Transcript: Footage of a REAL Alien Exists! - James Fox - DEBRIEFED ep. 21

I heard about Rolls-Series' visitation of these so-called, you know,

[0:00:00 - 0:00:03] ▶

men in dark suits. And then I heard about it like a number of other times. I heard about it with

[0:00:03 - 0:00:07] ▶

the McMindville organ case she got a visit. Then I heard about it with Rex Halfland. He had a visit

[0:00:07 - 0:00:13] ▶

with these guys in suits. With the 1966 UFO-Laneat Westall Primary School,

[0:00:13 - 0:00:19] ▶

science teacher named Mr. Greenwood. And then we found out he had a visit from men in suits,

[0:00:20 - 0:00:24] ▶

a general Parvice Jaffari. And he told me he was like, yeah, the next morning, like the encounter

[0:00:24 - 0:00:28] ▶

happened in the middle of the night. The next morning, a couple of men from the United States

[0:00:28 - 0:00:32] ▶

government. I don't know what he could see there from there. We're there. Oh my god, here they are again.

[0:00:32 - 0:00:36] ▶

Let's see. I cover a case in Australia, Africa, South America, Chile, England, Russia, China,

[0:00:39 - 0:00:47] ▶

Canada, Alaska, across the United States. This is a global phenomenon. Has there ever been a

[0:00:47 - 0:00:53] ▶

moment where it's just like slipped out of your hands? The alien footage. Of Virginia? Yes. You were

[0:00:53 - 0:00:58] ▶

that close? We had a hard drive in our hands. You had a hard drive in your hands. See how I can

[0:00:58 - 0:01:02] ▶

talk about this. I want to talk about this without revealing the detail. Of course.

[0:01:02 - 0:01:06] ▶

Of course. Going back. When I walked out to around, looked into my eyes. I looked into his soul.

[0:01:06 - 0:01:10] ▶

I said, I promise you on my life, there was no camera audio, nothing rolling. This is between you and

[0:01:10 - 0:01:15] ▶

me right here right now. And he looks up at Mark Reiner and he goes, and it happened. Close the door,

[0:01:15 - 0:01:22] ▶

and off he went. I'm 99.9% sure that I look directly into the eyes of a gentleman who drove an

[0:01:22 - 0:01:28] ▶

alien around. I actually have a letter from Spielberg that was written to Larry King about me

[0:01:28 - 0:01:35] ▶

in my movie. Well, yeah. I don't talk about this that often. You recently got invited

[0:01:35 - 0:01:41] ▶

into a skiff. Yeah. And I could say is that the Pentagon? This is much as I've been asked not to

[0:01:42 - 0:01:49] ▶

reveal exactly why I went there because I could interfere with the investigation that are happening.

[0:01:49 - 0:01:56] ▶

But we're both going after the same footage. Oh, yeah. One more thing is really cool.

[0:01:56 - 0:02:00] ▶

Okay. He said, you know, a little little uh, factoid, something you might want to, you know,

[0:02:00 - 0:02:06] ▶

know, as I was like, what's that? He goes, get out of swear. My life. And there's probably,

[0:02:06 - 0:02:12] ▶

I mean, some framework outside of the government that really knows what's going on. Like it's

[0:02:12 - 0:02:18] ▶

I'm 20 people. 20. Wow. Globally. Globally 20 people. 20. Wow. And that was came from someone

[0:02:18 - 0:02:26] ▶

I really trust. Who's the first guest or witness? You would get in front of the camera if they were

[0:02:26 - 0:02:32] ▶

allowed to break their NDA? Yeah, I would agree with that too. I'd love to get him the skiff. And

[0:02:32 - 0:02:41] ▶

I, uh, uh, have to be careful what I say here, but for reasons that I won't discuss, I believe he's

[0:02:42 - 0:02:50] ▶

the first hand witness. Wow. Wow. Do you see things that if you talk about you, go to jail?

[0:02:50 - 0:03:00] ▶

No, but I can talk about things other people might go to jail.

[0:03:03 - 0:03:05] ▶

My name's James with my girlfriend. I look up and there's a like a silver take type shape.

[0:03:05 - 0:03:17] ▶

Yeah, I think there's no markings or windows on it. I thought about pulling on my phone

[0:03:17 - 0:03:21] ▶

or she'd take a picture of a record and I went to see where it went and it was gone.

[0:03:21 - 0:03:26] ▶

Get for a few weeks ago. I know. The day after we met, I know. We'll get into that. Yeah.

[0:03:28 - 0:03:33] ▶

This is pretty cool. This is your second time in a skiff. My second time in a skiff.

[0:03:34 - 0:03:37] ▶

But this one was more stressful. This was more welcoming because it's got my name. That's right.

[0:03:38 - 0:03:44] ▶

I like that. Yeah. I feel like, you know, we like to, uh, we like to take care of the guests that

[0:03:44 - 0:03:49] ▶

come in the skiff here, not to scare them to death. So Cafe, nice nice hats. Yeah. Appreciate the

[0:03:49 - 0:03:57] ▶

shout out. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm so there's two reasons why I'm wearing this hat. One is I love it.

[0:03:57 - 0:04:03] ▶

Two is my hair is in second place today. Yeah. Same hats in first place. So I figured, you know what?

[0:04:04 - 0:04:09] ▶

Love the hat. Nobody's paying me where this hat I actually really likes this hat and I'll be

[0:04:09 - 0:04:13] ▶

wearing it a lot more. Great. I appreciate that. Yeah. Welcome James Fox to the skiff.

[0:04:13 - 0:04:20] ▶

Thanks for having me. Yeah, man. It's a great pleasure. My end to have you here. And, you know,

[0:04:21 - 0:04:25] ▶

you're one of one of the first people to grace this studio among, you know, among only a few people

[0:04:25 - 0:04:31] ▶

that have ever been here. So I'm really, I'm really happy that we're actually bringing kind of

[0:04:31 - 0:04:36] ▶

bringing to the new year. Now this is December 31st last day of 2024. What a way to kick off a few

[0:04:36 - 0:04:42] ▶

hours to go. Yeah. I'm, yeah, I'm extremely, extremely happy to have you here. Um, you know,

[0:04:42 - 0:04:49] ▶

obviously you're coming off the amazing launch of the program and you've been doing the rounds.

[0:04:49 - 0:04:55] ▶

Yes. You know, uh, yeah, you got, you got Rogan. You did Rogan, you know, and then did the skiff,

[0:04:55 - 0:05:02] ▶

which the correct order. I think Rogan was my last was Rogan my last interview. I think he

[0:05:02 - 0:05:08] ▶

did Duncan. Oh, well, I did Duncan before, I did, I did Shane and then I did Duncan. And then I

[0:05:08 - 0:05:14] ▶

did Rogan. I was like, I really, I might have had a couple of things after. Well, maybe not actually

[0:05:14 - 0:05:19] ▶

maybe maybe one or two things I can't remember. But basically this is my first real sit down since Rogan.

[0:05:19 - 0:05:25] ▶

Yeah. And your first, um, like technical, we might get, we might get a little technical here.

[0:05:25 - 0:05:31] ▶

Because you know, the ears and eyes that are watching this podcast aren't necessarily just

[0:05:31 - 0:05:36] ▶

newcomers. There's a lot of people that are in the community that have been following your work

[0:05:36 - 0:05:39] ▶

for a long time. So you're familiar face to them. The program was incredible. It was such a much

[0:05:39 - 0:05:46] ▶

needed, how do you say, like a, it was a culmination of so many different things. I mean, coming off

[0:05:46 - 0:05:53] ▶

the phenomenon as well, and then moment of contact and the program, I felt like was we needed something

[0:05:53 - 0:06:00] ▶

to really encompass the entirety of what's going on currently. Like it is a timepiece. It is

[0:06:01 - 0:06:08] ▶

something that will be forever cemented in time as, hey, this is what's happening now. This will

[0:06:08 - 0:06:15] ▶

be remembered. And I thought that was such an important message that you conveyed through that,

[0:06:15 - 0:06:20] ▶

through the, through the editing, which we talked about yesterday. I mean, you do that yourself,

[0:06:20 - 0:06:25] ▶

which still blows my mind that you can have time for that. But hats off to you as a creator. Thank you.

[0:06:25 - 0:06:31] ▶

Yeah. Phenomenal job. What are your feelings now that the program is out and it's being viewed? How do

[0:06:31 - 0:06:37] ▶

you feel internally with that? Thank you for that intro. That was lovely. I never had such a deep

[0:06:37 - 0:06:47] ▶

sense of urgency with any film I've made in the past as I've done with the program because

[0:06:47 - 0:06:55] ▶

things are happening so quickly. You know, we've had three congressional hearings in the last three

[0:06:55 - 0:07:00] ▶

years. I mean, that's remarkable for people out there that think things aren't happening quick

[0:07:00 - 0:07:03] ▶

enough. So I had this real sense of urgency to get the film out because I was, you know, it's

[0:07:04 - 0:07:09] ▶

going to be yesterday's news. But also the mainstream media and people that have not been paying that

[0:07:09 - 0:07:16] ▶

much of attention need to really know, like I'm not trying to force anything down to anyone's

[0:07:16 - 0:07:20] ▶

throw it. But it's like, hey, there's something going on here. I think people should be paying

[0:07:20 - 0:07:24] ▶

attention. This is kind of a big deal. Yep. And it's lovely to see the bipartisan

[0:07:24 - 0:07:29] ▶

workmanship, right? Both Democrats and Republicans working on this on this issue together. And

[0:07:29 - 0:07:35] ▶

quite honestly, we're living in a time which is unprecedented time of a coordinated push for

[0:07:35 - 0:07:41] ▶

transparency on what in my opinion will turn out to be the biggest story of modern history.

[0:07:41 - 0:07:46] ▶

And you, you, sir, will be on the forefront of that by the way, which, which I think is very

[0:07:46 - 0:07:50] ▶

awesome. We're all in it together. We are in it together. That's for sure. This, by the way,

[0:07:50 - 0:07:54] ▶

is as funny. I just pulled this out of my shelf yesterday. I thought it was interesting. You were

[0:07:54 - 0:07:58] ▶

born in 68. Yes. This was 67. Oh, wow. This is a flying saucers and UFO reports. So you're saying

[0:07:58 - 0:08:05] ▶

that this right here is older than me. That is correct. That's impossible. What's interesting in

[0:08:05 - 0:08:11] ▶

that that could be framed. Yeah. That is so cool. And what's interesting is they even speculate

[0:08:11 - 0:08:17] ▶

about the moon landing in that because it happens two years later. So they're like, what are we

[0:08:17 - 0:08:23] ▶

going to find on the moon? And it's a really interesting thing. But that's a gift for you. I wanted

[0:08:23 - 0:08:26] ▶

you to have that. Oh my gosh. Thank you. There's some really interesting cases in there too that,

[0:08:26 - 0:08:31] ▶

as you know, there's so many cases that for lack of a better expression, fly under the radar.

[0:08:32 - 0:08:37] ▶

Yeah. There are thousands of cases out there. And if you go through obviously, you know,

[0:08:37 - 0:08:42] ▶

National Archive and all these other, you know, or old books like the Little Rensens or

[0:08:42 - 0:08:47] ▶

we're finding out about cases, you could read a new case every day for 10 years.

[0:08:48 - 0:08:53] ▶

God, is it young, Heinrich? This is really cool. You know, I got to interview Kenneth Arnold's

[0:08:53 - 0:09:02] ▶

daughter, Kim Arnold. She's in the phenomenon. Yeah. And I got to spend a couple of days with her

[0:09:02 - 0:09:07] ▶

and her daughter. And it was amazing to get the backstory because you know, you have that phenomenal

[0:09:07 - 0:09:14] ▶

case in June of 1947, which pretty much was the beginning of the modern UFO wave. And as

[0:09:14 - 0:09:20] ▶

where they coined the phrase flying saucer because he described it as a saucer skipping over water

[0:09:20 - 0:09:25] ▶

and one of the reporters was like flying saucer. And he was catapulted into the headlines all across

[0:09:25 - 0:09:30] ▶

the nation, correct, all across the world. I mean, the Kenneth Arnold thing was huge, right?

[0:09:30 - 0:09:35] ▶

And she, a little backstory, she's like, oh yeah, my father was really, really famous. He was

[0:09:36 - 0:09:42] ▶

recognizable walking on the streets like everybody knew Kenneth Arnold. And he was going to go on a

[0:09:42 - 0:09:47] ▶

just a little side story, but he was going to go on like a tour, he wrote a book, and he was going

[0:09:47 - 0:09:50] ▶

to go like do all these conferences and he got a visit. And I was like, he got a visit, really.

[0:09:50 - 0:09:57] ▶

She goes, oh yeah, he got a visit from from men and suits came in and they, they made it very

[0:09:57 - 0:10:03] ▶

clear. He was not going to be doing that. No way. He got spooked. He got majorly spooked. She said

[0:10:03 - 0:10:07] ▶

really. Yeah, that was my first experience hearing about the so-called, you know, men and suits.

[0:10:07 - 0:10:14] ▶

I hate to use the word men and black because it's got so much baggage. Disney.

[0:10:14 - 0:10:18] ▶

You know what I mean? Yeah. So I call it man and dark suits. You know, fair enough. You know,

[0:10:18 - 0:10:23] ▶

but it was like that really kind of started in 1947. And I reported on it even recently in the

[0:10:23 - 0:10:28] ▶

program. But in any case, sort of as a side, you think that was blue book? No, I was before.

[0:10:28 - 0:10:32] ▶

No, that was way prior to blue book. It was before I think anything really started because you had

[0:10:32 - 0:10:36] ▶

project sign, yeah, which started at some point in 47 or 48. Then you had project grudge. So

[0:10:36 - 0:10:43] ▶

that. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Wasn't a good, but he was going to go on tour and they

[0:10:43 - 0:10:51] ▶

came and visited him and they threatened him according to her. And that's what she told me. It was her

[0:10:51 - 0:10:54] ▶

dad. Wow. They threatened him. Like you, this is a big, big desert out here or something like that,

[0:10:54 - 0:11:01] ▶

you know, a big, big wilderness area. That's what she said. And I believe she even said that on

[0:11:01 - 0:11:06] ▶

camera, I should probably go digging for that and release it out in the public. But that's not the

[0:11:06 - 0:11:10] ▶

first time you've encountered that type of spooky behavior. No, but that was the earliest.

[0:11:10 - 0:11:16] ▶

That was the early 47 since then you've encountered quite a quite a few stories of people

[0:11:16 - 0:11:21] ▶

being told to, you know, keep their mouth shut. Has that ever come across your plate?

[0:11:22 - 0:11:29] ▶

So I probably heard about these these these intimidators. They they obvious gate, they

[0:11:31 - 0:11:38] ▶

intimidate they they're they're intimidating. And they come and if there's evidence, they'll take

[0:11:38 - 0:11:46] ▶

the evidence. They'll try to take the evidence. They try to get the witnesses terrified to not talk.

[0:11:46 - 0:11:53] ▶

And I heard about these since I probably the first time when I was investigating the Phoenix

[0:11:53 - 0:11:59] ▶

Lights case in the 90s and I did a couple of films covered a couple films on that old thing.

[0:11:59 - 0:12:05] ▶

I heard about the first, you know, visitation, real serious visitation of these so-called,

[0:12:05 - 0:12:11] ▶

you know, man in dark suits. And then I heard about it like a number of other times. I heard about it

[0:12:11 - 0:12:16] ▶

with with 1950 with the Minville organ case that she got a visit. It was Paul and Evelyn Trent.

[0:12:16 - 0:12:29] ▶

And Evelyn had talked about her husband was out of the town and this guy showed up and rummaged

[0:12:30 - 0:12:34] ▶

through her role from some unknown government agency. And that was 1950. Then I heard about it with

[0:12:34 - 0:12:39] ▶

Rex Rex Halflyn from I think Santa Ana 65. He had a visit with these guys and suits. And I ignored

[0:12:39 - 0:12:49] ▶

that one didn't report on it. Didn't report on the future one. Didn't report on the one from

[0:12:49 - 0:12:52] ▶

the Phoenix Lights case. And then I heard a number of other cases in the United States that I heard

[0:12:53 - 0:13:00] ▶

about some cases in Europe. Didn't report on it. Always American? Yeah, always admit,

[0:13:00 - 0:13:07] ▶

yeah, there's an unknown government agency in the US. Yeah, that has the ability to reach anywhere.

[0:13:07 - 0:13:14] ▶

Like I even interviewed a general Parvice Jaffari from the 1970s UFO incident over Tehran,

[0:13:14 - 0:13:23] ▶

Iran fascinating case. And he told me he was like, yeah, the next morning, like the encounter

[0:13:23 - 0:13:28] ▶

happened in the middle of the night, the next morning, a couple of men from the United States

[0:13:28 - 0:13:32] ▶

government. I don't know what he's either from there or there poking around asking questions.

[0:13:32 - 0:13:36] ▶

I was like, really, and I didn't report on that. But then I was in I was in Brazil, probably

[0:13:36 - 0:13:45] ▶

on and off for the last 12, 14 years. But I was in Brazil and was probably 2013, maybe 2014. And

[0:13:45 - 0:13:52] ▶

I was interviewing the mother of two really important witnesses that came according to them

[0:13:52 - 0:14:00] ▶

within 10 feet of a live creature in broad daylight. And the mother talked about these men in

[0:14:01 - 0:14:07] ▶

suits at Shudderborough House of very intimidating, very scary, and very just scary and intimidating.

[0:14:07 - 0:14:15] ▶

And they tried to persuade her to get her daughters to lie and they didn't see what they said.

[0:14:15 - 0:14:19] ▶

All this money as well. They offered a briefcase full of money. And that was it. I was like, okay,

[0:14:19 - 0:14:28] ▶

these guys exist. I've had enough hearing these stories. I'm going all in. I'm going to report on

[0:14:28 - 0:14:32] ▶

it. And I did that put you over the edge. I put me over the edge. Wow. Yeah. Finally, after all

[0:14:32 - 0:14:37] ▶

those years, yeah, you're like enough of these guys. Well, I knew it was a slippery slope. But I

[0:14:37 - 0:14:41] ▶

knew like reporting like if you look at my the history of my investigations of my filmmaking,

[0:14:41 - 0:14:45] ▶

I had heard about close count of the third kind. Of course, I mentioned the Rawlswell incident one

[0:14:46 - 0:14:50] ▶

of my first films, but in terms of like an alleged close encounter of the third kind when you've

[0:14:50 - 0:14:55] ▶

got witnesses reporting entities, beings, you know, creatures, whatever connected to the craft,

[0:14:55 - 0:15:01] ▶

that to me was a slippery slope. And I just avoided it for over 20 years, probably 25 years. I

[0:15:01 - 0:15:06] ▶

don't know. And it was same with the M.I.B. Because I just thought like, A, I can't prove it. And

[0:15:06 - 0:15:12] ▶

it just sounds so out there. Yeah. It just sounds kind of crazy. It sounds cliche almost sounds

[0:15:12 - 0:15:17] ▶

cliche. Exactly. And so and so I finally said the hell with it. And then actually I reported on

[0:15:17 - 0:15:23] ▶

less, less version on in the phenomenon with the 1966 UFO landing at Westall primary school. Yeah.

[0:15:24 - 0:15:32] ▶

Shane Ryan is very grateful for all the work he's done in that case. But that's when we got a whole

[0:15:33 - 0:15:39] ▶

of this science teacher named Mr. Dringwood. And he went silent for 50 years. In fact, when I arrived

[0:15:39 - 0:15:45] ▶

in Australia, people were even like the long term UFO researchers like don't even bother,

[0:15:45 - 0:15:50] ▶

you'll never come forward. Wow. And then so we finally and we found out he had a visit from men

[0:15:50 - 0:15:55] ▶

in suits and they scared us. Air Force. Yeah. He wasn't sure like two were in uniform. One was not

[0:15:55 - 0:16:00] ▶

in uniform, but they basically intimidated him and scared the bj's out of him. You silenced him

[0:16:00 - 0:16:04] ▶

for 50 years. Imagine. Yeah. So anyway, but enough men in black. Well, it is interesting that they

[0:16:04 - 0:16:12] ▶

have this sort of omnipresence globally. That is very interesting in that it's always it always

[0:16:12 - 0:16:16] ▶

seems to be American. Yeah. You know, because I had this discussion with some friends and we were

[0:16:16 - 0:16:21] ▶

actually on a discord and we were talking about is the men in black thing just solely a US thing

[0:16:21 - 0:16:28] ▶

because you hear about a lot of these cases. People like why is it always the US? Why is it always

[0:16:28 - 0:16:31] ▶

US? Well, they kind of have agency over everything that revolves around crash everything they show up

[0:16:31 - 0:16:39] ▶

everywhere. They showed up in Virginia. You know, they're they're retrieving these crafts in

[0:16:39 - 0:16:43] ▶

Italy. They're retrieving, you know, like all this around the world. Why wouldn't they also have

[0:16:43 - 0:16:48] ▶

feet on the ground and then Calvin as well. Yeah, it was amazing. That was a last minute development

[0:16:48 - 0:16:53] ▶

in the program because I'm quite honestly I'd heard about the 1990 Calvin UFO case from Nick Pope

[0:16:53 - 0:17:00] ▶

years ago. Right. Well over 20 years ago because I was like, how every time we didn't have

[0:17:00 - 0:17:06] ▶

any beer together, I'd be like, Nick, come on man, what was the best case here? And hands down, he

[0:17:06 - 0:17:10] ▶

would just like cover these two guys, Hykine and Scotland. He never used the word Calvin. I don't

[0:17:10 - 0:17:15] ▶

believe he did when he told me, but he said these guys were Hykine and Calvin. Broad daylight,

[0:17:15 - 0:17:19] ▶

five or six prints of its diamond shape, like disc diamond shape craft with military jazz.

[0:17:20 - 0:17:25] ▶

Wow, you saw that picture. He goes, yeah, man, we had a poster on the wall. So I like mildly

[0:17:26 - 0:17:31] ▶

chased after that case because I kept saying to Nick, who is the predecessor? Like what about

[0:17:31 - 0:17:37] ▶

people on the retire? They wouldn't have thrown that picture away. He goes, well, at some point,

[0:17:37 - 0:17:40] ▶

the poster was no longer on the wall at the MOD. I'm not sure. I said, well, they didn't throw it away.

[0:17:40 - 0:17:44] ▶

I can assure you that did not get thrown away. Somebody's got to have it. I was pestering him for,

[0:17:44 - 0:17:48] ▶

you know, for a long time. And then we cover that case. Thank God to David Clark because David Clark

[0:17:49 - 0:17:58] ▶

was going through some redacted documents that were released through FOIA. I don't know whether

[0:17:58 - 0:18:02] ▶

British equivalent would be any, any saw this thing that said, so and so the former

[0:18:02 - 0:18:10] ▶

RAF press officer blacked out, you know, in 1990s, who was the press officer in 1990, Craig Lindsay

[0:18:11 - 0:18:18] ▶

contacts him and he managed to keep one of those prints. So thanks to David Clark, we had a print.

[0:18:18 - 0:18:25] ▶

Yep. We had the only military or, yeah, I guess he would be military, we're a

[0:18:25 - 0:18:32] ▶

air force press officer Craig Lindsay, who the only known person to have interviewed the witnesses.

[0:18:32 - 0:18:37] ▶

So we had him come on camera. We had the print. We had Nick Pope at the former UFO desk at the MOD

[0:18:37 - 0:18:44] ▶

talk about the case. The only thing we were missing was like, what about the witnesses? What

[0:18:44 - 0:18:48] ▶

about the people that took the photograph? Where are they? And the last minute this guy came

[0:18:48 - 0:18:53] ▶

forward, Richard Greaves, who worked with them and the chef for the kitchen guys. And that's what

[0:18:53 - 0:18:58] ▶

it was like, that's when he was like, he started talking about these men that showed up and Suits,

[0:18:58 - 0:19:02] ▶

I was like, oh my god, here they are again. Yeah. So he's talking about that. And I was like,

[0:19:02 - 0:19:07] ▶

and they had a chauffeur, which I thought was interesting. Yes. The chauffeur never got out of the

[0:19:07 - 0:19:11] ▶

car. He stayed in the car and the other guys stood in the rain as if it didn't bother them.

[0:19:11 - 0:19:15] ▶

Hissing rain. He said it was bizarre. Hissing rain, Senator. But I said, oh, that's what they told

[0:19:15 - 0:19:20] ▶

you. He goes, no, mate, I was there when they rolled up. So you're a witness to that. Yes,

[0:19:20 - 0:19:27] ▶

and I love the way he describes it. Because he's like, I swear to my grig grig grig grig grig grig grig grig

[0:19:28 - 0:19:34] ▶

for his life. Yes, yes, yes, so funny. I know that was almost harder for me to decipher than the

[0:19:34 - 0:19:42] ▶

the Portuguese and the other in the other documentary. So one little side note that I'll share here

[0:19:42 - 0:19:50] ▶

is that my allowed to use like, exploatives. Yes. Yeah, go for it. So Richard Greaves, you know,

[0:19:50 - 0:19:58] ▶

he'd never really given like a like, I would say, on camera or like he done, he'd done one written

[0:19:58 - 0:20:04] ▶

interview. So written only so no voice, you know, and they took one photograph of him,

[0:20:04 - 0:20:08] ▶

but he'd never really given a real interview like what he did with us. And he kept putting it off.

[0:20:08 - 0:20:14] ▶

And I was, I was approaching the end of production. I mean, the film was a wrap. And I was like,

[0:20:14 - 0:20:19] ▶

just putting the finishing touches on and I kept contacting him because he agreed to do it

[0:20:19 - 0:20:25] ▶

through Richard Clark. Excuse me, David Clark. And he kept putting it off and then he just vanished.

[0:20:25 - 0:20:31] ▶

And I contacted David Clark and I was like, hot, Richard Greaves test them when it's going to be so

[0:20:31 - 0:20:34] ▶

important. Like, you know, did I pass to him? Did I upset him? Maybe I pushed him too much. Like,

[0:20:34 - 0:20:40] ▶

David's like, no, man, it took me two years to get a written out of him. So that's kind of his nature,

[0:20:40 - 0:20:45] ▶

you know, and so one night he finally calls and he'd had a couple of pints and he's like, I'm ready.

[0:20:45 - 0:20:50] ▶

I think it was obviously really nervous from the whole experience. I'm ready. Well, he uses a

[0:20:50 - 0:20:54] ▶

lot of explosives and and it was a brilliant interview. I remember it was Lance Mungia. It was

[0:20:54 - 0:21:02] ▶

Donnie in the room. It was my sister, myself. And I think we had one other person. I'm trying to

[0:21:02 - 0:21:08] ▶

remember the headroom that night. And he calls and we get the whole thing. We just capture it on

[0:21:08 - 0:21:13] ▶

camera. We're going through the interview and he's like, he's like, the fucking why is a fucking

[0:21:13 - 0:21:18] ▶

goose? And I made fucking poached eggs. They made toast. You know, and he's like, so at the end of

[0:21:18 - 0:21:25] ▶

the interview, I call my buddy Jim Martin and who I'm working with on the film. And I said, Jim,

[0:21:25 - 0:21:30] ▶

him. This guy is a really good interview, but he kind of says, fuck a lot. He goes and Jim's like,

[0:21:30 - 0:21:38] ▶

okay, well, how many times did he say it? I was like, a lot. He's like, what? Couple times. I was

[0:21:38 - 0:21:42] ▶

like, no, more than a couple. A lot. How many fucks can we include in the movie? He goes, God,

[0:21:42 - 0:21:49] ▶

I would say a couple of fucks. I would say two, maybe three. I was like in the whole movie, he goes,

[0:21:49 - 0:21:54] ▶

yeah, anything more than that. And yeah. So, so he ate up your entire fuck budget for the program.

[0:21:54 - 0:22:01] ▶

It was so funny. So, so I went into the the sound engineer. This guy at Jitterpropose. He's great.

[0:22:02 - 0:22:08] ▶

At Ben Zeray and and Ben's like, well, what's going on? I was like, well, you know, you might have to

[0:22:08 - 0:22:15] ▶

beep, you know, because I'm only really allowed just a couple of fucks. You know, and this guy is

[0:22:16 - 0:22:21] ▶

like, you know, he's very passionate and he's obviously been sitting on this story for a long time.

[0:22:21 - 0:22:25] ▶

And Ben's like, well, how many fucks can, you know, are okay? We're just like, I can't believe you're

[0:22:25 - 0:22:30] ▶

having this conversation, right? It's like, well, I think three, maybe two, three, four at the

[0:22:30 - 0:22:35] ▶

most. He's like, I'll write a number down a slide. It's all right. So he's like, well, okay, we'll

[0:22:35 - 0:22:39] ▶

all just beep them out. And so, so he starts beeping them out. And then we listen to him. We're like,

[0:22:39 - 0:22:44] ▶

oh, man, that doesn't sound good. You know what? Let me get in there. Do some microscopic surgery.

[0:22:44 - 0:22:48] ▶

I think I can just get a couple of those fucks out. So we'll only have a couple. So I said it once

[0:22:48 - 0:22:53] ▶

during the interview and then he said it a couple times, but it was really funny. We're having this

[0:22:53 - 0:22:57] ▶

very serious conversation about like, how many fucks, how many fucks can we get away within a movie?

[0:22:57 - 0:23:03] ▶

Yeah. I think three was the magic number. Meanwhile, this guy's like, yeah, the men in black showed up.

[0:23:03 - 0:23:09] ▶

Yeah. It's a perfect situation to use the effort, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. He was out there.

[0:23:09 - 0:23:13] ▶

We're fucking smokes. Yeah. Yeah. He said that. Yes. You know, um, very passionate. So I mean,

[0:23:13 - 0:23:19] ▶

I've got a few questions here, but it does bring me to one question is because you touched on it a

[0:23:19 - 0:23:24] ▶

little bit, but let's say you're in a situation and a witness is sitting in front of you.

[0:23:24 - 0:23:29] ▶

What do you do to gain their trust to make them open up? Like, what is that like? What is that

[0:23:30 - 0:23:34] ▶

exchange like? Because I know a lot of times, a lot of these people, like as we mentioned, are scared,

[0:23:34 - 0:23:40] ▶

are threatened. So what is your sort of go to tactic to get them to open up? Is it just time or

[0:23:40 - 0:23:48] ▶

is it something else? Like, where do you go for that? A lot of people think that, um, and I read,

[0:23:48 - 0:23:54] ▶

I try not to read the comments. George and Ab always tell me don't read the comments. And sometimes

[0:23:54 - 0:23:58] ▶

I do. And it's very nice when you get people, uh, you know, very supportive of what you do. And

[0:23:58 - 0:24:04] ▶

then people are like, Oh, you know, people are just coming forward because they want to be in the

[0:24:04 - 0:24:09] ▶

limelight. And I'm like, you know, the better the witness, the more difficult it is to get these

[0:24:09 - 0:24:14] ▶

people to come forward. Like I cannot, I'm beside, I cannot overstate that. I remember this guy,

[0:24:14 - 0:24:21] ▶

James Rigni in Australia goes, he's like, how do you do it? How do you get these guys to come forward?

[0:24:21 - 0:24:26] ▶

I said, James, and I was serious. I said, James, I look into their soul.

[0:24:26 - 0:24:29] ▶

And I realize I look into their soul. He goes, you look into their soul. I say, yeah, I do. And I say,

[0:24:30 - 0:24:36] ▶

this story is so much more important than any one of us. This is something that could affect the

[0:24:36 - 0:24:41] ▶

lives of every man, woman and child on this planet. And we have to remember that. And I look into

[0:24:41 - 0:24:47] ▶

their soul. And that's what I do. And I, and I remind them of that. Like, this is so much bigger.

[0:24:47 - 0:24:54] ▶

And, and it's really hard. And you know, I've had people tell me, I don't care all the money

[0:24:55 - 0:25:00] ▶

in the world. I'm never coming forward and then just spend a little time with them. And magic can

[0:25:00 - 0:25:04] ▶

happen. Beautiful. Yeah. That's, I'm glad you didn't. I'm glad you weren't like, well, I have to

[0:25:04 - 0:25:11] ▶

pay him off or like, yeah, no, James Rigni is the only other person that asked me that question.

[0:25:11 - 0:25:16] ▶

That's a great question. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just so fascinating because being,

[0:25:16 - 0:25:19] ▶

being someone who's getting into this investigating a lot of this stuff as well, I find that that

[0:25:20 - 0:25:25] ▶

is like the merkeous territory because fact exists, data is out there, footage, photos, but

[0:25:25 - 0:25:31] ▶

testimony is the rare stuff that we found. Like, there are, I mean, obviously, you know, seeing,

[0:25:31 - 0:25:37] ▶

seeing an HD video is something else. But the next best thing is a human interaction, in my

[0:25:37 - 0:25:43] ▶

opinion, because I think that conveys much more than what you can read on a transcript. It conveys

[0:25:43 - 0:25:48] ▶

emotion, it conveys real fear or real surprise. And, and these are things that you can't fake. And,

[0:25:48 - 0:25:53] ▶

you can put someone on a lie detector all you want or you can do all the other extra things.

[0:25:53 - 0:25:58] ▶

But this, for me, is the most convincing part of it. Kurt McConnell stepped down from Senator

[0:25:58 - 0:26:05] ▶

on Service Committee. He spent 37 years top secret clearance. He talks about what he did from

[0:26:05 - 0:26:12] ▶

2017 to 2024 in the program. And, and there was one little clip that he gave that I actually,

[0:26:12 - 0:26:20] ▶

I like to take the credits, and I like to spice the credits up. And I was put these little

[0:26:20 - 0:26:25] ▶

Easter eggs in the credits because when I'm editing, I like color coat everything.

[0:26:25 - 0:26:30] ▶

I don't have like, like purple, pink, gold, blue. And then, and then, and then once I color

[0:26:31 - 0:26:39] ▶

coat everything and organize something, then I'll, I'll, in the timeline, I'll put the video

[0:26:39 - 0:26:43] ▶

signal, I'll stack it. And stuff that's right at the top is like, it's got to go in the movie.

[0:26:43 - 0:26:49] ▶

It's both got to go the top or it's gold, it's golden. It's blue. It's generally B roll. And then

[0:26:49 - 0:26:53] ▶

I stack it. And sometimes I just don't find a place for it in the movie. It just doesn't fit,

[0:26:53 - 0:26:58] ▶

right? But I was like, this is so good. So I always like take all those little gems. I call them

[0:26:58 - 0:27:02] ▶

GM's golden moments. And I, I put them off to the end of the timeline. And then I, I stack them

[0:27:02 - 0:27:07] ▶

all up there. And I, I see one, I put them all in the same spot. And then at the end of the movie,

[0:27:07 - 0:27:12] ▶

I go to those little gems. And I, I put them in and I sprinkle the, you know, with good music,

[0:27:12 - 0:27:18] ▶

the credits. And then I'll show another GM. And Kirk McConnell makes a really good point.

[0:27:18 - 0:27:26] ▶

He says, you know, we put people, we sentence people to death based on eyewitness testimony.

[0:27:26 - 0:27:32] ▶

But that same logic doesn't apply to the phenomenon, right? And I thought, what a really good,

[0:27:32 - 0:27:39] ▶

what a really good point. He's totally right. Like eyewitness testimony is relevant when it comes

[0:27:39 - 0:27:44] ▶

to the phenomenon, just because we can't explain it doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's right.

[0:27:44 - 0:27:49] ▶

So yeah, it's good point. Yeah. Um, was there ever a whistleblower you came across that you didn't

[0:27:49 - 0:27:54] ▶

believe? Not a whistleblower per se, but maybe someone who came forward. Yeah, to rather not use

[0:27:54 - 0:28:01] ▶

that individual's name. But would you, would you say yes? There was. Yes. How do you handle that

[0:28:01 - 0:28:04] ▶

situation where you just let them speak and then be like, I'm going to cut this like what,

[0:28:04 - 0:28:08] ▶

what's that like for you? Or is that like breaking? I remember I got contacted. There was this one

[0:28:08 - 0:28:13] ▶

individual. And this individual remain nameless, but it was, it was to do with the betwaters.

[0:28:13 - 0:28:18] ▶

December 1980, UFO incursion over the joint US, British Air Base, the landing. And there was

[0:28:19 - 0:28:26] ▶

one particular individual that I just found him sketchy. And we'd already interviewed him.

[0:28:26 - 0:28:31] ▶

And it was good for the movie out of the blue. And I got into an argument with my co-producer,

[0:28:32 - 0:28:37] ▶

but I was ultimately the director and I got to override even though these guys were 10 years my

[0:28:37 - 0:28:40] ▶

senior. I was like, no, no, no, no. And I was like, what, we know what? And, and because I just

[0:28:40 - 0:28:46] ▶

didn't get the vibe, man, I just, I don't know. And you know, I struggled with that too. It was a

[0:28:46 - 0:28:52] ▶

gut thing. Yeah. It was his mannerisms. It was the way he conducted himself in the interview.

[0:28:52 - 0:28:57] ▶

His eye contact just didn't quite align with me. I really had an issue. Wow.

[0:28:57 - 0:29:03] ▶

Some of the claims were inconsistent with the other witnesses. And I just, I don't know, man,

[0:29:03 - 0:29:07] ▶

it seemed like, I don't know. I kind of got the impression that he believed what he was saying.

[0:29:07 - 0:29:12] ▶

But I don't know, it just, you were lying. I wasn't, yeah. And so I remember I got into this

[0:29:12 - 0:29:16] ▶

argument with my buddy Tim Coleman over it. He forgave me in the end. But and then I had some

[0:29:16 - 0:29:22] ▶

people contact me later on and they're like, oh, I can't believe you, you know, you didn't

[0:29:22 - 0:29:26] ▶

include that. And then like 10 years after that, they were like, oh, good thing you didn't include

[0:29:26 - 0:29:30] ▶

that. It turned out to be kind of right. And sometimes people are maybe exposed to disinformation

[0:29:30 - 0:29:36] ▶

unknowingly, you know? Some, you know, I mean, one of the things that Deputy Based Commander

[0:29:36 - 0:29:40] ▶

Colonel Charles Hall talked about with the Ben Waters case in 1980 was that this again,

[0:29:40 - 0:29:47] ▶

he was a plane that came in from Germany and it was some US unknown government agency that stepped

[0:29:47 - 0:29:53] ▶

in and kind of took over and sanitized the whole case and subjected according to the base

[0:29:53 - 0:29:58] ▶

command, Deputy Based Commander, Charles Hall. A lot of the witnesses to Saudi and Penethal.

[0:29:58 - 0:30:03] ▶

And like tweak them out and God knows whatever they did and interrogation or

[0:30:04 - 0:30:10] ▶

some MK Ultra stuff. Weird shit. And so maybe, you know, maybe other memories were in plant,

[0:30:10 - 0:30:17] ▶

who knows? Right. What kind of games they're playing, you know? And I think that could happen

[0:30:17 - 0:30:22] ▶

to witnesses and have a legitimate, you know, experience and then get manipulated post-experience

[0:30:22 - 0:30:29] ▶

and that kind of just throws everywhere off because it's like everybody's talking about a landing

[0:30:29 - 0:30:33] ▶

and then all of a sudden, you know, one individual's talking about contact with all these other

[0:30:33 - 0:30:37] ▶

people who are there, it doesn't align with everybody else's memory, something's off. Yeah.

[0:30:37 - 0:30:41] ▶

And sometimes I think that's a deliberate effort to obfuscate the whole thing. Yeah. Right?

[0:30:41 - 0:30:46] ▶

It's like the holoman landing case I'm convinced and I don't, well, I think it was like probably

[0:30:46 - 0:30:52] ▶

1964 is my guess on the date. I could be wrong, but I think it's 1964. And I was investigating

[0:30:52 - 0:30:58] ▶

the case landing case in Sakoro, New Mexico that also occurred in 1964 and Sakoro is very close.

[0:30:58 - 0:31:03] ▶

Very close to holoman, white sands. And I'm investigating that case and I was reading some

[0:31:03 - 0:31:09] ▶

articles by Kerala Renzan and I was led me to a documentary past, a UFO's past president future

[0:31:09 - 0:31:15] ▶

with Alan Sandler and Bob M. Nigger. And I was like, oh, man, that case really happened.

[0:31:15 - 0:31:21] ▶

And then I came across some information like there was a meeting with the president and all

[0:31:21 - 0:31:24] ▶

this other stuff. And I was like, well, that suddenly goes sideways. I have to say that it did or

[0:31:24 - 0:31:29] ▶

didn't happen. I don't know. I certainly started to believe that the landing case happened.

[0:31:29 - 0:31:33] ▶

And all of a sudden they're talking about meeting with presidents and all this other stuff. And

[0:31:33 - 0:31:36] ▶

I kind of threw me off the case and I was thinking myself, was that an intentional thing to throw

[0:31:37 - 0:31:42] ▶

people off? Like you take an incident that most likely happened and then you throw a bunch of crazy

[0:31:42 - 0:31:48] ▶

substantiated stuff in there to throw people off. Who knows? But unfortunately a guy named Paul

[0:31:49 - 0:31:53] ▶

Shardall who worked at North and Air Force base security. Yeah, that was, excuse me, in the early 60s.

[0:31:53 - 0:31:59] ▶

So what happened was they were doing that. They were shooting that documentary, UFO's past

[0:32:01 - 0:32:07] ▶

president future and there were have an unprecedented level of access, granted to them by the

[0:32:07 - 0:32:15] ▶

government. It was quite remarkable. They were going on all these military basins and go watch

[0:32:15 - 0:32:18] ▶

the movies. It's incredible. Colonel Coleman at the time was, was, was either Presley his own

[0:32:18 - 0:32:25] ▶

for the, for the Pentagon or press officer, but in any case, and he basically called the various

[0:32:25 - 0:32:30] ▶

bases, hey, there's a film crew coming, Alan Sanders got Bob M. Nigger, given full, you know,

[0:32:30 - 0:32:35] ▶

access and show them around the base doing an interview about UFOs. And so

[0:32:36 - 0:32:41] ▶

Paul Shardall got that message, like, hey, these guys are showing up and they did at North

[0:32:42 - 0:32:47] ▶

and Air Force base and Paul had just processed film footage of a landing of a disc at at

[0:32:47 - 0:32:54] ▶

hole in the Air Force base. And, and Paul showed it. Unfortunately, M. Nigger wasn't, wasn't filming

[0:32:54 - 0:33:04] ▶

that day on the, on at the base, but, but Alan was there. So Paul pulls Alan into the screening

[0:33:04 - 0:33:09] ▶

room and shows him this footage of a landing. And Alan and Paul Shardall's convinced it's a legit,

[0:33:09 - 0:33:15] ▶

it's a legit landing. And so I'm investigating this whole thing and I'm sucking it, M. Nigger

[0:33:15 - 0:33:22] ▶

about it. And then it's revealed that Alan was showing this footage. And I have this thing,

[0:33:22 - 0:33:27] ▶

and I've talked about this before when, when, when, and I did this with, um, firing this guy,

[0:33:27 - 0:33:33] ▶

Travis Walton, I remember the first time I met him, I will sometimes close my eyes and I'll get

[0:33:33 - 0:33:39] ▶

their words to create the imagery in my head. So it's like I'm almost experiencing it through

[0:33:39 - 0:33:43] ▶

their eyes. So I'll close my eyes and let the words create the imagery. So I'm watching like a

[0:33:43 - 0:33:49] ▶

film strip as opposed to like listening to words, you know. So I did that with Alan and I said,

[0:33:49 - 0:33:54] ▶

okay, Alan, and I guess some every possible detail you could ever imagine because I wanted to see

[0:33:54 - 0:33:59] ▶

that footage as best I possibly could. So I was like, let me get this straight, Alan. You're telling

[0:33:59 - 0:34:06] ▶

me that you saw the footage of a landing at Holman. Yes. How did you see it? He's like a

[0:34:07 - 0:34:14] ▶

pole shuttle. Pulled it out and showed it to me. I was like, why didn't M. Nigger see it? He

[0:34:14 - 0:34:17] ▶

wasn't with me that day. Okay. So then what happened? He goes, well, he said, he said it was like

[0:34:17 - 0:34:24] ▶

three discs at a high altitude, maybe 9,000 feet. And they were escorted by military jets. I don't

[0:34:24 - 0:34:31] ▶

know if he said one jet or multiple jets. I don't know, but the three discs, I know for sure,

[0:34:31 - 0:34:35] ▶

I remember that for sure. Three discs coming in and it's late afternoon. These are early morning

[0:34:35 - 0:34:41] ▶

labels. I'll go to the late afternoon. Three discs coming in at high altitude. They get over the

[0:34:41 - 0:34:47] ▶

base. Two of them peel away. And then the third one in the middle oscillates down and he goes,

[0:34:47 - 0:34:55] ▶

Alan goes, yeah, it was like it was in trouble or something. It wasn't flying that well. I'm

[0:34:55 - 0:34:59] ▶

thinking to myself, that's how they fly when they're going slow. They do this like a leaf kind

[0:34:59 - 0:35:04] ▶

of falling. He said the disc came down wobbling like it was in trouble. And he goes, James, it landed

[0:35:04 - 0:35:10] ▶

and I said, okay, was it a tripod would, you know, yes, he goes, I think the camera was on a tripod

[0:35:10 - 0:35:15] ▶

because it wasn't handheld. It looked like they were anticipating something going down. Or maybe

[0:35:15 - 0:35:19] ▶

they were filming some other exercises. They were ready. But he goes, yeah, it was it was locked.

[0:35:19 - 0:35:23] ▶

It seemed like they knew this was happening. Or they were filming something else. I can't remember,

[0:35:23 - 0:35:28] ▶

I wish I could remember that detail. And I should remember that detail, but I don't, but it

[0:35:28 - 0:35:31] ▶

doesn't have access to sporting and it would seem that way. It seems a little too perfect.

[0:35:31 - 0:35:35] ▶

Dad, I don't know for sure. I wish I could. Anyway, so the disc comes down and he goes, James,

[0:35:35 - 0:35:41] ▶

and I said, well, did it have a tripod landing? Did it have pods? Like, what did it land? He goes,

[0:35:41 - 0:35:45] ▶

you know, like, James, I don't remember, but it was firmly sitting on the ground. And this is the

[0:35:45 - 0:35:50] ▶

part I remember really well. He goes, James, like in a sci-fi movie, there were no scenes. Like

[0:35:50 - 0:35:54] ▶

this door just opens up and drops to the ground and there's stairs. And two

[0:35:54 - 0:36:00] ▶

beans are, you know, come out and they flank either side of the staircase. And then the third one

[0:36:01 - 0:36:07] ▶

comes out and he said they had like an Allen was convinced that this was a real flying saucer

[0:36:07 - 0:36:15] ▶

with real technology, not a special effect, but that they took a real flying saucer and

[0:36:15 - 0:36:20] ▶

dressed people up like aliens as a staged event, which I don't believe that, but whatever,

[0:36:20 - 0:36:26] ▶

that's a side note. And Allen goes, yeah, just like in a sci-fi movie, this thing opens up.

[0:36:26 - 0:36:31] ▶

There know like you couldn't see a door there and it just opens and drops staircase. Two guys

[0:36:31 - 0:36:36] ▶

get out, they flank, they flank the staircase and then a third gentleman gets out and he said he

[0:36:36 - 0:36:42] ▶

had like a like a tight fitting suit on. He had a big nose, tiny mouth, not much of a chin,

[0:36:42 - 0:36:49] ▶

big eyes with vertical slits. And then he had this like head gear, almost like Egyptian head

[0:36:49 - 0:36:54] ▶

gear. And then he had a, and this is what Allen told me, he had like some kind of device that he

[0:36:54 - 0:37:01] ▶

assumed was a was supposed to be a translator device, a communication device, didn't know for sure.

[0:37:01 - 0:37:07] ▶

And he was met by people in uniform dressed, you know, military officers in uniform. I was like,

[0:37:07 - 0:37:12] ▶

what happened then? He goes, well, they met this one individual and he went into over to a jeep,

[0:37:13 - 0:37:18] ▶

got in the jeep and off the drove. And then the film footage ends. I said, the film footage ends

[0:37:18 - 0:37:23] ▶

with the disc just sitting there on the ground. He's like, yeah, so I find this out. And I mean,

[0:37:23 - 0:37:30] ▶

quite honestly, I was like, holy shit, because I was starting to believe that that case had happened

[0:37:30 - 0:37:35] ▶

because I was, I investigated the Sikoro landing case that happened in April 24, 1964. And with

[0:37:36 - 0:37:42] ▶

a police officer named Lana Zamora, and I was really sticking my teeth into that case over a five

[0:37:42 - 0:37:46] ▶

year period. Now, Holam insists a stone's throw from from Sikoro, right? Because by the

[0:37:46 - 0:37:53] ▶

grump as a crow flies. Well, I believed, I absolutely believed in the landing and the close

[0:37:53 - 0:37:59] ▶

encounter of the third kind in Sikoro, which is one of the most well-documented close encounters of

[0:37:59 - 0:38:03] ▶

third-counting US history. Why not have and something similar at the base? Why not? You know, I have to be

[0:38:03 - 0:38:10] ▶

open to that. So I'm sitting there going, wow, so then I'm talking to Aminagar, by the way,

[0:38:10 - 0:38:17] ▶

Aminagar. Well, so I said, well, Alan, why didn't you ever tell Aminagar? And I actually have video

[0:38:17 - 0:38:23] ▶

of a phone call that I made. I have it somewhere else. You dig it up where I called, I was, I was

[0:38:23 - 0:38:29] ▶

with Alan and I called Aminagar or I was with Aminagar and I called Alan because I was like,

[0:38:29 - 0:38:35] ▶

why is it that you didn't tell the partner that you were doing the documentary with back in 1972

[0:38:36 - 0:38:41] ▶

that you were showing the footage by Paul Scharnel? He's like, well, some men in suits showed up.

[0:38:41 - 0:38:47] ▶

There we go. Either later that day or first thing the next morning took the footage from Paul

[0:38:47 - 0:38:52] ▶

Scharnel, took it away, gone. And like, don't ever talk about this kind of thing. And so Alan

[0:38:52 - 0:38:59] ▶

didn't tell his own partner that he'd seen it until years later. But I have him on camera. So

[0:38:59 - 0:39:03] ▶

then I was talking to Aminagar about it. And I said, well, Alan thinks it was a real flying saucer.

[0:39:04 - 0:39:09] ▶

So you had that technology in 1972, but there was a staged event with people looking like aliens.

[0:39:09 - 0:39:15] ▶

And Aminagar's like, bullshit, no. I said, why, why do you feel so adamant about that? He goes,

[0:39:15 - 0:39:20] ▶

because I knew Paul Scharnel. I actually talked to Paul Scharnel about it. I talked to the guy that

[0:39:20 - 0:39:24] ▶

processed the film budget, nor near force base. And he goes, in fact, and he dug it up. He did a

[0:39:24 - 0:39:29] ▶

search for Paul Scharnel and Robert Aminagar on some TV show in the either late 70s or early 80s.

[0:39:29 - 0:39:35] ▶

And he died in a car crash. Paul Scharnel with his wife had on car collision. They both died.

[0:39:35 - 0:39:40] ▶

But before that happened, he gave an interview. And he talked about why he believed that was a

[0:39:40 - 0:39:43] ▶

legitimate UFO landing that was captured on film footage. In fact, I've talked to people about it

[0:39:43 - 0:39:50] ▶

within the government recently. Like you should go after that footage. I think it exists. In fact,

[0:39:50 - 0:39:54] ▶

I can put you in a touch with the guy who's seen it. That's the Holy Grail. That's the Holy Grail.

[0:39:54 - 0:39:59] ▶

That's the one. That's the one. And it's just another question. Like what's the, what's the thing?

[0:39:59 - 0:40:03] ▶

And that's it. That's got to be it. Well, in terms of the multi-angles, like, I mean,

[0:40:03 - 0:40:08] ▶

in terms of of a case that happened on a military base, boy, that's pretty damn good.

[0:40:09 - 0:40:13] ▶

It's pretty damn good, especially considering that, you know, the cameras were in focus enough

[0:40:13 - 0:40:20] ▶

and had the quality enough to notice that the scene appeared on the craft. And that's a big detail

[0:40:20 - 0:40:24] ▶

for me because when filming something like that with these old cameras, you'd expect fuzzy greenie.

[0:40:24 - 0:40:28] ▶

But if you can tell from that footage that the scene opened, that means you can probably see the

[0:40:28 - 0:40:34] ▶

expression on those beings' faces. Like that's a heck of a claim. Yeah. And it's a remarkable case.

[0:40:34 - 0:40:40] ▶

But, you know, Varsignia is also because it's more recent. Yeah. In 96. And that does have something

[0:40:40 - 0:40:48] ▶

to do with people's ability to believe in the story as well, right? That holds some importance.

[0:40:48 - 0:40:52] ▶

Yeah. It's a preponderance of eyewitness testimony. I mean, pretty much, I mean, if you go to the town

[0:40:52 - 0:40:58] ▶

of Varsignia, Brazil, it's about four hours north of São Paulo.

[0:40:58 - 0:41:00] ▶

Chances are if you get out into the main square and you start talking about it, they'll either have,

[0:41:03 - 0:41:07] ▶

you know, especially if they're older. First hand knowledge are like, oh my cousin, my brother,

[0:41:07 - 0:41:11] ▶

my mom, you know, that was actually a question for later coming up in the discord by Nelson. He

[0:41:11 - 0:41:16] ▶

wanted to know. He was like, he loved knowing a contact and Nelson, he's a great friend. He's a

[0:41:16 - 0:41:22] ▶

the memory champion I told you about. But he was, he said, you know, would James be willing to

[0:41:22 - 0:41:28] ▶

elaborate a little bit on those interactions because he found that like many of us so fascinating

[0:41:28 - 0:41:33] ▶

that at the very beginning, it kind of caught you off guard, how forthcoming just the local

[0:41:33 - 0:41:38] ▶

citizens were about this. And you would just ask people and they had answers for you. Can you elaborate

[0:41:38 - 0:41:44] ▶

on that? Like, does there are a lot that you left out of those interactions? Yeah, I mean, yeah,

[0:41:44 - 0:41:49] ▶

unfortunately, you know, you shoot hundreds of hours of interviews and you got to wiggle it down to

[0:41:49 - 0:41:55] ▶

an hour and 40 minutes, hour and 45 minutes, maybe. That's a really tough decision, right? I mean,

[0:41:56 - 0:42:01] ▶

I call it killing your darlings. I mean, there's so many gems in there that you just can't squeeze

[0:42:01 - 0:42:06] ▶

into a movie and it's heart rate breaking. In fact, at some point, I think I might be, I mean,

[0:42:06 - 0:42:12] ▶

I'm not trying to, my own horn here, but I think I'm probably sitting on the biggest archive

[0:42:12 - 0:42:15] ▶

of interviews over the last 30 years because I've made so many documentaries and there's so many,

[0:42:16 - 0:42:20] ▶

yeah, so much content. I was actually talking to some, some people that I might have been talking to

[0:42:20 - 0:42:24] ▶

Jesse Michaels. Hey, if I had some resources, resources, not financial resource, but manpower,

[0:42:24 - 0:42:30] ▶

we can go through all my various tapes and interviews over the last three decades and make it

[0:42:31 - 0:42:36] ▶

all available to people. Put it out there for free. That was my next question. I was like, when are

[0:42:36 - 0:42:40] ▶

we going to see the YouTube mashup of all this because as a content creator, you're sitting on a

[0:42:40 - 0:42:46] ▶

pile of gold. I'm sitting on a pile of gold. You know, a lot of people are, I got the only

[0:42:46 - 0:42:49] ▶

interviews with them before they died. Wow. A lot of people. A lot of people. That's like Roswell

[0:42:49 - 0:42:54] ▶

stuff. Oh, yeah, Roswell. I was there filming in 1997 in Roswell. I was getting people talking about

[0:42:54 - 0:42:59] ▶

I remember it. I was kind of new to it. I was only in it for a few years at this time,

[0:43:00 - 0:43:04] ▶

but the one distinct advantage I had going to Roswell for the 50th anniversary is A, it was getting a

[0:43:05 - 0:43:09] ▶

lot of attention to the media and B, if people were in their 20s during the experience or maybe

[0:43:09 - 0:43:15] ▶

there were 30s, they were in their 70s and 80s. Right? So they were still around. They're still there.

[0:43:15 - 0:43:19] ▶

I must have talked to at least 15 people, maybe 20. My goodness. And a lot of them on camera. You

[0:43:20 - 0:43:25] ▶

know, I would just get them like, you know, just this guy was like, you know, talked about the mayor.

[0:43:25 - 0:43:30] ▶

I think it was the mayor of the time. He said he was white as a ghost. Saw some of the stuff and he

[0:43:30 - 0:43:33] ▶

said that they're not only threatened them. These, I heard this from at least 10, maybe 15 people

[0:43:33 - 0:43:40] ▶

that they were saying they're not only going to be picking my bones out of the desert, but your

[0:43:40 - 0:43:45] ▶

family's bones. That's what they told me. Do you think there's any credence to this is something

[0:43:45 - 0:43:52] ▶

I've been researching recently, but you know, just on that that you mentioned that you touched on

[0:43:52 - 0:43:57] ▶

there, the threatening of the families and everything else and the people who worked for these legacy

[0:43:57 - 0:44:02] ▶

programs. Do you think there's any validity to recruiting out of places like BYU and like Utah?

[0:44:02 - 0:44:10] ▶

I got to say I don't have much concrete or information on that. I don't know. Yeah, it's

[0:44:12 - 0:44:18] ▶

something I've just been recently turned on to because of the nature of their faith. They don't drink

[0:44:18 - 0:44:25] ▶

smoke. They're straight arrows. They have large families. And there's an article put out.

[0:44:25 - 0:44:30] ▶

Certainly makes sense. A few years back about the FBI, there was actually this went to court because

[0:44:30 - 0:44:36] ▶

there was a case made against the FBI that they were basically recruiting. There was discrimination

[0:44:36 - 0:44:45] ▶

for recruitment within these three letter agencies because they were solely pretty much recruiting

[0:44:45 - 0:44:49] ▶

Mormons. Wow. Yeah, yeah, because they got large families. They're never going to talk. They

[0:44:49 - 0:44:55] ▶

never drink. They never do drugs. And they're all into family and hiking and work and that's it.

[0:44:55 - 0:45:01] ▶

There's something really, and when you look at Dougway, you look at all the interesting places in Utah,

[0:45:02 - 0:45:09] ▶

it makes sense that BYU would be this breeding ground for these straight, arrow, white,

[0:45:09 - 0:45:19] ▶

male, intelligent, you know what I mean? That's the whole profile of these agents.

[0:45:19 - 0:45:23] ▶

It seems like people often mistake me for being like a Richard Dolan. You know, Richard Dolan has

[0:45:23 - 0:45:29] ▶

got a breadth of knowledge on cases far expanding way beyond anything that I'll ever have.

[0:45:29 - 0:45:35] ▶

The cases that I know, I know because I put boots on the ground. I went to China, I went to Australia,

[0:45:35 - 0:45:41] ▶

I went to Africa, I went to South America, I went to Russia, I went to, do you know what I mean?

[0:45:41 - 0:45:45] ▶

And I know those cases really well because I met the witnesses. I went to all those spots.

[0:45:45 - 0:45:49] ▶

I mean, Case in Point, Virginia, I mean, I went, I'm still going there. I'm going to go there probably

[0:45:50 - 0:45:55] ▶

next month for, let me, let me stop you there. So you said you're going to go there next month.

[0:45:55 - 0:46:00] ▶

Yes. Is that something, is this like a continuation or is this a personal project or is this like

[0:46:00 - 0:46:05] ▶

continuation really? Oh yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So you're saying there might be new developments.

[0:46:05 - 0:46:11] ▶

Oh, there's definitely new developments. Yes. That you're aware of already.

[0:46:11 - 0:46:14] ▶

Yes. Yeah. How long did it take? So some, I got, I got half guaranteed

[0:46:14 - 0:46:19] ▶

which is great. So if I come back with just that, it's going to be golden. Half the documentary.

[0:46:20 - 0:46:24] ▶

Sorry. I got half of the secured interviews that are, or it's, it's phenomenal. I understand.

[0:46:25 - 0:46:31] ▶

Yeah. That's like locked. Okay. That's good. Now I get the other half that you got to go there.

[0:46:31 - 0:46:37] ▶

It'll either happen or it won't happen. If it happens, it'll make world news. But I again,

[0:46:37 - 0:46:42] ▶

who knows? Who knows? This is a tough not to crack. But it's like, I'm not going to, I don't just give

[0:46:42 - 0:46:48] ▶

up on things. Case in point, look at Calvin. I mean, I was chasing that down for 20 plus years.

[0:46:48 - 0:46:52] ▶

I don't let it go. You know, and it's great too because other people like, like David Clark is

[0:46:52 - 0:46:57] ▶

amazing. We wouldn't be talking about Calvin. It wasn't for him. You know, but I never took my

[0:46:57 - 0:47:01] ▶

off that case. And as soon as I read that first article, I was like, oh my gosh, I gotta go to

[0:47:01 - 0:47:06] ▶

Scotland. I gotta cover that because it's amazing. And new developments are constantly happening.

[0:47:06 - 0:47:10] ▶

We put in the movie of the program. If you have any information on this case, like, you know,

[0:47:10 - 0:47:15] ▶

it's the same thing for Virginia. All these cases, I mean, they're, you know, people are starting

[0:47:15 - 0:47:22] ▶

to come out of the woodwork and people are starting to feel a little safer. We're living in an

[0:47:22 - 0:47:26] ▶

unprecedented time right now. Witnesses are starting to feel a little more comfortable. It's more,

[0:47:26 - 0:47:32] ▶

say, mainstream, but it's more acceptable to be talking about these things. I'd like to find

[0:47:33 - 0:47:38] ▶

the pilot who is flying that hairier jet. You think he got Bill film footage of it?

[0:47:38 - 0:47:45] ▶

Yeah, I'm sure he did. Yeah, he also got a visit. He probably got a visit too. But he flew all

[0:47:46 - 0:47:51] ▶

around and I was told that because if you look at that photograph, yep, got that perfect diamond

[0:47:51 - 0:47:56] ▶

or disc, right? And I was talking to Craig Lindsey, the RAF press officer. And I was like, what do

[0:47:56 - 0:48:00] ▶

those other five pictures look like? And he goes, James, he goes, they were so shocked. The

[0:48:00 - 0:48:06] ▶

the witnesses were so scared when this thing was hovered in the air. They would know what the hell

[0:48:06 - 0:48:10] ▶

was going on. And they only got the courage up when the military jet came in and that the military

[0:48:11 - 0:48:16] ▶

jet did according to Craig Lindsey, who interviewed them and saw all the other prints, is that they

[0:48:16 - 0:48:22] ▶

took the camera up from one of the bushes and they snapped five or six pictures as the military

[0:48:22 - 0:48:27] ▶

jet did a complete pass all the way around this disc, right? So whoever was flying that hairier jet

[0:48:27 - 0:48:34] ▶

got a really good view. Got the best view. Got the best view of it. flew, flew right towards it

[0:48:34 - 0:48:40] ▶

and then flew around it. And then went back to where's that radar data? Where's the visual like

[0:48:40 - 0:48:46] ▶

gun cam footage like, whoa, this case is just getting going here. That's an independent stay

[0:48:46 - 0:48:51] ▶

stuff right there. So let's just say that he was in his 30s because most fighter pilots are pretty

[0:48:51 - 0:48:55] ▶

young, right? So let's just say he was in his, let's say he was 35. Yeah. Okay. So what was

[0:48:55 - 0:49:00] ▶

that? How long ago was that case? 34 years? He'd be 65. Yeah. So let's say he's probably between

[0:49:00 - 0:49:08] ▶

65 and 75. That's a pretty comfortable. So you know what? And they're usually pretty healthy.

[0:49:08 - 0:49:14] ▶

So time. So he's probably, he's out there. And if you are out there and you're listening to this,

[0:49:14 - 0:49:20] ▶

please get in touch with us. You know, that's, it's something I'm learning from you as like a

[0:49:20 - 0:49:26] ▶

content creator as like a pseudo documentarian myself. I'm learning the tenacity that you have

[0:49:26 - 0:49:33] ▶

is just really important for this field because as someone who's used to in the past really

[0:49:33 - 0:49:38] ▶

churning out content and sort of like the second I press upload is the second I need to forget

[0:49:38 - 0:49:43] ▶

about it and focus on the next thing, right? So I have to reprogram myself to stick with something and

[0:49:43 - 0:49:49] ▶

not just go with the immediate thing and post it. I got to sit on things. I got to do my homework

[0:49:49 - 0:49:55] ▶

and go there and take my time. And I want to thank you for teaching me that. That's, that's a really,

[0:49:55 - 0:50:00] ▶

really valuable lesson for me. And sometimes it's okay. Like when I did out of the blue and I,

[0:50:00 - 0:50:06] ▶

I don't know if I told you this when I was like, you know, when is it, when is a project ever done?

[0:50:07 - 0:50:11] ▶

Right? Usually you're out of money, you're out of sting, you're exhausted, musy, it's out of money.

[0:50:11 - 0:50:15] ▶

But I remember we were probably four years into out of the blue, maybe three,

[0:50:17 - 0:50:22] ▶

had a screening and watching people fidget. That's bad. Look at their watches,

[0:50:23 - 0:50:28] ▶

checking out their phones, tying their shoelaces, you know. Screening, oh yeah. Not good. And

[0:50:28 - 0:50:34] ▶

they all left and they kind of patting me on the shoulder. Hey, nice job. James, I knew what yeah,

[0:50:34 - 0:50:38] ▶

was the film was not ready for prime time. So I went back at it for like, and I remember I fell

[0:50:38 - 0:50:42] ▶

into this really dark place like, oh, I could so jump. I was like, oh, you feel like you're just

[0:50:42 - 0:50:48] ▶

climbing this mountain is never going to end like, I'm in a ring with a monster in front of

[0:50:48 - 0:50:54] ▶

your head. I had a, had a win the next round, right? And I sank down into the couch after the

[0:50:54 - 0:50:58] ▶

screening. I got really depressed and I slept with my clothes on at my dad's house. Then I work

[0:50:58 - 0:51:03] ▶

up the next morning. I was like, pick myself up with the boot straps and go back at it. So I spent

[0:51:03 - 0:51:07] ▶

two more years on out of the blue. It was a lot better. I got it to a much better place. But it

[0:51:07 - 0:51:12] ▶

still wasn't quite where I wanted it to be. But I remember my partner, Boris and his wife is

[0:51:12 - 0:51:18] ▶

yelling me that he was in a fetal position crying because we were pushing each other so hard and

[0:51:18 - 0:51:22] ▶

we were broken. She's like, you're killing my husband. You know, she was really angry with me.

[0:51:22 - 0:51:27] ▶

Looking at me like I'm in a devil. You know, so I was like, okay, I better, better release this

[0:51:27 - 0:51:30] ▶

movie. But I released it in the back of my mind. I was like, that movie is not done.

[0:51:30 - 0:51:35] ▶

And then I got a letter in the mail three years later. I sold it to NBC Universal and they were like,

[0:51:36 - 0:51:39] ▶

Mr. Fox, just wanted to inform you. We decided not to be new or broadcast option. I was like,

[0:51:39 - 0:51:44] ▶

yes, I owned it again. So I got it back and then I went back at it for two more years like that.

[0:51:44 - 0:51:50] ▶

Wow. And then there was still wasn't quite what I wanted it to be. But it was a lot better.

[0:51:50 - 0:51:54] ▶

And then I tried it again with a with I know what I saw. Sold I know what it saw. It was a two-hour

[0:51:54 - 0:51:59] ▶

special to the history channel. Again, broke broke so broke. I could barely even afford to pay attention

[0:51:59 - 0:52:05] ▶

when I finished that. It was so broke. And I remember I was my credit card was maxed out. And I had

[0:52:05 - 0:52:10] ▶

I had a I had like a $70,000 credit card debt. And I was so like barely making that monthly payment,

[0:52:10 - 0:52:17] ▶

right? And I mean, barely making my this get in my teeth. And I was like two days late. And they

[0:52:17 - 0:52:22] ▶

jacked up my interest rate to double or triple whatever it was. And I called the company and I was

[0:52:22 - 0:52:27] ▶

like, you guys, what are you doing? Are you trying to force me to like go belly up on this? I was

[0:52:27 - 0:52:33] ▶

like default on my loan. I said, I was barely making the payment at that rate. And now you just triple,

[0:52:33 - 0:52:39] ▶

you know, so this was all going. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So I got the I got the yeah,

[0:52:39 - 0:52:44] ▶

kicking you while you're down. And like so I got I got the I know what I saw sold in the back of my

[0:52:44 - 0:52:48] ▶

mind. I was like, it's not what I wanted it. You know, you've always had that. You've always had

[0:52:48 - 0:52:52] ▶

that. Was not done. Not satisfied. It wasn't like, you know, you have a concept in your mind. It's

[0:52:52 - 0:52:58] ▶

something that you do, whether it's a painting or maybe a studio space or maybe just whatever

[0:52:58 - 0:53:04] ▶

project it is, you know, when you have that, you have a division, the vision, you know, and you

[0:53:04 - 0:53:08] ▶

just said, you set out to make that happen to. And sometimes it aligns with the vision. And sometimes

[0:53:08 - 0:53:13] ▶

it doesn't. In my case, it kept not. And I was like, God, I went through my 20s and I went through

[0:53:13 - 0:53:19] ▶

my 30s and I hit 40. And I was like, my gosh, I took a couple years off UFOs. And I did a film

[0:53:19 - 0:53:26] ▶

on the BP oil spill. I just stepped up to you. I just needed a break. And then when I hit 43,

[0:53:26 - 0:53:31] ▶

I was like, all right, I'm going at it one more time. And that's when I did the phenomenon

[0:53:31 - 0:53:34] ▶

at eight years. And that is like arguably eight years, possibly the best documentary out there

[0:53:34 - 0:53:40] ▶

on the subject. So it's, I mean, that's and you know, and that that was the first time I went

[0:53:40 - 0:53:45] ▶

did it. This is it. Yes, you can feel it though. Watching that like I mean, it's it's perfect.

[0:53:46 - 0:53:52] ▶

I didn't watch it for two years. Oh, after I finished it. Because you were just sick of seeing the

[0:53:52 - 0:53:56] ▶

footage. Excuse me, it was so traumatic. I'm getting that film across the finishing line.

[0:53:56 - 0:54:01] ▶

And then right when I finished it, we are going to have for the first time in my whole career,

[0:54:01 - 0:54:05] ▶

we're going to have a theatrical release and the ink had barely dried on the contracts. And then

[0:54:05 - 0:54:10] ▶

COVID's coming, right? Right. And I was like, no, like no. And I remember my sister called me and

[0:54:10 - 0:54:18] ▶

she goes, she was kind of crying. We both were kind of crying. And she's like, it took a global pandemic to stop

[0:54:18 - 0:54:24] ▶

it. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. I'm randomly. No, I mean, it's fascinating to hear because you know,

[0:54:26 - 0:54:32] ▶

we don't get to hear this normally. We get to see the final product. And as someone who's

[0:54:32 - 0:54:37] ▶

creative, my final product is constantly out there and people don't really understand the work

[0:54:37 - 0:54:40] ▶

that goes behind it. And not only the work, the emotional sort of ups and downs that you have to

[0:54:40 - 0:54:47] ▶

put aside to get the work done. And that weighs heavy when the project ends because now you have

[0:54:47 - 0:54:53] ▶

to deal with all that compartmentalized baggage that you've been putting away. And it just hits you

[0:54:53 - 0:54:59] ▶

like a truck. And then you've got to somehow pick yourself up and do it again. And so it, you know,

[0:54:59 - 0:55:05] ▶

as a creator myself, it's commendable. I take my hat off to you. It's definitely something that

[0:55:05 - 0:55:09] ▶

isn't easy. And you know, on top of traveling and everything else and you know, there's just so

[0:55:09 - 0:55:16] ▶

many factors that go into making such a monumental project. And it doesn't go unnoticed. I want to

[0:55:16 - 0:55:22] ▶

know. Oh, thank you. My son, who you met, yeah, he went because, you know, he was born when he was

[0:55:22 - 0:55:29] ▶

when when when all he was born, I didn't even have a bank account because I know what I saw some

[0:55:29 - 0:55:35] ▶

tax issues happen. It was horrible. And I fought it. But in long story short, I remember like,

[0:55:35 - 0:55:41] ▶

I got a check for like $1,500 and I was so stuck that put it in the account. And I went to go get

[0:55:41 - 0:55:45] ▶

the money the next day to pay up my phone bill and all this other stuff. And and the woman,

[0:55:45 - 0:55:49] ▶

the teller is like, sir, you're zero balance. I said zero balance. I said, I made a deposit.

[0:55:49 - 0:55:54] ▶

Last night, I got to be in zero balance. She's like, well, you made it withdrawal. I said,

[0:55:54 - 0:55:57] ▶

I didn't make it withdrawal. Anyway. So so there's like three year period where I didn't have a bank

[0:55:57 - 0:56:03] ▶

account. I remember I was making the phenomenon and people were like, dude, you can't make a,

[0:56:03 - 0:56:07] ▶

you don't have a bank account. He's not going to have a bank account. What is wrong with you? You

[0:56:07 - 0:56:13] ▶

know, I was like, look, man, it is what it is right now. Okay. I'm just getting through it. I'm doing

[0:56:13 - 0:56:17] ▶

the best I can. I was like, yeah, I swear to God. That is, remember people over where you were.

[0:56:17 - 0:56:22] ▶

That's 10 years ago. Like what was that? A little over 10 years ago. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah,

[0:56:22 - 0:56:25] ▶

it's not crazy. That is crazy. Yeah. Um, all right. I got a few, I got a few other questions here.

[0:56:25 - 0:56:31] ▶

I want to get to before we get into some like my favorite colors blue. Okay.

[0:56:31 - 0:56:35] ▶

Dark midnight blue. Um, I wanted to talk about a little bit about, we, we touched on this

[0:56:38 - 0:56:45] ▶

earlier and you touched on with the men and black, how you were kind of uncomfortable with the

[0:56:45 - 0:56:49] ▶

term and black as a little cliche. Aside from that, what is one sort of mischaracterization or one

[0:56:49 - 0:56:56] ▶

misconception within the public's view of the phenomenon or UFOs that you would like to erase

[0:56:56 - 0:57:03] ▶

that if you could think of it, like I just erased it from people's mind. Couple. What, one run

[0:57:04 - 0:57:08] ▶

off the top? Why is it always happened in the desert or in the United States? Let's see,

[0:57:08 - 0:57:15] ▶

I cover a case in Australia, Africa, South America, Chile, like England, Russia, China, like,

[0:57:15 - 0:57:27] ▶

you know, Canada, Alaska across the United States. This is a global phenomenon. That's one thing

[0:57:27 - 0:57:33] ▶

for sure. Second thing is people think that that the, that the witnesses are just looking for a

[0:57:34 - 0:57:41] ▶

limelight. If people had a behind the scenes look at what it took for us to make a moment of contact

[0:57:41 - 0:57:47] ▶

and to get those people to come forward, we worked on them for years, years, just to find them.

[0:57:47 - 0:57:54] ▶

And then we'd meet with them and they're like, how did you find me? How did you know I was involved

[0:57:54 - 0:57:59] ▶

with that? I'm not gonna care how much money you offer me. It's never gonna happen. I'm never

[0:57:59 - 0:58:03] ▶

coming forward. And we'd work on them and work on them and work on them and work on them.

[0:58:03 - 0:58:07] ▶

And then some of them were like, you know, at the end of the day, I was like, we're gonna get

[0:58:07 - 0:58:10] ▶

an anonymous, you know, get them to appear anonymously. It's the better the witness, the more compelling

[0:58:10 - 0:58:16] ▶

the case, the less likely the people are ever gonna want to come forward. That's just a fact.

[0:58:16 - 0:58:20] ▶

And that's me in the field. Wow. Is there any, has there ever been a moment where it's just like

[0:58:20 - 0:58:26] ▶

slipped out of your hands? Where something that you, you were so close and it was like a big thing?

[0:58:26 - 0:58:31] ▶

What's one of those things that like slipped out of your hands? The footage, the alien footage.

[0:58:32 - 0:58:36] ▶

Of Virginia? Yes. You were that close? We had a hard drive in our hands.

[0:58:36 - 0:58:39] ▶

You had a hard drive in your hands. Are you kidding me? Not kidding you. But you didn't see the footage?

[0:58:39 - 0:58:44] ▶

No. You had the footage in your hands. See how I can talk about this. Holy.

[0:58:45 - 0:58:50] ▶

Well, okay. So, I want to talk about this without revealing the detailed questions.

[0:58:50 - 0:58:56] ▶

Of course. We're going back. We found, we talked to a number of doctors face to face that

[0:58:56 - 0:59:13] ▶

saw the footage. Okay. And not only saw the footage, but knew we're friends with the individual

[0:59:13 - 0:59:19] ▶

who took the footage. And this is just one in particular. That was on the medical side. That was

[0:59:19 - 0:59:23] ▶

on the doctor's side. And he managed on the hospital. So, he located, we went, excuse me,

[0:59:24 - 0:59:35] ▶

we went after the individual. Unfortunately, the individual had died.

[0:59:35 - 0:59:40] ▶

Horseback riding or something. I don't know, something happened. So, we went to the,

[0:59:42 - 0:59:45] ▶

and this was all spanned in over probably a two year period, maybe a little longer. We went to

[0:59:45 - 0:59:50] ▶

the individual's house and talked to the wife. And the wife was somewhat dismissive initially.

[0:59:50 - 0:59:56] ▶

But then we went back with testimony from the other fellow doctors talked about it.

[0:59:56 - 1:00:02] ▶

And the wife was talking to our, my partner, Marco Leal, like the room was bugged.

[1:00:03 - 1:00:14] ▶

And was like, I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you mean.

[1:00:15 - 1:00:21] ▶

And we just stand and grab as a hard drive. I don't know. I'm not sure why. No. There's nothing here.

[1:00:21 - 1:00:27] ▶

It gives the hard drive to Marco. Now he's got the hard drive. What shape was it? Is it USB?

[1:00:27 - 1:00:33] ▶

It is an old, like, like, probably a 20 year old hard drive, maybe 15, 20 year old hard drive.

[1:00:33 - 1:00:38] ▶

And, but so we're like, oh my God. So, you know, we're hours outside of South Pallow and he's

[1:00:39 - 1:00:47] ▶

driving around and I'm like, dude, you need to, you need to get to someplace secure and back that

[1:00:47 - 1:00:52] ▶

thing up immediately. And I was like, you're driving around for four days in the air. No, like,

[1:00:52 - 1:00:56] ▶

this could be the biggest, so this is happening. And so it's encrypted and we're trying to get it like,

[1:00:56 - 1:01:03] ▶

nobody could do it in that area. So we took the drive back to South Pallow and we're having like

[1:01:04 - 1:01:09] ▶

high level technicians costing a lot of money, like the salaries for a lot of people for a whole

[1:01:09 - 1:01:14] ▶

month just to get, do a deep dive in the drive and do it. We were pretty convinced that we had it

[1:01:14 - 1:01:19] ▶

because we knew, we knew beyond a shadow of doubt that this guy is the one that shot it.

[1:01:19 - 1:01:24] ▶

According to all the other doctors that we talked to and all the other doctors that knew him and

[1:01:24 - 1:01:28] ▶

all the other doctors that saw it, that saw the footage and described it. And so we were overwhelmed

[1:01:28 - 1:01:35] ▶

with excitement. As you can imagine, got the whole thing encrypted and it wasn't there. So, but

[1:01:35 - 1:01:43] ▶

that let we thought we had it. We really did. We were, you know, so what that led to other,

[1:01:44 - 1:01:50] ▶

there are other individuals that we need to go see that live a couple of hours away from where

[1:01:51 - 1:01:59] ▶

that happened. And so that we're quite convinced. So we know, we know according to all these doctors

[1:01:59 - 1:02:05] ▶

who shot it, who had it for sure. And then he had a heart attack and died suddenly. So that footage

[1:02:05 - 1:02:11] ▶

somewhere, he didn't just throw that away and we knew what format that footage, you know, anyway.

[1:02:11 - 1:02:16] ▶

So that was once, then there was another individual. I can't release the name and the look,

[1:02:17 - 1:02:22] ▶

but it's an official individual who had a photograph and I hadn't described to me what was seen

[1:02:22 - 1:02:27] ▶

in the photograph. And this is an official. This is not like a civilian. This is a, and we talked

[1:02:27 - 1:02:32] ▶

to this individual and it was like one of the aliens was alive. One was dead and there were a number

[1:02:32 - 1:02:36] ▶

of firemen and firemen as well as police officers are connected to the military in Brazil. So if

[1:02:38 - 1:02:45] ▶

you're working for the fire department, you're actually, you're actually a military personnel,

[1:02:45 - 1:02:49] ▶

right? You're the same thing for, for like radar control officers, you're still military.

[1:02:49 - 1:02:54] ▶

It's all like military police officer military. And so we interviewed this individual and

[1:02:54 - 1:03:00] ▶

and we talked to two people that he was friends with that that he showed the foot, showed the

[1:03:01 - 1:03:07] ▶

photograph to. And then I spoke to the individual who Leslie has the photograph and got this individual

[1:03:07 - 1:03:14] ▶

to describe what the photograph showed. And we thought we were going to get it that day, but we didn't,

[1:03:14 - 1:03:19] ▶

but again, this is an ongoing thing, but it was said it was one, one dead and one alive and that

[1:03:19 - 1:03:24] ▶

there were a number of firemen in the photograph posing with where they were in the background of the,

[1:03:24 - 1:03:30] ▶

yes, yeah, which aligns with some of the research that we'd done in terms of like how the

[1:03:30 - 1:03:36] ▶

cause there was, there were a couple of captures. There were, there were probably more than that,

[1:03:36 - 1:03:40] ▶

maybe maybe five or six, but we only really have two good solid leads on maybe two or three of

[1:03:40 - 1:03:47] ▶

the captures. One was with military police officer Marco Turezzi and the guy driving the car,

[1:03:47 - 1:03:52] ▶

air globes. And then there was another capture from the fire department with a net with it with like

[1:03:52 - 1:03:58] ▶

the, like new song catching wild animals. Yeah, they did that. And we talked to one of the

[1:03:58 - 1:04:02] ▶

individuals that was involved with that operation. And then there was another one that might have,

[1:04:02 - 1:04:07] ▶

that the entity might have been shot, who's heard people in the town describe gun gun shot go

[1:04:07 - 1:04:12] ▶

off and then something was carried out of the, of the forested area. So that was like three, I think

[1:04:12 - 1:04:17] ▶

we reported on two, maybe we reported on three in moment of contact, but there were some evidence

[1:04:17 - 1:04:22] ▶

from some of the research we talked to indirectly this guy, Ubudajada Rodriguez and Pecachini,

[1:04:22 - 1:04:27] ▶

that they were up to five entities that were, that were captured. But again, I don't know,

[1:04:27 - 1:04:32] ▶

we only had a solid lead on two or three of them. At what point, what was a lot? Yeah, that's,

[1:04:32 - 1:04:38] ▶

I mean, that is, that is disturbing. At what point in the investigation or in your documentary,

[1:04:38 - 1:04:45] ▶

did you, were you close to this information? Was this towards the end or was this like in the heart

[1:04:45 - 1:04:50] ▶

of it? Closer for the end. So back in like 2013, and I can talk openly about this now, and I

[1:04:50 - 1:04:57] ▶

have talked about it in the past, but this is like, you know, a lot of people wonder like what

[1:04:57 - 1:05:01] ▶

keeps you going on a 12, 13, 14 year investigation on something, right? Because let's just face it,

[1:05:01 - 1:05:07] ▶

whether you believe a UFO crash and live aliens were captured, I totally understand your

[1:05:07 - 1:05:11] ▶

ambivalence to believe that because it's, it's a big story. And, you know, um, but I would ask your

[1:05:11 - 1:05:18] ▶

audience if you can suspend judgment, imagine for a moment that it did happen, you know, it's a very

[1:05:18 - 1:05:22] ▶

significant event, right? So, but sometimes you doubt yourself, like particularly early on, like when

[1:05:22 - 1:05:27] ▶

I first heard about the case, I was like, there's no way that happened. There's no way live aliens

[1:05:27 - 1:05:30] ▶

walked around the town of Virginia and the whole world, not no, it's impossible. Sorry. I dismissed

[1:05:30 - 1:05:35] ▶

it for 10 years. Do we need to look into it? Being someone who who who's already done documentaries

[1:05:35 - 1:05:39] ▶

on UFOs, yes, you dismissed. Absolutely. Okay. So you can understand how esceptic my absolutely. Yes.

[1:05:39 - 1:05:44] ▶

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So I started looking to it, maybe 2011, and in 2013, I got an interview

[1:05:44 - 1:05:52] ▶

with Marco Leal with a Air Force general by the name of part, Jose Carlos,

[1:05:52 - 1:06:00] ▶

yeah, Jose Carlos, part, air force, Brazilian general. Excuse me.

[1:06:01 - 1:06:06] ▶

Sat down to interview. And there are a lot of cases that do, you know, it was calaurus that happened

[1:06:06 - 1:06:10] ▶

in the 70s. There's the nights of UFOs over Brazil in 1986, massive oversight scrambled military

[1:06:10 - 1:06:17] ▶

jets and press conference. A lot of great cases. And he's like, I can talk about this case, that case,

[1:06:17 - 1:06:22] ▶

you talk about Virginia, this interview is terminated, goodbye. And I was like, well, really?

[1:06:23 - 1:06:28] ▶

And he was very serious. Like, you know, and I had a Air Force Brazilian Air Force guy sitting

[1:06:29 - 1:06:35] ▶

down with us. I wasn't going to like jeopardize. So we didn't talk about Virginia. And then we

[1:06:35 - 1:06:40] ▶

rolled camera for however long we interviewed our and half, whatever it was. And at the end,

[1:06:40 - 1:06:46] ▶

shut all the equipment off, all the audio, and I walked up to him and I looked him in the eyes. I

[1:06:46 - 1:06:49] ▶

looked into his soul. And I was like, please. And Marco was sitting there right there with me. I said,

[1:06:49 - 1:06:55] ▶

I said, please. I said, I promise you on my life, there's no camera audio, nothing rolling.

[1:06:55 - 1:07:01] ▶

This is between you and me right here right now. Tell me about Virginia. And I'm looking in the

[1:07:01 - 1:07:07] ▶

eyes and he's like, preparing to leave. And he's got to drive away in form. And Marco's doing the

[1:07:07 - 1:07:12] ▶

same thing. I was practically like, fucking, looking at guys boots. I mean, I had never looked so

[1:07:12 - 1:07:16] ▶

deeply into someone's soul before. I wanted to know so badly. So he didn't say anything, he didn't

[1:07:16 - 1:07:22] ▶

respond. We followed him all the way back to the car. Marco was right there with me. He gets in

[1:07:22 - 1:07:28] ▶

the car. The door's still open in the back seat. The driver's sitting there waiting the engine's

[1:07:28 - 1:07:32] ▶

running. And he looks up at Marco and he goes, it happened. Close the door and off he went. I was like,

[1:07:32 - 1:07:40] ▶

fuck, Marco and I both were like, and I tell you like that kept us going. That was like that

[1:07:40 - 1:07:50] ▶

reignited our flame. You know what I mean? Yeah. Why would he say that to us? Yeah, no reason.

[1:07:50 - 1:07:57] ▶

No reason, man. And then he died a couple of years later. But that was like, you know, can I share

[1:07:57 - 1:08:03] ▶

that publicly and people go, yeah, sure, whatever, since the room, yeah, I get it. I totally get it.

[1:08:03 - 1:08:07] ▶

And I don't expect anyone even believe that that happened. But it happened to me and Marco. And

[1:08:07 - 1:08:13] ▶

that kept us going for another 10 years. That's one of my, one of my next questions actually.

[1:08:13 - 1:08:18] ▶

Have you ever come close to abandoning something and then what kept you going? Yeah. There you go.

[1:08:19 - 1:08:23] ▶

That is, that, I mean, that is like, you know, I have, I have this question I ask to people a lot.

[1:08:23 - 1:08:30] ▶

And I think this might be the answer to that. But I'm going to ask it anyways. But is there a moment or

[1:08:30 - 1:08:37] ▶

and not not the first moment, but a moment where you tell yourself this changes everything?

[1:08:38 - 1:08:45] ▶

Yeah. I mean, so I did this thing on Reddit recently. And it was basically the first time this

[1:08:45 - 1:08:53] ▶

woman Andrea put it on. I met her at the Soul Foundation. And she's like, Hey, I run this like

[1:08:53 - 1:08:58] ▶

community thing at Reddit. And I want to do this thing. It's never been done before. I want to

[1:08:58 - 1:09:04] ▶

get all the various platforms and communities and Reddit to all coalesce and get together and

[1:09:04 - 1:09:08] ▶

put together as one event and be supportive. And she did. She goes, can you get a couple of people

[1:09:08 - 1:09:14] ▶

that were part of the task force, part of the government investigation. I was like, okay, my two

[1:09:14 - 1:09:18] ▶

primary targets was was Len Val Logan and this guy Kirk McConnell and Kirk McConnell investigating.

[1:09:18 - 1:09:27] ▶

Never really prior here, 37 years experience center arm services and number of other things. You

[1:09:27 - 1:09:31] ▶

can look them up. But he really put a laser like focus on UFOs from 2017 to 2024. And he, I'll get

[1:09:31 - 1:09:40] ▶

to the relevance in this a minute. He had the distinct opportunity to sit down with so-called

[1:09:40 - 1:09:46] ▶

firsthand witnesses. And everyone's talking about the fact they want firsthand witnesses. And I

[1:09:46 - 1:09:50] ▶

get it. After David Grush testified under oath that we have a crash retrieval program. We got

[1:09:50 - 1:09:55] ▶

people working on technology. We got, you know, into biologics as he put it. Everybody wants those

[1:09:55 - 1:10:01] ▶

first handers. Well, according to McConnell, I think it was like somewhere between eight and 12

[1:10:01 - 1:10:06] ▶

first hand people have testified like had meetings in a gift behind closed doors, right? First

[1:10:06 - 1:10:11] ▶

handers, the ones that we all want to see in open one. I'm going to go.

[1:10:11 - 1:10:14] ▶

One's in the program. Yes. And so, um, so we had this reddit thing. And they were like, okay, so James,

[1:10:14 - 1:10:22] ▶

you're going to be on and you're going to have Len Val Logan and then we have Kirk McConnell.

[1:10:22 - 1:10:26] ▶

Kirk was a very busy guy. We're probably going to just focus primarily on him, but the first hour

[1:10:26 - 1:10:29] ▶

and then we'll switch over to Len Val Logan of Len Val Logan wants to stick with you for the

[1:10:29 - 1:10:33] ▶

second hour of great, you know, but we're going to do like, you know, Kirk, then we're going to

[1:10:33 - 1:10:37] ▶

do Len Val Logan. And then we're going to do, you know, you know, I was like, I'm far less important.

[1:10:37 - 1:10:41] ▶

These guys should. So anyway, so we start talking. And there were people asking him questions. And

[1:10:41 - 1:10:48] ▶

then I had this little chat with they said, if something pops up during this three hour thing,

[1:10:48 - 1:10:53] ▶

you can, you can, you can message us. And so I said, I got a question because I didn't talk about

[1:10:53 - 1:10:58] ▶

this one. And I said, you claim that you were sending the in a skiff with members of the Senate.

[1:10:58 - 1:11:10] ▶

I'm guessing Rubio and rounds and and Schumer pretty and that you guys met with firsthand

[1:11:11 - 1:11:17] ▶

witnesses, people that are directly involved with the program that are working on alien technology

[1:11:17 - 1:11:21] ▶

shit like that. Right. I said, can you can you describe what it was like to sit in that room?

[1:11:21 - 1:11:28] ▶

And like, like listen to someone that you believe was directly working on alien technology.

[1:11:29 - 1:11:35] ▶

Can you put me in that fucking please describe the atmosphere? What was it like? Did you look in

[1:11:35 - 1:11:42] ▶

the eyes of the senators? And he was like, wow, you know, and then he he put us in the room. It's

[1:11:42 - 1:11:49] ▶

all on tape. You can look it up on the reddit. I've actually put it on my my ex as well. I highly

[1:11:49 - 1:11:55] ▶

advise. I've seen I'll go see the clip of it here, but go watch this in its entirety at James

[1:11:55 - 1:12:01] ▶

C Foxx on X formerly known as Twitter and go watch that damn thing because my god, that's one of those

[1:12:01 - 1:12:06] ▶

moments. Can you put us in the room and tell us what the atmosphere felt like? It's a it's a very

[1:12:06 - 1:12:11] ▶

it's a tough thing to get your get your mind around. And to be confronted with it, you know,

[1:12:12 - 1:12:18] ▶

coming from coming from another another person whom you find credible based on their credentials

[1:12:18 - 1:12:26] ▶

and their clearances and their background and all that. You know, it it certainly it makes it

[1:12:26 - 1:12:36] ▶

hard to go to sleep at night, you know, for a good while. What did the senators do? They have a sort

[1:12:36 - 1:12:42] ▶

slack jaw to Paris as well or was it just no. I mean, I don't think any of us fell on the floor.

[1:12:43 - 1:12:52] ▶

You know, in in anguish or anything, but but it was very serious very serious and very sobering.

[1:12:53 - 1:13:02] ▶

And there was, you know, just wrapped attention to what was being said and trying to absorb it.

[1:13:02 - 1:13:13] ▶

But yeah, you know, they they they would take this information on board.

[1:13:14 - 1:13:23] ▶

Did you get the impression that these individuals were scared?

[1:13:23 - 1:13:26] ▶

Well, it varied. Certainly some in some instances. I mean, some people there was there was real fear. Yes, there was real real anxiety about speaking about what, you know, speaking out of what they had to say. Yeah.

[1:13:26 - 1:13:54] ▶

Yeah.

[1:13:54 - 1:13:55] ▶

Where they're disturbing to them. Yeah.

[1:13:56 - 1:13:58] ▶

Very disturbing to them. Yeah. And I asked him, what was it like like like afterwards? He was like, I had a hard time coming home and like processing, wrapping my mind around.

[1:13:58 - 1:14:10] ▶

Oh my god, this changes everything. And when I was investigating the Virginia case, I would I swear to God, I looked.

[1:14:10 - 1:14:19] ▶

I'm 99.9% sure that I look directly into the eyes of a gentleman who drove an alien around. I'm like, how do you process that? I was looking to his eyes for an hour and a half.

[1:14:20 - 1:14:31] ▶

Okay, I could see the intensity of it all. We tracked him down.

[1:14:31 - 1:14:35] ▶

And this individual had given an on camera statement right after it happened with the number of first hand people that were involved with the incident as an insurance policy that if anything happened to them.

[1:14:36 - 1:14:45] ▶

And all the researchers within the area knew there were 15, 20 copies of those tapes made back in 1996 that if anything happened to those witnesses that was going to be released to the general public. That was their insurance policy.

[1:14:46 - 1:14:57] ▶

So we'd seen that footage. I couldn't use it, but I'd seen it and it's wow. But my point is this is that Kurtz was describing the impact that that had on him.

[1:14:57 - 1:15:08] ▶

You know, that reality. It's like a distortion of reality. Like everything is not as it seems, right?

[1:15:08 - 1:15:14] ▶

This changes everything. And when I would come home from a month at a time investigating and I'm knocking on doors meeting with witness doctors, military guys, firemen like people that drove the, I mean, we were digging into this damn case. I wanted to know so bad.

[1:15:14 - 1:15:31] ▶

And I'd come home. And I couldn't really talk about it because I start like as soon as I started talking about it, people just look at me like I lost my

[1:15:32 - 1:15:43] ▶

mind, right? And I remember the last time I went, I got back and I had to see an end at my house with Leslie Cane. And I just gotten back from my last trip. I shot the whole movie.

[1:15:43 - 1:15:54] ▶

Excuse me. And they were like, oh my god, you just got back from Brazil. It's incredible. Oh my gosh, tell us about your trip. What happened? I love the smoothies and the coffees over there. It's a

[1:15:55 - 1:16:07] ▶

incredible place, isn't it? Did you go to Rio? What about that? Part of Cheels, Islands off the coast, you know, and I was either going, I think I looked into the face of a guy driving the

[1:16:07 - 1:16:17] ▶

alien around and a UFO crashed and live aliens walked through the town and they were captured. The Americans came in and got this, you know, and I was like, yeah, no, I'm not going to talk about any of it. They're like,

[1:16:17 - 1:16:30] ▶

you have to perfect opportunity. We're doing a profile on you. No, no, wait till the movie comes out because you're going to look at me like I need to up the the dosage of whatever medication them not on right now. That's seriously like.

[1:16:30 - 1:16:43] ▶

And but I guess what I'm trying to get at is that you come back from this, these experiences and your reality is so distorted. You're like, it's a post traumatic experience. It's a post-traumatic experience in Kirk had the same damn thing. Kirk and I had talked about that comparing notes.

[1:16:43 - 1:16:59] ▶

Like he would come back. He would try to tell certain things to his wife and his wife's looking in like, honey, have you lost it? Are you okay? Like, you know, that's how profound. Experiences are because not only do the effect. Experiences, they affect those who talk to experiences. That's how profound. That is.

[1:17:00 - 1:17:19] ▶

I mean, that's incredible that it had that effect on a second hand witness, right? Oh, yeah. This is insane. This is, I mean, and I'm getting that feeling just talking to you.

[1:17:20 - 1:17:31] ▶

Like, I'm three people removed from this guy now, but I'm still enthralled and I'm like, I'm projecting my own self there and how would I feel and what would I do and how do I feel about this now?

[1:17:33 - 1:17:44] ▶

And it's proof. Yeah, it's seismic.

[1:17:44 - 1:17:47] ▶

You know, I remember talking to various composers for, I got a great length to put, I don't do canned music for my films. I spent a lot on the score.

[1:17:51 - 1:18:05] ▶

And I remember describing to a couple of different composers, Mateo and this guy, Chris Hogue is amazing guy.

[1:18:06 - 1:18:14] ▶

I say, just imagine you guys imagine taking the cloth of reality and just tearing it right apart, right? Like, I want it. I want, I want the audience to be where that individual was when they made face to face contact,

[1:18:15 - 1:18:33] ▶

allegedly with this alien creature, right? I want it to be the most unfamiliar feeling of intensity and mystery and intrigue. And do you know what I mean? And alien. And I say alien is sort of outside of our world in the sense that it's so foreign. You don't even know what you're looking at, right?

[1:18:33 - 1:18:54] ▶

Like you don't even know how to process what you're looking at. Put me there, put me there with that score. In particular, I remember when the children had face to face contact, you know, in Ruiz and Bobway or when the, again, the children had face to face contacts. Like when you made eye contact with that creature, god damn it, I want to be there. Yeah, where to feel like what kind of communication took place did communication day place did time stop.

[1:18:54 - 1:19:22] ▶

Could you hear anything and you want the audience did you feel yes, I want the audience to feel that I want to feel that yeah, I want to be there. That experience is so profound, you know, so I always remember I like take reality and just rip it all apart. And I want to feel so.

[1:19:23 - 1:19:42] ▶

You know, just recreate that if you can. And it has to be with very unfamiliar sounds and things that just don't make any sense. Because that's, you know, love that right? Yeah, it's unsettling. Yeah, it's

[1:19:43 - 1:19:58] ▶

unfamiliar. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, sorry, me. And we, you know, we talked about this a little bit, but there had to have been times where

[1:19:58 - 1:20:10] ▶

there was information that was just maybe too controversial or risky to include. Did you ever, did you ever encounter any of those any of such periods of conversation that you were just like, this is I can't like or yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[1:20:11 - 1:20:29] ▶

How about in the program?

[1:20:29 - 1:20:31] ▶

Was there anything there that you had to leave out? Oh, lots of stuff I had to leave out.

[1:20:34 - 1:20:39] ▶

Like I mean, for reasons of like vacations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Everybody like particularly the Intel folks had to approve everything. Wow. And some even had to get a timer of the acronym DOPSER.

[1:20:40 - 1:20:54] ▶

Mm.

[1:20:54 - 1:20:55] ▶

But it's basically a pre publication approval. And I believe that everybody had to do that. A lot of the people that I interviewed had to do that.

[1:20:55 - 1:21:04] ▶

And then one instance I had to end up at the last minute, I had to delete a certain word that was mentioned in the film. And then you'll see it. Be peaked out. You know, and you know, there's also controversy. Yeah. I mean, we know what the word is. Yeah. Yeah. It's very 51. Yeah. But it had to be bleaked out. I had to do that. It's a strange. Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, that's a good compromise though. Yeah. Like whether like just bleep it out. You're like, but you don't need, but you can see him saying area 50. Yeah.

[1:21:04 - 1:21:32] ▶

Pretty much like, oh, what are you talking about? Yeah. I don't even read lips. And I was like, I don't know exactly what he. Oh, my God. And you just lay the image of the Google maps right over it. I'm like, oh, that's cute. That's cute that they asked him to so funny. Yeah. Interesting. But there has been times where like has it ever bummed you out where you're like really? Like, so I just, I just got some information on crash retrieval stuff recently that was like, oh, wow. And so I asked this individual that that I tried.

[1:21:32 - 1:22:02] ▶

And I went after this individual. It was in the middle of the not come to me. I had known about this individual, and I was for a long time. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. And finally we got, you know, and this individual shared some fucking wow stuff with me. So I said, hey, I'm about to do this whole circuit of interviews every time my films come out. I'll go the rounds and do the podcast and the radio interviews. Obviously, spread the words for my for my movie. Can I just say I heard it somewhere? No, no, no, no, no, no, not even.

[1:22:02 - 1:22:31] ▶

No, not even anecdotal. No, very adamant about that. No, they'll know. They'll know who's him. Yes. Whoa, or her or her.

[1:22:31 - 1:22:39] ▶

I'm trying to know who's them. Whoa. Yeah, isn't that funny? Yeah. So point two, because like that's specific.

[1:22:39 - 1:22:51] ▶

Yeah, that's a really that's an unknown piece of information. Yeah, date location. I see it's not like a broad sort of like we put it up on this type of trailer.

[1:22:51 - 1:23:02] ▶

It's specific. It is. Yeah, very specific with the evidence with with the yes, the bodies, the craft. I mean, yes. And it really jarred me like I'd see.

[1:23:02 - 1:23:12] ▶

And you know, I'm very open and I do documentaries and I mean, I'm on this personal journey where I'm just really curious and I keep wanting to get to the bottom of it.

[1:23:12 - 1:23:24] ▶

The more I dig, the more crazy it all kind of gets. I feel like, you know, I've been at it for 30 years now and I feel like almost dumber than I was 30 years ago.

[1:23:24 - 1:23:34] ▶

Who's that said, I have more questions today than I've ever had, right? That makes you wise, I think.

[1:23:34 - 1:23:39] ▶

But I'm sitting there going, what the hell is going on? And the one thing that I've really learned.

[1:23:39 - 1:23:47] ▶

Just because something sounds really outlandish and really unbelievable, don't have that knee jerk response of just quick dismissal.

[1:23:47 - 1:23:55] ▶

Because I've had it my whole career, Ruiz and Bobway, I heard about Ruiz and Bobway through the Steven Spielberg, right?

[1:23:55 - 1:24:06] ▶

Because I was making my first doc in the 90s, UFOs 50 years of denial. And I have, we had a mutual friend who was Jenny Yang.

[1:24:06 - 1:24:14] ▶

And I was just not even up to think I was in my 20s like, okay, I'm making a documentary of UFOs. Of course, Spielberg's going to give me an interview.

[1:24:14 - 1:24:21] ▶

So I went through Jenny Yang and she goes, but she goes, well, yeah, no, he's not going to meet with you.

[1:24:21 - 1:24:26] ▶

But he said, since you're doing a doc on UFOs, you should really look into this landing that happened in Africa at the school.

[1:24:26 - 1:24:32] ▶

And I was like, oh, I needn't happen at a school on broad daylight. And the alien got out of their little spaceships and talked to the kids, you know, sure.

[1:24:32 - 1:24:42] ▶

And I didn't even look in, I didn't spend one second looking into it. You know, that.

[1:24:42 - 1:24:48] ▶

Wow. And then same thing with, with Virginia, I had heard about Virginia.

[1:24:48 - 1:24:53] ▶

Well, the first time I heard about Virginia, I was, I was, I was mapping out out of the blue.

[1:24:53 - 1:24:59] ▶

And I had this partner, Tim Coleman, British guy, very smart. And Tim's like, you know, I was like,

[1:24:59 - 1:25:06] ▶

bandwaters, let's look into that, to the, you know, March 13th, you know, Phoenix lights.

[1:25:06 - 1:25:12] ▶

Let's look into these are the various cases.

[1:25:12 - 1:25:17] ▶

Roberson panel, 52 capital. And then he goes, oh, mate, this is absolutely amazing crash case. It took place in Brazil.

[1:25:17 - 1:25:27] ▶

I don't think he used the word Virginia, that was a Brazil. And these bloody aliens walking around in the town.

[1:25:27 - 1:25:32] ▶

And I looked at them like, and I, I thought to myself, I picked the wrong partner.

[1:25:32 - 1:25:37] ▶

Oh, no. This guy, this guy's, this guy's a freak. He's lost his marbles. Like what was I thinking?

[1:25:37 - 1:25:42] ▶

Like he came across as really grounded, pragmatic, intelligent. And yet, and I was, I had a really hard time,

[1:25:42 - 1:25:49] ▶

like even keeping him as a partner because I was so concerned about his mental state of health.

[1:25:49 - 1:25:53] ▶

Like that he wanted me to actually go investigate a case where live aliens are walked to the other place.

[1:25:53 - 1:25:58] ▶

This guy's clearly lost his mind. He's, he's gone out way on the deep end.

[1:25:58 - 1:26:03] ▶

Didn't look into that case for at least 10 years. And then I remember the next time I heard about Virginia was 2011.

[1:26:03 - 1:26:10] ▶

So that would have been at least 11 years later, probably 12.

[1:26:10 - 1:26:15] ▶

But and it was a guy Jeff Stagansky and you can look him up.

[1:26:15 - 1:26:19] ▶

Very high up in the food chain in the entertainment industry, like former head of Sony.

[1:26:19 - 1:26:24] ▶

And he's always been extremely helpful to me over the years. And this is a funny connection about that, which I can talk about in a minute.

[1:26:24 - 1:26:32] ▶

But he's like, I was going to, I was going to Brazil. I got invited to go speak in Brazil at a conference.

[1:26:32 - 1:26:38] ▶

And he goes, Oh, James, you're going to Brazil. Fantastic. You look into the Virginia case. I was like, the what? What case?

[1:26:38 - 1:26:44] ▶

Don't you know, with the UFO crash and live aliens, I was like, oh God, not this again.

[1:26:44 - 1:26:49] ▶

So I told Jeff, I said, there's a lot of respect for him. And he was very helpful for me.

[1:26:49 - 1:26:53] ▶

And I was going to like burn that bridge. But I was like, sure, Jeff. Yeah, I'll, oh, yeah, I'll definitely look into that while I'm over there. Yeah, sure.

[1:26:53 - 1:26:59] ▶

Click. Yeah, that ain't going to happen. And then I got to Brazil and then I ended up meeting some witnesses, whatever.

[1:26:59 - 1:27:05] ▶

What was the guy? So I asked Jeff one time. This is interesting.

[1:27:05 - 1:27:10] ▶

And you're going to have to help me get the name of this guy because I'm trying to remember he was in smoking the bandit. He was, he was the pool.

[1:27:10 - 1:27:16] ▶

The pool shark that played a new man. Yeah.

[1:27:16 - 1:27:21] ▶

You know, the guy I'm talking about. Come on. I know. Right? So famous, very famous. Yeah, everyone in Ilcom goes in a city.

[1:27:21 - 1:27:31] ▶

But he worked on a movie with him way back in the day. And he apparently pulled Jeff aside and said, Jackie Gleason.

[1:27:31 - 1:27:39] ▶

And Jackie Gleason said to Jeff, according to Jeff told me this, I don't care what anybody ever tells you.

[1:27:39 - 1:27:45] ▶

I know for a fact that UFO is real and the government has definitive proof of that. And he told him that, but he didn't give him specifics like I was taken out by the president, whatever.

[1:27:45 - 1:27:55] ▶

But he said that to Jeff way back. Wow. It might have been the 70s. Yeah, off the record. Yeah, just like.

[1:27:55 - 1:28:01] ▶

I'm asking like, is so you know, like don't no matter what anybody tells you that no 100% I'm telling you 100% have you ever have you ever looked at a case.

[1:28:01 - 1:28:11] ▶

And just felt in your gut that it was real despite the lack of evidence like recently has there has there been anything, you know, despite there's lack of evidence.

[1:28:11 - 1:28:20] ▶

But has anything told you man, this feels like it might have happened. Is there anything like that recently that's.

[1:28:20 - 1:28:26] ▶

Recently recently recently like in the last maybe 10 years says there ever been something that you're like there's not a lot here. Yeah, something tells me.

[1:28:26 - 1:28:35] ▶

Oh, hair is pretty good. Yeah, the airport.

[1:28:35 - 1:28:40] ▶

2006. I think that was. Yeah, that's pretty compelling. We don't have a photograph. A photograph was taken. Yeah, apparently.

[1:28:40 - 1:28:47] ▶

And it's out there somewhere. It's got to be more than one to. Oh, yeah, I'm sure I'm sure it had cameras. I mean, there's cameras everywhere.

[1:28:47 - 1:28:53] ▶

Yeah, and I was actually going to go investigate that case. I was I was doing pickup interviews for the time it might have been out of the blue.

[1:28:53 - 1:29:01] ▶

But I think eventually transitioned into and I know what I saw. And I was in Phoenix. And it was late 2008 late 2008. I was in Phoenix and I was doing pickup interviews of that massive flyover new new witnesses were coming forward.

[1:29:01 - 1:29:19] ▶

I will go on camera. Families that were on their lawn line on their backs watching this boomerang shaped craft. They said it was so big. It took minutes to pass over them moving super slowly.

[1:29:19 - 1:29:31] ▶

And the apartment of the metal and.

[1:29:31 - 1:29:34] ▶

I was doing follow up interviews for that for a film idea. I know what I saw. And then I was going to go to Oh, hair. And I had. I was in touch with a couple of people united airlines. And there were like maybe going to consider going on camera.

[1:29:34 - 1:29:46] ▶

I know if I disguise there, you know, they're, but that was all I could get on it. But I was like, wow, this is really compelling. And then I got a phone call on a mass sighting that took place at Stephenville, Texas, Dublin, Stephenville.

[1:29:46 - 1:29:57] ▶

And so I canceled my trip to Oh, hair. And which would have been really cool because it only happened two years.

[1:29:57 - 1:30:03] ▶

I and who knows maybe what what a a is like.

[1:30:03 - 1:30:06] ▶

Who knows who knows what I would have come up with right because I know that photograph exists.

[1:30:06 - 1:30:11] ▶

Like who took the photograph where did that photograph go? I picked as an MIB story behind that photograph. You know what I'm saying? They probably, they probably got in there.

[1:30:11 - 1:30:19] ▶

So I had a whole camera crew ready to go. So we jumped on a plane and poo went went to Steve Stephenville, Texas. It was amazing. And that was like, I mean, the whole time they had a.

[1:30:19 - 1:30:29] ▶

I had a town hall meeting like the town was all there like it was a big deal. And the night before. So I flew my crew to Stephenville, Texas. And I flew to New York and I went on their king live.

[1:30:29 - 1:30:42] ▶

And so about that case. And of course I hadn't had boots on the ground yet. So I didn't really know what I was talking about. But I was like, you know, did exhibit a technology to, you know, it was massive and no air disturbance ability to hover outside the like of an eyeball.

[1:30:42 - 1:30:56] ▶

Well, and so when I arrived in that air live, when I arrived like the next day of the day, yeah, probably the next day 24 hours later. There's a little funny side note to that. I can tell you or not, but the whole town knew who I was because I was on Larry King the night before. Wow. So I suddenly like arrived and they were like, so I'm

[1:30:56 - 1:31:15] ▶

God, you know, just box. I had access to everybody. I never really wanted to meet you know, and that's that's that's when I got to meet probably one of my best one of the best witnesses ever. And that's Ricky sorrows to this day is one of the most compelling.

[1:31:15 - 1:31:28] ▶

A, he didn't want to come forward. It took me eight months to get him to finally go on camera. Wow. And he was one of the gun. He was one of the gun. He started with the craft and examined the metal of the craft through his scope.

[1:31:28 - 1:31:39] ▶

And he almost pulled the trigger to see if the bullet was going to ricochet off it or something, but he said it was a metal worker. And he said like it didn't have any rivets or welds or folds like it was just like a mold. And then he talked about these recessed cones. I mean, Ricky sorrows is one of the top witnesses. I mean, how many people do you know that stood under a UFO that was so big. He couldn't see the edge of it in any direction.

[1:31:39 - 1:32:03] ▶

And that's he goes. You could have landed an airplane on that damn thing. That's a ceiling outside. And yeah, and when it took off, he said, had I blinked, I would have missed it. And it said it went from a hover right above his head. And it went out for an angle like this. He goes, it didn't go like this. It just went like this. And I said, well, describe the speed. He goes, had I blinked, I would have missed it.

[1:32:03 - 1:32:24] ▶

It went from here to the stars in the blink of an eye.

[1:32:24 - 1:32:28] ▶

You know, I seen no nuts, boats, rivets, seams, no welds. None of this. It looked like a piece of sheet metal.

[1:32:28 - 1:32:39] ▶

You know, it wasn't shiny. It was a dull. I don't know what you call it in the map, finished maybe.

[1:32:39 - 1:32:47] ▶

And this is what I had a hard time with. If something was to leave in my mind, it should pivot up and go like an airplane would. This did not do that.

[1:32:47 - 1:33:00] ▶

This stayed completely flat. And it went at a 45 degree angle away. And it took off at such a high rate speed that no one described it as if I would have blinked. I would have thought it just disappeared.

[1:33:00 - 1:33:14] ▶

Whoa. Great case. He got spooked too. He got very spooked, very, very spooked.

[1:33:14 - 1:33:20] ▶

There's a common thread here than this in this interview.

[1:33:20 - 1:33:23] ▶

Big tough Texan arm to the teeth. Yeah. And he was spooked. How did that happen?

[1:33:23 - 1:33:27] ▶

Well, there were there were a number of things that were happening to him at the time. And that's probably one of the reasons why he wouldn't he.

[1:33:27 - 1:33:32] ▶

He met with me and he would tell me what happened. He took me to the forest. He took me to the location where it happened.

[1:33:32 - 1:33:38] ▶

I was like, oh my god, this guy's testimony is golden. Like this is so rare that you get to talk to somebody who stood under a UFO and examined it with a scope like.

[1:33:38 - 1:33:49] ▶

Whoa, right? I mean, you don't get that many moments and your entire 30 year career. I was like, this guy is amazing.

[1:33:49 - 1:33:56] ▶

He was like the military was flying over with the helicopters flying over his house all hours of the morning.

[1:33:56 - 1:34:02] ▶

He said he was running out in his underwear and shotgun. He was like, they'd light him up like daylight spotlight. He called the local Air Force base.

[1:34:02 - 1:34:08] ▶

He said, you guys got to stop flying your your helicopters over my house. And they said, that's our airspace. We'll do it the hell we want.

[1:34:08 - 1:34:16] ▶

And we suggest you stop talking about what you saw. That's what they said to him. And I talked to the police.

[1:34:16 - 1:34:22] ▶

I mean, that's a whole nother store. I don't know if we're going to go down that whole level. But it's you could check it out. I know what I saw is out there. You can watch it. It's amazing case. Amazing case.

[1:34:22 - 1:34:31] ▶

That sounds incredible. Before we get into first of all, thank you for sharing all this is amazing. This is I can do this all day.

[1:34:31 - 1:34:39] ▶

I do want to eventually get into some questions. So we have interns here. We call them interns at area 52 and they pay a monthly subscription.

[1:34:39 - 1:34:47] ▶

And we take some of their questions, which we're going to ask you in a second. But before I get into that, I got I got two questions to get through here.

[1:34:47 - 1:34:54] ▶

Yep. And I really want to get through these. One is a little lighthearted and one is something we touched on the top of this episode.

[1:34:54 - 1:35:00] ▶

But first is what just for anyone out there, what TV show or movie or like fictional made thing. Do you think in your opinion is the most closely related to the phenomenon?

[1:35:00 - 1:35:14] ▶

Those encounters with the third kind. Yeah. Yeah. And is that because of the tie in with Heinrich? Yes. And you know, Valet and you look at those you look at even the description of the entities.

[1:35:14 - 1:35:25] ▶

Those came directly out of project blue with files. Wow. And like you know Spielberg's little way of of saying that is having you know Heinrich have a camera.

[1:35:25 - 1:35:35] ▶

You know, you see a parent smoking a cigar right or a pipe. I think he was smoking a pipe. Yeah. Yeah. During the encounter. But even down to Richard drive his face being burned.

[1:35:35 - 1:35:44] ▶

Those came right out of you know, closing count. So yeah, closing count of the first kind right you see you off a close kind of the second time.

[1:35:44 - 1:35:50] ▶

It interacts with the environment, burn someone's face. He was in Prince the Ground effects plant like whatever radar photographs. And then you got closer.

[1:35:50 - 1:35:58] ▶

And so that was the kind of kind. Well, those came directly out of you know, he was a consultant. As was Jacques Valet. You know, and Jacques Valet, his character was portrayed.

[1:35:58 - 1:36:08] ▶

And he was talking a lot of witnesses. That's what I saw. I saw that exact or or I saw that, you know.

[1:36:08 - 1:36:14] ▶

So those that was the most realistic in my opinion to film. Yeah, ever made. And again, those came right out of. I don't know about the chandelier, but yeah.

[1:36:14 - 1:36:24] ▶

And then the other stuff. Well, the chandelier I've heard of. I have someone who's had a picture of something similar, which is interesting.

[1:36:24 - 1:36:31] ▶

But yeah, it is interesting. How much do you think Spielberg knows? It's guys a fan, dude. He's been putting out consistent UFO ET. No question.

[1:36:31 - 1:36:43] ▶

No question. I actually have a letter from Spielberg that was written to Larry King about me in my movie. Well, yeah.

[1:36:43 - 1:36:53] ▶

I could probably. Yeah. Um, excuse me. Remind me. I can get you a copy of it. Great. So.

[1:36:53 - 1:37:03] ▶

Larry King. I don't talk about this that often. I'll talk about it now because I told Spielberg's publicist. I think it was named me the second that I was planning on going public.

[1:37:03 - 1:37:16] ▶

Unless I heard from him, I'm going public with it because I sat on it for 10 years.

[1:37:16 - 1:37:21] ▶

Larry King had sent a copy of a rough cut of I know what I saw to Steven Spielberg and it was like, hey, this is the real life closing cameras. You should check it out.

[1:37:21 - 1:37:30] ▶

And. And then.

[1:37:30 - 1:37:34] ▶

A couple days later, I get a call from.

[1:37:34 - 1:37:39] ▶

I was it. I got it. I got it. I got a call from an agency informing me that Steven Spielberg was going to watch my movie.

[1:37:39 - 1:37:49] ▶

It was kind of weird. Like I just got this call from the AC. It wasn't from Larry King's office. It was actually from someone at the same agency.

[1:37:49 - 1:37:59] ▶

They were like, Mr. Fox. It's one of you for me. This is so and so over. There's so and so agency that Steven Spielberg is about to watch your movie. And it was like 10 in the morning.

[1:37:59 - 1:38:07] ▶

Like really? Wow. God, that's cool. So I was like, well, let me know how it goes. And I called my dad. I was like, dad, you know, I can believe that Steven Spielberg's watching. I know what I saw right now. This is amazing.

[1:38:07 - 1:38:19] ▶

And it has like, well, come on down. Let's have tea together. So I went down to my dad's house and we had tea. And we're having tea and I'm like, Steven Spielberg's watching my movie right now. Like, whoa, you know.

[1:38:19 - 1:38:29] ▶

And then I get a phone call like two hours later, whatever. And Cesaria, I think her name was at the agency. And she's like, well, Steven watched your movie.

[1:38:29 - 1:38:42] ▶

Okay. Well, what happened? She said, well, he wrote a letter to Larry King. That was it. I said, he watched the movie. And then he wrote a letter to Larry King. She goes, yeah.

[1:38:42 - 1:38:54] ▶

I just wanted to let you know. I was like, okay, thanks. That about a week later, I get a call. I think it was every all Gallagher. Probably. She's like, you know, we got something for you. I was like, it came from Steven Spielberg. I was like, oh my gosh. Tell me what, you know, we're going to fat. We're going to FedEx it to you.

[1:38:54 - 1:39:15] ▶

So I was like, cool. Yeah. Give me the address. And like a day later, the, I live in a small town at the time. And the FedEx driver was like, Jim Fox, you're not going to believe this. You came right out to my door. He goes, you got a letter from Larry King. It's a FedEx from Larry King's office.

[1:39:15 - 1:39:32] ▶

I was like, yeah, I'm guess what? It's a letter from Steven Spielberg about a UFO dog. He goes, can I watch you open it? I was like, yeah. You know, so we sat there and I ripped the thing open.

[1:39:32 - 1:39:42] ▶

And there's a letter from Steven Spielberg talking about the movie, talking about he goes despite the fact that I've made so much attention to the phenomenon or, you know, UFOs, the subject matter, I unfortunately have never seen a UFO. And that is so unfair. I hope that you will continue reporting.

[1:39:42 - 1:40:00] ▶

So I had a quote from Steven Spielberg about my movie in writing. And his handwriting, the original letter. Yeah, I have the original letter. Yeah, it's so cool.

[1:40:00 - 1:40:10] ▶

It was typed and signed. And so, so I contact his publicist. Can't believe I can't remember his name right now. I'm sorry. And I said, I could look it up. And I said, hey, I've got, I said, when you use a, oh, we don't endorse movies. I said, no, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. I said, he already gave me the quote. I have the quote.

[1:40:10 - 1:40:33] ▶

I said, yeah, he goes, well, how did you, what do you mean you have the quote? I said, well, Larry King sent me the letter. Larry King gave you the letter. I was like, yeah, and I'd like to use it to, could you imagine having a quote from Steven Spielberg back in the day on a UFO.

[1:40:33 - 1:40:48] ▶

That's insane. Like literally, like, I remember this guy that I was working with goes, dude, that's the difference between here and the stars. Like that'll just catapult you into the. So, so my dad goes, well, you have the quote.

[1:40:48 - 1:41:01] ▶

Why don't you just use it? I was like, oh, dad, but I don't really want to burn bridge. You know, and so he's like, well, we would appreciate it if you didn't use that.

[1:41:01 - 1:41:10] ▶

So I was thinking to myself, like, all the attention here, we got this, like, fully independent in the trenches, document you filmmaker, like, you know, doing the best you can.

[1:41:10 - 1:41:20] ▶

And like, your support would just beat me in the world to me. And you like the movie and you said it. You found it really compelling.

[1:41:20 - 1:41:27] ▶

But you won't let me use it like publicly. So anyway, I was a little disappointed. And so I don't know, maybe like 10 years went by or something like that.

[1:41:27 - 1:41:36] ▶

And I sent him a letter. I sent him an email and we'd been corresponding a little bit. And I was like, hey, just so you know, I intend to go public with that letter to been 10 years.

[1:41:36 - 1:41:44] ▶

And unless you, unless I hear from you all soon, that's it's okay. And I didn't hear from him. So I publish it a lot of you. I put it out there. I should put it out there more recently. But I'll give it to you.

[1:41:44 - 1:41:53] ▶

That is so cool. That is amazing. And good, good for you. I think you made the right call, not bring it out like ethically. Yeah.

[1:41:53 - 1:42:01] ▶

I think he much your point. I think he knows how much that's worth. Yeah, putting his name on anything. You know what I mean? So, you know, and had he wanted to put his name on it, I think he, I think he would let you know.

[1:42:01 - 1:42:16] ▶

But I think that's, you know, it sounds to me like his way of sort of saying, hey, this is a great movie without saying, hey, this is a great movie.

[1:42:16 - 1:42:26] ▶

You know, with a weight of his endorsement would have been a type of changing typed and signed like that takes effort. That's not an email. It's not a text. It's not a DM. Yep. You know, so that goes a long way as, you know, as an aspiring filmmaker. I'm sure that

[1:42:26 - 1:42:40] ▶

Oh, I have a lot more. Yeah. I have it framed up. I will. Yeah.

[1:42:40 - 1:42:44] ▶

Last question before we get into the intern inquiries.

[1:42:44 - 1:42:48] ▶

So I'm sure we're rolling here. All right.

[1:42:48 - 1:42:52] ▶

At the beginning of this episode, I welcomed you into the skiff for the second time. Yeah.

[1:42:52 - 1:42:58] ▶

Because you recently got invited. Yeah. Into a skiff. Yeah. And I could say is that the Pentagon.

[1:42:58 - 1:43:08] ▶

So I went to the Pentagon initially. It was right across the street from the Pentagon. Okay.

[1:43:08 - 1:43:11] ▶

So I was going to have a presentation on the other side. And I had to do a 48 hour background check. And so basically, let's just say this is much as like, because I've been asked to not to reveal exactly why I went there, because it could interfere with the

[1:43:11 - 1:43:25] ▶

investigations that are happening, but we're both going after the same footage.

[1:43:25 - 1:43:29] ▶

And I'm helping them acquire said footage and I will be able to talk.

[1:43:31 - 1:43:33] ▶

I'm not trying to be sneaky or secretive.

[1:43:33 - 1:43:36] ▶

I just, I can't jeopardize those contacts and we're working together right now.

[1:43:36 - 1:43:40] ▶

And a lot of people think like, oh, well, now you're working with some people on the inside.

[1:43:40 - 1:43:43] ▶

Well, people are people and there's some good people and some bad people and some

[1:43:43 - 1:43:47] ▶

people that actually legitimately want this information out.

[1:43:47 - 1:43:50] ▶

Yeah.

[1:43:50 - 1:43:50] ▶

So I'm working with and there was an individual that I'm working with who's now in the

[1:43:51 - 1:43:57] ▶

outside.

[1:43:57 - 1:43:57] ▶

It wasn't the inside.

[1:43:57 - 1:43:58] ▶

And he pulled some strings and got me got me into a skiff with the current head of arrow.

[1:43:58 - 1:44:03] ▶

John Kosloski.

[1:44:04 - 1:44:05] ▶

Cause a lot.

[1:44:05 - 1:44:05] ▶

Yeah.

[1:44:05 - 1:44:06] ▶

Kuskoski.

[1:44:06 - 1:44:06] ▶

I had to do a 48 hour background check on me and I, if it was like a scene out of a movie,

[1:44:06 - 1:44:11] ▶

I remember like meeting up with the gentleman of just like the kind of guy that I expected

[1:44:11 - 1:44:16] ▶

to the suit.

[1:44:16 - 1:44:16] ▶

The haircut, the jawline.

[1:44:17 - 1:44:18] ▶

Like I mean, he was like quintessential.

[1:44:18 - 1:44:20] ▶

The guy could have been, you know, if had he had a dark suit on, it could have been an

[1:44:20 - 1:44:23] ▶

M.I.B.

[1:44:23 - 1:44:23] ▶

Almost.

[1:44:23 - 1:44:23] ▶

That's what I was going to care.

[1:44:23 - 1:44:24] ▶

I care.

[1:44:24 - 1:44:25] ▶

Yeah.

[1:44:25 - 1:44:25] ▶

Yeah.

[1:44:25 - 1:44:25] ▶

One day your friend on the next day of Spook.

[1:44:25 - 1:44:27] ▶

I'm sitting there walking through the halls and we go to the security and they're coming

[1:44:28 - 1:44:31] ▶

through everything I had because I was going to get a flight right afterwards.

[1:44:31 - 1:44:34] ▶

So I had all my bags and oh my god, they were going through everything and they did

[1:44:34 - 1:44:37] ▶

a background check.

[1:44:37 - 1:44:38] ▶

How are you feeling?

[1:44:38 - 1:44:39] ▶

I was feeling a little stressed.

[1:44:39 - 1:44:41] ▶

This is a big, this is a big deal.

[1:44:41 - 1:44:42] ▶

Big deal for me.

[1:44:42 - 1:44:43] ▶

Yeah.

[1:44:43 - 1:44:43] ▶

For for someone who's been trying to get to the center of the maze.

[1:44:43 - 1:44:46] ▶

Yeah.

[1:44:46 - 1:44:46] ▶

But I was trying to like, so, so I went through the security.

[1:44:46 - 1:44:48] ▶

I was a little stressed.

[1:44:48 - 1:44:49] ▶

I was like, shit, I don't think I have anything in my bag.

[1:44:49 - 1:44:51] ▶

They were coming through the lint.

[1:44:51 - 1:44:52] ▶

I mean, my god, they were going through everything.

[1:44:53 - 1:44:54] ▶

I was like, I don't think I have anything in there.

[1:44:55 - 1:44:57] ▶

I was thinking about something like, you know, so anyway, so I go do that.

[1:44:57 - 1:45:00] ▶

Then I get this badge.

[1:45:01 - 1:45:02] ▶

I'll show you.

[1:45:04 - 1:45:04] ▶

Yeah.

[1:45:05 - 1:45:05] ▶

It's like in this badge.

[1:45:06 - 1:45:07] ▶

And then I have to go there.

[1:45:08 - 1:45:09] ▶

They have these like glass tubes, maybe about this big around and the door would open.

[1:45:09 - 1:45:15] ▶

And only one person goes to the glass tubes and they had probably like, maybe five or six all along this wall.

[1:45:15 - 1:45:20] ▶

And you'd walk up to it and this door would open like to door open.

[1:45:21 - 1:45:24] ▶

He'd step in really two little feet mark.

[1:45:25 - 1:45:26] ▶

And then the other one would open and then you go through that.

[1:45:27 - 1:45:29] ▶

And then I had to walk over to the.

[1:45:30 - 1:45:31] ▶

What is that?

[1:45:31 - 1:45:32] ▶

I don't know.

[1:45:32 - 1:45:33] ▶

They scanning you.

[1:45:33 - 1:45:33] ▶

Is that like an airport?

[1:45:33 - 1:45:34] ▶

I don't know.

[1:45:35 - 1:45:35] ▶

I don't know.

[1:45:36 - 1:45:36] ▶

I'd already gone through the metal detector.

[1:45:36 - 1:45:37] ▶

I'd already gone to that old thing.

[1:45:37 - 1:45:38] ▶

Yeah.

[1:45:38 - 1:45:39] ▶

But this might be like, whoa.

[1:45:39 - 1:45:41] ▶

So I went through that and got the other side of that.

[1:45:41 - 1:45:44] ▶

And then I was like, excuse me.

[1:45:44 - 1:45:46] ▶

I was like, well, can I take a picture of the two?

[1:45:46 - 1:45:47] ▶

He goes, no, no.

[1:45:47 - 1:45:49] ▶

Takes me over to a series of lockers where I was supposed to get rid of all my camera stuff.

[1:45:50 - 1:45:55] ▶

And phone and electron, everything.

[1:45:57 - 1:46:00] ▶

And I was like, well, can I use the bathroom?

[1:46:00 - 1:46:02] ▶

Well, Quake, and when you use the bathroom and, you know, I had a little special pass.

[1:46:02 - 1:46:09] ▶

And I documented that special.

[1:46:09 - 1:46:10] ▶

Last second I had to.

[1:46:11 - 1:46:12] ▶

That came out and had to get rid of all my electronics.

[1:46:13 - 1:46:15] ▶

Then they came up just like just like in the movies, that big door.

[1:46:15 - 1:46:18] ▶

Look like a bank vault almost.

[1:46:18 - 1:46:20] ▶

Well, and the door, he opens the door.

[1:46:20 - 1:46:24] ▶

We walk in and it was like kind of like an office like offices and cubicles and

[1:46:25 - 1:46:31] ▶

hallways.

[1:46:31 - 1:46:32] ▶

And I was like, wow, I was thinking like a skiff would be more like a secured,

[1:46:32 - 1:46:36] ▶

like a little room with a table.

[1:46:36 - 1:46:37] ▶

Yeah.

[1:46:37 - 1:46:38] ▶

But the whole area was a skiff.

[1:46:38 - 1:46:39] ▶

Like all the people that are working in an arrow or just working in a skiff.

[1:46:39 - 1:46:42] ▶

Like it's one big skiff.

[1:46:42 - 1:46:43] ▶

Interesting.

[1:46:43 - 1:46:44] ▶

And for those who don't know, a secure eyes,

[1:46:44 - 1:46:47] ▶

compartmentalized,

[1:46:47 - 1:46:49] ▶

facility, information facility.

[1:46:49 - 1:46:51] ▶

Yeah.

[1:46:51 - 1:46:51] ▶

Yeah.

[1:46:51 - 1:46:52] ▶

There you go.

[1:46:52 - 1:46:52] ▶

Yeah.

[1:46:52 - 1:46:53] ▶

Nothing works in there.

[1:46:53 - 1:46:54] ▶

Anyways, right?

[1:46:54 - 1:46:55] ▶

Like none of this, nothing, nothing.

[1:46:55 - 1:46:56] ▶

No signal led line entering or exiting.

[1:46:56 - 1:47:00] ▶

Yeah.

[1:47:00 - 1:47:00] ▶

So anyway.

[1:47:00 - 1:47:01] ▶

So this gentleman's walking in.

[1:47:02 - 1:47:03] ▶

He's Air Force Office of Special Investigations.

[1:47:03 - 1:47:05] ▶

And so he walks me through this hallway.

[1:47:07 - 1:47:09] ▶

And when we get up to two doors in the hallway,

[1:47:10 - 1:47:13] ▶

there's a door on the left and a door on the right.

[1:47:13 - 1:47:15] ▶

The door on the right is closed.

[1:47:15 - 1:47:16] ▶

The door on the left is open.

[1:47:16 - 1:47:17] ▶

And there's like an all-blown, shaped table and probably two women and three men

[1:47:18 - 1:47:23] ▶

in suits nicely dressed, having a meeting.

[1:47:23 - 1:47:25] ▶

And I'm stopping.

[1:47:26 - 1:47:26] ▶

He says, wait, wait right here.

[1:47:26 - 1:47:28] ▶

I'm going to get somebody else.

[1:47:28 - 1:47:29] ▶

So I'm standing there in the hallway and I couldn't help but to look over to my

[1:47:29 - 1:47:33] ▶

left. And I'm looking over to my left and I'm fully eavesdropping in their

[1:47:33 - 1:47:37] ▶

conversations, right?

[1:47:37 - 1:47:38] ▶

I'm looking at them and what else I supposed to do, right?

[1:47:39 - 1:47:42] ▶

So I was like kind of eavesdropping and then they looked over at me and this guy

[1:47:42 - 1:47:45] ▶

got up quickly and abruptly and close the door in my face.

[1:47:45 - 1:47:50] ▶

But I was like, well, how could I not look?

[1:47:50 - 1:47:52] ▶

I mean, you know, they're having a conversation to give.

[1:47:52 - 1:47:54] ▶

I was the converter.

[1:47:54 - 1:47:55] ▶

I'm not going to ask you what they said, but was the conversation anything pertinent?

[1:47:55 - 1:47:59] ▶

Or was it just?

[1:47:59 - 1:48:00] ▶

No, I was just trying to, I was just tuning in.

[1:48:00 - 1:48:02] ▶

It was just really trying to listen.

[1:48:02 - 1:48:04] ▶

And I was, you know, let's check it out, you know?

[1:48:04 - 1:48:06] ▶

And guy, close the door, then, and then this other guy comes up, John Kosloski.

[1:48:07 - 1:48:11] ▶

Yeah. And he's like, I got a few minutes and we went into the skip.

[1:48:11 - 1:48:14] ▶

We went into this his office.

[1:48:14 - 1:48:16] ▶

And this other guy from Air Force Office, special investigations.

[1:48:17 - 1:48:19] ▶

I guess he's part of the task force as well.

[1:48:19 - 1:48:21] ▶

And I start talking openly about this other guy was there the entire time as well.

[1:48:21 - 1:48:27] ▶

John Kusklauski was only there.

[1:48:27 - 1:48:28] ▶

Kusklauski, but the other guy was the other guy was there the whole time, the whole time.

[1:48:28 - 1:48:31] ▶

So he was John, the Air Force Office special investigation guy was only there.

[1:48:31 - 1:48:35] ▶

Was there the whole time?

[1:48:35 - 1:48:36] ▶

John was only there for maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

[1:48:36 - 1:48:38] ▶

Interesting.

[1:48:38 - 1:48:39] ▶

But because you know, so I started talking about specific cases.

[1:48:39 - 1:48:43] ▶

I was like, where do these men in black come from?

[1:48:43 - 1:48:44] ▶

They're, they're, they have this omnipresence.

[1:48:44 - 1:48:47] ▶

They're global.

[1:48:47 - 1:48:47] ▶

Like who are they?

[1:48:47 - 1:48:48] ▶

And they didn't make any comments.

[1:48:48 - 1:48:50] ▶

I was like, I was told they're Air Force Office special investigation, but I don't know.

[1:48:50 - 1:48:53] ▶

And then I said, uh, I was like, well, you guys do know that, you know, obviously,

[1:48:55 - 1:49:00] ▶

the vast majority of these cases, you have reports and UAP reports can be explained

[1:49:01 - 1:49:05] ▶

down to conventional terms.

[1:49:06 - 1:49:07] ▶

I mean, it's like there's a, there's a residual 15 and 20% that clearly after

[1:49:07 - 1:49:12] ▶

exhaustive investigation defy a conventional explanation and those probably

[1:49:12 - 1:49:17] ▶

originate from a nonhuman intelligence.

[1:49:17 - 1:49:18] ▶

I mean, you guys know that, right?

[1:49:19 - 1:49:20] ▶

Like, come on, you got to know that.

[1:49:20 - 1:49:21] ▶

And John looked at me and he goes, James, I can't part my own hair without approval

[1:49:22 - 1:49:28] ▶

from the DOD and you can quote me on that.

[1:49:28 - 1:49:31] ▶

You can say we met and you can say that.

[1:49:31 - 1:49:34] ▶

Well, I was like, he was telling me my hands are tied.

[1:49:34 - 1:49:37] ▶

Yes.

[1:49:37 - 1:49:37] ▶

Doesn't matter what conclusions I draw.

[1:49:37 - 1:49:39] ▶

It was amazing.

[1:49:41 - 1:49:41] ▶

It's crazy.

[1:49:41 - 1:49:42] ▶

That's crazy that he allowed you.

[1:49:42 - 1:49:43] ▶

And he said to me, I didn't, I didn't say, Hey, can I quote you on that?

[1:49:43 - 1:49:46] ▶

He goes, you can, and you can quote, you can talk, you can say we met and you can

[1:49:46 - 1:49:50] ▶

say I said that.

[1:49:50 - 1:49:51] ▶

That's his way of telling you.

[1:49:51 - 1:49:52] ▶

Yes, that was his way of getting the word across.

[1:49:52 - 1:49:54] ▶

My hands are tied.

[1:49:54 - 1:49:55] ▶

Doesn't matter what conclusions I draw.

[1:49:55 - 1:49:57] ▶

Isn't that crazy?

[1:49:58 - 1:49:59] ▶

That is crazy.

[1:49:59 - 1:49:59] ▶

And I was talking about all the different cases.

[1:49:59 - 1:50:01] ▶

I was like, this case, that case.

[1:50:01 - 1:50:02] ▶

And then he had to go and then they showed me some, they showed me some stuff that they

[1:50:03 - 1:50:07] ▶

were going after.

[1:50:07 - 1:50:08] ▶

Right.

[1:50:08 - 1:50:09] ▶

They showed me some infirm.

[1:50:09 - 1:50:10] ▶

They, yeah, I got to see some stuff.

[1:50:10 - 1:50:12] ▶

And I was like, that's not, I was like, you need to contact this witness before you release

[1:50:12 - 1:50:17] ▶

that because that's not going to go down well.

[1:50:17 - 1:50:19] ▶

And I also said, you guys got to throw us a bone.

[1:50:19 - 1:50:21] ▶

You know, we're not going anywhere.

[1:50:22 - 1:50:23] ▶

This is coming out.

[1:50:23 - 1:50:24] ▶

It was amazing.

[1:50:26 - 1:50:27] ▶

I was still in touch with one of the individuals I texted this morning.

[1:50:27 - 1:50:30] ▶

Do you, do you have a,

[1:50:30 - 1:50:31] ▶

thank you for sharing that by the way.

[1:50:32 - 1:50:33] ▶

Yeah, yeah.

[1:50:33 - 1:50:34] ▶

Of course.

[1:50:34 - 1:50:34] ▶

And I felt like I was ever second.

[1:50:34 - 1:50:35] ▶

That's cool.

[1:50:35 - 1:50:36] ▶

Yeah.

[1:50:36 - 1:50:37] ▶

So cool.

[1:50:37 - 1:50:37] ▶

You know, first of all, it's really nice to hear that, you know, part of a,

[1:50:38 - 1:50:42] ▶

John Kosloski telling you that because

[1:50:42 - 1:50:44] ▶

arrows got a bad rap.

[1:50:46 - 1:50:47] ▶

Oh, yeah.

[1:50:47 - 1:50:48] ▶

So I think Patrick was exactly in, and you know, we're all kind of of the same mindset

[1:50:48 - 1:50:53] ▶

that are like, oh, this is just a big sci-op big disinformation thing.

[1:50:53 - 1:50:57] ▶

They're just going to slowly.

[1:50:57 - 1:50:58] ▶

They know the truth.

[1:50:58 - 1:50:59] ▶

They're not letting us know like this is the, this is the narrative.

[1:50:59 - 1:51:02] ▶

When you hear about arrow in the community.

[1:51:02 - 1:51:05] ▶

So to hear him sort of say, hey, I get it, but I can't do anything.

[1:51:05 - 1:51:12] ▶

Just that I feel is such a strong message that needed to be said.

[1:51:12 - 1:51:17] ▶

Yeah.

[1:51:17 - 1:51:17] ▶

So that's really important.

[1:51:17 - 1:51:19] ▶

And oh, yeah, one more thing is really cool.

[1:51:19 - 1:51:20] ▶

Okay.

[1:51:20 - 1:51:21] ▶

So John, sorry, the other gentleman, why am I, anyway, doesn't I wonder?

[1:51:21 - 1:51:28] ▶

I have it in my phone.

[1:51:28 - 1:51:29] ▶

And he said, you know, a little, a little factoid, something you might want to,

[1:51:29 - 1:51:35] ▶

you know, no, I was like, what's that?

[1:51:36 - 1:51:38] ▶

He goes, your film, the phenomenon is mandatory viewing.

[1:51:38 - 1:51:41] ▶

If you want to work for the UAP task force or arrow, you have to watch the phenomenon first.

[1:51:41 - 1:51:45] ▶

Get out of swear on my life.

[1:51:45 - 1:51:47] ▶

It's what he said to me.

[1:51:47 - 1:51:48] ▶

Isn't that cool?

[1:51:48 - 1:51:49] ▶

Dude, that is the coolest.

[1:51:49 - 1:51:51] ▶

I was like, wow.

[1:51:51 - 1:51:52] ▶

Yeah, I know.

[1:51:52 - 1:51:53] ▶

That's better than a Spielberg.

[1:51:54 - 1:51:54] ▶

I was like, my mother was awesome.

[1:51:54 - 1:51:56] ▶

It was so funny too, because I was like,

[1:51:57 - 1:51:58] ▶

man, I'm in the belly, I'm in the belly of the beast right now.

[1:51:59 - 1:52:01] ▶

Yeah.

[1:52:02 - 1:52:02] ▶

And you're, and you're helping to shape the narrative.

[1:52:02 - 1:52:05] ▶

It felt so like, but then I realized like people are people.

[1:52:05 - 1:52:09] ▶

I don't have good people on the inside.

[1:52:09 - 1:52:11] ▶

People that really want to get, look in their habit, because people go, oh, you know,

[1:52:11 - 1:52:15] ▶

they just think government, they think evil, they think politician, they think evil.

[1:52:15 - 1:52:19] ▶

Yeah, there are some really good people on the inside.

[1:52:19 - 1:52:21] ▶

There are.

[1:52:21 - 1:52:21] ▶

Look, we have people dating back to the 1940s that wanted this stuff to come out, right?

[1:52:21 - 1:52:26] ▶

Yeah.

[1:52:27 - 1:52:27] ▶

I'm just Jesse Marcell.

[1:52:28 - 1:52:29] ▶

Yeah, the guy that ran a project blue book during the incursion over during the invasion,

[1:52:29 - 1:52:36] ▶

but the two consecutive weekends in July of 1952,

[1:52:36 - 1:52:39] ▶

the guy that was ahead of blue book at the time wrote a book about it.

[1:52:40 - 1:52:43] ▶

I mean, there are people that have been out the former head of the CIA,

[1:52:43 - 1:52:46] ▶

Roscoe Hillencoder.

[1:52:46 - 1:52:48] ▶

It was 60s major general, um, black and honest name.

[1:52:48 - 1:52:51] ▶

Well, John Stanford,

[1:52:51 - 1:52:54] ▶

I wanted to give a press conference, but, but he gave a press conference in uniform about it.

[1:52:54 - 1:52:58] ▶

But there's another gentleman that wrote a book that was head of project blue book in 1952.

[1:52:58 - 1:53:02] ▶

You can look him up.

[1:53:02 - 1:53:02] ▶

And I'm just drawing up like now.

[1:53:02 - 1:53:04] ▶

But, um,

[1:53:04 - 1:53:05] ▶

you've got the former head of the CIA, Roscoe Hillencoder, quote, in the New York Times,

[1:53:07 - 1:53:11] ▶

who talked about, you know, there have been people over the decades that have made an effort to,

[1:53:11 - 1:53:16] ▶

to tell the people it's not like they're all decided to have this excessive secrecy.

[1:53:17 - 1:53:22] ▶

And, you know, people criticize Louis, Elizondo always a deep state.

[1:53:22 - 1:53:25] ▶

It's like, okay, so all everything that I've heard,

[1:53:25 - 1:53:29] ▶

Lou say for me, aligned with my field research,

[1:53:29 - 1:53:33] ▶

like even the fact that he testified under oath the other day about a crash retrieval program,

[1:53:33 - 1:53:37] ▶

people want to call that a big nothing burger.

[1:53:38 - 1:53:39] ▶

Actually, that's kind of a something burger.

[1:53:39 - 1:53:41] ▶

This guy worked at the UAP task force, a tip,

[1:53:42 - 1:53:46] ▶

and probably a sap prayer that happened in any case.

[1:53:46 - 1:53:49] ▶

And he's testifying on a road.

[1:53:49 - 1:53:50] ▶

There are consequences for lying under oath to, you know,

[1:53:50 - 1:53:53] ▶

bipartisan group of lawmakers.

[1:53:53 - 1:53:55] ▶

That was pretty phenomenal to you were there with me.

[1:53:55 - 1:53:57] ▶

Yep. It was pretty phenomenal to witness.

[1:53:57 - 1:53:58] ▶

Yep. But I say that like people are people and there are some reasons,

[1:53:58 - 1:54:02] ▶

you know, the decades of justification,

[1:54:03 - 1:54:06] ▶

potentially for some secrecy.

[1:54:06 - 1:54:08] ▶

I disagree with it now entirely, but maybe they will legitimately try to figure out what the hell is going on.

[1:54:08 - 1:54:13] ▶

Yeah.

[1:54:13 - 1:54:14] ▶

You know, back in the 40s, the majority of the point where that was needed.

[1:54:14 - 1:54:17] ▶

Yeah, they might have just said, Hey, let's just hold on a second.

[1:54:17 - 1:54:20] ▶

Let's not panic the public.

[1:54:20 - 1:54:21] ▶

Let's just, you know, and then the digger, they dig the digger,

[1:54:21 - 1:54:25] ▶

they the deeper they dug the more they probably were like,

[1:54:25 - 1:54:28] ▶

at least what the hell's going on here.

[1:54:29 - 1:54:30] ▶

Right.

[1:54:30 - 1:54:30] ▶

Yeah.

[1:54:30 - 1:54:30] ▶

And even if you have definitive proof bodies, crash materials,

[1:54:30 - 1:54:33] ▶

it still doesn't mean you have all the answers.

[1:54:33 - 1:54:35] ▶

And there's probably, I mean, I'll, I'll maybe I'll pose this question to you.

[1:54:35 - 1:54:38] ▶

But for me, I do believe that there is probably some,

[1:54:38 - 1:54:42] ▶

some,

[1:54:43 - 1:54:43] ▶

some framework outside of the government that

[1:54:44 - 1:54:47] ▶

really knows what's going on.

[1:54:47 - 1:54:49] ▶

Like it's, I'm 20 people.

[1:54:49 - 1:54:50] ▶

Yeah.

[1:54:51 - 1:54:51] ▶

Okay.

[1:54:51 - 1:54:52] ▶

20.

[1:54:52 - 1:54:52] ▶

20.

[1:54:52 - 1:54:53] ▶

Wow.

[1:54:53 - 1:54:53] ▶

Globally, globally 20 people have a, have a, have a bigger picture, have the bigger picture.

[1:54:53 - 1:54:58] ▶

Yeah.

[1:55:00 - 1:55:01] ▶

And they're running, they're running it.

[1:55:01 - 1:55:02] ▶

20.

[1:55:03 - 1:55:03] ▶

Wow.

[1:55:04 - 1:55:04] ▶

And that was came from someone I really trust.

[1:55:05 - 1:55:07] ▶

Someone I really trust.

[1:55:08 - 1:55:09] ▶

Could, could that be wrong?

[1:55:09 - 1:55:09] ▶

Yeah, could be.

[1:55:09 - 1:55:10] ▶

But,

[1:55:10 - 1:55:10] ▶

I mean, sounds, yeah.

[1:55:11 - 1:55:13] ▶

And that's been, I think a lot of people's suspicions is that whatever's happening,

[1:55:13 - 1:55:20] ▶

you know, there's, there's a very few amount of people at the center of this

[1:55:20 - 1:55:24] ▶

labyrinth, a very few.

[1:55:24 - 1:55:25] ▶

There's a lot of people around the center.

[1:55:25 - 1:55:27] ▶

I heard it's a little scary too.

[1:55:27 - 1:55:28] ▶

I bet.

[1:55:29 - 1:55:30] ▶

Yeah, what'd you hear?

[1:55:30 - 1:55:31] ▶

I, that's all I heard that it was a little scary.

[1:55:32 - 1:55:34] ▶

Yeah.

[1:55:34 - 1:55:35] ▶

But I was like, hey, even if we're someone's P2 dish, whatever,

[1:55:35 - 1:55:38] ▶

we have all these reality, right?

[1:55:38 - 1:55:40] ▶

Like, or, you know, is it a little scary that we don't have control over aerospace?

[1:55:40 - 1:55:44] ▶

Well, I've known that for a while.

[1:55:44 - 1:55:46] ▶

If they were here to do his harm, I mean, a lot of people could argue with me and say,

[1:55:46 - 1:55:49] ▶

abductions, okay, I get it.

[1:55:49 - 1:55:51] ▶

But for the most part, all the people that I've talked to that have had face-to-face encounters

[1:55:51 - 1:55:56] ▶

or really dramatic UFO encounters, like close guys, the second kind, third kind,

[1:55:56 - 1:56:00] ▶

first kind,

[1:56:01 - 1:56:01] ▶

their intent was to harm us.

[1:56:04 - 1:56:06] ▶

It would have, it would have vaporized just decades ago.

[1:56:06 - 1:56:09] ▶

That's just, and again, people could contradict me and say that that's not what they,

[1:56:09 - 1:56:15] ▶

there's different cases totally.

[1:56:16 - 1:56:17] ▶

I'm going to say my, you know, calores and one.

[1:56:17 - 1:56:19] ▶

Sure.

[1:56:19 - 1:56:20] ▶

But for the most part, it's fairly been, in fact,

[1:56:20 - 1:56:23] ▶

it was really interesting.

[1:56:24 - 1:56:25] ▶

And I was like, in retrospect, I didn't, I looked back on a 10 years after the fact.

[1:56:25 - 1:56:30] ▶

I did an interview with Parvice Jafarri, he was an Iranian general.

[1:56:30 - 1:56:34] ▶

And he had this dramatic UFO encounter over Tehran Iron in like 19,

[1:56:35 - 1:56:38] ▶

I want to say 75 could have been 76 in a phantom F4 jet.

[1:56:38 - 1:56:44] ▶

And he tried to shoot at it.

[1:56:45 - 1:56:47] ▶

Well, it's really dramatic.

[1:56:47 - 1:56:48] ▶

I feature it and I know what I saw.

[1:56:48 - 1:56:50] ▶

It was an incredible case.

[1:56:50 - 1:56:51] ▶

And the fact that we got him out of the States at the time when George Bush had called it

[1:56:52 - 1:56:55] ▶

the access of evil or Iran and I was like, oh God, no, no, he's not going to really get

[1:56:55 - 1:57:00] ▶

the visas to come, you know, and he was reflecting on the case years later on camera to,

[1:57:00 - 1:57:07] ▶

to me. And he goes and tried to shoot it and it didn't end well when he tried to shoot it.

[1:57:07 - 1:57:11] ▶

Like it was, he thought he was dead.

[1:57:11 - 1:57:12] ▶

And he goes, my biggest regret was that I didn't try to make peaceful contact.

[1:57:13 - 1:57:20] ▶

I tried to shoot it.

[1:57:20 - 1:57:21] ▶

What would have happened?

[1:57:22 - 1:57:23] ▶

How'd I try to make peaceful contact?

[1:57:23 - 1:57:25] ▶

And he was really thinking hard about that one.

[1:57:25 - 1:57:28] ▶

And that's, you know, anything that we can't identify, we just immediately assume

[1:57:28 - 1:57:34] ▶

it was a threat. And we take that position, you know, that position of aggression.

[1:57:34 - 1:57:39] ▶

And yeah, that doesn't generally end well.

[1:57:40 - 1:57:43] ▶

Yeah. Now I was, it's kind of like the, the witness in Texas where he had to

[1:57:44 - 1:57:49] ▶

been a star. But he's like, he said he had a good idea.

[1:57:49 - 1:57:51] ▶

Finger was on the trigger and he was, yeah, I could start.

[1:57:51 - 1:57:54] ▶

I could start an intergalactic war.

[1:57:54 - 1:57:56] ▶

Maybe I better not do that.

[1:57:57 - 1:57:59] ▶

All right. We're going to get into some questions here from, let me turn on this camera.

[1:58:00 - 1:58:03] ▶

Got it. You got it.

[1:58:03 - 1:58:04] ▶

All right. While I go set up the camera, if you've noticed, these videos aren't sponsored.

[1:58:05 - 1:58:09] ▶

And so I'm going to take this opportunity to share with you some of the things that help

[1:58:10 - 1:58:14] ▶

support this channel, including new merch.

[1:58:14 - 1:58:17] ▶

We've got these amazing area, 52 snapbacks with the embroidered logo on the front,

[1:58:17 - 1:58:21] ▶

as well as some brand new patches that you can add to your favorite jacket or shirt or

[1:58:21 - 1:58:26] ▶

whatever. I left a link in the description where you can pick them up and thank you for the

[1:58:26 - 1:58:29] ▶

support. All right. Back to the video.

[1:58:29 - 1:58:31] ▶

This is so cool. Thank you so much for this. Yeah. Absolutely.

[1:58:31 - 1:58:34] ▶

I mean, I'm serious. I've read through a bunch of it.

[1:58:34 - 1:58:36] ▶

And there's a whole bunch of really interesting, just fringe cases that you would never

[1:58:36 - 1:58:40] ▶

otherwise hear about, right? And I find that to be one of the most fascinating things.

[1:58:40 - 1:58:44] ▶

The phenomenon right there, right there. The phenomenon.

[1:58:44 - 1:58:48] ▶

Wow. Right. Long time ago, too. Yeah.

[1:58:49 - 1:58:52] ▶

19, what is this 60 years ago? Wow. Anyway, as you were saying,

[1:58:52 - 1:58:58] ▶

yeah, we'll bring in, we'll bring in some of the questions here. Let's do it.

[1:58:58 - 1:59:02] ▶

So one of which you answered already.

[1:59:02 - 1:59:04] ▶

But here's one from our discord moderator,

[1:59:06 - 1:59:09] ▶

a hell of a hell of sand pop up here. Cool.

[1:59:10 - 1:59:14] ▶

It says if you could travel back to any UFO event in history to witness it firsthand,

[1:59:17 - 1:59:23] ▶

which one would you choose? And why?

[1:59:23 - 1:59:24] ▶

So coronomax go 1964 April because it involves,

[1:59:24 - 1:59:31] ▶

it involves a landing and two entities that got out of the spacecraft.

[1:59:33 - 1:59:37] ▶

And if I could, I've thought about that many times, if I could just put myself somewhere

[1:59:37 - 1:59:42] ▶

hidden, you know, and I have witnessed, have witnessed that up close.

[1:59:42 - 1:59:47] ▶

The aliens getting out of the of the spacecraft and walking around.

[1:59:47 - 1:59:51] ▶

Oh my gosh, that being incredible.

[1:59:51 - 1:59:53] ▶

I mean, I thought about for us, you know, Brazil, but that involved the military and

[1:59:53 - 1:59:57] ▶

their aggression and people's lives threatened.

[1:59:57 - 2:00:00] ▶

But that encounter was very benign. Right. It was, it was secluded.

[2:00:00 - 2:00:04] ▶

It was secluded. It was benign remote.

[2:00:04 - 2:00:06] ▶

And if you look at the topography of the area, they actually picked a spot

[2:00:06 - 2:00:11] ▶

that looked down in the rollo to minimize any possibility of them being seen.

[2:00:11 - 2:00:16] ▶

They chose a really low point where they could land and just, you know what I mean?

[2:00:17 - 2:00:22] ▶

And just be kind of hidden. It's interesting.

[2:00:22 - 2:00:24] ▶

You look at what the phenomenon does.

[2:00:24 - 2:00:26] ▶

And then you look at what the phenomenon doesn't do.

[2:00:27 - 2:00:30] ▶

And that speaks volumes.

[2:00:30 - 2:00:32] ▶

It's a great point. Yeah.

[2:00:32 - 2:00:34] ▶

Yeah, they're not showing up on, you know, the white house lawn got close though.

[2:00:34 - 2:00:38] ▶

Yeah, but yeah, they get close.

[2:00:38 - 2:00:40] ▶

52, but they are showing up at schools.

[2:00:40 - 2:00:43] ▶

Yes. All right.

[2:00:43 - 2:00:45] ▶

We got another one here.

[2:00:45 - 2:00:46] ▶

This is, oh, no, this one we already, it's going to show up anyway, but we already got

[2:00:46 - 2:00:50] ▶

two. So we'll get to a different one. One second.

[2:00:50 - 2:00:52] ▶

I love the colors. That's so pretty.

[2:00:52 - 2:00:54] ▶

Buh, buh, buh, buh.

[2:00:56 - 2:00:57] ▶

Got a few. Okay.

[2:00:58 - 2:00:59] ▶

This is a really, really good question.

[2:01:01 - 2:01:04] ▶

This is from Stan B and Stan says, who's the first guest or witness?

[2:01:04 - 2:01:11] ▶

You would get in front of the camera if they were allowed to break their NDA.

[2:01:12 - 2:01:15] ▶

How put off?

[2:01:17 - 2:01:18] ▶

Yeah, I would agree with that too.

[2:01:21 - 2:01:22] ▶

I'd love to get him the skiff and I

[2:01:22 - 2:01:25] ▶

have to be careful what I say here.

[2:01:27 - 2:01:29] ▶

But I also say that I believe and the reasons that I won't discuss.

[2:01:29 - 2:01:36] ▶

I believe he's the first hand witness.

[2:01:36 - 2:01:38] ▶

Wow.

[2:01:39 - 2:01:39] ▶

Wow.

[2:01:42 - 2:01:42] ▶

I believe that.

[2:01:44 - 2:01:45] ▶

I mean, from the interviews, he even shared in the program.

[2:01:45 - 2:01:49] ▶

You know, kind of caught me off guard, especially when he says, like,

[2:01:50 - 2:01:54] ▶

I've seen things.

[2:01:54 - 2:01:55] ▶

If I talk about, I'll go to jail.

[2:01:55 - 2:01:57] ▶

Yeah.

[2:01:57 - 2:01:57] ▶

Do you see things that if you talk about, you go to jail?

[2:01:58 - 2:02:00] ▶

No, but I could talk about things other people might go to jail.

[2:02:02 - 2:02:05] ▶

Enough said.

[2:02:05 - 2:02:06] ▶

Yeah.

[2:02:06 - 2:02:07] ▶

Wow.

[2:02:07 - 2:02:07] ▶

That's a lot of weight.

[2:02:08 - 2:02:09] ▶

It is.

[2:02:09 - 2:02:09] ▶

Yeah.

[2:02:10 - 2:02:11] ▶

I remember asking myself at one point is my life better knowing these things.

[2:02:11 - 2:02:15] ▶

And on the one hand, it's like, be careful what you ask for.

[2:02:16 - 2:02:18] ▶

You just might get it.

[2:02:18 - 2:02:18] ▶

Hmm.

[2:02:18 - 2:02:19] ▶

You know, 30 years in the field, right?

[2:02:19 - 2:02:21] ▶

Traveling all over the damn place.

[2:02:21 - 2:02:23] ▶

Like I must be nuts.

[2:02:23 - 2:02:24] ▶

What's the hell?

[2:02:24 - 2:02:25] ▶

You know what I mean?

[2:02:25 - 2:02:26] ▶

Yeah.

[2:02:26 - 2:02:26] ▶

Especially I was telling you last night that I've been laughed at and really killed

[2:02:26 - 2:02:30] ▶

for most of my adult life.

[2:02:30 - 2:02:31] ▶

He imagined like, that's why I was watching David Grush testify.

[2:02:32 - 2:02:35] ▶

I'll never forget this.

[2:02:36 - 2:02:37] ▶

I'm an already emotional kind of guy, but I was like, I was staring at my screen

[2:02:38 - 2:02:42] ▶

and my son was trying to get my intention.

[2:02:42 - 2:02:44] ▶

He wanted to go play with me outside or something.

[2:02:44 - 2:02:45] ▶

It was in the middle of the day.

[2:02:45 - 2:02:46] ▶

I had my phone and I was sitting on this little leather sofa and I was staring

[2:02:47 - 2:02:52] ▶

at it and I had tears pouring down the sides of my face, just pouring down like a river

[2:02:52 - 2:02:57] ▶

for the whole time because I was like, I knew, you know, I knew it.

[2:02:57 - 2:03:03] ▶

Damn it.

[2:03:04 - 2:03:04] ▶

I knew it.

[2:03:04 - 2:03:05] ▶

And I got laughed at and ridiculed and made fun of and I didn't believe David Grush

[2:03:05 - 2:03:11] ▶

because it was a high level intelligence officer testifying under oath to a

[2:03:11 - 2:03:15] ▶

bipartisan group of lawmakers.

[2:03:15 - 2:03:16] ▶

I believed him because everything he said aligned with my 30 years of research in the

[2:03:17 - 2:03:21] ▶

field.

[2:03:21 - 2:03:21] ▶

That's why I believed him.

[2:03:22 - 2:03:23] ▶

You know what I mean?

[2:03:24 - 2:03:24] ▶

Yeah.

[2:03:25 - 2:03:25] ▶

And that the level of I can't even describe what it felt like for I just can't.

[2:03:25 - 2:03:29] ▶

It was just that's amazing.

[2:03:30 - 2:03:32] ▶

Tears just pouring down my face of relief.

[2:03:32 - 2:03:35] ▶

And then this weight off my shoulders.

[2:03:35 - 2:03:37] ▶

You can recognize the courage to, oh, totally, you know, of these, these men who've

[2:03:37 - 2:03:41] ▶

all come forward, even in the recent one, like we're quick to dismiss.

[2:03:41 - 2:03:45] ▶

A lot of the information is anecdotal or second hand with everything to lose

[2:03:45 - 2:03:49] ▶

and nothing again.

[2:03:49 - 2:03:50] ▶

Yeah.

[2:03:50 - 2:03:50] ▶

It's a lot.

[2:03:51 - 2:03:51] ▶

And their lives in jeopardy, their families and remind your audience,

[2:03:52 - 2:03:58] ▶

people out there, it's so easily, it's so easy to sit on the sidelines and

[2:03:58 - 2:04:02] ▶

criticize.

[2:04:02 - 2:04:03] ▶

And like, we're, you know, we're all human.

[2:04:03 - 2:04:04] ▶

We try to get it right.

[2:04:04 - 2:04:05] ▶

And we have people that are making some pretty, pretty crazy allegations.

[2:04:05 - 2:04:09] ▶

And I'll be the first one to tell you.

[2:04:09 - 2:04:10] ▶

I believe, you know, you can't just believe something because of former

[2:04:10 - 2:04:14] ▶

military officers saying it.

[2:04:14 - 2:04:16] ▶

However, it's really hard to make the decisions like, do I report on it?

[2:04:16 - 2:04:20] ▶

Do I not report it?

[2:04:20 - 2:04:21] ▶

Well, if you don't report on it, then clearly no more information is going to come

[2:04:21 - 2:04:24] ▶

out on it.

[2:04:24 - 2:04:25] ▶

You got at some point, get out there and put the, put the hook in the water and

[2:04:25 - 2:04:29] ▶

see if there's, you know, and, and we don't always get it right.

[2:04:29 - 2:04:33] ▶

Which we try to, and I certainly try to, and I would never deliberately put

[2:04:34 - 2:04:38] ▶

out anything that was disinfor ever, never no amount of money in the world would

[2:04:38 - 2:04:42] ▶

get me to do that.

[2:04:42 - 2:04:43] ▶

But I believe sometimes I'll believe something just enough to put it out there

[2:04:44 - 2:04:47] ▶

and it's like, let's pray to God that other first hand witnesses will come

[2:04:47 - 2:04:50] ▶

forward as a result of that.

[2:04:50 - 2:04:51] ▶

And that's a big part of what I reported.

[2:04:52 - 2:04:54] ▶

And now we're getting to the point where, you know, we're not just dealing with

[2:04:54 - 2:04:57] ▶

unidentified objects in the sky anymore.

[2:04:57 - 2:04:59] ▶

Now we're dealing with beans on the ground and possible hardware in a, in a, in a

[2:04:59 - 2:05:02] ▶

lap.

[2:05:02 - 2:05:03] ▶

And biologics as David Gross would put it.

[2:05:03 - 2:05:05] ▶

I don't like that term.

[2:05:06 - 2:05:07] ▶

I don't either.

[2:05:07 - 2:05:08] ▶

Can we just say aliens?

[2:05:08 - 2:05:09] ▶

Yes.

[2:05:09 - 2:05:09] ▶

I don't care if they're from here.

[2:05:09 - 2:05:11] ▶

I'm still calling them aliens.

[2:05:11 - 2:05:12] ▶

They're alien to me.

[2:05:12 - 2:05:13] ▶

We call them NHI.

[2:05:13 - 2:05:14] ▶

Yeah.

[2:05:14 - 2:05:14] ▶

NHI, not human intelligence works, but you know what?

[2:05:14 - 2:05:16] ▶

Adolphin is NHI too.

[2:05:16 - 2:05:18] ▶

Oh, okay.

[2:05:18 - 2:05:18] ▶

Good point.

[2:05:18 - 2:05:19] ▶

Do you know what I mean?

[2:05:19 - 2:05:19] ▶

Like, I'd alien is good.

[2:05:20 - 2:05:21] ▶

And let's make, let's make you a P UFO again.

[2:05:21 - 2:05:24] ▶

Yeah.

[2:05:25 - 2:05:25] ▶

Yeah.

[2:05:25 - 2:05:25] ▶

Right.

[2:05:25 - 2:05:25] ▶

You're right.

[2:05:25 - 2:05:26] ▶

Right.

[2:05:26 - 2:05:26] ▶

This is the last question here from, from the interns here.

[2:05:27 - 2:05:31] ▶

I can either convert into that.

[2:05:31 - 2:05:32] ▶

I'll have to say, no, call me.

[2:05:35 - 2:05:37] ▶

In a secure environment only.

[2:05:37 - 2:05:38] ▶

We are in a secure environment.

[2:05:39 - 2:05:40] ▶

That's right.

[2:05:40 - 2:05:41] ▶

Anything goes here.

[2:05:41 - 2:05:42] ▶

This is from Disco.

[2:05:42 - 2:05:43] ▶

This is James straight up question about UAP UFO, Leovny.

[2:05:43 - 2:05:46] ▶

Lizzo knee.

[2:05:47 - 2:05:47] ▶

What do you think it is?

[2:05:47 - 2:05:48] ▶

What do you think it is?

[2:05:48 - 2:05:50] ▶

Good question.

[2:05:52 - 2:05:53] ▶

And I've given this a lot of thought.

[2:05:53 - 2:05:55] ▶

And I almost called the phenomenon all of the above.

[2:05:55 - 2:05:58] ▶

That was a name that I was entertaining.

[2:06:00 - 2:06:01] ▶

I wasn't quite latched onto it.

[2:06:01 - 2:06:03] ▶

But I was like, something I thought about for a couple of weeks.

[2:06:03 - 2:06:05] ▶

And the reason being is I was like, God, maybe it's

[2:06:06 - 2:06:09] ▶

interdimensional time traveler,

[2:06:10 - 2:06:12] ▶

you know, periodic visitation, interplanetary, you know, maybe it's just all of that,

[2:06:14 - 2:06:20] ▶

right?

[2:06:20 - 2:06:20] ▶

It's a big universe.

[2:06:20 - 2:06:21] ▶

And so I thought about that.

[2:06:22 - 2:06:25] ▶

But I would say that the most, as this is all speculation, but I would say informed

[2:06:25 - 2:06:31] ▶

speculation that the only conclusion that I've really drawn is that, and I've said

[2:06:31 - 2:06:37] ▶

this before.

[2:06:37 - 2:06:38] ▶

There's an omnipresent intelligence that has the ability to manifest itself in a

[2:06:39 - 2:06:45] ▶

multitude of ways, like it's nuts and bolts, but it's also psychic.

[2:06:45 - 2:06:49] ▶

And they have a sense of humor at times.

[2:06:50 - 2:06:52] ▶

A lot of the people within the scientific community that I've met with had

[2:06:54 - 2:06:57] ▶

give me a number of instances where they, I was like, that's a bit of a relief.

[2:06:57 - 2:07:01] ▶

They have a sense of humor.

[2:07:01 - 2:07:01] ▶

That's kind of cool, but that it's an omnipresent.

[2:07:01 - 2:07:04] ▶

It's everywhere, right?

[2:07:04 - 2:07:06] ▶

And that it can just, it's a people described like it just appeared out of

[2:07:06 - 2:07:09] ▶

nowhere, you know, or just disappeared, like it almost disappeared in place.

[2:07:09 - 2:07:12] ▶

Like, you know, maybe, maybe they're operating in a slightly different dimension.

[2:07:12 - 2:07:17] ▶

And maybe, maybe you just like a radio, you adjust the frequency a little bit,

[2:07:17 - 2:07:21] ▶

and all of a sudden something appears that it's always there, but you have to adjust,

[2:07:21 - 2:07:25] ▶

you know, maybe, maybe it's that, maybe it's time travelers, maybe it's us coming

[2:07:25 - 2:07:28] ▶

back from the future, or maybe it's all the above.

[2:07:28 - 2:07:30] ▶

I honestly don't know, but whatever it is, it's far more complex than just

[2:07:31 - 2:07:36] ▶

interplanetary visitation.

[2:07:36 - 2:07:37] ▶

No question.

[2:07:38 - 2:07:39] ▶

Great answer.

[2:07:39 - 2:07:40] ▶

All right.

[2:07:42 - 2:07:43] ▶

That was an amazing two hours.

[2:07:43 - 2:07:45] ▶

Do you remember my favorite color?

[2:07:45 - 2:07:47] ▶

Blue.

[2:07:47 - 2:07:47] ▶

Yes, but it's dark, dark blue.

[2:07:48 - 2:07:49] ▶

Dark blue.

[2:07:49 - 2:07:50] ▶

Yeah, like dark blue.

[2:07:50 - 2:07:50] ▶

Midnight buzz.

[2:07:52 - 2:07:53] ▶

Look at that.

[2:07:53 - 2:07:53] ▶

It's like a kind of a gray.

[2:07:53 - 2:07:54] ▶

Do you mind if I, you might have to keep you for an extra 20 after this,

[2:07:56 - 2:07:59] ▶

just for the, the actual interview.

[2:07:59 - 2:08:01] ▶

Okay.

[2:08:01 - 2:08:01] ▶

But before we do that, if you guys want to, if you guys want to check out anything

[2:08:01 - 2:08:05] ▶

at all, I highly encourage you to binge watch this man's.

[2:08:05 - 2:08:08] ▶

Just library.

[2:08:09 - 2:08:10] ▶

Go down the rabbit hole.

[2:08:10 - 2:08:12] ▶

My personal, one of my personal favorite documentaries of all times,

[2:08:12 - 2:08:15] ▶

moment of contact.

[2:08:15 - 2:08:16] ▶

We talked about our genius stuff.

[2:08:16 - 2:08:17] ▶

If you haven't seen that, please go watch that.

[2:08:17 - 2:08:19] ▶

Go watch the phenomenon.

[2:08:20 - 2:08:21] ▶

Go watch the program.

[2:08:21 - 2:08:23] ▶

Go watch everything under the sun that James Fox has ever put out.

[2:08:23 - 2:08:26] ▶

You will not be disappointed and you will be more well informed than anyone else.

[2:08:26 - 2:08:32] ▶

And so highly encourage you guys to check that out.

[2:08:32 - 2:08:35] ▶

I'll leave James's links below, including his, his ex, his,

[2:08:35 - 2:08:39] ▶

his Instagram, all the, all the above, all the above.

[2:08:40 - 2:08:42] ▶

When you say my ex, literally, yeah, Twitter.

[2:08:43 - 2:08:45] ▶

Yeah, I hate dating it, but I also don't want to sound like I'm not hit.

[2:08:46 - 2:08:49] ▶

Yeah, I'll leave, I'll leave all the links below.

[2:08:51 - 2:08:53] ▶

And if you guys want to tune in for an extra little discussion,

[2:08:53 - 2:08:56] ▶

we're going to go deep into, deep into the skiff and this will not be public,

[2:08:56 - 2:09:00] ▶

but it'll be available to the interns for five bucks a month.

[2:09:01 - 2:09:04] ▶

You guys know the deal.

[2:09:04 - 2:09:05] ▶

You can do all that.

[2:09:05 - 2:09:06] ▶

Join the discord, join the Patreon, join the membership.

[2:09:06 - 2:09:09] ▶

Join the conversation and we'll see you guys on the next video.

[2:09:10 - 2:09:13] ▶

James, thank you so much.

[2:09:13 - 2:09:14] ▶

Thanks for having me on.

[2:09:14 - 2:09:15] ▶

All right, we take a little break.

[2:09:16 - 2:09:17] ▶

You want to take a little break?

[2:09:18 - 2:09:18] ▶

You want to keep seeing more on through those rolls?

[2:09:18 - 2:09:20] ▶

All right, that's right.

[2:09:20 - 2:09:21] ▶

We're right here.

[2:09:21 - 2:09:21] ▶