've got everyone scared
[3:28:57 - 3:28:59] ▶
that to utter the words
[3:28:59 - 3:29:02] ▶
that are obvious
[3:29:02 - 3:29:02] ▶
to any one of us.
[3:29:02 - 3:29:04] ▶
Like,
[3:29:04 - 3:29:04] ▶
why,
[3:29:04 - 3:29:05] ▶
why were all of these
[3:29:05 - 3:29:06] ▶
super smart people
[3:29:06 - 3:29:07] ▶
hanging on Jeffrey Epstein's
[3:29:07 - 3:29:08] ▶
every word?
[3:29:08 - 3:29:09] ▶
So weird.
[3:29:11 - 3:29:12] ▶
Well,
[3:29:12 - 3:29:12] ▶
no,
[3:29:12 - 3:29:12] ▶
it's not weird.
[3:29:13 - 3:29:13] ▶
Have you ever noticed
[3:29:14 - 3:29:16] ▶
how interesting astrology
[3:29:16 - 3:29:17] ▶
becomes
[3:29:17 - 3:29:18] ▶
when it's explained to you
[3:29:18 - 3:29:19] ▶
by a woman
[3:29:19 - 3:29:20] ▶
in a really low cut dress?
[3:29:20 - 3:29:22] ▶
Right?
[3:29:22 - 3:29:24] ▶
Suddenly it's like,
[3:29:24 - 3:29:25] ▶
Virgo?
[3:29:25 - 3:29:26] ▶
I never knew that.
[3:29:26 - 3:29:27] ▶
Wow.
[3:29:27 - 3:29:28] ▶
Oh,
[3:29:29 - 3:29:29] ▶
retrograde.
[3:29:29 - 3:29:30] ▶
That makes everything
[3:29:30 - 3:29:31] ▶
make sense.
[3:29:31 - 3:29:31] ▶
When,
[3:29:32 - 3:29:32] ▶
when rich people are around,
[3:29:32 - 3:29:34] ▶
it has much the same effect.
[3:29:34 - 3:29:35] ▶
People blow smoke
[3:29:36 - 3:29:38] ▶
up rich people's
[3:29:38 - 3:29:40] ▶
backsides
[3:29:40 - 3:29:41] ▶
all the time.
[3:29:41 - 3:29:42] ▶
They just,
[3:29:42 - 3:29:42] ▶
that is so insightful.
[3:29:43 - 3:29:44] ▶
That's what all these people
[3:29:45 - 3:29:46] ▶
were doing.
[3:29:46 - 3:29:46] ▶
We were all starved
[3:29:47 - 3:29:48] ▶
for funding
[3:29:48 - 3:29:49] ▶
because the Vannevar Bush
[3:29:49 - 3:29:51] ▶
arrangement
[3:29:51 - 3:29:51] ▶
has been welched upon.
[3:29:51 - 3:29:53] ▶
And so you've got
[3:29:54 - 3:29:55] ▶
all of these
[3:29:55 - 3:29:55] ▶
starving ninjas
[3:29:55 - 3:29:56] ▶
who have
[3:29:56 - 3:29:57] ▶
skills that are
[3:29:57 - 3:29:59] ▶
pretty advanced
[3:29:59 - 3:30:00] ▶
and dangerous
[3:30:00 - 3:30:01] ▶
fawning
[3:30:01 - 3:30:02] ▶
over this crazy guy
[3:30:02 - 3:30:04] ▶
because he's got
[3:30:04 - 3:30:05] ▶
an island
[3:30:05 - 3:30:06] ▶
and a jet.
[3:30:06 - 3:30:06] ▶
Where do you think,
[3:30:09 - 3:30:10] ▶
moving on
[3:30:10 - 3:30:12] ▶
to higher ground,
[3:30:12 - 3:30:13] ▶
where do you think
[3:30:13 - 3:30:15] ▶
all this UFO stuff goes?
[3:30:15 - 3:30:17] ▶
Because you have
[3:30:17 - 3:30:18] ▶
more official disclosures
[3:30:18 - 3:30:21] ▶
at a very high level
[3:30:21 - 3:30:23] ▶
going on
[3:30:23 - 3:30:24] ▶
than ever.
[3:30:24 - 3:30:24] ▶
You have rumors
[3:30:25 - 3:30:26] ▶
of Trump
[3:30:26 - 3:30:28] ▶
saying things.
[3:30:28 - 3:30:29] ▶
You hear smatterings
[3:30:30 - 3:30:31] ▶
of people,
[3:30:31 - 3:30:32] ▶
at least peripheral
[3:30:32 - 3:30:33] ▶
to the admin,
[3:30:33 - 3:30:33] ▶
pretty interested
[3:30:34 - 3:30:35] ▶
in the issue.
[3:30:35 - 3:30:36] ▶
Donald Trump Jr.
[3:30:36 - 3:30:37] ▶
interviewed Ross Coulthart
[3:30:38 - 3:30:39] ▶
last year,
[3:30:39 - 3:30:40] ▶
you know,
[3:30:40 - 3:30:40] ▶
who's a UFO
[3:30:40 - 3:30:41] ▶
investigator
[3:30:41 - 3:30:42] ▶
journalist.
[3:30:42 - 3:30:43] ▶
Do you remember
[3:30:43 - 3:30:44] ▶
how Trump wanted
[3:30:44 - 3:30:45] ▶
to get to the bottom
[3:30:45 - 3:30:46] ▶
of the Epstein files?
[3:30:46 - 3:30:47] ▶
Yep.
[3:30:48 - 3:30:48] ▶
You could,
[3:30:49 - 3:30:50] ▶
forgive me
[3:30:51 - 3:30:52] ▶
for wondering
[3:30:52 - 3:30:52] ▶
what happened
[3:30:52 - 3:30:53] ▶
to that zeal.
[3:30:53 - 3:30:54] ▶
Do you think
[3:30:55 - 3:30:55] ▶
the same thing
[3:30:55 - 3:30:56] ▶
will apply
[3:30:56 - 3:30:57] ▶
to secret physics,
[3:30:57 - 3:30:58] ▶
UFOs?
[3:30:58 - 3:30:58] ▶
This is what people
[3:30:58 - 3:30:59] ▶
don't understand
[3:30:59 - 3:31:00] ▶
about Washington, D.C.
[3:31:00 - 3:31:01] ▶
You have all sorts
[3:31:02 - 3:31:03] ▶
of people
[3:31:03 - 3:31:04] ▶
who don't understand
[3:31:04 - 3:31:05] ▶
what Washington, D.C.
[3:31:05 - 3:31:06] ▶
is or how it works,
[3:31:06 - 3:31:08] ▶
who outside of the Beltway
[3:31:08 - 3:31:10] ▶
form beliefs
[3:31:10 - 3:31:11] ▶
about what they're
[3:31:11 - 3:31:12] ▶
going to do
[3:31:12 - 3:31:12] ▶
once they get
[3:31:12 - 3:31:13] ▶
to Washington.
[3:31:13 - 3:31:13] ▶
And they change
[3:31:14 - 3:31:15] ▶
almost instantly.
[3:31:15 - 3:31:16] ▶
Well,
[3:31:17 - 3:31:18] ▶
it's like
[3:31:18 - 3:31:20] ▶
the Drain the Swamp
[3:31:20 - 3:31:22] ▶
guy turns out
[3:31:22 - 3:31:23] ▶
met his wife
[3:31:23 - 3:31:25] ▶
through Epstein.
[3:31:25 - 3:31:25] ▶
You know,
[3:31:26 - 3:31:26] ▶
it's this thing
[3:31:26 - 3:31:27] ▶
where I think
[3:31:27 - 3:31:29] ▶
in that world,
[3:31:29 - 3:31:30] ▶
everyone got
[3:31:31 - 3:31:32] ▶
tagged.
[3:31:32 - 3:31:33] ▶
And so,
[3:31:33 - 3:31:34] ▶
maybe this is
[3:31:34 - 3:31:34] ▶
the same thing
[3:31:34 - 3:31:35] ▶
that goes on
[3:31:35 - 3:31:36] ▶
with the UFO stuff.
[3:31:36 - 3:31:36] ▶
I don't know.
[3:31:36 - 3:31:37] ▶
But like,
[3:31:38 - 3:31:38] ▶
there's something
[3:31:38 - 3:31:39] ▶
that will cause
[3:31:39 - 3:31:40] ▶
you not to want
[3:31:40 - 3:31:41] ▶
to reveal things.
[3:31:41 - 3:31:42] ▶
Right.
[3:31:42 - 3:31:43] ▶
Like it's somehow
[3:31:43 - 3:31:44] ▶
Trump gets implicated
[3:31:44 - 3:31:45] ▶
in the UFO thing
[3:31:45 - 3:31:47] ▶
in some weird way.
[3:31:47 - 3:31:48] ▶
Or, I don't know.
[3:31:48 - 3:31:49] ▶
Or it's insanely lucrative
[3:31:49 - 3:31:50] ▶
to control
[3:31:50 - 3:31:51] ▶
instead of to disclose.
[3:31:51 - 3:31:52] ▶
Sure,
[3:31:53 - 3:31:53] ▶
it could be that.
[3:31:53 - 3:31:54] ▶
Yeah.
[3:31:54 - 3:31:54] ▶
Or,
[3:31:54 - 3:31:55] ▶
maybe the idea
[3:31:55 - 3:31:56] ▶
is that whatever
[3:31:56 - 3:31:57] ▶
this information is,
[3:31:57 - 3:31:59] ▶
assume it's the cover story
[3:32:00 - 3:32:01] ▶
for a weapon system
[3:32:01 - 3:32:03] ▶
that is easy to create
[3:32:03 - 3:32:05] ▶
and completely dangerous.
[3:32:05 - 3:32:07] ▶
Like,
[3:32:08 - 3:32:08] ▶
I keep giving the example
[3:32:09 - 3:32:10] ▶
of a thing
[3:32:10 - 3:32:11] ▶
that doesn't exist.
[3:32:11 - 3:32:12] ▶
And the thing
[3:32:12 - 3:32:13] ▶
that doesn't exist
[3:32:13 - 3:32:14] ▶
is an energy beam
[3:32:14 - 3:32:16] ▶
that can be focused
[3:32:16 - 3:32:19] ▶
on the opposite side
[3:32:19 - 3:32:20] ▶
of the planet
[3:32:20 - 3:32:20] ▶
at any particular
[3:32:20 - 3:32:22] ▶
latitude and longitude
[3:32:22 - 3:32:23] ▶
that you give it.
[3:32:23 - 3:32:24] ▶
So,
[3:32:25 - 3:32:25] ▶
you point a mythological gun
[3:32:25 - 3:32:28] ▶
into the ground
[3:32:28 - 3:32:29] ▶
in a particular direction.
[3:32:29 - 3:32:30] ▶
you calculate the effect
[3:32:30 - 3:32:32] ▶
of the Earth
[3:32:32 - 3:32:32] ▶
on the beam
[3:32:32 - 3:32:35] ▶
that you,
[3:32:35 - 3:32:35] ▶
and then you vaporize it.
[3:32:35 - 3:32:37] ▶
So,
[3:32:37 - 3:32:37] ▶
you have somebody's
[3:32:37 - 3:32:38] ▶
cell phone coordinates,
[3:32:38 - 3:32:39] ▶
suddenly that person
[3:32:39 - 3:32:39] ▶
is no more.
[3:32:39 - 3:32:40] ▶
This is like a scalar weapon
[3:32:41 - 3:32:42] ▶
in the UFOlogy.
[3:32:42 - 3:32:44] ▶
I'm not gonna talk
[3:32:44 - 3:32:45] ▶
garbage stuff.
[3:32:45 - 3:32:46] ▶
I'm just gonna say,
[3:32:46 - 3:32:46] ▶
imagine that this existed.
[3:32:47 - 3:32:48] ▶
Right?
[3:32:49 - 3:32:49] ▶
So,
[3:32:49 - 3:32:49] ▶
you know
[3:32:50 - 3:32:50] ▶
that you can transmit energy
[3:32:50 - 3:32:52] ▶
and hurt something,
[3:32:52 - 3:32:53] ▶
and you know
[3:32:53 - 3:32:54] ▶
that you can transmit neutrinos
[3:32:54 - 3:32:55] ▶
through an entire planet
[3:32:55 - 3:32:56] ▶
and they'll go through.
[3:32:56 - 3:32:57] ▶
You just don't know
[3:32:58 - 3:32:58] ▶
how to recombine neutrinos
[3:32:58 - 3:32:59] ▶
on the other side
[3:32:59 - 3:33:00] ▶
right?
[3:33:00 - 3:33:02] ▶
So,
[3:33:02 - 3:33:02] ▶
you know,
[3:33:03 - 3:33:03] ▶
it's theoretically,
[3:33:03 - 3:33:04] ▶
I don't wanna get into it,
[3:33:04 - 3:33:06] ▶
just trying to say,
[3:33:06 - 3:33:06] ▶
imagine you have
[3:33:07 - 3:33:07] ▶
some imagination.
[3:33:07 - 3:33:08] ▶
You say,
[3:33:08 - 3:33:08] ▶
if I can have a beam
[3:33:08 - 3:33:10] ▶
of neutrinos
[3:33:10 - 3:33:11] ▶
because I could direct
[3:33:11 - 3:33:12] ▶
a charged particle
[3:33:12 - 3:33:12] ▶
and then I get a decay
[3:33:12 - 3:33:13] ▶
and that gives me
[3:33:13 - 3:33:15] ▶
the momentum
[3:33:15 - 3:33:15] ▶
in this particular direction,
[3:33:15 - 3:33:16] ▶
now can I refocus
[3:33:16 - 3:33:17] ▶
the neutrinos
[3:33:17 - 3:33:18] ▶
and get them to convert
[3:33:18 - 3:33:19] ▶
on the other side
[3:33:19 - 3:33:20] ▶
and protect a particular,
[3:33:20 - 3:33:21] ▶
is there any way
[3:33:22 - 3:33:23] ▶
to induce that?
[3:33:23 - 3:33:23] ▶
That's a theoretical idea.
[3:33:24 - 3:33:25] ▶
I don't see any way
[3:33:25 - 3:33:26] ▶
of doing it.
[3:33:26 - 3:33:26] ▶
But what if you had
[3:33:26 - 3:33:29] ▶
such a weapon
[3:33:29 - 3:33:30] ▶
and it was easy?
[3:33:30 - 3:33:31] ▶
Now you'd say,
[3:33:33 - 3:33:34] ▶
okay,
[3:33:34 - 3:33:34] ▶
are you telling me
[3:33:34 - 3:33:35] ▶
that everyone on Earth
[3:33:35 - 3:33:36] ▶
can build their own
[3:33:36 - 3:33:37] ▶
and just point it
[3:33:37 - 3:33:39] ▶
and vaporize stuff?
[3:33:39 - 3:33:41] ▶
Right?
[3:33:42 - 3:33:42] ▶
That'd be terrifying.
[3:33:42 - 3:33:43] ▶
What if you could unhook
[3:33:43 - 3:33:45] ▶
the true vacuum
[3:33:45 - 3:33:47] ▶
of the Higgs field
[3:33:47 - 3:33:48] ▶
and get some kind
[3:33:48 - 3:33:49] ▶
of vacuum decay?
[3:33:49 - 3:33:50] ▶
Like,
[3:33:50 - 3:33:50] ▶
we don't know
[3:33:51 - 3:33:53] ▶
whether hidden in physics
[3:33:53 - 3:33:55] ▶
our power is so vast
[3:33:55 - 3:33:59] ▶
that anybody
[3:33:59 - 3:33:59] ▶
who sees what could happen
[3:33:59 - 3:34:01] ▶
keeps their mouth shut.
[3:34:01 - 3:34:02] ▶
We just don't know.
[3:34:05 - 3:34:06] ▶
Now,
[3:34:07 - 3:34:07] ▶
the one thing
[3:34:07 - 3:34:08] ▶
that I believe,
[3:34:08 - 3:34:09] ▶
and again,
[3:34:09 - 3:34:09] ▶
you guys don't have
[3:34:09 - 3:34:10] ▶
to believe it,
[3:34:10 - 3:34:12] ▶
but I believe
[3:34:12 - 3:34:13] ▶
that if geometric unity
[3:34:13 - 3:34:15] ▶
is as rich
[3:34:15 - 3:34:16] ▶
as I say it is,
[3:34:16 - 3:34:17] ▶
it doesn't even have
[3:34:17 - 3:34:18] ▶
to be correct,
[3:34:18 - 3:34:19] ▶
it just has to be rich.
[3:34:19 - 3:34:20] ▶
It is inconceivable
[3:34:22 - 3:34:24] ▶
to me
[3:34:24 - 3:34:24] ▶
that there is no interest
[3:34:24 - 3:34:26] ▶
in it
[3:34:26 - 3:34:27] ▶
from the very people
[3:34:27 - 3:34:29] ▶
who funded
[3:34:29 - 3:34:30] ▶
my education.
[3:34:30 - 3:34:32] ▶
The Office of Naval Research
[3:34:34 - 3:34:35] ▶
funded my graduate education,
[3:34:35 - 3:34:37] ▶
and the National Science Foundation
[3:34:38 - 3:34:39] ▶
funded my postdoctoral position.
[3:34:39 - 3:34:44] ▶
And I believe
[3:34:45 - 3:34:45] ▶
I was put on
[3:34:45 - 3:34:46] ▶
a Department of Energy grant,
[3:34:46 - 3:34:47] ▶
which is very unusual
[3:34:47 - 3:34:48] ▶
for a mathematician
[3:34:48 - 3:34:49] ▶
because Isadora Singer
[3:34:49 - 3:34:50] ▶
had one.
[3:34:50 - 3:34:51] ▶
None of those people
[3:34:51 - 3:34:53] ▶
have any interest
[3:34:53 - 3:34:55] ▶
whatsoever
[3:34:55 - 3:34:55] ▶
in what I'm saying,
[3:34:55 - 3:34:57] ▶
which is fascinating
[3:34:58 - 3:34:59] ▶
because even if it's wrong,
[3:34:59 - 3:35:00] ▶
I wouldn't take the chance.
[3:35:00 - 3:35:01] ▶
It's a studied level
[3:35:02 - 3:35:04] ▶
of disinterest
[3:35:04 - 3:35:05] ▶
that doesn't really add up.
[3:35:05 - 3:35:06] ▶
Like,
[3:35:07 - 3:35:07] ▶
I can tell you
[3:35:07 - 3:35:08] ▶
lots of people
[3:35:08 - 3:35:08] ▶
whose theories
[3:35:08 - 3:35:09] ▶
are almost certainly wrong.
[3:35:09 - 3:35:10] ▶
If I were the government,
[3:35:11 - 3:35:12] ▶
I would want to keep tabs
[3:35:12 - 3:35:13] ▶
on every last one
[3:35:13 - 3:35:15] ▶
of the competent people.
[3:35:15 - 3:35:16] ▶
It doesn't matter
[3:35:16 - 3:35:17] ▶
whether they're wrong.
[3:35:17 - 3:35:18] ▶
They're just dangerous.
[3:35:18 - 3:35:19] ▶
What if they're right?
[3:35:19 - 3:35:20] ▶
Do you have a mental model
[3:35:20 - 3:35:23] ▶
on why this stuff
[3:35:23 - 3:35:24] ▶
is coming out more now,
[3:35:24 - 3:35:25] ▶
post-2017,
[3:35:26 - 3:35:27] ▶
this New York Times article?
[3:35:28 - 3:35:29] ▶
Well,
[3:35:29 - 3:35:29] ▶
things are breaking.
[3:35:29 - 3:35:30] ▶
There was a regime
[3:35:30 - 3:35:31] ▶
that is breaking.
[3:35:31 - 3:35:33] ▶
Like,
[3:35:34 - 3:35:34] ▶
I was thinking about
[3:35:34 - 3:35:36] ▶
posting an interview
[3:35:36 - 3:35:37] ▶
between Brian Green
[3:35:37 - 3:35:38] ▶
and Ed Witten
[3:35:38 - 3:35:39] ▶
that was done recently
[3:35:39 - 3:35:41] ▶
without editorial
[3:35:41 - 3:35:42] ▶
just to indicate
[3:35:42 - 3:35:45] ▶
how crazy
[3:35:45 - 3:35:46] ▶
the level of
[3:35:46 - 3:35:47] ▶
string theorist madness
[3:35:47 - 3:35:48] ▶
is because it's,
[3:35:48 - 3:35:49] ▶
you know,
[3:35:50 - 3:35:51] ▶
this phrase in Latin
[3:35:51 - 3:35:52] ▶
res ipsa loquit
[3:35:52 - 3:35:53] ▶
or the thing
[3:35:53 - 3:35:53] ▶
speaks for itself.
[3:35:53 - 3:35:54] ▶
I don't have to throw
[3:35:55 - 3:35:56] ▶
potshots at it.
[3:35:56 - 3:35:59] ▶
The claim
[3:36:00 - 3:36:02] ▶
that,
[3:36:02 - 3:36:03] ▶
you know,
[3:36:03 - 3:36:04] ▶
string theory
[3:36:06 - 3:36:07] ▶
is about to figure it all out
[3:36:07 - 3:36:08] ▶
is a joke
[3:36:08 - 3:36:09] ▶
in and of itself.
[3:36:09 - 3:36:10] ▶
So imagine that
[3:36:11 - 3:36:12] ▶
that was the
[3:36:12 - 3:36:12] ▶
cock-blocking mechanism
[3:36:12 - 3:36:14] ▶
to keep people
[3:36:14 - 3:36:14] ▶
from doing,
[3:36:14 - 3:36:15] ▶
you know,
[3:36:15 - 3:36:16] ▶
dangerous physics work
[3:36:16 - 3:36:18] ▶
as per Andreessen
[3:36:18 - 3:36:19] ▶
and Horowitz.
[3:36:19 - 3:36:20] ▶
It's expiring.
[3:36:22 - 3:36:23] ▶
And
[3:36:26 - 3:36:26] ▶
I think that
[3:36:26 - 3:36:28] ▶
a lot of things
[3:36:28 - 3:36:28] ▶
are happening right now
[3:36:28 - 3:36:30] ▶
because the old order
[3:36:30 - 3:36:31] ▶
that was set up
[3:36:31 - 3:36:32] ▶
to manage all this
[3:36:32 - 3:36:33] ▶
is two generations,
[3:36:33 - 3:36:35] ▶
three generations
[3:36:35 - 3:36:36] ▶
out from the architects.
[3:36:36 - 3:36:37] ▶
We have these
[3:36:37 - 3:36:37] ▶
genius administrators
[3:36:37 - 3:36:39] ▶
like Vannevar Bush.
[3:36:39 - 3:36:40] ▶
And they set up
[3:36:40 - 3:36:43] ▶
these structures
[3:36:43 - 3:36:43] ▶
and the structures
[3:36:43 - 3:36:44] ▶
worked pretty well,
[3:36:44 - 3:36:45] ▶
but then
[3:36:46 - 3:36:46] ▶
they didn't pass
[3:36:46 - 3:36:47] ▶
the knowledge
[3:36:47 - 3:36:48] ▶
of what the structures
[3:36:48 - 3:36:49] ▶
were and how
[3:36:49 - 3:36:50] ▶
all these tacit
[3:36:50 - 3:36:50] ▶
understandings
[3:36:50 - 3:36:51] ▶
and cryptic
[3:36:51 - 3:36:52] ▶
arrangements worked
[3:36:52 - 3:36:53] ▶
so that the modern
[3:36:53 - 3:36:54] ▶
people who've inherited
[3:36:54 - 3:36:55] ▶
the structures
[3:36:55 - 3:36:56] ▶
basically don't even
[3:36:56 - 3:36:57] ▶
understand what
[3:36:57 - 3:36:57] ▶
they're for.
[3:36:57 - 3:36:58] ▶
You know,
[3:37:00 - 3:37:00] ▶
I talked to the
[3:37:00 - 3:37:00] ▶
provost of a
[3:37:00 - 3:37:01] ▶
UC university,
[3:37:01 - 3:37:03] ▶
major research
[3:37:03 - 3:37:04] ▶
university.
[3:37:04 - 3:37:04] ▶
He had no idea
[3:37:04 - 3:37:06] ▶
how the laws
[3:37:06 - 3:37:08] ▶
had been changed
[3:37:08 - 3:37:08] ▶
to secretly benefit
[3:37:08 - 3:37:10] ▶
universities
[3:37:10 - 3:37:10] ▶
for doing
[3:37:10 - 3:37:11] ▶
particular kinds
[3:37:11 - 3:37:12] ▶
of work.
[3:37:12 - 3:37:12] ▶
So very often
[3:37:13 - 3:37:14] ▶
what happens
[3:37:14 - 3:37:14] ▶
is that the architects
[3:37:14 - 3:37:16] ▶
die and they
[3:37:16 - 3:37:16] ▶
leave a zombie.
[3:37:16 - 3:37:17] ▶
We seem to be
[3:37:18 - 3:37:19] ▶
in a zombie era.
[3:37:19 - 3:37:20] ▶
It's a little
[3:37:21 - 3:37:22] ▶
cargo cult
[3:37:22 - 3:37:23] ▶
and then you probably
[3:37:23 - 3:37:24] ▶
have people at the
[3:37:24 - 3:37:24] ▶
top freaking out
[3:37:24 - 3:37:25] ▶
saying we need
[3:37:25 - 3:37:26] ▶
to get in front
[3:37:26 - 3:37:27] ▶
of this
[3:37:27 - 3:37:27] ▶
and actually
[3:37:27 - 3:37:28] ▶
reorganize
[3:37:28 - 3:37:29] ▶
as our
[3:37:29 - 3:37:30] ▶
multipolar
[3:37:30 - 3:37:31] ▶
nuclear world
[3:37:31 - 3:37:33] ▶
gets more
[3:37:33 - 3:37:34] ▶
and more hot.
[3:37:34 - 3:37:36] ▶
But how strange
[3:37:37 - 3:37:38] ▶
that you can't
[3:37:38 - 3:37:39] ▶
talk to your own
[3:37:39 - 3:37:40] ▶
top people.
[3:37:40 - 3:37:40] ▶
Yeah,
[3:37:42 - 3:37:42] ▶
it's weird.
[3:37:42 - 3:37:42] ▶
And as it pertains
[3:37:43 - 3:37:43] ▶
to legacy program,
[3:37:43 - 3:37:44] ▶
the people at the
[3:37:45 - 3:37:45] ▶
top panicking
[3:37:45 - 3:37:46] ▶
might also be
[3:37:46 - 3:37:47] ▶
disappearing
[3:37:47 - 3:37:48] ▶
such that
[3:37:48 - 3:37:49] ▶
awareness of
[3:37:49 - 3:37:49] ▶
the problem
[3:37:49 - 3:37:50] ▶
could be dying.
[3:37:50 - 3:37:51] ▶
Well,
[3:37:52 - 3:37:52] ▶
I'm explaining
[3:37:52 - 3:37:53] ▶
modern UFO
[3:37:53 - 3:37:54] ▶
disclosure
[3:37:54 - 3:37:54] ▶
through this
[3:37:54 - 3:37:55] ▶
idea of,
[3:37:55 - 3:37:56] ▶
you know,
[3:37:56 - 3:37:57] ▶
national security
[3:37:57 - 3:37:58] ▶
that we would
[3:37:58 - 3:37:58] ▶
actually try
[3:37:58 - 3:37:59] ▶
to get this
[3:37:59 - 3:38:00] ▶
stuff out.
[3:38:00 - 3:38:00] ▶
But yeah,
[3:38:01 - 3:38:01] ▶
it is this weird
[3:38:01 - 3:38:02] ▶
cloak and dagger,
[3:38:02 - 3:38:03] ▶
tongue in cheek
[3:38:03 - 3:38:04] ▶
sort of like
[3:38:04 - 3:38:05] ▶
it's not over
[3:38:05 - 3:38:07] ▶
at all.
[3:38:07 - 3:38:07] ▶
It's still like,
[3:38:08 - 3:38:08] ▶
like even,
[3:38:08 - 3:38:09] ▶
you know,
[3:38:09 - 3:38:09] ▶
you mentioned
[3:38:09 - 3:38:10] ▶
this sort of,
[3:38:10 - 3:38:11] ▶
you know,
[3:38:11 - 3:38:11] ▶
theoretical
[3:38:11 - 3:38:12] ▶
directed energy
[3:38:12 - 3:38:13] ▶
weapon where
[3:38:13 - 3:38:14] ▶
you could take
[3:38:14 - 3:38:15] ▶
anybody out
[3:38:15 - 3:38:15] ▶
remotely in this
[3:38:15 - 3:38:16] ▶
perfectly precise
[3:38:16 - 3:38:17] ▶
way across the
[3:38:17 - 3:38:19] ▶
world.
[3:38:19 - 3:38:19] ▶
I don't know
[3:38:20 - 3:38:20] ▶
if you caught
[3:38:20 - 3:38:21] ▶
this part of
[3:38:21 - 3:38:21] ▶
the age of
[3:38:21 - 3:38:21] ▶
disclosure.
[3:38:21 - 3:38:22] ▶
Eric Davis
[3:38:22 - 3:38:23] ▶
says in 1989,
[3:38:23 - 3:38:24] ▶
we should have
[3:38:24 - 3:38:25] ▶
brought this up
[3:38:25 - 3:38:25] ▶
with him,
[3:38:25 - 3:38:25] ▶
1989,
[3:38:26 - 3:38:26] ▶
the Soviets
[3:38:27 - 3:38:28] ▶
engaged in a
[3:38:28 - 3:38:29] ▶
UFO crash
[3:38:29 - 3:38:30] ▶
retrieval where
[3:38:30 - 3:38:31] ▶
they were able
[3:38:31 - 3:38:32] ▶
to derive a
[3:38:32 - 3:38:33] ▶
directed energy
[3:38:33 - 3:38:34] ▶
weapon from this
[3:38:34 - 3:38:35] ▶
particular craft.
[3:38:35 - 3:38:36] ▶
and that's
[3:38:36 - 3:38:39] ▶
a fascinating
[3:38:39 - 3:38:40] ▶
claim,
[3:38:40 - 3:38:40] ▶
right?
[3:38:40 - 3:38:41] ▶
Like,
[3:38:41 - 3:38:41] ▶
I don't know
[3:38:41 - 3:38:41] ▶
what to make
[3:38:41 - 3:38:42] ▶
of that.
[3:38:42 - 3:38:42] ▶
You know,
[3:38:42 - 3:38:43] ▶
how do you know
[3:38:43 - 3:38:43] ▶
that,
[3:38:43 - 3:38:44] ▶
A?
[3:38:44 - 3:38:44] ▶
B?
[3:38:45 - 3:38:45] ▶
So you are
[3:38:46 - 3:38:47] ▶
saying some
[3:38:47 - 3:38:47] ▶
of this stuff
[3:38:47 - 3:38:48] ▶
is functional
[3:38:48 - 3:38:48] ▶
and it works
[3:38:48 - 3:38:49] ▶
its way into
[3:38:49 - 3:38:50] ▶
weapons that
[3:38:50 - 3:38:51] ▶
we now know,
[3:38:51 - 3:38:52] ▶
you know,
[3:38:52 - 3:38:53] ▶
the Department
[3:38:53 - 3:38:54] ▶
of War are
[3:38:54 - 3:38:54] ▶
scaling up
[3:38:54 - 3:38:55] ▶
publicly.
[3:38:55 - 3:38:56] ▶
And so,
[3:38:57 - 3:38:58] ▶
like,
[3:38:58 - 3:38:58] ▶
this whole idea
[3:38:58 - 3:38:59] ▶
that we haven't
[3:38:59 - 3:38:59] ▶
made any progress
[3:38:59 - 3:39:00] ▶
is actually kind
[3:39:00 - 3:39:01] ▶
of bogus,
[3:39:01 - 3:39:02] ▶
but it's being
[3:39:02 - 3:39:03] ▶
used in these
[3:39:03 - 3:39:04] ▶
extremely dystopian
[3:39:04 - 3:39:05] ▶
ways.
[3:39:05 - 3:39:05] ▶
Okay,
[3:39:06 - 3:39:07] ▶
but let me
[3:39:07 - 3:39:08] ▶
just ask,
[3:39:08 - 3:39:09] ▶
how do we
[3:39:10 - 3:39:11] ▶
reconcile the
[3:39:11 - 3:39:12] ▶
fact that all
[3:39:12 - 3:39:13] ▶
three of us
[3:39:13 - 3:39:13] ▶
have talked to
[3:39:13 - 3:39:14] ▶
so many people,
[3:39:14 - 3:39:15] ▶
which can't all
[3:39:15 - 3:39:18] ▶
be lying about
[3:39:18 - 3:39:19] ▶
what they're
[3:39:19 - 3:39:19] ▶
saying,
[3:39:19 - 3:39:19] ▶
it's just,
[3:39:19 - 3:39:20] ▶
I see no world
[3:39:20 - 3:39:22] ▶
in which that's
[3:39:22 - 3:39:22] ▶
possible.
[3:39:22 - 3:39:23] ▶
and nobody
[3:39:23 - 3:39:26] ▶
has any
[3:39:26 - 3:39:26] ▶
firsthand
[3:39:26 - 3:39:27] ▶
incontrovertible
[3:39:27 - 3:39:31] ▶
stuff that would
[3:39:31 - 3:39:31] ▶
make this a
[3:39:31 - 3:39:32] ▶
done deal.
[3:39:32 - 3:39:33] ▶
It does weirdly
[3:39:33 - 3:39:34] ▶
feel like the
[3:39:34 - 3:39:35] ▶
Epstein thing.
[3:39:35 - 3:39:36] ▶
You know,
[3:39:37 - 3:39:38] ▶
how is it
[3:39:38 - 3:39:38] ▶
that there is
[3:39:38 - 3:39:39] ▶
either a lot
[3:39:39 - 3:39:40] ▶
of people are
[3:39:40 - 3:39:41] ▶
implicated that
[3:39:41 - 3:39:42] ▶
are publicly
[3:39:42 - 3:39:42] ▶
appearing around
[3:39:42 - 3:39:43] ▶
this topic who
[3:39:43 - 3:39:44] ▶
are talking about
[3:39:44 - 3:39:45] ▶
it and they're
[3:39:45 - 3:39:45] ▶
implicated,
[3:39:45 - 3:39:46] ▶
but they don't
[3:39:46 - 3:39:46] ▶
want to say
[3:39:46 - 3:39:46] ▶
they're implicated
[3:39:46 - 3:39:47] ▶
or the tip of
[3:39:47 - 3:39:49] ▶
the iceberg
[3:39:49 - 3:39:50] ▶
doesn't look like
[3:39:50 - 3:39:50] ▶
the rest of
[3:39:50 - 3:39:51] ▶
the iceberg
[3:39:51 - 3:39:51] ▶
and,
[3:39:51 - 3:39:52] ▶
intentional
[3:39:52 - 3:39:53] ▶
vagueness is
[3:39:53 - 3:39:54] ▶
being used
[3:39:54 - 3:39:54] ▶
with words like
[3:39:54 - 3:39:55] ▶
crash retrieval
[3:39:55 - 3:39:56] ▶
and biologics
[3:39:56 - 3:39:58] ▶
and I don't
[3:39:58 - 3:39:59] ▶
err on that
[3:39:59 - 3:40:00] ▶
side of things
[3:40:00 - 3:40:01] ▶
given how,
[3:40:01 - 3:40:01] ▶
just how high
[3:40:02 - 3:40:02] ▶
up the people
[3:40:02 - 3:40:03] ▶
are saying
[3:40:03 - 3:40:04] ▶
this stuff,
[3:40:04 - 3:40:04] ▶
how overwhelming
[3:40:04 - 3:40:05] ▶
the circumstantial
[3:40:05 - 3:40:07] ▶
evidence seems
[3:40:07 - 3:40:07] ▶
to be.
[3:40:07 - 3:40:08] ▶
It's overwhelming.
[3:40:08 - 3:40:09] ▶
But you have
[3:40:10 - 3:40:11] ▶
to think
[3:40:11 - 3:40:11] ▶
probabilistically
[3:40:11 - 3:40:12] ▶
and I,
[3:40:12 - 3:40:12] ▶
you know,
[3:40:13 - 3:40:13] ▶
I always try
[3:40:13 - 3:40:13] ▶
to,
[3:40:13 - 3:40:14] ▶
you know,
[3:40:14 - 3:40:14] ▶
put a healthy
[3:40:15 - 3:40:16] ▶
check on
[3:40:16 - 3:40:16] ▶
people who
[3:40:16 - 3:40:17] ▶
are hardcore
[3:40:17 - 3:40:18] ▶
in UFO world
[3:40:18 - 3:40:18] ▶
who are sure
[3:40:18 - 3:40:19] ▶
about discrete,
[3:40:19 - 3:40:21] ▶
you know,
[3:40:21 - 3:40:22] ▶
org charts
[3:40:22 - 3:40:23] ▶
in the reverse
[3:40:23 - 3:40:23] ▶
engineering problem.
[3:40:23 - 3:40:24] ▶
I'm like,
[3:40:24 - 3:40:24] ▶
how can you be
[3:40:24 - 3:40:25] ▶
sure of anything?
[3:40:25 - 3:40:26] ▶
You know,
[3:40:26 - 3:40:26] ▶
I think you have
[3:40:26 - 3:40:27] ▶
to think
[3:40:27 - 3:40:28] ▶
probabilistically
[3:40:28 - 3:40:29] ▶
about all this stuff.
[3:40:29 - 3:40:30] ▶
This is not
[3:40:30 - 3:40:30] ▶
the most imaginative
[3:40:30 - 3:40:31] ▶
solution,
[3:40:31 - 3:40:32] ▶
but another alternative
[3:40:32 - 3:40:33] ▶
to reconcile
[3:40:33 - 3:40:34] ▶
that fact
[3:40:34 - 3:40:34] ▶
is that some
[3:40:34 - 3:40:35] ▶
of them are lying
[3:40:35 - 3:40:36] ▶
and they are
[3:40:36 - 3:40:36] ▶
firsthand.
[3:40:36 - 3:40:37] ▶
Well,
[3:40:37 - 3:40:37] ▶
that's what I was
[3:40:37 - 3:40:37] ▶
just saying.
[3:40:37 - 3:40:38] ▶
Because that's
[3:40:38 - 3:40:38] ▶
the red line,
[3:40:38 - 3:40:39] ▶
maybe.
[3:40:39 - 3:40:39] ▶
I think they're
[3:40:39 - 3:40:40] ▶
telling stories
[3:40:40 - 3:40:41] ▶
that are like
[3:40:41 - 3:40:42] ▶
more than one
[3:40:42 - 3:40:43] ▶
about what could
[3:40:43 - 3:40:45] ▶
be going on
[3:40:45 - 3:40:46] ▶
so that we don't,
[3:40:46 - 3:40:47] ▶
yeah,
[3:40:47 - 3:40:47] ▶
let's do it.
[3:40:47 - 3:40:47] ▶
so that we don't
[3:40:47 - 3:40:48] ▶
get committed
[3:40:48 - 3:40:49] ▶
to one.
[3:40:49 - 3:40:49] ▶
Yeah.
[3:40:49 - 3:40:50] ▶
Excellent idea.
[3:40:50 - 3:40:50] ▶
So I think
[3:40:50 - 3:40:52] ▶
the taking
[3:40:52 - 3:40:53] ▶
everything at
[3:40:53 - 3:40:54] ▶
face value story
[3:40:54 - 3:40:55] ▶
is that there
[3:40:55 - 3:40:56] ▶
is this
[3:40:56 - 3:40:57] ▶
decades long
[3:40:57 - 3:40:59] ▶
UFO crash
[3:40:59 - 3:41:00] ▶
retrieval
[3:41:00 - 3:41:00] ▶
and reverse
[3:41:00 - 3:41:01] ▶
engineering program.
[3:41:01 - 3:41:02] ▶
It probably
[3:41:02 - 3:41:03] ▶
existed prior
[3:41:03 - 3:41:04] ▶
to 1933,
[3:41:04 - 3:41:05] ▶
but it became
[3:41:05 - 3:41:06] ▶
formally instantiated
[3:41:06 - 3:41:07] ▶
in the 33
[3:41:07 - 3:41:08] ▶
Magenta crash
[3:41:08 - 3:41:09] ▶
in Italy.
[3:41:09 - 3:41:10] ▶
This is all
[3:41:10 - 3:41:10] ▶
hypothetical.
[3:41:10 - 3:41:11] ▶
In the Magenta
[3:41:12 - 3:41:12] ▶
crash in Italy,
[3:41:12 - 3:41:13] ▶
and then that
[3:41:13 - 3:41:14] ▶
was transferred
[3:41:14 - 3:41:14] ▶
to the U.S.
[3:41:14 - 3:41:15] ▶
under FDR.
[3:41:15 - 3:41:16] ▶
You had
[3:41:16 - 3:41:17] ▶
Roswell in 47.
[3:41:17 - 3:41:18] ▶
You had
[3:41:19 - 3:41:19] ▶
Trinity in 48.
[3:41:19 - 3:41:20] ▶
You have
[3:41:20 - 3:41:20] ▶
these sort
[3:41:20 - 3:41:21] ▶
of sequential
[3:41:21 - 3:41:22] ▶
nuclear-related
[3:41:22 - 3:41:25] ▶
UFO crashes.
[3:41:25 - 3:41:26] ▶
You have the
[3:41:26 - 3:41:26] ▶
Office of Global
[3:41:26 - 3:41:27] ▶
Access under
[3:41:27 - 3:41:28] ▶
the CIA
[3:41:28 - 3:41:28] ▶
in the early
[3:41:28 - 3:41:29] ▶
2000s under
[3:41:29 - 3:41:30] ▶
Doug Wolf
[3:41:30 - 3:41:31] ▶
doing rapid
[3:41:31 - 3:41:32] ▶
response,
[3:41:32 - 3:41:32] ▶
you know,
[3:41:32 - 3:41:33] ▶
retrievals all
[3:41:33 - 3:41:34] ▶
over the world.
[3:41:34 - 3:41:35] ▶
And this
[3:41:36 - 3:41:37] ▶
kind of
[3:41:37 - 3:41:38] ▶
convoluted
[3:41:38 - 3:41:39] ▶
org chart
[3:41:39 - 3:41:39] ▶
structure where
[3:41:39 - 3:41:40] ▶
the Lockheeds
[3:41:40 - 3:41:41] ▶
and Northropes
[3:41:41 - 3:41:42] ▶
are the
[3:41:42 - 3:41:42] ▶
tip of the
[3:41:43 - 3:41:44] ▶
kind of
[3:41:44 - 3:41:44] ▶
the fingertips
[3:41:44 - 3:41:45] ▶
and,
[3:41:45 - 3:41:46] ▶
you know,
[3:41:46 - 3:41:47] ▶
CIA,
[3:41:47 - 3:41:48] ▶
you know,
[3:41:48 - 3:41:49] ▶
science and
[3:41:49 - 3:41:50] ▶
technology and
[3:41:50 - 3:41:52] ▶
DOE and,
[3:41:52 - 3:41:54] ▶
you know,
[3:41:54 - 3:41:55] ▶
DOD are
[3:41:55 - 3:41:56] ▶
kind of at
[3:41:56 - 3:41:56] ▶
the top.
[3:41:56 - 3:41:57] ▶
And so you
[3:41:57 - 3:41:58] ▶
could have
[3:41:58 - 3:41:59] ▶
that entire
[3:41:59 - 3:41:59] ▶
narrative and
[3:41:59 - 3:42:00] ▶
just take that
[3:42:00 - 3:42:00] ▶
at face value.
[3:42:00 - 3:42:01] ▶
I think another
[3:42:02 - 3:42:02] ▶
possibility would
[3:42:02 - 3:42:04] ▶
be something
[3:42:04 - 3:42:05] ▶
like aerial
[3:42:05 - 3:42:08] ▶
phenomena show
[3:42:08 - 3:42:09] ▶
up around
[3:42:09 - 3:42:10] ▶
nuclear weapons
[3:42:10 - 3:42:11] ▶
and energy
[3:42:11 - 3:42:12] ▶
grids.
[3:42:12 - 3:42:13] ▶
And that
[3:42:13 - 3:42:13] ▶
is this
[3:42:13 - 3:42:14] ▶
clear pattern.
[3:42:14 - 3:42:15] ▶
It's global.
[3:42:15 - 3:42:15] ▶
It's ubiquitous.
[3:42:15 - 3:42:16] ▶
It exists in
[3:42:16 - 3:42:17] ▶
the U.S.,
[3:42:17 - 3:42:18] ▶
but it also
[3:42:18 - 3:42:18] ▶
exists totally
[3:42:18 - 3:42:19] ▶
outside the
[3:42:19 - 3:42:19] ▶
U.S.
[3:42:19 - 3:42:20] ▶
Those
[3:42:22 - 3:42:22] ▶
aerial phenomena
[3:42:22 - 3:42:24] ▶
also seem to be
[3:42:24 - 3:42:24] ▶
provoked by
[3:42:24 - 3:42:26] ▶
weird high-energy
[3:42:26 - 3:42:27] ▶
physics experiments.
[3:42:27 - 3:42:28] ▶
So lasers,
[3:42:29 - 3:42:31] ▶
high-energy
[3:42:31 - 3:42:31] ▶
lasers,
[3:42:31 - 3:42:32] ▶
you know,
[3:42:33 - 3:42:33] ▶
high-voltage
[3:42:33 - 3:42:34] ▶
experimentation,
[3:42:34 - 3:42:35] ▶
particle
[3:42:35 - 3:42:36] ▶
accelerators,
[3:42:36 - 3:42:36] ▶
things of that
[3:42:37 - 3:42:37] ▶
nature seem to
[3:42:37 - 3:42:38] ▶
attract this weird
[3:42:38 - 3:42:39] ▶
aerial phenomena.
[3:42:39 - 3:42:40] ▶
phenomena.
[3:42:40 - 3:42:40] ▶
We don't really
[3:42:40 - 3:42:41] ▶
know what the
[3:42:41 - 3:42:42] ▶
aerial phenomena
[3:42:42 - 3:42:42] ▶
is.
[3:42:42 - 3:42:43] ▶
We actually
[3:42:43 - 3:42:44] ▶
have some
[3:42:44 - 3:42:46] ▶
prosaic,
[3:42:46 - 3:42:47] ▶
you know,
[3:42:47 - 3:42:47] ▶
human,
[3:42:48 - 3:42:48] ▶
terrestrial
[3:42:49 - 3:42:49] ▶
physics
[3:42:49 - 3:42:50] ▶
breakthroughs
[3:42:50 - 3:42:50] ▶
that have
[3:42:50 - 3:42:51] ▶
led to
[3:42:51 - 3:42:51] ▶
novel propulsion
[3:42:51 - 3:42:52] ▶
modalities
[3:42:52 - 3:42:53] ▶
from some of
[3:42:53 - 3:42:55] ▶
these kind of,
[3:42:55 - 3:42:55] ▶
you know,
[3:42:56 - 3:42:56] ▶
topological physics
[3:42:56 - 3:42:57] ▶
anomalies that we
[3:42:57 - 3:42:58] ▶
figured out mid-century,
[3:42:58 - 3:42:59] ▶
and we actually do
[3:42:59 - 3:43:00] ▶
have propulsion based
[3:43:00 - 3:43:01] ▶
on them.
[3:43:01 - 3:43:02] ▶
So we have,
[3:43:02 - 3:43:03] ▶
you know,
[3:43:03 - 3:43:04] ▶
real craft that
[3:43:04 - 3:43:06] ▶
seem like they
[3:43:06 - 3:43:06] ▶
fly like UFOs,
[3:43:06 - 3:43:08] ▶
but we're running
[3:43:08 - 3:43:08] ▶
this tech protection
[3:43:08 - 3:43:09] ▶
thing by intentionally
[3:43:09 - 3:43:11] ▶
conflating this
[3:43:11 - 3:43:12] ▶
aerial phenomena
[3:43:12 - 3:43:12] ▶
that is very,
[3:43:12 - 3:43:13] ▶
you know,
[3:43:13 - 3:43:14] ▶
bizarre and worthy
[3:43:15 - 3:43:16] ▶
of scientific inquiry,
[3:43:16 - 3:43:17] ▶
but we just don't
[3:43:17 - 3:43:17] ▶
understand.
[3:43:17 - 3:43:18] ▶
We are conflating
[3:43:18 - 3:43:19] ▶
that with just
[3:43:19 - 3:43:21] ▶
this,
[3:43:21 - 3:43:21] ▶
you know,
[3:43:21 - 3:43:22] ▶
kind of more
[3:43:22 - 3:43:22] ▶
exotic,
[3:43:22 - 3:43:23] ▶
black,
[3:43:24 - 3:43:24] ▶
you know,
[3:43:25 - 3:43:26] ▶
not reverse
[3:43:26 - 3:43:27] ▶
engineering program,
[3:43:27 - 3:43:28] ▶
but craft
[3:43:28 - 3:43:30] ▶
program that is,
[3:43:30 - 3:43:31] ▶
that is human craft.
[3:43:31 - 3:43:32] ▶
So that would be
[3:43:32 - 3:43:33] ▶
number two.
[3:43:33 - 3:43:34] ▶
And then number
[3:43:34 - 3:43:35] ▶
three is like
[3:43:35 - 3:43:36] ▶
Mick West territory
[3:43:36 - 3:43:37] ▶
or something
[3:43:37 - 3:43:37] ▶
where it's like,
[3:43:37 - 3:43:38] ▶
you know,
[3:43:39 - 3:43:39] ▶
there is no aerial
[3:43:40 - 3:43:40] ▶
phenomena around
[3:43:40 - 3:43:41] ▶
nuclear sites,
[3:43:41 - 3:43:42] ▶
you know,
[3:43:42 - 3:43:42] ▶
there are no
[3:43:42 - 3:43:43] ▶
anomalies there,
[3:43:43 - 3:43:44] ▶
all the topological
[3:43:44 - 3:43:45] ▶
physics,
[3:43:45 - 3:43:46] ▶
you know,
[3:43:46 - 3:43:46] ▶
Byfield Brown,
[3:43:46 - 3:43:47] ▶
Ning Li stuff
[3:43:47 - 3:43:48] ▶
is all BS,
[3:43:48 - 3:43:49] ▶
you know,
[3:43:50 - 3:43:51] ▶
all,
[3:43:51 - 3:43:52] ▶
you know,
[3:43:52 - 3:43:52] ▶
conventional physics
[3:43:52 - 3:43:53] ▶
models,
[3:43:53 - 3:43:53] ▶
you know,
[3:43:54 - 3:43:54] ▶
are going to run
[3:43:54 - 3:43:55] ▶
the world for
[3:43:55 - 3:43:56] ▶
forever.
[3:43:56 - 3:43:57] ▶
And,
[3:43:57 - 3:43:58] ▶
you know,
[3:43:58 - 3:43:58] ▶
this is all a
[3:43:58 - 3:43:59] ▶
psyop.
[3:43:59 - 3:44:00] ▶
Like,
[3:44:00 - 3:44:00] ▶
it's literally all
[3:44:00 - 3:44:01] ▶
like,
[3:44:01 - 3:44:01] ▶
you know,
[3:44:01 - 3:44:02] ▶
this crazy sort
[3:44:02 - 3:44:03] ▶
of,
[3:44:03 - 3:44:04] ▶
you know,
[3:44:04 - 3:44:04] ▶
government lunacy
[3:44:05 - 3:44:06] ▶
thing.
[3:44:06 - 3:44:06] ▶
I don't know.
[3:44:06 - 3:44:06] ▶
Would you guys say
[3:44:06 - 3:44:07] ▶
there's an option
[3:44:07 - 3:44:07] ▶
four or five
[3:44:07 - 3:44:08] ▶
that you'd like to add?
[3:44:08 - 3:44:09] ▶
Hard to say.
[3:44:10 - 3:44:10] ▶
So one possibility
[3:44:11 - 3:44:12] ▶
is let's imagine,
[3:44:12 - 3:44:13] ▶
let's imagine
[3:44:14 - 3:44:15] ▶
that
[3:44:15 - 3:44:16] ▶
the atomic weapons
[3:44:16 - 3:44:19] ▶
were not developed
[3:44:19 - 3:44:21] ▶
during war,
[3:44:21 - 3:44:21] ▶
but during peacetime
[3:44:22 - 3:44:23] ▶
inside of a national
[3:44:23 - 3:44:24] ▶
lab.
[3:44:24 - 3:44:24] ▶
There'd be a question
[3:44:26 - 3:44:27] ▶
about,
[3:44:27 - 3:44:27] ▶
should we reveal
[3:44:27 - 3:44:28] ▶
that this is possible?
[3:44:28 - 3:44:30] ▶
right?
[3:44:31 - 3:44:33] ▶
There'd be a huge
[3:44:33 - 3:44:34] ▶
debate as to
[3:44:34 - 3:44:35] ▶
how to do work
[3:44:35 - 3:44:37] ▶
on this thing
[3:44:37 - 3:44:38] ▶
and whether we
[3:44:38 - 3:44:43] ▶
should reveal it
[3:44:43 - 3:44:44] ▶
to the world
[3:44:44 - 3:44:44] ▶
or should reserve
[3:44:44 - 3:44:45] ▶
it as a zero-day
[3:44:45 - 3:44:46] ▶
exploit.
[3:44:46 - 3:44:46] ▶
So that would be
[3:44:49 - 3:44:50] ▶
option four?
[3:44:50 - 3:44:51] ▶
I guess,
[3:44:51 - 3:44:52] ▶
new taxonomy.
[3:44:52 - 3:44:53] ▶
Is that option
[3:44:53 - 3:44:56] ▶
agnostic of where
[3:44:56 - 3:44:57] ▶
the technology
[3:44:57 - 3:44:58] ▶
came from?
[3:44:58 - 3:44:58] ▶
Well,
[3:44:59 - 3:44:59] ▶
so imagine,
[3:45:00 - 3:45:01] ▶
for example,
[3:45:01 - 3:45:01] ▶
that the government
[3:45:01 - 3:45:02] ▶
figured out something
[3:45:02 - 3:45:03] ▶
in physics
[3:45:03 - 3:45:04] ▶
that isn't
[3:45:04 - 3:45:06] ▶
the whole thing,
[3:45:06 - 3:45:07] ▶
but it's powerful
[3:45:07 - 3:45:08] ▶
enough to do
[3:45:08 - 3:45:09] ▶
one or two things
[3:45:09 - 3:45:10] ▶
that haven't been
[3:45:10 - 3:45:10] ▶
done before
[3:45:10 - 3:45:11] ▶
and we wanted
[3:45:11 - 3:45:12] ▶
that in reserve.
[3:45:12 - 3:45:13] ▶
You can imagine
[3:45:14 - 3:45:15] ▶
that the entire system
[3:45:15 - 3:45:17] ▶
would say,
[3:45:17 - 3:45:17] ▶
would you please
[3:45:17 - 3:45:18] ▶
stop digging?
[3:45:18 - 3:45:18] ▶
We want to keep
[3:45:18 - 3:45:19] ▶
the zero-day exploit.
[3:45:19 - 3:45:20] ▶
It's a matter
[3:45:20 - 3:45:21] ▶
of national security.
[3:45:21 - 3:45:23] ▶
Don't make us
[3:45:23 - 3:45:24] ▶
reveal this.
[3:45:24 - 3:45:24] ▶
That thing,
[3:45:25 - 3:45:26] ▶
though,
[3:45:26 - 3:45:26] ▶
would need to
[3:45:26 - 3:45:27] ▶
be neatly adjacent
[3:45:27 - 3:45:29] ▶
to UFO crash
[3:45:29 - 3:45:30] ▶
retrievals.
[3:45:30 - 3:45:31] ▶
They would need
[3:45:31 - 3:45:31] ▶
to intersect.
[3:45:31 - 3:45:32] ▶
I don't want to
[3:45:32 - 3:45:32] ▶
talk about crash
[3:45:32 - 3:45:33] ▶
retrievals
[3:45:33 - 3:45:33] ▶
until I've been
[3:45:33 - 3:45:34] ▶
to one.
[3:45:34 - 3:45:35] ▶
But you know
[3:45:35 - 3:45:36] ▶
what I'm saying.
[3:45:36 - 3:45:36] ▶
No,
[3:45:36 - 3:45:37] ▶
I don't know
[3:45:37 - 3:45:37] ▶
what a crash
[3:45:37 - 3:45:38] ▶
retrieval is.
[3:45:38 - 3:45:39] ▶
What I'm saying
[3:45:39 - 3:45:40] ▶
is if that's
[3:45:40 - 3:45:40] ▶
being used
[3:45:40 - 3:45:41] ▶
as passage material
[3:45:41 - 3:45:42] ▶
for some other
[3:45:42 - 3:45:43] ▶
secret weapons
[3:45:43 - 3:45:43] ▶
program,
[3:45:43 - 3:45:44] ▶
the two probably
[3:45:44 - 3:45:46] ▶
need to surface
[3:45:46 - 3:45:47] ▶
level lookalike
[3:45:47 - 3:45:48] ▶
somewhat for that
[3:45:48 - 3:45:49] ▶
to be an effective
[3:45:49 - 3:45:50] ▶
cover.
[3:45:50 - 3:45:50] ▶
So that's
[3:45:51 - 3:45:52] ▶
the thing,
[3:45:52 - 3:45:53] ▶
right?
[3:45:53 - 3:45:53] ▶
So you remember
[3:45:56 - 3:45:57] ▶
when we attacked
[3:45:57 - 3:45:58] ▶
Iran,
[3:45:58 - 3:45:58] ▶
we sent one
[3:45:58 - 3:45:59] ▶
squadron of
[3:45:59 - 3:46:00] ▶
B-2 bombers
[3:46:00 - 3:46:01] ▶
in one direction,
[3:46:01 - 3:46:02] ▶
one another?
[3:46:02 - 3:46:02] ▶
That was my
[3:46:03 - 3:46:03] ▶
principle,
[3:46:03 - 3:46:05] ▶
an example of
[3:46:05 - 3:46:06] ▶
whenever we do
[3:46:06 - 3:46:06] ▶
something cool,
[3:46:06 - 3:46:07] ▶
we do something
[3:46:07 - 3:46:08] ▶
fake.
[3:46:08 - 3:46:08] ▶
So invasion
[3:46:09 - 3:46:11] ▶
of the
[3:46:11 - 3:46:11] ▶
Operation Overlord
[3:46:11 - 3:46:13] ▶
D-Day
[3:46:13 - 3:46:14] ▶
and the
[3:46:14 - 3:46:15] ▶
beaches of
[3:46:15 - 3:46:15] ▶
Normandy
[3:46:15 - 3:46:16] ▶
was cool
[3:46:16 - 3:46:16] ▶
and Operation
[3:46:16 - 3:46:18] ▶
Bodyguard
[3:46:18 - 3:46:19] ▶
and Fortitude
[3:46:19 - 3:46:19] ▶
were fake
[3:46:19 - 3:46:20] ▶
because we
[3:46:20 - 3:46:20] ▶
never actually
[3:46:20 - 3:46:21] ▶
invaded Norway
[3:46:21 - 3:46:22] ▶
as we said
[3:46:22 - 3:46:23] ▶
we were going
[3:46:23 - 3:46:23] ▶
to do.
[3:46:23 - 3:46:24] ▶
This could
[3:46:27 - 3:46:28] ▶
be the fake
[3:46:28 - 3:46:28] ▶
program to
[3:46:28 - 3:46:29] ▶
something super
[3:46:29 - 3:46:29] ▶
cool.
[3:46:29 - 3:46:30] ▶
And another
[3:46:32 - 3:46:34] ▶
aspect of this,
[3:46:34 - 3:46:35] ▶
if we're going
[3:46:35 - 3:46:36] ▶
to just talk
[3:46:36 - 3:46:36] ▶
about crazy
[3:46:36 - 3:46:36] ▶
stupid theories,
[3:46:36 - 3:46:37] ▶
is there's a
[3:46:37 - 3:46:38] ▶
strategy with,
[3:46:38 - 3:46:41] ▶
I think,
[3:46:41 - 3:46:41] ▶
like malarial
[3:46:42 - 3:46:42] ▶
mosquitoes
[3:46:42 - 3:46:43] ▶
where you
[3:46:43 - 3:46:45] ▶
release a bunch
[3:46:45 - 3:46:45] ▶
of sterilized
[3:46:45 - 3:46:46] ▶
males into
[3:46:46 - 3:46:48] ▶
the world.
[3:46:48 - 3:46:49] ▶
And sterilized
[3:46:50 - 3:46:50] ▶
males effectively
[3:46:50 - 3:46:51] ▶
mate with the
[3:46:51 - 3:46:52] ▶
females but
[3:46:52 - 3:46:53] ▶
leave no
[3:46:53 - 3:46:54] ▶
offspring.
[3:46:54 - 3:46:54] ▶
And it's a
[3:46:56 - 3:46:57] ▶
way of
[3:46:57 - 3:46:58] ▶
controlling
[3:46:58 - 3:46:59] ▶
mosquitoes.
[3:46:59 - 3:46:59] ▶
One possibility
[3:47:00 - 3:47:01] ▶
is that one of
[3:47:01 - 3:47:02] ▶
the reasons we
[3:47:02 - 3:47:02] ▶
kicked all of
[3:47:02 - 3:47:03] ▶
the Americans
[3:47:03 - 3:47:04] ▶
out of our
[3:47:04 - 3:47:04] ▶
physics programs
[3:47:04 - 3:47:05] ▶
and science
[3:47:05 - 3:47:06] ▶
programs is
[3:47:06 - 3:47:08] ▶
that we wanted
[3:47:08 - 3:47:08] ▶
to sterilize
[3:47:08 - 3:47:09] ▶
the world so
[3:47:09 - 3:47:11] ▶
that it didn't
[3:47:11 - 3:47:11] ▶
catch up to
[3:47:11 - 3:47:12] ▶
us what we'd
[3:47:12 - 3:47:12] ▶
already done.
[3:47:12 - 3:47:13] ▶
It's a crazy
[3:47:14 - 3:47:15] ▶
idea.
[3:47:15 - 3:47:15] ▶
But why else
[3:47:16 - 3:47:16] ▶
should you be
[3:47:16 - 3:47:17] ▶
having 27%
[3:47:17 - 3:47:19] ▶
of your PhDs
[3:47:19 - 3:47:21] ▶
granted to
[3:47:21 - 3:47:22] ▶
Chinese nationals
[3:47:22 - 3:47:23] ▶
in sensitive
[3:47:23 - 3:47:25] ▶
areas?
[3:47:25 - 3:47:26] ▶
It just doesn't
[3:47:26 - 3:47:26] ▶
make any sense.
[3:47:26 - 3:47:27] ▶
So one possibility
[3:47:27 - 3:47:28] ▶
is that we use
[3:47:28 - 3:47:28] ▶
string theory to
[3:47:28 - 3:47:30] ▶
sterilize India.
[3:47:30 - 3:47:31] ▶
Let's say there
[3:47:31 - 3:47:31] ▶
are lots of
[3:47:31 - 3:47:32] ▶
Indian string
[3:47:32 - 3:47:32] ▶
theorists and
[3:47:32 - 3:47:33] ▶
they're not making
[3:47:33 - 3:47:34] ▶
any progress and
[3:47:34 - 3:47:34] ▶
they're extremely
[3:47:34 - 3:47:35] ▶
arrogant about
[3:47:35 - 3:47:36] ▶
string theory.
[3:47:36 - 3:47:37] ▶
these are crazy
[3:47:37 - 3:47:40] ▶
ideas.
[3:47:40 - 3:47:41] ▶
Another possibility
[3:47:41 - 3:47:42] ▶
is somebody once
[3:47:42 - 3:47:43] ▶
said to me
[3:47:43 - 3:47:44] ▶
relatively recently,
[3:47:44 - 3:47:47] ▶
you know,
[3:47:48 - 3:47:49] ▶
Eric, you don't
[3:47:49 - 3:47:49] ▶
need to rely on
[3:47:49 - 3:47:50] ▶
the government.
[3:47:50 - 3:47:51] ▶
You can just go
[3:47:51 - 3:47:51] ▶
up and look for
[3:47:51 - 3:47:52] ▶
yourself.
[3:47:52 - 3:47:52] ▶
The key idea
[3:47:53 - 3:47:54] ▶
being that you
[3:47:54 - 3:47:55] ▶
just need to get
[3:47:55 - 3:47:55] ▶
adjacent to
[3:47:55 - 3:47:56] ▶
sensitive places
[3:47:56 - 3:47:57] ▶
and you'll see
[3:47:57 - 3:47:58] ▶
these things
[3:47:58 - 3:47:58] ▶
everywhere.
[3:47:58 - 3:47:59] ▶
Like this isn't
[3:48:00 - 3:48:01] ▶
that big of a
[3:48:01 - 3:48:02] ▶
deal.
[3:48:02 - 3:48:02] ▶
They're always
[3:48:02 - 3:48:03] ▶
there.
[3:48:03 - 3:48:03] ▶
Well,
[3:48:03 - 3:48:04] ▶
that's what I
[3:48:04 - 3:48:05] ▶
always find so
[3:48:05 - 3:48:07] ▶
frustrating is for
[3:48:07 - 3:48:09] ▶
the, you know,
[3:48:09 - 3:48:09] ▶
the Mick West
[3:48:09 - 3:48:10] ▶
option, the
[3:48:10 - 3:48:10] ▶
Mick West
[3:48:10 - 3:48:11] ▶
scenario, the
[3:48:11 - 3:48:12] ▶
super skeptic
[3:48:12 - 3:48:12] ▶
thing.
[3:48:12 - 3:48:13] ▶
You spend like a
[3:48:14 - 3:48:15] ▶
few days on this
[3:48:15 - 3:48:16] ▶
or literally like
[3:48:16 - 3:48:17] ▶
you probably walk
[3:48:17 - 3:48:18] ▶
around one of
[3:48:18 - 3:48:19] ▶
these sites or
[3:48:19 - 3:48:19] ▶
something.
[3:48:19 - 3:48:20] ▶
You go to the
[3:48:20 - 3:48:20] ▶
bar near one of
[3:48:20 - 3:48:21] ▶
them.
[3:48:21 - 3:48:22] ▶
Something's going
[3:48:22 - 3:48:23] ▶
on.
[3:48:23 - 3:48:24] ▶
The amount of
[3:48:24 - 3:48:24] ▶
smoke without
[3:48:24 - 3:48:26] ▶
fire is insane.
[3:48:26 - 3:48:27] ▶
No, no, no.
[3:48:27 - 3:48:28] ▶
The question is
[3:48:28 - 3:48:29] ▶
when you see smoke
[3:48:29 - 3:48:30] ▶
at this level,
[3:48:30 - 3:48:30] ▶
the question is
[3:48:31 - 3:48:31] ▶
what is the
[3:48:31 - 3:48:31] ▶
nature of the
[3:48:31 - 3:48:32] ▶
fire?
[3:48:32 - 3:48:32] ▶
There are
[3:48:32 - 3:48:33] ▶
different fires
[3:48:33 - 3:48:34] ▶
or there's a
[3:48:34 - 3:48:35] ▶
smoke machine.
[3:48:35 - 3:48:35] ▶
Or there's a
[3:48:36 - 3:48:36] ▶
smoke machine.
[3:48:36 - 3:48:37] ▶
Right, right.
[3:48:37 - 3:48:37] ▶
Like in other
[3:48:37 - 3:48:38] ▶
words.
[3:48:38 - 3:48:38] ▶
Or there's a
[3:48:39 - 3:48:39] ▶
really good spoofing
[3:48:39 - 3:48:40] ▶
technology that
[3:48:40 - 3:48:42] ▶
we're all not
[3:48:42 - 3:48:42] ▶
aware of or
[3:48:42 - 3:48:43] ▶
something.
[3:48:43 - 3:48:43] ▶
Well, exactly.
[3:48:43 - 3:48:44] ▶
And so, you
[3:48:44 - 3:48:45] ▶
know, my feeling
[3:48:45 - 3:48:46] ▶
unfortunately is
[3:48:46 - 3:48:47] ▶
that the UFO
[3:48:47 - 3:48:48] ▶
world is so
[3:48:48 - 3:48:49] ▶
polluted that I
[3:48:49 - 3:48:52] ▶
just don't want to
[3:48:52 - 3:48:52] ▶
deal with it at
[3:48:52 - 3:48:53] ▶
all.
[3:48:53 - 3:48:53] ▶
Sure.
[3:48:53 - 3:48:54] ▶
Um,
[3:48:54 - 3:48:54] ▶
look, I
[3:48:55 - 3:49:00] ▶
believe we can
[3:49:00 - 3:49:01] ▶
leave.
[3:49:01 - 3:49:01] ▶
And if you
[3:49:02 - 3:49:03] ▶
believe you can
[3:49:03 - 3:49:04] ▶
leave, you
[3:49:04 - 3:49:06] ▶
have to imagine
[3:49:06 - 3:49:06] ▶
that you're
[3:49:06 - 3:49:07] ▶
being visited.
[3:49:07 - 3:49:07] ▶
So it
[3:49:10 - 3:49:12] ▶
makes sense for
[3:49:12 - 3:49:13] ▶
me that I'm
[3:49:13 - 3:49:13] ▶
being visited.
[3:49:13 - 3:49:14] ▶
I can't
[3:49:15 - 3:49:16] ▶
understand why
[3:49:16 - 3:49:17] ▶
they keep
[3:49:17 - 3:49:17] ▶
interacting with
[3:49:17 - 3:49:18] ▶
governments and
[3:49:18 - 3:49:19] ▶
nobody can get
[3:49:19 - 3:49:20] ▶
good footage and
[3:49:20 - 3:49:21] ▶
we don't have
[3:49:21 - 3:49:22] ▶
more.
[3:49:22 - 3:49:23] ▶
But on the
[3:49:24 - 3:49:25] ▶
other hand, I
[3:49:25 - 3:49:26] ▶
would have to
[3:49:26 - 3:49:26] ▶
say that the
[3:49:26 - 3:49:27] ▶
Epstein story was
[3:49:27 - 3:49:28] ▶
pretty contained.
[3:49:28 - 3:49:31] ▶
And you were
[3:49:33 - 3:49:33] ▶
seen as a
[3:49:33 - 3:49:34] ▶
little kind of
[3:49:34 - 3:49:35] ▶
crazy.
[3:49:35 - 3:49:35] ▶
If you created a
[3:49:35 - 3:49:37] ▶
worldview out of
[3:49:37 - 3:49:38] ▶
the Epstein, like
[3:49:38 - 3:49:39] ▶
the, the, the, the,
[3:49:39 - 3:49:40] ▶
the Pizzagate people
[3:49:40 - 3:49:41] ▶
seemed ridiculous four
[3:49:41 - 3:49:44] ▶
or five years ago.
[3:49:44 - 3:49:45] ▶
No, no, no,
[3:49:45 - 3:49:45] ▶
they didn't.
[3:49:45 - 3:49:46] ▶
Pizzagate looked to
[3:49:48 - 3:49:51] ▶
me like an
[3:49:51 - 3:49:52] ▶
amalgam, something
[3:49:52 - 3:49:55] ▶
real, something
[3:49:55 - 3:49:57] ▶
fake.
[3:49:57 - 3:49:57] ▶
Like for
[3:49:58 - 3:49:59] ▶
example, the
[3:49:59 - 3:49:59] ▶
particular pizza
[3:49:59 - 3:50:00] ▶
parlor and the
[3:50:00 - 3:50:03] ▶
guy who shot up
[3:50:03 - 3:50:03] ▶
the roof and all
[3:50:03 - 3:50:04] ▶
that, you know,
[3:50:04 - 3:50:05] ▶
it was perfect.
[3:50:05 - 3:50:06] ▶
Don't be like the
[3:50:06 - 3:50:07] ▶
guy who brings a
[3:50:07 - 3:50:08] ▶
gun into a pizza
[3:50:08 - 3:50:09] ▶
parlor and shoots
[3:50:09 - 3:50:10] ▶
the roof thinking
[3:50:10 - 3:50:10] ▶
that he's tracking
[3:50:10 - 3:50:12] ▶
pedophiles.
[3:50:12 - 3:50:12] ▶
Also, what does
[3:50:14 - 3:50:15] ▶
it really mean
[3:50:15 - 3:50:15] ▶
pedophile?
[3:50:15 - 3:50:16] ▶
Like do, do we
[3:50:16 - 3:50:17] ▶
even think about
[3:50:17 - 3:50:17] ▶
this?
[3:50:17 - 3:50:18] ▶
Is there such a
[3:50:18 - 3:50:19] ▶
clamoring to do
[3:50:19 - 3:50:20] ▶
horrible things to
[3:50:20 - 3:50:21] ▶
children and that
[3:50:21 - 3:50:22] ▶
these people are
[3:50:22 - 3:50:22] ▶
natural leaders of
[3:50:22 - 3:50:24] ▶
the world?
[3:50:24 - 3:50:25] ▶
Well, now we're
[3:50:26 - 3:50:26] ▶
getting into
[3:50:26 - 3:50:27] ▶
weird territory
[3:50:27 - 3:50:27] ▶
because not only
[3:50:27 - 3:50:30] ▶
was pedophilia,
[3:50:30 - 3:50:32] ▶
which alone is
[3:50:32 - 3:50:33] ▶
just disgusting,
[3:50:33 - 3:50:35] ▶
discussed in the
[3:50:35 - 3:50:37] ▶
context of Epstein,
[3:50:37 - 3:50:38] ▶
but like weird,
[3:50:38 - 3:50:40] ▶
like conditioning
[3:50:40 - 3:50:41] ▶
rituals and things
[3:50:41 - 3:50:44] ▶
to like dissociate.
[3:50:44 - 3:50:45] ▶
This isn't weird
[3:50:45 - 3:50:46] ▶
at all.
[3:50:46 - 3:50:46] ▶
This is normal.
[3:50:47 - 3:50:48] ▶
You see,
[3:50:49 - 3:50:49] ▶
it used to be that
[3:50:49 - 3:50:56] ▶
homosexuality could
[3:50:56 - 3:50:59] ▶
play the role of
[3:50:59 - 3:51:02] ▶
pedophilia.
[3:51:02 - 3:51:03] ▶
That two gay guys
[3:51:04 - 3:51:05] ▶
would be so terrified
[3:51:05 - 3:51:08] ▶
of having their secret
[3:51:08 - 3:51:09] ▶
revealed that they'd be
[3:51:09 - 3:51:12] ▶
willing to do almost
[3:51:12 - 3:51:13] ▶
anything to avoid that
[3:51:13 - 3:51:14] ▶
revelation.
[3:51:14 - 3:51:15] ▶
It's a stain that can
[3:51:15 - 3:51:17] ▶
be used, weaponized.
[3:51:17 - 3:51:19] ▶
Well, but I would
[3:51:19 - 3:51:20] ▶
say utilized.
[3:51:20 - 3:51:21] ▶
Yeah.
[3:51:21 - 3:51:22] ▶
Like hazing rituals,
[3:51:22 - 3:51:23] ▶
it's easy to see them
[3:51:23 - 3:51:25] ▶
as brutal, but that's
[3:51:25 - 3:51:27] ▶
not the function they
[3:51:27 - 3:51:27] ▶
serve.
[3:51:27 - 3:51:28] ▶
It's like people don't
[3:51:28 - 3:51:29] ▶
understand what the
[3:51:29 - 3:51:29] ▶
mob is.
[3:51:29 - 3:51:30] ▶
The mob is a contract
[3:51:30 - 3:51:32] ▶
enforcement service for
[3:51:32 - 3:51:33] ▶
enterprises that cannot
[3:51:33 - 3:51:35] ▶
use the courts.
[3:51:35 - 3:51:36] ▶
It's not violent because
[3:51:37 - 3:51:38] ▶
it's recreationally
[3:51:38 - 3:51:39] ▶
violent, and it's not
[3:51:39 - 3:51:40] ▶
violent because these
[3:51:40 - 3:51:41] ▶
people love violence.
[3:51:41 - 3:51:42] ▶
The idea is you have
[3:51:42 - 3:51:43] ▶
to enforce a drug
[3:51:43 - 3:51:44] ▶
contract or a loan
[3:51:44 - 3:51:45] ▶
sharking contract, you
[3:51:45 - 3:51:48] ▶
know, or a gambling.
[3:51:48 - 3:51:49] ▶
Some, somebody has to
[3:51:50 - 3:51:51] ▶
pay up.
[3:51:51 - 3:51:52] ▶
So the notion would
[3:51:52 - 3:51:53] ▶
be pedophilia was used
[3:51:53 - 3:51:55] ▶
as an enforcement
[3:51:55 - 3:51:55] ▶
system.
[3:51:55 - 3:51:56] ▶
Pedophilia is trust.
[3:51:56 - 3:51:58] ▶
Right.
[3:51:58 - 3:51:58] ▶
And nobody wants to
[3:52:00 - 3:52:01] ▶
say that, but that's
[3:52:01 - 3:52:01] ▶
what I think it is.
[3:52:01 - 3:52:02] ▶
You force people in
[3:52:02 - 3:52:03] ▶
that circle to commit
[3:52:03 - 3:52:04] ▶
these crimes.
[3:52:04 - 3:52:05] ▶
And then how do I
[3:52:06 - 3:52:07] ▶
know, how do I know I
[3:52:07 - 3:52:08] ▶
can trust person A?
[3:52:08 - 3:52:10] ▶
It's always a question.
[3:52:10 - 3:52:11] ▶
Do we come from the
[3:52:12 - 3:52:12] ▶
same ethnic group?
[3:52:12 - 3:52:13] ▶
That's not trust.
[3:52:13 - 3:52:14] ▶
That's black.
[3:52:14 - 3:52:15] ▶
That's low trust.
[3:52:15 - 3:52:16] ▶
No.
[3:52:16 - 3:52:16] ▶
It's blackmail.
[3:52:16 - 3:52:16] ▶
No.
[3:52:17 - 3:52:17] ▶
It's consequence.
[3:52:19 - 3:52:20] ▶
It's shared consequence.
[3:52:21 - 3:52:22] ▶
And the key point is
[3:52:23 - 3:52:24] ▶
shared consequence is a
[3:52:24 - 3:52:25] ▶
resource and a ritual.
[3:52:25 - 3:52:26] ▶
And all of these things
[3:52:27 - 3:52:28] ▶
are used to direct that
[3:52:28 - 3:52:30] ▶
resource.
[3:52:30 - 3:52:30] ▶
What you're seeing in the
[3:52:31 - 3:52:32] ▶
Epstein world is a high
[3:52:32 - 3:52:34] ▶
trust network.
[3:52:34 - 3:52:35] ▶
I think it's, yeah, I
[3:52:37 - 3:52:39] ▶
guess it's an enforcement
[3:52:39 - 3:52:40] ▶
network.
[3:52:40 - 3:52:40] ▶
It's like a, you know,
[3:52:40 - 3:52:41] ▶
made man mafia system.
[3:52:41 - 3:52:42] ▶
Correct.
[3:52:42 - 3:52:43] ▶
Sort of thing.
[3:52:43 - 3:52:43] ▶
There's an email from
[3:52:44 - 3:52:44] ▶
the girlfriend that
[3:52:44 - 3:52:46] ▶
alleges that he got in
[3:52:46 - 3:52:48] ▶
deeper than he meant to.
[3:52:48 - 3:52:49] ▶
He was told to do this.
[3:52:49 - 3:52:51] ▶
He didn't really mean any
[3:52:51 - 3:52:52] ▶
of it.
[3:52:52 - 3:52:53] ▶
It just came out in the
[3:52:53 - 3:52:54] ▶
latest trench.
[3:52:54 - 3:52:54] ▶
And it speaks to this
[3:52:55 - 3:52:56] ▶
notion of an enforcement
[3:52:56 - 3:52:57] ▶
campaign and enforcement
[3:52:57 - 3:52:58] ▶
infrastructure.
[3:52:58 - 3:52:59] ▶
But my claim is, is
[3:53:00 - 3:53:02] ▶
that in general, most of
[3:53:02 - 3:53:03] ▶
us are unfamiliar with how
[3:53:03 - 3:53:06] ▶
effective silent systems
[3:53:06 - 3:53:08] ▶
work.
[3:53:08 - 3:53:08] ▶
If you think about the
[3:53:10 - 3:53:11] ▶
Valachi papers and, you
[3:53:11 - 3:53:13] ▶
know, how the mob lost
[3:53:13 - 3:53:14] ▶
Omerta and the innovation
[3:53:14 - 3:53:16] ▶
of the Rico acts and all
[3:53:16 - 3:53:17] ▶
that kind of stuff.
[3:53:17 - 3:53:18] ▶
That was about, I think
[3:53:20 - 3:53:22] ▶
that the rule was that you
[3:53:22 - 3:53:24] ▶
killed every informant up
[3:53:24 - 3:53:27] ▶
to second cousins.
[3:53:27 - 3:53:28] ▶
Jesus Christ.
[3:53:28 - 3:53:29] ▶
Yeah.
[3:53:29 - 3:53:30] ▶
Like completely over the top
[3:53:30 - 3:53:32] ▶
and insane.
[3:53:32 - 3:53:32] ▶
Fuck.
[3:53:32 - 3:53:33] ▶
But that's how it worked.
[3:53:33 - 3:53:35] ▶
And what was the, what was
[3:53:36 - 3:53:38] ▶
the way that these people
[3:53:38 - 3:53:39] ▶
referred to each other as
[3:53:39 - 3:53:40] ▶
men of honor honors the
[3:53:40 - 3:53:42] ▶
proxy system.
[3:53:42 - 3:53:43] ▶
Of course, I'm going to
[3:53:43 - 3:53:44] ▶
honor you and you're going
[3:53:44 - 3:53:45] ▶
to honor me because it's
[3:53:45 - 3:53:46] ▶
too dangerous.
[3:53:46 - 3:53:47] ▶
It's too dangerous to
[3:53:47 - 3:53:48] ▶
contemplate anything else.
[3:53:48 - 3:53:50] ▶
My guess is, is that right
[3:53:51 - 3:53:52] ▶
now there's no one that can
[3:53:52 - 3:53:54] ▶
be hung out to dry because
[3:53:54 - 3:53:55] ▶
the first person who gets
[3:53:55 - 3:53:56] ▶
hung out to dry.
[3:53:56 - 3:53:56] ▶
So Bill Clinton saying, of
[3:53:56 - 3:53:58] ▶
course, I'd love to talk to
[3:53:58 - 3:54:00] ▶
Congress, bring them on.
[3:54:00 - 3:54:01] ▶
It's crazy.
[3:54:01 - 3:54:02] ▶
Well, why is that?
[3:54:03 - 3:54:04] ▶
I don't think he wants to
[3:54:05 - 3:54:06] ▶
talk to Congress.
[3:54:06 - 3:54:07] ▶
What I think he wants to do
[3:54:07 - 3:54:08] ▶
is to say, if you make me
[3:54:08 - 3:54:10] ▶
the fall guy, think about,
[3:54:10 - 3:54:11] ▶
think about what you're
[3:54:11 - 3:54:12] ▶
saying.
[3:54:12 - 3:54:12] ▶
Hmm.
[3:54:13 - 3:54:13] ▶
It's a little shot across
[3:54:13 - 3:54:14] ▶
the bow.
[3:54:14 - 3:54:15] ▶
I think it, I think it's
[3:54:15 - 3:54:16] ▶
got a lot to Trump's, Trump's
[3:54:16 - 3:54:18] ▶
dump of these documents was
[3:54:18 - 3:54:20] ▶
3 million shots across the
[3:54:20 - 3:54:21] ▶
bow.
[3:54:21 - 3:54:21] ▶
Yeah.
[3:54:22 - 3:54:22] ▶
I think so too.
[3:54:22 - 3:54:23] ▶
Also, we should note this
[3:54:23 - 3:54:26] ▶
was probably the sanitized
[3:54:26 - 3:54:28] ▶
version of these documents.
[3:54:28 - 3:54:31] ▶
No, no, no.
[3:54:31 - 3:54:31] ▶
This isn't even the sanitized
[3:54:31 - 3:54:32] ▶
version of these documents.
[3:54:32 - 3:54:33] ▶
They've also set up the idea
[3:54:34 - 3:54:35] ▶
of, okay, well, these 3
[3:54:35 - 3:54:36] ▶
million of the last year are
[3:54:36 - 3:54:37] ▶
getting ever good, but the
[3:54:37 - 3:54:38] ▶
other, not the 3 million.
[3:54:38 - 3:54:39] ▶
So then what is everybody
[3:54:39 - 3:54:40] ▶
going to do?
[3:54:40 - 3:54:41] ▶
They're going to chant.
[3:54:41 - 3:54:41] ▶
We want the other 3 million.
[3:54:41 - 3:54:43] ▶
Okay.
[3:54:43 - 3:54:44] ▶
Okay.
[3:54:44 - 3:54:44] ▶
Fine.
[3:54:44 - 3:54:45] ▶
Fine.
[3:54:45 - 3:54:45] ▶
We'll give you the last of
[3:54:45 - 3:54:46] ▶
them.
[3:54:46 - 3:54:47] ▶
And you just fell into the
[3:54:47 - 3:54:48] ▶
trap.
[3:54:48 - 3:54:49] ▶
Who said there were 6 million
[3:54:50 - 3:54:51] ▶
documents?
[3:54:51 - 3:54:52] ▶
Right.
[3:54:52 - 3:54:53] ▶
Tell me something.
[3:54:53 - 3:54:54] ▶
If this guy ran a hedge fund,
[3:54:54 - 3:54:57] ▶
that was a multi-billion dollar
[3:54:57 - 3:54:59] ▶
currency trading hedge fund.
[3:54:59 - 3:55:00] ▶
How many documents does a hedge
[3:55:01 - 3:55:03] ▶
fund throw off just due to
[3:55:03 - 3:55:05] ▶
compliance?
[3:55:05 - 3:55:06] ▶
Right.
[3:55:07 - 3:55:07] ▶
Nobody's making any sense at all.
[3:55:08 - 3:55:10] ▶
What you're seeing is a bunch of
[3:55:13 - 3:55:14] ▶
deeply grooved people not thinking
[3:55:14 - 3:55:16] ▶
for themselves.
[3:55:16 - 3:55:17] ▶
And they're, they're happy to
[3:55:17 - 3:55:20] ▶
repeat the heterodox version of
[3:55:20 - 3:55:23] ▶
the script that they're handed, but
[3:55:23 - 3:55:25] ▶
it's not the heterodox who are
[3:55:25 - 3:55:26] ▶
writing that.
[3:55:26 - 3:55:26] ▶
It's really crazy.
[3:55:29 - 3:55:30] ▶
Well, I'm officially demoralized
[3:55:30 - 3:55:34] ▶
and depressed.
[3:55:34 - 3:55:34] ▶
Don't do that, Jesse.
[3:55:35 - 3:55:37] ▶
No.
[3:55:37 - 3:55:37] ▶
Well, I appreciate, I mean,
[3:55:37 - 3:55:38] ▶
sometimes, you know, the truth
[3:55:38 - 3:55:40] ▶
sucks and you're a very incisive
[3:55:40 - 3:55:43] ▶
thinker and you have a way of
[3:55:43 - 3:55:44] ▶
elucidating things.
[3:55:44 - 3:55:46] ▶
Sometimes they're dark truths and
[3:55:46 - 3:55:48] ▶
realities that others don't.
[3:55:48 - 3:55:50] ▶
So I really appreciate your brain.
[3:55:50 - 3:55:53] ▶
And, um,
[3:55:53 - 3:55:54] ▶
but can we just finish it positively?
[3:55:55 - 3:55:56] ▶
Yeah, let's do it.
[3:55:57 - 3:55:57] ▶
Yeah.
[3:55:57 - 3:55:57] ▶
How do we do that?
[3:55:57 - 3:55:58] ▶
Well, if you don't mind,
[3:55:58 - 3:55:59] ▶
imagine that we threw off this UFO
[3:56:00 - 3:56:03] ▶
yoke and imagine that we just
[3:56:03 - 3:56:06] ▶
pushed on one, one particular place,
[3:56:06 - 3:56:09] ▶
which is Eric Davis saying,
[3:56:09 - 3:56:10] ▶
we have things that defy the laws of
[3:56:10 - 3:56:13] ▶
physics and no physicists.
[3:56:13 - 3:56:15] ▶
Imagine that the UFO community got
[3:56:15 - 3:56:18] ▶
really smart instead of doing what it
[3:56:18 - 3:56:20] ▶
always does and said, we're going to
[3:56:20 - 3:56:21] ▶
push on this one thing.
[3:56:21 - 3:56:22] ▶
How can you be threatened by craft that
[3:56:23 - 3:56:27] ▶
do not obey the laws of physics and make
[3:56:27 - 3:56:30] ▶
sure that the one type of person who could
[3:56:30 - 3:56:33] ▶
possibly help with this is to be found
[3:56:33 - 3:56:35] ▶
nowhere on the scene?
[3:56:35 - 3:56:36] ▶
Right.
[3:56:36 - 3:56:38] ▶
So the opportunity is, is that if Tulsi Gabbard
[3:56:38 - 3:56:44] ▶
or JD Vance or any one of these people
[3:56:44 - 3:56:46] ▶
sees this and says, I could change that
[3:56:46 - 3:56:50] ▶
tomorrow.
[3:56:50 - 3:56:50] ▶
I could snap my fingers and get an allocation of
[3:56:50 - 3:56:55] ▶
several million dollars.
[3:56:55 - 3:56:56] ▶
I can get a few theoretical physicists.
[3:56:56 - 3:56:58] ▶
Would change absolutely everything because one
[3:56:59 - 3:57:01] ▶
of the top theories has to be that the reason you
[3:57:01 - 3:57:05] ▶
can't have a theoretical physicist on this is that
[3:57:05 - 3:57:07] ▶
there are no graph that defy the laws of physics.
[3:57:07 - 3:57:09] ▶
I hope they put that to the test because Eric
[3:57:09 - 3:57:14] ▶
Davis is actually on record as part of James Fox's
[3:57:14 - 3:57:17] ▶
last movie saying, if you give me blanket immunity, I
[3:57:17 - 3:57:21] ▶
will say everything I know.
[3:57:21 - 3:57:22] ▶
And so I, I, I hope that they are able to just, you
[3:57:23 - 3:57:26] ▶
know, dress these people down.
[3:57:26 - 3:57:29] ▶
But we could, we could in a, in a, in a better world that
[3:57:29 - 3:57:32] ▶
we're not that far from push to have the one group of
[3:57:32 - 3:57:36] ▶
people who could crack this case for us, the detectives
[3:57:36 - 3:57:39] ▶
of our choice inserted.
[3:57:39 - 3:57:41] ▶
They were trained on our dollars.
[3:57:41 - 3:57:43] ▶
They're supported on our dollars.
[3:57:44 - 3:57:46] ▶
We have an arrangement with them.
[3:57:46 - 3:57:47] ▶
It's basically like not calling Delta Force when you've
[3:57:47 - 3:57:50] ▶
got a hostage rescue situation.
[3:57:50 - 3:57:52] ▶
Can I up the ante?
[3:57:52 - 3:57:53] ▶
Yeah.
[3:57:53 - 3:57:53] ▶
An interdisciplinary symposium where maybe the
[3:57:54 - 3:57:57] ▶
physicists are at the top.
[3:57:57 - 3:57:58] ▶
They're hanging out, but you also might have some other
[3:57:59 - 3:58:02] ▶
people.
[3:58:02 - 3:58:02] ▶
Don't bring in the mushrooms and the conscious.
[3:58:02 - 3:58:04] ▶
Let's just do theoretical physics and leave the rest
[3:58:04 - 3:58:09] ▶
for burning man.
[3:58:09 - 3:58:10] ▶
Fair enough.
[3:58:10 - 3:58:12] ▶
Well, to be continued, that's its whole other debate
[3:58:12 - 3:58:15] ▶
we can have or whatever, but I agree with the burning
[3:58:15 - 3:58:18] ▶
man issue.
[3:58:18 - 3:58:19] ▶
Okay.
[3:58:19 - 3:58:20] ▶
Well, thank you, Eric.
[3:58:20 - 3:58:21] ▶
This was awesome.
[3:58:21 - 3:58:21] ▶
Jack appreciate you.
[3:58:21 - 3:58:23] ▶
It's a lot of fun.
[3:58:23 - 3:58:24] ▶
I think this is going to be a historic episode.
[3:58:24 - 3:58:26] ▶
Thanks, Jets.
[3:58:26 - 3:58:27] ▶
All right.
[3:58:27 - 3:58:28] ▶
Cool.
[3:58:29 - 3:58:29] ▶
Cool.
[3:58:29 - 3:58:40] ▶
Cool.
[3:58:40 - 3:58:54] ▶
Cool.
[3:58:54 - 3:58:54] ▶
Cool.
[3:58:54 - 3:58:54] ▶
Cool.
[3:58:54 - 3:58:58] ▶
Congratulations.
[3:58:58 - 3:59:00] ▶