And I started pulling at the threads of it. And I think one of the fascinating things that happened,
I was starting to research Nazi occultism, because that was going to be a chapter of
heard is that JFK, you know, uh, fires Dulles. Dulles is sort of licking his wounds and really
angry at JFK and the Brown brothers Harriman and re-operationalizes this S force to then take
It seems like a level of coordination that is above the heads of all of the participants.
Um, another example of, of that possibly is you talk about some of, you know, kind of people who
And so, and Fred Krisman is, what is the Maury Island incident for, for people that aren't aware
that there was actually more than one UFO incident in 1947? Right. We always think of Roswell when we think of 47,
Fred Crisman then makes a few phone calls after his friend, uh, gets rained on by a UFO. And these
want the full picture, head over to the American Alchemy magazine we just launched on Substack.
That's where we deep dive into all sorts of crazy topics that we don't have time to fit into every
Oh yeah. We got all the time in the world. All right. So there's, there's a crazy church.
He was possibly mentally unstable. He was in hospital various times for this. And yet he's the go-to guy
to get background information on anybody. Right. Martin was incredible that way. And he stayed
in his persona as a priest and bishop the rest of his life. So the photographs I have of him in the 1970s,
years after the Kennedy assassination stuff that was going on in New Orleans. And he's in the, in the,
the whole outfit, right? So you, wow. So you're saying that the Orthodox Catholic Church in the U.S.
at the time was acting as some sort of front, possibly coordinating or helping with the JFK assassination?
Absolutely. The American Orthodox Catholic Church legally came into being in 1965. So it's two years after the
assassination legally in New York. However, it preexisted in different places around the country.
And it got coalesced into one group in 65. And this is where it gets even stranger because in 1965,
when all this is done, the leader of that church in the Bronx, in New York of all places,
of weirdness in my family. We had traveled around a lot, uh, here and there. Strange things happened
to us. And for, for a while in 1965, 66, um, I was fascinated with occultism in general, at least what
aboriginal uprising in Australia outside of Perth. It was very specific. And we thought, oh my God,
this is going to happen. People are going to die. So my mother and I, you were told by the spirits,
fancies fantasies, right? And the fantasies are really powerful and really dangerous and fantasies can
sometimes become ideologies. And when they become ideologies, they take on another power because they
UFOs? Because you and Tom DeLonge, who I think is extremely knowledgeable on this topic and, and both,
channels. Suddenly that was all over the place. Right. That one particular presentation got a lot of
views, hundreds of thousands of views when it first came out. So I think that might've been the trigger
No, come on.
No. Yeah.
Wreck of the Titan or Futility, Wreck of the Titan. And the ship is called the Titan and it crashes in
the middle of the Atlantic at night. And it's an iceberg and it's the largest, you know, liner of its time.
before it ever happened.
Wow. Wow.
The glitch is the proof. The glitch is the proof that this is a malleable reality that we live in.
in a regular ceremony. Then you have sex in the cemetery, either on the ground,
so, yeah, if you have a, you know, kind of a whole epistemology that is more based on meaning than time.
Right. And connections between events versus just some like, you know, um, flowing of time that is
sort of permanent. Um, you know, you have the, you know, the, the proverbial kind of river of time that,
you know, you get out, you can't, you never get out in the same place twice. Right.
That will probably be get a whole different, you know, epistemology in life that you would lead and,
and, and society and culture, you know, if you extrapolate that out. So it's fascinating. You know,
time is the most used noun in the English language and it's completely undefinable. It's definable
only with respect to the movement of bodies or even, you know, in, in science, it's sort of, you know,
oscillations on an electromagnetic wave or something. Sure.
But it's, uh, it's so weird and it's weird scientifically too. You know, it's taken as
this kind of, um, classical axiom in quantum mechanics. Uh, but you know, you have time
uncertainty with level of energy, you know, just like you have position and momentum uncertainty.
say, that's how we started on this planet. This, this is how civilization began. That we,
in the river, you know, outside of Sumer and comes up out of a vehicle of some kind and he's wearing a
weird suit with a strange hat, which we can talk about later. And he walks up to the people and he
Tom is sending me these, these long emails that he's getting, right? And he's saying,
what the hell do you make of this? Uh, and, um, we, we get on the phone and we start talking about
Mm. Right. So they replaced the rituals of a baptism, for instance, with a,
a Nordic style christening. They replaced the marriage rights with a Nordic style marriage right.
They had the result they wanted. They're looking for stuff to confirm it. They didn't look for stuff
that didn't confirm it, only for stuff that confirmed it. So here's the evidence that confirms
extended ourselves and trying to invade Russia for crying out loud. Napoleon could have told you not to
do that, right? So all of these mistakes we made are not ours. They're somebody else's. So naturally,
And Himmler, one or two cards short of a deck, right? He builds Weifelsberg Castle,
right? Which I went to and I did a TV thing like 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago for that,
Right.
You had Wernher von Braun going through these rituals. His mentor, Herman Oberth, on record,
been shipped out of the bank of Lisbon by submarine. 20 tons went to Macau. Well, they all went to Macau.
20 tons went into China and 20 tons went into Indonesia. That 20 tons of gold probably jump-started what
you're talking about all the Nazi scientists, uh, Walter Dornberger from Peenemunde, his first
posting was to Wright-Patterson. He was in Wright-Patterson when the Roswell debris was brought,
And what was the overall context, right? If you look at it, you're looking at a geopolitical sense
to the United States government at the time, we preferred to have the Nazis so that we could
You know, the Nazi ideal was get rid of all of these people because they're in our way.
It was a Horton. It was never going to fly. It crashed. End of story.
Lie to me.
Sure.
We're used to that.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm comfortable with you lying to me. You've been lying to us for years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lie to me again and say, no, we don't have a saucer.
Don't leave it open-ended.
Yeah.
Don't leave it like, maybe, you know, we have a flying saucer.
What does that mean?
Yeah.
Why would you say that?
Is that part of a disinformation project that's been underway since 1947?
You guys haven't gotten over that yet? You know, we've gotten over it, right?
We're done with it, right? We're okay. You can tell us anything at this point.
But they keep...
And then there's guys that come out and say, no, there's definitely a saucer.
And there's people in government who come out and say, there's definitely a saucer.
We saw it, right? There's people in the program.
They were coming out and saying, no, there is definitely there. There's...
Okay. At one point I was talking to a guy called, you've probably heard of him, Michael Aquino.
Oh, yeah.
Infamous guy, right?
Isn't he like a Satanist or something?
Yeah. Temple of Set. He found it. He was with LeVay's Satanic Church of Satan.
He had the weird eyebrows. All the rest of it. He was implicated in all sorts of things.
follow. And that was their kind of modus operandi. Stay on top of them, feed them all sorts of weird
shit. They believe in this, make ghosts. They believe in vampires, create vampires, right?
And it's an old model. Again, a station wagon, the kind with the wood trim, you know, the old
doing this. Um, it's, it, believe me, it connects, it all connects up. We formed this church. Okay.
undercurrents and connections. And it was like a satanic sort of serial killer movie with ritual
overtones that took place in a Catholic church during Holy Communion and everything. So it was all this,
sent to prison. They served time for it, uh, in federal facilities. So, you know, my friend was
wise to stay or get as far away from it as possible, but still, I mean, he was the church they belonged to
various occult societies and stuff who had the connections to do some of the, the, uh, the typesetting.
In those days, there were no computers per se. So making a book was much more laborious than it is
that you'll find online. They mostly emphasize the drugs and LSD research of operation often,
but some of the side operations involved studying witchcraft, studying occultism, studying magic,
there that was funded by CIA for a long time. The guy who ran that was the guy who, to go back again
he even said silicon, which makes me think like the modern AI race with compute, because all these chips
are on the Nvidia chips are all silicon. Right.
So, um, interesting. Well, that's wild. Yeah. You know, um, something that I have to credit to
Lincoln that he always brings up is the space Delta seven patch. This is, this is now connecting to your
amazing book, Stairway to Heaven, which I love because it, it creates, you know, if you're looking
for this Joseph Campbell style kind of underpinning architecture behind all the world's religions,
you have to look to some of these more esoteric practices and you have in Judaism, the Merkava,
which is, you know, the idea of Ezekiel going up on the chariot. Um, but you have uncovered all this
research around seven levels being this recurring theme across Chinese shanking Taoism, Islam, um,
Rosicrucianism, like all these different, I mean, the ziggurats and heck a load and yeah,
I believe you're supposed to be 35 and like married and very grounded before even starting
Edel, very famous Kabbalah scholar, right? Probably the one who inherited the mantle of Gershom Sholem.
if it can be part of a grounded approach to this material without taking on board all of the
religious symbolisms and restrictions and everything else that's involved, but understanding what those
David Wright- Skinwalker.
Paul Jayne- For Skinwalker.
there's top secret, not much else, but there's a lot of gray areas, right? And a lot of abuse of the
classification system as well. But there's just a lot of gray areas where this is concerned and things
Or whatever it is, whatever kind of weird cockamay be regulations they have for this,
or they can't get fluttered every year, you know, the lie detectors to determine, you know,
I mean, we know he was visited by people from the government, right? This, he pretty much is open
about that. But then it dies. The story dies after that. What do you do? How do you handle it?
civilians are people. You have just as much access to the, you know, maybe they have some, you know,
and human ideas. We think they must, of course they'll want to talk to the president. Why?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
congressional hearings where everybody's talking about, and David Grush talks about this.
Elizondo talks about this. George Knapp testified in front of Congress about this.
talk about UFOs or like the famous event mentioned in John Alexander's book. Was it Ben Rich that he
talked about? A guy at Lockheed? Yeah. I mean, Ben Rich said some remarkable stuff.
But then he was, I thought he was arrested by the Nazis. Then they were like,
are you a fascist? And he said, I'm a super fascist.
cause you're looking for confirmation of God. It's like a Gnostic quest where you're like poking the bear
as much as you can to get like God to show himself to you or something. And then, but then once,
Yeah. But no one knew what that meant.
Yeah.
Okay. But I, my ears and eyes are open, right? Yeah. And so all of this is going on. So
Field Engineering for us was, was the red flag. We knew what that meant. And then when I saw Lazar's
being a field, a field engineering officer as part of Bendix is often.
Right. Often. Not always. Associated with intelligence. Right. And he was in that group
all over the world in other positions, not having to do with field engineering, that got the traction of
local governments that didn't like them. We had a guy, we lost a guy in Uruguay, was captured by the
People are saying it's angels, it's demons, it's space aliens. It's from another dimension, whatever.
We're, we're, we're throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks, but it's something there.
of the, of the UFO? What do we begin? And Harry Reed says, what are you talking about? It's already there.
It's there. Every, all the information is there. You've got it already. It's already in print.
back from a subject, when you sleep on it, revelations happen. When you step away from it for a while,
you go take a walk and that walk could be for a couple of hours or a couple of years. You come back to it
later. Suddenly you see it in a whole new light. You have more information. You have more things to
bring to the table because now you have human experience as well. You have your experience with
the world and now you can look at things a bit more clearly with a bit more nuance and try to
deconstruct a situation that way. I found that's helped me a lot. It's helped me in dealing with
people because people lie to you all the time, right? And they do it sometimes unconsciously. They do
it without knowing they're lying. They're telling you untruths that they think are truths,
but because they're so believable, you believe them. And that's also a problem. You know,
is there truth really truth? I know it's getting really philosophical at this point.
No, it's great. We're losing our, our way here.
Well, I'll give you my, my final, final question, which is no. And that was all really sage advice
and well said in my opinion and, and things I grapple with, you know, being, being in the topic where I'm
that like, you know, this is something that is for you. What, what do you, what do you do at that
point? Well, there's a couple of things. It depends on your own background. Like, um, for instance,
Alchemist, did you enjoy that? Well, here's the thing. That episode was just the tip of the iceberg.
If you want the full picture, head over to the American Alchemy magazine we just launched on