possession of it and they're in possession of it too, then there is an agreement between countries
[0:00:12 - 0:00:17] ▶
that says we're not going to talk about this. It's the fight club. JFK was assassinated over
[0:00:17 - 0:00:23] ▶
E. Howard Hunt wrote at least three occult novels. Really? Yeah. And he lived on a place
[0:06:10 - 0:06:17] ▶
called Witch's Island. What? So I'm thinking, well, wait a minute here, right? Let me read
[0:06:17 - 0:06:23] ▶
Lyman Payne, and also married to Arthur Young. So she had all of these pedigrees all mixed in together.
[0:16:12 - 0:16:17] ▶
spiritual force. And there's a medium, a man from India, who then becomes kind of famous in sort of
[0:16:56 - 0:17:02] ▶
religious liberalism sort of circles, trying to... One world religion kind of thing, you know,
[0:17:02 - 0:17:07] ▶
trying to make peace with everybody and all of this kind of stuff that was going on at the time.
[0:17:07 - 0:17:11] ▶
And so he's conducting the seance and he's solving mathematical equations that
[0:17:12 - 0:17:18] ▶
Andrija Pujaric puts to him to see if he's really talking to a spiritual force.
[0:17:18 - 0:17:23] ▶
And this guy is answering correctly, solving mathematical equations.
[0:17:23 - 0:17:26] ▶
So then, and this guy evidently materializes out of the clear blue sky, little threads,
[0:17:26 - 0:17:33] ▶
one for each of the members of this group. They're supposed to wrap around their wrist,
[0:17:33 - 0:17:38] ▶
makes them Brahmins, like actual Brahmins in the Indian sense. But they're Brahmins assigned to this
[0:17:38 - 0:17:44] ▶
exalted rank, this elite status by these nine forces that are spinning somehow above them,
[0:17:44 - 0:17:50] ▶
which later become identified as residents of a UFO in low Earth orbit. The same one that is later
[0:17:50 - 0:17:58] ▶
then being contacted by Uri Geller, who was then discovered by Buharic, brought to the United States
[0:17:58 - 0:18:04] ▶
So we know that there was a big discussion about this going on. So how is it that this happens?
[0:20:11 - 0:20:17] ▶
How is it right that this bunch of people having a seance in Maine in 1952
[0:20:17 - 0:20:24] ▶
I'm going through the, the Warren Commission reports, the, all this, I mean, the entire
[0:21:17 - 0:21:21] ▶
Fair Play for Cuba leaflets. Yeah.
[0:23:15 - 0:23:17] ▶
Right. So it was all in this one office, David Ferry, Jack Martin, all these psychos were in this
[0:23:17 - 0:23:22] ▶
see in all the rest of it? I think that there's a lot of weirdness around that meeting. Uh, Kenneth
[0:28:11 - 0:28:17] ▶
Arnold was, did not have a reservation in any hotel. He just kind of showed up because Crisman
[0:28:17 - 0:28:21] ▶
in his persona as a priest and bishop the rest of his life. So the photographs I have of him in the 1970s,
[0:35:10 - 0:35:17] ▶
years after the Kennedy assassination stuff that was going on in New Orleans. And he's in the, in the,
[0:35:17 - 0:35:23] ▶
And a lot of people just said, no, screw this. We're not going to do it.
[0:36:17 - 0:36:20] ▶
veils. We have crosses and stuff and, you know, and we look genuine, right? I mean, for two 17 year
[0:40:41 - 0:40:47] ▶
we'll get you in something like that. So we say, okay, cool. We're two 17 year olds.
[0:42:03 - 0:42:07] ▶
right? Because we needed, we were two 17 year olds, you know, my friend turned 18 that month. So we needed
[0:47:20 - 0:47:27] ▶
It doesn't make any sense. I was 17. How the hell did we wind up in that position?
[0:49:36 - 0:49:40] ▶
That's why he called people back to have them vetted. Hoover himself would approve or disapprove his
[0:55:11 - 0:55:17] ▶
selection of priests and bishops. So this was obviously for what reason, right? And it'd be for
[0:55:17 - 0:55:24] ▶
as against Biafra. This was a ploy in the Civil War. The Civil War was raging when we did this.
[0:57:11 - 0:57:17] ▶
And we put him back on the plane the next day. He goes back to Nigeria. God knows what happened to
[0:57:17 - 0:57:21] ▶
watched the sorcerer and now they're doing the same thing and they cannot control it. It goes out of
[1:04:13 - 1:04:17] ▶
control completely. So the sorcerer has to come in and fix it. Right. So this is, this is the problem
[1:04:17 - 1:04:23] ▶
the highest levels of government and their interest in the topics of non-human intelligence.
[1:13:10 - 1:13:17] ▶
Tom contacted me, I think much the way you, you know, um, just out of the clear blue sky.
[1:13:17 - 1:13:23] ▶
said, can you throw it out? So I said, okay, I'll talk. I'll keep on going. You know, what can I riff
[1:16:57 - 1:17:03] ▶
on what I just said? And I spin that out to that statement and suddenly he gets a standing ovation.
[1:17:03 - 1:17:07] ▶
Right. I'm thinking, holy crap, what kind of a crew in my ear with? I'm surrounded by all these people
[1:17:08 - 1:17:14] ▶
who thought this was, this was the point I'm talking about the Kennedy assassination, you know, Hoover and,
[1:17:14 - 1:17:19] ▶
you know, E. Howard Hunt and all these guys and Fred Crisman and Guy Bannister. And the part they
[1:17:19 - 1:17:24] ▶
liked was the classified part. Right. So anyway, that was, that got carried on a lot of YouTube
[1:17:24 - 1:17:30] ▶
channels. Suddenly that was all over the place. Right. That one particular presentation got a lot of
[1:17:30 - 1:17:35] ▶
views, hundreds of thousands of views when it first came out. So I think that might've been the trigger
[1:17:35 - 1:17:41] ▶
because nobody ever associated me with the UFO phenomenon before. I had written about it in,
[1:17:41 - 1:17:47] ▶
in, uh, secret machines. Yeah. Excuse me. Sinister forces. Yep.
[1:17:47 - 1:17:51] ▶
Too many books getting confused, but in, uh, sinister forces, there's just one chapter on,
[1:17:51 - 1:17:57] ▶
was one chapter on the assassination with all these weird guys. Yeah. And then in a later volume
[1:17:57 - 1:18:01] ▶
you know, we began this long conversation on email, uh, on, on this subject also.
[1:18:12 - 1:18:17] ▶
What do you think they meant when they said, Hey, come speak about the secret space program? Because
[1:18:17 - 1:18:23] ▶
I was initially invited long ago to replace somebody, I think. And then I was invited to replace
[1:20:11 - 1:20:17] ▶
Jim Mars, who was sick that year and who passed away that year. He was a good friend.
[1:20:17 - 1:20:21] ▶
And The Cloud That Lifted is about the assassination of a political leader,
[1:24:17 - 1:24:21] ▶
getting shot in the ear, in the ear that he was shot in.
[1:26:13 - 1:26:17] ▶
like pre-exists and you're sort of like, you know, figuring that out, figuring out what's
[1:27:12 - 1:27:17] ▶
happening. You're getting some download or is it some sort of predictive programming where you are
[1:27:17 - 1:27:21] ▶
supplies, you had weapons because this was the beginning of the war. And these, these stone age
[1:39:12 - 1:39:17] ▶
tribes are looking at this thing and they're saying, God damn, we don't know that this, that you could
[1:39:17 - 1:39:22] ▶
to stare at the night sky and chart those stars?
[1:43:12 - 1:43:17] ▶
It's amazing. And I mean, all the Graham Hancock, Robert Shock stuff, like the most interesting part
[1:43:17 - 1:43:24] ▶
right? For the humans. He was giving fire to the humans. Humans didn't have fire. They were
[1:49:12 - 1:49:17] ▶
freezing their asses off. Prometheus came down and said, here's fire, get warm, you know? And the
[1:49:17 - 1:49:21] ▶
So I got breakfast with Tom DeLonge once, who I love, by the way. I think he's the best.
[1:50:11 - 1:50:17] ▶
Yeah. And he actually referenced Gnostic thought at the time. He was talking about the archons,
[1:50:17 - 1:50:23] ▶
way. So, so you think, wow, so there's a, there's a, there's a way out, but it's impossible to talk about,
[1:54:11 - 1:54:17] ▶
but you do talk about it because you write, you wrote a book about it, you know, Stairway to Heaven.
[1:54:17 - 1:54:21] ▶
writing about this? All these books on Nazi occultism and nobody's looking at the real documents,
[1:57:12 - 1:57:17] ▶
the, the, the, the original papers. Didn't they go to Mount Kailash looking for some underground
[1:57:17 - 1:57:21] ▶
humans or whatever. Do you think there was any sort of Nordic Nazi relationship?
[2:03:17 - 2:03:23] ▶
an investigation as to Nazi gold and what happened to the Nazi gold that was missing, they found just
[2:13:09 - 2:13:17] ▶
within a few months because they didn't have a lot of financing to continue this for a long time.
[2:13:17 - 2:13:21] ▶
Russia, or the United States, and have it based here in Jakarta.
[2:14:14 - 2:14:17] ▶
Wow! So, is the implication that Roswell was Horton Brothers' technology that might have gotten into
[2:14:17 - 2:14:27] ▶
definitely not human. And so those two things just don't line up or comport at all. Obviously,
[2:16:58 - 2:17:04] ▶
there's disinformation somewhere. Somewhere. Yeah. And so your, but your bet would be the disinfo
[2:17:04 - 2:17:09] ▶
would be on the kind of NHI alien front and that this might be prosaic human technology.
[2:17:09 - 2:17:13] ▶
I think, yeah, I think it's a possibility that what crashed in Roswell was, was human
[2:17:14 - 2:17:18] ▶
technology prosaic. I'm not sure. Yeah, sure. Exotic human. Exotic human.
[2:17:18 - 2:17:22] ▶
But remember when you're talking about Roswell and you're talking about Wright-Patterson,
[2:17:23 - 2:17:28] ▶
you're talking about all the Nazi scientists, uh, Walter Dornberger from Peenemunde, his first
[2:17:28 - 2:17:35] ▶
posting was to Wright-Patterson. He was in Wright-Patterson when the Roswell debris was brought,
[2:17:35 - 2:17:41] ▶
was brought in by trains. So wild. So he was there. And so, okay.
[2:17:41 - 2:17:45] ▶
Who else would you have wanted to look at that? And he was head of, I think, a, a four V2
[2:17:45 - 2:17:50] ▶
program in, in Nazi Germany. Yeah. He ran Peenemunde. He ran Peenemunde. He was, uh,
[2:17:50 - 2:17:54] ▶
the boss of, uh, what's his name? Wernher von Braun. Wernher von Braun. Yeah.
[2:17:54 - 2:17:58] ▶
That's okay. Wow. So he was at Oberammergau and yeah, it's interesting, you know? And, and I think
[2:17:58 - 2:18:04] ▶
right? Yeah. And we put them in charge. The whole thing was just to me mind boggling that that would
[2:20:12 - 2:20:17] ▶
happen that way, you know, but it just did. Right. So mind boggling. And it doesn't make a lot of sense,
[2:20:17 - 2:20:23] ▶
our defenders or our allies. They were just there being paid and saved from going to the Soviet Union.
[2:23:11 - 2:23:17] ▶
So the amount of trust we placed in these people, they didn't deserve what we did, right? They didn't
[2:23:17 - 2:23:24] ▶
anti-communist. Let's not muddy the waters. And the guy says, I can do both, right? I can be
[2:29:13 - 2:29:17] ▶
anti-communist and anti-Nazi. I can do both things. We can do both things as a country.
[2:29:17 - 2:29:22] ▶
when they said that the accusations against him could not have happened because of a number of
[2:38:13 - 2:38:17] ▶
things. What were the accusations?
[2:38:17 - 2:38:18] ▶
in paranormal anything. He didn't believe in UFOs, right? This guy was a realist, a hundred percent
[2:39:10 - 2:39:17] ▶
realist in what he did. He believed in the philosophies behind a lot of these things.
[2:39:17 - 2:39:21] ▶
So this was something where you change the minds, the hearts and minds of people as
[2:40:17 - 2:40:21] ▶
The UFO phenomenon could be one. Do you think it's used in that capacity? Oh, it has been. We know that.
[2:41:12 - 2:41:17] ▶
Richard Doty did it. Uh-huh. Well, yeah. So he was obviously kind of psyoping and messing with
[2:41:17 - 2:41:23] ▶
rotor blades. I hear nothing. So I opened the car door and I stand up and look at it. I'm looking at a
[2:56:12 - 2:56:17] ▶
triangle with the lights and it's just sitting there and it's totally quiet. Not a sound,
[2:56:17 - 2:56:24] ▶
Well, we, we had, as an example, I made some noise about this on Substack. I think it was a year or
[2:59:12 - 2:59:17] ▶
two ago and the wrestling community got really freaked out. You know, the worldwide wrestling
[2:59:17 - 2:59:23] ▶
from the underworld. This Cthulhu that they're talking about in the book is the man from the underworld.
[3:16:56 - 3:17:01] ▶
And then, so that sent us off on other wild goose chases. Like Kutu is the underworld. And we found
[3:17:01 - 3:17:07] ▶
out there is a place. It's, I mean, the Sumeriologists would know. It was called Kuta or Kutu in Sumerian or
[3:17:07 - 3:17:13] ▶
Babylonian. And it was a place that was supposed to be the entrance to the underworld. It exists today,
[3:17:13 - 3:17:18] ▶
today in Iraq. It's south of Baghdad, south east of Baghdad. And it's the place where Abraham is said to
[3:17:19 - 3:17:27] ▶
be buried. Tell Ibrahim is there. And if you look at pictures of it now, it's just a big empty wasteland.
[3:17:27 - 3:17:34] ▶
Nothing is built there. But that's supposed to be the entrance to the underworld.
[3:17:34 - 3:17:37] ▶
So things started to make sense later.
[3:17:39 - 3:17:42] ▶
Right? And they found an Arabic rendering in the Quran of a being called Al-Khadool, which is supposed to be
[3:17:42 - 3:17:48] ▶
a kind of quality of anti-something. It's like an adversary name. Right? So there's like things
[3:17:49 - 3:17:57] ▶
started to make sense that didn't make sense back in 1975. But with the passage of time and, you know,
[3:17:57 - 3:18:03] ▶
enthusiasms as much. And he wants to get his money back as quickly as possible to finance this thing.
[3:23:11 - 3:23:17] ▶
So they come up with a scheme, which I didn't know existed. It's called barter space. And in
[3:23:17 - 3:23:24] ▶
Right. I think they were interested since the beginning,
[3:26:15 - 3:26:17] ▶
but what's the connection? How is that?
[3:26:17 - 3:26:19] ▶
escapes me, but it's in my books, from this institute in Montreal to go and investigate this guy, just talk to him.
[3:29:10 - 3:29:17] ▶
Ewan Cameron, maybe? Or no?
[3:29:17 - 3:29:19] ▶
Asclepius. Asclepius. See, I'm talking too long and I'm starting to stumble over my own words.
[3:38:10 - 3:38:17] ▶
Anyway, the God of medicine. Yes. The, the, the twin serpents around a central staff,
[3:38:17 - 3:38:21] ▶
send, they're going to dox me. Okay. Um, I can say this, I can say that at the time the Bible was
[3:41:12 - 3:41:17] ▶
I would recommend it for most people just being cool and getting through life as peacefully as you
[3:45:17 - 3:45:22] ▶
When you can't get a straight answer on something, it opens up the field to anybody who has an
[3:47:11 - 3:47:17] ▶
imaginary answer. Right. Right. When you don't have a real answer, something you can agree on,
[3:47:17 - 3:47:22] ▶
was organic material on it, it was non-human biologicals. Ah, whoa. So like any sort of
[3:50:10 - 3:50:17] ▶
real. I mean, whoever went to the work involved to make them look real as, as this, they've been
[3:51:10 - 3:51:17] ▶
criticized by different people. And then later on, not, not, not so much. I said, I've looked at them.
[3:51:17 - 3:51:22] ▶
throw everybody off. Totally. It's hard. That's the hoax. Right.
[3:52:14 - 3:52:17] ▶
So, so do you, do you feel like you came out of your interactions with some of these people?
[3:52:17 - 3:52:21] ▶
I had a meeting here in Austin. Okay. Um, a couple of years ago. Well,
[3:53:13 - 3:53:17] ▶
We asked about it. They all got silent. They suddenly all stopped talking.
[3:55:17 - 3:55:22] ▶
because they smoke dope when they were 17, maybe, and can't get the clearance, right?
[3:58:27 - 3:58:31] ▶
The, the, the blind men touching the elephant, I think is really good analogy, touching different
[3:59:12 - 3:59:17] ▶
parts of an elephant and their left hand's not talking to the right. It's not coordinated.
[3:59:17 - 3:59:21] ▶
ranking member of CIA is abducted by an alien. Yeah.
[4:00:13 - 4:00:17] ▶
Or has that experience.
[4:00:17 - 4:00:18] ▶
Lincoln is responsible for it.
[4:01:17 - 4:01:18] ▶
there are, you know, thinkers, historical religious thinkers, um, like, you know, Lincoln likes to bring up
[4:06:11 - 4:06:17] ▶
Iamblichus, you know, there's some others with, you know, St. Thomas Aquinas with taxonomies,
[4:06:17 - 4:06:21] ▶
Calling them angels might've been a bit of a misnomer. The seven ranks of angels came later,
[4:07:12 - 4:07:17] ▶
seraphim, cherubim, et cetera, et cetera, angels, archangels, and all the rest. That's like a later
[4:07:17 - 4:07:22] ▶
of the scientific one. I was appalled a couple of years ago to hear how the Air Force Academy
[4:11:11 - 4:11:17] ▶
So there's a whole story there, I suppose. But from my point of view, I don't think these groups are as,
[4:12:12 - 4:12:17] ▶
versions of Prometheus, you're the, even the story of Faust or whatever, usually blows up on the person
[4:13:12 - 4:13:17] ▶
going for the forbidden knowledge. And so I struggle with it because obviously per this show, I'm
[4:13:17 - 4:13:23] ▶
bad. And I do, I kind of believe in the Faust version of all of this stuff. So where does that
[4:14:11 - 4:14:17] ▶
leave us? Well, I, I, I watched some of the Giorgiani episode because I was, you know, I know about
[4:14:17 - 4:14:23] ▶
the traditionalists don't have an answer to that fundamental question.
[4:16:57 - 4:17:00] ▶
And not everybody would consider those ages golden ages. There are a lot of people who
[4:17:01 - 4:17:06] ▶
suffered under those regimes because these were regimes for elitists. These were elite regimes.
[4:17:06 - 4:17:11] ▶
They did well, right. When everybody else suffered. And so I don't want to go back to any of those golden
[4:17:11 - 4:17:17] ▶
ages. I think that the knowledge that they had, that we're always mooning about and saying how great
[4:17:17 - 4:17:22] ▶
it was, we already have it. It's all around us. We've got it in our hands. We don't know how to use it.
[4:17:22 - 4:17:27] ▶
We don't know how to look at it. You know, we're, we're too divided in so many different ways, you
[4:17:27 - 4:17:31] ▶
know, culturally, academically, linguistically, even politically, certainly all of these things
[4:17:31 - 4:17:36] ▶
are there to make everything very messy, but the knowledge is there. It's never gone away. It's,
[4:17:36 - 4:17:41] ▶
it's always been there. It's always been accessible. I don't want to go to a golden age. I want to go
[4:17:41 - 4:17:45] ▶
towards a golden age if possible. Right. I think that is possible, but I think it's going to take some
[4:17:45 - 4:17:50] ▶
work and it's going to take individuals coming to terms with the fact that all of these ideologies are not
[4:17:50 - 4:17:56] ▶
very useful. There is a new age possible, you know, because we see it in ourselves as individuals.
[4:17:56 - 4:18:03] ▶
Soren Kierkegaard quote that I think it's like, life is not a question to be answered, but a reality to
[4:18:11 - 4:18:17] ▶
be experienced. Right. And I feel like maybe the hubris of UFO quote unquote research or esoteric research.
[4:18:17 - 4:18:23] ▶
are operating over time, right? And a lot of it had to do with the Field Engineering Services,
[4:24:13 - 4:24:17] ▶
because it came out that we were training troops in Saudi Arabia. What the hell was Bendix Field
[4:24:17 - 4:24:22] ▶
I don't know if he was Area 51 while I was at Bendix or not. I left Bendix in 79, I think. So I don't
[4:25:10 - 4:25:17] ▶
know if he was at Bendix or if he had that ID in the eighties. If he did that after. It must have been
[4:25:17 - 4:25:22] ▶
we have 15 crash craft in our possession. Like he's literally gave like a number.
[4:27:12 - 4:27:17] ▶