that that documentary on jonathan wagan i like i'd heard of him but i had never heard any of
peru that happened yeah 1997 operation laser strike operation laser strike never heard of it
traffic in peru colombia bolivia all sorts of south american countries and the mac g the marine
air control group 28 was sent down alongside some elements of the air force and a pretty large joint
program including the cia to set up tps 43 and other radar systems to track some of these narco planes
kind of central peru aikitos peru which is northern peru because he wasn't privy to where he was taken
because he just gave a lot of details about the flight time down to peru details about time spent
downed aircraft by the time they reach the lz after a combination of driving and trekking
but wedged in there there's fluid leaking out of the craft there's what looks to be three hatches one
of them open with possibly a non-human arm hanging out of the craft and this liquid is like clear but
purple and green the best i can describe that is the mother of pearl effect similar to oil on water
uh wagant eventually kind of came to hearing montalier sorry hearing sergeants allen and
and jesse talked about jake barber and some of the psionics and stuff right he felt like there was
on stephen greer's uh disclosure project archive wow so he was part of the 2000 disclosure briefing
facing a lot of reprisals and he thought he was going to die wow so there's some stuff he doesn't
almost daily but i you talked to him daily yeah he's one of my good friends i love jonathan
a couple of u.s army ch-47 helicopters fly over them as these helicopters are getting to land at a
by a team of men in black camouflage and stop me if this sounds familiar when you hear cases like
michael herrera a team of men in black camouflage that apprehend the marines strip them of their gear
wagant being feisty being like 23 years old tries to swing at one of them
clocks him in the head and these guys at that point make an example out of wagant push his face
in the ground he gets more of the liquid on him beat the crap out of him and then out of the
helicopters come a team of people ranging from rain jackets to large hazmat gear mop gear mission
oriented protection posture marked and stamped with doe department of energy no shit and so a couple of
these doe guys in protective gear see wagant they strip him of his clothes wagant is handcuffed to a
stretcher his feet are gagged and he is put on a ch-47 out of there doesn't know what happened to
the department of energy has its own team it's called the nuclear emergency support team and this is
the world to react to nuclear or radiological signatures and one of the governing bodies of
uh uap disclosure disclosure amendment i know i'm familiar with it but i don't i don't know a lot of
of this amendment was to bring forth disclosure of ufo legacy programs programs hidden within the u.s
department of defense and intelligence communities that are housing exploiting or reverse engineering
technologies of unknown origin tuos and one of the governing bodies listed in this legislation
that hides some of these materials is the 1954 atomic energy act that considers ufo materials as
of spooky shit going on in south america in the 90s like there's a lot of there was a lot of uh ufo crash
incidents yeah and there was uh a lot of i think that jacques filet book was earlier than the 90s
um where like basically all these people were slaughtered have you heard of this
but um but yeah no south america and mexico that that period of time was like very active with
this kind of stuff well because same year we have uh virginia brazil yeah james fox's big case right
in 1978 in bolivia there was a case of a uh almost like a tic-tac like a cylindrical shaped object
crashing into the mountains of bolivia a u.s air force team called moon dust project moon dust was
dispatched to kind of investigate that region and i'm trying to think what else in mexico kind of
like what you're talking about in 1974 in mexico there's a pretty famous kind of underrepresented
crash retrieval case called coyame mexico northern mexico of a crash saucer that a mexican retrieval
team went to go get but there was some sort of toxic or biological hazard in the craft that killed the
entire mexican recovery team and then of course the americans and their ch-53 chinooks swooped in and took
the craft however there's of course an argument you can make that probably maybe our guys the
americans took them out but there's a south america and central america ton of crash retrieval stories
right and a lot of marine crash retrieval stories you have jonathan wagant you have like the testimony
of michael herrera and there are some other whistleblowers who aren't public who have talked
really interesting and then uh kind of rounding out the wagant story he was then on the on the 47
taken to an unknown base into an underground section of a base where he was held for two days
and why was he the only one that was taken out of there that's a great question my guess is because
there's a lot of anthrax boosters right after crash retrieval encounters but i i think that's why he's
isn't talking to them since no he doesn't like him they don't like him oh wow part of what's a little
weird about this case is one of those two adkins or allen i reached out to both one of them got back
my uap gerb email it doesn't have my information right none of that so i email one of them and they
respond hello my full name which is of course like a bully intimidation tactic and the guy just tried
shut them up shut people trying to shut him up yeah and that's part of the reason he um went to
talked to him but so he was pretty spooked sort of like the the men in black right if you would
these nest teams so these nest teams are part of the department of energy and it's basically like they
they comp they they bring in all of the like top tier special operators not quite and i'm sorry i should
have specified that more it's more of a science and technology team okay they just deal with the
stuff but the interesting thing about nest is of course it is a doe department but it operates out
of contractors contractors including raytheon uh lawrence livermore national labs sandia national labs
and egn g egn g of course is the infamous company bob lazar said hired him to work at area 51 s4 to
that would mean it's harder than granite right if it went through the granite what kind of material
is harder than granite i don't some sort of meta meta material maybe like a shield around it maybe
that translucent mother of pearl effect was some sort of shield like material and why did it crash i
there's a lot of really interesting ties that there were some backdoor programs for some space-based
shoot down weapons of ufos but what wagan thinks here is this was a hawk mim 23 airburst system that
just exploded near the target and some of the fragging just took it out oh like a shotgun blast yeah but
that's what he thinks right he doesn't have any sort of uh confirming evidence for that it's just
about like a three four-fingered arm hanging out the crowd yeah greer edited that out of of his of
uh kind of love and light communication and these beings were very friendly to jonathan asking for
but you know maybe he didn't want to maybe he thought like the descriptions of fingers and like some weird
alien arm hanging out would make it more unbelievable and he wanted to kind of like leave the stuff in there
that was more plausible yeah but with the stories of crash retrieval there's always the baggage of
biologics right some there's oh and so many cases with crash retrievals there's stories of biologics
and i think that for a lot of people is a big um big stretch to kind of wrap their head around because
existence maybe future humans like dr mike masters likes to kind of hypothesize on this crashing here
morphologies and so forth yeah i'm sure you've heard uh i'm sure you've heard the story of annie
jacobson's description of area 51 oh yeah she talked to from from eg and g what do you make of that
what the name is but this was a source of george knapp's 10 20 years before that the guy who worked
at eg and g at area 51 head of special projects okay this guy told george nap george told george
i remember seeing this he said that that director of special programs at eg and g told george nap
was his 2017 documentary unacknowledged that was the first time i ever heard of roswell specifically
jacobson that this was a russian experiment regardless of outside annie jacobson and george knapp
there's plenty about area 51 specifically and of course egng that's well worth investigation
and as well as that kind of dives into the subject of of contractors with ufo technology ufo materials
ufo bodies it's a it's a pretty deep rabbit hole that there's a lot to outside of just albert o'donald
annie seems pretty respectful i know she disagrees a lot with some of the more ufo stuff but doesn't
badge of somebody who worked at site four oh i don't know about that i don't know about that and of
it's like the auxiliary site below groom lake it's just south of room lake area 51 and then you have
of the stuff that were they were doing at area 51 right after world war ii and you know she explains
how the money was stolen i think it was dullest stole a bunch of money from the reconstruction in
europe fund to build area 51 and they were doing all kinds of crazy cia test flights and building you
kind of stuff probably and i also think that there's probably underground facilities beneath
of the 412th test wing the edwards 412th test wing is what's called a major range test facility
not blocked me snapchat this is a grown man and his his his official records do of course say he was at
worked on revert serving as the test director on reverse engineered vehicles kind of operating as the
existed between area 51 s4 and edwards is likely still going on today but of course that's a that's a
pretty that's a topic that requires a lot of kind of i guess credibility in ufo crash retrievals to
think about arv alien reproduction vehicles and kind of reverse engineering vehicles where what do you
think about that i know you've talked to jesse a little bit kind of on your stance about ufo where do
the tic tac type stuff tic tac uh triangles saucers i don't know i think i i think it's a mix of
some black aerospace or like lockheed or something like that some sort of like black technology that
nobody knows about maybe that's part of the 21 trillion dollars it's missing that catherine was
uh accounts of these underwater ufos coming out of the ocean in like 1717 which is crazy and and and
since talking to him it's you know it's apparent that there's just a mixed bag of here like is it
something that's been here for for millions of years that lives under the water um is it it's
something to do with it the towns and brown stuff you know there's there's so many pieces of this puzzle
it's crazy well i know you and uh dolan were talking about the subject of uso and i know you guys
interesting crash retrieval stories so how come i've never heard of the underwater is it classified
that's crap that calls it the hidden younger brother of the nro so in u.s intelligence you
so i sent them a little bit of stuff on neuro and they went oh so there's a couple there's a couple
more about neuro as well as former admiral director of naval intelligence cia deputy director
which is interesting he said when he became director of naval intelligence he wore another hat that was
so neuro was started in 1969 and it was started to kind of coordinate the navies and the cia's
cia's activities right and so part of the the founding programs for neuro were to kind of coordinate
operations keep track of and uh commence missions with some of our sensitive nuclear submarines
kind of tap undersea cables i think this was called the ivy bells program and as well as just
cia's directorate of science and technology now that directorate of science and technology we can talk
but really early on the cia just kind of took command of neuro and it wasn't until 1972 three years after its
creation that john warner secretary of the navy was finally put as neuro's director but then it
changed hands back a little bit because in 74 bobby ray inman became director of neuro and of course he
went on to be a cia spook so neuro's kind of claim to fame is using vessels like the uss halibut
have you heard of the glomar explorer yeah yeah so so k129 soviet sub crashes near hawaii a little bit northwest
right and conventional wisdom only a third of the k129 is retrieved uh maybe more probably more and it
really really interesting kind of connections with neuro come with uh chief scientist of special
deep submergent systems project the dssp and i'm sorry there's a ton of acronyms i'll try to spell
craven receives a classified briefing of something called project sand dollar sand dollar is oh yeah
the earliest probably sap within sap within sap we can kind of make sense of it was a program that was
inventory of a collection of objects on the sea floor for national security importance uh ranging from
be vehicles that kind of can satisfy the dssp so the dsrv the deep submergence rescue vehicle is supposed to be
basically a submarine rescue vehicle uh this was out of response to the loss of the uss thresher
but only two dsrvs were ever built the mystic and avalon out of lockheed martin so there were only two
of those ever built however that brings me to a um a really interesting crash retrieval story
so in you know our the art bell show right yes so in 2002 i think it was about summer of 2002
on a dsrv crew and so this guy tells the story of in 1991 or 1992 as i'm getting the dates a little
bit wrong there was a survey ship in the north atlantic about 250 miles outside of aberdeen
rockwell rock all trough in the north atlantic just northwest of aberdeen scotland because i looked at
so where specifically would it be the rock all trough the rock all trough yes rock all pull up a map of
vehicle one of the two because craven said that john p craven remember chief scientist of special
projects out of the navy that although there were never official missions for dsrv or dssv because
dssv have operational depths of 20 000 feet but were apparently never built but used according to
see a large triangle wedged in the seafloor the triangle has no cockpit no visible means of propulsion
no visible means of propulsion nothing they can see so the team goes back up informs the the steamship
the marine archaeologist estimates that that triangle had been buried within the the the kind of the
about the weight of an f-14 right and an f-14 is interesting because the nr1 had previously recovered
kind of brought up to the ocean surface the craft is eventually rigged up mark once the dsrv crew is
back on board gets to see the craft again this time in person about 70 feet long a little bit rounded of
about this not sold to sign any ndas or anything which is kind of interesting but apparently the
and i'm trying to track this down because mark uh drew sketches of this for art bell and he also
provided art bell the names of the other navy guys he was with so i want to track these guys down and
something to to get after yeah i wonder how many more stories there are like that of retrieving stuff
under the oceans you know because you don't really hear about that kind of stuff no there's 1967 shag harbor
of course which occurred in canada but here's a real treat in 1972 there was an encounter of a
he went by the pseudonym rk related his story to leonard stringfield leonard stringfield is one of
the greatest ufo crash retrieval investigators of all time wrote status reports one through seven on ufo crash
retrievals rk claimed that in 72 at the great lakes naval station in chicago he was tasked to kind of
large metallic teardrop shaped craft no visible means of propulsion looks like a teardrop looks like a
naval destroyer and recovered by the glomar explorer north of hawaii in 1972 wow i think we've explored
more the moon than we have of our own ocean floors it's crazy and if you look at we were talking about
can see there's a there's a no land yeah it covers a more huge it's like a massive amount of this earth
is ocean so what's interesting about the the creation of neuro the deep submergent systems project and all
this in 1964 it seems like sand dollar had existed previously with an itemized inventory of everything
that existed on the sea floor of national security interest but until craven created the the dss
items so it seemed like the us navy had a large itemized inventory of all of these objects on the
point of like underwater bases right yeah there's a uh there's a great author his name's richard
worldwide which is really interesting and of course there's it's it's very likely that there are like
undersea neuro bases for submarine refueling and such but oh that i mean the concept of undersea
least for it seems like optimal though right yeah for cooling especially if you have some sort of
high temperature reactor i mean right in the 1960s the u.s army corps of engineer published a bunch
of deep basing studies on where to place deep underground military bases throughout the continental united
states but also published a ton of papers such as like uh self-contained nuclear reactors to power
stiffs subterranean facilities and so forth wow yeah that's one of the things that katherine was saying
that a lot of the missing money she thinks has been going to funding these constructions of these
underground bases yeah that's i think one of the most interesting topics in this subject because you
and he said that the train went so fast it reminded him of his fear of flying
oh my god because a lot of people will look at the kind of underground bases systems and connective
research and development center ffrdc one of the employees high up scientists of the rand corporation
tunnel system and of course if these tunnel systems exist i i think it's highly likely we
got some of that technology and ideas from the nazis yeah um you know before before the end of world
pneumatic train system to exist under germany and to connect berlin to france or paris and a network of
not a concept that's really interesting so xavier dorsch was head of the tot organization in nazi
of government sites such as the regan worm logger in poland and ordroff which are these really really
system connecting it it was self-contained and so xavier dorsch was one of these swizz kid engineers
for the tot organization which is similar to the u.s army corps of engineers in 1947 with operation
paperclip where the u.s brought over a bunch of nazi scientists there was one report from air material
facilities or stiffs immediately began began construction because we plucked some of the nazis
that would explain where a lot of that money is going that katherine fitz was talking about those
trillions of dollars not cheap right no it's definitely not cheap and you know the other
question is who who's in charge of it yeah who has control over all of it you know analyzing the
structure of the supposed ufo legacy programs is so difficult to track right you know if there are
programs which of course i i believe very strongly there are that there are dod contractor ffrdc uarc
engineering of non-human technologies how are these programs structured uh what sort of communication is
done across the programs how are the intelligence communities involved and at the top of this who is
project not like a cia project all of this is inherently born within saps and usaps unacknowledged
chiefs of staff people can't even get access to some of this stuff and that's it and the way he was
describing it to me is like imagine if lockheed or one of these companies like this got so much
where they're kind of like a like a breakaway military superpower that like doesn't have to
answer to anybody if like katherine austin fitz says if there is a some sort of segment existing
believe they do of course they have a tremendous amount of advantages over any traditional human
it wrong but he said something to the effect of like when hits the fan at least we have the spaceships
some of these joint chiefs not being accessed he's talking about thomas wilson from the wilson davis memo
who was deputy director of the dia at the time i believe um and he tried to gain access to some
of these programs and was stonewalled by the special access program oversight committee senior review group
like let's say that some of his uh starlink satellites are interfering with the nro's ai sentient program
monitored tic tacs over redacted locations then elon might be tangentially briefed on some aspects of
you would imagine that he's got some sort of peripheral knowledge of something even if he does
joe and jesse both said no i i think elon's bsing a little bit about that because it's the world of
lot of egng in nevada and this harkens back to 1997 where uh stephen greer uh brigadier general
stephen lovekin commander will miller of the u.s navy and astronaut edgar mitchell engaged in briefings
happened even though he disputes the memo that they briefed wilson into the reality of ufo special
some of these programs but what's really interesting about that is one of the contractors that i i think
are up to their eyeballs in ufo legacy program operations is north of grumman creator of the b2
creator of the b21 spirit bomber they in 2003 absorbed a company called trw trw are the great richard
bdm is of course a company that u.s army general of inscom albert stubblebine who's really interesting
i've talked to and in conversations i've had the the army participates in a lot of research development
tests and evaluation of non-human technology but does it in a very streamlined fashion with contracts
see that crash that craft in peru wasn't there reports of something flying in and out of the atmosphere
one of the high profile programs that track ufos and there's old old stories i think this is in the 80s of
dsp satellites monitoring ufos that pass within a mile and a half at 22 000 miles per hour of the
there some part of laser strike that knew there was ufo activity in tracking this stuff i mean 22 000
all wagant knows is that he was he and the other grunts were just kind of set off set out to uncover
wasn't a secret thing the i think the biggest question of that whole operation is who were
a couple years from jonathan's encounter in 1997 the cia director of science and technology deputy
director carl wolf began what's called the cia's office of global access the office of global access
times who's incredibly brilliant of running foreign crash retrieval programs and working with jsoc joint
special operations command so one must ask was this an element of jsoc retrieval teams of course
before he went public jake barber under a pseudonym wrote the sentinels of ether little manuscript where he
talked about kind of blue on blue retrieval team action and a jsoc unit firing upon u.s forces that
operators it's it's it's a really interesting question because there's tons of testimony of
video of local seven u.s army seven special forces green berets just plugged in said hey you got to go
then he was basically like oh my god i was a part of this yeah and that's when he allegedly decided to
jake barber was tasked to infiltrate greer's camp um and kind of try and maybe set up whistleblowers i
at nellis air force base and uh kind of witnessing the touchdown of a sunflower extraterrestrial craft
some of the whistleblowers no excuse right i the operational security is so bad i should not be able to do that
somebody else unless agency folks have done that and kind of tracked down whistleblowers and threaten
them with their pension because some some of these high-level whistleblowers have uh spoken to greer in
project that's the crazy thing about him i mean a lot of people everybody hates greer for the most part
forward the most amount of whistleblowers that have divulged the most amount of information so like
relationship he called me an intelligence asset so i'm not i'm not too and he's also hurt many of my
friends so i'm not too high up on greer i i think that he kind of has his own vested interest in a lot
of uh the testimonies he receives i think he treats whistleblowers that come to him like his
whistleblowers yeah instead of their own autonomous people that should be directed to you know people
about that uh i don't i i don't i would rather err on the side of like pushing for disclosure instead
of like trying to get into like interpersonal problems and so forth especially a character like
lou who is surrounded by a lot of controversy yeah i i do think and all i'll say is i i think more
counterintelligence field activity oh yeah yeah uh i on a pedestal of of like high level whistleblowers i
for the disclosure project i don't know if he still does a lot of people used to work for the
disclosure project leslie kane uh you know the article of the 2017 new york times article she used
with greer and i think back in the day greer had a little bit of a different mindset uh i think maybe
some of the problems with him arose more in the future but that that that drama between the two is
whole thing and i think it's probably intentional and then the combination of the combination of like
careers on this stuff um you know i'm not innocent of it i do podcasts i make money on podcasts about ufos so
sean kirkpatrick the head of arrow who is fraught with a lot of uh really weird past so you're familiar
with dr sean kirkpatrick of arrow right well sean kirkpatrick has a very checkered past before arrow and
pretty interesting future after arrow so sean kirkpatrick gets a hold of arrow in like 2022
and uh moultrie famously in in 2022 kind of debunked the subject of ufos and so forth kirkpatrick used to
all that uh really whiny and then he goes on to work at oak ridge which is a department of energy uh ffrdc
university systems that are semi-private but mostly kind of dod and government owned that's why uh you
know one of my big theories is that a lot of these programs operate with the subject matter experts and
government oh interesting we can talk a little bit more about that because there's a lot of
and a lot of that good stuff but uh additionally since 2025 sean kirkpatrick he had formed his own
llc called non-linear solutions and as of 2025 non-linear solutions is contracting for the miter
special forces first of all michael never said extraterrestrial vehicle he always thought this
all questions that must be asked is arrow honeypot why is tim phillips the deputy director of arrow
at the end of 2024 dr john kozlowski now arrow director said arrow is now working with ffrdc's
the more of this stuff i hear it's just like it seems like it seems like all this stuff just is
barber stuff sounds exactly like stranger things yeah yeah well speaking of of star wars have you
heard of the mark mccandless story no and brad sorenson okay this is in my opinion one of the
greatest alien reproduction vehicle stories of all time and we can also i'm sure you've heard the term
where a lot of the clandestine aircraft r d of our nation takes place also a region which i think is
a huge network of underground subterranean facilities but you know we'll talk about that later but
so aerospace illustrator mark mccandless who had done a lot of work for popular mechanics uh various
because i'm directly referencing that interview because that's that's some of the things people
well brad sorenson talked about it in this interview and some of the details around that are really
interesting so brad sorenson went to the norton air show tons of interesting aircraft pretty cool
but at some point during the show the under sect of or whoever he was with took him to a classified
two enter the hangar and remember this is all according to brad sorenson and in there there's a lot of
what yeah that's some of the military brass were were kind of boasting that they could destroy every
undersea uav yeah bro look at that look at that thing it looks like a bird of course the lockheed
explanation for so many of this you have so much of this i think so yeah i had this guy uh david
he was he came in here with like a whole uh presentation of classified military aircraft
and reconnaissance balloons and all kinds of things that explain he basically explained away most of like
the most famous ufo sightings ever really including the phoenix lights he showed uh us like images of
something like this and it was the exact shape of the phoenix lights flying the same exact size
just giant black like tube balloons whoa yeah i you know i agree with you that a lot of what's seen is
a pretty mundane prosaic explanation or a classified military tech that a lot of it
technology as that lockheed cormorant and then he's brought to the the final section of the exhibit
videotape of i think it's the smallest flux liner um kind of bouncing jaggedly over like a desert surface
camera arrays that to kind of create a 3d picture of where the craft going those seats are f4 phantom
tried to reverse engineer the propulsion systems of these craft as as well as possible and these
air force captain harvey williams about 20 12 000 to 20 000 feet over provo utah captured an image of a
flying saucer that looks exactly like one of these but it looks like an evolution of the flux liner
would would decrease and you can kind of re rethink the acrylic bubbles but um this is the this is the
story of the flux liner and mark mccandlish would draw what brad told him because brad didn't want
mccandlish would would you know create a line art drawing of this and he he would take it all around
struck with a very rare and aggressive form of cancer and dies within three months and mark mccandlish
ordered an autopsy report on him so did the editor of the documentary that i've talked to
throw themselves out of a window and so james allen right before that documentary is released goes
that he slept with a pillow under his his pillow because he was also afraid of what was going to
and he you know there's some rumors according to some close sources of uh mark mccandlish that he
interesting because this was relayed by mark mccandlish for the better part of 30 years right
once i find that and put up a video of the flux liner i get a call from a ufo researcher very well-known
story was always second hand with mark mccandlish and not brad sorenson and what's weirder is i one of
internal for who exactly why because i messaged brad sorenson i emailed right and the amount of
brad there's more than meets the eye to brad here and so brad kind of gave me a little bit of the
and that's just one instance of a alien reproduction vehicle there's another really interesting thing
the three four lights on the bottom the big red light and then three lights on the kind of the
exterior of the triangle i think i know what you're talking about well so see if you can find a picture
of it steve just to make sure there's a a forensic artist named bill mcdonald he worked with uh yeah
robert wood of mcdonald douglas who are some some great investigators into the majestic 12 documents and so we
created all sorts of art and all sorts of ufo art worked with various films to create craft and so
forth in 1992 in antelope valley california kind of the aerospace hub of of the united states he met
illustrate the reverse engineered craft they had been working on that they are so tired of the secrecy
around so uh bill mcdonald of course drew that craft it's really interesting steve can you look up
yeah first first one right there but what's interesting here is are you a fan of the x-files
yes okay so season one episode one of the x-files not the pilot but it's the episode called deep
the first season of the x-files was based went up to bill mcdonald and contracted him to use to use
i'd like to press more into that because that's another possible example of a alien reproduction
just a ton ton of there's so much overlap in movie and television in real life bro it's crazy
it's like in a in close encounters of the third time third kind there's large crates and boxes of
like et to some high up military officials who kind of commented how et and like the subject of
seems to be pretty tapped in he's working on another kind of ufo film uh lately yeah i heard
about it um yeah bro so the jake barber stuff like the psionic stuff um what do you make of all that
it's it's so it's so interesting but i was kind of of the mind that before you introduce subjects like
psionics which requires a lot of of understanding and faith into like remote viewing um psi research
which you know the stargate program and saic did a heck of a lot into but i think before that was
introduced there needs to be a more firm understanding of crash retrieval and reverse engineering okay
and we retrieve them but the the subject of i would still be pretty keen to see a demonstration of
first of all they're from like this remote part of the world they're not really connected from tech to
somebody farts and you didn't have the sense of smell or a nose you'd just be sitting in their
don't have the senses to detect right you know right and you know the subject of psionics is nothing new
uh you can look back to the claims of of lieutenant colonel philip j corso who of course he's infamous for
the book the day after roswell which has a bunch of added nonsense from right co-writer bill burns if
but he even talks about some of the technologies leveraged and utilized from the roswell crash
really interesting it's it's perplexing that he says that because of course psionics did he expand
and if you look at the old uh old files of leonard stringfield he talks multiple times about headband
that a lot of the time with like uh you really got to slow down and demonstrate the capabilities of
this of this first because i know with sky watchers there's still gray area about what they're summoning
right like each youtube video creates a lot of discourse of of you know the the pinpricks of
firm demonstration needs to be made and then you can kind of bring in some of the baggage with that
because psionics is a really interesting and topic with a lot of baggage because i know i think it was
specific diet yeah and like given certain medications something like this yeah one of the
of eggheads and uh lab coats brought in a briefcase and opened it up and it was a like a metallic swirling
sphere in there almost like a palantir and told to just kind of look into it and react to it uh
the description of that sphere is almost identical to a witness that jesse and i both covered uh randy
he was one of two guys in the green beret unit with um you know high clearance levels for a
technologies division and a piece of technology that was by all intents and purposes a identical
end of the day for disclosure and how these things are brought about what does the navy do what does
the air force do what does the army do in terms of ufo crash retrieval reverse engineering how
that's a big that's a really interesting question as well that i think there's a lot of funding
of authority funds just completely wiped off the books you know i've also been privy to conversations
with individuals who have seen cash transactions huge pallets of cash trans transacted for ufo legacy
programs and then of course you have uh katherine austin fitz who talks about really creative funding uh from the
kind of contract work if you don't mind oh yeah so saic first of all has been in some hot water for
that completely didn't work but the nsa kind of was fraud was fraudulently charged by saic for all of
this money saic has enormous contracts many of which don't make any sense like a recent 280 million
dollar contract with sandia national labs which is a department of energy ffrdc for it consolidation work
hmm how does it work you know take 280 million dollars of course with saic we've talked about
kirkpatrick saic has insane ties to the wilson davis memo saic has ties to director of neuro bobby ray
to do on the job and eventually a bunch of letters come in while she's working at saic that are
some in hundreds of million dollars some millions of dollars some tens of millions of dollars and
she's working in the building where saic does all sorts of classified chemical and biological
and dugway proving ground and so she goes to her superiors because she wants to kind of impress
out she gets reprimanded by her superiors all the files are taken away she's harassed by one of the
in the early days of the internet she finds sophia's picture same first name different last name on a
saic remember this took place in 1992 apparently died in 1998 all sorts of weird things going on
saic took over yeah yeah yeah saic huge huge into uh like telepathy telekinesis they have lots of
seriously because as recently as 2013 the office of naval research published a study like a revolutionary
study on human sixth sense using like precognition in humans almost to to kind of get a jump on things so
really really weird discussion of contracts and and like human remote viewing at saic
reading that article all about the creation of google yeah how that basically google was incubated by like
understand that history of of how it was how google was created and who they were working with and look
influence the narrative of the public and censor certain speech and and boost other speech and using you
virtually every aspect of your life and you know you rely and and most people a lot of people rely
committee on intelligence that said saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction and thus the united
states needed to invade iraq and when no weapons of mass destruction were found they chaired the same
intelligence agencies and saic of any involvement so they can really influence public perception in a
massive way even like dod high level perception and and kind of government perception yeah man it's
crazy but like going back to what we were we were just got we were discussing like um you know some of
nuclear war she talks a lot about the department of energy which from what i understand is
is you might know more about this than i do but the doe the department of energy essentially is like
of like what types of light bulbs we're allowed to use or sell the i mean the doe is truly an enormous
livermore national labs sandia national labs oak ridge etc where you know i i have some degree of
of confidence that there are reverse engineering and retrieval operations you know being conducted at
craft being housed any testimony you can always do a couple extra steps of research and find out some
undersecretary of defense for intelligence and security who error reported to but so i i think
kind of doing some some secret projects on that wasn't really declassified into the early 60s when
there's also a i know of an individual that i did a video on this this took place at dugway proving
in the aviary area of doug way which is you know an air force pretty pretty extensive contractor
test center which specializes in chemical and biological work if you look at the history of
runs multiple ffrdc's like the out near fort dietrich maryland and that kind of region which has really
high profile biological and chemical work that there's some rumors that that's where some of the bodies
of uh extraterrestrials or non-human intelligence are stored battelle also really smartly battelle
kind of set the playbook by forming something called triad national security it was battelle a
almost almost like a chemical and biological subject matter expert there's there's one of those nickel
it crossed it's edward something but it's a name it's a name that worked on one of the you know
flying saucers essentially yeah i remember jeremy wriss he he went to one of the big hearings i think
what's i've never heard of that and he was like he's like okay it's spelled this go to this website
it'd be northrop grumman it would be latos which saic kind of spun off from in 2013 because saic got too
yeah l3 harris and yeah probably some of the biggest then ffrdc is i'd say the mitre corporation
i i have quite a a bit of knowledge on the mitre corporation the rand corporation uh the aerospace
out of usaff project rand which was kind of involved with underground constructions but the aerospace
a really interesting lineup of dates and including eric davis said to me he didn't name drop it
specifically but the aerospace corporation is the one ffrdc he knew of that engages with this stuff
this was started by dr eric a walker dr eric a walker is one of the most underrepresented figures
in all of ufo in my opinion back in 1950 i consultant to the defense research science board or the r d
of understand them reverse engineer them are headed by dr vannevar bush and the matter isn't top secret
canadian department of transport memo that wilbert smith then created uh two ufo projects for canada
kexberg pennsylvania crash not only admitted that he knew about the majestic 12 but also said one of the
he said something along the lines of what do you know about esp extrasensory perception unless you
walker who started the applied research laboratory pennsylvania's uarc is is one of the most underrepresented
and entwined guys and kind of ufo lore of all time because this guy said he was at the 65 kexberg crash
foundation of all of this stuff man and it's also like the the convenient thing about it is it's the
of anti-gravity or like aircraft that aerospace companies are making but as soon as you start
i you know i i think that i do think because i've never seen demonstrations of remote viewing or psi or
psionics this stuff work i i am i'm of the mind also like many of the skeptics i i think there should be
demonstrations of such a thing i'd like to see demonstrations of remote viewing of psionics and
stuff because just like you and just like a lot of the public that is the hardest part for me to wrap
started to look at some of these whistleblowers you know like hmm is this guy legit who do you look at
skeptically how do i know if i want to trust this guy right um i mean a lot of them man i i don't know
of them and you know some of the guys like i think the guy that that jesse interviewed the um
disconnected from it they seem to be the most credible and they're like kind of like one-off
their planet ran out of water and they're coming here to take over in about 15 years if they're
the bottom of any of this stuff well specifically doty has been rearing his head recently he was on
was talking about something else so doty's always still kind of flirting around and then there's of
would be shown pictures of flying saucers made to sign an nda until though we have secret alien technology
something on twitter this morning about like some sort of wall street journal article oh yeah no
brought up to the front gate of malmstrom afb 60 feet in the air and basically took a a bunch of
sophisticated disinformation campaigns since the 1950s i mean 1953 right after the sightings of ufos
possible imprisonment so all along the way you have all of these psyops and you have all these interesting
things then of course we have all sap and then a tip recently those um bigelow aerospace the slides
of money trying to understand this crazy stuff that's like it's like almost stuff that's impossible
to like measure and it's like sci-fi woo-woo stuff that he's interested in and he's like one of the
biggest investors in this ufo aerospace stuff yeah and then according to some of the the bass documents
david fravor as like a human-made creation and so forth you see some of those this this all started
essentially kind of keep emergent technologies from surfacing and then provided a bunch of the bass
of course on reddit you got to be a little careful with any whistleblower same thing with reddit and
that especially kind of you're right the big low is really interesting how he's so into more of the
can really kind of itemize and list out and yeah and draw chains of custody and and so forth so some
of that esoteric stuff i'll leave that in the consciousness studies to jesse because he's got a
your hour and 45 minutes into the history of this case that happened in peru freaking decades ago and
nest so a lot of these crash retrieval cases whistleblowers corporations involved they you
know i i'm not solving anything i'm trying to i'm doing the best to get to the bottom of it but
platform and i'm trying to just talk about like the news of the day you kind of get bogged down you
kind of like lose your footing in what you're really trying to in like the real investigations that
conclusions like it's i make these projects very selfishly for myself sometimes because a lot of the time
when i'm researching or doing the investigation i can kind of click with various things and i also
that is is there was um a bunch of stuff in that book about like velcro and kevlar and all these like
think that was real some of them were added some of them weren't but the distinguishing difference
that a lot of these stuff weren't copied like the technology wasn't basically seeded from craft but
we as humans had our own evolution of these technologies and an understanding of a different
variation of something like the transistor integrated circuit allowed for further advancements of our
pulling like a more advanced transistor type piece of technology off the roswell crash may have allowed
non-human technology not inventing technology out of the ether because we just pull it from a non-human
from other technology on existing technologies right there's still a lot of questions with corso right
like we can't there's a lot of rebuttals for most of that technology created i mean even passive night vision
super dry it repeats itself dozens if not hundreds of times but it just is is basically corso's words
to make something sell to hollywood so there's a lot of added information that i i really understand
think the most interesting example of where john alexander was president present was 1985 at the
this was an event that okie shannon if you've heard of okie shannon he was director of like special
right which is really interesting a lot of it was ran by john alexander and at that time new bdm board
alexander including a massive mention of a i think it says like huge engineering project under bobby
ray inman and of course that's somebody we talked about right no bobby ray inman is the neuro guy he's
the cia guy he's the nsa guy he's the saic guy he's the wackenhut guy oh wow what he's he's one of the
main villains of this of this entire story i'd say something i forgot to tell you about is in 1989
that but directs eschler to current cia dsnt director of science and technology deputy director
heineman freaks out says no don't talk to me nothing there heineman was also director of the nro program
b and was actually the first one of the first heads of pine gap when it opened up in the 70s
in that area of research but back to inman inman also appointed bob eschler nasa mission specialist to former
director of naval intelligence sumner shapiro sumner shapiro was also a bdm board member but sumner
up close but they were shipped between different doe laboratories and some of them featured interlocking
so bobby ray inman you know points bob eschler to all sorts of these guys bobby ray inman is former
director of neuro cia all this but then in 2020 and this echoes the present very well bobby ray
talk it basically explains how like all of these things are connected with wackenhut the cia and all
of these different scandals that have ever happened from like watergate to like iran contra and all this
stuff it's all a part of this big crazy deep state blob octopus uh and all these tentacles are
attached to one another and danny casolero got to the bottom of this thing
department of energy uh i mentioned the department of energy special response teams that are like
armed guards and so forth that will be inside of a ufo facility guarding the usap program locations and
so forth so i think wackenhut is intimately entwined and bobby ray inman he was a board member of wackenhut
it's interesting he said that uh he was the guy who said that a bunch of the stuff can be explained
away with a conventional explanation all i think some of them definitely can yeah i agree i think i think
even the uh the the stuff that was leaked by the the 2017 uh new york times stuff yeah the footage of
the the i forget if it's the go fast there's one of them where the basically it shows the thing flying
parallax of the water underneath it to make it looks like it's it looks like it's going 10 times faster
than it could be a bird yeah flying across the surface of the water i i agree with you i i don't
think those videos are the cream of the crop definitive anything i i in fact i think that video and picture
evidence is some of the the least compelling stuff we can get i'm i'm with you the debate still rages on
made on a single one of them right besides maybe just the go fast and it kind of downgrading it to
getting okay so matt brown wrote the uh immaculate constellation report oh yes okay some of those
matt brown who you know i put a lot of faith in was a reactionary special access program formed i
think 2017 2018 to kind of catalog various morphologies sightings databases of of ufo sightings
and there's been a lot of discussion that everything matt brown found was in a shriever war games file i i
highly doubt that but within the immaculate constellation report there's detailing of you know videos and imagery
from satellites of morphologies of craft from everything to triangles hovering over the indo-pacific
and created the immaculate constellation report which was presented to uh the house in november of 2024
and nancy mace entered it without you know jeremy's page a lot of drama there but it's a really
interesting report and uh of course matt brown just did a three-part interview series with jeremy
near virginia of having hangers owned by amentum i think it is uh that house some recovered craft really
mm-hmm wow let's let's see that dang satellite footage of that saucer resting in the clouds because
that's the type of of footage that's that's going to be compelling you know recently there was the lou
alizando kerfuffle of presenting the irrigation circles did you see that no oh my goodness so at the uap oh
talking about four types of non-human species and as well as most retrievals being maritime
retrievals which would then create a whole new world of investigation for us in neuro and then uh
and it's just two elevation circles that has a small illusion of of being like a saucer hanging
over a flat land that that's the kind of stuff that actively hurts the topic very badly yeah that's
to vet it but if he can't vet it and eric davis has just talked about four species of non-humans and
posted by lou of a chandelier in hungary do you remember that photo no it was a reflection of a
anyone have you seen the video i'm sure you've seen the video of the uh what do they call it the the
yeah the jellyfish looks like a cluster of balloons gosh yeah it's it's so hard to tell with
because jeremy corbell posted the said the full video shows the thing rising out of the water
that a cluster of balloons or other prosaic explanations are are perfectly reasonable yeah
oh six six eight eighteen twenty six yes exactly and that whole story of that guy that guy's testimony of
that giant freaking ship the size of like 15 football fields pulling up right next to him
that's bizarre and there was also a radar guy apparently that like corroborated all of it because
you remember the the pilot of the japan airlines flight i think this was in 1986 said that huge
craft basically orbited around his plane at insane speeds as well and he tried to take a picture of
compelling case there's also a spanish airliner case in the 70s of an actual plane uh commercial
that sort of multi-sensor detection is is really what what can help push the envelope and kevin knuth is
about some of like the physics and experience g-forces by craft in in that sighting in the graham
changed from a high elevation to just above sea water it could have experienced up to 5500 g's of
accelerated force yeah which is crazy yeah there's a lot i mean there's a lot of sightings from pilots and
convenient yeah but what about the radar that like they have all kinds of i'm sure they have all kinds
of of sensors that can detect anything around them and sonar and and all this stuff and they spend so
she was showing us a map of all the submarine highways around the world for all the countries
nuclear submarines patrolling everywhere so um there's got to be tons of reports from these nuclear
sites it stands to reason that ufos would swarm nuclear subs of course as well loaded with warheads
and there's a lot of of so in project blue book there's a great documents like the unexplained of
blue book and it's just all the really unexplained sightings that had no real conclusion and some of
them are of course maritime and uh uso sightings and some of these are like tic tacs hovering above
the water in 1950 and i think kevin knuth talked about a new zealand destroyer case just off of new
going to spoil it because i plan to talk to him uh kind of soon on one of my programs but that
some sort of interest or investigations into this stuff from new people at nasa well plenty of nasa
even before he was uh on nasa flights kind of chasing ufos in a in a jet while in service and there's
there i can't recall them off the top of my head but there are stories of like lunar or apollo
them there's allegedly a tape taken by one of the apollo astronauts there's the testimony of of this
is a famous greer testimony of donna hare she was a former nasa employee who claimed that nasa would
airbrush ufos out of various satellite imagery or space imagery but i i agree but it already is somehow
left out of the club nasa is pretty underfunded nasa doesn't have some of the most cutting-edge
technology i i think at least to me it seems like a lot of the cutting-edge technology and actual craft
it's relegated to asymmetrical warfare advantages and that stuff's going to be kept in the deep black of
jason georgiani was telling me a story of a guy who i think he worked at nasa but was like shown
was privy to some of these images and was like gobsmacked and so excited for the upcoming news
interesting stuff on the moon i know jesse and joe were talking about the dark side of the moon how
you know the moon's tidally locked so a lot of the time the dark side faces away from us but also
branch of service but was talking about how the chinese are mining helium three on the moon oh really
for power sources that's crazy because we haven't had a we haven't the us hasn't had a person out of
image of like a huge saucer shaped i'm sorry cigar shaped craft in front of one of our jovian planets
maybe there is uh maybe there have been arvs that have been taken for a spin outside of uh outside of
lot of really big questions that like need answers about the moon landing like like how did they how do
they lose all of the data right on the moon landing stuff they they claim that if you i asked chat gpt
chat gpt will tell you that the response or the the answer to why they lost all of that information
then they to rewrite stuff and they accidentally like erased it or whatever so so now we have none of
like it's also the only it's also the only technological feat in any sort of uh industry
or any sort of technology that hasn't event advanced or like exponentially grown since it was first
destroyed the footage that we had at the moon landing or oh yeah it kind of keeps us close to home
like june of next year remember we were supposed to go to mars in 2025 and even back in the the 60s and
70s out of the rand corporation and stuff there were all sorts of plans for lunar bases and like lunar
tunnel systems for trains huge plants what none of these there was supposed to be maglev systems on
underground on the moon like yeah maglev trains and none of this ever transpired it it is curious
taken the time to sit through and sift through it but it's so interesting and that period of time
in the middle of the cold war was when the united states was there was so much deception and so much
is automatically painted as a fool yeah yeah anything should be questioned one of the speaking about
reproduction vehicle i forgot to mention one of the interesting things brad sorenson said is
that some of these suit and ties showing off the flux liner claimed that the flux liner had been
taken to various places in our solar system because this thing flew at basically this the speed of
flight using zero point energy systems and that our own solar system was devoid of of other intelligent
fits is so she uh sent me this book called uh i think it's called the rings of saturn have you heard of
of the first probe that got like really close to saturn took a photo of the uh the ring around
saturn and the i haven't read the book yet but but apparently the claim of the book is that they found
like some sort of weird looking vehicle that was like whoa parked inside of the ring of saturn i i think
of bankers trying to get off the the freaking earth in case something happens and um you know all this ufo
she's a very credible person yeah and she's really hip to the kind of ufo lore and the ufo subject she
had like a series of 20 like 25 interviews over the years on dark journalist and i watched every
things and she's really dialed in with a lot of these subjects she blew my mind when she was explaining
and not looking at the black hole of the trillions of dollars missing from the pentagon
yeah like and and her what she was saying was that elon's deliberately trying to like get all of
beings inside of the united states and integrate that with xai and palantir ai and elon's been you know
through this centralized wechat and and um the fact that he's you know talked so highly of the wechat
palantir and integrating all this stuff and using all of the hhs social security and irs data to
dollar contract two weeks ago uh i don't think there's any uh optimistic outcome no of doing
goodness part of it had something to do with uh elon really wanted this specific person to be the head
of nasa and trump said no i don't want that guy to be the head of nasa because he said something was
fishy about him or something what that twitter beef came out of nowhere that was really shocking to see
because then of course uh elon implicated trump in the epstein files and he said that's why they're not
you're not optimistic about uh this kind of doge platform a because we would lead towards a even
even get to the bottom of where these dollars are going right yeah apparently apparently all you know
pentagon is missing and the trillions of dollars like why didn't he go look for that because those
are funneled into black holes and they're so one of the things i i really want to understand that i
transactions skimming off contracts overcharging uh all sort of siphoning off funds leftover funds
end of fiscal year the amount of creative accounting must be a nightmare to to try and track any of it
program accounting that that'd be a couple of some people's dream that'd be katherine
see somebody like her looking at it from the looking at it through the lens of accounting yeah
you know and it needs to be done because especially for the subject of like deep underground military
bases back in the 60s and 70s the us army corps of engineer like we talked about published a ton of
level costs and kind of come to conclusions that these bases could be constructed they could be
constructed in pre-existing cavities without uh too much expenditure out of out of the budget and
there's also discussion that some of these tunnels between these underground bases are used are of
course cored out via tunnel boring machines tbms but that a lot of these projects to find these
dollars we might have to look at the bureau of reclamation that have dug out tunnels all across
clandestine secondary operations to track those monies and one of the questions with these uh these
of like catastrophe and that's the main idea of people that build their own bunkers is like how
how are you going to power it once you run out of fuel like like i don't do they have some sort of
you know you and i'd be screwed i i live in in denver there's a massive fema continuity of
there all of these sites a lot of them are for continuity of government but then there's deeper
layers there's there's huge stiffs existing around and a lot of them are provable for example the manzano
national labs also in new mexico is an acknowledged stiff and then there are uh the army corps of engineers
there's historical conspiracies of massive underground facilities below china lake
proving ground in arizona and back in the 60s the u.s army corps of engineers did a ton of deep basing
built without having to core out any more rock so some of these places there are some u.s army corps of
engineer studies that some of these underground locations can be located up to 8 000 feet underground
imagine they they have to have some sort of setup on the moon like some sort of base oh agree if we
hard to believe that that we haven't set up something there to like at least back up the data of humanity
you know because if if there is some sort of like crazy catastrophe that wipes out most of civilization
somewhere oh yeah and if if you do have a secret space program that uses some types of conventional
some of those assets on the moon where you don't have to consistently overcome that as such an escape
velocity yeah so it makes perfect sense yeah and of course the rand system and other uh other uh ffrdc's
incorporations of interest we're doing studies of of maglev systems below the moon's surface which if
of ed the guy i told you about so that that's always one interesting that ko yum i don't know
up a independent review board appointed by the president confirmed by the senate of like civilian
this passed so and i think there was some involvement of mike turner uh former rep that that uh he's the
ohio guy right right patterson and then there's even some uh rumors of like the eminent domain