It was a conventional way of reaching out.
But I won't say where, because I don't want him to get blown up on, you know,
I was 25.
Again, though, like, you know, you've obviously, if you're impressed in Peter Teal when you're 25,
Awesome.
You are the host of American Alchemy and your channel is now officially called Jesse Michaels.
And there are a lot of these kind of fringe topics at the time that I don't mean it wasn't like a cynical thing like, oh, I think this is going to get bigger.
I was just interested in it like like the UFO stuff.
But it looked like nothing I could just ever explain.
How close?
it's totally theoretical but do you think it's possible they could be like simulating
that stuff ahead of time as a part of you know their interest in us as a that is a subject.
Teleology like like a direction with meaning but that's not a future to take.
No no no no no no.
A teleology like a phrase that he says or something that's funny.
Well you know what you're saying.
Yeah right.
No like I think if you're trying to like sway society it's like if you're trying to get
rats to run a prime number maze you could do it with Pavlovian conditioning with the
rats know that they're undergoing Pavlovian conditioning they'd have no idea but like
you would is like this like you know more intelligent species.
And so I think a lot of this stuff is inherently absurd it's high strangeness and how do you
work on consciousness on like the consciousness layer like you would like you know it's like
the the the the Zen Cohen the sound of one hand clapping like that confuses you like that
like what is that you know that that's this like phrase that like Jacques Vallet himself
like loves to bring up because it's like inherently this thing that scrambles your brain
and you're like what what the hell and then you like think about it over and over and over
again.
And so something that happens to you that's like inexplicable or absurd you know it's
causes you to contemplate another world but it causes you to do it by literally like breaking
all of your rational kind of priors.
future humans are coming here to then work with us in some ways and not I forget what term you
use but not do certain things so they fuck up their future well I'm not so sure that would be
April 2023 he did this unbelievable like 25 minutes just riff yeah of all the history of UFOs since World
episode around on social media and with your friends whether it's Reddit Instagram Facebook
Twitter doesn't matter it's all a huge help it gets new eyeballs on the show and it allows us to
interesting in some ways but maybe not to the extent of like trying to change timelines and like
ensure the sustenance of future timelines and I'm not saying that's definitely what's happening but
if you were to do that you would definitely really you would really care about our nuclear assets
like that would be the thing that would be the Archimedes lever the point of most leverage if you
will where you can you can affect that you kind of affect everything you know if you can stop the
you know the Cuban missile crisis if there's some alternative timeline where like that happens
you know that's where you would like jump in yes and so this stuff does just consistently show up
around around nuclear so yeah that I think that's like a good one really good explanation for it
but also if like I don't know the world is like a gas station for like factions of aliens and like
they're mining us for resources like that's another possible you know explanation for where they
just don't want us to blow ourselves up because you know again they're like extracting us for like
other stuff it's it's hard to say I don't know but I do think the time travel hypothesis doesn't get
50s movies like invasion of the body snatchers and that sort of thing up until you know
alien versus predator and like to an independent state and stuff but like yeah that's kind of like
cova didn't come from a lab or whatever and i'm like well what do you mean and they're like or if
they say like you know gain a function research it's like super super valuable like we needed to do
itself it was 41 through 45 and all the crash all the the lore around ufo crashes 45 through 49
yes so maybe there's something interesting there john Von noiman who's defending him
protocols for atomic secrecy which gets overlaid onto ufo secrecy he writes the mcman act around
atomic secrecy was 1946 a lot of that language gets used in the atomic energy act of 1954
just don't please give us the information like we'll be you know we'll be fine we're not going to
you know like the science religion thing I remember him being like there are two sides of the
has to come out here yeah do that and do his job in which case all the respect to you do your thing
yeah just like I say to boost the Montaill nice job working for the CIA still like it is what it is
in certain areas and like it's just sort of where have you seen my towns and brown episode
now wait is that the guy revert the 26 year old engineer no no no this guy is a mid-century
detract attraction on this experiment is that ion wind is causing the thrust so if you're in a
vacuum chamber you can't you don't have ion wind there are other variations of the experiment
Island which is a UFO hotspot the fucking Catalina wine mixture that it all started there it is
it is a UFO I just can never wrap my head around the fact that the Catalina wine mixture places
Townsend Brown wasn't part of the you know kind of legacy stuff then I just don't believe the then
I think UFOs aren't real or something he's like he he has to be more involved than anybody in my opinion
be awesome if we we couldn't and and actually transcend the limits of of space X which space X is
an amazing company but it's really an earth-based space company it's space for it's space travel
for you know it's a starlink and maybe moon or Mars if we're lucky and you know that is like
after we get starship to work but we're not really going beyond that and so like I think this
stuff is extremely important to explore and so yeah until like I hear anything on that then
I think yeah and the logical thing is like move forward and and I and I respect that a lot I also
respect the idea that like you know as a patriotic American if you felt like something was
getting on the edge of where shickard dangerous or there's blowback you know you stop that the here's
the catch 22 there though that's difficult and my friend joby war who have had on a couple times
episode 134 and episode 198 you know he's two-time Pulitzer winner long-time national security reporter
at the washington post just incredible incredible journalist wrote the book black flags in
in your head that like there may be points where you stop but you might have to ask the question
sometimes where it's like yeah telling me this and why yeah and maybe this is sketch sure well
just like what the public can't know about that and like again it comes down to a judgment call
I don't envy that position as far as I know no I don't even I've never been in that position for
there's it hinted like hey you know I think you might be on to something there might be more
here than you know meets the eye but you know he wasn't he was still in the government at the time
they're sure that like reality is weirder than we realize that the government has some handle on it
but they don't I don't think have like this like clear picture like what's going on
own epistemics in some ways more so then yeah and then you you you have the people like grush
though who have access to things and find it yes and you know what's the term epistemic aperture
assets like what are you actually proposing if you look at the real fact pattern and so I I don't
see too many people like if you had like Sean Kirkpatrick on like the old head of arrow yep
push this stuff with having said that just the the the the fact pattern itself I think is just
undeniable and kind of unimpeachable and that that's what interests me and like I have a sense of
partner and like venture guy at you know Teal Capital of course being like yo UFOs are real like
look at this look at this that's different than like pentagon New York Times being like you know
he's like look this is what I do yeah this is my expertise yeah this is what I saw it went
boom boom yeah I don't see tic-tacs I don't see shit like that doing that yeah that's not something
comeler and so calmer was doing yeah weird nuclear stuff we and then aviation stuff the final story
here which I think is just mind blowing because all of this is still kind of in the like lore
no and he just like kind of changes the subject but it was a trip that he and Alan Dulles sound
Dallas obviously third director of the CIA you know we're on father operation paper clip
respond to shit like this like is it crazy or do you it sounds like there's a lot of evidence he
has below stuff that's the thing so I would if I were to hear what he said five years ago or 10
and let's go and then and take out JFK and he like uh Danny mentions the name of the guy that
he says he gets like yeah he goes we're yeah Ricardo knows guy Morales um uh um uh uh
right yeah he's they call them Roger Morale yeah Ricardo Morale I don't know um but it's it's
it's wild and so again I would I would not believe it if it weren't like so in line with my prior
understanding of what had happened which is that you know come on like it's like you have all
these things like the magic bullet the idea that like jolly west like mk ultra the like jack ruby
right afterwards like you literally can look at the JFK thing for like five hours and be like I
think there's some weird shit here you know oh yeah um so yeah it's wild man she hands like a
it's like a national treasure I don't understand how after that interview I asked I was like dude
how are you alive and he was like oh you know Jesse he's like yeah you can't be paranoid and you
got to just do your thing I mean I don't know you're gonna kill this guy yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah