opposed to last year and it's important because uh speaking for myself i've i've gone to a lot of
different places as to like what i think is actually happening when we talk about ufos or now uap
i always love talking are we rolling steve yeah i'm wondering steve are we good we are rolling oh
beautiful so i always love uh the opportunity when the opportunity arises to talk to somebody
like yourself because i've only talked to maybe three i roughly three maybe four people on this
show that have been studying this topic for over 25 30 years like yourself yeah most people have been
in this stuff just you know for a few years recently since like the emergence of youtube um but i think it
was like the first one was james fox then uh jason georgiani steven greer these types of folks
and uh you i've noticed that you've been in a lot of some of like the biggest documentaries on this
topic so um it's always just so interesting to hear people's takes on this stuff when they've been
studying studying for so long um but for people that don't know who you are can you just give like a
classified elements to this but there is also an element that is beyond government yeah and it's
kind of nebulous like who are these guys is it all is it all think tanks and corporations or is it
the reserves kudos for that but the the basic question is what so paul for people who don't
know this paul benowitz was a uh kind of a small u.s defense contractor in the 1970s he uh lived right
of uh ufo information to serve their needs or what i believe is we're looking at a factional struggle
they're like be my guest we're not afraid we're not afraid of you and he did go back to dc he did
complain and he was threatened with his career he's threatened he'd lose a star or two along the way and
to wilson we want to talk to him so wilson retires in 02 and clearly eric davis who was part of the
of people talk about that on this on this show before and it's uh yeah the way he described it with
rogan was uh it was very very cohesive like it made a lot of sense the way he did it yeah it's
i have to have other things going on in my life so i i can sympathize with that but as far as like
what's going on the reason uh that i i still i very much believe that the significant portion of
uh perspectives coming in on this uh the real man who researched this is an italian researcher named
roberto pinotti who looked at a lot of the original documents that do exist in italian from 1933.
uh there's a couple of different ways to look at this so you know hal putoff wrote a very interesting
paper a number of years ago on uh ultra terrestrials this yeah concept and it's a it's very interesting
that out let you let us know steve that's your homework assignment but but we have we also have
water and land so we but we're not completely covered in water either so we have enough water for life to
well domesticated humans as opposed to wild humans right before we started settling in
large communities and societies roughly 10 000 years ago so we're we're going on a path so what we're
going to look like uh the you know the problem with our future is that every every new technological
leap you make whether it's mastering the use of fire or stone tools or now working at it you know
getting to agi and whatever else we're going to get to means that you become dependent on that for your
species survival like honestly like once we've had fire for like a couple hundred thousand years right
it would be very difficult to probably for those people to survive without it yes because you become
dependent on it and then not only that but the fact that you have fire means you have to develop all
these other technologies because we have to maintain the fire we have to protect the fire we have to
find and process the right kinds of wood like all of that that that prompts further intellectual
realize there were a couple of books that had been done on this it was a book back in 1970 by an american
researcher named ivan sanderson a very good book uh there was another very good book by uh the recently
to have happened in the late 60s how do you go about mining all this information do you just look for
and just scrub the internet for cases involving usos or do you interview specific people ask them a little
are people seeing these uf usos for the most part is there is there is there one spot in the world
i think he's on our list steve he's coming on the podcast is he really yeah he's good good good shout
yeah and and if you if you are interested in these human creatures well you know that they live on the
i envision like a a straight perpendicular rod of some sort but above the water uh moving along with his ship
it's not the best case but it's not the worst like it's it was i decided to include it because
the communications were just down and he also uh stated that he believed that the weapons like aircraft
like um i think what do they have f4s they were not operational so the aircraft would not fly or
and apparently these things would like circle around them that's not easy to do circle around a nuclear
submarine right uh but that would happen and uh there would be multiple ones of them uh they'd be
to go down this dead end path basically of research so like there are now that's something we know about
and does he answer to someone else does he answer to them there's all kinds of possibilities who does he
answer to right exactly and you know this is i don't know i don't have that answer this is
kind of democratic system or else they'd be very unhappy because we want to think that we have a say
in our system but the reality has always been uh there's always been elites there's always been the guys on
top and throughout all of the 19th and 20th and now 21st century their goal has always been to figure
out how do we let the people keep believing these little fairy tales while we keep running things the
way we've always done and that's really what the system is and so now it's a system that is inherently
dishonest it has to rule by lies because and and that that distorts all of our politics too because
everything's now out in the open you can't really um yeah everything's got to be kind of tossed out
there for the people and it's all a series of manipulations one after the net it's just we get
propagandized 24 7. yeah basically what it is sure yeah and it's built on lies and that's why they can't
disclose certain things because they feel like that will unravel a whole another layer of lies that will
that's right that will make people accountable for things and people will go to prison i'm sure i'm
sure there will be a lot of really terrible consequences for divulging some of the secret
like there are factions that will never give this up they will never look think of it like but what
they will never give it up they'll never willingly give up this to protect us or protect to protect
at the twin towers yeah he shared his job with a really nice man who i knew who was killed that day
name was billy and um yeah really affected my dad it was a real real tough thing so 9 11 was a very
uh on false flags a history of false flag operations in our world i i got i got really into it and uh
in fact i did a i wrote a little tv series for gaia television um number of years ago on the history
or any other there's a lot of false flags america is the king of false flags especially after world war
it whether or not people are credible credible are they are they strategically putting out disinformation
or some some sort of a mixed bag that's a very fair question and i don't i don't know if i can
hard to avoid talking about specific people in this community yeah and you get like and it's hard not
to go chasing after the latest headline yeah yeah which is a problem because ideally what you want to do
if i had the proper perspective on lazar and i actually i've always i mean i really appreciate
and respect stan always will but i did not appreciate that i felt that he was trying to pressure me
uh you know we we don't really do a good job at managing ourselves it's impossible yeah and there's
heard herrera talk so jake barber says that he went there as like a guy to uh catch whistleblowers to
prosecute them right and then he heard herrera talk and he's like oh my god he said yeah you basically
you're dealing with i mean by its very nature the ufo let me just keep saying ufo because i'm so used
to it we say uap whatever yeah ufos represent i mean we we talk about it in our society often enough
is track the cases and then the other is to try to understand the technological military political
and uh i don't know what to say about this i mean i've i've uh spoken with chris bledsoe myself a few
times a number of times and um is that believable yeah that's totally believable yeah yeah i could
yeah i i tend to um i i don't think he's making any of this stuff up i feel like uh my my gut told
uh you know i've kind of referred alluded to this a few times in this conversation with you but
secrets the fact that everyone on social media thinks everyone is working for an intelligence agency is a
benefit to them absolutely it's it's a big it's a really big problem let's let's talk about this for
are they on the good side or the bad side that's that's not good because there's information coming
that the world is you know i had a i grew up with a very liberal mother and a pretty conservative father
and so that was kind of good because i was able to appreciate two very radically different world views
that each of my parents had and to understand where they were coming from and to respect where they
were coming from which i do to this day and that's that was good for me and uh i think that when
uh you know as as we're in the world today i i just i take it as a given that there's always going to
be people people out there who don't see the world the way i do and what am i supposed to like condemn them
uh and just say well you're you're morally suspect because you have a different perspective on the
world than i do that's kind of ridiculous but yeah we do it we do it all the time people on the right
and the left they all do it and it's uh it's very unfortunate we get all apocalyptic about things yeah
and we live in very dangerous times in many ways i'm not going to deny that very dangerous on many