of — People | UAP Files

It's this special program where basically they recruit students who they believe could be useful to whatever they're planning on doing in certain categories of the Army, whether it be medical, so forth.

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And he was part of this program.

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Kissinger was part of this program.

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A bunch of other weird people.

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So he was part of that.

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Basically, it was like sort of a recruiting program.

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But he was part of it as well as like, again, a list of other people, like in all areas, right?

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Again, Kurt Vonnegut, the author, like all these people were a part of that.

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I came up with a theory of the nervous system that I called the Puharich theory.

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I visualized the nervous system as being embedded in the cell tissue of the body,

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just as the roots of a tree are embedded in the ground, which gives it nourishment.

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He's like, you know, the Puharich on steroids, sort of, back then at least.

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But he sort of took Puharich under his wing and, from what I understand, was the first person who introduced him to, you know, whatever weird science, if you want to call it that.

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Because he was one of these guys, McCullough, who would, you know, on his off time, do all these like, strange experiments with radio frequencies and that kind of stuff.

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Like, he was always getting sort of like, we have letters from like, CIA and stuff back then, who were kind of going to him with questions and so forth.

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It was part of the Puharich story.

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And somehow we found this like, big stash of archives of his that, again, were these letters from CIA and the Navy and everything, sort of, I guess, wanting to recruit him.

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And he sort of had this moment back then where he's like, I'm either going to choose the traditional academic path or I'm going to choose the, you know, path of ESP telepathy.

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He was impressed by my quest for the existence of telepathy and granted me a large sum of money.

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Additional benefactors emerged, including the heirs to two of the wealthiest families in the world, the Astors and the DuPonts.

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I was able to get a barn. I started working in the dead of winter in 48th and in Maine.

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It's on the coast of Maine, Rockland, Maine, it's called.

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I learned like he tells a different story of how the Roundtable started and how we got the money and everything to what we kind of figured out was really going on.

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But basically any of those places back then, I mean, we have letters of all of them.

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And you think their preliminary interest was mind control, telepathy, anything beyond the purview of kind of normal materialist reductionist physics that might be able to be weaponized or confer a tactical advantage to the United States?

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But I think obviously there was an interest in ESP and in what he was doing and in this idea of, okay, what if this is real?

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I mean, he speaks a lot and we, you know, we've uncovered like hundreds of tape recordings of his that no one's ever heard.

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Do you think Hal Puthoff was aware of Puharich's kind of foundation that he set with remote viewing?

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Because the story is that, you know, official American remote viewing kind of started with Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ and Stanford Research Institute.

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Because we have like all of the round table research, which is so much.

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But no, they were doing like what would exactly the definition of like remote viewing.

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So it's a combination of kind of, you know, these military factions and then these kind of blue blooded elites.

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Sort of.

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So who is he recruiting to do these experiments and what sort of experiments is he running at the Roundtable Foundation?

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I want to take a moment to thank one of today's sponsors, Z-Biotics.

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And when the opportunity came up to work with them, I jumped at it because it's one of the few things I actually drink before a night out with friends when it's time to celebrate a special event.

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It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for the rough days after drinking.

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Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, of course drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow.

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I have Z-Biotics before my first drink of the night, and I wake up feeling totally normal the next morning.

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As you'll know, if you're older than, say, the age of 28 or 29, it's not usual.

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So who is he recruiting to do these experiments, and what sort of experiments is he running at the Roundtable Foundation?

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So, again, it started with a lot of just basic ESP stuff.

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A lot of, yeah, like the card guessing.

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And then he obviously built a Faraday cage there, and I think, you know, was one of the first people, as far as I understand, doing ESP tests in a Faraday cage, where basically he would put people who claimed to be psychic in the cage.

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And it was his belief that that could sort of block out anything from the outside, and it would really help the psychic focus and be able to do what they could do.

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And obviously, Aldous Huxley is known probably best for a lot of his science fiction work, but also, you know, the Doors of Perception, where he talks about his experience with Mescaline.

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And then, you know, if you really get into the maybe deeper kind of architectures of his thinking, like in perennial philosophy, he's like clearly this kind of deep esotericist.

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The premise is basically, you know, and this was also the research he was doing at the Roundtable, was, you know, taking a certain type of mushroom.

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But on the cover of that book, you know, Aldous Huxley gives a blurb for Buharic and calls him, you know, the greatest mind in parapsychology.

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It's the kind of archetypal, you know, emoji on all of our, you know, cell phones or iPhones, at least.

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But it also, I believe, John Marco Allegro, who was, you know, a scholar of various, you know, ancient languages, he came to the very heretical conclusion that the Eucharist itself was an Amanita muscaria mushroom.

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And that maybe what Jesus underwent was some sort of kind of pagan mystery ritual that allowed him to sort of gain the magical powers that he achieved in the book of Acts.

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And that that whole thing had some kind of hermetic meaning that, you know, isn't just maybe a literal reincarnation or something.

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And so I assume that must have, because I think the name of his book is similar.

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You know, from what I understand, when Buharic's book came out, it was, you know, it's now sort of like a cult classic.

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And that, I think, kind of kick-started the, you know, way people looked at Buharic as being, you know, kind of like a kook.

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Clearly, but he was, he also was amongst, he was kind of a pioneer and had a few peers who were also at the forefront of their fields.

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People like Albert Hoffman, Karl Ruck, and Stanislav Grof, who thought of themselves as creating what they called the new Eleusis, based on kind of, you know, past mystery rituals, the Eleusinian mystery rituals.

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And they involved Urgot and psychedelic substances and, you know, these sort of, you know, Persephone's quest style.

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You know, you go down, you descend to the underworld and you come back up and you, you know, you gain knowledge of your primordial soul.

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He was, he was sort of on his, on his come up, which, you know, maybe isn't a coincidence.

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We are the positive principles of the cosmos.

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We're not personalities as you think of personalities.

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We're more like laws or principles of the universe.

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The part of Buharic's story where I think things sort of change in his life is when, you know, this instance happens when they first channel the nine, which was in 52.

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He came to the round table again through recommendation of somebody Buharic was working with.

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Someone grabs a tape recorder, which we have the tapes of.

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And just kind of on and on and on and on about a lot of philosophical new age sort of stuff, basically.

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I mean, there's thousands of pages, literally, of transcripts of what they recorded with him.

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But that's how the story goes of how the nine first appear as basically this guy, Vinod.

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So this was something I learned like way later into the process of the film.

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like lecturing about theosophy and spiritualism and all sorts of stuff like that.

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And again, with Buharic, like he never mentions any of that.

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His version of the story is this guy, they just randomly came in, fell into a trance, no context, you know, never mentions it.

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And he just sort of like never talks about it.

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No, I want to get into the psyop elements of it.

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And in fact, he has one of the only interviews, as far as I know, with Sidney Gottlieb.

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So that this was part of that research he was doing for a book.

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But Sidney Gottlieb was known as the kind of U.S. version of Joseph Mengele, a poisoner in chief, an architect of MK Ultra from the technical staff services.

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So, yeah, it's a lot of the sort of usual, I guess, channeling talk where there's this idea that there's been this surveillance of Earth.

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Like, uh, but it was basically a lot of, yeah, trying to help humanity.

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It was a lot of, like, you've probably heard a lot about how they, sometimes these channelers are, uh, you know, what is it called?

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There was a lot of, like, very complex equations that would come through.

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And a lot of, like, write this down because you'll understand later what it means sort of stuff.

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Well, we should see if any of it checks with actual science or math or.

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But if you want a clearer feed of a clearer transmission, you have to put the psychic in a Faraday cage.

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And on top of that, you should tweak the Faraday cage and build it this way and use this type of metal and use this.

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You know, because like, again, there's a lot of it that you could just say, oh, you know, this could have been made up or whatever.

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And that again, to me, I just thought that's, that's, that's interesting because it's not just sort of like, you know, spiritual mumbo jumbo.

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Just sort of more precise.

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Cause of what happens later on in his story.

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And so you would, you would need some sort of like bracelet or something that would kind of like constantly be touching your skin in order again, for like the, the transmission to be better.

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And what's crazy is, uh, one of the space kids that I met and that we interviewed for the film, she whipped out this, uh, this was, you know, only a couple of years ago.

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And that's the other thing to me, you know, being a little skeptical, I was like, well, someone of Puharic's, uh, you know, academic abilities, like clearly he, he, he wouldn't take the time.

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And Phyllis Schlamer, who later wrote the only planet of choice, which channels the nine.

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I think she talks about the nine with respect to messages around the earth being a bottleneck of consciousness.

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And like other planets being more ascended and these nine really trying to help raise consciousness on earth, which might sort of sound like a cliche, but.

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One thing that they were doing at the round table, uh, were, was that this psychic, uh, this one particular psychic would, would claim that at a certain time of night, uh, they would see an orb.

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And the only, you know, evidence I, I have is Buharic's own writing, cause we have all of his journals and he writes this in his journals where he literally says like this psychic would just blur it out.

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And I just thought that was interesting because of there's, there's so much talk of this orb stuff going on.

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Well, I don't know a whole lot about it, but I just, that kind of rang a bell where I'm like, oh yeah, he wrote about that.

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And he, he, he did many experiments where he allegedly took photos, which of course, you know, weren't in the big stash of photos we had from back then.

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These people who seem to attract, uh, these orbs and it would make sense because those people also seem to be sort of high psi or, you know, you know, have higher kind of mind matter capabilities or whatever.

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There's some, seems like there's some sort of correlation there. The connection Lavenda makes is that all these people conducting the seance, bringing in these nine, maybe extraterrestrial beings, maybe beings that go to the

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nine Egyptian, uh, gods or whatever. We don't exactly know what these nine beings are, but it's like a council. And, and later the nine praise plays prominently because this channel or Phyllis Schlamer, uh, like gets all these messages from the nine along with a lot of the kids and stuff.

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Yeah. But, but that, that all of the people in this original seance with these blue blooded elites are also entangled with the JFK assassination, which is so crazy.

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To make a long story short, there's a seance that's held in, uh, late 52, early 53. I think it was the New Year's Eve of 52 to 53. And there are nine people involved in the seance. Now, these are not just some casual nine people you pick up, like, you know, your neighbors or something, right? This was a DuPont and an Astor and a Forbes. I mean, everybody that represents the, the blue blooded Brahmins of American society, old money people, were at a seance, a free

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freaking seance, right? In the woods, in Maine on New Year's Eve with Andrea Paharic. And one of them, uh, is the guy who was the inventor of the bell helicopter. Right. So.

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Is that Arthur Young? Arthur Young. So Arthur Young is there with his wife. His wife is Ruth Forbes Payne Young. Right. She had a lot of names. She was excessively nomenclatured. And so you have, you know, Ruth Forbes Payne Young. She's a Forbes.

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So in that seance with the, you know, these kind of blue blooded elites that prove her itches convening,

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I think one of the people who's close with Mary Bancroft, who's Dulles' mistress,

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And so it's these weird entanglements where, and the nine believed themselves to be sort of agents,

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or sorry, the group in the seance believed themselves to be agents of these extraterrestrials,

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the assassination of JFK was good. He seemed like a great man who was resisting really dark forces.

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And it kind of worked.

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you know the absolute horror of losing people to the ether.

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But she started as sort of an intern at this company, Intellectron, which was basically a biomedical

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And she said the whole rest of the day Puharic was out of sorts.

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But he claims that we ran out of funding, the benefactors lost interest, and it shut down.

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I mean, there's records of that.

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But a lot of the early nine-related conspiracies start around that time, too, with this idea

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you know, certain groups of people to believe in something and to what extent?

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And a lot of people think that that was like the nine.

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They think any sort of like real channeling or anything is just, you know, is fake.

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And that it was all set up as this sort of psychological warfare experiment, which, you know, there's reasons to think that that could be true.

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But that's where a lot of that, you know, starts.

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And the idea that they were that sophisticated at the very start of MKUltra where they could convince these sort of elite members of society that they were in touch with these specific extraterrestrial beings.

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Like this elaborate sort of magic trick that seems a little beyond the pale to me.

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Like a lot of people I talk to who are interested in this stuff and know about the film and so forth.

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And a lot of the film for me was like, okay, what, what do we know?

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Speaking of what are the facts?

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Like, so yours is the implication of this story that this company had something to do with the assassination of JFK or like, were these men in tweed suits raiding the office, the CIA?

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A lot of people know this in relation to Puharich cause he lived there most of his life.

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It's, you know, an hour on the train North of the city, you know, mad men, of course, the show, like I didn't even realize all the characters, they all live in Ossining.

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And all of a sudden Puharich has what's considered like a mansion there, basically huge house.

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He tells his family that basically he just got this contract to study basically more of what was going on at the round table foundation.

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This one being the really the first, but it was sort of the roundtable to where like all of a sudden he just has this company and this and the and these employees and this fund, you know, all of a sudden it's just, you know, kind of expensive to have a big office in New York City.

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And all this stuff and all this state of the art at the time, electronic equipment.

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And it sounds like in classic intelligence world front sort of stuff.

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But that's when he first starts this whole, you know, radio frequency stuff, voices in the head kind of stuff, which again was under this, you know, we're researching on deaf people.

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And so that I think the connection, I mean, I don't want to just jump to conclusions, but I think what I've often thought with this JFK thing and why to Melanie his assistant seemed like such a big deal is that it may have had some tie in with a mind control, sort of like a Sirhan Sirhan situation with Lee Harvey Oz.

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This is, we're talking, and again, this is something I don't think a lot of people know.

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And I think people don't realize a lot of that MKUltra stuff happened much earlier, but they were doing this work in 62, 63 of like send, basically sending messages to, to people's heads, you know, and, and we have footage.

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The people from the Atomic Energy Commission write very clearly in letters we found, like we went, Annie Jacobson talks about it, I think in her book, like one of the guys is like, I don't believe you, you know, test me and just, and, and, and did the test on himself and it worked.

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And then it goes, it goes dark and Intellectron closes and all of a sudden it's onto the next sort of, you know, mysterious company.

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Is there any explicit connection between Lee Harvey Oswald and Intellectron or that sort of speculation on your part?

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I think Mary Bancroft like started to talk about it and he like, you know, he kind of acted like he didn't know what was going on when like, you know, he w he would have reacted earnestly if, if, if, if he hadn't, he clearly did know what was going on.

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And obviously Dulles was probably, you know, among a very short list of people.

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If you, you know, if you, the intersection of capabilities, motivation to, to take out JFK, Dulles has to be on anybody's short list.

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And then to further kind of steel man, there may be being a, a there, there, we know that Jack Ruby was an MK, ultra patient.

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I mean, like 95%, you know, like you have letters between Jolly West and Sydney Gottlieb, who's definitely the kind of archivist.

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architect of MK ultra, you know, and, and Jolly West was, you know, UCLA psychiatry, but clearly very involved in operation midnight climax and maybe brainwashed Charles Manson.

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And then Jack Ruby, you know, who was fully lucid, but just didn't remember having shot Lee Harvey Oswald talks about Jews dying outside of his cell and just like literally cracks.

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Delgado, an old friend of ours, brilliant researcher from Spain, implanted radio receivers in the heads of bulls.

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Delgado has remote control of the animal.

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Uh, he was involved with a lot of this sort of mind stuff in the sixties, late fifties sixties.

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But I think he's mostly known as somebody who, uh, did experiments with implanting, putting an implant in the head of a bull and basically being able to remote control a bull and basically say, go this stop, go left, go right.

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There's literally footage of, of the experiment happening.

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We found letters between the two of them, uh, during this time.

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I mean, there's some people I met during the process of this who were like, don't, don't even go there and don't talk about the connection you had with Delgado.

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And that clearly was the heir to MK ultra, which was mostly sodium pentothal LSD, that sort of thing is chemical based.

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It's like, of course, you know, we're going to be way more advanced on that stuff.

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It's one of those things you don't even want to think about it.

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So, yeah, if you think, okay, they're putting an implant in the head of a bull, like you say, basically remote controlling the thing.

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I mean, I, I'm, I'm sure of it because there's this way too many, there's way too many connections.

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I don't have a document that says here's the experiment we did, but, um, that whole decade of the sixties was such a, a, a, a odd decade for Buharachi was so like quiet.

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Like all there's all these records of the round table, you know, tapes, photos, everything.

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And all of a sudden you get to the sixties.

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It's like nothing, really, very little documentation, very little, you know, photographic evidence of what he was up to.

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And all of a sudden the seventies boom picks back up.

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And the other thing too, not to cut you off is I I've, with all this stuff in this film, I've gone to like the ends of the earth to try to track down.

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He was, uh, involved, uh, in NASA in the sixties, early seventies colleague of Buharach's, but he was like, I guess.

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It was again, it was just like records and sort of like, you know, financial records.

[0:55:30 - 0:55:36] ▶

Well, it's, I mean, now I feel like it's one of these things that's slowly shifting, you know, and I think more and more people are going to start to recognize the fact that MK ultra had a role, not only in the JFK assassination, but in the RFK assassination, you mentioned Sirhan Sirhan.

[0:55:46 - 0:56:02] ▶

He's like, you know, I must kill him, must kill, you know, sort of thing.

[0:56:17 - 0:56:20] ▶

Um, and you have RFK junior now is head of the FDA.

[0:56:20 - 0:56:23] ▶

William Jennings Bryan, um, was this kind of mysterious, deep statey figure who I believe was tight with Sirhan Sirhan.

[0:56:47 - 0:56:55] ▶

What, what's the, what's the thesis of this book?

[0:57:14 - 0:57:16] ▶

Uh, as you know, a lot of the guests I sit down with, whether they're physicists, intelligence officers, people who've worked inside black programs are operating at a really impressive level mentally.

[0:57:16 - 0:57:30] ▶

Often their work takes a toll and a lot of them track their health obsessively.

[0:57:34 - 0:57:39] ▶

So you're actually seeing progress instead of starting from zero every year.

[0:58:42 - 0:58:46] ▶

What's the thesis of this book?

[0:59:18 - 0:59:20] ▶

It's basically about this idea of the fabrication of alien abductions, right?

[0:59:20 - 0:59:27] ▶

That's at least a big part of it.

[0:59:27 - 0:59:28] ▶

Some of them being chip implantations done basically for MKUltra purposes.

[0:59:28 - 0:59:34] ▶

One of many of these very, to me, it became very obvious fronts.

[0:59:49 - 0:59:56] ▶

And they were doing all that type of experimentation.

[1:00:02 - 1:00:04] ▶

Again, there's footage of them doing an experiment on a woman.

[1:00:04 - 1:00:10] ▶

And, you know, it's kind of like a situation where if you're exposed to this frequency, it's at a certain wavelength that only you can hear and anyone else around you can't hear.

[1:00:29 - 1:00:43] ▶

And this kind of ties into what he was doing later in the seventies, but they're doing an experiment on a woman using this.

[1:00:43 - 1:00:49] ▶

One of the things he invented back then too, which again was Puharich says himself was classified.

[1:01:07 - 1:01:13] ▶

And you've probably heard of this as the tooth implant.

[1:01:13 - 1:01:17] ▶

A device could be inserted into one of your back molars that acted as a transducer that could send signals across the facial nerves into the hearing centers of the brain.

[1:01:17 - 1:01:31] ▶

It took about a month of daily therapy.

[1:01:31 - 1:01:34] ▶

It was extraordinary because it was a totally new way of understanding how we hear.

[1:01:38 - 1:01:45] ▶

It had a lot of potential.

[1:01:50 - 1:01:53] ▶

It was basically a radio receiver that would be, I guess at one point it was Puharich kind of says it as though you could slip on some sort of thing.

[1:02:12 - 1:02:23] ▶

Like anyone could just kind of like slip this thing on their tooth.

[1:02:23 - 1:02:26] ▶

It would pick it up here and it would send it through the nerves of the face that would basically connect to whatever area in your brain you register, you know, sounds.

[1:02:41 - 1:02:51] ▶

But so the first part of it was the tooth where you could send the message to the tooth implant, hear it in the head.

[1:03:18 - 1:03:24] ▶

And the second part was an offshoot of that where basically, from what I understand, you sort of just bypass the whole tooth thing.

[1:03:24 - 1:03:33] ▶

A lot of this I stumbled into.

[1:03:58 - 1:03:59] ▶

And so he would like de facto be able to hear his own playing without actually kind of, you know, hearing it through his ear canal.

[1:04:35 - 1:04:42] ▶

There's a story of, there's a kind of apocryphal, but I think substantiated story, um, around Lucille Ball who had just.

[1:04:45 - 1:04:51] ▶

So they, they bring him in, they get to know him and he says, okay, I work at this metal factory where I guess it basically is a grinding metal pieces and this kind of thing.

[1:05:25 - 1:05:34] ▶

That's pretty remarkable of Puharich to think that all through and to test it in the laboratory.

[1:06:16 - 1:06:23] ▶

And that kicked off like all of this research where it said, okay, well, if that's possible, like what else is possible with that basic idea that that's, you know, real.

[1:06:23 - 1:06:35] ▶

Yeah. Could you then use some sort of electromagnetic, you know, radio wave or some wave that connects directly to the brain and that kind of gets in a freaky territory because you end up in sort of psychic warfare, you know, that's ubiquitous or whatever in widespread.

[1:06:51 - 1:07:11] ▶

Like, it's kind of weird to think about, but I mean, if you're saying that was possible back then, it's just wild. And then you mentioned sign waves. I just interviewed a guy named Dan Sherman.

[1:07:11 - 1:07:22] ▶

Yeah. And you texted me when you saw the interview because you said it, you felt like it kind of comported with a lot of the stuff you had been studying around.

[1:07:22 - 1:07:30] ▶

Yeah. Puharich. If Puharich is doing this stuff in the sixties, then it kind of makes me believe the Sherman stuff a whole lot more, which was happening.

[1:07:30 - 1:07:40] ▶

In the early nineties around messages he's downloading, but it, maybe it does beget the question, you know, is the Sherman stuff genuinely, you know, extraterrestrial or were people beaming messages that were extraterrestrial to test the veracity of the messaging or whatever through him. And I don't know, you know, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't think he was lying. And I think the program is real.

[1:07:40 - 1:08:06] ▶

The Genesis of it was in 1947. We came in contact with an alien species and in 1960, they started a, a project. It was called project preserve destiny. And, um, it was designed to genetically manage fetuses, human fetuses, so that they would have the heightened ability to do this particular thing that I was going to school for.

[1:08:06 - 1:08:32] ▶

Yeah. Do you think that it was kind of a development from, um, you know, what you were looking into with Puhar?

[1:08:57 - 1:09:04] ▶

You said there are a lot of sine waves. He literally says I had to flatten a sine wave.

[1:09:08 - 1:09:12] ▶

That's why I, that's why I reached out because again, like for me, a lot of this was, okay, I have all this information. I'm not a, you know, I'm not a, a physicist. I'm not a, most of this stuff, but I'd have to imagine it's connected because it, um, Puharic, the way this machine worked as well, had something to do with specific sine waves. Very, very specific.

[1:09:20 - 1:09:43] ▶

You know, he was always talking about sine waves. And so I just, I can't imagine that that wasn't some sort of early interpretation of, of what, what he was talking about.

[1:09:43 - 1:09:55] ▶

really grapple with like that a lot because I knew what I was hearing and, and sort of not so much researching is a lot of stuff we got were like tapes of these experiments.

[1:10:13 - 1:10:25] ▶

You're right. I mean, I think like if that was happening in 60, 61, 62, I mean, I don't know. And this gets transitions into the Uri Geller stuff, which I believe is very much involved in that same sort of research.

[1:10:40 - 1:10:56] ▶

Well, I think, um, it's my belief that, uh, Geller was, was sort of like a, um, uh, mind control guinea pig in a way.

[1:11:00 - 1:11:11] ▶

Mm. Uh, there's a lot of context that would, that would prove that that was what his sort of role was in this whole.

[1:11:11 - 1:11:20] ▶

But it just goes like, again, he never talks about it. No, no one in his family. Oh yeah. I wonder whatever happened to that. Like you would think that with such an amazing discovery, like something would have come of it.

[1:11:50 - 1:12:01] ▶

Of course we learned he was using it with the space kids years later that nobody knew about that, but, um, so he's the, he's coming off the tail end of all the in Electron stuff. Right. Right. When he meets Geller, like literally it was 1970 is when he first hears about Geller goes to Israel.

[1:12:11 - 1:12:29] ▶

And Intellectron is still happening then. I mean, from what I understand, like it was still very much, you know, an operating company. So he's going to Israel to meet Uri Geller while he's still very much involved in the research of essentially sending messages to people.

[1:12:29 - 1:12:48] ▶

And he gets to Israel. He discovers Uri Geller. I mean, I think a lot of people know this story, but you know, Geller was, was allegedly this very, uh, amazing psychic guy who could bend, bend spoons with his mind and read people's minds and do all sorts of things like that. He could like, uh, hover his hand over a watch and the, and it would, uh, the hands would move and, and all these kinds of things. And so.

[1:12:48 - 1:13:14] ▶

But it was definitely kind of strange.

[1:13:42 - 1:13:44] ▶

And he did do it, but, um, he, so Buharic, you know, again, the story goes, Buharic was kind of smitten with, with Geller and oh my God, this guy's, you know, an amazing psychic.

[1:13:44 - 1:13:54] ▶

But what people don't really know, uh, unless they read Buharic's book on, on Uri Geller, which is kind of like a rare book to, to come across.

[1:14:00 - 1:14:08] ▶

And all of a sudden, after however many years, you know, 53 from when Dr. Vinod did it to, to 71.

[1:14:21 - 1:14:29] ▶

You know, there's all these tape recordings we have of, of this, uh, going down and that kind of kickstarts again.

[1:14:43 - 1:14:50] ▶

And all of a sudden they're like back, you know, and he's channeling them, channeling them and he's communicating with them.

[1:14:55 - 1:15:03] ▶

And it's also strange because I think a lot of people know, like Geller has claimed his involvement with Mossad and his Israeli intelligence and all these things.

[1:15:31 - 1:15:41] ▶

He says, it's a joke, but he kind of says in a jokey way.

[1:15:53 - 1:15:54] ▶

um well he so we did tons of like foia uh requests trying to trying to find stuff on him

[1:16:02 - 1:16:11] ▶

and like basically got nothing but the only thing we were able to get was this big chunk of fbi

[1:16:11 - 1:16:16] ▶

documents which was basically monitoring all of his movements in israel literally page after page

[1:16:16 - 1:16:22] ▶

mentions in a uh letter he was writing to uh there's a good friend of his this woman who

[1:16:54 - 1:17:02] ▶

kind of helped him with bookkeeping and stuff and she was like his closest confidant and he would

[1:17:02 - 1:17:08] ▶

her very differently than other people but he um basically admitted to being part of a israeli

[1:17:12 - 1:17:20] ▶

of it it's either true or for some reason he's making it up i don't know why it's fascinating so so

[1:17:39 - 1:17:45] ▶

he wrote that and then in this tape um he he kind of jokingly says oh i'm a i'm a i'm a double agent

[1:17:45 - 1:17:52] ▶

geller kind of parted ways he's always going there um on a lot of the channeling tapes that are happening

[1:18:06 - 1:18:13] ▶

yariv who was i think the head of army intelligence very you can look him up i mean he was constantly

[1:18:21 - 1:18:28] ▶

um high up there so a lot of red flags nothing again no concrete you know document or something

[1:18:35 - 1:18:45] ▶

think when when he goes to israel initially to see geller in 1971 and he geller's kind of channeling

[1:18:57 - 1:19:07] ▶

this idea of nine extraterrestrial beings or what do you think that is is he is he calling in something

[1:19:21 - 1:19:28] ▶

first of all just to quickly mention like this this idea that buharach is very um there's always two

[1:19:34 - 1:19:42] ▶

buharach when he he kind of tells the story to an audience you know and he says oh yeah they just you

[1:20:20 - 1:20:25] ▶

come through and i do think again like i mentioned earlier kind of having to accept some of these

[1:20:50 - 1:20:58] ▶

darker parts of the story like i do think uh to some extent like he was implanting this idea

[1:20:58 - 1:21:08] ▶

you can very much hear him saying you know is is it the not you know the type of like leading

[1:21:15 - 1:21:21] ▶

questions i think that a lot of people say oh you know you can't trust a hypnosis if they're doing

[1:21:21 - 1:21:27] ▶

and oh actually yeah you're right it is and that kind of thing but what's so confusing is there's

[1:21:32 - 1:21:38] ▶

there's a lot of other sessions he did where it was like not like that at all the complete opposite

[1:21:38 - 1:21:43] ▶

and that always goes back to the crux of who harich of like okay what what was he yes he believed in

[1:21:49 - 1:21:55] ▶

clearly he was manipulative somewhat yeah i usually get to the end of these questions thinking it's

[1:22:08 - 1:22:14] ▶

like a yes and like an improv or whatever it's it's usually not like one neat solution kind of explains

[1:22:14 - 1:22:20] ▶

think of the archimedes lever of reality itself and its mind control right like that would explain like

[1:22:25 - 1:22:31] ▶

origin point of the roundtable foundation like he was researching this stuff back then like this very

[1:23:18 - 1:23:25] ▶

specific extremely low frequency that can he figured out like penetrate the walls of a faraday cage that

[1:23:25 - 1:23:34] ▶

was happening which was you know yeah the same thing the russians had these sort of radio frequency weapons which which you know they did i mean that's all

[1:24:07 - 1:24:15] ▶

at intellectron they're doing a lot of that same stuff i do firmly believe that that geller was some sort of

[1:24:22 - 1:24:30] ▶

you know we need to experiment on a real you know human being with some of this stuff and again it goes

[1:24:46 - 1:24:54] ▶

with these kinds of experiments you need to you know do it on a real person or else you're never going to

[1:25:01 - 1:25:07] ▶

know how someone in you know the real world will react and i think geller you know was was part of

[1:25:07 - 1:25:13] ▶

something like this because there's a lot of experiments they did where um there's a story for

[1:25:13 - 1:25:19] ▶

1973 i think he claims he's walking down the street in new york city gets a weird feeling right all of a

[1:25:28 - 1:25:37] ▶

and and he crashes through the the screen porch there's footage super eight movie footage of of

[1:25:45 - 1:25:52] ▶

buhar filming the screen porch after this allegedly happened it's all smashed through right and geller of

[1:25:52 - 1:25:58] ▶

get a load of film you know put it in the put it in the camera film get the get the film transferred

[1:26:35 - 1:26:43] ▶

it's it's proof so you know he's he's doing that but i i that was just one instance of me thinking

[1:26:49 - 1:26:56] ▶

you get someone to believe and i just think it was all part of that type of experimentation and

[1:27:39 - 1:27:44] ▶

buharic himself way later in his life like i said when he starts to kind of reveal things he says

[1:27:44 - 1:27:50] ▶

manipulation so you know he he was doing it and i think a lot of the geller stuff was just like okay

[1:27:59 - 1:28:07] ▶

we need a guinea pig here to to see if some of these wild ideas work you know so wild i think there's a

[1:28:07 - 1:28:14] ▶

yet another person who was just kind of part of his you know rolodex but yeah i think geller said

[1:28:42 - 1:28:48] ▶

something to the effect of yeah he showed him um some photographs of um of yeah something from roswell

[1:28:48 - 1:28:55] ▶

the office he opens the safe i see a piece of metal i've never seen such a color pulls it out it's not

[1:29:06 - 1:29:12] ▶

not from here he says you're right this is a piece of a ufo that crashed on our planet uh it's over it's

[1:29:19 - 1:29:26] ▶

and this goes back to the the controllers um book a lot of the stories and again keep in mind this is

[1:29:35 - 1:29:43] ▶

all pre coming to the u.s going to sri everyone knows that stuff this is in in tel aviv before any of

[1:29:43 - 1:29:51] ▶

around in uh in a jeep and they're they see a a ufo and geller all of a sudden i mean puhart's book on

[1:30:00 - 1:30:11] ▶

geller is fun to read you know in and of itself is because it's like it's just like a cool crazy sci-fi

[1:30:11 - 1:30:17] ▶

oh he's in a trance before this happens you know apparently and then it's that same idea of like

[1:30:44 - 1:30:50] ▶

he believed it and puhart kind of substantiated oh yeah you know we saw it land and we saw you walk on

[1:30:50 - 1:30:57] ▶

wanted to experiment with can you get someone to believe in or just kind of framing it around this

[1:31:03 - 1:31:09] ▶

i'm just kind of putting the pieces together but it just seems to me that it's like let's take this ufo

[1:31:24 - 1:31:30] ▶

et framework and do these kind of mind manipulation experiments around that yeah and see you know

[1:31:30 - 1:31:40] ▶

it does again the mk ultra thing just explain everything which is like such a dark version of the

[1:31:46 - 1:31:52] ▶

ability to like manipulate human beings like i think of one of the most credible cases for me is a guy

[1:32:07 - 1:32:13] ▶

sort of like b2 bomber was like kind of winking at him in the distance he and his um uh you know um

[1:32:29 - 1:32:36] ▶

of a walmart is the the line he always says it's sort of this crazy iconic line you know and um and uh

[1:32:50 - 1:32:57] ▶

he gets sort of you know debriefed they check his teeth i think he said that like the guy checking

[1:33:24 - 1:33:31] ▶

him now said that there was some sort of ambient radiation in his mouth or something from that time

[1:33:31 - 1:33:36] ▶

it's really sort of crazy um yeah that is the tooth thing is really strange and there's a lot online

[1:33:36 - 1:33:45] ▶

kind of split up get geller wants to to move on and again way later in this 2019 interview he he kind

[1:34:02 - 1:34:09] ▶

of opens up and said yeah i was kind of like afraid you know and he he really opens up like i didn't know

[1:34:09 - 1:34:16] ▶

what was kind of going on and and i was suspicious and i just wanted to get away basically from this guy

[1:34:16 - 1:34:22] ▶

around because phyllis schlemer was sort of the next channel that he he discovers that that brings

[1:34:38 - 1:34:43] ▶

he was part of a um a psychic class that she she taught and again i've heard from a lot of people

[1:34:49 - 1:34:56] ▶

but there's this guy that she knew she introduces him to buharic uh they do a bunch of experiments yeah

[1:35:01 - 1:35:08] ▶

had like a mental breakdown there's a couple other people in the the sphere of this story that this

[1:36:21 - 1:36:26] ▶

the film does a good job of this or i hope it does is you know i don't believe or and especially don't

[1:37:02 - 1:37:10] ▶

want to believe that mk ultra is responsible for everything and all of this stuff because there's a

[1:37:10 - 1:37:16] ▶

couple stories in buharic's life that you know do seem like legitimate sort of extraordinary

[1:37:16 - 1:37:23] ▶

that a bunch of his family was visiting a bunch of his cousins and people who you know are very

[1:37:31 - 1:37:37] ▶

skeptical about all of this stuff skeptical of buharic's whole world but some psychic uh that that

[1:37:37 - 1:37:44] ▶

itself over the house and so we have the video buharic's son andy who's an awesome guy he he did this kind of

[1:37:52 - 1:38:00] ▶

like he gets emotional telling it and he's again a totally sane guy you know of course his dad was

[1:38:18 - 1:38:26] ▶

andre buharic but like he's he's very normal saying guy he said yeah of course you know the camera

[1:38:26 - 1:38:32] ▶

wasn't out because it was much later in the night and again pre-iphone of course you know you got to

[1:38:32 - 1:38:38] ▶

three of the cousins all saw this huge thing is silently hovered over so while and that and and

[1:38:45 - 1:38:51] ▶

or manipulate what people experience yeah but the idea that there's nothing outside of that perceptual

[1:39:55 - 1:40:01] ▶

are i think also involves some sort of hubris like you know you can you can have both but um it's

[1:40:07 - 1:40:13] ▶

yeah this is i mean this is one of the craziest interviews i've ever done man this is crazy i mean

[1:40:13 - 1:40:19] ▶

i'm i feel like shocked like listening to all of these facts and i'm just thinking as you're talking

[1:40:19 - 1:40:24] ▶

about puharj's son and this ufo showing up um what was night because i think of 1952 as the you know dc fly

[1:40:24 - 1:40:32] ▶

pretty amazing and he remembers it and stuff he's one of the probably last living witnesses wow um amazing

[1:40:50 - 1:40:55] ▶

yeah but do you think that had anything to do with the seance because i think of the seance with you

[1:40:55 - 1:41:00] ▶

know the original channeling of the nine it was 52. do you know what month uh it was it was um

[1:41:00 - 1:41:07] ▶

in any sort of you know selection bias here but july 1952 was when it was the thing showed up and so

[1:41:17 - 1:41:24] ▶

but a lot of that early channeling with the nod that was all you know 52 interesting yeah into 53 i mean

[1:41:24 - 1:41:32] ▶

it could have been and i told you like he he wrote in his journals about these orbs and the one of the

[1:41:32 - 1:41:37] ▶

that in fact a lot of the recordings we have not a lot but some of them came from from them they

[1:41:58 - 1:42:04] ▶

were really they were they had a bunch of stuff saved actually so there's a really amazing like

[1:42:04 - 1:42:09] ▶

kind of nuts and bolts ufo researcher who i think did some software stuff for spacex his name is richard

[1:42:09 - 1:42:15] ▶

geldreich and he uh has uncovered like a couple of ufo either crashes or appearances where the borderland

[1:42:15 - 1:42:22] ▶

were there and you know maybe there's some occult stuff going on there yeah with the knights of malta

[1:42:45 - 1:42:50] ▶

these you know what he would call kind of dark occult groups and and societies and people trying to like

[1:43:05 - 1:43:13] ▶

get him to join and he he didn't want anything to do with it and that kind of thing well werner von

[1:43:13 - 1:43:19] ▶

of the german space program he was also close with walt disney and i think they're they made a little

[1:43:25 - 1:43:31] ▶

life that he sort of created and then uh my buddy danny jones just did an interview with one of the

[1:43:35 - 1:43:42] ▶

and it's weird you know and it's like you have you know a picture of jolly west on the set of 2001

[1:43:54 - 1:44:01] ▶

after he comes back from the moon and so you have to wonder if there's some sort of like weird

[1:44:24 - 1:44:29] ▶

my you know and if i didn't know puharj and you weren't of on braun you have one of the mk ultra

[1:44:30 - 1:44:36] ▶

architects yeah in touch with the head of the american space bar it's weird well the other

[1:44:36 - 1:44:41] ▶

thing too with the the nasa connection with puharj is again in the 60s um he was doing like a ton of

[1:44:41 - 1:44:48] ▶

like contract work for all sorts of um different agencies but so this is actually in newspaper

[1:44:48 - 1:44:55] ▶

the moon right they didn't know the surface of the moon what it would would be like really so they

[1:45:08 - 1:45:14] ▶

of like what it would be like uh so they would feel comfortable with like sending whatever you

[1:45:30 - 1:45:36] ▶

archives i'm sure there's the tapes we did where we recorded this psychic kind of remote viewing the

[1:45:44 - 1:45:49] ▶

moon and and he and he had the contracts of nasa like we don't we have one that doesn't say that but

[1:45:49 - 1:45:56] ▶

he clearly you know worked with them we have we have documentation of that didn't nasa also have

[1:45:56 - 1:46:02] ▶

talk about oh dude gordon cooper was very involved with buharic so yeah so this is one of the this is

[1:46:26 - 1:46:33] ▶

talking about that stuff we had some some kind of craft flying overhead had pretty good altitude

[1:47:11 - 1:47:19] ▶

flying the same kind of formation we fly in our fighters were they planes i mean what well it turns

[1:47:20 - 1:47:26] ▶

there i mean the whole gene roddenberry thing is crazy yeah so the creator of star trek yeah so so

[1:47:46 - 1:47:52] ▶

sure enough is the tape that no one's ever heard of this session that is kind of like crazy to to to be in

[1:47:58 - 1:48:06] ▶

possession of but basically they would do these kind of round table-esque uh channelings where like

[1:48:06 - 1:48:15] ▶

this wasn't the first time he was a part of like a channeling session with them but yeah we have the

[1:48:34 - 1:48:40] ▶

channeling the nine and roddenberry is there and it's like an hour or two hours of him asking questions

[1:48:54 - 1:49:00] ▶

about and that becomes everything the plot of star trek or well i wouldn't say the plot as star trek

[1:49:00 - 1:49:06] ▶

had started i think it would i think people think of deep space nine uh-huh which that came out post

[1:49:06 - 1:49:13] ▶

these sessions and um that you know of course nine and then there's a character in deep space nine who's

[1:49:13 - 1:49:21] ▶

and they actually wrote uh i have it and um i don't know what will ever come of it it's a it's a long

[1:49:28 - 1:49:35] ▶

and locations and the whole premise is his experience of working with puharic and phyllis channeling the

[1:49:42 - 1:49:49] ▶

nine and we have an original copy of it and it's like amazing and from what we understand like

[1:49:49 - 1:49:56] ▶

that's mentioned in a couple of real world contexts too one of which being um you have high meshed who

[1:50:41 - 1:50:49] ▶

the uh founder of their space program and their their equivalent of space force and was i think head

[1:50:55 - 1:51:01] ▶

of it for decades yeah and he just writes this autobiography where he talks about uh the galactic

[1:51:01 - 1:51:07] ▶

that like the heads of various nation-state space programs are aware of here uh perhaps yeah does he

[1:51:14 - 1:51:22] ▶

of like the israeli puhart he he kind of looks like him and you know they have the same vibe going on but

[1:51:43 - 1:51:49] ▶

they were they were good friends uh i don't know the specifics of how they met apparently uh bentoff was

[1:51:49 - 1:51:58] ▶

um well they definitely knew each other because there's photographs of geller puhart and bentoff

[1:52:04 - 1:52:10] ▶

later so you know there's a lot of clues like that that goes back to that israeli connection and and

[1:52:44 - 1:52:51] ▶

bentoff was one of a number of um scientists who were being tracked at you know puhart's house burned

[1:52:51 - 1:53:03] ▶

being monitored and there's this big like this circle of kind of his friends and colleagues were

[1:53:21 - 1:53:25] ▶

mean and bentoff died in a plane crash yeah that's right yeah sort of super mysteriously he was uh

[1:53:47 - 1:53:53] ▶

friends with a lot of the stanford research institute and early psychic you know research pioneers yeah

[1:53:53 - 1:53:59] ▶

and claimed to have this kind of theory of everything he writes a book called stalking the wild pendulum

[1:53:59 - 1:54:05] ▶

where individual consciousness is kind of a pinched node of some larger fabric of consciousness or something

[1:54:05 - 1:54:12] ▶

and uh fascinating guy yeah they were close like i said there's a couple tapes of them just like

[1:54:13 - 1:54:18] ▶

literally talking and they would just record it and they would talk about all sorts of things mostly

[1:54:18 - 1:54:24] ▶

and going to kind of pick off information or hey we're we're buddies we're into the same stuff we should

[1:54:35 - 1:54:42] ▶

is that stuff exists and you can put it together how how you want but you know i've told a lot of people

[1:54:48 - 1:54:56] ▶

and again it's not because i sort of fear for you know anything but we we really done maybe it's

[1:54:56 - 1:55:03] ▶

deliberate maybe we're not supposed to have found anything but we don't have any sort of like legitimate

[1:55:03 - 1:55:10] ▶

because we don't have the definitive answer of what's going on we just have all this

[1:55:21 - 1:55:26] ▶

you know pieces of media or journalism beget more questions often than answers especially if you're

[1:55:34 - 1:55:40] ▶

cutting to you know the deeper architectures of reality yeah and uh i often think you should be

[1:55:40 - 1:55:46] ▶

kind of skeptical or distrust you know people who are like they're so sure it's just x or it's just y

[1:55:46 - 1:55:52] ▶

you know and in this case it's clearly this kind of murky subject but that i mean that makes it that

[1:55:52 - 1:55:58] ▶

sign too of the whole geller thing being like i mentioned earlier like him being involved maybe

[1:56:04 - 1:56:11] ▶

willingly in these kinds of experiments you know but he he um yeah he really opened up i mean anyone can hear

[1:56:11 - 1:56:19] ▶

parapsychology lab and whenever i try to throw the kitchen sink of skepticism around like he's just a

[1:57:59 - 1:58:05] ▶

sort of subject but no i i actually firmly believe that he was one of probably you know a lot of people

[1:58:29 - 1:58:35] ▶

know but i would assume like you can't do it a hundred percent of the time maybe you can do it

[1:58:47 - 1:58:52] ▶

sixty percent of the time yeah but i think that about him because i've heard enough stories

[1:58:52 - 1:58:56] ▶

i think he liked the idea of the showmanship and but yeah he definitely had something going on

[1:59:02 - 1:59:08] ▶

speaking of people with gifted you know psychic abilities uh who are the space kids the space kids

[1:59:08 - 1:59:16] ▶

are uh well there's a lot of them and we only were able to track down and interview um one two three

[1:59:16 - 1:59:25] ▶

five of them but basically when geller was kind of blowing up this was like mid 70s early mid 70s

[1:59:26 - 1:59:36] ▶

and the uk and in and in china which are just the the stories that we were able to kind of look into

[1:59:45 - 1:59:52] ▶

but these kids would see um geller on tv and all of a sudden like that would uh cause them to just

[1:59:52 - 2:00:01] ▶

and there's a ton of newspaper articles at this time which again like okay it could have all been a hoax

[2:00:14 - 2:00:22] ▶

you know touched the the the refrigerator and it short-circuited you know all sorts of stuff

[2:00:35 - 2:00:40] ▶

their psychic abilities just kind of like came out in that moment it's like a contagion of yeah the

[2:00:48 - 2:00:53] ▶

psychic yeah powers yeah so that's apparently what was happening and so pooharach of course you know

[2:00:53 - 2:01:00] ▶

learns this and he's very intrigued so he starts to you know visit some of these cases of kids who

[2:01:00 - 2:01:09] ▶

and that these kids actually have this sort of like sudden emergence of ability that he um brings them

[2:01:19 - 2:01:26] ▶

well again a lot of people have this idea there's a lot online about how he like collected all these

[2:01:26 - 2:01:32] ▶

kids almost like an x-men kind of thing which is partially true but mostly like he would lecture and

[2:01:32 - 2:01:38] ▶

who knows about this and and i need your help basically like they would kind of go to him

[2:02:13 - 2:02:18] ▶

so at that point he thought okay there's enough there's enough stories and enough of these kids

[2:02:19 - 2:02:24] ▶

coming to me that like i should start a research program and so that's when he sort of collects

[2:02:24 - 2:02:30] ▶

like a large group uh of of kids i think it was like again online there's all sorts of stories but

[2:02:31 - 2:02:37] ▶

it was really only like maybe like a dozen kids i think give or take but he he kind of invites them

[2:02:37 - 2:02:44] ▶

to to awsening where he's you know living and and starts this sort of camp where basically they are just doing

[2:02:44 - 2:02:54] ▶

vanod roundtable stuff like a lot of conspiracy stuff pops up at this moment too because of the general

[2:03:03 - 2:03:11] ▶

nature of kids showing up at the house of a you know known intelligence uh connected scientists etc and

[2:03:11 - 2:03:21] ▶

of went through the different abilities tested them and and that all led to getting back to the nine

[2:03:29 - 2:03:37] ▶

because a lot of these kids claimed they had some sort of encounter or or you know ufo experience

[2:03:37 - 2:03:45] ▶

and so buhar said okay kind of like grouped them okay all the all the kids who've had an experience here

[2:03:45 - 2:03:50] ▶

come through even through these kids who most of which never knew about about the nine and and most of which were

[2:03:56 - 2:04:05] ▶

ufos represent something real that's sort of you know non-human or extraterrestrial coming through

[2:04:38 - 2:04:46] ▶

these people or do you think that these were sort of synthetically implanted or kind of manipulated by

[2:04:46 - 2:04:53] ▶

well quite frankly he was quite closed off when it came to the the subject of all this puharic

[2:05:43 - 2:05:49] ▶

he sort of alludes to that but he does say yeah we went up to his house there's footage of him and

[2:06:01 - 2:06:05] ▶

and it's out there but i think that there was this sort of and and we know for a fact that puharic was

[2:06:13 - 2:06:19] ▶

part of the sri program a lot of people put off himself say no he wasn't he just simply brought

[2:06:19 - 2:06:26] ▶

just had these sort of like front companies which i just think it's obvious you know so at this time

[2:07:09 - 2:07:15] ▶

a lot of the tapes are remote viewing there's no other way to look at it it's okay what's going on in this location

[2:07:27 - 2:07:35] ▶

it was actually speaking of adam curry i think it was actually adam who brought up this idea that

[2:07:44 - 2:07:50] ▶

you know a lot of people who go into a trance or hypnosis you know there's there's a protocol right

[2:07:50 - 2:07:59] ▶

the if that makes sense for some of these kids to to sort of want to participate because again

[2:08:18 - 2:08:25] ▶

whatever star wars this and that and you say hey you know do you want to be a part of an experiment

[2:08:51 - 2:08:57] ▶

you want to come be a part of a uh a covert you know mind control experience you're not going to

[2:09:15 - 2:09:20] ▶

approach it that way so that's my theory is that that was sort of his way and one of the space kids

[2:09:20 - 2:09:27] ▶

the effect a long time ago of like the nine was basically just like this sandbox for us to

[2:09:33 - 2:09:38] ▶

it was like one of those many phone calls we had and i always stuck with me so i think that at that

[2:09:49 - 2:09:54] ▶

connection to sri via some sort of pay stub going directly to lab nine and you've got all these young

[2:10:01 - 2:10:07] ▶

do you think that this council of nine were real you know extraterrestrial or non-human beings

[2:10:30 - 2:10:38] ▶

their ability to sort of manipulate thoughts and that was through the nine or whatever and they had some

[2:10:46 - 2:10:52] ▶

would go back it's very deflating i'm sure for a lot of the ufo well it is and again like i don't want

[2:11:06 - 2:11:12] ▶

trying to be serious and piece together the life of this guy that spans decades like and and that's what

[2:11:19 - 2:11:25] ▶

of the protocol to get people into this state involves uh saying hey you're you're contacting

[2:11:33 - 2:11:39] ▶

seem super open-ended and they just seem to connect with the nine how do you sort of make sense of that

[2:11:44 - 2:11:49] ▶

well i don't know and that goes back to the kind of you know i think uh jeffrey mishlove brings this

[2:11:49 - 2:11:58] ▶

up of this sort of uh trickster element the kind of paranormal phenomena where like sometimes they're

[2:11:58 - 2:12:06] ▶

buhar it's like again it's always that question of like where did he stand with like is this real

[2:12:11 - 2:12:19] ▶

research that he passionately believes in and he's trying to come to some sort of you know reality of

[2:12:19 - 2:12:27] ▶

of the et phenomena or was it just all mk ultra you know and again i don't think it was all mk ultra

[2:12:27 - 2:12:35] ▶

again in some of these um sessions and and this is strange is is that on some of the sessions you

[2:12:41 - 2:12:50] ▶

so we can get into that you know so yeah so i think it's there was a way of like okay i need to kind

[2:13:17 - 2:13:25] ▶

of you know give an example to to maybe other people around to say hey look this is what we're doing

[2:13:25 - 2:13:33] ▶

around it kind of gets to the the serious stuff is again what it this is what i'm you're hearing what

[2:13:39 - 2:13:47] ▶

just like oh okay this is what i'm hearing yeah i think anyone would kind of conclude that yeah but

[2:13:54 - 2:13:59] ▶

again i think buharic like and and this is a big part of the film and a big part of my philosophy

[2:13:59 - 2:14:07] ▶

about him and his story is like i think he believed i know he believed in in a lot of paranormal stuff

[2:14:07 - 2:14:16] ▶

but i think he got sort of under the thumb of the uh you know intelligence world early on and i just don't

[2:14:16 - 2:14:26] ▶

think that he could kind of get away from that and i think you know you often hear it's like the mafia

[2:14:26 - 2:14:33] ▶

i'm i'm i'm good you know and i so i think that there was a lot of pressure on him to do some of this

[2:14:40 - 2:14:48] ▶

negative stuff that he may have otherwise not wanted to do and i think that's like a big part of the film

[2:14:48 - 2:14:54] ▶

and what i wanted to kind of get across with it is there's so much negative conspiracy stuff about

[2:14:54 - 2:15:01] ▶

him out there i mean there's tons of it have you read the stargate chron conspiracy the book it's

[2:15:01 - 2:15:07] ▶

like this this book had the story that i told you about of the guy in florida who woke up with the

[2:15:14 - 2:15:19] ▶

like a big part of that that research i don't think he wanted to do i think he he in a way was forced to

[2:15:38 - 2:15:46] ▶

do it you know yeah and whatever this kind of amorphous blob that is the ufo legacy program that

[2:15:46 - 2:15:53] ▶

is always proverbially discussed but you know usually in a very kind of high level fuzzy ways

[2:15:53 - 2:15:58] ▶

i think that's probably the case with a lot of these people is that they were kind of sucked up into

[2:15:59 - 2:16:03] ▶

u.s you know uh during kind of cold war secrecy era already knew and uh and and they would recruit

[2:16:17 - 2:16:24] ▶

with them yeah and and they were great when i showed them the sort of final product which really

[2:16:49 - 2:16:55] ▶

heard before yeah so that just goes to show his own family was in the dark about a lot of it but you

[2:17:12 - 2:17:19] ▶

that in and of itself seems a little messed up as does yeah you know slipping somebody mushrooms or

[2:17:46 - 2:17:52] ▶

aren't cool you know uh no and again like i think if you watch if anyone watches footage of buharach electric

[2:18:02 - 2:18:09] ▶

want to do any and not to ruin the end of the film but he basically like admits that that he basically

[2:18:30 - 2:18:35] ▶

of the cia at the time i'm sure you could get coerced into doing all sorts of things and does that fully

[2:19:02 - 2:19:08] ▶

walked into a position like that and there's just no question the level of um you know how how deeply

[2:19:22 - 2:19:30] ▶

connected he was to intelligence i mean there's there's a paper trail of it so there's just there's

[2:19:30 - 2:19:34] ▶

no way to kind of beat around that bush i think again i've just i've read so much online and there's a

[2:19:34 - 2:19:39] ▶

lot of speculation but at the end of the day like those people don't haven't seen the materials

[2:19:39 - 2:19:46] ▶

channeling they were using these sort of faraday chambers they had this machine that produced tones

[2:19:52 - 2:19:58] ▶

interesting is that um and you see in the film like getting back to this idea of the nine being this

[2:20:04 - 2:20:11] ▶

kind of end point just to like get things get things done uh in the 70s we're talking 74 through 76

[2:20:11 - 2:20:21] ▶

that period in fact one of the guys working with buharic at that time john whitmore he was a british guy

[2:21:23 - 2:21:29] ▶

nine said you have to go here you have to go there and so he kind of hints at like well what was that

[2:21:43 - 2:21:50] ▶

and um and so a lot of people speculate you know i've heard stories of you know christian missionaries

[2:22:38 - 2:22:45] ▶

like the more you listen to those tapes at that time and the more you just kind of put things together

[2:22:58 - 2:23:05] ▶

doing whatever he needs to do there yeah it's using the stigma of the science kind of in your favor as

[2:23:18 - 2:23:25] ▶

these tapes gives this goes back to like the remote viewing stuff of like some of the questions that

[2:23:31 - 2:23:38] ▶

so then that begs the question why would an alien why would an alien be like asking those types of

[2:23:52 - 2:23:59] ▶

the great pyramid in the in the same time and do like all sorts of experiments there really and he

[2:24:14 - 2:24:22] ▶

gods so that was something he was like obsessive about he would he we have tape recordings of him

[2:24:32 - 2:24:37] ▶

meditating in the king's chamber what in 76 and he did experiments with um uh one of the space kids

[2:24:37 - 2:24:46] ▶

go in the pyramid and and do do some cool stuff i'm interested in that's just kind of what it seems because

[2:25:06 - 2:25:12] ▶

intelligence agencies and going to do these things but kind of using that time to do other things he wanted and maybe that was he

[2:25:41 - 2:25:49] ▶

he shouldn't have done that and you know you think they took him out as a result maybe of that

[2:25:49 - 2:25:54] ▶

yeah i think a part of it is that he he because again he's going to egypt

[2:25:54 - 2:25:58] ▶

maybe on on a mission and hey you know don't screw around kind of thing i think there was a lot of

[2:26:15 - 2:26:20] ▶

bottom of the stairs we don't really know um what killed him

[2:26:33 - 2:26:41] ▶

well so there's a couple of things he he was sick at the time um but not i believe not enough that

[2:26:44 - 2:26:52] ▶

his life like he was doing these sort of lecture tours at sort of parapsychology conferences and

[2:27:02 - 2:27:07] ▶

stuff and he was being very open about his past and and it was one of these lectures at that time

[2:27:07 - 2:27:15] ▶

where he said you know look i'll admit it um i worked for this part of the cia my boss was the guy

[2:27:15 - 2:27:21] ▶

i was a consultant at the time and so he opens up about a lot of that stuff he he literally says uh

[2:27:48 - 2:27:55] ▶

i can produce in your mind the image of of um an alien experience um his assistant what at the time

[2:27:56 - 2:28:07] ▶

mm-hmm when puhart was in the hospital there's a part of the tape where dick russell goes outside i

[2:28:13 - 2:28:19] ▶

think they're having a smoke or something and he's and he's just kind of like hey look you know give

[2:28:19 - 2:28:24] ▶

using flashing lights using all tone all of that stuff was able to create the the the ufo experience

[2:28:37 - 2:28:46] ▶

is what we were talking about with this this controllers um idea is that yeah like kind of i guess more

[2:29:01 - 2:29:08] ▶

like he was involved basically making the point he was involved in that kind of stuff that kind of

[2:29:15 - 2:29:21] ▶

less than a year before he died but um he he was found uh at the bottom of the stairs he fell

[2:29:38 - 2:29:45] ▶

like what did he really believe he was still living with this group of like women who were like psychics

[2:29:55 - 2:30:01] ▶

basically harm him and take him out he claimed again this is either like the work of someone

[2:30:43 - 2:30:49] ▶

people would kind of like show up even to this day and be like hey you know you should study me

[2:31:01 - 2:31:06] ▶

and this kind of thing so he and he was a nice guy again so he would want he would let people in and

[2:31:06 - 2:31:11] ▶

every day well he also developed a lot of these techniques right yeah they're using yeah what he developed

[2:31:43 - 2:31:49] ▶

what he says in this but he basically is this legal pad and he really it's all these events kind of

[2:31:56 - 2:32:02] ▶

know weapons and so forth again a lot of that was going on in the late 70s

[2:32:42 - 2:32:46] ▶

and he he said no and apparently some argument ensued and he said you know get out of here and and

[2:32:46 - 2:32:53] ▶

because they came to his house he's kind of recounting this in his notes and um the guy that he said came

[2:32:53 - 2:33:00] ▶

on behalf of the cia to talk to him as a guy we know was involved in cia who's that this guy named bob

[2:33:01 - 2:33:06] ▶

of things i think he he wasn't necessarily wanting to to do but um so that happened where he refused

[2:33:15 - 2:33:21] ▶

that and said you know no you know get the hell out of here etc so all of that stuff was leading up to

[2:33:21 - 2:33:29] ▶

a lot of this psychic stuff was real and to this day they don't know what happened to him

[2:34:06 - 2:34:11] ▶

and of course a lot of people say oh you know he he got sort of kidnapped by whatever government

[2:34:58 - 2:35:04] ▶

is a i was skeptical of that but i i was like years later i remember reading that and i and i spent

[2:35:24 - 2:35:30] ▶

hours and days trying to find this mess but i could not find it for the life of me i tried everything i

[2:35:31 - 2:35:37] ▶

got erased or something i get and but that was the that's like the real theory of grinberg like again

[2:35:43 - 2:35:48] ▶

sort of taken by by the government so that's what your friend who made the movie thinks

[2:35:57 - 2:36:02] ▶

that he was actually taken and well that's one of the theories that basically everyone involved in

[2:36:02 - 2:36:08] ▶

it was all bunk um so and keep in mind buharach at that time was lecturing about all of that and being

[2:36:30 - 2:36:40] ▶

them seeing him as a liability late in life you know maybe he feels remorse about some of the things

[2:37:04 - 2:37:09] ▶

the research in the in the black um what are some of the wilder testimonies of the space kids that you

[2:37:14 - 2:37:21] ▶

film took so long which you know to give myself credit for because a lot of people are like i can't

[2:37:27 - 2:37:33] ▶

believe it took you so long and this and that but a lot of it was like just getting people to talk

[2:37:33 - 2:37:38] ▶

for me to basically earn the trust of these space kids who i now consider like good good friends

[2:37:56 - 2:38:03] ▶

people and we got we got five of them but again there was like a lot more a few of them were like

[2:38:18 - 2:38:23] ▶

fact in one of his journals he like wrote all the names of the kids at the time so it's pretty easy

[2:38:46 - 2:38:51] ▶

to like google people but um yeah a lot of the the ones we got were were again after kind of talking to

[2:38:51 - 2:39:00] ▶

them and saying hey i'm i'm you know trying to do like a level-headed you know portrayal of buharic

[2:39:00 - 2:39:06] ▶

kind of cultish i mean if you want to look at it that way in the sense that like

[2:39:24 - 2:39:28] ▶

other than the space because there's just all sorts of sarfati jack sarfati being one of them

[2:39:28 - 2:39:34] ▶

like him and his kind of group of physicists people would go up there it was just kind of really yeah

[2:39:34 - 2:39:40] ▶

like a hub of just any all these people interested in this stuff would just go there and like hang out

[2:39:40 - 2:39:44] ▶

model of time travel and warp drive physics yeah and he he lives in the bay area and he's very

[2:40:00 - 2:40:06] ▶

well you know it's a crazy connection i just thought of um in that story the so the sarfati story

[2:41:17 - 2:41:24] ▶

uh quickly is yeah he he got this call from this metallic voice which is what some of the um get what

[2:41:24 - 2:41:33] ▶

some sort of you know alien intelligence but um i don't know if you remember his part of the story

[2:41:39 - 2:41:44] ▶

intelligence and one of the people that he knew through a family member that was connected was this

[2:41:50 - 2:41:57] ▶

you did you ever ask him point blank hey jack like was any of your stuff do you think it was seeded by

[2:42:13 - 2:42:20] ▶

these sort of you know it could have been control people or i mean i think like he's open about that

[2:42:20 - 2:42:28] ▶

puharic's journals like he has one where he's kind of listing all these people that's when i first told

[2:42:33 - 2:42:38] ▶

everybody about this well in one of his journals it was just uh him recounting like he would often go to

[2:42:43 - 2:42:49] ▶

it's part of the page that's like so worn you can't really like read what it says but it's it's kind

[2:43:36 - 2:43:41] ▶

of a you know a brief uh mention that he he met with with brown and spent the afternoon he says

[2:43:41 - 2:43:48] ▶

so yeah that's how i found it and it brings up all these questions of like were people like warner

[2:44:14 - 2:44:21] ▶

in his in his teenage years um or was like you know if you think about like what would be one of

[2:44:41 - 2:44:46] ▶

the main use cases of mk ultra it would be like keeping secret science sort of on lock maybe creating

[2:44:46 - 2:44:52] ▶

some sort of cult dynamics around it wiping people's memories when they work on really sensitive

[2:44:52 - 2:44:57] ▶

of american kind of you know in the black dark science like whole tech trees that come from

[2:45:08 - 2:45:14] ▶

anti-gravity or extended electrodynamics or fifth dimensional physics i think kind of arrives from

[2:45:14 - 2:45:19] ▶

claude shannon who invented information theory was at princeton information theory is the basis of all

[2:45:33 - 2:45:39] ▶

between the types of people who'd be engaging in like bizarre seances esp paranormal stuff that wasn't

[2:46:09 - 2:46:16] ▶

so brown was there for whatever reason well brown was probably deep intelligence i mean there's a story of

[2:46:36 - 2:46:43] ▶

blue book and robert friend and jay allen hynek have possession of this you know material and townsend

[2:47:06 - 2:47:14] ▶

and military elite um so it makes sense if puha rich was as well on the kind of the psychic

[2:48:37 - 2:48:43] ▶

you know you know vector and maybe if all of this stuff is being coordinated at a higher level than we

[2:48:44 - 2:48:49] ▶

you know nuts and bull like they all kind of materials they all kind of connect at the at the top

[2:48:55 - 2:49:00] ▶

those two guys seem like very central nodes yeah and i think there's a lot of similarities with what

[2:49:00 - 2:49:06] ▶

you said uh you know this idea of like flashing credentials and walking in play i mean there's again

[2:49:06 - 2:49:12] ▶

i could give you 50 examples of puharic doing that kind of thing that i've heard and so that yeah and i

[2:49:12 - 2:49:20] ▶

think like the journals that mentioned brown and these others like i don't think these were sort of

[2:49:20 - 2:49:26] ▶

see like his his his assistant at one point kind of mentions this idea that like not not um not long

[2:49:32 - 2:49:41] ▶

stuff that was not supposed to be um read you know or seen it's amazing there's a lot of other names i

[2:49:51 - 2:49:59] ▶

something serious yeah doing that you're meeting with the third director of the cia who yeah it's

[2:50:17 - 2:50:24] ▶

a while i mean if yeah if anybody was kind of running the government behind the government it was dulles so

[2:50:24 - 2:50:28] ▶

yeah d um yeah some of the wilder testimony yeah the space space kids yeah so yeah they so they just

[2:50:28 - 2:50:36] ▶

basically recounted a lot of like um what they experienced a lot of the channeling sessions so

[2:50:36 - 2:50:43] ▶

a wilder story is um uh this one of the space kids his name is jaime he's um from mexico city

[2:50:43 - 2:50:51] ▶

she was like this big uh blue ball i guess this like ball of energy as he describes it appeared

[2:51:57 - 2:52:06] ▶

touched his forehead some sort of burst of blue light she flew across the room and he told me that and

[2:52:19 - 2:52:31] ▶

very bizarre because this was another thing that buharic didn't kind of open up uh about until way

[2:52:58 - 2:53:05] ▶

you would fall into the thing he says that one of the one of the kids says yeah i i remember that

[2:53:38 - 2:53:46] ▶

know but that's one of his stories that was really bizarre any ufo related stories um yeah there was a lot

[2:53:52 - 2:54:01] ▶

of um there were a couple like the classic you know right now there's a ufo that's sort of hovering over

[2:54:01 - 2:54:12] ▶

but um then there was a lot of um but like if we're to get super concrete about this like is that

[2:54:33 - 2:54:39] ▶

a lot of these sessions are very long like some of them are literally like two hours long you know and

[2:55:03 - 2:55:10] ▶

it's it's just i i hate to say like it's kind of like you just need to hear it to kind of like yeah to

[2:55:12 - 2:55:18] ▶

of the nine at face value how would you characterize these nine beings in what they want for humanity

[2:55:39 - 2:55:46] ▶

well it's like i said before um they they speak a lot about this idea that we have the ability of

[2:55:46 - 2:56:00] ▶

and they talk a lot about nuclear bases and this kind of thing that you know we hear a lot about now

[2:56:08 - 2:56:14] ▶

uh they kind of say like we're kind of behind a lot of the sightings that that are occurring on

[2:56:14 - 2:56:21] ▶

hastings great work in his book it's really good and i made kind of a you know another little thing

[2:56:38 - 2:56:43] ▶

the air force archives uh lincoln la paz this meteorite expert uh at university of new mexico is

[2:56:54 - 2:57:01] ▶

you're entering what i've been in for like years of this constant like wait a second now i think this

[2:57:32 - 2:57:38] ▶

because um there there was a lot of uh well you know the the classic thing where like with disinfor

[2:57:38 - 2:57:48] ▶

ufo disinformation they often say like some of it you know some real stuff is sort of peppered into

[2:57:48 - 2:57:54] ▶

yeah absolutely i think it was that kind of thing too where like maybe there was real you know et ufo

[2:57:54 - 2:58:01] ▶

related research going on with some of this mind control stuff peppered in just to throw off the

[2:58:01 - 2:58:08] ▶

riser he was a um philosophy professor at university of pittsburgh in the 60s and 70s um

[2:58:25 - 2:58:34] ▶

and he wrote a book called cosmic humanism which i've only read some of but it's basically uh this

[2:58:35 - 2:58:43] ▶

here with this tone stuff but anyways buharaj knew this guy they exchanged like dozens and dozens of

[2:59:14 - 2:59:20] ▶

and again this goes back for the hundredth time of like buharaj's real interest in this stuff but riser

[2:59:53 - 2:59:59] ▶

tones and sound with space kids and can you while they're in a trance there's a lot of experiments

[3:00:15 - 3:00:21] ▶

where like i'm going to play this certain tone and can you kind of like connect with that tone while

[3:00:21 - 3:00:28] ▶

now all sorts of stuff like that um so i guess what i'm getting at is maybe there was some real

[3:00:34 - 3:00:44] ▶

yeah and you think of einstein as being totally opposed to yeah well i think with riser like a lot

[3:01:12 - 3:01:17] ▶

of guys like he started doing more you know quote-unquote legitimate research but he got he got obsessed

[3:01:17 - 3:01:23] ▶

with this again this this theory of tone sound connecting the universe this is how everything

[3:01:23 - 3:01:28] ▶

works and so him and puharic were um exchanging a lot of letters about like you know do you have

[3:01:28 - 3:01:36] ▶

thing it's constant it's all over various cia air force documents you know i sort of document a lot

[3:02:18 - 3:02:25] ▶

of this stuff hastings documents it it's it was definitely a thing 64 there's a famous case at

[3:02:25 - 3:02:30] ▶

it's not just like all of that was fake yeah yeah i just think it got muddled at some point yeah and

[3:02:50 - 3:02:56] ▶

whatever well you know it's weird you say that because on a lot of the tapes there's mention of

[3:03:09 - 3:03:13] ▶

there are some sort of computers involved on which end though because are they recording what they're

[3:03:22 - 3:03:31] ▶

source of data and there's a lot of talk about about that and again like what we have are tapes

[3:03:50 - 3:03:58] ▶

and and tons of them and hundreds of hours so like you just all you can do is piece together

[3:03:59 - 3:04:03] ▶

other end like a lot of them probably know the history that you know at this point well that's

[3:04:17 - 3:04:21] ▶

mm-hmm um one of the space kids who i'm close with like yeah she she was like you know shocked i i i

[3:04:37 - 3:04:46] ▶

because again what what they didn't understand what i think a lot of people didn't understand who were

[3:04:46 - 3:04:52] ▶

who was who was most certainly cia who was at the at austin at the time of these exact space kids

[3:05:04 - 3:05:11] ▶

experiments this one of the spaces like i never even knew knew that like you're telling me this for the

[3:05:11 - 3:05:15] ▶

first time so it's a mix between i think to be quite honest i think a lot of them want to believe

[3:05:15 - 3:05:27] ▶

that i mean i you know so i think um some of them want to just try to say hey look we were told we

[3:05:52 - 3:05:58] ▶

free you know etc and a few of them um have become more open like the guy from mexico city i told you

[3:06:04 - 3:06:12] ▶

where i think some of the things that i told them made them say wait a second i didn't know that and all

[3:06:12 - 3:06:18] ▶

of a sudden after all these years they themselves are going wait what is that and whose name is and

[3:06:18 - 3:06:24] ▶

one of the trippiest people that interacted with puharic who who he probably had plans for and

[3:06:44 - 3:06:51] ▶

almost seems like the subject of some you know kind of maniacal experiment is valerie ranson yeah who is

[3:06:51 - 3:06:58] ▶

anything it was it was some sort of um uh program to i can't remember it was sort of like a snap

[3:07:28 - 3:07:35] ▶

was she was part of a program like that but apparently she became very interested in the ufo

[3:07:41 - 3:07:49] ▶

and i think knew a lot we have a tape recording of um this guy elvis star who was very very high

[3:08:29 - 3:08:37] ▶

up uh i can't remember his exact role he was like maybe head of the army in this in the 60s some high

[3:08:37 - 3:08:46] ▶

up role in the army but anyways he was very very connected his pictures of him with like every you

[3:08:46 - 3:08:50] ▶

know president during the 60s 70s like there was a tape of him saying like i met valerie ranson in the

[3:08:50 - 3:08:57] ▶

white house um she believed she was in touch with extraterrestrials and he kind of makes a joke like

[3:08:57 - 3:09:04] ▶

what do i know maybe she was but that kind of firmly places her in that circle because there's a lot of

[3:09:04 - 3:09:09] ▶

the head of uh army something or other and then he went on to become the president of like west

[3:09:21 - 3:09:28] ▶

virginia university but he was a part of all these like weird science um uh companies and weird energy

[3:09:28 - 3:09:37] ▶

llc or something that valerie had some sort of connection to and this guy was like consulting for

[3:09:44 - 3:09:51] ▶

that or he was connected to a lot of like weird stuff basically and it was very little on him

[3:09:51 - 3:09:58] ▶

other than his more official kind of government roles but um he he has this because he was writing

[3:09:58 - 3:10:04] ▶

a memoir and we found this tape where he was kind of like dictating um the what he was writing and he

[3:10:04 - 3:10:10] ▶

says yeah i met her she was in the white house a lot um she knew a lot of people but yeah she basically

[3:10:10 - 3:10:16] ▶

that she in effect had to pass on to like important scientists she predicted the failure of one of these

[3:10:22 - 3:10:28] ▶

really involved in a lot of tesla technology research a lot of elf research and a lot of people

[3:10:42 - 3:10:47] ▶

i don't remember but it was some program that she like ran in dc and as part of the nixon administration

[3:11:22 - 3:11:28] ▶

was doing some sort of work for the nro and um experimenting with satellites and messages from

[3:11:46 - 3:11:52] ▶

because we have a tape recording of her um that was a phone call that was recorded but yeah if there's

[3:12:07 - 3:12:14] ▶

like any crazy enigma in this world that someone needs to like get to the bottom of it's it's her

[3:12:14 - 3:12:21] ▶

of know where where she is and stuff but but it's really just strange she was very involved with gordon

[3:12:33 - 3:12:39] ▶

and so from what i understand she was kind of like going around and even jacques says this like she was

[3:12:46 - 3:12:54] ▶

just trying to create this network of of you know high up government individuals and people to kind

[3:12:54 - 3:13:00] ▶

of like start getting interested in in advanced technology tesla technology elf stuff but all the

[3:13:00 - 3:13:08] ▶

like i wouldn't go there you should just kind of stop now and i've gotten all that stuff whoa so like

[3:14:34 - 3:14:40] ▶

what's going on what do you think do you have it well so for first of all a little context for the

[3:14:40 - 3:14:45] ▶

alongside gary nolan but he's like a long time guy who kind of pops up in ufo lore kind of akin to

[3:15:15 - 3:15:22] ▶

uh how put off but really seems to be as deep as anybody specifically on kind of the

[3:15:22 - 3:15:27] ▶

the psychological kind of you know um you know neuroscientific dimension of of this whole thing

[3:15:28 - 3:15:34] ▶

so what what do you do you speculate as to what valerie well yeah i have a couple of things but

[3:15:34 - 3:15:40] ▶

just think he like it's just another example of someone who's like oh her yeah i can't be involved

[3:15:45 - 3:15:51] ▶

like you you're better off like not going there kind of thing so a couple of speculations firstly and

[3:15:51 - 3:15:58] ▶

this came from someone um uh named bruce erickson who's this kind of like new age researcher guy

[3:15:58 - 3:16:04] ▶

but um he speculates that she was sort of um like a spy and and and the type that would maybe sleep

[3:16:22 - 3:16:30] ▶

with with somebody for information and a lot of reasons that these men in particular don't want to

[3:16:30 - 3:16:36] ▶

that i know literally one that exists of her that's not true there's one online and there's one that i

[3:16:53 - 3:17:00] ▶

have in the puharach archives of her at lab nine um and you know yeah she was very good looking so that

[3:17:00 - 3:17:06] ▶

was this one theory is that she was kind of like getting information um on behalf of who i don't know

[3:17:06 - 3:17:12] ▶

but this you know you hear about that uh happening you know sleep to that kind of thing so that was

[3:17:12 - 3:17:17] ▶

was again with the same idea of being an attractive woman was able to lure in uh individuals to help

[3:17:27 - 3:17:38] ▶

with funding for certain projects and hey i'm a part of this thing you should be a part of this

[3:17:38 - 3:17:43] ▶

thing because again she was always on these boards of these sort of weird energy companies and things

[3:17:43 - 3:17:48] ▶

interview of her on youtube so you you probably know this youtube account eyes on cinema oh yeah so

[3:17:54 - 3:18:01] ▶

weird and the thing is it checks out of what we know from her and most of the information is from the

[3:18:28 - 3:18:33] ▶

point is everyone i know who knew valerie i said oh this is great a video exists of her now sent it to

[3:18:45 - 3:18:52] ▶

back she's so she's the biggest enigma in this whole world every single one of them nope oh man what

[3:19:15 - 3:19:21] ▶

and her friends saw it and then after that she continued to have bizarre um sightings of ufo sightings

[3:19:33 - 3:19:41] ▶

stuff happens of her getting involved with buhar oh this was like early 70s she claims this happens

[3:21:14 - 3:21:20] ▶

so that's a rabbit hole in and of itself but but basically yeah she spent like a good amount of time at lab

[3:21:55 - 3:22:02] ▶

touch with me completely out of the blue and this has happened a few times throughout the the making of

[3:22:42 - 3:22:47] ▶

him and what do you have and we should we should talk and and that kind of thing this one guy weirdly

[3:22:53 - 3:23:00] ▶

and he's like you know have you heard of valerie rantzone i said yeah he goes oh would you want to

[3:23:13 - 3:23:19] ▶

yeah yeah this isn't me kind of thing sure and that you know again i'm very level head that it really

[3:23:56 - 3:24:03] ▶

strange wow and i tried the email that he had that he claimed was valerie's of course it like you know

[3:24:32 - 3:24:39] ▶

incredible yeah i mean there's a lot to get in with into with her but that's that's the gist of

[3:24:57 - 3:25:05] ▶

nixon white house who's to claim she's channeling aliens and also happens to be on the board of all

[3:25:19 - 3:25:24] ▶

these sort of you know spooky science outfits that seem to stem from exotic tesla you know uh

[3:25:24 - 3:25:32] ▶

think it was like 83 but it was kind of detailing all the research that had gone into like you know

[3:25:51 - 3:25:58] ▶

those those types of weapons and um you know radio towers that can beam a certain frequency that can

[3:25:58 - 3:26:05] ▶

agitate people and etc so that was kind of like the wild west and that in the late 70s there of like

[3:26:05 - 3:26:10] ▶

the middle of that and um you know there was a lot of people running around researching that at the

[3:26:17 - 3:26:23] ▶

time and i think there was also a lot of research happening of um you know what's the potential of

[3:26:23 - 3:26:29] ▶

that so it's so wild um what are the implications for all of this on modern ufo disclosure which seems

[3:26:39 - 3:26:49] ▶

to usually emphasize kind of aerospace contractors secret you know nuts and bolts weapons technology

[3:26:49 - 3:26:58] ▶

faster than light travel that sort of thing what are the implications of the stuff you're looking into

[3:26:58 - 3:27:04] ▶

for for for that i think it's i honestly i i think it's more of the same that we talked about earlier

[3:27:04 - 3:27:14] ▶

i think there's some there's some truth peppered into a lot of you know false going on and i think that

[3:27:14 - 3:27:22] ▶

stuff and talking to people to to kind of like keep going with it you know yeah well this is a i mean

[3:27:49 - 3:27:56] ▶

missing for a lot of people you know prior to your movie so i really hope uh people go check it out i

[3:28:00 - 3:28:07] ▶

think it's going to be you know make make a lot of waves and update a lot of people's understanding of

[3:28:07 - 3:28:12] ▶

well it's going to be for purchase um on you know itunes and youtube and that kind of thing

[3:28:19 - 3:28:26] ▶

yeah we're going to do kind of like this uh release now with um age of disclosure okay we're going to

[3:28:26 - 3:28:33] ▶

do like a you know you can purchase it for a certain amount of bundle situation yeah okay cool but there's

[3:28:33 - 3:28:39] ▶

that's crazy oh oh um the one thing i was going to mention is um this is again an example of something

[3:28:52 - 3:28:58] ▶

like very recently like bobby ray inman yeah i know a lot of people are talking about right now i called

[3:28:58 - 3:29:04] ▶

him because because he was uh head of uh naval intelligence i think during this exact time um that

[3:29:04 - 3:29:12] ▶

who hart is doing a lot of space kids stuff like late 70s into the early 80s and a lot of elf stuff

[3:29:12 - 3:29:17] ▶

i found his number online what yeah i kid you not it's one of those classic white pages sites where it

[3:29:22 - 3:29:29] ▶

was like a bunch of different numbers and oh my god none of these are ever going to work and i was

[3:29:29 - 3:29:33] ▶

like hello and it was him it was one of them oh my god and he was pretty nice but i just straight up

[3:29:33 - 3:29:38] ▶

naval intelligence at one point uh was like a big funder of buharic not not only back in the 50s but

[3:30:00 - 3:30:06] ▶

he said the the deepest you know kind of core was the o and i office of naval intelligence they really

[3:30:14 - 3:30:21] ▶

to find dog she has a huge archive at berkeley of all of her research and i i had someone go there and

[3:30:41 - 3:30:47] ▶

look and we couldn't find anything but but um you know they they were working with a lot of people then

[3:30:47 - 3:30:55] ▶

information as well he was the i think uh uh deputy director of the cia and the director of the nsa

[3:31:02 - 3:31:10] ▶

is uh not unlike valerie one of the space kids who we did an interview because we couldn't find her but

[3:31:17 - 3:31:25] ▶

she's on a lot of these tapes so it was this woman named sharon so um you know sharon with two r's

[3:31:25 - 3:31:32] ▶

information he was always working with her there's pictures of her and she just disappeared and

[3:31:51 - 3:31:57] ▶

like she was the real deal and she was sort of pulled into a project like that that's why she's just

[3:32:10 - 3:32:16] ▶

kind of like wiped off the face there there's nothing about her anywhere again i went to the

[3:32:16 - 3:32:20] ▶

to talk about her when you bring her up so that was another example of like okay maybe there's some

[3:32:26 - 3:32:31] ▶

i i wish we could find her like she was a friend of mine and she disappeared just like she was a the whole

[3:32:38 - 3:32:43] ▶

program was a feeder maybe into something deeper yeah there's a lot of conspiracy stuff like that out there

[3:32:43 - 3:32:49] ▶

conviction you know i think even the makers of stranger things say that uh it's based off of you

[3:32:56 - 3:33:02] ▶

they're told to like you know how do you interact with this exotic piece of metal or uh you know pick a

[3:33:32 - 3:33:39] ▶

card or you know things like that does this add to your conviction that this was happening in sort of a

[3:33:39 - 3:33:44] ▶

in the entire country yeah and part of me is thinks it's a beautiful amazing thing and obviously in

[3:34:31 - 3:34:37] ▶

my opinion i think i don't think it's all a psyop i think that some of these autistic non-verbal

[3:34:37 - 3:34:44] ▶

children are actually they do have really amazing abilities it's unfortunate that some of them like

[3:34:44 - 3:34:51] ▶

this woman that went on danny jones um i think are actually faking things the mother of one of the kids

[3:34:51 - 3:34:58] ▶

of you know again what i think is an underlying real phenomena but does it does it make you ask

[3:35:05 - 3:35:10] ▶

questions around why is all of this stuff coming back into vogue it feels like if you were to take an

[3:35:10 - 3:35:18] ▶

index of aliens psi and psychedelics um and you were to you were to you know in like say it's like

[3:35:18 - 3:35:27] ▶

late 60s early 70s you'd like lose a lot of money into today but now if you were to invest in these

[3:35:32 - 3:35:37] ▶

etf analogy further are there financial or corporate interests behind the repopularization of some of

[3:35:50 - 3:35:58] ▶

these things because a part of me is extremely idealistic about them coming out because i do think

[3:35:58 - 3:36:04] ▶

it touches on kind of deeper architectures and nature of reality and then there's another part of

[3:36:04 - 3:36:10] ▶

me where i'm like it's got to be coming out now because of some military industrial complex reason

[3:36:10 - 3:36:16] ▶

pieces together about the history of all this stuff and i think the fact that it's coming out now is

[3:36:23 - 3:36:28] ▶

interesting because of all this you know this resurgence of interest in it but um i know what you

[3:36:28 - 3:36:35] ▶

mean i don't know like i talked to a kid who claimed he was part of the gate program and i won't say

[3:36:35 - 3:36:40] ▶

is a lot of fun one of my honestly like i love information dense podcasts especially ones that

[3:37:32 - 3:37:38] ▶

sense make after that like how does this fit into some coherent tapestry of what's actually happening

[3:37:49 - 3:37:55] ▶

of

This CIA Scientist Led Alien Contact Ceremonies for Elites