And there are nine people involved in the seance. Now, these are not just some casual nine people
[0:15:13 - 0:15:18] ▶
you pick up, like, you know, your neighbors or something, right? This was a DuPont and an Astor
[0:15:18 - 0:15:24] ▶
And she was the best friend of, I think her name was Mary Douglas, if I'm not mistaken,
[0:16:18 - 0:16:23] ▶
And so he's conducting the seance and he's solving mathematical equations that
[0:17:12 - 0:17:18] ▶
Andrija Pujaric puts to him to see if he's really talking to a spiritual force.
[0:17:18 - 0:17:23] ▶
then being contacted by Uri Geller, who was then discovered by Buharic, brought to the United States
[0:17:58 - 0:18:04] ▶
to be tested. It just, it gets incestuous. But Ruth and Arthur, they have a daughter,
[0:18:04 - 0:18:12] ▶
who's also Ruth. Her name is Ruth Payne. She lives in Texas, by the way. And she's studying Russian.
[0:18:12 - 0:18:22] ▶
She's fascinated by the Russian language. She's a Quaker who wants to study Russian. Don't think
[0:18:22 - 0:18:26] ▶
she ever managed it in her life, but at that moment she wanted to study Russian. And in her
[0:18:26 - 0:18:31] ▶
home, she opens her door to some refugees, you know, people who are recent immigrants from Russia.
[0:18:31 - 0:18:36] ▶
Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife Marina and their kids.
[0:18:36 - 0:18:40] ▶
So they're living with Ruth Payne in this house in Texas. She gets him the job at the
[0:18:40 - 0:18:47] ▶
Texas School Book Depository. So wild. So you have this kind of, uh,
[0:18:47 - 0:18:53] ▶
blue blooded elite adjacent person who's, uh, uh, whose mother engaged in the seance with
[0:18:53 - 0:19:00] ▶
you say, what happened? You know, it's like Kevin Costner reading the thing saying, ask the next
[0:22:12 - 0:22:18] ▶
you know, there were these three quote unquote hobos that were arrested. Right.
[0:24:14 - 0:24:18] ▶
And they think Fred Krisman was one of those hobos. I don't know if you corroborated that at all,
[0:24:18 - 0:24:22] ▶
is here with all these guys. Right. And Guy Bannister died in 64. So he died before
[0:33:13 - 0:33:18] ▶
Garrison could interview him. But Bannister and Jack Martin got into a fist fight.
[0:33:18 - 0:33:24] ▶
under 18 at the time. We couldn't sign legal documents and we couldn't sign a corporation
[0:39:37 - 0:39:41] ▶
But we also know we're in deep shit. If somebody stops us, you know, it's all over. So we know how
[0:46:12 - 0:46:18] ▶
to get out of the church. There's an underground kind of a passageway. It's not really that secret,
[0:46:18 - 0:46:24] ▶
right? Because we needed, we were two 17 year olds, you know, my friend turned 18 that month. So we needed
[0:47:20 - 0:47:27] ▶
So, uh, I, I turned 18 at a different time than my friend did. So he, he got his clearance before I did.
[0:47:39 - 0:47:46] ▶
when you're finished with Jack Martin, can you send him back to us? Right? So it's there. It's in
[0:49:12 - 0:49:18] ▶
print. It's in the files. Well, also a wild synchronicity that you end up
[0:49:18 - 0:49:22] ▶
in the, in two different Orthodox churches. One was the Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia.
[0:51:13 - 0:51:18] ▶
Well, in the Orthodox church, it's almost the same, kind of similar. But there's a prayer and a gesture
[0:53:12 - 0:53:18] ▶
that you do to make this change official, to call down the forces to make this happen. They don't know it
[0:53:18 - 0:53:26] ▶
happening in 1968, right? I'm still 18. By that time, I'm 18 years old. So now, I mean, I'm in the
[0:54:36 - 0:54:42] ▶
I'll never forget him because I had to go to the airport to pick him up. His name was the Holy
[0:56:12 - 0:56:18] ▶
Prophet Alouya. That was his name. H.P. Alouya. Holy Prophet H.P. I picked him up at the airport in,
[0:56:18 - 0:56:25] ▶
It was the contact with spirits. It was a contact with the other side that became an overriding thing.
[1:00:12 - 1:00:18] ▶
And that drained me completely. That was completely something that really bothered me a great deal
[1:00:18 - 1:00:23] ▶
go off the deep end for, if you're already weak, if you're already kind of, you don't have critical
[1:02:12 - 1:02:18] ▶
thinking ability. Um, you don't have a lot of, you know, psychological strength, let's say. Yeah. From
[1:02:18 - 1:02:24] ▶
but there's always that point at which, you know, we don't know. There's always that point where you,
[1:11:14 - 1:11:18] ▶
where they're saying something, they mean something else than what is really being translated. Right.
[1:11:18 - 1:11:23] ▶
was one chapter on the assassination with all these weird guys. Yeah. And then in a later volume
[1:17:57 - 1:18:01] ▶
called communion, there's a chapter on the UFO phenomenon per se and conversations I had with
[1:18:01 - 1:18:06] ▶
Whitley Strieber who had contacted me years earlier, uh, for something kind of unrelated. But,
[1:18:06 - 1:18:12] ▶
you know, we began this long conversation on email, uh, on, on this subject also.
[1:18:12 - 1:18:17] ▶
What do you think they meant when they said, Hey, come speak about the secret space program? Because
[1:18:17 - 1:18:23] ▶
that, uh, term carries a lot of baggage and is often associated with the network Gaia and Corey
[1:18:23 - 1:18:31] ▶
Good and you know, this idea of 20 and back or whatever, and this sort of, you know, all that sort of
[1:18:31 - 1:18:37] ▶
stuff, which seems like honestly BS to me. And yet you write about celestial ascent and, you know,
[1:18:37 - 1:18:45] ▶
the idea that, um, you know, you can, you can ascend through seven levels and that there's sort of this
[1:18:45 - 1:18:52] ▶
map and that, you know, maps to, you know, um, the big dipper and, and, and, uh, and, and the North Star.
[1:18:52 - 1:18:59] ▶
And so, um, does that somehow have to do with some sort of secret space program? That concept,
[1:18:59 - 1:19:06] ▶
the 20 and back and all this other stuff, that's, that's supposed to be literal.
[1:19:14 - 1:19:18] ▶
That's supposed to be, you get into a spaceship and you go.
[1:19:18 - 1:19:20] ▶
choreography going on behind the scenes that most humans aren't aware of? Maybe a few are?
[1:22:12 - 1:22:18] ▶
Well, the whole, the whole point of sinister forces was that there are sinister forces.
[1:22:18 - 1:22:22] ▶
It was like four months before it happened or whatever. You have the adventures of
[1:26:18 - 1:26:22] ▶
And you think of it as a Muslim, it is a Muslim, primarily country, but it's replete with Hindu
[1:28:10 - 1:28:18] ▶
and Buddhist statuary, archaeological sites going back hundreds and hundreds of years,
[1:28:18 - 1:28:24] ▶
quantum context and, um, and then gravity and time are obviously extremely interlinked and related.
[1:36:12 - 1:36:18] ▶
Like time slows, the closer you get to like a black hole, for example. So time itself is just so weird.
[1:36:18 - 1:36:24] ▶
Kind of a, of a prologue to, to this. So,
[1:38:18 - 1:38:20] ▶
uh, you know, the inventor of the Oregon box and Oregon therapy and all of that. But he was a very
[1:51:12 - 1:51:18] ▶
well known. He was anti-communist and anti-fascist both at a time when that position was untenable
[1:51:18 - 1:51:24] ▶
point until we come to terms with it. So the three books on that is to try to show people that there
[1:55:13 - 1:55:18] ▶
was a universal kind of Nazism. Right. And they were fascinated with occultism. Some of them were
[1:55:18 - 1:55:25] ▶
before Hitler showed up. So the swastika was their symbol and it was a symbol of the Aryans. And they got
[1:59:13 - 1:59:18] ▶
that again from the theosophical writings and pseudo-theosophical writings, people copying Blavatsky.
[1:59:18 - 1:59:23] ▶
This is what happened at this time. This is what happened at that time.
[2:07:16 - 2:07:18] ▶
And did he say it was like Hyperborea? Like this?
[2:07:18 - 2:07:20] ▶
years later in 1947.
[2:09:16 - 2:09:18] ▶
Well, is there a connection? I think so. I think we made a pretty good case for it in secret machines,
[2:09:18 - 2:09:24] ▶
modern Czechoslovakia and Poland. And they were building what seemed to be saucers. Like, Rudolf Schreiber,
[2:15:11 - 2:15:18] ▶
who was a technician there, said that one climbed to 40,000 feet in a few seconds. You know, Richard Mita,
[2:15:18 - 2:15:24] ▶
I think, yeah, I think it's a possibility that what crashed in Roswell was, was human
[2:17:14 - 2:17:18] ▶
technology prosaic. I'm not sure. Yeah, sure. Exotic human. Exotic human.
[2:17:18 - 2:17:22] ▶
That's okay. Wow. So he was at Oberammergau and yeah, it's interesting, you know? And, and I think
[2:17:58 - 2:18:04] ▶
you, you do have also the Avro car project, which was an attempt to, to build a flying saucer.
[2:18:04 - 2:18:09] ▶
And it originally was in Canada, but then it moved over to Wright-Patterson as project Y.
[2:18:10 - 2:18:14] ▶
Yeah. And there was always this feeling that project Y was a front for something deeper,
[2:18:14 - 2:18:18] ▶
but it was, there were, there are videos of them trying to like fly this flying saucer just had a,
[2:18:18 - 2:18:24] ▶
you know, radial gas turbine engine. So kind of like when I was a kid, yeah, when I was a kid in
[2:18:24 - 2:18:30] ▶
the, in the 19 late 1950s, you could buy a plastic model of the Avro. That's wild. That's so wild.
[2:18:30 - 2:18:36] ▶
I had it when I was a kid. It's crazy to see. I mean, there, it looks like a flying saucer.
[2:18:36 - 2:18:41] ▶
There's like, you know, um, there, they really does. There's a, a wind turbine photos of it being
[2:18:41 - 2:18:46] ▶
tested. And it looks like you're like, I I'm in star Wars right now. Like this, it's remarkable.
[2:18:46 - 2:18:52] ▶
And then we, we do, I think have documented evidence that Richard Mita, who was from
[2:18:52 - 2:18:56] ▶
Skoda works and commerce stop made his way to at least the Avro car project that was going on in
[2:18:57 - 2:19:03] ▶
Hmm. That's kind of, um,
[2:26:15 - 2:26:18] ▶
So it was a machine to give emotional support and moral support towards, you know, eradicating your
[2:27:10 - 2:27:18] ▶
enemies on a moral level. It wasn't a practical thing, but it was a moral thing that said people,
[2:27:18 - 2:27:23] ▶
Why would you say that?
[2:35:15 - 2:35:18] ▶
Is that part of a disinformation project that's been underway since 1947?
[2:35:18 - 2:35:22] ▶
Yes. They're all there. They're all hanging out. They're having a wild old time. And they love
[2:37:13 - 2:37:18] ▶
Aquino. They all want their picture taken with this guy. What?
[2:37:18 - 2:37:22] ▶
things. What were the accusations?
[2:38:17 - 2:38:18] ▶
Uh, child abuse. Jesus.
[2:38:18 - 2:38:20] ▶
Sure. No, but the pressure from Dodie feeding him false information, somebody is already
[2:42:13 - 2:42:18] ▶
basically. Um, and so I'm unloading packages from the car and I look up and I notice there's an old
[2:48:10 - 2:48:18] ▶
model black Cadillac, uh, idling right in front of the house. And the driver appears to be holding
[2:48:18 - 2:48:27] ▶
cult somewhere, you know, and they came out very sweetly and looked at me as I'm desperate to get out
[2:50:13 - 2:50:18] ▶
of my driveway saying, can you tell us where the DeVilbiss family lives? DeVilbiss. And I said,
[2:50:18 - 2:50:26] ▶
me on the shoulder and that's not done in Singapore. You know what I mean? It's like,
[2:53:12 - 2:53:18] ▶
of course there's tourists there, but people don't, they're not touchy feely in that part of the world.
[2:53:18 - 2:53:21] ▶
Shout out to Lincoln. American alchemy researcher, friend, and kind of informal understudy of Peter
[2:58:10 - 2:58:18] ▶
Lavenda. That sounds sad. That sounds dangerous.
[2:58:18 - 2:58:21] ▶
like 18 years old, I suppose. Right. Again, no internet, boys and girls. So I knew nothing about
[3:01:43 - 3:01:49] ▶
long, but it was there. And you could just dial them up and ask them. So I dialed up, you know,
[3:03:14 - 3:03:18] ▶
you could ask for anybody, any famous actor, actress, it would give you some form of contact information.
[3:03:18 - 3:03:22] ▶
Babylonian. And it was a place that was supposed to be the entrance to the underworld. It exists today,
[3:17:13 - 3:17:18] ▶
started to make sense that didn't make sense back in 1975. But with the passage of time and, you know,
[3:17:57 - 3:18:03] ▶
sober looking back at it, things kind of start connecting more than they used to. But from an
[3:18:03 - 3:18:08] ▶
unbiased perspective, I can't be unbiased. I was involved with it since like the beginning. But
[3:18:08 - 3:18:13] ▶
from my unbiased perspective, it's a book with the same name. And it's quite possible that somebody knew
[3:18:13 - 3:18:20] ▶
about it. Lovecraft heard the name, you know, and crafted his idea of what the Necronomicon should be
[3:18:20 - 3:18:27] ▶
based on that, that he just simply heard the name and that the name was around. Because there isn't a lot in
[3:18:27 - 3:18:33] ▶
there that says that screams Lovecraft. But there are pieces that do, you know?
[3:18:33 - 3:18:38] ▶
Well, and real quick before we get into the government's interest in this topic, which, you know,
[3:18:38 - 3:18:45] ▶
is mind blowing that the government strategic air command might be interested in a book about the
[3:18:45 - 3:18:51] ▶
And references ancient, you know, Sumerian myth and stuff. I mean, that's fascinating. But, um,
[3:18:52 - 3:18:59] ▶
time. And you came upon maybe the occult book, which is the Necronomicon. Right. Which is like this,
[3:21:12 - 3:21:18] ▶
like the most forbidden book that you're not supposed to possess, which ends up kind of being true for
[3:21:18 - 3:21:23] ▶
The story has been around. I don't know who's promulgated it, but it's been around. So yeah, that,
[3:22:14 - 3:22:18] ▶
that's kind of weird, but imagine me, but you know, like 40 years ago, uh, that's pretty much
[3:22:18 - 3:22:23] ▶
But when he was poor, when he was destitute in Vienna, trying to get into art school and selling
[3:31:12 - 3:31:18] ▶
postcards on the streets of Vienna, he became enthralled with a bunch of occult magazines that
[3:31:18 - 3:31:23] ▶
Christian order that was going to wipe out all the mongrel races, you know, from Europe and all
[3:32:13 - 3:32:18] ▶
the other religions. It would be the secret society at first, but then it would rule Germany. So Hitler,
[3:32:18 - 3:32:24] ▶
They see, they hallucinate all kinds of stuff. Yeah.
[3:34:16 - 3:34:18] ▶
to walk with God, to, to, to, to see God's throne, to see the heavens and then come back down? Do you
[3:39:13 - 3:39:18] ▶
think that's possible? Again, the problem is our use of language and words. And what do we mean by all
[3:39:18 - 3:39:22] ▶
put into stone, which is 300 years after Christ died, um, a lot of interpretations were looked at,
[3:41:18 - 3:41:25] ▶
together a story and as I always tell people, we still don't know what was on the 18 and a half
[3:41:58 - 3:42:03] ▶
Is there, you know, there's the parable of the parties where you have four rabbis try to ascend to
[3:42:12 - 3:42:18] ▶
heaven and only one comes down, you know, intact. Right.
[3:42:18 - 3:42:22] ▶
hydrocarbons on some weird meteor from, you know, Mars or something, right? But not like bodies,
[3:50:18 - 3:50:24] ▶
must be longer than that now. Uh, with Tom DeLonge. Yeah. Chris Mellon, Hal Puthoff,
[3:53:18 - 3:53:24] ▶
Or has that experience.
[4:00:17 - 4:00:18] ▶
And I think it was fairly traumatic. I think his.
[4:00:18 - 4:00:20] ▶
Lincoln is responsible for it.
[4:01:17 - 4:01:18] ▶
Yeah. He recommended it to me too. It's by Chase Brandon, who's this, that's a pseudonym. He's the
[4:01:18 - 4:01:24] ▶
people together? Of course, you're not going to want to disclose that any of that is happening if it
[4:02:13 - 4:02:18] ▶
is happening. And it, all of a sudden you, you, you move from this conversation of like,
[4:02:18 - 4:02:24] ▶
the UFO field acknowledged, at least in Congress, that we have to do something. We have to at least study it.
[4:10:12 - 4:10:18] ▶
And it's been blocked by groups who felt that, that God does not want us to do this. This is in
[4:10:18 - 4:10:22] ▶
in Colorado was training, you know, their people in religious studies, right? And a very sort of narrow
[4:11:18 - 4:11:25] ▶
as, you know, hardwired as we like to think. I think they're just general attitudes and the
[4:12:18 - 4:12:22] ▶
very useful. There is a new age possible, you know, because we see it in ourselves as individuals.
[4:17:56 - 4:18:03] ▶
We know we can make our individual understandings better, our individual lives better. It's just
[4:18:03 - 4:18:07] ▶
that guy next door who's a pain in the ass. Right. Totally. Well, you know that there's a
[4:18:07 - 4:18:11] ▶
Soren Kierkegaard quote that I think it's like, life is not a question to be answered, but a reality to
[4:18:11 - 4:18:17] ▶
be experienced. Right. And I feel like maybe the hubris of UFO quote unquote research or esoteric research.
[4:18:17 - 4:18:23] ▶
Yeah. Is that it is a question to be answered. Right. You're looking for some Archimedean point
[4:18:23 - 4:18:28] ▶
of revelation. It suddenly will know. You see the Ark of the Covenant and boom,
[4:18:29 - 4:18:32] ▶
you have all knowledge and it's inside your brain and you're, you're upgraded or whatever,
[4:18:32 - 4:18:37] ▶
and you have this, the special power. And that just, uh, I don't know, that seems like a sort of
[4:18:37 - 4:18:43] ▶
fallacy. Like it's, you think it is. It is a fallacy. Okay. I think we are in the process. We're
[4:18:43 - 4:18:49] ▶
in a constant process of discovery. Right. There is no one discovery to be made that's
[4:18:49 - 4:18:53] ▶
going to settle everything. So then what is the role of curiosity? Like if, if both you and I are
[4:18:53 - 4:18:59] ▶
taking these sort of quests where we're trying to find like all this, like interesting offbeat
[4:18:59 - 4:19:03] ▶
and the consciousness guys, let's call them for a better word, but that's not even it. Right. You
[4:20:12 - 4:20:18] ▶
take the nuts and bolts guys and you push them a little bit and they don't know what they're
[4:20:18 - 4:20:21] ▶
six, seven years in the 1970s until I think 79 or 1980. So for a long time, I worked for their
[4:23:09 - 4:23:18] ▶
International Division. And the International Division was located in Manhattan on Broadway,
[4:23:18 - 4:23:23] ▶
It's just, it's interesting. The thing is that, you know, I don't know how well.
[4:27:18 - 4:27:21] ▶
age of artificial intelligence, it's becoming harder and harder, but you can look at documents,
[4:31:15 - 4:31:18] ▶
look at the stuff that's released. That's open source. That's already there. Um, Harry Reed was
[4:31:18 - 4:31:25] ▶