He didn't tell me personally, but he told a member of my family, not Von Neumann, General Exan, that he had held when the debris and bodies were brought into the material, he had held one of the bodies.
But the other thing that Von Neumann and you referenced briefly this paper earlier there is supposedly a paper and at general Exan who was no scientist but had been exposed to a lot of scientists involved in this and was very smart.